mu/115860585.txt

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--- 115860585
This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFh
Old >>115748160 →
--- 115860807
Let's settle it once and for all:

Who is the best conductor for Mahler? If you could have only one for his entire corpus.
--- 115861005
>>115860807
mahler himself, dumbass
--- 115862040
>>115861005
Yeah let me just whip out the recordings of Mahler.
--- 115862141
>>115860807
Walter.
--- 115862220
>>115862040
sure. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHP46f_ClCc [Embed]
--- 115862253
>>115862220
Nothing like a piano reduction of a symphony, aye?
--- 115862264
>>115862253
should have said more than just "recordings of mahler" and "best conductor" if you wanted someone who had recordings of their conducting, condescending faggot.
--- 115862295
>>115862264
Yeah it's not like I didn't already specify conducting. How about I condescend to your fucking fat mother's vagina?
--- 115862297
>>115862295
specified it the first time, not the second. cry about it.
--- 115862330
>>115860807
If I could keep only one set, it would probably be Gielen's.
--- 115862345
>>115862330
incredible stupidity
--- 115862529
>>115862297
What the fuck? You got caught being retarded and you’re trying to weasel out of it. How do you know that Mahler was the best conductor of Mahler even? I mean we can assume, but it’s not like you’ve seen him doing it. Anon called you out for bullshit and now you’re trying to get out of it by posting a recording of… not conducting? Fucking retard lol
--- 115862531
Granados

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dEIIihn-Ds [Embed]
--- 115862610
>>115862529
>How do you know that Mahler was the best conductor of Mahler even?
a very reasonable assumption based on his own interpretation of his music. it takes little imagination to extrapolate how the most important opera conductor of vienna at the turn of the century might have sounded just based off his own sloppy piano playing. such an idiot.
--- 115862924
Rachmaninoff's vespers is the greatest sacred music work ever written
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfDreatXYeU [Embed]
--- 115863630
>>115862220
>>115862264
>>115862264
>>115861005
least retarded /mu/ user
>>115860807
Walter
--- 115863641
>>115863630
most retarded idiot
--- 115863875
Bach

https://youtu.be/GeLr4at9kq8?t=573 [Embed]
--- 115865275
speaking of Walter why did no one ever rec me his 1956 recording of Mozart's requiem, it's incredible
--- 115867192
Handel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMt1hkkiSv8 [Embed]
--- 115867866
How does this make you feel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UD9naHajk8 [Embed]
--- 115868667
mozart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h71c4u_95P8 [Embed]
--- 115869287
>>115868667
God the fortepiano sounds so fucking ugly
--- 115869371
>>115867866
>sad tim pool
--- 115869381
>>115867192
/classical/ frequently gets filtered by Handel
--- 115870853
"[Handel] is the only person I would wish to see before I die, and the only person I would wish to be, were I not Bach." - J. S. Bach

And when Mozart heard this:

"Truly, I would say the same myself if I were permitted to put in a word"

"Handel understands effect better than any of us -- when he chooses, he strikes like a thunderbolt... though he often saunters, in the manner of his time, this is always something there." - Mozart

Upon hearing the 'Hallelujah Chorus' from Messiah, Joseph Haydn is said to have "wept like a child" and exclaimed: "He is the master of us all."

"Handel is the greatest composer that ever lived... I would uncover my head and kneel down on his tomb." - Beethoven

Beethoven, when asked to name the greatest composer ever, he is said to have responded: "Handel, to him I bow the knee."

In 1819, Beethoven told Archduke Rudolph: "not to forget Handel's works, as they always offer the best nourishment for your ripe musical mind, and will at the same time lead to admiration for this great man."

"Händel is the greatest and ablest of all composers; from him I can still learn." - Beethoven on his deathbed
--- 115872519
>>115868667
>Gardiner
Talentless hack.
--- 115873223
>>115870853
>The prosecutors have built an astonishing record. Several of Handel's works consist largely - in extreme cases, almost entirely - of systematic "borrowings", as they are euphemistically called. Israel in Egypt is among them. Of its twenty-eight choruses, eleven were based on pieces by other composers, some of them practically gobbled up whole. Three of the plagues choruses were based on a single cantata by Alessandro Stradella, a Roman composer whose music Handel encountered during his prentice years.

>More recently it has been discovered that no fewer than seven major works composed between 1733 and 1738 draw extensively on the scores of three old operas by Alessandro Scarlatti that Handel had borrowed from Jennens.

>Perhaps Handel's most brazen appropriation involved the "Grand Concertos" (concerti grossi), op. 6. They were composed in september and october of 1739 and rely heavily for thematic ideas on harpsichord compositions by Domenico Scarlatti, which had been published in London the year before.

>One of his critics was Johann Mattheson who openly and angrily accused Handel of copping a melody from one of his operas. Another was Jennens, who wrote to a friend that he had just received a shipment of music from Italy, and that "Handel has borrow'd a dozen of the pieces & I dare say I shall catch him stealing from them; as I have formerly, both from Scarlatti & Vinci".

