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Louis#0144: Like sneak it in Ward#1738: I believe he is quite interested and involved in the EEGI project EricHallahan#1051: EEGI is long term. Let's not speculate on things. Louis#0144: I might end up helping him on that at aleph alpha this summer Louis#0144: lol kip#6104: defo ask about eegi gwern#1782: ask him about whether any openai or dm researchers are lurking to steal ideas. you know, ask him who he thinks is sus bmk#1476: yeah, there might be oa/dm people among us Daj#7482: We do have Amodei's Mom UnsupervisedLearner#4148: With inherent memory limitations why does it seem like no one is trying to make transformers distributed and sparse, or at least coming up with some good in-place gradient algorithms? Am I just not noticing the work doing this? Louis#0144: They are Louis#0144: lol Louis#0144: Check out MoE Louis#0144: Or routing transformer which isn’t sparse how you imagine Louis#0144: But it is kinda sparse UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Afaik MoE greatly underperforms Louis#0144: Yeah RazikMazilya#0001: My University blocks the-eye.eu, I’ve reported it as incorrect but they still haven’t done anything. They say it’s because the site is “File Sharing” on the block page. So why isn’t GDrive or Mega blocked lol. Anyone know how to bypass DNS based filtering without admin privileges? UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Routing ackshually sounds like what I was thinking about, sparse usually means big empty tensors which often are memory hogs of their own cfoster0#4356: Which memory limitations were you thinking about?
UnsupervisedLearner#4148: We have a lot more time than space for big gpu ops UnsupervisedLearner#4148: And gpu memory is afaik pretty hard to do UnsupervisedLearner#4148: So until we get hardware breakthrough we have hyuge bottleneck on model parameters if we keep architecture as-is cfoster0#4356: You sure about that? If I recall correctly, with existing techniques (DP, PP, offloading, reversible networks), bandwidth and compute are the real bottlenecks UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Not sure, no. I ask kindly for good links and resources to prove me wrong. I do beleeb bandwidth as an issue points to the memory problem, and reversible nets I am not entirely sure of the exact tradeoff and if they're worth it, I wonder for example why I haven't seen a big project use them besides that one LSH transformer gewgle put out UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Use a vpn? UnsupervisedLearner#4148: I think I would pay for a good vpn just to make sure my schreul is not allowed to spy on my internut usage inox#5400: don't pay for a VPN, use https://github.com/trailofbits/algo UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Neat UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Thank you RazikMazilya#0001: The fine folks at the Eye’s Discord server told me the IP since the filter is DNS based UnsupervisedLearner#4148: It's preddy annoy that they even have a filter in the first place. Just monitor suspect activity not actively thoughtban websites RazikMazilya#0001: To block a site for File Sharing is the most stupid thing I've heard, but to say Google Drive and Mega are exempt from that rule is more stupid. mgostIH#0245: @RazikMazilya Use Firefox DNS over https bmk#1476: @StellaAthena is there any mathematically elegant way to describe the sort of "homomorphism" (in quotes, because i can't figure out exactly what type of objects it's between) between the interval [0, 1] under subtraction and one quadrant of the circle group under inner product? bmk#1476: basically my problem is neither of these objects are groups since they aren't really closed bmk#1476: and the reason i'm doing this and not Z onto the circle group is because it seems to be an important crux that in rotary the image is finite sized and we make sure it ends up not going more than pi/2 around EricHallahan#1051: sounds like you want a simplex? Louis#0144: I really like mullvad tho Louis#0144: 🤷‍♂️
Teemochu#8740: Guessing it's 3-5 from being able to build a machine that costs about as much as a car but is still "a machine" (on one US power outlet), and about 10 from an Actual Gamer having that kind of power. So that's pretty accurate. RazikMazilya#0001: They seem to have a way of blocking that StellaAthena#3530: Why subtraction specifically EricHallahan#1051: Because it is a difference? bmk#1476: well, distance between positions mgostIH#0245: If you have an homomorphism for + you get one for - anyways bmk#1476: not quite bmk#1476: because the size is bounded bmk#1476: so + isnt closed mgostIH#0245: Hmmm inox#5400: I use mullvad as well tbh, but for torrenting, don't use algo for that inox#5400: honestly I don't use algo either much, anything I'd want to use it for can be done with tailscale with less effort 45#2247: https://www.twitch.tv/mtrazzi 45#2247: talking to connor live on twitch fo r50m 45#2247: ask questions (serious not accepted) Daj#7482: :berk: StellaAthena#3530: Okay so you have [0, 1] with Euclidean distance. And you want to say that that’s more or less the same thing as {e^ix : x in [0, π/2]} with distance being measured around the arc? bmk#1476: x in [0, pi/2] for the second thing bmk#1476: yeah bmk#1476: and the similarity is subtraction maps to inner product
StellaAthena#3530: And the question is what to call this correspondence? bmk#1476: but it's not closed under addition/multiplication bmk#1476: yeah basically i want to know the best mathematical object for representing it StellaAthena#3530: It’s not closed under subtraction either bmk#1476: uh, say absolute distance and absolute inner product bmk#1476: actually wait bmk#1476: no bmk#1476: ignore what i just said mgostIH#0245: @bmk you know how you define rational numbers from pairs of integers? Like say you have the pair (1, 2), you want this to be the same object as (2, 4), (3, 6) and so on You want all these objects to be the same, so one thing you do is consider the quotient of ZxZ under the relationship that tells you whether two of these points are equal ( (a, b) ~ (c, d) iff a * d = b * c) You could do the same for your numbers in [0, 1], identifying each pair by their difference, so (0.5, 0.6) being the same object as (0.51, 0.61) StellaAthena#3530: Inner product is complex valued mgostIH#0245: You could do this too for the inner products of numbers on the circle group, you define two pairs of complex numbers to be the same entity by considering the equivalent relationship under their inner product mgostIH#0245: Then you get well defined sets and can talk bijections and whatnot bmk#1476: sure, it isnt - what i'm thinking is that subtraction maps very well to inner product in a kinda homomorphismy sense StellaAthena#3530: What purpose do you want to use this correspondence for? bmk#1476: hm, and so then the equivalence classes sort of form diagonals of [0, 1]^2? bmk#1476: i mean first off it feels like there's a mathematically elegant way to formulate rotary hiding somewhere in there for one, since to me that feels like it's the core of rotary, but also i want to show that this formalism generalizes nicely to tori and not spheres cfoster0#4356: We can't hear Connor on the stream :sadge:
mgostIH#0245: You basically get [0, 1]x[0, 1]\\~ as your domain mgostIH#0245: Which is kinda like how Q is ZxZ\\~ mgostIH#0245: ~ is the equivalence relationship bmk#1476: and the equivalence classes would be diagonals from upper left to bottom right mgostIH#0245: idk what you mean with diagonals 🤔 mgostIH#0245: I'll brb because I have dinner bmk#1476: like those are the elements you collapse together StellaAthena#3530: What’s going on is that, $(\mathbf{T},\cdot)\cong (\mathbf{R}/\mathbf{Z}, +)$ bmk#1476: R/Z, + is addition that wraps around? TeXit#0796: **Stella Biderman** https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837030180719427625/193204646687408129.png StellaAthena#3530: Yup bmk#1476: well, duh, obviously StellaAthena#3530: This is a group isomorphism bmk#1476: theyre trivially the same thing bmk#1476: but irl we dont wrap around StellaAthena#3530: They’re not *trivially* the same thing bmk#1476: but i mean it's kinda obvious and it feels like skipping a major part of the difficulty by assumption StellaAthena#3530: So, if we are going to talk about inner products we should really talk about vector spaces bmk#1476: but Z isn't even a vector space bmk#1476: so clearly it can't be a linear map
StellaAthena#3530: You have $v,w\in \mathbb{C}^d$ and $v’, w’\in\mathbb{R}^{2d}$. And you are observing that $\langle v, w\rangle = \cdots$ TeXit#0796: **Stella Biderman** https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837030992702603274/193204646687408129.png StellaAthena#3530: What do you want to fill in there? $v’ - w’$? TeXit#0796: **Stella Biderman** https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837031140182720552/193204646687408129.png bmk#1476: C^d/R^2d represents each embedding? bmk#1476: sorry i have a work thing rn, 30 mins StellaAthena#3530: I don’t understand the question. I’m taking the correspondence you postulated and moving to a space where we have notions like “inner products” because we don’t have inner products in the way you want on the spaces we were originally talking about mgostIH#0245: @bmk Ohhh you mean diagonals if you were to see it as a square of sides [0, 1] mgostIH#0245: Hmm yes mgostIH#0245: I didn't visualize it like this but ye mgostIH#0245: With the quotient thingy you don't get a direct homomorphism, but you can then define new operations on those and get a homomorphism on those mgostIH#0245: You can also do the same on the inner product space mgostIH#0245: Define all pairs that have the same inner product as being related mgostIH#0245: It'll basically mean that two complex numbers that have the same angle between them will be the same object 45#2247: argh srry i hope there was sound at the end Sora#8531: The sound came back after you stopped using the mic thing I think Sora#8531: Maybe next time try it on your phone to see it works Sora#8531: That's what I used to do when streaming in the past Sora#8531: Also can look at chat from your phone so you dont need to change windows Sora#8531: Cool interview overall tho @45 . Looking forward to the next one!
Daj#7482: Thanks @45 , was fun, sorry I had to leave bmk#1476: @StellaAthena k im back now bmk#1476: i'm mostly looking at the *invariance* within the image rather than the actual embeddings themselves bmk#1476: i think another way of looking at what i want is this: bmk#1476: everything works out perfectly fine for Z -> T bmk#1476: i can prove that Z^2 -> H doesnt work bmk#1476: but that only shows that you cant map *infinitely large* images onto a sphere (and have the nice properties everywhere) bmk#1476: but that doesn't imply that finitely large images can't be mapped onto a sphere alstroemeria313#1694: sigh... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837065308808282152/unknown.png alstroemeria313#1694: no video signal, perfectly good for machine learning EricHallahan#1051: I never considered that defective GPUs could still be valuable. gwern#1782: "no video signal" suggests serious problems with it. I'd want to see some DL benchmarking and proof it's stable for at least a day of compute before I plunked down $1300+ for it EricHallahan#1051: Doesn't matter. It is worth the risk when mining. The Enemy#7615: has anyone posted the security research thing about openai here The Enemy#7615: dont wanna post another recycled link The Enemy#7615: yep gwern in #memes Exocamp#8255: I may or may not be crazy, but I thought I remembered a website where you could see the progress of the gpt-neo training Exocamp#8255: Is that still up? cfoster0#4356: Foomboard. I think we retired it kindiana#1016: we have wandb now
Exocamp#8255: Ah I see. Exocamp#8255: Found it Exocamp#8255: https://wandb.ai/eleutherai/neox Putting it here for any lurkers who may have same question as me. EricHallahan#1051: Retired. Exocamp#8255: thx for help set_snail#4916: Hey folks, just joined here. Quick question, I see a lot of projects already out in progress. Is there a project (even if it's deprecated I'd be willing to bring it up) which works on fairness of vision models? Works may include interpretation of how vision models, what data and their properties dominate, functioning of the (black box) model itself and interpretation of its fair i.e. when and where it can fail. EricHallahan#1051: Are you asking about interpretability? StellaAthena#3530: Welcome! We don’t have any projects on that right now. We have a project in vision models, but it’s pretty far detached from this. EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, we are not really working on any interpretability projects right now. set_snail#4916: Thanks Stella. @EricHallahan Yeah interpretabilty would be one of them but can include even broader things 🙂 Also, how do projects start here. Do people have to join an existing project only or can a new one be proposed (is there a process for it?) set_snail#4916: P.S. I am a ML researcher and I bring along some industry experience as well. Sorry didn't introduce myself properly in the beginning EricHallahan#1051: There really isn't a formal proposal process. It is kind of "give us an elevator pitch, and if we like what we see we'll think about doing something." EricHallahan#1051: Though we kinda had a major expansion recently of projects lol set_snail#4916: Thanks, Eric. What would major expansion mean? bmk#1476: we mostly do LM stuff bmk#1476: but also we'd love to expand more into interpretability stuff in general bmk#1476: bonus points if you do vision transformer stuff that also generalizes to LMs
StellaAthena#3530: In the past three months we've gone from three to.... however many are under the projects header now EricHallahan#1051: I am talking about how we resurrected #deleted-channel, and then added #vision and #sp3 (speech, signal processing, audio, etc.) bmk#1476: also dont forget the OG projects like neo(x) and eval harness EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, I think we may need to retard our expansion a bit lol bmk#1476: and now pyfra bmk#1476: and speedrun bmk#1476: and speedrun 2: electric boogaloo EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, if you want to do something, do eval harness. EricHallahan#1051: *dangles authorship* EricHallahan#1051: Oh, how did I forget about #carp? bmk#1476: i already said speedrun EricHallahan#1051: I know, I don't know how I missed it the first time. set_snail#4916: Right. I will look into them. Where can I find details of speedrun and OG projects. I couldn't see on the website. EricHallahan#1051: lol EricHallahan#1051: I'm the person who does website content, EricHallahan#1051: We don't put all the projects up there because I don't know what to put there. EricHallahan#1051: "speedrun" is now #carp. We are attempting to make language models better by adding a minor multimodal component. set_snail#4916: LOl. Ok. I am new to language models but have done a lot on vision (which is why I was initially biased for vision). I am wondering where can I start. EricHallahan#1051: #lm-thunderdome is where eval harness development is discussed. EricHallahan#1051: I don't know where they are right now, but check out the project doc for #vision. https://discord.com/channels/729741769192767510/833024668780068894/833025052973858856
EricHallahan#1051: I expect P4TR10T_TR41T0R to not be up at this hour, so unfortunately I can't ask him what he needs help with. set_snail#4916: No worries. There is a lot of conversation there. I will skim them to get upto speed. I can may then ask questions there directly EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, P4TR10T is CEST (UTC+2), so I don't expect him to be up anytime soon sadly. set_snail#4916: No worries. Thanks for the help, Eric neko#5937: Is there a magic secret where gpt neo outperforms gpt2xl at text generation? EricHallahan#1051: Maybe? I don't know, it depends on what your measure of performance is. neko#5937: Like most of the reviews seem to be that gpt neo 2.5b is not much better than gpt neo 1.3b but I think there's more to it neko#5937: Good one Louis#0144: Prompt eng Louis#0144: 100% neko#5937: I don't understand Louis#0144: 1.3 doesn’t play nicely with prompts EricHallahan#1051: You always say that lol Louis#0144: 2.7b is much more reliable neko#5937: Oh ok Louis#0144: Because I am working on a prompt eng paper Louis#0144: And 2.7 works really well neko#5937: Yeah LMs seem to have their own personalities neko#5937: Like different LM have their own traits neko#5937: In terms of what they understand
neko#5937: Thanks a lot that really helps bmk#1476: can someone pls help implement something in python using multiprocessing or something: bmk#1476: so i have a list of functions that take a parameter x bmk#1476: i have a list of xs. for each x in xs, i want to call the first function with x, then the second, etc. so sort of like a pipeline. but the thing is, i can actually run f(x2) and g(x1) at the same time bmk#1476: Basically batch pipelined multiprocessing kindiana#1016: can't you implement this with imap? kindiana#1016: wait bmk#1476: no it's pipelining bmk#1476: not parallel processing kindiana#1016: so you eventually want g(f(x1)), g(f(x2..)) kindiana#1016: right? bmk#1476: yeah bmk#1476: and ofc with more functiona bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837181103529787402/Download_5.png kindiana#1016: create a bunch of multiprocessing pools Louis#0144: Use pool and a queue kindiana#1016: and imap across them kindiana#1016: imap takes an iterator kindiana#1016: and produces an iterator Louis#0144: Have a master thread thread to the queue
bmk#1476: I'd prefer a premade solution lol i don't feel like doing this by hand and possibly messing it ip bmk#1476: someone has got to already have made a python lib for it right Louis#0144: imap is easy Louis#0144: It’s ten lines of code Louis#0144: lol bmk#1476: how does this help me pipeline Louis#0144: Just an iterator class kindiana#1016: you can chain the imaps Louis#0144: I’m too tired rn ask Ben bmk#1476: i can only run one f at a time, one g at a time, etc Louis#0144: Oh kindiana#1016: yeah kindiana#1016: create a bunch of pools kindiana#1016: one for each function kindiana#1016: with one thread bmk#1476: surely someone else has already implemented this before Louis#0144: Why Louis#0144: It’s ez Louis#0144: lol kindiana#1016: its not that complicated 🤔
Louis#0144: Are u scared of multi threading Louis#0144: lol Louis#0144: Chicken bmk#1476: look I'm the kind of person that needs to alias os.system to sh Louis#0144: Bawk Louis#0144: :goose2: Louis#0144: We need to get Leo to write multithreaded code in C Louis#0144: Show him a fun time bmk#1476: using os.system is too hard for me bmk#1476: so i have to alias it to sh Louis#0144: Mutex with pointers suck bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837182174246731776/unknown.png Louis#0144: And cache misfire bc you forgot to cache the right data for the right thread Louis#0144: gg bmk#1476: like im such a scrub that i dont want to type this out each time https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837182252168904734/unknown.png janus#0150: @bmk I'll write something for you bmk#1476: @janus ben already wrote something up bmk#1476: so it's fine janus#0150: ah cool cfoster0#4356: Can one stick a numpy array inside the meta of lm_dataformat examples? Also... should one
