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so you you feel like you get more stuff done on weekends. When Don't drink, but maybe you don't feel like you can relax as well. | 4crq
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Yeah, I mean, I, whenever I'm drinking, I know that I'm devoting time to, to not doing other things. So I try and make it so that I don't allow myself to pile on so much work. So I try and, like get work done before, but I know that drinking gets in the way of productivity. So I try and minimize that as much as possible. | 6cd
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You're trying to be responsible and get your stuff done. Yeah. Knowing that the drinking is gonna make it harder. Yeah. Okay. And it sounds like are you getting everything done or some stuff sort of slipping when you drink? | 4crq
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What are the things you enjoy about the drinking? | 1irq
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Just the way that it, it's sort of like liberates you and makes you it makes you feel like a more confident, more energetic person that you don't feel like yourself you feel like a different version of yourself. And it's something that you it, it's just empowering to a degree. | 0id
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Okay. So you feel liberated or kind of more confident in some ways? Yeah? Okay, are there any not so good things about drinking. | 1irq
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Um, whenever I drink too much, I sort of lose control of myself and I I just like the aftermath of whenever I drank too much or whenever my friends mixed drinks and it just has a harmful effect on my body. That's probably one of the major drawbacks that I had from drinking. | 0id
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What kinds of things happen? | 1irq
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I mainly when when I puke or it's just the the feeling that I get in my stomach, if I drink too much is just very overwhelming. | 0id
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Like you notice in your body, how much do you think is the most you've ever drank in one time? | 1irq
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Wow, I would say probably | 0id
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at a friend, one of my friends had a birthday party recently. And he wanted to let loose was it was just the all the guys were together and they had a couple of friends over and it just turned into one big party and I just I lost it. I drank way too much I would say like probably a bottle or two and just some beers along the way. I got to a point where I lost count | 0id
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that was out of the ordinary For you to discount, what's a more typical amount that you drink? | 1irq
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Well, kind of along those lines Looking ahead, you know, five years from now, what do you see as a goal for yourself | 3gc
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in terms of career wise, in terms | 3gc
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of what do you think you'll be doing in five years, | 11orq
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and I would love to be. | 10od
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I would love to travel, I would love to see the world for what it is. And I've always seen pictures and videos of how the world is, but I've never really experienced that, like, I've always wanted to travel to Europe or, or China or something or someplace like that. So I can really experience the world | 10od
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that we live in. | 10od
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Okay. So just to kind of summarize what you've told me so far, you're you're drinking pretty regularly, but you are trying to limit yourself you feel like three drinks maybe is probably the maximum that you can drink before you're having some of these negative consequences. And you feel better if you limit yourself to three or less, | 4crq
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yeah, feel more in control | 6cd
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Maybe now that I know, my limits to an extent, I kind of don't want to push it. So, so much. Now that I know what I can do and where I can go. I would like to mitigate that as much as possible. I just want to I want to have fun being me. But I don't want me to be influenced by alcohol. So much. Like I want to live the sober life to an extent, but I know that alcohol is just gonna tamper with it. | 10od
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So for right now It feels like a reasonable goal for you would be to sort of limit your drinking and make sure you're, you're stopping three, for example, or maybe even limiting the number of times that you're drinking. | 3gc
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Yeah. And like not, like not drinking, like in the mornings or just just strictly for social purposes like not just to not have it around, like, I don't want to have it like in my fridge, if my parents have it. I don't want to I don't want to have to deal with it. | 3gc
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benefits and | 3gc
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sticking to those limits? | 1irq
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I guess I could definitely be, I could live a more fulfilled life to an extent like I could possibly be more productive, more efficient in my work and where I can possibly be in the next few years of my life. And I think that by not drinking, I will definitely have a better effect on my life. | 0id
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Thank you very much. | 2gt
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So we're here today to talk about CBT and your experiences of it. How did you feel initially about the thought of going for CBT | 3gc