>Sure enough, Handel rewrote the passages he had borrowed for his own recent operas so as to obscure his indebtedness to Vinci's. If the old defense - that borrowing carried no stigma - were correct, there would have been no reason for Handel to cover his tracks. And that may also explain why, of all the borrowings securely imputed to him, Handel altered the ones he made from Domenico Scarlatti the most. It may well have been because, of all the music he borrowed, Scarlatti's keyboard pieces were most likely to be recognized by the members of his own public
--- 115874398
Piazzolla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNHMUWASxE [Embed]
--- 115876488
bump
--- 115876522
Mikrokosmos arrived. The stuff at the very start is simpler than the etudes I've been messing with yesterday, but I'll play through everything at least once or twice in tempo.
--- 115878766
>>115863875
happy christmas to you too
--- 115880209
>>115872519
I like most of his vocal recordings.
--- 115880764
>>115860807
Abbado
--- 115880834
>>115880764
repugnant refuse
--- 115881186
>>115860807
Chailly. Haitink 2nd.
--- 115881582
If I like a song and find out it's part of a 40 minute sonata, am I fucked or are there shorter versions for parts?

I might just cut/fade it.
--- 115881608
>>115881582
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
--- 115881694
>>115881608
>typing like he's on a phone
Very classical of you.
--- 115881703
>>115881694
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
--- 115883387
Schumann

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYlI5bQycHQ [Embed]
--- 115883968
I am somewhat new to classical, and when I go to concerts I notice my attention is slipping frequently. My thoughts just wander off and I don't actively follow the music.
Is this normal?
Also I noticed that I seem to focus on the music better when I close my eyes, so I stop trying to follow the orchestra visually and just let myself be "surprised" by music.
Is this autism?
--- 115884052
>>115883968
not a trve classical nerd like most here, but similar experiences for both
--- 115884944
>>115869381
Normalfag but I usually listen to Messiah multiple times every year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QV_I-xseA [Embed]

>>115872519
He did my favorite Figaro recording by far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxm0lkoSMU4 [Embed]

And speaking of Bryn Terfel, I really like (((Mendelssohn's Elijah)))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55iQWao-0FQ&list=PLURlcnatieVLjXQGBK26MNYrp23iI4cxB [Embed]
--- 115885242
>>115860807

Chailly has the best Mahler cycle, also with fantastic sound quality from the peak of the recording industry in the late 90s before it got destroyed by Napster and streaming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Ouwdy_F7M [Embed]
--- 115885247
>>115883968
1. The performances could be mediocre. The only reason I don't fall asleep when I go to a bar with a shitty band playing is that the music is cranked up so loud. Sometimes I'll vastly prefer different performances by two GOOD musicians, much less a mediocre one.
2. You don't really understand the music. Personally, either I'm not smart enough of my ear never really got good enough to enjoy most classical music on first listen. I usually have to listen to music several times and pay attention to the structure to before I start to get it. Sometimes even have to watch an analysis of it, especially with later romantic and 20th century shit.


Haydn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eF0Q87zEWc [Embed]
--- 115885358
>>115867192
>handel sonata with piano playing the bass
--- 115885611
Sometimes I find Czerny piano etudes strangely satisfying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMRfApcMZcQ [Embed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUsIeeVBq48 [Embed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKJWfUTmZeQ [Embed]
--- 115885708
>>115885611
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OAK7uIvAHA [Embed]
I think you'll like this, anon.
--- 115885802
>>115885611
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUsIeeVBq48 [Embed]
has someone ever recorded something like this played with live real blast beat drums?
just piano and drums, that would be wonderful
--- 115885856
something like the Motorhead Overkill beat would fit beautifully
--- 115885977
>>115885708
kek
not that autistic
--- 115886025
>>115885802
YES i could tell it was an april's fool before i checked what do i win
--- 115886240
I just discovered the Chicago Brass Section, what are some good pieces to get totally blasted by that?

https://youtu.be/CCQxOIE-g0I?t=1400 [Embed]
--- 115886301
>>115886240
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W-o5Y_GunU [Embed]
Fountains of Rome, midday fountain is usually good but CSO is kinda lacking in their recording idk.. just don't feel enough tuba.
--- 115887306
Post bach arias that you like. Specific recordings would be nice.

https://youtu.be/3wl2vdgIb-o?t=869 [Embed]

Richter is king
--- 115887585
i want marin marais to tie a fret around me and play my frenulum like it's a figured bass line
--- 115888104
Wagner

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I8KRAWB7yck [Embed]
--- 115890316
bump ad modum tubae https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEcbGXy5kxw [Embed]
--- 115890918
>Martha Argerich is an Argentine classical concert pianist. Born and raised in Buenos Aires to Jewish-Spanish parents
>Her friend pianist Daniel Barenboim stated that when he contacted the Argentinian president Mauricio Macri in 2016, asking him to accept Syrian refugees into the country, it was also on behalf of Argerich.[43]

