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| <title> - MORE THAN A SHOT IN THE ARM: THE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL COVID-19 STIMULUS</title> | |
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| [House Hearing, 117 Congress] | |
| [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] | |
| MORE THAN A SHOT IN THE ARM: THE NEED | |
| FOR ADDITIONAL COVID-19 STIMULUS | |
| ======================================================================= | |
| VIRTUAL HEARING | |
| BEFORE THE | |
| COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES | |
| U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES | |
| ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS | |
| FIRST SESSION | |
| __________ | |
| FEBRUARY 4, 2021 | |
| __________ | |
| Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services | |
| Serial No. 117-1 | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| _________ | |
| U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE | |
| 43-964 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021 | |
| HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES | |
| MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman | |
| CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York PATRICK McHENRY, North Carolina, | |
| NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York Ranking Member | |
| BRAD SHERMAN, California ANN WAGNER, Missouri | |
| GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma | |
| DAVID SCOTT, Georgia BILL POSEY, Florida | |
| AL GREEN, Texas BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri | |
| EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan | |
| ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado STEVE STIVERS, Ohio | |
| JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut ANDY BARR, Kentucky | |
| BILL FOSTER, Illinois ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas | |
| JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio FRENCH HILL, Arkansas | |
| JUAN VARGAS, California TOM EMMER, Minnesota | |
| JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey LEE M. ZELDIN, New York | |
| VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia | |
| AL LAWSON, Florida ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia | |
| MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio | |
| CINDY AXNE, Iowa TED BUDD, North Carolina | |
| SEAN CASTEN, Illinois DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee | |
| AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana | |
| RITCHIE TORRES, New York ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio | |
| STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts JOHN ROSE, Tennessee | |
| ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin | |
| RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan LANCE GOODEN, Texas | |
| MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina | |
| ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York VAN TAYLOR, Texas | |
| JESUS ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois | |
| SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas | |
| NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia | |
| JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts | |
| Charla Ouertatani, Staff Director | |
| C O N T E N T S | |
| ---------- | |
| Page | |
| Hearing held on: | |
| February 4, 2021............................................. 1 | |
| Appendix: | |
| February 4, 2021............................................. 69 | |
| WITNESSES | |
| Thursday, February 4, 2021 | |
| Anthony, Clarence E., CEO and Executive Director, National League | |
| of Cities...................................................... 4 | |
| Johnson, Derrick, President and CEO, National Association for the | |
| Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).......................... 7 | |
| Murguia, Janet, President and CEO, UnidosUS...................... 6 | |
| Spriggs, William E., Chief Economist, the American Federation of | |
| Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO)....... 9 | |
| Strain, Michael R., Economist, American Enterprise Institute..... 10 | |
| APPENDIX | |
| Prepared statements: | |
| Anthony, Clarence E.......................................... 70 | |
| Johnson, Derrick............................................. 74 | |
| Murguia, Janet............................................... 77 | |
| Spriggs, William E........................................... 88 | |
| Strain, Michael R............................................ 111 | |
| Additional Material Submitted for the Record | |
| Waters, Hon. Maxine: | |
| Written statement of the Credit Union National Association | |
| (CUNA)..................................................... 131 | |
| Hill, Hon. French: | |
| Letter from various undersigned organizations................ 134 | |
| MORE THAN A SHOT IN THE ARM: | |
| THE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL | |
| COVID-19 STIMULUS | |
| ---------- | |
| Thursday, February 4, 2021 | |
| U.S. House of Representatives, | |
| Committee on Financial Services, | |
| Washington, D.C. | |
| The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., via | |
| Webex, Hon. Maxine Waters [chairwoman of the committee] | |
| presiding. | |
| Members present: Representatives Waters, Sherman, Meeks, | |
| Scott, Green, Cleaver, Perlmutter, Himes, Foster, Beatty, | |
| Vargas, Gottheimer, Gonzalez of Texas, Lawson, San Nicolas, | |
| Axne, Casten, Pressley, Torres, Lynch, Adams, Tlaib, Ocasio- | |
| Cortez, Garcia of Illinois, Garcia of Texas, Williams of | |
| Georgia, Auchincloss; Wagner, Lucas, Posey, Luetkemeyer, | |
| Huizenga, Stivers, Barr, Williams of Texas, Hill, Emmer, | |
| Zeldin, Loudermilk, Mooney, Davidson, Budd, Kustoff, | |
| Hollingsworth, Gonzalez of Ohio, Rose, Steil, Gooden, Timmons, | |
| and Taylor. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The Financial Services Committee will | |
| come to order. | |
| Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a | |
| recess of the committee at any time. | |
| I want to remind Members of a few matters, including some | |
| required by the regulations which established the framework for | |
| remote committee proceedings. First, I would ask all Members to | |
| keep themselves muted when they are not being recognized by the | |
| Chair. This will minimize disturbances while Members are asking | |
| questions of our witnesses. The staff has been instructed not | |
| to mute Members, except when a Member is not being recognized | |
| by the Chair and there is inadvertent background noise. | |
| Members are also reminded that they may only participate in | |
| one remote proceeding at a time. If you are participating | |
| today, please keep your camera on, and if you choose to attend | |
| a different remote proceeding, please turn your camera off. | |
| If, during the hearing, Members wish to be recognized, the | |
| Chair recommends that Members identify themselves by name so as | |
| to facilitate the Chair's recognition. I would also ask that | |
| Members be patient as the Chair proceeds, given the nature of | |
| the online platform the committee is using. | |
| With that, I yield myself 5 minutes for an opening | |
| statement. | |
| Today, this committee convenes for our very first committee | |
| hearing of the 117th Congress. Today's hearing is entitled, | |
| ``More Than a Shot in the Arm: The Need for Additional COVID-19 | |
| Stimulus.'' Our focus today is on the urgent need for Congress | |
| to provide additional stimulus to address the COVID-19 pandemic | |
| crisis. | |
| Following his decisive victory in the November election, | |
| President Biden has a mandate to move on his agenda and lead | |
| the nation out of this crisis. Finally, we have real leadership | |
| in the White House to provide a serious, comprehensive response | |
| to this virus. | |
| From his first day in office, President Biden has been | |
| moving efficiently and effectively to right the ship and clean | |
| up the mess that his predecessor created. The stimulus package | |
| that Congress passed at the end of last year was the very first | |
| step, and served as an emergency stop gap to help individuals | |
| and families in distress, but it was clear then, and remains | |
| clear now, that much, much more relief is needed. President | |
| Biden has put forth a sensible and well-designed proposal, | |
| called the American Rescue Plan, to provide $1.9 trillion in | |
| essential funding and relief to individuals, families, and | |
| communities across the country. | |
| The American Rescue Plan provides additional direct | |
| stimulus payments, rental assistance, unemployment assistance, | |
| and emergency assistance for local, State and Territory | |
| Governments, as well as other critical relief and measures to | |
| respond to the crisis. Leading economists agree that it is | |
| critical for Congress to pass another large stimulus package. | |
| Federal Reserve Chairman Powell has also noted that, ``Support | |
| from fiscal policy will help households and businesses weather | |
| the downturn as well as limit lasting damage to the economy | |
| that could otherwise impede recovery.'' | |
| According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the | |
| Biden stimulus plan would boost United States output by 5 | |
| percent over 3 years. Last year, the United States economy | |
| shrank by the largest amount since 1946. Around 1.2 million | |
| small businesses closed between February and June of last year, | |
| and communities of color continue to be the very hardest hit. | |
| According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, of all job losses | |
| in December where jobs were held by women, women of color | |
| suffered the most job losses. These are not statistics that | |
| warrant a wait-and-see approach. These realities demand urgent | |
| action. They demand the American Rescue Plan. | |
| This committee has played and will continue to play an | |
| essential role in providing much of this relief. The | |
| Administration needs critical funding to prioritize the | |
| development and production of desperately-needed medical | |
| supplies under the Defense Production Act (DPA). Renters need | |
| additional assistance, including emergency housing vouchers, to | |
| ensure that people in rural and suburban and urban communities | |
| can remain stably housed. More funding is needed for persons | |
| experiencing homelessness, who face even greater health risk as | |
| a result of the pandemic. We must also address the reality that | |
| homeowners across America face a foreclosure crisis if Congress | |
| does not step in to support modifications before the pandemic | |
| ends. | |
| And this committee will also need to come to the aid of | |
| businesses and their workers who are barely staying afloat, | |
| including small businesses, minority-owned businesses, and | |
| sectors hit hard, like the airlines. Finally, with new, more | |
| contagious, and potentially more deadly variants of the virus | |
| from the U.K., Brazil, and South Africa, all having now been | |
| detected right here in the United States, we need to mobilize | |
| the multilateral system and its institutions. And it is very, | |
| very clear that this pandemic cannot be defeated until it is | |
| defeated everywhere. And so, I look forward to hearing from our | |
| distinguished panel of witnesses on the need for relief, and | |
| the proposal that the Biden Administration has put forward. | |
| I will now recognize Congressman Hill, who will be standing | |
| in for our ranking member, Mr. McHenry, for an opening | |
| statement. Mr. McHenry has an emergency and cannot be with us | |
| right now. Mr. Hill, you are recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Hill. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you for | |
| convening this hearing today. | |
| Let's start with the facts. To date, Congress has provided | |
| $3.5 trillion to support the economy. This included direct | |
| payments to individuals, assistance for small businesses, | |
| rental assistance, and support for frontline workers, among | |
| many other strategies. This was a tremendous and often | |
| bipartisan effort that has provided a bridge for Americans | |
| reeling from this dual health and economic crisis. Now, thanks | |
| in large part to Operation Warp Speed and Congress' actions, | |
| vaccines are being distributed. To be clear, we are not out of | |
| the woods yet, but we are on the right path. | |
| Today, we are discussing what our economy needs to fully | |
| recover. I think the answer is clear: The best way to support | |
| the economy now is to reopen it safely. No amount of stimulus | |
| can replace open businesses, available jobs, and kids in the | |
| classroom. We should continue to be thoughtful and deliberate. | |
| I think we can all agree that the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, | |
| and Economic Security (CARES) Act was the right response at the | |
| right time. We were all facing an enemy that we knew nothing | |
| about. Since then, Congress has come together on five separate | |
| occasions to support families, individuals, workers, and small | |
| businesses. In fact, at the end of December, just over a month | |
| ago, we came together and put nearly $1 trillion in additional | |
| relief through the Congress, which was signed into law. This | |
| $900 billion package, money to be spent across our country, has | |
| yet to be spent. Just 1 month later, that money has not yet | |
| seen its full impact in our economy and for our families. | |
| Today, unlike 10 months ago, we have the benefit of real data, | |
| and the facts guide us in driving better policy outcomes. | |
| Last Tuesday, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that | |
| despite the surge in positivity rates throughout the summer and | |
| fall, States that were open, and open safely, had better | |
| employment rebounds than those States that were locked down. In | |
| fact, employment increased in 15 open States. California, in | |
| comparison, lost more than 52,000 jobs. Michigan lost more than | |
| 64,000 jobs. In my own home State of Arkansas, our unemployment | |
| rate fell to 4.2 percent in December, from the peak in May of | |
| 10.8 percent. Our tax revenues are up. | |
| What does the data tell us? It tells us that States can | |
| reopen safely. It tells us that if States aren't open, | |
| businesses cannot operate. If there are no businesses, there | |
| will be no jobs for individuals to come back to. Our focus | |
| should be on how best to safely reopen our economy. That means | |
| more testing and faster vaccine distribution to keep our | |
| communities healthy. It may mean more funding to ensure that | |
| frontline workers have the supplies they need to stay safe. At | |
| the same time, we need to make sure that additional funding | |
| will have an impact on Americans who need it the most. There | |
| are families and individuals who are hurting from the | |
| lockdowns. We should be targeting assistance to get them back | |
| into the workforce, not just creating more bureaucracy and | |
| throwing money at this critical problem. | |
| We should mirror the bipartisan compromise and serious | |
| legislating that went into the CARES Act and the other four | |
| bills that were enacted last year, and not spend time | |
| deliberating a partisan, wasteful, not targeted, $1.9 trillion | |
| stimulus bill. The data is pointing us towards what the economy | |
| needs. Now, let politics get out of the way and let us get to | |
| the work of providing the targeted help we need. | |
| Again, let me thank the Chair for holding this hearing. I | |
| yield back the balance of my time. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. And Members, I am | |
| so pleased that we have a President with a plan. | |
| I want to welcome today's distinguished witnesses to the | |
| committee: Clarence Anthony, CEO and executive director of the | |
| National League of Cities; Derrick Johnson, president and CEO | |
| of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored | |
| People (NAACP); Janet Murguia, president and CEO of UnidosUS; | |
| Dr. William Spriggs, the chief economist at the American | |
| Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations | |
| (AFL-CIO); and Dr. Michael Strain, an economist at the American | |
| Enterprise Institute. | |
| Each of you will have 5 minutes to summarize your | |
| testimony. You should be able to see a timer on your screen | |
| that will indicate how much time you have left, and a timer | |
| will go off at the end of your time. I would ask you to be | |
| mindful of the timer and quickly wrap up your testimony if you | |
| hear the timer, so that we can be respectful of both the | |
| witnesses' and the committee members' time. And without | |
| objection, your written statements will be made a part of the | |
| record. | |
| With that, Mr. Anthony, you are now recognized for 5 | |
| minutes to present your oral testimony. | |
| STATEMENT OF CLARENCE E. ANTHONY, CEO AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, | |
| NATIONAL LEAGUE OF CITIES (NLC) | |
| Mr. Anthony. Good morning. Thank you, Chairwoman Waters, | |
| Congressman Hill, and members of the committee. I am Clarence | |
| Anthony. I am CEO and executive director of the National League | |
| of Cities, and a former mayor of South Bay, Florida, for over | |
| 24 years. The National League of Cities is the nation's | |
| foremost resource and nonpartisan advocate for municipal | |
| governments and their leaders, representing 19,000 cities, | |
| towns, and villages, many in your districts. Today, I am | |
| speaking on behalf of all of those local governments that have | |
| gone above and beyond to overcome the COVID-19 emergency. | |
| Local government employees are truly on the front lines of | |
| enforcing measures that protect residents from catching and | |
| spreading COVID-19. Local community and economic development | |
| departments are stabilizing households and small businesses | |
| harmed by losses from the COVID-19 pandemic. Local elected | |
| officials are making painful budget cuts to preserve essential | |
| day-to-day operations that sustain cities as economic engines | |
| and places of opportunity. Residents are relying more than ever | |
| on the safety net programs that local governments are | |
| responsible for putting into action. | |
| We are grateful for the funding provided in prior emergency | |
| relief packages, but the fact remains that local budget | |
| revenues are far below normal collections. Municipal | |
| governments are alone facing a $90 billion shortfall on 1-year | |
| revenues. This does not include the losses facing County, | |
| State, Tribal, or Territory Governments. NLC supports the $350 | |
| billion for emergency intergovernmental relief. | |
| Local leaders in your district will tell you this is not a | |
| bailout. Our local communities need a partnership, and we are | |
| fighting every day. Labor market data shows that local | |
| governments are still cutting jobs to offset revenue losses and | |
| unexpected expenses related to COVID-19. The December job | |
| reports from the Bureau of Labor Statistics state that 32,000 | |
| jobs have been cut. Public sector employment is down by more | |
| than 1 million jobs, compared to February 2020. | |
| Emergency funding has provided aid to the private sector, | |
| to residents harmed by COVID. SBA Treasury programs provided | |
| businesses with access to credit. HUD programs provided funding | |
| to help homeless residents, renters, and small businesses. The | |
| role of local government in these programs is to connect | |
| emergency resources to those in need, and that required drawing | |
| up new programs lifting up our residents through creating | |
| operations that help small and minority-owned businesses | |
| overcome obstacles. | |
| There is no question that additional housing stability is | |
| important, and the National League of Cities (NLC) has | |
| reflected that in our Homeward Bound programs that focus on job | |
| security and health. As a result, however, of these layoffs and | |
| operation decline, many local governments are less able to | |
| enact this kind of guidance that they are immediately | |
| responsible for after the CARES Act was passed. The new | |
| Emergency Rental Assistance Program is a reasonable response to | |
| the emerging economy-killing eviction cliff. | |
| Roughly 1 out of every 5 people is in a rental in America. | |
| Forty million people are at risk. Local governments are the | |
| ones that implement these initiatives. We need support. Local | |
| governments are running out of ways to paper over dramatic | |
| losses, and even when that happens, declines will not stop the | |
| new programs from needing to be implemented. | |
| So, we are asking that these principles ensure that local | |
| governments are connected and engaged in the next bill: one, | |
| emergency funding should be fair and appropriate for each and | |
| every local government, with no minimum population threshold | |
| for eligibility; two, allocations of aid should be built on | |
| familiar and proven government revenue-sharing programs like | |
| the Community Development Block Grants; three, funding should | |
| be separate for States, counties, and municipalities; and four, | |
| eligible expenditures should be targeted to the widespread | |
| health and economic consequences of COVID-19, including | |
| unavoidable revenue shortfall. | |
| In conclusion, on Monday CBO warned that unemployment is | |
| likely, so we are asking for our shot as local governments. | |
| Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| [The prepared statement of Mr. Anthony can be found on page | |
| 70 of the appendix.] | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Anthony. Ms. | |
| Murguia, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to present your | |
| oral testimony. | |
| STATEMENT OF JANET MURGUIA, PRESIDENT AND CEO, UNIDOSUS | |
| Ms. Murguia. Good morning. Thank you, Chairwoman Waters and | |
| Ranking Member McHenry, for inviting me to testify today. My | |
| name is Janet Murguia, and I am the president and CEO of | |
| UnidosUS, the largest Hispanic civil rights and advocacy | |
| organization in the United States. For more than 50 years, and | |
| in partnership with our affiliate networks, we have worked to | |
| advance opportunities for Latino families across the country so | |
| they can achieve economic security and build wealth. Chairwoman | |
| Waters, thank you especially for leading this committee's work | |
| to address income inequality and racial wealth disparities. | |
| As I begin, I would note that inadequate recovery efforts | |
| from the last recession, when Latinos lost 66 percent of their | |
| wealth, contributed to the fragile economic status of the | |
| Latino community prior to the COVID-19 outbreak. As a result, a | |
| pre-pandemic 2020 poll found that most Latinos were already | |
| concerned about high housing costs, and said they struggled to | |
| make ends meet. | |
| And social, economic, and health disparities, coupled with | |
| systemic barriers to safety net assistance and relief, have | |
| disproportionately impacted Latinos and devastated our | |
| families. More than 70 percent of Hispanic workers are | |
| essential workers, which is why we are twice as likely to get | |
| sick and 3 times as likely to die from COVID-19. | |
| Latinos were also deeply impacted by job losses in hard-hit | |
| industries like hospitality, including those that did not allow | |
| telework, and Latino small businesses have struggled to stay | |
| open. Our polling shows that more than half of Latinos surveyed | |
| have lost job wages or businesses due to the pandemic, and | |
| these job and earnings losses put Latinos especially at risk of | |
| losing their homes to eviction and foreclosure. | |
| While the pandemic has placed financial pressure and strain | |
| on many Americans, the experience of Latinos in accessing | |
| Federal relief has been especially difficult, since many | |
| Hispanic immigrants in mixed-status families have been excluded | |
| from emergency Federal relief and aid. For example, the CARES | |
| Act excluded millions of mixed-status families, including more | |
| than 5 million children and spouses who are either U.S. | |
| citizens or green card holders, from stimulus payments. While a | |
| partial fix was enacted in December, millions of U.S. children | |
| and their families remain blocked from Federal relief. | |
| The President's American Rescue Plan is a huge improvement. | |
| Latino workers and their families will benefit from extended | |
| unemployment insurance, and housing protections and aid to | |
| prevent eviction. The plan's aid to State and local governments | |
| will help our local affiliated, community-based organizations | |
| and help them serve their hard-hit communities. But it is | |
| outrageous and immoral to continue denying aid to families and | |
| children in need during a national emergency simply because of | |
| their parents' immigration status, especially when they are | |
| experiencing hunger and food insecurity. So, Congress must | |
| include all of our neighbors and essential workers in emergency | |
| pandemic relief. | |
| We then would suggest some additions to the Biden plan, | |
| such as: ensure that HUD and Treasury assistance reaches the | |
| hardest-hit communities, including mixed-status families and | |
| immigrant workers; provide $700 million in support for housing | |
| counseling organizations to help homeowners and renters at risk | |
| of losing their homes; expand foreclosure protection, extending | |
| aid to all homeowners, and establish a homeowner assistance | |
| fund; set aside a portion of small business aid for impacted | |
| minority-owned business; and use the Community Reinvestment Act | |
| (CRA) to ensure that the hardest-hit communities can access | |
| available aid. | |
| A true American rescue plan is one that ends the cruel | |
| exclusion of families and includes everyone in relief. But to | |
| truly rebuild our economy better, we must also protect | |
| essential workers by finally updating our immigration system | |
| and providing a path to citizenship for immigrant workers and | |
| their families. We must do this now to stand up for the people | |
| who have been standing up for us, including through budget | |
| reconciliation if necessary. A real robust and lasting economic | |
| recovery depends on it. Thank you. | |
| [The prepared statement of Ms. Murguia can be found on page | |
| 77 of the appendix.] | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. Mr. Johnson, you | |
| are now recognized for 5 minutes to present your oral | |
| testimony. | |
| STATEMENT OF DERRICK JOHNSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NATIONAL | |
| ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF COLORED PEOPLE (NAACP) | |
| Mr. Johnson. Good morning, and thank you, Chairwoman | |
| Waters, for your leadership, and Ranking Member McHenry. Thank | |
| you for the invitation to testify on this timely, important | |
| topic: the need for additional support for COVID-19 relief. I | |
| am excited about your leadership, Chairwoman Waters, at this | |
| crucial time as we look forward to working with you in ensuring | |
| that our communities are protected from this unfortunate health | |
| crisis. On behalf of the million activists who make up the | |
| NAACP from across the country in 47 States and 2,200 units, | |
| NAACP is the nation's oldest civil rights organization, this | |
| month at 112-years-old. | |
| Much of what I want to talk about will highlight the need | |
| as we have observed it on the ground across the country. Before | |
| I do that, I do want to recognize: Representative Ayanna | |
| Pressley for helping us in December to highlight the need for | |
| student loan indebtedness; the new Chair of the Congressional | |
| Black Caucus and member of this committee, Representative | |
| Beatty, for using her platform to continue to amplify the call | |
| for justice, equity, and equality; and former CBC Chairman | |
| Cleaver, who has been sounding the alarm on testing and racial | |
| disparities in this moment. | |
| As we look at this current crisis in the stimulus packages, | |
| we really want to focus on critical workers, and many of those | |
| critical workers are straddled with student indebtedness. In | |
| fact, if you look at the student loan crisis, African Americans | |
| and Latinos are disproportionately impacted because many of | |
| them are first-generation college students, but in total we are | |
| looking at about $1.7 trillion in student loan indebtedness. | |
| If we consider discharging much of this, if not all, it can | |
| be seen as an economic stimulus. Much of the funds that are | |
| used to pay back these loans could infuse capital back into our | |
| economic system and caboose our GDP. In fact, there are tools | |
| that are currently in place to provide support for critical | |
| workers under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, | |
| where many of our citizens participate in ensuring that our | |
| society keeps moving. These are government workers, our | |
| teachers, and others who have to go to work every day to ensure | |
| that we are provided the necessary resources for which our tax | |
| dollars pay. | |
| Far too many of them are underemployed and over-indebted | |
| because of the student loan burden. The tools in the toolbox | |
| through the automatic discharge after 10 years could be | |
| accelerated and it could be immediate. We celebrate the | |
| forbearance that the new Administration just called for, but if | |
| we really look closely at how to stimulate our economy, this is | |
| an effective tool. We have given more away in tax breaks and | |
| other stimulus to corporations. In fact, if you look at the | |
| ongoing tax break that was provided over the last 4 years on | |
| top of the stimulus packages for corporations, it more than | |
| doubled the amount of student loan indebtedness. | |
