Bivvy bags

Anyone got any experience with bivvy bags? I'm looking into buying one on the cheaper end. There's tyvek ultralight bags, there's heavier ones, weight isn't a huge concern for me personally but I like light stuff if it's reasonably durable. Rain and mosquitoes are my primary concerns, I'd like a face cover of some kind

>>2726610
>Anyone got any experience with bivvy bags?
Only tropical bags, which are basically bivies with some extra insulation and breathability.
The snugpak "jungle bag" sucks. Keeps the rain and theflies out, but because of that "put two together to make space for your nonexistens gf" gimmick they have, there's a 4cm gap between the two zippers that snakes or spiders can get in through. Not the kind of thing you want to figure out when you're in a tropical storm and a habu is searching for warmth...
The carinthia tropical bag is alright, and also waterproof enough for strong rain. Too warm for actual tropics, perfect for temperate climate and supposedly (haven't tried it yet) suitable for down to -40C with the Def4 inside it.

Personally, I wouldn't spend money on a classic (fully waterproof, non-insulated) bivy unless you're planning on going into a swamp or somewhere else where you might end up in a pool of water.

>>2726610
>starts raining
>confined to his bivvy
>have to just lie there
You didn’t think this through. They’re a meme.

>>2726610
I had the alpine something or another from outdoor research, but condensation was too much of a problem even with the fly down, so I returned it

>>2726630
Jokes on you, I'm into that shit!

>>2726623
You keep the tropen inside the def4.
I wouldn't recommend it down to -40, maybe -20-30 if the rest of your sleeping gear is good, but my personal experience is a bit off due to combining it with a FDF foam mat that only has a 2.0 R value.
-40 might work, but at that point you're surviving, not sleeping.

>>2726610
Rain is the entire fucking point of them. They are for cowboy camping. They are great if you don't feel like setting up a tent, check out a used military gore tek one I have one and it's great for basically everything. After 20 miles i simply don't feel like setting up a tent and can just instantly setup my sleep system mine also has a bug cover. Also it is king for setting up camp in slanted, cluttered, etc space.

>>2726630
I will crawl around the forest floor like a worm while it downpours on my bivvy bag and I am comfy and warm inside, and tentfags will seethe about it

>>2726950
Automod reminder: Please mark all spoilers for Denis' upcoming God Emperor of Dune.

I am a bot and this action was performed automatically.

>>2726610
I got one from a military surplus store and it's superb if a bit heavy/bulky. Perfect for uk weather

>>2726950
Oh, I am seething. And wearing fresh comfy changed clothes while it's pouring outside and sitting upright and stretching. Later I'm reading my book from an overhead light then sleeping in any configuration my body wants while my gear stays dry.

t. tent fag

>>2727360
Post a single image of you doing this. We all know you tentfags dont actually /out/.

>>2726922
>You keep the tropen inside the def4.
Why in that configuration? The Tropen is the bigger of the two, and the Def 4 fits rather tight on it's own already.

>>2727738
The manifacturer recommends as such.
Defence 4 has a water repellent finish, less volume might be better in such cold.
>>2726623
If you're referring to Cartinthia tropen, that's not a bivy, it's a sleeping bag with a mosquito net.
A bivouac sack is weatherproof and uninsulated.
>>2726922
What are some good, sanely priced mats for extreme cold?

>>2727738
Keeping the Tropen outside is like wearing your baselayer outside of your hardshell.
The Tropen is a warm weather bag. It's less concerned with keeping out drafts and allows water vapor to easily travel through it. Keeping it inside the bag allows the Tropen to more effectively add to the insulation of the Defense 4.
The Defense 4 should be sized to fit the Tropen inside of it, so if it's too tight, then you ordered too small of a size or you're trying to bring too much stuff into the bag with you.

>>2727740
You have a choice between eating in the rain and not eating in the rain, and anyone who’s done both knows what the right choice is.

And how would you get from your bivy into your poncho if it’s raining in the morning?

>>2727740
They won’t keep you dry.
Or maybe they’re not waterproof. It’s a little confusing.

>>2728969
>thinking that ponchos keep people dry in 2020+4
>thinking that umbrellas stop rain in 2030-6
>thinking that the roof of your car will keep precipitation away in 1900+124
ngmi
ngmi

>>2726630
>You didn’t think this through.
Nobody ever does, they're a fucking nightmare to sleep in, especially in the rain.
Can keep you less damp in a snowcave or tent in the rain, and keep you alive but uncomfortable if you're caught out in a storm.
But I'm sure that everyone that gets one thinking "this is my new home" only ever does it once.
I got mine for emergencies, and could count on one hand the number of trips it's been used on, none of them comfy.

There is not a single reason to carry one of these shitty coffins. You can get good quality aliexpress tents that weigh half a bivvy for like 100 bucks and you can actually sit up, cook, move around, eat, read, won't get fucked up by condensation and get your sleeping bag damp.

>>2726630
Yeah, miserable.

>>2728969
Aww, I see you had to run away to this thread to get support after getting BTFO'd in the other bivy thread.
It's not that confusing, you retarded anglos think the world is black and white, it's very simple, a poncho works as extra sheltering to help keep you dry, but it is *not* waterproof. It does *not* encase you, therefor it does *not* prevent splashback, and it obviously does *not* prevent streams from running into your sleeping spot during rain. A good tent or bivy thats true to their rating is waterproof within that rating. I tried to tell you this with the example between a drysack and a general backpack, but you were too retarded. Now leave this thread as well, and at least attempt to go outside.

>>2729414
>ponchos aren’t waterproof
This is why no one listens to non-Americans

>>2729414
>hurr durr btfod
That's all anyone needed to see you're retarded anon, you didn't have to keep typing

>>2729415
Entirely depends on the poncho. Also nice strawman, faggot.

>>2729427
Yeah, of course thats the furthest you managed to read.

>>2729430
Don’t just say someone’s wrong. Prove he’s wrong; show us some non-waterproof ponchos.

>>2729433
>prove he's
No, Im not spoonfeeding you, a redditor, pretending to not be that person when its so clearly you, because you have no experience with ponchos. You can take one look at some "waterproof" ponchos on amazon and check how many are actually waterproof. Even the ones that have waterproofing will have water coming through if they have the hood in the middle.

>>2729435
>no I won't back up anything I say
Then your opinion is worthless and will be discarded accordingly

>>2729435
>everyone is the same person!
No, there are a solid half dozen people letting you know how stupid you are. You’ll never live down that screen shot; it’s literally one of the dumbest things ever posted in /out/.

>>2729024
There's no way a bivy isn't lighter and smaller than a tent if made out of the same material. It's impossible. That's the use case, a bivy is an emergency shelter that's light and small so if you don't end up using it, it's not so bad to carry.

>>2729453
Yeah, except I did examplify it, so go back to plebbit now.
>>2729480
Ok, samefag. Run away again now.

>>2729435
>there’s no such thing as a waterproof poncho
They all have “hoods in the middle”

>>2729593
>they all have hoods in the middle
Don't know which one of you is the idiot, but that's not true.

>>2729593
If they have a protruding hood with a solid neck like the MLD poncho, they can be rolled closed.without issue.

>>2729594
This poncho is made out of a waterproof material, which as we’ve discussed =/= keeping you dry.

>>2729599
The MLD poncho is made of 20d/1.2oz silnylon, most likely with a hydrostatic head test value of 3,000mm. Unfortunately it won’t keep you dry because this is a waterproof fabric.

>>2729603
The trick is to use a material that is as far from waterproof as you can get. I go out in monsoon season wearing a DIY poncho of cheesecloth and cotton candy. I have never been wet.

>>2729593
They do not, faggot, youre just in a circle of non innovative ponchos. Jerven, Helsport, Dovre, etc. do not have the retarded middle hood.

>>2729639
Hahahahahha holy fucking shit hahahahahahahahaha!
I love everything about this!

>>2726610
There are cheap ass "bivvy" tents that have the same form but two poles to keep them off your body. I've used a cheap-o 3-season one from Amazon that worked just fine under a tree in the spring. But personally I wouldn't want a bivvy bag. Having your outer layer not kept off your body is a problem. It's just begging to wake up wet and covered in bug bites. If it's three seasons stuff you're doing, then whatever: you just want something between you and outside. But you need that something not to be touching you or it isn't offering you any real protection. The air between the covering and you is the protective environment that a tent is creating.