It's always a fucking jew
--- 115890940
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oGUK9RzRvHE
--- 115891649
>>115887585
Is that a fretless bass?
--- 115892253
>>115891649
That's a bass range Viola da Gamba, it has frets but only in the upper part
The instrument was generally played vertically, like a cello, with a bow, which you can see in his right hand.
People used to think that painting was kind of a joke, playing a viola da gamba in guitar position, but it seems like it was common for the smaller ones, like tenor viola da gamba.
a famous painting of the 1500s featuring that is Veronese's Wedding at Cana
--- 115892659
>>115887306
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBGTujNJ7h0 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQY-LgVdJuE [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnY4G2Z57-Y [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypULrx72-DY [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjmYgRm7Ef0 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKHHG3IQnac [Embed]
--- 115892725
https://youtu.be/Hh8vskF1k5c [Embed]

his movements are so smooth
--- 115892989
>>115885247
>>115883968
Familiarize yourself with basic music theory and try to dissect what is happening at any point in a piece. Classical music can be difficult to appreciate without understanding the fundamentals first. Once you've grasped the basics you start to naturally listening for how a composer will play around with different ideas and how they each fit into a piece. Music theory for classical composition is surprisingly open-ended so you get a lot of variety with how you could apporach writing it, which makes it fun to try and figure out how one composer came up with something entirely unique using the same base building blocks as everybody else.
--- 115893078
I'm reorganizing my collection tomorrow. what is your tagging system?
--- 115893233
>>115891649

It's the instrument the lady in blue is playing, these are all viola da gambas of different range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tL1FjrC2ic&list=RD0tL1FjrC2ic&start_radio=1 [Embed]

This is my favorite version of Bach's Passacaglia, even if the performers are hobbists and the harpsichord basso continuo can't be heard at all
--- 115893878
>>115893233
Gambists were always hobbysts who looked down on professional musicians.
--- 115894720
Beethoven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI--cfRW7dk [Embed]
--- 115895687
>>115892659
Nice. I always preferred the slower aria in 51. Never listened to 114, i like that one a lot

https://youtu.be/m5i0rO0Z-wo?list=PLwa0pjRQ9jDQgi02wyJoOwGMWtplcQIuz&t=213 [Embed]
https://youtu.be/rWY02RC2LSQ?list=PLwa0pjRQ9jDQgi02wyJoOwGMWtplcQIuz&t=1 [Embed]
--- 115895842
>>115883968
imagine it's you playing/conducting the piece in front of a bunch of impressed friends
--- 115896861
arvo part - symphony no.4
anything by mahler
--- 115896939
>>115883968
Try to follow the music more. If it helps to close your eyes, just do that. I do this as well when the audience annoys me. Your instincts are right though. All composers are autistic.
--- 115896990
>>115885242
>>115862141
>>115863630
For some reason I didn't have Walter (age is a factor here) and Chailly, I'm downloading and will report back if they're better than Abbado. Somebody here recommended Bertini and he's pretty based as well.
--- 115897025
>>115896990
Can't hear the bells ringing at the end of No.2 for Walter so in the trash he goes.
--- 115897343
lets get some actually interesting music in this thread instead of the same old harmonies we have been listening to for the past 400 years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPPsn8Nbei8 [Embed]
--- 115897425
>>115897343
more interesting than good
--- 115897490
>>115883968
are you white?
--- 115897686
>>115897425
its phenomenal right? How about some Bartok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Ik7hUcK4s [Embed]
--- 115898983
>>115897343
--- 115899247
https://robertgreenbergmusic.com/download/richard-wagner-music/
--- 115899331
>>115899247
thank you sister
--- 115899445
Which composers are objectively good? I'm afraid everything I enjoy might actually be shit.
--- 115899456
>>115892989
>Familiarize yourself with basic music theory
I've already done that, I think? Read a few books and articles on music theory, been taught music history in school (especially recognising forms and styles).
>try to dissect what is happening at any point in a piece
Does that include recognising the tonality and specific chords? I can hear that a part is more sombre or more tense and such stuff...

>>115895842
I stopped doing that a decade ago. I like gesturing while listening to classical at home though, but only for stuff I've already heard previously a few times.

>>115896939
>Your instincts are right though. All composers are autistic.
I don't see how those two things are connected. The autism might be found only in myself.
--- 115900629
Strauss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTEkFI6iHsY [Embed]
--- 115900815
>>115899445
Just stick to Bach to be really safe. He has enough pieces anyway.
--- 115901602
>>115860807
Walter before his heart attack is the easy choice if we're speaking strictly interpretively. His New York 1st, 2nd, and 5th are really fantastic despite their issues of sound quality. The really frustrating thing about the 2nd symphony is that it actually sounds like good early stereo for the first 4 movements and then sounds really bad in the last movement for whatever reason. They must have recorded the movements seperately and that one had shitty mics.
--- 115901631
>>115890918
Most famous performers of classical are Jewish, period. Well, these days it's mostly Asians, but in the past it was mostly Jews.
--- 115902245
has anyone ever surpassed Richter's WTC on piano?
--- 115902360
>>115902245
Fischer, Richter is too robotic
--- 115903733
Handel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSbTfDb4u4A [Embed]
--- 115903790
>>115893878
rightfully so, imagine doing music professionally lmao
--- 115903832
>>115897686
try Copland before he sold out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJec1XdObNg [Embed]
--- 115903939
>>115892989
I've been playing piano for 30 years, have a BA in Music Theory, have written a full piano sonata in classical style and used to write fugues for fun. My mind still wanders at classical concerts if the music is unfamiliar and doesn't have a hook I enjoy. The best way to improve my chances of enjoying a classical concert is to listen to the program ahead of time and learn as much about the works as I can. This is somewhat less true for the baroque and classical eras. But late romantic and 20th century tend to be very challenging for me without preparation.
--- 115904140
>>115883968
I just go to concerts to sleep, anon. You should too if you value your physical and mental health.
--- 115907015
why is /classical/ so dead now
i miss all my classical frens :(
--- 115907095
>>115907015
maybe people had kids
--- 115908238
>>115902360
thank you hisster sister
--- 115908301
can someone recommend me a minor key piano fugue with a cool theme that is not too hard to play and where the last voice sets in very "satisfyingly" in the bass?
the other voice(s) shouldn't stop while the last voice sets in like in bwv 847 for example.
--- 115908670
>>115860807
What's the verdict on Bernstein's?
--- 115908704
>>115908670
total trash
--- 115908787
Maybe not the right place, but what are people's thoughts on Apple's new classical music app?

