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elmlang | general | that is a big problem in complex software as you run into huge files ("where did I put xy...?") and naming difficulties. Also you mix up abstractions in your mind which can be puzzling | 2019-01-30T08:03:57.421000 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Lynne> | 2019-01-30T08:04:02.421300 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | I don't really want to discuss abstraction, encapsulation and other stuff which may or may not be a universal concept. This is philosophy to very large extent. | 2019-01-30T08:06:59.423900 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | Elm architecture is simple and straightforward: you have a model, you update the model, you render the model | 2019-01-30T08:07:34.425500 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | <@Lynne> I don't think you should say "Elm doesn't do that" though. it does, it just works a little differently | 2019-01-30T08:07:35.425600 | Nana |
elmlang | general | <@Nana> I did not say that | 2019-01-30T08:07:53.426000 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | to be fair, he said in Elm "People just tend to call things differently" | 2019-01-30T08:08:23.426500 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> Then, if you have some business-related logic, you generally create a module with functions encapsulating this logic and modifying your model or part of it, returning new one | 2019-01-30T08:09:13.427900 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | but the abstraction problem remains: the tabs should always scroll into view when the user clicks on them, regardless of where (in which top-level program) they are used | 2019-01-30T08:09:54.429800 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Lynne> yeah that is basic knowledge, no? | 2019-01-30T08:10:28.431400 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | > Sergey Zubtsovskiy [1:41 PM]
> That's not how Elm works, so not possible
I think it's better to say "You do that by mapping the update function" or something | 2019-01-30T08:10:30.431500 | Nana |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> Disregarding all philosophical discussions, here's how you can achieve what you want in Elm: Define a Msg type for your component, then define an update function for those messages, then in your main function add a message with type of something like `MessageFromComponent ComponentMsg` and in the update function add `case MessageFromComponent msg -> Component.update msg state` and you're done, that's all of the plumbing you have to do | 2019-01-30T08:10:53.432100 | Dayna |
elmlang | general | that's not very elegant | 2019-01-30T08:11:30.432700 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | :disappointed: | 2019-01-30T08:11:31.433000 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> that's true, I just wanted to address your concern about abstraction of business and view logic | 2019-01-30T08:11:45.433900 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | so I have to handle these cases every time I use the component in a view | 2019-01-30T08:11:54.434400 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | No need, you can have a single case for all components | 2019-01-30T08:12:17.435200 | Dayna |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> yeah it's a bit fiddly to set up, but it still seems the simplest solution for a pure functional language | 2019-01-30T08:12:34.435700 | Nana |
elmlang | general | <@Nana> yeah | 2019-01-30T08:12:45.436200 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | If you just need a way to differentiate them, maybe make an opaque Id for each | 2019-01-30T08:13:00.436800 | Dayna |
elmlang | general | I think we have here a hot spot where FP and the DOM collide a little bit :confused: | 2019-01-30T08:13:10.437000 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | I hate it since I love Elm otherwise and I wish there was a more elegant solution | 2019-01-30T08:13:48.437800 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | Why is this solution not elegant? | 2019-01-30T08:14:24.439000 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | Well you do really mind adding 3 lines of boilerplate to your main file, if you really do then you're not going to like the rest of Elm either | 2019-01-30T08:14:26.439300 | Dayna |
elmlang | general | <@Dayna> I know Elm quite a bit by now and I can say for sure I love it | 2019-01-30T08:14:55.439800 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | It is just a way how single data flow is implemented. In React world there is Redux which does pretty much same thing. | 2019-01-30T08:15:26.440800 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | To be fair you would never do that in react + redux | 2019-01-30T08:15:42.441200 | Dayna |
