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AI2 Adapt Dev 52

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Hi friend, 29F with similar story. Recently began therapy again for depression. Am scheduling psychological testing to determine whether there's more than just depression. My story: For me, prior to my mental health crisis, the stress of Research and PhD was the \"good\" stress and life was the \"bad\" stress. I liked research and usually perform well under pressure.. however, life stress confuses and scares me.. I had a bad breakup, unexpected pregnancy (was on oral birth control) and traumatic termination of that pregnancy, and then 6 months or so of catatonic depression.. I stopped sleeping, so I had no energy to exercise.. I didn't exercise so I had no appetite. I had no appetite so I didn't eat.. etc.. There was a period of 2-3 wks where I didn't shower or change clothes.. at that point alcohol was the only thing that allowed me to get calories and get sleep. But obviously the hangovers made work difficult. The rebound anxiety after drinking 1-2 bottles of wine in an evening was unbearable. Meltdowns in lab meeting. Talking back to my PI. Doing the same IFA staining over and over and over again because it was the only thing that made me feel like I had some control. My depression also affected my memory. For example, I was completing my qualifying exam in the middle of this crisis and would work all day on it. Then the next day I'd sit back down at my computer and have no recollection of what I had written. It was troubling and scary. I thought I was losing my mind. My recovery: The most important thing for me was finally reaching out to a doctor. She put me on an antidepressant. The antidepressant doesn't make the sadness or anger go away but it does increase energy and thus gets you off the proverbial bed of sadness. For me it gave me energy to get back in the gym. Back in the gym I was able to refocus on specific physical goals. Pushing hard in the gym allowed me to eat, and made me tired enough to sleep through the night. Also being in the gym requires me to see people - I live alone and work alone due to covid. Seeing people requires showering regularly. Showering regularly makes you feel better. It sucked at the beginning but now I derive so much pleasure from getting to the gym/in the pool/out for a run. Finding pleasure in things was something I never though I'd have again. Alcohol: It seemed impossible at the time but im nearly 2 months sober (read: no alcohol ALONE - I have on 3 occasions had drinks WITH FRIENDS). I think back on how I felt in the midst of everything and to be perfectly honest I didn't think I'd make it this far. I don't look at my alcohol use as anything other than a last ditch survival mechanism. It really was the only thing I had to motivate me to get up, finish my work, and get out of the house. Being tipsy/drunk allowed me to have an appetite. Being drunk let me fall asleep. It was what I had. But it is addictive and the first four days or so after I drink I have strong cravings. I also smoke cigarettes so, double whammy. I cant tell you how I managed to be sober. I think it came down to rage. Once my antidepressant started elevating my energy I didn't need alcohol to motivate me, I had motivation on my own. Which allowed me to realize that, hey, fuck that dude who broke my heart, knocked me up, and abandoned me. I'm going to fucking tear shit up in the gym so I can beast mode my way through his skull. Or something like that. I was able to substitute my goals for my physical wellness for alcohol. But it wasn't easy. There were setbacks. I go on. This coming Tuesday I have my work in progress for the dept. In the last two weeks, all of a sudden, I realized my mind was back. My data is actually good. My presentation is actually dynamic and interesting. Most importantly, it feels like me. My passion for my work is back. And that's a wonderful feeling after 8 months of gray. My therapist asked me on Wednesday to write a letter to myself about how I feel now that I am sort of out of the woods. Something to read the next time I have a crisis. Something to tell myself that it's survivable. I guess this is that. All I can say is - it NEVER feels survivable. It ALWAYS feels like the end.. In the words of Allie Brosh in her new book, \"Solutions and other problems\", the feelings we have of despair, dread, fear, etc... they feel like the end. So we lie on the ground and we feel those feelings drowning us and darkening the skies. We wait for the end to come. But the end doesn't come. We wake up, hungover, anxious, depressed, but alive. As long as we live moment to moment, even though we are certain that the next moment brings death, we are alive. And as long as we are alive we might as well do something. And surviving is something to do. I survived by realizing the sadness, and the anger, and even the love and the joy, that I carry with me, are the things that help me navigate the world. When I lost my love and joy, and when I even lost my anger, my sadness kept me alive. It kept me alive long enough to get my anger back. My anger kept me going long enough to feel joy again. And now that I have joy, I think love isn't far behind. I know somewhere in you is a sadness, or an anger, or a love, that is keeping you alive. And as long as you are alive, keep on surviving. <3", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You are not alone ❤️ take things one day at a time", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "This resonates my friend. I didn’t realize how much my drinking was taking over my entire life. It no doubt affects my health and really clearly began impacting my productivity. Today was my first day without destructive drinking in several weeks. I never expected to get myself in this situation. Today the anxiety was brutal. I managed to get a bit of work done but I’m already behind in the program. Sorry I don’t have advice. It’s just odd timing for you to post this compared to my own struggles. I just hope I don’t relapse.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I fell into a hole that I wasn't fully aware of at the start of my undergrad, and things got worse and worse over the next decade or so when something happened that made me realise I needed help. I went to counselling at my uni and have been in therapy ever since, as well as a bit later visiting a psychiatrist for diagnosis (ADHD and anxiety) and medication. It's been over a year and things are on average much better than they were, but there's still a long way I'd like to go, and I'm still having bad days/weeks (but not usually months any more!). My supervisor has been partly included where I felt it was needed, and I take semi-regular mental health days as needed. Therapy, as well as counselling for the actual life skills needed for daily functioning and PhD work, have both helped me a lot. I'd encourage anyone who was struggling to reach out, either to uni services, any student support groups, therapy, or see a medical doctor. Postgrad is hard enough as it is. I think having some close people to be open to is great if you have that (unfortunately I don't have a great support network, beyond my boyfriend and dog), but I know I never could have done it alone and without professional help and support. I was also on the start of a slippery slope with alcohol, but it got banned during our first pandemic lockdown so I decided to not stock up, and have barely touched it since. How much I relied on it scared me but I know I wouldn't have been able to tone it down by myself (without the lockdown alcohol ban). I've weaned myself over to some fancy (non-alcoholic) drinks that I can drink in the same parts of my routine that I'd have gone for alcohol. Weirdly it's working. But anyhow, I know a little of how you feel, and it's something that you can 100% find some help, advice and support for! This isn't something you need to figure out alone.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Does your school have counseling services? Mine has them for free. As the daughter of someone with a drinking problem, good on you for recognizing the issue early! You can stop this! I believe in you!", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I fell into a hole that I wasn't fully aware of at the start of my undergrad, and things got worse and worse over the next decade or so when something happened that made me realise I needed help. I went to counselling at my uni and have been in therapy ever since, as well as a bit later visiting a psychiatrist for diagnosis (ADHD and anxiety) and medication. It's been over a year and things are on average much better than they were, but there's still a long way I'd like to go, and I'm still having bad days/weeks (but not usually months any more!). My supervisor has been partly included where I felt it was needed, and I take semi-regular mental health days as needed. Therapy, as well as counselling for the actual life skills needed for daily functioning and PhD work, have both helped me a lot. I'd encourage anyone who was struggling to reach out, either to uni services, any student support groups, therapy, or see a medical doctor. Postgrad is hard enough as it is. I think having some close people to be open to is great if you have that (unfortunately I don't have a great support network, beyond my boyfriend and dog), but I know I never could have done it alone and without professional help and support. I was also on the start of a slippery slope with alcohol, but it got banned during our first pandemic lockdown so I decided to not stock up, and have barely touched it since. How much I relied on it scared me but I know I wouldn't have been able to tone it down by myself (without the lockdown alcohol ban). I've weaned myself over to some fancy (non-alcoholic) drinks that I can drink in the same parts of my routine that I'd have gone for alcohol. Weirdly it's working. But anyhow, I know a little of how you feel, and it's something that you can 100% find some help, advice and support for! This isn't something you need to figure out alone.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Burnout is real. You need to give yourself a break regularly. May not fix it all but it will fix the burnout at least. C’s get degrees", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'm in the same boat. I'm in my last semester of my master's program. I have bipolar disorder and undiagnosed aspergers. I've been on and off my meds since my grandfather died (August 2020). I then lost two friends (one of which is fictive kin) to COVID-19 less than a week ago. I understand, it's insanely hard to cope right now with the pressure from the pandemic and controlling our mental health. If I were you I would seek out a therapist for counseling or a psychiatrist if you need medicine. I just focus on what school work I can and try to distract myself from my stressors by doing things I used to like, even if they don't pump the serotonin like they used to. Edit: talk to your advisor about what is going on. If you do not feel comfortable with that you should speak with a school counselor.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Burnout is real. You need to give yourself a break regularly. May not fix it all but it will fix the burnout at least. C’s get degrees", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You are not alone ❤️ take things one day at a time", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I had a rough patch toward the end of my PhD, after a breakup and during a stressful and busy period of both research and writing. I was also having a falling out with my roommate, so I started spending more time at the bar drinking, reading, and writing. Sometimes I'd chat with people. Other times, I'd just enjoy working alone to be out of the office and the house. It definitely took a bit of a toll, I was gaining weight, and my sleep quality was much poorer, but I backed off quite a bit and I'm doing OK now since I've graduated. I've seen others fall into a similar trap, and one guy would even come in to work super drunk and sleep in his office, completely passed out. It was pretty bad. Anyway, it happens. Just make sure to take care of yourself and find some other outlets to help you cope and deal with the stress. Maybe that means some zoom calls with friends. Maybe meditation and more time to sleep. Maybe hiking or a long drive or some coffee with a book.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'm in the same boat. I'm in my last semester of my master's program. I have bipolar disorder and undiagnosed aspergers. I've been on and off my meds since my grandfather died (August 2020). I then lost two friends (one of which is fictive kin) to COVID-19 less than a week ago. I understand, it's insanely hard to cope right now with the pressure from the pandemic and controlling our mental health. If I were you I would seek out a therapist for counseling or a psychiatrist if you need medicine. I just focus on what school work I can and try to distract myself from my stressors by doing things I used to like, even if they don't pump the serotonin like they used to. Edit: talk to your advisor about what is going on. If you do not feel comfortable with that you should speak with a school counselor.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I had a rough patch toward the end of my PhD, after a breakup and during a stressful and busy period of both research and writing. I was also having a falling out with my roommate, so I started spending more time at the bar drinking, reading, and writing. Sometimes I'd chat with people. Other times, I'd just enjoy working alone to be out of the office and the house. It definitely took a bit of a toll, I was gaining weight, and my sleep quality was much poorer, but I backed off quite a bit and I'm doing OK now since I've graduated. I've seen others fall into a similar trap, and one guy would even come in to work super drunk and sleep in his office, completely passed out. It was pretty bad. Anyway, it happens. Just make sure to take care of yourself and find some other outlets to help you cope and deal with the stress. Maybe that means some zoom calls with friends. Maybe meditation and more time to sleep. Maybe hiking or a long drive or some coffee with a book.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Hi. I have been in your position before. I am diagnosed with depression, anxiety and borderline personality disorder. I’m now in my 3rd year of my undergraduate degree but, up until a couple of months ago I was experiencing a lot of pressure and anxiety. I was drinking, smoking a lot and behaving recklessly to cope with the stress. At some point I realised that I needed some sort of system if I ever intended on finishing my degree. I started to schedule small tasks (e.g. one hour of study per subject on a daily basis). Through doing this it made the workload feel more manageable and, I would get those little bursts of pride whenever I would complete tasks. Eventually studying became easier and more enjoyable. I also started to use substances as a ‘reward’ for completing tasks. I’d finish my day at around 7-8pm and then for the rest of the night I would be free to indulge in substances. There are a lot of little helpful tools i’ve used to develop self discipline and to manage stress and anxiety. If you’re interested, feel free to message me.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I had a rough patch toward the end of my PhD, after a breakup and during a stressful and busy period of both research and writing. I was also having a falling out with my roommate, so I started spending more time at the bar drinking, reading, and writing. Sometimes I'd chat with people. Other times, I'd just enjoy working alone to be out of the office and the house. It definitely took a bit of a toll, I was gaining weight, and my sleep quality was much poorer, but I backed off quite a bit and I'm doing OK now since I've graduated. I've seen others fall into a similar trap, and one guy would even come in to work super drunk and sleep in his office, completely passed out. It was pretty bad. Anyway, it happens. Just make sure to take care of yourself and find some other outlets to help you cope and deal with the stress. Maybe that means some zoom calls with friends. Maybe meditation and more time to sleep. Maybe hiking or a long drive or some coffee with a book.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You are not alone ❤️ take things one day at a time", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You're getting good advice and I don't have any advice to add. But, it's great that you're in treatment for mental illness and I think it's great that you're recognizing a potential problem with alcohol before you've gone way to far down that road. Best wishes for a healthy recovery and knock 'em dead on your coursework and thesis!!!", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'm in the same boat. I'm in my last semester of my master's program. I have bipolar disorder and undiagnosed aspergers. I've been on and off my meds since my grandfather died (August 2020). I then lost two friends (one of which is fictive kin) to COVID-19 less than a week ago. I understand, it's insanely hard to cope right now with the pressure from the pandemic and controlling our mental health. If I were you I would seek out a therapist for counseling or a psychiatrist if you need medicine. I just focus on what school work I can and try to distract myself from my stressors by doing things I used to like, even if they don't pump the serotonin like they used to. Edit: talk to your advisor about what is going on. If you do not feel comfortable with that you should speak with a school counselor.