MODAL –EN01,SBC039

KIRS: Um first of all maybe you guys can tell me (..) we talked a little bit about it last time you were here ?

KIRS: Or did we not talk about the history of the penguins .

AMY: Thanks .

DON: I wasn't here that weekend .

LORI: No .

LORI: No .

KIRS: Okay .

LORI: We talked about the endangered species .

KIRS: Okay .

KIRS: We have .

LORI: .

KIRS: on exhibit now about twenty-five of the thirty penguin chicks .

AMY: Wow .

AMY: (.) .

KIRS: That you have .

ENV: .

KIRS: Um .

LORI: Oops .

LORI: (..).

KIRS: Last year I s- want to say around Christmas time we went down the Shed Aquarium as well as other researchers and scientists went down to Antarctica to collect .

LORI: Mm .

KIRS: Gentu penguin eggs .

KIRS: Okay so I want to go into a little bit about the history of the Gentus here um for you- .

KIRS: For Don and Lori where .

KIRS: Where did our original Gentu penguins come from .

DON: Uh Faulklands .

DON: Wasn't it ?

KIRS: Where did the .

KIRS: But specifically ...

DON: Oh specifically in the islands ?

KIRS: Where did we get them for display here at the Shed Aquarium .

DON: Oh .

DON: From the um was it Edinburgh uh Zoo ?

KIRS: Yeah .

KIRS: Great .

DON: Yeah .

KIRS: In Scotland .

DON: Yeah .

DON: Right .

KIRS: Okay ?

AMY: Are those the ones that don't like people ?

AMY: The hands-off ones .

KIRS: Hands-off ones .

AMY: That came from .

AMY: Where's Ten from .

KIRS: There .

AMY: Or is that .

AMY: Oh okay .

KIRS: Yeah .

AMY: Well is .

AMY: What's the other species .

KIRS: Rockhoppers .

AMY: The .

AMY: No .

KIRS: Magellanics .

DON: Magellanic .

LORI: XXXX .

AMY: Yeah .

AMY: Okay .

KIRS: Ra- .

KIRS: Magellanics came from the John Ball Zoo in Grand Rapids Michigan .

DON: Mhm .

KIRS: So the Gentus which .

KIRS: I take it you work mammals as well ?

AMY: Yeah .

KIRS: Okay so feel free to add in .

AMY: I worked with the baby penguins when (..) cause I've only worked like a weekend but both days were spent with the penguins .

AMY: Feeding the baby penguins and then Ten and all of them .

KIRS: Great .

KIRS: Great .

KIRS: So feel free after I've go through this information you know .

LORI: XX .

KIRS: share any information you might have .

LORI: Mhm .

AMY: Well I'll probably have a lot of questions for you .

AMY: .

KIRS: from your experiences .

AMY: Okay .

KIRS: Cause that's uh you know .

LORI: Mhm .

KIRS: usually the best way that we can get some good detailed information is from volunteers that actually work uh in mammals .

KIRS: So we love that .

KIRS: Um anyway so we got the penguins our original batch of penguins from from this zoo in Scotland uh and um you know as you know you ship them over and they go into a quarantine period .

KIRS: And I do believe it was thirty days .

KIRS: Don't don't it's in my literature right there I'll check for certain .

KIRS: Uh that is required by the USDA basically there's there's a disease called n- Newcastle's Disease that is is very uh- contagious apparently and so there's always the potential of when you bring a bird over contamidate- .

KIRS: Contaminating the poultry .

AMY: Mm .

KIRS: Business .

KIRS: Okay and so that is th- background information for the reason for quarantining .

KIRS: Um with our uh- other penguins uh we brought them over from Scotland and as it turned out in a quarantine period that they had that a vi- .

KIRS: or I should say a fungus okay this Aspergillosis fungus had come to fruition and we had lost you know a good portion of penguins .

KIRS: So .

AMY: Wow .

KIRS: okay now it's time to consider replacing these penguins how do we want to go about doing that .

KIRS: Well really didn't want to go through transporting the birds .

KIRS: Didn't work last time a potential for bringing over diseases is obviously there so the thought was okay let's get some eggs .

KIRS: Um Sea World San Diego has Gentus and apparently just not enough eggs to share .

KIRS: If they had them they would gladly .

KIRS: Same situation with the Edinburgh Zoo they would gladly send us birds but they didn't feel that they had enough eggs to send over .

KIRS: So we really didn't want to go the bird route and so that left us the choice of going down to Antarctica and collecting some peng- .

KIRS: some penguin eggs ourselves .

KIRS: So they went to and I don't know if this is pronounced correctly Wiencke Island .

LORI: Yeah that's where a lot of seals are from as well .

DON: Hm .

KIRS: Okay .

LORI: Mhm .

KIRS: Cool .

LORI: Mhm ?

KIRS: Cool .

DON: That'll fit in with your class: .

LORI: I know .

LORI: .

KIRS: Yeah .

ALIC: Nicole is here .

KIRS: Hi Nicole .

NICO: Hi .

ALIC: Hey let me ...

KIRS: how you doing .

ALIC: Can I just interrupt for one minute .

NICO: Oh okay .

ALIC: can I see your ID .

NICO: Mine ?

ALIC: I don't think Darren put anything on it .

NICO: Mhm .

ALIC: Right .

ALIC: Okay .

KIRS: Why don't you have a seat .

NICO: Sure .

LORI: Oh I'm tired .

KIRS: So they went to Wiencke Island where a lot of seals are from and .

LORI: Mhm .

AMY: XXXX .

LORI: .

NICO: X ...

KIRS: collected eggs .

LORI: Mhm .

KIRS: Okay so the process was I'm just gonna finish up on my story the process was was they um they went to the nest okay from our staff it was Mark Ryan from marine mammals and Mike Mulligan from fishes and frankly I- I'm not quite sure who the entourage of other people were .

KIRS: But they went to the nest and basically waited for the penguin to stand up and checked to see if there were two eggs there .

AMY: Hm .

KIRS: Gentu penguins and this isn- .

KIRS: isn't true of all penguins often when a penguin lays eggs if it lays two one is smaller than the other .

KIRS: Gentus lay two equally sized eggs .

KIRS: Okay u:m .

LORI: Hm .

KIRS: the reason I mentioned that was if one was smaller he would have went for the smaller egg .

KIRS: Okay .

DON: Why .

KIRS: Because that would probably mean that .

LORI: Female ?

KIRS: Do you remember reading in the exhibit for the Rockhopper penguins downstairs they lay two different sized eggs .

DON: Mhm .

KIRS: Depending on the year and depending on the conditions of light um if it's a bad year or there's just not a lot of food resources um environmental conditions are rough it's a stormy bad year .

LORI: Mhm .

KIRS: A penguin might lay two eggs and at that point I don't .

KIRS: I don't really wanna use the word decide .

LORI: Mhm .

KIRS: that's kind of anthropomorphic but somehow figure out at this point I'm gonna kick out an egg .

LORI: Determine ?

DON: Ah .

LORI: Mhm .

KIRS: I'm going to determine through whatever .

AMY: Mm .

KIRS: however it does determine to do so .

NICO: Hm .

KIRS: will kick out an egg .

NICO: .

KIRS: Otherwise it will brood the two eggs and hatch em out .

KIRS: It's not uncommon that at this point they'll kick out the smaller chick .

DON: Right .

KIRS: If at that point conditions don't seem to be sufficient to support raising two of em it's kind of like hey why bother .

LORI: Mhm .

KIRS: And kick out one of .

KIRS: One of the chicks .

KIRS: If it's a great year on fat there's food di- it's a beautiful day .

DON: It's called penguin euthanasia .

LORI: .

KIRS: Okay .

DON: .

KIRS: .

DON: .

KIRS: They'll they'll they'll try to raise both .

LORI: .

KIRS: So .

LORI: .

KIRS: I didn't catch that .

KIRS: What wa- ...

DON: It's called penguin euthanasia .

KIRS: Sh: .

LORI: laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh .

KIRS: Yeah .

LORI: .

KIRS: Um so anyway .

KIRS: Apparently what th- what they .

KIRS: Now at this point they wanted to see okay now is there actually a fertile .

KIRS: Is there a fertile chick or developing chick inside .

LORI: Mhm .

KIRS: And apparently it was very very muddy it was abnormally warm and it was just a big mudbath out there and they couldn't .

KIRS: They couldn't clean off the mud enough to be able to see inside .

KIRS: To see if if it was viable .