>>2729601
>waterproof material
>=/= keeping you dry
Boy are you just confusing waterproof and water resistant? It's made out of treated canvas, keeps the weather out really well - firsthand experience. I gave some of the trouble spots on mine an extra beeswax coating. It's not waterproof. It's water repellent at best. It won't keep me dry in a torrential downpour.

I have no idea what argument you're trying to make. Sounds like you have no concept of the difference between water repellent/resistant/proof desu.

>>2729642
Yeah, that functions as a poncho. Anything else? Did it blow your mind seeing innovation?

>>2729665
Not that anon but it doesn't, though. Put on a waterproof poncho some time and go trudge through the cold rain. You'll be fucking soaked. The humidity, condensation and sweat will have you begging for a cool, refreshing rain.

>>2729665
They do not, neverouts are braindead.

>>2729665
No. It’s a direct quote. See screen grab posted here: >>2728969

>>2729669
>umbrellas aren’t waterproof
Got it

>>2729673
An umbrella is much better for keeping you dry than a poncho, most of the time. There are situations when you need a rain poncho. Specifically blowing rain, when you'd rather endure the condensation and sweat than sideways water spraying you all over. But a light rain? I'll take an umbrella and stay much drier than a poncho 90% of the time. But waterproof material don't keep you dry anon. They prevent water from directly crossing a specific boundary but, unless you're wearing a full body-condom and have figure out how not to breath or perspire, rain isn't the only source of moisture on planet Earth.

>>2729669
>>2729670
Are you two near the equator or something? I've got a fully waterproof hunting set - coat and pants. Don't break a sweat in them (and no, no stationary hunting).

>>2729677
Well at the moment I'm in Florida, so yeah. But I've got a hard vinyl winter coat rated for -30 that I wear in Canada. It's great for sitting around at camp but if I get up to anything for an hour or more? I've straight taken that thing off at -11 and stripped down to my t-shirt because it gets so fucking hot and sweaty.

>>2729677
Fat people have been known to sweat in ponchos despite them being the most ventilated, least insulated option.

>>2729677
No, im in the north european region. Sweating has a lot to do with genetics if we dont consider obvious factors like being a fat fuck in general. It also depends on your pace. But you generally have to vent goretex clothing depending on outside temps, where this becomes an issue is in warmer climate where you're probably better off just getting soaked by the rain.

>>2729683
Also active people. Do you guys have some magical charms to ward off sweating when you are active? You understand that the reason it makes you thirsty is 'cuz your body has lost water, right? Where do you think the water went? It evaporated off your skin. If you're covered in waterproof material, it has no where to go. That's why the inside of your tent is wet in the morning (well, part of the reason).

>>2729671
Still have no idea what you're on about, anon. Sorry.

>>2729689
>Do you guys have some magical charms to ward off sweating when you are active?
The cold, and not wearing many layers in summer. Or are you covering yourself in plastics during the height of summer, and blaming the plastics?

>>2729689
>Do you guys have some magical charms to ward off sweating when you are active?
Yes. It’s called not being an enormous fat fuck and getting regular exercise. Have you ever heard the expression “without breaking a sweat?” It’s easier when it’s cold outside.

>You understand that the reason it makes you thirsty is 'cuz your body has lost water, right? Where do you think the water went?
Digestive system mostly, used for muscle function and digestion, but also the circulatory system.

>It evaporated off your skin.
Do you ever not sweat? What happens to the Mountain Dew you drank?

>>2729701
The entire conversation was about bivies and how they’re basically condensation traps. Some regard claimed they’re not designed to keep you dry. Some other retard pointed out that they’re made out of water to material, so they must be designed to keep you dry. Another retard claimed that things made from waterproof material aren’t necessarily designed to keep you dry, which is some king retard shit.

>>2729709
Thanks for the summary anon, but the guy I responded to there was talking about sweating from being active. I now do have the mental image of him jumping around the woods in his bivvy, which I think is the best thing to come out of this thread yet. All the horseshit about the items designed to keep you dry "not keeping you dry" (i.e. not keeping you -bone- dry) because "oh no I breathe and sweat a little" is also hilarious.

>>2729668
Yeah but it’s waterproof, so it designed to keep you dry?

>>2729779
“Unexpected weather”
“Protection from the elements”
>ahh, but it doesn’t say “waterproof!”
Pic rel

>>2729801
Excatly, it doesnt say waterproof, you did it! You figured it out!

>>2729818
What did they mean by this?
>5000mm
What is that?

>>2729832
Ahh, I see you need another lesson. Thats the amount of water it would take before the fabric would begin to let water through.

>>2729906
Why would they list the HH test value? Inb4 5000mm isn’t waterproof.

>>2729926
To give a general idea as to how much rain it can be exposed to before leaking through.

>>2729931
>no shelters are waterproof
You’re a child

>>2729926
Because it’s a waterproof material. The other Anon is literally retarded.
>b-but it will wet out.
Shut up, fag.

>>2729934
Every time I see someone unironically say "it will wet out" I get an uneasy feeling that they're a piss fetishist looking for an excuse
>a-whoopsie, it looks like my sleeping bag """wetted out""" again
>wink
>slurp

>>2729932
Never said this, learn to read, nigger

>>2729953
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but that doesn’t mean 5,000mm fabrics aren’t waterproof. People usually mention wetting out with reference to waterproof-breathable jackets, when osmosis stops due to saturation.

>>2729642
Wrapped completely in a waterproof material, but his head is exposed so he’ll need another tarp. So why have a completely waterproof bivy in the first place?

>>2730064
>Wrapped completely in a waterproof material, but his head is exposed so he’ll need another tarp. So why have a completely waterproof bivy in the first place?
To protect from dew and splashback. But this is also why a bivy like that is intended to keep you dry, but isnt waterproof

>>2730064
It’s Europeans being European (aka retarded). $270 for a silnylon tarp is laughable.

>>2730064
>Wrapped completely in a waterproof material, but his head is exposed so he’ll need another tarp. So why have a completely waterproof bivy in the first place?
The Jerven bags and similar are mostly for hunting/shooting LARP activities where you remain stationary for a long time. Their design as a bivvy/tarp/poncho seems a bit more secondary to the goal of being a jack of all trades.

>>2730088
The x-trem is insulated with primaloft you braindead moron, it's not comparable to the bare ponchos you find on amazon. Jesus christ, try to use your brain.

>>2730116
>insulated shelter
Europeans are a laugh riot.

>>2730145
They are quite literally stalking bags for when you're waiting for deer or female joggers.
They aren't really for regular camping.

>>2730145
Neverouts at it again. Its an incredible popular product with hunters and people that want extra warmt for their sleeping bag. Please just stop talking, youve exposed yourself time and time again as a fool.

>>2730221
But not in the rain, because it’s made of waterproof material, which as we all know isn’t designed to keep you dry, right?

>>2730237
Never said that, again this shows that youre missing the fundamental difference because youre too busy being stupid. It's made of waterproof material to keep you dry, but the product itself is not waterproof. Many items can be made with waterproof material, f.ex. hiking boots, to keep you dry, but boots are not waterproof.

>>2730244
>a bulletproof vest isn't bulletproof because the bullets could be fired from inside your body
>you better not call it bulletproof
Your autism is showing

>>2730247
We're not talking about "bulletproof" vests, the fact that you have to you have to jump to something completely different does shows how retarded you are. But sure, its very fitting that you use terms like bulletproof vest, which is retard talk only 80IQ cops and other mongoloids manage to spew. Most people talk about plater carriers, what level plates, blast protection, soft/hard armor or ballistic armor. This is for the same reason, bulletproof is a misnomer, a term only used by shitty companies to sell to retards(you). Since bullets come in all shapes and sizes its stupid to ever refer to a vest as bulletproof, such a black and white statement is not used seriously for a product that isnt black or white. It's not like saying a shirt is fire retardent. Youll see the same with *ballistic* helmet, no serious company advertise them as bulletproof helmets. They advertise them as ballistic helmets with their rating. Seriously, try to find Gentex, Team Wendy, Crye, or any other serious company using the term bulletproof for their ballistic armor.

>>2730255
>proves the point
Ask me how I know your mom has the autism puzzle shit as a tramp stamp

>>2730273
Yeah, at least you acknowledge that I proved you wrong. Whats that? Couldnt find a serious company using bulletproof either? Isnt it weird how neither Helsport used waterproof in their advertisement. Hahaha, you neverouts never fail to entertain.