| It is the right thing to do in this moment of crisis. It is | |
| a way to boost our economy, and it is a way to ensure that | |
| those individuals who are on the front line providing support | |
| for us, and municipal governments and State governments, and | |
| our teachers in the classrooms will be cared for in ways in | |
| which it could pay dividends for our economy. | |
| In Houston, as we begin to look at the eviction crisis, | |
| many people have to be on the front lines to prevent evictions | |
| as a result of some of the deadlines about to expire. We | |
| partner with BeyGOOD, Beyonce's group and we created a program, | |
| and we were overwhelmed with the need of individuals who are on | |
| the verge of being evicted. In fact, it was so overwhelming | |
| that we had to shut down the program within 48 hours, because | |
| 37,000 families, over 50,000 applications, came in so quickly | |
| that we had to shut the program down. | |
| It is clear that there is a crisis. This committee can | |
| continue to hold businesses and banks accountable to ensure | |
| that in this moment of economic transition, evictions are | |
| stalled and we are able to put our economy right, and people | |
| can fully participate. And when you look at the vaccine and the | |
| disparity in which the vaccines are being deployed, we have to | |
| make sure those who are most impacted are provided with the | |
| necessary support. | |
| This COVID moment has impacted African Americans to where 1 | |
| out of 660 Black persons in this country are dying because of | |
| COVID, and the vaccine deployment has not been equitable. In | |
| the City of New York, we found that high-wealth individuals | |
| were going to Latino communities to get the vaccines, although | |
| the vaccines were placed there for the Latino community to | |
| receive. We have to have a better approach of deploying the | |
| vaccine. So, when we look-- | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Your time has | |
| expired. | |
| Mr. Johnson. Thank you. | |
| [The prepared statement of Mr. Johnson can be found on page | |
| 74 of the appendix.] | |
| Chairwoman Waters. And let me just take a moment to thank | |
| Mr. Anthony and Ms. Murguia for their very fine testimony. Dr. | |
| Spriggs, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to present your | |
| oral testimony. | |
| STATEMENT OF WILLIAM E. SPRIGGS, CHIEF ECONOMIST, THE AMERICAN | |
| FEDERATION OF LABOR AND CONGRESS OF INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATIONS | |
| (AFL-CIO) | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you. Thank you, Chairwoman Waters. I | |
| appreciate your leadership and this opportunity to speak to | |
| your committee on the issues of our nation's crisis. I am happy | |
| to offer this testimony on behalf of the AFL-CIO, America's | |
| house of labor, representing the working people of the United | |
| States, and based on my expertise as a professor in Howard | |
| University's Department of Economics. | |
| My testimony today will discuss the immediate challenge our | |
| nation faces of a severely damaged labor market and the need to | |
| conduct an all-out, coordinated Federal, State, and local | |
| Government fight to tame the COVID virus. We will need to have | |
| in place a full fiscal response to coordinate with current | |
| monetary policy to ensure our economy can emerge with a robust | |
| and sustainable growth path by addressing inequality. That | |
| means we need policies to address the damage of the virus to | |
| economic activity, ensuring all of our efforts to reduce the | |
| incidence of the virus, and to regain American leadership | |
| globally to heal the global economy as the United States did at | |
| the end of World War II. | |
| Despite improvements since April 2020, when our nation lost | |
| the greatest number of payroll positions since World War II, | |
| through December, we were still down 9.8 million payroll | |
| positions since February 2014. In March, Congress acted rapidly | |
| to pass several key economic supports, but the efficacy of | |
| those policies began to show weakening and waning job gains | |
| since July, after key provisions, like the $600 in additional | |
| weekly unemployment compensation, phased out, so in December, | |
| we were again losing jobs. Today, our labor market is missing | |
| almost 1.8 million more jobs from its peak than we stood at the | |
| depth of the Great Recession in September 2010, compared to | |
| that labor market's peak in January of 2008. | |
| Despite congressional efforts to put substantial sums into | |
| the economy in the second quarter of last year to make up for | |
| lost jobs, slower business, and to help develop a vaccine, in | |
| the 4th quarter of last year, the economy grew at a | |
| significantly slower rate than the 3rd quarter, and we began | |
| this year with an economy that is smaller than it was in the | |
| 2nd quarter of 2018. This is a dire situation. Our situation is | |
| complicated because our job losses stem from a failure to | |
| control the spread of the virus. | |
| Individuals living in high-income areas have drastically | |
| reduced their consumption of services, especially personal | |
| services--restaurants, brick and mortar retail consumption, and | |
| travel--in response to the prevalence of the virus, not in | |
| response to health orders to limit business activity, and this | |
| is a vital portion of consumption that is shrinking our | |
| economy. | |
| To tackle the source of our economy's woes, we need a | |
| coordinated effort by the Federal Government with State and | |
| local government partners, but State and local employment | |
| levels are depleted. Through December, we had 373,000 fewer | |
| State Government workers and a little more than 1 million fewer | |
| local government workers. We cannot bring all of the public | |
| resources to bear on this crucial fight with so many fewer | |
| public sector workers. To get ahead of this rapid virus, we | |
| need congressional action now, because we failed in December to | |
| have the money for State and local workforces. | |
| It is important to also look at the important things that | |
| were missing. We need the $400 in unemployment compensation | |
| added back that was key to what was happening in the 3rd | |
| quarter recovery. We need the pandemic relief payments of | |
| $1,400 because that was key for what was making the economy | |
| expand in the 3rd quarter. And we need to increase the Federal | |
| minimum wage to ensure that we will have wage growth coming out | |
| of this recovery and to ensure racial equity as wages recover. | |
| We know that there will be excess monopsony power that will get | |
| in the way of restoring the wage growth that we need for our | |
| economy to recover. | |
| We need to have the United States back special drawing | |
| rights at the International Monetary Fund (IMF) so that all | |
| world governments will be our partner in defeating this virus. | |
| No one will be safe until all countries can win this war. | |
| [The prepared statement of Dr. Spriggs can be found on page | |
| 88 of the appendix.] | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you, Dr. Spriggs. Dr. Strain, you | |
| are now recognized for 5 minutes to present your oral | |
| testimony. | |
| STATEMENT OF MICHAEL R. STRAIN, ECONOMIST, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE | |
| INSTITUTE | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Chairwoman Waters and Ranking Member | |
| McHenry for the invitation to testify today. And thank you, | |
| Congressman Hill and members of the committee. It is an honor | |
| to be here. | |
| Two ways to assess the need for economic support are top | |
| down and bottom up. The top-down approach attempts to assess | |
| the amount by which the economy is underperforming and | |
| determine how much government spending would be required to | |
| bring the level of economic activity back to where it should | |
| be. More precisely, the quantity of goods and services that | |
| could be sustainably produced given the economy's underlying | |
| technology and labor and capital resources is determined and | |
| compared to the economy's actual production. The difference | |
| between the economy's underlying potential and actual | |
| performance is called the output gap. The size of the output | |
| gap can be used to determine the appropriate size of an | |
| economic stimulus package. | |
| Alternatively, Congress can take a bottom-up approach. This | |
| way of crafting economic support would pay less attention to | |
| the size of the output gap and more to the specific needs | |
| facing the economy. Today, those needs clearly involve | |
| increasing the nation's capacity to distribute the vaccine and | |
| to test people for COVID-19. Of course, in practice, applying | |
| both a top-down and bottom-up approach makes the most sense, | |
| but judged by either criteria, President Biden's proposed $1.9 | |
| trillion American Rescue Plan is too large and too wide in | |
| scope. | |
| According to my calculations based on Congressional Budget | |
| Office (CBO) data, the 2021 output gap will be around $420 | |
| billion. This calculation includes the effects of the $900 | |
| billion law Congress passed just 6 weeks ago. The policy debate | |
| seems to have all but forgotten that Congress appropriated | |
| around $900 billion just a month and a half ago, but factoring | |
| that in, the output gap will be around $420 billion for the | |
| current year. From a macroeconomic top-down perspective, the | |
| President's proposal would fill the 2021 output gap several | |
| times. | |
| It is commonly argued that the risk from spending too | |
| little is larger than the risk for spending too much. I agree, | |
| but this is not the same as arguing that the size of an | |
| additional stimulus package should be untethered to estimates | |
| of the underlying economic need. Any assessment of the right | |
| size for another stimulus should start with a good estimate of | |
| the output gap, and given the [inaudible] calculating that gap | |
| and the balance of risks, it is prudent to err on the side of a | |
| slightly larger package. | |
| The future paths of gross domestic product to the output | |
| gap and consumer prices are very uncertain. Congress should | |
| recognize the many risks from spending too much and | |
| [inaudible]. From this macroeconomic perspective, the | |
| President's $1.9 trillion proposal is clearly too large. While | |
| the proposal contains several important components that | |
| Congress should enact, from a bottom-up microeconomic | |
| perspective, many major components of the plan are either | |
| unnecessary or will hold the recovery back. | |
| For example, direct checks to households earning a six- | |
| figure incomes that have not experienced employment loss are an | |
| unnecessary and imprudent use of government spending. The | |
| proposed $400 Federal supplement through September to standard | |
| State-provided unemployment insurance benefits would prolong | |
| the period of labor market weakness by incentivizing unemployed | |
| workers to remain unemployed. Raising the Federal minimum wage | |
| to $15 an hour [inaudible] workers in many States. As a moral | |
| proposition, a bill that would destroy jobs for low-wage | |
| workers while handing out checks to employed upper-middle-class | |
| households is deeply problematic. | |
| A bill that was more focused and that did not contain these | |
| harmful or unnecessary provisions would also be more aligned | |
| with the overall macroeconomic need and would better address | |
| our specific economic challenges. A bill that provided adequate | |
| funding for vaccine distribution to strengthen the social | |
| safety net and provide needed relief to State and local | |
| governments would be reasonable and advisable. It would cost | |
| under $750 billion, would be focused on current economic and | |
| social need, [inaudible] gap. Thank you. | |
| [The prepared statement of Dr. Strain can be found on page | |
| 111 of the appendix.] | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you, Dr. Strain. I now recognize | |
| myself for 5 minutes for questions. | |
| This is the first week of Black History Month. While there | |
| is so much to celebrate and honor, we know that this pandemic | |
| has taken a particular toll on both renters and homeowners of | |
| color. According to the latest Census data, renters and | |
| homeowners of color are significantly more likely to be behind | |
| in paying their rent or mortgage, putting them at greater risk | |
| of eviction and foreclosure. Before the start of the CDC's | |
| eviction order, researchers estimated that up to 40 million | |
| renters could face eviction. More recently, Moody's Analytics | |
| estimated that renters owe more than $57 billion in back rent, | |
| utilities, and additional fees. In the second quarter of 2020, | |
| mortgage arrears totaled an estimated $16.3 million. | |
| Since the pandemic began, it has been my top priority to | |
| ensure that families remain in their homes, and last year, I | |
| successfully sought to secure $25 billion in emergency rental | |
| assistance. But as I have said, that was just the first step, | |
| and there is much more work to be done, and now is the time to | |
| do it. | |
| Mr. Spriggs, without taking further action to protect | |
| renters and homeowners, we could see a wave of foreclosures and | |
| evictions in 2021. Can you tell us, based on your research, how | |
| such a wave of evictions and foreclosures would impact the | |
| American economy, both in the short term and the long term? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you, Chairwoman Waters. Yes, this is a | |
| vital problem to address, and thank you for your leadership on | |
| this issue. It will complicate things, which is why we have the | |
| urgency of acting now. People, as you mentioned, are in | |
| arrears. The moratorium only means they will not be evicted | |
| now, and the $600 that they received at the beginning of | |
| January has already been spent because they got behind from the | |
| period of July through December, when Congress refused to | |
| respond to the Health and Economic Recovery Omnibus Emergency | |
| Solutions (HEROES) Act that the House passed, thanks to the | |
| leadership. | |
| Those dollars are gone. Those households are in desperate | |
| need of assistance and rental assistance so that when we get | |
| out of this situation, they will be able to stay in their | |
| homes. If we allow people to become homeless, we will have | |
| scarring that we cannot solve. It will be more expensive. This | |
| is not the time to be penny wise and pound foolish because | |
| people are already behind, and that is why we must do this now. | |
| We do not have months to wait. We already know their situation. | |
| We need to act now. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Mr. Johnson and Ms. Murguia, can you | |
| tell us about the current housing instability that Black and | |
| Latinx communities are experiencing across the country, and how | |
| it compounds existing socioeconomic inequities? | |
| How can resources, like emergency rental assistance or | |
| housing vouchers, help stabilize the hardest-hit communities? | |
| Thank you. | |
| Mr. Johnson. Sure. At the NAACP, we tried to provide some | |
| support. We opened up a portal to help home renters. Within 48 | |
| hours, our system crashed because we had over 37,000 people | |
| apply, literally. That is on top of the many workers, | |
| particularly in the southern States, who are underpaid, who | |
| work in critical areas, and they are making the necessary | |
| support, in addition to the exposure that they are bringing | |
| home to their families in this COVID moment. Your actions and | |
| your efforts could help support those families to become sturdy | |
| in this moment as we rebuild our economy. | |
| Many southern States underpay their State and local | |
| workers, including teachers. A lot of these teachers are home | |
| renters. So, we are asking teachers under economic stress and | |
| duress to teach our young people for a future when they cannot | |
| be in a comfortable position in this present. Your assistance | |
| is desperately needed in this moment. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. My time has | |
| expired. I now recognize Mr. Hill for 5 minutes of questions. | |
| Mr. Hill. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I thank our | |
| witnesses for the really useful information. | |
| Something that is so important to Congress, particularly | |
| for Republicans, is assessing, after nearly $4 trillion in | |
| appropriated funds plus the strong support of the Federal | |
| Reserve System during 2020, how much more targeted relief and, | |
| directly, where is our challenge? So Dr. Strain, I really | |
| appreciated you sort of assessing that output gap issue, though | |
| when you look at the underlying potential and you look at the | |
| actual performance and find that gap, based on CBO's, something | |
| that the Congress studies quite closely, long-term economic | |
| analysis that was released on Monday, is there an appropriate | |
| spectrum of stimulus that Congress should consider? In other | |
| words, is President Biden's proposal of $1.9 trillion right, or | |
| should it be something smaller? Reiterate that point. Let me | |
| give you a minute to talk about that. | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. It is really an | |
| excellent question. The policy debate seems to have forgotten | |
| that Congress just appropriated $900 billion 6 weeks ago, and | |
| that money hasn't fully been spent. It is still making its way | |
| through the system, and it is going to have a big impact on the | |
| economy. That is a larger appropriation than Congress | |
| appropriated following the Great Recession that began with the | |
| 2008 financial crisis. | |
| There is a risk of Congress appropriating more money than | |
| the economy needs and pushing the economy above its sustainable | |
| level of production. This risk is amplified by significant | |
| growth in the money supply. It is amplified by supply chain | |
| disruptions. It is amplified by diminishments and the | |
| productive capacity of the economy. It is amplified by the fact | |
| that households are sitting on over $1 trillion of unspent | |
| savings. And it is amplified by the possibility that when the | |
| vaccines are in wide distribution in the second half of the | |
| year, households are going to go on a spending spree. | |
| Congress is correct, I think, to be thinking about the | |
| economic need, but that needs to be scaled to reflect both the | |
| risks of doing too little and the risks of doing too much, and | |
| there are real risks of doing too much. | |
| Mr. Hill. Thank you. That is something we talked about in | |
| the Congressional Oversight Commission of the CARES Act with | |
| the Federal Reserve and the Treasury, precisely that, | |
| particularly as it relates to State and local governments, | |
| because we don't always count that a great deal of that $4 | |
| trillion in appropriated money goes to support our State and | |
| local government activities. Thank you for that. | |
| I want to switch subjects briefly. There has been reference | |
| to the minimum wage here. I wonder if you agree with former | |
| economic adviser to President Clinton and President Obama, | |
| Larry Summers, when he says that more Economic Impact Payment | |
| (EIP) is not the best use of the economic stimulus at this | |
| time. He even cites that it is not effective, and you just | |
| referenced that there is $1 trillion out there in additional | |
| unspent savings. Can you address that for me? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes. I think that almost any use of half a | |
| trillion dollars would be better than giving checks to | |
| households who are in six-figure incomes and who haven't | |
| suffered any employment loss. More than that, I think a bill | |
| that both would increase the Federal minimum wage to $15 an | |
| hour, and that gives checks to households who earn six-figure | |
| incomes and haven't experienced unemployment loss, really has | |
| some moral problems as well. The President's plan would destroy | |
| low-wage jobs while boosting middle-class incomes. I don't | |
| think that is what Congress should be doing, particularly in a | |
| period of labor market weakness. | |
| Mr. Hill. Thank you, Dr. Strain. Let me say that all of | |
| this combined, this work, is over 20 percent of GDP, which is a | |
| tremendous amount of stimulus. Mr. Spriggs referenced the | |
| support for our poor, struggling countries in the world facing | |
| the pandemic, and referenced the use of special drawing rights | |
| from the International Monetary Fund. Madam Chairwoman, I would | |
| like to submit my op-ed in the Wall Street Journal for the | |
| record, with your permission. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Without objection, it is so ordered. | |
| And the gentleman's time has expired. | |
| Mr. Hill. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. We will move on. The gentleman from | |
| California, Mr. Sherman, who is also the Chair of our | |
| Subcommittee on Investor Protection, Entrepreneurship, and | |
| Capital Markets, is now recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Sherman. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. As I pointed out | |
| in the Democratic Caucus, Madam Chairwoman, you preside as Full | |
| Committee Chair over a committee today of Full Committee | |
| Chairs. I will be the only one out of the first six Democratic | |
| questioners who does not preside over, of course, our Financial | |
| Services Committee, the House Oversight and Reform Committee, | |
| the House Small Business Committee, the House Foreign Affairs | |
| Committee, or the House Agriculture Committee. | |
| Madam Chairwoman, I thank you for mentioning that we are | |
| not safe until we defeat this disease everywhere. There are | |
| those who are focusing only, and we should focus on, | |
| vaccinating all Americans, but until all 7 billion-plus people | |
| in the world are vaccinated, we haven't met our moral | |
| responsibility. The world economy is still suffering from this | |
| disease, but perhaps most importantly, there are billions and | |
| billions of people outside the U.S. who can be infected. That | |
| is where the disease will replicate. Whenever it replicates, it | |
| mutates, and some of those mutations can lead to more virulence | |
| and more contagious disease, and perhaps worst of all, a | |
| version of this disease that cannot be dealt with by the | |
| vaccines we have developed. | |
| Speaking of vaccines, we did a great job in this country of | |
| developing three vaccines, but we initially were throwing away | |
| Pfizer vaccines after five dosages came out of a bottle that | |
| held almost seven dosages. We threw it away due to the FDA. | |
| Now, we are still throwing away vaccine when we could get half | |
| a dose out of one bottle and a half out of another. We are | |
| manufacturing the vaccine as quickly as we can in the factories | |
| of the company that invented it, but no company has licensed | |
| one of its competitors to create vaccine in their own factory. | |
| And we have just begun testing lower dosages to see their | |
| effectiveness, although the bulk of available medical science | |
| shows that much lower dosages would be effective, particularly | |
| in those under age 55. We have started those studies 8 months | |
| late. | |
| I want to thank Mr. Anthony for being here and for pointing | |
| out that our municipalities are losing about $90 billion in | |
| revenue, that we have a million public sector jobs, and I know | |
| there is a study from the Economic Policy Institute that | |
| estimates that by the end of this year, we could be losing 5.3 | |
| million public sector jobs. Now, that is, of course, a problem | |
| for the person who loses their job. It is bad for the economy | |
| in that those people aren't able to spend. But I want to focus | |
| on the services we lose when we don't have those people working | |
| for us. Looking at Los Angeles as one municipality, it spends | |
| roughly one-third of the money, more than one-third on public | |
| safety, so using that as an example, we are looking at $30 | |
| billion less spent for public safety. | |
| So my question, Mr. Anthony, is, if someone in Congress | |
| votes against providing revenue to municipalities, are they, in | |
| effect, voting to defund our police, because obviously any city | |
| that spends a third of its money on public safety, and my city | |
| does and most cities do, is going to have to make cuts in all | |
| of its functions. And if those cuts are pro rata, we are | |
| looking at a $30 billion dollar defunding of our police. Is | |
| that a real, practical effect of voting against this bill? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Congressman, thank you so much for that | |
| question. Local governments have to balance their budgets, and | |
| as Congressman Cleaver, a former mayor, knows very well, we | |
| will have to look at all of our programs, including our | |
| permitting process, and our housing programs. And, in fact, we | |
| will have to look at our public safety, fire and police, if we | |
| don't get additional funding, because it is essential that we | |
| balance our budget. We are not like other levels of government, | |
| so we will have to look at that, and I believe that would | |
| probably be a difficult thing for us to do, but we would have | |
| to look at all of the programs. | |
| Mr. Sherman. I would hope that those who vote against this | |
| bill will go to the House Floor and say that they are in favor | |
| of defunding those municipal services and that they stand by | |
| the votes to defund the police. I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentlewoman | |
| from Missouri, Mrs. Wagner, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mrs. Wagner. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I thank our | |
| witnesses for being with us today. | |
| I am going to get straight to it, and I would like folks to | |
| keep their answers as brief as possible. | |
| Dr. Strain, in early March, economic data directly pointed | |
| to the need for congressional action to support the economy, | |
| and by the end of the summer, our economy had stabilized, but | |
| small businesses and their hard-working employees needed | |
| additional support as they continued to face lockdown measures. | |
| Congress acted and provided approximately $3.5 trillion in | |
| response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and in the late fall, | |
| economic data indicated a downward trend. | |
| In December, Congress, again, acted to provide relief. | |
| Today, I am still hearing daily from my constituents who have | |
| yet to receive their stimulus checks or who have been unable to | |
| apply for the next round of Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) | |
| or Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) loans. If my | |
| constituents haven't even gotten access yet to the funds we | |
| provided in December, the nearly trillion dollars, $900 | |
| billion, how can we expect that useful economic data exists | |
| about whether or not another new round of relief funding is | |
| even required? | |
| Dr. Strain, do you agree that Congress should rely on | |
| quality economic data to identify the weak points in fiscal | |
| relief efforts? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, of course. I agree with that, and I think | |
| that there have been some problems in getting CARES Act funds | |
| to the households and businesses who need them. The | |
| overwhelming majority of the time, those processes work, but | |
| there are times when they haven't. And we do know that | |
| households have received checks. We know that unemployed | |
| workers have received unemployment benefits. We know that | |
| businesses have received PPP. But those processes haven't been | |
| perfect, I agree with you. | |
| Mrs. Wagner. The problem here is we are not really getting | |
| quality economic data to identify, I think, the weak points in | |
| our fiscal relief efforts. | |
| Other witnesses today have focused on the positive impacts | |
| of further economic relief, but data shows that there can be | |
| negative outcomes, as well, from excessive and mostly | |
| untargeted stimulus spending. | |
| Can you please address what specific negative economic | |
| impacts may occur, should too much untargeted stimulus be | |
| placed into the economy, Dr. Strain? | |
| Mr. Strain. There is a risk of the economy overheating. | |
| There is a risk of economic demand outpacing growth and | |
| economic supply, which can lead to price inflation. That risk, | |
| I think, is much more concerning in the second half of this | |
| year when people are vaccinated, and they are out there | |
| spending money. | |
| Mrs. Wagner. The Penn Wharton budget model yesterday | |
| released a study estimating that nearly three-quarters of | |
| economic stimulus checks will go toward savings and will not be | |
| used to stimulate the economy. | |
| Are you able to quickly address this study and its results? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, as a general matter, I think the evidence | |
| suggests that if you look at households with income above, say, | |
| $75,000, they save the overwhelming majority of the checks they | |
| receive, and that savings is kind of a double-edged sword, | |
| because it reduces concern about economic overheating, but it | |
| amplifies concern about Congress prudently spending money. | |
| There is just no reason, in my view, for Congress to write | |
| checks to six-figure households who haven't suffered any | |
| employment loss so they can pay down credit card bills or make | |
| advance payments on other debts. | |
| Mrs. Wagner. It is certainly not stimulating the economy. | |
| And I want to make the point clear and reiterate again that | |
