Fri Apr 21 06:54:05 UTC 2023

his/14904862.txt

@@ -450,3 +450,112 @@ There’s a reason Jesus is called the lamb of god
 --- 14923522
 >>14916538
 It's strange how numerous these buggers are in Britain when sheep are from dry highlands. They don't like wet.
+--- 14923847
+>>14921890
+Movies wish to be that accurate with the clothing, the guy that drew that really knew what he was doing.
+--- 14923872
+>>14921486
+Late reinassance artists sometimes imitated what they thought was how romans dressed and so on, it was in the early reinassance and the middle ages. I don't think it was full blown ignorance, they knew about roman monuments still standing, good gothic artists in the 13th century knew for sure about classic roman sculpture, as some of their statues are clearly inspired in classic forms, and italian gothic sculpture is full blown imitating roman forms. Medieval artists most likely wanted their people to relate to those acient people, so they didn't bothered trying to imitate acient clothing.
+
+Pic of Saint Martin dividing the cape, circ 1240. Saint Martin was a roman soldier, but his outfit is of an average 13th century person.
+--- 14923890
+>>14921890
+its amazing how obsessed Hollywhores are with taking a beautiful time and culture and making it ugly
+--- 14924184
+In late 1800s America, British landholders would pay extensive amounts of money to breed raise and trade cattle. When sheep farmers started popping up on open range cattle barons would have there proxies use harassment and intimidation to bully the sheep farmer into not farming sheep again. What did the Brits mean by this?
+--- 14924237
+>>14924184
+What does this mean? America the country or the continent?
+--- 14924272
+>>14904888
+People posting Gothic Revival buildings built during the late 19th century as examples of impressive medieval architecture deserve a slap upside the head. I know the image you posted is from wikipedia and the Holy Trinity Church in Long Metford is labelled as a "classic wool church" there, but most of what you see in that image is from the 1890s. The "classic wool church" was on site like four buildings ago and there's barely anything left of it.
+
+The Victorians really did a number on people's perceptions of historical architecture.
+--- 14924341
+>>14921890
+
+I like how even in the "bright and happy" one there's still a river of human shit and piss flowing down the street.
+--- 14924342
+>>14924272
+What are you talking about? As far as I can tell the only 19th century reconstruction is the tower. The rest of it seems to be 15th century.
+--- 14924486
+>>14924272
+Loooool. Dude you got called the fuck out>>14924342
+--- 14924506
+>>14924342
+The (18th century) tower was replaced in 1898-1903, the nave was rebuilt in 1868-1869. None of the exterior is original.
+--- 14924599
+>>14924506
+The picture I posted is from 1825 and it looks the exact same aside from the tower. All I can find about 1868 is that the interior was rennovated, but it can't have been a very drastic change since the interior is pretty bare-bones aside from the stained glass, which seems to be largely original. According to this the 1868 restoration mostly involved stuff like replacing pews, floor tiles and an organ, demolishing a gallery added in 1828, repairing the vestery and stuff like that. There's nothing close to a rebuilding of the nave.
+>https://archive.org/details/historylongmelf00parkgoog/page/n160/mode/2up
+--- 14924682
+>>14916365
+Something like this?
+--- 14925899
+>>14924341
+Well, some things can't be denied.
+--- 14925956
+>>14923890
+Jews were persecuted, therefore it was the worst time period to ever.
+--- 14926486
+>>14924682
+>The European Core
+>England
+>Germany
+lmao, the true heartland of Europe was the Mediterranean Sea.
+--- 14926505
+>>14926486
+The med coast was always Arab and Turk dominated
+--- 14926542
+>>14904862 (OP)
+>Without that England wouldn’t have become a colonial power that went on to dominate the world and spread its culture far and wide
+
+None of that is a good thing.
+--- 14926552
+>>14926486
+Italian merchant republics fit into what that image considers the "European core".
+--- 14927270
+>>14926542
+Yes it is
+--- 14927367
+>>14924341
+No there isn't.
+--- 14927490
+>>14912962
+Turns out the only thing needed to make /his/ good is to ban all politics, race, religion, war, and haplogroup discussion.
+--- 14927522
+>>14924237
+The country. The Old West had a ton of conflicts between shepherds and cattle ranchers that most people today don't even know about.
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasant_Valley_War
+--- 14927525
+>>14904862 (OP)
+Wait, is this why the English hated wolves so much? Because their entire economy was built on the thing wolves like to eat?
+--- 14927772
+>>14927525
+Nobody liked wolves. It was just easier to wipe them out in England
+--- 14928052
+trade = development
+--- 14928080
+>>14928052
+>third world countries have tons of resources to trade
+>don’t develop
+--- 14928106
+>>14909057
+Serfdom was abolished but I think we are talking about renting land, not buying land. Most crop farmers were tenants of land, much like sharecroppers. Also called tenant farmers. The documentary "Tudor Monastery Farm" is set in the late 15th Century, before the rule of Henry the 8th but after "the Wars of The Roses". It goes into this topic of shepherding a bit. Available on Youtube.
+> pic related is a sheep pen in the Lutrell Psalter made in the 14th Century AD
+--- 14928116
+>>14909066
+Ireland in this time had many warring Kings. Hard to guard sheep from cattle raids.
+> pic related is from a 15th Century "Book of Hours" in France judging from the women's veil color and style
+--- 14928125
+>>14909671
+Common land in England was owned by private men (landlords). She was "common" in that she was for the common use of men for grazing their herd. Enclosure made that land for private use which enraged shepherds who now could not graze their herd. They sold their herd to the lord who would hire one or few shepherds to rear a great herd of sheep
+--- 14928135
+>>14914341
+I assumed the Dutch mills were just for milling grain. 
+> pic related is a miniature from the Bodley manuscript
+--- 14928151
+>>14916400
+The common Arabian is poor today because his King makes the place unsafe to open shop. Would you want to be a big successful rich businessman in Arabia? In Europe, you'll have to deal with tax and lawsuits for whatever, nothing a good lawyer can't handle. In Arabia, you can bet the ruler will find cause to have you either killed, jailed, or deported and all your assets seized for the King's prosperity.
+>reddit spacing
+One reason why the Saudis, as much as we hate them, are well regarded by the US is that they bought their oil company from private American ownership after negotiation, unlike the rest of the world such as Iran whose Democratically elected socialist Mossadegh nationalized a British oil company by decree aka a seizure or Egypt's Nasser who nationalized the Suez Canal from Britain and France, causing a war and global crisis. The safer a country is for the rich of the world to pour their cash in, the richer the country will be overall. Dubai (UAE), Qatar, and Bahrain have figured this out in the 90s. Countries like Egypt are still playing catch up

his/14915682.txt

@@ -731,3 +731,436 @@ I remember him from Smash Bros.. Terrible character to play as except maybe if y
 >>14922688
 >trading ground for blood.
 You should google "fabian strategy" genius
+--- 14923807
+>>14923654
+He's in
+--- 14923825
+>>14915682 (OP)
+Funny how everyone posed with their hands in their jacket just because nappy had a rash
+--- 14924060
+>>14922795
+Stephan Sears' McClellan: The Young Napoleon
+--- 14924223
+>>14922640
+>anon expects commanders to be up there in the thick of the fighting side by side with their men in the 19th century
+I guess that worked fine for Jackson, until it didn't.
+--- 14924282
+>>14924223
+Is it unreasonable to expect commanders to be at a distance from which they can actually command? Jackson was twice the commander McClellan ever was
+--- 14924305
+>>14924282
+What does it mean to "command"? Are you claiming that McClellan had no effect at all in the campaign? If not, then what's the difference between whatever you think McClellan did, regarding his army, and "commanding"?
+--- 14924316
+>>14924223
+--- 14924359
+>>14924305
+All I'm claiming is that when a battle is occurring, such as the Battle of Glendale, a commander in McClellan's position should be in a position to observe the battle so as to be in a position to make decisions. Are you saying that's unreasonable? Distance certainly hindered his performance at Antietam.
+--- 14924366
+>>14923665
+trading blood for ground is peak Fabien as per the definition.
+>The Fabian strategy is a military strategy where pitched battles and frontal assaults are avoided in favor of wearing down an opponent through a war of attrition and indirection.
+Also it doesnt even have to be identical to what the Romans employed, it could simply be more like a Fabien strategy than what anyone else was doing, though it does fit the criteria.
+What was the point of your posts?
+--- 14924373
+>>14924316
+>climate change
+>"has the data shown any human impact"
+>no
+>"so why do you believe its real"
+>IT JUST IS
+--- 14924395
+>>14922850
+>three best
+Those were his only performances save for Antietam and South Mountain, South Mountain also looks like those battles.
+>Grant's worst
+Those are the largest battles Grant ever partook in.
+They arent cherrypicked.
+>uh the 7 days
+You mean where the confederates had to attack him? Yes, that is him preventing them from exerting their will, they werent able to dive toward Washington or simply go around him like they did with other generals.
+>Maryland campaign
+????
+McClellan was removed after that, if you mean why didnt he pursue, because Lee had set up defensive positions at narrow crossings and valleys lel.
+>he should have taken Richmond but was too slow
+he moved faster than Grant toward Richmond.
+>they werent Fabien tactics
+They meet the definition of Fabien tactics.
+>actually kill the enemy at some point to win
+his military record attests to his ability to strike at the enemy.
+>BUT HE DIDNT RUSH HIS MEN FORWARD
+which means he never fought, McClellan's men just never attacked, you said "at some point you have to kil the enemy" implying he never killed anyone or fought any battles.
+You are deluded.
+>political realities of the war
+Republicans didnt like him, I already mentioned this.
+>Northern Moral was low
+HAHAHAHHAHHAAHHAHAA
+It was famously high when McClellan was in charge, read more.
+>decisive battlefield victories
+The public will not know what that looks like, in fact NO ONE knows what that looks like till the war is over.
+The South believed Morgan's raid to be some great saving grace, when it did absolutely nothing. The South considered Gettysburg a trivial loss, when it was the pivot of the war.
+>increasingly likely Britain or France
+no, Britain was threatened with war by Russia and France was already in a war with Mexico.
+>Union advantages werent a sure bet
+Yes they were and everyone said as much, both sides said this.
+Read more.
+>doing nothing
+fighting battles and sieging a capitol isnt "nothing"
+--- 14924399
+>>14922850
+>Something
+You mean the same something which caused Lincoln to consider capitulating?
+Morale went down after McClellan was gone publicly and in the Army.
+>just be a Republican bro
+unrealistic demands during wartime.
+>alienate
+nope
+>belittle
+nope
+>what did he expect
+Not to get his own supply line made defunct BY HIS OWN SIDE while he was overseeing 100,000 fucking men in hostile territory 
+LMFAO HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAA
+--- 14924430
+>>14924373
+>>no
+lol
+--- 14924511
+>>14924359
+With armies numbering in the tens of thousands of men a commander can't be everywhere at once. McClellan built a well-oiled machine that couldn't be defeated decisively no matter what the confederates threw at it. Blaming McClellan for not being directly involved in every single engagement is a very abstract criticism when his supposed absence never resulted in a military disaster, while other generals (of either side) did suffer those repeatedly. McClellan was definitely not negligent, he just preferred to give more freedom to his subordinate officers instead of directing their every movement, which, btw, was the up-to-date command doctrine of the late 19th century, leading your men from the front and telling every subordinate officer what to do and how to do it was outdated.
+--- 14924516
+>>14924430
+That is currently what the data suggests, tho
+--- 14924559
+>>14924395
+>>14924399
+Oh never mind, I made the mistake of thinking you were serious and had some idea of what the fuck you are talking about. I see that I was mistaken. Come back when you have something better than "read more" and "lol."
+--- 14924566
+My opinion on the matter is that "incompetence" would be the wrong word to describe McClellan, on the whole.
+
+I subscribe to the same view of McClellan that was held by Ulysses S. Grant. To him, and to myself, "McClellan is the great mystery of the war." He performed so admirably in some areas of command, and so abysmally poor in others, that it's too easy to simply lump him in with other incompetents who served in high command during the war, and equally impossible to say he's underrated or misunderstood.
+
+McClellan's greatest flaw is hard to pin down, as he had many. Was it his arrogance, which led to dysfunction between himself and virtually any individual that tried to command or otherwise direct him? Maybe. Was it his perfectionism, which led to his slowness on the march and in battle and resulted in many missed opportunities that might have shortened the war? Maybe. Was it his inherent caution and predilection to overestimate enemy forces and potential? Maybe.
+
+My argument would be that McClellan's greatest flaw is that he lacked the moral courage to command an army in the field against a determined enemy. That is not to say he is a coward, per se, as he was exposed to enemy fire numerous times during the Mexican War and never shrank from it. Rather, what I mean is that he lacked the personal constitution to do what needed to be done in high stress environments. He couldn't cope with the blood and death, with the uncertainty inherent in large military operations, the fact that the enemy did not go along with his meticulous plans, the sheer weight of responsibility resting on his shoulders, and how that might reflect on him if things went wrong.
+
+He did not share the beliefs he managed to instill within his army. Although he outwardly proclaimed utter confidence in himself and his abilities, he believed that his men and his government would fail him at the moment of greatest danger. He shrunk from danger consistently, costing the lives of many men.
+--- 14924733
+>>14924366
+NTA, but that literally says that the entire point of the fabian strategy is to avoid pitched battles, contradicting what was said here >>14922585 . Likewise, the Fabian strategy is based off of the idea of using low-level skirmishes as the main form of attrition against a larger force. I'll admit, i don't know as much about the campaigns of the Civil War as i should, but i am quite certain that McClellan's strategy couldn't be described as fabian with these criteria.
+--- 14924821
+>>14917334
+>"he wasn't winning the war fast enough"
+>the Union army and the U.S. Government existed in a vaccum outside of the realm of public opinion
+--- 14925200
+it was the curse of many West Pointers that they never entirely figured out that IRL battles do not work like the diagrams in military textbooks.
+--- 14925213
+>>14924566
+the worst part was that the Army of the Potomac was infected with his mentality almost to the end and Grant could never entirely cleanse it of that. slow, always missing opportunities, plagued by political infighting, defeatist, always afraid of what Lee was up to, and so on.
+--- 14925769
+>>14924821
+Why isn't the argument of "he didn't win the war fast enough" thrown against Grant? He was a general for a longer period of time than McClellan. Why didn't Grant win the war by July 1864?
+If you want to say that all generals of the American civil war were incompetent, then you do you, but criticizing McClellan so heavily while at the same time lauding Grant (or any other Union general) as some military genius is ridiculous.
+--- 14925775
+McClellan created his own homoerotic personality cult in AoP with a bunch of fudge packing groupies like William Franklin and Fitz John-Porter and they all had bareback anal sex in his tent while acting super catty and bitchy that Lincoln was holding them back and wouldn't let them have 50,000 more troops.
+--- 14925787
+>>14925769
+>Why didn't Grant win the war by July 1864?
+Unfortunately it took almost a year because Grant was still cursed with the army that McClellan built, an army of overly cautious officers who lacked drive and initiative and got spooked by the Confederates easily.
+--- 14925800
+>>14924821
+Listening to muh public opinion is what caused military diseasters in the early war
+
+>attack them now!!!
+--- 14925805
+>>14925213
+Missing opportunity for glorious charges like at Cold Harbour?
+--- 14925812
+Ben Butler literally could have walked into Richmond in May 1864 but a couple of Confederate militia and home guards comprised of teenagers and 50 year olds showed up and he shit his pants and went "nopenopenope." That was the kind of retardation that dragged the war out needlessly.
+--- 14925813
+>>14915682 (OP)
+Yes, he saved the Union, but was too conservative so he was derided both during the war then moreso afterwards
+--- 14925833
+>>14925213
+That happened in the West as well. You had McClellanite generals like Don Carlos Buell and also in early 1865 when Grant told Edward Canby to march on Mobile he instead decided it was a great idea to rebuild railroad lines in Alabama. Grant told him what is your problem, soldier? go burn and loot the Alabama countryside instead of playing Kinex. He actually was going to send Phil Sheridan down there to handle that campaign but then decided he was needed in Virginia.
+--- 14925847
+>>14925812
+Butler was not a professional soldier to be sure but his two corps commanders Baldy Smith and Quincy Gillmore were West Pointers and proved equally useless. Quite sad, really. He blew his chance and then allowed Beauregard to arrive with a real army, kick his shit in at City Point, and box him up on the Virginia Peninsula.
+--- 14925917
+>>14925833
+Why do amerikeks hate their own supply lines so much
+--- 14925969
+>>14925833
+Buell had been without a job since getting booted from the Army of Ohio after Perryville. Grant offered him an assignment to serve under Sherman but the humorless Buell declared that he outranked Sherman and would not accept, so he resigned from the Army and went back to civilian life. Perhaps not helping things was Andrew Johnson sending Lincoln a hotly worded telegram that went "I trust in God that General Buell will not be sent to Tennessee. We were cursed with him here once and do not desire its repetition."
+--- 14925972
+>>14925775
+that's pretty kinky
+--- 14925992
+>>14925769
+1. when Grant was on top of the AoP, expectations and opinions on the war had already changed significantly. Ending the war quickly was no longer a bullet point.
+2. McClellan was given two chances and fucked up on both, Grant on the other hand split the confederacy before being placed on top of operations in the east front
+3. Grant didn't skedaddle like McClellan did. He made headway, slowly but surely, and kept the brunt of the confederacy's army locked in place, this also was an achievement of its own.
+--- 14926015
+>>14925847
+>box him up on the Virginia Peninsula
+Bermuda Hundred, you mean.
+--- 14926024
+the best general of the war was the guy named after the president of the Confederacy, who fought for the Union, who walked up and shot dead another Union general and still got to command a corps
+--- 14926031
+>>14925847
+Baldy Smith was also a notorious McClellan dick biter and largely responsible for creating the Grant drunk maymay as well as being part of the clique that knifed Burnside during the Fredericksburg campaign. He finally ended up exiled to New York awaiting orders that never came.
+
+>>14925833
+Canby almost gave Smith a command in his army until Grant said hell fucking no.
+--- 14926033
+>>14926024
+mediocre and unremarkable general. deserved to be executed for what he did, also never got a rank higher than a colonel if memory serves me well. he's a dark spot on American history
+--- 14926043
+>>14926024
+Was Jefferson C. Davis who shot William Nelson. Since Nelson was a Democrat and Southboo, his death wasn't overly mourned however Davis did get penalized some by remaining a brigadier general for the rest of the war.
+--- 14926066
+>>14925992
+No, nothing changed, they still wanted a swift end.
+McClellan was sabotaged, he could not get shoes to his men due to Halleck while Halleck gave Grant 40,000 men from the Washington garrison. 
+And no Grant did not divide the Confederacy. 80% of the industry and supply was in the East for the comfederacy.
+>made headway slowly but surely
+Took him half a year to get where McClellan got in weeks, Grant also failed in his two objectives, he was given two explicit objectives, Defeat Lee or Take Richmond, he did neither and Richmond itself was unguarded at the time. 
+No, he did not keep Lee locked in place. Lee was able to detach an entire corps, something he could not do when McClellan was around.
+--- 14926072
+And then after William Rosecrans got booted from the Army of the Cumberland he ended up commanding in Missouri. Grant ordered him to dispatch some troops to reinforce Sherman but Rosecrans said that horrible stuff would happen and secessionists were making dangerous plots in the state so he needed every last available man. needless to say Grant was not impressed by his predictions of dire catastrophe if he sent Sherman those troops.
+--- 14926108
+>>14925992
+>ending the war quickly just wasn't important anymore
+lmao
+--- 14926119
+>>14925833
+Grant hated Buell because without Buell Shiloh is a confederate win.
+--- 14926126
+>>14926066
+>>14926108
+they wanted a swift end, but Lincoln surely realized that waltzing into Richmond with a bigger army wasn't still possible.
+--- 14926127
+>>14925787
+>cursed with the army that was the superior to Grant’s Western army in every way
+lel. You know Grant had a breakdown and was bullied by the AOP officers right? Meade who had credibility with the Men had to give his approval to Grant before Grant was taken seriously.
+>spooked easily
+You do know they had less major routes than the army of the West right?
+--- 14926130
+>>14925775
+Lincoln had no issue giving 40,000 men to Grant.
+--- 14926177
+>>14926066
+>Took him half a year to get where McClellan got in weeks
+dumb McClellan simp. Big Mac might as well as be on the other side of the planet since he wasn't pushing for Richmond and floored it as soon as shit got real. There's no parallel between the two here aside from the distance you dumb mongrel. Grant did something completely unprecedented in the civil war hitherto - he actually crossed the Rappahannock and managed to stay across it. He pushed his weight around. He didn't adhere to the rules that his enemies set. He casually marched by the army of Virginia over to Richmond after Lee "defeated" him. He wasn't a pussy, he didn't let his enemy buckbreak him, he didn't step down like McClellan, Burnside and Hooker did. 
+
+Downplaying Vicksburg isn't gonna get you anywhere else than the summit of Mt. Disingenuous by the way. 
+
+>Lee was able to detach an entire corps
+A skeleton corps, and him detaching a 'corps' to defend Bermuda hundred was just playing into his plan. Grant got the rebels into a position where they were damned no matter what they did and every move was a losing one, while McClellan got handed detailed enemy plans and managed to wrench a bittersweet 'victory' with them.
+--- 14926200
+>>14926119
+actually Buell was a douchebag who tried to stab him in the back following Ft. Donelson and also an unabashed pro-slavery Democrat. he was probably one of the single douchiest Union generals in the entire war. way back in the 1840s when he was a young junior officer he almost got court martialed for beating an enlisted man who disrespected him.
+--- 14926203
+>>14925213
+Cleanse it of what? Being the best army in the Union?
+Need you be reminded when the weaker of Lee’s forces were sent West they completely stomped on the Western armies. 
+The AOP was vastly superior to anything in the West. Probably owning to them more Northern European and raised in a harsher climate than the Southern Germans of the West.
+--- 14926246
+>>14924733
+It is Fabian because it is less Napoleon and more Gustavus Adolphus. As I said, it does not need to be cut and dried identical to the military definition of a Fabian strategy. It incorporated enough elements from it that it became distinguishable ironically from the wannabe Napoleons who believed battles could only ever be large sweeping maneuvers and head long charges. 
+It was far more sophisticated than anything any other Union general came up with. It was in the field never decisively beaten as the records demonstrate.
+--- 14926303
+>>14924566
+McClellan was correct about the government betraying him. They really did have it in for the guy because he was successful.
+Grants memoirs are all lies btw. Everyone who read it also said so. Grant was an excellent politician. His war memoirs were about politely burying opponents he secretly hated/feared would steal his thunder and humble bragging achievements which trivial in nature would be played up to be grand and brilliant.
+--- 14926313
+>>14924559
+Well I did list specific examples and only told you to read more because you got things factually wrong.
+Your inability to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong and make another less fallacious argument is what lead to making such a low effort bad faith post here where you look for an out.
+--- 14926362
+>>14926200
+>he was a douche bro
+yeah? So What? He saved Grant’s bacon at Shiloh which lead to animosity between the two of them. Grant famously in his memoirs lied about Buell and claimed Shiloh could have been won without him. While the reality is the Confederates claimed victory at the end of day one and the Union had no intention of staging a counter attack till 15,000 fresh soldiers arrived.
+People like Ord were tolerated, liked, and even covered for by the Halleck gang. Ord was had a bunch of secret letters hoping the confederacy would win, this was suppressed by Halleck and the evidence destroyed.
+--- 14926376
+>>14926303
+>His war memoirs were about politely burying opponents
+Grant's memoirs where written when he was dying and penniless and wanted to provide for his family before he finally kicked it.
+
+If you want to read the memoirs of someone who is ACTUALLY just trying to bury political opponents go read Jeff Davis' memoirs.
+--- 14926382
+>>14915682 (OP)
+Yeah, McLellan was based. He may have overestimated the the size of the enemy but still. God forbid a general not want to send his soldiers into a potential meatgrinder, which would have fallen into the Southern plan to make the Northerners spend so much blood they wouldn't want to continue fighting.
+--- 14926464
+I respect McClellan for being considerate of his troops and not whimsically sending people to die attacking fortifications upfront like grant habitually did, but in the reality of war and politics this made him the worse commander. Also he was rather petty and vindictive to those that displeased or disagreed with him.
+--- 14926530
+>>14926376
+>If you want to read the memoirs of someone who is ACTUALLY just trying to bury political opponents go read Jeff Davis' memoirs.
+Or for that matter McClellan's self-serving memoir.
+--- 14926538
+>>14926376
+Beauregard famously refused to attend Davis's funeral as he said "There wasn't a single thing I agree with him on."
+--- 14926574
+>The Army of the Potomac was running lean in June 1863. Next to the battlefield casualties sustained at Chancellorsville, a large number of nine month regiments recruited the previous fall were going home with their enlistment terms expiring. The army took only about 80,000 men into Pennsylvania while it had had around 100,000 in April. To be fair there were plenty of other troops available: the eternal Washington garrison, whole divisions down on the Virginia Peninsula, assorted brigades and regiments here and there, but these were not for Joe Hooker. The War Department would not let him have them and when he asked for them, he received assorted excuses and nagging in return. It was obvious that Halleck and Stanton did not want Hooker in command of the army for another battle, but were trying to get him to bow out by resigning rather than simply firing him outright--nobody could trust that he might get cold feet again, this time on Northern soil where defeat was inadmissible. No doubt they had in mind what George Meade referred to as "the ridiculous image we present of changing our commander after every battle."[3]
+--- 14926600
+>>14926530
+>>14926200
+Buell never wrote a memoir but he contributed a series of "I dindonuffin" articles to some newspaper defending his actions during the war.
+--- 14926642
+What is it about this website and idiot contrarians who read wikipedia and think they're experts?
+--- 14926671
+>>14925775
+Grant had suggested Franklin, an old friend of his since West Point, to command in the Shenandoah Valley but Franklin was politically suspect, had never displayed any notable battlefield prowess, and also recovering from a wound sustained during the Red River Campaign. So Lincoln said hell fucking no. Well, Grant accepted that and didn't whine about it like McClellan surely would have.
+
+Not that the clueless Franklin knew yet that his career as a general was done. in August 1864 he was writing to Baldy Smith saying that the Shenandoah command would be a neat assignment and the two of them should consider taking it.
+--- 14926675
+>>14926642
+Wikipedia has the same attitude towards McClellan, that he was a good logistical guy but he didn’t have the guts to lead
+--- 14926717
+>Looking at the situation from his desk in Washington DC, Edwin Stanton felt that this army was not quite subordinate to the civilian branch of government and he saw cliques everywhere--officers who had been friends since West Point, the Mexican War, the Indian wars on the Plains, and he resolved to break them up. The destruction of Fitz-John Porter was just the beginning; it was a message sent to any officers who would not go along with the administration's program for winning the war. There was no room for the McClellans, Buells, or Porters of the world, that body of officers who were overtly Democrats, who did not hide their admiration for the South, and who would not accept abolition of slavery as a fact.[9]
+--- 14926744
+>>14926717
+McClellan at least saved his nastiest anti-administration remarks for his private letters to his wife but Porter actually told a newspaper reporter that Lincoln was a massive faggot.
+--- 14926774
+>>14926744
+Porter had the bad luck to clash with John Pope, a Republican hard war general. Neither of them commanded an army in the Civil War again but Pope remained in the army and eventually retired in the 1880s a major general.
+--- 14926815
+>>14926642
+McClellan bad Grant good is the wikipedia take
+--- 14926826
+>>14926744
+> Porter actually told a newspaper reporter that Lincoln was a massive faggot
+Based and correct.
+--- 14926833
+Joe Johnson remarked of the situation in May 1862 that "Nobody but McClellan could have hesitated to attack."
+--- 14926932
+>>14926833
+The army of northern Virginia had been defeated after seven pines. McClellan was undeniably advancing towards Richmond and he had no qualms about going on the offensive. Johnston was then wounded and replaced by the much more competent Lee.
+McClellan only stopped his advance towards Richmond after Gaine's mill. Lee would prove, throughout the war, to be able to check and defeat every Union commander that faced him, and he was the only Confederate general capable of stopping McClellan, suffering unsustainable casualties to do so.
+--- 14926958
+>>14926932
+Seven Pines was a stalemate if anything and McClellan as usual had absolutely no involvement in the battle and was miles away when it happened.
+--- 14927042
+pretty sure it was Bruce Catton had a large part in popularizing the Grant cult
+--- 14927067
+>>14926203
+>The Union lost at Chickamauga because they had too many Bavarians in their army
+At last I truly see.
+--- 14927079
+>>14927042
+I blame Ken Burns and his shitty documentary. Nobody else ever did as much damage to McClellan's reputation and to the understanding of the civil war in general.
+--- 14927085
+>>14926826
+>1. Saved lives by ending the war quicker. War is hell and all that; destroying the Southern economy was the best way to win a decisive victory.
+>2. The alternative was letting them prevent the Union from reinforcing DC
+>3. When faced with an existential threat to the republic, the executive is implied to have infinite power to act decisively, even if his actions are later challenged by the courts and/or Congress. 
+>4. Wartime censorship is relatively normal
+>5. I don't know to whom this refers, but it seems fairly minor
+>6. Never happened and has literally zero evidence to support it
+>7. And then Lincoln got Congress to sign off on it which he would have done in the first place if time was not a pressing issue. Also Taney was a blatant partisan and his legal opinions deserve no respect.
+>8. The president does not need consent of Congress to put down an insurrection.
+>9. See above
+>10. See (4)
+>11. Partially true, but it was absolutely not without consent of the citizens of those states
+>12. I've never even heard this one before, but am confident it's bullshit or massively overstated.
+>13. Again, war necessitates the suspension of certain rights. I don't know how you can argue he gutted the Ninth Amendment (unless you perhaps mean the right to own slaves), or the Tenth Amendment (again, unless you're referring to slavery, the abolition of which was entirely justified as a wartime measure designed to win the support of blacks and disrupt the Southern economy).
+>14. I thought they weren't US cities anymore? Funny how the government against which you are rebelling considers you hostile.
+--- 14927217
+>>14926177
+He was pushing for Richmond.
+There is no comparison because McClellan is leagues ahead of Grant.
+>crossed the Rappahanock and managed to stay across it
+You mean like Joe Hooker?
+>casually
+He lost some 30,000 men due to attrition alone for his casual stroll. 
+this was a contributing factor to him receiving the Washington garrison.
+>he pushed his weight around
+And was severely punished for it.
+>he didn’t adhere to rules set by his enemy
+Lee entrenched and Grant hit him head on to catastrophic effect, he literally played directly into Lee’s hands. 
+McClellan didn’t step down. He was shamed, smeared, and formally removed.
+Had they offered McClellan command he would have mantled it.
+>downplaying Vicksburg
+A literal who tier battle which was poetically won because the Commander, Pemberton personally knew Grant and knew he would be let off easy if he gave Grant the victory on the Fourth of July, Grant never had to fight for Vicksburg.
+>it was pivotal
+It was geographically very significant. However it reveals nothing about Grant’s ability as a general, in fact it makes him look bad because he bungled the siege early on and he only takes it due to the Confederates giving it up without a fight. 
+Also Grant basically allowed half of them to escape and the other half were immediately paroled and went on to fight in the next campaign no more than two months later. He didn’t even snag the garrisoned army in a siege. 
+>defend Bermuda hundred
+???
+No, the Second Valley campaign where Early took 10,000 men and probed the defenses of Washington. 
+>Grant got them into a position where they were damned no matter what
+Except they weren’t and he didn’t, they were never in a position where they could not fight. 
+The war was lost in 1862 when Lee did not capture the AOP at Manassas. After that it’s just waiting for the confederate stock to run out.
+Grant never made really brilliant maneuvers. He never attempted to amplify his strength or mitigate Lee’s.
+--- 14927222
+>>14926072
+Grant also said Stones River was a Union defeat during an appearance with Lincoln.
+--- 14927242
+>>14926717
+>>14926744
+The Republicans were based but there’s no need to worship Grant.
+Southerners and Democrats had some fantastic figures. 
+It is a real shame the American Nation is nothing but a free for all within every circle of their society.
+--- 14927243
+>>14927222
+ugh, Rosecrans was another one of those "I can't move or do anything unless I have this and that and about 60,000 additional troops" types. he sat in camp for six months doing fuck-all only to then campaign and get his shit pushed in at Chickamauga so Grant had to rescue him
+--- 14927249
+>>14926958
+You do know Lee was often miles away from battles when they took place right?
+McClellans staff was excellent, he embodied the idea of a Grand Strategist and a machine like army.
+--- 14927251
+>>14927067
+It unironically be like that.
+--- 14927268
+>>14927243
+>VGH all these goys I denied resupply and reinforcement requests to are too slow TOO SLOW! Mr Lincoln, you know who should replace them “who?” Well I’m glad you asked, I’ve got a personal friend and I can attest to his fine character and quality as a leader…
+This man literally built the Republican Party and shifted the Overton window so far in their favor it would take 3 assassinations and 55 years before the Democrats would make any meaningful headway in politics.
+Based, but he’s always ignored.
+--- 14927276
+>>14927085
+>>2. The alternative was letting them prevent the Union from reinforcing DC
+Fake news. The Lincoln Administration was hostile towards a state that had voted to remain loyal to the USA due to it opposing the president politically, arresting the people who were actually elected into their offices and replacing them with members of his own political party. The military also went to various town armories in Maryland and confiscated their weapons. Not the weapons of rebels, but the weapons of U. S. citizens. A direct violation of the 2nd Amendment. Maryland was put under a military dictatorship by the very government that it reaffirmed its loyalty towards. There is no excuse for this.
+--- 14927297
+>>14926203
+>Probably owning to them more Northern European
+I’m sorry, what?
+Millions of Scandinavians and Northern Germans settled in the Midwest/Western states and formed a large portion of the Union armies there.
+--- 14927304
+>>14927297
+They still had less Corded Ware Aryan than The Irish of the Union.
+--- 14927433
+>>14926246
+>As I said, it does not need to be cut and dried identical to the military definition of a Fabian strategy
+well if it doesn't meet the definition of Fabian strategy, then it isn't really a Fabian strategy at all, is it?
+--- 14927447
+>>14926815
+yet OP exclusively quotes wiki articles.
+curious.
+--- 14927563
+>>14927447
+People can look at the same data and anecdotes and end up with different conclusions.
+--- 14927567
+>Not normally a catty or vengeful individual, Grant did have his moments where he could be utterly unforgiving of those who had crossed him and the principle target of his wrath seems to have been Henry Halleck. Some time after Appomattox, he obtained War Department documents which revealed that Halleck had tried to stab him in the back during the interlude between Ft. Donelson and Shiloh.
+
+>During the war Grant had been unaware of this and considered Halleck a friend. It was only later that he found how the latter had born false witness to McClellan, then commander-in-chief of the army, about how his command in late February 1862 was disorganized, demoralized, and undisciplined, and that Grant was AWOL. Worst of all included Halleck's remark that "It has come to my attention that since the capture of Donelson and Henry that General Grant has resumed his former bad habits."
+
+>Halleck's remarks had been made at a rather bad time when he had been denied supreme command of the Western theater and was not in the most cheerful temperament, and after he did get that command in the spring, his disposition improved markedly. Grant however utterly savaged Halleck in his memoirs and could not muster a single kind word about him.
+--- 14927775
+>>14925992
+>Grant didn't skedaddle like McClellan did
+Because he didn't recieve orders from DC to abandon all his gains and withdraw? Are you saying McClellan should have mutinied? Refused the evacuation order?
+--- 14927806
+>>14927217
+>He was pushing for Richmond
+Proof?
+--- 14927945
+>>14915682 (OP)
+>Invincibility lies within the defense, the possibility of victory in the attack. - Sun Tzu
+Little Mac was a parade general, and was unsuited to modern war. Nobody in the Civil War really was ready for modern combat, but the Union really began to understand it towards the end of the war. K/D doesn't really matter. What matters is forcing your foe into a bad position and destroying his ability to resist.
+--- 14928012
+>Although Grant had never been a political man or an abolitionist, he increasingly came to believe the Republican program for winning the war was the only way. Slavery was finished as an institution and the South's ability to wage war had to be broken. The Democrat way of waging the war was unwinnable and would lead to the nation's wealth and manpower being exhausted in vain. That was certainly how Lincoln and Stanton saw it, anyway. They may have been right or wrong but the important part was that they did believe it.
+
+>As the 1864 election campaign went on, McClellan too came to realize the two parties had diametrically opposite ideas of how to win the war. "Grant has clearly gone over to the other side," he wrote his friend Francis Barlow. "Meade is neutral for the time being while Hancock, Warren, and Wright are waiting to see how everything goes."
+--- 14928025
+>>14927567
+Halleck had been chosen as general-in-chief because he had written military texts, also translated French ones, and was considered a very wise strategic mind. Unfortunately, he had no actual experience with combat outside witnessing a naval bombardment of a Mexican port in 1847 and knew little of war outside textbooks. He was also vain and gossipy, and strictly a desk jockey with no interest or desire to lead troops in the field. After becoming general-in-chief he became increasingly useless. The one great asset Halleck had was that unlike most of the professional soldiers, he had a feeler for the political aspects of the war.
+--- 14928110
+>>14924060
+sears was debunked as a literal liar and mcclellan hater

his/14918443.txt

@@ -370,3 +370,139 @@ yeah but what about the jew god and talking snake?
 --- 14922526
 >>14921727
 >plants were created before the sun bro
+--- 14923952
+bump
+--- 14924679
+>>14921953
+I was a C++ .NET college instructor
+--- 14924683
+What's weird is how many people on 4chan pretend to be religious to pwn the libs.
+--- 14924685
+>>14924683
+Yeah... The famous libs who browse 4chan.
+--- 14924687
+>>14924685
+oh so you admit you are in a hugbox/safespace. Snowflake :)
+--- 14924818
+>>14924685
+They don't have to be on 4chan for you to seethe about them, they're in your head rent free
+--- 14924856
+I dare you OP, I double dare you even, perform one of the rituals in this book. Get a .pdf and follow one of the rituals. Do it with the exact mindset you have now. Gods aren´t real, atheism/science is the only answer. Then come back and report your results. Would be fascinated to hear your experiences.
+--- 14924879
+>>14924685
+It’s almost all you guys talk about.
+--- 14924898
+>>14924856
+Not op, but I'll try it. Sounds fun.
+--- 14924938
+>>14924856
+Post the book
+--- 14924978
+>>14919116
+>because something cannot come out of nothing by itself
+
+Like god?
+--- 14925003
+>>14924938
+I have a physical copy. A .pdf can be found online.
+--- 14925107
+>>14925003
+>I have a physical copy
+Post a photo.
+--- 14925119
+>>14925003
+Why do you have a physical copy of a book you say is evil?
+--- 14925148
+>>14918630
+>if theism was true, there would be evidence of gods intervening in people’s lives in a myriad of different ways and theistic countries would be better off than secular countries
+>there isn’t
+>theistic countries are shitholes compared to secular ones
+>concluded
+--- 14925155
+>>14925119
+Where exactly did I say that book is evil? I never said not implied such a thing
+--- 14925164
+>>14925107
+Why? I'm at work, I'll post it in 4h30 if you really care that much, which I'm struggling to see why you would.
+--- 14925192
+>>14925148
+I meant non theistic religions, as in anything spiritual without a god. Technically, they are also atheists but not the Hardcore materialist kind.
+--- 14925293
+>>14922460
+'Ex nihilo nihil fit'. it's a metaphysical principle that was made explicit a very long time ago. Parmenides no less.
+
+Anything that is is necessarily referred to a principle, cause or ground out of which it is, in which it is and by which it is explained
+
+>>14924978
+no. not like God
+--- 14925312
+>>14925293
+That doesn't explain how you know that unless you're saying that you know that because Parmenides said so.
+--- 14925321
+>>14925312
+i formulated the principle (in a rather relaxed way, given). what is it exactly that you're asking?
+--- 14925325
+>>14925321
+>You just said something can't come from nothing. How do you know?
+Repeating that something can't come from nothing in Latin doesn't explain anything.
+--- 14925343
+>>14925325
+>Anything that is is necessarily referred to a principle, cause or ground out of which it is, in which it is and by which it is explained
+
+explain how this isn't self-evident then. I didn't copy this from anywhere, it's just a formulation of that principle
+--- 14925353
+>>14925343
+Explain how it is self evident first. Otherwise I'll have to conclude it's self evident that you don't know what you're talking about.
+--- 14925429
+>>14921776
+Reminds me of the old black lady that I encountered on a bus who told me to burn in hell because I refused her church pamplet.
+--- 14925447
+>>14918443 (OP)
+The decline of Christianity in the western world has:
+>increased fatherlessness 
+>increased abortions
+>spawned transgenderism
+>widespread homosexuality
+>riots
+>decimated the birth rate
+>increased divorce rates
+>increased materialism
+>severe loss of culture
+>commercialization of all tradition 
+
+I’ll keep my imaginary friends thanks.
+--- 14925573
+>>14925447
+I don't think it works when you know they are imaginary
+--- 14925577
+>>14922460
+>>14922209
+>>14922001
+if there are no things (no physical laws)
+name the thing that stops something from appearing
+--- 14925606
+>>14919116
+What does it have to do with any "god"?
+--- 14926243
+>>14918443 (OP)
+My tulpa is technically an imaginary friend and neither one of us is stupid.
+--- 14927002
+>>14918443 (OP)
+Just because you didn't perceived it, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I see miracles daily. Miracles that you ignore everywhere you go.
+--- 14927008
+>>14918443 (OP)
+>pic rel
+My Catholic friend isn’t stupid. Don’t be mean.
+--- 14927914
+>>14921773
+>NDEs
+>>14921811
+>Nothing more than hallucinations.
+>>14921816
+>this is possible as a mere chemical experience
+
+NDEs don't prove a thing. And the best part is -even if Heaven were real, it would fucking suck.
+>pic rel
+--- 14927926
+>>14918443 (OP)
+There’s no convincing evidence you exist either. Look, I know you hate your father but I remember when I was thirteen years old, too.