[spoiler]If that's off topic, then tell me about the last classical concert you went to[/spoiler]
--- 115909632
>>115898983
Kek.
--- 115909660
>>115902360
Based. But to be fair they're the two greatest recordings of the piece.
--- 115909682
>>115908787
It's not off topic, people have been mentioning it lately. Apparently it's fairly good.
--- 115910184
Unironically, what is this? I have never heard anything similar. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHLoHZY4yGw [Embed]
--- 115910220
>>115899456
>Does that include recognising the tonality and specific chords?
More or less. Just listen beyond how it makes you feel and try to mentally deconstruct how the components that make up the piece you're listening to. Like is the harmony/melody leading up to somewhere or is it wallowing in place? What are the dynamics in different sections? How are individual voices playing into each other. etc.?
There is obviously more nuance to it but the more you intently listen, the more naturally the pattern recognition process will become. Also read the sheet music of the music you like and figure out what the composer did during certain sections that made it sound good.
>>115903939
>My mind still wanders at classical concerts if the music is unfamiliar and doesn't have a hook I enjoy
No shit, if I don't particularly enjoy a piece, i will zone out too, but that goes for any music, not just classical. Mozart occasionally lost interest at his own rehearsals to sperg out and go full cat-boy mode and he was a savant, skill level doesn't say anything about whether you'll enjoy something.
--- 115910614
>>115899247
Worth reading?
--- 115910764
>>115910614
not at all
--- 115911035
>>115910184
Listen to polytonal music, especially American, lots of augmented harmonies which tend to crop up in that style
--- 115911142
Charles Ives - A son of a gambolier (probably written when he was a student at Yale University).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow1dznt-RrU [Embed]
--- 115911161
>>115911142
more interesting than good
--- 115911309
>>115910764
Damn, Greenberg got obliterated.
--- 115911494
Which Romantic-or-earlier composers, if revived today, would enjoy rock music?
--- 115911801
>>115911494
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
--- 115912245
>[Labelname] and Sons
--- 115912772
>>115873223
So he was Baroque Led Zeppelin?
--- 115912884
>>115911801
Anon! >>115912772 Anon! >>115912772 Post your super funny post totally-not-autistic-anon!
--- 115912906
>>115912772
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
>>115912884
not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
--- 115912974
do you split your .cue files?
--- 115914519
>>115910220
>No shit, if I don't particularly enjoy a piece, i will zone out too
Yeah well my point is more that if I went to a concert and heard Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms for the first time there's a good chance I wouldn't follow it at all. But ever since I spent 6 months in a choir practicing it and learning about it, I'd have no problem paying attention to a live performance.

More generally, there's definitely skill involved when it comes to recognizing forms and their implications. To really appreciate a work in sonata form you should be able to identify the themes, recognize variations and distinguish them from transitions. To get the most out of a fugue you should be able to hear the subject when it's diminished, augmented, backwards or upside-down. This gets harder with late romantic and 20th century symphonies.
--- 115914666
>>115901631
Not really
--- 115914836
>>115908787
Has anyone tried IDAGIO? It's another classical music app.
--- 115914900
>>115914836
yeah i tried that one but just the free version and it's extremely limited with annoying ads
--- 115915070
>>115914900
Screw that then. I'll just wait for the Apple Classical one to come to android.
--- 115915559
>Live in a big city
>Can only listen to post-1800 music live
I'll take what I can get, but I'd kill to be able to hear high quality Bach arrangements https://youtu.be/bXwHORPeOsg [Embed]
--- 115915789
>>115914836
I used both and apple is better. The Idagio app is so slow that I would need 2 minutes to go from starting the search to listening. Idagio also had less recordings last time I used it.
>>115915559
in Germany it's almost the other way around. Seems like every town has their own Bachverein and if you want to hear some organ just go to church and the organist will most likely play Bach.
--- 115915969
Classical guitar history
>The guitar was not a respectable instrument, until Fernando Sor made it into one
>The guitar was not a respectable instrument before Dionisio Aguado, who was responsible for elevating the instrument's status
>Before Tarrega, the guitar was seen as a popular or folk instrument. He brought it to the concert stage
>Segovia was responsible for single-handedly popularizing the guitar on concert settings. Before Segovia, there was no classical guitar
Is the historiography fucked up or does this thing get a reboot every time someone picks it up?
--- 115916141
>>115915969
It just means that classical guitar is still not a respectable instrument.
--- 115916295
Meaningless question, but do you ever binge various movements from different pieces rather than listening to a single work continuously, and if so how often? More in regards to long pieces like symphonies and such, not groups of things like preludes or studies.
--- 115916443
bjorling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPEG914GATk [Embed]
--- 115916841
>>115915969
classical guitarists were post-grunge shredders