cfoster0#4356: Thining about this for CLAP, where each example is a short amount of text, with an accompanying spectrogram clip 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: Is any of the pretrained models in HF able to handle structured text (xml files actually)? Or, which one should I be fine tuning if that's not the case? I would be interested for similarity search + retrieval at first ersatz#0001: anyone have an estimate of the dollar price of training the big model? Sid#2121: big dollar Sid#2121: about yay big 🖐️ ---------------------------------------------- 🖐️ Bran#4755: (3 quid) Daj#7482: But yeah, like, multiple millions for renting hardware alone Daj#7482: But there's so many unknowns you can't reliably quote a number ersatz#0001: yeah just asking for an estimate, like around $2M? $5M? $10M? Daj#7482: Too many factors to be more precise than that range imo Daj#7482: And this is only hardware renting not counting dev time and the likely many failed starts before you get it right finetune#0907: is that supposed to be in the rope blog post? looks like it may be left over from editing https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837309913138462750/blog.png StellaAthena#3530: @finetune Ah I thought we had fixed that, I’ll do so shortly StellaAthena#3530: huh StellaAthena#3530: $$f(\mathbf{q}, m) = \begin{pmatrix} M_1 & & & \\ & M_2 & & \\ & & \ddots & \\ & & & M_{d/2}
\end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix} q_1\\ q_2\\ \vdots\\ q_d \end{pmatrix} = \mathbf{\Theta_m Q_m} = \mathbf{\Theta_m W_qX_m}$$ StellaAthena#3530: This is what it is supposed to say StellaAthena#3530: but it renders without an issue here. TeXit#0796: **Stella Biderman** https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837311528222720030/193204646687408129.png StellaAthena#3530: @finetune It's fixed finetune#0907: all good now 👍 nz#9710: Was the #links channel deleted? kindiana#1016: I guess alignment links is gone Kia#2550: It can do graphs, that's interesting Daj#7482: Yea we didn't see it as having a clear use Daj#7482: Same with alignment-links Daj#7482: We tend to try to reign in channel proliferation where possible lol nz#9710: I see Kia#2550: The cycle of life of a channel
Louis#0144: gm my goslings Louis#0144: :goose3: Louis#0144: 🥰 StellaAthena#3530: Graphs? What do you mean? This isn't a graph. That said, yes it can do graphs. It can do anything LaTeX can do (aka, anything) Kia#2550: Ow- um Still interesting to be honest Kia#2550: :look: It can do graphs EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, I had noticed it too. Caebokee#9905: Hi everyone, Sorry for silly question but Is it possible to generate a text on CPU using https://huggingface.co/EleutherAI/gpt-neo-1.3B ? Or I need to use TPU/GPU for that? EricHallahan#1051: Nope, should work fine. EricHallahan#1051: CPU might be a bit slow, but you should be able to run it no problem if you got the memory. Caebokee#9905: Ahh I got only 32Gb of RAM, might be the issue I tried this 3 line example from the huggingface page - got empty output EricHallahan#1051: 32 GiB of memory should be *plenty*. EricHallahan#1051: even for 2.7B Quill#9732: sampling from gptneo-2.7B on CPU for me takes ~20 GB of memory (...and ~20 core-minutes to generate a response to an input) EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, if you can't fit 1.3B into memory, there is a deeper problem. EricHallahan#1051: It can either be a borked configuration (which I highly doubt because HF) or you have something else allocated taking up memory. Caebokee#9905: thanks folks, will double check the memory consumption
Yang#8543: Anybody have a Julia colab here? Yang#8543: Ok, how about gpt neo colab, is there one when you can kinda talk to it? EricHallahan#1051: You can prompt engineer that. Yang#8543: Any conversational agent colab? Just need some example to try integration EricHallahan#1051: Are there any pretrained conversational pipeline models on HF? Yang#8543: Should be EricHallahan#1051: I know that DialoGPT exists. EricHallahan#1051: But it isn't tuned so the results are pretty terrible. Yang#8543: There's Russian rugpt3 1.3b. should I look any further? Yang#8543: And ai dungeon 2 EricHallahan#1051: If you just want to try integration then any of them should be fine I would think. Yang#8543: But what's the best you can get? Yang#8543: Or you can think of Yang#8543: To just run it on colab via web interface EricHallahan#1051: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Yang#8543: Facebook one was open iirc Yang#8543: Only can't find it Yang#8543: Aight, just grabbing random then. Thank you Yang#8543: Dialo biggest is 762 Yang#8543: Guess Russian one should be smarter
EricHallahan#1051: Problem is that I don't know any Russian. Yang#8543: It does speak English Yang#8543: Just most of the data set was Russian text, iirc. Although they threw stack overflow and gh at it too Yang#8543: At least it's mit inspiration101#2728: I made some progress on making a gpt-neo sandbox EricHallahan#1051: Cool to hear! Yang#8543: Ough, there's gpt2 1.5b with js UI inspiration101#2728: this is it in action https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837358793800155217/ezgif.com-gif-maker.gif EricHallahan#1051: Hey, no one said the interface had to be fancy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ EricHallahan#1051: If it works, it works. EricHallahan#1051: I tend to think native elements tend to work better than heavily styled ones. inspiration101#2728: the mouse effect is from the recorder, by the way EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, I didn't actually notice it until you mentioned it lol mkualquiera#3484: wait this is not offtopic mkualquiera#3484: fuck EricHallahan#1051: Excuse me? EricHallahan#1051: I don't understand what you are claiming. mkualquiera#3484: wat Sora#8531: I want some of what this guy is having mkualquiera#3484: The outgroup thing is just a meme, this is one of the groups with the least established borders ever, literally all you have to do to belong here is just chatting for a while?
Tinytitan#5596: to reiterate: wat Jaeson#0472: Can you please give an example? gwern#1782: name three gwern#1782: so you can't. gwern#1782: I'll be sure to remember that every time in the future you make normative recommendations and offer claims from an omniscient god's eye point of view. gwern#1782: well, now they won't. andyljones#7746: maybe there are more important traits than being a high quality engineer 🤔 mkualquiera#3484: Did something happen that the rest of us are not aware of... or? EricHallahan#1051: No, not to my knowlege. mkualquiera#3484: I'm very confused gwern#1782: what respect did you earn, exactly? alstroemeria313#1694: ...was it the goose thing that got moved to #off-topic by any chance bmk#1476: @clara mkualquiera#3484: No that was later alstroemeria313#1694: oh alstroemeria313#1694: i'm out of ideas then bmk#1476: if you can't state exactly what it is you take issue with, then stop fighting or i'll have to ban you andyljones#7746: honestly im pretty confused too, but clara has a history of unprovoked hostility and im mocking them for it mkualquiera#3484: I mean the first thing you said was outright hostile without any context bmk#1476: we don't want people running around being hostile for no good reason
bmk#1476: :banhammer: nz#9710: wait did you ban them bmk#1476: yes bmk#1476: they've been doing this for a while now nz#9710: what was the last message (I only just saw it before deletion) gwern#1782: yeah, imagine starting out by calling us "despicable" and wondering why we aren't falling over to respect them bmk#1476: just popping in and attacking people for no good reason nz#9710: to be honest I enjoyed some of their contributions to the discussion (such as in #research) but they did attack andy a couple times before and it was in my view totally unjustified nz#9710: it's a pity, but understandable mkualquiera#3484: Honestly it would've been a lot less bad if they literally explained what it was all about StellaAthena#3530: We try (perhaps more than we should) to give people leeway when they also contribute positively but Clara has been trying that line for a while. bmk#1476: they have a long pattern of doing this - accusing people of things and then not saying what bmk#1476: we've already given them the benefit of the doubt gwern#1782: indeed. I am fine with according people ordinary levels of respect... and Clara threw it all away long before without earning any replacement respect Deleted User#0000: what did he/she say? out of curiosity nz#9710: IIRC that something about the culture of the server was leading to many high quality engineers leaving/refusing to collaborate nz#9710: unfortunately they did not provide a single example of such behavior bmk#1476: theyve been complaining about this since forever, too EricHallahan#1051: They have been incredibly hostile. gwern#1782: (concerntrolling, basically)
nz#9710: like I myself have done a bit of average outgroup fan vs average ingroup enjoyer memes, but those are literally memes, they are not supposed to be taken at face value bmk#1476: if anything, our culture of giving so much benefit of the doubt to concerntrolls probably lowers the server quality more xen0#3601: uwu gwern#1782: the balance seems reasonably okish to me at the moment. there's still enough technical work and high-context stuff that recruiting and retention and focus are balanced mkualquiera#3484: and as I said earlier, this group encourages everyone to participate, even if they are not that technologically capable. Like Kianne is literally a baker and they have so much fun here mkualquiera#3484: The only people that are really turned down are weirdos like that one dude that was posting shirtless selfies mkualquiera#3484: so I honestly think what they said was either some elaborate troll or some extremely distorted mindset Deleted User#0000: well, if there's another org out there, i'd like to know about it Deleted User#0000: he/she should just go start his/her own Louis#0144: Woah Louis#0144: Wtf happened Louis#0144: Hey Phil how did poolformer go EricHallahan#1051: Working on it IIRC Louis#0144: Ah ok Deleted User#0000: still working things out in the mind EricHallahan#1051: Oh, there he is lol Deleted User#0000: spilling it out in code after ice cream's walk StellaAthena#3530: It’s not just you nz#9710: I remember attacks against both you and sphinx (though I definitely lost a few, I am not always looking at this discord eheh) triggerhappygandi#0001: @Deleted User your dog's name is ice cream?
triggerhappygandi#0001: why triggerhappygandi#0001: lol Deleted User#0000: its funny Deleted User#0000: the german shephard i grew up with was named "pup-pup" Deleted User#0000: (my sister named it) Deleted User#0000: keeping the tradition Sphinx#2092: Hmm I'm generally a prickly person so I didn't think much of it lol Deleted User#0000: people name their dogs mochi or chocolate Deleted User#0000: why can't i do ice cream nz#9710: yea, but I feel sorry since you had simply made an interesting observation about research and they attacked you for it mkualquiera#3484: Plus "lucidrains' ice cream" turned out to be a great CLIP prompt for aesthetics inspiration101#2728: Does anyone have any specific features they would want in a gpt-neo sandbox? mkualquiera#3484: 🤔 mkualquiera#3484: The most important part imo is a good repetition prevention thing inspiration101#2728: What do you mean? mkualquiera#3484: If you sample the model by itself, it can easily get stuck in a loop repeating the same phrase over and over finetune#0907: yeah, i think having a way to control the temperature and repetition_penalty parameters would be good inspiration101#2728: That is a good call, I will add that alexyz#3459: https://github.com/finetuneanon/gpt-neo_dungeon Found an AI-Dungeon knockoff using gpt-neo triggerhappygandi#0001: look at #the-faraday-cage-archive for gpt-neo responses, for example
alexyz#3459: Looks interesting UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Does anyone know of measuring entropy content of the generated text and optimizing based upon that? I feel like I am more stimulated by highly entropic text cfoster0#4356: We commonly use perplexity as a validation metric, which is directly related to entropy iirc cfoster0#4356: I'm not sure if directly optimizing for entropy would work well though 🤔 UnsupervisedLearner#4148: I was thinking about it. In a sense word salad would be more entropic mkualquiera#3484: wouldn't that just make the text more random? mkualquiera#3484: I mean you can just increase the temperature if that's what you want EricHallahan#1051: If you want random text just initialize an untrained model. inox#5400: that's something like the information density they talk about in this paper https://arxiv.org/abs/2010.02650 UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Hey yeah that sounds like what I was trying to think up UnsupervisedLearner#4148: thanks inox#5400: this stochastic version of beam search looks fun but I've never used it https://arxiv.org/abs/1903.06059 Deleted User#0000: yea truth is, talent is the real scarcity Deleted User#0000: there is a reason why companies would have entire departments or recruiters out on commission Deleted User#0000: to head hunt Deleted User#0000: the best thing to do is to hold a good mission statement, for a group like Eleuther EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, now that I think about it, we don't really have a mission statement. EricHallahan#1051: We have a vision, but no mission. EricHallahan#1051: IMO Deleted User#0000: i think its fine
Deleted User#0000: releasing gpt-neo already left a big statement Deleted User#0000: action speaks louder than words EricHallahan#1051: Well yeah, but one of our goals is to not be known as just GPT-Neo people. UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Is this really true? I feel like deep learning is swamped with talent and interest EricHallahan#1051: We don't want that to be our image. UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Real scarcity is.... hardware Deleted User#0000: i think the need is somewhere in the intersection. you need software talent too Deleted User#0000: not just rote theory Deleted User#0000: that's what i noticed hanging out with a couple groups by now UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Ahh, that's what I've realized. Less competitive to focus on engineering instead of competing in paper publishing ratrace (blessed be those that do) UnsupervisedLearner#4148: You know, that said, I will have time for a side project or two in a couple weeks. I'll try and help out here where possible I think. It's as good a place as any Deleted User#0000: gpt neo is already really rare Deleted User#0000: most people just talk their way through life. you learn that after hanging out here in the valley, where people pride them for execution (there's still a bunch of talk and nonsense here) Deleted User#0000: should be proud, and proud of Sid too for carrying most of the project ha EricHallahan#1051: Sid is invaluable. Deleted User#0000: and now he's been poached by aleph alpha 😦 Deleted User#0000: but it seems like aleph alpha and eleuther's goals align bmk#1476: thankfully i havent been poached, but also i dont do much of value either so it balances out Deleted User#0000: aren't you holding a day job with some startup? bmk#1476: yes (or, well, kinda, it's complicated) but i havent been poached by aleph yet
Deleted User#0000: sweet talk connor into a referral bmk#1476: nah, my goal is to make a ton of money and then live off it and be completely, truly unaffiliated bmk#1476: where a ton = like, idk, not that much lol bmk#1476: so i guess my goal is to make a mediocre amount of money and live off it for a while UnsupervisedLearner#4148: mien brethren UnsupervisedLearner#4148: I just want geographic freedom really bmk#1476: my goal rn is a job at OA, but first i need a bit more resume building bmk#1476: i have several papers in the last mile that i want to get out first bmk#1476: oh, same bmk#1476: the pandemic makes that really hard >.> bmk#1476: 2 week quarantine periods? nein danke UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Geographic freedom > hyuge runway maybe even FIRE > rest of my time dedicated to dilettante tek works from ocean farming permaculture to AI shenanigans inox#5400: I could live off my mediocre savings fine now but if I stop working they take away my healthcare gwern#1782: what's an aleph alpha? UnsupervisedLearner#4148: https://aleph-alpha.de/ gwern#1782: "Until 2015, the size of AI models grew according to Moore’s Law, but since then, it has been doubling about every 3 months." 😦 gwern#1782: so this is... a startup trying to lap at the EU trough? or what ersatz#0001: isn't some guy here working at this place or something Daj#7482: Yea I work there Daj#7482: There's a lot of free energy in the EU market for this kind of stuff atm and they let me do open alignment research all day so they're pretty cool in my books hah
Daj#7482: I do not endorse the generic website lol mgostIH#0245: aka "They pay the bill and I am a philosopher dude" ersatz#0001: isn't alignement more math than philosophy Daj#7482: They also pay Sid to work on NeoX :berk: gwern#1782: @Daj on the bright side, we're due for a 2.8t parameter GPT-3 now that 4 doublings have passed since gpt-3 was published! mgostIH#0245: Silly Daj#7482: lol i'll inform the poor PR guy to fix that mgostIH#0245: I think doublings are like every 2 year mgostIH#0245: It's like a conservative moore's law Daj#7482: Then again tbh 2.8T could drop and I wouldn't even be that surprised ersatz#0001: maybe that was written before covid, crypto and all that EricHallahan#1051: Switch Transformer lol EricHallahan#1051: Literally just exists to claim a superlative. EricHallahan#1051: IMO Daj#7482: It's a nice company fwiw Daj#7482: Let me work on alignment and do Eleuther stuff all day mgostIH#0245: Why do you need to work on alignment if it was already solved in the 90s? mgostIH#0245: Like the rest of deep learning Daj#7482: True Daj#7482: Guess I work on my true passion then
ersatz#0001: this whole field is maybe half a dozen people top Daj#7482: Memes Daj#7482: And meme AIs Daj#7482: It's more than that but it is small ersatz#0001: full time? real alignement and not "ai ethics" or something? not much more Daj#7482: MIRI alone is more than that ersatz#0001: they must have grown since the last time I looked and I assumed that MIRI was the entire field tbh Daj#7482: Field is much larger now Daj#7482: CHAI, CLR, FHI, various safety teams, various indeodent researchers... ersatz#0001: true I'd forgotten about Russell's group UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Wat means alignment. It does what you want and no paperclips or it learns your values and lives them, or something else? bmk#1476: paperclip bad cev good UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Can we have a Mesopotamian citystate god competition except the central gods are actually superintelligent AIs? ersatz#0001: > Wat means alignment building a Mind Daj#7482: Alignment is the general term used to describe the field of research of how to "make an AI do good things we want and not bad things we don't want" Daj#7482: This, turns out to be really, really hard ersatz#0001: possibly impossible before AGI Daj#7482: Which would/will suck, a lot lol UnsupervisedLearner#4148: It's hard to make it do even bad things besides fail to converge I feel like