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my clinical psychologist has told me that I needed to see someone. I thought I didn't need to see someone because there was nothing wrong with me. I just had a heart disease. And I, my heart disease had got so severe and I was just tired and there was no one that could make it better. By listening to me or talking to me, the only thing I thought that could heal me was heart surgery. And when he suggested that I see someone, it didn't seem to make sense. But because I was so depressed, so far gone, I, my husband through my husband, I thought I try and just take a chance and just listen to someone or let someone Listen to me, because I wasn't sure what it entailed. I've never been to a clinical psychologist before. So to me as a clinical psychologist was a shrink, you must have had something seriously wrong with your brain that you needed to see a clinical psychologist, and I didn't need to see one. But when I did Mita and I realized that not being able to make up my mind by Waiting for surgery for heart surgery. I'm putting my name down on the list. I needed someone to help be accepted in order to get surgery done, because I didn't want to get surgery done and she listened to me and to the way I felt and what was making me whoa, hold back on surgery and what made me feel the way I did. And funnily enough, as a woman, you tend to feel that you can cry on someone else's shoulder. But for the first time, just letting my emotions out to her. She helped me cry and by me speaking to her, it helped me see myself from the inside. If that makes sense. I then I began to understand why I had to get heart surgery done wasn't because I was tired but I had my family and everyone that went through the road with me of suffering was mad so I needed to get it done. And then eventually I did put my name down on the list not knowing it would be done so quick because asked was just supposed to take me six to eight months to get heart surgery done. But when I started seeing my clinical psychology, I understood it, I put my name down and I got my surgery done in 30 days time. So it sounds like part of the clinical psychologists role with you is to help you to make your decision around whether to get surgery or not. Yes. But you also said that you were quite depressed at the time was the CBT helpful for your depression as well, it helped because then, instead of crying and holding things back emotionally, it helped me let things out. And by letting things out, it helped me understand what I was feeling because most of the time we bottle things up, we never let them out or we never talk to each other, or other people. So when we bottle stuff up, it makes it harder for us to figure out ways to solve problems. Sometimes it can be a little problem and we turn it into a big problem because we just don't communicate with other people or talk things over to make it easier to understand. And she helped me understand and I saw her before surgery right through my heart surgery and after heart surgery, and she helped me. By then by the time I started with heart surgery, I'd lost myself confidence. I was so depressed, I was so withdrawn. But after I had heart surgery, and I carried on seeing her, she helped me gain my confidence back again. She helped me gain my trust again, she helped me see that there was something worth loving for again. And a lot of times when I think of the things that are needed for me, it brings tears to my eyes and makes my heart swell up because I didn't know another person could do that for you. By just listening to you, you know, like when we go to mom when you got a problem and you think no one can understand, but my mom can because she knows what I'm coming from. But it's not to say that clinical psychologists are like that. But it's just the way they listen to you. Just having that someone that can listen to you and just be there and be still be quiet and let you express yourself. That's how and help you find out what problems are that you've got and help you solve those problems if they can. | 0id
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whether any drawbacks to going for CBT | 1irq
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in the beginning, I didn't. I didn't have any drawbacks going for CBT because I was so severely depressed, I needed it. And I found that they were people all around that would help me so there was nothing. The only thing that was stopping me was me. | 0id
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Sounds like it was a good experience for us. If you go Any advice that you would want to offer anyone who is thinking now about going for CBT? | 1irq
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Yes. Don't look at the word CBT. But look at the person behind it. Because sometimes we see big words and we don't understand the meaning of those words. And we assume, but sometimes when we look behind the word, like clinical psychologists, I would have said a shrink and I would never have thought myself going to one because they deal with mental people. But it's not that it's, you can have suffered from depression. You can suffer from any kind of illness and it's so good to go to a clinical psychologist when you need them. Because one, sooner or later in our lives, we will need one and most people when you know like when you find younger people that nowadays, lots of young people are going under so much stress in life. If you haven't got a parent or a friend, and you're suffering from depression, those are the right people to speak to because It's good to be able to have someone in your life that you can talk to. Because I know there's no one in my family that I can talk to. I always think my husband would never understand me. My kids would never understand me. When I go to the doctor, he never has that enough time for me. But with a clinical psychologist, they make that time for you. And they listen to you, you've got you've got that time with them to express yourself and you still got follow ups, they can check on you and make sure everything's right. If you not, everything's not alright. They can always check and find ways and means to help you. get you in touch with other people that can help you or get in touch with other people that are in the same. Having the suffering from the same conditions as you and you can swap ideas with each other to find and live a happier life. | 0id
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Alright, so let's see if we could let's rank those two things. Right so one is everyone's judging me how I was and the other is a poor grade. Which one is larger fear for you? | 1irq
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I would say maybe like judging. | 0id
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Okay, so the grades a concern. | 4crq
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Yeah but I figured I could do better on the subsequent one but when people are have this opinion of you I feel like that doesn't go away as quickly | 6cd
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What would it mean? If they they thought you were anxious during that presentation? | 4crq