his/14919226.txt

@@ -133,3 +133,236 @@ The red ensign is shit. Our current flag is so much better.
 >import hundreds of thousands of paddies, wogs, hohols and balkaniggers
 >EYYYYYYY I DON'T FEEL REPRESENTED BY THE NATIONAL FLAG OVA 'ERE!
 Don't know what they expected
+--- 14924138
+>>14920212
+>Also the two world wars did a number on Quebec
+Didn't QC contribute the least, proportionally speaking when all provinces are considered?
+
+>>14922014
+Even without lyrics, it's a damn fine tune. Definitely a shame it got dropped. 'Oh Canada' is fine though I guess.
+
+>>14922385
+This.
+
+>>14922400
+It's 'cucked' because an American retard can't wrap his mind around a sense of loyalty or an appreciation and recognition for one's own heritage.
+
+>>14923683
+Irish are repped on the flag, and most people with Irish background in Canada's ancestors came to the country around the time of the famine, some two decades prior to Canadian confederation. Despite what the Irish today believe, support for the British monarchy was actually quite high in 19th century Ireland - many Irish historians of today confirm this, and it was true in centuries prior as well (hence the English monarchists fleeing to Ireland during the English Civil War).
+
+Anyway, I can't stand the bitching from people like that. They showed up late for the milk and honey and think it's fine to piss all over the country's earlier heritage. Fuck them.
+--- 14924172
+>>14919226 (OP)
+Should have went with "the flag to suit the minority".
+--- 14924270
+>>14924172
+Pandering to whiny minorities is a Canadian national pastime. 
+
+t. Anglo-Canadian with family ties in North America going back to the early 1600s.
+--- 14925181
+>>14922008
+No it isn't. Fleur-de-lys against a blue background, as seen in the red ensign, wasn't something revolutionary Parisians came up with.
+--- 14925257
+>>14925181
+Yeah wtf is that fag talking about? Blue has been the French colour of choice since the medieval period, along with the Fleur-de-lys.
+--- 14925322
+>>14922449
+>No! You can’t identify with your racial and ethnic roots!
+>You need to give your loyalty to and identify with a rootless and consumerized state that breaks completely with its past!
+--- 14925335
+>>14925322
+Yank cultural imperialism at its finest. Everyone has to act like them, apparently. But moreover it's that they despite that Canada was the loyalist country, which went to show that not everyone was down with their stupid 'revolution' which was largely predicated on bullshit.
+--- 14925347
+>>14920227
+>Acknowledging your roots is "cucked"
+This mentality is literally why we will never be allowed to have a normal country with an actual identity aside from "more liberal than the USA"
+--- 14925350
+>>14920499
+1931 is when Canada becomes an independent country for real.
+But there's no real fixed date for the national identity to develop, it just happened gradually and slowly, it's kinda like hitting puberty.
+--- 14925358
+>>14922014
+Maple Leaf Forever as an anthem would make Quebec declare a full blown Jihad.
+--- 14925361
+>>14922395
+>symbolizing the country's independence
+YES YES
+>and its emergence as a modern, multicultural nation.
+OH FOR FUCKS SAKE AAAAAAA
+--- 14925366
+>>14924138
+>Didn't QC contribute the least, proportionally speaking when all provinces are considered?
+That's what he means. Quebec were a bunch of do nothings who refused to fight and they were mega butthurt about Canada fighting in the wars. As PET said, he didn't even know the war was "a big deal" until he went to the USA. Quebec just couldn't relate to Vimy Ridge nationalism.
+--- 14925395
+>>14925366
+>Quebec were a bunch of do nothings who refused to fight and they were mega butthurt about Canada fighting in the wars. As PET said, he didn't even know the war was "a big deal" until he went to the USA.
+Fucking disgusting honestly. Home of Adrien Arcand and Lionel Groulx too, of course. Fucking Quebec.
+--- 14925433
+>>14925347
+I find it hard to imagine that Anglo-Canadians could have ever been anything else than a version of Americans.
+--- 14925441
+>>14925433
+Not familiar with the concept of loyalism, are we?
+--- 14925448
+>>14925441
+Loyalist Americans are still Americans
+--- 14925450
+>>14925448
+Loyalism was a key foundational concept in Anglo-Canadian identity... so once they became Canadians, how were they still Americans?
+--- 14925452
+>>14925448
+and pre-revolution Americans were still Brits, so what's your point?
+--- 14925492
+>>14925450
+What actually differentiated loyalists from Americans other than the fact that they were loyalists?
+--- 14925560
+>>14925492
+That came afterwards retard, as Anglo-Canadian identity emerged from the 1780s onward.
+--- 14925566
+>>14925560
+What came afterwards?
+--- 14925575
+>>14925433
+you are correct
+--- 14925591
+>>14925450
+British North Americans
+--- 14925653
+>>14920492
+Why?? That sounds based as fuck. Strong local identities are the future. Are you some sort of globohomo supporter?? Because as far as I know, they are massive lovers of ethnic, local and national identities.
+--- 14925657
+>>14925653
+massive lovers of ethnic, local and national identities' destruction and erasure*
+--- 14925661
+>>14925653
+>they are massive lovers of ethnic, local and national identities
+lol
+--- 14925664
+>>14925591
+Canadians definitely aren't British, and I know this because I am British.
+We just don't share all that much in common desu 
+Sports 
+>Canadians play Ice Hockey and Basketball
+>Brits play Football and Rugby and Cricket 
+Cities 
+>Canadian cities are big suburbs like Americans, live in detached houses or with skyscrapers
+>British cities are dense medieval ones with Georgian and Victorian era terraced houses
+Dialect 
+>British slang and phonetics is more similar to Australia and NZ and South Africa, say stuff like "mate", "banter", etc.
+>Canadians sound like Americans and say "dude", "bro", etc.
+Drinking 
+>Canadians don't have British and Irish style pubs
+>UK and Ireland and Australia do
+Government
+>Canada is a decentralized Federal country 
+>UK is highly centralized unitary state
+--- 14925692
+>>14925664
+>Canadians don't have British and Irish style pubs
+Yes they do.
+
+I've been to some in Quebec.
+--- 14925697
+>>14925664
+The UK does have less high-rise buildings compared to other countries, just like the rest of the Anglosphere.
+--- 14925724
+>>14919226 (OP)
+That flag is literally the most bland, generic British colonial ensign possible and the modern one is actually a really well designed flag imo. Its straightforward and aesthetically pleasing. I've no idea why people hate it and like that mess other than some chuds getting wanting a blatant symbol of British imperialism to jerk off over.
+--- 14925749
+>>14920479
+Quebecers would be amongst my favorite nations in the world, if only they dropped that godless gay ass secularism and went back to catholicism.
+--- 14925756
+>>14925661
+Read>>14925657
+Fag
+--- 14925778
+>>14925756
+They don't care about any kind of national identity outside of a vaguely Quebecois one, and they treat any kind of local identity that has diverged from that vision with disdain.
+t. lived there
+>>14925749
+I don't particularly care about it either way but their "secularism" disproportionately impacts and is enforced against non-christians.
+--- 14925781
+>>14925664
+This, Canadians are the cultural brothers of Great Lakes Americans or PNW Americans or New Englanders depending on the region. Love you guys, but ethnically Canadian is about as different from rust belt cultures for example as Dixie culture is from rust belt culture. Doesn’t mean Canadian independence doesn’t work best politically though, just that functionally Anglo-Canadians are Americans, especially in the West where the rail lines, economy, and even much of the colonizing stock came from south of the border.
+--- 14925792
+>>14925778
+Don't they feel any sense of common identity with French Canadians outside of Quebec?
+--- 14925802
+>>14925778
+>disproportionately impacts and is enforced against non-christians.
+
+Wtf I love quebecois secularism now
+--- 14925834
+>>14925781
+You retards should just unite and create the United States of North America already. VGH, imagine the power and geopolitical possibilities...
+
+You new worlders are a bunch of retards. Its not like eurasia where every 2 meters you bump into a completely different and milenary nation. North America is of British Protestant origin and Latin America is of Iberian Catholic origin. Thats fucking it. South America should also unify like a catholic iberian version of the United States of North America.
+--- 14925835
+>>14925749
+>Go back to being a shithole
+Uh non merci
+--- 14925839
+>>14925835
+Repent, faggot nigger.
+--- 14925870
+>>14925792
+It's not particularly high on their radar. Nearly every francophone in Ontario has access to french services and NB is officially bilingual. The rest aren't very geographically concentrated.
+--- 14926103
+>>14925870
+This is an anglo disinfo agent, dont believe in his words.
+--- 14926220
+>>14925781
+Everyone calls Canada a British colony, but desu it's literally an American colony, in the original sense of the word colony. Anglophone Canada was founded by American Loyalists, and Americans continued pouring into the country throughout the 1800s. It's no wonder Canada is Americanized, they're descendants of American immigrants!
+--- 14926225
+>>14925835
+esti d’anglo, retourne a t*ronto
+--- 14926378
+>>14926220
+>it's a colony of a british colony, not a british colony
+--- 14926567
+>>14925724
+Because it's a fucking leaf. A leaf is a portion of a tree which drops off and rots after a few months. There is no glory in that. It does not give a sense of the Canadian nation (heritage, history, etc.). It's just a generic placeholder.
+--- 14926606
+>>14926567
+the Red Ensign has three fucking leafs on it, and it's the only part of that flag that's unique to Canada. The Maple Leaf Forever was composed in 1867, the year of confederation. 
+Leafs might be a lame national symbol but they are indeed Canada's national symbol.
+--- 14926986
+>>14926606
+They symbolize Canada’s vast nature, which by itself isn’t that impressive as far as flag symbolisms go, however Canada is a resource economy and taming the nature has been fundamental to the success of the country. Pairing that recognition with the design, it ain’t bad. Although I prefer the Red Ensign, especially as I see it as our call to Australia and New Zealand’s flags, the one major upside about the Canadian flag is that it is very and immediately recognizable.
+--- 14927000
+>>14925664
+>Canadians don't have British and Irish style pubs
+
+Is this a joke? These are all over the fuckin’ place. As for hockey, it’s worth noting that its recognized provenance is from games played in Britain and Ireland in the 18th century and before.
+--- 14927010
+>>14926225
+Mec, je viens de Toronto, va te faire foutre
+--- 14927013
+>>14926220
+>it's literally an American colony, in the original sense of the word colony
+
+The primary definition of a colony is ‘a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country and occupied by settlers from that country.’ So, no, it was not and never was an American colony. Keep on coping though.
+--- 14927028
+>>14925664
+>>14925664
+Way to ignore the fact that Canada is a parliamentary constitutional monarchy just like Britain under your 
+‘government’ header btw. Literally the exact same kind of government set up, as inherited directly from Britain.
+
+Also, depending on where one is, Georgian and Victorian-era houses can most certainly be found. When I visited my relatives in England last autumn, my jaw dropped because I felt so at home with how familiar so many of the houses were. I grew up thinking those styles must have been uniquely Canadian, because I had never seen them in the states nor through any American media.
+
+You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. But you already outed yourself in that regard when you said that Canada doesn’t have any British or Irish pubs, which couldn’t be further from the truth, since there is most certainly a very strong Isles pub heritage in the country which is still present today.
+--- 14927081
+>>14925664
+Rugby is more popular in Canada than you might think, anon… it’s not hockey, sure, but it’s definitely played across Canada.
+--- 14927103
+>>14926567
+>There is no glory in that
+
+Foliage has always symbolised sacredness and glory, why do you think Greek athletes and Roman generals wore laurel wreaths or German knight's crosses had oak leaves? Leaves and trees are cool. You've literally been gaslit into hating your own unique national emblem by a dumb 4chan meme.
+--- 14927157
+>>14924138
+>support for the British monarchy was actually quite high in 19th century Ireland - many Irish historians of today confirm this
+
+Not to derail the topic into Anglo-Irish relations (easily one of the most cancerous topics on this board) but aside from Protestant-majority parts of Ulster it would not be accurate to say that there was much active "support" for the British monarchy in Ireland in the 19th century. Many people pretty much just accepted it as a fact of life, but whenever there was any kind of popular political organisation, it was invariably nationalistic. 
+
+The 17th century and the whole Stuart and Jacobite era was a whole different kettle of fish politically.

his/14920024.txt

@@ -1,16 +1,11 @@
 -----
 --- 14920024
 How come Catholics and Muslims love Mary but Protestants and Jews hate Mary?
---- 14920035
->>14920024 (OP)
-Browns love their mother. Whites hate them.
 --- 14920048
 Not bowing before a statue of Mary = hating her. I’m sure Mary would want your focus to be on her son Jesus than of her, it’s really the Catholics that hate Mary
 --- 14920050
 >>14920035
 The Mother and Wife of Jesus Christ; the Blessed Virgin Mary Magdalene, all honour to Her name.
---- 14920053
-Because j*ws and pr*tties are heretical evil cunts. So are mudslimes but less so than the first two.
 --- 14920067
 >>14920024 (OP)
 https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=Marium
@@ -57,9 +52,6 @@ going Judeo-Muslim bro?
 --- 14921075
 >>14920048
 You are the typical protestant filth, ignorant and forever worthless.
---- 14921083
->>14920035
-/thread
 --- 14921120
 >>14921075
 keep praying to your queen of heaven to deliver you, I'll stick with God the father, Lord Jesus Chirst, and the Holy Spirit that guides us thank you.
@@ -213,3 +205,41 @@ The church of Rome for all its pomp and ceremony is nothing more than a sepulchr
 >>14923608
 Thank you
 I would clarify we're happy to venerate her like Bede, but not as a catholic calls Marian devotions veneration
+--- 14924478
+>>14920024 (OP)
+Because Jesus upset the Jewish apple cart.
+--- 14925050
+>>14923608
+>I attend a Catholic Church and I venerate Mary, but I admit many Catholics worship her, albeit unintentionally, and many people have this strange vision of her as a "female goddess of virginity" which is completely wrong.
+Stop trying to virtue signal to Prots.
+--- 14925089
+>>14923622
+She was a pious woman who was chosen as an important tool to execute God's will. We should respect her for that and just as Paul holds up his own chastity as something good to be emulated in 1 Corinthians 7, scripture also paints Mary's devotion to God's will as something to be emulated. Praying to her or bowing to her is a bridge too far though.
+--- 14925352
+>>14920024 (OP)
+Muslims HATE Mary.
+--- 14925694
+>>14925352
+Based. Fuck idolaters
+--- 14925737
+>>14920024 (OP)
+Because they worship Isis and deifying Mary helps them cope.
+--- 14925748
+>>14925694
+I support the ongoing importation in all protestant countries of arab and african muslims. Go on twitter to see how ''Based'' the enrichment is. As the muslims say 'inshallah'. kek
+--- 14925935
+>>14920024 (OP)
+the roman worship of mary has the same characteristics as the insults thrown at her by jews.
+Roman-Kikeolics are the same demon and enemy of Israel, the tribe raised to rule the south by the pharaohs own decree.
+Romans and Kikes hate Israel because they hate the true Egypt that acknowledged them.
+--- 14927358
+>>14922974
+Liar
+--- 14927359
+>>14925737
+Meds now.
+--- 14927759
+The fact that Martin Luther and John Calvin would be considered idolaters by contemporary protestants says a lot about protestantism.
+--- 14927791
+>>14927759
+I get that Luther believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary, but I do not understand why he thought it was theologically important given his overall beliefs.

his/14920743.txt

@@ -1,15 +1,8 @@
 -----
---- 14920840
-Nigger poop cum8
 --- 14920868
 Adding "muh" to legitimate arguments doens't make them untrue lol
 --- 14920885
 /r same meme about missile technology
---- 14920890
->>14920840
-America lost the gulf war. 
->>14920743 (OP)
-You left out tons of planes and many of the kills were by soviets.
 --- 14920907
 >>14920743 (OP)
 >mig 21 had 500 losses
@@ -141,3 +134,37 @@ t. still uses a fridge made by Soviets in 1960-ies.
 >>14920743 (OP)
 Iteration. Commies designed/chose things by commitee and ran the manufacturing top down, rarely budging. Some group would decide that toothbrushes would be such and such size, in this and this many colors, with this and this many thistles, and just crank them out without any deviation. Anyone with a better idea would have to scratch tons of backs and then deal with some boomer who didn't want to budge anyways.
 Capitalism freed up the market to produce a gazillion different toothbrushes. Maybe most were shit, but there was always a better idea to come about eventually.. and so the market would follow that for awhile. Rinse, repeat.. the market ever striving and redesigning for the perfect toothbrush.
+--- 14923803
+>>14920743 (OP)
+The actual reason was that communist countries were usually semi-feudal shitholes before ebil gommunism and had to catch up to the West in developing their MoPs and educating skilled personnel but you don't wanna hear that because you're a niggerfaggot namefag treating this board as /pol/ with dates
+--- 14923968
+>>14923598
+>still uses a fridge made by Soviets in 1960-ies.
+This you?
+--- 14923986
+>>14923803
+Bullshit. Before WW2, Czechia was as developed as Austria, while Hungary and Poland were better off than Greece. The only reason they fell behind is called communism.
+--- 14924000
+>>14923986
+Greece and Austria weren't industrial superpowers like the US, UK, or West Germany you delusional faggot, stop pushing your dogmatic seething about the commies
+--- 14924004
+>>14920743 (OP)
+Because their scientist are too charged with ideological dogma, or they're getting supervused by ideological retards.
+--- 14924026
+>>14924000
+>Austria-Hungary wasn't an industrial powerhouse
+Commie education. Most of the AH industry was in Czechia btw.
+--- 14924042
+>>14923803
+How do you know that's the reason?
+--- 14925328
+>>14920743 (OP)
+>Why was communist technology such shit compared to capitalist and fascist technology?
+It was fine aside shitty gorund vehicles with paper armor. Soviets always had better missiles than the USA. Probably also better submarines and worse but good enough aircraft
+--- 14925822
+>>14921749
+>>14922936
+I read it was seen as an idiotic decision even back then.
+--- 14926138
+>>14920743 (OP)
+Don’t compare fascist technology to communist “technology”

his/14921089.txt

@@ -53,3 +53,60 @@ Why even live. It really is the most underrated point in human history.
 --- 14923391
 >>14923230
 You'd be paying taxes to them if anything. I'd rather larp as a crusader.
+--- 14924161
+>>14922646
+Matthew Paris' Chronica Majora. Frederick II apparently sent this to the kings of Europe calling for an anti-Mongol crusade, but nothing came of it because he was constantly at war with the Pope.
+--- 14924185
+>>14921089 (OP)
+I would say to myself: "Man, this Genghis guy is up to no good. I hate this, I can't take any more of this. I don't know what I'm gonna do… What am I gonna do? I'm Genghis' top guy. What am I gonna do?Genghis Khan himself chose me to lead the horde!" […]
+I use a combination of lies, manipulation, cheating, stealing, gaslighting, bullying, insulting and flexing to make sure everyone in my office stays under my thumb where I want them. […]
+"Woah! Genghis Khan needs me? Okay, I'll do it. I'm going to bat for you, Genghis! I got your back, Genghis!"
+--- 14924245
+>>14922626
+A lot of great explorers/voyagers in this century
+>Giovanni da Pian del Carpine
+>William of Rubruck
+>Rabban bar Sauma
+>Marco Polo
+>Zhou Daguan
+>Ch'ang Ch'un
+--- 14925085
+>>14921089 (OP)
+Those Seljuk portals are great but remember how Georgia fleed those Rum Turks one hell away from the green and lovely lanes of Basiani? Georgian architecture and visual arts reached its height also in the 13th century. I'd add the churches of Ertatsminda, Samtavisi, Kabeni to that collage
+--- 14925287
+>>14921089 (OP)
+But /his/ told me they were primitive…
+--- 14925387
+>>14925085
+I was trying to compare the four really big civilization of the era; Latin Christian, East Asian, Islamic and Indian/Southeast Asian. I left Orthodox stuff out because, between the Fourth Crusade and the Mongols, the 13th century was just about their lowest point. Of course there is Orthodox material that could have been included like those Georgian churchs and some early Palaiologan stuff, but it wouldn't have matched the other four.
+--- 14925496
+>>14924245
+Easy to forget the discoveries of 16th-century Europe (and the voyages of ming china) were built upon a great foundation. In the fourteenth century alone voyages would be organized to the canaries and Madeira would be discovered. And of course, in that next century, the great Ibn Battuta would be born.
+The thirteenth century also has plenty of adventurers (like steppe horsemen or maybe Frankish/latin crusaders) if one cares to find them, pretty interesting time.
+--- 14926010
+Bump
+--- 14926383
+Kino 13th century things
+>Mongol Empire in general
+>Kamakura Japan, failed invasions
+>failed Mongol expedition to Java, foundation of Majapahit
+>sack of Baghdad
+>defeat of the Assassins
+>Muslim conquest of north India
+>Franciscan missions to the Mongols
+>Fourth Crusade and Latin Empire
+>rise of France under Philip Augustus
+>Frederick II
+>Guelf-Ghibelline wars
+>rise of Florence
+>collapse of the crusader states
+>success of the reconquista
+>diffusion of gunpowder
+>invention of mechanical clocks, eyeglasses, portolan charts, etc.
+>peak and decline of Pagan and Angkor
+>Battle on the Ice
+>Mamluk Egypt
+>Maragheh observatory
+--- 14928065
+>>14921089 (OP)
+I like how there's a balanced level of power between each civilization, fast forward to 15th century and European started swallowing everything

his/14921464.txt

@@ -22,3 +22,33 @@ I have never heard any Christian say that miracles violate people's free will, i
 >>14922136
 >when the guy claiming to be a prophet of God can call fire out of heaven by praying for it, only the most insane would doubt it
 how you rule out the possibility that the guy is a wizard?
+--- 14923777
+>>14921464 (OP)
+Let's be honest - if anyone ever saw a miracle in this day and age .... they'd likely lose their minds.
+
+Seeing is believing until you can't believe what you see.
+--- 14923782
+>>14921464 (OP)
+The sky jew was big on miracles before photos and video cameras were invented.
+--- 14923826
+>>14921464 (OP)
+The pharisees saw miracles, and decided they had to kill Jesus. The same in Acts, Peter and crew did miracles, and the pharisees would forbid them from doing so.
+So it clearly doesnt violate free will, people can witness them and still think they know better.
+The same happens nowadays. We have here for example a lady who insta healed from egregious disease, attested by 300 doctors and thorough testing, yet in the comments you have many bickering about it. While the heart is hardened, no miracles matter. Same happened to pharao with the plagues of Egypt. 
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaG7mesmdH4 [Embed]
+--- 14923833
+>>14923782
+See this video:
+>>14923826
+--- 14923843
+>>14923833
+>60 minutes
+--- 14923898
+So God reveals his mercy to people whether through demon casting or 1 tap healing or debt cancelling or case overturning etc., when they see power it's up to them whether they follow Jesus. God is always on time so it's up to people how much they want to get blessed. Someone can see the anointing and focus on that instead of God. "Ooo I want to prophecy like that", "Ooo I want to heal like that". You see it a lot in church which is good, important, crucial but God makes sure you don't miss steps.
+--- 14924121
+>>14921464 (OP)
+Yeah. Don't listen to that argument it's not very good.
+--- 14925883
+>>14923826
+I've researched Lourdes a bit. One fun fact is that as medical science progressed, the miracles dried up despite increasing numbers of pilgrims. They eventually had to make up new categories of not so miraculous healings so they'd have at least something to report.

his/14921524.txt

@@ -44,3 +44,33 @@ Slavery.
 >>14921524 (OP)
 >the men of the conquering nation would usually get rid of most of the men and take the women
 that didn't happen though
+--- 14923867
+>>14922128
+Surely one of them must've died with a cock in his hand?
+--- 14923885
+>>14921524 (OP)
+>the men of the conquering nation would usually get rid of most of the men and take the women
+Wrong. The conquerors only replaced the ruling class, which was tiny.
+--- 14923922
+>>14921524 (OP)
+>>14922114
+>>14922185
+>>14922999
+Men, especially twinkish men and boys, would get raped a lot throughout history. One of Socrates' disciplines, Phaedo, was a beautiful boy from Elis who was captured by the Athenians during conquest and sold into sex slavery. Google "male rape" in war, it's more common than you think.
+--- 14925334
+>>14921524 (OP)
+Killed or castrated
+--- 14926994
+>>14923922
+You will never be a real woman
+--- 14927027
+>>14922180
+Fag
+--- 14927948
+>>14927027
+No no anon it would be funny, lol
+
+No one is enjoying the thought of something so pornographic
+--- 14927979
+>>14922180
+Why did this make me hard bros? Its just power dynamics right?

his/14921525.txt

@@ -228,3 +228,146 @@ https://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2022/08/27/coup-d-etat-presume-a-madagasc
 >>14921601
 >Are GLADIO shenanigans typically incompetent?
 The Brabant killers were pretty competent.
+--- 14923727
+>>14922100
+Why do Mishimahomos always cope with this?
+>duhhh he didn't REALLY want a coup
+>he was just being artistic :) he got mocked and fucked up his sudoku to be artistic
+--- 14923729
+>>14921723
+Fishermen with helicopters you say?
+
+A coup isn't an invasion, the plotters just hope that the army will back them, based on the rumors spreading in the barracks. The coup is just a call for action.
+--- 14923737
+>>14921782
+It could have worked and hes still an inspiration to this day. Such daring actions sometimes work
+--- 14923751
+>>14923727
+I haven't seen anything to suggest that he fucked up his seppuku, it was the guy who was supposed to cut his head off who messed it up
+And yes, it was one last emotional outburst before his planned suicide
+Where else is he supposed to do it? A military base after a failed coup is perfect since he was always obsessed with the military after he was rejected from being a suicide pilot during WW2
+--- 14923762
+>>14923729
+Yeah a bad coup is. 
+I can't believe anyone signs up for these suicide missions.
+--- 14923768
+>>14921634
+It gets even better 
+>They put something in my glass water
+>I don't remember anything
+That was his defense afterwards
+--- 14923775
+>>14921525 (OP)
+Those Venetian nationalists who built a "Tank" (just an armored truck really) and "occupied" St. Marks Square, proclaiming to everyone that they are armed and desired the independence of the Venetian Most Serene Republic.
+
+The police shortly discovered they had no weapons or anything and the turrets it had were just tubes. They pried open the tank and arrested everyone inside, who were just apparently drinking wine/vodka iirc.
+--- 14923845
+>>14923762
+>I can't believe anyone signs up for these suicide missions.
+They do and coups sometimes work sometimes dont. Its obviously risky. Either way a coup is not some war, 99% is giving a speech calling for a new government and for loyal units to surrender. It works when enough military already hates the government. Problem is its hard to know if the military hates the government because you can't just do a poll so the plotters have to go by subtle social cues.
+--- 14923857
+>>14921541
+--- 14923860
+>>14921525 (OP)
+Franco Freda was at least brave if stupid
+--- 14923873
+>>14923775
+Why did they put a license plate on their makeshift tank?
+--- 14924602
+>>14923873
+To look cool or smth idk
+--- 14924652
+>>14921525 (OP)
+Whatever those Qtard monarchist boomers in Germany were trying to do there recently probably qualifies
+--- 14924677
+>>14921622
+Plus if any of them actually read his books (besides maybe Sun and Steel if they overlook the homoeroticism) I doubt they'd even like them.
+--- 14924848
+>>14923775
+>They pried open the tank and arrested everyone inside, who were just apparently drinking wine/vodka iirc.
+
+lmao based
+--- 14925221
+>>14922763
+that was probably made up
+--- 14925263
+>>14923210
+But why? What were they going to get out of restoring the ex-PM of Dominica?
+--- 14925338
+>>14923873
+To make it street legal, duh.
+--- 14925522
+>>14924652
+They likely tried nothing, probably larping as well.
+--- 14926205
+>>14921525 (OP)
+>juan guaido
+>arab spring
+>umbrella movement
+>maidan
+all cringe
+--- 14926443
+>>14922601
+Didn't the August coup more or less fall apart because the plotters tried to make Gorbachev resign or give them power and had no backup plan when he said no?
+--- 14926461
+>>14926443
+should have kill him
+--- 14926465
+>>14926461
+Never understood why they didn't desu, by you've already crossed the line by that point, might as well go all the way.
+--- 14926492
+>>14921662
+The Brazilian mockbuster was worse
+>No support from the military
+>Their candidate was hiding in fucking Florida
+>Trash EMPTY government buildings 
+>Leaked footage shows they were let in
+>Even find weapons in the building
+>They don't use them and just surrender to cops once they come in
+>For some reason the government they were supposedly trying to topple made most of the footage classified...
+--- 14926498
+>>14922202
+>the main communist narration about Piazza Fontana doesn't make sense, especially considering recent findings.
+What findings?
+--- 14926504
+>>14926492
+Lula is based because he hates America
+--- 14926515
+>>14921670
+This one was absolutely kino at least, with protestors banging on tanks in the streets of Moscow. Probably the last time in history I’ll feel hope for Russian anything
+--- 14926523
+>>14926515
+https://youtu.be/6VqiMQoMXmw [Embed]
+--- 14926543
+>>14926504
+He hates America in the commie geopolitics sense 
+Socially he is a liberal NWO cuck, which is Americans (Wrongly) backed in and got mad when he did not join the Ukraine war
+Really he is trying to be neutral in a retarded way and just annoying everyone
+>NATO is to blame for the war, Crimea belongs to Rusisa, i am not sending weapons
+>So you are siding with Russia? REEE TRAITOR
+>No, i condemn the invasion, we should try to look for peace, maybe Russia can keep Crimea but hand over the rest
+>So you are siding with America? REEE TRAITOR
+>No, wait NATO started the war and i am not sending weapons
+>So you are siding with Russia, huh....
+>Rinse and repeat
+--- 14926622
+>>14926543
+He's trying to get off the sinking American ship without pissing them off badly enough he gets couped or sanctioned, and doesn't want to piss off China or Russia either by being too pro-burger (what with BRICS and all). Neutrality is the smart option here, Brazil gains nothing from either side of this war.
+--- 14926633
+Even if they worked for the CIA occasionally, it does not mean the CIA is behind everything
+Terrorist groups are unreliable and do stupid shit, just look at what happened to the groups the US backed in the Middle East
+--- 14926640
+>>14926633
+meant for >>14922088
+--- 14927936
+>>14921541
+
+this guy was such a fucking loser lmao
+--- 14927950
+>>14921541
+
+>wear some homemade costume 
+>go out on a balcony to scream about muh samurai spirit thinking it'll cause a military coup
+>soldiers boo and laugh at you 
+>helicopters drown you out
+>get embarrassed and kill yourself

his/14921556.txt

@@ -32,3 +32,75 @@ In any case, I'd be happy to talk comparitive religion and religious history, bu
 --- 14923680
 >>14921556 (OP)
 How many Catholic bishops "kissed" Emperor Constantine's ass? How many "christian" TV ministers are millionaires?
+--- 14923707
+>>14921556 (OP)
+>A nation baptized into Christ can’t have an apostolic Bishop pastoring a world leader given power and authority by God
+
+Prots
+--- 14923710
+>>14921556 (OP)
+Wolves in sheeps clothing, modern Pharisees who turn Gods house into a den of theives.
+--- 14924063
+>>14923680
+It's Saint Constantine.
+--- 14924085
+>>14924063
+I go to Pastor Jim's Bible Church. You know who founded it? Pastor Jim, a guy I know and trust. He was a varsity linebacker, I trust him with my life. Now who founded the Catholic church? Emperor Constantine? Guy must think pretty highly of himself to call himself emperor. Bet he couldnt even get on the soccer team. Know who my emperor is? JESUS CHRIST.
+--- 14924097
+>>14921719
+Not him but Jesus didn't exist. He didn't write anything down. Nobody who met him wrote anything down. He's a character from a dubious story about a magic Jew from half a century later. So even if it was based on a real Jew we know nothing about him.
+--- 14924451
+>>14921556 (OP)
+The KGB church doesn't, the Catacomb Church does.
+--- 14924481
+Is it time?
+--- 14924513
+>>14924481
+>We wuz Old Testament and shit 
+If I was a Jew I think I'd genuinely chimp out at the sight of all these descendants of pagan Indo-Europeans claiming that they are "the REAL Biblical Hebrews!" kek. Imagine telling David back in 1000 BC that a bunch of pasty niggas from that mysterious northern continent would be trying to claim the legacy of your temple and Yahweh cult as their own.
+--- 14924650
+>>14921556 (OP)
+LOOK AT THE TOP OF HIS HEAD
+--- 14926305
+>>14924481
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_reform_of_Peter_the_Great
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Sergius_of_Moscow
+https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE
+--- 14927007
+>>14921556 (OP)
+>Christians
+You're not talking about Christians. But you call them Christians for some dumb reason.
+--- 14927840
+>>14924513
+>Imagine telling David back in 1000 BC that a bunch of pasty niggas from that mysterious northern continent would be trying to claim the legacy of your temple and Yahweh cult as their own.
+You mean Ashkenazi Jews?
+--- 14927856
+>>14921556 (OP)
+Objectively not true. Pic related is the original church. Orthodox and Catholics have nothing to do with it. Some protestants do tho.
+--- 14927873
+>>14927856
+Christian soldiers are literally in the Bible
+--- 14927880
+>>14927873
+Yes a soldier could convert to become a Christian. But a Christian could not become a soldier. Roman soldiers could not just quit. You can today tho. But even the soldiers that became Christians were told to stop doing any violence. They would just pray on the battlefield. This is attested to by a Roman emperor as well.
+--- 14927909
+>>14927880
+>But even the soldiers that became Christians were told to stop doing any violence. They would just pray on the battlefield.
+Not in the Bible. Anyway, Hippolytus of was in good standing with the Roman Church and held the office of presbyter. He at one point schismed to establish his own bishop, and became the world’s first antipope, but he and the church reconciled before his death. This is on Wikipedia. He wasn’t a baptist
+--- 14927921
+>>14927909
+>Not in the Bible
+I literally just showed you Luke 3:14 where it says soldiers who converted did violence no more. The Catholic and Orthodox churches didn't come into existence until Rome created the institution in the 4th century. Hippolytus died long before they were established.
+--- 14927970
+>>14927921
+>I literally just showed you Luke 3:14 where it says soldiers who converted did violence no more
+That was John’s advice to them. Cornelius (Acts 10) didn’t seem to be of that philosophy. At least it doesn’t describe him leaving his job. The early Church did not have a uniform view on the issue of military service.
+>The Catholic and Orthodox churches didn't come into existence until Rome created the institution in the 4th century
+>Hippolytus died long before they were established.
+And yet he was still a poor, studied under Irenaeus, believed in apostolic succession… not a Baptist
+--- 14927975
+>>14927970
+Still a pope*
+And I meant to say
+>The Catholic and Orthodox churches didn't come into existence until Rome created the institution in the 4th century
+You haven’t provided any evidence of this apart from a pacifist view.

