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+ - HONORING ``EQUAL PAY DAY'': EXAMINING THE LONG-TERM ECONOMIC IMPACTS OF GENDER INEQUALITY
+
+[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
+[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ HONORING ``EQUAL PAY DAY'':
+
+ EXAMINING THE LONG-TERM ECONOMIC
+
+ IMPACTS OF GENDER INEQUALITY
+
+=======================================================================
+
+ HEARING
+
+ BEFORE THE
+
+ COMMITTEE ON
+ OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
+ HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
+
+ ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
+
+ FIRST SESSION
+
+ __________
+
+ MARCH 24, 2021
+
+ __________
+
+ Serial No. 117-11
+
+ __________
+
+ Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Reform
+
+
+
+
+
+ [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
+
+
+
+ Available on: govinfo.gov,
+ oversight.house.gov or
+ docs.house.gov
+
+
+ ______
+
+
+ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
+ 43-961 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
+
+
+
+
+ COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
+
+ CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York, Chairwoman
+
+Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of James Comer, Kentucky, Ranking
+ Columbia Minority Member
+Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts Jim Jordan, Ohio
+Jim Cooper, Tennessee Paul A. Gosar, Arizona
+Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
+Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois Jody B. Hice, Georgia
+Jamie Raskin, Maryland Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
+Ro Khanna, California Michael Cloud, Texas
+Kweisi Mfume, Maryland Bob Gibbs, Ohio
+Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York Clay Higgins, Louisiana
+Rashida Tlaib, Michigan Ralph Norman, South Carolina
+Katie Porter, California Pete Sessions, Texas
+Cori Bush, Missouri Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
+Danny K. Davis, Illinois Andy Biggs, Arizona
+Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida Andrew Clyde, Georgia
+Peter Welch, Vermont Nancy Mace, South Carolina
+Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr., Scott Franklin, Florida
+ Georgia Jake LaTurner, Kansas
+John P. Sarbanes, Maryland Pat Fallon, Texas
+Jackie Speier, California Yvette Herrell, New Mexico
+Robin L. Kelly, Illinois Byron Donalds, Florida
+Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan
+Mark DeSaulnier, California
+Jimmy Gomez, California
+Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
+Vacancy
+
+ David Rapallo, Staff Director
+ Krista Boyd, Chief Oversight and Policy Counsel
+ Elisa LaNier, Chief Clerk
+ Contact Number: 202-225-5051
+
+ Mark Marin, Minority Staff Director
+ ------
+ C O N T E N T S
+
+ ----------
+ Page
+Hearing held on March 24, 2021................................... 1
+
+ Witnesses
+
+
+Megan Rapinoe, U.S. Women's National Team and Equal Pay Advocate
+ Oral Statement............................................... 6
+
+Ai-jen Poo, Executive Director, National Domestic Workers
+ Alliance
+ Oral Statement............................................... 6
+
+Khara Jabola-Carolus, Executive Director, Hawaii State Commission
+ on the Status of Women
+ Oral Statement............................................... 8
+
+Patrice Onwuka, Director, Center of Economic Opportunity
+ Oral Statement............................................... 9
+
+Dr. C. Nicole Mason, President and Chief Executive Officer,
+ Institute for Women's Policy Research
+ Oral Statement............................................... 11
+
+ Opening statements and the prepared statements for the witnesses
+ are available in the U.S. House of Representatives Repository
+ at: docs.house.gov.
+
+ INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
+
+ ----------
+
+
+ * Report, ``It's Time to Care'' by the TIME'S UP Foundation;
+ submitted by Chairwoman Maloney.
+
+ * Letter, from the National Partnership for Women and Families;
+ submitted by Chairwoman Maloney.
+
+ * Statement, by Professor Julie Suk; submitted by Chairwoman
+ Maloney.
+
+ * Report, IWPR by Dr. C. Nicole Mason; submitted by Chairwoman
+ Maloney.
+
+ * Study, Goldman Sachs Black Womenomics Study; submitted by
+ Rep. Tlaib.
+
+Documents entered into the record during this hearing are
+ available at: docs.house.gov.
+
+
+ HONORING ``EQUAL PAY DAY'':
+
+ EXAMINING THE LONG-TERM
+
+ ECONOMIC IMPACTS OF GENDER INEQUALITY
+
+ ----------
+
+
+ Wednesday, March 24, 2021
+
+ House of Representatives,
+ Committee on Oversight and Reform,
+ Washington, D.C.
+ The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:34 a.m., in
+room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Carolyn B.
+Maloney [chairwoman of the committee] presiding.
+ Present: Representatives Maloney, Norton, Lynch, Connolly,
+Krishnamoorthi, Raskin, Khanna, Ocasio-Cortez, Tlaib, Porter,
+Davis, Wasserman Schultz, Welch, Johnson, Sarbanes, Speier,
+Kelly, Lawrence, DeSaulnier, Gomez, Comer, Jordan, Grothman,
+Cloud, Gibbs, Sessions, Keller, Biggs, Mace, Franklin, Fallon,
+Herrell, and Donalds.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The committee will come to order.
+ Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare
+recess of the committee at any time.
+ I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
+ Today is Equal Pay Day, but it is not a celebration. Today
+marks the extra days and weeks it takes American women to earn
+the same pay that their male counterparts made in the previous
+year. Three extra months of work just to earn the same amount.
+ In 1963, when the Equal Pay Act was signed, women made
+$0.59 for every dollar earned by men. We have gotten a raise.
+We've made some progress since then, but not nearly enough, and
+it's unfair.
+ Today in 2021, on average, women are still paid only $0.82
+for every dollar paid to a man. The gender pay gap is even
+worse for many women of color. For every dollar paid to White
+men, Asian-American women overall are paid $0.87 to the dollar,
+Black women are paid $0.63, Native American women are paid
+$0.60, and Latina women are paid just $0.55.
+ Today marks all women's Equal Pay Day, reflecting the
+average across races and ethnicities. Asian American and
+Pacific Islander women's Equal Pay Day is March 9. Black
+women's Equal Pay Day isn't until August 3. Native American
+women's Equal Pay Day isn't until September 8, and Latino
+women's Equal Pay Day isn't until October 21.
+ This is a disgrace, and it has long-term consequences for
+women and families. The pay gap even reaches professional
+female athletes who are paid significantly less than their male
+counterparts, even when they perform the same or much, much
+better. The U.S. women's national soccer team is incredibly
+successful, winning far more games than the men's team,
+including both the 2015-and 2019-Women's World Cup. But U.S.
+Soccer pays members of the women's national team as little as
+$0.38 on the dollar compared to the men's national team.
+ I am grateful today that we will hear from world champion
+soccer player and equal pay advocate, Megan Rapinoe, about why
+we need to close the gender gap, not just for professional
+athletes, but for everyone.
+ Routinely earning less than we deserve impacts us for life.
+As vice chair of the Joint Economic Committee, I released a
+report in 2016 showing that lower wages over a lifetime result
+in reduced Social Security and pension benefits and make it
+harder for women to save for retirement. Other research
+suggests that women also experienced disparity in access to
+resources of incomes outside of salary and wages, such as
+employment benefits that contribute to financial security and
+prosperity during a career.
+ On average, women earn approximately $900,000 less than men
+over their lifetime. We also know that economic insecurity
+makes women more vulnerable to other devastating circumstances,
+like workplace sexual harassment, domestic violence, and abuse.
+Women working in low-wage jobs have even fewer workplace
+protections, making them and their families even more
+vulnerable.
+ The economic harm caused by longstanding gender
+inequalities has only been exasperated-caused a greater problem
+because of the coronavirus pandemic. Women comprise a majority
+of healthcare and other social service workers and
+disproportionately shoulder the burden of the coronavirus
+pandemic. Women without access to paid leave have been forced
+to decide whether to forego income, to step back from their
+professions in order to care for themselves or their loved
+ones.
+ Today, we'll talk about reforms that promote an equitable
+and inclusive economic recovery for women across the U.S., so
+with our response to this crisis we cannot only recover but
+build a more equal future.
+ I am pleased that the Education and Labor Committee is
+marking up the Paycheck Fairness Act and other critical reforms
+today. One of the most basic protections women are lacking in
+our country is constitutional equality. I have advocated for
+the equal rights amendment for over 25 years. The ERA would
+establish freedom from discrimination on the basis of sex as a
+constitutional right. There is no other way to enforce equal
+pay for equal work in the courts unless we have the ERA, and it
+is one of many permanent fundamental fixes we need to stem the
+tide of gender inequality in our country.
+ For millions of Americans, these issues are of vital
+importance. Ensuring an equitable recovery from the corona
+pandemic requires facing the reality of gender inequality head
+on. Our coronavirus recovery plans must set the stage for bold,
+transformative policy decisions that will bring us into a more
+equal future. We cannot achieve recovery without equality.
+ I now recognize the distinguished ranking member, Mr.
+Comer, for an opening statement.
+ Mr. Comer. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Maloney, for holding
+this hearing. And I want to welcome our distinguished guests to
+the committee hearing today.
+ I would also like to set the tone for this hearing by
+saying two people who have the same education and perform the
+same job should receive the same compensation, regardless of
+race, gender, or any other irrelevant characteristic. I think
+we all agree on that. And as we discuss this important topic, I
+think it's important to note how the pandemic has devastated
+women in the work force.
+ Overall, since the start of the pandemic, women have lost
+nearly 1 million more jobs than men, and account for 55 percent
+of overall net job loss. Not only are women more likely to be
+in the jobs that were lost when the country shut down, but the
+responsibility of supervising children in the remote schooling
+has fallen most heavily on mothers. Recent data shows that
+nearly one in four women are considering downshifting their
+careers or leaving the work force altogether to care to their
+children. Yet the data shows that community spread is not tied
+to school spread and we know kids are safer in school. Many
+teachers have been vaccinated, so it's now time to prioritize
+our kids. We must open schools for full in-person instruction
+and reopen the economy to get women back in the work force.
+ With that, I yield the remainder of my time to
+Congresswoman Mace, a pioneer for women in the work force and
+the first woman to graduate from the Citadel, the military
+college in Charleston, South Carolina. I yield to Ms. Mace.
+ Ms. Mace. Thank you, Ranking Member Comer. Appreciate you
+yielding your time. And I want to thank Chairwoman Maloney for
+convening this meeting today.
+ As someone who has broken glass ceilings and barriers all
+her life, like many of the women on here today and watching, I
+want to say thank you, but I also don't want to have a message
+of doom and gloom. I want to have a message of hope for every
+woman who's out there working or in the home. Today should also
+be a celebration for women. And when we talk about equality and
+equal rights, our constitutional rights to equality are covered
+and protected under the 14th Amendment, because if it's not,
+then that means I have no protections today. And I believe, as
+a hard-working single mom and American, that my rights are
+protected under their Constitution today and I am not denied
+those rights.
+ I want to start off by echoing the ranking member's
+statement. Two people who have the same education and perform
+the same job should receive the same pay, regardless of their
+gender, their race, their sexual orientation, or any relevant
+characteristics. But I think it's also important to, when we're
+talking about this issue, to acknowledge the raw numbers. You
+know, it's not just the number that's been cited, but there are
+other factors. We're going to hear those numbers from members
+from the other side of the aisle probably all day today, and
+they will no doubt be used during the duration of the hearing,
+but they don't give an accurate entire picture. And I think
+it's important when we're talking about data that we look at
+the entire picture.
+ So, the raw wage gap number is not a measure of equal pay
+for equal work; it's a comparison of averages. The often-cited
+statistic we heard just now about $0.80 per dollar men earn
+does not actually compare women and men in the same profession
+who work the same hours with the same qualifications or
+experience.
+ So, when we have this, I believe, very important
+conversation in support of that today, I want to start with the
+data in context. So, one suggested for factors such as hours
+worked and compensation packages, family and marital status,
+the gender wage gap, I believe, is significantly smaller than
+what we're talking about today. And in most cases, when you
+look at the data, you look at context, we're talking context.
+We're talking about between 2 and 10 percent. So, I'm not
+saying there's no gender wage gap, I'm not saying its
+statistically unlikely women earn less than men; I'm just
+saying that it's not because of widespread discrimination.
+ There's always been discrimination, and we may never be
+able to resolve it 100 percent at all. I've been in a male-
+dominated industry my entire life, and I've seen that
+discrimination in every industry that I've been in. But thanks
+to existing legislation that we have, 1963, the Equal Pay Act,
+and in 1964, the Civil Rights Act, wage discrimination is
+illegal and should be adjudicated and can be adjudicated and
+held accountable. Bad actors can be in the civil justice
+system.
+ In order to get a clearer picture, I want to briefly look
+at the data and start with hours worked. In 2019, the
+Department of Labor's time use survey found the average full-
+time working man spends 8.32 hours a day on the job, compared
+to 7.73 hours for the full-time working woman. So, let's be
+clear. This is not a reflection of effort; it's women on
+average spend more time doing other unpaid work.
+ There's been a survey that was done in 2019 that 22 percent
+of men say they do household work compared to almost half of
+women. So, don't get me started on that conversation either,
+but there are big differences, statistically significant
+differences. But hours worked isn't the only factor to consider
+here. The data show that women, in general, they're willing to
+trade higher pay for more flexibility, whereas the data shows
+that men are willing to trade flexibility for higher pay.
+ And you know, children also play a role in all of this. So,
+these are important factors when we're having this
+conversation. And not too long ago, we, as women, we didn't
+have the ability to make decisions about our professional
+careers, our personal lives, where we went to school. All of
+these have been achievements and successes that we've had, and
+I want us to celebrate those.
+ As the Ranking Member Comer said earlier, prior to the
+pandemic, women were joining the work force at a faster pace
+than men. Women outnumbered men in earning college degrees, but
+in the last year, we've seen, because of schools closures, that
+we've had over 3 million women leave the workplace. And this
+has been devastating to the progress we've made to women going
+into work and having careers. I cannot express how devastating.
+We've set ourselves back decades because of COVID-19 and school
+closures. But we must continue to work for equal opportunity
+and individual flexibility rather than simply equal pay. There
+are other factors. These two are not mutually exclusive.
+ And I want to thank the ranking member for yielding his
+time.
+ I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
+ I'll now introduce our witnesses.
+ Without objection, I now recognize my good friend and
+colleague, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, to introduce our
+first witness who is a constituent of Representative Jayapal's.
+And thank you for helping us get this witness.
+ Ms. Jayapal. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Maloney, and for
+your tremendous leadership on so many issues.
+ I'm delighted to be here to introduce a pride of Seattle
+and, indeed, our country, Megan Rapinoe. Ms. Rapinoe is helping
+to redefine the role of leadership in professional sports. She
+is a soccer superstar and a fierce activist. We all remember
+that remarkable moment when the crowd began chanting ``equal
+pay'' instead of ``USA'' after Ms. Rapinoe and her teammates on
+the U.S. Women's National Team won their second consecutive
+world cup championship in 2019.
+ Ms. Rapinoe is one of the most accomplished soccer players
+in the world. She is an Olympic gold medalist and she's won two
+world cup championships. She uses every opportunity to advocate
+for causes she cares deeply about, from social and racial
+justice and LGBTQ rights to equal pay. Ms. Rapinoe is dedicated
+to fighting for the rights of all athletes to work in a country
+and a world where economic, racial, and gender justice yields
+equal pay, dignity, and respect.
+ Megan, we are so very proud, not only of your remarkable
+talents and achievements, but for your willingness to use your
+platform to fight for equality for all of us. Thank you for all
+you do, and I look forward to hearing your testimony today.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you. After Ms. Rapinoe, we will
+hear from Ai-jen Poo, who's the executive director of the
+National Domestic Workers Alliance.
+ Next, we will hear from Khara Jabola-Carolus, who is the
+executive director of the Hawaii State Commission on the Status
+of Women. She is also testifying from Hawaii where it is a
+little after 3:30 a.m. in the morning, so we thank her for her
+sacrifice.
+ Next, we will hear from Patrice Onwuka, who is the director
+of the Center for Economic Opportunity.
+ Last but not least, we will hear from Dr. C. Nicole Mason,
+who is the president and CEO of the Institute for Women's
+Policy Research.
+ I'd like to note that Ms. Rapinoe has a conflict this
+morning and, therefore, has a very hard stop at 10:45, but we
+will try to get through as many questions as we can with Ms.
+Rapinoe before she has to go.
+ The witnesses will be unmuted so we can swear them in. Now,
+please, please raise your right hands.
+ Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to
+give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
+so help you God?
+ Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the
+affirmative.
+ Thank you.
+ Without objection, your written statements will be made
+part of the record.
+ With that, Ms. Rapinoe, you are now recognized for your
+testimony.
+
+ STATEMENT OF MEGAN RAPINOE, U.S. WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM AND
+ EQUAL PAY ADVOCATE
+
+ Ms. Rapinoe. Thank you, Chairwoman Maloney, and thank you,
+Representative Jayapal from the great state of Washington, for
+such a warm welcome. And thank you, everyone, for having me
+here today. It is an honor to be here in front of you.
+ It's probably no surprise, but equal pay and equality, in
+general, is a deep and personal passion of mine. And what we've
+learned and what we continue to learn is that there's no level
+of status and there's no accomplishment or power that will
+protect you from the clutches of inequality. One cannot simply
+outperform inequality or be excellent enough to escape
+discrimination of any kind.
+ And I'm here today because I know firsthand that this is
+true. We're so often told in this country that if you just work
+hard and continue to achieve, you will be rewarded and rewarded
+fairly. It's the promise of the American Dream, but that
+promise has not been for everyone.
+ The United States Women's National Team has won four world
+cup championships. We've won four Olympic gold medals on behalf
+of this great country. We've filled stadiums, we've broken
+viewing records, we've sold out our jerseys, all the popular
+metrics by which we are judged, and yet, despite all of this,
+we're still paid less than our male counterparts.
