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Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC, where we learn the journeys and hear the journeys of AAPC members. Today we have Jessica Miller with us. Jessica, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you? I am great. Thank you so much for being with us. Jessica, why don't you, well, you know the routine. You know what we're doing here. And why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself where you're from, where you work now? And what was your path into medical coding? Okay, so I'm currently in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Been here just about 11 years now, recently got married to a long-term Chattanoogun, who is on the education side, and I'm on the health care side. So right now I'm currently working for CIOX health care. I am the Profit Division Manager. So I have all of the pro fee clients underneath me and all of those employees. So our division were kind of separated off from the facility side. So our VP works really well with us developing coders. We provide education. I do the pro fee segments for the pro fee side as well on the roundtables that they hold each month. So you've been doing this a long time. I have been. I've been in health care 19 and a half years already. Wow. And before we went live, you mentioned, well, you were giving me a little taste of your story and it didn't involve with coding right out of the gate. It did not. So I actually started in what we call now is the patient service reps. Back in the day, we won't date how old we are, pulling paper charts for doctors as part of a school project. Also answered his phone

took phone messages, started to learn a little bit about the difference between the billing that we were doing out of the office and someone else was coding it at that time, answered any questions that I could answer and escalate them as needed. Then from there, I actually started working at Medicare in Des Moines, Iowa. And I was one of the people that was on the beneficiary side, but I also helped in the anti-fraud unit for provider enrollment fraud. And that really got me into where I am now. That opened up a huge platform for me. The education education side of it for both beneficiaries and for providers. And then more moved into the facility side, not where my heart is will say. I more like the physician side, the one-on-one, the residents, especially that teaching aspect of it. I do a lot of education when I can. A lot of physicians out there don't quite understand everything a coder does. They just think sometimes we're just being mean. And that's not the case. So being able to teach at grand rounds at previous hospitals I've been at and doing that physician one-on-one education has also been a passion of where I'm at now. Have you ever worked as a pure coder? I have. I did that for about five years and then slowly got more into the IT side of health care and the revenue cycle piece and moved up from there. Okay

so you are doing this patient service rep position. That's kind of your entry into this world. Right. At what point did you discover coding and how did it that evolve from there? So probably after I graduated with my two year degree, I got a two year degree from Ultimate Medical Academy out of Florida. I did just strict home health care billing. Then I moved into more of the physician side of coding and hospital. I dabbled a little bit in hospital for a couple of years. Like I said earlier, not where my passion was. It was more of that physician side, having that be where it's not as just diagnosis related and picks and PCS and all that stuff. So I did that for about five years before I started moving up. Okay. And when did you discover APC and our certifications? So that would have been after I've been coding for about seven and a half years. I did the bad thing. I let my certifications lapse. Don't ever do that, guys. It's the first thing ever. You have to sit through all those tests again. Oh no. But it was unavoidable at that time. And so I vowed then I don't care if I ever get out of health care. I'm still going to pay for my certifications because I'm not sitting through test I've already taken. Now I do want to get five more certifications. Wow. So I'm at two and a half now I'm working on hopefully going to get the last ones over the next two years. Okay, so one of those are CPC is a CPC. Correct. And tell me about the others that you currently hold. The other one is my C. G. I see. Okay. Okay. Awesome. I want to touc. But first

I just want to feel back the layers of your early career life. So what's interesting to me is that you didn't start in coding, but that was your entry into it and you coded for many years before being certified. Usually we see someone who has a certification and then they get a job like a patient service rep or anything to get into the office. Right. But what was it like having all of that experience that you have and then studying for preparing for the exam and taking the exam? I'd imagine that helped you quite a bit. So it did in a way, but it also hurts you in a way. So the tests are more, and this is one thing I tell a lot of my new people that are just getting out of school. It is strictly by the book coding. When you've already have all that information in your head, your payer guidelines and everything and you know United Health Care or stigma is not going to pay something. That doesn't help you on the test. So in a way, it kind of hurts you a little bit. I also think though that our industry has changed so much. You can't really go into the health care field like I did 20 years ago than what you can now because everyone wants people to be able to hit the ground and running. And that's a disservice in some parts because you can't get experience if nobody's willing to give it to you. So I think the education, especially with AAPC, has that's a huge asset to anyone, whether you're seasoned or not. I mean

there's classes I take just because I need to brush up on it. Yeah. And so remembering the basics is what's really important when it comes to get in certifications. Wow, okay, that's great advice. And what would you, what would you recommend to someone who is recently certified looking for their first position, you know, that our audience, a lot of those who are watching this will are those new coders. So my suggestion would be definitely go to your meetings. Your smaller clinics and hospitals, they're willing to take CPCAs, those that have those programs, definitely get your foot in the door in any way that you can. Most of my coders who are even friends of mine that started off, we started off in medical records. Just getting your foot in the door to get that experience and then, you know, work from the bottom up, but you can't expect to jump in and be a coder at $30, $40 an hour. Yeah, yeah. And not everybody can work from home. Yeah, yes. So you mentioned meetings. So you meet meet you're speaking to local chapter meetings. Yes. So if you're watching make that a priority get to your local chapter meetings and network because I would imagine relationships are a huge part of finding your first job. Yes, I would agree with that networking. Um, if you can afford to go to the regional conferences and health care and health cons. Definitely I've noticed since I've started going to health con, my LinkedIn alone has blown up. So getting out there and even if it's a group on Facebook, I know APC's got several, join in there

introduce yourselves. I like I'm seeing that more over the last month. I do see a lot more people in the AAPC group saying, hey, I'm new, what advice do you have? And watching all of us jump in there and giving the background and the advice that we've had, especially when they get discouraged if they don't pass that first time, it's huge to not give up. Yes, yes. And you also mentioned finding any crack in the door to get into the office, into the business side of health care. Would you say it's limiting to just look for jobs with coding in the title? Yes, I would suggest looking at billing as well. A lot of the payers are looking for brand new coders and billers. One way that made me a little bit different now and it's rounded out my experience is I've worked on the back end all the way through the front end and vice versa. So having the background of that billing background, that helps you even more bulletin that on your resumes is huge. At least from my side, when I see resumes come through, are people saying, hey, can you review your resume? They're only putting coding stuff, but then when you get into an interview, they can't answer the basic coding questions. So that tells me they're fresh out of school and they're trying to land a job that they just don't have, they're not ready for yet. Yeah, yeah. And I don't say this as a sales pitch, but we do have the practical program, which we, we, well

we, well, it gives new students a taste of what it's like to code real codes or real records and things like that. So there are opportunities out there to prepare yourself for that moment when your resume hits Jessica's desk. Right. Yeah, Practicode, I can say from personal experience is a huge help. I took that when I went back to go retest. It helps. Even season people, there's stuff that you're going to forget if you've been doing it for so long. I've got a coder for me that's over 60 years, several that are over 60 years old. They will be the first ones to tell you they're not going to remember everything day in day out. They go to practicum. They go and they purchase the study guides. When they go to get their next certifications, I do the same thing. I just bought five at the last health con, I bought five study guides. Purchasing two of more courses and it's just stuff, you want to continually learn, don't pigeonhole yourself into one thing. Okay, and that's one one common beam I've seen from coders I've interviewed for my I am agency is that being a coder and working on the revenue cycle side, it requires constant education. Yes. In signing another helpful tip and any even just for a regular coder, not even the revenue cycle side, sign up for those bulletins and provider manual updates that you get from the payers. That's going to keep you on top of stuff. Ameri Group's got a great one, Blue Cross Blue Shield, sign up for those monthly bulletins that come out because that's going to help you know what change is coming up

get that information out to your practices, your providers, and you'll know those things are coming up and it's going to help you be more a more well rounded coder as well. Yes, yes. Well, one thing I found interesting in your story so far, Jessica, is your experience with CMS. And I know veteran coders will know exactly who CMS is, but there might be some some new students not understanding the importance of CMS, would you kind of give us a little overview of CMS, what their role is. And I'm curious, how has working at CMS helped you as a professional, as a health care professional now? So CMS is the center for Medicare and Medicaid services. It is the largest of all the federal government payers. They make our lives easier or harder. Just depends on their mood, I think. I love Medicare, I do. But when telehealth was huge during COVID, I mean, every day they make the changes, a lot of your federal payers are going to follow their guidelines. Sometimes they're different from commercials, sometimes they're not. The two years I worked for them, part of me wishes I would have stayed with them because I was so, I loved the anti-fraud unit with them. But on the same side of it, it gave me just enough to confirm that's where I wanted to be was the education side, the pro-feed side of that, you know, being more involved with those physicians rather than the hospital side. They're a great group to work with. If you get an opportunity to work with a rack or a Medicare fiscal

my suggestion is take it. It's a great position to have. You learn so much there, it's unreal. It can really help you catapult yourself into being an industry leader. All right, that's good to know. And is it difficult to get hired on at CMS? I'd imagine there is a big organization. It's a huge organization. Back when I was doing it about 10 years ago, I mean I had to go through a federal background check, a state background check. One of the temp agencies where I was going to college was looking for people that wanted to get into it. So I had to go through a very rigorous set of interviews. I'm not sure what their process is now, but I'm sure they're still running all the background checks and all that stuff. Yes, and for those who don't know, CMS is behind the ICD 10 CMS and PCS code sets. Not only do they manage that, they give us the updates. They manage all of that. And they work closely with the AMA as well with CPT editorial panels. I know a couple of mentors I have are on that panel. So they do have a lot more say than your CDC or even your Cignas or your Blue Cross Blue Shields, but they really are the gold set standard. Okay, all right. Well, you mentioned that you have your eye on some future credentials. What what are you looking at? What, what, well, I'm what path do you see your career going? Um

so I'm looking more for my educational ones. I do want to get my CPCI. That's my main focus over the next year. So I'm going to do both the E&M external audit or the E&M auditor one. The CPMA is my next one as well. And then also I'm looking for my specialty in pediatrics. I have my gastro, but now I'm getting more into being an industry person for pediatrics. I've done some articles with what used to be super coder. I have a contact there and so I've been helping him write a lot of articles on the pediatric side. So I want to start working on getting that as well. Yes, all right. Well, you brought up super coder. So we, um, super coder and, um, oh, darn, I can't even remember what our AAPC product was. Codeify. Yeah, it's now codify, but prior to that, codify is a pretty new name. Yeah, what was it? Oh, darn, well, it's slipping me. But basically, super coder and the APC product merged and and became codify and is that a product that you use? Yes so I do purchase that. Anyone that works for me we do purchase that for our pro-fee coders and it's it's a huge help. There's a few of us that can are able to pull newsletters that down, so we share those with our teammates when we need to. It's so much easier, I think

I think, than other encoders that are out there. I actually just filled out the survey that just came for the feedback one. I did the webinar for that. I would recommend it over some other ones. There's one negative to it versus another one that's out there is we can't run commercial edits against it like another larger one. But that would be the only drawback that I've seen so far, but at least helps you with your federal payers. Okay. And so as a coding professional, you know, there are all these tools. But I primarily when you come into the industry, you just see these code books, which are huge and weigh a ton and the thought of lugging those around is daunting. Does does your encoder to tool codify, does that replace books? It depends on the coder. I'm personally one that I have to have books and my encoder. Codify has the electronic version on stuff. But if you walked into my office right now, you would see seven books already opened and spread out across my desk. So I've got that in addition to my encoder on my other screen just because sometimes it's easier just to flip open a book. Okay. All right. So what's the mentality? Jessica, is it efficiency? I guess for your staff, is it just trying to code as many records as possible? How do you guys operate at your facility? So it depends. I'm in regards to codified, it's definitely so it goes out clean. You don't want to have to go back and pay someone to a word production coding. So the least

the biggest thing is I don't want to go back and pay you to code something you coded on Monday because you messed it up. So definitely watching that, checking the modifier usage. I know a lot of my coders use it for their MUEs. They cannot keep track of MUEs on a daily basis, which one, how many has what, or their CCI edits. So it's a good catch for them to use that so they're more proficient in their coding. All right. Well, Jessica, if someone came to you, and I'm sure this happens even now and says, hey, coding is interesting to me. I'm thinking about getting into it. What would you tell them? I would definitely tell them do it. Start at the bottom if you have to. Don't get discouraged. We see that a lot on the website. You know, I applied for 17 jobs. I didn't get any of them. Go back and if you have an opportunity, ask those people what could I do differently or what experience am I missing? Just recently in the last two weeks, I've had a lot of people reach out and just say, here's what I have for a background. My resume doesn't seem to be getting picked up by anybody. What am I doing wrong? And it was just as simple how they were wording stuff on their resume. Don't give up. You're going to have good days and bad days. Management, I'm a little bit different than some managers. I get in there right with my coders and help when they're needed to. If they've got questions I'm available 24-7 whether it's I've coding question or hey, you know, I'm kind of thinking about going this route with my career

what do you suggest? Networking is huge. They can help you, like you said earlier, Alex was a perfect point. They may not be able to help you today, but in a year they could. And that's very helpful to know and keep in touc with those people. So it's genuine. You're not coming back to him a year later and say, Oh, do you have a job for me? Well, you mentioned mentors and you not only for staff, because I feel like when you tell me your role, you are really looking at your role as a mentor role and helping and being in the weeds with your staff. But you also mentioned that you, as experienced as you are, still have your own mentors that you look up to. And I have to. I know I'm not perfect by any means. I have personal goals. I would love to be the vice president of pro fee coding one day, whether it's with Syox or another one, but I know to get there, there's things I need to improve on as well. I'm fortunate enough that my VP I report to is wonderful. We use, I meet with them one-on-one once a week. We go through stuff. Here's what I can improve on or, hey, what a year thoughts on this. And it's a good feedback to learn. Sometimes it's critical and sometimes it's harsh and you can't get down on yourself. Sometimes easier said than done, but even as someone with my background, you're still going to need to improve. No one knows every last thing as much as we want. I will be the first to admit, I am not a fan of cardio. I still to this day have to reach out to my coders with one or two years experience and say, teach me because I don't

