v/634329895.txt

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--- 634329895
Why did Tree of Savior die?
--- 634330012
>south Korean mmo
gee I wonder why
--- 634330162
Koreans are somehow more greedy and creatively bankrupt than anyone else.
They make some of the most abhorrent shit MMOs that exist. 
Look at Flyff.
They made a reboot of it called Flyff Universe and they DOUBLED DOWN on the P2W elements instead of doing right by the community. Now it's just german whales and mentally broken shills playing it who have spent hundreds if not thousands on the game and can't imagine quitting now.
--- 634330386
I remember trying it at release, it felt like a bumpy rollercoaster, not what I expected. At some points the grind would become way more than I expected.
--- 634330426
>game launches
>"gee devs, your game has all these cool class ideas, but literally everything else about it is cancerous garbage"
>new update: "we have reworked classes! :)"
>"gee devs, your update to classes is cool, but literally everything else about it is STILL cancerous garbage"
>new update: "we have reworked classes! again! :)"
>"gee devs, your update to classes is cool, but literally everything else about it is STILL cancerous garbage"
>new update: "guess what we reworked! :)"
>repeat for the game's entire lifespan
That's why.
--- 634330431
>>634329895 (OP)
>The game was rushed as fuck, it took years for stats to do actually do anything.
>The game was nothing like RO, it was clear the devs didn't know what made RO so good.
>The internet had changed.
--- 634330583
>>634329895 (OP)
I wish someone would make a single-player game with similar graphics and gameplay.
--- 634330631
It marketed itself solely, and wholly on "ragnarok, like the good old days".
Then launched, and had all the stupid qol shit that cripples and outright gores social interaction (The thing people want to be enforced)
then they updated classes. lmao.
Also stupid enhance/enchant system that is outright p2w. Why bother.
--- 634330734
>asian servers all got merged into one megaserver
>will NEVER happen for the west
pisses me off.
--- 634330739
>>634329895 (OP)
>>634329895 (OP)
Any kind of korean MMORPG that dares to compete against Elsword literally dies
See Closers, DFO, this one and MS2
--- 634330860
they badly managed the addition of new content with the quickening of earlier areas/loot, at some point the game became incomprehensible for new players, who got like 100 levels in an hour then are left with nothing to start the new content, ignorant of dungeons and craft entiely
--- 634330937
I did it.
--- 634330953
>>634330162
Problem is Koreans just inherently play MMORPGs differently from westerners.
--- 634331105
Did not deliver on the Ragnarok experience

Basically on rails quest levelling. No exploration

No PVP or WOE equivalent until it was dead

Shame because the artstyle and combat was so right
--- 634331121
>>634330426
Proves that nothing good comes from listening to fans
--- 634331882
>>634330012
>>634330162

>Korea

That's all anyone needs to hear to write off literally any MMO. I don't think it's possible for them to make an MMO that isn't just very elaborate gambling.

>Complete this dungeon and choose from four chests (ONE of which MIGHT have equipment you need)
>Or you can buy items with real money that reveal the chests' contents, so IF the equipment is in one of the chests, you can be guaranteed to get it (but if none of them have it, then all the items you used to look at chest contents were wasted)
>And then upgrade that equipment to +15, but each upgrade attempt has a chance to fail
>And each upgrade attempt requires reagents (which might also require RNG luck to acquire)
>And the more you upgrade the equipment, the more likely upgrade attempts will fail
>And then it becomes possible that the equipment will downgrade instead of upgrade when you try to upgrade it
>But don't worry! There are items you can buy with real money to prevent the equipment from downgrading (though these items will be consumed regardless of whether the upgrade works)
>And then there chances that the equipment will break entirely, requiring you to get another one and start from scratch, wasting all your effort and money so far
>But don't worry! There are items you can buy with even MORE real money to prevent the equipment from breaking! (Though they cannot be used in tandem with the items that prevent downgrading)
>Did I mention that for high-end gear, which is the only gear you'd want to upgrade, you need SEVERAL downgrade-preventing or break-preventing items per upgrade attempt?

Grinding on top of gambling on top of grinding on top of gambling.
--- 634332187
>>634330953
So they play like retards?
--- 634332881
>>634329895 (OP)
The game ran like shit and making a spiritual sucessor to RO with quest based progression is beyond retarded.
Besides, it was all super linear. I got reasonably far into the game and can't remember a single zone.
--- 634333150
>>634330739
DnF obliterates elsword though. elsword isn't even squeaking 100k players monthly globally anymore, dnf hits 10m regularly.
--- 634333790
who else is going to play the new server next month?

everyone is going to start fresh so I'm looking forward to it

world of warcraft classic launch was a very fun week with everyone leveling together, specially booty bay
--- 634334313
>Play beta with buddy
>I play tank he plays healer
>Almost none of his skills work
>All my skills work
>Theres never really a reason for him to heal anyway
>Active block means I dont even need to be a tank
What a shit experience it was. Never looked back.
--- 634334427
>>634329895 (OP)
fked up balance
poor translation
fk ton of bots
--- 634334741
Because (You) weren't the savior
--- 634334991
>>634331882
Your greentext is why I stopped playing Black Desert. Korean game mindset is absolute fucking cancer I don't understand how anyone can stomach that shit.
--- 634335125
>>634329895 (OP)
I'm not sure if I can put this into words exactly but the game has (or had, when I last played) an extreme identity crisis.
The beta and early release days were a lot of fun but I seriously have no idea what I was supposed to be doing as I got to the higher levels. It just seemed all over the fucking place.
--- 634335273
>>634329895 (OP)
I loved the trailers and loved Ragnarok. Sucks that it died. I tried giving it some thought but I didn't feel the spark RO had
--- 634335402
How did Ragnarok Online do it? How was it so popular and make people come back to play it every few months? What did it do so right?
--- 634335468
Where do i play ragnarok thats not just 20 dudes multiboxing?
--- 634335502
>>634333150
>10m
On the asia servers, right? I actually played DFO the other day and it was dead af
--- 634335664
>Tree of Savior released March 28, 2016
all my tosg frens are surely dead
--- 634335832
>>634329895 (OP)
I think that the idea of having like 300 levels at launch is what fucked up the game, it would have been way easier to balance and create content for a game with only 100 levels. Its a shame that Koreans dont understand the concept of horizontal progression.
--- 634335856
>>634335402
It was different generation of people with different mindset about games. People actually emerged into that shit back then. 
 Games were trash, but people who played those games made it fun.
--- 634335875
How hard is it to just make RO again
--- 634335980
>>634333790
The fact tree of savior uses 3D model for the character and not sprites, is an impressive feat.
--- 634336064
>>634335856
Current fast society with tons of work won't make such an intensive game be as popular. There is a reason there is a rise to shit like gacha: it's more convenient to handle.
It could use the same world (god I love the world of Ragnarok) but it likely would need to revamp the farming a bit
--- 634336090
>>634335875
It would never get approved.
--- 634336110
>>634329895 (OP)
the game died because the brazilians swarmed the game and spammed it to fucking death and then they bought chinese bots to continue spamming and generally just being disgusting
--- 634336478
>>634336064
Gacha RO added auto for grind, but at the same time they added korean online limiter for grinding. You can only grind exp and items in battle for ~150 minutes per day. gayest shit i have ever seen.
--- 634336793
>>634335980
kinda reminds me of guilty gear xrd, I actually thought both games used sprites at first, but it turns out it's just smart use of shaders

maybe it's the thick black lines around the model that help create this illusion
--- 634336825
>>634336478
Jesus
--- 634337201
>>634330953
more like drones. they are basically just chinks biologically
--- 634337273
>>634335664
--- 634337640
>>634336793
Its a combination of effects, I think the characters have dedicated camera with a orthogonal projection to give them a 2D look, then you have the soft light shader and the black outlines.
Great art direction.
--- 634337662
>only discussion about the game was lore and class combinations
>completely rework it to become boring
--- 634337690
>>634329895 (OP)
it was fun for its first couple months.
Then it wasn't.
--- 634337997
the ones responsible for ToS state should be prosecuted
prove me wrong
--- 634338162
>>634330012
Wtf back in the day SK made all the most kino MMORPGS
>Nexus TK
>Gunbound
>Ragnarok Online
>Maple Story

Has this dynamic changed? Last I recall all the western and non-korean mmos like WoW and Everquest sucked and all the Korean ones were the good ones. That's what it was like in the good old early days.
--- 634338228
>>634337662
Wait that too? When I played there was a lot of freedom mixing up
>>634338162
>>Gunbound
Goddammit the memories are rising through. Used to play that, WYD and Priston Tale
--- 634338453
>>634337273
/tosg/ went to shit once the troon erp fags invaded
--- 634338632
>>634331882
If there's one thing I approve of in PSO2 is that they did away with the upgrades destroying or downgrading your weapon thing. Augments are still chance based but it's easy to get free versions of the chance increasing items.
--- 634338706
>>634331882
The equipment grind really did kill my interest in korean games. I was a kid and played a lot of Vindictus where max equipment enhance level was +15. Anything past +8 has a chance to reset your equipment. Past +10 has a chance to fucking destroy the equipment. And cash shop items could only be used on items up to +12 so the final upgrades were pure RNG.

Wasted like $800 in that game using my hard earned paychecks before quitting. Never again with Korean MMOs.
--- 634338840
>>634335502
Yes that's why I said dnf, not dfo. dfo is a shitty knockoff that has never once banned a bot, they didn't even bother to rename dnf duel to dfo duel because it would do nothing to aid the brand marketing.
--- 634338916
>>634338632
Original PSO2 for the first like 7 years was pure kino. I had no issues playing the game and ignoring the pay to play shit. New Genesis completely ruined it though.
--- 634338929
>>634333790
I was looking into it but everything I see says the new server is asia pacific, why would I subject myself to 200~ ping?
--- 634339147
>>634338228
Last time I played you can only pick 3 classes tops + your base so you can't make abominations like Lolipantsu, I think they reworked it again.
--- 634339417
>>634338929
I was referring to the new Papayaplay "global" server

since it's "global" I'm assuming we will have at least one NA, one EU and one Asia server
--- 634339680
>>634339417
Oh I thought you meant the big giga merge one.
I wouldn't trust papayaplay for shitall. It's a garbage company that specializes in buying up hosting rights, milking it with p2w, and then dropping crew to a skeleton when it's no longer popular/past it's initial spike.
Happened with latale.
--- 634340049
>>634329895 (OP)
The combat and range of classes/abilities is insanely good. But the korean grinding lock out shit on everything like being unable to do more than a handful of dungeons a week made it pointless to play.
--- 634340265
Was too linear and followed many terrible modern MMO conventions.
But over the years i also have accepted that it was unironically the best MMO to come out in years, simply because it actually did let me build my very own character. I had fun trying out meme builds with many new characters.
I haven't found a single recent MMO that managed to do this, and i doubt i will for many upcoming years still. I would rather replay TOS than suffering watching FFXiV keep butchering and removing any flavour from it's numerous class.
Also one of the few games were support roles could be made interesting. Meta or even good? Maybe not, but it was more than a simple healslut.
A flawed game that could have been a masterpiece. But ultimately still one i find myself drawn to just for the sake of creating yet another terrible build.
--- 634340275
too pure for this world
but god has his plan
--- 634340279
>They released an unfinished game with incomplete/bugged quests 
>Broken/bugged classes
>The game had garbage performance, I couldnt get past 10~15 fps on world bosses.
>No end game at all

