Gundam SEED Freedom

Couples and Throuples Edition

FREEDOM Theme Song with MV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3Y<wbr>fiVGSbus

Sarigiwa no Romantics Ending Song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtx<wbr>8NNYy8Ao

Reborn Supporting Song with MV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5U<wbr>lfsKouZ8

BOUKYOU Insert Song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D39<wbr>Q5K4j9UA

Escape for Two Short Story
https://www.zeonic-republic.net/tra<wbr>nslation/SEEDFREEDOMnovellaA.pdf

Moonlight Valkyrie Short Story:
https://www.zeonic-republic.net/tra<wbr>nslation/SEEDFREEDOMnovellaB.pdf

SEED Freedom Novelization Volume 1 (Chapters 1-3)
https://zeonic-republic.net/transla<wbr>tion/seedfreedom_volume01.pdf

SEED Freedom Novelization Volume 2 (Chapters 4-6)
https://zeonic-republic.net/transla<wbr>tion/seedfreedom_volume02.pdf

>>22628997
So, Agnes was let off the hook after all? That's not surprising.

>>22628997
>Shinn wants her
>Hilda wants her
>Now Agnes even wants her

Is Lunamaria the new Harem Queen of SEED?

>>22629011
I guess she gets it from Athrun. Ironic, considering she used to be part of his harem.

>>22628997
Luna = Ange
Shinn = Tusk
Agnes = Hilda

This means she is first after all, right?

>>22628997
Looks like Kira and Lacus landed next to the rebuilt beach orphanage, had sex nearby, and possibly ran to the orphanage to grab some clothes, then finally got back to picking up and folding their pilot suits, watching the moon rise and getting horny again.

The french sub of the movie (which the potential dub will be based on) is absolutely soulful compared to the shitty english dub, it was made by a giant gundam fan so that's a plus.

>>22629058
yes after 100 eps of SEED series and a move it turns out she is actually his osananajimi
well played Kantoku

>>22629086
Kantoku once said in theater event that the spot they landed is around the area of his parents, and his mom spent 2-3 days and found them and told them to stop fooling around dust off the sand and get inside.
so they fooled around (fuxked around) for 2 nights maybe, man thats lots of stress that they need to fool around (fuxk around) naked for 2 nights

>>22629121
How popular is Gundam in France?

>>22629318
>two days and two nights

Tusk and Ange laugh at these amateurs.

>>22628997
>no orphee postcard
Lol
Lmao even

>>22629369
You can't really expect a loser who died a virgin will get anything like this, inb4 Orphee and Ingrid somehow have much younger clones so Kira and Lacus find them so they could adopt them and raise them right.

>kira going to god to pray
lmao i can't fuck i wanna watch the movie again already

>>22629320
Not that much but SEED and DESTINY are the most popular entries by far, they used to air on TV back then.
>>22629314
Doesn't use Dulindal or piss poor translations (the only modified name is Athrun being named Asran , and that's due to keeping the name of the old french dub/sub of 20 years ago), instead of keeping all literal but also feeling soulless, they did a few minor changes to keep dialogues a lot more natural while also respecting greatly the original intentions and text (so an actual good localization). The translator did a long thread on Twitter explaining all his choices (he has being a big gundam fan for more than 20 years now).
They even changed what the Turn A Haro said because the reference couldn't work anymore in French (it's a joke about the seyuu who also voice Gym), so they changed it to the Haro saying "MOONLIGHT!" to keep the Turn A reference.

>>22629096
That lesbian rape commander that died early on

I rewatched the scene a bit. Prior to the DUPE particles mirage, the four Black Knights are still formidable as they managed to dodge most of Shinn's strikes and might have even destroyed Shinn's shield.

With their minds linked for the synchro attack, once the orange one died, the other three just froze in despair sharing their dead comrade's state of mind. Hilda and Shinn could have left the battlefield and the 3 guys would have taken at least 5 minutes to regain composure.

I was initially disappointed that the three guys did not fight back, but the in universe explanation of them being mind linked meant that one dead meant all dead instantaneously.

There's a camrip of the movie floating around, and it's rough with some missing scenes in there, on top of the usual camrip annoyances.

>>22629655
My bad, Shinn never lost the shield.

>>22629455
Well who else would he go to for guidance, Jor-El?

>>22629492
Athrun is just Aslan with retarded spelling though, same as Clotho (Kuroto), Tolle (Toru) etc.

>>22629786
Yeah they can't really do anything to him. Shinn just stalemates them 4 on 1 with minor coverfire from Hilda until he cranks up the after images and then slaughters them all. Really the the Black Knights aren't shit, they won their first fight because they just suddenly turned on Compass when they were trying to figure out what just happened with Kira, and they had stronger suits while Compass had mostly beam weapons. Once they were actually prepared to fight them in their rematch they were nothing.

watching the camrip I notice the femto armor can tank the strike freedom's chest cannon.

>>22629005
She is Zaft MSGK. Earthian pug noses like Shinn cannot compete.

There's an issue with the whole Freedom hijack thing. Before Freedom got shot down, Compass knew Foundation had beam absorbing armor and their own version of Wings of Light. So why didn't Compass develop weapons and technology to counter Foundation suits? Why is Kira so surprised at their Wings of Light in the movie? The Flashback shows Foundation already had it. This should not be new to Kira.

Why did Compass build or a bunch of new suits (Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice) that have almost no counters to Foundation suits? This is very unlike Lacus and Terminal. They immediately plan well in advance like they did in Seed and Destiny.

>>22630227
Bureaucracy, anon
They wouldn't tell Kira or the engineers unless they thought those people needed to know that info

>>22630227
I'm gonna need you to get all the way off my back about Comps not knowing about the femcel anti beam armor

>>22629655
Even if they fought back it wouldn't have mattered. Shinn was surgically taking them apart one by one, even the red haired dude who shot down the hijacked freedom lost an arm almost immediately. I guess Foundation's Freedom killer is nothing special....

>>22630329
I thought Agnes was Foundation's Freedom Killer.

>>22630329
>>22630335
Shouldn't that still be Shura since he did most of the work?

>>22630708
Why did you not go see it in theaters, anon?

are you guys seriously asking where the camrip is like come on its 2024 if you dont know the sites you're fucking stupid

>>22630704
>jobs to porn
Nothing special....

>>22630766
None of my local theatres were showing it

>>22630781
says the guy who does not know where it is

What's the timestamp for the Freedom hijacking story?

>>22629405
Nope, Kira and Lacus's offspring will be the next Forbidden Child of Cosmic Era, just like them. Kira is the Ultimate Coordinator, while Lacus is the First/Last Accord, and should the truth of their biologies be revealed, the whole world would hunt them down.

>>22631455
>Hoshi
Never fucking smiles ever.
>Ishida
High expectations asian father meme
>Tanaka
Does like a drag performer who cannot pass.
>Suzuken
Shit-eating grin of the man who knows he won.

>>22631464
TM Revolution looks like he's having the time of his life as well.

>>22631466
>I didn't have a cameo as some token character who dies this time. Victory!

>>22631455
>>22631464
Why does this man never smile. At least Koyasu has an excuse

>>22631489
Maybe he has Koyasu's excuse.

>>22631490
Koyasu has fucked up teeth, hence why most pictures of him have his jaw clenched tight like he's ready to murder you. Hoshi's teeth seem alright

>>22631466
Veniers and plastic surgery. Yikes.

>>22629492
If you have to justify your localizations then clearly you didn't do a good job.

>>22631499
Why does his hairline recede faster than his father?

>>22631489
If you watched the bandai promo he actually smiles a lot. Just hates being photographed maybe.

>>22631447
Going by story parallels, that means Seed 4's protagonist would homage <s>Afranche Char</s>

>>22628997
So is agnes trying to steal lunamaria or shinn

>>22631499
THIS is what Cagalli simps look like?

>>22631499
>Muh forehead
Rossiu did it 10x better.

When in the movie do they mention the freedom hijacking?

>>22629058
Lacusfags coping hard with the fact that Kira is Flays used goods. If Lacus ever gets in bed with Kira he will only please her with the experience he had with Flay. Permanently cucked.

>>22631700
She's suggesting a threesome to Luna, who's at a loss for words while Shinn is screaming at the top of his lungs: "say yes; oh my fucking god, say YES" while the guys in the background are clapping and cheering for him and Hilda is remaining knowingly quiet.

>>22631970
Doesn't he also have a massive hateboner for Trigger and CLAMP or am I thinking about someone else?

>>22632016
No, that's a different guy that is better left unmentioned here.

I kind of wish something like this happened in Freedom.<br>https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/1<wbr>18521531

>>22628997
more like gundam BREED
or gundam SEED in her BELLY

>>22632061
I just saw the camrip, the movie is so fast paced and has so many cuts I won't be surprised if a scene like this actually gets added in the Blu-Ray.

>>22631932
Kira is actually grown up now why do you get stuck 4 years ago, Flay could never feel adult Kira and Kira doesn't remember her anymore so sorry then

>>22632061
>>22632070
I don't think so Fukuda already stated that Shin and Cagalli moment is not important as it is just the same with Andy and Kira, Shinn: Sorry I almost kill or talk shit about you
Cagalli: it is okay it is a war

>>22629655
>But the in universe explanation of them being mind linked meant that one dead meant all dead instantaneously.
>Being this fragile that they couldn't force eject the link
lol, lmao even. Are there any other examples of this happening in /m/ or otherwise?

How would you rank the SEED series so far? I haven't read Astray yet (and shit's kinda confusing to get into)
but
>1. SEED
>2. FREEDOM
>3. Destiny

idk if I can even put stargazer in here since it's like what? 30 minutes of screentime and it's more a supplementary worldbuilding material than an actual gundam story.

>>22632353
1. Freedom
2. Cross Ange
3. Destiny
4. SEED

>>22632125
I still wish there was some interaction since Freedom didn't have any. But I guess Fukuda felt it wasn't necessary since the movie isn't about them.

>>22632353
They're all about the same for me personally. The first 2/3rds of SEED are overall boring, with the highlights being the tension between two childhood friends, Kira and Athrun, fighting each other. The show didn't overall pick up for me until the Archangel abandons the Earth Federation and the heroes form the their third side. SEED was at its best when it was being unadulterated fairy tale where the heroes and princesses really do save the world with the power of friendship and all of that good stuff. Destiny I liked as a tragedy, about the moral downfall of the Mineva crew who made lots of bad decisions and followed an evil man. Freedom was whatever plot wise. Too much talking and the show was too short to get me invested in the plot.

>>22632560
The only thing I detest more than your stupid nicknames and goose-chasing is that worthless fucking cunt. My hatred against her is unbelievable.
At least she's mostly harmless and out of the way of things in FREEDOM, but still.