I just have never put enough time into learning that. You know, an orthotrauma case or a complex GI case such as a poem, I've got you. So you're always going to grow in your position and never just say, I'm just want, if you have aspirations to be more than just a coder, go for it. Shoot for the stars, mentor, grow, continue to learn. It's okay if you just want to be a coder, or a biller or a follow-up denials person, but if you want to be more, you've got to continually learn it and take advantage of those opportunities to learn. Yes, I love that you're humble enough to know and secure enough in in who you are and your expertise and experience to be okay with having a new coder who may have been coding cardiovascular more but they can show you things that you don't know. Right. I actually went to one of my coders today and I said, I don't get this, I need to bounce this off of you. So, and a lot of my coders still do. I've got one of them that's over 60. She'll say, you know, I'm just not sure about the CPT code and she'll send it to my work key to take a look at. And that's what you have to do. You both learn from seeing each other and having that role of what I'm in now for management is, you know, here's how I'm looking at it, how you're looking at it, let's meet in the middle and see where we can kind of compromise and sometimes they just, coders just feel like they just need to bounce it off somebody. Yes, yes. Well, just speaking to mentors and those watching may be thinking, what do I even start finding a mentor

especially if you're not working in the field, but we mentioned local chapter meetings and you will find a wide spectrum of expertise at your local chapter meetings. The Facebook group, which you mentioned, Jessica, that has, again, I think there are 40,000 members in their students to yourself. But we also have a mentorship program, if you Google AAPC mentorship program, you'll find find that and that's a free service to members and through the program we connect you with someone who can this be an ear and a support to help you through your career. It's a great program to to t developed that, great idea because not everybody uses Facebook anymore and some people are more into Tick-Tock and all that stuff, but it is, there really is a lot of outlets and that's one thing I love about our organization is use it. You know, we pay dues every month for a reason or every year for a reason. Go out there. That's supporting us and take full advantage of everything we have to offer. Yes. Yes. Well, Jessica, we have some students who take the exam the first time, pass it, they're done. And then we have students who take it one or may not pass it on that first, try and get frustrated and maybe even two or three times you get frustrated. Do you have any advice for those who feel like they want the career to work out so bad, but maybe they feel like they're struggling to pass that exam. So my way that I did it may not be traditional, but it worked for me. I did my study guide, I did my chapter

read my guidelines and everything. I walked in there the very first time I took it and went in what I called blind. I didn't focus on more than one area than another. I went just by what I'd worked with with my study guide and taking all the practice tests. Then once I got my exam results back, I'm humble enough to say I flunked it the first time. I got a 69 and just so you guys know that's my one point. Yeah, so close. That's when you go, oh. But then I used those results to see where I needed to focus. So I wasn't over studying in the areas I knew well. I had to go and focus on the areas I wasn't doing as good on. And then I actually joined one of the AAPC groups and found somebody to kind of answer my questions where my stumbling blocks were. Okay. There's a whole bunch, if you just Google, there's videos, E&M University was a huge help to me. And that's where I was sticking was on the MDM pieces of that. And then I went in the second time and passed. Okay. Yeah, don't don't think that just sitting at home, reading and re-reading the books and suffering yourself is going to get it. I mean, there are so many resources online, so many great individuals answering questions and tutorials and everything to help you out. Well, and definitely don't second guess yourself. If you go with the first answer, 90% of the time it's that first answer, you go back and change it. My mom and I used my testing opportunities as many road trips for us. When I got my gas store, when I passed the first time and I went, well, there went Rex's rest trip. So, I mean

I mean, it is you can make them a fun event. And I don't test well. I don't. I know I never have. I know my stuff, but I, like I do a lot of what first time coders do. We overguessed and we second guess and change it 15 times and think, well, I didn't take the whole time, so I did bad. Just believe in your own self before you go in and never second and taking advantage of all the opportunities we have is a huge help as well. Awesome. Well, great advice. Thanks so much for sharing that and hopefully hope that encourages someone out there who's watching this today. Any final words as we wrap it up, Jessica? So final words I have if you're new to this, it's a great program to be part of. Definitely learning as you go. You're never going to be bored. It's not the same thing day in day out. So variety is the spice here and if anyone needs help with anything, they're more than welcome to reach out to me. Right. All right, you can find Jessica in the Facebook group. She's there. I'm sure you could hunt her down online. But thank you so much for sharing your story with APC members, Jessica. Just a reminder to all those watching, if you are watching, you are likely on YouTube or one of our social media channels. Subscribe to our podcast so you can listen to these interviews. Just search for the AAPC podcast on Stitcher

on the Apple podcast store or the Google podcast store. And you can find us there or if you're listening to us check us out. You can see Jessica tell her story and see her face and and hear it right from her map. All right well Jessica thank you so much and APC members we will see you next time. Thank you. Thank you, Alex and George, and me to tell you.

Welcome to another addition of I am AAPC, where we learn about the journeys and career paths of AAPC members. Today, we have Katie Justice, and I found Katie Justice in the AAPC Facebook group where she had commented several times about her career as an animal caretaker, and that fascinated me. So I need to talk to Katie and learn about her story. Katie, how are you? I'm good about you. I am great, thank you. So Katie, tell me about this journey that you've been on. It sounds quite interesting and very, I mean, from the animal role to, I guess, humans or animals, but medical coding role. Yes, I started off, I was had a love for animals. I went to college for animal behavior and training for your bachelor degree. I wanted to work with SeaWorld at first, but just any other animal I would gladly work with too. So went to college, then got a job in a small little mountain pop stew. And then I slowly started just working in bigger zoos, some more aquariums. I've worked with every animal you could possibly think of except for marine mammals and elephants. So, monkey, graft, camels, everything like that. Is there a specialty of animal that you're more of an expert on than others? My most recent, I would say my most recent job was at the Houston Aquarium

and I was working with tigers and birds and all that I ended up being the assistant curator there so so I worked there for several years and and so tigers I definitely know very well. Wow so Katie how long had you worked in in the zookeeping world? Ten years. Okay. And you're true. So you feel like you fulfilled this dream that you had? Yes, I was, I was in a spot where I was kind of looking to, I felt like I hit the highest point I could go for many many more years because I did become an assistant curator at such a young age, I started that job. So I was just looking for something more that had some more opportunity for growth and a little bit more money making, working with animals, it is more for the love than it is for the money. And I thought that's a bad thing, of course, but just the stress of it and working 50, 60 hours a week. I was just looking for something to branch out and try something new. My husband actually suggested medical coding. One of his coworkers, his mom did medical coding and suggested it. So I thought I'd look into it, found a good program in Houston area to teach it. Luckily, I passed my CPC on the first try and just started applying for jobs everywhere. How long ago was it that you were searching for a new career path and your husband suggested coding? That was 2015 is when I started looking, is when I left the, actually but seven years ago in August, I was the last time I worked with animals. So, I ended up getting my foot in the door at a medical

at an urgent care to be a medical assistant. So I had that kind of to help me gain some experience in the medical field and while I was getting my coding certificate. Okay, that is fascinating to me because you know, you see in the group how people are like, how do I get that first job. We're going to come back to that though. So let's let's talk a little bit about your experience with the exam. So you took this program locally that helped you prepare for the CPC exam. What what that like studying for? I guess, was it what you thought it would be? Was it as difficult or easier than you thought it'd be? Tell us about your whole thoughts on that path. I wasn't really sure 100% what to expect. It turns out I found it was a really great program. They focused really pretty much straight up on coding. They didn't focus on billing at all. It was just coding. They taught us from the basics from anatomy to we, the ICD 10, CBT and HickPICs, they went through everything in very much detail. They made sure we understood everything. It was, I was really lucky to have that kind of program in my area because it doesn't seem like there's those type of programs everywhere. So just learning about, I grasped onto it pretty well, pretty easily. And I'm sure that that really helped too. Yes, yes. And as you finished up the program and you started focusing on the exam itself, what kind of things did you do to prepare yourself for the exam? I knew at the, I knew a lot of people's, a lot of people had issues with time. So, so my goal was to buy the practice

practice exams and take them as if it was actual exam time-wise. So on a day off, I just sat there in a quiet room and I just took the test for the five hours and 40 minutes, I believe it was. And I did that about maybe three times. And so I knew I was able to finish the test within the time limit. It was just focusing on those little keywords to make sure I passed, which luckily worked out. Well, tell me about that, because you say keywords and it's they aren't trick questions. There are no trick questions on the exam. What do you mean by keywords? What do you look in for? Like in some of the questions, all you have to do is just there's just that one little word and it kind of matches the the code, a word in the code. And it's very easy to overthink and be like, well, that doesn't exactly like the shoulder, one of the things I remember was the shoulder dislocation and the manipulation code to put it back. And the code didn't fully match what they described, but it was just the one little keyword that made it, that was what they're looking for basically. Okay, so you really have to look at the words and pay attention and process that, like, and you can identify what they're, what we're looking for. Yes, and not overthink it and usually if you pick an answer, just stick with that answer unless you're absolutely 100% positive it's wrong. Because I've learned that in a different exam that that if you change out, if you change out one answer that could change your whole entire outcome. Yeah, awesome, great advice. So Katie

you passed the exam on your first try? Yes. All right. And what a relief, I'm sure. Yes, big relief. Well, how about exam day? What was that like? Was it, did you have your ducks in a row and like really thinking about what you're going to bring into the exam and that how you can have the best environment in your live exam? I brought the bare necessities that was required. I didn't, I wasn't much of a snackers. I didn't bring any snacks. I brought like a little drink, but I knew I wasn't, I wasn't going to drink anything just because I don't want to have to go to the bathroom or if I didn't need to. I want to make sure I had enough time to accomplish everything. And once the exam started, I was, I was pretty, pretty calm. I kind of had a goal in mind of that when they announced the time, like when they announced half being halfway done, I wanted to be a little bit more than halfway done with my test. So, so when they announced like, I think each test, they announced different times, depending on like what the, what everyone wants. But I think she announced quarter and then half and then three quarters done. So I was able to kind of keep track of my progress and if I had time to, to kind of slow down and take more time on certain questions or if I needed to speed up. And some of the tougher questions

I basically skipped and I came back later. I don't want to spend three or four minutes focusing on just one question when I could focus on the rest of the easier ones maybe. Yes. What advice would you give to someone who is going to take the exam shortly? I think just have just have all the notes you can in your book. Just focus. No, know your training, know what you've learned. Don't overthink anything. Look for those keywords and the paragraph and the answers to see which ones match the closest. Just stay nice and calm and it is what it is and you'll do great. Awesome, awesome. Well, I guess it really relies on your preparation leading up to that moment. That it does. So, all right. Well, at this point, after you take the exam or during this time that you're taking the exam and studying medical coding, you had left the animal world. And you mentioned that you had found a job in a health care office. Tell us a little bit about that. I think that was really important too. You won't always get your first job in medical coding right away. You got to really work for it. And I felt I had to prove myself a lot because I came from an animal background, not from medical background. So why would they want to hire someone who has no medical experience? I had some medical experience with the animals, but obviously none of the humans. Yes, yes. So I was able to

I interviewed for a medical assistant job where they were pretty open. If you're able to if you're able and willing to learn they they gave me a chance obviously but but once I did get that job I made sure they did not regret hiring me. I learned really fast and I just picked up on everything really as fast as I could. And that helped in just taking everything in and learning everything in that medical office that you can is really helpful for getting a coding job because that did help me with the code in job because I learned how to do casting and splinting and when some of the coders in my first job, which was an ER, an ER coding job, had questions about splinting, I was able to help help answer that and help find the correct codes. Awesome. That is awesome. So what was that role, again, what was that job title, your first health care job? Medical assistant. Okay, medical assistant. And you had no experience in health care leading into that. Okay, so how did you sell yourself to get that role? I told just being in being in the management field in the past, I know how important it is to, for someone to quickly learn a task and to not take a long time to learn it. And I just told, I told them my hard work ethic and basically just sold them myself and all my good qualities and told them if I do make mistakes, I'm very quick to learn or to learn what caused that mistake and how to get past it so that so mistakes don't happen again. And she just took a chance on me luckily. I love that. So, you know

you know, we often think that employers just want the skills of the job requirement, but that's only a part of it. And it may even be less than half of what they're looking for. They're looking for a team player, someone dependable, and you had an excellent track record in the past. And my record in the animal field, just even getting the management job at such a young age really helped, helped with that because not a lot of people can get into management at 26. So just seeing that and seeing the kind of drive I had and how responsible I was and all that I had to look over, all the tasks that I had to look over. And we did work, our animals were trained to work with the vet with their own, so nothing was ever forced they took shots on their own they we had a we did have to learn how to restrain some but but just even have just having some some medical knowledge did help that's great great to hear and you know so if you're watching I think you should follow Katie's lead here and look at you in your past and how does that apply to skills that you can take into a health care office. Katie you mentioned that your first coding job was ER coding? Yes. And was that within the same health system that you were working as a medical assistant? No, it was they're completely different organizations. I basically applied to every job possible. Even if it didn't say entry level

