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| <title> - POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS ON HAITI FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION</title> | |
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| [House Hearing, 117 Congress] | |
| [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] | |
| POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS ON HAITI FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION | |
| ======================================================================= | |
| HEARING | |
| BEFORE THE | |
| COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS | |
| HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES | |
| ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS | |
| FIRST SESSION | |
| __________ | |
| March 12, 2021 | |
| __________ | |
| Serial No. 117-11 | |
| __________ | |
| Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http:// | |
| docs.house.gov, | |
| or http://www.govinfo.gov | |
| ______ | |
| U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE | |
| 43-702 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021 | |
| COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS | |
| GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, Chairman | |
| BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking | |
| ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey Member | |
| GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey | |
| THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida STEVE CHABOT, Ohio | |
| KAREN BASS, California JOE WILSON, South Carolina | |
| WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania | |
| DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island DARRELL ISSA, California | |
| AMI BERA, California ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois | |
| JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas LEE ZELDIN, New York | |
| DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri | |
| TED LIEU, California BRIAN MAST, Florida | |
| SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania | |
| DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado | |
| ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee | |
| COLIN ALLRED, Texas MARK GREEN, Tennessee | |
| ANDY LEVIN, Michigan ANDY BARR, Kentucky | |
| ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia GREG STEUBE, Florida | |
| CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania | |
| TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York | |
| ANDY KIM, New Jersey AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas | |
| SARA JACOBS, California PETER MEIJER, Michigan | |
| KATHY MANNING, North Carolina NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York | |
| JIM COSTA, California RONNY JACKSON, Texas | |
| JUAN VARGAS, California YOUNG KIM, California | |
| VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida | |
| BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois | |
| Sophia Lafargue, Staff Director | |
| Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director | |
| C O N T E N T S | |
| ---------- | |
| Page | |
| INFORMATION FOR THE RECORD | |
| Statement of His Excellency Bocchit Edmond....................... 4 | |
| WITNESSES | |
| Douyon, Emmanuela, Policy Expert, Activist, NOU PAP DOMI......... 15 | |
| Jozef, Guerline, President, Haitian Bridge Alliance.............. 24 | |
| Auguste, Rosy, Program Director, National Network for the Defense | |
| of Human Rights (RNDDH)........................................ 34 | |
| White, Honorable Pamela W., Former U.S. Ambassador to Haiti, U.S. | |
| State Department............................................... 41 | |
| APPENDIX | |
| Hearing Notice................................................... 80 | |
| Hearing Minutes.................................................. 81 | |
| Hearing Attendance............................................... 82 | |
| STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD | |
| Statement for the record submitted from Representative Connolly.. 83 | |
| ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD | |
| Statement for the record from the Center for American Progress... 85 | |
| Article from the Miami Herald.................................... 89 | |
| Letters submitted to the Honorable Michelle Sison for the record. 91 | |
| RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD | |
| Responses to questions submitted for the record.................. 99 | |
| POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS ON HAITI FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION | |
| Friday, March 12, 2021 | |
| House of Representatives, | |
| Committee on Foreign Affairs, | |
| Washington, DC. | |
| The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m., via | |
| Webex, Hon. Gregory Meeks (Chairman of the committee) | |
| presiding. | |
| Chairman Meeks. The Committee on Foreign Affairs will come | |
| to order. | |
| Without objection, we are glad to welcome our colleague, | |
| the Chair of the House Financial Services Committee, the | |
| Honorable Representative Maxine Waters, to participate in | |
| today's hearing after our Members have had their opportunity to | |
| participate and question the witnesses. | |
| Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a | |
| recess of the committee at any time. And all Members will have | |
| 5 days to submit statements, extraneous material, and questions | |
| for the record, subject to the length limitations in the rules. | |
| To insert something into the record, please have your staff | |
| email the previously mentioned address, or contact full | |
| committee staff. | |
| As a reminder to Members, please keep your video function | |
| on at all times, even when you are not recognized by the Chair. | |
| Members are responsible for muting and unmuting themselves. And | |
| please remember to mute yourself after you finish speaking. | |
| Consistent with House rules, staff will only mute Members, as | |
| appropriate, when they are not under recognition, to eliminate | |
| background noise. | |
| I see that we have a quorum. And I now recognize myself for | |
| opening remarks. | |
| Pursuant to notice, we meet today to hear from | |
| distinguished witnesses on their policy recommendations on | |
| Haiti for the Biden Administration. | |
| It has been more than 11 years since Haiti suffered the | |
| devastating earthquake that killed hundreds of thousands, | |
| displaced more than a million people, and cost billions of | |
| dollars in damage. I am grateful that there is a continued U.S. | |
| assistance to Haiti, and I am inspired by the resilience of the | |
| Haitian people. We must sadly recognize that the situation in | |
| Haiti has continued to deteriorate in the decades since the | |
| earthquake. | |
| Moving forward, we must be frank with ourselves and with | |
| the Haitian people as we assess the strengths and the | |
| shortcomings of our assistance programs in Haiti. | |
| Today, Haiti faces a multi-pronged crisis. President Moise | |
| has ruled by decree for 14 months. Top government officials | |
| have been sanctioned by the U.S. Government for committing | |
| human rights violations. And Haitian parents are afraid to send | |
| their children to school or travel to work, not just because of | |
| the pandemic, but because kidnappings and gang violence has | |
| spiraled out of control. | |
| Under the last Administration, a U.S. foreign policy--our | |
| U.S. foreign policy turned a blind eye to matters of human | |
| rights abuses and corruption. We witnessed the Haitian | |
| Government cover up corruption allegations, tamp down on the | |
| rights of journalists, and violently break up peaceful protests | |
| with virtually zero condemnation. | |
| With the Biden Administration, America is once again | |
| willing to speak out against these actions. But there will be | |
| little time to waste. | |
| In the first year of President Biden's term Haiti is slated | |
| to hold a constitutional referendum, as well as a parliamentary | |
| and Presidential election. How the United States responds to | |
| these challenges early on will play a pivotal role in | |
| establishing buy-in and trust from Haitian civil society and | |
| the Haitian people at large. However, the solutions to the | |
| crisis in Haiti will not come from Washington, New York, or | |
| Geneva, these solutions must come from and for the Haitian | |
| people. | |
| As Members of Congress, we must listen to Haitian civil | |
| society, as well as our constituents in the Haitian diaspora. I | |
| am proud to have a vibrant Haitian community in my district of | |
| southeastern Queens, New York. And I value the perspective they | |
| share. We must work multilaterally to elevate those voices and | |
| take seriously their concerns. | |
| One concern I hear frequently is skepticism about Haiti's | |
| readiness for elections. While I would love nothing more than | |
| to see free, fair, and inclusive elections held immediately, we | |
| must listen to the outcry of Haitian voices who are telling us | |
| that elections this year will be neither free, fair, or | |
| inclusive, that the voices of civil society and the opposition | |
| continue to be shown. | |
| Instead of focusing on holding a constitutional referendum | |
| that many in Haiti and in the international community have | |
| denounced as unconstitutional, President Moise must take the | |
| initiative and begin serious dialog to discuss what a peaceful | |
| transition of power can look like. | |
| I have called on the Biden Administration to recognize that | |
| holding elections for elections' sake in Haiti will lead to the | |
| same outcome as in the 2015 election. In order to move away | |
| from the political paralysis that has gripped Haiti over the | |
| last few years, the Haitian people need to believe that their | |
| voices matter. | |
| Finally, I want to reiterate my concerns that several of my | |
| colleague, and I expressed to Secretary Mayorkas last month. It | |
| was about the continued expulsion of Haitian migrants under | |
| Title 42 of the Public Health Services Act. Last month at least | |
| 966 Haitians were deported to Haiti, the vast majority of which | |
| were Title 42 expulsions, without any authority, no screening | |
| whatsoever. Given all the challenges Haiti already faces, it is | |
| untenable for the United States to continue expelling Haitian | |
| migrants under Title 42. | |
| The problems Haiti faces are complex and are only getting | |
| more challenging. These difficulties will require a new | |
| approach from the Biden Administration, with active engagement | |
| from Congress, particularly this committee. An increased | |
| collaboration with Haitian civil society, the Haitian-American | |
| diaspora, and important regional partners like CARICOM. | |
| In my capacity as Chair of this committee, I will be | |
| working to make sure this Administration works closely with | |
| Congress to do what is the best for the people of Haiti. | |
| I look forward to hearing from our distinguished witnesses | |
| on how we can make that happen. And I want to thank Ranking | |
| Member McCaul for his partnership in addressing this important | |
| topic. | |
| Now, I will be submitting for the record a document from | |
| the Government of Haiti. And I want to be clear, this document | |
| does not reflect my views, nor my assessment of recent events. | |
| But in the interest of a full and complete hearing record with | |
| multiple views, I am submitting it for the record. | |
| [The information referred to follows:] | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| Chairman Meeks. I will now recognize the Ranking Member, | |
| Representative McCaul, for his remarks. | |
| Mr. McCaul. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for | |
| holding this hearing on a critical issue in the Western | |
| Hemisphere. | |
| Haiti is facing a political, economic, and humanitarian | |
| crisis with its current President Jovenel Moise ruling by | |
| decree for over a year. While this is legal, it complicates the | |
| situation further. Current events are like the fragility of | |
| Haiti's democracy. And, sadly, Haiti has struggled consistently | |
| with political instability, extreme poverty, corruption, and | |
| other endemic challenges since its transition from dictatorship | |
| to democracy in 1987. | |
| Haiti's progress has also been hindered by natural | |
| disasters like the 2010 earthquake, and Hurricane Matthew in | |
| 2016. Haiti remains the poorest country in the Western | |
| Hemisphere where nearly 60 percent of the population lives | |
| below the national poverty line. And as a result of the COVID | |
| pandemic, Haiti's economy has contracted by an estimated 4 | |
| percent. | |
| I am also concerned about the alarmingly high levels of | |
| crime and violence in Haiti, and reports of local gangs, human | |
| rights abuses, and systemic corruption, which are rampant. And | |
| I worry about the capacity of Haiti's justice system to fully | |
| investigate and hold criminals accountable. | |
| No matter how difficult the situation, the United States | |
| remains committed to supporting the Haitian people. Haiti is | |
| the second largest recipient of U.S. assistance in the Western | |
| Hemisphere, receiving over $180 million in Fiscal Year 2020. | |
| These funds are used primarily for emergency food aid and | |
| distribution, global health programs, education, and security | |
| assistance. | |
| U.S. assistance has also helped build the Haitian National | |
| Police into a professional security force, and we should | |
| continue to support its development. | |
| However, given the continuing challenges facing Haiti, I | |
| think it is fair to ask how effective our assistance has been | |
| and explore how our aid could achieve the desired outcome. | |
| I also want to recognize the Government of Haiti for | |
| maintaining diplomatic ties with Taiwan, and standing with the | |
| U.S. and the international community and acknowledging the | |
| fraudulent nature of the legislative elections organized by the | |
| Maduro regime in Venezuela last year. I commend them for taking | |
| these principled positions. | |
| It is important for us to pursue policies that support the | |
| Haitian people in their efforts to address serious challenges | |
| they are facing. So, I look forward to hearing from our | |
| witnesses today. | |
| And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you, Representative McCaul. | |
| I am honored to have a distinguished panel, four excellent | |
| witnesses joining us today for our hearing. | |
| Ms. Emmanuela Douyon is an economist, professor, and leader | |
| in the Nou Pap Domi social movement, a collective of young | |
| Haitians committed to fighting corruption, impunity, and social | |
| injustice. | |
| Ms. Guerline Jozef is the Co-Founder and Executive Director | |
| of the Haitian Bridge Alliance, which elevates and empowers | |
| Haitians and other Black immigrants from the Caribbean and | |
| Africa through advocacy, organizing, and social and cultural | |
| programs. | |
| Ms. Rosy Kesner Auguste serves as Program Manager of the | |
| National Human Rights Defense Network, a national institution | |
| based on Haiti that advocates for the respect of human rights, | |
| and conducts oversight of State institutions. | |
| And, finally, Ambassador Pamela A. White. She is an | |
| American diplomat who served as U.S. Ambassador to The Gambia | |
| from 2010 to 2012, and U.S. Ambassador to Haiti from 2012 to | |
| 2015. | |
| I thank you all for joining us today, and I look forward to | |
| your testimony. | |
| Witnesses will have 5 minutes to deliver your opening | |
| remarks. We will also have an interpreter for one of the | |
| witnesses. And I will make allowances for time used for | |
| interpretation. | |
| I will gently tap my gavel when you have 30 seconds left so | |
| that you may conclude your testimony. | |
| Without objection, your prepared written statement will be | |
| made part of the record. | |
| I now recognize Ms. Emmanuela Douyon for 5 minutes. | |
| STATEMENT OF EMMANUELA DOUYON, POLICY EXPERT, ACTIVIST, NOU PAP | |
| DOMI | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Chairman Meeks, Ranking Member | |
| McCaul, and Members of the committee. I want to thank you for | |
| holding this hearing during a critical moment in Haiti's | |
| history. My name is Emmanuela Douyon, and I am honored to be | |
| here on behalf of Nou Pap Domi, a collective of engaged Haitian | |
| citizens in the struggle against government corruption and | |
| impunity. | |
| Today is not the first time the U.S. Congress or this | |
| committee has held a hearing to assess U.S. policy in Haiti and | |
| gather recommendations. However, we see the present situation | |
| as fundamentally different. Today, I am hopeful that the | |
| Haitian people are on the verge of a new era, one with new | |
| actors and a clear roadmap to end old practices that perpetuate | |
| crisis after crisis and that can instead lead to the real | |
| change the Haitian people deserve. | |
| In Haiti, we are hopeful that the Administration of U.S. | |
| President Joe Biden will also break with the past and, instead, | |
| listen to the voices of civil society. | |
| In my written testimony, I describe the current crisis and | |
| provide a couple of recommendations that I summarize here. | |
| We believe that the Biden Administration and the U.S. | |
| Congress should take the following actions: | |
| The U.S. should recognize that the situation in Haiti today | |
| as a struggle by the Haitian people to take ownership of their | |
| government and build democracy, not simply a fight between | |
| politicians for power. | |
| The U.S. should not be supporting Jovenel Moise, who is a | |
| threat to Haiti's constitution and the rule of law because of | |
| his tolerance for impunity and unconstitutional and | |
| authoritarian acts, including: | |
| Preparation of a constitutional referendum in violation of | |
| the amendment process set forth in the constitution; | |
| The appointment by decree of a provisional electoral | |
| council, whose Members are not sworn in as legally required; | |
| The recent dismissal and subsequent replacement of three | |
| Supreme Court judges; | |
| Attempts to undermine the controlling power of the Court of | |
| Auditors; | |
| Absence of political will to hold accountable those | |
| involved in massacres, such as the La Saline massacre, and | |
| several killings that happened during President Moise's term, | |
| including the devastating assassination last year of the | |
| President of the Bar Association of Port-au-Prince, Monferrier | |
| Dorval. | |
| His continued effort to grab power, whatever the cost, in | |
| clear attempts to consolidate his power with no checks and | |
| balances, including the replacement of elected local officials | |
| by people accountable to him only, and unconstitutional decrees | |
| that raise serious concern. | |
| The U.S. Government must recognize that in the current | |
| context the State-sponsored gang violence and human rights | |
| abuses, increasing authoritarianism, and unconstitutional an | |
| illegal provisional electoral council, and the failure to | |
| register voters, free, fair, and credible elections cannot be | |
| safely conducted within this year. It is simply not possible. | |
| The recurrent electoral crisis and subsequent political | |
| crisis have eroded citizens' faith in their government. | |
| Rather than take sides in the constitutional dispute, it | |
| will be more helpful to listen to and offer solidarity with the | |
| Haitian people, who no longer recognize Jovenel Moise as their | |
| President. Even before his constitutional mandate ended, after | |
| years of calling on him to resign following reports from the | |
| Court of Auditors providing his involvement in the PetroCaribe | |
| corruption scandal, and because they are deeply concerned with | |
| human rights abuse. Corrupt, incompetent, and authoritarian | |
| officials should never be allowed to stay in power beyond their | |
| term in the name of democracy. | |
| The U.S. Government should recognize that past foreign-led | |
| attempts aimed to strengthen democracy in Haiti have not led to | |
