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+
+ - REBUILDING AMERICA: SMALL BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE
+
+[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
+[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
+
+
+ REBUILDING AMERICA: SMALL BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE
+
+=======================================================================
+
+ HEARING
+
+ BEFORE THE
+
+ COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
+ UNITED STATES
+ HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
+
+ ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
+
+ FIRST SESSION
+
+ __________
+
+ HEARING HELD
+ MARCH 6, 2019
+
+ __________
+
+[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
+
+
+ Small Business Committee Document Number 116-007
+ Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
+
+
+ __________
+
+
+ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
+35-169 WASHINGTON : 2019
+
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office,
+http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center,
+U.S. Government Publishing Office. Phone 202-512-1800, or 866-512-1800 (toll-free).E-mail,
+[email protected].
+
+
+
+
+ HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
+
+ NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
+ ABBY FINKENAUER, Iowa
+ JARED GOLDEN, Maine
+ ANDY KIM, New Jersey
+ JASON CROW, Colorado
+ SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
+ JUDY CHU, California
+ MARC VEASEY, Texas
+ DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
+ BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
+ ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
+ ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
+ CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
+ ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
+ STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Ranking Member
+ AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American Samoa, Vice Ranking Member
+ TRENT KELLY, Mississippi
+ TROY BALDERSON, Ohio
+ KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma
+ JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
+ PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
+ TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
+ ROSS SPANO, Florida
+ JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania
+
+ Adam Minehardt, Majority Staff Director
+ Melissa Jung, Majority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel
+ Kevin Fitzpatrick, Staff Director
+
+
+
+ C O N T E N T S
+
+ OPENING STATEMENTS
+
+ Page
+Hon. Nydia Velazquez............................................. 1
+Hon. Steve Chabot................................................ 2
+
+ WITNESSES
+
+Ms. Terri Williams, Director, SBDC Procurement Technical
+ Assistance Center, University of Texas at San Antonio, San
+ Antonio, TX.................................................... 4
+Mr. Tim Donovan, Senior Vice President, Legislative Affairs,
+ Competitive Carriers Association, Washington, DC............... 6
+Ms. Roseline Bougher, President, A.D. Marble, King of Prussia,
+ PA, testifying on behalf of the American Council of Engineering
+ Companies...................................................... 7
+The Honorable Kris Knochelmann, Judge Executive, President, Ohio-
+ Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments, Kenton
+ County, KY..................................................... 9
+
+ APPENDIX
+
+Prepared Statements:
+ Ms. Terri Williams, Director, SBDC Procurement Technical
+ Assistance Center, University of Texas at San Antonio, San
+ Antonio, TX................................................ 32
+ Mr. Tim Donovan, Senior Vice President, Legislative Affairs,
+ Competitive Carriers Association, Washington, DC........... 37
+ Ms. Roseline Bougher, President, A.D. Marble, King of
+ Prussia, PA, testifying on behalf of the American Council
+ of Engineering Companies................................... 44
+ The Honorable Kris Knochelmann, Judge Executive, President,
+ Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments,
+ Kenton County, KY.......................................... 49
+ Hon. Jim Hagedorn, Member of Congress, Minnesota............. 52
+Questions for the Record:
+ None.
+Answers for the Record:
+ None.
+Additional Material for the Record:
+ None.
+
+
+ REBUILDING AMERICA: SMALL BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE
+
+ ----------
+
+
+ WEDNESDAY, MARCH 6, 2019
+
+ House of Representatives,
+ Committee on Small Business,
+ Washington, DC.
+ The committee met, pursuant to call, at 11:01 a.m., in Room
+2360, Rayburn House Office Building. Hon. Nydia Velazquez
+[chairwoman of the Committee] presiding.
+ Present: Representatives Velazquez, Finkenauer, Kim,
+Davids, Golden, Veasey, Evans, Espaillat, Delgado, Houlahan,
+Craig, Chabot, Balderson, Hern, Hagedorn, Stauber, Stauber,
+Burchett, and Joyce.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Good morning. The committee will come
+to order.
+ I want to thank everyone for joining us this morning, and I
+want to especially thank the witnesses for being here today.
+ I would like to welcome Ms. Angie Craig from Minnesota to
+our committee. Her experience as a small business investor and
+the former head of Global HR for a major Minnesota manufacturer
+brings a unique perspective to the issues important to Main
+Street businesses all over the nation. Welcome.
+ Whether it is the ports we rely upon to transport our goods
+to the utility systems that power our factories, maintaining
+America's infrastructure is fundamental to a robust economy and
+to the nation's competitiveness.
+ The topic of infrastructure is vast, encompassing networks
+of highways, bridges, and waterways that span thousands of
+miles across America.
+ As a nation, we have a proud legacy of pushing the
+boundaries of innovation. Historically, America's robust
+infrastructure network has fostered strong economies and
+allowed us to be both competitive and efficient. Today, we have
+built telecommunications and broadband systems that connect us
+in a matter of seconds.
+ However, by many measures we are failing to keep up with
+the growing demands of our modern society. Whether it is the
+high-speed internet connection that has not yet reached our
+rural communities to the outdated and crumbling tunnels that
+connect our cities, decades of neglect and lackluster
+investments have allowed our infrastructure to fall apart and
+fall behind other advanced economies.
+ Let us be clear, this has all come at a cost to commerce
+and small businesses. That is why we must now address this
+issue head on. Today, we are here to think big about the
+countless ways in which our infrastructure impacts the small
+business sector.
+ We know that investments in infrastructure promote future
+economic opportunities for American workers and small
+businesses. In fact, 61 percent of the jobs directly created by
+infrastructure spending would be in the construction sector, 12
+percent in the manufacturing sector, and 7 percent in retail
+trade. That is 80 percent in these three sectors alone.
+ Most importantly, 90 percent of these jobs are good paying
+middle-class jobs, many of which are supported by our nation's
+small businesses. From construction to engineering to
+architecture, small businesses are critical to maintaining and
+expanding our infrastructure systems.
+ And yet, we must level the playing field to ensure that any
+federal infrastructure plan includes opportunities for small
+business owners, and particularly for women- and minority-owned
+businesses.
+ All of us have an obligation to ensure there is adequate
+federal infrastructure investment and guarantee our nation's
+long-term competitiveness in the global economy. Accordingly, a
+robust and well-planned investment in our infrastructure should
+benefit small businesses, both as end users of these networks
+and by creating business opportunities for them.
+ It is my hope that today's discussion can help identify
+strategies for accomplishing that goal. With that, I thank each
+of the witnesses for joining us today and I look forward to
+your testimony.
+ I would like to yield now to the Ranking Member, Mr.
+Chabot, for his opening statement.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
+ During my tenure as both the Ranking Member now and in the
+past as Chair of this Committee, I know that we have heard from
+small businesses from all across the country in this very room
+about the importance of repairing our nation's infrastructure
+and how important it is to those small businesses and to many
+others across our country. And I am glad that we are continuing
+that conversation here today. So I commend you for doing that.
+ This is an issue that stretches across every state and
+across every congressional district. I am willing to bet that
+ever member on this side of the aisle and on the other side of
+the aisle can think of at least one urgent infrastructure
+project in his or her district that they would love to have
+fixed today. I know that I can, and one of the witnesses here
+is going to be addressing that shortly.
+ There are many important projects in Ohio, but one I can
+think about in particular is the Brent Spence Bridge. This
+bridge connects Ohio to Kentucky and carries an estimated
+172,000 vehicles on Interstates 71 and 75 every day, more than
+double its intended capacity. Today it is labeled functionally
+obsolete by the U.S. Department of Transportation.
+ My district's challenge, however, is not unique. Currently,
+an estimated 20 percent of Federal roads provide poor ride
+quality, and 25 percent of our Nation's bridges are
+functionally obsolete as is the Brent Spence Bridge. On
+average, the typical American commuter loses 42 hours of
+valuable, productive time each year to traffic alone, so that
+is essentially an entire work week just sitting in traffic.
+Some districts obviously it is harder than others. If you are
+in Washington, D.C., or you are in New York, or probably a lot
+of districts in California, it is particularly bad, but it
+happens all over the country. I am sure the Chairwoman has
+experienced this a time or two in her home district in Brooklyn
+or Lower Manhattan. So we can all obviously relate to this.
+ At this Committee, we have learned in past hearings another
+issue, broadband deployment, is also a crucial part of our
+nation's infrastructure, particularly for entrepreneurs in
+rural areas. I know that our colleague from Mississippi, Trent
+Kelly has brought that up to me a number of times. As business
+owners continue to move to a more global marketplace, access to
+broadband is crucial to keeping small businesses competitive.
+Unfortunately, too many small businesses still lack access to
+broadband internet service considered fast by the FCC.
+ As with any major project, it is critical that small
+businesses are not left out of the conversation. With small
+businesses creating about 70 percent of the new jobs in the
+economy every year now, they will be a driving force in
+revitalizing our Nation's infrastructure system. We also must
+be sure to engage state and local governments. States and
+localities know the needs of their communities best, which is
+why any Federal legislation created by this Congress must
+empower local governments to be leaders in their communities.
+ I look forward to hearing from our witness panel here
+today, if I ever stop talking, and their ideas for moving our
+Nation's infrastructure into the 21st century.
+ So thank you, Madam Chair, for holding this hearing, and I
+yield back my time.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chabot. The gentleman
+yields back.
+ And if any committee members have an opening statement
+prepared, we would ask that they be submitted for the record.
+ I would like to take a minute to explain the timing rules.
+Each witness gets 5 minutes to testify and the members get 5
+minutes for questioning. There is a lighting system to assist
+you. The green light will be on when you begin, and the yellow
+light comes on when you have 1 minute remaining. The red light
+comes on when you are out of time, and we ask that you stay
+within the timeframe to the best of your ability.
+ I now would like to introduce our witnesses.
+ Our first witness is Ms. Terri Williams. Ms. Williams
+serves as the Director of the University of Texas at San
+Antonio Institute for Economic Development Procurement
+Technical Assistance Center. As director, she provides
+direction, management, and oversight as part of the UTSA
+Institute for Economic Development. The program provides
+counseling, training, energy audits, and human resource
+sustainable business and other support services to small
+businesses. I welcome you.
