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+ - FISCAL AND MANAGEMENT PRACTICES OF THE U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS
+
+[House Hearing, 109 Congress]
+[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
+
+
+
+ FISCAL AND MANAGEMENT PRACTICES OF
+ THE U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS
+
+=======================================================================
+
+ HEARING
+
+ BEFORE THE
+
+ SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION
+
+ OF THE
+
+ COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
+ HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
+
+ ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS
+
+ FIRST SESSION
+
+ __________
+
+ MARCH 17, 2005
+
+ __________
+
+ Serial No. 109-22
+
+ __________
+
+ Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
+
+
+ Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.house.gov/judiciary
+
+
+ ______
+
+ U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
+20-017 WASHINGTON : 2005
+_____________________________________________________________________________
+For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office
+Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512�091800
+Fax: (202) 512�092250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402�090001
+
+ COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
+
+ F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr., Wisconsin, Chairman
+HENRY J. HYDE, Illinois JOHN CONYERS, Jr., Michigan
+HOWARD COBLE, North Carolina HOWARD L. BERMAN, California
+LAMAR SMITH, Texas RICK BOUCHER, Virginia
+ELTON GALLEGLY, California JERROLD NADLER, New York
+BOB GOODLATTE, Virginia ROBERT C. SCOTT, Virginia
+STEVE CHABOT, Ohio MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina
+DANIEL E. LUNGREN, California ZOE LOFGREN, California
+WILLIAM L. JENKINS, Tennessee SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
+CHRIS CANNON, Utah MAXINE WATERS, California
+SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama MARTIN T. MEEHAN, Massachusetts
+BOB INGLIS, South Carolina WILLIAM D. DELAHUNT, Massachusetts
+JOHN N. HOSTETTLER, Indiana ROBERT WEXLER, Florida
+MARK GREEN, Wisconsin ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York
+RIC KELLER, Florida ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
+DARRELL ISSA, California LINDA T. SANCHEZ, California
+JEFF FLAKE, Arizona ADAM SMITH, Washington
+MIKE PENCE, Indiana CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
+J. RANDY FORBES, Virginia
+STEVE KING, Iowa
+TOM FEENEY, Florida
+TRENT FRANKS, Arizona
+LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas
+
+ Philip G. Kiko, Chief of Staff-General Counsel
+ Perry H. Apelbaum, Minority Chief Counsel
+ ------
+
+ Subcommittee on the Constitution
+
+ STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Chairman
+
+TRENT FRANKS, Texas JERROLD NADLER, New York
+WILLIAM L. JENKINS, Tennessee JOHN CONYERS, Jr., Michigan
+SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama ROBERT C. SCOTT, Virginia
+JOHN N. HOSTETTLER, Indiana MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina
+MARK GREEN, Wisconsin CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
+STEVE KING, Iowa
+TOM FEENEY, Florida
+
+ Paul B. Taylor, Chief Counsel
+
+ E. Stewart Jeffries, Counsel
+
+ Hilary Funk, Counsel
+
+ Mindy Barry, Full Committee Counsel
+
+ David Lachmann, Minority Professional Staff Member
+
+
+ C O N T E N T S
+
+ ----------
+
+ MARCH 17, 2005
+
+ OPENING STATEMENT
+
+ Page
+The Honorable Steve Chabot, a Representative in Congress from the
+ State of Ohio, and Chairman, Subcommittee on the Constitution.. 1
+The Honorable John Conyers, Jr., a Representative in Congress
+ from the State of Michigan..................................... 3
+
+ WITNESSES
+
+Mr. Russell G. Redenbaugh, Commissioner, U.S. Commission on Civil
+ Rights
+ Oral Testimony................................................. 6
+ Prepared Statement............................................. 8
+Mr. Michael Yaki, Commissioner, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights
+ Oral Testimony................................................. 9
+ Prepared Statement............................................. 10
+Mr. Kenneth L. Marcus, Staff Director, U.S. Commission on Civil
+ Rights
+ Oral Testimony................................................. 13
+ Prepared Statement............................................. 15
+Mr. George Harbison, Director of Human Resources, and Acting
+ Chief of Budget and Finance, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights
+ Oral Testimony................................................. 18
+ Prepared Statement............................................. 35
+
+ APPENDIX
+ Material Submitted for the Hearing Record
+
+Prepared Statement of George Harbison, Director of Human
+ Resources, and Acting Chief of Budget and Finance, U.S.
+ Commission on Civil Rights..................................... 35
+Response to post-hearing questions submitted by Chairman Steve
+ Chabot to Michael Yaki, Commissioner, U.S. Commission on Civil
+ Rights......................................................... 39
+Response to post-hearing questions submitted by Chairman Steve
+ Chabot to Kenneth L. Marcus, Staff Director, U.S. Commission on
+ Civil Rights................................................... 43
+Response to post-hearing questions submitted by Chairman Steve
+ Chabot to George Harbison, Director of Human Resources, and
+ Acting Chief of Budget and Finance, U.S. Commission on Civil
+ Rights......................................................... 68
+Letter of Resignation from Russell G. Redenbaugh, Commissioner,
+ U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, to Majority Leader Bill Frist. 73
+Letter to Chairman Steve Chabot from Abigail Thernstrom, Vice
+ Chairman, and Jennifer C. Braceras, Commissioner, U.S.
+ Commission on Civil Rights..................................... 74
+
+
+ FISCAL AND MANAGEMENT PRACTICES OF
+ THE U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS
+
+ ----------
+
+
+ THURSDAY, MARCH 17, 2005
+
+ House of Representatives,
+ Subcommittee on the Constitution,
+ Committee on the Judiciary,
+ Washington, DC.
+ The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:08 a.m., in
+Room 2143, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Steve Chabot
+(Chair of the Subcommittee) presiding.
+ Mr. Chabot. The Committee will come to order. If somebody
+wants to get the door back there. Thank you.
+ First of all, I want to wish everyone here happy St.
+Patrick's Day, one of the big occasions in our country and
+world history, and so we appreciate everybody--I even have my
+green on here today. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of folks
+the rest of the day that are so dressed.
+ We are here today for our Constitution Subcommittee
+oversight hearing on the United States Commission on Civil
+Rights. While this type of agency oversight hearing typically
+occurs every year, we have not held an oversight hearing for
+the Civil Rights Commission since 2002. While this gap can be
+attributed to a number of reasons, the period was not marked by
+a lack of oversight. In fact, during this time the Government
+Accounting Office, the GAO, has conducted four investigations
+on our behalf, and staff of the House and Senate Committees on
+the Judiciary have been actively engaged in a direct
+investigation as well. All of these investigations have
+included looking into allegations of financial and
+administrative mismanagement by Commission leadership.
+ We are here today to obtain additional information
+regarding the current status of the Commission from Commission
+representatives. I know you have a monthly Commission meeting
+tomorrow and recognize that your time is precious. So we thank
+you very much for being here today.
+ The Civil Rights Act of 1957 established the United States
+Commission on Civil Rights as a nonpartisan fact-finding
+agency. The Commission is composed of eight members: four
+Commissioners are appointed by the President, two by the
+Speaker of the House, and two by the President pro tem of the
+Senate. Even though the Commission is an independent agency,
+its structure was designed to ensure that both Congress and the
+executive branch are stakeholders and have continued input into
+the Commission. The Commission has no enforcement power. The
+Commission fulfills its statutory mission by, first,
+investigating discrimination claims on the basis of color,
+race, religion, sex, age, disability, or national origin;
+second, collecting and studying information; third, appraising
+laws and policies of the Federal Government; fourth, serving as
+a national clearinghouse for information; and, fifth, preparing
+public service announcements and advertising campaigns. As an
+agent both of Congress and the executive branch, the Commission
+must submit reports of its findings to Congress and the
+President.
+ Since the Commission's inception in 1957, Congress has
+extended the life of the Commission nine times. The
+Commission's latest authorization expired on September 30,
+1996. Despite the lack of authority, Congress continues to
+appropriate the Commission roughly $9 million each year.
+ I have been personally involved in oversight of the
+Commission over the last several years in my capacity as
+Chairman of this Committee. This is my third term as such. I've
+witnessed the decline in the public's confidence in the
+Commission's work product under the previous Chair's direction.
+Nevertheless, I have high expectations for this Commission and
+for the important work of protecting civil rights. I am
+concerned, however, with reports that reforms, which were
+promised, have not yet been undertaken since new leadership has
+taken charge of the Commission.
+ I believe that protecting civil rights is vital to
+protecting all of the rights afforded by the Constitution and
+codified in the Civil Rights Act. Thus, civil rights must
+continue to play a prominent role in American society.
+ In my position as Chairman of the Subcommittee, I'm
+committed to working to ensure that the Civil Rights Commission
+does the best work possible, not just for Congress and the
+President but for the American public.
+ I look back at how many times I and my Republican and
+Democratic predecessors were assured that the Commission was
+going to implement reforms that would allow the agency to
+function in a credible and efficient manner. I'm to date not at
+all satisfied with the Commission's reform efforts. Much needs
+to be done.
+ As we sit here today, changes have yet to be made. Let me
+be clear: My concern is not just with the financial and
+management practices that have been the subject of many
+investigations. I am also concerned deeply about the project
+process used by the Commission results in substantive material
+that does not stand up to academic scrutiny. This means that
+reports are being issued under the seal of the Federal
+Government that have not been tested for accuracy of bias. I
+believe that these practices, along with the financial and
+management changes, must be made so that the credibility of the
+Commission can be restored.
+ The mismanagement that has plagued the Commission for years
+undermines public confidence in the Commission's work. Unless
+the Commission institutes reforms to its operating practices,
+including to the methods that it uses to fulfill its statutory
+mission, the Commission will not be able to be a serious fact-
+finding agency that informs the public about the state of civil
+rights in America. In view of these concerns, I know that all
+Members look forward to hearing from our witnesses here this
+morning, and there will be a time for the issuing of subpoenas
+a bit later when we have a reporting and--a working and
+reporting quorum, and then there is--on an unrelated matter, on
+CIANA, there will be another hearing--actually, not a hearing
+but a markup later on in this by the same Committee.
+ Those are my remarks. Mr. Nadler is not yet here, so I
+don't know if Mr. Conyers or Mr. Watt would like to make an
+opening statement. Mr. Conyers?
+ Mr. Conyers. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning----
+ Mr. Chabot. Good morning.
+ Mr. Conyers. --to all of our Committee Members and
+witnesses. I'd like to welcome you here and just suggest some
+things that we need to try to put in perspective.
+ First of all, we have a number of Commissioners that at
+least I haven't heard from or talked with, and what it suggests
+to me, Chairman Chabot, is that we may need another hearing
+just to get the lay of the new Commissioners and what their
+points of view are and who they are, really. We have missing--
+or we haven't met with yet Commissioners Kirsanow, McReynolds,
+Taylor, and Meeks, and I think that that would be important for
+all of us to begin to get acquainted.
+ Now, how do we get the Civil Rights Commission on its feet
+again? Well, they only get $9 million, so this is not one of
+the world's greatest challenges that the Congress faces. It
+would seem to me that the unfreezing of the Commission budget
+would be incredibly important, and probably the sooner the
+better.
+ We are going to have a meeting on the issuance of
+subpoenas, and, of course, the interesting thing is, is it to
+end the cycle of blame or is it going to continue the cycle of
+blame? I'd like all of you distinguished people here today to
+try to make sure I understand what it is--where can we cut it
+off at from the past and get moving for the present.
+ In a more perfect world, I would probably like to see an
+independent manager that would relieve the Commissioners of the
+responsibility of trying to micromanage and deal with these
+large issues as well.
+ The other thing we have to develop is an agenda, Mr.
+Chairman, or the discussion around an agenda, and for that we
+probably would need Mr. McReynolds, and we'd like to get ideas
+from everybody as to what they see as the goal and role of the
+U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.
+ Now, let's assume that in the august chambers of the
+Judiciary Committee we could--we'd come to this wonderful new
+agreement that I'm trying to outline here. Without State
+advisory commissions being re-energized, it's going to be very
+hard to get to the base of your work. So it seems to me that
+that could be one of the very important things that maybe the
+independent manager, if there were one, or the Commission
+itself could quickly take care of.
+ So that's how I view us starting off, Mr. Chairman, and I
+hope that we'll be able to work cooperatively toward that goal.
+ Mr. Keenan Keller suggests that I ask for permission,
+unanimous consent so that if there are additional questions
+that we want to send the Commissioners, we'd be able to do
+that.
