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Come on - that's simple - have you got it? By Jove! (Inaudible) So, there is, to any challenge if there is complete response there is no observer in operation.
That's a conclusion to you, not to me because I see it, it's a fact. You follow? So I say to myself can I live, is there a living in which every challenge is met totally - not mathematical problems,- you understand, because I don't know, I don't know scientific problems - any challenge in relationship, which is the most important thing in life, not mathematics only, because in relationship, in that relationship there are challenges, can I, can the mind respond totally?
Then if it can respond totally, there is no conflict and therefore there is no observer. Just see the fact, sir, see it, swallow it, chew it, let it be part of you. So in your life, daily life, which is relationship, can you live a way in which you respond totally to every relationship?
That means you have to be extraordinarily sensitive, energetic and aware in that relationship - when you're talking to the cook, to your servant, or to your boss or the factory - etc. That's two o'clock - let's leave it. We were yesterday trying to talk over the observer and the observed, and I'm afraid it was rather complicated - I'm not at all sure each one of us understood what was said.
But I'm afraid you're trying, aren't you, to understand what the speaker is saying. Don't bother. That's not at all important, what the speaker is saying.
What the speaker is saying we have this problem of existence with all its complexities - there is war, there is violence in our daily life, there is the religious divisions, there are the divisions caused by priests, by their idea of what god is and so on. There are the divisions of nationality, there are the divisions of racial hatreds and so on and on and on. The house is burning, not only your house but everybody's house is burning.
One may have put away a little money for old age, or bought a house or a flat or this or that, hoping to survive the chaos, and instead of understanding what the speaker is trying to convey, wouldn't it be better, far better if we, each one of us, looked at the problem of the world in which we are, of which we are a part. The world is not different from you, the world is you, we have built this world - the chaos, the uncertainty, the misery, the sorrow, the confusion - we have put it together, it is our world. So shouldn't we, instead of trying to understand what the speaker is trying to convey, wouldn't it be better if we took one of those problems, which is your problem.
Wouldn't that be better? Or are you rather uncertain about it? Haven't you problems?
Instead of worrying about my... I don't want to put on, what I say, to make it into another problem - you have enough problems. So in understanding your problem, really going into it very, very, very seriously, you and I will meet, completely.
But if you are trying to understand the observer and the observed, and all that I want to convey, you'll be confused still further. So what I propose, with your - what is it, goodness, kindness - that we take the problem of existence - your problem, your house, your relationship, your daily, monotonous, lonely, unacceptable existence. Can we start from there?
Wouldn't that be much wiser? So, now, this morning, what shall we talk about, discuss? - not discuss, converse together.
(Inaudible) Yes. Overpopulation. Fortunately I have no children.
What am I to do about it, what are you to do about overpopulation? You go to India, which I do every winter, except last year, and you see there are million people, crawling. For one job there are about , people - you understand?
- people sleeping in the streets. Tremendous population. China is the same, go to the East, it is burdened, and in Europe too.
So what are we to do? You and I, not somebody else - what are we to do about it? Join the Family Planning Board?
Advocate which is the best contraceptive and so on? Is that your major problem? Come on, sirs, is this what you want to discuss, talk over together, how to prevent... (Inaudible) Connection between life and death and the overpopulation.
Is that it? I don't quite understand the question then. You have talked in the past days about life and death.
Yes. (Inaudible) Yes, nature multiplies. Right.
And then what - what is the question, sir? (Inaudible) Why do we procreate - I think it is fairly clear, isn't it? (Laughs) Is that your problem?
(Laughter) Yes, sir? (Inaudible) Have I understood, sir - I'll have to repeat it. What is the factor of distortion in our life?
Is that it? (Inaudible) Wait, wait - what is the factor of distortion in our life? You understand?
I want to go straight, or walk easily, quietly, happily, with great energy, vitality and so on, but certain factors enter and distort the whole movement of life. There are certain seeds in one, conscious or unconscious, that bring about chaos, misery. Is that what you... That's right.
Now shall we discuss that? Is that your problem? (Inaudible) Yes, sir - goes to war.
(Inaudible) By buying a stamp, you're contributing to war. Now, you understand his first question. What are the factors that distort life?
What are the seeds, conscious or unconscious in one that bring about such disgraceful existence? Right? You want to talk it over together?
Rather fun, if we could go into it. Now how do you find out? I want to lead a good life, a sane, balanced, healthy life - intellectually, emotionally, and I want to have a very good physical body so that I function harmoniously, happily, easily.
I see this as an idea, or as an ideal, or I have a feeling for it, not as something outside but inwardly, innately. I feel this would be marvellous, if I could live like that. Now what happens?
What happens so that things go wrong? I take to drink - you follow? - everything goes to pieces.
Go on, sir, discuss with me - let's talk it over. Is it a factor of heredity, the genes? Is it there is a seed in me, in one, that has been so overlaid by environment, by the culture in which I live, and that seed begins to grow and distorts every... all my life?