his/14921578.txt

@@ -4,11 +4,6 @@
 
 >5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me
 Catholic bros I don't feel so good, I thought the pope said it was ok to bow down to graven images. Should I just stop reading my Bible and just let the church tell me how to think?
---- 14921635
-The bible is always right
-Except when it disagrees with the pope, then it's wrong
-The pope is always right
-Except when he disagrees with me, then he's wrong
 --- 14921711
 >>14921578 (OP)
 So you have a problem with it being a statue of Mary.
@@ -105,3 +100,26 @@ That's only for the Jew.
 >people still arguing over a 3000 years old desert religion
 
 When will it end?
+--- 14923739
+Imagine wanting to live like a desertnigger and fearing statues.
+--- 14924540
+>>14921578 (OP)
+The prohibition is against carved idols and objects of image worship, not against representations of any kind including of Christ and His mother. Otherwise, we would object to all statues, impressions, portraits, and photographs. Yet you only care to attack Catholics.
+
+>Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.
+--- 14924613
+>>14924540
+Thats exactly what the Protestcuck commandment is: a ban on any statuary. They want to live like semitic savages.
+--- 14924704
+>>14924613
+Where is the biblical justification for worshipping Saint Nonceus' shriveled up mummified finger or penis as Catholics are so fond of?
+--- 14925804
+>>14924540
+>Otherwise, we would object to all statues, impressions, portraits, and photographs.
+Yes
+--- 14927313
+>>14924704
+Do you know I can trash on both traditions, christcel?
+--- 14927415
+>>14921578 (OP)
+Do you have any idea how many pagan matriarchal societies they had to convert?

his/14921591.txt

@@ -59,3 +59,168 @@ Maybe the rules changed? Everyone I know (who was vaxxed) even had to be put in
 --- 14923642
 >>14921591 (OP)
 People lack nuance about evertyhing.
+--- 14923853
+Anyone else think nuance is missing from discussion about European colonialism?
+
+Everyone always lines up either for or against Europe, but as I see it, the Europeans deserve both praise and condemnation.
+
+Their rule in Subsaharan Africa wasn't remotely as bad as is often made out: Subsaharan Africa before European rule really was a dreadfully backward, awful place run by cannibals and slavers of the worst sort. Europeans built...well, virtually all cities in black Africa, which were of benefit to the continent.
+--- 14923915
+>>14921591 (OP)
+Japan was an evil pagan country but after being defeated in WW2 they copied America and became civilized. The culture is now basically a version of 1960s America
+--- 14923918
+>>14923486
+Paganism.
+--- 14923920
+>>14923512
+Buddhism is paganism. Gold idols
+--- 14924346
+>>14922975
+Funny, I feel the exact same way about anti-weebs to the point that I loathe them no matter their political affiliation. 
+It reeks so heavily of americans so-called cosmopolitans who can't deal with a people who aren't like them in character being well-liked for their own peculiarities. 
+Whenever I hear people seethe about them I just mentally replace Japan with European homogeneous nations and find it's the exact same anti-white attitude underlying it.
+--- 14924735
+>>14923920
+That's not what an idol is or what the fat gold guy is
+--- 14925019
+>>14921591 (OP)
+>Everyone always lines up either for or against (thing), but as I see it, the (thing) deserve both praise and condemnation
+
+Yes, this is generally the case in history and geopolitics
+--- 14925060
+>>14923491
+Don’t be embarrassed, some of them are hot.
+--- 14925067
+>>14924346
+They are both annoying as fuck and have no idea what they’re talking about 95% of the time. Imagine a political argument about America by two Southeast Asians and it’s like
+>American society is so fucked up. 95% are morbidly obese and 1 in 3 Americans will die in a mass shooting. Source: Memes
+>Noo, Americans would never use guns to kill innocent people just the bad guys. Source: GI Joe the animated series
+
+That what it’s like for the 1% of Japanese people who make the mistake of venturing onto western internet
+--- 14925069
+>>14923853
+This unironically for both Japan and Europe.
+--- 14925113
+>>14924346
+>Whenever I hear people seethe about them I just mentally replace Japan with European homogeneous nations and find it's the exact same anti-white attitude underlying it.
+How can you say this and also simp and apologize for the Japanese who routinely abused and murdered white prisoners of war from those same homogeneous nations you're talking about? 
+They also raped Dutch women after the East Indies came under their control. 
+Sympathy for Germany is a no-brainer because they were at least European, but the japs were a barbaric, inhumane, alien race that went on an incel-esque rampage partially motivated by resentment because the racist west considered them inferior.
+Like a lot of pro-jap people you only like them because you hate America, which at the time may I remind you was a lily white, mostly Nordic nation fully justified in swatting these bloodthirsty orientals after being attacked by them unprovoked.
+--- 14925333
+>>14925113
+>Like a lot of pro-jap people you only like them because you hate America
+No, I like them because of their modern day culture.
+Same reason you hate them and want them destroyed just like you want Europeans destroyed. 
+It's very transparent.
+--- 14925344
+>>14922975
+Japan is the last beautiful country left on Earth not overrun with immigrants.
+--- 14925346
+>>14923442
+its worked well enough in india. Despite the massive historical illiteracy. India is a place as odd as europe though
+--- 14925365
+>>14925113
+By that measure we could easily justify hatred against Americans too considering the rapes your black soldiers did against Europeans during WW2 or your private military contractors DynCorp's history of trafficking in child sex slaves in the Balkans.
+--- 14925412
+>>14923442
+It currently works fine in Taiwan
+--- 14925537
+>>14925333
+What is there to like about modern Japanese culture? Define modern Japanese culture.
+--- 14925584
+>>14925537
+The fact that I can visit and remember what my part of Europe was like roughly 25 years ago before the migration horde for one. With barely any theft or violence, clean streets, unique homegrown take on imports, their own celebrations, their own type of nature, their own type of art both low and high, a working culture that isn't just about cheating the state out of money, sensible exclusion of foreigners from internal affairs and economy.
+Frankly what isn't to like about Japan if you're not an american anti-nativist who worships DEI-style fake diversity?
+--- 14925788
+>>14925584
+Barely any of what you're talking about is unique to Japan though, being singularly focused on your own culture, having a strict immigration policy and tough-on-crime policing is characteristic of much, if not most of the world.
+
+Maybe you really are genuinely fond of particular aspects of Japanese culture, but it's curious that you didn't mention any actual specific things peculiar to Japan that you like (specific festivals, customs and traditions, costume, historic sites, foods even), just alluded to the fact that they have them. You make it sound like you just like them for being idealised chuds or whatever.
+--- 14925846
+>>14925788
+Not that anon but I agree with what he says.
+
+Japan is basically what the West was and what I want it to be, that's all there is to it. If the west was stuck in some 1950s time bubble I wouldn't give a shit about Japan.
+
+You say "homogeneously following their own culture" is characteristic of most of the world, and yes that may be true, and yes it may be enjoyable if I was from that culture. If I was a Bedouin then driving my camel through the desert and eating curry off a rug on the floor in my tent might be my ideal society, but I'm not so it isn't. I just want to be able to walk down a clean paved street, from a comfy affordable house with nice architecture, to my stable safe job I don't have to worry is going to be outsourced to some sweatshop in the third world, and I want all of this to happen without getting stabbed by urban joggers, potentially lose my job over liking a sexist tweet, or dealing with crumbling ill-maintained infrastructure.
+
+Alas, I know you don't actually care why people like the idea of Japan, you're either a seething Chinese/Korean who doesn't want anyone to like Japan specifically OR you're a self hating westerner who doesn't want anyone criticizing the carnival you have created in the place western civilization once stood, so this reply is entirely pointless.
+--- 14925875
+>>14925788
+>Barely any of what you're talking about is unique to Japan though
+That's where you're wrong. Almost all of it is a unique cultural output of theirs just like it is in Europe. You cannot replace a people and expect the same culture to keep existing, it doesn't happen.
+>being singularly focused on your own culture
+They are if anything incredibly open and interested in other cultures, which they then adapt for their own sensibilities. 
+Frankly the polar opposite to Americans who want to turn everywhere into a sad ersatz copy of urban America.
+>Maybe you really are genuinely fond of particular aspects of Japanese culture, but it's curious that you didn't mention any actual specific things peculiar to Japan that you like
+Mainly because I don't feel like discussing it with someone I have pegged as anti-nativist and a bad sort. 
+I could wax on about a bunch of geeky shit from 2ch niche geek hobbies to modern art installations, cool new ukiyo-e or hanami celebrations or how I appreciate the distinction between honne and tatemae because by delineating it they inadvertently separate the real you and the corporate fakery but fact is I don't want to go too in-depth with someone I have pegged as a hostile who'd just use it to ruin those things for those who enjoy them.
+--- 14925904
+>>14925875
+how the fuck do you access japanese chans without a vpn
+--- 14925941
+>>14925904
+Simple, I have a VPN.
+--- 14926005
+It’s funny because South Korean culture is just a dollar store version of Japanese culture.
+--- 14926042
+>>14925941
+eeeeeeeeeeeeeh sasuga anon-tan
+--- 14926046
+>>14925846
+>Japan is basically what the West was
+
+Very insulting, and ignorant. To both the West, and Japan.
+--- 14926061
+>>14925875
+>I don't want to go too in-depth with someone I have pegged as a hostile who'd just use it to ruin those things for those who enjoy them.
+
+Imagine being this paranoid and delusional. Point taken, you do seem to have a sincere interest in Japanese culture. Now I can ungraciously use it to... make fun of you for being a massive weeb.
+
+>how I appreciate the distinction between honne and tatemae
+
+El. Oh. El.
+--- 14926110
+>>14926046
+Are you seriously trying to claim that Japan post Meiji and again post-ww2 didn't deliberately and successfully westernize it's culture?
+--- 14926140
+>>14926110
+It did, but Japanese culture was and is still very different. If you pulled a Chinaman or a Kinh from the 18th century out of their time and into the modern-day version of their countries, they'd be amazed at how Westernised everything is and they'd be right to be, but that doesn't make these countries now "basically like the West used to be" or whatever.
+--- 14926224
+>>14926140
+Which would you say Japan is closer to, Western civilization or 1850 Japan?
+--- 14926234
+>bro this is EXACTLY like 1950s europe
+weebs are fucking deranged
+--- 14926347
+>>14926224
+Which would you say [75%+ countries on Earth] are closer to, Western civilization, or 1850 [country name]?
+
+What does the Industrial Revolution have particularly to do with Japan?
+--- 14926356
+>>14926224
+Closer how? How would you even quantify something like that?
+
+Obviously the economy is bigger, and they use Western construction materials so they live in concrete cuckcages now instead of ones made of wood. They have televisions. They wear Westoid-style suits. So do a lot of other people.
+--- 14927716
+>>14926356
+>>14926347
+You're literally admitting Japan has all the Western trappings, yet are simultaneously claiming they're not Western.
+If going to a flower festival in a yukata once a year means they're not western then equally Scotsmen wearing kilts for weddings means they're not western.
+--- 14927740
+>>14925365
+>By that measure we could easily justify hatred against Americans too considering the rapes your black soldiers did against Europeans during WW2
+No. It's not even comparable to the rape fest that the Japanese had going on. The American military was also segregated at the time, blacks were a tiny portion of it, and they weren't allowed in combat roles aside from some rare exceptions. You can't even compare the conduct of the two nations during WW2, it's ridiculous. Nothing the Americans did even comes close to the brutality displayed by the Japanese.
+>our private military contractors DynCorp's history of trafficking in child sex slaves in the Balkans
+Never heard of that. If true and you're also from the Balkans then you're justified in hating America, but regardless that still wouldn't give you a free pass to sympathize with the Japanese during WW2.
+--- 14927878
+>>14927716
+>Japan is Western because they Westernized and have Western institutions 
+>But the rest of Asia isn't even though they are Westernized too and follow Western institutions
+That's it. I've seen tardbrained weebs say Japan is the epitome of a Westernised non-Western nation while simultaneously crapping on Korea and China because their hard on for Japan even though they're as Westernized as Japan is
+--- 14927884
+>>14927716
+>You're literally admitting Japan has all the Western trappings, yet are simultaneously claiming they're not Western.
+Well, yea. Whoever thinks that Japan is what the West ( Europe/US ) just because can jump off a ledge
+I'm not OP and this was my response >>14927878

his/14921630.txt

@@ -42,3 +42,41 @@ It do be like this
 --- 14923605
 >>14922683
 Ethnicity is a spook, Germans are Germano-Celto-Slavic rapebabies.
+--- 14924554
+>>14922212
+Corsicans are genetically and culturally Italian. They've already done studies on this.
+--- 14924589
+>>14923605
+It can be rather easily determined when someone is definitely not part of an ethnicity when they plot miles away from everyone else considered part of it, Corsica is part of the Italian cluster and not close to France
+--- 14926143
+>>14922683
+Shitalian identiy is the same. What do Corsicans have to do with Tyroleans and Sicilians?
+Italy came into existence in the 19th century, and has been brown, pathetic, poor and shit ugly ever since.
+--- 14926231
+>>14924554
+And Bonaparte is a Lombard name
+Only counter French have is their expansive national bubble
+--- 14926355
+>>14926231
+No, it isn’t, it’s Ligurian, anyway you can see his familytree on geneanet, mostly Corsican and Ligurian
+--- 14926392
+>>14922584
+Hepatitis A, actually
+--- 14926404
+>>14921630 (OP)
+Modern Macedonians are an offshoot of Bulgarians who had yet to appear from the steppe during the reign of Alexander 
+
+While Corsica was indeed of an Italian disposition when it was first annexed by France and Napoleon was indeed something of a Corsican nationalist during his youth, he ended up larping as a Frenchman either out of personal taste, the chance for political power, or both. Funnily enough, this put him at odds with his former idol - Paoli - who led a rebellion against the French after the initial annexation and also headed a briefly independent Corsican Kingdom which was a protectorate of Britain during the French Revolutionary Wars for a time. 
+>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasquale_Paoli
+>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Corsican_Kingdom
+
+Austrians were indeed a type of German which is why they initially headed the German Confederation before the Austro-Prussian War. Hitler still strongly identified with being German and might of actually been of Bavarian descent rather than Austrian descent with the two regions neighboring one another.
+--- 14926838
+>>14926355
+Julius Norwich said so, so I trust him
+--- 14926889
+>>14926404
+Allegedly, Paoli was the gay lover of Napoleon's father.
+--- 14928051
+>>14922903
+Only prussians had that, and those teritorries are mostly poland now

his/14921646.txt

@@ -45,3 +45,32 @@ jeez i wonder why! Because America is the only nation where you dont get taxed w
 --- 14923602
 >>14923156
 Uganda cult (called revival of the ten commandments or something)
+--- 14923906
+>>14921646 (OP)
+If you can't defeat them, join them. Satan vasically infiltrates and creates apostate counterfeits since he can't get Islam to be popular.
+--- 14923909
+>>14923100
+This
+--- 14924716
+>>14921752
+>>14921743
+a lot of foundational americans were schizo religious people from europe. could explain it
+
+like you existed in europe anytime in the last 400 years, were a cult (read: minority religious sect) you could just move a couple hundred people to america and a few generations later an entire nation starts trusting the plan WWG1WGA
+--- 14925097
+>>14921646 (OP)
+Wait til you hear about all the wacky Taoist-Buddhist sects in China.
+--- 14925160
+>>14921646 (OP)
+>compared to other religions
+Top kek.
+Just because you haven't heard of the many, MANY sects in islam, buddhism, taoism, hinduism, etc doesn't mean they don't exist.
+--- 14925625
+>>14921646 (OP)
+because the bible and the teaching of christianity are not very clear so people interpret it in different ways.
+--- 14927610
+>>14921743
+we inherited the schizos from europe
+--- 14927639
+>>14921743
+Yeah that’s what makes them based. Helps water the tree of liberty

his/14921717.txt

@@ -72,3 +72,69 @@ Transformations of Romanness: Early Medieval Regions and Identities
 Infact during the century Flavius Paulus was alive, Visigothic law acknowledged the existence of Romans and non-romans within its borders. As well as manuscripts identifying roman individuals and villages.
 
 The Roman identity's erosion was a slow burn that varied from place to place and is interesting and deep topic. Read about it!
+--- 14924254
+>>14921717 (OP)
+Brow beaten by the Franks very often, and they were rather mocked by Gregory of Tours for their extreme instability and inability to form a dynasty
+>>14921732
+That would be the Lex Burgundionum
+>>14923250
+There were Roman peoples still existing as a real people and community into the 7th century. Only in the 8th do we see their disappearance. As the other poster said it was a recognized distinction in Iberia, as was it in Francia as well.
+--- 14925578
+It was kino
+--- 14925592
+>>14922437
+Fuck off ChatGPT shill.
+--- 14925599
+>>14921717 (OP)
+They were to ahead to their time politically, a democratic monarchy was the less useful political model at dark ages, you need strong authoritarian leaders for that kind of times, not cucks raped by lobbies
+--- 14925609
+>>14923250
+It's kinda possible, but more like some asturian chief, the Jimena dinsty that ruled Spain and Portugal from X to XIII century was created by a basque warlord from Navarra
+--- 14925612
+>>14921732
+The Codex Hermogenianus predates the Lex Romana Visigothorum by over 200 years. The Codex Gregorianus is even easier, dating to the early second century, but it only had a compilation of imperial constitutions (laws), and not of jurisprudence in annex like the latter works.
+--- 14925620
+>>14921717 (OP)
+Their architecture was kino
+--- 14925634
+>>14925620
+Looks like a weird mosque-church hybrid you'd find somewhere in the depths of Anatolia honestly.
+--- 14925635
+>>14923222
+Both were great, but their period was too unstable and geographically close to oriental expansionism
+--- 14925642
+>>14925634
+The horseshoe arch was created in Western europe tho
+--- 14925647
+>>14923260
+>At his time and place in history, romans and goths still lived among eachother with this Kingdom.
+By the time islam invaded Spain there were no differences between goths and iberians, the population was too mixed
+--- 14925655
+>>14925642
+I know. But aesthetic recognition(plus the color patterns)kind of averrides that knowledge for some reason. It' just a stupid cultural association. I know full well the horseshoe arch is apart of Iberian romanesque.
+Speaking of which Visigothic Romelarp was pretty funny.
+--- 14925666
+>>14925647
+I'd disagree. The differences were very tiny at that point. But you can tell who was who by the names. I doubt there were many peasants in Tarraco or Baetica called Wamba or Alberic.
+--- 14925667
+>>14925655
+Actually it dates to roman occupation, several buildings and stelae from roman spain era show it
+--- 14925676
+>>14925642
+Imo, what makes it look like a mosque is more the geometrical patterns on the walls rather than the arches. And the lack of statues typical of muslim aniconism.
+--- 14926540
+bump
+--- 14927810
+>>14921770
+The first Catalan separatist.
+--- 14927827
+>>14921732
+>was your typical example of a just and smart king who isn't interested in war
+>got killed by Clovis
+Le virgin vs le chad, so much historical precedent it’s uncanny
+--- 14928137
+>>14921717 (OP)
+they are the only reason why some Iberians look white
+--- 14928150
+>>14928137
+Mongolian*

his/14921849.txt

@@ -111,3 +111,54 @@ Also, Romanians do value the Byzantine contribution to their culture, as seen in
 Main reason is British influence and intellectuals of independent Greece liked larping as pagans rather than what their people still called themselves, Rhomaioi
 --- 14923412
 Because the ultimate fate of the byzantine system is slavery under a turkic sultan, while the medieval ius commune western system created multiple global superpowers in succession.
+--- 14923879
+>>14921849 (OP)
+>progenitor state to Romanians
+>barely touches Romania
+hmm
+--- 14923881
+>>14923879
+see >>14923312
+--- 14923884
+>>14921849 (OP)
+declining theocratic despocy. nothing to be proud of.
+--- 14924854
+>>14923884
+Decline/stagnation is a meme.
+--- 14925535
+>>14923881
+t. György
+--- 14925553
+>>14923312
+It is larp but Romanians come from Latinized Dacians and roman colonists.
+--- 14925563
+>>14925553
+>latinized dacians
+are nigerians that speak the english language also english
+do nigerians get to claim anglo history 
+
+genuinely i can't see why they wouldn't be able too if romanians are allowed to larp as roman
+--- 14925590
+>>14925563
+Okay so are Romanians latinized Dacians from north of the Danube or latinized Thracians from south of the Danube?
+--- 14925669
+>>14925590
+>we wuz latinized n shiet
+they latinized themselves in the 18th century
+before that there was notihng latin or roman about these people other than some mutt pidgin language that wasn't even official in any capacity so there are no medieval texts of it 
+romanians have no medieval history other than being vassals of bulgaria, wtf is this dacian roman larp even come from
+--- 14925966
+>>14925563
+by this logic most major political figures during the empire period were not roman
+--- 14926078
+>>14921865
+https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Protochronism
+--- 14926169
+>>14925563
+You should spread this thought around on Nairaland.
+--- 14926536
+>>14925669
+Are you retarded? The first texts in the Romanian language are from the 16th Century. And it is a pidgin language of what exactly?
+--- 14926685
+>>14925669
+languages don't spontaneously invent themselves in a century

his/14922056.txt

@@ -71,3 +71,113 @@ Jarvis, show abortion statistics enhance the Soviet era.
 ABORTION ENTAILS PREGNANCY; PREGNANCY ENTAILS FERTILITY.
 
 TURN ON YOUR BRAIN.
+--- 14923809
+>>14922056 (OP)
+That was from one of the athlete parades in the 1930s:
+
+https://youtu.be/X0LLlQH_Gpg [Embed]
+
+The Soviet Union loved its gymnastics (also remember the movie Circus?). Also a trope still used in Chinese domestic propaganda:
+
+https://youtu.be/KFy9xM11KaY [Embed]
+--- 14923839
+Also don't forget the human pyramids or whatever this is. Soviet classic. Also another blast from the past:
+
+https://youtu.be/bMQNywhLrtg [Embed]
+--- 14923850
+>>14922056 (OP)
+Under Stalin it was pseudo-fascist, prior and post not really
+--- 14923910
+>>14922056 (OP)
+The notion of "Red Fascism" was very widespread among the western european marxists, that were perpetually doubling down on the "True Communism Utopia" that basically every single communist country in existence failed to implement or betrayed.
+So yeah in some Marxist circles you can state that the USSR was a fascist country, nothing particularly thought provoking.
+--- 14924020
+>>14922082
+no
+it was russian fascism vs german nazism(national zionism)
+--- 14924028
+>>14923264
+It had a communist government with communist one-party state and enough authority to enact totalitarian communist policies and ability and will to erase any dissenting voices.
+
+How much more power do communists even need to achieve communism?
+--- 14924130
+>>14924028
+>How much more power do communists even need to achieve communism?
+Communism isn't possible until you take over the whole world. That's why it's called World Socialism. Fascism is like "we're gonna take over Italy, maybe a little piece of Africa." Hitler wanted some Lebensraum. That's like the Diet Coke version. That's why Dr. Evil wears the Mao suit.
+
+https://youtu.be/AnwgbH0TPbI [Embed]
+--- 14924175
+>>14922056 (OP)
+Both were totalitarian one-party states, with the ruler treated as a literal God, an effective propaganda machinery that glorified the government, large government oversight and control over the economy, and aggressive military expansionism so yeah there were very similar.
+
+If the Germans had won, the Cold War would have played out mostly the same.
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpvAdeAv8KI [Embed]
+--- 14925409
+>>14922082
+It was a fascist civil war
+--- 14925602
+>>14922093
+Abortion was outlawed, in the RSFSR anyways, during Stalin's time.
+--- 14926147
+>>14922056 (OP)
+No, tankie faggot, it was communist. That is what communism is. Sorry it doesn’t fit your imaginary socialist utopia
+--- 14926178
+>>14923273
+Fascism isn't feminist, when it comes to gender roles it's like Ancient Sparta, where both men and women should be strong, but they have their own functions in society all the same. Women should play sports, and know how to shoot a rifle even if their primary purpose is to make the next generation.
+--- 14926265
+>>14923514
+I don't see any men, everyone's segregated by gender which is gay
+--- 14926386
+>>14922056 (OP)
+>t. A. james Gregor
+--- 14926395
+>>14926147
+based retard
+--- 14926806
+OMG it has one party and isn't liberal therefore LITERALLY MUST BE FASCIST WOW 
+
+Funny how the actual business community can tell the difference between Fascism and Communism which are apparently just the same and they chose the former every time (no, sorry, big corporations going on about BLM and trannies isn't a counterargument)
+--- 14926828
+>>14923547
+Jarvis, does abortion causes motherhood or is it the opposite.
+--- 14926860
+>>14926806
+Based big business knows how to pick a winning team instead of commucuck loser incels. Picrel view from my pent house right now while (You) hoard HRT pills in your moms smell basement.
+
+Get REKT commusharts
+
+You will never have le revolution
+--- 14926927
+>>14926860
+Ruined with the elf ears.
+--- 14926981
+>>14926828
+
+
+CAPESLOP IS ROTTING YOUR MIND.
+--- 14927019
+>>14926927
+So hard to find brown/tan anime girls though, so I'll take it
+--- 14927053
+>>14922056 (OP)
+*a faggot state
+--- 14927406
+>>14927053
+Based
+--- 14928064
+>>14922069
+Fascism prety much just means totalitarian police state with draconic laws and a single party rule that imposes those laws under a dictator that has ultimate power, so yes soviet union was Fascist
+--- 14928068
+>>14922069
+Fascism is when the state is omniprestent, so yes, the USSR was turbofascist
+--- 14928074
+>>14926806
+lmao you realize that Wall Street literally funded the communist revolution in Russia, right? dumb commie
+--- 14928083
+>>14922056 (OP)
+Only differencs between ussr and nazis were by slight ideological differences, but not how they impozed them:
+>NAZIS
+Nationalistic socialist fascists
+>USSR
+Communist socialist fascists

his/14922333.txt

@@ -192,3 +192,47 @@ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avVTNV6-tnw [Embed]
 >>14923562 →
 >>14923562 →
 >>14923562 →
+--- 14924054
+Prayer
+--- 14925746
+Become perfect and renew your mind in Christ. Then you will be able to share the gospel. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
+--- 14925909
+>>14922359
+>Muh Jews
+Shut up!
+--- 14925928
+If someone isn't interested, then either they have already hardened their heart or God has yet to break their spirit and call them to Him. You should focus on someone who is already broken in spirit and who is therefore open to the Gospel.
+--- 14925932
+>>14923441
+Can't serve two masters, Paul.
+--- 14926724
+>>14922333 (OP)
+Western culture is engufed in christian assumptions. For many on the left, their entire belief system is based on christian morality, yet they're often atheists who despise the organised church and religion. They're secular christians.
+
+You just need to explain that the origin of modern social movements, the entire concept of 'progressivism', is based on christian assumptions and morality. Essentially, their whole worldview only makes sense if you also adopt the religoius aspects of christianity.
+
+Either you'll get more religious christians, or they'll stick with atheism and turn fascist.
+--- 14926773
+>>14922333 (OP)
+If they don't think they're are interested than that's either a polite "no" or it just leans that way. In either way you shouldn't be pushy.
+--- 14926821
+>>14925909
+Yeah, i wish you would shut up about your magic jew already
+--- 14926827
+>>14922333 (OP)
+You should post aI generated pictures of Ricky Gervais being sodomized in hell, that should work.
+--- 14926899
+>>14926724
+>it's a Christian admits they're the reason for Western decline post
+--- 14926970
+>>14922333 (OP)
+You should chant the name of the Lord out of pure joy. It is not your mission to convert people to this religion or that religion. You must remember who you are. You must realise that you and God are one, just like Jesus did.
+--- 14927009
+>>14922907
+lmao
+--- 14927086
+>>14922874
+T. Ricky poster
+--- 14927634
+>>14922333 (OP)
+You blackmail them

his/14922528.txt

@@ -17,3 +17,31 @@ I would take a physical artifact and claim it was used for something totally dif
 --- 14923534
 >>14922528 (OP)
 I will insert prophecies of things that have happened in recent history with uncannily precise details so as to convince people of Allah
+--- 14924230
+>>14922528 (OP)
+I would rename Rome to Reme and just have Romulus and Remus change places. Literally nobody could verify or falsify this, and linguists would break their skulls trying to find out why the hell everyone in the modern day calls it Rome, even through the Romans called it "Reme"
+--- 14924232
+>>14924230
+*the "Remans"
+--- 14924233
+>>14922528 (OP)
+Get rid of all the dumb Jewish lies and make them 100% truthful.
+--- 14924244
+>>14922528 (OP)
+I would add a kingdom named "Noweyr" and make historians go crazy because it doesnt exist. Until one guy finds out it actually means "nowhere"
+--- 14924445
+>>14924244
+Based troll
+--- 14924651
+https://news.slashdot.org/story/22/07/13/2037205/a-bored-chinese-housewife-spent-years-falsifying-russian-history-on-wikipedia
+--- 14924676
+>>14924651
+Unimaginably based.
+--- 14925639
+Make it documented by every single contemporary of Catherine the Great that she did bonk horses.
+--- 14927293
+>>14922528 (OP)
+test
+--- 14928032
+>>14924651
+so the Chinese really are trying to ruin the world