+ Mr. Chabot. Without objection, so ordered.
+ Mr. Conyers. Thank you very much.
+ Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much, and I share many of the
+things which you stated in your opening statement, and I would
+hope that to the extent possible, although we don't do a lot of
+things in this august body in a bipartisan manner, with respect
+to civil rights it ought to be done in a bipartisan manner. And
+I look forward to working both with Mr. Nadler and yourself and
+any other Members that would like to do that.
+ Mr. Conyers. Thanks so much.
+ Mr. Chabot. We thank you as well.
+ Are there any other Members that would like to make opening
+statements? If not, we'll proceed with the introduction of the
+witnesses.
+ Our first witness here this morning will be Commissioner
+Russell Redenbaugh, and on a personal note, I'd like to
+recognize Commissioner Redenbaugh for his contributions to the
+Commission over the last 15 years. We were, I think, all
+disappointed to learn of his resignation and wish him the best
+in his future endeavors.
+ Mr. Redenbaugh is a financial and economic strategist,
+and--excuse me, economic and business adviser in building
+wealth and power, executive, author, teacher, and Commissioner
+on the U.S. Civil Rights Commission. He is the managing
+director of Kairos, Inc., in Philadelphia, PA, which both
+invests in and advises companies that are undergoing
+fundamental changes, all of which are producing innovations in
+either or both their products and business models. He has been
+a Commissioner, as I mentioned, of the U.S. Commission on Civil
+Rights for 15 years since being appointed on February 8, 1990.
+Commissioner Redenbaugh has served as an instructor at the
+University of Pennsylvania School of Arts and Sciences where he
+designed and taught a graduate course entitled ``Work Process
+Redesign Theory and New Practices in the Dynamics of
+Organization Program.'' He is currently a director of the
+Joseki Group in Menlo Park, CA, Associated Services for the
+Blind in Philadelphia, PA, and the Lexington Institute in
+Washington, D.C. He is a recipient of the Louis Braille Award
+given by Associated Services for the Blind in Philadelphia, PA.
+In his spare time, Commissioner Redenbaugh became the 1997
+National Jujitsu Federation Champion, the 2003 and 2004 World
+Jujitsu Federation World Champion, and participated in running
+the torch across America for the U.S. Olympic Committee in
+advance of the 2002 Winter Olympics. Finally, Commissioner
+Redenbaugh is widely published on topics ranging from
+management reforms to financial strategy to civil rights. He is
+a chartered financial analyst and a chartered investment
+counselor and received his MBA from the Wharton School at the
+University of Pennsylvania and his B.S. from the University of
+Utah. And we thank you and appreciate your being here this
+morning, Mr. Redenbaugh.
+ The second witness will be Commissioner Michael Yaki.
+Commissioner Yaki was appointed to the U.S. Commission on Civil
+Rights in February 2005. He is a partner in the San Francisco
+law firm of Jeffer, Mangels, Butler & Marmo, and prior to
+joining his present firm was a partner in another law firm.
+Since 1999, he has been a freelance writer, authoring
+editorials for the San Francisco Chronicle on sports, politics,
+and international relations. He has contributed to The New York
+Times Opinion/Editorial section and has been a commentator on
+several radio stations. Commissioner Yaki was a member of the
+San Francisco Board of Supervisors from 1996 to 2001. He was
+the convener and Chair of the first citywide Summit on Children
+and Youth in 1996. He also was the Chair of San Francisco
+Transportation Authority, the director of the Golden Gate
+Bridge and Highway District, of the California State
+Association of Counties, of the Bay Area Air Quality Management
+District, and of the San Francisco Employee Retirement System.
+He has been a lecturer of political science and urban studies
+at San Francisco State University. He also was the district
+director for Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi. Commissioner Yaki
+received a B.A. from the University of California, Berkeley, a
+J.D. from Yale Law School, and was a law clerk to the Honorable
+Harry Low in the California Court of Appeals.
+ In his spare time, Commissioner Yaki is a director of the
+San Francisco Zoological Society and was the founder of the
+Presidio Day Camp for Underprivileged Children, was an
+elementary school volunteer reader, was the host and a
+fundraiser for the Tiger Woods Community Foundation Golf
+Clinic, and was the fundraising campaign Chair for the Say Yes
+Summer Youth Jobs Program. He is the recipient of the San
+Francisco Bay Area YMCA Building Strong Kids Award, a two-time
+recipient of the FDR Club for Persons with Disabilities
+Legislator of the Year Award, and the Organization of Chinese
+Americans Community Service Award. And we welcome you here this
+morning, Mr. Yaki.
+ Our third witness is the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights
+Staff Director, Kenneth Marcus. Mr. Marcus was appointed to
+this position by President George W. Bush with the concurrence
+of the Commission on December 6th, so he's actually only been
+in this position for several months now. As Staff Director, he
+serves as the agency's chief executive officer, responsible for
+providing leadership and direction to the agency staff. In this
+position, Mr. Marcus continues his long-time work of combating
+discrimination and working on behalf of those who have been
+denied basic constitutional and civil rights. Mr. Marcus is an
+experienced civil rights attorney, litigator, and leader.
+ Before assuming his current duties, Mr. Marcus was
+delegated the authority of Assistant Secretary of Education for
+Civil Rights and served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of
+Education for Enforcement. As head of the Education
+Department's Office for Civil Rights, Mr. Marcus was the
+principal civil rights adviser to the U.S. Secretary of
+Education and oversaw the resolution of approximately 5,000
+civil rights cases per year through the office's 12 enforcement
+offices.
+ While in this position, he developed and implemented
+proactive enforcement initiatives and issued policy guidance in
+several areas. Mr. Marcus also served at the time as a
+Commissioner on the U.S. Commission on Brown v. Board of
+Education.
+ Prior to joining the Department of Education, Mr. Marcus
+served in the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development
+as the General Deputy Assistant Secretary for Fair Housing and
+Equal Opportunity. As head of HUD's Office of Fair Housing and
+Equal Opportunity, Mr. Marcus was the principal civil rights
+adviser to the U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
+and oversaw the work of the office's 54 offices.
+ As HUD's civil rights chief, Mr. Marcus developed
+initiatives and oversaw HUD's Office of Departmental Equal
+Employment Opportunity in its section 3 program office. Before
+entering public service, Mr. Marcus served as a litigation
+partner in two law firms, where he successfully represented
+individuals who had been denied constitutional and civil
+rights. Mr. Marcus is a graduate of Williams College and the
+University of California at Berkeley School of Law. We welcome
+you here this morning, Mr. Marcus.
+ And our final witness here is George Harbison. Mr. Harbison
+is the Acting Director of Budget and Finance and is the
+Director of Human Resources for the Civil Rights Commission.
+Prior to assuming these positions, he was the Director of
+Budget and Finance for the Commission for approximately the
+past 14 years, and we welcome you here, Mr. Harbison.
+ It's the practice of this Committee to swear in all
+witnesses appearing before it, so if you would all please stand
+and raise your right hand.
+ [Witnesses sworn.]
+ Mr. Chabot. All witnesses have answered in the affirmative,
+and you can all be seated.
+ We appreciate, as we said, your presence here this morning.
+I know that you have a meeting tomorrow, so we know it is
+perhaps inconvenient to do two things of such importance in
+such close proximity, so we do appreciate your presence. And as
+I know that you're aware, we have a 5-minute rule here where we
+would ask each witness to testify for up to 5 minutes. We will
+give you a little leeway beyond that if you need to wrap up. We
+have a lighting system. It will be green for 4 minutes, turn
+yellow when you have 1 minute, and then red when your 5 minutes
+is complete, and we'd ask that you please wrap up as close to
+that time as possible.
+ And, Mr. Redenbaugh, you would be our first witness here
+this morning, so you are recognized for 5 minutes.
+
+ TESTIMONY OF RUSSELL G. REDENBAUGH, COMMISSIONER, U.S.
+ COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS
+
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Well, thank you, Chairman Chabot, and
+Subcommittee Members and staff. Thank you for holding this
+hearing and for inviting me here.
+ As you all know, I am resigning from the Commission. What I
+would like to make clear is I'm resigning not because I object
+to the particular projects or programs that have been put
+forward, but because I object to us not making reform our
+highest and most urgent priority.
+ In my private life, I advise companies on how to manage
+themselves. I've managed a half a dozen companies. And I look
+at organizations through the lens of purpose, processes, and
+people--the purpose being, you know, that mighty theme or that
+mighty objective that unifies us. The processes define how
+we're going to work together to accomplish that purpose. It
+defines the accountabilities, who will do what by when. And the
+people, and the people must work through those processes and
+share that purpose. And an organization that gets all three of
+those right can do truly remarkable things.
+ At the Commission we don't have a clear purpose. We have
+agendas. As you all know, we don't have processes. We don't
+have a process for financial accountability. We don't have a
+process for accountability with respect to our projects. And
+given that we don't have the purpose or processes, the people
+can't possibly work together as a team. And, you know, we have
+never been a team.
+ But there's something about the design of the organization
+and of the organization that's even more of a fatal flaw than
+any of that, and that is, this agency has defined itself as a
+special independent agency, independent of the executive
+branch, independent of the Congress, certainly independent of
+its oversight Committee, independent from GAO recommendations,
+from OMB, and independent from GPRA, in fact, even independent
+from some of the civil rights laws that we support. You can see
+this by examining some of our EEOC cases.
+ And this independence, the way we've interpreted it, means
+that we can never reform ourselves because we don't have
+clients or customers.
+ Now, I think tomorrow, in tomorrow's meeting, there will be
+a new enthusiasm for reform, and I suspect there will be a
+great many reform measures adopted, probably unanimously. But I
+caution that that which is adopted tomorrow can be ignored next
+month or unadopted next year.
+ So if you're inclined to give this Commission yet another
+chance, my recommendation would be that you collateralize those
+promises of reform with changes in the statute that give this
+Commission the accountability that all organizations need to
+have.
+ My own recommendation, though, is that you close this
+Commission and start another one. For far too long, Congress
+has felt that having a bad Civil Rights Commission was better
+than having no Civil Rights Commission. And I commend this
+Subcommittee for not accepting such a low standard. The country
+does deserve far better.
+ And I'd take out a blank sheet of paper, and I'd ask you to
+do this as Congressman Conyers suggested, in a nonpartisan way,
+and ask the question: What is the purpose of the Civil Rights
+Commission today? Because when this Commission was originally
+constituents in the 1950's, its purpose was a mighty one. It
+was to be the conscience of America, and America needed a
+conscience. And through the work of many people and this
+Commission in part, that conscience manifest and produced the
+civil rights legislation that we have today.
+ So the situations are very different. We still have
+discrimination and too much of it. But those of us who are
+discriminated against have many powerful remedies. We don't
+need, as one of those remedies, the weak, inconsistent, anemic,
+conflicted voice of this Commission. We deserve better. The
+country deserves better.
+ And so to misquote someone who's a far better communicator
+than I am, my advice to you would be to ``End it, don't mend
+it.''
+ I'll be happy to answer any of your questions, and I'd like
+to submit additional written testimony for the record, if I
+may.
+ Mr. Chabot. Without objection, it will be so submitted.
+ [The prepared statement of Mr. Redenbaugh follows:]
+ Prepared Statement of Russell G. Redenbaugh
+ Mr. Chairman, members of the Subcommittee, thank you for holding
+this hearing and for inviting me to testify today. As you know, I have
+resigned from the commission. I did this because I became convinced
+that the problem with this commission is structural and unfixable. I
+used to believe that the problem was political or based on
+personalities, but it is neither of those.
+ Let me say a little bit about my background, I understand
+organizations. I've studied them for 35 years. I've written widely on
+them. I've managed several companies and have consulted many on
+organizational design. I know what it takes to produce remarkable
+results. Remarkable results are produced by patters of behavior, and
+it's the organization's structure and processes that determine those
+patterns of behavior. I know if I want to change the results in a
+company, I need to change the structure.
+ In the organizational design business we use the short hand of the
+3 p's: purpose, process, people. To be a high performance organization
+you must get all 3 right. From time to time every organization needs to
+be reformed, that means a new structure and new processes. In business
+strong organizations are built by having many satisfied customers and
+in business the incentive to reform comes from defecting customers.