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You're getting good advice and I don't have any advice to add. But, it's great that you're in treatment for mental illness and I think it's great that you're recognizing a potential problem with alcohol before you've gone way to far down that road. Best wishes for a healthy recovery and knock 'em dead on your coursework and thesis!!!", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Hi. I have been in your position before. I am diagnosed with depression, anxiety and borderline personality disorder. I’m now in my 3rd year of my undergraduate degree but, up until a couple of months ago I was experiencing a lot of pressure and anxiety. I was drinking, smoking a lot and behaving recklessly to cope with the stress. At some point I realised that I needed some sort of system if I ever intended on finishing my degree. I started to schedule small tasks (e.g. one hour of study per subject on a daily basis). Through doing this it made the workload feel more manageable and, I would get those little bursts of pride whenever I would complete tasks. Eventually studying became easier and more enjoyable. I also started to use substances as a ‘reward’ for completing tasks. I’d finish my day at around 7-8pm and then for the rest of the night I would be free to indulge in substances. There are a lot of little helpful tools i’ve used to develop self discipline and to manage stress and anxiety. If you’re interested, feel free to message me.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You're getting good advice and I don't have any advice to add. But, it's great that you're in treatment for mental illness and I think it's great that you're recognizing a potential problem with alcohol before you've gone way to far down that road. Best wishes for a healthy recovery and knock 'em dead on your coursework and thesis!!!", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You are not alone ❤️ take things one day at a time", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You're getting good advice and I don't have any advice to add. But, it's great that you're in treatment for mental illness and I think it's great that you're recognizing a potential problem with alcohol before you've gone way to far down that road. Best wishes for a healthy recovery and knock 'em dead on your coursework and thesis!!!", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "My final year of grad work (3 semesters- year round classes)I: worked 2 jobs and had two 12 hr shifts at the hospital where I did my internship - along with full coursework loads And had my first kid 2 months before graduation. I had panic attacks constantly. I should have gone to see a psychiatrist. Masters and doctoral students also need support where they can be honest about distress. The entire academic framework from universities in general to grad programs is a framework based on life decades ago and needs to be tossed.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'm in the same boat. I'm in my last semester of my master's program. I have bipolar disorder and undiagnosed aspergers. I've been on and off my meds since my grandfather died (August 2020). I then lost two friends (one of which is fictive kin) to COVID-19 less than a week ago. I understand, it's insanely hard to cope right now with the pressure from the pandemic and controlling our mental health. If I were you I would seek out a therapist for counseling or a psychiatrist if you need medicine. I just focus on what school work I can and try to distract myself from my stressors by doing things I used to like, even if they don't pump the serotonin like they used to. Edit: talk to your advisor about what is going on. If you do not feel comfortable with that you should speak with a school counselor.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You are not alone ❤️ take things one day at a time", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Hi. I have been in your position before. I am diagnosed with depression, anxiety and borderline personality disorder. I’m now in my 3rd year of my undergraduate degree but, up until a couple of months ago I was experiencing a lot of pressure and anxiety. I was drinking, smoking a lot and behaving recklessly to cope with the stress. At some point I realised that I needed some sort of system if I ever intended on finishing my degree. I started to schedule small tasks (e.g. one hour of study per subject on a daily basis). Through doing this it made the workload feel more manageable and, I would get those little bursts of pride whenever I would complete tasks. Eventually studying became easier and more enjoyable. I also started to use substances as a ‘reward’ for completing tasks. I’d finish my day at around 7-8pm and then for the rest of the night I would be free to indulge in substances. There are a lot of little helpful tools i’ve used to develop self discipline and to manage stress and anxiety. If you’re interested, feel free to message me.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You are not alone ❤️ take things one day at a time", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Yes, so much yes. Up until my first year of graduate school, I was racing through life, kicking ass and taking names. Got into my program with an advisor who had worked under some of the greatest in my field. Only to find out he had just completely given up on research and life. I didn’t know any better at the time, blamed myself for EVERYTHING and started going to the little casino across from my apartment to have a few drinks and be around other people. Needless to say, that spiraled out of control very quickly. Unknowingly at the time, I had undiagnosed complex ptsd from my childhood and was having severe panic attacks on a daily basis. My advisor was a huge trigger for me (I’ve since left his lab). I thought I was losing my mind and slipping into a darkness I would not return from. Meanwhile, my regular physician (she’s a NP) was attempting to treat neuropsychiatric disorders without a shred of competence and had me taking 3 different medications that all acted on the same receptors in the brain. Whooooooo man I really thought my next stop was going to be the psychiatric hospital or 6 feet under. Then to find out it was the meds, she could have killed me, and I was walking around with serotonin syndrome for a month. This was pretty much where I hit rock bottom. After 3 years of this torment, I was able to find an amazing trauma and addiction specialist, a psychiatrist who actually listened to me and I finally started receiving the treatment I needed. I’m doing much better today, but grad school is very much intertwined in the trauma now and I find it difficult to still participate. I am learning that my whole world does not need to revolve around this. Publish or perish? Fuck that. I’m learning how to love and respect myself and grad school isn’t going to take that away from me anymore. There is an army of people out here, feeling all the same things you are, and that are here to support you. Make sure you take care of you. That degree doesn’t define you, don’t let it. Take care friend!", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Academia, anxiety, addiction For a bit of background, I (27F) am a graduate student in the field of social sciences. I've been mentally ill for at least 7 years now and getting treatment all the while. The stress and isolation of the pandemic combined with high demands and tons of coursework at my program have worn me down to the point that I've been consistently falling behind with my coursework and thesis work for weeks now, if not months. So, I've recently started drinking to cope with the anxiety and stress. This is not a road I want to go down, though, especially since I have no illusions that it'd somehow help me overcome the demands of grad school and finish my degree. Have you had similar experiences during your own life in higher ed, and how did you manage to climb out of the proverbial hole?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Get out, see friends (in person, not zoom). Do something. Like actual physical stuff in groups", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'm currently supervising a third year PhD student, that she's way too underqualified to complete the degree. Which means she must have been pulling the same tricks for awhile now. She is extremely confortable presenting herself and her work, even though she can't answer most direct questions even about the mosy basic stuff. She never once asked for help or guidance, despite being repeatedly told not to make any decisions without consulting the supervisores. She basically memorizes whatever information is thrown at her, and repeats it to the best of her ability. I've personally told her that her work is at the level of a high school student before a projet meeting, and she went on presenting her slides as if nothing ever happened. She's confident beyond reason. It's simultaneously disheartening and impressive. So, yeah. And she's not the first ive seen like this either.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "This is not exactly what you have in mind, but in grad school I knew a guy who was an imposter. Archaeology program on east coast, mind you, but he would wear three piece suits with topcoats and drink wine during his office hours. He was uber critical of other students' work and was a jerk TA. Anyways, he ended up failing his comps and getting kicked out. So, my point is that I don't think these people last too long. And even if they do get their PhD, they won't be able to get positions. You have to do too much to succeed in academia, imo. One thing I'd note about imposter syndrome and imposters though, is to not mix the two. It's completely normal to struggle with imposter syndrome, and very few who do are actually imposters. I argue that imposter syndrome is a symptom of caring and a drive to do better - a quality that imposters lack. When my students or colleagues talk to me about imposter syndrome, I first think \"good! - this person really wants to do better\". But of course it stems from being hyper critical of your self, and that is something we must all keep a grip on. It's important to be competitive with yourself (not others), but not at the detriment of your success or health, which are usually one in the same.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'm currently supervising a third year PhD student, that she's way too underqualified to complete the degree. Which means she must have been pulling the same tricks for awhile now. She is extremely confortable presenting herself and her work, even though she can't answer most direct questions even about the mosy basic stuff. She never once asked for help or guidance, despite being repeatedly told not to make any decisions without consulting the supervisores. She basically memorizes whatever information is thrown at her, and repeats it to the best of her ability. I've personally told her that her work is at the level of a high school student before a projet meeting, and she went on presenting her slides as if nothing ever happened. She's confident beyond reason. It's simultaneously disheartening and impressive. So, yeah. And she's not the first ive seen like this either.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I suspect that it happens more often than we'd be comfortable. There was an incident in the early 2000s in which a significant number of people in the New Orleans city government had fake degrees. There was a scheme with someone at a university in Florida where they could pay several thousand for an official diploma in order to work. The whole lot were arrested as I recall.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "This is not exactly what you have in mind, but in grad school I knew a guy who was an imposter. Archaeology program on east coast, mind you, but he would wear three piece suits with topcoats and drink wine during his office hours. He was uber critical of other students' work and was a jerk TA. Anyways, he ended up failing his comps and getting kicked out. So, my point is that I don't think these people last too long. And even if they do get their PhD, they won't be able to get positions. You have to do too much to succeed in academia, imo. One thing I'd note about imposter syndrome and imposters though, is to not mix the two. It's completely normal to struggle with imposter syndrome, and very few who do are actually imposters. I argue that imposter syndrome is a symptom of caring and a drive to do better - a quality that imposters lack. When my students or colleagues talk to me about imposter syndrome, I first think \"good! - this person really wants to do better\". But of course it stems from being hyper critical of your self, and that is something we must all keep a grip on. It's important to be competitive with yourself (not others), but not at the detriment of your success or health, which are usually one in the same.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I suspect that it happens more often than we'd be comfortable. There was an incident in the early 2000s in which a significant number of people in the New Orleans city government had fake degrees. There was a scheme with someone at a university in Florida where they could pay several thousand for an official diploma in order to work. The whole lot were arrested as I recall.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know a fella who has a doctorate from a highly ranked program, and is now a tenured professor at a well regarded SLAC. His wife was also in his graduate program, though she dropped out to raise the kids when they got married and immediately started reproducing. He is totally repping her scholarship. I'm sure he does some of the grunt work, and he stays current enough to be able to speak convincingly about it and the field, but it's clearly her scholarship.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "My ex was a bit of an impostor. For our very last fight, I innocently asked him whether tolerance intervals are mathematically similar to confidence intervals and he sneered at me as if it was somehow a stupid question. Feeling needled, I told him that it was OK if he didn't understand tolerance intervals since he had just learned about them - and he broke up with me. He later changed majors from stats to psych because he did not, in fact, understand tolerance intervals. Here's what I've noticed about people who are actual impostors: they tend to elevate themselves over others. They act a little too secure in their expertise, and tend to be condescending or even to make fun of people who don't have their Big Brains, refusing to explain concepts. This is a cover for their own lack of knowledge. These people don't generally make it too far before they wash out, IME. Sure, occasionally one will make it through grad school, but that's usually because they get their reality checked and learn to knuckle down and work. People tend to hear about someone getting caught faking their credentials, and think \"Oh, but how many out there didn't get caught?\" as if it's a tip-of-the-iceberg situation. IMO, it's not that easy to get away with pretending you know what you're doing at higher levels of academia. I think most or all of them get caught.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know a fella who has a doctorate from a highly ranked program, and is now a tenured professor at a well regarded SLAC. His wife was also in his graduate program, though she dropped out to raise the kids when they got married and immediately started reproducing. He is totally repping her scholarship. I'm sure he does some of the grunt work, and he stays current enough to be able to speak convincingly about it and the field, but it's clearly her scholarship.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I've had thousands of students, so have seen the entire range of ability. Most students that make it to the upper level of undergraduate coursework are very capable, and as others have said tend to be most critical of themselves. That is the core of imposter syndrome, and we all have it to some degree. I have to constantly remind students that they wouldn't be where they are without real ability and good decision-making. I'd say this high-achieving group constitutes about two-thirds of my students (not that they are always high-achieving in every single course, but overall in the degree they are generally successful). There's also a group that doesn't do well overall in the degree, but they are usually accepting of the reasons as to why. They aren't faking anything, they just aren't working hard enough, are in the wrong major, have struggles outside of school that semester, etc. They may blame the professor, the University, themselves, or life, but no matter what they're at least understanding that there is a problem they need to address. This is probably a third of my students. This group in my opinion may be in denial, but they are not imposters. There's a very tiny fraction, maybe 1%, that could talk their way into anything, convince everyone they're very knowledgeable, and really can fake it. If you were in a class with them, you'd think they were the top student because of how they speak, when they're often in the bottom 25%. But in their mind they aren't faking anything and they don't even recognize the issue, they really know everything and are at the top of the field. They are very personable, get along with faculty, contribute in lecture, lead clubs, have \"ideas\" (typically ideas that are quite out there). But academically they're typically in the C or D range. Now maybe these students will one day become the next great thinkers of our time, but I've not seen it yet. I would say I see about one student like this a semester. Honestly I don't see how this group could fake their way into a Medical, Masters, or PhD program where there is real rigor. I've personally not seen anyone in my field I would consider an actual imposter. Some less capable than others, for sure, but to get where we are you have to have some reflection and ability. And these \"imposters\" probably find some similar work related to the field, and end up doing pretty well as they can talk their way through most issues. I'd say many would do very well in business, but not academia.