+ For each trophy, of which there are many, for each win, for
+each tie, for each time we play, less. In fact, instead of
+lobbying with the Women's Team in our efforts for equal pay and
+equality in general, the U.S. Soccer Federation has continually
+lobbied against our efforts and the efforts of millions of
+people marginalized by gender in the United States. And if it
+can happen to us and it can happen to me with the brightest
+light shining on us at all times, it can, and it does happen to
+every person who is marginalized by gender.
+ But we don't have to wait. We don't have to continue to be
+patient for decades on end. We can change that today. We can
+change that right now. We just have to want to.
+ So, as always, LFG. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
+ Ms. Poo, you are now recognized for your testimony.
+
+STATEMENT OF AI-JEN POO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL DOMESTIC
+ WORKERS ALLIANCE
+
+ Ms. Poo. Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking Member Comer, and the
+members of the committee, thank you for holding this hearing
+and for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the National
+Domestic Workers Alliance and Caring Across Generations. Also,
+happy Women's History Month, and thank you for the passage of
+the American Rescue Plan.
+ Because of your leadership, women who are struggling to
+survive have a real chance for recovery. Equal Pay Day was
+created to shine a light on gender pay and equity. Women earn
+$0.82 for every dollar earned by White men for the same work.
+For women of color, those numbers drop even lower: $0.63 for
+Black women, $0.60 for native women, and $0.55 for Latinas.
+Asian and Pacific Islander women are paid $0.85 for every
+dollar, and within this group there are more disparities.
+Vietnamese women earn $0.67 cents, Hmong women earn $0.61, and
+Burmese women earn only $0.52.
+ For domestic workers, equal pay is not only about equal pay
+for equal work; it is also about equal valuing of the work that
+women do in the economy at large. Caregiving and cleaning work
+is work that has always been assigned to women and taken for
+granted that women will do. As a profession, it has been
+associated with Black women, women of color, and immigrant
+women. Domestic workers are 92 percent women and more than half
+women of color.
+ This work epitomizes essential work. It enables millions to
+participate in the work force knowing their homes and families
+are safe. Despite what domestic workers make possible for all
+of us, it's shockingly undervalued. The average annual income
+of a home care worker is approximately $17,000 per year, and 82
+percent of domestic workers don't have a single paid sick day.
+ The pandemic has deepened inequity for women who are
+already struggling. In March 2020, over 52 percent of domestic
+workers surveyed had no work. A week later, that number
+increased to 68 percent. On a call with our members, one woman
+held up her phone to the camera to show us that she literally
+had one cent left in her bank account. Like millions of
+domestic workers, she was faced with the impossible choice of
+keeping herself and her family safe and putting food on the
+table.
+ Susie Rivera, home care worker in Texas for over 40 years,
+has continued working as an essential worker throughout the
+pandemic, without paid sick days, paying out of pocket for her
+own PPE and safe transportation to reach her clients, and to
+support her family, earning a wage of $11 per hour.
+ But the care crisis for women is bigger than domestic work.
+According to the National Women's Law Center, women's overall
+participation in the work force has dropped by 57 percent, the
+lowest level since 1988. Nearly 3 million women have left the
+work force since the pandemic began and a leading driver is the
+increase in caregiving responsibilities in the home and the
+inability to find affordable and reliable family care.
+ As our childcare centers and schools closed, our nursing
+homes became vectors, and all of us socially distanced, we
+realized that we had no foundation or infrastructure to support
+our ability to care for our families but for the invisible care
+work that women did and could no longer do in the same way.
+Especially for women essential workers in minimum wage jobs,
+from restaurant workers to grocery workers, too many women
+simply do not earn enough to make ends meet or to make care
+work.
+ From the boardroom to the classroom, gender inequity in the
+workplace fundamentally rests on how we value or fail to value
+caregiving and care workers.
+ This Congress has a profound moment of opportunity to
+rebuild and reset our economy, to be more fundamentally
+equitable. The only way to achieve fair pay for care workers is
+for Members of Congress to decide it's a priority.
+ As we look toward economic recovery, we must pass the
+Domestic Workers Bill of Rights, legislation sponsored by
+Congresswoman Jayapal, and we must invest in caregiving the way
+we invest in infrastructure, the care work force and childcare,
+paid leave, home and community-based services that will enable
+women and everyone else to have the ability to return to work.
+ Thank you.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you so much.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus, you are now recognized for your
+testimony.
+
+ STATEMENT OF KHARA JABOLA-CAROLUS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HAWAII
+ STATE COMMISSION ON THE STATUS OF WOMEN
+
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Aloha, Chair, Ranking Member, and
+honorable members. My name is Khara Jabola-Carolus and I direct
+the Hawaii State Commission on the Status of Women, which
+became the first government agency in the world to propose a
+feminist economic recovery from COVID-19 last year.
+ You've heard about the disproportionate job losses, the
+shadow pandemic of violence, and the care crisis. I'm here to
+talk about what Hawaii is doing about it, in the hope that our
+example can assist you to better integrate the knowledge
+developed by Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander, Asian, and
+Black women.
+ Hawaii is still indigenous. America is still indigenous.
+Our feminist economic recovery plan was guided by indigenous
+knowledge and conceived in deep consultation with our
+community. It has different origin stories depending on each
+person who you talk to who procreated it, but for me, I
+pinpoint almost two years ago exactly.
+ I was just about to finish up a long day when a wave of
+pain started building up in me and immediately, I started to
+cry. I started to cry, not because I knew that my baby was
+coming, but because I also knew that I had a work assignment
+due that would not be forgiven if missed. I know the women in
+this hearing know what I'm talking about.
+ Technically, nobody is going to give you flak for using
+childbirth as an excuse, but I knew that I would be less
+respected. I knew that I would be penalized one way or another
+for dropping the ball in our girl boss Game of Thrones work
+culture. So, I chose work. I chose to not be in that moment. I
+did not choose my family, my baby, or myself. I took a deep
+breath, and I bent over in front of my laptop and I typed,
+screamed, and labored until literally the sun came up. Most
+moms in America can recite to you the rest of the story. I went
+back to work when my baby and I were both in diapers because I
+couldn't afford extended leave without pay. This is an
+unremarkable story of American motherhood.
+ This is also a story about the gender pay gap. It was only
+after the dust had settled that I started to allow myself to
+imagine what a world would be like if--what that day and that
+year would have been like in a world that was not built around
+fake growth, productivity, profit, and gain. Whatever your
+feelings about feminism, everyone can agree that this system is
+breaking our hearts, and women deserve a profound reordering of
+values.
+ Women face acute challenges where I live underneath the
+glossy marketed image of Hawaii as one of America's toughest
+economies to survive. This was the backdrop of our feminist
+plan, and here are some of our key proposals that I'd like to
+share.
+ First, we'd like to move beyond the GDP and utilize new
+measures of wealth that are not inherently sexist. We also want
+to end the gender segregation of the economy. We want to
+establish gender justice, and specifically women's liberation,
+as a core function of government. Integrate a feminist lens
+through our policymaking.
+ Require publicly available disaggregated data so we can
+determine how women are accurately faring.
+ We want to transition from dependency on over tourism,
+armed conflict, and land speculation and invest in land
+stewardship and local food systems.
+ We also want to give land, housing, and a 20 percent pro
+rata share of COVID funds to Native Hawaiians first.
+Landlessness greatly affects women and land acknowledgements
+cannot house Native Hawaiians.
+ We want to prevent gender violence and implement the Bodies
+Back Model for noncarceral abolition of harmful industries that
+sell the dehumanization and hyper sexualization of Native
+Hawaiians, Asian, Pacific Islander, Black, and LGBTQ people.
+ We also want to prioritize high-risk groups, such as
+transgender people, by setting hiring goals in the public
+sector.
+ I'll stop there. The list goes on, but the takeaway is
+singular. Women don't want equal pay if it means we have to
+keep serving men in society through gendered labor. Our vision
+is much bigger than that. We want freedom from hierarchy and
+servitude that only a new economy can provide.
+ Accordingly, we ask for your support in this grand project
+we are undertaking in Hawaii, and we mahalo you for this
+opportunity to testify.
+ [Speaking native language.]
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
+ Ms. Onwuka, you are now recognized for five minutes.
+
+ STATEMENT OF PATRICE ONWUKA, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR ECONOMIC
+ OPPORTUNITY, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM
+
+ Ms. Onwuka. Thank you, Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking Member
+Comer, and distinguished members of this committee. Thank you
+for having me today. My name is Patrice Onwuka and I'm the
+director of the Center for Economic Opportunity at the
+Independent Women's Forum.
+ IWF is the leading women's organization dedicated to
+developing and advancing policies that enhance peoples'
+freedom, opportunities, and well-being. My work focuses
+specifically on expanding opportunities for women. So, it's an
+honor to be here today to talk with you about how we can ensure
+women are treated fairly in the workplace.
+ And as has been mentioned before, women made tremendous
+gains in the work force before the pandemic hit. Unfortunately,
+we've heard about the fallout from the pandemic and other
+measures nationwide that are making it harder for women to
+pursue their dreams today.
+ Now some point to gender discrimination as the factor
+holding women back. The pay gap is held up as evidence of
+widespread gender discrimination in the labor force. It should
+not be.
+ Fact No. 1, the pay gap is largely due to the choice's
+women make. Now, more choices in their careers is actually a
+positive sign of progress for women. Let's look at the Bureau
+of State Labor Statistics. As we know, and as we heard from
+Congresswoman Mace earlier today, women on average earn about
+82 percent of what men earn, but there is a massive asterisk
+attached to that. This is uncontrolled. The raw data point
+does, No. 1, not compare two people in the same job and, No. 2,
+control for so many factors that influence pay. You've heard
+about some of those factors, and I'm going to dive into a few
+more today. But as we know, when you control for those factors,
+the pay gap shrinks to two cents on the dollar at best.
+ When we look at wage analysis by private employers like
+Glassdoor--employment experts like Glassdoor and payscale.com,
+they both find similar two-cent to even five-cent pay gaps. So,
+this tells us that, yes, the pay gap is very much driven by
+those choices.
+ Now, we've heard that women work fewer hours than men. They
+also work more part time than men. Women and men sort
+differently in the work force--men into higher paying
+occupations and women into traditionally lower paying
+occupations. Even within occupations, men and women will choose
+different career tracks for different reasons. When we look at
+Hispanic women, Black women, they are overrepresented in-
+service jobs and lower paying occupations. Meanwhile, they're
+underrepresented in those higher paying positions. So, it's not
+surprising that we see an even larger wage gap, uncontrolled
+wage gap, for minority women.
+ Looking at majors that women choose, women tend to consider
+nonfinancial considerations, like the enjoyment of the future
+job, personal fulfillment, whereas, men, young men in college,
+are thinking about their salaries, their earnings potential.
+And very interesting, not often heard, fewer women work in the
+most dangerous jobs. So----
+ And I think finally the big one, is obviously around
+family, family planning. And so, men and women choose different
+roles in the family that affects the decisions they make about
+the time they spend, their occupations, their career tracks. I
+would love to get into more of these individual factors,
+hopefully during the Q&A, and I've submitted my written
+testimony that dives into that as well.
+ Now, fact No. 2, pay discrimination is illegal. Equal pay
+for equal work has been the law of the United States for nearly
+six decades. The Equal Pay Act of 1963, the Civil Rights Act of
+1964, they explicitly prohibit sex-based wage discrimination.
+And, yes, there may be instances of sex discrimination and,
+thankfully, American women have opportunities and means for
+redress.
+ Now, Congress has introduced new measures that are supposed
+to protect women from sex discrimination, and we already know
+that it's illegal. Unfortunately, these ideas can
+unintentionally hamper women's progress and work opportunities,
+particularly flexible work opportunities. Today's woman is
+increasingly able to carve out the kind of work life she
+desires because our economy is innovating new paradigms of
+employment.
+ I'm a mother, I'm a Black woman, I'm an immigrant, and a
+proud naturalized citizen of America. And it's because of
+flexible opportunities that I am able to do what I do every
+day. But one-size-fits-all government policies that may be
+well-intentioned would rob women of the ability to choose for
+themselves the best work arrangements that fit their
+individual, unique circumstances.
+ So, I leave you with a quote from a report on the wage gap
+prepared for the Department of Labor under the Obama
+Administration. This study leads to the unambiguous conclusion
+that the differences in the compensation of men and women are
+the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap
+should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action.
+Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The difference in the
+raw wages may be entirely the result of individual choices
+being made by both men and women.
+ Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
+ And, Dr. Mason, you are now recognized for your testimony.
+Dr. Mason.
+
+ STATEMENT OF C. NICOLE MASON, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE
+ OFFICER, INSTITUTE FOR WOMEN'S POLICY RESEARCH
+
+ Ms. Mason. Good morning. My name is C. Nicole Mason. I'm
+the president of the Institute for Women's Policy, a think tank
+focused on winning economic equity for all women and building
+women's power and influence in society. I thank you all for the
+invitation to testify today and ask that my written testimony
+and IWPR's report, Building the Future: Bold Policies for a
+Gender Equitable Recovery, be submitted for the record.
+ My first job at the age of 12 was selling newspapers door
+to door in my neighborhood. By 16, I was working in a food
+court. In college I worked as a waitress, and by 20, I had
+landed my first professional job at a local nonprofit
+organization. I have participated in the work force and earned
+a steady paycheck for nearly my entire life. I worked out of
+necessity and for survival, which is true for many women in the
+work force.
+ Today, I'm a single mother by choice and the primary
+breadwinner in my family. I will have to work harder and longer
+to achieve the same markers of financial success--home
+ownership, savings, and wealth--as most men.
+ Across the board, women earn less than men in nearly every
+occupation for which there is available data. The inverse is
+not true. When women enter male-dominated sectors, they do not
+out-earn men. If we do nothing, women will not reach economic
+parity with men until 2059. For women of color, it will take
+more than a century; 2130 for Black women and 2224 for Hispanic
+women.
+ This means women will have to work longer or hold multiple
+jobs to make ends meet and care for their families. It also
+means that if we do nothing, my daughter and my daughter's
+daughter will not see pay equity in their lifetimes.
+ Pay equity and loss earnings due to the wage gap have dire
+consequences for women. It is estimated that women will lose
+approximately $1 million over their careers due to the gender
+wage gap. For women of color, the loss is significantly higher.
+ During economic downturns and recessions, such as the one
+we find ourselves in now, lost earnings to the pay gap make
+women economically vulnerable and cause additional financial
+hardship because they have fewer savings to cover emergencies
+or basic expenses when there's an unexpected loss of income or
+employment.
+ Raising the wages of women to match those of comparable men
+would have a dramatic impact on their families. The poverty
+rate for all working women would be cut in half, falling from 8
+percent to 3.8 percent. The very high poverty rate for working
+single mothers would fall by nearly half, from 28.9 percent to
+14.4 percent.
+ In a recent poll conducted by IWPR, more than half of the
+women reported in this moment not having enough money to make
+ends meet or to pay their bills. More than 11 million women are
+people across the country are behind on rent and cannot afford
+food. A quarter of women have less than a thousand dollars in
+their bank account and about 15 percent have less than $400.
+This is the impact of the gender pay gap and the concentration
+of women in lower wage occupations.
+ The gender wage gap is real. It is not a hoax or the result
+of women's individual choices. We cannot explain it away. It is
+the result of a systemic undervaluing of women's contributions,
+skills, and talents to the work force and society. We can and
+should do better. This is a moment of public reckoning and
+revelation that would not have been possible a year ago. I hope
+that we can use it to propel us to reimagine a society,
+including workplaces and homes, that is more supportive of all
+working women and their families, including pay equity.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you so much and thank you to all
+of the members of the panel today and to my colleagues and the
+committee members.
+ Before I recognize myself, I want to note that I am usually
+fairly light on the gavel, but because we have a witness with a
+hard stop in today's hearing, I will be a little more strict.
+ Ms. Rapinoe, we appreciate your testimony. You and the
+entire U.S. Women's National Team have inspired so many, not
+only with your many wins, but with your demands for equal pay.
+The U.S. Women's National Team has definitively outperformed
+the men's team. The team has won four Olympic gold medals, four
+world cups, including one after you filed your initial
+complaint five years ago. Our entire country is so proud of
+you.
+ But players on the Women's National Team are still paid
+less than players on the men's team, some as little as $0.38 on
+the dollar. Why did you and your teammates feel it was so
+important to pursue this equality case?
+ Ms. Rapinoe. Thank you for the question. I think for us,
+first of all, it's just the right thing to do. You know, we've
+been in this equal pay fight long before our current lawsuit
+was filed. We tried to go through the EEOC route. You know, we
+tried to negotiate, and time and time again, we were told just
+simply no. The only thing that was going to be available was
+less and far less, to be honest.
+ So, this was the next best step that we could take,
+frankly. You know, I don't think anyone wants to go into a
+litigation willingly. It's not a fun thing, but we felt like,
+for our team and for the future of the sport, this is what we
+had to do. And I think throughout the process, we've realized
+that, yes, we're fighting for ourselves and, yes, you know, we
+have our outstanding lawsuit with the U.S. Federation, but
+we're with everyone. We're with so many women across the
+country. We are with so many women who aren't able to be in
+this committee hearing, who aren't able to get the ear of the
+media, who do not have the bright lights and the cameras on
+them all the time. We are looking to carry this torch for so
+many other women.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you. What do you think it means
+when professional female athletes at the top of their game and
+they are significantly outperforming their male colleagues are
+still not paid as much as their male equivalents?
+ Ms. Rapinoe. Well, I'm not here for it, frankly. We put in
+just as much work. We train just as hard. You know, we compete
+to bring trophies back to the United States, bring gold medals
+back to the United States. We do our jobs and do it in the best
+way that we possibly can. And for all of us who work so hard
+and see, you know, how hard the men's team work and see how
+hard our team's work and know that that's equal it's just
+unacceptable that we're still fighting for equal pay.