>practice all day every day to impress 50 people
>overshadowed by every other kind of guitarist except in the eyes of classical guitarists
>so little competition in the field that any of them who made it are considered greats
>insist on needing a special guitar for their style of play
>make boring music with excessive ornamentation, but lacking the complexity that made prior ornate music good
--- 115916937
>>115916841
>>overshadowed by every other kind of guitarist except in the eyes of classical guitarists
That makes no sense, it was instrument played by peasants in taverns.
>insist on needing a special guitar for their style of play
It was the only kind of guitar that existed, other than the extinct baroque one.
--- 115916968
>>115916937
quite insipid
--- 115917027
>>115916443
Wagner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NauOM-tPRP4 [Embed]
--- 115919174
Schumann

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVUkJhEbJMk [Embed]
--- 115919744
Fugues seem to be where creativity goes to die in modern composition. I can't believe they've become nearly synonymous with counterpoint when only Bach wrote decent fugues, and most of his fugues are not particularly interesting relative to his corpus as a whole.

That said, someone post a modern composer who is like Bach but does more than write soulless piano fugues, because I've already encountered many of that sort
--- 115920014
>experienced pianist
>getting tense joints everywhere when playing
Fucking why
--- 115920511
>>115919744

These 2 by Piazzolla (not even sure if it can be considered classical) are the only modern fugues I enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfhytCKz4f0 [Embed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XdaFR6mIC4 [Embed]
--- 115920696
>>115919744
>only Bach wrote decent fugues
>most of his fugues are not particularly interesting relative to his corpus as a whole.
--- 115920781
>>115920696
He's right, fugues are a shit form of music. Merely a technical exercise. Good to know how to write them so that you can employ the techniques in other compositions, but not terribly interesting to listen to.

Even most of the fugues Bach wrote were just etudes/studies.
--- 115920959
>>115916141
True.
The possibilities of the guitar were hugely expanded by the introduction of the electric guitar, yet Classical composers are still in current year too afraid to write for it because of its association with rock music. If not for the fucking Beatles we'd have electric guitar concertos and Sonatas for Electric Guitar by now.

Not talking about metal shredding or pedal fuckery or some shit btw just a clean guitar through an amplifier. It has a beautiful tambor too. Look at Jazz guitar. Just imagine that sound with an orchestra. Would work perfectly.
--- 115920999
>>115920959
i take the opinions of people who cannot spell timbre seriously
--- 115921058
>>115920999
I am almost 100% beyond doubt more knowledgeable and skilled in music, the topic at hand, than you
--- 115921100
>>115920959

I don't see why an electric guitar concerto wouldn't use all the pedals and distortions you could possibly use with a guitar. If you are going to do it dive completely into it.
I'm not interested in classical music featuring a saxophone, if they intend to make the saxophone not sound like the instrument of Jazz and 80s sax solos. Otherwise keep on using trumpets and clarinets.
--- 115921102
>>115921058
i take the claims of people who cannot spell timbre seriously
--- 115921144
>>115920781
Fugues or at least a fugal conception towards counterpoint is at the heart of like 80% of Bach's total writing. If you can't hear that then you are massively filtered.
--- 115921236
>>115921144
Yes, in fact I basically said that, but pure fugues are not great music for listening and aren't really meant for that. The technique in the context of a larger piece is great.
--- 115921360
>>115921236
>t. counterpointlet
--- 115921483
>>115921236
I love listening to Bach fugues because I get satisfaction that someone has similar ideas about amazing and profound musical architecture/structure as me. I can relate to Bach that this is the ultimate form in terms of expressing emotion in music. There are truly no more powerful moments for me than when he puts a major episode in a minor piece or vise versa, or when he strettos or combines different subjects together. Nothing else even comes close. 

https://youtu.be/eHqdyFvAhOw?t=358 [Embed]
--- 115921570
>>115921360
I "enjoy" listening to them in an intellectual sense but that's not the same as the enjoyment of a Mozart piece, for instance. Few who are not uber-dedicated classically trained keyboardists or the like would disagree with me, I think.
--- 115921591
>>115921483
Fair. To each his own.
--- 115922321
>>115919744
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Z40SJg4GA [Embed]
--- 115922337
>>115921570
I enjoy listening to Mozart very "intellectually" as well; the primary appeal of his music is the symmetry, clarity of form and idea, and counterpoint. I'm curious what is the "non-intellectual" way to enjoy the Mozart?
--- 115922386
>>115921236
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W4PJUOeVYw [Embed]
I think the fugue is one of the most intense and interesting forms of music to listen to
--- 115922391
i'm always surprised at how many old women like classical music
--- 115922482
>>115919744
Bach saw the limitations stemming from the strict rules of counterpoint as a challenge and as a means of being more creative. 