>>22632353
I couldn't just rank them like that

>SEED
Pretty by the book show. It's the first gundam with early 00s melodrama with all the sappy romance song and shit. I thought it was 10 episodes too long, it was hype when orb blew up and they go to space, then they just do random irrelevant shit until the plot kicks into high gear again when both sides went on an all out war.

>Destiny
It has an amazing premise. I was excited to see how athrun deals with this new war as a veteran.... and he's still retarded. Durandal is too cartoonishly evil, which is par the course for SEED but he's not presented that way originally until they have to end the show with kira and lacus being morally superior.

>Freedom
This is literally Cross Ange with no swearing

>>22632421
>SEED was at its best when it was being unadulterated fairy tale where the heroes and princesses really do save the world with the power of friendship and all of that good stuff.
This bullshit is yours as well?

>>22632665
It sounds like your mad because there is truth in what was said...

I saw the screening in movie theaters, and there are some things that have been bothering me about the movie. I had to wait some days to think about it while working, but here are my thoughts:

1. I don't know how to explain it, but the CGI and animation is too... "floaty". There's no 'impact' mobile suits get hit. Things get sliced like they are soft jello. Zero resistance or slowdown as the blade cuts through them. Then damaged parts float in the air way too long. Almost like they are fighting under water. The physics are really here weird.

2. Does Fukuda hate the Archangel or something? He gave it a pretty vicious death. It went down badly. I thought it had battleship grade armor, and special anti-beam coating and stuff? Why are the black knight beams slicing through it like butter? Why do none of Archangels weapons harm Black Knights? I recall that Blitz Gundam stood right next to the armor in the original show, and just kept shooting over and over and the armor took it like a champ.

3. Why are the Destroy Gundams so unbelievably weak in the movie? They were a big awful joke.

4. What is this Freedom incident?

5. What is the deal with the Black Knight suits and Femto-tech armor? It ignores beams AND physical rounds? How come they can ignore physical attacks in one part of the movie, and laugh at it. But then the Black Knights get killed by those same beams and railguns weapons later in the movie? Same with beams. They absorb big beam cannon blasts at point blank then die to beams later

6. Why didn't Murrue evacuate with the rest of the bridge staff? Was the elevator full? Why just sit there? How did Murrue survive?

7. So do beam shields mean nothing now? Beam sabers cut through them?

8. If Compass already knew about the Black Knights Fempto tech armor from the flashback then why is everyone surprised by their armor technology during the battle? Why are they surprised at their after images? Compass should know about them right?

Sorry I'm confused.

>>22632879
The movie felt went too fast with all these events. I feel like it would have been better as like a 12 episode OVA? Maybe 18 episodes. It needed more time with setup.

>>22632879
>Why are destroy gundams so weak
The blue cosmos probably don't have too much money, look at how their army mostly consist of regular daggers.

>What is the freedom incident
It was explained in the novel, but its purpose is just to tell you they've ran into each other prior to the movie

>Why didnt murrue evacuate
Something something "the captain has to stay until everyone evacuates" I'm surprised you never heard of this.

>How did murrue survive
Same way kira survived point blank mobile suit explosion

>tech questions
lol
I doubt fukuda even thought about them. He probably just let the bandai rep wrote it.

>>22632881
It's fine until they get to the foundation country and lacus went through multiple ntr events in less than 12 hours

Do you think there will be more SEED in the future? I feel like theyre reaching the end of the line as Kira and co. grow older.
The series will lose some of its appeal if the characters have to become responsible and level headed adults as they grow up, seem weird if they keep acting like teenagers into their twenties, or be rejected by japanese fans who wont tolerate the original SEED crew being switched out.
Can you imagine a Zeta Gundam or CCA counterpart to SEED? I cant without many fans getting pissed off.

>>22632879
>1.
2024 animation. Also they wanted to damage the suits more
>2.
The archangel is quite dated despite it only being 4 years since it launched. It would not have withstood all the beams fired at it like the compass battleship did
>3.
Destroy has always been shit. Remember that Shin (in impulse, and without being in seed mode) could close in on stella's destroy and slash at its cockpit. Essentially would have solo-ed her if neo didn't butt in. Of course, kira flying around like an idiot that fight probably made the destroy seem stronger than it was
>4. What is this Freedom incident?
Some incident which agnes' fuckbuddy gundamjacked the rising Freedom Gundam when it was being delivered to compass. The story is not fully released yet
>5.
Space magic. Also they absorb beam cannon blasts but melee beams (from Excalibur) are apparently different things
>6.
The elevator was full, don't think too much about it
>7. So do beam shields mean nothing now? Beam sabers cut through them?
Any beam saber attached to a physical weapon (like Excalibur and Legend's Melee Beam DRAGOONS) could always pierce beam shields, even in destiny
>8.
Probably didn't expect them to already incorporate them into mobile suits

>>22633040
We know we are getting an OVA set before Freedom.

I think SEED and its characters are too popular to just end after such a big success in theatres but after the 18 years wait and the "canonisation" of the couples I don't think someone like Fukuda is good enough to make new content without losing part of the fanbase: the Freedom movie is a mess full of retcons and nothing is explained, Mendel stuff is just glossed over and Fukuda insists on making up explanations in live events just to contradict himself (or the novel which he supposedly helped write).

I really think a director who's more focused on the characters and the settings over super robot stuff works better with SEED (I have nothing again Super Robot shows).

>>22633040
>Zeta Gundam counterpart to SEED
It's called SEED Destiny and you know how that turned out.

>>22633053
>I really think a director who's more focused on the characters and the settings over super robot stuff works better with SEED (I have nothing again Super Robot shows).
Are you saying freedom focuses on the robot stuff when everything is "it just works"-tier bullshit? There's not much fighting either compared to, say, gridman universe where half the runtime is a kaiju fight.

>>22632879
>Does Fukuda hate the Archangel or something? He gave it a pretty vicious death.

Fukuda likes big flashy naval looking ships ala his fetish for Mighty Jack. AA's White Base esque design was probably something mandated to him that he was happy to get rid of. He mentioned one of his goals with the film was to get rid of the AA and turn the page to a newer ship. AA should have lasted better than it did, especially since it seems to have gotten overhauled since Destiny but Fukuda probably didn't fucking care. He just wanted his big ugly ass Millenium

>>22633047
>The archangel is quite dated despite it only being 4 years since it launched. It would not have withstood all the beams fired at it like the compass battleship did
To be fair, the Eternal and Kusanagi were in the movie and fought well against Black knight forces. So Archangel shouldn't be helpless. Archangel seemed to have refits too. So it's destruction was odd.

>>22633552
I do agree with anon that Archangel's death felt mean-spirited. It was embarrassingly taken down, shot up even more, slammed with countless missiles, and then hit with a nuke for good measure. It's like watching someone get shot in both knees with a Sniper rifle, stabbed with a knife over and over again, get hit with several exploding grenades, then shot of some more with a machine gun, then set on fire with gasoline, and then a random hobo and dog pees on the charred corpse as a final disrespect. Fukuda did not want the Archangel to come back or anyone ask if it could be repaired.

>>22633552
>>22633800
The destruction of the Archangel ends up doing a good job of making it feel like Compass's darkest hour, which is what the scene's shooting for. Angel Down only really has the last stab as a significant loss for Kira, he's doing fine until then, and the Archangel is clearly fine. This time Kira gets ripped to pieces, the Archangel gets demolished, there's multiple nukes going off, everyone who survives does so by the skin of their teeth. Ultraviolence is one of the areas that CE excels in compared to other AUs, it was nice to see them apply that to the protagonists for a change and them really get fucked up.

>>22633821
>everyone who survives does so by the skin of their teeth. Ultraviolence is one of the areas that CE excels in compared to other AUs, it was nice to see them apply that to the protagonists for a change and them really get fucked up.
Except nobody gets killed (other than the two guys from the DOM trio) and there are no serious injuries anywhere. They even have a cut with Meyrin showing that everyone from the Archangel is very much alive.

>>22633821
Wouldn't it make more sense to blow up the Eternal then? Its more symbolic.

>>22633873
Perhaps, but there are like a dozen reasons why that would've been impractical.

I want to say the Black Knights has a pretty dumb plan.

>Threaten the world with Requiem
>Anyone who moves their ships gets lasered
>All the world Militaries say screw that, and all charge at Black Knights at the same time
>Requiem can't recharge fast enough to laser them all
>Black Knights fleet can't handle huge military of entire world.
>Get Stomped.
>The End.

What were they thinking? You would think they would have more Trump cards than just a big laser and like 8 elite pilots. They don't have any nukes? Maybe they should have fixed Neo Genesis too. It was just sitting there on the Moon. Why fix Requiem but not Neo Genesis? Foundation needed more to win. Not just Requiem itself and a small fleet.

>>22628997
>Movie is literally Kira getting Cucked for nearly two hours
Haha

>>22633890
tbf if it wasn't for kira and crew, i can see orphee mog the world pretty hard

>>22633907
Until Earth decides to launch nukes at Foundation and the moon.

>>22633890
>All the world Militaries say screw that, and all charge at Black Knights at the same time
>Requiem can't recharge fast enough to laser them all
>Black Knights fleet can't handle huge military of entire world.
That plan doesn't work for several reasons. First, Earth doesn't have enough forces to send against Foundation. That fleet that took off from Endymion is tiny compared to what we saw in SEED or Destiny.
Second, these guys are psychopaths. When they saw the Millennium moving, the original target wasn't the ship, but Orb's capital (Kira psyched out Aura with his broadcast). If they had seen themselves cornered, they would've started shooting civilians right away. Remember that their first act was to incinerate Moscow.

>Maybe they should have fixed Neo Genesis too. It was just sitting there on the Moon. Why fix Requiem but not Neo Genesis?
Neo-Genesis was trashed as part of Messiah's ruin. It doesn't have much value as a weapon, unless they decide to put the whole asteroid in orbit again.

>a small fleet
They had dozens of those Baldr-class things, plus Laurasias and Nazcas bought from ZAFT, And the ZAFT coup fleet supporting them.

>>22633916
>Until Earth decides to launch nukes at Foundation and the moon.
Which, as we know already, are easy to intercept, either manually with beam guns or with a Neutron Stampeder.

>>22633047
>Any beam saber attached to a physical weapon (like Excalibur and Legend's Melee Beam DRAGOONS) could always pierce beam shields, even in destiny
But Kira was able to block physical beam sabers using a beam shield while piloting Rising Freedom and Strike Freedom?

>>22633918
>Which, as we know already, are easy to intercept
Are they? Seemed like only the Meteors were successful at stopping nuke spam.

>Neutron Stampeder.
Doubt they have one of those

Can anyone tell me how the femptec armor works? I'm confused. It stops beams and physical attacks right?

