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krishnamurti_discussions

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Right? I don't know how to discuss with you, you don't seem to take share in this. You just listen, nod your head or agree.
All memory, all knowledge is in the past, isn't it? (Inaudible) (Inaudible) He asked, sir, what do you mean by the past. It's in your mind, it's in the brain cells, in the very structure of the brain cells hold all the memories.
An experience you pass through and that leaves a mark; the mark, the knowledge, the information is there in the brain cells but it is already over. Isn't it? It is finished.
I have experienced an insult yesterday, that has been registered in the mind, in the brain cells, that has left a memory and that memory was of yesterday's insult. That's what I mean, the past. And most of our memories are in the past in that sense.
Yes, sir? (Noise of aeroplane) Just a minute, sir, let the aeroplane have its voice. Yes, sir?
(Inaudible) Is every memory in the past. Are there memories that are actually taking place now? Is that what you mean, sir?
Can there be? (Inaudible) . Cannot be.
There might be just some of the memories... I am exploring. I am asking.
And these memories, modified in the present, project 'what should be' in the future. So the movement of memory from the past, through the present to the future, but the whole movement has its source in the past. Right?
Please, don't agree with me, just observe it in yourself. So what is that relationship, what is the relationship of this movement to the present? Right?
Then what about this creative relationship? Sir, don't jump to creative - you don't even know what... Let's go step by step into it, sir. What is the relationship of this movement, what is the action of this movement with the movement of life, the living.
Sir, what is memory? You can see if you learn a language you accumulate all the verbs, the words and how to put the words together and so on, so on - that is a linguistic memory, memory composed of many, many, many words, verbs, irregular verbs and the usage of that. That's one type of memory.
Then there is the whole scientific, technological memories. Right? Which we acquired through so-called education, the cultivation of memory through technological information.
Right. Then there are all the psychological memories, the memories of... the memories that come about through human relationship - right? - my wife, my neighbour, my children, my husband - psychological relationship.
Then there are all the racial memories, the racial memories being the memories of the culture in which I have lived. Right? Then there are all the ideological memories.
I don't know if you... So my mind is full of these linguistic, technological, scientific, engineering and all the rest of it, psychological memories which I have accumulated during the last twenty years, or thirty years, or fifty years, or eight years, and there are all the racial memories, and so on. My mind, this mind is composed of all this.
Right? The consciousness is the content of all this memory. (Inaudible) I am trying to - sorry - shall I go... What is instinct?
Oh, good lord, we are talking about memory, sir. We haven't even finished it. (Inaudible) Just let us go into this, it is fairly complicated, sir.
I won't go into consciousness because that leads to all kinds of things. So the brain cells contain all this, all in contradiction. Right?
Please see, observe it in yourself. All in the scientific knowledge and the racial knowledge, the personal knowledge, they are all opposing each other, all moving in different directions from each other. And the content of the brain cells are this vast collective memories, and from that memory, consciously or unconsciously we act.
So knowledge as memory, as experience, is always in the past - always in the past, must be - and respond to the present from the past, so there is a contradiction. Right? What do you mean by contradiction?
I'll show it to you. You see, those, sir, they don't even - they agree immediately, they shake the... No I don't. Not you, sir, just a minute, sir.
(Laughter) I didn't say you, sir. Memory also means, sir, we acquire more and more knowledge. Yes, you acquire more - that's what I am saying - accumulate, accumulate.
(Inaudible) I haven't understood the latter part of your... Some of the knowledge acquired is also forgotten... Of course, sir, yes, but it's all there. Now I was saying that the past with all the memories is in contradiction with the present.
You say well, what do you mean by that? And some say, 'I don't agree with you'. Now what do we mean by... what do I mean by that?
- the past is in contradiction with the present - right, sir? - what do I mean by that? I have been insulted yesterday, you insulted me, or flattered me.
That has left a mark on my mind an image of you who have insulted or flattered, and I meet you the next day. That image, that memory projects, interferes in the observation of you now. You might have changed, you might have, are bound to, have gone tremendous lot of changes, and I come with a past memory and meet you with that image of that insult, so there is a contradiction.
If I can meet you without that insult with its memories I meet you afresh. In that there is no contradiction, though you may not have changed, or you might have changed. I approach you with a mind that is freed from yesterday's insult, in that there is no contradiction.
There is nothing to agree or disagree about this matter. So, the past has its own movement - right? - accumulating, discarding, modifying, adjusting - it has its own movement.
That is, if one is a doctor there are so many new investigations, examinations, information, diagnosis, and this is accumulation of knowledge which is also a movement. I don't know if you are following that. And also life has also its movement.
No? What do you mean by life has its movement? What do I mean by life has its own movement.
All right. We see knowledge as a movement from the past through the present to the future, adding, taking away, modifying and so on. That's a movement, isn't it?
It is not dead static thing. Right? And do I realize that the past is interfering in a relationship which is also a movement?
