Mon May 1 09:18:31 UTC 2023

lit/21936988.txt

@@ -613,3 +613,31 @@ Why does the smooth breathing even exist? Wouldn't the fact that there's no roug
 --- 21973013
 >>21936988 (OP)
 how worthy is it to learn Attic Greek as opposed to German?
+--- 21973328
+>>21972996
+Why do apostrophes exist
+--- 21973331
+>>21973013
+that is entirely up to you. 
+If you want to speak German and talk with German speakers, learn German
+If you want to read ancient Greeks in their original language, learn Greek
+--- 21974275
+Bump
+--- 21975674
+>>21972996
+apparently there are some who think the so called smooth breathing was actually something else than just the absence of aspiration, your question is reasonable, after all Greeks themselves for the longest time didn't need the whole diacritic system
+--- 21975963
+Why did Jerome translate in such a way as to make the Latin not idiomatic? He translates word for word almost like an interlinear. instead of "Blasphemat" he wrote "Hic blasphemat."
+
+Why the hic if it's encoded already in the verb? I can see the pronoun is in the original Greek but it isn't required in Latin yet he does this shit all over the place. Also it seems like a big mix of ille, iste, hic, etc. without reasons for using different pronouns.
+--- 21975975
+>>21975963
+I mean, I don't want him to have translated into a style like Cicero, but just make it more like smooth Latin and not interlinear-ly
+--- 21976052
+>>21975963
+think that was to some degree the intention, these people often believed in the importance of the form itself of the text not just the apparent meaning, hence the choice of a highly artificial, almost dialect of its own Latin
+in your example though I think it's a case where it is a good and necessary demonstrative given the context, since it means "this guy right here"
+--- 21976470
+>>21975963
+Latin pronoun use is more complicated than 'don't need it'. It depends on emphasis, comparison, contrast, rhetoric and so on.
+As >>21976052 points out it is entirely correct. You might as well ask why the Greek has houtos

lit/21957087.txt

@@ -521,3 +521,160 @@ bump
 --- 21972901
 >21957087
 Attempting to create a unified theory of science by system is doomed to fail the same reason Hegel's dialectical process doesn't ultimately reach absolute metaphysical knowledge. Because human reason is limited in that it can only discern abstract causality by way of relation to sensible reality, and therefore can't reach universal abstraction because it can't touch universal causalities that aren't corporeally manifested into reality. Not only this, but a huge limit of reason is that it reduces causal abstractions to external static concepts with no unified theory of relation to other abstractions. Meaning that it can never truly grasp the essence of nature of the causal, because it only knows it by relation.
+--- 21973271
+>>21959722
+>mathematically formalized non-dual infinite absolutism
+im thinking langan is based and guenon-pilled
+--- 21973290
+>>21968748
+>it's just that you have zero coherent argument
+There's no need for an argument beyond what I've provided, which is merely an explanation of how things are using logical propositions and modalities. The burden of proof is always on the person who posits. Newton's laws, and the other example you gave, do not have proofs for their universal validity. In fact, they are foreseeably false because they are contingent and not necessarily true. Both are merely hypotheses and do not possess a truth value in a 3VL logical system.
+--- 21973824
+>>21972901
+you didn't explain what was wrong with the CTMU
+--- 21973878
+>>21957440
+Mathematics is literally a formal science you moron
+--- 21973883
+>>21973878
+>reading comprehension
+--- 21973890
+>>21973883
+The implication is that you could rightfully call misapplications of math pseudoscientific. I've dealt with Langan retards on /lit/ years ago, the entire thing is just built on very subtle logical fallacies, it's snake oil.
+--- 21973899
+>>21973890
+No. The implication is that maths is not a science, in that it has no predictive power.
+--- 21973910
+>>21973890
+>the entire thing is just built on very subtle logical fallacies
+Point them out right fucking now
+--- 21973926
+>>21973899
+It literally does have predictive power, if a mathematical theorem didn't have predictive power it would be...wrong. What you're meaning to say is that math isn't empirical, which is correct and why it's considered a formal science and not a natural science. 
+
+>>21973910
+As far as I can see nobody has actually posted any excerpts from his actual theory in this thread?
+--- 21973969
+>>21973926
+YOU SAID THE WHOLE THING IS BUILT ON LOGICAL FALLACIES. WHAT THE FUCK DOES THE PAPER BEING BASED ON LOGICAL FALLACIES HAVE TO DO WITH "excerpts from his actual theory in this thread"? POINT OUT THE FUCKING FALLACIES DUMBASS NIGGER. THE CTMU IS A PAPER, NOT A COLLECTION OF 4CHAN POSTS. POINT. OUT. THE. FUCKING. FALLACIES. BITCH. I DARE YOU YOU FUCKING NIGGER
+--- 21974001
+>>21973969
+>why won't you point out the fallacies in a paper I refuse to even talk about or post
+--- 21974007
+Holy shit how is this thread about this shitty scam still alive
+--- 21974019
+>>21973926
+>It literally does have predictive power
+What does a mathematical theorem predict? What predictions can I make that are based upon a mathematical theorem that has introduced no extraneous data from, say, physics? You're confusing proofs with predictions.
+>why it's considered a formal science
+Maths is not unilaterally considered a science.
+--- 21974029
+>>21974001
+DON'T FUCKING SAY IT'S BASED ON LOGICAL FALLACIES WHEN YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE PAPER THEN BITCH.
+--- 21974072
+>>21974007
+Kek, it's been worth it. One anon laid out how Langan operates like a confidence trick through social engineering and Langanfags went into bot-mode proving his point for him. Now another anon has reduced them to unironically writing in ALL CAPS by pointing out they didn't know the difference between formal and empirical science.
+--- 21974096
+>>21973890
+>literally says "the entire thing is just built on very subtle logical fallacies"
+>>21974001
+>same poster indirectly admits he has not even seen the paper
+
+This is the actual, literal power of CTMU critics.
+--- 21974105
+>>21974096
+NTA but it's clear Langan is a conman so not wasting one's time reading his bullshit is a perfectly defensible position to take.
+--- 21974141
+>>21974105
+He won't post any excerpts because any excerpt you could take from his paper has problems in it.
+--- 21974145
+>>21974029
+Say there's this guy named Piss Fagman who is known for pissing in people's drinks. He offers you a cup of lukewarm liquid:
+>No thanks, Piss.
+>WHY WON'T YOU TAKE A DRINK?!
+>You're Piss Fagman, you piss in people's drinks.
+>AD HOM!
+>It's a pattern of behavior, Piss. No thank you.
+>IF YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TASTED THE DRINK HOW DO YOU KNOW THERE'S PISS IN IT?!
+>No.
+>YOU'RE JUST TOO STUPID TOO UNDERSTAND!
+>Enjoy your beverage.
+--- 21974169
+>>21974141
+See >>21974145. Fuck off, Piss. Everyone here knows you're a retard. Congratulations on getting a moron like Malcolm Gladwell to use you as filler in one of his hot takes for midwits books.
+--- 21974240
+>>21974169
+What you're describing here is Langan's paper. Everyone knows it's a glass full of piss, that's why nobody is going out of their way to look for it. And you refuse to bring Langan's glass of piss into this thread because as soon as you do, everyone can just point to it and say "see look we told you it's just piss, retard".
+--- 21974300
+>>21974240
+FYI: Something con men do is fall silent when someone is getting too close to describing their behavior. It somehow works to lower the heat and let the situation flow by until they can pick back up again. If you ever see one of them do it in person and are able to pick up on it at the time it's really impressive and it's amazing that it actually works.
+--- 21974326
+>>21969757
+>An example would be emphasizing the notion that his primary learned detractors comprise a closed-shop when it comes to intellectual ideas, thusly it's their motivation to stop him and not that his ideas are bunk. If you pay attention to this closely you notice that it doesn't actually defend his ideas in any specific way and simply resituates his own behavior and that of his group onto those who are qualified to call him out.
+>>21972477
+>pic-related 
+Is an example of what was described. He even compares it to a "trade union" while that post predicted he'd use the idea of "closed shop."
+--- 21974654
+>>21974568
+You want to fuck around with creating memes, Chris?
+--- 21974685
+>>21974568
+--- 21974714
+>>21968563
+>anything falsifiable is thereby also false in some possible worlds
+that's not true lmfao you fucking retard
+how about learn some actual modal logic first
+
+all fields btw
+--- 21974724
+>>21961587
+>logic
+>having anything to do with perception
+apparently it is you who has not heard of logic lmoa
+--- 21974735
+>>21961754
+>It ultimately demonstrates that all things are interconnected
+hahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
+
+there must be something like Godwin's Law for cranks and "everything is connected"
+maybe "Retarded Faggot's Law"?
+--- 21974743
+>>21963209
+>morphism is not general enough [...]
+>[...] because it does not tell you what kind of morphism you are allowed to posit
+so morphisms aren't general enough because they aren't restrictive enough?
+
+jesus christ man seek a psychiatrist
+--- 21974753
+>>21967190
+>But since no morphism of any sort places this type of restriction on itself or on the objects to which it refers
+How do you know? Minus 10 points, please see me after class.
+
+(i am implying you would fail my introductory discrete math course for remedial first-year undergraduate retards, in case it wasn't clear)
+--- 21974758
+>>21974568
+--- 21975127
+>>21974300
+How long do you think Chris will wait until he comes back? Or will he take the L on this thread to let it die so he can start fresh in another one?
+--- 21975240
+>>21975127
+He should just let go this insistence on proving his genius and superiority to all mainstream academia. Very weird that one can grow old and harbor such enormous resentment. Thousands of people around the world grow up and realize they haven't made much of their gifts, and settle down to a normal life. It's the most common story ever. 
+Chris seems to have a good thing going with his wife and his ranch. Why embarrass himself by shilling this "theory" that can be picked apart by any undergrad? Then again he also insists on making a fool of himself with literal /pol/-takes of the most retarded kind, so it all seems like a failure to outgrow a particular type of adolescent psychology...
+--- 21975361
+>>21975240
+I think it's fairly obvious he's narcissistic and such precludes him from just going away. He simply can't live without attention and insists everyong acknowledge his supposed genius when the fact is he operates like a confidence trick.
+--- 21975795
+>>21975240
+>can be picked apart by any undergrad
+we're waiting, pick it apart
+--- 21975874
+>>21975795
+Go drink your own piss, Chris. We told you we aren't interested in your bullshit and the social engineering conman stuff you don't want to talk about is far more interesting than your pseudery no matter how much jargon you attempt to fluff it up with and hide behind.
+--- 21976973
+>>21975874
+> jargon you attempt to fluff it up with
+You still have not pointed out which words or which statements in the CTMU are undefined or unintelligible. (If you claim you did, you're welcome to go ahead and quote the post.) This is because as soon as you attempted to do so, you would be corrected immediately. Instead, you opt to go the safe route, casually dropping the word "jargon" without ever pointing to which words actually constitute jargon.
+--- 21977328
+>>21976973
+Way back itt you or some other shill were asked to define syndiffeonic relation *precisely* to which the response was the most obvious clueless babbling, with a lot of """quotation marks""", handwaving and esotericism. 
+Overall it's a clear case of "not even wrong". Imagine thinking that statements like "reality is all that exists, and nothing besides that" or "different things are actually the same because they have being-a-thing in common" constitute theoretical insights. It's not even on the level of babby's first foray into philosophy, it's really a caricature of sophistry.

lit/21961792.txt

@@ -333,3 +333,26 @@ Definitely just dive in. Just go through it slowly and refer to the Terrell comp
 Ovid's Metamorphoses is a ten-thousand line poem largely about people changing form. Its possible the Acoetes episode was just the most poetically potent but given his stated interest in living men entering the underworld the inclusion of Dionysus may be more significant.
 --- 21972499
 Bump
+--- 21973595
+>>21961792 (OP)
+Well, did you read em?
+--- 21973596
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCyihQ7Ynr4 [Embed] 11mins into this Ezra Pound states a man need only read six books and lists the authors as:
+
+Benton
+Delamar
+Agassi
+Confucius 
+Yozard
+
+Can anyone help me identify the works he was referring to?
+--- 21973609
+>>21961804
+Probably because his emphasis is on the tradition and his sensibility was always more Renaissance-Latinate than Greek.
+--- 21973901
+>>21962121
+>Cadence
+Literally every poet on earth uses cadence, Milton and Blake especially (they have sound that Pound and Eliot called great). I'm not even sure what you mean here other than to say that since his verse isn't metrical he relies on other aspects of language to keep the verse interesting or musical (which he does) but "cadence" isn't the correct descriptor--all poets have a specific cadence to them, and you might as well say all of free verse is based around that then.
+--- 21975830
+>>21973596
+Louis Agassiz, Thomas Hart Benton and Alexander Del Mar

lit/21961916.txt

@@ -623,3 +623,134 @@ I saw this Chink on another thread bashing Fitzgerald lol.
 --- 21973020
 >>21969422
 Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series has some of the funniest moments of comedy in anything I've seen. It's almost a shame that it would be referenced in something like this.
+--- 21973121
+>>21972571
+Oh. 
+
+
+With that, everyone makes mistakes anon
+--- 21973125
+>>21972450
+After hanging out in 4chan, I realized that guy is a big jewish idiot
+
+He didn't think before he speak, maybe if he doesn't try to impress people with speaking too fast and incoherently maybe he'll actually have sound arguments.
+
+He's a celebrity, that's why people listen to him
+--- 21973128
+>>21972590
+How do you know he's Asian... or even the same person?
+--- 21973186
+ready player one
+
+i tried to force myself but just couldn't
+--- 21973941
+>>21973128
+I know who it is because he goes out of his way ono every thread to shit talk Fitzgerald for zero reason. I've seen him on a few threads here and yes, because he often circlejerks Chinese literature and philosophers, we call him a chink.
+--- 21974219
+>>21962186
+This reads like the short stories I wrote when I was 12, what publisher approved of this?
+--- 21974259
+>>21961916 (OP)
+"I wiped the blade against my jeans and walked into the bar. It was mid-afternoon, very hot and still. The bar was deserted. I ordered a whiskey. The barman looked at the blood and asked:
+
+‘God?’
+
+‘Yeah.’
+
+‘S’pose it’s time someone finished that hypocritical little punk, always bragging about his old man’s power…’
+
+He smiled crookedly, insinuatingly, a slight nausea shuddered through me. I replied weakly:
+
+‘It was kind of sick, he didn’t fight back or anything, just kept trying to touch me and shit, like one of those dogs that try to fuck your leg. Something in me snapped, the whingeing had ground me down too low. I really hated that sanctimonious little creep.’
+
+‘So you snuffed him?’
+
+‘Yeah, I’ve killed him, knifed the life out of him, once I started I got frenzied, it was an ecstasy, I never knew I could hate so much.’
+
+I felt very calm, slightly light-headed. The whisky tasted good, vaporizing in my throat. We were silent for a few moments. The barman looked at me levelly, the edge of his eyes twitching slightly with anxiety:
+
+There’ll be trouble though, don’tcha think?’
+
+‘I don’t give a shit, the threats are all used up, I just don’t give a shit.’
+
+‘You know what they say about his old man? Ruthless bastard they say. Cruel…’
+
+‘I just hope I’ve hurt him, if he even exists.’
+
+‘Woulden wanna cross him merself,’ he muttered.
+
+I wanted to say ‘yeah, well that’s where we differ’, but the energy for it wasn’t there. The fan rotated languidly, casting spidery shadows across the room. We sat in silence a little longer. The barman broke first:
+
+‘So God’s dead?’
+
+‘If that’s who he was. That fucking kid lied all the time. I just hope it’s true this time.’
+
+The barman worked at one of his teeth with his tongue, uneasily:
+
+‘It’s kindova big crime though, isn’t it? You know how it is, when one of the cops goes down and everything’s dropped ’til they find the guy who did it. I mean, you’re not just breaking a law, your breaking LAW.’
+
+I scraped my finger along my jeans, and suspended it over the bar, so that a thick clot of blood fell down into my whisky, and dissolved. I smiled:
+
+‘Maybe it’s a big crime,’ I mused vaguely ‘but maybe it’s nothing at all…’ ‘…and we have killed him’ writes Nietzsche, but—destituted of community—I crave a little time with him on my own.
+
+In perfect communion I lick the dagger foamed with God’s blood."
+
+- Nick Land
+--- 21974281
+>>21962186
+I don't get it. What's so bad about this besides some weird punctuation?
+--- 21974289
+>>21962186
+>Laughter, soon came forth.
+--- 21974327
+the fellowship of the ring
+--- 21975166
+>>21961916 (OP)
+House on Mango Street, for school. 
+Shitty book by a retarded author whose only sales are to schools who make the students read this fucking garbage. I don't give a flying fuck if the author is some sexually abused latina, I use her books for toilet paper.
+Now ask me how I really feel.
+--- 21975187
+>>21961916 (OP)
+Taipei
+--- 21975379
+>>21970109
+I hate how millenial/zoomer fags think that gamers are supposed to support them or something. "Fag" has been the #1 derogatory in gaming since voip was introduced.
+>ItS tOxIc
+Coddled single-child bubble babies.
+--- 21975519
+>>21975379
+Zoomers are such pussies. They would have a heart attack if they heard how people talked on Xbox Live in 2006.
+--- 21975526
+>>21961916 (OP)
+Empress Theresa is pretty much the king of this. Worst book I've ever heard of.
+--- 21975565
+>>21961916 (OP)
+Probably one of Onision's books
+--- 21976215
+>>21975166
+>Now ask me how I really feel.
+ok, now how do you really feel?
+--- 21976276
+>>21961916 (OP)
+Harry Potter. The first one. I dropped it as a 16 year old when it came out. A friend of mine insisted that I have to read it. Horrible. Didn't finish it and gave it back to her.
+--- 21976663
+>>21961916 (OP)
+some unutterably awful trash "horror erotica" called Painfreak
+--- 21976668
+>>21972507
+this wasn't the worst thing I have ever read but it's pretty bad. I made it up to the "schoolgirl rape as spiritual necessity" part and just...stopped. I used to think Murakami was pretty decent but this book changed my opinion
+--- 21976682
+>>21972464
+I don't get it. What is this about?
+--- 21976729
+>>21969422
+>>21969434
+You know, I read the absolute bottom of the barrel slop translated asian novels, and the worse they are the more they piggyback off of popular things, but in all my years I haven't seen shit so long and repulsive, at most you would get a line or two, made into a joke while going hint hint nudge nudge, but this is something else.
+--- 21977015
+Has anyone said everything by Hemingway yet? My god it was like chewing gravel.
+--- 21977114
+>>21961916 (OP)
+Don't you guys Just LOVE hearing the sound of experience itself? 
+
+>But that’s it. It is that music. Or was it the person playing you “heard”? Was that the feeling? Heard but not seen! A sound of Experience itself. Weigh it, store it; luckily in your “life” you can be dumb about it. Her privacy inseparable from the noise of the instrument: piano or violin; some days both. The musician’s secure devotion. Practice, yet not to make perfect. Scale-like up-and-down workouts on violin that were more like real music when the in-between notes got crazily played. Early experience of somebody else’s, yes, thought earned. Or could it have been some teenage, fairly early experience for you of pausing: pausing to Look Back! But why back, when what you were hearing was your mother’s concentration right now? But where was it going?
+>This was you going too. Does that just mean “growing”? Or that you doubled her going? Who could you report such claptrap to? Is it monstrous that to this day you have not thought much about her going? Fact was, she went, dead or alive.

lit/21962659.txt

@@ -322,3 +322,64 @@ Now I look into it, reread it, and find things that are tedious and excessive (i
 tl;dr read William Gaddis' The Recognitions
 --- 21972561
 Slaughterhouse five was that one for me. like a foil for my take on the world when I was young. thought vonnegut was a genius at 16. figured he was just a libtard boomer at 20. now kinda see he was a libtard boomer but channeled something spiritual on accident one time with that book. still one of the only books that makes me laugh out loud
+--- 21973631
+>>21962659 (OP)
+This is the one that finally convinced me of the value of life as an aesthetic experience and the importance of sharing it with other people. 
+>Faced with beauty, solitude becomes a burden.
+Was the quote that totally flipped my perception human interaction. I used to think of them as a burden, as a means to take what I needed from them.
+--- 21974117
+>>21963058
+>and yh
+>peaked my interest
+>calling u
+>tho
+When did it become acceptable to type such low quality posts? For fuck's sake, I hate the state of this board.
+--- 21974234
+>>21962659 (OP)
+The Quest for Hermes Trismegistus by Gary Lachmann
+The Corpus Hermeticum and Asclepius
+The Enneads by Plotinus
+--- 21975063
+>>21962659 (OP)
+Besides what this anon said >>21974234 personally Ecclesiastes basically people have always been knowing that life is shit, that you suffer and that bad things are there permanently and they will be like so until you do something about it.
+Well Solomon in the book is a bit more depressed than that, but you get the idea.
+--- 21975190
+>>21962659 (OP)
+-Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland - The people who committed the holocaust, the actual crimes, like shooting tens of thousands of women, children, elderly ... were just (as the book titles says) ordinary men. Average Joe's, with average jobs and life's. They weren't specially selected for the job. Just a random battalion that was told to do it. Their superior gave them the possibility of not taking part in the killings. Only a dozen out of 500 stepped forward. A book I read shortly after this one, Becoming Evil: How Ordinary People Commit Genocide and Mass Killing, was a psychology book that deals with this topic and argues, convincingly, that instead of trying to find a type of person that commits mass killings, or orders them (he deals with the psychology of the top nazis as well) we should try to understand the conditions under which anyone could commit what these man did.
+--- 21976685
+Just finished Turner Diaries
+--- 21976802
+>>21962659 (OP)
+Unironically study NDEs and realize that there actually is an afterlife and that we are eternal and will go to heaven unconditionally when we die. And while the Bible and the Qu'ran convinces few people who do not already believe, the book in pic related is known to convince even hardened skeptics that there is an afterlife. So it will change your worldview and make you realize paradise literally awaits.
+
+Here is a very persuasive argument for why NDEs are real:
+
+https://youtu.be/U00ibBGZp7o [Embed]
+
+It emphasizes that NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:
+
+https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist 
+
+>"Among those with the deepest experiences 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."
+
+Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. When you dream and wake up, you instantly realize that life is more real than your dreams. When you have an NDE, the same thing is happening, but on a higher level, as you immediately realize that life is the deep dream and the NDE world is the undeniably real world by comparison.
+
+Or as one person quoted in pic related summarized their NDE:
+
+>"As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved."
+
+Needless to say, even ultraskeptical neuroscientists are convinced by really deep NDEs.
+--- 21976828
+>>21976802
+argument form popularity
+--- 21976867
+>>21962659 (OP)
+A few
+
+B.F. Skinner - Beyond Freedom & Dignity
+
+Max Weber - Economy And Society 
+
+And from my childhood:
+
+Rush Limbaugh - The Way Things Oughta Be

lit/21963815.txt

@@ -355,3 +355,267 @@ Very well put, anon
 --- 21973017
 >>21972864
 nicest person you will ever meet
+--- 21973770
+>>21972068
+Indeed
+--- 21973801
+Picrel is written by the former immigration minister of Israel. She doesn't think that nationalism is inherently good, but does recognize that it has many advantages
+--- 21973804
+>>21973801
+--- 21973942
+>>21966367
+Is a world where each man can pick the nation most beneficial to him a good thing? All the corporations in tax havens, all the manufacturing with child slaves, the entire nation instantly becoming refugees in times of war, and so on. I know I don't want that kind of rootlessness for myself either.
+--- 21973955
+>>21963815 (OP)
+Nationalism is yet another false god of the enlightenment and modernity. 
+Seek Christ or burn in eternal Hellfire. Your choice. You must stop falling for these ideological phantasms and materialist worldly distractions. We have come to baptize the heathen savages into the Faith that has built our civilization. You will repent and beg for forgiveness for your sins. You will be cleansed and submit to the Holy Truth. There is no nation but the nation under God's leadership.
+--- 21973975
+>>21972342
+What if my country does not and has not exploited the third world and our immigrants are opportunists from countries with no ties or relation to us?
+--- 21973984
+>>21966746
+Using soft and hard power to unite a similarly oppressed people against a single foreign entity like Ho Chih Min did is on a different level compared to supremacist maniacs. 
+
+A lot of Chinese-Viets got targeted in his reforms post-war and is why a lot of them fled across the world but still.
+--- 21974008
+>>21971986
+>belonging will cause the society to inevitably descend into a chaotic fragmented state of war, tribalism, and conflict over resources among different groups.
+
+This doesn't apply for people who can have their groupishness desires met by other outlets such as friends, family, local community etc., which is the case for many people in developed countries. Yes they can have a 'national identity', but the degree to which they hold this up compared to other identities is very low. 
+
+Reminds me of a hilarious study that found during the African Cup when a country qualiified, its citizens all began heavily identifying with their national identity a whole lot more, but then when they didn't quality, their feelings towards it stayed the same (i.e ethnic group comes first).
+--- 21974091
+>>21973955
+Yes, very good larp. Now please point to that nation on a map. Now, realize that no such nation can be created anymore because global ideology, policy and identity are for natural reasons being made more and more homogenous and static and your values are in stark contrast to our current ones. Understand that that is because of the very ideas you are peddling. Know that this is your fault - you have yourselves murdered any potential for a holy nation.
+--- 21974111
+>>21974008
+>This doesn't apply for people who can have their groupishness desires met by other outlets such as friends, family, local community etc., which is the case for many people in developed countries.
+Yes, and this lower level of identity and solidarity is what held formerly self-consciously national states together for a little while after WW2 when nationalism became verboten because the CIA was afraid it would create unruly "rogue states" seeking foreign policy autonomy and thus possible strategic alliances with the USSR. 
+
+We can see the empirical results of this in the steady downward trend in social cohesion, moral character, quality of life, etc., since this happened. It turns out that, between the two extremes of radically atomistic individuals and radically self-conscious national identity, the intermediate identities of region, community, friends, family, etc. are NOT ENOUGH to "hold" society in this intermediate zone once one end of the scale (the national or volkisch principle) is removed. Remove one end of the scale, and society slides or melts into the other extreme. We are witnessing the end result of this, but it was inevitable as soon as the national principle was removed. Lots of people not only saw this and wrote about it, they pointed out how very important "liberals" like the Founding Fathers of America also took it to be self-evident. 
+
+It may take a while for society to deliquesce into hedonistic individualistic goop dominated by financial forces and the manufacture of consent. And you may have a surprisingly pleasant period where everybody just kind of goes to work, goes home, has barbecues and watches TV. Hegel called these periods the "blank pages of history," and no doubt they exist. But they exist at the EXPENSE of the more energetic activity of the previous period. 
+
+All that boomer prosperity people are really unconsciously imagining when they think "why can't we go back to, say, the 1970s, when things just worked? I just want to go to work and come home again, but with a reasonable standard of living!!," they are are not showing their work. They should be saying: "I want to live in a world created by generations who took it for granted that this nation had to be continually served, maintained, and improved, through genuine personal sacrifice, but I don't want to make such sacrifices myself." 
+
+Nationalism doesn't need to annihilate individualism. That would just be removing one side of the scale again. Liberalism only worked, the European concept of the dignity and autonomy of the individual in his private life only originated in the first place, because BOTH ends of the spectrum were maintained: nation and person, state and citizen, polis and politeis. Starship Troopers gets it right: 
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSg6eOmgvW8 [Embed]
+Only people willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for their fatherland in times of war deserve to enjoy its fruits in times of peace. "Individuals" are resident aliens, not citizens.
+--- 21974167
+>>21972342
+>using colonization as an excuse for white genocide
+Why do you leftists want to kill white people so badly? Seriously.
+--- 21974179
+>>21971997
+>White nationalism is Le bad because wypipo bad!!
+Go back to Twitter, you communist cocksucker.
+--- 21974203
+>>21974167
+Ever read Camp of the Saints? You'd find it enlightening.
+--- 21974293
+>>21972028
+ayy fax 1000$
+--- 21974379
+>>21972028
+So fucking tired of twitter anarcho-libertarian contrarianism mentality and twitter obsession with using "folksy" expressions and sounding "silly," it's some kind of self-gelding thing to guarantee that the men taken in by it can't recover from the mincing faggots they had to become to take part in it
+--- 21974605
+>>21972342
+who said anything about white nationalism outside of europe?
+--- 21974621
+>>21972342
+Do you feel this way about nationalism for non white ethnic groups?
+--- 21974629
+>>21974605
+The whites living in those countries who feel that they have a right to maintain imperialist hegemony.
+>>21974621
+Yes, I am anti nationalist and believe in a global unity and humanism. However, white nationalism is the most concerning as the white nations make up the imperial core and bourgeoise states.
+--- 21974658
+>>21963815 (OP)
+Try pic related.
+--- 21974688
+>>21963815 (OP)
+Some of Thomas Sowell’s works might do the job. Some briefer speeches/articles of his where he criticizes unthinking embrace of “multiculturalism” as an ideal (a critique of this hence indirectly supporting nationalism, by exclusion).
+
+http://tsowell.com/spcultur.html
+
+>Those who use the term "cultural diversity" to promote a multiplicity of segregated ethnic enclaves are doing an enormous harm to the people in those enclaves. However they live socially, the people in those enclaves are going to have to compete economically for a livelihood. Even if they were not disadvantaged before, they will be very disadvantaged if their competitors from the general population are free to tap the knowledge, skills, and analytical techniques which Western civilization has drawn from all the other civilizations of the world, while those in the enclaves are restricted to what exists in the subculture immediately around them.
+
+http://tsowell.com/spmultic.html
+
+> You want to see multiculturalism in action? Look at Yugoslavia, at Lebanon, at Sri Lanka, at Northern Ireland, at Azerbaijan, or wherever else group "identity" has been hyped. There is no point in the multiculturalists' saying that this is not what they have in mind. You might as well open the floodgates and then say that you don't mean for people to drown. Once you have opened the floodgates, you can't tell the water where to do.
+--- 21974734
+Support for at least some degree of coherent nationalism (i.e. against “open borders” or policies practically equivalent to them over years/decades) isn’t just from “racism.” As others in this thread being up, the onus should in fact be on those pushing for “multiculturalism and diversity” as to WHY this is good, and how they plan to bring about their quaint utopian idealism of abolishing all differences between ethnicities and cultures that lead to conflict between them when they’re crammed together (e.g.: Islamic fundamentalism being fundamentally incompatible with a Western liberal or progressive ethos, even).
+
+As well as why we should depreciate the value of labor if not for the benefit of the same “1 percenter capitalists” progressives claim to hate.
+
+Social trust is negatively affected by ethnic diversity, case study in Denmark from 1979 to the present.
+
+http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2012.00289.x/abstract
+
+Ethnic homogeneity and Protestant traditions positively impact individual and societal levels of social trust.
+
+http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/4/311.short
+
+In longitudinal perspective, [across European regions], an increase in immigration is related to a decrease in social trust.
+
+http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/3/1211.abstract
+
+Immigration undermines the moral imperative of those who most favor welfare benefits for the neediest.
+
+http://cos.sagepub.com/content/53/2/120.abstract
+
+The negative effect of community diversity on social cohesion is likely causal.
+
+http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/20/esr.jcv081.abstract
+
+In Switzerland, social peace between diverse factions isn’t maintained by integrated coexistence, but rather by strong topographic and political borders that separate groups and allow them autonomy.
+
+http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0095660
+
+Our analysis supports the hypothesis that violence between groups can be inhibited by both physical and political boundaries.
+
+http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4939-1705-1_12
+
+Diversity hinders between-group cooperation at both the one-on-one and group levels.
+
+http://spq.sagepub.com/content/78/4/324.short
+
+The best chance for peace in Syria is better borders (intrastate or through the creation of new states) “suited to current geocultural regions”, and tribal autonomy.
+
+http://www.necsi.edu/research/social/syria/syria.pdf
+
+Using data from US states, study finds a negative relationship between ethnic polarization and trust.
+
+http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1465-7287.2010.00215.x/abstract
+
+Diversity is associated with more White support for nationalist parties, except at the local level where large immigrant populations cut into vote totals for nationalist parties.
+
+http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/1/249
+--- 21974740
+>>21974734
+In Australia, ethnic diversity lowers social cohesion and increases “hunkering”, providing support for Putnam’s thesis finding the same results in the US.
+
+http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/juaf.12015/abstract
+
+After controlling for a self-selection bias, study finds that ethnic diversity in English schools reduces trust in same-age people and does not make White British students more inclusive in their attitudes towards immigrants.
+
+http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X14001392
+
+In Germany, residential diversity reduces natives’ trust in neighbors, while it also reduces immigrants’ trust but through a different pathway.
+
+http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X1400074X
+
+Increasing social pluralism (diversity) is correlated with increased chance of collective violence.
+
+https://www.jstor.org/stable/425106?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
+
+[E]thnic heterogeneity [diversity] explains 55% of the variation in the scale of ethnic conflicts, and the results of regression analysis disclose that the same relationship more or less applies to all 187 countries. … [E]thnic nepotism is the common cross-cultural background factor which supports the persistence of ethnic conflicts in the world as long as there are ethnically divided societies.
+
+http://www.scirp.org/reference/ReferencesPapers.aspx?ReferenceID=1251240
+
+Genetic Similarity Theory (GST) could help explain why diverse groups in close proximity increases ethnic conflict and ethnic nepotism.
+
+http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912005569
+--- 21974747
+>>21974740
+>>21974734
+Good posts. 
+
+>You can see why [in the 1920s] American felt our borders were out of control. [The immigration law passed at the time] stated a preference for Northern Europeans] ... [Restrictions on] Southern Catholics and Jews—this went on to 1964, so all through [World War II] there were incredible restrictions. 1965 comes, we’re reluctant leaders of the world, we have an economic boom, we didn’t have much immigration, and we have a ton of guilt. First, about the Holocaust. [Rep.] Manny Celler was voted in in 1923…he was Jewish, from Manhattan. He was warning about the Holocaust, and everybody was ignoring him. In 1947, he was head of the Judiciary Committee, and he was able to get jurisdiction [over immigration] changed from the Labor Committee. He had control over immigration reform. There was a huge attitude change. Exodus had been published. Israel was popular. The other thing was the civil rights movement. Black soldiers were coming back, and there were Jim Crow laws. Those movements drove the 1965 law. Philip Hart, called the conscience of the Senate, was passionate about civil rights. ... They decided to do away with preferences for work skills, and have preferences for family reunification. That’s pretty unique to immigration law—they gave green cards to extended family members.
+
+>“Manny Celler managed to get immigration into the Judiciary committee,” Orchowski told TAC in an interview. “That changed the whole focus on immigration from a labor thing to a justice [thing].”
+>Following the conclusion of the war, Celler worked to liberalize American immigration laws. He helped pass a bill that allowed 339,000 Displaced Persons to come to the United States, including many Jews.
+>Over the next few decades, he continued to work to liberalize American immigration laws, pushed by Jews and others who were discriminated against by the current system. That culminated with him writing and passing the INA, which is also known the Hart-Celler Immigration Act of 1965.
+http://deborahkalbbooks.blogspot.com/2015/11/q-with-margaret-sands-orchowski.html
+
+See also
+http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2018/04/05/the-special-jewish-role-in-passage-of-the-1965-immigration-law-a-reply-to-abraham-miller/
+--- 21974781
+>>21963821
+The social identity theory makes a good case for nationalism since smiliar people cooperate more effectively. Different peoples sharing the same system will compete with one another for power at the cost of the whole. Any unity will be very difficult to achieve on grassroots level which benefits the elite class.
+--- 21974788
+>>21963815 (OP)
+>no Evola or Hitler
+read Gentile
+--- 21974790
+>>21971986
+Nationalism is incomparable with liberalism. Nationalism is all about putting the group above all else; liberalism is about putting the individual above all else. This is the main political dichotomy.
+--- 21974799
+>>21974790
+All "classical liberals" from Locke to Rousseau to the founding fathers to the biggest bleeding heart pussies like Mill were nationalists who would never have dreamed of dissolving nation states
+
+Even Marx didn't think nations would just disappear and understood they'd be around for a long long time as natural forms of organization, even after the revolution. Because he understood that people group themselves into ethnic and cultural identities automatically, and these already exist and have a lot of weight in people's lives. Even after a total worldwide communist revolution he didn't actually think this would change except over the long term maybe. Lenin was the same.
+
+"Nationalism" is so primordial that not even Marx and Lenin thought it was disputable.
+--- 21974814
+>>21974799
+>All "classical liberals" from Locke to Rousseau to the founding fathers to the biggest bleeding heart pussies like Mill were nationalists who would never have dreamed of dissolving nation states
+No liberal would ever support the group over the individual, otherwise they would not be liberals.
+--- 21974830
+>>21974814
+It's a false dichotomy, they all knew that groups always exist and will always exist. Locke would never dream in a thousand years of not letting the natural formation of the English (not even the British, but the English) continue to exist, or to sacrifice it on the altar of "radical individualism."
+
+Liberals simply believe that within naturally existing ethno-cultural formations, liberalism is the best way to live and govern. You are mistaking some kind of Kojevian Fukuyama dystopian proselytizing "one-world-democracy" with actual liberalism. The German liberal party was called the National Liberal party. Liberals have always been basically "patriotic," until 1945 when neoliberalism started wearing the skin of this authentic classical liberalism and pushing shit like "constitutional nationalism."
+--- 21974969
+>>21963815 (OP)
+bump
+--- 21974974
+>>21974781
+>smiliar people cooperate more effectively
+i would categorize this as "races exist". that other anon seemed to think i was only talking about IQ differences, but social constructs are real things too and the older the more powerful.
+--- 21975037
+>>21974799
+>All "classical liberals" from Locke to Rousseau to the founding fathers to the biggest bleeding heart pussies like Mill were nationalists who would never have dreamed of dissolving nation states
+>"Nationalism" is so primordial that not even Marx and Lenin thought it was disputable.
+That's completely anachronistic. The nation state, as a concept, only came out about as a result of the French revolution to distinguish the new republic and federate disparate cultures into a single warring faction. Nationalism itself is further refined by revanchism and Barrès in the late 19th C, but before then, English liberals supported the American revolution, generals served in whichever army they could with little regard to 'nation', Louis XVI would have Austrian soldiers massacre the French if it meant keeping his throne and Rousseau praised the Swiss state, not the nation, just as much as the potential Corsican one.
+--- 21975184
+>>21972003
+Its not a coincidence that, say, the Germans developed German culture and the Han developed Chinese culture (although in that case foreign conquerors contributed). Your hollow "rebuttal" means nothing.
+--- 21975198
+>>21970615
+>The point I'm making is that a city like Samarkand
+I assumed you were talking about Europe. My mistake.
+--- 21975209
+>>21975037
+This kind of "the nation is a historically contingent concept!!" pilpul is old and stale. Machiavelli despised Spaniards and Frenchmen and wanted an Italian to unify the (famously disunited, lmao Italians are all regionalists and hate eachother lol so much for the nation state!) Italian people in a single state. Englishmen in the 16th and definitely the 17th centuries were fiercely self-conscious of the glorious tradition of Englishness, and defended the "ancient constitution" as their unique heritage, and subordinated the monarchical principle to the popular/republican principle of the English nation. There are limits to the stupid liberal academic game of saying that group-feeling is a completely modern invention and everybody prior to 1789 or whatever made up date was a racemixing enthusiast who didn't care if he was conquered by this or that king. This is true to a point and especially true in some extreme cases, but for the most part it is normal for ethnic groups to be self-conscious of their ethnicity, which is a vague category encompassing both physical phenotype and "culture" in the sense of "how we do things around here." The use of the word nation to designate this is fine, in the same way that the anachronistic use of the word state to designate what was clearly a state-like formation in some past epoch is fine as long as one doesn't reify it in egregiously silly ways.
+--- 21975225
+>>21975209
+Some useful introductions to this line of thought:
+https://odysee.com/@RechtesArchiv:9/GregJohnsonANewBeginningHeideggerEthnicNationalism:0
+
+https://counter-currents.com/2023/03/forgotten-roots-of-the-left-part-iii/
+--- 21975229
+>>21975225
+Text version of the video lecture if preferable
+https://counter-currents.com/2017/06/heidegger-and-ethnic-nationalism-part-1/
+https://counter-currents.com/2017/07/heidegger-and-ethnic-nationalism-part-2/
+--- 21975265
+>>21971997
+>Grow the fuck up
+>take the Trotskyist pill
+lmao
+--- 21975736
+>>21974629
+--- 21975837
+>>21974974
+Preference and discrimination based on distinct group traits are genetically hardwired but not limited to genetic traits. They can be anything from religion and how you dress to racial traits like skin colour.
+
+Though of course a people that has a different race and culture will be easier to integrate than a people that has just a different culture.
+--- 21975842
+That is more difficult to integrate, not easier.
+--- 21976107
+>>21972063
+riddle me this
+if internationalism and trotskyism are so superior, why did stalinism end up winning out and the national communism/socialism in one country policy became the model each socialist nation followed in practice
+--- 21976497
+>>21976107
+Stalinism eventually failed because it failed to achieve a global revolution. Trotsky foresaw the inevitable failure of the socialism in one country idea as he correctly predicted in a global climate surrounded by hostile capitalist nations they would organize boycotts, embargos, coups, wars etc to prevent the develop of socialism
+--- 21976501
+>>21976107
+>stalinism end up winning out
+Factually incorrect. Trotskyism became the predominant ideological force within geopolitics for several decades and was a direct cause of the Soviet Union's collapse. I don't know what schizophrenic history book you've been reading, but reducing the conflict to some outdated Russian power struggle is either dishonest or flatly deluded.
+--- 21977072
+>>21974734
+For your collection:
+Immigrants Reduce Unionization in the United States
+https://www.cato.org/blog/immigrants-reduce-unionization-united-states

lit/21964823.txt

@@ -217,3 +217,39 @@ Gregg L. Frazer
 --- 21972812
 >>21972606
 Thank you
+--- 21973879
+>>21964823 (OP)
+spooky Washington
+--- 21973937
+>>21971058
+>John Adams
+>largely irrelevant
+Bruh moment
+--- 21973959
+>>21971445
+> "man" who wears a wig and stockings (the origins of trannyism in America)
+He hasn't taken the macaroni pill. This is the look of world conquering colonizer supermen who spanked shitskins so hard they cry about it 300 years later. You might not like it, but this is what synthesis of beauty and power looks like.
+--- 21974995
+>>21972528
+The Adventures of Jonathan Corncob, Loyal American Refugee
+Oliver Wiswell by Kennth Roberts 
+Lovecraft wrote an essay entitled 'A Description of the Town of Quebeck in New France, Lately Added to His Britannick Majesty’s Dominions' and he portray himself as an royalist. and every time he mentions a British military victory, he shouts GOD SAVE THE KING
+--- 21976297
+>>21974995
+Good suggestions.
+--- 21976902
+>>21964823 (OP)
+This feels like it may be related
+--- 21977124
+>>21966444
+Those trips did not go to waste.
+--- 21977171
+>>21967333
+>he cannot rhetorically handle claims and arguments
+Oh no…
+--- 21977221
+Thomas Jefferson said himself that metaphysics are a waste of time.
+--- 21977268
+>>21966636
+>Low iq people read
+This board is dead

lit/21965033.txt

@@ -633,3 +633,318 @@ Vatican II has apologized for*
 >>21965033 (OP)
 >le tradlarping on anime degenerate website 
 never gonna stick pal
+--- 21973405
+>>21969667
+Saying the catholic church undermins god is like saying transgender acceptance undermines current science except that is actually true. The catholic church does not need to be Christian just as scientific "consensus" does not need to be scientific
+--- 21973410
+>>21970622
+>talking bad about circumcision is talking bad about jews
+Thats just about the most basic pussy shit you could criticize them about. Akin to calling transgenders delusional for chopping of body barts, its an unlosable argument
+--- 21973419
+>Hitler was... le good
+>Hitchens is... le evil
+
+Yes, yes, you will reply with
+>yes, unironically
+The problem is that when you look at /lit/ as a whole you see nothing except trademark internet contrarianism.
+How are these opinions different from, say, going on /tv/ and saying 
+>[acclaimed movie] sucks?
+
+It's not that the mainstream can never be wrong, it's that the trend of going against it purely to be le unique becomes too obvious.
+In summary, ur gay.
+--- 21973427
+>>21973419
+OP never said hitler was good, hitchens is a hack
+>>21965249
+cope and seethe. Some acclaimed movies suck dick. Think for yourself.
+--- 21973428
+>>21965239
+>Atheism and materialism
+Every single post with these words combined into this buzz phrase is always retarded.
+>when there's unlimited evidence to the contrary
+And there's the tardation in question.
+--- 21973438
+>>21967797
+>And the church has less child diddling than teachers and Jews and politicians.
+Catholic priests molest at over twice the rate of the gen pop, and yet your argument is... 
+>dude it could be worse
+
+Catholics are comically retarded.
+--- 21973466
+>>21965033 (OP)
+>doesn't believe in God
+Can't get more evil than that. He led millions to Hell despite knowing in his heart of hearts that God is real. He made his career by attacking the faithful, such as when he spread malicious lies of Mother Theresa.
+Hell is too good for him, but it will do.
+--- 21973475
+>>21973466
+>despite knowing in his heart of hearts that God is real
+elaborate
+--- 21973482
+>>21973475
+Romans 1:20
+>For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
+You know God exists. Christopher Hitchens knows God exists (I don't use the past tense despite his death because he is very much aware of the fires burning his flesh now) and every single person, animal and object in the world knows God exists.
+Atheism is not real. "Atheists" just want to sin without feeling guilt. It's like saying "oh it's okay to commit a crime if you don't get caught". But you will get caught. God WILL punish you. Denying Him won't save you.
+--- 21973486
+>>21973482
+I accept your concession.
+--- 21974166
+>>21971732
+Reminds me if this
+--- 21974194
+>>21973438
+That’s false and also I’m not Catholic 
+
+The psychological association found that at its peak 4% of Catholic priests (70s) abused children. 7% of teachers have and are abusing students. The catholic priest situation also dropped off dramatically in the 80s and there have been only a few cases since. 
+
+It’s also noted the priests are much more likely to be homosexual than the Gen pop, but accoridng to the apa this doesn’t correlates with child abuse. That’s a differnt discussion.
+--- 21974515
+>>21972382
+>>"It's, just like, all the same God, maaaan"
+Do you know what a strawman is, anon? Also, your point was steelmaned for you in that post and now you're shifting the goal posts in order to ignore the argument given toward your insistance on focusing on dogmatism. Instead of just stating the same arguments again, even though you failed to address them, I'll add that no where does it say that the way relgious teachings are understood need remain static and unchanging IRregardless of how the culture around them has evolved and made encounter with greater complexity. There's even a conversation thread ITT relating to the diversity in thought within catholicism and the formal mechanisms used to reflect on religious teachings in light of the such.
+
+So no, I'm not the one "sidestepping" here. You're asserting a really shallow concept of religion and clearly don't understand how it actually operates. Again, you need to read more.
+--- 21974571
+>>21974194
+He is probably referring to the fact that it's assumed between 1-2% of the population are pedophiles (that's people who have an attraction to children, not those who have necessarily acted on their desires). 4% therefore appears quite high by comparison. You're saying the church has twice as many abusers as the general population has pedophiles, and not all pedophiles even act on their perversion.
+
+What's your source for the 7% figure?
+--- 21974643
+>>21970911
+>no really! I don’t understand what you just said! I’m serious!!
+
+Okay
+--- 21974649
+>>21970924
+>why yes, I do follow The Amazing Atheist on Twitter 
+
+We’re not all in a cult together, honey. I don’t vouch for this guy, much less follow (anybody) on Twitter
+--- 21974878
+>>21974643
+>NO, YOU REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW SMART I AM TO FIGURE OUT GOD IS LIKE SANTA! I DON'T BELIEVE IN SANTA! 
+>ARE YOU NOT IMPRESSED?
+Yawn, get some new material that doesn't rely on asserting people obviously smarter than you can't comprehend your laughably basic takes.
+>>21974649
+If you want to focus a subset of religious people (e.g. evangelicals) we'll focus the guy who rose to fame spouting your ideological simplicities. 
+
+Seriously? This is the legacy of the New Atheism internet fad...bisexual furry rape/cuck fetish porn? Really?
+--- 21974907
+>>21974878
+Why are people like this never content to be a little bit degenerate? If I were a satanic pedophile vampire elite, and I wanted to further degeneracy, I would make all the Amazing Atheists of the world just a little bit degenerate, each in different ways. This one would say "c'mon, just leave furries alone" and this one would say "c'mon, it's not that big a deal to have a gay pride parade with ass sex on Main Street," but you'd never have both coinciding in the same person, let alone in a major representative of the more ostensibly benign forms of degeneracy, like atheism. 
+
+But instead what happens is where there is some degeneracy, soon all forms of degeneracy will be there. If someone is pushing "sex positivity," within one week you will find tweets with them enabling pedophiles and screaming at someone for not chopping his kid's cock off, and saying that all states should throw open their borders and adopt UBI and make ten COVID vaccines per second mandatory for zygotes. It's never just one thing. They are always total walking nuclear reactor meltdowns of horrible ideas and perverted habits.
+--- 21974941
+>>21973410
+He says it directly to the face of Rabbis though. Have you ever done that? "Unlosable argument" yet there are still massive amounts of people who claim it's fine and normal and good to mutilate the genitals of children. In all cases, this should be condemned, Hitchens did so directly to the faces of those perpetrating these acts, have you?
+--- 21974972
+>>21974515
+You are sidestepping the issue. You would like to pretend all religious is just a friendly chat about what interpretation of God is correct where all viewpoints are equally welcome. This is the muted and tamed version of religion, and only becomes this way when conquered by secularism. In theocratic states, or whenever religious people really gain power, there is invariably intolerant dogmatism. Why is there tension between Israel and Palestine? Because both groups hold steadfast to a dogma that God gave them special rights to the same bit of land. They aren't interested in agreeing they both have different interpretations, they flat out deny the validity of the other side, categorically. Religious shares traits across populations of vast distanced, this is true, but it is true because religions are created by man, and man has similarities across the world. I WILL repeat again, the different created religions assert things that are clash with other religions, and this is always a point of contention and often of open hostility between religious groups, and as the example I noted earlier, can fuel war and animosity down through the generations. If your point is that religion is better the less dogmatic it is, I whole heartedly agree, but that's merely to say religion is better the less of it there is.
+--- 21975049
+>>21965033 (OP)
+No he was just wrong about the spiritual reality of life since NDEs are real and prove that there is an afterlife and that we are eternal and will go to heaven unconditionally when we die.
+
+>b-b-but NDEs are dreams or hallucinations somehow
+Already explicitly refuted in the literature you likely have not read on NDEs.
+
+Here is a very persuasive argument for why NDEs are real:
+
+https://youtu.be/U00ibBGZp7o [Embed]
+
+It emphasizes that NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:
+
+https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist 
+
+>"Among those with the deepest experiences 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."
+
+Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. When you dream and wake up, you instantly realize that life is more real than your dreams. When you have an NDE, the same thing is happening, but on a higher level, as you immediately realize that life is the deep dream and the NDE world is the undeniably real world by comparison.
+
+Or as one person quoted in pic related summarized their NDE:
+
+>"As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved."
+
+Needless to say, even ultraskeptical neuroscientists are convinced by really deep NDEs. So he was convinced immediately when he woke up into the light as well.
+--- 21975059
+>>21974972
+>You are sidestepping the issue.
+Then why did I directly address your points and steelman your argument while you neglect to acknowledge the details with which I've presented you? What's really happening here is that you've indoctrinated yourself with simpistic atheistic talking points and will likely soon resort to scientism when you can't even perform basic calculus. 
+
+Again, you insist we only focus on dogmatism and refuse to converse about the phenomena of religious understanding occuring throughout humanity in general beyond the simplistic idea it means you yourself can't become informed and build a personal relationship with religion. You also refuse to offer comment on how longstanding religious institutions have formal organs that specifically deal with their theology based upon the idea society is complex and everchanging.
+
+What's actually happening here is that you're being confronted with your own ignorance regarding the subject and, atheism being an intelligence LARP, can't submit to the idea your understanding is falliable. Pretty ironic given that's what atheists always seem to project on to those possessing religious beliefs.
+--- 21975145
+>>21975059
+You keep saying you've addressed my points and "steelmaned" them, yet the actual content of my posts seem to have completely passed you by. I addressed the fact that, once secular society has imposed it's morals on religious institutions, they become much more tolerant and well behaved. 
+
+Also, "scientism" isn't a word.
+--- 21975300
+>>21975145
+Yeah, I said that religious belief is culturally contingent and it's thereby undecidable on a macro-social level which religion should be invested with ultimate authority. I then said that this doesn't entail the idea that a given religious structure is untrue or not superior to others even when it comes to how you restrict it according to cultural context. I added that you shouldn't neglect the fact religious understanding is a cross-cultural phenomena, it uses the same language and even often the exact same methaphor and imagry across cultural borders, and emphasized that such things remain relevant in modern contexts even though they harken back to preliterate man.
+>once secular society has imposed it's morals on religious institutions, they become much more tolerant and well behaved
+That's a new point and even though you've failed to address any of my prior arguments I'll point out why it's fallacious. First, you have no standing to assert we focus on negative outcome related to religious belief. I can equally point to positive outcomes and influences religion has had while also asserting the fact that no one argues religous structures allow man to act without any mistakes (once again you're asserting an idea of dogmatism that begs the question that religious structures and understanding remain static regardless of how society evolves or changes). Second, an article written by Pope Benedict XVI that's available ITT gets into how societal influences outside of the church can corrupt it's organs--that is the dialogue between any church and secular society is a two-way street and positive/negative influence cannot be characterized as always coming from only one of them.
+>Also, "scientism" isn't a word
+It is. Scientism is a dogmatic ideology that insists only beliefs based on scientific understanding carry weight when it comes to how we should understand and interpret the world around us. It's a side effect of the demotic phase of language in which we find ourselves (see pic-related and do further research if interested).
+--- 21975350
+>>21975300
+In this post, you claim that "this doesn't entail the idea that a given religious structure is untrue". This is literally what I said earlier, it's possible one of the religions is true, but that would mean every other religion which conflicts with it's claims MUST be false in those claims. Therefore, best case scenario, the vast majority of religious ARE false. And, once again, I explained why religions may share traits, after all their creators are always human, and humans share many psychological traits across the world. None of this lends the slightest credibility that any specific religious claim is true, and as we've established already, 99% of them conflict with each other and as such if they aren't all false (which seems the most likely), than all but one are false, yet they all have equal claim to being true (a very weak claim).
+--- 21975368
+>>21974972
+>>21975300
+Atheism is a religious belief and it's a very militant system for its adherents.
+--- 21975389
+>>21975368
+Atheism is the rejection of religious beliefs. You hold the atheist's position regarding every religion which you do not believe in. What is commonly referred to generically as "an atheist" is simply a person who holds that position to all proposed religions.
+--- 21975444
+>>21975350
+>still insisting I accept his dogmatism
+>still not directly addressing the points I made
+I want you to now realize that even the most base and dogmatic religious believers have a direct counterpart when it comes to atheism. You've demonstrated this yourself.
+>>21975368
+Exactly.
+--- 21975758
+I wasn't aware the Prophet Hitchens still had his acolytes. What a wonderful thing to behold, one catty little pseud trashing another.
+--- 21975779
+>>21975758
+>>21975444
+>>21975368
+Hit the nail right on the head. Atheism is just as fundamentalist as religion. People who subscribe to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have been brainwashed and are too stupid to understand it.
+--- 21975787
+Not as good as Graham Oppy.
+--- 21975819
+>>21975368
+You can only believe that, if you are terminally online or live in some ultra Christian state, where only edge lords dare to call themselves atheists. Travel a little and you will see millions of atheists who don't really care one way or another.
+--- 21975845
+>>21975779
+>focus on low-hanging fruit
+>refuse to actually study religion 
+>pretend scientism is a mark of intelligence
+>encourage supporters to react with ridicule and snark
+Gee, I wonder why New Atheism went so wrong and its legacy is intellectually lazy fedora tippers.
+--- 21976006
+>>21975444
+>>21975779
+Religious people actually think the adherence to logically formulated argumentation and a careful vigilance against self deception is actually the same as supernatural assertions resting purely on faith, a mode of belief which necessarily conflicts with others who use the exact same mode to reach conflicting conclusions. This is why it is the most secular countries which are advancing in tangible metrics of truth such as technologies and more religious countries are floundering in mediocrity. It's literally the first thing you learn in philosophy that at a base level, one must accept some presupposition, it's only the religious who use this as justification for the most insane belief systems, where as the judicious person acknowledges that anything presupposed opens the door for error, so we should be most cautious in our presuppositions and keep them as minimal as possible (for example, to presuppose that our sense data reflects actual objective things outside of our perception, whereas the religious presuppose their own culture's mythic fairy tales about a divine Father in the clouds is actually real, see the difference?)
+--- 21976025
+>>21975845
+>meanwhile, with the candidate that the religious bloc of America voted for...
+--- 21976031
+>>21967906
+what he said
+--- 21976133
+>>21976006
+>adherence to logically formulated argumentation and a careful vigilance against self deception
+Atheists have been failing at that ITT. So much for your monopoly on logic.
+>>21976025
+>pretending the Clinton option was any better
+--- 21976156
+>>21976133
+>>pretending the Clinton option was any better
+My point is that you posting people you don't like with Epstein pics isn't an argument, since the candidate of choice for the other "team" is in the same boat. But you knew that, and are posting in bad faith (the religitard playbook).
+--- 21976212
+>>21976156
+>my point is I have TDS and was triggered by a picture of Lawrence Krauss with Alex Epstein
+Noted and it's cool you want to focus on that instead of the factors which lead to the pathetic legacy of New Atheism.
+--- 21976221
+>>21976156
+Aside and since you keep bringing it up--did you know that Clinton flew on the Lolita Express something like 20 times and that whenever he did so he dismissed his secret service detail (something he is known to refrain from doing most of the time)? I'm not a fan of Trump but if you don't have a problem with that there's something wrong with you.
+--- 21976245
+>some atheist jew might have been a pedo, therefore God is real!
+--- 21976258
+>>21966425
+In was easy then too, when people like based Parenti were btfoing Hitchens 20 years ago.
+--- 21976262
+>>21976245
+>as a scientist I discerned the girls weren't underage via empirical observations
+Yeah, that monopoly on logic claimed by atheists is infalliable. Kek, you can't make this shit up.
+--- 21976274
+>>21965273
+Finkelstein.
+--- 21976292
+>>21976262
+>make this shit up
+inb4 snark because atheists are predictable retards.
+--- 21976395
+>>21976133
+Ah, you don't address my points, you address "atheists" as a group of people. Interesting.
+--- 21976409
+>>21966915
+He certainly did and I believe that's the only one
+--- 21976426
+>>21975758
+It's amazing to me how many people apparently like Hitchens on this board.
+--- 21976467
+>>21976426
+Hitchens is based
+--- 21976512
+>>21976395
+>you don't address sperg
+>tips fedora
+Atheists don't have a monopoly on logic. Simple as. See >>21976262.
+--- 21976549
+>>21976467
+He was a complete idiot.
+--- 21976551
+>>21976262
+Lmao Krauss is a Rat
+--- 21976567
+>>21976467
+Hitchens was a drunk and midwit
+--- 21976576
+>>21976512
+>There are some atheists who aren't consistent!
+>Checkmate atheist!
+Are you serious? Again, try addressing the content of my posts, not bringing up irrelevant quirky academics.
+--- 21976585
+>>21976549
+>>21976567
+He relentlessly dunked on dogmatists of every religion, to their faces, with wit and style, he was extremely based. He also wrote mercilessly against political and religious figures who, for some reason enjoyed mainstream admiration but who were complete fraudsters, see the Clintons and Mother Teresa.
+--- 21976587
+>>21976467
+>Hitchens is based
+--- 21976595
+>>21976576
+>Again, try addressing the content of my posts
+Atheists don't have a monopoly on logic. Simple as.
+>quirky academics
+Is that how atheists refer to sexual predators? I guess you need save the term so you can make your child molestation jokes about priests.
+--- 21976604
+>>21965033 (OP)
+[cum bitch fag] lol test
+--- 21976610
+ nugger 
+--- 21976633
+>>21965149
+God, you fucking faggots are worse than 
+>muh 18 million gorrillion 
+Memes. 
+https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
+Shit didn't break 300k. 
+
+Hussein murdered upwards of 80,000 kurds, with some of the more pessimistic estimates being double. His regime had to topple eventually, and if you want to blame anyone, blame the fucking Satanist child fuckers in America's government that put him there.
+--- 21976710
+>>21965033 (OP)
+we all are on our own ways
+--- 21976746
+>>21976585
+He dunked on a bunch of people even stupider than himself
+--- 21976841
+>>21976633
+Those are "violent deaths" and not total civilian deaths, retard.
+--- 21976883
+>>21976841
+What other deaths are you going to attribute to American soldiers?
+Lack of disaster relief, economic sanctions, or perhaps the executions carried out in the name of the goat-fucker's death cult? The database also includes the death toll from insurgent groups, which began to far outstrip anything the American soldiers were doing after Hussein was executed, and the remnants of his regime wiped out.
+--- 21976905
+>>21976883
+>What other deaths are you going to attribute to American soldiers?
+Deaths attributable to the war, retard. But don't worry, shifting the goal posts doesn't distract from how much of an edgyboy you are.
+--- 21977098
+I find the logical arguments for God perfectly sound, but I know I could never deeply believe in it no matter how hard I try. How do I cope with being a hylic?
+--- 21977147
+I'll always give Hitchens credit for criticizing religions other than Christianity as practiced in the West. It's not even that I'm particularly bothered by it (and some of it's deserving), but I can't take anyone seriously if that's their whole shtick.
+--- 21977409
+>>21974941
+>have you?
+are you 12? Hes an author and public speaker and I'm not, why are you championing a guy for having common fucking sense?
+--- 21977423
+>>21977098
+be good