+ Now let's talk about the civil rights commission. We don't have a
+clear purpose, we don't have clear processes, we don't have the minimal
+financial controls, and our structure is fatally flawed. Our structure
+allows us to cloak ourselves with the myth of our independence. It's
+lent some commissioners to believe that we don't have customers. Well
+if we don't have customers then we don't have any consequences for not
+reforming or any incentive to make those necessary changes.
+ The commission has no clear purpose. Purpose, the first of the 3
+p's, is the glue that unifies and binds an organization together. An
+organization's purpose is what we are willing to work hard for in order
+to produce remarkable results. This commission doesn't have a clear
+purpose. The conditions that existed in this country when the
+commission was put in place have changed dramatically. This structure
+may have been the right structure for dealing with those conditions,
+which were state supported institutional racism, but the structure does
+not work for what is needed to combat discrimination and disparities
+today. Congress tweaked the structure in 1983 but adopted another
+inappropriate model. We still have much discrimination, but the
+government now runs a multibillion-dollar apparatus to protect our
+rights. Think of all the bulwarks against discrimination in the major
+federal and state agencies and all the volumes of antidiscrimination
+laws on the books. People who are discriminated against deserve these
+remedies. They don't deserve the inarticulate, confused, and conflicted
+voice of the civil rights commission.
+ The commission's processes are fatally flawed and cannot be
+reformed. I do not believe that this commission will ever reform
+itself. The changes that need to be made are structural. The principle
+structural problem is the claim by some commissioners' that
+``independence'' means that we don't have customers. Another structural
+problem is that commissioners are appointed by the executive branch and
+the congress, which leaves the political accountability splintered. The
+commission is composed of an even number of commissioners; this makes
+for gridlock. Another problem is that commissioners are part-time and
+staff is full-time. Given this structure there need to be clear
+processes that prevent a staff director from hijacking the
+commissioners' agenda. These processes do not exist at the civil rights
+commission.
+ ``End it, don't mend it'' I could say much more. The mismanagement,
+the corruption, the arrogance, the disregard of the statute, of GPRA,
+of OMB, and of GAO recommendations is well documented. This is an
+agency that considers itself above the law and above civil rights laws,
+just look at our EEOC record. I believed for many years that these were
+problems of politics and personalities, but as I said before I am
+completely convinced that this is a problem of structure and process.
+That we didn't move immediately to correct these institutional problems
+convinces me that we never will. I can no longer associate myself with
+an organization that is both a national and a personal embarrassment.
+To misquote a far better communicator than myself, ``End it don't mend
+it''
+
+ Mr. Chabot. We appreciate your testimony this morning.
+ Commissioner Yaki, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
+
+ TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL YAKI, COMMISSIONER,
+ U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS
+
+ Mr. Yaki. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I want to
+thank the Chair and the Ranking Member for inviting me to
+testify today. As you know, I'm the newest member of the
+Commission, and I am actually deeply honored to have joined the
+Commission on Civil Rights last month.
+ As a first matter of business, I want to thank Commissioner
+Redenbaugh for his 15 years of service. Although I disagree
+with his conclusion today, no one can deny that the 15 years of
+service to the Commission and to this country is beyond
+reproach, and I just want to thank him for all the inspiration
+that he has provided to people in this country.
+ But I disagree with his conclusions because during the past
+half-century, the Civil Rights Commission has taken its
+independent fact-finding and recommendation powers seriously
+and substantively. Its 1961 report was the basis for the
+landmark 1964 Civil Rights Act. Its hearings on
+disenfranchisement of African Americans in the South led to the
+Voting Rights Act of 1965. And over time, the Commission has
+adapted to the changing face of bias and discrimination in
+America. Its 1978 Commission report on domestic violence put
+that issue on the national agenda for the first time, and its
+1983 Commission report on the challenges that Americans with
+disabilities faced led to the adoption of the Americans with
+Disabilities Act.
+ Has it been perfect in how and why it addresses certain
+issues? Absolutely not. But has it provoked debate, discussion,
+and made policymakers stand up and take notice? Absolutely yes.
+And that is why I am here today. I'm here to speak on my own
+behalf as a new Commissioner, to say that while the business of
+this Committee with respect to ensuring fiscal responsibility
+and management is important, it is equally important that the
+business of the Commission be allowed to continue.
+ I am unable because I am new to substantiate or deny the
+charges of financial mismanagement at the Commission. I come
+basically with a clean slate. But I can tell you as a former
+local legislator who bore responsibility for a $4 billion
+budget with 25,000 employees, this type of hearing is not
+unfamiliar to me. It is a very serious responsibility that we
+undertake to ensure that taxpayer funds are not squandered
+needlessly, especially during tough budgetary times.
+ I have read the GAO reports, and I can assure you that as a
+former congressional aide and a former local legislator that no
+one takes the GAO lightly. But when faced with these
+allegations at the local level, it is important to take swift
+and corrective action, which this Committee is working to do.
+It is important to ascertain whether it is isolated or
+systemic. It is important to put in appropriate controls and to
+assure the public that we responded on their behalf.
+ But equally important is to understand that the department,
+agency, or bureau in question still has a public mission to
+perform. And, therefore, it is important to ensure that any
+remedial or corrective action be carefully and narrowly
+tailored to ensure that it does not hinder the public function
+of that particular agency.
+ I am not here to understate the GAO or the hearings and
+intent of this Committee. But I think it's important to put in
+relative scale that it is going to be far easier to treat the
+problems of a $9 million Commission than a multi-billion-dollar
+department. Mr. Marcus to my left has outlined a response, and
+I will be in support of these reasonable reforms that will put
+the Commission back on track fiscally and managerial. But
+consider that just last year the GAO reported that between 1997
+and 2003, the Defense Department lost more than $100 million in
+taxpayer money on unused airplane tickets. Now, let me repeat
+that. That's $100 million in airplane fares that they could
+have cashed in, and that is 10 times more than the entire
+budget of the Commission on Civil Rights.
+ But just as it would not make any sense to stop the DOD
+from protecting our homeland simply because they made financial
+mistakes, albeit on a possibly mind-boggling scale to a
+taxpayer, it does not make any sense to impose actions or
+controls on the Commission that hampers its investigative and
+fact-finding functions. It is, therefore, my plea to this
+Committee that you recognize that not only must the mission of
+this Commission go on, but also recognize that the Commission
+actually needs additional resources, guarded by appropriate and
+adequate fiscal controls to continue its mission.
+ In fact, it is astonishing that the Commission and staff
+have been able to do what they have done over the past few
+years, given its very low staffing and fiscal constraints.
+ As an independent agency, the Commission can venture where
+Department Secretaries and administrative heads fear to tread.
+It can question the efficacy of existing Government programs,
+policies, and enforcement. The targets of discrimination, the
+tools used to discriminate have changed and evolved. But the
+fact that discrimination remains, as Commissioner Redenbaugh
+has said, cannot be seriously disputed. And thus the need for
+the Commission remains.
+ As a watchdog, fact-finder, and policy conscience, there's
+much that the Commission can and will do in the future to help
+Congress and the executive branch and the general public to
+assure that there is true equal protection under the laws. And
+while I commend this Committee in protecting the taxpayer
+dollar and working to reform this Commission, this Commission
+also has its continuing duty to protect civil rights of our
+country. These goals are not mutually exclusive, and with
+mutual cooperation and assistance, we can achieve both these
+goals. And the Commission will continue, as President
+Eisenhower's Attorney General said in 1957, to continue to
+``chart a course of progress to guide us in the years ahead.''
+ Thank you for your time and consideration of my views, and
+I'm available for your questions.
+ [The prepared statement of Mr. Yaki follows:]
+
+ Prepared Statement of Michael Yaki
+
+ I want to thank the Chair and the Ranking Member for inviting me to
+testify today. As a preliminary matter, I am deeply honored to have
+joined the Commission on Civil Rights last month. The responsibility
+first placed upon the Commission by President Eisenhower nearly fifty
+years ago is a mantle I will wear with pride. Briefly, my background
+includes having recently been a local elected legislator for the City
+and County of San Francisco for 5 years, overseeing with my colleagues
+an annual budget of over $4 billion with nearly 25,000 employees. I
+have also served as a Congressional Staff Director for the Minority
+Leader and been a practicing securities attorney after completion of my
+legal education at the Yale Law School and clerkship with California
+Court of Appeal Judge Harry Low in California. I am now practicing as a
+partner at a California-based business law firm.
+ The United States Commission on Civil Rights has been called the
+``watchdog'' of civil rights for this country. Created in the 1957
+Civil Rights Act--the first meaningful, if tentative step this country
+took towards ending the Jim Crow era--it was envisioned by President
+Eisenhower as a bipartisan, fact-finding panel charged with
+investigating and making recommendations to the Executive and
+Legislative branches on how to end discrimination in this country.
+ Over the past half-century, the Civil Rights Commission has taken
+its fact-finding and recommendation powers seriously and substantively.
+Its 1961 Report was considered by the Congress and the Supreme Court as
+the intellectual and factual grounding for the provisions of the
+landmark 1964 Civil Rights Act. Its hearings on the blatant, deliberate
+disenfranchisement of African Americans in southern precincts and
+parishes formed the basis of the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
+ Over time, the Commission has helped America recognize the changing
+face of bias and discrimination. In 1978 a Commission Report
+challenging law enforcement agencies to recognize domestic violence as
+a crime put it on the national agenda, and by the late 1980's Congress
+mandated the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration to focus on the
+``role of the criminal justice system in preventing and controlling
+violence and abusive behavior in the home. And the Congress relied on a
+1983 Civil Rights Commission report on the challenges disabled persons
+faced in their daily lives in enacting the Americans with Disabilities
+Act.
+ In the 90's and through the dawn of this new century, the
+Commission has begun tackling many other challenges, including studying
+civil rights matters facing Native Americans and Native Hawaiians and
+issuing reports to Congress detailing policy and legislative failures
+and loopholes that continue to deny equal protection under the law to
+these most ancient Americans. Has it been perfect in how and why it
+addresses certain issues? Absolutely not. Has it provoked debate,
+discussion, and made policymakers stand up and notice? Absolutely yes.
+ Herbert Brownell, President Eisenhower's Attorney General, summed
+up the scope of the Commission best when he testified before this very
+Subcommittee 48 years ago this February in stating that:
+
+ ``Above and beyond the need for improving the legal remedies
+ for dealing with specific civil rights violations is the need
+ for greater knowledge and understanding of all of the complex
+ problems involved. . . . [T]here is no agency anywhere in the
+ executive branch of the federal government with authority to
+ investigate general allegations of civil rights. . . . [T]he
+ Commission proposed by the President would present the means of
+ securing this vitally needed information.''
+
+ The Jim Crow era may have ended, but anyone who believes that we
+have become a nation completely without malice towards people of color,
+towards new immigrants, towards those who believe or worship
+differently is, with all due respect, deliberately hiding their head in
+the proverbial sand. All we need to do is look at the incredible jump
+in hate crimes towards Arabs and Muslim Americans since 9/11; but we do
+not need to confine ourselves to the most obvious victims to know what
+is true. Neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism still exists; there remain school
+districts where inequalities remain divided by race; and minority- and
+women-owned businesses still encounter substantial hurdles to economic
+parity left over from decades of exclusion.
+ And that is why I am here today. I am here to speak on my own
+behalf, as a Commissioner, to say that while the business of this
+Committee with respect to ensuring fiscal responsibility is important,
+it is equally important that the business of the Commission be allowed
+to continue.
+ I am unable to substantiate or deny the charges of financial
+mismanagement at the Commission. I come, if you may, with a clean
+slate. As a former local legislator in who bore responsibility for a $4
+billion dollar city and county budget, this type of hearing is not
+unfamiliar territory. It is a deep and very serious responsibility to
+ensure that taxpayer funds are not squandered needlessly at any time,
+including and especially in pressing budgetary times.
+ I have read the GAO reports and I can assure you that as a former
+congressional staffer and a former local legislator that I do not take
+any GAO report lightly.
+ I can communicate to you my impression that the present Commission
+views its duty to ensure fiscal responsibility very seriously. In my
+very first meetings after being told of my appointment, both the
+Chairman and the Staff Director were very frank about their intent to
+hold the agency accountable in the ways detailed in the GAO reports. In
+my conversations with my new colleagues, the manner of fiscal
+accountability is very important.
+ However, it is equally important to separate the past from the
+present and the future. Even if there was mismanagement--which I cannot
+deny nor confirm--the fact is, that these allegations are associated
+with a regime that no longer exists at the Commission. And, in the
+interests of full disclosure, I should also state that I am an admirer
+of Ms. Berry's lifelong commitment to civil rights and to minority
+communities in this country.