(Inaudible) How I make use of past memory. I am going to show it to you in a minute, I am just looking at it, sir. Look at it first.
That is, the past is a movement, it is not a dead thing, because there are experiences being added to it all the time, modified, changed, adjusted, it's a movement. At one level it is very, very superficial, and at other levels it's very, very deep, so between the superficial and the depth there is a contradiction, there is a variation. I am technologically terribly advanced but I am still a narrow bigoted Christian or Catholic or a Hindu.
So there is a variation, there is a contradiction. Unless this contradiction ceases there must be conflict in my relationship. Isn't it?
The movement of the past can be in harmony with the present, can't it be also? The movement of the past can be in harmony with the present. Now wait a minute, what is the present?
Tell me, sirs, what is the present? Do you know what the present means? Now.
Wait, just, before you answer, please, I haven't finished the question. What is the present? Present is now, while you are sitting?
Is that the present? (Inaudible) Wait, enquire, sir, enquire, please. Is that the present, being here?
You are physically here but your thoughts may be... (Laughs) Or you might say, I am listening to what is being said, I am comparing it with what somebody else has said. So what is the present? Is it a chronological time as the present, the it is ten past whatever it is, is that the present, by the watch?
Is there such a thing as present? So to understand really deeply what it means, the present, one must understand this whole movement of the past. And you say, well, don't bother about that, let's live in the present.
That has no meaning. And there are a great many philosophies founded on this let's live in the present; forget it, doesn't matter what has happened, let's make the best of this awful life, now. So to understand the movement of the present, and it must be a movement otherwise it is not a present, one must go into this whole question of the past as memory, which is time.
Right? I must understand time to find out what is the present. And time is memory, time is something that has been put together, either vertically or horizontally.
And that is the memory which each of us has - linguistic, technological, psychological, traditional and so on, so on, so on - vast accumulation, both conscious and hidden. Right? Now let's find out how to observe or learn or be aware of the deeper layers of memories.
You follow? We are... Please, this interests you, or... Sir, it would be nice if you stick to the same I being hurt yesterday and again the same situation from you today.
My memory of yesterday modifies my reaction today. Quite right. You see, please stick to that same example...
I have been insulted yesterday and I have the memory of that insult and when I meet you I meet you with the image of that insult. So my relationship with you is through the image of that memory, through that recollection, so there is no actual relationship between you and me, only the memory of that insult. That's fairly simple, we can't stick to that example, I am sorry.
Suppose it repeats itself again. Ah. Suppose it repeats itself day after day.
You live with that image. Your next question is, how am I to be free of that image. Right?
Is that we are discussing? Should I be free of it at all? Should I be free of it at all.
You see... You have insulted me, you have robbed me, you have flattered me, and that has left a mark as memory. Memory is an image, as you the central figure in that image. And should I wipe away the memory of that insult, or that flattery?
Or you have robbed me, should I forget it, and be robbed next time by the same person? What should I do? What should I do?
I am very simple, you can rob me, I have nothing very much except a few clothes. So that is not a problem to me. But if you have a lot of things and you are robbed then you will think about it twice.
How to deal with a person who has hurt - you see, it is so complex really. How to deal with a person who has hurt you, both physically and psychologically. Physically in the sense, taken away your things, or hurt you physically, wounded you, or wounded you inwardly.
Now how to be free of this hurt - that's what I am coming to if you would go with me a little bit. Which is - let's go back - we were asking, there is this vast collection, complex memories, interrelated memories and contradicting each other. The conscious memories, knowledge, is necessary, technologically.
If I don't remember where I live I can't get home, I won't be able to speak the language, I won't be able to recognize you. So technological knowledge is necessary and I classify all the recognition, the information, the knowledge, scientific, biological, law, all that as superficial knowledge. Now there are all deeper layers of memories.
Now how shall I, how shall you examine all that, because they are constantly interfering, they are constantly modifying or changing the superficial. Right? So there must be an awareness, a recognition, or an understanding of the hidden.
Now how is that to be done? How is it to be done? Go on, sir.
(Inaudible) That's all. That's quite right. Yes.
Only you enquire into the hidden when there is trouble, when there is suffering, when there is pain. Or I make a mistake. The same thing, sir - mistake and all the rest of it.
And we live with great many mistakes, great many worries, great many problems, both superficially and so on, so on. I am asking you a question, which how am I, how is this conscious mind with all the information it has, which is also conditioned, how can that mind enquire into the deeper layers, into the very dark recesses of one's own brain, memories, how do you propose to do it? By wilful forgetfulness.
By wilful forgetfulness. By being aware of it. Go slowly.
Let me answer the gentleman. By wilfully forgetting it. Can you do it?
Say, 'I won't look behind the garden', and the filth is collected there. Can you wilfully deny this? So that is not all right, we can brush that aside.
The action of will, which is saying 'I must look into it', will not answer it, or wilfully saying, 'I will forget it' - it is there. Then what will you do? By being constantly aware.