| progress and often have been counterproductive. It is time to | |
| follow the lead of Haitian civil society in determining when to | |
| support elections in Haiti, and respect the current efforts to | |
| solve the crisis as they want to. | |
| Specifically, by organizing a nonpartisan, non-coerced and | |
| consensus-based team of civil society and political actors | |
| capable of ensuring the governance of the country, filling the | |
| institutional void at the head of the country since the end of | |
| President Moise's constitutional mandate on February 7, 2021, | |
| and restore democratic order. | |
| The U.S. should investigate money laundering and arms | |
| trafficking, human rights abuses, and other illegal acts by | |
| Haitian officials and private sector leaders and apply | |
| sanctions, including under the Global Magnitsky Act where | |
| applicable. | |
| It is time to send a clear signal to those who are | |
| squandering State resources with impunity, and those who | |
| continue to shed blood and violate human rights. The United | |
| States should support Haitian civil society's call for the | |
| immediate release of those arrested on February 7, 2021, and | |
| not give credence to the Government's narrative, given the lack | |
| of credible evidence of the coup attempt. | |
| To conclude, I want to state clearly that the people of | |
| Haiti are resolute in their desire for a true democracy, a | |
| democracy that works for all, and need to be able to count on | |
| the support of their friends and partners, including the U.S. | |
| Government, in this pursuit. | |
| Thank you very much. And I look forward to your questions. | |
| [The prepared statement of Ms. Douyon follows:] | |
| domi | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Guerline Jozef, you are now recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| STATEMENT OF MS. GUERLINE JOZEF, PRESIDENT, HAITIAN BRIDGE | |
| ALLIANCE | |
| Ms. Jozef. Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. | |
| My name is Guerline Jozef. I am the Co-founder and Executive | |
| Director of the Haitian Bridge Alliance. | |
| The Haitian Bridge Alliance provides direct service | |
| advocating, organizing on behalf of Black immigrants from the | |
| Caribbean entering Haiti, from the Afro-Latinx community, and | |
| our brothers and sisters from Africa. | |
| Today it is with a saddened heart that I am before you. As | |
| we are speaking, there is a flight to Haiti carrying asylum | |
| seekers who have made a dangerous journey coming to our borders | |
| to ask for asylum. Today, this morning, as we speak, over 129 | |
| people are on a flight to Haiti, including what seems to be a | |
| newborn baby just a few days old. | |
| It is unconscionable for us as a country, as a people, as | |
| this great United States of ours, to continue the cruel, | |
| inhuman practice and lack of respect to the lives of those most | |
| vulnerable. | |
| As we stand today, with all the faith, with all the hope, | |
| as we heard from my colleague Emmanuela, the situation on the | |
| ground in Haiti we understand that for too long we have been | |
| silent. The partnership between Haiti and the United States | |
| needs to be better. We understand that too many lives are at | |
| risk. We understand that this cannot continue. | |
| Haiti has not always been a migrant-sending country, but | |
| due to ongoing natural disasters, as we all know, in 2010, the | |
| earthquake that killed over 2,000--200,000 people, leaving the | |
| infrastructure of Haiti completely destroyed. Consequently, the | |
| storms and the cholera epidemic that was brought into the | |
| country by, unfortunately, health relief workers from the | |
| United Nations, sill we are dealing with those aftershocks. | |
| Today, in 2021, we still feel the aftershock of the | |
| earthquake. We see people leaving the country in search for a | |
| place to live, and search for freedom, and in search for | |
| refuge. But we, as the United States, turn our backs once again | |
| to the Haitian community. | |
| We understand that the immigration prison system as we know | |
| it today was a direct response to the Haitian refugees arriving | |
| on our shores in the 1980's. Enough is enough. Today, as we | |
| look back, what is currently happening in the country, in the | |
| middle of the uprising, in the middle of the people of Haiti | |
| once again asking, fighting for life and for justice, we cannot | |
| continue to do that. | |
| I will share one quick story with you of a woman who shared | |
| with us. She and her husband and her child, just 4 months old, | |
| was deported to Haiti 4 weeks ago. She shared with us that she | |
| was kidnapped. She was raped, barely escaped, was able to leave | |
| the country. Went to Chile in 2017. In turn, she experienced | |
| extreme racism which forced her again to leave to search for | |
| safety. | |
| Upon arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border she stayed a year- | |
| and-a-half, 18 months waiting for a chance to ask for asylum. | |
| Four weeks ago she finally mustered the courage and took | |
| the chance. What she shared with me was that upon arriving she | |
| was not even given the chance to state her case. They did not | |
| even ask her, Why are you here? What are your fears? | |
| She was immediately detained for 10 days without access to | |
| any sanitary--access to any sanitation. She was held for 10 | |
| days without access to a bathroom, to a shower, without access | |
| to a toothbrush or toothpaste, with her child, her infant, who | |
| ended up having to soil his clothes. And she was denied access | |
| to change the infant's clothes, and denied access to change her | |
| own clothes. | |
| At 4 a.m. in the morning she was awakened and told to come | |
| to get breakfast, which happened to be a bean burrito. When | |
| asked, Can I leave my child to sleep because it is too early | |
| and it is cold? they told her no. She pled with them. They told | |
| her that--these are her words--if you do not bring the baby, we | |
| will drag her out. | |
| So, these are the conditions that we see Black immigrants, | |
| including asylum seekers, specifically Haitians, being treated | |
| as they come and ask for asylum. | |
| It is clear the conditions we see---- | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Jozef [continuing]. We see these conditions for Haiti. | |
| So, we are asking, we are demanding that we protect those | |
| lives. We are demanding that we have the cease to expulsion to | |
| Haiti immediately. | |
| We are asking that the flight that left today be returned | |
| to the United States with that infant, with the students. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Jozef. We are asking for---- | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much. | |
| [The prepared statement of Ms. Jozef follows:] | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| I now recognize Ms. Auguste for 5 minutes. | |
| STATEMENT OF MS. ROSY AUGUSTE, PROGRAM DIRECTOR, NATIONAL | |
| NETWORK FOR THE DEFENSE OF HUMAN RIGHTS (RNDDH) | |
| [The following statement and answers were delivered through | |
| an interpreter.] | |
| Ms. Auguste. Chairman Meeks, Ranking Member McCaul, Members | |
| of the U.S. House of Representatives, Members of the Foreign | |
| Affairs committee, good morning. My name is Rosy Auguste | |
| Ducena. I am a lawyer and program manager for the National | |
| Network for the Defense of Human Rights. Thank you for the | |
| opportunity to share with you accurate information about the | |
| human rights violations that are taking place in Haiti. | |
| We wish to present an abbreviated version of our testimony | |
| that has already been presented to the committee and is | |
| available to anyone who is interested. | |
| Since 2017, human rights organizations have continued to | |
| denounce what is happening in Haiti. However, despite these | |
| denunciations, the U.S. administration, the OAS, the U.N. have | |
| given, always giving their unconditional support to the de | |
| facto President Jovenel Moise to the detriment of the Haitian | |
| people. | |
| Today the Republic of Haiti is ruled by one man, who has | |
| granted himself the power of the legislative and judicial | |
| branches, in addition to those of the executive branch. | |
| There are three main reasons why elections cannot be held | |
| in Haiti in 2021: | |
| First of all, the Haitian State is unable to issue the | |
| electoral cards to voters. | |
| The electoral council is illegitimate and its Members have | |
| not been sworn in by the Haitian Supreme Court, and it has an | |
| unconstitutional mandate to organize a referendum. | |
| The current insecurity will not allow candidates to | |
| campaign or voters to cast their ballot without constraint on | |
| election day. | |
| Indeed, the insecurity in the country is characterized by | |
| acts of violence against life and property. In 2020 alone, more | |
| than 1,085 people, including 37 police officers, were | |
| assassinated in Haiti. | |
| In January and February 2021, at least 65 people were | |
| murdered, including three police officers. | |
| In June 2020, the armed gangs federated with the blessing | |
| of the current government. They were influential enough to | |
| appoint a director Social assistance funds- (which is a State | |
| institution created to help disabled and people in needs). The | |
| gangs demanded and obtained the dismissal of a minister. | |
| From 2018 to 2020, at least 10 massacres were perpetrated | |
| in Port-au-Prince, resulting in the assassination of 323 | |
| people, 98 others disappeared, 38 women gang raped, 251 | |
| children became orphans. | |
| Since 2020, 4 to 5 people are kidnapped every day, among | |
| them women and girls who have generally become victims of gang | |
| rape. People victims claim they were kidnapped by uniformed | |
| police and transported in government vehicles. Others said they | |
| were handed over, ransomed to people accompanied by police | |
| officers. | |
| Influential Members of the government are negotiating and | |
| arranging the transportation of the hostages. Furthermore, the | |
| Haitian judiciary system is completely dysfunctional. The | |
| impact of this dysfunction is enormous on the prison | |
| population, more than 84 percent of whom are awaiting trial. | |
| Anti-government demonstrations are systemically repressed, | |
| while those organized by armed gangs are secured by the police. | |
| Today, despite the fact that his mandate ended on February | |
| 7, 2021, Jovenel Moise refused to leave office. Meanwhile, he | |
| controlled the country with his personal intelligence agency, | |
| the coalitions of armed gangs, a brigade created to monitor | |
| protected areas transformed into an arms villages. | |
| A specialized police unit created to provide security for | |
| the President. But now to his cause. He mobilized only a | |
| weakened and politicized police force. | |
| Based on what we have shared with you, we call on the Biden | |
| Administration to listen and respect Haitian civil society's | |
| demands, and recognize that the mandate of President--former | |
| President Jovenel Moise has ended; stop supporting an electoral | |
| process that will lead to political instability. Instead, | |
| support free and fair elections with a legitimate electoral | |
| council resulting from a political agreement. | |
| The U.S. Government must distance themselves from the | |
| process of an unconstitutional referendum. Prosecute Members of | |
| this regime involved in human rights violations, corruption, | |
| money laundering on American soil. | |
| Investigate the flow of illegal weapons from the U.S. which | |
| are easily smuggled into Haitian territory. These weapons | |
| emphasize insecurity and strike fear in the hearts of every | |
| Haitian. | |
| Thank you very much. And I look forward to your questions. | |
| [The prepared statement of Ms. Auguste follows:] | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| I now yield 5 minutes to Ambassador Pamela White. | |
| STATEMENT OF HON. PAMELA WHITE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO | |
| HAITI, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT | |
| Ms. White. Good morning. Thank you so much for having this | |
| hearing. | |
| My name is Pamela White, and I am the former U.S. | |
| Ambassador to Haiti from 2012 to 2015. I first served in Haiti | |
| from 1985 to 1990, my first tour as a foreign service officer. | |
| I witnessed the removal of Baby Doc and the subsequent horror | |
| show that went on for years after his departure. | |
| Most of my career was working for USAID from 1978 to 2010, | |
| when I became Ambassador to The Gambia. That is 30-plus years | |
| of development experience, including serving as USAID Mission | |
| Director in Mali, Tanzania, and Liberia. | |
| These are my opinions and not the USG's opinions. | |
| As you all know, the situation in Haiti is highly volatile. | |
| Every single day there are reports of decapitations, rapes, and | |
| murders. Kidnappings are at an all-time high. The human rights | |
| situation is deplorable. Four million Haitians are suffering | |
| food insecurity, more than half are living on less than $2.40 a | |
| day. There is a weak judiciary, a threatened press, and no | |
| parliament. In short, Haiti is once again a mess. | |
| With this background in mind, I will touch on two issues: | |
| the elections and aid. | |
| First the elections. It is difficult for me to imagine | |
| having successful elections this year in Haiti. Putting aside | |
| for the moment the question of President Moise should have left | |
| in February, or should he leave next February, I do not know | |
| the answer, but I do not believe that right now the necessary | |
| institutions are in place to assure a smooth transition. The | |
| USG, the OAS, and the U.N. have all stated that Moise's term | |
| ends in 2022, but several Haitian constitutional experts as | |
| well as Harvard, Yale, and NYU law school clinics disagree. | |
| The CEP was appointed last year. That CEP does not have | |
| representatives from organizations that are critical, like the | |
| church. The last CEP resigned en masse, refusing to serve under | |
| President Moise. The Supreme Court refused to swear in the | |
| current Members. I do not believe the current CEP can be | |
| considered legit. This can be quickly corrected if parties come | |
| to the table. | |
| I have been told that 2.8 million voters have been | |
| registered, but only 1.7 million cards have been issued. Over 6 | |
| million voters were registered in 2016. The current government | |
| says they have the capability to register 2 million voters a | |
| month, but they are currently falling way short. An impartial, | |
| neutral audit needs to happen yesterday. | |
| There is also the money problem. The last elections cost | |
| over $150 million dollars. I wonder how international support | |
| there will be for elections that are so tainted. I do not see | |
| the USG giving $33 million, as it did in 2016, considering the | |
| current chaos. | |
| The international community will have to draw some firm | |
| lines in the sand that will hold Haitian leadership accountable | |
| for both a smooth transition and vastly improved security. If | |
| lines are crossed, money will stop. | |
| Helen La Lime, the very talented U.N. Special | |
| Representative, said in her last report that ``above all | |
| else,'' ``above all else, a minimal consensus among relevant | |
| political stakeholders would greatly contribute to creating an | |
| environment conducive to the holding of a Constitutional | |
| referendum and subsequent elections.'' | |
| Although I think the entire question of a referendum to | |
| change the constitution is extremely dubious, I completely | |
| agree with the rest of her statement. If we do not get minimal | |
| consensus among the relevant actors, Haiti will not be able to | |
| pull off credible elections, period. | |
| Here are a few quick suggestions. | |
| If President Moise will not step down, he should step | |
| aside. He must be completely transparent and honest. He must | |
| bring relevant actors to the table. A well-respected Haitian | |
| should be appointed prime minister. He or she should | |
| immediately dissolve the current CEP and call a summit with all | |
| relevant political actors to establish a legal CEP. | |
| I would hope the U.N. and USG could both help fund such a | |
| summit and commit to acting as mediators, if asked. The voter | |
| registration also needs immediate help. | |
| The new prime minister's team will also need to articulate | |
| a security plan. If President Moise stays in power, his job | |
| will be to maintain peace. Stop the brutal beatings and the | |
| gang violence. Start acting like a Statesman. | |
| Let me quickly also touch on the topic of foreign aid. I | |
| believe Haitians desperately need humanitarian aid such as food | |
| aid and basic health care. USAID can deliver both, even under | |
| the worst political conditions. But, I do not believe that | |
| regular, normal development activity can be carried out in this | |
| current violent atmosphere. | |
| Free and fair elections are important pieces to any | |
| democracy's complex puzzle. But having an election will not | |
| transform Haiti. It never has and it never will. | |
| Thank you so much for your time. | |
| [The prepared statement of Ms. White follows:] | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you, Madam Ambassador. | |
| I want to thank all of the witnesses. Now, there are | |
| bipartisan witnesses, and all of them have basically just said | |
| Haiti's a mess. The people are suffering. This has to stop. | |
| There has got to be some order. | |
| That is the reason why we are doing this hearing. And this | |
| committee is going to continue to look so that the people of | |
| Haiti get better. They deserve better. And we have to work | |
| collectively to do that. | |
| So, now I am going to recognize Members for 5 minutes. And | |
| I just want to thank all of the witnesses for their testimony. | |
| It just breaks my heart listening. But now it is making me more | |
| determined that we have got to do something, and we have got to | |
| do it collectively. | |
| I am going to recognize Members for 5 minutes each, | |
| pursuant to the House rules. And all time yielded is for the | |
| purposes of questioning our witnesses. | |
| I will recognize Members by committee seniority, | |
| alternating between Democrats and Republicans. If you miss your | |
| turn, please let our staff know and we will come back to you. | |
| If you seek recognition, you must unmute your microphone and | |
| address the Chair verbally, and identify yourself so that we | |
| know who is speaking. | |
| I will start by recognizing myself for 5 minutes. | |
| Let me start with Ms. Douyon. You know, there is a lot of | |
| skepticism among Haiti's civil society that the Moise | |
| administration can preside over fair and credible elections. | |
| Tell me, what do you think, do you consider the current | |
| provisional electoral council to be independent, legitimate, | |
| and able to administer free, fair, and credible elections? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Meeks. | |
| I do not recognize the CEP as legitimate to organize | |
| elections. First of all, the way it was constituted. It does | |
| not reflect the constitution, and the people who are involved | |
| were not sent by key sectors of civil society in Haiti. It was | |
| not presented at the court, at the Supreme Court, like it was | |
| supposed to do. | |
| This is an illegal CEP. And there is no way this CEP could | |
| organize fair, credible elections. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| Madam Ambassador White, do you agree? | |
| Ms. White. One hundred percent. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Now, let me ask also, what role do you | |
| believe the multilateral groups, like Core Group or CARICOM, or | |
| other interested parties in the international community, should | |
| play in Haiti? | |
| And how can the United States best engage with our | |
| international partners so that we, the international, speak | |
| with one voice, not divided? No, we cannot be divided when it | |