>>22633948
>Seemed like only the Meteors were successful at stopping nuke spam.
Orphee with the Ziggurats can do whatever the METEORs can.

>Doubt they have one of those
Again, Foundation's forces were geared up by ZAFT. If Earth decided to fire nukes at them, rest assured that ZAFT radicals would pop in with a Stampeder to stop them.

>>22633952
It stops regular beam rifle shots and offer some degree of resistance towards phsyical weapons (sort of like phase shift but worse), but beam sabers / anti-ship swords, large caliber beam weapons shot at point blank, and high momentum physical weapons do work against them.

TL Note: Femto in Femtotech is derived from femtometer, which is 10^-15 meters

Wait so Agnes was in love with Shinn the whole time? Then why was she dating like 3 other guys and going after Kira?

>>22633974
>Wait so Agnes was in love with Shinn the whole time?
Poor translation on the subs. Agnes is a self-centered bitch that believes she is owed appreciation from everyone.

>>22633829
Didn't some of the nameless Murasame pilots who aren't Mu die as well?
>>22633974
I thought the line was about Shura. Anyway, she's a gold digger and a self-entitled bitch.

>>22633974
Agnes was after anyone she thought could give her the prestige she felt like she deserved. Kira because he was her boss, Shinn because of his reputation as the Freedom Killer, Shura because he was leader of the Black Knights and beat Shinn in a swordfight. If Athrun had been around, she would have tried to go after him too. She's the CE version of Quess, except everyone knows that Agnes is a self-centered bitch.

>>22633821
Eh.......they should have just retired the Archangel or have it stay on Earth with Orb. Make the Millennium their new flagship. It's not really necessary to blow up the Archangel to introduce new stuff.

Look at how Tomino handles it. The Argama still exists and was handed off to Karaba on Earth. Them the crew got the Nahel Argama which was newer, bigger, and more powerful.

>>22633976
Agnes didn't seem to care much when Shura died.

>>22633976
>Didn't some of the nameless Murasame pilots who aren't Mu die as well?
Yeah, there's a bunch of them getting blasted.

>>22633980
Then that got replaced with the Ra Cailum, but the Nahel Argama was still around.

>>22633976
>Some
There is a pretty a good chance that all of them (11 IIRC) were KIA during Foundation's false flag op

>>22633988
Some anon said there was a manga or novel that mentioned the Nahel Argama was put into storage in some Federation Naval depot between the events of ZZ and CCA. Due to Londo Bell funding issues, Bright couldn't get it pulled out of mothballs and refit. Only after CCA was Londo Bell given more funding and Bright ordered the Nahel Argama to be refit.

>>22633975
This is even more confusing. Agnes has a bunch of men throwing themselves at her. Why is she complaining about not being loved?

>>22633996
>Agnes has a bunch of men throwing themselves at her. Why is she complaining about not being loved?
You don't get it, do you? Her need for attention is insatiable. Nothing she can possibly have could ever make her happy and just stews in resentment.

>>22633829
Sure, but compare Angel Down to how the Rising Freedom goes out. In Angel Down the Freedom gets knocked around a bit and Kira gets jostled around, but it's not until the last moment that it loses a wing and the rifle, and other than that it's completely unharmed for the entire fight. Kira even wrecks the Impulse at the same time that he gets stabbed. Shinn has every possible advantage and still only barely wins.

This time Kira gets the Rising Freedom's railguns cut off, loses a wing and an arm, runs completely out of power, gets pumped full of flechettes that crush the cockpit and only barely miss Kira, and the entire time he doesn't land a single hit on Shura. He loses as thoroughly as he could have lost without dying. The mobile suit is a visual metaphor for its pilot, and the visual language they use there is a much more brutal "death" than any other fight he's had except maybe the last Strike/Aegis fight.

>>22633961
>large caliber beam weapons shot at point blank
But the armor absorbed Strike Freedom's chest beam cannon at point blank range?

>>22634010
Assuming you are referring to when Athrun was fighting Shura who got hit by that after dodging the DRAGOONs, that wasn't point blank as "Shinn off'd two of the Black Knights with Arondight and Palma Fiocina"

I honestly thought Athrun and Meyrin were a couple. They acted very close and supportive of eachother. Then the reveal at the end of the movie changed it. I thought Cagalli got rid of the ring Athrun gave her and did the whole "I'm gonna marry myself to Orb" thing? Didnt Cagalli say something during Destiny about entrusting Athrun to Meyrin?

So, the only named good guys that lost their life was the two Dom guys?

>>22634030
I think Murosawa was planning for them to hook up in Destiny but that never happened.

>>22634068
Well she got the last laugh since Cagalli's old VA is never getting her role back for being whore who slept with Fukuda.

>>22634030
>>22634068
They were always the better fit for each other. Athrun needs the freedom (pun) to go investigation whatever problem he's got a bad feeling about while Meyrin would be content to be the SAHM like a military wife <s>and that includes cucking Athrun by fucking other men and not just riding Shinn's Excalibur.</s>

Is there a way to fix in the animation? Another anon mentioned it already but it feels like the fights are happening underwater. It doesn't feel like the fights have momentum and thrust. Is there like a weight setting they can change whatever software they use to make these scenes? Any CGI anons in the thread?

>>22634090
I think one of the last SEED things Murosawa worked on before she died was a audio drama which had Luna pointing how Meyrin still hangs around Athrun. Then Meyrin said that he might still harbor feelings for Cagalli.

What is the point of Impulse packs if none of them recharge the battery when swapping packs? Even Strike Gundam got recharged when swapping packs.

>>22634201
The Impulse was supposed to have its energy recharged from Minerva's Deuterion Beam Energy Transfer System since it was originally built with that in mind, but with no Minerva and the Millennium doesn't have that system built-in Erica Simmons probably decided to have Destiny Spec II to be able to perform the task instead.

>>22634201
Change equipment on the fly. Impulse gets a recharge from the Deutrion beam, so it wouldn't need extra batteries on the packs themselves. To be honest that was the primary function of the Striker Pack's too. Giving Strike more battery power was just a bonus

>>22634060
And yet that's still more than they took in Destiny

>>22633980
That's not how Fukuda rolls. Remember Angel Down's main purpose was just to blow Freedom up so Kira could get an upgrade without the original laying around for someone else to pilot.

>>22632668
>there is truth in what was said
It's a bunch of comment-section sophistry. "boo hoo uc sucks because zeon couldnt change the status quo" It's been going for a while with this guy:
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/22<wbr>486479/#22491385
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/22<wbr>492821/#22494592
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/22<wbr>492821/#22494203
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/22<wbr>492821/#22494167
As I said before, it's all a bunch of unfiltered "chud" philosophy.
<s>Also, note that bikini-schizo was defecating on that thread as well</s>

>>22633991
Most likely, given Mu's the only one we see escaping. Though given he disappears before they even get back to base (presumably he was in that shuttle that gets launched into space before Foundations lock down was called going up to Kusanagi to get Akatsuki prepped) so it's hard to say. If some of the other pilots were the Murasame trio from Destiny ie: the only ones who deploy in Berlin and the only ones who aren't wiped out by Shinn in Orb, then they're also ok as they were part of Kira's rescue group.

>>22634244
<s>Funny considering his obsession with pooping.</s>

>>22634216

You wonder what ever happened to the Minerva. It should have been salvageable after Destiny, and they made a point of going back to retrieve and repair Destiny and Impulse following the war. Yet not even Zaft seemed to take it back.

>>22634253
More than anything else, Minerva was a symbol of Durandal and his regime. You can repair Destiny in a secret Orb hangar to use as a testbed for fancy tech, but bringing back the Minerva is a different sack of potatoes.

>>22633974
>>22633979
Agnes never liked Shinn from the beginning. She mocks him constantly throughout the movie and couldn't comprehend that Luna actually loved him.
She's just your classical status chasing bitch.
The similarities with Quess are surface level at best.

>>22634259
That explains why Compass didn't want it, but considering a fair amount of Zaft seemed to be pro Durandal after all they'd have no problem repairing the ship and putting it back into regular Zaft service. It was their ship after all. If anything it would have been fitting for the leader of the coup to be using that as his ship rather than a generic one.

Ingrid was probably the most pathetic character overall.

>>22634259
How is Minerva a symbol but Impulse and Destiny aren't considered as such?

>>22634281
Wait, isn't the Millennium described as a "Super Minerva class"?

>>22634284
Impulse is less so than Destiny, but, again, they were just discarded units that Erica was using for tests, rather than combat machines on COMPASS' official service.

>>22634249
That trio are probably "elite" enough at this point to be stationed at Onogoro Island and serve as Cagalli's personal squad with Kisaka instead of stationed in Archangel

>>22634284
>Isn't the Millennium described as a "Super Minerva class"?
Yes, and according to the ship model numbers there might have been a planned second Minerva Class ship but it was never built:

LHM-BB01 - Minerva
LHM-BB02 - Unknown
LHM-BB03S - Millennium

>>22634284
Yeah and it's got some similarities it it's design but it's not built from the actual Minerva and looks distinctly different from the original to be it's own thing. It's kind of like the difference between the AA and the Kusanagi

>>22631767
How does Rossiu pull it off better than me?

>>22631466
He knows that Thunderbolt Fantasy Season 4 is coming

I have a serious pet peeve here. How come Archangel's 75mm (!) CIWS do nothing against Foundation forces, but the Millennium's much smaller 40mm CIWS can threaten Foundation forces?????

Do filmmakers have any idea how much BIGGER and more dangerous 75mm is??? It's a freaking tank shell! And the Archangel was shooting it like a machine gun! CIWS go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Even phase shift armor suits had to back off and/or use a shield to block 75mm CIWS it. It was a threat they couldn't ignore.

For reference, standard Phalanx CIWS used by the United States Navy ships is 20mm. And it fires the rounds like a chain gun.

>>22634351
did you miss the part where THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE is like this

12.5mm machine guns taking down Ginns
mwu stopping an anti-matter beam
railguns generally being weaker than machine guns

>>22634359
They need to bring back space mobile armors. They added such variety to seed.

>>22631468
But given that Freedom is a movie wouldn't there be a chance albeit small that a character voiced by him could actually live this time? inb4 he ended up voicing as one of the Black Knights so he'd pilot the orange Rud-ro.A and the girl takes the pink one instead.

>>22634361
Too bad the ones that were introduced in Destiny didn't amount for much except being fodder for Shinn and others.

>>22634351
Fukuda wanted Archangel to die! What's not to Understand?????

>>22634351
AA's CIWS do nothing to the Black Knights specifically, who never even get a shot at Millenium on account of Shinn soloing them all and keeping them from getting close. Presumably Millenium's guns would also do nothing to their units but they never get the chance.

>>22634366
That can't be tolerated! That ship was too good to deserve that.