KIRS: So they took an egg from nests that had two eggs .

KIRS: And I think this this report says within thirty-one hours the eggs were back here in Chicago .

LORI: Wow .

KIRS: That's pretty neat .

NICO: Oh .

KIRS: And then they took them to an off-site incubation area in Addison .

KIRS: Is anybody from Addison ?

KIRS: I don't know where Addison is .

NICO: I don't either .

X: It's a west suburb .

KIRS: West ?

AMY: Yes .

KIRS: So they were out in the west suburbs .

KIRS: And incubated there .

X: .

AMY: .

LORI: Mm .

AMY: .

KIRS: And apparently now they're about six to seven weeks old ?

NICO: Wow .

AMY: When I was here two weeks ago they were sixty days .

KIRS: T- s- two weeks ago it was sixty days ?

AMY: I think maybe it was four weeks ago .

KIRS: Okay .

AMY: Yeah .

KIRS: I think I think they're around six weeks old .

LORI: Mm .

KIRS: Okay ?

KIRS: But when you see them you'll see that they're just about as big as number ten .

KIRS: They're big .

LORI: N-kay .

AMY: Yeah .

AMY: When I .

AMY: Yeah when I was here they had they were losing all of their hair .

AMY: And they looked the two oldest ones looked like Ten .

KIRS: Right .

KIRS: Right .

KIRS: So basically what the process has been is we brought them here as chicks but they still had their downy feathers .

KIRS: Okay so as they lost their downy feathers they became eligible to go out onto exhibit .

KIRS: And so what they did last time you guys were here there was maybe ten .

KIRS: That were you know I say eligible to be out on exhibit .

NICO: .

KIRS: and what they would do is they would carry them in let them hang out for about a half an hour get acclimated to what was going on and then take them off .

KIRS: And do this .

KIRS: Now they're out .

KIRS: Now they're they are out on exhibit .

DON: All of them .

KIRS: uh Almost all of em .

KIRS: Two days ago there was twenty-five out on exhibit .

KIRS: So we have thirty chicks total .

DON: Right .

LORI: Hm .

KIRS: So twenty-five plus are out on exhibit .

DON: Okay .

KIRS: Um thing of it is is let's think a little bit about penguin natural history .

KIRS: Okay ?

KIRS: How how long do penguins spend on land .

DON: Three months I think .

KIRS: What's your guess .

LORI: Uh: .

DON: Three or is it three to six months ?

KIRS: Okay .

LORI: Um four ?

LORI: Five ?

KIRS: Six .

DON: Six ?

KIRS: Okay ?

NICO: Six months ?

KIRS: So it's it's basically .

NICO: Wow .

KIRS: it's an even even split .

DON: .

KIRS: between life out at sea and life on land .

KIRS: So the sequence of events is they come on to shore springtime they hook up with their mate they build a nest they mate they lay their eggs they brood their eggs they hatch their chicks they brood their chicks they feed their chicks they molt and then they're out to sea .

KIRS: So all of that has to happen within that six-month period that's a pretty busy bird .

LORI: .

NICO: .

KIRS: so .

DON: .

KIRS: the penguins need to grow the chicks in order to be ready to go out there for six months out at sea really need to be very well suited for that .

DON: .

KIRS: So they nee- need to be big they need to be hefty they need to have their adult feathers so .

AMY: Mm: .

KIRS: between the time that they actually hatch out and the time that they're ready to go out to sea is just a couple of months .

NICO: How long does it take for them to hatch .

KIRS: Well the incubation period .

MODAL –EN02,SBC008

ENV: TALK .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: Um .

ENV: .

REBE: The .

REBE: The way that your testimony is coming in (..) I don't know if I explained this to you on the phone .

RICK: Hmm.

REBE: is when a person is charged with multiple crimes and um there are other incidences where he acted in the same way ?

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: When we have to prove in this case we have to prove specific intent .

ENV: (..) to expose himself to a person for sexual arousal .

ENV: .

RICK: Mm .

REBE: um when we have to prove something like specific intent in um or we have to prove identity .

REBE: (..) Because he's disputing identity in a coup- .

REBE: in (..) at least one of the cases .

RICK: Hm .

REBE: um then we are allowed to bring in (..) prior similar conduct .

REBE: (..) um where he acted in a an identical way or where the victims were in a similar situation .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: Things like that That's why we're able to have you come in and testify .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: Okay um (..) the cases that we have (..) already are um one happened back in October of nineteen ninety (..) .

RICK: Alright .

REBE: and it happened on BART and it's almost a carbon copy of your case .

RICK: Well I've made two (..) one a year from (..) almost a year from the uh police report .

REBE: I saw that in your report .

REBE: I haven't seen the other report .

RICK: Yeah I made that one through matter of fact it was just over the phone and they never called me back or anything and a year later it happened again .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: and then that's when they made the report and said they were gonna do something about it .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: So it happened around ...

REBE: So you can testify to two of em .

RICK: uh ...

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: That's why I had you come up because .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: (..) um (..) that's great .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: Um I mean not for you .

RICK: .

REBE: but .

ARNO: .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: for us .

ALL: .

REBE: um (..) i- .

REBE: in our first case Amelia Gonzalez um (..) that uh that happened back in ninety .

REBE: And she was seated a- in the rear of the train .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: which you were .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: um (..) nobody else was around (..) and he sort of walked up and down the train .

RICK: Down the aisle Mhm .

REBE: checked everything out .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: (..) and then sat down .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: put the newspaper on his lap .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: masturbated and then lifted the paper up .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: for her to see .

REBE: (..) And she saw it in the the reflection .

RICK: n- n- .

RICK: Oh the mirror .

REBE: cause she was looking out the window .

RICK: That's how I did it too .

REBE: saying I don't want to see this .

RICK: Cause I didn't want to see him so I looked this way and you can see it .

REBE: (..) Right .

RICK: You know .

REBE: Cause it turns into the mirror effect .

RICK: Yeah mhm .

REBE: And he was just sort of staring at her and lifting up the paper .

RICK: Yeah mhm .

REBE: um (..) so anyway .

RICK: Exactly .

RICK: uh .

REBE: it c- .

REBE: it's a carbon copy .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: and um in that case he's in uhuh he sits through all the testimony and he just sort of shakes his head and makes these big gasps like you know we're creating this whole thing against him .

RICK: Hm .

REBE: Um .

ARNO: .

REBE: and then with June .

ARNO: .

REBE: um the woman that just walked ou:t .

RICK: Unhunh .

REBE: um (..) she was riding on BART and (..) he came and sat near her (..) she moved (..) he moved to get closer to her she moved again and he moved directly opposite her .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: and then started masturbating .

REBE: .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: So .

RICK: (..) well see what it is it seems like he wants someone more scary (..) y- I don't know cause (..) he would walk up and down the aisles there was women on the other side too but they'd look like you know you wouldn't mess with em but if you're sitting there you know trying to mind your own business or .

REBE: Right .

RICK: look like you can intimidate someone you know .

REBE: Right .

RICK: I ...

ARNO: X .

RICK: that's what it look like .

REBE: I think that's I think he he finds somebody that's isolated .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: and he goes for a certain age group I think .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: um and you know like uhuh for some reason I think he likes students or people who look like students: .

RICK: Unhunh .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: So anyway okay um did you (..) as far as your (..) um (..) mileage goes .

REBE: (..) What would did ...

RICK: Oh how much was it .

ARNO: Hundred and thirty s- I don't know .

REBE: (..) Okay .

RICK: (..) And we got the um (..) that ticket for our ?

REBE: Parking ?

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: (..) They moved the gate or something ?

RICK: (..) The how to get in the parking lot (..) in cause it used to be on X .

REBE: Oh yeah .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: Because they built this building .

RICK: Oh.

RICK: See.

REBE: That's where the yeah .

RICK: we had to get back all the way on the freeway .

REBE: Oh no: .

RICK: and I was like oh God there was a door here before a entrance you know .

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: I couldn't find it .

REBE: .

RICK: but uh we found it .

REBE: Um (..)oh okay .

REBE: Do you know how much it's gonna be ?

RICK: (..) Oh no not yet .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: um do you guys have the cash to pay for it right now ?

REBE: (..) When you- to get out ?

RICK: Yeah I think so .

ARNO: Yeah .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: Then what I'll do is (..) when .

REBE: you can .

REBE: I'll call you and find out .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: What I have to do is submit all of this to our accounting department .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: and they give you (..) the they'll mail you the reimbursement .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: So you guys hang on to that .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: so you can get out .

