[House Hearing, 117 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] BUILDING BACK THE U.S. RESEARCH ENTERPRISE: COVID IMPACTS AND RECOVERY ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ FEBRUARY 25, 2021 __________ Serial No. 117-2 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 43-446PDF WASHINGTON : 2022 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY HON. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas, Chairwoman ZOE LOFGREN, California FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon Ranking Member AMI BERA, California MO BROOKS, Alabama HALEY STEVENS, Michigan, BILL POSEY, Florida Vice Chair RANDY WEBER, Texas MIKIE SHERRILL, New Jersey BRIAN BABIN, Texas JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana JERRY McNERNEY, California PETE SESSIONS, Texas PAUL TONKO, New York DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida BILL FOSTER, Illinois MIKE GARCIA, California DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma DON BEYER, Virginia YOUNG KIM, California CHARLIE CRIST, Florida RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa SEAN CASTEN, Illinois JAKE LaTURNER, Kansas CONOR LAMB, Pennsylvania CARLOS A. GIMENEZ, Florida DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina JAY OBERNOLTE, California GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin PETER MEIJER, Michigan DAN KILDEE, Michigan VACANCY SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas VACANCY C O N T E N T S February 25, 2021 Page Hearing Charter.................................................. 2 Opening Statements Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives................................................ 8 Written Statement............................................ 9 Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Ranking Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives................................................ 10 Written Statement............................................ 11 Witnesses: Dr. Sudip Parikh, Chief Executive Officer, American Association for the Advancement of Science Oral Statement............................................... 13 Written Statement............................................ 15 Dr. Christopher Keane, Vice President for Research, Washington State University Oral Statement............................................... 25 Written Statement............................................ 27 Dr. Felice J. Levine, Executive Director, American Educational Research Association Oral Statement............................................... 45 Written Statement............................................ 47 Mr. Thomas Quaadman, Executive Vice President, Center for Capital Markets Competitiveness, U.S. Chamber of Commerce Oral Statement............................................... 53 Written Statement............................................ 55 Discussion....................................................... 68 Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions Dr. Sudip Parikh, Chief Executive Officer, American Association for the Advancement of Science................................. 112 Dr. Christopher Keane, Vice President for Research, Washington State University............................................... 116 Dr. Felice J. Levine, Executive Director, American Educational Research Association........................................... 127 Mr. Thomas Quaadman, Executive Vice President, Center for Capital Markets Competitiveness, U.S. Chamber of Commerce.............. 132 Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record Report submitted by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Chairwoman, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives ``Issue Brief: U.S. R&D Community Pandemic Recovery Lagging,'' American Physical Society....................... 142 Letter submitted by Representative Bill Posey, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 147 BUILDING BACK THE U.S. RESEARCH ENTERPRISE: COVID IMPACTS AND RECOVERY ---------- THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2021 House of Representatives, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, Washington, D.C. The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m., via Webex, Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson [Chairwoman of the Committee] presiding. [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Johnson. And without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recess at any time. Pursuant to House Resolution 8, today, the Committee is meeting virtually. I want to announce a couple of reminders to the Members about the conduct of the remote hearing. First, Members should keep their video feed on as long as they are present in the hearing, and Members are responsible for their own microphones. Please keep your microphones muted until you are speaking. And finally, if Members have documents they wish to submit for the record, please email them to the Committee Clerk, whose email address was circulated prior to the meeting. Good morning and welcome to today's hearing. I want to thank our distinguished panel for joining us today and remind them that there are probably two of the names that I'll get a little bit mixed because I'm from Waco, Texas, and I only speak Waco English. But I want to thank our distinguished panel for joining us today. This week our Nation passed yet another heart-wrenching milestone. More than a half million of our friends, neighbors, family members, frontline workers, and fellow citizens have succumbed to COVID-19 since the disease first touched our shores a little more than a year ago. Even as vaccines are being administered around the country, help has come too late for them and for the more than 2,000 Americans who continue to die each passing day. Those numbers are staggering, yet we must remember it would have been even worse if not for the sacrifices that Americans have been making to bring this virus under control. The necessary mitigation measures undertaken by individuals and by businesses, institutions, and organizations of all types have created enormous disruptions to every sector of American life, including agriculture, manufacturing, hospitality, education, sports, transportation, and health care as we have attempted to slow this deadly spread of the virus. Scientific research has not been spared. We are here today to discuss the state of the U.S. research enterprise one year into this pandemic, and to explore what is needed to get things back on track. For my colleagues who are new to the Committee, let me say a few words about the critical role research plays in our society. For decades, federally funded research has generated new ideas and spurred breakthrough innovations, which fuel our economy and create jobs, inspire new generations of young people to pursue science, improve public health and education, and keep us a step ahead of our global competitors. Our research system is the envy of the world, and many nations have tried hard to emulate it. In this hearing we will examine the ways in which the pandemic has slowed the pace of research and innovation and reversed hard-earned gains in expanding our STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) workforce. I am deeply concerned about the long-term consequences for the American people if we don't make these investments necessary to address the needs of our science agencies, universities, researchers, and students. Even before the pandemic, years of stagnant funding dramatically eroded our standing as the leader in science and innovation with countries like China nipping at our heels. It is not enough to recover simply to maintain the status quo. We must grow the research enterprise so that we can boldly tackle the urgent challenges ahead of us. For these reasons, I did not hesitate to join my bipartisan colleagues in the House in cosponsoring the RISE Act. I was also pleased to be joined by Ranking Member Lucas in reintroducing the Supporting Early Career Researchers Act, which is focused specifically on keeping the best and brightest in research careers that they have already worked so hard for. I hope my colleagues on both sides of the aisle will continue to join me in advocating for their passage and the real funding for those two bills. In that regard, I look forward to learning from the expert panel about the specific challenges and needs one year into the pandemic, including any recommendations for updating these bills. Well, we have a lot to consider today, and I again want to thank our witnesses for appearing with us today. [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Johnson follows:] Good morning and welcome to today's hearing. I want to thank our distinguished panel for joining us today. This week our Nation passed yet another heart wrenching milestone. More than half a million of our friends, neighbors, family members, front-line workers, and fellow citizens have succumbed to COVID-19 since the disease first touched our shores a little over one year ago. Even as vaccines are being administered around the country, help has come too late for them and the more than two thousand Americans who continue to die with each passing day. Those numbers are staggering, yet we must remember it would have been even worse if not for the sacrifices Americans have been making to bring the virus under control. The necessary mitigation measures undertaken by individuals and by businesses, institutions, and organizations of all types have created enormous disruptions to every sector of American life, including agriculture, manufacturing, hospitality, education, sports, transportation, and health care as we have attempted to slow the deadly spread of the virus. Scientific research has not been spared. We are here today to discuss the state of the U.S. research enterprise one year into this pandemic, and to explore what is needed to get things back on track. For my colleagues who are new to the Committee, let me say a few words about the critical role research plays in our society. For decades, federally funded research has generated new ideas and spurred breakthrough innovations which fuel our economy and create jobs, inspire new generations of young people to pursue science, improve public health and education, and keep us a step ahead of our global competitors. Our research system is the envy of the world, and many nations have tried hard to emulate it. In this hearing we will examine the ways in which the pandemic has slowed the pace of research and innovation and reversed hard-earned gains in expanding our STEM workforce. I am deeply concerned about the long-term consequences for the American people if we don't make the investments necessary to address the needs of our science agencies, universities, researchers, and students. Even before the pandemic, years of stagnant funding dramatically eroded our standing as the leader in science and innovation, with countries like China nipping at our heels. It is not enough to recover simply to maintain the status quo-we must grow the research enterprise so we can boldly tackle the urgent challenges ahead of us. For those reasons, I did not hesitate to join my bipartisan colleagues in the House in cosponsoring the RISE Act. I was also pleased to be joined by Ranking Member Lucas in re- introducing the Supporting Early Career Researchers Act, which is focused specifically on keeping the best and brightest in research careers that they have already worked so hard for. I hope my colleagues on both sides of the aisle will continue to join me in advocating for their passage and for real funding for those two bills. In that regard, I look forward to learning from the expert panel about the specific challenges and needs one year into the pandemic, including any recommendations for updating those bills. Well, we have a lot to consider today, and I again want to thank our witnesses for appearing before us today. I now yield to Ranking Member Lucas for his opening statement. Chairwoman Johnson. Before I recognize Mr. Lucas for the-- his opening remarks, I'd like to present for the record a report from the American Physical Society entitled ``Issue Brief: The U.S. R&D Community Pandemic Recovery Lagging.'' Thank you. And now I will ask for Mr. Lucas for his opening statement. Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Chairwoman Johnson, both for being a pleasure to work with and for holding this hearing. I believe that today's topics, restarting American research, is one of the most important issues we face at this moment. In September we heard from students and academics about the far-reaching impacts of COVID shutdowns. Those problems are only getting worse as Congress continues to ignore this problem in COVID relief bills. American research universities support nearly 7 million jobs, and hundreds of thousands of those are directly supported by research funding. As research funding dries, those jobs are threatened. The research itself is also suffering. When COVID hit, labs across the country had to close or dramatically limit their operations to provide for safe social distancing. It's estimated we're losing between 20 and 40 percent of our research output, which we absolutely cannot afford if we want to keep pace with China. The Chinese Communist Party is determined to overtake us in the industries of the future, areas of science and technology that will drive economic growth and national security in the years to come. The longer our research remains stalled, the more likely it is we'll fall behind our foreign adversaries on technologies like artificial intelligence, quantum information sciences and advanced manufacturing. The consequences of that would be devastating. In addition to our loss of research, we're facing the loss of our researchers. Graduate students and post-docs are particularly vulnerable to lab closures right now. Research interruptions make it difficult to complete their studies and graduate on time. And universities have instituted hiring freezes, making it difficult to find work. Our STEM pipeline and future competitiveness could be irreparably damaged if we don't act quickly. Unfortunately, we can't just flip a switch and restart the research work that's been halted by the pandemic. There's a cost involved in getting back up and running. Scientists need to cultivate new samples; field researchers need to reacquire equipment, permits, and tools; and labs need to figure out how to safely use and sterilize expensive and delicate equipment. For a time, research will cost more and take longer to conduct. We need to plan for that. But our science progress is worth that investment. That's why I was so disappointed that in the $4 trillion in COVID spending that Congress has already passed, not one cent has gone to research itself. In the massive and partisan $1.9 trillion budget reconciliation proposal being considered this week, billions and billions of dollars are going to special interests that already have $1 trillion in unspent funding sitting in the Treasury from previous COVID packages. And yet in all that spending, only $600 million was allocated to helping the research industry recover from the pandemic. That's less than half a percent. We've relied on American science and scientists to combat COVID, but we're not giving them the funding they need to resume the work that's been stopped by the pandemic. We need to act now. I'm a proud cosponsor of the RISE Act, which would invest $25 billion in restarting American research. It provides the funding needed for researchers to complete work that was halted due to the pandemic. And it will allow Federal science agencies to make awards to research universities, independent institutions, and national laboratories. I'm also proud of the Supporting Early Career Researchers Act Chairwoman Johnson and I reintroduced at the start of this Congress. This bill creates a new postdoctoral fellowship program at the National Science Foundation to help support early career researchers. Both of these bills enjoy strong bipartisan support, which is why I'm hopeful that we can move forward on them sooner rather than later. In the meantime, I'd like to thank our witnesses for being here today. I'm looking forward to learning more about the challenges facing our research industry and to hear your ideas about how we can support American scientists and technology. And with that, Madam Chair, again, thank you. And I yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Lucas follows:] Thank you, Chairwoman Johnson, for holding this hearing. I believe that today's topic--restarting American research--is one of the most important issues we face at this moment. In September we heard from students and academics about the far- ranging impacts of COVID shutdowns. Those problems are only getting worse as Congress continues to ignore this problem in COVID relief bills. American research universities support nearly 7 million jobs, and hundreds of thousands of those are directly supported by research funding. As research funding dries up, those jobs are threatened. The research itself is also suffering. When COVID hit, labs across the country had to close or dramatically limit their operations to provide for safe social distancing. It's estimated that we're losing between 20 and 40 percent of our research output, which we absolutely cannot afford if we want to keep pace with China. The Chinese Communist Party is determined to overtake us in the industries of the future-areas of science and technology that will drive economic growth and national security in the years to come. The longer our research remains stalled, the more likely it is that we'll fall behind our foreign adversaries on technologies like artificial intelligence, quantum information sciences, advanced manufacturing. The consequences of that would be devastating. In addition to our loss of research, we're facing the loss of our researchers. Graduate students and post-docs are particularly vulnerable to lab closures right now. Research interruptions make it difficult to complete their studies and graduate on time. And universities have instituted hiring freezes, making it difficult to find work. Our STEM pipeline and future competitiveness could be irreparably damaged if we don't act quickly. Unfortunately, we can't just flip a switch and restart the research work that's been halted by the pandemic. There's a cost involved in getting back up and running. Scientists need to cultivate new samples, field researchers need to reacquire equipment, permits, and tools, and labs need to figure out how to safely use and sterilize expensive and delicate equipment. For a time, research will cost more and take longer to conduct, and we need to plan for that. But our scientific progress is worth that investment. That's why I'm so disappointed that in the $4 trillion in COVID spending that Congress has already passed, not one cent has gone to research relief. In the massive and partisan $1.9 trillion budget reconciliation proposal being considered this week, billions and billions of dollars are going to special interests that already have $1 trillion in unspent funding sitting in the Treasury from previous COVID packages. And yet in all that spending, only $600 million was allocated to helping the research industry recover from the pandemic. That's less than half a percent. We've relied on American science and scientists to combat COVID, but we're not giving them the funding they need to resume the work that's been stopped by the pandemic. We need to act now. I'm a proud cosponsor of the RISE Act, which would invest $25 billion in restarting American research. It provides the funding needed for researchers to complete work that was halted due to the pandemic. And it will allow federal science agencies to make awards to research universities, independent institutions, and national laboratories. I'm also proud of the Supporting Early-Career Researchers Act Chairwoman Johnson and I re-introduced at the start of this Congress. This bill creates a new postdoctoral fellowship program at the National Science foundation to help support early career researchers. Both of these bills enjoy strong bipartisan support, which is why I'm hopeful that we can move forward on them sooner rather than later. In the meantime, I'd like to thank our witnesses for being here today. I'm looking forward to learning more about the challenges facing our research industry, and hear your ideas about how we can support American science and technology. Thank you. Chairwoman Johnson. Our first witness, Dr. Sudip Parikh, is the Chief Executive Officer of the American Association for the Advancement of Science--we call it AAAS--and the Executive Publisher of the Science family of journals, a position he has held since January 2020. Prior to his current position with AAAS, Dr. Parikh served as Senior Vice President and Managing Director at DIA Global, the General Manager of the Health and Consumer Solutions Business Unit and Vice President at Battelle. Our next witness, Dr. Christopher Keane, Dr. Keane is Vice President of Research (VPR) and professor of physics at Washington State University (WSU) where he has served since 2014. Prior to his positions there, he served in multiple leadership positions at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE's) National Nuclear Security Administration. Dr. Keane is also Chair of the Association of Public and Land-Grant Universities (APLU) Council on Research Executive Committee. Our third witness, Dr. Felice Levine. Dr. Levine is Executive Director of the American Educational Research Association (AERA). Her work focuses on research and science policy issues, the scientific and academic workforce, and diversity and inclusion in higher education. Dr. Levine is engaged in a multi-method study of the impact of COVID-19 on early career education researchers and doctoral students. Our next witness, Mr. Thomas Quaadman, Mr. Quaadman is Executive Vice President of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Center for Capital Markets Competitiveness, the Chamber Technology Engagement Center, and the Global Innovation Policy Center. In his role with the Center for Capital Markets Competitiveness, he works to create and execute legislative, regulatory, and judicial strategies to reform the financial regulatory system and support policies for efficient capital markets. Our witnesses should know that you will each have 5 minutes for your spoken testimony. Your written testimony will be included in the record for the hearing. And when you have completed your spoken testimony, we will begin with questions, and each Member will have 5 minutes to question the panel. We will now start with Dr. Parikh. TESTIMONY OF DR. SUDIP PARIKH, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE Dr. Parikh. Thank you. Chairwoman Johnson, Ranking Member Lucas, and Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. As the CEO (chief executive officer) of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, or AAAS, and the Executive Publisher of Science magazine, I have the privilege of representing 120,000 scientists and engineers from every discipline, from agriculture and artificial intelligence (AI) to x-ray crystallography and zoology, who work tirelessly to advance science and serve society for the benefit of all. And here's what they tell me. It seems strange to say it during a pandemic, but we live in wondrous times. The pace of discovery and innovation has never been faster. We've seen, we've seen the methane-covered mountains of Pluto. We have felt the gravitational ripples caused by colliding black holes. We have detailed extensive changes to our climate and environment. We've advanced quantum computing to the brink of broader utility and the creation of jobs and harnessed gene editing to potentially cure sickle-cell anemia and other diseases, not to mention the thrill of landing a rover on Mars in high- resolution no less. Despite failures in our public health response to the pandemic, the biomedical research enterprise has never worked more quickly to understand and address COVID-19. The record- shattering number of submissions to the journal Science and other peer-reviewed publications for COVID, it speaks volumes about the speed and intensity with which researchers are responding to this crisis. And they haven't stopped in other areas either. But we also live in uncertain times. Multiple intersecting challenges have the potential to become global crises. The COVID-19 pandemic is not going to be the last time that science is essential to society's triumph over existential threats. Addressing future public health concerns like Alzheimer's, climate change, food and water insecurity, and other challenges, some of which aren't even emerged yet, will require addressing short-term funding challenges and long-term support for science. But we can't do things the way we've always done them either. The cadence of emerging crises and the pace of discoveries requires permanent elevation of scientific advisors to the front ranks of policymaking. And at the same time, we need to more fully engage diverse communities with an intentional emphasis on those that have been ignored, marginalized, or harmed by scientific advancement. Today's hearing is incredibly timely. We are at an inflection point. As I said, we live in wondrous times for discovery, but that's a lagging indicator of previous investment. Unfortunately, due to the pandemic and slow erosion of investment, our Nation's universities and laboratories, the foundation of our innovation ecosystem, have faced an eroding capacity to nurture ideas, discoveries, and, most importantly, a highly skilled, diverse pool of STEM talent. And this is happening just as our global competitors are pouring investment into the sciences. What we do now could determine who benefits from scientific discovery in the form of better jobs and improved health. Scientists and engineers have risen to the challenge of COVID-19, but this success has come at a price. Lab workers have been forced to work in shifts, and this limited lab time has slowed research. Lab budgets have been strained by the need to extend salaries. With needed safety measures in place, human subjects research has been particularly challenging. And field expeditions have been canceled or curtailed. Early career researchers have been hit especially hard. For undergraduates in STEM, summer research programs were widely canceled, creating challenges in applying and progressing to grad school. For graduate students and postdoctoral researchers, job searches were suspended, leaving them in incredibly precarious positions of waiting for the job market to return. Mental health has also been a continued concern. For women and underrepresented minorities in STEM, the pandemic has just further exacerbated already existing disparities. One recent survey found that female scientists and scientists with young dependents reported that their ability to devote time to the research has been substantially affected. Another found that students of color at research universities, as well as low- income and working-class students, were more likely to experience anxiety and depression, food and housing insecurity, and much higher rates of financial hardship. Science involves problem-solving and collaboration. Every time a research project is shuttered or delayed or a promising scientist drops out of the workforce, it raises the question what discovery or development that could have made us safer, led to better jobs, or healed the sick has been lost? This is the time to act. The wisdom and foresight of Congress in investing in science and engineering (S&E) has enabled America's global leadership. I look forward to discussing with you how we can ensure a future where the descendants of Native Americans, pilgrims, enslaved peoples, Ellis Island arrivals, and everybody else working together can come together to address the coming crises and build a better future for all Americans. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Dr. Parikh follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. Dr. Christopher Keane. TESTIMONY OF DR. CHRISTOPHER KEANE, VICE PRESIDENT FOR RESEARCH, WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY Dr. Keane. OK. Good morning. Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member--Chairwoman Johnson, Ranking Member Lucas, and Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today before the Committee regarding the contribution of the Nation's universities to building back the U.S. research enterprise and the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. My name is Christopher Keane, and I'm Vice President for Research at Washington State University. In my capacity as VPR at WSU, I serve as Chair of the Association of Public and Land-Grant Universities Council on Research. I want to highlight the work that WSU and our fellow public and land-grant institutions are doing to support our public health and economy during the pandemic, the impact the pandemic has had on our research enterprise, and the role Congress can play in mitigating the challenges research institutions across the country face. The Nation's public and land-grant universities, echoing the last speaker, indeed, have risen to the challenge in the campaign against the coronavirus. This includes conducting research relevant to COVID-19, testing, support of campus and community vaccination efforts, and other activities needed to return students to school and support the safe resumption of university programs while ensuring the health of our communities. Working with local, State, and national public health officials, industry, and other organizations, universities are making adjustments to meet the needs of our students, researchers, and communities. For example, WSU's Washington State Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory (WADDL) has been modified to conduct CLIA (Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments)-certified--that's the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) approval process--testing for the SARS-CoV-2 virus. To date, WADDL has processed over 67,000 samples from surrounding residents, including about 25,000 samples from WSU faculty, students, and staff. WSU has provided cold storage for vaccines and is also partnering in the delivery of over 12,000 doses to residents in eastern Washington. The university has continued to face severe impacts right now, including delays and disruptions to undergraduate and postgraduate education, revenue losses, and increased operational costs; amplification of gender, racial, and other previously existing inequities; disruption of the flow of talent, infrastructure impacts; food and housing insecurity, unfortunately; lack of childcare, and other factors. These impacts directly undermine our ability to support the fundamental research that drives innovation. Indeed, economists estimate innovation provides 50 percent of annual U.S. GDP (gross domestic product) growth. One story, at WSU Vancouver, one of our assistant professors recently shared this tale, quote, ``At the start of the pandemic, my children and I were targeted with racial slurs just because we were Asian American, and we didn't cause the pandemic. Add to that the emotional stress I have from homeschooling my special-needs child, and I just don't have the energy or ability to produce research papers. After many months of non-productivity, I finally chose to give up sleeping. I now regularly have resumed some sleeping, only getting 2 or 3 hours a night just so I can keep writing papers and stay on track for my career.'' That's a real story, and there's numerous others. WSU and the Nation's academic community are grateful for the Federal assistance provided by Congress over the past year. As Congress considers additional stimulus and recovery funding, I urge the Committee to pass the RISE Act that will provide $25 billion to Federal research agencies to support projects at independent research institutions, public laboratories, and universities throughout the country. The funding would also support early career researchers and graduate students, researchers and disciplines not fully covered such as human subject research and field work and vital facilities. Making full use of all our national talent is critical to recovery, advancing the U.S. research enterprise, and remaining competitive globally. China's current annual R&D (research and development) expenditure growth exceeds that of the United States by roughly $60 billion, which in fact is double the total request for the RISE Act. So even if all the RISE Act funding were applied to federally funded research--and there are many other costs as well, of course--China would remain on a path to exceed U.S. R&D expenditures in the near future, ultimately threatening our position as the world leader in an innovation economy. We also need to encourage students to follow a career path in research, and I urge the Committee to support the Early Career Researchers Act. This will provide the financial support necessary for young researchers to be hired who may be otherwise lost to our national enterprise due to the current crisis. On behalf of the Nation's public and land-grant universities, I appreciate the opportunity to speak here today and express our thanks for the support provided by the Committee and Congress. The resources you have provided are allowing our research universities to meet the challenges of COVID-19. The pandemic, however, has emphasized and in many cases amplified many of the existing shortfalls I have outlined. I urge the Committee to support the RISE Act to advance the research enterprise at our universities and the fundamental research and new ideas it drives, allowing the U.S. innovation economy to flourish and better the lives of all Americans. Again, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. [The prepared statement of Dr. Keane follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Johnson. Sorry I didn't unmute. Thank you very much for your testimony. Dr. Levine. TESTIMONY OF DR. FELICE J. LEVINE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN EDUCATIONAL RESEARCH ASSOCIATION Dr. Levine. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Johnson, Ranking Member Lucas, and Members of the Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today. As we reach the 1-year mark of COVID-19 hitting the United States with full force, the disruptions to the lives of early career scholars and doctoral students in higher education institutions have proven to be drastic, persistent, and far- reaching. The harsh conditions are taking their toll on research progress, research, researchers, and academic careers, as my colleagues have just also addressed. It also exacerbated gender and racial inequities that may have long-lasting effects on future generations of researchers. Almost at the onset of the pandemic, scholars of the American Educational Research Association and the Spencer Foundation determined that it was essential to use our research expertise to gather information about the experiences and needs of early career scholars and doctoral students. We decided to undertake two studies, the Focus--the COVID-19 Focus Group Study, and the COVID-19 Impact Survey. The Focus Group Study report was just released in late January and is based on systematic study of 12 focus groups of early career scholars and doctoral students. We were able to hear their voices. The survey is a national study of some 6,000 doctoral students and early career scholars engaged in education research. The data collection just ended several weeks ago, and data analysis is about to begin. Today, I share just a handful of topline findings and facts that are prototypical of our results, along with other studies noted in my written testimony. They convey a reality that those committed to scientific progress, U.S. science leadership, inclusive scientific literacy, and diverse workforce must confront. First, we learned from our focus groups that scholars are facing research derailments and delays, uncertainties, and ambiguities. This finding is consistent with our survey data. Approximately 70 percent of both early career scholars and doctoral students said COVID-19 had substantially slowed progress on critical research tasks, 45 percent of the doctoral students reporting extending their doctoral completion day as one indicator of the impact of those delays. Second, systemic racism in particular after the killing of George Floyd has led to a dual pandemic and added professional pressures for scholars of color. They are experiencing not only emotional distress and exhaustion compounded by being asked to take on more work to help their institutions address these issues. And we need to understand how to strike a balance in that arena. Third, scholars, especially women, face uncertainties and barriers to research productivity while juggling family and home. This theme was dominant in both focus groups and the survey. Seventy percent of female doctoral students and 74 percent of female scholars with childcare responsibilities reported a significant increase due to COVID-19 of these responsibilities. Fourth, researchers are increasingly concerned about their employment status and careers. Our survey data show that nearly 24 percent or a quarter had already reported experiences of reduction or loss of income due to COVID-19. Fifth, scientific progress, as we know, depends upon three C's and a lot of A's of course, cumulative knowledge, collaboration, and connection. Yet another dominant focus group theme and survey result is a loss of opportunities for collegial exchange. Forty-six percent of the doctoral students and 57 percent of the early career scholars reported a great deal of loss, and over 80 percent of both groups referred to the absence of that kind of exchange and interaction as affecting and shaping their careers. However stark these data are, findings like these are helpful for the work that you are doing. Together, we have an opportunity to do better. AERA and our peer associations strongly support the RISE Act. It would provide a much-needed infusion of funds to address the cost of disruptions to research grants, provide financial support and flexibility for researchers, and help cover expenses to ramp research back up. AERA also strongly endorses the Supporting Early Career Researchers Act for all the reasons set forth by the Members and also from my colleagues. It will establish a new National Science Foundation (NSF) fellowship program to help early career researchers in the STEM pipeline in flexible and appropriate and essential ways. We are at a pivotal time to support the next generation of researchers and the research enterprise that relies on them. The risk to their futures and to our country that reaps the benefits from science are far too great to miss this opportunity. Thank you, and I look forward to participating in the question-and-answer session that follows. [The prepared statement of Dr. Levine follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. Your testimony was very complete. Mr. Thomas Quaadman. TESTIMONY OF MR. THOMAS QUAADMAN, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR CAPITAL MARKETS COMPETITIVENESS, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE Mr. Quaadman. Good morning, Chair Johnson, Ranking Member Lucas, and Members of the Science, Space, and Technology Committee. Thank you for your bipartisan leadership on key research and development initiatives and for the opportunity to discuss the role R&D is playing in fighting the COVID-19 virus and how R&D can help the American economy keep its leading edge in an increasingly competitive international marketplace. R&D is a wide-ranging process that advances the strategic interests of the United States, improves the health and well- being of all Americans, and gives our consumers access to high- quality products that allows them to enjoy the highest standard of living in a global economy. As you know, there are three areas of research: Basic research, which is theoretical in nature; applied research, which is directed at a specific aim; and development, which is used to create new products or improve existing products. The American R&D infrastructure revolves around three pillars made up of the Federal Government, academia, and the private sector. Generally, the Federal Government, often working through academia, tends to focus on basic research, the business community leads on development, and all three play significant roles in applied research. Intellectual property (IP) rights provide a basis for collaboration and technology transfer among all three. This infrastructure thrives as a result of long-standing and strong bipartisan support from Congress, including funding and the passage of key bills last year. Other long-standing laws such as the Bayh-Dole Act and the Leahy-Smith America Invents Act make the U.S. intellectual property system the most reliable in the world. These bipartisan initiatives have made the United States the global leader in R&D since the start of World War II. While we know many past accomplishments, America's R&D leadership has been on full display in the effort to combat COVID-19. Pfizer and Moderna developed and deployed highly effective vaccines in less than a year, and Johnson & Johnson will soon follow suit. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are based on new technology called mRNA that allows a person's RNA to be programmed to produce vaccines. This treatment can be revolutionary in treating other diseases such as cancers and chronic conditions that impact millions of Americans. MRNA was based upon decades of academic and private sector R&D. Artificial intelligence shaved off months if not years of research to narrow the scope for researchers to target other drugs that can be used to treat and prevent COVID-19. This took an all-nation approach. There have been over 1,100 clinical trials in all 50 States covering over 410 congressional districts. While we must still defeat the pandemic, the tools are coming online to do so. This would not have been possible without the long-term R&D efforts by life sciences companies or the short-term laser-focus bipartisanship in the Federal Government, academia, and the private sector. Despite these successes, America's global R&D leadership is in peril. Currently, 70 percent of spending in the United States is performed by the private sector. In the mid-1960's 70 percent was undertaken by the Federal Government. Federal Government R&D spending has fallen to 2.8 percent of the budget, its lowest point in 60 years, and has gone down consistently since the 2008 financial crisis. China has been closing the gap rapidly. Since 2000, U.S. R&D spending has grown by 4.3 percent annually while Chinese spending has grown by 17 percent annually. A key factor of future competitiveness is R&D intensity or the share of R&D spending to the economy. Currently the United States ranks 10th. We believe there are concrete bipartisan steps that can reverse these negative trends and maintain America's leadership in research and development. This can be done by enacting and passing the RISE Act to mitigate the impact of COVID-19 on our national research enterprise and lay the foundation for future discoveries and innovation, ensure that recently enacted R&D legislation including the National Artificial Intelligence Initiative Act, CHIPS for America Act, and the Energy Act of 2020 are fully implemented and funded. Increase funding for the Technology Modernization Fund and other programs in order to digitally transform government. Modernizing government platforms will enable greater real-time collaboration and strengthen the Federal Government's research capacity. Identify additional opportunities to reverse the decline in Federal investments in R&D with a focus on basic research, maintain the ability of private companies to immediately deduct R&D expenses, enable the private sector R&D investment to a recommitment to the patent system. These steps will be critical for the United States to remain a leader in areas such as semiconductors while establishing a commanding position in areas such as artificial intelligence and quantum computing. In doing so, we can recover from the impacts of the pandemic and lay the foundation for the United States to lead the industries of tomorrow. I'm happy to take any questions you may have. [The prepared statement of Mr. Quaadman follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. We've had fantastic testimony. And let me just say that many of the questions that I've had you have touched on. We know this, we'll now begin our questioning, and I'll yield myself 5 minutes. The COVID-19 crisis has affected research across the board, but some disciplines have been harder hit than others. Experimental researchers have had limited access to their laboratory equipment and have experienced a larger disruption of their work than researchers working on theoretical science and computing. Perhaps more importantly, the STEM pipeline has been harmed by this crisis. Graduate student training and mentoring has suffered from limited access to library space, laboratory space, collaborators, and field sites. We are seeing elevated rates of anxiety and depression among graduate students, particularly among marginalized groups. Undergraduates aren't getting the hands-on research experience that inspired them to pursue STEM as a career, and universities are instituting hiring freezes to save money, which has resulted in a 70 percent drop in the faculty job market. As a result, some early career researchers are facing the difficult decision to leave research in order to support their families. Women researchers have taken on the majority of the additional childcare responsibilities that have arisen due to the pandemic, and this has resulted in slower research progress for women compared with their male counterparts, which threatens to widen the gender gap in STEM faculty representation, reversing years of incremental progress. A recent Council on Government Relations model estimated that research output dropped by 20 to 40 percent since March of 2020. The study estimates that the financial impact is tens of billions of dollars across the research enterprise. What I would like you to help us focus on is while the CARES Act provided some funding for science agencies, it fell well short of the need and was focused specifically on COVID research. And likewise, the funding being considered as part of the current reconciliation package is focused on COVID-related research. The bill text should be published probably very soon, but the RISE Act will help, I think, tremendously. But what I'd like each of you to point out, we've got all the problems on the table and all the concerns. Please give us some direct recommendations that we can utilize and make sure that we don't deteriorate this enterprise anymore. I can start wherever you'd like. Dr.