+ But I understand the scope of this hearing. When I was faced at the
+local level with allegations of mismanagement of government resources,
+it was important to take swift corrective action. It was important to
+ascertain whether it was an isolated, or systemic problem. It was
+important to put in appropriate controls to ensure that it did not
+happen again. It was important to assure the public that we had
+responded on their behalf.
+ But equally important was to understand that the department,
+agency, or bureau still had a mission to perform. Missions that were
+important to members of the public. And, therefore, it was important to
+ensure that any remedial or corrective action be carefully and narrowly
+tailored to ensure that it did not hinder the public function that all
+government agencies perform.
+ It is easy to punish an entire agency, especially one as small as
+the Commission. In San Francisco, as with many cities and counties of
+size in this country, the Commission's $9 million budget would be
+dwarfed by health, public safety, and other departments. In comparison
+to the trillion dollar federal budget, $9 million may be barely
+noticed.
+ Understanding the scale of the problem--and the scale of the
+solution--is paramount in this case. The cure cannot kill the patient.
+ To be perfectly honest, we may go on about lack of controls. We may
+pontificate about waste of taxpayer assets. But can we honestly say
+that our concern about misspending in a $9 million dollar agency should
+outstrip concern for waste that is in the tens, or hundreds of
+millions? It is not to belittle the findings of the GAO or the hearings
+of this Committee. It is to put in relative scale, however, that it is
+far easier to treat the problems of a $9 million dollar Commission than
+a multi-billion dollar Department.
+ Just last year the GAO reported that between 1997 and 2003 the
+Defense Department lost more than $100 million dollars in unused
+airplane tickets. Let me repeat that. The DoD forgot to cash in more
+than $100 million dollars in plane fares. For the average taxpayer--the
+person in whose shoes I stood as a legislator and you stand as Members
+of this esteemed House--$100 million dollars is waste on a massive
+scale.
+ But the ultimate mission, the purpose of the organization must go
+on. Just as it would not make any sense to stop the Department of
+Defense from protecting our homeland, or liberating a foreign country
+from the yoke of tyranny, simply because they made financial mistakes--
+in the case of airline tickets, on a truly grand and mind-boggling
+scale--it does not make any sense to impose actions or controls on the
+Civil Rights Commission that hampers its investigative and fact-finding
+functions.
+ It is therefore my heartfelt plea to this Committee that you
+recognize that not only must the mission of the Commission go on, but
+also recognize that the Commission needs additional resources--guarded
+by appropriate and adequate fiscal controls--to continue its mission.
+ The fact is that as a Commission, we are starved for resources. Let
+me elaborate, based again only upon my short tenure with the
+Commission.
+ Our State Advisory Committees are languishing from neglect, neglect
+caused by a paucity of funding. The State Advisory Committees are one
+of the most important means of obtaining information and insight on
+civil rights issues on the ground. With the number of issues
+confronting our limited time and agendas, the SACs have produced and
+will continue to produce some of the most important civil rights
+reports for this country. Yet we have barely staffing for one or two
+professional staff responsible for multi-state jurisdictions totaling
+tens of millions in population. The SAC's can't meet because we can't
+afford to reimburse them for plane, train, and car fares--the least we
+could contribute given the volunteer time and commitment of SAC
+members. When we consider, as Justice Brandeis did, that the states are
+the ``laboratories of democracy,'' the fact that the Commission, and,
+therefore, the Executive and Legislative branches of the federal
+government are deprived of their information, experience, and input due
+to lack of funding is a loss on a truly national scale. Can we truly
+say that this programmatic and mission loss is the price we must pay
+for any past financial transgressions?
+ I cannot speak for the entire Commission, but I can also say that
+it is already apparent to me that the agenda of the Commission itself
+has been affected by the constant demand for documents, the need for
+retasking already overworked employees. The fact is that attention must
+be paid to answering complaints, preparing reports, and crafting policy
+recommendations. But the reality is that critical resources must be
+diverted just to keep the bare functionality of the Commission. It is
+somewhat astonishing that the Commission and its staff have been able
+to accomplish producing reports and conducting hearings given its
+recent staffing and fiscal constraints.
+ As an independent agency, the Commission can venture where
+Department Secretaries and Administrative heads fear to tread--it can
+question the efficacy of existing government programs and policies. The
+targets of discrimination, the tools used to discriminate may have
+changed or evolved. But the fact that discrimination remains cannot be
+seriously disputed. And thus the need for the Commission remains.
+ I am hoping the Commission will investigate the collateral damage
+to civil rights as a result of the Patriot Act, which is up for
+reauthorization this year. The Voting Rights Act comes up for
+reauthorization in 2007, and rather than have talking heads trade
+insults on its continued vitality, we need to take a fact-based look at
+disenfranchisement issues in all communities of our country. And there
+are many issues relating to educational and economic equality for
+minorities, women and the disabled, and other communities that I
+believe still need to be addressed.
+ There are issues that some Commissioners will agree with, and
+others in which we will disagree. Reasonable people can come to
+different conclusions from the same set of facts and circumstances, but
+it requires resources to access those facts and circumstances.
+ I close again with the words of Herbert Brownell. In urging the
+Senate to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1957, and in specific, to pass
+Title I creating the Civil Rights Commission, he stated in a letter to
+the Senate:
+
+ ``[W]e must find out all of the facts--the extent, the methods,
+ the result. . . . Civil rights are of primary concern to all
+ our people. To this end, the Commission's membership must be
+ truly bipartisan. . . . The Commission will have authority to
+ hold public hearing. Knowledge and understanding of every
+ element of the problem will give greater clarity and
+ perspective to one of the most difficult problems facing our
+ country. . . . Investigation and hearings will bring into
+ sharper focus the areas of responsibility of the federal
+ government and of the states under our constitutional system.
+ Through greater public understanding, therefore, the Commission
+ may chart a course of progress to guide us in the years
+ ahead.''
+
+ As watchdog, fact-finder, and policy conscience, there is much that
+the Commission can and will do in the future to help Congress, the
+Executive Branch and the general public ensure that there is true equal
+protection under the laws of our country for all Americans. While I
+commend the zeal of this Committee in protecting Americans' tax
+dollars, this Commission also has a duty to protect the civil rights of
+our country. These goals are not mutually exclusive and with mutual
+cooperation and assistance, we can achieve both these goals. And the
+Commission will continue to chart a course of progress to guide us in
+the years ahead.
+ Thank you for your time and consideration of my views. I am
+available for your questions.
+
+ Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much, Commissioner Yaki. We
+appreciate your testimony.
+ Mr. Marcus, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
+
+ TESTIMONY OF KENNETH L. MARCUS, STAFF DIRECTOR,
+ U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS
+
+ Mr. Marcus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Minority
+Member. I am also delighted to have an opportunity to address
+you today, and I am also saddened that this will be one of my
+last opportunities to work with Commissioner Redenbaugh, whose
+departure I am sad to acknowledge. On the other hand, we are
+certainly delighted to have Commissioner Yaki now on board to
+join us.
+ Many have found fault with the Commission's management and
+finances, and I certainly join in acknowledging that there are
+many, many respects in which the Commission requires very
+substantial systematic reform. I would like to emphasize,
+though, by way of preface that this agency has over a period of
+nearly 50 years had extraordinary accomplishments in bringing
+public attention to matters which otherwise in many instances
+would not have received attention. In all of the 50 States and
+at a national level, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights has
+countless times over the decades reminded us of our basic
+obligations under the Constitution and laws of the United
+States.
+ At the same time, the present is a very difficult time for
+the Commission on Civil Rights. Those of us who are new to the
+Commission have inherited an agency in crisis with profound
+management and financial challenges as well as challenges
+regarding project planning that we must face in short order.
+Many of the challenges have been well documented over a period
+of years by the Government Accountability Office in the reports
+to which the Chairman made reference earlier this morning.
+These challenges include weak internal financial and project
+planning controls as well as an unsustainable budgetary
+situation.
+ At the same time, we have a committed staff which is
+working very hard under difficult circumstances based on their
+commitment to civil rights and their belief that it is
+important that they work as hard as they can, even under these
+uncertainties, to try and protect those who would otherwise
+face discrimination, hatred, and injustice.
+ The GAO reports which have been referenced have described a
+lack of good project management and transparency in contracting
+procedures and elsewhere, have referred to weaknesses in the
+way in which resources have been used, have described a lack of
+strategic planning, and have in general painted a portrait of
+an agency that has had little financial control, weak
+management, and little accountability.
+ Those reports go to a period of time at which I was, of
+course, not present at the agency, and I cannot speak to things
+that happened before I was here. What I can say is that it is
+clear to me, as to the Commissioners, that fundamental changes
+do need to be made, need to be made deliberately, need to be
+made thoughtfully, and need to be made quickly.
+ We have already in a short 3 months begun to tackle the
+task of solving the problems that developed over a period of
+years and even decades. But it is a process that will take some
+time, both because the problems are difficult and also because
+the body is, of course, a deliberative one which works as a
+panel.
+ Some of the changes that we have looked at and even
+instituted involve implementation of GAO recommendations. For
+instance, we have already implemented or issued directives to
+implement over 20 of the recommendations that GAO has made,
+even within the first couple of months. It is certainly my
+highest priority to reform the management and financial
+structure of the Commission starting with those challenges
+which have been identified by the GAO and the Office of
+Personnel Management, and I think that we have at least made a
+step forward in addressing those.
+ Commissioner Redenbaugh also indicated that there are other
+reforms which have been discussed and may be raised during the
+meeting tomorrow. The Commission, as one of its very first
+acts, established a working group on reform to address internal
+and external communication matters and project planning.
+Commissioner Redenbaugh has chaired the meetings of that body,
+and I expect that through the working group on reform there
+will be additional substantial reforms that are recommended to
+the full Commission, which I hope will address many of the
+concerns that have been raised today.
+ In general, I would say that the challenges that we have in
+terms of our internal structure are very serious ones, but
+there is a very strong commitment by the Commissioners that I
+share to acknowledging those problems, identifying them, and
+solving them deliberately but quickly.
+ In addition to the structural problems, we also, of course,
+have very serious budgetary constraints within this fiscal
+year. We had been spending money at a pace which is
+unsustainable within our current appropriations. In fact, as of
+the time that I arrived, we were spending money at a pace which
+would exhaust our budget far before the end of the fiscal year.
+So our most urgent concern is to establish cost-cutting
+constraints to make sure that we live within our budget. Beyond
+that, we are very highly focused on establishing reforms to
+make sure that we are functioning properly as an agency not
+only because it's required by law and by the GAO
+recommendations, but also because our commitment is to ensuring
+that this agency is able managerially and financially to
+achieve its mission.
+ We all believe that the mission of this agency is vitally
+important, and I am dedicated to ensuring that we have the
+level of management necessary in order to meet that mission.
+ I thank you for the opportunity to speak and, of course,
+will be available to answer questions.
+ [The prepared statement of Mr. Marcus follows:]
+
+ Prepared Statement of Kenneth L. Marcus
+
+ Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am Kenneth L. Marcus, and I have served
+as Staff Director of the United States Commission on Civil Rights since
+mid-December 2004. The Commission is an independent bipartisan agency
+established by Congress in 1957 to investigate complaints alleging that
+citizens are being deprived of their right to vote for reason of their
+race, color, religion, sex, age, disability, or national origin, or by
+reason of fraudulent practices; to study and collect information
+relating to discrimination or a denial of equal protection of the laws
+under the Constitution because of the same bases; to appraise federal
+laws and policies with respect to discrimination or denial of equal
+protection of the laws because of the same bases; to serve as a
+national clearinghouse for information in respect to discrimination or
+denial of equal protection of the laws because of the same bases; to
+submit reports, findings, and recommendations to the President and
+Congress; and to issue public service announcements to discourage
+discrimination or denial of equal protection of the laws. The
+Commission has been called the ``conscience of the Nation'' on civil
+rights matters, and our recommendations to Congress have often led to
+the enactment of critical legislation.
+ I would like to preface my remarks today by thanking the Chairman
+and the Subcommittee for the opportunity to address today the
+challenges we face as an agency and the internal reforms we are
+implementing at the Commission. As you are certainly aware, the
+Commission has some extraordinary organizational and financial
+challenges to address.