The issue with specifically modern composers writing fugues is because they aren't nearly as steeped in compositional limitations as the composers of the baroque era were, and writing in forms like the fugue requires both immense respect for the rules of counterpoint and the creativity to work around these rules without explicitly breaking them
--- 115922646
I like Schuricht a lot
I just found a recording of Das Lied von der Erde from 1939 that is great, the singers are probably much better than any active heldentenor and alto.
But something weird happens, in the Abschied a Nazi woman in the audience tells Deutschland Uber Alles

https://youtu.be/Iv3wVuRyQLI?t=3222 [Embed]

It made me realize that women always believe in what is popular. In puritanical times they are the most fanatical puritans, in victorian times the most fanatical victorians, in nazi times the most fanatical nazis, and in progressive times the most fanatical progressives. Witch hunt mindset.
--- 115922815
>>115922321
BASED
BBBASED
--- 115923164
>>115922646
i like schuricht too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCQDh3hELbQ [Embed]
--- 115923551
neo-baroque music is the worst, they take the most entry-level music of the baroque period and copy the most superficial aspects of it like imitative counterpoint with none of the soul or any thought behind the actual pieces, really just tragic.
--- 115923590
>>115923551
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFEBTbNs4yk&vl=en [Embed]
I like Grieg's Holberg Suite
--- 115923659
>>115920781
>He's right, fugues are a shit form of music. Merely a technical exercise.
You're retarded. Fugues are great and your "doesn't count if it's part of something else" distinction is arbitrary. There were many stylistic trends in the Classical and Romantic eras where straight-up standalone Bach-style fugues didn't fit too well. But there are still plenty of great ones (including two great ones in Brahms' Requiem).
> Bach wrote were just ...studies
I've never encountered anything Bach wrote that could be fairly called "just" anything. Everything he wrote was good.
>>115921236
Can't even come remotely close to agreeing with this. Even just listening to the WTC, the fugues are more substantial. They are consistently highly creative and expressive with lots of clever detail, beautiful passages and satisfying counterpoint. Bach's fugues tend to modulate freely as they don't have the kind of well-defined tonal structure typical of eg classical sonata form, but it's just as capable of producing beauty. 
>>115921570
>Few who are not uber-dedicated classically trained keyboardists or the like would disagree with me, I think.
tripling down on this dumbassery?
All you need is patience and a good performance and maybe some repetition to gain appreciation. Anyone can listen to this fugue and enjoy how beautiful it is, even if they thinking about the impressive compositional skill it takes to write a fugue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJCpUW1Q1yc [Embed]

>>115922337
>I'm curious what is the "non-intellectual" way to enjoy the Mozart?
Mozart does tend to have a lot of catchy, memorable melodies and themes. He seems to think the only two options are "uber-dedicated classically trained keyboardist" and zfg normalfag who only knows Rondo Alla Turca and Fur Elise.
--- 115924022
>>115923659
You're wrong and pretentious. And also low-IQ, sorry.

Bach would think you're retarded for exalting so highly these etudes he wrote in 2 minutes for a book meant to demonstrate a tuning system and teach aspiring beginners. 

And yes, everyone who does this is wrong.
--- 115924059
>>115923590
That's not really neo-baroque... I mean I guess it kinda technically counts because it's co-opting the dance suite but the musical material contained within is pure standard Romantic fare. 
I meant more stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86wr8JjzJ5Y [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnQYpq9eGg [Embed]
Decent compositions to be sure but lacking the essence of Baroque music... more like a creatively bankrupt appropriation than the spiritually fulfilling music of the Baroque. Not even any ornaments. Reflects the spiritually dying essence of the 20th century in my opinion...
--- 115924074
>>115924022
All he said was it's an enjoyable piece dude
--- 115924127
>>115924059
Fair... I think this goes for anybody trying to replicate music from an earlier time. You can try to emulate the sound but without actually being immersed in the culture of the period it just comes off as kind of shallow.
--- 115924137
>>115924022
>if a piece is used for instruction you can't enjoy it on artistic merit anymore!!!

Bach would shit himself laughing at you.
--- 115924330
>>115924137
No, he wouldn't. Composers of Bach's time did not even think of themselves as artists. They were craftsmen, and they crafted products for practical purposes, for education or enjoyment or religious service. He would find it extremely strange that people played the WTC or the Two-Part Inventions, and so on etc., for live concerts. Ergo he would probably agree with me.
--- 115924409
>>115924266
>>115924330
The idea of the artist as craftsman and the idea of pieces of art having artistic merit beyond their immediate material applications do not conflict.
Also samefag.
--- 115924442
>>115924330
>people used to pray to Anubis in an Egyptian temple 3000 years ago
>anon comes over
>tourists are taking photos and looking at the frescoes
>anon calls them idiots because they're not praying to Anubis
--- 115924648
>>115924409
Well, if we are discussing the viewpoint of Bach, which was the line of argumentation I was following after >>115924137 , then yes, it would conflict, as prior stated.

If modern people believe that the WTC is "high art" regardless of its original function, then okay, but they are, in my opinion and that of Bach (which should be taken into consideration), wrong, though it is of course an exquisite piece of craftsmanship.