I applied to it because you never know if they're just trying to weed someone out that they don't want applying. You just have to apply it everywhere and whoever and just getting interview is important. You know to sell it yourself and then, and then I got a call from the manager for the ER coding staff and that was then that was it for that. All right. So when you go for this interview and you tell them about your animal care pass and you tell them about what you're currently doing medical assisting. How did they want you to prove or show your medical coding skills? Did you have to take an assessment or anything like that? Yes, I did take a, I did take a little, excuse me, a little coding test. They had some ER charts, obviously for the tests, so there's no patient's names or anything like that, and to kind of see how we would do coding it. I'm not going to lie, it wasn't my best, just because I wasn't really sure what I was fully reading, because I haven't read many ER charts, but I answered it the best I could. And yeah, and the same thing with a medical assistant, I told her how fast I learned with everything and she did like my experience with the medical assistant and how and how that could be helpful. That's great. Wow. So you go into the ER world and how is that where you're currently at? Are you still with the same organization? The organization about three years. Okay. And then they ended up merging with another company. And me and one other coder got hired to go at that company. And then I went on maternity leave. And then when I

and then I ended up to take a few months off. And then I've been with the separate or with the new company since August of 2020. And then I did do ER coding there, new company, but now I'm doing inpatient coding. Okay. So tell us a little bit about what it's like to be a staff medical coder now. I mean, you fulfilled this dream. So you're just knocking off. If you set your mind to something, you accomplish it. That's what I see, Katie. So here you are doing the medical coding. Was it what you thought it would be? Is it as fulfilling as you had hoped it would be? Yes, I definitely, I never wanted to do anything once I started, the teachers at the coding, at the coding course I took, I always said, ER coding is a great way to learn everything because you see some of everything as far as like colds and broken bones and trauma. And once I got to ER coding and started learning that, I loved it. I got my, the October, I got hired as a coder at the ER in 2016, in May of 2016, then in October of 2016, I took the certified emergency department certificate. So I also have that certificate along my PPC. So I love it. I'd really like to change to change venues. And then I know I did eventually want to become an inpatient coder. So luckily with this new company, the inpatient coder did was moving on to a new job and they were looking to someone else, have to have someone else learn how to do inpatient. So last fall, they asked if I wanted to become the inpatient coder and give that a try. I'm like, yes

yes, I would. Thank you. Awesome. That is awesome. So you are no longer a CPCA. You are a CPC. And then you have the AAPC emergency coding certification. And will you be be doing inpatient the inpatient coding certification? Yes, I'll be doing that. I still have to schedule the exam. Okay, but I'll be scheduling that that very soon. Okay. Have you so you've been studying for that? Slowly. And and of course coding for in patient in general, it's it's great and I've gotten I've grown to love it. Well, that's awesome. Well, that's so great to hear. And have you thought, because there are so many paths you could take auditing, compliance. Have you thought about branching off into other areas or training, things like that? Or you like what you do? I love what I do. I haven't really thought about. My goal eventually was to become an inpatient coder and I'm here, so I'm leaving in patient anytime soon. Awesome. Now, are you remote or are you in the office? You're remote? Okay. And I would imagine you have spent time as a coder in the office. Yes, my first, when I first got hired on, they weren't doing remote. So for the first two years as a coder, I was in the office, which I think is a good thing because as a new coder, I think if I was home, I would have been lost and probably wouldn't have learned as fast. Because it's harder to go talk to other coders and be like, hey

hey, can I see what you're doing this way or you can't get the in-person help as much. So for the first two years I wasn't in office and then in 2018 we moved to her route and then I've been a remote ever since. Okay and do you enjoy a remote? Is it? Yeah, it's a good thing? It's definitely been perfect for me just because I could, just the, my organization is more flexible. But basically, since I've been remote, I start work really early in the morning and I get done, so I start work above 5 a.m. And then I'm done by 1.30. Amazing. So going to start that early so I'd much prefer to be here and start early and that's right. All year, eliminating commute time and increasing family time. And I think you had mentioned you have a young family. Yes, I have two daughters, a four-year-old and two-year-old and then a boy do in June. Okay, so all of July. Yeah, sorry, sorry, very, baby brain. It's all a blur, you know, you start filing on the kids. So, I would imagine that your work flexibility being at home really helps out with with the family. It definitely does. I'm able to take my lunch break to take my girls to school if needed, if my husband can't do it. And then I'm able to, I'm done, they're done with school by 2 p.m. So I'm done by 1.30, so I pick them too and it's still a full day to do whatever. That's awesome. That's great to hear. Well, it is what a great choice you made with your career to help with your family, be there for your kids and you have a home life. So I have to, though, because once an animal lover, always an animal lover

do you have pets at home yourself? I do. I have, I have one greyhound and one beagle. Okay, all right. And do you still stay connected with that past life of yours at all? Do you have friends, I guess, who may work in the industry still and you see? I have some who work. Being gone for seven years from my last facility, though, it is kind of strange to go back and have the staff be almost turned over completely and just know like one or two that are still left. But we go to zoos and we'll go to the aquarium still, but I don't, I don't regret leaving and changing my careers. I'm, everything worked out, has worked up perfectly since changing into coding career career into coding. So, um, it's just been great. I'll gladly go visit the zoos all I'll want and that's right. I don't I thought I thought I would miss it more, but luckily I don't. Well, Katie, you I think you know from the Facebook group that coders seem to be animal lovers. I think they tend to, you know, they have their animals with them while they work on their lap on their desk. And with that in mind, are there, will tell us something fascinating about the zoo world that may be interesting to someone who doesn't know the behind the scenes life of that. Is there anything that you find fascinating that APC viewers might find interesting? Oh, um, well, the, there's just so much you could do with the animals and the zoos and aquariums that a lot of people think you can't. Like, we had our tigers trained to present their hips against the

against the fencing whenever the vet came and if they need any vaccines or any anesthesia were able to just give them the shot right in their hip. We had just the amount of stuff you're able to have them to have them participate in the care was really helpful. I'm trying to think, what else? Like, I guess, you know, we don't see a normal person who visits the zoo doesn't see the feeding. And I'd imagine that that's quite the production to feed all of those animals. Yes, that it is just working with the tigers themselves. They got weighed once a month and we based their how much food they got based up their weight just so that they wouldn't get overweight or underweight. And some of the females would eat maybe six pounds of food a day. Some of the males would eat 10 pounds of meat a day. And it was all restaurant grade foods. They got restaurant quality veal, beef, chicken, turkey, everything. They're, they're, what a life. Oh, that's awesome. Well, Katie, as we wind this down, what advice would you give to someone who is considering a career as a medical coder in the business side of health care? What would you say to someone who's sitting on the fence and considering it? Just to do your research, and just to give it a go, I mean, there's not, a lot of people do want to get into it. You do have to really want it. And I don't know, it's just from working with animals and getting a job in the anil field is really hard. So, so I'm not, I'm used to already having to kind of like, not not fight for a position

but you have to apply everywhere and you just can't, you can't get worried or nervous about not being able to get a job you just have to apply everywhere and then once you get hired or once you get an interview just sell yourself well all your positive qualities and and then once you do get hired follow through on those and I want you to tell the interviewer and just focus and learn fast. And just, I mean, I don't regret, like coming into coding has been one of the best decisions I made for my career. Yeah, and just, I loved, I I loved ER so you can't go around there you see some of everything so the to have you ever get an ER job it's definitely great. All right well awesome Katie thank you so much for sharing your story. Hold on with me just for a minute. For those who are watching, you can listen to Katie tell her story and listen to many other I am AAPC interviews on the AAPC podcast. Just visit on your podcast app, search for the AAPC podcast and you can subscribe there and listen to Katie and you can listen to AAPC social hour broadcast. We hope you join us there. Katie, thank you so much for your time. you

Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. Today we have El Saline Mosley from Florida and El Saline and I have met each other. We've known each other from the group. I think that we first met when when I first started and being a part of the group, and then we had a conference at Orlando Springs in Orlando, yeah. So, and I thought what a great opportunity to get to know more about your work history and where you've been and where you're going. So, Elson, why don't you tell us a little bit about your history in the world of medical coding. Well, it all started about 14 years ago. I was waiting for my youngest daughter to get old enough to go back to go to school. And I decided to go back into, because I was a business major, well, I was studying to get a major in business. And when I decided to went back to the job field, I wanted to still stay in the business area, but I wanted to be more specialized, something, not just business in general, but something specialized. And I looked into what was available around as far as diplomas and certificates and things like that. And the local college had an associate's of science degree in medical billing and coding. And I thought, well, I think I can do that. That sounds interesting. So I signed up for that. And you go to the whole anatomy and physiology classes and everything. And once I took the first coding class, a light bulb just went up. I went, this is it. This is what I want. I don't hear about the billing part. I just want to code. And I mean, I, you know

you know, I got my socialist degree. I started working in for the, I know this is way ahead, but for the new coders. I know everybody wants to go remote right off the bed, but I cannot tell you how important it is to start out with your foot inside an office, a medical office, a hospital, H.I.M. Department. That was my base right there. I put in my foot in the door with a company that does coding for their emergency doctors. So I started, I went in and said, I don't have any experience in this, but I can start doing data entry. I started with data entry. I got trained into insurance verification. So you were coding right out of the gate. Oh, no, I was not coding. I took me, I had to spend a year either doing data entry and insurance verification. Meanwhile, the person who hired me, she knew, I said, listen, my goal is to get into coding. So it's working to your coding department. But I'm going to put in the work. I'm going to show you what kind of employee I am. So I learned everything from scratch. And exactly a year later, I said for the for the CPC. It was 150 questions, five and a half hours or five hours, something like that. I was so nervous. But you know, it took me three and a half hours to finish that thing. Passed on the first time and then the next day I went into the manager and I said, I have letters after my name now. I can start coding and sure enough, she, you know, she, a year, you know, like a week later

I got transferred into the coding department. I started coding emergency charts pro fee for the actual doctor. Didn't know anything about facility or anything like that. So that was a year and a half there. Then I found out that there was another opening for a radiologist in the, which was like literally so much closer to my house. So I applied for that job and I got the position. So I went from coding for an emergency doctor to a the radiologist that's inside the hospitals in South Florida. They do the coding for them. So you, your training for the certification exam, was that all through the community college? It was all, it was all through the community college. I ended up with an associate's science degree with the track in medical billing and coding. Then I locked myself in my room every night, every single weeknight from 7 a.m. until 9 to 10 and I started hitting the books. I started studying for the for the CPC. You know, I purchased the books and everything. I did it on my, I went in on my, I mean, after I got the associate's degree, I studied on by myself and then I said for the. So, so you, after you completed your degree, you purchased some AAPC training? Is that right? Or was that another place? No, I think I went online and I purchased. It was just a, there is this lady that she teaches you how to, I forget her name this was 14 years ago, but she had like a, you know, how to obtain your CPC and so I just, I grabbed her at the mall, at the time, there wasn't any