So Accords can't go seed mode. Does that mean Kira is still the ultimate coordinator?

>>22634340
That's my reaction to TBF S4 coming too

>>22632842
Meyrin looks cute in this picture despite having her new look

Fukuda implied Mwu and Murrue had sex after the credits rolled on his latest tweet kek

>>22633117
SEED Destiny is more like ZZ taking place right after its predecessor series and like Zeta it had a disastrous course correction responding to fan backlash. A Zeta counterpart to SEED would mean a major timeskip and aging up of the old cast in addition to a new protagonist.

>>22634384
spoiled, friendless brat that thinks she owed any and everything while burning every bridge possible. funny how she shit talk Shinn during training days but he never gave up and had Rey and Lunamaria in his corner to help him.

>>22634495
All the couples fuck except Shinn and Luna

-Why didnt the Earth Alliance build more Archangel class?

-Why don't Earth Alliance have more ships with beam shields like in Seed Destiny? It can help block Requiem.

-How come Destroy Gundam can block Lohengrin but cannot block beam sabers?

-How big is Orb space fleet? How do Orb afford to pay for it? They country burn down twice

>>22634411

Being the Ultimate Coordinator has nothing to do with SEED mode. Athrun and Shinn have it too and they're not Ultimate Coordinators.

>>22634569
Don't forget Cagalli has it too and she's a Natural.

Sorry but this movie feels rushed. I still stand by my statement after seeing it in theaters. This would have worked way better as an OVA with a better focus on character development for everyone. We need more background on everyone especially Foundation.I hate introducing brand new characters in a movie, having them secretly be bad guys, and then killing them off in the span of a single movie.

I also get the feeling Orphee wasn't originally written as a child throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get his way. Call it a guess, but It feels like the character was rewritten several times until they settled on his current form. Did Fukuda ever discuss how many drafts were written? They had 20 years to write this movie so I imagine there were a lot of rewrites.

>>22634620

Yes, yes. I didn't bring her up because I figured >>22634411 would understand that having SEED mode doesn't mean you're the Ultimate Coordinator.

>>22634620
>Don't forget Cagalli has it too and she's a Natural.
Doesn't count. Her history is questionable since she's the sister of Kira the Ultimate Coordinator Yamato. Plus Uzumi is a known liar.

>>22634625
It definitely is rushed, Lacus and Durandal retcons don't make any sense, but it's probably because after Morosawa's death Fukuda wrote the movie on his own. He keeps contradicting the movie and the novel in live events.
I think at the start Orphee was just a foil to Kira and had no relations to Lacus, apparently her being an Accord is a last minute change.
The accord descriptions from Fukuda's tweet feel more serious than the actual characters we got in the movie.
Regarding the scripts, apparently there were hundreds of them and one of them was Kira against 20 clones of him, so Foundation was not even supposed to be a thing.

>>22634625
>Sorry but this movie feels rushed.
That's par for the course when it comes to Gundam SEED/Destiny. Mituo Fukuda's strength is as a flash marketer.
>Look at Akatsuki reflecting Requiem.
>Laugh at the meme Z'Gok
>Destiny has Kagebunshin mode.
Even some aspects of the movie's marketing were purposefully deceptive to generate hype, like picrel. Cagalli is never actually "in heat" except in Athrun's mind and not in that government uniform and the scene where Shinn wields the saber is a complete and utter waste. But they generated hype regardless, and the movie made box office, even if its going to be forgotten everywhere other than /m/ and r/gundam by the end of the year.
>Orphee wasn't originally written as a child
Fukuda's never been a good storyteller though. Part of the reason for this is because most of his villains are bad. Rau and to a lesser extent, Durandal are the exception. The rest of them are not noteworthy at all.

>>22634641
It's not even about Uzumi. We truly have no idea if Cagalli's real father didn't do any genetic shenanigans with Cagalli - even minor stuff. The guy was shady and willing to experiment on his own kids. Cagalli seems at least skilled enough to defeat someone like Nicol

Why does this movie feel like a copy of the Code Geass movie?

Honest question, /m/: Would you have preferred it if Banrise had put Shigeru Morita in charge of this project. Like, Fukuda would have a lead writing role but Morita was top authority and could veto/rewrite at his leisure. <br><s>I know this wouldn't happen, due to how Japanese revere the makers of fictional media, but am brainstorming.</s>

>>22634681
You will probably have to build a time machine to have that happen since SEED to try to fix most of the inconsistencies in both SEED and Destiny <s>not sure if Morita could stop Astray from getting more ridiculous though</s>

>>22634681

Goro Taniguchi (Gun X Sword & Code Geass) seems like a good fit for Seed. He can balance serious with humor, and does action scenes in a flashy manner similar to Fukuda. Although he is a bit more grounded.

Seiji Mizushima (Gundam 00 & Full Metal Alchemist) is another good choice.

I'm also morbidly curious how Tomino himself would have handled Gundam Seed.

So Accords are just Coordinators with minor telepathy and mind reading abilities? They suck and use their mind reading abilities as a crutch. As soon as they faced someone they couldnt mind read (Shinn) or had a way to counter mind reading (Athrun), they folded like tin foil. They had no natural piloting instinct or experience. Orphee seemed to be weaker than Shura in direct combat. Orphee relied on having the best machine and being designated as "leader". He couldn't actually beat Kira in direct melee combat. They were about equal.

The freaking Extended from Season 1 were better pilots than the Accords. They were vicious, cunning, and ruthless. Athrun and Kira even tried their "talk no jutsu" on the Extended to get them to stop fighting. Did they have some hidden trauma like Rey in Legend Gundam? Nope! The Eztended's response was basically, "Nah. I like killing. It's fun. Eat a dick" and continued blasting away.

>>22634699
>I'm also morbidly curious how Tomino himself would have handled Gundam Seed.
Depends on when he'd take over or if he was given it from the start. If he took it over, he'd probably do some deep dig at Fukuda wanting to keep the story contained, by having side-story suits get bodied or scrapped for tax purposes

>>22634663
I swear Fukuda gave up on this movie getting made, turned it into the last eight episodes of Cross Ange, and then had to change the movie to not be 1:1 Cross Ange.

>>22634718
This is exactly why if the Black Knights were to dogpile against the Biological CPUs, they'll die as fast as the mooks. Shura might not even touch Shani's Forbidden because of the latter's beam-bending shields, the Raider can use his Gundam Hammer effectively to pound their Femtech Armor like shrapnel, and then there's Orga's Calamity, who could just try and blast his enemies like no tomorrow. Sure, the Calamity could fall against the Black Knights, but the other two make up for it.

>>22634734
At the very least, the whole "Fall into Darkness!" mental attack is doubtful it would work on Extendeds. Their minds are so coked up on drugs, and stimulants that they would probably laugh it off.

Accord mind reading seems to be shallow and surface level. They couldn't read Shinn when he in the zone. And Shura didn't even realize Athrun was actually piloting Strike Freedom until half way into their fight. Shura couldn't go deep into Athrun's mind and realize they had a plan to counter mind reading. Shura could only sense "Athrun is thinking about dodging in <Insert specific direction>". Very overrated.

>>22634745
I think that was kind of the point with the Accords. They aren't particularly smart or good pilots. They try to win by overwhelming you with sheer numbers after psyching you out with their mind tricks. However, against people with two wars of experience, they're hopelessly outmatched.
Look at how much they had to use to beat base Kira in the Rising Freedom and even then Kira was holding out for quite a long time.

I need big help. I only watched Gundam Wings as a kid and want to get into the whole series again, is there a watching guide that explains which series is part of what universes/timelines and such (if such a thing even exists in Gundam, idk)?

>>22634870
Nearly all Gundam shows are in their own universes and can be watched standalone. Just pick any one that you like the look of, you don't need a guide.

This is a long shot but does anyone have the four Gundam Seed Character Theater shorts that were subtitled by RyRo? all the torrents are dead and I'd rather not have the youtube versions.

>>22634557
>Why didn't the Earth Alliance build more Archangel class?
>Why don't Earth Alliance have more ships with beam shields like in Seed Destiny? It can help block Requiem.
The Earth Alliance is extremely weakened. Note that we barely see their forces, other than a fleet that gets wiped out by Requiem and some Eurasian forces with obsolete tanks and Daggers.

>How big is Orb space fleet? How do Orb afford to pay for it? They country burn down twice
At least three Izumos and their complement of Murasames.

>>22635290
Good guy Kira
>here orphee, let me give you a hand

>>22629005
Actually no. She got sent to jail according to the novels.

>>22631932
Flayfags coping that Lacus gives better and wholesome sex than toxic cancelled Alster hag.

>>22635394
the novels have changes not in the anime doesn't it? Also those post cards in OP apparently have more post movie story stuff to them but haven't been uploaded/translated yet

>>22635397
>the novels have changes not in the anime doesn't it?
That's right. The novel has numerous changes that are different from the anime. It takes place in its own seperate universe.

>>22635397
It's time to face facts
 Agnes was sent to federal 'pound me in the ass' prison.

>>22635414
Honestly should throw Hilda a bone and let her keep her as a pet. I do wonder if her parents are influential enough to get her to dodge prison or at least reduced sentence, you could make a case she was brainwashed

>>22633997
On the flip side, Shura doesn't even care about Agnes the whole time. He's nothing but a proud warrior race guy through and through, just like every other Accord not named Lacus Clyne. All he cares is fighting the strong, especially Athrun, and knows jack shit about love, if whatever Athrun is thinking is any hint.

>>22635404
Isn't Agnes an even worse person in the novel than she is in the movie?

>>22635423
Oh yeah, especially because you're privy to her inner thoughts.

>>22635423
Yes she's a horrible person in both versions. Just like how Quess was annoying in both the novel and movie. But the Freedom novel has some differences compared to the anime. So you can't merge them together.

Did Aura not train her kids to fight without telepathy? Surely she must have realized that there are people out there that won't be affected by it. Especially since the movie makes use of drones and AI warfare.

Accords are basically a branch off of the Ultimate Coordinator project yes? Aura was some lower tier scientist who worked on the project, but had her own ideas on what the next Gen of humans should be. She wanted mind reading and telepathy instead for her own personal batch of coordinators. But they lack Seed factor and newtype abilities.

Also where do Newtypes fit into all this? They have super spatial awareness, can sense the presence of others, and have limited precognition during combat. That seems like more of a benefit than supposed mind reading.

>>22635523
im not even joking. i think i might cop this

>>22635525
>Did Aura not train her kids to fight without telepathy? Surely she must have realized that there are people out there that won't be affected by it.

She did not, just teaching them that they were the best and strongest and would always win because it was their design to. Because Aura is a megalomaniac

Need a movie with just Athrun kicking ass and beating the shit out of Kira.

