eliwill/krishnamurti_discussions · Datasets at Hugging Face

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If I don't compare with you, am I dull? I don't know. Come on sirs.
Are you saying that if we go into comparison carefully without comparison, we shall get rid of one of the fragments of our fragmentation? That's right sir. Wait, wait careful now.
Are you going to get rid of fragments one by one? That will take a long time, won't it? I don't know.
Right, right. You don't know. I have got many I am jealous, envious, ambitious, greedy, violent, occasionally happy, suffering, believe in god, or not believe in god - these are my various fragments.
Am I going to put them away one by one? That would take too long. Therefore there must be a different way of looking at all this.
It seems that when we look we see the habit of comparison. I say that I see that I am comparing myself with another, perhaps that comparison will come to an end and I don't know what I am and I look. But it seems that there is some difficulty, in the act of looking there is a distortion.
That's right. At that moment it seems as if one fragment of the mind is looking at the rest of the mind... That's right? ...so the fragment that looks is a loaded fragment, it is senseless, it cannot see that that fragment is more important than the other fragment.
Why does the mind give to one fragment greater importance than to the other fragments? You have understood? You have understood my question sir?
Oh my Lord! Are we travelling together, or we are going somewhere else? The mind has given to one fragment greater importance, it is the judge - why?
Why has that fragment assumed greater importance over other fragments, though it is also a fragment - you understand? - why? You are all so puzzled, aren't you?
It gives oneself a sense of permanence. Which is what? Go ahead sir.
Well, I am here now so I must be here tomorrow. Which is, what he is saying, it gives a permanency. Yes.
Wait, wait. One fragment has assumed greater permanency than the other fragments. That fragment has a greater sense of security, greater sense of certainty, greater sense of clarity - why?
(Inaudible) Do look at it before you answer it sir. Take the question in first. It has a greater emotional power behind it.
A greater emotional power at that moment to hold that thing as permanent. We always want to feel that the entity that looks is something, and we are not prepared to face the possibility that it is nothing. You are going to find out sir, you're going to find out in a minute.
It begins to measure again. Yes sir. So look at it.
Without the observer sir. That's right sir. No, it is a marvellous thing, sir, if you go step by step into it, you will see it yourself.
That brings total freedom from fragmentation, you will see it in a minute. Why does one fragment assume the power or prestige over the other fragments? Is it part of our education?
Because intellectually we are terribly cultivated. To us the intellect is extraordinarily important and we say, 'Oh, well he is not so bright, you know, he is rather dull'. But the man who is very bright we say, 'What an extraordinary brain he has got!'
Have you noticed this? The intellectual capacity has been cultivated. To us the intellect has become a tremendous thing.
And the intellect is different from emotion, the intellect has power to argue, to discuss, to create, to build, and the emotion becomes rather sentimental, vague, unreal, therefore words become extraordinarily important, which is part of the intellectual playthings. So is it - go step by step - is it that we are educated to give to one fragment, the soul - you understand? - the soul or the body greater importance?
We are educated in this. To us the artist has greater value than the business man, the musician is much more important than the cook. You follow?
Is it that our whole education emphasises one fragment? I think sir that you talk about education as if it were something out there, that was imposed upon us. Whereas I really feel that we are willing to be educated in this particular way.
There is a kind of social contract among all the selves that this part of us will be pre-eminent. Yes sir. So you are saying our education is not over there, here, it is here.
And part of our education is to find out now how to learn to look at things differently. But we can't, because we are not educated, we are indoctrinated. That's right sir, that's perfectly right.
We are indoctrinated by the church, by the society, by the culture we live in. And one of the indoctrinations is, that there is an entity which is far superior than the other fragments, which is will. Right?
A man of character, a man of will, he will stand up against anything - you follow? - the hero. So can the mind be without the perceiver, who is the superior entity - right, you understand this?
- who is the past, can the mind observe 'what is' without the superior entity? The superior entity is the image which society has built - the Establishment. Right?
(laughs) So can the mind observe without the observer, the perceiver, which is the past? And when it is observing with the eyes of the past then it is wasting energy, therefore it cannot face 'what is'. You've got it?
So where there is no comparison, no ideal, no superior entity which guides, which dominates, which has will to say, 'I will' and 'I will not', which are all factors of division and therefore conflict. When you see this as you feel pain, when you feel this intensely everything drops. Now does this take place as we are sitting here and listening?
Or you are not completely paying attention, you are only half listening and therefore half learning and therefore not learning at all. (laughs) Come on, sirs. There is nothing left to do.
There is nothing left to do? 'I will' and 'I will not' - if you abandon that there is nothing left to do. No madam, I don't abandon it.
