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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that we might not have intended
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:42.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that some of the concerns about AGI safety come.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:43.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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You give it some goal that seems completely harmless.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:47.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And then before you realize it,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:50.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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it's also trying to do these other things
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:53.360
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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which you didn't want it to do.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:55.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And it's maybe smarter than us.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:56.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So it's fascinating.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:59.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And let me pause just because I am in a very kind
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:01.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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of human centric way, see fear of death
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:05.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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as a valuable motivator.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:08.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So you don't think, you think that's an artifact
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:11.840
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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of evolution, so that's the kind of mind space
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:16.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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evolution created that we're sort of almost obsessed
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:19.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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about self preservation, some kind of genetic flow.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:22.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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You don't think that's necessary to be afraid of death.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:24.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So not just a kind of sub goal of self preservation
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:29.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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just so you can keep doing the thing,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:32.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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but more fundamentally sort of have the finite thing
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:34.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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like this ends for you at some point.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:38.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Interesting.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:43.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Do I think it's necessary for what precisely?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:44.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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For intelligence, but also for consciousness.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:47.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So for those, for both, do you think really
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:50.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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like a finite death and the fear of it is important?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:55.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So before I can answer, before we can agree
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:23:59.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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on whether it's necessary for intelligence
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:05.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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or for consciousness, we should be clear
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:06.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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on how we define those two words.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:08.360
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Cause a lot of really smart people define them
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:09.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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in very different ways.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:11.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I was on this panel with AI experts
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:13.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and they couldn't agree on how to define intelligence even.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:17.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So I define intelligence simply
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:20.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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as the ability to accomplish complex goals.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:22.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I like your broad definition, because again
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:25.640
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I don't want to be a carbon chauvinist.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:27.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Right.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:29.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And in that case, no, certainly
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:30.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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it doesn't require fear of death.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:34.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I would say alpha go, alpha zero is quite intelligent.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:36.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I don't think alpha zero has any fear of being turned off
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:40.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because it doesn't understand the concept of it even.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:43.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And similarly consciousness.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:46.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I mean, you could certainly imagine very simple
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:48.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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kind of experience.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:52.240
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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If certain plants have any kind of experience
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:53.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I don't think they're very afraid of dying
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:57.200
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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or there's nothing they can do about it anyway much.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:24:58.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So there wasn't that much value in, but more seriously
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:00.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I think if you ask, not just about being conscious
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:04.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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but maybe having what you would, we might call
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:09.200
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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an exciting life where you feel passion
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:14.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and really appreciate the things.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:16.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Maybe there somehow, maybe there perhaps it does help
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:21.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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having a backdrop that, Hey, it's finite.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:24.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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No, let's make the most of this, let's live to the fullest.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:27.880
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So if you knew you were going to live forever
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:31.200
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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do you think you would change your?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:34.880
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Yeah, I mean, in some perspective
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:37.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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it would be an incredibly boring life living forever.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:39.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So in the sort of loose subjective terms that you said
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:43.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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of something exciting and something in this
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:47.360
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that other humans would understand, I think is, yeah
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:50.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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it seems that the finiteness of it is important.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:53.240
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Well, the good news I have for you then is
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:57.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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based on what we understand about cosmology
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:25:59.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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everything is in our universe is probably
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:02.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
ultimately probably finite, although.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:05.120
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Big crunch or big, what's the, the infinite expansion.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:07.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Yeah, we could have a big chill or a big crunch
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:11.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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or a big rip or that's the big snap or death bubbles.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:13.840
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
All of them are more than a billion years away.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:18.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
So we should, we certainly have vastly more time
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:20.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
than our ancestors thought, but there is still
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:24.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
it's still pretty hard to squeeze in an infinite number
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:29.160
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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of compute cycles, even though there are some loopholes
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:32.360
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that just might be possible.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:36.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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But I think, you know, some people like to say
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:37.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that you should live as if you're about to
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:41.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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you're going to die in five years or so.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:44.760
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And that's sort of optimal.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:46.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Maybe it's a good assumption.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:47.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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We should build our civilization as if it's all finite
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:50.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to be on the safe side.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:54.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Right, exactly.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:55.680
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
So you mentioned defining intelligence
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:56.960
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
as the ability to solve complex goals.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:26:59.720
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Where would you draw a line or how would you try
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:02.960
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to define human level intelligence
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:05.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
and superhuman level intelligence?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:08.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Where is consciousness part of that definition?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:10.680
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
No, consciousness does not come into this definition.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:13.280
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
So, so I think of intelligence as it's a spectrum
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:16.640
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
but there are very many different kinds of goals
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:20.280
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
you can have.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:21.960
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
You can have a goal to be a good chess player
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:22.800
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
a good goal player, a good car driver, a good investor
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:24.000
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
good poet, et cetera.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:28.520
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
So intelligence that by its very nature
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:27:31.160
|
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