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I guess I worried that they would think I'm anxious because I don't know what I'm doing or I don't belong there. | 6cd
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So if they notice your anxiety, then they think you don't belong in that level | 4crq
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Yeah. Like, I don't deserve to be in that program. | 6cd
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If they don't recognize those symptoms, they wouldn't think that, do they? | 4crq
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they might write that maybe they think that's why I'm anxious or that's why I'm not doing well. | 6cd
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Well, how do you feel about your abilities and status in the programming room? | 11orq
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I think you know, typically, I'm one of the top students in my program, and I've seen two Get the concepts pretty well. It's just when I have to demonstrate those concepts or demonstrate via, like a presentation or something, that I'm worried that, you know, maybe I'm an imposter or something, but so I start to question myself. But I think in general that, you know, I'm a pretty good student before this. And I'm doing pretty well in the program. | 10od
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So you're a good student, you recognize that you have this one area where you don't feel like you do a great job. That's presentations. In terms of grade, you really only had one bad presentation. But grades aside, you're anxious. And you're worried your classmates are gonna pick up on them. | 4crq
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Yeah, exactly. | 6cd
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Okay. So if they thought you were us were imposter. So if they thought you were imposter to say that that was something they actually believe because of what's been happening. What would that mean? What would it mean to your classmates that you were an imposter? | 1irq
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I don't know. Maybe I am. Maybe I don't deserve to be there. | 0id
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You don't deserve to be there. | 4crq
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like maybe I shouldn't be in this program. I think they should just drop out. | 6cd
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So if they believe you're an imposter based on these physical symptoms, like anxiety and mood that means to you anyway, that that means you shouldn't be on there. | 4crq
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Yeah. | 8op
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What's it feel like to say that | 11orq
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Depressing I feel like I've worked really hard. You know, to get through atleast halfway through my program. And it really hurts to think that that will be true. | 10od
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Just think this whole time you really been given faking Do you really belong there?. So I'd like to move a little bit into evaluating evidence. So in this kind of therapy, we like to look at what, you know, what we're feeling and what we're thinking, and what's we can see what's observable around us. And, you know, that becomes evidence and then we analyze it, evaluate it, okay. You're worried at some level. You're worried that you don't deserve to be where you are right now. Yeah. That you're not good enough. To be a student in this program, yeah, programming. What evidence supports that belief that you're not good enough? | 0id
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Now that I'm thinking about it here, I mean, there's not a ton to support. But in on that day, I can think of all sorts of, you know, things to tell myself | 0id
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what's going on that day. | 1irq
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So maybe like I'm not prepared or because I'm messing up on the presentation that I'm going to get a bad grade and you know, if I can't speak in front of people, how am I going to speak in front of kids as a teacher, you know, one day that it will translate to something else. I can't get past this. | 0id
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So even if you survived the program, somehow you might be bad at your job | 4crq
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yeah | 8op
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any other evidence that points toward you being imposter? | 1irq
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Besides My bad grade? Not a whole lot. | 0id
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Yeah. Which are really intense like panic almost in the moment. | 8op
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Yeah, definitely. | 8op
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But in the bright light of scrutiny, there are a lot of facts to support the worst case, which is you don't deserve it. How about evidence that refutes that you're not good enough? | 0id
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I would say that, you know, I was accepted into the program. Like there's kind of like, a pretty rigorous sort of testing and stuff, which I passed, to get interviews and such to get into the program. So I did that. Like I said, I'm a pretty good student, all considering, you know, before this kind of flick was happening. | 0id
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Okay, so you've got through a rigorous process to become a student You're doing well. You mentioned before, just the one bad grade right? Okay, so if you have friends in this program, right, if one of them came to you with this, this balance of, you know, one bad grade and some anxiety, yeah, versus passing, you know, rigorous standards and doing well, otherwise, what advice would you give them? | 0id
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I mean, now that you're kind of like talking about it, like, you know, this or that sort of thing. It makes sense. I would probably say that, well, you seem to be doing pretty well so far. You know, that anyone evaluating would look at all of the cumulative how you're doing your performance, rather than that one grade | 0id
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would you feel comfortable giving advice to yourself? | 11orq