| currently, there is more than $1 trillion of previously-enacted | |
| stimulus funding remaining to be spent. These remaining funds | |
| include: SBA's PPP program, $280 million; health spending, $239 | |
| billion; EIDL loans, $172 billion; unemployment insurance | |
| expansion, $172 billion; education funding, $59 billion; State | |
| and local aid, $58 billion; stimulus checks, $52 billion; food | |
| stamps, $33 billion; Childcare and Development Block Grants, | |
| $10 billion; and agriculture, $29 billion. | |
| Should Congress see positively where more targeted support | |
| is needed before passing another large stimulus package, that | |
| is my main concern here. | |
| I believe I am out of time, and I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Yes, the gentlewoman's time has expired. | |
| I now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Meeks, who | |
| is also the chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you to | |
| all of the witnesses for your testimony today. | |
| I am going to start out with Mr. Anthony. I heard Mr. Hill | |
| state that essentially, we faced an enemy we knew nothing about | |
| in the beginning. And I know that my State of New York was one | |
| of the hardest-hit States first, and it seemed to me at that | |
| particular point, the then-President of the United States | |
| basically underplayed what should and what could be done at | |
| that particular time, as well as aid to States, I know to New | |
| York and to States that were initially hit. | |
| So, my question is, if you had a State like New York, which | |
| was hit at a time when no one knew what the pandemic was and | |
| how to deal with it, and the States had to take on that burden | |
| themselves, can you speak to the budgetary needs of the first- | |
| hit States that now need this money, as far as aid to cities | |
| and States, as far as them being able to benefit from already, | |
| and other States learning from them and the practices that they | |
| had to undergo, being one of those first States and earlier | |
| States hit? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Yes. Thank you very much, Congressman Meeks, | |
| for that question. | |
| All of us have indicated that this is a pandemic that none | |
| of us was prepared for, and so when we received the CARES Act, | |
| as Congress knows, those first dollars went to States and | |
| cities with populations of 500,000 or more. And what local | |
| governments under 500,000 had to do was to go begging State | |
| Governors and others for those dollars to address the problems | |
| that they were facing in terms of the implementation of the | |
| response. | |
| Cities, the mayors, the councilmembers, rural cities, small | |
| and large cities, as you said, Congressman Meeks, as well as | |
| States, had to put an infrastructure system together. We did, | |
| but yet, we spent money at the city level that we did not have, | |
| to respond to the needs, and now we are at $90 billion, | |
| estimated, that we have lost, plus all of the employees, | |
| 32,000, up to a million employees, we have had to lose, because | |
| we don't have the reserves, we don't have the budget dollars. | |
| So, we are just asking that $350 billion be provided to | |
| State and local governments to continue helping America return | |
| to creativity and jobs and recovery. So, that is the bottom | |
| line. We weren't prepared. America wasn't prepared, but we want | |
| some additional dollars. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you for that. | |
| And Dr. Spriggs, many economists have argued that our | |
| recovery from the 2008 financial crisis was so slow and drawn | |
| out because we did too little with respect to economic | |
| stimulus; accordingly, certain communities were | |
| disproportionately impacted and lost wealth unnecessarily. So, | |
| in your opinion, what is riskier, doing too little by way of | |
| stimulus or doing too much? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. It is far riskier in this situation that we do | |
| too little. We must think big. | |
| The fear of inflation that we heard about, that will occur | |
| if we don't do enough. Because if we don't keep workers intact | |
| and whole so that their employers can find them, if we let | |
| workers become homeless, it will be harder to reconnect workers | |
| and reignite the economy. | |
| We have to take care of the workers who are most directly | |
| impacted now with adequate support for their rent, adequate | |
| support for their income, adequate support for those who fall | |
| through the cracks because their unemployment insurance needs | |
| drastic modernization. | |
| So, my fear is not that we are going to do too much, it is | |
| that we will do too little, and the outcome will be that it | |
| will be too difficult to put our labor market back together. | |
| Mr. Meeks. Thank you so much. | |
| I am out of time, so I will yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you so very much, Chairman Meeks. | |
| The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Posey, is recognized for 5 | |
| minutes. | |
| Mr. Posey. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and Mr. Ranking | |
| Member. It is good to be back here on the Financial Services | |
| Committee again in this new Congress, and thank you for holding | |
| this hearing today. | |
| The events of last year have been like nothing we have ever | |
| experienced in our lifetimes. The pandemic has brought | |
| intolerable suffering and lasting economic harm. | |
| In this time of pain, Congress has to help so many | |
| Americans, and Congress has enacted over $3.5 trillion in | |
| relief for people who, through no fault of their own, faced | |
| unemployment, shutdowns, and the inability to pay rent, put | |
| food on the table, and hold their businesses together. | |
| I know all of the Members have worked very hard to help | |
| people access COVID relief programs, and I am proud to be able | |
| to help my constituents figure it out. But as I have said, we | |
| have spent $3.5 trillion on COVID relief since last spring. | |
| During Fiscal Year 2020, our deficit was $3.1 trillion. Since | |
| October 2019, the Federal debt held by the Federal Reserve has | |
| grown from $2.4 trillion to nearly $4.9 trillion by the end of | |
| the third quarter of last year. | |
| That means that during this period, the Fed monetized about | |
| $2.5 trillion of added debt spending. We have been financing up | |
| to two-thirds of our debt by running printing presses. Since | |
| new relief spending will come at the expense of borrowing money | |
| from the Fed, I support proposals to moderate the next round | |
| and target such spending on families and workers who need it. | |
| I am particularly concerned about initiatives to provide | |
| extraordinary assistance to State and local governments, and I | |
| would like to ask Dr. Strain if it would be fair to replace | |
| COVID-19-related revenue losses of all of the States, dollar- | |
| for-dollar? Wouldn't it be unfair to the States that have a | |
| more balanced approach to government and its size? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. | |
| I think that it is appropriate for Congress to help State | |
| and local governments with revenue losses, but that help should | |
| be tied to pandemic-related revenue losses. So, Congress should | |
| not bail out States that misuse rainy-day funds. And Congress | |
| certainly shouldn't bail out mismanaged pension funds. | |
| But I think an amount close to $100 billion would be | |
| appropriate for Congress to give to States and localities, many | |
| of whom really are in need. My concern is that not doing so | |
| will act as a drag on the national economic recovery, because | |
| States and localities won't be able to hire back workers they | |
| have laid off. | |
| Mr. Posey. Thank you very much for that answer. | |
| How do you think we should go about determining the amount | |
| of the distribution? | |
| Mr. Strain. A formula could be created that looked at where | |
| State revenues were on the eve of the pandemic, and then | |
| attempted to estimate how States actually fared, relative to | |
| reasonable projections that, again, focused on pandemic losses. | |
| Some States wouldn't need much money at all. Some States | |
| have seen sales taxes recover, and have good income tax | |
| revenue. But there are some States, particularly States that | |
| rely a lot on tourism or that rely on more in-person services, | |
| that have taken a big hit as a consequence of the pandemic, and | |
| I think it is appropriate for Congress to help, if for no other | |
| reason than to support the overall national recovery. | |
| Mr. Posey. I agree, and I thank you for that. | |
| What do you think the major items should be and how should | |
| we estimate them, do you have any thoughts on that? | |
| Mr. Strain. Congress has already appropriated several | |
| hundred billion dollars to States and localities. Much of that | |
| funding is for specific programs, for example, for the Medicaid | |
| program. I think what is needed now is to give States more | |
| discretion so they can fill in the holes that are unique to | |
| their States and localities. | |
| Mr. Posey. Thank you very much. | |
| Madam Chairwoman, I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. | |
| The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott, who is also the | |
| chairman of the House Committee on Agriculture, is recognized | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Scott. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| This is a great hearing. Let me just sort of get right to | |
| the point here. | |
| Earlier on, Chairwoman Waters had asked me to kind of zero | |
| in on helping with the HEROES Act and the preceding stimulus | |
| packages on the housing relief for homeowners. And so, we put a | |
| package together that would get, I think initially, I forgot | |
| the figure now, but right now, that figure is at $25 billion | |
| for rental assistance. We started out with some higher numbers. | |
| We also wanted to get money in to help with utilities. So, | |
| right now, it is $5 billion for aid to help keep the water and | |
| the lights and the electricity on. | |
| But then when we got down to the mortgage assistance, we | |
| are still in a process of trying to get that in. So, Mr. | |
| Anthony, I want you to comment on how important it is. | |
| And we also have to understand one of the reasons is that | |
| Chairwoman Waters and I were here back during the time, and I | |
| think it was 2008 when they had the Wall Street breakdown, and | |
| we put the Hardest Hit Program, which dealt with keeping folks | |
| in their homes. This is critical, but right now, we don't have | |
| anything there. | |
| I wanted to share with the committee what the progress is | |
| on that right now. Our House Financial Services Committee, the | |
| Senate Banking Committee, and the White House right now are | |
| trying to get language in. | |
| So, I wanted to get your opinion, Mr. Anthony, because, | |
| even with some of the money that we have gotten in this area, | |
| even back in 2008, 2010, it went to the State to be able to | |
| implement it down to the cities to get that help. But I got | |
| inundated with calls, and still am, because there is a failure | |
| of the State working effectively with our cities in terms of | |
| getting the money to our cities. And as I understand it, part | |
| of that money was even left on the table because there was a | |
| deadline put on that money because of the population | |
| thresholds. Only three governmental units in Georgia were able | |
| to get that money--Cobb and Fulton Counties, and the City of | |
| Atlanta--because of that population threshold. | |
| So, my point is, give us an update on how tragic this is to | |
| get money down to give to the cities and towns. I represent 48 | |
| cities and towns and we are having difficulty in getting that. | |
| Can you tell us what we need to do to correct that problem | |
| and make sure we are getting that money out to our cities and | |
| municipalities? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Yes, thank you very much, Congressman Scott, | |
| for that question. | |
| The issue was that the dollars, again, went to cities of | |
| 500,000 or more population. And it was very challenging to get | |
| through the bureaucracy of working to get it down to the people | |
| from the State, and then to the county, and then to those | |
| cities. | |
| And some of these cities in some States, for example, Iowa, | |
| had no cities that qualified for direct funding. And then there | |
| are other States that may have had one. South Carolina had one | |
| city, Columbia, South Carolina. And we had other States, again, | |
| that may have had two cities. | |
| But the issue is, these cities, small and medium-sized | |
| cities, can, in fact, use the Community Development Block Grant | |
| formula to get direct funding so they can get it out and solve | |
| some of these issues. | |
| The rental assistance program had like 40 million people | |
| right now that are on the brink of eviction. So, I will stop | |
| there, Congressman. | |
| Mr. Scott. Yes, thank you very much. | |
| In my remaining seconds, I want everybody to know, also, | |
| that we have a food shortage. We have a hunger problem here. As | |
| chairman of the Agriculture Committee, I want you to know that | |
| we are going to be in a bit of a fight, because we want to | |
| raise the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) | |
| allocation to 20 percent, 15 to 20 percent. I feel very | |
| strongly we are going to need that, and I just hope everybody | |
| is ready to fight that battle. | |
| We will be having a hearing on it, on food insecurity in | |
| about 3 weeks. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman's time has expired. | |
| Mr. Scott. Thank you, ma'am. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. You're welcome. | |
| The gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Huizenga, is now | |
| recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Huizenga. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I appreciate | |
| that. And I am sorry if I am going back over a little territory | |
| here with Dr. Strain, but I want to just make sure that we are | |
| covering this. | |
| Dr. Strain, what actions do we need to take here that could | |
| best provide a boost to the economy? Is it direct payments? Is | |
| it additional unemployment insurance? Is it ultra-low interest | |
| rates, which we are seeing? What is it that would actually | |
| provide the biggest boost? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. | |
| I think the direct payments would be a mistake and an | |
| imprudent use of government spending. The unemployment benefits | |
| the President is proposing actually would hold the recovery | |
| back by keeping people unemployed for longer. | |
| The $15-an-hour minimum wage would significantly reduce | |
| employment opportunities. The Congressional Budget Office | |
| estimates that it would reduce employment by over 1 million | |
| jobs for low-wage workers. | |
| The best things that Congress can do in my view are to make | |
| sure that we can actually get vaccines into people's arms, to | |
| make sure that we can test people for COVID-19, to make sure | |
| that households that really are in need, vulnerable households | |
| that really have suffering, can get the help that they need, | |
| not households with six-figure incomes who haven't had any | |
| employment loss, and I think that it would be appropriate for | |
| Congress to help States and municipalities to the tune of | |
| around $100 billion. | |
| Mr. Huizenga. How would you do that for those families, how | |
| would you determine those families who do need that economic | |
| help and support, that safety net? | |
| Because I tend to agree with you, I think there are a | |
| number of families who are doing just fine, who are going to be | |
| receiving these payments. | |
| Mr. Strain. We could use the mechanisms that we already | |
| have in place to help low-income families. The food stamp | |
| program is very well-targeted. The Earned Income Tax Credit is | |
| very well-targeted on low-income households. Making the Child | |
| Tax Credit fully refundable for 2021, I think, would be | |
| perfectly appropriate. | |
| So, the existing programs that we have that target low- | |
| income households, I think, can be utilized in this instance. | |
| Mr. Huizenga. Okay. You brought up the unemployment | |
| insurance situation, and Dr. Spriggs from AFL-CIO, the last | |
| time he appeared here, I brought up the $600 payment, that | |
| kicker, that Federal kicker that was brought up. He had made | |
| the claim, 3 claims kind of spaced out, that that was the only | |
| way that people were able to pay their bills at that time. It | |
| may or may not be true. | |
| He then moved on to the fact that, and said that, I believe | |
| the term he used was this was about racial inequality or | |
| inequity that had been present in the economic system that we | |
| were dealing with. | |
| And then the third thing that he said was that employers, | |
| and this was the word he used, ``refused'' to keep their | |
| employees safe in work conditions. | |
| And so, Dr. Spriggs, I am just curious, do you stand by | |
| those statements now, a number of months later? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. I don't stand by your characterization of my | |
| words, but I stand by my words and I will put them in testimony | |
| again. | |
| Mr. Huizenga. I am not sure-- | |
| Mr. Spriggs. It is still the case that because of the | |
| racial wealth gap, Black and Latino households have no | |
| liquidity. And in a situation where they lose jobs-- | |
| Mr. Huizenga. Reclaiming my time-- | |
| Mr. Spriggs. --if you give them unemployment insurance-- | |
| Mr. Huizenga. Reclaiming my time-- | |
| Mr. Spriggs. --they will rapidly try and gather up | |
| precautionary savings-- | |
| Mr. Huizenga. Madam Chairwoman? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. --and the $600 is still necessary-- | |
| Mr. Huizenga. Can you-- | |
| Mr. Spriggs. --to make up for that inequality. | |
| Mr. Huizenga. Reclaiming my time, so, do you stand by the | |
| fact that employers refuse to keep their employees safe in the | |
| workspace? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. My statement didn't say that. It said that | |
| they were not safe. | |
| Mr. Huizenga. No, you-- | |
| Mr. Spriggs. My statement said that they were not safe and | |
| the evidence is clear. I provided in my written testimony that | |
| the disparities that are going on for low-income workers-- | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The time belongs to-- | |
| Mr. Spriggs. --specifically in California-- | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Mr. Spriggs, the time belongs to-- | |
| Mr. Davidson. A point of order, please, Madam Chairwoman? | |
| Chairwoman Waters. --Mr. Huizenga. | |
| The time belongs to Mr. Huizenga. Please continue, Mr. | |
| Huizenga. | |
| Mr. Hill. Can we put 10 seconds more back on the clock, | |
| Madam Chairwoman? | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Yes, we can. We will. No problem. | |
| Mr. Huizenga. Madam Chairwoman, that was the word that he | |
| used, ``refused,'' so he may or may not stand by those | |
| statements. | |
| But I am curious, if $600 a month wasn't enough, the AFL- | |
| CIO supported the last package, to my understanding, that had | |
| $300 through the end of March. It is now going to be $400 if | |
| the Democrats move ahead with the Biden-only plan through the | |
| end of the year. | |
| And I am curious, if $600 wasn't enough a couple of months | |
| ago, how in the world could the AFL-CIO support something that | |
| is less than that now? It seems to me, that is politics. | |
| So, Dr. Spriggs, I don't know if you care to respond, but | |
| now I will give you the time. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. | |
| The time has expired. | |
| The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green, who is also the | |
| chairman of our Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, | |
| is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Green. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I greatly | |
| appreciate your opening comments, because I would like to | |
| associate myself with this issue that assistance is something | |
| that is of paramount importance. We have circumstances wherein | |
| persons who are about to be evicted are about to be evicted by | |
| properties that are owned by mom-and-pop landlords, people who | |
| don't necessarily have a mortgage, but they need the income to | |
| sustain themselves. The rent must be paid. | |
| The best way to deal with these issues associated with | |
| eviction would be for the rent to be paid. It obviously | |
| benefits the tenant, because the tenant maintains a home, but | |
| it also benefits those mom-and-pop landlords who need this | |
| income to sustain themselves. The rent must be paid. | |
| The $25 billion that we have proposed that is in this | |
| package is another down payment. It is a continuation of what | |
| must be done. | |
| I don't know what the duration of the pandemic will be, but | |
| the duration of the suffering is still at the level it was | |
| previously, notwithstanding our efforts to help, because, as | |
| has been indicated today, some 40 million may be on the brink | |
| of eviction. Nobody knows what the real number is; I have heard | |
| numbers higher, and I have seen some lower. But the point is, | |
| people are on the edge. They are living on the margins, and we | |
| must pay the rent. | |
| Having said this, I do want to concern myself now with the | |
| $1.4 trillion-plus package or tax cuts in 2017: $1.4 trillion | |
| went to some of the wealthiest people in this country. There | |
| were no hues and cries about, we are paying them too much and | |
| they are getting too much money in their pockets. | |
| They were not suffering. Their rent was paid. There was no | |
| pandemic. Their car notes were paid. But they were not persons | |
| who needed to have some infusion of cash for some specific | |
| reason. We never heard from people who were complaining about | |
| this from the other side. | |
| My dear friends, if there is a moral question about someone | |
| who is getting a six-figure income and we are talking about | |
| maybe $150,000 for them, too, where is the moral issue | |
| associated with putting millions upon millions in the pockets | |
| of persons who are wealthy, who did not express a need for it? | |
| In fact, many of them said, don't do this, I don't need the | |
| money. Many of them did, but we did it, notwithstanding their | |
| hues and cries. | |
| So, I just believe that at some point, we have to | |
| understand that it is not a sin for people in the working class | |
| to get help, because it wasn't a sin, by some standards, for | |
| people who are in the upper class to get help. | |
| So, Mr. Strain, my question to you is this: What was your | |
| position on the wealthy class, the healthy class, what was your | |
| position when they were getting these tax breaks in the | |
| millions? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. | |
| My position on the 2017 tax law is that the corporate | |
| provisions, I think, were very good. I have some issues with | |
| the individual-side provisions. So, I don't think I am-- | |
| Mr. Green. I have been doing some research, and I haven't | |
| been able to read where you expressed those concerns. | |
| Do you have a White Paper that you have written that | |
| expressed those concerns? | |
| Mr. Strain. I believe that I expressed those concerns a bit | |
| in commentary and in media interviews, certainly behind-the- | |
| scenes, as well. I don't think I am the forefront-- | |
| Mr. Green. I can appreciate behind-the-scenes, but a lot of | |
| what we have to do to have an impact has to be open and | |
| notorious. You are here, openly and notoriously, expressing | |
| your concerns about the morality associated with working-class | |
| people getting some help. I didn't see that in my research, | |
| openly and notoriously, for the wealthy class. | |
| And with reference to the tax cuts to the corporations, do | |
| you believe that corporations should have received those tax | |
| cuts and still keep those tax cuts? | |
| Mr. Strain. Congressman, I reject your characterization-- | |
| Mr. Green. Seconds left-- | |
| Mr. Strain. I reject your characterization of reducing tax | |
| rates-- | |
| Mr. Green. My time has expired. | |
| Mr. Strain. --as giving a handout to anyone. | |
| Mr. Green. My time has expired. | |
| Mr. Strain. I also reject your characterization of my views | |
| and I-- | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman's time has expired. | |
| The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Stivers, is now recognized for | |
| 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Stivers. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I appreciate you | |
| holding this hearing. | |
| The most important issue facing us, Madam Chairwoman, as | |
| you know, is recovering our economy and moving past COVID-19 | |
| and getting our kids back in schools, getting our businesses | |
| open, setting the conditions to make that happen, to have | |
| sustainable growth in the future, and to mitigate the suffering | |
| in the meantime. | |
| So, I am curious, Dr. Strain, do you think opening the | |
| economy is the best long-term solution toward our economic | |
| growth? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. | |
| I think there is really no question about that. Once we get | |
| the virus under control, and once we get people vaccinated, | |
| there is every reason to believe that the economy will bounce | |
| back-- | |
| Mr. Stivers. Okay. Thank you, Dr. Strain. | |
| Mr. Strain. --very strongly. And-- | |
| Mr. Stivers. Thank you. | |
| I only have a short amount of time, and I would like to ask | |
| Mr. Anthony, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Murguia, and Mr. Spriggs, do you | |
| all support vaccinations, one at a time, quickly, yes or no? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Clarence Anthony, I personally support it and | |
| I educate people to take it, but it is their decision, | |
| especially in the Black and-- | |
| Mr. Stivers. I am not asking about mandatory vaccines. I am | |
| asking if you personally support vaccinations. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Johnson? | |
| Mr. Johnson. Yes. | |
| Mr. Stivers. Thank you. | |
| Ms. Murguia. Yes. | |
| Mr. Stivers. Mr. Spriggs? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Yes, I do. | |
| Mr. Stivers. Thank you. | |
| I want to be clear: I am not for mandatory vaccinations for | |
| people who have religious or personal problems with it, but I | |
| want to educate, and I think that vaccinations are the fastest | |
| way forward. By the way, I did put forward an idea a couple of | |
| weeks ago, that I have since walked away from, of tying the | |
| stimulus payments to the vaccinations. | |
| But I would like to talk to Mr. Johnson about vaccinations. | |
| I read in a front-page story in the Columbus Dispatch that in | |
| Ohio, the vaccination rates among minority communities were | |
| lower than majority communities. | |
| Is there something we should be doing in this bill to help | |
| support vaccinations, whether it is a PR campaign; again, I am | |
| not for mandatory vaccinations, but is there something that we | |
| could do? Is it a distribution issue? Have you dug into that | |
| issue, Mr. Johnson, about what is going on? Is that an anomaly | |
| in Ohio or is that happening around the country? Is there | |
| something that we need to do? | |
| Because I believe vaccinations are one of the fastest ways | |
| to open the economy. | |
| Mr. Johnson. First of all, that is the reality across the | |
| country. It is a trend we have seen that African-American | |
| communities have been disproportionately left out of the | |
| vaccination opportunities. In this bill, we should prioritize | |
| those communities who have been hit hardest first to ensure | |
| that we get those individuals who are critical workers, who are | |
| providing the support. | |
| Second, in this bill, there should be a robust | |
| communications plan investing in African-owned media, and | |
| Latino-owned media to talk to some targeted communities, and | |
| then American-owned media to talk to targeted communities to | |
| ensure the proper education is provided. | |
| Mr. Stivers. Thank you. I really appreciate that. | |
| We need a partnership with really trusted organizations | |
| like the NAACP, Mr. Johnson, as we pursue this. | |
| I have seen some conspiracy theories on social media about | |
| Hank Aaron's death that don't appear to be based in fact, and I | |
| would like to make sure that we address some of those issues, | |
| too. Because while it is true that Mr. Aaron got the | |
| vaccination and passed away, I don't believe, and doctors that | |
| I have seen interviewed have said there seems to be no | |
| correlation between the vaccination and him later dying. | |
| So, is that an issue in the minority community, Mr. | |
| Johnson? | |
| Mr. Johnson. There are some historical questions that many | |
| would like answered, but that is the part of education that | |
| must take place. We stand ready to partner with you or the | |
| committee or anyone in general to ensure that people are | |
| educated around their options, which is most crucial, and in | |
| doing so, we could find ourselves getting out of this pandemic | |
| much quicker if we target impacted communities. | |
| Mr. Stivers. Are we doing enough with testing? Are African | |
| Americans represented enough in the FDA's tests? Is that an | |
| issue, Mr. Johnson? | |
| Mr. Johnson. There is a huge disparity in clinical trials | |