+ Our second witness is Mr. Tim Donovan. Tim Donovan is the
+Senior Vice President of Legislative Affairs for the
+Competitive Carriers Association, the nation's leading
+association for competitive wireless providers and stakeholders
+across the country. In this capacity he leads the association's
+legislative advocacy before policymakers on issues impacting
+the competitive wireless community, including roaming,
+universal service, spectrum policy, device availability,
+broadband policy, and others.
+ Our third witness today is Ms. Roseline Bougher. Ms.
+Bougher is the president of A.D. Marble, a woman-founded,
+environmental and engineering firm based in Pennsylvania. Ms.
+Bougher is responsible for the functions and operations of the
+company, including marketing, budgeting, building and
+maintaining client relationships, and the development of
+employees. Raised in San Juan, Puerto Rico, Roseline went on to
+attend Cornell University and NOVA Southeastern University in
+Fort Lauderdale. Welcome.
+ And now I yield to our Ranking Member, Mr. Chabot, to
+introduce our final witness.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ Our final witness today is The Honorable Kris Knochelmann,
+Judge Executive for Kenton County, Kentucky, which is just
+across the Ohio River, which is actually, by the way, mostly
+owned by Kentucky. And he is in the Northern Kentucky area.
+Judge Knochelmann also serves as the President of OKI, the Ohio
+Kentucky Indiana Regional Council of Governments, the
+organization that oversees all federal dollars spent on
+infrastructure in our region. He and his wife are also the
+owners of Schneller Plumbing, Heating, and Air, a small
+business founded all the way back in 1928. And we thank you for
+testifying today.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Ms. Williams, you are recognized for
+5 minutes.
+
+ STATEMENTS OF TERRI WILLIAMS, DIRECTOR, SBDC PROCUREMENT
+ TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE CENTER; TIM DONOVAN, SENIOR VICE
+ PRESIDENT, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS, COMPETITIVE CARRIERS
+ ASSOCIATION; ROSELINE BOUGHER, PRESIDENT, A.D. MARBLE; KRIS
+ KNOCHELMANN, JUDGE EXECUTIVE PRESIDENT, OHIO-KENTUCKY-INDIANA
+ REGIONAL COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS
+
+ STATEMENT OF TERRI WILLIAMS
+
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. Thank you so much.
+ Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking Member Chabot, members of the
+Committee, good morning.
+ I have already been introduced, so I am going to in essence
+try to stick to my time.
+ Over the past 30 years, I have been involved in listening
+to the needs of small business owners and providing solutions.
+Today, key issues have been identified as infrastructure,
+broadband, cybersecurity, government contracting opportunities,
+and access to capital. My testimony is focused on these issues
+and some anecdotes of small business owners who continue to
+struggle toward success.
+ Small businesses continue to be the driving force of our
+Nation's economy. According to the most recent SBA Small
+Business Profile of 2018, 30.2 million businesses meet the
+definition of small, which accounts for 99.9 percent of all
+U.S. businesses. They also employ 58.9 million people, which
+accounts for 47.5 percent of total employees and are
+responsible for creating 1.9 million net new jobs. Small
+businesses also hire 43 percent of all workers in the high-tech
+sector, and produce 13 times as many patents per employee as
+large firms in high-tech industries. However, this cannot
+continue to be sustained or increased without investment in
+infrastructure to help small businesses be competitive with
+their counterparts.
+ Broadband has become an essential tool for doing business.
+It is important for connecting with customers, working with
+suppliers, enabling remote access to employees, and improving
+operations. It is a critical component in competing locally and
+globally. According to a report of the State Broadband
+Initiative of New Jersey, in order for small businesses to
+adopt broadband, three areas have to be considered--
+availability, affordability, and adoption.
+ Availability must consider two important factors: Is the
+infrastructure to deliver broadband available and accessible at
+their location? Does the available broadband meet the security
+needs of the small business?
+ And then affordability must consider is there a need for
+upgrading the infrastructure or expanding it to the location?
+Is it affordable? Can the small business afford the technology,
+devices, equipment, applications needed to adopt the use of
+broadband into their operation and business? And can they
+afford to train or hire new staff for implementation?
+ Finally, adoption considers knowledge and how to adopt it
+into their business, effectively integrating it into their
+operations, and realizing the benefits. For many businesses in
+rural areas of the country, broadband is not an option which
+leaves them unable to comply with electronic submissions to
+register their business, submit a bid or proposal, receive
+payments, or meet data security requirements.
+ In an effort to address national security issues, the DoD
+has identified a need to increase the number of businesses who
+are resilient and compliant with cybersecurity requirements and
+decrease the vulnerability of the supply chain. Requirements
+are now included in many DoD acquisition documents for
+businesses to have a system security plan consistent with the
+National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Unless
+small business owners are equipped with human and financial
+resources to comply with these standards, they will be left
+behind in the Federal contracting market.
+ In an effort to respond to this need, USTA has developed a
+Small Business Cybersecurity Training Academy for the purpose
+of helping small businesses develop a system security plan.
+However, this training does not provide relief to cover any
+necessary costs for equipment upgrades. As a result, small
+businesses are limited in government contracting as a primary
+contractor or vendor, as well as a subcontractor.
+ Over the past 30 years, Federal, state, and local
+government agencies have strategized at the request of small
+business owners to provide information and assistance in
+responding to requests for government contracting bids and
+proposals.
+ The remainder of my testimony speaks to access to capital
+as well, and we know that the support of small business
+financing mechanisms that relax total dependence on high credit
+scores and lowers interest rates will help businesses be more
+competitive and infuse money back into their business.
+ So thank you for the opportunity to share this information,
+and I will be glad to answer any questions you may have.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Ms. Williams.
+ Mr. Donovan, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
+
+ STATEMENT OF TIM DONOVAN
+
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking Member Chabot,
+and members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to
+testify about the importance of broadband connectivity as
+Congress continues its work to revitalize our Nation's
+infrastructure.
+ CCA is the Nation's leading association for competitive
+wireless providers, representing nearly 100 carrier members, as
+well as vendors and suppliers. The vast majority of CCA members
+are small businesses or work closely with them. They invest in
+their hometowns, not only through providing wireless service,
+but also by employing their neighbors, sponsoring local events
+and hometown teams, and hosting community service events.
+ Robust broadband networks are vital infrastructure for the
+21st century, particularly for small businesses and the
+consumers they serve. These businesses rely on connectivity to
+provide a digital storefront to reach customers in their
+communities and around the world. In addition to connecting
+with consumers, wireless services revolutionize how entire
+industries operate. From telehealth to precision agriculture,
+distance learning and the internet of things, these and other
+services are economic multipliers and job creators that depend
+on reliable broadband coverage.
+ While critical for today's mobile economy, the potential
+benefits and capabilities of next-generation and 5G networks
+will supercharge existing services and enable new technologies.
+The possibility of a fully connected world is both
+groundbreaking and exciting.
+ But this generational leap of technology and the very
+existence of 5G is not inevitable, particularly in rural
+America. While 5G buzz grabs headlines, too many rural areas
+and small businesses remain on the wrong side of a persistent
+digital divide. Decisions made by policymakers today can either
+launch innovation and economic growth or exacerbate
+insufficient access, leaving rural America behind. Small
+businesses depend on policies that preserve and expand wireless
+services.
+ To determine whether services are available, Congress must
+have reliable coverage maps. Unfortunately, based on your own
+experiences, member of this Committee know that coverage is
+frequently overstated, leaving consumers frustrated and small
+businesses lacking connectivity. This is a cornerstone issue
+which must be addressed.
+ In addition to developing reliable data, Congress should
+act on three key policy issues: funding, spectrum, and
+deployment challenges. First, additional funding will preserve
+and expand wireless broadband coverage. CCA commends the FCC
+for making support available through the Mobility Fund Phase II
+program. However, additional resources are necessary to ensure
+that rural areas have access to reasonably comparable services
+as those provided in urban areas.
+ As Congress considers legislation to rebuild America's
+infrastructure, CCA strongly supports employing all policy
+options to advance deployment, including providing direct
+funding to build broadband infrastructure where private capital
+alone is not sufficient to support a business case for service.
+ Next, Spectrum is the invisible infrastructure for wireless
+service and the lifeblood of our industry. All carriers must
+have access to spectrum at low-, mid-, and high-frequency bands
+to provide the services their customers depend on and the
+capacity necessary to support innovative applications. As small
+businesses increasingly rely on wireless broadband connections,
+the demand for additional spectrum resources grows
+exponentially.
+ Finally, carriers must have certainty regarding the costs
+and time necessary to deploy towers, small cells, and the fiber
+required to backhaul tremendous amounts of data. Wireless
+services depend on this physical infrastructure. Smart policies
+to deploy, maintain, and upgrade these networks, are key
+components to both closing the digital divide and completing
+the generational upgrade to 5G.
+ While Congress and the FCC have taken important steps to
+streamline siting approval and permitting processes, additional
+work remains. It is important to underscore that these reforms
+need not pit wireless carriers against the municipalities and
+the states that they serve. Smart policies can create a win-win
+scenario that saves resources by eliminating unnecessary
+reviews for both carriers willing to invest in network
+deployments, as well as state and local government agencies
+seeking to upgrade services for their constituencies.
+ Modern wireless services will revolutionize how small
+businesses connect with their customers, while creating new
+jobs and allowing anyone to work from wherever there is a
+broadband connection. The services enabled by wireless
+broadband would not long ago be considered science fiction, but
+today's networks are making them a reality, improving
+opportunities for small businesses, and reducing their costs.
+5G services promises an immediate and expansive impact on the
+lives of all Americans, but absent smart and swift action from
+policymakers to close the digital divide, those in rural areas
+will be sidelined from a connected future.
+ I appreciate this Committee's attention to ensuring that
+all small businesses have the national infrastructure in place
+to survive and thrive, and reliable broadband is an
+increasingly important component to achieving this goal.
