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re : 5 . 1433 comparative method i re-read newmeyer 's original posting ( date 30 nov 94 ) and noticed that it has an implicit attack on the notion of " basic word order " for comparative purposes . this flows from his earlier question on how basic word order is variously defined by various analysts , implying that it lacks precision . to the extent that i have understood the responses so far , no one has responded to this particular point , so here goes - - basically in agreement with newmeyer , but with some criticism of the assumed larger implications for comparative reconstruction of syntax . i ' ll stick to what i know about linguistic events in europe since i expect the events to be more familiar to most readers than events in other language families , so that my examples may speak to readers ' previous ideas about particular linguistic events referred to below , and , under the best circumstances , provoke further discussion . to anticipate , the notion of basic word order is too simple-minded ( simplistic ? ) for diachronic purposes . fn : " could anything resembling latin syntax be reconstructed through comparison of the syntax of the modern romance languages ? " bw : should it ? the immediate ancestor of the romance languages is not latin but proto - romance . svo ? what about the exceptions , e . g . , french j ' ai rien fait etc . are n't they hints to certain historical complications . also aux inversion in standard french , e . g . , sont-ils venus ? standard french aux inversion is probably of germanic origin , not found elsewhere in romance . as for reconstruction of case ( cf . latin / english ) , with possible implications for earlier word order possibilities , case inflections remain on ( third person ) object clitics in all romance languages . when we consider deviations from svo word order in romance languages , we may suspect that the notion of " basic " word order is a villain to the extent that it invites the analyst to disregard less frequent or syntactically restricted word orders . this is not safe in internal reconstruction of syntax , while the most revealing procedure may be to do internal reconstruction of syntax within a language before using the comparative method to reconstruct within groups of languages genetically related by other criteria . in fact , the last point above is what is usually done , and is probably the only proper way to proceed , given the intent of the comparative method . always reconstruct a basic vocabulary first , on the basis of sound correspondences - - to justify genetic relationship among the languages . then consider syntactic comparison . problems with this necessary procedure will emerge in following discussion , but it remains necessary unless you want to reconstruct the syntactic evolution of a geographical area rather than of a genetic family . the latter may be a useful complement to assumed genetic reconstruction , but i think it is too digressive an idea for me to pursue below . now , what about preverbal object clitics in romance ? another hint of complications to the svo concept of romance . preverbal object clitic means ov - - but i suppose " basic " means when o has a noun not a pronoun as the head . and what aout the fixing of multiple object clitic order in romance ? e . g . , case order versus person ( inherent topicality ) order . that can't be reconstructed for latin because the clitics did not arise as distinct entities until proto - romance at the earliest . can a single or preferred clitic order be reconstructed for proto - romance , e . g . , dat-acc ( invariant in spanish and , i think , rumanian , but acc-dat seems to be older in french , now remaining only for third persons , i . e . , no inherent topicality difference therefore earlier case ordering remains - - french acc-dat may reflect germanic influence as well ? ) ? or did fixed clitic orders originally arise independently in various areas of romance ? in any case , how can we avoid the comparative method in addressing the problem of the origin of object clitic order in romance ? in sum , i think that the origin / s and evolution of fixed multiple object clitic orders in romance is a legitimate issue , and that it cannot be solved without recourse to the comparative method ( among others , of course ) . therefore , the comparative method cannot be dismissed in syntactic reconstruction . fn : " should we therefore reconstruct proto - germanic ( almost surely incorrectly ) as svo ? " bw : newmeyer 's reference to proto - germanic reveals even more than romance that " basic " word order is a villainous concept for reconstruction in this case , as if " basic " word orders can be compared across related languages to reconstruct " proto-basic " word orders , such that " minor " word orders can be ignored or reconstructed as " proto-minor " word orders . one principle which emerges from our knowledge of the historical record is that word order change does n't work that way , i . e . , word orders cannot be compartmentalized as " basic " and " minor " for diachronic purposes . principle : if we want to develop tools and principles for syntactic reconstruction , we will really have to consider the functions served by the various word