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I think I tried to sometimes, but my anxiety symptoms kind of like really, like you were saying, your anxiety tells you sort of I think I can think that but I think my anxiety symptoms are such in the moment that it's really hard. You know, and I'm replaying what happened before in my head anticipation predicting will happen again. | 10od
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So, so let's look at the the thought and the feeling. If you had to rate the percent that you believed this thought, this belief that you are not good enough to be in the program, like right now right now, yeah, but here with me. How much of your mind believes that that's true? | 11orq
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I would say like, you know, a two or three like not very, I don't believe it very much right now because You know, I'm not presenting and it's just you and I not like a group full of people. So that pressure is not there here. | 10od
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So right now you're really not buying the idea that you're not good enough. | 4crq
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Yeah, that is correct | 8op
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So now let's move to let's say right in the near the end of presentation when that anxiety is there, and the classmates that could be looking at you, it could be negatively evaluating you because you're worried about how much do you believe that thought then? | 1irq
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I don't feel really confident. In that moment. It feels very real. Like, like any moment, they're gonna kick me out. Like, I'm just not doing well. I'm stuffing. | 0id
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Yeah. really intense. So would you think that you were a more accurate evaluator of what's true or not. Now, or when you're in that state of anxiety, | 1irq
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definitely now that anxiety that, you know, heart rate and sweating is not there. | 0id
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So this evaluation, the percent that you believe that true, this evaluation is more accurate? | 1irq
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Yes, I think so. | 8op
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And how much time in any given day would you spend kind of in a mood right now, or you can evaluate accurately? | 1irq
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I would say, you know, when I'm not at risk of presenting, like, I feel like I spend the majority of my time, like, it's not something I worry about all the time, just leading up to and then mostly that day, | 0id
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okay. So the, so you're able to evaluate the way you are now, the vast majority of the time, right? There's a limited amount of time when you're not when there's A lot of motions going through, right? And at those times, you're maybe a little less reliable, | 4crq
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right. Like my judgment is clouded. | 8op
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However, in that moment you still, those thoughts are strong, right? | 5yq
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Yes, very troubling. | 8op
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Even though it's a small percentage, it's intense. And you kind of carry that around a little bit. | 4crq
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Yeah. Exactly. | 8op
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So I can see why this is frustrating for you. | 0id
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Okay, Charles, let's take a look at your homework from last week the activity schedule. | 0id
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Not very much on it. | 0id
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I'll take a look at it and see, well, you did complete most of it. | 0id
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I don't see the point. And I mean, how do you master watching TV or eating a meal? I, if I had tried to use chopsticks, I suppose it would have some mastery involved in but I, I didn't mess with chopsticks, okay. Food was okay. Hmm. But not, not great. Okay. | 0id
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So it was tough. And I just want to be clear, though, Charles that this is very typical though for many people that we work with. It's very difficult to complete homework worksheets, because things happen, right? I don't feel that Well, sometimes things get in the way. There's things that just prevent me from doing that. So I think our job together is to try to figure out what are the sort of barriers that make these sort of things difficult. So what would you say what would be some barriers that made it difficult to Your mastery ratings. | 0id
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I don't enjoy anything. And I used to I used to enjoy it a lot of things. But I don't even I don't look forward to breakfast, particularly cup of coffee. The news is mostly bad and what if there is news? I mean, the paper doesn't carry much national news anymore. So, I mean, I have to eat, but I really don't see the point of a lot of things. | 0id
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Okay. Okay. Well, I think something that will be useful for both of us, Charles is to collaboratively work together and figure out how we can look at the perceived benefit of doing some of these things. versus the cons. So there's a worksheet that I have called a decisional balance worksheet. And it basically takes two separate decisions. One decision is to engage in activities, and there's some benefit to doing that. And then another decision would be to not engage in activities. There's benefit to that. But there's also cost to both of those decisions. So I think one objective way for you to look at this worksheet would be to determine what are the sort of things you could do and determine whether there's more benefit or cost to completing that? What do you think about that? | 0id
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Well, that would depend on the activity. I know but okay. I could, I could get in touch with somebody I could call a friend. Maybe try to meet somebody for lunch. | 0id
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Okay, that's a great idea. So what would be a benefit of calling a friend or meeting someone for lunch? | 1irq
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