+ Thank you for holding today's important hearing, and I
+welcome any questions you may have.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you very much. I really
+appreciate that you are kindly sticking to the 5 minutes. Thank
+you, Mr. Donovan.
+ And now Ms. Bougher, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
+
+ STATEMENT OF ROSELINE BOUGHER
+
+ Ms. BOUGHER. Thank you, Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking
+Member Chabot, and members of the Committee.
+ I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today.
+As Chairwoman Velazquez indicated, I am the president and CEO
+of A.D. Marble, an environmental and engineering firm with 50
+employees across four offices in Pennsylvania and Maryland. Our
+headquarters are located in King of Prussia just outside
+Congresswoman Houlahan's district.
+ Our firm conducts natural resources, cultural resources,
+and engineering, environmental engineering services on a range
+of transportation, water, and site development projects. Our
+environmental services focus on the completion of NEPA
+clearances and the environmental permitting process.
+ I am here on behalf of the American Council of Engineering
+Companies (ACEC), the business association of the Nation's
+engineering industry. ACEC is a national federation of state
+and regional organizations representing more than 5,600
+engineering firms and 600,000 engineers, surveyors, architects,
+and other specialists nationwide. Nearly three-fourths of ACEC
+members' firms are small businesses.
+ This is a timely hearing because we believe Congress has a
+unique opportunity this year to pass major infrastructure
+legislation to modernize the Nation's transportation, water,
+energy, and communications networks. Federal infrastructure
+programs are essential to small businesses. Most importantly,
+they provide resources in partnership with state and local
+governments who are directly responsible for maintaining and
+improving infrastructure systems.
+ These public agencies are a primary market for small
+engineering firms. For example, approximately 85 percent of my
+company's work comes from transportation clients in the state
+of Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Delaware. State and local
+agencies rely on consistent, multi-year Federal funding in
+order to plan and implement their projects. Without this
+funding, they can only undertake the most basic maintenance and
+short-term fixes and cannot effectively implement a long-range
+improvement plan that would unlock business opportunities for
+small firms.
+ Although it is not in the jurisdiction of this Committee, I
+would be remiss if I did not specifically mention the need to
+restore long-term solvency to the Highway Trust Fund. The user
+fees were last raised in 1993, and have lost over 40 percent of
+its purchasing power. More than $140 billion has been
+transferred from the General Fund into the Highway Trust Fund
+since 2008 because of the failure to address systemic funding
+shortfalls with real revenue solutions. It is time for Congress
+to provide new sustainable revenue for service transportation
+programs.
+ Another advantage of infrastructure investment is that
+Federal funds are directly invested in physical assets that
+create a lasting benefit for the public and spur additional
+economic growth. In addition to the construction activities
+that provide local businesses with direct contracting
+opportunities, the flow down effect helps bolster other
+economic activity as well, such as service industry, retail,
+and manufacturing among others.
+ Conversely, as a small business leader and owner, I have
+seen how challenging the lack of infrastructure funding can be
+to our industry. It is more difficult for my firm to retain
+employees if there is no work available. We cannot afford to
+keep employees that cannot bill to projects even when the lull
+may be short term. When there is no work, we must make quick
+and difficult decisions when it comes to personnel. This is a
+problem that affects engineering firms of all sizes but is
+particularly problematic for the smaller specialty firms like
+mine that lack the resources and markets that enable larger
+firms to keep their employees busy.
+ Lastly, on the issue of workforce development, I think it
+is important to note that we do not have enough engineers in
+this country. According to the most recent quarterly ACEC
+survey of company executives, more than one-third pointed to
+the lack of engineering talent as the greatest threat to their
+firm's success. As experienced senior staff are retiring at a
+rapid pace, we are not backfilling that gap with enough
+graduates in engineering. Firms of all sizes are fighting to
+attract and retain experienced engineers.
+ This national workforce challenge does not have a silver
+bullet solution. It involves a multi-faceted strategy,
+including improvements in K-12 STEM education, incentives for
+engineering students at the collegiate level, as well as worker
+retraining initiatives and increasing the number of employment-
+based visas for high-skilled workers.
+ On behalf of ACEC and the Nation's engineering industry, I
+want to thank this Committee once again for focusing attention
+on this important issue.
+ I would be happy to answer any questions.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Ms. Bougher.
+ And Mr. Knochelmann, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
+Welcome.
+
+ STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE KRIS KNOCHELMANN
+
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and Committee
+members.
+ Good morning. As noted before, my name is Kris Knochelmann.
+I am a Kenton County, Kentucky judge executive and president of
+the OKI, the Ohio Kentucky Indiana Regional Council of
+Governments, an 180-member board. It is an honor to appear
+before you to discuss the vital importance of reliable
+transportation infrastructure on all businesses, particularly
+small business.
+ I am a small business owner. As you heard, our family
+business was started in 1928. My wife and I, by the way, with
+help of an SBA loan, acquired it in 2011, and by the grace of
+God, creative work of our team, our business growth has now
+gone to over 64 employees. We are located in greater Cincinnati
+with offices in Cincinnati, or in Ohio and in Kentucky.
+ All of us live in a global economy with trillions of
+transactions in millions of markets, driving commerce in every
+corner of the world. However, any accurate reading of data will
+show that almost all economies, and certain the United States'
+economy, is driven by small business. In the United States,
+small business is the growth engine for jobs and critical to
+our place on the world economic stage. You know this. Small
+business encompasses 99.7 percent of United States employer
+firms; half of all employment; 60 percent of all new jobs; 98
+percent of all exporting firms; and 46 percent of private
+sector output. And the list goes on.
+ As competitors in the world economy, all businesses,
+particularly small businesses, need to get their products to
+their customers in the most efficient way possible. The
+transmission of goods is dependent on adequate transportation
+infrastructure, particularly sound, effective roads, and
+bridges. Alarmingly, our country's transportation
+infrastructure is in such poor condition that it is stifling
+our economy.
+ The facts are frightful. And again, you know, this. Over
+70,000 bridges are structurally deficient; 40 percent of the
+urban roads are congested. We waste $160 billion due to
+congestion every year. And, the problem is not just economic;
+30 percent of all accidents are the result of poor road
+conditions, and highway deaths in this country have risen to
+over 40,000 per year. The country's infrastructure network
+problem is so large, it is estimated it would take a trillion
+dollars just to bring it up to standard.
+ While the burden of our deteriorating infrastructure
+affects all businesses and their employees, it falls most
+heavily on small businesses. Small businesses, like mine, are
+least able to absorb the impacts of road delays on fuel costs
+and wasted time.
+ Small businesses, almost by definition, are closer to their
+customers than larger companies. The currency of small business
+is not only the American dollar but the trust I must have with
+my customers who live on our streets, in our communities, in my
+neighborhood, and around my region. If our employees are stuck
+in traffic and cannot be on time for appointments, my customers
+can easily find my competitors by pressing a button on their
+cell phones and getting them out there if they are down the
+street. If my fuel costs and other costs rise because of wasted
+time in traffic, I cannot just pass them on to unknown
+stockholders. My employees, my wife, and I bear the brunt of
+lost dollars due to poor infrastructure that we cannot reinvest
+in our community.
+ In my part of the country, we have one of the Nation's most
+critically needed infrastructure projects, the Brent Spence
+Bridge. Maybe you have heard of it.
+ The Brent Spence Bridge does cross the Ohio River at
+Cincinnati into my home county in Kentucky. However, it also
+connects Michigan to Miami and other points north to south
+because it is the lynchpin of the I-75 and I-71 trade
+corridors. The bridge was constructed to carry 80,000 vehicles
+a day, and now carries over 160,000 vehicles a day. And I can
+see them from my office. It was engineered over 50 years ago to
+handle 3,000 trucks per day and now carries over 30,000 trucks
+per day.
+ Years ago, the safety side lanes were moved, making a
+simple lane change a dangerous maneuver, and the cost of
+congestion caused by the bridge is approaching a billion
+dollars a year. The value of the Brent Spence Bridge to our
+Nation and to our region is obvious because over this bridge a
+billion of freight passes every day. The Brent Spence Bridge is
+the poster child of the aging and inadequate infrastructure in
+our country and Federal and state officials have been there
+regularly to use it as a backdrop to know that we have to make
+a change.
+ I would like to thank Congressman Chabot especially for all
+he has done over the years to put the needs of the Brent Spence
+Bridge front and center in front of Congress.
+ And if you look at the traffic on the Brent Spence Bridge,
+you will not only see hundreds of semitrailers, but you will
+see thousands of panel trucks and services vehicles just like
+mine. Every day, those small trucks carrying so much of our
+region's and Nation's economy fight thousands of hours of delay
+to get to our customers.
+ I thank this Committee's work on working on behalf of small
+business, and I want to let you know that I am here ready to
+help you in any way possible in the future. Thank you so much.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. We really appreciate all
+you have to share with us today.
+ I am going to recognize myself for 5 minutes. And I would
+like to start with Mr. Donovan.
+ For carriers both large and small, buildout in rural areas
+is often prohibitively expensive. What can be done to help
+carriers remain competitive in this area of doing possible
+infrastructure expansion?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Thank you for that question, Chairwoman.
+ You are correct. In some places, after 30 years of building
+wireless networks, places that still are not served are likely
+because there is not a business case to build out those
+networks with private capital alone. The FCC does have the
+Universal Service Fund to provide some assistance, but that is
+not enough to close the size of the gap that we have. As you
+continue to work on an infrastructure package, we would
+strongly urge you to include dedicated funding to make sure
+that we can close the digital divide.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Other than costs that you discussed
+with us this morning, what are the largest barriers to rural
+broadband competition and access?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. So there are additional factors other than
+direct spending that can make builds more expensive or take
+more time. That includes the permitting process, moving through
+that, access to Federal lands is particularly important in
+rural areas as so much of rural areas is Federal lands. And so
+working with the relevant agencies to get approval so that
+carriers can have the confidence and the certainty to put their
+capital to work to build out these networks.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
+ Ms. Williams, as agencies continue to identify and
+prioritize cyber standards, it is very likely more procurement
+obligations will be implemented because the energy grid is
+related to our nation's infrastructure and also vulnerable to
+cyberattacks. What can we do to ensure small contractors are
+best situated to evolve to new cybersecurity guidelines?