| in terms of the demographics of African Americans and Latinos. | |
| So, we must increase that, as well. | |
| Mr. Stivers. I would like to work-- | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman's time has expired. | |
| Mr. Stivers. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Stivers. I am committed to working with everybody on | |
| those issues. Thank you. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman from Missouri, Mr. | |
| Cleaver, who is also the Chair of our Subcommittee on Housing, | |
| Community Development, and Insurance, is now recognized for 5 | |
| minutes. | |
| Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| Madam Chairwoman, I am so glad to have Mayor Anthony with | |
| us today. We were mayors back in the day. He started a little | |
| earlier. He was there at the age of--I think, in his 20s. But I | |
| would like to talk with him and Ms. Murguia. | |
| Mayor Anthony, we have a problem in Congress that you can | |
| recognize, maybe most, which is that the Federal Government | |
| leans towards Governors, because most of the people who come | |
| from other divisions, they come from State legislatures, State | |
| senates, and there are only a few of us who were mayors, and so | |
| we tend to do dumb things like, the first CARES Act only wanted | |
| to give direct grants to cities populated over 500,000. We did | |
| fix that, however, but the other thing it might be important | |
| for people to remember is that there are 27 States in our union | |
| that don't have any cities populated over 500,000. | |
| Mr. Mayor, there seems to be this resistance, particularly | |
| on the Republican side, of giving money to cities and States in | |
| our package. | |
| What would you say to them or what can you say to them | |
| right now in terms of that need and what happens if they don't | |
| do it? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Thank you, Congressman Cleaver, for that | |
| opportunity to respond. | |
| What we are seeing, again, is a loss of jobs and loss of | |
| ability to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic that exists | |
| specifically in the neighborhoods and the communities of rural, | |
| small, as well as urban communities. And I think that the | |
| misnomer here is that we are looking for a bailout. | |
| What we are saying is if we are going to get back on track | |
| in America, we must give some support to the level of | |
| government directly to respond, and to create the jobs, and to | |
| be able to help the small businesses, and minority-owned | |
| businesses, help those that have been left behind. So, that is | |
| the bottom line here. We were overlooked in the last bill, | |
| because we did not get direct dollars. | |
| I am just asking that we get a partnership with those | |
| mayors and councilmembers of towns and villages of all sizes to | |
| get them the dollars, Congressman. | |
| Mr. Cleaver. Amen. | |
| Ms. Murguia, I am not going to mention that you are from | |
| Kansas City, I am not trying to rub that in to people, but what | |
| I would like for you to address is that Black and Brown people | |
| end up being disproportionately on the front lines of holding | |
| the country together, but we are on the back lines of receiving | |
| the vaccines. | |
| But even before that, there has been always this resistance | |
| about increasing the minimum wage. Has your organization taken | |
| a position yet on the minimum wage, which we do have in this | |
| package? | |
| Ms. Murguia. Thank you, Congressman, for your leadership. | |
| We absolutely support a $15 increase in the minimum wage. We | |
| understand that an unfair minimum wage disproportionately | |
| affects people of color, including Latinos and African- | |
| Americans, many of whom are often concentrated in low-wage | |
| jobs; for instance, 34 percent of Latinos are earning below | |
| poverty-level wages. | |
| And we know, also, that Congress has not raised the Federal | |
| minimum wage in quite some time. It is currently at $7.25 an | |
| hour, and has been since 2009. So for us, we absolutely | |
| understand how increasing that minimum wage can help provide | |
| needed economic support for these communities who have been | |
| disproportionately impacted, and not just by the pandemic, as I | |
| highlighted in my testimony. | |
| Even in pre-pandemic times, we had seen significant | |
| challenges in terms of income and equality and those underlying | |
| conditions that are systemic that have kept our communities | |
| from being full participants in the economy. So, we absolutely | |
| believe that minimum wage has to be part of a robust recovery | |
| and we support it. | |
| And I will just build quickly, the States and localities, | |
| part of that ecosystem, as you know, Mr. Mayor, Congressman, is | |
| the ecosystem of community-based organizations that are key | |
| links to communities of color for services. And so, Guadalupe | |
| Center or the Mattie Rhodes Center or El Centro, those are all | |
| key to providing important services in this particular time, | |
| and need that funding, as well. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman's time has expired. Thank | |
| you. | |
| The gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Barr, is recognized for 5 | |
| minutes. | |
| Mr. Barr. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| And for all of the Americans who are watching this hearing | |
| online or on television, I want to be clear-eyed about what the | |
| Biden Administration and my Democrat friends are doing this | |
| week. This week, Democrats are using a budget procedure | |
| originally designed to cut spending, to pave the way for a | |
| massive spending spree that, with interest, will add over $2 | |
| trillion to the national debt, despite the immediate | |
| availability of over $1 trillion in unspent funds from the | |
| CARES Act, and a $900 billion relief bill passed less than 2 | |
| months ago. That bears repeating: Over $1 trillion in unspent | |
| funds are immediately available for the American people. | |
| I would hope that all of us, on a bipartisan basis, would | |
| focus on actually deploying those funds before we rushed to | |
| saddle future generations of Americans with an additional $2 | |
| trillion in debt. | |
| But one thing we absolutely must do is, do no harm. I want | |
| to explore this minimum wage hike that is included in this | |
| bill, because at a time when so many workers, and especially | |
| low-wage workers, the minority workers that Ms. Murguia was | |
| just talking about, are struggling, one thing we absolutely | |
| should not do is force those workers to lose their only source | |
| of income. | |
| And Congress went to great lengths through the PPP to | |
| ensure that small businesses could keep their employees on the | |
| payroll, yet this proposal from President Biden and | |
| Congressional Democrats to raise the Federal minimum wage to | |
| $15 per hour, without any adjustments based on regional | |
| differences and cost-of-living, would compromise those efforts. | |
| According to the CBO, 1.3 million low-income workers will | |
| lose their jobs because of this misguided proposal. I want my | |
| friends, my Democrat friends who support this policy, who are | |
| well-intentioned, who want to help low-income workers, and I | |
| share their goal, but I want them to hear what I was told by my | |
| local restauranteurs, a sector of the economy that has been | |
| devastated by this pandemic. I have talked to big | |
| restauranteurs with 1,800 employees across all of their | |
| restaurants, and then in some cases, a small restauranteur, who | |
| owns two restaurants in a very low-wage, low cost-of-living | |
| county, Estill County, in my district, and they said it would | |
| be ``catastrophic.'' Those two restaurants would close as a | |
| result of this because of the low cost-of-living. Those 40 | |
| employees would lose their jobs. | |
| And the large restauranteur in Lexington, Kentucky, told me | |
| that because of this policy, his business would lose 70 percent | |
| of their profits and the result would be ``carnage'' for the | |
| tipped employees in his business. | |
| So, Dr. Strain, what would be the impact on low-income | |
| workers, especially those in the distressed restaurant sector, | |
| with this across-the-board hike in the Federal minimum wage | |
| that would destroy jobs? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. | |
| Your characterization is correct. I think CBO's estimate of | |
| 1.3 million is actually on the low side. There are three States | |
| where the median wage is below $16.50, where half of all | |
| workers earn less than $16.50. There are two dozen States where | |
| half of all workers earn less than $18 or $18.50 an hour. And | |
| in 47 States, over one quarter of workers earn less than $15 an | |
| hour. | |
| So, this would be extremely disruptive, particularly in | |
| low-wage States. But when you think about low-wage States, | |
| think about approximately half of the States. | |
| Mr. Barr. Can I just reclaim my time quickly, because I | |
| know my Democratic colleagues do very much care about, just | |
| like we do, these low-income workers, but the reality is, in | |
| the restaurant sector, in this past year, nearly one in every | |
| five restaurants permanently closed their doors, and over 30 of | |
| the country's largest retail and restaurant companies have | |
| filed for bankruptcy. | |
| Is this the time? Is this really the time to put greater | |
| stress on those employers in their ability to retain workers? | |
| I think this is a devastating policy that will destroy jobs | |
| and kill peoples' ability to stay employed. And with that, my | |
| time has expired, and I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you, very much. | |
| The gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Perlmutter, who is also | |
| the chairman of our Subcommittee on Consumer Protection and | |
| Financial Institutions, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. Thanks, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| And I have to start by saying to my friend, Mr. Barr, I am | |
| your ``Democratic'' friend. I am not your ``Democrat'' friend. | |
| It is the Democratic party. It is not the Democrat party. I | |
| don't call you my ``publican'' friend or ``banana republican'' | |
| friend. You are my Republican friend. | |
| So, please, I am your Democratic friend. It is the | |
| Democratic party. Thank you. | |
| Now, many of my questions have been answered and I thank | |
| the panel, all of you; you have been excellent witnesses. I | |
| would just like to confirm with you, Dr. Strain, and with you, | |
| Mr. Anthony, some numbers that you guys testified to, as to the | |
| need for backfilling, to some degree, State and local | |
| governments. | |
| Dr. Strain, in my notes, I have that you said a $100 | |
| billion for State and local governments probably is your | |
| ballpark number; is that right? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, Congressman. I think that would be | |
| appropriate to the need. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. Okay. And Mr. Anthony, the number that I | |
| had for you was $350 billion; is that correct? | |
| Mr. Anthony. That is correct, Congressman. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. Okay. Thank you. | |
| I turn my attention to you, Ms. Murguia, even if you are | |
| from Kansas City, which is a shame, and to you, Mr. Johnson. In | |
| Colorado, we noticed an uptick in calls to our housing hotline | |
| in terms of evictions and mortgage delinquencies. Within the | |
| Hispanic and Latinx communities, within the African-American | |
| community, have either of you seen an uptick in concerns about | |
| delinquencies, either with rentals or in homeownership? | |
| And I will start with you, Janet Murguia from Kansas City. | |
| I shouldn't be messing around with Kansas City, but Mr. Cleaver | |
| always makes me crazy about that. | |
| Ms. Murguia. Well, go, Kansas City Chiefs, on Sunday, just | |
| to add another point of emphasis there. | |
| Look, you are right, Congressman. There is no question that | |
| our communities are being impacted very seriously by the rental | |
| and the foreclosures or mortgage challenges. It is one of the | |
| reasons that in my written testimony, I really went to great | |
| lengths to talk about the importance of housing counseling | |
| programs. They can provide that on-the-ground resource where | |
| folks can call and turn to trusted partners and advisors, and | |
| we can provide linguistic and culturally competent information. | |
| And that information is so important right now as they are | |
| navigating the crisis, the confusing messages about what they | |
| can and can't do. It is essential that we expand and deepen | |
| resources for those types of housing assistance programs, in | |
| addition to funds that will help extend eviction moratoriums | |
| and also mortgage relief for some of these individuals. | |
| I found that our network of community-based organizations, | |
| the UnidosUS Affiliate Network, has been extremely effective | |
| when we have the resources to be able to engage on the ground, | |
| because we are seen as trusted partners and we can give them | |
| that important information. But it is essential that those | |
| services be funded as part of this recovery. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. | |
| And Mr. Johnson? | |
| Mr. Johnson. I absolutely agree with Janet, and I also | |
| agree with Congressman Green that there is some immediate need, | |
| not only for the home renters who actually work every day, but | |
| for this pandemic, but also for the homeowners who are | |
| providing access to home rental as a supplemental income | |
| opportunity. It is absolutely vital to provide support as soon | |
| as possible. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. | |
| And I would just like to say that I tried cross-examining | |
| Jim Jordan in the Rules Committee on Zoom the other day. It | |
| didn't work very well. Cross-examining witnesses on Zoom or on | |
| Webex is hard and everybody should just remember that. | |
| I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. | |
| The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Williams, is recognized for 5 | |
| minutes. | |
| Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| In December, Congress passed a bipartisan $900 billion | |
| COVID relief bill, which brings the 10-month total on | |
| coronavirus relief to $3.5 trillion. Now, this means we have | |
| spent more money on COVID relief in less than a year than the | |
| entire GDP of Germany, France, or India. | |
| It is not sustainable or realistic to think the Federal | |
| Government can continue this pace of spending to keep propping | |
| up the U.S. economy, while States are forcing businesses to | |
| remain closed. The only way to get out of this pandemic with | |
| our economy still intact is if we end the lockdowns and put | |
| people back to work. | |
| Dr. Strain, I am going to have 3 questions for you. This | |
| will be the first one. Can you give us some examples of | |
| policies we can be examining in Congress that would incentivize | |
| reopening the economy, that would not require, I repeat, not | |
| require additional Federal spending? | |
| Mr. Strain. Policies that would not require additional | |
| Federal spending? | |
| Congressman, I think there is a need for some additional | |
| Federal spending, to advance your goal of reopening the | |
| economy, and to get shots in arms, to distribute the vaccine | |
| much better than we have seen so far. | |
| I also think that despite the rollout of the vaccine, a | |
| more adequate testing regime would go a long way toward | |
| reopening the economy, as well. So, I think those sorts of | |
| measures would do what you want, but they would cost some | |
| money. | |
| Mr. Williams of Texas. What about liability protection for | |
| businesses? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, Congressman, I think that is an important | |
| component. I think you don't want to give businesses blanket | |
| immunity. You want businesses who are grossly negligent to | |
| still be liable. | |
| But businesses are faced with sometimes conflicting | |
| guidance. They are faced with guidance that is changing | |
| relatively rapidly. So, I think if you are a business and you | |
| make a good-faith effort to follow public health guidance, that | |
| a temporary liability shield from frivolous pandemic-related | |
| lawsuits would be very appropriate and advisable. | |
| Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you. | |
| Secondly, if my friends on the other side of the aisle are | |
| intent on passing another COVID-19 relief package, they should | |
| prioritize reopening the economy, as we've talked about, and | |
| getting people back to work. But, instead, they are looking to | |
| include completely, I think, unrelated liberal policy | |
| priorities such as increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour. | |
| We have talked a lot about that. | |
| And I just got out of another committee hearing with a | |
| small business where they had 3 witnesses who all said it would | |
| be a disaster to increase the minimum wage to $15. I am a small | |
| business owner in Texas, and I have some experience in that. It | |
| would be a real problem. | |
| Now, Jim Clyburn said back in March that this virus is a | |
| tremendous opportunity to restructure things in their vision. | |
| Now, the Congressional Budget Office, as we have already heard | |
| today, estimates an increase in the minimum wage to this level | |
| could cause over a million workers to lose their jobs, and it | |
| is crazy that a job-killing policy is being considered in the | |
| middle of a pandemic. | |
| So, Dr. Strain, can you discuss how increasing the minimum | |
| wage could affect the rate of the automation in our workforce? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, Congressman. | |
| I think the CBO estimate of over a million jobs lost is a | |
| reasonable estimate. I think it is actually too low, given the | |
| fact that we are talking about an increase during a period of | |
| labor market weakness. | |
| I think economic research shows that when the economy is | |
| weak, that the job loss from a minimum wage increase is higher | |
| than in normal times. So, I think it really would be a | |
| significant, significant mistake, that would accrue to the | |
| detriment of low-wage workers. | |
| You asked about automation. The plan to phase this in over | |
| a 4- or 5-year period, I think, on the one hand, blunts the | |
| impact, but on the other hand, if you are a small business | |
| owner, you know that you are in for a period of 4 or 5 years | |
| where every year, your labor costs are going to go up and up. | |
| So, that really, I think, will encourage businesses, since they | |
| know they are looking at a sustained problem that is going to | |
| grow every year, that will encourage businesses to think about | |
| how they can produce goods and services with fewer workers and | |
| that will increase the use of automation. | |
| Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you very much. | |
| And Madam Chairwoman, I yield back. Thank you. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. | |
| The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Foster, is recognized for | |
| 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Foster. Thank you. Ten years ago, when we were | |
| preparing the stimulus bill to revive the economy in response | |
| to the previous economic collapse that the previous Republican | |
| Administration had left us with, we were greeted with | |
| terrifying predictions that the stimulus spending would trigger | |
| hyperinflation, huge increases in government borrowing costs to | |
| debase our currency, and on and on. I can't remember how many | |
| hearings we had on this subject. | |
| And in the 10 years since those predictions, of course, we | |
| saw something very different, actually historically low | |
| inflation and low borrowing costs. And I was wondering, I guess | |
| starting with Dr. Spriggs, what has been learned in that 10 | |
| years about what is wrong with these predictions that are being | |
| made in response to stimulus spending during times of economic | |
| stress? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. We learned from the Great Recession that we | |
| gave too little, and that was an error, and we are trying not | |
| to repeat that. Where we stand right now is where we were at | |
| the depth of the Great Recession. Congress already responded in | |
| March with a very substantial package, to recover from what was | |
| even worse than where we are now. | |
| But it slowed down. In December, we lost jobs. And one of | |
| the things that we know was weak from the recovery during the | |
| Great Recession was that we didn't pay attention to State and | |
| local government. We lost jobs in the State and local | |
| government sector, we left that sector weaker, and we don't | |
| want to repeat that going into this recovery, and we need those | |
| workers so we can go door to door, and we can call people. The | |
| idea that we are going to use computers and people getting | |
| online and setting up appointments is not going to reach the | |
| communities that we need to reach. It is not going to reach | |
| rural communities that don't have internet. It is not going to | |
| reach small cities where internet isn't that strong. We need | |
| local government to have the people in place to really reach | |
| the people, and to make sure that going forward, we have a more | |
| robust recovery. | |
| Mr. Foster. In the 10 years that we have had to study the | |
| response to the last stimulus--it contained a variety of | |
| different measures, and if I recall properly, roughly 40 | |
| percent of that stimulus was tax cuts, some of which actually | |
| went to very wealthy people and some to the working class. | |
| What have we learned about the benefits of things like tax | |
| cuts for the wealthy, compared to assistance to working-class | |
| families, in terms of the bang for the buck, in generating GDP | |
| in response to a crisis, which is more effective? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. We had a much bigger fiscal multiplier by | |
| helping those with lower incomes, and one of the problems from | |
| the recovery during the Great Recession was that we didn't get | |
| wages to rise. Wage growth was very slow, until State and local | |
| governments stepped in and marched us towards $15 an hour. So, | |
| we have to understand that the call to raise the Federal | |
| minimum wage to $15 an hour is not the whole country, because | |
| the whole country is on an uneven path, and those States that | |
| aren't on that path disproportionately have Black workers. | |
| There is a racial equity issue here because Black workers have | |
| not seen their wages respond as quickly since the Great | |
| Recession, and it is in large part because we ensured stronger, | |
| safer economies by doing that. | |
| We have studied, as economists, raises in the minimum wage. | |
| All of these claims of job losses in restaurants is not what we | |
| find in the evidence. The claims by the CBO have to do with | |
| workers who maybe work two jobs, and are asked to deal with | |
| substitution within the household, where maybe the wife decides | |
| she doesn't need to work if the wages are higher. So, it is not | |
| that we mean fewer jobs. It is that some workers may be able to | |
| cut back on their hours. | |
| Mr. Foster. Thank you, and I understand there is another | |
| large effect that if you provide economic benefits to those at | |
| the top of the economic scale, instead of spending in the local | |
| economy, they are much more likely to basically turn it over to | |
| their investment advisors who will advise them to diversify, | |
| and roughly one-third of that money will be invested offshore, | |
| which I think is another new argument about the benefits, of | |
| targeting the benefits at the working families who need it the | |
| most. | |
| I am done here, and I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. The gentleman from Georgia, | |
| Mr. Loudermilk, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I am surprised | |
| that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have all of a | |
| sudden felt the need to rush through this partisan COVID relief | |
| package, when the Speaker actually held up the last one for | |
| over 6 months. We all know that was done purely for political | |
| reasons, to hurt the other President politically in his | |
| campaign. But now, all of a sudden, this is an emergency that | |
| we have to get it out. | |
| There is over $1 trillion of the last several packages | |
| still unspent. Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer recently | |
| said it makes no sense to pinch pennies when so many Americans | |
| are struggling. I would argue that it makes no sense to spend | |
| another $2 trillion when there is still more than $1 trillion | |
| of unspent funds from the other packages. | |
| The CBO projects that the December package will grow the | |
| economy 1.5 percent faster in 2021 and 2022, and less than 20 | |
| percent of it has been spent. We should let that package work | |
| and see what else is needed before rushing to pass a colossal | |
| waste of $2 trillion. I appreciate that President Biden and | |
| other Democrats have called for unity and have spoken of the | |
| need for job growth, but actions speak louder than words. They | |
| are pushing a hyperpartisan package, and quite frankly, we | |
| voted yesterday on a budget, and the Budget Committee has not | |
| even been organized yet. There has been no input from | |
| Republicans. There is no bipartisan agreement here. This is | |
| being ramrodded through and it is a package that could destroy, | |
| and I believe will destroy, millions of American jobs. | |
| Here is my question. Mr. Strain, there is an old saying | |
| that you don't raise taxes during a recession. I would argue | |
| that you don't raise the minimum wage during a recession | |
| either. CBO estimates that a $15 minimum wage would destroy 1.3 | |
| million jobs. It would disproportionately increase employment | |
| for part-time workers and those without a high school diploma | |
| and raise the cost for small businesses, and the small | |
| businesses are the ones that have been hurting the most because | |
| of the government shutdowns. Those are the people we should be | |
| helping. It is unconscionable that Congress would pass a policy | |
| to destroy so many jobs when we are trying to recover the | |
| economy. | |
| So, Mr. Strain, can you explain why now is not the time to | |
| raise the minimum wage? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. I agree with that. I | |
| think there are several reasons why raising the minimum wage in | |
| a period of labor market weakness leads to a larger amount of | |
| employment loss. Businesses are just more willing to make those | |
| kinds of changes to the way they produce goods and services | |
| when the economy is weak, and when the economy is weak, of | |
| course, there is less demand for businesses, products, and | |
| services to begin with, which also makes them more inclined to | |
| change the structure of their labor forces. | |
| I think it is actually maybe even a little bit worse than | |
| you characterized, Congressman, because the same CBO report | |
| that found 1.3 million job losses also found that a $15 -an- | |
| hour minimum wage would slow economic growth. And so, I just | |
| think that there are many reasons why you don't want to raise | |
| the minimum wage to $15 an hour, and raising the minimum wage | |
| to $15 an hour during a period of elevated unemployment is | |
| adding insult to injury, I think. | |
| Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you. I agree with you there, and | |
| there is another provision in here that gives me grave concern. | |
| Back in August of last year, I was visiting with several of our | |
| local governments, and one of the county commissioners came to | |
| me and said, ``Look, please do something for us. Will you stop | |
| the unemployment subsidies? We don't want any handouts from | |
| Washington. We want you to stop the subsidy because we can't | |
| get our county employees to come back to work because they are | |
| making more money being on unemployment than they were being | |
| paid at their jobs,'' which, according to the economy in | |
| northwest Georgia, they were making good money there. Four | |
| hundred dollars is keeping people out of work and it is hurting | |
| our economy. | |
| Do you agree with me that extending this $400 subsidy for | |
| nearly 2 years is going to be devastating to especially the | |
| small businesses? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, Congressman. I think extending the $400 | |
| through September, which is what President Biden is proposing, | |
| would be an act of economic self-harm. When Congress passed the | |
| $600 Federal supplement in March, that was during a period of | |
| time where the country was locked down, and you really did not | |
| want unemployed workers out there trying to find a job because | |
| you didn't want them spreading the coronavirus. That is not the | |
| situation we are going to be in for September. You are going to | |
| have unemployed workers sitting at home and not getting jobs, | |
| when there is no reason for that. | |
| Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you. I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman's time has expired. The | |
| gentlewoman from Ohio, Mrs. Beatty, who is also the Chair of | |
| our Subcommittee on Diversity and Inclusion, is now recognized | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mrs. Beatty. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman, and thank | |
| you to the committee, and thank you to all of the witnesses. It | |