I played the first month and dropped it, idk how its now but even if they fixed it, its way too late.
--- 634340442
i love tree of savior
tree of savior not love it's players

it is made by 2 developers/programmers, updates are very rarely, and include usually like, 1 raid. come on, Lost Ark doing the same, but updates every 3 months and giving 100 times more content, and it is more polished

i love tree of savior and want it to gee good, but it will not be

i was leader of some clan and it was okay, we spent lots of time hunting worldbosses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II8_cojsh1E [Embed]
--- 634340596
>>634338162
I liked Gunbound. I wonder if there is some other Worms ripoff online these days.
--- 634341256
>>634340275
but it's still up
idk there's lots of games people migrate
--- 634341521
Game was launched in such infinished state that entire questlines were missing, forcing players to grind exp for multiple levels without proper grinding zones.Some level ranges were so bad that you had to plan your leveling to use the exp cards on that level range because there were literally no grinding spots for that level and if you spent your exp cards on the wrong levels you were SCREWED because you would have to grind on garbage spawns that give you trash exp for days.
--- 634341586
>item in collection has very low droprate
>only one monster spawns on that map, on a thirty minute timer
that killed it for me
--- 634342059
>>634341521
>>634341245
did you really delete your post to add a capital S and a comma?
--- 634342167
>>634338453
sounds like every mmo general,it's fun until people start getting bored and horny then everything goes to shit
--- 634342169
>>634342059
I'm about to delete it again to fix the "infinished" typo.
--- 634342282
I miss /tosg/, I was surprised to meet some people from it in /xivg/ but I guess it's all that's really left for MMOs.
--- 634342430
>>634342169
--- 634342692
Not enough boys playing it.
--- 634342903
>>634329895 (OP)
>it's supposed to be a spiritual successor to Ragnarok Online
>wasn't even close to it
Also game ran like shit for so long and by the time they fixed it no one cared anymore. We can never go back to the Ragnarok days and this game hammered home that opinion for me.
--- 634343546
>>634342692
schizo
--- 634344404
>>634342282
you probably aren't ever going to meet anyone who just sticks to one mmo anymore anon
--- 634344791
>>634329895 (OP)
>themepark WoW quests
>killing mobs gives virtually no exp
>map progression is 2 tube paths that eventually become 1 tube path
They could make essentially Ragnarok 2 by literally scrapping the game without creating a single extra asset and they deliberately choose not to.
--- 634345196
>>634331121
To an extent. You need a vision for a game to be unique and good. But once you release your masterpiece it’s okay to take in a couple of suggestions if it will make the game more fun for casuals.
--- 634345350
>>634343546
I'm normal.
--- 634345871
>>634329895 (OP)
The developers of Tree of Savior are complete idiost. They must have been high on drugs when they came up with that piece of crap game. Their family must be embarrassed to have them as their relative. I bet they all wish he would just disappear. The fact that people actually played that game is beyond me. I mean, who wants to spend their time doing the same thing over and over again just to level up? It's not like it was even fun. The only thing that was enjoyable about it was watching it fail. Good riddance to that garbage.
--- 634346903
>>634329895 (OP)
this shit needs a fanmade private server with p2w shit removed, easier and free access to cosmetics, and a lot of fixed up shit. Only then would it have potential as a game. But it will never have that. In the hands of it's developers and publishers it's forever wasted potential. 

It looks pretty but has nothing else going for it, it's a fucking mess and it's obvious to the player within seconds of playing it, so who in their right mind would stick with this game in it's current state is beyond me.
--- 634347067
>>634329895 (OP)
because of healmage
--- 634348167
>>634342547
kek
--- 634349402
>>634342282
>tranny fantasy 14
please leave
--- 634349578
>closed beta access for months
>finally open the game
>70k pop that the devs cant handle
>go back to closed beta
>launch game again in 2~ months
>hype is dead
--- 634349868
>>634329895 (OP)
Isn't that the game that was set in my home town Šiauliai and has baltic mythos?
--- 634349971
>>634329895 (OP)
you know why
--- 634350054
>>634329895 (OP)
failed to recapture what made Ragnarok great
--- 634350189
>>634329895 (OP)
I originally quit around this time. The actual chronology of what went down eludes me, but I think it went:
>Necro afk farming is contentious for inflating the market
>Devs say it's okay
>Update drops that inverts drop rates; hyper-inflating the market
>Devs do a rollback and fix the bug
>Oops, no they didn't. The bug is still live.
>Devs start banning people taking advantage of the bug while they scramble to fix the issue.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about any of this, but I do remember they failed to fix the bug at least once if not more times.

At the time I took issue with them punishing players for inflating the market due to their own incompetence while necro-farmers had been doing that this entire time. Combined with the issues fixing the bug and the current state of the game it reeked of mismanagement. I was already looking for a reason to quit and they gave me one.

I went back a few years later on a random itch to find they removed a lot of maps. Pretty sad. It was also still rather dull to play in addition to being a ghost town so I dropped it again and haven't looked back.
--- 634350195
>>634330386
everyone expected it to be a comfy campfire experience when it first came out, and was even advertised that way with classes specifically meant for setting up camps and buffs for party members, but then they stapled the worst kind of themepark quest system onto it to where having ~1 level difference between your party members meant they got zero benefit from grinding or leveling. And this is significant in a game that has ~300 levels.
--- 634350314
>>634330426
For me it was 
>new update: "we re-worked the cash shop :)"
>What about the classes?
>new update: "we have the new cash shop! :)"
>What about the experience bugs in a party? 
>new update: "Summer dresses! Only $39.99 :)"
--- 634350389
>>634331121
The game is nothing like what the fans wanted.
--- 634350459
>have a ton of classes
>everyone just pick dude with big sword that does a ton of damage 
Such a disappointment
--- 634350515
>>634342282
Yeah, I want a new MMO but the genre is dead.
--- 634350583
>>634342282
i'm playing a game with a /tosg/ right now. some of these guys turned out to be lifelong friends, and i'm forever thankful for the chance to meet them
--- 634350612
>>634341521
>Game was launched in such infinished state that entire questlines were missing, forcing players to grind exp for multiple levels without proper grinding zones.
Remember the fucking bees?
--- 634350930
>>634341521
>if you spent your exp cards on the wrong levels you were SCREWED because you would have to grind on garbage spawns that give you trash exp for days.
This shit was the worst kind of cancer. they give EXP cards but they don't explain what they are for or where you're supposed to use them, so 99% of players used them as they got them, blind to the reality that they were meant for the quest lines that were unfinished 
And then there was a group XP bug where being a level apart from anyone else meant you gained none, zero experience even if you're in the same party and on the same quest.
--- 634350940
>>634335664
I'm alive.
One day, the MMO dark ages will end and maybe a non-garbage game will be announced. And when that day comes, we'll all play together again.
--- 634350996
>>634335664
we are here
--- 634351027
>>634340442
That looks like fun anon
>made by 2 developers
I didn't know that. I thought it was made by a bigger team.
--- 634351247
>>634350940
>>634350583
>>634335664
I miss you tosg, I wish we get to meet up again someday.
--- 634351382
>>634342692
Hello Gax.
--- 634351407
>>634337273
>be Maribelle 
>Lost contact with EVERYONE after tosg died
--- 634351441
>>634337690
Everyone looks kinda same-y, have they added better customization yet?
--- 634351480
>>634338632
Honestly, the upgrade breaking weapons is a good thing. It offers the game a giant sink for top tier items.
The problem is once you start mixing P2W or pay for convinience as the kids call it nowdays into systems like these. Then it just fucks the game.
--- 634351491
>>634333790
ToS bros...we're going home.
--- 634351547
>>634333790
Which new one 
Is it official? I'm not sure I want to deal with these devs again
--- 634351594
>>634332881
Yep. I got into grindfests with RO. And i loved that there were so many zones of a simmilar level you could go too. No quests to do, just find a mob you can handle or gear for it, and party on.
--- 634351658
Wasn't this the game where /v/ had threads and stickies of key giveaways and made people do dumb shit like post their dicks for keys? I can't believe the hype died after all that.
--- 634351686
>>634351247
i miss you too
--- 634351694
>>634351547
They sold licensing to Papaya Play, who's going to be hosting a global ToS server with a fresh start. It's the exact same thing as Steam TOS but different publisher.
--- 634351784
what was the name of eu guild? they were alright blokes
--- 634351785
>>634334991
Yep same after beta was done didn't bother with that trash. People wonder why they get nostalgia over older MMOs where you paid a monthly fee and just had to catch a spawn or grind the same mob for the loot. Everyone was pretty much equal except the lucky fkers that got the drop sooner.
--- 634351860
>>634338453
no it was dead long before that when people gave the pantsu clown attention.
--- 634351903
>>634351686
>didn't get databased
FUCK
--- 634351918
>>634351658
Yes that happened. That was only the beginning though.
/tosg/ was the fastest moving thread on 4chan for many months after that. We had several /vg/ guilds because too many people were playing to fit into a single one. The united /vg/ guilds collective was the major power behind the game for a very long time.
--- 634351992
>>634351694
So are these guys any better? What is their track record?
--- 634352132
>>634351992
I have never heard of them but from what I read, they buy dead online games and keep them alive with skeleton crews while giving them a second milking run of cash shop stuff. It's not looking very good for it.

There are people working on Tree of Savior private servers but it's years away from a playable state.
--- 634352295
>>634329895 (OP)
burst into flames
--- 634352423
>>634329895 (OP)
never once played the game but I do still sometimes listen to the soundtrack 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSsBda4Sz7g [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is5HmTs9Oi0 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO2MmuOSWyE [Embed]
--- 634352610
>>634352132
Any word on if they're bringing back any of the maps they removed or is it just going to be the game as it was when it was abandoned?
--- 634352623
>>634351784
The SEA server /vg/ guild was also based. I remember talking to their guild master and they told me about their own little turf wars.
Apparently they had beef with the Malaysian guilds and they would get all rilled up when he would call them "sons of housemaids". I wish I could remember the details.
--- 634352693
>>634330426
>Make a weapon type that's only accessible at around the Lv100s
>"YOU CAN MAKE ANY CLASS YOUR FIRST CLASS CHANGE!"
>Half the classes still feel like they are meant to compliment a base class like Berserker, Highlander or Priest
Okay, but thematically won't a boujee Fencer and skillful Matador feel weird to have at low levels even if there are lv. 15 rapiers now?
--- 634352783
>>634352610
We don't know anything yet. No release date, specs, no anything. All they said is that they are "probably going to be alligned with Steam TOS updates", which means it's going to be 1:1 copy of them.
--- 634352892
>>634352783
Fuck. 
So that's just it, then.
--- 634352893
>>634351860
What the fuck did you just fucking say about my guild leader, you little bitch I'll have you know Lolipan has some of the most Futureproof™ builds in this game and has been involved in numerous open world guild wars, and he has over 300 confirmed kills. He is trained in spawn-camping warfare and he's the top swordsman on the entire Klaipeda server. You are nothing to him but just another target. He will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before in this game, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit about him over the internet think again, fucker. As we speak he is contacting his secret network of misinfo agents across Discord and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. He can be anywhere, anytime, and he can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with his Murmillo. Not only is he extensively trained in dungeon rushing, but he has access to Korasai and he will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the server, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have played the fucking game. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. He will zerg his guild all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, retard.
--- 634353030
i liked lolipan 
the contribution to the thread, mostly of taking screenshots of upskirts when characters got knocked down, was invaluable knowledge.
--- 634353073
way too much attention whoring
--- 634353221
>>634352693
The reworked system for jobs completely killed customization. You can only pick 3 classes now and you're forced to take all 3 circles of it. This is a failed attempted "fix" for the problem of where early DPS jobs fell off hard, and some classes' benefits were all frontloaded in the first circle(such as scout, linker and corsair).
It's exactly the same thing they did for stats. They couldn't figure out how to balance stats and because of it, every build was "every point into STR" or "every point into VIT" so they "fixed" it by making stat points assign automatically and now you can't customize shit anymore.
Anytime I remember the development history of this game looks like, it makes me irrationally mad. This game was going to save MMOs but it buried them instead. Notice that after Tree of Savior, MapleStory2, Blade and Soul, Black Desert and ArchAge all came out very close to each other all flopped for the same reasons, there has not been a single promising MMO to come out. Nothing, none, zero, nada.
--- 634353287
>>634330012
ok now explain lost ark
--- 634353320
>>634331882
You nearly described Elsword to a T. Kinda funny (sad) how much of that applies, even though they did away with the higher upgrade = more protection materials used bullshit.