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. Thank you for that question.
+ I think the best thing we can do is to keep conducting
+specific training events, outreach evenings, continue that one-
+on-one guidance for them because a lot of the perception is
+that they have to invest enormous amounts of financing and
+monies to get their systems secure. But not knowing or not
+having all of the information of things that they can do as far
+as training their employees, having adequate processes in place
+that they can do themselves is critical to them in complying
+with the requirements.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Do you feel that the Small Business
+Administration is doing enough in the area of education and
+providing information to small businesses so that we empower
+them with the information they need?
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. I think they have been doing a lot in
+providing specific webinars or specific, some training events.
+But again, what I have been finding is that the small
+businesses really need a lot of hand holding and that is where
+specific areas can help with that.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
+ Ms. Bougher, energy and infrastructure are inherently
+linked together and existing electricity infrastructure is
+aging rapidly. Inarguably, the United States' energy problems
+are largely rooted in its crumbling infrastructure. An influx
+of investment must be considered in order to prevent additional
+weather events from exacerbating its delicate state as we saw
+in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria. What steps can we take
+now to modernize our energy grid and how can that further the
+growth of the small business sector?
+ Ms. BOUGHER. Thank you, Chairwoman.
+ I think it goes back to infrastructure and how are we
+utilizing the right modern, up-to-date, latest innovation? Are
+we really thinking ahead to try to create an infrastructure
+that can prevent or at least reduce a level of impact that
+these mostly, for the most part, natural disasters are
+bringing? There is very little we can do to control that and to
+control the intensity, but there is a lot more that we can do
+to create infrastructure systems that can withstand, if not
+reduce the level of impact.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. My time has expired, we
+will do a second round and Mr. Knochelmann, my first question
+will be to you.
+ Now I recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ Judge Knochelmann, I will go with you to begin with. And
+not surprisingly, I think I will talk about the Brent Spence
+Bridge.
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. Sure.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Could you, and we have talked about that. We
+have worked on it for a long time. And when I say ``we,'' I
+mean all levels of government. I think we have gotten $53
+million so far. Most of that has gone into engineering studies,
+EPA studies, and kind of the preparations for it. But could you
+remind us again, and this not only affects the folks obviously
+in my district and the greater Cincinnati area, and all the way
+up to Michigan and probably into Canada as well, but also the
+folks on the other side of the Ohio River in Kentucky where you
+are at, but all the way down to Florida. Could you remind us
+what actually replacing the bridge, what the direct and
+indirect impacts would be to the communities in our area? And
+then if you want to touch on small businesses as well, how it
+would affect them since we are the Small Business Committee.
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. Sure. Well, and I think one important
+note, we think about this bridge in our region as being the
+replacement bridge. I think it is important for everyone to
+remember the existing plan, the design that has been done is to
+actually keep the existing bridge, not waste it, refurbish it,
+and add a companion bridge next to it. So the good news is past
+dollars of decades ago would not be wasted; they are just
+improved.
+ And then the access through that entire region, which is
+the project is estimated to be a $2.5 billion project today,
+but it would actually include about a 15 to 20 mile swath of
+expressway that also needs to be expanded though that
+community, which obviously ties in one of our key airports, CVG
+in Cincinnati, which happens to be in Kentucky. Amazon Prime
+has just relocated or is going to be growing a $1.5 billion
+project there for their regional----
+ Mr. CHABOT. And just to clarify that, we are not talking
+about taking away Ms. Velazquez's New York project.
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. No, absolutely not. This was well before--
+--
+ Mr. CHABOT. Yeah, okay. I would not want to upset the Chair
+now since she is Chair now.
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. But Amazon has announced a large expansion
+at our airport in Cincinnati. And so we are talking about major
+infrastructure, national importance to get product and
+services, as well as the wonderful thing about what is
+happening with the project is small businesses are there to
+serve them. So we have small carriers in our area who are
+actually serving the future Amazon prime with their own freight
+businesses. So we see that impact. We see the economic impact.
+We see the improvement opportunity that infrastructure can make
+into the cities and the counties and the community, as well as
+the quality of life that we see improving just because people
+are able to get connected across the state. So it is needed.
+And of course, our hope is that we never see an issue where,
+like Minneapolis where we have something catastrophic happen.
+We would rather be proactive.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much. And just to conclude, one
+thing I wanted to mention, I am sure you are aware of this,
+we--and when I say ``we'' again, not just myself, other members
+here on both sides of the aisle--have been successful in
+getting something called Projects of National and Regional
+Significance into the previous transportation bill. So there is
+an access, there is a pot of money there waiting. It will not
+fund the whole thing but a significant part of it. But the
+local communities, obviously, and Ohio and Kentucky have to
+determine how they are going to come up with a local part of
+the funding. And that has kind of been the challenge in recent
+years. Thank you very much.
+ Ms. Williams, let me turn to you. Could you elaborate on
+the challenges, and we have talked about this in this Committee
+a lot over the years, that small businesses face that comes
+from the cybersecurity threat and what kind of impact there can
+be on a small business if they are successfully hacked?
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. So we have had, well, when I say ``we,'' UTSA
+and our Procurement Technical Assistance Center office services
+many small businesses. A lot of times they do not come to us as
+a resource until they have been hacked. And that is when they
+will come to the trainer or come to the classes and they will
+talk about the impact of them being hacked and losing all of
+their customer information. Or making their customers
+vulnerable to having their information out there and stolen. At
+some point, or at one point they literally will have to shut
+down their business because all of their records have been
+compromised. So it is a great impact when they have been
+hacked.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. My time is about ready to expire,
+and I would just note that I know we have heard testimony that
+there is a pretty high percentage of small businesses that
+literally go out of businesses after a hack. They just cannot
+survive. So it can be a very serious and devastating event. And
+I yield back. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
+ And now I recognize Ms. Finkenauer, Chairwoman of the
+Subcommittee on Rural Development, Agriculture, Trade, and
+Entrepreneurship for 5 minutes.
+ Ms. FINKENAUER. Thank you, Madam. I always do that. Thank
+you, Madam Chair. And thank you to our guests here today as
+well. I really appreciate you being here and talking about this
+very important topic.
+ I get very excited talking about transportation
+infrastructure. I also, besides having the honor to sit on the
+Small Business Committee, I sit on the Transportation
+Infrastructure Committee as well, where March is going to be
+infrastructure month. So I am very hopeful we can actually
+start moving forward here and it is incredibly important that
+we do. I am from Iowa. We actually have the most structurally
+deficient bridges in the entire country. On top of that, we
+rank number 39 in broadband connectivity, which is a problem
+when I am from Iowa and our agriculture economy, our farmers
+are relying on cloud-based services and the internet to be able
+to use precision ag the way that they need to to be able to
+save money and, you know, again, be able to do what they need
+to do in the field.
+ Along with that, we are also desperately trying to grow
+rural American and a big part of that is making sure that we
+have broadband in all parts of my state. And so this is
+something, again, I am really excited to talk about. And Mr.
+Donovan, I know this is really kind of your wheelhouse as well.
+And I want to know, you know, I have been having a lot of
+conversations about this lately, and we all know there are
+areas of our country where we desperately need broadband. We
+need to expand it. But for example, I just had the National
+Association of County Administrators in the other day and one
+of their things is, you know, well, we know we need it. We do
+not always know exactly where because of the FCC data. And so
+one of the things they have been doing, you know, there was
+somebody who had an app showing, you know, depending on where
+you are at in the county you can use your app and that data
+will go in and you can see what your connectivity is and your
+download speeds, which is creative and a good idea. But what
+more do we need to be doing, especially on the Federal level
+here to make sure that we have the data we need to know where
+we need to be expanding?
+ I know one of the things I am working on right now is a
+bill that would address some of these issues, but I want to
+make sure we are doing everything the right way, and wondering
+if you have any suggestions about what we should be looking at
+to make sure, again, we know exactly where we need to be
+investing.
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Thank you. It is such an important part of the
+discussion, especially as these maps and what the coverage
+should have is going to determine where any funding is going to
+go, to build it out. For the Mobility Fund USF, we have
+overstated coverage that is going to determine where $4.5
+billion gets invested. In December, the FCC had a different
+report that claimed that approximately 100 percent of the
+population lives in geography with 4G coverage. We have got to
+do better than that, and it needs to be more--it should be
+dependent on collecting better data at the FCC and the Federal
+level, instead of relying on local administrators pushing a
+button on an app to prove where they do or do not have service.
+It should not be offloaded onto industry and state and local
+governments to prove the negative. We need to tighten up those
+standards and make sure we are starting with reliable data.
+ Ms. FINKENAUER. Great. Thank you.
+ And this one just to shift gears a little bit, Ms.
+Williams, I am happy to have you here as well. And one of the
+things I get really excited about as well is making sure,
+again, that rural America has more opportunities, and that
+means getting to compete for government contracts. And so that
+was actually my first bill in the House, was making sure that
+the Small Business Administration and the procurement officers
+were working with small businesses to be able to compete for
+government contracts and research grants, which is great. But
+when we are looking right now at an infrastructure package that
+will be, hopefully again getting done here, how do we make sure
+that our small businesses are able to compete for those? And is
+there anything else we should be doing to look out for that to
+again make sure they are able to get these contracts?
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. Thank you. Great question.
+ I think a lot of I has to do with information. With making
+sure that they understand the resources that are out there that
+are available. A lot of times we have businesses that come to
+us after they have already paid a consultant to do something
+that is already being paid for through the Federal government,
+through the SBA, through the Department of Defense. And being
+paid for in the form of having advisors and counselors
+available to help them navigate through the process. SBA has,
+or the Federal Government has contracting goals. Six out of 10
+of those goals consistently are met, but women-owned
+businesses, that goal continues to be lacking. HUB-zone
+business goals, that continues to be lacking. So making sure
+they have information is very, very important.