>>2730274
>heh, looks like I win ten internets
>hahaha
Pretty cringey shit, tism timmy

>>2730282
Yeah, didnt think so, nothing. You were wrong, again and again and again. And the last thing you can do is throw around buzzwords you learned from lurking 4chan too much. Go outside, faggot. Learn and grown. Dont be a roomdweller.

>>2726610
Marine Corps bivy if you want a face net. MSS bivy doesn't have the net but might be cheaper.

>>2730283
>the retard continues to do his flappy-arm victory dance, completely oblivious to the fact that he missed the point entirely
Sad, really

>>2730286
Jesus, at least try to greentext like youre not straight from reddit, neverout. Stay seething. Must been tough knowing your little "bulletproof" argument turned out to expose you this bad.

>>2729415
Two days later, he's still seething over this comment

>>2730291
Who are you talking to? You're the only one here..

>>2730274
>Isnt it weird how neither Helsport used waterproof in their advertisement
3000mm, so their “waterproof” (their words) rain gear, that’s designed to keep you dry, will wet out faster than their non-waterproof poncho that isn’t designed to keep you dry… or something. I can’t keep track of your retardation.

>>2730294
>everyone is the same person, I swear
I keep saying the board needs post IDs; it would (maybe) cut down on autofellating spergs insisting that only one person could ever think they're full of shit

>>2730288

>Reddit bad

Go back to /pol/.

/out/ is a fucking toilet compared to r/CampingandHiking, and that’s just a surface level normie sub.

The more specific subs have great content.

Way better than anything you can get here.

>nice Reddit spacing

Thanks!

>>2730319
It must be said that the updoot system is retarded and gives obnoxious fags an overblown sense of importance, but it is a good source of legitimate information (in the right boards).

>>2730315
Thats the poncho, not the fjellduk tarp. Try again.

>>2730319
Good to hear you prefer your retard hub, I am not surprised.

>>2730392
>goalposts: moved
This is why nobody takes you seriously

>>2730398
Youre the one moving it, the discussion was about bivys and why theyre not waterproof.
>y-yeha well here's a poncho
You're the one so retarded youve forgotten what this is about, youre just looking for the next escape. The x-trem functions as a bivy, but it is not advertised as waterproof for that purpose. The poncho you posted does not function as a bivy, hence why its not advertised under the fjellduk line.

>>2730401
Damn, I’ve never seen so much cope. 5000mm fabric is waterproof. Your LARP gear is made of waterproof material. If it weren’t meant to be waterproof, it would be made from something else.

>>2730436
Again, you fail to understand whats being said, even when it was already clarified here >>2730244 you continue to say the same thing. You were wrong. Now put on a "bulletproof" helmet and shoot yourself with 7.62. Do the world a favor, and lead my example.

>>2730437
As a reminder, there are multiple anons in the thread, you missed the point of the "bulletproof" example, people will continue to refer to rain gear as waterproof, and no amount of screeching on your part will change that.

>>2730437
>waterproof boots gear isn’t waterproof
Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
And I’ll refer you to >>2729415

>>2729414
>a poncho works as extra sheltering to help keep you dry, but it is *not* waterproof
Your favorite LARP brand lists their poncho as “waterproof”

>A good tent or bivy thats true to their rating is waterproof within that rating.
The railing on the insulated LARP poncho is 5000mm but you said it’s not waterproof because it’s not advertised as such. So what actually matters: the rating or the advertisement?

>>2730462
Again, this has already been clarified >>2730437 you need to learn how to read and then absorb what youve read.
>>2730460
Making up quotes again so you can strawman I see, no surprise there.
>>2730457
The point is that no serious company will call their product bulletproof. I also noticed youre now refering to rain gear, which again is generalizing it to something I havent said. I said bivys. Its clear why you too struggle with this.

>>2730482
>making up quotes.
Don’t make me screen shot what you wrote. Copy pasted:
>Many items can be made with waterproof material, f.ex. hiking boots, to keep you dry, but boots are not waterproof.
Did you mean to say they’re not submersible?

>>2730485
Yes, thats the actual quote. Dont make up stuff.

>>2730482
This idiot really will die on the hill of "you didn't use the exact words I like to describe a thing"

>>2730492
Thats not what the hill was about to begin with, its you retards who need constant clarification.

>>2730492
No, he thinks items made from waterproof material are not waterproof because he has a very narrow, extremely specific definition of waterproof that his Autism won’t stray from. I think the other Anon brought up a good point; Waterproof Fag is equating “waterproof” with “submersible.” He even stated that boots made from waterproof material aren’t waterproof. I keep a pair of rubber boots in my work truck. They are made of a waterproof material (neoprene or something; typical rubber boots) to keep my feet dry. They work. My feet don’t get wet. Yet somehow, according to Waterproof Fag, they aren’t waterproof

>>2730496
>you didn't use the right words to describe the hill
Fucking christ, someone give him his special earmuffs so he can turn the octupus toy back to the happy face

>>2730498
They are indeed not waterproof, they are meant to keep you dry. Im not a waterproof fag, I'm the only person here not retarded.
>>2730502
I dont play with toys, I go outside, hence why I know more than you.

>>2730507
They take in water without a cover.

>>2730512
In other words they’re not submersible.

>>2730514
Not that either, no. But they also let in rain unless covered

>>2730503
>I go outside
Sperging out over the words anons use to describe gear is obnoxious, but now you're just lying
>I was going to go out but I had a panic attack because my neighbor said he was cleaning the sidewalk and clearly you can't walk on the side of it so you can't call it a sidewalk

>>2730529
Try to be patient. Waterproof Fag has autism.

>>2730529
sidewalk is one word for a reason, precisely because it's not a side walk.
Wanna make another example you get absolutely BTFO'd on? First waterproof, then bulletproof, now sidewalk. Just loss after loss after loss..

>>2730592
>insisting everyone is the same person
>delcaring your own argument as BTFOing someone else's
Sucking your own dick won't make you correct, or less mentally challenged

>>2730592
sidewalk (n.) "path for pedestrians on the side of a street," 1721, from side (adj.) + walk (n.).

>>2730604
>telling yourself you didnt get BTFO'd when you're off-topic
lel
>>2730611
Yeah, notice how the words are together. Hence why I said:
>sidewalk is one word for a reason, precisely because it's not a side walk.
I understand anglos struggle with this concept as theyre really just frenchmen, but most germanic languages compose a word out of two or more compounds when talking about a single concept. Again, you get BTFO'd because you arent even able to read. You have no knowledge of outdoors, weapons, and now youve proven to not know a single thing about language. This is why reddit is so perfect for you, as you have admitted. It is the place of talking without expertise.

>>2730605
I kind of want to make a gofundme for the guy at this point, I bet his mom has a tough time taking care of the bills by herself
>sweetie, do you think you could fill out that application for walmart we talked about
>IT'S NOT AN APPLICATION MOM YOU DON'T APPLY IT GAWWWWD

>>2730631
>>2730631
>projecting all these things on me
Not that anon. I quoted the most basic etymology at you purely in response to the "sidewalk is not a side walk" nonsense, which very literally also includes "side of the street". Funnily enough I'm a linguist and get paid for this shit. You are severely autistic and completely out of your depth.

>>2730638
Etymology is irrelevant when discussing modern usage, if you were an actual linguist you would know this.

>>2730634
>another off-topic example
And another proof you cant stick to the topic because youve been proven wrong several times. Thank you.

>>2730639
Absolutely wrong, but I see you're used to saying things that are manifestly false. Are you farming (you)s? Hard to believe someone can consistently be this stupid without it being an act.

>>2730641
Absolutely not wrong. A living language evolves indepedently of etymology, and this is very clear when we look at etymological roots from 2000 years ago up until today. Constant change.
Etymology is descriptive, not prescriptive.

>>2730643
>rubber boots aren’t waterproof

>>2730643
>language evolves
>just not in the way I don't like
>you can't call something waterproof because I don't like language evolving in that direction

>>2730647
Nope
>>2730650
Correct, I'm a strong purist when it comes to certain languages.

>>2730655
>I'm a strong purist
Not strong enough. People will call shit what they want to call it and not give a single fuck about your opinion on the matter.