orders at different times , and detect changes in their functions diachronically . in other words , word order change in a language must be studied in the context of the totality of functions of all its word orders at any given time . the difference between such a study and the study of change in " basic " word order , if the latter means anything at all , is analogous to the study of phonetic change and phonemic change . if analysts argue about the notion of " basic " word order , this is analogous to arguing about different concepts of the phoneme , and not about agreed upon linguistic facts . the fallacy of reconstructing " basic " word order for proto - germanic on the basis of the " basic " word order in current germanic becomes obvious according to the above principle because of the sov word order in subordinate clauses in continental germanic . and even this is not as invariant a property of the oldest texts as it is of the later standardised languages , e . g . , before middle german and dutch . english also clues us in to inversion by its many remnants , even without historical texts which reveal more similarities to continental germanic , e . g . , v - first following a subordinate clause or adverb , still common in the av bible . including english but excluding gothic which mirrors to the extent possible the new testament greek syntax from which it was translated , the earliest texts in germanic show , as far as i know , a tendency relatively favorable to verb-final in subordinate clauses , but much variation , later eliminated in the continental standards . this leads to arguments about whether or not the sov tendency was the break-up of an earlier more general indo - european sov tendency ( or earlier fixation ? ) which died in english and scandinavian ( including the still highly inflected icelandic - - creating problems even for simplistic functional arguments for the evolution of svo in germanic , so that the argument would have to be : it started as a reaction to the increasing unreliability of case distinction but spread for social reasons to languages that did n't need it . such an argument does not strike me as at all unreasonable ! ) . [ although i excluded gothic above , because of its malleable accommodation to greek syntax , its deviations from nt greek are quite revealing . most salient is the absence of a definite article , despite its occurrence in nt greek as well as in all other germanic languages . if gothic translation was totally serious about imitating nt greek syntax in all cases it could have adopted an unstressed demonstrative to imitate the greek article , as later germanic did ( in a sense ) . the most important question about gothic syntax is : is the malleability of its syntax innovative from proto - germanic ? - - if so , we will probably never know in what ways the gothic translations of nt greek stretched the limits of that malleability , and distorted the colloquial functions of word order in spoken gothic or more generally in the germanic of the third century . if sov was invariant in some ancestor , then why did it deteriorate in germanic ? at least as puzzling , how / why / when did germanic get aux inversion , even in yes / no questions . all indo - european languages show wh fronting for wh questions , so is there any reason to believe the proto - language did not . would i be buying what newmeyer is questioning with the preceding argument , cf . fn : " i have the impression that with increasing frequency , one comes across statements such as the following in the literature : " most of the attested languages in language family x have some syntactic property . therefore we can assume that proto - x had this property . " " bw : [ why with " increasing frequency " ? is the implication that copy-cat historical linguists are becoming less responsible than they used to be ( cf . the discussion of the spread of rumors about the number of eskimo words for snow ) , or that syntax is driving historical linguistics to pot ? ] to be safe , i guess ancillary arguments come in , like : considering how areally widespread the ie languages are , is it likely that the unanimity of wh first questions across ie is not reflective of the proto-language ? ok , so maybe wh fronting is proto - ie ( got a better explanation for the facts ? or reason to ignore them ? ) , but why aux inversion in germanic questions . and does the application of inversion to yes / no questions mean that there was a question marker in initial position ( wh question position ) with yes / no questions , as in " what / hullo , are you kidding me ? " ( such a marker " ibai " is found in gothic whenever the new testament greek original has " me : " ) . do n't get me wrong . i ' m not suggesting that an initial yes / no question-marker was a necessary condition for the inversion innovation in germanic . i ' m only observing that there was the option of such a marker , and anticipating ( if indeed it has not already been suggested ) that some analysts who are overly formal in their approaches to syntax might suppose the necessity of such a marker to motivate a mechanical generalisation of inversion from wh to yes / no questions . again , because such in - version occurs in all germanic should we not reconstruct it for