+ Ms. FINKENAUER. Thank you. I appreciate that.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady's time has expired.
+ Ms. FINKENAUER. I yield back.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. And now we recognize the gentleman
+from Ohio, Mr. Balderson, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on
+Innovation and Workforce Development, for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. BALDERSON. Like my colleague, I forget the microphone,
+too. So I apologize.
+ Mr. Knochelmann, good morning. And thank you for being here
+and for representing my state of Ohio, too, with Congressman
+Chabot. I also sit on the Transportation Infrastructure
+Committee, and I can personally attest to the infrastructure
+issues that we are dealing with in Ohio. And right now Governor
+DeWine has just proposed, and they are doing the budget, the
+transportation budget work there now as we see what is going on
+there.
+ I have had a chance to learn the opportunities that are out
+there on a national level and what infrastructure is facing.
+And I, like my colleague, agree that, you know, we need to
+address this issue. And that is one of the main reasons I went
+on this Committee because I think it is something that we can
+do.
+ What can Congress do to help small business owners overcome
+some of these transportation issues that you referred to with
+your company?
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. Sure. Thank you, Congressman.
+ I think maybe one of the key factors, I think, is to really
+be able to listen and know that small businesses are willing to
+make an investment in infrastructure. That we not expecting and
+do not look to the state or the Federal Government to take care
+of even state and Federal roads. We know that our businesses
+generate those dollars that you are so good about making sure
+you dispense across the country. So I think one of the big
+topics, as you referred to, is Governor DeWine's talking about
+bringing up a gas tax. And I can tell you, I will speak for
+myself as a business owner with literally 50 trucks on the road
+every day, I am happy to invest in a gas tax that goes to roads
+and bridges. I know that most, if not a super majority of my
+friends and colleagues in my industry, those who have 50 trucks
+or semis, et cetera, they say the same thing. As long as it is
+not diverted, we want to make sure it goes into concrete,
+blacktop, bridges, et cetera, to make sure that it moves our
+economy forward. I think that that is a message that needs to
+be heard loud and clear because I do not think that
+infrastructure is partisan. You know, we all want them, and we
+all know we have to pay for it. And I think that as long as it
+is a partnership, and when I think across the levels of
+government, as well as among the states and your governor and
+our governor in Kentucky have been, I think, working very
+professionally about how to present that to the public in a way
+that is--and the business community. So I think just listen.
+ Mr. BALDERSON. Thank you very much.
+ My next question is for Mr. Donovan. And thank you for
+being here.
+ We know about broadband. We have been talking about it for
+a long time. I came into the state legislature in 2008. They
+were talking about broadband and lack of. My former Senate
+district is very rural, Appalachia region. And it is a weekly
+occurrence of, you know, not having access to small business
+owners in those rural communities. So having been talking about
+it since even before 2008, I mean, what can Congress do to
+deploy this and get some, you know, faster action? I mean, you
+talked about some of the regulatory processes that we have to
+go through and the permitting issues, and mostly the national
+lands. Those are some things that we do not have to deal with
+in the region of the state that we are lacking. It is mostly
+the terrain and the hills. And I just did not know if there was
+anything out there that you could suggest to us that we can do
+to deploy that a little bit quicker.
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Thank you. The cost to deploy goes up
+tremendously when you are going through mountainous areas and
+rough terrain. One thing that there have been efforts
+previously is to push that in programs like the Universal
+Service Fund, to include a terrain factor so that if you are
+having--flat prairie lands are not competing for the same
+dollars against mountainous terrain so that you can have some
+sort of bid credit or balance that out to compete on a level
+playing field there. Additionally, continuing to push for
+additional spectrum to be available for wireless carriers to
+deploy. I talked in my opening statement about low-, mid-, and
+high-band frequencies. Low band frequencies, actually, they
+penetrate through obstructions and cover longer distances so
+particularly in rural areas using those signals can help you
+serve a greater area off of the same tower. Currently, the FCC
+is working on, at Congress's direction, we reallocated some
+spectrum frequencies from broadcasters, reimbursed them, and
+are using that now for wireless carrier service. That repack
+process is ongoing. Once that is complete, these low band
+spectrum will be put to use and can tremendously help expand
+service availability in rural areas.
+ Mr. BALDERSON. Okay. Thank you very much.
+ Madam Chair, I yield back.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
+ And now we recognize Ms. Davis, congress member from
+Kansas.
+ Ms. DAVIS. From the great state of Kansas.
+ Thank you, Chairwoman. And I appreciate you calling this
+hearing today. I also sit on the small business committee and
+the transportation and infrastructure Committee. And so because
+of that I am becoming that much more aware of the interplay and
+the need to invest in kind of these core infrastructure issues
+in our communities. You know, the Kansas City Metro area, and
+my district includes Overland Park, Kansas, and Olathe, and
+Lenexa. We have got a ton of businesses that are very dependent
+on things like broadband. We are also seeking to expand our
+reach into things like transit and that sort of thing. And all
+of these things are playing in together. You know, our area was
+the first google fiber city in the country, and Ride KC is our
+transit. You know, we have got this awesome thing going on. It
+has got Wi-Fi on it. So we are trying to figure out ways to
+make sure that when we are doing one thing we are also
+addressing another, like internet access.
+ So when I think about how we build infrastructure that will
+be good for us and for our grandchildren, certainly, broadband
+is at the top of mine. And so Mr. Donovan, you said a couple of
+things earlier that I thought were really interesting. And
+obviously, broadband is a vital, economic driver. And there are
+lots of small firms, and you mentioned the number of smaller
+carriers you have. And that there are not just monetary but
+regulatory barriers. And specifically, you said that there were
+unnecessary reviews. I am curious what you mean by that. And
+then I want to do a follow up about tightening up
+accountability which you also mentioned. You know, I guess I
+would love to hear about both of those two things.
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Sure. Thank you.
+ So in terms of the reviews, when we're looking at that, the
+FCC is working on modernizing some of their review processes.
+But you don't need to go through the same review for a small
+cell the size of a backpack that goes up in an afternoon, as a
+200-foot tower that you are building along the side of a
+highway.
+ Ms. DAVIS. And right now that review process is the same
+for a lot of carriers?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. The FCC is in the process of implementing some
+changes there that are actually estimated to save about $2
+billion off the cost. And that is real money that can then be
+put back into the networks to further expand it. For smaller
+firms doing this, that cost of the delay and additional fees is
+even more dramatic as you are operating on a much tighter
+margin with fewer resources to be able to put into play.
+ Ms. DAVIS. and then earlier you were talking about
+increasing accountability for purposes of--I believe you were
+talking about for purposes of what is the actual coverage and
+that it would be great for Congress to have reliable maps. Can
+you expand on that a little bit?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Happily. So, the FCC that collects data for
+particularly, for the Mobility Fund, they set standards looking
+at if there is an 80 percent likelihood that you will have
+signal at a certain loading factor, the certain number of
+people using that tower. If you can tighten that up, include
+signal strength, then you have a more direct idea of where you
+actually have coverage without having to then have people go
+out and test it. We learned through that process, there is a
+challenge process off that initial map. And after reviewing
+over 20 million data points that did not even come close to
+touching as much of the country that needed to be checked, the
+FCC found significant flaws. So they are currently
+investigating that and we want to give them credit for that.
+ But as we look at future data collections, if we can have
+parameters that more accurately reflect what you experience on
+the ground, we will be starting off with a better map.
+ Ms. DAVIS. Okay. And then last thing. And I was hoping to
+ask more questions but 5 minutes is so short.
+ What does accountability look like? What do you think
+accountability? What should be the consequence?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. So the consequence should be going back and--
+making a measurement one time does not need to be the last
+time. We should keep going until we have it right. What is the
+right map? It is what you know from traveling in your district
+and knowing where your dead zones are. And making sure that the
+data reflects that so we can set policies to fix that problem.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady's time has expired,
+and she yields back.
+ And now we recognize the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Hern
+for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. HERN. I appreciate it very much. Thanks for the
+witnesses for being here today.
+ As an engineer, lifelong business man, and spending 5 years
+on the Oklahoma Turn pike Authority as the Finance Committee
+Chair, I certainly understand how vital infrastructure is to
+small businesses and the necessary burdens that are put on by
+the government to achieve the infrastructure repairs that we
+needed to do and the costs associated with those.
+ Ms. Bougher, I am going to get right to the questions here
+because I think you, you know, dealing with infrastructure and
+contracting with them, you certainly understand those. Could
+you help us understand what public-private partnerships, how
+those look and what are your thoughts on those as a person
+dealing directly with the infrastructure?
+ Ms. BOUGHER. Sure, actually, thank you for asking that
+question.
+ We just recently completed--I do not know if you are
+familiar with the P3 Bridge replacement program in
+Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania used a P3, a public-private
+partnership to complete about 556 bridges and that is in
+response to the deficient bridges, the number of deficient
+bridges in the state, and is an effort to move that needle at
+the right level. And we just completed the NEPA clearance for
+$459 of those bridges in 15 months. And so talk about the
+challenges with the P3 process. It is a funding alternative.
+But there needs to be better communication. From my experience,
+much better communication between the concessionaires, the
+contractors and the engineers. And so it is a big team effort.
+Usually these projects tend to be really timely, with very
+tight deadlines. And without that communication it could be
+challenging.
+ I guess another example is the Turnpike Commission in
+Pennsylvania just asked us to do a clearance, environmental
+clearance for 270 miles, and this is related to what Mr.
+Donovan is also talking about because they are looking to use
+the existing right-of-way of the Pennsylvania Turnpike to
+provide broadband access. They are also planning on that
+through a P3. And I recently heard that it looks like it is
+going to be more design build. But regardless, it is, again,
+going back to looking at what makes more sense to do as a
+public-private partnership and what benefits both parties will
+get out of that partnership, which is not always even. And so I
+think there is some work that needs to be done there but that
+would be my response.
+ Mr. HERN. Fair enough. And just to continue with this
+conversation, as that being a possibility of how to fund our
+infrastructure in the future, obviously, the private part has
+an interest how they get repaid. They are ROI on their
+investment which is much different than the public side.