Daj#7482: I think that's just a temporary situation Daj#7482: Our systems our improving exponentially Daj#7482: Eventually, they will get good UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Just make a ton of AGIs and hope a good portion likes us. Surely that's a reasonable solution Daj#7482: I expect very soon, but even if it takes a long time, still worth thinking about Daj#7482: It is not at all lmao ersatz#0001: It depends, imagine an AGI perfectly aligned with the values of humanity, it would be simple to reverse its utility function and create a world where "I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream" is a dream world UnsupervisedLearner#4148: No I agree and thank you for thinking on it since I mostly wanna just move fast and break things Daj#7482: The "space of possible values" is enormous, a "random mind" would, on average, have absolutely no values we endorse whatsoever Daj#7482: This is called "hyperexistential separation" Daj#7482: At least, the avoidance is Daj#7482: The scenario you describe is called a "suffering risk" or "s-risk" Daj#7482: And is the Nr1 thing that I dread UnsupervisedLearner#4148: I want a return to tribal competition with local pantheon except the local pantheon consists of AGIs. Yes this is unreasonable. Daj#7482: Unfortunately, if the AGIs can build nukes, nanotech and worse, "competition" could end in a sterile universe very quickly Daj#7482: And competition generally engenders malthusian conditions ersatz#0001: it can be argued that doing alignment research is many orders of magnitude more hazardous than running an unaligned AGI for this reason lol Daj#7482: Which aren't very nice UnsupervisedLearner#4148: "Can ~~God~~ the AGI make a rock so heavy it cannot be lifted" Daj#7482: It can but I think that's wrong since I expect s-risk with high probability
Daj#7482: By default Daj#7482: Yes, cryptography lol bmk#1476: idk about you but as a fellow thing i prefer not being broken ersatz#0001: weird, why that? bmk#1476: oh i'm interested in hearing the case for this bmk#1476: i think of s-risk as unlikely-but-really-bad, not default scenario UnsupervisedLearner#4148: It's okay as long as the breaker has more aesthetic value. Like, I require a certain amount of land resources to feed my existence and I also don't feel guilt because my human self is more interesting than what otherwise exist Daj#7482: I expect the "default" AIs we build will either be naive "preference optimizers" that lead to Slaaneshi scenarios, profit maximizers that paperclip the universe with valueless "profit" or military AI that results in [SCREAMING] mgostIH#0245: What if the AI proves P = NP Daj#7482: God can't save you now UnsupervisedLearner#4148: The best way to fight the paperclip maximizer is another maximizer that maximizes fighting the first one :) Daj#7482: See the "except when they build super weapons" argument mgostIH#0245: Hey, it worked with nuclear bombs Daj#7482: Optimizers fighting sounds fun until one figures out a vacuum decay bomb or something Daj#7482: It might work out UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Build a superdefense AI Daj#7482: This seems like a likely scenario Daj#7482: Some kind of MAD multipolar outcome ersatz#0001: I expect death if an AGI is misaligned, not the worst torture imaginable for the greatest number of sentient beings possible as with an aligned AGI with its utility function reversed mgostIH#0245: SAME
Daj#7482: But that's a _huge_ failure compared to the heavenly existence we _could_ have gotten mgostIH#0245: Was arguing about it the other day UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Maybe not even death but we're just kinda sidelined like racoons Daj#7482: I think the most likely source of s-risk is military AI and mindcrime Daj#7482: Security through obscurity is not security mgostIH#0245: We already have mindcrime, it's called AI Dungeon Daj#7482: Just "not telling the AI what humans don't like" wouldn't prevent a maliciously aligned AGI from figuring it out Daj#7482: Or a neutral AGI from simulating morally relevant minds for experiments bmk#1476: @Daj what do you think the probability of s-risk agi conditional on some unaligned agi is? Daj#7482: Depends on how unaligned we're talking mgostIH#0245: Where s risk I think is intended as "Torture all conscious things" Daj#7482: "too high" is my answer bmk#1476: i mean just like marginal probability Daj#7482: :guilty: alstroemeria313#1694: no, that would result in it bringing the first one back to keep fighting it alstroemeria313#1694: for the rest of time Daj#7482: I dunno but uncomfortably high bmk#1476: like, what OOM? 10%? 1%? 0.0001%? mgostIH#0245: Get into the EVA, Connor, you need to fight the paperclip maximizer Daj#7482: Significantly >10%
bmk#1476: huh Daj#7482: I don't know what this means but alright cool alstroemeria313#1694: it's anime mgostIH#0245: It's a reference to some oooold anime mgostIH#0245: Called Evangelion mgostIH#0245: Where they put young kids into big ass mechs and fight each other lmao bmk#1476: because my intuition was that in the extreme of optimization, you only have exactly aligned, exactly antialigned, and literally everything else where "human suffering" is no longer a meaningful concept Daj#7482: YoUnG kIdS mgostIH#0245: Bro not my fault people at age < 18 exist Daj#7482: Yea that sounds sorta right Daj#7482: I'm also tired af Daj#7482: So not prime Connor brain atm lol bmk#1476: so in this framing, basicalyl the only way you could have s-risk is sign flip mgostIH#0245: Also another thing I wanted to tell you mgostIH#0245: One Punch Man is written by One Daj#7482: We must stop this. With a small donation, you can help stop people under 18 from existing mgostIH#0245: He made another anime ersatz#0001: what the fuck are those anime plot-tier stakes for fucks sake, >10% of the worse possible torture for all sentient beings in a few decades what the fucking fuck bmk#1476: any other objective will eventually become just everyone is dead and paperclipped mgostIH#0245: It's called Mob Psycho 100
Daj#7482: I disagree then. Mindcrime and suffering subroutines seems instrumentally useful to many paperclip maximizers Daj#7482: And military AI is a possibility for super antialigned bmk#1476: really? Daj#7482: lol someone Link that Mufflax post mgostIH#0245: what about Silicon Valley AI Daj#7482: Welcome to the club mgostIH#0245: Where its job is to give us ads for eternity bmk#1476: this sounds like you need acausal bullshit to justify mgostIH#0245: Smells like a Pascal Wager bmk#1476: Pascal's wager is not a fallacy if you have a universal prior fight me Daj#7482: Pascal Wager is just an excuse to ignore utilitarian calculations you don't like the results of :berk: mgostIH#0245: Nah bro I just run tanh on my utility function Daj#7482: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837421610679009340/rationality.png Daj#7482: :berk: mgostIH#0245: Isn't that the "You shouldn't be bayesian if you want catgirls for eternity" thing Daj#7482: It's someone reading Roko's SL5 post and going insane in real time lol mgostIH#0245: Yesss it is Daj#7482: Poor guy Daj#7482: I hear he's doing better nowadays mgostIH#0245: Line 3-4 of that
ersatz#0001: I can't wrap my head around the stakes, death for everyone is one thing, but valar morghulis anyway, the *worst possible torture for everyone* is too much, I can't live with this hanging over my head, I go into denial mode Daj#7482: Yea fair enough lol Daj#7482: You need to find _some_ way of discounting mgostIH#0245: bro it's all just a prank Daj#7482: Or just shut up and calculate :yes: bmk#1476: @Daj excluding acausal stuff, what kind of outcomes would turn into s-risks? Daj#7482: My entire philosophy can be summed up as " :yes: " Daj#7482: I've repeated myself like three times lol bmk#1476: the thing is it seems like maximizing suffering is complex to specify mgostIH#0245: Mark Zuckerberg gets his reptile hands on the paperclip maximizer, what do you do? bmk#1476: "military AI" is too vague Daj#7482: I actually expect suffering routines to be very easy since I expect most high entropy minds states to be painful Daj#7482: "AI with reward function that includes defeating the enemy" or threatening/blackmailing Daj#7482: Boom Daj#7482: gg mgostIH#0245: Maybe Connor is applying some sort of 4D chess GM thinking, he hates anime now so his pain existence will be watching all of them bmk#1476: how does that lead to s-risk in the long run? it seems like it would just disassemble the universe to maximize the probability of the enemy not existing bmk#1476: i dont share this intuition Daj#7482: Funny you mention this, this is an actual strategy called "proxy goals" iirc Daj#7482: But that's some deep DT voodoo
mgostIH#0245: This chat is all about Big clippy AI gf doing bdsm with you forever ersatz#0001: let's create the Lament Configuration guys! It might provide us with simulations where we could play out our power fantasies! what could go wrong? 🙂 Lorde Phenkka#7311: aye due to the wake of recent events, i have the desire to support the development of GPT neo, how can i in theory help :thonk: StellaAthena#3530: @Lorde Phenkka What's your DL skillset? There are some relatively accessible open issues at https://github.com/EleutherAI/gpt-neox/issues EricHallahan#1051: You should also maybe check out #off-topic. Lorde Phenkka#7311: ehhh I am still learning code soo I'm pretty far from being useful on the coding front, but I have some money here I saved that I can donate to the cause Lorde Phenkka#7311: I can try to steer myself to learn quicker tho, but it will still take a while to get to an useful front gwern#1782: hm. is there no entry in the FAQ for "no, we don't need $$$, unfortunately" https://www.eleuther.ai/faq/ ? gwern#1782: also really should have a linkable ToC. a FAQ isn't too helpful if you can't link to the specific question which has been so frequently asked cognomen#6297: `s/unfortunately/yet` cognomen#6297: "we're good for now, but thanks for your interest!" for the safe side StellaAthena#3530: Fair, I’ll do that this evening EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, I know I know EricHallahan#1051: I'll work on it now. gwern#1782: well yes, that's my point. it's a good thing to be bottlenecked by money, especially when so many people have enquired about throwing said money at us! money is easy and straightforward. other things like "our code just doesn't work and we can't figure out why :(" not so much EricHallahan#1051: I think it is in https://eleuther.ai/get-involved Teemochu#8740: About how much? I'd generally say $1M year-2000 USD is a decent lower bound for that number unless you have specific plans for any retirement to be very temporary (sabbatical). bmk#1476: idk tbh inox#5400: is that lower bound intended to live off passive income? you can go a lot lower if you're willing to exhaust resources Teemochu#8740: It's to allow a middle-class lifestyle in MCoL USA with some travel and any marital/kid status. Basically lets you take out $50K in *today's* money per year inflation adjusted.
Teemochu#8740: 3.3% SWR Quill#9732: (i.e. yes, passive income) nz#9710: would it not be better to save more and have a perpetual withdrawal rate? Teemochu#8740: Basically saying there are *very* few scenarios where I'd say retiring after only 10 years of experience is worth it, the lifestyle increase is almost always worth the extra working time. (Jumping to a money-making business endeavor is fine, sure, as long as you're willing to fail fast and don't spend much of your savings funding it) EricHallahan#1051: BTW, I can handle it. Teemochu#8740: I consider jumping to a labor-of-love (if either unpaid or unlikely to succeed... so *not* something like jumping to an established gamedev studio) to be retirement incidentally Teemochu#8740: Since you're no longer in the mindset of a positive savings rate inox#5400: alternatively go live in Chiang Mai for about $15,000 a year EricHallahan#1051: There is a certain way of handling it automatically by Hugo. FishofFlight#3096: So what's up with that? Why doesn't Eleuther need money? nz#9710: wow, I never heard of this place but it looks absolutely stunning Quill#9732: there's a corporate sponsor (coreweave) providing the hardware, which the the vast bulk of the costs FishofFlight#3096: Ahhhh inox#5400: I've heard Thailand basically lets you have infinite 90 day tourist visas so you can flagpole every three months ad infinitum inox#5400: I should probably check that StellaAthena#3530: That’s the largest, but we also have some other sponsors too nz#9710: it seems really cheap too StellaAthena#3530: At the end of the day it’s a lot of work to take small donations, and DL is *really* expensive StellaAthena#3530: I’ve been running an experiment on 18 A100s for over 24 straight hours StellaAthena#3530: That’s 1.3k from Google
StellaAthena#3530: The whole experiment will be like 8k or so StellaAthena#3530: And take four days StellaAthena#3530: We can’t raise 8k in four days StellaAthena#3530: People like us, but not *that* much inox#5400: that's all coming from google compute research grants? StellaAthena#3530: Ah no. This is from coreweave StellaAthena#3530: I’m using GCP credits as a benchmark StellaAthena#3530: CW also charges $3/GPU/hour though, so that’s also roughly the price it would take to buy what we are actually using gwern#1782: i too enjoy playing AI Dungeon in chiang mai with my cave diver friends 🤔 inox#5400: look it's the first digital nomad place I thought of gwern#1782: 🤔 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: you can do that anywhere in SEA tbh 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: although it can be a bit shady. So many remote workers, especially tech, make it out seem like they are there, meeting the culture, becoming one with the place. But mostly they are just evading taxes 🙂 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: that said, SEA is an amazing place with really great people. I was so surprised, coming from Greece, to meet others so welcoming UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Post a crypto wallet Lord_Drakostar#9337: i think gpt-neo should be put in scratch Teemochu#8740: LibreDungeon or bust. (Made up the name, sadly, but I mean the general concept of open-weights models running it, where in theory you could run it locally if you had a metric boatload of compute) Lord_Drakostar#9337: LibreDungeon? gwern#1782: astraliteheart *has* that! sorta. but better, because it comes with voice synthesis too gwern#1782: * may involve only ponies
Lord_Drakostar#9337: what Teemochu#8740: That is perfectly fine :sweetiescheming: But also you should check out NovelAI, link to their Discord is in offtopic. Lord_Drakostar#9337: many ais are being said right now gwern#1782: ie. a ~GPT-2-1.5b trained on MLP fanfics coupled with voice synthesis and emoji-based emotion control for dialogue in a very slick UX. it's pretty much done afaict, astraliteheart is just being perfectionist Lord_Drakostar#9337: half of the dumbest people in the world are the smartest people in the world 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: The UI is IS really slick Teemochu#8740: "May only involve ponies" Does that imply it was tuned on the fimfarchive? gwern#1782: yes alexyz#3459: That already exists! alexyz#3459: I shared it up earlier today! alexyz#3459: https://colab.research.google.com/github/finetuneanon/gpt-neo_dungeon/blob/master/gpt-neo_dungeon.ipynb alexyz#3459: It's finetuned GPT-Neo gwern#1782: who made it? 'finetuneanon'? EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, that is just finetune's notebook. gwern#1782: 'horni was finetuned for one epoch on about 800MB worth of random blocks of text from the one dataset distributed by EleutherAI that is excluded from the pile dataset. ' ie literotica? EricHallahan#1051: I can only assume? bmk#1476: @finetune can pls change to just say "literotica"
bmk#1476: @finetune bmk#1476: setting aside the fact that we don't actually distribute it, this is unnecessarily confusing anyways alexyz#3459: Yeah it's basically just erotica lol bmk#1476: The Eye distributes the literotica dataset alexyz#3459: here's the github: https://github.com/finetuneanon/gpt-neo_dungeon alexyz#3459: i think I remember seeing somewhere it says "not made by Eleuther" but I can't find it now bmk#1476: right at the top lol bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837505320078540830/unknown.png alexyz#3459: found it i must be blind gwern#1782: (this is ripe for a 'he protect but he also attac' meme somewhere) alexyz#3459: It does work though, and it's an interesting idea lol alexyz#3459: it gives quality which is kinda on-par with the original AIDungeon alexyz#3459: i remember using the original one from Colab, that was fun cfoster0#4356: Y'all know of any AI research labs that are particularly remote friendly? Particularly if one might be bouncing around a bit over the first year or so cfoster0#4356: *Asking for a friend, of course* Teemochu#8740: Yeah that's sorta the precursor to NovelAI's thing (finetune is a dev on their group) Teemochu#8740: Was released before the drama, about a week ago alexyz#3459: wait really? alexyz#3459: what drama? Teemochu#8740: AI dungeon stuff yesterday
Teemochu#8740: Tldr censorship alexyz#3459: wasn't there a big leak or something alexyz#3459: on Github EricHallahan#1051: Are you not aware of the drama? alexyz#3459: I really am not Teemochu#8740: And enough privacy and security concerns that I'd recommend staying away, deleting your account, and filing a GDPR request alexyz#3459: Yeah there was a big leak alexyz#3459: i know that gwern#1782: the (second) leak is only the *other* drama gwern#1782: doesn't rain but it pours kindiana#1016: just check the subreddit lol :berk: alexyz#3459: that's probably not a good sign Teemochu#8740: I wrote a summary in the TPU Podcast server, text channel alexyz#3459: What channel there? alexyz#3459: Ah ok alexyz#3459: Oof that's not good for them alexyz#3459: But like alexyz#3459: couldn't someone else just use the GPT-3 API and make an equivalent one? bmk#1476: aid have done custom fine tuning and whatever gwern#1782: maybe. OA might not be so enamored or give the same terms. and it's a decent amount of infrastructure to recreate from scratch
gwern#1782: nick et al have been at this for a *while* now alexyz#3459: custom finetuning on the 175M model? alexyz#3459: 🤔 alexyz#3459: maybe on the Griffin model EricHallahan#1051: Apparently all of them. alexyz#3459: i hope so 🙂 alexyz#3459: Really? bmk#1476: B* yes EricHallahan#1051: Dragon is apparently fine-tuned, or so I am told. gwern#1782: sure, they've been at this since before gpt-2, I think, nick was already messing with storytelling models gwern#1782: before gpt-2! who even remembers the before-times mkualquiera#3484: First mistake was depending on OAI. This is precisely why we need an open alternative :berk: alexyz#3459: OpenAI just decides who can and can't finetune I guess alexyz#3459: yep Teemochu#8740: I think a lot of people have recently learned that you always need an alternative to relying on flashy platforms. Teemochu#8740: (Recently as in past years) Teemochu#8740: The flashier and platformier it is, the more you should look for alternatives in Moldova. EricHallahan#1051: Well there is a reason that people choose to have parts second-sourced. Teemochu#8740: (The Moldova thing isn't totally hypothetical... Trabia is a server host that is very exit-node friendly, and that should tell you everything.) EricHallahan#1051: Your system is not robust until you have redundancy.