ARNO: Okay .

RICK: Alright .

REBE: And then (..)I imagine it will be about five dollars or so .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: um so .

REBE: (..) a hundred and thirty about a hundred and thirty five you think ?

ARNO: Yeah .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: (..) So round trip it'll be like two seventy .

RICK: two si- .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: (..) .

RICK: (..) .

REBE: (..) That's from Salinas ?

RICK: (..) Mhm .

RICK: (..) .

REBE: (..) Do you go by Rickie Reeding- R- Reeding Rollins or do you just go by Rickie Rollins .

RICK: (..) Uh R- .

RICK: um well my name is Regina I just go by Rickie .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: uh I don't know if you have to put my (..) Regina in there .

REBE: Yeah probab- .

RICK: um i- .

RICK: Regina Rollins is fine it doesn't matter .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: Whatever is easier for you guys .

RICK: .

REBE: (..) You guys newly married ?

RICK: (..) Well just a year .

ARNO: A year two days ago .

RICK: .

REBE: Oh great .

ARNO: .

REBE: (..) Soon you'll be in my condition .

RICK: .

REBE: which is pregnant .

RICK: Aw really ?

ARNO: Aw .

REBE: .

RICK: Congratulations .

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: .

REBE: Thanks.

REBE: Okay .

RICK: .

REBE: (..) Let's just go through um I- I have your statement but I just want to (.) have you tell me .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: what happened .

RICK: Alright .

REBE: (..) Um .

RICK: .

REBE: (..) do you remember the date ?

RICK: (..) No .

REBE: (..) Okay .

REBE: Because I'll be (..) saying to you do you recall on August twelfth nineteen ninety two .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: Okay and it was about one o'clock ?

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: (..) So (..) first of all where did you get on BART .

RICK: At Oakland .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: And where were you going .

RICK: (..) um to the doctor's in San Francisco .

RICK: (..) San Francisco .

REBE: and um (..) when you got on BART I'll ask you to describe where you sat on the train .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: and let me show you in um what I have in (..) This is a diagram of the interior of BART .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: (..) Okay looking at that these are the backs of the seats .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: So facing that way okay .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: um (..) can you .

REBE: .

RICK: (..) um (..) that's the train .

RICK: Right ?

REBE: Right .

RICK: That seat right there I always sit going backwards .

RICK: I have...

REBE: Okay so the train was traveling that way .

RICK: Yeah un hunh .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: (..) So (..) um.

RICK: And it's hard to describe how so yeah .

RICK: I was sitting backwards in the back seat .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: .

RICK: The very end seat .

REBE: and when he came in when where was he when you first saw him come in .

RICK: uh He got on the train on like I think Twelfth Street or something ?

RICK: in Oakland ?

RICK: And like in a (..) let me see .

RICK: (..) Okay .

RICK: (..) He got on another car .

RICK: (..) But you can .

RICK: I I seen him because I seen him a year ago .

REBE: Unhunh .

RICK: So I seen him when the (..) you know how the train goes and you can see everybody out the window well he got in another door .

REBE: O kay .

RICK: And he came through here .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: Alright .

REBE: So he came through here .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: when he came through here did he look at you at all ?

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: Initially ?

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: What did he do .

RICK: Just looked he had a ...

REBE: Did he stop walking ?

RICK: just kinda looked and then looked and then walked .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: And then he kept walking .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: When he looked at you the first time was he sort of looking you up and down or did he just look at your seat what- ...

RICK: Just like you know look .

RICK: uh uh I guess X ..

REBE: At you ?

RICK: At me .

RICK: Di- ...

REBE: Okay .

RICK: Yeah and look at my seat cause I always sit all the way to the window .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: So I thought he was gonna sit down .

RICK: Actually .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: Hunh .

REBE: And then he continued on .

RICK: Unhunh .

REBE: and where did he go .

RICK: He went all the way to the you know into the train .

REBE: All the way up here ?

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: And then uh he went through the door and then he came back .

RICK: (..) again .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: He went through there .

REBE: He went through these doors ?

RICK: into it unhunh into another car .

REBE: Oh .

RICK: And then he came back again and then I guess that was like another stop and more people were getting off and then that's when he came and sat by me sat in this seat right here .

RICK: But there was someone sitting there too .

RICK: there was a lady .

REBE: You're kidding .

RICK: Unhunh there was a lady sitting there but she got up and she went to another seat .

REBE: (..) Ah : .

RICK: She she just went to a different seat .

REBE: (..) Okay .

RICK: You know like but he was m:aking uh I don't know how you describe it you know how you can be like a nuisance to someone ?

REBE: Mhm .

RICK: Or you may smell or something .

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: you know like that you know .

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: or moving around you know like as he wanted her to move .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: And she got up and moved .

REBE: S- she okay .

REBE: um (..) and so when she moved was there anybody seated .

RICK: X .

REBE: in this area .

RICK: I think maybe like you know how these chairs are ?

REBE: Unhunh .

RICK: Maybe right here and you know .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: but you couldn't they couldn't see nothing or anybody .

REBE: Okay but nobody right .

RICK: No .

REBE: in these areas .

RICK: I don't believe so .

REBE: Okay .

REBE: Alright .

REBE: So then what did he do .

RICK: um (..) did the newspaper uh.

RICK: you know looking at it you know making loud noises I guess so I think like that or whatever then he just kept doing that to the newspaper like that and then he went in and then he just you can just see him going like this you know how you have to unzip your pants ?

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: or something like that and I'm looking through the window .

RICK: and then he's still making noises with the paper and then um I kinda looked and then I didn't and I kept making like uh you know like you know like I know what you're ...

REBE: He was making noises like that ?

RICK: No he was making those you know the rattling paper .

REBE: Unhunh .

RICK: but I was making noises like you know like I wanted him to know I know what you're doing .

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: You know I remembered him for a year .

RICK: from a year ago .

RICK: And so then I just kept you know I just turned you know away from him and I looked in the window and he just kept hitting the paper .

RICK: like that you know ?

RICK: But you know what he was doing .

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: He kept hitting the paper and um uh let me see then one time I just you know kinda looked over and then you can see it .

RICK: You know you can see it .

REBE: Had he lifted up the paper in any way or .

RICK: Yeah just like you know I'm trying to see how a paper goes likes thi- .

REBE: Like this .

RICK: Okay uhuhuh like he has the paper like like this just like you know moves it .

RICK: Like that .

RICK: You know like that .

REBE: Oh .

RICK: You know and you can see it .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: You know ?

REBE: Was he looking at you at all during that time .

RICK: Yes .

RICK: The whole entire time .

REBE: Okay .

RICK: I mean not looking at first he would go like this even with the paper .

RICK: And look at me .

RICK: You know trying to get my attention.

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: Like he wanted me to look at him .

RICK: And then the whole time under here he'd just look .

RICK: I mean uhuh he looked so hard that it was like burning you know what I mean ?

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: It- .

RICK: .

REBE: Tell the jury that .

RICK: Okay.

REBE: That's .

REBE: I mean that's great .

RICK: He just alright .

RICK: uh ...

REBE: Because that's what he does .

RICK: Okay .

REBE: And that's his way of drawing your attention to him .

RICK: Mhm .

REBE: because if somebody's doing that to you there's no way you're gonna you know just totally ignore them .

RICK: Yeah .

REBE: cause you're always going to wanna keep them in your peripheral vision .

RICK: .

REBE: at least .

RICK: Yeah .

ARNO: Mhm .

REBE: to make sure where they are .

RICK: Mhm.

RICK: Yeah .

RICK: Cause I was you know I didn't know what he was gonna do .

REBE: Yeah .

RICK: or anything so .

REBE: so um- part of our burden is to prove that he's deliberately doing th- that he has the specific intent to draw your attention to him .

RICK: Okay .

MODAL –EN03,SBC053

X: .. (COUGH)

JUDGE: ... Okay, the next case will be= uh, ~Walter ~Komak versus ~Rose ~Black?

BAILIFF: ... Is this contested?

X: No, [Just wit]nesses and case.

ROSE: [No].

BAILIFF: .. Oh okay.

X: (THROAT)

BAILIFF: Are you X -- Are you the uh ... plaintiff?

ROSE: Yes... No. I'm the defendant.

BAILIFF: ... [Oh].

ROSE: [But I]'m the plaintiff,. on the countersuit.

X: ... (THROAT)[=].

BAILIFF: [Oh].

X: ... Let me have this pen X for a minute X.