+
+ CURRENT CHALLENGES
+
+ Those of us who are new to the Commission have inherited an agency
+in crisis, with profound management and financial challenges that we
+must face in short order. Many of these challenges have been well
+documented, over a period of years, by the Government Accountability
+Office, the Office of Personnel Management, and other entities. The
+challenges include weak internal, financial and project planning
+controls, as well as an unsustainable budgetary situation. These
+challenges pose a need for serious and significant reform. The GAO has
+issued three reports on the Commission since 1997 that bring a number
+of problem areas into focus--most notably management, financial
+accountability, and the quality and integrity of Commission projects.
+ The July 1997 GAO report, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights: Agency
+Lacks Basis Management Controls (GAO/HEHS-97-125), found broad
+management problems at the Commission, including limited awareness of
+how its resources were used. The GAO used blunt language to describe
+the status of this agency announcing, ``the Commission appears to be an
+agency in disarray with limited awareness of how its resources are
+used.'' At the time, the GAO reported that the Commission could not
+provide key cost information for its regional offices, complaints
+referral process, clearinghouse, public service announcements, and at
+least one project. It also reported that the Commission had not
+established accountability for resources and did not maintain
+appropriate documentation of agency operations.
+ An October 2003 GAO report, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights: More
+Operational and Financial Oversight Needed (GAO-04-18), found that the
+Commission lacked good project management and transparency in its
+contracting procedures. This report also found that the Commission had
+made a number of management improvements, including establishing
+policies that clarify the roles of senior management, preparing more
+detailed budget information for better fiscal administration, and
+instituting various project management procedures to meet target
+deadlines, since the GAO's last report in 1997.
+ The October 2004 GAO report, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights:
+Management Could Benefit From Improved Strategic Planning and Increased
+Oversight (GAO-05-77), found that the Commission had not fully complied
+with the requirements of the Government Performance and Results Act
+(GPRA). For example, the report had found that the Commission had not
+updated or revised its strategic plan since 1997. This report
+recommended improved strategic planning and increased oversight.
+ In general, the GAO's reports paint a portrait of an agency that
+was run out of control with little financial control, weak management,
+and little accountability. They are a wake-up call for this agency that
+we must implement substantial change and reform in order to meet our
+fiscal responsibilities and to restore public trust and confidence in
+us as ``the conscience of the Nation'' on civil rights.
+ When I arrived at the Commission in December 2004, I found little
+that was inconsistent with the GAO's highly critical assessment. The
+Treasury Department's Bureau of Public Debt previously provided
+accounting services to the Commission, but terminated its relationship
+with the Commission effective fiscal year 2004, citing concerns
+regarding the agency's financial responsibility.
+ A September 9, 2003 letter from the Department of Treasury to my
+predecessor, the Honorable Leslie Jin, provided to me by the Department
+of Treasury, reads in part as follows:
+
+ As an accounting service provider, we are assuming a high level
+ of responsibility for management and control of federal
+ government resources. To effectively perform our services, we
+ must rely upon a strong system of internal controls, which
+ includes prudent oversight and management of budgetary
+ resources by our customer agencies . . . Based upon our
+ experience in servicing your agency, we believe there is
+ inadequate management and control oversight of your agency's
+ funds.
+
+ At the time, the Department of the Treasury was particularly
+concerned about the Commission's over obligation of its fiscal year
+2003 budget authority and its failure to take adequate corrective
+action to avoid violating the Anti-Deficiency Act. In short, the
+Commission's financial controls had deteriorated to the point last
+fiscal year that another agency of the federal government refused to
+continue to service its account.
+ My predecessor was forced to seek a new accounting services
+provider in the midst of these challenges. The agency entered into an
+agreement with Booth Management Corporation in the middle of the fiscal
+year. That contractor is a small company seriously challenged by the
+difficulties of entering into a relationship in the midst of a fiscal
+year. Compounding this difficulty is the limited experience that it has
+with providing full service accounting to a federal agency and the
+difficult relationship that it had developed with Commission staff and
+other contractors.
+ Additionally, the Commission had not had an independent audit of
+its books for many years. The agency now finally is currently in the
+process of obtaining its first independent audit. The Parker, Whitfield
+firm is conducting the limited scope audit of the agency's balance
+sheet. Mr. Ernest Parker of the Parker, Whitfield firm has taken charge
+of the audit personally. This audit, originally scheduled for
+completion within a three to four-week time frame, is now in its fourth
+month, and his firm is not able to predict the length of time required
+to conclude the audit. Mr. Parker has attributed this difficulty in
+completing the audit to the Commission's failure to be forthcoming with
+financial records prior to my arrival. He has not leveled this charge
+specifically at any employee of the Commission but to at least one
+outside firm working on behalf of the Commission. More troubling, this
+independent audit informed me that, as of fall 2004, the Commission's
+financial records were in such disarray that it had no financial ledger
+whatsoever. This has since been remedied, but many other accounting
+practices are difficult or impossible to reform during the middle of a
+fiscal year.
+ As a result of the lack of accountability and transparency, the
+financial condition of the agency has been a substantial challenge for
+quite some time. The Commission's current budget for fiscal year 2005
+is $9,023,232. This is essentially unchanged from the prior fiscal year
+and has been held flat now for many years. At the same time, our
+primary expenses, specifically salaries and benefits, have continued to
+rise. Moreover, we are saddled with various expenses incurred during
+prior fiscal years but not yet paid. For example, the Commission's
+prior management deferred payment of approximately $75,000 for 2004
+rent, which we must pay this year. Similarly, we are now obligated this
+year to pay approximately $188,000 in equal employment opportunity
+claims against the Commission's former management out of $355,000 in
+civil rights claims resolved against or settled by prior management
+over the last five years. As of my arrival, the spending plans and
+assumptions of the Commission placed the agency on course to overspend
+its appropriations by a considerable sum. We are now working on cost-
+cutting measures to close this gap and provide us with a sufficient
+cushion against unexpected costs that we can assure that we are living
+within our means.
+
+ CURRENT REFORMS
+
+Administrative Instructions Addressing Integrity and Accountability
+ The Commission has begun to implement many reforms to strengthen
+accountability and transparency at the Commission, as well as address
+GAO recommendations in those areas. In my short time at the Commission,
+I have already issued three administrative instructions (AIs) that
+begin the long process of curing the substantial deficiencies at the
+Commission.
+ These administrative instructions--AI's 3-15, 3-16 and 4-21, all
+issued on March 11, 2005--implemented 29 GAO recommendations with
+respect to financial accounting and expense tracking, with AI 3-16
+alone implementing approximately 21 of those 29.
+ AI 3-15 establishes guidelines to ensure that the Commission
+recognizes payroll expenses in the proper period for accounting
+purposes. Specifically, AI 3-15:
+
+ Asks Commissioners to submit timesheets to the
+ Commission tracking their billable hours, either on a once-per-
+ pay-period or monthly basis;
+
+ Provides for submission of the timesheets to the
+ Office of the Staff Director for signature in a timely fashion
+ and eventual submission of the signed timesheet to the Human
+ Resources Division; and
+
+ Requires the Executive Secretary for the Staff
+ Director to follow up on Commissioners' timesheets that have
+ not yet been received by the second Thursday of a pay period.
+
+ AI 3-16 embraces a wide variety of reforms to ensure that non-
+salary expenditures have proper authorization, approval, and supporting
+documentation. Among other things, these reforms direct the Chief of
+the Budget and Finance Division to:
+
+ Periodically review accounts to identify unusual
+ balances;
+
+ Keep appropriate documentation in transaction files
+ to support accounting entries made to adjust or write off
+ assets and liabilities;
+
+ Retain sufficient evidence in transaction files to
+ show that all transactions have been properly approved for
+ payment;
+
+ Prepare purchase authorizations in advance of the
+ expenditure to be approved;
+
+ Have evidence of receipt of goods and services prior
+ to approving transactions of payment;
+
+ Provide travel vouchers and ensure that travelers
+ provide documentation to indicate the trip was taken; and
+
+ Require that all financial transactions be properly
+ approved and supported before being processed.
+
+This particular administrative instruction implements approximately 21
+of the GAO's recommendations.
+ AI 4-21 directs the Chief of the Administrative Services and
+Clearinghouse Division to:
+
+ Prepare and maintain contract files to document the
+ basis for Commission decisions in acquiring good and services;
+
+ Ensure that all statements of work contain a
+ provision on organizational conflict of interest;
+
+ Provide training to appropriate employees on federal
+ procurement rules, regulations, procedures, and issues;
+
+ Require that all aspects of the Commission's
+ procurement be documented in accordance with Federal
+ Acquisition Regulations; and
+
+ Report fiscal year procurement data for fiscal years
+ 2003 through 2005 into the Federal Procurement Data Center and,
+ going forward, to report such data annually into the Center.
+
+These are the first in what will be a lengthy series of reforms that we
+will adopt in order to ensure that the Commission complies with all
+legal requirements and that its management is sound. Between now and
+February 2006, we plan to implement GAO's pending recommendations and
+to establish significantly stronger internal controls and project
+planning procedures.
+
+ CONCLUSION
+
+ The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights has an illustrious history and
+a deeply important mission. As we approach the vital task of reform,
+our challenge is to establish the controls that are necessary to ensure
+the success of our mission. It is important that we carry out this
+mission with a high degree of integrity in order to ensure public
+confidence and trust in the Commission as ``the conscience of the
+Nation'' on civil rights matters.
+ I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
+
+ Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much. We appreciate your
+testimony.
+ [The Subcommittee proceeded to other business, to reconvene
+at the conclusion of that business.]
+ Mr. Chabot. At this time we will go back into our hearing
+relative to the Civil Rights Commission, and Mr. Harbison, you
+are recognized for 5 minutes.
+
+TESTIMONY OF GEORGE HARBISON, DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RESOURCES, AND
+ ACTING CHIEF OF BUDGET AND FINANCE, U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL
+ RIGHTS
+
+ Mr. Harbison. Mr. Chairman, honorable Members of the
+Subcommittee, good morning. My name is George Harbison, and I
+appear here today in acceptance of your invitation to express
+my thoughts relative to the fiscal and management practices of
+the United States Commission on Civil Rights. I have
+approximately 30 years of service in the Federal sector in the
+areas of financial management. From 1989 to 2005, I served with
+the Commission on Civil Rights as Chief of the Budget and
+Finance Division. Since February of 2005, I am currently
+serving as the Director of Human Resources and Acting Director
+of Budget and Finance.
+ During this time span, this 30-year time span, I also
+served----
+ Mr. Watt. Mr. Chairman, we are having a little trouble
+hearing him, if he could pull his----
+ Mr. Chabot. Could you pull the mike a little bit closer,
+Mr. Harbison? Thank you very much.
+ Mr. Watt. Thank you so much.
+ Mr. Harbison. During the 30-year career that I've had so
+far, I've also held other positions to include auditor, senior
+auditor, audit manager, and acting chief of an area audit
+office.
+ Upon my arrival here at the Commission, the Budget and
+Finance Division consisted roughly of four professional staff.
+This staff was responsible for managing the day-to-day fiscal
+activities of the Commission, and more specifically the
+division prepared, presented, justified, and executed the
+annual budgets of the Commission. We ensured preparation of
+required financial reports. We prepared ad hoc reports
+necessary for internal financial management. We implemented
+procedures as required by the Office of Management and Budget,
+the Department of Treasury, General Services Administration,
+and other agencies relative to financial management. We
+received certified payment and monitored invoice payments. We
+received certified and monitored travel for the Commission on
+Civil Rights. We ensured the establishment of a system of
+accounts compliant with Federal guidelines to account for all
+Commission expenditures.
+ I also served as security officer to safeguard individual
+privacy and agency financial information. At the same time I
+was serving as Commission liaison to Federal and private sector
+industries in matters related to finance and budget.
+ During the same period of time, from the period 1989 to
+2005, staffing within the division dwindled from four to three
+in 1989, from three to two in 2001, and from two to one in
+2005, and currently consists of one individual, who is me, in
+fact, for 2005.
+ With regards to the fiscal practices, the Commission on
+Civil Rights uses a centralized budgeting concept, meaning that
+essentially while budgeting, reporting, and monitoring of
+expenditures are done internally at the individual cost center
+level, control of the budget has rested with the Office of
+Staff Director, where all expenditures are approved,
+contractual arrangements negotiated, contractual contracting
+officer responsibilities are handled, contractor invoices are
+received, and contractor payments certified.