And in a day and age where having a +11 or +12 on that game is mandatory to get anywhere, there are still somehow people who fucking defend it and all the other shit the company shoves down their throats
>b-but b-slot is free now!!!
Fuck off.
--- 634353484
>>634353287
>Wonky being a dipshit with Maple
>Absolute state of DFO like the director RMT'ing epics
>Nexongate in general
Yeah I wonder why Lost Ark blew up in Korea.
--- 634353690
>>634353287
isn't lost ark extremely p2w and grindy, the usual kmmo garbage?
--- 634353801
>getting namedropped and having pasta posted
>7 years later, on a different board
--- 634354513
>>634353320
Bro people will defend anything.
>lost ark
>blatant p2w system where upgrades lock you out of raids
>you can straight up buy mats from the cash shop
>capped ammount of mats you can get per day
Meanwhile people will still defend it because you can technically roll as many alts as a free account will allow you and funnel mats into you rmain. You only need to play 5 characters to keep up with someone who can still swipe and overtake you in progression. Fucking grade A retarded design.
--- 634355279
>>634353801
>Namedropp yourself
>GUYS I'M SO FAMOUS I'M GONNA CUUUM
Don't forget you were the biggest cuck as well lolicuck
--- 634356080
>>634353801
literally rent free every day of my damn life, pan
--- 634356387
>>634353221
>They couldn't figure out how to balance stats and because of it, every build was "every point into STR" or "every point into VIT" so they "fixed" it by making stat points assign automatically and now you can't customize shit anymore.
Kek, Diablo 3 syndrome
--- 634356467
The changes to the game over its life were overall good imo the game was peak “you think you do but you don’t”
I miss Tosg Change still best skill
--- 634356773
>>634329895 (OP)
--- 634356834
>>634329895 (OP)
Really shitty predatory monetization practices.
--- 634356941
>>634338162
Because we were too young to know better. All those games had terrible grinding or other problems like netcode and hacking (in the case of GunZ and Gunbond).
--- 634356957
>>634356773
I remember Blue Spion archers but yeah he is right very few monsters in ToS have actual abilities, I remember making a Druid and testing monster skills there was very little even among Change exclusive monsters.
The Sequoia boss you could play as was funny as shit though
--- 634357269
>>634338162
>NexusTK
I always feel like Ragnarok was inspired by that, especially with how Payon in the game is an old, Korean village. I believe Mabinogi was also supposed to be a remake of NexusTK before settling with a Celtic theme.
--- 634357395
the game looks cute and looks like a cute lifeskill grinder...too bad everything sucks :(
--- 634357535
>>634356957
Many monsters in RO also had no abilities, just the aforementioned parameters of speed, damage and so on. Yet you can play the sound effect of a Hunter Fly into a RO veterans ear and watch their fingers twitch to move to the Fly Wing / Teleport Clip hotkey.
--- 634357539
>>634356387
All they had to do was look at how RO does stats. It's easy, it's so fucking easy.
--- 634357916
I just wanted to say if anyone was here for the American release that I was rocking the 1-2nd place for almost two days as "hitler was right"
It was pretty funny, well back on topic. I stopped playing after about a year or two because
1. the pvp was buggy as fuck
2. the community was too fucking quiet
3. the level cap was getting retarded 
4. the classes were kind of dogshit (was a necromancer and hated needing mats for shit but summon farming was pretty legit until it was killed)
5. because after exploring most of the game it lost it's charm
6. the quests seemed repetitive
7. paying for fun stuff seemed kind of gay (not poor but too much shit was paywalled)
8. i repeat the community was too fucking quiet, I had an easier time finding company on the korean servers before the us release
9. They nerfed something that pissed me off but I can't remember what it was
--- 634357964
>>634357535
I didn’t play RO honestly I found the RO vets in the community super annoying because they all had played their own little private servers with x20 xp rates and despite blabbing on and on “it’s about the journey not the destination” the RO vets wouldn’t advance beyond single player questing
--- 634358389
>>634329895 (OP)
Because it was retardedly grindy and anything fun got nerfed fast on top of being able to easily fuck up your character?
--- 634360659
>>634357916
>1. the pvp was buggy as fuck
god remember that first guild war /vg/ and that big RO clan had which crashed the WHOLE FUCKING SERVER because an instance couldn't stand more than ~30 people?
--- 634361018
>>634329895 (OP)
The music in this game was so fuckin good. Shame it's in such a mediocre product.
--- 634361202
>>634360659
At a certain point, we started declaring war on every guild tower we could possibly find. Eventually they started hiding the towers in tiny little corners on random maps but then randoms picked up on it and, when they found them, would shout on global chat for us to go.
Before that madness was cut short by the neutrality patch, we were getting into war against 10+ guilds at a time.
And yes, a skirmish between us and enemy guilds would immediately turn a channel red from too many people being in there. But I don't recall us crashing the server.
--- 634361407
>>634361202
Reminder that builds were never futureproof.
--- 634361443
>>634361202
>But I don't recall us crashing the server.
It was the VERY first one, like in CBT3, before towers were even a thing. We just agreed to meet somewhere, showed up, and it tanked the server.
--- 634361862
>>634329895 (OP)
I remember being really hype and making up builds with friends before the release, and just being real fuckin disapointed when the game released, I dont even remember why
--- 634362053
>>634361407
After two or three Renewals of course they wouldn't be. But people were really obsessed with "futureproof builds" at the time since the prospect of resets was not on the table at that point.

>>634361443
There were no guilds wars on iCBT2 and there were no English CBTs after that. You must be thinking of the kOBT that started about 1 week after iCBT2 ended. The ones you had to have a Nexon KR account to play.
The very first time /vg/ did a guild war on Tree of Savior was here on kOBT, against Unity(the Reddit guild).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrrLOB1Gmak [Embed]
This went on for a long time but I don't remember it crashing the game or even the channel. I just remember that it was a fucking slideshow because Tree of Savior is the single most unoptimized game of all time.
--- 634362687
>>634361862
>I dont even remember why
Probably because 
>Parties were broke, you couldn't party up and receive XP for all members ofthe party 
>Quests were equally broke
>All of the theorycrafting went out the window as bugs prevented building the most anticipated builds and skill trees until a bunch were re-worked months later.
--- 634362782
>>634362053
It must have been in English OBT because I wasn't on kOBT. 
All I remember is that the GM was talking mad shit all over the forums about taking over the server, pushing out the 4chan idiots, and conquer- and then that war happened and he immediately quit and went back to his private server. Any details past that are fuzzy.
--- 634363027
>>634362053
>>634362782
When is the next big game?
I need some memes
--- 634363120
>>634362687
Don't forget the bug that prevented people from doing quests as a party. If a cutscene were to happen, only the person who triggered it would get pulled on the cutscene. So everyone who was playing the game with friends quit because you couldn't progress as a group.
They let this bug persist for several months.

>>634362782
That sounds extremely unlikely because the 4chan guilds outnumbered even the reddit guilds by quite a large margin. And we were getting into fights every few hours too, so everyone was battle hardened.
When SteamToS launched it was early access at first. Maybe that's what you remember?

>>634363027
When MMOs are allowed to be good again.
--- 634363256
>>634363120
It must have been that, steam early access. Actually, I think it was that. I remember that was the point a lot of people got disappointed and quit. 
>>634363027
MMOs are dead
mmog is dead 
Korean MMOs are now gacha games 
Anon, I'm sorry, but you missed the boat. It won't happen unless one of us makes it.
--- 634363354
>>634363120
>Don't forget the bug that prevented people from doing quests as a party.
I REMEMBER THAT NOW! 
Having to un-party to turn in a quest or complete an objective. to the point where nobody was in a party, in a game based on RO that relied on parties. 
>They let this bug persist for several months.
And THIS always puzzled me the most because this seemed like the most important bug to fix.
--- 634363508
>>634363256
>missed the boat
Didn't miss it but I want to sail again.
--- 634363608
>>634363508
People that weren't there will never understand.
--- 634363768
>>634363508
I hope that anon in agdg makes that MMO of his dreams >Agdg >finishing
--- 634363796
>>634329895 (OP)
I guess I became a fucking normie after so many years from MMOs. 

The reason why I stopped playing Tree of Savior was solely because the quests weren't rewarding that many Exp Cards after I reach level 60 or something like that and the grinding was so slow. It was an immediate uninstall for me.