+ So keeping that thought, what do you see, as we know, the
+Highway Trust Fund is basically front-end loaded until the end
+of this year and then we have a problem with funding that going
+forward. What do you see as some viable, maybe the most
+effective and efficient ways? I am familiar with the trucking
+industry. Would like to see fuel being charged or upcharged,
+increased across the board. Are there any other ways you see?
+ Ms. BOUGHER. I would not give up on the public-private
+partnerships. I actually think that these are fairly new, at
+least to the state of Pennsylvania and Maryland in my
+experience. I think that we can still do a lot with that type
+of agreement, with that type of partnership. So I would not
+necessarily give up on the P3s. And I do think that alternative
+funding could provide that balance that we need between the
+Federal and state funding and coming from the private sector.
+ Having said that, I still think that there are a lot of
+things that we can do internally through the Federal Government
+to----
+ Mr. HERN. So if I may, I have got one other question I want
+to ask. And this is to Mr. Knochelmann.
+ Since you are a small business owner and have a trucking
+industry, what else do you think we should be working on
+outside of transportation? My point to asking that question of
+Ms. Bougher was to show that we all agree that there is an
+issue. We have got to fix it. What we have a difference on is
+how we are going to pay for it. And that is for RT&I folks to
+figure out but again, it is for us to point that out.
+ What do you see quickly as some other opportunities or
+things that this Committee should focus on in helping small
+businesses?
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. Thank you for the question. I think the
+other idea, and you talked about it, a few members talked about
+it earlier, is innovation. You know, what kind of ideas can be
+aggressively gone after, whether that be with special grants to
+evaluate. How do we become more innovative in how we are moving
+people around our communities and businesses? Does it make it
+more efficient? And can we reduce costs? Whether it be the
+capital cost and/or the overall cost of operation of these,
+whether it be a P3 or otherwise, I think that we have got to be
+more innovative. And I think there is a lot of small businesses
+and a lot of young innovative people in our colleges and in our
+communities who are willing to look at that in aggressive ways.
+ Mr. HERN. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman's time has expired.
+ And now we recognize the gentleman from Maine, Mr. Golden,
+for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ Just kind of following up on that conversation a little
+bit. I have become very familiar with public-private
+partnerships in Maine, and I think it is a new thing in Maine
+as well, ma'am. I served on the Transportation Committee in the
+Maine legislature and I think we get a lot of good, you know,
+we stretch our dollars nicely that way.
+ But I do have a concern that I want to keep in mind in this
+Committee about the proposal that has come out of the
+administration for infrastructure. And that is simply to make
+sure that we do not leave some states behind, Maine being one
+of them where we also have a State Highway Fund that is
+underwater. You know, in many ways bonding our way out of it,
+which is almost like swiping a credit card to pay for basic
+maintenance. And it is not a good situation to be in. And when
+I hear that we may have an infrastructure package that
+prioritizes those states that have more private resources, more
+state resources to put up and match, you know, I am fearful, of
+course, that those that just do not have the capital resources
+might get left out. So you know, something that I am going to
+be looking to make sure states like Maine do not get left
+behind.
+ On that, earlier we had a hearing where someone said one of
+the most important things we needed to do in an infrastructure
+package was make sure that the money got down to Main Street.
+And I am sure that was a reference to businesses like your own.
+So I just wanted to give you an opportunity to maybe talk a
+little bit about what we can do. I hear a lot of small business
+owners say it is tough for them to get involved with Federal
+projects because it takes so long to actually get the shovels
+in the ground and they just cannot float the upfront costs. So
+if you could maybe just talk a little bit about that. What can
+we do to speed up the process? Because in your testimony you
+hinted at it a little bit.
+ Ms. BOUGHER. In my case, with an environmental firm that
+works with environmental permitting all the time, I can tell
+you that there are a lot of things that we can do within that
+process to make it more efficient. Like Mr. Knochelmann
+referred to being more efficient and being more innovative is
+allowing those small businesses to come up with the ideas, and
+they can. They do this work all the time. We work on this. This
+is our bread and butter. And we can suggest ways to make it
+more efficient. And innovative ways that may not be how it has
+been done for the last 50 years, but maybe a better way to do
+it and now a better way that belongs more to the, you know,
+more up to date. And I think our systems in terms of review
+process have been going around for many, many years. And we
+have not really reconsidered whether or not they are still
+necessary and whether or not we require as many days with all
+that we can do online, all that we can do very quickly, we are
+still keeping those same review times that we had back when we
+were using snail mail. And so that may not be necessary any
+more. Just things like that is what I can think off the top of
+my head right now that we can, you know, and small businesses
+can definitely help.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. So shorten the period of time for review
+process is something that we should look at as an example.
+ Ms. BOUGHER. Yes. Yes.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. But when you say getting small businesses more
+involved in the planning of projects, is that an issue with,
+let's say, working with State Departments of Transportation? Is
+that what you are saying? Is it the Federal Government should
+encourage more of a partnership in the planning process?
+ Ms. BOUGHER. I think having a seat at the table early on,
+and it is not necessarily that they do not take it into account
+right now, but being able to say, and it is not necessarily so
+much about being a small business that can contribute, but
+being experts in the field. Our business right now is small
+because we are a specialty firm. And what we specialize on is
+environmental permitting and NEPA clearance. So we go out to
+the experts and ask them, how do you think it can be done more
+efficiently? That would be a suggestion.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you.
+ Mr. Donovan, I think I have got time for one more exchange
+here.
+ Something that happens in Maine a lot, and you talked about
+how coverage is overstated. And I could not agree with you
+more. Many a small town has some broadband running down Main
+Street, and they are doing a good job of rebuilding Main
+Street. They run out of space though and then growth is
+basically stuck. Because when you talk to people they will say,
+yeah, you know, it is nice on the downtown. We have got good
+access to broadband or faster internet, but you get a mile out
+of town and the consumers, their market is in the dark. So I
+just want to give you a chance maybe to talk about what
+Congress can do working with carriers to try and get at that
+problem right there because I do think it is overstated. Maine,
+on the map here, said that only 14 percent are without access
+to broadband. There is no way that is true.
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Yeah, thank you, Congressman. For where you
+are locating on Main Street, you know, it is not just location,
+location, location. Now it is location, location, and is there
+broadband, is what businesses are looking at. Or else, you do
+not exist if you do not exist on there. You know, Senator King
+uses the phrase that there is no silver bullet but there is
+silver buckshot for solving this digital divide. So we want to
+embrace in all the above strategy.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
+ And now we recognize the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr.
+Hagedorn, for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. HAGERDON. Thank you, Madam Chair, and Ranking
+Republican. I appreciate that. Witnesses, thanks for your
+testimony.
+ One of the most important things that I am trying to help
+accomplish is to sustain agriculture and our rural way of life,
+and a lot of that involves, of course, the success of small
+businesses. And I have come to the conclusion that the best way
+to level the playing field and to do all we can for our small
+businesses is to eliminate bad government at every level of
+government, especially here at the Federal Government. And when
+you look at areas like regulations and taxes, I think
+Obamacare, which has not been good for small business, and
+energy independence, things of that nature, we have got a lot
+of work to do. Trade is another area.
+ And I would like to focus in though on transportation. In
+our district, Southern Minnesota, the district goes all the way
+from South Dakota to Wisconsin and then Iowa up about 80 miles.
+There is a main thoroughfare, Highway 14. It is the most
+densely populated, contiguous road without a--that does not
+include four lanes all the way across. And it has quite an
+impact on business and commerce and efficiency. And it all
+relates back to small business in our rural communities.
+ I will give you a little story. In the city of New Ulm, a
+beautiful community of about 14,000, it is in Brown County,
+just a wonderful place. 3M is located there. Lots of good
+businesses. But the mayor and some of the Economic Development
+folks told me a story a year or two ago where there was a
+company that was looking to relocate into New Ulm. Going to
+bring in 500 to 1,000 jobs. And the representative of that
+company drove in and looked around and said, is the only way in
+and out of town two lanes? And they said, yeah, unfortunately,
+that is the way it is. And they said, okay, thanks. And they
+got back in their car and left. And so there are 500 or 1,000
+jobs not in that wonderful, vibrant community that could be
+even stronger. And of course, that is a larger business. But
+think of what those folks are going to do if they live there,
+shop there, you know, go to school there, how it helps all
+involved, especially small businesses.
+ So I know my friend, Mr. Stauber, Congressman Stauber, is
+on the Committee of Transportation. I am looking to work with
+him and everyone else because there is a project, Highway 14,
+that people, including my father 44 years ago when he arrived
+here, he started working on that and we still have not
+completed it. So I understand exactly how important
+infrastructure of that nature is.
+ I would say to our friend, Mr. Donovan, thank you for your
+staff for stopping by our office yesterday. We appreciate what
+you are doing and looking into in the issues.
+ Do you have an example or two that you can provide us as to
+how broadband is so critically important for our farmers and
+our small agri businesses in places like southern Minnesota?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Thank you.
+ So when we look at farming today, you almost become
+agricultural engineers with the amount of connectivity that
+they depend on. So precision agriculture techniques will allow
+farmers to be more efficient and have more profitable yields
+while using fewer resources. And there has been a lot of talk
+of autonomous vehicles generally as things that 5G will enable.
+And we have had them in rural America for years, they are just
+John Deere green. They are based on following that wireless
+connection in order to power how they are operating.
+ Mr. HAGERDON. Thank you. I will give you another example. I
+grew up on a grain and livestock farm. We had hogs, and my
+father would send me out on occasion to feed the hogs, but now
+they can do that all automatic. They sit in a computer room and
+turn the machines on and off and nobody has to even get close
+to the animals in many cases.
+ Mr. DONOVAN. I will add on to that, if I may. In addition
+to feeding them, you even have applications that are
+essentially a Fitbit for piglets that can track them and you
+can see where the animals are. And that actually, it helps
+prevent instances where the pigs get smothered while they are
+getting fed and in other instances, you can track the vitals.
+It is pretty incredible what you can do with these connections.
+ Mr. HAGERDON. Very good.