--yes. Is Dr. Levine still---- Dr. Levine. Yes, I'm here. I can---- Chairwoman Johnson. OK. Dr. Levine. I can start first. Yes, I can. You know, I think you have [inaudible] joined the research community in your command of exactly what we seek for supporting the research enterprise from high-energy physics to education research from field sites and studies to experimental studies in the social and behavioral sciences. And the money and the support for flexible funding is really imperative. Not only do we need to widen the net of those who can receive particularly early career flexible kinds of grants, for example, those that were part of the National Science Foundation Career-Life Balance (CLB) supplemental funding offered ways of supplementing for the kinds of things that researchers have lost. They may need childcare support. They indeed may need some additional counseling. They may need bandwidth to do some of the social networking worldwide that has been limited. The one thing I would say as a concrete recommendation while I praise CLB, it is a supplement. Now, were this kind of initiative also to be able to be an early career funding mechanism, you would really be able to widen the scope of scientists across fields of science. Every field of science has taken a hit. And that has also affected building capacity in scientific fields. If I can say for one moment, the deep commitment of this Committee for science education and capacity building at the K-12 level, at the undergraduate level. We need to ensure the talent pool is there to be able to do that teaching across levels of education. They are doing it multi- fold in the past year since the onset of COVID-19. But we hear reports that for those who are teaching, for example, in universities and colleges in more rural locations where the bandwidth may be for their students, that the students ride and sit in a car with the children in the backseat, and they are trying to do online learning. So this has wide-ranging opportunities for this Committee to grapple with in a way that not only advances the enterprise of science but also the next generation of scientists. And that's why I mentioned science literacy. You need to have those skills to develop a modern workforce. Dr. Keane. Yes, Chairwoman Johnson, if I could add into that, this is Chris Keane, thank you for your great summary of the situation, by the way. It was very helpful. Just a couple things. Again, I support the RISE Act, but in thinking about financial relief, I think it's important to bear in mind there are sort of three issues. First, there's direct--relieving direct costs of the pandemic, which tend to squeeze budgets for hiring and everything else. Secondly, there's the 20 to 40 percent you mentioned, which really has to do with the cost of delay for existing projects and displacement of our researchers. Just getting that work done and making up for that loss of productivity in the short term is vital so we don't lose much of our workforce as a result of this crisis. And then the third component of relief is basically the longer-term investment in the R&D enterprise. Again, I would just point out as a stat that, you know, the $25 billion proposed in the RISE Act is less than half the gain that China is making on our [inaudible] expenditure figure every year. And so when you add up those three areas, direct relief from the pandemic, you know, addressing the 20-40 percent impact on our researchers, as well as the long-term issue of enhancing research expenditures and funding generally, it's a big request. We really appreciate your help on this. And just one other point I'd mention we haven't covered yet, the--with respect to diversity and inclusion needing the full benefit of our talents in the United States, that's vital. One thing we need is more data to support that actually, and I believe the STEM Opportunity Act if I recall correctly calls for collecting that data, so I'd urge you, via that act or some other means, to increase the amount of data that we collect on diversity, inclusion, and equity so we can better assess our situation. Thank you. Mr. Quaadman. Chair Johnson, if I could just quickly add as well, you know, we fully support the RISE Act, which is important to address human capital issues, also fully agree as well in terms of the need to help increase Federal research dollars, particularly around basic research. Additionally, we also think it is very important that we also engage in things like IT (information technology) modernization within the government, which is one of the things the pandemic has shown is how we have a great need for IT modernization. And just lastly, the bipartisan leadership that you and Congressman Lucas and this Committee have shown last year in the passage of the artificial intelligence legislation, as well as the America Energy Act, and other legislation, those need to be fully funded and implemented for us to start to deal with some of the longer-range issues as well. Chairwoman Johnson. Well, thank you very much. My time has really expired. I've enjoyed your input and want more, but I've got to now ask Mr. Lucas if he'll do his 5 minutes of questioning. Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Madam Chair. As we've heard today, Mr. Quaadman, the impacts of the COVID pandemic will be particularly detrimental to basic research. And given the fundamental role basic research plays in facilitating applied and developmental research and subsequently new and improved products and services it creates, the losses will likely limit industries' future capacity to innovate and commercialize innovation stemming from scientific advances. Can you discuss how this threat is impacting industry and may impact the United States' future economic competitiveness? Mr. Quaadman. Yes. Thank you, Ranking Member Lucas. This is all to do with America's long-standing competitiveness. We have both China and the European Union, which are greatly increasing their research funding as a means to dislodge American global leadership. While our competitors have also faced some of the constraints because of COVID-19, we really need to address some of the issues in terms of funding. We also need to address other ancillary issues such as the ability to [inaudible] R&D expensing by the private sector so that we can continue to grow the private-sector role in this as well. But I would just raise one last point as well. The country that leads in innovation is the country that also sets the rules and builds the products that are based upon that innovation. That is the traditional role the United States has played, and that is not a role that we would want to cede to other countries that may not share the same values that we do in terms of coming up with those rules. Mr. Lucas. Continuing with you, Mr. Quaadman, on February 2nd the Executive Vice President of the Chamber of Commerce, Neil Bradley sent a letter to President Biden and Members of Congress. And in this letter he warned against the use of reconciliation to pass the American Rescue Plan and stated, ``Such an approach will certainly make it more difficult to reach bipartisan agreement on other policy priorities.'' Can you elaborate on why the majority's budget reconciliation process has been so detrimental in any progress toward bipartisan solutions for American families, businesses, and communities? Mr. Quaadman. Yes, thank you for that question, Ranking Member Lucas. First off, the four COVID relief bills that have passed before this legislation were bipartisan in nature. We believe that, you know, with the Democratic view of relief being broad-based and for Republican views that it be more targeted and temporary, that a synthesis of those views will lead to better legislation. Additionally, we don't think that the political well should be poisoned where we have to deal with other important pieces of legislation that are going to have to be bipartisan in nature such as infrastructure. The last point I would say with the reconciliation process, what the reconciliation process does is it creates the dollar figure, and then the policy needs to follow that dollar figure. We would rather see that we come up with what the right policies are and then determine what the dollar figure is after that. Mr. Lucas. Dr. Keane, in essentially my last question, in your written testimony you highlighted the important role land- grant institutions have played in working in close collaboration with local, State, and national public health authorities officials to ramp up COVID testing. And I will acknowledge I'm especially excited to hear about the great work Oklahoma State University did in developing testing capacity for both its campus and the State of Oklahoma. Can you please discuss the mission of land-grant institutions and how it becomes even more important when facing this pandemic or pandemics of this type in the future? Dr. Keane. Thank you, Ranking Member Lucas, for that very nice question. Yes, I completely agree with you that the mission of our land grants is just--its importance has been highlighted by this pandemic. As you know, that mission is threefold: teaching, research, and service. And never have they been more important. And in fact on the teaching side our faculty and staff have risen to that challenge despite rising enrollments and getting used to the virtual world, extra [inaudible]. They have risen to the challenge and continue to educate our students. In the research world we've heard about, as you discussed, the things we've done in testing as a service that's provided to our local communities, and that's been very important. For example, here in Washington State the WSU, our testing facility is looking at the community in terms of supporting the spread of disease and the community understanding that, but also we're directly testing wastewater from our elementary schools, which supports the ability of our schools to open in fact. So there's a direct community benefit there. And finally, in service, the third part of our mission through extension, that's a huge part of what we do here in Washington State, at Oklahoma State, and many other land grants. We have a presence in every county where we aid our citizens every day and numerous other programs in that area. So all in all, the pandemic has just highlighted this critical mission of service, research, and teaching at the land grants in numerous ways. The APLU has a particular report on this subject. There's more information and numerous specific examples on their website [inaudible] and our other land-grant institutions, so thank you for the opportunity to express the importance of these institutions. Mr. Lucas. And probably it's underappreciated how important President Lincoln's signature on the Morrill Act in-- -- Dr. Keane. Yes. Mr. Lucas. --1862 and the ability for non-wealthy Americans, average Americans scattered around to begin the availability of a public education. Thank you, Doctor. I yield back, Madam Chair. Staff. Ms. Stevens is next. Ms. Stevens. Great, thank you. This has been a very thorough hearing so far, and the testimonies have been absolutely tremendous. I represent Michigan, and we've seen this at Oakland University with 59 percent of Oakland University's research labs being operational, 25 percent face-to-face, and the impacts at the university level. Tom, in particular, I appreciated your testimony where you touched on the collective R&D efforts coming from the Federal Government, the Federal Government corporations, as well as from universities. And we know we're continuing [inaudible], right? We funded the NSF, you know, as a government and appropriated it, and we certainly also appreciate the Chamber's support of the American rescue package and the triage work that we need to do to continue to save lives and bring our economy back. Thank you for your partnership there. Dr. Parikh, I would love to talk with you. You have a-- just a fabulous background, and we so appreciate your leadership of AAAS. You know, we love the publication. I get it every week. Your testimony was quite thorough. One of the things I'd love to drill down on with you is regarding what we're actually talking about here, which is our basic R&D spend, right, in terms of what's being lost with the applications. Have you at all taken a look at the TRL, the technology readiness levels, particularly as we're in that, you know, early stage of technology readiness and that as we move forward to application? Because we do the basic R&D, and we know we're losing it. You know, we love your formula. You know, if we've got a formula down on the percentage, but have you at all taken a look at the technology readiness levels at all in terms of the impacts of COVID-19? Dr. Parikh. We haven't specifically, but we have a team that can do that kind of analysis. I'd be happy to come back to you with that. What we have--when you think about it, it's--in its simplest form, it's a conveyor belt, right? And so as this thing--as we have things that are moving from basic research, through development, through applied, through product, when we have this disruption that is COVID-19, it's the same thing with people. What ends up happening is you get a logjam in that conveyor belt. Yes, we have the funding for next year. You might ask, well, why can't we just use the funding from next year to continue this work? You can except there are students that are piling up behind the students that are currently here. There are products piling up, there are technologies piling up, and we've got to make sure that we're unclogging that conveyor belt. Ms. Stevens. Yes, we want to take a look at that because as we move into the application phase--and where I am in the world of this is, you know, intensive automotive, right, what's taking place with the proliferation of electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles. We're obviously also [inaudible] with the supply chain disruptions and what we've seen taking place with this chip shortage. Now, I've got a bill on that, the Resilient Supply Chain Task Force Act, which helps us monitor the ongoing health of our supply chains. But the next phase of what we're looking at here is production, and we have got to be making in America. We know this, but you don't just get to say let's make it in America, right? You have to do the basic R&D. Dr. Parikh. Absolutely. Ms. Stevens. Then you got to look at your technology readiness. So I'd really love for you to follow up with me on that. And I'm going to be generous to my colleagues because I love them and there's a great group here on both sides of the aisle that's here today. And I got about a minute left, but we got a lot of people online, so I'm going to cede the rest of my time, Madam Chair, and I will also say Chairwoman Johnson is spot on with having this hearing right now, and thank you. I yield back. Chairwoman Johnson. Thank you very much. Next? Staff. Mr. Perlmutter is next. Chairwoman Johnson. OK. Mr. Perlmutter. Don't we want a Republican to go before me? Staff. I'm sorry, sir. Mr. Brooks is next. Unidentified speaker. And I may be next as well? Staff. Mr. Posey is next. Mr. Posey. Thank you, Chairwoman Johnson and Ranking Member Lucas, for holding this hearing. It's important to ensure that American science and technology research remains the best in the world. This pandemic has dramatically disrupted life for Americans, and we need to do whatever we can to return things to normal. My question is for all of the witnesses. You know, as mentioned, there's been significant disruptions in our STEM and research pipelines to our universities by COVID-19 pandemic, but perhaps the most concerning disruption has occurred far earlier in this vital pipeline. Just last week in our last hearing we heard about some of the effects of school closure on our students. My colleagues and I drafted a letter to our wonderful Chairwoman requesting a hearing on the concerns that too many of our K-12 schools remain closed when science says that they can reopen safely. Even before COVID-19 universities were concerned that U.S. students were not prepared for the rigor of STEM education that are necessary to advance America's research and development projects in schools as opposed to others where schools are already reopened, as in China. What will happen when an entire generation of American students are further behind than their international peers? You know, will our U.S. colleges and universities simply fill the STEM slots with more foreign students? I think it's around 36 percent right now. Should K-12 schools be reopened or should we just accept the damages to the U.S. STEM research pipeline as part of the pandemic's cost? And you can respond I guess in the same order that you gave your opening testimonies with Dr. Parikh first. Dr. Parikh. Thank you, Mr. Posey. K-12 education is so critical to the science and engineering enterprise. We have to have a broad pipeline at the beginning because every signal that is sent to a young student accumulates over time. And so when a young person is told, you know, maybe science is not for you, maybe you're better at the arts or you're better at something else, that really hurts us every time that happens to a young girl, every time it happens to a young man, every time it happens to somebody who has grown up on a farm or every time it's happened to somebody who's grown up in an inner-city. And so we've got to make sure that we're sending the right signals. On opening schools, it's a complex question. I will leave that to my public-health counterparts as opposed to me, a biochemist, but what I would say is that all the things that can be done to get us to the place where we can--vaccination, doing the right public-health interventions like wearing masks, maintaining social distance, doing all those things will get us there faster than not doing those interventions. I think it's critically important to do that. But education, we have got to make sure we're investing in that K-12 group beyond just the pandemic. We've got to get them doing science, and we've got to get kids doing science that are not our usual suspects because if we do that, we're never going to compete on sheer numbers with China. We've got to have all of our kids working toward STEM education and STEM fields. Mr. Posey. Dr. Keane? Dr. Keane. Yes, I--this is Chris Keane. Thank you for that question. As--you know, land-grant universities, as part of our service mission, as I mentioned earlier, do a lot of activities to support our K-12 education. Our extension programs provide programs for K-12 students, and also we take opportunities just to invite K-12 students in to see the exciting things that we do in research and education, get them excited about going to college---- Mr. Posey. I don't want to cut you short, but we're short on time. Just kind of like your response to the questions I asked if possible. Dr. Keane. OK. I'll--yes, I'll stop there then. Sorry about that. I would just point out that, you know, our--like I said earlier our testing activity directly supports return to school. Thank you. Mr. Posey. Thank you very much. Dr. Levine. Well, thank you for the opportunity of being able to speak to K-12 education. I just want to underscore with what Dr. Parikh opened with that we want to use--and indeed the great investment of work on COVID-19 at the Institute of Education Sciences in the Department of Education, Education and Human Resources Directorate at the National Science Foundation--that COVID work. In addition to the work at the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the health sciences this research also gives us wisdom and understanding about how to implement a return to school in safe and secure ways that include the collection of data so that we know what happens in real time, the possibility being discussed, so, for example, a PULSE survey around education, around absenteeism that would continue to implement measures of testing and to take the wisdom also of educators, teachers, counselors, and the school system about what can work in what ways. And we clearly need to go back to innovating. And this is an opportunity for both research and education to innovate in such a way that we can--that we can bring our children back into a school environment to interact with their peers, to be able to not only engage in science, which is extraordinarily important, but in the other ways in which in the K-12 system children are learning about ways of working together, collaborating together, so important for the STEM workforce, and we need to recognize that there were tremendous inequities [inaudible]. And how we do this, the kind of queuing that I must say my colleague the biochemist spoke wonderfully about expectancy of things and implicit bias so that in my generation the most accomplished of my peers was a woman who wanted to go to medical school but it was implicitly and explicitly discouraged as ``not for women,'' and she ended up going to law school and being a great lawyer and having a wonderful career. That kind of expectancy effect and sadly implicit bias continues in particular for persons of color and for women. Mr. Quaadman. Mr. Posey, I'll be very quick. I know your time is expired, but, you know, the letter that Chambers sent to Congress this week on the American Rescue Plan included a section in there regarding school reopening, which we support. We made a suggestion of money being set aside solely for covering the expenses of those school reopenings and dealing with COVID cleanups and protecting children from COVID, but that the opening decisions need to be left to the States and the local districts. Staff. Thank you. And Mr. Perlmutter is next. Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. And just a couple questions because we do have a lot of people in the queue. I represent the suburbs of Denver, and we have a lot of laboratories, national labs, Energy, NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration), NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology), USGS (United States Geological Survey) in the area. And as an example--and I'd like to get kind of an answer from all of you--the retooling costs associated with sort of reducing, you know, the number of researchers in a lab, so, for instance, the National Renewable Energy Lab has some 2,500 employees and contractors, and when they had to shut down more or less in March, April, and May of last year, they went from, say, 2,500 down to 100 and then have been gradually returning the workforce. So I know as part of this package we're trying to make up for some of those lost costs. Have any of you thought about the retooling cost to get our labs back and operating at 100 percent? And maybe, Mr. Quaadman, you want to kind of take a cut at that first and then I'll go to the other panelists? Mr. Quaadman. Sure, thank you very much, Mr. Perlmutter, and that's--that is an excellent question. And we view this that there are probably going to have to be multiple things that are going to have to be done. Clearly, the RISE Act, which we support and I think everybody here supports, is an important part of particularly protecting that human capital talent and making sure we're getting that back up and running, but you also make an excellent point in terms of the technology in the labs. We believe that there's more that is going to have to be done there. Additionally, putting more of an emphasis around basic research and applied research is going to be an important part of that. So we believe dealing with some of these short-term problems can actually help us pivot to also address some of the long-term problems, so we think this focus that this hearing is having today is an important start of that process. Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. Dr. Parikh, do you have any thoughts on that? Dr. Parikh. I do, thank you, Mr. Perlmutter. Well, first of all, the research going on at NREL (National Renewable Energy Laboratory) is so important to the Nation. You know, going down to 100 people for a time in March means that when there's an experiment going--there are--every type of experiment--every type of experiment has--that is a long-term experiment has constant check-ins by people. As much as the technology is powerful, it requires people checking things in. And because we had to shut down so quickly, planning was tough, right, so if we had tissue culture that was ongoing, we would take that down and we would--instead of having many, many petri dishes full of tissue culture, we would take it down to one and freeze it and save it for when we come back. But then when you come back, you got to grow it back out again before you can do any research at all. And that takes time, it takes people, and it takes reagents, it takes the lab space, and so it takes funding, it takes resources. And so as Dr. Quaadman said, the investment that we make here at this sort of inflection point is going to pay short-term dividends and long-term dividends. Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. I'd like to change the subject just a little bit for Dr. Levine and Dr. Keane in terms of the students. So in the front range of Colorado we have the School of Mines and University of Colorado. CSU (Colorado State University) has a big infectious disease lab that has been operating. In terms of the talent pool and this pipeline of young scholars, again--and you've answered this already, but just specifically what has sort of this delay of a year done to that pipeline? And I'd start with you, Dr. Levine. Dr. Levine. Well, I think the delay of a year has had several adverse impacts. One, even the workforce, the talent in labs, structured labs or even the broader laboratories of field research doing intervention studies, while there's been a tremendous amount of really exciting work ongoing, as Dr. Parikh underscored earlier, innovation and collaboration to try to do things in a very different way, there is that loss of not working hand-in-hand, not being able to bring in, not having the support to bring in the postdocs, the layered way in which science occurs. The laboratory is an environment where the undergraduate-- I started my research career as an undergraduate working with doctoral students, working with postdocs and with faculty. That kind of exchange does not happen and has not happened in the same way, and it's going to take an investment. It's also going to take an investment in things like REUs, research experiences for undergraduates, and that kind of investment can make a difference. But I think the consequence is substantial. Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you, Doctor. And Dr. Keane, I'm sorry, my time is expired. Somebody else will get to you. Staff. Thank you. Mr. Sessions is next. Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. And I want to thank each of our panelists for being here today. Certainly, Dr. Keane, Dr. Parikh, Dr. Levine, thank you. Thomas, thank you, I think it's Quaadman, we appreciate you being here. The question that I have focuses on giving people money while we're still closed, and I'd like for you to address that in your own way because I think this money should be given when people open, not when people stay closed. Anyone of you, please. Mr. Quaadman. Well, Mr. Sessions, I--you know, I guess I could take an early crack at that. Look, we believe--this is one of the reasons why I gave the answer that I did to Ranking Member Lucas is that we think that there should--there needs to be a discussion of, you know, the broad range of potential policy initiatives that we need to address the COVID vaccine. So part of the reason why we do need broad-based relief is to deal with small businesses that are teetering on the brink of closure, some permanently---- Mr. Sessions. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I made a mistake, Tom. As it relates to the RISE bill. Mr. Quaadman. Sure. So I was just going to get there. And with the RISE Act what we need to do is to make sure that we are keeping the human capital in place, that we can have that human capital move forward as we open up those labs so that we can flip that switch and get things up and running because, unfortunately, what has happened over the last year is because there's some work that can be done, right, in terms of research paper or the like, but there's other type of experimentation which cannot be done, and we need to get up and running as quickly as possible not only to keep pace with our competitors but actually to get up and running before they can. Mr. Sessions. Yes, well, I understand competition, but I also heard our panelists say it's up to States and local people, universities. For instance, I represent a small university, Texas A&M down in College Station, that is one of the leading, I believe, research and development universities in the world. But my point is if they make a decision to stay closed, let's say, until January of next year, that means that they have students that are dropping out, that means students that are going somewhere else. The question is do we fund them before they open? Dr. Parikh. Mr. Sessions, if I may, the students we're talking about funding here are the graduate students in the sciences and engineering and, you know, they are--they're working right now. They are writing research papers. They are doing what they can with labs at half capacity and that sort of thing. The challenge becomes this conveyor belt that I've been talking about. So you have these students are working right now and we've got to keep them--they're in this holding pattern. And then we got students coming up right behind them. And if we lose those students because they say, you know what, I don't-- science and engineering is hard enough anyway. I'm not going to make a whole lot of money when I first graduate, maybe I should go be a lawyer, I should go into something else, when that depletion of that human capital that Dr. Quaadman was talking about is so critical to us right now because every other nation on earth is investing in that human capital. If we bleed that human capital in the short term, the money appropriated a year from now won't do the same thing as the money appropriated today. Mr. Sessions. OK. I do understand this, but we're kind of dancing around this. Look, I spent a number of years at Bell Labs in New Jersey. My son just finished medical school a couple years ago. I get graduate medical education (GME). I do get these are the brightest and best. Why do we want to delay anything or make it more difficult? That's not my point. Should a university or a program receive money before they open? Dr. Keane. So, Representative Sessions, thank you for that question. This is Chris Keane. Just--I know time is short, just a quick example. So, as you've heard, we have continued a lot of operations virtually, but take a laboratory just as a very simple example. A laboratory had to close because of COVID. On the other hand, some of the students and faculty could go home and write papers and write grant proposals and do other work that they, you know, normally wouldn't have the time to do if they were in the lab, so these folks do a lot of critical work, and so they can do [inaudible] of work at home. Mr. Sessions. OK. Let the record reflect that we're not sure about whether--I know people are doing work. I did work during this, too. I think we ought to consider that the inducement for going back to work, because that's a question, you get the money when you produce that, and that means you make a series of decisions about your workforce including making sure they all have the COVID vaccine. We've heard testimony in this Committee how the vaccine works, and just a week or two ago we heard that the vaccine is the No. 1 thing you can do. And then you have a safe workplace, a whole lot of other things. I'm just saying in my mind going back I don't mind funding that, but I do have problems with not finding a way to get back to work, which is what we were paying for. So I appreciate the opportunity for each of you. I would expect you to be advocates, as I am, for the sciences, for GME, graduate medical education, graduate education, and all of the mathematic and physics programs. But I think we ought to put a caveat in there when you go back to work. Thank you very much. I yield back my time, Madam Chairman. Staff. Mr. McNerney is next. Mr. McNerney. Am I recognized? Staff. Yes, sir. Mr. McNerney. Thank you. Well, I want to thank the Chairwoman for holding this hearing and the Ranking Member, very good, and also the panelists. I appreciate your work here. Dr. Keane, in your testimony you state that in order to comply with Federal grant financial timeframes, many projects are having to close out without meeting their stated goals. What is needed to help grant awardees get the time and resources needed to make up for the COVID-related setbacks? Dr. Keane. Thanks for that question, Representative McNerney. I think--it's a great question. I think the comments you've heard from the Committee and elsewhere about the 20 to 40 percent, which was developed by a number of our APLU members, that's sort of--that's an estimate, you know, of the loss of work due to delay. I think one can make some estimates of what the financing is to recover that, I think that basically is a short summary of what's needed. Mr. McNerney. Well, thank you. Well, Dr. Keane, in normal times before the pandemic, the life of a science researcher may have been professionally rewarding but was financially challenging. And I speak from personal experience here. Graduate students must forgo well-paying jobs for about a decade while their peers move ahead financially. And meanwhile, the grad students have no assurance at all of landing a modest or secure job at the conclusion of their studies. And I know Dr. Parikh sort of talked about this, but how does the pandemic impact this dynamic? Dr. Keane. Yes, well, it's--yes. No, I was going to say, certainly, Representative McNerney, the pandemic has been difficult on graduate students, postdocs and others, and it's-- we've lost some critical talent there. And so we've tried to adapt by doing various things virtually and things of that sort, but it is a significant issue. Mr. McNerney. Well, thank you. Mr. Quaadman, I'm interested in understanding what's worked in leveraging R&D to help us bring the virus under control. In your testimony you mentioned the COVID-19 High Performance Computing Consortium. How did that collaboration come about, what did it accomplish, and what lessons do you think could be applied to future crises? Mr. Quaadman. Thank you very much, Mr. McNerney. And I appreciate the promotion but I'm not a doctor. I have a J.D. but not a doctorate. But first, I would also like to thank your leadership and the leadership of Mr. Gonzalez of the Artificial Intelligence Caucus as well, which has been very critical. I actually think the COVID-19 High Performance Computing Consortium is a very interesting development, right, where we had the private sector through Amazon, Google, IBM, Microsoft combining with National Science Foundation, Department of Energy, along with MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology), UT (University of Texas) Austin, and the University of Wisconsin where they created a sharing mechanism of computing power to help in terms of research regarding COVID-19. Part of the challenge that we have with R&D is also to ensure that smaller actors and smaller businesses have some of that access to let's say computing power as an example in terms of their R&D. So if we can create similar sharing mechanisms-- and frankly, the National Artificial Intelligence Act that was passed last year creates some frameworks like this--it actually allows us to have a much more comprehensive approach to R&D, and we hope that is replicated elsewhere. Mr. McNerney. Well, thank you. Well, last week, millions around the globe watched in high definition as NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) successfully landed the Perseverance rover on Mars. Landing a rover on another planet is a huge accomplishment in any time but must be more difficult under a pandemic. Dr. Parikh, how have conditions under COVID challenged this type of high-pressure mission-critical event for large, distributed research and engineering teams? Dr. Parikh. It's been incredibly challenging, and that's why it's even more compelling and more inspiring to watch the video from last week. The way it's happened is that people have had to work in the same that we are, right? They're working over Zoom, they're working over Webex in contrast to being in the same room, drawing on a piece of paper, and that makes it harder. But I can tell you that the inspiration that comes from watching these engineering teams double-check and triple-check their work because they are having to work this way, I think it also just highlights what a small team of diverse people can do in competition with gigantic teams around the world is just extraordinary to see that type of inspirational work. And the science that's going to come from it is amazing as well. But just the engineering feat of landing on Mars is--look, my kids--my 11-year-old, that's what gets him excited about science. They like biochemistry, but they love that. Mr. McNerney. Well, they don't want to go to Mars themselves. At any rate, I want to yield back and I thank again the Chairwoman for yielding to me. Staff. Mr. Webster is recognized. Mr. Webster. Thank you, Chair. I had a question to Dr. Parikh. So we're in competition not with just ourselves but with other countries, especially in the area of STEM and, you know, trying to make sure we're there, we're setting the pace, we're out front, all of that, and somebody was talking about losing potential STEM stars to a law degree or some other profession. Are we also losing to our competition? Are there countries that we're losing out or people are getting [inaudible] research dollars, something like that, and moving? Is that happening? Dr. Parikh. It is happening. So we see--just overall, you know, the NSF puts out the science and engineering indicators, and the U.S. global share of science and engineering publications has always been ahead of everybody else. Well, that is not true anymore. China has overtaken us. It's also been in terms of number of S&E degrees that are awarded. But they also have very, very targeted programs to recruit stars from Europe and from the United States and then to also keep talent within their borders. And, look, there are challenges to that in terms of intellectual property and that sort of thing, but even if everything was fair, what it says is they've got--they've got a plan, and plan beats no plan almost every time, and so we have to have a plan. We have to be making sure that we are doing our absolute best to recruit the best talent from the United States whether it be from the farm belt, the sun belt, or the coast, and also the best talent from around the world. We have been the beneficiaries of a crossroads of talent here in the United States, and we cannot let that pass. We are still right there at the top, but we are in danger. We are in real danger of losing that position because all these successes that we've talked about, they're lagging indicators of previous investment and all the stuff that's gone on for the last 30 years. It's not a--it's not any guarantee of what's to come. Mr. Webster. Thank you, sir. Dr. Levine. If I could amplify just on that, I really want to underscore that our leadership edge in science has been very well-served by the United States really being an international leader in the international community of science, so we lose our competitive edge when scientists and scholars and students from other parts of the world don't look to us as the educative environment to do what they do best. And whether they remain in the United States or they go to other locations, that significantly affects not only the knowledge we produce but the sense of centrality we are in the international community. I'm not an economist by training, but my sense of some of the work on patents is that when a country has had the highest participation of the international community in our higher education system, that we have--that has enabled discoveries in our own country. And that's just one example of something I think we need to really be looking at and a point I earlier wanted to make but you've asked the right question at the right time. Mr. Webster. OK. Well, there's this conveyor belt that's jammed up all over the place and there's STEM students in high school and all the way to postdoctorate, all that, so shouldn't we put our money where the bleeding is and try to stop the bleeding if we're prioritizing? Is that a good statement to make? Dr. Parikh. I think that's absolutely a good statement. We should prioritize. We should prioritize. And I think human capital is right there at the top. Making sure that we have the supply chains fixed as well is right there after it and by supply chains I mean, in terms of bringing back the infrastructure, bringing back the technology, bringing it back online. But human capital is at the top of my list. Mr. Webster. All right. I yield back. Staff. Mr. Tonko is next. Mr. Tonko. Thank you. And I thank you, Madam Chair, and our Ranker for today's hearing. It's so apropos that we be talking about the future here--through this lens. And to all of our witnesses, thank you. Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, we have seen and experienced for ourselves the impact this virus is having on work, on America's workers throughout our economy, and on workplaces across the country. For many, video meetings and conference calls had to quickly become the status quo. For others, much of their work simply cannot be done remotely. The ability of scientists to advance their research remotely depends in large part, I believe, on the nature of their project and their discipline. For instance, research involving computations, data analyses and modeling and simulations lends itself more easily to work from home, but it is difficult if not impossible to conduct research requiring physical and biological samples and specialized equipment outside of a laboratory. And so, Dr. Parikh, what areas of scientific inquiry have been most negatively impacted by COVID? And how are you seeing the researchers adapting to that? Dr. Parikh. Yes, thank you for the question, Mr. Tonko. You are absolutely right. You laid it out very well in terms of the challenges to field research, the challenges to clinical research, the challenges to research that happens in a lab bench because, you know, if you've been in these laboratories you know that, especially in the successful ones, they're dense, right? We have graduate students and postdocs and scientists who are working together, and they're dense for a reason. We want them talking. We want them collaborating. We want them to run into each other on the way to the restroom and talk about math and physics and biology at the same time because that's where the excitement comes from. And so that--we are definitely hurting in the experimental sciences and in the clinical sciences. And in the places where we have pivoted our critical sciences to COVID, it's an opportunity cost, right? We have work going on in Alzheimer's and work going on in cancer and work going on in sickle-cell anemia. That's got to keep going as well, and we've got to make sure that we're able to ensure that continues. But I don't want to underestimate the impact also on things like physics. You know, being able to continue work on some of these amazing radio telescopes, you know, our ability to contact to the Voyager space probes was affected by this. We couldn't send 30 people to Australia to work on the antenna. We could only send five or six. And so there's a real cost across the sciences, but the experimental sciences are definitely where the biggest challenges are. Mr. Tonko. Thank you. And, Dr. Parikh, again, for fields of inquiry that have been able to adapt more easily to working remotely, do you see any opportunities where this could spur greater collaboration and innovation? Dr. Parikh. Oh, my gosh, you know, we have seen--if there's been one upside to the pandemic, it has been that collaboration from peer to peer in the United States and around the world has just grown exponentially. You see young scientists talking to one another in the United States, in Europe, in China, in Japan. They're having conversations. And look, we need that because, again, COVID is not our last crisis, and we need to know that these scientists who are able to talk to each other right now, that's a relationship, and that relationship is going to continue for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, and that is--that's incredibly important. We've got to keep up our part of it, though, as the United States and make sure we've got wonderful scientists here bringing everybody to us. Mr. Tonko. Thank you. The COVID-19 crisis has resulted in many setbacks, and it will take our enduring commitment to help America's scientific research community recover. And to this end, last year, the Federal Government provided guidance, as well as administrative and salary flexibilities for universities and COVID relief legislation, including that which funded support research agencies. But based on your testimony-- and I can confirm this based on my conversations with research institutions in my district in upstate New York--greater support is needed. So, Dr. Keane, in your testimony you mentioned the administrative flexibilities that the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) provided to universities from March to September of last year. To what extent did these flexibilities from our Federal agencies, especially related to grant commitments, help mitigate the impact of the coronavirus pandemic? Dr. Keane. Thanks, Representative Tonko, for that question. Those flexibilities were very important to our faculty, students, and staff. They allowed things, for example, to, you know, to cover cost of PPE (personal protective equipment) and other unusual items. They allowed salaries to be paid. Under certain conditions [inaudible] working at home perhaps on different project than the contract. So it was essential to help transition through. And there's been a lot of interest as part of the recovery package trying to do something along those lines for--thank you. Mr. Tonko. Well, thank you, Dr. Keane. And with that, my time has wound down, so I yield back, Madam Chair. Staff. Mr. Garcia is next. Mr. Garcia, you are muted. Mr. Garcia, you are muting and unmuting. I'm not sure if you're using a spacebar or if you're using---- Mr. Garcia. There we go. Can we--can you hear me now? Staff. Yes. Staff. Yes, sir. Mr. Garcia. OK. All right, thank you. I apologize for that. Dr. Parikh, I think you hit on something earlier that we all kind of glossed over, and that's the RISE Act deters the proliferation of lawyers, and I think we should rename it as such. I want to focus in the realm of national security. We have roughly 44, 40 percent of our national R&D project is coming out of the national security realm, the labs, the DARPAs (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agencies) of the world. National security is relative, right, so as we either accelerate or decelerate relative to China and other threats, that's where threats will manifest, and that's where our weaknesses will become vulnerabilities. How are we able to compare how we're doing within classified realms, especially-- but through our labs like DARPA and, relative to, say, the Communist Chinese military science research steering divisions? Do you have any insight how we're doing at the national security levels of both military and similar infrastructure investments? And I think, Dr. Keane, it sounds like you were touching on this earlier, but let's start with you. Dr. Keane. Yes, thank you. Thank you for that question, Representative Garcia. I think your question points out the vital importance of the research enterprise and the universities produce the young talent that goes to work in the national security enterprise. I have my own personal experience that's in the nuclear weapons program where there is just tremendous issues, you know, bringing in talent. As you probably know, the big labs right now, Livermore, Los Alamos, and so on are trying to hire 1,000 people a year to support the refurbishment of our stockpile, so this just speaks to the important mission that our universities and research ecosystems play in training these professionals to handle these national security challenges. Mr. Garcia. Yeah, but I think what I'm asking is how much insight do we have relative to China? Are they struggling in the same way that we are percentagewise? I think you mentioned that the rise of investments from the Federal Government on our side represents about half of what---- Dr. Keane. Yes. Mr. Garcia. China is accelerating to our pace of over the last couple of years. That statement there, one, where is the data behind that statement, and how do we assess how much of an impact either COVID or the lack of investments writ large outside of COVID are having relative to the Chinese infrastructure investments? Dr. Keane. So I don't have any data relative to Chinese infrastructure, Representative Garcia, but the data I quoted is from the NSB (National Science Board) indicators 2020. If you look at that, you'll find a plot that basically shows R&D expenditures by country with China rising rapidly and the others, including the United States, relatively flat or only moderately rising. Just a quick statistic, you know, from I believe it was 2000 to 2017 China's average annual rate of increase has been 17 percent in expenditures, and ours is 4, 4.5 percent. That pretty much summarizes it. Mr. Garcia. OK. And then so how do we ensure that these significant investments that we're making in the COVID packages are actually also gaining traction in the classified programs area, significant military development efforts that may not be enveloped in DOD (Department of Defense) programs of record quite yet? Some of these are at the university level, some of these are in labs. How do we ensure that these big dollars, these chunks of money being spent on COVID are actually still going through in support of our national security interests? Dr. Keane. Well, quickly, I'll say the university side, our primary connection was training workforce and so improving our infrastructure allows us to train better people in all fields, and people's careers change when they enter the national security word, so we do the fundamental training. I'll leave it to others to comment on the infrastructure in the national security world. Dr. Parikh. Mr. Garcia, I can speak a little bit to this. You know, the--there are two things at play here. One is the funding you're talking about in terms of how do we make sure that the national security research apparatus also sees some of this funding? I think that's very important. You're right. Approximately half, almost half of the--of our research dollars end up in some way going through national security. My thought here is that we need to make sure that part of the scientific enterprise also sees these dollars because it's--that will also flow to the universities because they are the workhorses of that enterprise as well. The other impact is on people, and if you look at China, you know, you were noting those dollars. The other thing to note is that they produce lots of scientists and engineers. And so when Dr. Keane talks about we need 1,000 hires a year at our national laboratories, it's easier when you're producing a lot more talent. And we're bringing that talent--we have to import some of that talent in addition to what's on the ground here, so we've got to do--it speaks again to that human capital aspect but also making sure that the full half of our enterprise that is defense-related needs to also see that funding. Mr. Garcia. Yes. Yes, OK. Dr. Levine. If I could just add, one of the things that I think supports that infrastructure that we're talking about at the national security level is that if you look at the National Science Foundation indicators, locations like China have also invested substantially in building the talent pool to study the human resource issue, meaning the social and behavioral sciences have really grown in locations like China. One of the areas internationally that is so central is work on the workforce. We've more or less disinvested in research on the workforce, and we support that activity, the investments in each of the Defense Departments and the social and behavioral sciences is not what it was 10 years ago, and there's often debates about really important activities like the Minerva Research Initiative that not national security research, but the knowledge base from that done in universities really has a tremendous value to our national security interests, I think that's part of the mosaic that you're asking about. Mr. Garcia. Yes, absolutely. OK. Thank you all. I yield back. Staff. Mr. Foster is next. Mr. Foster. OK. Am I audible and visible here? Staff. Yes. Mr. Foster. Well, thank you. And thank you to our Chairwoman, Ranking Member, and our witnesses. I'd like to speak a little bit about Federal careers as potential jobs for early career researchers. Drs. Keane and Levine, you both highlighted in your testimonies that there were high levels of uncertainty in students and postgraduates with regard to future research opportunities due to COVID. Now, pre-COVID, as my colleagues know, I was very active as a leader of the National Labs Caucus where I would drag my colleagues on visits to the national labs, including the national security labs. And during these visits, we would often arrange luncheons with young scientists and engineers who were getting things done, having a wonderful time, but there were simply not enough of them. It was reasonably suggested by a professor friend of mine that there might right now be a real appetite amongst graduating STEM students, both graduate and undergraduate, to take STEM jobs in the government. Part of this is because of the Administration's renewed emphasis on science and scientific integrity and policy but also due to the genuine bipartisan support in this Committee and in Congress for ramping up Federal science funding over the next decade, which might make a career path in the Federal oversight of a growing science program more appealing than it may have been previously. So, first, do you believe that this appetite exists? And if so, how do we capitalize on it? Dr. Levine. I think that's a tremendously important question and I'm going to say opportunity. I should, I suppose, disclose that I myself went to the National Science Foundation as a visiting scientist for 3 years and stayed for 11. The opportunities with the scientific workforce within government, including actually in many State governmental agencies and institutions, is just enormous, and I think that having an understanding of those career ladders, that you are not stepping out, you're stepping in, that these are significant science jobs where you can have very productive careers and that kind of synergism also between the academy and higher education and these laboratories needs to be amplified and supported, postdoc programs and other instruments that at this point in time, if the jobs are there, I think it's a great way of bringing some of the silos--you know, some of the silos together, and I [inaudible] raising it. Mr. Foster. Yes. Well, do you think, for example, a virtual job fair highlighting the STEM jobs that are available across the many agencies of the Federal Government would be well-received right now? Dr. Levine. Absolutely. Absolutely love it. And some of the agencies we work with at the American Educational Research Association--we're planning for our annual meeting, you know, those kinds of opportunities, whether they're visiting physicians or longer-term physicians, we're seeing a lot of handshake around that. And one of the things that's most important to understand is as the jobs have been delayed, denied, put on a back burner, including in higher education, the biggest concern of early career scientists is they don't know what jobs are real and what jobs are not real, so it's kind of incumbent upon us to collectively have this as a priority both in universities and [inaudible]---- Mr. Foster. On a sort of related issue, over the last four years, there's been a well-documented wave of early retirements of STEM professionals in government, you know, with a tremendous loss of accumulated experience and knowledge. Many of these were frankly driven by frustration over policies and proposed budget cuts, which we now are hopeful are going to be reversed. And so what do you think of standing up a program to call back some of these early retirees just for a couple years with the explicit goal of mentoring a next generation of younger and more diverse Federal STEM workforce? Dr. Levine. I think it's a terrific idea. Every year as I get older and older, I underscore how terrific that is. I think that that--a loss of our sort of talent pool even in higher education institutions strapped for resources. And that's not to say those faculty leaders aren't remaining active as scientists, but having some kind of bring-back-mentoring kind of model I think is---- Mr. Foster. Yes. Yes, even if it's just a half-time job, my feeling is that a lot of people would be more than happy to pass their accumulated wisdom to the next generation, you know---- Dr. Levine. And let me say the National Academy of Sciences really capitalized on that kind of model in a noncrisis situation. Scientists from government may work in direct study panels and have various kinds of mixed models. I think you've hit--you know, you've pointed to something really important. Mr. Foster. All right. Well, thank you, and it looks like my timer is down to zero. And I yield back. Staff. Ms. Kim is next. Ms. Kim. Thank you, Chairwoman Johnson, and Ranking Member Lucas, for holding this important hearing. I am concerned that many of the lockdown and remote learning measures has worsened our students' low scores in math and science. Students in grades K through 12 are the future of our STEM talent pipeline, and if they do poorly in subjects like math and science, our talent pool would eventually decrease, along with our competitiveness. As our Nation looks to recover from the COVID- 19 pandemic, we should not forget our STEM students. So I would like to pose a question to all witnesses. How has the COVID-19 crisis impacted our future domestic STEM workforce pipeline, and what are the implications of the potential loss of talent for the United States research and innovation ecosystem and economic competitiveness? Well? Dr. Levine. One of us? I suppose we worry. I--you know, this is a--kind of a point that's been implicit, I think, of all four of our presentations, that we, you know, we worry about what that means in terms of everything from special services that will help deal with some of the socioemotional kinds of crises, and tensions, and ambiguities that early learners are experiencing as family members have died or lost their employment, and how--so that the development of the math, and science, and engineering talent pool needs to be understood in the ecosystem of--in which students and early learners live. We need to be considering what kind of programs that we offer wrapped around, and opportunities equitably and inclusively, around the school year having, or around that--the--this band of time off. What happens with after school programs? How do we invest in early education programs so that they are rich learning environments, and how do we both measure and accommodate learning loss? Staff. Miss---- Dr. Levine. That's a need for--that's a real need for data, also, that would be adjunctive to developing models of-- I'll say models of accelerated compensation for loss this year. Ms. Kim. Yeah, following up on that, Dr. Levine, over the last few years we have made some progress in increasing the number of women in STEM, and when I served in the California State Legislature, I had been one of the strong proponents of especially young girls coming to Sacramento, and in our capital, to also demonstrate the work that they're doing. So this is something that I have a great passion on. But how has the pandemic disproportionately impacted women in academic research, and what steps can this Committee take to address and tackle those roadblocks? Dr. Levine. Well, I--the major way is the context in which students, graduate students, undergraduates, early career scientists, the context in which they live, and the disproportionate burden, particularly on women of color. Broad family responsibility. We'll see this in a number of preliminary--kind of top level findings from our survey, and also our focus groups, as disproportionate child care responsibilities, so that, at the end of the day, one is struggling with how to put the package together, and to, you know, keep the family all aware of what--one illustration was in one of the focus groups someone started the conversation by saying, I'm a faculty member, and I--I'm building upon the work I'm doing in kindergarten teaching, and I thought, I wonder whether she was a kindergarten teacher. And then she was talking about the fact that she was--she had a 5-year-old, and she was spending a big proportion of her day learning how to be a kindergarten teacher. So that has consequences not only for her performance as a scientist, and her ability to engage at the level at which she is capable of performing, but it also affects, you know, let's put it this way, the role modeling of the fact that is cueing about the roles of women. Now, that's not to say that men with family responsibilities aren't also doing a very substantial share. It's just the data also show a--kind of a disproportionality where that stands. Ms. Kim. Well, thank you. I yield back. I notice my time is up now. Thank you very much. Staff. Mr. Beyer is next. Mr. Beyer. Thank you very much, and, Madam Chair, thanks so much for pulling this together, all of our witnesses. Very grateful, very fascinating. Dr. Parikh, I have an intuitive question for you. We've heard through all the different testimonies about how detrimental and deleterious the COVID crisis has been for research, for the careers, or--et cetera, but we've also seen an historic commitment to biology and to genetics through the COVID crisis. Fastest ever vaccines to display--mRNA vaccines. How do you balance the 20-year leap forward in biological sciences against the downsides of the COVID pandemic on research? Dr. Parikh. It's an excellent question, Mr. Beyer. You know, the--if you had asked 2 years ago could we produce a vaccine from, you know, from sequence, to putting it into millions of people in a year, there wouldn't have been many people that said yes. There wouldn't have been many people at all that said yes. I would not have said yes. And so the progress that has been made and demonstrated by the biomedical research community is incredible, and it's inspiring to young people, right? There are people now--there are young kids who say, you know, I want to be, if not Dr. Fauci, then that other scientist. You know, but what I would say is, in doing that, we've raised expectations. We've raised expectations, and here's the problem, is that going into these fields is really tough. And so you've got young people who say, yes, I want to follow in Dr. Fauci's footsteps. Here's the problem, is that I run into this clogging the system that says, you know what, if you can't afford it when the pandemic happens, and you're a graduate student in Cambridge, and you don't have a family safety net to take you back in, then how are you going to continue your graduate studies on that, you know, that very small stipend? So we've got this paradox--I mean, incredible inspiration, and yet the reality of the scientific career doesn't quite match up to that yet. And part of what--yeah, part of what this Committee can do is to help make those things align and match up. Mr. Beyer. Let me interrupt you, only because we're limited to 5 minutes, but I'd love to have the other 30-minute conversation on this. Mr. Quaadman, I come at this from a Ways and Means Member, with my pals Dan Kildee and Gwen Moore, and I'm concerned about, No. 1, the impact of TCJA (Tax Cuts and Jobs Act), that dropped the corporate tax rate from 35 to 21, 22, a quarter don't pay anything. I noticed in your statistics that corporations paid 400 billion in R&D last year, and I looked it up, and there was $525 billion in stock buyback, so 25 percent more in stock buybacks than in research. Do you think moving back to having stock buybacks pre-authorized by the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission) could move us in the right direction on research and development? Mr. Quaadman. So, first off, I would say, as I said in my testimony as well, we do think it is important for that portion of the tax reform bill to be addressed so that we can continue the real time expensive R&D expenses. The only thing I would say in terms of stock buybacks, it's a little bit of an apples and oranges situation, because you have certain businesses that are not involved in R&D, that all they can do is actually give their money back to their investors. So I believe this is something that the SEC is going to probably be looking at after Gary Gensler is confirmed as chair, so we will have to see if-- I think it's a little bit of an apples and oranges issue. Mr. Beyer. By the way, Tom, I agree with you on the immediate expensing of R&D expenses, and that was just one of the things--it wasn't a policy decision. It was forced by the Byrd Rule in order to get TCJA through reconciliation, which I hope we can fix. But, Tom, a larger question--while listening-- going through statistics, and our--your notion that our Federal R&D, the 2.8 percent's the lowest it's been in 60 years as a percentage of GDP, GDP increased from 2010 to 2020 by 22 percent, and our Federal R&D as a percentage of GDP was essentially flat. How do we make a national commitment to Federal R&D as a percentage of GDP so that we say it should be 4 percent, or it should be 5 percent, and make the long-term commitment to that? Mr. Quaadman. Well, Mr. Beyer, I think that is an excellent question, and it actually goes to some of the points that Mr. Garcia was making as well about R&D with national security. Look, the Federal Government plays a very critical role in our R&D process infrastructure, and that basic research plays out in many, many different forms down the line. So I think, you know, if we take a look at the combination of the