his/14922644.txt

@@ -53,3 +53,475 @@ Any secret organization is of the devil.
 --- 14923108
 >>14923035
 What secret organisation?
+--- 14923791
+>>14922644 (OP)
+I think their mission statement changes depending on who's looking.
+
+You never knew them.... 
+xD
+--- 14923814
+>>14923791
+As a note : I'm not sure how true that is.
+Came accross one Freemasonary site citing that they're Athiest, and that Jesus was a madman.
+Came accross another where they appeared to be feverant Christians.
+
+Who's to say? 
+For them to know, and us to wonder.
+Or
+They're so wishy-washy with their beliefs, that they stand for nothing in particular.
+--- 14923816
+>>14923814
+I think it's a church-but-not-a-church.
+--- 14923943
+>>14923814
+>Who's to say?
+Legit sites, probably.
+--- 14923970
+>>14922644 (OP)
+>>14922739
+Freemasons are liars and a cabal of retarded sadists who threaten me for eating cheddar jalapeno cheetos or playing battle brothers. How Masonry "actually works" is by violently enforcing their deeply held beliefs including for example, "peasants should be killed if they eat spicy food" or "violence whose sole purpose is the affirmation of hierarchies is good" or "the only reason anyone should be allowed to be attractive is to be a rape-slave of the rich and powerful" or "it's important that rich and powerful people should have the best and most desirable things to affirm their dominance and superiority, and the ability to do evil and get away with it is highly desirable, so therefore it's important that the rich and powerful be as evil as possible to affirm their dominance and superiority over their lessers" or "food is the most important thing for a human so it's very important that superiors have total control over the food intake of their inferiors, time, amount, quality, etc so that they can withhold or reduce the quality of food as a punishment, and that their inferiors feel insecure in their access to food, and fear starvation" or "human sacrifice is a good and important part of affirming dominance hierarchies and creating bonds within communities especially among the elite" or "lessers should live in fear of their superiors, even minor or unintentional infractions by a lesser towards their betters should be punished severely" or "it's important that undesirable and physically harmful labor continues to exist so that it can be used to punish and stifle those with the potential to succeed on their own merit" or "nobody should be allowed to succeed or acquire anything for themselves on their own merit, anything desirable should have to be granted by those in power over them, and nobody outside of existing elite networks should be granted anything desirable unless absolutely necessary". These are almost word for word quotes
+--- 14924010
+>>14923970
+is this a pasta?
+--- 14924053
+>>14923970
+>These are almost word for word quotes
+From whom? You?
+--- 14924061
+>>14924053
+Accusing me of your own misdeeds is one of the funnest and most disgusting things you people do. No, retard, I would not say these things about myself. These are things you say as an attempt to justify your harassment, abuse, violence etc against me. You are a disgusting retard.
+--- 14924064
+>>14924061
+That's not what i said. Learn to read.
+--- 14924069
+>>14924064
+Yes you did retard, you accused me of being the author of almost word for word quotes from you and your retarded cabal of disgusting sadists
+--- 14924071
+>>14924069
+>you accused me of being the author
+Yes. In the form of a question for want of any other source.
+Again, learn to read.
+--- 14924112
+>>14922739
+>The grounds used for these bans stand upon a false premise of how freemasonry works
+No, it's based on history of freemasonry actively trying to destroy catholics. 
+And any catholic priest who joins the freemasons excommunicate themselves by virtue of doing so.
+--- 14924143
+>>14923970
+this is interesting. So you were involved in freemasonry or knew a freemason? Because yeah they obviously never publicly state that but it aligns perfectly with what they are about (plus a few insight about food I wasn't aware of) according to whistleblowers.
+>>14922663
+That's obviously their stupid incoherent fronts. And I don't know about other churches/religions but you can't be a freemason/Catholic simply because if you join freemasonry at any level you're automatically excommunicated from the Catholic Church.
+--- 14924202
+>>14922703
+Wicca and Druidry were both heavily inspired by freemasonry. Also some lodges allow other holy books besides the Bible, I've seen the Vedas, Poetic Edda and even the Iliad used in ceremonies.
+--- 14924404
+>>14924112
+>No, it's based on history of freemasonry actively trying to destroy catholics.
+When?
+And the excommunication thing no longer exists in law.
+--- 14924410
+>>14924143
+>you can't be a freemason/Catholic
+Sure you can. There's no contradiction there. And even if that excommunication thing still happened, it wouldn't stop what you believe.
+--- 14924454
+>>14924410
+>what you believe
+Yeah uhm well no you can't just screech "I belong to the Church" if you have been kicked out, what you believe is totally irrelevant if you don't belong the Church maybe you're Christian but definitely not Catholic.
+--- 14924467
+>>14924404
+https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus.html
+--- 14924582
+>>14924454
+Even if they kick you out, which they won't, that doesn't change your religious beliefs. They just won't make any more money off you, so more fool them.
+--- 14924644
+>>14924582
+prot detected
+--- 14924647
+>>14924644
+>No refutation
+--- 14924697
+>>14924404
+>And the excommunication thing no longer exists in law.
+Wrong. It explicitly says you're in a state of grave sin and not to partake in communion and the CDF clarified that no change in the penalty has been made.
+Latae sententiae.
+--- 14924700
+>>14923031
+How the fuck are you going to say Von List wasn't a pagan?
+--- 14924712
+>>14924697
+>Wrong
+Show me in the current Code of Canon Law then.
+It was retarded that it was ever included in the first place.
+--- 14924720
+>>14922663
+>faith is never an issue. 
+>The only prerequisite is that you are not atheist or agnostic.
+What?
+--- 14924736
+>>14924700
+Missed that one.
+--- 14924773
+>>14924712
+https://www.papalencyclicals.net/clem12/c12inemengl.htm
+https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_lt.html
+https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html
+Along with Can 2335 of the 1917 Canon Law and Can 1374 of the 1983 Canon Law.
+--- 14924784
+>>14924773
+Still doesn't mention Freemasonry. Why would you want it to anyway?
+--- 14924799
+>>14924784
+>doesn't mention it
+>has an explicit papal bull, a canon law and a clarification of canon law all stating it's explicitly banned
+How about you stop lying and abusing the truth.
+--- 14924811
+>>14924799
+If that were the case, why is it specifically no longer mentioned in Canon Law, and you had to try and obfuscate by posting both an older version and a lesser authority?
+Again, why do you want it there?
+--- 14924822
+>>14924811
+>If that were the case, why is it specifically no longer mentioned in Canon Law
+This is specifically mentioned in the CDF sources linked you flagrant dishonest faggot.
+>It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code. 
+>This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories. 
+>Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. 
+>It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 
+>In an audience granted to the undersigned 
+>Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.
+>Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.
+>Joseph Card. RATZINGER
+>Prefect
+>+ Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
+>Titular Archbishop of Lorium
+>Secretary
+--- 14924824
+>>14924811
+>Again, why do you want it there?
+Better question, for someone who is ostensibly male why do you not care about the truth and lie pointlessly?
+--- 14924838
+>>14922690
+Good. No one wants to be the brother of some basement-dwelling future mass shooter incel.
+--- 14924839
+>>14924822
+>This is specifically mentioned in the CDF
+But not in Canon Law.
+
+>>14924824
+>Needing to dodge
+I just don't like seeing people wronged for no reason.
+--- 14924845
+>>14924839
+>But not in Canon Law.
+Specifically a declaration in response to questions about Canon Law undersigned by both the current and future pope. 
+It's weird how you freemasons have no aversions to outright lying and have no care for the Truth.
+--- 14924853
+>>14924845
+Look at the wording. It contradicts itself, given that the principles are in fact not irreconcilable with the Church. 
+A couple of Cardinals can't change the stars just by their wants alone.
+--- 14924870
+Reminder that Freemasons are guilty of having setup spy networks against French christians and nationalists sending a lot of good men to their deaths, early retirement, unfavorable colonial positions and blocked their careers from going further in favor of Liberals and non-French during the Affair of the Cards and the Panama scandal.
+--- 14924878
+>>14924853
+>given that the principles are in fact not irreconcilable with the Church.
+It outright states that they are.
+And anyone who knows anything about you know you practice indifferentism and the few rites that are "sectarian" are viewed very unfavourably.
+>A couple of Cardinals
+Numerous Popes and despite your attempts Freemason liars can no more scrub truth from the net than you can the world.
+--- 14924888
+>>14924878
+>It outright states that they are.
+If they outright state that 1+1=3, would that make it true?
+>practice indifferentism 
+Always been incorrect.
+>the few rites that are "sectarian" are viewed very unfavourably.
+Lol, that's a new accusation. Especially funny given how all new appendant degrees are Christian.
+>Numerous Popes 
+For the CDF at that time?
+--- 14924910
+>>14924888
+>If they outright state
+If they're speaking on decisions of doctrine within their authority you mean.
+>Always been incorrect.
+Bullshit. It takes all of five minutes to go to a freemason hangout and see you the vast majority of your rites being proud of how they have fraternity across religious lines. 
+>Lol, that's a new accusation.
+Not very considering you can open up any given freemason board and see almost all of them seethe about any Rite that explicitly denies membership to non-trinitarians.
+>For the CDF at that time?
+I realize you're either illiterate or just outright dishonest and evil so i'll just reiterate this: 
+>Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.
+--- 14924942
+>>14924910
+>If they're speaking on decisions of doctrine within their authority you mean.
+Glad we can agree there, then.
+>It takes all of five minutes to go to a freemason hangout
+Maybe you should do that then? And they might have a dictionary there for you to look up the definition of "indifferentism"
+>and see almost all of them seethe about any Rite that explicitly denies membership to non-trinitarians
+Pics? Weird that all those ones are the most popular then, huh?
+>approved and ordered the publication
+So yes, 1+1=3 if the right people say it.
+--- 14924949
+>>14924942
+So in short "No the popes don't have authority to say this and clarify it's still against the canon law!" and "No that's totally not what's happening [don't actually go and look yourself and find out it's very obviously true though]".
+I think we're done here. You're a real dishonest one and your word ain't worth shit.
+--- 14924955
+>>14924949
+They do have such authority to make rules. But it's funny that your brainwashing sees no problem in them needing to lie to justify it.
+>[don't actually go and look yourself 
+Literal opposite of what I've said the whole time.
+Why are lies all you have?
+--- 14924976
+>>14924955
+>They do have such authority to make rules.
+Good. Then you agree that their clarification by the Pope shortly after the Canon law was written means Catholics are still banned from being Freemasons.
+>sees no problem in them needing to lie to justify it.
+I would if I actually considered it a lie, but a cursory glance at modern day Freemasonry tells anyone with eyes it isn't. 
+Feel free to exclude Rites that hold to a mere belief in a "supreme being" instead of the trinity of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. That is if you actually think it isn't putting other religions on an even keel. 
+>Why are lies all you have?
+That's rich.
+--- 14925004
+>>14924976
+>Catholics are still banned from being Freemasons.
+Debatable. Especially given all the synods which have disagreed. Seems like they would know.
+>but a cursory glance
+Maybe you need to do more than that, if you're so easily fooled at a first look?
+>Feel free to exclude Rites
+Why?
+>That is if you actually think it isn't putting other religions on an even keel. 
+No more than any school, road, house, or nature itself.
+>That's rich.
+How so? I've always recommended going to learn things first hand instead of blindly accepting political propaganda.
+--- 14925010
+>>14922644 (OP)
+Red pills are usually schizophrenia extracted from the manure of the internet, fundie Christian websites.
+--- 14925013
+>>14922644 (OP)
+The Freemasons operate by having all the good r normal members being left alone and being in the lower-middle ranks and not being drawn into the inner circle where they do all the things Freemasons are accused of there. Its a simple structure and it works because there is a heavy compartmentalization of their ranks. This same reason is why accusing every Freemason as being a kiddie diddler goes nowhere.
+--- 14925066
+>>14925010
+Adding to this, watch some YouTube testiclemonials, you Will invariably wake Up to the judeochristian problem. Essentially, they become retarded compulsive liars with that book. Case in point, testimonials of converts, if you know a slight but about the religion where they quit to convert to judaism with jesus you'll be amazed, the witches cauldron (women symbology) becomes the lords tabernacle (a tabernacle is a tent) in schizo líes of conversión from brujería.
+--- 14925077
+>>14925004
+>Especially given all the synods which have disagreed.
+Cite one. 
+>Seems like they would know.
+Funny. "The body specifically responsible for promulgating and defending Roman Catholic doctrine signed off by the Pope? No clearly they have less say than regional bishops."
+>Why?
+To prove you are not in fact an inter-religious fraternity.
+>No more than any school, road, house, or nature itself.
+Reminds me of all the schools, roads, houses and how nature exactly engages in secret oaths, secret rituals, systems of morality and symbols that allude to a generic God that is not explicitly Jesus Christ. 
+>How so? 
+Anyone can read your contradictory claims about Catholics canon law ITT.
+--- 14925094
+All this talk about Rome you guys ought to keep up with the what the Italian people are doing today. It’s not all the same right. Or maybe you like criminals I don’t know
+--- 14925096
+>>14925077
+>No clearly they have less say
+Not what I said.
+>To prove you are not in fact an inter-religious fraternity.
+It's not inter-religious. It's just that men of any religion can join for the most part. It's no different to being able to walk down the same street as a Mohammadan. Science doesn't care what your religion is.
+>engages in secret oaths, secret rituals, systems of morality and symbols that allude to a generic God that is not explicitly Jesus Christ. 
+What is this tangent meant to be in relation to?
+>Anyone can read your contradictory claims about Catholics canon law ITT.
+Or you could just read the Code of Canon Law and see how it went from mentioning Freemasonry to no longer mentioning it. A good step forward in righting some of their wrongs, really.
+--- 14925099
+Reminder that Freemasons were caught engaging in mass surveillance against citizens who were not anti-clerical socialists going back to 1906.
+--- 14925120
+>>14925096
+>that pic
+Meanwhile the Pope and the CDF:
+>It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 
+Read: They aren't allowed that authority.
+>It's not inter-religious. It's just that men of any religion can join for the most part. 
+Uh-huh. 
+>and see how it went from mentioning Freemasonry to no longer mentioning it.
+While the people who decide Canon Law being explicit that it's been widened to include more groups and that you are still under the strictest ban. Which you are being deliberately evasive around.
+--- 14925133
+>>14925120
+>Meanwhile
+Hey, you asked. It's not like they were just some random plebs. But they clearly did more investigation than the Pope and the CDF. No shame in that.
+>Uh-huh. 
+Yes. What's the problem? You know any religion can post on here too, right?
+>it's been widened to include more groups
+In such a way as to exclude Masonry. It's a nice thing. Why try to be a dick about it? How does that advance your cause?
+--- 14925153
+Why would anyone want to be one?
+It's just a bunch of mystery meat mutts and gerontocratics who get upset when you don't want to donate to foreign aid. (the big exception to the no-politics clause since it involves a lot of untraceable money)
+When they're not Grand Orient criminals.
+--- 14925168
+>>14925133
+>But they clearly did more investigation than the Pope and the CDF. 
+And failed to realize it's not within their purview apparently.
+>In such a way as to exclude Masonry. 
+No, but you'd like to think so despite all the evidence to the contrary.
+>Why try to be a dick about it? How does that advance your cause?
+Because the truth matters. I realize to a relativist this might as well be like explaining bicycling to a fish but it matters nonetheless.
+--- 14925171
+>>14925168
+>it's not within their purview apparently
+Truth fears no investigation.
+>you'd like to think so
+Mostly because of the specific wording they chose to use in it, yes.
+>Because the truth matters.
+I concur. So why try to bury it under lies? Is it just for the sake of tradition?
+--- 14925187
+>>14922644 (OP)
+>if they're all deists/gnostics according to this website?
+
+Are they? In my county professing a belief in Christianity is a prerequisite to join them and that seems like the most common type of Freemasonry that exists too.
+--- 14925190
+>>14925171
+>Truth fears no investigation.
+Indeed. Which is why you should read the CDF links higher up that actually have authority on the matter.
+Incidentally the claim in your australian letter seems to have gotten him in quite some hot water: https://www.fli.org.au/bishops-permission-for-freemasonry-was-hiding-in-plain-sight/
+>Mostly because of the specific wording they chose to use in it, yes.
+And by ignoring their clarification regarding your specific pet issue that totally denies your viewpoint by the highest authority the Catholic church has on the topic, with a specific restriction on lower bodies changing any part of it.
+>I concur. So why try to bury it under lies? 
+You'd have to ask yourself that. For some reason people like you can just keep lying and lying and when caught out you pretend you never lied in the first place. It's strange and a bad character trait that should never have let you in the masons in the first place if their Integrity and Moral qualifications were in any way real.
+--- 14925201
+>>14925190
+>Which is why you should read the CDF links
+Already have. They just repeat historical lies. Gotta wonder why at this point. Probably too proud to admit they were wrong and acting so basely.
+>seems to have gotten him in quite some hot water
+Reaffirms my theory.
+>You'd have to ask yourself that.
+Why? I'm supporting the opposite. It's the Vatican who are trying to get people to forget that they lied about this for hundreds of years for no good reason.
+--- 14925209
+>>14922663
+It is a religion, you kike, stop trying to cop out.
+--- 14925212
+>>14925209
+How?
+--- 14925222
+>>14925187
+>most common
+No it's only a thing in Knights Templar (generic Christianity and not rigidly enforced), Rose Croix and Swedish Rite (rigid Trinitarianism) and invitational ones like the Red Cross of Constantine and Royal Order of Scotland. 
+The vast majority of Anglo rites are non-Christian only demanding belief in a supreme being and allow swearing on polytheist works like the Vedanta. 
+Grand Orient and South American ones are even (in)famous for their hostility to Christianity.
+--- 14925223
+>>14925004
+They're banned from being Masons.
+Accept it, cope, and Sneed.
+--- 14925229
+>>14925223
+But why? Seems very queer that you're too afraid to ask that question, and instead will just swallow propaganda.
+But hey, it's never stopped any Catholics from joining. Even Bishops.
+--- 14925231
+>>14925201
+>Already have. They just repeat historical lies.
+>Reaffirms my theory.
+>Why? I'm supporting the opposite. It's the Vatican who are trying to get people to forget that they lied about this for hundreds of years for no good reason.
+So in short: You claim to know better about what is allowed for Catholics than their own Catholic authorities and will lie and claim they are allowed to despite knowing it's not the case.
+--- 14925236
+>>14925231
+>You claim to know better
+Demonstrably. Not sure whether it's giving them the benefit of the doubt to say they're doing so out of idiocy or out of maliciousness though.
+--- 14925237
+>>14925229
+>But hey, it's never stopped any Catholics from joining. 
+Sure it did as they're no longer catholics in good standing by joining the freemasons. Excommunication latae sententiae. That's why they cannot partake in communion.
+--- 14925241
+>>14925212
+>We dress up, get together to pray, worship, and do magic, but we're totally not religious!
+--- 14925243
+>>14925241
+None of that makes it a religion, though. 
+And there's no magic.
+--- 14925246
+>>14925229
+Stop gaslighting.
+--- 14925249
+>>14922644 (OP)
+Not all do. Half of us are christian, half are left hand path. Both sides hate each other.
+--- 14925251
+>>14925237
+>That's why they cannot partake in communion.
+Again, hasn't stopped anyone. Hell, even I've taken Communion in a Catholic church when going with friends, and I'm not even Catholic. Didn't burst into flames or anything.
+--- 14925252
+>>14925243
+>None of that makes it a religion, though.
+And there's no magic.
+--- 14925255
+>>14925241
+None of that is religious.
+--- 14925256
+>>14925251
+Too bad for you the Knights of Columbus have already signed your death warrant.
+--- 14925261
+>>14925223
+No they aren't actually. A god portion are catholic. But there are 2 sects.
+--- 14925264
+>>14925256
+Apparently they signed their own recently with their uniform updates.
+But lol at your impotent threats to keep the truth under wraps.
+--- 14925269
+>>14925252
+--- 14925277
+>>14925251
+>Again, hasn't stopped anyone. 
+Sure it does. They cannot partake in communion while in a state of grave sin, they can only go through the motions. 
+>Hell, even I've taken Communion in a Catholic church when going with friends, and I'm not even Catholic. 
+And it will do you no good.
+"Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord."
+--- 14925280
+>>14925256
+--- 14925283
+>>14925277
+>They cannot partake in communion
+Want to bet?
+>And it will do you no good.
+Seemed fine at the time. Hardly recall anything in the Bible saying anything about such silly ecumenical matters.
+--- 14925294
+>>14925283
+It is "do this in remembrance of me(Christ)".
+
+If you're not taking communion for the glory of Christ, then the Bible does say such a thing.
+--- 14925296
+>>14925283
+>doesn't understand the Real Presence 
+>mocks the faith he claims to understand and mistakenly believes he has some secret knowledge of it
+You certainly don't inspire any confidence in the reason and character of freemasons.
+--- 14925297
+>>14925294
+I am, though.
+--- 14925300
+>>14925261
+>No they aren't actually.
+Yes they are as has been brought up multiple times in this thread. Catholics who join excommunicate themselves in the same way those who kill children through abortion do.
+--- 14925303
+>>14925296
+>mocks the faith
+Nope. And you're not inspiring any faith in the character of Catholics. But i suspect that might also have been your purpose.
+>believes he has some secret knowledge of it
+Nope. Not at all.
+--- 14925307
+>>14925277
+>They cannot partake in communion while in a state of grave sin, they can only go through the motions.
+Someone should write down all of these crazy rules into a book, so that we can keep track of them.
+--- 14925316
+>>14924870
+>>14925099
+>>14925153
+This and their involvement in Propaganda Due (P2) with direct ties to the Mafia.
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
+--- 14926367
+>>14925316
+>This and their involvement in Propaganda Due
+That involvement being to outlaw them, you mean?
+--- 14926995
+>>14922644 (OP)
+You're in bad company in this site. Haven't you notice that before?
+--- 14927537
+>>14926995
+Sorry about that, rabbi
+--- 14927585
+>>14927537
+You should feel sorry. It is your future.
+--- 14927591
+>>14922644 (OP)
+Because salvation is through us. G's us.
+--- 14927618
+>>14922644 (OP)
+>Why do evil people like an evil book?
+>Something doesn't add up...
+--- 14927847
+>>14922644 (OP)
+Don’t believe everything you read on the internet. Including this post.

his/14922735.txt

@@ -58,3 +58,105 @@ Germany basically allied or befriended anyone who was willing to be their ally o
 It was looking for recognition and other rogue states that were prepared to challenge the current western world order and oppose communism.
 
 The alliance with Japan pretty much didnt exist in practice, so allying Japan meant absolutely nothing and it wouldnt have changed anything if they werent allies. USA would still have found a way to enter the European war after the Japanese attack, ally or not.
+--- 14923897
+>>14922995
+My ans was a different AI and much better.
+--- 14923900
+>>14923044
+Communism was not that important at the time. It was more about Good vs Evil global domination. Commies are evil themselves and originally allied with Hitler before switching.
+--- 14924048
+They all were in cahoots with each other you gullible bozos. History isn't a storyline
+--- 14924079
+>>14922735 (OP)
+The US was already "in" the war, it supplied the UK and attacked German U-boats when needed, but that strays away from the topic. It was Germany that declared war on the US, not the other way around. Japan's contribution to the "Axis" war effort was significant - taking the resources of SE Asia from the Brits and diverting resources from the European front. I put Axis in " " because it's not a true alliance, they "allied" because they faced the same enemies and they didn't face the same enemies (US) because they were "allied". It wasn't planned, but rather an alliance of circumstance - f.e. Germans initially supported China, wanted to allign itself the UK(no reason to war with them if your goal is going east), etc.
+Also, one shouldn't forget that WW2 was a series of separate wars and not one war, unlike WW1. It's end, the unconditional capitulations of defeated countries is also something not common in history (of great power wars).
+--- 14924103
+>>14924079
+>. It was Germany that declared war on the US, not the other way around. 
+
+Only after USA declared war on Japan.
+--- 14924106
+>>14924079
+>Also, one shouldn't forget that WW2 was a series of separate wars and not one war, unlike WW1
+
+how so?
+--- 14924119
+>>14924103
+Only after the attack on Pearl Harbor and Japanese declaration of war on the US. The articles of Tripartite Pact didn't obligate the signatories to declare war if they started the war. It doesn't even matter, the US would've joined the European war anyway and at atleast now you can openly attack their convoys.
+--- 14924131
+Why the fuck did Hitler accept Italy into the Axis?
+--- 14924135
+>>14924106
+>Second Sino-Japanese war.
+>Great Patriotic war.
+Both wars put in the larger term of WW2 even though opposing belligerents of WW2 aren't necessarily engaged them.
+Germany and Italy didn't participate in the Second Sino_japanese war and Japan didn't participate in the Great Patriotic war. Contrast that with WW1 where joining the war meant declaring war on whole enemy alliance.
+That's just my opinion on the matter.
+--- 14924153
+>>14924131
+That one makes more sense. Back when Germany was only beginning its campaign of expansion, Italy was powerful enough that they could have thrown a wrench into it. Anschluss with Austria was a turning point, Mussolini didn't like it at all, but France and Britain had already alienated Italy by condemning its invasion of Ethiopia.
+--- 14924429
+>>14922735 (OP)
+because the "axis" was a press release retard it was just a nonaggression pact.
+--- 14924979
+>>14924135
+I never heard of the great patriotic war????
+--- 14925084
+>>14924979
+It's the German-Soviet war. Russians use the term Great Patriotic war rather than WW2.
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Patriotic_War_(term)
+--- 14925208
+>>14925084
+Ive never heard about any of this.
+--- 14925215
+>>14925208
+I feel like a retard.
+>Also, one shouldn't forget that WW2 was a series of separate wars and not one war, unlike WW1
+I guess this is common knowledge,mb.
+--- 14925505
+>>14924103
+>>14924119
+
+Yep, the German declaration of war on the US kinda "makes sense" because USA was supplying the USSR indefinitely with war material and the US was protecting British convoys and stationed troops on British military bases so Britain could use their garrison soldiers at the front instead.
+USA was already committed to the war. Their commitment had already placed Germany in a fight they couldn't win, not on the eastern front and not against the British. 
+Declaring war on the US was a formality of the existing situation, except now Germany could also target US shipping which actually brought German submarines a major advantage for a short time. 
+
+One should also consider the fact that by the time the US had begun their military campaign in continental Europe 1943, the German war effort was largely already lost and they were in full retreat on all fronts.
+
+The biggest "mistake" was probably the tremendous suffering of German civilians from the US formally entering the war.
+--- 14926716
+>>14922735 (OP)
+He did not "accept Japan into the Axis". They cooperated in menacing the Soviets. Their war against the Allies was launched to exploit the European theater, but it was never coordinated in any way. After Japan entered the war against the Allies, its communication lines with Germany were severed and they couldn't coordinate even if they wanted to - not that there would be much point. 
+>>Bombed Pearl Habor and dragged the Americans into the war, giving them a casus belli against Germany
+Uhhh, that would actually be when Germany declared war on the US themselves, retard. Why does America need a CB when you fucking attack them? LMAO
+--- 14926728
+>>14922995
+The answer it gives is because Japan also contributed massively to the war effort by distracting the UK and Americans, which is correct - of course. 
+It is obnoxious how they use the maximum possible tokens to spit out an answer. This is why you should start working with the API directly instead of using the chat interface.
+--- 14926750
+>>14924131
+Because he would otherwise have literally zero allies in the war besides shithole Balkan countries. The Italians successfully secured North Africa and bought the Axis a lot of time. The Allies had to fight all the way up Italy. 
+Additionally, you underestimate Mussolini and his ego. He would have been happy to side with the Allies against the Axis.
+--- 14927036
+>>14922735 (OP)
+>>Bombed Pearl Habor and dragged the Americans into the war, giving them a casus belli against Germany
+Germany already felt that the U.S. was fighting an undeclared war against them. They declared war on the U.S. following Pearl Harbor to split the American forces while also freeing up the Kriegsmarine from operational restrictions. What Hitler didn't expect, however, was that the United States would treat Germany as its primary enemy rather than Japan.
+--- 14927041
+>>14926728
+>This is why you should start working with the API directly instead of using the chat interface.
+Okay, how do I do that?
+--- 14927109
+>>14922735 (OP)
+the nips had been dunking on the ruskies for centuries. They were good trading partners and allies because they were fighting the commie chinks
+--- 14927112
+>>14924131
+Anyone fighting the communists was in t axis. Italy and Spain had their own commie uprisings that the fascists squashed therefore they were part of the chad fashy crew
+--- 14927174
+>>14927109
+The commie chinks were isolated on the mountains what the fuck are you talking about?
+--- 14928113
+iirc the Japanese were trying to cut off the lend-lese supply lines going in through the Indian ocean. If successful it would have been a big hindrance to supplying the Soviets as well as help the Axis win in the middle-east and north-africa
+--- 14928131
+Because he was inspired by mussolini, he came into power only 10 years after him. Also italy could have been useful in a few years, they gave a lot in their ethiopian and spanish wars and weren't ready 
+
+Althought mussolini was a retard who thought making more tanks and planes was not necessary and the heart of soldiers would suffice