| is an honor for me to be here today. Certainly, as we have | |
| heard, and research and the people's comments have supported, | |
| individuals need relief. Small businesses need relief. We know | |
| that when we look at the 440-some thousand individuals dying | |
| from COVID-19, that it is a three-headed pandemic. It is health | |
| care, it is the economic issues that we are dealing with, and | |
| it is the social injustices. | |
| So when it comes to this committee, I want to thank the | |
| Congresswoman for speaking up for all of the people and what we | |
| know to be true. We know that people need more financial | |
| assistance. We know that individuals need relief. We are | |
| hopeful that we will get through this COVID-19 because of | |
| science and medicine. But we know we are not there. | |
| We know cities and communities across this country are | |
| saying, ``Give us relief. Continue the individual | |
| unemployment.'' I think it is unthinkable for anyone to believe | |
| that someone would not go to work because they are getting an | |
| additional $200, $300, or even $600. It comes back to the | |
| economy. Economists have told us that. Wall Street has said to | |
| us, when you look at the stock market and what happens when | |
| individuals get more dollars, what do they do? They buy food. | |
| What do they do? They try to keep a roof over their heads. | |
| I want to thank all of the witnesses, but I want to give a | |
| special thank-you to Mr. Johnson, head of the NAACP, because | |
| last week he brought up former Ambassador Susan Rice to talk | |
| about domestic policy leadership and the issues and racial | |
| justice inequity. He had soon-to-be HUD Secretary Marcia Fudge. | |
| Housing is a big part of what we do under Chairwoman Maxine | |
| Waters' committee. He had me come on to talk about financial | |
| services. And I want to thank you, because when the people | |
| called in, it was Black people, White people, Democrats, and | |
| Republicans, because death and hurting is not a partisan issue. | |
| So, Mr. Johnson, can you help us? When we know that it | |
| comes to people who are affected most by COVID-19, whether it | |
| be medically or economically, African Americans have borne the | |
| brunt of this pandemic, so is there anything, as head of the | |
| NAACP, that you want to elaborate on, that we still need to do | |
| in Congress to ensure that all communities who have suffered | |
| are made whole? | |
| Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty. Three quick | |
| things. First, is a targeted approach to ensure that | |
| communities who are most at risk receive the vaccine | |
| immediately. Second, I have never heard that giving people in | |
| need of money, more money, will hurt people in need of money. | |
| That is a concept I am not familiar with. We need to ensure | |
| that we stabilize our economy. It fuels more resources in | |
| people's hands, not corporations, but those people who use | |
| those funds to support the very small businesses that many of | |
| them work for, like the Henry Ford Model. He paid his workers | |
| more because he wanted to sell more cars. | |
| And then third, I always go back to the looming student | |
| debt crisis. We depend on our governmental workers, local and | |
| State, teachers, and they are suffocating under the burden of | |
| student loan debt in the midst of a pandemic, in the midst of | |
| an economic crisis. We must give those individuals relief, and | |
| if we do so that can stimulate the economy, because the $300 to | |
| $500 that they are paying in monthly student loans will go | |
| right back into the economy. | |
| Mrs. Beatty. Thank you. Dr. Spriggs, can you tell us a | |
| little bit about the economy and the consequences of not | |
| providing more rental assistance dollars? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you, Congresswoman. We are risking too | |
| much going in the economy because all workers in America make | |
| too little money. The size of this package is evidence to us | |
| how little we have put in the hands of our workers, keeping | |
| them from being individually resilient in the face of crises. | |
| Letting them become homeless complicates this situation. If you | |
| are a long-term unemployed worker, it is very hard to reconnect | |
| you to the labor force. Letting you become homeless is | |
| virtually impossible. That is too steep a challenge for us to | |
| face. It is penny wise and pound foolish for us not to make the | |
| investment now to prevent the scarring of homelessness-- | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentlewoman's time has expired. | |
| Thank you. | |
| Mrs. Beatty. Thank you. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Davidson, | |
| is now recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Davidson. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And I thank our | |
| witnesses. This is certainly a timely hearing and one that | |
| deserves a lot of attention. Frankly, over the past year, | |
| nearly $5 trillion has been voted on here in this body to add | |
| to the monetary supply of the United States of America. | |
| One of the agenda items is that the Fed's dual mandate | |
| should be updated to address economic inequality. The proposals | |
| behind that, from the Majority, focus on more redistribution. | |
| They want the Fed to take money that we cannot even print fast | |
| enough and redistribute it. They want the Fed to make loans | |
| that the market would never actually make. And they want the | |
| American taxpayer to underwrite risks that no one rationally | |
| would take. | |
| The Federal Reserve is adding to this inequality massively, | |
| because what they are doing isn't driving a huge amount of | |
| consumer price inflation. It isn't driving that kind of | |
| inflation because that money does not make it to the average | |
| American worker. That money makes it to people who are wealthy, | |
| people who have a large portion of their net worth tied up in | |
| marketable securities. And that is why right now, in the midst | |
| of this pandemic, where much of Main Street is decimated, Wall | |
| Street is having its best days ever. You are seeing the S&P 500 | |
| hit record highs with no correlation to the activity on Main | |
| Street. Lots of hope for the future, but we had lots of hope | |
| for the future at this time last year, and we weren't yet | |
| reacting to the COVID-19 pandemic. | |
| When those asset prices become inflated, the wealth gap | |
| grows. The wealthy benefit from this right now. Jeff Bezos | |
| doesn't even pay the capital gains tax on his shares. He simply | |
| borrows against their value, which is rational in our current | |
| Tax Code. | |
| But while the worker, the American worker back home in Ohio | |
| is busy working his hourly job, or hoping to be able to get | |
| back to it because it has been crippled not entirely by the | |
| virus but by the government's reaction to it, is happy that his | |
| 401(k) or his IRA has gone up, but that is for future earnings. | |
| That is not for money that can be spent today. That is hope for | |
| someday. But meanwhile, the value of those dollars being | |
| deposited in his paycheck are destroying--destroying--our | |
| economy. | |
| When I first got to Congress, I wasn't sure that people | |
| were aware that this destruction was taking place. But the sad | |
| thing is that they are, and they want to misdirect and blame | |
| things like the Tax Code or employers or things like that. And | |
| I don't want to say there is no fault anywhere, but the biggest | |
| pump-and-dump scheme going on in America right now is being | |
| driven by the Federal Reserve. We need to get back to sound | |
| money and have a sound, rational basis for our monetary policy. | |
| These economic distortions are crippling not just America's | |
| economy but the global economy. Developed economies around the | |
| world are talking about going to real negative nominal rates. | |
| The real rate for interest right now is already negative. No | |
| one really believes that the rate of inflation over the next 10 | |
| years is going to be less than 1 percent. But that is what | |
| happens when you wire Treasuries. It is central planning. It is | |
| distorting pricing. | |
| And that is not an attack against the whole concept of | |
| central banks. Our central bank has been effective. In March, | |
| and in April, in particular, it is a case study in why central | |
| banks should exist. They provided essential stability to make | |
| our markets function. It was incredible. A number of programs | |
| implemented swiftly and decisively when there was literally no | |
| buy side for, for example, the safest assets, municipal bonds. | |
| Super safe assets. A market only functions when there is | |
| equilibrium between buyers and sellers, and when there is no | |
| buy side, the market is in freefall. So I commend the Federal | |
| Reserve for that, but since that time we have seen massive | |
| economic distortion, and it not going to end well. | |
| Look, billionaires will lose billions of dollars. They may | |
| even lose a higher percentage of their net worth. But the | |
| working men and women of America are harmed by this economic | |
| distortion. We have to get back to sound money. Now, the idea | |
| to print even more of this money that we don't have, robs from | |
| future consumption. Dr. Strain, you have spoken well of this | |
| economic distortion. I want to give you a chance to talk about | |
| the consequence of spending future earnings of the American | |
| people. What kinds of consequences might we expect from this | |
| economic distortion? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. I think it is | |
| appropriate for Congress to spend money to support households | |
| and businesses and to fight the virus, and I think that the | |
| CARES Act really did a great deal of good for American | |
| businesses and households. | |
| Mr. Davidson. Thank you for that, and I would agree with | |
| you that it did a very good-- | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman's time has expired. | |
| Mr. Davidson. --job in the essential moments, as I | |
| highlighted. So, I appreciate that final comment, and I yield | |
| back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. The gentleman's time has | |
| expired. The gentleman from California, Mr. Vargas, is | |
| recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman, and I | |
| also want to thank the Republican Ranking Member today for this | |
| hearing. I do think it is very timely, and I first want to say | |
| that I do agree with some of the things that were said by my | |
| good friends from Ohio, certainly Representative Stivers. I | |
| think it is very important that we get the vaccine out in as | |
| many arms as we can. And I do think that my good friend, Mr. | |
| Davidson, what he just said, there is that distortion where you | |
| have now the wealthy getting wealthier and wealthier and the | |
| poor and the working class falling behind, that is something | |
| that is real and we have to work on it. | |
| However, at the same time, I have to say I listened to most | |
| of my other colleagues on the other side and it seems that they | |
| want to figure out how to give the working class and the poor | |
| as little possible help as they possibly can, and the wealthy | |
| as much as they possibly can through tax cuts. It was | |
| interesting to hear a scold today tell us about how we are | |
| going to add trillions of dollars through this potential | |
| process, when that same person, a few years ago, voted in favor | |
| to adding trillions of dollars to the long-term debt by doing | |
| the tax cuts for the wealthy, that even Dr. Strain said he had | |
| problem with, at least with the individuals, not with the | |
| corporations. I do not want to put words in his mouth. | |
| That, to me, is crazy. That is as looney as I think this | |
| QAnon stuff, that we make the wealthier wealthy and the poor | |
| and the middle class, we give them as little help as possible. | |
| That doesn't make any sense to me at all. It doesn't make any | |
| sense. That is not why government exists and that is not what | |
| we should be doing. | |
| I do want to ask a couple of questions here before I become | |
| the scold in the rank here. Ms. Murguia, you were talking about | |
| the losses suffered by Latinos, and they are very painful in my | |
| district, of course, which is predominantly Latino. You talked | |
| about how they are 3 times as likely to die because of COVID- | |
| 19, and twice as likely to get sick, and the losses that we | |
| have suffered. And then you have talked about some of the | |
| things that we can do. What else can we do? You mentioned some, | |
| but what else? | |
| Ms. Murguia. Thank you, Congressman. I appreciate your | |
| comments. And I think I would just say, in addition to what you | |
| have laid out, in terms of making sure we are concentrating on | |
| targeted relief to those who have been the essential workers, | |
| and what we have found is that the Federal relief so far has | |
| not included those essential workers. And as you know, | |
| Congressman--you have worked a lot on behalf of Dreamers and | |
| many who have been undocumented, who are yet filling the lines | |
| of folks who are helping our country right now, whether it is | |
| in the fields as farm workers, whether it is in meat processing | |
| plants, whether it is stocking shelves or actually delivering | |
| food, or whether it is providing care to all of these folks who | |
| are in need of health professionals. But yet, we have found | |
| that Federal relief, because of these families being mixed | |
| status, the relief has not gone there. But they have provided | |
| the work, the services to keep things going. | |
| So we have argued, as you have heard, that we should make | |
| sure that all essential workers, regardless of their status, | |
| many who are families who have U.S. citizen children, should be | |
| included, and that we should take the step to look at, perhaps | |
| in a reconciliation bill, maybe addressing, first and foremost, | |
| how we can provide protected status for these folks. Because | |
| they are going to continue to keep the economy going from this | |
| particular moment and into the future. | |
| Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. | |
| I also want to ask Mr. Anthony, I was on the San Diego City | |
| Council for a number of years when I started my political | |
| career, and the City and a lot of the little cities that I have | |
| in my district are really suffering at this moment. They are | |
| working hard but they are suffering. How can we help them, | |
| through this package? You have talked a little bit about that, | |
| but could you expand on that? Because I know that they work | |
| hard. At the same time, they are in desperate need. | |
| Mr. Anthony. Yes. Thank you, Congressman, for asking that | |
| question. I think the way in which we could be of help to those | |
| small and especially the rural communities is to be able to get | |
| those dollars in the hands of those local leaders who can | |
| actually create those programs such as the food programs. Also | |
| to be able to help them keep their employees so that we can get | |
| our economy started back up through permitting, housing, and | |
| capital investments. Again, this is not a bailout. This is | |
| being able to help them administer the programs that you, in | |
| fact, are approving through the past stimulus projects as well. | |
| Thank you, Congressman. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman's time has expired. | |
| Mr. Vargas. Thank you. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. | |
| Budd, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Budd. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I just want to | |
| confirm, Dr. Strain, can you hear me okay? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, sir. | |
| Mr. Budd. Thank you. I appreciate you being here today. | |
| Over the past 11 months, Congress has appropriated nearly $3.5 | |
| trillion to stimulate the economy and support families, | |
| workers, and small businesses. Today, we are discussing the | |
| newest plan proposed by President Biden which is seeking to add | |
| $1.9 trillion in untargeted relief. I am supportive of the | |
| widespread testing, I am supportive of vaccinations, and I | |
| believe that these are both critical components to opening | |
| safely. But I also strongly believe that additional funding, if | |
| necessary, should be targeted to meet those needs. Keep in mind | |
| that a majority of the funds we appropriated in the December | |
| COVID package has remained untapped. | |
| So my question is this: How will the new untargeted | |
| spending provide greater benefit to our economy that the | |
| already appropriated $3.5 trillion hasn't, and is this even | |
| necessary? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. I think much of it is | |
| unnecessary and a good chunk of it is actually actively | |
| harmful. The checks to households, a whole lot of that money is | |
| going to go into savings. That is not going to help support the | |
| recovery. The reason it is going to go into savings is because | |
| so much of it would go to households earning well above median | |
| income, earning six figures a year, who haven't suffered any | |
| employment losses. | |
| The unemployment insurance supplement of $400 a week | |
| through September, I think will be actively harmful. On the one | |
| hand, it will support consumer spending. On the other hand, it | |
| is going to act to keep people unemployed for longer, at a time | |
| when most likely the vaccines are in wide distribution and we | |
| want people to be getting back to work. The $15-an-hour minimum | |
| wage will be actively harmful to helping low-wage workers keep | |
| jobs, get back to work, and get back on their feet. | |
| So I think you are right, Congressman, that we should be | |
| looking at the actual needs here, and I think it is appropriate | |
| for Congress to spend some more money this month on addressing | |
| those needs. But large portions of the President's proposal | |
| wouldn't do much good, and large portions of the President's | |
| proposal would actually do harm. | |
| Mr. Budd. Thank you. I also want to ask, we have seen the | |
| devastating impacts that widespread lockdowns have had on our | |
| economy. Just last month, the Labor Department reported that | |
| our economy lost 140,000 jobs, and we are used to, over the | |
| last several years, adding jobs by the hundreds of thousands, | |
| but now we have lost 140,000 jobs, the bulk of which came from | |
| States that have endured long-lasting and broad lockdowns. | |
| States with less restrictions are rebounding at a rapid pace. | |
| So, Dr. Strain, do you believe that the most effective way | |
| to support the economy is to safely open it up? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, Congressman. I don't think there is really | |
| any doubt that in order to fully recover from the pandemic, we | |
| need the economy to be reopened. And the best way to get the | |
| economy reopened is to get vaccine shots in people's arms. I | |
| think that the inability to do that quickly, the fact that | |
| vaccines have been sitting in storerooms and not being | |
| administered is a national scandal, and I think it is very | |
| appropriate for Congress to figure out what it can do to help | |
| get people vaccinated. Because the faster we do that, the | |
| faster we can reopen and the faster we can recover. | |
| Mr. Budd. Thank you. And lastly, Dr. Strain, would you | |
| detail the benefits of using private lending institutions to | |
| operate an emergency loan program instead of creating a | |
| government-run program? | |
| Mr. Strain. One benefit is just speed. And that was a key | |
| reason to rely on private sector lending institutions for the | |
| PPP program, that you wanted to get money to businesses | |
| quickly, and that creating a new government agency to do that | |
| really would have slowed it down. | |
| Another reason, of course, is that the situation we are in | |
| now is temporary, and we should not be kind of changing the | |
| structure of government to support a temporary problem. | |
| Mr. Budd. Very good. I appreciate your time, Dr. Strain, | |
| and, Madam Chairwoman, I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentleman from | |
| Florida, Mr. Lawson, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Lawson. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I would like | |
| to thank the witnesses for being here today. I had an | |
| opportunity to listen to many of the panelists, whom I think | |
| have done a great job. And I am going to talk a little bit from | |
| the small business standpoint, because I have been in small | |
| business for the last 34 years. One of the things that, Mr. | |
| Strain, you said, is that enhancing the minimum wage is going | |
| to really, really hurt small businesses. I wonder if you could | |
| elaborate a little bit more on that and tell me why you think | |
| it is really going to hurt them? Oftentimes, we can draw good | |
| employees if we pay them well, which increases our bottom line | |
| and helps us to do better economically, and we might even have | |
| the opportunity, if we get more resources, to hire other | |
| people. | |
| So, maybe you can elaborate on that a little bit more for | |
| me, please? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes. Thank you, Congressman. I think the | |
| example that you gave is an example of something that does | |
| happen. When a State or when the Federal Government increases | |
| the minimum wage, you often see businesses hire a different | |
| type of worker. Perhaps, a business was employing workers who | |
| hadn't graduated high school when the minimum wage was $6 or | |
| $6.50. Then, the minimum wage goes up to $7, $8, and they start | |
| to hire workers who have graduated from high school. So in that | |
| instance, the business itself that is doing that is not | |
| necessarily worse off. They are hiring workers who are going to | |
| be more productive and they are able to absorb the minimum wage | |
| that way. | |
| But the person who loses out is the person who didn't | |
| graduate high school, and my concern is that even in situations | |
| where businesses will be okay--and to be clear, when you are | |
| talking about doubling the minimum wage, I think many, many | |
| businesses are going to really struggle. But even those | |
| businesses that don't struggle because they find other ways to | |
| adapt, that doesn't change the fact that the least skilled, | |
| least experienced, most vulnerable workers in society are going | |
| to pay an enormous cost for the minimum wage increase up to | |
| $15. Middle-class households are going to see their incomes go | |
| up, but the cost of the policy is going to be borne by the | |
| least skilled, least experienced, most vulnerable workers in | |
| society, and that is just not a tradeoff that I think Congress | |
| should make. | |
| Mr. Lawson. Okay. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Johnson, I heard you earlier give quite a few analyses | |
| about where we stand, especially with people of color. And I | |
| know how important it is to get the vaccine out there because I | |
| know it is critically important. I represent a lot of rural | |
| areas. How do we get dollars down, because there has been some | |
| consideration this morning about dollars are not really coming | |
| down. Dollars are going to the wrong people who don't really | |
| need it, but in my district, everybody I come in contact with | |
| seems to really need the stimulus dollars to benefit their | |
| families. How do we do that in legislation to make sure that | |
| the dollars that are needed the most by individuals are | |
| stimulating the economy? | |
| Mr. Johnson. Was that question for me? | |
| Mr. Lawson. Yes, sir. | |
| Mr. Johnson. Putting money in people's hands becomes | |
| crucial. That is why we supported the $2,000 stimulus check | |
| that was first stated by the prior President, that many people | |
| now oppose. But we also understand, in terms of the vaccine, | |
| you have to provide access to vaccination closer to where | |
| people live, and if you only provide it through the medical | |
| facilities, you can miss whole communities. Municipalities play | |
| a huge role. Public housing systems play a huge role. | |
| But then, more importantly, to your earlier question about | |
| minimum wage, I have never been able to reconcile this concept | |
| of a free market economy, but we don't want a free market | |
| economy when it comes time to pay people an equitable wage | |
| because people go out of business. We have to pay people their | |
| value, and if we look at what the growth is in terms of the | |
| cost of living, and we are not keeping up the cost of living, | |
| we must supplement or create a space where people can actually | |
| work hard every day and make a living. Every community I have | |
| driven through that appears to be impoverished, I could assure | |
| you those are low-wage workers. We need to raise the floor for | |
| the quality of life. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentleman's | |
| time has expired. The gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Kustoff, is | |
| recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Kustoff. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you for | |
| convening today's hearing, and thank you to all of the | |
| witnesses who have appeared today. | |
| Dr. Strain, if I could talk with you first, you talked in | |
| your testimony in response to other questions about the | |
| enhanced set of employment benefits that we approved in the | |
| CARES Act, and that we renewed, to a lesser level, back in | |
| December. I will tell you that in my district, I have heard | |
| from ``X'' number of employers who told me that they literally | |
| could not get employees to come back to work when they were | |
| receiving those unemployment benefits because they were | |
| literally making more money with these enhanced unemployment | |
| benefits than they were pre-pandemic. | |
| And I will say, with the passage of the CARES Act that we | |
| passed in March, I think we did a lot of things right, as a | |
| Congress, and we did it on a strong bipartisan basis. But my | |
| recollection is that when Secretary Mnuchin, who was | |
| essentially the lead negotiator for the Trump Administration, | |
| talked about the $600 enhanced unemployment benefit, he | |
| essentially said that was a median number. | |
| So my question to you is a little bit wonky, and that is, | |
| if we do approve additional enhanced unemployment benefits, is | |
| there a way to make that locality-based, based on cost of | |
| living for an area? I represent Tennessee, so in my area-- | |
| Arkansas, Mississippi--the cost of living is lower than in | |
| California, New York, and New Jersey. Is there a way for us to | |
| do that, as a Congress, and with the Biden Administration? | |
| Mr. Strain. Congressman, it is a really good question. I | |
| think we saw in the ability of State Governments to administer | |
| unemployment benefits, the inability to handle even the $600 | |
| increase, suggests that their capacity to do something | |
| complicated like that is unfortunately limited. I think you are | |
| right to be thinking about ways to mitigate the damage that | |
| those unemployment benefits could do. | |
| I think a similar solution is just to do them at a much | |
| lower level than $400, or not do them at all, and to make sure | |
| that they stay in effect for a relatively short period of time, | |
| certainly not until September. | |
| When Congress appropriated the $600 as part of the CARES | |
| Act in March, that was an extremely unusual circumstance. The | |
| idea behind the $600, as you said, was to replace completely | |
| the income that unemployed workers would lose when they lost | |
| their job. The reason why that was reasonable to do was because | |
| you did not want unemployed workers trying to find another job, | |
| and the reason you didn't want them trying to find another job | |
| was because if they were trying to find another job, they would | |
| be spreading the virus. This was in March and April when we did | |
| the lockdown. Keep everybody at home. Don't go to work unless | |
| you absolutely have to. Certainly, don't be trying to find a | |
| new job. | |
| That is just not the situation we are in anymore. If we | |
| thought the $600 would keep workers from trying to find a job | |
| in March and April, certainly it is going to keep them from | |
| trying to find a job in July, August, and September, when the | |
| vaccine is going to be in wide distribution. So, I really think | |
| that this is a damaging proposal. | |
| Mr. Kustoff. Thank you very much, Dr. Strain. | |
| Mr. Anthony, if there is another stimulus bill that, in | |
| fact, appropriates money, replaced money for cities, as you | |
| talked about in your testimony, first of all, if you were | |
| writing the bill, would you write in a population threshold for | |
| a city or municipality? And if the answer is yes, what is that | |
| number? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Thank you, Congressman. That has been a | |
| question that many have asked. I think that our perspective as | |
| the National League of Cities is that every mayor, no matter | |
| the size of their community, has been elected to lead and to | |
| make decisions on behalf of that community. And if I then had | |
| to make a formula decision, I would use the Community | |
| Development Block Grant formula, that gets it down to $50,000, | |
| and would require that if money is sent to the State for those | |
| smaller cities, that it be transferred immediately, within 30 | |
| days of receipt of those dollars, down to those communities. | |
| Mr. Kustoff. Thank you. My time has expired. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentleman from | |