X_2: h .

X_3: ... (COUGH)[=]

X: [XX] that's never worked P.

X_2: [Yeah].

ROSE: [Sign here]

X: Yes X

JUDGE: ... Okay now, this is a case that a v- --originally was filed by ~Walter ~Komak, who is now present, not present,... against ~Rose ~Black, ... u=m,... asking for a security deposit,... and since he's not he=re ... uh, we= will not rule in favor of him,... and then there was a cross complaint,... defendant's claim,... uh=,... by uh .. ~Rose ~Black,... for five-hundred and thirty-three dollars,... balance of rent due, at the end of the lease... And Miss ~Black, I presume you're the landlord. Is that [correct]?

ROSE: Yes. .. Mhm.

JUDGE: And was there a uh written agreement, or a uh lease?

ROSE: Yes.

JUDGE: ... Was it a l- --uh month to month,or a uh,

ROSE: A year.

JUDGE: .. A one-year lea[se].

ROSE: [O]ne year [lease].

JUDGE: [Let me] see that please. ... O=kay. So now=, uh=, how do you arrive at the five thirty-three, you say that they, that Mister ~Komak owes you.

ROSE: ... Uh this was the,... u=m, breakdown of the security deposit.

JUDGE: Let me see that please.... So there was original security deposit of eighteen-hundred and seventy-five dolla[rs],

ROSE: [That's] correct.

JUDGE: ... And then you did some repairs on uh, reinstalling screen[s]?

ROSE: [R]ight.

JUDGE: ... Okay. How come they were --it was necessary to do that?

ROSE: ... (H) % They had removed the screen[s].

JUDGE: [Okay]... Alright. ... And then u=m, .. they owed some rent. They were behind in their rent?

ROSE: ... Uh, they were not behind in the rent, .. the -- .. The lease was terminated, because of their behavior. .. They ... broke .. uh s- one of the conditions of the lease, which was not to disturb the other tenants there.

JUDGE: .. O[kay],

ROSE: [So] I had to give them a three-day notice .. to leave.

JUDGE: ... T- uh, three-day notice .. to= --

ROSE: Quit.

JUDGE: ... Well I know, but, [normally] you would give em three-day notice to perform uh,

ROSE: [ < O[kay] >,

JUDGE: [One of the] covenants, such as [3uh,

X: [(THROAT)]

JUDGE: keep quiet.

ROSE: They were not able to be quiet.... % % U[=m what ha-] --

JUDGE: [Okay, so] then they -- ... So then they left within that three days?

ROSE: ... No. They left a month later. .. At the end of June. ... They paid the rent for June,

JUDGE: ... [Okay],

ROSE: [and they] left, uh July first. And there were two months .. left .. of the lease.

JUDGE: [D-] --

ROSE: [XX]

JUDGE: And rent's uh, thousand uh,.. [two-hundred] --

ROSE: [Twelve] seventy-[five].

JUDGE: [five]. O[kay].

ROSE: [Mhm].

JUDGE: ... Now, u=m, ... did you rerent the -- rerent the premises.

ROSE: Yes I did. As of August twenty-eighth. ... So it reduced, uh, that seven-hundred three, to five thirty-three.

JUDGE: ... Uh=, seven thirty-thr-,I'm not sure wh- where the seven thirty-three comes in.

ROSE: Seven o three [was the bal]ance that they owed me,

JUDGE: [Seven o three].

ROSE: ... after they moved out.

JUDGE: Right. But there's a credit,because they m- -- you [got] --

ROSE: [That's] correct.

JUDGE: Okay. So you're giving a three-day's uh ... credit, and [how much] is the daily rent?

ROSE: [Mm], ... It was forty-two fifty.

JUDGE: .. Okay. So, how much do you say they now owe you?

ROSE: ... Five-hundred and thirty-three [dollar-].

JUDGE: [<X And I don't X>] -- and that's what you put down [on your cross complaint.

ROSE: [That's correct.

JUDGE: I see.

ROSE: .. Mhm].

JUDGE: O]kay. ... Well that seems uh=, ... fundamentally fair, and they're not disputing it, so I will grant you your request... And I will hand back your documents.

ROSE: Thank you very much.... And how do I get them to pay.

BAILIFF: [Go] to the small claims court office, they have some paper work >,

ROSE: ... [ Thank you P].

X: [XXX]

BAILIFF: ... < There's a small-claims advisor that you can ask >.

ROSE: < Thank you >.

JUDGE: ... Okay, the next case will be uh, ~Mitchell ~Roberts, versus uh ~Matthew ~Collins, ~ABC Builders Interiors?

BAILIFF: ... This -- both sides are here? ... Is this contested?

MITCHELL: ... X BAILIFF: ... Who's ~Mitchell ~Roberts.

MITCHELL: Right here.

BAILIFF: .. Okay. ... Sit on this side here.... XXX

X: ... < Sure >.

BAILIFF: ... Who's the .. party being s- ... served... You are?

X: ... Thank you.

BAILIFF: .. Nice pen. Alright

JUDGE: ... O=kay, let's see, who's here now. Mister ~Roberts?

MITCHELL: ... Right here.

JUDGE: ... And you brought an action,.. against uh ~Matthew ~Collins,for um, ... roughly seven-hundred dollars, ... for labor installing a carpet. T- uh=, ... during last uh August to September,... okay,

and uh=,.. just tell me about how you arrived at uh this claim.

MITCHELL: ... Uh I was called by ... ~Matthew here,... to= do the job for him. So I went out and looked at the job,

JUDGE: .. Okay, you run a -- you run a .. a carpet business I [presume]?

MITCHELL: [Yes]. I'm a licensed contractor.

JUDGE: Okay.

MITCHELL: ... U=m, the job was out at UCSB,... I went and estimated the job for myself, to see if I could take the job,... for what he wanted to pay for it, ... and I let him know that I could not.... Do the job ... I wouldn't make any money.... So uh,... upon me .. telling him that,... he offered, ... to pay ... my employees, ... fill out, he had em fill out double-u two forms all of em, ... and <X he X> paid him, to lessen the burden of payment on me,... so that I in turn would make more money off the job.... I agreed to that, ... after about --

JUDGE: ... Ca- % .. i=s that a normal procedure XX,

MITCHELL: Not at all.... He wanted me to do the job,... so he offered to take some of the monitory burden off my back, ... so that I could do it for the agreed amounts that we were gonna do it on.

JUDGE: .. So in other words, your -- your helpers would really be his employees [for the purpose] of this job,

MITCHELL: [That's correct]. He had em all fill out the plo- proper forms.

JUDGE: ... So then your costs would be reduced there as far as,

MITCHELL: .. That's correc[t].

JUDGE: [A]lright.

MITCHELL: ... Uh,... I went to receive my check, ... of which,... we had agreed,.. that he would deduct, ... the amount ... of .. the hourly wage,.. that [he was] --

JUDGE: [Was this a]greement in writing, or verbal (Hx).

MITCHELL: ... Completely verbal. I've been working with him for like six years. ... Uh, .. upon a reve- uh -- uh ... receiving my check,... uh=, ... for about ... two and a half weeks of work, ... approximately between fifty and seventy hours, I was paid three-hundred and sixteen dollars and fifty-one cents.... So I approached him with it,... and he handed me this yellow piece of paper here, ... and noted that, ... what the employees made, ... a=nd uh,.. at twenty-six percent less deduction on these two employees. ... Which was the employer contribution. ... So I= noted to him that he was supposed to pay that, ... he said, uh= n-, ... no, ... you're gonna pay it. ... So I said that's not ... as per our agreement,he said yes it is, he handed me my check, rolled up his window, and drove off.... And he's there to state, .. he's --... he saw that, and was .. witness to that.... I have [a letter],

JUDGE: [I don- I don't] think it's relevant that he rolled up his window and drove off .

MITCHELL: [We]ll, I know... But, ... that- -- that was the end of our thing, I tried to contact him everything,... finally I uh .. contacted my attorney,... I'd like to present this letter to you here.

JUDGE: ... Okay. If I may look at that. And,.. [have you shown] that to uh Mister ~Collins?

MITCHELL: [Yes please]. Yes. He has -- .. he has ... received ... a copy of that letter.

X: ... (THROAT)

JUDGE: ... Now ~Stu ~Roberts is an attorney. Is that correct?

MITCHELL: .. Yes sir,

JUDGE: ... You're uh,

MITCHELL: ... I'm his nephew.