| comes to Haiti. We have to all speak with one voice and be | |
| clear about it. | |
| Ms. White. Are you speaking to me still? | |
| Chairman Meeks. Yes. | |
| Ms. White. Absolutely, yes. Thank you, Chairman. | |
| The Core Group is essential to come together and speak with | |
| one voice. You are absolutely right. The U.S. Government has | |
| always been if not the leading voice, certainly one of the | |
| leading voices on that Core Group because no one gives more to | |
| Haiti than the United States of America, in many, many ways, | |
| not just monetarily. | |
| But I think that the leadership we need to have at that | |
| Core Group meeting, we need to have a clear view of how we are | |
| going to articulate our policy for the next 18 months at least. | |
| And I think your Chair, your leadership can help them define | |
| how to move forward. | |
| Because as I said in my statement, we need to have clear | |
| lines in the sand. If this does not happen, the money stops, we | |
| need to look at what our policies are going to be. | |
| I was,, reading about the United Nations, and the U.S., and | |
| the OAS all saying that they support means to stay for another | |
| year, but I did not hear what the conditionality for that was. | |
| And I would like to hear that articulated. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Jozef, what about this constitutional referendum? Now, | |
| I have heard that part of the constitution needs to be | |
| reformed. But what are your thoughts, should there be a | |
| referendum in June? Or should it not be? Are the people ready? | |
| Give me your thoughts on a constitutional referendum. | |
| Ms. Jozef. Chairman Meeks, as a Haitian-American woman, | |
| witnessing what is happening in the middle of this chaos, as we | |
| just heard from all those people, all those witnesses, for me | |
| the answer is no. I do not believe a referendum for the | |
| constitution right now is something that is going to make the | |
| changes that are needed. | |
| If the constitution as is is not even respected, what | |
| change will come from having a referendum in June, in less than | |
| 6 months? | |
| So, my answer is no. | |
| I think we should continue to push for a free, elected--for | |
| free assistance in Haiti at this moment. I personally do not | |
| think, you know, a referendum on the constitution in June is | |
| warranted. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| And let me real quick go back to Ms. Douyon. What about | |
| this influx of returning Haitians--I think you testified to | |
| that--of Haitian immigrants, how does that impact the Haitian | |
| economy, especially given a loss of remittances in dollars, et | |
| cetera? | |
| You know, what are some of the alternatives that you think | |
| that we should be looking at in the Biden Administration other | |
| than the deportations? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Okay. First of all, I have to mention--thank | |
| you, Chairman Meeks--I have to mention since the political | |
| crisis is getting worse, more and more people are immigrating | |
| to the U.S. illegally. And with COVID-19 and other problems we | |
| have witnessed somehow a decrease in the amount of remittances | |
| that are being sent to Haiti. At some point the checks is | |
| increased, but later it decreased. | |
| But the current economic situation in Haiti, even the same | |
| amount that the people used to send in Haiti is not enough. And | |
| with deportation, it is not going to help Haiti because those | |
| people who fled they were, like, fleeing the worsening living | |
| condition in Haiti. And sending them back in with an increase | |
| in crime levels and a surge of kidnappings, I do not think this | |
| is the best thing to do for Haiti right now. | |
| And, also, this is why it is urgent to restore peace and | |
| democratic order in Haiti so we are not dealing with this kind | |
| of situation. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| My time has expired. And I will recognize the Ranking | |
| Member McCaul from the great state of Texas. | |
| Mr. McCaul. I thank the Chairman from the great state of | |
| New York, his acknowledging me. | |
| Let me just first say I agree with the Chairman, these | |
| stories have been very compelling and, quite honestly, very | |
| sad. It is a sad state of affairs. And I think that, Mr. | |
| Chairman, thanks for holding this hearing. I think it has | |
| caught those two delighted Members that had no idea that Haiti | |
| was in such bad shape. | |
| And I think we have a responsibility to do something about | |
| it, as does the United Nations, and the OAS as well. | |
| My first question is to Ambassador White. You know, in | |
| Mexico we had the Merida Initiative where we had financial | |
| assistance tied to metrics regarding governance and rule of law | |
| to help better shape the situation. And from the testimoneys I | |
| heard, there really is no rule of law in Haiti right now. | |
| Can you tell us how we could effectuate assistance better | |
| to get the situation under control? | |
| Ms. White. Yes. Thank you so much for your question. | |
| I think we need, as I said again, however you want to call | |
| it, I call it drawing lines in the sand, but we need a very | |
| clear map of what, what we are expecting out of government, the | |
| Government in Haiti. And if we do not get the minimum that we | |
| are hoping out of the Government of Haiti, we need to have some | |
| conditionality. | |
| And I was explaining this the other day to one of my | |
| friends, and I was saying because the word ``conditionality,'' | |
| conditionality linked to aid became a very dirty word in the | |
| late 1990's and early 2000's around give them the money, it is | |
| their country, let them do what they want to do. | |
| And I always believed that United States directive that no, | |
| you have to have conditions for aid. The U.S. taxpayer expects | |
| something to come out of their hard-earned money. And we have | |
| to articulate exactly what that is. And that needs to happen. | |
| Mr. McCaul. Well, I could not agree with you more. And I | |
| think the taxpayers deserve that and want that. And, otherwise, | |
| if you pour money into a corrupt government or system, it is | |
| not going to get the results that you are looking for and then, | |
| therefore, waste the money. | |
| Let me ask you about the Haitian National Police. | |
| Previously the military seemed to control and there was a lot | |
| of corruption with the military in Haiti. And they, one of the | |
| reforms I think that has been more positive is the Haitian | |
| National Police. | |
| Do you agree with that? And should we be doing more to help | |
| them? | |
| Ms. White. Yes. When I left Haiti in 2015, let me tell you, | |
| I was very proud of the Haitian National Police. They had a | |
| good reputation. They were working with a lot of our people, | |
| from SOUTHCOM, and from different police forces in the United | |
| States. | |
| It was a great partnership. And I think that New York, yes, | |
| New York, especially New York by the way, Chairman Meeks. And I | |
| thought they were, you know, an organization that was | |
| relatively not corrupt and did a really good job with very | |
| little resources. | |
| I think we need more resources in the National Police. And | |
| I think we need more of that mentoring. I do not know if it is | |
| still ongoing, but we need more of it. Because I have heard | |
| from my many, many Haitian friends, that at least big portions | |
| of the police are becoming more and more corrupt. And that is | |
| really, really sad because they were a very decent | |
| organization. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Yes. I think we need to focus on that, too. | |
| Mr. McCaul. My last question to anybody on the panel, we, I | |
| think the selection, one of the testimoneys was that $150 | |
| million to have an election down there, OAS is involved, the | |
| United Nations, and the United States. How can we use that $150 | |
| million wisely? | |
| And I do not think the President is going to step aside | |
| until his term is done. And I know, Ambassador White, that was | |
| your first premise. But I do not think that that is going to | |
| happen. So, short of that, what do we do with the $150 million | |
| to make sure this is as free, and fair elections that we can? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Ranking Member McCaul. If you will | |
| allow, I want to answer this question. | |
| Mr. McCaul. Sure. | |
| Ms. Douyon. First of all, about the term of the President. | |
| His term ended last February 7th. And about the election, with | |
| that amount of money I think it would be better for the | |
| international community, and anyone interested in founding | |
| elections in Haiti, to wait until a fair election can happen in | |
| Haiti. | |
| At the present time there is no possibility that we can | |
| have fair, credible, inclusive elections. If anyone spends | |
| money on organizing elections now, it will only lead to another | |
| crisis because people will not be able to participate. And we | |
| have a very low turnover in the last election. Less than 30 | |
| percent of people participated in those elections | |
| And if you have elections with kidnappings and this crime | |
| level, I do not know if many people would be able to join, to | |
| campaign, to participate in those elections. And I do not know | |
| who in the civil society is going to accept the result of those | |
| elections. | |
| And even if you spend this amount of money, I do not trust | |
| the government to be able to organize elections when they | |
| cannot even manage dire shortage in the country. How could they | |
| organize elections? I do not trust them to do that. | |
| Mr. McCaul. Well, thank you, Emmanuela. I think that is the | |
| answer. I do not think we can have free and fair elections with | |
| the current President in office. Until he steps down, perhaps | |
| you should not be having an election until that time it seems | |
| to me. | |
| So, thanks for that clarification. That is I think very | |
| helpful testimony. | |
| And thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. | |
| Chairman Meeks. Thank you. | |
| I now recognize the Chair of the Subcommittee on Western | |
| Hemisphere, Civilian Security, Migration and International | |
| Economic Policy, and all the work that he has been doing on the | |
| subcommittee, particularly as it is focused on Haiti, | |
| Representative Albio Sires from New Jersey for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Sires. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am glad you are | |
| holding this as a full committee hearing because I see a lot of | |
| people are participating in this process. And people need to | |
| know what is going on in Haiti. | |
| You know, I visited Haiti a couple, a few years ago. And I | |
| met with the President. And back then he told me point blank | |
| that he wanted to revise the military. And I said to him, with | |
| the needs that you have in this country, why would you want to | |
| revise the military? | |
| I said to him, look, Costa Rica does not have an army and | |
| they are thriving. Why do you feel that Haiti has--needs an | |
| army? | |
| He said, well, it is the constitution. | |
| The other thing, we visited the National Police. They were | |
| doing a great job then. But it seems to me that this President | |
| step by step has been creating the military, get rid of judges, | |
| creating central intelligence, so he can maintain himself in | |
| power. | |
| Now, my question to the panel is, how do we stop that? | |
| Because are the Ambassadors of the country speaking up enough | |
| about it? Is the European Union speaking up about it? Are the | |
| neighboring countries speaking up about it? | |
| You know, we have invested a great deal of money in Haiti. | |
| And for this President to say that he needs a military, you | |
| know, to me was just ridiculous. | |
| So, I was wondering if somebody can take that question? | |
| Ms. White. I can. | |
| Ms. Auguste. Can I answer? | |
| Today the questions that are being raised are very | |
| important questions. First, we must acknowledge that it was a | |
| PHTK regime that unilaterally agreed to demobilize the Haitian | |
| army. | |
| We also know the former Haitian army was involved in grave | |
| human rights violations. There was nothing done to hold them | |
| accountable against the crimes committed against the Haitian | |
| population. | |
| Today we have a weakened police force because the | |
| Government has decided to support armed gangs within the | |
| country instead of providing resources to the Haitian police. | |
| The criminal gangs we have in the country have more weapons | |
| than the police forces themselves. | |
| Mr. Sires. Ambassador White, can you tell me if other | |
| Ambassadors---- | |
| Ms. Auguste. Today, when we are talking about the mandates | |
| of former President Jovenel Moise, he used the constitution to | |
| say that the mandate of parliament ended. Today, the Haitian | |
| population is using the same calculations to say that his | |
| mandate has ended. | |
| Mr. Sires. All right. Ambassador White, can you just speak | |
| to the question of have other Ambassadors spoken up about what | |
| is going on in Haiti? | |
| Ambassador White. | |
| Mr. Meeks. You are muted, Ambassador White. Please unmute. | |
| Ms. White. Sorry. Yes, they have certainly spoken out | |
| against about all the violence. They have spoken out about | |
| human rights abuses. What I am not sure about is, you know, | |
| what are the consequences? You know, you can say, well, you | |
| know, this is horrible and the situation is horrible and | |
| Haiti's a mess, but what exactly do we do about it? So I have | |
| not seen that articulated and it might have been articulated, I | |
| have not personally seen it. | |
| And just, if you will, this question of the army came up | |
| when I was Ambassador there, and they kept saying, we want an | |
| army, we want an army, and I kept saying, why would you want an | |
| army? It just seems ridiculous. | |
| Mr. Sires. Exactly. Well, thank you very much, Chairman. I | |
| am finished. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Meeks. The gentleman yields back. And now I recognize | |
| the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Africa, Global | |
| Health, and Global Human Rights, Representative Chris Smith of | |
| New Jersey, for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you | |
| for convening this important hearing. You and the Ranking | |
| Member, and Albio Sires, Chairman, have asked a lot of the | |
| important questions about the political leadership. I would | |
| like to just focus for a moment with our distinguished | |
| witnesses. We all remember in 2010 when 200,000 people died | |
| from the earthquake and 10 months later, there was a horrible | |
| outbreak of cholera. And for about a century, Haiti had not | |
| known cholera. | |
| And after a great deal of investigation, Ban Ki-moon | |
| finally came to the conclusion from an expert panel that it was | |
| brought to Haiti by the peacekeepers from Nepal. It was a | |
| strain that was found in Nepal and their camp was so, | |
| unfortunately, unsanitary, their waste led to contaminated | |
| water and about 800-plus thousand people got sick, 10,000 | |
| Haitians died--and there were commitments made. | |
| I know CDC worked very hard on this as did our U.S. | |
| Government State Department and USAID, to make sure that | |
| sanitation was improved. But I wonder, just as a snapshot, has | |
| it been improved to the point where there is robust sanitary | |
| conditions in Haiti as a result of lessons learned so that | |
| there is never again waterborne illnesses like the cholera that | |
| was taken to so many people? | |
| Second, there was talk of reparations and was even a | |
| lawsuit, sadly, that was dismissed by a Federal judge about | |
| reparations because this had a causation and it was U.N. | |
| peacekeepers, and I am wondering if anyone would like to speak | |
| to that issue. And, finally, on human trafficking, Mr. | |
| Chairman, Haiti is a tier 2 country as per the last report by | |
| TIP, trafficking in persons, but there is a very, very ongoing | |
| serious problem of children being put into forced labor, | |
| domestic servitude. | |
| In 2014, Haiti passed a law, and I know the Ambassador | |
| knows about that, on TIP. Enforcement has been lackluster to | |
| say the least. There were no prosecutions during the reporting | |
| period to the last TIP Report, the 2020 report, and I am just | |
| wondering if our distinguished witnesses could shed light on | |
| the status of victims and the prosecutions of traffickers and | |
| the prevention strategies in Haiti. | |
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield to the answers. | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congressman Smith. I do not have | |
| enough data to comment on improvement in general sanitation | |
| but, and number of instances of human trafficking, but what I | |
| can say is that there is no real prosecution of criminal in | |
| Haiti at this time. There is a lot of impunity and even people | |
| who are involved in massacres are not pursued. They do not face | |
| charge and are not held accountable, so I will not even mention | |
| for all the cases. | |
| And this is directly linked to corruption, rampant | |
| corruption and impunity in Haiti. The overall situation is that | |
| if we want to tackle some specific problem like human | |
| trafficking and even bad living condition, it has a lot to see | |
| with leadership and the governance of the country. And for the | |
| past 4 years, Haiti has been in a crisis of leadership with a | |
| President that himself is accused of being involved in | |
| corruption. Therefore, there is little chance that we could see | |
| any improvement in term of prosecution against people involved | |
| in human trafficking or any other type of crime. | |
| Mr. Smith. Thank you. Anybody else like to respond? | |
| Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much. This is Guerline, Congressman | |
| Smith. The reality is, as we know in Haiti when we speak of the | |
| cholera, when we see what has happened, nothing has been done. | |
| No reparation has been provided for those in impacted community | |
| Members. It is unacceptable to see how not only, you know, what | |
| we call the corruption in Haiti, but the way that the | |
| international community always deals with issues in Haiti | |
| whether it is things that are happening on the ground for that | |
| the chaos, or even things such we see the United Nations, you | |
| know, worker, unfortunately, with cholera due to lack of | |
| sanitation, due to lack of infrastructure, to make sure that | |
| the people that we are serving are protected. | |
| So this is a clear example of how negative the entire | |
| international community including as we can see the U.N. treats | |
| Haiti when it comes to those types of issues. | |
| Mr. Smith. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. Hold it. The | |
| gentleman's time has expired. I now recognize Representative | |
| Brad Sherman of California for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Sherman. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for holding | |
| this hearing. Haiti and the United States have a long | |
| relationship. It is, after all, our first sister republic here | |
| in the Western Hemisphere. Unfortunately, Haiti is one of the | |
| poorest nations of the Western Hemisphere. | |
| Haiti has only 14,000 to 15,000 police in its Haitian | |
| National Police which is less than international standards | |
| would call for the policing of such a populated country. | |
| Between 2008 and 2019, there were 3,200 Indian policemen who | |
| were there as part of the U.N. And then our colleague Chris | |
| Smith points out how U.N. peacekeepers from Nepal were a | |
| problem for Haiti. | |
| So I will ask first, Ms. Douyon, would international | |
| peacekeepers or international police assistance be helpful in | |