elmlang | general | yep | 2019-01-30T08:15:51.441400 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | I programmed with React and Redux for 6 years and I know it inside and out | 2019-01-30T08:16:11.442300 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | but I guess I have to bite the bullet in this case. If I come across a better approach I'll tell you guys. | 2019-01-30T08:16:51.443300 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | Thank you for your helps! | 2019-01-30T08:16:57.443600 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | So in React+Redux you would just call the JS function? | 2019-01-30T08:17:16.444100 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | <@Myong> seriously? | 2019-01-30T08:17:21.444200 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | Even the most hardcore Elm-inspired redux people would probably call the js function before dispatching the action. There is no mechanism to treat the DOM API as a Task or side effect, you would have to do the wrapping yourself | 2019-01-30T08:19:04.445600 | Dayna |
elmlang | general | Yeah, I see, but anyway I mentioned Redux because it is generally built in a similar to Elm way. | 2019-01-30T08:20:39.446400 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | Of course, it is not the same, I only meant idea of single data flow | 2019-01-30T08:20:59.447200 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | Even in Elm applications are stateful because the DOM has so much state, things like scroll positions, forms, media queries | 2019-01-30T08:21:18.447500 | Dayna |
elmlang | general | Well, that's a web application after all. | 2019-01-30T08:22:50.448000 | Lynne |
elmlang | general | Maybe the `scrollIntoView` behav should even be in CSS :thinking_face: | 2019-01-30T08:27:42.448500 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | idk | 2019-01-30T08:28:23.449000 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | boundaries are blurring these days... | 2019-01-30T08:28:32.449400 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | like `:active { scroll-into-view: true }` or something | 2019-01-30T08:29:45.451200 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | If we had a purely functional web (everything is data and in the model) it would be absolutely amazing | 2019-01-30T08:29:53.451400 | Dayna |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> hmm those scrolling tabs in the example were pretty terrible though :grimacing: you have to click them one by one to inch the view to the right, unless you're on a phone or laptop where you have horizontal scrolling gestures I guess | 2019-01-30T08:31:21.452900 | Nana |
elmlang | general | <@Nana> you can use Shift+Mouse Wheel | 2019-01-30T08:31:52.453400 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | ^^ | 2019-01-30T08:31:53.453600 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | pretty intuitive imo | 2019-01-30T08:31:59.453800 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | but that's just me | 2019-01-30T08:32:04.454100 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | touch pad: swiping left/right should do the job | 2019-01-30T08:32:37.454800 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> considering I didn't know that, I doubt many users know about that :stuck_out_tongue: | 2019-01-30T08:32:48.455100 | Nana |
elmlang | general | :thinking_face: | 2019-01-30T08:32:55.455300 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | well, a couple of years ago I established an axiom for myself: If my mom can use it, anyone can use it | 2019-01-30T08:33:41.456700 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | I think it's intuitive if you're making a mobile-only app, but otherwise I think it's pretty bad | 2019-01-30T08:34:01.457100 | Nana |
elmlang | general | I'll show it to my mom over the weekend and get back in touch with you :blush: | 2019-01-30T08:34:16.457500 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> show it to her on a desktop computer then, not a phone | 2019-01-30T08:34:39.458100 | Nana |
elmlang | general | when she can use it, you should consider changing to another profession than programming, e.g. backend :wink: | 2019-01-30T08:35:24.458900 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | horizontal scrolling without scrollbars is highly unusual on the web | 2019-01-30T08:40:21.459500 | Nana |
elmlang | general | to me it looks like an oversight by the developer | 2019-01-30T08:40:49.459800 | Nana |
elmlang | general | but the developer is google | 2019-01-30T08:43:51.460100 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | What are you discussing? | 2019-01-30T08:44:50.460400 | Danika |
elmlang | general | material design scrollable tabs | 2019-01-30T08:45:38.460700 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Danika> the tabs at the bottom of this page <https://material-components.github.io/material-components-web-catalog/#/component/tabs> | 2019-01-30T08:46:02.461500 | Nana |