lit/21965261.txt

@@ -199,3 +199,154 @@ I remember. No rush.
 I’ll helm this one. Might get some design help, we’ll see.
 >>21972085
 CLUTCH
+--- 21973357
+>>21972123
+Alright. I will take my time then, need to progress my other writing as well.
+--- 21973578
+>>21972123
+some aspiring investigative journalist should write up an exposé of all of the &amp/unreal press drama and submit it to 016
+--- 21974079
+>>21972123
+whens the greatest hits gonna drop? ive been looking forward to it for a long ass time
+--- 21974595
+>>21974079
+never, its vaporware
+--- 21974775
+Can we submit poems in our native language?
+--- 21974789
+>>21974775
+Last issue had an entire poem in Italian, I don't see why not.
+--- 21974812
+>>21974079
+>>21974595
+I've never read an issue, I'd love to get the greatest hits as an intro.
+--- 21974815
+>>21973578
+Just ship all the Unreal people off to Kiwifarms at this point.
+--- 21974896
+>>21974815
+Woolston should be the first on the boat
+--- 21974954
+>>21974896
+it seems he's living rent free in your head, do you think about him all the time? Ever had an erotic dream about him?
+--- 21975019
+>>21974896
+Really wish Unreal didn't start this dox war. Our culture around authors was already cancer enough without shit like this.
+--- 21975510
+>>21975019
+does anyone actually know why they started it or what they did? haven’t heard a straight answer on that
+--- 21975644
+>>21974954
+Trust me, no one has ever had an erotic dream about Woolston, including his wife. It was an illconsidered hookup but she got pregnant and so was stuck with the guy. She must lead a miserable life having a husband who looks like that and is a retarded shill. On top of all that, their kid looks like she has Downs.
+--- 21975751
+>>21975510
+Both guys made the grave error of wounding Rhyme’s fragile ego.
+First guy was the best-of &amp editor. Rhyme really wanted to interview him for the show but best-of anon told him to fuck off because the show was shit and that he had nothing to gain because the viewership was so low.
+Second guy was someone who had a bunch of experience in Youtube/audio who was constantly shitting on them for the poor quality of the show. He was a massive asshole but a lot his advice was really good and should have been implemented. When the first doxing came out this guy took the side of the best-of editor and called Rhyme out on being a discord tranny. Rhyme took that as the signal to dox him as well, apparently pulling the dox from something he had submitted to the magazine.
+--- 21975858
+>>21975751
+>Rhyme really wanted to interview him for the show but best-of anon told him to fuck off because the show was shit and that he had nothing to gain because the viewership was so low.
+
+not true, he never told rhyme to fuck off. he helped with the channel, even recorded an audiobook for one of the anthology stories. rhyme and his homies doxed him to get revenge because he derailed the server for months talking about his stupid drama with some girl and then they found out he'd staged the whole thing using alts
+
+the thing about the second guy might be true but no one can confirm it was rhyme, there's some evidence this guy fake doxed himself to frame rhyme becuase he was a massive cunt and loved causing fights and drama in the server
+--- 21975905
+>>21975858
+>there's some evidence this guy fake doxed himself to frame rhyme
+That's one hell of an accusation to make with no evidence. The guy doxed himself because, I don't know, he's mean or something? The other guy said he gave genuine Youtube advice.
+--- 21975945
+>>21975905
+where did he say that? were you even in the server when it happened?
+--- 21976029
+>>21975945
+Look, I don't know what sort of gender issue you Unreallies are on today but you need to take a step back and look at this situation.
+>>21975751 this is completely believable. Character motivations make perfect sense and I can follow point A to point B.
+>>21975858 This one, your explanation of what happened, is completely and totally unhinged. The guy who was doing the best-of &amp was pretending to be two dozen different people and crafting an ever-branching and overlapping conspiracy that you needed to put an end to by posting pictures of his face around 4chan and fucking with his family? And then the other guy doxed himself because he was mean or something?
+To answer your question: No, I was not in the server when "it" happened. I can still tell you to take your meds.
+--- 21976115
+I'm not sure what to make of all the drama and have heard several differing accounts of what exactly happened and how it all went down but as of right now I'm sincerely hoping for the success and growth of both Unreal and &amp. It's exciting to see people taking the initiate to create something, especially something that is a group effort. I know where I'm posting right now so obviously things going sideways and getting fucked up is to be expected but hopefully it all smooths out in time and maybe any truly guilty parties can be weeded out (not likely, I know) Cheers to you all, and keep on writing my brothers.
+--- 21976174
+>>21976115
+I'm also a hopeless optimist but even I have trouble thinking everything will be alright here. &amp editor is probably going to prison for real this time and Unreal people don't look very sorry for the whole doxing thing, even going so far as to test the waters on whether they can just say the second guy doxed himself. 
+Obviously I hope they can get their shit together and go back to creating but I'm having trouble visualizing a clear path to that end. Maybe I can just hold out hope for a third group to come along and do the idea in a slightly more stable way.
+--- 21976181
+>>21976029
+the first screenshot here is of the bestof amp dude talking about how he wanted to record a podcast episode on &amp. he wanted to do it and never told them to fuck off.
+
+ later screencaps are rhyme explaining why he hates the guy and why he got his homies to doxx him. hope thats enough for you to believe
+--- 21976199
+>>21976115
+here are people talking about how the other guy was doxing himself for attention
+--- 21976208
+>>21976181
+The account that sent the threats wasn’t him, it was Melville LARPing as one of his alts to stir up shit
+--- 21976228
+>>21976181
+That screenshot isn't really him agreeing to interview from the looks of it. More just saying it could be interesting. We're also 5 months past that and there's no interview with the guy. 
+Obviously that could be down to him being a malicious actor like the later text suggests but I'd like to see some evidence of this. Hopefully some evidence a little more damning than whatever this >>21976199 is. Some random guy accusing him of being an attention whore? I'm not willing to believe this guy doxed himself "for attention". Also, why would the &amp editor dox this guy? I thought he came to his defense.
+--- 21976358
+>>21976199
+Imagine submitting to Unreal, they use your submission to dox you and then use an image like this as evidence of you doxing yourself. I'd be fucking livid. Glad I never sent in anything.
+--- 21976404
+>>21976358
+we wouldnt publish your shit anyway motherfuckwr
+--- 21976441
+>>21976199
+Tooky's mag had some good stuff. Is he publishing/youtubing any more, or too busy with discord?
+--- 21976450
+>>21976441
+Tooky’s is a joke. The guy has zero talent but is such a pretentious smug little fucker
+--- 21976480
+>>21976441
+>AI "art"
+>good stuff
+--- 21976558
+>discordshit
+Don't care. Make a thread about it and stop derailing submission threads.
+--- 21976571
+>>21976558
+Fuck off Unrealcuck
+--- 21976581
+>>21965261 (OP)
+This is a discord project right? I don’t associate with discord users.
+--- 21976592
+>>21976581
+one of the new &amp editors is a discord tranny who masterminded a fuckton of gay ops, so i’d steer clear
+--- 21976594
+I thought it was an unwritten rule that we shouldn't be doxing one another. When did that change?
+--- 21976596
+>>21976594
+It changed when the Unrealcucks started a doxxing war
+--- 21976607
+>>21976558
+Can’t make a thread about it, the Unrealcucks will report it to the jannies for raiding and get it taken down
+--- 21976621
+>>21976596
+Well that's unfortunate. Make an example out of them and wrap it up so we can get back to &amp.
+--- 21976691
+>>21976621
+Can't, because the &amp editor is in bed with Unreal Press now. They're working together on a bunch of shit. The Unrealcucks are gonna infiltrate &amp and bring it down with their retarded doxing ways, then once the &amp editor goes to prison the best of discord tranny will take over and totally fuck over the zine by dragging in his faggy personal drama
+--- 21976717
+>>21976691
+Make an example out of all of them then. Whatever it takes to discourage this behavior in the future.
+--- 21976763
+>>21976717
+How do we do that?
+--- 21976771
+>>21976581
+No, you don't have to join anything. I just email the editor.
+--- 21976793
+>>21976771
+The &a no editor is literally in the Unrealcuck discord
+--- 21977043
+>>21976793
+damn, RIP &amp
+--- 21977131
+>>21975751
+okay so those two have been explained but who was the girl they were posting facepics of in the last amp thread then? what did she have to do with this shitshow?
+--- 21977161
+>>21971812
+is that story told anywhere?
+--- 21977204
+>>21977161
+search the archives for the message in a bottle thread if you wanna hear part of it

lit/21966287.txt

@@ -815,3 +815,120 @@ A staffie talking with a snake in the garden if Eden about how good babies taste
 >>21966593
 >This Isn't Tennis
 Scholarship kid from the streets makes his ways into the upper eschelons of the corporate legal world only to discover he must initiate himself in a demonic ritual in order to make partner. It's written so you are unsure whether the ritual is literal or metaphorical. There's also a fellow coworker you are unsure is real and is removef from the narrative halfway in.
+--- 21973361
+>Scrap for sale
+>Bow before you leave
+>Hence my wonder
+--- 21973538
+>>21973361
+>Scrap for sale
+Story if a company that sells rubbish. It is like Moby's dick, and there is the elusive white whale, but in the scrap world it is the solution to equilibrium, the device that will restore balance to consumptive energy in the world, the thing that will allow for a higher state of consumption and waste management, fundamentally allowing for a consumption that will outlast the universe. Whole chapters are dedicated to the profitability and genealogy of waste
+
+ >Bow before you leave
+Story abiut the tallest person on earth being left behind because the resources required to accommodate them on the spaceship were too much to justify their survival. It focusses on the small cuts made to them daily, leading up to lift off, to encourage them to kill themselves, or have a fatal accident because the survivors didn't want to take any guilt with them away from the inadequate world
+
+>Hence my wonder
+An centuries old person is dying at the next plateau of age humanity faces on its way to immortality. It is a story of their recollections on their life
+
+>ripped cone speakers
+>room for politics
+>the only man who wouldn't swim
+--- 21973549
+>>21973538
+If autocorrect was a dildo I'd still fuck up
+--- 21973608
+>>21972532
+I like everything but
+>Could Head Pats Save The World?
+I really like this one and the 
+> T-Shirt with a bullet hole from Target
+This one sounds like a comedy masterpiece that Jack Black or Christopher Mintz-Plasse, or maybe even Adam Sandler could act
+--- 21973640
+>In Celebration of Solitude
+>Have Some Humility 
+>Three Summers
+>Suburbanization
+--- 21973795
+>>21966287 (OP)
+>Cloudgazer
+>To the Boy on the Hill
+>Wooden Doors or The Big Lie
+>Tilting at Windmills: A Nobody at the Ass-End of Nowhere
+--- 21973831
+>Emeriti Psycho 
+>The Backpacker Diaries
+--- 21973979
+>>21973831
+>>21973795
+>>21973640
+One of you cunts could at least shit out some ideas, beyond titles. Shit cunts
+--- 21974042
+>>21973538
+>Moby's Dick
+Biography of the sad love life of an ageing electronic record producer. Long chapter devoted to some tenuous bullshit philosophy linking green politics with tantric sex and the yin and yang of make and female orgasms
+--- 21974081
+>>21968699
+Chief, why are you scrolling the chins while at a restaurant with your parents? Put the phone down and enjoy the time you have with them. Threads come and go, family doesn't.
+--- 21974099
+>>21973979
+Says the anon who couldn't be bothered to include some ideas along with his seething.
+Seriously...just how dumb are you?
+Something tells me you could pour out your heart and write a pretty good synopsis of "In Celebration Of Solitude" from >>21973640 .
+--- 21974271
+>>21974099
+If I said I'd already written plenty of them, probably the post just before those three, containing ideas, would you believe me? Would it matter? Is the principle any different? This is anon, cunt. You understan?
+--- 21974282
+>The Rime of the Ancient Neger
+
+>On Cucking
+
+>Revolt Against the Crab Cage
+
+>The Death of George Floyd: Part 1 of the Doctor Chud Series
+
+>Sneedsaga
+--- 21974311
+>>21973831
+>Emeriti Psycho 
+A daring and supposedly true glimpse into the life of an Arabian Emirates Prince. It has been critically panned for its insinuations that Arabs are a race of psychopaths, and has been banned worldwide for its detailed outline of a “Final Solution to the Sandnigger Question”.
+
+>The Backpacker Diaries
+Part travel book, part memoir, all autistic. The diaries of the infamous Detroit Discombobulator, who, in June, 1978, gave every person living on odd numbered streets a severe and permanent case of vertigo courtesy of an icepick.
+--- 21974321
+>>21974311
+I am genuinely interested in the Emirati Psycho. It's always American pov of this of that, but how about an UAE-an?
+--- 21974395
+>>21971745
+Lmfao. Got a good auld laugh outta this one, anon.
+--- 21974497
+>>21969845
+a little disappointed with some of the answers i received, so i think i'll take a crack at these myself.
+>>John Barleycorn will not die
+a novel about an English village in the 14th century facing a bizarre and unprecedented crisis. For reasons unknown, they are unable to harvest any of their crops, as the grains will not yield to the scythe or the thresher, nor the fruits to hands of those who try to pick them. As the villagers begin to starve, the assistance of the local Baron, monastery, and university are all enlisted and all fail. Finally, just when the villagers begin to leave to avoid starvation, it is discovered that, just as it had come, the malady affecting their crops had likewise disappeared inexplicably. Despite it being a major theme within the book, the cause for why the condition came and why it left are not revealed or even hinted at throughout the book and remains throughout a total and complete mystery.
+>>The Hound and the Serpent
+honestly, >>21970550 did a really good job, i can't improve on it.
+>>Of the Tsars and their Crimes.
+A book written at the dawn of the 20th century, written by an anonymous Russian mystic. It deals with the history of the Russian Tsars from their origins to the time of it's writing, and using the many events contained within, some of which are seemingly unsupported by any evidence and even downright supernatural in many cases, as a condemnation of the Tsars, and the very concept of a Russian government. The book ends with a cryptic predication that after the current line perishes, the Russian nation will be punished for supporting the for as long a period of time as the Tsars had existed.
+--- 21974513
+>>21974497
+*honestly, >>21970544 did a really good job, i can't improve on it.
+--- 21974531
+>>21974271
+With witty retorts like "cunt", I doubt you wrote any of the summaries here. You're simply too banal.
+--- 21974555
+>>21968643
+>The Spooks
+A hardboiled noir about a detective lounging around in Detroit's suburban drug dens who has a chance encounter with a beautiful boy partaking in the vice. The unlikely partnership to uncover the hidden hand of government black ops mixed with ill-fated romance of a broken youth and random a fatherly figure.
+Inspiration:
+The Crying of Lot 49, Operation Midnight Climax.
+--- 21975317
+>>21974282
+>Revolt Against the Crab Cage
+A fat man vows to change his ways and attain a healthy weight after his father's obesity related death. His progress, posted to social media, gains the ire of a group of coordinated fat activists whose attempts to silence him escalate from passive aggressive insinuations of "fat phobia" to an eventual kidnapping and cock and ball torture. He nevertheless perseveres and discovers that, sans 300lbs" he can simply stroll briskly to evade them.
+--- 21975383
+>>21972478
+>The Negromancer
+Biography of Leroy "Wewuzz" Jackson whose jazzy sax solos brought black america out of the darkness of the Jim Crow era and into the more jazzy darkness of single motherhood and crack cocaine. Leroy's deal with the devil is covered only in passing, by way of explaining his eventual default on said deal and time in jail for "beatin that red crackas ass" in a PCP fuelled incident at a local jive hotspot.
+--- 21977233
+>>21966287 (OP)
+The Bitch And His Fish

lit/21968068.txt

@@ -248,3 +248,48 @@ It's an idea which occurred to me when I was reading page 147 of Thus Spoke Zara
 >>21972356
 >For Nietzsche, the the overman creates new values, but the overman also continually fails, the overman cannot constitute a norm forever because then a new one will take its place when someone creates new values
 So why are you reifying this as an absolute if you are being told right there in the text that it is in some way contingent or ephemeral? And the overman isn't trying to establish a "norm"—those are for herd animals.
+--- 21973267
+>>21972757
+That's the whole point I was making, it's a failed absolute.
+--- 21973633
+>>21973267
+Evaluation isn't about creating an absolute, so where does a "failed absolute" come from?
+--- 21973647
+>>21973633
+The overman creates new values which are overcome with new values.
+--- 21973682
+You will never read it in German.
+--- 21974212
+>>21973647
+You can't "create" an absolute. It would be dependent on you for its existence to have occurred. So clearly you are using some non-philosophy definition here and making confused conclusions about Nietzsche's thought
+--- 21976054
+>>21974212
+Absolute here just means truth in general.
+--- 21976125
+>>21968068 (OP)
+isnt that basically just liberalism and the idea of spontaneous order?
+--- 21976153
+>>21976125
+Not familiar.
+--- 21976509
+>>21968068 (OP)
+being buddhist is cringe and gay as fuck
+you can keep quoting platitudes about identity and the self not being real all you want. you still have to relate to the physical reality and grapple with it on just the same level as all the rest of us, all it enables it you to do is feign a nonchalant sense of superiority. which, when challenged would quickly crumble and you would find yourself no more dignified in your suffering than the next person
+ascetism/buddhism is just spiritual opium no different than ordinary religion. as for the rest of your rant you don't even seem intelligent enough to grapple with the basic philosophy you're trying to establish here
+--- 21976643
+>>21976509
+I hope you know that for Nagarjuna, there's a thing called conventional reality, as opposed to the ultimate truth of emptiness. It's a really dumb straw man you just made, clown. Homophobic bigot too. Stop existing.
+--- 21976855
+>>21969382
+Great comic. 
+Nietzsche is cool. Even if you disagree, you cannot read him without ending up with a firmer base for your values.
+--- 21976917
+>>21968068 (OP)
+If your question is if your professor has an accurate understanding of Nietzsche, then the answer is yes. For Nietzsche, stagnation is death. "Only those who continue to change remain my kin."
+--- 21976923
+>>21968068 (OP)
+
+Nietzsche was not writing in the eastern tradition. 
+Apples to oranges moment.
+
+Also -- you cannot disprove him.

lit/21969168.txt

@@ -189,3 +189,14 @@ I see your point, but it's worth pointing out that logic is prior to causality,
 --- 21972127
 >>21971944
 What's second best? Sensory deprivation chamber?
+--- 21973172
+bump
+--- 21973721
+bump
+--- 21973733
+>>21971806
+>he doesn't know about non-Euclidean geometry
+--- 21975228
+bump
+--- 21976014
+bumperino

lit/21969482.txt

@@ -363,3 +363,128 @@ bro, human economics and government is corrupt in every form. there are just per
 --- 21972609
 >>21972519
 everyone in the French revolution missed the point. Hugo almost got it...so close it's insane.
+--- 21973037
+>>21971291
+> we
+> we
+> we
+Our discussion was over before it even started.
+--- 21973077
+>>21971291
+Sounds like you just want to blame and resent others for your own stupidity as a cope, given this rabid a reaction. You being a loser is not a necessity of any kind.
+--- 21973213
+>>21972398
+man isn't born free, he doesn't live free, and he doesn't die free either. what I think Rousseau cares about is whether the slavery is just, and he argues that nature is a better judge than society.
+--- 21973387
+>>21969482 (OP)
+Can't both readings simultaneously exist at the same time?
+--- 21973388
+>>21969482 (OP)
+For an intellectual, he is very handsome.
+--- 21973424
+>>21971932
+Oh come on, a single second it takes to type that into Google and find it where it's from. Maybe I was being coy, but you were being intentionally difficult. If you really wanted to find out where it was from, you'd have done so in less than half a minute.
+--- 21973433
+>>21972444
+Not even close, but good try schizo
+--- 21973435
+>>21973424
+So you quoted what Rousseau said in... The Social Contract to refute what I was referring to regarding his speculative anthropology in... The 2nd Discourse on Inequality?
+
+I have to ask you a serious question. Are you retarded? Or do you like being a hamfisted troll who likes to muddy the waters when you have intellectual debates?
+--- 21973488
+>>21973435
+I love how you had to wait for my invitation to Google the quote kek. 
+Anyways, I'm not sure where you went to university and what things you learned there, but it's actually legitimate, when you're debating an author, to quote the author's own words (and yes, from a multiplicity of texts). Particularly when one text is an attempt to provide a solution to that which the author discovered in the preceding ones. However, just like the fact that a text is discoverable by Google, I'm sure that you knew that already, but you're having fun calling me retarded, coy and a ham fisted troll(unfamiliar expression to me I'm afraid), so it's probably no use responding to you any longer....
+--- 21973503
+>>21973488
+Look, I understand that being terminally online has rotted your ability to focus, so I'll walk your hand through this conversation. Was the focus on The Social Contract? No! It was on Rousseau's 2nd Discourse. Click on the quotes:
+>>21969735
+>There's a great argument that Rousseau's 2nd Discourse (who Marx, despite his great familiarity with Rousseau, never engages with) significantly weakens historical materialism by showing that inequality existed prior to property relations, making inequality an incontestable and thus an insurmountable fact of human existence
+>>21969881
+>This is how the first strings of power are wielded in the primitive tribe, aka inequality, and this occurs before the fateful moment when somebody declared that something "belongs" to him. This is the timeline of Rousseau's narrative as he wrote it.
+>>21969881
+>There's no property in the primitive tribe in Rousseau's discourse. And there's certainly no legal system backed by political power that can uphold economic inequality, since that level of society hadn't developed yet.
+
+And the worst of it all is that you have the gall to pretend that The Social Contract is relevant when you yourself admitted that the point of contention is the details of the 2nd Discourse:
+>>21969794
+>If you think his point in the second discourse is that "inequality has already existed and is normal" you simply haven't read him even a little bit
+
+>to quote the author's own words (and yes, from a multiplicity of texts)
+I'm sure quoting out of context got you far in university, especially when dealing with two different texts that speak to two different problems from different levels of resolution. Again, when you deal with this necessary simplification in The Social Contract, you have to wonder how does that somehow cohere with Rousseau's speculative anthropology in the 2nd Discourse, where there are several stages of primitive society which exist BEFORE property is enshrined. What did he mean by this thought experiment? How do you make sense of this contradiction? Your solution is to ignore it completely. You didn't even bother to figure it out because all nuance escapes you.
+>but you're having fun calling me retarded, coy and a ham fisted troll(unfamiliar expression to me I'm afraid), so it's probably no use responding to you any longer....
+Good. You have nothing interesting or substantial to contribute. Begone.
+--- 21973526
+>>21969735
+>significantly weakens historical materialism by showing that inequality existed prior to property relations
+
+>OP uses Rousseau (whom he did not read) to counter Engels (whom he did not read)
+What did OP mean by this?
+--- 21973665
+>>21973526
+The 2nd Discourse on Inequality debunks, or at least causes serious problems, for The German Ideology. If you've ever compared the crucial arguments made between the two, you'd see my point.
+>Engels
+Who tf cares about Engels when you can care about Marx?
+--- 21973687
+It's funny how many based retards there are in this thread who told OP "he didn't read Rousseau", even though he's dropping clear references to what Rousseau mentioned in granular detail, ironically proving that /lit/ doesn't read and only regurgitates other people's thoughts. I guess you have to know something to know that you're being retarded, but most people treat these contests as a game of retard chicken, because that's all that they're capable of with what little they know.
+--- 21974846
+>>21972602
+Am I supposed to disagree with that? The problem with the Rousseauists in the French Revolution is that they didn't take his system to the ultimate conclusions! As long as property and inequality exists, our society will be corrupt and lack virtue
+--- 21974886
+>>21969787
+Define liberal. Just because he was a fruity frenchman doesn't mean he was liberal. Liberals don't bash reason, language, art, and science. Liberals don't advocate for censorship and the death penalty for heresy.
+--- 21974917
+>>21973037
+>>21973077
+Literal retards
+>>21973213
+Thoughtful reply
+--- 21974998
+>>21969482 (OP)
+>I would ever be good enough to write my book that I have spent years planning. 
+>French wine is superior to everything else (not /lit/ related but it was a dumb thing to believe)
+--- 21975036
+>>21973037
+why? can't speak French?
+--- 21975053
+>>21972398
+Just admit you got filtered by the very first sentence.
+--- 21975061
+>>21975036
+Better than you, amateur. I've read Rousseau in French exclusively.
+--- 21975067
+>>21975061
+>allegedly speaks French
+>simplest joke about it flies over his head
+ngmi
+--- 21975135
+>>21975053
+"Filtered" by a sentence most people agree contains an overt falsehood? Okay.
+--- 21975869
+>>21973503
+>terminally online
+says the terminally online manchild
+--- 21976063
+>>21974886
+Idk if I'm competent to give a complete definition, but I'd say that liberalism is a philosophy which posits that given a certain form of government, there can exist, for each of its subjects, a perfect union between personal pursuits, and the survival of the rest of the structure. American revolution was an attempt to put into place a country where the pursuit of happiness of individuals coincided with the pursuit of happiness of the whole. So the liberal assumptions include an idea of the individual subject which is very specific (a subject which pursues his survival possibly at the demise of others) and a specific governance which somehow excludes that possibility of the demise.
+--- 21976455
+>>21969831
+>germans were the ones to found romanticism
+that's true though
+--- 21976670
+>>21969482 (OP)
+
+Same
+
+I also used to laugh at Kant and idealism
+--- 21977026
+>>21969482 (OP)
+He was a freak mutant weirdo, whats more freakish is he wrote his most major works on a whim, trying to disspell money troubles. 
+
+ Hunter S. Thompson put it best
+One of gods prototypes too rare to die and too lonely to live, or whatever.
+--- 21977039
+thank you anon for slogging through yet another of these household names of liberalism - I will check it out once I've got the time. Any recs?
+--- 21977174
+>>21969482 (OP)
+Your take isn't novel at all. I got my degree in political philosophy about 10 years ago and my libtard professors maintained that Rousseau was the granddaddy of fascism.