>>2730691
His opinion is “everyone is wrong except me.”
>nuh uh!
Everyone agrees that rubber boots and ponchos are waterproof and will keep you dry.

>>2730737
I also have a waterproof bivy that I use to stay dry. It's the US issue one too, so I piss off all sorts of autists with it.

>>2730691
Yes, unfortunately. Thats why democracy is so flawed, its mob mentality even when the mob is wrong and have no sense of culture, like right now.

>>2730643
>A living language evolves indepedently of etymology
That doesn't mean etymology is "irrelevant when discussing modern usage". Nice new goalposts though.
>Etymology is descriptive, not prescriptive.
Sure, now refer back to the example I cited.

i've got the 3ful tyvek bivvy. its pretty good, i often pair it with a tarp to keep the rain off since it can't handle full on rain. keeps the sleeping bag dry and keeps the wind out though. good for cowboy camps if its defo going to be dry overnight. wish it had a bug hood though

>>2730787
You argue like a woman, where reality is what you want it to be and nothing matters except for your feelings.

>>2730804
>That doesn't mean etymology is "irrelevant when discussing modern usage"
It does, it has bo bearing on contemporary of future use.
>Nice new goalposts though.
Literally no new goalpost is set, im explaining to you why youre wrong. Perhaps stop using buzzwords blindly l, and start reading and understanding whats going on. Youre clearly larping as someone who knows anything about language

>>2730806
Yeah yeah, leave the 2016 wannabe Ben Shapiro talk in the trash where it belongs. So cringe.

>>2730825
>nooo there's no way you can look at the past to explain the present, that's completely irrelevant and wrong! you are larping!!
So far up your own ass, it'd take a crowbar to get you unstuck.

>>2730844
To be descriptive, sure, but to be prescriptive, no. Which is why etymology is irrelevant. 99%+ of people are unaware of etymology in daily use, thus again, its irrelevant.

>>2730872
>because people don't actively think about etymology means the processes involved have no bearing on daily use, because: I pulled this out of my ass
Alright, I think you've disqualified yourself enough. This is just funny at this point. Have a good one, anon.

>>2730879
>doesnt refute it
Lol, as expected from people not knowing a thing.

>>2730805
very nice, im waiting for mine to come through. Its so cheap compared to everything on the market. I plan to use it during winter and alpine climbs. Any word on how roomy it is? im wondering if I could fit 2 quilts and a foam mat in there without squeezing the insulation

>>2729024
In NZ we carry them in case we’re caught out unexpectedly. They’re uncomfortable af, but better than a night in the rain or snow.
99% of the time it’s a night in a back country hut with a fire. Rare to see anyone except on the most popular walks.

>>2726610
the only thing a bivy bag is good for is sparing some poor EMS worker the trouble of stuffing your bloated carcass into a body bag because it's already inside one

>>2731880
This, bivvys are very dangerous. My uncle used one in the rain and he didn't know that waterproof meant not waterproof; he drowned

>>2726610
US MILITARY BIVVYS
"SLEEPING SYSTEM"
OMG. i dont camp regularly now but me and an old friend scored under 50$ bivvy sacks easily.
as we tested them out, we realized they were OP as FUCKK - goretex, camo, 0 condensation, rough, easy to stuff in pack. rain tested and completely viable. I took it far and camped on the california coast with them without any sleeping bag - i just had an emergency blanket and a pad - i got SO DAMN COLD but it was survivable. also that night there were dozens of mice that bit at the bag and the open area at the top. i forget if i needed it to be open in order to breathe better or w/e. i cant remember, sorry. but yeah, in full rain you can take these out and hop in with your bag and pad and not be worried in teh slightest.

>>2732840
Woodland MSS bivy is peak aesthetics

>>2726610
I just did an over night campout with an SOL Emergency Bivvy and it was okay, if you're in 50f+ it should work pretty well for you but wear layers of course.


Weird barefoot climbing shoes

Anonymous

Apparently Saltic is making a "barefoot" kind of climbing shoe, the model is called "Eliot". <br>Do you think acceptable precision can be achieved with such a seemingly wide tip?

>>2727737
Looks interesting. I use barefoot shoes whenever I can, but didn't think there was climbing one too. I use the cheapest Decathlon shoes for indoor boulder and a fivefingers for via ferrata.

>>2727737
is that them? They look like regular climbing shoes. Barefoot makes me think that it fits like a glove but on your feet... which would be awful on a climbing shoe because the whole point of the reinforced toe is so you can distribute focused pressure across the bottom of your foot and not concentrate it all on one unsupported toe.

>>2727737
Anyone that's not completely new to climbing and takes it somewhat seriously will wear their climbing shoes barefoot anyway so I don't see the point of this. Regardless, I'm going to the local bouldering gym and stopping for a Thai massage on the way, hopefully I can get a hand job at the minimum.

>>2727737
So in other words a less "technical" climbing shoe. Calling it "barefoot" is a bullshit marketing gimmick.

>>2727864
>a barefoot shoe
>barefoot shoe?
>yes barefoot shoe
>barefoot.
>yeees
>shoe.
>yes.
>but...
>shut up
>ok how much is it
>180$
>...
>...
>kill yourself
>i will

>>2727882
Not the same shoe as in my OP post, but I have used the ones in your post and they satisfy me. Payed a tad less than that, by the way.
Be sure to consult the size chart and take a well fitting pair if you do buy them.
>>2727846
Yes, it's those, picrel. They must have made some kind of compromise for them to be usable on walls, "barefoot" after all is just marketing.
>https://barefootsaltic.cz/produkt/<wbr>eliot-barefoot-climbing
>>2727801
>cheapest Decathlon shoes for indoor boulder
What model? How long have you been climbing for and what difficulty?

>>2727737
is it just really soft rubber for them to call it "barefoot"? are these even climbing shoes or approach shoes? i feel like la sportiva's no edge range would do the exact same thing but a lot lot better, i dont see any advantage of the foot shape when tighter shoes can still comfortable and precise, these would probably just have a shit ton of air gaps in them especially on the outer edge

>>2727889
>What model? How long have you been climbing for and what difficulty?
Simond First Klimb. I stared it in december and didn't went too many times so pretty low difficulty.

>>2727946
I think it's mostly the more anatomic toebox.
>>2727946
Wish I could try them so I could say for sure, am a general proponent of anatomical designs. I'll write here if I get around to do so.

>>2727737
They look like they might be a decent crack shoe and maybe passable as a slab shoe and absolute shit for anything else.

>>2728350
I'm interested in reading your argument.

>>2728352
NTA but I get what he’s laying down. For crack (hand/fist size cracks) I’ve always thought some Vans with climbing rubber resoles would be one of if not the perfect shoes for such a task. These shoes just have a lot of rubber, flat footed (not rounded for edges like traditional climbing shoes or even pointed like super gnar v15 shoes) and would give pretty good area to just slap a foot in the crack or on a wall and get the purchase you need with the added bonus of your little toesies not hurting so much. Toe fatigue is real man!! The area/purchase argument applies to slab too (though not hard slab as by then you’re abusing the edges God/the FA’ers provide you.

They'd be okay for bouldering I guess, but climbing is not a natural activity it's gear assisted and good stiff shoes are part of that gear. You really don't want to load your tendons all.day in your meme shoes.

>>2729543
Rubber compound seems to be the same as other Saltics.

>>2727737
Those honestly don't look very foot shaped to me. Mad rock Phoenix is best for wide feet

>>2731793
>Mad rock
How much do you downsize Mad Rocks for an tight/performance fit? The new Sharks look like they would fit my footshape and needs for indoor bouldering. It's rare to find MR's in store in EU though so cant try them on.

>>2727737
Yeah this is a dumb idea. But I think it'll serve a niche for some people.
Options are always good to have, not everyone wants to scrunch their foot into a climbing shoe.


> catch a flat tire
> get a repair kit
> get the inner tube out
> find the hole
> seal it
> use a mini hand pump to inflate the tube
> pump for like 10 minutes
> still flat
mini pumps are a meme and presta valves are a work of satan

>>2727806
>mini pumps are a meme
They're inferior to every other pump, only useful for repairs on the go. Get one where the actual pump handle is attached with a rubber hose so you can move it freely. Much less retarded design.
>and presta valves are a work of satan
True.