his/14923021.txt

@@ -93,3 +93,369 @@ Way to only view religions through your specific religious belief. Without even
 --- 14923620
 >>14923021 (OP)
 Both were only traditionally worshipped by rich nobles or warrior fanatics who controlled religion only for themselves, so I don't really give a damn.! Zeus won't throw a lightning bolt for me, and Odin would simply ignore me. The beliefs of Pagans aren't like the blind faith of Christians in an Omni-God, nor are the practices the same. Christianity did one good thing for Pagans over time. Paganism is no longer just for the State and the rich 'Nobles' of the world. One monstrous betrayal from them was quite enough!
+--- 14923720
+>>14923029
+Christians 500 years ago believed Eve really ate the apple. Today they believe it is a metaphor
+--- 14923728
+>>14923720
+i am 500 years ago
+--- 14923738
+>>14923021 (OP)
+Odin, Jove, Brahma, and even the Great Mumbo Jumbo all exist/don't exist in the same way. They're all various cultures attempts to interpret the divine in ways that make sense to them. The same as Jehovah, Allah, Buddha, etc.
+--- 14923974
+>>14923021 (OP)
+>Odin or Zeus
+Y e s .
+--- 14923985
+>>14923021 (OP)
+They both exist because they are disguises of Satan.
+--- 14923991
+>>14923088
+Imagine thinking Jesus isn't white. What are you, a black israelite?
+--- 14923992
+>>14923985
+Even God is a disguise of Satan
+>Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” (2 Samuel 24:1)
+>Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. (1 Chronicles 21:1)
+
+Satan is the true ruler of reality. Why do you think the elites worship him?
+--- 14924008
+The Norse equivalent to Zeus is Thor. Odin is Hermes.
+--- 14924009
+>>14923991
+Yeshua Ben Yosef was a Semite that spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. Only schizophrenics think Jesus was an Indo -European.
+--- 14924011
+HELP Zeus kidnapped my pretty boy son and gave me some horses as if that is a good trade???
+--- 14924039
+>>14924009
+akshually IESVS CHRISTVS was the son of the Aryan Sky God Dyeus Ph2ter.
+--- 14924447
+>>14924039
+Cope. Aryans are not referred to as rabbis like Jesus is. (Forgive me if you're being sarcastic otherwise kys)
+--- 14924449
+All of them.
+--- 14924458
+>>14923029
+Christians are the same way. If you get down enough into Christian apologetics it's clear they don't literally believe in Yahweh, the God of the OT, but some sort of vague Platonic monad. Christians are closer to pantheists than monotheists.
+--- 14924770
+What kind of history board is this. Has no one ever read any kind of ancient text? Ancient people believed they all exist and that foreign gods were either their gods under a different name or or could be assimilated into their pantheon. 
+
+Also Odin is not equated with Zeus he is the Norse Hermes/mercury
+--- 14924862
+>>14923021 (OP)
+They both do probably. Any deities derived an Indo-European source are also probably just different names for the same deities -- different cultural expressions of the same thing. Seems that way to me anyway.
+>>14923029
+Plenty of people do. I do I think. I had a casual interest in the subject (historical paganism, mostly Germanic) for a while but I wasn't interested in practicing it for various reasons. However, recently I made a sort of desperate plea, a prayer to them for guidance in my life. I figured I'd try because why not? In the coming days and weeks I started having these bizarre coincidences that I couldn't rationally explain and all this good luck. Seems to have worked so I guess I'll explore further. Have to say it's maybe the only time in my life where I've prayed (grew up Christian) and actually seen tangible results. Believe it or don't, doesn't matter to me just thought I'd reply.
+>>14923049
+There's truth to this utilitarian line of thinking too even if religion is/was BS.
+--- 14924885
+I'm not a neopagan nor pagan at all but the gods are very real, here in 4chan, Eris reigns with her ugly face sending anons to battle each other over inane faggotry
+--- 14925473
+>>14923075
+Doub it 
+
+I've read several Egyptian texts that portray Amun/Ra/Osiris (depending on the text) as the unique God, the True God, the King of the Gods, the strongest and greatest of the Gods, as the only one worthy of worship. The same view is shared by the Avesta for Ahura Mazda, by the Rig Veda for Indra, and by the Enuma Elish for Marduk/Ashur (depending on the text) 
+
+This idea that all the Gods are the same is basically a larpagan take born out of the Western liberal dogma of absolute equality (all humans are the same, all cultures are the same, all gender are the sames).
+--- 14925481
+>>14924009
+ive seen Catholics argue Jesus spoke Latin.
+--- 14925513
+>>14925473
+That's henotheism, a kind of interstadium between poly- and monotheism if you will
+--- 14925524
+>>14924770
+This was a phenomenon typical of the greek and roman cultures. Middle eastern polytheism, specially in its early form, was exclusionary and personalistic (opposed to the naturalistic/pantheistic nature of European polytheism), not having anything similar to interpretatio until the hellenistic period. With celts, germans and most other euro-aryan religions, we do t really know due to the lack of documentation previous to roman contact. With hinduism, I don’t know.
+--- 14925528
+>>14925524
+>exclusionary and personalistic
+could you explain what you mean by that
+--- 14925531
+>>14924885
+Funny how discordianism is mostly practiced by discord trannies nowadays. Really makes you think.
+--- 14925541
+>>14925528
+Exclusionary = attempts to exclude the importance of other deities, but not to the point of being monotheistic. In technical terms, henotheistic. 
+Personalistic as in those figures being complete cultural constructions with few references to a natural phenomenon, possibly being deified people (controversial and a somewhat outdated view in academia, I think)This classification is obviously flawed to analise mesopothamian religions by themselves because it derives from theological notions developed by the romans by estabilishment the notion of a natural religion with Varro, though.
+--- 14925543
+>>14925528
+Basically, if you worshipped Canaanite paganism you couldn't worship the Hebrew pantheon and viceverse. If you worshipped god(s) A you could not venerate B.
+Personalistic I have no idea what he means.
+Because all qualities I could assign to Semitic/ME gods that are "personalistic" are also assignable to the greco-roman gods (to be fair the Greek pantheon has a lot of Eastern influence not present in westward pantheons.
+--- 14925548
+>>14923029
+>>14923021 (OP)
+ironically, Christians believe Odin and Zeus actually exist (or existed), but were simply fallen angels or euhemerized human beings and not accurately described as "gods" because there's only one God
+--- 14925549
+>>14925541
+I don't think its entirely impossible some gods or mythical heroes might have begun as important people who got mythified with time.
+--- 14925588
+>>14925549
+Yes, but Roman theologians went out of the way to remove that from the “real” creed. Folklorical tales and mythfied heroes were delegated to the realm of mythical and civil religion, which were recognized as “social constructs” or allegories even back then, while natural religion was the actual attempt at deciphering the divine. Main source for this is the aforementioned Varro, but also mentioned by others like Cicero, Javolenus and Celsus.
+--- 14925598
+>>14925541
+>>14925543
+In that case how in the world were ancient near eastern religions exclusionary
+could you provide some examples so I understand the thought process
+As for them being personalistic, again I have to disagree. Dumuzi was spring and rebirth personalised, Nisaba and Ninurta grain and harvest deities (the latter also war). Hell, An = sky, Enlil = wind and air. Granted deities like Marduk are far harder to tie to natural phenomena, but that is a later semitic deitiy and (purely?) Akkadian in influence
+--- 14925648
+>>14923720
+But I believe that today, and so does every other Christian I know
+--- 14925660
+>>14925598
+>In that case how in the world were ancient near eastern religions exclusionary
+If you were from Ur or whatever, you only worshipped Ishtar. If you were from Ashur, though, you could only worship their city deity. Each city state recognized the existence of the other gods, but refused them. This explanation is more allegorical than correct, by the way. I don’t quite remember which deity was worshipped in each city and I’m pretty sure Ashur/Assyria was an outlier to this system. It also pesked in the Bronze Age, slowly declining through the Iron Age and finally dying off in the hellenistic period.
+--- 14925679
+Pagan here. Both exist. The ancient pagan Greeks thought or would say today that both are Zeus. But it's more nuanced, the truth. Both are separate identities but the role is the same. So in a way, they are actually both Zeus. Gods don't have physical bodies they are spirit.
+--- 14925727
+>>14925660
+Completely untrue. Each city had multiple temples to multiple deities, ranging from massive complexes + ziggurats to small shrines. Personal names reflect this general polytheism too, with inhabitants of one city having widely different theophoric elements in their name. Even the Assyrians, who led a state that aggressively pushed state religion and Aššur-worship in conquered territories, had in multiple instances kings with names mentioning Sîn, Ninurta, etc (Sennacherib, Tukulti-Ninurta). In earlier times, kings would dedicate gifts and monuments to local deities in conquered cities, not just their personal deities or capital's god (though those often were at the forefront). It was polytheism in its purest sense, and only in later times did it morph into henotheistic Marduk-worship in Babylon; the theory that the Old Babylonian religious situation was henotheistic is based on Marduk being named "Enlil of his land" in one text, which does not necessarily mean the other gods were identified with him, since Enlil was the head of the active pantheon in other regions, meaning it could just be referring to his dethronement by the local Babylonian patron in the land of Babylon (this corroborated by the later Enuma Elish, wherein he receives the "enlilship" in heaven)
+--- 14925740
+>>14925679
+>but the role is the same.
+brainlet take, typical larpagan post
+--- 14925783
+>>14925473
+That is a complete misinterpretation, those gods are still believed to have equivalents in other cultures. Ahura Mazda is Zeus, as is Amun-Ra, Alexander identified himself as the son of both as they are understood to be the same deity. Only Jews considered their monolatrous deity to be inherently distinct from the deities of other cultures.
+--- 14925809
+>>14925679
+Odin wasn't even a deity until the 3rd or 4th century AD at the earliest, and even then not among the southern and eastern Germanics
+--- 14925815
+>>14923021 (OP)
+Only Ukko exists. Rest of "gods" are just His alter egos.
+--- 14925823
+>>14925809
+Odin traces to the Proto-Germanic *Wodanaz and is described by Roman authors from the earliest point of contact with Germanics. There is no evidence for Germanic religion drastically changing within the time of the historical record.
+--- 14925828
+>>14925815
+(C)ukko isn't real. Baal is real.
+--- 14925832
+>>14925727
+Marduk-worship is a very, VERY late development in Ancient Mesopotamian religion, a quasi-monotheistic view is already present in the earliest of texts regarding the Annunaki, which are the "Children of Anu", a supreme Sky-Father creator deity which delegated governorship of the various aspects of creation to his children such as Enki and Enlil and so forth,
+I hesitate to use the words "henotheism" or "monolatry" to refer to this theological perspective, because those words refer to exclusive worship of a given divinity without reference to his position vis-a-vis other divinities; for example, a Vestal Virgin is an exclusive devotee of the Roman goddess Vesta, but by no means believes that other gods don't exist or are inferior or superior beings, or are supernatural beings that aren't definable as gods, or whathaveyou.
+--- 14925863
+>>14925823
+The earliest attestation of Odin or an equivalent name in the archaeological record is a coin dating from the 450s AD with the inscription "I am Odin's man", but does not necessarily indicate that Odin is a god.
+There is speculation that Tacitus described "Odin" as "Mercury" in his Germania, but we really have to take the word of Romans with a grain of salt
+--- 14925880
+>>14925863
+Linguistic evidence confirms the existence of Odin as a god to the Proto-Germanic period with little doubt, and there is no reason to doubt the Mercury identification which remains consistent for centuries. This interpretation is confirmed beyond doubt by the Germanics themselves translating the Roman Dies mercuri as Wodinas dag, which is now Wednesday in English. How will you weasel your way out of that one?
+--- 14925895
+>>14925880
+>linguistic evidence
+how do you have linguistic evidence of a people who didn't have a writing system until the 3rd century AD and whose literate chroniclers were from foreign countries that didn't give a rat's ass about trying to write down their words?
+>How will you weasel your way out of that one?
+Can you point out the approximate date of the Germanic adoption of Roman days of the week?
+--- 14925913
+>>14925895
+>how do you have linguistic evidence of a people who didn't have a writing system until the 3rd century AD
+The comparative method, the Proto-Germanic language is fully reconstructed and many resources are available to study it. Besides that, runes are far older and there are probable PG inscriptions from far before that date.
+>Can you point out the approximate date of the Germanic adoption of Roman days of the week?
+Consensus is that it was done in Proto-West Germanic and that Old Norse calqued the weekdays separately, meaning at the absolute latest it would be the fall of the Western Roman Empire, but likely earlier. In fact, it is logical that at least some Germanics would've used the Roman calendar from the very beginning of Roman occupation of the Rhineland, and the conventions of translating divine names must necessarily date to the first large-scale language contact.
+--- 14925919
+>>14925913
+>the Proto-Germanic language is fully reconstructed 
+a roundabout way of saying "totally made up"
+>consensus
+whose consensus
+--- 14925930
+>>14925919
+The comparative method can be easily applied by any person using public records to check for the soundness of the conclusions drawn. You are free to refer to Biblical Gothic, Old English, etc. to independently verify the processes used, no secret information is involved. If you still wish to reject the entire discipline, the basis for our discussion is removed.
+--- 14925953
+>>14923021 (OP)
+To ancient humans both gods existed
+>but but that makes no sense
+Ancient humans never cared once about shit making any sense
+--- 14926123
+The Romans claimed both the Germanics and Celts worshipped primarily Mercury. I think the idea that all Indo-Europeans worshipped the same Skyfather is overgeneralizing, there's too many counterexamples. Not to mention important distinctions like Greeks/Romans identifying the Sun as male and the moon as female, while the Germanics/Baltics believed the opposite. People are too quick these days to claim all European pages were basically the same.
+--- 14926197
+>>14926123
+Obvious sky-father analogues are very clear in bronze-age society, but not on a uniform basis and it varies by era. For example, the Zeus of the Mycenaeans was entirely different from the Zeus of Homer and Hesiod, and the chiefly worshiped deity in authentic Germanic mythology is usually a thunder-god equivalent of Perkwunos like Thor; indeed, Poseidon is frequently the chief deity of the Greek civilizations before 1000 BC. Furthermore, the Proto-Indo-European model of religion does not seem to necessarily be limited to those peoples with Indo-European languages and cultures, and therefore cannot accurately be called strictly Indo-European at all.
+--- 14926559
+>>14923021 (OP)
+Men can create gods with their thoughts. You underestimate the power of thought. It can create beings and situations.
+
+Everything in this world was once a thought. Think about that.
+Everything starts with a thought.
+
+::
+
+Narayana is a Sanskrit name that is composed of two words: "Nara" which means man, and "Ayana" which means resting place or home. So, the meaning of Narayana is "the resting place of man" or "the home of man".
+--- 14926569
+>>14923021 (OP)
+Both
+--- 14926578
+Jesus, Odin, Zeus same guy
+
+https://www.vidlii.com/watch?v=huDTH702c02
+--- 14926624
+>>14926578
+No. They say opposite things.
+--- 14926627
+>>14925481
+He lived under the Roman empire in a multilingual region, he might as well could have
+--- 14926661
+>>14926627
+technically plausible, but I'd sooner believe he spoke Koine Greek from a purely parsimonious stance
+of course, as a Christian, he could have spoke whatever he bloody well pleased, being God
+--- 14926684
+>>14925919
+We have attested Proto-Germanic words.
+
+>>14925919
+>whose consensus
+Literally every linguist on the planet. The theory accurately predicted new words in the IE Anatolian languages and in Proto-Norse, so I don't know what more you want.
+
+>>14925895
+>Can you point out the approximate date of the Germanic adoption of Roman days of the week?
+Somewhere between 200AD and 300AD. 
+
+So if you want to argue that there was a one-eyed spear-wielding bird-owning traveler-wizard God who had a name other than Odin in, say, 100AD, and that he just got renamed to "The furious one", that's an argument that you could make, but there'd still be a one-eyed spear-wielding bird-owning traveler-wizard God in 100AD, he'd just have one name not in the huge list of names. Which, realistically, is what happened anyways, because we know that the Skyfather's name wasn't "the furious one" by rather was *Dyeus Phter. Although it does make sense for him to be named Oðinn given that this names derives from another PIE name for the Skyfather.
+--- 14926941
+>>14926684
+Whoever Odin is, he's not the Sky Father but an entirely different god. The Sky Father is Tyr, but for whatever reason the Germanic peoples saw him as less and less important over time and gave some of his traits to the new god Odin.
+--- 14926973
+>>14926941
+Odin is very clearly a Euhemerized warlord or shaman who altered North-Germanic religious practices after gaining a degree of political control during the Late Roman era, one or two centuries before the collapse of the WRE most likely. I think it's very significant that he is not a recognized divinity among the Visigoths and Ostrogoths (Geats) or Vandals (Wends), who were Thor and Tyr worshipers before their Christianization.
+--- 14926980
+>>14926197
+>Furthermore, the Proto-Indo-European model of religion does not seem to necessarily be limited to those peoples with Indo-European languages and cultures, and therefore cannot accurately be called strictly Indo-European at all
+The Proto-Indo-Europeans were just part of a broader Eurasian Steppe culture that also spawned the Turks and the Mongols, who all originally worshipped the blue sky as their chief god. The only difference was the PIEs seem to have had a strict priest/scholar caste that some of them retained.
+--- 14926987
+>>14923985
+This but yahweh is also satan (Jesus was the son of a higher god)
+--- 14926993
+>>14924770
+>Has no one ever read any kind of ancient text? 
+Half this board can barely read 4chin posts
+--- 14926997
+>>14926980
+yeah but the early Semites and Sumerians (and to a much lesser extent, Egyptians) had Sky-Fathers as well and I'd have trouble convincing haploautists that they're aryans
+--- 14927015
+>>14926980
+do the Chinese and Native Americans count as "mongols"? Because their concept of "Tian/Shangdi" and the "Great Spirit" is linguistically associated with "sky" or "heaven" as abstract concepts
+--- 14927030
+>>14923021 (OP)
+Yes
+--- 14927034
+>>14923029
+>i can read minds
+redditing faggot
+--- 14927047
+>>14926941
+1. The Sky Father was never the chief of the pantheon, there is not a single IE pantheon where he is indisputably the head. Zeus and Jupiter are merged with the thunderer, and these are extremely un-conservative pantheons anyhow.
+2. It cannot be asserted that Tyr is directly the Sky Father, his name is simply the generic word for god. It could have come about any other way, but most importantly he has no celestial association what so ever.
+--- 14927055
+>>14926973
+This is complete fanfiction. 
+>not a recognized divinity among the Visigoths and Ostrogoths (Geats) or Vandals (Wends)
+According to what source? Are you retarded?
+--- 14927061
+>>14927055
+Gods and Myths of Northern Europe by HR Ellis Davidson
+Odin was introduced to northern Scandinavia by the Heruli, an East-Germanic people
+--- 14927065
+>>14926997
+>>14927015
+My point is that most PIE spirituality didn't come from anything unique to them as a race but was a response to the environment they lived in and the material culture they developed. Convergent evolution would affect any people who herded cattle on the open plain the same way. Also,
+>Native American
+What are you referring to specifically? Because "Great Spirit" is a conventional translation of a concept that appears in unrelated Indian cultures like Gichi-Manidoo among the Ojibwe and Wakan Tanka among the Lakota, and neither term refers to the sky.
+--- 14927078
+>>14927061
+What basis does he make this claim on? Any schizo can make a book in which he asserts obvious banal untruths, which these are. Give direct verifiable evidence or kill yourself.
+--- 14927095
+>>14927078
+>Hilda Roderick Ellis Davidson FSA (born Hilda Roderick Ellis; 1 October 1914 – 12 January 2006) was an English folklorist. 
+
+>A graduate of Newnham College, Cambridge, Davidson was a Fellow at Lucy Cavendish College, Cambridge, throughout much of her career. She specialized in the interdisciplinary study of Celtic, Anglo-Saxon and Old Norse religion and folklore, on which she was the author of numerous influential works.
+
+>Davidson began her academic career as an assistant lecturer in English at Royal Holloway, University of London (1939–1944).[1] Her first book The Road to Hel: A Study of the Conception of the Dead in Old Norse Literature (1943), published under her maiden name Hilda Ellis, utilized archaeological evidence for the examination of death in Norse paganism. This was a pioneering approach, as the study of Old English and Old Norse in British academia at the time was strictly concerned with literary and linguistic concerns. Davidson's utilization of an interdisciplinary approach to the study of Old Norse religion was to become a strong characteristic of her research.[2] From 1945 to 1955 she was a lecturer in the extramural department at Birkbeck, University of London.[1]
+
+>Although encountering a significant amount of opposition to her attempt at combining archaeological and philological evidence for the study of Old Norse and wider Germanic religion, Davidson continued with her research. In subsequent years, she published a number of influential works, including The Sword in Anglo-Saxon England (1962), Gods and Myths of Northern Europe (1964), Pagan Scandinavia (1967), and Scandinavian Mythology (1969).[3][4] With Peter Gelling, she published The Chariot of the Sun (1969). During this time, Davidson contributed many papers to scholarly journals, where she often drew on her knowledge of myth, legend and folklore to interpret archaeological finds.[3]
+--- 14927098
+>>14927095
+Where in this is the information that "Vandals did not recognize Odin as a divinity" derived?
+--- 14927191
+>>14923049
+>I believe in made up shit and LARP because I'm so racist I'll do the contrary the main western religion says because it's origins are not from where my culture originates
+Holy shit LARPagans are retarded
+--- 14927309
+>>14926941
+No, Odin is very clearly the Sky Father.
+>Head motifs
+>Sacred beverage
+>Defends the primordial she-bovine
+>Married to the Earth Mother
+>Constantly cheating on her
+>Fathered the Striker
+>Wields a spear
+>Father of all
+>Creator of man
+>Wanderer
+>Enforced of guest-host law
+>Ruler of the universe
+>Also a scuzzy forest dude
+>Granter of poetic inspiration
+>Source of all knowledge
+>Makes people mentally ill for fun
+>Associated with the sky
+>Has an army of groupies to sick on people that he doesn't like
+>Has a bunch of personified she-concepts who work for him
+This is Odin, this is Zeus, this is Jupiter, this is Shiva, this is the Dagda. It's not Tyr.
+
+>>14926973
+The Goths (Visigoths and Geats included) worshiped Odin, the Vandals and Wends are two separate peoples (although there was a Germanic contingent to the Wends that did worship Odin), and we have basically no information on the Vandals. Why they wouldn't worship the head of the pantheon that shows up in every other Indo-European religion, the dude who is the patron of marauding warbands, is beyond me.
+--- 14927315
+>>14927191
+I know, right? Fucking byzaboo larpers, I swear.
+--- 14927321
+>>14927309
+the irony of his cringe coldtake is that you can make a better case that odin came out of scandinavia than into scandinavia
+--- 14927328
+>>14923021 (OP)
+Why the fuck are you asking me I'm not a pagan
+--- 14927332
+>>14927098
+From the lack of information on their pre-Arian religious practices. He's extrapolating "we don't know the Vandal name for Odin" to "they didn't worship him despite every other Germanic people doing so".
+--- 14927362
+>>14923029
+Pagans are just larpers who view religions in terms of how it can build a society. they think Pagan values are better for their country than Christian values. obviously this will never get far if the people promoting the view doesn't actually believe in the metaphysics behind it
+--- 14927369
+>>14923049
+funny that a lot of the biggest Neopagan accounts on the internet have recently been exposed as zionist jews
+--- 14927376
+>>14927362
+excellent criticism of the tradlarp phenomena, but i dont see what this has to do with people who worship odin and thor
+--- 14927381
+>>14927376
+i'm not convinced that there is a significant amount of people who actually do that today, but i might be wrong. like i said it seems like the ones promoting it don't really believe it
+--- 14927395
+>>14927381
+are you refering to costin somethingsomethingromanian? he has never claimed to be anything other than a jew so i am not sure what you mean about him being pagan. most of the people around him are so-called christians.
+
+as for numbers, you need to define "significant". there are more dudes worshiping thor than there are pretending to be russian to own the democrats or whatever. secondly, why do their numbers matter? if they get together and do it, and they do, then they clearly believe in it. people dont kill goats on top of stone piles and burn the body to be "ironic". at what point does the number of people doing a thing make the people doing it "believe" in it? there are only 250 jews in iceland which is far fewer than the number of thor worshipers in the us, do they "not believe" in judaism because they haven't hit the arbitrary number threshold?
+--- 14927411
+>>14923049
+It's hilarious the first half of your post contradicts the second
+>Heh... Religion is about social capital, doesn't matter what sky daddy it praises...
+>Well Christianity is huge in the social capital market so maybe that one?
+>NOOO NOT THAT ONE DIE KIKE DIE KIKE DIE KIKE
+--- 14927425
+>>14923029
+Yes, they are allegory. But you have no clue what they represent.
+--- 14927440
+>>14927034
+>No argument
+Is it because he's right and you don't have the gall to lie that you actually think a guy on a cloud is casting lightnings our way so you resort to insulting him for hitting a nerve? Also sorry for mind reading LOL
+--- 14927574
+>>14927362
+That describes every single E-Christian on 4chan. Nobody gives a shit about theology in the modern day, it's about what values you want society to be based off of.
+--- 14927579
+>>14927411
+Perhaps he doesn't like the values mainstream Christianity espouses?
+--- 14927590
+>>14927579
+The whole of Christianity is a palette so wide you can find nearly any extremist on it. This wizard of social intelligence thinks it's easier to astroturf a religion than it is to cloak your values in the current mainstream one, or even convert to a different branch?
+--- 14927645
+>>14927590
+His opposition seems to be racial in context, so I doubt those will suit him either.

his/14923086.txt

@@ -120,3 +120,158 @@ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time
 --- 14923692
 >>14923668
 Also one should note that anschluss was only possible by permit of the British and the French. In Stresa Front and Pact of Rome, Italy was officially against the presence of National Socialists in Austria meanwhile (during Stresa Front) British and French declared a League of Nations interference is not necessary and peaceful dialogue with Germany should continue.
+--- 14923717
+>>14923646
+>And what are you on about with communism wanting to "create the perfect man"? I don't recall that being in their agenda.
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Soviet_man
+--- 14924443
+>>14923646
+>And is fascism really anti-capitalist?
+Fascists don't have an ideological economic theory, hatred towards communists wasn't based on economics.
+--- 14924645
+>Conservative doesn't believe in Darwinism
+--- 14924702
+>>14923167
+lenin was half jewish, and it's not contested by anybody that has any idea what they're talking about
+--- 14924706
+>>14924702
+also
+>couldn't know he was a jew
+Lenin's mother spoke yiddish
+--- 14925083
+>>14923110
+Yeah, but you but he was a 1.50 manlet, so who cares what he said
+--- 14925143
+>>14923646
+>When did communism ever support Darwinism?
+There was actually quite a large eugenicist movement up untill the Stalin banned it in the 30s (late I belive) when National Socialism was talking about race and relations worsened. Germany and the USSR even had their own international eugenics meeting at one point because other countries didn't want them present in theirs.
+>create the perfect man
+The new soviet man is pretty wel known. After eugenics fell out of Stalins favour they just switched to ideas of creating it by education and economic equality which would somehow create it.
+>And is fascism really anti-capitalist?
+Fascism was ''against'' it but more in the sense of instead being for class cooperation. National Socialism on the other hand was very much against anti-capitalism. They saw the economy as needing to be totally subordinate to state intrests. National Socialism was basically a form of market socialism (but without much Marxist influence, it was more derived from Friedrich List and the idea of a national system which technically places it's origin with nationalist economics which morphed into socialism).
+>There's a reason they hate the commies
+They also hated capitalists. It was a pretty big issue in the party wether they should ally with the west to attack the communist east or ally with the east to attack the capitalist west. Then after they would attack the other. Hitler wanted to go east first because then he could get resources to build up and attack the stronger west. They also hated commies because they weren't much a fan of central planning and didn't like the idea of economic class struggle. They instead wanted to reduce class differences, get every class in line with the party (except the bourgeois, a lot of them were seen as white Jews and were to be removed) and then focus on the struggle between races and peoples.
+--- 14925284
+>>14923086 (OP)
+> "democracy" 
+> unaccountable corporate conglomerate owns everything and is subsidized from your taxes
+> you can vote for 1 out of 2-3 boomers who all serve above conglomerate unconditionally and won't be held responsible for lying to the public or ignoring their promises
+> just vote HARDER next time, guys!
+The only reason West had above average living standards was due to legacy of absolute monarchies. Britain became an Empire as absolute monarchy and so did France, Spain and Germany. "Democracy" is not even real and is just a glorified oligarchy run by nepotism and corruption of highest order.
+--- 14925546
+>>14925284
+>Britain became an Empire as absolute monarchy
+Factually wrong, unless you count a few piss poor colonies in the New World as "the empire". The actual might of the British empire came only after the Glorious Revolution, and claiming that that was an "absolute monarchy" is beyond dumb.
+--- 14925580
+>>14925546
+Before the whig insurrection, Britain already had a huge fleet and giant trade-based economy. 
+All that whigs did was exploit the economy, cause famine, separatism and run unprofitable ventures that ended up wasting more potential then gain.
+--- 14925617
+>>14923086 (OP)
+>Hindus are a beastly people with a beastly religion
+--- 14925629
+>>14923086 (OP)
+Communism was about withering away the state.
+How did Churchill want small government?
+
+Stalin was a Gruziyan that didn't give a fuck about Slavic nationalism and only supported it if it had a pragmatic advantage.
+--- 14925646
+>>14923086 (OP)
+>Stalin and Hitler had the same ideology 
+
+Yes, but you forgot about FDR too. The New Deal Regime, the National Socialist Regime, and the Bolshevik Regime were all equally revolutionary.
+--- 14925683
+>>14923646
+
+The reason fascists hate communists has nothing to do with actual policy. But because communism is "Jewish".
+--- 14925709
+>>14925683
+fascists dont like abolition of private property
+--- 14925717
+>>14925709
+I thought fascists wanted the state in every aspect of life.
+--- 14925818
+>>14925709
+
+Fascists don't like when a Jewish state owns their property. They like it when an Aryan state does though.
+--- 14925819
+>>14923086 (OP)
+Remind me again how many people did Churchill mass murder in Bengal famine?
+--- 14927106
+>>14924702
+>>14924706
+Literally 100% untrue
+--- 14927117
+>>14923086 (OP)
+
+Hitler didn't believe in big government at all.
+--- 14927132
+>>14923105
+The only reason why you think that is because enslaving and colonizing brown people into poverty, starvation, and genocide isn't a big deal for you.
+--- 14927178
+>>14927117
+He definitely believed in the fascist "total state"
+--- 14927187
+>>14927117
+>Hitler didn't believe in big government at all.
+--- 14927194
+>>14927117
+Wow you are a retard. The Nazis started out as pro-big government keynesians in the 1930s and by the 1940s it was basically a command economy with price controls and many nationalized industries.
+--- 14927220
+>>14927178
+Except that's not just a fascist thing. As well as National Socialism not being fascist.
+--- 14927230
+>>14927220
+Neither of those two things contradict what I said, and more importantly do nothing to advance the "Hitler the small government libertarian" argument
+--- 14927236
+Historylet here. Who is right in the "hitler cucked his generals" argument? I've heard differing opinions from credible-sounding sources but don't have the time or interest to properly investigate myself
+--- 14927261
+>>14927230
+Yes it does. You called it the fascist ''total state''. That's wrong because National Socialism was not fascism, nor is totalitarianism inherently fascist. I also said nothing about the small government stuff. Although if you must know Hitler was wansn't pro big government per se and saw it more as being practical for imposing the ideology. When the ideology was implemented and society transformed into a fully National Socialist one the total state was not seen as that important anymore. Hitler actually called it un-German even.
+--- 14927295
+>>14923086 (OP)
+>>14923089
+>>14923105
+They were both fighting against ZOG
+--- 14927300
+>>14923142
+Could have just brought in a bunch of Caucasians to beat the african.
+--- 14927601
+>>14927295
+they were fighting against bedtime and for a future full of mom's chicken tendies, just like you.
+--- 14927733
+>>14923339
+>IIRC Fascist Italy was the first country to recognize USSR sovereignty.
+Not the first. One of the first countries though, but preceded by some of the countries that broke from the Russian Empire during the revolution like the Baltic states and Finland. Also the Weimar Republic and Turkey. Then Italy.
+
+>>14925143
+Marxist communism was historically pretty critical of "humanism" but it has also been described alternatively as a humanist religion. The ideology being that if you free people from unemployment and poverty and ill-health then you can improve human beings in an all-around way. A bit like the Federation in Star Trek. It's interesting to look at contemporary Russian stuff that is either inspired by it or is trying to advocate for it since it's part of their history and I think some of those guys "get it" more at least as a feeling. This one is interesting because it takes a dump on right-wing populists such as Trump, as well as Putin and cites his interest in a Russian fascist thinker:
+
+https://youtu.be/-tck6snU_MA?t=440 [Embed]
+--- 14927795
+>>14927132
+Ah yes the famously free, peaceful prosperous and well fed people of Africa who were so much well off before colonialism.
+--- 14927803
+>>14923086 (OP)
+/pol/ has caused so much brainrot after 2016 that it’s either red vs blue or white vs jew.
+--- 14927822
+>>14923529
+That's why it is funny, conservatives in that era were pretty firm believers in Social Darwinism. It was in vogue everywhere across Europe at the time. It's just plain wrong to say they weren't social darwinists.
+--- 14927835
+>>14923086 (OP)
+The communists explicitly rejected darwinism.
+--- 14927851
+>>14923151
+Stalin hated Jews explicitly. Marx hated Jews implicitly. 
+Lenin probably didn't know he was Jewish by fractional heritage.
+--- 14927854
+>>14923106
+>bans interracial boxing in 1911
+
+Is he talking about on naval ships? Cause otherwise he didn't have that power.
+--- 14927862
+>>14927236
+Hitler had a lot of luck early on based on his commands, but generally wasn't a particularly brilliant strategic commander. 
+Generally he was able to make use of the extremely well polished German war machine with his aggressive commanding style, but he was relatively carried by his tools. Him being willing to be aggressive at all fronts did bring great successes due to making use of all the advantages in arms and training the Germans had built up, but once there was more parity between Germany and its enemies, he didn't display much brilliance. 
+
+He was clearly not incompetent, but wasn't some genius just the same.

his/14923448.txt

@@ -12,3 +12,38 @@ And when you live day-to-day, at one point, the thoughts of "fuck this shit" wil
 >>14923448 (OP)
 No idea desu, only way I could see it is if you are in a lot of physical pain and there is no other option, so basically what mercy killing would be. 
 Beyond that I don't get it.
+--- 14923933
+>>14923448 (OP)
+Why not?
+--- 14924003
+>>14923448 (OP)
+https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/19/the-future-of-life-on-earth-depends-on-curbing-overpopulation
+to reduce earth's overpopulation
+--- 14924291
+>>14923448 (OP)
+life is not a prison
+you are always free to go
+--- 14924468
+>>14923448 (OP)
+As someone who was genuinely suicidal, the biggest motivator for me was losing my reason to live combined with the idea that no one will ever love me. 
+
+Basically, suicidal people view themselves as worthless so they take their own lives to save themselves from the shame, and pain that accompanies it. Japanese figures killed themselves because they felt ashamed and worthless after losing a battle. Basically if someone has no purpose, goal, or feelings of worth they'll off themselves.
+
+For some people their purpose are their kids and them dying or being taken away drives them to suicide. For others, its their work, and having it all gone or destroyed drives them to suicide (think the great depression, lots of suicides over losing money.)
+
+Of course, there are suicides done out of sacrifice and honor but those are less common.
+--- 14924477
+>>14924468
+Only reason I haven’t killed myself yet is because I know it would destroy my family for a while at least. But I can’t last too much longer. And living solely to make some other people feel better when you’re miserable constantly is pointless.
+--- 14925421
+>>14924477
+cowboy up
+--- 14925438
+>>14924003
+>a magical force signals we are overpopulated and it is time to kill ourselves
+>am I a deep intellectual yet
+--- 14925723
+>>14923448 (OP)
+Life is nigger shit
+--- 14928071
+Too scared to face reality

his/14923516.txt

@@ -79,3 +79,39 @@ I'll consider one more if you concede that the last one fails to show a contradi
 >>14923582
 >"I'll listen to you if you agree with me!" 
 I won't agree with you because you're wrong, Dirk. Read a Bible for yourself sometime
+--- 14924082
+>>14923561
+I said post two. Christ I Kd can’t even follow orders.
+--- 14924098
+>>14923516 (OP)
+More like how do we explain it to you lot. For all the talk we have about trans people this is more or less the point we're trying to make: that gender is a social construct and not really real.
+I myself am a gender abolitionist. But, in truth on top of gender being a social construct, it's also a social phenomenon that'll be difficult to dislodge from the zeitgeist.
+Really, just recognizing that there is no problem with being trans would be a good step in the right direction for your purpose.
+--- 14924099
+>>14923516 (OP)
+context
+--- 14924160
+>>14924098
+Gender isn’t real but sex is.
+
+You can dress up and act as a woman if you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that you are biologically male.
+--- 14924229
+>>14923516 (OP)
+It's about rank.
+--- 14924235
+>>14923550
+>The Bible contradicts itself constantly
+https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TXRZs52bpnVfiPM9TD_Ukfo
+Wrong
+--- 14925673
+>>14923516 (OP)
+he pointed to a corresponding listener in the crowd when saying these
+--- 14925680
+>>14923530
+/thread
+--- 14928034
+>>14923516 (OP)
+Conservatives don’t want to admit that God is genderless. Their entire belief system is a bastardized version of God’s Truth. Don’t tell them about eunuchs and Jesus’ virginity.
+--- 14928108
+>>14923540
+There was no "third gender" universally found in all cultures, nor are there "pagan cultures". You might as well say "non-Jewish cultures", it has the same amount of specificity and weight.

his/14923538.txt

@@ -1,3 +1,56 @@
 -----
 --- 14923538
 What is idol worship on a psychological level?
+--- 14923749
+>>14923538 (OP)
+Believing a statue or pictograph is literally an extension of a saint or deity and thus treating it as if it were a person by giving it gifts, sacrifices, etc.
+--- 14923767
+>>14923538 (OP)
+An attempt to give form to the formless.
+--- 14924013
+>>14923538 (OP)
+Worshipping the human imagination and it's psyche
+--- 14924335
+Thinking a god inhabits a statue.
+Not everybody using a statue for worship commits idolatry.
+--- 14924358
+>>14923538 (OP)
+The idea is that God is omnipresent so he can simply be worshipped by hailing a tree, a rock or a statue
+--- 14924394
+>>14923538 (OP)
+the attempt to find the meaning of seemingly unexplainable things, so to reduce uncertainty and ambiguity
+--- 14924407
+The way I see it, there's two types of idolatry.
+1. The idol as a conduit to the God or figure. Similar to how Catholics pray to statues of Mary or saints 
+2. The idol as an avatar of the God, in this case you're literally speaking to the God when you pray to the idol. This was more common in ancient times, I think the Babylonians saw their idols as real, and of course the old testament seems to imply that the Semitic pagans saw their idols as real.
+--- 14924452
+>>14924407
+>Similar to how Catholics pray to statues of Mary or saints
+Oh fucking retarded proddies. Catholics pray at statues for the same reason you have mass in church instead of everywhere else.
+--- 14924474
+>>14924452
+Mary veneration looks pretty much the same as any Hindu temple. Adherents even put money and gifts on the statue just like you see in Voodoo. I've traveled to Latin America, they even worship the churches themselves, falling in front of the door and kissing the wood.
+--- 14924711
+>>14924474
+>I've traveled to Latin America and in spite of catholics always complaining that they're fucking pagans putting a coat of christianity over native cults I'm gonna pretend that's straight from the catechism
+Fucking proddies. You do realize that sudacas of all christian denominations do that shit right?
+The locals don't give a fuck about christian theology, regardless of whether they go to a catholic, evangelical or orthodox church.
+--- 14924732
+Idolatry is disgusting
+--- 14925608
+>>14924474
+It's also more common in certain Roman Catholic groups than others.
+
+Slovaks might not because of their Hus neighbors in Czechland, or their Reformed neighbors in Hungary.
+
+But another culture like Cubans, Mary statues are everywhere in a Miami cemetery.
+--- 14926762
+>>14924732
+>islam
+>idolatry
+found the retard
+--- 14927434
+Society puts a lot of contradictory ideas in people's heads and they have to project those ideas on contradictory symbols to remain sane on the long run.
+--- 14927444
+>>14923538 (OP)
+Making God more personal that's all.

his/14923606.txt

@@ -63,3 +63,207 @@ Aeon means age as much as "world". Or a zeitgeist, if you will, which is both an
 >Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, “These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”
 >So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”-Luke 21:5-7
 >Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.-verse 32
+--- 14923722
+>>14923606 (OP)
+i'm undecided on the issue but i think there's something to be said for preterism
+--- 14923726
+>>14923606 (OP)
+Well this quote occurs before his crucifixion and resurrection, so perhaps he was simply alluding to that?
+--- 14923742
+>>14923726
+But that was very close , most of the crowd would have been alive
+--- 14923764
+>>14923742
+Sure but only some of the crowd do actually see him.
+--- 14923924
+God doesn't say anything to the people in vain.
+--- 14923984
+>>14923618
+This
+--- 14924155
+>>14923606 (OP)
+Happened like a few days later.
+It was when a few of the apostles were spazzing out and were like "we'll build one tent for moses, one for you etc"
+--- 14924176
+>>14923693
+>plain sentence
+>yeah but akchoally when jesus said "some who are standing here will not taste death" he meant that - in 1,000 years...
+Keep coping bro
+--- 14924470
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnNJXMkwx4w [Embed]
+Watch this.
+--- 14924505
+>>14923606 (OP)
+>NO BRO, HE MEANT THAT, BUT DIDNT MEAN THAT
+Its a load of shit. Its entertaining watching Christians try and jump through hoops to entertain this idea.
+--- 14924534
+>>14923614
+>Immortal Jew 
+Grim.
+--- 14924574
+>>14924534
+>Grim.
+So you believe that the human sacrifice of Rabbi thousands of years ago has absolved you of your wrongdoings? Oh and that Jew rabbi was also God in human form?
+LOL
+--- 14924596
+>>14923606 (OP)
+Christ's kingdom, the Church, was already well established before the deaths of the apostles and they were alive to see the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem. In Paul's time, the Church of Rome was famous in the entire world.
+--- 14924603
+>>14923691
+>It's in several of the gospels but mark was plausibly prior to 70ad
+>Not that the time of writing matters so much as the time Jesus said it
+I'm thinking if the text prophesized something that happened in 70AD, and we're not really sure if it was written before or after 
+Maybe people writing the text (after 70AD) is putting words to Jesus' mouth, is the more probable explanation. Rather than the text being a recording of an actual prophecy.
+--- 14924874
+>>14924603
+Big presuppositions there
+--- 14924906
+I’m not even going to check first, but I guarantee they just pretend it doesn’t say what it says, and pretend the words don’t actually mean what they say. That’s what they always do when the Bible is wrong
+--- 14924922
+>>14924906
+Read through the thread, nailed it
+--- 14925135
+>>14923606 (OP)
+Refers to the Resurrection and Ascension, not the actual Apocalypse
+--- 14925189
+>>14924922
+You did not comprehend what you read
+--- 14925377
+>>14925135
+The resurrection would happen not too long after this speech, everyone from that crowd would still be alive
+--- 14925379
+All of the Bible is metaphorical and not to be taken seriously. It's philosophy for dummies. Jesus was the son of God because dummies wouldn't listen to a sagely philosopher.
+--- 14925564
+>>14925377
+but they wouldn't necessarily have been present to speak to the resurrected Jesus or to have witnessed his ascension to heaven (literally, the Son of Man coming in his kingdom)
+--- 14925572
+>>14923618
+>70 AD
+--- 14925579
+>>14924874
+What, that magic is rarer than people writing stories?
+You too is committed to this belief, I think
+--- 14925582
+Why you even think Jesus spoke those words is beyond me
+--- 14925586
+>>14925579
+Yes unironically
+Your view that a retroactive attribution is more probable than a prophecy in this case is nothing more than a presupposition
+
+I do appreciate the admission that the statement fits neatly with the fall of Jerusalem
+--- 14925594
+Atheists have been BTFO'd so many times on this here that I have to conclude it's intellectual dishonesty at this point
+--- 14925597
+>>14925579
+Yes the arbitrary dismissal of the existence of God and the supernatural in the presence of evidence is incredibly presuppositional.
+--- 14925621
+>>14923606 (OP)
+Jesus and Mary were assumed into heaven and both are still considered alive today. Maybe others too, but the Faith has less to say on them.
+--- 14925780
+>>14925586
+>>14925597
+In any other case than Christianity I think you would agree with me
+That if we got a text with uncertain dating, that makes an extraordinary prediction/prophecy. It's more probable that it was made up after the fact, that there was something supernatural involved 
+
+There's also the fact that the people who compiled the Bible and decided what was canon, wouldn't want to keep books with outright mistakes in them.
+Bible has been curated, I think this makes it less remarkable that there are fulfilled prophecies that occurred in the past, they wouldn't keep mistaken ones in.
+>the statement fits neatly with the fall of Jerusalem
+I myself don't think that's obvious at all, from a plain reading of the text. But I know this is the standard interpretation.
+I'm curious what the people who canonized the Bible thought about it, I can't imagine they would have kept it in if they went with a surface level reading of the text. 
+
+I am being consistent. You are the ones who make an exception with Christianity
+
+I am open to the possibility of the supernatural existing, it's just not going to be on the top of my list of most probable explanations. 
+People make stuff up all the time, I have yet to see a miracle. They are supposed to be extraordinary rare, why would you even go to them for an explanation, even if you believed they can happened?
+--- 14925937
+>>14925780
+>It's more probable that it was made up after the fact, that there was something supernatural involved 
+Why? What makes it "more probable"? Under what circumstances would it be less probable? I think what you actually mean is that you are absolutely denying the supernatural, and using "probability" as a shroud to disguise that. If we can lay aside the presupposition of naturalism for a moment and assume this is what it claims to be, then this is incredible evidence of God and prophecy. But given that any and all miracles and prophecies are dismissed out of hand a priori on the basis that "those things just don't happen", you have a standard whereby evidence supporting their existence is prohibited from existing. There is no conceivable miracle or prophecy which could not be dismissed in the very same way even if you were the personal witness of it. Your argument is entirely circular and I reject it. You don't believe in prophecy, but I do believe it, so I don't have your problem.
+Now let's even grant you the arbitrarily derived late date of the gospel: why would the text being written after the events described mean the prophecy is inauthentic? It is not the gospel making the prophecy after all, but the Lord Jesus, speaking decades before hand. What is the relationship between the year the record was written and its historical accuracy? The only real relationship I can say is between your prejudice against God, and your conclusion there's no God here.
+--- 14925938
+>>14925564
+That's not what he said though, he said that some among the listeners of his speech would still be alive; why imply decades when it would happen so soon?
+--- 14925942
+>>14925780
+>the people who compiled the Bible and decided what was canon
+This is historical fiction. Nobody ever "decided what was canon".
+>I myself don't think that's obvious at all
+Then your argument against its authenticity is even less valid because even naturalistic presuppositions won't give you it
+>I am being consistent. You are the ones who make an exception with Christianity
+No, you are being circular and prejudicial.
+>I am open to the possibility of the supernatural existing
+Self-evidently false as has been demonstrated 
+>why would you even go to them for an explanation
+Because I believe in God and I don't feel the need to deny what's right in front of me out of prejudice against Him. Miracles are extraordinary, they are not non-existent. If God tells me He has done something, I do not doubt Him.
+--- 14925945
+>>14925582
+That's irrelevant, christianity is based on the gospels of which pic in op is a part
+--- 14925999
+>>14925937
+The lottery draw is at 18:00
+I wrote down down a string of numbers at an unknown time, you got some reasons to believe it was before 18:00. But you are not sure. My numbers are the lottery numbers.
+What is most likely, that I wrote them down after the lottery, or, that I wrote them down before and can know the future by supernatural means?
+--- 14926009
+>>14925999
+Are you God?
+--- 14926028
+>>14923606 (OP)
+Some are still alive, as vampires.
+--- 14926052
+>>14925942
+Do you have some particular problem with induction? 
+I am utilizing my background knowledge. Nowhere in that knowledge is seeing a miracle occurring. Just people telling stories about them, and never having a camera available for some reason.
+
+We got a 2000 year old text, with at least two possible explanations.
+Miracle, or, made up
+People make up stories all the time. You are also committed to this belief. 
+Miracles are extremely rare. You are also committed to this belief. 
+
+Why do you choose the extremely rare explanation, instead of the one you know happens all the time?
+--- 14926058
+>>14925945
+The problem goes away if you think the Bible got some true things in it, and some false things.
+--- 14926073
+>>14926009
+Why are you asking me this?
+If you presuppose that the Bible is the true word of God, there is nothing to explain away, the text is true.
+
+This is only of concern IF, if, if, if, the Bible is not the true word of God.
+--- 14926083
+>>14926052
+>Why do you choose the extremely rare explanation, instead of the one you know happens all the time?
+He's always going to reply the same thing. "Cuz God said it". Christians like him already have the answer to literally every question.
+--- 14926099
+>>14926052
+>Do you have some particular problem with induction? 
+I do have a problem with a naturalist using it because it's inconsistent with their worldview which cannot justify natural laws
+>Nowhere in that knowledge is seeing a miracle occurring
+What about the miracles of Jesus?
+>those never happened
+How do you know they never happened?
+>those things just don't happen
+How do you know those things just don't happen?
+>Nowhere in that knowledge is seeing a miracle occurring
+
+>never having a camera available for some reason
+Yeah, I wonder why there's no footage of these ancient events
+>Why do you choose the extremely rare explanation, instead of the one you know happens all the time?
+Because I do not share your prejudice against God. Why is it incredible that God knows the future?
+--- 14926139
+>>14926099
+A God may very well exist and know the future.
+We are talking about a 2000 year old piece of text, not a God.
+
+Some guy could've lived died and came back from the dead 2000 years ago, yet the Bible be mistaken about many other things.
+--- 14926173
+>>14925780
+It's mainstream but partial preterism is not the standard interpretation
+--- 14926191
+>>14926173
+Really, what's the mainstream view, that Jesus was mistaken? 2000YO Jewish vampires?
+--- 14926217
+>>14926191
+I think it's to allegorize the whole thing but maybe that's dispensational culture speaking
+--- 14926398
+>>14923672
+>reading comprehension