I didn't even know that you guys were offering classes. I just knew I had to get a certification in order to code for this particular job. How helpful was your college training into in helping you prepare for the exam and the curriculum that you ended up learning from? It gave me the minimum basis. I mean, if I were to tell someone, oh, I want to get into medical building and coding. Having an associate's degree is great. It's awesome. I recommend it. But if you want to get on the fast track to getting your CPC and hopefully start working right away, really the, you know, your, you're, your DAPC online course is the way to go. The time, I don't think you guys had it available 14 years ago. I don't remember. I'm not sure. It was quite a while ago. But you know, for those who that want to go have the associate's degree and then go on to maybe on R. A. H. Get a bachelor's degree in H. I am. Yeah. That would go. I would let you go I would say yeah go through the college thing if you do just don't want to get the the the certificate itself then just go through the online classes. And that will get you like you said that's the fast track. It is the fast track. It's I mean I've I've seen a little bit of it. You know, it's thorough. It teaches you well. That's not how I went about it. I went it like the long way to do it. But it really it's up to whoever is, you know, what's your goal? What's your future? What do you want to do two years from now four years from now? Yeah. Now

was all of this in Florida? It was all in Florida. Okay. All right. Now you tell me about because you have that beautiful accent. Yeah. So why do you tell our members of a little bit about your, where you're from? Yeah, I was, I was born in Brazil and my parents moved to the US when I was 15 going on 16. So, you know, I went to high school here, did a little bit of college, but it was too expensive at the time. My parents couldn't afford to pay for the tuition, so I ended up going into the workforce full-time. So, you know, a lot of years just like working in an office environment being the secretary of this or assistant to the manager of whatever. So until until I, my daughter, I have two daughters, the youngest, once she, you know, I left work to raise them. And once they got out, the youngest got a little bit older, I say, okay, I'm not staying home. I got to go back to the workforce. Yeah, yeah. And I want to, I want to learn more about coding in Brazil, but I'm going to hold pause on that because we've, that's what led us to connect again. Oh my gosh, I had no idea. I had no idea that Brazil was, I mean, I don't know, I would love to somehow, how can I help like, you know, here I am, I, you know, I have the coding background, I speak English and Portuguese, I understand both cultures. Yeah. You know, I, how would I go about. Yeah. I don't know. And I'm super excited for you. So like, A. P. C. As many of you know, as I'm sure you know, that we are international and they're coding

their coding requirements for health care in UAE and South America, and I don't quite understand the complexities of that. We have a staff that helps with that, but I'm going to look into that for you and we actually have, yeah, we have a speaker and help coming up at HealthConn who's going to be talking about coding in Brazil. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah, yeah. But so I'm glad that, you know, I saw you mentioning that because someone brought up something about coding Brazil in the APC Facebook group. Right. I had no idea. I actually had to go back and Google it and read the the APC article about it. This is back in 2020, I think. I had no idea. Yeah. There's like a group of Brazilians who are actually being trained on, because I think Brazil is starting to do the whole ICD10, the classifications and everything. And I was like, what? Yeah, supporting their health care system. Yeah, so which is exciting. Well, you mentioned a few minutes ago that it took you around three hours to complete the CPC exam. Is that right? Three and a half hours. Yeah, three and a half hours. People watching this are going to think, oh man, I took, I'm going to take the whole time or if I don't finish in three and a half hours, I'm not as smart as El Saline. So I can explain how, how did you, what prepared you to be so efficient going through it and being successful in your first try. I tabbed all my books, first of all, make sure I knew where every single section was. I highlighted important parts. Things that I know always up

agnosis that you know you're going to constantly see like hypertension, diabetes, you know, congestive heart failure. I ran over the guidelines over and over again. There are combination codes, you know, and things like that. And also, you know, being, I speak Portuguese, so my, my language comes from Latin, and that helped a lot with the anatomy physiology, because I can't, exactly, I looked at me, wait a minute, I don't need to know English, or I don't need to know that anatomy to know that this belongs in this body part. So that, you know, if you're from a Latin background, whether South Florida Central or even Europe, you know, that's going to give you a little bit of an advantage to, but yeah, tabbing everything, all my little notes, I had to make sure that stuff that I knew, I said, this, you know, all in the laws and things like that, I, you know, because you can actually write notes in your book. You know, I wrote a lot of notes and I just, this is gonna sound crazy, but I actually went through the CPT book page by page. I wanted to know, okay, I know it starts with the integumentary and then it goes into the muscular skeletal and then it goes into, you know, I knew what was coming. Oh, this is a, this is a digestive. Let's go to the digestive. I already know where it is. So let's open the book and make sure that I'm there. Okay, what's the question? So that, that helped a lot. And that's what I hear is that when a big part of the exam is not knowing and storing information in your head

but not knowing where to go to find. And you can't. It's it's just it's like there's no way you can you just need if I can give one advice is just be really familiar with your coding books no where every not necessarily where the code is but nowhere where to go you, those tabbing those sections are so important. Tabbing your code books is so highlighting. And just really be familiar with where, you know, the table of the poisoning tables and, you know, things like the indexes. Okay. That will help you a lot. Now, over your 14 or so your career, it sounds like you've had a several different positions as we often do. Tell us about maybe your favorite position that you've had, or one of your favorite positions that you've had in that time span. My favorite physician position is actually what I'm still doing right now. I've had, you know, this is another thing that's going to sound crazy. I've had opportunities to move up into being a supervisor of the remote coding department for this hospital or that hospital. But you know what happens when you move up, you stop coding. You're no longer coding. Now you're supervising people. You're sitting in meetings after meetings, phone calls. And I'm like, I am going to go nuts. Because I, you know, I, I love coding surgeries. So that's what I've been doing right now. I code a lot of surgeries, a lot of observations. And 14 years, and I'm still learning new stuff. And that's what keeps me like staying, it's like, I'm not bored. I, you know, I don't, I don't want to do any, I don't want to manage people

I don't want to supervise people. I just want to continue to hold. You honestly love coding. I do. I mean, it's like my previous managers are like, you know, this position opened up, you know, you'd be a good, you have the experience in the background, you know, the software, you could be a really super, really great supervisor for this position. I'm like, thanks. But no, but here,thing though, if I was a single mom and I needed the income, I would I would sacrifice obviously. But you know, being married and having a second income and not having to be dependent on your paycheck to leave paycheck to paycheck. Yeah, that helps to. Circumstances. Yes, my personal allows me to say, eh, I still want to code. I still want to go. Well, before we recorded, you were giving me a little bit of insight into what your role is now. And it sounds very interesting. Would you explain what your role is right now, Celine? Well, I am an outpatient, what they call an outpatient coding specialist too. So I called a lot of the outpatient charts, the ER charts, the observation charts, the same day surgery charts. Once in a while when they're backed up, they'll ask me, can you do a little bit of ancillary for us? That's like, oh, super boring. But you know, I do it once in a while so basically I don't know if I if I should say the name of my employer and what they do but yeah you don't have to do that yeah you know they basically are going around the country and taking over the revenue cycle management of several hospitals so when when that happens, you know, their ECA

their ECA, their software, their assistant coding software takes over and they get back to up. And you know, there's also the whole pandemic thing, you know, people losing their jobs and the workforce is not as, there isn't a lot of people out there. So it, I have basically I have the capability to go into any hospital that my employer takes so, you know, controls the revenue cycle management and code for them. So anywhere from California to Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, the most recent one is actually Colorado. And there was just a new, there was a new email that just came out saying that my employer just took over another health care organization in California. So there's a possibility I might, you know, jumping there and help out their code is catch up. So. Okay. So you're helping revenue departments all across the country, but you're based in Florida. I'm based in Florida. I am, I am really a help out Arizona mostly because that's where I started. That's my main thing. And whoever needs the most afterwards, you know, they'll say, hey, I want you to take this day and help this this hospital out, that hospital out, you know, depending on the need. And you mentioned that you love surgical coding. I do. And do you do you have a say in being exclusively coding for for those or do you just get a whatever's needed? No, I don't have a say at all. Some days, you just, you go into a queue and there's like 200, 300, 400, 400 charts in there. And you know

we're in the productivity environment. So as long as I code a certain amount of charts per hour for eight hours a day, that's what I, that's what I'm expected to do. You know, some hospitals will send me actually an actual list and say, I want you to code from this list, as opposed to going to the as opposed to go going into the coding queue and just going down the list you know you just get an email from someone else. Okay well you've created this career that you love and there are there are others who are watching this thinking how can I do that. So what advice you having been in supervisor rules and probably in hiring processes and things like that and you and you have seen in the APC Facebook group coders saying how do I get my foot in the door. What advice would you give to a newly certified CPCC, CPCA who is looking to open that door and begin their career? Well, obviously the education is super important. Like I said, if you want to expand, continue going in moving up from a two-year degree to a four-year degree, you know, going through like a college kind of thing, environment, it would be, that's what I recommend. If you want to hit the ground running, but you don't know anything, the APC really has has you guys have the whole package ready I mean you have the the two the the you know the education the all the paperwork all the everything just go through just go through your program and study and you know wait to sit down for the test. You know, it takes work. It's not, it's not, you know, anybody, oh

oh, I think I'm going to do coding. It's a wonderful career. It's not for everybody. You need to be like a detail oriented person. You need to enjoy searching for things. I mean, these goals, don't just drop on your lap. You know, it's not everything is straight floor or black and white. Keep up with thethe new things that come out, all the coding guidelines and all the new codes and everything that comes out year after year. I mean, there's, you never stop learning. Keep that in your mind. You will never stop learning. it's a continuing education thing. Yes, yes, just because you passed your exam doesn't mean you can put away your books. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I 14 years and I still I still don't know what I wish I knew. Every day it's like wait there was a code for that. You know, it's like you, you've, and then there's a new procedure that just came out and the code doesn't even exist yet. I'm like, oh, maybe this is going to be one of those codes that next year might show up, you know. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, and I think just from hearing how you started not in a coding department. You got your foot in a door at a facility or a provider's office and that kind of open the floodgates. You let them know, hey, this is where I hope to be. Yeah, absolutely. And I will do what it takes to get there, but I will do, I want to support you however I can right now. Exactly. That's exactly what I did. And I know it not everybody can do that. But if you if you have the opportunity

just go in the office. It's like it's the best. You're going to be surrounded by other coders and billing people who have been doing this for a while. It truly is like the best environment for a new coder is to actually get in there and start even if it's answering the phone, you know, and being a receptionist and then if I want some point they're going to need help in the backhand. You know, somebody's going to move to another another job and they're going to, a billing position is going to open. A billing is great. It's a great start up too. You're like a billing representative. You're going to deal with codes, it won't be coding as much, but you're gonna be seeing the codes and you're gonna say, what I mean, I know that this code meets medical necessity for this procedure. So you're gonna have that advantage over anyone else who just doesn't have any. Yeah, yeah, I mean, your as a CPCA, knowing anatomy and medical terminology, all of that will shine. Yeah, in that setting for sure. All right. Well, any, any final thoughts for for someone in their career or maybe someone studying for the exam and what would you tell tell them as they prepare for what is now for our exam. What what thoughts would you share with them to help them be successful? Putting the work. Really, you're going to four or five days a week, you're going to come home and it's going to be tired, especially if you work full-time and you have a family or whether you're single, I don't know. But carve out that time. Every day you're going to find a room

open up your books and go through the coding classes and the exercises and just study. You know, just be ready. Get your books ready. All tabbed up, all highlighted. And just take a deep breath. You got 100 questions now? 100 questions. Is it 100 questions now? I know that the time went down to, yeah, four hours, 100 questions. You know, there's going to be a little bit of everything there. Just be very familiar with your coding books. Be familiar with your coding books. Try not to memorize stuff. You can't memorize that much stuff, but know where things are when you see a question that talks about a certain diagnosis or procedure. Oh, I know what that is in the book. That will save you so much time instead of, you know, I didn't do a lot of going into the index because I knew my book. I knew where to go to get the information that I needed. Between having that knowledge that from going through, just out of curiosity and looking through all the different pages and sections and tabbing, you're pretty well set. Yeah, absolutely. Well, El Saline, outside of coding, what kind of things do you do? You're in beautiful Florida, so I'm sure there's a lot to do. But are you a reader, are you an outdoor adventurist? What kind of things round out who you are? I did a lot of running. I started, I saw my, my husband and my friends started to just started

they started running attending races I'm like maybe I should do that too you know so I mean I you know I ran 16 half marathons and and I absolutely love to read I'm always reading something you know fantasy or romance or maybe it's what's going on in today's worlds. I love to read. I love to learn new things. You know, just taking care of my two dogs and my two cats. And at one point, I even had a beauty dragon that thankfully moved to Tallahassee with my oldest daughter. I know in Florida is such a wonderful, it's a nice place to live and it's it's like you're always there's so much to do outside but with what I do it's like I really don't have that much time to to be outside enjoying you know the weather and things like that I which I need to do I need to work on my work life balance a little bit more. Yeah we all good well yeah it's so fun to see you I'm so glad that we have this opportunity to reconnect and hear, I learn more about your story and I hope that it inspires future coders out there who are watching. El Saline, just hold on with me just for a minute as I wrap this up. So if you're watching our interview on our YouTube channel, you can also listen to El Saline share her story on our podcast if you use your go search for VAA PC podcast in your favorite podcast tool or app. You can find it there. And El Saline, thank you so much for sharing. And you have a great day. Thank you, you too.

Welcome to another edition of I'm APC. I'm A.P. Alex and today I have with me my friends. I think it's great. Thank you so much. Well, tell us, how did you get into medical coding? And did you start as a medical coder? Okay, so how did I get into medical coding? Okay, so my health, my coding career actually doesn't begin until like the 2000s, all right? So I began working in a medical records department at Cooper Hospital. So I basically in the health information management department. And as a as a, oh no let me just finish this out. Again, there wasn't an electronic medical record back then. Let me tell you this. Okay, so there were many different colors and pieces of paper. And there was many different colors of pieces of paper, and there was many chronological order. Radiological studies were green. Labs were white. They all had to be the same colors put together, and then they all had to be in chronological order. Radiological studies were green, labs were white, physician orders were pink. Okay, so you had to orderly, and that's the way those charts, you know, and that's how you would create a chart. And that chart would then be available to the clinical staff and everybody that was necessarily involved in the care of that patient. What was your biggest fear as you stepped into this career path? Or did you, were you just confident all on? I own it. Well, not fearful, but again, you need a job. And for many of the people that you're seeing, they're looking for alternatives, either be a primary job, a side hustle, or something

you kind of then start to get embedded in it. And the more you do so, the more people trust you and have confidence in you in the work that you're doing, your role increases and your presence increases in your daily professional life. Last question for you, Jim, did you ever, or did you ever imagine that your career would take off in the path that it has? I'm probably just still on the airstrip. Really, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, so I, nevertheless, with that said. With that said, you know, I wake up every day and I enjoy the people that I work with. You know, I represent Penn Medicine's Office of Bill and Compliance and I enjoy all the people that I work with and throughout my career, being a Cooper or Jefferson, like I said in Penn Medicine currently, whether they're in my department or not. It's a team effort. And we're all trying to do the, you know, the good work, you know, get those claims out cleanly, educate physicians to document appropriately, you know, so that we can, you know, get paid for the services that health care professionals dedicate their lives to really, you know, that was evident through COVID. And again, we were that administrative backbone that was making sure we were getting paid for those, you know, that good high quality clinical care that's delivered by, you know, health care professionals. Everybody, Jim, thank you so much.

Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. I am A.P. Alex and I am here with my friend Rita. How are you? I'm doing well. Excited that you're here to see us in Philadelphia. I'm so honored to be here with you guys. Now Rita, how are you? I'm doing well. Excited that you're here to see us in Philadelphia. I'm so honored to be here with you guys. Now, Rita, we want to hear your story. And not only will you make whoever else comes out feel comfortable and see how easy this is, right? Because we're going to get another volunteer or two. But I know you have had some milestones educationally recently, and I just thought it would be fun to hear your story a little bit just for a minute. So tell us how did you get into medical coding in the first place? Sure. I graduated from college and like those of us that graduated from college in 1988, yes I'm old, you had to find a job and we thought, you know, we're going to make all this funny and I couldn't really find what I wanted to do and that was actually, I wanted to work in international business. I should be sitting in a French French career now, but that didn't work out. So I needed a job and my primary care physician said, come work for me. I said, okay, it's a temporary stop. So if any of you have worked in a single practitioner office, especially primary care, you have done it all. So I used to write the Hick performs out. I used to record payments in a copy book. I used to make the paper charts, schedule appointments in that big book like a hairdresser used to have

right? So that was my for right into this journey. And then what happened was I wanted to move on and get a higher level job. So I was recruited to work in orthopedics at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital and Pennsylvania Hospital at the time they were both in both hospitals. So I started out you know being recognized for a go-getter, a catalyst as I would say. I take one in each assignment and then I ended up moving my way up the ladder so and I just had this conversation with somebody else I never a little turned out by I was just recruited to go into the next journey and I worked doing everything and I started to have a passion right because what was not that the passion when people say I want to get into the coding and you just say I want to get into Cody you got got to have a passion for it, right? We have to be able to peel the onion and try to figure things out, right? And that became my journey to APC. So if you've ever read anything about me or ever heard of the APC, the one thing I do say is I am on that today because of my involvement with the APC. If somebody told me 25 years ago I was speaking in front of 200 people or 300 people or being interviewed or so many things that happened over my lifetime, I was in here crazy because I used to panic when I left in a church. So things have changed. My journey into leadership, a lot of it was because of my involved with the APC, being a chapter officer, being on the board

just kind of changed my outlook on life. And then that's what I am today. And then I always wanted to go back and get my master's degree. But the reason why I ended up in on holidays because my mother was sick and my dad got sick and my dad got sick. I got married late life I had great son and then I didn't have time. So my son entered, especially in your college and along with my leader at where I'm at today my son-turned-around me and said, you're tied now. So I walked on May 14, 2023 and I graduated with my NHA of 4.0 from Rutgers University. And so my journey and what I tell everyone is it's never too late to get that extra certification. It's never too late to go back for anything. I worked 23 years in one institution and at 49 and I left and went into Brian today and turned 50, six months later when I was there and I'm still there eight years later. So it's never too late. Don't ever feel like you cannot do something. And the one thing that I've always said, and many of you that know me from the APC, no. We are a supportive network. We do what we do because we have the support from AAPC. All the members, I can honestly say, and my friends are sitting at that table, I have a friend in every single state in the United States, including Puerto Rico and Guam and Indian. So I'm honored to say that because that's what networking is about in connection. And when I have a question like I had the other day, I texted four of my friends and said

have you heard this? Because this is new to me. And that's what it's about is getting at. So your journey continues and continues. And it continues. And it continues. And why do I still become an officer? Why do I speak virtually?, why do I go to the health con? It's because you always want to learn, right? You don't ever want to stop learning. And that's what's the biggest part of it. And I would say AAPC is wonderful. Every single person you meet within that organization is always welcoming and always willing to help. And I don't think I've ever had a bid for a parade into anything. But, you know, people land in this job for different reasons, right? How many people here for a second career, right? How many have you started one place and ended up in another, right? Like I said, I had, if someone was doing what I did today, I say, you are crazy, I don't want to work in medicine, right? But it is. And we're the business side of medicine, which is extremely important. Alex and I had this conversation a little while ago, right? Most people only understand the clinical side, right? They look at health care as clinical, they don't look at this business, and all of us have a piece in that. We are all about patient satisfaction, employee engagement, you know, professionalism, growth. That's all about what we do. She answered all of my questions. She knows what the best. Okay. A, you see. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Rita.

Okay, welcome back to I am a PC. I am here chatting with Barb Williams. Barb, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. Thanks, Heather. First, can you tell me a little bit about yourself? Where are you from? Where are you right now? Do you have pets, kids? Sure. I was born in Pittsburgh, raised in Pittsburgh. I'm still in Pittsburgh. I'm trying to leave Pittsburgh. Oh, no, why? Well, I'm starting to think about my twilight years and I actually purchased a farmhouse out near Punctani, Pennsylvania that I'm trying to renovate so I can have it for my retirement place. So I love that. I'm in transition. I spent half my time in Pittsburgh, half my time in Punctani. So yeah. Cool. So that's what I do. I have one son, David. He's 42. And he keeps me hopping. Like, your son will keep you hopping. As children do. Yes, but I love him dearly. We have a lot of rescue animals. In fact, when I was getting ready to leave my farmhouse on Sunday, there's a rabbit hole at the corner of the farmhouse and something crawled out of it and I took a step back because the rabbits usually don't come out of it when I'm there and it was a kitten that someone had dropped off and it kind of made its way in there. And so I brought it home. It's a little port of shell and her name is Butterscotch. Oh, that's exciting. Yes. So she's she's a cat number five. But first one for me in this house, I'm kind of staying with my son during the transition. But we also have two dogs, we have Tank and Liberty

and Tank is a red-nosed pit and Liberty is an Australian cattlehound. That's so fun. I think, I can't remember, I did one of these interviews a couple of weeks ago and she also had a red-nosed pit. Yeah he he's my boy. He loves me dearly so he's going to start traveling with me up to Punxatani keep me safe from the bears and the wildlife up there. I feel like in my experience everyone in the medical coding community they're all animal people. I don't know what it is but like yeah we're all into yeah the captain dogs and I love it. Yeah so I mean my whole family does that rescues and yeah it's just know, tears at my heart to see sometimes what people do to animals. So I can't watch those commercials. I know. Yeah, the Sarah McLaughlin's. Yeah, I'm glad that Butterscotch found her way to you, because it could have, what a blessing. It could have could have been badly yes it's true well thank you for sharing I mean that's exciting about your farmhouse David sounds great the animals amazing yeah yeah okay well I guess we could talk about like professional stuff if we want to yeah yeah yeah yeah I going to ask, so how did you get into medical coding? Can you tell me the trajectory of your career and how that's gone? It's not a normal entrance into medical coding. Right. And then again, nothing in my life has been normal or average. I actually got into medical coding as a contingency plan. So I was trying to transfer or get out of one industry and into another. And I decided to go back to school

but I decided to go to medical school. So there are prerequisites and biology and chemistry and everything that you have to have. It's actually kind of sad, but the week before I was supposed to sit for my MCATs, my mother passed away, and I lost interest and focused. And I continued on with the contingency plan and my professor, I was taking medical insurance classes, anatomy and physiology, I was taking the medical terminology

and then this program opened at the college for medical insurance and I said well I got a letter saying you meet the prerequisites would you like to join this okay I'm still interested in health care I'll take this and then my professor recommended me for a position so filler slash coder and that got me started and then every position I've had since then they've basically come to me so I have not had to do a job search so when people say how do I search for a job well. I can tell you but I can't tell you from experience. So I started out as billing and coding for an imaging facility and I had a background in finance and banking and I was actually in a collections unit at a bank. So part of the job was you know patient collections. Okay. So it kind of rolled into into that. I was working there one night and someone came in from an orthopedic unit and they were getting an MRI and they said you know we're looking for a bill or a coder if you know anyone and I said well gee let me see if I can move up and I did and I actually became a billing manager there and then I was recruited heavily by Highmark in Pittsburgh for a risk adjustment department that they were starting and they hounded me for six months and I finally gave in. I said, okay, let's see what this is about. So yeah

so that's how my career progression has been. And I'm currently a project manager with Highmark and I've been there actually last week was my eight year anniversary with them and yeah so I handle a lot of the new coding projects that come out I make sure that the end-to-end process is going to work I actually do QA on our external vendor codes, the codes that they submit to us. I educate the external vendors when we find trends for miscoding, etc. I educate our internal coders as well and I do provider education as well. So it's this whole big conglomeration. In the meantime, let me back up two jobs ago, the director of that medical insurance program at the college was leaving and she recommended me for that position as well. And it's a part-time position, so I've been teaching medical insurance from taking the insurance card all the way through appealing denials. I've been teaching at the college for 28 years. So as if a full-time job and being a mom and having a farmhouse and having seven plus animals is not enough. You also right. This is true. Yes. I love that. I mean it just goes to show how like talented you are that you have been recruited for all of your roles. That's so exciting. Good for you. Yeah. I word of mouth is one of the best marketing tools. Oh, cool. So, you know, one, a bit of advice is, you know, if you're, if you're going to have a reputation, make sure it's a good one. Yeah. Okay, that's, that's word of advice number one. I'm gonna add on to my crazy schedule. Okay. I've been the president of our local chapter

Greater Pittsburgh, for eight of the nine last years. Yes, by the way, I was going to congratulate you on winning the 2021 Officer of the Year Award. Let me tell you how shocked I was during that meeting when they told me. I think I cried the entire time that we were talking because I had no idea. I was even nominated. I mean I go through my day and I get through my day and I start thinking about the next day before I even go to sleep and I just had no idea they completely blindsided me and that is truly truly an honor that hits me in the fields. Well deserved I'm sure and then featured of course in October the HBM but that's so exciting. So yeah, wow, you are very busy. Yes, yeah, very busy. I do have multiple certifications. So please, the rack. Let's hear him. So I'm going to come up with word of advice number two. I started out with a CPC. So this is when we had five hours, not five hours and 40 minutes and you had to have the CPC before you could take any specialty exams. Now you can jump right into a specialty exam. So I have a CPC. And then, since I was working in a radiology facility, I did obtain a radiology certification, which is now defunct. They took it away for a few years and they brought it back as the interventional radiology, the IRCC. But they didn't grandfather anybody in because it's a different animal. And then, so I lost that certification. And then I was working for the orthopedic, so I went and took the orthopedic certification. And at that time

we didn't have webinars. You had to drive everywhere to get your CEUs. And they didn't offer enough in orthopedics, so I lost that certification. But when I started with homework in the risk adjustment department, I took my CRC and I passed that, and then a few years later, I took the CDO and I passed that and then a few years later I took the CDEO and I passed that. So I would have one, two, three, four, five certifications if one hadn't become defunct and one had had enough CEUs in a year. So advice point number two, maintain those C.E.U.S. Yeah. You're a good sleep. Maintain your seat and use. Well, especially, I mean, there, yes. And there's so much easier to get these days, right? Like, with like, online availability, so. Right. The, the monthly magazine, the quarterly free webinars, please your local chapter meetings. I can't even tell you how many times someone has come to me and said, I need CEUs, well you haven't been joining the chapter meetings, they're free when they're online. So join. It's two hours of your two hours of your month. Yes. So join a chapter meeting once in a while. So yeah, yeah, there are very easy ways to obtain those free CEUs to maintain your certifications. So, so let's talk a little bit about the tests themselves. Yes. Man, that first one I took was, oh, yeah. I feel like that's usually what people say is the first, it's just the shock of it, it is its own beast, and then kind of you can adjust, but please tell me about your experience. So the first one, I actually had to go to a psychiatric hospital

not afterwards. They helped me test in this psychiatric hospital, Western Psychic here in Pittsburgh. And when the test was over, I felt like I had been abused for a long time. My brain was battered and I literally walked down the hill. It sits at the top of the hill. I walked down the hill and there were several bars across the street and I said, do I want to? I went home that night and just tried, I couldn't even remember any of the questions on the test because there was so much going on with my head at that time. But the second, third, fourth, and fifth, they were so much easier because I knew how to study after the first one. Can you share some tips for our favorite families? The best tip that I can give you for any of these exams, learn the guidelines. There are multiple choice exams, so they give you the answers. They're not testing your ability to look in the index and go to the tabular list and find a code because they've given you the codes. They're testing your ability to pay attention to the details in the situation and apply the appropriate guideline. So the best information I can give you is learn those guidelines. It's too late while you're sitting in the test to read, you don't have time to read the guidelines and figure out how to apply them. So learn these guidelines in advance, ask your questions for clarification, and actually the night before your exam put everything away because it becomes muddled in your brain. That's what

so I've done a couple of these interviews and I feel like that's almost what everyone says. Like they say like study hard and then like the day before like let it go like you have to let your brain rest. And yeah. I took a pharmacology course from a gentleman who had seven PhDs and I was just in awe of this man. I had never met anyone so educated and I asked him how do you do that? And one of his PhDs was in Norris psychiatry. So please give me some memory tips. And he said, study as hard as you can, but let your brain rest the day before because that's when you get confused. Yeah. And then he said, and after your exam, don't pick your books back up, because you won't remember what exactly was on the test and treat yourself well. Because you have that adrenaline rush during the exam, and then when the exam's over, your adrenaline drops off, and that's when you start to feel depressed. So treat yourself well. So when I proctor an exam, I tell people, treat yourself well tonight. Yeah, take your bubble bath, eat a good meal, eat that chocolate if you need it. I love that. I love that. That's great advice. Did you utilize the practice exams or study guides or is that something you would recommend? I did use the study guides and practice exams for the CRC and the CDEO. They were not available at the point where I took the orthopedic and radiology. That was actually a paper booklet. Yeah, that's how long ago that was. It was a minute ago. Yeah, it was a hot minute. Yeah, but I did for the CRC and the CDEO