lit/21969486.txt

@@ -343,3 +343,747 @@ Beer is neurotoxic. A single serving of alcohol is neurotoxic. Alcohol is worse
 --- 21972962
 >>21969719
 You ever watch Come and See? I like that one German that says he regrets nothing even though he's about to be executed. I can't imagine how cucked and pathetic you must be to "have nothing but regrets". I don't have any.
+--- 21973063
+>>21970237
+>>excruciating back pain if I sleep in a slightly wrong position
+same lol
+it sucks so much
+--- 21973070
+>>21970381
+with what money
+--- 21973084
+>>21972939
+>Alcohol is worse for you than opiates and stimulants.
+Stimulants will absolutely fuck up your brain, don't sell them short. Opioids are mostly safe for the nerves, but they fuck up your endocrine system, so it's pretty much a moot point, as pristine nerves in an endocrine-wrecked body aren't really going to work that well.
+--- 21973089
+>>21970338
+>It's like, I simply cannot become anything because I am not already something. I have been nothing for so long, and it feels like trying to build a house on no foundation, and nothing will stick or stay in place for something else to be placed on top of it. It always feels like some sort of fraudulent act when I am around other people who seem to have had these things. I have been going out, but it doesn't appear to be helping (yet. It's only been about 2-3 weeks of trying to be out more often).
+Nothing to say but that I share this feeling. It seems pointless; the failures and privations of my childhood will render any triumph, if every actual, inferior to those who were born into it. And even then it's unlikely I could ever manage it to start with. The world we live in is simply configured in such a stultifying, ossific way because it doesn't really need people like me to get on. 
+
+The main thing I try to think of to make myself feel better is that it's unlikely if I had had a good life that things would be much different. Inherently life is a chore at best and a hell at worse; we should be thankful to have been born in advanced enough times to while away our time, if not pleasurably, than at least unthinkingly. Far better than being conscripted at 18 to be crippled for the rest of your life! But then sometimes I'm jealous of the accidentality of former young deaths. I've not the courage to kill myself, but perhaps being placed into a situation where such a death came naturally would've worked?
+--- 21973225
+I wasted my 20s, did not even get a degree and will be heading to university for the first time, just as I'm about to turn 29. At least it's free, but I am still a touchless KHV babyfaced manlet. I feel like anxiety will devour me.
+--- 21973590
+>>21969486 (OP)
+The Tartar Steppe
+--- 21973612
+>>21970179
+>mfw 30 and balding so bad I can barely hide it
+--- 21973650
+>>21969527
+lmao, love you "I was studying the blade" types who are just terrified of girls.
+--- 21973669
+>>21973650
+L-l-love as in you find them cute? Asking for a friend haha
+--- 21973678
+>>21969501
+Your 30's are when your choices in your 20's catch up with you. If you made a bunch of dumb choices for short-term gratification and neglect your health, it's where you experience immense decline. You're still a wagie economically, renting or living with your parents. You have no education. You have no women. You watch your body degrade, ache, and slow down. It's still possible to turn things around in your 30's, but it's a hell of a lot of work - especially compared to the extremely minimal effort you have to put in during your 20's where you just coast by and wind up in a great position by 30. But if you do manage your 20's well, your 20's will be a false-prime and you'll live your best life in your 30's. It's the age where you're respected both as a younger person and as an experienced professional. You'll have plenty of assets, maybe a business, and certainly decent income. You'll know your way around women, have all the things they find appealing, and not put them off with an age-gap. You'll also likely make some major life-decisions where you have the power to really control your destiny. Family, wealth, politics, intellectual pursuits - all of these are things you'll be able to think about seriously.
+--- 21973705
+>>21970221
+based fulfilled genius successful socially competent manwhore.
+--- 21973997
+>>21973678
+>You'll know your way around women
+Virgin who kissed 2 girls by 28, it's over for me
+--- 21974011
+>>21969501
+Men have a very short prime age. It's somewhere between 28-32. Only 4 years. A woman's prime is 16-32.
+--- 21974067
+>>21973997
+No it's not. I said it's not too late even if you're in your 30's. Just keep fighting and stay on a course where the future is better than the present.
+--- 21974085
+What is there to be wasted? Every day I spent doing nothing is a day I don't regret. The idea that you are alqays supposed to do anything because (no reason) is a toxic cancer.
+--- 21974100
+>>21974067
+I can't talk to women or people outside of a work environment (it's my job). Getting matches on apps that just ghost after a few messages just rubs it in. I'm not a normie and I'll never be one no matter what I do to try and improve my situation.
+--- 21974118
+>>21969514
+>going out to bars
+>meaningless conversations with normalfriends
+>while ingesting toxic depressive substance
+>while the most vapid music imaginable plays
+>while most of the people are there to have a one night stand with some vapid whore and never even question if that actually fulfills them
+If you really think about it this is just indoctrination of hollywood + conditioning that leads to one thinking that this kind of activity is of any worth
+--- 21974132
+>>21973678
+I know you're trying to be helpful and consolatory about this but you've managed to somehow depress me even more. And not the kind of depression that would eventually energize me to take control of my life. You've crystallized it almost perfectly that life is pretty much decided for you from the start. "Made a bunch of dumb choices": how do you think someone comes to make those "dumb choices"? Implicit in short-term gratification and the neglecting of your health is the idea that society has basically rejected you and this is how you cope. There is no "controlling your destiny"; either you have connections to people or you don't and you just get to wallow and seethe in it.
+>>21969514
+You are a horrible person. I am so sorry for your friend that he ever met you.
+--- 21974229
+>>21969486 (OP)
+Lambert Strether from The Ambassadors
+>Live all you can; it’s a mistake not to. It doesn’t so much matter what you do in particular, so long as you have your life. If you haven’t had that what have you had? This place and these impressions—mild as you may find them to wind a man up so; all my impressions of Chad and of people I’ve seen at his place—well, have had their abundant message for me, have just dropped that into my mind. I see it now. I haven’t done so enough before—and now I’m old; too old at any rate for what I see. Oh I do see, at least; and more than you’d believe or I can express. It’s too late. And it’s as if the train had fairly waited at the station for me without my having had the gumption to know it was there. Now I hear its faint receding whistle miles and miles down the line. What one loses one loses; make no mistake about that. The affair—I mean the affair of life—couldn’t, no doubt, have been different for me; for it’s at the best a tin mould, either fluted and embossed, with ornamental excrescences, or else smooth and dreadfully plain, into which, a helpless jelly, one’s consciousness is poured—so that one ‘takes’ the form as the great cook says, and is more or less compactly held by it: one lives in fine as one can. Still, one has the illusion of freedom; therefore don’t be, like me, without the memory of that illusion. I was either, at the right time, too stupid or too intelligent to have it; I don’t quite know which. Of course at present I’m a case of reaction against the mistake; and the voice of reaction should, no doubt, always be taken with an allowance. But that doesn’t affect the point that the right time is now yours. The right time is any time that one is still so lucky as to have. You’ve plenty; that’s the great thing; you’re, as I say, damn you, so happily and hatefully young. Don’t at any rate miss things out of stupidity. Of course I don’t take you for a fool, or I shouldn’t be addressing you thus awfully. Do what you like so long as you don’t make my mistake. For it was a mistake. Live!
+--- 21974246
+>>21974132
+>Implicit in short-term gratification and the neglecting of your health is the idea that society has basically rejected you and this is how you cope. There is no "controlling your destiny"; either you have connections to people or you don't and you just get to wallow and seethe in it.
+
+This. Sick of these "it's all about choices" retards. Why does every faggot with a double digit body count larp like a guidance counselor, like they possess some occult secret to success that has nothing to do with being born desirable?
+--- 21974255
+>>21974229
+>dude just... take a walk around the block and get some ice cream lol
+
+I respect the suicides infinitely more than this reddit slop.
+--- 21974267
+>>21974255
+The book itself is a bit more nuanced than that, this is just what the character believes...the rest of the book kind of dismantles this line of thinking.
+--- 21974273
+>>21974267
+Thanks for wasting our time with the faggot reddit slop then. It wasn't even well-written.
+--- 21974286
+>>21974246
+Exactly. People will always point to examples of individuals turning their lives around and finally being accepted by society but implicitly they were already predisposed to being accepted and simply weren't in the right place at the time to receive that. To be born undesirable is a lifelong affliction that no one who is actually desirable will ever understand given their consciousness is so attuned to being accepted. You will never understand how subtle and pervasive that rejection from the world is, how utterly complete it is simply because you were born a certain way and have certain features. Fuck off with your happy-pill bullshit for once.
+--- 21974306
+>>21974132
+>>21974246
+NTA, but this is supreme cope. i get it, life is hard but if you turn to drugs, cooming and video games instead of studying, gym and getting a job you will live a miserable life. choices add up over time and its self evident from anyone who has experienced time passing and observed the people in their lives. i know people who dropped out of school at 16, i know people who dropped out of university. they all universally live objectively shittier lives then people who just stuck at it
+
+>inb4 im a 3/10 so society abuses me
+yeah thats true, but its better to be an ugly fucker with a job (which mightve been more difficult to get because people innately dislike ugly people) then an ugly fucker smoking weed all day
+--- 21974310
+>>21974286
+>To be born undesirable is a lifelong affliction that no one who is actually desirable will ever understand given their consciousness is so attuned to being accepted. You will never understand how subtle and pervasive that rejection from the world is, how utterly complete it is simply because you were born a certain way and have certain features. 
+
+Precisely. It's like being buried alive in space. There's nowhere to go, because there you are. And you nailed the predisposition part. There comes a point in a """"man's"""" life when all the love songs on the radio, all the pep talks and pick-me-ups that pop culture has to offer, however superficial or profit-driven the motive behind them, there comes a point when you realize that these things were never referring to YOU and what is possible for you, that you might as well have hacked into the culture industry of an alien species. That you can be so irrevocably different and set apart from others you share 99% of genes with. And not only that, but we got the beautiful ones banging on the bible of "good choices", too. I'm done.
+--- 21974313
+>>21973225
+29 is practically the ideal age to get after what you want out of your life. Want to a be professional? Enter university. Want to be a writer? Get something published. It’s not until you cross that 30 mark that it starts to feel too late.
+--- 21974319
+>>21974306
+It's better to be dead than to listen to faggots like you tell me to get a job because the machine needs my utils.
+--- 21974323
+>>21969527
+Everyone socialises. Disdain for normies isn't a good cope for this. It isn't a good cope for anything, really.
+--- 21974324
+>>21974319
+>its better to be dead
+you will be dead. you will commit suicide in less then a decade, partially because you don't have a job
+--- 21974328
+>>21974324
+>muh jorb
+Eh just spare me you fucking muppet. I am my own boss and have my own place and it's still tumbleweeds. You're right about the rest.
+--- 21974338
+>>21969486 (OP)
+Stoner
+--- 21974340
+>>21969514
+people seethe at this because they are the friend. hell i was but i changed a leaf and became a protonormie.
+
+what he needs is not to socialise at bars and clubs because thats being thrown in the deep end. Also given his build and personality what he needs is to get a serious physical hobby. (skinny geeks basedjack at climbing, introduce him to it) other hobbies such as lifting are good but for self confidence in skinny guys nothing beats a good martial art like boxing, brazillian blowjob or muay thai. from those hobbies he will talk to more people and become comfortable in his own skin in groups. then eventually he'll want to go to bars because he can actually have fun at them, just dont expect him to be a sesh head. i have a few friends who always wanted to go super hard (im british) and it was a nightmare and i never wanted to do anything with them ever after a certain point because i knew that a couple drinks after work would be end with 5am in some shitty club
+--- 21974348
+>>21974328
+why did you reply to my post all butthurt if you didnt apply to what i was describing? christ what an unlikeable cunt, physiognomy is real
+--- 21974356
+>>21974340
+stupid faggot can't conceive of the possibility that some people aren't wired for his lifestyle. oi m8 you got a loicense to be a fuckin reddit posting brainlet?
+--- 21974364
+>>21974348
+>ummm sadness sweetie? not a good look
+Lunch break's over wagie, get back to work
+--- 21974370
+>>21974348
+>>21974356
+Not him but I sincerely hope every atom of your body is plunged in eternal torment forever, and those atoms, splitting up an infinite number of times, also are steeped in agony.
+--- 21974372
+>>21974356
+yeah thats what i said as a cope too. i was just incredibly insecure and timid. a few months of boxing and gaining muscle and it turned out exploring the beauty of the world and its peoples actually was something i was interested in. no one is forcing you to go hard and thats why i caveated it
+--- 21974374
+>>21974370
+Whose atoms
+--- 21974381
+>>21974374
+The atoms of the dude telling people that getting a job will magically make life better, then confirming how evil he is by saying "physiognomy is real" and ugly people deserve what they get.
+--- 21974383
+>>21974372
+lol you sound like a child. your whole life turned around because he took a krav maga class. cringe.
+--- 21974385
+>>21974364
+>ESL faggot cant into english
+its okay buddy, we all learn somehow. next time just double or triple read posts so you don't make this mistake again
+--- 21974387
+>>21974381
+Oh based, we are in agreement. You're the "I hope the atoms of all worldlings are bathed in eternal torment" fella from the suicide thread, right? I like you.
+--- 21974390
+>>21974387
+That wasn't me but I was struck by that guy's post and I tried to capture it here, albeit not as gloriously as he did. I really have begun to sympathize with that pure feeling of anger. What a great post, I need to save it.
+--- 21974400
+>>21974381
+it will make your life marginally better, but you guys shitflung it back at me because youre crabs in a bucket
+
+>inb4 UHM ACTUALLY I HAVE A JOB I HAVE A JOB I HAVE A JOB
+so dont reply then, fucking retard lmao
+--- 21974402
+>>21974385
+Let me get my glasses and pull up my GPT assistants to parse your posts bro, how did I ever think I could make it without such epochal advice as "sedate your suicidal despair with physical activity and making money bro."
+--- 21974404
+>>21974400
+I do have a job. It's actually incredibly stultifying and insipid.
+>will make your life marginally better
+So my descent towards the abyss will be made marginally slower. I appreciate you.
+--- 21974406
+>>21974400
+mincing little brainlet. you really are all just boomers back for another round. I hope your country gets fucking glassed
+--- 21974412
+>>21974404
+marginal gains over time add up, maybe after a few years you wont be so suicidal and might start enjoying life
+--- 21974437
+>>21974383
+no my life was fine, most peoples lives are fine even if they arent social people. it just enabled me to be more comfortable socially that led to me doing it more. if the guys friend has a job and went to uni and has everything else covered and isnt some grotesque freak then he would derive value from my advice
+--- 21974441
+>>21974412
+>marginal gains
+>maybe
+>might
+You've convinced me. I hereby dedicate the rest of my life to slaving at my job in the hopes that I "might" be happy and "maybe" won't want to end myself. Truly, thou art the man. You've solved it entirely. You've really done it. If I had just had the foreknowledge and resolve to understand that all my problems could be solved by being micromanaged for the rest of my life, I wouldn't be in this rut. Clearly you have some preternatural prescient intelligence that I can only guess at. Everyone here, please read this. He says we "might" and "may" enjoy ourselves for once with our "marginal gains"! Three cheers for Mr. Marginal!
+--- 21974456
+>>21970381
+is 30 too late?
+--- 21974457
+>>21974441
+man if you dont want to try and live a better life then just kill yourself
+
+i posted my original post because there are ways to make your life objectively more enjoyable, and there are ways to make your life objectively less enjoyable. youre now chimping at me for some reason, thats fine anon, its not sexy to tell people that not being fat and not doing drugs will make them more comfy and feel better, but its the truth nontheless! thats me, there i go! the TRUTHTELLER! WOOHOOOOOOOO FOR TRUTH
+--- 21974469
+>>21969514
+That is literally the worst reason to pursue a PhD I’ve ever heard in my life
+--- 21974484
+Faust lol
+Don't act like you wouldn't take the deal lmao
+--- 21974485
+>>21970433
+this is just not true and i dont know how it became so popular. college grads are the most succesful demographic and earn like 1million+ extended over a lifetime. if theres one thing you can do to have success almost guarenteed its to go to college.
+
+and that even includes retarded college degrees. so if you do something in STEM its literally just printing free money
+--- 21974488
+>>21974457
+I'm just joshing you. I honestly don't give a shit. I know what my inadequacies are and what things I can improve on. The only reason I'm on here is out of procrastination, which really translates into my fear of continuing my life's progress. Eventually something in my brain will click and I'll take care of what needs to be taken care of. 
+
+I didn't mean anything about your atoms earlier. I hope they stay intact. To the other anon, hope everything works out. I know what not to expect and yet I know I'd like to do more.
+
+Yours,
+Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker
+--- 21974490
+>>21969501
+>18-30 may be prime for a woman but are they really prime for a man? Wouldnt 30s or 40s be a man's prime.
+The Republic put woman's prime from 20-40 and mans from 30-55. If you expand "prime" from "the best years" to "the better years" I think that is basically right.
+--- 21974491
+>>21974485
+>i dont know how it became so popular.
+it's called cope
+--- 21974499
+>>21974490
+Yeah 54 beats 24 everyday of the week gramps.
+--- 21974510
+>>21974490
+>woman's prime from 20-40
+Woman's prime is 18-22 when she's most fertile and her eggs have less chance of being retarded.
+--- 21974512
+>>21974491
+that and bricklayers claiming that they get paid 10,000$ a brick
+--- 21974544
+>>21970433
+Retard that fell for the internet memes. Just looj up average starting wages. This is publicly available information and takes a 30 second search.
+>>21974485
+Cope from people not wanting to go to college/not being able to do the math that having $40-$50k worth of debt when you leave college is a fucking steal considering the low interest rates and the significantly high income you'll get. It's simple to see the ROI, yet others pretend that once you're out of college you'll have no way to pay that debt back. 
+>>21974512
+It's so fucking bizarre how many tradies online go "yup, fuck college. just get $100k starting wage by being a welder!" when they're literally just flat out wrong. Just being around tradies in real life will CLEARLY show you that.
+--- 21974550
+Where I’m at, having just turned 30, is finally having a really clear sense of who I am, what I want, and what I should, ideally, do with my life but feeling like this is something that I really needed 5 years ago or more to realize. It’s difficult then to identify a way of catching up.
+--- 21974553
+>>21974550
+what did you find. i can tell you if it'll last
+--- 21974638
+>>21974553
+You cannot.
+--- 21974675
+>>21969640
+>they simply don’t need to learn new things of life has worked out for them. they are definitely a 100x happier than us though lmao
+In other words, normalfags are superior beings.
+--- 21974697
+>>21974544
+Averages include the data for people in their 70s, who graduated into a very different economy than ours.
+--- 21974700
+>>21974306
+>i know people who dropped out of school at 16, i know people who dropped out of university. they all universally live objectively shittier lives then people who just stuck at it
+As a university drop-out I can confirm. All in all I'm happy and things could be worse, but had I stuck with it they would be better. 
+There is little use crying over spilt milk, though. All one can do in such a case is cut their losses and move on in a better direction.
+--- 21974702
+>>21974485
+The one data point that is the single best predictor of income and wealth is age, anon. The people going to college and graduating with bad degrees and 5-6 figure debt into an economy with no jobs or jobs with no wages are not having the same results as the minority of people who went to college 30 years ago.
+--- 21974709
+>>21974544
+The typical college graduate in 2020 was looking at 20 years to reaching solvency. 20 years and not a single dollar gained. College graduates at the 10 year mark of their career have made a fraction of what previous college graduates can make. Forget about aggregate statistics and look at the trend of statistics. The ROI is going down and down and down and for generations graduating after, say, 2008, it’s not clear that they’ll get much if any lifetime ROI from their degrees in aggregate at all.
+--- 21974727
+>>21974544
+>He fell for the boomer propaganda
+If you'd ever taken a college statistics class you'd realize that statistics don't mean shit. Anecdotally, every job I've ever worked in has been entirely composed of college grads (with me, a dropout who occasionally falsifies transcripts, being the acception). They are all making the same amount, minimum wage, as everyone else in our generation. The only difference is that the careers are higher status, or they nominally pay better (but actually don't, because of the cost of living in large cities). 
+The only people actually getting ahead are people who's parents set them up by buying them a house. Or they have a trust fund. Most normies (and there is clear data about this as well) are living paycheck to paycheck and taking out thousands of dollars in credit card debt while they /pretend/ to live the upper middle class life that's expected of them.
+
+People treat me like a loser because I live in a shack without running water, but objectively speaking, I've yet to meet someone in my generation who's 'doing well' and isn't either coasting off mommy and daddy or buried in debt.
+
+>But the debt will pay for itself!!!!
+Maybe. I wouldn't bet on it.
+--- 21974731
+>>21974499
+If you're a Greek citizen with an estate and dozens of slaves, as well as a Haram and minor political office, it does.
+--- 21974746
+>>21974731
+Point taken.
+--- 21974780
+>>21974727
+>Anecdotally
+yeah anon... yeah
+
+but also to make this a non meme reply: you actually arent forced to live in the most expensive cities on earth like NYC or San Fran, some mid sized city is perfectly fine
+--- 21974865
+>>21974780
+Don't worry anon, 24 is the perfect age to start working towards being a fifty year old strong man with three wives and a dozen followers
+--- 21974873
+>>21974780
+You’re forced to live where the jobs are.
+--- 21974884
+>>21969486 (OP)
+Futility; or the Wreck of the Titan by Morgan Robertson. the novel that predicted Titanic
+--- 21974900
+>>21974873
+There are things called remote jobs, anon. You should do some research on those.
+
+t. comfy as fuck working from home for a year.
+--- 21974901
+>>21974865
+Meant for >>21974746
+
+But regarding >>21974780,
+That's kind of my point. I gave up a $50/hour job teaching rich kids because the cost of living in [redacted] meant I could earn more cashing welfare checks and living in the boonies.
+
+So you can't fool me with your smoke and mirrors. Some twenty something living in LA and making 100k as a "software engineer" isn't actually accumulating wealth. The ONLY people I've met in my generation who are accumulating wealth are me (a crazy motherfucker) and people who's parents bought them a home. The rest are just living as serfs while larping as middle class.
+
+So when you say that so and so is actually doing great because they went to college, you're making an error by assuming that just because they /look like/ they're successful and their job /sounds/ impressive that it actually means something. But none of these people have tangible wealth, and it seems like status in this generation is actually correlated with negative met wealth for all but the trust fund babies.
+
+The issue is that if you "own" a fancy car and a nice apartment, but it's actually owned by the bank, you aren't really successful. You're just a house nigger. And the thing about being a house nigger is that it can be taken away from you at any time.
+--- 21974922
+>>21969486 (OP)
+>he thinks he had a choice
+--- 21974924
+>>21974900
+I know. I have one. They don’t just let you go wherever you want nor do they pay you enough for you to just wherever you want nor are the large majority of people able to have a remote job.
+--- 21974932
+The closest thing I’ve found is Plutarch’s chapter on Claudius in his lives. Claudius was basically a loser that nobody believed in until he was like 40. 
+
+Otherwise, I’ve found very few. History seems to like figures that find themselves on the right path by the time they’re 29 at the latest…which is crushingly depressing, but it is what it is.
+--- 21974935
+Be like Oblomov, do literally nothing.
+--- 21974938
+>>21974697
+Hence why I said starting wages. Which, again, is publicly available info.
+>>21974709
+You do make very valid points.
+Ultimately it's degree and location dependent for the specific numbers and ultimate cost-benefit analysis, but you seem to be onto something generally. There are ways to get around it and reduce time to solvency, for instance by not falling for the lifestyle bloat meme that >>21974727 points out and what causes most six-figure earners to be drowning in debt.
+
+But you do make good points, and clearly the case isn't cut and dry. 
+>>21974727
+>If you'd ever taken a college statistics class you'd realize that statistics don't mean shit. 
+It's people like you that's wrong with this species.
+>Maybe. I wouldn't bet on it.
+The only reason it wouldn't is if you have no ability to manage money.
+--- 21974994
+>>21974865
+>>21974901
+Strangely motivating. Have on me tonight king.
+--- 21975007
+>>21969501
+Depends what you mean by "prime". Fitness is definitely prime between 18 - 30, but the argument can be made that attractiveness to women peaks later than 30, also it's common to have accumulated enough education or experience to really start making money after 30, which can be view as one's "prime" in terms of making money.
+--- 21975016
+>>21974901
+This is shockingly true. My dad let me rent his old place when he got married, and he gave me a good deal on rent. As a result, I've saved up quite a lot over the years. The only other person I know who has saved up money lived with his parents until almost 30.
+--- 21975132
+>>21972567
+i specifically mean chronic pain, and yeah some people start balding young but it gets more and more likely as you age.
+--- 21975133
+>>21970237
+Delete this.
+--- 21975138
+>>21969527
+Based
+--- 21975140
+>>21970237
+Nightmare fuel. I've started to get horrible neck cramps if I move a certain way.
+
+Don't get old.
+--- 21975148
+>>21969514
+Not everyone cares to do that or fits in there and that is fine. 
+>>21969563
+>>21969614
+Consoomer fucking drones. Time to grow up and realize not everyone is good at life, and that it’s not fair in general. Dumb niggers.
+--- 21975154
+>>21970237
+>All you young bucks need to realize, that for 20.000 generations, man and his ancestors bred at age 13 and died at 27
+How do people still believe this made up bullshit? People had kids much younger, yes, but the vast majority wouldn't be giving birth at 13. 16-19 year old moms? Sure, but having a proper family support structure meant that the grandparents basically served as a second set of parents for a good while. And you wouldn't see people living to their 80s and 90s too commonly, but if you made it last child birth, you realistically would make it to your 50s at least
+--- 21975160
+>>21975007
+There is no universal prime. An athlete will be in his prime probably late twenties early thirties depending on his sport. A business man will be in his prime probably late thirties early forties depending on his business. An artist can be in his prime basically any time before senility. It just entirely depends on the individual and context.
+--- 21975165
+>>21975016
+I’ve only managed to save up $30k by 30. I don’t even know what to do with that amount other than take some time off from work. It’s not enough to buy a house. It’s hardly enough to buy a car.
+--- 21975169
+>>21975154
+It doesn’t matter anyway. Thirty is still thirty, whether you live to fifty or one hundred.
+--- 21975237
+>>21975165
+I'm close to $100k and just turned 30. It is truly depressing, my gf and I tried to get a mortgage and the bank literally thought we were joking (Canada's home owning middle class has been completely obliterated unless you inherit). Mainly I'm just socking money away so things will be easier when we start having kids and the only way I can hope to one day own a home is through inheritance, but the cost of living is so high and growing so fast my dad is worried he'll basically burn through all his savings and wealth in retirement. It's insane to me, both my parents own houses, and my gf's parents own houses, and yet that generation is still so abysmal with money even with the MASSIVE gains of real estate they are still concerned that even after they liquidate everything they'll run out of money! Give me even a fraction of that and I'd be able to invest it safely and live off the dividend but these maniacs spend money as easily as they breath.
+--- 21975244
+>>21975237
+Is this just for urban areas or is this true even in rural areas? Could you at least put the down payment on a nice property with a structure on it out near a smaller town?
+--- 21975246
+>>21970334
+It's about already having lived your best life.
+
+And what book you're talking about is decline and fall, a very different genre even.
+--- 21975262
+>>21975244
+I think there are areas in places like Alberta where there is still affordable property, but it's not just rural, it's freezing cold 10 months of the year and also far away from any of my family. The trouble is there is a knock on effect, when urban centers quadruple in value in a couple of years, smaller urban centers start seeing demand increase, so those prices skyrocket, and so on and so on down the chain of real estate until you're left with the least desirable locations, and even those are getting more expensive.
+--- 21975496
+Don’t know man. I feel like I’ve wasted the first part of my life too. I know what I’d do if I could go back but the path forward from here isn’t as clear.
+--- 21975528
+I'm 20 and consider myself a learned man of the word. I am currently studying at an Ivy League institution. I do not like liberals, socialists and other left wing progressives who want to destroy traditional values and impose their ill-informed dogmas of political correctness onto the populace. They are weak, resentful and dangerous individuals. Also, I do not wish to brag, but I cannot say I struggle with the ladies. I am genetically blessed, and make no mistake, looks and genetics are the most crucial and key factors in determining future success. They like me because of my height (6'5), skin (light tan, white but not pasty), hair (dark). I'm confident in how I am and my ability to get women and live my life, and I don't pay attention to feminists who accuse me of sexism. I talk to them, if they're into it I keep going, if not I find a bitch who is. Women are in abundance, and if you have the cards you can lay them on the table. Eventually you will get one. I'm a smoker and I don't care about my health, I don't "hit the gym", massive porn addiction, I have a reputation for being a cantankerous moody asshole and often fight with other students or professors. I go against all the traditional advice you get of being an agreeable little cuck self improover. but women don't give a fuck. I'm slippery and I know how to stay out of trouble, and to worm my way into pussy, because I was blessed by God and evolution. Many people hate me because of my arrogance, but I don't pay attention to them. I live, and do, because why shouldn't I?
+--- 21975540
+>>21975237
+>and yet that generation is still so abysmal with money even with the MASSIVE gains of real estate they are still concerned that even after they liquidate everything they'll run out of money!
+Based dionysian orgy apres moi le deluge locust generation.
+--- 21975548
+>>21975237
+lmfao what the fuck, leave that shithole of a country, you've got Zimbabwean tier economic collapse incoming.
+--- 21975567
+>>21969486 (OP)
+Did you have any sense of what you wanted to do with your life at any point between 18-30? I
+--- 21975574
+>>21975567
+>I
+what did he mean by this
+--- 21975576
+>>21975574
+He had a fichtean intellectual intuition of the Ich and dwemer'ed out of existence
+--- 21975578
+>>21975576
+Sounds gnarly and also based
+--- 21975604
+why are zoomers like you such pussies
+what do you even want, like did you want to be rich? did you want to be popular? did you want to do more drugs? be more attractive and get more pussy? more free time? plenty of people never had or even imagined those things which is why you're an useless pussy.
+--- 21975615
+>>21975574
+It was just a typo.
+--- 21975620
+>>21975576
+>fichtean intellectual intuition of the Ich
+Explain this to a kantian who never read fichte
+--- 21975636
+>>21975567
+Yes.
+--- 21975646
+>>21975604
+That's precisely the fucking point, genius. Of course I wanted to be popular and fuck more women and be attractive. But I'm not and haven't. I haven't fucked a woman or been in a relationship in 5 years. Everything else is fucking cope. This life is more about what we lack than what gives us pleasure, and it's that lack that drives us fucking insane. We don't need your moralizing.
+--- 21975669
+>>21975636
+What was it? Why don’t you go after that now?
+--- 21975683
+>>21969514
+not to say that being socially isolated isn't horrible and a waste of your life, but the kinds of people who think you are obliged to literally TREASURE their company because you are in your LE TWENTIES and wasted(i guess?), are exactly the kinds of people pretty much anyone is better off without. I actually knew these people well IRL and how laughable it is that they are 1upping anyone if one time they got blackout drunk and fell-over it was into a vagina.
+--- 21975692
+>>21975604
+Don’t you feel at least a little bit bad for the large majority of the millennials and zoomers? As best I can tell, previous generations received a lot of guidance and were encouraged to make decisions about their lives and direction. But even when this didn’t happen, the conventional life treadmill seemed to generally work out for them. They got friends, wives, families, successful jobs or careers, probably a house. The people that didn’t usually did some sort of damaging thing. Starting with the millennials, it was totally different. They really didn’t receive any guidance at all and were raised by screens and single mothers. If they did receive guidance it was a vague sort of “go to college for something practical and it will work out” only it didn’t. There were no jobs, the jobs they were there sucked, prices were too expensive, dating was dead, divorce was a near certainty, abortion was the norm. They weren’t even really encouraged to be adventurous, to pursue their interests, or to even develop interests outside of the screen so most of them ended up getting heavily addicted to technology and failing to identify real interests and passions. Nobody really cared about them or what they did beyond just shitting on them. It’s very easy for me to understand how people in these generations could wake up one day in their late twenties or early thirties after finding themselves on the treadmill, or having shunned it entirely and be profoundly disappointed.
+--- 21975693
+>>21975683
+Social isolation is simply the end-goal of everything. We all get there eventually: it's just some start early and are more prepared for its complete abnegation.
+--- 21975704
+>>21975620
+Fichte: At the core of idealism is the intellectual intuition that the world is posited by me (the I or Ich), that my experience is MY experience. But going even further than Kant, and realizing that it is philosophically incoherent that there can be an entity or domain (the thing in itself) completely apart from me and yet interacting with my experience, the true realization of idealism is that even the apparently contingent aspect of experience (the sensuous data we receive from the thing in itself) is still ultimately just another "product" of the I/Ich. Everything that "is," that has determinate being or that is an object of ordinary experience, is "posited" by the I/Ich. 
+
+Someone who doesn't have the direct intellectual intuition of the world-positing I/Ich at the center of his experience this will reify some CONTENT of ordinary experience or another, whether through naive realism about experienced entities or more abstract realism about abstractly conceptualized matter and physical laws, or even forms of idealist rationalism like Spinoza's in which the experiencing subject is reduced to a determinate function of modes of a non-experiencable, merely "abstractly" ideal Absolute of some kind or another, all of these people end up in the same error of positing a monistic dead world in which actual experienced subjectivity is only an epiphenomenon and all the laws and aspects of that world are fundamentally unaccountable. Whether they do this by saying that reality "just is" the laws and fundamental particles of materialism, or "just is" Spinoza's dead modal Absolute, it's still just reified bits of being posited by the I/Ich elevated to a merely abstract and dead "system." 
+
+But on the contrary, someone who has the originary intellectual intuition instantly sees what is wrong with all these systems and the error that is common to them all, because he immediately apprehends that the world of all possible experience/being is HIS world, posited by the I/Ich, which is at his center. Kant got very close but not all the way to making this realization, he had the vision but failed to see its implications (Fichte doesn't say this directly, he simply says Kant meant to be a Fichtean and others are misinterpreting him).
+
+The ambiguity in Fichte is whether this means the individual experiencing subject or a super-subject like a platonic nous. But the two can be reconciled by saying that it's only in higher grades of self-consciousness that the individual finite subject coincides with the radical world-positing nous-level subject. And collectively in cultures with high degrees of self-consciousness and self-mastery, like the Jena philosophers and the French revolutionary generation, human beings can collectively alter positivity (change consciousness, break through stagnant social and political forms). Again the ambiguity here is whether a high enough degree of this would mean even changing or suspending physical laws.
+--- 21975715
+>>21975169
+Yeah, and 30 isn't even close to old. What most people experience at 30 isn't the effects of age, it's the consequences of their actions (or rather lack of action in most cases) catching up to them.
+Spending your formative years on your ass, never getting sun and exercise, and then spending 8-9 hours of your day sitting on your ass in an office, and having a terrible diet will do terrible things to you.
+A developed mind in a pitiful body is a stagnant waste at best. You must civilize the mind, and make savage the body.
+--- 21975725
+>>21975669
+My goal changed many times. First I wanted to make an apprenticeship, then I wanted to go to college, then I dropped out of school so I had to change my plans again. Now I'm 20 and NEET, but I live on my own savings (no neetbux) and pay money to my parents and clean the house.
+--- 21975727
+>>21975704
+This is great. So the I/ich can coincide with the nous-level subject, or God, or what have you. This is good stuff. I want to experience godly God.
+--- 21975731
+>>21975727
+Yes that's Neoplatonism as well. Plotinus:
+>And this inner vision, what is its operation? Newly awakened it is all too feeble to bear the ultimate splendour. Therefore the Soul must be trained—to the habit of remarking, first, all noble pursuits, then the works of beauty produced not by the labour of the arts but by the virtue of men known for their goodness: lastly, you must search the souls of those that have shaped these beautiful forms.
+
+>But how are you to see into a virtuous soul and know its loveliness? Withdraw into yourself and look. And if you do not find yourself beautiful yet, act as does the creator of a statue that is to be made beautiful: he cuts away here, he smoothes there, he makes this line lighter, this other purer, until a lovely face has grown upon his work. So do you also: cut away all that is excessive, straighten all that is crooked, bring light to all that is overcast, labour to make all one glow of beauty and never cease chiselling your statue, until there shall shine out on you from it the godlike splendour of virtue, until you shall see the perfect goodness surely established in the stainless shrine.
+
+>When you know that you have become this perfect work, when you are self-gathered in the purity of your being, nothing now remaining that can shatter that inner unity, nothing from without clinging to the authentic man, when you find yourself wholly true to your essential nature, wholly that only veritable Light which is not measured by space, not narrowed to any circumscribed form nor again diffused as a thing void of term, but ever unmeasurable as something greater than all measure and more than all quantity—when you perceive that you have grown to this, you are now become vision itself: now call up all your confidence, strike forward yet a step—you need a guide no longer—strain, and SEE.
+--- 21975734
+>>21969614
+I masturbate to drag queens and seehte about cartoon women, we are not the same
+--- 21975747
+>>21975646
+ok so you feel bad about being socially isolated and that's good. But specifically you have FOMO, which is i guess missing out on something you've seen in a movie or TV-show? But that is big cringe, in IRL plenty of people have disillusioning, demoralizing or even traumatizing circumstances no matter what age they are, or what's worse circumstances that ought to have been that, like if they bullied someone who ended up suiciding but they are still as nostalgic as anyone else, or they might have ended up getting addicted to hard drugs pretty much as a pretty direct result of their peer-group environment. And this kind of things are bound to become very common if you treat any young peer-group as being above any criticism and retaining the means to a fruitful life-experience.
+--- 21975748
+>>21975731
+This is beautiful stuff. Saved.
+--- 21975775
+>>21975747
+So basically you're saying I shouldn't worry about what others are doing and instead focus on myself through meditation?
+--- 21975796
+>>21975775
+I just think everyone needs to, while not necessarily being selfish or autistic, should at least acknowledge themselves, and interprete their life and times according to themselves.
+--- 21975924
+>>21975715
+I agree with all of that but that’s not really what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about the sort of biography you inadvertently build for yourself in your 20s and if you manage to figure out what you want by 30 whether it aligns with that.
+--- 21975933
+>>21975725
+Wait so you’re 20? This thread is about people in their 30s? Of course your plans have changed at 20.
+--- 21976066
+>>21975924
+I'll give you that, the lived experiences you miss out on can't be given back, but that doesn't mean your life has to be at a dead end. There's always what tomorrow will bring.
+My point was about the original post I responded to of the guy bitching about muh back in muh 30s, which can also be fixed 9/10 times through excercise and lifestyle changes
+--- 21976113
+>>21976066
+I totally agree it’s not a dead end but that doesn’t mean it’s going to be what you most want.
+--- 21976126
+>>21970237
+>>bad knee (unironically gets worse in cold/humid weather, like some sort of New England sailor of the 1880's)
+Same, but in my shoulder. Happened today and I couldn't cope without a pain killer.
+--- 21976263
+>>21975683
+One of the best decisions I've made in my early twenties is to stop hanging out with the people you're describing i.e. normies/narcissists. While my decision led me into social isolation, which is difficult to deal with, I have grown so much as a person, understand people better, understand myself better, living more truthfully, authentically, compassionately and with a greater appreciation of life; and now, after ~ 1 year of growing I am starting to meet people who have a similar disposition which allow each other to be authentic and candid. I suspect that the friend who regrets not being socially outgoing is not outgoing because he doesn't feel safe to be authentic and open to normies, because normies are only interested in him for their own interests, their own pleasures. They don't really care about you.
+
+That is all to say that in my experience, just going out and socialising is not going to fulfill someone who partakes in the "grotesque" lifestyle of staying inside and watching tv on the weekends. The sad thing is, the alternative that normies propose is far more disgusting and depraved, and they're too blind, too narcissistic, too desperate fill the inner void to know what they're doing.
+--- 21976271
+>>21976263
+This is something I needed to hear and really confirms a few things I've been thinking about myself. Thank you for sharing and it's good to hear you've been able to work on yourself and grow as a person.
+--- 21976275
+>>21969486 (OP)
+this is like half of novels period, do you read
+--- 21976312
+>>21976263
+I did this too, but my fate or circumstance I never managed to find new crowds to run in. I don’t think I made a single friend in my late twenties, and met exactly two women that were potential dates.
+--- 21976353
+i love being young
+--- 21976361
+i hate being old
+--- 21976370
+>>21976271
+I'm happy to be of help :)
+
+I think it's important to add that didn't get to this point out of shear will. I've been blessed with great resources and people which not everybody can access. I have a amazing transpersonal therapist who's been guiding me along the journey and been there before herself. I highly recommend transpersonal therapy rather than clinical therapy or even pure psychoanalysis, since it's less about diagnosing, analysing and treating and more about uncovering one's innate creativity, authenticity and higher levels of consciousness. 
+
+If you can't access that right now there's some great books which have helped me, and here I'll name just a few of my favourites. Spacecruiser Inquiry by AH Almaas provides and excellent introduction of the Diamond Approach, a great tool for helping one discover higher levels of consciousness and self-awareness, and also to understand some of the filters which block these experiences. To understand the filters I really like CPTSD by Pete Walker and SWS by Byron Brown, great works on how our formative years limit our understanding of reality. Last but not least, The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists by Eleanor Payson is a profound, eye-opening read which proposes that at the core of narcissism is the lack of a sense of self. It exposes the ubiquity of narcissism and the many forms it takes, and providing advice on how to navigate the narcissists in our lives. These are just some of the many resources out there, and I'm sure you'll find your own. And that's not to mention all the great literature and other art forms which enrich our lives and often grapple with the same big questions and issues that you'll encounter as you grow.
+
+Also, just to say that growing takes a lot of time, and there will be wild ups and downs along the way. As Pete Walker says, it's a two steps forward, one step back process, but it is very rewarding.
+--- 21976374
+>>21969486 (OP)
+Caesar was 33 when he wept in front of that statue of Alexander and resolved to do great deeds. Maybe read his writings.
+
+>>21969514
+I guarantee your friend's father wasn't involved in his upbringing much if at all. Anti-social men are the products of overbearing and single mothers. They are always eaten alive later in life by mortal hunger and regret.
+
+You're only alive briefly. You're young for even less. In the name of god, go and intercourse with women.
+--- 21976385
+>>21976374
+>Anti-social men are the products of overbearing and single mothers
+
+holy shit, do you know why?
+--- 21976394
+>>21975154
+>>21970237
+>How do people still believe this made up bullshit?
+The modern world exaggerates the difficulty of the past in order to better justify itself. Retards like that anon parrot and regurgitate these phrases that circulate all throughout western society to convince each other we are the light and the past is darkness, blind to the fact that the only people who need to engage in such desperate coping mechanisms must be living deeply unnatural and unhealthy lives.
+
+The fact is once you got past infant mortality many people lived long lives. Bone records prove it, you see people living to be 60, 70, 80, and they were in fact much stronger and healthier than modern people at those age as evidenced by examination of their bones. 
+
+>>21970226
+>30s and 40s definitely are prime for a man but you don’t want to be just starting in your 30s. Men have to do things, and ideally, you’re doing in your 30s something you started or set yourself up for in your 20s. Once you turn 30, something changes and it suddenly feels like it’s too late to start, probably because there aren’t many historical examples that have done this that you can look up to.
+This anon is wise. If you don't have a good skilled career at 30 you won't have it until 40, at which point you're extremely far behind. It's humiliating and painful to lack the capital, social and economic, that this entails. And this is becoming increasingly common in western man, and in particular those who frequent this website. People live lives of complete delusion and capitulation until they are finally woken up by a finger of death's grip, the irrefutable realization of age creeping up on them. And those are the lucky ones. Many such people never wake up, they die in their sleep upright and with eyes open.
+--- 21976399
+>>21976374
+>Anti-social men are the products of overbearing and single mothers. They are always eaten alive later in life by mortal hunger and regret.
+This is fucking crushing because it's true. Dad was "around" but more in the abusive-alcoholic and emotionally removed way. Mom to this day continues to coddle me and it's severely hampered my development.
+>>21976370
+Thank you again, I've saved this and will go back through and do some research on transpersonal therapy. This has been immensely helpful.
+--- 21976401
+>>21969578
+There’s more to life but it can still be a beneficial part of life to a young man who has not built a social life and needs to lose his inhibitions that are preventing him from getting himself out there.
+--- 21976407
+>>21976385
+This is basic psychology, what do you think the Oedipal complex is? It isn't a literal desire to fuck your mother, it's a lack of separation and development from your mother-child relationship. Of course you remain a fucking child if you never leave your mother's bed. And it is precisely father's in the human hierarchy who encourage children to be outgoing while mother's seek to shelter them.
+--- 21976418
+>>21970237
+Every morning I break my legs, and every afternoon I break my arms. At night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep
+--- 21976422
+>>21976385
+If you can put aside whatever meme preconceptions you have and actually listen to some of Peterson before he fried his brain on benzos, he makes some nice points about this.
+
+https://youtu.be/50FbeazFkgs?t=19 [Embed]
+--- 21976424
+>>21976407
+i have nothing but pure hatred towards my own mom, it´s unfiltered rage towards her
+
+i always try to challenge myself and take risks (even social risks)
+
+do you think im on the right track?
+--- 21976436
+>>21976422
+>>21976407
+How do you go about rectifying such a horrible situation caused by your own mother? I've hated her for some years but have come to the understanding she didn't have any control over it.
+--- 21976446
+>>21976424
+>i have nothing but pure hatred towards my own mom
+>do you think im on the right track
+yeah, dude. golden.
+--- 21976468
+>>21976424
+>>21976436
+If you lay all the blame for your situation on your mother what's to stop her from blaming her parents in turn?
+--- 21976476
+>>21976468
+the difference is that i´m not a narcissistic toxic person like her even though i was treated way worse compared to what she suffered in her life before she had me
+--- 21976626
+>>21976476
+How do you know what her life was like? Can you even give an example of how you're so badly treated? Most guys who sound like this are overreacting over nothing.
+--- 21976627
+>>21976476
+You don’t have kids to be a toxic narcissist to yet.
+--- 21976637
+>>21976394
+That’s not what I said. I wasn’t saying anons have to be careerists before 30. What I said was that they want to find some sort of pursuit that calls them and make some progress on it before they’re 30. For example, a writer will have ideally published a bit of something before 30. I don’t care if he has like a career before he’s 30.
+--- 21976641
+>>21976626
+>Can you even give an example of how you're so badly treated?
+
+don´t get me started, she didn´t treat me badly, she literally tortured me as a kid (physical and psychological) and i couldn´t do a thing about it, my passive father never had the balls to go against my mom, it was fucking hell
+
+>>21976627
+i don´t want kids
+--- 21976645
+>>21976374
+Julius Caesar also spent his 20s in military service, bringing pirates to justice, delivering populist speeches, and doing legal advocacy. By the time he wept in front of that statue, he had done quite a lot. As much as I would like to think he was unremarkable until 33, that’s not the case. Meanwhile, your typical 30 something today will have maybe graduated from college and held a job. 
+
+Sulla, as best I can tell, was unremarkable until he was 30.
+--- 21976652
+>>21976626
+>>21976627
+I'm not him and I don't know who either of you two is but having an overbearing mother honestly is one of the worst things that can possibly happen to you as a man.
+>Can you even give an example of how you're so badly treated?
+You are an extension of the mother. The umbilical cord is still metaphysically attached. She does everything for you: cuts your food up, cleans your clothes, cooks your meals, buys everything you need, cleans your room, etc. It's heaven on paper except when you realize it's her narcissism that is infantilizing you and keeping you from developing as an adult. You are helpless and things are fucked before you even realize it. On top of that, that kind of mother will invade your privacy in everything, asking about your relationships, whom you're hanging out with, where you're going, what you're doing. She will get angry at you for wanting to leave; she will be emotionally incestuous by complaining to you about all her issues. In short, you have absolutely no idea what it is to have an overbearing mother and should shut the fuck up now.
+>Most guys who sound like this are overreacting over nothing.
+I really hope all of your atoms are split indefinitely and infinitely and steeped in hellfire for eternity.
+--- 21976656
+>>21976641
+Just give 1 specific example, we're interested.
+--- 21976676
+>>21975237
+and then you woke up because everyone was clapping
+
+so many retards replying to rage bait
+--- 21976677
+>>21969588
+>make the most of the time you do have
+>reading good and interesting novels
+this board
+--- 21976680
+>>21976676
+This. Rage-bait is such a great way to put it.
+--- 21976681
+>>21976652
+>I really hope all of your atoms are split indefinitely and infinitely and steeped in hellfire for eternity.
+can't imagine why someone might think you're overreacting
+--- 21976708
+>>21976656
+she deliberately used to hit me over minor things, but she was clever, she never hit my arms, but the parts with you can easily cover with clothes, before that she used to gave me a lengthy speech about why i should be punished in order to infuse me with fear from the get go
+
+that i was going to be a failure in life, in the streets with nothing, i was basically afraid of leaving after school because i know what was coming for me
+
+all the while my coward father acted like nothing happened
+--- 21976766
+>>21976652
+>have a piece of shit mother and father, do terrible things in childhood and they try to make up for them later
+>they were separate
+>most of the adolescent years spent with single mom due to classic bias towards women for custody
+>the opposite of overbearing, mother is uncaring and indifferent to most things
+>never learned how to socialize proper
+>autistic as fuck
+>teenage years spent with father
+>he's abusive in his own ways
+>he died
+>a mess but I know how to do things since I never had anything done for me or handed to me
+>still fucked up due to mother never having been a real mother to me
+Overbearing is one thing, and I'm sure it is awful, but I think it may be worse to be emotionally dead, detached from everything and everyone and wary and even downright terrified of women due to witnessing their wicked ways from a younger age. I always have wanted kids but I don't think I'll be able to have any at this rate, I can't even speak to women. I'm a pathetic excuse of a man, anxiety ridden failure.
+--- 21976783
+>>21976676
+>>21976680
+I wish this was rage bait. It's not, it's reality.
+--- 21976790
+Yep, 25yo here, never been to a party, never done drugs, never had sex, never drank alcohol. kill me
+--- 21976804
+>>21969501
+>>21969486 (OP)
+>>21969514
+In terms of potential; youth is feminine, old age is masculine. Men contain both x and y chromosomes, so when a boy and a girl both hit the wall, the woman starts to shrivel and become decrepit, whereas the boy starts to become a man and begin the second phase of his existence (a phase which, for women, is typically spent occupied for creating new life.)
+It's fitting that people are so obsessed with youth, because civilization has become gynarchy. So really people are obsessed with being feminine, and gay, being objects of visual consumption for the future. Making 'memories' instead of things (like babies), which is equivalent to habituating neural pathways toward the basest forms of consumption, dopamine slaves, oxytocin cucks, etc.
+--- 21976812
+>>21976766
+Yes, I hear you on a few of these things. Socializing went out the window for me because my mother wouldn't let anyone over or let me have a sleepover at someone else's house in order to protect me. As I said before I used to hate both my parents but now that I'm calmer and more reflective I can see why each came to be such horrible people and I'm working on forgiving them, if only so I can move forward with my life. I also can't deal with women and I'm extremely passive and timid. I've worked on being less awkward but it's a battle every day and I still feel like a failure.
+>>21976790
+Not doing drugs or alcohol is really a good thing. Even partying is bad. And at some point I'll stop caring about sex at all .
+--- 21976839
+>>21976812
+I can't even go somewhere and order food without hyping myself up. Eye contact is forced and I can't hold it longer than a few seconds. I always study everything else on someone. I hate this fucking existence, some days I don't even leave my room.
+--- 21976865
+>>21976839
+I completely get it. I'm a mess in any situation that's not preplanned and even then I'll still fuck up if I'm just not in the mood or don't have enough energy. I'm getting better at ordering food at places but phone calls about apartments are still basically the worst and my slight stutter and rapid speech have made me want to kill myself. The only thing that gives me some sense of purpose is the fact that things are slightly improving and I'm learning also to not give a fuck. I'm also at the same time extremely apathetic and lazy but I'm not entirely consumed by hell.
+--- 21976874
+>>21976804
+
+Based and refreshing.
+--- 21976910
+>>21976865
+Dunno. at my age it's tiresome to see all my self improvement efforts have basically amounted to nothing and I feel like I've even gotten worse in some respects. I'm never gonna find a woman to put up with my autistic ass, I can't even talk to one if I did find her.
+--- 21976921
+I wasted my prime years. Smoked pot, was depressed, spent all my time in shitty jobs. Now I'm 33 making $75k a year, traveling all around, banging chicks, and writing novels in my spare time. Age aint' shit.
+--- 21976954
+>>21976921
+But when did you make that change?
+--- 21976971
+>>21976954
+I made the age at the age of 30.
+
+I don't understand this weird superstitious attitude people in their 20s have. As if life ends after 29. No offense to you. I don't know what your opinions are. But honestly? People think that life somehow just stops at 30, as if you're gonna drop dead as soon as you grow your first gray hair. It's nonsense.
+--- 21976982
+>>21976971
+I don’t think life stops at 30. I do think your life can always get better at any age, certainly at 30. I also think there are few examples from history of people that ever got really remarkable at a thing that they didn’t start before 30, and I also think that if you don’t find your calling in life before 30 it can easily feel like you just don’t have one.
+--- 21976988
+>>21976982
+>I also think there are few examples from history of people that ever got really remarkable at a thing that they didn’t start before 30
+
+LOL wtf am I reading? Tolkien published all his Middle Earth stuff in his 50s. Wittgenstein only published one book while he was alive; his main book was POSTHUMOUSLY published. Scientists tend peak young, but humanities types peak when they're older. And there are plenty of exceptions among scientists.
+
+And why do you need to be "significant in history" anyway? Most significant historical figures were humble enough not to care -- the really egotistical ones are the exception. Just focus on doing something you ENJOY, man!
+--- 21977017
+>>21969501
+>Wouldnt 30s or 40s be a man's prime.
+only if you didnt waste your 20s and have something to show for yourself
+--- 21977079
+>>21975646
+>5 years
+you are like a little babby
+--- 21977084
+>>21969486 (OP)
+
+This is about a deformed NEET who has spent thirty years living in the crawlspace, banished there out of embarrassment by parents who are long since dead (but he does not realize this).
+
+https://alexbeyman.substack.com/p/under-the-floorboards
+--- 21977127
+>>21974709
+The typical college graduate in 2020 is a woman majoring in psychology. The people considering going to college vs going into trades are people considering practical income. I really hope that all the people who pick trades over college are exclusively people with sub-3.0 GPAs from high school, because it would be tragic to waste even a moderate intellect on not going to college.
+>t. set for life with a college degree from 2018

lit/21969637.txt

@@ -74,3 +74,272 @@ The Joyous Science by Friedrich Nietzsche
 --- 21972241
 >>21972236
 Forgot pic
+--- 21973442
+>>21972236
+Surely you mean the Gay Science
+--- 21973489
+>>21969637 (OP)
+1. Nope
+2. Fagles
+3. Stoner by John Williams
+--- 21973512
+>>21969637 (OP)
+1. No
+2. Whichever translation I can find on libgen
+3. I'm not sure yet, as I only started reading recently, mostly as a form of self-improvement. I'm currently finishing up Moby Dick as per some recommendations from anons here.
+--- 21973594
+>>21969637 (OP)
+1. Only parts of the Iliad and Odyssey that I needed in high school
+2. translation to my native
+3. Brothers K and Stoner
+--- 21973712
+>>21970367
+based gif
+--- 21973848
+>>21969637 (OP)
+1. Yes, the Illiad and the Odyssey, Fagles translation. 
+2. going to try to slog through Pope this time
+3. Brideshead Revisited nohomo
+--- 21973869
+>>21972241
+>”he who strikes from worlds away” from Fagles becomes “king who smites from afar”
+
+It kind of looks like pretentious trash to be honest
+--- 21974280
+>>21973442
+Nah senpai, I would not read a gay book.
+--- 21974288
+>>21973512
+What do you think of Moby Dick so far?
+--- 21974325
+>>21972241
+This is unreadable.
+--- 21974623
+1. The Odyssey 
+2. Lattimore 
+3. Crime and Punishment
+--- 21974858
+1. No, but I watched the movie
+2. Lattimore pleb feels
+3. Too many to choose. I read a lot of philosophy, but excluding that my favourite writers are probably Melville, Borges, and Mishima
+--- 21974949
+>>21974325
+With no offense meant, if you really think so, you should probably read a translation to your native language instead. The pic is not at all difficult to read, and many translations are much, much less accessible. Personally I found it very pleasant, and my english skills are pretty basic.
+--- 21974963
+>>21969637 (OP)
+1. not your business, old man
+2. not your business, old man
+3. not your business, old man
+I will join in reading THOUGH
+--- 21975003
+>>21974949
+NTA, but it doesn't sound poetic like the King James Bible.
+--- 21975017
+>>21969637 (OP)
+>1. Have you my works before?
+the odyssey and iliad yes
+>2. Which translation will you be using? (if it's not Homeric Greek then you're a certified pseud)
+penguin classics most likely
+>3. What is your favorite book?
+maybe The Plague - Albert Camus or technically not one book The complete works of Arthur Miller particularly The Price
+--- 21975159
+>>21969637 (OP)
+
+I’ll join you OP. Some guy on /qst/ ran a pretty good quest based on the Iliad recently and now I want to read the original.
+
+1. Never read ‘em before.
+2. No preference, whatever you recommend to someone who is essentially an illiterate.
+3. No idea, I haven’t basically haven’t read something other than an article or scientific publication in 5 years or more.
+--- 21975275
+Illiad is gay, the Odyssey is better
+Patroclus and Achilles were fucking btw
+--- 21975991
+>>21975275
+No, Achilles heart was for Briseis and Briseis alone
+--- 21976040
+I recently read all of Aesop. Is there much overlap between Aesop and Homer?
+--- 21976059
+>>21969637 (OP)
+1. yes, more of an odyssey fag myself
+2 fitzgerald ftw!
+3 blood meridian
+--- 21976073
+>>21974325
+t not dear to the Gods
+--- 21976091
+>>21975991
+>Briseis gets taken from him
+>drown in boi pussy
+>Briseis is returned to him
+>remain drowned in boi pussy
+>boi pussy dies
+>go on maniacal rampage murdering people who beg for their lies and try to take the walls of troy by yourself
+>give away a large portion of your wealth at the funeral games honoring boy pussi
+>literally waste weeks defiling the body of the hero who killed your boi pussy
+uhhh heterosexual bros...
+--- 21976095
+>>21976091
+You're such a faggot bro. Name one page where Achilles does something involving gay sex
+--- 21976098
+>>21976095
+I just told you, it's the part where Agamemnon takes his woman and he goes back to sulk in his boy pussy (ie does nothing like a bitch) but the minute someone hurts his boy pussy (ie his true love) he goes ballistic
+It's ok to be retarded and it's still ok to read these classics even though you don't understand them, but being rude to someone above your intellect on 4channel is not acceptable
+--- 21976106
+>>21969637 (OP)
+>have you my works before?
+Nice English buddy boy also yes I will be reading Loeb classic translation by at murray and my favorite book is the last days of Socrates
+--- 21976120
+>1. Have you my works before?
+The Odyssey makes an incredible beach read
+>2. Which translation will you be using? (if it's not Homeric Greek then you're a certified pseud)
+Probably Fagles if I participate
+>3. What is your favorite book?
+Fiction? Gotta be Moby Dick. Otherwise, Meditations on the Tarot. Excluding the Bible, of course, my favorite book of which is the Gospel of John.
+>If you don't plan on joining us, then why don't you look me in the eye and tell me your excuse; it better be good.
+I'll think about it. I already have several books in rotation. It's going to be a very busy month for me, and I already said I'd participate in that other anon's writing challenge. I may try to participate but not follow the timeline exactly.
+--- 21976216
+>>21976106
+>Uses a run-on sentence without punctuation to insult another anon's English.
+--- 21976224
+>>21976120
+>Meditations on the Tarot
+What's the deal with this book? Saw Pope Benedict had it on his desk. I tried to start it, but then stopped. Don't remember why. Mind giving me a QRD on why it's your favorite non-fic outside the Bible?
+--- 21976234
+>>21975003
+That's what I meant. I understood what it was saying, but it was unreadable in the same way that F. Gardener is unreadable. It's just F-tier prose.
+--- 21976562
+>>21976098
+Dumbas
+--- 21976586
+>>21969637 (OP)
+>1. Have you my works before?
+Only the Iliad but I stopped in the middle. It was Verity's translation. Nothing against the book, I just found the combat segments too tedious and this was during exams period.
+>2. Which translation will you be using? (if it's not Homeric Greek then you're a certified pseud)
+If I join this group, I'll go with Fitzgerald's translation (I have both Homeric works in Everyman's Library editions). I like the texture of his writing.
+>3. What is your favorite book?
+I don't know. Probably something by Borges or Pessoa.
+--- 21976617
+>>21976224
+>Saw Pope Benedict had it on his desk
+It was St. John Paul II, but there is a laudatory afterword by Hans Urs von Balthazar, whom I have heard was one of Benedict's favorite theologians of all time.
+>Mind giving me a QRD on why it's your favorite non-fic outside the Bible?
+I started reading this book at a time when I had long been frequently driven nearly suicidal by the pessimism of people like Schopenhauer and (especially) Zapffe, but I was at the same time nursing three fledgling curiosities: Neoplatonism; Christianity, including but not limited to the Gnostic heresies; and utterly anti-Christian occultism like that of Aleister Crowley. This book beautifully synthesized all these budding interests in a way that finally gave me an immediate and absolute confidence that the world is not fundamentally evil and that life is worth celebrating. It introduced me to the Saints, not as an idea, but as friends. It showed me what it means to cultivate a healthy and constructive esoteric spirituality and why such a one must be united with and subservient to the exoteric Tradition. It showed me the beauty of the Sacraments, which is part of the reason I am now engaged to be married, and part of the reason my fiancée and I are preparing to start RCIA.
+The title really doesn't give you any sense of the book's scope. It never once mentions the practice of cartomancy commonly associated with the Tarot. It uses the Major Arcana of the Tarot as a point of entry into gentle, graceful, but extremely compelling meditations on a wide variety of spiritual matters. I have never been sadder to finish a book, because by the end the author had long since begun to feel like a personal friend.
+--- 21976657
+>>21976617
+Holy based. And some say that books can't change your life. All the best, brother.
+--- 21976714
+>>21976657
+Thanks. All the best to you.
+--- 21976726
+>>21976617
+I just got 1000x more than I bargained for with that QRD. My wife and I just finished RCIA. Easter vigil was the best day of our lives. Best of luck on your own journey through it. Since you’re more than a bit familiar with saints at this point, do you have a confirmation Saint in mind?
+--- 21976777
+>>21976726
+That's great to hear. Best of luck to the two of you. I'm very excited for it all. I'm not quite sure about a confirmation saint yet. I like the idea of choosing a saint who struggled with vices similar to your own. If I do that, St. Augustine could be a good choice, since I have an ongoing battle against lust. It doesn't hurt that he gave us so much great writing either.
+Who did you choose? Do you have any suggestions for deciding?
+--- 21976801
+>>21976777
+Very glad to hear your story by the way and will be praying for you and your fiancée as you seek God.
+
+Someone gave me the advice of choosing a Saint more for virtue than for vice. That was the best advice I was given. Prior to that I was set to pick St. Thomas because I struggle with doubt. Instead I picked St. Frances de Sales due to his virtues. I’ll name a few, trying to be helpful, not indulgent. I have a Calvinist anti-Catholic background, Francis’s ministry was to Calvinists. I often lose sight of the fact that the main point is to admire and love God in the beatific vision and to love others along the way (Francis’s two most famous books are practical handbooks to doing this)—I instead get distracted by attempting to accumulate theology and wisdom into my brain and conflating that with devotion to God. I must say I’m glad I chose based on virtue rather than vice. Since the moment I started reading St. Francis, I’ve just been in awe of him, and I feel that awe when I pray. I can’t say the same for my relationship with St. Thomas, though he is great. All that to say, I would encourage you to pick a Saint that feels like an older brother—a combination of your closest friend, and a mentor that can teach you lots. If Augustine is all that, in addition to having had vices like yours, then amazing. I hope you feel about your Saint the way you feel about the man that wrote Meditations on the Tarot.
+
+And on the lust piece, I hope it is encouraging to know that it gets much easier when you have the tools of confession and the grace of the Eucharist. Fighting lust outside of the church felt like trying to build a house without a hammer and nails, and now that I’m in the church, the tools that God gave us to be saintly are all at your disposal, and you can only look back and laugh at trying to build a house without hammer and nails.
+
+Sorry for the long post, especially since this is an Iliad thread. Are you going through RCIA to discern if you really believe this is true, or are you going through committed from the start (I was the former)?
+--- 21976829
+>>21969637 (OP)
+book is just a catalogue of who killed who separated by last minute "let me pull a magic power out of my ass cuz im a god and i need to save my favorite human" magic tricks that destroy all the suspense, doesn't even cover the trojan horse or how the war ended, overrated POS
+--- 21976843
+>>21976829
+Have you ever considered that it’s an interesting and intentional choice that he doesn’t cover the origin of the war or the horse? Imagine writing a book on WW2, but it’s focused on three days of two American generals beefing and one of those American generals costing the US greatly. That’d be an interesting choice, no? Even if it didn’t cover the nuke?
+--- 21976860
+>>21969972
+>Not believing this post was by Homer
+--- 21976869
+>>21976860
+I unironically think it takes a stupid person to take the effort to say, in a non-humorous way, that he doesn’t believe that post was made by Homer. Wow, you really exposed OP anon.
+--- 21976873
+>>21976801
+>Very glad to hear your story by the way and will be praying for you and your fiancée as you seek God.
+That's wonderful, thank you.
+>Someone gave me the advice of choosing a Saint more for virtue than for vice.
+Interesting, I'll think about this. It reminds me of another piece of advice I've heard: that it is better to direct our efforts towards the positive (doing good) than the negative (avoiding evil), and that by focusing on doing good we may come to avoid evil almost automatically.
+>I would encourage you to pick a Saint that feels like an older brother—a combination of your closest friend, and a mentor that can teach you lots.
+That's a great image. I'll keep this in mind as I continue seeking my Saint.
+>And on the lust piece, I hope it is encouraging to know that it gets much easier when you have the tools of confession and the grace of the Eucharist.
+That is very comforting.
+>Are you going through RCIA to discern if you really believe this is true, or are you going through committed from the start (I was the former)?
+I am pretty much committed, but I'm still looking forward to the learning experience and getting to know some of the people at my parish better. I'm not sure if my fiancée is at quite the same confidence level, but I'm glad she's interested at the least, and I'm excited to be going through it together with her whatever she decides.
+I'm glad you found a Saint who is such a good spiritual guide for you. Thank you anon, sincerely, I didn't come into this thread expecting to get such important advice. I'll be praying for you and your wife and your journey together. Peace to you both.
+--- 21976891
+>>21971744
+>search for Batrachomyomachia
+>Homer's own parody of the illiad, a frog accidentally drowns a mouse and frogs and mice go to war
+>the fight is meaningless and it pokes fun at war and the epic genre
+
+Sounds comfy, thanks anon will read
+--- 21976907
+>>21976873
+> It reminds me of another piece of advice I've heard: that it is better to direct our efforts towards the positive (doing good) than the negative (avoiding evil), and that by focusing on doing good we may come to avoid evil almost automatically.
+Yes! Reminds me of the race in Hebrews 12:1. If you’re running the race, the weights will make themselves known. So just run.
+
+> I'm not sure if my fiancée is at quite the same confidence level, but I'm glad she's interested
+I know you didn’t ask, but the last thing I’ll share is a piece of advice that gave me much freedom when I was in her spot. I was very troubled going through RCIA because I felt like I needed to achieve 100% certainty that Catholicism is true. The pressure was released when someone told me that a thing is worth pursuing, even if you’re just more sure that it’s true than anything else. While there’s definitely no sense in becoming Catholic if you’re convinced that something else is more likely to be true; there’s also no sense in kicking the can down the road if it’s the most true thing you’ve encountered. This is not official church teaching of course, but just some ramblings from someone that struggles with doubt.
+
+Once again, I’ll keep you both in my prayers. Meditations on the Tarot is back at the top of my list thanks to you, very much looking forward to it.
+--- 21976922
+>>21976869
+--- 21976935
+>>21976891
+Holy…, how have I never heard of this
+--- 21976960
+>>21976098
+I know you have no interest in changing your coomer opinion this is just for truthbros
+
+It wasn't about boypussy. That was a revisionist sentiment shared and popularised by folks such as Plato - the ugly stepsister of Aristotle & Socrates - hundreds of years after Homer's writings, the sentiment grew stronger and stronger as Greece continued its path into getting assraped into oblivion. It's not a good idea to promote a gay as the best warrior your civ can muster, nor a gay bond as the rope that forms the basis for your civilization's military success.
+
+t. A Gay bro who would die for boypussy
+--- 21976978
+>>21976935
+It was like 30 pages, omg hilarious. Recommend, thanks anons. 
+
+>even snibbedi snabs make an appearance
+--- 21976980
+>>21976907
+>The pressure was released when someone told me that a thing is worth pursuing, even if you’re just more sure that it’s true than anything else.
+That's a good point, and I think I could benefit from keeping it in mind too.
+I hope you enjoy the book. Maybe we'll end up discussing it again sometime. All the best, my friend.
+--- 21976986
+>>21976960
+On the contrast I would be absolutely open to changing my mind, however it seems to me the facts make it clear.
+Are you trying to argue that the written works of Homer were altered in some way by Plato? Or do you believe the idea that Achilles and Patrokles are lovers originated with Plato? A ridiculous claim as the story as written by Homer makes it clear that Achilles' love for Patrokles is vastly superior to his affection for Briseis. If you argue that Plato changed the story to introduce his own homosexual agenda I would need some evidence to support that claim. I have always been under the impression that the text of the iliad out dates Plato by centuries but I could be mistaken.
+--- 21977000
+>>21976986
+On the contrast? Wtf are you some euro?
+--- 21977063
+>1
+No
+>2
+Fagles
+>3
+Crying of Lot 49
+--- 21977103
+>>21976986
+My love for my brother is vastly to superior to that I have for the thot that I'm fuckin right now. Does this make me gay? Think, Homer, think!
+--- 21977123
+>>21977103
+Is Patrokoles son of Peleus? Or do you feel extreme love for men who are not your brother? Would you feel extreme about your lover? If Briseis is Achille's love why is it that he doesn't seem to care about loosing her? He clearly won't cooperate with Agamemnon who took her from him, but he doesn't seem to be fundamentally bothered by it. Do recognize that Menelaus on the other hand was so upset by the rape of Helen he started this whole mess to begin with. Furthermore when Menelaus is grievously wounded the response from Agamemnon (Who sees his brother in mortal danger) is far short of the wrath put on by Achilles when his love is taken from him.
+So, in the iliad we see that extreme action is taken by those who see their erotic love being stolen from them but not their fraternal or platonic loves.
+The only force that can move a man of Achilles or Menelaus stature (a hero) is erotic love, not friendship, but love. Since Achilles is only moved by the loss of Patrokles they must be lovers.
+--- 21977128
+>>21977123
+Sickly hands typed this post. You couldn't be wronger if you tried fren.
+--- 21977181
+>>21976040
+I'm curious how much of Homer's Iliad and Odyssey cross over with other famous Greek works such as the plays by Sophocles and the fables by Aesop.
+
+Interestingly I am familiar with tons of non Greek works that tie into these epic poems but not any other actual Greek works.
+--- 21977273
+>>21975159
+Probably the easiest to read is the Penguin Classics translation by E.V. Rieu