| providing for the rule of law in Haiti? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congressman Sherman. Of course, help | |
| is always welcome, but I would say that we need to focus more | |
| on improving the capacity of the Haitian National Police. | |
| Because what I notice, is that every time we have foreigners | |
| coming, helping, when they leave, the local stuff is not better | |
| off. We do not see any real improvement. It is like they come | |
| here, do the job, but they do not really reinforce the capacity | |
| of the police. | |
| And at this time, the Haitian National Police is suffering | |
| from bad reputation and some policemen are denouncing bad | |
| working condition. They need increase in their salary. They | |
| need the health care. They need a better environment to work | |
| and we need even more police officer. So if I recommend | |
| something or recommend that we work on the Haitian National | |
| Police and show that every police officer can take care of his | |
| family and they can get perfect training instead of bringing | |
| more police officer from anywhere. | |
| Mr. Sherman. The written reports say that there have been | |
| 251 COVID deaths in Haiti. That seems like a very low number. | |
| Ms. White, should I believe that number or is it dramatically | |
| understated? | |
| Ms. White. Well, yes. I think--I do think you should | |
| believe the number. Now I cannot quite figure it out myself | |
| because there is at least eight or nine times that many of | |
| COVID deaths right across the border in the DR. And as we all | |
| know Haiti does not have exactly the most efficient healthcare | |
| system in the world. But for whatever reason, a very, very | |
| trusted doctor from, you know, that has ties to Cornell that is | |
| a Haitian doctor, has confirmed to me that the number of COVID | |
| deaths have been relatively low. And, you know, this is true in | |
| Africa too. | |
| Mr. Sherman. While I have you, I have one more question | |
| that is Haiti is one of the 15 nations to recognize Taiwan. We | |
| have the Beijing offering free assistance, concessionary loans. | |
| Is Haiti better off sticking with Taiwan, and should we be | |
| concerned with China trying to develop a relationship with the | |
| Government of Haiti? | |
| Ms. White. Is this for me again? | |
| Mr. Sherman. Yes. | |
| Ms. White. I do not know the extent of what the Chinese is | |
| doing in Haiti anymore, to tell you the honest to God truth, so | |
| I cannot really comment on that. But I have the Chinese slowly | |
| creeping in all across Africa and Haiti, and I personally do | |
| not think this is a good thing. | |
| Mr. Sherman. They have sent hundreds of thousands of face | |
| masks, thousands of tons of rice. That is to say Taiwan has to, | |
| well, I guess there is only 15 nations with who they have a | |
| relationship. | |
| But then, finally, for whichever witness--oh, I have only | |
| 29 seconds. That is not enough time for anybody to answer a | |
| question. I yield back. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. I now | |
| recognize the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Asia, the | |
| Pacific, Central Asia, and Nonproliferation, Representative | |
| Steve Chabot of Ohio, for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Chabot. Mr. Chairman? | |
| Mr. Meeks. Yes. | |
| Mr. Chabot. I am not sure if you can hear me. My screen | |
| just went--froze. | |
| Mr. Meeks. I hear you, Mr. Chabot. I do hear you. We hear | |
| you. | |
| Mr. Chabot. That was not a very judicious time for this | |
| thing to freeze. I am not sure if anybody can hear me or not. | |
| Mr. Meeks. We hear you, Mr. Chabot. | |
| Mr. Chabot. I am just frozen here. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Okay. | |
| Mr. Chabot. Well. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Mr. Chabot, can you hear me? | |
| Mr. Chabot. Maybe we can come back to me, because I assume | |
| you are probably not hearing me. | |
| Mr. Meeks. We will come back to Mr. Chabot. So I will go | |
| right now to Representative Brian Mast of Florida. You are now | |
| recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Mast. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for recognizing me, and | |
| thank you to our witnesses for participating today as well. My | |
| question goes to this, and it is open to any of our witnesses. | |
| It is a general question for you and---- | |
| Mr. Sherman. I yielded back 29 seconds. I have never done | |
| that before. Really. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Mr. Sherman, put yourself on mute, please. | |
| Mr. Mast. I think he muted. I think we are--it was just a | |
| quick error. We will get over that one. | |
| My question goes to our witnesses, generally, and I would | |
| ask for reflection for America and overcoming our challenges | |
| with the inception of our Nation and the founding of our | |
| independence and creating of our democratic systems that we | |
| rely on here, and what it is that individuals, just off my | |
| shore as a Floridian, see that draw to come to here in the | |
| United States of America, which I have a large Haitian | |
| community as well within my area of south Florida. | |
| What do you think can be learned and brought back to Haiti | |
| to help replicate what it is that is drawing people here to our | |
| shores? | |
| Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much, Congressman Mast. This is | |
| Guerline. I would like to take part of the question. First of | |
| all, you know, we always talk about Haiti being the poorest | |
| country in the Western Hemisphere, but we always fail to look | |
| at the root causes of that fact going back 200 years, within | |
| the relationships, and the fact that from the very inception of | |
| Haiti, France forced with the international powers to Haiti to | |
| pay, because we freed ourselves, to pay France for lost wages | |
| of slavery that was created on our backs. So these are the very | |
| root causes of Haiti being in the state that it is. | |
| So we see from there, the continued, you know, in action, | |
| misaction, and straight-out abuse of Haiti, in Haiti, on Haiti, | |
| and we see that people leaving. As I previously mentioned, | |
| Haiti was not a sending country. Haiti was a receiving country, | |
| lighting the way for freedom not only for Haiti but other | |
| places. Haiti was the only country that provided citizenship | |
| for the Jews to escape so that they can get freedom. | |
| So when we come back to what we experienced earlier this | |
| year in this great United States of ours, and I must say that I | |
| am both a proud Haitian woman and a proud American woman, so | |
| there is a lot to be learned. There is a lot that can be used | |
| to provide assistance and provide relief in Haiti. I believe | |
| we---- | |
| Mr. Mast. Thank you for your response, ma'am. I just want | |
| to pause you and ask you to continue, what is that piece to be | |
| learned? That is what I want to get at. What is that piece to | |
| be learned that you just said there is a lot to be learned? | |
| What is that that needs to be brought back to Haiti to result | |
| in success? | |
| Ms. Jozef. Not to be brought back in Haiti, per se, but to | |
| work with Haiti to be able to create a sustainable, you know, | |
| solution. When we look into what we have, we are experiencing | |
| here in the United States, how do we work with the Haitian | |
| people to implement those things that can be successful so that | |
| themselves can be able to live for themselves. | |
| Mr. Mast. Very important point. I want us to work with the | |
| Haitian people and I think we do do that very well. And there | |
| is definitely room for improvement, but I know as a Floridian | |
| this is something that touches us very close to home. I would | |
| never, however, say that it is not more important, or rather | |
| that--that it isn't more important that Haitians individually | |
| within Haiti look in the mirror and say we cannot rely on | |
| America, we cannot rely on France, we cannot rely on others. We | |
| are hopeful for their assistance, but we have to look in the | |
| mirror and say, how do we do this? | |
| And that is what I hope we can really get to a root of is | |
| what does Haiti have to look in the mirror and decide is going | |
| to occur there, whether they get the assistance from the U.S. | |
| or anybody else. What is it that they can look in the mirror | |
| and do to correct what is missing there? | |
| And in that, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the time. And I | |
| have nothing to yield back, but thank you for the time. | |
| Ms. Douyon. Can I add something? Can I reply to that? | |
| Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. The | |
| gentleman's time has expired. | |
| Mr. Mast. The Chairman allows you. | |
| Mr. Meeks. No, no. I cannot. We have a lot of Members | |
| waiting to ask questions. | |
| Ms. Douyon. Because this is so important. | |
| Mr. Meeks. We will get to it. I will get it when someone | |
| asks you the question next, maybe Mr. Connolly or someone else. | |
| But I have got to yield the time now to the President of the | |
| NATO Parliamentary Assembly, Representative Gerry Connolly of | |
| the state of Virginia, for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our | |
| panel. You know, part of this discussion, it seems to me, we | |
| have sort of ignored the America historical context with | |
| respect to Haiti. And, Ms. Douyon, you may want to comment on | |
| that as well as Ambassador White. You know, the American | |
| history with Haiti is wretched. | |
| After brutal French colonialism was overturned, we refused | |
| to recognize a black, formerly enslaved government in Haiti | |
| because it threatened slavery in America in the 19th century. | |
| We refused commerce. We denied them access to trade and | |
| investment, credits, and helped to impoverish the country and | |
| keep it impoverished. We have invaded the country. We have | |
| occupied the country. And we have installed governments and | |
| taken down governments, and reinstalled governments. | |
| And maybe I can start with you, Ambassador White, because | |
| surely you are aware of that historical perspective. But it is | |
| not like we--the current condition of Haiti is intrinsically | |
| dysfunctional. There are historic reasons why it is in the | |
| condition it is in, and a lot of it can be traced to American | |
| policy and intervention, very little of it good over the | |
| panoply of history. | |
| So given that, shouldn't we tread a little lightly on | |
| things like conditionality and dictating terms of what Haiti | |
| needs to do and how best can the United States try to influence | |
| positive and desirable outcomes in terms of democracy, in terms | |
| of lifting people out of poverty, in terms of trying to promote | |
| a more robust, economic growth that benefits everybody? | |
| Ambassador White and then Ms. Douyon. | |
| Ms. White. Yes, it is too bad we just do not have three or | |
| 4 hours for discussion because it is a long one, but you are | |
| right. The history between the United States and Haiti is a | |
| love-hate affair and has been for a long time. I distinctly | |
| remember like I was saying, in 1986, when Bebe Dok left and I | |
| remember sitting in the embassy and the Ambassador Adams, who | |
| was a fabulous Ambassador, but he said we are going to have | |
| elections. | |
| And I remember saying, ``Elections? There is no political | |
| party. There is no judiciary. There is no police except the | |
| Tonton Macoute. How in the heck are we going to have | |
| elections?'' ``That is what we do for a democracy.'' And I | |
| think, you know, elections ever since have been, you know, | |
| difficult. | |
| But we--I know this idea of conditionality is one that | |
| raises eyebrows, but I do think that if we are not saying | |
| clearly what it is we are expecting of the Government of Haiti, | |
| then we do not have a road map and we definitely need a road | |
| map. Now we might be doing that. I am not in on any | |
| discussions. I am not part of the core group. No one calls me | |
| from Haiti--well, my Haitian friends, but not my American | |
| friends, for advice. | |
| So I do not know. We may be doing more of that. But they | |
| deserve to know, you know, what they are getting for their | |
| money. | |
| Mr. Connolly. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Douyon, I know you wanted to respond to both Mr. Mast | |
| and hopefully my observation as well. | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congressman Connolly. I totally | |
| agreed with the fact you shared about the history between U.S. | |
| and Haiti, and it is true that it has been complicated. And to | |
| reply to Congressman Mast comment, Haiti is not waiting for the | |
| U.S., France, or any other country in the international | |
| community. We have already decided what we want to do. | |
| What we are asking is for the international community to | |
| listen and respect our choice. We have a President whose term | |
| ended last February. He has benefited from the support of OAS, | |
| the U.S. State Department, and despite the fact that most of | |
| Haiti's civil society acknowledges that his term ended | |
| according to the Constitution, this is what we are facing now. | |
| And this is a perfect example of when we do not listen to | |
| Haitians, we cannot judge them later and blame them for the | |
| outcome. And it is also important to differentiate between the | |
| people who always stand for the country and most of the elected | |
| officials who are usually corrupt and are minding their own | |
| business and are defending their own interests, usually with | |
| the support of the international community who is always saying | |
| that they are supporting institutions, why they are supporting | |
| people, people who are often decried by their own population. | |
| This is the perfect case study with Joyenel Moise. But for | |
| more than 2 years, people have been calling on him to resign. | |
| Now we are not even calling on him to resign because his term | |
| ended, we call him to vacate office. And he has the support of | |
| the international community. We want to end with all those, the | |
| corruption and impunity. We want to end with the old practices | |
| and so many people do not want to give this chance to decide | |
| for ourselves. | |
| And this is why we are saying, we are having this hearing | |
| now. This is our point. This is what we are defending, the | |
| right to decide for ourselves and for the international | |
| community to listen and follow the Haitian civil society lead, | |
| because we know better. We know what is good for us. We know | |
| where we made mistakes in the past. We are learning from this. | |
| And it is trial and error. It is a young democracy. We are | |
| learning and we are adjusting, and now is the turning point and | |
| this is why we need solidarity, not the kind of comment like | |
| this---- | |
| Mr. Connolly. Thank you for that. | |
| Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time---- | |
| Mr. Connolly. I yield back. | |
| Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. I think we are | |
| still working to get Mr. Chabot on camera, so while we continue | |
| to do that I will now recognize the Ranking Member of the | |
| Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, | |
| Migration, and International Economy Policy, Representative | |
| Mark Green of Tennessee, for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Green. Thank you, Chairman Meeks and Ranking Member | |
| McCaul, for holding this hearing on Haiti. It is an honor to | |
| serve as the Ranking Member on Western Hemisphere, and, | |
| obviously, this focus on Haiti is a critical aspect of our | |
| subcommittee. I thank Chairman Sires for his comments as well, | |
| his wisdom and experience. | |
| When I founded my medical foundation, Align MD Foundation | |
| and then Two Rivers Medical Foundation, we sent medical | |
| missions, trips to Haiti. And the country was then challenged | |
| with poverty, rule of law issues, and governance issues and, | |
| unfortunately, the situation is only worse now. It is tragic | |
| for many reasons. History makes it even more so. | |
| Their first, you know, Haiti's first Constitution was | |
| influenced by our own Alexander Hamilton who grew up in the | |
| Caribbean himself. Unfortunately, pervasive corruption and | |
| desperate poverty have long played the country. It remains one | |
| of the poorest nations in the Caribbean, lagging far behind its | |
| neighbors in basic measures of economic and political well- | |
| being. The Haitian people need and deserve better. As a | |
| neighbor, friend, and partner, we should do what we can. | |
| But as we have all noted today, it is sadly an uphill | |
| battle. The turmoil and instability, including the recent | |
| prison break, underscore the absence of the rule of law. Haiti | |
| ranks toward the bottom of many international comparisons for | |
| transparency, economic development, and ease of doing business. | |
| Sadly, recent events have shown us that Haiti still has a long | |
| way to go. | |
| My questions today are really for anyone who wants to chime | |
| in. We are hearing that the prisons in Haiti are now at 384 | |
| percent capacity and my first thought is that some of these | |
| arrests may very well be politically motivated, but also are | |
| seeing large increases in violent crime. Can you share with us, | |
| any one of the witnesses, about the state of criminal justice | |
| in Haiti and what portion of those criminals are actually | |
| criminals versus political prisoners, and also, you know, the | |
| status of prisons? They are so full, you know, how is that | |
| impacting criminal justice? | |
| Ms. Auguste. Thank you very much, Congressman Mark Green. | |
| We want to take your questions regarding the prison system in | |
| Haiti. The people who are incarcerated are living an inhumane | |
| condition. The current prison that we have can hold about 3,000 | |
| people and today we have 12,000 people incarcerated, so then | |
| you can just imagine the deplorable condition that these | |
| inmates are in. | |
| And also given the dysfunction of the judicial system, | |
| there is a lot of violations of the rights of those inmates | |
| that are occurring on a regular basis. Like I said earlier, 84 | |
| percent of the incarcerated populations are awaiting trial. | |
| There are people in there who have been incarcerated for 10 | |
| years and have not seen a judge. The worst thing for us today | |
| is that yes, indeed, we have political prisoners. They are | |
| people who are incarcerated because of their political belief | |
| and their stand against this government. | |
| So think about someone who spent 10 years in prison without | |
| appearing before a judge and now individuals will also be | |
| incarcerated for their political belief what that situation is | |
| like. It is worsening daily. Unfortunately, no matter what | |
| promises the government has made, they have done nothing to | |
| resolve the issue of prolonged detentions for those inmates. | |
| Thank you. | |
| Mr. Green. If I could, I would also like to ask the | |
| Ambassador if she might share a little bit of her perspective | |
| on the spillover effects of what is going on in Haiti, how it | |
| is spilling over in the region and the rest of the Caribbean | |
| and, particularly, neighboring Dominican Republic. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Ambassador White, please turn on your camera and | |
| off mute. | |
| Ambassador White, still with us? | |
| Ms. White. Can you hear me now? | |
| Mr. Meeks. Yes, I hear you now. | |
| Ms. White. Okay, sorry. I have like three devices going | |
| here and they are all running out of power. Let me just go over | |
| here. | |
| Yes, there is always spillover in the region. I mean the | |
| DR, you know, has a booming economy and the Haitians are going | |
| back and forth over the border every day. And what is worrying | |
| me more and would worry me if I was still the Ambassador there, | |
| is the amount of the huge increase in Haitians trying to get to | |
| the United States. | |