I see the truth of all this and therefore when I see something as true, then the false goes. It can be so much more subtle though than the sort of description of will which says 'I see' or 'I don't see'. Of course, much more subtle.
What I want to ask you is it true to say that as long as there is any conception of looking, or watching, one is still caught in this fragmentation. Of course. As long as there any conceptual observation... ...that I am looking.
Yes. Any conceptual, verbal, intellectual perception - there is fragmentation, obviously. Even the shadow.
Hm! Don't we now come to face the problem of fear in this question of will? We don't listen or learn because of fear?
You know why do we take so long to learn about something like this which is so clear, which is so simple, which gives you such a tremendous practical way of life and gives you tremendous energy? Why do we refuse all this? It's because I'm used to that kind of thinking.
But I'm saying, sir, that kind of thinking is all right at one level but at the other psychological level it has no value at all. Why don't you learn that? Why do you keep on repeating it?
Why don't you say, 'Yes, let me learn, I don't know this, you say I am going to learn a new language, a new way of looking, let me learn' - you don't do that. Isn't that a fragmentation? Of course sir, that is the what we are saying, it is part of fragmentation.
But I mean separating the material life and the... No. Sir, I am not separating. You see, it is not separation.
The two must go together. I have to choose between two materials, I have to choose between two cars, between two houses, between the kind of pen I will use; and also at the same time can the mind be free of comparison - the two moving together? In other words what you are saying is that at different times... Ah, no, no.
Not one time you compare and another time you do not compare. Oh Lord! Sir, please see it is not a question of time.
When you choose a tie you compare, don't you? And when you see comparison breeds conflict within you and outside of you, what will you do? Keep them in watertight compartments?
Or let both of them live together harmoniously? You have got it? In choosing between two cars I am bound to end up in some sort of fragmentation.
No, not necessarily. He says when I compare two cars I am bound to be psychologically comparing. (Inaudible) No, sir.
First get the idea, get the feeling that you are always comparing. Right? And see the fact that comparison is a distorting factor in life.
Right? See that fact, only that. Then we will discuss when comparison should exist and all the rest.
Come on sir, this is... It is rather like searching for truth in a lot of nonsense really. Your concept is so obvious and so simple.
Your concept is so obvious and so simple - is it a concept? (laughs) I have no concept. For god's sake, let's move away from that!
I have a horror of concepts because it has done so much mischief in the world - the Arab concept - you understand sir? - the whole of the Arabian world is anti everything else, anti Israel and all the Jews and so on. And the Hindus have a concept, which is an idea, a Hindu is a concept, is against Muslim - you know.
So can the mind live without concepts? Therefore free to live. When you have concepts you are not living, you are living in an idea.
Oh come on sir, this so simple. So we mustn't get a concept of what you mean? No sir.
Learning is not a concept. To learn what it is to have... about the ending of thought is not a concept, you are learning. I didn't imply that.
Oh, I beg your pardon. I said that to live without a concept, one has a concept of living without a concept. Then you are playing with words.
Then it becomes a habit. Of course, of course sir. Could you continue with what you mentioned that we are only half listening.
Yes. Sir, look, I want to learn a language. What is necessary to learn a language?
First of all I don't know the meaning of the foreign words, French words, or Latin or Russian words. So I am curious, I must give time to it, I must be patient, I must have the ear to listen to the sound as it is pronounced by the native of that language. I must listen and I must look at the word printed on a page.
Right? I must give attention to it. If I say, 'Well, I'm tired today I won't listen but I must listen' - there is conflict - you understand?
Whereas if you say, I want to listen, I want to find out, I want to learn, that requires attention, that requires passion, that requires energy. If you haven't got it you say, 'Well, I'm not interested; I don't want to learn'. Why do you sit here then?
Such a waste of time! In learning there is no sense of extension... That's right sir. In learning there is no extension of the 'me'.
I learn, how can you bring the 'me' into it? So let's come back. Which we began by asking why the human mind is fragmented.
Is it the culture, the society, the religion, the various beliefs, dogmas, ideals that have brought about this division in ourselves, which is education? Is it that we are always comparing ourselves with somebody? He has got a beautiful face, he has got a lovely sense of beauty, he has got very great intellectual capacity - we are always comparing, comparing.
Therefore we destroy ourselves and put the other on a pedestal, which brings about a fragmentation. Can the mind live without comparison? Just try it sir, learn about it, and not make it a formula.
It's all fragments until you put out the ideals, then you see the violence in yourself. If you see the violence in yourself, you're asking, can... It is frightening to live without ideals.
Now wait a minute. You see violence in yourself and to have no ideal is very frightening. Then, which means, the ideal is an escape from your violence.
Right? Then you are not frightened if you can escape from violence through an ideal, you are not frightened. So ideals act as an escape from 'what is'.