+ And I feel like, honestly, we've done everything. You want
+stadiums filled, we filled them. You want role models for your
+kids, for your boys and your girls and your little trans kids,
+we have that. You want us to be respectful, you want us to
+perform on the world stage, you want us to take the stars and
+stripes and the red, white, and blue across the entire globe
+and represent America in the best way possible, we've done all
+of that. And simply, there's no reason why we're underpaid for
+the exception of gender.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. I'm sure you've seen the stories about
+the appalling disparities between the women's and men's
+training facilities at the NCAA basketball tournament. I'd like
+to throw up a picture of this on the screen.
+ Now the NCAA has taken steps to fix the problem, but only
+after a public outcry and negative press attention. The fact
+that these disparities existed in the first place, I believe,
+is insulting and inexcusable.
+ What kind of message do you think this unequal treatment
+sends to these college athletes, Ms. Rapinoe?
+ Ms. Rapinoe. Well, first of all, for an organization like
+the NCAA, similar to U.S. Soccer Federation that's a nonprofit,
+it's just absolutely unacceptable. You know, to say that you
+value your student athletes and to say that, you know, this is
+the most important time of the year, we all know March Madness
+is very exciting. Probably everyone's brackets are blown up at
+this point with a few upsets, but, you know, to have your
+women's players or people who play on women's team show up for
+one rack of dumbbells is just completely unacceptable. Someone
+at some point thought to themselves that was OK. And you even
+saw, you know, they had a GoPro set up to film the whole men's
+gym being set up, you know. And for Mark Emmert and the
+executives at the NCAA, you just simply have to do better.
+ And I'll say, I mean, even the new weight room that the
+women's team has is still unacceptable. It's not to the
+standard needed to perform at that level and it's certainly not
+to the standard of equal that the men have.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. [Inaudible] testimony. You have
+elevated the issue of equal pay for men and women and are
+helping us to achieve closing that gap.
+ Dr. Mason, what conditions throughout a woman's career lead
+to such a shocking disparity in retirement? You have written
+about it. I did a report on it as vice chair of the Joint
+Economic Committee that so many more women are in poverty
+because of unfair treatment in their pay.
+ Very briefly, Ms. Mason.
+ Ms. Mason. Thank you so much. So, when I think about, you
+know, women's careers and what happens to them once they enter
+the work force, from the very beginning, women are at a
+distinct disadvantage, from negotiating equal pay for equal
+work, for in terms of, you know, lower wage workers not having
+benefits or paid sick leave or many other things we know that
+will make a difference, to a lack of affordable childcare,
+which, again, prohibits women from being able to enter the work
+force and work at their full capacity.
+ These things are very--these things are historic and
+longstanding and really impact a woman's ability, you know, to
+thrive in her career, but also earn equal--to be paid equally
+and fairly.
+ The idea that women make choices, you know, to step out of
+the work force, to off-ramp for children, or to--you know,
+don't want to work or value career satisfaction or flexibility
+over other things is simply not true. What we have to
+understand is that, although women are 50 percent of the work
+force, we have not accommodated women in any real way and made
+sure that once women enter their careers, are able to sustain
+them without fear of retaliation, discrimination, or sexual
+harassment. These are also very critical concerns.
+ When women experience discrimination or sexual harassment
+on the job, they are more likely to exit, and some and many
+women do so in silent-in silence.
+ So, in this moment, we do have an opportunity to examine,
+not only Federal and state level policies, but also examine
+workplace policies in the private sectors to make sure that
+they are fair, equitable, and provide women with the utmost
+opportunity to, you know, do their work and careers without
+fear or harm.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
+ I now recognize our next speaker, Congresswoman Nancy Mace.
+Congresswoman Nancy Mace, you are now recognized.
+ Ms. Mace. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Appreciate you again
+yielding to my time.
+ I want to start with you, Ms. Rapinoe. First, I just want
+to say that we're super proud of U.S. women's soccer being on
+the world stage as you and your teammates have been for a
+number of years. It is exciting and, of course, we don't often
+see parity in women's sports with men's sports, and that could
+be, as you said, in terms of event attendance or popularity.
+You've made women sports very popular, and so that's something
+that every American should be proud of. And so, I appreciate
+you being with us today and speaking on this important issue.
+But I only have five minutes, and so if you could just give me
+quick yes-or-no answers, I'd appreciate it. I want to make sure
+I can get through all of my questions, and I have questions for
+two folks who've given testimony today.
+ So, my first question is, does the U.S. Women's soccer team
+have union representation?
+ Ms. Rapinoe. We do, yes.
+ Ms. Mace. OK. And that union representation was present
+during the collective bargaining settlement back in 2017. Is
+that correct?
+ Ms. Rapinoe. Yes.
+ Ms. Mace. Great. And at the time the agreement was signed,
+you said, ``I think the Women's National Team Players
+Association should be very proud of this deal.'' Yet you and
+your teammates continue to pursue a Federal wage discrimination
+complaint. In the recent decision on the matter, the court
+found that U.S. Soccer Federation did not commit wage
+discrimination because it actually paid the women's team more
+than the men's team on both a cumulative and per game basis.
+ In fact, the court found the women's team earned about
+220,000 per game, while the men's team earned approximately
+213,000 per game. Yet you and your teammates argue that because
+you all earn smaller bonuses for the world cup related matches
+and other tournaments than the men, there's a gender wage
+discrimination.
+ Compensation is not simply wage, though. The 2017 agreement
+guaranteed pay for women regardless of whether they played or
+not. A perk the men's agreement does not have.
+ Is it fair to say being paid regardless of whether you
+played was important to the women's team and to the agreement
+in 2017?
+ Ms. Rapinoe. I think that's very much an oversimplification
+of the two contracts. I think, to be clear, the comments that I
+made then I thought us as players should be proud of the deal
+for what we were able to achieve, considering the
+discrimination that we were up against. We asked very clearly
+for the exact same contract and the same amount pot of money as
+the men received, and we were simply laughed out of the room,
+to be honest.
+ So, I think it's much of an oversimplification what you're
+suggesting. And there's many disparities within the men's and
+the women's team, and that the overall pot of money is far
+larger--excuse me--the overall available pot of money or
+possibility of the pot of money is much larger for the men's
+team. We earned close to them because we're capturing nearly
+all of the pot of money available to us whereas the men's team
+is not.
+ Ms. Mace. I have like two more minutes left. Your union
+that represented you all did such a bang-up job, they did so
+well you had to sue later because the deal was so bad, sounds
+like.
+ Ms. Rapinoe. We had to sue later because of gender
+discrimination.
+ Ms. Mace. The collective bargaining agreement expires this
+year. Do you anticipate being able to advocate for changes to
+better reflect your needs?
+ Ms. Rapinoe. We're always advocating for better changes, of
+course. Obviously, we have an outstanding lawsuit which will
+affect the collective bargaining agreement, but, yes, we're
+very much looking for a more fair deal, something that we did
+not get last time.
+ Ms. Mace. Thank you.
+ And now I'd like to ask a few questions of Ms. Onwuka. I
+appreciate your comments earlier about how it is illegal that
+sex discrimination is illegal under Federal law and that one
+size does not fit all. As someone who's broken many barriers
+all her life, I do understand, you know, sometimes that as a
+woman you have to work twice as hard to be seen as an equal.
+So, I appreciate your comments earlier today.
+ But, Ms. Onwuka, I want to ask whether you believe it's
+important for women to be able to negotiate their own work
+contracts?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Thank you, Congresswoman. Absolutely. I think
+we've seen in some of these studies that women tend not to
+negotiate, particularly they're not trained at a younger age to
+understand both what they're able to ask for, but also what
+some of the choices that they make in terms of career tracks is
+going to--how it's going to impact their overall earnings. So,
+when they're going into the negotiation table, you know, being
+able to have that kind of information is really what empowers
+them. And so absolutely, women need to--to be empowering and to
+overcome wage gaps, I think we need to ensure women know what
+they want and can value their time and their efforts
+effectively.
+ Ms. Mace. I agree. Women with the freedom to make their own
+choices, and the confidence and the courage to be able to ask
+for those choices too. Thank you.
+ I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back. The
+gentlewoman from the District of Colombia, Congresswoman Norton
+is now recognized. Congresswoman Norton.
+ [Inaudible] Are you having difficulties Congresswoman
+Norton? Do you have technical difficulties? You are now
+recognized.
+ Ms. Norton. This is Congresswoman Norton. Have I been
+recognized?
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Yes, you are recognized.
+ Ms. Norton. Madam Chair, you found a very useful way to
+recognize Women's History Month, and I appreciate that very
+much. It was my honor to enforce the 1964 Civil Rights Act long
+before I came to Congress, and please recall that gender was
+added only when a member of--a woman in Congress insisted that
+it be added.
+ This week, of course, we know that despite the progress
+that's been made, women still make $0.82 for every dollar that
+a man earns. That's why this week I'm reintroducing my bill,
+the Fair Pay Act, that would require that if men and women are
+doing comparable work, they will be paid comparable wages.
+That's maybe the only way we can close this gap.
+ Ms. Rapinoe, I'd like some indication of how the pay gap
+impacts you and your teammates. I mean----
+ Ms. Rapinoe. There we go. The classic mute.
+ You know, something that gets a lot of headline when we
+talk about equal pay is people's individual salaries or their
+individual compensation, and I think what's often missed is the
+investment in resources, whether that's on the business side,
+whether that's in TV and marketing, branding, ticket sales,
+whatever it may be.
+ The Women's National Team in so many ways is a business. We
+have a product, we're on the field playing, and we sell around
+that product. So, the lack of investment--and you saw it. We
+brought it up before with the NCAA women's March Madness
+tournament. With a lack of proper investment, we don't really
+know the real potential of women's sports. What we know is how
+successful women's sports have been in the face of
+discrimination, in the face of gender disparity, in the face of
+a lack of investment on virtually every single level in
+comparison to men.
+ So, for me, it goes much deeper than just what's hitting my
+bank account, which is a little bit light as always and we
+would love to fix that, but it's about investing resources into
+the team and into the business of the team so the next
+generation can actually fully realize their potential as a
+sport.
+ Ms. Norton. Thank you. When employers ask about a woman's
+salary history before making an offer of employment, we now
+know that that entrenched the systemic pay gap. Another bill
+I'll be introducing this week is the Pay Equity for All Act.
+That would prohibit this practice and freeing women from the
+patterns of discrimination that can follow them throughout
+their careers.
+ This question is for Dr. Mason, because I'm particularly
+interested in the research your organization has been doing,
+indicating that perhaps there is more to this story than just
+the size of the pay gap. For example, that report, which was
+published this month, shows that the wage gap actually shrank
+because pandemic job cuts forced low-income women out of the
+labor market.
+ Can you explain this finding?
+ Ms. Mason. So, I want to say something really very
+important. The pay gap has only closed by about $0.20 over four
+decades. So, it's moving at a really glacial pace. And as a
+result of the pandemic, you know, more than 5 million women
+have fallen out of the work force, many of them lower wage
+workers. And so what we need to understand about this work
+force is that, not only do they earn really low wages, but they
+also have very few benefits--job security, job flexibility, and
+all those things that we know makes a difference for working
+women.
+ So, the reason why it shrunk--and I want to be very clear.
+When we talk about the shrinking of the pay gap because of the
+pandemic, we're talking about a fraction of a cent, or one
+penny, and that is because those--the women earning the lowest
+wages fell out of the work force. I want you to imagine for a
+moment, if those women made much more or earned the value of
+what they contribute to our society, we would accelerate the
+closing of the pay gap. That's what we need to be focusing on.
+How can we raise wages for the most vulnerable workers and pay
+women what they are worth and their value of their
+contributions to our society and the economy?
+ Ms. Norton. Thank you very much.
+ And I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
+ The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Franklin, is recognized.
+Mr. Franklin.
+ Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Madam Chairman. And thank you to
+our witnesses this morning for coming and testifying to us.
+These are very important topics that we're discussing, and I do
+appreciate your time.
+ There's been a lot of focus politically on, not only equal
+pay for women, but also the equal rights amendment, violence
+against women, the treatment of women's veterans, gender
+equality, other topics, and I think these are all very healthy
+conversations to us to be having, so I'm glad you all are here.
+ My question really is for Ms. Rapinoe, and I know she's on
+a timeline here, so I did want to get to her. Specifically,
+with your position with respect to women's professional
+sports--and, first, I've just got to say, I have tremendous
+respect for what you and the women's world cup team has
+accomplished. You've represented our country well, and it's
+amazing to see our women compete at that level and really
+making America proud for your accomplishments. So, thank you
+for that.
+ I'm particularly interested, though, as the House passed
+the Gender Equality Act, the President now has issued executive
+order allowing transgender boys to compete in women's sport at
+the high school and college level, and now we're seeing states
+pushing back in various forms wanting to ban that. As a female
+professional athlete who has reached the absolute pinnacle of
+your profession, I would really be curious to hear your
+thoughts on how you see this developing and the potential
+impact that may have overtime for young women and their ability
+to reach the highest levels of those sports.
+ Ms. Rapinoe. Thank you for your question. First, just off
+of the top, as a member of the LGBTQ community, I firmly stand
+with the trans family and that whole community. And as someone
+who has played sports with someone who is trans, I can assure
+you all is well. Nothing is spontaneously combusting.
+ I think what we do know, though, is that people are
+continually marginalized by gender. We know that in equal pay,
+we know that in the workplace, we know that with LGBTQ. So, I
+think that we need to continue to fight for equality. We need
+to continue to protect people who have suffered from
+discrimination and inequality because of gender, and that
+really needs to be at the forefront. You know, I stand with my
+trans community, as we said, and with all marginalized people,
+especially people marginalized by gender.
+ Mr. Franklin. Well, I appreciate that. And I'm certainly
+not trying to pit one group against another. I just--you know,
+as a father of daughters who played soccer, and I see how that
+process, you know, the works, and when you think, you know,
+soccer itself is the most popular sport in the world. There are
+millions of both boys and girls that grow up playing that
+sport. And as the competition winnows, as you reach higher
+levels, there are fewer and fewer opportunities. And certainly,
+at the levels you compete at, there are very few opportunities
+for women.
+ Will it be fair, with such limited numbers of people
+available to play those sports, if women, biological women, are
+having to compete on the same field of play with biological
+males?
+ And not to make it a sexual gender kind of issue. I'm not
+trying to pit one group against another. I'm talking pure
+fairness on the ability to actually do the job. Because,
+ultimately, that could have an impact on pay as well if women
+are denied opportunities for things that are completely beyond
+their control.
+ Ms. Rapinoe. I mean, again, I think that's the reason that
+we want our kids to play sports is for all of the incredible
+aspects and character building and community building and self-
+confidence building that happens in sports. And to completely
+cut out an entire section of people, I don't think is
+appropriate.
+ Mr. Franklin. OK. But they would not be cut out because
+these same athletes are able to perform and play within sports
+by their biological designation. But does it seem to you to
+create an unfair advantage that biological males may be able to
+compete against biological females?
+ Ms. Rapinoe. I mean, I think for me, it would be unfair to
+continue to marginalize anyone by gender.
+ Mr. Franklin. OK. I see we're not going to get to a clear
+answer on that but thank you.
+ And I yield back, Madam Chairman.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ The gentleman from Massachusetts, Congressman Lynch, is
+recognized. Congressman Lynch.
+ Mr. Lynch. Thank you very much. I want to thank all of the
+witnesses for your willingness to come before the committee and
+help us with our work.
+ Dr. Mason, I'm a former union president. I represented the
+ironworkers here in Boston. I also represented--as a labor
+attorney, a union labor attorney, I had the opportunity to
+represent the wardrobe workers, which is a group of women.
+Mostly, I'd say about 85 percent of the members of that union
+are women.
+ And the one thing I want to point out, I know that your
+group, the Institute for Women's Policy Research, has done a
+lot of research around the role of unions and the impact on
+their membership, especially women and nontraditional employees
+in those unions, and the impact of the collective bargaining
+agreement on those workers.
+ At least in the unions that I have represented, once the
+union wage is established, everybody gets that. So, whether
+you're a man, a White male, a woman, a woman of color, a person
+of color, everybody gets that wage, after the contract is
+negotiated. Every single person gets the same pension.
+Everybody gets the same health benefits. Everybody gets the
+same vacation and leave.
+ So, I'm interested in hearing, Dr. Mason, how your research
+has assessed whether membership in a union is better for women.
+Are women in unions doing better than women who are working in
+a nonunion environment where the wage rates and benefits are
+less firm and not transparent?
+ Ms. Mason. So absolutely. Thank you for that question. So,
+women in unions fared better during the economic downtown. They
+had more job security. Their wages were stable. They had paid
+sick leave, benefits, so, yes. When we think about union
+membership and the importance it is, you know, how important it
+is for women, and also mitigating things like the pay gap and
+making sure that women are able to economically provide for
+their families, absolutely.
+ What we know also is that when we think about anti-pay
+secrecy laws which are on the books in many states, when we did
+a--in one of our recent reports, we found that most companies
+and states were not following anti-secrecy laws, but women who
+were part of a union, those organizations and companies did
+follow anti-secrecy laws, and wages were higher. So, there is a
+definite benefit to women who were a part of--members,
+especially in moments like this, economic downturn. It does
+provide women with more job security, and they are able to,
+again, take care of their families.
+ Mr. Lynch. Tell me, Doctor, I know you focus pretty much on
+the impact of the pandemic. Have you done research enough to
+make a broader assessment? You know, let's--not just in the
+pandemic but talking about generally, you know, whether we have
+an upbeat economy or a, you know, a downturn like we're
+experiencing now, what is the impact on women in the union
+environment versus being not in a union environment? How does
+that play out?
+ Ms. Mason. So, generally speaking, women who are part of a
+union earn higher wages, have better job protections, job
+security, and, again, have pensions, you know, retirement,
+investment accounts. So, in general, regardless of whether or
+not we're in an economic downturn or at this moment in the
+pandemic, women in unions are--unions are really critical to
+women's--building women's long-term economic security and
+success, especially when we think about women entering
+nontraditional, higher paying sectors. Unions are critically
+important to their success.
