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[ { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "I would like to thank Dan Lebrun for these petitions called “Supportive Housing.”", "Whereas there are 2.6 million Ontarians living with a disability that require different levels of support, Ontarians with disabilities face a higher risk of institutionalization—going into a long-term-care home—due to lack of supportive housing. They want to live in their own home, but they need support.", "The housing starts are not acceptable, and they are not inclusive. Most of the new homes that are being built are not inclusive, are not accessible and certainly do not have the supportive services that go with them.", "They signed the petition because they would like the government of Ontario to invest in supportive housing so that the 2.6 million Ontarians living with a disability would have an accessible place to live and would have supports to allow them to live respectfully in their own home.", "I fully support this petition. I will affix my name to it and ask Marie-David to bring it to the Clerk." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "This petition is entitled “Let’s Fix the Northern Health Travel Grant.” It’s a petition I’ve spoken about in the past. The short version of this really is that the Northern Health Travel Grant hasn’t been updated in a very, very long time, and the costs that were in place back when it was brought out have slowly, over time, due to the cost of living increasing, fallen behind, so people in the north who are travelling to southern Ontario for medical reasons are paying out of pocket for what’s happening.", "One of the issues that comes to my office a lot, related to that, specifically, is that you are not paid for the first 100 kilometres when you travel. As well, the cost that it has for hotels, for example, doesn’t cover the cost of a hotel [inaudible] if it’s a family member going down, you’re out of pocket and worried about your health.", "I feel like their ask is very reasonable. They want to bring together health care providers in the north and recipients of the Northern Health Travel Grant to form a committee to make recommendations.", "My understanding is, the Minister of Health has committed to an update that will be coming this fall. Fall doesn’t end until December 21, so, hopefully, it’s coming out before then.", "I know it’s very important to the people of Sudbury. I will affix my signature in support and give it to Graham for the table." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "I would like to thank Stephanie Poirier from Hanmer in my riding for these petitions. They’re called “Invest in Ontario’s Arts and Culture Sector.”", "Did you know, Speaker, that the arts and culture sector contributes $28 billion to Ontario’s GDP and creates over 300,000 jobs?", "The Ontario Arts Council has not seen an increase in their budget for a very, very long time, which makes it really hard for them.", "Many of the people who work in the culture and arts sector have income precarity. They make very low income—many of them below $25,000 a year.", "They would like the government to consider increasing the Ontario Arts Council budget to $65 million, to adequately invest into arts and culture, including for equity-deserving groups—small, medium grassroots collectives, and the BIPOC community as well as the LGBTQ community.", "I think it’s a good idea. I will affix my name to it and ask page Lincoln to bring it to the Clerk." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "I move that, pursuant to standing order 50 and notwithstanding any other standing order or special order of the House relating to Bill 212, An Act to enact two Acts and amend various Acts with respect to highways, broadband-related expropriation and other transportation-related matters, Bill 214, An Act to amend various energy statutes respecting long term energy planning, changes to the Distribution System Code and the Transmission System Code and electric vehicle charging, and Bill 216, An Act to implement Budget measures and to enact and amend various statutes;", "That when Bill 212 is next called as a government order, the Speaker shall put every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill without further debate or amendment; and", "1520", "That, upon receiving second reading, Bill 212 shall be referred to the Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy; and", "That the Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy be authorized to meet on Monday, November 18, 2024, at 9 a.m. until 10 a.m. to receive a 20-minute opening statement on Bill 212 by the Minister of Transportation or designate, followed by 40 minutes of questions and answers, divided into two rounds of 7.5 minutes for the government members, two rounds of 7.5 minutes for the official opposition members, and two rounds of five minutes for the independent member of the committee; and", "That the committee be authorized to meet on Monday, November 18, 2024, from 1 p.m. until 6 p.m., for the purpose of public hearings on Bill 212; and", "That the Clerk of the Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy, in consultation with the committee Chair, be authorized to arrange the following with regard to Bill 212:", "—That the deadline for requests to appear be 5 p.m. on Friday, November 8, 2024; and", "—That the Clerk of the Committee provide a list of all interested presenters to each member of the subcommittee and their designate following the deadline for requests to appear; and", "—That, if not all interested presenters can be scheduled, each member of the subcommittee or their designate provide the Clerk of the Committee with a prioritized list of presenters to be scheduled, chosen from the list of all interested presenters, by 12 p.m. on Tuesday, November 12, 2024; and", "—That witnesses shall be scheduled in groups of three for each one-hour time slot, with each presenter allotted seven minutes to make an opening statement followed by 39 minutes of questioning for all three witnesses, divided into two rounds of 7.5 minutes for the government members, two rounds of 7.5 minutes for the official opposition members, and two rounds of 4.5 minutes for the independent member of the committee; and", "—That the deadline for written submissions be 7 p.m. on Monday, November 18, 2024; and", "—That the deadline for filing amendments to the bill with the Clerk of the Committee shall be 5 p.m. on Tuesday, November 19, 2024; and", "That the committee be authorized to meet on Thursday, November 21, 2024, from 9 a.m. until 10:15 a.m., from 1 p.m. until 6 p.m., and from 7 p.m. until midnight for the purpose of clause-by-clause consideration of Bill 212; and", "That on Thursday, November 21, 2024, at 7 p.m., those amendments to Bill 212 which have not yet been moved shall be deemed to have been moved, and the Chair of the committee shall interrupt the proceedings and shall, without further debate or amendment, put every question necessary to dispose of all remaining sections of the bill and any amendments thereto; and at this time, the Chair shall allow one waiting period, if requested by a member of the committee, pursuant to standing order 131(a); and", "That the committee shall report Bill 212 to the House no later than Monday, November 25, 2024, and if the committee fails to report the bill on that day, the bill shall be deemed passed by the committee and shall be deemed reported to and received by the House; and", "That upon receiving the report of the Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy on Bill 212, the Speaker shall put the question for adoption of the report forthwith; and", "That upon adoption of the report, Bill 212 shall be ordered for third reading, which order may be called the same day; and", "That when the order for third reading of Bill 212 is called, 55 minutes shall be allotted to debate with 25 minutes for members of His Majesty’s government, 25 minutes for members of His Majesty’s loyal opposition, and five minutes for the independent members as a group; and", "That, at the end of this time, the Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings and shall put every question necessary to dispose of the third reading stage of Bill 212 without further debate or amendment; and", "That, except in the case of a recorded division arising from the morning orders of the day, no deferral of the third reading vote on Bill 212 shall be permitted; and", "That, if a recorded division is requested on the third reading vote on Bill 212 the division bells shall be limited to five minutes; and", "That when Bill 214 is next called as a government order, the Speaker shall put every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill without further debate or amendment; and", "That, upon receiving second reading, Bill 214 shall be referred to the Standing Committee on the Interior; and", "That the Standing Committee on the Interior be authorized to meet on Monday, November 18, 2024, at 9 a.m. until 10 a.m. to receive a 20-minute opening statement on Bill 214 by the Minister of Energy and Electrification or designate, followed by 40 minutes of questions and answers, divided into two rounds of 7.5 minutes for the government members, two rounds of 7.5 minutes for the official opposition members, and two rounds of five minutes for the independent member of the committee; and", "That the committee be authorized to meet on Monday, November 18, 2024, from 1 p.m. until 6 p.m., for the purpose of public hearings on Bill 214; and", "That the Clerk of the Standing Committee on the Interior, in consultation with the committee Chair, be authorized to arrange the following with regard to Bill 214:", "—That the deadline for requests to appear be 5 p.m. on Tuesday, November 12, 2024; and", "—That the Clerk of the Committee provide a list of all interested presenters to each member of the subcommittee and their designate following the deadline for requests to appear; and", "—That, if not all interested presenters can be scheduled, each member of the subcommittee or their designate provide the Clerk of the Committee with a prioritized list of presenters to be scheduled, chosen from the list of all interested presenters, by 2 p.m. on Wednesday, November 13, 2024; and", "—That witnesses shall be scheduled in groups of three for each one-hour time slot, with each presenter allotted seven minutes to make an opening statement, followed by 39 minutes of questioning for all three witnesses, divided into two rounds of 7.5 minutes for the government members, two rounds of 7.5 minutes for the official opposition members, and two rounds of 4.5 minutes for the independent member of the committee; and", "—That the deadline for written submissions be 6 p.m. on Monday, November 18, 2024; and", "—That the deadline for filing amendments to the bill with the Clerk of the Committee shall be 4 p.m. on Tuesday, November 19, 2024; and", "That the committee be authorized to meet on Thursday, November 21, 2024, from 9 a.m. until 10:15 a.m., from 1 p.m. until 6 p.m., and from 7 p.m. until midnight for the purpose of clause-by-clause consideration of Bill 214; and", "That on Thursday, November 21, 2024, at 7 p.m., those amendments to Bill 214 which have not yet been moved shall be deemed to have been moved, and the Chair of the committee shall interrupt the proceedings and shall, without further debate or amendment, put every question necessary to dispose of all remaining sections of the bill and any amendments thereto; and at this time, the Chair shall allow one waiting period, if requested by a member of the committee, pursuant to standing order 131(a); and", "That the committee shall report Bill 214 to the House no later than Monday, November 25, 2024, and if the committee fails to report the bill on that day, the bill shall be deemed passed by the committee and shall be deemed reported to and received by the House; and", "That upon receiving the report of the Standing Committee on the Interior on Bill 214, the Speaker shall put the question for adoption of the report forthwith; and", "That upon adoption of the report, Bill 214 shall be ordered for third reading, which order may be called the same day; and", "That when the order for third reading of Bill 214 is called, 55 minutes shall be allotted to debate with 25 minutes for members of His Majesty’s government, 25 minutes for members of His Majesty’s loyal opposition, and five minutes for the independent members as a group; and", "That at the end of this time, the Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings and shall put every question necessary to dispose of the third reading stage of Bill 214 without further debate or amendment; and", "That when Bill 216 is next called as a government order, the Speaker shall put every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill without further debate or amendment; and", "1530", "That upon receiving second reading the bill shall be ordered for third reading, which order may be called the same day; and", "That when the order for third reading of the bill is called, the Speaker shall put every question necessary to dispose of the third reading stage of the bill without further debate or amendment; and", "That, except in the case of a recorded division arising from the morning orders of the day, no deferral of the second or third reading votes on the bill shall be permitted; and", "That if a recorded division is requested on the third reading vote on the bill the division bells shall be limited to five minutes." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "The government House leader has moved government notice of motion number 26.", "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "It’s a very long motion and a very important motion for the government.", "As I’ve said in the House before, we’ve got a very short sitting—tomorrow, there will be essentially four and a half sitting weeks left until the House rises.", "These bills are very, very important for His Majesty’s government.", "Bill 212, which the Honourable Prabmeet Sarkaria, Minister of Transportation, tabled in this House on October 21, is an act that covers some very, very important transportation measures for our government. Schedule 1, the Building Broadband Faster Act—I think everyone in this House agrees that broadband is a critical piece of infrastructure that all of our communities need. The Building Highways Faster Act, 2024—again, self-explanatory: I believe there are highways in every corner of this province that I think all members of this House would agree should be built faster and more efficiently. The Highway 413 Act was one of our signature commitments to the people of Ontario during the last election. And finally, the Highway Traffic Act and the Towing and Storage Safety and Enforcement Act, which—I’m going to paraphrase: The minister has got a lot of questions about bike lanes in this Legislature.", "The one thing that I will say about the Premier and the minister—they’ve been very clear on what they’ve meant when it comes to getting traffic moving. Part of our commitment to the people of Ontario is that we’re going to get things moving. They’ve been crystal clear in all of their endeavours about what that means. I don’t think anybody can say the Premier wasn’t clear when he made his Empire speech about how he wanted to handle certain bike lanes in the city of Toronto, to deal with gridlock.", "Bill 214, again, is another signature bill for the Minister of Energy and Electrification, the Honourable Stephen Lecce—an act to amend various energy statutes respecting long-term energy planning. I think long-term energy planning is something that our government—through his speech on October 23, when he tabled this legislation in the leadoff speech—is committed to and we need desperately. I’ve been in this House since 2010, and there have been a number of situations regarding residential construction where the last mile has stopped residential development because of the way energy policy was dealt with. I’ve also got a number of opportunities in my riding when it comes to industrial growth. But again, the last mile, which this bill will deal with, is certainly something that we need.", "The last portion of this legislation was Bill 216, which is the 2024 Ontario Economic Outlook and Fiscal Review. Next to our government’s budget, the fall economic statement is the second-most important economic piece for us. Again, the government has been very clear. We’ve looked Ontarians in the eye and said that we want to continue to take a fiscally responsible approach to invest in the economy and to build the critical infrastructure for our growing communities. Bill 212 speaks to that; so does Bill 216. We need to reduce gridlock; again, Bill 216 and Bill 212 speak to that. We need to make life more affordable. This is a pivotal bill in our government’s mandate, and we need to ensure that there’s certainty around some of the measures in Bill 216.", "For those who want to talk about the fact that we only have four and a half weeks, I have to say that both Minister Sarkaria in transportation and Minister Lecce in energy and electrification certainly took the summer, in their portfolios, to talk to Ontarians, to consult with Ontarians and to help formulate the policies that are here. I know in my own riding, when it comes to Minister Bethlenfalvy and the fall economic statement—he spent a lot of time in my riding, talking to Ontarians about what they wanted to see in terms of continuing to build our province and moving our province forward.", "I want to say to those three ministers—their summer was well spent, consulting, talking, but most importantly, listening. I think that’s one of the things that I wanted to put on the floor with this motion, as we move forward and we provide certainty for these three bills." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "It’s always an honour to be able to stand in this House and reply to the government’s motion of time allocation—of these three bills.", "The one thing I will agree with the government House leader on is that they’re important bills. That’s why we disagree that they should be time-allocated. That is the most important thing.", "What is time allocation? Basically, the way a bill normally travels through the House—it’s introduced at first reading. We, as a rule, always approve first reading, because we believe that bills should be able to be introduced in the House so they can be debated. It’s our job to be the owl to look at, make sure that the—I got that right, eh? We’re the owl?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Yes, yes." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "To be the owl, to make sure that we look at what the government has planned and point out mistakes, or point out different—anyway, that’s—" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "We are the eagle." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "We’re the eagle? Okay. That’s the first time I’ve tried that quote; it will be the last time, too.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Okay. I’ve got an hour. You can talk all you want. But we take our role very seriously.", "So the way it goes: The bill is introduced at first reading. We approve. It’s introduced for second reading. It’s debated, eight, 10 hours, until everyone who wants to add their voices from either side has the opportunity to do so. You go to your ridings, the people you represent, and you talk to them about the bill, and then you bring their views to the House. That’s becoming increasingly difficult, because this government introduces a bill, one day, and then debates it the next day. They can consult with the people who they prefer to consult with, but the overall general population of the province often doesn’t get the chance to consult. That is a problem.", "Anyway, the bill goes through its normal eight, 10 hours—" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "They usually limit it at 6.5." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Yes. Always, the Speaker gets up at six and a half hours and says, “Shall the bill continue to be debated?” If there are still different points of view, it’s allowed, but under this government, with the new House leader, who I get along with, personally—now they halt, they adjourn debate at six and a half, and then they introduce a time allocation motion to limit debate.", "There are three bills they’re limiting here—they’re limiting debate on all three and eliminating committee on one. They’re basically eliminating the views of many people in Ontario—especially on bills that are so serious." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Explain what a committee does, how people can—" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Thank you, member from Nickel Belt.", "When a bill is taken to committee, that’s when—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "She can heckle me from any seat she wants.", "That’s when people who have a vested interest and who are experts in their field can come and give the government and the opposition their views, their advice.", "To curtail that, as is done in the final fall economic statement, which the government claims to be the second-most important bill in this House other than the budget—to totally eliminate the views of anyone to come to committee? I think that is very dangerous in itself.", "1540", "You can take my word for it—or you might not take my word for it, and that’s fine. But what I try to do is I try to find the voices who have been working at this longer than I have, or people who I expect would understand how the system works. I did a bit of research, and what I’ve come up with—let’s call them the top hits of time allocation. I know that wouldn’t be a bestseller. But let’s talk about the top hits of time allocation—the top views.", "I have a unique perspective because, right now, I know I’m the only person here who has a family member who is in the opposite side, on the government side." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Downey", "text": [ "No, Ernie does too." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "And he regrets it more than I do. Very good catch, Attorney General. I never thought about it that way.", "See? That’s why you should have debate. This is a good debate, right? It reminded me of something that I missed.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "That’s right. The debate is powerful.", "I’d like to read a couple of quotes into the record—or reread them—from the member from Oxford county, a.k.a., to me, Uncle Ernie. He was speaking about the Liberal government in 2017, but some of this will sound strangely like it’s happening right now." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Really?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "It’s striking, actually. It’s incredible.", "Dateline May 31, 2017: “Maybe the time allocation motion is to stop us from talking about those bad decisions....", "“The government needs to stop managing from photo op to photo op. They need to actually do the research and base policies on data and evidence, and they need to stop ramming through legislation without listening to the people they are impacting; otherwise the people of Ontario will continue paying the price.”", "I agree with the member for Oxford—and it’s not always that I agree with the member of Oxford. Actually, the member for Oxford is one of the main reasons I’m NDP. But with this one, I fully agree.", "It’s not the only one. Dateline May 18, 2017: “I’ve said this before: A bill being rushed through committee is not a sign of efficiency. It is a sign of a government that is disorganized and can’t manage their schedule....", "“It seems like every day this government rushes through another bill without proper consultation or debate....", "“It is our job to debate legislation.”", "Again, very wise words from the member from Oxford county.", "It’s interesting that the government House leader, in his remarks, recognized that we have a very short sitting period, but that’s because the government chose to shorten the sitting period of the Legislature by about a month. They created the shorter sitting period. They are creating their own problem, or their own solution for not wanting to debate bad legislation.", "Again, from the member from Oxford county: May 2, 2017—and this is very important. You should all take the wise words from the member of Oxford county to heart: “Mr. Speaker, how do they go home to their constituents and say they’re doing their job if the government cuts off debate before they even have a chance to speak on this important issue?...", "“In fact, as I pointed out multiple times in this House, the government is not leading by example....", "“Mr. Speaker, instead of worrying about politics, I ask the government to worry about getting this legislation right.”", "Again, wise words from the member for Oxford county—words that the government that he is currently a member of doesn’t seem to be following. It will be interesting to see how the member from Oxford county votes on this time allocation motion.", "The member for Oxford county is not the only person who has weighed in on this.", "Someone else in this House, who I am not related to at all—but I think we all respect this member. It’s the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, someone we all know as Yak, John Yakabuski.", "We will go back to October 21, 2015: “If we have it wrong and we haven’t given it enough time, then we have done a disservice to the people of Ontario, a disservice to this Legislature. So what would be the crime for us to say: ‘Whoa, hold on. Let’s take another look at this. Let’s get the views of some more members of this Legislature’?....", "“We are cutting the head off debate, we are cutting the head off the opposition, and we are rendering this a single-party state, and that is wrong. People expect more.”", "Again, wise words from someone who is now a member of the government side, who perhaps is supportive of this bill—we won’t know until a vote.", "Again, dateline May 2, 2017: “I wish we weren’t speaking to another time allocation motion in this House, but that seems to be—maybe not the orders of the day all the time, but certainly the order of the day when it comes to this government.” I would add—it’s not in this quote—that he was speaking about the Liberal government of the day.", "This government is acting exactly like the Liberal government—" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Tyler Allsopp", "text": [ "I just got here." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "No, you were just here for a little while. I’m not pointing right at you.", "This government is acting exactly like the government it replaced—the government that we were all glad was replaced.", "“They are the government of the guillotine when it comes to debate in this chamber.” That could be said of this government, as well. “If they don’t want to talk about something because they don’t want to hear all of the facts and all of the opinions and all of the experts that are out there, they simply stifle debate, shutting out the public, but also shutting out the members of this House....", "“But there has always been a difficult balance, and I recognize that. I understand how difficult it is to govern. I have never been on that side; I’m looking forward to it someday.”", "Now they have the chance, he has the chance, and his government is doing exactly the same thing as the previous government.", "Again, I quote the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke: “I have been consistent on this point since I got here in this House. It is a misuse of this chamber, it is an abuse of the members, when you continuously bring forth time allocation motions, particularly on a bill of this nature that needs reasoned debate”—I would suggest that the fall economic statement would need reasoned debate—“that needs the opportunity for deputants to come forward with ways that can improve upon the legislation.”", "Again, I fully agree. The fact that the government is not having any committee for the fall economic statement says they only want to hear from one side—from who, you could say, are their insiders. That’s one way. They’re saying they have consulted over the summer. They’ve consulted with who they’ve picked to consult with—as opposed to open consultation, where the public can come to consult.", "Again, from the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, May 16, 2017: “I did have a chuckle myself only because I am so flabbergasted by the behaviour of a government here in the province of Ontario. They want to get legislation through so they use the—they don’t use the negotiate method; they don’t use the committee method; they don’t use the compromise method. They use the guillotine method.” And the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke always had an action move when he said that. I won’t hit the desk, because I don’t want to bug the translation people, but anyway, that’s—he did many times. “That’s how they get legislation through here in the province of Ontario—the guillotine method....", "“This is the thing that just galls me to no end. It galls me to no end that this is how we do things in this Legislature. Do you know, Speaker, what ... the problem is? I look across here at the Liberal bench and currently in front of me—I know I can’t make references to members not being in the House, so I’m not going to do that directly. But there’s not a single”—and this is an improvement, I will say. As the member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke was saying this, he said, “But there’s not a single member sitting on the Liberal side right now, as God is my witness, who has ever spent five minutes in opposition—not five minutes in opposition. They have no idea what it is like to live on this side of the House when you’re trying to make positive changes to legislation.”", "1550", "There are many on that side of the House who are in exactly the same position: They have never sat in opposition and have never actually realized what a good opposition is, and how allowing the opposition to criticize and to propose to improve the legislation for the people of Ontario—because the legislation isn’t for the government; good legislation should be for the people of Ontario.", "It is interesting to note that some of the members who have sat on the opposition benches are some of the people who are now currently advocating, promoting, the same things that they were so against from the previous government.", "That brings me to the current House leader, who now has proposed this time allocation motion. I have so many quotes from the current House leader that I don’t know where to begin. I could do the next 44 minutes just on quotes from the current House leader on why time allocation is a terrible idea.", "May 16, 2017, Mr. Steve Clark—“The Minister of Children and Youth Services can sigh all he wants, but facts do matter. Facts do matter, and deciding to choke off debate on a bill, a bill that many stakeholders are imparting information on—many stakeholders are indicating that there are some measures that they like, but there are also some measures that stakeholders have indicated to our critic that they don’t like.” That’s reasonable. “But the government doesn’t want to hear those negative voices. They want to bring this bill through committee without debate. They want to bring it back to the House with as little debate as possible and then move forward. I wouldn’t be surprised—we’ve dealt with two time allocation motions today; I believe that we’ll probably be dealing with more before this government rises.”", "How many time allocation motions have we dealt with—and the government will know—since we’ve come back?", "What the government is also doing—and they have perfected this, because now they do three bills in one motion. The Liberals didn’t really have this fully understood. They actually did each bill through a separate time allocation motion, so then they at least had to listen to us and to the Conservatives at the time—the Tory opposition. They had to listen to the Tory opposition and to us—to try to change their minds to slow this down. The current Tory government has figured out, “We don’t want to listen to this. We don’t want to listen to these people actually make sense for an hour on each bill, so we’re going to package three bills together and only have to listen to it once.” If it wasn’t so damaging for the people of Ontario, I would give you a bow. This doesn’t help the people of Ontario in the least—not at all. Actually, in the long term, it won’t help your government either because—and this isn’t a quote from anybody.", "Perhaps you know the numbers better than I, but this government, I believe, holds the record in Ontario for having to rescind legislation, having to pretend that it never happened." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "You mean like the greenbelt?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Like the greenbelt legislation and others—Bill 124.", "So why is this government not learning and saying, “Maybe we should actually listen to voices who disagree, so we can make sure our legislation stands the test of time”?", "You won a majority. You have the right to put forward your agenda. We get that. But you also have to use that power wisely so that your right stands the test of time.", "I would say that having to rescind bills almost right after you put them through; having to fight in the Supreme Court and lose and having to rescind bills; and having bills investigated by the RCMP—I would suggest that that is part of the problem. Now you’re not learning from that problem; you’re actually speeding it up. You’re doubling down, and that is truly scary.", "Anyway, back to the quotes—" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Favourite part." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Yes.", "Again, from Mr. Steve Clark—I’m reading off Hansard, so I can use the member’s name, I believe: “It has real difficulty managing its ... agenda. I used my comments a few days ago about this government’s lack of planning and organization when it came to ... House leaders’ meetings that we sat in—myself and the member for Simcoe–Grey and the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke—where the government actually indicated that they wanted two bills that they hadn’t even introduced yet, that they hadn’t even talked to the critics about. They hadn’t even disclosed the details of those bills, yet they wanted to make sure that they got them through the House with as little debate as possible. They don’t want to hear those dissenting voices.”", "Do you know what, Speaker? The government House leader will remember this. I was much younger back then, just starting out in my political career, but we used to have House leaders’ meetings where we actually discussed what bills were coming up in the next few weeks, so that we could all go back to our constituents and talk about the pros and cons of those bills. And we kind of knew what was coming up for debate so that we could provide the best-informed debate possible. The first thing that this government did was cancel that.", "This week is a good example. Basically, the government House leader got up and said, “As for the agenda for next week”—or last week. He got up on Thursday, I believe, after petitions or after motions, and basically what his report said was, “We’re going to debate stuff.” That’s basically what he said. It had no detail at all. I can see why the government likes to do that. But is it better for the people? No. Does it make better legislation? No, it doesn’t. There’s a reason why this place was designed to work like it’s supposed to work.", "I respect everyone in here, and every time I’m in here and I listen to someone speak, I learn something. Every time a government decides to curtail debate, and, even more important, decides to curtail committee, we lose the opportunity to learn something.", "I don’t profess to know everything. I say this to everyone I meet: My job is to know a little about a lot of things and to know the people who know a lot about what they’re experts in, and, when I find out what is being proposed and what’s being debated, to contact those people and see what can be done better, what’s good.", "There are lots of things that we totally disagree with the government on philosophically, but almost every government bill—like the ones you rescinded, there was nothing that we—and I quote him often, but in the words of one of my great friends, Kevin Modeste, even a broken clock is right twice a day. So there are good things in every bill, but every time—the Liberals did it, and now you’re doing it—you curtail debate, you’re missing the opportunity for someone to say, “Wait a second. Have you thought about this? Have you thought about this?” You’re totally missing that.", "Now, we will continue with the quotes from—oh, there’s so many of them, I don’t want to—okay. So again, April 21, 2015, dateline, Steve Clark, Ontario Legislature: “Again, I want to put on the record my concern that with every single bill this government tables, they either ask for closure after 10 hours or they’re starting to time-allocate all these bills. It’s a concern of mine. Here, the greatest issue that I have is that in this case, with Bill 80, we’ve only had four of our members—far, far too few members. In my entire five years as an MPP, to see a bill be time-allocated after four official opposition speakers—it’s unbelievable. So I want to put that on the record....", "“So I leave that with you, Speaker. We’re going to vote against this time allocation motion. We’re going to stand up for democracy.”", "1600", "At the time, the government House leader was concerned that the government of the day was moving closure after 10 hours—10 hours of debate. Oh, those were the days when we had 10 hours of debate. Since he’s been government House leader, each debate has been stopped at six and a half hours. He should be outraged, but he’s not. He’s not at all, and I’m shocked at that. I’m shocked at that, that there’s not even a hint of remorse. But there will be a day when there will be some remorse, when some of this legislation—when they’ve missed things that they thought they had all the answers to and it turned out they didn’t, like with the greenbelt. You all thought you had all the answers. That didn’t work out so well. Bill 124: You thought you had all the answers. It could be so easy. That didn’t turn out so well." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "Bill 28." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Bill 28, same thing. So you think you have all the answers, and obviously it didn’t work out that well.", "I think I’m going to go to—" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Child care." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "I’m going to go to the bills in a second, but I would like to close the quotes—I’m not going to quote too many more—with the top 10 quotes from Steve Clark. But actually, there’s only eight. I’m going to have to read these from back to front, because we’re going to see how the government House leader—how his thought process progressed, or regressed.", "Dateline, October 27, 2014. Bated breath? “Trust is easily lost. You need to make sure that when you carry on a government, you have that balance and you deal with people openly, honestly and with respect....”", "Pretty good, eh? I commend the government House leader on that. I fully agree with that.", "Let’s go to October 28, 2014, just one day later: “My colleague from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke quoted one of the sayings that is here in this chamber”—and I don’t know anything about Latin—“Audi alteram partem, which means, ‘Hear the other side.’ All we’re asking is that you hear the other side.”", "Again, very thoughtful. I have to commend the member.", "November 24, 2014: “Debate is the hallmark of our democratic society. It’s the reason we get up in the morning and come to this place at Queen’s Park.” What has happened to the government House leader?", "April 16, 2015: “It is anti-democratic to speed legislation through this House without adequate debate from all parties....", "“So again, I appeal to the member for St. Catharines and all the MPPs on the government benches to consider carefully the path you’re treading. When you are elected into government, you not only are given power, but you’re also given the trust of the people. Don’t silence the voices, even though they’re opposition voices, by shutting down debate and forcing time allocation.”", "I couldn’t have said that better myself." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Pretty well said." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Very, very eloquently said.", "April 21, 2015—this is a very short one. This one is going to be echoed by me at the end of this speech: “We’re going to vote against this time allocation motion. We’re going to stand up for democracy.” What happened to democracy?", "October 22, 2015: “Time after time after time this government has rammed through pieces of legislation because they don’t want the opposition’s voices to be heard and they don’t want the voices of Ontarians to be heard.”", "It’s funny how a move across the aisle changes the perspective, but it doesn’t change the problems. This doesn’t change the problems.", "May 16, 2017—dateline again. The current government House leader mentions Mr. Bradley several times. Mr. Bradley was the Liberal government House leader at the time, dean of the Legislature at the time, a very long-serving member: “Mr. Bradley goes on to say in his speech on December 11, 2001”—so I’m quoting Mr. Clark quoting Mr. Bradley: “‘The best way to deal with legislation is to have the government sitting most of the year so that it can receive careful analysis and debate in this House and in committees and, in fact, in committees that travel across the province to get meaningful input. We do not have that.’", "“Again, I agree with Jim Bradley from November 24, 1993”—and actually, I agree with Jim Bradley from November 24, 1993, and so did the government House leader when he actually said this.", "He continues—the current government House leader: “So we’ve taken the entire legislative day to just talk about this government’s desire to get their bills passed and get out of here for the couple of months we have as a break. I just think that’s not the speech that I heard from the throne when we were elected.”", "Again, that actually could be said of the current government—absolutely.", "I’m almost done. May 16—no, no. Wait a second. I already read this one. Okay, so this is going to be my last quote from the government House leader when he wasn’t government House leader. This one—okay, you’re going to have to pay attention to this one.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Yes, you’re going to have to pay attention to this one.", "Dateline, November 28, 2017: “I’ll give them, actually, the People’s Guarantee, because we will listen to them, and we will ensure that those Ontarians are being listened to.", "“We are looking at a government that is for the insiders and not the people. You know what, Speaker? That’s going to change.”", "Really? There’s a French saying: “Le plus ça change, le plus” it remains the same. Come on.", "He continues, “They’re going to stifle public opinion. They’re going to shut down all opposing voices. They’re going to rack up a lot of Facebook ads and a lot of television ads to try to promote themselves. People have seen through that. They’ve seen enough of this movie. They want it to end.”", "That’s eloquent—eloquent. What I can’t understand is why the current government House leader is doing exactly the same thing he accused the Liberal government of. Will the real Steve Clark please stand up?", "In his presentation, he mentioned the three bills that the government is time-allocating, and I’m going to spend a few minutes on those bills, because since it’s time-allocated, I likely won’t get another chance to speak to it.", "If you remember, on Bill 212, I was just starting my speech when the Speaker, following the rules of the House, stood up at six and a half hours and said, “Shall debate continue or shall we adjourn?” and the government House leader asked for the debate to adjourn, stifling my ability to represent my constituents.", "1610" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Tyler Allsopp", "text": [ "And you said nothing." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Oh, no, I did say something. I followed the rules of the House, so this is my opportunity. This bill spends a lot of time talking about gridlock, and I was going to talk about gridlock as well. I can remember this exactly. I was just about to talk about how I travel from my riding—my house is about six hours north of here, and I travel down here once a week, travel back and forth when the Leg is running.", "A lot of people don’t—I get that gridlock in the GTA is incredibly frustrating. I get that. I drive through it, and I only have to do it once a week—or twice a week, back and forth. I have trouble with low numbers. You know, I forgot I was—anyway.", "What people don’t understand is that, in northern Ontario, the TransCanada Highway goes through my riding. All the goods that travel back and forth through Canada, especially in wintertime, go through my riding. They go through Highway 11. It happens time after time after time that there’s an accident on Highway 11, and that’s northern gridlock. Everything stops. And if it’s a serious accident—and we’re not going to go blow by blow because I do not want to retraumatize the families who go through this. But if it’s a serious accident, if it’s a fatality, the highway is closed for hours and hours and hours, and people are stuck on that highway because there is no detour. There is no detour on Highway 11.", "Sometimes the highway is closed when a commercial truck does something that obviously shows that they shouldn’t be driving that commercial truck. We have seen—and my colleagues from the north can back me up, and I’m sure the people from the government side would back me up as well if they were allowed to debate.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "So I have been behind a truck that decided to do—Highway 11, a two-lane highway with not much shoulders and, all of a sudden, the 40-foot or the 50-foot trailer decides to do a three-point turn on Highway 11. And do you know what happens? The front wheels are in one ditch and the trailer wheels are in another ditch, and it’s done. The highway is closed. It happens time after time after time.", "I’m not even talking about the really dangerous accidents. Anyone who’s driven on those highways, on 11 or 17, we have all, all of us, had the white-knuckle moment where you pull on the side and go, “But for the grace of God, there go I.” We have all had that.", "Can you imagine how we feel in northern Ontario—anybody in Ontario—when we see on Marketplace how drivers are licensed in Ontario? Do you realize that the Auditor General already identified a similar issue in 2018? In 2018, the Auditor General identified a similar issue and nothing—nothing.", "Now, I give credit where credit is due. The Ministry of Transportation has been doing blitzes, and the one blitz early this year—and I know this one because this one sticks in my head—76 commercial vehicles were pulled over, and that’s a good thing. And 32 weren’t allowed back on the road because they weren’t safe—almost half. So on any given day, half the cross-country trucks in my riding are unsafe." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "In mine too." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "The member from Mushkegowuk–James Bay—and the one thing you have to realize for northern Ontario is that’s also our main street. We can’t take the other street because we know, yes, the trucks are on this street so we’ll take the other one. We don’t have that. That’s our main street.", "Want to go to the grocery store? Highway 11. Want to go to the doctor, if you have one—that’s a whole other discussion. Take Highway 11." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Graham McGregor", "text": [ "What if I want to ride my bike?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Okay. Don’t start pushing me on bikes. I’m Dutch. Dutch people like bikes. But anyway, it’s a serious, serious issue.", "We want to talk about gridlock. If I make it to North Bay, you get four lanes. Life changes with a divided four-lane highway. Life changes. You get down to Barrie, it gets really busy. I’ve said this before: When you’re a northerner, anywhere below Barrie is the GTA. We can’t tell the difference if it’s Brampton, Markham or Scarborough. I know now, but not then.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "You all laugh at that, but many people think that north of Barrie or north of Muskoka, it’s all tundra, and I’ll assure you that’s not the case. That’s not the case.", "But you know what, the thing that I find most odd: I drive to Toronto and the 400, the 401 are packed. I get that people are frustrated. But I’m from northern Ontario and I can’t understand—the 407 is built and it’s empty.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "It’s empty. It’s empty. When I drive by it, it’s pretty empty. I’ve taken it a couple of times. I realize why people avoid the 407: The bills are big. The funny part is this current government or their Conservative predecessors, they actually—they didn’t sell the 407. That’s not accurate. They leased it out—right?—for, I believe, 95 years, 99 years. They probably used the same contract that they are using on Ontario Place—probably using the same contract.", "In the debate, one of the Conservative members—we were talking about the 407. In the debate, they said, “Well, the 407 is not going to reach full capacity for seven years. So talking about trying to get some kind of legislation, or actually buy part of the 407 back or do something is so short-sighted.”", "Well, you know what? I don’t think that leaving the people of Ontario who need to get to work and are on the 401—to leave them there for seven years because you don’t want to admit that it was a mistake to lease out, to basically give away the 407, I don’t think that’s responsible, at all.", "When we talk about gridlock, there are all kinds of gridlock. But if there’s one thing I can leave this government—if the Minister of Transportation really wants to look at it, we need to clean up commercial drivers. There are a lot of great commercial drivers—I would say the majority. But the bad ones? We have all, in northern Ontario—I’ve had a truck come at me and pass, and I’ve had to pull off to avoid the head-on. This isn’t a once-off. This happens all the time.", "That’s something we need to be able to stop. That’s something that we need to—I think it’s beneficial. I think we’re having a beneficial debate here. It’s too bad that you always want to cut them off. I’m making a point here.", "Now, the next bill—what was the next bill?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Bill 214." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Bill 214. It’s a bill that concerns mostly energy, almost all. Oh, no, I have to go back to the other one: broadband. That’s Bill 212. That’s another very important thing across the province. The government came out with a $4-billion plan to fix this and we were supposed to have full broadband by the end of 2025 I don’t think you’re going to make it.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "I don’t think you’re going to make it, and the reason that you’re not going to make it is the way—you divided the province up into 40 regions and then held a Dutch auction.", "1620", "I know what a Dutch auction is because I’m Dutch; I don’t know if the rest of you know what a Dutch auction is. It’s a reverse auction.", "Companies could bid on if they were going to supply broadband in that region, but you had to be—my region was huge, where I am, so all the little players, the smaller broadband players that were actually providing the service, couldn’t bid.", "In our region, a big telecom, Bell, won the bid, but they didn’t provide the service before and are likely not going to provide the service now. I get it; Bell is a private company. I ran a private company for a long time—not the size of Bell; I was a farmer. I grew things that I could sell to make money. If there was something that I grew continually and it didn’t make money, I quit growing it. Bell is not in the business of serving hard-to-serve places, because there’s no money in it. So the government is now going to provide them a subsidy, and what they’re doing is, they’re rebuilding infrastructure that was already there, and the people who didn’t have Internet before still don’t have it.", "The government House leader spent some time talking about the last mile. He’s right on one—it’s always the last mile that’s so hard to serve. In northern Ontario—I’m not even northern Ontario; my colleague from Kiiwetinoong is far farther north than me. I’m not northern Ontario; I’m central Ontario—but we know very well, because we are always, always the last mile.", "Bill 214: This one is regarding energy. Do you know what? As we electrify the province and we have electric cars, we’re going to need a lot more energy. That’s not a surprise to any of us, and I think we all could agree on that. And regardless of where that energy comes from, we need to price it. We need to know how much it’s going to cost—the total cost, the true cost—regardless of whether it’s nuclear, wind, solar, natural gas or water power. There are a few big hydro dams—and the reason many of us call electricity “hydro” is because of water power. They all have costs, they all have impacts, and we need to be sure that what we’re investing for the future, for many years—that we actually have the true costs. This bill doesn’t actually do that.", "The government has been very reluctant to talk about true costs, and I think that’s a problem and that’s why this bill should be further debated, and—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Well, this bill is going to go to committee. The committee debate is short, as well, but the debate for third reading is very short.", "The bill that’s the most truncated—if you want to measure bills by importance, by thickness, this is a quarter incher. That’s a pretty big bill for these guys. The government House leader said that this was the second-most important bill next to the budget. You would think, since it’s so important and the government is so proud of what they have in this bill, that they would want to debate as much as possible; that they would have want to have a committee to look at it, to have people to see, because the more information you have, the better decisions you can make." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "It hasn’t even been a week." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "It hasn’t been a week.", "There’s one part in this bill and in the following bill talking about—and the Premier has made a big deal about this: that every person in the province is going to get $200. I’m not trying to minimize 200 bucks. I don’t care what your income is; 200 bucks is 200 bucks. And for some people, $200 is a lot of money. I would highly recommend, if the government is going to send that cheque, that you cash that cheque. But I often—I don’t know how to put this. I read a lot. I don’t read a lot of Shakespeare. I think people know that. But this $200 cheque reminded me of a strip in The Wizard of Id. Some of you might be too young for The Wizard of Id.", "As you know if you follow my Hansard, I have compared this government—the “get ’er done” bill I suggested perhaps was written by Larry the Cable Guy. And then when they rescinded the bills, I suggested it was written by Homer Simpson—like, d’oh. And then I suggested that perhaps the government reminded me a bit of The Dukes of Hazzard." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Yes, I was there." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Yes. Well, the $200 cheque reminds me of a strip in The Wizard of Id. Again, I’m not minimizing the 200 bucks. If you need—" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Nina Tangri", "text": [ "But you are." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "No, I’m not. The 200 bucks is very important.", "I’ll just have to give a bit of background on The Wizard of Id. The kingdom of Id is ruled by a despotic king who pretends to have elections. He has a wizard. He has a few other main characters. The king is on his castle wall, and he’s giving a speech to his people. He promises, “If you vote for me, I promise a chicken in every pot.” His people, the people who live in Id, start throwing rocks and pitchforks at the king. He turns to the wizard and asks, “What’s wrong with these peasants?” And he says, “Sire, they no longer have pots.” If you don’t catch the reference, perhaps—“We couldn’t get you a doctor. We promised; we couldn’t get you that. We can’t even get you gauze for your home care. Here’s 200 bucks. Hopefully, you’ll forget.”", "For those in northern Ontario, with the budget—and I remember this distinctly—the Northern Health Travel Grant was going to be changed. Do you know what? It hasn’t changed. It might be coming. But for someone who has to come to Toronto for surgery—do you know what a hotel room in Toronto is now? And do you know how much they get? A hundred bucks—“Here’s 200 bucks. Maybe you’ll forget.” It’s an awful lot like The Wizard of Id. You’re trying to make people forget about your own shortcomings, and maybe they will.", "Again, I encourage everyone to cash that cheque and use it on whatever you’re missing that this government has absolutely failed to accomplish.", "The Premier actually said that Ontario is now the powerhouse of the whole of North America; the whole world is looking at Ontario as a powerhouse. Okay, I will take his word on that. If it’s a powerhouse and then—and I’m paraphrasing, but I think I’m close. We need to send everyone 200 bucks to stimulate the economy? No, those two don’t fit. The truth is, the 200 bucks is to hopefully, hopefully make people forget the shortcomings of this government. That’s what the 200 bucks is about.", "1630", "What people want government for is the basics. They want to make sure that they can have a safe school for their kids. They want to make sure that if they work hard, they can eventually afford a home. They want to make sure they can rent a home. They want to make sure that when they call an ambulance, an ambulance comes. They want to make sure—in my part of the world—when your hospitals are far apart, that when you get to an emergency room, it’s—" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjection", "text": [ "Open." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "—open. They want to make sure that they don’t have to travel eight or 10 hours to have a baby.", "Do you know what? Those basics are actually what create jobs. When companies come here and they see that everything is stable and it’s—I live in a riding, Timiskaming–Cochrane. We have all kinds of jobs—high-paying jobs in the mines, in forestry, in farming; six-figure jobs. Why can’t we get people to come and stay? Because of our lack of basic, basic services; of mental health services, of social services, the things that government should help provide—and they’re not.", "You’re not providing basic services, and that is—maybe not your undoing, but it’s the province’s undoing.", "You can give millions and billions to certain industries. Do you know what? We have agreed with some of those. We haven’t voted against them all—but we have brought it up continually regarding health care, regarding mental health, regarding education, regarding housing.", "I listened to the government say, “Oh, the NDP can’t cost their plan on housing and blah blah blah”—I forget what number they showed up with. For some reason, the government has no problem putting—what is it?—a billion dollars in a parking garage for a spa. But any money to help build houses, non-market housing that the private sector is not going to build without help—that’s too much money. But a billion-dollar parking garage for a spa? “Sign me up.” What is that? That’s your undoing.", "A very good question was asked today regarding encampments. There were no encampments when I got here. It’s not just an Ontario problem; I get that. But when the government is talking about using the “notwithstanding” clause to move the encampments—where are you going to move these people to? What kind of society doesn’t look at the root causes of the problem and at least try to fix the root causes? You’re not doing that. You’re failing on that.", "The fact is that you don’t even want to debate bills, that you think you have all the answers. When you see that things are going wrong, you’re going down exactly the same road as the previous government went down. You think that you’re infallible, and so did they. They were just as smug as some of you are now—and not all of you. I have great relations with—but as a government, the fact that you time-allocate major budget bills, quite frankly, is arrogant and smug, and people at some point are going to realize that. I hope, as a province, that you change course. Deep down, we all want the best for Ontarians; I 100% believe that. That’s why I ran for this job. That’s why I’m here speaking. That’s why you all ran.", "Speaker, we will be opposing time allocation on these three bills because we believe that democracy depends on debate. In many parts of this world, people would love to have the ability to debate bills. The fact that a majority government chooses to curtail debate is a threat to democracy. That’s why we will vote against this time allocation and any other ones that come forward." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Further debate?", "Mr. Clark has moved government notice of motion number 26 relating to allocation of time on Bill 212, An Act to enact two Acts and amend various Acts with respect to highways, broadband-related expropriation and other transportation-related matters; Bill 214, An Act to amend various energy statutes respecting long term energy planning, changes to the Distribution System Code and the Transmission System Code and electric vehicle charging; and Bill 216, An Act to implement Budget measures and to enact and amend various statutes.", "Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard a no.", "All those in favour, please say aye.", "All those opposed, please say nay.", "In my opinion, the ayes have it.", "A recorded vote being required, it will be deferred to the next instance of deferred votes.", "Vote deferred." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Orders of the day? The government House leader." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "I move to see the clock at 6." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "The government House leader has moved to see the clock at 6. Agreed? Agreed." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Amarjot Sandhu", "text": [ "I move that, in the opinion of this House, the Minister of Transportation should explore the establishment or adjustment of a waiting period for drivers holding a class G licence before they can apply for commercial vehicle licences, such as class A or class D, to ensure that commercial drivers are experienced and fully prepared for the responsibilities associated with operating larger vehicles, with an exemption for drivers where appropriate, such as agricultural operations." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Pursuant to standing order 100, the member has 12 minutes for his presentation." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Amarjot Sandhu", "text": [ "I am honoured to stand here today to discuss my private member’s motion, which is aimed at enhancing road safety across Ontario while ensuring that our commercial drivers meet the highest standards of competency and readiness. This motion calls upon the Minister of Transportation to explore the establishment of a mandatory waiting period for class G licence holders before they can apply for commercial vehicle licences. The purpose of this waiting period is to give drivers the valuable time and experience they need on Ontario’s roads before taking on the responsibility of operating larger, more complex vehicles.", "1640", "I’d like to begin by thanking the honourable Minister of Transportation for their unwavering commitment to putting the safety of Ontarians first. Under the minister’s leadership, Ontario’s roadways have benefited from policies that prioritize the well-being of everyone on the road, from pedestrians to professional drivers. It’s inspiring to work alongside a ministry so dedicated to continuous improvement in public safety.", "An example of this commitment can be seen in my recent private member’s motion, which has now successfully introduced an online air-braking learning module. This new system replaces the air brake knowledge test at the time of renewal, streamlining the processes for drivers while maintaining rigorous safety standards and eliminating unnecessary red tape. By embracing modernization, we’re able to keep Ontario’s licensing system efficient and responsive to the needs of the trucking industry which serves as a lifeline for our economy.", "Madam Speaker, road safety isn’t just a provincial issue. It’s deeply personal to the people I represent. In Brampton and across Ontario, road safety is a top concern for families, businesses and communities. Many of my constituents regularly share their worries about keeping our roads safe for their loved ones and colleagues. They see first-hand the challenges and potential dangers associated with large commercial vehicles on our highways and have voiced their belief in the importance of thorough preparation for those in charge of operating these vehicles.", "I stand here today on behalf of those constituents, committed to listening to their concerns and acting on their behalf to make our roads safer. They understand that preparation and experience are crucial, especially when it comes to operating large vehicles that require quick reflexes, sound judgment and a steady hand. This motion aims to ensure that drivers who transition to the commercial sector have these vital qualities.", "This motion is rooted in a straightforward but powerful goal: to ensure that all commercial drivers are prepared and experienced enough to handle the responsibilities associated with operating large vehicles on Ontario’s roads. By implementing a waiting period between obtaining a class G licence and applying for a commercial licence, we’re addressing the critical need for increased experience, maturity and skill development before a driver can step into the commercial sector. The waiting period will provide class G drivers with essential experience on Ontario’s roads, familiarizing them with our unique road conditions, diverse weather patterns and high-traffic areas.", "Canada’s unpredictable weather—harsh winters, foggy autumns and slippery spring roads—requires a level of driving proficiency that only time and practice can build. This period will allow drivers to build the confidence and skills necessary to safely operate large vehicles, benefiting both themselves and the broader community.", "Commercial drivers play a vital role in Canada’s economy and transportation network. These drivers are responsible for the movement of essential goods and services across the province and beyond. But without adequate experience, new drivers face a steep learning curve when transitioning to larger vehicles. This inexperience can lead to costly accidents, increased risk on the roads and tragic outcomes for those involved.", "By requiring at least one year of driving experience with a class G licence, we’re enhancing drivers’ skills and reducing the risks associated with inexperienced commercial driving. This motion would create a safer environment not only for commercial drivers, but for everyone sharing the road with them.", "Experience matters. It builds better decision-making, smoother handling of unexpected changes and a higher level of road awareness, all of which are crucial in the commercial driving industry. This motion aligns with Ontario’s graduated licensing system, which has proven effective in preparing drivers through a step-by-step process. The proposed waiting period would build on this system by adding a layer of practical, real-world experience before drivers can apply for a class A or class D licence. This would allow drivers more time to adapt to the road’s demands and safely transition to commercial driving.", "When new drivers spend additional time practising on the roads, they become better equipped to handle high-stress situations, make sound decisions and safely navigate Ontario’s complex highways. Our current system prepares drivers well, but there’s room to strengthen it further. A mandatory waiting period would close the gap and bring additional assurance to the safety of our roadways.", "This motion also helps address a concerning trend we have witnessed in recent years: the practice of border-hopping. This occurs when non-residents come to Ontario to quickly obtain a commercial licence, only to exchange it in other jurisdictions. By instituting a waiting period, we would protect the integrity of our licensing system, ensuring that those applying for commercial licences are genuinely committed to meeting Ontario’s standards. This measure reinforces Ontario’s reputation as a province that values experience, preparation and safety above all else.", "I understand that the trucking industry faces several challenges, including a shortage of drivers. This motion is not intended to restrict new drivers from entering the industry, but rather, to prepare them properly. By ensuring that commercial drivers have adequate experience, we’re creating a safer environment for both the public and the drivers themselves.", "A safer trucking industry is an asset to Ontario’s economy. Fewer accidents mean lower insurance costs, less vehicle downtime and reduced operational disruptions. Additionally, the reduced accident rates resulting from better prepared drivers can lessen strain on our emergency services and health care systems. This motion is not only an investment in public safety, but also a wise economic strategy that helps secure the stability and reliability of Ontario’s transportation sector.", "This motion is fully aligned with our government’s commitment to public safety and economic efficiency. Ontario’s roads are experiencing increasing commercial traffic, especially as our economy grows and our communities expand. By implementing an experience requirement, we’re supporting the government’s focus on responsible standards for drivers, prioritizing safety and ensuring that our infrastructure serves Ontarians well.", "This motion also aligns with the government’s dedication to reducing red tape while upholding rigorous safety standards. This is evident in the recent success of the online air brake learning module, which I introduced to replace the traditional air brake knowledge test at renewal. Like this new module, the waiting period proposed in this motion represents another step forward in creating a modern, efficient and safe transportation system for the people of this province.", "As we discuss this motion, it is important to consider sectors with their unique operational needs, like agriculture. Our farmers rely on timely access to commercial vehicles to manage their seasonal demands, and I want to assure them that this motion provides room for appropriate exemptions. Agriculture use may be excluded from the waiting period requirement to ensure Ontario’s farmers can continue their essential work without unnecessary barriers. By tailoring our approach, we can balance safety with flexibility for industries that can contribute so much to our province’s economy.", "In closing, this motion represents a commitment to road safety, public accountability and an improved standard of readiness for commercial drivers. By establishing a one-year waiting period for class A drivers before they can apply for a commercial licence, we’re taking a significant step in ensuring that Ontario’s roads remain safe for all who use them.", "This motion is more than just a policy change. It’s a commitment to giving our drivers the time and experience they need to become skilled and confident commercial drivers. This is about strengthening our road safety, reducing preventable accidents and creating a system where experience is valued and prioritized. It is about building a safer, stronger Ontario, where public safety and economic vitality go hand in hand.", "Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you to all my colleagues for considering this motion. Together, let’s build a legacy of safety, reliability and trust on our roads, one driver at a time.", "1650" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "This motion speaks about how the Ministry of Transportation should explore the establishment or adjustment of a waiting period for drivers holding a class G licence before they can apply for commercial vehicle licences.", "I think it’s a move in the right direction. It certainly doesn’t go far enough. It doesn’t go far enough—I’m saying this because we’ve all seen the report from Marketplace showing the corrupt system. Because we privatized, all of a sudden, they found loopholes; in other words, they’re paying money to bypass MELT. MELT is the training that’s given to truckers to be able to get their licence for truck driving. They’re teaching them just to pass the test, but they’re not getting the whole training.", "Just imagine: We’re on Highway 11 and we have truckers that are not qualified driving on Highways 11, 17 and every highway in Ontario. That is a scary thought, and this is not just a couple of bad players. In French, we say, “C’est systémique dans le système.” It is more than just a couple of bad players. We tend to hear them saying, “Oh, there’s just a few bad players.” It’s not just a few bad players.", "And what are we doing about it? Shouldn’t we get to know who these schools are and pull their licences and bring these drivers that have been licensed and say, “We need to retest you because we have concerns”? They may not be trained enough to drive on our highways. It kills people.", "I introduced Chad’s Law especially because of situations like this. Two big trucks, 18-wheelers, were passing on a double solid line—by the way, in North America, just Ontario and a few states don’t have that law. In the States and Canada, most states and provinces—all provinces have it. It’s law. But in Ontario, we judged that it was not good enough for us, not safe enough for us. It doesn’t make sense. Two solid lines should be law in Ontario. The OPP asked me to bring that bill. It makes sense.", "But we have truck drivers that are—and there are good truck drivers. Don’t get me wrong. We know a majority of them are good truck companies. They train them well. I know I was speaking to the one that was on the report that has a simulator. It makes sense to have simulators. We train pilots. We train feller bunchers in the bush." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "Miners." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Miners—why can’t we train truck drivers the same way? Have a certain amount of hours so we expose them to black ice, so we expose them to freezing rain, so we expose them to slush, so we expose them to snowstorms. That is what we’re dealing with here.", "Is this a step in the right direction? It is. I’m not going to argue that, because at least it gives the minister a time of adjustment, but that doesn’t go far enough. Are you kidding me? Chad almost lost his life, and we have the video of that. Imagine how traumatic that is, seeing that. It is scary what’s happening on our highways with people that are not qualified and are driving, and yet we’re seeing a motion that could have gone a lot further to address what’s happening on our roads. People are dying on our roads. People are dying.", "Il y a du monde qui meurt sur nos routes. C’est inacceptable. C’est pour ça que je dis que c’est comme un petit pansement, un petit pansement pour le problème qu’on traite. On ne guérit pas un cancer avec un « Band-Aid ». C’est systémique dans notre système, comme c’est là. Puis on a un ministère qui dit : « Bien non, on a les routes les plus sécuritaires au monde—dans l’Amérique du Nord. » Je ne devrais pas dire au monde, mais dans l’Amérique du Nord.", "Je peux vous dire, moi, qu’il y a bien du monde qui vont sur les routes 11 puis 17, mais je peux te dire qu’ils ne sont pas gros dans les culottes, rien que pour ne pas user d’un autre terme qu’on connaît tous, là. Mais c’est une réalité qu’on vit au jour le jour dans le nord de l’Ontario.", "On n’a pas de bypass. Quand la route ferme—mon collègue en a parlé un petit peu, mais quand la route ferme, elle est fermée. Moi, j’ai été pris huit heures derrière un camion à cause que, justement, il y avait quelqu’un qui est décédé sur la route. Et on ne peut pas bypasser. Il n’y a pas de détour. On est pris là. Ça, ça veut dire que le Canada au complet est arrêté—au moins, qu’il bypasse par la 17, mais là, il est trop tard. Il est rendu sur la 11.", "Puis quand ça vient, l’hiver, tout le monde passe sur la route 11. Pourquoi? Il y a moins de côtes. C’est moins difficile. Ça sauve de l’essence pour ces compagnies-là. Puis je pense que les assurances demandent aussi qu’ils passent par cette route-là.", "J’ai oublié de dire que je vais aussi partager mon temps avec la députée de Superior North.", "Mais ceci dit, je pense que—écoute, c’est une motion qu’on peut supporter, mais définitivement, ça ne va pas assez loin. Et le ministère le sait. Et le gouvernement le sait. Ce n’est pas un secret de Polichinelle, comme on dit en français. C’est tout le monde qui le sait, puis ils l’ont démontré.", "Ça fait des années que nous, sur ce côté de la Chambre, on dit qu’il y a un problème dans l’industrie du camionnage. Puis le gouvernement—ça tombe dans l’oreille d’un sourd. Bien là, on a les preuves, puis ils ne font encore pas assez. Ils ne font rien. Ils disent : « Ce sont quelques mauvais joueurs. » C’est systémique. On doit réparer ça. Mais la motion est supportable.", "Merci, madame la Présidente." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "The member for Thunder Bay–Superior North." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Lise Vaugeois", "text": [ "We will be supporting this bill and are glad the government is finally acting on a recommendation of the Ontario Trucking Association and other advocates for road safety, such as Truckers for Safer Highways. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to have confidence that this will result in the significant changes that are needed.", "First, the privatization of DriveTest: The recent Auditor General’s report is clear that the ministry’s failure to monitor and crack down on fraud taking place at DriveTest centres is undermining safety on our roads.", "Nonetheless, in 2023, the ministry awarded a new contract to the same service provider, Serco, through a non-competitive process. Serco is a powerful international corporation making profits from practices that put the safety of examiners, new drivers and all road users at risk. As one Serco employee put it, “We should not be pressured to manufacture the outcome of tests,” but they are pressured to fit in more tests per hour. Examiners have near-death experiences daily, are forced to use dangerously unfit vehicles and are told to pass drivers who should be failed. Put that together with the scams that skip the training but give out certificates so that people can pay lower insurance rates, where they teach you just enough to pass the test on a specific route with a specific DriveTest location, and you have a disastrous number of drivers with G licences who should not be on the road.", "Next, the training of commercial drivers: What good will it do if the G licence isn’t legitimate, and the subsequent commercial licence isn’t legitimate? Why are you not protecting the lives of new drivers and all other road users by making absolutely certain they are receiving the training they need? You have a responsibility to make sure that these new drivers are trained well, have received the mechanical training to look after their vehicles, know how to tie down their loads, are not forced to drive unfit vehicles and are not subject to wage theft. When rogue companies get caught, they just shut down and rebrand as a new company, and the government is doing nothing about this.", "Next, new inspection stations: Data shows that there are only half the needed transportation enforcement officers in Ontario, and this was the case long before COVID. It’s nothing new.", "The result: The $30-million station in my riding is rarely open. It is actually staffed by people from southern Ontario, who are flown up at great expense, put up in hotels and paid for meals and overtime.", "The ministry can’t recruit and retain inspectors because the wages do not reflect the level of danger and responsibility of the job. These officers are not only dealing with drivers, some of whom should not be on the road, but they are also dealing with criminal networks carrying stolen vehicles, and often, the nearest OPP backup is an hour away.", "To be clear, the problems of bad driving on our highways are not just coming from new drivers. The most recent horrendous accident near Loon Lake Road was a driver from a local trucking company with a poor reputation passing over a double yellow line in a construction zone and likely under the influence. If this driver had been pulled over at an inspection station, would this company and driver still be in business? I doubt it.", "Locals also tell me that when the inspection station is open, truck drivers hang out at the Flying J just down the road from the inspection station, and they wait there until the station is closed again. The station needs to be open 24/7, but for this to happen, the government must pay staff appropriately so that there’s a full complement of transportation enforcement officers in Ontario.", "1700", "Finally, the scourge of Driver Inc.: Since 2018, governments have known that companies that pretend their employees are self-employed undercut legitimate businesses by—according to the Ontario Trucking Association—corporate and personal tax evasion, labour misclassification, misrepresentation of fleet registrations, insurance irregularities, under-reporting of vehicle use and fuel consumption and, in some cases, forced labour through various abuses of immigration programs.", "The market distortion of Driver Inc. has directly resulted in the closure of a much-respected trucking business in Thunder Bay. Driver Inc. companies are offering mileage rates based on the year 2000. The result for this local company: They lost eight to 10 loads a day of a major contract coming out of Toronto and going to northern communities. Now this contract is going to a rogue company that probably pays its workers next to nothing. This has led to the loss of local jobs, losses to our local tax base, losses to provincial and federal taxes, losses to the WSIB and, of course, most importantly, losses of jobs and this company from our community. The province is not addressing this scam either.", "The people of Ontario deserve so much more from this government. We will, however, be supporting this bill because, even though it is inadequate, it does finally acknowledge that there are serious problems regarding safety on our roads and highways, and this is at least a beginning towards addressing that. Thank you." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Deepak Anand", "text": [ "As always, I’m deeply honoured to be speaking in support of the private member’s motion focused on advancing road safety across Ontario and ensuring that commercial drivers are fully prepared to meet the highest standards on our roads on a day that I’m actually going to be looking forward—today is my nomination for the third general election. No day could be better than this.", "Before I begin, I would like to take a moment to recognize the approaching Remembrance Day to honour the brave men and women who have served and sacrificed for the freedom that we are enjoying today. This weekend I had the pleasure of attending the 17th annual Sikh Remembrance Day Ceremony at the military grave of World War I hero Private Buckam Singh, organized by the Sikh museum alongside my colleague MPP Jess Dixon. As we come together, let’s remember our heroes’ legacy of peace, resilience and unity that they have gifted to us. We are forever indebted.", "Back to the motion, Madam Speaker: The motion requests the Minister of Transportation to consider implementing a mandatory waiting period for class G licence holders before they can even apply for a commercial licence. Technically speaking, it is a motion that the wonderful member from Brampton West—it’s another way of listening to his residents and acting on it and giving back to the community he’s serving, so a big round of applause for our member from Brampton West.", "This proposed waiting period is essential, allowing drivers to gain valuable experience in operating standard vehicles before progressing to larger, more complex commercial ones. Look at the data: In 2022, the Ontario Provincial Police reported 9,110 transport truck-related collisions, marking the highest provincial total in over 10 years. It’s another example—looking at the data, when you see a trend going up—of the member, rather than looking at the data, he decided to take action.", "According to the OPP, these incidents, which made up around 12% of the total collisions in 2022, led to 71 fatalities, most of which were preventable. Those are not just 71 lives, they are the 71 families, which were affected directly, and maybe over 700 families affected indirectly. This alarming trend highlights the need for targeted measures to improve road safety, especially when we talk about residents of Mississauga–Malton. Many of my constituents have expressed their concerns about commercial traffic licences.", "The Insurance Bureau of Canada had MNP, a professional services firm, analyze the factors affecting insurance costs for commercial truck operators. MNP found that drivers with less training and experience had a higher likelihood of collision and costly claims compared to those with more extensive training and experience. So it’s not just saving lives; it is actually helping those who are alive and reducing the cost of their living and doing business. This motion seeks to directly address those concerns by proposing a waiting period to allow drivers to build their skills, confidence and situational awareness, which are all crucial for safe commercial driving.", "Madam Speaker, Ontario’s licensing system has always aimed to balance efficiency and safety, particularly through initiatives like the graduated licensing system. By aligning these approaches, we are helping our people of Ontario. A safer trucking industry means fewer accidents, reduced insurance costs and a lighter load on emergency response resources. By establishing a one-year waiting period, we are investing in a safer, stronger Ontario. So I will urge all the members to support the member from Brampton West." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Prabmeet Singh Sarkaria", "text": [ "I want to start by first thanking my colleague MPP Amarjot Sandhu from Brampton West for bringing this motion forward. In fact, he has always been a strong advocate on behalf of the trucking industry. I remember last year when he advocated, through a PMB as well, the removal of the air brake endorsement, which has helped save hundreds and thousands of hours for truck drivers across this province.", "This now builds on what we have been hearing from the industry for quite some time now. We have some of the safest roads in all of North America and in the world right here in Ontario. We’re very proud of our highways, our roads, the engineers that have built them. I’m very proud of our MTO inspectors and enforcement officers who work day and night protecting our roads, keeping our roads safe. But ultimately, what this motion is exploring and looking at is putting in a minimum of a one-year G driver’s licence experience before granting or allowing an individual to drive a truck.", "That is important for many reasons, Madam Speaker. One of those reasons is familiarity with our roads. It’s about making sure that the younger drivers or those who come to the province of Ontario who might not know or appreciate different weather conditions, especially when we speak about Highway 11/17 and the harsh winters that we face, that they have an ability to drive in those conditions before they are able to apply for a commercial licence vehicle.", "I believe it also helps address the issue of non-residents, which we have heard about in the past from many in the industry, who are using a loophole to try and work using and getting a commercial truck licence in this province. What that does is, for example, a visitor comes into this province, doesn’t have status, is able to get a commercial vehicle licence and then drives with an individual or a company that is not following the rules, unfortunately. This would then also prevent those individuals, who would require a year’s worth of experience before being able to apply for a driver’s licence.", "Ultimately, we’re cracking down on bad actors and we’re cracking down on safety here and ensuring that we have safer roads, but we’re also ensuring that those who then do become drivers are doing so in a way that is safe, with experience and with the ability to keep our roads moving across this province.", "We have a significant commitment to the trucking industry, whether it’s fighting the carbon tax, whether it’s building Highway 413, building the Bradford Bypass, investing in more infrastructure, like a $30-million new station in Shuniah and all the way up in Thunder Bay or whether it’s increasing enforcement officers across this province. We will always do whatever we can to support the trucking industry, the truck drivers and the safety and integrity of our system, and look at measures that continue to support that.", "I once again want to thank my colleague from Brampton West for his advocacy, for always listening to our commercial truck drivers and bringing this forward.", "1710" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Hardeep Singh Grewal", "text": [ "It’s great to rise and talk about my colleague from Brampton West’s motion for introducing a waiting period before getting a commercial vehicle licence. I think he’s doing a great job for the community. He brought a similar motion earlier when it came to supporting truck drivers and supporting the industry. I think he’s doing an amazing job listening to his constituents and bringing meaningful motions here into the House that make a real impact to the way our society operates and works. So thank you, the member from Brampton West, for the great work that you do.", "Speaking to this particular bill, I think it’s a great idea because today, in our new world that we live in, we’re seeing a lot of new immigration, and with that comes a new energetic workforce that is ready to work and make Ontario thrive and make it the powerhouse that we are. With that, we want to ensure that our drivers that are on the roads come in and they have the experience necessary as they progress. I think the motion, which requires a time limitation before they get their commercial vehicle licence, really gives them that opportunity to get adjusted to our roads, to the way things operate, and to understand the best and the safest practices.", "When I was the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Transportation, I got the opportunity to learn a lot about Ontario’s transportation network. We have the safest roads in Ontario for a reason. Even though we have some of the rigorous testing requirements to ensure that the drivers we put on the roads are safe drivers, they’re responsible drivers, this adds an additional measure to support that.", "I really thank the member from Brampton West for bringing this into the House. The debate that we’re having today is amazing because, at the end of the day, we want to ensure that all Ontarians are protected, our roads are safe, and we’re ensuring that the life everybody has is safe on the road—because driving is not a right, Speaker. Driving is a privilege, and we want to ensure that that privilege involves safety. We want to ensure that nobody gets injured on the roads. I really feel like this waiting period is going to be very beneficial for all of us.", "I also like the fact that he included an exemption for our members of northern Ontario, or agricultural Ontario, because they, at a young age, start operating farm equipment. They start working with their parents, whether it’s their family business or whether they’re working with somebody else, and they generate experience at a much younger age. That exemption that you’ve put in there for agriculture farm workers is really amazing as well, so it doesn’t impact their ability to go in and get their farming—so they can use that experience that they’ve gained in the farming industry when they’re operating these commercial vehicles. I know a lot of the members in this House appreciate that exemption that you’ve put in here.", "The reality is, handling a commercial vehicle, whether it’s a large truck or bus, requires a far greater level of skill, experience and judgment, rather than a standard passenger vehicle. By mandating drivers to have that waiting exemption or waiting period put in their experience before testing for a commercial licence, we’re giving them the crucial time to acclimate to Ontario’s road and conditions and build their skills, give them a little bit of extra confidence, and then enter the commercial world, because we do know that driving a truck is not an easy task.", "Our commercial operators are extremely hard workers. They ensure our goods make it to the marketplace. It’s absolutely because of them that we have food on our tables to eat every single day. It’s a great industry. We thank them for their hard work, and I thank the member for introducing this motion to make it that much safer to be a truck operator." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Adil Shamji", "text": [ "Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to rise in this chamber and discuss this very important issue. I also want to acknowledge the work of the member for Brampton West, the Minister of Transportation, the member for Brampton East—for their comments on this.", "I recognize that between the member of Brampton West and Brampton East, we have two of the top 10 ridings in the province of unattached patients without a family doctor—27,500 people in the member for Brampton West’s riding and 30,000 in the member for Brampton East’s riding. I do find it a little bit peculiar that amidst such a health care crisis in the midst of their own ridings, they’re choosing instead to focus on transportation.", "That being said, I do realize that this is a problem, that there has been significant inaction on the part of the government, including by putting forward this motion. And so, I’m glad to have the opportunity to articulate my thoughts on this and some of the steps that need to be taken in order to move forward.", "First, this has been put forward by a government member, so I do find it incredibly peculiar that this was brought forward as a motion. The government doesn’t need to present motions. If they have a concern with the transportation and trucking licensing process, they can just walk over to the Minister of Transportation and say, “This needs to change.”", "A motion is symbolic. The way it is being proposed by the government member, it is simply passing time and representing a distraction from the issues that matter most, such as the massive number of patients without family doctors in these members’ ridings.", "Now, before we even talk about the length of time between getting a G licence and getting a more advanced licence, such as an A or D licence, I want to reflect a little bit on just some of the shortcomings in getting a G licence in the first place.", "In my riding of Don Valley East, we have a DriveTest centre, the Toronto Metro East DriveTest Centre, and there has been an issue that I have flagged repeatedly to the Minister of Transportation on three separate occasions and have flagged to the Ministry of Transportation, and it is this: The route that is taken to test for G licences is never switched. For years now, it has always been the same route. So much so, that for years now, that route has been published online as a YouTube video and as you go down the list of comments people are literally saying, “Thank you very much for posting this video. It is still the same route.”", "I have constituents on Cornerbrook Drive who, despite, again, my efforts to reach out to the Ministry of Transportation and the Minister of Transportation—on three separate occasions—repeatedly tell me that there are people who practise the route over and over and over again, completely defeating the purpose of testing for a G licence in the first place—because it is not a blind test—and, of course, creating safety concerns for my constituents who live on Cornerbrook Drive. Yet, this government refuses to do anything about it at all—three times to the Minister of Transportation and no action.", "I’ve already established that the current process for getting a G licence is already flawed. But assuming that it wasn’t, now apparently, waiting an unspecified amount of time before proceeding to get an A or D licence will all of a sudden solve this problem. But what is the standard during this unknown waiting period? Is there a requirement not to have had any accidents, not to have had any tickets, not to log your hours or report them to a commercial driving lesson organization? There are no such requirements for this.", "In fact, once you do—let’s say this arbitrary period is passed, and as I mentioned, it doesn’t have any requirements—then you go for your advanced licence test, an A, AZ or D licence. Well, CBC Marketplace recently pointed out that the testing process for commercial A, AZ and D licences is fraught with corruption, fraud and bribery and it’s also something that is echoed by the Ontario Trucking Association, which says, “Our board agrees it is time to rethink how commercial driver training and licensing are addressed in Ontario.”", "Everyone is calling for a change, meaningful change—not words, but real action—and there is nothing in this motion that supports that.", "The final thing that I will say: My excellent colleague MPP Hsu from Kingston and the Islands highlights on behalf of his constituents that there have been numerous complaints concerning dangerous and damaging behaviours from truck drivers—multiple accidents as recently as Halloween that have resulted in fatal collisions. There have been repeated calls to action in order to make sure that the—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Thank you. We’re out of time.", "I’m going to go back to the member from Brampton West for a two-minute closure statement." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Amarjot Sandhu", "text": [ "I would like to thank the members from Mushkegowuk–James Bay, Thunder Bay–Superior North, Mississauga–Malton, Brampton East and most importantly, the Minister of Transportation for his unwavering commitment and support to this private member’s motion.", "Thank you to the member from Don Valley East, also, even though I don’t agree with the remarks regarding this bill, because when they were in power for the last 15 years, they did nothing to enhance the safety on our roads. The member also speaks about the health care issues. They did nothing. They trained fewer doctors when they were in power. They never built enough medical schools when they were in power.", "But coming back to the bill, I’ve been hearing from the community from the last six years since I’ve been elected that road safety, especially on highways, is one of our residents’ top priorities. And by giving new drivers the chance to gain valuable experience, we are ensuring that those behind the wheels of large trucks are more prepared, confident and equipped to navigate our roads safely.", "Madam Speaker, this is about protecting Ontarians. This is about safety. This is about reducing accidents and building a safer future for our families. Again, as I said, this motion represents a commitment to road safety, public accountability and an improved standard of readiness for commercial drivers.", "I want to thank all the members for their support on this private member’s motion." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "The time provided for private members’ public business has expired.", "Mr. Sandhu has moved private member’s notice of motion number 131. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried. I declare the motion carried.", "Motion agreed to." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "All matters relating to private members’ public business having been completed, this House stands adjourned until 9 a.m. on Wednesday, November 6, 2024.", "The House adjourned at 1721.", "", "", "", "" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "Speaker, under the new leadership of president and CEO Julie Caffin and board chair James Eastwood, Brockville General Hospital is in good hands.", "But today I want to go back 2017 when our cherished community hospital was struggling. Enter Nick Vlacholias as president and CEO and Jim Cooper as board chair. Brockville general’s transformation since then into one of the best hospitals anywhere is remarkable. We’ve opened a new tower and we’re planning on our next redevelopment. Instead of closing programs, we opened a new MRI, and pediatric surgeries have returned thanks to an investment from our government and a partnership with CHEO. The transformation is a testament to the hard work of the board, the volunteers and staff—all made possible by Nick and Jim’s leadership and commitment to communication, staff well-being and patient care.", "Nick’s impact goes beyond the Brockville General Hospital. His financial insights helped me make the case to our government to fix the hospital’s funding formula, stabilizing operations at medium-sized hospitals across Ontario.", "Earlier this year, Jim’s term as board chair ended and, today, Nick begins a new chapter in his career at London Health Sciences Centre. The member for Elgin–Middlesex–London is so fortunate to have him.", "To the dynamic duo of Nick and Jim, I want to say thank you. Your legacy is stronger for BGH, one that is ready to be there for patients and families for generations to come." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Jeff Burch", "text": [ "This weekend, the Hope Centre, Open Arms Mission and the Salvation Army hosted their annual food drive in Welland at Club Richelieu. On Saturday, I stopped by to thank the 500 volunteers and community members who came together to help sort donations. They’ve already raised an impressive $32,000 and are hoping to reach $35,000 by the end of month.", "According to recent statistics, one in 10 Welland residents accessed a food bank within the last year—30% of those were children. The need in Welland has never been greater due a combination of factors, most notably, the increased cost of living in this province, making life less and less affordable, including the price of rent, utilities and groceries.", "1020", "Jennifer Sinclair, community engagement coordinator for the Hope Centre in Welland, recently spoke to the media about the crisis, stating, “Our numbers are just skyrocketing. There has been about a 100% increase since last year.”", "Local food banks, once a temporary resource, have now become essential for many citizens in Welland and in many places across the province. This government is failing to deliver on the basics, including social service funding that has been frozen for three years. This province needs to step up now to help those struggling with the basics like housing, health care and groceries. We can do better." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Hardeep Singh Grewal", "text": [ "I’m very excited today because I have great news for Bramptonians. Under the leadership of Premier Ford, our government is committed to building the great infrastructure that Ontario needs and the infrastructure that Brampton needs. As a result, we’re proud to announce that William Osler Health System has officially released their request for proposals on the conversion of Peel Memorial Hospital into Brampton’s second full-service hospital.", "In partnership with Infrastructure Ontario, this announcement makes it one step closer to start early works in construction and start construction by spring 2025. Under the leadership of Premier Ford, Brampton will never again be left behind. We’ve seen more investment from this government in the past six years than the previous government’s decade in power.", "With this Premier at the helm, we’re going to continue to deliver for the residents of Brampton and Ontario, as Ontario recognizes the need to build priority highways faster, reduce gridlock as our province continues to flourish and grow. That’s why our government introduced Bill 212, Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act. That includes the removal of bike lanes in high-traffic areas, reducing gridlock and making it easier for people to commute around this province.", "Our work doesn’t end there. We’re also making the largest investment in public transit in Ontario’s history with the Mississauga loop, the Brampton LRT and new subways being built in Toronto. We’re expanding public transit like Ontario has never seen before and we’re saving money. We’re making it more affordable to use public transit with the introduction of One Fare, saving transit riders up to $1,600 a year—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you very much. Appreciate it.", "The next member’s statement." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Jennifer K. French", "text": [ "Everyone should be able to count on government to protect our vehicles, but across Ontario, people are experiencing auto theft every day. Car thieves are gaming the system to get new VINs for stolen vehicles at ServiceOntario counters. Other provinces are taking action to protect their VIN registries, but Ontario is leaving criminals a significant loophole. For years, this government has been advised by law enforcement and insurance experts to prevent re-VINing.", "Ford’s announcement of more reactive penalties does little to close the loophole and protect the legitimacy of our VIN registry. We need a dedicated strategy for ServiceOntario to investigate VINs to ensure every vehicle on the road is legitimate. That’s the kind of proactive solution that New Democrats bring to table.", "Why is this government incapable of being proactive to guard the integrity of Ontario’s VIN database? The PCs could reach for solutions and suggestions, but instead they’re focused on penalties after the crime. This government must reassure drivers that we have a strong system, an audit process and a database that won’t allow criminals to get stolen vehicles into our system and so easily legitimized.", "While other jurisdictions are tackling this, Ontario is hiding its head in the glovebox and turning our province into an express lane for VIN fraud. Ontario is becoming a destination for car thieves. We deserve better. We have to get serious about auto theft. I’m calling on this government to get it in gear and protect our VINs." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Zee Hamid", "text": [ "Yesterday, I had the honour of attending a touching Remembrance Day ceremony at Haltonville war memorial in the former township of Nassagaweya in my riding of Milton. As we gathered to pay tribute, we reflected on the immense sacrifices made by whose who fought valiantly in the Great Wars and the Korean War.", "I’ve attended Remembrance Day events before, both as a private citizen and as a Milton councillor, but attending on behalf of the province of Ontario and placing the wreath was a uniquely emotional experience. This solemn occasion reminds us of the courage and resilience displayed by our service men and women who selflessly dedicated their lives to protect our freedom. Each name inscribed on the memorial stands for a story of bravery, loss and love echoing through generations.", "I wanted to dedicate my statement today not just to the men who came from Nassagaweya and sacrificed their lives, but all brave men and women across Ontario and our great nation of Canada, whether they come back home or not. Let us not only remember their courage and sacrifice, but let’s also commit to upholding the values they fought for: peace, democracy and freedom. Today, we honour their legacy by ensuring their stories live on in our hearts and in our actions. Lest we forget." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "Today, I rise to honour our veterans, the men and women who have served, those who have been wounded, those who made the ultimate sacrifice, active service members and all of their families.", "Many of us will attend services in our communities.In Hamilton, the inaugural Indigenous Veteran’s Day Service will be held November 8 at The Eagles Among Us monument at Battlefield Park in Stoney Creek. I’m honoured to be attending, as current and past Indigenous sacrifices of this land will be shared and will be reflected on.", "On November 10, a parade of Hamilton veterans, garrison units and cadet corps will leave John Foote V.C. armouries and proceed to Veterans’ Place, a cenotaph at Gore Park. It is an honour to be a part of the garrison parade and service, remembering our veterans and peacekeepers. On November 11, we will honour our veterans at the Canadian Legion, Branch 163 in Hamilton Mountain Remembrance Day services.", "I am proud of my ongoing commitment to our veterans in our communities. With many veterans returning home, they are faced with many barriers accessing health care, mental health care, stable housing, employment services and programs that help them on their healing journey. We must not lose sight of the importance to protect our veterans as they have protected us and our freedoms.", "We are grateful for many veterans and active service members who engage in community service and educate and encourage our future generations. You teach, through your actions, the importance of resilience, of camaraderie and that we must help one another in times of need. Your bravery, courage and sacrifices will always be remembered. Lest we forget." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Ernie Hardeman", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, today marks the start of Remembrance Week. It is an honour to commemorate the brave men and women who currently serve, have served or have sacrificed their lives for our country. I had the pleasure of attending two Armistice Day dinners over the weekend in Beachville and Woodstock, and I’m always humbled to see the love our veterans have for Canada.", "One of the enduring symbols of Remembrance Day is the poppy, immortalized in Canadian Lieutenant-Colonel John McCrae’s poem In Flanders Fields, which was written during the First World War. As we wear the poppy on our left lapel, over the heart, it reminds us of the cost of war, but also of the duty of the living to carry the legacy of those who have fallen.", "It also shows how Remembrance Day will always be linked to the Great War. When it was first observed in 1919 as Armistice Day, it was to commemorate the armistice agreement between Germany and the Allied powers that went into effect on November 11, 1918, at 11 a.m. In 1931, the Canadian government changed the name to Remembrance Day to emphasize that we should remember the fallen soldiers of all conflicts, including those of the First World War.", "1030", "On November 11, let us remember those who served, those who sacrificed and those who continue to protect the values that we hold dear by wearing a poppy and donating to the local legion. Lest we forget." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "Everybody knows about the incredible investments being made in the automotive industry in the province of Ontario. These investments are going to be a boon not only for manufacturers, but also in the mining industry, especially in the area of critical minerals.", "But it also means that older manufacturing processes are going to go away and we’re going to have new ones, and that means job disruption. Workers have to adapt. There’s a great union that’s going to help them adapt, and that union is called Unifor. Unifor is helping its members upskill and retrain, teaching them new skills such as battery chemistry, process overview, lean manufacturing, mechanical machinery, electronics, pneumatics and robotics. That’s a great training program for the members of this union, and it’s all made possible in a partnership between Unifor and the government of Ontario, which has provided a grant in the amount of $955,000 to help retrain auto workers.", "I want to thank the Premier and I want to thank the Minister of Labour for providing this great program that’s helping men and women in Unifor retrain and build the mighty auto industry in the province of Ontario." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Natalie Pierre", "text": [ "Last month, I had the privilege of attending an announcement at the Centre for Skills Development in my riding of Burlington. Alongside the Minister of Women’s Social and Economic Opportunity, we highlighted the Women’s Economic Security Program, which equips women with the training needed to increase workforce participation and achieve financial independence. I witnessed first-hand the incredible partnerships between women-centred organizations, educational institutions and local businesses that make this program possible. This initiative has already empowered thousands of women to start businesses and advance their education and training.", "I’m excited to announce that our government is investing up to $1.18 million over the next three years in the Centre for Skills Development. This investment will help the Women’s Economic Security Program, with a specific focus on enhanced general carpentry training.", "Investing in programs like these breaks down barriers and builds a future where diversity drives progress and innovation. Thanks to this government investment, we are fostering a skilled workforce that can meet the demands of our growing industries, impacting both the current labour force and future generations." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "That concludes our members’ statements for this morning.", "" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "This morning, Conceivable Dreams had a wonderful breakfast. I would like to thank Dr. Garbedian and Dr. Garcia for taking the trip down to come see us.", "WeRPN is also at Queen’s Park. They’ll be inviting everybody over for lunch in 228. I’d like to introduce their CEO, Dianne Martin, as well as their president, Angela Corneil, and their past president, Dickon Worsley. Welcome to Queen’s Park, ladies and gentlemen." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Jill Dunlop", "text": [ "I would like to welcome Marian Knutson, the mother of page Ziggy from my riding of Simcoe North. Welcome to Queen’s Park." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "I want to extend a welcome to union leaders from Unifor: Dan Valente, Dirk Tolman, Rob Roca, Shane Horn, Doug Carter, Stephanie Cronin, Ryan Coombs and Wally Ewanicke. They’re here to launch a campaign to stop leakage in natural gas pipes in Ontario.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats. Please take your seats. We haven’t got a lot of time.", "The member for Beaches–East York." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon", "text": [ "Good morning, everyone. It’s always great to see you in the House.", "I’d like to acknowledge today that we have the Turkish consul general, Can Yoldaş, here visiting us, with the president of Federation of Canadian Turkish Associations, Sima Acan; director Ali Demircan; and Gizem Yilmaz. Hoş geldiniz. Welcome.", "Applause." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon", "text": [ "We’ll see everyone at the Turkish flag-raising today at 12:15.", "I’d like to introduce the powerful people from the awesome Association of Consulting Engineering Companies in Ontario: a beautiful Beaches–East York resident, acrobatic Andrew Hurd; dynamite David O’Sullivan; magnificent Michael De Michele; and jazzy Jason Stahl. Thanks for building Ontario. Welcome to your House." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Caroline Mulroney", "text": [ "Speaker, I’m pleased to welcome the Honourable Capri Cafaro, the former minority leader of the Ohio Senate, who served in the Ohio General Assembly for 10 years and is now a TV and radio host, both here and in America. Welcome to Queen’s Park." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I have somebody tuning in on live broadcast who is very special to me today. It’s my brother, Adam Davidson-Harden, a public school teacher from Kingston who turns 50 today. Happy birthday, bro, and thank you for all you do for students." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Stephen Blais", "text": [ "I’d like to welcome representatives from the Registered Practical Nurses Association of Ontario, or WeRPN, to Queen’s Park. I would like to specifically recognize Sharon Hunter, who sits on the board; Hailey Yan, who is a student nurse; and Ruth Baker, who is a registered practical nurse. Thank you for all the hard work that you do to help register practical nurses in our communities. I look forward to having a chat with you later this afternoon." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Christine Hogarth", "text": [ "It is absolutely a privilege and an honour to introduce Mr. Morley Kells, who was an MPP here in this House; Mr. Doug Holyday, also a former MPP in this House; and one of my staff members, Brad Kells, who does a wonderful job everyday. Gentlemen, it is an honour to follow in your footsteps. Welcome." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Jeff Burch", "text": [ "I’d like to welcome Emily McIntosh from Women of Ontario Say No and colleagues to Queen’s Park.", "Also, I would like to welcome my constituency assistant, Maddison Harris from Welland, to Queen’s Park.", "I’d also like to wish my wonderful wife a happy birthday today." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Todd J. McCarthy", "text": [ "I want to welcome to the House today special guests from the great, beautiful town of Port Perry in my riding of Durham, Johnathan van Bilsen and Donna van Bilsen. Welcome to your House." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "I’d like to continue with introduction of visitors, unless there’s an objection.", "The member for London North Centre." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Terence Kernaghan", "text": [ "It’s my honour to welcome individuals from the Association of Consulting Engineering Companies-Ontario: Ghina Annan, Jason Stahl, David Heska, Joshua Battison and Doug DeRabbie. I encourage all members to take in their reception from 5 p.m. in rooms 228 and 230." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "It is my honour to welcome, from Conceivable Dreams, members who will be having meetings and of course their breakfast event today: Zane Colt.", "And of course, from WeRPN, I’d like to welcome Dianne Martin, the CEO, Angela Corneil, the president, and WeRPN staff and members. I’m looking forward to your meetings today.", "1040" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Natalia Kusendova-Bashta", "text": [ "I too would like to welcome WeRPN—RPNs play a very important role in long-term care—CEO Dianne Martin, as well as a constituent of mine, an RPN, Jennifer McCauley. I look forward to seeing you at the lunch reception this afternoon." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I just want to add my brief thanks to Doug DeRabbie and the engineers who are here today; WeRPN who is here today; and the great folks from Unifor who keep us safe in their pipeline industry here in Ontario. We just thank you all for being here. It’s your House." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Adil Shamji", "text": [ "Good morning, everyone. It gives me immense pleasure to welcome WeRPN to the Legislature today. They represent 60,000 registered practical nurses, and I wanted to extend a very special warm welcome to Dianne Martin, their chief executive officer; as well as Angela Corneil, their president; and all of the many members who are in attendance today who I look forward to engaging with and hearing from as the day progresses. Thank you and welcome." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Dave Smith", "text": [ "I would like to welcome from the great riding of God’s country, Peterborough–Kawartha, Canadian veteran and UN peacekeeper Corporal Bill Steedman." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "I do want to acknowledge all our great veterans. I know there’s going to be a great announcement today, so thank you for your service and your ongoing service.", "A couple other people: I know the great member from Etobicoke–Lakeshore mentioned it already, but I have to acknowledge two good friends, former MPP Morley Kells—Morley, I don’t know where you are—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "Oh, there you are. You’re in the lower deck. You got special treatment down there. Good to see you, Morley—a heck of a lacrosse player as well.", "And his good pal, Doug Holyday. Doug introduced our family to politics—don’t blame him; blame Bob Rae, because that’s the reason we got into politics.", "Not only was Doug Holyday a city councillor in the city of Etobicoke, he became the great mayor of the state of Etobicoke, then went on to be the deputy mayor of the city of Toronto as well—did an incredible job—and then went on to be an MPP. Thank you for your years of public service, Doug.", "I don’t know, this guy is still a heck of a hockey player. He still straps on the skates. What are you, about 110 now, Doug? You’re still strapping on—I love the guy. I sat beside him for four years. I love his family. God bless you." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Good morning to everyone here. It gives me great honour to introduce three special people who are here in the House today: first off, my wife, Paula Hughes; my sister Carla Bethlenfalvy; and, last but not least, the aforementioned from the fall economic statement, having travelled all the way from Europe—lest you think I’ve a big ego and am immodest—I welcome to the House Peter Bethlenfalvy. Thank you being here today." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Andrew Dowie", "text": [ "It’s always a privilege when I get to welcome some fellow engineers to the House. Many have been acknowledged already, but I’d like to acknowledge David Heska, Peter Lejcar, Chris Metaxas, David O’Sullivan, Sean Partington, Serge Ristic, Jason Stahl, Jane Wilson, Martino Fanfani, Navan Chawla, Ioana Babus, Stephanie Speroni, David Chamberlain, Andrew Hurd, Laura Lambie and Doug DeRabbie from the Association of Consulting Engineering Companies-Ontario. Welcome to Queen’s Park.", "I also want to give a shout out for two residents from Windsor who are here: Sarrah and Mike Fisher. Welcome to Queen’s Park." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Graham McGregor", "text": [ "This afternoon I’ll be tabling a bill; we’ve got a lot of folks here to support it. One of my colleagues will be calling out the organizations, but I want to give a shout out to—we have many active servicepeople and veterans who are here today in the gallery, and I want to make sure we give them a warm round of applause: Shekhar Gothi, Julian Chapman, Rob Francis, Roland Gossage, Phil Ralph, Steven Boychyn, Daryll Cathcart, Curtis Houston, Allan Roy, Aaron Dale, Brian Patterson, André Levesque, Andrew Wilder, Chris Lock,Peter McLaurin, John Featherington, William Law and Russ Dalton.", "Thank you very much for your service." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Michael Parsa", "text": [ "I’m very pleased to introduce today’s page captain, from the great riding of Aurora–Oak Ridges–Richmond Hill: Rishabh Goel. Mr. Speaker, visiting us today are his parents, Vinay and Veenu; his older brother and a former page, right here, Rohan; and his sister Roshni.", "Welcome to Queen’s Park. Thank you so much for everything you do in the riding." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Laura Smith", "text": [ "I want to echo my colleague’s thoughts and extend my sincere gratitude to all the veterans here today.", "I also want to thank the organizations supporting veterans and their military families at every stage in their journey, as well as those raising awareness of the contributions the brave men and women in uniform have made over the years.", "Today, we are so honoured to welcome Royal Canadian Legion, True Patriot Love, Together We Stand, Canadian Forces Morale and Welfare Services, Toronto Military Family Resource Centre, Vimy Foundation, Historica Canada, Wounded Warriors, Helmets to Hardhats, Coding for Veterans, Commissionaires, the Roland Gossage Foundation, and Boilermakers International.", "Thank you for your hard work and for taking the time to be here today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.", "Applause." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Thornhill, to conclude?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Laura Smith", "text": [ "I would be remiss if I did not welcome my new executive assistant, Flora Khani, to the Legislature for her first time today.", "Welcome to Queen’s Park." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "That concludes our introduction of visitors for this morning.", "I want to acknowledge that we are meeting on lands traditionally inhabited by Indigenous peoples. We pay our respects to the many Indigenous nations who gathered here and who continue to gather here, including the Mississaugas of the Credit. Meegwetch.", "This being the first sitting Monday of the month, I ask everyone to rise now for the singing of the Canadian national anthem and the royal anthem, which will be led off for us by the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke.", "Singing of the national anthem / Chant de l’hymne national.", "Singing of the royal anthem / Chant de l’hymne royal." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members may take their seats.", "1050" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "I recognize the member for Kiiwetinoong on a point of order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Sol Mamakwa", "text": [ "Meegwetch, Speaker. I’d like to ask for a moment of silence. We just got word that Murray Sinclair, the groundbreaking Indigenous lawyer who had led the inquiries that exposed racial injustice and redefined how Canadians see Indian residential schools, died today. I would like to acknowledge his death by having a moment of silence." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Kiiwetinoong is seeking the unanimous consent of the House for a moment of silence in memory of the Honourable Murray Sinclair. Agreed? Agreed.", "Members will please rise.", "The House observed a moment’s silence." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members may take their seats." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "This question is for the Premier. The fall economic statement showed a pretty bleak outlook for housing in our province. Housing starts are down, and this government is nowhere near being able to meet their own targets. They wasted years chasing schemes, all while more people saw the dream of owning a home slide away or went from eviction to encampment.", "Our plan, the NDP’s Homes Ontario plan, would realize the human right to housing, at least doubling the supply of permanently affordable housing. Will the government support this important step in getting government back in the business of building housing again?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "To reply, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Paul Calandra", "text": [ "I appreciate the opportunity to rise. Let me just categorically say that, absolutely not, we will not be supporting the motion that was brought forward by the Leader of the Opposition today.", "Let me just say this, Mr. Speaker, it is motions like that, it is policies like that, that motivated me to get into office in the first place. Let me tell you, the moment that the government thinks that a socialist party thinks that they can do a better job of building homes than the private sector, that is when we are in trouble, because we have seen this before. The Premier talked about how the Bob Rae government got him into politics. For millions and millions of Ontarians it was that government that began the process of people re-evaluating the dream of home ownership.", "Since we have come into office, we have done everything possible to remove the obstacles that were put in the way by the Liberals and the NDP. Before the interest rate hikes, we were building homes at a record pace in the province of Ontario, and we will do that again." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "I think the minister needs to go back to the history books and learn a little bit about the history of governments for many generations building homes and housing for people in this province.", "This government promised to build 1.5 million homes by 2031. But every year since they made that promise, they have failed to meet their own targets. The government will miss their housing target again this year—40,000 not being built. That’s on top of the 20,000 homes that they didn’t build last year. That’s based on their own reporting that shows the trend for the next few years just going down and down. Every year, this government is falling farther and farther behind, and Ontarians pay the price for that.", "Does the Premier, again, have a plan to meet his own targets, or is he abandoning them altogether?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Paul Calandra", "text": [ "Again, the Leader of the Opposition doesn’t know what she is speaking about. Governments do not build homes. Governments have never built homes. The private sector has built homes. Generations of Canadians and Ontarians have come to this province and have helped us build communities for the people of the province of Ontario.", "Now, here’s where we disagree, and here’s where we disagree constantly with them: For the opposition—the Liberal and the NDP opposition—they’re happiest when people rely solely on government, when the people have to go to them to rely on homes. When they rely on government, that’s when Liberals and NDP are happiest.", "When I am most happy, when we are most happy, is when we’ve put the resources in place that allow people to realize their dream. That is why we’re removing obstacles. That is why when we were removing the obstacles, we had the highest starts in history. It wasn’t until the high-inflation policies of the federal Liberal government that we saw that stop and start to change. We’ll double down, remove obstacles and get the job done." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Final supplementary?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "Where are they? Where are the homes? What you’re doing is not working. The people of Ontario know it. Waiting for interest rates to fall is not a plan. Hoping the market is going to magically adjust itself isn’t going to get housing built. The Premier needs to do his job.", "Update zoning rules today. Allow the fourplexes in all neighbourhoods. Increase density near transit like you planned and then you scrapped that bill. These measures alone would unlock the potential to build millions of new affordable homes all across this province.", "Will the Premier scrap the schemes and focus on reversing his government’s absolutely disastrous record on housing?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Paul Calandra", "text": [ "There you have it, Mr. Speaker, in that response. There you have it, right? Interest rates don’t matter? Tell that to the thousands, the millions, of people who, because of the high-inflation, high-spending policies of the federal Liberal and Conservative socialist government, were priced out of their ability to buy their home. Think of the thousands of homes and shovels that are not in the ground because of the high-inflation policies of the federal NDP government, which made interest rates so high in such a short period of time they could no longer afford to get shovels in the ground.", "Contrast that to what we were doing: We were removing obstacles. We removed obstacles. We made it cheaper to get shovels in the ground, we made it more affordable for that to happen. You know what happened? More homes were being built in the province of Ontario than at any time in our history—single-detached homes, purpose-built rentals.", "We’re going to double down, remove the obstacles and set aside a federal government that doesn’t care about housing, an opposition that doesn’t care about housing, and we’ll deliver 1.5 million homes." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "I want to go back to the Premier again. We know one of the reasons why this Premier has so utterly failed to get housing built is because they were too busy carving up the greenbelt for their speculator friends.", "One of the key staffers involved in that scandal and scheme, Ryan Amato, is back in the news today for his continued refusal to disclose emails and records from his personal accounts related to his communication with lobbyists. Everything points to the use of personal emails to get around FOI requests. Amato even infamously asked in a handwritten note, “Is this FOI-able?”", "Can the Premier shed some light on what exactly is in these emails and why his staff were using personal emails to talk to lobbyists?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The parliamentary assistant and member for Brantford–Brant.", "1100" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "I thank the member for the question. The Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing is committed to its obligations under the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and the Archives and Recordkeeping Act. We have zero tolerance for any wrongdoing and expect anyone involved in the decision-making about the greenbelt lands to have followed the letter of the law.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Opposition side, come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "We will continue to pursue every avenue available to request that any relevant records be turned over in accordance with the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and the Archives and Recordkeeping Act.", "We’ll say it again: We’ll do this." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "Just look how far back in the benches they have to go to find somebody to read that statement.", "Here’s why this matters—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Government side will come to order. Order. Stop the clock.", "Having sat in the back row myself for many years, I always thought every seat in here is a good seat. And it’s not helpful to point out where members sit in the House.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order. I think we can start again. Start the clock." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "Wow, that really hit a nerve; I see that, Speaker.", "But look, this is why this matters: This staffer was using—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order. Member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "My goodness. I know they don’t like talking about this, but my goodness.", "This staffer was using his personal emails to communicate with lobbyists about greenbelt lands in order to avoid FOI requests. It is part of a pattern of disregarding the rules to carve up the greenbelt, to increase speculator profits, to give away ministerial zoning orders in brown envelopes to insiders.", "So to the Premier again: Is this standard operating procedure in your government to avoid the law and shield bad actors from accountability?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "I appreciate the question. I don’t feel sorry for the Leader of the Opposition if she’s offended by my presence here in the House, but I am pleased to take my seat here and to be the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, serving in the Office of the Premier.", "Speaker, as we have said and will continue to say, our government has answered this question a number of times for the Leader of the Opposition, and we will continue to do so. If the Leader of the Opposition has any additional information or any information whatsoever that she would like to provide to the commissioner, I encourage her to do so.", "As for our government, we will fully co-operate. If there is a staffer in this government that has or had done something wrong, we will root it out, and we will get that taken care of. We are here for the people of Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Final supplementary?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "I appreciate the challenge that the Premier and his government are faced with. It is hard to hold your staff to account, to get them to follow the rules, when the Premier himself won’t comply with them. For over a year, he has fought to keep his own records from public view, including phone calls and other communications that point to his own role in the greenbelt scheme.", "What will it take for the Premier to start to follow information and privacy laws and disclose his own records and those of his staff? Is it going to be the RCMP criminal investigation? What is it going to take for this government to start actually being honest and accountable to the people of Ontario?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "Again, to reply, the member for Brantford–Brant and parliamentary assistant." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "Thank you for the question. I will say again that the Premier’s office and the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing are committed to its obligations under the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and the Archives and Recordkeeping Act. We have zero tolerance for any wrongdoing and expect anyone involved in the decision-making process about the greenbelt lands to have followed the letter of the law. We will continue to pursue every avenue available to request that any relevant records be turned over in accordance with the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and the Archives and Recordkeeping Act.", "Speaker, we’ve answered this question many times. We will answer it again if the Leader of the Opposition wishes to say that. But while they’re busy trying to distract the people of Ontario about what’s going on, we are building the province of Ontario. We are building the hospitals. We are building the schools. We are building the highways that the people of Ontario need in order to get on with their daily lives." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Jennifer K. French", "text": [ "My question is to the Premier. We learned last week that while the government was appointing an associate minister responsible for auto thefts, there was a car theft ring operating within ServiceOntario—right under the Premier’s nose. These public employees weren’t smashing in windows or picking locks; they were registering fraudulent VINs to stolen vehicles for resale. These fraudulent VINs are running rampant, and the government has failed to implement any preventative measures—all of their ideas are after the crime.", "The police want a VIN verification system. Other provinces have already implemented a VIN verification system. What is stopping this government from taking real action to protect the VIN registry?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Minister of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Todd J. McCarthy", "text": [ "I appreciate the question from the member for Oshawa. As all members of this House know, auto fraud is a serious criminal matter, and at ServiceOntario, we take co-operation with law enforcement very seriously. That’s why we have procedures in place, training in place, upgrades in place to make sure that auto fraud is detected and that those responsible are apprehended and prosecuted.", "In fact, it was through ServiceOntario procedures that there was internal detection and that those responsible were identified, apprehended and are being prosecuted. That’s working with law enforcement to make sure that this unacceptable criminal activity is eradicated, and I’m very proud of our dedicated ServiceOntario employees across Ontario who are here serving the people of Ontario, standing up against crime." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The supplementary: the member for Humber River–Black Creek." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Tom Rakocevic", "text": [ "Police and experts are looking for preventative measures, but let’s be perfectly clear: None of the measures that the government has proposed to stop car thefts would have actually prevented the crimes. A helicopter won’t be able to see a fraudulent VIN number. And once you’ve arrested the car thieves and their accomplices, the cars are already long gone.", "But there’s one obvious solution that the government seems unwilling to try to stop car thieves in their tracks: a VIN verification program that has already been implemented in other provinces.", "So what’s stopping the government from taking action now to maintain the integrity of Ontario’s VIN registry?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "To reply, the Associate Minister of Auto Theft and Bail Reform." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Graham McGregor", "text": [ "The member talked about Project Thoroughbred, which was led by the Toronto police. What they failed to mention was that was an investigation funded by this government through the CISO that they voted against. We’ve put more police on our streets—almost 2,100. It used to be 1,400 under their government supporting the Liberals.", "1110", "We’ve got helicopters on the way, something that police have told us they need to hold offenders accountable, to catch dangerous criminals, avoid car chases.", "The members opposite talk a big game. They vote against all these measures. But when we have police leadership in those benches, every single member stands up. The difference is, when the police leave, the PC Party continues to stand up for hard-working police. We’ll never apologize for that.", "We’ll keep calling for bail reform and common-sense reform to keep criminals behind bars. We invite the NDP to join us." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Brian Saunderson", "text": [ "My question is for the Minister of Finance.", "The hard-working men and women across this great province are feeling the pressure of rising costs on their personal finances.", "We all know that the Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax is driving up prices for day-to-day necessities. Families are being forced to pay more for everything from grocery bills to home heating and fuel for their cars.", "People in my riding of Simcoe–Grey and across the province need financial relief. Ontarians want to see real cost-cutting measures that will make their lives easier. Speaker, through you: Can the minister tell the House what our government is doing to help Ontarians who need support right now?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "My thanks to the member for Simcoe–Grey for that great question. Thank you, member.", "Let’s remind everyone that the Liberals supported the carbon tax. They supported it here in this House. They support it up the 401. And they continue to champion higher costs. In fact, the member opposite’s leader there supports increased taxes, increased fees, and thinks that putting money into people’s pockets is a bad thing.", "I would ask this House: Putting money back into the hard-working people of Ontario’s pockets—is that a good thing or a bad thing?" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "Good thing." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Thank you.", "Putting your hand in someone’s pocket and taking money out—is that a good thing or a bad thing?" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "Bad thing." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "So the difference between our party and theirs—good thing on this side, bad thing on that side." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "I’ll remind the members to make their comments through the Chair.", "Supplementary question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Brian Saunderson", "text": [ "Thank you to the minister for that response.", "I know the residents in Simcoe–Grey are happy to see initiatives that will keep more money in their pockets. This tax rebate is welcome news for families in Ontario that have been burdened with the high costs of the federal carbon tax and interest rates.", "Speaker, the Liberals do not agree with our approach. They would rather saddle Ontarians with more fees and add new taxes.", "Our government is leading by example and by respecting the taxpayers. But we know more needs to be done to keep costs low and make life more affordable for Ontarians.", "Can the minister tell the House what other steps our government has taken to provide relief for Ontario families and businesses?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Once again, thanks to the great member for Simcoe–Grey for that question.", "The leader of the Liberal Party over there—she thinks this is a gimmick.", "Do people think that putting $200 back into the vast majority of families who need this money—back into their pockets—is a gimmick?", "This is the party that supported the carbon tax. This is a party that increased fees. They increased taxes.", "Let’s just go back in time a little bit. Who put on the tolls in Durham on the 412, 418? It was that party. Who raised the wine tax and the beer tax? It was that party. Who increased driver’s licence fees? It was that party.", "Let me remind the House which party has taken the tolls off the 412, 418. Which party?" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "This party." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Who cut the wine tax? This party?" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "This party." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Who took the fees—the driver’s licence stickers off the hard-working people and put money in their pockets? It was this party.", "We’ll never tire working for the people of—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Once again, I’ll remind the members to make their comments through the Chair.", "The next question." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "My question is for the Premier.", "Last week, the member for Oshawa and I asked about the 600 government engineers who have been without a collective agreement for over 22 months. The Professional Engineers Government of Ontario workers design, plan and oversee $85 billion in public infrastructure projects. They also provide vital services for water, air quality, mine safety, and much more.", "My question: Has the Conservative government locked out their unionized employees?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The President of the Treasury Board to reply." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Caroline Mulroney", "text": [ "As I said last week, the government’s goal is to negotiate fair and reasonable collective agreements for Ontario’s dedicated public servants. We want to make sure that they’re in line with legislative requirements and that they support our long-term fiscal sustainability.", "We have been at the negotiating table for months with PEGO, and our latest offer recognizes the important role that PEGO employees play. That said, it would be inappropriate to comment any further, as the matter is before the Ontario Labour Relations Board.", "But let me be clear: We have provided a fair offer to the PEGO employees, and we look forward to seeing them at the table again." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary question?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "My question is for the Premier again.", "For workers that have been without a contract for more than a year, the PEGO workers have been more than reasonable. They’re paid substantially less than their private sector counterparts. They haven’t had a labour dispute in 35 years. They’ve tried to bargain for almost two years; meanwhile, the government has only showed up to bargain for 30 days over that time, and the last time was three months ago.", "When these workers withdrew their engineering services on the Bradford Bypass and Highway 413, the Conservative government apparently had informed the workers that they can only return to work when the government tells them. Is this what public sector professionals can expect from the Conservative government: bargaining in bad faith and being unlawfully locked out?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Caroline Mulroney", "text": [ "Let me be very clear: Since July of last year, the government has held numerous bargaining sessions with PEGO and their bargaining team in an effort to reach a fair deal at the table. In fact, our last time at the bargaining table was on October 18 of this year.", "With respect to the latest walkout, employees represented by PEGO have decided to fully withdraw their services, and they have been reminded of the relevant terms and conditions of their employment. Like any employee who refuses to work, PEGO employees who refuse to work will not be paid. But this information was clearly communicated to PEGO leadership and PEGO-represented employees.", "The government respects PEGO’s rights and remains committed to reaching a fair and reasonable deal at the table." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "My question is for the Minister of Mines.", "Ontario has a rich mining history, especially gold mining, which has long provided jobs and economic strength for our communities. Gold is more than a mineral in Ontario; it represents opportunity, innovation and prosperity, especially in our northern regions.", "With gold prices remaining high, the demand for Ontario’s natural resources continues to grow. We know that opening more gold mines here in Ontario would mean more jobs, more investments and more support for local businesses. Can the minister please explain how the government, industry and First Nations can come together to support the growth of gold mining across Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. George Pirie", "text": [ "Thank you very much for that question. How appropriate to be talking about gold today when the price of gold is over C$3,800 an ounce. For a guy who represents Timmins, a gold-mining community, this is music to my ears.", "It was a real pleasure for me to open two gold mines this summer—one was Côté Lake mine, just south of Gogama, and the other was the Greenstone mine. The Greenstone mine, like all mines, is a very special place. It’s designed with sustainability in mind—designed so that the footprint is as small as it possibly can be. It’s designed to improve the water quality in the environment. As you know, it’s in the Longlac and Geraldton area—old gold-mining towns—so it’s reprocessing tailings and it’s cleaning the environment.", "It’s in support of the five First Nations communities that are in that area that this project got built. Jobs were created, and it happens because we’re working together. Industry—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you very much.", "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "Gold mining is one of Ontario’s biggest opportunities to drive economic growth and support local communities. The mining industry doesn’t just create jobs; it builds careers and livelihoods, especially for people in northern Ontario and nearby Indigenous communities. Gold-mining projects bring life to our northern towns and provide lasting infrastructure and investment. The Greenstone gold mine is a prime example of how we can make this happen, creating hundreds of jobs and generating real, local benefits.", "As other provinces ramp up their mining industry, Ontario must stay competitive. We need to keep supporting these projects to ensure long-term prosperity in our communities. Can the Associate Minister of Mines please share what more Ontario can do to strengthen gold mining and secure a brighter future for northern Ontario?", "1120" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Associate Minister of Mines." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "Thank you to the great member from my neighbouring riding of Mississauga–Lakeshore for the question.", "Gold mining has a critical role for the province by fuelling northern Ontario’s economy and generating prosperity for Indigenous communities. That’s why the opening of the Greenstone gold mine was truly remarkable. This $1.6-billion project not only strengthens Ontario’s mining portfolio but also brings long-term benefits to Indigenous communities through partnerships and career paths. Today, the mine supports 500 local jobs and has created over 800 jobs in the region.", "I was lucky enough to join a tour of the state-of-the-art operation and see what is possible when Indigenous communities and mining companies have lasting partnerships. I was thoroughly impressed with the incredible facility and the dedication to safety and sustainability. Environmental sustainability was at the forefront of the mine’s development.", "This project demonstrates that Ontario continues to be a leader in mining, driving investments that benefit not only the sector but also the various communities that rely on it. It’s all happening right here in Ontario." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "My question is for the Premier. A memo prepared last fall for the Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services told you that children with complex needs are being placed in hotels, Airbnbs and even in CAS offices due to a lack of suitable placements in the community. Your government has had this report for over a year, and yet you continue to let the crisis grow. In that year, children have been displaced and some have died.", "What are you doing to make sure that not one more child is put in these dangerous conditions?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "To reply, the Minister of Community, Children and Social Services." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Michael Parsa", "text": [ "I thank the honourable member for the important question. As I said from day one, our government prioritizes the safety and well-being of children and youth in this province, which is why, when it comes to support for children’s aid societies across the province, we are investing $1.7 billion to make sure every child, every youth, has the supports they need to succeed and thrive.", "That $1.7 billion includes a $14-million increase this year in child protection services. That is on top of the $76.3-million increase last year to support societies for the Ready, Set, Go Program that we initiated to make sure every child, every youth, is set up for success. We went one step further: To make sure no child and youth in this province is left behind, we increased our base funding by $36.5 million.", "Let me make it very clear to every child, every youth in this province: We will never, ever, ever waver from our commitment to protecting you and making sure you succeed and thrive." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "The only action that this government has done is to punish the service providers who they have underfunded. That is what this government has continued to do, and our kids are suffering each and every day for it.", "It shouldn’t be so complicated. An audit is not going to make one child safer tonight, and it will not put a permanent roof over the head of even one child. So the real question is: What is this government going to do to protect vulnerable children today and stop leaving these kids behind?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "The Minister of Community, Children and Social Services." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Michael Parsa", "text": [ "Again, I’ll let the House know: While we increased investments for children’s aid societies across this province by nearly $129 million over 10 years, the number of children and youth across the province has decreased by 30% in that time period.", "When I say we take that seriously, we absolutely will look at making sure children and youth are protected. When a child is placed in an unlicensed provider where they experienced abuse and were exposed to illicit drugs, yes, we’re going to review to make sure that they’re protected. When a youth is placed in an unlicensed home that failed fire safety requirements, yes, we’re going to protect them. When a society uses funding for mortgage and capital improvements, yes, we’re going to step in.