lit/21969693.txt

@@ -269,3 +269,67 @@ New reader, try me:
 >The Count of Monte Cristo
 >The Iliad 
 >Catch-22
+--- 21973073
+>Brideshead Revisited
+>Diary of a Country Priest
+>The Brothers Karamazov
+>Anna Karenina
+>Hamlet
+--- 21973393
+>Artículos de costumbres: by Mariano José de Larra
+>Operette Morali
+>Les Deux Étendards
+>New Arabian Nights
+>The Man Who Was Thursday
+--- 21974012
+>>21972516
+standard high quality fare. a respectable selection
+>>21972653
+solid list, but a bit boring
+>>21973073
+lofty. big braned. you insist upon yrself.
+>>21973393
+a true student of the craft
+--- 21974035
+>The Sun Also Rises
+>Ficciones
+>The Lord of the Rings
+>The Long Goodbye
+>The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
+--- 21974047
+Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
+Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
+Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
+Industrial Society and Its Future
+Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
+--- 21974048
+>>21974012
+hey, i like the effort, give me a verdict too >>21971746
+--- 21974087
+>>21972559
+>The Dosto fanboy thinks he has a leg to stand on
+Heh, nah.
+--- 21974109
+I don't read, I already know everything
+--- 21975173
+>Phenomenology of Spirit
+>Critique of Pure Reason
+>Being and Time
+>Being and Nothingness
+>Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
+--- 21975186
+>>21969693 (OP)
+>A Game of Thrones
+>A Clash of Kings
+>A Storm of Swords
+>A Feast for Crows
+>A Dance with Dragons
+--- 21976357
+>>21969693 (OP)
+Having a top 5 in the first place makes you automatically a pleb.
+--- 21976684
+Crime & Punishment
+Lord of the Rings 
+Dune (1-3)
+Man and his Symbols
+Beyond Good and Evil

lit/21970168.txt

@@ -58,3 +58,150 @@ It’s a simple mystery plot with an extremely poor clue that leads to Ned’s c
 3 > 5 > 1 > 2 > 4
 Show
 1 > 3 > 4 > 2 >>> 6 > 5 > 7 > 8
+--- 21973238
+>>21970889
+>Most great books don't have satisfactory endings or the endings simply didn't even matter to the author because it would be like missing the point.
+Counterpoint : as of right now the last chapter of the story is Daenerys steamy green gooey diarrhea
+--- 21973745
+>>21972058
+
+I can see Victarion marrying Cersei then murdering her either by accident or in a fit of rage like he did his other wife and this is what will result in creating Lightbringer it also fulfils the Valonqar prophechy at the same time.
+--- 21973800
+>>21970889
+>The ending doesn't matter.
+I see this cope often. It's crazy to me, why would you read an unfinished story? The ending is the most important section of a story, it's the conclusion. When a writer starts a series, there is an unsaid agreement that he is committed to finishing it, else why write it in the first place?
+
+The legacy of the TV show is already tarnished, forgotten in the collective imagination. If the fat fuck doesn't finish this, no one will remember it.
+--- 21973853
+>>21973800
+The North Remembers
+>>21970168 (OP)
+I am halfway into this book as well and it’s poorly executed. Now I understand why he’s a TV writer.
+--- 21974986
+>>21972445
+It's low compared to second half of Clash and all of Storm. The first book is cool on first read, but on repeated readings there isn't much to pick up, becouse it is all really centered around singular mystery. Meanwhile Clash and Storm gets better on second/third reading, becouse you can see the hints, becouse they start going wider, but not too wide like Feast and Dance, where Martin overdoes it.
+But still "low point" is higher than any other current fantasy or even current books in general. ASOIAF at least does not make me embarrassed (only unintentionally embarrassing passage so far is Tyrion's and Sansa's wedding night, it was even shocking, since Martin knows what makes things embarrasing, which is proven by the intentionally embarrassing passage when Jorah kisses Daenerys). But make no mistake, Martin is no Tolkien. But still in the pile of shit that is current literature (be it fantasy or not) he is good and will be considered classic in future (this speaks more about qualities of current literature, than qualities of Martin and proves that we are disappointment to the human race).
+--- 21975158
+>>21973238
+No you absolute fucking retard, it's Kevan Lannister
+--- 21975213
+>>21971981
+Her skin would have burn marks if she was a Fire Wight, Beric Dondarrion still has his scars, she would have them too if she had actually died..
+>>21970168 (OP)
+I just want to say that the only theory that Preston Jacobs has ever made that is even remotely true is that the 3 Eyed Crow is time travelling Bran, that's the only thing that makes sense.
+
+Also, Rhaegar is, and was Azor Ahai reborn. The Nights Watch, but Jon specifically, are Light Bringer, there's other "light bringers" in other characters who will obviously help against the fight against the Others, but the fact that The Red Bitch sees "Snow" in her flames and the fact that Dany fits the prophecy too literally shows me that Dany is a red herring who will like in the show just bring destruction to the world, while Jon will be the actual hero and last Targaryen.
+
+It also makes sense for "Light Bringer"/ "Red Sword" to be Jon and the Nightswatch, as Arthur Dayne was called "Sword of the Morning", not wielder of Dawn or "wielder of sword of the morning", the sword name represents the person that wields it not the sword itself, which is why it has 2 nicknames, Light Bringer and Red Sword of Heroes, like Dawn and Arthur Dayne have.
+The Prophecy is also sexual in nature and has multiple euphemisms for sex.
+Lastly, the Nights Watch itself, and the vows they make represent the constant fight of fire/light against the huge cold/darkness in this world:
+>"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."
+
+The truth is that an egotistical, self serving, bitch like Dany could never be the actual hero of the story, it needs to be someone who also has selfish dreams but constantly restrains himself from going after them, like Jon.
+--- 21975266
+>>21975213
+Everything you said is wrong
+--- 21975268
+>>21975213
+
+Would this mean Jon is a Dayne going by your reasonsing? I like that more than him being R+L=J which seems like a huge red herring, Brandon and Ashara makes a lot more sense especially when you fit in the Azor Ahair prophechpy. 
+
+Time Traveling Bran has started to make sense to me too lately. It would explain why Bloodraven looked confused when Bran asked if he was 3ER. Maybe Bran needs to ensure he becomes the 3ER to make his strength grow, think like the Ouroborus eating its own tail sort of thing. Bran keeps going back in time as a way for his power to be stronger or something like that 
+
+Thoughts on Cold Hands potentially being the 13th Lord Commander's son with The Corpse Queen? It's largly who I think he could be
+--- 21975280
+>>21970168 (OP)
+I read these books in 2016. I've already forgotten the plot. Whenever TWOW comes out I probably won't read it because I don't remember what any of the characters are doing, nor who any of the characters are besides the major ones.
+--- 21975298
+>>21975268
+>B+A
+Absolute cringe. There's nothing supporting this theory. I just think you fuckers get off on the idea of Ned being the biggest cuckold
+--- 21975318
+>>21975268
+>Would this mean Jon is a Dayne going by your reasonsing? I like that more than him being R+L=J which seems like a huge red herring, Brandon and Ashara makes a lot more sense especially when you fit in the Azor Ahair prophechpy.
+I think there is something George is obviously hiding about the Daynes, but the show confirming R+L=J, and it having hints about it in the first 4 seasons when Martin was still working with them makes me think R+L= J is definitely true.
+--- 21975346
+>>21975318
+>I think there is something George is obviously hiding about the Daynes
+Different anon here, there is definitely something between Ned and the Daynes. Jon may not be his child but I definitely believe that he had a child with Ashara Dayne and that the child is still alive.
+--- 21975369
+>>21975346
+>>21975318
+
+Daenerys or maybe fake Aegon..Maybe the child was stillborn. The Daynes are one of my favourite houses due to a lot of the mystery and intrigue surrounding them, we don't even know what their house words are which I bet are super important. They will probably play a huge role in the upcoming War for the Dawn. Maybe if Barristan temporarily leaves Daenerys he will go to Starfall before checking out whether Aegon is legit
+--- 21975384
+>>21972058
+>Victarion Azor Ahai
+that would be by far the funniest thing George could possible do. Jaime being Azor Ahai would be 1000x times more Kino though.
+--- 21975393
+>>21975369
+Everything about the Daynes are about coverup.
+>Arthur Dayne covering up The Tower of Joy
+>Ashara Dayne's supposed suicide where they can't find the body
+>Ashara's supposed stillborn daughter (Edric never brings it up)
+>Wylla
+>Darkstar is being used as a patsy to coverup Doran's grand scheme
+It's quite obvious that this is all intentional and interconnected. If it weren't for the fact that the books are never going to finish, I would say that NedChads are about to be vindicated in the next two books big time
+--- 21975412
+>>21975384
+Victarion as Azor Ahai is the most patrician and kino thing GRRM could possibly do. Making the viking barbarian who lives only for battle one of the grand heroes of the story is certifiably genius
+--- 21975653
+>>21975369
+>Daenerys
+I would love for Dany to not be a Targaryen, and for her to realize that all her "Fire and Blood" is just her being a psycho bitch and not a real dragon, however, the fact that she is silver blonde makes it very unlikely she's Ashara + some Stark's daughter.
+
+I believe the theory that fAegon is Illyrio's + Blackfyre Woman's son, Varys is also almost certainly a Blackfyre too.
+The Blackfyres are such a large part of the history of the world, however we haven't seen it affect the main story in any obvious way, I think it's pretty obvious that fAegon and Varys are the last remaining Blackfyres so in my mind that completely disqualifies fAegon of being Ashara's son.
+
+>>21975346
+>I think there is something George is obviously hiding about the Daynes, but the show confirming R+L=J, and it having hints about it in the first 4 seasons when Martin was still working with them makes me think R+L= J is definitely true.
+I never bought into the A+B or A+N theories, as Ashara being Jon's mother is the first theory presented inside the story, so in my opinion it's an obvious red herring, but I do believe what happened to Ashara is a lie, I don't believe the baby was stillborn, however I really do not know who in the story could possibly be Ashara's baby, the only 2 options for it to be a huge reveal would be Dany or Jon, however, I seriously doubt any of them isn't a Targaryen.
+--- 21975673
+>>21972473
+What's wrong with some characters being side characters?
+--- 21975722
+>>21975653
+
+Maybe leaning more towards Jon then since everyone keeps mentioning how he "looks like a Stark" sometimes more than Ned's legit children. It'd be impressed if GRRM managed to pull the Daenerys isn't a real Targaryen(using Drogon a black dragon to symbolize this), while he makes Aegon the legit Targaryen.
+--- 21975856
+>>21970168 (OP)
+This series picked up for me pretty much immediately. I can’t believe George Martin had my ass reading these tomes back in highschool. I wasn’t an avid reader by any means at the time. I love the dialogue in the series, he really does a good job of making the series feel exciting with twists and turns and hidden meaning.
+--- 21975880
+>>21970168 (OP)
+This thread is nothing but a mummers farce, grunted nuncle as grease from bacon burnt black dripped down his pock-marked chin and over the nipples on his breastplate while beside him dwarves japed and tumbled and guzzled mulled wine and all the while the ship around them groaned like a fat man taking a shit, nearly overpowering the screeches of the bawdy wench as a fat pink mast jutted into her myrish swamp and all the while the chambermaid shit brown water onto glazed lemoncakes and the more she drank of arbor gold the more she shat and though she prayed nuncle merely smiled for didn't the sweet summer child know words are wind?
+--- 21975897
+>>21970889
+>I don't know what's the issue with leaving the series unfinished.
+have you ever read a book?
+>>21970889
+>Most great books don't have satisfactory endings or the endings simply didn't even matter to the author because it would be like missing the point.
+they can't be great books if they don't have satisfactory endings. a fiction has to end properly with every plot points and characters intersecting to reach a satisfactory ending. otherwise it's just another book with a shitty ending. what do you remember from a book? its beginning, some very specific scenes you liked during the middle, and the ending. imagine having to cope with a fat bastard fucking up a 1/3rd of your experience just because said fat bastard can't bring himself to end his own book series
+--- 21976299
+He waited to long to bring the others south. The original long night lasted a generation. There is no way it won't be a let down even if brings them south during Winds, which he probably won't. He should have had them south of the wall by book 3 or 4 at the latest.
+--- 21976304
+I think Egg is the three-eyed Raven, not Bloodraven. Bloodraven is a red herring. A Knight of The Seven Kingdom was going to lead up to Summerhall and this would be the reveal.
+--- 21976313
+>>21975653
+A+N is totally true, it just isn't A+N=J. It could be A+N=Griff.
+--- 21976479
+>>21970889
+It's fine for GOT but I really, really want Bakker to write the No God.
+--- 21976520
+>>21975158
+No, that was the epilogue, dummy
+>>21974986
+GRRM will only be remembered as a TV writer in the future
+--- 21976605
+>>21974986
+>>21976520
+>this speaks more about qualities of current literature, than qualities of Martin and proves that we are disappointment to the human race
+This is the major thing to remember. He may be remembered among fantasy fans, who say, hey, you think that modern (AI written) book is good, check out this old book by "X!" And the book's will be Martins. But that's it. He might be remembered in relation to the TV show, however. Bad ending or not. I can't speak to your other points as I am only half way through A Clash of Kings for the first time.
+--- 21976635
+>>21975280
+re-reading exists.
+--- 21976758
+>>21976635
+I'm not rereading an entire cyclopedia's worth of text just to stay current on genreslop.
+--- 21976796
+>>21976758
+>he can't read 5 books

lit/21970341.txt

@@ -16,3 +16,42 @@ I remember hating this book when I read it at age 14. The whole series went to s
 --- 21972826
 On page 580 right now....
 Wery good indeed
+--- 21973030
+>>21970341 (OP)
+One of my favorites, I don't know if it beats Drawing of the Three or Wastelands but right up there. Very fun book. 
+
+I read the series around 10 years ago and I told myself I wasn't going to re-read it until I finish every other Stephen King book, he's one of my favorites. I've read about 60 and the bastard keeps writing 2 or 3 a year, some times I feel like I can't read them as fast as he churns them out. I also feel like while his ideas kind of get worse and worse, his ability to write keeps improving as he ages. For the last 10 years or so anyways.
+--- 21973079
+Read The Gunslinger and it was terrible. Truly awful work. If King hadn’t captured the horror market (and didn’t have so many rabid fans because of that), a publisher never would have touched it. I haven’t bothered with the rest of the series as I assume it’s of equal shit quality. 
+>>21973030
+You need to read widely, reading one guy like that will give you a skewed view on what’s good and what isn’t, and believe me, he isn’t good. Competent amongst hacks maybe but that doesn’t say much.
+--- 21973193
+>>21971267
+Pretty much what I felt about Gunslinger. The last third of the book was written under too much drugs and made me want to skip the pages to escape that shit writing. The villain and his motivation is so comically absurd it's not even funny.
+The boy has less purpose than Swan has in Swan Song. 
+I like the general idea and the setting. This series might have some potential, I hope that the 1st book doesn't accurately represent the quality of the rest. Will try reading the 2nd one sometime.
+>>21973030
+Most people don't like his later works. They seem more like mass-manufactured slop - written because he's expected to write new stuff continuously, rather than written because he had a brilliant idea.
+--- 21973629
+>>21973079
+I like how he writes. I read pretty widely, maybe 10% of the books I've read over the last 10 years have been King books. A part of the reason for my autism in reading everything is that King often references other novels and characters through out his novels, and Dark Tower series he probably does this the most. One I finish all the King books I wonder how many more of those references I'll pick up. 
+
+I'll give you he's not exactly the deepest writer though, but if people didn't think he was good he wouldn't be as famous as he is. But I like the idea of finding an author you enjoy and just becoming an expert in them, I did the same with Hemmingway which isn't super impressive, but I'm also nearly finished every Haruki Murakami book. Might try it with Cormac McCarthy eventually too.
+
+>>21973193
+That's it, I don't think he gets flashes of brilliance anymore. But he's got his formula down. Later, Billy Summers, Joyland, all pretty cool books with just strong heroic male characters I quite enjoyed just doing fairly average stuff. Even before that, 11/22/63, Revival, even Under the Dome were pretty good in terms of writing although the plots weren't brilliant. He writes pretty consistently.
+
+Compare this with some of the earlier stuff, their are some pretty crap ones I'm trying to work my way through. I just finished The Talisman and holy shit that was a grind, I can't believe theirs a sequel to that I'll end up reading. King sucks at fantasy.
+--- 21973652
+>>21971267
+>>21973193
+For what it's worth, I haven't reread it yet, but I think the first book would be better after you've read the whole series. The next few are all much better, with the story being a lot less ambiguous. Furthermore, the 4th book is a masterpiece, so I would argue you owe it to yourself to at least get to it before quitting on the series. 6 and 7 it sort of goes downhill again, but I think it's worth reading it all.
+--- 21973782
+>>21970341 (OP)
+Books 1 and 4 were peak SOVL, but I enjoy the whole series. I wish it stayed tethered more to the western ambiance towards the end, but still a fun read nonetheless.
+--- 21974556
+I would probably call this the American epic.
+--- 21976172
+Are the Dark Tower comics any good? The art style is appealing to me but I imagine a large amount of comic/graphic novel adaptations suck.
+--- 21976557
+Why did the dead baby cross the road?

lit/21970822.txt

@@ -130,3 +130,67 @@ Look at who you are responding to and who he considers an authority on women. Yo
 --- 21972960
 >>21972578
 You shook my hand when we met so by proxy you jerked me off, thanks homo
+--- 21973261
+>it has a female author
+--- 21973288
+Why does this thread even exist? It has NOTHING to do with literature. Why is this board becoming so shit now? Tourists?
+--- 21973308
+>i love reading mishima and japanese literature in general
+--- 21973316
+>>21973288
+just realizing that? it's been like this for years.
+--- 21973324
+>>21973308
+Desu the last time a girl asked me what I've been reading I said Murakami and she was instantly willing to fuck.
+--- 21973340
+>>21973324
+How is murakami? Been meaning to check him out once i get done reading tanizaki's works
+--- 21973347
+>>21973340
+Airport literature for women but good at that.
+--- 21973446
+>>21973347
+Any good books to start with? Might read him to have something to talk about with women
+--- 21973448
+>>21973446
+Hard-Boiled Wonderland is the only one I'd actually consider good, it's apparently also Murakami's favorite.
+--- 21973463
+>>21973448
+Thanks for the recommendation, will check it out soon
+--- 21973537
+>>21972960
+LOL
+--- 21973916
+>>21972778
+okay :) I encourage you to gain maturity and come back when you want to have a serious discussion :D
+>>21972563
+When you’re born and raised into a society run by the will of women, how would you know any better? I was fortunate to have a good mother, and my immediate household were all men except for her. It wasn’t until my later teenage years that I saw and understood how the majority of women interact with the world
+--- 21974961
+>>21973288
+>now
+--- 21974989
+>>21974961
+What year is this from? Looks a lot like /lit/ now.
+--- 21975008
+>>21974989
+It's at least 3 years old.
+--- 21975087
+dictionaries
+--- 21975097
+>>21975008
+that last breath /lit was kino plenty of anons showed their assholes
+--- 21976434
+>>21973288
+Love and sex have been the most recurring themes in literature forever. 
+The question "what books do women believe attractive men read?" is interesting, and the question "why those books?" is even more so.
+
+However, this thread doesn't exist to ask those questions. It exists to shill an attention whore's tiktok.
+--- 21977210
+>>21970822 (OP)
+I would have already asserted that I don't read before she had the chance to open her mouth.
+--- 21977222
+>>21970822 (OP)
+Stuff about occultism and astrology.
+--- 21977223
+>>21970822 (OP)
+The sports section

lit/21971186.txt

@@ -35,3 +35,202 @@ A woman isn't capable of understanding Nietzsche, much less Evola.
 --- 21972205
 >>21971304
 Praise the Lord
+--- 21973192
+>>21971186 (OP)
+The only thing she revealed is that she didn't actually read what Evola wrote.
+--- 21973212
+>>21971799
+>>21973192
+This. Nothing of value was said.
+--- 21973215
+>>21971186 (OP)
+God I want to breed with her and make her my queen.
+--- 21973291
+>>21971186 (OP)
+she isnt wrong you know
+--- 21973381
+Atheists try to cope that their religion is nihilism with 2 ways.
+
+The first one is ''traditionalism'', ie ''everyday I want a bureaucratic daddy to tell me what do to in his fascist republic while I am pretending to be wicca witch doing magikkk in my sparetime like Evola''.
+Second, with the atheist called Nietzsche and his retarded idea to create and fight for your own values. You have to understand that Nietzsche is an atheist, a nihilist, a postmodernist which appeals to a lot of liberals and other deeply neurotic teenagers because Nietzsche is the achievement of the secular humanism which booted Christianity out of power. Nietzsche is overtly anti-christian, and it permits to all the atheist bug men to actually see themselves as the righteous resilient guy who create his own values.
+In effect trannies are the best ubermen ever: they hate to see themselves as they really are, so they change both their neurotic spirit and also their body to match the narrative of the ubermen and even better, they impose their values to non-trannies. Same thing with feminists and all the idolized minorities in Humanism.
+
+Naturally, the atheists cant know right from wrong, so their mental gymnastics about the uberman is flawed. The uberman is actually the last man: the uberman despises so much reality after seeing nihilism, that out of resentment for reality, the uberman CHOOSES to sink further in his delusion by building a narrative where he is not the last man, but actually the opposite, ie the uberman who creates his own values, ie cooming by living in own brain farts until he dies.
+
+Oh and by the way only atheists take him seriously in the first place. Atheists love him because according to them, he found a way to be nihilistic without leading to suicide. In order to avoid being called a nihilist, friedrich PUSSY nietzsche re-defined nihilism to be 'not living in the present moment', which applies to christianity.
+So now atheists dont say they are nihilistic, they say they are vitalist. And as a bonus they get to shit on christianity (their perpetual enemy that they defeated centuries ago, yet they still beat a dead horse to smugly fill up their days). You have to understand that atheists are braindead hypocrites so even when they say they are vitalist instead of nihilistic, they still remain 100% hedonistic and they still dont know what not do with their lives beyond making up self-aggrandizing narratives to feel justified for wanting to and actually doing coomming all day long.
+
+
+Whoever takes Nietzsche or Evola seriously is completely lobotomized by atheism.
+--- 21973390
+>>21973381
+As opposed to modern Christians who cope with their nihilism by adopting African refugees who impregnate their wife
+--- 21973418
+Stupid people shouldn't read Evola.
+--- 21973471
+>>21971186 (OP)
+God I can just imagine in her head the thoughts running through it like a child in an empty hall with nothing to stop them. She likely genuinely thought that the “1 Star review” she gave was devastating. All those times being berated by people more intelligent, wiser, and/or older finally gave way for her to deliver a gut shot to this book. Her neuroticism allows for any slightly critical comment to sear into her psyche leaving a brand she’ll carry for the rest of her life. No one else can see it but she’ll insist that others “touch” it, that others understand it’s impact on her life.
+--- 21973525
+>>21971211
+Weak nihilist.
+--- 21973539
+>>21971274
+cope
+>>21971799
+cope
+>>21973192
+cope
+>>21973212
+cope
+>>21973418
+cope
+>>21973471
+cope
+--- 21973558
+>>21971186 (OP)
+>1 star
+>"stupid incels hehe"
+>"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence"
+>That'll teach 'em
+--- 21973559
+Is Steve Bannon really an evola fanboy?
+--- 21973605
+>>21973381
+>traditionalism, i.e. [insert an infantile tirade that is conceptually disconnected from traditionalism]
+It's as if you're incapable of discussing actual concepts at hand, but instead prefer to drop smug one-liners that deride those concepts that you merely pretend to comprehend.
+--- 21973624
+>>21973381
+Double-digit IQ post. Stick to Harry Potter, midwit
+--- 21973639
+>>21973539
+Kys, McCuckers
+--- 21973727
+>>21971186 (OP)
+that would have been perfect if she had added a post script at the bottom saying "im trans btw"
+--- 21973743
+>>21971186 (OP)
+>learn to think for yourself! By listening to what I have to say about X book and reading this other guy who has specific opinions
+femoid moment
+--- 21973762
+>>21973539
+cope
+--- 21973779
+>>21971211
+this. just respond with "quid est veritas" and they will have nothing to say. you can't say what the truth isn't if you have no idea what it is
+--- 21973844
+>>21973471
+Someones projecting
+--- 21973912
+>>21971186 (OP)
+Based. Derivative tradfags are beyond boring, you will never live in the society your ancestors did.
+--- 21973923
+>this woman now lives rent free in the heads of dozens of incels, has taken a shit in their mind, caused them hypertension, and will never even register the existence of the entire essays of seethe being posted as a response to her opinions by ressentiment-driven slaves
+Superlatively based, based beyond reason.
+--- 21973932
+>>21973923
+the smell of inceldom oozing from this post is astounding
+she's not going to spare a single bit of pussy for you anon
+--- 21973938
+>>21973932
+>no u
+If you want my comeback you're going to have to suck it out of your dads asshole lmao
+--- 21974039
+>and not 7.5 billion others
+This is the kind of bitch who's the first to pipe up about how the world's over populated and having kids would be selfish. Whore.
+--- 21974056
+>>21973923
+>>21973938
+Is that the best you can do?
+--- 21974200
+It's surprising how good Nietzscheans are at buck breaking
+--- 21974209
+>>21973539
+rope
+>>21973539
+rope
+>>21973539
+rope
+>>21973539
+rope
+>>21973539
+rope
+>>21973539
+rope
+--- 21974297
+>>21971186 (OP)
+Based. But what are these 'ascetic roleplay mods'?
+--- 21974302
+>>21974200
+Nietzschechads we can’t stop winning
+--- 21975301
+>>21974297
+im also interested
+--- 21975344
+>>21971186 (OP)
+>heckin Steve Bannon
+>video games
+>no God
+>r-read Nietzsche
+why are demonstrably resentful last men so eager to mention Nietzsche for no reason? Is this the ultimate BTFO of his worldview?
+--- 21975359
+>>21973381
+Very true, midwits with their single line 'witty' "rebuttals" demonstrate this
+--- 21975475
+>>21971186 (OP)
+Nietzsche is a huge influence on evola, tf is she on about?
+--- 21975703
+If you see yourself as an acolyte of Evola you're not truly following Evola, you feel me lil bro?
+--- 21976730
+>>21971186 (OP)
+Women are such apologists for the cosmic median.
+>there's no special divine providence that might care for you and not 7.5 billion others
+There's no reasoning to this statement, both from a theurgic and materialist evolutionary numbers-game perspective. I can think of situations where individuals have been singled out by a power, even if the power is proxy via 'pure chance,' that could just as well be providential by way of it's extraction from the mundane. 
+These intense moments of singularity just seem statistically unlikely- therefore noise to this woman, who only pings when 7.5 billion people all unite in one big orgy of human goop. Even more so, the idea that someone might individuate to such a degree is inherently disagreeable to the female disposition, because women are designed to facilitate life, to contain two seperate hearts in one single body.
+--- 21976808
+It's so funny when low IQ trannies try to refute Evola. Most of the time they just resort to trolling almost instantly because they're too stupid to understand the first thing about his œuvres.
+--- 21976995
+>>21976808
+Trannies are the biggest hylics around
+--- 21977016
+>>21973558
+cope
+>>21973639
+cope
+>>21973727
+cope
+>>21973743
+cope
+>>21973762
+cope
+>>21974039
+cope
+>>21974209
+cope
+>>21975344
+cope
+>>21976730
+cope
+>>21976808
+cope
+--- 21977040
+Mass reply tards should be banned
+--- 21977064
+>>21977016
+cope
+--- 21977186
+>>21977040
+Nothing of value would be lost
+--- 21977199
+>>21971186 (OP)
+>femoid
+cringe 
+>evola
+cringe
+>nietzsche
+cringe
+>>21977016
+cringe
+--- 21977322
+>>21971186 (OP)
+>I for one, am going to deal with my pain with full use of my mental faculties
+It's good to see A A Lewis hasn't retired from his career as a professional quotemaker

lit/21971193.txt

@@ -18,3 +18,23 @@ this but without a hint of irony
 Here are some narrations of my short stories you might enjoy
 
 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6jI5DqxxW73O7Einf38QghxpkWbn5emB
+--- 21973310
+>>21971193 (OP)
+I have a novella for you called "Children of the Kingdom" by T.E.D. Klein. I hope you enjoy it.
+--- 21973350
+>>21971193 (OP)
+isn't this from some kind of creepy pasta game from the early 2010s? Looks familiar
+--- 21974847
+Willows by Blackwood
+Salem's Lot by King
+--- 21975095
+>>21971193 (OP)
+If you find it, OP, don't tell me. I still sleep with the bedroom door open from watching these scenes in my childhood.
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp1UPGesJCE [Embed]
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuLZwlDxh8 [Embed]
+--- 21975099
+>>21971193 (OP)
+The Dead Space series by Brian Evenson
+--- 21976861
+>>21971193 (OP)
+the talmud

lit/21971218.txt

@@ -5,3 +5,20 @@ Post some recommendations, stories from any time period.
 If you want quality historical fiction check out Argosy magazine on Archive. A significant fraction of the stories are historical fiction and they're from a time when people gave a crap.
 --- 21972541
 >>21971218 (OP)
+--- 21974849
+To Serve Them All My Days
+
+https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/372853.To_Serve_Them_All_My_Days
+--- 21975195
+>>21971218 (OP)
+--- 21976231
+'Julian' by Gore Vidal. Also 'Creation' by Vidal. 'I, Claudius' by Robert Graves.
+I just started Don DeLillo's 'Libra' and I'm really enjoying it so far.
+--- 21976384
+Cadfael series
+--- 21976386
+>>21976137
+Waugh wrote this basically as soon as ww2 ended, it's not historical fiction
+--- 21976489
+>>21976386
+Call it autofiction if you want, but it contains some of his best writing and is probably even better than Brideshead Revisited.

lit/21971272.txt

@@ -49,3 +49,22 @@ not much to worry about
 --- 21972350
 >>21971625
 big based
+--- 21973554
+>>21971272 (OP)
+Libgeb
+--- 21973865
+Thriftbooks. Never used Bookdepository
+--- 21974546
+My local library. I moved to Belgium, and every one of their online retailers suck ass for English books. I pirate 99% of my books through PDFDrive, and everything else is Bol. Otherwise, my library.
+--- 21974561
+didn't bookdepository have import taxes in mainland europe after the brexit shit went down?
+--- 21974845
+>>21971625
+>brings such abundance the world couldn't imagine it just ten years ago
+>goes away
+>you failed why don't you try being as good as this shitty thing government put together
+--- 21976069
+>>21971272 (OP)
+betterworldbooks
+--- 21976074
+I usually go outside and visit a book store

lit/21971428.txt

@@ -161,3 +161,70 @@ Well, how can something express your anything if it’s not done by you? It’s
 --- 21972998
 >>21971428 (OP)
 >we might all be killed by superintelligent AI within a decade anyway
+--- 21973074
+>>21971428 (OP)
+Just want to say I feel this totally. I'm a NEET loser and excuse or not I really feel nothing I do will matter since I'll inevitably be outstripped by an AI in <30 years (at best, lmao). Wish I'd been given a better start so I might've had a chance to 'contribute' for a little bit, or at least live the normie life. 
+
+It's a very difficult thing! I've unconsciously been avoiding AI stuff of late because of how anxious it makes me, with the anxiety being quite unproductive as I can neither do anything of worth anyway nor even attempt to aid/retard AI's advance. Odd times to live in!
+--- 21973088
+>>21971428 (OP)
+Before ai; I write and draw. After ai; I write and draw.
+--- 21973134
+Honestly, both extremes of the A.I debate are retarded. You've got the doomers like OP going "It's over. Why try when AI can do what takes me days in minutes?" as if the only reason anyone would be doing these things is for monetary gain. Like, yes you can make a living writing, drawing, or through other creative ventures, but if money is your main motivation you should've picked another career.
+
+But then you've got those in denial or who are simply ignoring the point going like, "AI will never understand humanity, and will never be a threat to the truly creative," as if this isn't an evolving technology in its infancy. Already video game companies are using AI to generate art for them that they would've hired an artist for a year ago. Does that mean all the artists they didn't hire weren't good enough? Of course not. But if people can get something nearly as good for free as something they'd have to pay for, why wouldn't they? And so far the only thing holding AI back from doing the same to writers are the ability of agents, publishers, and magazines to differentiate it from real writing. It's only a matter of time before they no longer can.
+
+In conclusion, just do whatever you enjoy and don't obsess over things that are out of your control.
+--- 21973227
+>>21971428 (OP)
+>can't tell stories in intelligible, unimaginable and undefinable ways
+
+The rich will learn how to parasite their own euphoric glands, or how to care less
+--- 21973627
+>>21971910
+>I'm a human
+That's a pretty strange way to start a post
+--- 21973634
+>>21971428 (OP)
+Kill yourself, retard
+--- 21973679
+>>21972998
+That plug was never in that socket anyway
+--- 21975242
+>>21971570
+What's it trying to convey
+--- 21975821
+>>21971639
+somebody who gets it. any predictions about the timeline of this?
+--- 21975844
+1. AI needs its own fucking containment board already
+2. Literally all AI media is fucking garbage that only impresses people with sub-90 IQ (and '2 more weeks!'ing is not going to change that)
+3. The only good thing about AI is that the thought of it weeds out poser faggots like OP
+--- 21976788
+>>21971428 (OP)
+>not doing it anyway
+--- 21976819
+> he doesn't do things for the fun of doing things
+you have less soul than a language model nigga
+--- 21976892
+If you have any skills in those things then you are the one most qualifies to make good shit. To actually make interesting images or stories right now it requires a lot of user input and photoshopping. Its also increased the time ive spent doing art and writing by like tenfold
+--- 21976904
+>>21971910
+idiot
+--- 21976909
+>>21971428 (OP)
+Will you fight? Or will you perish like a dog?
+--- 21976952
+>>21971428 (OP)
+At best AI will be able to write the kind of trashy paperback novels you find at an airport bookshop, produce derivative, uninspired digital art, and any generated code will need to be checked and understood by someone who knows what they're doing anyway. You're just looking for an excuse to be a lazy piece of shit.
+--- 21976961
+>>21971428 (OP)
+I love watching it all unfold and have through my entire lineage. I would hate to end it here when things are about to get exciting again. Lo, I have so much to pass on already!
+--- 21976968
+>>21971910
+>chat-gpt trying to get someone to explain the joke
+not today!
+--- 21977339
+>>21975844
+>AI needs its own fucking containment board already
+Honestly, considering how ungodly fast these AI can shit out the “contents” and clog up the web? It needs a whole containment internet. Where AIfags can let their AI freely shit out things all over the place in irrelevancy and obscurity, while normal people who want to interact with other people and enjoy man-made arts and posts don’t have to suffer from their filth.

lit/21971753.txt

@@ -174,3 +174,152 @@ the issue with reducing everything to nothing is you can't make any sort of clai
 >>21972636
 I'm just thinking about how these past decades are going to play out in 50 years, will we look back and go "never again" or will it be too far gone and the endtimes will come within a century after I'm dead. Like everyone thought the second coming was coming throughout history a bunch of times and it obviously didn't happen but we are legitimately facing permanent tyranny of a centralised antichrist. The tech has progressed much faster than I speculated it would as a teen to the point pod people being mindcontrolled isn't that far off (far off enough I'll be dead, but where does that leave my children or theirs?)
 On one hand I've woken up from an unexamined life and can see myself attaining a moral personhood but on the other I also see the nightmare to come.
+--- 21973026
+>>21971753 (OP)
+>How can anyone disagree with this?
+Easy.
+>Since there is more pain than pleasure on earth, 
+This is not true. I am a very constipated man. I take very large shits, extremely weighty. The pain during is immense, as my asshole distends, develops instantaneous hemorrhoids, fissures and bleeds, but the joy after taking that shit, the pure nirvanic bliss of having expelled 20 pounds of waste that has massaged my vagus nerve on the way out, it outclasses every pain you and all of your ilk have ever felt. Speaking to the philosophically learned and erudite, it is the Nozickean dookie monster - i.e., the monster is the very large behemoth I press out of my asshole - that refutes your entire position, worldview and even, in the case of Schopenhauer, metaphysics.
+
+I am not even being facetious. My reasoning about the pleasures of shitting outranking your pain is 100% analogous to your reasoning about your linkin park lyrics tier angst outranking my and everyone elses joy with the world.
+--- 21973029
+>>21971853
+>dis nigga think rejecting jouissance is what makes him human instead of the constantly shifting dynamicity of base animality and reason
+Do you also feel indignified when you eat?
+On a scale of 1-10, how anemic would you say you are?
+--- 21973033
+>>21971893
+Indescribably based.
+--- 21973036
+>>21971773
+Desert religion cope.
+--- 21973039
+>>21971826
+>>21971853
+Based.
+--- 21973060
+>>21972544
+>A little bit of pleasure to a man is subjectively of greater value than a proportionally much larger quantity of pain. People prove this every day of their lives when they labour for something they want, or when they delay pleasure (read: in favour of pain) to achieve an end by which a greater pleasure is had.
+yeah at first then after a few years of doing this, they change their minds, weird huh
+--- 21973067
+>>21971853
+>animal-like irrationality
+my brother, you realise that you are also an animal?
+--- 21973150
+>>21971753 (OP)
+Disagree. Like that.
+--- 21973184
+>>21971753 (OP)
+It can't. It's a perfect analogy for life itself, pain and suffering.
+Schopenhauer exceeds at analogies, and it shows. I think even Socrates once said that someone who uses well-thought out analogies has the signs of intelligence and wisdom, if I remember right.
+--- 21973188
+>>21971753 (OP)
+Since you haven't blown your brains out seems you don't agree with him.
+--- 21973253
+>>21972573
+>he didn't mean that. Schopy enjoyed flirtation
+Not mutually exclusive. Retard post, overall.
+>>21973060
+I have no idea what in the good god damn you are bitter about, you loser, but this is not an argument.
+
+I literally refuted Schopenhauer on the point of antinatalism today, and this is the best /lit/ has to offer me. The barely coherent mutterings of witless faggots.
+--- 21973273
+>>21971893
+>unironically have kids
+>condoms
+>Birth control 
+>i like fucking but also like my independence as a single person
+Yeah.. sure.. Your brain’s stuck in primordial times while living in the 21st-century. Go out of your cave, man.
+--- 21973294
+>>21973273
+ok enjoy your life amounting to the same significance as the humble cockroach in that case.
+>independence
+trite, base, vain, masturbatory.
+--- 21974466
+>>21972457
+So, you're a cuck. If the lion eats you or if a black man rapes, tortures and kills your family. Your perspective would not matter at all, because apparently in your definition the superior being is one who murders another, and that superiority would justify anything.
+--- 21974502
+>>21973029
+As a matter of fact, I do. This is why I said earlier that I wouldn't mind starving myself if I could get over my attachment to this life.
+>>21973067
+I am an animal who knows it's an animal. That is the difference you seem to be forgetting, my liege.
+--- 21974682
+>>21973188
+Schopenhauer is totally against suicide.
+--- 21974689
+>>21974682
+Not philosophically enlightened suicide, like voluntary starvation
+--- 21974701
+>>21973036
+go back to r*ddit
+--- 21974736
+>>21971753 (OP)
+Sounds like a pussy ass faggot
+--- 21974801
+Schoppy was so close to simply restating the brilliance of Vedic/Buddhist thought but he decided to rewrite it in the most retarded way sometimes. 
+His readers always think that the matter at hand is the balance of pleasure to pain, when the more important part of his argument is that impermanence in general is painful, and as one of the fundamental characteristics of human existence, it cannot be avoided and must cause suffering.
+--- 21974916
+>>21971753 (OP)
+>Since there is more pain than pleasure on earth
+This won't always be the case. David Pearce thinks genetic engineering and neuroscience will eventually lead to the complete abolition of all suffering.
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx3rdVQZ3mo [Embed]
+--- 21974927
+>>21974916
+nigga, please...
+--- 21974931
+>>21974916
+The people working towards this are retards
+--- 21974937
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqeN2RRR3xQ [Embed]
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnnOhZuny_M [Embed]
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRg2nOc8umE [Embed]
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30OlsIZb31Y [Embed]
+--- 21974946
+>>21974927
+>>21974931
+Do you have any actual arguments for why this is a bad thing?
+--- 21974970
+>>21974689
+>voluntary starvation
+>suicide
+Choose one
+--- 21974979
+>>21971753 (OP)
+Feels like a crabs in the bucket mentality to me. 
+>If I cant be happy than nobody should exist.
+Sorry old man guess you shouldn't have been such a loser
+--- 21975109
+>>21974946
+I think the main problem is that it's not a well-defined goal. Everything we know, including happiness, is relative to pain and suffering. What would a world without pain and suffering actually look like? It's naive to think that everyone would be happy all the time.
+--- 21975537
+>>21974916
+Negative one unit of hedonium would be suffering, retard. Its a sliding scale of valence. How are these people so blind? The hedonistic imperative would never erase want/do not want, it would just shift it.
+--- 21975590
+>>21971753 (OP)
+he's an incel so I refuse to believe anything he has to say about the existence of life on this planet
+--- 21975591
+Why can't life just be good?
+--- 21975600
+>>21971753 (OP)
+you have manufactured pessimism to make giving up the most logical answer, basically your not only a loser, your such a loser that you convinced yourself that your loserness is smart.
+--- 21975617
+>>21971753 (OP)
+>A certain naturalist made the following experiment: A glass jar was divided into two halves by a perfectly transparent glass partition. On the one side of the partition he placed a pike, on the other a number of small fishes such as form the prey of the pike. The pike did not notice the partition, and hurled itself on its prey, with, of course, the result only of a bruised nose. The same happened many times, and always the same result. At last, seeing all its efforts ended so painfully, the pike abandoned the hunt, so that in a few days, when the partition had been removed it continued to swim about among the small fry without daring to attack them.... Does not the same happen with us? Perhaps the limits between "this world" and "the other world" are also essentially of an experimental origin, neither rooted in the nature of things, as was thought before Kant, or in the nature of our reason, as was thought after Kant. Perhaps indeed a partition does exist, and make vain all attempts to cross over.. But perhaps there comes a moment when the partition is removed. In our minds, however, the conviction is firmly rooted that it is impossible to pass certain limits, and painful to try: a conviction founded on experience. But in this case we should recall the old scepticism of Hume, which idealist philosophy has regarded as mere subtle mind-play, valueless after Kant's critique. The most lasting and varied experience cannot lead to any binding and universal conclusion. Nay, all our a priori, which are so useful for a certain time, become sooner or later extremely harmful. A philosopher should not be afraid of scepticism, but should go on bruising his jaw. Perhaps the failure of metaphysics lies in the caution and timidity of metaphysicians, who seem ostensibly so brave. They have sought for rest—which they describe as the highest boon. Whereas they should have valued more than anything restlessness, aimlessness, even purposelessness. How can you tell when the partition will be removed? Perhaps at the very moment when man ceased his painful pursuit, settled all his questions and rested on his laurels, inert, he could with one strong push have swept through the pernicious fence which separated him from the unknowable. There is no need for man to move according to a carefully-considered plan. This is a purely aesthetic demand which need not bind us. Let man senselessly and deliriously knock his head against the wall—if the wall go down at last, will he value his triumph any the less? Unfortunately for us the illusion has been established in us that plan and purpose are the best guarantee of success. What a delusion it is! The opposite is true. The best of all that genius has revealed to us has been revealed as the result of fantastic, erratic, apparently ridiculous and useless, but relentlessly stubborn seeking.
+--- 21975785
+>>21971773
+Schopenhauer agreed nature is beautiful. But he pointed out that there an abysmal difference between admiring nature and BEING nature. 
+
+Being ruthless and beautiful is not contradictory.
+--- 21976076
+>>21971893
+You are a satanic transsexual. You are not fooling anyone.
+--- 21976103
+>>21976076
+meds
+--- 21977178
+>>21971753 (OP)
+Existence is so disparaging that the real conclusive core is existence is Nothigness taken to it's fullest extent, and plain old nothingness of non-existence is just unelaborated existence. Therefore existence is better than non existence, both because it's the only possible way to exist, and also because it would be better to be nothing - and, by existing, that's exactly what you are.
+--- 21977241
+>>21971853
+you are still an animal whether you have sex or not

lit/21972051.txt

@@ -34,3 +34,104 @@ I like how that cover looks I'm gonna buy that one and monte cristo. the hardcov
 --- 21972695
 >>21972139
 Man, I'm the guy who made the MM thread, I'm also in the Iliad and Pound threads, and I have a copy of this lying around too. I'm strapped for time and you niggers are making it really hard to just pick something.
+--- 21973191
+>>21972051 (OP)
+My pick is The Illiad
+--- 21973496
+>>21972051 (OP)
+I'm interested. I too have the Rutherford edition.
+--- 21974126
+>Grossman Translation:
+>Chapter 1
+Which describes the condition and profession of the famous gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha
+
+Somewhere in La Mancha, in a place whose name I do not care to remember, a gentleman lived not long ago, one of those who has a lance and ancient shield on a shelf and keeps a skinny nag and a greyhound for racing. An occasional stew, beef more often than lamb, hash most nights, eggs and abstinence on Saturdays, lentils on Fridays, sometimes squab as a treat on Sundays—these consumed three-fourths of his income.1 The rest went for a light woolen tunic and velvet breeches and hose of the same material for feast days, while weekdays were honored with dun-colored coarse cloth. He had a housekeeper past forty, a niece not yet twenty, and a man-of-all-work who did everything from saddling the horse to pruning the trees. Our gentleman was approximately fifty years old; his complexion was weathered, his flesh scrawny, his face gaunt, and he was a very early riser and a great lover of the hunt. Some claim that his family name was Quixada, or Quexada, for there is a certain amount of disagreement among the authors who write of this matter, although reliable conjecture seems to indicate that his name was Quexana. But this does not matter very much to our story; in its telling there is absolutely no deviation from the truth.
+
+And so, let it be said that this aforementioned gentleman spent his times of leisure—which meant most of the year—reading books of chivalry with so much devotion and enthusiasm that he forgot almost completely about the hunt and even about the administration of his estate; and in his rash curiosity and folly he went so far as to sell acres of arable land in order to buy books of chivalry to read, and he brought as many of them as he could into his house; and he thought none was as fine as those composed by the worthy Feliciano de Silva,2 because the clarity of his prose and complexity of his language seemed to him more valuable than pearls, in particular when he read the declarations and missives of love, where he would often find written: The reason for the unreason to which my reason turns so weakens my reason that with reason I complain of thy beauty. And also when he read:…the heavens on high divinely heighten thy divinity with the stars and make thee deserving of the deserts thy greatness deserves.
+
+With these words and phrases the poor gentleman lost his mind, and he spent sleepless nights trying to understand them and extract their meaning, which Aristotle himself, if he came back to life for only that purpose, would not have been able to decipher or understand. Our gentleman was not very happy with the wounds that Don Belianís gave and received, because he imagined that no matter how great the physicians and surgeons who cured him, he would still have his face and entire body covered with scars and marks.
+--- 21974140
+>Rutherford Translation:
+>Chapter 1
+Concerning the famous hidalgo Don Quixote de la Mancha’s position, character and way of life
+
+In a village in La Mancha, the name of which I cannot quite recall, there lived not long ago one of those country gentlemen or hidalgos who keep a lance in a rack, an ancient leather shield, a scrawny hack and a greyhound for coursing. A midday stew with rather more shin of beef than leg of lamb, the leftovers for supper most nights, lardy eggs on Saturdays, lentil broth on Fridays and an occasional pigeon as a Sunday treat ate up three-quarters of his income. The rest went on a cape of black broadcloth, with breeches of velvet and slippers to match for holy days, and on weekdays he walked proudly in the finest homespun. He maintained a housekeeper the wrong side of forty, a niece the right side of twenty and a jack of all trades who was as good at saddling the nag as at plying the pruning shears. Our hidalgo himself was nearly fifty; he had a robust constitution, dried-up flesh and a withered face, and he was an early riser and a keen huntsman. His surname’s said to have been Quixada, or Quesada (as if he were a jawbone, or a cheesecake): concerning this detail there’s some discrepancy among the authors who have written on the subject, although a credible conjecture does suggest he might have been a plaintive Quexana. But this doesn’t matter much, as far as our story’s concerned, provided that the narrator doesn’t stray one inch from the truth.
+
+Now you must understand that during his idle moments (which accounted for most of the year) this hidalgo took to reading books of chivalry with such relish and enthusiasm that he almost forgot about his hunting and even running his property, and his foolish curiosity reached such extremes that he sold acres of arable land to buy these books of chivalry, and took home as many of them as he could find;1 he liked none of them so much as those by the famous Feliciano de Silva, because the brilliance of the prose and all that intricate language seemed a treasure to him, never more so than when he was reading those amorous compliments and challenges delivered by letter, in which he often found: ‘The reason for the unreason to which my reason is subjected, so weakens my reason that I have reason to complain of your beauty.’ And also when he read: ‘... the lofty heavens which with their stars divinely fortify you in your divinity, and make you meritorious of the merits merited by your greatness.’ Such subtleties used to drive the poor gentleman to distraction, and he would rack his brains trying to understand it all and unravel its meaning, something that Aristotle himself wouldn’t have been capable of doing even if he’d come back to life for this purpose alone. He wasn’t very happy about the wounds that Sir Belianis kept on inflicting and receiving, because he imagined that, however skilful the doctors who treated him, his face and body must...
+--- 21975877
+>>21972051 (OP)
+I would do it if I wasn't already committed to the Iliad and The Magic Mountain
+--- 21975918
+you guys actually did a magic mountain readthrough? a book with no story? is it just cause it was a german author? lol
+--- 21975960
+>>21975918
+Its starting tomorrow I think.
+--- 21976192
+>>21974126
+>>21974140
+there are big differences between these. "i do no care to remember" remember sets a different tone than "cannot quite recall". moreover, what happened to the village? how do you feel about the signet classics version? also can you post the spanish of this so we can get a feel for the original compared to the translations? i'm not fluent in spanish, but being american, i'm exposed to enough of it to pick up an elementary understanding.
+--- 21976214
+>>21976192
+I read the signet one. Tom Lathrop. I thought it was pretty good but I haven't read any others and I don't speak Spanish.
+--- 21976217
+how are you guys not reading the smollett
+--- 21976232
+>>21976192
+>En un lugar de la Mãcha, de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme, no ha mucho tiempo que viuia vn hidalgo de los de lança en aſtillero, adarga antigua, rozin flaco, y galgo corredor.
+
+it says place not village, and it says he does not want to remember not that he cannot. rutherford translation looking kinda sus.
+--- 21976289
+>>21976217
+i just checked out the smollet, first line had me laughing, and it was pretty accurate. i think i might have to go with that one. it's just a bummer it's dover which usually have such a cheap feel and yet in this case is only like two bucks cheaper than all the rest.
+--- 21976293
+>>21976289
+wait no, it's actually more expensive than the signet! signets are so much more comfy than dovers.
+--- 21976320
+do yourself a favor and read an annotated version
+the book becomes magnitudes funnier when you actually understand all the jokes based on the culture of the time
+--- 21976341
+oh shit there's one of those yale open courseware classes for it. if we're gonna do a read along we should def watch the lectures after whatever the reading is for that session. interesting, the class uses the rutherford translation, but maybe only cuz the prof wrote the intro? 
+
+https://oyc.yale.edu/spanish-and-portuguese/span-300
+--- 21976355
+>>21972051 (OP)
+I enjoy the work of Bacon, I'm in!
+--- 21976368
+>>21976232
+Yeah, but Rutherford reads better... I hate such quandaries!
+--- 21976380
+>>21976217
+Post the first 3000 characters if you have it in ebook, or take a pic of the first page.
+--- 21976405
+>>21976341
+The prof gives plot spoilers, watch out. But the first one is good for historical bg
+--- 21976459
+>>21976320
+fuck, i'm trying to find the specific version that i read, as i think it's pretty good, but i can't find it
+all i remember is that the cover was plain white with no pictures, and the book itself also didn't have pictures
+--- 21976495
+>>21976380
+>https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_and_Adventures_of_the_Renown/7332hKEp4jwC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA9&printsec=frontcover
+here's the whole thing
+--- 21976545
+>>21976495
+>Smollet
+>THE LIFE and ATCHIEVEMENTS Of the Sage and Valiant DON QUIXOTE de la Mancha. 
+>PART I. BOOK I. chapter i. 
+Of the quality and amusements of the renowned DON QUIXOTE de la Mancha. 
+
+In a certain corner of la Mancha, the name of which I do not choose to remember, there lately lived one of those country gentlemen, who adorn their halls with a rusty lance and worm-eaten target, and ride forth on the skeleton of a horse, to course with a sort of a starved greyhound. Three fourths of his income were scarce sufficient to afford a dish of hodge-podge, in which the mutton bore * no proportion to the beef, for dinner; a plate of salmagundy, commonly at supper †; gripes and grumblings ‡ on saturdays, lentils on fridays, and the addition of a pigeon or some such thing on the Lord’s-day. The remaining part of his revenue was consumed in the purchase of a fine black suit, with velvet breeches and slippers of the same, for holy-days, and a coat of home-spun, which he wore in honour of his country, during the rest of the week. He maintained a female house-keeper turned of forty, a niece of about half that age, * Mutton in Spain is counted greatly preferable to beef.1 † Salpicon, which is the word in the original, is no other than cold beef sliced, and eaten with oil, vinegar and pepper.2 ‡ Gripes and grumblings, in Spanish Duelos y Quebrantos: the true meaning of which, the former translators3 have been at great pains to investigate, as the importance of the subject (no doubt) required . But their labours have, unhappily, ended in nothing else but conjectures, which, for the entertainment and instruction of our readers, we beg leave to repeat. One interprets the phrase into collops and eggs, “being,” saith he, “a very sorry dish.” In this decision, however, he is contradicted by another commentator, who affirms, “it is a mess too good to mortify withal”; neither can this virtuoso agree with a late editor, who translates the passage in question, into an amlet, but takes occasion to fall out with Boyer for his description of that dish, which he most sagaciously under- and a trusty young fellow, fit for field and market, who could turn his hand to any thing, either to saddle the horse or handle the hough *. Our squire, who bordered upon fifty, was of a tough constitution, extremely meagre and hard-featur’d, an early riser, and in point of exercise, another Nimrod †. He is said to have gone by the name of Quixada, or Quesada, (for in this particular, the authors who mention that circumstance, disagree) though, from the most probable conjectures, we may conclude, that he was called by the significant name of Quixada ‡;
+--- 21976556
+>>21976341
+Yale open courses are painful to watch. Every single one is like a boomer stretching out the opening paragraph to a wikipedia article for an hour.
+--- 21976582
+>>21976556
+well i guess you aren't cut out for yale, my zoomer friend.
+--- 21976916
+Im at page 804 myself. I was getting really burned out, but things picked up again and I am once again hooked 
+
+I obviously wont be participating in any read along, but if there's discussion threads, ill be participating
+--- 21977282
+>>21972051 (OP)
+>Rutherford Penguin edition
+good lad