To be vulnerable. That's vulnerable. Now I want to find out - please listen to this - I want to find out whether I can face violence as it is without any ideal.
I want to learn. I see, I have learnt what ideals do, they offer an escape from the fact of violence, so I say, 'I want to resolve completely violence, so I won't escape through ideals'. Now I am faced with violence in myself.
Right? Now is that violence a word? Wait sir, wait, don't say 'No', let's go into it step by step.
Is it a word to which I have become so accustomed that I say, 'I am violent' - I use the word before I have the feeling. You are following? Does the word encourage the feeling of violence?
Look at it, please look at it. Why do I use that word violence? Because I have had that feeling before and have used that word, and that word is convenient to identify the past with the present - you are following all this?
So I am using the word as an identity, as a remembrance of an experience of violence which I have had and so use that word now. So what takes place when I use the word and identify that present experience with the past, what takes place? I strengthen that violence - no?
So can I observe that feeling without the word? And if I don't use that word and identify that feeling with the past, does the feeling exist? I hit somebody then.
Wait. No please, you don't hit somebody. Just listen.
I am violent, angry and I say, 'I am angry'. When I am learning I say, 'Why do I use that word anger?' Why do I use words all the time with regard to certain feelings, why?
Is it because I don't know what to do with the feeling, I don't know how to go beyond it, therefore I resort to the past and so thereby strengthen the feeling? You are following all this? Come on, sir.
So can I, can the mind, when this feeling of violence arises, not use any word at all? If I don't use the word, and if the past doesn't project itself on the present, does that feeling of violence exist at all? I am learning, you understand?
I am not saying that feeling should exist, should not exist. I am learning. The mood exists, because it is this we become aware of, the comes later Yes, that's right, that's right.
So can you observe your violence without the label? What if the mood leads to action before you have awareness? If the mood leads to action before awareness, what am I to do?
If the mood leads to action before awareness takes place what am I to do? Why need you ask me? That is what you generally do.
You write off a letter, or hit somebody, or use a word and so on and so on. I think I saw something when you were talking. I feel violent, then half a second later I say it is violence, I put it off into a category.
That's right. Which creates the opposite category of non-violence. And these two categories in my mind have to necessarily be in conflict, have to be violent.
But the idea of non-violence is contradictory, it creates the idea of violence. Quite right sir. Therefore we are only saying, freedom from violence, not becoming free from violence in order to be non-violent.
Freedom from violence. Sir, what we have said is very simple. What is the difficulty?
Is it that you don't listen? Is it that you are not paying attention to what is being said? Is it that you want to keep your violence, put garlands round it?
(Inaudible) 'One of our difficulties is that attention is devoured by a process. Then awareness becomes a process, mechanical'. Now why does the mind become mechanical?
We have made our life mechanical. Right? Sex, relationship, habit is mechanical, the way of our thinking, which is comparison, ideals, is mechanical.
Why does the mind become so easily mechanical, a process that goes on, why? Having - listen to it, sir - a mechanical habit makes life easier, doesn't it? So the mind is seeking an easy way of living.
Right? I believe in god - finished. You follow?
Believe in god, believe in god, carry on. Or I say, 'I am an Englishman' or a Dutchman or god knows what else, that is a mechanical habit, that is the easiest way of living. Which means what?
The mind is seeking security - no? Conformity. Conformity, of course.
Conformity, security. Because when I conform with the rest of the world I am perfectly safe. So the mind is seeking security through conformity, through habit, through processes, through continual assertion of something totally unreal, because essentially it wants to be secure.
Right? Isn't this related to what went just before? Right, sir, it is.
The force of the social system has a most powerful influence on the individual and generally we feel that it is much easier to float with the river than battle against the tide. Right sir. Now, please listen.
We are asking, why don't we learn? Is it the new learning may be very disturbing, it may change the whole pattern of our existence? Therefore we are frightened, therefore we say, 'Please make that new way of living a habit', 'Tell me how to live in habit in the new way'.
And you tell me, 'Sir, sorry, you can't make the habit of a new way, you have to learn it, you have to keep moving'. And that is what is taking place. You won't listen because of habit.
And we say that way of living is the most disastrous way of living. Look where you are, what it has wars, misery, confusion - you know what is happening in the world. And you say, 'It is all right it is only happening in Munich, not here' - you follow?
My house isn't burning, somebody else's house is burning. So you say, 'Please leave me in my habits'. Or 'Please introduce me to a new habit, but make it a habit, so that it will be completely secure'.
So you are seeking security, and quite rightly too because the brain cannot function without complete security. Right? I don't understand.
I have just said sir, if you had no house, no home, no shelter and no food, the brain deteriorates. So it must have shelter, food, clothing, of any kind, even a little room - you follow? - it must have, so that it feels secure, like a child.