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know a fella who has a doctorate from a highly ranked program, and is now a tenured professor at a well regarded SLAC. His wife was also in his graduate program, though she dropped out to raise the kids when they got married and immediately started reproducing. He is totally repping her scholarship. I'm sure he does some of the grunt work, and he stays current enough to be able to speak convincingly about it and the field, but it's clearly her scholarship.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Yes, twice. Both at MSc level, and both international students. One had certainly 'gotten' the qualification she claimed, as her institution confirmed the award. There was no way in hell she had ever set foot in a lab to write the dissertation she claimed she'd done as a BSc; we figured she'd probably paid for it or traded influence. She ended up walking an unbalanced floor-standing centrifuge out of a corner until it failed catastrophically - luckily, everyone was at lunch (including her). Last seen taking a taxi from the front building, never seen again. The second was a standard 'fake IELTS', with the added catch of turning in all written work in Chinese - literally, every report, protocol or essay she was given. This was a UK institution. This was not a Chinese-language course. She ended up with a certificate of completion.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know a fella who has a doctorate from a highly ranked program, and is now a tenured professor at a well regarded SLAC. His wife was also in his graduate program, though she dropped out to raise the kids when they got married and immediately started reproducing. He is totally repping her scholarship. I'm sure he does some of the grunt work, and he stays current enough to be able to speak convincingly about it and the field, but it's clearly her scholarship.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "This is minor, but I caught a faculty candidate misrepresenting themselves as the first author of papers that they were not first author on. The only reason I caught this was because one of their coauthors had such a strange and humorous name that I opened the journal version of one of the papers to confirm it was real.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know a fella who has a doctorate from a highly ranked program, and is now a tenured professor at a well regarded SLAC. His wife was also in his graduate program, though she dropped out to raise the kids when they got married and immediately started reproducing. He is totally repping her scholarship. I'm sure he does some of the grunt work, and he stays current enough to be able to speak convincingly about it and the field, but it's clearly her scholarship.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I've never personally, to my knowledge, encountered someone who completely fabricated multiple degrees, but I have encountered people who vastly oversold their educational background and work history in casual conversation in a way that isn't outright lying, but is very misleading. Think: dropped out of med school after year 1 = \"I have a background in medicine\" or \"During my medical training...\" But then imagine that same person also up-sells 5 other pieces of their work/educational history.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "My ex was a bit of an impostor. For our very last fight, I innocently asked him whether tolerance intervals are mathematically similar to confidence intervals and he sneered at me as if it was somehow a stupid question. Feeling needled, I told him that it was OK if he didn't understand tolerance intervals since he had just learned about them - and he broke up with me. He later changed majors from stats to psych because he did not, in fact, understand tolerance intervals. Here's what I've noticed about people who are actual impostors: they tend to elevate themselves over others. They act a little too secure in their expertise, and tend to be condescending or even to make fun of people who don't have their Big Brains, refusing to explain concepts. This is a cover for their own lack of knowledge. These people don't generally make it too far before they wash out, IME. Sure, occasionally one will make it through grad school, but that's usually because they get their reality checked and learn to knuckle down and work. People tend to hear about someone getting caught faking their credentials, and think \"Oh, but how many out there didn't get caught?\" as if it's a tip-of-the-iceberg situation. IMO, it's not that easy to get away with pretending you know what you're doing at higher levels of academia. I think most or all of them get caught.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "This is minor, but I caught a faculty candidate misrepresenting themselves as the first author of papers that they were not first author on. The only reason I caught this was because one of their coauthors had such a strange and humorous name that I opened the journal version of one of the papers to confirm it was real.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I've had thousands of students, so have seen the entire range of ability. Most students that make it to the upper level of undergraduate coursework are very capable, and as others have said tend to be most critical of themselves. That is the core of imposter syndrome, and we all have it to some degree. I have to constantly remind students that they wouldn't be where they are without real ability and good decision-making. I'd say this high-achieving group constitutes about two-thirds of my students (not that they are always high-achieving in every single course, but overall in the degree they are generally successful). There's also a group that doesn't do well overall in the degree, but they are usually accepting of the reasons as to why. They aren't faking anything, they just aren't working hard enough, are in the wrong major, have struggles outside of school that semester, etc. They may blame the professor, the University, themselves, or life, but no matter what they're at least understanding that there is a problem they need to address. This is probably a third of my students. This group in my opinion may be in denial, but they are not imposters. There's a very tiny fraction, maybe 1%, that could talk their way into anything, convince everyone they're very knowledgeable, and really can fake it. If you were in a class with them, you'd think they were the top student because of how they speak, when they're often in the bottom 25%. But in their mind they aren't faking anything and they don't even recognize the issue, they really know everything and are at the top of the field. They are very personable, get along with faculty, contribute in lecture, lead clubs, have \"ideas\" (typically ideas that are quite out there). But academically they're typically in the C or D range. Now maybe these students will one day become the next great thinkers of our time, but I've not seen it yet. I would say I see about one student like this a semester. Honestly I don't see how this group could fake their way into a Medical, Masters, or PhD program where there is real rigor. I've personally not seen anyone in my field I would consider an actual imposter. Some less capable than others, for sure, but to get where we are you have to have some reflection and ability. And these \"imposters\" probably find some similar work related to the field, and end up doing pretty well as they can talk their way through most issues. I'd say many would do very well in business, but not academia.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "This is minor, but I caught a faculty candidate misrepresenting themselves as the first author of papers that they were not first author on. The only reason I caught this was because one of their coauthors had such a strange and humorous name that I opened the journal version of one of the papers to confirm it was real.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Yes, twice. Both at MSc level, and both international students. One had certainly 'gotten' the qualification she claimed, as her institution confirmed the award. There was no way in hell she had ever set foot in a lab to write the dissertation she claimed she'd done as a BSc; we figured she'd probably paid for it or traded influence. She ended up walking an unbalanced floor-standing centrifuge out of a corner until it failed catastrophically - luckily, everyone was at lunch (including her). Last seen taking a taxi from the front building, never seen again. The second was a standard 'fake IELTS', with the added catch of turning in all written work in Chinese - literally, every report, protocol or essay she was given. This was a UK institution. This was not a Chinese-language course. She ended up with a certificate of completion.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "This is minor, but I caught a faculty candidate misrepresenting themselves as the first author of papers that they were not first author on. The only reason I caught this was because one of their coauthors had such a strange and humorous name that I opened the journal version of one of the papers to confirm it was real.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "There was a actual imposter at my University a few years ago. He started a PhD here and finished quite quickly. They discovered later that parts of it were plagiarized and reported that to the University where he did his former degree, so they could check the related thesis. Turns out he never graduated from that University. He handed in two certificated when he applied for the PhD position and neither was real. Dude was even teaching students, apparently his course material was also stolen from someone else.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "This is minor, but I caught a faculty candidate misrepresenting themselves as the first author of papers that they were not first author on. The only reason I caught this was because one of their coauthors had such a strange and humorous name that I opened the journal version of one of the papers to confirm it was real.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "There was a actual imposter at my University a few years ago. He started a PhD here and finished quite quickly. They discovered later that parts of it were plagiarized and reported that to the University where he did his former degree, so they could check the related thesis. Turns out he never graduated from that University. He handed in two certificated when he applied for the PhD position and neither was real. Dude was even teaching students, apparently his course material was also stolen from someone else.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Imposter Syndrome, to me, has always been weird because sometimes what academia considers “imposters” are often people whose traits don’t perfectly align with their world view and experience. I have learning disabilities and I can’t write with pen and paper. I started grad school at 22 so when I started my PhD, I didn’t know that my illnesses and disabilities would get worse as I aged. I research learning disabilities now but for a good minute, many would have considered me a real imposter because I struggled with lots of things others considered “easy.” But with a little time and patience, I improved and moved beyond that. So yea, an “actual” imposter is somewhat tricky when you don’t know that person’s full story. And I hate to be the one to address the elephant in the room. But academia is still construct dominated by white, straight, and abled people. When non white, straight, and abled people enter these spaces they are considered imposters by a small majority of prejudiced scholars. Im not saying there are many prejudiced scholars but the minority sure is loud https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/smarter-living/dealing-with-impostor-syndrome-when-youre-treated-as-an-impostor.html", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "There was a actual imposter at my University a few years ago. He started a PhD here and finished quite quickly. They discovered later that parts of it were plagiarized and reported that to the University where he did his former degree, so they could check the related thesis. Turns out he never graduated from that University. He handed in two certificated when he applied for the PhD position and neither was real. Dude was even teaching students, apparently his course material was also stolen from someone else.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I've never personally, to my knowledge, encountered someone who completely fabricated multiple degrees, but I have encountered people who vastly oversold their educational background and work history in casual conversation in a way that isn't outright lying, but is very misleading. Think: dropped out of med school after year 1 = \"I have a background in medicine\" or \"During my medical training...\" But then imagine that same person also up-sells 5 other pieces of their work/educational history.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "If it weren't for academia, some people would be unemployable.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Imposter Syndrome, to me, has always been weird because sometimes what academia considers “imposters” are often people whose traits don’t perfectly align with their world view and experience. I have learning disabilities and I can’t write with pen and paper. I started grad school at 22 so when I started my PhD, I didn’t know that my illnesses and disabilities would get worse as I aged. I research learning disabilities now but for a good minute, many would have considered me a real imposter because I struggled with lots of things others considered “easy.” But with a little time and patience, I improved and moved beyond that. So yea, an “actual” imposter is somewhat tricky when you don’t know that person’s full story. And I hate to be the one to address the elephant in the room. But academia is still construct dominated by white, straight, and abled people. When non white, straight, and abled people enter these spaces they are considered imposters by a small majority of prejudiced scholars. Im not saying there are many prejudiced scholars but the minority sure is loud https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/smarter-living/dealing-with-impostor-syndrome-when-youre-treated-as-an-impostor.html", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "If it weren't for academia, some people would be unemployable.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "I hear lots of talk about Imposter Syndrome, but have you ever dealt with an actual imposter? I mean impostor in the sense that they say they have credential X, but it turns out that it is astronomically unlikely that they actually do. Concrete example: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/4/26/mit-admissions-dean-resigns-after-fake/ I'm asking because I think I've run into such a person. I have no intention do anything about it because, I'm not 100% sure, I feel like it is none of my business and I have too many deadlines and unanswered emails to voluntarily get involved in anything. Is this a once in a decade event or does this type of thing happen all the time?", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I've never personally, to my knowledge, encountered someone who completely fabricated multiple degrees, but I have encountered people who vastly oversold their educational background and work history in casual conversation in a way that isn't outright lying, but is very misleading. Think: dropped out of med school after year 1 = \"I have a background in medicine\" or \"During my medical training...\" But then imagine that same person also up-sells 5 other pieces of their work/educational history.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "The frustration you are feeling is natural. The course is designed to teach the student certain skills, and despite their engagement with you they seem to not want to take the time to learn those skills, instead opting for something that is easier for them. In coming to your office hours but ignoring your advice they wasted not only their time but yours. Watching someone fail because they ignore the help provided to them is a frustrating thing. Feeling that frustration is normal. As you’ve said, in the end if they fail the assignment it’s on them not you. You’ve done your part and they’ve chosen to ignore you. You have to divorce yourself from their choices. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Sometimes people need to learn the hard way.