lit/21972144.txt

@@ -61,3 +61,229 @@ All I hear is, "the world needs me as the boss and everyone else should suck my
 --- 21973019
 >>21973007
 All I see in that is projection.
+--- 21973142
+Thoughts?
+
+http://blogmeridian.com/hello-world/
+--- 21973152
+>>21972144 (OP)
+Being the anti-trend I am, if everyone reads books, I'm spending my paycheck for a PS5.
+
+Let's see how you like THAT book-reading bitches
+--- 21973214
+Maybe some of you will read Warlock and realise Mccarthy wasnt the first to write brutal westerns
+--- 21973218
+>>21973214
+Read The Son and Lonesome Dove. Real human Westerns, not this satanic reddit shit for edgelords called Blood Meridian.
+--- 21973231
+>>21973218
+I'm >>21973152
+Agree with you.
+--- 21973243
+>>21973019
+My guy, you used "niggers" in your argument, you don't have any ground to stand on polite society to have any of your opinions seriously heard, you accusing me of projection might be as well true but I don't need subterfuges to say the world would be better if I'm in charge and you're sucking my cock
+--- 21973301
+>>21973218
+>>21973152
+Contrarianism doesn't make you interesting.
+--- 21973317
+>>21973301
+>Contrarianism doesn't make you interesting.
+then why are people contrarian?
+--- 21973332
+>>21972144 (OP)
+Barely noticeable, just fishing for booktuber type trash consoomer types that will read anything.
+--- 21973344
+I thought it was a moderately funny video, didn't laugh but it was entertaining enough to almost smile. You know what I mean
+--- 21973588
+>>21972855
+>interesting concept
+Are you retarded? I an genuinely asking
+--- 21973606
+>>21973344
+>You know what I mean
+No, anyone who is not a screen-adddictef, e-celeb worshipping dullard does not know what you mean
+--- 21974113
+>>21973606
+You're retarded
+--- 21974124
+>>21973606
+If you think normalfags don't have the same dead expression while watching reruns of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia or The Office for the 4th time then you don't know many normalfags. 
+
+The fact is most people don't actually like the media they consume that much and are just filling time until their next distraction.
+--- 21974144
+>>21973243
+>My guy
+Shut your mouth, you Reddit faggot. Here's something you're projecting ass can't understand, non-faggot White people like living in societies made up of people of equal or greater worth than themselves, they like being able to learn from others and to hold great conversation, they don't want to look down on others. But a society full of niggers can only ever be looked down on by even the most mediocre of Whites.
+--- 21974208
+>>21974113
+>no u 
+Sad
+--- 21974318
+>>21973301
+Hardly contrarianism. You just live in a reddit echo chamber.
+--- 21974407
+>>21974318
+Kys contrarian fag
+--- 21974418
+>>21974318
+Go back to your discord, tranny.
+--- 21974440
+>>21974318
+You seem to know a lot about reddit. Fuck off back there will you
+--- 21974442
+>>21972144 (OP)
+I hate these soulless, braindead, ironic, self-depricating, low IQ, low attention span, unoriginal fucking faggots that manifest on every level of the internet and populate so much of the world, that destroy everything good in their path, mindlessly consuming upon demand. I want shove a butter knife into this algorithm-optimized minute-length memer faggots eye all the way to its butt.
+--- 21974452
+>>21974407
+>>21974418
+>>21974440
+lol three taggots in a row. I must've hit a nerve.
+--- 21974454
+>>21974442
+The insecure, buttblasted trannies have also worked themselves into a seethe because of how much attention the book is getting. Some mentally ill nigel or alberto barbosa was at it the whole day today. Mental fucking illness.
+--- 21974462
+>>21974452
+You definitely hit a nerve chopping your dick off tranny. Enough with your pretend bullshit. Kill yourself.
+--- 21974465
+>>21974454
+Down the hall and to the left
+--- 21974475
+Regular visual media being repetitive and ugly might. Plus there’s too much to choose from that people end up watching old stuff. Best case scenario the new writers’ strike destroys streaming content for awhile and leads people back to literature, even Oprah book club trash.
+--- 21974492
+>>21974462
+My dick is intact. Yours must be circumcised like all the goyim who worship McCarthy's cornslop.
+--- 21974521
+>>21974492
+Kill yourself, tranny.
+--- 21974528
+>>21974521
+Yawn.
+--- 21974537
+>>21972144 (OP)
+Book trends are only popping up on social media aggregate devices that lower your ability to concentrate on one thing, which is kinda important for reading something to the end.
+--- 21974540
+>>21974528
+Put a gun in the trap and shoot while you are at it.
+--- 21974754
+>>21973214
+>warlock 
+>brutal western
+
+Nigger, half the book is a woman's (blaisdell's whore) interiority. Fuck off with this garbage.
+--- 21974820
+>>21972144 (OP)
+No, lol. It's gonna be like video games. People will buy the book and keep it in a stand while parroting the same opinions as the youtube man without arriving to their own conclusions.
+--- 21974825
+>>21974540
+Edgy. No wonder reddit goyim like you love Corncob.
+--- 21974829
+>>21972866
+The evidence of western history, culture, and art do not seem to support your claim.
+--- 21974841
+>>21974829
+what do zoomers have to do with any of that? they're a bunch of niggerized retards who watch tiktok all day
+--- 21974857
+>>21974825
+Kill yourself, tranny.
+--- 21974875
+>>21974857
+> tranny
+But I don't read edgy shit like a Redditor.
+--- 21974877
+>>21974825
+If yoy like that place that much just go back there, redditranny.
+--- 21974883
+>>21974875
+Typical tranny behaviour. Kill yourself, tranny. You are not funny.
+--- 21974899
+>>21974877
+>>21974883
+You'll fit right in with the Redditors:
+https://www.reddit.com/r/cormacmccarthy/
+--- 21974906
+>>21972870
+Nice try, but a primary fan would scalp Mexicans and natives. The secondary fan would merely live around the areas like the author did. Tertiary would read the book, and quaternary fans would finally post about the author on the imageboard.
+--- 21974920
+>>21973007
+>>21973243
+>don't say the nword that's heckin mean!
+>my guy!
+I like imagining what this creature looks like, but the truth is always stranger than my fiction.
+--- 21974921
+>>21974906
+This. That's why I've signed up on a Jap ship to go kill dolphins and whales. Close enough, I'd say, to be considered a true Moby-Dick fan.
+--- 21974928
+>>21974906
+>when the edge levels are off the charts
+--- 21974929
+>>21974921
+--- 21975149
+>>21974841
+>niggerized
+Youre just proving the other guys point
+--- 21975177
+>>21975149
+no cap fr fr
+--- 21975282
+>>21974899
+>you fit right in with the redditors
+So much self hate lol.
+--- 21976311
+>>21974144
+>White people like living in societies made up of people of equal or greater worth than themselves
+And alll you had to do to make them do the opposite was to pay them
+
+> they like being able to learn from others and to hold great conversation
+It would never happen with you around
+
+>But a society full of niggers can
+Never forget, you voted for it
+--- 21976319
+>>21974920
+>>don't say the nword that's heckin mean!
+lol you hadn't said it, I did tho
+
+>imagining what this creature looks like
+Better than you twinkie eating pepsi suger ass. And that's not much either
+--- 21976465
+>>21974825
+Youre a faggot kek you suck the penises of dudes
+--- 21976511
+>>21972144 (OP)
+no
+--- 21976524
+>>21976465
+Holy projection, Redditor.
+--- 21976542
+>>21972855
+in the original context
+>primary: actually played 2hu games
+>secondary: played 2hu fan games based off the property
+>tertiary: no actual connection to any games, just fanart and memes relating to it
+Doesn't really apply to literature since the secondary fan doesn't really exist, other than in the context of reading secondary sources.
+--- 21976977
+>>21976524
+Projection smhecksun you are fully legit fag
+--- 21976991
+>>21976977
+>legit
+Nigger moment
+--- 21977066
+>>21976991
+Tranny moment
+--- 21977068
+>>21977066
+Trannies don't say nigger, retard.
+--- 21977095
+>>21972834
+It was interesting because I wanted a good summary (I will read it someday) I don’t know why he kept laughing and getting so excitable and saying ‘this book so FunNy’. Ruined the mood a little.
+--- 21977111
+>>21977095
+The fact that wendigoon found it funny means that he is nowhere near the pleb that he is made out to be.
+--- 21977115
+>>21977111
+It's a funny book. It's a radical satire.
+--- 21977155
+>>21974921
+who read moby dick and didn't consider this just once?

lit/21972198.txt

@@ -68,3 +68,98 @@ Also a Pilgrims Progress from 1878, charity shop for a fiver
 --- 21972845
 >>21972825
 Uhh i'm a meskheti turk living in a post ussr country. I know that in Central Asia, from the 18th-19th century, islam was heavily imposed by Catherine the Great because it was a better alternative to tengriism. Crimean tatars after the russo-turkish wars, also got their religious rights protected for them to not rebel. Also some russian writers took some inspiration from the quran, for example dostoevsky mentions episode in quran where the prophet circles the world in a time it takes a vase to fall from the table. Pushkin and Tolstoy also wrote about quran but i have not read them as much. In the USSR being religious in general was prohibited, so there's that.
+--- 21973042
+>>21972198 (OP)
+I actually do have a rare one. I have the 1898 double volume of Darwin's On the Origin of Species. It supposedly goes for anywhere from a couple hundred to a couple thousand. I picked them both up for $8 each at a used book store down the road. https://mflibra.com/products/1898-rare-book-set-charles-darwin-the-origin-of-species-natural-selection?variant=12945985470519
+--- 21973116
+>>21973042
+I was just flipping through it for the mentioned fold out diagram when I found a receipt tucked in it from 1970. The buyer had dished out a whopping $2.70.
+--- 21973137
+I own the rarest book in the world because there's only 1 copy of it, which I made myself.
+--- 21973145
+>>21972198 (OP)
+Yeah. I've got a complete edition of Hamsun's works in Norwegian from 1933 (so it isn't even complete, as he lived and wrote for more than a decade afterwards). 
+I bought it off of a guy who has been maintaining a Hamsun fan-site in my country for 25 years, filling it with his favorite quotes and little musings and essays on what he thought was great and cool about Hamsun's writing. He was very clear that he only sold it because he had gotten a more complete, newer edition, and didn't have the shelf-space. When I met him, he seemed sort of sad about it at first, until he heard me speaking with passion about Hamsun, and even referencing his hobby-website (which I genuinely think is great) and lightened up at the prospect that he was selling it to someone who would immensely treasure it. Cool guy. 
+
+Apart from that, I've got a first-edition of the first Gogol translation to my language from 1888. Sold to me by the local used bookseller in the town I grew up in. He was blind in one eye and mostly retired, and his store was totally unorganized, open whenever he felt like it and rarely more than 3 hours a day, but he is a very affable and cool guy as well.
+
+I don't think these are particularly valuable, objectively speaking, but they are surely rare. I paid 120 euros for the Hamsun collection and 20 for the Gogol.
+--- 21973151
+>>21972198 (OP)
+I paid £49 for a first edition PKD pb.
+--- 21973168
+I own a book that you can only buy in a single library in the country and its going out of stock soon too, I bought it for 3 dollars
+--- 21973179
+i got a bible from the early 18th century. some collector even wanted to buy it last year, but it's been in the family since forever so no way i'm selling it.
+--- 21973194
+>>21972585
+Dude that's awesome. I'm studying Russian and the Quran at the same time.
+--- 21973197
+>>21973042
+Wicked. My favorite Professor would probably spend money on those if available.
+--- 21973200
+>>21973137
+Now, that's rare.
+--- 21973211
+Apu Apustaja: First Day of School
+--- 21973335
+Dunno how rare it is but I have a Jane Eyre copy from like 1850something. Can't read it though it will fall apart.
+--- 21973403
+>>21973145
+That’s great, thanks for sharing. Are you Norwegian?
+--- 21973417
+>>21972198 (OP)
+I have a lot of rare books. Some I have paid a few hundred dollars for.
+But my most expensive books are from estate sales and the like.
+If you want to get rare books cheap, you have to consistently just buy large piles of estate sale books and you will eventually rack them in.
+--- 21973423
+>>21972198 (OP)
+I own several rare books, I downloaded them from obscure websites because they because they weren't even available on libgen due to their rarity.
+--- 21973465
+>>21972198 (OP)
+I download books off the internet for free.
+--- 21973536
+I can’t attest to its scarcity but I’m proud of my English translation of “A People’s Autobiography in Verse” by Ismail Kadare, published in Tirana. Pic related is the German edition but my copy has an identical design.
+
+IIRC it’s an essay ranting about how Albania is the original source of ancient epics and that Homer ripped them off and the legacy of Greek ancient epics was stolen from the Albanians.
+--- 21973829
+Speaking of rare books is there anywhere I can find It’s Me Eddie by Eduard Limonov as a pdf or something? I really want to read it but the out of print copies are selling for drug money. There’s one on eBay for $400 that looks so nice but it’s insane
+--- 21974411
+>>21973829
+I don't know if you've heard, but you can google "search engine" and ask it all kinds of stuff
+--- 21974431
+>>21972198 (OP)
+
+Found a first British edition of Faulkner's A Fable once in Oxfam for £1 probably the rarest I own
+--- 21974526
+>>21972198 (OP)
+A handwritten book in Arabic on chess I got from my grandfather after he died. Can't read it and I'm pretty sure he also didn't know Arabic. I also have a third edition of Der Nationale Sozialismus from Rudolf Jung
+--- 21974567
+>>21973145
+
+Knausgaard is that you?
+--- 21975162
+I have a copy of 'The Ruling Class' by Mosca and a copy of 'The Tunnel' by William Gass
+--- 21975450
+>>21973145
+What's the website? I've read Hamsun's first 3 and thoroughly enjoyed them. Also saw a performance of David Johansen's Pan recently, enjoyable piece based on the novel.
+--- 21975746
+I found some early edition of Thorstein Veblens Theory of leisure class at a used store for normal price ($5?) and sold it for about $80. i dont think its valuable or anything just uncommon enough people would buy it
+--- 21975832
+>>21975746
+Veblen is a dirty mofo. he must have had some kind of game, though cause he scored with all of his friends wives.
+--- 21975868
+These are pretty rare and it should stay that way. So I bought two. :^)
+There exist some other print runs but this exact edition is the first book Arno Schmidt ever read on his own.
+--- 21977023
+I own what might be the only complete set of "Sanction", mint condition, and signed by the author. 
+I paid $350 in btc for it 2 years ago.
+--- 21977048
+>rare book thread
+>everyone brags about books they have that were printed decades after their first editions came out
+>everyone brags about collector’s editions that aren’t worth anything. 
+
+Great thread
+--- 21977130
+>>21972198 (OP)
+I got a first edition of JR (in paperback) for a dollar. It's in decent condition structurally, but there are some marks on the cover.

lit/21972213.txt

@@ -67,3 +67,93 @@ example ?
 --- 21972981
 >>21972213 (OP)
 YWNBAG
+--- 21973322
+>>21972213 (OP)
+Therr is zero certain Catholic Church teaching on this and as such my belief is Satan is the last angel to hear the Gospel. I believe St. Thomas Aquinas was wrong to say the rejected the beaitific vision but rather they were hidden certain elements as angels.
+--- 21973333
+>>21972259
+>He allowed and provided free will to the angels.
+This is not from Scripture nor is it from a Council fwiw. Angelology and Demonology is nearly all from the Good Doctor.
+--- 21973351
+>>21972213 (OP)
+>Why did God create Satan?
+https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1685/the-origin-of-satan/
+
+"Surprisingly, this entity was a late-comer in the ancient world. Satan, as a totally evil being, is nowhere to be found in the Jewish Bible. He evolved during the height of the Persian Achaemenid Empire (beginning c. 550 BCE) and was adopted by Jews living under Persian rule at the time."
+
+"The Book of Job (c. 600 BCE) is the earliest text to address the problem of theodicy, which is a modern term for the problem "If God is good, why does he permit evil and suffering to exist?" The book opens with the angels apparently reporting to God. Among them is the angel ha-Satan, whose function was to travel the world placing 'obstacles' (the meaning of his name) in front of humans, requiring them to make a choice (good or evil). In this role, we can say that he acts as God’s prosecuting attorney."
+"Ha-Satan appears rarely in the Jewish scriptures. In the few references to ha-Satan, he opposes humans, not God."
+
+"When Jerusalem was conquered and destroyed by the Neo-Babylonian Empire (587 BCE), some Jews were taken into captivity in Babylon. Cyrus the Great then conquered the Babylonians in 550 BCE and established the Persian Empire. The state cult of Persia was Zoroastrianism, founded by the prophet Zoroaster. Evil was seen as the polar opposite of good. A pure, good being, Ahura Mazda ('Wise Lord') was the source of everything, and at the polar end was druj, chaos. Druj became personified as Angra Mainyu ('false', 'deception'), also known as Ahriman. The heavens, the earth, and all humans fall within this polar range.
+Cyrus permitted the Jews to return to Jerusalem (539 BCE), although some stayed. They took many elements of ancient Persian religion with them, and they merged the personification of chaos with earlier views of ha-Satan. Now he was just Satan or, in Greek, diabolos, the Devil, and the Jews began assigning all evil to Satan instead of God."
+--- 21973355
+that's a tricky one. pic related only complicates it further. i've seen priests visibly baffled trying to explain this one
+--- 21973513
+>>21972943
+Chemosh, the Abomination of Moab, granted the Moabites victory over the Israelites despite Yahweh's opposition... although it's entirely possible that was another example of God allowing the Israelites to be defeated (usually due to a lack of faith or obedience on their part).
+
+Then there are Moloch, Baal and Ashera, just to name a few more. You should really find a good copy of the King James Authorized Version of the Holy Bible, preferably the Cambridge 1900s edition (which is currently in print and available brand new directly from Cambridge and at a variety of resellers).
+
+https://www.thekjvstore.com/kjv-cameo-reference-bible-with-apocrypha-cambridge/
+--- 21973522
+>>21972213 (OP)
+Same reason fat ugly chicks hand out with even fatter uglier chicks
+>To make themself look good
+--- 21973530
+>>21973333
+they're reasonable creatures, so it simply makes sense.
+it's extrapolating what he gave us to them.
+--- 21973556
+>>21973355
+Lucifer was created to serve God, but then he rebelled because of his own pride. His continued existence serves as a test of loyalty for the children of God. That release following the thousand years is the final test.
+--- 21973562
+>>21972213 (OP)
+Why do people create God/s and the Devil? Why do people create Olympus and Tartarus?
+--- 21973716
+>>21973530
+>it simply makes sense
+Writing off apocatastasis for a "simply makes sense" is not good enough.
+--- 21973819
+>>21973716
+well, what's the alternative?
+as Isaiah says, the fallen angel had the ideas in his heart and acted on them.
+
+God being perfectly good entails not having something like that be a puppet or whatever else He fully controls. else God wouldn't make it evil.
+
+how can you explain the fall of satan?
+--- 21973834
+>>21972943
+Psalm 82
+--- 21974005
+>>21972213 (OP)
+he was lonely
+--- 21974071
+>>21972213 (OP)
+The same reason he created everything else, the things you like and the ones you don't. YOU are Satan, OP, because you're reject God's creation as it is.
+--- 21974535
+>>21972213 (OP)
+He’s an enormous fuck up and not worth worship 
+
+Read a book.
+--- 21974585
+>>21972213 (OP)
+He made him evil on purpose, as a joke.
+--- 21975726
+>>21973834
+>Psalm 82
+Bad example but I'm pretty sure there's a reference to a water goddess and one of the apostles positively references a poet writing about Zeus.
+--- 21975772
+>>21975726
+do you mean the ephesians kicking the apostles out?
+no mention of anything besides it being an idol.
+
+as for the quoting, here's a nice little site with an explanation which i'd rather not try to condense
+>https://carm.org/defending-the-faith/did-paul-quote-pagan-philosophers/
+--- 21977025
+good cannot be known except in relation to evil
+--- 21977090
+>>21977025
+And people don't suffice?
+--- 21977097
+>>21972213 (OP)
+had to be done

lit/21972491.txt

@@ -38,3 +38,46 @@ If you’re looking for self-insert characters then go to /co/ and /a/. They hav
 >>21972494
 >>21972506
 BTFO. Thanks for your sacrifice.
+--- 21973439
+>>21972603
+>women acrually believe this
+--- 21974093
+>>21972506
+--- 21974382
+>>21972491 (OP)
+3rd book is my diary desu
+--- 21974417
+>>21972491 (OP)
+add the dwarf by Pär Lagerkvist.
+--- 21974449
+>>21972506
+literally me...
+--- 21974501
+>>21972506
+kek
+--- 21974818
+>>21972491 (OP)
+>read these and The Stranger because they're literally me
+>literally every main character gets pussy
+
+these guys weren't me at all
+--- 21974824
+>>21972491 (OP)
+BEHOLD
+THE HOLY TRINITY
+--- 21974850
+>>21974818
+Just read Houellebecq on loop, the only "real" writer. You gotta remember that one of the main goals of writers is to get ass so they have to censor the most pathetic aspects of male experience. Its all a bit fake, except Houellebecq. But, on the other hand, he is pointless.
+--- 21975790
+>>21972506
+Holy shit
+--- 21975802
+>>21972494
+>>21972506
+you walked into that
+--- 21976678
+>>21972506
+--- 21976687
+>>21972494
+>>21972506
+you okay, bro? we can talk about it.

lit/21972518.txt

@@ -7,3 +7,25 @@ Pulp trash and a “literally who” in the next thirty years outside horror ent
 Reminder that Harlan Ellison is a pedofork.
 --- 21972587
 I Have No Thoughts & I Must Post
+--- 21973701
+I reread it about once a year, and I always get a little more out of it each time. I think it's my favorite Harlan Ellison short story.
+On a first reading I think the common takeaway is the overwhelming dystopia it presents. The more I read it though, the thing I find more depressing is that even with only five people left on the entire planet they still hate and fear each other.
+The ending is a true victory in that sense, as it represents the five finally managing to truly work together, even if it is to commit suicide.
+The video game adaptation has some interesting ideas not present in the original short story, but I feel it's weaker overall. It's definitely worth checking out though for Harlan Ellison voice acting AM.
+--- 21974182
+>>21972518 (OP)
+I have no dick but I must cum
+--- 21975904
+>>21973701
+>The video game adaptation has some interesting ideas not present in the original short story, but I feel it's weaker overall. It's definitely worth checking out though for Harlan Ellison voice acting AM.
+GORRISTERRRRRRRRRRRR
+--- 21976161
+>>21972587
+Laughed at this more than I should have.
+
+Thanks anon.
+--- 21976693
+>>21972518 (OP)
+Was an okay video game I guess? There is some pretty hilarious Holohoax content.
+--- 21977242
+Jewish torture porn with a catchy title

lit/21972547.txt

@@ -15,3 +15,249 @@ Also interested. What should I be reading to get a better understanding of Itali
 --- 21972760
 shitItaly has no modern culture that's not celebrity culture. 
 Of all European nations it's perhaps the most cucked, even more the Germany.
+--- 21973223
+>>21972760
+=( You take that back
+--- 21973286
+>>21973223
+No
+Shitaly is the birthplace of everything wrong with the world, from Catholicism to Banking. It's culture of homosexuality and pornography has pervaded culture while it's architecture, from the dull classism of Palladio to the poison pill of the baroque in the form of Maderno and Borromini has been the source of all horrible wedding cake architecture for over 500 years. add to that all Italian men are degenerate philanderers while Italian women are ugly. and you have maybe the worst nation to have ever call itself European.
+--- 21973476
+>>21973286
+Italy is one of the most lovely countries in the world, and it's flamboyace is the only reason Christianity is even remotely tolerable.
+--- 21973672
+>>21972547 (OP)
+https://www.pressreader.com/it/catalog
+
+Here you can read magazines and newspapers from all around the world for free, legally
+
+Check it and see if something interests you
+--- 21973686
+>>21973286
+Are you Italian?
+--- 21973690
+>>21973223
+Are you also Italian?
+--- 21973719
+>>21973690
+yes
+>>21973690
+yes
+--- 21973732
+>>21973672
+Ohh thanks.
+--- 21973735
+>>21973719
+Aww, ignore that man who hates Italy
+--- 21974022
+>>21973735
+I..I...just hate them so much man.
+i cant..
+--- 21974051
+>>21974022
+I don't know how you feel anon but why? I have completely different experience meeting Italians. They're friendly and quiet funny
+--- 21974116
+>>21972547 (OP)
+>newspapers
+La Verità is the only acceptable one.
+--- 21974134
+>>21974116
+>It supported both fascist and Bolshevik views.
+--- 21974150
+>>21974051
+he's an argentinian tranny that is on the look 24/7 for any italian related thread to shitpost in it. argentinians in general are cool btw, this one specifically has some mental illness
+--- 21974409
+>>21973672
+>Here you can read magazines and newspapers from all around the world for free, legally
+>Free
+Why lie?? MA PERCHE MENTIRE?
+--- 21974518
+>>21974116
+Only if you want to wrap some cheese in it
+--- 21974520
+OP here ... 
+So does anyone have anything on topic to add?
+
+Does Italy have a TLS equivalent? Do you read anything lit related?
+--- 21974583
+>>21974150
+This, his autism can be found in like 5 different boards it's not even funny anymore
+--- 21974609
+>>21972547 (OP)
+Damn. I love Italian culture, bros. I suppose you can call me an Italophile. I am learning Italian even. But for reason I suspect that if I travel there my illusion would be shattered. Like people who go to Japan or France and end up disappointed.
+--- 21974630
+>>21974609
+No Italians are nice, chatty people. It's remarkable how many of them I befriended during my short vacations there. 
+Even managed to get laid with a random girl for the first time in like 7 years, and we still keep in touch through Instagram.
+
+On topic though I remember reading la Lettura that came to my hostel
+--- 21974690
+>>21974630
+That's good to hear. Roberto Bolaño said in an interview that his vision of heaven was a place full of Italian men and women.
+--- 21974696
+>>21974630
+>Even managed to get laid with a random girl for the first time in like 7 years
+Anon please tell us the story !
+--- 21974742
+>nearly stopped studying italian
+>change my mind
+>italian threads start popping up
+kino
+--- 21974783
+>>21974696
+If you are expecting steamy eroticism I have nothing but disappointment for you, as it was all rather casual. But sure.
+
+This was about two years ago, just after the covid restrictions were lifted, and I was staying in Perugia, a hilltop University Town. Not all that big with tourists but very picturesque. I was renting a two week long bnb, and using the city as a travel hub to other places. 
+
+Renting in the same apartment was this girl, Italian, but waiting for uni living accommodations to sort themselves out. She didn't know the city well while I was over prepared as a tourist so we walked around as I lectured her in English about the history of Oddi and Baglioni family's, which I think did wonders for my confidence as it made me feel really smart. 
+
+I think the inciting incident was she teased me about finding a condom in my wallet, and we joked about how wallets are the condoms natural habitat. Where they live, die and reproduce asexually. 
+Anyway later on we got home and started getting a bit touchy, and she said that it would be a terrible shame for that condom to never serve its purpose...
+
+Despite all that we got on really well, and she still comments on some of my Instagram posts. I think she's now either married or engaged.
+
+Good times.
+--- 21974806
+italianlads, do you have any book recs?
+from beginner to fluent stuff, if you may.
+do by all means hit me with the classics and the whole greats list.
+
+funny that i know basically everything about russian literature, and don't know a word of russian, while having no idea of italian works.
+--- 21974871
+>>21974783
+So she did everything basically? Wew, reminds me of most of my one-night stands.
+--- 21974992
+>>21974116
+Negro, stai zitto dio cane
+--- 21975034
+>>21974806
+Calvino is a good start
+For something more "ancient" Galileo's dialogue is a must
+The end goal is, of course, The Divine Comedy (fot a good and recent annoted edition i reccomand the one curated by Ossola for Marsilio)
+--- 21975040
+>>21974518
+>>21974992
+Ecco i vecchietti che leggono Repubblica/Corsera al parco.
+--- 21975128
+>>21975034
+i've got the Commedia.
+any other suggestions for classics, and entry level stuff (preferably also in the vein of classics)?
+--- 21975309
+Such a thriving thread and not a single answer =(
+--- 21975327
+>>21972547 (OP)
+Why does the civil ensign only have northern italian symbols? Are the south really that much of a bunch of niggers?
+--- 21975382
+Nuovi Argomenti
+--- 21975445
+>>21975327
+That's the symbols of the Mariner Republics, Venice, Genoa, Pisa and Amalfi.
+Amalfi isn't North under any definition.
+Pisa is in Tuscany, considered Centraly Italy by Istat
+
+Personally I don't consider any region bordering the sea "North" (North is mountains and plains), so that also excludes Venice and Genoa
+--- 21975689
+>>21972547 (OP)
+>newspaper 
+I sometimes read articles from politically aligned newspapers cause I try to get more sides of the story but I don't think you'd want to read heavily biased pieces so I suggest something like Corriere della Sera so you have more opinions. If you want something more political I can give you some ideas.
+>Magazines
+Pretty clueless about the topic, I think l'Espresso prints some good stuff but they're really leftist so it might not be what you're looking for
+--- 21975728
+Do you guys know of any Italian variants of publications like the NYRB?. I'd prefer less modern counterpart, I'm not particularly interested in newer books. Also how hard would it be to learn Spanish after Italian?
+--- 21975730
+>>21975689
+do list out other ones and their biases, kindly.
+any tips on free ones too?
+--- 21975735
+>>21972547 (OP)
+Corriere della Sera is well respected.
+--- 21975753
+>>21975728
+>Also how hard would it be to learn Spanish after Italian?
+They're very similar. It's a walk in the park once you know one of them. My native language is Spanish and I could understand 60-70% of written Italian without studying.
+--- 21975760
+>>21975689
+>'Espresso prints some good stuff but they're really leftis
+literally owned by Agnelli
+--- 21975765
+>>21975753
+portuguese speaker, same here.
+the linguistic tree probably goes latin->italian->romance languages
+--- 21975807
+>>21975730
+left:
+il manifesto
+il fatto quotidiano
+domani
+la repubblica
+right-wing:
+il foglio( I put them here but they have conservative/liberal views, I like some of their writers but they basically want to appeal to an "elite " audience)
+libero
+la verità
+
+there'also La Stampa or Sole 24 ore which is more focused on the economy.
+--- 21975814
+>>21975765
+Portuguese is even easier for me to read. I remember there was a poem that I liked by Pessoa so I bought a bilingual edition of his poetry (Portuguese-Spanish) and both versions were very, very similar to the point where I could read 80-90% percent of the original. God, I love Pessoa.
+--- 21975818
+>>21975730
+>>21975807
+also you can check their websites for some free articles, other online outlets are linkiesta and ilpost.
+if you're interested there's this telegram zttps 
+ ://t.me/ leggo_oggi03 for newspapers
+--- 21975843
+"ey lebeche beeebo! ey lebeche boobari!"
+
+The Italian language filled my head. I walked the streets of Turin in plimsols and with a tennis racket under my arm, "gaba bo ba bo!" I called, in greeting, to Signor Bamboloinini; the local Cheesesmith. He raised his strawhat and humbled himself to me, merely because I was an Englishman. My grasp of the language and mannerisms was fantastic, "bobobobobo BAAAAHry," I said, and the ladies all turned. I could have passed for an 'Tally, t'were it not for my pale blue eyes, my milk white complexion and my mane of golden lions hair. I was an Alexander, an heirophant whispering gentle muse unto the papier mache statuettes of Julian Saesar, Markham Anthony and the like. Oh, how Queen Cleopatra once ruled from these very streets, with Boudicea by her side. Lo' cross the river a Chinese Boat moored and begged my farthing.
+
+"blimbadibobobo!" I exclaimed.
+--- 21975853
+>>21975807
+grazie.
+seems like a good way to train my italian.
+
+ha suggestione de libri?
+--- 21975860
+>>21975853
+>suggestione de libri
+si, si. El go'o tu la informatthione boutique eeeee quanzo el loco de gumborino el booto tu de la pescini.
+
+agrando!
+--- 21975861
+>>21975807
+>the left wing ones are the only ones that straight up tell me i have to pay 
+ironic
+--- 21975873
+>>21975728
+>Also how hard would it be to learn Spanish after Italian?
+I knew French and Romanian and learned Italian in like a week, now I can basically read Spanish/Portuguese most of the time as long as it's not like literary fiction tier. I might throw another week or month at casually studying Spanish just so I can fake knowing it even better.
+
+Romance languages all kind of feel like dialects of the same language after a while.
+--- 21975879
+>>21975843
+kys
+>>21975861
+Just wait until you discover that none of those "left wing" newspapers actually hold left wing views
+--- 21975887
+>>21975879
+do (you) have any book recs?
+>not even left wing has left wing views
+kino
+--- 21975968
+>>21975887
+>kino
+Not really, no
+>do (you) have any book recs?
+we(dot)tl(slash)t-PohTH7yfLL
+--- 21977038
+>>21975818
+Thanks for the Telegram. 
+Sadly it doesn't have il foglio but still.
+--- 21977332
+>>21977038
+nah they do have it but I think it doesn't come out on sunday. 
+other channels you might wanna check out:
+https:(double slash)t.me/edicolitalia 
+here they publish the first pages of most major newspapers
+
+https:// t.me/ rivisteinvista has magazines but often low quality resolution

lit/21972891.txt

@@ -21,3 +21,110 @@ Yes. There's less light flashes and cringe jokes.
 I used to watch way more anime before switching to Chinese light novels...then I drowned in them...for last 6 years or so... Now I try to read "normal" books. It's hard, but I am trying.
 --- 21972964
 Not even giving a (You). Stop watching underage girls doing questionable things and pick up a book. At least people will think you're normal.
+--- 21973047
+>>21972896
+>>21972898
+>>21972964
+This is an animal board. What are you guys doing here?
+--- 21973062
+>>21972891 (OP)
+Depends on the book and the anime in question. I rather watch a great anime than read a book that's simply good and vice versa. Reading definitely has more cognitive benefits, though.
+--- 21973068
+Of course. But Chinese cartoons can be fun sometimes, too.
+--- 21973069
+>>21972904
+--- 21973072
+>>21973047
+This is the literature board meant for discussing literature. Go back to /a/ for discussing chinese cartoons.
+--- 21973076
+>>21973072
+Retard.
+--- 21973096
+>>21973076
+Kys
+--- 21973111
+>>21973076
+Tranny
+--- 21973114
+>>21973096
+>>21973111
+Go back to plebbit, neeb.
+--- 21973122
+>anime
+never
+>manga
+in some cases, yes
+--- 21973130
+>>21973114
+Go back to /a/ tranny. You will never belong here.
+--- 21973133
+>>21973130
+Currently reading about Aryan feminism. What have you achieved, pleb?
+--- 21973135
+>>21973111
+Trips of truth. Anime trannies btfo.
+--- 21973139
+>>21973133
+>>>/pol/
+--- 21973143
+>>21973139
+Says the faggot who calls other people troons for no reason.
+--- 21973153
+just do what's fun for you
+--- 21973432
+>>21972891 (OP)
+Reading my first book was like an epiphany. I discovered that no good anime ever existed, it's fast food and should never be taken too seriously.
+--- 21973780
+There are garbage and gems to be found in every medium, but generally I'd say that the luster of diamonds in literature outshines that of the quartz found in anime.
+VNs are MUCH better than anime too, if you have a hard time switching straight over to real books. Some VNs even btfo some well-regarded novels for me.
+--- 21973781
+>tranime
+Kek
+--- 21973857
+>>21973781
+Anime website
+--- 21973917
+>>21973780
+>some VNs even btfo some well regarded novels
+Which ones? Also preferably from 90's to mid 00's because I prefer that character design style
+--- 21973925
+>>21973917
+>Which ones? Also preferably from 90's to mid 00's because I prefer that character design style
+I hope that anon doesn't respond because of your bad taste.
+--- 21973936
+Watching undermines your attention span. So whether it's better or not, the answer lies on how exposed to anime you've been so far.
+--- 21973950
+SIN DUDA
+--- 21974038
+>>21973917
+I recommend Fate/Stay Night, and highly recommend Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, though you must read the former prior to the latter.
+They are 2004 and 2005 releases respectively, and the artstyle is certainly reflective of that. I find the style charming in a way, but I can see why some people might dislike it.
+Try not to let any connotations of the way Fate grew as a franchise and exists today obscure the value in the original visual novel and its sequel. I have much disdain for most media that falls under the Fate name at this point, but the VNs I found to be enjoyable and highly engaging reads in a literary way.
+Hollow Ataraxia especially has a fascinating story and structure. The characters have good depth and the themes do not beat you over the head, but are instead presented carefully and even the meta elements it has are handled with subtle grace.
+Neither are perfect all the way through though, I can admit that, but what is? 
+Each does have its own flaws, but I found that the majority of them both was well worth it and brightly outshined the parts that I felt nothing for or disliked.
+--- 21974373
+>>21974038
+Thanks, I'll definitely check it out.
+>>21973925
+>noooo you can't like what I don't like
+--- 21975170
+>>21973925
+ro
+--- 21975738
+>>21974373
+You're very welcome, hope you enjoy it. 
+There is a pre-patched English translated version of Fate/Stay Night on Nyaa.si with lots of different settings for content that people ported over from different releases, if you download that the default settings for it seem fine to me. 
+The only option I'd recommend touching at all is the one that lets you remove the sex scenes or not depending on how you feel about that. They aren't really necessary for the first two routes and feel pretty shoehorned in, but are relevant to the story in the third route.
+--- 21975859
+>>21973133
+LOTR is more historically legitimate than anything describing aryan race as anything more than a lie...
+--- 21976230
+>>21973133
+Genuinely go die in a hole, I would take a shitty bigot to transgenders over a subhuman like you
+--- 21976531
+Imo no.
+Don't get me wrong, I love books, but animation is the superior medium of story telling and artistic expression.
+--- 21976565
+>>21976531
+kek