But this is getting far from the original argument about the fugue, which I will restate is more of an academic exercise than a proper "piece of music", and musicologists would 100% beyond any doubt whatsoever complete agree with me one hunnid no cap. That's why Baroque went out of fashion in favor of Classical. If you enjoy it regardless on a "detached" "unintellectual" level, that's entirely fine, but I disagree.
--- 115924805
>>115924648
You are wrong not only in what you think Bach believed, but also what you think musicologists believe.
Bach didn't just crank out fugues and canons passionlessly as an obligation to his patrons, whether they be the church, or whatever.
https://flypaper.soundfly.com/write/bachs-worldview-was-way-different-from-ours/
Art back then was all about revealing the hidden beauties of the world, and in a way it's poetic that the fugue as a piece that is entirely set around the revelation and deep exploration of a theme was his primary method of doing so...
Musicologists know this, and a cursory glance on any analysis of a fugue or other counterpoint-centric composition styles will reveal that they are not in fact only concerned with the technical correctness of the execution of the music, but the beauty of the melodic contour, andthe art of exploration...
Classical has entirely different aims to this contrapuntal style.. It's like saying that Classical went out of fashion in favor of serialism, therefore serialism is a more proper "piece of music." Both have their own objectives; apples to oranges.
--- 115924920
>I am fascinated by the creative potential of “musical theology,” a pre-Enlightenment relic from the tradition in which J.S. Bach thrived. For Bach and his cronies [? as if Bach was The King of Music in his time], music theory was a direct extension and reflection of metaphysical and religious truths. The major chord, three notes in one sound, was the trinity; equal temperament (a practical approximation that detunes each note slightly from the mathematical ratios of just intonation) represented the sinning imperfections of humankind, a musical Fall from God-made purity.

Complete and utter pretentious nonsense, not to mention simply egregiously historically incorrect on several fronts. Wagner and his insertion of German metaphysics into art music have been a disaster for the human race.

The goal of music is to express music.

M.
--- 115925008
>>115921144
>Fugues or at least a fugal conception towards counterpoint is at the heart of like 80% of Bach's total writing.
>fugal conception towards counterpoint 
What the fuck are you on about? Fugues derive from imitative counterpoint, not the other way around
--- 115925014
>>115924920
denying the influence of God on the music of the devout Lutheran Bach, are we?
--- 115925451
>>115924442
>he doesn't pray to Anubis every night before bed
ngmi
--- 115925543
>>115903832
incredible! Thank you for this
--- 115925694
pleaee rec me recordings of Beethoven's piano concertos. I've only heard Vladar.
--- 115925701
>>115925014
what, you never read that one giant article that claimed Bach was an atheist?
--- 115926054
Thoughts on Brian's Gothic Symphony?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSfAA5UiR-8&t=2239s [Embed]
--- 115927430
I have resigned myself to the Lord. Deliver me almighty one and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P21qlB0K-Bs [Embed]

B.
--- 115927478
>>115927430
>Deliver me almighty one and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass among us”.
Fixed
--- 115927638
Rec me some good looking classical singers (women) that have lots of video content. I would even watch full opera recordings with video if I liked them. Please.
--- 115927673
>>115927478
amogus??????
--- 115927715
>>115924920
>The goal of music is to express music.
Reminder that this is a programmatic statement just as much as saying 'the goal of music is to express religious truth' or 'drama'. Music is music.
--- 115927733
>>115924648
>But this is getting far from the original argument about the fugue, which I will restate is more of an academic exercise than a proper "piece of music", and musicologists would 100% beyond any doubt whatsoever complete agree with me one hunnid no cap.
You keep restating this and yet have no response to any counter-arguments except to dismiss as "pretentious."
>>115924805
Correct.
These are just exercises: >>115885708
--- 115927802
>>115924022
>pretentious
No, just using the language required in response to your lazy and arrogant assertion.
Do you claim the WTC Fugues aren't substantial?
>Bach would think
This fantasy is just you deflecting because you're unable to make a real argument to support your claim.
>for a book meant to demonstrate a tuning system and teach aspiring beginners
This can be true without supporting your claim they are not for listening. Based on observed reality, it's far more reasonable to conclude that any time Bach decided to write something, he diligently created something impressive to stand the test of time.
--- 115929412
>>115925694
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k-E_qWXYGE [Embed]
--- 115930117
>>115862924
Christ is risen.
--- 115930155
>>115860585 (OP)
What classical would she mainly enjoy?
--- 115930180
>>115930155
Probably would listen to Synthesia videos of Chopin Nocturne and say she's into classical music
--- 115930886
>>115930155
thank you sister
--- 115931664
what do we think of Abbado's 1982 Mahler 3?
--- 115931740
>>115931664
quite putrid
--- 115931794
>>115931740
why is that?
--- 115932407
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tln9AQ5Lj8 [Embed]
--- 115932638
>>115924059
>Baroque
Post baroque that is not Bach, I dare you.
--- 115932796
>>115902245
Gulda
--- 115933107
>>115862924
the opening chorus of the St. Matthews passion is like 7 times better than this
--- 115934070
>>115932638
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfHZGYiKkAo [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeUcGD4rRRc [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zokWqygsWQc [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b490Mb9CCDU [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMVI7z5GYRU [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32mY6g6boM8 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TxPhruLo4o [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpQw0UH-YV4 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmdlIpZBuqs [Embed]
Side note, fuck, Lully hits hard...
--- 115934104
>>115934070
he hit his foot hard with a stick
--- 115934243
>>115860585 (OP)
Does any prefer organ compositions to piano ones? I know, pretty autistic but it think it has a better timbre
--- 115934279
>>115931794
very dumb
--- 115934357
What was Bach like when he used 100% of his musical power? Or is he like the brain and he could not go past 20ù of his musical power?
--- 115934420
>>115934243
What are your favorite organ pieces?
For me, it's Merkel's sonatas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qF1gUNlnY8 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ORZr0WXvU [Embed]
--- 115934478
>>115932638
Baroque composed less than a century ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xZuA968cmE [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj1tvLV73_A [Embed]
--- 115934588
>>115920781
You've won the retard olympics.
--- 115934636
>>115926054
It's my favorite symphony.
--- 115934650
>>115934243
Yes, organ is vastly superior to piano in every way
>unisons
>infinite sustain
>uses feet for more than just special effects
>wide variety of timbres built in without having to pour trash into the instrument