JUDGE: <P You're his nephew P>. ... And you're ~Nick ~Ro- .. ~Roberts' nephew too then.

MITCHELL: ... That's correct,

JUDGE: .. Okay.... So uh your uncle then wrote uh Builders uh a letter, that's what I'm reading now,

MITCHELL: ... Yes sir,

JUDGE: ... Uh I do emphasize that I'm reading it, this is not evidence, this is only y- your story, tha[t you've told] ... Mister ~Roberts,

MITCHELL: [That's correct], ... That's correct,

JUDGE: <P Okay P>. ... (TSK) So really the dispute then boils down to this twenty-six percent.

MITCHELL: .. That's it sir.

JUDGE: ... Okay.

MITCHELL: ... That's the reason why I had him ... fill out that portion of, or he ... wanted to ... write those checks... Was so I would save that money, so I would do that job.

JUDGE: ... Okay.

MITCHELL: At the end of the job.

JUDGE: .. Mister ~Collins I know you're, ... biting at the bit there, you wanna (Hx) say something, so why don't you go ahead.

MATTHEW: .. Okay thank you your honor. ... U=m,... uh pretty much (Hx),.. u=m,... what ~Mitchell has stated is untrue. ... ~Mitchell,... uh did do some work for me out at the college, we did the Anacapa Residential Hall. ... A=nd this is a, ... eight-thousand-yard job, .. that we did this summer.... (H) It required us to, .. employ,... oh five or six crews, ... uh ~Mitchell ~Roberts was one of them that we used, on the job, ... Uh ~Mitchell ... expressed a desire to do the work out there, ... he expressed,... he did not know how to= handle the payroll. ... Most of the ... uh contractors here in town, that are independents like ~Mitchell,... don't know how to do prevailing wage [statements].

X: [(THROAT)]

MATTHEW: .. The college is a ... state-funded uh ... uh ... remodel,... and on state-funded remodels, we're required,... to pay prevailing wages.... Uh prevailing wages,.. that,... um, ... that indicate different ... levels of agility, ... of the different men working.... And so,.. uh a lot of the crew=s, ... uh, ... like ~Mitchell,.. who have .. people that work ... under him, .. around town, in .. regular situations, ... come to the people like me, and ask us to do payroll for them. ... When we do the payroll for them, ... we state to them up front, ... that ... uh, we will pay the payroll, ... we will make the deductions,... and then .. the employer contribution, ... which is approximately twenty-six percent,... over and above .... the hourly wage, ... is also deducted,... from .. the .. um ... subcontractor's check.

JUDGE: .. Now this uh .. th- twenty-six percent, that'd be .. be social security, and what else would it include.

MATTHEW: ... Um (Hx),

JUDGE: .. Sorta like um,

MITCHELL: ... <X Th[at's anything X> above] that.

MATTHEW: [Well you have] --You have,

X: ... XXX

MATTHEW: ... you have that -- ... I have a breakdown here, of what we paid ~Mitchell's men.

JUDGE: [XXXXX]

MATTHEW: [if you'd like to see that].

JUDGE: ... Okay. ... I mean, do -- yeah, y- you got a total of uh,... seven point six five percent employer contributions on the,

MATTHEW: ... Um, ... that explains it pretty well, there's quite a few deductions, .. of course- -- ... [X],

JUDGE: [Oh] and and the oh the -- the annual unemployment insurance, and uh,

MATTHEW: Right.

JUDGE: Oka[y].

MATTHEW: [wor]ker's compensatio[n,

JUDGE: [Right].

MATTHEW: F]UDA .. FICA, et cetera.... Now that's, ... u=m,... in any payroll deduction situation, you have, ... the employee contribution, ... which is deducted from the employee's ... wages, gross wages,

.. and then you have the employer's ... contribution,

[which is over and] above that.

X: [(THROAT)]

MATTHEW: ... Which the employer has to pay.... Now the agreement that we had made, ... with a=ll of the ... um, ... subcontractors, uh, ... ~Mark ~Preston's sitting here, ... which is testifying for ~Mitch ~Roberts, ... also did work for me, ... and he was treated the same way. We .. paid him, ... we took his deductions out, ... as well as ... that, ... and, so we, uh did that,... with everybody.

JUDGE: ... Okay wai- -- I wanna make sure now. That would be fine if that was the agreement.Now you say that the w- --

you under- -- you explained that to Mister ~Roberts?

MATTHEW: ... Uh yes sir... Before he went to work.

JUDGE: .. Okay. Mister ~Roberts, did you have any conversations,

MITCHELL: ... Absolute[ly not].

JUDGE: [with ~Matthew] ~Collins about that.

MITCHELL: ... The reason,... and I stress this. And I don't like to waste the court's time. ... But,... my ... total, I agree --<X If X> whatever he just said right there was true, with ... withholding and every[thing].

JUDGE: [R]ight I'm --

MITCHELL: ... That was fine.

JUDGE: ... It really boils [down],

MITCHELL: [But] --

JUDGE: what- what was the discussion the agreement regarding this,

MITCHELL: ... The dis[cussion],

JUDGE: [X]

MITCHELL: The agreement would be, that he would pay everything.... So that [I wouldn't] --

JUDGE: [Did he say eve]rything.

MITCHELL: Y- everything. ... So that I wouldn't end up making, after fifty hou- fifty hours work, which I knew I was gonna make, when I had to <X play X> my em- part of an employer contribution, ... I have my own payroll service. They do all that for me, and they're very familiar with all ... types of pay.... This is why I didn't wanna take the job to begin with.

JUDGE: ... Uh [I can u- --

MITCHELL: [He in turn] --

JUDGE: I can] appreciate that. .. [now],

MITCHELL: [Okay],

JUDGE: .. Mister ~Collins says,... he denies that you said,... everything. Right? He just X

MITCHELL: [I wouldn't]'ve -- I wouldn't['ve done it].

MATTHEW: [Well],

JUDGE: ... You have a different .. story, on what .. the agreement was.

MATTHEW: .. Right.... U=m, .. uh ~Karen here,... uh, does all the payroll, a=nd .. uh, ... she's here to testify about a conversation,... that .. her and ~Mitchell had, in our office, about this very thing,

and I'd [like to] --

JUDGE: [Before] or after the= agreement was entered into.

MATTHEW: .. After the agreement was entered into,... he had been on the job for about a week or so, ... and, it was time, ... I believe for the-, ... first or second pay ... period for his men,... Uh he came into the office, and had a conversation with ~Karen, ... about,... A the payroll,... and B this twenty-six percent that we're talking about. And [she'd be hap]py to tell you --

JUDGE: [Okay ma'am], .. why don't you please, .. explain the= conversation you had with Mister ~Roberts.

KAREN: ... Okay. U=m, he was -- ... we were going over the wages for ~Phil ~Nigel, .. who was one of the .. gentlemen on there, ... as to .. how much .. ~Phil was to get,... for the job. .. On an hourly basis.

... A=nd, he had mentioned to me, that he was wanting him to get ex amount, (H) and I said okay, if it's ex amount to ~Phil, then, plus twenty-six percent means, I take out ... this amount, ... from your check.

... And he goes oh. Well then .. no, I don't wanna have the, you know, take out that much. (H) So= we were going back and forth with the figures, and so finally, ... this is .. the=,... uh=, ... wage that we came up with, which was thirteen [fifty to] ~Phil,

X: [(THROAT)]

KAREN: ... And then have seventeen dollars .. an hour, taken out of ~Mitch ... 's check. ... ~Mitch ~Roberts' check.... And this is the (H) note that I'd written down on that. A=nd then, ... you can see that thirteen fifty plus twenty-six percent,which is three fifty-one, (H) would actually equal to seventeen o one, [and I said,

MATTHEW: [Why don't you show him the note].

KAREN: .. You know],... just the seventeen was [fine].

JUDGE: [ Oh this ] -- ... So, d- did you have [that conver]sation.

MITCHELL: [I don't] -- ... I had that perfect conversation with her. .. And that's very true, exactly what you said. ... But she never told me anything about, ... this twenty-six percent, that was coming a- come out of my check. ... Why- -- .. It's --

X: ... go ahead.

MARK: ... I was offered, ~Matthew offered me, I'm ~Mark ~Preston, I'm a licensed contractor also, and ~Matthew (H) offered me the same ... situation. ... And it was my understanding,... that he was to pay ... everything. Supply the glue,... (TSK) (H) supply -- and take care of my guys, and make the payroll, .. and pay all of the employer's stuff. ... If you're an employer, you gotta pay the stuff. .. You gotta pay all the extra thing[s].