lit/21972978.txt

@@ -4,3 +4,623 @@
 --- 21973011
 >>21972978 (OP)
 what exactly does he say?
+--- 21973059
+why do pre-97 people absolutely freak out when you say Ted is interesting like you said you read hitler before going to bed?
+--- 21973086
+>>21972978 (OP)
+Let me guess
+
+Rich guy says "Technology is better" in a very hedonistic level of gloating. He probably listed off a few assumptions that if you take all of them at face value then it would, in his mind, imply he is correct.
+--- 21973091
+>>21972978 (OP)
+David Graeber BTFO Thiel in the debate. David said that in past eccentrics/outcasts started many cool tech projects in the past. And now all of the le entrepreneurial NPCs have fucked up everything and those intelligent outcasts are rotting in their mom's basement, jerking away their lives doing nothing because government don't know what to do with them. This is why tech sucks now because profit seeking normalfag is in the charge
+
+https://youtu.be/eF0cz9OmCGw [Embed]
+--- 21973097
+>>21973091
+>And now all of the le entrepreneurial NPCs have fucked up everything and those intelligent outcasts are rotting in their mom's basement, jerking away their lives doing nothing because government don't know what to do with them.
+not wrong.
+but then again, these outcasts shouldnt be stopped by inept geriatrics
+--- 21973102
+>>21972978 (OP)
+Peter Thiel always fascinates me, because of the reverence that the modern right holds for him, and for what an analysis of this shows us about our current political landscape.
+
+Conservatism is completely dead. There is no conservative SOVL anymore, they're all bugmen who want to maximize their profits. Hardly any of the self-declared right-wingers of today are capable of engaging with their own culture, to say nothing of western culture more broadly, and the leftists that are capable of it because they actually do have training in the humanities have no interest in it beyond destroying and deconstructing it. The kind of conservative intelligentsia embodied by the hated Peter Hitchens and Roger Scruton are a very, very dying breed, beyond critically endangered, replaced EXACTLY by people like Peter Thiel who is basically just a giant faggot who desperately wants life-extension technology to give him eternal life so he can for ever take big black cocks up his ass to embody a perpetual affront and insult to God himself, symbolically turning his rebellion against his father into a promethean story of ass-fucking, where instead of having his liver eaten, he has his rectum prolapsed in perpetuity, and instead of suffering for it, he laughs girlishly in the face of God as he farts creampie after creampie out of his ruined bowels, for ever. And right-wingers laud him and consider him based. The right-wing intelligentsia is dead. It is completely fucking dead.
+
+Just take the standard /pol/nigger as an example. He will unironically come onto a literature board and argue the point that literature, and hence culture, has no """practical""" impact on society. He has the soul of a plumber and is a completely wretched being, but because of democracy, he has a voice and a vote. It is completely ridiculous, pure clown-world, an indignified sideshow.
+
+Even on the fringes, it has taken the most perverse form imaginable. Twitter-brained zoomers, raised on tablets with ontogenetically fried dopaminergic systems as a result are desperately trying necromancy on the right-wing intelligentsia by reading fucking Evola and tweeting about it, but these men are schizoid rejects and will never be the pillars of community that a conservative intellectual must be.
+
+It is beyond fucking over for anything that might be termed conservatism, and Kaczynski was right, in the same way a doctor delivering a terminal diagnosis is right. That means the disease wins. Thiel wins, but Kaczynski was right.
+--- 21973158
+>>21973097
+Outcasts are socially retarded for current urban landscape. They all grew up on internet and almost live on the Internet. In past at least they use to make weirdo communities. They don't even touch grass. 
+
+In in current normalfag landscape success=networking
+--- 21973178
+>>21973059
+Psst, anon, Austrian painter is based.
+--- 21973219
+>>21973091
+Grabber was just in general a bad understander of things. People enjoying his work is an enormous pseud alert. Debt is so riddled with factual errors that it’s basically unreadable to anyone with knowledge of economic history and history of economics.
+--- 21973230
+>>21973219
+t. entrepreneurial corporate npc
+--- 21973389
+>>21973011
+I'll fig it up later in my physical copy. Too lazy now.
+--- 21973391
+>>21973086
+Why are you being so ressentimental against the aristocracy of our tines?
+--- 21973443
+>>21973091
+>watches 3 minutes of thiel
+>other guy responds using the term "re imagining"
+Yea he's a total npc normie with no original thoughts. Done.
+--- 21973444
+>>21973102
+>soul of a plumber
+Possible this is still leaps and bounds ahead of you?
+--- 21973455
+>>21973091
+Thiel is more masculine and he is a fag. Why does that guy talk like that? Another failed theater kid that became an academic?
+--- 21973456
+>>21973102
+Pretty much this. The techno-capital singularity has infiltrated every corner of politics and everything is just dead meat for the materialist sycophants of the system to feast upon. There is nothing of value to hope for at this point.
+--- 21973459
+>>21973456
+Do people really just give up like you?
+I operate in the same world as you yet I plant a garden, raise chickens, grow blackberries and etc.
+--- 21973461
+>>21973011
+Nothing crazy. OP just wants to discuss Ted without being accused of making the same, boring thread.
+>Most people act as if there were no secrets left to find. An extreme representative of this view is Ted Kaczynski, infamously known as the Unabomber. Kaczynski was a child prodigy who enrolled at Harvard at 16. He went on to get a PhD in math and become a professor at UC Berkeley. But you’ve only ever heard of him because of the 17-year terror campaign he waged with pipe bombs against professors, technologists, and businesspeople. In late 1995, the authorities didn’t know who or where the Unabomber was. The biggest clue was a
+35,000-word manifesto that Kaczynski had written and anonymously mailed to the press. The FBI asked some prominent newspapers to publish it, hoping for a break in the case. It worked: Kaczynski’s brother recognized his writing style and turned him in. You might expect that writing style to have shown obvious signs of insanity, but the manifesto is eerily cogent. Kaczynski claimed that in order to be happy, every individual “needs to have goals whose attainment requires effort, and needs to succeed in attaining at least some of his goals.” He divided human goals into three groups:
+>1. Goals that can be satisfied with minimal effort;
+>2. Goals that can be satisfied with serious effort; and
+>3. Goals that cannot be satisfied, no matter how much effort one makes.
+>This is the classic trichotomy of the easy, the hard, and the impossible. Kaczynski argued that modern people are depressed because all the world’s hard problems have already been solved. What’s left to do is either easy or impossible, and pursuing those tasks is deeply unsatisfying. What you can do, even a child can do; what you can’t do, even Einstein couldn’t have done. So Kaczynski’s idea was to destroy existing institutions, get rid of all technology, and let people start over and work on hard problems anew. Kaczynski’s methods were crazy, but his loss of faith in the technological frontier is all around us. Consider the trivial but revealing hallmarks of urban hipsterdom: faux vintage photography, the handlebar mustache, and vinyl record players all hark back to an earlier time when people were still optimistic about the future. If everything worth doing has already been done, you may as well feign an allergy to achievement and become a barista.
+--- 21973462
+>>21973444
+no
+--- 21973469
+>>21973461
+This sounds like a copy/pasted government version of what happened.
+>The FBI asked some prominent newspapers to publish it
+Is this like when you say "when I broke up with my gf" to someone years later and they for sure know she broke up with you.
+--- 21973474
+>>21973462
+I think so.
+Your rambling and disdain for people you assume yourself better than wreaks of a teen with angst who's never done much real work or experienced much of the world.
+Keep reading. I'm sure you'll figure it out.
+--- 21973490
+>>21973455
+>Thiel is more masculine
+just suck a dick already
+--- 21973491
+>>21973461
+Someone beat me to it, bumping this.
+--- 21973506
+>>21972978 (OP)
+Honestly the Promethean-right is the most sensible these days. The problem with the Traditionalists, Paleocons, and such is that they have no real practicum of governance. One they gain any power, they don't use that power to any end. This is a sickness which paralyzes virtually all of conservatism. While almost any faction of the Right can win debates against the left and liberals with relative ease, due to their greater focus on the past, their weakness is still their focus on the past. Without a philosophy of the future, there is no value to holding power, to seriously combating alternative ideologies. Without any concern for the future, all eyes turn to the present, and petty infighting stall them until they lose their power.
+--- 21973509
+>>21973506
+Quick rundown on the "Promethean-right"?
+--- 21973534
+>>21973506
+The Catholic/Orthodox right is the best.
+--- 21973543
+>>21973509
+Pretty much this >>21973102
+--- 21973567
+>>21973543
+>>21973102
+Did it ever occur to you that the "modern right' is a front for leftists and commies?
+Doesn't that at least make sense as being plausible?
+
+It's at least as plausible that they are faux right than that they are actually right but then never follow through with their beliefs.
+In fact, would seem more likely to me they are a front.
+Right wing people are typically very good at following through with shit in my experience.
+The idea one becomes governor or some higher up position and doesn't follow through makes no sense.
+
+What makes sense is that the right is feared and the folks presented publicly as "right" are actually commies.
+Why? Maybe because they behave like them when in power?
+
+Don't want to offend too much, but maybe read a little deeper into what you are really experiencing.
+
+Please both of you name a "modern right" person. Lets' examine.
+--- 21973575
+>>21973102
+If someone is a plumber for his day job why does that imply that he is a philistine and doesn't go to the opera or read decent books? In certain areas plumbing is quite a good earning.
+
+Thiel knows technology can fix real issues such as energy sufficiency.
+--- 21973645
+>>21973534
+No they're not. They just LARP as scholars, bicker about protestants, and then default to the most basic conservative positions when political issues arise. And a large chunk of the time, they pick the most unpragmatic position for theological reasons. Mere religion isn't a vehicle for national success anymore. The only prospering countries are eastern ones which mix atheism and syncretic Eastern religions.
+
+>>21973509
+Re-embracing many individualist notions that most abandoned as part of the libertarian -> far-right pipeline. Accepting technology and even many elements of transhumanism. A highly pragmatic approach to politics. It's not actually contradictory with many reactionary things, in fact all those kings and Emperors who waged war against the Papacy while claiming to be Catholic are more representative of the Promethean than the Catholic. If you want to go full schizo, read Jorjani.
+--- 21973648
+>>21973456
+>>21973102
+>>Conservatism is completely dead. There is no conservative SOVL anymore, they're all bugmen who want to maximize their profits. Hardly any of the self-declared right-wingers of today are capable of engaging with their own culture, to say nothing of western culture more broadly, and the leftists that are capable of it because they actually do have training in the humanities have no interest in it beyond destroying and deconstructing it.
+you guys are fucking insane. like any amerifat you believe history started in 1945. The reality is that this liberal elite has been in charge since 1649 and their Commonwealth, and their mores have not changed one bit since then.
+
+breaking news:
+-it is the bourgeois revolutionaries who created classical liberalism, in order to promote a society based on commerce and atheism by killing kings and priests
+-it is the bourgeois revolutionaries who created new liberalism, in order to promote a society based on commerce and atheism by killing kings and priests
+
+isnt it weird normies cant see the same people created the two political poles that normies fight for?
+
+And guess what:classical liberalism started 3 CENTURIES AGO. NOT DECADES, FUCKING CENTURIES.
+democratic republics were build by the bourgeois revolutionaries precisely to have a confluence between merchants (in finance and entertainment) and bureaucrats, ie they are both members of the bourgeois caste.
+the dichotomy classical-new liberalism is completely fake in the first place. historically,
+-rightists= monarchists
+-leftists = republicans
+guess what happens to the right when there is no more king because the bourgeois killed him. the answer is that the right becomes the left and there is only the choice between bourgeois and bourgeois lol and the bourgeois revolution is achieved whose only goal was dodging monarchist taxes........hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
+it's like the ''''''''''''''''''''american people'''''''''''''''''''''' was a just gimmick to seize power and create a society based on global mercantilism...
+rebels without a cause...
+--- 21973653
+>>21973567
+>>Did it ever occur to you that the "modern right' is a front for leftists and commies?
+there is no modern right. '"Right'' doesn't even exists in a republic. The whole point of a republic is too remove the kings and then it's all 100% bourgeoisie artificially divided into leftism and rightism..
+--- 21973660
+>>21973219
+Reddit: the post
+--- 21973663
+>>21973660
+Reddit loves sucking Graeber's slowly decaying cock though
+--- 21973707
+>>21973653
+Well I would agree with this.
+But presumably the people talking about it have a definition and a person they think would represent "the right".
+
+I am personally very centrist in that I am for complete government control of everything.
+--- 21973729
+>>21973102
+Pretty dispiriting post but hard to argue with.
+--- 21973740
+>>21973219
+throw me some examples of the factual errors in Debt.
+--- 21973741
+>>21973648
+OK, sure, but how does that disprove anything that >>21973102 said?
+--- 21973742
+>>21973091
+Both were possessed by a demonic drive in either case.
+--- 21973763
+>>21973648
+No shit nigger they assign Gulliver's Travels and Mark Twain in school
+--- 21973764
+>>21973102
+So what do you think genuinely conservative-minded people should do in light of the undignified nature of things? Ernst Junger, an author I care about a lot, seemed to think we should basically drop out and pursue things like art and self-sufficiency from the system. I don’t know if I find this appealing, or even possible, but it’s hard to disagree that there’s more dignity in that than in other pursuits. I spent most of my life sort of apathetic about things, and basically just going through the motions, but free men can’t live like that forever.
+--- 21973769
+>>21973459
+It sounds like you’ve dropped out. That’s not quite giving up but it’s nearer to it. Do you find that lifestyle is worthwhile? Are you single?
+--- 21973777
+>>21973648
+What you’re living through is not liberalism. Something happened starting in the late 19th century that liberalism merely paved the way for and the world wars blew the doors off. Technology changed everything and it seems to me that the world you inhabit today is simply nothing like the world your liberal forefathers of the 17th and 18th centuries inhabited. So this tall about monarchists and liberals and all that, while true, seems to miss something more obvious.
+--- 21973783
+>>21973102
+Your anger seemed to prevent you from making any point
+--- 21973784
+>>21973763
+Not for at least 20 years.
+--- 21973803
+>>21973769
+I think you really just made some commentary on yourself here buddy. I mean whew, from my perspective, what you just said reveals A LOT about YOU.
+Man.
+
+Because in reality my wife is an MD, I run a business with 12 employees, we have two children and another a month away.
+
+So you see, your oddly precise and pessimistic projection is quite telling of something and I wish you well in the world and hope you figure it out as time goes on.
+--- 21973814
+>>21973506
+I think the so-called traditionalist right correctly understands that there is no desirable outcome within the context of modernity. Power doesn’t mean you have Roman legions anymore. In 2023 power means an elite cadre of software engineers (male, female, or other since the software does not need one or the other nor does it care) to program your predator drones. The technological race to the bottom seems fundamentally at odds with conservatism and especially traditional.
+--- 21973816
+>>21973803
+It was a simple question from a place of sincere interest. I meant no offense.
+--- 21973820
+>>21973816
+I took none. Because it was SO FAR OFF from reality.
+I want you to reflect on why you were making those assumptions. What can you learn here?
+Just trying to help a fledgling edgelord become an eventual man here.
+--- 21973828
+>>21973764
+I would pose this to >>21973456 also. 
+
+>>21973645
+I think the idea that you can reach any sort of “conservatism”, nevermind traditionalism via technology or trans humanism seems to me a delusion. Technology needs technicians. It doesn’t need or want your gender. It certainly doesn’t care about your religion or your politics.
+--- 21973835
+>>21973820
+I mean, if you’re homesteading you’re in a process of dropping out, which is obviously nearer to giving up on civilization that participating in it. Other than that, I simply posed two questions. I’m not sure what triggered you so badly.
+--- 21973849
+>>21973784
+I read those in 2015. Sure they're presented in the purest American public school way possible, but if you can't out-think a high school English teacher you're ngmi.
+--- 21973852
+>>21973835
+The assumption you made is that having any sort of enjoyable and productive operations means you are dropping out and single.
+In your head the simple things I said precluded having a family and necessitated dropping out of society.
+
+I posit your questions revealed a perverted worldview. Possibly by jews.
+--- 21973862
+>>21973835
+Homestead projects do the exact opposite of removing you from the people around you. Might as well give everyone you know eggs and honey.
+--- 21973872
+>>21973820
+It is so painfully obvious that you're offended lmao. The absolute lack of self awareness...
+--- 21973873
+>>21973474
+>>21973575
+If you would just read the post again, and consider the sentence that comes before "soul of a plumber", and then consider why the turn of phrase "soul" of a plumber was chosen, rather than just plumber, I'm sure you'll get there.
+--- 21973880
+>>21973506
+Where do I subscribe to your newsletter. I need to discuss this with like-minded individuals.
+--- 21973888
+>>21973852
+No, I didn’t make that assumption. But just forget it. If you don’t want to answer my questions then don’t. 
+
+>>21973862
+I wasn’t implying otherwise. The point I was making is that moving to the country and homesteading is almost the complete opposite of contributing to technological civilization. By pursuing self-sufficiency in homesteading, you’re disconnecting yourself from this civilization. That’s not to say you don’t have a community or friends or something, only that it works toward a different end than say, a Silicon Valley software engineer.
+--- 21973894
+>>21973567
+>>21973648
+>point is that it is beyond over for conservatism
+>hAve U cOnSidErEd tHaT tHeRe ArEn'T aNy cOnSerVatIvEs aNd thAt iT iS oVeR fOr cOnSeRvAtives? 
+Bruhs
+--- 21973913
+Honestly you guys I don't get the point of this whole discussion. Everything is going to sort itself out in no time, so don't sweat it. Just wait and enjoy the show.
+--- 21973927
+>>21973913
+You really believe that? Even if true, we have lives to live in the meantime.
+--- 21973935
+>>21973894
+I was obviously referring to public figures and even stated that outright.
+The point being that the opposition has promoted leftists as "right wing" for years.
+Can George Bush really be called "right wing"? And Obama?
+>>21973888
+Checked and you know you did.
+--- 21973952
+>>21973935
+The American Right and Left are both left wing because they are founded in a socio-cultural context that values capital above all else. The ability to exchange tokens of labor value for consumer products and services is a liberalizing force. The European Right has always been grounded in a historical/traditional/cultural value system which is a genuinely conservative force. America has no such historical or cultural context and the tradition of Protestantism (if such exists) is wholly undercooked.
+--- 21973954
+>>21973935
+No, I didn’t.
+--- 21973961
+Peter Thiel is a Randian character come to life
+--- 21974021
+>>21973954
+Even if you think you didn't assume those things, then you need to examine why your views have been perverted to basically say "What are you a NEET incel?"
+What are you picking up around this place and from the internet in general that your questions were essential "Are you a NEET incel?"
+--- 21974030
+>>21973814
+You're right about the changing nature of power. It's definitely important to understand that a proper takeover would be closer to mandating party-members on corporate boards and giving them first-selection in hiring for important positions, sort of like China does. The military is almost inconsequential once you have enough strength to ensure your continued sovereignty. But where we disagree is your total rejection of modernity. I think that the state is responsible for creating vehicles, positions, and hierarchies that the people live in. Properly made, these structures can be the vehicle wherein people's identities are actualized. Basically a rightist state should create a real-world RPG and the various jobs, guilds, and unlocks you achieve will allow you to express traditional ideas as well as your humanity.
+
+>>21973880
+I don't have one, and even if I did you should find someone less retarded to talk to. Never really found any communities to talk about this, but a lot of people on the right - consciously or not - embrace many of these ideas.
+--- 21974041
+>>21973461
+>Goals that cannot be satisfied, no matter how much effort one makes.
+No such thing. An enormous sudden attack against the electrical grid would collapse any western nation and would be irreversible.
+
+With the correct planning and only 100 people within 5 minutes 20 billion+ dollars of damage could be done by specifically targeting the high voltage 330+ kilo volt transformers found within electrical substations using thermite drones. After such an attack these same people could then begin to attack the high voltage power lines themselves and then start lighting fires all over the country.
+
+Good luck replacing 200+ high voltage custom built transformers when the fires themselves would last 3+ days each because of the amount of oil within them. This is entirely possible. Read "Blackout Wars" by Peter Pry.
+--- 21974044
+>>21973927
+Yes, and you can't change anything so might as well sit back and see what happens right?
+--- 21974055
+>>21973828
+I think a lot of the problems we're having with technology are due to us not actually addressing its side-effects. Yes, there have been some attempts to praise mothers, foot- soldiers, and people who drive stick; but not actual structural reform to reify Traditional ideas. And should these ideas truly be too weak to live in an advanced world, that only proves their inferiority and uselessness.
+--- 21974058
+>>21974044
+I suppose, but I find that attitude intolerable somehow and that lifestyle really unappealing.
+--- 21974059
+>>21974041
+Now if only you could find 100 people who were
+>willing to do this
+>capable of performing their allotted tasks without screwing them up due to retardation
+>capable of keeping it a secret instead of babbling about it where The Man can hear
+--- 21974060
+>>21974021
+He's still right. Going the self-sufficieny route IS dropping out or escaping from civilization. It is going out of your way to avoid the influence of our society. It is to turn a blind eye to what is happening and enjoy what is left while you can. Soon enough, political and economic forces will make your lifestyle an impossibility, and the potential ways of preventing that all require deep interaction with society. Note that I'm not talking about the few dozen farmers you know when I say society but rather mainstream society at large.
+--- 21974064
+>>21974060
+But my wife is a doctor and I have an ecommerce business.
+Are you two faggots really attempting to say that if you do ANYTHING that hasn't been assumed to be "solved" by modern technological process and division of labor that I am "dropping out of society?"
+
+And that it is akin to being a literal dropped out neet incel?
+This is quite interesting if so.
+--- 21974069
+>>21974030
+I just think that’s very idealistic thinking. I share your desire guilds and traditional lifestyles and the like but to me the idea that you can get there by wielding technology like Roman emperors wielded the sword (and you would have to do this) is a fantasy. Ernst Junger turned me onto this way of thinking. Consider how romantic it is to imagine “a real-world RPG” in a world where soldiers fight with drones and tanks take videos of their kills like snuff films. There’s no dignity in that. There’s nothing traditional about that. In my mind, the cat is out of the bag so to speak and a technological society will necessarily elevate and be governed by technocrats and propped up by mere technicians.
+--- 21974073
+>>21974055
+You can’t address the side effects. When you invent the car you invent the car crash.
+--- 21974074
+>>21973645
+>Re-embracing many individualist notions that most abandoned as part of the libertarian -> far-right pipeline. Accepting technology and even many elements of transhumanism.
+
+Satan runs the world, this is the real dichotomy, not left vs. right but Satan vs. anti- or non-Satan. The CIA-Rockefeller-owned-Skull-and-Bones Bushes (from Prescott to H.W. to Dubya) are Satan, Obama and Biden and the Clintons are Satan, Soros and the Rothschilds are Satan, Klaus Schwab is Satan, the Third Reich were Satan, any type of extremist anti-humanism on either “side” is pretty much Satan. Ayn Rand was Satan and Karl Marx was Satan. Left and right, as conventionally applied to political figures, are more like the two hands of Satan firmly grasping and squeezing your testicles in a vice-grip.
+
+The Woke are Satan, some of the far-right extremists are Satan (when they’re actually that and not just occasional good or conscientious people smeared with that term for holding verboten views), and both groups have been extensively manipulated to have the reactions they have.
+
+Some type of neo-Randian libertarian-rightism that glorifies the wealthy, the business-owners, technology, AI, and the possibilities of transhumanism will just be another form of Satan to institute more feudal-style control over the masses, more total surveillance and control, the same way the USSR was Satan or and China from Mao till today is Satan. 
+
+What we need to do is remove the Satanists somehow, but that can hardly be done because (rough guess) at least 2/3rds (66.6% repeating) of the population anywhere is subhuman, as if “unsouled,” a subhuman populace which can easily be lead by the inhuman demonic elite to support anti-human policies and their own enslavement. (This 2/3rds vs 1/3rd split is a very neat one that repeatedly shows up, it’s not perfect but as a rule of thumb, about 1 in 3 people will have at least some skepticism toward mainstream narratives, and 2/3rds easily led around the nose by them). Hence, the same people being abused by their leaders will defend their leaders to the death and view people going against them as “the evil ones.”
+
+>>21974060
+Good. There’s no use trying to stick up for and “save” people who don’t want to be saved. The Thoreau’s-Walden/Kacyznski’s-anarcho-primitivism (while leeching off society for whatever resources I’d need be) (and except without some big terror attack to draw useless attention to yourself) is the best option today if you still have something reminiscent of a “soul” within you. Just fuck off from civilization and become self-sufficient. Also vide: Hakim Bey on ontological anarchy and escape from Babylon.
+--- 21974075
+>>21974059
+Pretty much any person could do it as they would only be controlling drones. You could have someone in Latvia log into the drone remotely, plant the thermite and then detonate it at a specific time wherein all the thermite would be detonated. So the whole thing goes out within seconds of each other.
+
+Read the book. He explains exactly how this can be done and how devastating it would be. The most difficult part by far is finding people who can keep their mouths shut and would be -willing- to do it. 10 people can plant all of the drones while the others in different countries detonate them. It's way easier than you think.
+
+I don't know if you talk to people under the age of 25 but I've had zoomers tell me, quote, "I don't care if I live or die, I'll never own a home". This statement is echoed by many other zoomers within my country. Based on this we can say that a particularly interested person could easily radicalize and use these zoomers as drone operators to execute such a plan.
+--- 21974077
+>>21974021
+Nobody called you a NEET or incel you nutter. You’re being paranoid.
+--- 21974080
+>>21974075
+I don't doubt the physical possibility of performing this but the human element is always the weakest link
+--- 21974089
+>>21974080
+I agree with you
+--- 21974139
+>>21974069
+We can already see the prototype of the real-world RPG in things such as politics. There are different offices with different powers and abilities of getting elected. Oftentimes there is a progression such as representative to senator. It may appear trite to have these things now, but that's because it's living a reality we aren't currently living. Look at monarchism. Under monarchies, they are seen as natural; but when monarchies disappear, they seem comical, and kings came and went and this cycle continued. As these Traditional ideas are integrated into the structure of society, you will see it naturally accepted. If things such as technology make them feel arbitrary, it is because they haven't been vested with enough real world importance. The goal of these positions and institutions is to actualize humanity. If it didn't feel ridiculous to implement, it would be a sign that humanity is in no need of actualizing.
+
+>>21974073
+Ted himself escaped to the wilderness. This alone proves that technology doesn't banish traditional humanity like light does darkness. The Amish even do this en-masse. This is proof that human will is stronger than technological forces. That liberal and communist governments created an arbitrary society that can only focus on increasing wealth does not disprove that a foundationally illiberal society can still maintain much of the freedom and spirit of the Traditional world. The reason governments like Iran struggle to actually do this is because they try to rule with force from the top. Instead, we, like the Confucian, should rule from the top, middle, and center. Everyone would live in it and desire it. It would be as self-evident as running powerlines from house to house to give everyone electricity.
+
+>>21974074
+You're thinking too much in terms of good and evil. This is a symptom of weakness. If you wish to truly rule, you must look past good and evil and instead consider how useful something is. A fool sees an unruly animal and slays it to restore peace. A ruler sees and unruly animal and places it at a mill where it merely behaving in its nature and moving around will serve his ends. Is this not what your God does with His Devil, whom He may well destroy at any moment? This is Your world. Seize it by the throat, make Fate itself bow to your will. There is no good and evil in Your reality, only useful and useless.
+--- 21974180
+>>21974139
+You mean Ted tried to escape to the wilderness before the technological system encroached on his dwelling and he snapped. His entire philosophy is almost about the failure to escape.
+--- 21974188
+>>21974030
+>Basically a rightist state should create a real-world RPG and the various jobs, guilds, and unlocks you achieve will allow you to express traditional ideas as well as your humanity. 
+I like where you're going with that, but I just see it being subsumed by the technocracy as another conduit of dopaminergic unitizing of men, ultimately defeating the purpose. We can't turn away from the technocracy, and should think of it as a self-perpetuating system rather than a cabal of shady puppeteers. Even if we "mandate party-members on corporate boards" (which is a very good idea) the subversive nature of tech will still be with us.
+There's a very real understanding among traditionalists that we can't reverse things to an ideal age, so the question becomes how do we shape the era ahead of us? You're very much on to something in trying to synthesize tech with traditionalist modes of being through psychological conditioning, and you have expressed it well on an anonymous image board in a few paragraphs. I appreciate your pragmatism and it's needed in these types of discussions, is what I'm trying to say. Too many on /lit/ have been brain raped by Uncle Ted and we need more variety.
+--- 21974199
+>>21974139
+I’m sorry to say this but this is just so ridiculous to me, this talk of RPGs. Western politics is more absurd and undignified than it’s ever been. That different titles for various office functions exist doesn’t matter at all. None of these really address the issue of addressing the effects of technology on human life. You can call a soldier a centurion and pretend it’s a fun little meaningful RPG if you want, but if his job is program predator drones from a trailer 1,000 miles away, it’s just bullshit, isn’t it? And if you try to make him an actual centurion he’ll be blown to smithereens by a predator drone. This is the problem.
+--- 21974268
+>>21974188
+Seconding this. Riding the Tiger is the only option, even if you're not an acolyte of Evola specifically. Either we take control of the capital and technocracy in order to reign its expansion into a moral trajectory or it will harness us.
+--- 21974277
+>>21974268
+Reminder all you have to do is minor things like imposing term limits to throw the existing elites out of their existing equilibrium, which has made them weak and complacent anyway
+--- 21974294
+>>21974188
+In a technological society, the elites are technocrats. Period. We don’t have a system where new parties form and stand chances of winning elections. The parties select curated or proven individuals. This is why the right is stuck looking for leadership from figures like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk. Traditionalist thinking and technocratic thinking are probably just fundamentally juxtaposed with one another in the end.
+--- 21974305
+>>21973219
+Didn't he also use a Twitter poll from his own feed as "evidence" for Bullshit Jobs?
+--- 21974307
+>>21974277
+Yeah, surely wealthy businessmen, their Ivy League lawyers, and the technocrats wouldn’t find a way back into office in a society such as this…
+--- 21974317
+>>21974277
+If you think the majority of the modern elite class is even superficially elected you are ignorant beyond saving.
+--- 21974361
+>>21974041
+There are plenty of anprims that would have already done that it it was that easy.
+--- 21974375
+>>21973567
+This is the case and why I stopped reading the post you’re responding to when he said the modern right reveres this fag.
+--- 21974391
+>>21974188
+There's undeniably a risk of it failing. It could be a failure from the start. It could be subverted. The next generation may forget our principles. But even if it does fail, it would still be a useful structure because it allows us to create an illiberal, non-democratic republic that still incorporates political-representation and meritocracy. And by creating a new founding principle on anti-alienation, future generations may take up the mantle. They may have opportunities we don't. Just as liberal regimes pursue democracy and communist ones pursue the proletarian vanguard, our generations would internalize the quest for a pro-human state and pursue it with just as much vigor. And it wouldn't matter if we fail. The liberals and communists obviously failed and only give lip-service to their founding principles, but there are still many true-believers.
+
+>>21974199
+I understand your cynicism completely. But don't fixate too much on the form of these roles. What matters is them allowing individuals freedom of action and identity, not whether they wield a gladius or a logitech keyboard.
+
+>>21974277
+>term limits
+Hard disagree. This actually worsens the problem because it gives more power to electoral machines rather than individual politicians. There's an endless rotation of attorneys happy to do a stint in office. There aren't many Ron Pauls or Paul Gosars. Remember that if we are to truly rule, term limits will hurt us just as much as it hurts them - but they can withstand blows much easier than we can, sort of like how large businesses support raising the minimum wage and increasing regulations because their smaller competitors can't withstand the impact as well as they can. It's also good that they sit around receiving promotions on seniority. It means they'll be growing ever-weaker and never learn to actually solve problems. When they face a problem they can't just order to go away, they will use disproportionate amounts of force. Playing on their inefficiencies is key here. They will grow more and more incompetent, and more and more dependent on a fragile interconnected web of resources, institutions, etc, which are all weak-spots that if destroyed or hijacked would do more damage to them than us. What we need then is a vehicle to make ourselves stronger. Brutal meritocracy, elevation of the strong and brilliant over the weak mediocre, casting down the leader for the usurper. In time, the situation would grow so desperate that we'd be all but invited to rule the country.
+--- 21974408
+>>21974391
+I don't mean term limits are the answer to everything. What I mean is, they fuck up whoever is currently reliant on NOT having term limits. Ultimately the goal is to use the democratic system against itself and allow an actual elite to form. But in the meantime there's no reason not to act like the Sorelian syndicalists and use the system against itself.
+--- 21974463
+>>21974408
+>What I mean is, they fuck up whoever is currently reliant on NOT having term limits. Ultimately the goal is to use the democratic system against itself and allow an actual elite to form.
+I'm not sure I see the value in this though. Senile people like Biden and Feinstein help us a lot more. You might create competition among the elites by forcing them to fight over seats more often, but that only strengthens the elites by selecting for the more able, which is the exact opposite of what we want. And if we want to create a new elite with financial and political power, we would want to hold any seat possible for as long as possible because politicians are able to help each other get elected. Term limits give us a hard time limit of building our political network. Meanwhile, a single good politician in, say, Alabama, could stay in office for half a century and guarantee that we have a presence in his state as well as someone legitimate to promote our cause in other districts. Thiel just accomplished this with Senator Vance in Ohio - a state that recently became solidly red.
+--- 21974523
+>>21974139
+> If you wish to truly rule, you must look past good and evil and instead consider how useful something is.
+
+While I accept your point about how corny and old-fashioned bringing up concepts like “good and evil” sounds in this increasingly post-death-of-God society, this is still a big “if.” Who in their right minds would want to rule over this soulless junk-heap where it’s even a controversy whether preteens should be allowed to have their genitalia or breasts surgically removed and be put on hormone blockers? Where all the philosophical elitist critiques in the West of the nature of the “masses” (Kierkegaard on the press and on leveling, Nietzsche on the herd, Heidegger on das Man), is only going to be ramped up to 11 in applicability with the rise of the raised-by-TikTok (or even raised-by-4chan) Gen-Z and beyond? 
+
+While I have great sympathy for this Tantric/Nietzschean idea of “harnessing your drives and desires which are seen as ‘evil’ instead of just trying to suppress or fight against them,” and it definitely has some applicability in politics and culture, the issue is that this potentially uplifting process has already been knowingly hijacked by the elected and unelected “elites” (corporations, Big Tech CEOs, bankers, globalist NGOs, the media, education system, etc.) as in “The Report From Iron Mountain”, a document which is if nothing else, a superbly well-written and astute hoax/satire. The masses and the economy are geared toward some form of “war” perpetually fueling them, whether war against terrorists (foreign or domestic, Islam or the far-right), or substitute wars in the form of the battle against viruses, against disinformation, against environmental pollution, and the like.
+
+This is something that seems fated, irreversibly destined, already having been put in motion by too many actors in power and hence needing to come to its apocalyptic conclusion before enough people have any chance of “waking up” and trying to stop it. 
+
+>The heavily footnoted report concluded that peace was not in the interest of a stable society, that even if lasting peace "could be achieved, it would almost certainly not be in the best interests of society to achieve it." War was a part of the economy. Therefore, it was necessary to conceive a state of war for a stable economy. The government, the group theorized, would not exist without war, and nation states existed in order to wage war. War served the vital function of diverting collective aggression. They recommended "credible substitutes" and paying a "blood price" to emulate the economic functions of war. Prospective government-devised alternatives to war included reports of alien life-forms, the reintroduction of a "euphemized form" of slavery "consistent with modern technology and political processes", and - one deemed particularly promising in gaining the attention of the malleable masses - the threat of "gross pollution of the environment".
+--- 21974559
+>>21973740
+Brad Delong has several posts going through it e.g. https://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2013/01/the-very-last-david-graeber-post.html
+--- 21974565
+>>21973660
+Hey look, a poor
+--- 21974699
+>>21974523
+>Who in their right minds would want to rule over this soulless junk-heap
+There's more to it than having power for power's sake; though I do fully welcome the pursuit of power. We are not just good politicians who struggle to win elections. It is our place in this world to rule, just as a father rules his children, as the strong animal rules the weaker. When we rule, we restore the natural order of winnowing the inferior and the weak, and propagating the strong. We are not just their governors, senators, presidents, kings, even. We are their saviors. Only we can create a great world and end the decline of the envy-driven collective of inferiors. We few who penetrate into good and evil, light and darkness, who fall into the depths of our own psyches, who embrace all our desires, ambitions, and emotions free of slave-morality. The whole of the Traditional order was such that the masses served under their ideologies of restraint and obedience while the Pharaohs and Emperors and priests who knew the mysteries engaged in every act of sin and hedonism possible.
+--- 21974716
+*DESTROYS the Unabomber and saves America by taking cock in his ASS*
+--- 21974769
+>>21974077
+You defaulted to living alone and being a drop out of society.
+Just cope with that being a commentary on your thinking.
+These activities I described are rarely if ever done by neet incel dropouts.
+Yet that was your default thinking.
+--- 21974926
+>>21973506
+>the Promethean-right
+wonder what kind of faggotry this is
+--- 21974939
+>>21974769
+I just asked if you’re single. You then flew off the handle, and were the first to mention “NEET incel” by the way.
+--- 21974945
+>>21974391
+The point is that if they’re wielding a Logitech then genuine freedom and identity is an impossibility.
+--- 21975004
+>>21974699
+>we
+What we? By statistical chance, sure, there may be bound to be some people who one day get into power and happened to have been 4chan browsers from youth, but how many of us? And how much impact can we make when the majority has been long propagandized to turn against such “dangerous and insane dissenters and potential terrorists” and a whole elite clique (including the journalists) is geared to viciously attacking, smearing, defaming, twisting the words of, and sometimes simply outright censoring those who rock the boat enough?
+
+>we are their saviors
+
+How do you “save” people who don’t want to be saved, in fact even think that there’s nothing to be “saved” from except perhaps being saved from people like (YOU) yourself?
+--- 21975022
+>>21973102
+100% true, this is why conservatards are a disease to any genuine rightwinger who does not covet the corporate cock. The fact that people on the right revere the man who eats and gets fucked in the ass and eats cum is such a fucking joke. The American right, barring some scant exceptions, is a big fucking joke.
+--- 21975028
+>>21974939
+I said "NEET incel" because YOU didn't.
+That's the point. You have been pervaded by NEET incel thinking and you don't even realize because you use different language.
+Jews have ruined your mind.
+Reflect.
+--- 21975045
+>>21972978 (OP)
+r8 his shelf /lit/bros
+--- 21975052
+>>21973059
+Ted's ideas would have required killing far more people than Hitler if implementing fully.
+--- 21975083
+>>21975052
+I don't think that's much of a factor for what makes a thinker stigmatized.
+--- 21975114
+>>21972978 (OP)
+I don't care for Ted, because his ideology is that of a dead end. He should have fucked off to the woods and lived there and died.
+--- 21975131
+>>21975028
+You’re nuts, dude. I just asked if you’re single.
+--- 21975146
+>>21973648
+I think people need to accept that the Overton window shifted in the 19th and 20th century. The free and open liberal enlightenment thinkers of yesteryear are the radical conservatives of the post-progressive era, and those original conservatives that defended crown and aristocracy are extinct. It feels almost silly to talk about kings in a world covered with fast food chains and cars and dating apps and snuff films from Ukraine.
+--- 21975239
+>>21973534
+That’s not incompatible with the promethean right
+>>21973509
+>>21973645 is Barry half-right. The promethean right is really just a right-aligned (that is, opposes critical theory/has a positive view of cultural and historic past development of humanity) desire for a long-term sustainable ethic. They are not ‘right’ wing in the common American sense in that they usually care very little for modern ‘culture wars’ (on the small scale), and especially don’t care for capitalism. They have a myriad influences, many of which are religious- Leo XIII’s economic views, Tolkien’s aesthetics, all align with this right-utopia. Dichotomously, though, they also support scientific and technological progress. For an accessible /lit/ example, you can site Frank Herbert’s explorations of politics in Dune. Herbert was a right-winger by association, but his criticism of linguistic and cultural presuppositions in favor of a perennial human ethic, exploration of Buddhism, and positive (though cautious) attitude towards substance use make him very different.
+--- 21975252
+>>21973059
+Because social evolution only works if the average member believes the social group is a necessity for survival. To suggest Revolution is to be dangerous and insane. It’s really not their fault; they just presuppose their society’s basis is the only one.
+--- 21975274
+>>21974030
+Discord servers are so faggoty but I feel like they’re the only reliable way to get together. This has been a really, great thread. How many anons are actually here in this discussion? I hope it’s more than just 3 or 4.
+--- 21975323
+>>21974408
+>>21974277
+>>21974391
+I'd argue the structure of term limitations will worsen a corporation-subsumed failed democracy (not failed state) like America. There is no longer incentive to create a project that continues change, no need for an ideological belief or demonstrable results. When you destroy those two foundations of belief- pure belief and seeing- you abolish all reason to believe, and open the floodgates for infinite self-interested profiteers, stooges, and bureaucrats to flood your position. Maybe you want it to get worse before it can get better- but the issue with that is you can never know how much worse it will get.
+--- 21975543
+thiel gets so much hate because hes completely correct that rising above competition, instead of being in it, is how success actually occurs
+--- 21975577
+>>21973648
+post country
+--- 21975603
+>tfw Ted only ever got caught because his own brother snitched him out
+>fedniggers spent 50 million dollars and weren't even close to figuring it out
+--- 21975608
+>>21975274
+I got filtered by telegram. Discord was okay for a bit but they got pretty bad with censorship over the years and it's hard to find a server not filled with trannies.
+--- 21975743
+>>21975146
+Taleb is not so dismissive of aristocrcy in the original sense, where they have to prove themselves over and over via risk exposure.
+--- 21975752
+>>21975608
+I have a telegram but I have no idea how it works. I also am not one of the original discussors here, I’m hours late, much to my chagrin.
+--- 21976195
+>>21973648
+Correct. 
+>>21973777
+Also Correct. 
+
+Most can't piece together that social media and the race to boost profits have created a accelerator of every degenerative behavior you can come up with. People don't want any kind of responsibility or to give up vice. Only when you can somehow convince enough people to use force to undo it will something change. But there isn't any future focused ideology from the right. They point out what Is wrong but don't point out how to fix it.
+--- 21976397
+>>21973506
+there´s no such thing as "conservative" since the 1900s
+--- 21976419
+>>21973461
+>dude just found a startup lmao
+--- 21976432
+>>21973102
+>Peter Thiel who is basically just a giant faggot who desperately wants life-extension technology to give him eternal life so he can for ever take big black cocks up his ass to embody a perpetual affront and insult to God himself, symbolically turning his rebellion against his father into a promethean story of ass-fucking, where instead of having his liver eaten, he has his rectum prolapsed in perpetuity, and instead of suffering for it, he laughs girlishly in the face of God as he farts creampie after creampie out of his ruined bowels, for ever.
+Kinda makes me miss Milo. At least he was a funny ass clown.
+--- 21976733
+>>21974041
+That’s not the sort of goals he meant. He meant things that you could literally not even possibly knowingly achieve in one lifetime. What you described is just one of the difficult but achievable goals
+--- 21976989
+>>21973506
+>>21973509
+>>21973645
+>>21975239
+Futurism and prometheanism of any kind have been revealed to be a basic faustian bargain for retards who want to turbocharge mass politics for a hundred years and lay down some modest technological achievements before burning the earth to a cinder with unsustainable catabolic industrialism. This is independent from politics, this is just the end result of industrial technology mixed with human nature. Liberated humanity will make Eden just to burn it all down
+anyways, they're not even possible with the current shape of academia and its institutional inertia. Academia is literally mostly women, faggots, and foreigners. Nobody will chart out your transhumanist enlightenment for you, because everyone qualified to do so hates you on a basic level
+--- 21976997
+>>21972978 (OP)
+>has his bumboy suicided in his orgy mansion
+reminder that usurers and homosexuals are in the same circle of hell and for good reason
+--- 21977003
+>>21973444
+no, the soul of a plumber is base and menial, the place of the low caste is below, theirs is to enjoy the sausage not have a say on how it should be made desu
+--- 21977007
+>In his description of the evolution of money, Rothbard makes no mention of the coin, probably because the coin is always issued by the state, which is-invariably a term of opprobrium in libertarian circles. Coins, which were in circulation in the earliest periods of recorded history in places like Mesopotamia, were the state's certification of gold and/or silver as money. In claiming that the state played no role in the evolution of money, Rothbard confuses the intrinsic value of precious metals with money, which is a legal entity brought into existence by the state's power to certify measures and enforce contracts. In fact, he goes so far to claim that "government is powerless to create money for the free economy; it can only be developed by the processes of the free market."[46] Rothbard fails to acknowledge that the state is essential to the guarantees which stand behind the coin, which is precious metals in certified amounts guaranteed as legal tender. Even if private entities were allowed to make coins, the owner of the coin would be left with the task of enforcing their acceptance for all debts without the state's authority behind them. The process of certification which began when priests and other authorities vouched for the soundness of the amounts of gold and silver used in economic exchange found its culmination in the state's adoption of that responsibility in the interest of the common good: It is obvious that the coinage system is tied most intimately with the common good of the nation. Not only is the action of the state justified in this matter, but also the taking over of stamping out coins as state monopoly, the complete regulation of the coinage system ... by the state which is alone in a position to maintain intact a proper system of coinage in keeping with the public interest.[47] Many states and princes abused this privilege and created coins with "other financial considerations than the public economic interest'"[48] in mind. But given the source of this abuse in fallen human nature, there is no guarantee that the same sort of abuse would not have occurred if private individuals had been granted the same privilege. When it comes to "having a good system of coinage ... there is simply no question but that in an extended area the requisite guarantees can only be provided if the central authority takes in hand the regulation and administration of the coinage system.'[49]
+--- 21977012
+>Pesch argues that "In terms of material, metallic money was and continues to be a commodity."[61] But Rothbard argues that money "is simply a commodity.''[62] He calls "Learning this simple lessons ... one of the world's most. important tasks.''[63] But then after stating his case, Rothbard backs away from his original assertion by claiming that money" differs from other commodities in being demanded mainly as a medium of exchange.''[64] If the main purpose of money is "as a medium of exchange" then it is not "simply a commodity." Money is different from other commodities, because they "have their ultimate purpose in consumption," whereas precious metal in the form of money has "its real significance ... in that it facilitates the exchange of goods.''[65] If, as Rothbard argues, "coinage is essentially a business like any other,''[66] then government is unnecessary. At this point we get to the libertarian distortion of economic principle which lies at the heart of their ideological agenda. "What," Rothbard wonders, "is there to prevent private minters from stamping the coin and guaranteeing its weight and fi.neness?''[67] If government is unnecessary, then private actors can perform all of its functions. When it comes to issuing coins, however, only one sort of private actor is relevant, namely, the private actor who is in possession of gold. What libertarianism amounts to then is placing the entire economy under the control of the rich, to the complete exclusion of any notion that the common good should temper economic arrangements. All libertarian arguments come down to a justification of economic measures which would concentrate financial and therefore political power in the hands of the wealthy few. History has shown that the one instrument which concentrates wealth in fewer and fewer hands more effectively than any other is usury, and so all of Rothbard's arguments demonizing "government" as the radix malorum are, in the final analysis, covert justifications for usury, a word never mentioned in his book on money
+--- 21977014
+>>21976997
+They both fuck goys in the ass?
+--- 21977022
+>Waxing ever more tendentious, Rothbard then refers to the expansion of the money supply as "counterfeiting": 
+>if government can find ways to engage in counterfeiting-the creation of new money out of thin air-it can quickly produce its own money without taking the trouble to sell services or mine gold ...Counterfeiting can create in its very victims the blissful illusion of unparalleled prosperity.[78] 
+>The fact that Rothbard.misstates the problem so consistently creates the suspicion that an ideological agenda is driving his economic analysis. Counterfeiting doesn't create "the blissful illusion of unparalleled prosperity." That illusion, as the Faust legend makes clear, comes from living on borrowed money, i.e., usury. Similarly, usury, not "government" is the source of every economic problem which Rothbard mentions .. Libertarian economics both disguises the real source of the problem and protects the usurers from government control. As a result, the whole issue of expanding the money supply, which Pesch concedes as difficult, gets diverted into a mass of tendentious misrepresentations. Sovereigns certainly have debased the coinage to enrich themselves at the expense of their subjects, but they cannot engage in "counterfeiting" because the issue of coinage is one of their legitimate prerogatives. Ignoring fundamental issues like this, Rothbard then goes on to claim that:
+>Counterfeiting is ... but another name for inflation-both creating new "money" that is not standard gold or silver, and both functioning similarly. And now we see why governments are inherently inflationary: because inflation is a powerful and subtle means for government acquisition of the public's resources, a painless and all the more dangerous form of taxation.[79]
+>Once again, making government the villain disguises the real source of the problem, which has always been debt. Sovereign debt based on compound interest or usury causes inflation because the government has to expand the money supply to keep up with interest payments and avoid default; The government must debase the currency (i.e., expand the money supply in a reckless, inflationary manner) in order to keep one step ahead of insolvency because of debt, not because of some Manichean malevolence intrinsic to "government," as the libertarian maintains. Rothbard then claims that "inflation causes the dread [sic] 'business cycle"'; the businessman must liquidate because of "wasteful investment" during the "inflationary boom."80 This is a roundabout way of saying that all businesses must pay back the money-they borrowed, and that this becomes impossible when the economy is burdened with too much leverage, which is another way of saying that the business cycle is the result of usury.
+--- 21977027
+>In his seminal article on the debt deflation cycle, Irving Fisher claims that "General economic equilibrium is disturbed by only the one factor of over-indebtedness." Fisher's article appeared in 1933 and dealt with the Great Depression, which followed the stock market crash of 1929, but his explication of the "chain of consequences" which inevitably follows from over-indebtedness is equally applicable to both the recession of 2008 and the recession which paralyzed commerce in Florence during the last three decades of the 15th century. The trajectory is the same because capitalism is state-sponsored usury, and usury always has the same consequences. What Rothbard wants to preserve by promoting his Shylockian monetary policy is not the common good but the ability of the usurers to buy up assets for pennies on the dollar when the economy freezes up because of over-indebtedness. In order to maximize the grasp of those who have gold, which in a capitalist economy means the usurer, Rothbard consistently places the cart before the horse. The same thing is true of Rothbard's analysis of World War I when he writes: "It was not gold that failed; it was the folly of trusting government to keep its promises. To wage the catastrophic war of World War I, each government had to inflate its own supply of paper and bank currency."
+>Once again Rothbard misstates the case. Governments inflate their currencies, not out of some intrinsic malevolence, but because they are unable to repay their debts. The real cause of inflation (i.e., the reckless expansion of the money supply) is debt. During World War I and virtually every other war, the state borrowed money to wage war. Unable to pay back what it borrowed, the government had to inflate the money supply to avoid insolvency. Once again, Rothbard uses government to shield the usurers from public scrutiny and the ire which invariably follows recognition of their always deleterious effects on the economy. Libertarian "medicine" is invariably worse than the economic disease that "Doctor" Rothbard offers to cure
+--- 21977033
+>>21975028
+>faggot can't admit he's wrong
+>instantly latches on to oversocialized "NO YOU, WHO HURT YOU, REFLECT SWEETIE" nonargument for an entire thread
+Yeah I believe that you're a married petty bourgeois lmao
+Your farm will fail and your kids will die in the upcoming climate disaster stupid fucking retard
+--- 21977049
+>>21977033
+I'll take this guy's side here, the question was genuine, in this context, because there exists a huge movement of 'self-reliance enjoyers' who purposefully make themselves apolitical and in a state of schism with wider society. Turning away from pure consumption to production is a great thing, when that comes not through a place of checking out because you are White and have no power, so you ~hope for the world to end
+--- 21977070
+>>21973102
+
+You're not smart.
+--- 21977091
+>>21973567
+>Did it ever occur to you that the "modern right' is a front for leftists and commies?
+
+that's wher i stopped reading your post
+--- 21977169
+>>21977091
+Anon- you know what the ideological founders of neoconservatism used to be right?
+--- 21977296
+>>21976997
+Wth, more info on this?
+--- 21977299
+>>21977169
+neocons are not the modern right, modern right also includes goldbugging minarchists and trump style Hamiltonians
+--- 21977302
+>>21972978 (OP)
+i met him he is a gay bourgeoise homofash
+--- 21977306
+>>21977302
+Where have you met him.
+--- 21977355
+>>21977306
+in the bay. hes a boring normalfag and his mystique is simply the virgins blood he pays other people to harvest lmao. men used to be men.
+--- 21977370
+>>21972978 (OP)
+Someone told me his boyfriend was recently assassinated

lit/21972993.txt

@@ -6,3 +6,26 @@
 >Tom supposed 
 Jesus christ woman, Tom can do other things than suppose. 
 Also the film was unironically better.
+--- 21973083
+>>21972993 (OP)
+I prefer Dennis Hopper's Ripley from The American Friend.
+--- 21974487
+>>21972993 (OP)
+Purple noon was the better adaption
+--- 21974840
+>>21972993 (OP)
+Film was maybe better but book was pretty good. Definitely more interesting than the subsequent books which dropped all the hot homo stuff
+--- 21975144
+>>21972993 (OP)
+Film made Tom out as some kind of sissy boy even though he wasn't in the book.
+
+Also I'm kind of annoyed that both movies dropped the 'smuggling heroin in a coffin' but, since it's important to understanding the development of the relationship and the class differences at play.
+--- 21976051
+>>21975144
+>even though he wasn't in the book
+???
+
+You must have read some weird censored version
+--- 21976093
+>>21976051
+Its a joke anon. Tom was deeply closeted and sexually ambiguous in the book, but the movie portrayed him living with a dude in an openly gay relationship. The French one actually does a better job by completely brushing over his sexuality, but the book is full of him seething about being called a 'sissy' while being a sexually ambiguous weirdo.

lit/21973022.txt

@@ -1,3 +1,34 @@
 -----
 --- 21973022
 best ancient/early modern tomes on mathematics?
+--- 21973025
+>>21973022 (OP)
+>writing through a clear whiteboard
+>the writing is actually forwards
+Well thats a first
+
+euclid btw. there is usually no point learning mathematics from ancient books, unless you specify your background and goals I would jsut stick to euclid or modern texts
+--- 21973953
+>>21973025
+I also said early modern as well
+--- 21973990
+>>21973025
+There was a time on US war ships that people would write various information on clear boards for the command staff in the CIC. The seamen responsible for this task would be positioned behind the board (as to be out of the way, limited space), so they learned to write in reverse. Apparently many of them would due to force of habit unconsciously write their letters home in the same way. At least that's would a guide on the USS Midway told me.
+--- 21974033
+>>21973022 (OP)
+To learn, or have read, mathematics? There are many ancient texts on mathematics, but trying to learn mathematics from them is like tyring to learn a language by reading it's dictionary.
+--- 21974768
+>>21973022 (OP)
+it's really not smart to BEGIN with ancient mathematics. early modern math might be better, but this would in fact be considerably difficult because they would themselves be well-versed in ancient mathematics &c.
+also, math has genuinely been developing in one straight line for millennia, between dynasties, between languages and empires and worlds. you should demand the MOST exhaustive, MOST recent recension of mathematical knowledge.
+--- 21975871
+>>21973022 (OP)
+/lit/ pseuds will tell you not to bother but Archimedes has a lot of fun proofs.
+>t. reads math stuff for entertainment
+--- 21975883
+Do Byrne's colored Euclid at the c82 website and then do Nicomachus Conics and Archimedes like other anon said, search for Wildberger's Greek Mathematics playlist on Youtube it's great. Check out the one on conics. 
+
+For early modern you have many many more choices. I recommend reading Morris Kline's history of maths.
+--- 21975895
+>>21973022 (OP)
+Basic Mathematics

lit/21973048.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+-----
+--- 21973048
+I feel uncomfortable about where I go to school and what I major in
+
+>got job at restaurant for summer
+>everyone there is either a lifer or going to a shitty school
+>majoring in shit like film studies and sports therapy etc
+>I'm double majoring in mathematics and philosophy at the #1 university in my country
+>I genuinely feel uncomfortable around these people
+--- 21973051
+>>21973048 (OP)
+I don't think there is a cure for bourgeois neuroticism.
+--- 21973574
+>>21973048 (OP)
+Don't worry, I would genuinely feel uncomfortable around you too
+--- 21973737
+>>21973051
+Ever heard of reefer, daddio?
+--- 21973744
+>>21973048 (OP)
+faggot you have no pride over normalfags? you have learned nothing from 4chan?
+--- 21973747
+>>21973048 (OP)
+You can read this reply, you snob >:)
+--- 21974049
+>>21973048 (OP)
+>>I'm double majoring in mathematics and philosophy at the #1 university in my country
+then I trust you're familiar with the word "hubris." you'll be working at a restaurant after you graduate, too
+--- 21974161
+Physiotherapy is an honorable vocation. I sure as hell have had more help from Physios that Philosophers in my lifetime.
+--- 21974170
+>>21973048 (OP)
+>I'm double majoring in mathematics and philosophy at the #1 university in my country
+>I genuinely feel uncomfortable around these people
+That's ultimately the shallowness of your ego that needs to be defined against the perceived inferiority of others. Let go. Beauty isn't there.
+--- 21974171
+>>21973048 (OP)
+You sound like a spoiled, insufferable twat. I recommend Dummies Guide on How to Kill Yourself. You may have to google it, which may require a little more effort than your pathetic majors. Fuck you, faggot.
+--- 21974197
+>>21973737
+this
+--- 21974260
+>>21973048 (OP)
+>how do I cope 
+You’re no better than them
+--- 21974276
+>>21973048 (OP)
+Maybe go to therapy so you can stop being such an insecure loser
+--- 21975210
+>>21973048 (OP)
+try posting for your internet friends less
+--- 21975241
+>>21973048 (OP)
+Get an internship or something.
+--- 21975251
+everyone will automatically think you’re a snobby asshole now bro sorry, this is my experience coming from the ghetto and going to a top uni as well
+--- 21975622
+>>21973048 (OP)
+>>I'm double majoring in mathematics and philosophy at the #1 university in my country
+Shift it to engineering. Any engineering. You can do the philosophical bullshit later, on your free time. Thank me later
+--- 21975662
+Of course you do. Listen to this song:
+https://youtu.be/lkpLbEM06qE [Embed]
+
+Then realize that it doesn't matter whether you feel comfortable around them or not. It's a summer job.
+--- 21975676
+>>21975662
+based pulp fan
+--- 21976448
+>>21973048 (OP)
+So what you don't watch movies or work out? You can't make small talk? Just because you like mental masturbation doesn't mean you are any better than them, and either you know that or yngmi.
+--- 21976547
+>>21973048 (OP)
+Just grit your teeth for 4-5 months. Its good practice for the real world. Enjoy the last vestiges of freedom you cling to. Its all down hill from here.
+--- 21976554
+>>>/adv/
+There's a whole board for you mundane problems
+--- 21976616
+you sound insufferable. freshly 18 year olds often are. dw, just OD on copium
+--- 21976694
+Not your hugbox faggot

lit/21973242.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,103 @@
+-----
+--- 21973242
+Name the most schizophrenic, transgressive and compelling philosopher to ever write
+--- 21973285
+>>21973242 (OP)
+You.
+--- 21973289
+You lazy motherfucker. There are no shortcuts to finding interesting ideas.
+--- 21973292
+>>21973242 (OP)
+Me, myself, and God (still me)
+--- 21973295
+>>21973289
+drugs, sometimes
+--- 21973346
+>>21973242 (OP)
+Pentti Linkola
+--- 21973348
+>>21973242 (OP)
+Nick Land
+--- 21973615
+>>21973242 (OP)
+De Sade. He didn't just write transgressive fiction he lived a transgressive life. Bataille could never
+--- 21973638
+>>21973242 (OP)
+Nick Land obviously
+--- 21973644
+>>21973242 (OP)
+Robert Stalnaker
+--- 21973651
+>>21973348
+>>21973638
+Clearly have never read Nick Land if you think he is “schizophrenic.” Retards
+--- 21973674
+>>21973242 (OP)
+Probably Evola
+--- 21973681
+>>21973651
+Theory fiction is insanely awful to read, just like schizo babbles
+--- 21974558
+>>21973242 (OP)
+Schizophrenia is not compelling 
+Partly because for so many years it was the norm, and hardly transgressive.
+--- 21974652
+>>21973644
+Give me a synopsis of why he’s so crazy
+--- 21975614
+Hegel
+--- 21975623
+>>21975614
+Kys faggot
+--- 21975638
+Deleuze
+--- 21975643
+>>21975638
+Schizophrenic but not compelling nor transgressive
+--- 21975677
+There is some justification in the opinion of Maurice Lange who liked to refer to Gobineau as a "féodal" and an “émigré à l'intérieur” with rancour in his soul, but his medievalism has certainly been exaggerated. What is really important is that he was a modern with a message for moderns. This "féodal" attempted to adapt the ideals of a chivalrous age to his epoch. He conceived the possibilty of a modern knighthood to extend to the intellectual sphere. 
+
+Gobineau with all his heart hated the prosy. "Nous ne descendons pas du singe, mais nous y allons" he once said and one may gauge from this grim sarcasm and from other sayings the depth of his pessimism, and realize his poignant regret at the passing of human idealism.
+--- 21976121
+Bataille
+--- 21976128
+>>21973242 (OP)
+The story goes like this: Earth is captured by a technocapital singularity as renaissance rationalitization and oceanic navigation lock into commoditization take-off. Logistically accelerating techno-economic interactivity crumbles social order in auto-sophisticating machine runaway. As markets learn to manufacture intelligence, politics modernizes, upgrades paranoia, and tries to get a grip.
+
+The body count climbs through a series of globewars. Emergent Planetary Commercium trashes the Holy Roman Empire, the Napoleonic Continental System, the Second and Third Reich, and the Soviet International, cranking-up world disorder through compressing phases. Deregulation and the state arms-race each other into cyberspace.
+
+By the time soft-engineering slithers out of its box into yours, human security is lurching into crisis. Cloning, lateral genodata transfer, transversal replication, and cyberotics, flood in amongst a relapse onto bacterial sex.
+
+Neo-China arrives from the future.
+
+Hypersynthetic drugs click into digital voodoo.
+
+Retro-disease.
+
+Nanospasm.
+--- 21976148
+>>21976128
+The actual content of this can be reduced to maybe 1 or 2 sentences.
+--- 21976197
+>>21975623
+>midwits still seethe about him
+Proving my point
+--- 21976218
+whats with the midwit obsession over occultism and schizophrenia?
+is the idea that these newfags believe there is some kind of 'mystic truth' hidden in these works?
+most of the 'schizo' shit is just rehashed philosophy mixed with obscurantist poetic styling to seem more intellectual.
+i wonder if these people have even read any other works of philosophy and just want to jump to the 'cool stuff', even though the major reason the works filter people is because of how heavily referential they are.
+hegel, deleuze, post-structuralists, land, etc. etc. are hard to understand because they heavily play off their influences.
+--- 21977137
+>>21973242 (OP)
+Mario Alejandro Montano
+
+https://vitrifyher.wordpress.com/
+https://www.youtube.com/@killssingasuka7819/featured
+--- 21977146
+>>21976218
+The irony is that Christ mogs them all.
+--- 21977188
+>>21976197
+>midwit got filtered by Hegel
+Proving my point.