If I don't compare with you, am I dull? I don't know. Come on sirs.

Are you saying that if we go into comparison carefully without comparison, we shall get rid of one of the fragments of our fragmentation? That's right sir. Wait, wait careful now.

Are you going to get rid of fragments one by one? That will take a long time, won't it? I don't know.

Right, right. You don't know. I have got many I am jealous, envious, ambitious, greedy, violent, occasionally happy, suffering, believe in god, or not believe in god - these are my various fragments.

Am I going to put them away one by one? That would take too long. Therefore there must be a different way of looking at all this.

It seems that when we look we see the habit of comparison. I say that I see that I am comparing myself with another, perhaps that comparison will come to an end and I don't know what I am and I look. But it seems that there is some difficulty, in the act of looking there is a distortion.

That's right. At that moment it seems as if one fragment of the mind is looking at the rest of the mind... That's right? ...so the fragment that looks is a loaded fragment, it is senseless, it cannot see that that fragment is more important than the other fragment.

Why does the mind give to one fragment greater importance than to the other fragments? You have understood? You have understood my question sir?

Oh my Lord! Are we travelling together, or we are going somewhere else? The mind has given to one fragment greater importance, it is the judge - why?

Why has that fragment assumed greater importance over other fragments, though it is also a fragment - you understand? - why? You are all so puzzled, aren't you?

It gives oneself a sense of permanence. Which is what? Go ahead sir.

Well, I am here now so I must be here tomorrow. Which is, what he is saying, it gives a permanency. Yes.

Wait, wait. One fragment has assumed greater permanency than the other fragments. That fragment has a greater sense of security, greater sense of certainty, greater sense of clarity - why?

(Inaudible) Do look at it before you answer it sir. Take the question in first. It has a greater emotional power behind it.

A greater emotional power at that moment to hold that thing as permanent. We always want to feel that the entity that looks is something, and we are not prepared to face the possibility that it is nothing. You are going to find out sir, you're going to find out in a minute.