+ Mr. Lynch. OK. Thank you very much. I appreciate your
+research and your testimony.
+ And, Madam Chair, I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Fallon, is recognized. Mr.
+Fallon.
+ Mr. Fallon. Madam Chair, thank you very much.
+ You know, we live in a market-based, free-enterprise
+economy. And, generally speaking, the more that the central
+government, and in our case here today, the Federal Government
+meddles with the private sector and nibbles away at their
+liberty, the worse off the private sector is, both owners and
+employees alike, men and women, as well as the country as a
+whole.
+ We see this play out time and again, so we should and
+really need to tread lightly when discussing more regulation,
+rules, and codifying compulsory actions and behavior. The
+market should drive wages, and that's the free market. We've
+heard--not the government market, the free market. We've heard
+for years claims by some that American women on average, and
+we've heard different varying figures, $0.70 on the dollar,
+$0.82 on the dollar for what male counterparts make, but what
+many folks don't realize is that's not a fair comparison apple
+to apple, and we've heard a little bit about that today. It's
+simply comparing median earnings of all men and women
+classified as full-time employees. That's a misleading figure,
+and it's unfair not to take into account other factors.
+ For instance, the job itself, the skill level of the
+employee, the experience of the employee, the hours worked by
+that employee, and that's very interesting to note here is
+according to the Department of Labor in 2019, the average male
+worker put in 8.32 hours per day compared to the average female
+worker who logged in 7.73 hours per day. That alone accounts
+for a seven percent difference.
+ As a whole, female workers consider--tend to consider and
+choose flexibility, which can account for lower wages, while
+men, on average, gravitate to a higher degree, toward less
+desirable work hours, location, and occupation so long as it
+pays a higher wage.
+ Until I took this most recent job three months ago, this
+most recent government job, I had been an entrepreneur for 25
+years. My goal, like nearly all of the millions of other
+business owners across the country, was to hire the best people
+possible. I never gave a hoot about their ethnicity, race,
+gender, or sexual preference. Didn't care about it on an
+application. Didn't care about it when they became my employee
+because it was immaterial, and it was irrelevant.
+ Now, let's just put aside even the morality and the legal
+considerations, because pay discrimination has been illegal in
+this country since the Equal Pay Act of 1963 and reinforced by
+the Civil Rights Act of 1964. But even putting that aside, it's
+simply really bad business to discriminate in these callous
+ways. It's so incredibly difficult to find good employees, and
+to find great ones, it's even tougher.
+ My point here is that I'm no different than the other
+millions of business owners around the country. We all aim to
+find talented folks, hire the best people, and pay for
+performance. The cream rises to the top, as it were. And if
+these alarming disparities that some claim that exist, if they
+existed in actuality, let me ask you this question, think about
+this: Why would--you have to ask yourself, why would businesses
+not just hire all women? Because we know how talented female
+workers are in America. They are certainly equal and just as
+capable as their male counterparts.
+ If a business owner could get an employee to do the same
+job but only have to pay $0.70 or $0.82 on the dollar, $0.53 on
+the dollar, what have you, why wouldn't you do that across the
+board, hire your entire work force in that manner? Ownership
+would save a colossal amount of money on wages. Your labor
+costs would collapse, and your profits would rise.
+ But that doesn't happen. And why? Because this alleged wage
+gap is grossly overstated and exaggerated for political
+benefit. And any type of, quote, Paycheck Fairness Act would
+almost certainly result in fixed pay scales by companies, and
+that's just awful, the result of which we see, you know, the
+output in productivity crumbling as the best employees, both
+men and women, the one that work the hardest, work the longest
+hours, and work the smartest would suffer the most because many
+businesses would be unable to have the option to pay bonuses
+and give spot raises and properly reward and incentivize their
+highest producers. This also we saw play out, I believe, in
+Denmark when this happened over there.
+ So, this is about the free market and this is about
+liberty, and this is about what the market will bear in all
+things, whether it's sports or business.
+ So, thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts
+today, Madam Chair, and I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ The gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Connolly, is now
+recognized. Mr. Connolly.
+ Mr. Connolly. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairman. And let
+me begin by saying oh, my God. What we just heard requires you
+to forget a blatant history of exclusion and discrimination and
+direction with respect to women's careers. Ruth Bader Ginsburg,
+one of the most outstanding jurists in American history,
+couldn't get a job in a law firm because of her gender. That's
+not ancient history. That's not the market working perfectly.
+That's, in fact, an enormous failure to recognize talent. The
+opportunity cost of that for the first 200 years of the
+Republic is incalculable.
+ Mr. Fallon would have us believe the market will take care
+of it, and we don't need no stinkin' Federal regulations to
+interfere with that perfect market.
+ Dr. Mason, help me here with a little bit of history and
+this whole idea of the market is perfect and will self-correct.
+ Ms. Mason. So, it is right that we live in a market
+economy, but the market economy is not working for women and
+people of color, workers who are in sectors that are lower wage
+and lower earning.
+ So, one of the things I want to correct that was said is
+that this idea that if--you know, if businesses should just
+hire all women if they could get them on the cheap. That is
+just not how this works. We need to talk about labor market
+segmentation and the fact that there is not one sector that is
+dominated by women where they out earn men. So, let us just
+start there. And when men are--enter sectors that are dominated
+by women, they earn more. And, again, the inverse is not true.
+So, we need to understand that.
+ And the other thing I want to say and be very clear about,
+that this is not about individual choices. It is not about what
+I was able to do and pull myself up by the bootstrap. This is
+about the collective good, our values, and how we might be able
+to support the most vulner---economically vulnerable in our
+society. I don't----
+ Mr. Connolly. Dr. Mason, if I could just interrupt a little
+bit. Help me with history, though. Is it not true that whole
+professions were actually denying women until relatively
+recently? You could be a nurse, but you couldn't be a doctor.
+ Ms. Mason. Absolutely.
+ Mr. Connolly. You could be a legal assistant, but you
+couldn't be a lawyer.
+ Ms. Mason. Absolutely.
+ Mr. Connolly. You certainly couldn't be a jurist. I mean,
+we could go down through profession after profession that were
+absolutely closed to women, not by law, but by that free market
+Mr. Fallon thinks is so perfect.
+ [Inaudible] on that a little bit, and the harm that caused
+and the wage gap that created that was structural.
+ Ms. Mason. So, again, labor market segmentation and a lot
+of the gender disparities that you were speaking about have
+been institutionalized by practice, individual behaviors
+blocking women from holding particular jobs, and it had a has a
+detrimental impact to women's career advancement and the
+mobility in society. You are absolutely right, women have been
+barred from holding positions, not because they don't possess
+the skills, talents, and abilities, because people, men
+particularly, are telling them no and barring them from being
+in those professions. And what we miss out when we do that is
+talent, contributions, productivity. The economy suffers when
+we do that.
+ So, historically, we also have to remember that it wasn't
+until 1963 and 1964, that, you know, we passed the civil rights
+amendment which guaranteed equal protection under the law for
+workers. We're still battling around issues of pay equity and
+pay transparency. These are problems that are happening today.
+So, this idea that the market will take care of these things,
+we know it is not true. Even how we measure economic security
+and prosperity is outdated, and we should really think about
+how we are helping the most and protecting the most
+economically vulnerable.
+ Mr. Connolly. Thank you. I think you could even make the
+opposite case that the market actively worked against gender
+equality and opportunity for women. And I might say, in
+closing, that applies to our own profession, politics. Until
+very recently, women were discriminated against. They really
+weren't up to it, and they never got elected in large numbers.
+And we're working hard to try to redress that imbalance in our
+own profession.
+ So, the idea that the market is perfect and is self-
+correcting is false on its face, the opposite is true, and that
+is precisely why we need Federal Government intervention to
+help redress that imbalance.
+ I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ And the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Clyde, is now
+recognized. Mr. Clyde.
+ Mr. Clyde. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman Maloney. I
+appreciate all of the witnesses being here. Thank you for
+joining us today.
+ And, first, I must commend my colleague, Congressman Pat
+Fallon, for giving a fantastic description of what it is like
+to actually be a small business owner and hire employees and
+pay employees in the market. So, thank you, Congressman.
+ You know, as a small business employer for over 20 years, I
+have serious concerns about how many of the proposals discussed
+at today's hearing, including the Paycheck Fairness Act, could
+have a negative effect on businesses across the country if they
+actually became law. These proposals would not just tie the
+hands of small business when it comes to negotiating fair pay
+for employees, but it would also limit their ability to grow
+and expand operations.
+ Now, we are here to discuss equal pay, and while that
+notion sounds great at face value, the American people should
+know that when we talk about equal pay in the context of this
+hearing, we are really talking about doing away with choices,
+choices made and enjoyed by employers and workers alike. Yes,
+there may be a raw wage gap, as my Democratic colleagues have
+pointed out already, but when we adjust for factors such as
+hours worked, benefit compensation packages, and flexibility of
+schedule, that gap becomes much smaller, in most cases between
+2 and 10 percent, and that's because of choices made by
+workers, male and female alike.
+ You also have to look at the companies themselves. If they
+have different abilities to earn profit, then their abilities
+to pay their employees will be different. So, comparing wages
+within a company is one issue, but comparing wages between
+different companies is a completely different issue in and of
+itself.
+ So, my first question is for Ms. Onwuka. No. 1, do you
+believe the laws I just referenced, and that is the Equal Pay
+Act of 1963 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that protect
+women from gender-based pay discrimination in the workplace are
+adequate? A yes or no would be acceptable, please.
+ Ms. Onwuka. Congressman, yes.
+ Mr. Clyde. OK. Great. I agree with you in that. I'm a
+proponent of rewarding hard workers and high performance in the
+workplace. So, can you tell us more about why fixed pay scales
+would disincentivize work, if you agree with that?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Sure. I absolutely agree with that. When we
+look at what men and women value in the workplace, they value
+different things. And this is interesting. From a 2019 Pew
+survey, mothers significantly valued time off or working fewer
+hours compared to fathers who valued promotions. So, when you
+look at men and women, the choices that they make, and, you
+know, I've heard some different panelists talk about this is
+not about choice. It absolutely is, because I think when women
+have more flexibility to decide whether they want to pursue an
+opportunity that takes them out of the home for longer, maybe
+puts them on the road traveling much more, they may say, no,
+I'd actually rather maybe take a pay cut or stay in my current
+position. And then maybe a male would be willing to say, well,
+I want to provide more for my family, so I'm willing to be on
+the road much more. I'm willing to be on call as a lawyer, for
+example.
+ So, flexibility is absolutely one of those driving forces,
+particularly for many women in the work force. For every woman?
+Perhaps not, but for many women, and I think that's what's
+reflected in the choices they make and reflected in the pay
+gap.
+ Mr. Clyde. All right. Thank you. So, do you think it's fair
+to say that people are generally happier when their work is
+rewarded in different ways?
+ Ms. Onwuka. It's absolutely fair to say that. And when we
+look at independent contractors, for example, you talked about
+being a small business owner. There are millions of people who
+are freelancers, millions of people who don't--who are not
+employees, but they actually are their own bosses. Happiness,
+fulfillment, flexibility are the No. 1 reasons, particularly
+for women.
+ Mr. Clyde. Well, great. Thank you. Last, can you tell us
+how the free market penalizes employers who discriminate? As a
+small business owner, myself, I know that having, you know, the
+best employee I can possibly afford benefits my company, you
+know. So, how does the free market penalize employers who
+discriminate?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Absolutely. I mean, in particularly a tight-
+jobs market, it becomes increasingly harder for employers to
+retain good talent. So, if you start to discriminate, if you
+are paying a man and a woman, similar job, similar title, no
+other variables that are foreseeable, if you're paying that
+woman differently, she very well may leave. And if she's a
+higher performer, you have now lost an asset to your company.
+And so, when you expand that across the entire economy, you
+start to see that it's good business. It's good corporate
+social responsibility to be good to your workers.
+ Do we see that in every single industry? I would love to
+say yes, and if we can move toward that as a country. But
+overwhelmingly, I do think there are a lot of employers
+recognize that keeping high-quality, high-performing talent is
+important. And it's important for the bottom line because
+turnover is expensive, particularly in things like fast food
+and other industries.
+ Mr. Clyde. Oh, absolutely. I agree with you that turnover
+is very expensive. You know, you have to retrain, the cost of
+retraining, and employers don't want to do that. They want to
+keep their employees, so they want to pay them appropriately.
+Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
+ And my next question is for Ms. Rapinoe.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired, and
+Ms. Rapinoe has left to go to another meeting.
+ Mr. Clyde. OK. Well, thank you. I yield back, Madam
+Chairwoman.
+ Ms. Mace. Madam Chair?
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Pardon me?
+ Ms. Mace. Madam Chair, Mr. Connolly directly mentioned Mr.
+Fallon in his questions earlier. Can we yield 30 seconds to Mr.
+Fallon to respond, please.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. He did not call for a point of personal
+privilege.
+ The gentleman from California, Mr. Ro Khanna. Mr. Ro Khanna
+is now recognized for five minutes.
+ Mr. Ro Khanna, unmute. Is he here?
+ Mr. Fallon. Madam Chairwoman, with the technical difficulty
+there, I'd love to call for a point of personal privilege to
+respond.
+ Mr. Khanna. Madam Chair, am I recognized?
+ Chairwoman Maloney. After Mr. Ro Khanna. You are now
+recognized, yes, uh-huh.
+ Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ I just want to start by correcting the record about some of
+the misinformation about trans women's participation in sports
+and cite some of the data.
+ First of all, since 2004, the Olympics have had a policy
+that is trans inclusive. And guess what? Not one trans female
+has actually qualified, even at that level. So, this is just a
+totally manufactured concern. Yale University has done a study
+that actually says that higher testosterone levels do not
+provide competitive advantage.
+ And the third point, which is completely neglected, is that
+trans women face bullying. They face harassment. It actually is
+one of the biggest challenges to compete for trans women.
+ So, when we're going to have these conversations, I just
+hope we could have conversations based on facts, based on data,
+based on what the Olympics at the highest level are doing, as
+to what my state in California has done since 2013 and hasn't
+been an issue, and not engage in conjecture.
+ The second point, before I turn to the panel, that I want
+to emphasize, is this idea that--of the free market. The free
+market is what we define the market to be. If, as some of my
+colleagues suggested, that discrimination would not be in the
+interest of the free market, then what was the need for the
+civil rights law? Obviously, we needed the civil rights law
+because there was discrimination even with the market. And what
+we're talking about is not eliminating in any way the market.
+It's not against the market. It's saying that we need to define
+the market in a way that is going to promote dignity for all
+individuals because the current definition of the market, the
+current laws, are creating systemic inequality.
+ So, this is not a question of do you believe in the market
+or not. It's a question do you believe the market should
+respect the dignity of every individual.
+ My questions I want to focus on this--on the idea that
+women, as Kimberle Crenshaw's work has shown, are not a
+monolith, that we have intersectionality, that, yes, women face
+discrimination, but the class, race, and sexual orientation
+adds barriers. And I want to focus in particularly on trans
+women in my questioning.
+ If we could go to Dr. Mason. Can you please explain what
+factors have led to devastating economic outcomes for the trans
+community and what they mean for trans women specifically?
+ Ms. Mason. So, thank you so much for this question and for
+bringing Kimberle Crenshaw into the room, a leading
+intersectional scholar who allows us to understand that it is
+not only about gender but also the intersections of race,
+class, gender, sexuality, gender identity, and other markers of
+difference.
+ So, what we have to know that discrimination--we talk about
+gender discrimination, but when we talk about trans women, it's
+really important to know that there are multiple barriers to
+their economic security, which includes workplace
+discrimination, refusal to hire, and decreased earnings,
+especially as people transition. They see a marked decrease in
+earnings.
+ It's really important--and then if we look at Federal and
+state laws, we also have to know that many of the protections
+we have on the books, even the civil rights law, you know,
+discriminates or allows the interpretation of such laws to
+discrimination against trans women and individuals and
+communities.
+ So, when we think about the pay gap, what we--we don't have
+enough data to help us understand the magnitude of the problem,
+but we absolutely understand and know that trans women, trans
+people face insurmountable, in some instances, you know,
+barriers to economic security, including lower pay, lower
+wages, discrimination in the workplace, firing, not being able
+to receive any kind of legal remedies.
+ So, again, it is really important to provide a fuller
+context for this conversation even when we talk about payment
+and hiring and free market economy, understanding that
+different women are impacted differently in the economy and in
+the work force.
+ Mr. Khanna. Thank you for that, Dr. Mason. In fact, you're
+absolutely right; I mean, the human rights campaign found that
+nearly 30 percent of transgender individuals have been forced
+to take unpaid leave during the pandemic as opposed to just
+seven percent of the general population. That is more than four
+times as much the disparate impact on transgender women.
+ I guess I would ask you, what policies can the United
+States implement as part of the economic recovery to ensure
+equity for transgender women and, more generally, to consider
+Kimberle Crenshaw's paradigm-breaking scholarship on
+intersectionality? How should that inform our policy?
+ Ms. Mason. So, what we need to do is make sure that
+policies are representative and inclusive and not exclusionary
+to trans people, making sure that our Federal policies and
+laws, including the equal rights amendment, is gender inclusive
+and representative. You know, think about--thinking also about
+the ENDA, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, making sure
+that it is trans inclusive. These are all things that will go a
+long way into making sure that some of the challenges we see
+for trans women in terms of employment, as well as earnings and
+wages over time, we can mitigate those.
+ And the other thing I do want to lift and bring into this
+conversation and for the record is that 15 percent of trans
+people report making and earning $10,000 or less per year, a
+rate of poverty that is nearly four times that of the general
+population. And many report losing a job because of bias and
+report experiencing some form of workplace discrimination. So,
+we can let the market work, but we understand that the market
+is imperfect and that we need inclusive and representative laws
+to make sure that we can close some of these gaps that we've
+been talking about today.