| And, you know, they use, you know, means to get there. They | |
| are highly dangerous, you know, they die all the time. And we, | |
| you know, the only way to stop immigration whether it is from | |
| Haiti or Guatemala or wherever, Mexico, is to create better | |
| conditions in the country so they do not want to leave. And so | |
| the violence that is going on in Haiti right now, the lack of | |
| rule of law, the lack of human rights, is driving Haitians out | |
| of the country to almost anywhere else they can do to get any | |
| kind of opportunity for their families. | |
| And then in my statement, I said it is very hard to do | |
| regular development activities in the midst of a violent | |
| country so, you know, just one feeds off the other, and that is | |
| why it is just so critical that the human rights situation, the | |
| violence, the gangs, that situation has got to be looked at | |
| immediately because I do not think you can do anything else | |
| until you stop that. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you. | |
| Ms. White. Including elections. | |
| Mr. Green. My time has expired. Thank you, Chairman. | |
| Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. I now | |
| recognize the Chair of the Subcommittee on Africa, Global | |
| Health, and Global Human Rights, Representative Karen Bass from | |
| California, for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Bass. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. I actually want to | |
| continue right with the Ambassador right where she was going, | |
| because I understood what you said in terms of the gangs and | |
| all of that. The question is what should we do? I know that we | |
| have mentioned the police, but it is my understanding that the | |
| people we have trained, be it the police or the military, they | |
| are the ones that shot live rounds into the protesters, and it | |
| is questionable as to whether or not they were colluding with | |
| the government. So the question to you is, what can we do as | |
| the United States? | |
| And then when you were Ambassador, I know that you | |
| facilitated a number of rounds of negotiations between | |
| conflicting parties, and I want to know based on your time | |
| there, what lessons learned? What could you have done to have | |
| prevented what you saw at the time and what should we be doing | |
| now? | |
| Now are you able--can you hear me? Yes, okay. Go ahead. | |
| I do not want to lose my time with her technical problems. | |
| Can we---- | |
| Ms. White. Sorry. I have got like three going. They are all | |
| ready, they just keep---- | |
| Mr. Meeks. Your time is held until such time---- | |
| Ms. Bass. Thank you. Thank you. | |
| Ms. White. I can hear you. Can you hear me? | |
| Ms. White. Yes. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Now we can hear you. | |
| Ms. White. Do you want me to talk really fast? | |
| Mr. Meeks. Yes, go now. | |
| Ms. White. Okay, go. So I, yes, I had lots and lots of | |
| meetings with the opposition even to the point of getting | |
| attacked by mobs, I remember. If you are not bringing the | |
| opposition to the negotiating table then you cannot make | |
| progress. And I have no idea. I presume that they are doing | |
| that all the time. You know, you have got to get out of your | |
| office into their offices and open up the dialog. I just assume | |
| that is being done, I do not know. | |
| And it is a good question about the police. That I think | |
| that we need--we cannot give up on the police. We have invested | |
| millions of dollars in the police. They can be reinforced. They | |
| can be--when I--they were in a very good position. We have got | |
| to get---- | |
| Ms. Bass. Well, you know, I realize we have invested a lot | |
| of money, but if our investment results in shooting innocent | |
| people and colluding with the existing government that does not | |
| sound like a good return on investment to me, so I am just | |
| wondering if you have a thought. I have a couple of other | |
| questions for our other witnesses, but if you have a thought as | |
| to what we can do differently. | |
| What did you learn during that time what can we do | |
| differently? I do not want to reinforce an abusive police | |
| force. | |
| Ms. White. Yes, right. Right. Yes, yes. Got you. | |
| Well, like I said, we have got to root out, tell them to | |
| root out the bad actors. I mean you are right. They have been | |
| seen shooting into, you know, into crowds. Root out the bad | |
| actors. We did that before. We did that. There were bad actors | |
| when I was there too. And we had this fabulous New York | |
| policeman that would come down and they would do audits. They | |
| would do interviews. They would do training. And I just think | |
| we have to go back to that. | |
| Ms. Bass. All right. Thank you, Madam Ambassador. | |
| Let me move on to Ms. Douyon. And, you know, one, it is | |
| clear we do not need to have a referendum for the Constitution, | |
| the elections are going to be shaky, so the question is what | |
| should we do? Not change the Constitution, postpone the | |
| elections, what is it? And I also believe very deeply that we | |
| need to address root causes. But for right now, if no election, | |
| then what? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Bass. First of all, | |
| what you can do is cancel the CEP. Recommend. It is not up to | |
| you to cancel it. You have to recommend. | |
| Ms. Bass. Cancel what? | |
| Ms. Douyon. I said that you have to cancel the CEP, but I | |
| correct my language and I said, it is not up to you to cancel | |
| it, it is to not support Joyenel Moise with that CEP. The CEP | |
| is electoral council. We do not, we cannot continue with an | |
| illegal electoral council. We cannot have a referendum that is | |
| illegal and we have to listen to civil society. | |
| And the solution now is, since the term of the President | |
| ended last month, we have to consider the nonpartisan | |
| consensus-based team that is capable of leading the country on | |
| a nice fair election, restore peace, improve on---- | |
| Ms. Bass. Do you have respected leaders that if the | |
| President was called on to step aside are their respectable, | |
| unifying leaders that we could call for should be a part of | |
| that team that you just mentioned? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Of course, it would be a disaster if there were | |
| no qualified, serious, and noncorrupt Haitians capable of | |
| leading our country. | |
| Ms. Bass [continuing]. Qualified people, the question is-- | |
| -- | |
| Ms. Douyon. Serious and noncorrupt people, yes. They exist. | |
| People like this exist. There are many people like this. And | |
| actually there is a consensus among civil society that we can | |
| have such team, all we need to do is to have Joyenel Moise to | |
| vacate and---- | |
| Ms. Bass. Can you tell us--my time has run out, but can you | |
| tell us who those people are, what the team would be? And you | |
| do not have to answer right this second, but can you send it to | |
| us? | |
| Ms. Douyon. I cannot name anyone because of the current | |
| situation in Haiti. I am afraid if I identify them now they | |
| might be arrested. | |
| Ms. Bass. All right. | |
| Ms. Douyon. Just like the judges. | |
| Mr. Meeks. The gentlelady's time has expired. The | |
| gentlelady's time has expired. I now recognize Representative | |
| Andy Barr from Kentucky for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Barr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I really appreciate | |
| your leadership on this issue in bringing this issue to the | |
| attention of our committee. It is such an important issue. | |
| And I represent in central Kentucky a faith community that | |
| has invested considerable time and resources in mission trips | |
| to Haiti. They bring back beautiful stories of a wonderful | |
| people, yes, impoverished people, people who are struggling, | |
| but wonderful people who deserve better. And so many churches | |
| around this country have sponsored mission trips similar to | |
| those of my constituents and we want the best for the people of | |
| Haiti. And the very regrettable track record of human rights | |
| violations and violence and corruption is obviously something | |
| we are all interested in. | |
| But let me start by asking Ambassador White kind of a | |
| fundamental question which is, aside from the obvious | |
| humanitarian interest that we have in improving the conditions | |
| in Haiti, what would you say is, if any, the strategic national | |
| security interest of the United States in that country and is | |
| it the historic connection between Haiti and Taiwan and | |
| potentially countering a Chinese Communist Party Belt and Road | |
| initiative in Haiti? | |
| Ms. White. Well, that is a real possibility. But I think | |
| more, you know, more to the point is that if we do not develop | |
| Haitians and give Haitians a decent quality of living, | |
| including giving them something to do, you know, employment and | |
| basic health care and human rights, that we are going to find | |
| them on our doors in huge numbers and we just are not able to | |
| do that. | |
| Mr. Barr. Let me ask you a question about the comment that | |
| you made, I would really appreciate it, Ambassador, about | |
| conditionality with foreign aid. And Mr. Connolly's recitation | |
| of American history with respect to Haiti, you know, the | |
| American people, American taxpayers, not just in terms of these | |
| mission trips, but the taxpayers deserve substantial credit and | |
| generosity here. | |
| You know, what I am reading is just since the earthquake | |
| alone, the United States taxpayer has invested $5.1 billion, | |
| and since 2011, USAID, $1.8 billion, a hundred million in 2020 | |
| alone. I would just argue and, Ambassador, I invite your | |
| feedback, if U.S. foreign aid was the answer to Haiti's many | |
| problems, then those problems would have been solved a long | |
| time ago. | |
| I mean there absolutely no shortage of American and | |
| international funding here. It has just been so badly | |
| mismanaged and subject to corruption. And so, please, amplify | |
| your testimony about the critical importance of conditionality | |
| associated with any additional taxpayer investment in Haiti in | |
| terms of anticorruption efforts. | |
| Ms. White. Yes, people usually ask about this. And I must | |
| say that after the earthquake, we had about two billion dollars | |
| after the earthquake. It killed 300,000 people. I mean | |
| everything was gone. The port and the roads were gone. The | |
| airport was gone. And I mean that people kept saying, ``But you | |
| had two billion dollars.'' And I said, ``I needed 20 billion to | |
| rebuild the Nation after an earthquake of that size.'' | |
| So though it looks like a tremendous amount of money, it | |
| is, you know, to rebuild from nothing, believe me, we did a | |
| fantastic job. We did get Haiti together again. Fifty percent | |
| of Americans, they emptied out their pockets to help make that | |
| happen. And by the way, the NGO's and the religious groups get | |
| a bad name in Haiti, but thank God for the religious NGO's who | |
| are doing a fabulous job down there---- | |
| Mr. Barr. And reclaiming my time, I do not have much time | |
| left, Ambassador White, but I do want to followup on | |
| Representative Sherman's important question about Taiwan. Are | |
| we seeing an active Belt and Road initiative from the Chinese | |
| and post-pandemic, a Chinese malign influence in the Caribbean | |
| impacting Haiti in a way that would, you know, separate Haiti | |
| as an ally of Taiwan, and as one of only 15 countries | |
| maintaining official recognition with Taiwan? Is there any | |
| information you can give us on that? | |
| Ms. White. I am sorry, but there really isn't. I do not | |
| know what Taiwan is up to. I do not. | |
| Mr. Barr. Okay. All right. Well, thank you again, Mr. | |
| Chairman, for the hearing. It is very illuminating. And I yield | |
| back. | |
| Mr. Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. I now | |
| recognize the Chair of the Subcommittee on the Middle East, | |
| North Africa, and Global Counterterrorism, Representative Ted | |
| Deutch from Florida. | |
| Mr. Deutch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for calling | |
| this important hearing. Thanks to all the witnesses for your | |
| candid and powerful testimony. I share the concerns several of | |
| my colleagues have already expressed over the current situation | |
| in Haiti. And as a representative of south Florida as my | |
| colleague from south Florida, Mr. Mast, mentioned a little | |
| while ago, this is an issue that hits close to home for so many | |
| in the Haitian diaspora community in my district. | |
| And I would like to start by continuing the conversation | |
| about protocol concerns for the proposed elections. I think we | |
| can all agree elections are sorely needed. We all agree that | |
| the Haitian people deserve free, fair, and credible elections. | |
| And I have heard the concerns of our witnesses today that the | |
| current proposed CEP is illegitimate, even illegal, and I have | |
| heard similar concerns from Haiti civil society and from the | |
| diaspora community in my district. | |
| So, Ms. Auguste, in your view, are there any reforms that | |
| would make the current provisional electoral council as | |
| proposed by the administration independent, legitimate, and | |
| able to administer free, fair, and credible elections? | |
| Ms. Auguste. | |
| Ms. Auguste. Yes. Thank you, Congressman Deutch. With | |
| regard to the current CEP, it is not possible to have election | |
| with this illegal CEP and we have already enumerated the | |
| various reason why that cannot happen. Earlier, when I was | |
| talking about insecurity, I would like to add a few points for | |
| you to better understand what is going on in the country. | |
| Today, the Ouest Department and the Artibonite Department | |
| represent 60 percent of the Haitian electorate. The majority of | |
| these voters are being housed in the same place where there are | |
| many gangs, gangs that are associated with the current | |
| government. That also means all candidates who are not | |
| associated with those gangs and the government will not be able | |
| to go into those neighborhoods to campaign. | |
| Within 2 years, the government made three million electoral | |
| cards. So far, they have distributed less than two million. | |
| They were supposed to have done 7,500,000 cards for the voters | |
| to be able to participate in the election process. If we are | |
| saying that election will take place in September, that will | |
| mean in August all the electoral cards have to be distributed. | |
| It is virtually impossible within the current situations for | |
| the Haitian Government to realize that. | |
| Mr. Deutch. Ms. Auguste, I appreciate that. I just have a | |
| bit, excuse me, a bit more time. So let me just, if I may, | |
| thank you, and--sorry, everyone. I want to just, given what you | |
| just said, Ms. Auguste, I just want to address the position | |
| that has been emphasized by some of our Members and witnesses | |
| here today, which is that any election or referendum that is | |
| overseen by the Moise administration would automatically be | |
| seen by the Haitian people as illegitimate. | |
| We have seen on the ground, I have heard, firsthand, human | |
| rights groups and opposition leaders maintaining that Moise's | |
| term ended February 7th and an interim government is necessary | |
| to organize elections now. The question, Ambassador White, that | |
| I have for you is, if the provisional electoral council cannot | |
| meet the standard of being free, fair, and credible, but the | |
| current President does not step down, how can Congress and the | |
| Biden Administration and the international community play a | |
| responsible role in ensuring that any election that is held is | |
| credible and legitimate and then facilitating the public | |
| acceptance of the results and in mediating between the Moise | |
| administration and the opposition? | |
| That is what we are trying to do. I think that is what we | |
| need to do. Ambassador? | |
| Ms. White. Yes. Well, as I said in my testimony, I think | |
| that we, you know, it would be nice if he would step down, but | |
| I do not think that is going to happen. So I think if we sort | |
| of put him aside, you know, in the best of all worlds, and we | |
| have a prime minister appointed that is noncorrupt, that is not | |
| from the political sector, is not from the private sector-- | |
| there are several really good candidates. I am not going to | |
| name them, but there are several--and then we have this summit | |
| that we get to and we put out the old CEP, we have a summit | |
| where the actors come back to the table and we discuss how we | |
| can get the right representation to inform it to have a CEP | |
| that is credible, I mean that is one solution that I can see | |
| happening within the very near future. | |
| I think the problem with transitional governments is then | |
| we are in that mess again and it slows down everything here. It | |
| is not that I am--in fact, I wrote a piece, or talked for a | |
| piece in the New Yorker, a couple years ago, when I said I | |
| think that is exactly what we need. But I think right now we | |
| could use the prime minister option. | |
| Mr. Deutch. Thank you very much. I think my time has | |
| expired. Thanks, Ambassador. Thanks to all the witnesses. Mr. | |
| Chairman, thanks for this very important hearing today. Yield | |
| back. | |
| Mr. Meeks. And, you are right. The gentleman's time has | |
| expired. I am going to, after I recognize the next member, I am | |
| going to ask Representative Levin to Chair the meeting briefly | |
| as I have to step away to another briefing. But I shall be back | |
| shortly, but Representative Levin will Chair. I now recognize | |
| Representative Greg Steube of Florida for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Steube. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| My questions are for Ambassador White. Haiti's poorest | |
| border with the Dominican Republic is extremely vulnerable to | |
| illicit trade. Haiti's maritime borders also remain virtually | |
| unregulated which contributes to economic insecurity. How can | |
| the Haitian Government increase customs control at its borders? | |
| Ms. White. Oh, boy. And a good question. Very good | |
| question. We worked with that so much when I was there and we | |
| were making progress. A lot of it consulting with people that | |
| had set up custom border patrols in the United States, and we | |
| were making some real progress, but then the funding ran out | |
| and I think it all just went backward. | |
| But, you know, you can set up honest custom control across | |
| along the Haitian border if you have enough money to do it and | |
| that is the big problem. And, you know, especially U.S. Custom | |
| Patrol people were incredibly knowledgeable, incredibly | |
| generous with their time in helping us and advising us, and I | |
| think that that, you know, if you can get that back on track | |
| again it would be fabulous. And neither. | |
| Mr. Steube. Well, could you describe how serious this | |
| problem is to Haiti's future development prospects? | |
| Ms. White. You know, I have not been to Haiti in 3 years. I | |
| do not know what is going on right now. I can certainly tell | |
| you what was going on when I was there, but the migration of | |
| workers and the migration of goods, and, you know, even though | |
| there was a major scale-up of migration called disease, is | |
| something all that really needs to be looked at. At least in my | |
| tenure it was an enormous problem. | |
| Mr. Steube. So what could the Biden Administration do to | |
| help buildup border security there? | |
| Ms. White. Yes, I think we should go, I mean what we would | |
| do, you know, is really quite a good strategy in like I think | |
| we could go back to it very easily, and that is building up | |
| structures and training. And, you know, not only was it great | |
| because it was going to increase border security, but it also | |