+ When the Commission changed the accounting service
+providers in fiscal year 2004, much of the accounting and
+reporting and monitoring functions previously done by the
+Budget and Finance Division were accomplished by a new
+contractor. This contractor also reported directly to the
+Office of the Staff Director. In essence, the Budget and
+Finance Division essentially became an instrument for
+processing travel documents, agenda payments, and related
+documents, and to answer questions related to these various
+issues.
+ Issues related to contractor performance and most liaison
+functions were handled by the Office of the Staff Director. As
+a result, the historical knowledge base relative to contractor
+performance rested with the Office of the Staff Director as
+well. The downside to a centralized budget is that it limits
+accountability of office heads to be responsible for the
+operation of their programs.
+ May I continue?
+ Mr. Chabot. Yes. Could you wrap up, though? Because your 5
+minutes are up.
+ Mr. Harbison. In summary, the Commission on Civil Rights is
+a viable organization, and while no one has specifically
+questioned my professional qualifications, I would say that 30
+years' background in fiscal management as well as auditing
+multi-billion-dollar contracts and multi-system weapons system
+well establishes my qualifications and credentials.
+ I think that, in summary, the Commission can best move
+forward through a systematic process of planning, obtaining
+human capital, inclusion of all stakeholders in its
+decisionmaking processes, and being provided with sufficient
+fiscal resources, i.e., money, to get the job done.
+ That concludes my testimony, Mr. Chairman.
+ [The prepared statement of Mr. Harbison was not available
+at the time of the hearing but is printed in the Appendix.]
+ Mr. Chabot. Thank you, Mr. Harbison.
+ Members of the panel now have 5 minutes each to ask
+questions, and I recognize myself for 5 minutes for that
+purpose.
+ Mr. Marcus, if I could start with you, as you know, I had
+an opportunity to stop down and visit your headquarters this
+past week, and you were kind enough to take me around the
+office and introduce me to some folks and see the space that is
+occupied. And as you know, a fair amount of the appropriations
+that your office receives is for rent, and one of the things
+that we had discussed was the three floors that you're on. And
+there are a fair number of, a pretty significant number of
+empty offices in there because of staff turnover and reductions
+of staff and for various reasons. And the actual layout of the
+office itself is probably not terribly efficient. And I would
+be interested to know what plans you have for maybe formulating
+for being more efficient in that area. And would you agree
+there's a considerable amount of waste in so much vacancy
+within the area?
+ Mr. Marcus. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would agree, and let me
+say we were delighted to welcome you, and it was very good to
+see the Chairman of the Subcommittee actually coming over and
+being interested enough to look in detail at the facility and
+what's going on at the Commission. So I was delighted by your
+interest.
+ One of the first things that occurred to me as I took the
+position, looking around the agency, is that when I looked at
+the offices of the Congressional Affairs Unit and saw that we
+had offices but no staff, when I looked at the offices of the
+Public Affairs Unit, we have offices but no staff; similarly
+for many other parts of the organization. Our staffing has
+dwindled to the point that some of our divisions or
+subdivisions are entirely empty of staff, and yet we are paying
+rent both at headquarters and in some of our regions for space
+that is not being used or not being used as efficiently as we
+could. I think we need to change that.
+ Now, one of the ironies that we have in terms of fiscal
+management is that when we make a move, we have immediate costs
+during the current fiscal year; the savings, of course, will be
+appreciated in future years. For fiscal year 2005, I don't
+believe that we can afford to make any moves right now because
+the costs would exceed our ability to pay. But I do think that
+at least with headquarters, we will need in the next fiscal
+year to seriously look at either consolidation of offices
+within our current space or, alternatively, with occupying a
+different space which is more appropriate to our staff size.
+ Mr. Chabot. You also have, for lack of a better term,
+satellite offices around the country, and you have five--
+actually, six, counting one that's within the same plan here in
+Washington.
+ Mr. Marcus. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that's exactly right.
+ Mr. Chabot. And do you have any thoughts relative to that,
+as to whether that's necessary or is an area that should be
+looked into as to the necessity for that many branches and
+whether or not it might be easier to occupy the folks in one
+location?
+ Mr. Marcus. The number of offices that we have had has
+expanded and contracted over the years. There have been times
+where we have had as few as three regional offices and times
+where we have had many more offices than we currently have.
+ The main work of our regional offices is to work closely
+with the State advisory committees in each of the States to
+enable them to be the eyes and ears of the Commission. They
+prepare reports and analyses that are close to the ground, as
+it were, in States around the country.
+ That work is mandated by our statute, and it does have to
+be done. There is no legal reason why we need to have field
+offices, and certainly no reason why we need to have the number
+of offices that we have now.
+ Mr. Chabot. And you're, for example, paying rent at those
+various locations and----
+ Mr. Marcus. We are paying rent at those locations, and so
+as we make difficult decisions regarding how we can live within
+our financial means, even in the very short term, of course, we
+will have to ask questions about whether we can continue to
+afford the number of offices that we have now.
+ Mr. Chabot. Okay. Thank you.
+ Mr. Redenbaugh, let me shift over to you, if I can. Again,
+I want to say that, you know, we were disappointed to hear
+about your resignation, and we're very grateful to the 15 years
+that you put in at the Commission. We really appreciate it, and
+we've heard many good things about you in particular.
+ I know you've tried to propose a number of reforms and met
+with some opposition. Could you describe for us why you think
+there is opposition to some of the common-sense financial and
+managerial reforms that you proposed? And what type of reforms
+did you propose that were rejected?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Well, the more recent round of reforms were
+proposed by Commissioner Kirsanow and myself, and they really
+went to the--I think five areas, perhaps four: the need for a
+full audit, the need for an Inspector General, a change in the
+way we do our program policies is another area. But I think
+that what I came to realize--and I'm a little bit embarrassed
+to admit it took me 15 years to figure this out--that the
+problem of the Commission is not a problem of partisanship or
+personalities. It's a problem of accountability, and no
+organization will ever reform itself voluntarily. It is just
+far too painful to do that. You know, organizations that lose
+customers or lose clients are compelled to change. The
+structure of incentives works that way. But an agency that has
+no customers and is so independent exempts itself from the
+necessity of reform. And I think it doesn't matter who the
+people are or their ideology. It's the nature of human beings
+to resist change.
+ Mr. Chabot. Thank you. My time has expired.
+ The gentleman from New York, Mr. Nadler, is recognized for
+5 minutes.
+ Mr. Nadler. Thank you. I'd like to continue this line of
+questions to Commissioner Redenbaugh for a couple of minutes.
+ Yes, people resist change. That's human nature, except for
+certain individuals. Most people resist change. But when you
+get a Commission even without customers and so forth and
+wholesale change in who the Commissioners are, for the new
+Commissioners that's not change. They come in. They want to
+clean house, et cetera. So why do you think that that can't
+happen?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. You mean why do I think it hasn't been
+happening?
+ Mr. Nadler. Well, recently there's been a rather wholesale
+change in the Commission membership, a change in orientation, a
+change in--why do you think that that new Commission membership
+is unamenable to the kind of change you think is necessary?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Well, you know, actually I don't know that
+the newest Commissioners are not amenable to that, and I
+suspect perhaps that they are. It's some of my longer-standing
+colleagues that have been reluctant, but I suspect they will
+now be more enthusiastic about that.
+ Mr. Nadler. So why do you think it is impossible to reform
+the Commission, as you stated, the new Commission--the current
+one is impossible?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Because anything we do to adopt motions
+tomorrow, for example, can be ignored next month or, as I said,
+unadopted next year. That's a change but not a difference.
+ Mr. Nadler. But what I don't understand is--yes, that is
+possible, obviously. Anybody can do something today and ignore
+it next month.
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Right.
+ Mr. Nadler. But you said, I think, in your testimony that
+you think it is necessary to have a Civil Rights Commission,
+you'd like to start over again.
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Yes.
+ Mr. Nadler. Okay. I don't understand how--let's assume you
+abolish this Commission and set up a new one. How do we set it
+up differently so it wouldn't have the same problems as opposed
+to simply making a change in who the Commissioners are to
+change it in any event? I don't understand the difference
+there. In other words, what would change? Why would one method
+work and not what has just been----
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Well, I think you'd want to do three things
+differently: have a clear purpose that was really understood,
+specify the processes by which people would work and the
+accountability, and that then would attract people who shared
+that purpose and would work through those processes.
+ Mr. Nadler. You're saying that the statutory purpose is not
+sufficient or is not clear enough?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. I think it's not clear enough, and I think
+the line of accountability and responsibility is very unclear.
+ Mr. Nadler. All right. But lines of responsibility and
+accountability can be changed without a statutory change. That
+can be changed within an existing Commission by the
+Commissioners if they want to. What you're really saying is
+that what is fundamentally wrong with the current Commission is
+that the statutory purpose is not sufficient.
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. I think the statutory purpose is not
+sufficient and the line of authority to Congress is not
+sufficient.
+ Mr. Nadler. Okay. Thank you very much.
+ Mr. Harbison, there's been a lot of criticism of the
+Commission for lack of financial controls, accountability, and
+so forth. You've heard all that. You stated that as the person
+in charge of the department in charge of finances, your staff
+has gone from three to zero, that is, from four to one, you
+being the one.
+ Is that--do you think that it would be fair to say that the
+problems with financing are because there's essentially no
+financing staff? Or was financing staff reduced because the
+financing function was parceled out to somebody else? I mean,
+which is first? What do you think is the problem?
+ Mr. Harbison. I think the problem, or at least a semblance
+of the problem, you've hit on both. You can't run a division
+without fiscal resources, without the people resources. You
+cannot do that. It's just too much. Even with three staff on--
+three people on staff, we were working 14-, 15-hour days, and
+on Saturdays and Sundays.
+ Mr. Nadler. Let me ask you a different question because my
+time is going to run out. When you had that full staff of four
+people prior to whenever you said it changed, would it be fair
+to say that there were no--that there were not greatly
+expressed concerns about financial accountability and
+practices? Did these problems or the perception of these
+problems arise after the staff was decimated?
+ Mr. Harbison. I would say that is correct. However, in the
+same breath, I would say that we have always been concerned
+with fiscal management.
+ Mr. Nadler. Physical or fiscal?
+ Mr. Harbison. Fiscal management. We are very much aware of
+the interest that Congress and the various Subcommittees have
+taken in the Commission on Civil Rights. So many of the
+things----
+ Mr. Nadler. No, no, but let me just, if I may for one
+further moment. I hope and I presume that the department of
+fiscal affairs, or whatever the title is, would be very
+concerned with fiscal affairs. My question is: Do you think
+that--and do you think--do you think that it is true that and
+do you think it is perceived from the outside that prior to the
+great reduction in staff that you had the fiscal affairs
+relatively well in hand and that--and, in effect, what I'm
+asking, I suppose, is: Did the problems or the perceived
+problems arise because there was no longer an adequate staff to
+handle it? Or was there some other problem?
+ Mr. Harbison. Yes.
+ Mr. Nadler. Yes to the first?
+ Mr. Harbison. Yes.
+ Mr. Nadler. Okay. Thank you very much.
+ Mr. Chabot. The gentleman's time has expired.
+ Okay. The gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Franks, is recognized
+for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. Franks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you,
+gentlemen, for coming before the Committee.
+ Commissioner Redenbaugh, I know that, you know, this is
+kind of a unique day for you in that it perhaps it may be the
+last time you will speak before the Congress as the member of
+the Commission, and certainly many of us are very disappointed
+in your resignation and appreciate your efforts to try to
+reform the Commission. And I guess with 15 years of
+perspective, sometimes, you know, we like to just say to a
+person like that, if you were emperor for a day, what are the
+changes that you would make? And I know you've stated in your
+testimony that the Commission should be shut down and perhaps
+restarted. But if you had the opportunity to rewrite the
+statutory mission of this Commission and to rewrite or
+restructure it entirely and to be the one to suggest what the
+funding of the Commission should be, how would you as emperor
+for the day fix this thing?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. You know, that is a very large and
+important question, and I don't think I can do it justice in
+the time we have. I'd be happy to continue the discussion with
+you later. I think that's the right question: How would you--if
+you didn't have this one, how would you create the right one?
+And I'd be happy to continue later with that.
+ Mr. Franks. All right. Well, perhaps I could try to narrow
+it just a little bit. If you could make just one change--
+sometimes, you know, we get so caught up in the inertia of an
+organization, especially with new members and the changes in
+personnel, and, of course, pressures from the outside and the
+inside. If you could just make one critical change to the
+Commission that you think would give it the best chance of
+fulfilling its ostensible purpose, what would that one change
+be?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Rethink the purpose and have the purpose be
+endorsed and shared by the eight Commissioners.