lit/21973259.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,79 @@
+-----
+--- 21973259
+Where should i start with his works?
+--- 21973283
+>>21973259 (OP)
+Never.
+--- 21973329
+>>21973259 (OP)
+4th political theory. it's interesting but he missed the mark by writing for a dumber audience than is ever likely to read his books in the west. maybe it's at an appropriate level for the russian audience. also you know he's writing propaganda, he's not hiding it, but sometimes he gets a little glib.
+--- 21973366
+>>21973259 (OP)
+With a clinical theory.
+--- 21973370
+>>21973259 (OP)
+Postphilosophy. Three paradigms in the history of thought.
+--- 21973379
+>>21973259 (OP)
+what do you find so interesting about this retard? He's a troll, he did the whole edgy teen circuit starting with postironic nazi/fascist larping. Of course in practice it always just meant sucking up to whoever is powerful
+--- 21973383
+>And there was also a case: we once lived at Kuryokhin's - Dugin, me and Nyurych. We wake up, I open the window, Dugin lies thoughtfully on the bed, asks: "But where is Omsk located?" I say: "Well, where: on the south of Siberia. Near Kazakhstan". - "Is Kazakhstan near? And what if Kazakhs poisoned the wind? They can poison the wind! Come on, close the window urgently: the wind is poisoned!" Moreover, in all seriousness: he was scared terribly, started walking around the room. "The Kazakhs, damn, poisoned the wind, how am I going to go? That's exactly how it is. I know they have reed people. They have Lake Balkhash, and reeds grow there in large quantities. And there live reed people who never stick out, only breathe through a tube." Then he thought about it, and said: "And in the middle of Balkhash there is a huge island where a giant, enormous cat lives, which they all worship." Says: "Damn, reeds! Reed people all around, what to do? They can arrange an invasion! That's all - then we're finished! If the reed people get out - and they will come after us with their cat! And the cat is huge, three meters tall!"
+--- 21973384
+>>21973383
+reads like celine
+--- 21973399
+>>21973370
+i dont respect western thinkers enough to spend time reading their books
+--- 21973412
+4th Political Theory and his Great Reset book, then explore his thought through his various interviews, websites, etc. He's written much besides on just politics by way of Ethnosociology and his Noomakhia Projects.
+
+He's legit the only living philosopher (of the "right") who moves beyond mere worship of the classical period or "Tradition" and explores what all this even means for us in todays post-modern world. After Dugin ever other contemporary philosopher is boring as fuck in comparison. Twitter/4chan needs get filtered by him regularly.
+--- 21973414
+>>21973399
+>Where should i start with Dugin's works
+>"Dugin's work"
+>i dont respect western thinkers enough to spend time reading their books
+--- 21973415
+>>21973412
+ok michael
+--- 21973420
+>>21973415
+I'd be disappointed in Mr. Millerman if he actually posted here. Besides I didn't mention Heidegger so I couldn't be him.
+--- 21973947
+>>21973259 (OP)
+anonymous alcoholics meetups
+--- 21973960
+>>21973259 (OP)
+>Dugin works
+kek just read Ivan Ilyin and Carl Schmidt
+--- 21973976
+Bump
+--- 21974196
+>>21973960
+At no point does Schmitt openly call for a nuclear first strike against the Great Satan. Does Ilyin?
+--- 21975091
+>>21973259 (OP)
+I started with Eurasian mission. It was retarded so that's where I stopped.
+--- 21975423
+Dooginism and its consequences have been a disaster for the dissident right
+--- 21975627
+>>21973259 (OP)
+>liberalism invented
+>create welfare state and corporatism as a reaction to communism
+>create civil rights bureaucracy and woke as a reaction to racial agitation
+Liberalism is dead. It was killed by trying to digest the second and third political theories.
+--- 21975682
+>>21973259 (OP)
+>>21973283
+Burn them. He's a fucking idiot. At best he is mindbroken because reality and truth are too hard for him to accept, that truth being the Slavic peoples of the former USSR's best hope was to imemdiately fight a civil war and then a racial/religious war and just suffer another 10-20 million casualties, at worst, a clever kgb ploy
+--- 21975805
+>>21975423
+None of them even read Dugin, they're still puzzling over Evola.
+--- 21977160
+>Where should I start?
+"I am a supporter of blacks. White civilization; their cultural values, their false, dehumanizing model of the world, built by them - did not pay off. Everything goes to the beginning of the anti-white pogroms on a planetary scale. Russia is saved only by the fact that we are not pure white. Predatory multinational corporations, oppression and suppression of all others, MTV, gays and lesbians - this is the fruit of white civilization, from which it is necessary to get rid of. So I am for reds, yellows, greens, blacks - but not for whites. I am wholeheartedly on the side of the people of Zimbabwe."
+You shouldn't
+--- 21977167
+>>21973259 (OP)
+>Where should i start with his works?
+in the toilet

lit/21973337.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,24 @@
+-----
+--- 21973337
+Philosophers:
+Socrates
+Sextus Empiricus
+Hume
+Nietzsche
+Wittgenstein
+Derrida
+&c.
+
+Sophists:
+Protagoras
+Gorgias
+Plato
+Kant
+Heidegger
+Deleuze
+&c.
+--- 21974844
+Socrates the character uses sophisms in Plato's work in order to get across the meta-point. How is he a pure philosopher?
+--- 21975763
+>>21974844
+Because he's a lover of wisdom?

lit/21973425.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,134 @@
+-----
+--- 21973425
+Did Dosto refuted determinism in notes from the underground
+If so, how? Im not really convinced, am I just filtered
+--- 21973431
+>>21973425 (OP)
+The illusion of freewill is proof of freewill.
+--- 21973458
+>>21973425 (OP)
+It's not worth refuting. Dostchad wouldn't spend his valuable time on that, but I'll do it.
+>huemans make up some causal theory of the world
+>From A follows B, from which follows C etc.
+>This is the absolute truth b-because... It-It just is, ok? Stop asking questions.
+>Free will can't be explained by this model.
+>Determicucks insist that this must mean free will doesn't exist, despite every atom of their bodies telling them otherwise at all times
+Existence of free will is a higher order truth. When your model of the world can't explain free will, it's not free will that is wrong but your model.
+--- 21973528
+>>21973431
+>>21973458
+Pretty much this.
+Determinism can be answered by, "So what?"
+It ultimately makes no difference if the world is deterministic or not, since we perceive ourselves to have free will.
+Even Descartes acknowledged that there isn't a point to the question, since freedom of the will is self-evident by the act of thought.
+I think therefore I am, and I can choose to think therefore I am free.
+--- 21973533
+>>21973528
+Pure cope
+--- 21973548
+>>21973533
+>*beep* *boop* I am a bot
+--- 21973557
+>>21973528
+I think your thoughts are just like debugging process in programming, you are becoming aware of variables and flow but you cant change it
+--- 21973561
+>>21973425 (OP)
+It cant be disputed. Its simple mathematics. The same way you can predict the trajectory of a projectile given the strength and direction of the initial force, you can also predict the trajectory of every existing particle back to the beginning of time and forever into the future. We are merely pool balls still rolling after the break.
+--- 21973688
+>>21973561
+Dosto was aware of this, its literally written in the book, yet he somehow disapproves it
+Why?
+--- 21973699
+>>21973688
+I don't grant that he disproved it. Read the first sentence.
+--- 21973711
+>>21973699
+That his character is spiteful man? So people are irrational and sometimes do things because of spite? I fail to connect that with the free will question, maybe Im just dumb
+--- 21973806
+>>21973711
+What the fuck are you talking about
+--- 21973811
+Dostoevsky never refuted nor made a compelling argument for anything. He's one of the dumbest and most philosophically shallow individuals to ever become a successful writer.
+--- 21973823
+>>21973431
+Yeah not really.
+>>21973528
+>I can choose to think
+Can you though? The whole premise of the brain is that thoughts just "happen", you don't conjure them out of thin air, in fact they happen to you and you have no say in it whatsoever.
+>>21973561
+What about quantum uncertainty though? Surely the universe ought to be a bit more complex than that.
+--- 21973867
+>>21973806
+Oh you were talking about your post and not the book itself
+--- 21973876
+>>21973823
+I like this post
+Lack of free will doesnt mean every event is already determined
+--- 21973884
+>>21973528
+Freedom is a paradox. We are determined by nature, thus our feelings of freedom are also determined. The freedom of the will has already been determined.
+--- 21973886
+There's no free will because we'll all die.
+Can you free will yourself to immortality?
+--- 21973924
+>>21973533
+Grow up, coper. Your camp is the one that seeks to absolve yourself of any real need to do a thing.
+>>21973557
+That's a pretty arbitrarily autistic way to view cognition, to be quite honest.
+>>21973823
+>Can you though?
+Yes.
+>The whole premise of the brain is that thoughts just "happen", you don't conjure them out of thin air, in fact they happen to you and you have no say in it whatsoever.
+And why is that, because you're saying so?
+I choose to disagree.
+Thinking with deliberate intention is something you are capable of, and choices can be made by you as well.
+Do people sometimes experience feelings and impulses which did not come from deliberate thought? 
+Of course, I won't deny that. 
+At the same time though: the only people that feign ignorance to their capability for conscious thought and decision are those that celebrate their own wretchedness and seek to rend themselves further from all responsibility.
+--- 21973945
+>>21973924
+>Thinking with deliberate intention is something you are capable of, and choices can be made by you as well.
+
+And why is that, because you're saying so?
+--- 21974037
+>>21973924
+I fundamentally disagree but as there is no clear way to overcome the subjective impression of our own senses, there is no way either to tell if either one of us is right. However your last remark is quite astute as it's probably best for society at large to keep believing in free will, for the contrary leads to many problems indeed.
+--- 21974078
+>>21973945
+Because I deliberately thought so, yes.
+>>21974037
+Then I'll choose to end things here amicably with you, though we may disagree.
+I shall also now choose to not respond further in this thread, for I feel I have said enough. I will read responses to my posts any others may write, but this one is the last I shall write myself and that choice is definite.
+I hope this conversation has provided some food for thought to anyone reading it.
+--- 21974143
+>>21973884
+"We" ARE "nature", you dumb nigger. This idea that we have immaterial souls is the most harmful idea ever invented.
+--- 21974320
+After many years of reading philosophy I dont know what to believe in anymore.. I feel normies are much more happier and confident than me, Im just getting more and more confused
+--- 21974854
+>>21974320
+>stay away from philosophy.
+>Read biology, physics and chemistry books. 
+>philosophy (like theology and capitalism) is a fairytale / a story people tell themselves
+--- 21974869
+>>21974037
+>it's probably best for society at large to keep believing in free will
+Sure.. You are right.. It is better for society to take the blue pill.
+--- 21974882
+>>21974143
+Ahrimanic post, do not listen to this bugman.
+--- 21974996
+free will vs determinism is the most pointless debate ever because even if you don't believe in free will you still have to act under the guise of free will
+--- 21975026
+>>21973425 (OP)
+it's not about determinism; it's about utilitarianism
+--- 21975069
+determinism is taken as an established fact that must be acted to be refuted or dislodged from, but this isn't the case. causality doesn't prove that each persons decisions are predetermined by a causal chain, it merely states that things have, as a part of their identity, particular characteristics that can be counted on; thus causality. the human mind is not to be taken as causal on this premise; we cannot yet state this, as we see that the greatest extent that one might reduce a persons decision-making faculty to is 'they just decided'--it's a tautology. that tells us, if anything, human being have free will. it can only be taken as a theory that causality extends to the extent of the human decision-making process.
+
+i'm happy to see a real discussion of notes form underground and not the usual trite nonsense people usually say ("omg, he's just like me!")
+--- 21975893
+>>21975026
+Its really about both
+--- 21975938
+>>21975893
+no it isn't. the underground man is refuting the utopian's vision of a perfect society by reference to the human drive to be self-determinant. he maintains this assertion even on the basis of determinism. to say it's about both is a gross disregard for the structure of his argument; they are not being discussed on an equal basis, it is only used to make his point about the nature of man.

lit/21973440.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,85 @@
+-----
+--- 21973440
+>start seriously reading and writing 
+>social skills plummet
+--- 21973447
+>>21973440 (OP)
+That's because writing is for losers and reading is for winners.
+Just drop the writing part.
+--- 21973493
+>>21973447
+yea
+--- 21973516
+>>21973440 (OP)
+I thought my social skills were bad because I was half-literate. Now I am much more literate and realized that my friends were half-literate as well, calling me pretentious without realizing the irony. Pretty sure they meant pedantic.
+We were just two branches of equal miscommunication.
+--- 21973546
+>>21973440 (OP)
+
+I always forget how good looking messi's wife is
+--- 21973560
+>>21973440 (OP)
+Side comment.
+How contagious are eurotrash?
+Messi was a good kid until he went to europe and next thing you know he's covered in hideious low class tattoos like a faggot.
+If I go to europe and am in the room with one will I catch these tattoos? Or what happens?
+--- 21973569
+>>21973560
+Im pretty sure most argies and South Americans are tatted like crazy regardless.
+--- 21973573
+>>21973569
+Not with full sleeves and many are not at all.
+The full sleeve thing. Really?
+
+There is no one in their right mind that thinks it looks decent. Yet 85% of euro soccer trash have them.
+--- 21973592
+>>>21973573
+
+South americans get heavily tatted often in football, and that too, pretty shitty tats. Go check out the brazillian national team, they have some horrid tattoos. It's insane how consistently these rich players get horrible tattoos
+--- 21973593
+>>21973573
+Bruh, football players in Europe are mostly low-class plebs that got rich when they were very young. They do whatever is popular.
+--- 21973616
+>>21973592
+I'm married to an argentine. The euro-tines down there are not tatted up at all.
+Brazil is of course a different story.
+But even then, I get what anon here says >>21973593, but what programming is going on to get euro trash to have WORSE tattoos than brazilians.
+
+Okay I'm done. Glad I'm old now where it's popular to read books and drink wine in my back yard.
+--- 21973668
+>>21973616
+>I'm married to an argentine.
+How good was the sex when they won the World Cup last year?
+--- 21973696
+>>21973668
+kek
+Pretty good. I'll tell you though they did not make it emotionally easy on their fans by letting two goal leads disappear two games in a row.
+Would not have been pretty if they didn't have a pk wizard in their back pocket.
+--- 21974000
+>>21973493
+kek you changed the meme after you got BTFO
+--- 21974163
+>start seriously reading and writing
+>now have things to talk about
+
+I'm 100% sure social skills are just about having things to say.
+--- 21974165
+>>21974000
+No, I downloaded it from google before posting it. But congrats on being terminally online, what was the "old" version that you bullied someone about?
+--- 21974953
+>>21974163
+This. I thought I was bad but when someone on the dating scene gives me a chance, it's like I'm talking to a brick wall. You know how in language classes, the basic conversation structure is taught like a game of beach ball where you answer any questions (receive) and then ask questions or give follow-ups (serve). I keep having to serve because they keep receiving and then putting the conversational ball down.
+--- 21975307
+>>21973493
+what about people what watch tv ?
+--- 21975319
+>>21974165
+NTA but this
+--- 21975337
+Pissi Cuckitini
+--- 21977170
+>>21973560
+Messi is an autistic retard who has always done whatever his whore of a wife tells him to do because he’s too naive and simple to see her for the bottom feeding gutter who she was from the beginning.
+--- 21977413
+>>21973560
+Professional athletes, particularly of the team sports sort, are predominantly grug-tier normies of the worst variety. An intelligent professional footballer or basketball player or hockey player is something rare.

lit/21973479.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,117 @@
+-----
+--- 21973479
+People always talk about 1984 and Brave New World, but no one ever mentions this.
+It really makes you think.
+It is as if there are certain dystopian books that the system finds relatively acceptable at least for the time being, and others that it wants absolutely forgotten.
+--- 21973484
+It's not a conspiracy bro. No one ever talks about THX 1138, and Star Wars is bigger than Narnia.
+meds pronto
+--- 21973492
+>>21973479 (OP)
+What is objectionable about it, OP?
+--- 21973494
+>>21973479 (OP)
+Maybe it's as bad as all the rest of Lewis' books and just got forgotten?
+--- 21973495
+>>21973492
+It exposes the connection between transhumanism and Satanism, and it shows how the Oxford and Cambridge elites and the Fabian socialists (such as Bertrand Russell and HG Wells for example) were demonic.
+--- 21973497
+>>21973495
+interesting how you ignore the post that debunks your schizo nonsense
+>>21973484
+--- 21973499
+>>21973495
+That's an interesting claim, old bean. Would you care to help me solve a paradox while you're at it? If you have a set that contains all sets that do NOT contain themselves, does it contain itself?
+--- 21973500
+https://youtu.be/7kJytiN4f8s [Embed]
+--- 21973813
+>>21973497
+But That Hideous Strength predicts how the world is today with so much accuracy it's incredible.
+--- 21973847
+https://youtu.be/oUqE0J0aUFM [Embed]
+--- 21973944
+That's because Christcucksshould be banned from writing. You people believe that the only important book has already bedn wriiten, why do you faggots even keep on writing then?
+--- 21973956
+>>21973479 (OP)
+> It is as if
+> It's almost like
+--- 21973995
+>>21973944
+>>21973956
+https://youtu.be/XZnZozLB6rg [Embed]
+--- 21974009
+>>21973944
+https://youtu.be/x6wUqoJXKHs [Embed]
+--- 21974017
+>>21973995
+>vaporwave aesthetic from 2015
+
+Can this shit get any larpier
+--- 21974121
+>>21973813
+What does it predict? Smartphones? The internet? Climate change? What?
+--- 21974176
+>>21973479 (OP)
+this book is dangerously based but it's overshadowed by the inconceivable basedness of Perelandra
+--- 21974225
+>>21974121
+>>21973495
+>>21973500
+--- 21974243
+>>21974225
+Okay but what does it predict though?
+--- 21974250
+>>21974243
+Nothing. Idiot chuds are running their mouths as usual.
+--- 21974292
+>>21974017
+Where's your argument?
+--- 21974547
+>>21974250
+https://youtu.be/h-12i4mIBco [Embed]
+--- 21974560
+>>21974292
+My argument is that christtardian philosophy attracts tradlarpers, therefore it can't be correct. I win by an argumentum ad cringium
+--- 21974598
+>>21974560
+That's a logical fallacy, and also, Jay Dyer isn't a larper. He takes Orthodoxy very seriously. He might goof around and makes joke sometimes, but when he is discussing serious topics he knows what he is talking about very well, and he is supported by many Orthodox priests.
+--- 21974607
+>>21974598
+Kek more retarded christtard babbling, sure your schizophrenic cult leader is a "serious" "expert"
+--- 21974947
+>>21974598
+Is that book a good starting point and do you have any online lectures/interviews/conversations you're recommend?
+
+>>21974607
+>pic-related
+Your team.
+--- 21975064
+>>21974947
+Well he covers a lot of different topics but here is a good analysis of how pop culture and media is full of demonic propaganda.
+https://youtu.be/0SbFzvTKTzM [Embed]
+--- 21975118
+>>21974947
+>>21975064
+also here is this video where he covers CS Lewis's Space trilogy
+https://www.youtube.com/live/UU-Y1M4xNoo?feature=share
+--- 21975119
+>>21975064
+Thanks, anon. I'll check him out. Did you ever read Jeffrey Burton Russel's series on the history of how radical evil has been personified through the visige of the devil?
+--- 21975153
+>>21975119
+No I haven't read that. But that reminds me of baphomet and how it basically represents the whole worldview of erasing boundaries and blurring everything together. (part man and part beast, both male and female organs, hands pointing both up and down, etc.) That is basically the Luciferian Antichrist philosophy summed up in one picture.
+--- 21975794
+It's surprisingly accurate. AI and demons; hordes of foreigners (Welsh, as Lewis probably couldn't have envisaged tens of millions of Pakistanis being shipped in) brought in to terrorise the locals; middle class moral nullity; universities as vectors of corruption; purposeful denigration of Christianity, etc. 
+Add white genocide, Pakistani rape gangs, and genetic modification through bullshit vaccines and it would be 100%.
+--- 21975806
+>>21975794
+literally this desu
+--- 21975826
+>>21975794
+https://youtu.be/h-12i4mIBco [Embed]
+--- 21976701
+bump
+--- 21976959
+>>21975794
+>if I replace these things that didn't happen with these things that did and then add all these things it didn't predict, then it accurately predicted the future!
+Wow, amazing. Absolutely amazing. AI and demons especially hits hard. Fucking demons, am I right?

lit/21973523.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,88 @@
+-----
+--- 21973523
+What are the universal human relationships/archetypes between 2 people?
+>Master/slave
+>Teacher/student
+>Male/female(?)
+I know this question is unclear, but I can't explain it better.
+Books for this topic?
+--- 21973580
+>>21973523 (OP)
+>master/slave
+>male/female
+What??
+--- 21973587
+>>21973523 (OP)
+Old and young.
+--- 21973607
+>>21973587
+this guy gets it
+>>21973580
+this guy doesn't
+--- 21973637
+Maybe local/foreign or guest/host
+--- 21973643
+>>21973523 (OP)
+>serious/naive
+--- 21973753
+Hero/bitch
+--- 21973776
+>>21973523 (OP)
+>What are the universal human relationships/archetypes between 2 people?
+top and bottom
+>Books for this topic?
+my diary
+--- 21973785
+>>21973523 (OP)
+Are you discussing social imbalances of power specifically, or would personal power imbalances apply too, like knowledgeable/ignorant, determined/yielding, etc.? I don't have any book recommendations for you unfortunately, just curious.
+--- 21974098
+>>21973523 (OP)
+King/subject
+Father/son
+Husband/wife
+Older brother/younger brother
+Friend/friend
+--- 21974414
+>>21973785
+Personal too I guess, just some universal tropes that arise no matter what universe you're in
+--- 21974444
+>>21973523 (OP)
+>Tripfag/anon
+--- 21974451
+>>21973523 (OP)
+Salesman/customer
+Boss/employee
+Parent/child
+Husband/wife
+Creator/consumer
+Giver/receiver
+--- 21974681
+>>21973523 (OP)
+>the
+All of those and a few more. There is no “the” 
+Why are you posting here?
+--- 21976247
+bull/cuck
+--- 21976250
+>>21976247
+African/European
+--- 21976286
+>>21973523 (OP)
+chud/tranny
+--- 21976306
+>>21976250
+In all cases, the European is the one that provides for the African. The most embarrassing part about African history is not just that the white man enslaved the black man, but that the white man also set him free.
+--- 21976334
+>>21976250
+slave/master
+--- 21976338
+>>21976334
+Repurposing obsolete farm equipment as mining equipment, very smart
+--- 21976344
+>>21976306
+>In all cases, the European is the one that provides for the African.
+They provide their wives lol
+--- 21976351
+>>21976250
+>>21976344
+delusional nigger

lit/21973544.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,90 @@
+-----
+--- 21973544
+Have you ever read an autobiography from someone blood related to you? How did it change you or what impact it had on you?
+--- 21973565
+>>21973544 (OP)
+My ex told me she read her dad's unpublished autobiography and apparently it was just about his sexual deviances and coke addiction. She was indifferent to it.
+--- 21973571
+>>21973565
+--- 21973818
+My uncle is an author who does a lot of true crime stuff. I don't have a big interest in true crime, but he wrote a book on a cold case where this girl vanished randomly that ends up being more about how much it destroyed him mentally trying to figure out new details about this case, while nothing comes up.
+It gets pretty personal.
+
+I haven't actually finished it yet, but there's some pretty weird stuff that happens in the short part that I read. 
+Like it talks about him going to a strip club, or drunk driving to try and drive through a time portal, or being a (i forget if it's a psycho or socio but some kind of path) or something like that.
+
+He's pretty cool though
+--- 21973822
+>>21973818
+he took the schizo path
+--- 21973840
+>>21973544 (OP)
+One of my ancestors was an historian and wrote a family history.
+--- 21974429
+>>21973544 (OP)
+I read an account of shermans march. my maternal ancestors owned a plantation just a bit north of what is now downtown Atlanta. My great-great grandmother wrote it from memory in the early 1900s The phrase that still stands out to me is "they even burnt the bees" (probably because my grandmother repeated it whenever yanks were brought up) my GG grandma had been very fond of the bees and the whole natural world which she inhabited and claimed until her death that that magical world had been stolen from her by sherman at the age of like 11 or so i believe. she was still raised by a slave who we share cropped in and we remained wealthy until the depression so I'm not sure how bad it really was. But sometimes i wonder how much we in the south really did lose and wether life would have been much better if the opposite had happened
+--- 21974695
+>>21973544 (OP)
+Tits forever
+--- 21974856
+>>21973544 (OP)
+Nope. I know almost no one on my paternal grandmother's side, my paternal grandfather's parents were fresh off the boat and never passed high school while he grew up to be a semi-accomplished chemist who never really bothered about writing. Paternal uncles also aren't writers and the aunt's been de facto excommunicated from the family for over four decades. The last time I saw her was 12 or so years ago for my grandmothers funeral - she sat in the back of the church. 
+Everyone on the maternal side were/are produce farmers.
+--- 21975523
+>>21973544 (OP)
+Those look heavy...
+--- 21975648
+>>21973818
+this actually sounds like a good read, you have a cool uncle, anon :)
+--- 21976933
+OK
+--- 21977050
+>>21973544 (OP)
+My dads great grandfather was writing an autobiography for atleast 10 years from what I heard. He was originally from North Korea before the split, he lived through Korea when it was occupied by Japan and joined the military for a career. He met a certain man in military academy who was shunned because he worked a bit with the Japanese, who'll I'll explain shortly. 
+
+He chose to leave North Korea, when Kim ll Sung was in power. He than became a general for the South Korean army and made connections with the U.S and was well respected for both nations. After the war, their was a lot people trying to become prime ministers and the nation of South Korea was failing as the result. The man my Great Grandfather became good friends with was Park Chung Hee. If you dont know Korean History, he is probably considered the most controversial (loved or hated) and most famous South Korean Prime minister to ever exist. Park Chung Hee rose to power as prime minister due to a "communist" coup that my Grandfather was part of. Since he was such good friends my grandfather got many benefits, which I won't say but trust me they're very substantial. I assumed thst my great grandfather helped because he was a leftist and trusted Park Chung Hee with giving Korea a real democracy and to make Korea have prosperity.
+
+ Propsperity happened but at a terrible cost, so my grandfather despite being incredibly famous and well loved in Korea, decided he didnt like how things were going and decided to try and leave. Park Chung Hee was known for a long while with keeping citizens in Korea at all cost, a lot of the time killing them. Because my grandfather was such good friends he actually agreed for my grandfather and family to leave safely. My family is one of the only exceptions to move to America during this time. After moving to America he became a local carpenter in L.A and finished raising his family. Than because of some messed up circumstances he ended up raising my dad, aunt, and uncle, my dad considers my great grandmother and great grandfather as their true parents. Too finish this off my grandfather was writing his autobiography when my dad was young, they had to move very suddenly and without warning so my family lost a lot of family photos and all of my grandfathers pages of his life story. He ended doing some more with his life and he had my dad and son taking care of him in the end. I plan on someday doing more proper research on him and writing a part biography and part fictional recollection of his life, to finish what he sadly couldn't.
+--- 21977077
+>>21973818
+That sounds very kino ngl
+--- 21977083
+>>21973544 (OP)
+>autobio
+No, but their fiction. There were moments of shared sensibility and certain turns of phrases here and there.
+--- 21977087
+>>21973818
+>drunk driving to try and drive through a time portal
+no one else going to mention this? he had to be drunk to travel through time in his mind?
+--- 21977092
+>>21973818
+Give us the title anon, I would be down to read this someday
+--- 21977094
+>>21973544 (OP)
+
+Boobies
+--- 21977113
+>>21973818
+I actually want to read this. Is it published? Can I buy a copy?
+--- 21977149
+Becoming. Michelle Obama is my father.
+--- 21977162
+>>21977050
+Who is he? I have always felt a strange connection to the Korean people. I'm an American but my mother adopted a Korean infant just before conceiving me. The baby came down with a cold and died in my mother's arms while pregnant with me and it affected her heavily. I always knew about it, and grew up and joined the army where I volunteered for Korea. I served almost a total of 10 years there over several tours, hoping that war would finally happen, always remembering the story of the sibling I never got to meet. I made very good friends there who I still talk to, but now, on the verge of retirement, it doesn't look like that war will ever kick off. I'm not sure why I was always so drawn to it, but I have great memories and a love for the Korean people. 
+
+So I'm interested in knowing this dude's name.
+--- 21977164
+>>21973544 (OP)
+My mom tried to write one. She managed 22 pages of text with no formatting, filled with typos and grammar mistakes.
+She has not attempted it again.
+--- 21977175
+>>21977162
+I really wish I can tell you but I dont want to dox myself and I'm not 100% sure you're actually being sincere. I can tell you that he was an advisor for Korea during the L.A Olympics, which one he is I won't say. You can make a headcannon for yourself if you want to know so badly. Also thank you so much for your service if you were being sincere for being a Korean war veteran
+--- 21977205
+>>21977175
+Lol, I'm not a Korean war vet I just served on the dmz. One of my uncles was though. 
+
+Pil sung!
+--- 21977257
+>>21973544 (OP)
+Im related to Stalin on my mothers side and to Nabokov on my fathers. Never read any biographies of them, but thorougly enjoed works of 2nd relative.

lit/21973620.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,39 @@
+-----
+--- 21973620
+Any good commentaries on the Bible worth checking out? I just finished Genesis yesterday and I liked it a lot. I ended up stumbling upon something called Gap Theory which addresses a supposed time gap that exists between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Anyone know anything about that?
+--- 21973664
+That's one possible reading of Genesis. הָיָה could mean "became" implying a gap
+--- 21973725
+>>21973620 (OP)
+Check out the Catena Aurea and https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/commentaries-on-the-bible. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful as have to get ready for Church but this may be a good starting point article.
+--- 21973731
+>>21973620 (OP)
+Look up catena Bible thank me later
+--- 21974002
+Check out Ruckman. Most commentaries are pretty boring and do nothing more than point out the obvious. Ruckman usually has something interesting to say. Even when you don't agree with it (which will probably be more often than not) it will at least get you to think about Scripture more.
+--- 21975136
+>>21974002
+This is the insane kjv onlyist guy right? The guy who thinks the kjv translation is divinely inspired and superior to the original texts?
+--- 21975211
+Northrop Frye's lecture series is really good. gets into the metaphors, symbols, parallels between different elements, etc
+https://heritage.utoronto.ca/content/personal-view-northrop-frye-bible-and-literature-program-introduction
+--- 21975232
+>>21975211
+Awesome, thank you.
+--- 21975396
+>>21973620 (OP)
+>Any good commentaries on the Bible
+>I just finished Genesis yesterday
+Gmirkin R.E. - Plato's Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts. Cosmic Monotheism and Terrestrial Polytheism in the Primordial History (2022)
+--- 21975823
+>>21975232
+Actually I realized that the one I linked there is slightly different from what I watched. This link here is the raw lectures-- I think those other ones are slightly edited for television or something; i'm not sure exactly what might have been changed but they're broken into 30 30 minute videos instead of 25 ~50 minute videos.
+https://heritage.utoronto.ca/frye/full-lectures
+--- 21975852
+>>21973620 (OP)
+Catena Aurea
+Matthew Henry
+Luther's commentaries on Genesis
+Calvin's commentaries
+Alter's translation notes
+Peterson's lectures are actually quite good if you can stand him

lit/21973632.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,128 @@
+-----
+--- 21973632
+Whats /lit/ opinion on audio books?
+--- 21973636
+>>21973632 (OP)
+They are GAY
+--- 21973656
+>>21973632 (OP)
+worse than reading but better than not reading
+--- 21973658
+>>21973632 (OP)
+Better than paper books.
+--- 21973695
+>>21973632 (OP)
+I like them for pop history and biographies
+--- 21973749
+>>21973656
+spbp
+>>21973658
+tpwp
+--- 21973864
+They are probably my second favorite format for enjoying stories ever.
+Though it's not ideal for books with tons of numbers and figures. Made the mistake of trying to listen to finance books and found myself falling asleep when math and formulas were brought up.
+
+It's also the ideal way to enjoy poetry and other writings that pay attention to rhythm and rhyme.
+
+Full production audio dramas and audio plays are also fantastic too, but less common than audiobooks.
+
+The short of it is I love audiobooks.
+--- 21973929
+>>21973632 (OP)
+Sometimes better than text.
+--- 21974997
+>>21973656
+This guy knows what's up. Unless you stop everything and sit down and listen with intention, you are basically doing the auditory equivalent of skimming. And if you're already stopping and listening with intention, you might as well just read the book. The only exception is >>21973864's poetry and plays, only because there might be a specific way to reading them.
+--- 21975030
+>>21973632 (OP)
+I listened to 12 Rules for Life by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson read by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. Needles to say, I was ecstatic. Tears of joy were cascading down my dace the entire time I was listening to it.
+--- 21975068
+>>21973632 (OP)
+Great for listening to books you've already read
+
+I personally can't focus enough to completely follow books i haven't read.
+--- 21975150
+finding a narrator that you really like feels like a great discovery
+--- 21976034
+>>21973632 (OP)
+Love them. It allows me to do other things, as I'm listening to the story.
+--- 21976223
+>>21973632 (OP)
+I use them for nonfiction. With fiction books, I'm usually captivated enough that I can pound through one in under a week just to know what happens, but since the nonfiction topics I like such as foreign policy, history, and so on, don't really have a 'story' to keep me hooked, listening to them in audio form keeps me captive so that I can digest them passively without my eyes glazing over.
+--- 21976283
+I use them for books I wanna know the inside of but also won't spend my undivided attention on like I do for paper books.
+--- 21976288
+>>21973656
+Wrong. Audio books are superior to reading. Recollection of the spoken word is higher then recollection of the written word. This is validated time and again in studies.
+--- 21976290
+>>21976288
+Totally. That's why illiterate people are always the smartest. They can read every audiobook. So who cares?
+--- 21976314
+>>21973632 (OP)
+>audio book
+you aren't reading a book, you're listening to an audio file
+--- 21976317
+>>21976314
+Books are unnatural anyways. Literature is to be experienced aurally. Reject modernity, embrace tradition.
+--- 21976336
+>>21973632 (OP)
+Nice if you just need the information. There was this 800 page book I wanted to read (it’s relevant to my profession) but didn’t want to spend the time sitting down going over it, so I used the audio version. In general, however, I read the actual book. If you use audio books you’ll miss seeing how the writing is structured.
+--- 21976340
+I exclusively read audio book versions of picture books. I'm based like that.
+--- 21976342
+>>21976317
+arguing for or against anything based on what's 'natural' is totally meaningless.
+--- 21976345
+I like listening to them on my commute
+--- 21976559
+>>21976223
+I feel the total opposite, but that's probably because when I read non-fiction I like to take notes while with fiction I prefer to fully visualize the story and get swept away by it.
+--- 21976630
+>>21976290
+Socrates was illiterate, reddit snark faggot.
+--- 21976642
+>can't annotate 
+>almost impossible to quickly locate certain scenes 
+>impossible to reference certain pages
+--- 21976674
+The simple act of turning reading from an active process to a passive one changes your whole relationship wit the text. You are no longer interacting with it, you are simply consuming it. Audio books are simply for lazy gay lords.
+--- 21976686
+>>21973632 (OP)
+Perfect to listen to while tidying up the apartment.
+--- 21976706
+>>21973632 (OP)
+It's not actually reading but it is still a step up from listening to podcasts or watching TV. Not the worst way to spend time when on a commute or something where you can't actually read a book during.
+--- 21976722
+>>21976674
+Anime girl poster is correct. It is a fundamentally different process and you will not reap the long term cognitive benefits from it.
+--- 21976743
+>>21976642
+All good things. Live in the moment. Enjoy stuff.
+--- 21976928
+>>21976642
+>can't annotate
+Stop writing on books.
+
+As someone who mostly buys used books people like you piss me off by ruining perfectly good books by writing all over them.
+
+Also as someone who thrived in college by reviewing the audio of lectures while taking notes and studying to obtain great grades.
+Your inability to study audio material is simply because you probably never even practiced it. It isn't difficult or worse than studying from text. I honestly prefer it and it's quite effective.
+Regardless take your goddamn notes in a note book and stop writing on books you ass.
+--- 21976934
+>>21976674
+Reading in any form isn't active.
+It's a passive activity by literally every possible definition of the words.
+--- 21976939
+>>21976722
+You made this claim before any you never have and never will provide evedence for this claim.
+Thus it should be ignored.
+--- 21976950
+>>21976928
+Meanwhile me:
+>successful writer
+>writes name in each book with a pen
+>makes pen notes in his books from 1810
+Each book I own is mine and after I'm dead the books I owned will increase in value.
+--- 21976966
+>>21973636
+Fpbp as always, good job anon