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'd say this is pretty normal.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I get the feeling. I am wondering if it has a bit to do with them being a grad student in an undergrad course. I wouldn't do this to anyone but I have my PhD and I am currently undertaking a lower level post graduate degree. I have at times had to stop myself and think objectively about the material, the assessment, and what I do and do not need to do. I didn't try to find workarounds but I certainly stressed myself out doing more than what was required. Grad students are used to being expected to find novel approaches rather than taking the task at face value and it can be difficult to swap back to the mindset needed for simply following set instructions for assignments.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Refer them to library services or whatever learning center you have on campus. Your responsibility only extends so far with respect to “tutoring” a student. It’s cold to say “don’t get personally invested in your students’ success” but you have to do that as an instructor for your own mental well-being. Be supportive when appropriate, but draw lines when needed.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I get the feeling. I am wondering if it has a bit to do with them being a grad student in an undergrad course. I wouldn't do this to anyone but I have my PhD and I am currently undertaking a lower level post graduate degree. I have at times had to stop myself and think objectively about the material, the assessment, and what I do and do not need to do. I didn't try to find workarounds but I certainly stressed myself out doing more than what was required. Grad students are used to being expected to find novel approaches rather than taking the task at face value and it can be difficult to swap back to the mindset needed for simply following set instructions for assignments.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know exactly how this feels. What helped me is changing how I frame the job in my mind: \"I will do everything I can to give you the resources to succeed, but it's up to you to actually use those resources.\" It felt a bit heartless at first but ultimately I realized that it's simply not possible to have the empathic bandwidth to emotionally invest myself into the success of every individual student.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It sounds to me like the student just doesn't understand the content. A tutor sounds like a good idea.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "A key to longevity in this career is learn to say no with genuine respect and a smile.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It sounds to me like the student just doesn't understand the content. A tutor sounds like a good idea.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Refer them to library services or whatever learning center you have on campus. Your responsibility only extends so far with respect to “tutoring” a student. It’s cold to say “don’t get personally invested in your students’ success” but you have to do that as an instructor for your own mental well-being. Be supportive when appropriate, but draw lines when needed.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It sounds to me like the student just doesn't understand the content. A tutor sounds like a good idea.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know exactly how this feels. What helped me is changing how I frame the job in my mind: \"I will do everything I can to give you the resources to succeed, but it's up to you to actually use those resources.\" It felt a bit heartless at first but ultimately I realized that it's simply not possible to have the empathic bandwidth to emotionally invest myself into the success of every individual student.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "A key to longevity in this career is learn to say no with genuine respect and a smile.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Refer them to library services or whatever learning center you have on campus. Your responsibility only extends so far with respect to “tutoring” a student. It’s cold to say “don’t get personally invested in your students’ success” but you have to do that as an instructor for your own mental well-being. Be supportive when appropriate, but draw lines when needed.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "A key to longevity in this career is learn to say no with genuine respect and a smile.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know exactly how this feels. What helped me is changing how I frame the job in my mind: \"I will do everything I can to give you the resources to succeed, but it's up to you to actually use those resources.\" It felt a bit heartless at first but ultimately I realized that it's simply not possible to have the empathic bandwidth to emotionally invest myself into the success of every individual student.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I have never been angry at a student over school work. There is no emotional reaction to what they do or say regarding assignments. I occasionally comment (kindly) if I see or hear one of them being unkind. Even then I'm not angry. Life is too short for me to spend time on that. I care about all my students and will make time to work with them if they need help. I teach mostly gen ed courses, so some of my students struggle not only with the content, but with the fact the course is required.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Refer them to library services or whatever learning center you have on campus. Your responsibility only extends so far with respect to “tutoring” a student. It’s cold to say “don’t get personally invested in your students’ success” but you have to do that as an instructor for your own mental well-being. Be supportive when appropriate, but draw lines when needed.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I have never been angry at a student over school work. There is no emotional reaction to what they do or say regarding assignments. I occasionally comment (kindly) if I see or hear one of them being unkind. Even then I'm not angry. Life is too short for me to spend time on that. I care about all my students and will make time to work with them if they need help. I teach mostly gen ed courses, so some of my students struggle not only with the content, but with the fact the course is required.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know exactly how this feels. What helped me is changing how I frame the job in my mind: \"I will do everything I can to give you the resources to succeed, but it's up to you to actually use those resources.\" It felt a bit heartless at first but ultimately I realized that it's simply not possible to have the empathic bandwidth to emotionally invest myself into the success of every individual student.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I know exactly how this feels. What helped me is changing how I frame the job in my mind: \"I will do everything I can to give you the resources to succeed, but it's up to you to actually use those resources.\" It felt a bit heartless at first but ultimately I realized that it's simply not possible to have the empathic bandwidth to emotionally invest myself into the success of every individual student.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Never be more invested in the success of your students than they are.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You gotta stop that, it’s self destructive.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It’s because you care about your job and they ignore your advice. My husband and I are forever discussing how it is possible to care about our jobs, to be invested, and do it properly, without being constantly frustrated and drained. We are not in research (I’m a grad student plus I work in academia, he’s in STEM industry), but it’s the same thing. We know what’s the best thing to do in certain situations, and when that gets ignored, it makes at least me feel pretty pointless. Which is hard to combine with genuinely caring and having ambitions on behalf of both my department and my own professional life.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It probably is normal. Not for me, because of how hypocritical it would be, but for good teachers it's probably normal.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Ok You need to take the student aside and ask them questions: What is their class load ? Are they struggling financially or stressed ? Give them an extension and pair student w a study group or tutor who can help … Yes your frustrated but you care So ….put in some effort in linking student with resources ok You can do this", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You could just shorten that title to “Is it normal to get angry teaching undergrads?” The answer is yes. You seem to have the same problem as me. I care about the success of my students. I believe that if I could just help them a little more they would be successful. Their success becomes my success because I helped. When they throw that success away, it hurts. Because you tried and they didn’t care. And it hurts again because it’s your field of study and they don’t care.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I have encountered similar feelings... and grad students. Not in STEM, but in humanities. I assign readings and make myself available to anyone who needs help understanding the content. Occasionally I'd run into students who ask questions like the ones your student asked: 'Can I do this or that instead of reading?' etc. And it's mainly because they've simply decided that the reading isn't valuable to them - not because they actually have trouble doing the work (due to ADHD or dyslexia or other challenges where we can arrange for accommodations). I try to explain that the work is progressive, and if they can't get through this bit, they're going to find it harder down the line. It used to rile... and frankly, puzzle me, but I've learned to let go. I can only do and care so much. 90% of the class engages with me and the work, I'll prioritise that. I don't know why some students do this. Maybe it has to do with the commodification of higher education. Students pick and choose what they want to spend their energies and are quick to decide what's relevant or irrelevant. Stubbornly unaware of their areas of incompetence.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Is it maybe also that you feel this student doesn't deserve to be a PhD student? I have that some times it feels so u fair that there are students who are good and can't get to that lvl and then you have students that got there somehow but by the manners (not asking for extension, just stating I won't finish in time) and suggestion to do something different for the task writing up instead of fulfilling a task they kinda \"cheat\" their way to where they are now and probably will later on too?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I can empathize with you, but I’m not sure if it it the same reason. I used to judge myself (solely) based on students’ success. Naturally, it is uncommon to have students as interested as you are in the topic you are teaching. Thus, when students ignored my suggestions and found no better way to compete assignments, and got a bad grade, I felt like I had failed. Now I try to recognize people have different priorities. At times some people don’t value learning over simply finishing a task. I can relate to both sides, but it took me a while to appreciate that as a teacher. Maybe try separating this student’s success from your own perception of your teaching ability.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Your feelings are valid, but I'm not sure about using the term \"normal\". To me it seems that perhaps the goals of the assignment are not clear to the student and for whatever reason that they didn't share (and don't have to), their way of dealing with the challenge they're facing is to do something in a way they feel they are capable of- note that they have also mentioned they're struggling. You mentioned it that *you think* because they're in the PhD program, they *should* *feel embarrassed* to be scared of learning the new tool- feel like you want to shout at them. Where is this coming from? I encourage you to think about it.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Yes, given that you’re an educator…but you’re not there to be their parent. Facilitating access to the information through instruction is all you need to do. Separate your needs/wants/desires and your idea of being studious from these students. You don’t know anything about them if their circumstances. Chill out. What is the actual foundation for this? When did this behavior start? This reads as your displacing your anxiety onto your students. Anxiety isn’t always related to being nervous or fear it could also be an over obsessive mind focused on things it can’t control.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Never be more invested in the success of your students than they are.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You could just shorten that title to “Is it normal to get angry teaching undergrads?” The answer is yes. You seem to have the same problem as me. I care about the success of my students. I believe that if I could just help them a little more they would be successful. Their success becomes my success because I helped. When they throw that success away, it hurts. Because you tried and they didn’t care. And it hurts again because it’s your field of study and they don’t care.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You gotta stop that, it’s self destructive.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You could just shorten that title to “Is it normal to get angry teaching undergrads?” The answer is yes. You seem to have the same problem as me. I care about the success of my students. I believe that if I could just help them a little more they would be successful. Their success becomes my success because I helped. When they throw that success away, it hurts. Because you tried and they didn’t care. And it hurts again because it’s your field of study and they don’t care.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It’s because you care about your job and they ignore your advice. My husband and I are forever discussing how it is possible to care about our jobs, to be invested, and do it properly, without being constantly frustrated and drained. We are not in research (I’m a grad student plus I work in academia, he’s in STEM industry), but it’s the same thing. We know what’s the best thing to do in certain situations, and when that gets ignored, it makes at least me feel pretty pointless. Which is hard to combine with genuinely caring and having ambitions on behalf of both my department and my own professional life.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You could just shorten that title to “Is it normal to get angry teaching undergrads?” The answer is yes. You seem to have the same problem as me. I care about the success of my students. I believe that if I could just help them a little more they would be successful. Their success becomes my success because I helped. When they throw that success away, it hurts. Because you tried and they didn’t care. And it hurts again because it’s your field of study and they don’t care.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It probably is normal. Not for me, because of how hypocritical it would be, but for good teachers it's probably normal.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You could just shorten that title to “Is it normal to get angry teaching undergrads?” The answer is yes. You seem to have the same problem as me. I care about the success of my students. I believe that if I could just help them a little more they would be successful. Their success becomes my success because I helped. When they throw that success away, it hurts. Because you tried and they didn’t care. And it hurts again because it’s your field of study and they don’t care.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It probably is normal. Not for me, because of how hypocritical it would be, but for good teachers it's probably normal.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it normal to get angry at a student for ignoring advice and wasting their own time (teaching undergrads)? I am normally a calmn person but I am finding myself angry at a student for a nonsensical reason. I am teaching a CS course. In this course we provided undergrads with a template in Javascript so that they could do a demo. The assignment uses a sophisticated data structure that is common in geometry processing that we provided students so that they can do their assignment. Using the DS is not complicated but it takes a lot of effort and care to make it work properly which is why we give it to them instead of asking them to code it. One student came during office hours to ask for help, and I am more than happy to help them out. I went over multiple examples on paper on how the algorithm they need to implement works. I suggested multiple different possible implementations to see if one would click. I asked the student to walk me over a few steps of what they should do, to try to gauge what they were confused about. This student is a PhD candidate taking an upper year undergrad course as part of their degree, take this into consideration for what I am about to describe, this is not a first year undergrad but someone who already graduated and is at the PhD level (albeit in a different discipline to mine). After an hour of trying to help the student understand the assignment they said two things in that conversation that struck a cord in me (politely, the student was never rude in any way). 