Aside from that, I just loved the atmosphere, music ans graphics of the game. It made me feel like I was playing Ragnarok Online again but I'm old and tired now. That energy isn't with me anymore.
--- 634364235
>>634336110
If you need any more proof how true this statement is, just look at the Papaya ToS server announcements about their upcoming version.
--- 634364320
>>634363608
jesus CHRIST this is a nostalgiarush 
>see myself in two of the pictures but don't remember at all what I was doing in them except just being in the background of someone else being a slut
>that damn cattly femboy fire gif that was in every. single. thread and was some kind of soft erp 
>every character got an upskirt 
>the first drawfag we ever had, and naturally he drew a femboy
>being reminded of the first Arde dagger that I got from PURE coincidence 
I wouldn't ask to do it over again, but I would ask that we could get something as unique as it was.
--- 634364726
This is the only scncap I have of the game and I can't remember why I took it
--- 634364807
>>634335125
holy fucking shit this is my image
--- 634365003
>be old TERA fag (talking CBT here)
>be old ToS fag

im getting old
--- 634365181
Blue Protocol will be our next game. Look forward to /bpo/ threads
--- 634365291
>>634364320
Nostalgia you say? Let me open up my mspaint drawfag folder.
--- 634365504
>>634364726
>playing a boy
--- 634365519
Game died because you're all trannies
--- 634365770
>>634365003
>tera wuz good
Tera wuz never fucking gud, it was unfinished as fuck and twice a week we got the privilege of running that lag fest worldboss howsit called with the alien then a dragon. That's all we had to fucking do on repeat. Then it went free to play.
--- 634365853
>>634364807
This still gets posted both in /tosg/ and on discord channels, all the time.
2 FPS hoglan more alive than the game.
--- 634365906
>>634365770
TERA was only good during the CBTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlc5W2lYirU [Embed]
The last time /v/ and /a/ got together and played an MMO and actually dominated an entire server. You had to be there.
--- 634366132
>>634365003
same
we probably played together a few times
>>634365770
Tera was just different. In its unfinished state, it was still the best action MMO of its era. Not being surpassed until BDO and B&S came out, and by then the game was long since dead and nerfed to oblivion.
--- 634366318
>>634365291
>pfweee
yep, the memories are rushing back
--- 634366379
>>634365906
I wasn't there i was french pretending to be girl after release. Do you realize how much tougher that is with our gendered language?
--- 634366515
>>634335664
Game was shit but I still had fun playing it with everyone from here.
Had really lots of fun leveling to 280 before r8 and during first few days of Miko class release.
--- 634366574
I fucking bet HealNigger is here right now.
--- 634367112
>>634329895 (OP)
I miss the betas
--- 634367201
>>634366574
I'm A healnigger but not THE healnigger
--- 634367238
>>634366574
stop badmouthing my wife
--- 634367357
>>634365906
Still hang out with the people I met on TERA in NFA/TFT from 10-11 years ago. Good times.
--- 634367468
>>634364726
It was a pretty rare weapon, even though it sucks.
--- 634367481
>>634367357
who is this
--- 634367596
I will never forgive the class system change.
I was a fucking zombie bokor and they took that away from me.
>Dude, just change to wiza-
NO.
--- 634367859
>>634367596
It's so weird. The fact that they were a cleric class had a lot of recurring plot importance, and they just change it.
Hell, Linker magic is established to be the one true form of magical damage and they. just. Move it to scout. And don't get me started with scout.
--- 634367880
>>634330426
For me it was
>You want to level with main story quests? Sorry we made that exp gain too low, you have to grind on monsters with high spawns to level up too.
>Oh you like leveling by farming monsters? We'll make that not worth doing. Go level in dungeons with a party and arbitrary daily entry limits.
>You like levelling in dungeons with parties? Nevermind it, we'll shove all the exp to main story quests
>Oh you enjoyed getting to 300 with main story exp? Sorry we decided from 300+ we'll 10x monster hp and make you grind instances of the maps
They could not settle on any one fucking thing about the game. Every year it was like relearning a brand new game.
--- 634367974
>>634367880
>Go level in dungeons with a party and arbitrary daily entry limits.
And then they broke parties AND dungeons 
What a fucking weird dev
--- 634368002
>>634367481
hi
--- 634368256
>>634353287
you know lost ark is also dying right? like half the playerbase is bots
--- 634368271
>>634367596
>I was a fucking zombie bokor
Same. I held the top spot in arena for a while, so I'm not gonna hear anyone tell me I didn't know what I was doing (they screamed it a lot, though).
Oh, speaking of arena, that went to shit too the moment they made weapon stats apply in that. Especially since practonium gear was such a major step up from anything before it, holy shit.
--- 634368414
>>634365853
based glad my 2fps hoglan lives on. god that game was so fucking unoptimized at the start it was a complete and utter mess
--- 634368463
Why did Ragnarok Online die?
--- 634368589
>game releases
>go monk route
>thought it was going to be an RO spiritual successor
>it wasn't

Monk was so dog shit.
--- 634368620
>>634329895 (OP)
Is it finally dead for real?
--- 634368630
Is there really not a SINGLE good RO server?
--- 634368640
>>634368463
It didn't, I'm doing shit with my guild right now.
--- 634368813
>tfw people would whisper/harass me because I set my sp potion prices too low for their liking
Eat shit, jews. I should check out what the current market price is now. I'm sitting on tens of thousands of them right now and could destroy the market overnight at any time.
--- 634369054
>>634368813
I miss when you could set your price for services and piss off everyone by operating at 0 profit. Of fucking course IMC took that away from us.
--- 634369080
>>634368463
Initially? People didn't want to adapt to renewal. Renewal mechanically was a mixed bag, the two things it gutted was MATK and it made leveling a theme park MMO instead of the open world MMO it was.
2014-onward? banning EU from the only none-asian server because they didn't want to abide by new EU datacollection laws and heavy pay to win shit constantly being released.
--- 634369289
Are there still any f2p mmos out there with an alive community?
--- 634369484
>>634368589
>Game releases
>Idea of being cryomancer being able to freeze shit sounded kino
>literal 0 damage and took a decade to kill anything and all the real good skills were locked behind C3
Literal regret. I probably would have stuck with the game on launch if I played hoplite
--- 634369565
>>634369484
Why do games always do this? Ice specializations always end up as 0 damage.
--- 634369671
>>634369484
>Support classes had buffs tailored specifically for cryokino
>Later removed because fuck you
Th-Thanks...
--- 634369703
>>634367596
Scout was a mistake. They never should have made that 5th class.
Nothing they gave scout made sense and very few worked together well. It was basically "Lets dump all non-healing support classes and any that use pistols together." for literally no reason.
--- 634369768
I gave up
the grind was just too fucking hard
--- 634369924
>>634331105
This
ToS is single player game disguised as MMO
--- 634370051
>>634369565
cryokino was actually really huge damage, the problem is you need to take psykino one level first then pump cryo and it became a single skill combo meme that couldn't do anything else until you hit level 60+ which took forever at launch.
But I obsessed wanting the snowball too hard and gimped myself over by thinking I didn't need kino with my cryo.
--- 634370242
>>634369924
It's a shame because there was some class combinations for co-op play, but it was awkward to pull off with lag and unless you was in voice chat/knew what the fuck to do.
--- 634370732
>>634338916
Even korean MMOs can be okay in their early life. But they eventually devolve into >>634331882 without exception.
--- 634370928
>>634367468
There was a brief period where you could stunlock people with it in pvp it was really funny, I think I might have been the one who resulted in people finding out because my class did 5 instances of damage per attack so if I touched somebody they’d be locked in place
--- 634371141
Alameth party 3/4 need healer
No monks
--- 634371426
>>634371141
>no monks
--- 634371504
>>634329895 (OP)
Ridiculous levels of grind at launch
Nonsensical translation 
Long cooldowns that would leave you running around trying not to die till they came up again
All the predatory monetization 
Layers on layers of nonsensical systems you had to interact with 

Had a cool class system though
--- 634371635
>>634329895 (OP)
NO MANA-MANA DROPS
WASTING SNIPES BECAUSE OF DESYNC
FWEE BEING USELESS EXCEPT FOR ANNOYING PEOPLE IN PVP
--- 634371801
>>634331105
I miss RO like you wouldn't believe. Give me a fuckton of maps with fuckton of mobs each with their own loot table for me to grind mindlessly for hours and I'm content. FML I wanna go back to 2004 bros...
--- 634372006
Chronomancer+Ice was cute.
--- 634372089
>>634371635
Fwee was like THE most broken class along with Chronomancer at launch could you even do ET without one?
--- 634372368
>>634371801
Best memory was solo defending some noobs guilds emperium.
They were so thankful until the last minute when I EDP'd them to oblivion and capped at the end. They cheered me on for at least an hour. 
I will always look fondly upon that sweet memory.
--- 634372529
>>634363256
>MMOs are dead
>mmog is dead
>Korean MMOs are now gacha games
One more: The internet and the community surrounding games is entirely different now. Even if someone made the "perfect" MMO, whatever that would be, it would probably fail because people are too conditioned to shitty korean ones.
--- 634373126
>>634331882
Its fucking annoying. I just want this game without the pointless grinding shit. Like a 30m coop dungeon runner.
--- 634373201
>>634368630
Alfheims big but has lots of custom changes and gravitys throwing DMCAs at them every so often but not following suite. Payon stories is also a thing but I dont know much about it.
--- 634375194
>>634368630
We can never agree on what good means. Everyone acknowledges that healers, warper and autoloot are devastating to the game balance but yet nobody wants to play without them.
--- 634375341
>>634371141
What was the name of that /tosg/ monk we always made fun of for being useless?
--- 634375613
>>634331882
My god, this is compete misery. I played a Korean mmo like this in the early days, and it's weird that they haven't moved from this.
--- 634375628
>>634365181
I can't wait for the threads to be complete shit thanks to handholding desu. I predict there being at least five separate meltdowns over it within the first week or two.
--- 634375636
>>634329895 (OP)
Because it was bad.

The original tiered class tree was terribly balanced and only a few meta builds actually worked. There's also the issue of the gibberish machine translation. 

The current system is actually decent, and they've been getting fan contributions to the translation and redoing dialogue. If the game had launched in THIS state it would be pretty good, but Lost Ark ate what was left of TOS's lunch, and now they have no players.
--- 634376020
>>634331882
>Complete this dungeon and choose from four chests (ONE of which MIGHT have equipment you need)
Nothing wrong with this.
>And then upgrade that equipment to +15, but each upgrade attempt has a chance to fail
Or this. It makes having a +15 piece of gear a serious accomplishment.
>And then there chances that the equipment will break entirely, requiring you to get another one and start from scratch, wasting all your effort and money so far
The intention is for you to farm multiple equipment bases, upgrade them all to the highest guaranteed value, then use one while attempting to create a better one on the side, and switch when you do.

>Real Money
There's the problem. A similar system in a subscription game where you can't outright buy the shortcuts with RMT (but you can buy/sell them to other players for in game currency) would be fine.
--- 634376130
>>634376020
shit eater
--- 634376358
>>634329895 (OP)
fucked up the launch with terrible jewish monetization and the reputation never recovered despite them eventually (after a very long time) walking back the restrictions f2p players had
--- 634376953
>>634370928
When Atagal Armor set came up, those 5 hits would return back x4 times. With the same mace and Guardian being broken back then with +100% dmg reduction, it would stop entire guilds on their tracks.
--- 634377169
Fuck DPK.
--- 634377383
I stopped playing early on when people discovered a dagger from the first dungeon or something gave you a 40 attack boost?

It was bullshit so I quit, did the game get better?
--- 634377817
Let me tell you my journey.
>Play auto attack gun riding cowboy quarrel shooter
>Class rework
>Play sorcerer because boss summon with double crossbow deal ton of damage
>Class rework
>Krivis for lighting bolt, druid for increasing attack stack limit then taoist for giga thunder nuke
>Class rework
>Thaumaturge + enchanter
>Holy shit speed boost and attack speed boost plus big ass arm, perfect for auto attack
>Class rework
>I done
--- 634378062
>>634377817
You had more patience than me.
--- 634378303
I miss shitty f2p korean games
--- 634378348
>>634350583
I used to hang out with Rance a lot but didn't really keep in touch since he mostly seems to play mobile games now.
I started my own FC in FFXIV and ended up meeting a few people from /tosg/ there, but never actually knew them in game, I think.
>>634351382
Hello! How are you doing friend?
--- 634378649
>>634350195
I agree with this guy. It's initial design concepts (or so we were lead to believe, perhaps naively) all pointed towards an RO style 'hang out and grind with your friends' gameplay structure. But then you got in and it was literally a theme park linear experience straight fucking through. 