+ Mr. Franks. And not to be insistent here, but if you were
+to write--or just to say what you think the purpose should be,
+how would Commissioner Redenbaugh write that purpose?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Well, rather than what I think it should
+be, it needs to be generated by the sitting Commissioners.
+ Mr. Franks. You think that the sitting Commissioners should
+just come together and find some sort of new collective
+approach or new collective mission that they could all buy into
+and that somehow that would create the continuity and the
+commonality among the members that would help it go forward
+in----
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. If you're limiting me to one thing, that's
+the one thing, because Staff Director Marcus is a good manager.
+He does know how to put those processes in place. But in the
+absence of a clear and shared purpose, it'll be difficult.
+ Mr. Franks. That's always one of the great challenges in
+life, is to not know what you want and breaking your neck to
+get it. But thank you, Mr. Commissioner, and thank you all.
+ Mr. Chabot. Does the gentleman yield his time back?
+ Mr. Franks. Yes, I do.
+ Mr. Chabot. Okay. Thank you. The gentleman's time has
+expired.
+ It's my understanding that the gentleman from North
+Carolina, Mr. Watt, has to go to another Committee, so Mr.
+Conyers is okay with calling on Mr. Watt next. So we will do
+so. The gentleman is recognized.
+ Mr. Watt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Actually, I just had my
+staff person tell me that they're about to shortly take up the
+Congressional Black Caucus' budget on the floor, so I would
+just say that the questions that have been directed to Mr.
+Marcus and Mr. Harbison, while critically important from a
+management perspective, I would not even go into the
+micromanagement at that level about whether you've got too much
+office space or, you know, those kinds of things.
+ I think the more important questions really are the ones
+that have been pursued by my colleague who just got through
+asking questions, and that's the important debate--and I'm not
+sure it's a debate--between Commissioner Redenbaugh and
+Commissioner Yaki, both of whom, it seems to me, agree that
+there needs to be something, whether it's the existing Civil
+Rights Commission or some successor to the Civil Rights
+Commission with a different portfolio structure mechanism.
+ And I think we probably benefit more from allowing and
+asking Commissioner Redenbaugh and Commissioner Yaki to give us
+their vision. I'm not sure that we have the luxury of saying to
+the Commission you can write your own charter, because the
+Commission was a creation of the Congress and the executive
+branch at some point. And Commissioners don't sit down and
+decide what they are going to do. There is a mission here, and
+I think what has happened with this Civil Rights Commission and
+predecessor Civil Rights Commissions, whatever their
+composition, is much of what has happened in this Congress.
+ We've got a wonderful purpose. We have some wonderful
+people. But the processes have just--you know, and we had--we
+could sit here and blame the Commission for that, but we had a
+tremendous meltdown in our process just yesterday in this very
+Judiciary Committee, where we sat from 10 o'clock in the
+morning until 5:30 yesterday afternoon going through a charade.
+That doesn't mean that we should do away with the Judiciary
+Committee. We have meltdowns in the processes of the House that
+deprive us of being able to participate effectively in the
+democratic process. It doesn't mean we ought to do away with
+the House. The purpose, the democratic purpose of the House is
+one that people around the world fight, die, and, you know,
+bleed for. But the processes have fallen prey to partisan
+divides and philosophical divides that have made it impossible
+for us to talk to each other and honor the processes that
+should be in place to facilitate our talking to each other.
+ And so I'm hopeful as a result of this we won't get so tied
+up on what document we are subpoenaing and whether we got too
+much office space or, you know, whether this comma or that
+period fits in the right place. I hope we can spend some time
+focusing on this broader debate that Commissioner Yaki and
+Commissioner Redenbaugh have opened for us, and if we do a
+better job in this Committee of creating a bipartisan
+perspective on the mission and purpose of the Civil Rights
+Commission, I suspect that the Civil Rights Commission can do a
+better job of playing out what that mission is.
+ And while I'm disappointed that the Commission has reached
+this fork in the road, I'm no more disappointed about that and
+the $8 million that we have at risk there and at stake there
+than I am disappointed about our own failings in our own
+institution here, where we have much, much, much more
+financially and philosophically and image-wise at risk.
+ So, with that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back.
+ Mr. Chabot. Thank you. The gentleman yields back, and I
+think the gentleman makes some very good points, and I would
+agree that we should spend time looking at the overall picture.
+ I do believe that looking at how resources are being
+allocated, including office space, and the money that's being
+spent there when it could be perhaps better spent toward
+working toward improving civil rights in this country is
+important as well.
+ [Whereupon, at 10:31 a.m, the Subcommittee proceeded to
+other business, and reconvened at 10:48 a.m.]
+ Mr. Chabot. Again, we apologize for any inconvenience on
+having markups, but we have to do it while we have sufficient
+Members here to actually record the vote.
+ The gentleman from Iowa, Mr. King, is recognized for 5
+minutes.
+ Mr. King. I thank the Chairman and the panel for their
+testimony this morning.
+ Just to make a few remarks to Mr. Redenbaugh with regard to
+your testimony, I would tell you, Commissioner, that I was
+impressed with your testimony. It was concise, it was emphatic,
+it was clear, it showed conviction, and it was without notes.
+And all of those things add up to tell me that this is
+something, a decision and an opinion that you've come to after
+long deliberation and long service to your country. And I
+appreciate the brief recommendations that you have made with
+regard to how the Commission might be reformed into an
+effective body. And I wanted to make sure that that observation
+is on the record, but I'd like to direct my questions to Mr.
+Marcus, at least in the interim here.
+ That is, Mr. Marcus, I know you haven't been on task here
+very long, just a few months, and yet you walked into an
+environment that was a fiscal and policy mess, I think it's
+clear from this testimony and much documentation. And we
+apparently are not going to have access to the financial
+records up to that point that you stepped into this, so I would
+ask you: Have you prepared--I'm not going to ask you what steps
+you've taken because you said you've taken some of the 20
+recommendations, the GAO's recommendations. But have you
+prepared a written document that would be a road map or a plan
+to get the fiscal and the policy house in order?
+ Mr. Marcus. Thank you, Congressman. We have developed a
+plan with respect to 20-odd recommendations which we are now
+implementing. With respect to the other reforms, we are taking
+as our road map for at least the beginning phases the
+recommendations of the Government Accountability Office
+beginning with the most recent reports, including the report
+which has not yet been formally issued. Our intent is to start
+with those findings that have already been made where we know
+what the problem is and where it's been documented and where we
+have recommendations which appear to be sound.
+ That will take some year to accomplish. Those
+recommendations incorporate by reference additional
+recommendations by the OPM. So our starting point is with the
+recommendations that have already been made by the GAO in
+roughly reverse chronological order, including the OPM
+recommendations. I suspect that we will need substantial
+additional changes during what I would call the second year of
+reform, but the beginning phase is with the documents that are
+already publicly available from the GAO.
+ Mr. King. Mr. Marcus, if this Congress were to have
+sufficient patience and lend itself to the plan that you would
+bring forward, what would be a specific date that you would ask
+for to present the changes before this Committee and
+demonstrate that the entire task of fiscal and policy and
+functional organization had been--would you be willing to put
+this back before the scrutiny of this Committee? What would be
+an appropriate time?
+ Mr. Marcus. For problems that have built up over a period
+of many years, things can't be turned around in a day. I would
+think for a complete turnaround of the institution, it's hard
+in less than 2 years to do that. But I would say----
+ Mr. King. That's sufficient. It gives me a sense. And I
+didn't want to nail you down to a specific date, but I get a
+general idea. The task is large. How many staff now work for
+the Commission?
+ Mr. Marcus. The number fluctuates slightly, but it's
+approximately 67, including the 8 Commissioners and their 8
+assistants.
+ Mr. King. Have any been hired since you came on board?
+ Mr. Marcus. Yes. I have hired one and, in addition, there
+is, I believe, one who was hired subsequent to my--excuse me,
+was hired prior to my arrival but who arrived subsequent.
+ Mr. King. So what would be full staffing, then, to fill
+those offices, if that's the intent?
+ Mr. Marcus. Oh.
+ Mr. King. I mean, I had understood that about 70 maybe was
+about full staff, but apparently in this testimony today, it
+might be more?
+ Mr. Marcus. Well, we have some 37 vacant offices. As for
+the number of positions that we have that are vacant, I'm not
+sure of the number, but it's a substantial number. We certainly
+would need to have a larger number of people than we have now.
+Whether that number is equal to the number of formal vacancies,
+I'm not sure.
+ Mr. King. More money, more people. And who hired the staff
+that's there today?
+ Mr. Marcus. Some of them have been around for over 30 years
+and were hired by the staff directors from the seventies or the
+sixties. Most, and in particular, most in headquarters, were
+hired during the nineties and in the first few years of--since
+2000, so most was my immediate predecessor and his predecessor.
+ Mr. King. Thank you. I'd ask unanimous consent for one more
+minute.
+ Mr. Chabot. Without objection, so ordered.
+ Mr. King. I thank the Chairman. I'd just direct the
+question to Mr. Harbison. Mr. Harbison, you've been involved in
+financial management for 30 years, and you spoke to your
+professionalism in your testimony and 14 years there with the
+Commission. And I'd ask you, do you believe it was your
+fiduciary responsibility to have a general ledger and keep
+track of that? And if--you know, yes or no on that one, and
+maybe some opinion, but also where is the general ledger?
+ Mr. Harbison. The first question is yes, I do believe it.
+And the second question is that I'm advised that a general
+ledger does exist and has existed and has been provided to the
+auditors.
+ Mr. King. But you as the financial officer do not have
+access to the general ledger and you've been there 14 years?
+ Mr. Harbison. I am limiting those--the comments previously
+to the last year. Prior to that, yes, I did have access to the
+general ledger.
+ Mr. King. Thank you, Mr. Harbison.
+ Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
+ Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much.
+ Just to be clear, did you say you haven't had it for the
+last year?
+ Mr. Harbison. That is correct, sir.
+ Mr. Chabot. Where has it been?
+ Mr. Harbison. It has been with the previous staff director
+and the contractor who's doing our accounting systems.
+ Mr. Chabot. And to your knowledge, it's still with him or
+them?
+ Mr. Harbison. It's with the accounting service provider
+that's doing--that's contracted to do our accounting.
+ Mr. Chabot. Okay. But you haven't seen----
+ Mr. Harbison. They maintained----
+ Mr. Chabot. You haven't seen it or had access to it within
+the last year; is that correct?
+ Mr. Harbison. That is correct.
+ Mr. Chabot. Okay. Thank you very much.
+ The gentleman from Michigan, the distinguished Ranking
+Member of the full Judiciary Committee, Mr. Conyers, is
+recognized for 5 minutes.
+ Mr. Conyers. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
+ Let me ask our four witnesses if they have any free advice
+they would want to give us. I think I'm probably the last
+person that will be asking you questions. Is there--well, maybe
+there's only--I am the last.
+ Let me start with Mr. Yaki. You're the most free of any
+past activities with this Committee, so you're considered the
+innocent witness.
+ Mr. Yaki. Thank you. [Laughter.]
+ Mr. Conyers. What are you--now that you've got the flavor
+of here in Congress, nobody got their hides skinned off, and
+there was no emotional outbursts, and everybody was pretty
+rational, what free advice would you leave the Members of the
+Committee and the Chairman and Ranking Member Nadler and the
+rest of us to think about as we move forward?
+ Mr. Yaki. Thank you very much, Congressman Conyers, for
+asking that question, and in deference to Congressman King, I
+threw away my notes so he'd be more impressed with what I'd
+say.
+ I think it's very important that we recognize that if there
+were sins of the past, that they not go toward shackling of the
+future of this Commission. I think it's important that the kind
+of oversight that this Commission or any agency needs or
+requires from the Congress is done in a way that ensures that
+our mission must go forward.
+ I would say this: One of the things that struck me as the
+idea that was advanced by Mr. Redenbaugh about the clear
+purpose, I would disagree. I believe we have a clear purpose. I
+think that purpose is the general investigatory and fact-
+finding function in enforcing and examining civil rights in
+America. I think that is sufficiently clear. I think what
+perhaps is not so clear is that as we move forward, we are
+looking at individual agendas. And I would submit--and I am
+going to suggest this to the entire Commission tomorrow--that
+we should look at a way to try and re-energize the agenda and
+the scope of the Civil Rights Commission and have national open
+hearings where people can come and talk and discuss and tell us
+what is going on out there, what are the new things that are
+happening, what things may not have been picked up on, are
+being underreported, overreported, not reported at all, so that
+we may begin to look at that and from the ground up fashion a
+truly national civil rights agenda. I think that is an
+important component of what we want to do going forward.