| gave an opportunity for wonderful employment opportunity. | |
| Mr. Steube. Adam Hoffner of the U.S. Border Patrol Miami | |
| Sector stated, ``We continuously warn migrants about the | |
| dangers associated with traveling by sea. Smuggling | |
| organizations are not concerned with the safety of the people | |
| there smuggling, rather they continue to put the lives of | |
| migrants at risk.'' What could the Biden Administration do to | |
| address this issue? | |
| Ms. White. Well, you know, it all goes back about the core | |
| reasons that, you know, why are people leaving Haiti to start | |
| with? And, you know, we went through a period when I was | |
| Ambassador that migration to the United States was almost zero. | |
| It was very seldom. And, you know, that is when we were having | |
| a lot of development dollars and we were pumping a lot of money | |
| into the economy and lots of jobs were opening up and stuff | |
| there and we were paying people to, you know, remove the rubble | |
| and make new roads. | |
| And so if Haitians, you know, the whole answer is that | |
| Haitians do not want to migrate. | |
| Mr. Steube. OK. If there are any Republicans, I am happy to | |
| yield time if they want more time. If not, I will yield back to | |
| the Chair. | |
| Mr. Levin [presiding]. Thank you, Representative Steube. | |
| The gentleman yields back. I now recognize the gentlewoman from | |
| Pennsylvania, Representative Wild, for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Wild. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it. I would | |
| like to address my first question to Ambassador White. And, you | |
| know, we have been hearing a lot of frustration about the | |
| current state of things and money that continues to flow to | |
| Haiti and so forth, but I want to take a little bit of a | |
| historical tour with you. | |
| In 1825, France used the threat of military force to force | |
| Haiti to make massive financial payments with interest as a | |
| price for their independence, including the value of enslaved | |
| people freed. In today's dollars, the amount Haiti was forced | |
| to pay for its freedom exceeded 20 billion dollars. So my | |
| questions to you are these, and I will tell you my questions | |
| and then you can answer them in whatever fashion wish. | |
| I would like to know what the impact of these payments was | |
| on Haiti's development and whether you believe that is | |
| difficult to accurately assess Haiti's current structural | |
| challenges without factoring in that history. And I would also | |
| like you to address the fact that in 2015, former French | |
| President Hollande acknowledged a moral debt toward Haiti, but | |
| I believe the debt is very tangible, and I am wondering what | |
| you think France's responsibility is here of whether we and | |
| other Members of the international community should play a role | |
| in urging the French Government to seriously address this | |
| issue. | |
| That is for Ambassador White. Is she with us? | |
| Mr. Levin. Ambassador White, could you hear the question? | |
| She is looking like she does not hear you. | |
| Ms. White [continuing]. Never got over the fact that--yes. | |
| Ms. Wild. I am sorry. I did not--okay, but we cannot hear | |
| you. If you---- | |
| Ms. White. Can you hear me? | |
| Ms. Wild. Yes, could you start---- | |
| Mr. Levin. Try again. Try again, Ambassador White. Go | |
| ahead. | |
| Ms. Wild. Okay. | |
| Ms. White. Can you hear me now? | |
| Ms. Wild. Yes. | |
| Ms. White. Can you hear me? I am not on mute. | |
| Ms. Wild. I can hear you. | |
| Ms. White. I am not on mute. | |
| Ms. Wild. Mr. Chair, can I reclaim a little bit of my time | |
| in relation to that? | |
| Mr. Levin. Yes, go ahead. | |
| Ms. Wild. Ambassador, we can hear you. Go ahead, please. | |
| She cannot hear me. | |
| Ms. White. Let me stop the video. | |
| Ms. Wild. Okay. Did you hear my question? | |
| Ms. White. Now can you hear--yes, I was always shocked-- | |
| yes, I did. | |
| Ms. Wild. Okay, go ahead. | |
| Ms. White. Yes, so I was always shocked that Haiti was made | |
| to pay those reparations. It was amazing to me. And, you know, | |
| actually, interestingly enough, the French had played a role in | |
| Haiti but they do not play as big of role that you always | |
| thought they probably would. | |
| During my time in West Africa, the French were the major | |
| donors and the major players in West Africa and that is where | |
| their major international interest in the Third World is today. | |
| So I just do not enough about why France does not play a bigger | |
| role in Haiti, to tell you the truth, but they have not for a | |
| long time. | |
| Ms. Wild. Well, in your opinion, do you believe that we | |
| should be urging the French Government to address this issue? | |
| Ms. White. Sure. | |
| Ms. Wild. Okay. I am going to move if--I cannot see the | |
| timer, Mr. Chair, but I assume I have another couple of | |
| minutes. | |
| Mr. Levin. Yes, another couple of minutes. Go ahead. | |
| Ms. Wild. Thank you so much. | |
| So I would like to direct this to Ms. Jozef. Our | |
| immigration system has treated Asians, excuse me, Haitians | |
| differently than immigrants of other nationalities in the | |
| region, particularly Cuba and Venezuela, including by limiting | |
| access to asylum. And we have not recognized, historically, | |
| Haitians as facing political persecution. | |
| Could you talk about how the U.S. response to Haitian | |
| migration has shaped our own immigration rules and processes? | |
| Ms. Jozef. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Congresswoman | |
| Wild. The reality is we can look back as I mentioned | |
| previously, the immigration prison system as we know, it | |
| started, created for incarcerating Haitian refugees in the | |
| 1980's fleeing political unrest and political abuse and | |
| persecution. And as we see today, the majority of the people | |
| who have fled are directly connected with political unrest, | |
| lack of security, and also the aftermath of the earthquake, the | |
| storms, the cholera that we continue to see today. | |
| So yes, as black immigrants we know very well how Haitian | |
| migrants, Haitian asylum seekers have always been treated | |
| unfairly. As we are looking today, we have Haitian migrants who | |
| have been waiting at the border between a year and a half to 5 | |
| years. They have literally been waiting. The majority of the | |
| children that are being deported and expelled at the U.S. | |
| Mexican border right now are children who were born on the way, | |
| whether in Brazil, in Chile, in Venezuela, and in Mexico. Yes, | |
| black immigrants, particularly Haitian immigrants, have always | |
| been treated unfairly comparing to other people. | |
| So now you mention Venezuela. We applaud the demonstration, | |
| you know, providing CPS for Venezuela as we are looking in the | |
| middle of the unrest and chaos, political unrest and chaos in | |
| Haiti, yet we do not see where this designation of CPS for | |
| Haiti. | |
| So we understand that anti-Black and racism is also | |
| ingrained in every system and every part of who we are as a | |
| people as a country, but that is why we are imploring and | |
| demanding that we break away from the same way of treating | |
| Haitian immigrants, understanding the value in what we as a | |
| people contribute to the United States. When--[Audio | |
| malfunction.]--to today elected officials and people fighting | |
| on behalf of this Nation. | |
| Ms. Wild. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Thank you, | |
| Mr. Chair. I yield back. | |
| Mr. Levin. I now recognize for 5 minutes, the gentlewoman | |
| from California, Congresswoman Kim. | |
| Ms. Kim of California. I think I am unmuted now. | |
| Mr. Levin. There you go, yes. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Kim of California. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Levin. Go ahead. | |
| Ms. Kim of California. Thank you, Congressman Levin, and I | |
| want to thank all of our witnesses for joining us today. You | |
| know, for years, as it is has been noted, Haiti has been the | |
| second largest recipient of the U.S. assistance in the Western | |
| Hemisphere. We have provided over $172 million allocated in | |
| Fiscal Year 2020. But despite these enormous amounts of | |
| financial assistance from multiple U.S. agencies and | |
| international aid organizations, Haiti remains the poorest and | |
| least developed nation in the Western Hemisphere. | |
| So question to you, Ms. Douyon, could you provide insight | |
| as to which of our agencies is doing the most effective and | |
| efficient job in spending U.S. taxpayer dollars in raising that | |
| standard of living in Haiti and, additionally, which incentives | |
| are in need of reform or refocusing? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Kim. I will let maybe | |
| someone like Ambassador White comment on the work of the U.S. | |
| Government entities, but my comment will be that several or | |
| many people raised this concern about the amount of money sent | |
| to Haiti in general development assistance and the lack of | |
| result. | |
| And I will say that it is not about the money, the amount | |
| of money you spend to Haiti, it is about how it is spent, where | |
| it spent, who will get the money to do what, and there is a | |
| huge problem of the way we allocate that in Haiti. It does not | |
| go to the real project. And this is also, it was not with the | |
| U.S. Government money or United States taxpayer money, but it | |
| happened with Venezuela, the people cried because they helped | |
| us, they sent us a lot of money and that money was mismanaged, | |
| and this was like the largest corruption scandal in the | |
| country. | |
| It will happen with any other kind of development | |
| assistance fund until we send a clear signal that we are | |
| fighting corruption. And this is exactly what we are doing now | |
| in Haiti and until we do that, you can send money, the U.S. can | |
| help send almost whatever the amount of money they want. The | |
| same thing will happen. | |
| Ms. Kim of California. Thank you so much. Given the limited | |
| time, I would like to pivot to Ambassador White, if you have | |
| any input on this and can I hear your thoughts on this? | |
| Ms. White. Yes. I think, like I said before that, you know, | |
| the tremendous amount of money that we are allocating to Haiti | |
| now is going to humanitarian aid, food aid, basic health aid, | |
| education, and I think that that is all critical. We do not | |
| give money to the Haitian Government directly. We explored that | |
| when I was there. We realized that there was just too much | |
| corruption in the government and so we do not do that and we | |
| should not. | |
| Ms. Kim of California. All right. You know, I would like to | |
| touch on the lack of infrastructure in Haiti impacting the | |
| accessibility to basic services. You know, as you say, we can | |
| pour as much money as we want into Haiti but, you know, and try | |
| to help them improve medical treatment or nutrition, but if | |
| Haitians are unable to reach food banks because of the poorly | |
| constructed roads or access medical care due to poorly | |
| constructed hospitals, this money will be concentrated in the | |
| city centers and leave much of the country to on its own. | |
| So how is the U.S. cooperating with Haiti on the | |
| infrastructure projects to ensure that aid reaches the | |
| populations that need it the most and which agencies are best | |
| suited to accomplish this job? | |
| Ambassador White, are you still on there? | |
| Ms. White. Yes. Sorry, sorry. I did not know if you were | |
| asking me or not. I do not know, currently, what is going on in | |
| that direction in Haiti. I wish I did, but I do not. When I was | |
| there, the PEPFAR money that both AID and CDC ran, you know, | |
| was doing a tremendous amount of trying to get money to every | |
| clinic across the Nation. And, you know, we had at least two or | |
| three hundred clinics that we were working with, you know, | |
| increasing training to the nurses, getting the right drugs to | |
| these clinics, and I do not know if that is still ongoing or | |
| not. I believe that it is. | |
| But the problem is just as you say. Even if you have a | |
| clinic and, you know, Village X, if people are having problems | |
| accessing that village, then you still have a problem. But any | |
| kind of infrastructure improvement of the roads is a | |
| multibillion-dollar project and there is just not enough money | |
| for that. Not U.S. money. | |
| Ms. Kim of California. Let me put in one more question. I | |
| know I want to touch on the human rights situation. Ms. | |
| Auguste, as everyone here has testified that the human rights | |
| situation on the ground in Haiti is dire and unstable. The rise | |
| in violence against vulnerable populations through homicide, | |
| kidnapping, and sexual violence is clearly---- | |
| Mr. Levin. Representative Kim, your time has expired. It is | |
| really--do you have a very, very quick question for Ms. | |
| Auguste---- | |
| Ms. Kim of California. Yes, yes. | |
| Mr. Levin [continuing]. Like in 10 seconds? | |
| Ms. Kim of California. May I ask that the gentleman from | |
| Florida, Mr. Steube, can I ask how much time he had left to | |
| yield? | |
| Mr. Levin. His time is expired, Ms. Kim. | |
| Ms. Kim of California. Okay, let me just--yes. May I finish | |
| my question then? | |
| Mr. Levin. I will come back to you if there is time at the | |
| end, but we---- | |
| Ms. Kim of California. Okay. | |
| Mr. Levin. There is still a lot of people who want to ask | |
| questions. | |
| Ms. Kim of California. All right, thank you. | |
| Mr. Levin. If that is okay. Yes, thanks so much. All right, | |
| and actually it is my turn now to ask my questions. I want to | |
| thank Chairman Meeks and Ranking Member McCaul. I just cannot | |
| tell you how pleased I am that the two of you called this | |
| hearing on the full committee level. I know that Chairman Sires | |
| of the Subcommittee agrees with me that a whole committee | |
| hearing shows a level of concern that is truly warranted for | |
| this crisis in Haiti. | |
| I want to make clear before I begin, one thing for the | |
| record. I am grateful to all the people who are testifying | |
| before us, and I know witnesses could face intimidation or | |
| threats because of your honest testimony. I have zero tolerance | |
| for that and I request that any witness who experiences any | |
| form or retaliation for your testimony, please alert the | |
| committee immediately. Your willingness to appear and your | |
| candor are essential to our work and your well-being is a | |
| priority for us and I think I probably speak for every member | |
| here on that. | |
| Second, I want to emphasize that we have already made a | |
| little history in this hearing today. We have real bipartisan | |
| agreement here, which is often helpful and powerful in | |
| effective congressional input to change the direction of U.S. | |
| foreign policy. Our bipartisan panel of witnesses has made it | |
| perfectly clear that both a constitutional referendum and | |
| elections organized under de facto President Moise will not | |
| work and will not be seen as legitimate by the Haitian people. | |
| Ranking Member McCaul stated in his usual straightforward | |
| way his agreement with this position, so this hearing is truly | |
| providing the basis for a new way forward for U.S. policy. The | |
| panel has already made clear that Haitian civil society broadly | |
| considered Mr. Moise's term to have ended on February 7th, | |
| 2021, that he is widely considered illegitimate by the Haitian | |
| people, that the CEP he created unilaterally is not legal or | |
| legitimate, and that Haiti needs not simply elections but the | |
| conditions that can lead to legitimate elections. | |
| The United States needs to stop talking about squabbling | |
| between politicians and listen to human rights, business, | |
| labor, legal, and other civil society groups. These groups are | |
| actually trying to come together to create a plan that would | |
| work to restore the rule of law and a path to democracy. So | |
| following Congresswoman Bass, let's talk about the way forward. | |
| Ms. Douyon, can you briefly explain how Haiti has had | |
| transitional governments before and what a broad cross-section | |
| of Haitian groups believe should happen now? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congressman Levin. We have had | |
| transitional government before because even in the past, | |
| elected leaders failed to organize election, timely election, | |
| so we have to fill the void. And we had it in 2004, we had it | |
| in 2015, and this time around is the same problem. Joyenel | |
| Moise, despite the fact that he enjoyed a comfortable majority | |
| in parliament, failed to organize election. So now we have to | |
| replace the parliament, we have to elect local officials, and | |
| we have to elect a new President because his term ended. | |
| So a traditional government will have, we start democratic | |
| order, will have improved overall security situation and | |
| organized election, and---- | |
| Mr. Levin. Can I just ask? I do not know if I--if Ms. | |
| Auguste is still here, but if so, I would like her to weigh in | |
| on my last minute on whether she, you know, if she can add to | |
| what you said or whether she agrees with you, to see if the | |
| panel broadly agrees on this. | |
| Can you hear me? Okay, go ahead. | |
| Ms. Auguste. Yes. I hear you very well. Thank you very | |
| much, Congressman Levin. I would like to start with the | |
| threats, so especially those of us who are in the human rights | |
| community, generally. However, the people who are living in the | |
| impoverished communities who pull themselves together to stand | |
| against the human rights violations and against this | |
| unconstitutional government are threatened by them. | |
| One thing that I would like to emphasize on is that us | |
| within the Haitian civil society, we realize that it is the | |
| international community that allows Joyenel Moise to continue | |
| to remain at the palace. The impunity is so daring that on | |
| February 13 they arrest Fednel Monchery, who has already been | |
| cited in the La Saline massacre, they release him a few hours | |
| thereafter. That means we cannot count on this government to go | |
| by security and ensure that the population gets what they need. | |
| Like Chairman Meeks has said before, the former President | |
| Joyenel Moise have lost all credibility and is not able to | |
| govern the country at the moment. | |
| Mr. Levin. All right, I am afraid my time has expired and I | |
| am going to hold myself to the same rules. So if we have time | |
| later, Ms. Auguste, we will come back to you. | |
| And now my understanding, there are not currently any of | |
| our Republican colleagues who wish to ask questions and that | |
| means I get to turn it over to my esteemed colleague from | |
| Pennsylvania, Representative Houlahan, for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Houlahan. Thank you, Representative Levin, and I | |
| appreciate the opportunity to ask questions. | |
| My first question is for Ms. Douyon. I was hoping to be | |
| able to dive a little bit deeper into the role that women can | |
| play in policy discussions in Haiti around governance and | |
| around constitutional reform and how can we here in the U.S. | |
| and in this body help to promote women's participation in the | |
| government, in the Haitian Government and its civil society? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Houlahan. I do not | |
| know if I pronounce it correctly. | |
| Ms. Houlahan. You did. | |
| Ms. Douyon. And as a feminist myself, I believe women have | |
| a large role to play in Haiti politics and this is actually the | |
| case already, but much is needed to be done. And I also need to | |
| acknowledge that several feminist organizations were concerned | |
| over the situation in Haiti, the current situation in Haiti. | |
| Women need to be represented in the electoral council, but what | |