Now what is that seed? I project ideas and ideals. He says ideals.
I have no ideal. I see the futility of ideals. I've dropped them.
I want to lead a really good, sane, balanced life, happy life, but something goes wrong. I want to find out if it is a seed in me, in one, that gradually puts out its destructive force. You follow?
I'm enquiring. Is it my parents, is it the society, is it the culture that I live in, that has compelled me to conform, shaped my mind and my heart, and when given an opportunity it breaks through. Which is it?
I've seen so many people in - I've lived a long time - from the age of fifteen I've seen this happen, with people of my own age - begin beautiful, you know, and gradually finish, destructive, cruel, brutal, self-centred, ugly, drunk. (Inaudible) Habit? (Inaudible) You have understood my question, sir?
You say ideals create this horror. I have no ideals, I don't look to a future life or to a future action - I want to live a life now, from day to day, happily, energetically, clearly. But at the same time there is a flowering of the ugly - the religions have called it the devil, the evil one - you follow?
- and the Hindus and the Asiatics explain it as karma - 'karma' being, the word 'karma' I believe means to act, and that action is conditioned by your past actions. So your actions control your life, therefore behave. If you don't behave properly this life, next life you're going to pay for it, therefore behave, and all that's involved.
So I want to find out why a human being who wants to live a straight, harmonious, active life, totally, all round, gradually goes to pieces. You've understood my question now? That was his question.
(Inaudible) I am afraid I haven't heard clearly, sir. (Inaudible) You're saying, at the very birth itself there is this destructive element. Not necessarily destructive, but the propensity.
Yes, the propensity is there. Yes. Sir, don't give me explanations.
I don't want explanations - there are about a thousand here, or nine hundred, we'll all give explanations - that doesn't solve my problem. My problem is, there is in me some seed which begins to flower over which I have no control, and that destroys my life. And I want to find out if I can put that seed... wipe it out, destroy it.
And I want to find out if that seed in me can be understood, resolved, so that I can live a normal - you follow? - all the rest of it. That's my problem - don't give me explanations.
I'm thirsty - you understand, sir? And don't give me ashes, which are explanations. What am I to do?
Sir, when things start going wrong it's because one starts to compare oneself... (inaudible) Yes, sir, you compare yourself, you imitate others, you conform to the social pattern, or reject the social pattern and react against that and try to form your own pattern. We know all this. But the seed goes on.
Yes, sir? (Inaudible) Look, sir - I've been brought up fairly well, educated, so-called educated, and it happens I take to drink. And gradually I drink more and more and more, destroys my brain cells.
What was the origin of it, why did I do this, when I could have walked as - you know - why did I take to drink, destroy myself? Doesn't this happen? Some of you take drugs - LSD, marijuana, pot, all the rest of it.
Why? You know very well it destroys your mind and you keep on taking it. I want to find out what is the factor in human beings that brings about this catastrophic activity.
(Inaudible) I know - yes, sir. You see it outside, I don't see it. Why don't I see it?
It comes to the same thing. (Inaudible) That's an explanation, isn't it? I want to find out why it happens, why in me... why do I do this thing?
Is it inevitable because the seed has been planted? You are following? Put yourself in somebody's place, sir.
(Inaudible) The seed can be the conditioning of the past, some weakness in the character, some unsolved desire - I want to be great and I can't be great. I see somebody capable, full of life and beauty and I would like to be like him but I can't. I'm jealous, I begin to hate, and escape through drink.
I know all this, I conform, or I compare myself with somebody and in that comparison - you follow? - I hate everything, because I can't reach up to that level, I'm jealous. So I take to drink, or drugs, or sex, or whatever it is.
Now after explaining all this, what am I to do? (Inaudible) If you would become aware of your so-called negative side, then perhaps it would disappear. Isn't this one of your problems?
You may not be so violently destructive, but there is these two sides, aren't there? You understand, sir? I want to be kind, generous, I want to have deep affection.
At the same time in its wake comes jealousy, antagonism, hate. Haven't you noticed all this? Now, how does this happen?
(Inaudible) I don't know. We are not meeting each other. (Inaudible) Because we identify with the seen instead of the seer.
You're not meeting my point. I want you to help me. (Inaudible) Yes, sir, I understand - I want you to help me.
I want to lead a good social life, and I suddenly become antisocial. I'm taking a different example. Nobody can help you.
Nobody can help me - can't you help me? How? No?
Then what is the point of your existence? I come to you with a problem. You're a human being.
(Sound of train) I come to you with my problem. You are a human being, you are educated, you have lived a long time, you have seen life. And I say to you, 'Please, for god's sake help me'.
Have you a right to say, 'No, it's your own job, you have to go through it'? Because you are also exactly in the same position, you're not different from me. In you there is that seed, in you there is the opposite of what you want to be.