I did purchase the study guides and the practice exams and I made sure that I took them. With the practice exams, you have to watch not only your accuracy but your speed. You have to basically do a little mathematical formula to figure out if you're going to fit within that time frame. So yeah but I did purchase those and actually glutton for punishment I have the CPB study guide you are with me now. now. I have heard that the practice tests or the practice exams, like the best thing they are doing is helping you allocate your time appropriately. So like accuracy is important, but it's about like recognizing like, okay, I only have this much time on these many sections or whatever so that people don't get like bombarded on exam day, right? Like they kind of know. Yeah. Right. I've heard from several people that the practice exams don't accurately reflect what's on the test, but I tell them, well, they're not going to give you the test questions. So you're looking at the format, you're looking at how the questions are structured, and you can learn how to take that test from these practice exams. Right. Yeah. Yeah. There is there is learning to be had from them. So, yes. Good. Good. I'm glad they've been useful for you. Um, okay, any other, you have given such great advice, just like career advice and exam readiness advice. Is there any other advice you'd want to give to people who are either new or like even like veterans in the industry? Network. You know, I, we have, I just looked it up today

685 members in our chapter. And if we have a question, if someone has a question, they reach out to a chapter officer. We send the question out to every single chapter member. And we get, you know, we have people who are engaged with a chapter who will respond or point us in the right direction to someone who is working in that industry, maybe from a different chapter, but network. Yeah. Networking is where you're going to get the best information on the industry. If you want to move to another specialty, you can ask someone in the chapter. It's the best way to find out where there are openings because our chapter members send us the open positions and we broadcast them. Yeah. And join the meetings. You get more information than just coding from these meetings. We have chat before the meetings begin. You know, we have quite, we have a nice little core of members who we've met through our in-person meetings but we've kept in touch with through the Zoom and we keep in touch with individuals' personal lives and it's a nice little core that we have to attend the meetings, network. Networking is one of the best ways that you can find out. Information in the industry, new positions that are available, information that you need for coding. So don't just sit in a bubble by yourself. Coding is sometimes an isolated position, isolated job duty, but that doesn't stop you for networking. Yeah, I love that. Is there anything else you want to share with the AAPC community? I have some really good recipes. What are they for and can you send them to me? Yeah

crop pot. You put them at lunch and it's done at dinner time. It's magic. Actually sounds great. You can send the comulator. Actually, I wonder if we can, can you send your favorite one and we can post it with this? Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay, I can do that. You offered, we're taking you up on the offer? That's fine. Okay, well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. I know that the community is really going to appreciate you sharing your expertise and tips. Okay, thank you. Great. Okay, bye.

Hello, AAPC family. We are back with another episode of I am AAPC. I am AAPC, Alex McKinley from the AAPC National Office. And we with I am AAPC. I am AAPC. Alex McKinley from the AAPC National Office. And we, with I am AAPC, are trying to find the stories of AAPC members. And today we have longtime member Gina Petrilli with us. Gina, hello. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, you know, we've known each other for a few years. We've ran into each other at conference. Couple minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a couple minutes. So tell us before we dig into your past and the path that Gina took in the business of health care, tell us what who is Gina now and what does she do, where does she work, those sorts of things. Gina right now is a senior consultant for a company called Granite GRC, governance risk consulting consulting, consulting, government right? Yeah. We're basically a company that's out there to enhance revenues, efficiencies, reputations. We focus on compliance. Any issues within the practice or the organization that are concerning, they kind of call us, we come in, we do coding audits, we do billing audits, we do compliance office audits, risk audits, just to make sure that everybody is on the up and up and they're following current guidelines and you know nobody's going to get into any sort of trouble for doing the wrong thing. We also work on the PE side, the private equity side. So if you're thinking of selling your wonderful practice, Alex, for example, you may pull our company in to just kind of, or buying a practice

to just kind of evaluate what is happening so that you can be confident in the product that either you're selling or you're going to acquire. It's a lot of fun. Well, I'm hearing lots of compliance and auditing. Is that your background or tell us about that? I started off as a receptionist actually. My main background, I was on the pro side. I was on the pro fee side for a very, very long time. And I realized that I had been doing it a long time and I had no idea about the facility side. So about six years ago I jumped over onto the facility side and I hung around and paddle around in that water for a little bit and then decided it's time to take all of this knowledge into a consulting sort of role so that I can be in every aspect of the revenue cycle in the health care organization. Awesome, awesome. Now I see your picture show up on local chapter Facebook group feeds all the time. So I know you're out on the speaking circuit. When do you speak at local chapters, what do you speak about? We talk, the one that's been most popular, especially now with COVID is the networking. There's one that I have that's called build a network, get the job. And that basically is composed of how to network, how to network on social media, and more specifically now that we are all, you know, relegated home, how to have a presence digitally. We also discuss resume writing skills. I cover resume writing for the new coder, you know, the myths about the A that we all hear about. We cover interview skills, cover letters

all sorts of stuff. And then the other things that I speak about, we also do, I also do professionalism. But a lot of the chapters like to hear the revenue cycle presentation because we basically follow the journey of a claim and setting up a pre-authorization platform or a utilization review management platform, you can call it either are, especially now with all of with these health care replacement plans, HMOs and things like that. Everybody's requiring authorization and so many of they're just losing this money because they just don't know any better, you know, the bit this, it's an ever-changing world in health care revenue cycle. So it's good to, it's hard to stay on top of it, but that's why I'm here. So, that's right.. Well how long have you been a PC member for you know? 2000 Riley was born in 2004 2005 2006. Okay all right so my number begins with a 010 that many years. Well tell us about your path into into this career field. Oh my gosh, it's really, really funny because I started off, I was, I worked in restaurants forever. I loved serving people being, you know, being that people person. And I ended up getting a job. I wanted a 9 to 5 job because I was getting tired and I was a mom and I got a job as a receptionist in a physical therapy office. And I was like, oh, this is cool. And then one of the billing companies, like the way I treated the patients there. She was actually a patient. And she was like, you should come over here. I had no idea what I was doing and I was like, all right, you know

you know, it's a couple extra bucks. So over there I went and I was just doing, I was strictly data entry. It was for, it was pathology, strictly data entry, 8, 305, 26, 8, 8, 305, 26 all day long. And a friend of mine got a certification in coding and I was like well she can do it I can do it so I jumped into a coding class and I got my certification and it was awesome but I did nothing with it I didn't do anything with it I was like yeah give you a dollar you a dollar more. And then I changed jobs again because, you know, I needed to make more money and I went back to the restaurant business. I let everything expire. Okay, again, the same thing happened. You know, what do they call insanity repeating the same thing over and over again? I was tired. I had young kids. So I went back into coding and I was like, I'll just take this test again, you know, because the position had come open. I went in, I had been out of it for about three years. I went and I took that test. It was awful. I did terrible. And I was just like, oh my gosh, I honestly thought that I would just be able to go right back in and I know the books, you know, but it had been too long. So actually failed it when I took it again to get recertified. I'd have to get it again. I need to ask, I need to ask was, and you can be completely honest, was this the APC exam. Yes. That was so it's for the CPC. Yes, the CPC exam. And you know, we see students all the time in the Facebook group. You see this as well. I'm sure, you know

you know, that struggle of passing the exam. How did you feel? How many times did it take the past? Like give us some of your thought process about that. I had an in the first time I took the exam, I had an incredible teacher. Her name was Donna Borhill and she is just invaluable. And I took that exam and I scored so high. It was wonderful. Then I let it expire. So when I went back to take the exam because, you know, I am a genius and I just decided to go in without having touced it. And I think I even brought outdated code books, Alex. It was so bad. I was a little too confident, you know. So I failed it that one time and then I decided to do something, what was, I studied, I studied it. I went back to all of my old notes to the old guidelines and I passed it the second time. And I remember saying that day, I was like, I will never ever let my certification expire again because I never want to take this test again. These are the worst tests. They're so, because they are, they're hard, you know, and they should be. They should be. And there's so much going on during that exam because you put your heart and soul into it. And I've seen people that have failed it five or six times. The fact that they failed it five or six times and finally passed it on the seventh, what does that say for that character, right? Those are the people that just have that no-quit ambition. Those are my favorite, honestly. I mean, great if you pass it on the first time, but the people that get up and do that test over and over again, you know, they've got

what do you call it, hutspa, you know, and such ambition and such dry. They want it, they want it so bad and they're so dis- It's terribly disappointing. I know what it feels like to have failed that test. I remember when I took my CPMA, I had the flu and I was very sick and I was just like I'm never doing this again. I'm not taking this test. And I have a very, I'm very hard on myself. I want to get over a 95 on everything I do. I got a 70 on that. I had never been so happy to see a 70. When I posted my pass, I posted by grade too, because I was not at all embarrassed. I was like, that is a pass. This is on the CPMA exam. This was on the CPMA. You know, and then recently I got my CPP, another very difficult exam that I did pass. And I'm just trying to, as you're going through, and I think it's really important, as we're going through these exams and you're getting all of these certifications, which are absolutely fantastic, take the 70. Don't be disappointed in yourself. Take the pass. These tests are hard for a reason. And now I'm just like, you know, now I look at it, I just want to pass. I'm not going to put so much pressure on myself that I have to get this 90. I do shoot for 95 and above in the coursework. That I will admit to. But when I'm on the exam, I just want to pass this exam. I know I know the material. You know, I just got to let AAPC know that I know the material and then I'm well on my way and I'm out the door. I'm not saying strides for nothing by all means

but don put the pressure on yourself to get this incredible score because these tests, they're difficult for a reason. Now was the exam back then similar similar to how it's set up now for or five hours long basically. It was yeah, it was five hours and 40 minutes, butthey, I think they did breaks. It was different. They did breaks. There were no ADAs or anything like that. And now what is it? Now it's just six hours of a run clock. No, it's five hours, 40 minutes still. But they somehow, and that was the only thing that is different. They put in breaks. They're like, anybody going to go in a bathroom? Yeah. Well, so you pass the exam that second time and you're at this point you're still working in the food industry. No, I'm back into medical coding. This is when it gets really good. This is when the story gets really great. So now I go to a chapter meeting in Middletown, New York, and there's an auditor there. And I had just received my auditing certification or I was studying for it. And my sister looks at me and she's like, I don't know why you're not talking at these meetings. You talk all the time. You have so much to say. This is like your thing. You would be good at this. And I'm like

I don't know. So we decided to go to a conference. We went to the Atlantic City Regional Conference. And my first session was with Brenda Edwards. And she was talking about grapefruit and she came out the gate and it was incredible. And I looked at her and it was like my twin and I looked at my sister who was always just pushed and pushed me. And I was like, I'm gonna speak at the next conference. I'm gonna get so active in this association that, you know, I'm going to make things happen. From then, I decided to spearhead and open a chapter. And what I did, I just became so active within the association. Any networking opportunity I ran at, you know, and even now, so, and now I'm creating those networking opportunities and trying to, you know, utilize the chat box when I'm doing, because I've got about 40 presentations plan for this year at chapters, which is wonderful, that's kind of what I like, I like that about COVID. And I'm telling, I'm like, use the chat box. Anybody in here from orthopedics? I will not get offended. I'm used to seeing side conversations. They happen to a limit. But if you need anything, utilize that chat box and put it in that chat box. This is what we have right now. We can't go table to table like we do at conferences or, you know, meetings. And that was a big, I was missing that a lot during national, but we still managed to, we definitely managed to figure it out. I know the web, the app was very busy, but when I first went on and now I'm kind of going off. My first chapter board

I completely missed the most important step that I think is very very very Critical to mention the first time I was on a chapter board I was the worst chapter board member on the planet I was I I was what they call a warm body I walked into a chapter meeting and they said oh Gina's here you, you could be our, what was I, education officer? And I'm like, yeah, whatever. You know, and this is before I had made the decision to be super active. I was terrible. I didn't care. I thought I was doing the, I was doing them a favor by being part of this board, and I was not a good board member. And it was during that term that I was thinking, well, yeah, it's voluntary. It's completely and totally voluntary. But if you're going to sit here and do a terrible job, Gina, why are you volunteering? You know, it's, and I had this like epiphany during that term, and I felt terrible. and I think that's why I feel the need to give back as much as I possibly can to AAPC for that reason and for the reason that this wouldn't be, I wouldn't be sitting in this chair, I wouldn't be sitting with you, I wouldn't have my dream job if not for the AAPC and the members because there is so much opportunity you just have to grab it and you got to go. I wanted to talk more about about why you should serve for local chapters and and maybe in the APCCA board of directors but But first