proto - germanic . . qualification on all : it 's variable in gothic where it 's variable in nt greek : pronoun subjects usually do not invert with the verb , noun subjects usually do . ] a practical point is that , as far as i know , there is an issue about the differentiation of germanic into anything like the modern descendents before the 4 - 5th century . thus , if aux inversion goes back that far , does it matter if it spread from one germanic area to another or if it was part of proto - ( west ? ) germanic ? all innovations must spread before we recognise them as innovations in the language ( or dialect ) . historical linguistics does not study the evolution of the idiolect ( if such a concept as " evolution of the idiolect " is even coherent ) . finally , about typological arguments . when morphology-as - fossilized syntax and universal-typology of word order congealed in the early 1970s , some suggested that even before ie was sov it was vso . why ? because subject marking inflection follows the verb : v - s , get it ? inevitably , then , some suggested that celtic maintains the most archaic " basic " word order among the ie languages . this is another excess in diachronic application of ( whatever ) the notion of basic word order . the principal objection raised was that it is not obvious ( and even unlikely ) that only basic word orders morphologise . ( in fact , they may be least likely to morphologise . ) considering that s represents an unstressed anaphor in v - s , s might be in a minor word order position . [ and note that if basic word order means when the arguments are nominal , not pronominal , then discourse frequency is not criterial of basic , since at least most subject arguments are pronominal , if not merely inflectional . furthermore , if " basic " only counts the relative frequency of subject nominals , it is based on something which is quite rare in discourse : subject nominals ] . in any case , subject inflection following the verb stem is a widespread eurasian areal feature , extending into africa in semitic and various other branches of afro - asiatic . to some this might be taken as a clue to the correctness of nostratic and other super-family notions , to others an indication of an extremely old innovation having spread ( over millenia ? ) across families regardless of genetic relationship ( cf . the famous balkan area ) . still others might opt for coincidence . various other languages also have this feature , e . g . , kanuri in west africa and various new world languages . ( welcome to nostratic ? ) questions about the functions of position after the verb in so-called sov languages are raised by v - s inflectional order . the typological implications of this go beyond my current knowledge , although i dimly remember that various eurasian sov languages are different according to whether or what function post-verb - al position has in such languages . this is obvious , for example , in the contrast between eurasian sov languages ( with differences amongst themselves ) and the so-called sovx west african languages , where x is an adpositional phrase ( with complications about the origin of adpositional phrases in such languages which i will refrain from discussing here ) . since so many eurasian sov languages are also v - s inflectional languages , i do not know if there are sov languages which have a " minor " postverbal position for an anaphoric subject ( such that it turns up in other positions in certain constructions , so that we can demonstrate that it is not an inflection ) . maybe typology of relevant amerind languages will help solve this problem . but maybe we may also anticipate the reappearance of the party-spoiling question about the representativeness of curent language types to possible ( and former ) language types . no doubt an unwelcome ( and unhelpful ? ) thought to many . in this context it seems worth mentioning that mathematical probability arguments for various word orders , as i have seen them practiced , are not impressive , because of faults in their initial assumptions . for example , as far as i know , they invariably assume the validity of counting number of languages , regardless of the genetic relationship or areal contiguity of the languages counted . this seems unsound to me , particularly ignoring areal contiguity . for example , we find ( i think ) that the eurasian area , consisting of umpteen and umpred languages , has s . . . o word order ( ignoring the position of the verb as an independent variable ) . then in the new world we find large areas of contiguous s . . . o order , and separate areas of o . . . s order . maybe we should be calculating mathematical probability on the basis of contiguous area rather than number of languages . the surprising result might be that o . . . s is more probable than s . . . o ( where area is an independent variable , not individual language , of course . ) i ' m not sure what the implications of this might be , but one might be that o . . . s might have once been a more likely ordering strategy than it is now , and that the predominance of s . . . o across languages counted individually is largely the result of areal spread . [ if the spread of s . . . o is old enough , its predominance might even be the result of