1) Can I get extra marks for making a writeup of what I understand about the assignment? Which absolutely not, the course is about application and being able to code the algorithm, failing to implement the algorithm (which many other students have implemented) is a failure in the assignment, period, why would you be entitled to marks for a writeup when there is no written component to the assignment? 2) They mentioned that they were struggling for time and they thought they might not finish the assignment (not asking for an extension, they just mentioned it as part of the conversation and did not dwell on it, they did not ask for any additional considerations). And they also said that to \"understand the algorithm\" they would code the entire thing in python (without a 3D visualizer like the one we gave them for js), without the sophisticated data structure they are supposed to use (i.e. he wants to brute force the solution in python without any acceleration queries). I tried to gently advice them to not waste their time and just sit down and understand the assignment proper. I did not say anything in that hour, but even though it's been hours I am so... angry? Like I want to shout at this student and tell them they are being positively stupid. They want to waste hours of their time replicating 10% of the assignment (the result), when the whole point is for us to test them on their use of the data structure. Understanding the data structure IS the assignment, if you get it you can get the solution in 30 minutes. They are a PhD student in a subdiscipline of CS, I feel they should be embarrassed to be scared of properly learning the course material and finding copouts and crutches to get by instead of properly studying. But I have no stakes on this, if they fail the assignment it's on them, not on me. Why am I so upset at this student self sabotaging by not realising they are using python as an unhealthy coping mechanism to not deal with the anxiety of learning new languages and algorithms? Have others felt this way? Is this normal? Do I need to seek counselling? I have never gotten so angry at someone over something so inconsequential to my own status.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I have encountered similar feelings... and grad students. Not in STEM, but in humanities. I assign readings and make myself available to anyone who needs help understanding the content. Occasionally I'd run into students who ask questions like the ones your student asked: 'Can I do this or that instead of reading?' etc. And it's mainly because they've simply decided that the reading isn't valuable to them - not because they actually have trouble doing the work (due to ADHD or dyslexia or other challenges where we can arrange for accommodations). I try to explain that the work is progressive, and if they can't get through this bit, they're going to find it harder down the line. It used to rile... and frankly, puzzle me, but I've learned to let go. I can only do and care so much. 90% of the class engages with me and the work, I'll prioritise that. I don't know why some students do this. Maybe it has to do with the commodification of higher education. Students pick and choose what they want to spend their energies and are quick to decide what's relevant or irrelevant. Stubbornly unaware of their areas of incompetence.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "In the US there ~10 more PhD students starting than permanent positions are rewarded in academia and it properly doesn't look so different in other countries. Hence, dropping out of academia is the rule and not the exception nowadays. So, it's not a failure in anyway, despite what your supervisors may like to tell you. But it doesn't necessarily mean to stop doing science. Many companies have a research & development department and many startups are also interested in people with a scientific expertise. So, you may end up in a place with lots of former Postdocs. But even many non-research positions can benefit from having a scientific education. So, you may to want to see academia as only one of many ways to build your career and it might not be the best for you.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please reach out. You can find help at a National Suicide Prevention Lifeline USA: 18002738255 US Crisis textline: 741741 text HOME United Kingdom: 116 123 Trans Lifeline (877-565-8860) Others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I ignored the red eyes and burnt out people for way too long, thinking that they were all exceptions to the rule. It's observant for you to see it already as an undergrad. But also keep in mind that you do not have a sense of what the baseline looks like, and you are seeing them during a global pandemic and time of instability. How do you think nurses and teachers are doing right now? The grass isn't always greener. Sometimes it's better to just make the best of what you already have. It's impossible making that judgement call though, and you have almost no way of predicting which is the right choice. Just remember it's not the end of the world either way.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please reach out. You can find help at a National Suicide Prevention Lifeline USA: 18002738255 US Crisis textline: 741741 text HOME United Kingdom: 116 123 Trans Lifeline (877-565-8860) Others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I ignored the red eyes and burnt out people for way too long, thinking that they were all exceptions to the rule. It's observant for you to see it already as an undergrad. But also keep in mind that you do not have a sense of what the baseline looks like, and you are seeing them during a global pandemic and time of instability. How do you think nurses and teachers are doing right now? The grass isn't always greener. Sometimes it's better to just make the best of what you already have. It's impossible making that judgement call though, and you have almost no way of predicting which is the right choice. Just remember it's not the end of the world either way.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It depends what sort of stress bothers you, but I wouldn't consider either nursing or teaching easier or lower pressure careers. Take your time and think more about what you actually want to do day to day. Keep your research plans for this year, but also talk to some nurses or teachers. Right now might be weird, but post covid there should be lots of volunteer gigs tutoring at schools and at hospitals that should give you a chance to get in the environment and talk to people. You might also want to look into research adjacent roles outside of academia (medical writing, data science).", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I quit my PhD because I wanted a \"normal job\". The line of work I am is not exactly stress free or relaxing (public accounting at large firm) but I am so much happier for it. Having fairly regular hours, defined expectations, clear career progression and a comfortable salary were all very appealing to me. I still love science but it turned out that being the actual boots on the ground running experiments was not the life for me. I was also very aware that finding an industry job or postdoc job would be tough and would likely involve me moving to somewhere that I didn't necessarily want to live. Additionally, I became very disillusioned with the whole academic culture and couldn't bear to be in that world for longer than necessary. Happy to answer any questions.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "People get conned into academia because the only people they speak to about staying in academia are academics, which by definition suffer from “survivor bias” (ironically in more than one sense of the word \"survivor\"). There are not nearly enough academic positions for all the academics that are being generated so the odds are against you for a long term career. The sooner you jump ship, the better you can do in an industrial world. Also remember industry is full of science and research. This is field dependent, but in many respects the industrial world is better for research. Resources and funding are better and the chances that your work will see mass adoption is much higher. In my field we’re 5+ years ahead of what academics are presenting in conferences. If you look at major breakthroughs in computing, you’ll find they mostly came from private research labs, not academia. Tread your own path. Do what makes you happy. And don’t feel pressured by academics. There’s a big world out there. You can always come back to academia if you want to. Don’t listen to anyone who says you can’t.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I quit my PhD because I wanted a \"normal job\". The line of work I am is not exactly stress free or relaxing (public accounting at large firm) but I am so much happier for it. Having fairly regular hours, defined expectations, clear career progression and a comfortable salary were all very appealing to me. I still love science but it turned out that being the actual boots on the ground running experiments was not the life for me. I was also very aware that finding an industry job or postdoc job would be tough and would likely involve me moving to somewhere that I didn't necessarily want to live. Additionally, I became very disillusioned with the whole academic culture and couldn't bear to be in that world for longer than necessary. Happy to answer any questions.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please reach out. You can find help at a National Suicide Prevention Lifeline USA: 18002738255 US Crisis textline: 741741 text HOME United Kingdom: 116 123 Trans Lifeline (877-565-8860) Others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I quit my PhD because I wanted a \"normal job\". The line of work I am is not exactly stress free or relaxing (public accounting at large firm) but I am so much happier for it. Having fairly regular hours, defined expectations, clear career progression and a comfortable salary were all very appealing to me. I still love science but it turned out that being the actual boots on the ground running experiments was not the life for me. I was also very aware that finding an industry job or postdoc job would be tough and would likely involve me moving to somewhere that I didn't necessarily want to live. Additionally, I became very disillusioned with the whole academic culture and couldn't bear to be in that world for longer than necessary. Happy to answer any questions.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It depends what sort of stress bothers you, but I wouldn't consider either nursing or teaching easier or lower pressure careers. Take your time and think more about what you actually want to do day to day. Keep your research plans for this year, but also talk to some nurses or teachers. Right now might be weird, but post covid there should be lots of volunteer gigs tutoring at schools and at hospitals that should give you a chance to get in the environment and talk to people. You might also want to look into research adjacent roles outside of academia (medical writing, data science).", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I quit my PhD because I wanted a \"normal job\". The line of work I am is not exactly stress free or relaxing (public accounting at large firm) but I am so much happier for it. Having fairly regular hours, defined expectations, clear career progression and a comfortable salary were all very appealing to me. I still love science but it turned out that being the actual boots on the ground running experiments was not the life for me. I was also very aware that finding an industry job or postdoc job would be tough and would likely involve me moving to somewhere that I didn't necessarily want to live. Additionally, I became very disillusioned with the whole academic culture and couldn't bear to be in that world for longer than necessary. Happy to answer any questions.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I would stay researching for the time you are a student and after finishing your PhD look for the way out: you will have a good filled CV and can do better-paying jobs than teaching or nursing. I have made the decision this year to go for one last round of applying and getting a postdoc but I will effectively be using that postdoc as a way to save up some money and invest in my own business. You tal about red eyes and fatigue with your colleagues: indeed, for those who are lucky to have a job, there is a great deal of stress to get results to get the new grant, get published, and get the next contract. It's not fun anymore for a lot of people.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "People get conned into academia because the only people they speak to about staying in academia are academics, which by definition suffer from “survivor bias” (ironically in more than one sense of the word \"survivor\"). There are not nearly enough academic positions for all the academics that are being generated so the odds are against you for a long term career. The sooner you jump ship, the better you can do in an industrial world. Also remember industry is full of science and research. This is field dependent, but in many respects the industrial world is better for research. Resources and funding are better and the chances that your work will see mass adoption is much higher. In my field we’re 5+ years ahead of what academics are presenting in conferences. If you look at major breakthroughs in computing, you’ll find they mostly came from private research labs, not academia. Tread your own path. Do what makes you happy. And don’t feel pressured by academics. There’s a big world out there. You can always come back to academia if you want to. Don’t listen to anyone who says you can’t.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please reach out. You can find help at a National Suicide Prevention Lifeline USA: 18002738255 US Crisis textline: 741741 text HOME United Kingdom: 116 123 Trans Lifeline (877-565-8860) Others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "People get conned into academia because the only people they speak to about staying in academia are academics, which by definition suffer from “survivor bias” (ironically in more than one sense of the word \"survivor\"). There are not nearly enough academic positions for all the academics that are being generated so the odds are against you for a long term career. The sooner you jump ship, the better you can do in an industrial world. Also remember industry is full of science and research. This is field dependent, but in many respects the industrial world is better for research. Resources and funding are better and the chances that your work will see mass adoption is much higher. In my field we’re 5+ years ahead of what academics are presenting in conferences. If you look at major breakthroughs in computing, you’ll find they mostly came from private research labs, not academia. Tread your own path. Do what makes you happy. And don’t feel pressured by academics. There’s a big world out there. You can always come back to academia if you want to. Don’t listen to anyone who says you can’t.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It depends what sort of stress bothers you, but I wouldn't consider either nursing or teaching easier or lower pressure careers. Take your time and think more about what you actually want to do day to day. Keep your research plans for this year, but also talk to some nurses or teachers. Right now might be weird, but post covid there should be lots of volunteer gigs tutoring at schools and at hospitals that should give you a chance to get in the environment and talk to people. You might also want to look into research adjacent roles outside of academia (medical writing, data science).", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Even though it's often called \"alternative career\" leaving Academia at some point is actually closer to the norm. r/LeavingAcademia can give you some insights there. I'll leave academia in January. When I finished my PhD in March, I was sure I would stay in academia. I even got postdoc offers at great labs abroad and it still feels like a waste to pass on them. But the more I thought about what that means, the less I was into that life style. I'm in my thirties, so I won't have job security for *at least* 10 more years. Most of that time I probably wouldn't even be sure what I'll do the following year. My granny fell sick this year, so working within 2 hours of my family got also more important. My partner was reluctant on moving abroad (especially the States), so how we would have handled our relationship was open and any big plans put on ice. A few months ago I applied to an industry position that would be a perfect fit for my interests. Permanent position, close to my family, my partner was on board. The moment I realized that I'll have job security for years to come and could make plans that are years in the future actually felt amazing. I'm now excited to see where this new adventure will lead to, it's a completely new challenge (whereas postdoc would have been more of the same). I am grieving my academic career but the negatives just were too big for me. I don't think this means I failed, it just means my priorities lie somewhere else than advancing that specific career. And as said, this is anyway the norm, most people drop out sooner or later, either by choice or because they fail to secure a tenured position. I was curious to see how far I would make it but ultimately leaving now on my own terms probably beats having to leave because I have to or getting stuck at a position I'm not happy about.