>>2727806
>get a flat
>contemplate changing to your spare wheel but fuck no
>take out pic related, fix it in 5min and throw the useless co2 cartridges away
>fill it with 12v compressor
>drive away

>>2727806
>I can't inflate a tire bloo bloo bloo
Skill issue. Any 4chins poster worth his salt should be extremely capable when it comes to short-stroke pumping action

>>2727865
i fixed it already. the issue was the presta valve being a dogshit piece of construction and i had to use an adapter for it
also kill yourself

>>2727886
>retard used the wrong end on the pump and blames the valve

only on 4chan dot org slash out

>>2727886
>i had to use an adapter for it
fucksake.
https://youtu.be/I6J8D0RLmFo?si=48J<wbr>4TPnYl-iFCle6
Switch to tubeless too.

>>2727806
I once pumped a car tired with a mini pump
it was stupid and I was retarded

>Gets you back on the bike within minutes
You should really replace the inner with a new one after, but I always carry this stuff with me when cycling, has gotten me (and broken down strangers on the road) out of plenty of shit situations. 5€, you'd have to be a retard to fuck up using it and it means I don't have to do a half hour repair job on the side of the road for a minor puncture.

>>2731608
Why wait for a puncture in the first place?
Ditch the tubes.
Carry one for an emergency spare if you’re paranoid or 6 gorillion km from home.


I own a piece of land that is connected by a county road, and these amish fucks have recently started moving in near the road and they fucking DUG A 5 FOOT TRENCH IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COUNTY ROAD WITH SOME GAY PRIVATE CONSTRUCTION CREW AND IT IS UNPASSABLE can I call the law on these retards I want to actually be able to access my land....

>>2727211
>Amish play "kick the autistic" too
based buggybois

have you tried talking yo them, before asking a tibetian fly fishing forum if you should call the pigs?

>>2727214
Considering blocking a county road is at least a misdemeanor they won't be enjoying the game for much longer, state police game and is currently forcing them to refill the hole get fucked amishtards
>>2727218
How am I supposed to talk to them when there is an actual fucking ww2 style trench in the way

>>2727219
just how massively fat are you?

>>2727219
>5ft trench
you cant jump that?
I'm with >>2727220 you sound fat and whiny. go ahead, get into a war with your neighbours. sounds like you'll have a lot of fun with that

Contrary to popular opinion, the Amish are NOT the humble people that they are portrayed as on the silver screen. In reality they are cowardly and ignorant, opting to hide behind their belief system when confronted with the truth. They actively misuse pesticides and practice agricultural methods that have since been proven to be harmful for the environment and long term health of the land. They mistreat animals to the point of torturing them for not making quotas. They also get huge tax breaks for their gay beliefs and to top it off they are incredibly aggressive towards outsiders in an attempt to ruin non Amish farmers and upsell their product. They also lie about their products as being organic, while they use 1800s arsenic pesticides. Seriously fuck the Amish but also watch yourself, they are vindictive, aggressive, slimely freaks

>>2727222
I sorry, I can't hear you over your wheezing.

>>2727225
Amish are just rural jews
>t. live in a heavily Amish community

>>2727211
I hope the Amish rape your asshole you fat faggot

>>2727225
And they also shelter child molesters.

>>2727211
>everyone in this thread defending cult freaks who sneer on outsiders, on par with ortho jews
Very bizarre. Start by asking your local authorities about it, not using emergency numbers obviously

>>2727368
>>2727225
this because Amish are one grade under Jews for the biggest pieces of shit out there. At this point I don't think they care at all about traditional values, it's all about doing what the fuck I wanna do and no one's going to stop me. they use phones and computers it's not about morals or values anymore. biggest assholes I have ever met, and their children are demons. from personal encounters of course

>>2727211
Are they actually constructing something? Drain culvert under the road perhaps? It's very possible they are doing legal construction. Start with just asking them. If they aren't doing legitimate business then make it clear you will not be denied access to your property, especially off a county road, and how difficult they want that process to be is entirely up to them.

>>2727211
I can't stop laughing at your pic.

>>2727211
>instead of talking to them or doing my own research, I'm going to impotantly bitch on a Lithuanian candle making forum
Not only are you a fat fuck, but you're a faggot too

>>2730353
>expecting fat fuck OP to pick up a shovel
lol.

>>2727531
Orthodox jews are less hated that zionists like yourself, and there's nothing wrong with "sneering at outsiders" as you put it

>>2730374
I'm not jewish, so I'm an outsider to them.
Hence, they do not like me.
Weird cuckhold mindset to like somebody who hates you, can't relate

>>2730383
You have no community of your own, that's why you can't relate

>>2727211
Twiiiist: it wasn't buggyheebs, it was OP's internet provider, they sent mailers out warning about the scheduled cut and cable work 3 months ahead of time, but OP if too fat to remember.

>>2727225
> harmful to the environment
this is topkek. modern farming pumps chemicals into the waterways, destroys native species that are "pests" and also tortures animals. just because the amish don't like you're interracial family doesn't mean you have to hate them back. take the high road(around the trench they dug)

>>2727225
This post was obviously written by Jewish hands. Made me love the Amish even more.

My buddy lives in outside of Lancaster and the local Amheebs have stolen his dog twice for their puppy mill. The first time she came back on her own with a chewed up halter rope around her neck. The second time the cops found her tied to a shed with a tin can around her snout to keep her quiet. I say fuck ‘em.

>>2732665
Do amish have guns? Seems pretty easy to solve if they can't use technology

>>2732698
They do use technology. They use power tools, computers, the internet, everything. They just say it's "off grid" because they run it off a generator.

>>2727225
Amish are great believers in incest, domestic violence/abuse and rape. They are based for keeping to their beliefs and ways as well as they have and these sorts of people/communities will survive upheaval. But like all other religious sects they devolve into the dark desires and power.
t. ex-amish, got a away thanks to my dad figuring things out, but I got abused and still feel confused about them

>>2732698
They tend to be "protected", they are well known for their abuse and other fuckery and yet little is done about it.
And they do have guns, basic shotguns/rifles but no pistols. Most aren't keen on them and/or hunting but there'll be someone to balance them majority that does know and will shoot you.

>>2732644
son, if you can't read that, it's you who can't read english...

>>2727225
SAY THAT TO MY FACE AND NOT ON THE INTERNET!!!


Is pepper spray any good against wolves or dogs?

What can you do about wild boars?

How about beavers?

>>2727920
Beavers are immune to all attacks.

>>2727920
I relentlessly mock the use of pepper spray for bears. But I actually know it's quite effective for dogs. And I suspect it would be similarly effective for wolves.
No clue about wild swine. But I've been attacked by a domesticated sow protecting her piglets. And the only thing that saved my leg was my father breaking an axe handle over her head. She lived, but was kinda retarded and clumsy for the rest of her life.
I wouldn't be surprised if pepper spray was less effective on wild boars

>>2727927
>I relentlessly mock the use of pepper spray for bears
Why? its def worked for some people. better than nothing.

>>2727930
It probably works for predatory attacks because predators seek easy kills.
But for defensive encounters, particularly if cubs are involved its next to useless.
I think a large body of the research on it was it simply being deployed on false charges

>>2727932
>defensive encounters, particularly if cubs are involved its next to useless
This guy got attacked by a sow with 2 cubs. bear spray saved his life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2N<wbr>P0nzNv-0

>>2727920
Why would you fight beavers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHH<wbr>pYXQyQO4

>>2727932
>But for defensive encounters, particularly if cubs are involved its next to useless.
bears are not that smart, if you blind them they will get confused and freak out, not coldly continue attacking

maybe if he already bite you its over, but otherwise you should be fine

>>2729307
Great. You have an anecdote. What’s your point? You can find anecdotes of all sorts of outcomes for grizzly encounters. Nothing works 100% of the time even guns.

>>2727920
>Is pepper spray any good against wolves or dogs?
Yes, but it doesn't stop them. Just makes their eyes tear and their noses smell, so you have a better chance of escaping.
Sprays are unreliable though, as they can always lose pressure with no warning sign. The one time I had to use them (well, thought so, at least), that can only got a range of approx 30cm instead of the advertised 3m. That was a 4 months old can that had been kept in the house most of the time - carry one on your belt in the sun, and it'll lose pressure even quicker.
If you can afford it and aren't limited by retarded UK or US laws, carrying a pepper gun (a revolver or sawed of shotgun firing what's basically a cartridge where the bullet was replaced with a pepper / wax mixture) is much better.