an absolute increase in the number of " languages " in the world all together . however , this is n't really relevant to my criticim of the way probability arguments have been applied to syntactic typology , only to the historical implications of adequate assumptions about language typology . in fact , i ' ll leave this discussion with the already widely accepted suggestion that strategies for information distribution in the clause , esp . in terms of old / new , are more relevant to typology than such problematic notions for cross-linguistic comparison as subject and object . similarly , for example , i think that in eurasia , agent . . . patient / theme order largely cuts across ergative and accusative languages , even though ergative languages would have patient / theme , or whatever term you want , as subject . to this extent , s . . . o cannot be universal even in eurasia , without confusing " accusative " definitions of subject and object , where subject status is consistent with case-marking , and " ergative " definitions , where case-marking is more closely tied to transitivity role than to the mushy cross-linguistic concept of subject . ] fn : " and furthermore , syntactic change can be fairly catyclysmic , restructuring grammars wholesale in one generation - - unlikely or impossible with phonological systems . " bw : i think the thrust of fn 's suggestion here is largely right , though probably vastly overstated ( on the basis of older ideas about creoles ? ) . however , questions remain in my mind about conditions under which these things happen . within monolingual areas ( or among closely related , mutually intelligible languages , ( certain types of ? ) syntactic strategies seem to have the potential to spead quite quickly , perhaps almost as quickly as new words and expressions , while comparable speed is not generally observed for phonological change ( and is probably " unlikely or impossible " , as newmeyer puts it , for both internal linguistic and social reasons - - in fact , i think " unlikely " is more accurate than " impossible " depending on the nature of the particular type of phonological change , and i have an example of possible single-generation phonological change in the current english of the african americans in new york city area , but i do not have sufficient data to make this possibility or its implications worth discussing here - - until i get to the section in labov 's new book where he discusses recent innovations in the chicago vowel system i will not be sure if he has other examples ) . however , to the extent that language-contact propels " cataclysmic " syntactic change ( in the historical record ) fn 's suggestion is not so clear . for example , english in east la ( a mexican american community ) is more immediately strikingingly different from adjacent english dialects on the phonological than on the syntactic level . and that applies to monolingual speakers of east la english as well as spanish - english bilinguals , and to various phonological segments as well as intonational contours ] . in understanding historical syntactic evolution , it is most often difficult to distinguish internal evolution from language contact ( hence the sour regard for substratal theories during the late 19th - to-mid 20th c celebration of neogrammarian achievements ) - - and then there is also jakobson 's caution that language contact might not permit evoluton that is not internally possible anyway , rather that it can only promote one possible direction of change as opposed to other possible directions which might flourish under other external circumstances . this too i consider problematic as a blanket statement , but a major consideration to keep in mind as a possible constraint on change in most reconstructive expeditions into the unknown past . enough . these are my thoughts about the problems of using the comparative method alone to reconstruct syntax . but nobody would suggest something so foolish as not enlisting all possible tools of reconstruction , including internal and typological in addition to comparative . conversely , it would be equally foolish to shun the comparative method as a reconstructive tool . in any case , the notion of basic word order is not helpful to syntactic reconstruction , if not of doubtful value as an autonomous observation about the synchronic state of any language as well . i mean it 's ok to observe that english and french are both synchronically svo ( spoken french even more than english - - not least because of the former 's preferred question formation strategies ) , but without further discussion that does not mean that their syntaxes are " basically " the same , in any insightful or interesting ( to coin an adjective ) sense . i would like readers to react to any of the points i have made above , not least of all the accuracy of the facts i have suggested for various languages , since i am not an expert in the areas of most of the facts i have presented , e . g . , current typological theory , indo - european linguistics , eurasian and new world areal syntactic characteristics . benji