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please reach out. You can find help at a National Suicide Prevention Lifeline USA: 18002738255 US Crisis textline: 741741 text HOME United Kingdom: 116 123 Trans Lifeline (877-565-8860) Others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Even though it's often called \"alternative career\" leaving Academia at some point is actually closer to the norm. r/LeavingAcademia can give you some insights there. I'll leave academia in January. When I finished my PhD in March, I was sure I would stay in academia. I even got postdoc offers at great labs abroad and it still feels like a waste to pass on them. But the more I thought about what that means, the less I was into that life style. I'm in my thirties, so I won't have job security for *at least* 10 more years. Most of that time I probably wouldn't even be sure what I'll do the following year. My granny fell sick this year, so working within 2 hours of my family got also more important. My partner was reluctant on moving abroad (especially the States), so how we would have handled our relationship was open and any big plans put on ice. A few months ago I applied to an industry position that would be a perfect fit for my interests. Permanent position, close to my family, my partner was on board. The moment I realized that I'll have job security for years to come and could make plans that are years in the future actually felt amazing. I'm now excited to see where this new adventure will lead to, it's a completely new challenge (whereas postdoc would have been more of the same). I am grieving my academic career but the negatives just were too big for me. I don't think this means I failed, it just means my priorities lie somewhere else than advancing that specific career. And as said, this is anyway the norm, most people drop out sooner or later, either by choice or because they fail to secure a tenured position. I was curious to see how far I would make it but ultimately leaving now on my own terms probably beats having to leave because I have to or getting stuck at a position I'm not happy about.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It depends what sort of stress bothers you, but I wouldn't consider either nursing or teaching easier or lower pressure careers. Take your time and think more about what you actually want to do day to day. Keep your research plans for this year, but also talk to some nurses or teachers. Right now might be weird, but post covid there should be lots of volunteer gigs tutoring at schools and at hospitals that should give you a chance to get in the environment and talk to people. You might also want to look into research adjacent roles outside of academia (medical writing, data science).", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Even though it's often called \"alternative career\" leaving Academia at some point is actually closer to the norm. r/LeavingAcademia can give you some insights there. I'll leave academia in January. When I finished my PhD in March, I was sure I would stay in academia. I even got postdoc offers at great labs abroad and it still feels like a waste to pass on them. But the more I thought about what that means, the less I was into that life style. I'm in my thirties, so I won't have job security for *at least* 10 more years. Most of that time I probably wouldn't even be sure what I'll do the following year. My granny fell sick this year, so working within 2 hours of my family got also more important. My partner was reluctant on moving abroad (especially the States), so how we would have handled our relationship was open and any big plans put on ice. A few months ago I applied to an industry position that would be a perfect fit for my interests. Permanent position, close to my family, my partner was on board. The moment I realized that I'll have job security for years to come and could make plans that are years in the future actually felt amazing. I'm now excited to see where this new adventure will lead to, it's a completely new challenge (whereas postdoc would have been more of the same). I am grieving my academic career but the negatives just were too big for me. I don't think this means I failed, it just means my priorities lie somewhere else than advancing that specific career. And as said, this is anyway the norm, most people drop out sooner or later, either by choice or because they fail to secure a tenured position. I was curious to see how far I would make it but ultimately leaving now on my own terms probably beats having to leave because I have to or getting stuck at a position I'm not happy about.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Academia IS a “normal job”. You’re an undergrad. You’re not even a full time scientist yet. In all honesty, what would you be quitting?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Even though it's often called \"alternative career\" leaving Academia at some point is actually closer to the norm. r/LeavingAcademia can give you some insights there. I'll leave academia in January. When I finished my PhD in March, I was sure I would stay in academia. I even got postdoc offers at great labs abroad and it still feels like a waste to pass on them. But the more I thought about what that means, the less I was into that life style. I'm in my thirties, so I won't have job security for *at least* 10 more years. Most of that time I probably wouldn't even be sure what I'll do the following year. My granny fell sick this year, so working within 2 hours of my family got also more important. My partner was reluctant on moving abroad (especially the States), so how we would have handled our relationship was open and any big plans put on ice. A few months ago I applied to an industry position that would be a perfect fit for my interests. Permanent position, close to my family, my partner was on board. The moment I realized that I'll have job security for years to come and could make plans that are years in the future actually felt amazing. I'm now excited to see where this new adventure will lead to, it's a completely new challenge (whereas postdoc would have been more of the same). I am grieving my academic career but the negatives just were too big for me. I don't think this means I failed, it just means my priorities lie somewhere else than advancing that specific career. And as said, this is anyway the norm, most people drop out sooner or later, either by choice or because they fail to secure a tenured position. I was curious to see how far I would make it but ultimately leaving now on my own terms probably beats having to leave because I have to or getting stuck at a position I'm not happy about.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I would stay researching for the time you are a student and after finishing your PhD look for the way out: you will have a good filled CV and can do better-paying jobs than teaching or nursing. I have made the decision this year to go for one last round of applying and getting a postdoc but I will effectively be using that postdoc as a way to save up some money and invest in my own business. You tal about red eyes and fatigue with your colleagues: indeed, for those who are lucky to have a job, there is a great deal of stress to get results to get the new grant, get published, and get the next contract. It's not fun anymore for a lot of people.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Even though it's often called \"alternative career\" leaving Academia at some point is actually closer to the norm. r/LeavingAcademia can give you some insights there. I'll leave academia in January. When I finished my PhD in March, I was sure I would stay in academia. I even got postdoc offers at great labs abroad and it still feels like a waste to pass on them. But the more I thought about what that means, the less I was into that life style. I'm in my thirties, so I won't have job security for *at least* 10 more years. Most of that time I probably wouldn't even be sure what I'll do the following year. My granny fell sick this year, so working within 2 hours of my family got also more important. My partner was reluctant on moving abroad (especially the States), so how we would have handled our relationship was open and any big plans put on ice. A few months ago I applied to an industry position that would be a perfect fit for my interests. Permanent position, close to my family, my partner was on board. The moment I realized that I'll have job security for years to come and could make plans that are years in the future actually felt amazing. I'm now excited to see where this new adventure will lead to, it's a completely new challenge (whereas postdoc would have been more of the same). I am grieving my academic career but the negatives just were too big for me. I don't think this means I failed, it just means my priorities lie somewhere else than advancing that specific career. And as said, this is anyway the norm, most people drop out sooner or later, either by choice or because they fail to secure a tenured position. I was curious to see how far I would make it but ultimately leaving now on my own terms probably beats having to leave because I have to or getting stuck at a position I'm not happy about.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Of course it's not bad to want that. In fact, if that's what you want you are actually pretty lucky. There are plenty of normal jobs and few academic jobs. Whenever your demand lines up with supply, you're golden.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Even though it's often called \"alternative career\" leaving Academia at some point is actually closer to the norm. r/LeavingAcademia can give you some insights there. I'll leave academia in January. When I finished my PhD in March, I was sure I would stay in academia. I even got postdoc offers at great labs abroad and it still feels like a waste to pass on them. But the more I thought about what that means, the less I was into that life style. I'm in my thirties, so I won't have job security for *at least* 10 more years. Most of that time I probably wouldn't even be sure what I'll do the following year. My granny fell sick this year, so working within 2 hours of my family got also more important. My partner was reluctant on moving abroad (especially the States), so how we would have handled our relationship was open and any big plans put on ice. A few months ago I applied to an industry position that would be a perfect fit for my interests. Permanent position, close to my family, my partner was on board. The moment I realized that I'll have job security for years to come and could make plans that are years in the future actually felt amazing. I'm now excited to see where this new adventure will lead to, it's a completely new challenge (whereas postdoc would have been more of the same). I am grieving my academic career but the negatives just were too big for me. I don't think this means I failed, it just means my priorities lie somewhere else than advancing that specific career. And as said, this is anyway the norm, most people drop out sooner or later, either by choice or because they fail to secure a tenured position. I was curious to see how far I would make it but ultimately leaving now on my own terms probably beats having to leave because I have to or getting stuck at a position I'm not happy about.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "What specifically do you think you can't handle? If you like research, bit don't want the stress of postdocs / professors you could persue a research assistant/technician position. They're more readily available and easier to get, you get to be I the lab 90% of the time and you don't have as much stress. The only stress I have is my yearly contract which depends on my PI securing funding, but luckily I'm in a well funded lab. Alternatively, there are a few permanent positions available in medical labs etc.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Even though it's often called \"alternative career\" leaving Academia at some point is actually closer to the norm. r/LeavingAcademia can give you some insights there. I'll leave academia in January. When I finished my PhD in March, I was sure I would stay in academia. I even got postdoc offers at great labs abroad and it still feels like a waste to pass on them. But the more I thought about what that means, the less I was into that life style. I'm in my thirties, so I won't have job security for *at least* 10 more years. Most of that time I probably wouldn't even be sure what I'll do the following year. My granny fell sick this year, so working within 2 hours of my family got also more important. My partner was reluctant on moving abroad (especially the States), so how we would have handled our relationship was open and any big plans put on ice. A few months ago I applied to an industry position that would be a perfect fit for my interests. Permanent position, close to my family, my partner was on board. The moment I realized that I'll have job security for years to come and could make plans that are years in the future actually felt amazing. I'm now excited to see where this new adventure will lead to, it's a completely new challenge (whereas postdoc would have been more of the same). I am grieving my academic career but the negatives just were too big for me. I don't think this means I failed, it just means my priorities lie somewhere else than advancing that specific career. And as said, this is anyway the norm, most people drop out sooner or later, either by choice or because they fail to secure a tenured position. I was curious to see how far I would make it but ultimately leaving now on my own terms probably beats having to leave because I have to or getting stuck at a position I'm not happy about.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I think you would be better off pursuing a MD/DO over a PhD.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Academia IS a “normal job”. You’re an undergrad. You’re not even a full time scientist yet. In all honesty, what would you be quitting?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I would stay researching for the time you are a student and after finishing your PhD look for the way out: you will have a good filled CV and can do better-paying jobs than teaching or nursing. I have made the decision this year to go for one last round of applying and getting a postdoc but I will effectively be using that postdoc as a way to save up some money and invest in my own business. You tal about red eyes and fatigue with your colleagues: indeed, for those who are lucky to have a job, there is a great deal of stress to get results to get the new grant, get published, and get the next contract. It's not fun anymore for a lot of people.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Academia IS a “normal job”. You’re an undergrad. You’re not even a full time scientist yet. In all honesty, what would you be quitting?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Of course it's not bad to want that. In fact, if that's what you want you are actually pretty lucky. There are plenty of normal jobs and few academic jobs. Whenever your demand lines up with supply, you're golden.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Academia IS a “normal job”. You’re an undergrad. You’re not even a full time scientist yet. In all honesty, what would you be quitting?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "What specifically do you think you can't handle? If you like research, bit don't want the stress of postdocs / professors you could persue a research assistant/technician position. They're more readily available and easier to get, you get to be I the lab 90% of the time and you don't have as much stress. The only stress I have is my yearly contract which depends on my PI securing funding, but luckily I'm in a well funded lab. Alternatively, there are a few permanent positions available in medical labs etc.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Academia IS a “normal job”. You’re an undergrad. You’re not even a full time scientist yet. In all honesty, what would you be quitting?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I think you would be better off pursuing a MD/DO over a PhD.