By being constantly aware of what? Of it. Listen to the gentleman's question.
He says by being constantly aware of it. What is the 'it'? Past memories.
Past memories, hidden. How will you know it? So just watch it, sir.
Will you know it through analysis? Which is all the world is doing. Please, don't deny... (Laughs) You people... (Inaudible) I am asking, sir, that's just it, will you find out through conscious analysis the content of the hidden memories?
Right? Will you do it? - analysis, do you know what is implied in analysis?
There is the analyser and the analysed. Right? Right?
Who is the analyser that is going to analyse? Is the analyser different from the thing analysed? You don't know about all this.
And if you do analyse, it will take time won't it? No? Day after day, day after day, analysing, which you are doing, unconsciously or consciously you are always analysing.
And one hasn't enquired into the whole structure of analysis, what it means - oh, just analyse. I am pointing out to you, which is, when you analyse there is always the analyser and the thing to be analysed. There is a division in that, the analyser is the censor.
Right? Has assumed a position of authority because he says, 'I know more, I have learnt more, I can analyse the thing which I am going to...' - so he separates himself from the analysed and begins to analyse, to examine. In the examination, unless the analyser is completely free of the past, his analysis will be entirely wrong or partially wrong, therefore valueless.
And analysis implies time, because I have got so many memories and I have to examine each memory. Do you know what it means? It will take all my lifetime and by the time I am dead.
And time... when there is time between the completion of analysis other factors come into being, so there is no end to this process, therefore it is totally wrong. You are stuck, aren't you? No, sir.
I think all you are saying is that the analyser is equal to the conditioning we've had. That's right. To try to analyse the conditioning by the conditioning, you will never... That's right, that's right, sir.
So just try to pay attention to see everything... No, no, I am going to show it to you, don't come to any conclusion. I understand. Don't come to any conclusion, always examine, look.
So I have this problem. (Inaudible) Sir, we are trying to find out. (Inaudible) Sir, please.
Wilful discarding of memory, hidden memories, doesn't work. Deliberately saying to myself 'I'll forget the whole thing and start anew', you can't do it. Nor analysis will free the mind from the past, the past hidden as well as the insults which has left a mark.
I can't analyse, through analysis get rid of it. Because I have explained what analysis implies - observer and the -and so on, so on. So then what has... what shall I do?
You become conscious of it. You become conscious of it - conscious of what? (Inaudible) Therefore what?
That is, the past insult, I was insulted yesterday, that interferes in my relationship with you today who have insulted me. So can I, can the mind - listen to this quietly, please - can the mind forget that insult? Can the mind analyse that insult and discard it?
Right? Or both those ways take time and all the rest. Or is there a different way altogether?
You are following, you have understood my question? The mind cannot... (inaudible) It can only ignore it. Whether you... (laughs) whether you ignore it or forget it, it is still there.
I can ignore my tummy ache but the tummy ache is still there, or try to forget it. So, sir, just listen to the question, see the complexity of it first. Understand the question first.
You insulted me yesterday, I reacted to it, that reaction is from the past, with the collection of many hurts, and I respond. So how am I to completely wipe away that insult? You cannot wipe it away.
I am going to show it... Don't say it is possible or not possible, let's find out, otherwise I am a bundle of hurts, I am a bundle of excruciating pain because people have insulted me, trodden on me, bullied me. You follow? So I am asking, is it possible not to record - please listen - not to record any insult?
Is it possible, not after having recorded how to wipe it out, but how not to record at all? Right? You have understood my question?
I am going to... Please, investigate it with me. You insult me and that has left a mark, and from that memory, that memory is going to meet you tomorrow.
And it cannot be wiped away by will, by analysis. So that's gone. Then what shall I do, what shall the mind do not to record insults?
Never. Let's let the past go, we will deal with that presently, past insults, but no more recording of any insult, how is this to be done? Switch off the current.
(Laughter) Sir, recording... Wait. Switch off the current - who is going to switch it off?
What kind of inanity this is, sir, really. By being conscious that the person who has insulted you is not in harmony with you and then it is only a state of his mind... That's right, sir, but how are you going to not record his insult? Don't take it seriously.
But he is... All right, I don't take seriously, he calls me an ass, or whatever he does, what shall I do? Insults my wife or my husband or my children, hurts them, I can't help recording, the mind records. (Inaudible) Sir, look, I understand, sir, but I'll show you something much simpler than all this.
(Laughs) (Inaudible) Introspection. Analysis is introspection. Who is the person who is introspecting?
(Inaudible) Of course, sir. (Inaudible) Yes, I know, you gradually modify your reactions by gradually - then you are dead and other things happen. This is so simple.
The question is - please do pay a little attention to this - the question how am I, how is this mind not to record not only insults but pleasures, but experiences, pleasurable, painful, not to record so the mind is always fresh? You follow? That is the question, how is it to be done?