JUDGE: [But], you don't have any --... y- [you] can't testify,

X: [(COUGH)]

JUDGE: unless I'm wrong, about the conversation those two had. You weren't there. Is that correc[t]?

MARK: [I] know for a fact that, ... [Mitch was mak-] --

MATTHEW: [He was not there].

MARK: M- and- -- he just mentioned that he -- ~Matthew just mentioned that he deducted the same out of my check? ... He did not I worked strictly by the yard, and I paid my people... [Prevailing wages].

JUDGE: [Well any agreement he had] with you is not relevant to the agreement he had with Mister ~Roberts.

MARK: Well, %% I saw the people's checks, ... a=nd, ... I'm just drawing a pi-, verify what ~Mitch said. ... H- ~Ma- Mister ~Collins was supposed to pay ... everything.

MITCHELL: ... He approached him [with the same],

MARK: [Fir- f- f-] -- with the exact same thing, (H) And he d- -- ~Jerry ~Stillman he did the same thing, he did the same thing with ~Marco ~Villaremo.... Who're all licensed contractors.

JUDGE: ... But I still -- I still don't [know] --

MARK: [(THROAT)]

JUDGE: that may have been on other cases, the question is, did he do it in this case.

MITCHELL: .. He --.. it would be,... if <X it may please you X>, ... %uh, .. the whole reason why I'm here. ... Is because he took that twenty-six percent out, that he told me he wasn't gonna take, ... he used it as, .. more or less bait me to do the job, ... and went ahead and withheld it from me. ... Without saying a word to it, I had nothing, .. I was expecting to make about a thousand dollars on the job,

JUDGE: I understand that.

MITCHELL: ... And, .. when he wrote my check. ... He wrote my check to me, ... handed it to me through a window,... says that's the way it is,... and th- -- and and you know -- it wasn't --and- he % totally evaded me, .. he has to this day evaded me,

JUDGE: .. Mister ~Roberts. .. That's beside the point. What I'm trying to % --... We have to really hone in on-, what was the agreement. Not how he [paid you,

MITCHELL: [The agreement was,

JUDGE: If he --

MITCHELL: .. That],

JUDGE: .. You know], I don't care if he folded an airplane and ma- -- and sailed [it through the air],

MITCHELL: [He would pay] all my employees. That was the agreement. ... [Everything].

JUDGE: [But he di-] -- he disputes that.

MITCHELL: ... Well, I understand that. That's why we're here your honor.

JUDGE: .. <Okay >.... But, you're the plaintiff. You have the burden of proving your case. That's the problem I have is,.. you've gotta convince me by a preponderance of evidence, that what you're saying is true.

MITCHELL: ... [Well then if] --JUDGE: [More- -- more li]kely than not. Now you say one thing and he says another,

MITCHELL: ... Then -- when- when a person .. fills out, or has other employees fill out the double-u two forms and everything, ... why would I become liable,... for that contribution. When h- .. when he in fact by law, is now employing those employees.... He's the employer. ... I am doing nothing. ... (H) Isn't there a law that states that fact? ... When you have, ... uh people, ... work for you, and fill out specific forms to the state, ... [stating that]?

JUDGE: [Tell me again]. Wh- -- what were the -- what was the agreement again? Go- go through the -- .. y- conversation as you saw it.

MITCHELL: ... Conversation was, ~Mitch, if you do this job, ... I'll go ahead and pay all your employees, and you in turn will be able to pa- make more money.

JUDGE: ... That was pretty much it.

MITCHELL: ... That's it. ... That's to the point,

JUDGE: Oh [so he in ef]fect said,

MITCHELL: [And that's it].

JUDGE: I will pay your employ[ees].

MITCHELL: [That]'s correct.... And he did sir. ... And then when it came to the employer contribution, ... without my knowledge or anything, until I received this check, ... he just yanked that right out of my check.

JUDGE: ... And Mister ~Collins %,... that conv- -- tell me about the conversation .. you believe .. happened,

MATTHEW: ... Well, ... u=m, ... ~Mitch and I,.. u=m, ~Mitch had come to me and said he would do the work out there, ... but he wanted to do the work under the basis that I paid his men, ... and I told him about, ... what I said earlier here,

JUDGE: .. About the twenty-six percent?

MATTHEW: Yes,

JUDGE: That was mentioned to him.

KAREN: [Always].

MATTHEW: [Oh yes]. Uh, always, it was mentioned with ~Karen here, on her note of nine two ninety-three, that she wrote down her note that she talked with him,

RADIO: <X Twelve fourteen X>.

MATTHEW: ... and .. at .. uh, at every juncture.... He was --... uh made aware of,... the= uh, the contributions, ... were made by the employer.These were his men,.. and we were doing a service for him, under this agreement that we had between us.

MODAL-EN04,SBC007

MARY: God I said I wasn't gonna do this anymore. Stay up late. Kinda defeats the purpose of getting up in the morning.

ALIC: I know. And it's a hard habit to break. Usually I don't

MARY: It i:s.

ALIC: Usually I don't stay up late. But it's like if I'm up after midnight? [laugh] It's just like .

MARY:

ALIC: Hm:. [laugh] [laugh] Yeah yeah.

MARY: What can I do now.

ALIC: [laugh] [laugh][laugh] [laugh] [laugh].

MARY: [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] in.

ALIC: SWALLOW I still can't ʔuh

MARY: SWALLOW.

ALIC: God I still can't believe Tim bitching around and he lied too. He said that he talked to Ron and all this other shit?

MARY: About what.

ALIC: About the way they were feeling of them being the only ones cleaning the house and all this other shit? I mean what they don't realize is like shit when Ron gets home from wor:k I wanna spend time with Ron because Ron usually doesn't get home till [laugh] nine or ten.

MARY: Yeah.

ALIC: Unlike Tim he has to work for every little dime that he makes. You know?

MARY: Yeah.

ALIC: He doesn't get any breaks.

MARY: Yeah Tim is on salary and he can take leave and.

ALIC: Mhm and he earns leave.

MARY: he's

ALIC: he gets sick leave we don't get shit.

MARY: I don't know. It is really hard living with another couple.

ALIC: I mean we. If we set our. If we sit down and set some rules which we never did it could work. You know.

MARY: Mhm.

ALIC: what it amounts to is mutual r- respect and l- like Tim told Ron he told him he goes um what was it he goes nobody fucks with my lifestyle. [laugh] I feel the exact same way. And all those bitches and complaints that he has; they're about my lifestyle.

MARY: Mhm,

ALIC: And he doesn't realize that.

MARY: THROAT.

ALIC: And that's what I'm gonna tell him.

MARY: We’ll uh you know.

ALIC: And the only way it's gonna work is if we have respect for one another.

MARY: That's right. That's right.

ALIC: And it doesn't mean in going to our parents and complaining about one another, I'm gonna tell him if you have any complaints you talk to the person that you have the complaint about. I'm also going to suggest weekly house meetings to discuss such things.

MARY: Mhm. Oh yeah. Yeah. You know what it would be a real good lesson for them too in self assertiveness.

ALIC: Yep.

MARY: you know and, especially the way um I mean Tim gets in- himself into an uncomfortable situation or whatever in and his first reaction is to blow up about it.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: You know cause he let. he lets it pile up.

ALIC: Yep.

MARY: He doesn't do nothing positive about it and then he just blows up.

ALIC: And if something bothers you, you go and you I was, like last year I was really proud of myself when I was asked to take over intermediate algebra?

MARY: Unhunh.

ALIC: And teach it?

MARY: DRINK DRINK.

ALIC: And I did.

MARY: DRINK SWALLOW.

ALIC: And I also went.

MARY: DRINK SWALLOW.

ALIC: and I asked for a raise instead of

MARY: SWALLOW.

ALIC: cause instead of just sitting in the class and getting five dollars an hour I was now gonna be up there teaching it,

MARY: Mhm,

ALIC: and instead of getting the five dollars an [laugh] hour I ended up getting fifteen.

MARY: Really.

ALIC: But I went and I asked. Now if i-. You know if you put a situation like that to Tim or Mandy cause not because they're they're weak in character or anything but because they're

MARY: They're babies.

ALIC: Yeah. They hem and haw around and somebody else would have to talk for them. You know?

MARY: Yeah. I don't know. And it's Right now uh, I don't know if I should mention it to him, or what, but I'm feeling like he's taking me for granted.