| happened is that respected organizations refused to adhere to a | |
| process that was then legal, and the government picked some | |
| other women from organization that no one knows about to | |
| consider that electoral council. | |
| And what happen is that you have organization that are | |
| legitimate and recognized that have been underground for many | |
| years. They are not involved and they are left behind in the | |
| process. And they kept saying it, and there is several press | |
| note. And the civil society in their plan to have a | |
| transitional government actually specified that there need to | |
| be a quota of women because several times they violated this in | |
| the law, we need to have at least 30 percent of women, but many | |
| times they do not follow--they do not respect this quota and | |
| they are advocating for it. | |
| And we believe, and even for the new constitution that puts | |
| us because it is not legal, those respected organizations are | |
| not involved, but in the future when the society will agree to | |
| make change to the Constitution maybe we will have provision | |
| for increased women participation in Haiti politics. | |
| Ms. Houlahan. Is there anything that you can think of that | |
| we can be doing to be helpful in driving that process? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Yes. First of all, maybe you can question why | |
| does legitimate organization are not involved, and how you can | |
| have--you can do anything with including women and those who | |
| have been defending women's rights in the country for so many | |
| years. And I think we can start here and later making sure that | |
| whether it is in terms of the local system or anything that or | |
| any decision that is being taken, if women are on the table, | |
| because it is very important that we do not have the kind of | |
| situation where only men are deciding what is the fate of the | |
| country. | |
| And just, and I have to note that there is something really | |
| positive happening with the young activists, organizers, and | |
| like mine has many women involved and we are actually ensuring | |
| that we are equally qualified and we can have like leadership | |
| position, we can assume our responsibility just like men, and | |
| there is no reason we shouldn't have equal opportunities. | |
| Ms. Houlahan. Agreed. And I am not sure, Representative | |
| Levin, how much time more time that I have. | |
| Mr. Levin. A minute-twenty. | |
| Ms. Houlahan. All right, great. With my minute-twenty, I | |
| would like to direct my last question to Ms. Auguste. My | |
| question is how can we best be utilizing our relationships in | |
| Latin America and the Caribbean to help support democracy in | |
| Haiti? What can we be doing to be helpful there and what | |
| international organizations are most useful? And thank you. | |
| Ms. Auguste. Okay, thank you, Congresswoman Houlahan. I | |
| think there is a lot of things that the U.S. can do to change | |
| their relationships with Haiti. First and foremost, I think the | |
| U.S. administration needs to listen to the Haitian civil | |
| society who have a lot of recommendations and demand that they | |
| can share with them that can be significant to the chance that | |
| we are seeking. | |
| With your permission, I would like to quickly address the | |
| issue of women's participation within the elections system. | |
| Ms. Houlahan. Representative Levin, I do not know if I have | |
| the time for that, but perhaps we could go back to that? | |
| Mr. Levin. No, you have a bit of time left. It is a little | |
| different when there is translation because they stop the clock | |
| for the translation. | |
| Ms. Houlahan. Oh, Okay. Okay. | |
| Mr. Levin. So do not worry. I will stop you. Go ahead. | |
| Ms. Auguste. Okay, thank you. One thing that I would like | |
| to add is that the current insecurity that we have will not | |
| allow women to participate in this election neither as | |
| candidate or as voters. At the same time, the Haitian political | |
| parties have to come and put forward the mechanisms to allow | |
| women to be able to participate fully in the electoral process. | |
| Mr. Levin. And with that--oops. With that, I think we have | |
| to move on. I am sorry. Again, if we have more time, we will | |
| come back. It is such a rich conversation. And I will just | |
| point out that all four of our panelists and our translator are | |
| women and they are doing an outstanding job in this hearing, | |
| whatever that, you know, whatever that means. | |
| Ms. Houlahan. I yield back. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Levin. And, Mr. Fitzpatrick, if you have questions, you | |
| are up next, or if you want to wait because I know you just | |
| popped on. | |
| Mr. Fitzpatrick. Thank you, Mr. Levin. If Representative | |
| Young Kim is still on, I am happy to yield my time to her. I | |
| know she was looking for extra time. | |
| Mr. Levin. Yes, she was. I do not know if she is or not. I | |
| do not see her name. We will wait a minute. | |
| All right, well, you know, we can come back to that as | |
| well. So let me recognize the gentlewoman from Nevada, | |
| Representative Titus, for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Titus. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. It has been | |
| indeed an interesting conversation. And I would like to shift a | |
| little to maybe Ms. Jozef and ask her about the refugee | |
| situation. | |
| One of President Biden's first actions in office was to | |
| sign an executive order rescinding some of the Trump | |
| administration's immigration enforcement policies and he also | |
| directed Homeland Security to reexamine our own policies and | |
| priorities. DHS instituted a hundred-day pause on deportation | |
| with limited exceptions during this review process, but a legal | |
| challenge, unfortunately, lifted that pause so deportations are | |
| continuing. | |
| I just wonder if the Haitian Government is doing anything | |
| to ensure the safety of returning individuals, many of whom | |
| left saying they feared for their lives because of the gang | |
| violence throughout the country. | |
| Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much, Representative Titus. The | |
| reality is even when President Biden's moratorium did not cover | |
| the expulsion of migrants under Title 42, which is the CDC | |
| Title, and we are asking for that Title to be rescinded so that | |
| we can provide protection for the most vulnerable people. | |
| I also would like to mention that it is extremely | |
| concerning for the Haitian President, for the Haitian | |
| Government to be agreeing to receive a people who have | |
| literally fled due to violence, due to political unrest, and | |
| due to persecution. As I mentioned during my first opening, one | |
| of the women who was kidnapped and raped and fled was returned | |
| to Haiti and is currently in hiding unable to leave her house | |
| because of fear that what will happen to her. | |
| So with all of that being said, what is happening with the | |
| migration, what is happening at the border with the | |
| deportation, with expulsion, we are asking for all of that to | |
| stop because it is unbelievable. And we believe that it is | |
| borderline criminal for the Haitian Government to be receiving | |
| people in these conditions at the present moment. | |
| And would also like to highlight that even people who were | |
| not born in Haiti have been deported to Haiti. We are demanding | |
| accountability on both sides, from the U.S. side and our | |
| Haitian side, understanding it is a sending and receiving | |
| relationship and we are asking for that to stop immediate. | |
| Ms. Titus. So are NGO's involved in that whole process with | |
| you either through the courts in legal cases or advocating for | |
| some of these people who have returned? | |
| Ms. Jozef. We are advocating. However, when people are | |
| returned to Haiti, it is extremely impossible for them to get | |
| any type of relief when they are returned, released with | |
| nothing, and they have to find a way to fend for themselves, to | |
| go into hiding, to try to find another way so that they can | |
| probably even leave the country again. There is absolutely no | |
| relief, no protection for people who are being returned to | |
| Haiti at this moment. | |
| Ms. Titus. Sounds like that is something that we may be | |
| able to look into to provide some help at our end. | |
| Ms. Jozef. We definitely have, not just had looked, but we | |
| must provide help now and we must provide, you know, a way for | |
| people to legally, safely get protection in asking asylum. We | |
| must redesignate a CPS for Haiti to cover those who are here | |
| and really, really to make sure that we have a strong Haitian | |
| American community. | |
| Ms. Titus. Thank you very much. Just a little bit of time | |
| left, I would like to ask about education in Haiti. We have a | |
| figure that one of every two Haitians age 15 and over is | |
| illiterate, yet we know education is the way to get out of | |
| poverty to create a better future. Is there anything that we | |
| can do to help, or to help NGO's or help any of you, help with | |
| the expanding education opportunities? | |
| Anybody? | |
| Ms. Auguste. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Titus. | |
| Today, education is a problem just like all the other issues | |
| that we are dealing with. The current educational system we | |
| have does not provide a good system for everybody to learn idea | |
| quickly, and it is also not a system that is fair to able to | |
| address everyone's problems regarding so whatever discrepancies | |
| or challenges that they may have. | |
| We also have a system that is corrupted because there was | |
| the national educational funds that was created by the Martelly | |
| government. Money is taken from the Haitian diaspora on a | |
| regular basis. No report has been given on that money and it | |
| has not been utilized to assist the Haitian children to make | |
| sure attending school. | |
| Mr. Levin. And again, I need to step in and say the | |
| gentlewoman's time has expired. But again, that answer is on | |
| such an important question. I understand---- | |
| Ms. Wild. Thank you, Chairman. | |
| Mr. Levin. Thanks, Representative Titus. I understand that | |
| even school children now are being at risk of kidnappings which | |
| is just incredible. | |
| Now let me recognize my wonderful colleague from the state | |
| of Minnesota for 5 minutes, Representative Omar, for her | |
| questions. | |
| Ms. Omar. Thank you so much for calling this important | |
| meeting, Chairman. I am especially grateful that we have the | |
| opportunity to hear directly from folks who are being impacted | |
| by our policies. I wanted to start with--direct my question to | |
| Ms. Auguste. | |
| The last President changed U.S. policy to make it easier | |
| for American gun manufacturers to export guns to other | |
| countries including Haiti. Many of us are pushing for our new | |
| President to reverse this. In Haiti, how do gangs and organized | |
| crime get their guns, and do guns--do these guns used to commit | |
| violence in Haiti mostly come from the United States? | |
| Ms. Auguste. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Omar. I | |
| will start by answering your question. Yes, there are a lot of | |
| weapons that arrive on the Haitian territory that comes from | |
| the U.S. They come from our different various ports. There are | |
| also other weapons that enter the country through our borders | |
| because both our ports at the borders are just open. | |
| There was a resolution that was taken that Haiti should not | |
| be entering weapons in the country. Despite the fact that there | |
| is an arms embargo on Haiti, to this day no authorities in the | |
| Haitian Government can tell us where these weapons are coming | |
| from and who is entering them in the country. It is the gangs | |
| who said that they are better armed than the Haitian National | |
| Police, and that is why we are saying that the Haitian National | |
| Police is currently weakened and politicized. | |
| Ms. Omar. Thank you for your answer. | |
| And to Ms. Douyon, should the United States be supporting | |
| elections in Haiti this year regardless of the context and, in | |
| your opinion, what are the changes that election in Haiti this | |
| year, what are the chances that the elections this year would | |
| be free, fair, and legitimate? | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Omar. If the United | |
| States want to waste money and support the new political | |
| crisis, yes, they can invest in election in Haiti this year. | |
| Otherwise, the best alternative will be to listen to civil | |
| society who could indicate when it is OK to hold election. | |
| Because with gangs member we have--our President does is acting | |
| like a strongman in clear violations of human rights and many | |
| areas are under gang control, there isn't any possibility that | |
| we could have fair and inclusive elections. Who can campaign | |
| without gang support, and we do not want the kind of officials | |
| that have gang support to be elected or--but if we call | |
| elections now, those people are the one who have real advantage | |
| by the current insecurity and climate of fear that is going on | |
| in Haiti. | |
| And also we need to audit the electoral system and we have | |
| an illegal electoral council. All those problems need to be | |
| solved if we want to have election that could lead us to the | |
| chance that the Haitian people deserve. | |
| Ms. Omar. I really appreciate your answer. | |
| And to Ms. Jozef, I know that you have just addressed this | |
| question in regards to deportations. I am wondering if you can | |
| maybe expand on how these deportations are impacting the | |
| situation on the ground in Haiti especially in the context of | |
| the COVID pandemic. | |
| Ms. Jozef. Thank you so much, Congresswoman Omar. Thank you | |
| so much for being here. The reality is we started asking to | |
| stop deportations and expulsions to Haiti under Title 42 back | |
| in March when we realized that was going to be a major | |
| catastrophe for Haiti with a lack of infrastructure for medical | |
| care. And I also want to highlight that the numbers that are | |
| being seen or reported are not actual numbers. So in Haiti, | |
| there is no way for people to literally know how many people | |
| have been affected and died from COVID, for many different | |
| reasons. | |
| However, we also understand that in May 2020, we had words | |
| that at least three of those people who were deported to Haiti, | |
| upon arriving in Haiti tested positive for COVID-19. And I | |
| personally saw a spike in COVID-19 as relation to this flight. | |
| We also understand that a lot of people that were deported to | |
| Guatemala also were tested positive for COVID-19 upon arrival | |
| in their home country. | |
| So this is a major concern as we understand transfers | |
| between detention centers and prison and flight carries over | |
| the grave, grave injustice that can be seen when it comes to | |
| medical assistance and medical care. So that is why we are | |
| asking for the stopping of those expulsion and those | |
| deportation in the spirit of good neighbor or in the spirit of | |
| protecting in health care. | |
| Ms. Omar. Thank you all for your wonderful insights. Thank | |
| you, Chairman. I yield back. | |
| Mr. Levin. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back. Now to | |
| the first of our fabulous freshwomen, the gentlewoman from | |
| California, Representative Jacobs. | |
| Ms. Jacobs. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you to | |
| all of our witnesses for being here. This has been incredibly | |
| interesting and I share my colleagues' concerns about the | |
| current situation. But I wanted to ask Ms. Douyon a question. | |
| You know, I too have been part of conversations around | |
| Haiti for many years where we have been having similar | |
| conversations over and over again, but I noticed that in your | |
| opening you said that you think this is not the same moment as | |
| other crises and that we have an opportunity to fundamentally | |
| change things. And I was wondering if you could elaborate on | |
| why you think that is the case and what specifically it would | |
| take so that this really would fundamentally change things and | |
| we would not continue this cycle. | |
| Ms. Douyon. Thank you, Congresswoman Jacobs. I think we | |
| could only go back to maybe the time when we were fighting | |
| dictatorship to find the same spirit that is going on in Haiti | |
| now that called for change, that the involvement of so many | |
| different kind of people. For example, speaking on behalf of | |
| the collective of angry citizens who have never done politics | |
| before, we were never involved so actively in activities then. | |
| But back in 2018, we have noticed that something needed to | |
| be done, like we needed to be involved to save what is left to | |
| be saved of Haiti, and this is why we are doing it and we have | |
| been doing it constantly since 2018. And this is because of | |
| people like us in Nou Pap Domi, the people challenging, those | |
| people who fought dictatorship and are still fighting the ways | |
| of dictatorship, now that I believe that something different is | |
| happening. | |
| We are tired, like there is a--no one want to keep going | |
| with the same cycle and it is obvious that the system that we | |
| are fighting can no longer renew itself. For like 4 years in | |
| power, the President, despite the fact that he has a | |
| comfortable majority, he has not been able to achieve anything. | |
| Like he has not been able to satisfy any need from the | |
| population and he does not even have like support as to go on | |
| the street to say, we are with him, we are supporting him. | |
| Like everyone realized like the majority of people, there | |
| is a broad consensus that we need to change something if we | |
| want to develop this country. And I believe that this new era | |
| can start now, and this is why we are asking for the U.S. | |
| Government to recognize that the civil society is taking the | |
| lead, to recognize that this time around is different, and they | |
| need to be on the side of change. | |
| Ms. Jacobs. Thank you. Thank you so much. | |
| And then I would like to ask if Ambassador White is still | |
| on, what she thinks the United States can learn from its | |
| previous interventions and in terms of how we should approach | |
| things differently. And, you know, I know you talked about | |
| conditioning aid and some other things, but I guess what I am | |
| just trying to make sure is that we do not like do the same ten | |
| things we have done in every think-tank report we have had | |
| since the earthquake, and then have this same hearing again in | |
| 3 years from now when it does not work. | |
| Ms. White. Thank you. Yes, I do think we have a unique | |
| opportunity right now to get tough. And, you know, when I look | |
| back even when the, you know, some of the final months of when | |
| I was in Haiti, because we were going through the same, you | |
| know, the powers that there was no parliament. The CEP was | |
| first made up of a cast of characters that weren't acceptable, | |
| but we got it right, finally. But I think we have to hold their | |
| feet to the fire and we have to be tough and we have to be | |
| outspoken and I think the Biden Administration is ready to do | |
| that. I hope so. | |
| But let me just mention one other thing that I, during this | |
| hearing, could not tell if it was a Republican or a Democrat | |
| asking the questions. And I, normally, I am really good at | |
| that. So congratulations to you, because I really do feel that | |
| this is a bipartisan committee hearing and thank you for that. | |
| Ms. Jacobs. Well, thank you. And with that, Mr. Chair, I | |
| yield back. | |
| Mr. Levin. And I believe Mr. Meeks is back to take the | |
| gavel back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Levin. I now recognize the Vice | |
| Chair of the Subcommittee of the Middle East, North Africa, and | |