But really, having encountered both wolves and boars a few times now, usually from distances below 5m, I never actually needed to fight them. Unleashed, badly trained dogs are a different matter, but fighting them off usually ends up with having to intimidate or fight the owner too, so I'd want something more convincing than an irritant.

>>2729328
>didn’t work once therefore it never works
How fucking retarded are you?

> doubling down on cope
Lol. Same as it ever was.

>>2729338
Bears run when you spray because they instinctively know not to mess with things that hiss and skunks. Predatory bears are not frequently deterred by bear spray.

>>2729348
Sounds like a classic false charge. Didn't need bearspray

>>2729349
>bear turns around and charges again at full tilt with different body language
> it was just kidding
>coping this hard

https://mountainjournal.org/how-sto<wbr>pping--grizzly-in-greater-yellowsto<wbr>ne-saved-a-life

extremely effective against cunt dogs that want to bite you....the only problem is the owner after they figure out you maced their shithead dog, so make sure you have can with enough juice left to spray them as well

>>2727920
I know for sure it works on junkies

>>2727920
for larger animals it might be effective, but for dogs, nothing beats a rock. (free)

>>2731689
Of course the guy who hates dogs also goes right to stoning. Have you said your daily seven prayers?


I have a dream to see the Wollemi pines in the wild. But the actual location of the valley containing the trees within the national park is a closely guarded secret. Wollemi NP is massive and almost entirely wilderness; I'm pretty sure I could search for years without ever finding them.

Does anyone have any leads or know anything about this?

Wollemi pine has been on display in botanical gardens for over a decade and is available for purchase through some, limited retailers in the USA. It is a fussy and difficult plant to grow in the garden, requiring a protected space, well-draining, somewhat acidic soil, and winter conditions found in USDA zones 9 to 11

>>2720237
The wollemi pines location has been doxxed on /out/ before and the jannies were too lazy and ineffective to remove it.

You could probably find it in a day on Google Earth.

Oh fuck it's Australia. Just get a few boxes of beer and ask an Abo to take you.

>>2720255
That's kind of sad honestly. But I have a pretty good idea now after looking at maps all day.
Will make an expedition on the weekend probably.

>>2720237
i saw them on a hike back before covid. i was going to the glowworm cave, hiked in and out (wont say the direction i went in/out) and while walking along a river i saw them. i knew they were there somewhere but i didnt realise they were actually there, if you know what i mean. probably someone else wouldnt have noticed it but im a plant enjoyer
obviously i walked among them, marked it on my map and left absolutely no trace. didnt touch them either just in case
not sharing the location though

are these the pines? everywhere i'm looking on Google Maps i see this lime green vegetation at the bottom of deep creek valleys, surrounded by dark gray vegetation that seem to be Eucalyptus. they are literally everywhere in valley bottoms, at least in NW Wollemi NP

>>2722058
there are only ~200 wollemi pines and they only exist in one stand in one valley.

wollemi national park is massive and most of it is canyons where you can't really go a long distance without being an expert climber spending days going up and down canyon walls 2-3 times a day.

there are subtropical forests in all the canyons, but only one canyon somewhere hides the precious wollemi pine family

>>2722061
what's this obviously completely different patch of trees then. expecially considering that there's a known grove along the very same creek

btw the place is like 2 kilometers from a dirt track

2024-04-19 17_31_36-Google Earth - Yandex Browser.png

2024-04-19 17_34_21-Google Earth - Yandex Browser.png

>>2722084
this is 100% not the wollemi stand
>>2722085
this might be, idunno!

>>2722087
is that national park explored enough that we are sure only one grove exists?

>>2722088
I think so, at this point, although we've learned over and over again that even outback NSW is full of surprises

someone post the decimal coordinates, PLEASE

>>2721909
Based non toucher. We have Kauri Dieback in NZ because people insist on standing all over their roots and molesting them.

>>2722085
Better go and look m8. I bet they've gone over it all in a chopper but you never know.

>>2722172
>Kauri Dieback
Good, king kaom is a bad man.

>>2722088
yeah, there were bushfires going through there a few years ago, apparently the figherfighters had to specifically go to the grove (apparently there are 3 but idk) to protect them
>>2722137
kill yourself, if youre too lazy to check irl you shouldnt even be asking
>>2722172
>Based non toucher
i didnt even really want to, but i did consider taking a cutting. maybe i would have if i had the tools
they say that there are more people that have been on the iss than have been in the groves, maybe its true. probably there are less people that have taken cuttings of them that have been on the moon

>>2722286
they send the air tankers out to proteck them. they also rigged up an irrigation and sprinkler sustem from the creek that would keep the humidity high in the valley/s so they wouldn't get singed. the fires swept through and only two wollemi were burned. this pic >>2722087 is the aftermath where everything but the wollemi pines was destroyed

>>2722287
yeah i know, im saying that if there was any elsewhere they would have been burned, so asking if theres any that arent known isnt really a good question. if they wernt known there would be no one to know to protect that area
also interestingly, when i saw them the valley didnt look like that so probably there are at least two groves

cmon someone just post the coordinates <br>I won't leave trash or anything

>>2722294
anon youve been told multiple times that they are on a river/creek. its also been said in this thread that no one is going to post the coordinates and you probably shouldnt trust any that are posted here because its pretty obvious that they arent going to be real (quick anon! 39.1577, -83.0910, thats the creek). trash isnt the only issue, are you going to step on roots? are you going to carry a disease? are you going to give the location to someone who will leave trash?
if you want to know where they are just go out and find them, walk along the rivers over a dozen or so trips and youll find them and youd also prove yourself worthy or something
anyway, kill yourself again

>>2722299
I won't give the location to anyone else. I won't spread disease or leave trash.
PLEASE give me the decimals.

>>2722303
>I won't spread disease
kek, post hazmat suit

What are some other "secret" spots like this around the world?

>>2722317
the nightcap oak is the only other one in australia i know of. theres also the hyperion, the tallest tree in the world (but the location has been leaked a hundred times, you can google for it)

>>2720237
Don't go there, idiots like you have apparently contaminated the site with invasive parasites already.

>>2722325
>invasive parasites
The fuck? Also if this tree is really old wouldn't that mean it's susceptible to all kinds of shit and bound to die? Like native Americans getting btfo.

>>2722326
Could be, but they do thrive in public gardens and as potted plants around the home, so I'm not sure if they're particularly delicate. Although everything has its kryptonite if you find it

>>2722327
It's going the way of the ornamental plant at best.

>>2722328
what do you mean?

also they're pretty ugly. i should really prune mine a bit this winter, it looks like a fucking psycho. then i can propagate from the cuttings and gift them to my frens

>>2722326
The keyword there is "invasive." The trees are not adapted to deal with them like they are native diseases. They don't have to be old.

>>2722330
I mean stuck in captivity.
>>2722331
Knowing Australia, its fate is to be invaded. I consider new residents late arrivals at this point.

>>2722332
>Knowing Australia, its fate is to be invaded. I consider new residents late arrivals at this point.
ironic considering the history of australia and the history of introduced pests

>>2722333
It's a running theme over there.

>>2722318
I used to have a secret hideaway. Then the weather got nice and arab's with bluetooth speakers "discovered" it. (I say "discovered" because it's a tiny patch of woods DIRECTLY behind my uni, yet during the winter, and most of spring, it's completely empty, save for the occasional wandering grandpa)

>>2722342
what uni? i live near a uni that's rather green and bushy

>>2720689
Just disinfect your boots with some kind of fungicide to make sure you’re not gonna accidentally kill them all with cinnamon fungus

>>2722428
no actually try develop their natural imunity. bring syringes full of glyphosate to inject

I'm starting to buy the idea that there are more groves out there.

Any plant-bros know what this could be if it isn't Wollemi?

Along Ovens creek in Wollemi is where they all reside

>>2722489
>>2722490
From talking to people in the NPWS there are several strands, but I don't think they're that distinct that you could spot them on a map like that.

Maybe with very high res aerial photos.

>>2722704
there are between 200 and 60 in the wild (its hard to count them apparently). a photo showing more than 200 trees isnt going to be it

Imagine being responsible for the literal extinction of a species

so any aussie going to these >>2722058 >>2722085 >>2722489 >>2722490 places to check if they're actually the pines?