alexyz#3459: Eastern Europe seems to make interesting things for some reason mkualquiera#3484: The problem is these big companies make it hard to have redundancy. Like all the companies that use Amazon as their backend, literally what else can they do? EricHallahan#1051: \*AWS alexyz#3459: like the literal technology behind Snapchat, Instagram, and basically all those filters was originally from Ukraine alexyz#3459: then it was sold to American companies :/ Dromarion#3383: Honestly I just want an AI co-writer who's there to continue my train of thought or just provide ideas or directions on where to take things. And I think its a good thing for there to be more projects like that. 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: That is interesting. I wonder how many people are writing their own stories now that aid is down 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: Feels most of the writing is in discord xhannels 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: The problem of dependency goes deeper than who owns the model imo, the tool is part of the issue Teemochu#8740: They basically said OpenAI forced their hand on it, so no, someone else couldn't without adding the same kind of filtering. gwern#1782: but there's also the narrative that the co-founder has gone berserk and the whole mess is going way beyond anything OA required Teemochu#8740: Yeah Alan was a bit unhinged in the Discord that night. But the Occam's interpretation is that I would be too if I was told to implement something or be deplatformed, right after hearing a disclosure of a data breach. gwern#1782: so there is truth to that story? Dromarion#3383: Well I was writing my own stories before, using AID just made it more fun. Though I'm pretty sure some users(coomers) had become dependent on it. 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: I see this as a great opportunity for tool innovation tbh. Take the lessons a whole community learned and apply them to the new thing coming alexyz#3459: I just wish that 1. OpenAI lived up to their name and 2. some alternative is created or released by someone alexyz#3459: Wouldn't it be amazing if Google created an alternative and released it? alexyz#3459: Then again
alexyz#3459: they don't really release their models either alexyz#3459: They made this chatbot model alexyz#3459: with like 6B params Teemochu#8740: OpenAI: more like "sorry, we don't release our model because we don't want it '''misused''' [but are more than willing to let Microsoft use it]"AI alexyz#3459: and then never released it alexyz#3459: even after being asked lol gwern#1782: they might still. sometimes it takes a long time to go through legal. I imagine chatbots like meena take even longer gwern#1782: but look at things like mT5 alexyz#3459: Yes, but Facebook threw a bigger one out like a month later along with the paper alexyz#3459: i forgot the specific bot names but it's strange gwern#1782: sure, but they still did it. and google doesn't *have* anything larger than mT5 publicly, aside from the MoEs alexyz#3459: T5 is interesting alexyz#3459: I wish they did that, but for something like GPT EricHallahan#1051: T5 is far more useful though. EricHallahan#1051: Like it is a swiss-army knife. alexyz#3459: What do you mean? 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: going from one monopoly to the next is not my idea of open sourcing lol alexyz#3459: I mean Google actually open sourced it 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: what's next, 'imagine if Amazon did another one?' alexyz#3459: Just because Google makes it doesn't mean there should be a grudge against it
EricHallahan#1051: There are many diverse tasks it can complete well. 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: what does it matter if GPT3 was open sourced anyways, would you have the means to create Dungeon stories? gwern#1782: T5 did nothing wrong! leave T5ney aloooonnnneeee 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: the monopoly is at deployment imo alexyz#3459: No, but someone would lol gwern#1782: I think people would just crowdsource hosting of GPT-3-175b scale models. I mean, how big is the intermediate activations? can't be more than megabytes, right? that's totally doable as a P2P donated-GPU thing. the latency wouldn't be too great, but just for forward passes, wouldn't it work fine? gwern#1782: (and activations seem like they'd be highly compressible to boot) kindiana#1016: latency would be horrendous gwern#1782: sure, distributed *training* is hopeless, but doing forward passes collectively... EricHallahan#1051: Inference would *potentially* be possible. EricHallahan#1051: But not *good*. EricHallahan#1051: It would be a pain to maintain. kindiana#1016: if you want just one token per second, each layer would need 10ms latency gwern#1782: if people donate like a 16GB gaming GPU, then you'd need like 40 units, even lousy consumer connections can do a few MB/s upload, so the transmission would use up a few seconds. and it might not be as great as a bunch of MS azure gpus hooked together over infiniband or whatever, but it'd be *free* and FLOSS EricHallahan#1051: The latency would be horrendous gwern#1782: but it wouldn't be infinite or like, 'an hour' kindiana#1016: I wouldn't call a few seconds per token usable lol gwern#1782: as opposed to what alternative? alexyz#3459: latency schatency alexyz#3459: but like
alexyz#3459: Even if OpenAI released GPT-3 gwern#1782: what's the latency of AID repeating "The AI doesn't know what to say" alexyz#3459: they'd probably still have to have an API kindiana#1016: paying cw/hf or whatever to host the model, lol bmk#1476: it might be genuinely better to mine eth on contributor's gpus and then use the money to pay for a cluster than to figure out distributed training lol gwern#1782: _'s whole point is that he's not talking about training_ alexyz#3459: because basically nobody could *practically* run it alexyz#3459: except maybe @gwern's idea of distributed *inference* bmk#1476: inference would still be implausible too bmk#1476: latency is the big bottleneck of inference bmk#1476: and the latency is going to be horrible gwern#1782: we are all agreed distributed training appears too terrible to work. my suggestion is that distributing inference may be just not terrible enough to be better than how terrible AID is right now EricHallahan#1051: M O E cognomen#6297: could be possible to sample a reasonable argmax from a dmoe LM but the overall distribution would suffer gwern#1782: @alexyz does this horni torrent actually work? alexyz#3459: @gwern I don't really know, I had to download the entire file to my computer, and then uploaded it to my Google Drive and then put it through like that gwern#1782: whoever's running it should check and maybe provide a .torrent to download instead, I've been stuck at the magnet for like an hour plus Teemochu#8740: @gwern saw your reddit post in mediasynthesis... slight correction, finetune doesn't just lurk, he's a dev on the project Louis#0144: Ok so what if we use their computers to generate pictures of goose girls Louis#0144: Which we then sacrifice to neo 1T
Louis#0144: 1 goose girl per token gwern#1782: I wasn't sure to what sense horni was a 'NovelAI' project as opposed to where the horni dev hung out Teemochu#8740: It predates NovelAI (it's from a /vg/ thread on the 17th of this month iirc) Teemochu#8740: but "lurk" is a strange way to describe an admin position 😛 Kia#2550: What's NovelAi, Been hearing that currently in Twitter? Teemochu#8740: Right now it's mostly a Discord for people angry at the AI Dungeon changes. But it's planned to be an alternative, and there's a decent amount of discussion from finetune et al about current alternatives. https://discord.gg/DAXeRNXXvg Kia#2550: Thanks for saying Kia#2550: Saying Kia#2550: Thanks kurumuz#5695: i think horni tune was by finetuneanon, and he is in our team bmk#1476: @researcher2 is it possible to do something like tqdm-multiprocessing where the progress bars are not necessarily tqdm bars (i.e rsync bars)? Teemochu#8740: yeah it was by finetune, I was saying Gwern described finetune as a "lurker" of your Discord in his Reddit comment [which he has edited out] finetune#0907: sorry, it's changed finetune#0907: i actually don't have any admin rights, just a red name :berk: Deleted User#0000: does MADGRAD work on TPU? Deleted User#0000: i tried it and it threw an error complaining about cuda kindiana#1016: i mean it should..? Deleted User#0000: ``` File "/home/guillefix/.local/lib/python3.7/site-packages/madgrad/madgrad.py", line 81, in step loss = closure()
RuntimeError: Cannot re-initialize CUDA in forked subprocess. To use CUDA with multiprocessing, you must use the 'spawn' start method ``` kindiana#1016: idk if the specific impl you are using requires cuda Deleted User#0000: is what it says Deleted User#0000: im using the official facebook implementation Deleted User#0000: (which is for pytorch) kindiana#1016: 🤷 kindiana#1016: doesn't look like it uses anything explicitly cuda Deleted User#0000: tbh its probably x-transformers Deleted User#0000: thats causing the cuda thing inspiration101#2728: I have created a working version of a gpt-neo sandbox: https://github.com/boredom101/gpt-neo-sandbox Deleted User#0000: yep it is x-transformers Deleted User#0000: i dont know why thats happening though, as theres no cuda in the machine EricHallahan#1051: The docs say it needs CUDA IIRC. Deleted User#0000: well it seems to be working now, when using pytorch's transformer layers rather than x-transformer's Deleted User#0000: how is the memory consumption of madgrad relative to adam? EricHallahan#1051: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ kindiana#1016: same I believe mkualquiera#3484: I know how that feels AerysS#5558: A bit off-topic. I use `tqdm.autonotebook` to run the iterator. It is in a .py file and I want to use notebook to run. I can run it using `!python main.py`, but the tqdm behaves like it is from console, and I have to copy-paste the code to make it behaves like in notebook. Is there a way I can run it directly? andyljones#7746: if the contents of `main` isn't guarded by `if __name__`, `from main import *` should do it
researcher2#9294: There's various implementations of hooking into rsync progress with python floating around, I would suggest just feeding their data into the job specific tqdm in tqdm-multiprocess if you're using this. However I'm guessing that this question is related to pyfra and you aren't looking to use tqdm per-se but just passing stuff back in a queue. tqdm-multiprocess is probably a decent place to start because at minimum it will handle sigint and log passing for you. researcher2#9294: haven't looked at pyfra recently but do you have api and javascript frontend for the progress bars? dnbaker#8211: Hi! I'm a CS grad student, and some of my prior work can be seen here (https://github.com/dnbaker/). My original background is physics, and I worked in molecular diagnostics for a few years. I'm looking to get involved and contribute, perhaps in the alphafold area. 👋 EricHallahan#1051: Welcome! inspiration101#2728: I am open to suggestions for things to add or change with the sandbox sergiu#7174: hi everyone, I'm a computational linguist working in the area of translation studies, second language acquisition, and psycholinguistics (http://nlp.unibuc.ro/people/snisioi.html). I've been complaining about the AI monopoly of large corporations for a long time and I find this whole initiative amazing. Would love to contribute with something so I'm looking around here to see whether there's anything open and suitable for my knowledge. Cheers! EricHallahan#1051: Welcome! bmk#1476: the hard part for me is i don't know how to detect a progress bar in a thread and then offset each one so they don't interact researcher2#9294: Lets spec this out. You have multiple tasks running in different threads. Each keeps a progress state that you want to expose in a view in the main thread? We are only using threads here and not processes? Processes are slightly more involved but still easily doable. researcher2#9294: "detect a progress bar", not sure what this means? bmk#1476: i have multiple different instances of bash bmk#1476: some have progress bars researcher2#9294: Sounds like it's command specific researcher2#9294: I've been meaning to try this out but never got around to it researcher2#9294: https://libbits.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/get-total-rsync-progress-using-python/ researcher2#9294: Once you have that you can pass updates back through tqdm-multiprocess (or straight tqdm if you're only using threads).
researcher2#9294: in the multiprocess case even if you're not using tqdm chui you could just query it and send updates to the frontend nedstark#8047: Who is the resident fairness in A.I. expert here? StellaAthena#3530: Me, probably aze#1010: thought this is an appropiate place to ask, how large of an input can the T5 model take? aze#1010: (https://github.com/google-research/multilingual-t5) StellaAthena#3530: That’s a great question to ask on the GitHub repo you linked to. We didn’t make that aze#1010: alright, just thought maybe someone here used it before Sid#2121: the sequence length is 512 iirc CRG#8707: Might be able to be expanded thanks to the RPE. Sphinx#2092: It's 1024 max length. Sphinx#2092: But nothing stops you from feeding in more (other than hardware constraints). Sphinx#2092: YMMV, of course. iamnazzty#6924: We are the India Crypto Covid Relief group (cryptorelief.in) supported by Vitalik Buterin and Balaji Srinivasan. We are doing COVID19 relief work matching demand and supply across the country. There are thousands of requests coming in from Twitter every hour and we were able to classify the tweets and extract keywords for our volunteers. We used OpenAI and but they are closed and no reply from them for help. We are now looking at gpt-neo but need help implementing it technically and also making it cheap for us to be able to do this without looking for millions of $. Please DM if you can support. You can also join our Discord if you want to help. bmk#1476: @iamnazzty we don't really help with downstream applications of neo bmk#1476: also, no advertising in this server please iamnazzty#6924: please don't disregard this as advertising. we are doing serious relief work as volunteers. StellaAthena#3530: ... That doesn't mean it's not advertising. Louis#0144: You are free to chat here as it pertains to Neo or EleutherAI projects but please do not solicit Louis#0144: /advertise Quill#9732: eleutherAI doesn't host models, huggingface (<https://huggingface.co/pricing>) may be more relevant to your needs
mgostIH#0245: Do you know what people in India need to face the current pandemic? Blockchain. Louis#0144: Blockchain and IoT Louis#0144: Use all the energy that could have been used to save lives to mint nfts Louis#0144: I met vitalik many years ago Louis#0144: The guy has almost entirely lost touch Louis#0144: It’s kinda sad tbh Louis#0144: Speculatively I think it comes down to greed but idk Louis#0144: This was four ish years ago Louis#0144: Could have been he was just having a bad day Louis#0144: He and I were at a bar together Louis#0144: I was sitting across from him Louis#0144: We have a mutual friend inox#5400: huh mining early with ethereum was a different proposition to mining early with bitcoin because you already got to see what happened Louis#0144: Yeah Louis#0144: He wasn’t a dumb guy, he was stereotypical smart Canadian Louis#0144: IOI medalist inox#5400: for sure cfoster0#4356: He seems like the most grounded crypto person out there, to me Louis#0144: That doesn’t say much Louis#0144: That’s how i felt too before I met him
gwern#1782: "lost touch" in what sense? he seemed pretty normal when I hung out with him back in 2015 Louis#0144: I didn’t hangout with him in 3015 but when I saw him in like 2016 he was only talking about money making and not big picture of contracts. That and he didn’t really seem convinced the big picture of contracts was his goal Louis#0144: If that makes sense Louis#0144: I don’t remember exactly what got discussed Louis#0144: But all I remember is that it was less contracts as a whole more of where would this bring *me* and the ETH community Louis#0144: Bitcoin had just spiked like crazy tho UnsupervisedLearner#4148: You mean publicly auditable donations where you can track every single transaction and ensure your money goes towards relief? Yeah that's such a stupid idea Louis#0144: So maybe that’s why Louis#0144: As if it would make a difference Louis#0144: As soon as it’s cashed you don’t know how it’s being laundered Louis#0144: It’s just security theatre Louis#0144: Doesnt do shit UnsupervisedLearner#4148: So you hate donations in general? Louis#0144: No of course not Louis#0144: I just think this extra abstraction doesn’t do much Louis#0144: I do donate UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Okay so you hate the fact the donations are auditable and tractable? Or hate donating towards covid causes? cfoster0#4356: I don't find myself agreeing with Louis' crypto takes often but this I agree with fully Louis#0144: I’m not going to argue against this straw man UnsupervisedLearner#4148: You're the one presenting a strawman, when you say "oh, well you just know how the money is laundered now"
cfoster0#4356: Come to think of it, this conversation is absolutely #off-topic TheGantian#2451: Transformers question: If I want to get the token length of a string before feeding it into generator(), is the easiest way to feed the string into a GPT2Tokenizer and then count the length of the output array, or is there a more direct method? Louis#0144: Nope Louis#0144: Do that TheGantian#2451: Perfect, thanks Louis#0144: Tokenization is basically free Trainmaster9977#3932: hey so....a few days ago, came on here for gpt-neo help. for a few reasons, I had to step away for a bit in terms of AI stuff. but now that im back and trying to get huggingface working....I. realized I didn't entirely know how to get stuff from the finetuned model. I could use the HF stuff to finetune it, but couldnt figure out how to get stuff out of it. (And yes, I checked the thing they provided for stuff to upload it and. it didnt exactly. work.) I know this. isn't supposed to be technical support but like before, I got no other ideas of where to ask. If you want to ignore this message though, thats valid finetune#0907: you can pm me if you want AI_WAIFU#2844: You can also try the hugging face forums https://discuss.huggingface.co/ AI_WAIFU#2844: #off-topic bmk#1476: @Deleted User deleted for off topic Lord_Drakostar#9337: Hello? EricHallahan#1051: Hello? Lord_Drakostar#9337: Hi I should probably figure out how to work GPT-Neo on my gpu now Lord_Drakostar#9337: because why waste money on colab pro when you have a 2060 Lord_Drakostar#9337: but yeah help pls EricHallahan#1051: You should be able to fit 1.3B Lord_Drakostar#9337: well yes but it's so slow
Lord_Drakostar#9337: also why when ive got gpt-2 1.5B EricHallahan#1051: Because 1.3B stronk and stomps GPT-2 XL Lord_Drakostar#9337: oh Lord_Drakostar#9337: well i still want to run 1.3B at a reasonable speed Lord_Drakostar#9337: and i want to run 2.7B at all EricHallahan#1051: You can try to load it at half-precision. kindiana#1016: yeah I have doubts it will work lol Lord_Drakostar#9337: could i just Lord_Drakostar#9337: could i just run it with my gpu and have the full thing kindiana#1016: you do not have enough vram without additional tricks Lord_Drakostar#9337: wdym EricHallahan#1051: 2.7B is 10 GB at binary32 EricHallahan#1051: You only got 6 GiB of VRAM. Lord_Drakostar#9337: how do you know that EricHallahan#1051: Because that is the spec for the 2060? Lord_Drakostar#9337: ohhhh Lord_Drakostar#9337: fair enough, i dont know compooters well Lord_Drakostar#9337: well anyways could i use gpt-neo 1.3B at a reasonable speed at least EricHallahan#1051: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837849733783224320/unknown.png EricHallahan#1051: Just as a citation
Lord_Drakostar#9337: got it Lord_Drakostar#9337: anyhoo Lord_Drakostar#9337: so Lord_Drakostar#9337: how do i do it Lord_Drakostar#9337: i still wanna at least run 1.3B Sid#2121: use this colab https://colab.research.google.com/drive/17MhFnXeHE7ZnLo2vlQ1Htqm03_X1ULqm?usp=sharing#scrollTo=6dy3EEFGKJuR Lord_Drakostar#9337: but that's not what im saying Lord_Drakostar#9337: i want to run it on my gpu Lord_Drakostar#9337: so it doesn't take ages Sid#2121: then copy and paste the code from the colab Sid#2121: and run it on your gpu Lord_Drakostar#9337: oh wait really? EricHallahan#1051: You should be able to adapt it to run locally with a trivial amount of work. Lord_Drakostar#9337: it gave me an error Sid#2121: also i guarantee that it will be faster on colab than on your 2060 Lord_Drakostar#9337: what do you mean Lord_Drakostar#9337: the colab gpus are really low level Sid#2121: i mean... the words that i said Lord_Drakostar#9337: right? Lord_Drakostar#9337: NameError Traceback (most recent call last)
<ipython-input-1-fe66b9bb03c0> in <module>() 1 prompt = "In a shocking finding, scientists discovered a herd of unicorns living in a remote, " "previously unexplored valley, in the Andes Mountains. Even more surprising to the " "researchers was the fact that the unicorns spoke perfect English." 2 ----> 3 gen_text = predict(prompt) 4 print(gen_text) NameError: name 'predict' is not defined Lord_Drakostar#9337: also Sid#2121: you need to run the first cell Lord_Drakostar#9337: oh sorry yeah Lord_Drakostar#9337: i figured it out Sid#2121: not really https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837852427998593066/Screenshot_from_2021-05-01_02-46-07.png Lord_Drakostar#9337: aren't you using Pro tho? Sid#2121: you can still sometimes get v100s on non pro iirc Sid#2121: also P100s Lord_Drakostar#9337: im assuming those are better than 2060s 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: WAY better Sid#2121: yes. I'm not sure about the lower end colab ones but i'm pretty sure even the K80 which is the most common one i think? is much better 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: P100 has 16gb so EricHallahan#1051: If you get a T4 it should *still* be better.
𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: and it's quite common to get one, well sometimes Lord_Drakostar#9337: so put it on a scale of 180-3090 bmk#1476: a reminder that we don't do tech support Sid#2121: Pinned a message. Sid#2121: yeah i pinned the colab so i can just point people at that in the future lol EricHallahan#1051: Thanks. bmk#1476: perfect, so i can just be like [taps sign] in the future Lord_Drakostar#9337: neat EricHallahan#1051: A T4 should be on par or better than your RTX 2060, and I think that is near the bottom of the stack of what you can get. Lord_Drakostar#9337: https://gpt.contentyze.com/editor/new/ideas unless gpt-neo is wack then this doesn't use gpt-neo Lord_Drakostar#9337: "10000 Police used Minecraft to More Happiness Lord_Drakostar#9337: " EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, we figured out that it most likely doesn't. Lord_Drakostar#9337: the error message had a typo lol Lord_Drakostar#9337: "Errro Lord_Drakostar#9337: " Lord_Drakostar#9337: any apps that do use gpt-neo Lord_Drakostar#9337: ? EricHallahan#1051: Not many right now.
Kia#2550: What's the current size of GPT-neo? In parameters (Nonetheless wish for the best for the Devs.) EricHallahan#1051: Model sizes publicly available today are 125M, 1.3B, and 2.7B. Kia#2550: Thanks for the help Louis#0144: You shouldn’t really use 125 except for testing FWIW EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, 125M is kinda lame. EricHallahan#1051: GPT-2 Small is pretty easy to train to capacity. gwern#1782: no. you get TPUs. that is it. everything else is on you. if you beg, they may be able to shake loose a $200 GCP credit or something, but then that'll be it EricHallahan#1051: *TRC (Sorry, I am trying to condition people to change lol) gwern#1782: you need to pay for buckets and VMs and any bandwidth (remember, ingress is free, egress is *very expensive*, and cross-region = egress) gwern#1782: the good news is that you only need 1 VM to drive a bunch of pods if you use tensorflow gwern#1782: if you run 1 VM to drive a pod, that's like $300/month or so total costs assuming you don't do anything stupid gwern#1782: probably less gwern#1782: tensorfork costs more like $400/month but we have big buckets and other stuff gwern#1782: @ww if you are interested in the topic of using TFRC, we've been on it for years now at Tensorfork EricHallahan#1051: \*TRC EricHallahan#1051: :berk: gwern#1782: TRC? EricHallahan#1051: https://sites.research.google/trc bmk#1476: my family still calls russia "the soviet union" because my parents are just used to it lol gwern#1782: The Program Formerly Known as TFRC
bmk#1476: let's compromise and say that TFRC stands for Tensor pFrocessing unit Research Cloud gwern#1782: _nixes kneeling to needless nomenclature nihilism. I say it's TFRC and I say to hell with TRC_ bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/837873513737617470/update_your_address.png bmk#1476: i come from a long line of people who hate updating stuff bmk#1476: it helps that "soviet union" and "russia" are both two characters/syllables in chinese bmk#1476: 俄国/苏联 triggerhappygandi#0001: pro flex Teemochu#8740: You know what that means. EricHallahan#1051: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Colab fix the thing where data fetching takes forever? ThreeBagsFull#0426: Where can I read some cool outputs from the largest current model? EricHallahan#1051: What do you mean by this? Are you just looking for some samples? I'm trying to understand the intent. paulbricman#2527: Is there any roadmap available for other sizes? StellaAthena#3530: What do you mean? If you want to train a model of another size you can just change the size in the configs. Teemochu#8740: Roadmap meaning timeline for release Teemochu#8740: probably paulbricman#2527: Yeah I was just curious if you plan on releasing other pretrained models for us mortals cfoster0#4356: Absolutely, once we have em 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: Don't know how the lab is, but SEA would be amazing for that imo after you can travel easily. I guess NUS might have some nice work? But not much else. kurumuz#5695: god bless
ThreeBagsFull#0426: Yes some sample outputs of cool things generated with the models EricHallahan#1051: There are many social media posts that have samples, but unfortunately it seems like people tend to not distinguish between model sizes when doing so. `:\` ASDF#9954: Hello - is there a reason why the 350M model is not available on the Huggingface model hub? searching through the organization models I can only see the 125M, 1.3B and 2.7B models. I am working on a Rust port of these models and would like to offer the 350M model as well (the 125M version produces great results for its size) StellaAthena#3530: @ASDF We don’t have a 350M model that’s trained and ready to use yet EricHallahan#1051: Well that is a better way of putting it than I was going to. ASDF#9954: I am almost certain I tried it out at work last week but can't see it anymore. I may be wrong ASDF#9954: thanks for the quick answer finetune#0907: looking at the attention weights from the dense attention layers in gpt-neo-2.7b is interesting. might be because i'm just averaging attention weights over all layers and heads, but for sequences below 1000 tokens long or so, usually the first token gets the most attention, followed by the last one so far. later on it gets a bit more varied EricHallahan#1051: Do you happen to have any pictures? finetune#0907: need to run it again. i just tried it with small gpt2, looks similar EricHallahan#1051: Would make sense. finetune#0907: i guess the first token's just really important EricHallahan#1051: I forget what the positional encoding is. finetune#0907: lists the top eight average weights at each generated token: https://gist.github.com/finetuneanon/dca45407b193bc6ff9b53ba872492056 Sid#2121: I forget the paper that showed this, but I'm pretty sure the first token receives the most attention almost universally :thonk: finetune#0907: it's pretty much always in the top 3 highest weights from what i've seen Deleted User#0000: do you mean a token to itself? Deleted User#0000: or the one next to it? Sid#2121: I'm assuming he means the one next to it Sid#2121: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1905.04226.pdf this paper i think was the one i'm thinking of
finetune#0907: i meant the very first token in the prompt receiving a lot of attention Sid#2121: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838078709692628992/Screenshot_from_2021-05-01_17-45-24.png finetune#0907: the one preceeding the one being currently generated is usually second place Sid#2121: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838078813358391326/Screenshot_from_2021-05-01_17-45-47.png Deleted User#0000: ohhh Deleted User#0000: yes, i know about this Sid#2121: it should differ according to layers Deleted User#0000: you mean on the <bos>? finetune#0907: yes Deleted User#0000: yup Deleted User#0000: so that's the network learning to do a null computation Deleted User#0000: some attention nets explicitly add a null token finetune#0907: i'm averaging all the layers Deleted User#0000: when the <bos> is not there Sid#2121: there's a 'blur' layers in the earlier layers that roughly average across tokens, 'window' layers which focus heavily on local positions, and 'structured' layers in the later stages finetune#0907: interesting Deleted User#0000: basically, sometimes the network needs to not focus on anything Deleted User#0000: there are papers investigating this kurumuz#5695: that makes sense Deleted User#0000: i like to extend that to memory key / values sometimes
Deleted User#0000: so it can decide on multiple different types of computation finetune#0907: line breaks and punctuation are also popular Sphinx#2092: There was some work last year trying to exploit this to detect hallucination. Deleted User#0000: the latter is just me speculating though, after reading the all-attention paper Deleted User#0000: ohh interesting Deleted User#0000: yea, i think this area needs more research, but that explains your finding finetune finetune#0907: yes, makes sense finetune#0907: very interesting finetune#0907: some things in there just look reasonable from looking at it, which is nice too, like opening '(' being paid attention to until there's a ')' EricHallahan#1051: I would expect that to be really strong in GPT-Neo considering how good it is with code. Sphinx#2092: https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.08684 Sphinx#2092: I'm not sure how much extends to Transformer, but it's nice. StellaAthena#3530: I wonder if context packing influences this StellaAthena#3530: This seems like something that could be exploitable in batch evals Deleted User#0000: do we have a <bos> token for gpt neo? Deleted User#0000: i don't even remember Deleted User#0000: lol StellaAthena#3530: Like, let’s say you but it in eval mode and compare a sentence to that same sentence with some random prefix Deleted User#0000: oh we have that <startoftext> token bmk#1476: i dont think so
bmk#1476: theres no startoftext token i think Deleted User#0000: we could always just add it within the network bmk#1476: why would we need one? StellaAthena#3530: If you map out how the attention patterns change when k bits are prepended, you can probably use that to design exploits Deleted User#0000: i like that better than shifting the responsibility onto the tokenizer Deleted User#0000: we may not need one actually. i have a feeling the network pulls some tricks if it doesn't have the null token Deleted User#0000: more just superstition atm based on a few papers Deleted User#0000: but it wouldn't hurt to add it Deleted User#0000: the idea is to just give the network the ability to attend to nothing cfoster0#4356: What input does neo use to predict the first token, then? :thonk: bmk#1476: you cant use neo to predict the second token, but also you don't have to bmk#1476: the first token is just a simple distribution over 50256 tokens lol bmk#1476: https://gist.github.com/leogao2/ae53973b1281dad4422605bca4f89637 thankfully someone has already computed that distribution by literally just counting how many of each token there are cfoster0#4356: Wait what lol cfoster0#4356: What token goes in that elicits that distribution? bmk#1476: wdym bmk#1476: neo only gives probability distributions conditional on 1 or more tokens bmk#1476: neo can't tell you first token distrivution bmk#1476: but you dont need neo to do that bmk#1476: 1-token probability with no context is literally just the first order "how many of each token are there"
cfoster0#4356: Do we pack multiple sequences together? cfoster0#4356: In training bmk#1476: yeah cfoster0#4356: Is there like an EOS or separator token then? bmk#1476: yes cfoster0#4356: Ah ok. Kharr#7888: When you tokenized the data, did you pad with text and use the EOS token as document separator to fill the 2048 context window? inspiration101#2728: Is anyone interested in the gpt-neo sandbox? EricHallahan#1051: Is it in a GitHub repo? inspiration101#2728: Yes, https://github.com/boredom101/gpt-neo-sandbox EricHallahan#1051: I would be happy to check it out when I find time. inspiration101#2728: Thank you mgostIH#0245: sandboxing AIs huh bmk#1476: *angry alignment noises* inspiration101#2728: It's a tool to quickly create a demo web app aze#1010: is anyone here from the US and is willing to purchase a Gradient ML subscription for me? (Paperspace) I would pay extra obviously, with paypal or crypto, or whatever else (maybe you can use privacy.com for disposable credit cards which I would use ?) Serge#0241: What config from `configs` folder should I use to run GPT-Neo after I've downloaded the 2.7B model? haru#1367: just out of curiosity, why can't you do it yourself? aze#1010: i dont have a credit card Serge#0241: `python3 main.py --predict --prompt prompt.txt --gpu_ids device:GPU:0 --model gpt3_2-7B_256` gives me `AssertionError: Dataset 'openwebtext-documents' was not found under dataset_configs/ folder. Please follow the example.json in that folder.`
Serge#0241: I don't have `openwebtext-documents`, but I have a bunch of `model.ckpt-*.data-*-of-64` I've downloaded Serge#0241: not sure how to point the script to them Serge#0241: or should I use the notebook instead Serge#0241: ok I figured I should call it with the config file from the downloaded model. now it spits out this: https://paste.ofcode.org/yRz6yya8LEF8XzxqzHa6rt Serge#0241: why would it need auth to google? I want to use local GPU EricHallahan#1051: Just use Hugging Face Transformers. EricHallahan#1051: https://eleuther.ai/faq Serge#0241: So it's not possible to run locally? Wanted to hack together some wrapper scripts for it Sid#2121: If you're just running inference, use the version on huggingface transformers. It's very well documented. Serge#0241: Will check it out, thanks Teemochu#8740: Huggingface is a local run, it's a library that aids in downloading and using the model. EricHallahan#1051: Transformers is a library, Hugging Face is a company. EricHallahan#1051: I hate how I always need to specify Hugging Face Transformers lol EricHallahan#1051: But the there is a price to simplicity. Serge#0241: **Prompt: ** *AI Safety researches finally discovered a practical solution to the AI safety problem. Here's the gist of it:* **Output:** *1. AI Safety doesn't exist. This is the fundamental issue with AI safety. It won't ever exist.* Lovely. gwern#1782: uh oh kindiana#1016: https://discord.com/channels/729741769192767510/730510538060071043/838228804618158080
kindiana#1016: seems a bit more optimistic :berk: Serge#0241: Also tried to ask it for financial advice on how to make ten million dollars in a month, and it suggested *A: Here's one such plan: you buy a house with five bedrooms with $500,000 down payment and one loaner car, put it on the market, and go to hell.* Serge#0241: Still quite a long way till GPT-3 I see 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: LOL James#6892: LOL James#6892: didn’t expect that ending. Teemochu#8740: That's one good-valued soul you have there Serge#0241: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838240395783438356/image0.png Serge#0241: The trick of showering it with compliments isn't working. It just gets more salty. Serge#0241: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838243827918700574/unknown.png Serge#0241: Ok, I'm done here Serge#0241: Tried different prompts, quite fun, but still a long way till it's gonna be useful I guess Serge#0241: Or maybe I need to become more skillful at prompt engineering Serge#0241: Not expecting it to solve millennium prize problems right off the bat of course, but doesn't feel like it's even trying cfoster0#4356: Just an FYI: we try to keep model generated text in the #the-faraday-cage-archive channel, generally speaking Serge#0241: Ah I see. Already has bots connected, nice aze#1010: what is that aze#1010: lol 𓅬 gabriel_syme 𓅬#3220: any idea what would be the best approach for text generation using multi-modal inputs (text prompt, images, and metadata)? Is there something like that with a GPT model? Would that help with quality of results? I'm mostly thinking of away to produce semi-structured reports