+ Very quickly, Ms. Williams, I would ask you a quick
+question, your analysis. Do you support the Small Business
+Runway Extension Act of 2018, which affects small businesses
+and their qualifications during the procurement process? What
+is your opinion of that legislation?
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. Thanks for asking.
+ I would have to say I am not familiar with it. I have not
+read that piece of legislation.
+ Mr. HAGERDON. It is a relatively new bill and I am sorry if
+I caught you off guard. But maybe you can submit something for
+the record and respond to us down the road.
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. I would be glad to do that.
+ Mr. HAGERDON. With that I yield back. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back. And now we
+recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Veasey, for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. VEASEY. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ You know, as we talk about expanding our broadband and
+moving it out to rural America, one area that I am concerned,
+and I am fully supportive of that. I think it is very important
+that we expand our broadband. One area that I think that we
+need to address now before we start any large expansive
+movement of that is when those contracting opportunities take
+place to help build out that broadband, that black-owned,
+woman-owned, minority-owned firms are a part of that work that
+actually takes place. I think that is critically important on
+everything that we do for that matter, whether it is expanding
+our green infrastructure or any of those things that we talk
+about that are on the horizon for helping create a better
+America.
+ And so with that I wanted to ask Ms. Williams, because I
+know that you have some background in helping out small
+businesses, as it relates to expanding contracting
+opportunities for small businesses, can you speak on how
+retainage and prompt pay affects the growth of small businesses
+and contractors, specifically when they are trying to be able
+to have enough capital to be able to work on various projects,
+different projects if their money is being held up?
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. Thank you for that question. Great question.
+ We have dealt, in my 30 years of experience in dealing with
+small businesses, not only through this program but at the
+local level as well, all of those issues have been significant
+to small business growth. On local projects retainage has
+definitely been an issue. Not only that but bonding continues
+to be an issue, as well as prompt payment. That also relates to
+access to capital. That is one of the reasons why they need
+significant access to capital is to be able to cover some of
+those expenses while they are waiting for payment. With Federal
+Government contracting prompt payment continues to be an issue.
+We continue to see business after business come to us for
+assistance to find out where they can gain more access. Some of
+them tend to go to organizations where they submit their
+contract or borrow on their contract while they are waiting to
+get paid. So that continues to be an issue. We continue to look
+for resources to help them. Some local governments have
+provisions in place to speed up that prompt payment process but
+we have not heard anything as far as expediting that at the
+Federal level.
+ Mr. VEASEY. I know a local contractor in the Dallas-Fort
+Worth area that told me that they were owed about $600,000 on a
+project that they were working on and literally did not get it
+for almost 9 months. And for a lot of small businesses,
+particularly smaller, you know, black-owned companies,
+Hispanic-owned companies, that could be really a death blow.
+ What other challenges out there do small businesses face?
+Again, particularly, you know, small minority-owned businesses
+face when working with the Federal Government on bids and
+projects?
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. Navigating through the system is a huge
+challenge. Again, a lot of them try to do it on their own
+before coming to resource providers. Having proper paperwork in
+place. Having their business structures in place. So those
+areas continue to be an issue. Once they get those in place,
+then they can focus on actually providing the service. But
+navigating through the system continues to be an issue.
+ Mr. VEASEY. Madam Chair, I yield back.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
+ And now we recognize the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr.
+Stauber, for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you,
+witnesses, for coming. Your testimony is enlightening because
+we are talking about small businesses owners. I am a small
+business owner and have been for 28 years. We know, and the
+four of you know that small businesses are the engine of our
+economy.
+ A couple of questions. Ms. Williams, you talked about, the
+question was, what is the biggest challenge for small business?
+And you talked about navigating the system. I would encourage
+you because you are the expert, to help us incorporate some of
+those suggestions from the small businesses so it can be easier
+because, I mean, I am sure all of you understand that small
+businesses, we are assets to the Federal Government in repair,
+fixing their assets, and what have you. And so I would
+encourage you to bring those forward. From your 30 years of
+experience, Ms. Williams, you can bring a wealth of expertise
+to that in the procurement process because that is going to
+continue to expand our small businesses. That would be my
+request of you because of your expertise. And you know, when we
+talk about my good colleague from Maine talks about expanding
+broadband in the rural areas, I could not agree with him more.
+My area is rural northern Minnesota, a beautiful place to live,
+but they are not expanding because as you talked about,
+location, location, location, broadband. That is an important
+piece of the infrastructure.
+ Ms. Williams, your testimony, you concentrated in three
+areas of deploying broadand--avaiability, affordability, and
+adoption. Which of these do you think is the biggest challenge
+for small businesses?
+ Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you so much. And I definitely will
+follow up with how we can help small businesses navigate
+through that.
+ As far as broadband, affordability. Well, let me retract a
+little bit. I think accessibility is number one. Affordability,
+of course, definitely is number two. And I say accessibility
+because there is a lot of, speaking from a Texas viewpoint,
+there are a lot of areas in south Texas where just
+municipalities, the small municipalities are longing for access
+to high speed broadband.
+ We have an event called the Texas Rural Challenge where we
+meet with those municipalities and we have directly heard that
+from them. So if the municipalities are having issues, the
+small businesses also in turn are having issues just accessing
+it in their area. There are pockets where you just cannot get
+any cell phone service, let alone broadband service. So I would
+say the number one issue is accessibility.
+ Mr. STAUBER. Thank you.
+ And then my next question would be I guess to the entire
+group. I am on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
+And when we have to build, rebuild American roads and what have
+you, I would challenge us as supporters of small business, to
+understand the importance of road access into our small
+businesses, and also to make sure that our State Department of
+Transportations understand when they rebuild or reroute that
+small businesses have a voice in that. And I would encourage us
+to get into, look at those projects that hopefully will be
+appropriating very soon, but that small businesses have a voice
+in the access roads, the frontage roads, whether they are going
+to bypass or not, but have that local input. And you folks are
+the experts to do it and help us move forward.
+ I have one other question to Mr. Knochelmann. As a small
+business owner yourself, what areas do you think this Committee
+should focus on in addition to infrastructure to help us
+flourish, help small businesses flourish?
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. Well, it is a great question, Congressman.
+I think that it all comes down to education and whether or not
+we--I think about the small business. I happen to have an
+accounting degree, so I think that it was very beneficial for
+me to go right into the plumbing/heating business. Even though
+I do not install water heaters personally, I have people who do
+that. Education. You know, so you do not need a 4-year-degree
+to know how to be an entrepreneur. You do not need a 4-year
+degree to be a good business person. But I think the
+communities need access to those business ideas. And whether or
+not we encourage the education system to include it at a high
+school level, after high school, as well as having the region,
+the ability for people to come and get their quick answers, how
+do you start and grow your small business? That is a huge
+issue, and it is not very expensive.
+ Mr. STAUBER. I appreciate that answer. That was music to my
+ears.
+ Madam Chair, I yield back.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
+ And now I am going to recognize myself for 5 minutes as we
+go into a second round.
+ And to follow the line of questioning of the gentleman that
+just was asking the questions, I would like to raise--so
+imagine for a second here that we are going to enact
+legislation, an infrastructure bill. It sounds like there is
+bipartisan desire to enact such legislation. The question is,
+how are we going to pay for it? I am optimistic when I hear Mr.
+Knochelmann say that a gas tax, and many people are proposing
+such a tax increase to be able to finance it. But let's say for
+a moment that there is bipartisan support that we enact the
+legislation.
+ Ms. Bougher, you mentioned how a shortage of skilled
+workers constrain the ability of small businesses to expand
+operations. What would you say, Mr. Donovan, Mr. Knochelmann,
+and Ms. Bougher, how can it work? Talk to us about the
+workforce challenges that you will face if such legislation is
+enacted.
+ Mr. Donovan?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Thank you. We encourage your efforts to enact
+legislation and stand ready to assist in that. On the workforce
+piece, there was bipartisan legislation last Congress we would
+like to see come back looking at, particularly in the
+telecommunications world, at tower climbing and other tower
+engineering jobs-on bringing that more into community colleges
+and into local communities, so that you can start using
+additional resources to make sure that the people have the
+skills to work on broadband deployment to accomplish the goals
+that you will have in the infrastructure bill.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Ms. Bougher?
+ Ms. BOUGHER. So I have a short-term and a long-term answer
+to that question. The short-term, it is the lack of engineers.
+We would have to go back to high school. We would have to
+convince these kids to go to engineering school. And that is
+something that is going to take time. So in the short-term, I
+would think a cross-training program where engineers that may
+not be as familiar with the different areas of, you know, there
+is a structural engineer. There are very specific fields within
+the engineering field that we can help cross-train now, start
+that process now, especially with our entry level engineers so
+we can have a more diverse set of talents within the same
+engineer. That, in my opinion, would be a short-term, we can
+work on it now solution. But the long-term and most sustainable
+solution would have to be going to workforce development that
+starts at the--I would even say at the middle school level, not
+just at the college level. I think in college we are a little
+too late. So I would say we would have to--that K-12 is
+important.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
+ Mr. Knochelmann?
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. Thank you. And I would agree with
+everything that has been stated on that. And I think another
+area, and you see a shift in the culture, I think, of a
+discussion about that not everyone also needs to have a 4-year
+degree and take on a lot of debt to be able to be successful in
+the workforce environment. I think that is very healthy. We
+need to encourage that.
+ We have been drawing in our business, we have been drawing
+in a lot of individuals who are both college educated and not
+in the service industry. So we have been going to all fields,
+including encourage co-oping from high schools, seniors who
+come in and work half a day paid. And be able to feel the
+industry out to know whether or not they are going to be able
+to do that. But I also think it is a reality that the public is
+also willing to pay for infrastructure, too, because
+ultimately, as much as I would like to think that it all comes
+out of my pocket, ultimately I have to pass those costs on to
+consumers. I think they are willing to pay for good services
+and good roads and infrastructure.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
+ I yield back the balance of my time.
+ I would like to recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania,
+Mr. Joyce, for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. JOYCE. I thank the Chairwoman for yielding.