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I worked in “industry” among PhD-level folks before entering my PhD program. I’m currently in my fourth year and work closely with early career profs. Here’s my perspective. Every job has its downsides and it’s up to you to decide what strengths you really value and what drawbacks you won’t tolerate. For example, many profs love to boast that they can do work whenever is best for them, not just during 9-5. A lot of folks also love “not really having a boss.” For them, these things are great. For me, I hate these same qualities. Having clearly defined work hours gives me comfort and allows me to clearly delineate between working hours and personal hours. Similarly, having a boss, in my eyes, can be a really good thing if you have a good one - they take care of things on your behalf (budgets, tough calls related to staffing, priorities, etc.), giving you more time to devote to the actual stuff you care about. Profs also love to boast the security of tenure, but for me personally, I think tenure is a super problematic system. Yes, I’d love the job security, but this system also protects abusive people by making it hard to terminate or reprimand them as long as they’re successful researchers. I think it’s a deeply personal decision, but would agree with others that profs are a biased group of people, often coming from a different generation where it was not quite as impossible to get a tenured position. Consider what’s important to you, the potential downsides of each type of job, and that will help guide you.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Most people on this subreddit have a different experience than mine. I'm a first-year PhD student in Europe, computer science. While I do get paid less than in the industry (about 2-5x less), I get paid to work 40 hours per week and I work 40 hours (or less). I don't work overtime and I am not under a tremendous amount of pressure. I don't study at a prestigious university and my work is not (and probably will never be here) ground-breaking, but I like doing my work and in my tiny niche I feel like I can contribute to the field. I feel like the pressure people feel is not due to academia but due to them not having a definition of success that takes into account their emotional and physical health. Academia just doesn't discourage that, while some industry jobs do. Before studying for a PhD I worked in the industry for a couple of years. I see people working 16 hour days on both sides.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I worked in “industry” among PhD-level folks before entering my PhD program. I’m currently in my fourth year and work closely with early career profs. Here’s my perspective. Every job has its downsides and it’s up to you to decide what strengths you really value and what drawbacks you won’t tolerate. For example, many profs love to boast that they can do work whenever is best for them, not just during 9-5. A lot of folks also love “not really having a boss.” For them, these things are great. For me, I hate these same qualities. Having clearly defined work hours gives me comfort and allows me to clearly delineate between working hours and personal hours. Similarly, having a boss, in my eyes, can be a really good thing if you have a good one - they take care of things on your behalf (budgets, tough calls related to staffing, priorities, etc.), giving you more time to devote to the actual stuff you care about. Profs also love to boast the security of tenure, but for me personally, I think tenure is a super problematic system. Yes, I’d love the job security, but this system also protects abusive people by making it hard to terminate or reprimand them as long as they’re successful researchers. I think it’s a deeply personal decision, but would agree with others that profs are a biased group of people, often coming from a different generation where it was not quite as impossible to get a tenured position. Consider what’s important to you, the potential downsides of each type of job, and that will help guide you.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "What specifically do you think you can't handle? If you like research, bit don't want the stress of postdocs / professors you could persue a research assistant/technician position. They're more readily available and easier to get, you get to be I the lab 90% of the time and you don't have as much stress. The only stress I have is my yearly contract which depends on my PI securing funding, but luckily I'm in a well funded lab. Alternatively, there are a few permanent positions available in medical labs etc.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I worked in “industry” among PhD-level folks before entering my PhD program. I’m currently in my fourth year and work closely with early career profs. Here’s my perspective. Every job has its downsides and it’s up to you to decide what strengths you really value and what drawbacks you won’t tolerate. For example, many profs love to boast that they can do work whenever is best for them, not just during 9-5. A lot of folks also love “not really having a boss.” For them, these things are great. For me, I hate these same qualities. Having clearly defined work hours gives me comfort and allows me to clearly delineate between working hours and personal hours. Similarly, having a boss, in my eyes, can be a really good thing if you have a good one - they take care of things on your behalf (budgets, tough calls related to staffing, priorities, etc.), giving you more time to devote to the actual stuff you care about. Profs also love to boast the security of tenure, but for me personally, I think tenure is a super problematic system. Yes, I’d love the job security, but this system also protects abusive people by making it hard to terminate or reprimand them as long as they’re successful researchers. I think it’s a deeply personal decision, but would agree with others that profs are a biased group of people, often coming from a different generation where it was not quite as impossible to get a tenured position. Consider what’s important to you, the potential downsides of each type of job, and that will help guide you.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I think you would be better off pursuing a MD/DO over a PhD.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": ">Perhaps something like teaching or nursing Those jobs will have their own challenges. I've considered dropping out and go open a bakery or something just so I can get rid of my current miserable life but I'm currently under pressure and not thinking straight. In all likelihood I'd regret it later on. I should point out many of my PhD colleagues couldn't be happier, they just don't go around voicing it on Reddit.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Most people on this subreddit have a different experience than mine. I'm a first-year PhD student in Europe, computer science. While I do get paid less than in the industry (about 2-5x less), I get paid to work 40 hours per week and I work 40 hours (or less). I don't work overtime and I am not under a tremendous amount of pressure. I don't study at a prestigious university and my work is not (and probably will never be here) ground-breaking, but I like doing my work and in my tiny niche I feel like I can contribute to the field. I feel like the pressure people feel is not due to academia but due to them not having a definition of success that takes into account their emotional and physical health. Academia just doesn't discourage that, while some industry jobs do. Before studying for a PhD I worked in the industry for a couple of years. I see people working 16 hour days on both sides.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": ">Perhaps something like teaching or nursing Those jobs will have their own challenges. I've considered dropping out and go open a bakery or something just so I can get rid of my current miserable life but I'm currently under pressure and not thinking straight. In all likelihood I'd regret it later on. I should point out many of my PhD colleagues couldn't be happier, they just don't go around voicing it on Reddit.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "What specifically do you think you can't handle? If you like research, bit don't want the stress of postdocs / professors you could persue a research assistant/technician position. They're more readily available and easier to get, you get to be I the lab 90% of the time and you don't have as much stress. The only stress I have is my yearly contract which depends on my PI securing funding, but luckily I'm in a well funded lab. Alternatively, there are a few permanent positions available in medical labs etc.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": ">Perhaps something like teaching or nursing Those jobs will have their own challenges. I've considered dropping out and go open a bakery or something just so I can get rid of my current miserable life but I'm currently under pressure and not thinking straight. In all likelihood I'd regret it later on. I should point out many of my PhD colleagues couldn't be happier, they just don't go around voicing it on Reddit.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Is it bad to want to quit and just find a normal job? Hi folks, I'm looking for advice on whether or not pursuing science academic career is worth the pressure. I know this varies greatly from person to person but I would love to hear your experience. I am a Canadian third year undergrad in biochemistry and I absolutely love the science (like little-kid-in-a-candy-store love the science) and really enjoy the work surrounding research BUT I am finding the more exposure I have to it the more I hate the culture surrounding science. It affects me less because I am just an undergrad, but I see the effects the pressure has on my mentors and the seniors and I am starting to wonder if it would be better to get out now and pursue an \"easier\" career. Perhaps something like teaching or nursing with well defined job expectations and outcomes. I currently have an undergrad research position and will have one lined up every semester and summer until I graduate, as well as a Master's supervisor should everything go well (I didn't even approach them for the most part, they approached me and I went with it because it sounded like a good idea), but I don't want to waste their time if I am just going to switch paths. &#x200B; If anyone is willing to share any perspectives on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to be a scientist because I LOVE the science, but I am not sure it's worth killing myself over small things every day of my life.", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I think you would be better off pursuing a MD/DO over a PhD.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "At some point you need to define for yourself a work life balance. There is no time card in academia. You could work 50 hours a day and there would always be more to do. More to read, more to write, more ways to pad your CV. And no one is going to stop you except you. Do you want to write that next article, or do you want to have that time for yourself, whether it's for a relationship or anything else", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You need to make time because you'll never find it, out there, especially if your mindset is \"I could use this time to write the next article or advance my relationship.\" I don't mean to be rude - I totally get that mindset - but I've seen that mindset blow up some relationships (including ones I've had!) To your question about it taking away from my career? No, because my career isn't the most important thing in my life. I've had to work hard to separate me (as a person) from me (the academic) and decide what my priorities are and how to put time towards them in a balanced way. Took years and a few good therapists, but I have (and continue) to advance my career without feeling like I can't dare afford anything else (relationships, geographic control, etc). It means I let go of certain things, but I know they're not things I really want (even if they seem shiny and wonderful). FWIW, I think your program sounds like it is particularly difficult to function (as a person) in and, while you can't change that, you can think about future opportunities that encourage very different ways of doing research.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "At some point you need to define for yourself a work life balance. There is no time card in academia. You could work 50 hours a day and there would always be more to do. More to read, more to write, more ways to pad your CV. And no one is going to stop you except you. Do you want to write that next article, or do you want to have that time for yourself, whether it's for a relationship or anything else", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Clearly many in academia or other intense jobs are in relationships, and many are not for a variety of reasons, so it is doable. Having time away from writing a paper may feel like you are not investing 100% in your career, but having a partner to support you during the hard times of a career can be helpful, too. And having someone to help celebrate the good times is nice. I work insane hours and whatever relationship problems I have had aren't academia's fault. Some people find they do well with a partner who has no career or a secondary career so that the professor has more time and less domestic responsibilities and can move wherever the professor needs. That is very old school and one might think outdated, but there are tons of professors in these roles, including some younger ones. Another path is to partner with someone who also has insane work hours as they tend to understand your situation and when they spend time with you, you know it is precious. That is my preference. Are marriage rates and divorce rates different for those in academia compared to other intense professions?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Ain't nobody writing \"he is survived by a loving career and CV\" in your obituary.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You need to make time because you'll never find it, out there, especially if your mindset is \"I could use this time to write the next article or advance my relationship.\" I don't mean to be rude - I totally get that mindset - but I've seen that mindset blow up some relationships (including ones I've had!) To your question about it taking away from my career? No, because my career isn't the most important thing in my life. I've had to work hard to separate me (as a person) from me (the academic) and decide what my priorities are and how to put time towards them in a balanced way. Took years and a few good therapists, but I have (and continue) to advance my career without feeling like I can't dare afford anything else (relationships, geographic control, etc). It means I let go of certain things, but I know they're not things I really want (even if they seem shiny and wonderful). FWIW, I think your program sounds like it is particularly difficult to function (as a person) in and, while you can't change that, you can think about future opportunities that encourage very different ways of doing research.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Ain't nobody writing \"he is survived by a loving career and CV\" in your obituary.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Clearly many in academia or other intense jobs are in relationships, and many are not for a variety of reasons, so it is doable. Having time away from writing a paper may feel like you are not investing 100% in your career, but having a partner to support you during the hard times of a career can be helpful, too. And having someone to help celebrate the good times is nice. I work insane hours and whatever relationship problems I have had aren't academia's fault. Some people find they do well with a partner who has no career or a secondary career so that the professor has more time and less domestic responsibilities and can move wherever the professor needs. That is very old school and one might think outdated, but there are tons of professors in these roles, including some younger ones. Another path is to partner with someone who also has insane work hours as they tend to understand your situation and when they spend time with you, you know it is precious. That is my preference. Are marriage rates and divorce rates different for those in academia compared to other intense professions?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Ain't nobody writing \"he is survived by a loving career and CV\" in your obituary.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Don't work so much", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You need to make time because you'll never find it, out there, especially if your mindset is \"I could use this time to write the next article or advance my relationship.\" I don't mean to be rude - I totally get that mindset - but I've seen that mindset blow up some relationships (including ones I've had!) To your question about it taking away from my career? No, because my career isn't the most important thing in my life. I've had to work hard to separate me (as a person) from me (the academic) and decide what my priorities are and how to put time towards them in a balanced way. Took years and a few good therapists, but I have (and continue) to advance my career without feeling like I can't dare afford anything else (relationships, geographic control, etc). It means I let go of certain things, but I know they're not things I really want (even if they seem shiny and wonderful). FWIW, I think your program sounds like it is particularly difficult to function (as a person) in and, while you can't change that, you can think about future opportunities that encourage very different ways of doing research.