+ Mr. Khanna. Thank you.
+ Ms. Poo, could you briefly explain the concept of, quote,
+chosen family, and how the pandemic has placed additional
+burdens on trans women who care for members of their chosen
+families?
+ Ms. Poo. Essentially, all of us have people in our lives
+who we care for. We have loved ones, and the definition who we
+care for and who care for us. The former first lady, Rosalynn
+Carter, said there's only four kinds of people in this world:
+People who are caregivers or will be caregivers, people who
+need care or will need care. And we have in our country an
+incredibly expansive and non-monolithic, pluralistic way in
+which we express family. And the ways in which we choose
+oftentimes who is considered family, who we care for and who
+will care for us, it's not necessarily just on the terms of
+biology.
+ And so--and we believe that it is very important that we
+have a very inclusive definition of family to support all the
+ways in which we are caring for the people that we love in our
+lives and they are caring for us.
+ Mr. Khanna. And has the lack of comprehensive paid family
+and medical leave programs disproportionately harmed trans
+women because of our exclusive definitions of family?
+ Ms. Poo. Absolutely.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired, but
+the gentlelady may answer the question.
+ Mr. Khanna. Thank you.
+ Ms. Poo. Absolutely. I think this is a moment to reset our
+definitions and our frameworks to be as inclusive as possible
+so that we leave no one behind in our economic recovery. As a
+group that represents domestic workers, a population of workers
+who was left out of the new deal explicitly excluded from the
+Nation Labor Relations Act and the Fair Labor Standards Act, we
+need to have a very close eye on who we may be excluding in our
+definitions of our economic policy moving forward, because
+there are generational impacts and inequities that will
+continue if we do not do so.
+ Mr. Khanna. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. OK. The gentleman's time has expired.
+ And in the spirit of fairness, the gentleman from
+Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman, is recognized. He can yield some time
+to Mr. Fallon. Our parliamentarian ruled there was no violation
+of decorum, the mentioning of the name was addressing--
+addressed in the substance. They were discussing substance, not
+a personal attack.
+ I now yield to Mr. Grothman.
+ Mr. Grothman. Right. And in the interest of fairness, I
+yield my first 30 seconds to Congressman Fallon's response to
+comments made earlier.
+ Mr. Fallon. Well, thank you, sir.
+ You know, our esteemed colleague, Mr. Connolly, took
+exception to my comments because of the history of sexism and
+discrimination in years past in these United States. He said
+that Ruth Bader Ginsburg entered the work force in 1959. My
+assertions and comments obviously would not have held true in
+1959, but, sir, they do in America in 2021. The free market
+isn't perfect, but it's a whole world better than a regulated
+central planning.
+ I yield back. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Mr. Grothman is recognized.
+ Mr. Grothman. Thank you.
+ I'll begin with a question to Ms. Onwuka. I hope I got that
+right. Are you familiar with a Harvard study in 2018 comparing
+people in identical jobs, the Massachusetts Bay Transit
+Authority, in which men took 83 percent more overtime hours
+than women and took 48 percent fewer unpaid workers off?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Congressman, yes, I am. I've read that study.
+ Mr. Grothman. It's an illuminating study. And I know, you
+know, there are people are going to maybe hate some of the
+people who work there for the choices they make. But do you
+want to give us those numbers again and what we can learn from
+them?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Well, I don't have it off the top of my head or
+in front of me, but just overall, some of the trends we saw,
+women tended to drive during daily--during the daytime rather
+than during the evening for their own security. Women chose to
+do longer trips rather than men doing shorter trips. And women
+just--you know, their choices around, you know, when they're
+working and the flexibility, they really scheduled it. They
+weren't working as much on the weekends and particularly
+overnight during those peak moments when obviously, for
+everyone who's ever taken Uber, you know, you can certainly
+earn a little bit more from all those partiers and club goers.
+So, you know, I think women are prioritizing flexibility, but
+also in that case, they're prioritizing their own safety and
+security.
+ Mr. Grothman. Right. And men in that study, correct, took
+83 percent of the overtime hours? So, whatever reason, both on
+the same job, men were more likely to grab overtime, right?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Yes.
+ Mr. Grothman. And so if we did a study of people in
+identical position, you know, riding the buses or subways or
+whatever we have in Massachusetts there, if you looked at that,
+you would say we have a problem. Some people would say we have
+a problem there with men making more money than women, even
+though women had made that choice and men had made that choice.
+It seems like some of the other witnesses hate people for that,
+and it seems like they want to make it against the law to make
+those choices.
+ What do you think about the idea that, you know, it should
+almost be against the law or there's something horrible about
+women not wanting overtime? Should we have to force the women
+to take the overtime, or how should we have to deal with that?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Well, frankly, I mean, I think it's
+paternalistic, frankly, to tell a woman what she should do,
+tell a woman what hours she should be driving. And just to
+clarify for a moment, I was thinking of a study related to
+women and men in the Uber driving, ride-sharing world, and
+you're referring to mass transit bus drivers. And I read that
+study as well, and I do think that there are some similarities,
+as you'd pointed out.
+ But just overall, I mean, I think what's important about
+where we are in 2021 is the fact that women have so many more
+choices than they did in 1963, 1964. And I think that's
+reflected in the growth of women entrepreneurs in this country.
+And so the idea we need to tell a woman what hours to work, to
+schedule her, or this idea that legislation, Federal
+legislation would somehow eliminate the pay gap overnight,
+whether that's gender-based pay gap, also layering on race and
+layering on gender identities, that's not going to happen
+because, again, individuals are sorting. Using economic
+terminology, they're sorting into the types of occupations
+they're interested in, and it's not just for pay, particularly
+for women. It could be flexibility. It could be fulfillment.
+And so, we have to respect the choices that women get to make.
+We should not be determining or telling them what choices they
+need to make.
+ Mr. Grothman. Right. And it is apparent from some of the
+other witnesses we have today almost the hatred against a woman
+who wouldn't want to work the overtime. And, of course, that's
+a decision we all have to make to work 40 hours a week, to work
+50 hours a week.
+ In the end, do you think maybe people, other witnesses up
+here, are going to have to work to the point where women are
+going to have no choice but to work overtime because they want
+in the future these studies to show men and women making
+identical amounts? Is that a danger out there?
+ Ms. Onwuka. I would hope not. Perhaps it is a danger. I
+don't think so, because people are making choices for
+themselves. You know, I don't think that it's possible. What I
+do think you're going to see is that when corporations, for
+example, are penalized for some sort of pay gap that's based on
+these, you know, misleading statistics, these just raw numbers,
+they will make decisions, H.R. decisions to say, well, I'm not
+going to negotiate with you as an individual for what you want.
+I don't want to have the government come down on me and bring
+the hammer. So, we've got to be careful that Federal law does
+not backfire on women in the work force.
+ Mr. Grothman. Right. I can see the day in which a company
+would say you've got to work overtime because I've got to make
+the form work out right for these diversity bureaucrats.
+ Thank you for your answers and thank you for giving me a
+couple extra seconds.
+ Ms. Onwuka. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
+ The gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin, is now recognized.
+ Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ Well, with that set of questions, I think we've arrived at
+an interesting place in the conversation. Everybody seems to
+agree that if a man and a woman are both doing the exact same
+job, and the woman is paid 20 percent less, it's against the
+law under the Equal Pay Act. And there are cases like that all
+the time.
+ But as one of our colleagues pointed out earlier, that may
+account for a small percentage, I think she said, 2 to 5
+percent. I think it was 2 to 5 percent of the wage gap. So,
+really, when we talk about these dramatic differences in what
+women and men make, it has to do with structural inequality
+within the work force. And Mr. Grothman has just offered the
+theory in that last colloquy that this is all about the choices
+that women make, the flexibility that women want to have, the
+fulfillment choices they're making.
+ It is interesting that with millions and millions of people
+in the work force, the flexibility and fulfillment choices made
+by women always seem to end up with women making a lot less
+than men. It never randomly seems to work out the other way,
+that the fulfillment and flexibility choices men seek end up in
+men making less money.
+ But I want to go to some of the people who actually study
+this, and I'd like to ask Dr. Mason this question: If we've got
+structural discrimination, that there's certain sectors of the
+work force, like childcare, elder care, other caring
+professions that are systematically underpaid, and this is
+associated overwhelmingly with women being in those positions,
+would we say that that's the just the market operating or is
+there something that we can do about that if we're interested
+in actually rewarding women equally and empowering them?
+ Ms. Mason. So, one of the things I want to say is that if
+we were really, truly talking about a market operating the way
+that it should, then care workers, elder care workers would be
+making much, much more. But because the sector is dominated by
+women, wages are depressed. And so, this is not simply about
+the market doing its thing, because we know that in a market
+economy, women are disadvantaged because of historic, racial,
+and gender discrimination.
+ And when we talk about choices, it's also important to
+remember that for many women, these are constrained choices.
+These are not choices with the full range of options. Women
+perform 30 percent more care work compared to their male
+counterparts. So, when you talk about overtime and you talk
+about women making choice to have more flexibility, what we
+have to understand, for many women it's really not a choice.
+And when we factor in women's unpaid labor, we're talking about
+billion--billions of dollars each year that disappears, you
+know, into the economy because women are not being compensated
+or losing out----
+ Mr. Raskin. I wanted to followup by going to Ai-jen Poo on
+the same question. You pointed out that when the National Labor
+Relations Act was passed back in the 1930's, that domestic
+workers were specifically excluded from the ability to organize
+under the Wagner Act, just as farmworkers were also roped off.
+And there were clearly both racial and gender dimensions to
+those decisions by Congress.
+ To what extent did those legislative decisions end up
+affecting or depressing the wages and benefits that were earned
+by, in this case, domestic workers over the succeeding eight or
+nine decades? Does that explain one--is that one of the reasons
+why domestic work is so poorly compensated today?
+ Ms. Poo. It absolutely is. In fact, the Fair Labor
+Standards Act that established the minimum wage also explicitly
+excluded both farmworkers and domestic workers. And those
+exclusions set the tone for the treatment of domestic work and
+care work and our law and policy for generations since.
+ Mr. Raskin. So, what legislative changes are you fighting
+for now?
+ Ms. Poo. We are currently fighting for a Domestic Worker
+Bill of Rights at the Federal level, legislation that is
+sponsored by Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, and will be
+reintroduced in May. We are also fighting for a big investment
+in our care economy overall as part of our jobs and recovery
+plan.
+ And this is really important because we have been talking a
+lot about infrastructure investments and how important it is,
+bridge, bridges, tunnels, broadband, absolutely. And I would
+argue that care giving, childcare, paid leave, home-and
+community-based services for the elderly and people with
+disabilities, and the work force that supports those essential
+needs on the part of working families are essential
+infrastructure in order to enable our economic recovery and our
+ability to get back to work. Care jobs are job-enabling jobs.
+ Mr. Raskin. Well, it sounds to me like the equal pay agenda
+you're describing is also a family values agenda because it's
+in an investment in the work force that cares for our families.
+ My time is up. And I thank you for your indulgence, Madam
+Chair. I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Davis, is recognized for
+five minutes.
+ Ms. Tlaib. Congresswoman Tlaib is now recognized.
+ Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Chairwoman. I really
+appreciate us doing this hearing. I think it's critically
+important, and I sincerely appreciate it.
+ I'd like to use my time today, though, to focus on our
+unique--the unique obstacles of many of my fellow women of
+color who must contend with systematic racism and sexism in
+particularly every aspect of their daily lives, which
+significantly impacts their access to education, housing,
+healthcare, and so much more.
+ For example, while Black and White women have fairly
+similar high school graduation rates, White women are about 10
+percent more likely to be able to access higher education.
+ This March, Chairwoman, there was a study called Black
+Womenomics which found that this gap is the result of
+disparities in school funding and equality--a quality
+education, explicit and implicit classroom biases, and access
+to fewer financial resources, again, not due to choice, but due
+to the systems that are in place that are holding back our
+Black women. And so, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the
+report the Goldman Sachs Black Womenomics study, if I may.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Without objection.
+ Ms. Tlaib. This education gap which begins with access to
+early childhood education is one of the biggest reasons that
+women of color make less than both White men and women on
+average. And, in fact, this intensifies the existing historical
+barriers to home ownership, which is something that's
+critically important to address wealth generation--wealth gap
+generations among people of color across the country, as well
+as the impact of redlining in racially motivated policies.
+ Black households are still 15 percent less likely to own
+homes than our counterparts, even when controlling for like
+income or education, age, and household status.
+ So, Dr. Mason, for the benefit of everyone here, could you
+explain how home ownership gap impacts the ability of women of
+color and their families to be able to obtain wealth or
+economic stability in our country?
+ Ms. Mason. So, what we're talking about is communaltive
+disadvantage, so what--and that just means the impact of
+historic policies that have discriminated against communities,
+particularly related to home ownership. So, like redlining,
+predatory lending practices, you know, not having access or
+earning wages to be able to afford for the down payment. All
+these things impact Black women and the Black community's
+ability to--for home ownership.
+ The other thing we have to know is that in 2008, for
+example, with the collapse, the previous economic recession,
+the foreclosure rate of Black women and Black families was
+extremely high, and that stripped whole commu---entire
+communities of wealth that they're never going to get back.
+ And in this moment during the pandemic, one of the things
+we did learn was that we needed to pause and have a
+foreclosure--excuse me--a moratorium on foreclosures and
+evictions. But what we don't know, for example, is the impact
+of those moratoriums once they are lifted. And what I'm--what I
+believe is that it will have a disproportionate impact on
+communities of color, homeowners of color, and will, once
+again, we'll see a stripping away of wealth.
+ Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Dr. Mason. You know, we know
+that women of color in our country are put at a huge
+disadvantage from the start because of various systematic
+racism and sexism structures, again, that have been set up to
+make it even more difficult for them to be able to thrive in
+our country. And I know, and I want to emphasize this, we don't
+need more studies to tell us that. We already have the data and
+the information.
+ What I do know is that as somebody that represents the
+third poorest congressional district, as somebody that has seen
+our state, the state of Michigan, lost more Black home
+ownership than any other state in the country, that we need to
+start looking at some of these structural changes, like the
+BOOST Act that would allow people that make less than $100,000
+to be able to get a tax credit directly and uplift about 45
+percent of people out of poverty. We need a living wage. We
+need to prioritize books in schools over bombs and submarines.
+You know, this is what we need to do is try to make sure that
+our budget is fitting those values and making it easier for
+every single person in our country to be able to access to
+thrive. These are the type of things that I know, we know, all
+of us know, that will help every single woman in our country.
+ And so I think it's very important as someone that is in
+this space, that I am bringing my own lived experiences, being
+a child of immigrant parents but also as a woman of Muslim
+faith, and in these spaces that I don't want to just be put in
+as a body to diversify the space. I also want to be able to
+help shape these policies, and I'm asking all of my colleagues
+to understand and listen. Listen to these lived experiences and
+understand what we're telling you is the truth. It is harder
+for women like us to be able to thrive in our country, and we
+need to change that.
+ And the reality is you all are deciding to silence us, to
+try to make us less credible in these spaces versus actually
+listening to us and making our country even better than it--you
+know, than it can because this type of racism and this time of
+silencing of women like us is not going to help us all thrive.
+ Thank you, and I yield.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you. Thank you so much.
+ The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Davis, you are now
+recognized. Mr. Davis.
+ Mr. Davis. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I want to thank you
+for this very informative hearing. And also, I want to thank
+all of the witnesses.
+ As a member of the Ways and Means Committee and as chairman
+of the Subcommittee on Worker and Family Support, I'm going to
+ask about the assistance programs that provide lifelines to
+low-income individuals and families. As women and women of
+color are overrepresented in the low-wage work force, access to
+these programs and the efficiency of them are particularly
+important.
+ The American Rescue Plan expanded the earned income tax
+credit and child tax credit so that more workers and families
+could benefit from them. The Center for Budget and Policy
+Priorities estimates that these policies will cut the poverty
+rate of Black children from 17.8 percent to 9.7 percent and the
+poverty rate of Latino children from 21.7 percent to 13.4
+percent. Other studies have concluded that overall, child
+poverty could be cut in half. The Center has found that 497,000
+personal healthcare workers and 474,000 childcare workers would
+benefit from the child tax credit expansion.
+ Ms. Poo, let me ask you, how is additional assistance for
+children important to strengthening the care industry
+infrastructure and supporting the workers in that industry? And
+should Congress consider structural changes that extend these
+policies beyond the duration of the coronavirus pandemic?
+ Ms. Poo, would you--thank you.
+ Ms. Poo. Thank you, Congressman Davis, and I'm honored to
+have you as my Congressman. And I cannot overstate the
+essential nature of the measures to address child poverty and
+support our Nation's children that were a part of the American
+Rescue Plan. It is an absolute game changer.
+ If you take domestic workers who are providing care in our
+care economy as their profession, the majority of them are
+primary income earners for their families and the majority are
+also mothers of small children, and they will benefit from
+these temporary measures. What they've been given with the
+rescue plan is essentially a life preserver, and what they need
+is a boat and a path to reach the shore.
+ And though we do need to make these measures permanent, and
+we need to look at how we boldly invest in childcare, in paid
+leave, in home and community services, including the ability to
+raise the wages for the care work force so that we can sustain
+the workers who work in this economy.
+ There are high rates of turnover in the care work force
+because the wages are so low. We often lose some of our best
+caregivers to other low-wage service professions because they
+can earn a better--they can better make ends meet. There are
+massive labor shortages in home-and community-based services.
+People with disabilities and their families, older people are
+waiting for services, and we cannot offer them because there
+isn't enough funding in the system and because the workers are
+underpaid and cannot sustain doing this work.
+ So, there's a huge amount that we need to do in order to
+secure our care infrastructure to enable economic recovery, and
+the American Rescue Plan is a really important step. It really
+points the way forward for us.