What's your favorite type of stop? Mine is flute.

>>115934420
I know this is an entry level pick but it still stands up, also, anything by Reger is good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF0e9CSQNXQ [Embed]
--- 115934670
>>115934070
you've made me realize that I don't like Baroque, only Bach

>>115934357
>What was Bach like when he used 100% of his musical power?
https://youtu.be/Ih51HIyTW0Q?t=872 [Embed]
--- 115934751
>>115926054
sounds like a John Williams OST. 3/10
--- 115934752
Played on this beauty a month back. It had 12 stops for the pedal alone.
>>115934243
Organ is king of instruments. Piano is an instrument for women.
>>115934420
BWV 577
>>115934650
32' contra bombarde, have yet to play one one that has it.
--- 115934757
>>115934650
>anything by Reger is good
you should listen to Karg-Elert
>>115934650
>favorite type of stop
I'd say reeds
--- 115934837
>>115934752
It could be powered manually. That's pretty unique.
--- 115934839
>>115926054
>110 minutes
why are symphonyfags like this?
--- 115934864
>>115926054
Check out this if you like Brian.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE__Tyze3sk [Embed]
--- 115934868
Baroque vs classical vs romantic is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether or not your melodies are uninspired goyslop or whether they're divinely inspired. And this is why Bach is the only good composer, baroque or otherwise.

https://youtu.be/E2j-frfK-yg?t=16 [Embed]

B.
--- 115934922
>>115934752
>32' contra bombarde, have yet to play one one that has it.
oh fuck yes, nothing even remotely compares to that earthquake contrabass
>>115934757
>you should listen to Karg-Elert
Thanks for the rec, anon
--- 115935007
>>115934839
>t. short attention span chamber music zoomer
--- 115935016
>>115924022
>You're wrong and pretentious. And also low-IQ, sorry.
--- 115935202
>>115930155
She would probably be the type to only listen to Bach, Mozart and Beethoven and talk about how music is le mathematics and their sound is le classically inspired, rock bands do this a lot.
--- 115935219
>>115873223
Not like this, Handelsisters
--- 115935615
>why yes, I do only consider performances that play all repeats when ranking or recommending "best version of" a piece
--- 115935638
>>115934839
no longer than the average movie, retard
--- 115935725
>>115935007
Being able to listen to garbage for almost 2 hours without a break is not something you should brag about
--- 115936746
>>115934839
They want to trick us into thinking that interesting has to be boring
--- 115938518
where do i start with bach?
--- 115938543
Listening to classical is like reading a comic book. I can imagine the movement of the panels and the music similarly.
--- 115938732
>>115938518
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY7zXdy2tbc [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipNuUYGv1zQ [Embed]
--- 115939413
>>115938732
the (3) fugues of BWV 552 are good, but the prelude is even better
https://youtu.be/jr_jK-fzglM [Embed]
--- 115939578
>>115938732
>>115939413
i started with the brandenburg concertos, i'm sorry
--- 115939976
>>115939578
that's actually what I would recommend starting with unless they really like vocal music
--- 115940486
>>115860585 (OP)
Your favorite version of Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto in E minor?
--- 115940577
I'm the pedo anon who likes Carl Nielsen, and right now, I think that VIVALDI REALLY IS THE BEST EVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER.
--- 115941336
>>115938518
Actually listening to him right now. The Organ works imo. It's a long compilation but worth it
--- 115941346
>>115934650
Might have to give me an idea what that is honestly.
--- 115941365
>>115938518
>>115941336
I cannot for my life begin to enjoy Bach. I like Beethoven, Mozart, Mendelson, Bruckner, Mahler etc. almost any other old classical

I think I just am limited by my 105 iq
--- 115941406
>>115902245
I must admit as a Richter WTC enjoyer, that his recording is probably massively boosted by the recording quality, the same way the best porn is boosted by shitty video quality.
It gives an atmosphere that is simply unmatched.
--- 115941951
What is the most emotionally complex piece in your opinion? I'm always impressed when one makes me feel happy and sad at once. It's sublime that people could illustrate such feelings in music.