>>22634870
Just pick a title and watch it. Even if you picked one of those 90s UC OVAs they're still mostly self explanatory.
Note that 08th ms team's final episode will make no sense no matter what.

>>22634030
Meyrin is clearly his mistress

>>22633974
>>22633975
That Agnes's last line was stupidity. It's illogical and stupid that she fell in love with Shura in what? 2 days? It only made her look worse than she already looked in the whole movie. And if it was for Shin, she would have seemed MORE immature and MORE of a bitch. It had more sense if she was refering to Kira, but still that line was uncalled for. It had had more sense if that line would have been something like: "Why I was defeated by her?" Or even "I want to be loved".

>>22635628
I doubt Agnes actually "loved" anyone. It was just a series of crushes and attempts to demonstrate value by poaching people's boyfriends if they could raise her status.

>>22634030
According to an interview of Morosawa about Destiny's final, i think she wanted Athrun ended up with Meyrin. But, well, she passed away and Fukuda had different plans about it.
But I also think Meyrin was a better match for Athrun. From what I've seen about the movie, the movie's novels, a CD dramas, there's a more relaxed atmosophere for Athrun when he is with Meyrin than when he is with Cagalli.

>>22635628
>>22635629
Deacon said that he had some objections to the subtitles. I think that's one of the things he's talking about, because the meaning is completely different between them and his translation of the novel; closer to...
>Or even "I want to be loved".

>>22635394
Seeing OP cards, she doesn't seem like someone that is going to jail.

>>22635639
Where the hell does Athrun get personal time to even be with Cagalli and develop a relationship? She's always working or on some political mission for Orb. Athrun is doing undercover work with Meyrin supporting him in the field.

>>22635394
>>22635646
>She got sent to jail according to the novels.
Horseshit.

>>22635659
That's the thing, he doesn't really have the time. Their relationship is the least explored and developed.

Umm...how come no one has mentioned INCEST? The blue haired girl Ingrid is Orphee's sister. She grew up with him as a brother. Yet shes in love with him??????? No one is talking about incest????

>>22635720
>INCEST
>????
>???????
Go away, tourist. Your kind isn't well-received here.

>>22635742
>Are they blood related?
THIS is what you immediately think of?

>>22635742
You mean other than calling eachother brother and sister, and Aura calling them her children? And besides the fact they were all raised together and trained together since they were kids?

>>22635761
Japan as romantic sibling like relationships in stories all the time. As long as they aren't blood related it's apparently aok.

>>22635783
If Aura is their mother, then they are bare minimum half-siblings.

>>22635786
Something something purity of the DNA. Worked for the royal families, sort of.

>>22635786
I think they are Aura's "Children" with quotation marks.
Genetically, they're probably some sort of genetic chimeras to ensure perfection, rather than her literal flesh-and-blood. They all at least look different enough to not think immediately of siblings.
Otherwise, why bother with the different surnames? And different ethnicities, by all appearances?

>>22633800
>>22633980
>>22634366

Interestingly Millenium's lineart has 01 on the ship instead of the 02 it has in the final film which makes me wonder if originally Millennium was just going to be the only major ship in the film period and AA was either going to be absent or only used in a minor appearance like Eternal and Kusanagi were only for Fukuda to insist on making it one of Compass's main ships so he could have it destroyed.

>>22633976
One got stabbed by a 105 Dagger while Muu was in a deadlock with another 105 Dagger.

>>22635859
I honestly think the movie would have gone smoother without destroying the Archangel or even having it as a Compass ship. That's a good 20 minutes they save and could devote it towards more character development or worldbuilding with Foundation.

They could come up with a simple reason like "In order to show true neutrality, Compass decided to build a brand new class of ship using technology from all factions. Archangel remains as part of Orb's defense fleet on Earth."

Boom. Done. Not sure why Fukuda didn't think of that. Then show all the new technology on Millennium and why it's superior to Archangel. Have AA and other ships just be background ships.

>>22635786
I want to make children with Aura

>>22635926
She's a grandma in a tiny girl's body.

Anyone else think it's absurd that the Millennium didn't take any damage in the final battle?

>>22634453
Meyrin always looks good with her new look <s>in fan-arts. In official materials, she looks awful</s>

>>22635936
As if that won't be the custom of billionaires in 50 years. They'll fork out the cash and have their consciousness cloned via AI, then implanted via microchip into a younger person's body

>>22635936
That's even hotter, I want to manhandle and put the haughty granny coordinator in her place by making her bear natural children

>>22634664
>Cagalli seems at least skilled enough to defeat someone like Nicol
This delulu, Nicol was Zaft red coat I have never seen C defeat anyone except some grunts, she also never engaged in her own, even when she actived Seed mode in Seed she still needed to be saved by Yzak, she is never that good of pilot to begin with

>>22636371
The kids will be coordinators. Naturals and Coordinators are supposed to mix.

>>22635926
>>22636371
Given her actual age wouldn't she be dried up by then?

>Making her bear natural children
Wouldn't they just end up being half-coordinators?

>>22636393
>Naturals and Coordinators are supposed to mix.
In your headcanon why do some anons here never stop saying this when it is just some anons wild speculation

>>22636393
I assume Aura would be offended at having non-genetically edited babies considering she believes her enhanced children are the pinnacle of the future
>>22636395
The accident that de-aged her probably de-aged her whole body right?

>>22636407
t. Patrick Zala, mind you that the whole Coordinator sterility issue due to "inbreeding" was basically only brought up twice in SEED and Destiny

https://youtu.be/jr7Icx-dpF4?t=660

>>22636376
WHY DIDN'T THEY MAKE A SKINTIGHT PILOT SUIT FOR HER TO WEAR TO PROMOTE THE MOVIE

>>22636418
Then there is no need to be coordinator if you are just going back to being natural, also what I mean is that George Glenn quote that keep being misenterpretated here just because the horny wants to fuck Luna

>>22636535
The point was for Coordinators to artificially raise the percentage of people with desirable traits like strength, speed, intelligence, etc., and then by interbreeding with Naturals, raise the human average above what it was before. Repeat the process a few times and you'd get to the point where most humans had most of the abilities of Coordinators but with the genetic diversity to avoid the fertility issues. In other words, it was a utopic ideal that completely failed when it was up against the realities of how people actually behave, especially in CE.

>>22629590
I didn't even realize that until you pointed it out

>>22636600
>and then by interbreeding with Naturals, raise the human average above what it was before.
Made-up bullshit. There's nothing anywhere about "Coordinators interbreeding with Naturals", save for that one stupid manga.
Coordinators were created as an upgraded human species for space exploration, by George Glenn's own words.

>>22636600
>raise the human average above what it was before
It does not, it will cause them to go back to being Natural with every generation losing Coordinator traits listen to what Patrick said, he didn't mean bad but it will be wasting of their efforts if they are just going to go back to being natural, also George never said they need to inbreed with Natural he only said Coordinators to be the bridge in human evolution to make world a better place that is why Mendel come out with Super Coordinators ideas to guide them for that ideal, inbreeding with Natural only come out as idea by Siegel to solve coordinator birdrates because he was protecting half coordinators village in Murica.

People should understand the conflict in CE they don't accept half coordinator because they are traitor and seen as being inferior compare to pure blooded

>>22636996
>inbreeding with Natural only come out as idea by Siegel to solve coordinator birdrates because he was protecting half coordinators village in Murica.
Nothing from Astray is canon, you illiterate moron.

>>22637011
Nah inbreeding with Natural came out as Siegel's solution for coordinators birthrate in Seed but it was denied by Patrick

>>22634030
She wanted it but she was the only one that did, you can see from the Remake drama cd that she was back tracking on it. Ultimately the main issue with Athrun and Meyrin is that Destiny went out of its way to portray Cagalli in a negative light, and now we realize that that was solely because of Morosawa. Once she was no longer in charge then sinking Athrun and Meyrin was too easy.

>>22637028
Patrick and Siegel have an argument about the subject and the overall war, but the latter never explicitly suggested interbreeding with Naturals.

>>22636386
Cagalli never really goes onto the front lines and I think that's because they didn't want to answer any uncomfortable questions about her.

Kira is the Ultimate Coordinator but they've never answer what they really means.

>>22634030
Athrun X Meyrin make more sense. But Fukuda and the fans wants Athrun X Cagalli

Fans want their princes and princesses to paired up. It's their dream pairing.

Athrun Prince of ZAFT with Princess of Orb Cagalli

Meyrin ruins it in their eyes.

>>22637113
Kira (coordinator prince) x Lacus (princess of ZAFT)

>>22637113
>Athrun Prince of ZAFT
Athrun is a pariah in PLANT. Why do you think he went there under a false name and is working for Terminal?
>say, isn't that guy the son of the wannabe tyrant?

>>22637129
I mean he did return to PLANT and re-enrolled in ZAFT as Athrun Zala during the events of Destiny, but I wonder which bit is worse for turning him into a pariah:

- Being the son of Patrick Zala
- Working with Lacus Clyne at the end of SEED
- Being accused of being a traitor by Durandal because Athrun is basically seen as disposable by that point

>>22637129
Athrun was respected for many years as the son of the leader of ZAFT, and a red coat who successfully accomplished high level missions on his own. Athrun has near celebrity status, and many people still support Patrick Zala's ideals.

>>22637148
>Athrun has near celebrity status
>and many people still support Patrick Zala's ideals.
Automatic contradiction right here, since Athrun has always rejected his father's legacy.

>>22637107
>uncomfortable questions about her.
Like what?

>Kira is the Ultimate Coordinator but they've never answer what they really means.
They have answered in Seed and in the movie

>>22637142
He is known as traitor if you going by Patric Zala idea and like Agnes said him being defector turned people off

The Archangel really did have an insane run throughout the series.

>>22637181
Should have been retired earlier with how many holes get put in it.

>>22636952

I'm sure children between Naturals and Coordinators can be beneficial to helm future space expeditions, thus something Glenn could support.

>>22637197
>I'm sure children between Naturals and Coordinators can be beneficial to helm future space expeditions
On the contrary.

>When I first saw the setting of Evidence 01, the space whale, I was excited, thinking, "Gundam fighting aliens!"
SHIGERU MORITA: Its discovery shows that there is non-human life in the universe. If it is an intelligent life form, then a superior human being would have to exist as an intermediary between the two to make first contact. A strong constitution that would not be easily attacked by unknown pathogens. These are the Coordinators, the beings destined to be the intermediaries between humanity and the yet-to-be-seen extraterrestrial intelligences. Their name comes from the role they were born to play.
However, there is no mention of them actually coordinating with extraterrestrial intelligences. The fossil in the Supreme Council building is a symbol of their roots and the reason why they were born. The space whale is a story for the Coordinators, so it is not a setting that expands on itself.
Incidentally, the original idea is from a science fiction novel called "The Mote in God's Eye," in which there is an alien species called the "Mediators". That's the source of the idea for the Coordinators.
— CE Mechanic & World databook interview, p.280

>>22637158
>Automatic contradiction right here, since Athrun has always rejected his father's legacy.
That's not a contradiction. Athrun is the son of one of the most famous leaders of ZAFT and is a famous pilot/solder. That's what the public sees. Whether or not Athrun personally accepts his father's ideals in his heart is irrelevant.