It begins to measure again. Yes sir. So look at it.

Without the observer sir. That's right sir. No, it is a marvellous thing, sir, if you go step by step into it, you will see it yourself.

That brings total freedom from fragmentation, you will see it in a minute. Why does one fragment assume the power or prestige over the other fragments? Is it part of our education?

Because intellectually we are terribly cultivated. To us the intellect is extraordinarily important and we say, 'Oh, well he is not so bright, you know, he is rather dull'. But the man who is very bright we say, 'What an extraordinary brain he has got!'

Have you noticed this? The intellectual capacity has been cultivated. To us the intellect has become a tremendous thing.

And the intellect is different from emotion, the intellect has power to argue, to discuss, to create, to build, and the emotion becomes rather sentimental, vague, unreal, therefore words become extraordinarily important, which is part of the intellectual playthings. So is it - go step by step - is it that we are educated to give to one fragment, the soul - you understand? - the soul or the body greater importance?

We are educated in this. To us the artist has greater value than the business man, the musician is much more important than the cook. You follow?

Is it that our whole education emphasises one fragment? I think sir that you talk about education as if it were something out there, that was imposed upon us. Whereas I really feel that we are willing to be educated in this particular way.

There is a kind of social contract among all the selves that this part of us will be pre-eminent. Yes sir. So you are saying our education is not over there, here, it is here.

And part of our education is to find out now how to learn to look at things differently. But we can't, because we are not educated, we are indoctrinated. That's right sir, that's perfectly right.

We are indoctrinated by the church, by the society, by the culture we live in. And one of the indoctrinations is, that there is an entity which is far superior than the other fragments, which is will. Right?

A man of character, a man of will, he will stand up against anything - you follow? - the hero. So can the mind be without the perceiver, who is the superior entity - right, you understand this?

- who is the past, can the mind observe 'what is' without the superior entity? The superior entity is the image which society has built - the Establishment. Right?

(laughs) So can the mind observe without the observer, the perceiver, which is the past? And when it is observing with the eyes of the past then it is wasting energy, therefore it cannot face 'what is'. You've got it?

So where there is no comparison, no ideal, no superior entity which guides, which dominates, which has will to say, 'I will' and 'I will not', which are all factors of division and therefore conflict. When you see this as you feel pain, when you feel this intensely everything drops. Now does this take place as we are sitting here and listening?

Or you are not completely paying attention, you are only half listening and therefore half learning and therefore not learning at all. (laughs) Come on, sirs. There is nothing left to do.

There is nothing left to do? 'I will' and 'I will not' - if you abandon that there is nothing left to do. No madam, I don't abandon it.

I see the truth of all this and therefore when I see something as true, then the false goes. It can be so much more subtle though than the sort of description of will which says 'I see' or 'I don't see'. Of course, much more subtle.

What I want to ask you is it true to say that as long as there is any conception of looking, or watching, one is still caught in this fragmentation. Of course. As long as there any conceptual observation... ...that I am looking.

Yes. Any conceptual, verbal, intellectual perception - there is fragmentation, obviously. Even the shadow.

Hm! Don't we now come to face the problem of fear in this question of will? We don't listen or learn because of fear?

You know why do we take so long to learn about something like this which is so clear, which is so simple, which gives you such a tremendous practical way of life and gives you tremendous energy? Why do we refuse all this? It's because I'm used to that kind of thinking.

But I'm saying, sir, that kind of thinking is all right at one level but at the other psychological level it has no value at all. Why don't you learn that? Why do you keep on repeating it?

Why don't you say, 'Yes, let me learn, I don't know this, you say I am going to learn a new language, a new way of looking, let me learn' - you don't do that. Isn't that a fragmentation? Of course sir, that is the what we are saying, it is part of fragmentation.

But I mean separating the material life and the... No. Sir, I am not separating. You see, it is not separation.

The two must go together. I have to choose between two materials, I have to choose between two cars, between two houses, between the kind of pen I will use; and also at the same time can the mind be free of comparison - the two moving together? In other words what you are saying is that at different times... Ah, no, no.