+ But as for what this Committee does, I would hope that
+being someone who comes from Government and from a local
+legislature, I would hope that our staff director would work
+closely with the Chairman and the Ranking Member to apprise
+them of the reforms that are going on so they are comfortable
+moving forward to allow us to continue the important mission of
+protecting civil rights in this country.
+ Mr. Conyers. Commissioner Redenbaugh, have you reconsidered
+your resignation based on the wonderfully warm reception you've
+received here in the Judiciary Committee?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. What I have considered is I'd rather come
+here than there. [Laughter.]
+ It's much more collegial here. I was touched, Congressman
+Conyers, by what you said and particular thank you, but no, I
+have not.
+ Mr. Conyers. Well, I have the suspicion you're going to try
+to help out and when people come to you, even Commissioners,
+for counsel that you'll probably give it anyway, even though
+you're not on it. And I want to encourage you to continue to
+look at it and also feel free to consult with a number of us
+here on the Committee, because, you know, let's face it,
+there's a certain amount of politicalization of the process
+that is unavoidable.
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Right.
+ Mr. Conyers. I wish it weren't. Our votes frequently come
+in the floor, they're quite partisan. I mean, the D's vote one
+way, the R's vote another way, and yet we say but this issue is
+not a matter of Republicans or Democrats, but that's the way
+the vote goes.
+ So I don't feel--I mean, I would like that to be minimized,
+the partisanship, but the fact that it exists in a subject as
+prickly as civil rights is not shocking to me. The question is
+can we all get it together, and this Committee plays a huge
+role in helping you facilitate that. And that's what we want to
+do.
+ We're hoping that you'll avoid a lot of--as much partisan
+rancor as possible because it does, as everyone here has said
+so well, take away from the projects, the goals of the
+Commission itself. And we want to make sure that that
+continues.
+ For example, we've got the Cato Institute, the Heritage
+Foundation, which now seem to be weighing in, Mr. Marcus, in
+big time on the opinions. Now, maybe they were all the time,
+anyway. I know there are very few subjects that they decline to
+get into. But we've got to make sure that this thing comes off
+right. For us to be investigating whether privatizing Social
+Security is going to shortchange African Americans, for
+example, Chairman Chabot, is a subject that is being gone into
+by the Ways and Means Committee and numerous experts.
+ Mr. Chabot. The gentleman's time has expired, but if I
+could just comment. I don't know that anybody's talking about
+privatizing Social Security. There are some that are talking
+about personal savings accounts.
+ Mr. Conyers. Personal savings accounts, okay. Same thing.
+[Laughter.]
+ Right?
+ Mr. Chabot. I thought you might think that, but I think
+there's a difference.
+ Mr. Conyers. Okay. But even so, the President is on a 60-
+day tour. Members of Congress have been urged to hold town hall
+meetings. But one of the--I haven't heard anybody suggest we
+ought to check with the U.S. Civil Rights Commission to see
+what they think about this.
+ So, anyway, let's try to keep it down, ladies and
+gentlemen. Let's try to keep this thing on a realistic basis so
+that the cries of partisanship won't continue to arise again.
+And I want to thank all of you for coming here. I'm hoping that
+the Chairman of the Committee will see it in his interest to
+get the rest of the Commissioners up here and continue this
+kind of dialogue.
+ Mr. Chabot. We're certainly willing to do everything that
+we can to make sure that all the information that this
+Committee needs to get adequate oversight of the Civil Rights
+Commission is done, and we would consider future hearings, and
+we would work with the minority staff to accomplish that, if
+it's deemed necessary and appropriate.
+ We thank the gentleman for his comments, and I would now
+recognize the gentleman--is the gentleman from Indiana--did he
+leave? Okay.
+ At this time if there are--we were going to go into a
+second panel. This has gone off--let me ask--I recognize myself
+for a couple of follow-up questions. If any other Members want
+to do that in the short time that we have.
+ Let me ask, Mr. Marcus, just following up on some of the
+comments that Mr. Harbison had made in his testimony, relative
+to the ledger and the books and Booth and that sort of thing.
+Would you explain the duties of the Commission, the contracts
+to Booth Management, and could you explain--you know, you have
+the Director of Budget and Finance, and then you have Booth
+that apparently has a lot of the books. Would you explain
+whether the new director, who would be a GS-15 level Federal
+employee, would be responsible for the duties currently being
+performed by Booth Management?
+ Mr. Marcus. Yes, Mr. Chairman. The accounting and financial
+functions as well as related administrative and management
+functions are within the Office of Management and under the
+responsibility of the Director of Management, Tina Louise
+Martin. The position of Director of Budget and Finance was
+previously held by Mr. Harbison, who is now Director of Human
+Resources and Personnel, which creates a vacancy which we will
+fill at the GS-15 level.
+ That person will be responsible for oversight of all budget
+and financial matters, including additionally certain strategic
+planning responsibilities. That person will be responsible with
+dealing with oversight of all accounting practices. Currently
+we have a full service accounting provider named Booth. The new
+person would either interact with Booth or its successor, which
+might be a contractor or a combination of personnel.
+ I suspect that whatever we do with the new Budget and
+Finance Director, we would need a substantial amount of the
+work to be outsourced either to Booth or to another entity.
+ Mr. Chabot. Okay. Let me shift gears. Have you conducted a
+human resources evaluation of the Committee staff to get an
+accurate understanding of the Commission's staffing strength
+and needs? And what do you intend to do relative to making sure
+that the staff is as efficient as possible and that civil
+rights are being pursued?
+ Mr. Marcus. I have, of course, done an informal evaluation
+of the needs of the staff so as to determine what needs to be
+done on a right-away basis in light of the various emergencies
+that we have currently. As for a more formal or larger-scale
+plan, I know there is discussion among some of the
+Commissioners of various sorts of audit or analyses that might
+be done, and I think that that is possibly within the rubric of
+reforms that they are being considered. Whether it would be
+simply an analysis or a form of personnel audit is, I think,
+something that they are in the process of considering.
+ Mr. Chabot. Okay. Thank you.
+ I have a number of other questions. We've got three votes
+on the floor, and I don't want to have the witnesses have to
+come back here. So let me just ask one final question, and then
+if any other Members have any questions they'd like to ask in
+the time we have left, we'd be willing to do that.
+ Mr. Redenbaugh, let me go back to you. You had mentioned in
+your opening statement a number of things, but one thing you
+said struck me. You said that we don't have a clear purpose, we
+have agendas. And could you explain, expound upon that a bit,
+what you meant by that?
+ Mr. Redenbaugh. Yes. What I mean by that is we don't have--
+there's not an overarching theme or mission. To say that we're
+for civil rights doesn't--that merely announces we're not in
+the Department of Transportation. It doesn't--it isn't any
+organizing principle around which we can gather. So in the
+absence of that--and we have certain methods, like our fact-
+finding that Commissioner Yaki spoke about is one of our
+methods, but there isn't a mission that the Commissioners have
+even considered or adopted or embraced. Then in the absence of
+that, there are agendas put forward by Commissioners for
+particular projects, myself included.
+ Mr. Chabot. All right. Thank you very much. My time hasn't
+expired, but I'm going to call it expired.
+ Mr. King, did you have any final thoughts or comments that
+you wanted to make?
+ Mr. King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do, and I'll try to
+keep them brief.
+ As I sit here and listen to this testimony, I know there's
+a mountain of evidence underneath this testimony, and, Mr.
+Yaki, I appreciate you throwing away your notes and giving us
+your testimony. But I'm happy enough to hear it off the page,
+too, and it comes from the heart when it's truthful, and I know
+that you're limited in your background being on the Commission,
+but you gave us your best presentation today, and I appreciate
+that as well.
+ I will just say that a lot of us here are out of patience
+or down to the very last few drops of it, and there have been
+some months to take some steps. And even though reaction to a
+GAO recommendation, there have been three or four other times
+that the GAO has made those recommendations when there hasn't
+been a response, and maybe we'll see some response this time.
+But I would say that it also is incumbent upon the Commission
+to be proactive, to step ahead of the GAO, and to lay out some
+solid terms of reform, both in agenda and purpose and also in
+financial management. And to have not had access to that
+general ledger for over a year in the position that you were
+in, Mr. Harbison, I can't express what that means to me. If I
+had a financial officer that said, well, I'm sorry, your
+finances are in a mess but I couldn't get my hands on the
+records, I just don't think that can be excused.
+ Furthermore, I'd ask the Commission to lay out an agenda of
+issues they may want to take up, and some of those that comes
+to mind are Adarand, for example. I've spent my life in the
+contracting business. I know what that case says. I followed it
+from the beginning, and yet it has been circumvented by a thing
+called goals rather than quotas. Would that be an appropriate
+subject matter for a Commission to take up.
+ There are a number of others, and rather than go down
+through that list, Mr. Chairman, I would just say that, you
+know, I've had a bit of a voice here and I would add one more
+thing, and that is that most of the staff has been hired by the
+predecessor, and that's where their loyalty would be, that's
+where their philosophy would be, and that's where the problem
+to some degree has been. And I would be--I would suspect that
+it would be very difficult to do an overhaul of your Commission
+without making changes in staff, to bring in fresh faces, fresh
+people, and fresh philosophy so that you could actually truly
+get a new start. And I think many of the Commissioners have
+voiced a commitment to make a new start, and those are my
+recommendations on how to do it.
+ I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
+ Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much, Mr. King. We appreciate
+your comments.
+ Mr. Harbison, would you--you had a prepared statement.
+Would you be able to submit that for the record? I know most of
+your comments were----
+ Mr. Harbison. I have pretty much marked the one I have up,
+Mr. Chairman. I'd be happy to perhaps submit it later.
+ Mr. Chabot. That would be very good. If you could submit
+that, we'd appreciate it.
+ I want to thank all the witnesses for being here this
+afternoon--or, excuse me, this morning, and we have some votes
+on the floor that we have to head over to right now. And, Mr.
+Redenbaugh, I'm particularly--again, we're sorry to see you go.
+We thank you very much for the 15 years that you spent. And I
+have to say just personally there have been a number of my
+fellow Members of Congress and others that have talked about
+doing away with the Civil Rights Commission. I do not
+personally share that view. What I would much rather do is
+reform the Civil Rights Commission and have it once again stand
+for those things that in some years it stood through, as you
+mentioned in your testimony, Mr. Yaki, very significant
+historical things that it played a role in. And it's had
+problems over the years, some of them mismanagement, some of it
+financial issues, and there's just so many things that need to
+be resolved, and we certainly want the Commission's cooperation
+in obtaining these things.
+ And as I mentioned, I see some of the folks, the new folks,
+as really being part of the solution, not part of the problem,
+trying to reform this agency so that it can once again be the
+great Civil Rights Commission that it was intended to be. So
+that's what my hope is. I don't know whether that's going to be
+able to be accomplished or not, but that's certainly my goal.
+ And thank you for being here this morning. If there's no
+further business to come before the Committee, we're adjourned.
+Thank you.
+ [Whereupon, at 11:13 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
+
+
+ A P P E N D I X
+
+ ----------
+
+
+ Material Submitted for the Hearing Record
+
+Prepared Statement of George Harbison, Director of Human Resources, and
+ Acting Chief of Budget and Finance, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights
+
+
+
+ Response to post-hearing questions submitted by Chairman Steve Chabot
+ to Michael Yaki, Commissioner, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights
+
+
+
+
+ Response to post-hearing questions submitted by Chairman Steve Chabot
+ to Kenneth L. Marcus, Staff Director, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights
+
+
+
+
+ Response to post-hearing questions submitted by Chairman Steve Chabot
+ to George Harbison, Director of Human Resources, and Acting Chief of
+ Budget and Finance, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights
+
+
+
+ Letter of Resignation from Russell G. Redenbaugh, Commissioner,
+ U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, to Majority Leader Bill Frist
+
+
+
+Letter to Chairman Steve Chabot from Abigail Thernstrom, Vice Chairman,
+and Jennifer C. Braceras, Commissioner, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights
+
+
+
+
+
+
+