+ Mr. Davis. Thank you so very much for your expert
+testimony.
+ And I want to thank all of the witnesses, Madam Chairman.
+And I appreciate the fact that this hearing demonstrates that
+we can't just deal with the pandemic in terms of a response,
+that we need cures that go far beyond the pandemic. And I trust
+that the Congress will understand that gaps in pay for women,
+the time has simply come where it can no longer exist.
+ And I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back. Thank you
+very much.
+ The gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Wasserman Schultz, is now
+recognized.
+ Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you,
+Madam Chair.
+ For many working mothers, the pandemic added new childcare
+demands that forced them to step back from the workplace, or
+really even leave it altogether. In fact, since the start of
+the pandemic, women saw a net loss of more than 5.4 million
+jobs. As many as one in four women reported becoming unemployed
+during the pandemic attributed it to a lack of childcare,
+according to one analysis. That was twice the rate reported by
+men.
+ Ms. Poo, how has the strain of childcare demands during the
+pandemic pushed working moms out of the workplace?
+ Ms. Poo. Working moms in the pandemic were simply unable to
+manage the impossible choices before them, to figure out how to
+work and take care of their children who were home from day
+cares that were closed, schools that were closed, managing
+online learning while trying to work remotely, if that was an
+option for them, and it was simply too much to bear. And the
+truth is, is that our lack of support for caregivers, for
+working moms, for family caregivers coming into the pandemic
+was already incredibly tenuous. It was already unsustainable.
+ What happened with the pandemic was essentially it made it
+completely untenable for huge numbers of women, especially
+women of color, and so it's the straw that broke the camel's
+back. And now we're back at 1988 levels of women's work force
+participation. We've got to address this if we are to recover
+from this pandemic.
+ Ms. Wasserman Schultz. There's no question about it. 1988
+levels is the year I graduated from college, so that is
+basically my entire adult life. And I'm the founder of the
+informal ``Moms in the House'' caucus. We have a record number
+of women in Congress with school-aged children, and I'm
+concerned that if Congress fails to take bold action to address
+this, that we're going to have many more mothers that are
+permanently forced out of the workplace. So, thank you for your
+feedback.
+ Dr. Mason, what kind of barriers do mothers face when
+trying to reenter the labor force?
+ Ms. Mason. Well, what we know is that unless we're able to
+get the pandemic under control, which we're working really hard
+to do, and schools open and day cares open, women will not be
+able to reenter the work force in any significant way. And so,
+barriers that women face to reentering the work force is care--
+we've already talked a lot about that--but also the
+predictability of being able to search for a new job.
+ If you don't know when schools are going to reopen, if you
+don't have a date--available day care
+ [inaudible] you're on a wait list, it makes it really hard
+to predict or apply for jobs or accept a job because you just
+don't know. It's just so unpredictable.
+ The other barriers that women face it's the idea that there
+will not be a one-for-one recovery for those jobs that have
+been lost, so some women will have to enter new sectors all
+together. And so, there is a real need for education and
+training in this moment and making sure that women have the
+economic supports they need while they receive training and
+also so that they are able to take care of their families.
+ Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you. Really, in order to get
+our Nation's economy back on track, we have to address
+America's childcare crisis as far as part of pandemic recovery.
+The American Rescue Plan, thankfully, made serious headway in
+easing the gap that our childcare infrastructure has by
+providing $40 billion to help support families and providers.
+The historic expansion of the child tax credit helped so many
+low-income women and families that will finally be lifted out
+of the poverty and receive long overdue relief. But we have to
+gain a multipronged approach to support families so they can go
+back to work and send their children back to childcare.
+ One additional step is enacting the Childcare for Working
+Families Act, which I'm proud to have joined with Chairman
+Bobby Scott in introducing last Congress. And that would make
+childcare more affordable across the United States and foster
+the development of a more robust childcare work force.
+ I can tell you as a mother of three children who are well
+beyond childcare age now, the sticker shock that you face when
+you are trying to make sure that you can return to work and be
+able to afford the huge percentage of your income, particularly
+as a woman, that childcare usually costs is a massive obstacle.
+And so many families and couples have to decide whether it's
+worth it to actually have their--the mother usually go back to
+the labor force rather than stay home and not have that huge
+childcare bill eat into their overall income. So, thank you so
+much.
+ Madam Chair, thank you for doing this very important
+hearing today, and let's hope this is one of the last equal pay
+days.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you.
+ The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Donalds, is recognized for
+five minutes. Mr. Donalds.
+ Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ Panelists, thank you so much for being here with us this
+morning. I want to get right to it. I don't want to get into a
+bunch of, you know, leading speeches. But, Ms. Onwuka, I've got
+a question for you.
+ You know, obviously the pandemic has created major issues
+for everybody across the country, including women. We've seen
+massive losses in jobs. We've seen communities shut down. We've
+seen schools close for far too long, quite frankly, which has
+actually led to a lot of families not being able to return to
+work or being put in a tough place with respect to are they
+going to, frankly, watch their kids at home or be able to
+rejoin the labor force. And these things have occurred for a
+multitude of reasons that go far beyond, you know, what my
+colleagues want to talk about, which is what they perceive to
+be discrimination against women.
+ My question for you specifically is, do you believe that
+pay gaps as they exist are based solely on sex discrimination
+or do you believe that there are other nuances that impact
+this?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Congressman, thank you for your question. I
+absolutely do believe that the pay gap is driven by other
+factors. A number of controllable factors when you control for
+those things, everything from your occupation. We've heard
+about, you know, women not earning--dominating certain sectors
+and still not out earning men in those sectors that they
+dominate. Well, when you look at the distribution of where
+women are in those sectors in an occupation, for example, when
+you look at nursing, for example, male nurses earn more than 18
+percent than female nurses. Why? Well, not surprisingly, they
+are in the better, higher paying specialties, they're working
+longer hours.
+ So, when we talk about all of these different factors--
+hours, occupation, time out of the work force--they all layer
+together to contribute to that pay gap. And I hope that comes
+across in today's discussion and it's not just all about the
+gender and even racial discrimination.
+ Mr. Donalds. Let me ask you a followup question to that. Do
+you think that any of the new entitlements that, you know, were
+put into whatever that bill is we passed two weeks ago, the
+coronavirus bill, whatever they want to call it, do you think
+that any of those new entitlements are actually, you know, ease
+these burdens or do you think it's just going to paper over the
+burdens that already exist and the disparities that already
+exist based upon the other factors that you cited?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Well, I think certain people will absolutely
+feel a little bit more in their pockets if they are already
+receiving those entitlements. But when you're talking about
+individuals who, you know, are not direct beneficiaries, they
+want to get back to work. They're not interested in
+necessarily, you know, becoming dependent on government
+entitlements. They're looking for, you know, an open economy in
+their state and their city that allows them to regain the work
+force, whether you're talking about a service--a person in the
+service industry, whether you're talking about someone in the
+hotel industry.
+ While we appreciate direct targeted aid, which it's
+questionable if the recent package was, but that's temporary.
+What we need is a robust economy that generates opportunities
+of different kinds that meets the unique interest and
+situations of certain people. Not everybody wants to work a 40-
+hour week. Not everyone wants to work in a physical location.
+Some people want to work from home. Some people don't even want
+to be employees, and they're not interested in unionization
+either. So, I think we need an economy that generates those
+types of opportunities, a breadth of them.
+ Mr. Donalds. Thank you for that.
+ In the rest of my time what I would state is that, like I
+said, the pandemic has been something that's been highly
+impactful to all people in our country, all socioeconomic
+levels of our country. But let's be very clear: If the local
+school is closed and your kids are school age, like my children
+are, it makes a major impact into what happens into the working
+lives of the families that have to care for those kids. I've
+heard that from members of my own community, my constituency,
+where it's real issues about can the kids go back to school.
+That has major impacts.
+ I would also say that what we're also witnessing, as
+destructive as the pandemic has been to the economic lives of
+so many Americans, including women, especially women of color,
+is that the economy's also transforming. We are seeing that a
+lot of companies are now deciding to go to hybrid schedules and
+hybrid calendars.
+ We are seeing that there are companies who are trying to
+think about are they actually going to continue having office
+hours for 40 hours a week or more, because they've realized
+that they've not missed a beat through the pandemic in the
+white collar professions. And so I think what we're going to
+see through the free market is a move that gives more people
+the flexibility to continue to grow--to go up the economic
+ladder in spite of the family decisions that exist, in spite of
+some of the cultural issues and community issues that do exist.
+ So, with that, I'll yield back the rest of my time. But I
+will say I'm not sure that Federal legislation is necessary to
+do what the free market is going to take care of on its own,
+like it typically does.
+ I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ The gentleman from Vermont, Mr. Welch, is now recognized.
+Mr. Welch.
+ Mr. Welch. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
+ First of all, I want to really thank the witnesses, who I
+think have been incredibly helpful in their clarity on this
+really important issue. And it seems to me there's really two
+things that have come out here. One is that there is unequal
+pay, obviously. And No. 2, that it's not just about a choice,
+and it's not even just about employers who want to pay as low
+as they can. That's not necessarily the case. It's a question
+of what the choices are that are realistically available to
+women who bear the major responsibility of childcare and home
+care.
+ And I want to ask Dr. Mason whether--in Vermont, we have 91
+percent--we have the closest men and women getting equal pay.
+It's 91 percent for women, and that adds up to $5,000 a year on
+our average wages, which is real money. But in the pandemic,
+we've had many more women who have left the labor force and not
+been able to come back, and particularly women who have
+childcare responsibilities with children.
+ So, what I'd like you to do is answer some of these
+questions that have been raised, mostly from my Republican
+colleagues, about the choice and this question of how is it
+possible for a person to have choice if their options are
+limited because of inadequate day care or family leave or other
+things that should be, in my view, governmental policies?
+ Dr. Mason?
+ Ms. Mason. Yes. So, I think you're absolutely right,
+Congressman Welch. These are constrained choices. They're not
+true choices. They are limited choices that women have.
+ During the pandemic--I am, you know, a single mom. I work
+40 to 50 hours a week, and also responsible for home schooling
+my children. I feel very fortunate to be able to work from
+home----
+ Mr. Welch. By the way, interrupt, God bless you that you've
+managed to do that. You have got a job.
+ Ms. Mason. You know, but the truth of the matter is, is
+that this burden, this--and I don't want to call it a burden,
+but this experience right now in the pandemic, it is the
+experience that many women have been, you know, juggling before
+the pandemic, and
+ [inaudible] responsibility has only increased during the
+pandemic.
+ And so, again, women spend 30 percent more care--you know,
+have 30 percent more care-taking responsibilities in their
+families compared to men. And so, when schools close, day cares
+close, the expectation is that women will take on that
+additional work and burden. And because of the pay gap, when
+families are making decisions about who should leave and who
+should stay in the work force, if they have a two-person income
+household, it's the person who makes the least. But that's not
+fair. It's a choice that women and families shouldn't have to
+make.
+ Mr. Welch. Thank you. Thank you. You know, in Vermont, we
+are having a real debate in the state legislature about paid
+family leave, and one of the concerns that's raised by business
+is who's going to pay for it. I think that's a legitimate
+concern. But the private market is not going to pay for it, and
+that seems to be a theme on some of my colleagues on the other
+side that leave this to the market, but, in fact, the market
+doesn't pay for elementary education.
+ You know, we've made certain decisions as a society that
+should be socialized about provision, public education.
+Obviously, the defense of our country.
+ Is paid family leave something--I'll ask Ms. Poo--that
+should, in fact, be socialized, if we took a step toward that
+with the provisions that were in the American rescue package?
+ Ms. Poo. I believe absolutely it should. I am a believer
+that when the market can solve a problem, it should. And when
+it can't, the government--that is the role of government. And
+when we have collective shared needs that are about the
+fundamental health and well-being of society and our families,
+we have to ensure that these challenges get solved.
+ And all of us working have families, and most children are
+growing up in households--70 percent of kids in this country
+are growing up in households where all the adults in the
+household work outside of the home. So, in that instance, we
+need to invest as a government in our caregiving programs and
+policies in a totally different way for the 21st century.
+ Mr. Welch. Thank you very much. My time is expired.
+ I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Johnson, is now recognized.
+Mr. Johnson.
+ Mr. Johnson. I thank the chair for holding this hearing.
+And I appreciate the testimony from today's witnesses.
+ To quote sociologist Jessica Calarco, quote: ``Other
+countries have social safety nets. The U.S. has women,'' end
+quote.
+ Here on Equal Pay Day, I'm particularly concerned about the
+consequences of the gender pay gap for working mothers and
+families and the continued discrimination against women who are
+also mothers.
+ Now, Ms. Onwuka, I appreciate your testimony today. You've
+stated that mothers make less than fathers because mothers
+favor time off, whereas, men don't take time off. And that time
+off makes women happy and feel a sense of fulfillment, and men
+get their kicks by doing overtime, pretty much is what you're
+saying.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus, can you respond to that notion, please?
+ Well, if Ms. Carolus is not available, how about you----
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. I'm here. Would you----
+ Mr. Johnson. OK, please.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. For one clarification, would you just
+repeat that part about her point?
+ Mr. Johnson. Well, yes. You making me spend my time now.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Sorry.
+ Mr. Johnson. All right. But, look, Ms. Onwuka is saying
+that women like to take time off because, you know, it's a
+matter of choice for them and they prefer to take care of their
+children; whereas, husbands tend to not take time off because
+they want to make some overtime.
+ What is your response to that?
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Well, choice requires power, and women
+are under an incredible amount of constraint to fulfill their
+gender norm role to serve the family, to sacrifice themselves,
+and oftentimes they're not making as much money anyway compared
+to if they have a male partner in the relationship. And so,
+it's just logical, it's rational under these constraints to do
+that. It's not because it's a personal preference or it's
+advantageous necessarily.
+ Mr. Johnson. So, all of that nonsense about fulfillment and
+sense of happiness and having to do this, you would not agree
+with that, correct?
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. I would not agree with it as----
+ Mr. Johnson. OK. And let me move to my next person. Thank
+you.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Thank you.
+ Mr. Johnson. Ms. Onwuka, do you know who Lilly Ledbetter
+is?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Congressman, yes. And I would like to respond
+to your mischaracterization, if possible, of what I said.
+ Mr. Johnson. And you're familiar with the fact that Ms.
+Lilly Ledbetter was working at a Goodyear plant down in
+Alabama. She was an area supervisor. There were 15 males doing
+the same job as she. She had more seniority than anybody, and
+she made thousands of dollars less than what her male
+counterparts were making.
+ Do you think that's fair?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Sir, I'm not going to go back and talk about
+Lilly Ledbetter, because I understand there is Federal law----
+ Mr. Johnson. OK. Well, then let me ask you this question.
+Do you think that there should be Federal law that guarantees
+that women performing the same work as men receive equal pay as
+men?
+ Ms. Onwuka. I believe we have that law, those laws on the
+books, sir.
+ Mr. Johnson. Well, why would this happen to Ms. Lilly
+Ledbetter?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Because, in practice, different companies do
+different things, which----
+ Mr. Johnson. Was it the free markets that caused that to
+happen or was it government that caused Ms. Lilly Ledbetter to
+not be paid equal pay for equal work?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Well, you know, it's unfortunate that there are
+people who harbor discrimination potentially, and thank
+goodness that we have the law that provides us with means of
+redress to adjudicate those issues.
+ And, by the way, some of the data that I was referring to
+earlier, sir--would you allow me to respond?
+ Mr. Johnson. Shouldn't there be Federal laws--well, yes,
+I'd like for you to respond to my question. Shouldn't there be
+Federal laws to protect women to ensure that they receive equal
+pay for equal work?
+ Ms. Onwuka. And, sir, I've responded that we have Federal
+law that ensures that you cannot be paid differently based on
+gender discrimination.
+ Mr. Johnson. Why does this keep happening then?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Please repeat your question.
+ Mr. Johnson. Why does this keep happening?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Well, you know, I think we need to empower
+women, No. 1, to seek redress when they are not compensated the
+way that they should be. We have an entire Federal agency that
+does that. And then we also need to talk about education. And I
+appreciate and agree with a lot of my colleagues that, yes,
+education is willful for many women, particularly kids that
+look like you and me. And that's why I advocate for school
+choice, so that they can get out of the failing public school
+system and into maybe other options that would give them an
+advantage and an opportunity and expand their horizons and open
+them to different ways of earning greater potential.
+ Mr. Johnson. So, we should let the free markets take over
+our public-school system.
+ And with that, I yield back. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ The gentlelady from California, Ms. Porter, is recognized
+for five minutes.
+ Ms. Porter. Thank you very much.
+ Dr. Mason, I wanted to talk to you about policies that harm
+women, specifically that hurt single mothers. The American
+Rescue Plan expands the child tax credit, correct?
+ Ms. Mason. Yes, that is correct.
+ Ms. Porter. And how much does it increase the credit by?
+ Ms. Mason. It increases the credit by $3,600 for children
+under the age of 6 and $3,000 for others, for other ages.
+ Ms. Porter. Yes. And it would lift about 4.1 million
+children above the poverty line, cutting the number of children
+in poverty by more than 40 percent. That's a conservative
+estimate. Is that right?
+ Ms. Mason. That is right.
+ Ms. Porter. But the tax credit, the child tax credit, has
+two different income cutoffs, right? One for married couples
+and one for heads of household.
+ Ms. Mason. Uh-huh. Right.
+ Ms. Porter. And who typically files as heads of households?
+How do single parents of young children typically file? What is
+their tax status?
+ Ms. Mason. Single mothers have--single mothers are more
+likely to file as heads of households.
+ Ms. Porter. Heads of household?
+ Ms. Mason. Yes.
+ Ms. Porter. Heads of households have a different cutoff for
+the child tax credit than married couples who have children?
+ Ms. Mason. Yes. That's right.