I actually thought the base gameplay was pretty good too. The combat was simple but nice and crunchy so it felt good. And the art was obviously a huge draw. Would have worked great with RO non linear map design principles and all that class synergy it originally promised.

Maybe that wouldn't be that popular, or maybe that'd be too hard to monetize. I'd pay money for that kind of game. (or would have then I don't have any online friends anymore)
--- 634378779
>>634329895 (OP)
It was too lewd. Is it finally dead? I remember it was on life support with like barely any players on Steam years ago.
--- 634379190
>>634331882
This is why I don't play LostArk. I got burned by GookMMOs over 10 years ago with Aion. I played Maplestory, Trickster Online, Flyff. I remember it all and everything you just typed out hasn't changed at all in over 10 years. I can't believe anyone plays these gook games because they all have the same flaws. I learned the hard way. Japanese MMOs are the best version everytime of any online game. They get the grind just right.
--- 634379348
>>634329895 (OP)
I don't know who the game designer was but he didn't know how to make game. 

They made a on rails MMO something they should have never done it should have been an open world from the start like Ragnarok Online.

Then the roller coaster theme park ride suddenly came to a break halt midway, they didn't build the roller coaster they built half of it.

So people kind of stumped in a daze around wondering what the fuck to do.

FFXIV has you grind difficult raids or do dalies.
WoW has you grind dungeons and do dailies.
Genshin has you grind dailies and refine team composition for the lab.


Every MMO has some sort of massive time sink.

In RO that massive mega time sync was WoE, that enabled you to go to guild dungeons and get shit nobody had access to. There was also the massive timesink of static gear but insanely minimal drop rates.

Tree of Saviors systems were all designed flawed from the get go. I don't understand who the game designer was and how he thought it was a good idea. 

I played the beta and then the game and quit after about 200 hours because it was clear the game was going nowhere. I didn't like any of it's systems. I wanted a Ragnarok Online 2 a real one.
--- 634379356
>>634363027
Blue Protocol.
Except not really, but it'll be good for a few weeks of shitposting and maybe seeing some familiar people.
--- 634379571
>>634378348
Doing very well lately.
Rance, myself and a bunch of old /tosg/ people are playing Ragnarok on Deviruchi Club. Come join us if you're in the mood.
--- 634379668
>>634378649
>Maybe that wouldn't be that popular, or maybe that'd be too hard to monetize.
It's this. It's too easy to make money off low-effort gacha style design. And I honestly believe that there's a bigger audience for single player ""MMOs"" than comfy grind time wasters these days.
--- 634380021
>Maplestory 2 fail
>Ragnarok Online 2 fail
--- 634380023
>>634379668
I feel like there was an audience for it when ToS launched. Maybe not a huge one but there was definitely interest in that type of game then. Now I don't think so though, zoomers are wholly uninterested and people my age who played RO when internet itself was still novel don't really game at all anymore. But there's a huge audience for that gacha shit so it's no wonder that's all anyone makes. So easy to milk those people its crazy.
--- 634380053
>>634379571
I'm actually not too into RO, the movement mostly is what turns me off I'd say. I'm so busy with IRL stuff I barely have time to spend with my FC as is, haha. I just finished up with a con and met up with a few people from my FC there and I'm going to another around the end of the month and then to another in July and more after that. Making outfits is hard work...
--- 634380402
>>634379571
How do I get in contact with anyone once I'm there? I only barely remember a couple of members
--- 634380549
>>634380402
look for anyone in the Bullies guild, they hang out in Rachel.
--- 634381024
>>634329895 (OP)
The usual shit everyone already mentioned, but also:
>shitty overheat system and massive cooldowns on skills forcing you to fuck off and do nothing for extended periods
>shit scaling on earlier class abilities means even if you have enough abilities to maintain dps uptime, half of them don't do enough damage to be worth using anymore even having invested in them
>multiple classes with no functionally useful damage skills so you're fucked if you ever take a level in them
>basic bitch leveling content eventually reaches the point where exp for TTK sucks dick
>in later zones you're forced to play partied with a death blob so the monsters don't skull-fuck you and make you drop all your cash on death, if you haven't purchased consumable "don't lose your shit when dying" cash shop items.
--- 634381108
>>634379190
It’s a real shame on Lost Ark because I’d play it like a Diablo or a Last Epoch grindan game. It’s beautiful, skills are really cool, and some of the levels are really awesome like the castle siege but I can’t fucking stand all the predatory P2W bullshit.
--- 634381116
>>634380402
See >>634380549
Not too hard to spot us either, many use the same names as ToS.
--- 634381317
>>634375341
Koenig
I remember way too many of these faggots and nobody remembers me
--- 634381332
>>634350389
Fans just wanted RO 2.0, was it so hard to do just that?
--- 634381357
>>634329895 (OP)
What are you talking about? It's not even out yet.

https://www.papayaplay.com/tosevent/prevent.do
--- 634381560
>>634381332
For Korean companies yes. I always pity the devs.
--- 634381626
Did they ever fix FPS dropping to single digits the moment more than 5 enemies were on screen?
--- 634381929
>>634381024
>in later zones you're forced to play partied with a death blob so the monsters don't skull-fuck you and make you drop all your cash on death, if you haven't purchased consumable "don't lose your shit when dying" cash shop items.

In a MUD i used to play, there was a similar death system. You had to sacrifice a certain amount of EXP to get effectively extra lives. When they removed permadeath, you spent the extra lives instead in order to not drop all your shit and to lose less exp from the death (you still lose some but it's much, much less than what you would lose at 0 lives, and the amount you sacrifice to gain extra lives is so negligible there are people with hundreds running around).
--- 634381998
Finally, an excuse to post this gem.
--- 634382548
>>634381317
I tried to give attention to people, even the ones who talked less. I'm sorry if you ever felt left out.
--- 634382769
>>634381998
Oh I didn't have that one saved. Nice desu ne~
Have some external drama in exchange. These priceless moments are why MMOs are best. People are the best content.
--- 634382953
>>634329895 (OP)
I played for a bit back when it was new, until I got capped on progression and the only solution was to grind levels, and i calculated that it would take me something like 45 hours of grinding at the highest possible area I could access to advance.
--- 634382971
>>634329895 (OP)
>what if we remade RO
>except the combat is slow and everything has cooldowns
>also the combat is limited by ping, even normal attacks, so you've automatically excluded everyone who doesn't live near the servers
>also maps are empty because the main way to level is story quests from point A to B
>also let's tack on korean rng micotransactions to gear enhancement because the game is dying and we need to squeeze money from idiot whales
I feel sorry for the art and music teams getting wasted on this trash heap.
--- 634383052
>>634381317
I probably remember you if I heard your name because I am autistic about names, people, and places. 
And I'm probably a literally who.
--- 634383134
>>634329895 (OP)
The game performance was by far the worst part. I have no idea how you make an isometric 2D game that runs like ass.
--- 634383219
So after this game dies I intend to use tons of its assets to use as pieces for a different personal game I'm personally making (quite literally still set in . What company is going to own it and how Talmudic have they proven to be? I want to know if I can upload it online and not have some kind of lawyer task force instantly breathing down my neck.
--- 634383480
>>634381998
>play TERA with TFT way back when, fond memories, thought all the ERP shit was just a funny joke
>realize as time goes on that many people are no longer joking
>see many of the people I used to play with are now ff14 addicted troons
depressing
--- 634383667
>>634329895 (OP)
I absolutely loved the aesthetic. I wish it were a fleshed out single player RPG experience with good pacing and balance instead of a soulless KMMO. I supposed most KMMOs make me feel that way though; all looks, no substance.
--- 634384093
>>634383219
Nexon washed their hands off it so the only people who own it are IMC, I believe.
--- 634385584
Guys. I have a confession to make.
I killed CNL. The way I achieved this is utterly diabolical.
--- 634385685
>>634384093
Not quite, a new player has entered the arena.
--- 634385727
>>634331882
>koreans make amazing gameplay
>then they add all THIS garbage
it's so tiresome. why do they do it? how do koreans stomach this garbage?
--- 634385836
I miss the beta bros...
--- 634385896
>>634378779
--- 634385930
>>634385727
It's the way of the world now. They're just stores to sell you shit with gameplay tacked on to keep you coming back.
--- 634385943
isn't this getting a relaunch bay some other developer soon?
--- 634386036
>>634385836
Yeah, the lua or whatever hacks were hilarious as fuck. The fucking snowballs with the size of the whole screen and all the other shit.
--- 634386092
>>634385930
i probably dumped 6,000 dollars on maplestory and 3,500 in mabinogi. needless to say i am done with MMOs and have been for 2ish years now. games used to be good man, fuck
--- 634386180
>>634338162
>the most kino MMORPGS
Rose-tinted nostalgia glasses, all of those were just as awful as current free mmos now.
But you were too young to know better and all those games were "free" because you had too much free time as a kid
--- 634386260
How many sports cars did he end up with before the game finally died?
--- 634386330
>>634381108
Best you can hope for is either Epoch fixes online+endgame or you wait for D4(lol)
--- 634386456
>>634385685
They are not owners though.
--- 634386568
>>634385896
>>634386248
It pains me greatly that we'll never get another MMO with visible panties ever again in this day and age...
--- 634386609
>>634386568
>implying
nigga there are at least three current mmos that let you do exactly that
--- 634386614
>>634385943
Papayaplay is doing a SEA launch while calling themselves "global."
--- 634386653
>>634386568
Sapper uniforms are just pure sex.
--- 634386663
The best of ToS: music, and the sick face emote. I still listen the soundtrack mp3s. And the town maps.

The worst: fucking bots. Bots. I killed several with the boss invocations using the cards. GMs never cared. Why? Bots inflated the player numbers, faking playerbase. Disgusting. Also the lag and optimization.

Gook greed killed it. Such a sad story.
--- 634386692
>>634386092
Damn dude I was deep in the MMO (and later gacha) money trap but you've opened my eyes to how bad some people have it. I swore off F2P games after racking up 2k in credit card debt at most.
--- 634386693
>>634386609
Not when amazon games are hoarding all new MMOs.
--- 634386720
You are now remembering momohime.
--- 634386773
I miss you, /tosg/.
--- 634386818
>>634379348
I had a similar experience, playing the first month of the game. 
The thing that pulled all possible red flags in my head was the damage calculation vs monster stats. It's something that is so at the core of the whole gameplay that it being fucked is a massive problem for the faith you can have in that dev team. 
The whole server was chasing the fucking fire dagger (not sure if I remember correctly but I think you could even use it in off hand instead of a shield) from the ~lvl60 dungeon because having just that extra ATK was allowing you to do massive damage to enemies since the whole system was based on the retardedly basic Damage = *Your ATK* - *Enemy's DEF* and the extra ATK it was giving was allowing you to outpace the enemy's DEF so fucking hard it was mandatory to not do shit damage.
That stupid damage calculation was also the reason why your damage was almost exclusively going from "absolute garbage that almost doesn't move their life bar" to "almost a one shot" when you had skills off-cooldown, making it so that the game was just: use your skills->go afk during the cooldown because the damage without those felt so fucking terrible that it wasn't worth it.