>>2722342
>save for the occasional wandering grandpa
Nice. There are a few types of people that I don't mind bumping into outdoors and grandpas are one of them

>>2724544
They have been transplanted and transferred all over the world. At this point you wouldn't be able to wipe them out.

jesus christ just post the damn coordinates already

Just look up the habitat requirements of the Wollemi pine, go out to the park, ground truth a few dozen plots that match those requirements, then obtain high res aerial imagery and write an algorithm that predicts where those habitat conditions exist.
Then go out and visit all your predicted polygons until you find the pines.
Should only take you 4-5 years if you apply yourself.

>>2724618
>take you 4-5 years
kek, based retard
no one tell him

>>2724622
I could do that study in about 3 years by myself, if I lived in Australia. I gave him an extra one to two years to teach himself the principles of ecological land classification.

>>2724625
>could do that study in about 3 years by myself
doubling down on the retardation

this is a leave no digital trace thing. i dont post my good unknown spots anywhere.

>>2724618
Why do you need to write an algorithm just fucking think for yourself.

>>2722174
as living in Italy unfortunately i can't go there myself

>>2722490
if you look at the Coricudgy Forest on satellite imagery, the trees look very spiky. they still have a different color, dark green instead of the wollemi's supposed light green that is present in those other microgroves

tldr; the bigger, darker patches of "spiky" trees are cypresses. the smaller, lime green groves might be our pines

2024-04-28 10_15_31-Forestry Corporation - Cypress pine forests.png

>>2722493
>>2726809
kek, im >>2721909 (and its not a larp)
all im saying is that if you want to go there and check youll be disappointed

>>2726949
All I'm saying is the jannies are fucking lazy for allowing the location to stay up.

>>2726960
trannies also are lazy. a-are you saying jannies are trannies?

-33.02508002817495, 150.31693168015713

these aren't the coordinates. I just thought it looked like a cool spot for a hike ;)

>>2720237
All someone needs to do is collect botanical cuttings or seeds from domesticated source trees and then hike into a couple of those canyons and start seed bombing and planting more of them.

>>2726988
they won't survive just anywhere in the whilde anon, don't be glib

>>2726996
They've been surviving in that canyon for thousands of years haven't they? All you need is one autist to take samples and spam plant domesticated plants, statistically you should see some take even if it's only 1 in 1000.

>>2726997
They've already successfully cloned them and brought them to other countries. Pretty sure you can even buy them.

>>2727001
So what's stopping one Aussie autist from propagating them in the wild in random canyons. You can't always depend on the government for conservation, in fact you should never depend on it for that.

>>2727009
You can't depend on random idiots who know nothing about conservation either.

>So what's stopping one Aussie autist from propagating them in the wild in random canyons.
If you don't already know the answer to this question you're proving my point. You need to learn about something first before acting impulsively.

>>2727048
The government and conservation agencies are already at the stage of attempting and/or discussing wild propagation from cuttings. There is a study out right now on propagating them from cutting without rooting hormones. The fact that it took decades for them to get to that stage should tell all you need to know about government and institutional bureaucracy. You don't need any random idiot, you just need people that are passionate enough about it to learn it and then set them loose.

>>2727049
>muh backyard science is just as good as legitimate science
kek

>>2726960
Jannies are actively deleting posts to help keep the secret. Hope the sacred pines like roundup.

>>2727305
Mainstream science as presented in universities' curriculums and government institutions is largely deliberate fraud. Legitimate science always starts from the individual on the fringe.

>>2727342
>largely deliberate fraud
do you have an example of this? also of >legitimate science?

>>2727321
>threatening to destroy National Park property
Hold this L, senpai.

>>2727620
>>2727621
Michael Faraday
Schopenhauer
Goethe
Euler
Bohm (b1917)
Holtz
Toepler
Röntgen
Tesla
Ferraris
James Maxwell
Rupert Sheldrake (theories partially confirmed by epigenetic trauma inheritance in successive generations of animals, also people, and in the observer effect in consciousness, ironically this also feeds into separate but related and partially confirmed Bruce Lipton's work)
Thomas Henry Moray (work builds on dozens of others including Tesla in which electrostatic potential can be perpetually extracted from the atmosphere and earth via capacitors, hanging wires, grounded poles, step-up and step-down coils, and a subsequent electrostatic spark gap fed into a battery supply which will continuously ambiently charge it as long as an electrostatic potential difference exists between the earth and the air, which is constant and never reaches zero anywhere on earth)

By the way, there are hundreds of more examples. And my statement on the mainstream stands. All real science is fringe until it to becomes established dogma (a process that takes decades or centuries).

>>2720237
Your not trying hard enough, you could easily find this area based off the rock type behind the pines, size of the pines vs gorge and rock wall behind and environment they grown in.

>>2724625
Anon, careful use of AI could do all that shit in like a month tops if you used it to generate code to save time; less if you're just searching for topography and doing the visual inspections yourself.

>have a rare real life mystery and potential expedition on your hands
>beg for coordinates instead of having fun and adventure

>>2728565
The coordinates are already ITT.

>>2722172
>Kauir dieback

90% of the shoe cleaning stations don't even have fucking disinfectant in them because DOC are useless faggots. Not to mention that the deer, pigs, possums, birds and everything else that roams all over the soil, trees, roots and plants are responsible for spreading it, not some retards walking down a track. Kauri trees are donzo, they should just let people enjoy them while they still exist.

>>2726805
Abo niggers must not have paid the 4chan jannies their monthly tendies and HRT allowance.


A good yard

How do I get my front yard and backyard to look as good as this yard?

>>2728094
Aeration, fertilizer and water

>>2728094
That looks like absolute shit.

>>2728094
I can't imagine living in an HOA or allowing my yard to look that sterile by choice.

>>2728124
>>2728130
>>2728140
These. If your soil is high in clay and low in organic matter then you should aerate your lawn and fill the holes with biochar to improve the soil texture. After that apply compost or manure (horse would be best) to restore the organic carbon in the soil. Manure should have enough nutrients, but if you use compost then hit it with a 10-10-10 fertilizer. Mycorrhizal fungi will help, especially if parts of your lawn are struggling while others are thriving. You should consider something other than grass for your lawn. Local or drought tolerant grasses would be better than a seed mix off the shelf. You could explore yarrow, clover, thyme, mint, moss, and a wide variety of other turf options.

>>2728141
Thanks a lot, but could this still work if my yard is a sandy one?

>>2728154
The biochar will still help your soil retain more nutrients, but it won't improve the soil texture of sand. I think you want to go the other direction and add more clay and way more compost and manure. Calcium bentonite clay is the best clay soil amendment in my opinion, but if you're having trouble finding it then you can get unscented clay cat liter, which is sodium bentonite, instead. Sodium bentonite is 25% sodium and it will slowly leech into your soil so I'd recommend picking up some kind of calcium source like limestone or oyster shells and mix them together. You can do the math to compensate for the sodium exactly, or you can mix them about evenly and you'll have some excess calcium. Compost and manure are going to be the most important for your lawn. The organic matter will glue everything together and prevent nutrients from leeching out of your soil as quickly. Definitely explore other turf options and maybe consider using some of it to grow tomatoes. Tomatoes love sandy soil.

>>2728141
>>2728154
>>2728272
Here's a soil texture triangle that you can use to estimate how much clay you need to add. You want to aim for any kind of loam.

>>2728286
I'm an idiot. Here's the triangle.

>>2728094
Absolutely soulless. I prefer the meadow or wildflower look rather than the industrial golf course look.

>>2728292
I think her maiden name might be Sandy Clay, which means she's also Sandy Clay Loam. Do you think this Silty bitch is related? And who exactly is Clay?

>>2728316
name one golf course that's industrial

>>2728326
any golf course is industrial if you wear your nine inch nails golf polo

>>2728326
You know that maintaining a golf green requires a four year degree, right? It's because you're forcing the grass to grow in such an unnatural and unhealthy way that nearly anything will kill it. Your main job is to go around hosing down brown spots with fungicide and cutting out sections of grass to replace with a specialty sod. If you think that a golf course is an ideal lawn then you need to re-examine meadows and natural grassland.

>>2728340
>whoa a chance to give some big retarded lecture

>>2728326
All of them, retard. You ever see one get built?