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accents in classroom i received a number of helpful and informative responses from a few colleagues and i am grateful to all of them . below please find a digest of the responses . first of all , barbara partee provided the background information on the case itself , which was playing out practically in her own backyard . on july 7 , 1992 , barbara partee ( partee @ cs . umass . edu ) wrote to me : " i ' m keeping an eye on the westfield accent uproar because it 's not far from here and there 's something about it in the paper almost every day , including editorials . i ' ll be glad to help keep you updated on news , and i would appreciate receiving any references you find out about to research that shows that the parents have nothing to worry about . ( an article in a local paper today , about reactions , said in the last paragraph " linguists said that , as long as the teacher is comprehensible , parents concerned about having a good " model " in the classroom to help their children become americanized quickly in their speech have little to worry about . " but no names or references . ) what happened was that early last week a petition signed by 403 residents of westfield , mass . was given to the school board in response to a decision to reassign two bilingual education teachers to positions as normal classroom teachers . the petition urges that no teacher be assigned to first or second grades " who is not thoroughly proficient in the english language in terms of grammar , syntax , and - most important - the accepted and standardized use of pronunciation . " the mayor of the city , a greek immigrant with an accent , and a proponent of english - only laws , and chair of the city 's school committee , has been vocally in favor of the petition . it has been denounced by the state 's secretary of education , piedad robertson , a native of cuba and a former kindergarten teacher herself , who immediately came out with the statement that the proposal " would appear to be discrimination , plain and simple . . . . this petition , instead of fostering the acceptance of cultural diversity , would appear to encourage bigotry , racism , and discrimination . " the mayor in a phone interview june 30 dismissed her attack as " bovine scatology . " the state 's attorney general has offered th opinion that the plan would almost certainly violate the state 's anti-discrimination laws . an article today ( both articles i ' m quoting from are in the daily hampshire gazette , of northampton , though there was also a mention in sunday 's nytimes ) says the mayor , george varelas , says he has been getting calls from all over the country , mostly agreeing with his point of view . the two parents who started the drive are expressing great surprise ; the wife , " who is of spanish and portuguese descent , has become so distraught over accusations of bigotry . . . that she has taken to avoiding people . " the city has about 36000 population and a broad ethnic mix . but like most of what one reads about the english only movement , there 's a great deal of debate about whether it 's racist or xenophobic , etc . , and very little about the fundamental question that you raised , namely does it in fact have any effect on the acquisition of english by the children in the classes ? " throughout last week , i was forwarding the responses to barbara and she was updating the story as things evolved . on july the 8th , she was contacted by a reporter of the westfield paper , and she asked me for ( and , of course , received ) permission to use the materials i had in her interview with the paper . on july the 9th , barbara wrote : " by the way , i heard second hand that the school committee or a subcommittee thereof just voted this morning 3 - 0 not to adopt the petitioners ' request . i ' ll know more by this evening 's news . i expect the newspaper article that our stuff went to will appear tomorrow morning . i ' ll let you know . this is happening quicker , and coming out more emphatically on the right side , than i had expected . " the article appeared on friday , july the 10th , and barbara is likely to post it here on monday . as you will see , the reporter was absolutely fascinated by the fact of the ongoing worldwide discussion of the issue on a computer net . the same issue of the same paper ran a syndicated column by william raspberry on the subject . i have not yet found a paper available here that runs bill raspberry . that was the chronicle , and now for the substance of the responses . a couple of people suggested that the petitioners ' concern was about the teachers being comprehensible to the grade school students . this is , of course , a most legitimate concern , and many states , school corporations , and universities have taken measures to protect their students from incompetent english speakers . apparently , however , this was not the petitioners ' concern , and the core of the issue was their belief that the students would acquire the foreign accent of a teacher . all the responses on this subject shared the conviction that it could not happen . michael covington ( mcovingt @ uga . cc . uga . edu ) : " my own rather limited experience is that children are n't even influenced by the foreign accents of their _ parents _ , much less teachers . " cliff miller ( miller @ defun . cs . utah . edu ) : " of course it is possible [ for a grade school