Deleted User#0000: maybe try an encoder decoder architecture like T5/BART? Deleted User#0000: Hi @Daj , I saw you speaking with Gary Marcus, Walid Saba. I see you ask critical questions on alignment. I would like to share my perspective. Currently I am looking into a decentralized, free as in beer and liberty, non-monetary blockchain architecture for people to enhance their own 'internal system' if they so choose to do so. (I got access to gpt3 on same day as my favorite team launched it's project which I won't care to mention here as per the no shilling rule.) Deleted User#0000: If anyone wants to discuss consciousness, de-education, decentralized systems and the mind, I am muted in voice general. Just say hi. I am not an AI scientist, I have little actual experience in programming it. I have a ericksonian hypnosis among other coaching, system engineering tech background and I love the movie Arrival from 2016. Daj#7482: Hello there! I usually avoid discussions about consciousness and the like without firm technical grounding as they usually are unproductive, and I don't really know much/care much about blockchain systems tbh Daj#7482: So not sure how much good commentary I can give you lol Kia#2550: Morning Connor Luke_66#1485: Hi, I am interested in getting involved in research. I am an undergraduate student with one year of deep learning experience in computer vision. More about me : http://raghavprabhakar66.github.io/ I m looking to contribute to #vision project. UnsupervisedLearner#4148: How badly does end to end self attention perform without feedforward layers? I might play with it later in a colab just wondering if someone else tried it CRG#8707: There was the all-attention transformer: <https://ai.facebook.com/blog/making-transformer-networks-simpler-and-more-efficient/> CRG#8707: Also: https://discord.com/channels/729741769192767510/730095596861521970/821394631539163157 UnsupervisedLearner#4148: >On language modeling benchmark tasks, our all-attention network matched the state-of-the-art performances by Transformer networks, with a much simpler architecture. We hope this simplified architecture will open a path for better understanding and improving Transformer networks. >2019 What happened? CRG#8707: Attention is All You Need tried it and found it was slower. nev#4905: all-PKM network? :thonk:
CRG#8707: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838410780768468992/2e35b1485fadca524ab7dacdfa332615.png UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Hmmm. This is cool. I always conceptualized attention as a projected neural network. So FF makes it faster, I'm guessing this means per pass not faster to converge, but with comparable performance. Why not just stack a bunch of ff layers then... And if this doesn't work the same, why not? CRG#8707: If you only have FF layers, the best you can do is directly predict the raw token frequency. nev#4905: I think there was some paper where reordering layers so that there's only attention layers first and then just feedforwards worked just as well as normal transformers nev#4905: sandwich transformer iirc UnsupervisedLearner#4148: So without me getting out my scrap notebook. What I read likened the FF layer as attention sig(Wx)W ~= sm(qK)V So why would omitting softmax just give you a token probability distribution? Sid#2121: https://arxiv.org/abs/2009.04534 CRG#8707: What I meant is that you need the attention layers to focus on the context. Using only FF gives you huge Perplexity. UnsupervisedLearner#4148: Oh yeah, because the FF is tokenwise UnsupervisedLearner#4148: This line of inquiry is giving me a big thunk UnsupervisedLearner#4148: I really need to go into hyperbolic time chamber with a million gpus and all the weird architecture research from 1980-2010 and play around ThreeBagsFull#0426: Does Elethureai plan to release a dataset comparable to GPT-3 Davinci? EricHallahan#1051: Pile? EricHallahan#1051: https://pile.eleuther.ai
finetune#0907: davinci is a model, not a dataset cognomen#6297: openai's dataset is anything they could get their hands on cognomen#6297: the pile is slightly curated for quality ThreeBagsFull#0426: Apologies I meant model EricHallahan#1051: :yes: EricHallahan#1051: yes ThreeBagsFull#0426: Lol, anywhere I can read on this progress? The 2.7b release is amazing and seriously outperforms gpt2 in my testing. Would love to know if we're getting close to one similar to davinci EricHallahan#1051: I guess the website? It isn't particularly detailed though. EricHallahan#1051: https://eleuther.ai/projects/gpt-neo https://eleuther.ai/projects/gpt-neox EricHallahan#1051: Dark mode coming soon™️ EricHallahan#1051: We do not expect a model at the scale of 175B for many months. EricHallahan#1051: "Roadmap" is in the FAQ: https://eleuther.ai/faq EricHallahan#1051: Which GPT-2 were you using? XL? bmk#1476: sounds backwards bmk#1476: it's in the name - the pile is just a big pile of stuff we could find lol bmk#1476: many = more than whatever number popped into your head when you first read this message
EricHallahan#1051: It is still higher quality. alstroemeria313#1694: "exponentially increasing learning rate schedule" wat alstroemeria313#1694: oh, does this only work because of batch norm? alstroemeria313#1694: > We introduced overparameterization by simply placing two matrices in succession instead of the matrix in each dense layer. With an addition of roughly 15% in number of parameters, optimization accelerated by orders of magnitude lol... CRG#8707: Looks similar to deep linear networks training different than shallow linear networks: <https://www.saxelab.org/assets/papers/Saxe2013a.pdf#page=2> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838451033058705458/b7ff86be50af66bd0db6e978c6022915.png EricHallahan#1051: CRG, always sharp. Deleted User#0000: https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.02281 Arora investigated this too Deleted User#0000: https://arxiv.org/abs/2010.00679 CRG#8707: It was on a citation from: https://discord.com/channels/729741769192767510/747850033994662000/821217138094112777 Deleted User#0000: Thanks for the honest and clear answer Connor! What discussions have you found to be the most productive? How can humans ask more productive question? And last: do you know someone who cares more to discuss consciousness without being part in a centralized spiritual organization such as a church, group or religion? Here is something I found interesting to me: https://beta.openai.com/playground/p/t95SrdImvBVIfk8ZYgksdJAQ?model=davinci-instruct-beta Cheers! Daj#7482: I think there are productive ways to talk about consciousness and related questions, but they need to be grounded in technical understandings of computation, physicalism etc. It might be too math heavy for your taste, but one of my favorite things ever written on these kinds of topics is https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/philos.pdf
Daj#7482: If you're seriously interested in the question "how can humans ask more productive questions?" (which I think is a _phenomenal_ question), I would recommend my Nr1 favorite thing ever written, The Sequences (https://www.readthesequences.com/) which is a huge collection of short blog posts on rationality, logic, science, philosophy and more Daj#7482: There is also this humorous piece about what discussing with "philosophers" can sometimes be unproductive lol https://philosophynow.org/issues/46/Newtons_Flaming_Laser_Sword inox#5400: tbh neuroscientists always end up talking about consciousness if you buy them a drink Louis#0144: Really I read this and thought two years mgostIH#0245: To those having AGI timelines in < 50 years: What is the best evidence / piece of information that convinced you? Kharr#7888: Seeing artificial neurons in _specific_ architectures self organize like what I've seen in the brain. This doesn't happen in every architecture and is particularly interesting to me. mgostIH#0245: Like neurons in CLIP? Kharr#7888: A little bit, yes, but there's more cases as well. The crossover research is still in its infancy. mgostIH#0245: When do you think we'll reach superintelligent AI? Daj#7482: Neural Scaling Laws Kharr#7888: I think the new wave of multimodal Transformers will be particularly interesting as it keeps advancing. Also if we're aiming to reach human-like intelligence super intelligent AI is very far off. Experts might be great at one thing but not many people are great at everything. Daj#7482: also, Moore's Law mgostIH#0245: From GPT-3? Daj#7482: slash Joy's Law Daj#7482: And the followup Kaplan papers Daj#7482: Also a fun post: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rzqACeBGycZtqCfaX/fun-with-12-ooms-of-compute mgostIH#0245: What did you think about this before GPT-2?
Daj#7482: My timelines were probably 2-5x longer Daj#7482: maybe 2-3x mgostIH#0245: And what are they now? mgostIH#0245: > Also if we're aiming to reach human-like intelligence super intelligent AI is very far off You mean like 50 years? mgostIH#0245: Or more? Daj#7482: 50% probability mass in the 3-15 years timeframe Daj#7482: Have you read Ajeya's Anchors report? mgostIH#0245: I don't think so 🤔 Daj#7482: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/15ArhEPZSTYU8f012bs6ehPS6-xmhtBPP This is _the_ document to read for timeline forecasts Daj#7482: There's even google sheets to calculate probabilities Daj#7482: My predictions are pretty close to the "aggressive" forecast Kharr#7888: That depends which path humanity takes. If something becomes _too good too fast_ it will get regulated and suppressed. If it doesn't advance fast enough, we will see more AI winters. My bets are that it will happen behind closed doors decades before it hits the public eye. mgostIH#0245: I personally have my distribution like 20% in 20 years 55% in the interval from 20 to 40 years mgostIH#0245: Aye but I'd say that progress will always keep ongoing mgostIH#0245: And AIs that can automate more and more will be very profitable Daj#7482: Or it happens instantly and we all atomize into paperclips 🙃
Kharr#7888: I remember seeing the first wireless tablets with touch screens with tech allowing you to flick photos across to nearby people (in research labs). This was in the 1990s. Tech did not become mainstream until decades later. Kharr#7888: The current race to stuff ML into everything is quite different than previous technology trends. Adoption is much higher than I would have guessed, and the primary bottleneck is knowledge that this point. When last-year's SOTA is irrelevant today, it's a bit of an issue to find people who can understand and keep up/productize it. Daj#7482: It's almost like there is some kind of acceleration going on Daj#7482: Exponential acceleration, even Daj#7482: One might even say it is headed towards some kind of "singularity" inox#5400: didn't robin hanson write a book about how human-like AI collapses into superintelligent AI very quickly? inox#5400: Age of Em? Daj#7482: Yes, great book lol Daj#7482: Book length treatise on an intricate complex world mgostIH#0245: @Daj I asked because I often talk with people about this but they don't really believe (rightfully so) to the claim of possibly becoming immortal in 40 years Daj#7482: in like two paragraph he mentions "btw this would probably only exist for like a year or two max before they figure out AGI and go foom" Daj#7482: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Daj#7482: I'd recommend Ajeya's report mgostIH#0245: Tooo looongggg mgostIH#0245: Is there something shorter that I can tell them before that? inox#5400: I admire his dedication to so much detail to such a depressing scenario Daj#7482: "Hey what convinced you of X?" "Here's the convincing facts about X." "TLDR" mgostIH#0245: Like assuming I was in a conversation
mgostIH#0245: No silly I like reading them Daj#7482: That perfectly summarizes most of Hanson's intellectual output lol mgostIH#0245: But I can't throw papers of stuff to people asking me about it as the first thing :S mgostIH#0245: I need to get them into it with convincing arguments that ideally don't require **too much** reference Daj#7482: I mean, this is a question of inferential distance. You can point them to exponential curves in computing costs and if that doesn't work it's probably too far of a distance to span in one conversation Daj#7482: Or show them the Schmidhuber video lmao mgostIH#0245: Ayeee, say exponential curves in computing costs mgostIH#0245: One fact that striked me was the thing you wrote here too about training CV models mgostIH#0245: which one? Daj#7482: Bonus points: Remind them how "no one got exponential curves are right with COVID, so don't underestimate them" to strengthen your case Daj#7482: The one about his "Omega Point" lol Daj#7482: Don't actually shot it except for the meme mgostIH#0245: Like I'd like some hard hitting numbers, say "It used to cost 1000 bucks 10 years ago, now 1" Daj#7482: Yea, like a single GPU nowadays has as much FLOP as the biggest supercomputer in the world 20 years ago Kharr#7888: a single RTX 3090 goes :brr: on the same level as a cluster 10 years ago mgostIH#0245: I often use the "Suppose a slower moore's law, every 2 years computation doubles" mgostIH#0245: Because 20 years will still be a x1000 increase in compute power, and it's already a somewhat pessimistic estimate mgostIH#0245: For now I am giving people examples through the bots in #the-faraday-cage-archive Daj#7482: Oh yeah people react pretty well to modern bot outputs Daj#7482: I find #art pretty convincing lol
Daj#7482: but people habituate to that _fast_ mgostIH#0245: As in how just a decade ago computers didn't understand shit of images but now they can already generate them from sentences mgostIH#0245: Some people are already very dubious of "Automation of all art" mgostIH#0245: > i feel like art is best when it has human emotion behind it > idk if a bot can replicate that > maybe for art where you're not expecting human emotion Daj#7482: https://miro.medium.com/max/625/1*p7R4nQtn8pghKZk-a6oEBg.jpeg mgostIH#0245: Ayyyy, nice one! mgostIH#0245: This is the things I am talking about owo mgostIH#0245: Could aswell be pinned Daj#7482: Pinned a message. Daj#7482: It is fitting yea lol Daj#7482: I wrote a moderately bad essay about this a few years bac https://medium.com/@NPCollapse/counting-consciousness-part-3-e53a1a97d48b adamShimi#8350: From trying to write a review of Daniel's post (Fun with +12 OOMs of compute) which relies heavily on Aleya's report, I do feel like the latter should be distilled further to be more accessible without investing a month of study. inox#5400: it'd be fun to do a sociology study where you get researchers from different fields to classify real/generated excerpts from papers Daj#7482: I like Ajeya's report for just how dense and complete it is. I'm a fan of having "reference work". But yeah maybe there is benefit to having distilled summaries (which, tbf, the report does have iirc) mgostIH#0245: I am all for making these observations more accessible! adamShimi#8350: I don't want to replace the report, just to have a middle step between reading the words "Aleja's report" and reading the billions pages of the actual report. futurememe#2076: Have a question. I am using GPT-3 for my current project. Using it to make educational chatbots. Want to switch to GPT-NEO i think! Is there there anywhere I can test it out without having to stand it up? IE give it prompts and get some responses back? EricHallahan#1051: You can try this Colab notebook.