his/14923848.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,265 @@
+-----
+--- 14923848
+Who were the good guys in the spanish civil war?
+--- 14923889
+Unironically PCE. The only faction with a plan in mind that didn't involve stealing everything (PSOE), killing half of the country (Mola), betraying everyone around you (Franco) or destroying everything (CNT).
+--- 14923891
+Liberals should have allied with the Catholics/conservatives instead of with the communists
+--- 14923895
+Also the syndicalist revolution, while based and cool and everything, was really stupid considering the context of a literal foreign invasion
+--- 14923901
+>good guys
+
+No such thing. There's only the side you support and their chance at winning.
+--- 14924032
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Not the leftists. Never the leftists.
+--- 14924035
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Nobody but throne and altar conservatives are better than communists.
+--- 14924367
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Nobody.
+Commies were mostly anarchistshits, and Franco was ok with leveling whole cities and roads with civilians with his fleet.
+--- 14924389
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Carlists
+--- 14924428
+>>14924035
+They absolutely weren't. They treated their own citizens like WH40K techno barbarians. If Queipo de Llano or Franco were near your town, you could expect horror movie tier atrocities for the "crime" of having asked a salary raise to your boss three years ago, or failing to show up in church.
+t. Spaniard with both sides of the family brutalized by one or another faction
+--- 14924433
+>>14923848 (OP)
+>PCE
+The people who raped and murdered nuns and desecrated graves for kicks turning literally every catholic in europe and half of spain into unashamed Franco sympathizers?
+--- 14924463
+>>14924433
+You're thinking about CNT/FAI. PCE were autistically obsessed with two things: 1) avoiding to alienate undecided workers and petite bourgeoisie, 2) giving control of the Spanish state to Stalin. CNT/FAI were the "Spanish Revolution now" spastics you're talking about, the Anarchists who couldn't wait to collectivise all property (including convenience stores and barber shops) and destroy all "monuments to the oppressors" like opera houses or cathedrals. Just because 4chan seethes about "the commies" doesn't mean that all Republican factions, or even all radical violent Republican factions, were in fact Communists. Orwell hated Communists madly because they made it a priority to smash all anti-Stalinists like his POUM buddies. 
+Of course if you believe that anyone more secular and collectivist than Obama is "a Communist", I doubt you're qualified to understand the Spanish civil war.
+--- 14924465
+>>14923848 (OP)
+They were all Spanish, therefore nobody was Good 
+>t. Portugal
+--- 14924475
+>>14924428
+Give up, Pedro. Every thread about the Spanish Civil War is populated by foreigners who only care about how it legitimizes their favorite team or not 
+>t. Brazilian whose great-grandpa was in the Nationalist army
+--- 14924484
+>>14924465
+Isn’t Portugal basically just a mini Spain, like Austria is to Germany?
+--- 14924495
+>>14924463
+>Actually it wasn't us it was all the bad lefties
+Suuuure. This totally isn't revisionism after PCE exiles was allowed back into Spain.
+--- 14924563
+>>14924465
+>he doesn't know about the Viriatos
+--- 14924579
+>>14924484
+It's a similar country, but no it's not "mini-Spain", it's more like comparing Czechs to Poles or comparing Denmark to Sweden.
+Portuguese is a distinct language from Spanish. Spanish speakers themselves can tell you that spoken Portuguese is incomprehensible to them.
+--- 14924610
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Neither
+--- 14924738
+>>14924484
+nah it's like comparing the Netherlands to Germany
+--- 14924757
+>>14923848 (OP)
+If you believe the Nationalists were wrong for rising up, bear in mind the Leftists did the same thing some years earlier.
+--- 14924772
+What is with this board and talking about shitty mexican wars from third world shitholes no one cares about?
+How many spics is here?
+Whats next? Congo tribal wars?
+--- 14924779
+>>14923848 (OP)
+>good guys 
+falangists 
+>ok guys
+carlists
+>still better than the commies 
+franco 
+>had some legit grievances
+basque separatists 
+>communist scum
+popular front 
+>retards who exist to be betrayed by commies
+CNT FAI
+>opportunist scum 
+ussr 
+catalonia
+--- 14924780
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Dirlewanger
+--- 14924783
+>>14924389
+Love Carl
+--- 14924785
+>>14924780
+I forgot that he was in that war as well. Man the guy really loved war, didn't he?
+--- 14924807
+>>14924772
+>How many spics is here 
+>Is here 
+You might wanna go back to school first KEK
+--- 14924827
+>>14924807
+I'm chinese
+--- 14924833
+>>14923848 (OP)
+The revolutionary nationalists.
+Republicans were counter-revolutionary scum.
+--- 14924841
+>>14924484
+It's like a big Galicia
+--- 14924849
+>>14924827
+中國其實是第三世界國家,不是西班牙。
+--- 14924933
+>>14923848 (OP)
+The Basques
+--- 14925054
+>>14924933
+Basque Carlists like Solchaga?
+Basque Nationalists like Aguirre?
+Basque Socialists like Rubial?
+Basque Anarchists like Pérez Garmendia?
+Basque Communists like Carro?
+Basque Monarchists like Goicoechea?
+Basque Republicans like Vidal Munárriz?
+Basque Traditionalists like Múgica?
+What Basques, anon?
+--- 14925076
+>>14925054
+Basque nationalists, naturally.
+--- 14925079
+>>14924428
+--- 14925319
+>>14924475
+>>14924428
+I'm Spanish, also had family in both sides, even some changed side and I state that Franco was right even merciful
+--- 14925656
+>>14924463
+--- 14925677
+>>14924757
+Leftists, you want to say right wing military. (1932)
+--- 14925691
+>>14923889
+Mola and primo de rivera were le based though
+--- 14925703
+>>14925677
+>right wing military.
+isnt Catholicism essentially monarchist? Why Spanish right wingers were republican?
+--- 14925715
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Commies
+>give all spanish gold reserves to russians in exchange for nothing
+>tell mussolini that they would give him balearic islands in exchange of his neutrality
+>desecrate churches and start hunt of conservatives
+>failed coup in 1934
+>too retarded that started to fight each others
+>supported with money of international banks
+>degenerated who fucked at streets and brought whores to the frontline
+
+Chuds
+>they let the king and cousin de rivera go in 1929 to satisfy the socialists and avoid war
+>good christians
+>they loved their country
+>they endured political persecution by the communists for almost a decade
+>one united front
+>they modernized and industrialized Spain even with a North Korea tier international blockade
+>They made Spain the eighth world economic power
+>overall, they destroyed communist scumbag
+--- 14925726
+>>14925677
+Sanjurjos coup was quite pathetic compared to the Asturian revolution or the July coup
+--- 14925743
+>>14923848 (OP)
+
+Franco by virtue of him being the only person who could have prevented Spain from being dragged into the Second World War.
+
+>Republicans win
+
+Spain gets Blitzed by Nazi Germany during Case Red, the Holocaust and other shenanigans get extended into Spain, Gibraltar is at very real risk of falling.
+
+>any Nationalists besides Franco win
+
+Spain throws its hat in with the Axis Powers and suffers the consequences of inevitable defeat just as Hungary and Romania did.
+--- 14925750
+>>14925743
+>all nationalists besides franco were falangists
+t. retard
+--- 14925768
+>>14923848 (OP)
+the moroccan lads
+--- 14925793
+>>14925750
+No, I think first Anon has a good point. Spain had two obvious options, be conquered by Nazis, and actual Spanish Nazis allies would have unchecked power, or join the Nazis and maybe form a proper Fascist government and maybe have some say in affairs but be aligned with Germany in foreign affairs and likely participate in WW2 on their side. 
+Franco’s ability to dodge both those most likely outcomes speaks well of his realpolitik acumen.
+--- 14925803
+>>14923848 (OP)
+The legitimate state and government of the Second Republic and its representatives
+--- 14925851
+>>14925793
+The Nazis wouldn't have bothered to invade if the Carlists or more moderate nationalists (e.g. Mola or Cabanellas) were in charge, as doing so would have just overextended their resources even more and for little gain, and neither would those guys be interested in joining the Axis.
+Also, I have personally never been convinced that Francos offer to join the war in exchange for French territories wasn't genuine.
+--- 14925855
+>>14923848 (OP)
+There are no good Spaniards.
+--- 14925876
+>>14924579
+Portuguese is as incomprehensible as Gallician or Catalan is. Portugal is mini spain.
+--- 14925891
+>>14924484
+>isn’t Portugal “spanish” like Spain the same way Austria is “german” like Germany
+no, Austria (Osterreich) is german, Portugal is portuguese…
+--- 14925896
+>>14925876
+>t. kingdom of “”””””””””””spain””””””””” larper claiming portugal is as different from galicia as ireland is to england
+lol
+--- 14926128
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Franco
+--- 14926436
+>>14925803
+Even in 1934.
+--- 14926453
+>>14925803
+It ceased to be legitimate when it ceased to follow its own laws.
+--- 14926473
+>>14923848 (OP)
+EL TORO
+--- 14926475
+>>14926436
+yes, even in 1934
+
+>>14926453
+such as?
+--- 14926503
+>>14926475
+Such as making murder, arson, theft, assault, rape, and pretty much every crime in the book, de facto legal as long as the victim was right-wing, Catholic, and/or upper class.
+--- 14926950
+>>14925891
+portugal is spain
+--- 14926954
+>>14926503
+based
+--- 14926972
+>>14926954
+If you think it's based, then don't pretend that the government had any legitimacy.
+--- 14927060
+>>14926954
+They didn't said that back when Franco's army buckbroke them out of this world in Madrid and the battle of Ebro river
+--- 14927173
+>>14925743
+Nothing bad happened to Romania or Hungary besides the inevitable results of "USSR occupation", and Spain obviously wouldn't have been subjected to USSR occupation. They'd probably just be a shittier Italy and switch sides as soon as the opportunity arose, and have to host the US army for a few years.
+It would be funny to see a 1947 Spanish Miracle when that first Marshall Plan check got cashed
+--- 14927183
+>>14923848 (OP)
+Army of Africa who raped their away across Spain and singlehandedly restored Al-Andalus (genetically speaking)
+--- 14927437
+>>14925891
+Spain is iberian and so is Portugal.
+--- 14928134
+>>14924433
+There were worse people raping in the war

his/14923908.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,231 @@
+-----
+--- 14923908
+As a based Orthobro, I am intensely creeped out by how Protestants treat the Bible. Almost as the piece of text itself is the incarnation of God.
+--- 14923928
+>>14923908 (OP)
+I appreciate the depth that many go into it, and learn much from them, but they do miss out on a wider world of the Church and how long the Holy Spirit has been working. The Protestant mindset has been completely memed into thinking that Christ couldn't run his Church for a thousand years.. and then out of a blue, some gluttonous German knew all, and was greater than every saint and bishop and even every Ecumenical Council. In his protest of the pope of Rome, he, ironically, proclaimed himself something even more mindblowing than the Pope himself. For not even the Pope scoffs at the Ecumenical Councils.
+--- 14923946
+>>14923928
+I find it interesting how much protestantism is similar to Islam in many ways. I don't think they are trying to mimick Islam but it's some kind of convergent evolution. They are both kind of minimalist versions of Christianity. They both have a magical book, and minimal effort to convert and minimal method of worship. But less doesn't mean better. Holy tradition is real.
+--- 14923973
+>>14923908 (OP)
+same thing to islam but quran is words of allah
+--- 14924025
+>>14923973
+Muhammad was so uncreative he had to take ideas that had nothing to do with him or his people. He couldn't even make up new angel names. He just took the old ones everyone knew and made them say nonsense. All of which coincidentally proclaimed Muhammad as the greatest prophet of all time. He's Jim Jones circa 600 AD. Except with more cross eyed and inbred followers, who can't think any better than apes and centered the whole religion on sex.
+--- 14924036
+>>14923908 (OP)
+>Almost as the piece of text itself is the incarnation of God.
+KJV-onlyists literally believe this. They think that "And the Word was God" means the Bible
+--- 14924074
+>>14923928
+Really weak strawman. There have been proto-reformers throughout the history of the church and they have been oppressed like Christ said they would be. Many were burnt alive or their ideas of putting God's word above earthly authority scorned because they undermined the powerful. 
+
+We don't ignore church tradition. Most protestant denominations agree with the Apostles Creed. We read church fathers, and many ideas that the pope would consider heretical are found in the writings of Augustine and Tertullian. 
+
+Please tell me how Luther put himself above anyone in saying that scripture is the ultimate and final authority for the church? Ecumenical Councils, like all other earthly authority, are subject to the word. Men are fallible. God's word is not.
+--- 14924087
+>>14924036
+how do KJV-onlyists rationalise the fact that Bible was originally written in Greek, Aramaic (Peshitta) and Latin (Vetus Latina and Vulgate) and not in Queen's English?
+--- 14924090
+Orthodoxers don't seethe about "the protties", Juan
+--- 14924173
+>>14924074
+The Bible isn't a history book. All protestant arguments fail because of this basic fact, which they are not willing to accept. If you actually presuppose that the Bible is the unambiguous word of god, your argument collapses within the book of Genesis. As there are TWO accounts of creation, which cannot both be true at the same time. You might even say, that we have observed, that none are true, and both are metaphors for man becoming rational and capable of self-reflection, thus falling from the Garden of Eden (the world of non-conscience) to the world of knowledge, full of pain and hardship. If your denomination fails at this basic premise, then your belief lies not with god or the observance of his true ("an sich") creation, but with taking metaphors to guide man into a moral life literally, which obviously lead to blasphemy through justifying immoral behavior through wrong literal interpretations, which are at odds with the teachings of Christ and the 10 commandments. Examples for this are the belief in predestination. or thinking that god tells you to hate homosexuals, even though god loves all of his sheep equally and tells you to do the same. Sola scriptura Protestants fall into the same folly as fundamentalist Muslims, to think that their literal reading of the scripture, however much at odds with the basic commandments of faith it might be, are above the inalienable law of god.
+--- 14924187
+>>14924090
+Thanks for discrediting your faith by telling us, that you have nothing to say
+--- 14924203
+>>14924187
+Keep coping with the fact that actual born-and-bred Orthodoxers seethe about shit Rome did centuries ago, and not "what the heckin' L*therans*..."
+--- 14924204
+>>14923908 (OP)
+>As a based Orthobro.
+Stop right there, the cringe is unbearable.
+--- 14924281
+>>14924173
+There is no contradiction in Genesis. There is plenty written on the subject that I will not go into, but there is no contradiction or error in scripture. 
+>Examples for this are the belief in predestination.
+That shows how much you care about church fathers I guess. Just because you don't like the idea of predestination doesn't mean it's false. Even Calvin considered it a "horrible decree".
+--- 14924460
+>>14924281
+>there is no contradiction or error in scripture.
+You are either retarded or never read it.
+The earth is billions of years old, it was not made in 6 days. No snakes cannot talk. No we are not descended from just two people, we would of all been inbred and died out. Genesis 1 and 2 both contradict each other. There is no archaeological or historical evidence for anything in Exodus being true.
+Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the origins of Jesus. Jesus was from Nazareth but an elaborate fabrication had to be invented to have him being born in Bethlehem, no census took place, Quirinius was not Governor of Syria at that time. 
+The evidence is pathetic. You are a fool.
+--- 14924552
+>>14924460
+> The earth is billions of years old, it was not made in 6 days. No snakes cannot talk.
+Definitively prove any of this. Find every snake and prove that none can talk. Go back those billions of years you claim and show that the earth wasn't created in 6 days. Read The Genesis Flood.
+> Genesis 1 and 2 both contradict each other
+Already told you this is false. You can find plenty of writings on how they don't. Not doing your research for you.
+> There is no archaeological or historical evidence for anything in Exodus being true.
+Yes there is.
+> Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the origins of Jesus. Jesus was from Nazareth but an elaborate fabrication had to be invented to have him being born in Bethlehem, no census took place, Quirinius was not Governor of Syria at that time. 
+We have evidence that people were required to return to their place of birth for some censuses. There are plenty of plausible explanations for the census dating question. Argumentum ex silentio does not disprove Luke's account.
+--- 14925554
+>>14923908 (OP)
+Protestants are Christian Pharisees, picrel is something my “Calvinist” friend unironically sent to me once
+
+>>14924074
+>Ecumenical Councils, like all other earthly authority, are subject to the word. Men are fallible. God's word is not.
+Ecumenical councils are heavenly authority, and yes they are subject to the Word, just as you are subject to them (only if you want to be truly orthodox rather than go your own way)
+--- 14925614
+>>14924552
+>Find every snake and prove that none can talk
+Holy fuck Jews made whites retarded through their ideas
+--- 14925889
+>>14925554
+What does that have to do with him being a Calvinist?
+--- 14925898
+As an atheist I find Orthodox to be vile superstition and am 100% glad it is dying out along with the rest of Cuckstianity.
+--- 14925903
+>>14925554
+I am subject to the Word alone. Any temporal body that contradicts the Word is to be disregarded.
+--- 14925914
+>>14924087
+>KJV onlyists caring about rationality 
+LOL. LMAO even.
+--- 14925924
+Religion is a gay, retarded scam. You faggots are devolving into subhuman tier because you want to OWN DA LIBRULS!!!!!
+--- 14925936
+>>14925898
+>>14925924
+nietzsche is dead and odin isn't real, larpagan faggots
+--- 14925954
+>>14923946
+Salafi islam sure...
+But as someone of mixed catholic/muslim background from each parent, I find the symmetry stunning. The way an average muslim from a village carries on is not too different from the average catholic villager; its why both sides of my family get along so well at holidays. Its quite nice, you only encounter magic book tier idiots when you get to proties, wahhabis, mormons or other degenerate sects who venerate the grammar and autistic detail of MESSAGE ITSELF over the AUTHOR OF THE MESSAGE (god). But what do I know, I am merely a humble immigrants son
+--- 14925958
+>>14925954
+Is your mom the white one or the dad?
+--- 14926014
+>>14925958
+neither are white, dad is a muslim, i study both religions like the syncretic villager i am in spirit
+--- 14926027
+>>14924087
+>KJV onlyists
+>rationalize 
+They don't, most of them believe that shit cause they are Anglo-Saxon supremacists that believe only anglophones can be saved, they'll say some shit about how the Reina Valera version is God in Spanish but they don't believe that, to then God only speaks in Shakespearean English
+--- 14926247
+>>14925889
+Sola scriptura
+
+>>14925903
+>Any temporal body that contradicts the Word is to be disregarded
+Was Christ not temporal? Pharisees thought he contradicted scriptures too. How do the councils contradict scripture? The councils canonized scripture. And they were all agreed upon and ratified by worldwide Christendom. Then you come along like a spoiled bitch and say they don’t apply to you
+--- 14926263
+These threads are bait
+--- 14926423
+>>14926263
+Acknowledge that the pan-Christian ecumenical councils come from heaven and that you should submit to them
+--- 14926459
+>>14926423
+I'm not going to sign off on some bizarre idea of theological submission in the mind of someone who wrote "pan-christian ecumenical"
+--- 14926478
+>>14926459
+>pan-Christian
+Just in case you forgot that these are what all of Christendom believed and affirmed until the reformers came along. Not everyone knows what it means
+--- 14927031
+>>14925954
+>>14926014
+So what's it like living in a interfaith family?
+--- 14927064
+>>14927031
+I know two sets of prayers to the same god, i learned two sets of cuisines, and I mix mexican fingerstyle magic into eastern guitar, its pretty chill. But again both sides basically are just happy the other side are moral people who have strong faith, no crazies really, its fun when everyone comes together and have some amazing discussions. Youd be surprised how similar pakistani and mexican folklore is for instance.
+--- 14927113
+>>14925898
+Atheism only has a 20% retention rate. It doesn't last long-term.
+--- 14927172
+>>14926247
+And Christ backed up his word. He fulfilled a mountain of prophecy and literally rose from the dead. Which ecumenical council rose from the dead? Which one fulfilled all the messianic prophecies? 
+
+Do you accept Second and Third Ephesus? What about Hieria? Your myth about Complete Ecumenical Unity flies completely in the face of reality.
+--- 14927247
+>>14927172
+So your argument is, because Christ is risen, and the church has rejected certain councils, that gives you the right to dismiss them all?
+>Which ecumenical council rose from the dead? Which one fulfilled all the messianic prophecies?
+If you want to be technical, the church is the lived reality of Christ’s resurrection—so all of them
+--- 14927283
+>>14927247
+Where did I say I reject Nicaea, Constantinople, Ephesus or Chalcedon? But it is impossible to view these councils, even if what they say is true, as some kind of authority equal to scripture and they must be tested against it. Because the church later rejected certain councils, rival groups often held separate councils, etc., it is clear that there isn't some consensus as you have claimed.
+--- 14927326
+>>14927283
+Ecumenical Councils are events whereby the bishops of the Church gather to discern and clarify the teachings of the Scriptures in response to various theological controversies and challenges that arise within the Church. They don’t have to be holy writ or “on the level of scripture” to be binding on the faith. They are simply what the Church has agreed that one needs to believe in order to be a Christian as opposed to a scripture-twisting heretic. The Bible says the Spirit is guiding God’s people even today and that the Church herself is the truth’s bulwark against heresies so it should not surprise you that you would have something like this.
+--- 14927341
+>>14923908 (OP)
+>Bible says that Christ is the Logos, a greek philosophical term, and that the Logos became flesh
+>King James version translates Logos as "Word"
+millions of English speaking Christians then think that the passage is talking about the bible or something
+--- 14927357
+>>14927326
+I accept the first four's doctrines. However, they are still ultimately subject to scripture, as all church tradition. God guides the church through His word.
+--- 14927386
+>>14927357
+every ecumenical council uses scriptures to confirm their doctrine. what makes the first four's usage of scripture more valid than the latter? it's ultimately about WHO has the authority given by God to correctly determine the meaning behind scripture at the end of the day
+--- 14927387
+>>14927357
+>However, they are still ultimately subject to scripture
+Can you explain what exactly that means? Does it mean “they are liable to be judged by me based on what I find in scripture”? Because if that’s what it means, it hardly sounds like a sound principle to me. Christianity is more than just you, your Bible, and God—you have all the rest of Christ’s true followers and the whole church that you need to be on the same page with to know for sure that you’re right with God.
+--- 14927418
+>>14927387
+the essence of Protestantism is rejecting the notion that God left behind a visible Church with authority (Catholics and Orthodox both believe in the authority but interpret it differently) and also that the individual can discern for themselves what is true down to the individual doctrine
+--- 14927435
+>>14927418
+Sounds like a recipe for judgment
+--- 14927466
+>>14927435
+Charlatans twisting scripture to their own ends do not invalidate its authority. If anything, they strengthen it. The only way to repudiate such false teachers is with scripture. All churches throughout the centuries have been rife with such corruption, and in many cases they have even used the authority that church claims to have to lead believers astray. Such men are subject to the Word.
+--- 14927484
+>>14927466
+>Charlatans twisting scripture to their own ends do not invalidate its authority
+But this is what happens when the church is “subject to scripture” as opposed to being an authority in its own right. Because, you never answered the question, but does or does not “subject to scripture” mean in effect “liable to be judged by me according to what I find in scripture”? Councils being binding and a church which is binding is the direct logical consequence of 2 Peter 1:20.
+--- 14927511
+>>14927064
+>Same god
+heh...
+--- 14927558
+>>14927484
+Subject to scripture means that in each man's conscience, he should read scripture and put to test any church practice against it. It's impossible for a believer filled with the Holy Spirit to be led astray in any deadly way by scripture (see: 1 John 2:20, Acts 17:11).
+
+1 Peter 1:20 speaks to the authority of scripture and actually contradicts what you are saying.
+--- 14927592
+>>14924281
+and all those people cain meets who are conveniently leftout of the genealogical records came from...
+--- 14927737
+>>14927558
+>Subject to scripture means that in each man's conscience, he should read scripture and put to test any church practice against it
+Everyone is a pope then? Imagine getting to judge the churches of God, as opposed to having to submit to the body of Christ which is already there. Must be nice being Jewish...
+--- 14927744
+>>14927466
+hey i think scripture says X thing and then you say that scripture say Y thing. at the end of the discussion everyone has their own interpretation and it just comes down to who has the authoritative one. but who has the authority? who can we trust? anyone can use scripture to make whatever argument they want
+--- 14927758
+>>14927558
+interesting because most people who just read scriptures have widely different views from what they read. even mainstream essential doctrines like the trinity are often lost on people who just read the bible for themselves. that is why there is a massive diversity when it comes to christian denominations. is it really up to the individual?
+--- 14927771
+>>14927758
+But 1 John 2:20 tells the reader “you know the truth”, do you think John is lying?
+--- 14927787
+>>14923908 (OP)
+>Almost as the piece of text itself is the incarnation of God
+It IS bro. That's the point. Jesus is the Word incarnate. Did you miss that part?
+(Of course you didn't, I know that this is bait)
+--- 14927790
+>>14927787
+R u srs bro?
+--- 14927868
+>>14927737
+Yes, we are to weigh what any man says against what is written in scripture. Acts 17:11. Why are the Berean Jews commended for putting Paul's teachings to the test against scripture? They should just submit because they can't possibly understand the esoteric mysteries of God's Word. They should have just blindly followed the words of the magisterium.
+--- 14927901
+>>14927787
+Jesus is the Logos bro, not the fucking Bible.
+--- 14928014
+>>14927868
+Don’t go blindly, but don’t get the wrong answer either. Paul [representing the church] guides them and helped them to understand, same as the Ethiopian eunuch of Acts 8, who says “How can I understand unless someone teach me?” The Apostle Peter even writes: “His [Paul's] letters contain some things that are hard to understand”. But no, I’m sure you’ve zeroed in on the truth and are fit to judge every single church out there.
+--- 14928138
+>>14927901
+Protestants actually believe that
+--- 14928148
+>>14927771
+who is John talking to? an ecclesiastical authority at the time or you sitting there with your bible?

his/14923962.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,46 @@
+-----
+--- 14923962
+Where did the idea that geniuses/smart people are not good looking come from? Is it the influence of American 80s high school comedies where the nerd wears braces, thick glasses and has acne? I've seen many photos, paintings and images of geniuses of the past and they all seem to be mostly normal and some even good looking. Makes sense since physical appearance is the mirror of the soul therefore someone who is ugly is likely to have ugly thoughts as well. Sure, ugly nerds make good pen-pushers and members of the managerial class but they're only high-achieving when compared with bimbos and niggers from their high school, they are nowhere near the likes of Newton or Gauss. Or perhaps reverse halo effect is at play here and those geniuses weren't that attractive and were only imbued with attractiveness by posterity?
+--- 14923999
+Smart kids are often bullied in school as nerds and geeks, and this can lead to being poorly socialised and unkempt. But yeah there is no correlation between being hit with the ugly stick genetically and being smart (with the exception perhaps of some Ashkenazi Jews: maybe this is part of the reason for the stereotype you're talking about now that I think about it).
+--- 14925796
+>>14923962 (OP)
+Jews.
+--- 14925827
+>>14923962 (OP)
+you would think high IQ people would be *better* looking because maybe they just have better genes in general. Maybe there's a loose association between IQ, wealth, attractiveness, empathy, physical health, whatever.
+--- 14926209
+*blocks your path*
+--- 14926229
+>>14926209
+CIA plant
+--- 14926964
+>>14923962 (OP)
+I think unironically it's from the American media being forwarded by the kind of people that peaked in highschool
+--- 14927111
+>>14923962 (OP)
+Unironically Jews.
+It's part of the jealousy and hatred the weak and sickly Ashkenazi Jews have towards the tall and athletic Europeans. Notice how the nerds usually get a good ending in media?
+This stereotype didn't exist before Jews took over Hollywood.
+--- 14927148
+>>14926209
+This is Jim Morrison, right?
+--- 14927513
+>>14926209
+https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp90-00845r000100080005-4
+--- 14927628
+>>14923962 (OP)
+Ugly nerds like to think of themselves as genius. Reality is basically the inverse of 80's movie tropes. The big blonde athlete is the "bad guy" because those movies were written by resentful dorks. Chad and Stacy with their exceptional looks, their athletic and instinctual brilliance are the great people and achievers irl. If Newton wouldn't have been such a sperg and also grown up in our era he would have been stuffing guys like Schopenhauer into lockers and taping them shut, going to keggers in the woods with Stacy after the big game, etc.
+--- 14927632
+>>14927513
+Jim's penis is indecent?
+--- 14927848
+>>14923962 (OP)
+Fashion is a big part of attractiveness and behavior. 
+Nerds may not be ugly due to genetics, but are unattractive because they're odd and don't work to fit in with the expected appearances of their context and society.
+--- 14927960
+>>14927111
+>It's part of the jealousy and hatred the weak and sickly Ashkenazi Jews have towards the tall and athletic Europeans.
+Jews can be attractive in part because they look kinda weird. One of the most academically successful girls I knew in high school was this Asian girl who had a crush on Jason Schwartzman (Rushmore version), but he plays King Nerd in the movie, and more energetic and athletic than the others, but would lose against the jocks. Human attraction can be a strange thing.
+
+https://youtu.be/yMyh6ptegko [Embed]

his/14923989.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,34 @@
+-----
+--- 14923989
+Natasha – 10 years old
+In October of 1962, a long article criticizing Christians appeared in the Evening Kiev newspaper. My parents’ names were mentioned in it. The next day at school, my teacher Mrs. Alekseeva was telling us about cavemen, their customs, and religious practices. Suddenly she exclaimed, “Children, can you imagine that even in our day there are people who believe in God just like those cavemen did?” The kids giggled. “Science has proven that there is no God,” the teacher continued, “and progressive-minded mankind rejected all religious beliefs long ago. But occasionally even today we encounter people stupefied by religion. And such a girl is in our own class!” Mrs. Alekseeva stopped and peered at the class. Everyone was silent, waiting for what would come next. She turned to me. “Natasha Vins, come forward, stand before the class, and tell your comrades. Is it true that you believe in God?” I felt a sudden panic. Like a little animal being hunted, I wanted to hide, to become invisible. “Well? How long do we have to wait?” the teacher repeated in a stern voice.
+Slowly I walked forward and turned to face the class. Tense silence hung in the air. Quietly, almost in a whisper, I said, “Yes, I believe in God.”
+
+“What’s wrong with you?” the teacher exclaimed angrily. “Are you that ignorant? Didn’t you read what Yuri Gagarin said after he returned from his space flight? It was in all the newspapers. He did not see God anywhere! You’re in the third grade already! The Soviet State is making every effort to give its children the best education in the world, and here is the result. How shameful! Go to the principal’s office.” . . .
+--- 14924066
+>>14923989 (OP)
+>God created the heavens and the earth. Then he created the Hulkamaniacs, brother!
+--- 14925515
+>>14923989 (OP)
+She's such a cutie.
+--- 14925637
+lol I wish we had teachers like that today, would mean fewer christards
+--- 14925695
+>>14923989 (OP)
+Satanic state that crumbled on its evil and lies, good riddance.
+--- 14925712
+>>14923989 (OP)
+i wonder who ever read this and assumed anything in the Soviet press was not state agitprop or that this article was printed when Khrushchev was embarking on a major anti-religious campaign
+--- 14925735
+>>14925515
+imagine wholesome christian marriage
+--- 14925759
+>>14925637
+didn´t work, russian churches are full nowadays
+--- 14926194
+based teacher
+--- 14926213
+>>14923989 (OP)
+>Go to orbit, say there's no God
+>Go to the Moon, read from scripture and take communion on its surface
+What did [no God] mean by this?