ALIC: Yep. And he's rolling in it, Mary. And you know what the sad thing, the thing that really scares me? is that they're n. th- at the rate they're going and with all the breaks that they've gotten, they're never gonna have hard times.

MARY: Hard times do train you.

ALIC: Yep.

MARY: They do.

ALIC: Like I came over here to work with Danae, which is what I'm going to do, I'm going to do some translations for her and stuff?

MARY: Yeah.

ALIC: tonight? And um.

MARY: DRINK.

ALIC: THROAT you know, I have to make at least fifty dollars or so.

MARY: SWALLOW.

ALIC: to make it worth my time but like tonight, well I called, you know, this thing was going on with Buck and everything so I called um Mandy's or I called our house, and Mandy answered the phone, and I said where's. you know where's. where. Is Ron there? And she said no. When we were on our way to Tim's game he was at Town Pump, and he asked what time we'd be home and we said probably about nine. And she said then we went over to your grandma's, then we came back, and he wasn't here yet. So, I called the Town Pump and asked if he was still in the casino of course he wasn't, he was on his way home. And I said tell So I called Mandy back, and I told her to, have him call me. when he got home. So, I was in the bathtub when he called and I talked to him for a while and, he went and, he was really down about what what I told him that Tim had said to me and how I was so upset? He goes why didn't you tell him to go and wake me up. I said I did and he wouldn't do it.

MARY: Really?

ALIC: Mhm. He goes they w they were sitting around getting all fucked up, he said but, he said I went right to bed, he said I didn't get done working until after nine.

MARY: Oh, man.

ALIC: Cause that five-car pile up they had between Hardin and Crow?

MARY: Oh, shit, really? I didn't hear about it.

ALIC: Yeah. Ron was singlehandedly there. [laugh] with one wrecker.

MARY: G- yeah.

ALIC: THROAT.

MARY: Seems like any time I've seen a wrecker out here, there's always two guys in there.

ALIC: Hm-m X, [laugh] everyone was gone, when the call came in.

MARY: Oh.

ALIC: And Jay's not supposed to go on those anymore, because of his heart, so he had to send Ron by himself and Ron was slowly pulling everybody out of the ditch.

MARY: Did they all hit each other? Or just,

ALIC: Kind of. A- a semi bumped a car, and then went and went on two wheels, and, just about lost it, and then got back up on all all its wheels again.

MARY: Oh. Did it land in the ditch?

ALIC: Kind of, it was able to get out, but all the other cars that were in the direct vicinity all hit the ditch. And then, there was three cars and the semi. And then this uh this guy pulled up and, MARY: DRINK.

ALIC: he was going to uh, Peggy,

MARY: SWALLOW.

ALIC: YAWN YAWN you remember Peggy White?

MARY: Yeah.

ALIC: Her husband, Gary Bighare?

MARY: Mhm?

ALIC: Him and her pulled up, and they were in the van? And they stopped to ask Ron what happened? And here another car came and rear-ended em.

MARY: Oh.

ALIC: And they ended up having to take um Peggy White by helicopter to Billings.

MARY: Man that's pretty bad.

ALIC: I know. Darn this darn dog keeps breathing, and like dreaming you know I wonder if we should wake her up?

MARY: No she'll get scared and want to go outside. Kinda nervous you know.

ALIC: They say you can really mess up a dog, by waking em up when they're dreaming.

MARY: Really?

ALIC: Mhm. It's so cold outside but yet sometimes she insists on staying out there.

MARY: I know. You know what I was thinking of doing?

ALIC: Hunh.

MARY: I don't know she's kind of shy, but I was wondering.

ALIC: SNEEZE.

MARY: what it would be like to train her,

ALIC: SNIFF.

MARY: to pull a sled.

ALIC: I don't know if she'd do it.

MARY. I don’t know if she would either. She's kind of timid.

ALIC Mhm. She doesn't trust too many people at all.

MARY: Yeah.

ALIC: SNIFF SWALLOW Oh and you know another thing that Tim had the audacity to bitch about?

MARY: What.

ALIC: He said um, Mandy had to stay up all by herself and decorate the tree until four in the morning. And I even asked if we could put our ornaments on there and they told me that there wouldn't be enough room.

MARY: Really?

ALIC: Mhm, Tim said that.

MARY: She was probably lonely when she was doing it, you know that? She probably was.

ALIC: I sat up with her, and I was talking to her, she was doing all the decorating, I mean, what was I gonna do. She- I mean, she was just putting up the balls and everything and, she'd say where where do you think this should go and, so I was sitting there doing my Welfare application. And uh, you [laugh] know [laugh] I was just sitting there watching her, telling her where to put everything and what not.

MARY: Did you know Nickie wanted her own tree?

ALIC: Yes?

MARY: And I forgot to bring it in, it's outside?

ALIC: What are you gonna do with it?

MARY: She wants to set it up for her Barbies. I was just gonna use a tin can and put rocks in the bottom?

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: And just stick it in there. SWALLOW And you know what I did?

ALIC: Hm.

MARY: I didn't want to waste a tree's life. so I just cut a branch off one. God, I fell up there. DRINK.

ALIC: Where'd you go to get em.

MARY: You know where Sarah and Arvela live?

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: Just around the corner. Remember that first cattle guard you go over?

ALIC: Unhunh.

MARY: I didn't even go over that.

ALIC: You mean kinda like by the by the tunnel?

MARY: Right below the tunnel.

ALIC: Oh.

MARY: And I just walked up. We just walked up around uh that area in God Alice that was fun.

ALIC: Did you get grandma a tree too?

MARY: Hunh-unh.

ALIC: Does she already have one?

MARY: Hm-m. That pickup could only hold like three.

ALIC: Mm. I wonder why -- Did daddy say to take the pickup back? Or what was the deal.

MARY: Yeah. Yeah.

ALIC: Why.

MARY: Cause Phoebe needs it.

ALIC: What's wrong with the car?

MARY: Oh, you didn't hear about it?

ALIC: Hunh-unh.

MARY: Oh, you did, about how the engine was on fire?

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: See there was oil spilling out, leaking out from the valve cover.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: The valve cover gasket apparently cracked or whatever, and there was oil coming out, and the oil got hot and you know how it gets hot and smokes?

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: Well, I guess enough came out because we were losing oil bad, going from Billings to Crow um, there's a lot of

ALIC: DRINK.

MARY: smoke coming out, and by the time we got to Hardin, we had to put like uh three or four quarts in.

ALIC: Unhunh.

MARY: It was three. and by the time we got to Crow, it was, it was one quart low. And there was smoke still coming from under the engine I figure w- if it was losing that much oil, then it caught fire.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: Cause the engine was hot cause there wasn't enough water in the radiator.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: I talked to Oscar about it, and he said, well I checked, it was only, it was only about, I'd say a half a quart to a quart short of water. But that shouldn't make any difference. He goes the only thing I can think of is that there was an air lock in there.

ALIC: THROAT.

MARY: And that running the engine out on the open road?

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: Caused that air lock to come through. flushed it out.

ALIC: And bust the gasket?

MARY: No it would more or less um, the engine wasn't being kept cool enough. Cause there wasn't enough fluid in the radiator.

ALIC: DRINK U nhunh.

MARY: And, you know how the radiator's the pipe's close to other parts of the engine?

ALIC: Yeah So what

MARY: It was some part in there.

ALIC: caused the fire.

MARY: The engine being too hot, and the oil leaking.

ALIC: So he knew that the oil was leaking?

MARY: No, we knew we were losing oil but we didn't know where. I just figured it was from that valve cover gasket. Just from lifting up the hood and looking at it.

ALIC: So what's he gonna do.

MARY: Well and two of his wires the sparkplug wires?

ALIC: Unh unh.

MARY: were fried all the way through.

ALIC: Unhunh.

MARY: So we took those off and we, replaced them with some old ones out of the garage.

ALIC: I knew that.

MARY: And it runs. It runs. There's enough uh, radiator fluid in there.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: so that it will It's it's enough.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: DRINK But I think running it out on the open road, will cause it possibly to shoot more oil out.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: That valve cover gasket has to be replaced.

ALIC: Hm.

MARY: I don't know. Oh I freaked Cookie and, Rita and, Gary out tonight. Remember the Plain- Plain feather uh Claypit? where that red clay is?

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: Right there. I saw my my speedometer just go Brr. like that just down. You know, and I knew exactly what it was. What I have to do, is take off the distributor wire and splice it in with the fuel pump wire.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: Because my fuel pump is now electric, never used to be.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: Hand me that ashtray. Or your light, I mean. Your light. It's behind the sewing machine.