I want you to share a little bit about your evolution career wise. So you've had these positions to dip your toes in the water a little bit. And then we know where you are now. But what did your career path to look like? Normal. Like that. I would apply for jobs that I knew I wasn't qualified for. I would apply for jobs that I knew I wasn't qualified for. I would apply for jobs that I knew I didn't have the experience and I would hope to win them over in the interview because I know personally that I can learn anything. I will take a task and I will learn it. I never I only allowed the hiring manager to keep me from applying when they said no no, no, no, no, your qualifications don't count. And that's what I try to apply for everything. So I applied for a job as a project manager with a billing company. I got it. And I was, and I ended up being really, that was my first somewhat management position. Before that, I was just a, I was not just a biller, but I was only doing the billing red cycle side of things. And that was it. From the time I took that project manager position, I realized that I had kind of a knack for leadership. And I was good at my job, but I continued to learn and like, faster and attend meetings and read anything that was coming out on whatever, you know, specific topic that I was dealing with at that moment. And I took a project manager position, another position became available. Oh, I should note that all of my jobs have come from AAPC contacts. Oh

wow. Every single one of them. That gives me goosebumps. Came from AAPC contacts. My last job came from an AAPC contact and now I'm working side by side with her Joette Derricks, I'm sure you recognize the name, you know, and I'm working elbow to elbow with someone from a professional and I'm not ashamed to admit it, I'm being mentored by one of the best in the business and it still gives me the gooseies a little bit because sometimes I look around and I'm like what am I doing here? I remember when I sat on my first panel at HealthCon and Mike Misko is over here and you know Rhonda's there and all these people that I'm used to watching and I'm just sitting on this panel thinking, why am I here? You know, and I said the same thing to Mike because I was very, very nervous and I was like, I don't understand why they invited me to be on the panel. And he said, because you know what you're talking about, let's go, you know, and that was it. And I was like oh, this is amazing, you're right, I do belong here. I absolutely do, but every job that I've gotten was through an AAPC contact or they saw something they went to a session or listened to a meeting or anything like that, every single one of them. You know, when we see newly certified members talk about the challenges of finding the first job on social media, we often just strongly encourage them to attend their chapter meetings, network, find out the code who the coders are in their local area. Do you have anything to add to that

Gina? Start from the bottom. Get in the door. You got to get in the house because if you're not in the house, and I have a really good story about that as well. If they don't know you're there, no, but it's really hard to jump in at the top level. And when you're a certified professional coder, your coder, that's your level, right? So you're immediately leaping right for the top. And unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way. And you have to prove yourself. And the only way that you can really do that unless you get lucky. And we do get lucky, know what happens, is starting at the bottom. I hired a girl, there was a girl that was hired in the kitchen of the hospital that I was working previously and she took the job in the hospital. We were sitting there we were talking and she says well I just graduated this medical billing class and I'm like which one she was like it was online through the AAPC and I said, really? I was ordering a ham and grilled cheese with ham or something. So I said, what are you doing here? And she said, I have to get in. And she started making grilled cheese sandwiches. She made grilled cheese sandwiches for about six months until I stole her, you know, but sometimes... You know, there's a relationship there. Exactly. She used to make my grilled cheese sandwiches, you know, and when she, we had this conversation, I was so, I admired her, you know, her grit. Who wants to make grilled cheese sandwiches, you know, but talk about starting, you know, on the lower floor. She was like, I was

I was, she applied for security. She applied for everything, you know, but that's how she got in. And she is one of the main coders. Now, you know, she did very, very well. So don't be afraid to start at the bottom. Don't be afraid of data entry. Don't be afraid at front desk. Who's going to get that first offer? You know, who's going to be the first to know that somebody from your billing office went elsewhere? It's going to be us in the office. And then you can slowly start to prove yourself. And you have to let the overseers know what you're capable of too, which is very, very important because the resume comes, we interview, the resume goes. You know, sometimes they need a little reminder of what you're doing, where you are, what your knowledge bases, that sort of thing. So don't be afraid to start at the bottom. That's probably the best advice that I can give. And just be, have a, have reality about what's going to happen. There's a lot of jobs out there, but there's a lot more of us coming out than there are jobs, you know, and that would be the best, best piece of advice that I can give. Just get in the door, get in the door. It's so awesome to hear that your path has been not led, I mean, you've made your choices, but it's been guided by great APC members who you know and have built those same relationships with. Amazing. I'm so grateful. So you spoke about taking a position at your local chapter as education officer and you're like, oh, why am I doing this? No passion when you first did that. Nothing. Nothing. What lit your fire

you know? Personally, I was I was feeling like a real failure to the chapter at one point because I don't I wish I could remember exactly what happened. Oh, that's what it was. So I'm very, I'm sorry, I'm very, very transparent about my, I wrote about it in health care business monthly about, you know, I think, I just think it's important because you can recover from that. Yes. You can recover from a bad decision that you made or a tougher time in your life. There was an AAPC exam. Oh my gosh, don't be mad at me. There was an AAPC exam and I was supposed to host it or proctor, I was second proctor and it was my niece's graduation and I remember being so upset that they weren't going to find another proctor for me because what is it? And then I started after that experience, a friend that was in the chapter she covered the exam for me and after that experience I was like there were so many people that studied for this exam and they were coming to this exam. What if I didn't show up? What would I be? And that was it. That was my, that was my turning point. When I thought about disappointing someone else out of my own, because of my own selfishness, it really got to me because that's not the type of person I am. I've probably now proctored 843 exams since then, trying to make peace. You know, the test did go on, somebody covered it for me, but you have to, you, they just don't, chapter boards don't need a warm body. They need somebody with some passion and who cares. And that's the way I feel about our members

our members are my family. I am always available to answer emails, things like that. Because one, it may, it's fun and it's quite fulfilling. It's absolutely fulfilling. I love to be able to empower others, give them just that, you know, that vote of confidence or pat on the back that they need, you know, that goes back to my restaurant days. I'm a people girl. I like people. So, and then from then on, I, my entire world change. I started handling everything differently. My home life, my work life. It's like stop being selfish. This isn't about you. This is about other people. And if I'm making my decisions based on, you know, the successes of others around me, they're all going to be good decisions because it's definitely not a good, going to be a bad decision on my part. And you served on the local level and eventually chose to take the leap into a national level. So tell us about your national volunteer service. Best experience of my life. I was on the Chapter Association Board of Directors from 2017 until 2020. What year is it? Oh, I lost the COVID year. That gave me the opportunity to truly dive in and mix it up with the members. And get to know the national side of AAPC and exactly what goes on, you know, and to become friends with you, Alex. You know, to really dig into what our mission is and the mission of the Chapter Association is to support our local chapters. And there are so many wonderful chapter boards out there that are doing excellent things, excellent things for their members that there's, and there's over 500 of them

so it's hard for National to kind of keep an eye on them. they can get lost on the shuffle but with the BOD in place we can make sure that that doesn't happen and we try to being able to assist them in any way to be successful and create free CEU opportunities, job opportunities, networking opportunities for those members. It's just, it's such a fulfilling, fulfilling thing to do. And I know there are, there are many, like you said, over 500 local chapters. Some are thriving and to have great unity and a lot of energy. And there are some who they may just be in their infancy in trying to get traction. It's when you go to an APC national conference, you really feel that connection with the members. And I know you can you can have that experience with the local chapter, but did that, well, when was your first health? It was Atlantic City. It was Atlantic City in 2017. And I had just opened the Ellenville New York chapter. So I had cards and I was running around to everybody asking them to like my Facebook page and you know do and I ended up with so many contacts from there. Wow, well, it was amazing. And how will this experience that you've had direct your evolution going forward, Tina? What do you see in your sites in the horizon? I feel like, I'm kind of, you know what, I'm not going to say that I'm content where I am right now, but as long as I'm doing this kind of work, I'm going to be really happy. But something that gives me that personal sort of really super warm feeling is being able to develop outside of myself. I can develop myself fine

but to be able to help somebody achieve greatness, whether it be with a job or write a perfect resume or create a webinar presentation or speak in front of a chapter for the first time, being able to help people put things on their resume that are ultimately going to make them so successful, that is the best. And when I get emails from people, when I told them just go for the job, let them decide whether you're qualified or not that they got the job, or I finally am speaking. I was selected to speak at the national, things like that. It's just, it gives me the warm and fuzzies. Because I think as leaders, whether it be with the AAPC, your job, or in your home, we need to develop, like with our kids, we're developing our children to be good humans and to be productive members of society. And I think as leaders, it's important for us to take the time to make sure that the person that is striving, you know, we're assisting them and helping them get to where they want to be. That's the best feeling. That's the best feeling. Well, you mentioned that you have the CPC and the CMA. Do you have any other certifications? I just got the CPB in October. Worst tests I ever took. That was the hardest. That was the hardest. Yes, because it was like a math, it was a lot of like I compared it to a math equation. There would be like six questions based on one thing. And if you messed up the beginning

the regular the rest of the questions would be wrong. It really difficult good job a APC so that's a professional bill or certification yeah yes it was top the coursework was fantastic got a 98 on it but but that exam was tough they're all tough but they're tough for a reason. I get it. I get it. I don't know what certification I'm going to go for next. I know it's going to be something. And for a silly reason, Colleen T. Natasio is going to be our NAB president. And I want her signature on one of my certificates. So I haven't, I haven't exactly figured it out, but I'm definitely gonna, I don't know, maybe whoever watches us let me know what should be next. That's right. That's right. It's my certification. Don't pick CIC. I don't want to think. Well, Gina, as we as we conclude, I, what would you have to say to anybody looking to take this step into health care and medical coding in the business side of health care? We're the, we're always going to be around. Health care is always going to be here. We're always going to, they're always unfortunately going to be sick people. So you'll always have a job. And I think it's just very, very important to have realistic expectations on becoming certified, what the next steps are. And if you utilize a network and become active, and it's't take a lot of time to become active, it's going to allow many, many more doors to open. Awesome, great. Thank you so much. Now, Gina, would you just conclude and just give us a I am AAPC. I am AAPC. I am AAPC. Beautiful. All right, thanks, Gina

Gina, thanks for your time and thanks for everybody for watching and we will see you next time. Thanks Alex. Bye everybody.

Welcome to another edition of AAPC starting points where we like to look into the early journeys of AAPC members and see how they got their first physicians as a medical coder. Today I have with us Megan Davis. Did they say your last name right, Megan? Chavis. All right. Well, Megan, thanks for joining us today. First, just to start off your journey, how did you choose the path of becoming a medical coder? Tell us a little bit about what led you down this road. Well, prior to doing medical coding, I worked in a lot of the factories in my local town doing like the seasonal work. And then, you know, after seasonal work, they kind of lay off. And so it wasn't really a steady income. And I have a five-year-old son, well, he's five now, but at the time he was only like one year's old. So I was trying to create a steady income so that, you know, I could send him to like private school and just have a better upbringing than I had. So I was trying to set that stage. And I remember my neighbor saying something about medical coding. And, you know, he's old school, so he's seen it in the paper. And so I got, he told me about that a while ago. And then when I was thinking about, well, where am I going to take my career now? Because, you know, I don't want to keep working in these factories because they're really not going anywhere. So I looked into medical coding and I actually went to career stuff and not through AAPC for my medical coding schooling. And I started that in February 2019, and I finished it July 2019

and then I sat for the CPC in August 2019. And then, you know, so August, so two months later, I obtained my first job in medical coding and diagnostic radiology. So it was October 2019 that I had my first coding job. Wow. And I've heard, I've watched these webinars and I hear you say it's called cold calling, like when you don't really know anybody at the place. So yeah, so I didn't know any coders. I didn't know anybody at my local hospital. So I was just coming in from nowhere. And so, you know, a lot of times, so right now, I am a radiology coding educator on a national level. So I give education to coders, providers, practice directors, performance managers. So anybody that wants to know anything about coding as it relates to diagnostic or interventional radiology, I give that education for them. So I'll create documents and I'll take those documents and I'll turn them in the PowerPoint slides and I'll present that to the providers so that they're aware of how the coding reimbursement and their services come into play so they can understand what's going on. And so I look to a lot of our primary sources, so like the American Medical Association, the CPQB book and the guidelines, and then the ICD 10CM, since I do outpatient or professional coding. I don't really do like the facility coding, so that's more of the hospital reimbursement. So yeah, so that's where I'm at right now. Well, your career in this in the short four years has evolved and taking a path that you may not have thought that it would, you know

you know, because you went into this to be a coder, but you're still, you still have your hands in that, but as an educator. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know, I think it's really cool, you know, I wanted to share my story so that other coders, I know a lot of times, like when was coming into coding I was kind of really discouraged because you know I didn't know anybody in coding and you hear all these stories of oh I got my CBCA and you know I can't get a job well a lot of times and this isn't all the time but I see that your mindset plays a lot into getting into this career field because or anything at all really so like if you just tell yourself you know like I'm going to go into this interview and I'm gonna do the best that I can and you know it might not turn out that you get the job but at least you knowthat you put your best foot forward. And that's what I tell coders all the time because they say, oh, how did you get to where you are today? And you know, and I work on it myself every day, like my mindset. So that's what I say would be the best thing is like your confidence and your mindset and it's a continuous progress that you have to do in order to get to like a positive mindset every day because you know stressors in life come up and we just have to deal with those. Yeah. But yeah. Well, I'm curious. Let's pull back the layers of you cold calling and that whole journey. So you receive your CPCA

you passed the exam. And did you just call cold call coders in your area based on who you found on LinkedIn or did you just call coding departments directly? Tell us about that a little bit more. Well, I didn't actually make any phone calls, but I did put my application into all of the local hospitals. So I live in Springfield, South Carolina. So we're kind of in the middle of Augusta, Georgia and Columbia, South Carolina. That is like the major cities that's in my area. So I put in applications to like all of the hospitals, and actually only one of them called me which was in Augusta, Georgia. And so I went in, we had to do the pre-test and I'll say that when I would in there to do that pre-test I was like, I didn't even know what I was doing. So I was like, they gave you like an hour and I think it was 15 questions. And so I'm using the coding books. And you know, I was familiar with using the coding book because, you know, I passed my certification. But they were giving me like real life examples and asking me like where was or what is place of service like 11 and I was like where do you find that at so when I left that session I went online and I started researching like where is that and so it's actually the first page of CPT book that has your place and service codes on it. So yes, I took my free test, I passed it, and then they called me back for my interview. And I was so nervous. Like