| Guam, Mr. San Nicholas, who is also the Vice Chair of this | |
| committee, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. San Nicholas. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman, and | |
| thank you for convening this very important hearing. I think it | |
| is doing a huge service to the American people by allowing them | |
| to really vet the conversations that we are having and to | |
| address what is on the table and also how to speak towards | |
| misnomers that are circulating regarding what is happening | |
| next. I would like to thank our witnesses on the panel for | |
| making time to be with us today. | |
| Madam Chairwoman, I want to address some of these | |
| misperceptions. That way, the American people can have clarity. | |
| First, there is a misperception out there that there is $1 | |
| trillion kind of just sitting out there, that we have already | |
| approved, that is not being spent, and it is creating the | |
| perception that we have money out there that has been made | |
| available that is somehow just not being used. | |
| Mr. Anthony, based on your experience, is it true that $1 | |
| trillion in relief is languishing and wasting away or is it | |
| largely programmed by our States, our cities, and our local | |
| governments? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Yes, Congressman. I think that we know, again, | |
| we were not prepared for a pandemic. No one was. And so if | |
| those dollars have gotten to State and local governments, there | |
| had to be an infrastructure created and a plan. And what we are | |
| seeing is that the States, as well as the mayors and counties, | |
| have those programs, and now those dollars are going to be | |
| spent. | |
| And we also must recognize there is a lagging economy that | |
| is happening. We haven't even seen the worst of what is going | |
| to happen. So, thank you, Congressman. | |
| Mr. San Nicholas. Thank you. Yes, and we are having the | |
| same experience in my district. The money is not languishing | |
| out there. It is being programmed. It has a purpose, and the | |
| purpose is to fulfill the intent of the Congress to make sure | |
| that we are addressing the COVID-19 circumstances and the | |
| relief that needs to go out to our communities. | |
| Mr. Anthony. That is correct. | |
| Mr. San Nicholas. I am looking forward to our local | |
| governments deploying those resources expeditiously, but the | |
| funds that we made available is not somehow money that can all | |
| of a sudden be reprogrammed. It has already been programmed. | |
| Second, there is a misnomer out there that was reiterated | |
| by, I am not sure if it was Dr. Strain, but it is the idea that | |
| the Federal Pandemic Unemployment Compensation (FPUC) was | |
| somehow provided to prevent people from going back to work. We | |
| are talking about the additional supplemental $600, $300, now | |
| $400. That is absolutely incorrect. The purpose of that | |
| resource was because we have millions of Americans who are now | |
| relying on unemployment, and the unemployment compensation | |
| provided by their unemployment insurance in their State, and in | |
| my district, is insufficient to meet the cash flow strains that | |
| they are suffering from because they are no longer able to | |
| work. That supplement is being used to make up the difference | |
| between what they are receiving in unemployment insurance and | |
| what they were actually earning. | |
| And to be perfectly honest, that difference is still very | |
| insufficient: $600 was insufficient; $400 was insufficient; and | |
| $300 is insufficient. And the fact that we are at least | |
| providing something is keeping families from going from being | |
| able to provide, what they are doing for their communities and | |
| bringing money into their households, to now at least having | |
| unemployment, whatever paltry sum that is they are receiving in | |
| their respective districts, plus the supplement that is going | |
| out to support them. | |
| The idea also that we have to engage in a protracted | |
| deficit at this time has me very concerned. We entertained an | |
| amendment just the other day that would have locked up the | |
| ability of this committee to be able to provide any relief | |
| whatsoever if we did not find a budgetary offset. Now, of | |
| course, we should always be mindful of the deficit, but I am | |
| going to ask a very elementary question to Dr. Spriggs, and | |
| forgive me for the elementary nature of it. But is the time for | |
| us to be addressing Federal spending during the pandemic we are | |
| enduring now, or should it be during times of economic | |
| stability? | |
| Dr. Spriggs? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you, Congressman, for that question. It | |
| should be in times that are normal. We are actually in a war. | |
| The virus has killed more Americans than we lost to combat in | |
| World War II. This is not the time to be looking at a budget. | |
| Now is the time to be looking at, are we successfully winning | |
| our war against this virus? That has to be the number-one | |
| priority. That is what is killing our economy. We cannot heal | |
| the economy until we heal the virus. | |
| Mr. San Nicholas. Thank you, Dr. Spriggs. Madam Chairwoman, | |
| thank you so much, again, for convening this hearing, and | |
| again, thank you to our witnesses for making time for us today. | |
| I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman from Missouri, Mr. | |
| Luetkemeyer, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Luetkemeyer. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I thank | |
| our witnesses for being here this morning. I certainly | |
| appreciate their willingness to be here and inform us. | |
| But I would like to take a moment, before I begin my | |
| testimony, my questioning, to point out that the testimony for | |
| this hearing was not posted until last night, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| If the Majority wants to have a serious discussion regarding | |
| the needs of American consumers and businesses during this | |
| pandemic, and what Congress should do to enhance economic | |
| recovery, giving Members less than 12 hours overnight to review | |
| and prepare for this hearing is unacceptable. If this was any | |
| indication for how the Majority intends to operate the 117th | |
| Congress, I have serious concerns over what we are trying to | |
| accomplish here. So, I would appreciate more timely responses | |
| by the witnesses and/or the Majority staff who is in charge. | |
| With that, first question. With regards to the stimulus, it | |
| is interesting that Lawrence Summers, who was President | |
| Clinton's Treasury Secretary, and the top economist for Barack | |
| Obama's Administration, Jason Furman [inaudible] the concern | |
| with this pouring of more money into the economy, feeling it | |
| may overheat and cause inflation. Mr. Strain, what would you | |
| say in response to that concern? | |
| Mr. Strain. I share that concern. I think it is commonly | |
| argued that right now, Congress should err on the side of doing | |
| more rather than doing less, and I think that is a reasonable | |
| way to think about the problem, given the balance of risks. I | |
| think there are more risks to doing too little than to doing | |
| too much. | |
| But that is not to say that Congress should pass another | |
| stimulus that is untethered to an assessment of the actual | |
| economic need. The actual economic need is maybe a few hundred | |
| million dollars, something like that. And so, you want to have | |
| the fudge factor to do more than less. But there are real risks | |
| to dumping another $2 trillion on the economy right now, and | |
| one of those risks is a few months where there is some | |
| troubling price inflation. | |
| Mr. Luetkemeyer. One of the things that concerns me is, | |
| there is some money in here, about $350 billion, to bail out | |
| the States. Now, I realize some of the States are struggling a | |
| little bit, but in my own State of Missouri, we ended the | |
| lockdown in mid-May. In 2020, we had a 5 percent increase in | |
| revenue over 2019. Yes, last year we had an increase in revenue | |
| over 2019. We have a 4.4 percent unemployment rate, and over | |
| 200,000 jobs that are being unfilled right now. | |
| It seems as though there are a number of States which are | |
| well-managed, from the standpoint of the COVID problem, and | |
| their own budgets and revenues now. It would appear that this | |
| $350 billion is going to bail out some States that are not very | |
| well-managed. What would your comment be on that, Mr. Strain? | |
| Mr. Strain. Look, Congressman, I think you are right that | |
| as a general matter, State and local finances are looking a lot | |
| better than many people thought that they would, and a good | |
| number of States are basically even with 2019, in terms of | |
| revenue. That really varies from State to State. States that | |
| rely a great deal on tourism have taken a big hit. States that | |
| rely relatively more on sales taxes from in-person activities | |
| have taken a big hit. | |
| And so I do think that, looking across all of the States, | |
| there is a hole in terms of revenue of around $100 billion to | |
| $150 billion. And so, I think it is appropriate for Congress to | |
| help States with pandemic-related revenue losses, but not to | |
| help States that just use rainy-day funds, not to help States | |
| bail out pensions. And there are some States that aren't going | |
| to need that much help at all. | |
| Mr. Luetkemeyer. I appreciate that. Yes, I can tell you, I | |
| live very close to the Lake of the Ozarks there in central | |
| Missouri, which is one of the premier recreational | |
| destinations, especially in the summertime. And they actually | |
| had a record amount of visitation last year. So, I think being | |
| open is a big key. It is interesting to me, with the COVID | |
| lockdowns--and I have made this comment before--you look at | |
| Florida and New York and they are roughly the same population; | |
| one is 21 million and the other is 19 million. New York had | |
| only twice as many deaths last year due to COVID as what | |
| Florida did. And yet, Florida is open and California is locked | |
| down, and Florida has a greater elderly population, probably, | |
| than New York. | |
| So, as a result, I am concerned that we are trying to bail | |
| somebody out here instead of actually giving money to--putting | |
| it in places where it actually needs to be targeted to be | |
| helpful. | |
| I understand my time is up. Thank you very much for your | |
| responses. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Luetkemeyer, | |
| and there are many things that I think I could advise you about | |
| publicly. The ranking member and I have an agreement to work | |
| out our concerns, and we are in charge, so I didn't appreciate | |
| your comments earlier. | |
| Mr. Luetkemeyer. I appreciate getting information on time. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentlewoman from Iowa, Mrs. Axne, is | |
| now recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mrs. Axne. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you, | |
| everyone, for being here today. | |
| Mr. Anthony, I would like to start with you. Cities and | |
| towns, of course, across the country have been fighting to | |
| support people and the communities for the last year as COVID | |
| hit our shores, and I know that nationally, we have lost about | |
| 1 million jobs in the State and local government sectors. One | |
| of the areas that I have been really focused on, and this | |
| committee has as well, is housing. Could you tell us a little | |
| bit about how the budget losses and the job losses for State | |
| and local government employees have made it more difficult to | |
| keep people in their homes, and what are some of the steps that | |
| you have had to take to overcome that? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question. I | |
| spoke earlier about the eviction level. We are looking at about | |
| 40 million renters who are on the cliff of being evicted. | |
| The second data point is that this is a pent-up loss for | |
| even real estate owners of about $7 million of revenue or | |
| renter income that will be lost. | |
| And the final thing is, in city governments and local | |
| governments, period, we are seeing homelessness increase. So we | |
| are dealing with all of those issues and responding. And I | |
| think what this relief package would do is it would help us to | |
| be able to provide programming for those challenges. | |
| Mrs. Axne. I appreciate you saying that, and I thank you so | |
| much, because one thing I know can be an issue for so many of | |
| our constituents during this time is finding the help that they | |
| need and the different programs that are available to them, in | |
| a timeframe by which they need them. | |
| So what can you tell us about how we are helping people | |
| navigate some of these programs so that they can keep a roof | |
| over their heads? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Cities all over America have created rental | |
| assistance programs during this time, but first of all, helping | |
| to get those dollars specifically to nonprofits and to create | |
| programs so that people will be able to come in and get those | |
| dollars. Mayors and councilmembers have created small business | |
| programs as well, small business loan programs, rental | |
| assistance programs, and I think that if we think about the | |
| level of government where people can knock on the front doors | |
| of mayors and the city halls, it is local government. | |
| So, I think that what we are asking for is direct dollars. | |
| We know that we have lost over 1 million jobs. We anticipate | |
| more than $90 billion of additional revenue loss this year. So, | |
| I am begging that we get the dollars out to that level. But I | |
| appreciate that question because it has been desperate in some | |
| cities, not all, but I will tell you that in 95 percent of the | |
| cities--rural, small, as well as urban--the homeless challenge | |
| is increasing. | |
| Mrs. Axne. It is an issue that we face right here in Des | |
| Moines, Iowa, so I absolutely understand. And that fits, | |
| actually, really well, with something that I have been working | |
| on since last spring, which is getting more resources for | |
| housing counselors, who can help people figure out what is | |
| going on, how they can save their money, how they can stay in | |
| their homes, et cetera. | |
| You brought up some facts here, but the last estimates I | |
| saw showed almost $60 billion in rental assistance is needed, | |
| and with the forbearance that has been offered for mortgages, I | |
| think a lot of people are going to need help with that. And, of | |
| course, we saw, after the 2008 financial crisis, that 2 million | |
| people who worked with housing counselors were 3 times as | |
| likely to get loan modifications and then not go into | |
| foreclosure or redefault, which is a great thing for our | |
| communities. | |
| Many of those same benefits--lower costs, more stable | |
| housing--can also help renters when they are in tough straits, | |
| like you mentioned. Ms. Murguia, or anyone else, does that seem | |
| like something--these housing counselors--that we could benefit | |
| from right now? | |
| Ms. Murguia. Yes. Thank you, Congresswoman. I really | |
| appreciate your leadership on this. I know you have seen and | |
| understood the efficacy of using housing counseling programs | |
| and those community-based organizations, those nonprofits, who | |
| are so effective in reinforcing the importance of the steps to | |
| be taken, the information that needs to be provided, to the | |
| most hurt families, the most impacted families, and their | |
| success rate, as you pointed out, is really high. | |
| So, the $700 million-plus for COVID housing counseling | |
| assistance is absolutely necessary. UnidosUS has the largest | |
| Hispanic housing counseling network in the country, and we have | |
| seen first-hand the role that they play, because they are | |
| trusted partners; they have the cultural and language | |
| competencies to be able to provide that service. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. The gentlewoman's time has | |
| expired. | |
| Mrs. Axne. Thank you. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Gonzalez, | |
| is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Quick | |
| check, Dr. Strain, can you hear me? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, sir. | |
| Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Yes, very good. Thank you. First, I | |
| want to just comment on a couple of things. Some of my friends | |
| on the other side of the aisle have commented that, now is not | |
| the time to worry about deficit spending or where it is going, | |
| and I would offer this. | |
| We are in a pandemic. There is an emergency, and there is a | |
| need to act. I agree with that. But I would offer that it is | |
| always our responsibility to make sure that we are spending | |
| taxpayer dollars wisely and effectively. That is always a | |
| priority. You never get to put that on hold. And I think what | |
| we have done to date has been pretty good, not perfect. But | |
| when we are talking about a $1.9 trillion bill, which, let's be | |
| honest, the justification is pretty poor for a lot of the | |
| spending in there, and a lot of it would be wasteful, I can't | |
| possibly support it. | |
| The second thing I would say is, if there is one thing that | |
| President Biden said in his inaugural address that I think | |
| every single Republican agreed with, and most across the | |
| country, it is that we need to come together. We do need to | |
| come together as one country and solve our problems, and we | |
| need to take the temperature down politically. Unfortunately, | |
| everything that has been done from that speech to today, | |
| including this spending bill, has gone completely counter to | |
| that. And so, I would ask my Democratic colleagues, whom I know | |
| are sincere in this, please help on that, because I will help | |
| anybody who wants to work on that. I don't care who you are. | |
| But if we are going to just jam wish list items, like a $15 | |
| minimum wage, which we know isn't a bipartisan solution, if we | |
| are going to jam a $1.9 trillion spending bill with no | |
| Republican votes, that is not going to bring anybody together, | |
| and you know it. And so, I would ask you to think wisely about | |
| where we are as a country, culturally, emotionally, before we | |
| go down that path. And it sounds like that train has already | |
| left the station, but I would ask you to think twice. | |
| Now, Dr. Strain, you talked about the unemployment rate. | |
| Currently, where is the bulk of the unemployment? What sectors | |
| of the economy? | |
| Mr. Strain. The sectors of the economy that have been hit | |
| the hardest are sectors that feature in-person interaction, so | |
| sectors like retail, trade, leisure, and hospitality. Those are | |
| the sectors that have borne the brunt of unemployment. | |
| Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. And a $15 minimum wage would do what | |
| to those sectors? | |
| Mr. Strain. It would be a major challenge to workers in | |
| those sectors and a major challenge to businesses in those | |
| sectors as well. | |
| Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Yes, I would argue it would be | |
| completely counterproductive, and we asked, where is the | |
| unemployment? It is not an interest rate question. It is not a | |
| stimulus check issue. It is a virus issue. I think we all know | |
| that, and I think that is what you are saying, and that screams | |
| towards quickly getting targeted relief in the form of | |
| vaccines, testing, and anything we can do to defeat the virus. | |
| The faster we defeat the virus, the faster we come back. Now, | |
| we could pass that, I would argue, with broad bipartisan | |
| support later tonight if we wanted to. | |
| And then, the second piece I want to touch on is the | |
| stimulus checks. You mentioned in your testimony--you say, for | |
| example, direct checks to households earning six-figure incomes | |
| that have not experienced employment loss are an unnecessary | |
| and imprudent use of government spending. I agree with that 100 | |
| percent. Have you seen anyone anywhere who has intellectually | |
| or economically justified the notion that we would be paying | |
| people thousands of dollars who have not been economically | |
| harmed by the pandemic? What is the rationale for that? Have | |
| you seen it? | |
| Mr. Strain. Congressman, I haven't seen a rationale that I | |
| found compelling to support those checks. I think you could | |
| make an argument for targeting checks that went to low-income | |
| households that have been really hurting in this economy. But | |
| checks to households earning $150,000, $200,000, and up, there | |
| really is just very little justification for that policy. | |
| Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Yes, thank you for that. I agree. I | |
| want to be targeted. I want to help. Anybody who has been | |
| affected by the COVID pandemic economically, I want to be there | |
| to help them. I think most Republicans would agree with that. | |
| This overshoots by a mile, and, again, I would encourage my | |
| Democratic colleagues to come back and work with us. I yield | |
| back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. The gentleman's time has | |
| expired. The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Casten, is recognized | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Casten. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And thank you to | |
| our witnesses. Before I start with my questions, I want to just | |
| respond to something Mr. Barr said. He had noted that a lot of | |
| the public is watching us right now, and it is really important | |
| to understand this budget reconciliation process. This isn't | |
| about being partisan, nonpartisan, or bipartisan. We pass | |
| things by majority rule. The Senate has this goofy filibuster | |
| rule that certain things require 60 votes, and budget | |
| reconciliation is the way we pass things by simple majority. | |
| The last time that my colleagues across the aisle controlled | |
| everything--the House, the Senate, and the White House--they | |
| used budget reconciliation to pass a massive tax cut to | |
| corporations and to take away people's healthcare. | |
| Now that we are in control, we are using budget | |
| reconciliation to address the fact that we are in a pandemic | |
| that has killed 443,000 Americans, and left 12 percent of | |
| Americans hungry, and 60 million people out of work. That is | |
| the right way to use your majority. I do not apologize for it, | |
| and please do not say that this is somehow not worth doing in | |
| the name of bipartisanship or question why that [inaudible]. | |
| I want to move from there to a question for Mr. Spriggs. We | |
| have done a lot of funding so far. We have a lot of support for | |
| small businesses. The PPP program, while it had some slow | |
| rollouts and some hiccups that we are all aware of, has really | |
| been a lifeline for a lot of small businesses, certainly in my | |
| district and across the country. But I think we have lost sight | |
| of the fact that it was designed, first and foremost, to | |
| protect labor. There were no credit checks. It was run with the | |
| SBA. The size of your loan was a function of your employment, | |
| and your ability to convert that into a grant was a function of | |
| making sure that you used it for labor. Again, not perfect, but | |
| it has kept a bunch of people off of unemployment rolls, off of | |
| welfare, not needing COBRA, and out of needing food assistance. | |
| Because we could not get support across the aisle to | |
| support State and local funding, the PPP has really protected | |
| people who work for the private sector or certain classes, | |
| nonprofits. And following your introductory comments, Mr. | |
| Spriggs, we have had about 1.3 million public sector job losses | |
| since February. Correct me if I'm wrong on the math. If we do | |
| not get State and local aid, Mr. Spriggs, do you think that | |
| that 1.3 million number will increase, decrease, or stabilize? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you for the question, Congressman. If | |
| you don't provide the direct aid, and you have heard this | |
| directly from Mayor Anthony, we are going to continue to lose | |
| jobs at the time we need those workers in place, both to | |
| implement the plans, as the mayor pointed out, that cities and | |
| local communities are trying to put in place, but also to make | |
| sure that we have a full court press in getting people | |
| vaccinated, because we can't do this from the air. We cannot | |
| just do this using the internet and assume that people can log | |
| on and make appointments. This is going to take direct action | |
| from the local level and local governments. | |
| Mr. Casten. Thank you. Mr. Anthony, is there anything you | |
| would like to add to that? Personally, like we all do, I have a | |
| neighbor who is a schoolteacher. I have friends who are cops. | |
| They didn't get any of this protection. Anything you would like | |
| to add or put color on [inaudible]? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Yes, I would just add that Dr. Spriggs has | |
| said it very clearly. If we really want our economy to come | |
| back, it has to start at the local level, and get done quickly. | |
| Our leaders are able to deal with, through distributions, PPE | |
| and the vaccine distribution and education. I know that our | |
| mayors and council members from our rural, as well as urban, | |
| communities are ready to partner with the Federal Government to | |
| get us back on the right track. So thank you, Congressman. | |
| Mr. Casten. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Strain, I have been | |
| reading a little bit of your bio, and I am a Dartmouth guy, so | |
| I won't hold your Cornell degree against you. But if I am | |
| following right, you went to work at the Fed in 2005, and the | |
| Census Bureau in 2008, and you have been AEI since 2012, right? | |
| Do I have that timeline about right? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, that is about right, Congressman. | |
| Mr. Casten. I am not going to ask you for particulars, but | |
| have you had any raises during that period? | |
| Mr. Strain. Have I had any raises? | |
| Mr. Casten. Yes, has your salary gone up since the 2008 | |
| time frame? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, my salary has gone up. | |
| Mr. Casten. Mine has, as well. As you have earned more | |
| money, did you find that you increased your spending? Do you go | |
| out to dinner more often? Do you ever buy a nicer car, buy a | |
| nicer house? | |
| Mr. Strain. I did not buy a nicer car, but I have increased | |
| my spending. | |
| Mr. Casten. I mention that because the Federal minimum wage | |
| has not gone up during that period. It has been locked since | |
| 2009. And as you run your economic forecasts that presume that | |
| somehow if you raise wages to the wealthiest, they will | |
| increase their spending and live a nicer life, but if you raise | |
| it for the poorest, they are not going to be willing to pay | |
| more for a sandwich [inaudible] suggested by some of your math. | |
| Thank you. I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentleman from | |
| Tennessee, Mr. Rose, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Rose. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thanks to | |
| Ranking Member McHenry and Representative Hill for having this | |
| committee hearing today. I am [inaudible] into the 117th | |
| Congress. I am grateful that we are finally getting under way | |
| with the business of the country. | |
| Today, we are discussing the next COVID stimulus package | |
| before the ink has even dried on the last one. As my colleagues | |
| have cited, Republicans and Democrats have negotiated 5 COVID | |
| relief packages totaling $3.5 trillion to address the pandemic | |
| and the economic crisis. A significant portion of the funds | |
| Congress has already allocated are yet to be spent by agencies, | |
| and I believe that before providing additional relief, we must | |
| do a thoughtful review of the programs that have been most | |
| effective and then determine whether to place additional | |
| targeted funds. | |
| Our economy is recovering. The best way to stimulate | |
| economic growth is to safely reopen businesses and schools. Our | |
| focus now needs to be on providing timely, targeted, and | |
| temporary funding to ensure adequate testing and vaccination | |
| supplies get to States across the country. Finally, I would be | |
| remiss if I didn't mention that I find this hearing to be | |
| largely a show, as Democrats in the House, Senate, and the | |
| White House have already moved forward on the path to pass | |
| another COVID package that would completely cut out the voices | |
| and input of Congressional Republicans. | |
| Over the past few weeks, I have spoken with private, not- | |
| for-profit colleges back home in Tennessee, and they are | |
| distressed by President Biden's and the Democrats' stimulus | |
| plan. The President's plan includes funding for all public | |
| colleges and universities, but fails to acknowledge the | |
| majority of private, nonprofit institutions that have felt the | |
| repercussions of this pandemic just like their public | |
| counterparts. There are more than 1,700 degree-granting | |
| private, nonprofit colleges and universities located across the | |
| country which collectively enroll over 5.1 million students and | |
| provide more than 1.2 million administration, faculty, and | |