America--the CHIPS for America Act, the National Artificial Intelligence Act which passed last year, the Energy Act that passed last year, those can be used as a pivot point to start to increase Federal R&D, but as I referenced earlier as well, I think there are a number of other steps that we would like to talk to you about as to how we can increase that Federal research dollar, and see if there's some sort of mechanism to increase it over time, and also to ensure that we are keeping pace with our international competitors. Mr. Beyer. Yeah. Thanks. My time's up, but thank you for the specific recommendations you gave us today. Staff. Mr. Feenstra, I think. Mr. Feenstra. Thank you, Madam Chair, and Ranking Member Lucas. I first of all, I want to thank each of the witnesses for their testimony today. It is crucial for us to hear from each of you on how to best maintain the United States' role as leaders in science and innovation, and how we can help our Nation's research enterprises recover from the effects of the pandemic. I also want to say I really enjoyed the conversation concerning research and development tax credits. The State of Iowa is one of the leaders in research and development tax credits, and myself being chair of Ways and Means in the Iowa Senate over the years, I have seen a tremendous value in what's happening with research and development tax credits, and how we have really driven research in our State, you know, when it comes to agriculture and biofuel. But, with that, I have a couple of other questions. I'd like to center these questions to Dr. Parikh, and then to Dr. Levine, if possible. Representative Webster asked, and discussion was talked about, about losing high tech jobs overseas as students graduate, and we see this at our universities, Iowa, Iowa State. I was a professor at Dordt University, teaching business and economics, and we saw it there also. So the question is, Iowa State, we take STEM careers very seriously. Our Governor heads up a State advisory council to increase interest and achievement in STEM studies and careers. It works through partnerships that engage employers, nonprofits, students, and policyholders. So, as we talk about this, how should we increase STEM career interest after this pandemic? How do we get these kids to stay here, get them engaged? How do we get them involved? I know we've had some discussion about this, but I would like to hear more on your thoughts in this area. Dr. Parikh. Thank you, Mr. Feenstra, for the question. You know, one of the things is--something to come after the pandemic, is--people have gotten excited about this collaboration between government, and industry, and business in bringing therapies and vaccines to the people. Well, one of the challenges that we still have is this silo between academic scientists and industry scientists. There are a lot of industry--there are a lot of academic scientists, and our CVs, our resumes, don't look the same. And we don't know--it's very hard to cross those barriers. And I think everyone would gain if that student who's at Iowa State, and goes through the academic track, but then there's a fluidity where they can move into academic jobs or into industry jobs or into defense jobs, if that were easier, that would be a huge benefit to the country, and to business, and to the students themselves. So I think that's one way that we can do something after this pandemic is over that would make a huge difference for moving the science forward, and for people. Dr. Levine. Let me just underscore, along similar lines, I think we need to look at our higher education system as part of the ecology of producing important work in science. So, for example, better networking of terrific faculty at--whether it's Grinnell, or other institutions that are primarily 4 year institutions, like--mentioned--of Iowa, that those faculty who are really igniting the interest of students in their undergraduate courses, that those faculty can place undergraduates in a summer program, in a lab, in a university, or in a national laboratory, or in an industrial setting, in a social behavioral sciences and a large survey research organization where they can touch and feel what happens on the ground. I would not have myself pursued a science career if I was not invited as an undergraduate to work in a social psychology laboratory. That turned me from pursuing a different professional set of interests to the lab, and we need to be investing in higher education, including community college settings where there are exceptional faculty doing this work, to see this as part of the infrastructure. Not just the kind of synergism that I refer to, and Sudip just did, about the different kinds of silos, but also the siloing of institutions, and thinking of teaching as not as meritorious and knowledge- producing as research. Some of the stereotypic thinking of--as productivity, so that we encourage team science, which we all talk about as extraordinarily important, into disciplinary science shouldn't be viewed as left over after you achieve your credentials as a building block of your field. Team science as a disciplinary science produces extraordinary knowledge. We need to emphasize the--as we think about the science of the future. And I share the view that, actually--one of the most exciting--I lead this life in which I'm so excited by what we're inventing, and so overwhelmed by how to do it faster and better, so on the best days I'm just really excited about what the scientific community has been able to do. Mr. Feenstra. Thank you so much for your comments. And I know my time is up, but I just quickly want to say this, is that I think we have to be innovative also when it comes to this private/public partnership. I know Tom, you mentioned this, on how we can do tax incentives with the colleges, the universities, and the private sector of saying, hey, what can we do to incentivize where these kids can go from the college role to the job role? And we've done this in research and development with a great tax credit. I just think there's ways to nuance this to even make it more successful. Thank you for your time, I yield back. Staff. Mr. Kildee is next. Mr. Kildee. Thank you. Can you hear me OK? Staff. Yes. Mr. Kildee. All right. Well, first of all, thank you to Chairwoman Johnson for holding this really important hearing. I do appreciate the testimony of the witnesses, and hearing ways that our researchers have been affected by the pandemic, and yet have still helped to combat, really in a pretty remarkable way, the spread of coronavirus. It is truly a remarkable achievement that we've seen just in the last year, particularly around--but obviously around vaccination. Obviously our national research infrastructure is critical to all of us in so many ways. We have to ensure that it survives this moment that we're in right now, and that's why, like many, I'm just--in this hearing support the RISE Act to provide the relief necessary to--and to support federally funded research. Not only to provide emergency relief to support our researchers--public health crisis, but we also obviously have to sustain these research investments as we look forward toward economic recovery, and the long-term economic viability of the U.S. Part of rebuilding our economy obviously includes investment in the infrastructure, but also specifically including energy infrastructure and clean energy technology. And I know Congresswoman Stevens, my in-state partner, mentioned this, but, you know, for example, putting more electric vehicles on the road, reducing carbon emissions, supporting investment in American-made manufacturing, this all protects our planet and helps us grow our economy. So I wonder, Dr. Parikh, if you could perhaps address this question. If we don't invest in R&D in the technology of the future, like electric vehicles, other countries will, and I'm curious about what your sense of that challenge really looks like for us. And then, if I have time, I would like to ask Mr. Quaadman also. Dr. Parikh? Dr. Parikh. Thank you, Mr. Kildee. You know, what's remarkable is over the last 75 years we developed this ecosystem, and we invested in it, and we did it pretty much alone, right? There weren't a lot of other nations that were doing this, and so we benefited greatly from it. And what's happened is everybody now understands the blueprint, and you all know this as Members of this Committee, that everybody now understands that blueprint. And we have to innovate beyond where they--where they're copying us. And if we don't, the scale of investment, that's coming, right? China can invest just as much as we can. And so it's not about just the scale. We need the scale, but we also need the thoughtfulness of how do we incentivize industry, how do we incentivize industry and academia to work together, how do we do it in a targeted way, in a coordinated way? We have over 20 agencies that do science research and development across the Federal Government. Now, in the past, they didn't always work together. But if we're going to attack climate change, if we're going to attack the need for better batteries for electric cars, if we're going to attack the need for quantum computing, we have to have a coordinated effort. We need NOAA, and NIH (National Institutes of Health), and CDC to work together on climate change. We need DOE, NSF, and DOD working together on batteries. So that requires more coordination that we've ever had before, so we've got to do both those things. We've got to be able to invest heavily, you know, and that's going to be a lot more than we're doing today. As Mr. Quaadman said, we should be doing way more in terms of GDP in research and development, but the second piece is we've got to coordinate our activities in a way that actually attacks the problems that we're trying to solve. Mr. Kildee. Thank you. I wonder, Mr. Quaadman, if you could comment, but also specifically any thought you have on the necessary incentives for private sector investment? Like, for example, the change in the R&D tax credit that'll go into effect in 2022, what impact that might be having in terms of the way those--that expensing will be amortized. Are we providing the proper incentives? Did the Tax Cuts and JOBS Act actually work against us, in the sense that it changed the way companies can to look at that investment? Mr. Quaadman. Yeah, thank you very much for that question, Mr. Kildee, and I would just say too when the Chamber released its climate principles in mid-January, last month, you know, two things that we had in there is we have to embrace technology and innovation to address climate, but then we also need to ensure that there's U.S. climate science leadership to address the problems as well. So I think the American Energy Act, as an example, provides for funding for a number of different technologies, such as advanced nuclear, carbon capture, a number of other things that can--that could help lead us through that. I would also say too--No. 2, to your point, it is very important that we do change that R&D tax credit. That is going to be very important for how business will allocate funding. But the last point I want to make too, which it has come up in a couple other questions, but I think undergirds a lot of this, Federal research is also important. Some of what we've talked about with the COVID vaccines, there is 2 decades of research that went into mRNA before we even got to the vaccine. If we take a look at GPS (Global Positioning System), that research started in the 1950's. So we also have to understand too, there could be decades of research in the basic research field where the Federal Government plays a unique role that the private sector and the academic researchers can come in later on, when we're talking about applying the development research. But really it's that core that we need to get going as well. Mr. Kildee. Great, I appreciate--my time's expired. I really appreciate the testimony of the witnesses, and, Madam Chair, I appreciate you holding this hearing, and I yield back. Staff. Mr. LaTurner is next. Mr. LaTurner. Chairwoman Johnson, Ranking Member Lucas, thank you for having this hearing so we can discuss the importance of research, and the United States remaining at the forefront of the world of science and technology. One of the key reasons the United States became a world power was the emphasis we placed on innovation. We invested in research and development in the universities like the University of Kansas (KU), which I am so proud to represent, and national laboratories as well. We led by example in scientific and technological advancements. But now others in the world are emphasizing their research programs, and are working hard to overtake us. China is pursuing aggressive plans to become the world leader in technology, supplemented by their own national policies, and billions of dollars in investments. It comes as no surprise that national research efforts were among the many things impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. Laboratory closures, health restrictions, and cancellations of conferences and travel have strained researchers and disrupted our normal operations. The virus has lowered our research output, cost hundreds of millions of dollars in divestment, and nearly halted the academic research and STEM workforce pipelines. If we want to come back from this, and stay ahead of China, we must look to getting our research enterprise back in full working order, and ensure there is a place for our future generations of researchers and innovators. I hope that this Committee can come together to make sure the rest of the world looks to America for future scientific advancement. Mr. Quaadman, partnerships between the Federal Government, academia, and the private sector are commonplace in our national R&D or enterprise. Can you discuss the importance of the public/private partnership, especially as it relates to overcoming the COVID situation that we've been in over the last year? Mr. Quaadman. Yeah. I think it was very important that we had the ability of the Federal Government, academia, and the private sector to come together extremely quickly to ensure that there were either research dollars in place, or that there were deployment dollars put in place, as well as a sharing of knowledge, which we talked about the computing consortium as an example of that. We've--we saw--frankly, we also saw that in the 1960's through large agreement with the moon program as well. So it just goes to show, if we get our act together, and can work in concert together to ensure that we are putting our best foot forward, nobody's going to beat us. The problem we've had over the last several decades is, you know, we're sort of riding along on some successes that we've had in the past, but we did not have a concerted strategy, and I think we are at a point here where we could sort of take a little bit of a deep breath to make sure we get things back up and running, but also look at the long term as to what we need--what policies do we need to put in place to make sure that we are going to continue our leadership. Mr. LaTurner. I appreciate that. Dr. Keane, the University of Kansas is the largest employer in the Second District of Kansas, and one of the largest employers of the State. Researchers at KU, like most citizens in the country, have had great restrictions to return to work. What I'm concerned about is that grants that have been awarded in the past can't be completed, and the potential for new scientific discoveries will stall. Can you speak to the type of impact legislation like the RISE Act would have on the university research community, and how that can affect the larger communities and cities that universities reside in? Dr. Keane. Thank you, Representative LaTurner, for that question. It's a great question. The RISE Act will definitely help the situation. We talked earlier about the 20 to 40 percent loss in output. It's essentially due to, you know, the time out we've had, and then looking ahead, the difficulties in ramping up again. So the RISE Act will support researchers that will allow us to come back fully, and that will support the local economic development within those areas. As you know, universities are very strong engines in the local economy in their various communities, certainly in my area in rural Washington. So I would strongly urge that we--that the Committee pass the RISE Act, provide the resources to enable that research to finish that was interrupted. And I think also, as we've heard, we need to look to the future as well. If I could also just for a moment emphasize as well some of the issues with HBCUs (Historically Black Colleges and Universities) and others on this, they're in a particularly tough spot because they don't have a lot to fall back on in terms of infrastructure and other things, in terms of getting the full range of our talent. They, as well as--faculty, as we've already heard, have been particularly strongly impacted, and deserve attention. Mr. LaTurner. I appreciate that, Dr. Keane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you Ranking Member Lucas. I yield back my time. Staff. Mr. Casten is next. Mr. Casten. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and I feel like I need to apologize. We have such a good bunch of speakers, I would love to ask the same questions of all of you, because I think some of the differences in nuance would be interesting, so if you want to follow up, please do. But I'm going to pick, for totally selfish reasons, as a biochemical engineer and biochemist, I've got to represent, so I'm going to go with you, Dr. Parikh. I want to follow on the discussion you had with Mr. Tonko, and this, you know, that we've seen this falloff in research, and it's been focused on specific sectors, and I, you know, I think a lot have covered that, and I don't want to dwell on that, but what I'd like to understand is--we have--science is an international endeavor. There's lots of collaboration between labs. For a whole lot of reasons that we don't need to get into here, but we can acknowledge, COVID affected different countries very differently, the rate of mask uptake, the rate of social distancing, deployment of testing, and particularly in the Southeast Asia region, including Australia and New Zealand, the reality of COVID was much less grim, as far as what it meant for social distancing than what it was here. Of those sectors of our scientific endeavor that have been most deeply impacted, have any of them been able to work with their collaborators to move that research overseas, and if so, will that research come back to the United States after, or is there a permanent loss that's there? Dr. Parikh. Mr. Casten, that's a terrific question. I don't have hard data on numbers of projects that may have moved, but certainly, at the individual peer to peer level-- look, these conversations are happening all the time. We've got scientists here that talk to their collaborators. Maybe they're former students who are in Europe now, or who are in Australia now. And basic research works in a way where we do share information, we do share reagents, we do share intellectual conversations, because the point is to actually do the basic research so you can get to the intellectual property. And so that is happening. There's no doubt that when experiments can't happen here, as a graduate student, I'd be wanting my idea to flower somewhere, because I have the intellectual ownership of that. Maybe not IP, but intellectual ownership of it, and so that is definitely happening. And right now it's manageable, because we can keep these students in the pipeline with funding like the RISE Act. What happens--what could be bad is if we don't do things like the RISE Act, we don't ensure that that pipeline gets unclogged, if those students follow those projects, those students follow those ideas, or they just leave the sciences. And that's what--that's a true worry for us. Mr. Casten. So let me go from a mildly complicated question to a really complicated one, and put you on the spot with the clock at 2:30 and counting. When we think about the economic downturns, you know, there's--and I know the metrics on economic downturns. It's harder in science, but, you know, we'll see a collapse in the economy, and on a good downturn, ``good'', we sort of restore to the historic growth trajectory. So if you think about, like, the dot com crash, we got--we came down, and we got back--so we saw some above-average growth. In a bad downturn, like the 2008 crash, we fall off and we, you know, maybe we return to the historic rate of growth, but we never get back to that historic trajectory. Dr. Parikh. Yeah. Mr. Casten. The reason I ask about that sort of international--not just the brain drain, but if the research has moved overseas, is there, you know, as you think about the restoration of--where we are, are we--is this going to be a good downturn or a bad downturn, from a scientific perspective? And from a policy perspective, beyond throwing money at the problem, which I'm sure we will, are there policy tools that we should be thinking about right now to make this a good downturn in the scientific? That make sense? Dr. Parikh. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, and---- Mr. Casten. And, again, if any of the rest of you have answers, please send them in writing, but I--time here after Dr. Parikh is done. Dr. Parikh. I appreciate that. No, I think it's an excellent question, and what we do here is going to determine what happens. I mean, we are at this inflection point. We're-- we can't just move some money at it, and move on, and yes, we'll keep that historical trajectory, I hope. But, in reality, others are moving in the environment as well, so we have to do a couple of things. One is the investment. The second is that coordination factor I'm talking about. We haven't done that before. It is so important that we--if we're going to say that climate disruption is important to us, we've got to coordinate our activities. If we're going to say that batteries are important to us, we've got to coordinate those efforts between the academic environment and business. If we don't do that, then we're--our unconsolidated work is going to be incredibly powerful, and yet the sum will not be greater--the whole will not be greater than the sum of the parts. We've got to have that coordination. So I think that's the policy issue. As we get out of the pandemic, and as we--if we save this generation of human capital, then the next thing is we've got to be able to coordinate our activities, otherwise we can't--a plan beats no plan. The Chinese have a plan on these things, and we have some on some areas, because of good legislation from this Committee and others, but we've got to make sure that we're thinking about this in a holistic sense. Mr. Casten. Well, thank you so much. I see I'm out of time, but would love to continue the conversation with you and your staff--and, again, sorry to the rest of you that I didn't get to talk to, but we'd welcome them as well, to the extent you have a point to add. Thank you, I yield back. Staff. Mr. Gimenez next. Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, thank you very much, and I want to thank the Chairwoman and the Ranking Member for putting this together, and everybody that's been on the panel. The question that I have is something that Mr. Parikh said, something about the supply chain. Does talent follow the supply chain? Dr. Parikh. Does talent--thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. I think talent follows the opportunity. You know, in times when the finance industry looks like the place to be as a young person, people want to go to the finance industry. And you are--you're so influenced by your parents. And I just had a conversation with a program in the south side of Chicago, and-- we're trying to get young people interested in the sciences. They only get interested if they know there's a job there, that there's a life there. And so, yes, it follows the opportunity, as much as it follows the supply chain. Mr. Gimenez. So if the supply chain is leading, or left the United States, and we want to get some of this talent back, would it be a good policy to try to bring the supply chain back to the United States? Dr. Parikh. I'm following your question now. Look, absolutely, because the more parts of the supply chain that are here, there are more jobs for that talent. They can work in manufacturing, they can work in the translational sciences, they can work in--on the policy side related to the manufacturing, so absolutely. I think that's a true statement. Mr. Gimenez. How can we incentivize the supply chain to come back to the United States? Dr. Parikh. I'm going to defer to Mr. Quaadman on part of that, because he is the--he's much more of an expert on the industry side. What I will say is that, you know, the investment in research, if you notice these areas around the country, the geographic areas, the clusters where science is happening, a lot of time the translational stuff happens around there as well, and then you can see the manufacturing. But I'll defer to Mr. Quaadman on the--on details. Mr. Gimenez. OK. Mr. Quaadman. Sure, Mr. Gimenez. Thank you for that question. That's an excellent question, so let me answer it in two separate ways. No. 1--came out with--report with China, and one of the things--recommendations that was made in there was also to increase our domestic manufacturing base, and I think the CHIPS for America Act is a very good example of that. And we can send you a copy of that report, and have a further discussion with you on that. Second, we are also looking at President Biden's Executive order from yesterday. We fully agree with the aims of having a resilient supply chain, and a diversified supply chain, and we also look forward to providing our--on that as well. Mr. Gimenez. OK. Shifting gears a little bit, you know, the pandemic has been horrible, but also it's taught us a different way of doing business. And so is there any upside here for research, in that the pandemic has forced us to conduct business in a little bit different way? And maybe it's been positive on some research, and it's been negative on others, so what's been your experience? Dr. Keane. Representative Gimenez, if I could take a crack at that one for a minute? First of all, I think we've all learned a lot about but--about virtual techniques, and some of them are just going to remain, as you might imagine, certain types of meetings that will become virtual forever. They actually are more effective at promoting diverse input. I think we've also learned some other things, not just associated with remote technology and--things like artificial intelligence. The Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence out here in Washington State, their leader put together a body of papers on COVID-19, 200,000, analyzable by some of their machine learning platforms and so on. So, essentially, it's as if you could draw on 200,000 papers to get an answer you're looking for, which is obviously a faster rate of progress than most of us human researchers could do. There have some major changes that have happened, some very positive advances out of this crisis, and so I think there'll be a lot of great advances that'll be incorporated into the research enterprise in the future. Thanks. Mr. Gimenez. Well, last question, since I'm new to this Committee, where do we stand in terms of artificial intelligence research here in the United States versus probably our main competitor, China? Dr. Keane. I'm not an expert in that, but I will just say that the advances--there have been advances in machine learning due to some advances about 4 or 5 years ago, and so the applications of AI right now are exploding. It will fundamentally change how we conduct research, and lots of other areas of our lives. Mr. Quaadman. I would just add too that is the jump ball of the 21st century, as to who's going to win that. And I think we're taking some very good steps to ensure we've got the policies in place so we can help with the development, we can help be a leader there, but by no means are we assured of winning that race. Mr. Gimenez. I know that my time is up, and so thank you very much, but I'll just close by saying that I think you're right, the race to artificial intelligence is the jump ball of the 21st century, and we need to win it as a nation. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. Dr. Levine. If I could just add one dimension on that point quickly? One of our potential competitive edges is that AI needs the kind of modeling and development that takes into account the diversities of reasoning and decisionmaking. And what we have in our democracies, and in our commitment, hopefully our renewed commitment, to equity is to bring those voices into the AI community. There are many very central locations already doing that. It's the kind of thing we need to invest in, and that's where I think our competitive edge can reside. We don't think in one way, and we need to bring that diversity of reasoning into modeling in AI. It's happening now, and we need to invest further in it. Staff. Ms. Ross is next. Ms. Ross. OK, I've unmuted. Can you hear me? Staff [continuing]. Can. Ms. Ross. That's great. Well, thank you, Chairwoman--and-- Member Lucas. It's been a--hearing, and it--it's--much from research dollars going to our universities, and also going to several of the organizations that do research. We're now ranked among the top 10, I believe No. 6 in the country, and I have North Carolina State University in my district. I also have two HBCUs in my district, and I really appreciate the mention of the HBCUs, because they are doing excellent work, and are educating the next generation of entrepreneurs, so I want to thank you for that. My first question is for---- Staff. Ms. Ross, you appear to be experiencing bandwidth issues, and your connection is cutting in and out. You may want to turn the camera off, and that may help with your audio. Ms. Ross. OK. No. OK. OK. I'm sorry about that. I'm going to have to yield back. Staff. OK. We'll go to Mr. Obernolte. Mr. Obernolte. Well, thank you very much, and thanks to our witnesses. I've really enjoyed the hearing. One recurrent theme that has surfaced in the testimony seems to be concern about our investment in research and development compared to China's, and how that might undermine our strategic position. That's a concern that I very much share, and so I had a couple questions regarding that. First, to Dr. Keane, you quoted some very interesting statistics about how we were falling behind China in our investment in research and development, and I'm wondering, are those statistics including both private and public sector investments in research and development? And, you know, kind of as a follow-on, it seems to me that measuring private sector investment in R&D in the United States is actually a little bit problematic because it's not something that's always reported. You can get it from publicly traded companies' disclosure statements sometimes, but quite often that's a trade secret that companies don't share. So how confident are we in those statistics? Dr. Keane. Yeah, thank you for that question, Representative Obernolte, great, great questions. First of all, the source of that data, as I mentioned earlier, I believe is the National Science Board Indicators Report, which is based on the survey data that the National Science Foundation collects from industry, universities, all manner of folks that perform research. So the answer to your first question, then, is that those numbers include all research, federally funded universities, industry, nonprofits, et cetera, and all those folks typically respond to these survey--NSF. With that said, your question about the quality of the data, I don't have an NSF colleague here, but, you know, we could certainly connect you with someone to talk about that, and how they collected--but it is all expenditures from all sectors, and it is based on a--it's currently a systematic survey that's been done for many years by the National Science Foundation. Mr. Obernolte. All right. Thank you. You know, not to say that the data's invalid, something I'm very concerned about, but to be able to solve the problem we need to make sure we get our arms around exactly how big the problem is, and because our economy is much less centrally planned than China's I'm concerned that we don't have a full picture of what our private sector investment in R&D is. And then, for my second question, to Dr. Quaadman, basically on the same topic, but you had said something I found very interesting in your testimony, expressing concern that in the past most research and development was publicly funded here in the United States, and that now that's kind of flip-flopped, and we're 70 percent privately funded, and only 30 percent publicly funded. And I'm wondering if you could defend a little bit, you know, why you're concerned about that? Because it seems to me that, you know, maybe there's a difference in the type of research going on. Maybe public funding is more toward basic research, and private funding is more toward applied research. But, you know, why is that something we should be concerned about? Mr. Quaadman. Well, because--think of it this way, all right? Because the--a lot of the business funding, it's either in development research or it's in applied research, right, where you're trying to develop products off of other research that's--theoretical--or from the basic research arm. So if you're not doing some of that basic research, you're not going to get some of those other impacts. So if you think about it this way, in the example I used earlier, with GPS, right, that started with the Federal Government in the 1950's. Think of all the different ways we're using GPS now. By the way, with the implementation of 4G, with data localization and sharing, et cetera, that's how you got ridesharing, right? And we would sort of say now, like, going into an Uber and a Lyft, that's sort of second nature. So now if you look at it this way as well, as we start to implement 5G, what are going to be the products that come after that? The point is, if we're not doing that basic research, you're not going to have those positive benefits--societal benefits that occur due to some of the development research that happens, and that's when you start to look at what--as we are, not spending as much on the basic research. We're not going to have that bang for the buck later in the future. Mr. Obernolte. Sure. I agree with you, however, I think it's kind of a nuanced point. Basic research is sometimes the most easily duplicated. Applied research is very difficult to duplicate because you're, you know, you're applying it to a specific application. So---- Mr. Quaadman. Um-hum. Mr. Obernolte [continuing]. I mean, I actually think that this is something that we as a nation should be talking more about, because I think it's an incredibly important topic to talk about, what kinds of research we're funding, who is funding it, if it's public sector or private sector, and how that stacks up against other countries, particularly China. But thank you. I see my time's expired. Thank you very much to our panelists. A really interesting discussion, I look forward to continuing it in the future. I yield back. Staff. Ms. Bonamici is---- Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chairwoman Johnson and Ranking Member Lucas, and thank you so much to our witnesses for joining us today. I--I've now relocated to a computer where I'm not going to be dropped, I hope. So I really appreciate the Committee's continued focus on the effects of the pandemic on our Nation's research enterprise following our hearing last fall on the needs of universities and I'm very glad that we're securing funding for the National Science Foundation and NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technology in the American Rescue Plan, but we need to pass the RISE Act to truly recognize the expenses and the challenges that have been accrued in ramping up, or down, spending, and then eventually restarting Federal research. So today I want to focus on the long-term consequences of the pandemic for the research community, specifically for our workforce, in solving the next moon shot challenge. But I also wanted to note that, you know, this Committee has had countless hearings over the years about how to grow and diversify the workforce, and STEAM (science, technology, engineering, arts, and mathematics). I say STEAM intentionally. Mr. Quaadman mentioned innovation, which is critical, and there was a suggestion along the way that--interested in the arts should be redirected to STEM. I submit that the better solution is integrating the arts into science, technology, engineering, and math. Brain research shows that arts education helps students be more creative and innovative, and Europe and Asia are not cutting the arts. So I'm--I do want to focus on the economic consequence of the COVID-19 pandemic, and how they have exacerbated so many of the inequities and the barriers facing women in communities of color. Because of entrenched gender roles, women are continuing to take up the majority of childcare and caregiving responsibilities. That's directly affected their research, as Dr. Keane mentioned. One professor at the University of Oregon, Dr. Machalicek recently noted that she regretfully now deletes every request for a proposal because she simply doesn't have time [inaudible] caregiving responsibilities. She hosts an online writing group for--they have to be at night, after bedtime for--children. Now, Dr. Levine, you noted several data points in your testimony that suggest that Dr. Machalicek is not alone in her experience. What steps can universities and the Federal Government take to support women in research fields to make sure that they aren't left behind as we get through the pandemic and build back? Dr. Levine. What an excellent question, and that citation not only resonates with what we heard so powerfully in our focus group, but just looking at the top line, as we're bringing the survey into an analytic format, we're just seeing it pop off the page. We need to do something that provides much more comprehensive wrap-around services. That's one of the reasons why I mentioned early on that supplemental funding that NSF has, that should be a kind of thinking that leads to wrap- around support, potential childcare services, additional, potentially, RA (Resident Assistant) support, and other kinds of time off, salary release time, as a good way of catching up and that, and those who have elder care responsibilities. And one of the reasons why I emphasize--this is particularly an issue for women of color is that one of the things we picked up in the focus group very clearly is how much additional family care, based on many first generation career scientists, then need to also not only invest in their own child care, but wrap-around care to their family members, so we need to---- Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. And, Dr. Levine, I don't mean to cut you off, but I really want to get another question in to Dr. Parikh. And even in the midst of an unprecedented pandemic, the climate crisis continues. We need climate science to help mitigate and adapt. Oregon State University (OSU), in my home State, is home to a world class ice core analysis laboratory, and they rely on ice core samples from the national archive at the NSF ice core facility in Denver, so COVID restrictions on Federal staffing and travel have significantly slowed their access to samples, in particular for a new project studying what is believed to be the oldest pristine ice samples ever discovered. So OSU's research vessels have been restricted as well, limiting supplies--or, excuse me, samples, for algal blooms--temperatures of the ocean. These gaps are irreplaceable, so, Dr. Parikh, I appreciate your focus on our Nation's innovative leadership, but how will these disruptions affect our ability to solve challenging problems like the climate crisis? Dr. Parikh. It's an excellent point, Ms. Bonamici. It shows that, yeah, this goes beyond the biomedical research sciences. It goes beyond our challenges related to the here and now. It goes to future crises, and there's no getting back the time that that ice core couldn't move from Denver to Oregon. We can't get that back. What we can do is ensure that, going forward, we have the human capital that was going to do is still there, and the next generation's also coming, and that we also have thought about the resiliency of that scientific enterprise. You know, we can--sometimes you think about these things, there are freezers that hold unique biological samples in this country. There are freezers that hold unique core samples from the Arctic. We need to make sure we have resilience in that--in those invaluable assets that only our Nation has because we invested the time, and the energy, and the resources to go get it. So let's make sure we have that resiliency in place as well. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. I see my time has expired. I yield back. Thank you, Madam Chair. Staff. Mr. Babin is up next. Mr. Babin. Yes. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and Ranking Member Lucas. I want to thank all of you witnesses as well today. This conversation we're having is critically important in many ways, but probably one of the most important are the implications that this has on our national security during this time of the pandemic. The U.S. Justice Department has accused China of sponsoring hackers who are targeting labs that were using state-of-the-art technology to develop our COVID vaccines. The Director of the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) has said that acts of espionage and theft by China's government pose the ``greatest long-term threat'' to the future of the United States. My first question goes to Dr. Parikh and Dr. Keane. There have been multiple examples of Chinese hackers attempting to steal COVID vaccine data from different universities around the country. In your opinion, how susceptible are our universities to Chinese hackers, and what do each of you see as being a solution to better protecting our technology and our research? Dr. Parikh, if you would answer first, and then Dr. Keane. Thank you. Dr. Parikh. Thank you, Mr. Babin. This is a critically important question. You know, I can attest that every one of our institutions, our national laboratory, even the AAAS, we are constantly under attack in cyberspace, and it's from multiple nations around the world. The challenge for us is to make sure that we are being--we are protecting our intellectual property, we're protecting the things that need to be protected for defense, as laid out by the National Security Directive-- Decision Directive issued by President Reagan during the cold war, Directive Number 189. We need to make sure that we are protecting those assets, while balancing the need for collaboration. And, you know, basic research has collaboration that is required as well. So in terms of policy, are--you're asking if the universities are better today than they were yesterday, they are. They are. Will they be better tomorrow? I think so. And part of that is that we are learning. We are constantly learning. This is a fluid situation. It has gotten worse over time, and the universities have been, in my opinion, and now I turn to Dr. Keane to answer directly, but, in my opinion, from the outside, they have been very responsive to this--to these attacks. Mr. Babin. All right. Thank you so much. Dr. Keane? Dr. Keane. Yeah, thank you very much for that question, Representative Babin. So let me first of all state that universities are actually dedicated to implementing measures to, you know, conduct our research in a secure manner. Just also a little bit of background, in terms of life under attacks, you know, as Dr. Parikh just talked about, we're in a similar situation. Over 90 percent of the e-mails that we get at Washington State University are attacks or spam, so our firewalls are constantly defending us against all manner of things. In terms of what we're doing about it, you know, a variety of things. First of all, we have, you know, significantly increased faculty awareness on this. We talk to our faculty all the time. We are improving our systems for disclosure of conflict of interest and conflict of commitment. Conflict of Commitment, the simple way to think of that is we want to make sure that a faculty member doesn't spend 100 percent time on one project, and then go out and get a grant to do exactly the same work with somebody else, right? And so we have systems in place that we--or monitor that, and we've gone to electronic, and other sort of ways to help us do that, as have many universities. I also just want to close on this--my comment on this topic by pointing out that the recent legislation in the National Defense Authorization Act, and also ongoing efforts to try and harmonize research security related--across agencies. Right now there is significant administrative overhead because we have different requests--for example, interactions with China or whatever--country--in different formats from different agencies. So we spend a lot of time trying to sort out the different forms, which isn't, you know, value added. So anything that could be done by the Congress or the Committee to try and take a coherent multi-agency approach to research security would be welcome. Thank you. Mr. Babin. Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Keane. Real quickly, Mr. Quaadman, in your capacity with the U.S. Chamber, how is the theft of basic research by China going to hurt our economy and our competitiveness? If you could just give a few seconds to that? Mr. Quaadman. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's harmful to both. One of the things that the Chamber has done, through our Global Innovation Policy Center, in a few weeks we'll be releasing our 10th IP Index, which ranks each--ranks the top 53 economies as to their treatment of intellectual property. China and India historically have not ranked high there. They've actually ranked fairly low, for obvious reasons. What that has also done, though, that's also sparked a U.S./China dialog where we work with these issues with both business and government leaders, as well as with India. So part of our belief is that it's--it is important to shine a light on these problems because it creates incentives to try and address some of them from the other side as well. Mr. Babin. Absolutely. Thank you so much. I'll yield back, Madam Chair. Staff. Ms. Moore is next. Ms. Moore. Thank you so very, very much, Madam Chair, Mr. Ranking Member, all of our witnesses, Dr. Parikh, Dr. Keane, Dr. Levine, Mr. Quaadman. I have learned so much from this hearing today, and I have more questions than I do time, so let me try to get through this. When we look at--I want to make a declarative statement, and then sort of get a response from you. When we look at the numbers of women who engage in research, I guess of any type, whether it's biomedical, or defense, or any other kinds, like, 30 percent globally, and you've all attested to the fact that women have various family responsibilities that Dr. Keane said keeps them out of academia for numbers of years longer, they don't go into research because of the framework of being family, and so on. I just want to know, is there anything about the RISE Act, or other sorts of research, that specifically focuses on maintaining these women, and now that we've gone through this pandemic and seen some slippage, is there any very specific plans with the universities, or with research firms, or Chamber of Commerce, is there any specific research that focuses on maintaining women? And I don't say this out of some sort of just abstract notion of we need affirmative action. I mean, it matters, and it matters a lot, whether women and minorities are engaged in these kind of programs. I'll just give you an example. I took a--kind of a blood pressure medication, and my mouth swelled up, and I was looking all ugly, and I called one of my friends, who's a Black female cardiologist, and she said, you--as a Black person, you should've never been taking that medicine in the first place. And--so the consequences of not having women in the field--and I want you to talk about that. And then there's been a lot of talk about national security issues, and I notice that women in the Soviet realm, and perhaps even in China, much higher participation of women in research. Want to know if that has any implications for national security, or for our keeping pace. And so I guess I would ask that of Dr. Parikh, Dr. Keane, Dr. Levine. Dr. Parikh. Ms. Moore, thank you for the question. My goodness, the value of having diverse voices at the table, women, underrepresented minorities, is not just because of the moral imperative. The moral imperative is obvious. The real reason is because it actually helps our economic competitiveness, and it creates solutions, so the example you gave is a perfect one. When we talk about solutions to this, they are--we've got to aim it at every spot in that pipeline. So, for the kids, K-12, we've got to make sure they're not getting the signals--the wrong signals, to get out of the sciences. We've got to make sure they're getting interventions to help them if there are challenges that are keeping them out of the sciences that are not related to study. Got to make sure we're intervening there. And then, at the graduate school level, we have graduate students that are in their 20's, and we have post-docs in their 30's. They need to not just be treated as apprentices. They need to have some benefits that are employee-like because they are of the age to have children. They are of the age to be married. We need to make sure that they have those kinds of benefits. So I think those are a couple I've given out. I'll give to--time to the others as well. Dr. Keane. Yeah, if I could comment, Representative Moore? Great question. So the answer to your question is, yes, there is research going on to try and actually come up with real ways to improve the situation. But one of the things we need to do, obviously, as a first step is to think about, you know, why are we in the situation we're in? And, to that end, just as an example, there was a very recent, just--think this last month, a study that came out by the National Bureau of Economic Research that surveyed 20,000 Ph.D. woman respondents about their lives, and that turned up some interesting facts, you know, such as on average women have lost double the time to research that men have in the pandemic. And also we can see, by looking at large scale data and publications, that women are definitely publishing less than men. And I know--but that is also just a whole number of potential ways to improve the situation, universities extending tenure clocks, waiving certain types of service for women, providing care, and other, you know, the--relieving other forms of faculty service so women can focus on research, OK? So there's a whole bunch of ideas in the pipeline to address this question. Dr. Levine. Well, I'll just add a couple of words to that, because those are, you know, the important points, I think, to drive home to an exceptional question. I think that we also need to recognize that--hierarchy and positionality, often of women in the workforce. We have, you know, we are very aware that in leadership roles women can be silenced in subtle and not so subtle ways. So they can be central to a team, but not yet rewarded in the same way, so that--we have to understand the nature of the work, because women as scientists are often more inclined toward collaborative models so that--if the pecking order is sole author, versus multiple author. So this is a really important broader issue that we need to take-- consideration. While we support, for example, expanding and extending the tenure clock during this time, and accounting for different kinds of activities, we also need to be sure that the status hierarchy doesn't backslide and say, 3 years from now, so what happened? You know? So we have to be very attentive to the--to essentially subtle indicators that may not seem to leave women behind, but after all they have an adverse--and for women as well--of color as well. A great opportunity and challenge for all of us together, and in collaboration with this Committee, and its sensitivities, and higher education and research institutions. Ms. Moore. OK. Thank you. I yield back. Thanks for indulging, Madam Chair. Staff. Mr. Gonzalez is next. Mr. Gonzalez. Did I hear Mr. Gonzalez? I'm sorry, I thought I heard it, but I don't want to jump the gun. Staff. Yes, you're next. Mr. Gonzalez. OK, great. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Johnson and Ranking Member Lucas, for holding this hearing today, and to our distinguished witnesses for your testimony. As those who served on this Committee with me last Congress know, I personally believe that appropriately funding and supporting our research enterprise is among the most important things we can do for our economy long term. You know, we tend to solve problems that are sort of staring us right in the face, but the truth is the investments that we make in our research enterprise are ultimately going to create jobs 5, 10, 20, 30 years from now. And so I look forward to partnering with my colleagues in making sure that we're continuing to increase funding where appropriate, focus that funding so that we can invent the transformative technologies of the future that will help us sustain our economy, and continue to lead across the world. Mr. Quaadman, as you know, China and other economies are investing aggressively, particularly in the industries of the future, like 5G, AI, quantum. Can you describe what steps the U.S. needs to take to remain a leader in the industries of the future, and what concerns do you have if we fail to do that, and cede that ground to a China, or another country? Mr. Quaadman. Thank you very much, Mr. Gonzalez, and, first off, let me also thank you for your co-leadership of the Artificial Intelligence Caucus as well, and your leadership on these important issues. Look, I would say there are a number of different things here. No. 1, we're clearly in a race. I think I read recently Art Schmidt's testimony before Congress recently, where he said that the United States may only be 1 to 2 years ahead of China in terms of artificial intelligence research. I think some of the steps taken last year, both with the passage of the National Artificial Intelligence Initiative Act, where we created a framework, both in terms of public and private partnership, to help incentivize that research, and provide some funding, is important. I think the OMB guidance released at the end of last year also helps with that, because we need the funding on the one side. We also need to have the collaborative atmosphere that allows for that development to take place. Lastly, though, whoever wins that race to be the leader in artificial intelligence is going to set the standard, so NIST has a very, very critical role, if we were to be in that position, of developing what those standards are around the artificial intelligence, how they can--how it can be used, how it could get deployed. And that's very important because we bring in all the different stakeholders in a very collaborative effort to do that, and there are a lot of thorny ethnic--ethic issues associated with that which impact personal liberty, freedom, et cetera that we have very highly developed attitudes and values around that others may not. So we--that's one of the reasons why it is very important for the United States to be in that leadership role. Mr. Gonzalez. Absolutely. And one thing that I've seen proposed, that I think is a good idea, and I hope we do it, is to create some sort of G7, plus Australia and New Zealand maybe, standard-setting organization or body that could help inform how these technologies are developed, and what the values are that underpin them. Just as a concept, what are your thoughts on that concept? Feel free to disagree with me. I will not take offense. Mr. Quaadman. No, I would say two things. One is I think that's an interesting idea, because if you take a look at it within the scope of the G7, and Australia, and New Zealand, there are a lot of those shared values that we have that can be helpful in terms of doing that. The other thing, I think we would just need to really think this through as well, is that, you know, the EU's also a competitor, right? So I think there has to be a decision if we're going to collaborate on that. And if it's going to be competition, that's fine, right? I mean, the United States does very well when it competes, but we have to realize we are competing, and that if we need to win this race, it's no different than the race to the moon, or to some other technologies that we made sure we were leading in in the 1960's, 1970's, or 1980's. Mr. Gonzalez. Absolutely. And then with my final question--well, we won't be able to get into this in 30 seconds. Maybe I'll submit it for the record. But one thing I am concerned about is our human capital development here in the U.S., and the feeling that, you know, some other countries are outpacing us in the development of our human capital, and I want to make sure that we're always in the lead there, and so I look forward to partnering with all the institutions here, and the Members of Congress on making sure that the U.S. is always as competitive as humanly possible. To your point, if we can compete on a level playing field, we will win. And with that, I yield back. Staff. Mr. Sherman is next. Mr. Sherman's recognized. Mr. Sherman. Why thank you. Madam Chair, thank you for bringing us together. The importance of science was illustrated to the entire country over the last year, as we deal with this COVID crisis. The response of the science community hasn't been perfect, but given the sudden and unexpected nature of this, has been very good. We haven't always followed the science, but we will straighten that out as well. And the vaccines that are coming to us are as a result of the scientific knowledge that has been put together over the last decades. That's why it's important that we move forward with the RISE Act, to keep research going, and to preserve our research capacity for the future. And I thank you for introducing that legislation. We have--others have talked about artificial intelligence, and I just want to point out how important it is that it's kept under human control, and that we engineer into the basic elements of artificial intelligence. You can't just add it in at the end, get it into the hardware, into the systems, in avoidance of self-awareness, in avoidance of ambition, or a desire to persevere. When we talk about promoting science, naturally we're the Science Committee, and we focus, usually, on what's government doing, the space program, our grants to academic research. But we've got a limited amount of money, and I'm sure what money we have for science we will work hard to make sure it's spent in the best way. But there's a much larger amount of money, and that--and the best practical research is often done by our private sector with their own money. And we tend to focus on the startups that have no revenues, and they will, of course, do research. That's their whole reason for existence. They only, you know, money comes as invested by the investors. The only thing they're going to do with it is spend it on their startup research. But the vast majority of private research is being done by companies that have revenues that are expected to earn a profit. And so if you want to influence how much of that research is done, you have to look at our accounting system, at--because Boards of Directors get up in the morning, and they say, how much can we show as earnings per share? We had an accounting system up until 30 years ago in which we treated research appropriately, as we had for the past 200 years. We made a mistake, and this the first time in this Committee that I'll say that perhaps the greatest threat to research is based in Norwalk, Connecticut. That is the location of the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB), a governmental agency that often argues that it's not a governmental agency. Mr. Quaadman, we have, over the last 30 years, a system where if you invest money in a building, that's not an expense. It doesn't hurt your earnings per share, it's investment. But if you invest money in a research project, that's an immediate expense. It hurts your earnings per share, and makes you look worse than those of your competitors who aren't spending money on research. Can you give a feel for how much this impacts the amount of money spent on research by corporate America, focusing not on those few startups, but on the big companies that are expected to show a profit? Mr. Quaadman. Yeah, thank you very much, Mr. Sherman, and thank you for your leadership, both for investors and for capital formation as well, and your doggedness on this issue, because I know you've been after this one for decades. Let me start here in terms of--we have to separate tax policy out from accounting policy, because they're two different things. Mr. Sherman. I'm just focused--I just---- Mr. Quaadman. Yes. Mr. Sherman [continuing]. Interrupt you, we invest billions of dollars over in the Ways and Means Committee promoting research---- Mr. Quaadman. Yeah. Mr. Sherman [continuing]. But what I'm talking about is the accountants based in Norwalk, Connecticut pushing us in the other direction. Go ahead. Mr. Quaadman. Agreed. Our CEO, Tom Donahue, in 2005 gave a speech at Nasdaq where he raised concerns about companies trying to hit the quarterly earnings guidance, right, within a penny or two, right, and that there are polls that actually show that businesses would make decisions that run counter to, let's say, their long-term capital expenditures. In terms of the first principle for the Chamber in terms of accounting, we always believe that it's important to start from the place of-- that, you know, financial reporting needs to reflect economic activity, and not to drive it. Additionally, we've also called for, for years, about the need for a cost benefit analysis in the determination of accounting standards, that we actually have data to understand this along the lines of the problem that you're raising. So I believe that Russ Golden, in his last days as FASB Chair, testified before you at your Subcommittee about looking at intangibles, which this gets into, and I think there needs to be--we need to have somewhat of a data-driven discussion around that to determine what the extent of the problem is that you're raising, and what we have--what we would have to do to sort of--what we'd have to do to address it. Mr. Sherman. My own work makes me think that we're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars in research that would otherwise have been conducted over the last 25 years had they not made this bad accounting decision. I yield back. Staff. Mr. Meijer is next. Mr. Meijer. Thank you, Madam Chair, and Ranking Member, and to our witnesses here today. I really appreciate the time for you to share your thoughts and experiences. Obviously COVID has created disruptions across our Nation, but ensuring that we bounce back as rapidly as possible is key not just in our academic settings, not just in our economic settings, but also in our research and development settings. I've been speaking over the past several months with members of the Michigan research community, both those at the Panhandle Institute in my district in Grand Rapids, at Michigan State University, at the University of Michigan, at Wayne State University, and other institutes of higher education throughout the State of Michigan, to see what we can do to ensure that a lot of the critical research that they've been conducting, you know, as they had to scale back staffing hours in the labs, as they had to deal with, you know, perishable equipment and supplies, on how we can make sure we bounce back as quickly as possible. And I just want to address this to the witnesses in general, and please feel free, any of you, to respond. I guess how are researchers best adapting to the new environment that's been created by this pandemic? Dr. Keane. I'll--if I could--I'll take a quick cut at this---- Mr. Meijer. Yes, sir. Dr. Keane [continuing]. First. So thank you--thanks, Representative Meijer, for that question. It's a very important one. You know, the short answer is in many ways. I think people are learning how to make effective use of virtual tools for a whole bunch of reasons, in a whole variety of ways. I think we're also learning how to conduct research in our laboratories with different staff. You know, we can come back at some of these laboratories now at lower staffing levels. We've gotten much better figuring how to use equipment, and actually conduct work on the situation. There's some things that are harder than others to deal with, such as human subject research, which, you know, has really come back in things like biomedical research in particular, haven't quite come back because of the close nature of interaction. You know, but overall the enterprise--we estimate at WCU, and my colleague, DPR, is elsewhere, we think we're sort of at 60 to 70 percent of pre-pandemic at the moment, but the remaining things are hard to crack. But we--as I mentioned earlier, we still have to worry about finishing off all the work that was delayed. Before we--it was very helpful to have flexibilities and no-cost extensions, but to finish the work has a cost. So, anyway, that's the quick answer. Thank you. Mr. Meijer. I know, and I appreciate that, Dr. Keane. I guess, just building on that, you know, we've already, you know, kind of touched upon, kind of in length, some of the funding concerns, but in terms of other concerns, are there policy modernizations that you feel are needed to make sure I guess specifically at the Federal level to make sure that U.S. researchers remain competitive and grow? Are there any gaps that have really been created that they're concerned or that we may be able to address through a policy angle? Dr. Keane. I'll mention just one I did a few moments ago, because it's a topic of a lot of discussion right now, and that is the monitoring of international, right, and disclosures. We used to have very different and conflicting guidance from agencies, which is just--it takes us a lot of time to respondent to. I would--I will also say that a lot of our agencies have done a fantastic job responding and simplifying. Rapid, you know, proposal, review, and award processes have been immensely helpful, and should be encouraged by the Committee, I would suggest, from a policy level, just as one of a number of examples of agency reforms that have been put in place and been very productive. Mr. Meijer. Thank you, Dr. Keane. And, Madam Chair, I yield back. Staff. Madam Chair, we have one other Member whose camera is on, but I don't see them. Ms. Wild, are you present? I don't see her. She would be our last Member, so I think we may be done. Chairwoman Johnson. Well, thank you very much. Let me thank all of you who participated, and most especially our really great witnesses. This has been a very worthwhile hearing, and I know that we will probably have a follow-up sometime not too far in the future. Before we bring the hearing to a close, I want to again thank our witnesses, and let you know how resourceful you have been. And the record will remain open for 2 weeks for additional statements from Members, and for any additional questions the Committee might have for the witnesses. Our witnesses are now excused, and the hearing is adjourned. Mr. Quaadman. Thank you, Chairwoman. Dr. Levine. Thank you. Dr. Parikh. Thank you---- [Whereupon, at 1:08 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] Appendix I ---------- Answers to Post-Hearing Questions [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Appendix II ---------- Additional Material for the Record [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]