I still can't believe that part of the team that did RO's battle design made a damage calculation that felt so broken and unrewarding to actively play.
--- 634386819
>this shit has an anime airing right now
Unreal.
--- 634386846
>>634386653
I like how in the middle one the artist clearly drew the boobs first and added everything else later.
--- 634386892
>>634386819
wut
--- 634386930
>>634386892
Yamada-kun, they call it Forest of Savior there.
--- 634386937
>>634386819
?
--- 634387012
>>634386930
Ohh, so that's what you meant.
--- 634387141
>>634330012
Fpbp.
--- 634387219
>>634386614
so what's ganna be new to it?
they ganna change shit or is it just the same?
--- 634387389
>>634386693
blue protocol will probably be modded fairly quickly
Even then there's non-amazon games, even if a lot of those games have their own issues (e.g. pso2 and its "no content" problem)
--- 634387442
>>634387389
Was Lost Ark ever modded? Don't they have that stupid anti-cheat?
--- 634387609
they nerf my class by fixing the bug
--- 634387615
The real question is, why won't Gravity just put up Ragnarok servers again? I mean considering what it would take to keep a game that old and simple running? It can't be a high maintenance cost at all, and I'm sure a lot of people would play it. Ragnarok has a ton of loyal fans who are all longing for it again.
I would love to play it again, the only worry I have is, even with a lot of people coming back, there won't be those random player encounters on random maps.
The game felt so alive because no matter what map you were on, you would come across a party on their way to some other place or some random dude leveling or looking for particular monsters that drop a particular item. Sometimes you would join them and help and just have a fun time and part ways.
That "living world" element would surely be gone even if they brought it back... But damn I wish I could just have a weekend of that old fun again.
--- 634387658
>>634387442
Lost Ark doesn't have many mods but easyanticheat is a huge meme. If some autist wanted to bypass it then they would've done so by now. They likely don't exist due to a good chunk of the playerbase getting banned for reasons as inane as not playing the game for a few months rather than the anti-cheat being too strict (Said bans counted as fucking STEAM VAC bans which caused a bit of a happening).
--- 634387789
>>634329895 (OP)
But /tosg/ lives!
>>>/vg/424413007
>>634349868
I'm from Lithuania too. Yes, it seems that they took some names from Baltic mythology and places.
--- 634387923
>>634349868
>>634387789
Damn, surprisingly a lot of my countrymen around here.
--- 634387950
>>634376020
You are the greatest faggot on this thread and it's not even close
--- 634388348
>>634329895 (OP)
Whatever happened to that artist who did all the art? It's felt like forever since seeing work from her
--- 634388374
>>634356773
>Mimic
>Slightly faster movespeed than a agi'd character
>Fuckloads of hit, ASPD and flee, so they WILL hit you, stunlock you and dodge your attacks.
>No good loot at all
>It's on half of the maps just to make you suffer.
Fuck those niggers.

But for me it's the "that will be 1% of your exp plus tip" of leveling acolytes.
--- 634388476
>>634388348
Still learning how to draw ears.
--- 634388645
Can you still put pictures on equipment?
--- 634388705
why did they take healing tiles from us
--- 634388762
>>634387950
t. ffxivtranny
MMOs aren't meant to be a genre where you do something once and you unsub for 4 months.
--- 634388808
>>634334427
>there are bots in tos
--- 634388867
>>634329895 (OP)
>so profitable that mobile version had been launched
try harder salty doomer
--- 634389116
>>634361202
where is healmage?
--- 634389285
>>634329895 (OP)
For the thousandth time, because it was a themepark MMO that tried to sell itself as a spiritual successor to Ragnarok online. Because it was pay to win. Because the classes were brain dead and the whole game focused too much on combat.
--- 634389425
>>634387615
There's RO official servers on all the major markets still.
--- 634389789
healmage is my wife now since y'all left
--- 634390051
>>634388374
>that map with invisible walls
>and walls that you could walk through
>and this huge faggot that you never knew if he was in a room connected to yours or not
>map didn't allow you to teleport
--- 634390118
>>634365423
I remember the male npcs could be impossibly hot, what the fuck is this?
--- 634390232
>>634333790
im going to think about it.
--- 634390310
>>634368589
Monks in RO were fucking insane
>get the BEST AA build on the game with combos
>get the BEST defensive ability in the game
>get the HIGHEST damage ability
>can self heal
>can teleport
>evasion bonus
>speed buff
--- 634390338
>>634390118
I love the artstyle of this game but the NPC portraits really put me off, I never liked them.
I would have preferred generic anime art style for portraits instead, unironically.
--- 634390493
>>634371504
Oh yeah that's one thing that doesn't get talked about enough, ragnarok didn't had any cooldowns whatsoever.
--- 634390530
>>634390493
emphasis on "had" lol, newest supersaiyan job tiers in RO have cooldowns.
--- 634390587
>>634390338
the dudes are hot though
--- 634390610
>>634390310
Combos in RO are completely worthless and useless.
It's not so much that they have defensive abilities, but more that Monks have the privilege of having shields 100% of the time and using maces, which are the best weapon type.
Asura is just too good if you min-max it, which is fucking easy because every server has resets. But people really sleep on Finger Offensive and its 1750% ATK damage.
Monks can heal themselves but they never do, the SP is too precious.
Everyone can teleport, the real big perk of having teleport is that it's the same skill tree as Pneuma, which is arguably the best defensive spell in the game.
Monk's evasion is shit and any monk with AGI is entirely useless for content.
The speed buff is nice and then it's made completely invalid after you unlock Body Relocation, which is what makes them really busted.

>>634390493
Some stuff had cooldowns, like Endure, Magnum Break and Soul Burn. Then a lot of skill had a ton of After Cast delay, like Lex Aeterna, Spiral Pierce and Soul Breaker.
--- 634390659
People wanted it similar to RO but didn’t have the freedom RO had and they’re jewing hard also limited dungeons entry and such
--- 634390820
>>634390610
>It's not so much that they have defensive abilities
bro, Steel Body is such a retarded skill that it warped the MVPing meta around it, nothing really comes close (as of pre-renewal).
--- 634390881
>>634365770
The only thing I really remember about TERA is that it had a really bad memory leak that never got patched which made it unplayable on a lot of machines and that the sorceress wore ball gowns as armor
--- 634391006
>>634329895 (OP)
Never played this game but it having names like Telsiai and Klaipeda is so hilarious to me
--- 634391043
>>634390820
Oh, there's Safety Wall spam I guess, but you still wanted an SB monk to be the one in it if available, just to be safe.
This is all assuming the harder MVPs of course, the weaker ones can be solo'd.
--- 634391072
>>634329895 (OP)
Unbelievably bad mismanagement/moderation. Thats all.
--- 634391136
>>634390820
Oh that's what you mean. Yes, I guess, but I wouldn't call it a defensive ability. It's more like "press a button to cheese the game".
--- 634391147
>>634330426
>we need these QOL improvements, please
>nope :3
>fiiine, we'll use mods
>mass-bannu!
--- 634391221
>>634377169
>Players are wondering why some items don't drop or in patterns
>some autists do some analysis by grinding for weeks
>Notice that some items drop exactly after X kills on the instance with X being incredible high for some items
>it doesn't matter who raised the kill counter only who did kill X
>Create a huge ass thread on the forums stating their findings adding ontop that some items never drop cause the counters are seemingly reset on maintenance
>People complain about this and don't want to believe cause it would be an incredible retarded mechanic
>At some point after a maintenance certain items which are theory crafted to be DPK on the US server start dropping en mass
>This confirms the theory even more cause this can be tracked down to the reset value seemingly being incorrect
>IMC handles this the most retarded way ever not doing a rollback but removing the items and whatever they are used for (including crafting) from players inventory while people who sold them could keep their cash
>This creates a huge outrage
>Duo to outrage IMC does a blogpost at some point confirming all findings
>This creates even more outrage
>They eventually give in and remove DPK and all of the items tied to this mechanic get a normal % loot chance
This was the very normal way IMC handling things. They also never bothered banning botters regardless of how many times you reported them.
--- 634391263
>>634391136
I'm not >>634390310 and I agree with the rest of your points.
There may be some MVPs where Auto Counter tanking can work, but it doesn't protect against skills.
--- 634391329
I miss being an ass with sage/professor in RO.
>Dispel
>Fog Wall
>Stone Curse
>Spell Breaker
>Magnetic Earth
>Soul Burn
>Soul Change
>Spider Web
>Abracadabra
--- 634391546
I still remember in the open beta when some guy on /tosg/ confessed to someone else and got rejected. I'm pretty sure it was this guy >>634351247 (see pic).

He actually seemed quite nice. I wonder how he's doing.

I'm also in this pic although I won't say who!
--- 634391550
>>634390530
ragnarok died with renewal
>>634390610
>Combos in RO are completely worthless and useless
It's the double attack from rogue except with three, and you get to shove in some nice extra damage with low sp consumption on the 4th. Since you need a lot of agility for it you end up with a lot of flee, which means you have a low maintenance build that can deal a lot of damage. Perfect for soloing as your first class.
>It's not so much that they have defensive abilities
>literally reduce the any damage taken by 90%
>Monks can heal themselves but they never do, the SP is too precious
That depends on your build and what you're farming.
>Monks can heal themselves but they never do, the SP is too precious
But not having to carry an item around was better.
>Monk's evasion is shit and any monk with AGI is entirely useless for content
You must have been dropped as a kid. A combo monk could solo farm almost every map in the game without barely any investment.
>it's made completely invalid
It increases your agility, which means your flee, your aspd AND it increases your movement speed. It means getting where you want faster, killing faster and getting hit less often.
--- 634391617
>>634388762
>item upgrade maxes at +15
>safe level stops at +4
>percentage to get to +5 is 10%
>drops to 1% for +6
>fractions beyond that
>every level can break the weapon permanently
yea no fuck for defending this absolute shit style of weapon upgrading. it's not done to curb progression, it's done to make bank. that's why it's trash and that's why that anon called you a faggot. and that anon is right.
--- 634391993
ToS was fun until the developers completely fucked it up by focusing on developing the wrong things. Still talk to a lot of the people I met there to this day. Still miss a lot of the people I met there to this day as well.
--- 634392143
>>634329895 (OP)
 I know why. Constant class reworks.
Levellimg up was only possible using lvl exp cards which only quests gave. Bosses and mobs didnt give any exp at all. Lack of fluidity in gameplay and really annoying world to navigate.