his/14924007.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+-----
+--- 14924007
+Why did Greek and Roman ships have eyes?
+--- 14924027
+>>14924007 (OP)
+--- 14924330
+>>14924007 (OP)
+Protection against the evil eye or some other superstition
+--- 14924348
+>>14924007 (OP)
+why did modern soldiers paint their helicopter with shark mouth?
+--- 14924419
+>>14924007 (OP)
+So they could see where they're going of course.
+--- 14924456
+>>14924027
+--- 14924473
+>>14924007 (OP)
+>Why did Greek and Roman ships have eyes?
+
+So they can have depth perception duh
+How else would you hit a moving ship with a shipborn catapult
+--- 14925381
+>>14924330
+This, it's a superstition.
+Chinese junks had the same.
+
+Europeans dropped the eyes and replaced them with statues and paintings of sea myths (see all the decorations on the galleys used at Lepanto). Eventually settled on figureheads.
+Those carried us all the way into modernity.
+--- 14925432
+They probably unironically worshipped their boats as minor deities.
+--- 14925483
+>>14924330
+Wrong.
+
+It's pure aesthetics.
+--- 14925487
+>>14924348
+To ward them against the satanic sharks and other superstitious stuff.
+--- 14925604
+To see?? Dumbass.
+--- 14926937
+>>14924007 (OP)
+So the ship looks like a terrifying monster
+--- 14926940
+>>14924007 (OP)
+So they could see dumbass
+--- 14926943
+>>14925432
+They didn't
+--- 14926947
+>>14924007 (OP)
+So they could see dumbass
+--- 14926951
+>>14924007 (OP)
+Didn’t want their boats to be blind, retard.
+--- 14926959
+>>14924007 (OP)
+Fishe
+--- 14927875
+because it looked cool you subhuman
+--- 14927893
+Probably a combination of a lot of factors:
+>Religious/cultural sentiment, as in many ancient religions gods were said to inhabit bodies or water or were said bodies of water themselves
+>Aesthetic inclinations, just because it's 600BC doesn't mean people don't like looking good and riding around on/in things that look cool
+>Intimidation, because it's probably pretty frightening to have a thing that looks like a sea monster staring at you
+>Identification, makes it easier to see which ship is where and remember who's on which ship

his/14924362.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,84 @@
+-----
+--- 14924362
+Would this have just been a bigger Myanmar?
+--- 14924414
+Think South Korea during the Park Chung Hee era when it was heavily industrialising and modernising itself
+Doesn't matter. The US would still find ways to antagonize the KMT and the KMT itself would be galvanized against Russo-American influence
+--- 14924444
+Too many butterflies with USSR/Cold war dynamics.
+
+ROC Economy was already developing despite Japan (it even developed well in the south whilst the north had the civil war raging) so likely it would have less people (600-800m) but a much better GDP per capita than today. No great leap forward, no cultural revolution, no command economics. 
+
+likely means in this timeline chinese culture is far more intact, but also far more alien, meaning it doesn't make much impact on western culture. doubt there would be 'chinese anime' or anything like that.
+--- 14924504
+>>14924414
+Park Chung Hee didn't have to deal with insurgents at the level a KMT victory China would have dealt with. The PRC didn't have to deal with much insurgencies because the KMT had no popular support. But the ROC would have had a shit ton of Maoist insurgents.
+--- 14924555
+>>14924444
+VGH. What could have been...
+
+Damn commies always ruining everything
+--- 14924621
+>>14924362 (OP)
+I think it would just look like China in the 21st century. An authoritarian, capitalist regime where shit is made for cheap but with a less ambitious government.
+--- 14924630
+>>14924621
+without 30 wasted years of economomic development (1949-1979 in IRL china) it would be much further ahead in the development cycle and most places in china, especially the coast, would be western europe tier.
+--- 14925104
+>>14924504
+Depends on the timeline. Is this post japan eating shit or is this a timeline where japan never invaded? Because before the japs Chiang was close to wiping out the commies entirely. They lost a lot on the long march and Chiang’s encirclement campaigns were squeezing them into a tighter and tighter area. If the japs didn’t sperg the commies would’ve probably been wiped out
+--- 14925124
+>>14924621
+>but with a less ambitious government.
+idk about that fren, a powerful KMT would still involve themselves in irredentism. They'll probably start shit with Russia over outer Manchuria and still be the same towards Rajesh.
+
+The west will probably not care about Tibet or Xinjiang in this timeline though lmao.
+--- 14925130
+>>14924444
+>China but good
+Don't make me cry, anon.
+--- 14925167
+>>14924444
+>likely means in this timeline chinese culture is far more intact
+day 364 of waiting for plebbitbrain retards to understand that extreme totalitarian Legalism and wiping out the past IS a key tenant of Chinese culture
+--- 14925197
+>>14924630
+This. It would also probably be a much more friendlier, humane, cosmopolitan country.
+--- 14925227
+>>14924362 (OP)
+without one child policy it likely wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a demographic collapse unlike anything seen in the modern world before
+
+modern CCP China is making Japan look virile and stable
+--- 14925270
+>>14925124
+In this timeline it's likely China being capitalist and aggressive pushes India firmly into the Soviet camp. So yep, west is going to be fine with China having Tibet and keeping that border secure. Pakistan becomes more interesting 
+
+
+>>14925227
+Yeah ROC would have far less people but a healthier demographic situation, it's a lot easier to plug the whole with some migrants (they could take from South East Asia) when you have a population of 600m. Impossible with 1.4bn, the number of oldies is simply too much
+--- 14925308
+>>14925124
+A lot of these claims are basically posturing asserting that the communist bandits didn't have the authority to make territorial treaties rather than actual claims. The ROC on Taiwan even has unofficial bilateral relations with Mongolia.
+--- 14925362
+>>14925308
+>A lot of these claims are basically posturing asserting that the communist bandits didn't have the authority
+
+In our timeline.
+
+But in a KMT China where Changs didn't fuck around with internationalism and went straight to nationalism? They're gonna be pressing those.
+--- 14925734
+We live in the gayest of timelines.
+--- 14925786
+Burma with less ethnic conflict (the minorities are way smaller as a proportion of population, and therefore have less realistic ability to secede). Plus landed gentry in the countryside and a major organized crime problem. 
+Mao killed a lot of people but also swept away a lot of aspects of China that were genuinely holding the country back, and Chiang was too politically beholden to many of them to do likewise.
+--- 14926375
+>>14924444
+wouldn't it have a bigger population if there were never any famines? also nice digits
+--- 14926389
+>>14924630
+It would have dealt with much more internal divisions and strife which is worse for economic growth. The KMT was always more divided than the CPC, especially one that remains on the mainland and continues its ties to numerous regional warlords.
+--- 14926495
+Asian Brazil
+--- 14927907
+>>14925270
+Lmao Taiwan has the second lowest birth rate today after South Korea

his/14924424.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,51 @@
+-----
+--- 14924424
+>protons and neutrons use gluons to hold together in atoms 
+>spacetime itself bends under the mass of accumulated atoms 
+>electro-magnetism is not only the final ingredient keeping matter together and coalesced into large masses..
+>it organizes it into all known shapes of matter, creates compounds and complex chemistry
+>when run through circuits in specific ways it can do calculations, process data and even create sentient beings when run through the labyrinth of brain circuitry 
+>all things heavier and more complex than hydrogen were forged in the hearts of stars and blasted out into the void in supernovae 
+
+Even if it did turn out that there is no gods for sure and atheism is true, this universe is beautiful and endlessly fascinating. 
+At the most straightforward conclusion we’re still basically in a realm of magic animating forces, ourselves made up of these same phenomena. 
+It’s a shame that doesn’t get more play here.
+--- 14924461
+yeah but the laws are not determined by a super structure, ie stemming form some constraints. nobody knows why the laws are what they are
+--- 14924471
+>>14924461
+“Why” might very well be a confused human projection where we’re trying to attribute motivation to something that doesn’t have one.
+I’m not saying that’s definitely the case, I’m just saying if it were the universe would still be an incredible place.
+--- 14925461
+>>14924424 (OP)
+me likes splitting planets' moons and splitting solar systems' suns
+--- 14925480
+http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/lists/Supernovae.html
+--- 14925509
+>>14924424 (OP)
+One of the most decent post on /his/ in years
+--- 14925519
+>>14924424 (OP)
+--- 14925530
+>>14925519
+I don’t get the butthurt, truly baffling to me. Why does it make you mad man?
+--- 14925534
+>>14925509
+Thanks bro
+--- 14925663
+>>14924424 (OP)
+>this universe is beautiful and endlessly fascinating. 
+Said the ground beef in the butcher shop
+--- 14925690
+>>14924424 (OP)
+>Even if it did turn out that there is no gods for sure and atheism is true, this universe is beautiful and endlessly fascinating.
+“God” as a concept matters more than the acktheist strawman of god being physically located somewhere in the world, pulling the strings of every event to ever happen. All animals have the ability to sense the environment, and any animal with the sufficient organizational capacity would be able to learn and catalog scientific truths about the environment. Humans are different in that our intellects are abstract, and tend towards concepts as nebulous as “God.” There would be no way to experience beauty or fascination without such concepts. Not to mention that there are no conclusions in science, only recursive questioning: today it’s gluons and electromagnetism, but this paradigm will shift as we learn more about how the physical world operates. This has little bearing on how human beings operate.
+
+>>14924471
+>“Why” might very well be a confused human projection 
+This is borderline misanthropy, and it’s hypocritical that you would say a certain line of questioning is confused when the whole point of science is to ask and investigate questions about how the world works. I never understood why atheists object to groveling before the archetype of power and goodness, but they’ll do so for an empty void with bright lights and fun facts.
+
+Why can’t atheists accept that science and religion aren’t mutually exclusive?
+--- 14925763
+>>14925690
+Anyone who doesn't already agree with you will consider this to be a very uncharitable interpretation of the OP.

his/14924438.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,28 @@
+-----
+--- 14924438
+> survived hundreds of empires
+> translated into many languages
+> Alternative entertainment to YouTube, TikTok, and other social media
+--- 14924441
+What about it?
+--- 14925401
+>>14924438 (OP)
+>hundreds of empires
+It survived three empires. One died in 1912, the other one in 1917, and the last one in 1918.
+--- 14926974
+>>14924438 (OP)
+You should consider the alterations it suffered, just like what the Germans did to the Sacred Texts of the Indian Culture.
+--- 14928141
+>> 14924441
+
+It had an authors who inspired his writers to write them.
+--- 14928144
+>>14924441
+
+It had an authors who inspired his writers to write them.
+--- 14928146
+>>14925401
+
+Must have been because of all that ruckus going around in WW1. We can get older-er versions, cuz why not
+--- 14928149
+It has bestiality porn in it, but worst of all it had Hellenic additions to it. Greeks ruin everything, should destroy the entire language and all their historical artifacts and literary references. Nothing good has ever come from that savage horde that foolish sympathetics decided to call a culture.

his/14924482.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,178 @@
+-----
+--- 14924482
+It’s the Fuhrer’s birthday today.
+--- 14924514
+>>14924482 (OP)
+Happy birthday ! He’s an interesting man who reminds me of myself
+--- 14924518
+>>14924514
+are you trans, into incestual rape, a drug addict, and going to kill yourself in 10 days?
+--- 14924523
+>>14924518
+Im not a leftist, no.
+--- 14924529
+>>14924523
+well then you're nothing like hitler. good 4 u
+--- 14924537
+>>14924518
+I am into all of those things excerpt the trans part. Who says he was trans ?
+--- 14924539
+>>14924537
+he took hormones and a lot of the top ranking nazis were closet gays and crossdressers.
+--- 14924549
+>>14924539
+He took estrogen ? Did that even exist back then ? Also I am closet gay
+--- 14924558
+>>14924549
+yeah, lots of the nazis were into that stuff. he was addicted to it. it makes a lot of sense when you realize he only married his wife just before his death. he was a trans lesbian and finally accepted himself
+--- 14924562
+>>14924529
+>hitler wuz
+>source: jewish homosexuals
+--- 14924564
+>>14924562
+considering hitler was jewish... that's actually very accurate
+--- 14924570
+>>14924558
+Well I expect as much from desk jockeys, I think the actual men of war were somewhat normal tho ?
+--- 14924576
+>>14924570
+no, there are literally thousands of photos of nazis cross-dressing. most of them were at least gay
+--- 14924577
+>good, commence bombardment
+--- 14924583
+>>14924482 (OP)
+>Made jews seethe and refuted their "God chosen people" status
+>Made trannies seethe
+>Make anglos seethe 
+>Made slavs seethe
+>So based they remain seething
+How did he do it?
+--- 14924586
+>>14924576
+Damn…not my nigga meinstein… on another point what’s up with that era and crossdressing it was popular in the 20’s and men like Roosevelt and McArthur were forced to wear girl clothes as kids ?
+--- 14924593
+>>14924482 (OP)
+I thought Trump was born in June?
+--- 14924615
+>>14924518
+I’m not Hitler, so no.
+--- 14924670
+>>14924482 (OP)
+And Gabriel Tenma's birthday too! Let's post Gab!
+--- 14924742
+>>14924482 (OP)
+I kneel, king
+--- 14924768
+I kneel
+--- 14924925
+>>14924482 (OP)
+Happy birthday!
+--- 14924990
+>>14924482 (OP)
+how old is he?
+don't wanna get the wrong card.
+--- 14925078
+>>14924925
+Gem
+--- 14925177
+>>14924577
+>... right after I watch my interracial propaganda film 2nd time this day
+--- 14925217
+Happy Christmas
+--- 14925702
+>>14924482 (OP)
+--- 14925704
+Happy birthday Führer! Heil Hitler.
+--- 14925931
+>>14925217h
+ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkpStMrZ_uQ [Embed]
+--- 14926017
+>>14925931
+I hate when British people try to be funny
+--- 14926098
+>>14924482 (OP)
+HBD Mein Fuhrer!
+--- 14926112
+>>14924577
+>good, commence bombardment. First let me beg the evil capitalist west for more lend lease weapons
+--- 14926122
+>>14924670
+>>14924686
+>>14924691
+HBD Gabu!
+--- 14926148
+>>14925217
+Fucking based
+--- 14926164
+>>14926017
+Yeah, but the racist butter speaks for itself.
+--- 14926183
+>not even /pol/ is celebrating Hitler's birthday
+
+Wow, that sucks. I genuinely thought that /his/ was better than /pol/. I was wrong. Dead wrong.
+--- 14926332
+>>14924482 (OP)
+Happy birthday to the man that destroyed Germany!
+--- 14926411
+>>14924583
+--- 14926415
+>>14924593
+--- 14926424
+>>14924577
+--- 14926432
+>>14925177
+--- 14926451
+>>14924742
+You don/t have to call me "Sir"--I work for a living...
+--- 14926454
+>>14924482 (OP)
+DUDE
+WEED
+--- 14926455
+>>14924768
+no need
+--- 14926466
+>>14924925
+Bolshie groupies everywhere
+Follow your khan's bipolar gypsy concubine
+Die of “appendicitis”
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFl3Q_56QDE [Embed]
+
+>Angel
+--- 14926474
+>>14924990
+IV
+--- 14926481
+>>14925078
+Even Alexander Moritz Frey, a medic who disliked Apollo, and later became a science-fiction writer ((and fled Germany after Apollo came to power)) nonedheless wrote ov Apollo
+QUOTE WHEN PEOPLE CLAIM DHAT HE HAD BEEN A COWARD, DHAT/S NOT TRUE UNQUOTE
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRPEsRp3utc [Embed]
+
+>Yellow Lies, Golden Truths
+--- 14926535
+>>14925177
+Joseph "Queen Of Spades" Stalin
+--- 14926541
+>>14925217
+Thank You
+--- 14926549
+>>14926017
+"Thank you, £ord rat$hit, for this completely pointless state of war between two kindred Saxon nations"
+--- 14926554
+>>14926112
+--- 14926560
+>>14926332
+Hell is a triumvirate now...
+--- 14926912
+>>14924593
+You have to go back
+--- 14926985
+>>14924482 (OP)
+Happy birthday. We should do more birthday threads for historical figures.
+--- 14927370
+>>14924482 (OP)
+I love Hitler.
+--- 14928048
+>>14924577
+Unfathomably based

his/14924531.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,84 @@
+-----
+--- 14924531
+Where is JWanon? Havnt seen him in a while
+--- 14924581
+>>14924531 (OP)
+I'm not Lara, but I'm JW and an anon, does that count?
+--- 14924851
+>>14924531 (OP)
+Don't bring him back are you retarded
+--- 14926218
+>>14924531 (OP)
+>>14924581
+turn from your wicked ways heretics, the punishment is upon us
+--- 14926257
+>>14924531 (OP)
+I blew her the fuck out too many times
+--- 14926267
+>>14924531 (OP)
+hes currently in this thread >>14925623 →
+
+You can tell its him by adding a space before ?
+--- 14927521
+>>14926267
+Jehovah's Wiccans (JW) is the One True Religion.
+
+JW
+--- 14927533
+>>14926218
+>>14926257
+>>14926267
+Bide the Wiccan Laws we must: In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.
+Live and let live. Fairly take and fairly give.
+Cast the Circle thrice about to keep the evil spirits out.
+To bind the spell every time let the spell be spake in rhyme.
+Soft of eye and light of touch, Speak little, listen much.
+Deosil go by the waxing moon, chanting out the Witches' Rune.
+Widdershins go by the waning moon, chanting out the baneful tune.
+When the Lady's moon is new, kiss the hand to her, times two.
+When the moon rides at her peak, then your hearts desire seek.
+Heed the North wind's mighty gale, lock the door and drop the sail.
+When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss thee on the mouth.
+When the wind blows from the West, departed souls will have no rest.
+When the wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.
+Nine woods in the cauldron go, burn them fast and burn them slow.
+Elder be the Lady's tree, burn it not or cursed you'll be.
+When the Wheel begins to turn, let the Beltane fires burn.
+When the Wheel has turned to Yule, light the log and The Horned One rules.
+Heed ye flower, Bush and Tree, by the Lady, blessed be.
+Where the rippling waters go, cast a stone and truth you'll know.
+When ye have a true need, hearken not to others' greed.
+With a fool no season spend, lest ye be counted as his friend.
+Merry meet and merry part, bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
+Mind the Threefold Law you should, three times bad and three times good.
+When misfortune is enow, wear the blue star on thy brow.
+True in love ever be, lest thy lover's false to thee.
+Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill: An ye harm none, do what ye will.
+
+JW
+--- 14927549
+>>14927533
+I ain’t reading all that. Imma just call you a faggot and dip. Hi, faggot.
+--- 14927641
+>>14924531 (OP)
+>Havnt seen him in a while
+enjoy the silence, fool.
+--- 14927725
+>>14927641
+All honor to Her name.
+--- 14927849
+He was disfellowshipped by the Watchtower society for congregating with nonbelievers, he is now a tradcath larper
+--- 14927920
+>>14927849
+she
+--- 14927931
+>>14924531 (OP)
+Too many sata..I mean atheists around lately.
+--- 14927932
+>>14924531 (OP)
+He’s busy washing his magic undies.
+--- 14927947
+>>14927920
+this is correct
+>>14927932
+she, newbie

his/14924737.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,59 @@
+-----
+--- 14924737
+Why were white slaves so expensive compared to slaves of other races?
+--- 14924749
+>whites from georgia and circassia
+kek
+--- 14924806
+>>14924737 (OP)
+gee, i dunno.
+all races are the exact same.
+so shouldn't they cost the same?
+--- 14924813
+>>14924737 (OP)
+Because they are sex slaves, and in the opinion of people from that culture females with light skin were considered more attractive. That's all there is to it.
+--- 14925166
+>>14924737 (OP)
+Because all races are equal and anyone saying the opposite is a white supremacist
+--- 14925367
+>>14924737 (OP)
+demand
+availability
+etc
+--- 14925434
+>>14924813
+there is more to it than light skin
+--- 14925510
+>>14925434
+Who is this Hyperborean queen?
+--- 14925514
+>>14925434
+Would
+--- 14925538
+>>14924737 (OP) 
+In Andalus, a white woman cost 1000 dinars whereas a black woman cost between 10 to 30 dinars. The reasoning behind this fact was that Whites were prettier and smarter and thus had a higher value. Basically common sense.
+
+ftfm
+--- 14925777
+>>14924749
+Do they look black to you?
+--- 14926397
+>>14924737 (OP)
+More attractive. The Ottoman elite essentially turned themselves into white people by having Slavic concubines have their children in succession.
+--- 14926399
+>>14925777
+Are roaches black? Are they white? No. 
+I like churkas but considering them white means including turkrats as white and im against that
+--- 14926400
+>>14925777
+They are chiefly tawny
+--- 14926457
+>>14926400
+In the past they were white and had the features of classic greek sculpture
+--- 14926489
+>>14924813
+A white man cost more than a white woman in the Barbary slave trade
+--- 14926499
+>>14926399
+You can include them and not Turks. That's what I do. 
+This is like bitching that the Hungarians aren't white and deciding half of the Balkans aren't either.

his/14924817.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+-----
+--- 14924817
+Civilization is where wild boars
+--- 14925098
+>>14924817 (OP)
+
+Can't fast castle without 2 boars.
+--- 14925320
+>>14924817 (OP)
+Can Muslims eat boars?
+--- 14925508
+>>14924817 (OP)
+You'd think pigs and boars would have been introduced earlier into Papuan culture with how important they are to them. But not they're relatively recent as far as domestic animals go.
+--- 14926284
+>>14924817 (OP)
+iirc their invasive range is much larger these days, they're all over south america
+--- 14926384
+>>14925508
+That's the whole Pacific desu 
+I think it's just hard to raise anything bigger than a pig + fishing cultures produce a lot of food waste that pigs can consume.
+--- 14927289
+>>14924817 (OP)
+AWAY DOWN SOUTH IN DIXIE
+--- 14927379
+>>14924817 (OP)
+mesoanon...it's over...
+--- 14927382
+>>14925320
+No.
+t. former Muslim
+--- 14927489
+>>14925098
+And 4 deer
+--- 14927497
+>>14925320
+Wild boars existed before Islam
+--- 14927501
+>>14926284
+How do they do it? What kept them under control before but not now?
+--- 14927506
+>>14927382
+So if it wouldn’t be rude of me to ask, what motivated you to leave Islam? Did you join another religion, or are you irreligious now a days?
+--- 14927512
+>>14927501
+Water
+--- 14927518
+>>14927512
+No, I'm pretty sure pigs were imported there centuries ago
+--- 14927528
+>>14927518
+Here we had other wild boar like animals called pecari which were slowly replaced over time by pigs. Boars didn't become widespread over Eurasia in less than 500 years.
+--- 14927536
+>>14927528
+Caititu (or as my Brazilian friend violently objected NOT A PIG)
+--- 14927541
+>>14926284
+They are.
+>>14927501
+There used to be more hunters. Over here, we can only hunt boars, hogs, capybaras and a certain species of invasive deer that doesn’t exist in my state. Not a lot of people are willing to take the due diligence to avoid killing the wrong animal and going to jail.
+Also, most of their predators have a very small population. I think only mountain lions can kill them here.
+--- 14927555
+>>14927536
+They are not pigs, but they sure look like pigs.
+--- 14927565
+>>14927536
+Yeah. Catetos don’t have tails and are usually smaller (but can also be bigger) than boars.

his/14924842.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,33 @@
+-----
+--- 14924842
+Allegedly, the Roman republic and the Athenian republic were founded at nearly the same time. Of course, you have to remember than ancient records were in many cases, propaganda or flat out wrong, but I’m interested in when the two polities would have caught word of the other and what their interactions were like.
+--- 14924857
+>>14924842 (OP)
+Unlikely, because the two cities were hardly comparable at all in terms of development. Rome became great, but for much of the time that Athens was an important hub, Rome was tiny and regionally unimportant.
+--- 14924866
+>>14924857
+So when did the city and state of Rome become important enough for diplomatic relations and trade with Athens to become significant to any degree?
+--- 14924959
+>>14924842 (OP)
+Livy mentions not Athens but Carthage no doubt because of later events. It's almost as if ancient 'history' is just as made up as the History Channel ancient alien's episodes. Tha latter at least tries to base itself on evidence unlike the manuscripts "found" in dusty old libraries
+--- 14924995
+>>14924842 (OP)
+
+They interacted with carthage, which was a republic
+--- 14925101
+>>14924866
+During the Second Macedonian War when the Romans and Attalids were looking for allies against Macedonia.
+
+Though it’s not inconceivable that mainland Greeks had relations with Rome prior to Rome’s ascension.
+--- 14925151
+>>14924842 (OP)
+Interact commercially for sure. It's unlikely they had much of a diplomatic relationship however, since they were outside of each others' sphere of influence.
+--- 14925272
+>>14924842 (OP)
+No but nearby Etruscan towns in Latium sent a few triremes to help Athens take Syracuse in 413 bc
+--- 14926353
+>>14924842 (OP)
+Not directly probably. Although it's obvious the early Roman Republic had contact with Greek colonies like Syracuse.
+--- 14926366
+>>14924842 (OP)
+Tarquinius Priscus’ father was a Greek merchant from Corinth so they probably knew of Athens decently well even in monarchic times

his/14924946.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,42 @@
+-----
+--- 14924946
+>that time YHWH demanded that his followers build an idol and worship it
+>that time he demanded that all male babies get their dicks sucked by creepy old men
+>that time he demanded a flesh sacrifice of the collected foreskins from defeated enemies
+>that time he demanded for someone to sacrifice their son to prove that they will do anything he tells them, then makes the whole story okay by saying it was a prank
+>that time he couldnt defeat iron chariots
+--- 14925045
+>>14924946 (OP)
+Based YHWH sounds like an awesome warlord that will give me victory
+--- 14925536
+>>14924946 (OP)
+>>that time he demanded a flesh sacrifice of the collected foreskins from defeated enemies
+[citation needed]
+--- 14925539
+>>14925536
+It was Saul asking David to collect Philistine foreskins. 
+>Christianity canonizes a story of Jews collecting the foreskins of the descendants of European migrants to the Levant.
+--- 14925693
+>>14924946 (OP)
+>that time YHWH demanded that his followers build an idol and worship it
+He never did that. 
+
+>that time he demanded that all male babies get their dicks sucked by creepy old men
+He also never did that, you are projecting your own faggot desire onto Him. 
+
+>that time he demanded a flesh sacrifice of the collected foreskins from defeated enemies
+A dead's enemy body is a spoil of war, you can do anything you want with it.
+
+>that time he demanded for someone to sacrifice their son to prove that they will do anything he tells them, then makes the whole story okay by saying it was a prank
+Nothing wrong with that. It was a test of loyalty.
+
+>that time he couldnt defeat iron chariots
+The Israelites couldn't*
+--- 14925711
+>>14924946 (OP)
+would you be ok with it if the old man wasn't creepy?
+--- 14925713
+that time I hid another worthless fedora tipper shitpost
+--- 14925720
+>>14924946 (OP)
+>Prophets and priests aren't capable of misinterpreting God's commands through sin

his/14924987.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,49 @@
+-----
+--- 14924987
+I cannot understand how the USSR entered the Cold War against the USA, even though both were dominated by the same owner "J", does anyone have any sensible explanation?
+--- 14924997
+>>14924987 (OP)
+>sunni vs shia
+>catholics vs protestants
+>christians vs muslims
+>fascists vs communists
+>capitalist jews vs communist jews
+It´s not that strange. Just because 2 people are Jewish doesn´t mean they´re friends.
+--- 14925887
+>>14924987 (OP)
+>I cannot understand
+Of course you dont.
+--- 14925894
+/pol/ isn't a history book. You probably don't understand much about history in the first place.
+--- 14926255
+>>14924987 (OP)
+And what happened? They worked together to pry European colonies away. And then America exported grain to prop up the Soviets for 20 years.
+--- 14926278
+they weren't dominated by the same owner. The US was dominated by the bourgeoisie, the USSR by the proletariat.
+--- 14926841
+>>14924987 (OP)
+As the saying goes "2 Jews, 3 Opinions".
+--- 14926848
+>>14925894
+>Why yes, i do get all my historical knowledge from /pol/, how could you tell
+--- 14926851
+>>14924987 (OP)
+Wow, it’s almost like ideology and national affiliation matter to many Jews.
+--- 14926933
+>>14924987 (OP)
+Care to explain how both countries were ruled by Jews?
+--- 14926938
+R1a vs R1b.
+
+J is subservient to R1b.
+--- 14926949
+Most of the deaths before, during and after the creation of the USSR were mainly non-russian minorities, subhumans like the t*rks and Ch*chnyans.
+--- 14927182
+>>14924987 (OP)
+Hmmmmm, almost like your fundamental suppositions aren't actually valid. But don't let a little thing like that get in the way of not reformulating your flawed worldview.
+--- 14927188
+>>14924987 (OP)
+The Cold War was just an internal Jewish schism that went too far.
+--- 14927197
+>>14924987 (OP)
+Which Jews controlled the US at any point in US history? Which Jews controlled the USSR after 1927?

his/14925132.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,40 @@
+-----
+--- 14925132
+How accurate do you think the abduction of Sabine women is?
+--- 14925144
+>>14925132 (OP)
+Because I love early roman historical oeigin legends 100% true.
+--- 14925196
+It's a myth reflecting their mixed origins and history of expansion through conquest (which did include taking women as war brides... but not necessarily Sabines, and not all at once)
+--- 14925198
+>chud
+The Romans were a medieval Finnish ethnic group?
+--- 14925386
+>>14925132 (OP)
+stealing women is a common practice in history among men, women are assets for the most part
+--- 14925455
+>>14925132 (OP)
+This chud roman meme destroyed my respect to romans
+--- 14925460
+>>14925132 (OP)
+>Chud chud chud
+Fuck off back to plebbit faggot
+--- 14925557
+>>14925144
+Don't like rape but I prefer rape in legendary myths and epics over another alphabet soup r1ae1be1bj2 haplochart rape distance chart spams
+--- 14925574
+Romans were mixed before the rape of the sabine women.
+They were composed of 11 latin and 22 (other) sabine tribes.
+--- 14925714
+>>14925132 (OP)
+Romans were R1b with some J2
+--- 14925725
+>>14925714
+>some J2 
+More likely G2a. J2 was probably a later addition.
+--- 14925728
+>>14925132 (OP)
+Looks Germanic to me.
+--- 14925745
+>>14925728
+Mongols rape babies

his/14925188.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,240 @@
+-----
+--- 14925188
+Or he's the most dangerous, most influential sociopath who ever walked the earth.
+Either way, it's interesting.
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxzuh5Xx5G4 [Embed]
+--- 14925204
+>>14925188 (OP)
+Or he's a schizo. Or the off-hand remark that is construed as a claim of divinity is either misinterpreted or fabricated.
+There's a lot of options on the table.
+--- 14925268
+he didnt exist its an allegory anon
+--- 14925271
+>>14925204
+I've known two legit schizos. One was hospitalized and rubbed shit on the walls. The other had no filter at all. He'd start talking about masturbation methods in front of people's parents and stuff. Probably rubbed shit on the walls too, but I can't say for sure.
+--- 14925275
+>>14925271
+Both sound incredibly keyed
+--- 14925279
+>>14925268
+So a guy didn't exist, and his followers still walked to horrible fates just to defend a lie? One of the Apostles (Bartholomew) was skinned alive. You're going to have create dozens of people just in that generation that are all fabrications. Then dozens of more bishops who said they were ordained by said Apostles.. and then who also went to their deaths.
+--- 14925285
+>>14925188 (OP)
+Jesus didn't exist. He didn't write anything down. Nobody who met him wrote anything down. A story about a magic Jew came half a century later at a minimum but we only have a few scraps from the second century of that. No complete document until the 4th century.
+--- 14925288
+>>14925188 (OP)
+He never existed.
+--- 14925477
+>>14925279
+I certainly believe Jesus was a real person but the fate of the apostles is all Church tradition. There is no real proof any of those stories happened.
+--- 14925485
+There have been literally hundreds of messiahs like him.
+
+You can compare all of this to Heaven's Gate. That could become a big religion in a century
+--- 14925500
+>>14925188 (OP)
+Jesus wasnt a real person. The people who came up with Jesus were delusional people that had visions of Jesus in their dreams or getting high.
+--- 14925504
+>>14925285
+Paul's writings date back to 30 years after his death, and they are authentic
+--- 14925527
+>>14925500
+>>14925477
+>>14925268
+If you want to get people off Christianity maybe don't repeat rejected theories based only on speculation. You could just point out OP's argument is fallacious.
+--- 14925532
+>>14925504
+Ah yes the schizo kike that got mad the he was circumcised and dreamed of eating pork.
+>For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one shill or one pilpul shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
+--- 14925562
+>>14925188 (OP)
+Or he's the most successful revolutionist to ever exist
+--- 14925568
+>>14925188 (OP)
+Then tell how it is possible that this schizo influenced world more than anybody else before
+--- 14925616
+>>14925279
+Prove those things happened
+--- 14925623
+>>14925616
+ever heard of bible ?
+--- 14925645
+>>14925623
+The Bible is not historical evidence for anything. The Gospels were anonymously written. By your logic, the Torah, Quran and Vedas are all true as well
+--- 14925654
+>>14925645
+>Nuh uh the Gospel of Mark was written by the guy who ran away naked when Jesus got arrested!!
+--- 14925662
+>>14925645
+How do you know Alexander the Great exist in only information about him comes after his death ?
+--- 14925674
+>>14925645
+most scholars would agree the gospels have some reliable historical information. they are not complete fiction.
+--- 14925721
+>>14925532
+Cope harder. Maybe it will start working if keep trying.
+--- 14925957
+>>14925662
+The physical evidence for him far outstrips that of Jesus. There are contemporary coins with his face for example. Come up with your own arguments btw, instead of regurgitating the same stupid points you all get from that one website
+>>14925674
+Sure, they might have elements of truth for them. Doesnt prove that Jesus physically existed though. Books alone aren't proof.
+--- 14925980
+>>14925957
+>Jesus physically existed
+
+
+Not JUST the Bible "Jesus is mentioned by more than 30 sources outside the New Testament withi 150 years of His life, including the Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius, Flavius Josephus, and the Jewish Talmud....the claim that Jesus was just made up falters on every ground
+--- 14926002
+>>14925980
+>Tacitus
+>Josephus
+see
+https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-reliability-of-Josephus-and-Tacitus-in-their-description-of-the-historical-Jesus
+
+btw, all the sources you listed were written at least 50 years after jesus died.
+--- 14926006
+>>14926002
+>btw, all the sources you listed were written at least 50 years after jesus died.
+
+Just like Alexander after 400 years of his death so ?
+--- 14926019
+>>14925980
+Show me 1 (one) piece of literature that referenced Jesus while he was
+--- 14926030
+>>14926006
+see >>14925957
+--- 14926032
+>>14926019
+Alive I meant to say. What I mean is someone that was alive while Jesus was alive, recording the fact that Jesus existed. Show it to me.
+--- 14926063
+>>14926019
+1. absence of mass media and printing technology. In addition, the vast majority of Palestinians were illiterate at the time.
+
+2.Most importantly, Jesus didn’t rise to prominence until after his death and resurrection. It should not be surprising that few people, if any, wrote about him during his lifetime
+--- 14926093
+>>14926063
+>Jesus didn’t rise to prominence until after his death and resurrection
+isnt there whole stories in the gospel of Gentiles traveling great distances just to meet the man?
+--- 14926104
+>>14926093
+where were they during his final act
+--- 14926120
+>>14925188 (OP)
+C.S Lewis forgot the fourth possibility: that Jesus, as presented in the gospels, was just a legend.
+--- 14926136
+>>14926063
+So there isn´t any, got it. Not a single shred of physical proof. Just books and words and hearsay. If word of mouth is good enough for you, then what stops the Quran from being legit?
+--- 14926154
+>>14926136
+>So there isn´t any, got it. Not a single shred of physical proof. Just books and words and hearsay
+
+hmmmm just like Plato.Did Plato exist ?
+--- 14926162
+>>14926104
+Yes or No. Did Gentiles travel great distances to meet Jesus in the Bible?
+--- 14926171
+>>14926162
+Yes and they all abandon him during his last human hours
+--- 14926172
+>>14926154
+Yes, Plato existed. I´ve noticed you consistently deflect the questions thrown at you and prefer to engage in whataboutery. We are talking about Yeshua bin Yosef though. If you want me to believe this guy existed, I will need more than hearsay.
+--- 14926174
+>>14926171
+>Did Gentiles travel great distances to meet Jesus in the Bible?
+>Yes
+
+>Jesus didn’t rise to prominence until after his death and resurrection
+
+Do you see how these conflict?
+--- 14926184
+>>14926171
+Wonder how they heard of him, if Jesus was a literal who during his life and ministry
+--- 14926186
+>>14926172
+>Yes, Plato existed
+
+how so ?
+--- 14926223
+>>14926186
+The various texts that he wrote as one example. This thread isn´t about Plato though is it? If Jesus had several written texts attributed to him, which would then be referenced by other philosophers and writers in their own texts throughout the era and onwards, there would be a stronger argument.
+--- 14926251
+>>14925957
+>Books alone aren't proof.
+Tell me you don't understand historical research without saying you don't understand historical research.
+--- 14926256
+>>14926251
+So the Quran is proof that Muhammed existed and did what he did? What does that makes Jesus then?
+--- 14926261
+>>14926223
+>If Jesus had several written texts attributed to him
+
+ever heard of Gospels ?
+--- 14926266
+>>14926261
+Like I said earlier, anonymously written.
+--- 14926274
+>>14926261
+>>14926266
+Also, I don´t think anyone attributes the Gospels to Jesus. They are attributed to other people, whilst not actually having been signed by anyone, but I´ve never seen anyone say that Jesus wrote the Gospels I´m not sure what point you´re making.
+--- 14926276
+>>14926256
+It certainly is a form of proof that Mohammad existed. Of course historians tend not to comment on the validity of supernatural events, except to say that some people believe they happened and when those beliefs first appeared.
+--- 14926290
+>>14926276
+Bible warns about false Gods
+--- 14926306
+Look, if there was stories about Plato walking on water I wouldn't think those were made up, just like with the Gospels. Why would anyone tell stories that didn't happen in reality?
+--- 14926325
+>>14926306
+Based.
+--- 14926329
+>>14926306
+Why would jews hate person that didnt exist to this day ?
+--- 14926337
+>>14926290
+Good for you
+--- 14926349
+>>14926329
+Why do Sunnis and Shias hate each other? Why do Catholics and Protestants hate each other? It´s just gay Abrahamic civil war crap
+--- 14926350
+>>14925188 (OP)
+Indeed, he never said he's God, only a sociopath would claim to be God, nice to know we both agree.
+--- 14926438
+>>14926329
+Because Christianity hijacked their Tanakh holy book and people like you are actively trying to exterminate them and call yourself "New Jerusalem". But they will win in the end and you will be destroyed.
+--- 14926604
+>>14926329
+Seems like their problem is with contemporary humans
+--- 14926960
+>>14925188 (OP)
+He is you. You're alive to learn this Truth.
+--- 14927416
+>>14925527
+Not rejected. Outside of christianity and islam, the notion of Jesus being fictional is widely accepted.
+--- 14927443
+>>14926438
+>But they 
+Stop pretending to not be a kike moshe. It's not a coincidence every attempt at building the 3rd temple has been unsuccesful.
+--- 14927455
+>>14925279
+>One of the Apostles (Bartholomew) was skinned alive.
+Not really.
+--- 14927473
+>>14925188 (OP)
+he gave himself up to authorities so they wouldn't go after his disciples, not really sociopath behavior
+--- 14927483
+>>14925188 (OP)
+Could be both, anon.
+The avatar of an evil demiurge.
+--- 14927494
+>>14925279
+>make up bullshit
+>100 years later make up bullshit about the people who followed him
+>200 years later burn most of the books which say this is bullshit
+>300 years later make up more bullshit about the book-burners, how they was saintz an sheeit
+>collapse the Roman economy
+>betray most of your land to Persians then Arabs
+>now everyone has to pick up the pieces
+>no-one left to turn to, but you
+People say bad things about us Jews. Those things might be true. But we learnt from the best.