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Clearly many in academia or other intense jobs are in relationships, and many are not for a variety of reasons, so it is doable. Having time away from writing a paper may feel like you are not investing 100% in your career, but having a partner to support you during the hard times of a career can be helpful, too. And having someone to help celebrate the good times is nice. I work insane hours and whatever relationship problems I have had aren't academia's fault. Some people find they do well with a partner who has no career or a secondary career so that the professor has more time and less domestic responsibilities and can move wherever the professor needs. That is very old school and one might think outdated, but there are tons of professors in these roles, including some younger ones. Another path is to partner with someone who also has insane work hours as they tend to understand your situation and when they spend time with you, you know it is precious. That is my preference. Are marriage rates and divorce rates different for those in academia compared to other intense professions?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I got married during law school, prior to pursuing my Ph.D. My wife gives more meaning to my life than any work I do ever could. Work to live, don't live to work.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Clearly many in academia or other intense jobs are in relationships, and many are not for a variety of reasons, so it is doable. Having time away from writing a paper may feel like you are not investing 100% in your career, but having a partner to support you during the hard times of a career can be helpful, too. And having someone to help celebrate the good times is nice. I work insane hours and whatever relationship problems I have had aren't academia's fault. Some people find they do well with a partner who has no career or a secondary career so that the professor has more time and less domestic responsibilities and can move wherever the professor needs. That is very old school and one might think outdated, but there are tons of professors in these roles, including some younger ones. Another path is to partner with someone who also has insane work hours as they tend to understand your situation and when they spend time with you, you know it is precious. That is my preference. Are marriage rates and divorce rates different for those in academia compared to other intense professions?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I got married during law school, prior to pursuing my Ph.D. My wife gives more meaning to my life than any work I do ever could. Work to live, don't live to work.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Don't work so much", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I got married during law school, prior to pursuing my Ph.D. My wife gives more meaning to my life than any work I do ever could. Work to live, don't live to work.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "From the tone of your post—and I could be completely wrong—but it almost sounds like you are concerned about finding a relationship because you feel as if that’s…what you’re ‘supposed’ to do? Because if you love doing research and would gladly sit down to work on your next research article rather than spend time with a potential significant other, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s your life, it doesn’t have to fit into what society ‘expects’. But again, I may be incorrectly interpreting part of your post (and apologize if that’s the case). My experience: I started dating my now-husband a month before I began my Master’s, and we got married/had our first kid just before I started my PhD. There have been extra stresses in my PhD experience that aren’t as common (abusive advisor, LoA, etc) that put a lot of strain on our relationship—but without those extra things, even a normal PhD experience would’ve strained us, mostly because he often felt second to my career. From what I’ve heard from my mentors, their spouses have similar sentiments—they’ve at times willingly taken a backseat to their academic spouse’s career. Not all the time, but often. Once you find someone who accepts this, then your academic career may still need to morph into something that looks more like a 9-5 (but not, of course, since academia doesn’t permit that). For instance, my husband asks that at least one day out of the weekend is for family and no work. He asks for date nights weekly/bi-weekly, which is part to spend time together and part to force me to take a break. In the end, he will remind me that he knows who he married and what he was signing up for. But he deserves me at least making the effort to put him first, even if it sometimes doesn’t work out that way. I don’t know if any of my above experience/opinions help at all, but my short advice would be to perhaps wait until you’re closer to being tenured to settle down. From what I’ve been told, that’s the first time you can really ‘relax’ a bit and focus on things other than research. Or, potentially, date someone who is also in academia, so they better understand the demands of your job. It’s hard to find someone who’s willing to make the sacrifices you may need them to make. Just always be upfront about what your job demands. Again, sorry for the rambling and I hope most of it didn’t come across as nonsense 😅", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I got married during law school, prior to pursuing my Ph.D. My wife gives more meaning to my life than any work I do ever could. Work to live, don't live to work.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You will do better work if you have a better work life balance. This has been quantitatively demonstrated several times. Almost every single smart idea I've had (many of which save time) have happened on a weekend or after a vacation. It sounds a bit unusual that you would have any management responsibilities as a grad student. Are these necessary? Can you speak to your PI about offloading some of that work? It is difficult, but you need to figure out what is important to you. Be upfront with who you date about the time you can spend, you may even find someone in the same boat as you! In fact, there are actually dating apps for people in your situation (like 'the league', though it def isn't my style). Most people will be happy seeing you twice a week. I'm sure it would be reasonable to schedule your time to leave one weekday evening and one weekend day free for dates.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I got married during law school, prior to pursuing my Ph.D. My wife gives more meaning to my life than any work I do ever could. Work to live, don't live to work.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "The job will not save you", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I got married during law school, prior to pursuing my Ph.D. My wife gives more meaning to my life than any work I do ever could. Work to live, don't live to work.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "It didnt get better for me. So I left academia for industry and immediately had work/life balance plus plenty of $.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I got married during law school, prior to pursuing my Ph.D. My wife gives more meaning to my life than any work I do ever could. Work to live, don't live to work.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": ">Does it get better? This seems to be the crux of your question, and yes, for the majority of people it does get better once you finish your PhD. Like you noted yourself, you have a senior role in the lab, are teaching, and finishing the dissertation, so feeling overworked is to be expected. I've known several people that just had the dissertation to finish and that alone consumed most of their last year. There's nothing wrong with putting dating on \"pause\" for a year while you grind out the dissertation. Presumably you are also going to be starting a job search soon and that's also going to interfere with dating.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'll throw in my two cents as an about-to-graduate PhD student, who is married with a baby. >How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? I do not find time for all of it. Something has to give. Sometimes that's family life, sometimes that's work. My family absolutely takes time away from my career. And thank goodness for that. My life has so much more enrichment because of my family. So much more joy, fulfillment, and happiness. Don't get me wrong, I *love* my work. But it's got nothing on my home life. I think I would be very sad and lonely without my family. And I am grateful to have a reason to take breaks. So my advice is, make room for dating if you enjoy it. If you think finding a relationship will bring you joy then prioritize that. Don't do it because you are supposed to, but don't avoid it because you think your career should take precedence. Your work doesn't love you back, so you've got to make sure you love it enough for both of you if you're going to skip out on other love.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Clearly many in academia or other intense jobs are in relationships, and many are not for a variety of reasons, so it is doable. Having time away from writing a paper may feel like you are not investing 100% in your career, but having a partner to support you during the hard times of a career can be helpful, too. And having someone to help celebrate the good times is nice. I work insane hours and whatever relationship problems I have had aren't academia's fault. Some people find they do well with a partner who has no career or a secondary career so that the professor has more time and less domestic responsibilities and can move wherever the professor needs. That is very old school and one might think outdated, but there are tons of professors in these roles, including some younger ones. Another path is to partner with someone who also has insane work hours as they tend to understand your situation and when they spend time with you, you know it is precious. That is my preference. Are marriage rates and divorce rates different for those in academia compared to other intense professions?", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'll throw in my two cents as an about-to-graduate PhD student, who is married with a baby. >How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? I do not find time for all of it. Something has to give. Sometimes that's family life, sometimes that's work. My family absolutely takes time away from my career. And thank goodness for that. My life has so much more enrichment because of my family. So much more joy, fulfillment, and happiness. Don't get me wrong, I *love* my work. But it's got nothing on my home life. I think I would be very sad and lonely without my family. And I am grateful to have a reason to take breaks. So my advice is, make room for dating if you enjoy it. If you think finding a relationship will bring you joy then prioritize that. Don't do it because you are supposed to, but don't avoid it because you think your career should take precedence. Your work doesn't love you back, so you've got to make sure you love it enough for both of you if you're going to skip out on other love.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "Don't work so much", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'll throw in my two cents as an about-to-graduate PhD student, who is married with a baby. >How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? I do not find time for all of it. Something has to give. Sometimes that's family life, sometimes that's work. My family absolutely takes time away from my career. And thank goodness for that. My life has so much more enrichment because of my family. So much more joy, fulfillment, and happiness. Don't get me wrong, I *love* my work. But it's got nothing on my home life. I think I would be very sad and lonely without my family. And I am grateful to have a reason to take breaks. So my advice is, make room for dating if you enjoy it. If you think finding a relationship will bring you joy then prioritize that. Don't do it because you are supposed to, but don't avoid it because you think your career should take precedence. Your work doesn't love you back, so you've got to make sure you love it enough for both of you if you're going to skip out on other love.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "From the tone of your post—and I could be completely wrong—but it almost sounds like you are concerned about finding a relationship because you feel as if that’s…what you’re ‘supposed’ to do? Because if you love doing research and would gladly sit down to work on your next research article rather than spend time with a potential significant other, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s your life, it doesn’t have to fit into what society ‘expects’. But again, I may be incorrectly interpreting part of your post (and apologize if that’s the case). My experience: I started dating my now-husband a month before I began my Master’s, and we got married/had our first kid just before I started my PhD. There have been extra stresses in my PhD experience that aren’t as common (abusive advisor, LoA, etc) that put a lot of strain on our relationship—but without those extra things, even a normal PhD experience would’ve strained us, mostly because he often felt second to my career. From what I’ve heard from my mentors, their spouses have similar sentiments—they’ve at times willingly taken a backseat to their academic spouse’s career. Not all the time, but often. Once you find someone who accepts this, then your academic career may still need to morph into something that looks more like a 9-5 (but not, of course, since academia doesn’t permit that). For instance, my husband asks that at least one day out of the weekend is for family and no work. He asks for date nights weekly/bi-weekly, which is part to spend time together and part to force me to take a break. In the end, he will remind me that he knows who he married and what he was signing up for. But he deserves me at least making the effort to put him first, even if it sometimes doesn’t work out that way. I don’t know if any of my above experience/opinions help at all, but my short advice would be to perhaps wait until you’re closer to being tenured to settle down. From what I’ve been told, that’s the first time you can really ‘relax’ a bit and focus on things other than research. Or, potentially, date someone who is also in academia, so they better understand the demands of your job. It’s hard to find someone who’s willing to make the sacrifices you may need them to make. Just always be upfront about what your job demands. Again, sorry for the rambling and I hope most of it didn’t come across as nonsense 😅", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "I'll throw in my two cents as an about-to-graduate PhD student, who is married with a baby. >How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? I do not find time for all of it. Something has to give. Sometimes that's family life, sometimes that's work. My family absolutely takes time away from my career. And thank goodness for that. My life has so much more enrichment because of my family. So much more joy, fulfillment, and happiness. Don't get me wrong, I *love* my work. But it's got nothing on my home life. I think I would be very sad and lonely without my family. And I am grateful to have a reason to take breaks. So my advice is, make room for dating if you enjoy it. If you think finding a relationship will bring you joy then prioritize that. Don't do it because you are supposed to, but don't avoid it because you think your career should take precedence. Your work doesn't love you back, so you've got to make sure you love it enough for both of you if you're going to skip out on other love.", "role": "assistant" } ]

[ { "content": "Dating/marriage and Tenure Track Academia I am in my final year of my PhD and also in my late 20s. I am currently single but I find it constantly weighing on me that I feel like I should be dating if I don’t want to be single for the rest of my life but also the demands of academia are significant. I currently am fulfilling a senior role in my lab that is much closer to a postdoc than PhD student with regards to research and management responsibilities, that plus teaching activities, and finishing my dissertation leave me very busy and often overwhelmed. Every time I look at getting into a relationship I can’t honestly say I have the time that most people want. I don’t work a 9-5. I work kind of insane hours. Also, I worry that any time I dedicate to a relationship is time I could be spending writing that next article or doing XYZ thing to advance my career. Does it get better? How do you all find/make the time? Do you feel like it takes away from your career? Field: Engineering Title: PhD student Country:US", "role": "user" }, { "content": "You will do better work if you have a better work life balance. This has been quantitatively demonstrated several times. Almost every single smart idea I've had (many of which save time) have happened on a weekend or after a vacation. It sounds a bit unusual that you would have any management responsibilities as a grad student. Are these necessary? Can you speak to your PI about offloading some of that work? It is difficult, but you need to figure out what is important to you. Be upfront with who you date about the time you can spend, you may even find someone in the same boat as you! In fact, there are actually dating apps for people in your situation (like 'the league', though it def isn't my style). Most people will be happy seeing you twice a week. I'm sure it would be reasonable to schedule your time to leave one weekday evening and one weekend day free for dates.", "role": "assistant" } ]