+ My question is for Mr. Donovan. What can we do to
+incentivize better relationships between providers and state,
+city, and local governments who have experienced limited
+coverage? I am from rural south central Pennsylvania, and many
+of these municipalities are hesitant to share the control with
+any other existing infrastructure.
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Thank you for the question.
+ I think part of the discussion today is we have bipartisan
+agreement that access to broadband is an economic multiplier
+and a must-have for the 21st century. As we look at the
+permitting process, the application, rights-of-way, it is
+looking at it as a partnership that is a win-win. It is an
+investment in the local community, and maybe looking a little
+less that it being a one-time, revenue generator off of
+different fees and different access, and instead taking a step
+back and looking at all the revenue that will come to that area
+because the investment is flowing in there. The investment, the
+wireless carriers are continuing to work to expand networks,
+and more of that attention is going to go where they are able
+to have a municipality that can work with them to try and find
+some creative solutions, particularly for the small carriers
+that I represent. They also live in these communities. And if
+they do not do something right by their community, they are
+going to hear about it. They are serving on local boards, so I
+think they might be some of the model on how you can work to
+improve these relationships to make sure we can get to that
+goal of expanded service.
+ Mr. JOYCE. Do you see a role in incentivizing these
+entities to work together?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Absolutely. And again, any incentives you can
+have to spur additional deployment are great. And we have seen
+that already in some states that have eased restrictions on
+small cells, are some of the first 5G cities. So how we look at
+those incentives to make sure that carriers can work with the
+municipalities to make sure we expand service.
+ Mr. JOYCE. Thank you for your concise answer.
+ I yield back.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
+ And now we recognize the gentleman from Maine, Mr. Golden,
+for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you, ma'am.
+ Not to pick on you, Mr. Donovan, but we will just keep
+going with this one. And I look forward to working with my
+colleagues on some of the regulatory stuff that might help in
+rural areas. I think that has been a good conversation.
+ I just wanted to ask, you know, getting back, I love your
+response about the buckshot, by the way. It sounds very much
+like Senator King. And as a Mainer, I understand the reference.
+ But do you foresee a time where carriers that you represent
+and others are going to see that it is a good investment for
+them to expand significantly without public assistance? Or are
+we just going to--consumers are, I think, are going to have to
+either accept that they are not going to have it or are we
+going to have to do some kind of Federal investment in the
+infrastructure or public partnerships? I mean, in the state of
+Maine, they have looked at doing bonds related to this to lay
+down the infrastructure so that carriers can then provide the
+service. But do we realistically think that carriers will ever
+see a financial incentive to do this without public investment?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Congressman, thank you.
+ Yes, we do. That is part of the exciting part of 5G
+deployment, is that in many ways it is going to affect
+everything other than your phone first. Yes, you will have
+faster speeds and greater access, but the connections that it
+will enable, can set up a river of pennies where you may not
+have as many data plans sold to people but you have additional
+sensors and other data plans that ride on that, you know,
+powered through 5G networks or some of the precursors like
+narrowband internet of things networks.
+ As one example, we represent a carrier that serves rural
+Wyoming, and they have a massive footprint but less than
+100,000 subscribers. Talking with them, they say they have
+identified another 5 million subscribers. The difference is
+that 3 million of them are cows and 2 million are sheep. So how
+can you get those connected as well? And once you build that
+network, and we may need some additional support to get the
+networks built, but then can you use that river of pennies
+approach to have many different streams that can help build a
+sustainable business case.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. So, what you are basically saying is if we do
+nothing your belief is carriers are going to bring 5G access
+out to rural America by themselves?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Parts will. I think if we do nothing then, we
+are on the wrong side of the digital divide right now and we
+need to build that bridge. Once we get there then they can
+sustain the businesses, but we do need additional support in
+order to get that initial build out.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. Gotcha. The infrastructure part?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. That is correct.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. All right. Thank you.
+ Ms. Williams, just really quickly. You talked earlier about
+how some small businesses are going out and getting some people
+to come in and advise them how to do, you know, get in on
+Federal contracting and other things, and that is essentially
+what the PTAC is for. And I have seen this firsthand where we
+had a PTAC in Bangor, Maine, and 30 miles down the road a small
+business that was paying some advisor consultant to come in
+from as far away as Boston on how they could get involved with
+pursuing some contracting opportunities relevant to their
+shipbuilding. I mean, obviously, the contractor, you know, the
+advisor is putting money into getting word out there and
+pursuing clients. What is it going to take for PTACs to compete
+against that? I mean, what are you lacking in terms of getting
+the word out about the services that you offer and then getting
+in touch with those businesses? Because I cannot help but feel
+like in the case I just described they would love to have a
+supported service through PTAC rather than paying some
+expensive consultant out of Boston.
+ Ms. WILLIAMS. Right. You are absolutely right. We come into
+scenarios every day where businesses want to get on the GSA
+schedule, General Services Administration. They have already
+paid a consultant $9,000 and still did not get on the schedule.
+They will come to a PTAC and get on the schedule in a matter of
+2 months.
+ I think one of the things that is lacking is advertisement.
+As you mentioned, a lot of the consultants put money into
+advertising and the way they advertise it makes it seem that
+they are federally connected. I came across one that actually
+used federal logos without permission. But because a lot of the
+funds that we get have to be put into services instead of
+advertising, then that is where we cannot compete with private
+consultants.
+ Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you. That is very helpful.
+ I yield back my time.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
+ And now we recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes, Mr.
+Chabot.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I think I am the
+last questioner if I am not mistaken here, so I am the only one
+that is standing between the folks in this room and lunch. So I
+will be brief.
+ So I will go to the Brent Spence Bridge and Judge
+Knochelmann.
+ When we had Elaine Chao, the head of Transportation
+Department in Cincinnati, we had a hearing with the local
+chamber folks from Kentucky and Ohio and we talked about
+principally the Brent Spence Bridge, but also the Western Hills
+Viaduct, which is another infrastructure project we are working
+on in our area. And she mentioned something that Ms. Bougher
+talked about here for a while, and that was public-private
+partnerships. With respect to local, especially the Brent
+Spence Bridge, do you have any thoughts on that area where that
+might come into play on those two particular projects, either
+one or both?
+ Mr. KNOCHELMANN. Sure. Well, I think that it has been
+proven that P3s can be done well and they can be done extremely
+poorly. And it seems as though that I think that is going to
+have to be something that is on the table for both the projects
+that you referred to. And I know that Governor Bevin has said
+the same thing, that they have to be talked about. We have got
+some issues as you are probably aware of in Kentucky with some
+legislation that local, or state legislation that has been
+problematic on the Brent Spence project.
+ But in terms of, I think what I have seen from the outside
+and all the reading that I have done and the advocates and
+opponents of it realize that the sophistication on the capital
+side has got to be balanced so that you do not have the state
+in a situation, either state in a situation where the liability
+is there and the private sector has no liability. Or that the
+freedom by which they are able to set rates, et cetera, really
+damage the state financial situation. So I think that it is
+about balance. It is about accountability. It is about real
+return and making sure that no one is too--the risk side of it
+is balanced with the capital investment. And I think that we
+have got to have it on the table.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. And then finally, you mentioned a
+potential gas tax. The Chair did as well, and I would be remiss
+if I did not mention that a former member of the House, a
+former United States senator is now our new governor in Ohio,
+and that is Mike DeWine, and he has brought that up, that
+issue, controversial, but he has brought it up and put it on
+the table. We do not know what the legislature will do with it.
+That is in Columbus. But he has, at least it is out there and
+we will see where that goes. But sort of related to that in
+some ways, and I had mentioned this relative to the Brent
+Spence Bridge, that we do have this project of national and
+regional significance that is waiting there but it is waiting
+for the local folks to determine how they are going to pay for
+the local share. And maybe that is part of it, and I know that
+our new Governor DeWine and Governor Bevin from Kentucky are
+going to be talking about funding for this major project.
+ Do you have any thoughts on the local funding aspects of
+the Brent Spence Bridge? What you are hearing now or what you
+think about that however you would like to comment?
+ Mr. DONOVAN. Sure. And I think the big discussion has been
+about tolls for us, as you know, in the region. And I think
+whether or not that is a contribution from the state, or the
+state has to set that financing model up. While no one likes to
+pay it, I can speak only as a business owner and not as my
+elected official position because I can only speak for myself.
+I think those, again, are costs that have to be balanced out.
+And if it is reasonable, I think we are very willing to pay
+those kind of contributions that are made on the local level to
+get those projects done.
+ And I will tell you from the community in general, I have
+sensed a willingness to be willing to step up to the plate and
+play a part in that in making sure that local dollars are
+invested in those kind of projects. So I think that the
+movement, we just have to kind of, now that there has been a
+ground swell of support for saying we know we have a major
+problem. It is going to take dollars. You all do not have
+magical checkbooks to write on any project around the country,
+that we are all going to have to be reasonable about the fact
+we are going to have to step up to the table and make some
+investments. And I think there is a willingness to do that. I
+really do.
+ Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much.
+ I would like to compliment the panel for I think excellent
+testimony. I want to compliment you, Madam Chair. This was a
+very good hearing. Thank you for pulling it together. And I
+yield back.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. And now you are on the record
+supporting a tax increase.
+ Mr. CHABOT. I have to correct the record. I am not on the
+record doing that.
+ Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. I echo the Ranking Member's statement
+regarding your participation, it is very enlightening and we
+really thank you because we know that you are all very busy
+people and you are here today. It is very important for this
+committee.
+ Ensuring small firms can participate in the federal
+marketplace and win a greater share of federal work is always
+top of mind. And as we have heard today, investment in our
+crumbling infrastructure is a great opportunity to help small
+businesses grow in every corner of our country. As we discuss
+any future infrastructure investments, it is critical that we
+listen to and prioritize small business needs to ensure their
+future success.
+ I ask unanimous consent that members have 5 legislative
+days to submit statements and supporting materials for the
+record.
+ Without objection, so ordered.
+ And if there is no further business to come before the
+committee, we are adjourned. Thank you.
+ [Whereupon, at 12:39 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
+
+
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