his/14925318.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,6 @@
+-----
+--- 14925318
+Deuteronomy 23:1 states that "No man who has been castrated or whose penis has been cut off may be included among the Lord's people." and I’m curious if there was any precedent of castrating or cutting the dick off of political enemies, criminals, etc? Seems like a pretty good way to ruin any prospects they might have politically or socially.
+--- 14926819
+>>14925318 (OP)
+Not that I am aware but Canaanites and Egyptians did mutilate war captives.

his/14925371.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,125 @@
+-----
+--- 14925371
+Who was the greatest King or Queen of England in history?
+--- 14925431
+Lizzie
+--- 14925440
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Maybe William I or Alfred the Great. Henry VIII was really important for laying the groundwork for modern England and really establishing the Royal Navy, but I don’t think he was actually that great in terms of character and activity in his reign. The Kings after the Glorious Revolution slowly became more and more useless in terms of their actual responsibilities. Like Queen Victoria, during her reign England was at its height, but most of government was handled by parliament and not her—from what I can tell. Richard I is a popular one that the English like to mention, but he didn’t really do much for England other than crusade and get a cool name, the “Lionheart.”
+--- 14925442
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Edward III, Henry II or Alfred and I guess Liz I for a queen
+--- 14925464
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Oliver Cromwell
+--- 14925491
+>>14925464
+based
+--- 14925570
+>>14925371 (OP)
+objectively speaking
+--- 14925893
+>>14925371 (OP)
+You can make an argument for any of Alfred the Great, Henry II, Edward I, Edward III, Henry V, Elizabeth I, or Victoria.
+--- 14925902
+>>14925371 (OP)
+None. Anglos were always evil with no exceptions.
+--- 14926082
+>>14925371 (OP)
+--- 14926166
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Æthelstan
+Edward III
+Henry V
+Henry VIII
+Elizabeth I
+
+One of those
+
+>>14925440
+>>14925893
+Alfred was never king of England.
+--- 14926189
+Liz 1
+--- 14926193
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Som French guy named Guillaume.
+--- 14926199
+>>14925440
+Richard got kidnapped and held for ransom by my ancestors, unironically.
+--- 14926479
+>>14925371 (OP)
+James the 6th & 1st.
+
+His son was the worst.
+--- 14926687
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Probably William the Bastard/Conqueror. Say what you want about him or his methods and intentions, but the man formally outlawed slavery in the fucking 11th century.
+--- 14926784
+Henry V was the great warrior King.
+--- 14926789
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Edward I
+--- 14926832
+>>14925893
+>Henry II
+not that good
+>Victoria
+held no power
+
+>>14926687
+>X is good because he implemented current cultural belief
+
+>>14925371 (OP)
+King Edgar
+--- 14927054
+>>14925440
+Richard the Lionheart was an awful king. He was a callous narcissist who only cared about pursuing his image as a victorious warrior. He massively indebted the country with all of his wars, and then died conveniently right before any of it came to bite him in the ass, saddling his brother, John, with all the issues of his reign.
+--- 14927063
+>>14926832
+>Victoria held no power
+The amount of times I have tried to tell people this who insist that Britain orchestrated a genocide in Ireland during her reign and that she is thus responsible for it… enough to make my fucking head spin. Same with Yank ignoramuses who insist that George III was this crazed tyrannical madman, and who never want to acknowledge that Parliament was already running the show for nearly a century by that point. Seriously maddening stuff.
+--- 14927087
+Edward I was probably the single most effective monarch England ever had. He didn't simply rule during a time of prosperity and competent statesmen, he himself was the linchpin of his own government, and he actually got shit done.
+--- 14927090
+>>14926199
+He was taken prisoner by the Duke of Austria. You’re a Habsburg?
+--- 14927138
+Edward VIII had the good sense to abdicate before he could foul anything up.
+--- 14927673
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Alfred the Great
+--- 14927694
+>>14925371 (OP)
+>Who was the greatest King or Queen of England in history?
+King Arthur Uther Pendragon (John Timothy Rothwell)
+--- 14927704
+>>14925431
+>>14925464
+>>14925570
+>>14926082
+>>14926479
+>>14926784
+>>14927063
+lol
+--- 14927709
+>>14927704
+Caesar the King
+--- 14927738
+>>14925371 (OP)
+>Almost nobody answering Edward I
+Given a nearly untenable situation he reaffirmed central royal authority, conquered Wales, retained English possessions on the continent, and at several points held Scotland under English dominion.
+--- 14927752
+>>14927738
+Have you not seen Braveheart?
+--- 14928050
+>>14927704
+Wut?
+
+Henry V is objectively the best King in English history.
+--- 14928111
+>>14927063
+George III supported the actions of Parliament taken against the American colonies and viewed the situation early on as the colonists needing to submit. Sure he wasn't some insane absolute monarch but most people don't say so and he deliberately decided not to redress American grievances when asked.
+--- 14928119
+>>14925371 (OP)
+Edward II

his/14925378.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,504 @@
+-----
+--- 14925378
+>everyone accuses Jews of being "international cosmopolitans" with no country of their own 
+>Jews decide to fix this and create their own nation state 
+>Founding that country is kinda polemic but ultimately not any different from how New Zealand or Australia or the USA were also founded by settler colonists
+>Literally encourage all Jews to go there and become national citizens of a country and not be international wanderers anymore 
+>The same people who hated Jews for having no nation now also hate the Jews for having a nation and frequently advocate for its destruction
+Unironically why the fuck is this
+--- 14925385
+>>14925378 (OP)
+Antisemitism is irrational
+--- 14925388
+>>14925378 (OP)
+>The same people who hated Jews for having no nation now also hate the Jews for having a nation and frequently advocate for its destruction
+Most people who has a beef with Israel are Mudslimes and their diaspora, as why would a white guy care about that? Not his problem. You seem like you're mostly arguing with the strawman in your head.
+--- 14925391
+>>14925378 (OP)
+Israel still requires billions of dollars of military gibs to be able to fend off mudslime forces with no apparent benefit for the American taxpayer?
+--- 14925399
+>>14925391
+>no apparent benefit for the American taxpayer
+What? Ridiculous! If that were the case than amerigolems wouldn't be willing to die for their greatest ally, would they!?
+--- 14925417
+>>14925388
+This very board is filled with white guys always complaining about Israel though
+--- 14925419
+>>14925391
+>no apparent benefit for the American taxpayer?
+Do Americans seriously think they do this out of charity?
+A) those billions of "gibs" are used to buy American military hardware. The money goes into the pockets of US Businessmen and stockholders 
+B) Israel is the US's attack dog against Iran and, back in the day, against Soviet influence in the region. If Israel had been communist, the USA would have funded Arabs instead.
+--- 14925423
+>>14925419
+>A) those billions of "gibs" are used to buy American military hardware. The money goes into the pockets of US Businessmen and stockholders
+And where do the resources for that american military hardware come from?
+I mean you can prevaricate around that all you want. Ultimately it is taking resources from americans and handing it over to Israel.
+--- 14925426
+>>14925378 (OP)
+>>Jews decide to fix this and create their own nation state
+It was actually Britain and France
+--- 14925428
+>>14925419
+>give me 100 bucks so I can buy something from you, you'll actually make a profit in the end!
+And I thought Jews were supposed to be good at business and making money?
+--- 14925445
+>>14925423
+>Selling goods is "taking resources" now 
+Okay you can take that up with Raytheon's CEO, he'll probably have his Butler answer your call
+--- 14925456
+>>14925428
+It's more like 
+>I will give you money to buy a gun and in exchange you promise to help me kill this Iranian dude
+FYI the US also provides Egypt and Saudi Arabia with military aid...
+--- 14925459
+>>14925428
+Lmao
+--- 14925465
+>>14925456
+*Also you're only allowed to buy a gun from my dad's store
+--- 14925466
+>>14925417
+>Have undue influence in the politics of other countries and weasel new gibs and reparations out of them every year
+>Wonder why people complain
+The hair dye has seeped into your brain and done damage I see
+--- 14925467
+>>14925391
+Anon, America gives tons of money to all of her allies. Why is it only a problem concerning Israel and not Japan, SK or Germany?
+--- 14925474
+>>14925388
+the beef Arabs had with Israel was really in the end that they saw it as a European colonizer project and Ashkenazi Jews from Poland as invaders. which is funny because Stormtards be like "oh well Jews are this and that and they're not white" but Arabs had the complete opposite take. having said that, Arab-Israeli relations have been improving noticeably in the last decade or so as Israel is being slowly Arabized as Mizhraim come to dominate its demographics and its roots as an Ashkenazi colonizer project are fading.
+--- 14925479
+>>14925474
+They're white rejects. Of course no one wants them.
+--- 14925511
+>>14925466
+>The hair dye has seeped into your brain and done damage I see
+>Anons think blue haired SJWs are pro Israel
+Living under a rock are we?
+--- 14925517
+>>14925511
+I don't care enough to make a distinction between you.
+--- 14925518
+>>14925511
+He's right. Tons of them are ex jews to begin with.
+--- 14925523
+>>14925517
+>I don't care enough to distinguish between polar opposites 
+Not everyone can be proud of being a retard
+--- 14925529
+>>14925466
+>>Have undue influence in the politics of other countries and weasel new gibs and reparations out of them every year
+As already mentioned, Israel is America's attack dog in the region, it's not charity. If Israel wasn't useful as a hammer to strike Iran and Russia with, they'd be discarded as rapidly as South Vietnam was.
+Anyhow, why is shilling for Israel bad but Irish shilling is good? Congressmen like Pete King are short of being outright Sinn Fein shills, but nobody cares about that?
+--- 14925747
+what up?
+--- 14925774
+>>14925378 (OP)
+>>14925385
+Anon, its quite simple. I am a nationalist, which i support my nation in particular, not all the nations in general . And the effects of Israel on my nation have all been negative. In fact, American Jewry would be far less obnoxious if they didn't have a middle eastern escape pod to dash off to for when their abominable behavior finally provokes a proportionate response.
+--- 14925779
+>>14925774
+that doesn't matter anyway because most American Jews don't care about Israel or especially wants to live there. Israel is this very jock/meathead/warrior society and rather alien to the stereotype neurotic schleppy Woody Allen kinds of Jew.
+--- 14925790
+WTF goyium!!! I thought you were nationalists? So why don't you support Mexican irredentism on your southern border? PS I have a 130 IQ.
+--- 14925794
+>>14925388
+We also give numerous other nations money, do you complain about Nicaraguan gibs?
+--- 14925901
+>>14925779
+>that doesn't matter anyway because most American Jews don't care about Israel
+
+Is this another case of "Is this sheenie being delusional or is he intentionally lying? Is there even a difference for them?" Here is the list of the largest donors for the 2020 election, more than half of them are zionist jews. Intensely zionist jews, whose support for a foreign nation overrides all other policy concerns.
+--- 14925912
+>>14925445
+>selling goods made with your own resources paid for by government contracts
+>"sell" these goods by paying for them with your own money through another nation who also receives the end goods
+It's sending money and resources to Israel no matter how you slice it.
+--- 14925925
+>>14925529
+>As already mentioned, Israel is America's attack dog in the region
+No, that's Saudi Arabia. If you read US reports on military shit in the region it's pretty much always Saudi forces who keep getting supplied to anything they want to get involved in. Probably why they give them so much leeway over their oil pricing. 
+Israel mostly just sells US tech to hostiles like China and bribes US politicians by giving preferential contracts to their companies like with Genie Energy on Golan.
+--- 14925947
+>>14925794
+>>14925456
+>>14925467
+oy vey
+--- 14925951
+>>14925467
+>Anon, America gives tons of money to all of her allies. Why is it only a problem concerning Israel and not Japan, SK or Germany?
+Israel is not an american ally. Not a single Israeli troop or a single israeli shekel was spent on any of the wars America fought curiously in Israel's vicinity. I don't mean "I don't like Israel, so it is not an American ally". I mean Israel and America literally do not have an alliance agreement. Its only real in your mind, like other such things.
+--- 14925955
+do not forget that Saudi Arabia pressured the US to invade Iraq. anyone in the know knows they have more influence on US policy in the Middle East than does Israel.
+--- 14925965
+>>14925378 (OP)
+I advocate for its destruction because its "dual citizens" pretty much control my own country's government and business, drain our resources into Israel like some parasite, and in the process worsen our relations with the countries surrounding it.
+It's a very simple reason for hating that country.
+--- 14925977
+That's a lot of butthurt Mudslimes in here probably most of them living in EU countries on welfare.
+--- 14925983
+>>14925947
+How much of Egypt's 1.5 billion in aid was to bribe them to stop fighting Israel?
+--- 14925985
+>>14925779
+there's more enthusiasm for Israel among white Southerners than there is actual Jews, incredibly
+--- 14925989
+>>14925977
+Technically, everyone in Israel is on welfare
+--- 14925991
+>>14925428
+are you stupid?
+>give me 100 bucks that's not yours (you stole it from the citizens) and then I'll give it to you in exchange for some missiles. you get money and I get weapons.
+--- 14925995
+>>14925985
+>doze awful goyium FORCE us to give money to Israel!
+
+please consult 
+
+>>14925901
+--- 14926000
+>>14925989
+well really just the Haredi who don't work or serve in the IDF and have 25 inbred kids while reading old books atll day. then again nobody likes them anyway and they're considered niggers over there.
+--- 14926003
+>>14925378 (OP)
+Personally I think Jews should have just assimilated into their host nations, like immigrants usually did
+--- 14926012
+>>14925995
+Take it easy before you stroke out, Ahmed.
+--- 14926090
+>>14925947
+>3.1b
+We're talking in chump change here. NFL stadiums cost more now
+--- 14926124
+>>14926090
+cool, so give it to americans rather than foreigners
+--- 14926132
+>>14925983
+100%. This number should be added to aid Israel receives.
+--- 14926137
+>>14926124
+This. Use it for the welfare programs and to protect trans kids
+--- 14926153
+>>14926090
+An unjustified expense is an unjustified expense, no matter how large or small it is.
+--- 14926155
+>oy vey, its le shoah, help us unconditionally goy!
+>what? ukrainian war? that's not our mitzvah! no profits!
+--- 14926156
+>>14926137
+better than tranny kikes. Sorry moishe, i don't agree americans exist to be tax cattle for their Chosen overlords
+--- 14926159
+>>14926156
+>Tax cattle
+Wait until you learn that Americans pay China developmental aid
+--- 14926163
+>>14926159
+china and american have tons of interests in common. Not the case for the zionist entity!
+--- 14926168
+>>14926090
+It's not chump change and NFL stadiums cost less than that.
+--- 14926182
+>it's the ol "jews can never be responsible for their actions but white people are to blame for israel" argument again
+--- 14926185
+>>14925378 (OP)
+I view (many, but not all) Jewish Americans the same way I view Irish Americans who have split loyalties, or how I view German Americans during the world wars who betrayed America. Either be a foreigner in a foreign land or be an American loyal to America. As for Israeli Jews? Yeah, they’re pretty much doing the same shit that was done for Australia or America or Canada, though perhaps not as extreme due to the international community not seeming such behavior acceptable anymore. Though perhaps the boers in South Africa are a better example than the settler-colonialism of America and Australia.
+--- 14926226
+>>14925774
+>American Jewry
+American Jews arent even universally pro Israel. Did you ever attend University in the US?
+Fucking Bernie Sanders would've been more anti Israel than your precious WASP Trump
+--- 14926228
+>>14925790
+Retarded post. Israel existing in the fucking Levant doesn't compromise American (or any European nations for that matter) territorial integrity.
+Let's not pretend nationalists on this website care about Arabs wellbeing and whether they suffer from colonialism
+--- 14926238
+>>14925995
+He's not wrong though. Try saying "Israel is evil and I won't support them" and the first voters you'll lose are the batshit evangelicals who want to rebuild the Temple and trigger the apocalypse or some shit
+--- 14926254
+>>14926003
+They often did, but Race schizos still hated them nonetheless. 
+Classic example: Fritz Haber 
+Or Karl Marx for that matter. Note how Nazis chimp out over Marx, but pay zero attention to Engels (who is the one that actually literally wrote about destroying traditional values and family and shit).
+Or how Nazis never bitch about Sartre, Breauvoir, Russell, Habermas, etc. (I.e non-Jewish leftist intellectuals) as much as they'll bitch about Marcuse or Horkheimer
+--- 14926258
+>>14926124
+Americans (or more accurately, right wing ones) don't even want Universal healthcare or subsidized tuition for themselves lmao, wtf do you want that money spent on?
+--- 14926260
+>>14926228
+I do care, and all nationalists should care, since there's an obvious correlation between their lack of wellbeing and their tendency to come to Europe.
+--- 14926262
+>>14926226
+>American Jews arent even universally pro Israel.
+>Significant majorities of American (72%) and Israeli (89%) Jewish millennials say it is important that the American Jewish community and Israel maintain close ties.
+>28% of American Jewish millennials say that anti-Israel climate on campuses or elsewhere has damaged their relationships with friends, while 44% say it has not.
+>26% say it is okay, and 66% say it is not okay, to distance themselves from Israel to better fit in among friends.
+>The AJC survey of 1001 Israeli Jews, ages 25-40, was conducted by Geocartograhy from February 14-22, 2022. The AJC survey of 800 American Jews, ages 25-40, was conducted by YouGov between February 9 and March 30, 2022. Additional analysis was provided to AJC by Opinion, Analytics and Communications Strategist Philippe Assouline.
+Fortunately we have tons of polling that shows American Jews are overwhelming pro-Israel
+--- 14926269
+>>14926260
+Then next time support the "godless Commies" Soviet Union and help them help the Arabs destroy Israel lol
+--- 14926283
+>>14926228
+>Retarded post. Israel existing in the fucking Levant doesn't compromise American (or any European nations for that matter) territorial integrity.
+Besides the bodies of American and European solders who died fighting on behalf of Israeli foreign policy interests, and the resulting migratory influx. It's also not in European interests to have bad relationships with Iran or Libya.
+--- 14926285
+>>14926168
+--- 14926294
+>>14926226
+most American Jews are left-leaning Democrats and even pro-Palestinian. there is the minority of Republican-voting Ben Shapiro Zionists but by and far that's the case.
+--- 14926295
+>>14926283
+>Besides the bodies of American and European solders who died fighting on behalf of Israeli foreign policy interests,
+Care to list them? Afghanistan is the only one where Europeans actually fought, and that was due to the Taliban hosting Al-Qaeda. Europeans didn't join Iraq 2003, that retardation is America's own.
+--- 14926299
+>>14926269
+Does that mean you support Russia deploying S-300 missiles in Syria or giving Iran jets to defend themselves from Israel?
+--- 14926307
+>>14926285
+Grift. I looked up the cost of NFL stadiums, the average is $0.4 billion. 
+
+>just build six landmark stadiums on Israel every year with taxpayer money bro
+KYS
+--- 14926308
+>>14925378 (OP)
+>we dindu nuffin
+yeah, and you ask yourself why you're getting lolocausted some time in the near future
+
+also reminder /his/ is raided by zionist jews hardcore for some reason
+tiresom, lolocaust tiers of tiresome
+
+gas yourself
+--- 14926311
+>>14926295
+You're unaware British forces were deployed in Iraq?
+--- 14926314
+>>14926294
+>who is Michael Bloomberg, Tom Steyer, Dustin MOskovitz, etc
+Most jews are just incredibly dishonest people who support RAHOWA style racial supremacy in Israel and american displacement in america.
+--- 14926318
+>>14926299
+Sure why not lol
+--- 14926320
+>>14926311
+Okay sucks that the British choose to be American puppets since Suez, but we were talking about real Europeans here.
+--- 14926324
+>>14926320
+poland deployed to iraq
+--- 14926326
+>>14926318
+Nice, then we agree. Also those recent leaks showed Russian missiles being smuggled through Egypt to Hezbollah.
+--- 14926330
+>>14926320
+>but we were talking about real Europeans here.
+This just shows you shouldn't fight for Israel, as this is how little they think of you.
+--- 14926335
+>Founding that country is kinda polemic but ultimately not any different from how New Zealand or Australia or the USA were also founded by settler colonists
+I don't really care about Palestinians but this is retarded. Palestinians were just a bunch of peasant dirt farmers farming their dirt and paying their taxes to whoever happened to rule them at the time. Native Americans and Maoris were ultra-violent savages who constantly genocided and cannibalized each other over land they didn't even use, and experienced about the same annual war fatality rate as Germany did in WW1. The displacement of the latter is not the same as the displacement of the former.
+--- 14926341
+>>14926307
+The stadium spike happened in 08-09, and again recently with Sofi and Allegiant
+--- 14926344
+>>14925378 (OP)
+>>The same people who hated Jews for having no nation now also hate the Jews for having a nation and frequently advocate for its destruction
+That's just Arabs/Muslims though. The western nations that were previously antisemitic are mostly fine with Israel and Zionism, but they might criticise some things like settlements.
+--- 14926357
+>>14926254
+There was an assimilationist movement in the 19th and late 18th centuries, but it was never even close to gaining broad support among the Jews, instead being mostly limited to the elites. It didn't fail because of the schizos, it failed because most Jews, as always, refused to assimilate.
+--- 14926359
+>>14925378 (OP)
+>have no nation
+>nobody has an ethnostate 
+>[colonial powers] decide to give Jews a nation/quarantine zone (its already owned by other people)
+>encourage ethnic migration to new culture capital
+>continuously shit on those who have lived there for >1500 years
+>avoid retaliation by acting as a holy proxy state and relying on international big brother intercession 
+
+OPs post says 
+>we have no nation
+>so we stole one
+>why are people mad that Jews have a nation, but they’re also mad when we have no nation?
+--- 14926393
+>>14925419
+>those billions of "gibs" are used to buy American military hardware.
+Cool goy give me a house and a kilo of gold, give some employment to miners. The more things you give me the more jwbs there are
+--- 14926409
+>>14925419
+>here’s why arms dealing is actually a good thing (when the chosen people do it, of course)
+>A) money!!!!!!
+>B) if it wasn’t us doing all the killing, then it would be someone else
+
+>>14925445
+Except when Congress approves a bill to give Israel another bajillion shekels, they don’t make Raytheon come out of pocket.
+
+>>14925456
+>>14925467
+>if other people do it, then so can I 
+Just say that you’re proud to be an American sugar baby, rather than come up with all these mental gymnastics as to why being a sugar baby is somehow justifiable. Being given military aid is effectively submitting to being a geopolitical pawn, so I’m not sure how saying “bbbbbbbut other countries get aid too!!!!” makes you look any better. I’m not even sure how to describe this kind of argument, where you permit an obviously bad thing to keep happening because it benefits you.
+
+>>14925529
+>attack dog
+This is such bootlicker cope. You seem to recognize how obviously dependent Israel is, but you twisted it into being something of which to be proud. You are a proxy state.
+
+>>14925779
+Bewildering fence post shift
+
+Even more astonishing is how Jews itt are saying 
+>“we don’t even care about Israel haha, it’s Christians who care more about Israel: if you have a problem with Jews, then your problem really is with evangelical Christians!”
+But then if you mention how Israeli AIPAC money flows on both sides of the hill, Jews say “EVERYONE gets aid, what’s the problem (even if we get disproportionately more aid than anyone else)?”
+--- 14926420
+lol why do mass repliers think anyone does anything but hide and ignore their posts?
+--- 14926444
+>>14926269
+The main reason Soviet influence was strong in MENA was because the west supported Israel
+--- 14926468
+>>14926357
+assimilation is for all practical purposes happening anyway as most American Jews nowadays marry non-Jews and will effectively disappear as a distinct group in another few decades. there will be nothing left but Haredis and they don't amount for much.
+--- 14926472
+>>14925378 (OP)
+This is just like jews whining how they were "forced" to become loansharks lmao
+--- 14926513
+If I was kicked out of more than a hundred bars, people would blame me, not the bars.
+--- 14926522
+>>14926468
+American Jews aren't actually Jewish. 90% of them are atheist/non practicing. Ask an Israeli Jew what he thinks of Jews outside of the Orthodox nation. You'll find out real quick.
+--- 14926533
+>>14926238
+>. Try saying "Israel is evil and I won't support them" and the first voters you'll lose are the batshit evangelicals who want to rebuild the Temple and trigger the apocalypse or some shit
+
+You familiar with any democratic candidates evne for some lowly shit like dogcatcher that tried criticizing Israel? I got news for you; that ends their career permanently.
+--- 14926534
+>>14926522
+most Israelis are atheist/secular as well it's just like he said Haredis that take religious Judaism seriously and nobody likes them anyhow
+--- 14926537
+>>14926534
+if that's the case, the only people who should be getting upset at all of the anti-semitism are the Haredis.
+--- 14926539
+>>14926533
+Like every now and then some dumb 'groid thinks they can talk about Israel with even a quarter of the vitriol that they normally reserve for white america and they find out really quick who holds the whip hand in the democratic party.
+--- 14926553
+Non practicing/atheist Jews around an antisemite:
+>lock him up, death to all Nazis! I know I disowned my own religion and culture, but I am still upset for some reason! Like me throwing a bagel into the trash and becoming indignant at someone eating the left overs.
+--- 14926555
+>>14926468
+Doubt it desu since in todays world being a minority is a virtue, which thereby incentivizes the parents aswell as the child to emphasize the Jewish half more than the European half.
+And even if they are assimilated, the damage is largely already done.
+--- 14926580
+the Mudslime diaspora ITT are absolutely buttblasted
+--- 14926584
+>>14926580
+if you like the sirs in israel so much rapjeet, you fucking pay for them.
+--- 14926595
+>>14926553
+that's because most anti-semites today are "racial" anti-semites. They don't care if you're religious. Hell, they'll kill you if you're a christian who had one Jewish parent. The Nuremburg laws had restrictions for people with 1 Jewish Grandparent.
+--- 14926632
+Should have just given them Austria because nothing would have changed. They actually have the exact same amount of night clubs per capita that Israel does.
+--- 14926637
+>>14926595
+>most antisemites today are racial anti-semites
+--- 14926645
+Forgot pic
+--- 14926663
+>>14926555
+>incentivizes the parents aswell as the child to emphasize the Jewish half more than the European half.
+>European
+--- 14926676
+>>14925378 (OP)
+it's like jews are doing everything they can so they can get lolocausted a second time, kind of surreal ngl
+--- 14926701
+>>14926663
+Mixing isn't relevant to assimilation if the mixing is between two minorities.
+--- 14926734
+>>14926637
+Example #1 is this whole website. /pol/lacks aren't hoping to convert Jews to Christianity, they see them as a racial existential threat that wants to destroy the white race. Religious antisemitism has been out of style since the 19th century, though those talking points like "Christ-killer" are still popular among Catholic antisemites.
+--- 14926745
+>>14926734
+Most people don't care enough about jews. jews are just annoying to most.
+--- 14926768
+>>14926745
+true, most sane people don't care about Jews. Don't know what that has to do with what I said though.
+--- 14926775
+>>14926734
+they're trying to convert atheists to christianity. Given there is probably 2 religious jews on the entire website, how much polemics should be the sparing for them?
+--- 14926780
+>>14926768
+jews aren't semitic.
+--- 14926788
+>>14926555
+anti-semites do that far more than anyone else. They still claim Lenin was a Jew because he had one jewish grandfather who converted to Christianity.
+Any /pol/ infograph that lists the Jews in X business takes a similar one drop rule philosophy, or even just "that name sounds jewish to me"
+--- 14926796
+but yeah Zionism is pretty much a Republican thing. the Democrat Party is like...yeah. Obama was the most anti-Semitic, pro-Muslim president ever and the party is pretty much summed up by Illhan Omar calling for a new Holocaust on Twitter and not a single word of outrage being uttered about that. of course that didn't stop Obama from getting 90% of the Jewish vote anyway, but then again...meh.
+--- 14926813
+>>14926796
+Trump got only about 22% of the Jewish vote in 2016 despite his unabashed pro-Zionist stance while Mitt Romney at least got 30%.
+--- 14926859
+>>14926788
+Nazis (not all anti-semites) love to point out that a gentile they don't like has a bit of Jewish ancestry, yes, but in practice they don't care as much. 2nd degree Mischlings, i.e. what Lenin was, had full civil rights in Nazi Germany as long as they didn't practice Judaism or marry Jews.
+--- 14926870
+>>14926359
+I mean…you don’t get a new country without taking it in most cases.
+--- 14926875
+a lot of Jews are mixed and sometimes it's pretty obvious like with Erica Jong who except for her nose just looks Polish
+--- 14926878
+>>14926875
+I know very little about Poland or Polish people. Is it the skin that looks polish? The hair?
+--- 14926883
+>>14925378 (OP)
+The Temple of Solomon has not yet been restored, therefore as a Jew I cannot support Israel as it is a farce of the true upcoming Nation of Israel.
+--- 14926888
+>>14926878
+if you see a blonde haired Jew they're mixed pretty much 100% of the time.
+--- 14926895
+>>14926888
+All Ashkenazis are mixed so that doesn't say much
+--- 14926903
+>>14926878
+poles have square heads
+jews have more bullet shaped heads
+--- 14926953
+>>14926903
+Barry Goldwater was a halfu and he looked entirely Polish.
+
+>>14926895
+Not always. You have some like Jerry Seinfeld that don't look mixed at all.
+--- 14926962
+>>14925378 (OP)
+Liberals love Jews but hate Israel, conservatives love Israel but hate Jews
+--- 14926966
+>>14926953
+on that note, had anyone noticed that Michael Richards the only non-Jewish member of the Seinfeld cast was also the least faggoty and most B&R one?
+--- 14926968
+>Israel is an american ally!
+>Its true.... in my mind!
+Is it anti-semitic to ask Jews to not lie about facts?
+--- 14926976
+>>14926903
+There are a number of different Jewish phenotypes anyway depending on the country of origin and some of them just look Greek or Italian with the cartoony-looking le happy merchant ones mostly being from Poland or something like that.
+--- 14926990
+>>14926966
+Is it really enough to say nigger once for someone to be based and redpilled in your book?
+--- 14927006
+>>14926990
+Necessary but not sufficient
+--- 14927016
+>>14926966
+did you also remember that Julia Louis-Dreyfus's father was some shady finance Jew who worshiped Baphomet?
+--- 14927025
+>>14927016
+I didn't,wtf
+--- 14927033
+>>14927025
+Gerard Louis-Dreyfus? Yeah him and also he was like Thomas Pynchon in that there are like no pictures of him anywhere.
+--- 14927998
+>>14927994
+actually Vijay, they mostly just resettle them in Europe.
+--- 14928086
+>>14926976
+>some of them look greek or italian, they don't look like this caricature of a greek or italian person
+--- 14928088
+>>14926895
+so are sephardi and mizrahi, there's no pure hebrew gene pool 
+
+>>14926953
+jerry seinfeild's mother is mizrahi

his/14925413.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,34 @@
+-----
+--- 14925413
+According to the Arians: the Logos existed in God as an eternal attribute of his speech; the Son was a superangelic being created in the beginning after the image of the Logos; the Logos in God is Logos endiathetos, the Logos created was the manifest wisdom of God as Logos prophorikos which is the same as the Son and as Christ. 
+
+According to the Arians, the Son was a demiurge who created this material realm by the authority entrusted to him by his Father, God. Christ, then, came as a man; not as sharing a dual nature, but replacing what would be the human soul of Jesus so that he was human in body but divine in his spirit or soul. The Arians did worship Jesus as Second God, for they believed he was given this authority by the Father. 
+
+Is this correct?
+--- 14925981
+>>14925413 (OP)
+Anon, you posted metaphisical ramblings about something unknowable; there's nothing to call correct
+--- 14925984
+>>14925413 (OP)
+No, it's heresy
+--- 14926036
+>>14925984
+What would JW anon say about it though?
+--- 14926494
+>>14926036
+I believe that before the creation of the world God was alone and that there was no Son. When God desired to create the world, he begot another divine being to create the world through him. This divine being was called Son because he was born; he was called Logos because he was taken from the Reason or Mind of God. 
+
+The Son is a creature. He is a high creature, a creature powerful enough to create the world but, nevertheless, a creature. The Son is subordinate, that is, secondary to, dependent upon, and caused by the Father. 
+
+If the Father begat the Son, he that was begotten had a beginning of existence: and from this it is evident, that there was a time when the Son was not. It therefore necessarily follows, that he [the Son] had his substance from nothing. 
+
+Proverbs 8:22-30 says of the prehuman Jesus: “Jehovah created me when his purpose first unfolded, before the oldest of his works. The deep was not, when I was born. Before the hills, I came to birth. I was by his [God’s] side, a master craftsman.”
+--- 14926508
+>>14926494
+Hello Lara. I'm horny. Wana Whatsapp?
+--- 14927051
+>>14926494
+All heresy. :) You're not a Christian, Lara.
+--- 14928002
+>>14927051
+It's heresy according to the council of Nicea, but not according to the bible

his/14925418.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,40 @@
+-----
+--- 14925418
+Why did the Bosnians convert to Islam but Serbians and Croatians did not?
+--- 14925425
+>>14925418 (OP)
+Bosnia was mostly conquered by the Islamic Ottomans who imposed their religious values on the local people. Serbian and Croatian people managed to repel Islamic invasions.
+--- 14925707
+>>14925425
+>This is what s*rbian nationalists actually believe
+
+It's well established that Bosnians and Albanians converted as a form of tax rebellion as muslims were exempt from paying poll tax.
+--- 14925716
+Because the bosniak regions were gnostics before they conveted and gnosticism is closer to Islam than Christianity is.
+--- 14925757
+Janissaries. Lots of them.
+--- 14925760
+>>14925418 (OP)
+Ottomans only exercised partial control over territories of modern day Croatia; Habsburgs always held on at least a part of it. In the parts they governed their hold was far too short and too weak to upend religious demographics. Bosnians meanwhile had mini-crusades and inquisitions launched against them in the three centuries preceding Ottoman conquest, which put many of them at odds with the dominant Christian institution of the era:
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Church
+
+Balkan countries that spent a significant enough of time under Ottoman rule were left with a significant amount of converts, Serbia included, but they were mostly cleansed by the time the Balkan wars ended (although IIRC the Greeks deported theirs in the aftermath of WWI)
+--- 14925761
+>>14925707
+they chimped out against ottomans nonetheless
+
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_uprising_(1831%E2%80%931832)
+--- 14925940
+>>14925418 (OP)
+Because as aryans it only made sense they should follow the same faith as their turkic hyperborean brothers
+--- 14927088
+A big shame Serbs couldn't exterminate all the musilms within the Balkans, especially within Albania and bosia. But what do you expect from some incompetent slavs who manage to lose over 40% of its territory
+--- 14927237
+>>14925418 (OP)
+because territorially the Ottomans had a more significant holding in the territory that is Bosnia today. Over time after centuries of living under Ottoman rule, lots of Bosnians converted to Islam in order to get out of paying the higher tax that Ottoman authorities imposed on non-Islamic subjects living in their territory. 
+
+After hundreds of years of practicing Islam and with the religion well-cemented, many people kept practicing even after the Ottomans were gradually pushed out of the Balkans.
+--- 14927296
+>>14925716
+
+This. Serbs and Croats used bully them for "not being real christians", so Bosnians converted to Islam to feel more powerful