>>22637259
He is still defector if Dearka got demoted he should get even lower than that if without Durandal intervention

>>22637259
>Athrun is the son of one of the most famous leaders of ZAFT
>That's what the public sees.
Are you stupid or something? Patrick Zala is remembered as an insane radical. A name and legacy come with a lot of baggage behind them.

>>22637113
Athrun and Meyrin actually don't have many scenes together in Destiny, and even when you get down to it how it even became a thing was pretty forced as they were acquitances at best and yet Meyrim decided up give up everything for a man she barely even knew. Even Morosawa ended up backtracking on it, while acknowledging how it was pretty stupid to begin with.

Athrun is a pariah in PLANT but at this point I don't expect AthrunxMeyrinfags to be objective.

>>22637280
I figured he and Meyrin were pardoned. Plus, how can he get demoted if he's not part of ZAFT anymore. Even if he wanted to rejoin would they even let him after he's betrayed them twice?

>>22637165
Like other anon said do you honestly expect that Dr. Hibiki didn't altery her in some way? Even Kira was able to hide as a Nayural.

>>22637286
Not that anon but I doubt that even if the current Regime pardoned Athrun the people would accept him. Like other anon said his father is a pariah and he is a traitor, he is no prince. That's why he uses a fake name.

Meyrin deciding to help him was pretty stupid so even if she is forgiven he won't be

>>22637281
>Patrick Zala is remembered as an insane radical.
Prove it.

As far as I can see, he was widely supported by the public until he was killed at the Jachin Due at the end of Season 1.

>>22637287
Because she was still in Via womb while Kira being born outside in artificial womb, don't you understand why she is natural, if she is altered too she will be a coordinator not Natural

>>22637300
Athrun isn't a criminal. He's a legend. Most of the crew on the Minerva were in awe of him when he joined them.

>>22637307
And Kira also hid as a Natural for years thing is unless you are there for their birth you can't tell the difference between a Natural and a Coordinator.

>>22637309
Then why is he in hiding? It doesn't even matter because by the end of Destiny he became a deserter.

>>22637307
Are you forgetting Coordinators can be born in wombs too. Hibiki was such a sketchy person that wasn't above experimenting on his own kids. There's no way to guarantee he didn't do anything to Cagalli when he cut open his own wife to remove Kira and experiment on him.

>>22637286
>I figured he and Meyrin were pardoned
Meyrin has no where to go she will be either with Eternal or Compass or working in Orb but since Eternal is no longer in action so she work in Terminal which was also Eternal/Lacus supporter because Athrun needs her skill

>>22637313
>Then why is he in hiding?

Because he didn't want to Patrick Zala's supporters to try to use him as a symbol and take back political power at ZAFT. Also, Athrun wasn't sure what he wanted to do with his life after Seed ended. So he hid away Orb to think and be near Cagalli. Char did the same thing in UC.

>>22637318
I wonder if she's still pining for him or if she gave up since he's still into Cagalli. Did Freedom ever say?

>>22637306
>As far as I can see, he was widely supported by the public until he was killed at the Jachin Due at the end of Season 1.
Yes, him and his warpath had the public behind, until they were almost destroyed and the war was over. In the aftermath, he becomes a symbol of belligerence, a thing Durandal is explicitly moving away from.

>Prove it.
Remind me, who invokes Patrick by name and his "righteous path"?

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>>22637281
You seem to be forgetting that Patrick Zala was fairly elected and supported by the Zaft general public. He didn't seize power.

>>22637310
>>22637316
Then it is missing the point if she is also coordinator all along and Orb people will likely get angry at her but if it doesn't get address by Fukuda it is likely not happened in the narrative so no matter how much you pushed there must be something if director don't address then there is nothing

>>22637344
nta, but why would Orb be angry at Cagalli for being a Coordinator to begin with? And wouldn't the bigger "problem" for her was that Uzumi adopted her?

>>22637344
I mean did no one at Orb ask why Cagalli is a blonde haired white girl, while "her father" Uzumi was a guy with dark brown hair and dark brown skin? Lmao.

>>22637351
>>22637355
Still the main point if it never gets addressed by Fukuda it is not important in narrative I don't bother to discuss because I feel like discussing fanfiction

>>22637324
She is just there working professionally as Terminal information hacker as his partner and supports his relationship with Cagalli

>>22637355
I'm pretty sure it's public knowledge she was adopted.

>>22637339
He hid his crazy back then. When he started going on his ree Naturals must all die nuke the Earth spiel everyone in the room looked at him like he was nuts and one of his own guys shot him.

>>22637339
>You seem to be forgetting that Patrick Zala was fairly elected and supported by the Zaft general public.
>He didn't seize power.
Where did I say he seized power? However, his violent purge of Clyne supporters does look a bit undemocratic. Also, a number of unhinged leaders have been elected by the public, such as Milosevic.
Putting aside the convoluted political structure of PLANT (https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_<wbr>id=11474, ZAFT is the name of the armed forces, not the place), Patrick only received his post after Siegel's period expired. Switzerland has an almost identical governing scheme, with a governing Council led by a rotating Chairman with little particular power.

Anyhow, the point is that Patrick's legacy becomes rejected after the war is over, not during his period. He was killed to stop GENESIS and his supporters got arrested.

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>>22637351
It wouldn't matter because there is no physical difference between coordinator and a natural.

>>22637320
Just a reminder that Athrun's father was killed by his own supporters, because even they thought that he went too far.

>>22637318
Meyrin really fucked up her life for a guy she barely knew, it's no wonder she more looks older than her older sister.

>>22637384
>However, his violent purge of Clyne supporters does look a bit undemocratic.
They were caught on VIDEO stealing the top secret nuclear powered Freedom Gundam. Lacus helped Kira on video. She didn't even hide her face or wear a disguise like a pilot suit. LOL You would think Clyne supporters wouldnt be STUPID enough to not disable the cameras before stealing Freedom Gundam.

>>22637397
And yet, the Clyne faction came up on top when the war was over, to the point Durandal had to create a fake one to push his agenda on the public.

>>22637393
>Just a reminder that Athrun's father was killed by his own supporters, because even they thought that he went too far.
Only when he was going to target Washington DC with Genesis to end the war once and for all. The Military were fine with all his other previous orders. They didn't care about genociding entire Natural fleets or blowing up the moon with Genesis.

And his the military officers shooting Zala were questionable too. They claimed the battle was "already won" and no more sacrifices were needed, but the EA were literally still launching nukes at zaft colonies and trying to kill everyone during the battle. So I have no idea how they could claim the battle was "already won". The battle was still on going!

>>22637412
To be honest the end of seed was a cluster fuck. NOBODY in that control room should have been questioning Zala's orders. The EA had launched 3 seperate barrages of nuclear missiles at zaft colonies. They had no defense against it. Their homes were almost nuked 3 times. There should have been no hesitation at all.

>>22637412
>They didn't care about genociding entire Natural fleets or blowing up the moon with Genesis.
Legitimate military targets. It looks brutal, but it's far more justifiable than Hiroshima/Nagasaki, so the "genocide" moniker doesn't apply here. There isn't even collateral damage to worry about here.

>And his the military officers shooting Zala were questionable too. They claimed the battle was "already won" and no more sacrifices were needed, but the EA were literally still launching nukes at zaft colonies and trying to kill everyone during the battle. So I have no idea how they could claim the battle was "already won". The battle was still on going!
I know it's difficult because of shoddy editing, but try and keep track of the sequence of events. When Patrick's aide said "the battle was already won" for ZAFT, they had already destroyed Earth's main base on the moon, an entire EA fleet and its two main military leaders, Azrael and Sutherland, were dead.
If Patrick hadn't gone full genocidal and/or Lacus' people hadn't intervened in the battle, PLANT could've forced a clear victory over Earth's forces; perhaps even forcing a surrender, rather than getting forced to a ceasefire and post-war agreement that was basically a tie.

And, again...
>PLANT = country/colonies
>ZAFT = name of the armed forces

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>>22637437
Zaft destroyed all those targets, yet the main EA fleet on their doorstep STILL didn't surrender and still had nukes.

>>22637429
They had a bunch of their own forces still on Earth in their allied and captured bases, plus a ton of their own troops in the firing line. To say nothing of destroying the only habitable planet nearby and the fact that it would drive the entire Natural race to extinction. That was a huge sacrifice to make because "Well they might have a few more nukes left." Which they didn't, the entire Peacemaker force had been destroyed by that point along with all EA flagships and all 3 of their Gundams.

>>22637441
>>22637412
I'm asking you, PLEASE, follow the sequence of events. Ignore Lacus' babbling and concentrate (episodes correspond to the remaster):

PHASE 45.
>EA neutralizes Boaz with nukes
>EA and ZAFT fleets face each other
>Three Ships Alliance moves to stop everyone
>Peacemaker Force fires nukes at PLANT, TSA intercepts them
>Genesis uncloaks and charges

PHASE 46:
>Genesis fires against approaching EA forces, destroying at least half of them. Survivors retreat
>EA forces move into attack again
>Genesis charges again

PHASE 47:
>Genesis shot destroys Ptolemaus. Half of the EA fleets are reported destroyed
>Peacemaker Force fires nukes at PLANT. TSA intercepts them
>Doolittle sunk, Sutherland killed
>Dominion sunk, Azrael killed

The EA had been utterly defeated before the finale in episode 48. Its fleets (including Peacemaker) were decimated and its main base was a crater. Patrick had no reason to fire Genesis at Earth except being insane.
So, yes, ZAFT had already won at that stage.

Fukuda mentioned there is one more movie so Freedom Heist will be a movie too? I don't think any actual sequel can happen without Morosawa draft it will be like Fukuda betrayed her legacy also the 2nd half of the movis of doing whatever he wanted is like farewell fanservice, if there will be sequel it is most likely will be about new characters with new directors and writers too set in CE.

>>22637471
All it takes is a single nuke to destroy a Plant Colony. There's no guarantee nukes were only on the peacemaker force. Destroying half the EA fleet isn't enough. They are still a massive force that refuses to surrender.

>>22637495
The EA was not "defeated". The only reason that Plant was not a bunch of smoldering ruins was because Team Lacus saved them at the last moment. The EA came within a hair's breadth of destroying all of Plant.