+ Ms. Porter. So, I want to break this down. A single parent
+making more than $112,500 a year starts to lose the child tax
+credit; whereas, a child in a married couple doesn't start to
+lose that credit until their combined income is more than
+$150,000. Is that correct?
+ Ms. Mason. That is correct.
+ Ms. Porter. So, to quote a law review article, Beyond Head
+of Household: Rethinking the Taxation of Single Parents, this
+discrepancy--quote: This discrepancy means that unmarried
+parents with the same income receive a smaller credit per child
+than do married parents with income in the same range.
+ Is the cost of food for the single parent's child any less?
+Do children in single parent families eat less?
+ Ms. Mason. No.
+ Ms. Porter. How about the cost of school supplies,
+uniforms, books, is there a discount for single parents?
+ Ms. Mason. No. I wish there was, in fact.
+ Ms. Porter. Me too. And most importantly, would the cost of
+childcare be any less for the child of the single parent?
+ Ms. Mason. No. In fact, it consumes more of single parent's
+income.
+ Ms. Porter. Because they don't have anybody else to take
+care of the child. If they were going to work, they need to
+have childcare that covers the full hours that they're working.
+So, and yet the tax credit treats that family differently. I'd
+like to call this the single parent penalty, but it's really
+the child in a single parent household penalty. The person hurt
+here is the child. And because we penalize single parents, we
+penalize their children. I think this is an outdated backward
+policy that needs to change.
+ Dr. Mason, one final question, would fixing this penalty,
+bringing these two different kinds of families, both with
+children and the cost of raising a child born equally among
+them, would it help women and children? Would it help bring
+women into the work force? How would it help support our
+economic recovery, if it would?
+ Ms. Mason. So, first of all, there's no reason for this
+discrepancy in terms of phasing out for single parents. And it
+would definitely help go a long way toward helping us to
+rebuild our economy, supporting those women who have been most
+disproportionally impacted in this moment. Women who are
+primary wage earners in their families. It would definitely
+help to bring more women back into the work force.
+ And I have to point out that this is direct money into the
+pockets of working women and families, and what we have to know
+is since 1996, the social safety net has all but disappeared,
+and less than three percent of families receive any kind of
+cash assistance. So, this is a moment where we can't afford to
+be making these arbitrary cuts and decisions about who should
+be receiving support and care.
+ Ms. Porter. Absolutely. I agree. I think the time to get
+rid of this differential treatment for children depending on
+what kind of family they live in is long overdue. The result
+here is we're penalizing children rather than helping children
+in all families equally. So, I strongly support removing the
+single parent penalty and making sure that we're helping every
+single child get that benefit.
+ You know, it's interesting, Dr. Mason, I have asked the
+Ways and Means Committee, I've asked the Joint Committee on
+Taxation, I've asked on the Senate Finance side, I've--someone
+put this question to Jared Bernstein at the Council of Economic
+Advisers, and not one person has been able to give me a
+justification for why we discriminate against children in
+single-family households this way. And I think it starts, for
+me, to be reminiscent of longstanding efforts in the tax policy
+to control families and define what is a good and worthy
+family.
+ With that, I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
+ The gentlewoman from California, Ms. Speier, is recognized
+for five minutes.
+ Ms. Speier. Madam Chair, thank you so much for holding this
+hearing today on Equal Pay Day.
+ You know, there's that old adage, you can put lipstick on a
+pig, but it's still a pig. And I think the script that my
+colleagues on the other side of the aisle are reading from is
+one that is, in all respects, probably laughable. Because for
+those of us who have been single parents, as Ms. Porter has
+just pointed out, there is great discrepancy in the law as to
+how those children are treated.
+ Let me ask Ms. Onwuka, who are the biggest donors to--I
+presume you're from a nonprofit. Is that correct?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Yes, Congresswoman.
+ Ms. Speier. And who are your biggest donors to your
+nonprofit?
+ Ms. Onwuka. I actually don't know. I just know that we are
+supported by many Americans across the country who believe in
+what we're talking about and what we're fighting for.
+ Ms. Speier. You're the director, so how would you not know?
+ Ms. Onwuka. I'm the director of the Center for Economic
+Opportunity, which is going to be launching within the next two
+weeks, but I'm not the executive or the president of this
+organization.
+ Ms. Speier. And who is?
+ Ms. Onwuka. I think that was misstated earlier in the
+introductions.
+ Ms. Speier. And who is?
+ Ms. Onwuka. That's Carrie Lukas.
+ Ms. Speier. OK. All right. I think it's really important
+for us to know where the funding comes from those who speak to
+us on both sides of the aisle.
+ Let me move forward. My colleagues across the aisle like to
+argue that the gender wage gap calculated by data from the
+Census Bureau is a myth or a fairy tale concocted by the
+liberal media. They argue that the $10,000 difference between
+men's and women's earnings is due to women's choices. I mean,
+it's so offensive to me to hear that, as if being pushed out of
+your job because of a lack of paid leave or reasonable
+pregnancy accommodation or sexual harassment is somehow a
+meaningful choice.
+ I'd like to remind my colleagues that the wage gap persists
+regardless of industry, occupation, or educational level. In
+fact, across all industries, women are paid less than men.
+Women are even paid less than men with lower levels of
+education. Among full-time, year-round workers, women with
+associate degrees are paid less than men with high school
+diplomas, and women with master's degrees are paid less than
+men with bachelor's degrees.
+ One prominent study that looked at the causes of wage gap
+examined factors such as occupation, industry, education, union
+status, region, and race found that 38 percent of the wage gap
+was still unexplained and could be attributed to
+discrimination. That's why the Paycheck Fairness Act is
+something that we are supportive, because the Equal Pay Act has
+no teeth. Ask the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg about that.
+ Dr. Mason and Ms. Poo, what impacts does a lack of paid
+family leave and affordable childcare have on the gender wage
+gap? Is it fair to blame the wage gap on women's choices?
+ Ms. Poo. Well, I will say that two-thirds of all minimum
+wage workers are women, and they do not have flexibility. They
+do not even have the ability to take time off from work to get
+a vaccine in a pandemic. So, this is not about a lot of choices
+that women have. And I have not met any women in my 25 years of
+organizing women in the low-wage economy who would say that
+working a minimum wage job with no safety net, benefits, paid
+time off, or access to even job security was a choice of
+theirs. So, I will say that.
+ And I will say that we have this incredible opportunity in
+this moment as we've seen what has happened to women in this
+pandemic absent a real safety net and a real care
+infrastructure in this country, the incredible dangers of it,
+to women and to children and all of us and the economy. We have
+this incredible opportunity to transform that, to invest boldly
+in the ability of families to work and care for their kids at
+the same time, and we have to do that because 60 percent of the
+American work force earns less than $50,000 per year.
+ The average cost of childcare is $9,000 per year and the
+average cost of a private room in a nursing home is more than
+$90,000 per year. The number----
+ Ms. Speier. Thank you. I'd like to make sure Ms. Mason has
+a chance to respond as well. Thank you.
+ Ms. Mason. I would like to echo everything that Ai-jen Poo
+just said and said that this is the moment for us to really
+think about a robust care infrastructure that is able to meet
+the needs of family. As we mentioned earlier in the hearing,
+families and women can spend up to 30 percent or more of their
+income on care, and there is an absolute need for paid sick
+leave, both at the Federal and state level. There is a role for
+the private sector to play in the absence of these Federal and
+state regulation and laws. So, there's so much work to be done.
+ And, again, we have done a really great job at articulating
+the pay gap, and I think we have a number of things on the
+table and in the legislatures to help us to close it.
+ Ms. Speier. Thank you. My time's expired.
+ I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
+ The gentlelady from Illinois, Ms. Kelly, is now recognized.
+Ms. Kelly.
+ Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ Gender inequality is not only a pressing moral and social
+issue, but also, as you know, a critical economic challenge. If
+women who account for half the country's working age population
+do not achieve their full economic potential, the Nation's
+economy will suffer. A McKinsey Global Institute report finds
+that $12 trillion could be added to global GDP by 2025 by
+advancing women's equality. The public, private, and social
+sectors will all need to act to close gender gaps and work in
+society.
+ In my hometown, a report prepared by the Chicago Foundation
+for Women found that if Chicago were to
+ [inaudible] make a best in class standards of gender
+parity, it would grow the regions gross domestic product by 58
+billion.
+ [inaudible] Out of 25 people that worked out of a place, I
+had the most experience and the most education and I got paid
+the least. So, I have experienced this myself.
+ So, to begin to close the gender wage gap, women need
+updated, comprehensive equal pay legislation, such as the
+Paycheck Fairness Act, that will strengthen existing protection
+ [inaudible] policies are also essential to truly
+ [inaudible] and multi-faceted gender-based wage gap so that
+all women proportionally
+ [inaudible] assume much of the caregiving responsibilities
+in their family are not unfairly disadvantaged, but taking time
+to address their
+ [inaudible] needs. Just like right now, you know, instead
+of saying
+ [inaudible]
+ Chairwoman Maloney. We're having some technical
+difficulties with Ms. Kelly. We can come back to her.
+ The gentleman from Maryland is recognized, Mr. Sarbanes,
+while we work on her technicality problems. Mr. Sarbanes.
+ Mr. Sarbanes. Yes. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I want
+to thank the panelists who are joining us today.
+ Throughout this coronavirus pandemic, as we know, we've
+been relying extremely heavily on frontline workers to help us
+keep food on our tables, to continue to provide essential
+medical care for ourselves, for our loved ones, and to maintain
+essential services in the communities. So, we owe a huge debt
+of gratitude to grocery store clerks, hospital workers, long-
+term care aides, other essential workers that have helped to
+guide us through this pandemic.
+ We know that women are overrepresented as a share of
+frontline employees. The statistics are pretty significant.
+Two-thirds of grocery store workers are female, as are 8 in 10
+retail workers at other essential businesses. Women comprise
+three-quarters of hospital workers and more than 80 percent of
+long-term care staff.
+ Even as they've been asked to shoulder the risks and
+burdens associated with the pandemic, the majority of frontline
+workers have continued to be paid low wages and are granted few
+workplace protections.
+ Dr. Mason, are women on the front lines of the pandemic
+earning less than their male counterparts? Can you speak to
+that?
+ Ms. Mason. So, are women earning less than men in these
+essential jobs, as you call them? So, you just stated that
+women are overrepresented in the sector, but even in
+instances--in some instances where women are overrepresented,
+men still out earn women in these sectors. What's really
+important to know is that, not only are these lower wage, lower
+paying jobs, but these are also jobs with few benefits, no time
+off, no healthcare, and so it really exacerbated the economic
+precarity that women were facing, you know, when the pandemic
+hit.
+ And so, when we look across who's been most impacted in
+this moment, it is these lower wage workers and women of color
+specifically. And, again, when we think about recovery, it's
+really important to target our policy strategies, even our
+infrastructure bills around those who've been most impacted in
+this moment. And, again, it's women and women of color.
+ Mr. Sarbanes. I appreciate that. That gets to the
+structural dimension of this that was being discussed by some
+of my colleagues earlier. It seems that however you want to
+slice or dice or frame the work force, you will discover that
+there is this inequity in pay that cannot be justified by any
+particular lens you would put on it, other than the fact that
+people are not getting equal pay for equal work.
+ And you touched on the fact that frontline workers are less
+likely to have access to paid sick or family leave. They're
+less likely to be able to telework. They have fewer workplace
+protections. So, you're layering on top of this wage gap and
+pay gap all of these other additional burdens, which often
+disproportionately impact women in the work force, which
+creates that significant burden.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus, as your report notes, many public
+sector workers are women of color. Can you speak briefly about
+how the pandemic has impacted the health and economic security
+of these women? And then as we recover from the pandemic, how
+can we best support women working in both the public and
+private sectors?
+ Obviously, a lot of attention to workers in certain jobs
+because of the pandemic, the test for the Nation as public
+policymakers is whether we learn those lessons, carry them
+forward, and build a different kind of economy on the other
+side of the pandemic. So, if you could speak to that briefly,
+I'd appreciate it.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Thank you. You're absolutely correct
+that certain sectors were in overdrive, particularly the public
+sector, when we were characterizing, you know, the economic
+outlook as a shutdown. And in the public sector, it's really
+important for government to lead and be an example of what
+these rights should look like, but we've still seen a very
+punishing impact on women. You know, there have been telework
+policies that are overtly sexist, that prohibit caregiving and
+telework that caused confusion in Hawaii and needed to be
+corrected in quick time. And that's one of the things that
+we've seen is this hesitancy to go against productivity and use
+excuses like productivity and liability to not create a more
+flexible structure in government at the local level.
+ So, we're seeking those things currently in Hawaii, but,
+absolutely, public sector workers have not been exempt from
+this, and particularly women have been suffering.
+ Mr. Sarbanes. Thank you. I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Ms. Kelly, have you corrected your
+audio now? Ms. Kelly? There appears to be difficulty.
+ We are now going to the gentlelady from New York. Ms.
+Ocasio-Cortez is now recognized.
+ Ms. Kelly. Do I sound better? It's hard for me to tell.
+ Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Are we through? Are we going back to Ms.
+Kelly? OK.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, you're now
+recognized.
+ Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus, I was wondering if we could dive into a
+little bit a lot of the unrecognized but very real work that's
+been happening, especially during the pandemic, especially
+that's been borne by women and caregivers in general. I was
+wondering if you could kind of talk to us a little bit about
+that. What have been some of the expansions and increases in
+work that women have increasingly been bearing and creating and
+undergoing throughout the pandemic? How is it being undervalued
+and underrecognized, and also, how is it critical to us keeping
+our economy going? And I was wondering if you could kind of set
+the stage for us to kind of discuss about how we are not
+recognizing some of the critical work that's happening in our
+economy that's critical to its functioning.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Thank you for that question. Women are
+absolutely the scaffold of the economy, and mothers in
+particular. You know, we are born into a society that is
+profoundly patriarchal, and so motherhood is almost totally
+invisible. I didn't even notice it until it happened to me,
+quite frankly. And the amount of work, the grueling work that
+is shrouded as love is painful to experience because it is so
+demanding and requires so much sacrifice. And during the COVID-
+19 pandemic, you know, we've seen this being put on women, and
+because women already make lower wages, you know, it's logical
+for them to be the one to take the hit and exit the workplace.
+I ask myself every day whether I should quit my job, and I am
+the executive director of the Commission on Women.
+ So, rather than throw statistics at you, I would just share
+what we've been hearing from our community, which is just
+overwhelming mental health stress from women who are taking on
+these burdens. The exodus from the workplace is true, even
+though it's being denied and cast as voluntary. And we will see
+the impact of this in the data shortly, I'm sure, but that is
+what I can share with you from Hawaii.
+ Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. First of all, thank you. Thank you for
+sharing that.
+ And one of the questions that I've kind of been asking is,
+how do we better recognize this work through policy, compensate
+for it? And do programs like Medicare for All and guaranteed
+childcare, healthcare, et cetera, does this go some of the way
+in helping recognize this work, alleviate for it? And also,
+what are some real policy initiatives that we should be looking
+at to actually formally recognize, potentially compensate in
+one way or another for this kind of work, and make being a
+mother a realistic possibility that doesn't come at the expense
+of women's well-being mentally or physically in a
+disproportionate way?
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. The United States has a lot of catch-up
+to do. There are countries around the world that provide
+pensions for housewives. These are the things that we should
+absolutely make fundamental as part of the recovery and before,
+right. But for me, I think, and for our plan, it was really
+important to go beyond just compensation. We really want equal
+leisure time. We want that labor to be able to be just love. We
+want shared responsibilities rather than it just having to be
+on us, so a paycheck will not be enough for that.
+ So, I think that, you know, Medicare for All, Medicaid for
+all, childcare, universal childcare, no means testing, just
+free and available to everyone, these types of things will
+allow women to really be free from the demands that are put on
+them to sacrifice themselves for our economy.
+ Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And you bring up a point that I think is
+so important, which is leisure time. You know, I think in our
+society, especially in U.S., an American society, it's almost
+seen as sinful. And I was wondering if you could expound on
+that and how this is actually important, critical, and element
+that should be afforded to all of us. I was wondering if you
+could expound on that aspect of things a little bit because
+it's so rarely named and even discussed in public policy.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Yes. And I think it's really important
+in terms of reordering the economy around, you know, endless
+growth and consumption and extraction is reducing work time,
+valuing the time that we have to be in relationship with each
+other. And so if we can move in that direction, which is
+already in vogue in other countries to reduce work hours, those
+things should just be fundamental to us because, you know, if
+the economy is not creating well-being, what is the
+justification for it anyway.
+ Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Thank you.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
+ The gentlewoman from Michigan, Mrs. Lawrence, is now
+recognized. Mrs. Lawrence.
+ Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you so much, Madam Chair, and I want
+to thank you for having this very timely and important
+discussion.
+ As the co-chair of the Democratic Women's committee, we
+have been working very hard on supporting bills that will bring
+our economy back, and it's critical for us that all women have
+the opportunity to thrive. For example, the Paycheck Fairness
+Act takes us closer to closing the gender pay gap, and the
+FAMILY Act established a comprehensive national family leave
+program, and the Child Care for Working Families increased
+affordable childcare.
+ Dr. Mason, how can these pieces of legislation ensure that
+when we bring this economy back, that it's an equitable,
+economic recovery for women, and particularly women of color?
+And while I'm there, I also want to ask you about the
+generational impact of what we do in America by having this big
+pay gap for women and Black women, particularly, generation
+after generation? Thank you.
+ Ms. Mason. So, these bundle of policies that you just
+mentioned and the ones like the Domestic Workers Bill of Rights
+and, you know, thinking about universal childcare, these bundle
+policies are really important to our short-term recovery but
+also women's long-term economic security, well-being, and
+stability.
+ For far too long, women have been struggling to make ends
+meet. These systems have been broken for so long, and so we
+have an opportunity, again, once-in-a-generation opportunity,
+at least not seen in my lifetime, to create and build a more
+equitable economy that works for everyone, not just business
+owners and entrepreneurs, but women and families, women workers
+who are the backbones of the economy, women are the economy.