I wasn't working at the time. I was just to stay at home mom because I got out of the factories. It wasn't seasonal time during this time. So I was just staying at home with my son. And so when I went in and I had my interview, it was a panel of like five people and I had never been to like a panel interview before. So I was like super nervous. And I went there. But the week prior to my interview, I was like, you know, how can I make myself stand out? And my current fiance, but he was my boyfriend at the time. He was like, he thought I was crazy. So I went online and I did a lot of research and I themed that, you know, IT people create these portfolios and I couldn't find a whole lot of information on like, what does a portfolio look like in the coding realm? So I kind of took what I learned from the IT perspective and I created my own like portfolio and I put it into a binder and then I showed up at the interview with my portfolio and I was like, how am I going to present this? So like, there was all kinds of things on the internet. Like, you know, you just stand up and you start presenting your portfolio. And I was like, I don't know if I wanted to do that. So they started asking me the questions of the interview. And then I kind of incorporated my portfolio. And once they started looking at it, they started passing it around the room. And everybody was just like, oh, wow, this is great. You know. So what a portfolio really is

it's just taking your resume and kind of making it into a visual. So I took my entire resume and turned it into like a visual portfolio that I took in a binder to my interview with me. And I left the interview and by the time I got in my car, I had an email that you know I had the job. Wow. So and you know I got really close with my manager who hired me and I kind of asked her just so I could have like a little bit of history if I ever talked about this story again and she had told me I you know, what was it that made me stand out as a candidate when I was interviewing with you? And she was like, you know, you came in, you had the confidence, you had the eagerness to get into the field, to want to, you know, go really far. She said, you know, I could see you going really far with your career. And she said, you know, the portfolio shows that you had organizational skills. You knew how to use the computer. Because like, I didn't have any medical coding experience. Or health care experience, right? No, nothing. Yeah, no health care experience. So my prior background, like I said, was just, you know, like the factory working. And I did work, it was taking care of the elderly a little bit. I only lasted there for like maybe four months because I kind of seemed that I wasn't the type for direct patient care. So I kind of wanted to be indirect patient care. So that's the only health care I kind of had, which was maybe like four months. So, so yes, I didn't have any medical, like, that round at all. But you know, I took what I had, which was a lot of

I had the ability to research, I had organizational skills, and I kind of just presented that, you know, because I was proud of what I did have and I could incorporate that into medical coding. What does a visual look like for, because I know there are many watching who are coming from all sorts of backgrounds and for factory worker, how do you present that in a portfolio? What kind of things did you show, Megan? Well, so I just took my, I'll just focus on like my experience. So I took my work experience and there was this slide in PowerPoint where you could like outline your places of work. So I took and put the date and then I put the name of the company that I was at and then trying to get rid of a lot of the words because you know portfolio should be you should look at it, understand it and go to the next page. So I put the date, the company name, and then I got a picture offline and put it into the little bubble. I mean I can send you a snippet after this if you can incorporate that somewhere of like the experience slide that I had. Okay, all right, but yeah, so I just kind of took my entire resume and tried to figure out how do I make this visual? So I'm an artsy person so I have that going for me. I think that's how I got into this educational role. So yeah, but yeah, that's kind of what I did. Tell me about your resume because and your application because you've talked about setting yourself apart in the interview

but you must you may have done something unique on your applications or resume Before you to even get that call to go in for that pre-assessment test. Did you do you feel like you did anything unique or set your herself apart in that regard Megan? Yeah, so I did learn which I didn't know this before but my boyfriend. He's my fiance now, he had told me, he goes, you know, they have these computers that go through and they analyze your application and your resume and, you know, they'll throw it out if you don't have those specific keywords. So I actually dissected the job post and I started putting keywords in there. So like a lot of the keywords are just you know like CPC, CPT, ICD 10C, C.M. You can put all of those keywords in your skills area because you do have those skills from coding school and CareerStep actually gave us a sample resume so I incorporated some of the keywords from what I learned in school and I put that into my education session or education section and so yeah so I every job post is different. So you want to read it entirely and just pick out the keywords that you start to see a lot within the job post and then put that into your resume and it should bypass, you know, the computer when it goes through and analyzes your resume. But I will say you don't want to put stuff on your resume that you aren't familiar with, so don't just put that on there because it's showing up a bunch on the job post. Yeah

so make sure it's tailored to what you do know. I will say that. I love that because I think many may be sending out resumes. They have their one resume and just sending out to every, sending the same one out to many different places without maybe customizing it to what they are looking for. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, you would want to customize it because you know every company is creating their own job post. It's kind of the same, but not really, and you do want to, you know, dissect the job post to make sure that you're a good fit for that position as well. Yes. Yes. All right. Well, so you get this job as a coder. They put their faith in you and it works out. Great. It sounds like. So how long were you in that first role for, Megan? I was in that role for about a year and maybe four months and then I started getting intrigued by interventional radiology. So interventional radiology is a subspecialty of diagnostic radiology. And we only had one interventional radiology coder at the time. So, you know, there was only one position, but I was still intrigued to learn that skill because I knew it was a step up from where I was at. And you know, I'm the type of person that wants to just keep continuously growing over my entire life. So I took it upon myself to self-study a interventional radiology coding course. So Stacy book, some people might know her. She created the interventional radiology book and she has a course also, but I took and bought her book and I self-studied it

which was not really the norm that most people do. Like they really went just getting the book and self-study it. A lot of people would go through her course to learn how to do interventional radiology coding. So I didn't have the money at the time, which is why I didn't do the course, but I was like, you know, this is where I'm at, this is what I can do to get to my goal, so that's what I did. And it took me about five months to get through her book and I'm telling you her book is about like maybe this thick. So I was studying every day when I got off of work and I had my son here when I got off of work, he's running through the half of the time making a bunch of noise and I'm over here trying to focus and I used to be the type of person that needed complete silence when I was studying something but you know being a mom eventually get that out of your head and you just do what you could do. Yeah. So yes, I did, I self-studied interventional radiology for about five months and then I sat for the CIRCC through AAPC and I believe it was August 2021. Yeah, and I passed first time. Nice. So, and let me tell you, that is a hard exam. Every single question is like paragraphs of words. And so, it's just like, you know, a couple of sentences, you pick out your choice, kind of like the CPC. This is like paragraph you have to read and answer questions. So yeah, so that was 2021. And then, so I got certified interventional radiology. Our coder who was doing interventional radiology, she actually took another position, which opened that position for me

and I applied for that one, and I got into interventional radiology coding at my local hospital. But you know, at the time, this was all during COVID, so we were all working from home. And you know, mentioning that in October 2019, I had only worked in the office for about four months, and they sent us home. And I've been working from home since then. Wow. So I kind of got in there at the right time. Yeah, yeah. Well, how has the career been for you? Is it what you thought it would be? Are you, I mean, I guess you love it, enjoy it? Do you enjoy the different possibilities that you can, different paths that you can take? Yeah, so I love coding, like I love medical coding and I'm kind of moving more towards like education now, so not more so like production coding, but I do love the possibility. Like we have the possibility to go as far as we want to. You know, I mean, everybody has their own path and you could take it as far as you want to. And you know, I've kind of hit the gas pedal for the last four years. So I'm kind of, I'm taking a step back a little bit and focusing more on like me and then, you know, my, I still have goals in medical coding and, but I'm still focusing on me because like in the four years

I kind of didn't really on me too much so now I'm kind of trying to find that balance because I feel like I'm not a good place right now but I do want to take my career to the next step as far as education. So I did apply for the teacher assistant through AAPC so I am waiting here back from that. That's something I want to do part-time with my current job. And I might do the instructor exam, but I have to wait so I get to my five-year mark for that. And eventually, you know, and this is way down the line, but I kind of do want to branch out on my own and start helping the coders that are coming up as far as like CPC. And that I do want to get a little bit, I want to start teaching the interventional radiology because that's like a hot topic right now. You know, they need interventional radiology coders because that is a specialty and we need coders for that. So you have two certifications now? Well, I just got my CDEO. It was September 2022. So that was my last one. I got three. I got my CPC. I got my CIRCC and then I have my C. D. O. So it was like it was like 2019. I got my CIRCC and then I have my CDEO. So it was like, it was like 2019 I got my CPC and then I waited an entire year 2021 I got my CERC and then 202 I got my CDEO and now I'm kind of taking a break from certification. Well, four years in the industry and you basically earned nearly one new certification a year. Yeah. So that's a lot. You've been you've been working hard. Yeah. Hey

I'm curious. Megan. Has medical coding been able to provide and give your family what you had hoped? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh-huh. Um, so I am in a good, well, I'm salary now since I've taken on this educational role, but I am where I expected to be at. And I think obtaining my specialty certification, like my CERT really put me at a good place as far as my income goes. And you know, I still see areas where my income can improve, but since I work from home, when I actually sit down and think about it, I save a lot of money because my job, well, each of my jobs, my first job at my local hospital and then my current job, they are very flexible with my schedule, so I don't have to put my son in daycare because I have a schedule where I could get up early enough and go to work and then get off of work and then I have the afternoon off of work. So I save money from daycare and I work from home, so I save time. I don't have to drive into the office. My son, he's actually had some field trips recently and my job has been very flexible with that. So I've been able to take the day off and then make up that time during the week So I don't have to actually use any PTO, but I could if I wanted to so that's a little bit of flexibility I try not to use my PTO too much because you know We do have a lot of work. We have to get done. So I just like to make that time up when I can. Yes. But yeah, but yeah, um, you know

you know, I'm making more than I could have made just with a high school diploma. Do you do you feel like your additional certifications helped you earn more? Mm-hmm. Yeah, beyond CEDEO and CIRCC. Yep. And you know, I think the certifications actually put me in a place to say, hey, you know, I know my stuff because all throughout my career so far, I've kind of been looked upon as like a person new and upcoming. So even in my position now, I would say that it's not normal for a person with only maybe four years of coding experience to be in this position, but I have set myself up to be an expert in diagnostic and interventional radiology coding. So, and my certifications, they are an example of my knowledge in the field. Okay, that is so awesome and it's great to hear. I mean, you did it and I've sure you had a lot of those nerves that new students and newly certified members have, trying to find that first job and even passing the exam. But Megan, you know that starting points is about inspiring those new coders who are searching for that first position. What final words would you give them? How would you help inspire them? I would just say, you know, go through your course and a lot of students I see are trying to memorize like different questions and answers. And when I was coming up in the coding, I'm not a person of memorization at all. So I like the applied knowledge. So I feel if you know how to use your ICD 10 CM book, like the index, and get to those unique, or you can get to those diseases, like you can index the diseases

you will be fine on the CPC. I'll say when I went into the CPC exam, I really didn't know how to use my CPT book. Like I didn't know how to use the index of the CPT book and I still don't know how to use that today, but when you get into the field, you're not indexing in the CPT book. You have specific codes that are for your specialty. So when you go to take the CPC exam, the CPT codes, you know, they're provided. And once you read everything, you'll be able to get to the answer. So I say, you know, focus on your ICD 10CM book and learn how to use that index. Don't try to memorize questions or answers because you want to set yourself up not just to pass the CPC exam, but to go into that interview and let the interviewers know that you know what you're doing. So I would say take a more applied knowledge approach and not so much a memorization approach. Awesome, awesome. Megan, thank you so much for sharing your story. And we will need to reconnect with you down the road and see where your career continues to evolve. Okay, all right, thank you for having me. You're welcome. Thanks, Megan. All right, bye bye.