futurememe#2076: thanks!!! BoneAmputee#8363: `educational chatbots` doin the lord's work 🙏 futurememe#2076: haha. It's needed. We gotta use AI to fix education! futurememe#2076: 🙂 BoneAmputee#8363: yeah if you need any help, I'm probably not the person to ask but I would love to try to help that kind of project :skype_xd: I've finetuned conversational gpt bots before but making an effective teacher is going to be very difficult EricHallahan#1051: Can you not use DialoGPT? futurememe#2076: Thanks @BoneAmputee ! We are getting to that point. And OH wow @EricHallahan i didn't know that existed. Let me check it out EricHallahan#1051: It seems like a better model for what you are doing, but obviously it isn't as knowledgeable as either of the GPT-Neo models. futurememe#2076: So we have non profit and want to let kids talk to chatbots of albert einstein:) futurememe#2076: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838508943461580820/Image_51.png futurememe#2076: we gonna generate AI responses but then let people collectively up vote, down vote answers futurememe#2076: and edit futurememe#2076: the answers to reach a consensus futurememe#2076: using Rasa futurememe#2076: we non profit for education:) bmk#1476: as a general policy, we don't really help with downstream applications of our models bmk#1476: especially since it's basically mostly just using huggingface futurememe#2076: We using GPT-3 neo now:) BoneAmputee#8363: took about 6 volleys for that web demo to forget its convictions ;~;
futurememe#2076: no worries! EricHallahan#1051: Well it is pretrained but not fine-tuned. BoneAmputee#8363: yeah but like, it needs more attention BoneAmputee#8363: even with finetuned chat bots I've made, 10 lines of short term memory is like, a lot for it to handle BoneAmputee#8363: though I haven't made one in a while futurememe#2076: when we have a demo we want to show you guys:) @bmk Just wanted to say hi and tell you we exist. We ideally just want to get more eyes on the work you guys are doing bmk#1476: we don't really need more attention right now, unless you mean from engineers who can help us get stuff done bmk#1476: the conversion rate of people who stick around and contribute from just general attention is miniscule futurememe#2076: yes....that is the kind of attention. Exactly. I am trying to activate the educational community to using AI in teaching. Get those dads that are coders to help. So yes....engineers Daj#7482: Well best of luck with your project! futurememe#2076: this is the the other project i help fund. https://github.com/XRFoundation/XREngine futurememe#2076: we want to talk to 3D avatars:) futurememe#2076: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838510750506418196/unknown.png futurememe#2076: For XR multiplayer in browser:) futurememe#2076: So talk to 3D Einstein futurememe#2076: Thanks @Daj BoneAmputee#8363: what 3d engine is that? 👀 futurememe#2076: it's the teams that i am part of BoneAmputee#8363: nice! futurememe#2076: it's all web based three.js
futurememe#2076: full VR, AR, in browser multiplayer support futurememe#2076: i am using it try to make educational metaverse futurememe#2076: but want to fill it with bots that can teach kids futurememe#2076: 🙂 Deleted User#0000: yeah i love that vision. I hope I can help it soon with my movement models Deleted User#0000: and in other ways futurememe#2076: Thanks man! futurememe#2076: i think once all this tech comes together the world is going to become so cool:) Education definitely going to change gwern#1782: does anyone have a good source on this 27b PLUG Alibaba BERT-like model? the PALM link is obviously not 27b, and https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/PW0wZbts6ZpbKZSHyp8aVw is pretty sketchy when I try to read it in google translate... https://www.infoq.cn/article/EFIHo75sQsVqLvFTruKE seems a lot better but I still don't see any paper writeups gwern#1782: > Now, Alibaba officially released PLUG, once again promoting the development of the Chinese community pre-training model. Next, PLUG will expand the parameter scale to 200 billion and further improve the quality of text generation. In addition to the PLUG (27 billion parameters) with Chinese as the core, Dharma Institute has also jointly released a new super-large-scale pre-training model "Wenhui" (11.3 billion parameters) for cognition in conjunction with Zhiyuan Research Institute and Tsinghua University. Tsinghua University released the ultra-large-scale multi-modal pre-training model "M6" (100 billion parameters). Kia#2550: Wow like a Opensource project (or something like that I guess) Kia#2550: Nonetheless Interesting Development :thonk: gwern#1782: *is* it open source? I don't trust translations like this gwern#1782: none of the other chinese models have yet been released for download that I am aware of bmk#1476: lol the article claims it's the biggest chinese purely text model :thonk: gwern#1782: it was then, I think gwern#1782: didn't pangu-alpha come out after? andyljones#7746: yeah, by a ~week Kia#2550: It's probably a flex or they're just bragging to the West about this thing gwern#1782: or they just mean 'announced' by 'released', which is what it means 80% of the time in the west too
Kia#2550: That would be interesting bmk#1476: yeah, 发布 can mean just announce gwern#1782: as I said, I don't trust machine translation for nuances of research like that andyljones#7746: the way 99% of the material is in chinese should tell you something about the flex priorities of these research groups Kia#2550: So True bmk#1476: i bet google translate meant it in the sense of "released news about" bmk#1476: and doesnt realize that with LMs specifically releasing news about the model and releasing the model are different things Teemochu#8740: are you saying the cost of attention is quadratic? Louis#0144: Sigh stephen#2400: Hi - I've a quick question on the small gpt-neo model on huggingface, sorry if its off topic or been covered already I loaded the gpt-neo-125M model into Jay Alammar's Ecco library which visualizes transformer model internals. One of the visualisations is based on nostalgebraist's observation in https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/AcKRB8wDpdaN6v6ru/interpreting-gpt-the-logit-lens that the final transform to vocabulary space can be applied at all layers, and how the model has often identified the next token within the first few layers. This doesn't seem to happen with the gpt-neo models of comparable size, the output tokens are only ranked highly in the final layer. I've an example of this in https://gist.github.com/stprior/de2b2bd4a98fafd5e26c4cbb99a2f2f4 stephen#2400: Is there any reason the gpt-neo model would work differently? I'm not sure if Ecco should be doing something different to get rankings of tokens in the gpt-neo model, it seemed to just work without modifying how it finds the internal weights or embedding matrix. EricHallahan#1051: First off, welcome back! I think we are very interested in stuff like this, so it is definitely not #off-topic. cfoster0#4356: Does anyone recall if the models we trained have the output embedding matrix tied with the input one? EricHallahan#1051: I don't know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ EricHallahan#1051: Maybe Sid knows? stephen#2400: Thanks - I've been lurking all along stephen#2400: I wondered about that - it looked to me like there was only one embedding matrix but I could definitely be mistaken EricHallahan#1051: My initial reaction is that it is because 125M was was trained so quickly, but have you tried other GPT-Neo models? stephen#2400: I haven't - I think I ran out of space when I tried to - but that might have been when I was running on gpu
StellaAthena#3530: @stephen Use colab stephen#2400: I'll try again and see bmk#1476: a heads up that 125M was trained much shorter than the larger models Louis#0144: That’s genius Louis#0144: Holy shit Louis#0144: I’ve never heard of anyone doing this Louis#0144: Citation? bmk#1476: gpt2 does it lmao CRG#8707: https://discord.com/channels/729741769192767510/730090096287547444/795698185569304596 Louis#0144: We should do it for the grounding project CRG#8707: Untied worked better for T5 Louis#0144: It’s an experiment worth trying tho Louis#0144: So we have #interpretability-reading-group if that interests you. I think I can assume that projects might come of that eventually Louis#0144: Kinda semi related CRG#8707: Relevant table from: <https://arxiv.org/pdf/2102.11972.pdf#page=8> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838553683766542336/a2789f144efd0be8be478ab1b40fc10d.png CRG#8707: Hm, for the T5 decoder tying the embeddings was better. But IIRC lucidrains mentioned that for AR untied embeddings were superior. :thonk: stephen#2400: FWIW the same pattern is the same for gpt-neo-1.3B. https://gist.github.com/stprior/ddf414ef62863d79109be7ec5609dfb8 It looks like the input and output embedding matrices are the same, and I think the output embedding is being applied correctly because the rank of output tokens decreases through the layers, and they are ranked close to 1 in the output layer. cfoster0#4356: Interesting alexyz#3459: I remember seeing someone recreate GPT-2 1.5B back when it wasn't released yet
alexyz#3459: It was inferior to the actual 1.5B GPT-2, according to the creator alexyz#3459: but it was amazing that someone was able to do it alexyz#3459: there's also someone who trained a 1.25B GPT-2 on a Russian corpus alexyz#3459: https://github.com/l4rz/gpt-2-training alexyz#3459: i really like seing these precursors to GPT-Neo lol alexyz#3459: I for the life of me can't find the 1.5B GPT-2 that someone personally made alexyz#3459: can someone link it if they have a link? bmk#1476: well that depends on which one you're talking about cfoster0#4356: connor? alexyz#3459: dunno cfoster0#4356: <https://towardsdatascience.com/gpt2-counting-consciousness-and-the-curious-hacker-323c6639a3a8> alexyz#3459: all I remember is: 1. i found it on Github 2. it was trained on multiple GPUs for like approx month 3. when I found it, it was crossed out using markdown saying it was inferior to the actual GPT-2 1.5B, but it was still there linked if someone wanted to use it kurumuz#5695: yeah sounds pretty impressive alexyz#3459: I think that might be it alexyz#3459: because I also think it said that it wouldn't be released alexyz#3459: but then they did after the actual one was released bmk#1476: hmm that name "connor" sounds familiar
bmk#1476: feel like I've seen it somewhere alexyz#3459: but is there an actual release of that after GPT-2 1.5B was actually released? because I found it through github cfoster0#4356: Yeah <https://github.com/ConnorJL/GPT2> alexyz#3459: Thank you, that's the one alexyz#3459: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838569035758043146/unknown.png Louis#0144: Idk a dork like that Louis#0144: 🤷‍♂️ TheGantian#2451: What might be happening if transformers is giving me the following error when trying to create a EleutherAI/gpt-neo-1.3B pipeline?: > ValueError: Unrecognized configuration class <class 'transformers.models.gpt_neo.configuration_gpt_neo.GPTNeoConfig'> for this kind of AutoModel: TFAutoModelForCausalLM. > Model type should be one of BertConfig, OpenAIGPTConfig, GPT2Config, TransfoXLConfig, XLNetConfig, XLMConfig, CTRLConfig. TheGantian#2451: (This is running the sample code on the HuggingFace page. Works on one computer but the other is giving me this) StellaAthena#3530: @TheGantian update your version. TheGantian#2451: I did run pip install --upgrade --force-reinstall transformers, I'll try again EricHallahan#1051: Do you happen to only have TensorFlow installed? TheGantian#2451: What else should I have? I might have missed adding something to requirements.txt EricHallahan#1051: You do need PyTorch. CKtalon#7792: They only released it as in openai's playground. No weights CKtalon#7792: And it was biggest until Huawei beat it a few days later TheGantian#2451: Ah, that's probably it. I have pytorch on my dev machine but not the test machine EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, on launch day someone thought it was an early April fools prank.
EricHallahan#1051: It wasn't, and their problem was that they only had TensorFlow installed. TheGantian#2451: That was it. The GPT-2 models were downloading without torch but the Neo ones werent. Thanks for the assist! DoesThisUnitHaveASoul#7264: hey everyone DoesThisUnitHaveASoul#7264: Does anyone have any idea why most transformers for autoregressive text tasks use word-level embeddings instead of character level embeddings? Is it literally that you have a shorter context length? Which makes training more feasible? kindiana#1016: it also means you process more text for the same amount of tokens Spy#9778: This is an ad hoc guess, but I suspect that the BPE tokenization step also gives you some statistical advantages since how the merges were chosen depends on the corpus statistics. ELMo had a character LSTM for its embeddings, which you could easily replace a BPE embedding table with, but all the followup work uses subword pieces instead. kurumuz#5695: https://medium.com/georgian-impact-blog/gpt-neo-vs-gpt-3-are-commercialized-nlp-models-really-that-much-better-f4c73ffce10b kurumuz#5695: They say gpt-neo 2.7b is worse than 1.3b at SST-2 but they don't test the whole dataset and only ranadomly selected examples 🤔 kurumuz#5695: Still, interesting results Kia#2550: It's probably Crappy testing zphang#7252: feels like they should use some kind of standardized LM eval library, preferable in harness form Deleted User#0000: anyone know if it's possible to do data parallelism accross nodes in a slurm cluster? Deleted User#0000: say each node has just 4 GPUs, and I wanna use more Deleted User#0000: ahm it seems like it can be done https://www.hpcworkshops.com/08-ml-on-parallelcluster/03-distributed-data-parallel.html Sid#2121: sure, pretty sure deepspeed or torch distributed will work across a slurm cluster Sid#2121: https://github.com/facebookincubator/submitit Deleted User#0000: yeah. I found that that pytorch lightning supports it easily. However, im not sure its working right. batch_size * gpus * num_nodes = 4096, but the number of iters/per epoch I observe, seems to correspond to an effective batch size of batch_size * gpus Deleted User#0000: so I guess it's not properly distributing accross the nodes? kindiana#1016: you need to shard the dataloader as well I believe, not sure if ptl handles it automatically Deleted User#0000: i think they say it does hmm
Sid#2121: do you need to use slurm / lightning? deepspeed handles it pretty well Deleted User#0000: my codebase is already using lightning, and slurm is installed on the cluster so Sid#2121: if you're just doing dp it's really easy to change the code to deepspeed Sid#2121: you literally just pass in your model and dataset to deepspeed.initialize Sid#2121: and it distributes jobs using pdsh Deleted User#0000: actually ligthning has beta support for deepspeed Sid#2121: never really used lightning before, what... is it? like what does it do? Deleted User#0000: its just a high level library for pytorch that is supposed to implement all the modern DL optimizations Deleted User#0000: its pretty cool, but it comes with the drawbacks of high level libraries Deleted User#0000: (mainly that if it doestn work is harder to know why) kindiana#1016: its basically a big training loop impl lol Sid#2121: coming from TF, pytorch is already high level enough that I don't really understand the need lol Deleted User#0000: yeah basically Sid#2121: so... it just calls .cuda and .backward for you? :berk: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838769192186150912/68747470733a2f2f706c2d626f6c74732d646f632d696d616765732e73332e75732d656173742d322e616d617a6f6e617773.png kindiana#1016: pretty much lol Deleted User#0000: like to use multi-gpu or TPU, or any of this stuff, I literally had to add a flag and not touch anything else in my code Deleted User#0000: or mixed precision, or gradient clipping, syncbatchnorm, etc Louis#0144: Lightning is like huggingface for people who are scared of pytorch basically Louis#0144: Or want TPU support Deleted User#0000: or are lazy
Louis#0144: True CKtalon#7792: is the GPT2 tokenizer trained on the same corpus as GPT2 (i know..stupid question), so roughly 40GB text data? EricHallahan#1051: IIRC, yes. cognomen#6297: I suspect it's older than that bmk#1476: idk, probably, but youd have to check the paper to be sure CKtalon#7792: and gpt-neo is also using GPT2 tokenizer? bmk#1476: i think GPT and GPT2 had different tokenizers but im too lazy to check CKtalon#7792: or was something trained on ThePile bmk#1476: same tokenizer as gpt2 CKtalon#7792: guess i'll have to dig into the paper and see how gpt2's tokenizer was trained EricHallahan#1051: I think in the future we will need to train our own tokenizer. CKtalon#7792: can't imagine training it on 800GB of text though CKtalon#7792: haha CKtalon#7792: the amount of ram needed is crazy CKtalon#7792: any reason why they used 50+k token vocabs CKtalon#7792: their paper doesn't really say much. just says this is what we did CKtalon#7792: and like BPE good EricHallahan#1051: What is the limit to the size of the vocabulary in tokenizers? CKtalon#7792: i don't think there's a limit CKtalon#7792: the number of char of your corpus lol
bmk#1476: if we ever train a new tokenizer, we should save it for after we have multilingual data Kharr#7888: And manually check it for garbage... Kharr#7888: No way anyone looked at the GPT2 Tokenizer and thought "this vocab makes sense" CKtalon#7792: i can imagine the vocab of this multilingual tokenizer would be over 100k in size CKtalon#7792: considering japanese, korean, chinese, russian, and all the other weird ass characters neko#5937: Why didn't openai release salle even in api form neko#5937: DALL-E bmk#1476: well, we wouldn't know any better than anyone else outside OA lol neko#5937: It seems ironic that Microsoft ai is different than openai and had to do it's own video version of openai neko#5937: Oh I get it neko#5937: Nvm mkualquiera#3484: I think OpenAI is still not quite sure how it wants to handle things mkualquiera#3484: I mean they aren't really a compute provider, they are a research company mkualquiera#3484: but they also don't want to miss out on the dollars mkualquiera#3484: so they are probably conflicted CKtalon#7792: do take note for like Chinese, due to the lack of spaces ,the BPE process takes like forever for a relatively large corpus (a few GB) (even for a purely chinese corpus) CKtalon#7792: not sure how a multilingual one would fare bmk#1476: good thing we have a lot of cpus bmk#1476: :chad: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838823659517771836/unknown.png Kharr#7888: The simplest solution for multilingual models is probably to have separate embedding layers per language and something that selects which one to use based on the input (kind of like the multimodal work). Having all languages within a single vocab is pointless since there is little overlap.
CKtalon#7792: i think ram will be an issue CKtalon#7792: 755GB is likely not enough 😛 bmk#1476: good thing we have multiple machines with this much cpu and memory CKtalon#7792: lol, can it be distributed though bmk#1476: idk probably CKtalon#7792: sigh, my chinese tokenizer sucks CKtalon#7792: i had to do jieba and then sentencepiece CKtalon#7792: ran out of ram on a 256GB machine bmk#1476: i mean jieba can def be distributed for example bmk#1476: not 100% sure about sentencepiece but i'd bet you can merge partial sentencepiece vocabs with just a small amount of state CKtalon#7792: i did jieba to split out the terms. from that sentencepiece became relatively fast/trivial CKtalon#7792: it has to do with the BPE process, and not having spaces really fucks up that process CKtalon#7792: like i think it was not finishable in any time scale CKtalon#7792: based on the corpus i had CKtalon#7792: ~80GB Sphinx#2092: You could probably just subsample. Sphinx#2092: Unclear you really need 80 gb for a given language. CKtalon#7792: that's what people say 😛 but i think a bigger corpus and the proper tokenizing of terms helps þeremin#6617: Good morning - I'm a software engineer interested in AI alignment. I've worked with Tenserflow a bit, and I understand common machine learning techniques academically, but I've never built a large-scale machine learning application. One of the pinned posts mentions that you're bottlenecked on manpower; where should I look to contribute? Are there any needed tasks that I could do without deep knowledge of ML? Documentation, maintenance, first-drafting ideas? EricHallahan#1051: First off, welcome!