+ And so recognizing that for women of color, and Black women
+specifically, making sure that, you know, the ways in which
+they're overrepresented in the service sector and lower wage
+jobs, women of color, in general, Black women specifically, and
+so making sure that those jobs are quality jobs, jobs that have
+security, benefits, and so that, you know, women are able to
+take care of their families. And, again, righting some of the
+historic wrongs, like home ownership, looking at other things
+that we know will make the difference in women's long-term
+economic security.
+ Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you.
+ And, Ms. Carolus, if you could comment on the generational
+impact of this crisis that I feel we have in America with
+gender inequality.
+ Ms. Jabola-Carolus. Thank you for the question. Well, I'm
+coming from Hawaii into this conversation, and gender equality
+was forced from women by the United States, and that's an
+important history that we need to remember and need to resolve.
+And it's our responsibility to use that as a frame. And I think
+that if we are not able to reallocate power to women and leave
+them to the devices of, you know, this recovery, then that will
+be less power for each subsequent generation.
+ And so, it's really leveraging this moment to create these
+structural changes that we've been waiting for for so long and
+fighting for for so long and advocating for for so long, and so
+this is the moment to do that. We can't even risk entertaining
+what the consequences will be down the line.
+ Mrs. Lawrence. I just want to say thank you again to our
+chair. And this is an opportunity that we have where the
+intersection of generational wealth, generational opportunities
+that we can make a difference. I want to thank everyone that's
+here, and we need to continue to keep our voices raised.
+ And thank you so much. And I'll yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady yields back.
+ The gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Comer, is now recognized.
+Mr. Comer.
+ Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ As I said in my opening statement, women were making huge
+gains in the American work force prior to the pandemic. In
+January 2020, for the second time in history, women outnumbered
+men in the U.S. paid work force. Women outnumbered men in
+earning college degrees. But when the pandemic hit, the Nation
+shut down, women have been most adversely affected.
+ Ms. Onwuka, can you explain why women have lost more jobs
+than men since last February?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Thank you, Ranking Member. Yes. Women tend to
+be aggregated in the service industry, in the leisure--in any
+areas that have not surprisingly been hit tremendously hard by
+coronavirus closures--restaurants, bars, working in the travel
+industry. So, when you are a hotel worker and there are no
+travelers, then you are out of work. And so, it's not
+surprising that we've seen over 2 million, going on 3 million,
+women leave the work force, and particularly even women who are
+moms who have children under 18 years old. You've seen them
+leave the work force, unfortunately, because for many of them,
+they have to balance, you know, virtual school and ensuring
+that their kids' education and their household chores, you
+know, everything is taken care of. And it's unfortunate, but
+I'm hopeful that as the economies, particularly the state and
+local levels continue to reopen, that you'll see women begin to
+reenter the work force.
+ Mr. Comer. That leads me to my next question. What can we
+do in Congress to ensure that women reenter the work force as
+quickly as possible?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Well, there are some things that you can do and
+not do. One is not in pass legislation that would,
+unfortunately, remove flexible work opportunities for women.
+There is a bill pending, it's been passed by the House,
+unfortunately, the Protecting the Right to Organize Act, or the
+PRO Act, that has tucked in there a piece of remeasure that
+would inevitably reclassify millions of workers across the
+country from being independent contractors to employees.
+ We've seen in California some more legislation passed and
+it, unfortunately, hit many women who are choosing to be
+independent contractors, small business owners. They're not
+employees, not W-2 employees, but, you know, they're 1099
+workers and they enjoy that flexibility. And so I think at the
+Federal level, we've got to be careful about legislation that
+would make it difficult for, you know, workers who may be in
+those industries that are going to start to reopen to be able
+to have that independent work/contract work available to them.
+ Mr. Comer. That's a great point. I couldn't agree more.
+This committee, the Republican members anyway on this
+committee, have been very vocal about reopening our schools.
+And one of the things that I would like to point out in this
+hearing is that, obviously, when you have virtual learning,
+it's not the same quality as the in-person learning. And could
+you touch on the fact that, you know, we've affected, in my
+opinion, future female leaders, because our schools have been
+shut down over the past year, especially in the bigger cities
+where the teachers' unions are more prevalent and more adverse
+to keeping the schools shut down? Could you touch upon that?
+ Ms. Onwuka. Absolutely. I mean, I think there is a dearth
+of data that looks at the educational attainment levels of
+young-of children, how they're doing because of the coronavirus
+pandemic, being out of schools. And it's not surprisingly that
+you have many American kids who have fallen behind, and for
+Black and Brown children, they have fallen far behind, and it's
+going to be difficult for them to catch up.
+ So, I think it is important that American children are able
+to be back in the classroom. I hesitate to say that virtual
+learning is all bad, because I think it's how different school
+systems have implemented virtual learning and virtual education
+that has made some of the difference. I mean, there's certainly
+been online schools that have been tremendously successful. So,
+you know, I think we want to ensure that our kids are learning
+in the best environments possible. And when you look at
+measures, not just about their educational attainment, but also
+their mental and emotional health, we see that a lot of
+students are struggling.
+ And so, I do think it's important that our lawmakers make
+it a priority and that our school systems make it a priority to
+reopen, to reopen safely, and they can do so. We've seen it in
+the private sector, and we've seen it in other countries.
+ Mr. Comer. Absolutely. Just a couple more things real
+quick. My time's running out. There's been a lot of discussion
+today, obviously, about how achieving equal salaries between
+men and women will prove we've been successful in closing the
+pay gap. Do you think that's true?
+ Ms. Onwuka. I don't. I mean, I think from a broader
+perspective, I'm about ensuring everyone has equal
+opportunities, not just equal--not just looking at it from a
+wage gap or raw data perspective, because I think that we want
+to ensure every woman has the opportunities, has the choices
+that are best for them, and those low-earning women are able to
+move up the economic scale and economic ladder and I don't
+think there's been enough discussion about how we do that. Not
+just supporting them at a level of basic needs, but how do we
+give people a pathway forward and a path up the economic ladder
+to really achieve their American dream.
+ Mr. Comer. And, Madam Chair, last question, because I think
+this is very important to the purpose of this hearing.
+ What's the best way to gauge workplace equity--or workplace
+equality rather? Yes, sorry.
+ Ms. Onwuka. I mean, I think----
+ Mr. Comer. How do we gauge that?
+ Ms. Onwuka. I think you have, you know, research agencies
+or institutes like Pew that looks at--it actually asks people,
+you know, how are they doing in the workplace? Are they getting
+the salaries or are they getting the flexibility, whatever it
+is that they value most, are they able to achieve that? And as
+we measure that, I think that tells us more about the health of
+the American worker than just a raw average, you know, gap that
+is not even apples-to-apples comparison.
+ Mr. Comer. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. And the gentleman from California, Mr.
+DeSaulnier, is now recognized. Mr. DeSaulnier.
+ Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for this
+very, very important hearing.
+ Dr. Mason, I wanted to ask you two questions, two areas of
+questions. In this historic period of, unfortunately,
+inequality where access to capital and savings is so
+disproportionate, it's more disproportionate than any other
+time in our history when you measure the percentage of capital
+in our GDP versus wages.
+ So, we know from your work and others that this inequality
+is particularly difficult for women and women of color. I think
+your research says that the median savings for a single White
+American woman is $15,000; for a Hispanic/Latino single woman,
+it's $200; and for an African-American single woman, it's a
+hundred dollars.
+ So, we know wages, if you don't have enough in wages in
+addition to high cost areas, like the one I live in in San
+Francisco where transportation, housing costs are so--such a
+challenge that all of this compresses the opportunity.
+ So, that's one response that I'd like you to tell me about
+is this problem with getting access to capital, particularly in
+a country where access to capital, if you have a lot of money,
+America's not a bad place to live right now. And the Trump tax
+cuts, 90 percent of the benefit of that went to people who make
+over $500,000 a year who are predominantly White. So, there's
+that.
+ And the second one that always troubles me is, I don't
+think Americans realize with the advent of two incomes in the
+work force from households, and America was a leader in this,
+we didn't provide the infrastructure to help with that. The
+employers got most of the benefit. And I think of reading the
+book Perfect Madness in 2004 by Judith Warner, and rereading
+that, and just being shocked at her experience and her research
+when she moved from Washington and then went to Europe and saw
+what they had done providing universal quality childcare,
+access to transportation, and those things.
+ So, those two areas, I'd really like to hear your response.
+And that's for Dr. Mason.
+ Ms. Mason. Sorry. So, the No. 1 barrier to escaping poverty
+is poverty, and that includes low wages, housing insecurity,
+food insecurity, and all those things have been exacerbated,
+you know, during the pandemic. And what we have also seen
+during the pandemic is that people who were doing well before
+the pandemic are doing extremely well right now. And women--and
+people who were struggling are sinking. And so, wages have not
+kept pace with inflation and, again, workers are the ones that
+are disproportionately suffering.
+ When we looked at--we just did a recent survey, speaking of
+surveys, and we found that women do want the government to play
+an active role in ensuring pay equity and passing policies that
+are fair and equitable. And we also learned, through the
+survey, is that most women in their savings and checking
+account have less than a thousand dollars in both accounts and
+15 percent of women had less than $400.
+ So, when we look at inequality, we have to understand that
+this is historic, this is compounded, and it's cumulative. And
+we actually in this moment need clear structural and
+institutional changes to make sure that we can build a more
+equitable and fair economy.
+ Mr. DeSaulnier. And then to followup the Perfect Madness
+question. Just what the rest of the industrialized world has
+done to help women, knowing that our issues around women of
+color are even worse.
+ Ms. Mason. Yes, sir.
+ Mr. DeSaulnier. I don't think Americans realize how far
+behind we are.
+ Ms. Mason. We are really far behind. In fact, when we think
+about our care policies, the U.S. spends less than one percent
+of its GDP on family and care policies. We're only above
+Ireland and--excuse me--Ireland and Turkey. And if we had labor
+force participations, you know, as high as Denmark for women,
+we would see $16 billion added to the GDP.
+ So, we have clear decisions to make. And this is not about,
+you know, whether it's a hoax or not. These are the facts on
+the ground, and we need to make and take this opportunity to
+correct some of the issues that we've been raising during this
+hearing.
+ Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Doctor. Thank you for all your
+work in this field. It's really important. And I do think the
+competitive advantage that I hear from a lot of my friends
+across the aisle in terms of global economy is one that is
+missing as well for the morality of what we need to do in this
+country and the acknowledgment of the historic and implicit
+biases and prejudice. The only way for us to fix this is to
+acknowledge that, and then pursue policies that other countries
+have that put them at a competitive advantage over us. Thank
+you.
+ I yield back the balance of my time.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Vice Chair Gomez is now recognized.
+ Mr. Gomez. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ I've heard almost everything in this committee. When I
+started, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, the
+Republicans, would say that climate change didn't exist. Last
+year, the beginning of the pandemic, they were trying to make
+arguments and convince Dr. Fauci that COVID-19 wasn't as deadly
+as just the normal flu. Yes, that sounds--as preposterous as
+that sounds, that's the argument that they were making just
+last year, and now we have 530,000 Americans who have died of
+COVID-19. On an average year, anywhere from 30-to 60,000
+Americans die from the flu. But they were making that argument.
+ And now, the argument we're hearing is that they're trying
+to make the argument that the gender pay gap doesn't exist, and
+if it does, it's really small, and if it does exist, it's
+because women made certain choices, certain choices. And I want
+to be very, very clear for everyone out there. Until there is a
+choice that a man can have babies and women don't have to have
+the babies, then there's no real choice at all, right. At all.
+So, this is something that they're trying to convince people is
+that these choices have led to this decision. I think it is
+completely preposterous.
+ Also, women have been fighting to create equal pay and
+equal benefits and to have the same kind of status in their
+employment as men for decades. I used to work for a nurse's
+association, the United Nurses Association of California. They
+formed in 1972. And the reason why they formed is because the
+doctors had healthcare benefits and dental benefits and they
+did not. Nurses that worked for Kaiser did not have dental
+benefits back in 1972. Simple things like that that right now
+would be like, duh, but those disparities existed. And then
+even if you look at different programs out there, you see those
+disparities.
+ Also, my colleagues, they talk about how they want
+flexibility. People want flexibility. Why does only flexibility
+matter when it comes to a woman and not a man? Nobody ever asks
+the man, hey, do you want flexibility so you can take time off
+to care--take care of a sick family member or a child? Nobody
+asks the man that. But it--when it comes to women, that's the
+one factor that they care most about, which is preposterous,
+right.
+ Because we've seen that when we give choices, even in
+California where we expanded paid family leave, that women take
+it at a higher rate than men. I'm proud to say that men are
+starting to take it more and more and more, which is great, but
+it's still the caregiving. When somebody gets sick, it is women
+that take that burden, so you take them out of the work force.
+So, it is preposterous.
+ And then when they had a chance to help millions of women
+by raising the minimum wage, they voted in masse against it.
+Against it, right. So, when my mother was working four or five
+jobs a week, it wasn't much of a choice because we were
+struggling on a hundred percent of her salary to make ends
+meet, to put food on the table and a roof over our head. So,
+this whole red herring that it's a choice is just BS, right.
+BS.
+ So, I know the benefits of a strong paid family leave
+program. It can be tremendous, but how do we actually do it in
+a way that is equitable? How do we do it in a way that benefits
+everybody? That's something that I've learned here in
+California. We need to make sure that they have job protection
+below--for smaller employees. They need to have--make sure that
+they can return to their job. They have also wage replacement
+that is sufficient for a worker to take that time off. And
+then, at the same time, we want to make sure that they also
+know about the program. That's one of the things that we need
+to do.
+ So, I just want to say, I want to thank all the witnesses
+here today. Equal pay for equal work is still a real thing. I
+believe everybody asked the questions on paid family leave, but
+we need to make sure that we have a robust paid family leave
+protection, we implement laws that also don't discriminate
+against individuals who took lower-paying jobs in the past.
+Like not revealing your salary data from previous employers
+makes a difference, because often women and people of color
+often get, I don't want to say screwed, but they get screwed
+when it comes to that first job out of college, right, and then
+that sets the scale for how they get raises in the future.
+There's so many different things than policy.
+ I want to say thank you for attending, and this was--I'm
+glad we had this hearing, but there's--my colleagues on the
+other side of the aisle need to see the light when it comes to
+a lot of these issues, including the gender pay equity gap.
+Thank you so much.
+ And I yield back to the chair.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back.
+ And, without objection, the following items supporting
+legislative proposals to close the gender pay gap will be
+entered into the record: A report from the TIME'S UP Foundation
+entitled, ``It's Time to Care''; a letter from the National
+Partnership for Women and Families; a statement by Professor
+Julie Suk; a report from IWPR submitted by Dr. C. Nicole Mason.
+ Before we close, I'd like to offer the ranking member an
+opportunity to offer any closing remarks that he may have.
+ Ranking Member Comer, you are now recognized. Mr. Comer.
+ Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair.
+ And, again, we want to thank all the witnesses for being
+here today. And, certainly, I think the one thing that we all
+agree on is that women should receive the same amount of pay as
+men for the same type of work and the same type of work
+product. The question is, who determines what equal pay is? Who
+determines what the same amount of work is? These are the
+questions that we've tried to ask. These are the problems with
+the bill. These are the concerns that people in the private
+sector have.
+ You know, I like to point out that I was Commissioner of
+Agriculture for four years. I led an agency of probably, on
+average, 275 employees. The three highest employees in my
+agency were females. They were non-merit employees that I
+hired. I have a congressional office, what do we have, 14
+employees. My two highest paid employees are female. That's not
+because they're female; it's because they're the best
+employees.
+ And I have a private sector business. My highest paid
+employee is a female, not, again, because the government told
+me to, not because that's the law, because I want the best
+employees. And I think that in the private sector, supply and
+demand usually plays out with credible companies that want to
+hire the best people.
+ I think we live in a new normal because of COVID. I think
+there's going to be more work from home. I think this is a
+situation that's going to create opportunities for some. And
+I'm more than willing to work with the committee on solutions
+moving forward, but I do think that this was a productive
+hearing.
+ I congratulate you all on having some great witnesses.
+We're proud of our witness too and look forward to, hopefully,
+future hearings on things like border security because we have
+a crisis at the border. Hopefully, if these schools aren't
+reopened in some of these bigger cities, that we'll have
+hearings to discuss the science of that. And I think that we
+have a lot of great opportunities moving forward, Madam Chair.
+With that, I yield back.
+ Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
+ I now recognize myself for a closing statement.
+ We've heard some sobering testimony today from a truly
+impressive and diverse group of women. I applaud their hard
+work and continued fight for equality. We know that the pay gap
+exists. We know that it impacts women over their entire
+lifetimes, resulting in older women being the largest segment
+of poverty in our country.
+ We know the coronavirus pandemic is hitting women the
+hardest, precisely because we have not addressed these systemic
+inequalities. Let's not wait until the next crisis hits to act.
+Let's get at the root of the problem now, for ourselves, for
+our mothers, our daughters, our sisters, our neighbors, and for
+those who are suffering much more than we can ever, ever
+imagine.
+ I have seen so much progress for women during my lifetime
+and my tenure in Congress, but we still have a far, long road
+to go. Let this be the last equal pay day we ever have to
+commemorate, because hardworking people of all genders deserve
+to be fairly compensated for their work.
+ In closing, I want to thank our panelists for their
+remarks, and I want to commend my colleagues for participating
+so strongly in this important conversation.
+ With that and, without objection, all members have 5
+legislative days within which to submit additional written
+questions for the witnesses to the chair which will be
+forwarded to the witnesses for their response. I ask our
+witnesses to please respond as promptly as you can.
+ This hearing is adjourned.
+ [Whereupon, at 12:44 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
+
+
+