>>2728154
You're going to want to remove the dead clumps of grass and probably in inch or more of that sand, then bring in topsoil and backfill the volume of sand you removed. Run a tamper or roller over it, apply seed and starter fertilizer, water twice a day till the grass is thick, and stay the hell off it--try to to walk on the new grass until it had enough time to establish.
I've fought this battle--there is no topsoil where i live, but I can get unlimited topsoil from my township, which is a plus.
t. NJ pine barrens

>>2728417
>try NOT to walk on the new grass

>>2728094
Why the fuck do you want a manicured piece of grass?
>>2728124
If you insist on being stupid, this. In addition, find yourself a broadleaf spray that doesn't kill grass. It'll take care of most weeds. Reseed thin spots, water daily, fertilize weekly, aerate yearly. Mow every 3 days, don't collect clippings in a bag, it's better to mulch them up.

>>2728420
A pound of salt in a gallon of water is a good broad leaf herbicide. It doesn't kill most grasses.

>>2728340
>Four year degree
No it doesn't
>Unhealthy and unnatural
Yes
>Nearly anything will kill it
False. It's grown in a way to be extremely resistant to extreme levels of foot/cart traffic and people quite literally beating the shit out of it with clubs.
>Cutting out sections of grass
I've never seen this as a part of any golf courses maintenance program
>Brown spot with fungicide
What's one fungus that causes browning of grass?
>Golf course isn't ideal lawn
But it is. Lawns are dumb as hell but you won't find a better kept lawn than a golf course. If you don't want a lawn, go after a garden, wildflowers, or just let everything go like in the wild.
I know plenty of people at the golf course. I'm on first name basis with more than a few of the people that maintain my favorite courses in the area. We chat about this stuff often because it's related to my industry. Golf courses don't really qualify as /out/ but they do know a few things about keeping highly manicured grass.

>>2728427
Then ask them about the green stuff and if they use specialty sod. If it's "properly" managed then they'll tell you all about the time they spend cutting out and replacing diseased grass.

>>2728094
why don't you just let it grow bro, have more grass in your yard let mother nature be in your yard.

>>2728094
Overwater. Weed and feed early in the season. Aerate it. Cut it short. Make sure to reseed it in the spring.

>>2728431
Every course I frequent grows it in place. You know grass is an extremely hardy plant that's down right difficult to kill, even with a bunch of chemicals in it to speed up it's growth or help it's color. I find it funny that's the only counter point you have to my post as well. Sorry you know shit about grass and less about golf. Maybe keep quite next time around.

>>2728578
You can keep your head in the sand for as long as you want.

>>2728417
Some of my first /out/ings were in the NJ pine barrens as a kid. I remember an abandoned water park

Grass is worthless. Torch it.

The US spends 300 BILLION on chopping grass annually. GRASS IS WORTHLESS. GROW ANYTHING OTHER THAN GRASS.

>>2728154
grow ephedra. and dig a few wide holes.

>>2728141
Genuine question, since you sound like you know what you're talking about.

>After that apply compost or manure (horse would be best) to restore the organic carbon in the soil
I put horse manure in my soil 1 year ago, and today when I was planting some stuff, I found undecayed clods of horse manure which looked exactly how they did when I buried them.

So I'm guessing your advice doesn't apply to me for some reason? I have heavy clay soil that is waterlogged for most of the year. But I think it actually preserves anything you put in it. It doesn't decompose due to lack of oxygen.

The best results I've had were from putting well-rotted manure and organic matter or compost into it.

Also I'm guessing your advice is mostly tailored to a US audience. You talk of drought tolerance, where I have water logged lawn 8 months of the year and live in an environment that's cold most of the year.

>>2731011
Nah, the advice is general. Your specific situation would require something a little different though. The reason your manure looks the same is partly because anaerobic decomposition (which would dominate in waterlogged soils) is much slower than aerobic decomposition and partly because a good portion the nutrients have likely been leached out leaving the carbon without enough nitrogen to decompose. That's okay though and the persistence of the organic matter is why I recommend horse manure for lawns over other manures. There are a lot of benefits to having high levels of soil organic matter.

>where I have water logged lawn 8 months of the year and live in an environment that's cold most of the year.
You would benefit from adding drainage and maybe a small pond. Dig trenches (~0.25-1 meter deep and maybe 0.25m wide) from places that water stands to a storage pond, water garden, or drainage pit. There should be a slight grade to the trenches (~1-2%) to help them drain and you don't want and dips in the trench where the water can puddle. Cover the bottom of the trench with gravel or crushed lump charcoal, which drains better, and lay down drain tube, drain tile, or more gravel/charcoal. Use sand or a finer grade of charcoal to fill in the space around your drain and to cover it by a few centimeters (~3-5) and top it with your topsoil and reseed or fill the rest of the way with gravel/charcoal if you want to use the drain as an accent for your yard.

JUSTlandscaper

Start with the lawn you've got, not the lawn you want. Assess the soil, take out some little cores with a pipe. Is it clay? Sandy? Test over the whole lawn not just the bits that look weird.

What kind of grass have you got? Is it one kind? All different kinds, shit that's probably a weed?

The solution depends entirely on your problem and what you want to achieve, so I won't even give advice to people who haven't done a proper assessment

>>2731147
French drains are great but this assumes that the lawn isn't in a low point too begin with, and sometimes water logging is symptomatic of compaction and lack of coring in which case a French drain would only be catching runoff.

I never recommend manure as fertiliser, small scale you go with liquid base, on acerage you're usually looking at granular due to cost. You can make your own liquid fertiliser from manure in a tank if you've got land so there's really no reason to apply it directly in my opinion.

I've theorised that you could just a testla pump to siphon from an underground tank which you might place at a low point and run your French drains into. Amphitheatre courtyards, golf courses, places where contouring was JUST.

Anonymous

There's also a reason people collect clippings, it's to reduce thatching and because ordinary lawn mowers throw clumps of clippings. It looks bad, it will always look bad especially if you're not mowing regularly.

Timing of fertiliser is important or you'll promote weeds and retard transitional lawns.

Over large areas there are a bunch of herbicides to choose from, choose carefully. Dicamba+mcpa is common but will kill buffalo and clover. You may need a spooky winter grass killer if you've got a fine turf.

>>2732272
I didn't assume anything, I told him to dig out a lower point to drain the water to. Installing a pond isn't the easiest thing to do, but I know people who would love to have his problems.

>You can make your own liquid fertiliser from manure in a tank if you've got land so there's really no reason to apply it directly in my opinion.
You can also make it with a 5 gallon buckets on your porch and apply it with a backpack sprayer. The reason to apply it directly, or apply the residue from making the manure tea, would be to help maintain soil organic matter which is essential for soil health. You could just use synthetic fertilizers and tons of compost to get the same results, but manure is common enough that you can usually find it for cheap or free.

>>2732274
>because ordinary lawn mowers throw clumps of clippings.
This is why reel mowers are superior.

>there are a bunch of herbicides to choose from
I like to use a pound of table salt in a gallon of water. It will kill most things, but it shouldn't kill grass or well established clover as long as you wait two weeks between applications. Some weeds like dandelions need multiple applications, and it won't work on halophytes, but for the majority of weeds it's safe and effective. You can look up "salt based herbicide" for more details.

>>2732272
>>2732281
>I've theorised that you could just a testla pump to siphon from an underground tank which you might place at a low point and run your French drains into.
I forgot to say that I'm having trouble visualizing what you're talking about. Can you elaborate?

Ahh Summer. Where at any given time you can hear some person mowing

>>2732302
That's another reason reel mowers are superior.

>>2728094
Assuming you don't have any ant colonies or underground root systems that are tapping the sod dry from below:
>set your lawnmower to its highest setting
>aerate every year or two
>weed and feed.

Regular watering if you want it to look really good.

>>2730349
I like it here. If there were no pine barrens I would have left Jersey by now. There's all sorts of abandoned stuff everywhere, some going back to the 1700's. It's challenging to grow stuff here tho...the topsoil is maybe 2-3" thick and it stunts the pines and anything else growing here.
The previous owner of my place (half acre in a little neighborhood in the middle of nowhere) mowed down the natural flora and put grass and other non-indiginous (?) shrubs and trees here. I'm slowly doing away with a lot of the grass and planting natural stuff to make it more like the Pine Barrens and less like something it's not.

>>2731011
If you have a mower, and it's early in the season, set your mower to a very low setting, remove the bag if you have one, and go over the lawn slowly. This might be enough to crush and break up the clods of manure, or hopefully they will get sucked up into the blades and chopped up.