elmlang | general | <@Nana> you actually might be right! In the design guide lines they say that you should provide an indicator that you can scroll | 2019-01-30T08:46:08.461600 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <https://material.io/design/components/tabs.html#scrollable-tabs> | 2019-01-30T08:46:21.461800 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | but they don't show it in the development/web/ section! | 2019-01-30T08:46:43.462300 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | good catch actually :thinking_face: | 2019-01-30T08:46:51.462600 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | hmm | 2019-01-30T08:47:30.463000 | Danika |
elmlang | general | but for this you would need JavaScript and were back at the start of our discussion again | 2019-01-30T08:47:52.463800 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | I wasn't even paying attention and instinctively swiped to scroll. But that is horrible UX for desktop. | 2019-01-30T08:47:58.464000 | Danika |
elmlang | general | yeh | 2019-01-30T08:48:06.464200 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | agree | 2019-01-30T08:48:12.464500 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> told you :grin: | 2019-01-30T08:48:22.465000 | Nana |
elmlang | general | I think it's very obvious these design guidelines are geared towards mobile development though | 2019-01-30T08:48:28.465200 | Danika |
elmlang | general | <@Danika> both actually | 2019-01-30T08:48:42.465600 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | read on! | 2019-01-30T08:48:44.465800 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | 95% of the examples in the design spec are mobile layout | 2019-01-30T08:49:29.466300 | Danika |
elmlang | general | I'm not a huge fan of Material Design anyway, it's kind of weird to adopt another company's look and feel, unless you're specifically designing for Android | 2019-01-30T08:50:12.467000 | Nana |
elmlang | general | They addressed that with their refresh of Material that they launched, i want to say last year? It was never really fully intended to be cloned the way it was, and they've tried to make that clearer but not really succeeded | 2019-01-30T08:51:17.468700 | Danika |
elmlang | general | Also if you scroll down to the very very bottom and look at the actual design spec. | 2019-01-30T08:51:39.469300 | Danika |
elmlang | general | None | 2019-01-30T08:51:45.469400 | Danika |
elmlang | general | It's very obvious this spec is for mobile and desktop is like "yeah you can make it look like that for desktop too." | 2019-01-30T08:51:59.470000 | Danika |
elmlang | general | None | 2019-01-30T08:53:32.470100 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | I don’t think the design intention here is that you scroll. You click the indicator | 2019-01-30T08:55:09.472100 | Danika |
elmlang | general | I don’t think this is particularly relevant discussion for <#C0CJ3SBBM|general> though ^^ | 2019-01-30T08:55:40.473200 | Danika |
elmlang | general | it is not possible to check in Elm if scrollWidth > clientWidth, yes? | 2019-01-30T08:56:05.473900 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | only with js interop | 2019-01-30T08:56:48.475100 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | and ports | 2019-01-30T08:56:53.475400 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | it's better with the indicator/scroll button, but even that looks pretty annoying to use. I'd only use it if I knew that in 80% of cases you wouldn't need to scroll, and have the indicator for those edge cases | 2019-01-30T08:57:27.475900 | Nana |
elmlang | general | I would use `text ""` because that is literally nothing in HTML, while `div [] []` still adds a node | 2019-01-30T08:58:48.476000 | Earnest |
elmlang | general | And if you swap the order of arguments it might look nicer in use:
```
let
someConditionalHtml = maybeView2 maybeA maybeB <| \a b ->
div [] [ text <| a ++ b ]
``` | 2019-01-30T08:59:30.476300 | Earnest |
elmlang | general | it's such a bummer you cannot programmatically react to browser window rendering changes in Elm | 2019-01-30T09:00:48.477200 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | only through ports | 2019-01-30T09:00:56.477400 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> you don't need ports, there's a subscription for that | 2019-01-30T09:01:47.478400 | Nana |
elmlang | general | otherwise you'd need some kind of dependency injection of the whole DOM into view component | 2019-01-30T09:02:02.478900 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> by rendering changes, do you mean like viewport width/height? | 2019-01-30T09:02:08.479100 | Cecile |
elmlang | general | <@Cecile> | 2019-01-30T09:02:17.479300 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | yea | 2019-01-30T09:02:19.479500 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | <@Nana> thanks! will look into it | 2019-01-30T09:02:43.480000 | Daysi |
elmlang | general | lol then I hope <@Leanna> is right | 2019-01-30T09:02:54.480300 | Cecile |
elmlang | general | <@Daysi> `Browser.Events.onResize` | 2019-01-30T09:03:39.481100 | Nana |
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