lit/21973641.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,1081 @@
+-----
+--- 21973641
+"The Moon Is Watching" edition
+
+Previous thread: >>21961108 →
+
+/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
+RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC
+
+Please limit excerpts to one post.
+Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
+Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
+If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
+Violent shills, relentless shill-spammers, and grounds keeping prose, should be ignored and reported.
+
+Simple guides on writing:
+>https://youtu.be/pHdzv1NfZRM [Embed]
+>https://youtu.be/whPnobbck9s [Embed]
+>https://youtu.be/YAKcbvioxFk [Embed]
+
+Thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rNFYZX95vE [Embed]
+--- 21973657
+"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
+Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
+Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
+Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
+Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
+The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
+-Calvin Coolidge
+--- 21973661
+Wrote 2000 words yesterday. Gonna write 2000 more today.
+--- 21973702
+Now that my book is a failure, what should I do?
+--- 21973710
+>>21973702
+Give up.
+--- 21973720
+>>21973702
+Write another one that is better.
+Why do you think it didn't work out?
+--- 21973722
+>>21973702
+Define "failure".
+Herman Melville didn't become part of the Western canon until well after his death.
+Franz Kafka was so unsuccessful during his life, he asked the executor of his will to destroy all his work. It's only because his executor didn't do that, that we know of his writing at all.
+Philip K. Dick struggled throughout his life, only seeing real money after he sold the movie rights to "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep" (which became the movie "Blade Runner'), but sadly, he passed away before the movie was released.
+>>21973710
+Go straight to Hell, failed crab.
+--- 21973723
+Any anons working on a short story? Like 2,500 words. Also post short story tips
+--- 21973738
+>>21973720
+Bad blurb instantly turned off people from reading it.
+--- 21973750
+>>21973702
+What's your book title?
+--- 21973754
+>>21973723
+Try to keep it to one theme and use one story thread: setting, idea, character or event. If you stick to one thread then you won't have to write so much, and can keep it focused and short.
+For setting, you are exploring the changes being in and out of that setting.
+For idea, you raise a question and provide some potential answers, perhaps even more questions. 
+For character, you explore something he believes, the belief is challenged and he we watch how he responds. A lot of literary fiction short stories are like this.
+For event, explore the aftermath of an event and try to understand what it means.
+
+If you are writing genre short stories, it may be better to focus on something other than the character. It could be an interesting fictional setting, a bizarre idea or event that would not happen in a normal story. Let the characters take a back seat, they are there to explore the theme.
+--- 21973760
+Is it alright to post here if I am an uneducated, shit, writer?
+--- 21973771
+>>21973760
+Yes. We all started that way, but as president Coolidge said, it's important to not give up. Even after an abysmal failure
+--- 21973798
+>>21973738
+Why can't you change the blurb?
+Did you print thousands copies of it already or something?
+--- 21973809
+>>21973798
+I changed it, but the damage has been done.
+--- 21973837
+>>21973809
+I don't understand, Did you only have one chance for attention from the public?
+You come across as a mopey depressive.
+--- 21973843
+You did write your 2000 daily words today, right /wg/?
+--- 21973858
+>>21973843
+it's 8 am
+--- 21973859
+>>21973837
+Of course. Everyone only has one shot at selling a product.
+--- 21973863
+>>21973858
+and?
+--- 21973868
+Asian American History month is coming up in a few days. How do I shill the living shit out of this book?
+--- 21973870
+>>21973863
+I'm mostly deleting sentences today
+does it count if I delete 2000 words
+--- 21973871
+What's considered a "Failure" for a royalroad novel on a fresh account? 100 people clicked on my first chapter and 25 people are still reading it 6 chapters in.
+--- 21973875
+>>21973871
+If you don't have 1000 followers by the end of week 1
+--- 21973887
+OP your image is ugly, its not your fault, please learn the fundamentals of art, it causes eye ache because its oversaturated, again not your fault, AI is like that, its prone to deepfrying images.
+--- 21973893
+>>21973871
+Real answer, you need to get ~100-200 followers in the first 2 weeks so that you hit Rising Stars (20k word minimum to appear). Otherwise it's dead in the water and discoverability shoots way, way down.
+Assuming you're talking from a marketing/money-making perspective, of course.
+Did you post all six chapters at once? If so, you failed to do your basic research & this story probably isn't taking off (I hope it does; just being honest with you). You need to post chapters daily for the first 2 weeks for your best shot to get the needed followers. Dumping them all then updating rarely isn't a good strategy for getting clicks (only discoverability is 'new updates' and 'new releases' when you're starting out).
+--- 21973898
+>>21973859
+That's not true at all.
+Why do you think it's true?
+--- 21973900
+>>21973723
+Here's one I'm working on. (I've posted it before).
+https://pastebin.com/kbDys4x3
+--- 21973902
+>>21973868
+Get a radio or podcast interview or something.
+--- 21973903
+>>21973760
+No, the /wg/ thread of 4channel.org/lit is reserved for educated professionals.
+--- 21973904
+>>21973868
+Find in-person events celebrating Asian American History month, and shill it there.
+Bring copies of your book, sell them to people, rent a booth if necessary.
+Certainly don't shill it here.
+--- 21973914
+>>21973887
+If I'm using AI to generate images, what does it matter if I learn the "fundamentals of art"?
+Ultimately, you only have your opinion, not objective standards.
+The image looks like typical cartoon coloring to me, and I like it that way.
+Also, no one that prompts AI for images considers themselves an artist, so don't even bring up that strawman argument.
+--- 21973918
+>>21973760
+It seems like that's all we get here, so by all means, knock yourself out.
+--- 21973922
+>>21973893
+I only prewrote the first chapter so I this one is fucked then. I ended up spending a ton of time after the first couple of chapters world building in my notes so the upload pace was bad. I could probably start pumping out a chapter a day now, but I guess it's too late. It's fine though, I'm just doing it as a hobby anyways. kill me
+--- 21973928
+>>21973859
+John Kennedy Toole failed to sell his novel "A Confederacy Of Dunces".
+He ended up stupidly killing himself over it.
+His mother continued to try to sell his novel, finally succeeded 11 years after his death...and it won the Pulitzer that year.
+--- 21973971
+>>21973723
+I wrote this and posted it a couple months back: https://pastebin.com/EL5pDYrw
+
+I was pretty happy with getting what felt to me like a satisfying plot into a ~1,600 word story -- but I didn't get much feedback apart from a guy who said the narrator was annoying...
+
+As for short story trips, I recommend starting stories on the train back from work and then fleshing them out in the evening once you've got home. Seems to work for me.
+--- 21973972
+>>21973928
+>my novel isn't even 1/100000000 as good as confederacy
+What chance do I even have in this cutthroat hobby?
+--- 21973974
+>>21973914
+>If I'm using AI to generate images, what does it matter if I learn the "fundamentals of art"?
+It's good to be able to notice when an image is not as good as it could be, so you can improve it. (This is a general principle. Doesn't matter if it's visual art or prose or computer programming or UX design.)
+I don't know shit about fundamentals or color theory or whatever. But I do notice that the mouth stands out so little that it's easy to miss, despite its size. I notice that my eyes are drawn toward the purple in the bottom left even though there's nothing to look at there. If these things were fixed then the image would be more effective.
+I know that people who are really good with AI art spend a lot of time touching up their images, erasing and inpainting, tweaking prompts, compositing, and so on. I don't know if they're "artists" but there are skills to acquire.
+--- 21973985
+>>21973972
+How much do you think JKT wrote before he wrote Confederacy? There are lots of things that never see the light of day. Time is still on your side, so write another story.
+--- 21973989
+>>21973971
+>>21973940
+It's very good. Not really my thing (the whole literature as a quirky gf simulator is just dull to me) but I can easily see this being published in a magazine somewhere if you make them both women.
+--- 21973992
+>>21973904
+that's a great idea
+--- 21973993
+>>21973972
+What, you don't think you'll get better with practice?
+Very few people write a successful first novel.
+Go write something else.
+Maybe, after you have a few novels under your belt, you'll know how to fix your earlier work.
+Also...do you write short stories? That's a good way to get some practice. I write dozens...sometimes, even silly throwaway stories.
+I don't get hung up on success. I just write.
+--- 21974004
+>>21973993
+That's very positive of you anon! Maybe I will send a short story to the Unreal guys
+--- 21974006
+>>21973992
+Happy to help.
+And remember...even if your public shilling doesn't work this time...you'll gain a lot of experience doing this!
+Nerds like us quite often have trouble speaking in public, but you'll never get better at it without practicing.
+No one said success was easy, or that it happens the first time. Otherwise, we wouldn't have needed a space program; we could have just jumped to the moon on the first try.
+--- 21974010
+>>21974004
+Or post short stories in a fiction-related sub on Reddit, or make your own Substack...really, the possibilities are endless.
+--- 21974016
+>>21974010
+god I hate reddit. They complain 10x more than we do. And we're pretty crabby in the first place.
+--- 21974020
+>>21973974
+You are totally overthinking this.
+I just wanted a fun image I could use to show in the catalog.
+I'm not a graphical artist, and have no aspirations to be one.
+But since you feel so strongly about it...why not touch up this image yourself, and post it here? If I like it, I'll save a copy of it.
+--- 21974025
+‘Reborn as a Demonic Tree’ by XKARNATION has a patreon that makes 5,5 thousand dollars a month. How did he do it? How did he make a story about a fucking tree, growing almost passively at one spot, rooted in place, falling asleep for years at a time, into an enormous financial success?
+
+First, this story has litrpg elements. For many that is going to be a huge turn off, but discarding it simply for that would be a huge mistake. Always consider the function of a story element: how are the litrpg elements used? To advance the plot in some ways. Whenever other humans characters aren’t on screen, the main character, a fucking evil tree, uses his abilities to explore the world, explore his magical abilities through tense fights and explore who he is, as a human turned tree. These three functions are the major pulls of a progression fantasy story. 
+
+Secondly, XKARNATION has from the very first page established other human characters that help to pull along the passive tree. The author decided the tree cannot easily talk to the others, cannot talk to the girl at all at the start, but the main heroine can talk incessantly to the tree. And she does. Over and over. Candidly confessing her hopes and dreams and weaknesses, her moral need shining through to the observant reader. What does the lack of dialogue between the actual tree and the heroine achieve? The reader gets to know this blonde girl rather easily, and we cheer for her, and at times she actually becomes a more important character than the actual tree, with our investment in her greater than whatever the protagonist is up to with his litrpg shenanigans. She becomes our main pull to the world. She becomes the reason why we want the tree to grow. She becomes the reason we want to explore the world. What more can a male audience want than for the hero to grow to protect this vulnerable yet feisty girl? 
+
+Thirdly, the story takes place inside an easily recognizable setting. The author sprinkles in cultivation tropes: an evil demonic sect, elders set on revenging talented juniors, assassination schemes, tense fights with life on the line, growing stronger through cultivation, using system to power up faster than everyone else, admiration directed at the hero for his power levels, evil cultivators vs suffering mortals, fierce rivals to clash with, sect politics and all kind of other tropes seen a million times. The point of all this is to point out how the execution of these story elements, while familiar, is done honestly, not merely inserted to pander to the cultivation audience.
+--- 21974026
+>>21974016
+Then feel free to suggest something other than Reddit.
+A lot of the stories I post there have little impact, but some do really well.
+--- 21974046
+>>21973989
+Thanks man. I just realised that 'quirky gf sim' describes most of my recent output.
+--- 21974063
+>>21974025
+He also writes incredibly well. Look at his prose! His sentence structure, his clarity, and his flawlessness incorporating known words in the english language to his story. That's where we fail. We can't even string a sentence together without it sounding like we forced it out of our ass instead of our mouths. 
+
+The courtyard was desolate—a cold breeze rustled Ashlock's scarlet leaves as his mind slowly awoke from a long sleep. Ashlock jolted awake as a sound similar to a ding resounded in his head. In confusion, Ashlock read the string of words that materialized in his mind.
+Idletree Daily Sign-In System
+
+Day: 1050
+
+Daily Credit: 1050
+
+Sacrifice Credit: 6
+
+[Sign in?]
+"Sign in?" Ashlock stared at the question.
+
+"Oh right, the system unlocked." Despite months passing, to Ashlock, it had felt like a short nap. "So my system is a sign-in system?" Ashlock had read many novels back on Earth, and a sign-in system was common.
+
+They rewarded the system user for remaining in a certain location for a long time by providing escalating rewards with each passing day. Eventually, all these wastrel young masters that had been banished to the cold palace, never to be seen again, returned after a hundred years as an undisputed existence with enough wealth and power to rule a nation.
+
+But Ashlock was a tree.
+
+What use were weapons, cultivation pills, or immense wealth to a tree stuck in a courtyard? "Well, on the plus side, if the rewards increase over time, I can sleep away until I gain something useful to me… like maybe some new skills? Or a way to cultivate faster."
+
+Ashlock accepted the fate that he would spend a lot of time talking to himself about various things; the question is, how long until he went mad? Maybe he was already mad. He had consumed humans for nutrition and hadn't batted an eye.
+
+Seeing no harm in trusting the system, Ashlock decided to [Sign-In].
+
+[Sign in successful, 1056 credits consumed…]
+
+[Unlocked an A-grade skill: Eye of the Tree God]
+
+"Eye of the Tree God?" Ashlock's brain buzzed as the darkness that shrouded him vanished, and his view range rapidly expanded in all directions.
+
+"Ugh." Ashlock tried to close his eyes in a vain attempt to block out the world, but alas, he had no eyes. He could only suffer as his mind was overloaded with more visual stimuli than he had ever endured when he was human. Deciding there was no other way out from the onslaught, Ashlock chose the easy way out and fell asleep.
+--- 21974094
+>>21973868
+Twitter>>21973871
+--- 21974102
+Anons, I'm currently planning out a story that focuses on a doctor (either in a fantasy setting or middle ages ish), but the doctor has psychosis where they occasionally experience hallucinations and delusions. Should I make this apparent and obvious from early on or should I sprinkle it in and make it seem like he could be mentally ill but the audience still isn't 100% sure?
+--- 21974104
+>>21973893
+>You need to post chapters daily for the first 2 weeks for your best shot to get the needed followers
+I get the logic here, but wouldn't people get frustrated when you inevitably slow down the chapters? Or does that not matter compared to just getting that initial following, no matter what happens after.
+--- 21974106
+>>21974020
+I don't much mind that particular image and I didn't make that first post but "I use AI and therefore don't need to know how any of this works" makes me scream eternally, just out of principle. "I don't care about getting good at this" would have been a reasonable response
+--- 21974155
+>>21974063
+why do RR writers all include those line breaks between complete thoughts? This isn't supposed to be a snide remark, I'm legitimately curious if this is the proper way to format stories now. I only do line breaks for total scene transitions, and I'm wondering if this makes my text look too monolithic and unwieldy.
+--- 21974183
+>>21974063
+Honestly, I think this thread overrates the importance of sentence-level prose. The idea of a demon tree is funny. Seeing how someone can spin that out into a story is interesting. I don't read Royal Road type fiction, but I'd much rather read that than someone trying to emulate Dostoevsky. And if someone is inventive enough I can forgive them fumbling their semicolons.
+
+>>21974155
+I'm pretty sure it's because readers would be put off by big paragraphs. The line breaks 'ventilate the text', as they say. You don't have to commit to following a long line of thought through a whole paragraph - you just consume each bitesized sentence or two and move on to the next, like a chipper little pacman.
+--- 21974185
+>>21974155
+If I had to guess, it's because it's a carry over from asian web novels, which in turn is a carry over from their writings where each sentence is a line.
+--- 21974192
+>>21974104
+Well, most authors only change to 3-5 chapters weekly after the initial burst, so it's not that much of a slowdown. Plus it's the standard, so RR readers know to expect it.
+--- 21974193
+>>21974183
+Ooooooh, you referenced a video game from the 80s? You mentioned le pacman? Wow, you're so fucking witty. You should be a writer, Anon!
+--- 21974204
+>>21974193
+?
+--- 21974215
+>>21974185
+No, it's becoming popular in regular genre fiction too. I remember seeing a post comparing average paragraph lengths over the years and it's going down and down.
+Makes sense. Social media & portable entertainment has fried people's attention spans. That carries even into being able to read a long paragraph.
+--- 21974218
+>>21974193
+If that's the best trolling you can do, then you should tuck your tail between your legs and leave here in humiliated embarrassment.
+Look, we all know your recent birthday, and the total lack of accomplishment in your life in light of this milestone, has brought your bitterness to the surface. But we have nothing to do with that. Why make us suffer?
+--- 21974223
+>>21974102
+It's always better to err on the side of reader cleverness than stupidity. Give the reader clues and let them piece it together for themselves and they'll like it. If you can make them reach the wrong conclusion and then show how those same clues can lead to a completely different but equally plausible result, they'll love you for it.
+--- 21974227
+>>21974155
+Do you mean paragraph spacing, not short paragraphs? Anon, that's been the standard for web fiction forever. It's just better on the eyes. Books would do it too, but they have physical constraints, so use indents instead.
+--- 21974228
+>>21974106
+You're overthinking this too.
+You've convinced me to deliberately look for AI images that violate "the fundamentals of art", just so I can make your pretentious ass seethe.
+I never claimed to be able to draw, and don't care to spend my precious free time on it.
+--- 21974231
+>>21974215
+I actually remember reading in a craft book somewhere (might have been Swain's book) that shorter sentences and paragraphs give the illusion of fast-pacing (which is one of the reasons why dialogue seems to go by so quickly).
+--- 21974235
+>>21974193
+It was best image I could come up with on the spot. What would you have used instead?
+--- 21974236
+>>21974228
+>I don't care to spend my precious free time on it.
+Which is why you should have said that instead of saying what you did say
+--- 21974241
+>>21974231
+Yeah, so short paragraphs = "faster pacing" = better on our weak attention spans. Hence its growing stylistic popularity.
+--- 21974257
+>>21974236
+I wasn't expecting some pseud to talk it to death.
+--- 21974258
+If a bunch of people wake up, do I say "they begin their day" or "they begin their days"? The people are not connected to each other at all, so technically they each have their own day, but since there's only one "day", I'm leaning towards the former.
+--- 21974262
+.I find this under his favorite tree after resting after his coup in the south. Fuck sake...I never see a warrior like that.
+
+It came from aches and fire, and from this cinder and fire, burned from within almost all the accursed roots of the Annunaki aristocracy. 
+
+How a group of 5 bloodthirsty member assassins managed to infiltrate everywhere through the vulnerable outer branches of the family tree. The irony is that Gangraine was spread from within. 2 dormant hunters managed to harvest the blueprint of the internal and central organs for 4 years. 
+
+With no means of direct communication with them. It was necessary to use numerology to encrypt in data transfers concerning a list of municipality and mayor in debt of fraud, and another list of numbers with the coordinates of lawyers, false witnesses, evidence to invent or falsify. 
+
+Intercepted emails from several legal firms and politicians embezzling public affairs with taxes by transferring the legal budget to a numbered safe somewhere in a tax haven in the name of a company. In short, material for blackmail, we deciphered the documents of the spies and we discovered imprecise coordinates in certain places in the world. 
+
+I believe that the frequencies have a link with the coordinates, it remains to be confirmed, if this is the case, and that I synchronize perfectly the good frequencies with the GPS data. I might be able to find an entry. To be continued
+
+Glory to the father of huntings and his trophies, Rest in Peace captain. 
+
+Wanna read the letter hunter ? Are u really ready for this. This is fucked up.
+--- 21974264
+>>21974236
+You're on a writing board, and some dude posted an AI image. Why the fuck did you assume they WANTED to get better at art? Weirdo
+--- 21974279
+>>21974258
+>If a bunch of people wake up, do I say "they begin their day" or "they begin their days"?
+
+
+>GPT-4
+Both phrases can be considered correct, but they convey slightly different nuances. When you say "they begin their day," you are using a collective singular noun, which implies that the group of people is starting the day as a unit or in a similar manner. On the other hand, when you say "they begin their days," you are using a plural noun, emphasizing the individuality of each person's experience as they start their day. Choose the phrase that best fits the context or meaning you want to convey.
+--- 21974284
+>>21974264
+AI schizos gonna schizo.
+--- 21974295
+>>21973657
+Thanking you kindly ser!
+I will continue to have been using the Chat GPT you so generously provided.
+That loo? I will be most certainly be pooing in it!
+Please do not be thinking nothing of it!
+--- 21974298
+>>21974264
+>Why the fuck did you assume they WANTED to get better at art?
+I didn't, I just think "I'm using AI therefore fundamentals are irrelevant" is really stupid
+The very first guy with the unsolicited advice wasn't me
+--- 21974309
+>>21974235
+I wouldn't use a metaphor or an analogy, or an "image" I would talk straight and tell the truth. I would say that people like short sentences, they like broken up sentences, they like easy to read sentences, because there's too much content in the world for anyone to waste their time on some dense bullshit. A big paragraph has a higher chance of being trash than a short sentence, the more material there is, the more room for the writer to fuck up there is.
+
+Write less, write better. The more you say the less interesting you are.
+--- 21974314
+>>21974298
+IDK anon, it seems to be the implication was 'knowing the fundamentals is irrelevant to me, so i don't care', not that fundamentals are irrelevant to everyone, including experienced artists. And that first statement is very true. If you're casually making AI pictures out of vague interest, then why tf are you gonna study composition, value, etc?
+--- 21974345
+>>21974309
+You forgot the last bit:
+>and a nice, cozy unpaid job writing clickbait articles online awaits you
+--- 21974351
+>>21974063
+My attention span has greatly decreased over the years I have lived, thanks to the increasing prevalence of the Internet, but even this is far too short for me to parse. If the prose was like this for over 500 chapters, then I would and could end up reading the entire thing over the span of 5 hours, and would scant remember anything that happened at all; save for the premise, but that would be it.
+--- 21974367
+>>21974309
+NTA
+"You don't have to commit to following a long line of thought through a whole paragraph - you just consume each bitesized sentence or two and move on to the next, like a chipper little pacman."
+This is dense bullshit to you, huh? And any imagery that isn't clinically correct is bad?
+You took longer to make your point than the other anon did, btw. Try being more concise.
+--- 21974376
+>>21974227
+Books read weirdly if there's a space between paragraphs.
+--- 21974396
+If I were ever to write a Royal Road story, I’d try to subtly introduce reasons for hating the Chinese and promote genocidal policies much like how Chinese webnovels do. Then I’d make it a game to see how long it’d take for someone to figure out my story’s clearly anti-Chinese bias, and as a Chinaman, I’d reveal the truth of it by responding to my accusers in written Chinese.
+--- 21974397
+>>21974314
+The post really emphasized the AI part so I took it to be about that
+IMO fundamentals play the same role for AI art as for photography or manual drawing or anything else. You're in your right to ignore them, particularly if you're just playing around for fun, but that's unrelated to the medium
+--- 21974399
+>>21974376
+Not to me, but I can understand why a switch-up in format bothers people. The disorientation will go away pretty fast, I assume.
+If you plan on posting online, not having paragraph spacing will make people instantly click away. It's gross.
+--- 21974401
+>>21974025
+>it's the XKARN cultivation fanboy aka https://www.royalroad.com/profile/252421
+The real Royal Road we know so far:
+>>21958800 →
+>>21963240 →
+>>21963419 →
+>>21963451 →
+>>21966589 →
+>>21967665 →
+>>21967805 →
+>>21968230 →
+>>21968280 →
+>Give up your dreams
+>https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/126340
+>Find "A gap in the market"
+>Work it like a job
+>Write brainless genre schlock
+>Abandon your prose
+--- 21974405
+>>21974397
+But again, I don't think anon said fundamentals are irrelevant to the medium. Just him. And assuming otherwise is kind of psychotic from a dude posting an AI image on a writing board.
+--- 21974419
+>>21974405
+That's how I interpreted the phrase "If I'm using AI to generate images". Maybe that's not what they meant but calling it a "psychotic" reading is a bit much I think
+--- 21974420
+How do I come up with a system for a progression fantasy?
+--- 21974428
+>>21974420
+Read translated Chinese webnovels, but not MTL, never MTL. It is a poison to your brain.
+--- 21974434
+>>21974428
+I know, but I didn't want to copy xianxia 1:1, nor have a litRPG system. I got stuck.
+--- 21974436
+>>21974401
+Lmao, if you don't want to write it, then don't write it. I didn't have to give up my dreams, I just pivoted the fantasy I already liked writing into something more marketable. The parts that matter to me are writing fun characters and stories, and I still get to do that.
+IDK why I'm arguing with a mentally ill pseud who only writes for the aesthetic of being a ""writer"", though. I write a lot, every day, and have fun doing it, even if I shape my original ideas into something more marketable.
+Just don't write fiction popular to wider audiences, anon. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to. I have no problem writing low-brow schlock for a job. I write more serious stuff on the side.
+--- 21974447
+>>21974434
+Then you ought to play videogames. Believe it or not, many RPGs or even regular games can have great inspiration when it comes to writing systems or whatever, and I already the embryo of a story system derived from a favorite game of mine.
+--- 21974448
+>>21974367
+It's okay when I do it, bitxh.
+--- 21974461
+>>21974447
+That's just litRPG.
+--- 21974464
+>>21974396
+The problem with this is that actual chinks don't read RR. It's mostly just anime watching video game playing manchildren.
+--- 21974474
+>>21973868
+>Asian American History month is coming up in a few days. How do I shill the living shit out of this book?
+Unironically, you should try to shill it to school boards as some kind of cultural enrichment thing. I doubt professional race-baiters would help, but you could probably reach out to some librarians and administrators, especially if you gave them a few free copies.
+--- 21974479
+>>21974436
+>I have no problem writing low-brow schlock for a job
+As long as you do not continue to tout it and other similar works as things worthy of praise and adulation there is no issue.
+--- 21974500
+>>21974479
+Continue to? Never have. Don't really know many people who do. The kinds of people consuming trashy RR fiction know it's trashy. Nobody's going around and saying it's better than Dostoevsky or Joyce or whoever.
+Though many would say they have more fun with power fantasies than those authors. Which is fine. Let people enjoy their McDonalds. I genuinely don't know why you care. Especially to the point of seething about it.
+--- 21974534
+>>21973868
+Has anyone read it here? I'm curious to see a review
+--- 21974536
+>>21974500
+Oh great your falling back to amnesic levels of denialist goal post moving again.
+>"He also writes incredibly well. Look at his prose! His sentence structure, his clarity, and his flawlessness incorporating known words in the english language to his story. That's where we fail. We can't even string a sentence together without it sounding like we forced it out of our ass instead of our mouths."
+Its ok to think things anon, just not to disown them when its argumentatively expedient.
+--- 21974552
+>>21974397
+Wow...SOMEONE woke up feeling pretentious this morning.
+Me, I prefer to have a nice quiet relaxing Sunday before getting back to the grind.
+Here, have another AI-generated image. Hope its artistic merit is fundamental enough for you or whatever. I just like it because it looks cool.
+Maybe you can post an image you made that has all the proper artistic fundamentals so we can ponder it and yawn.
+--- 21974562
+>>21974500
+Anon is just jealous that your work is popular, so he has to seethe about its perceived deviations from his ideal.
+Meanwhile, his litfic work is completely ignored and bores its writers to tears, and he can't cope.
+Don't mind the crabs. They're utterly worthless.
+"Criticism is a study by which men grow important and formidable at a very small expence. The power of invention has been conferred by nature upon few, and the labour of learning those sciences which may by mere labour be obtained is too great to be willingly endured; but every man can exert such judgement as he has upon the works of others; and he whom nature has made weak, and idleness keeps ignorant, may yet support his vanity by the name of a Critick." -Samuel Johnson, "The Idler"
+--- 21974564
+>>21974536
+Okay, I understand now, you're one of the insane anons who don't realize that more than 2 people post on this board. Makes sense. You just come off as generally unwell.
+--- 21974570
+>>21974536
+What an oddly black-and-white viewpoint.
+"I perceive deficiencies in this work, therefore one can never ever EVER say anything nice about it, or else you're a goalpost-mover, seethe seethe seethe!"
+Maybe the problem is that you're a very unhappy person? Oh well...enjoy being miserable, if that's your thing.
+--- 21974577
+>>21974564
+"B-but if they're not the same Anonymous, why don't they change their handle?"
+Kind of incredible, isn't it.
+Oh well...he's not going to spoil my day.
+I'm reading over a LitRPG I started writing a long time ago, to see if I can get into the mood to continue it.
+The fact that this would make pretentious-art-fundamental-anon seethe is just the icing on the cake.
+--- 21974594
+>>21974562
+Oh great it's the crustacean obsessive again.
+>>21974564
+(you) will be able to move normally again one day r-right?
+>>21974552
+True, AI can be used to write the wrongs of the current woke wars.
+--- 21974601
+>>21974552
+>I just like it because it looks cool.
+That's great, I'm happy for you. I also think it looks pretty cool.
+I think it's okay to make low-effort things just because you feel like it, that's what I've been saying
+--- 21974602
+>>21974594
+Man I really love these kinds of vertical images where when you scroll down it gives the sensation of a camera panning down into the depths.
+--- 21974603
+Chinese "literature" and anime have been a disaster for the /wg/
+--- 21974608
+>>21974552
+It's always funny when zoomers encounter something that's been around for years and think it's the hottest shit ever
+--- 21974610
+>>21974603
+I think they're more a symptom than a cause. The RR guy who posted a few threads ago had the correct perspective: people that consume this stuff lead pretty miserable lives, which is why they consume it in the first place. The conditions which led those lives are the problem, not the products which arise to meet their demand.
+--- 21974627
+>>21974610
+I would think the person posting on /wg/ furious that genre fiction exists is more miserable than people who enjoy said genre fiction (most readers, aka normal people).
+4chan pseuds are not the people living happy, fulfilling lives, and the implication they are is pretty hilarious
+--- 21974632
+>;ast I worked on my novel was in February 2022 
+What a piece of shit.
+--- 21974634
+>>21974155
+It makes the text easier to read on a phone.
+--- 21974644
+>>21974627
+Except I'm not talking about genre fiction in general but the genres of Chinese literature (i.e wuxia) and anime. Of which the users of 4chan are not a minority consumer. People who watch anime into adulthood and read litrpgs are definitely not "normal".
+--- 21974661
+>>21974627
+I feel legitimately sorry for all those people wasting their time and money on aimless, juvenile, badly written anime fanfictions, when there are tons of fantastic, gripping works of art out there that will not only let you have a great time reading them, but also make you a better person as a side effect. Many of them available for free.
+--- 21974676
+>>21974661
+Go ahead and name a few.
+--- 21974686
+>>21974534
+I have one coming in the mail next week. I already reviewed the first edition of Emily Project. I don't know how much Wing's prose has improved since then, but I believe in his ability to tell a moving story.
+--- 21974687
+>>21974661
+And you aren't wasting your time with any pointless, guilty pleasure pursuits either. You read 6 hours of literature after work every day and have 0 hobbies that don't enrich your life.
+Right, anon?
+Wait, what website are we on again?
+--- 21974711
+>>21974644
+IDK if LitRPG and wuxia is any less trashy than werewolf romances, repetitive thrillers, etc, which make up the bulk of the genre fiction market. They're all kind of equally bad, with zero artistic merit. What makes normal genre fiction better than number-go-up stories?
+--- 21974715
+>>21974661
+Most people are fine with the literary equivalent of drawing stick figures, as long as whatever the characters are doing is interesting. Also, not everyone is trying to draw deep moral or philosophical meanings from the content they consume.
+--- 21974722
+>>21974608
+>hottest shit ever
+Logical fallacy: jumping to conclusions.
+>zoomer
+You're WAY off.
+>>21974644
+4chan was originally an anime board, and to a large degree, it still is. Were you unaware of this?
+>>21974661
+>jobless, responsibility-free NEET, sponging off his parents
+Not everyone here has your pseudy lifestyle.
+--- 21974745
+>>21974722
+>Of which the users of 4chan are NOT a minority consumer.
+--- 21974772
+>>21974722
+fun fact: the very first board was originally titled "Anime/Random" for its first month, and /a/ was made months later.
+--- 21974892
+Average chapter length in your current novel, NOW.
+--- 21974909
+>>21974892
+There are no chapters, it's all separated with ***
+--- 21974912
+>>21974892
+5000 words per chapter, 16 chapters. Has a brief epilogue. Aiming for roughly 80k words.
+--- 21974944
+>>21974892
+What, you failed to troll us with all your seething garbage above, so now you're resorting to this?
+Guess what, pseud...people are different than you, and have no desire to conform to some arbitrary set of rules.
+My chapters are exactly as long as they should be, to serve the flow of my writing.
+--- 21974950
+>>21974892
+Just over a thousand words.
+--- 21974957
+>look at the word count for the notes doc on my novel
+>40k words
+Anons, don't be like me. Time to admit that I open up the supplementary documents more often than the actual story document. I could have finished this book a while ago.
+--- 21975125
+>>21974892
+2.5k for much of it, but many of my more recent chapters are 3k and above.
+--- 21975142
+> be me
+> currently making around $400 a month on Amazon
+> all from porn shorts around 5000 words long
+
+I think I can make it to $500 from erotica alone, but I'm fucking burned out and want to move to fantasy where I can make this a full-time thing. What would be the best way to go about this? My current idea is to post on RR first, then take it down to publish on Amazon later. I don't care what I write since this is just to supplement my income. I'm not against doing a litrpg or something similar.
+--- 21975151
+>>21974892
+They run 2-5k, average last time checked was like 3.6k
+--- 21975181
+>>21975142
+There's too much to go over in depth, and there's guides from much bigger names out there (Zogarth, etc).
+
+However, to greatly summarize, you need to hit Rising Stars. To do so:
+- On release:
+- Good cover image
+- Good summary + premise that RR likes
+- Post 1/2 chapters a day for 2 weeks to get necessary followers and ratings
+
+- Optional but very helpful:
+- Buy advertisements at the 20k word mark to help get onto Rising Stars
+- Network with other authors to get shoutouts
+- Anything else that brings initial bursts of traffic to hit Rising Stars
+
+Personally I didn't have to do any of the optional stuff. With good writing (web serial standards) and a summary that makes people want to click, you can hit Rising Stars without any extra help. Though ads make it easier if you have 50 bucks to throw their way (sounds like you do).
+
+I'd do a write-up for long-term stuff, like running your Patreon and whatnot, but worry about getting onto Rising Stars and your first few 1000 followers first. 
+
+Personally, I suggest getting like 30 chapters of 1750-2250 words, then posting the first week twice a day, the second week once a day, and then evaluate if you made it. If not, drop the story and try again. If you genuinely have engaging writing, it shouldn't be that hard (I'm 2 for 2 pen names with 0 external help)
+--- 21975191
+>>21973843
+based
+>>21974892
+cringe
+--- 21975196
+>>21974892
+3.5k
+--- 21975238
+>>21975181
+I'm friends with a lot of webserial authors and have published on RR before, so the networking part isn't too much of a problem. Cover expenses and ads I'd rather wait for Amazon if possible. I've already accepted I'll be blowing $300+ just on a good cover.
+
+The reason I want to take the RR route is that writing a full length novel will absolutely destroy my Amazon income (because I won't be publishing), so at least this way I can do some marketing first before publishing on Amazon.
+
+I appreciate the advice, anon.
+--- 21975257
+>>21975238
+I just use AI novel covers, and so do most of rising stars. Save yourself that 300$ when you don't even know if it'll take off and just make a cover with Stable Diffusion.
+
+And yeah, if you have bonus marketing via networking, then if you fail, it's because of writing quality and/or bad summary/title/cover (or maybe just unlucky?).
+--- 21975267
+>>21975238
+Also, though I don't do this, you could always just write the first 8 chapters (16k words) or so and see if you get ~50 followers with them in the first 4 days of posting. Just be ready to pump out chapters if it seems like it's taking off. It's pretty obvious if your story is hitting the vibe of RR (most stories just sit there at 0-5 followers for days; this means it won't be hitting rising stars).
+--- 21975292
+>>21975284
+It draws eyes and gets clicks, especially for 0$. I do agree it's soulless, but that doesn't matter from a marketing perspective. The typical reader just doesn't care.
+But, of course, do what you want. I was just letting you know what the standard was (go look at Rising Stars, lol).
+--- 21975306
+>>21975267
+
+Short chapters seems like the way to go for sure. Managing a 2-3k chapter every two days is more than doable for me.
+
+My biggest concern is I'm not really familiar with what is popular on RR, so I need to research and figure out what is worth posting there that also vibes with the Amazon market.
+--- 21975316
+>>21975293
+Yeah, and they are just as unreadable.
+--- 21975329
+>>21975306
+Yeah, picking the premise is the "magic sauce" so to say.
+
+Though anything that's popular on RR will be popular on Amazon. Most LitRPG authors who make it big on RR are making more on Amazon than Patreon. So yeah, those 4k patreons are making another 4k+ via Kindle Unlimited, lmao. The money in the genre is insane.
+--- 21975343
+For anyone who knows more about RR, would I fuck myself if I changed the title of my book? I've already got about 55k views and just under 100 followers.
+--- 21975398
+>>21975329
+Is there an archetypal litrpg worth reading to understand the genre better?
+
+Probably a good idea to just read what's in the rising star list
+--- 21975401
+>>21975343
+writers do it all the time to draw eyes. go for it if you need the attention
+--- 21975437
+>>21975398
+Honestly, I'm not that well read in LitRPG. I write it, but generally don't like reading it. I found success anyway, so it must not be crucial to be well-versed, lol.
+That said, I read plenty of non-LitRPG web serials. I think Practical Guide to Evil, Worm, Worth the Candle, Katalepsis, and Wandering Inn were all good, and they gave me an understanding of what web serial readers like, and the format in general.
+Wandering Inn and Worth the Candle are LitRPGs, but not really of the flavor found on Rising Stars. Wandering Inn is character focused without a big focus on progression, and WTC is ... more cerebral. And weird.
+I guess if you want to write the most pandering fiction possible, then just go down the list of major Patreons. He Who Fights With Monsters and Primal Hunter make absurd money. So does Beware of Chicken (it was good/okay) and that recent demonic tree one, which I haven't read.
+--- 21975443
+>>21975284
+when you pay someone, they're just going to use AI and make a few touchups.
+--- 21975446
+can I find friends on here? or does everyone not know each other
+--- 21975457
+>>21975401
+Not really to draw my attention, just that I finally thought of a better title. The current one was always intended to change, but I was more worried that weird algorithm things would happen.
+>>21975446
+That depends, what do you mean by friends? If you just want to talk I could give you my discord name, or there are 2 different discords that are for /wg/ which you could join.
+--- 21975472
+>>21975443
+But how's the result?
+--- 21975503
+>>21973971
+Beautiful written anon, top drawer stuff. How long did it take u to write? What was the inspiration? Please tell me more
+--- 21975539
+>>21974258
+I would say "each of them begin their day with a coffee" or whatever. Side note, I'm starting to get that thing where words start to look weird after you've written it so many times, "begin" feels like it's spelled wrong.
+--- 21975553
+Give it to me straight, lads. Am I going to doom myself by making a story on RR that isn't progression or litRPG? Is urban fantasy still cool? And if RR isn't good for that, is there a community that's better suited for it?
+--- 21975554
+>>21975472
+if you like it, then it's worth $300. but for me, a $0 AI job with a good crop is usually enough. Canva does very well with AI generated art.
+--- 21975558
+>>21975539
+Better just to write
+>Each began their day with a cup of coffee.
+--- 21975566
+>>21975398
+The ones this anon suggested >>21975437 are all good examples of varying levels of success in the genre but he missed giving you the rundown of what their stories are actually about:
+>Practical guide to evil
+Female MC joining 'Villans' in a fantasy world because lol. Slow progression.
+>Wandering Inn
+A stay at home moms power fantasy in a fantasy/lit-rpg setting. Slow progression.
+>Worth a Candle
+A guy moaping over his dead friend and getting stuck in a d&d campaign they made together. Middling progression
+>Worm
+A female superhero power fantasy with over explained dialogue. Many people claim its dark but is just edgy. Slow progression.
+>He Who Fights With Monsters
+Guy gets summoned into a lit-rpg/fantasy world where he mary sues everything while moaping about getting dumped by his girlfriend who then ran off to his brother. Slow progression - Takes four books to get past level 10
+>Primal Hunter
+Guy on the spectrum gets chucked into lit-rpg/tutorial with preloaded bullshit advantages - Middling progression.
+>Beware of Chicken
+Xinxia/cultivation parody where the MC is not a power hungry dick that starts strong but drops the soap by the second book to diverge into too many POV's. Middling progression.
+
+Bear in mind this is all only worth aspiring to if your ok with your employers being literal demanding manchildren who do not enjoy challenging topics.
+--- 21975579
+>>21975566
+I see a lot of newer LITRPGs are now incorporating complete nonsense as their MC.
+>Trees, Rocks, Guns, random inanimate objects. 
+It's all very isekai anime. I was once a middle aged salary man but I've been reborn as a slime! etc.
+--- 21975581
+>>21975457
+>discord
+nice try tranny
+as yet another reminder the unreal press discord recently imploded because they were doxxing people
+>>21975446
+If you want a friend buy a dog
+--- 21975584
+I wrote 400 words today instead of my usual 10 and now I feel invincible
+--- 21975586
+>>21975581
+Right, I simply brought up the discord as an option. I don't participate in the bigger /wg/ one because I think it is a shitshow.
+Some people don't mind it, but I don't want to stick around a bunch of schizos.
+--- 21975597
+>>21975446
+Let's all get relatively famous, have a photo op together and I'll take the /wg/ boys out for some bbq.
+--- 21975601
+>>21975579
+Passing novelty's at best after the premise wears off. I'm open to being proved wrong if the authors don't jump drop the fiction within 6 months of its creation, having watched fads come and go on the site i don't think i am.
+--- 21975618
+>>21974396
+I read RR frequently and would patreon this.
+There is also another anon whos done something similar about jews in a fantasy setting. Though hes been a bit too covert about it and most of his readers don't get it.
+--- 21975628
+>>21975597
+sounds good, I don't want to get doxxed on discord anyway. I only write about comfy things
+--- 21975639
+>>21975181
+>(I'm 2 for 2 pen names with 0 external help)
+Use a pen name sure but why not just one name? Seems like a bit of schizo move desu.
+--- 21975649
+>>21973868
+Have you considered hiring some "anti" shills? You dont want it to be tied back to yourself in any way, but having a few puff piece "racist online losers HATE this brave asian book!" is a good tactic. Outrage bait at least gets your name out there
+--- 21975652
+>>21974396
+>If I were ever to write a Royal Road story, I’d try to subtly introduce reasons for hating the Chinese and promote genocidal policies much like how Chinese webnovels do.
+What form does it take in those novels?
+--- 21975666
+>>21975652
+Many frequently portray all westerners as greedy, lazy, abusive and just generally oafish.
+--- 21975675
+>>21975666
+art imitating life
+--- 21975681
+>>21975639
+One of the pen names is harem, which I don't want associated with my general audience pen name. It's not like multiple pseudonyms is a rare strat historically so idk why you jumped straight to schizo
+--- 21975691
+>>21975675
+I'm not saying there isnt a grain of truth to it but even when a wuxia/xianxia author's hero is righteous and just, he/she is simultaneously also wholesale stripping all the nearby land of worthwhile materials to further their 'cultivation'.
+--- 21975695
+>>21975681
+>multiple identities
+>idk why you jumped straight to schizo
+Anon i...
+--- 21975700
+>>21975503
+Thanks very much. I don't remember exactly how long it took, but it's probably longer than I would like to admit. I can write certain key chunks fairly quickly but stitching them together is a protracted slog. The inspiration was reading a bunch of Nabokov shorts and the strange topography of my uni's campus.
+--- 21975707
+>>21975695
+Have you heard of the concept of a persona? Do you act around your parents as you do around your closest friends? And do you act like you would with your closest friends as you would around a complete stranger? People consciously or not change how they act around people, it really isn't that strange. Is using a pen name at all a schizo delusion?
+Also, NTA.
+--- 21975709
+>>21975695
+It's impolite to make fun of people with mental disorders, anon.
+--- 21975817
+>>21973760
+Alright?. It's practically a requirement.
+--- 21975820
+"is the man watching you?" RadiantCutiePie asks on the IRC, eyes transfixed on the white and blue screen as she takes a sip of her latte milkshake.
+
+She clicks to replay the last clip shared by JudeMan; a short recording of a pale man sitting in the middle of the forest and smiling at the camera, unmoving. The borders of the video are black, not because of a bad crop but because black tarp is laid on the ground and coming up to cover the recording device.
+
+She swallows. An old friend invited her on a paranomal group discussion a week ago, and she had joined out of boredom. She has then spent the week interacting with absolute whackos who apparently believe in apparitions and egregors. She, of course, thinks they are crazy and does not believe in ghosts, nor spirits, nor anything at all. 
+ 
+Yet she was now following a summoning ritual on live feed, during a weekend night, instead of going out with her best friend Kaylee. Why? Because she was too bored to do anything else, and because going out with Kaylee didn't involve watching idiots do a live commentary as they tried to summon an ancient evil entity. She habitually watches cat videos before going to sleep when she's not going out, but recently found out her sense of entertainment was getting weirder. Hence her presence on "Helloweirdos IRC" tonight. 
+ 
+"I don't think so but I might be wrong," writes JudeMan, "It's too dark outside to tell for sure, and I can't check the camera yet as it would tickle its interest. I'm not the one sending the videos, it's just the algorithm for now. Alex, when are you coming? I'm freezing my balls off in the tent, and I'm terminating the ritual if you're not around in 10."
+
+RadiantCutiePie, or Izzy, as she is named in real life, squints at the man smiling and sighs, "Shitty nerds, come on Alex, where the fuck are you? If that guy on the video isn't an actor paid to act like a creepy old man, or a lost creepy old man they coincidentally filmed there, Jude is about to get assraped by a demonic entity and there's nothing we can do!"
+
+Somewhat realizing she's been on the edge of her seat for the past hour, she looks up and sighs again, "What am I doing with my life? I should just get to sleep, but... damn." 
+
+A clicking sound in her headphone jolts her out of her reverie. Something happening on the chat.
+
+"Alex is writing a message..."
+--- 21975926
+>>21975700
+Is this your first short story? I've bookmarked ur pastebin and would be interested to read more
+--- 21975958
+I have no problem writing, I just write to myself and basically write out my thoughts. Cathartic, but when I go to write anything else I can't help but to insert my thoughts. How do I write about someone else's thoughts? Even if I go to write something happening to someone else, fictional or otherwise, I end up thinking "yes, this is basically me" and write about myself. I don't want to seem self centered but I'm my only true friend. I have a terrible social anxiety, talking to others is dreadful only because I don't know what to do. How to consider others' thoughts or perspectives when writing? I actually made mild progress today on a short story but still couldn't help but self insert.
+--- 21975977
+>>21975666
+>>21975652
+Many, many different forms. For example, in a Xianxia I once read, and I am the same Anon who has had to detox via reading moby dick after going on a 3 year MTL bender, the main character and human race was ethnically and culturally Chinese, and the demon race were poorly dressed over white people. They were animals who transformed into westerners, bearing western features and aspects of western culture, and that’s just one example. There are many stories where the Chinese civilization is taken to be human civilization, as in all other civilizations and races other than the Chinese don’t count, but that’s different. There are even stories where the entire premise consists of the MC committing genocide against the Japanese, Westerners, and everyone else non-Chinese except for the women, who they hoover up into their harem and unintentionally propagate the peoples who they have utterly erased through supernatural means.
+--- 21976138
+>>21975958
+You don't necessarily need experience talking to people, just use observation and imagination. I like to imagine dialogue between myself and a character and really try to test how he would act in each situation I want to put him in. Characters need to want different things, see his world another way, so not everyone character should agree but they don't have to be enemies either. Maybe one character is more prone to lying, or one is very interested in whether an idea can be patented, another has nervous mannerisms. All of them may have reasons for being this way, and you can make their behavior as multifaceted as you want.
+--- 21976154
+>>21976138
+It's nore like I want an omniscient third person style, to get into the heads of other characters, but I feel like I want them all to think the way I do. It's weird but I'm pretty new at this so maybe I'll grow out of it as I write more.
+--- 21976166
+Please critique, I'm writing this for a 4chan contest on a certain general.
+--- 21976188
+>>21976154
+Just get more familiar with the creative process. It's not strange to feel lost at first because your mind is just not wired yet. Make more characters, make more scenes and make different kinds of scenes.
+
+You will start to form more concrete impressions of characters in your head, because you will be familiar with the elements that make them resonate with you. For me, it is primarily their voice. There is a particular attitude and energy each character brings, and while it can very from scene to scene, there's something distinct about how each character goes about.
+--- 21976229
+Hell yeah, niggers. I am doing some great progress. I am about to blow
+--- 21976233
+>>21976188
+This makes enough sense. I run into another problem completely though.
+How to stop cringing at my own stuff? I can place it down and feel semi satisfied, and then if I try reading it I instantly think it's trash. I know editing will require work after, but it feels like the base prose isn't t interesting enough, or perhaps might be cliched or boring to someone else.
+--- 21976253
+>>21976166
+I'm not a poet, but a couple things stood out to me from my limited knowledge of poetry.
+
+Line 3's "sunrise" and 14's "lilac" do not end with stressed syllables like all of the other lines. Is this intentional?
+If you were to write "she looks at the sun rise" the last two syllables are stressed because they are separately emphasized words. When they are together as in "sunrise" only the first syllable is stressed, the second is unstressed. It is not pronounced like the word "arise" where the stress is on the end.
+--- 21976291
+>>21976233
+You won't finish if you aren't willing to cringe. You can refine cringe into something that is awesome. You are cringing because you are only giving the first impression, but there is truth in quickness. It's a good thing to write even if it surprises and embarrasses you, later you can reword it into something that you will be proud of if it fits the story, not all things will.
+
+Even today I was drafting the last paragraph of chapter again after finishing the a draft of the entire novel. And I wrote a line that I didn't think I would ever write. I read it and reread it and thought, did I copy paste this from somewhere? I mean I'm easily impressed, but there comes a point where you may begin to astound yourself. But it will begin to happen naturally over time as your own voice takes over. For the time being you are keyboard-shy, and don't sound like your best self, the one that tells stories. Eventually you can strengthen the best parts of your voice.
+--- 21976310
+>article I need is written in german in an italian academic journal published in 1971 and is unobtainium
+
+you'd really fucking think academic research WOULD BE A PRIORITY TO PUBLISH AND ARCHIVE ONLINE instead of billions of terrabytes of pornography and social media posts
+I hate humanity
+--- 21976337
+You guys ever remove a character because they don't have that much impact on the larger plot, only to find yourself missing them? Since I'm trying to reduce my word count, I ended up removing one of my side characters while still acknowledging his existence so he can be introduced in the potential sequel where he has a larger role. I split his more important lines/scenes up between the other characters and for the first half of the book it worked well enough. Then in the second half, he has a few significant scenes that don't really work with anyone else, and it's stumped me for over a week.
+--- 21976359
+>>21976337
+There are other stories to write, put the guy in another one if he doesn't fit in the present. The least you could do is make an allusion, if not have the character make a brief cameo as allusion to future writing.
+--- 21976389
+Bros, I'm trying to make sure my protagonist is an active character so it's not boring and yada yada blah blah. So I'm trying to make sure that each chapter they make a choice and do something that drives the plot forward. In the first chapter, they decide, "I want to do x" and they tell this to another character. And that character says, "You shouldn't do that because it will cause problems for other people." And my protagonist accepts this and agrees, but ultimately still decides to go through with it. The problem is the choice doesn't happen until a later chapter. Is this okay? Am I thinking about this too much? Am I retarded?
+--- 21976414
+>Mark wakes up alone in his dingy studio apartment, feeling the effects of last night's mandatory team building event at a local bar hosted by DiversiCorp. He groans as he looks at his phone, seeing a text from Leah. "We need to talk. -L" is all it says. He doesn't bother replying. It's a typical weekday, and he needs to drag himself out of bed and head to work.
+--- 21976427
+>>21976414
+>He unlocks his phone and opens the text message from Leah again, a tightness forming in his stomach at the thought of what she wants to talk about. He quickly brushes the feeling aside, telling himself he'll deal with it later. For now, he needs to focus on getting ready for work.
+--- 21976429
+>>21976389
+I don't think it is an issue. But, you are free to put in some inner thought of his which implies or states that he doesn't actually plan to follow the other characters advice.
+--- 21976440
+>>21976427
+>Mark heads to the bathroom to splash some cold water on his face and try to shake off the remnants of last night's mandatory fun. He takes a look in the mirror and doesn't like what he sees. Dark circles under his eyes, a few stray hairs sticking up, and the beginnings of a beer gut forming. He quickly turns away, not wanting to dwell on his appearance any longer.
+He grabs his work clothes and throws them on, trying to ignore the creeping feeling of dread that's been building since he woke up. He glances at the clock and realizes he's running late. He quickly gathers his things and heads out the door, ready to face another day of drudgery.
+--- 21976442
+>>21976389
+Don't overthink it. If I see a character deliberating and preparing to do something, that's an active character to me. He doesn't always have to be doing something. Your story needs scenes and sequels. Sometimes the action is wrestling with the dilemma of the action the character does in the next scene. Sometimes the scene is a reaction to the actions of the previous scene.
+--- 21976453
+>>21976440
+>As Mark approaches the subway station, he notices a group of teenagers hanging around the turnstiles. They are charging people an extra fee to get through the gates, and it's clear that they don't work for the MTA. Mark can see that the other commuters are paying up without complaint, but he resents being taken advantage of like this. 
+>The group of kids at the turnstile are three teenage boys, all wearing the same color baggy clothing and baseball caps. One has a gold chain around his neck, and a conspicuously angular bulge above his waistband. They are all black, and they stand in a menacing manner, blocking the turnstile and demanding extra money from passengers to let them through.
+>"Hey, you trying to get through? That's gonna be an extra five bucks for you, white boy."
+--- 21976477
+>>21976453
+what should Mark do?
+--- 21976481
+my retarded friend's working on a story. here's an excerpt:
+"But this isn't part of your -- "
+
+He twists his head, clenches his jaw. His neck is killing him, it must not have healed properly. Maybe they left a damn suture wrong in his chest, cause it really, really feels too tight right now. Somehow, she painted the walls an ugly shade of pink. No -- that's not right. She's a good girl. She's a good girl, and this hasn't happened before. 
+
+"It doesn't... look. You don't... just... this is important. And if something happens." He's trying not to shake. She keeps trying to lean closer to him and press her face; yes it's pretty -- YES, her eyes are nice, but she doesn't need to be so FUCKING CLOSE to him, he can't think straight having to feel her presence and smell that fucking floral perfume. He wants to kiss her. Kiss her. Choke her. You did it fine to the guard? 
+
+The cracking of bone. He deserves her. Let her do what she wants. It's more trouble than it's worth. It's --
+
+"Stop! If something happens, that's my responsibility. It's not your concern. You're the one always going on about how bad things are. You're the one who always is bitching about... no, I'm sorry..."
+
+But she's still not listening to him. She's just trying to hug him even tighter. 
+
+"Allen, you're really going to leave? You're not going to leave, that's bad, you said... you said you wouldn't leave? Allen?" 
+She's not even listening at all. She's like a stupid fucking bird. She's like a fucking child. Vert sits there for a moment, dumbfounded. 
+
+"What... whatever. I'm leaving. You just don't get it."
+
+And as he tries to get up, she continues to cling onto him. 
+
+"No... Allen, stay, stay, please... please"
+
+"I said I'm leaving."
+
+He shakes himself harder, trying harder to get her to let go. He stands up and she stands with him, arm around his, like a fucking anglerfish.
+
+"No! You can't leave! You can't! No, no, no -- "
+
+Darkness. He can't see a thing and he is completely blind. The screaming in his ears, the text itself, the world itself is incoherent. Let him die. Let me die. Get the fuck out of my way and let me fucking die. Blood washing down the fucking eyes out the mouth, he feels the sword burning within him as the black veins pour out from his torn serrated wrist, the bandages unfurling, his hand throbbing. Tear down the sun on to the gasoline soaked landscape let it all burn let this thermobaric vaccuum heat suffocate this fucking stupid cunt can't even let him go marching to his death properly. This stupid fucking bitch. This 
+She's on the ground, clutching her face and he rushes over to comfort her. 
+
+"Why? Y-you promi-"
+
+"I-I fucking told you to let me go! You... Lianne, oh fuck, what the fuck, are you alright?
+--- 21976544
+>>21976477
+Does he live in one of the majority of states that has permit-less open carry?
+Then he shoots the bastards, and everyone else cheers him.
+The next day, he buys a high-quality used car and never takes public transportation again.
+--- 21976546
+>>21976481
+nothing wrong with using an ellipses every now and then, but this violates good taste.
+>y-you
+>I-I
+nothing wrong with a stutter, every now and then, but two people stuttering at each other makes my eyes roll
+the conversation is interrupted literally every single line by internal monologue or action. it's really annoying to read and it doesn't feel like two people talking to each other as a result. please be kinder to the reader also and don't repeat dialogue so much. I get that in reao life people having arguments repeat themselves over and over, either because they get fixated on something or they're using it to think of the next thing they want to say without the other person getting a word in edgewise, but in written form it's aggravating
+--- 21976561
+Oh, damn. I also make words on the computer.. What a coincidence to find this thread.
+--- 21976568
+It's hard to make words that are stupid enough to express how stupid it is to make words. Feels like getting sick with being retarded trying to believe that writing is meaningful. I used to enjoy it but the gestpo censorship and banishment bullshit makes it so futile to try and care when you're not even allowed to write.
+
+IDK how writers manage to suck that gestapo cock all day and not get tired of that shit.
+--- 21976590
+>301
+jesus wept
+--- 21976598
+>>21976590
+>over 300 images like that.
+--- 21976651
+/wg/ needs to quarantine the Royal Retards into their own "general" thread. Shit's annoying. You post there, you're an amateur, and I don't care what few authors you pathetically hold up as "successful." They make less than a full-time McDonald's burger flipper because at least he has benefits. The wagie anon can then go home to write, too, and make money, kek. Royal Road is for needy wannabes. You can't convince me otherwise. Get your own general, retards.
+--- 21976707
+>>21976651
+Sad but true, i thought we could coexist but the level of their shitposting is reaching grounds keeping levels.
+--- 21976718
+>>21976651
+Good luck with that.
+This board can't even contain the groundskeeping shill-spamming same-fagger.
+--- 21976724
+Pseuds getting uppity again
+--- 21976728
+I've been keeping a running tally of every semicolon used in every excerpt I've read from /wg/ over the past few months. So far only 18 of the 46 semicolons have been used correctly. I swear most of you are high school dropouts.
+--- 21976750
+>>21976728
+Semi-colons are great; readers don't actually know how they work either.
+--- 21976817
+How's this idea?
+>A skeleton goes on a quest to get a penis again so he can have sex.
+--- 21976823
+>>21973641 (OP)
+Anyone here tried using the snowflake method for outlining? Did it work?
+--- 21976831
+>>21976728
+You could have spent that time writing
+--- 21976846
+>>21976817
+that sounds exactly like an anime that came out a few seasons ago.
+Skeleton Man in non-Skeleton Land, or something like that
+the girl in question is a big titty elf
+--- 21976862
+>>21976728
+Have you seen what passes for school these days?
+All they learn is that they're "special" & everything is racist/sexist/white-supremacist/transphobic.
+--- 21976937
+>>21976823
+I'm in the middle of it for an upcoming project that I won't start drafting for a few months
+so far so good, character arcs already feel more solid than most of my previous stories
+--- 21976965
+>>21976728
+I’ve been trying to learn how to use semicolons by aping writers who used them when they were commonplace. I’m not certain if the way they’re used now is the same as they were then.
+--- 21977004
+>>21976965
+I use them as a pause between two phrases that are intimately linked but need, the second sentence relating to the first, usually expanding the first idea, but the reason I do not use a comma is that it is the pause between the two. I want the first phrase firmly in the readers mind so what comes next makes sense. That’s a strict usage. Loose is just because it works best with prose rhythm.
+--- 21977020
+>>21977004
+Half of the misused semicolons are a result of this line of thought.
+--- 21977024
+>>21977020
+I expressed two thoughts. Which?
+--- 21977032
+>>21977020
+Your mom is a whore; accordingly, I will pay her nothing after I fuck her tonight.
+--- 21977052
+>>21975977
+Intredasting, thanks
+--- 21977056
+>>21977024
+Both are incorrect. A semicolon must separate two independent clauses. If you are replacing a comma with a semicolon then you are automatically using it incorrectly. It also has literally nothing to do with an implied “pause”.
+The other main misuse of a semicolon I see is the lack of borrowed context. 
+Take this one for example. >>21977032
+Technically correct but there’s too much context included. “Accordingly” is unnecessary and detracts from the intended effects of the semicolon. The semicolon tells us to look at the fact my mother is a whore. We look there for the answer as to why she will not be getting paid. In this situation you must choose between the semicolon and the word “accordingly”. Together they detract from one another.
+--- 21977060
+Semicolons help a reader parse a list of stuff with a bunch of attached qualifications when it's all coming in one sentence. They approach being a strict requirement, in that case.
+
+More as a matter of taste, they're useful for putting more of a break in between two related thoughts than a comma does, and less than a period does.
+
+Two sentences can be clunky, or at least not smooth to read. I notice this most when I'm writing from inside a character's head.
+--- 21977082
+>>21977060
+The usage of semicolons in lists is a little more loose. None of the 48 I observed were used for lists.
+Second point is incorrect and leads to many of the misuses.
+--- 21977104
+>>21973843
+O-of course I did!
+--- 21977109
+>>21977056
+>If you are replacing a comma with a semicolon then you are automatically using it incorrectly.
+Not if the comma was used incorrectly to begin with
+--- 21977122
+Can you also use a semicolon to connect two complex independent clauses? 
+
+Why do many well known authors, both in their domains and in literary canon, etc., use the semicolon along with a coordinating conjunction?
+--- 21977132
+>>21977122
+It’s possible to use it in combination with coordinating conjunctions. Certainly more difficult to do so but still possible. I’d need to see an example of what you’re talking about to say whether it works well or not.
+--- 21977135
+>>21977056
+>A semicolon must separate two independent clauses.
+Is that all? It's very difficult to use them incorrectly if this is the only restriction on their use.
+--- 21977136
+>>21977132
+>It is a calm age; the game is practically over by then; and standing aside one begins to remember with a certain vividness what a fine fellow one used to be. 
+
+From Joseph Conrad’s short story, Inn of the Two Witches.
+--- 21977141
+>>21977056
+The independent clauses are relational. You’re leaving that part out. One clause relates to the other so closely that a period would make too distinct a break between them. Semi-colons are indeed used for pauses and breaks in prose rhythm, whether grammarians like it or not. Have been since their introduction and always will be. If any punctuation puts a break in a sequence of words, it matters to rhythm. In regard to the whore sentence, accordingly is a connective (and interrupter) that is in its correct form next to the semi-colon. The logical chain is: your mom is a whore, accordingly I will not pay her (what she expects as a whore), yet I will still fuck her (what she will not get paid for, fucking her twice over). It works, because “accordingly” indicates how all whores obviously out to be treated. Every anon knows this. Your assessment is incorrect.
+--- 21977150
+>>21977135
+The second clause has to be related in some way to the first, but it needs to be an independent enough clause that it wouldn't be more appropriate to create a new sentence or use a conjunction.
+
+Sally decided to walk along Sunset Boulevard; she had time to kill.
+The avocado didn't feel ripe enough; it was still too firm.
+She was an awkward kisser; the opportunity to practice simply never came.
+--- 21977166
+>>21977135
+Yes, that is it. But keep in mind that semicolons are a tool. They are there for a reason. That reason is generally an implied relation that requests a deeper evaluation.
+
+>>21977136
+Wonderful usage of semicolons. I can tell immediately from the implied relations that the age has just recently seen some calm, our MC had some hand in this, and that it has made him a worse person for it. All of this could be lost simply by using full stops. 
+The coordinating conjunction in this does not distract. Were these arranged with full stops you could easily start that sentence with the coordinating conjunction.
+
+>>21977141
+That’s a fair enough interpretation. I initially saw “accordingly” and the semicolon pointing to the same question but that clarification makes it a good usage. 
+20/48.
+--- 21977172
+>>21974715
+>Also, not everyone is trying to draw deep moral or philosophical meanings from the content they consume.
+
+That's the best part about good books. They don't even try to lecture you. You find meaning in them all on your own, because they speak to some deeper part in you that you didn't know before. Webfic audience (and authors) will never know that feel
+--- 21977180
+>>21977150
+Sally decided to walk along Sunset Boulevard. She had time to kill.
+
+The avocado didn't feel ripe enough, because it was still too firm.
+
+She was an awkward kisser, because the opportunity to practice simply never came.
+--- 21977192
+>>21977180
+This is why semicolons can't be overused, because they replace the conjunction in order to improve the flow or brevity of the sentence. You can replace any semicolon with but, because, and, or and still be correct
+--- 21977356
+>>21977192
+Are you retarded? Have you ever read a whole chapter that uses semi-colons instead of conjunctions and periods?
+--- 21977414
+I participated in a writing contest and didn't win. Tips on how to deal with this shame?

lit/21973746.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,107 @@
+-----
+--- 21973746
+I want to autistically follow a list of top 100 books. Please recommend me the best one. (I don't really want /lit/'s lists with meme books)
+--- 21973978
+Use google, faggot.
+--- 21974003
+>>21973746 (OP)
+Fingal An Ancient Epic Poem
+--- 21974090
+>>21974003
+This
+--- 21974107
+>>21973746 (OP)
+--- 21974123
+>>21974003
+based
+--- 21974130
+I don’t understand, how can a big black cock read?
+--- 21974146
+>>21974107
+roll
+--- 21974157
+>>21974130
+haha I see the confusion. In this case BBC stands for British Broadcasting Corporation and not the American expression "big black cock".
+--- 21974206
+>>21974157
+English people also talk of the BBC Anon, it's not just an American thing. I guess you could say they learned it from the USA though.
+--- 21974238
+>>21974107
+I think 9 (excluding Shakespeare and some novels I've read only partially) is not a bad number to start with.
+--- 21974352
+>>21974107
+Rolling to choose which book I won't read next
+--- 21974423
+>>21974107
+Roll
+--- 21974430
+>>21974423
+Fuuuuuuuuuuck no
+reroll
+--- 21974467
+>>21974107
+roll
+--- 21974476
+>>21974467
+reroll
+--- 21974668
+>>21974238
+Roll
+--- 21974672
+>>21974668
+Reroll
+--- 21974813
+>>21974107
+Roll
+--- 21974817
+>>21974813
+>infinite jest
+o no no no no no no
+--- 21974819
+All list have biases, the Guardian top 100 has a massive bias towards english writers where the modern library is mosly american.
+
+4 chan and true lit are not bad places to start honestly. If I was you I would look ar a few lists and note down books that keep appearing. 
+
+>>21974107
+
+Also Roll
+--- 21974864
+>>21974817
+Don't care, I'm not reading it.
+--- 21974888
+>>21974107
+2022's much better than this.
+--- 21975279
+>>21974107
+Rollin
+--- 21975305
+>>21974107
+roll
+--- 21975542
+>>21973746 (OP)
+making my way through this list myself
+https://www.26reads.com/list/91717-modern-librarys-100-best-novels
+>>21974238
+also exists here https://www.26reads.com/list/12049-rtruelits-top-100-books-2020
+--- 21975557
+>>21974107
+Listen up yall cause this is lit. The book that I'm choosing is electric.
+--- 21975598
+>>21974107
+All these replies are proof lit is buck broken by reddit overflow
+but roll anyway
+--- 21975619
+>>21974107
+Fuck it roll, I will read it and review it.
+--- 21976050
+>>21974107
+Roll for anything not by corncob
+--- 21976086
+>>21974107
+Rawl. This faggot list is hardly different than lits anyways.
+--- 21976152
+>>21973746 (OP)
+He rapes his sister, Phoebe.
+--- 21976493
+>>21974107
+Nigger

lit/21973748.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,48 @@
+-----
+--- 21973748
+Is it worth it to pick up the habit of reading? What are the benefits? What books would you recommend for beginners?
+t. Zoomer that consumes games and movies all the time, hasn't read a book in 1-2 years
+--- 21973758
+>zoomer
+You never had a chance, kid. Stick to your video games until the sweet embrace of death.
+--- 21973765
+>>21973758
+I read a few books when I was younger and in school. The plandemic is where things stopped drastically.
+--- 21973767
+no, literature has always been a female entertainment, even before the atheist revolutions.
+With the british, american, french revolutions the bourgeois took power and they developed the entertainment industry to the max. So now literature is the slop of sex and crime stories and fake introspection targeted to women, written by jews and bourgeois and now women.
+You have to understand that bourgeois, jews and women share the same intellect, ie being deeply addicted to sex, being deeply hysterical, and being deeply addicted to virtue signaling during the day to fill their empty daily life full of boredom before going to orgies at night.
+
+This is why all the books have been about sex for the last 2 centuries. Think of atheist like stepehn kings and houellebecq
+--- 21973772
+>>21973765
+>plandemic
+So not only a zoomer and a frogposter, but also a chud?
+--- 21973773
+>>21973748 (OP)
+I have found it beneficial. Not only has my vocabulary increased, but I use words correctly more often than not. I recommend starting with ebooks because of the simplicity of looking up definitions (just highlight the word).
+What I didn't expect is how it has affected my ability to think. Being illiterate or barely literate is basically a handicap.
+--- 21975111
+>>21973772
+How is your very long and large covid going?
+--- 21975156
+>>21975111
+How is that long virginity going?
+--- 21975188
+You should start with Greek classics and a collection of English poetry. You should also try writing your own stories and poems.
+--- 21975480
+>>21973748 (OP)
+yes.
+increases your vocabulary, and is often a kino experience.
+
+i recc the complete Holmes novels, all of Leblanc's Lupin stuff, and some simpler classics.
+
+for the simpler, i can recc some of the russians:
+Tolstoy's novellas, especially Kreutzer Sonata and Father Sergius, along with Family Happiness; The Gambler, White Night, and Notes From Underground by Dostoevsky.
+also give a look at Lermontov, Chekhov, and when Turgenev (especially Sketches From a Hunter's Diary, this is a primary rec of a kino book).
+then jump onto heavier works. 
+i also recommend stuff like Le Carré for the starting reads, they're pretty comfy.
+--- 21977086
+yes
+--- 21977089
+Wake up, pawn.