Its sad because the classes were incredible. Like it must be the only game with a defensive archer class. I will forever remember those pavisses
--- 634392290
>>634391617
You're a fucking idiot. You can have the same style of progression with different numbers that aren't purposely set so low as to force you to RMT.
--- 634393001
>>634381998
cute
erp can be fun, just dont get too autistic or serious about it
--- 634393312
>>634391480
>>634391546
Hold on a second! I have that on fucking tape.
Here, enjoy this blast from the past.
https://files.catbox.moe/kk6t2j.webm
--- 634393471
>>634391550
>It's the double attack from rogue except with three, and you get to shove in some nice extra damage with low sp consumption on the 4th. Since you need a lot of agility for it you end up with a lot of flee, which means you have a low maintenance build that can deal a lot of damage. Perfect for soloing as your first class.
Completely useless in a party, weaker than a proper auto attacking class, there's nowhere good to level. Getting to 99 on a combo monk is basically self torture.
>You must have been dropped as a kid. A combo monk could solo farm almost every map in the game without barely any investment.
Completely worthless past episode 10.
>It increases your agility, which means your flee, your aspd AND it increases your movement speed. It means getting where you want faster, killing faster and getting hit less often.
A monk should only be doing one of two things. Tanking in Steel Body(which makes you slow anyway) or Body Relocating for better positioning. Monks with AGI serve no purpose.
There's nothing they can do that half of the other jobs can't do better.
--- 634393549
>>634393312
Holy shit.
I miss everyone so much ;_;
--- 634393675
>>634391546
Is this futureproof?
--- 634393783
I tried playing this game a couple times.
>download game
>level my character with x200 exp tickets
>game lags like shit and can't see anything in party play because there's so many visual effects shit out on the screen
>get to max level but realize my guy does no damage
>get told it's because my weapon is shit
>to get the good weapon I need to farm some timegated instance
>but in order to farm that I need to farm some other weapon first so I'm strong enough to do it
--- 634393817
>>634393675
That forest hangout was for all /vg/ guilds. Not just FP but also cute and CuteNotLewd.
Here's a screenshot with names, from the day I quit.
--- 634393867
>>634331882
This is why i stopped playing dfo, even though i love its gameplay and graphics. Its amazing how what you wrote can describe basically any korean mmo
--- 634394037
>>634331882
Renewal Ragnarok's new Item Grading System is exactly this.
--- 634394220
>>634388374
>>634390051
>what, you're a novice trying to become a thief?
>here, go through this pyramid labyrinth filled with hostile bats
>bats crowd around the thief guild entrance because the novices who make it drop them off there
>go to Morroc to ask for help
>eventually a knight chad agrees and escorts multiple novices to the thief guild
The mob placements seemed mean on a surface level, but at the end of the day these things fostered social interaction and that is what many other MMOs including ToS lacked.
>Glastheim Graveyard
>extremely dangerous undead and mimics
>acolytes spend their last job levels here because the exp is so juicy
>giant cross platform in the middle of the map
>acolytes who are out of sp huddle together in the middle because it is relatively unlikely that the mobs find their way up there
>some priests who remember the pain are also there, buffing and join acolyte groups to cast Magnificat, boosting their sp recovery
>every once in a while a mob will spawn inside the pile of acolytes, killing them all
>priests brought extra blue gemstones to ressurect them
>if an acolyte dies somewhere on the map, the 2nd classes organize a rescue mission, kill the mob responsible and ressurect the acolyte
>MvP Dark Lord spawns occasionally
>the high levels fight him while dozens of acolytes sneak around the event, trying to get a peek at the boss without dying to AoE
--- 634394316
I wish I could play another MMO but with the same people from early ToS days.
--- 634394378
>>634338162
I think it went downhill fast when RO just started to copy cat WoW trying to make sequels. It flopped twice, started milking their own servers with p2w items. Closed European servers to avoid legal issues and flooded NA servers with foreign servers to cut costs. Released like a dozen servers that eventually shut down or merge, and released a bunch of mobile game variations rehashing assets and they're still like years behind in updates. Can you imagine any other game company doing that these days? Idk why they get away with that.

Is it that hard for them to just remake RO on a new engine?

>>634330631
>>634331105
Pretty much why I played it but after getting to level 100-120 idr, I felt it was too boring and repetitive and I felt very limited on exploration. Not sure how it is nowadays but it was just mediocre then. Looks nice though and I did like some mechanic things like how healing and other abilities worked.
--- 634394410
>>634394316
See>>634379571
>>634380402
>>634380549
--- 634394457
>>634329895 (OP)
I always found this game pretty charming but never played it because I hate MMOs, specially Korean ones.
Why don't they just repurpose the assets and make a single player game?
--- 634394513
>>634394378
>Closed European servers
It was sad when euRO shut down, but it also resulted in a final kino moment when the germans invaded the french server and took over all WoE castles.
--- 634394764
>>634394513
Currently, Warp Portal does not allow Europeans to play on any of their international servers. Because of EU legislation about user data, they decided it was easy and more profitable for them to ban all Euros rather than abide by the new laws.
Europeans cannot play official RO servers anymore, even if they wanted to. I think that's what he was referring to.
--- 634395119
>>634364235
Kek, those are the same people coming to better MMO threads and being like
>your MMO is shit, it should go f2p
>yes I want to play it but it's shit
>no I'm definitely not a jealous 3rd worlder poorfag
--- 634395195
>>634379571
>discord only 
>no way to even see the population
why can't there be just one good normal server everyone is playing on
--- 634395365
>>634395195
Discord only is the rule these days. You can see player count on the control panel. It's usually between 170~220.
I won't say it's perfect but it's been better than I expected. Bots are banned every other day, a guild full of cheater got banned early on, so the admin is trying at least.
--- 634395523
>>634395195
No server site is retarded, I agree.
You can check the population in the CP, 138 as of this post, which isn't great.
https://www.deviruchiclub.com/fluxcp/?module=server&action=status
The next few weeks will say a lot about the population trend, since Bullies wiped the floor in the first WoE, if no one rises up to challenge them then it really won't look good.
--- 634395571
It started as a comfy oldschool RO like experience, where you interact with people in the field. Visited your favorite out of town cheap ass weapon buff. You went to a dungeon entrance and people would be sitting there, shops and all.
Then they slowely changed it to dailies. Dailies dailies and more dailies. Daily events. You could level to max level without ever so much as to leave the first town, aside from job change I believe. Nobody gave a shit about quests in maps anymore, nobody gave a shit about general community or roleplay. It was just a circlejerk with your guild mates to do the daily quests and log out.
Streamlining games can backfire if you streamline them into a glorified app game.
There even was a ToS app version at some time or at least in development.
--- 634395938
>>634393312
Poor Protag... I miss him, he's not around much anymore.
--- 634396005
>>634329895 (OP)
It came out at the wrong time
--- 634397470
>>634329895 (OP)
it had the best first month being the spiritual successor to RO despite sharing none of its philosophies. It will forever stay top1 most played game in my library. I havent played this game after the initial month but i am sure it's riddled with microtransaction popups, battle pass and booster shops. Maybe that's the fate of every game.
--- 634397903
>>634331882
I know it's not as lucrative, but I want just 1 MMO to have the Monster Hunter upgrade tree system.
No bullshit, you provide the materials you receive the upgrade.
You can make it much more expensive and create larger gaps between tiers so that upgrading always feels like a big accomplishment.
--- 634398463
>>634385584
Good. Fuck plas
--- 634398553
>>634393471
>Completely useless in a party
I don't know if you noticed this one funny thing about RO. It's not meant to be played in one specific way. On top of that I hope you do realize that this retarded minmaxing is what killed MMOs, people like you killed the fun out of games. No it's not fucking useless in a party because a knight or an assassin can out-DPS it.
>there's nowhere good to level
Turtle island if you know how to switch weapons, Moskovia, clock tower, several spots in GH, western Orc Village, probably a few more places I missed.
>Completely worthless past episode 10.
Bullshit, it couldn't solo farm the higher levels of the lab, but it could go on the lower level and the sanctuary, not every class could solo farm on either.

>There's nothing they can do that half of the other jobs can't do better
I reiterate what I said, you are the cancer that killed MMOs. Minmaxing is precisely what caused the death of fun, people like you treat playing games like a job, literally optimizing the fun out of a game. Just because a class is less optimal it doesn't mean it's not viable, furthemore the fact that it required less investment and less upkeep is a strong luxury other builds/classes didn't had.
--- 634398712
>>634336478
That's fine the problem with the mobile ragnarok is the p2w, I don't think any other game in existence is as p2w as that
--- 634398791
>>634394220
Speaking of GH, how did they make those maps look so memorable? It's not like the art direction or the graphics were insane, but the way it was scenery of that destroyed civilization had such a striking design to it.
--- 634399009
>>634353287
amazon bots
--- 634399075
>>634398553
>I don't know if you noticed this one funny thing about RO. It's not meant to be played in one specific way. On top of that I hope you do realize that this retarded minmaxing is what killed MMOs
Your argument is valid, I'm very much a tryhard and a minmaxer. Here's a counter argument:
When I play, I see people going combo monk very often. It's actually a super popular build and it's actually fun.
But a week later I stop seeing those people. Nevermind making it to higher level or reaching trans, they've quit entirely. Because combos stop being fun about 1 or 2 hours in, and you're left with a character whose only redeeming quality is making cool sounds.

If people don't achieve anything on an MMO, if they feel they're not making any progress, they quit. And Combo Monk is exactly this, a noob trap that makes people quit because they can't do anything or achieve anything.

I'm sorry for being a tryhard, and for being the manifestation of your MMO killing boogeyman of your imagination. But I actually play this game in 2023 and I've seen this happen way too many times. I don't have the freedom to think "oh those poor kids don't know what they're doing, let them make awful characters and learn on their own". Every new player is precious and needs to be steered on the right path so they become a part of the server's community. Losing players because nobody bothered telling them that the outdated guide from 2006 they found on google is deceitful is just plain dumb.
--- 634399720
>>634399075
>If people don't achieve anything on an MMO
This is your mental issue right there, MMOs, games in general, aren't meant to be about "achieving" things, they are about enjoying the journey, if you don't enjoy the journey, what's the point? All you're doing is transforming a game into work, and the result is the current state of gaming in general. What people used to criticize the koreans for, optimizing everything, became the norm.

>and for being the manifestation of your MMO killing boogeyman
Tell me a single MMO that hasn't had it's fun sucked out by joy vampires like you. You think yourself superior because the class you picked has slightly higher numbers, in reality you have no idea what's the purpose of a game since all you know is work, like a soulless biological automaton.
> But I actually play this game in 2023
wow almost a decade and half after the game had it's soul sucked out and it's corpse started being paraded around like a puppet by the corporateheads chasing after trends. If you actually liked Ragnarok for the same reason it became popular in the first place, you wouldn't be playing it right now.
>Every new player is precious and needs to be steered on the right path
You are ACTUALLY autistic. You are ACTUALLY the very person that killed MMOs, not joking, like I was before, nor exaggerating.
--- 634400048
>>634399720
You can be angry all you want, I simply have more practical concerns. Like, you know, player retention. And my experience says that people who play shit builds quit very quickly.
--- 634400224
>>634400048
>I simply have more practical concerns
Then go work, go be a wageslave, go do whatever and stop ruining games.
>player retention
It's better to have a small but passionate and dedicated playerbase than millions of soulless drones
--- 634400339
>>634400224
Anon, it never feels good to play an objectively shittier class.