| staff jobs to the economy. Low-income students, students | |
| regardless of their college choice, face increased challenges | |
| during this time as well as members of faculty and staff. While | |
| these institutions have had access to Federal relief through | |
| the CARES Act, we cannot cut them out of future relief. | |
| Dr. Strain, do you believe there should be parity in the | |
| treatment of these higher education institutions, and could you | |
| speak to the potential negative effects of treating them | |
| differently? | |
| Mr. Strain. Thank you, Congressman. I think as a general | |
| matter, pandemic-related relief should be broad-based and | |
| should be available to businesses that meet a certain | |
| threshold. I think it was appropriate, for example, to limit | |
| PPP grants to businesses of a certain size class. I think it | |
| would be inappropriate to target relief on specific industries | |
| or the specific characteristics of businesses in those | |
| industries. | |
| Mr. Rose. Thank you. We have talked extensively about how | |
| the $15-per-hour minimum wage would destroy millions of jobs, | |
| and I think we can all agree that at a time when our national | |
| unemployment has only just begun to recover from the economic | |
| pain imposed by the COVID-19 lockdown last year, we should not | |
| be jeopardizing the economic security of more than a million | |
| American workers. Dr. Strain, can you discuss the | |
| disproportional negative impact this one-size-fits-all approach | |
| would have on smaller and rural communities like those in the | |
| 6th District of Tennessee? | |
| Mr. Strain. I think it would have a significant impact, | |
| Congressman. I think in many American States that are more | |
| rural, you have a lot more workers who earn lower wages in the | |
| labor market. And if you are talking about doubling the minimum | |
| wage in those States or more than doubling it, you are talking | |
| about a policy that is going to impact directly, one-third, | |
| pushing up to the really middle-of-the-wage distribution | |
| workers in that State. And that is just going to make it a lot | |
| harder for them to find jobs. | |
| Mr. Rose. Thank you, and I see my time has expired. Madam | |
| Chairwoman, I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentlewoman | |
| from Massachusetts, Ms. Pressley, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you to | |
| our witnesses for joining us here today. We have been living | |
| with this pandemic and the disparities that it has laid bare | |
| for nearly a year, and yet we have consistently fallen short of | |
| fully delivering relief than meets the scale and scope of | |
| people's hurt. These hearings are a critically important | |
| reminder that our work is not done. | |
| The stock market may have recovered, but our communities | |
| have not. My colleague across the aisle said this feels like a | |
| show. Well, in this show, we are centering on the American | |
| people, and it is important that we never lose sight of the | |
| plot, and the plot is the people. The inherent and outstanding | |
| disparities in our public health and economic systems, coupled | |
| with the slow and inequitable rollout of vaccination efforts | |
| across this country, mean that our hardest-hit communities-- | |
| Black, Brown, indigenous--will continue to shoulder the burden | |
| of the pandemic and will be the last to recover, if at all. In | |
| fact, a CBO report projects that while the economy may rebound | |
| in the next year, it will take until 2024 for employment to | |
| return to pre-pandemic levels. | |
| Mr. Spriggs, for those who look to conflate the two, can | |
| you please explain the consequences of an economic recovery | |
| without a labor recovery? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you, Congresswoman. We have had this | |
| problem in our economy for the last several recoveries where we | |
| have the economy rebound much quicker than the labor market, so | |
| we have to pay attention to that. When we look at things like | |
| unemployment assistance and people projecting when they think | |
| the economy will recover versus when the labor market will | |
| recover, we have to have our ears open, because in September, | |
| it isn't clear whether the labor market will recover. It is | |
| hopeful that because of the vaccinations, our economy will be | |
| much closer to normal operation. But workers will still find it | |
| very difficult to reconnect, and the additional support in | |
| their unemployment insurance will still be necessary. | |
| So, we cannot do what we did in the past, which is have | |
| everyone declare a victory because the stock market is up or | |
| because the unemployment rate nationally is 5 percent or 4\1/2\ | |
| percent. | |
| Ms. Pressley. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Spriggs. That is not cause for celebration. | |
| Ms. Pressley. Thank you. And we know that women of color | |
| accounted for all jobs reported lost in December. So what does | |
| a slow labor recovery mean for them specifically? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. This is why we need to act now, because when | |
| you are unemployed for more than 6 months, it becomes | |
| increasingly difficult for you to find a job. If people become | |
| homeless, then it becomes impossible, and so we can't let this | |
| story take place. We need to get the labor market back as | |
| quickly as we can to have a robust labor market, which is why | |
| we must raise the minimum wage, because it is specifically | |
| Black women who would be left behind if we continue on the path | |
| we are on now. While most Americans are on their way to a $15 | |
| minimum wage, it is disproportionately Black women who are not, | |
| and we need robust wage growth so that we can have sustained | |
| growth, and so that these kinds of recovery efforts won't be as | |
| expensive to the government and our economy won't be as | |
| fragile. | |
| Ms. Pressley. Thank you. And so to that end, since Black | |
| women are disproportionately bearing the brunt of this hurt, | |
| and that certainly is true when it comes to housing, there is | |
| an ACLU analysis of national eviction data. Black women were | |
| filed against for eviction at double the rate of White renters, | |
| and were more likely to be denied housing because of it. In my | |
| district, the Massachusetts 7th, the report found that during | |
| the first month of the pandemic, 78 percent of all evictions in | |
| Boston were filed in communities of color. | |
| So that is why I am partnering with Representatives Tlaib, | |
| Ocasio-Cortez, and Neguse to introduce the Emergency | |
| Homelessness Assistance Act, to provide nearly $5 billion | |
| dollars in additional funding to support those experiencing | |
| homelessness. It is responsive to the needs of community and | |
| the hurt that people are experiencing. This funding includes | |
| support for additional vouchers and the acquisition and | |
| development of non-congregate shelters. Mr. Anthony, many | |
| cities have looked to purchase and convert hotels and motels | |
| into shelter spaces. Why is it critical to give cities and | |
| local providers the flexibility to make these long-term | |
| investments? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question. | |
| And you know very well, being a former city council member in | |
| Boston, the challenges that local governments are facing. We | |
| need that flexibility. We need the resources first and the | |
| flexibility to create solutions that will address our local | |
| needs specifically to the cities, and we thank you for your | |
| support on that. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. The gentlewoman's time has | |
| expired. The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Steil, is recognized | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Steil. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I appreciate your | |
| recalling us back in here a month into Congress. Some of our | |
| colleagues here are in a big hurry to spend more taxpayer | |
| dollars and enact a liberal wish list. And just a few months | |
| ago, we were sitting here in this committee, and committee | |
| Democrats on this committee referred to that liberal spending | |
| wish list as Washington gamesmanship, party politics. One | |
| member described it as a waste of time, but here we are. | |
| This is not what Wisconsin wants. It is not what the | |
| country wants. People in Wisconsin, people across the country, | |
| we want to get back to work. We want our way of life back. We | |
| want to get back to work. Let's talk about where we are today. | |
| Congress and President Trump have already provided $4 trillion | |
| in coronavirus relief, including $915 billion that was | |
| authorized less than 6 weeks ago, and I know, that is what Joe | |
| Biden calls a down payment. But by the latest estimates, almost | |
| a trillion dollars of that has been allocated has not yet been | |
| spent. | |
| And so, let's conceptualize what this means. We have | |
| already provided $12,000 for every single person in the United | |
| States. That is $48,000 for a family of four. You can buy a new | |
| Cadillac car with that kind of money. And about a third of it-- | |
| and this is what is important--nearly $4,000 per person, hasn't | |
| even been spent. And now my colleagues want to move forward and | |
| spend another $1.9 trillion, rammed through on a party-line | |
| vote. That is another $5,700 per person. | |
| And a big portion of these funds would be earmarked for | |
| projects like bailing out States, States like Illinois, that | |
| have been fiscally irresponsible for years. The Illinois | |
| Pension Fund system is absolutely out of control. Meanwhile, in | |
| my home State of Wisconsin, as in many other States, tax | |
| collections turned out to be better than expected. The | |
| Wisconsin Department of Administration just a few days ago | |
| reported that, ``Our State's fiscal condition has remained | |
| remarkably resilient,'' pointing out the continued tax revenue | |
| growth in States like Illinois. Why should Wisconsin have to | |
| bail out States like Illinois? They should not. | |
| But wait, there is more. My colleagues also want to use | |
| this package to push through a whole host of job-killing | |
| measures. Killing the Keystone Pipeline and private sector | |
| infrastructure is not enough. And I appreciate, Dr. Strain, you | |
| discussing some of these policy proposals today. We are living | |
| in a time when far too many small businesses have shut their | |
| doors and workers are out of work. Sixty-one percent of adults | |
| in the United States are currently in the labor force. We | |
| haven't seen labor force rates at this level consistently since | |
| the Carter Administration. If we want to get people back to | |
| work, now is not the time for job-killing ideas. | |
| It is time to slow down the spending spree, and focus, | |
| focus, focus. Focus on what is important. Focus on getting | |
| vaccines to everyone who wants one. Focus on getting kids back | |
| in the classroom. Focus on reopening the economy safely and | |
| responsibly. And the spending spree that we are discussing here | |
| today does not do that. I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentleman from | |
| Massachusetts, Mr. Lynch, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I want to thank | |
| the witnesses as well for your attendance and your testimony. | |
| Mr. Spriggs and Mr. Anthony, in my area, we have, and I | |
| think in most cities around the country, we have a real mix of | |
| small landlords, and then we have some major housing developers | |
| as well. Frankly, I have been surprised at the willingness of a | |
| lot of landlords, big and small, to exercise forbearance with | |
| their tenants. That is just what I am seeing in my community. | |
| Some of my big landlords have come out ahead of Congress, ahead | |
| of the CDC to say, you know what? We are not going to evict | |
| anyone. We are going to work with you. And yet, at the same | |
| time, those big landlords now are saying, look, we have a large | |
| number of workers, electricians, plumbers, laborers, carpenters | |
| that they have kept on the payroll to make sure that the | |
| quality of life in those big developments is maintained. And, | |
| again, I have smaller landlords who are really, because they | |
| only have one or two rental units, really hard-pressed. | |
| Mr. Spriggs and Mr. Anthony, could you talk about what you | |
| are seeing and what you are hearing from your positions and | |
| what you might recommend in terms of providing relief to those | |
| small landlords, and also the larger responsible landlords that | |
| have been trying to do the right thing? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Yes. I will go first, Congressman, and thank | |
| you for the question. This is why rent assistance is necessary. | |
| It is the best way to help out the landlords, and it is, in | |
| many ways, the first way to help out the landlords. If quite | |
| small landlords are in the awkward position of having to demand | |
| arrears all at once, it is going to be a very difficult | |
| situation. You mentioned it is uncomfortable for many small | |
| landlords. That is why I think the most proven and effective | |
| way to do it is through rental assistance. | |
| Mr. Lynch. Thank you. Mr. Anthony? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Yes, I will just quickly add that--thanks, | |
| Congressman--we are looking at a $7 billion backlog of landlord | |
| rent on properties that they own, and I think that we need to | |
| have some assistance there. And local governments are coming up | |
| with programs, rental assistance programs, to stop those | |
| evictions. And the real impact is not happening to the wealthy. | |
| You are finding a lot of us who are blessed, are moving to | |
| rural communities and buying new properties. But those who are | |
| poor can't leave, and they are stuck with the bill of owning | |
| these properties and having to pay full rent. | |
| Mr. Lynch. Ms. Murguia, would you like to add anything to | |
| that, please? | |
| Ms. Murguia. I would. Thank you, Congressman. I think just | |
| building on the previous comments, we are finding, certainly | |
| within our communities of color, Black and Hispanic landlords | |
| are actually more likely to work with tenants to keep them in | |
| their homes, but, yes, they are facing great financial | |
| struggles, too, because of the pandemic. And we do find that | |
| these smaller landlords, especially those paying off a | |
| mortgage, face some of those challenges that we are hearing | |
| about, small businesses and cash-strapped small businesses, | |
| with not enough money in their pockets at the end of the day. | |
| And so, that is why we think this is another opportunity | |
| for the Federal Government to partner with community-based | |
| lenders, including community development financial institutions | |
| (CDFIs), to perhaps deploy short-term aid or low-interest | |
| financing to help struggling landlords with assets and who are | |
| being solvent through this pandemic. Of course, it is nothing | |
| more than just making sure we are able to get direct assistance | |
| and funding into the hands of those renters, and we do know | |
| that our Latino renters, in particular, use any payments that | |
| they are getting to pay for basic needs, like rent. So, I | |
| appreciate your question and the comments of my colleagues. | |
| Mr. Lynch. Thank you. And, Madam Chairwoman, I just want to | |
| thank you. I know you have been focused on this issue like a | |
| laser. I do want to say to some of my Republican colleagues, | |
| you know I love you, but I can tell by the way you talk about | |
| this, that you have never stood in an unemployment line. And I | |
| have, being an ironworker for 20 years, and you are constantly | |
| working yourself out of a job. I think you might have a | |
| different perspective if you had actually stood in an | |
| unemployment line. The fact that you got a check for $1,000, 5 | |
| months ago, really doesn't amount to much. So with that, I | |
| yield back. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you so very much. The gentleman | |
| from South Carolina, Mr. Timmons, is now recognized for 5 | |
| minutes. | |
| Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. The only thing | |
| that is going to solve the problem we are currently in is to | |
| reopen the economy as quickly and safely as possible. It seems | |
| today we are talking about three different buckets of spending. | |
| One is the easier-to-reopen bucket, and that is the bucket that | |
| I believe that we should be focusing most of our time and | |
| effort on. The second bucket is the easier-to-stay-closed | |
| bucket, and while that bucket was appropriate in March of last | |
| year when we had our 15 days to slow the spread, 300-plus days | |
| later it is no longer the best use of our resources, and we | |
| should not throw money into that bucket. And then the last | |
| bucket, and I don't even really know what to call it--I guess | |
| you could call it the progressive wish list, policies that have | |
| no chance of becoming law outside of a global pandemic. You can | |
| call it the let-no-crisis-go-to-waste bucket. | |
| And let's start there. I have heard it proposed that we are | |
| going to cancel $1.7 trillion in student loan debt. That has | |
| nothing to with COVID. There is also granting amnesty to 20 | |
| million illegal immigrants. I want to fix immigration. I think | |
| that is something that we should do this Congress, but the idea | |
| that we would do it through budget reconciliation is just | |
| irresponsible. It is not going to happen, and that is really | |
| not part of COVID relief conversations, that are very | |
| important, when we should be spending our time talking about | |
| politics that will actually help. | |
| A $15 minimum wage? I can tell you what that will do to my | |
| business in Greenville, South Carolina, and the other small | |
| businesses in Greenville and Spartanburg, South Carolina. That | |
| makes a lot of sense in New York City and Chicago, but it will | |
| severely impede our ability to not only successfully overcome | |
| COVID, but to even survive as a small business in my district. | |
| So, a $15 minimum wage just doesn't make sense all across the | |
| country. Now, again, that is not a conversation that I'm | |
| unopposed to having, but one-size-does-not-fit-all. | |
| The second bucket--let's go back--the easier-to-stay-closed | |
| bucket. You have State and local bailouts. Any money spent with | |
| State and local governments should be focused on reopening the | |
| economy safely and quickly. Bailing out unfunded pension | |
| liabilities and poor fiscal policy for the last decade is just | |
| not an appropriate use of Federal tax dollars for COVID relief. | |
| Then, you have stimulus checks for people who make six figures | |
| or more, who have had no income disruption. That is not | |
| appropriate. And unemployment benefits that disincentivize | |
| returning to work also not helpful. | |
| We need to spend all of our time and resources on the first | |
| bucket. How do we make it easier to reopen? Vaccines are | |
| clearly the number one issue there. Anyone who wants a shot | |
| should be able to get it as quickly as possible. That will | |
| allow all of our economy to reopen, and we can get past the | |
| pandemic. Schools are another very important way. Even if we | |
| reopen the economy, if our schools are not reopened, parents | |
| are not going to be able to go to work because they have to | |
| keep the kids at home. We need to give the schools the | |
| resources necessary to reopen. That is additional PPE. That is | |
| additional testing. Whatever the schools need to reopen, that | |
| is what we need to be spending our time and resources on. | |
| Last, but certainly not least, we need to address | |
| businesses that have been disproportionately affected by COVID, | |
| and that is tourism, hotels, and restaurants. We have done | |
| that. We have already spent $3.5 trillion. We can have | |
| conversations about more, depending on how long it takes for | |
| the vaccine to be fully distributed. But we just need to spend | |
| all of our time on how we are going to make it easier to reopen | |
| the economy. We are going to have $30 trillion of debt within | |
| the next year or two, but probably in the next month or two, if | |
| this passes. | |
| The global community is not going to let us borrow $40-, | |
| $50-, or $60 trillion. The only reason we are getting away with | |
| it right now is because the dollar is the global currency and | |
| we are able to spend beyond our means, but the global community | |
| will find alternative currency eventually. And if our debt is | |
| called, if we lose the global currency, our entire economy is | |
| going to fall apart. So, again, we must reopen as safely and as | |
| quickly as possible, and that is where we should be spending | |
| our time and resources. With that, Madam Chairwoman, I yield | |
| back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentlewoman | |
| from Michigan, Ms. Tlaib, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman. Look, I | |
| think the biggest job killer right now in our country and | |
| around the world is COVID, so let's just be very clear. That is | |
| the job killer in our country, and that is what we need to | |
| truly address right now, to pretend that it doesn't even exist, | |
| to talk about these different kinds of economies that are not | |
| connected to the fact that we need to protect our public | |
| health. | |
| Madam Chairwoman, I don't know if you realize this, but the | |
| United States is on a course of losing about 500,000 people. | |
| That is half a million lives lost because of the incompetence | |
| of this past Administration. Just in my home State of Michigan, | |
| we have lost nearly 16,000 of our neighbors. For comparison, in | |
| the entirety of Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and Japan | |
| combined, there has been less than 7,000 deaths. Think about | |
| that for one moment. | |
| It did not have to be this way. The stock market might have | |
| bounced back, but everyday Americans--our neighbors, our | |
| communities, like my residents--are suffering. The measure of | |
| our nation's greatness should not be the gains of Wall Street. | |
| It should be in how our most vulnerable are taken care of. | |
| Since the beginning of the pandemic last March, we have senta | |
| $1,200 check and another $600 check, a total of $1,800 to our | |
| neighbors. That is an average of $163 per month. That is | |
| absolutely shameful. It is the reason why our food bank lines | |
| are growing longer in my district, and people are falling | |
| behind on their rent and losing their homes. | |
| I have been calling for a $2,000 recurring monthly direct | |
| payment since the start of the pandemic. And Mr. Spriggs, I | |
| want to know, if we fail to provide sufficient economic support | |
| for the most vulnerable among us in the coming months, what | |
| will be the impact on our economy and, by extension, on | |
| everyday people? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you, Congresswoman. We are in the | |
| situation we are in because of our high level of inequality. | |
| The size of these packages is an indication of what it takes to | |
| actually fill the gap because people at the bottom of our | |
| income distribution don't have enough money. We scar them and | |
| scar our economy. It will be harder to reconnect them. When we | |
| have the virus under control and employers go to meet with | |
| these workers, it will be harder to find them because they will | |
| have lost their homes. They will have lost contact with the | |
| labor market. We have to keep households engaged and as intact | |
| as possible so that when the economy does recover, people are | |
| spending their money on growth and not on paying back debts. | |
| So the importance here is keeping this growing from not | |
| just the physical, not just the mental, not just the spiritual, | |
| but you don't want economic disparity. | |
| Ms. Tlaib. Absolutely. The vaccine can't fix the problem of | |
| our savings accounts, right? It can probably keep us healthy, | |
| but, again, how does that extend to the fact that this economic | |
| downfall that is happening is going to be something that is | |
| going to be hard to address if we don't do something now? | |
| I represent the third-poorest congressional district. The | |
| majority of my neighbors were living paycheck to paycheck prior | |
| to this pandemic, so just imagine now this layer of issues. I | |
| also want to push back against the deficit hawks and | |
| Republicans who worry more about the budget than getting | |
| Americans money so that they can keep food on their table and a | |
| roof over their head. They had no issue with granting | |
| corporations and the wealthiest of Americans hundreds of | |
| billions of dollars' worth of tax cuts, yet they speak out now | |
| when we need to help everyday Americans, when this is their | |
| money that they are asking for, and they are saying, this is | |
| the time for the government to be about people and to help | |
| them. | |
| So, Dr. Spriggs, do you agree that those billions of | |
| dollars of lost tax revenue could have funded greater financial | |
| relief to our Americans right now? | |
| Mr. Strain. We saw many corporations didn't have the | |
| liquidity they should have had because after we gave the | |
| corporations the tax cut, they found themselves fragile going | |
| into this pandemic. They required government assistance as | |
| well. So those tax cuts didn't build up the reservoir that we | |
| were told would be there to make those corporations much more | |
| resilient. If those corporations with their billions weren't | |
| more resilient, then what does it say of these households | |
| living paycheck to paycheck? | |
| Ms. Tlaib. Thank you. I know my time is up. I apologize. | |
| Thank you so much. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. | |
| Taylor, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Taylor. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I appreciate being | |
| in this hearing. Mr. Anthony, I want to talk to you a little | |
| bit about municipal finance running local governments. I am | |
| very blessed to represent Collin County, Texas, and we have | |
| some very successful cities, and our County is very well-run. | |
| We have some of the safest streets, and some of the best | |
| schools. I think it is a testament to the people in our | |
| community who consistently elect competent leaders who then, in | |
| turn, run fiscally conservative cities, counties, and school | |
| districts. And as such, not only are our taxes low, but we keep | |
| decent reserves in our local governments. And so when COVID-19 | |
| came, we watched a modest drop in municipal revenues, and the | |
| CARES dollars that went to the Collin County government | |
| actually, which is Collin County has about a million, so it got | |
| us a direct CARES dollar contribution. That money was then | |
| distributed to the cities, and the cities actually went ahead | |
| and distributed that to the citizens. | |
| I have heard a lot of talk here today about rental | |
| assistance. Rental assistance actually came from the cities to | |
| the citizens, so there was no need for Federal assistance, | |
| because the cities and the counties could actually go ahead. | |
| They were in good fiscal shape, well-run physically. They could | |
| actually go ahead and help their citizens. And I remember | |
| visiting the Allen Area Food Bank, which is a food pantry in | |
| Allen, Texas, and they had gotten a $10 million grant from | |
| Collin County. The county government gives them $10 million to | |
| help feed people, but that was possible because the county was | |
| well-run. It had the resources. It had gas in the tank. | |
| And so as we talk about more CARES dollars going to cities, | |
| what I am kind of concerned about is that my cities and my | |
| county have been well-run, and I am worried that you are | |
| talking about taking money from my voters and giving it to | |
| other places that were not well-run, because those are the ones | |
| where taxes were high, and so they are more likely to have | |
| revenues drop off very quickly, and where they didn't have | |
| money in the bank and they were unable to handle the problem in | |
| front of them. So, how should we think about this to be sure | |
| that we are fair to people who did a good job, who had money in | |
| the bank, who were well-run, Mr. Anthony? How should we think | |
| about this problem? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Yes, thank you, Congressman Taylor, for that | |
| question. I think I will start from a place of assumption that | |
| municipal leaders are responsible, that they, in fact, have to | |
| balance their budget based upon the tax base that they have. | |
| And perhaps in your county, region, it is very diverse, and | |
| perhaps the wealth of that county may be a little different | |
| than some other counties and cities. So my assumption is that, | |
| again, local governments do manage their budgets. | |
| The other thing I will say is that your description of how | |
| the CARES Act dollars came into the State, into the county, and | |
| then, in fact, were shared with the city is a story that we | |
| want to happen all over America, but it has not happened that | |
| way all over America. And the fact that your county was able to | |
| get the CARES Act dollars and then provide them to the | |
| nonprofits is the way we want it to happen. The thing that we | |
| want to stop is having to argue with counties and States to get | |
| the money. We think that your mayors in your county, in your | |
| district, should get direct dollars. So, I commend your county | |
| leaders and say that all of our leaders attempt to be good | |