Not one time you compare and another time you do not compare. Oh Lord! Sir, please see it is not a question of time.

When you choose a tie you compare, don't you? And when you see comparison breeds conflict within you and outside of you, what will you do? Keep them in watertight compartments?

Or let both of them live together harmoniously? You have got it? In choosing between two cars I am bound to end up in some sort of fragmentation.

No, not necessarily. He says when I compare two cars I am bound to be psychologically comparing. (Inaudible) No, sir.

First get the idea, get the feeling that you are always comparing. Right? And see the fact that comparison is a distorting factor in life.

Right? See that fact, only that. Then we will discuss when comparison should exist and all the rest.

Come on sir, this is... It is rather like searching for truth in a lot of nonsense really. Your concept is so obvious and so simple.

Your concept is so obvious and so simple - is it a concept? (laughs) I have no concept. For god's sake, let's move away from that!

I have a horror of concepts because it has done so much mischief in the world - the Arab concept - you understand sir? - the whole of the Arabian world is anti everything else, anti Israel and all the Jews and so on. And the Hindus have a concept, which is an idea, a Hindu is a concept, is against Muslim - you know.

So can the mind live without concepts? Therefore free to live. When you have concepts you are not living, you are living in an idea.

Oh come on sir, this so simple. So we mustn't get a concept of what you mean? No sir.

Learning is not a concept. To learn what it is to have... about the ending of thought is not a concept, you are learning. I didn't imply that.

Oh, I beg your pardon. I said that to live without a concept, one has a concept of living without a concept. Then you are playing with words.

Then it becomes a habit. Of course, of course sir. Could you continue with what you mentioned that we are only half listening.

Yes. Sir, look, I want to learn a language. What is necessary to learn a language?

First of all I don't know the meaning of the foreign words, French words, or Latin or Russian words. So I am curious, I must give time to it, I must be patient, I must have the ear to listen to the sound as it is pronounced by the native of that language. I must listen and I must look at the word printed on a page.

Right? I must give attention to it. If I say, 'Well, I'm tired today I won't listen but I must listen' - there is conflict - you understand?

Whereas if you say, I want to listen, I want to find out, I want to learn, that requires attention, that requires passion, that requires energy. If you haven't got it you say, 'Well, I'm not interested; I don't want to learn'. Why do you sit here then?

Such a waste of time! In learning there is no sense of extension... That's right sir. In learning there is no extension of the 'me'.

I learn, how can you bring the 'me' into it? So let's come back. Which we began by asking why the human mind is fragmented.

Is it the culture, the society, the religion, the various beliefs, dogmas, ideals that have brought about this division in ourselves, which is education? Is it that we are always comparing ourselves with somebody? He has got a beautiful face, he has got a lovely sense of beauty, he has got very great intellectual capacity - we are always comparing, comparing.

Therefore we destroy ourselves and put the other on a pedestal, which brings about a fragmentation. Can the mind live without comparison? Just try it sir, learn about it, and not make it a formula.

It's all fragments until you put out the ideals, then you see the violence in yourself. If you see the violence in yourself, you're asking, can... It is frightening to live without ideals.

Now wait a minute. You see violence in yourself and to have no ideal is very frightening. Then, which means, the ideal is an escape from your violence.

Right? Then you are not frightened if you can escape from violence through an ideal, you are not frightened. So ideals act as an escape from 'what is'.

To be vulnerable. That's vulnerable. Now I want to find out - please listen to this - I want to find out whether I can face violence as it is without any ideal.

I want to learn. I see, I have learnt what ideals do, they offer an escape from the fact of violence, so I say, 'I want to resolve completely violence, so I won't escape through ideals'. Now I am faced with violence in myself.

Right? Now is that violence a word? Wait sir, wait, don't say 'No', let's go into it step by step.

Is it a word to which I have become so accustomed that I say, 'I am violent' - I use the word before I have the feeling. You are following? Does the word encourage the feeling of violence?

Look at it, please look at it. Why do I use that word violence? Because I have had that feeling before and have used that word, and that word is convenient to identify the past with the present - you are following all this?