| Global Counterterrorism, Representative Kathy Manning of North | |
| Carolina, for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Manning. Thank you, Chairman Meeks. I want to thank all | |
| of the witnesses for their testimony today and I am delighted | |
| that we have had this hearing so early in this session of | |
| Congress. The situation that was described by all the witnesses | |
| was, is heartbreaking and discouraging. | |
| And we have talked at length about the political situation, | |
| Ambassador White, you had some very specific suggestions of | |
| things that could be done to address the political situation | |
| and I am wondering if you have similarly specific | |
| recommendations for steps the U.S. could take to improve the | |
| economic situation in Haiti. | |
| Ms. White. Yes, I do. I think, overall, USAID, it has | |
| always been my contention that we should spend more money on | |
| getting people jobs because countries do not move forward | |
| without jobs. But in order to get people into jobs, we need to | |
| do some--pay attention to at least giving people skills that | |
| they can use to rebuild the country. | |
| And when I was head of USAID in Liberia, we had this | |
| fabulous program that linked literacy skills with basic skills | |
| in electricity, in brickmaking and building, with car | |
| mechanics, et cetera, et cetera, so that we could--we taught | |
| people literacy at the same time we were training them in basic | |
| skills with unrelated skills and | |
| [inaudible] Congress has been over and over very reluctant | |
| to give money to job training skills, and I think that is a | |
| mistake. | |
| Ms. Manning. Would any of the other witnesses like to | |
| comment on that? I am looking for specific ways the U.S. can | |
| help improve the economic situation in Haiti. | |
| Ms. Douyon. Representative Manning, if you allow me to add | |
| a few points, if we want to improve the economic situation in | |
| Haiti, there is a need to attract investment, but we cannot | |
| attract investment if the current President is still | |
| undermining rule of law and if the other law security situation | |
| is still as whatever it is. | |
| This is why so many people do not come to invest in Haiti | |
| and we cannot have like people in the diaspora coming back home | |
| to improve, to work, to invest, and this is one--we cannot | |
| disassociate the economic situation from the political and | |
| social situation and which will improve and solve this | |
| political crisis. | |
| If we want to attract investment, restore peace so that | |
| economic activists can thrive, because what is happening now | |
| with people who like fearing to even leave their house, there | |
| is great concern that we could see any improvement anytime | |
| soon. | |
| Ms. Manning. Thank you. Yes? | |
| Ms. Jozef. I would like to briefly add that again we need, | |
| as my fierce justice warrior Emmanuela mentioned, we need to | |
| look at the root causes of where we are right now and really, | |
| you know, work with the people of Haiti to create the | |
| infrastructure that is needed in order for us to move forward, | |
| including education, including access to health care, including | |
| rebuilding a culture, which open, which Haiti has always | |
| flourished. | |
| Sending rice to Haiti, sending all those things, that all | |
| literally diminished the farming industry. We need to look into | |
| building sustainable structural in Haiti from education to | |
| access to health care, to farming, to our culture so that we as | |
| the Haitian people can reclaim their place and really create a | |
| system where people will be able to stay at home safe and | |
| others can come in and then investing into the community as | |
| well. | |
| Ms. Manning. Thank you. | |
| And, Ms. Ducena, would you like to comment on that as well? | |
| Ms. Auguste. Yes. Thank you so much, Congresswoman Manning. | |
| The economic situation has currently ties to the social | |
| political crisis that we are dealing with. | |
| If you do not have political ability, you cannot have | |
| economic stability just like my colleague Jozef and Douyon have | |
| already explained. The first step we need to take in terms of | |
| changing the economic situations in Haiti is to once | |
| acknowledge Article 134-2 from the Constitution. It had | |
| demanded for former President Joyenel Moise as ended on | |
| February 7th, 2021, then the country can work toward building a | |
| greater nation. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Manning. Thank you, Mr. Chair. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has expired. I | |
| now recognize the Vice Chair of the Subcommittee on Western | |
| Hemisphere, Civilian Security, Migration, and International | |
| Economic Policy, Representative Juan Vargas from California, | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Vargas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I hope you can | |
| hear me. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you very much for this | |
| hearing. Being toward the end here, I have had the opportunity | |
| to listen to not only our presenters but also all the questions | |
| from our colleagues. And I have to tell you, I do not know what | |
| we should do, I really do not. | |
| But I know that what we should not do, we should not deport | |
| Haitians back to Haiti. That is what we should not do. We | |
| should not do that. And why should not we do that? From all the | |
| testimony that we heard here people are afraid to go buy | |
| groceries. People are afraid to get out money to get on the | |
| bus. People are afraid to make even small buys of anything | |
| because the gangs figure out they have money and they will get | |
| kidnapped to take that money away. They have closed some of the | |
| schools not so much even for the fear of COVID-19, but because | |
| children and their parents get kidnapped. | |
| We should not deport people back into that situation. That | |
| is outrageous. The administration should allow them to stay and | |
| until the situation changes in Haiti. Now I have to say also, | |
| in my own opinion, I could be wrong, but I think it is also | |
| discrimination and I think it is discrimination because | |
| Haitians are black. I think that that is a reality. I think | |
| that there is a terrible discrimination going on here that | |
| shouldn't happen. | |
| So anyway, I think we should urge the administration to | |
| quit deporting people back to Haiti. I mean does anyone agree | |
| with me at all? I mean isn't--how about Ms. Douyon? Do you | |
| agree that we should not deport people back to Haiti? | |
| Ms. Douyon. I agree. I agree that even though the | |
| conditions in Haiti right now it is not fair to deport people | |
| back to Haiti, and if we really want to avoid dealing with this | |
| kind of situation like having people migrating illegally to the | |
| United States we need to support efforts to restore peace in | |
| Haiti and make Haiti livable for the people. | |
| Mr. Vargas. And I agree with that. I mean I think we need | |
| to do all we can to help Haiti. I am completely in favor of | |
| that. But I just do not understand why we are deporting | |
| Haitians back to Haiti in these conditions. That does not make | |
| any sense to me. That does not make any sense. And also we have | |
| been talking about how to have fair and free elections that, | |
| you know, we cannot trust the situation as it is right now to | |
| have free and fair elections. I agree with that. | |
| I think that will take some time to sort out, but in the | |
| meantime, why are we deporting people? I mean that does not | |
| make any sense to me and that is something I think that we | |
| should put pressure on this administration. This administration | |
| has the opportunity to do that. I mean they do it for Cubans. | |
| They do it for Venezuelans, for others. Why not for Haitians? | |
| Ms. Jozef. Congressman Vargas, thank you so much for making | |
| those points. | |
| Mr. Vargas. Yes. | |
| Ms. Jozef. The reality is, we absolutely believe that it is | |
| anti-black racism play a big part of why people are being | |
| deported to Haiti and also the fact that we continue to see | |
| some type of support to the current administration in Haiti. | |
| And as I mentioned before, it is borderline criminal for both, | |
| you know, the U.S. sending people in for Haiti to be receiving | |
| people. | |
| We are asking as you have said, to provide a safe and | |
| welcoming, you know, a plan for those people who have left, who | |
| have ran, and have literally been at the border between a year | |
| and a half to 5 years. It is unconscionable to see the | |
| condition that black people continues to be treated, not only | |
| in the United States but around the world. | |
| And we see a direct relation between how they are deporting | |
| people to Haiti under the rules of Title 42, which literally | |
| allow people to be tested negative before being deported based | |
| on what ICE is saying. It is absolutely no reason for the | |
| United States after President Biden promised the Haitian | |
| American community that he was going to lead the way, we cannot | |
| continue to repeat those just inhumane treatment of Haitians. | |
| It is unacceptable. | |
| Mr. Vargas. Amen. And I would add this too. I live on the | |
| border here in San Diego. The discrimination that goes on also | |
| in Mexico when Haitians arrive here also is terrible, the | |
| discrimination that they face in Mexico when they have every | |
| right to present themselves at the border and say, I am here | |
| for asylum, and apply for asylum. | |
| Anyway, again I--my time is up. But I hope we can do | |
| something about this, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I yield back. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you. The gentleman's time has expired. Our | |
| last member to talk is the distinguished Chair of the Financial | |
| Services Committee, who has been an advocate for Haiti from the | |
| time that I have known her and that is why she spent the time | |
| here today. The honorable Maxine Waters, you are now recognized | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am so | |
| pleased for the leadership that you are providing on this | |
| issue. I am a friend of Haiti and I have been for years and I | |
| have been through some of the better times, but all of the | |
| worst times. I know Andy Apaid and I know he is down there | |
| exploiting the people, still. | |
| I helped to get Guy Philippe put in jail and Toto Constant | |
| that they are sent back here to the United States, who we | |
| should have kept here. He was the death squad leader under | |
| Sadras when that coup d'etat took place. I have been with | |
| Aristide. I went, rented a plane alone with Randall Robinson. | |
| Remember when we had TransAfrica, Mr. Chairman, and we went to | |
| the jet and we went up and we got Aristide and I brought him | |
| back from the African republic that he was--Central Africa | |
| Republic that he had been banished to. | |
| Now knowing all of this, I also understand Haiti, and I | |
| understand the mulatto's elite and I understand their | |
| relationship to some of the worst people in government, and | |
| that is who Moise and all of them work with because they are | |
| all about the money, exploiting Haiti, and basically about the | |
| fraud and about the corruption. I get all of that. | |
| But I want you to know that, you know, people have been | |
| killed. The last time I was there it was April 2019, and I met | |
| with the victims of La Saline, the massacre that took place, | |
| and they told me about everything that happened November 2018. | |
| And this was all because they were part of Lavalas. And so, you | |
| know, that is the old party of President Aristide that was so | |
| prominent in trying to get democracy in Haiti. | |
| Someone asked today about what was going to be done or what | |
| had ever been done about the fact that the French basically | |
| piled all of this debt on Haiti and what was going to be done | |
| to work in getting that back. Well, that is one of the reasons | |
| Aristide was ousted was because he was talking about stuff like | |
| that. | |
| But I want to tell you that there have been a lot of | |
| reports of similar massacres such as the one that was held in | |
| La Saline. I met with people whose houses had been burned down. | |
| They had no place to go. All they had was the clothing on their | |
| back. And so whether we are talking about Bel Air or we are | |
| talking about Cite Soleil, all of them are under absolute, you | |
| know, violence that has been perpetrated on them by this | |
| President and his police force. | |
| In May of last year, the death squad that was headed by | |
| Jimmy Cherizier, but everybody knows him as Barbeque, he is | |
| running wild down there. He is killing people. He is carrying | |
| out multiple attacks on civilians all through the Port-au- | |
| Prince neighborhoods of Tokyo, Delmas, Pont-Rouge, burning | |
| houses and killing people and doing these violent attacks. | |
| Members of the Haitian National Police allied with Barbeque | |
| reportedly stood by and did nothing. No one has been | |
| accountable for these killings either, so there is a lack of | |
| accountability. | |
| Now I know the question has been raised, what can we do? | |
| Mr. Chairman, I think you are in a great position to help | |
| provide some leadership. I do not know exactly how it should | |
| take place, but I think there is some recommendations that may | |
| make good sense. No. 1, the State Department is very key. I | |
| realize Haiti is a sovereign nation. We cannot just go in there | |
| and tell them what to do and what not to do, what have you, but | |
| we do support Haiti and we do have a State Department there and | |
| so they have got be involved in some way. | |
| The other thing is this, France and Canada, I have seen | |
| them involved when they thought it was in their best interest | |
| to be involved, but I think if Canada and France, the State | |
| Department, the U.S. Government led by you, and the civil | |
| society of Haiti get together and form some kind of a task | |
| force of some kind, you have got to get President Moise to stop | |
| this April referendum. This cannot happen. | |
| This will destroy any efforts to have a Constitution, a | |
| real--it will undermine the Constitution of Haiti. I mean this | |
| has got to be stopped. And if everybody can get together and | |
| maybe some people from the diaspora along with civil society | |
| and with the State Department, the United Nations, and you, and | |
| others, maybe we can stop this referendum. It has got to stop. | |
| Now when you talk about some of the people in civil | |
| society, Dr. Marie Antoinette Gautier, Marie Louise Gautier, | |
| these people are all in jail. They picked them up in the middle | |
| of the night and took them to jail. Louis Buteau and, of | |
| course, the court, the Supreme Court Justice Dabresil, he was | |
| arrested also, but they let him go on his recognizance. But the | |
| rest of them are still in jail and they are talking about they | |
| are going to stay there for 90 days until they can decide what | |
| to do with them. | |
| But in response, and I do not know, but I worked with one | |
| of the past Prime Ministers, Ceant. Ceant, I guess, was up for | |
| a while and somehow he got kicked out by Moise. I do not know | |
| what he is doing. But between those of you who are here today, | |
| some of the names that I am mentioning and with some of the | |
| people that you trust in civil society, get together and | |
| everybody says to Moise, you will not have this referendum, it | |
| will not take place, I think then there can be a start to deal | |
| with how to follow the Constitution, how to get a legitimate | |
| CEP, and how to go forward with elections. | |
| The Ambassador is correct. The Ambassador is right, you | |
| cannot have it in this atmosphere. There is no way it can take | |
| place. And all of the international interest should contribute | |
| the resources that are necessary at the right time, stopping | |
| this referendum and making him step aside. You know, he is the | |
| President, but if all, everybody comes together to say you | |
| cannot do this, that is not kicking him out as President, but | |
| the people will do that when you get the elections going and | |
| you have him step aside and stop the referendum. | |
| And so I just wanted to add that I love Haiti. I will visit | |
| Haiti with my friends and I know that this is not political, | |
| but I am Lavalas. That is it. That is what I have worked with. | |
| I love President Aristide. He is building a university there | |
| that is educating doctors and lawyers and it is fabulous. When | |
| I was there, there was over five or six hundred graduates that | |
| were coming from that university. | |
| We can do this, but we have got to come together with all | |
| of the interest. We have got to stop him in his tracks. We have | |
| got the international community to come together and supply the | |
| dollars and move with an election in an atmosphere where people | |
| will not be killed. | |
| And with that, I know that I have taken up enough time, I | |
| would like to submit for the record, a letter that I sent to | |
| U.S. Ambassador Michele Sison that was signed by 14 of us and | |
| an op-ed that I wrote in the Miami Herald entitled ``Haiti's | |
| President Joyenel Moise's shameful assault on democracy.'' And | |
| I would just like to say that--include CARICOM in that group of | |
| people who will get together, so that was three letters that I | |
| had sent. | |
| Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to follow your lead. I | |
| am going to do what I know you can--I support you in what I | |
| know you can do, and I think you have to take the leadership in | |
| having to bring this group of people together. As I said, civil | |
| society will be central to that. But all of these others who | |
| play a role, I think we can force him to step aside while we | |
| get together to plan an election. | |
| Thank you so much. I yield back the balance of my time. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has expired. | |
| All questions have now been had and all questions are now | |
| concluded. I now call upon Ranking Member McCaul, if you have | |
| any comments before we close. | |
| In closing, let me do this. I do not think Ranking Member | |
| McCaul is with us. I want to thank all of our witnesses today. | |
| No. 1, your insight has been invaluable. I want to thank all of | |
| the Members of this committee who have been engaged on this | |
| critical situation in Haiti. There is clearly a lot of work to | |
| be done and we are going to need to stay focused on Haiti, and | |
| I want all that have been witnessing and listening to this | |
| hearing today to note that this committee is going to stay | |
| focused. | |
| This is not just a one hearing and off and then we are not | |
| going to continue to pay attention to what is going on. I too, | |
| as I said in my opening statement, am very concerned about | |
| moving forward with a referendum and what the current make up | |
| of is the CEP, of the CEP, because we have to have free and | |
| fair elections that involves everyone. Civil society must be a | |
| part of this. | |
| The Haitian people must have confidence in an election. You | |
| cannot have an election just for election's sake because we | |
| would still be in the same place. There has got to be | |
| integrity. So this committee will work with the State | |
| Department and the administration bringing folks together so | |
| that we will know that there will be a change of what is going | |
| on. | |
| So the Haitian people face a big deal and it is a priority | |
| of mine that we work to elevate the voices of civil society who | |
| want democracy and the rule of law. And I thank each and every | |
| one of you for being with us today and I now adjourn this | |
| hearing. | |
| [Whereupon, at 1:11 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] | |
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