student to be influenced by the teacher 's foreign accent ] , but it is highly unlikely that it will be complete or long-lasting . and perhaps the more important question is : does it matter ? i grew up in several different places and my english has undergone a number of shifts - - i even had a japanese accent for a while . my english is quite native now and i do n't think that the different stages it went through did it any harm . . . . " craig thiersch ( thiersch @ kub . nl ) : " i ' m afraid i do n't have any citations from linguistics literature , and our phonologist is n't here today , but you ' re right : it 's more or less common knowledge that children virtually always acquire the accent of their peers , not that of parents , teachers , or other adults . i can think of countless examples from my own experience : for instance , i used to live in boston , where you can cut the local accent with a knife , and played organ for a church in arlington , mass . , where the pastor and his wife were from the mid - west . but all their children had strong " towny " arlington accents . " amy sheldon ( asheldon @ vx . acs . umn . edu ) : " i was interested in learning that your daughter never acquired the pronunciations of the 3 adults at home , when they differed from , i assume , the local dialect . i can add that our 9 & 12 year olds do not have any of their father 's quebec french pronunciations or translations in their speech and on occasions when they have had his speech forms / usage , they seem to get rid of it when they learn the local dialect . that is , his speech does not persist in theirs . they also recently asked me if i thought that daddy had a foreign accent . they said they did n't think so . i must admit , that i have to stop and think a second before i realize that he does indeed have an accent , and that on reflection , our kids will admit to it too . but there is a sense in which we do n't think on a minute to minute basis of him as speaking differently from us , though certain pronunciations or translations on occasion may strike us noticeably . i 'd imagine that students in a class with a nonnative teacher muight have the same perceptions , esp . if the teacher is fluent in english , although having an accent . this is a good " applied linguistics " example . " the only references that the discussion has yielded so far were contributed by catherine doughty and susan ervin - tripp . catherine doughty ( catherine . doughty @ linguistics . su . edu . au ) : " the ability " to be affected by phonology " seems to be the earliest of thing to go in terms of maturational constraints on language acquisition - - see the work of johnson & newport 1989 in cognitive psychology 21 . j & n set the age of the beginning of the decline at 5 or 6 . another interesting case that is analogous in some ways but not others is the case of simon a profoundly deaf child of profoundly deaf parents . simon 's parents were late acquirers of asl ( learned at ages 16 & 15 ) and so provided non-native and very different versions of asl to their child . they are his only source of input , as simon goes to a " normal " school where no one knows any asl . simon 's asl is comparable to the asl of children who learn asl from native signers - - e . g . , nativelike . ( singleton 1989 dissertation ) . susan ervin - tripp ( ervin-tr @ cogsci . berkeley . edu ) : " it would be nearly impossible for a child to be influenced by the accent of a grade school teacher unless it was the prestige accent of the community , and the child knew it . as labov showed convincingly , kids get their accents from their peers . on the other hand , i ran into some reported cases of children who preserved the accents of their immigrant parents , but these were unusual cases of socially isolated children . for example , in the clinical literature i found a case of an 8 year old who immigrated at 3 , and still had " his father 's accent " . as he was psychoanalyzed ( ! ) he lost his accent , spoke like his peers , and became able to mimic the accent at will . buxbaum , psychoanalytic quarterly , 18 , 279-289 ( 1949 ) . " - - victor raskin raskin @ j . cc . purdue . edu professor of english and linguistics ( 317 ) 494-3782 chair , interdepartmental program in linguistics 494-3780 fax coordinator , natural language processing laboratory purdue university w . lafayette , in 47907 u . s . a .

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thank you ! gina , this one is going to enron transportation services - houston i want to take a moment to say " thank you " to all the employees who participated in the ets food & toy drive . we delivered over 10 boxes of food and toys on friday to the downtown location of the head start program . there are many people in the houston community who need our help and support , especially during the holiday season . through your kindness , the head start program , ets ' adopted united way agency , will be able to help those less fortunate . the pictures below capture some of our employees displaying the donations that were collected in the enron building . the collections in three allen center were significant as well . thank you , again , for your overwhelming generosity .

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