Some leeway can be given, but a class that's just not good is an insult to the player.
--- 634400417
>>634400224
>It's better to have a small but passionate and dedicated playerbase than millions of soulless drones
Dedicated is just another word for tryharding.
And honestly, this is a prime example of "you think you want something but you actually don't". Without large numbers you don't have parties, you don't have an economy, towns are empty, nobody does WoE.
--- 634400501
Why can’t non-Japanese Asians make games that aren’t soulless MMOs or gachashit?
--- 634400645
>>634400339
>it never feels good to play an objectively shittier class.
Then why did challenge runs become so popular? Why are nuzzlockes so popular? Why do people pick weapons and guns that aren't best in slot in single player games? The answer is because it's not about being optimal, it's about picking what you find fun. You MIGHT have had a point if you were talking about a competitive PVP game, but that ain't the case.

>>634400417
>Dedicated is just another word for tryharding
You're conflating things, tryhards are dedicated, sure, but not every dedicated player is a tryhard. Super mario maker has a dedicated fanbase, some maps are highly technical and tryhard, but many others are just troll levels made for comedy, which are still made by and for dedicated players, but definitely aren't tryhard.
--- 634400927
>>634400645
Carebears like you are the reason MMOs are dead. MMO games are competitive in every sense of the world. You're constantly competing for resources, monster spawns, boss kills and everything else. The whole purpose of an MMO game is to put players together to create cooperation and conflict.
One thing RO did right, and almost no other game was able to replicate, is how they made WoE integrated into the game. Most MMOs treat PvP modes as arena minigames but in RO, it's an essential part of the game.

Let me guess, you're the kind of person who thinks "MMO PvP is garbage" and that "PvP players should go play a dedicated pvp game"?
Please confirm so I can proceed to ignore your opinions completely.
--- 634401262
>>634400645
Sure, some people enjoy challenging themselves but there's a difference between a sleek challenge of a single player game compared to the more monotonous nature of MMOs. 

As a counterpoint, being just bad doesn't make something fun. A player might pick up a game thinking they'd like to play a wizard, for example, yet then they play it and find out that it's absolute trash and as such feels like a slog to play. How can you justify that?
--- 634401267
>autist talks about how good mmo pvp is
>it's always some sperg that likes to sit overleveled while ganking n00bs in earlygame areas and complaining whenever someone actually fights them on an even playing field
opinion discarded
--- 634401456
>>634331882
K*reans are a cancer on gaming.
Even Chinks are not this obsessed with grind and microtransactions.
--- 634401490
>>634329895 (OP)
Good concept, jewish (retarded and Evil) execution.
--- 634401639
>>634391221
>that some items never drop cause the counters are seemingly reset on maintenance
That's my real complaint with DPK. I mean besides the system being completely fucked without IMC acknowledging it. Being able to relog reset the Oracle's item reroll cooldown made this doable but it was fucked that you'd have to sacrifice a decently high level cleric build for it.
--- 634401714
>>634400927
Runescape/Eve systems are best i think.
Early/midgame areas are safe, but the best stuff is unsafe areas-only.
Unsafe everywhere is cancer, safe everywhere is braindead.
--- 634401828
>>634385727
Koreans all share an insectoid slave mentality. This is a country that was ruled by a crazy feminist cult for decades and banned porn. It's also not a coincidence their media is filled with cuckshit.
--- 634401845
>>634329895 (OP)
Because like most MMOs, especially koreashit, it assumes that new players already know hundreds of thousands of 'MMO features' and spend thousands of hours reading forums and pre-release content.

The reality is that most of your potential playerbase is either new or casual players, and if your game's starting with a giant fucking infodump just to understand what the fuck you're supposed to be doing, you're going to lose players.

Tree of Savior's steam achievements less than 5% of players ever played long enough to reach an advanced class, thats only 2-4 hours of playing max.

Every modern MMO has this problem, they're trying to resell the same dogshit people have been playing for decades already to the same players, they'll never satisfy those players who just want to play the old thing, and they won't attract new players because they make a shit ton of anti-newbro mistakes that MMO devs assume is just "how MMOs are"

Black Desert, Wildstar, Archage, and Tree of Savior, it all has the same issue, generic linear questing with 500 word essays on 'mechanics' being shoved into your face constantly, like im sorry if NPCs need to give me an exposition dump on how the game works, its shit.

You know why WOW was popular? Because you logged in and killed wolves or boars with your friends, leveled up, got a new ability, and just kept going.

Tree of Savior seems to be made by 15+ year RO fans/devs who had a shit ton of quirky ideas that fit their vision for the game, but ends up being the most unfun newbro experience possible means that you'll never develop a playerbase, simply put, stop trying to make grindshit complicated with systems upon systems upon systems of things that no one will understand even after 500 hours of playing, just give us simple goals to achieve and a grind to achieve them, and balance the game around playing with friends being the norm, and solo being a challenge, thats the secret to making a good MMO.
--- 634401902
>>634331105
this, but is there any modern mmos that arent on rails quest leveling
--- 634401913
>>634400927
>Carebears like you are the reason MMOs are dead
So you couldn't come up with a proper insult and decided to just resort to a "no u".
>The whole purpose of an MMO game is to put players together to create cooperation and conflict.
It's funny how you cite "cooperate" while completely ignoring that aspect in your previous sentences. An MMO having competitive aspects isn't equal to MMOs being inherently competitive.
>but in RO, it's an essential part of the game
Most guilds didn't engage with it at all.
>Let me guess, you're the kind of person who thinks "MMO PvP is garbage"
Depends on the game, but I know this much, no PVP based MMO survives because it inherently drives away players. Games like ragnarok that had a healthy balance definitely did had good pvp scenes, and I think gravity didn't give it, like many other aspects, the necessary support it deserved.
>>634401262
>but there's a difference between a sleek challenge of a single player game compared to the more monotonous nature of MMOs.
Grinding shouldn't be monotonous though, it certainly wasn't in RO if you didn't pick an optimal class.
>How can you justify that?
I don't, classes/builds should always have something they excel at. Like I mentioned combo monks had a pretty low upkeep/investment cost and were good for solo farming, so they were great as your initial character. The issue with rpgs in general and builds is that each build is like a tool, which SHOULD fit a niche, but often what you see is that some builds just don't fit any niche at all, so there's no point when playing them that you actually feel fulfilled. It's like making a saw build when every single job is hitting nails and then being surprised that hammer builds are the only viable choice, and then when balancing the saws you end up with a malformed hammer. The issue isn't the tool, the issue is the lack of planks to cut.

RO was much better than other games in this regard, but it wasn't perfect.
--- 634401926
>>634401714
I consider EVE to be the absolute most peak MMO game design. The problem is that it's attached to a game that's outright not fun to play at all.
If we could have PK Mode RO servers with security ratings like in EVE, that would be ideal.
--- 634401997
>>634401926
I am still waiting for the basic core concepts of EVE to be put into a game that isn't EVE.

The closest I can think of is haven and hearth but thats also super scuffed, but on the right track.
--- 634401998
>>634401926
EVE would be a masterpiece if it wasn't a spreadsheet simulator.
--- 634402019
>>634330162
>german
of course I am gonna write something, man I loved flyff and we got to lvl 100 in a month by stupidly grinding 10 hours a day without spending money. then we just stopped and were done.
--- 634402164
>>634401639
DPK was nightmare mode for any grinder. Once the community figured how it works there were people attempting to snipe item drops of high demand stuff. It was always fishy to have another person on the same instance when there were plenty of empty ones available.
--- 634402165
>>634401926
I don't think we'll ever get an MMO like EVE, at least for a long time.

Hell, I have actually no idea what's going on with MMOs, is there something coming up? Are people looking forward to a title? I remember when there used to be new titles coming out many times a year, ranging from the usual WoW clone shit to more 'performative' titles, but now it feels like there's only buzz about new expansions to old games.
--- 634402186
>>634401926
>I consider payless job spreadsheet simulator to be the absolute most peak MMO design
--- 634402302
I swore off MMOs after maplestory. All the whales still invested in this dogshit genre are subhumans.
--- 634402340
>>634400224
>It's better to have a small but passionate and dedicated playerbase than millions of soulless drones

yea but business doesnt work that way so thats not what games are gonna go for
--- 634402365
>>634402186
He's right, the problem is that the gameplay itself is not good.

Under a more capable gameplay system, I can see it shine.
--- 634402517
>>634402186
Those are the bad parts of EVE that nobody likes. I meant the actual systems themselves, not the gameplay. The gameplay is dogshit.

>>634402165
There's a reason why we call the current period the Dark Ages of MMOs. There has not been anything coming out since Tree of Savior, MapleStory2, Blade and Soul, Black Desert and ArchAge all flopped in quick succession.
Actually that's not completely true, we had Bless trying to sell itself as new(made people buy 200 USD packs and then went F2P in less than 6 months), then we had PSO2 getting replaced for NGS(same game but they will sell you the same cosmetics again, also you start from scratch) and New World(was going to be dark souls MMO but then got changed into generic MMO combat shortly before launch).
You get the idea. Blue Protocol is the first actually new MMO people have had to look forward to in almost 8 years.
--- 634402523
>>634401926
You're just retarded, pvp mmos don't survive. No one likes being ganked by high level payers for hours on end when you just started playing. The penalties for dying can never be properly balanced, you either have "mild annoyance" or "not worth trying". Furthermore even if lower level areas are protected, as power consolidates, there just isn't enough space for new players to consolidate themselves on higher level areas, which means that there just isn't enough space to grow, you know just like in real life. The result of this is the same result EVE has, a stagnating population of old time players that cannot grow and slowly dies off.
--- 634402552
>>634388645
ofc not
>>634368620
no but yes
--- 634402562
>>634402164
I never attempted the boater grind but getting your drop effectively stolen was a huge fear. And it killed my desire to grind the running shot? gem drop for my archer.
--- 634402590
>>634402340
Which is why the majority of new MMO companies just make gachas and disguised gachas.
--- 634402603
>>634402523
You misunderstood my meaning. The idea of a "PvP MMO" is indeed flawed, that much is true. But having MMOs without any sort of direct player combat is also equally as flawed.
The most long lasting MMOs have always had the two integrated and intertwined.
--- 634402749
>>634402603
This is because player driven content is the ultimate end game of any MMO.

Killing the same dragon on repeat has no fucking point if the big badass 5% drop rate sword it has can't be used in PVP.

And PVE fags who don't think this, parsing leaderboards are a form of PVP, even if its gay as fuck and no one actually gives a fuck
--- 634402875
>>634402749
Yes, you understand perfectly.
>PvE leaderboards are worthless
>PvP arena minigames are worthless, if they have any sort of rewards it becomes cancer because of win trading
>no PvP at all is a mistake because conflict is the spice that makes MMOs good
--- 634402951
>>634402603
>But having MMOs without any sort of direct player combat is also equally as flawed.
Maplestory was one of the most successfull and popular games of all time. It had little to no competition. Runescape had little to no competition. Ragnarok, on it's golden days, had little to no competition for most people (as one could see with pvp servers being empty, arenas being empty, and the single reason why WoEs were popular was due to the castle dungeons. And even still, most people never engaged with it).
--- 634403006
>>634402951
>runescape had little-no competition
Runescape fucking nearly fucking died when they removed trade and wilderness
--- 634403204
>>634338162
i wish i could have every hour back i've wasted on fucking ragnarok online.