Now that nukes are on the table now, Zaft can't protect all of Plant anymore. Even if they survive this encounter, the EA could come back with more nukes or a bigger fleet. Or they could try some sneaky Mirage colloid nukes. I'm not saying I agree with Patrick Zala's decision to hit Washington DC. But the idea was to cut off the head of the snake and force EA to surrender to prevent further casualties.

>>22637495
Just because the nukes were intercepted doesn't mean a retaliatory strike isn't justified. EA got 3 nuke shots. Zaft should get 3 Genesis blasts. Not 2. It's only fair.

>>22637522
>The EA was not "defeated". The only reason that Plant was not a bunch of smoldering ruins was because Team Lacus saved them at the last moment. The EA came within a hair's breadth of destroying all of Plant.
Anon, do you have object permanence? Can you follow cause-and-effect? After the Dominion was destroyed, the Earth Alliance had no forces left with which to keep attacking ("culminating point", in military parlance). In comparison, ZAFT's forces were minimal, losing only Boaz.

>I'm not saying I agree with Patrick Zala's decision to hit Washington DC. But the idea was to cut off the head of the snake and force EA to surrender to prevent further casualties.
There is no "destroying Washington DC". Patrick is well aware that a Genesis blast on Earth would sterilize the planet.

A sensible strategy for ZAFT at this stage is doing the same thing Foundation attempted: Earth surrenders its forces now or their civilians will get blasted.

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>>22637539
> After the Dominion was destroyed, the Earth Alliance had no forces left with which to keep attacking
They had a substantial scattered fleet left. Only their lead ships were knocked out. Dominion wasn't the last ship in the EA fleet.

>In comparison, ZAFT's forces were minimal, losing only Boaz.
>minimal
>Boaz
One of their greatest fortresses and most elite defense troops were stationed there. It was a huge loss. Especially since Zaft doesn't have the numbers that EA does. It hurt a lot more.

>>22637546
>substantial
Substantial? No, Anon. The EA forces in the battlefield were obliterated:
>After Genesis' first shot, from ZAFT: "half of the enemy forces have been destroyed"
>After Genesis' second shot, from EA: "half of our fleets have been destroyed", and Peacemaker had lost contact with a part of its force.
I don't know how can you get "substantial" when dialogue tells you of the magnitude of the destruction the EA had incurred.

A handful were still fighting near Jachin, but ZAFT was taking good care of them. Perhaps they can send more reinforcements from Earth, but ZAFT has a deterrent through Genesis.

>>22637571
So you admit your wrong. That means 25% to 30% of the original EA force is left. That's not ALL obliterated

>>22637587
All the more reason to forget it especially when you don't like it or traumatized you

>>22637581
>That means 25% to 30% of the original EA force is left.
Anon, I don't think you understand what it means to lose 75% of your forces during an attack. These are crazy "IJA in full banzai charge" levels of attrition. Command and cohesion among units on the battlefield are non-existent at that stage.
You honestly think battles are over only after you kill every single enemy within reach?

>>22637597
To be fair to other anon it entirely depends on how much forces the EA started with. In UC Gundam, Zeon destroyed two thirds of the attacking Federation fleet. But the remaining was still plenty enough to overwhelm the Zeon defenders

>>22637522
Firing at any part of Earth would have killed everything on it. There was no cutting the head of the snake there was just the total genocide of every Natural. And a fair chunk of Coordinators too because Zaft had lots of personnel on Earth too. There would be no surrender because there would be nobody left alive to surrender

>>22637512
Attempting total genocide because of that is the equivalent of murdering every person you come across in life because there's a chance they might have a weapon to attack you and possibly kill you with. It's simply impractical and taking things to a lunatic extreme.

>>22637597
How big was the EA fleeting attacking PLANT?

>>22637287
>>22637310
Kira did not hide his friends know he is coordinator and since he is 1st gen so nothing wrong with him being in neutral city, but his mom still having a hard time rising him so she put him to attend coordinator school in Moon when he met Athrun

>>22637437
>Legitimate military targets.
What's your point? The earth alliance already fired nukes at Plant which are not military targets.

The "Legitimate military targets" excuse no longer applies.

>>22637662
Big, at least a couple dozen ships worth of MS and MAs, but they get hammered between Zaft and the TSA and by the final episode there's really only a few stragglers that aren't even getting close to Jachin Due.

>>22637643
Are you saying Earth is more important than PLANT? Because the EA doesn't give AF and just tried to genocide the entire Coordinator race.

>>22637674
>What's your point?
The post in >>22637412 (yours?) said that
>The Military were fine with all his other previous orders. They didn't care about genociding entire Natural fleets or blowing up the moon with Genesis.
The first two Genesis shots were aimed at EA military forces. There is nothing for anyone to object there, and it is not fucking "genocide".
Do you keep track of the discussion here?

>>22637683
Again there are PLANT people still on Earth too as well as some PLANT friendly nations, not to mention the idea of destroying all the civilians and all the neutral countries in collateral damage just because one major government did a horrible thing.

>>22637498
>>22637498
They actually could set up for most interesting sequel since Kira and Lacus might give birth to monsters

>>22637697
Their home was just nearly nuked into dust. Plants were almost destroyed. You don't get to say "well Earth is bigger and it's not a fair trade. So you can't shoot earth but we can keep shooting plants" is stupid logic.

>>22637725
>is stupid logic.
No, yours is stupid logic. You are advocating for genocide. The idea here is that Genesis is a deterrent ("blackmail", in dumbass terms) against further attacks.

>You don't get to say "well Earth is bigger
Yes, you do. Patrick was willing to murder 5,000,000,000 innocent people for the actions of a handful of radicals.

>nearly nuked
>almost
In other words, it did not happen.

>>22637689
Why is it okay for EA to nuke civilian colonies which have millions of civilians, but not okay for Zaft to respond in kind?

>>22637739
>In other words, it did not happen.
No it happened. They fired nukes at Plant. But it was stopped by Team Lacus. Intercepting the missiles does not absolve the Earth Alliance from what they did. They attempted genocide. Living on Earth does give EA and "lol you can't touch me" shield. If Britain nuked Russia, do you you seriously think the Russia would care that Britain is 20% the size of Russia and is much smaller? Nope. Russia would respond with nukes of their own. You aren't being realistic about the situation.

>>22637743
I just answered you: you threaten the Earth Alliance with retaliation if they dare to fire nukes again. Mutual assured destruction.

>to respond in kind?
It's not a response "in kind". What part of "half of life on Earth will perish if GENESIS is fired" you do not get? Patrick was cut of the same radical cloth as the Blue Cosmos nuts.

>>22637746
>If Britain nuked Russia, do you you seriously think the Russia would care that Britain is 20% the size of Russia and is much smaller? Nope. Russia would respond with nukes of their own. You aren't being realistic about the situation.
Exactly. Other anon doesn't get it. You try to destroy our home, then we get to destroy your home. It's Mutually Assured Destruction.

>>22637749
>"half of life on Earth will perish if GENESIS is fired"
But they tried to destroy all life on Plants? The kid gloves are off at that point. The EA didn't even try to nuke Jachin Due or Genesis which are military targets. They just kept hammering Plants with nukes.

>>22637760
>The kid gloves are off at that point.
Again you hit the nail on the head. Once you start throwing nukes then all is fair.

>The EA didn't even try to nuke Jachin Due or Genesis which are military targets. They just kept hammering Plants with nukes.
Also a very good point.

>>22637327
>a thing Durandal is explicitly moving away from.
Durandal used the Requiem energy blast on Earth. Technically he's even worse than Patrick Zala

>>22637760
>But they tried to destroy all life on Plants?
That's where you come off as the rational party in the exchange. Lacus and her coop gave ZAFT an out to come off as the total victors.
All they needed to do was decimate Earth's forces in space and announce their demand for the EA to stand down. Otherwise, they'll fire Genesis at Earth and seven billion innocents die.

In fact, this is exactly what Truman did after Hiroshima:
>We have laid down the general terms on which they can surrender. Our warning went unheeded; our terms were rejected. Since then the Japanese have seen what our atomic bomb can do. They can foresee what it will do in the future.
>That attack is only a warning of things to come. If Japan does not surrender, bombs will have to be dropped on her war industries and, unfortunately, thousands of civilian lives will be lost.

>>22637778
NTA.

No. The rationale thing would have been for EA to cease their attack after Genesis was fired once. Then call for peace talks since they know Genesis could hit Earth. Both sides have their homes threatened. So the playing field is equal. But Director Azrael and Earth Alliance Leadership order the fleet to launch another nuclear attack and send even more reinforcments, and more nukes to try again. This isn't a small radical faction. These are the leaders of The Earth Alliance ordering it. Like other anon said they don't even launch the nukes at Genesis or Jachin Du which could be argued as legit military targets. They just fire them at Plants again!

>>22637778
Patrick Zala did give the EA an out. He said he would attack Earth if they EA continued with their nuclear assault after the destruction of their Lunar Base.

>EA attacks Zaft
>Zaft destroys EA lunar base
>EA continues their nuclear attack
>Earth is targetted
>EA surprised Pikachu face

>>22637785
The weird thing I don't get about the final battle is that Team Lacus attacks Genesis *before* Zala decides to target Earth. Team Lacus should have been focused on disabling the attacking EA fleet. They were literally the cause of Everything.

>>22637827
Imagine Athrun busting into the Zaft control room

>Athrun: Don't target Earth with Genesis!!!
>Patrick: We haven't. We're finishing off leftover EA forces. Wtf are you doing son?
>Athrun: Uhhh...well I thought things would be different when I got here.

>>22637121
They are designed to be highest race even among coordinators and supposed to lead and guide humanity atleast for Lacus while since Kira killed Orphee then Kira is highest among male coordinator race so both are the Queen and King of Coordinator should as well be King and Queen of CE world if they decide to rule humanity

>>22637285
Athrun&Meyrin makes more sense with Freedom, since they work together and live together during missions. I mean, it's logical and normal that you develop feelings for someone who you see on a regular basis (not yo say everyday) and you see her value: intelligent, kind, brave, cheerful, etc. It had been really stupid showing that they were a couple in the movie because it would have been forced as fuck, but I wouldn't have been surprised if in the movie appeared a scene with Athrun showing a kind of romantic interaction with Meyrin, knowing that they are together almost all the time.

>>22637827
They were aiming to take out Genesis regardless. They'd already destroyed the EA Flagship and the Nuclear squads by then.

>>22637746
>>22637753

This is the equivalent of Russia destroying every other nation on Earth except Russia due to the actions of the British.

>>22638738
Nuking Britain is nuking entire world? Lmao.

>>22638897
Genesis on Earth which is what Patrick was going to do and what you seem to be supporting is the same thing as nuking the entire world. If it fired at Washington it wouldn't just destroy EA's capital it would kill all life on Earth and render it uninhabitable

>>22639156
Nuking a Plant Colony cylinder renders all life in the Colony dead. What's your point? Both sides crossed the point of no return.