So I am using the word as an identity, as a remembrance of an experience of violence which I have had and so use that word now. So what takes place when I use the word and identify that present experience with the past, what takes place? I strengthen that violence - no?

So can I observe that feeling without the word? And if I don't use that word and identify that feeling with the past, does the feeling exist? I hit somebody then.

Wait. No please, you don't hit somebody. Just listen.

I am violent, angry and I say, 'I am angry'. When I am learning I say, 'Why do I use that word anger?' Why do I use words all the time with regard to certain feelings, why?

Is it because I don't know what to do with the feeling, I don't know how to go beyond it, therefore I resort to the past and so thereby strengthen the feeling? You are following all this? Come on, sir.

So can I, can the mind, when this feeling of violence arises, not use any word at all? If I don't use the word, and if the past doesn't project itself on the present, does that feeling of violence exist at all? I am learning, you understand?

I am not saying that feeling should exist, should not exist. I am learning. The mood exists, because it is this we become aware of, the comes later Yes, that's right, that's right.

So can you observe your violence without the label? What if the mood leads to action before you have awareness? If the mood leads to action before awareness, what am I to do?

If the mood leads to action before awareness takes place what am I to do? Why need you ask me? That is what you generally do.

You write off a letter, or hit somebody, or use a word and so on and so on. I think I saw something when you were talking. I feel violent, then half a second later I say it is violence, I put it off into a category.

That's right. Which creates the opposite category of non-violence. And these two categories in my mind have to necessarily be in conflict, have to be violent.

But the idea of non-violence is contradictory, it creates the idea of violence. Quite right sir. Therefore we are only saying, freedom from violence, not becoming free from violence in order to be non-violent.

Freedom from violence. Sir, what we have said is very simple. What is the difficulty?

Is it that you don't listen? Is it that you are not paying attention to what is being said? Is it that you want to keep your violence, put garlands round it?

(Inaudible) 'One of our difficulties is that attention is devoured by a process. Then awareness becomes a process, mechanical'. Now why does the mind become mechanical?

We have made our life mechanical. Right? Sex, relationship, habit is mechanical, the way of our thinking, which is comparison, ideals, is mechanical.

Why does the mind become so easily mechanical, a process that goes on, why? Having - listen to it, sir - a mechanical habit makes life easier, doesn't it? So the mind is seeking an easy way of living.

Right? I believe in god - finished. You follow?

Believe in god, believe in god, carry on. Or I say, 'I am an Englishman' or a Dutchman or god knows what else, that is a mechanical habit, that is the easiest way of living. Which means what?

The mind is seeking security - no? Conformity. Conformity, of course.

Conformity, security. Because when I conform with the rest of the world I am perfectly safe. So the mind is seeking security through conformity, through habit, through processes, through continual assertion of something totally unreal, because essentially it wants to be secure.

Right? Isn't this related to what went just before? Right, sir, it is.

The force of the social system has a most powerful influence on the individual and generally we feel that it is much easier to float with the river than battle against the tide. Right sir. Now, please listen.

We are asking, why don't we learn? Is it the new learning may be very disturbing, it may change the whole pattern of our existence? Therefore we are frightened, therefore we say, 'Please make that new way of living a habit', 'Tell me how to live in habit in the new way'.

And you tell me, 'Sir, sorry, you can't make the habit of a new way, you have to learn it, you have to keep moving'. And that is what is taking place. You won't listen because of habit.

And we say that way of living is the most disastrous way of living. Look where you are, what it has wars, misery, confusion - you know what is happening in the world. And you say, 'It is all right it is only happening in Munich, not here' - you follow?

My house isn't burning, somebody else's house is burning. So you say, 'Please leave me in my habits'. Or 'Please introduce me to a new habit, but make it a habit, so that it will be completely secure'.

So you are seeking security, and quite rightly too because the brain cannot function without complete security. Right? I don't understand.

I have just said sir, if you had no house, no home, no shelter and no food, the brain deteriorates. So it must have shelter, food, clothing, of any kind, even a little room - you follow? - it must have, so that it feels secure, like a child.