| stewards of dollars. | |
| Mr. Taylor. Thank you. I appreciate that. Obviously, I feel | |
| very fortunate. | |
| Mr. Anthony. Yes. | |
| Mr. Taylor. And I am very proud of the leaders in my | |
| community, and it is a team effort to build Collin County into | |
| a really, really terrific county, and it has been humbling, to | |
| say the least, to watch the struggles. And they are very real, | |
| very personal struggles that individuals in my county have | |
| confronted, like the single working mom who just lost her job | |
| and is trying to find toilet paper, and getting that phone | |
| call. It is very hard, very humbling calls that we have had as | |
| leaders, but I am proud of what we have been able to do to step | |
| up, and I appreciate your thoughts on this subject. And I yield | |
| back. | |
| Mr. Anthony. And I am proud of you as well. | |
| Mr. Taylor. Thank you. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. The gentlewoman from North | |
| Carolina, Ms. Adams, is recognized for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Adams. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you for | |
| convening this hearing today. And to our witnesses, I want to | |
| thank you as well for sharing your perspectives. Mr. Anthony, | |
| let me take a moment to ask you some questions about housing | |
| insecurity, which has been worsened by this pandemic. According | |
| to the Census household post-survey, we know that of an | |
| estimated of 15.1 million adults living in rental housing, 1 in | |
| 5 adult renters are not caught up on their rent, according to | |
| the data collected in January. But let me just skip over and | |
| talk about a little problem that is going on in my district. | |
| In Charlotte-Mecklenburg, we are seeing the impacts of the | |
| pandemic-fueled housing insecurity. In fact, it has played out | |
| before our very eyes. We have a large and growing homelessness | |
| situation. Our community calls that largest settlement the Tent | |
| City. Tragically, each and every day, more and more tents join | |
| that community. These people are actually living on the street, | |
| because the pandemic does not allow the social distancing in | |
| these centers. They have needs that vary from basic healthcare, | |
| to mental health services, job training, hunger, clothing, et | |
| cetera. So in addition to the recent $25 billion in emergency | |
| rental assistance, what more should Congress do to provide the | |
| funding solutions and support to our cities and counties in | |
| addressing the ever-growing homeless problem, and does the | |
| pandemic give us an opportunity to tap into new and innovative | |
| solutions? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Thank you, Congresswoman Adams. I know your | |
| mayor, Mayor Vi Lyles, and I have worked with the county as | |
| well to address the issues and questions about housing | |
| instability. And we all know that having a roof over your head | |
| is one of the things that creates a feeling of safety, a | |
| quality of health, and wealth. And what we are seeing and | |
| hoping is that there could be dollars in the rental assistance | |
| and housing stability programs to help residents to get a roof | |
| over their head and to get some security. So what we would want | |
| is some dollars, again, going directly to those counties and | |
| cities, who can actually create programs and partnerships with | |
| neighborhood associations. | |
| Ms. Adams. Thank you for that, for your comments. Mr. | |
| Johnson, when Congress created the Paycheck Protection Program | |
| in the CARES Act, we found through various studies, | |
| particularly by the Brookings Institution, that businesses in | |
| majority Black neighborhoods received PPP loans less | |
| frequently, they waited longer for their loans, and they were | |
| more likely to apply through fintechs or online lending | |
| platforms, which frequently carry less favorable interest | |
| terms. So, how can we ensure that minority communities have | |
| adequate and equitable access to programs like PPP, and that | |
| they are not victims of disparate treatment by financial | |
| institutions in carrying out these programs? | |
| Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Congresswoman. First, with the | |
| current consideration, there is a requirement for small | |
| business owners, if they want to go in for a second PPP, they | |
| have to demonstrate that they had a loss of up upwards of 25 | |
| percent in one quarter of last year. For many small businesses, | |
| particularly for African-American businesses, if they had a 25 | |
| percent loss last year, they are no longer in business, so that | |
| should be addressed in this upcoming bill. | |
| Second, you have to ensure that the lending institutions | |
| that are closer to those businesses have access and preference | |
| for those small businesses, whether it is CDFIs, local credit | |
| unions, and others, that are closer to the ground, and | |
| particularly Black banks, because many of those institutions | |
| are the lenders for African-American small businesses. | |
| Ms. Adams. Thank you for that. I just want to add one | |
| thing. As I talk to some of the banks and some of the | |
| individuals who were trying to get these loans, many of the | |
| banks are just now providing information to their customers, | |
| and some of these are small businesses that were unbanked and | |
| so forth. So that continues, I guess, to be a problem. | |
| Hopefully, we can figure that out, but thank you very much. | |
| Madam Chairwoman, I yield back. | |
| Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. The gentleman from | |
| New York, Mr. Zeldin, is recognized for 5 minutes. And I am | |
| going to turn the gavel over to Mr. Perlmutter, as I must leave | |
| to attend to other business at this point. Thank you all very | |
| much. | |
| Mr. Zeldin. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you to the | |
| witnesses for being here today. Thank you to Ranking Member | |
| McHenry as well. I represent the 1st Congressional District of | |
| New York, which is located on the east end of Long Island in | |
| Suffolk County. Long Island was hit very hard by COVID-19 from | |
| the earliest stages of the outbreak here in our country, and | |
| the local governments in my district all stepped up to the | |
| plate in a very big way to provide critical services when my | |
| constituents needed it most. In light of historic shortfalls | |
| caused by this ongoing outbreak, our local governments have | |
| been struggling to recover fiscally. Additional relief from | |
| Congress is likely coming, but it cannot be an across-the-board | |
| free-for-all. Additionally, the State and local government | |
| relief being discussed should not be a bailout of budgeting | |
| failures unrelated to the pandemic. | |
| Democratic leadership has decided to try to push forward a | |
| $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief package through the budget | |
| reconciliation process, ignoring that the Federal Government | |
| just passed another massive coronavirus recovery bill just a | |
| few weeks ago. Our country cannot afford a partisan approach to | |
| COVID-19 relief, like the Democrat-flawed HEROES Act from last | |
| Congress. We must target our relief to where it can pack the | |
| greatest punch. Congress provided support for State and local | |
| governments in the CARES Act, but limited it to support for | |
| local governments with more than 500,000 in population. | |
| I did not agree with that population limit, which is why I | |
| have worked across the aisle with my New York colleague, | |
| Congressman Antonio Delgado, to reintroduce H.R. 199, the | |
| Direct Support for Communities Act. This would drive support to | |
| the most local levels of our counties, towns, cities, and | |
| villages without that population threshold, and driving it to | |
| those who desperately need the assistance. | |
| Dr. Strain, in a recent AEI blog posted on January 26th, | |
| you stated, ``The best thing that Biden is proposing is the | |
| Federal grants to State and local governments, which are | |
| providers of essential services and major employers. The | |
| decrease in tax revenue caused by the pandemic left these | |
| governments with no choice but to lay off workers, especially | |
| since Congress failed to provide funding for States and | |
| localities in the previous relief packages.'' It is clear that | |
| the fiscal solvency of all levels of government is important | |
| for economic recovery. Can you elaborate on the importance of | |
| the health of all levels of government as we talk about the | |
| health and growth of the overall U.S. economy? | |
| Mr. Strain. Yes, Congressman. Thank you for the question. | |
| Right now, State and local unemployment levels are about 1.4 | |
| million below where they were prior to the pandemic, so there | |
| are about 1.4 million fewer jobs in State and local governments | |
| than there were in February of 2020. That includes about | |
| 600,000 fewer education sector workers. And so, if we want the | |
| overall economy to recover, if we want the national labor | |
| market to heal, and if we want there to be enough personnel in | |
| schools for schools to reopen, I think it really is critical | |
| that Congress replace the pandemic-related revenue losses that | |
| have been experienced by States and localities, if for no other | |
| reason than to support the national economic recovery. | |
| Mr. Zeldin. Yes. I am a member who supports additional | |
| funding for State and local governments, but I would not want | |
| it to be a one-size-fits-all approach. I would not want us to | |
| be inefficient with it. I believe that it is important, as | |
| stewards of tax dollars, to ensure that it is not just going to | |
| State governments or the largest cities, but it is going to | |
| some of the local governments that have been on the front lines | |
| of responding to this pandemic. I had towns that had balanced | |
| budgets. They had AAA bond ratings. They were doing a really | |
| good job with their finances, and then they got hit hard by | |
| this pandemic. | |
| In New York State, we have unique issues where the State | |
| had a deficit before we got hit, and it was exacerbated. New | |
| York City has financial issues, correct, but it got exacerbated | |
| by this pandemic. Plus, it is also important that our nation's | |
| largest mass transit system, the MTA, as well as the Port | |
| Authority and some of these others are being heard and that we | |
| are being responsive, but have to be smart in how we do it. | |
| That is extremely important, and that is our responsibility, | |
| working together on both sides of the aisle. I yield back. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. [presiding]. The gentleman yields back. | |
| Another gentleman from New York, Mr. Torres, is recognized for | |
| 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Torres. Thank you. We often speak of a single American | |
| economy, but in truth, there is no single economy in America. | |
| The economic reality for Americans varies widely depending on | |
| your ZIP Code, and often depending on the color of your skin. | |
| Take, as an example, New York City. In the South Bronx and West | |
| Farms, the unemployment rate is 25 percent, which is | |
| Depression-level unemployment. Right across the river in the | |
| Upper East Side, the unemployment rate is 5 percent. New York | |
| City, much like America itself, is a tale of two economies. And | |
| so my first question is, what are your thoughts on how to best | |
| confront the crisis of Depression-level unemployment in | |
| communities of color in places like the South Bronx? And I will | |
| start with Mr. Spriggs. | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you for the question, Congressman. It is | |
| to recognize these disparities. When you hear folks say that, | |
| oh, if you add more money to unemployment benefits, then this | |
| would discourage work. It doesn't discourage those workers who | |
| live in the South Bronx. They are living in absolute fear | |
| because they don't know when they will get their next job. | |
| Their data are clear. They will suffer long-term unemployment. | |
| They may well run out of unemployment benefits. So if you | |
| design unemployment and ignore these realities, if you ignore | |
| the reality that those workers have no savings, they truly live | |
| paycheck to paycheck, and missing one paycheck means they are | |
| in debt, this $600, $400, whatever we add to the unemployment | |
| check, is vital for them. | |
| So it is important that we not model on who is not | |
| unemployed, and understand in this downturn specifically, it is | |
| a clear set of workers who are unemployed, who have severe | |
| challenges. And we can't legislate based on somebody's notion | |
| of what those workers look like. When we added the extra money | |
| to the unemployment check, everybody howled that workers | |
| wouldn't return to work. The evidence was absolutely clear. | |
| Workers returned to work. That was not a discouragement for | |
| people to get back to work, because real people who live in | |
| those communities know you need a job. An unemployment check is | |
| not a job, and in the face of this downturn, it is not a | |
| discouragement for them. | |
| Mr. Torres. I have a question about State and local aid. | |
| State and local governments, largely through no fault of their | |
| own, have seen a catastrophic loss of revenue caused by an | |
| economic crisis the likes of which we have not seen in a | |
| century. New York City has a $4 billion deficit over the next | |
| year. New York State has a cumulative deficit of $60 billion | |
| dollars over the next 4 years. State and local aid matters not | |
| only to State and local governments; it matters to the larger | |
| ecosystem of community-based organizations that depend on the | |
| stability of local and State government. These are community- | |
| based organizations that often heavily employ people of color, | |
| and heavily serve communities of color. | |
| One example that comes to mind in my district is Acacia | |
| Network, which employs thousands of people. More than 85 | |
| percent of its essential workforce are people of color who | |
| depend heavily on local and State aid. So when it comes to | |
| local and State aid, can you share with the committee your | |
| thoughts on what is at stake for communities of color and the | |
| ecosystem that heavily serves and employs them? And this | |
| question is for Mr. Anthony, Mr. Johnson, and Ms. Murguia. | |
| Ms. Murguia. I would be happy to take the first stab at | |
| that. Thank you, Congressman. It is a great question. We have | |
| been talking about how there is an ecosystem at the State and | |
| local level, particularly at the local level, and, yes, it is | |
| State and local governments. But it is these community-based | |
| nonprofits that are the lifeline, the safety nets, for so many | |
| in our communities. These affiliate clients are low income, | |
| mostly now ravaged by the hospitality industry layoffs. They | |
| are the essential workers that we are trying to make sure we | |
| can get assistance to. | |
| But when you see funding cuts for these nonprofits, you see | |
| their safety nets shut down. These affiliates are there to | |
| provide much-needed resources, oftentimes setting up food | |
| pantries and direct assistance, and information. And these are | |
| trusted partners in those communities, so getting that | |
| information, whether it is about vaccines, or economic | |
| assistance, or, again, food, they are a lifeline. They are a | |
| safety net, and we need to make sure that we are supporting | |
| State and local governments, but also, and in addition to, | |
| these community-based organizations. I'm proud of Acacia, which | |
| is a UnidosUS affiliate as well. Thank you. | |
| Mr. Anthony. Congressman, I will add on behalf of cities | |
| all over America, that we know that if there is stress on local | |
| government in the ability to provide support for the nonprofit | |
| community, we know that the communities of color will suffer | |
| first. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. And, Mr. Anthony, I don't mean to cut you | |
| off, but the gentleman's time has expired, and it has been a | |
| very long hearing for all of the witnesses, that is for sure. | |
| So, Mr. Torres, thank you for your questions. I am going to | |
| recognize Ms. Williams from Georgia for 5 minutes. | |
| Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for | |
| convening this hearing on the critical need for additional | |
| funding to assist our families and communities that have been | |
| impacted by COVID-19. Our constituents are suffering, and are | |
| in desperate need of assistance from the Federal Government. My | |
| colleagues across the aisle keep expressing their outrage at | |
| the fact that we are spending necessary dollars to help | |
| families impacted by a deadly pandemic, but were silent on the | |
| $1.9 trillion tax scam that benefited the wealthiest in the | |
| country. | |
| My question is for you, Dr. Spriggs. In your testimony, you | |
| stated that there is a misguided belief that simply reopening | |
| businesses will solve the current unemployment crisis. What | |
| will it take to actually help the economy recover and ensure | |
| that long-term unemployment is resolved? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you, Congresswoman. The data is clear | |
| because we have a huge variation in levels of shutdown, what | |
| has been shut down, and it is clear from the economic evidence | |
| that it is not these orders. It is the disease. People are | |
| responding to the risk, and they aren't going out because of | |
| the risk, and it is hurting the businesses because of that. So | |
| the real issue is, can we solve the disease? Can we get it | |
| under control? Can we throw everything at it that we possibly | |
| can? Simply reopening is not going to get people on airplanes. | |
| It is not going to get them into a theater. It is not going get | |
| them to a live music venue. It is not going to get them flying | |
| to Disney. | |
| Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you, Dr. Spriggs. Like my | |
| colleagues, I also want to have people get back to work, and I | |
| want our economy to recover and work for the people. So, Dr. | |
| Spriggs, could you tell us, in your opinion, what happens if we | |
| reopen too soon or have a patchwork of States reopening and do | |
| not have a coordinated reopening? | |
| Mr. Spriggs. My fear is that too often, that will be | |
| accompanied by lowering our barriers on the safety issues, and | |
| we would reignite the disease. We were warned of that going | |
| into this fall. People ignored it, and now we have the disease | |
| on a path we are so uncertain of. We are hopeful that it has | |
| peaked, but it has peaked now with variants that are even more | |
| dangerous, so we can't take our eye off the ball. We must | |
| concentrate on safety first. | |
| Ms. Williams of Georgia. As we have heard, communities are | |
| still being ravaged by the pandemic. Millions of workers are | |
| struggling to find work, and countless families are facing a | |
| looming eviction crisis. There is currently an eviction | |
| moratorium in place by the CDC halting evictions through March | |
| 31st. However, we know that several States, including my home | |
| State of Georgia, have been continuing with the eviction | |
| proceedings for months. Mr. Anthony, as we work to pass the | |
| necessary proposals in President Biden's rescue plan to assist | |
| families, how can we ensure that CDC eviction moratoriums are | |
| being enforced? | |
| Mr. Anthony. Congresswoman Williams, thank you for that | |
| question. I think what we need to do is to have our local | |
| leaders, our mayors and our council members work with the local | |
| legal center to make sure that the rights of those people are | |
| not taken for granted. And I think that local leaders are | |
| committed to that by the programs that they have created, and | |
| the mayors, again, in your region are models for that. Atlanta | |
| and other mayors are doing an amazing job in trying to make | |
| sure that evictions do not occur without some place for people | |
| to live. | |
| Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Anthony. As we work | |
| towards slowing the spread of COVID-19 and ensuring that the | |
| majority of the country is vaccinated, we must continue to | |
| provide emergency funding to help families and communities | |
| recover. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back the balance | |
| of my time. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back her | |
| time. The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Garcia, is recognized | |
| for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and all of | |
| the witnesses, and I want to thank Chairwoman Waters and the | |
| ranking member for holding this hearing. This Congress has to | |
| deliver more relief, and we have to do it fast. And I applaud | |
| our witnesses for joining us today to talk about how our | |
| communities across the country are experiencing this pandemic. | |
| I would like to ask Ms. Murguia a question regarding | |
| housing. I thank you for joining us today. As you know, I | |
| represent a working-class Latino district, and communities like | |
| mine have been hit especially hard. Essential workers in my | |
| neighborhood worry about getting their family sick when they | |
| come home from work. Especially in times like this when money | |
| is tight, intergenerational living puts entire families at | |
| risk. And a report came out last month saying that one-quarter | |
| of Latinos in Illinois think they will miss their rent payment. | |
| Families are worried about losing their homes. Can you talk a | |
| little bit about why it is so important to keep families in | |
| their homes, and tools like rental assistance and counseling | |
| that can help do that? | |
| Ms. Murguia. Yes. Thank you, Congressman. Thanks for your | |
| leadership on so many issues, but particularly this one. I know | |
| we have worked on the impact of systemic inequalities and how | |
| that has impacted communities of color in terms of our Latino | |
| community, and we are seeing that in healthcare, but of course | |
| now economically through the pandemic, and in housing in | |
| particular, and it has been devastating. Our Latino workers are | |
| the essential workers, and they are being crushed right now by | |
| this pandemic. | |
| And I would just say it is absolutely essential for us to | |
| up the housing counseling assistance funding right now. The | |
| Housing Counseling Program gives that early intervention that | |
| really does empower renters and homeowners to stay in their | |
| homes, and this support is also accessible to mixed-status | |
| families who have been cruelly left out of Federal assistance. | |
| So we do know that there is a high success rate as well. In | |
| terms of when families and individuals are able to get that | |
| counseling, it is 3 times more likely to allow them to stay in | |
| their homes. So we do understand that that helps us prevent | |
| homelessness and eviction by helping these renters locate | |
| secure and retain affordable rental housing or stay in their | |
| homes. | |
| So, housing counseling improves outcomes, and that helps | |
| create stability for these families, and in our economy, so it | |
| is very important. And what we have found, and as you know, in | |
| Illinois, Unidos affiliates, like the Resurrection Project, | |
| have the trust of communities. They have the cultural | |
| competency and are able to provide the linguistic support to be | |
| able to effectively connect with these families. That is going | |
| to be true for housing. It is also going to be true for | |
| vaccines, which we know have to be more equitable in terms of | |
| their distribution, and to gain the confidence for our | |
| community to do that. | |
| So, across-the-board, we know that this nonprofit network, | |
| the community-based networks, become key. UnidosUS has the | |
| largest Latino housing counseling network in the country, and | |
| it has proven to be very effective, but we need to grow that | |
| footprint and its impact with more funding. Thank you, | |
| Congressman, for your leadership. | |
| Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you, Ms. Murguia, and as a | |
| former housing counselor, I couldn't agree with you more. On | |
| the special drawing rights, I would like to ask Dr. Spriggs, | |
| whether it is the virus or the economy? We talk a lot about how | |
| we are all in this together, but if we don't keep people safe, | |
| we will keep spreading the virus, and if we don't get money | |
| into people's pockets, we won't see economic growth. | |
| But that is true on a global scale, too. Like many others | |
| in my neighborhood, I moved to this country from Mexico. It | |
| matters to me and my community that Mexico is able to fight the | |
| virus effectively, and, of course, it matters to us here in the | |
| U.S., and that the global economy recovers. The AFL-CIO is a | |
| major proponent of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) | |
| issuing special drawing rights. Could you talk a little bit | |
| about what those are and why a large issuance is so important? | |
| You have about 33 seconds. | |
| Mr. Spriggs. Thank you so much for the question and for | |
| your leadership on banking issues. Yes, it is vital that | |
| governments not face fiscal constraints when it comes to them | |
| responding on the global scale, and that is why we want these | |
| special drawing rights. It is not a time right now for finger | |
| pointing and arguing about which countries we think were | |
| profligate or anything like that. It is time to let them be | |
| unfettered in responding, and we don't want them to go into | |
| early austerity. You don't want them to start cutting their | |
| budgets and cutting their services because that will hurt the | |
| rate of recovery for the global economy. And they are all going | |
| to turn to wanting to export to the United States as their | |
| number-one answer if we force them into austerity. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Spriggs. The | |
| gentleman's time has expired, and now we will recognize Mr. | |
| Auchincloss from Massachusetts for 5 minutes. | |
| Mr. Auchincloss. Thank you, and thank you all for being | |
| here. Our nation's response to this pandemic has revealed | |
| significant gaps in our domestic ability to rapidly deploy key | |
| medical equipment and supplies in the face of ever-changing | |
| requirements. The Biden Administration has taken action since | |
| day one to accelerate vaccine deployment, in part by invoking | |
| the Defense Production Act (DPA), but the reality is that it | |
| will be a while before we have the supply to meet the need. In | |
| Massachusetts, we have the personnel and equipment needed to | |
| distribute vaccines. We just don't have the vaccines themselves | |
| in sufficient supply. | |
| My question is for Mr. Anthony. We know that the Defense | |
| Production Act could be invoked to provide PPE, like N95 masks, | |
| gloves, and gowns. These are in short supply, and we must ramp | |
| up their production for States and local governments. As we | |
| begin to implement our mass vaccination campaign, it appears | |
| that the supply of the vaccine components will be the limiting | |
| factor. How can the DPA be used to address this bottleneck for | |
| States and local governments? How can we use the DPA to | |
| actually expand the supply of vaccinations themselves? | |
| Mr. Anthony. I think that one of the things that most | |
| citizens have an assumption on, Congressman, is that most | |
| cities have access to the distribution and supply of vaccines, | |
| and, in fact, probably 90 percent of cities do not. It is a | |
| State- and county-level process. What we are hoping is that you | |
| will partner with those cities, those neighborhoods, those | |
| churches, and those places in the community so that we can get | |
| the vaccine in the arms of people very quickly, especially | |
| people of color. | |
| In my State of Florida, where I grew up, they are, in fact, | |
| using one of the high-class, I would say, grocery store chains | |
| to get access, and it is not working because those citizens | |
| don't have access. So, local government is the answer. | |
| Mr. Auchincloss. Thank you, Mr. Anthony. I will yield back | |
| my time. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. The gentleman yields back. Thank you, Mr. | |
| Auchincloss, and I don't think we have any more Members. To our | |
| panelists who have shown incredible stamina, thank you all very | |
| much. I would like to thank you all for your testimony today. | |
| The Chair notes that some Members may have additional | |
| questions for this panel, which they may wish to submit in | |
| writing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open | |
| for 5 legislative days for Members to submit written questions | |
| to these witnesses and to place their responses in the record. | |
| Also, without objection, Members will have 5 legislative days | |
| to submit extraneous materials to the Chair for inclusion in | |
| the record. | |
| Again, thank you all very much for your diligence, your | |
| stamina, and your testimony today. And with that, this hearing | |
| is adjourned. | |
| Mr. Anthony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. Everybody have a good day. | |
| Mr. Johnson. Thank you. Have a nice day. | |
| Mr. Perlmutter. You, as well. | |
| Ms. Murguia. Thank you. | |
| [Whereupon, at 2:19 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] | |
| APPENDIX | |
| February 4, 2021 | |
| [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] | |
| [all] | |
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