>>22638734
>They were aiming to take out Genesis regardless. They'd already destroyed the EA Flagship and the Nuclear squads by then.

Only after the EA launched another wave of nukes. And you can see in another scene that the EA were loading more nukes and bringing more nukes with their reinforcements earlier. The EA was NOT backing down even if Earth was targeted. They didn't care and were willing to let Earth get hit if it meant destroying Plant. At that point, the people you should blaming is the EA and not Patrick Zala.

Natarle on the Dominion even asks why they are wasting time trying to nuke Plant colonies when they should be targeting Genesis with their weapons since that's the biggest threat. Director Azrael has no real response, and throws a hissy fit just telling Natarle to shut up and obey orders.

>>22639382
Their reinforcements got blown up by Genesis. By the final episode when they're going after Genesis, there were no more nuclear strikes possible at the moment, other than maybe the vague threat that probably had more somewhere on Earth they could eventually send up. Azrael was dead and their flagship Dominion was destroyed, as were their 3 strongest mobile suits and the other admirals on the Agamemnon class ships. The only EA forces left in the final episode are just assorted Nelson and Drake ships and some Dagger's who are just back and forthing between the Zaft forces and are pretty much no real threat and are likely fighting because the command chain felt into disarray but they're already behind the Zaft lines. All their flag officers are dead so there's nobody even to surrender at that point (not that Patrick would accept one even if they did). They call for a ceasefire at the end of the episode which is probably when they finally got line to someone back on Earth with the authority to do so.

EA were the worse of the two sides but at that point they're completely neutralized as a threat to Plant for the moment, and Patrick was the immediate problem. They could figure out how to berate the EA for their actions later. Plus even if Patrick had the moral high ground over EA they still couldn't allow him to destroy the Earth even if EA cocked up their own situation. It's not like Lacus Clyne is just gonna throw her hands up and decide Earth can be destroyed because it's only "fair"

>>22639439
>Plus even if Patrick had the moral high ground over EA they still couldn't allow him to destroy the Earth even if EA cocked up their own situation. It's not like Lacus Clyne is just gonna throw her hands up and decide Earth can be destroyed because it's only "fair"

Yeah I don't know why is suddenly confusing. The TSA's goal was to stop the war and stop both sides from wiping each other out. So they targeted the nukes and Genesis with equal priority. They don't really care who started what or who's genodical final solution is more "justified". They want a ceasefire, not to help one side destroy the other.

>>22639439
>Their reinforcements got blown up by Genesis.
Watch the episode again. Only half of the reinforcement fleet got blown up. The rest were still coming with more nukes.

Also The problem you are forgetting is that Patrick Zala did give them an out. He said he wouldn't attack Earth...unless the EA kept attacking Plants after their moon base was destroyed. What did the EA do after the moon base was blown up? The EA then kept attacking.

You need to stop thinking an audience member with knowledge of everything and think like a character in the show. All Patrick knows is that he has demonstrated the power of Genesis with a long range blast to the moon. He gave the EA a chance to leave. They did not. In fact, they launched a THIRD nuclear missile attack at Plant even after you showed Genesis to them. Patrick does not know the status of ALL nukes in the EA fleet. All he knows is that the EA fleet is FANATICAL and do not give AF about earth getting shot. Zaft blew up half their fleet. They won't back down. Zaft blew up their moon base and half their reinforcement fleet. EA won't back down and charges even harder.

>>22639442
>So they targeted the nukes and Genesis with equal priority.
And by making that choice, Team Lacus did neither objective effectively. By splitting their tiny force of 3 ships, they became ineffective. They needed to keep their forces together and choose to stop either the EA OR ZAFT. Not Both.

>>22639460
And they can't do that as that defeats the entire purpose of their mission. If they focus on one then the other will either destroy Earth or destroy the Plants. And in the end they managed to stop both so that was obviously the right call there.

>>22639456
Patrick had already made it clear well before the episode that he wanted all Naturals dead. He probably doesn't know nor care how many nukes they have left. Even if Azrael somehow surrendered, which he'd never do Patrick would have just tried to fire Genesis at the Earth anyway. He ends up trying to fire through their own troops while screaming like a lunatic about how all Naturals need to die. He's not sane anymore.

LMAO. MAN........ some of you don't even remember the show at all. Patrick Zala's staff didn't shoot him because he wanted to fire Genesis at Earth. They only shot him because he wanted to fire Genesis while they STILL had ZAFT troops in the line of fire of Genesis. The Earth Alliance fleet had broken through ZAFT final defense lines and were in range to destroy everything with more nukes. The Earth Alliance also had reinforcements coming which were carrying more nukes. ZAFT was getting their asses kicked in the conventional war, and about to lose to Earth Forces. That's why Patrick wanted to fire Genesis before it was too late. ZAFT was losing.

>>22639465
>Patrick had already made it clear well before the episode that he wanted all Naturals dead.
Uh no. Patrick is obsessed with protecting PLANT colonies because he lost his wife in a nuclear missile attack. The fact that Azrael wants to nuke PLANTS as top priority above military targets is what sets off Patrick.

>>22639463
>>22639442

Team Kira failed at both goals.

-The EA nuclear carriers weren't all destroyed.

-EA fleet reinforcements arrived with more nukes

-Athrun arrived too late to stop Genesis from firing or save his father.

-Athrun tried to commit suicide

-Both Freedom and Justice were destroyed or damaged beyond reasonable repair

-Both Meteors were destroyed

-Three Ships Alliance was wrecked and couldn't continue fighting. They couldn't do anymore.

-ZAFT forces in full retreat and wrecked

Honestly I have no clue why the EA fleet just didn't continue with one final push and take over ZAFT. We see the EA fleet in the final credits with a substantial force still available. It's like everyone stopped fighting because the credits started rolling lol.

Technically the EA won.

>>22639488
>Honestly I have no clue why the EA fleet just didn't continue with one final push and take over ZAFT. We see the EA fleet in the final credits with a substantial force still available.

Azrael and all the Blue Cosmos connected admirals were dead. The people left in charge were the ones that just wanted the whole thing to stop so they could go home and we're the ones seething at a bunch of Space Colonies that had little to do with Earth.

>>22639483
When Athrun confronts him in episode 40 he says straight up to Athrun's face that he wants to kill every last Natural and that's how he'll end the war. Even earlier in episode 19 when he's talking with Lacus's father he's giving him speeches about how Natural's are inferior life forms, Coordinators are the future and they have no need for Naturals to exist in their world and any birthing problems will be solved somehow with Coodinator superiority.

Patrick was itching for a chance to exterminate Naturals, Azrael just gave him an excuse. An excuse he wouldn't have even had if Rau wasn't there.

>>22640126
>Azrael and all the Blue Cosmos connected admirals were dead.
Not all of them. The reinforcement fleet had them. Azrael had discussions and approval with Anti-coordinator Admirals back on Earth. They were still alive. We see him talking with them a few episodes earlier.

>>22640133
You are completely MISSING the context of the conversation. Patrick Zala is pissed. He sent his own son with a top secret nuclear powered Gundam to hunt down Freedom Gundam and prevent it from falling into enemy hands. He's worried that if it falls into the wrong hands that Naturals will get the ability to use nukes again and hit Plant. He trusted Athrun to handle this mission and protect Plant secrets.

Then what happens? Athrun comes back WITHOUT Justice or Freedom. Does he report failure or success? Nope. Athrun just starts talking about Philosophy and rambling about peace. He won't talk about his mission, and just starts repeating Lacus' exact talking points. Of course Patrick is going to be freaking pissed at his own son. Try to think of it from Patrick's perspective. Not only did Athrun possibly betray him, fail his mission, but also Patrick has to worry if he gave Justice to Lacus or The EA. Now Naturals will be able to possibly use nukes again. Athrun later admits that his father was just pissed off at him and wouldn't ordinarily kill all Naturals.

>>22640243
>Azrael had discussions and approval with Anti-coordinator Admirals back on Earth.

You mean the group of people he was talking to at the beginning of episode 45 who all told him nuking Plant over fixing the Earth was a stupid idea and that they never wanted the attack of Junius Seven in the first place but Azrael and Blue Cosmos went and did it on their own? Yeah Azrael somehow overrules them all because that's how CE seems to work but they were probably jumping to call a ceasefire the second they heard Azrael was dead.

>>22639488
Yeah I don't get it either. Zaft was defeated. Genesis blew up. Jachin Due was in ruins. Team Lacus was broken. The door was open to the EA fleet. They were 99% of the way to victory but they stopped. It would be like if the Federation stopped and didn't invade Zeon because reasons.

>>22640371
You need to understand. Lacus gave a speech. The war is over.


Anonymous

What was the name of this mech? I kinda forgot, heh

Vigna Ghina II<br>I daresay however I like the OG Vigna Ghina more. It reminds me a bit of suits like the Palace Athene or Hyaku Shiki or Bawoo, high performance, very obviously humanoid shape, but not an out and out twin-eye look.

Forgot my pic<br>I kind of feel just by looking at it someone was ithing to make an ebil Gundam beyond the Titans MkII or Psyco Gundam but the VGII doesn't cut it for me.

>>22629099
>This looks like some weird evil hybrid of the F-91 and Vigna Ghina
So how did this come about?

>>22629334
It's basically that thing in history when one group see something that another group has and thinks "oh yeah that's a pretty good idea" and copy it for themselves but they didn't have access to it or the exact data, so they approximate it and it's good enough or even better in some cases

>>22629334
Seems in the F91 prequel manga Crossbone vanguard managed to steal the F91 vital units

>>22629334
yeah they stole F91 top secret info and made the 'Gina II

>>22629338
Except that Axis absolutely had access to some Zeta Plan data, they have been cooperating and sharing tech with Anaheim for a long time by then. Specifically, the overall design is clearly derived from Zeta but the separation feature is most likely a successful version of what Prototype ZZ Gundam and Kappa/Sigma Gundam tried before ZZ elected to use a normal core block system.

>>22629334
Either stolen tech or a backroom deal, possibly both.

>>22633620
It wasn't anaheim itself. Anaheim engineers defected to neo zeon. Neo zeon unironically got more tech from the federation and Titans.

>>22633672
Yes there absolutely was. Luna Titanium Gamma was invented by Axis before being provided for Rick Dias and following machines. Speaking of, just look at Rick Dias's head sensor and compare it to the Gaza line's. Sure, there were defectors but Anaheim was happy to cooperate with Haman when it suited their interests, which was the majority of Zeta and still a big part of ZZ.

>>22629381
Captured is the word.
Feddies sent out their best but still couldn't stop the invasion.