So don't say you can't help me - that's an easy way out. It might be the right way out. It might be the right way out - is it?
Why is my solution good for you? No, no - you have this problem, haven't you? You have it.
(Laughter) I haven't got it, sir - this gentleman asked this question, and he says, 'What is the factor, what is the seed in me that makes all life so destructive, so ugly?' - which all of us have, either hidden or actively in operation. (Inaudible) Is it because we look for happiness outside instead of inside.
(Inaudible) So sir, let's settle this first - aren't you exactly in the same place of the questioner? Haven't you got this dual factor active in you? Wanting to be kind, generous, affectionate, full of beauty, and at the same time there is an ugly thing going on.
Haven't each one of you got this? So your problem is his problem - don't say, 'Well, I can't help you'. We have to solve this problem together, that's why you are there and we are sitting here.
(Inaudible) Please, I understand this. I can give explanations. I say, one of the reasons is the desire to be secure, another reason is the pursuit of pleasure, another reason is fear, the desire to have somebody to help you or to lead you, or some element in you which wants to escape from all this chaos.
I can give dozen explanations. At the end of it I'm still there. Look sir, haven't you been through all this before, haven't you heard inside yourself, or seen your friends going to destruction - haven't you observed all this, of which you are a part?
So what will you do, how will you stop the seed from operating, but only one movement, not double movement? Right? How will you do this?
(Inaudible) First, don't answer my question yet, please just listen to my question first. One sees this dualistic activity going on. I am asking myself how is this dualistic, the opposites to stop?
Only one continuous activity, not an activity which distorts the movement. Now what am I to do? Go into it - I'll show it to you in a minute.
Now first of all, is there a duality? Is there a duality? You understand?
The good and the bad, love and hate - is there this dualistic reality? You've understood my question? Or there is only one factor, not its opposite, because the opposite contains its own opposite.
Have you understood? When I say I must not hate, the 'must not' is contained in love. So the opposites contain each other.
Now, is that a fact, as it is a fact that it is raining? Do you see it as a fact, or is it just an intellectual concept with which you agree? It is not an intellectual concept when you hear that rain on the canvas.
It is raining. Right? You don't speculate about it - it is so.
Now, do you see it as clearly as you hear that rain? - that the opposites contain each other. Therefore there is no opposite at all.
Right? Look, I am jealous because my friend or my girl or my wife does something which I disapprove or goes away from me. I become furious, angry, jealous.
And I fight with jealousy, I rationalise it, I say, 'How stupid of me, let her go, what does it matter?' But yet the thing is boiling. You understand?
Now I say to myself, the fact is I have never loved her. You understand? Otherwise I wouldn't be jealous.
We have taken for granted jealousy is part of love. I heard a friend say the other day, 'Oh, without jealousy there is no love'. Now take that - love and jealousy.
You follow? Now, I'd better begin at the beginning. There are opposites, aren't there?
Sunny day and a rainy day; night, darkness and light. Right? There is a woman and man.
Now, psychologically are they opposites? Or only one factor and because I do not know how to solve that one factor, I invent other factors. Are we meeting?
Are we meeting each other? No. All right.
Look, I am angry. That's the only factor, isn't it? When I say, 'I must not be angry', that's a conclusion, that's an abstraction.
Right? But the factor is I'm angry. If I know how to resolve that anger, its opposite wouldn't arise.
Are we meeting each other? Right, sir? Are we meeting each other?
Oh, no. I am angry. Now can I solve that anger without resorting to its opposite, saying 'I must not be angry'.
The 'must not be angry' is its opposite. And that comes only when I can't understand the whole structure of anger and go beyond it. Right?
Now, so I say, can I understand this anger, not control it, not reject it, not yield to it, but understand it, have an insight into the whole structure of anger? If I do, then the opposite doesn't exist. You're meeting my point?
Please do come. Right? Shall we go on?
(Inaudible) If I don't hold my anger I am afraid I might kill somebody. Look, look. Before you kill somebody, try to find out if you can resolve the anger.
To control it is to suppress it. To say, 'I must not be angry' is to create the opposite, and therefore a conflict between 'must not be' and the fact that I am. Right?
Or if you try to escape from it, anger is still there. So now I do not escape, I do not suppress, I do not say, 'I must resolve' - there is anger. Now, how am I to go beyond... how is the mind to go beyond it, without creating its opposite?
You've understood? Please come on, sir, some of you understand this? Good.
Then come with me. Then what am I to do? Look what has taken place.
Before I tried to control it, which is a wastage of energy. Before I tried to suppress it, which is a wastage of energy. Right?
Before I tried to escape from it or rationalise it, which is an avoidance, an escape from the fact. Right? If I don't escape, control, suppress or try to rationalise it, all that energy is concentrated, isn't it?
Right? So I have got that enormous energy to deal with one fact, which is anger. Right?