EricHallahan#1051: @bmk, do you have anything eval harness related? bmk#1476: woah, awesome, more alignment people! bmk#1476: @theremin so there's some stuff for eval harness that needs to get done that's been low priority stuff that we point noobs to for first contributions and that's what eric is referring to - though since you're interested in alignment, we could possibly find something there for you to do bmk#1476: @þeremin EricHallahan#1051: Yeah, alignment sounds more valuable than eval-harness lol þeremin#6617: I'm perfectly happy to start with something basic to get my feet wet. bmk#1476: how much do you know about alignment? þeremin#6617: I think it is an important topic that I want to learn more about and help research, not one where I have any particular insight. þeremin#6617: That said, I have read the Sequences on it from LW, and a bunch of stuff from MIRI. þeremin#6617: I have a few pet ideas that are almost certainly wrong, but that I want to explore to figure out how. bmk#1476: ok that's pretty good, yeah bmk#1476: what directions are you most interested in? þeremin#6617: Well, the idea that I'm most interested in is 'transferring' a preference ordering directly out of a human brain. Specifically, ML approximates a black-box function. It seems like it should be possible in theory to create a model that predicts what a human's 'moral intuition' or judgement about a situation would be. þeremin#6617: I'm sure there's a nice concise term for that that I don't know. þeremin#6617: In practice, doing that has obvious practical problems, as well as "what if one modern-day human is not the best judge for what the far future should look like". bmk#1476: this sounds like value learning / inverse reinforcement learning þeremin#6617: So the idea that I've been playing around with is trying to create an agent that has a goal to solve - some simulated game - and can also send questions about plans to a human. þeremin#6617: That certainly sounds like the right words for it; I'll add that to my notes to research specifically. Sid#2121: if you really want grunt work, some of the gpt-neox documentation needs updating. But I would prioritize any alignment work we have EricHallahan#1051: I can do documentation lol
þeremin#6617: Okay, I'll put that at the bottom of the list and see if there are any other suggestions. bmk#1476: i'm not sure this solves that problem entirely - see CEV for more details but even if you could perfectly predict a human brain's moral judgement, "what we want", "what we say we want", and "what we would want if we were smarter, knew more, etc" are all separate things þeremin#6617: Right - that's a good point. Sid#2121: I just made a tool which autogenerates some :ultrazucc: Sid#2121: but it will need a bit of integrating still EricHallahan#1051: I kinda am just relaxing for the rest of the day after my final, so if you want to point me in a certain direction on what to update, I can do some of that. Sid#2121: also are there any regex nerds here, my regex is not as robust as it could be bmk#1476: i recommend reading about CEV https://intelligence.org/files/CEV.pdf Sid#2121: ok, gimme a few mins bmk#1476: > In poetic terms, our coherent extrapolated volition is our wish if we knew more, thought > faster, were more the people we wished we were, had grown up farther together; where > the extrapolation converges rather than diverges, where our wishes cohere rather than > interfere; extrapolated as we wish that extrapolated, interpreted as we wish that interpreted. bmk#1476: basically CEV is the ideal gold standard that we'd want to estimate bmk#1476: yud explains in excruciating detail what he means by this in the paper þeremin#6617: So I have some thoughts about that, and about how to respond to your point, but let me go read that PDF to see if they're already covered by CEV. Daj#7482: (worth mentioning CEV is from literally 2006 and considered super outdated) Daj#7482: (I'm not even sure Yud endorses it anymore) bmk#1476: what would you recommend to supercede it? bmk#1476: i find the idea of CEV at least in broad strokes super helpful
Daj#7482: CEV has good symbolic value, but if you're interested in progress on value learning you could start with https://www.alignmentforum.org/s/4dHMdK5TLN6xcqtyc, Stuart Armstrong's stuff (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CSEdLLEkap2pubjof/research-agenda-v0-9-synthesising-a-human-s-preferences-into) and maybe Abram Demski's normativity sequence (https://www.lesswrong.com/s/Gmc7vtnpyKZRHWdt5). For some interesting (critical) thoughts on human models from MIRI folk, see https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BKjJJH2cRpJcAnP7T/thoughts-on-human-models Daj#7482: Note this is generally pretty advanced stuff so don't feel like you need to read it all at once or anything lol bmk#1476: i brought up CEV mainly because it's a good collection of direct counterexamples to the idea that we just need a model that can predict what a human would want or would say they want and everything works fine Daj#7482: I do recommend reading CEV, I was just answering your question as to what I think supercede that document bmk#1476: ah k bmk#1476: that makes sense Louis#0144: Must be good then Daj#7482: :silencebird: Imperishable_NEET#1969: Say, what math concepts do I need to know to understand how these algorithms work? I know there's a lot of linear algebra involved. Daj#7482: You can get pretty far without deep math, but LinAlg is by far the most important yea Daj#7482: And calculus Daj#7482: All of NNs is basically taking the derivatives (calculus) of really big matrixes (LinAlg) Daj#7482: But in practice you just do `network.learn(data)` or whatever lol Imperishable_NEET#1969: I understood Calculus once in college, shouldn't be hard to get back up to speed. Daj#7482: I'd recommend just diving directly into code and then learning math later as needed ~~at least before Stella or one of the other mathematicians catches you~~ Daj#7482: There's tons of good intro to ML courses and tutorials zphang#7252: I think that as long as you've taken intro college calculus, intro linear algebra, and intro statistics at *some point*, you have enough to navigate a lot of modern work Daj#7482: Oh yeah, learning statistics is just generally a good idea Daj#7482: Naturally thinking in terms of probability distributions and the like is highly recommended zphang#7252: and you can use phrases like "update my prior"
Daj#7482: You need to read The Sequences to be allowed to say that Dromarion#3383: I'm taking some ML courses on Udemy though you have to do some diy on the curriculum. I'm mostly following this roadmap. https://whimsical.com/machine-learning-roadmap-2020-CA7f3ykvXpnJ9Az32vYXva inox#5400: 99% of deep learning all you need is matrix multiplication and the chain rule zphang#7252: arguably you don't even need to know the chain rule, you just need to know it exists inox#5400: for sure I don't know the difference between forward mode and reverse mode automatic differentiation without checking inox#5400: ok I checked: reverse mode is the chain rule and forward mode is the one I don't have time to learn cfoster0#4356: They both apply the chain rule guac#4716: whaaat you don;t know your vjps and your jvps cfoster0#4356: *frowns in Pearlmutter* inox#5400: dang you're right: I should've said one is schoolbook chain rule and the other isn't Louis#0144: New pfp Louis#0144: Also can someone give Hayley the regular tag pls? nz#9710: Isn't that also bilal's? EricHallahan#1051: Nope. EricHallahan#1051: Same as it has been. inox#5400: oh nice thanks! Louis#0144: I was wondering why it had been so long and yet u didn’t have it Louis#0144: 🤷‍♂️ inox#5400: it's actually an old pfp 😏 I was trying out being a furry for a couple months
tg#7159: Hello! First time poster here. I've been trying to reproduce basic image synthesis using the excellent dall-e library of @Deleted User . So far I'm not having much luck. I have a dataset of about 1 million selfies. Each image is 256x256 pixels. I've tried encoding both using a custom codebook and also the off-the-shelf OpenAI and VQGanVAE1024 codebooks. The decoded output seems to be pretty good qualitatively. However, when I train the auto-regressive transformer my loss converges very quickly and the flatlines. When I plot the argmax predictions for each token, the model seems to be essentially predicting the same token everywhere (e.g. as if it was unable to attend to anything). I'd be super happy to know if anyone has any debugging tips / suggestions? Are there some robust metrics to look at to see if the model is actually progressing? I've tried using a really slow warm up and it doesn't seem to make much difference... once the learning rate picks up the model converges quickly to this degenerate output. My transformer has about 8m parameters, and I can do a batch size of about 8 images (each being a sequence of 256 tokens). Deleted User#0000: @tg hey! So there's actually a discord for the dalle-pytorch repo tg#7159: Oh, and FWIW I was able to get the transformer to work well on a different (and much simpler) dataset. Have others found this sensitivity to the dataset? tg#7159: Oh great, let me post there @Deleted User Deleted User#0000: one of the contributors also noticed adamw doesn't converge Deleted User#0000: we just switched it back to Adam this morning Deleted User#0000: So you may want to retry tg#7159: @Deleted User Is the discord invite-only? tg#7159: (do you mean the one linked off the github repo?) Deleted User#0000: Yup, the one on the repo Deleted User#0000: I'm not sure, someone else actually heads the discord community tg#7159: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838895815584907294/unknown.png cfoster0#4356: Try this https://discord.gg/YqEXUdjN Deleted User#0000: @cfoster0 updated the discord link on the readme, ty ty cfoster0#4356: O the link I posted will expire at some point just fyi Deleted User#0000: i'll ask them to give me an unexpirable link Louis#0144: Let’s say I wanted to do CLIP with two text heads that are massively different modes Louis#0144: How hard would that be
Louis#0144: And would it be stupid cfoster0#4356: Modes? Louis#0144: Like one head is stories and the other one is associated story reviews Louis#0144: Using the reviews to guide the story generation by disentangling cfoster0#4356: Oh so just like text-text matching instead of text-image marching? Louis#0144: Yeah cfoster0#4356: That might work, my only worry is the task could be too easy EricHallahan#1051: I think the methods presented in CLIP and DALL-E are pretty universal. Louis#0144: My hope is that if I do text to text matching with reviews I can initialize by giving a review that praises the lack of plot holes LMAO Louis#0144: i tried doing it as prompt engineering with GPT3 Louis#0144: Didnt work Louis#0144: This is just a toy idea in my head Louis#0144: It’s also text to text grounding Louis#0144: So I thought maybe I’ll throw it at the wall here Louis#0144: @cfoster0 u laugh but LMs that know how to avoid plot holes is the core of my research interests Louis#0144: Lmao cfoster0#4356: I laugh because I think it'd be funny if this works Louis#0144: LMAO Louis#0144: it could alexyz#3459: Does anyone know how many teraflops the TPUs on Colab have?
EricHallahan#1051: Colab TPUs are v2-8s EricHallahan#1051: Kaggle TPUs are v3-8s kindiana#1016: 180 iirc alexyz#3459: Ah ok alexyz#3459: what types of TPUs does TRC provide? Louis#0144: Kaggle has tpus?? Louis#0144: Wtf kindiana#1016: A bunch of v3 and v2-8s mostly lol alexyz#3459: ah ok alexyz#3459: because I got access to TRC 🥳 alexyz#3459: that's fun kindiana#1016: The email should say what you have access to alexyz#3459: Ye alexyz#3459: thanks 🙂 Rina#0391: guys Rina#0391: i started my own gpt naval on spacehey Rina#0391: she is for coding Rina#0391: naval for coding EricHallahan#1051: GPT-Neo is already very good at code. Rina#0391: no no
Rina#0391: i mean like Rina#0391: fortune cooking styled setnance Rina#0391: sentances* Rina#0391: on how to code better Rina#0391: like naval Rina#0391: a ai that teaches Rina#0391: gpt naval Rina#0391: but more personafied thats human like StellaAthena#3530: I don’t see why you’d want that (I also don’t know what naval is) but yeah you can fine tune on that if it makes you happy Rina#0391: o okay Rina#0391: stella Rina#0391: woah Rina#0391: i saw your talk Rina#0391: on ai Rina#0391: can we chat stella Rina#0391: im a huge fan of gpt3 Rina#0391: omg i just realizd shes on my friendlist Rina#0391: i forgottt Rina#0391: hows dall e neo going Kia#2550: Dall e neo?
Kia#2550: Never heard of that ExMachina#1693: Hi folks, I'm new here, thanks for open sourcing gpt-neo! I've been trying to fine tune the 1.3B model via the huggingface interface on a multi GPU single node setup on AWS (g4dn.12xlarge - 4 x TeslaT4 16GB RAM) question : has anyone here managed to use deepspeed to fine tune gpt-neo-1.3B or 2.7B on a multi GPU setup on AWS? https://github.com/dredwardhyde/gpt-neo-fine-tuning-example I was using this for reference, but only one GPU ends up being used when I train using deepspeed. Works for the smaller Netflix dataset (fits on single GPU), but OOMs for anything larger (i.e average length > 200 ) Sorry if this is a stupid question/wrong forum, any help appreciated Louis#0144: You don’t need that much to finetune 1.3b Louis#0144: There’s plenty of people who did it single GPU ExMachina#1693: I'm trying to basically have a setup where I can experiment between the 2.7B and 1.3B model in the same system to compare results for a new benchmark I'm developing. The distributed part of the setup seems to not be working for me ExMachina#1693: If anybody has gotten multi GPU deepspeed with gpt-neo to work reliably, do let me know Louis#0144: LOL Louis#0144: ;-; Louis#0144: The horror Louis#0144: you need to disabled fp16 firstly EricHallahan#1051: Well you can try it on integrated graphics, but you won't get far. Louis#0144: You can’t use fp16 Louis#0144: It NaNs over a certain context size Louis#0144: There’s a giant thread on transformers GitHub about this by yours truly ExMachina#1693: Would you have a link to this? thanks! Louis#0144: https://github.com/huggingface/transformers/issues/11076
janus#0150: Any word on this? Who should I ask? I'm extremely interested in the logit lens stuff kindiana#1016: from a quick look of the code it looks like weight tie is default and not disabled for the runs janus#0150: If you keep digging into this please share! I found the logit lens idea very counter intuitive, but if its true its would be an *incredible* interpretability tool. It would be good to try to explicitly construct the network to allow this kind of interpretability without a huge performance cost. cfoster0#4356: I think you could probably construct some kind of "early exiting" GPT variant if you really want to encourage that kind of structure kindiana#1016: Yeah there's been a lot of work along those lines I've seen janus#0150: Yeah, like the loss is based on the prediction of each intermediate layer as well? kindiana#1016: You can also have aux objectives janus#0150: Any keywords for me to search literature? janus#0150: By the way, are you guys committed to the same tokenization strategy OpenAI used? I think neo would be much better if you tokenized digits individually janus#0150: I guess thats kind of off-hand, but there is surely something to be learned from GPT-3's bpe problems janus#0150: even fairly conservative changes should help kindiana#1016: https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.04152 kindiana#1016: https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.12993 kindiana#1016: https://arxiv.org/abs/1807.03819 kindiana#1016: https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.03837 janus#0150: 💯 Thank you!! kindiana#1016: (sorry for spam lol, but some references to early exit/intermediate objectives in literature) kindiana#1016: it uses the same tokenizer as gpt2 for drop in compatibility 🤷 janus#0150: Interesting that these are all from a capabilities standpoint Rina#0391: Hi
Rina#0391: any jobs here? Rina#0391: My family thinks i sit here and play video games when I run code in my browser all day Rina#0391: they think i do nothing..... Rina#0391: now they want me to go to rehab janus#0150: Yeah, thats a fair point. But Neo could define a new standard! Just think, GPT-4 in gpt-neo format for drop in compatibility Rina#0391: Any internship Rina#0391: janus can i dm you Rina#0391: i have questio janus#0150: lmao janus#0150: sure Rina#0391: add me Rina#0391: friend list? Rina#0391: i need to Rina#0391: I only have 1 day Rina#0391: to get a job Rina#0391: before rehab starts Rina#0391: on my freaking birthday Rina#0391: i need a job soon Rina#0391: not bestbuy Rina#0391: I want to work here
Rina#0391: i have been hardcore prompt engineering Louis#0144: Uh guac#4716: hey i hope you get the best help but this probably isn't the best discord to vent mate :/ Louis#0144: What is going on here Louis#0144: @Rina everyone here is an unpaid volunteer cst#9766: some of us are grad students, which is arguably worse Louis#0144: I think a large portion of us are grad students Rina#0391: oh zphang#7252: I have some upcoming work on this as well, but more on BERT-style models and NLU tasks Rina#0391: sorry zphang#7252: for some reason it doesn't work on electra tho Kia#2550: Um,Wish you're fine and safe... Kia#2550: Uh Kia#2550: Have a great day to Louis#0144: I found NLI and electra gets spooky Louis#0144: If that’s at all relevant janus#0150: Whats the angle of the paper? zphang#7252: it was an interpretability paper on fine-tuned models, and then just veers off into a weird direction zphang#7252: actually I might as well preview the results here zphang#7252: So CKA is this method for comparing similarities of representations, so I applied it to every layer for task-tuned BERT-type models, on their CLS token
zphang#7252: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838939868721709127/unknown.png zphang#7252: surprisingly, we found that RoBERTa models have this weird block-diagonal structure to the representations this means that the early representations are fairly similar, then at some point there's a break and the later representations are very similar zphang#7252: you can see some links to the logit lens results here zphang#7252: It also implies that you could maybe just drop the later transformer layers and get the same performance, maybe? zphang#7252: Anyway, for ALBERT we see something similar (e.g. see RTE), but is slightly weirder cause all its layers are tied But for ELECTRA this just falls apart zphang#7252: So anyway, we tried the thing where we skip the later transformer layers, and see how well we do on tasks (1) with further fine-tuning of the head (2) without further fine-tuning zphang#7252: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/838940856417255459/unknown.png zphang#7252: (ignore ALBERT/HellaSwag, it looks borked) kindiana#1016: x is layer? zphang#7252: yup zphang#7252: basically yes, for RoBERTa and ALBERT, you can usually drop off a couple of top few transformer layers *without further tuning* and get comparable performance janus#0150: Wow, interesting zphang#7252: (with further tuning of the head you get somewhat better performance as well) zphang#7252: again, ELECTRA is weird because ??? janus#0150: @adamShimi ^ re: our conversation about what layers before the ouput are doing zphang#7252: but yeah, the results are empirical and messy so it's been hard to properly write up janus#0150: Yeah there is a lot going on janus#0150: Interesting that its so discontinuous on some tasks and an S curve on others
zphang#7252: lol, the next experiment in the paper I do some weird attention swapping thing and my advisor told me "...yeah you need to split this into 2 papers or something" janus#0150: What would this kind of experiment look like for gpt-neo? Chopping off intermediate layers and training a new logit layer for each? zphang#7252: lol I was gonna say, can't really do it on gpt-3 kindiana#1016: yeah its kinda difficult for ar models :thonk: kindiana#1016: you don't have any cls tokens zphang#7252: early exit would be great for AR models zphang#7252: because you can vary the exit point for every token kindiana#1016: but then you can't do batched inference lol kindiana#1016: don't think it will be worth it zphang#7252: tru zphang#7252: depends on your inference setup I guess kindiana#1016: it helps if you do bs=1 inference, but I don't think most people do that zphang#7252: might be useful for the "bs=1 inference" hobbyists janus#0150: Forgive my ignorance but I'm not familiar with the bert or electra architectures. What do they output? Class probabilities? Is there thus no way (or expectation) that we could interpret intermediate layers in natural language? zphang#7252: BERT-types do MLM (probabilities over tokens), ELECTRA does probability over real/fake token zphang#7252: so you could still do the same thing with using the MLM head on earlier layers, at least for BERT-types kindiana#1016: have people tried combining electra and mlm objectives? zphang#7252: I've not seen any others use the electra objective (ELECTRIC maybe?), probably cause it requires training the generator model as well so it's not as brainless as MLM go brrr kindiana#1016: yeah but if you are doing electra objective you can do mlm for "free"
zphang#7252: that's true, I've not seen it so far at least dmvaldman#4711: has anyone used "shower thought: " as a prompt for GPT3/GPT-neo? EricHallahan#1051: > shower thought: _I don't know. This is going to sound like a stupid question._ > > "Are you guys ready?" he said. > > They nodded. > > He took them through it, from where he sat on the couch. When he finished, he turned to Amy. Now they have. dmvaldman#4711: well thank you. it was worth a shot 🙂 EricHallahan#1051: You can visit #the-faraday-cage-archive for some interesting stuff. dmvaldman#4711: woah EricHallahan#1051: It is always hopping in there now. EricHallahan#1051: (Lame Bunny pun not intended) inox#5400: wow batbot's getting really good inox#5400: that channel moves so fast I have no idea what changes @BoneAmputee has made Louis#0144: Many times dmvaldman#4711: any winners? Louis#0144: Nah