ALIC: THROAT.

MARY: And uh, sometimes it gets loose.

ALIC: YAWN.

MARY: And no more fuel.

ALIC: YAWN Unhunh.

MARY: So I stopped the car, and they said what are you doing. I said oh, I gotta tighten this wire here. So I had Cookie turn on the ignition and turn it off. So, cause see once you turn that key on, then you hear the, the fuel pump come on.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: And if the wire's not connected right, it doesn't come on.

ALIC: Mhm.

MARY: So I did that and I lit a match to find out where I was and, after everything was hunky-dory, then I, shut the hood, and got back in, and I started up the engine, and both Gary and Rita were sitting on the edges of their seat. SWALLOW And I turned around and I looked, and I said, did I scare you kids? They wouldn't say anything then Gary goes, yeah, I was scared. [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]. But I freaked em out, I don't know.

MODAL-EN05,SBC019

FRAN: Well with all-

MELI: Not before I graduate .

FRAN: Well they're really concerned about these proposals on the ballot for next week .

FRAN: (..) or two weeks from now or whenever it is next week I guess .

MELI: (..) Mom ?

MELI: (..) do I really have to go through and r- read this .

FRAN: SNIFF .

MELI: to make sure that I didn't leave out any of my sentences or anything .

JAN: You need to make progress .

JAN: not go back over what you've already done .

MELI: Okay because out of the eight that I've done (..) I notice on one of them I skipped two sentences ?

MELI: (.) They weren't really important but I did skip two of em ?

MELI: (.) and so now I'm paranoid that I'm gonna skip a bunch more so I have to go back and proofread .

MELI: does it matter ?

JAN: (..) Not at this point You should be making progress .

MELI: Okay .

FRAN: SNIFF .

JAN: Your ten minutes are up .

MELI: And I've proofread the whole thing .

MELI: uh .

JAN: How many pages do you have to copy ?

MELI: Excuse me .

MELI: in Just two more .

MELI: actually PAPERS that .

JAN: okay I'm gonna check on you in ten minutes if you haven't gotten one page done in ten minutes you'll go-

MELI: One side of a page ?

MELI: It takes me a long time because I've got to go over the sentences figure out (.) if I'm gonna rewrite them or leave them the same and just write them out .

JAN: Well y-

MELI: I can't write them exactly the way they are because they stink .

JAN: (.) Then you need to go downstairs and finish it .

MELI: I'm fine .

FRAN: (..) Melissa it's nine o'clock

MELI: I'm not gonna do any better downstai:rs .

FRAN: It's nine o'clock (.) in the evening .

JAN: You also have algebra to do .

MELI: I can skip algebra .

FRAN: No you can't

JAN: No

JAN: you

MELI: Alright fine

MELI: I'll do my algebra then .

JAN: No you ge- take that downstairs .

JAN: right now

FRAN: Ho- ho- honey You need to (.) be able to concentrate and get it done .

JAN: and don't argue

FRAN: You've visited with Ron and you'll also see him on the weekend .

MELI: So what

JAN: well

MELI: SNORT That was rude [@@@@@] .

RON: ⌊ (H)⌋ [(H) (Hx)]

FRAN: You know

MELI: @@@@@]SNIFF &@@@@@]SNIFF .

BRET: She knows it too she did it on purpose .

JAN: Take it downstairs .

JAN: Or (..)are you listening ?

MELI: Are you gonna add like ⌋ the little lines that jut out of these ?

FRAN: Get your pen back from that .

BRET: (.) Yeah ..

MELI: ⌊ It's ⌋ erasable and I am not marking on it .

BRET: (..) I don't care if it's erasable .

BRET: Don't touch it .

MELI: (..) I didn't

BRET: (..) I know .

BRET: (.) ⌈ don't ⌉ .

MELI: ⌊ That's ⌋ actually very good lettering sir .

BRET: I know

JAN: his is your final

MELI: Mom you gave me another ten minutes .

JAN: warning .

JAN: No I didn't .

FRAN: No no longer

JAN: I have retracted it .

MELI: TSK

JAN: You argued with me long enough I changed my mind .

MELI: (.) Okay (.) I: retract (.) all my arguing .

MELI: I totally agree .

MELI: I should go downstairs .

MELI: Now can I stay up here ?

JAN: (.) No .

RON: SNIFF

BRET: (..) Doesn't work in this household .

FRAN: (..) You may use my desk .

FRAN: (..) Well wait a minute it's a royal mess isn't it .

MELI: (..) Yes it is .

FRAN: You'll just have to carefully set things aside .

BRET: SING Sym⌈phony: ⌉ .

FRAN: And I'll go through the piles .

RON: @@@

JAN: we can go down there and si:t .

BRET: dun: da-da-dum:.

FRAN: at my earliest convenience ⌋.

BRET: da-da-da-dun dun da-da-da: .

JAN: (.) You wanna go down there and si:t ?

BRET: Dun-dun-dun-dun dun da-da- SING ...

MELI: No: .

JAN: ⌊ XXXXX ⌋ .

MELI: you ⌉ guys (.) I wanna be able to be with you .

FRAN: TSK ⌊ Did dad watch ⌋ Perot ?

BRET: So doʔ

FRAN: (.) last night ?

BRET: Unh .

BRET: BELCH .

RON: (..) I don't ⌉ think so ⌉.

FRAN: and recorded the game .

FRAN: (..) I figured he'd be interested in hearing him at least .

BRET: Excuse me:.

JAN: Well his mind's made up .

BRET: THROAT .

FRAN: Well I know that .

FRAN: but it might just be fun t- (.) to listen to him .

BRET: SINGING .

MELI: One thing is never bring up politics with my grandpa Hutch .

MELI: because (.) you'll get in a big family +...

BRET: SINGING .

MELI: argument .

JAN: Excuse me

MELI: and Mom

MELI: (.) Or no .

MELI: was it Grandpa Flynn ?

MELI: Well anyway either way

FRAN: ⌊ It is not ⌋ pleasant to talk about it with either one of em .

RON: @@@

MELI: Either way .

FRAN: believe me .

FRAN: @@@

MELI: I made some comment I made some s:tupid comment like why are you voting for them .

MELI: or something like that .

MELI: And then they went on for like an hour .

MELI: (.) or the whole dinner time .

MELI: which was probably forty-five minutes .

MELI: about .

BRET: (Hx)

MELI: the.) political views and a:ll this other stuff .

MELI: And they just talked about it on and on and on and on and on .

MELI: (..) And so Mom told me never ever to ask .

FRAN: Maybe ⌈ I'll have tea ⌉ .

MELI: ⌊ anything about that ⌋ again .

FRAN: (.) Could you grab me a box of tea .

MELI: ⌊ That was ⌋ Grandpa Flynn .

MELI: I asked him something about the Democratic Plat⌈form ⌉ .

X: .

MELI: Like what all do they believe @@@ ?

FRAN: Oh here we got this .

FRAN: I'll just use that &.

MELI: (.) Dumb question .

RON: TSK It's not pleasant to talk about politics with anyone who doesn't believe +/.

RON: (.) d- not believe but doesn't +...

MELI: (.) Agree with you .

RON: +, vote in the same way that you vote or whatever .

RON: (.)LAUGHTER

MELI: I don't ⌈ vote .

RON: It's hardly ever ⌋ pleasant .

MELI: so

FRAN: It has a real way .

RON: @@@@

FRAN: of stifling conversation and It's just like tonight at that in-service .

FRAN: (..) (..) Noble whatever her name is (.) was sitting (..) on this side .

FRAN: and she says something about +...

MELI: Angie Noble ?

FRAN: TSK Clinton .

MELI: ⌈ Angie Noble ⌉ ?

FRAN: and about

FRAN: (..) I forget what she said you know about supporting Clinton and (.) and was just kind of +/.

FRAN: (..) something about that and Donna here and there she says well I don't know she says I'm gonna vote for the other guy it's like (..) end of conversation let's just ⌈ be quiet folks .

RON: @@@@@

FRAN: I don't wanna hear any more &

FRAN: @@@@

RON: COUGH COUGH

FRAN: THROAT .

MELI: (..) Missis Noble's definitely very (..) democratic .

MELI: Mo:m (.) I':m going .

MELI: because she's pro-choice .

MELI: (.) Anywayʔ I think hat isn't &

MELI: (..) not a good reason ⌈ to base ⌉ (.) your (.) decision (..) though