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Hamilton Mountain will come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Michael Parsa", "text": [ "As I’ve said before and I’ll say it again: When it comes to the future of this province, the children and youth, we will never ever, ever, ever waver from our commitment with or without the support of the NDP—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Stop the clock. Members will please take their seats." ] }, { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "I don’t know how that paycheque makes you eat your soul like that." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Hamilton Mountain will come to order.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Minister of Children, Community and Social Services will come to order.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Hamilton Mountain will come to order.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The government side will come to order.", "We still have a ways to go. Start the clock. The next question." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Adil Shamji", "text": [ "For the Premier, who has 32,000 people in his riding without a family doctor: Yesterday, the Premier posted about an interactive map showing all the new places you can buy booze one year early. All it took was a billion dollars. Everyone knows this was a last-ditch attempt to increase the Premier’s popularity before calling an early election.", "But it made me think: If you live in Ontario and don’t happen to drink, it’s as if this government has done nothing for you. It may be slightly easier to find booze, but when it comes to finding a family doctor, it’s harder than ever. A million more people don’t have a family doctor now than in 2018. There are another 2.5 million people without a family doctor right now, and that number will skyrocket to 4.4 million by 2026.", "Twice this year, the Premier has come out with an interactive booze map, but it’s still no easier to find a family doctor. Mr. Speaker, a simple question: Why does this Premier think it’s more important to advertise booze than health care?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "To reply, the Deputy Premier and Minister of Health." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "When I look at what we’ve been able to accomplish under Premier Ford, where we now have two new medical schools that are going to start in the province of Ontario—Northern Ontario School of Medicine—the number of seats that are available are almost doubling.", "I have to remind the member opposite of a 2015 article: “Ontario Cuts 50 Medical Residency Places, Critics Warn of Doctor Shortage.” The OMA calls the elimination of 50 first-year residency spaces “irresponsible and unacceptable.” I will put our record up against the previous Liberal government any day of the week.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order.", "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Adil Shamji", "text": [ "I thought I’d get an answer like that, so I have a report of my own. This is a map of the top 10 Conservative ridings with the most people that don’t have a family doctor.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Adil Shamji", "text": [ "When the members opposite hear their riding, I ask that they please stand up and take a bow: The member from Brampton West who has 27,500 people in his riding without a family doctor. The member from Scarborough–Rouge Park who has 28,000; the member from Kenora–Rainy River—29,000 people without a family doctor; the member from Brampton East with 30,000; the members for Chatham-Kent–Leamington and Nepean—31,000 a piece; the member from Etobicoke North, also the Premier of Ontario, who has—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Stop the clock. The member will take his seat.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing will come to order. The member for Ottawa South will come to order.", "The member for Don Valley East has the floor legitimately to pose his question. I need to be able to hear him." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Adil Shamji", "text": [ "As I was saying—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Just a second, I’m going to wait until the House calms down before I recognize the member again.", "Start the clock. The member for Don Valley East has the floor.", "1130" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Adil Shamji", "text": [ "As I was saying: the member from Etobicoke North, also the Premier of Ontario, with 32,000 people without a family doctor; the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London, 38,000; the member from Bay of Quinte, 39,000; and, at number one, we have the member from Etobicoke Centre, with 40,000 people in her riding without a family doctor.", "Mr. Speaker, why won’t the Premier let his own members fight for their own constituents’ most basic health care needs?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "The fact that the member opposite is ignoring the inconvenient truth that they were the ones who cut residency seats in the province of Ontario. Our government—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "—brand new expanded medical school in Scarborough, brand new medical school in the city of Brampton, a school in Vaughan that will be specifically focused on training family physicians.", "As I say, I look at the investments that we have made with our medical schools, with the college of nurses, with the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario to make sure that people who want to practise in the province of Ontario have that opportunity. We are removing those barriers. We are expanding the health care system and the residency positions in the province of Ontario, because we understand that as we have more people in the province of Ontario and as our population ages, we have to plan, unlike the previous Liberal government." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos", "text": [ "My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. People across Ontario want to see more homes built, and they need affordable options, but high interest rates from the federal government are slowing things down. High interest rates are making it harder to finance projects.", "And then there’s the Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax. It adds extra costs to every single stage of building new homes. The people who want to buy these homes end up paying more. Builders are telling us they can’t afford to start new projects because the federal government makes things more expensive.", "Our government has taken action. We’re cutting red tape, helping builders and reducing costs where we can, but these extra barriers from Ottawa are holding Ontario back. Speaker, can the minister please tell us what more can be done to get homes built for Ontarians?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The parliamentary assistant and member for Perth–Wellington." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "As my great colleague mentioned, the federal Liberal-NDP spooky coalition in Ottawa’s disastrous tax-and-spend policies are seriously impacting the pace of new home construction in Ontario. That is why—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "They already laugh, Speaker, because they don’t want to hear the truth.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Opposition, come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "We are here to stand and deliver the truth and to stand with our home builders. That’s why, under the leadership of Premier Ford, we’ve been calling on the federal government to reduce interest rates, and that’s why we have redoubled our efforts to reduce red tape and streamline approvals, so when interest rates fall—like the opposition poll numbers—we’ll be ready to get more shovels in the ground.", "We removed the full 8% of the provincial HST on purpose-built rental housing. We provided discounts and exemptions on development charges for affordable units. We introduced common-sense changes to make it easier to build garden, laneway and basement suites. We introduced a new provincial planning statement to make it easier to build more housing near major transit stations. And we invested $3 billion in—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos", "text": [ "Speaker, thank you to the parliamentary assistant for his answer.", "People across Ontario need more housing options. They need homes they can afford. But high interest rates from the federal government continue to make it tough to start new projects. And with the Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax, the costs keep piling up. Home builders are telling us they want to help, but they face so many barriers and red tape from the federal government.", "Our government needs to continue making changes to make building easier. Our government has cut red tape and helped people get started, but more action is needed. Speaker, can the parliamentary assistant please explain how our government supports families and builders who want to add new homes, like basement apartments and laneway houses?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "Our government knows that to solve the housing crisis, we need to be constructing more homes of every kind, including accessory residential units, or ARUs, like basement apartments, laneway houses and second-storey apartments.", "That’s why, earlier this fall, the minister announced that our government is moving forward with new common-sense regulatory changes that would reduce or eliminate zoning barriers that currently impede the construction of these types of housing. By making changes to address things like angular planes and maximum lot coverages—our changes will help make it easier for homeowners and home builders to build these much-needed units.", "The construction of ARUs helps drive down rental costs by increasing the rental supply while also providing families with more flexibility—to make it easier to build laneway houses and garden suites for elderly family members.", "Earlier, the member from Davenport said, “Where are the homes?” Those ARUs are in the city of Stratford. They’re getting built because of our government’s changes to ensure we get more homes built so people—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you very much.", "The next question." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "My question is for the Premier.", "For folks tuning in and folks in the House—I’m just going to warn people that my question is about gender-based violence.", "People in Ottawa have been mourning the loss of Brkti Berhe, a 36-year-old mother who was stabbed to death in a local park in the south end of our city, in broad daylight, in front of her children. This heinous act was committed by a man known to Brkti. She was helping her auntie end a violent, troubled relationship with this man, and for that she was targeted and killed. The Ottawa police have labelled this heinous act a femicide—the second our city has had in two months.", "Speaker, no one should die for helping a loved one leave a violent home.", "Victim services experts are telling me that this tragedy, sadly, could have been avoided. Will the government commit to working with those experts so this never happens again?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Minister of Children, Community and Social Services." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Michael Parsa", "text": [ "Our government has been very clear: We want to make sure that all the victims and all their families and all the survivors have access to the supports they need, which is why we are working with our municipal partners, with the federal government, to make sure that those supports are accessible, so that every single person in their communities is working with—whether it’s the victim services, whether it’s the local service providers, which is why we announced Ontario-STANDS, Ontario’s action plan to end gender-based violence in all forms in this province. We backed that up by substantial investments—$1.4 billion over three years—to make sure our community partners and members have access to those supports.", "Mr. Speaker, we’re also working with the federal government. We’ve signed on to the National Action Plan to End Gender-Based Violence, which provides an additional $162 million so that every survivor, every victim has the supports they need in their communities across the province.", "No woman or girl in this province should ever have to live with the fear of persecution or violence in our communities." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I thank the member for his response.", "I want to return to the incident I’m raising this morning. Brkti was trying to help her auntie leave a violent relationship. But that courageous act of bystander intervention—it can’t be based on individuals alone. It needs public support. Brkti needed culturally appropriate public services and languages and capacity available that would work to keep her auntie, herself and her children safe—and we have failed that family set.", "People need help to leave these relationships, and when that help is needed, it has to be prompt, culturally appropriate and well funded.", "There used to be a fund in this province that would help people—up to an amount of $20,000—to find legal help, to move, and to get out of violent homes. That fund no longer exists.", "Women’s shelters and support workers for those shelters—I believe they deserve to be funded just as much as our hospitals, because they are critical in keeping us safe.", "To stop the femicides and to honour Brkti today, will the government commit to making sure those funds get to the front line so no one, as the minister just said, ever has to worry about leaving a violent home?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "The Associate Minister of Women’s Social and Economic Opportunity." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Charmaine A. Williams", "text": [ "As my colleague said, we will never, ever waver in making sure we are investing in the organizations, in programs that support women and ensure—keeping women safe. A total of $1.4 billion is invested, through our government, to these organizations.", "We’ve increased the funding to the Assaulted Women’s Helpline, and I’m going to say that number on camera so that every woman has this number. It’s 1-866-863-0511.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order.", "1140" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Charmaine A. Williams", "text": [ "Now, the members opposite might scoff and laugh at these concrete strategies that we are doing to help keep women safe, but we’re going to continue to invest, as well as programs that are culturally sensitive and help women regardless of where they come from, like the Women’s Economic Security Program. I announced $26.7 million across Ontario so that women can get wraparound supports and all of the resources needed so that they can help rebuild their lives free of violence permanently. We are going to continue to do this work, because we know that women are the future and women are the heart of a community, of a family and of Ontario." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "My question is for the Premier. In BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Nova Scotia, cash-strapped municipalities are allowed to charge private utilities like Enbridge a fee for the use of public land for their fossil gas infrastructure, but not in Ontario. As a result, local taxpayers are being forced to subsidize Enbridge while property taxes go up, services are cut, and municipalities don’t have the financial resources they need to address the housing and homelessness crisis, but a multi-billion-dollar company with a $19-million CEO gets a free ride.", "The member from Kitchener and I plan to introduce a bill to get rid of this hidden subsidy. Will the Premier join us in putting people’s needs ahead of giant gas companies like Enbridge by saying yes to allowing municipalities to charge gas utilities fair fees for the use of public land?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Associate Minister of Energy-Intensive Industries." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sam Oosterhoff", "text": [ "I want to thank the member opposite for his question, but I want to be very clear to the members who are in this House and all those who are watching today: The member’s underlying ideology that defines this legislation he has brought forward is one that was characterized by the Liberals’ Green Energy Act.", "What did we see as a result of the Green Energy Act? We saw a 300% increase in electricity rates here in the province of Ontario. We saw a massive increase because of the ideology that said, “No, we need taxation instead of technology. We need to punish families. We need to punish job creators, instead of incentivizing them to reduce emissions while growing our economy.”", "We have a different approach, Speaker. Through our Affordable Energy Act that was tabled last week by Minister Stephen Lecce, we’re seeing that we’re taking an all-hands-on-deck approach to energy affordability, efficiency and sustainability. We’re never going to back away from that promise, because it’s for the seniors, the job creators and the families in our ridings who want affordable, reliable, clean energy that we will continue to make investments to support every family in the province of Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "This is the exact rationale the government used when they took the unprecedented step of overturning an independent OEB decision for the first time in Ontario history, which would have protected consumers. Then the Narwhal revealed that in private government emails that government members were more concerned about corporate profits for Enbridge than they were in saving people money.", "In Edmonton, home of the Oilers, city council there charges a fee for the use of public land for fossil gas infrastructure, collecting over $60 million for people in Edmonton to spend on the things they need, but we can’t do that in Ontario. If it’s good enough for Alberta, why isn’t it good enough for Ontario? I think a company that earned $1.3 billion in profits last quarter can afford to pay their fair share. I give the government an opportunity to say yes for standing up for people and saying no to a free ride for giant corporations." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sam Oosterhoff", "text": [ "My parents have a large farmhouse. They spend between $800 and $1,200 a month in the winter months heating that farmhouse because it is on home heating oil. The reality is that they want to have natural gas. It would be far more affordable, and it would reduce emissions.", "That’s why our government has brought forward the Natural Gas Expansion Program: in response to calls from municipalities to be able to move those heavier, more intensive fuels off the market, to be able to replace them with cleaner-burning natural gas.", "But it’s not just natural gas; we’re taking an all-of-the-above approach. We’re ignoring the ideology that drove up hydro rates by 300% under the former Liberal government, supported by the NDP, and we’re saying that affordability is our bottom line as a province and as a government. We’re committed to ensuring that in rural Ontario, in urban Ontario, every single person in this province has access to clean, reliable, affordable energy, so that they are being supported to make investments and that they don’t have to worry about heating and eating.", "To support the legislation that the member opposite brought forward would be harmful for the economic security of our province—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you very much.", "The next question." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Natalie Pierre", "text": [ "My question is for the Associate Minister of Small Business. Young entrepreneurs and small businesses are the backbone of Ontario’s economy, driving innovation, job creation and growth. Yet these emerging business owners often face numerous and unique challenges from accessing capital to navigating complex regulations.", "In addition to these hurdles, the Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax hurts their ability to grow and to compete. The Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax burdens small businesses with increased costs for transportation, heating and operations, making it even harder for young entrepreneurs to succeed.", "Can the associate minister please outline what supports our government is providing to help young entrepreneurs and newly established small businesses thrive?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Nina Tangri", "text": [ "Thank you to the great member from Burlington for the question and the work that she is doing to support young entrepreneurs in her riding. Launching a business can be the start of an exciting journey for many young entrepreneurs that have so much trouble accessing the financing and the mentorship that they need to succeed.", "That’s why it was great to join the member from Burlington, alongside the member from Oakville North–Burlington, to announce our government’s investment of $2 million to Futurpreneur Canada, a non-profit organization dedicated to fostering entrepreneurship. Through this partnership, young innovators receive crucial supports, from financing options to mentorship programs designed to make their vision a reality. In addition, we’re committed to reducing barriers like high costs and regulatory hurdles, making it easier for small businesses to thrive in Ontario.", "Unlike the opposing provincial Liberals, who continue to support the devastating carbon tax that drives up costs, we’re focused on practical solutions that empower the next generation of business leaders." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Natalie Pierre", "text": [ "Thank you, Minister, for that response. It’s encouraging to hear how our government is making meaningful investments that secure Ontario’s place as the best place to do business anywhere in the world.", "Young entrepreneurs and new small business owners have an important role to play in Ontario’s economy. These individuals often bring fresh ideas and new technologies that can transform industries and help build the communities they’re in. That’s why our government must ensure young entrepreneurs and new small business owners have access to the tools they need to thrive in today’s economy.", "Can the associate minister tell the House why it is critical that we continue supporting emerging business leaders, and how their contributions shape a prosperous future for Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Nina Tangri", "text": [ "Thank you again to the member for the question. The president of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the CFIB, stated that the federal Liberals have ignored the troubling trend of business closures. For several months now, more businesses have been exiting than entering the Canadian economy, which underscores the need to support young entrepreneurs, who are essential to our economic success.", "That is why in Ontario, our government is focused on providing young entrepreneurs and new small business owners with the resources and supports they need, by investing in organizations like Futurpreneur Canada to ensure their long-term success. By fostering an environment where new businesses can thrive, we’re investing in a prosperous future for Ontario, one led by the passion and ingenuity of these emerging leaders. We will always have the backs of Ontario’s young entrepreneurs, because we know that when they thrive, Ontario thrives." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "My question is to the Premier. Unifor is launching a campaign to stop the leaks in our natural gas system here in Ontario. Unifor leaders are here with us today to push this cause. Enbridge is not acting to prevent or stop those leaks. Leaking gas means higher gas bills. We all know what that means: It means risks to people’s lives, including the lives of Enbridge workers; it means a hotter world; and it can mean, in worst-case situations, explosions.", "1150", "Will the Premier bring in regulations to require Enbridge to actually stop the leaks and prevent new ones?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Minister of Labour, Immigration, Training and Skills Development." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. David Piccini", "text": [ "Thank you for the question from the member opposite. When it comes to protecting workers, this Premier is open for any suggestions. We’ve shown multiple times, through multiple pieces of legislation, that we won’t stop taking action when it comes from recommendations from prevention council, when it comes to working with our union partners or when it comes from suggestions from the members opposite. We’ve seen it in the last Working for Workers bill where we worked together to protect workers. We’ll always keep an open door when it comes to taking measures, and I’m happy to work with Enbridge to do just that." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary question: the member for Niagara Falls." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "Back to the Premier: Unifor’s members are skilled workers. They know how to fix the leaks and how to prevent them from happening. And yet, Enbridge continues to contract out repair work and continues to ignore leaks for weeks. This is obviously a public safety issue.", "Enbridge is using unskilled workers, cutting overnight and evening emergency services. This Conservative government likes to talk about how they support skilled, unionized workers. Will this government support these skilled, unionized gas workers, who are here today up in the balcony, and require Enbridge to use its own workers to fix and prevent leaks before there is a real emergency in Ontario involving gas, before somebody dies?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. David Piccini", "text": [ "Again, thank you for the question from the member opposite. I look forward to working with Unifor to address these issues. I’m happy to meet with the members of Unifor who are here today.", "I appreciate the question from the member opposite. I do like that he’s focused on skills. It’s regrettable that he’s voted against our Skills Development Fund multiple times, something we’ve used to elevate competencies in both the compulsory and voluntary trades. And he’s voted against the climate that has attracted millions of jobs for Unifor workers in places like Windsor, Brampton and others that are retooling—investments this government is making to support these unionized workers.", "They know that when we attract these world-class investments, their members are at work working hard. It’s a shame that party opposite voted against that and continues to stand against those investments that are in the best interests of those unionized workers." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Lorne Coe", "text": [ "My question is for the Minister of Rural Affairs. The Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax is disproportionately impacting families and businesses in rural Ontario. People in rural and remote communities have to travel longer distances and rely on their vehicles more heavily for work. They should not be punished with higher costs for fuel.", "But since the implementation of this tax, businesses in rural Ontario are struggling to absorb the increased expenses. The added financial strain only makes it harder for these businesses to compete, innovate and thrive. The federal government needs to respect rural communities and abolish the tax today.", "Can the minister tell the House why families and business sectors of rural Ontario cannot afford a carbon tax?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Lisa M. Thompson", "text": [ "I wanted to share with everyone that the member from Whitby has got it absolutely right: The carbon tax is disproportionately affecting families and businesses in rural Ontario.", "You know what’s interesting? Just this past weekend, Prime Minister Trudeau attended one of the best opening weekends of the Royal Agricultural Winter Fair—was it ever busy. But I can tell you, honestly, when country came to the city and the Prime Minister was right in the thick of it all, he was less than warmly welcomed. I would dare say the queen of the carbon tax would be even less, because she doesn’t know what it’s like to live in rural Ontario—because small businesses are paying almost 40% of the total sum of carbon tax. What are they getting in return? A pittance. It’s making their cost of business go through the roof, and they don’t have any other choice than to pass it over to the consumers in small-town, rural Ontario.", "This is an absolute disaster that both the Prime Minister—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you very much.", "Supplementary question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Lorne Coe", "text": [ "It’s great to see that, unlike the carbon tax queen, Bonnie Crombie, and her Liberal colleagues, our government is making good on our promises to keep costs low and fight this job-killing tax.", "We know that rural Ontario is bearing the burden of rising costs driven by the Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax. That’s why we must continue to advocate on their behalf and ensure that their voices are being heard. Unlike the Liberals, our government cannot leave rural Ontario behind.", "Can the minister share how our government is supporting rural Ontario in the face of this tax grab?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Lisa M. Thompson", "text": [ "I think it’s important to recognize that we have a Liberal Party and an NDP that are very urban centric, and they don’t even begin to understand what it takes to do business and to raise families in small communities in rural Ontario. That is absolutely a travesty. Thank goodness, through the leadership of Premier Ford and our entire government, we are actually listening, we understand and, quite frankly, we live it every day.", "That’s why we’re bringing forward programs that are making a difference. We’ve extended the reduction in the gas tax by 5.7 cents through to the end of next June 2025, and we also are making sure that people have money left in their pockets, with the $200 per person and child that families and households will be receiving early next year.", "We’re the government that gets it. We have a plan to build Ontario. Whereas carbon tax Crombie and Trudeau desire to use it as a cash grab, we are going to stand up on behalf of Ontarians and say scrap the tax." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "That concludes our question period for this morning." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Hon. Graham McGregor", "text": [ "I just want to invite members—a lot of the veteran organizations that are here today, we’re doing a little reception in room 247. Members of all parties are welcome. I hope to see you guys there." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Stephen Blais", "text": [ "I’d like to ask for the House to take a moment of silence in honour of Andy Haydon. Andy Haydon was a reeve and the first mayor of the city of Nepean, and he chaired the regional municipality of Ottawa-Carleton from 1978 to 1991. Last week, Andy died at the age of 91 years old." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Orléans is seeking the unanimous consent of the House for a moment’s silence right now in memory of Andy Haydon. Agreed? Agreed.", "Members will please rise.", "The House observed a moment’s silence." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members may take their seats." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "I would like to take a moment to welcome my beautiful brand new granddaughter, who was born on Thursday. Her name is Aspen Cooper, and the family is thrilled to have a new addition.", "Applause." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "There being no further business this morning, this House stands in recess until 1 p.m.", "The House recessed from 1200 to 1300." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Graham McGregor", "text": [ "My dad is here. Give it up for Duncan McGregor." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.", "First reading agreed to." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Would the associate minister care to briefly explain his bill?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Graham McGregor", "text": [ "This bill proposes amendments to the Remembrance Week Act, 2016, the Soldiers’ Aid Commission Act, 2020, the Building Opportunities in the Skilled Trades Act, 2021, and the Fair Access to Regulated Professions and Compulsory Trades Act, 2006.", "If passed, this legislation would help honour and recognize veterans, add an additional mandate object for the Soldiers’ Aid Commission, and support career pathways for veterans and military families." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.", "First reading agreed to." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Would the member for Kitchener Centre like to briefly explain her bill?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Aislinn Clancy", "text": [ "Yes. Municipalities across Ontario charge an easement fee to many services, much like telecommunications. This is not allowable to oil and gas companies, giving Enbridge and other gas providers a monopoly and a subsidy that is robbing municipalities of funds that they could be using to improve their communities.", "By allowing municipalities to charge for easement of public land, much like it does for everything else, it would remove the subsidy from an oil and gas company that is profiting in the billions so this money could go to municipalities and save the property tax ratepayers of Ontario the double-digit increases that they’re seeing today. It’s happening in provinces all across Canada and it’s being requested by municipalities across Ontario." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.", "First reading agreed to." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Terence Kernaghan", "text": [ "The petition I would like to read into the record is entitled “Protect Children and Youth in Care: Cuts Hurt Kids.”", "The content of this petition talks about this government’s dismal track record: how it has failed children and youth in care, how there are so few adults to speak on behalf of young people, how they closed the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth, how that was such a step backward, and how children are being placed in for-profit, unlicensed homes with underpaid staff. We know that they’re now being placed in offices, hotels, you name it.", "This calls upon the government to do the right thing, look after kids in care and restore the Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth and properly fund non-profit care placements for children and youth in care.", "I fully support this petition, will affix my signature and deliver it with page Samika to the Clerks." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Chandra Pasma", "text": [ "I’m pleased to be able to rise today to table a petition that has been signed by hundreds of post-secondary students, including Tahmeed Hasan from Carleton University in Ottawa.", "These students note that post-secondary education has become very unaffordable in this province due to the fact that government funding is at the lowest level of all Canadian provinces, and that because we have an affordability crisis, students are not able to afford their post-secondary education, even though it’s incredibly important for the job market that students have this education. They are calling on the government to invest in grants, not student loans, so that every student can afford to have a good education in Ontario.", "I wholeheartedly endorse this petition, will add my name to it and send it to the table with page Nikki." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Peggy Sattler", "text": [ "November being woman abuse prevention and awareness month, I’m very pleased to present this petition entitled “Pass the Safe Night Out Act.” It was signed by many residents of London, and it acknowledges the epidemic that we are seeing of sexual violence, gender-based violence in Ontario.", "It recognizes that there is no legal requirement for people who are serving liquor, who hold liquor licences to be trained in recognizing and safely intervening in instances of sexual harassment and violence. It notes the high incidence of sexual violence that servers in many licensed establishments experience and it calls on the Legislative Assembly to pass the Safe Night Out Act, a private member’s bill that I introduced that would require mandatory training for bartenders, servers, supervisors and security guards in licensed establishments in Ontario.", "I fully support this petition, affix my signature and will send it to the table with page Keerthana." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Chris Glover", "text": [ "This petition is entitled “No Dump Trucks in Liberty Village.” It is addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.", "It points out that the Toronto Region Board of Trade estimates that traffic congestion in the greater Toronto area costs $11 billion annually. Liberty Village is home to 10,000 residents and another 600 businesses that employ 11,000 individuals. It’s a community that’s adjacent to the Exhibition grounds—which hosts major events like the CNE and the Indy.", "1310", "Last summer, some residents were stuck in congestion and it took two hours to travel 900 metres in Liberty Village.", "The upcoming Ontario Line construction is going to require Metrolinx to take 300 to 400 dump trucks daily out of the area of Liberty Village from 2025 to 2029, and they’re talking about possibly running it on the one road that goes through Liberty Village.", "The people of Liberty Village and I, as their representative, are asking the Minister of Transportation to work with Metrolinx to identify alternative construction methods or strategies that minimize heavy truck traffic in Liberty Village, ensuring continued accessibility for residents and businesses.", "I fully support this petition. I will affix my signature and pass it to page Sophie to take to the table." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Jessica Bell", "text": [ "This is a petition entitled “It’s Time for a Moratorium on Demovictions.”", "In my riding, in many ridings downtown, many large purpose-built rentals, 10 to 20 storeys in height, are being slated for demolishment, to be replaced with condos. This is where our affordable housing is—where our affordable private market housing is located.", "We and these petition signers are calling for a moratorium on the demolition of these purpose-built rentals so we can come up with a plan to build the new housing that we need, but also protect the affordable, private market rentals that we have.", "I support this petition, and I’ll be giving it to page Samika." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "It’s always an honour to rise and speak in this House on behalf of the good people of Toronto Centre.", "I’d like to present this petition. It’s to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it is from the Elementary Teachers of Toronto. They’re calling on this House to stop the cuts and to invest in the schools so that the students get the education that they deserve. They call on this government to specifically reduce any further cuts to the schools. They have noted that the school funding for students is the lowest in the country—and certainly, Ontario has been lagging behind. They call on this government to reduce the class sizes, to invest in mental health supports, to make sure that the schools are safe and they are no longer neglected. They call on this government to reverse funding cuts to the schools, to fix the inadequate funding formula, to ensure that the schools have all the funding that they need, especially since the lingering effects of the pandemic are still in front of us.", "I affix my signature to this petition and return it to the centre table with page Jasper." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "I want to thank Elizabeth Carswell for this petition. It’s entitled “Transform Ontario’s Energy Sector.”", "It talks about how 2023 was the hottest year on record, and how we had the most severe wildfire season on record as well.", "They explain that methane, which is a natural gas, is a very potent greenhouse gas.", "I don’t know how to summarize this, so I’m just going to read this one sentence: “The conclusion of the Ontario Energy Board regarding Enbridge’s plan for a multi-billion-dollar methane gas grid expansion ’is not responsive to the energy transition and increases the risk of stranded or underutilized assets’.”", "What they’re asking for is to pause the expansion of the methane-fired electricity generation, wind down their use to just the standby peaker plants so we don’t have brownouts, and to invest in renewable sources—including lifting the moratorium on offshore wind power—to meet our energy needs.", "I think this is a very important petition. I support it. I’ll affix my signature, and I’ll provide it to page June for the table." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "This is a petition that’s very important to me: “Pass Anti-Scab Labour Legislation.” It talks about how the worker’s responsibility or their only real negotiating chip is to withdraw their labour, and how without anti-scab labour legislation, it undermines that worker’s collective power and actually prolongs labour disputes.", "We know that 98% of contracts are negotiated without any labour dispute. The government loves to say that on a regular basis, when I ask them about supporting anti-scab legislation.", "Recognizing that if we had fair anti-scab legislation like they do in Quebec, for example, we would have shorter labour disputes—this is something that already is happening in British Columbia and Quebec.", "The ask is to basically bring in anti-scab legislation, like we already have at the federal level and we have in other provinces, and to support labour legislation, like my bill on anti-scab labour, Ontario NDP Bill 90, the Anti-Scab Labour Act, 2023.", "I obviously support this petition. I’ll affix my signature and provide it to the table with page Samika." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "I rise to present this petition. It’s entitled “Stop Billing Recipients of OW and ODSP for Ambulance Transportation.” It’s entitled to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.", "We know that ambulance fees for those who are on OW, ODSP and who are GAINS recipients are waived under the Ontario Works Act, the Ontario Disability Support Program Act as well as the Family Benefits Act. Yet every time these recipients on social assistance are transported to the hospital, they still immediately get a bill.", "This petition calls on the government to develop a mechanism similar to the easy-to-use Fair Pass transit discount pass so that they no longer have to then go back to recover their costs for the bills that they cannot afford and pay for. It reduces red tape, and I think that the government will, overall, find it to be a much more efficient way of delivering the program.", "I affix my signature to this petition and return it to the table with page Marie-David." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Peggy Sattler", "text": [ "I am pleased to present a petition on behalf of many Londoners who are really outraged at the province’s decision to bring back licences for trial and training areas. These are penned dog hunting facilities that were phased out in 1997.", "This government has decided to renew licences, to open up licences for new train and trial areas. People believe that this is an inhumane and unethical practice and have signed this petition to call on the Legislative Assembly to halt all plans to issue new licences to operate train and trial areas in Ontario.", "I fully support this petition, affix my signature and will send it to the table with page Jakob." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "This petition is entitled a petition “To Raise Social Assistance Rates.” Basically, what it talks about is that our social assistance for OW and ODSP, Ontario Works and the Ontario Disability Support Program, are way below Canada’s official Market Basket Measure poverty line.", "As we all know, with the affordability crisis, it’s simply not enough to make ends meet. An individual on OW, for example, makes $733; an individual on ODSP makes $1,368. I don’t know where you would find a place to rent for that, let alone provide food and other services.", "As well, the petition says that there was an open letter that was sent to the Premier and to two cabinet ministers that was signed by over 230 organizations that recommended that social assistance rates for Ontario Works and ODSP, the Ontario Disability Support Program, would be doubled.", "Even the small increase that was made, the 5% increase, still leaves people on ODSP below the poverty line, so their heads are still underwater, and OW has remained frozen for all this time, even during alarming inflation. During COVID, for example, CERB was brought forward. The basic income was seen as $2,000 per month, which is far above—more than double—what OW is. So what they’re asking for is for the doubling of social assistance rates for OW and ODSP, and recognizing, for OW, that that wouldn’t even bring it to the $2,000 of the CERB program.", "I support this petition. I think this is one of the reasons that we’re having growth of encampments all across Ontario, because when people can’t afford food and rent, they become evicted and unhoused and unable to get back on their feet. I think it’s important that we address this at the root causes, with a hand up for people to get back on their feet.", "I’ll provide my signature, and my friend Jasper will bring it to the table for me." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Peggy Sattler", "text": [ "I’m very pleased to present a petition in support of the Stay Home If You Are Sick Act. The petition highlights the overwhelming and very compelling public health evidence to show the importance of paid sick days in preventing the spread of infectious disease, promoting better health care screening by workers and reducing overall costs within our health care system.", "1320", "It notes that there are 60% of workers in this province, the majority of workers in this province, who do not have access to paid sick days. They can’t afford to stay home if they are sick or if they have a sick child because it could mean losing their pay, not being able to make the rent, not being able to afford the groceries.", "The petition also highlights the fact that low-wage and precarious, racialized workers are the most likely to not have access to paid sick days.", "It calls on the government to provide all Ontario workers with 10 annual employer-paid days of personal emergency leave so that people can stay home when they are sick, as well as 14 days of paid leave in the case of an infectious disease emergency like COVID." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "I beg to inform the House that the clerk has received a submission related to Bill Pr55, An Act respecting Mount Pleasant Group of Cemeteries. Pursuant to standing order 93(a), the submission stands referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "It’s a pleasure today to rise and move the following motion:", "Whereas everyone has the right to an affordable home; and", "Whereas the private market alone has not been able to build the affordable housing Ontario needs; and", "Whereas any solution to the housing affordability crisis must include public, non-profit and co-op housing options; and", "Whereas the government can fast-track building approvals and provide funding, low-interest loans and public land to spur housing construction in the private, public and non-profit sectors; and", "Whereas successive Liberal and Conservative governments abandoned the publicly supported building programs which have provided affordable housing to Ontarians for decades, leaving a significant gap in supply; and", "Whereas public building programs provide good unionized jobs for Ontario’s tradespeople;", "Therefore, in the opinion of this House, the Ontario government should establish a new public agency, Homes Ontario, to finance and oversee the construction of affordable and non-market homes." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Ms. Stiles has moved opposition day number 2. I look to the Leader of the Opposition to lead off the debate.", "I recognize the leader of His Majesty’s loyal opposition." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "Before I start, I did want to give a nod—some of them have left now, but the public galleries have been filled with students over the last few minutes. It’s wonderful to see so many young people here because this motion is about building homes for families in Ontario today, but also the homes of the future for future Ontario families.", "Sometimes, when students, young people, come in here to see democracy in action, it may seem like a reach. It’s something a little outside of what they’re used to seeing and hearing about. But these issues we’re discussing today are very, very important to, again, families today and in the future.", "In 2022, the Premier made a bold statement: “1.5 million new homes by 2031,” he said. More than two years later, here’s an update from the government’s own fall economic statement that was released just last week: Housing starts are expected to fall below prediction every single year from now until 2027.", "This government was elected to solve the housing crisis, and they have failed. They’re lowering annual targets and they’re loosening definitions of what a new home is rather than doing the one thing that they were elected to do—build homes.", "From where I’m standing, Speaker, what’s clear as day is that housing is just not a priority for this government, if it ever was.", "Housing is at the heart of everything. For New Democrats, housing is a fundamental human right. A roof over a person’s head gives security. A bed to return to at night offers comfort after a hard day’s work. A home is not just four walls and a roof, it’s a safe space from which people can start to build a rooted life.", "But right now, everywhere I go—from Toronto to Thunder Bay from Windsor to Timmins—Speaker, I hear the same stories over and over again. People are feeling stuck and insecure with the rising costs of housing: skyrocketing rents, unstable housing situations, high mortgage rates, years-long wait-lists for affordable public homes—this is the housing reality in Ontario right now, and we’ve all seen it.", "We have young people across our province, well into their twenties, still living at home with their parents because rents are just way too high to move out—boy, do I know that story. The rent for a one-bedroom apartment in most parts of Ontario, be it in Toronto or London or Windsor or Sudbury, is more than $2,000 right now. Young people are stuck, waiting to kick-start their independent adult lives.", "We also have young families with newborns living in crammed spaces because, despite working full-time jobs—often multiple jobs—despite working harder than they’ve ever worked before, they just can’t save up for a down payment.", "Let me tell you about a young couple that I met recently when I was in Belleville. They were expecting their first child. They have been saving every single dollar, hoping that maybe they could buy a home, start a new chapter of their lives. But they told me they can’t even afford more than the one-bedroom rental apartment that they have right now—they can’t even look for a two-bedroom rental, let alone buy a house. The dream of home ownership is being pushed further and further away for people across this province, and people are losing hope.", "So let’s also talk, for a moment, about homelessness and the proliferation of encampments everywhere in Ontario. People living out of tents in parks and public spaces—that has become the new normal, and not just in big cities like Toronto or Hamilton, but everywhere, in communities of all sizes. And according to the government’s own numbers, a quarter of a million people right now in the province of Ontario are homeless. I’m going to pause for a second to just let that sink in for everybody, the enormity of that number—a quarter of a million people.", "I want to thank The Trillium for the freedom-of-information request they put in, because according to the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing’s own numbers, the province’s shelter system is 97% full and Ontario needs tens of thousands of new supportive housing units.", "The solution to the problem of homelessness and encampments is housing. It is building more affordable housing. That is what is going to solve homelessness and encampments, Speaker. And that’s exactly why we’re putting forward this motion today, because our motion is about launching Homes Ontario, the largest home-building program in Ontario’s history. Our plan is going to provide the public housing we need to tackle homelessness, but it goes further to providing permanently affordable housing for young people, for seniors, for newcomers—anyone who is currently getting left behind from today’s skyrocketing and unreachable housing costs.", "Homes Ontario is a bold plan, and it is exactly what Ontario needs right now. It’s going to make housing affordable. It’s going to make it accessible. It’s going to make it available for everyone now and for generations to come. And with this program, with Homes Ontario, we will get the government back in the business of building homes and make housing construction easier, faster and more affordable. Our plan is going to ensure that at least 30% of new homes built in Ontario are non-market—that means permanently affordable and protected from speculation.", "Here’s how we’re going to do it: We’re going to start by legalizing fourplexes and four-storey multiplexes in every neighbourhood. We’re going to increase density around transit, creating stronger, more affordable, better-connected communities.", "1330", "But we won’t stop there. Homes Ontario will double the supply of permanently affordable housing, including non-profit, co-op and supportive housing, by providing funding, low-cost financing and public land for non-profit and co-op housing providers. We’ll build homes for people, not just profits.", "We’re going to unlock public lands, making them available for affordable housing projects, and establish a revolving fund to finance construction. That fund is going to ensure that as homes are built and rented, the revenue is reinvested to keep building more.", "This isn’t just an abstract policy idea. The members opposite, they like to pretend it is, but it’s really a return to what Ontario used to do, and do so well. Back in the early 1990s, we were building thousands and thousands of affordable units every year. If we hadn’t stopped, Toronto alone would have 150,000 more affordable units today—just about, by the way, the number that we’re short. Imagine how different things would be if we had continued along that road.", "We’ll also protect renters by bringing back real rent control, stopping unethical evictions and ensuring families can stay at their homes without the fear of sudden, unfair rent hikes—so many people living on the brink of losing their homes, living with that anxiety every single day. The government members know this, and the answer is simple: Bring back rent control.", "We have a dream for Ontario where no one has to choose between paying rent or saving for the future; an Ontario where young people can afford to stay and build their lives right here. With Homes Ontario, housing won’t be a luxury, it will be a fundamental human right. The private market alone will not fix the housing crisis; Homes Ontario will.", "I want to add, Speaker, that this housing plan isn’t just about bricks and mortar. We’re talking about building places where families can flourish, where children can grow up with a sense of stability, and where communities can grow stronger and more connected.", "As I said earlier, when we build homes, we’re not just creating shelter, we are creating opportunity. We’re giving people the foundation to build their lives and their futures. That’s what a home represents, right? Dignity; stability; a fair shot at a good life.", "That used to be the promise of Ontario, but not anymore. After six years of this government, what do we have? We have housing starts down, expert advice ignored, six years wasted. The only thing this government has achieved is encampments and rising homelessness in every single community in Ontario. No wonder people are feeling stuck. No wonder they’re losing hope.", "Homes Ontario is about bringing that hope back. It’s a real, bold, visionary and, yes, ambitious plan to solve the province’s generational housing crisis. We know that Ontario can be so much more, and Homes Ontario is the NDP’s commitment to living up to people’s big dreams for our beautiful province.", "If the government is serious about fixing the housing crisis, they will pass our motion today so we can put shovels in the ground and start investing in the communities where people want to live, work and raise their families." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Jessica Bell", "text": [ "I’m proud to be rising today to speak about our motion to move forward with establishing an agency called Homes Ontario that is responsible for overseeing the construction of affordable housing and non-market housing in Ontario.", "The Conservatives have had six and a half years to fix the housing crisis and they have failed. It has never been more expensive to rent a home in Ontario. It has never been more expensive. It’s also never been more expensive to buy a home in Ontario. It takes upwards of two decades now to save up enough money for a down payment. That’s a barrier that many people can’t meet. They can’t make it work. And they’re leaving this province or they’re stuck paying astronomically high prices for rent because the dream of home ownership, under this Conservative government, is no longer a reality for them. I think that’s a shame.", "What we’re also seeing with this government is a practice of blaming everybody else but themselves when it comes to fixing the housing crisis and identifying the problems that caused this housing crisis in the first place. It is deeply worrying when I see this government, when I see the Premier blame poor people for the housing crisis, blaming people who live in encampments and are just trying to survive the week or the month—blaming them, instead of looking at the policies that you have passed—and also have failed to pass—that have put these people in this very difficult situation in the first place. It’s tough to watch.", "The Homes Ontario plan is a plan that is committed to building and overseeing the construction of 250,000 affordable and non-market homes in towns and cities across Ontario so that we can meaningfully and practically address the housing affordability crisis. This is a plan that will provide affordable housing and supportive housing for people who have no home at all. It is also a plan where we are building more affordable rentals for low-, moderate- and middle-income people who cannot afford to live in our province today. It is a mix.", "We look at what other provinces and cities and countries have done to build non-market housing and we will apply those measures that they have taken here in Ontario. The best example that we can think of and that we can demonstrate right now is what’s happening with the BC NDP government and their commitment to build non-market housing. Let’s just take that and apply it here.", "Homes Ontario will provide land, financing, grants and fast-track approvals so that the private sector, the non-profit sector and municipalities can build affordable housing as quickly as possible. That is the goal. It is part of our overall plan to tackle the housing affordability crisis and the housing supply crisis.", "In addition to building non-market housing, an Ontario NDP government will move forward with the zoning changes that are needed to spur the construction of 1.5 million homes. This government has promised the world and delivered very little when it comes to building even for-profit homes. Even your own standards you have failed to meet.", "We are calling for easing of density requirements so we can build more apartments near transit stations, as well as allowing fourplexes as of right in towns and cities across Ontario.", "In addition, an NDP government will move forward with real rent control so that we no longer have situations where people are living in a home and they get evicted by a new corporate landlord who wants to jack up the rent. We need strong rent control on all properties, including new homes, so that we can stabilize rent prices for the 1.7 million people and households who rent in Ontario. It is absolutely critical.", "One thing that this government fails to do, which we will do, is to clamp down on investor-led speculation so first-time homebuyers can have that shot at buying their first home at a price they can afford so that we can increase home ownership rates in Ontario. First-time homebuyers have been ignored by this government. They have not been important. It is time that they are given greater priority.", "I’m proud to be here to support the Homes Ontario plan and I urge this government to vote for it as well." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Chandra Pasma", "text": [ "I’m very happy today to rise on this motion put forward by the leader of the official opposition calling for investments in not-for-profit and non-market-based housing, because it’s incredibly needed in my riding of Ottawa West–Nepean.", "On Saturday I joined the residents of Aspen Towers. Once again, these are hundreds of tenants who are being renovicted by their landlord, who sent out notices three days after he purchased the building because he wants to be able to jack up the rent on new tenants.", "1340", "And speaking with these tenants—one of them is already working two jobs to stay housed and she said: What is she supposed to do, work around the clock in order to have housing? Another woman, an elderly woman in her seventies, said that if she’s renovicted, she will have to live in her car. She will never be able to afford another apartment in Ottawa.", "A few weeks ago, the member for Ottawa Centre and I visited the new Cornerstone shelter for women and non-binary individuals in my riding. Moving from Ottawa Centre to Ottawa West–Nepean, they were able to add significantly more shelter spaces, but the sad thing is, Speaker, that they are full and they could take more residents if they had more space.", "It’s not the only shelter that’s been created recently in Ottawa West–Nepean. We also have the transitional housing on Corkstown Road. And yet, despite all these new shelter spaces, hotel rooms across Ottawa are full of families with children who have nowhere else to go, and that is the utter failure of this government.", "I also speak to families, to parents, as I door-knock across the riding, who tell me they don’t believe their children will ever be able to afford to move out. My husband is already preparing for our future with three kids living in the basement. But again, that’s a complete failure of this government to invest in and support the strategies that would actually build the kinds of housing that we need in Ontario, the kinds of housing that people can actually afford. And we have the solutions.", "I was also at Andy Andras co-op a few weeks ago. They were incredibly proud that they paid off their mortgage, but they were telling me about the work that they’ve done supporting one another, and they would be very happy to expand that kind of housing, but they need the funding to do it.", "And that’s what our proposal today would do: It would provide those investments through an agency called Homes Ontario so that everybody in the province of Ontario could have a place to call home that they can afford.", "I hope the government will support this motion today." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Chris Glover", "text": [ "It’s an honour to rise in the House today to talk about the NDP’s Homes Ontario plan.", "We know how to solve the homelessness crisis, and right now, it is an absolute crisis in this province. There are 234,000 people who are homeless. They’re in tent encampments in every community across this province. There are young people who are giving up. There are 50,000 people leaving this province every year and many young people are stuck in their parents’ basement because they cannot afford to rent, let alone buy a home. But we know how to solve it.", "And the biggest barrier to all of this is this conservative ideology that everything should be run by a private, for-profit corporation. We saw that when they sold the 407 for $3 billion, and now they want to buy it back for $35 billion. The Liberals sold Ontario Hydro for $9 billion, and now we subsidize a private, for-profit corporation to the tune of $6.9 billion.", "When this Conservative government is looking at the housing crisis, they gave a billion-dollar-a-year subsidy to private, for-profit developers, but those private, for-profit developers are not building homes. They’re 45,000 homes a year short of what we need to meet our targets. They are subsidizing the building of purpose-built rentals, and one of my community members lives in one of those purpose-built rentals and it’s $3,500 for a one bedroom plus den. That’s what this government is subsidizing.", "So we know how to fix this problem: We need to build non-market housing. We need to build co-ops and supportive housing and social housing. We need supportive housing for people with disabilities and mental illness because 40% of the people in encampments have a disability or mental illness and it’s absolutely a shame on this province that we are not providing supportive housing for those people.", "We need to build at least 250,000 units of non-market housing. We need to bring back rent control. We need to leverage public land like the Ontario Line stations. That’s our land. It belongs to the people of Ontario. We can make a deal with the developers so that 30% of those units are rent-geared-to-income, and in exchange they get the value of the land. We need to provide supports for first-time buyers so that young people aren’t leaving the province; they’re actually going to be able to buy a home.", "We know how to solve the housing crisis, but the last time non-profit housing was built en masse in this province was the last NDP government. If we had stayed in power, there would be 150,000 units of non-market housing. We’ve got to get back to solving this crisis." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Bhutila Karpoche", "text": [ "Ontario is in a housing crisis; we know this. This is not only a supply crisis but also an affordability crisis.", "For 15 years under the Liberals, they did not take the housing crisis seriously. And now the Conservatives are doing just the same—not taking the housing crisis seriously.", "Housing starts are down. The lack of real rent control is leaving tenants vulnerable to skyrocketing rent increases. Across the province, we’re seeing homelessness and encampments on the rise.", "The private sector themselves say they have been very clear that they will not build the deeply affordable housing stock that Ontarians need.", "With Homes Ontario, a public agency, the Ontario NDP will get the government back in the business of building housing. We must build non-market housing, and we need to build lots of it.", "I want to share with the House some examples of how increasing non-market housing supply can work to secure the affordable housing that Ontarians desperately need.", "For example, the Parkdale Neighbourhood Land Trust have had great success with their community ownership model. It allows them to partner with non-profit groups to provide high-quality, affordable housing, supportive housing and community economic development programs for those in the area. This is affordable housing in perpetuity. It will always remain affordable.", "Another example is the MURA Program, the Multi-Unit Residential Acquisition Program, also started in Parkdale–High Park, my riding. It supports co-ops and other non-profit housing providers in acquiring private rental housing that’s in the market from being snatched up by other corporations—but into non-profit, public hands. Again, we see that this program has been very successful, and it has been expanded across the city, but the Conservative government refuses to commit any provincial funding towards it.", "Ontarians need real solutions. With Homes Ontario, we can and we will build on examples like these programs that I have shared so that we can have non-profits, co-ops and the government at the table together to increase the supply of non-market homes and to ensure that every Ontarian has access to a decent home that they can afford, because housing is a human right." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "The housing crisis is also real in northern Ontario.", "We were talking about gold mines today. There’s a huge gold mine in my riding called Iamgold just across the highway from the community of Gogama. Gogama is too small to be considered a city. When somebody leaves and abandons their house or business, it goes back to the government. There are 1,800 workers sleeping in bunkers at Iamgold, on one side of the highway. There are 22 properties owned by this government, on the other side of the highway, that everybody wants to purchase. There are many contractors who go to Gogama to support the gold mine. They have no place for their workers to sleep, for their equipment to be stored—none of that. All of this could change if this government would put those 22 properties up for sale. Three years ago, the Premier was in my riding, and I showed them—“This belongs to the province of Ontario. It needs to be put up on the market.” Nothing happened. So, in January, I wrote to the Premier, to the Minister of Housing, to the Minister of Northern Development and Mines—I wrote to seven different ministers and said, “Something has to be done.” It took about a year, and I got a response that said, “We are working on it, but we have to do a thorough evaluation of the value of the homes.” It has been three years. How long does it take to do the evaluation of a home that’s worth about 150 grand, 200 grand at the most?", "Why is it that in Toronto you’re able to sell things like the greenbelt—it took weeks, and billions of dollars was gone out the window—but in Gogama, three years later, they cannot put a $200,000 house up on the market when it would change things for the better in northern Ontario? It would give those families a place to live—for their kids to go to school, for their families to thrive, for the community to grow.", "I hope the government will listen. Housing looks different in different parts of our province, but the needs are there—and the needs in northern Ontario are through the roof. The government can do something right here, right now. I hope they will.", "1350" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "I’m proud to stand and support this NDP motion to build a new public housing provider, an agency to be named Homes Ontario.", "This is a critical issue that impacts every single community in Ontario. We’ve seen the Conservative administration fail miserably with their plan to deliver affordable housing across the province. The promise of affordable housing has simply not materialized. We are seeing countless individuals and families struggling with housing insecurity and homelessness.", "Despite the numerous press announcements and despite all the different press statements that go out, we are simply not seeing the building and the delivery of affordable housing. What we are seeing, Speaker, is more tragedy, more homelessness, more despair, more tents. And this government cannot escape their record. This record is dismal, Speaker: 236,000 homeless individuals across the province, according to their own records; 1,400 encampments across the province, according to all news sources.", "Speaker, we need to see bold action, and that’s what this particular motion from the Ontario NDP does. We are asking this government to prioritize true affordability. A public housing agency will work with developers to build housing that meets the needs of low-income, vulnerable people. It has to be community-centred development—a community-centred development that actually prioritizes the needs of the community and connects it to transit wherever they can, and it should be. It has to be stable and secure because that’s what we are all looking for, Speaker. And it also needs to involve and bring forward holistic support services.", "Speaker, there are two communities in Toronto Centre that I would like to bring this House’s attention to. These two communities have had direct government intervention—they’ve had direct, government-purposed investments—and that is Regent Park, 69 acres of beautiful, brand new mixed-income housing that is now award-winning and seen as a model to be delivered across the world, as well as St. Lawrence Market. We have seen the proliferation of what happens when all three orders of government come to the table to build co-operative housing. It can be done. It has been done. And now is the time to do it again." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jill Andrew", "text": [ "Speaker, housing is a human right. Every Ontarian should be able to have a home that is safe, comfortable and that allows them to live with dignity and pride. Sadly, this is far from the case here in Ontario, where some 234,000 Ontarians and counting are experiencing homelessness. These include people from my community in St. Paul’s.", "We, the Ontario NDP, are proposing a solution today, and that is Homes Ontario, an agency that would be Ontario’s largest home-building program in its history. Through Homes Ontario, we will bring government, non-profits, co-ops, community land trusts—shout-out to Black Urbanism TO and the Oakwood Village community organization in my community for their hard work and advocacy around this—and, most importantly, our community members to the table so that we can provide funding for non-profit and co-op housing providers. We will double the supply of affordable and non-market homes on public land and near transit. We will legalize fourplexes; get people housed faster; and do this while creating good, sustainable union jobs in skilled trades, clean energy and beyond.", "This Premier and his government have failed at their own housing targets for over six years. They callously ripped away rent control. They have left many tenants, including seniors, to fend for themselves against some predatory corporate landlords that use vacancy decontrol, illegal evictions and abusive above-guideline rent increases to further gouge tenants. Instead of prioritizing homes in Ontario, the Conservative government prioritized carving up the greenbelt for their rich buddies, a foreign luxury spa that none of my struggling constituents will ever see inside of. They have wasted billions on wasteful, wasteful highways—the 413—a $100-billion fantasy tunnel, and this government thrives at insulting and stigmatizing people in Ontario who are poor.", "Not only are many people unhoused, but we also know that more and more individuals, including two-income families, are going to food banks. In St. Paul’s, we can barely keep our cupboards stocked.", "Ontario, under this government, is also home to a minimum wage that is far below a living wage.", "Speaker, this Conservative government is failing people in Ontario. Their housing legacy is more encampments, frankly, and more homelessness. It’s not just happening in St. Paul’s, it’s happening across the province. But I tell you, they can break this cycle of poverty today and say yes to the Ontario NDP motion calling for Homes Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "Many people in this chamber will remember the famous line from Jerry Maguire, “Show me the money.” No one in this chamber has ever accused me of looking like Tom Cruise, but I am going to paraphrase that line: Show me the housing. This government has failed to deliver the housing it said it would deliver, it is failing to deliver the housing it said it would deliver and it will continue to fail to deliver, because it doesn’t have the policies in place that will actually put people in homes.", "It has taken government action in this country to build housing, and that idea may be rejected by the housing minister, but I will note that after the Second World War, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of households, needed housing desperately, and people were not going to put up with governments that said, “Hey, not our problem. We’re going to leave it to the market.” Hundreds of thousands of homes were built.", "I grew up in Hamilton, a lot of it on Hamilton Mountain. If you go to Hamilton Mountain, you will see the homes today: homes that people can afford, that they raise families in and that they are proud of. If you go to York South–Weston, if you go to East York in this city, you will see those homes today, still lived in by families who can afford to have a roof over their head.", "In the 1970s, those programs had gone and we were deep in another housing crisis, and it was public pressure at the time—and, frankly, a minority government situation where the NDP demanded investment in housing—that caused investment in hundreds of thousands of homes. Apartment buildings in this city were built with the money that came from the government programs. There was a will to take action and put people in a situation where there was a roof over their heads.", "This government, this minister, has said, “Leave to it the market.” Well, it has been left to the market, and what’s the story today? My colleagues have been talking about it: people who can’t get a house, people who are living in encampments, people who are spending every nickel they have so they can put a roof over their heads. That is a failure. That is a failure.", "Perhaps the minister never heard of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. I don’t know; maybe he wasn’t familiar with it. Maybe he’d never had anything to do with the federal government. But CMHC put hundreds of millions of dollars—billions—into mortgages and supports to put people in homes that they could afford.", "In the United States, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, federal agencies, put money into people’s pockets so they could get housing. This government could provide housing if it were to adopt this plan. At this point, its commitment is to failure, not housing." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Lise Vaugeois", "text": [ "I rise today to support the motion, and I’d like to point out several things the government could do right now. One is to deal with short-term rentals. We’ve lost an enormous amount of affordable housing to short-term rentals, and the government could be regulating that and is not. The need for rent control is the most obvious solution of all of them. Why is the government not doing that?", "I want to talk about co-operatives and what this NDP plan could actually do for our communities. We have Castlegreen co-operative, built in 1975, still going strong; Superior View Housing Co-operative—beautiful, going strong. The francophone community has built all of its organizations on a co-operative model; they are trying to get funding to build La Baie du Tonnerre. Castlegreen wants to build another section for seniors who want to downsize. My mom lived in the co-ops on the Esplanade—best time of her life. She loved it there.", "We have heard in this House some pretty hilarious comments, actually. Two members—let me see; I’d like to name them—or not, if I can’t find it. The members for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke and Perth–Wellington both have claimed that co-op housing is a communist plot, so I’d like to tell all the people in my riding and the 550 non-profit housing co-ops across Ontario.", "1400", "But what’s interesting to me is that the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London is actually in a video supporting housing co-ops and saying that the government is interested is investing in them. They need to have a little conversation over there on the other side about whether some of them are conspiring to bring communism to Ontario.", "I’d like to say Castlegreen, when it was formed, “castle” stood for “caring and sharing to live economically.” That is people looking after themselves, as long as there is affordable financing available. If we had affordable financing, Suomi-Koti, the seniors project I’ve advocated for, and Giwaa on Court, the Indigenous project I’ve advocated for, would have been built already, a year or two ago." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "I’m happy to add my voice to this very important debate today calling on the government to listen to New Democrats’ plans and solutions for the housing crisis we are seeing in our province in all of our communities. In Hamilton, we have over 2,000 folks living on our streets, homeless, not able to afford the rent. I actually met a young woman the other day who goes to work each and every day from her tent. That’s a crisis.", "This kind of solution is something that is doable. In my riding of Hamilton Mountain, as the member from Toronto–Danforth talked about, over 200 homes were built. I think people started to move in about 1945. There are stories attached to those families, when they talk about the home that was 625 square feet, concrete base, two coal stoves and two basements, and yet they wouldn’t have changed it for the world. It gave those families hope. It gave them a home to be able to raise their families and build community.", "This is what this motion will do today. This is what ideas like Homes Ontario will do. It will have local builders building local homes to give homes to our families in our communities.", "This is a good solution, and I hope that the government looks at it. We have so many people who are homeless in our communities, struggling, begging for a decent place, and yet this government has done nothing to address the crisis that we’re seeing. All they have to do is look back to the Wartime Housing Ltd., see the solution that’s already there. You can pretty much carbon-copy it to Homes Ontario today and ensure that there are good, solid homes in our community that just make sense, that people can afford." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "I recognize the member from—" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Terence Kernaghan", "text": [ "London North Centre." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "—London North Centre." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Terence Kernaghan", "text": [ "Good afternoon, Speaker. It’s honour for me to rise today in support of the official opposition motion. Housing is foundational. Housing is fundamental. Housing is health care and housing is a human right.", "Housing is also an economic driver. If people can’t afford housing in a certain city or location, they’re going to look elsewhere. This leaves small businesses, manufacturing, the tourism industry and many more unable to fully thrive. That’s where the government could say yes. They could say yes to supporting them by building the housing that workers and employers desperately need.", "Not too long ago, people used to be able to work hard, save money and eventually buy a home. But more and more, this dream has been robbed from young people and new families hoping to expand. More often than not, adult children are living in their parents’ basements, while some have even subdivided their homes so that their children can have their own space. The only way many young people will have their own home is if they’re lucky enough to inherit what their parents already own—if they’re lucky enough to have parents who own a home.", "It begs the question: What happens when you have siblings? Or what if you’re stuck in a place without rent control, constantly at the mercy of corporate landlords? It’s important that we make the distinction between corporate landlords who will exploit vacancy decontrol and the lack of rent control, as opposed to small landlords who care for their people like their own family.", "We need a wartime effort to make sure people become housed and stay housed, for that matter. Our Homes Ontario plan will empower co-ops, non-profits and municipal partners to get people housed faster and create good, stable union jobs. It’s time for this government to get serious.", "In 1964, John Robarts created the Ontario Housing Corp. Was he communist? They created almost 85,000 public housing units.", "When did conservative ideology change? I want this government to stop being afraid of doing the heavy lifting, stop being afraid of getting shovels in the ground and stop being afraid of non-market housing.", "Everywhere you look across Ontario, you see scenes of human tragedy in the encampments that Premier Ford has created. It’s cheaper to house people with supports than it is to leave people languishing on the streets. That is this government’s legacy.", "I urge this government: vote to build, vote for housing, say yes to supporting people, say yes to supporting businesses and say yes to the future with our NDP plan." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "I want to talk about a real, urgent housing crisis facing families in London and why they need the Homes Ontario program. In London, the average price for a single-family home is $659,000. That is a 146% increase since 2014. This is despite record-breaking home sales. Many people cannot simply afford to buy a home anymore. Home ownership is increasingly out of reach, and the numbers reflect that. Renter households grew at twice the rate of owner households between 2011 and 2021 in London.", "Renters are feeling the pinch just as much. The average rent for a one-bedroom apartment in my community is now $1,770, and if you need a two-bedroom, it’s $2,177. If you’re a family and you need a three-bedroom, you’re looking at $2,607 a month. These costs are unsustainable for many, pushing housing out of reach for hard-working families.", "In my community, there’s an estimated 2,000 people homeless on the streets. The social housing wait-lists in London: There are over 7,000 households on the wait-list for affordable supportive housing, and it can be 10 years or more to get into housing. That’s a decade of instability, worry and often substandard living conditions for people who simply need a safe, affordable place to call home.", "Things need to change. This government needs to listen to this motion today.", "I hear from working families trying to build a stable life for their children, from seniors concerned about aging in place and wondering whether they will be able to afford to stay in a home that meets their needs. Earlier this year, I heard from a woman and her fiancé with three children living in a London motel, unable to find housing. This is simply unacceptable in our province. People deserve a safe, permanent place to raise their family.", "This isn’t just a statistic. It’s about real people: our neighbours, our friends, our family members. We’re calling for a new approach where public land and resources are unlocked for the creation of new homes that people can actually afford.", "Homes Ontario will work with the federal and municipal governments to ensure an adequate supply of non-market homes that are affordable to meet the needs of all incomes, families, ages, family sizes and cultures. I hope this government will do the right thing and vote for Homes Ontario. This can be a part of Ontario’s housing solution." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I want to thank the Leader of the Opposition for putting this on the floor for debate, and I want to say for this House that when I think about our plan for housing, this ambitious plan, Homes Ontario, I think about the poppy on my jacket. I think about the poppy on my jacket because next Monday, I’ll be standing at the national cenotaph. I’ll be visiting veterans’ events all over the community of Ottawa to remember not only the sacrifices that service members and their families made and the war that had to be fought against fascism—a menace that continues to this day—but also the peace that that generation won when they came home. Part of that peace was housing. It was the right to have a union card, the right to work in a safe workplace, the right to public medicare and the right to housing.", "When I think about what has happened in Ontario, as members have said already, I think about that peace being squandered and I look at this place 30 years ago that was leading the country in building non-market housing. Evelyn Gigantes, who was Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, who I am proud to call a friend, who was part of that NDP government, tells me without any uncertain terms that non-market housing in that short five years increased by 60%—60%. And what happened for people—low-income folks, and co-op housing, which includes people of all incomes, people living together—is that they had an opportunity. The 14 co-ops in Ottawa Centre, the community housing buildings—my landlord for our community office, the Centretown Citizens Ottawa Corp.—they exist because there was a government determined to make sure that funds were flowed to non-market solutions. And that option still exists today.", "1410", "So I want every member of this House to be thinking of that next Monday, as we stand with veterans and their families; as we think about the peace that was squandered and the decades where we went to real estate speculators, property flippers and people who thought housing was about being able to buy up stuff, sit on it and flip it for profit. I want us to think about the veterans who built the communities in which we live, and to have a plan, like the leader has proposed, to make sure that everybody—everybody—has a decent place to live." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "It’s a pleasure to rise to speak today about the NDP’s Homes Ontario—a plan to bankrupt the province of Ontario.", "Madam Speaker, I’m a young Ontarian, and I understand many of the challenges young families are facing across Ontario when it comes to owning their own home. The dream of home ownership feels increasingly like a mirage—something that moves further out of reach with each passing year. Many young Ontarians are finding it nearly impossible to carve out a future in the housing market. That’s not just an economic issue; it’s a societal issue as well. I hear from my friends, constituents and my own family members who feel like the dream of home ownership is just something that keeps getting further and further away. They watch as home prices continue to rise, outpacing their incomes, and despite doing everything they were told that would lead to financial security. It’s a generation stuck—stuck with burdensome rents, stuck in smaller living spaces, and stuck without opportunities that the generations before them took for granted.", "There are many young Ontarians who are looking to start their own families, but they can’t—not because they aren’t ready, not because they don’t want to, but because they are stuck living with their parents due to the astronomical costs of housing. Others are delaying key milestones in their lives, like getting married or moving to a city that aligns with their career dreams, because they simply cannot afford to do so.", "These are young Ontarians who just want the same opportunities that were afforded to the generations before them—the opportunity to have a place to call their own, to raise a family, and to build a life that is stable and rewarding. But instead of helping to foster these opportunities, the current landscape has presented them with only obstacles. And today, we’re here to talk about why that is and why the NDP’s latest proposal would make it even worse.", "Before I talk in more detail about the NDP’s plan to bankrupt the province of Ontario and saddle future generations with mountains of unsustainable debt, I think it’s important for us to look at how we got here.", "The current housing supply crisis didn’t happen overnight. This isn’t a crisis that materialized out of thin air. It’s the result of decades of Liberal policy missteps and negligence. It was caused by the failures of successive Liberal governments, which for decades failed to ensure that Ontario was building enough housing. Year after year, they ignored the warning signs and failed to plan for future growth. They allowed bureaucratic red tape to stifle development, and they turned a blind eye to the rising costs that were making housing unattainable for so many.", "I know the members opposite probably won’t take my word for it, but, luckily, they don’t have to. All they need to do is listen to the former Liberal cabinet minister and party leader Steven Del Duca, who, earlier this year, admitted that the housing crisis started under the Liberals’ watch. He said, “Frankly, this housing affordability crisis began when I was sitting at the provincial cabinet table.” That’s why, in 2018, when our government came into office, we began immediately to cut red tape, streamline approvals, and empower home builders and municipalities to build more homes. We knew that we had to act—and act decisively—if we were to tackle the crisis that the previous government had allowed to fester. We made substantial land use planning reforms, we introduced balanced rent control policies, and we started to get government out of the way.", "Speaker, as I mentioned rent controls, I want to highlight that Ontario, in the entire country, has the strongest rent control in all of Canada. Ontario’s maximum rent allowance is the lowest in the country, at 2.5%, lower than the BC NDP. So the members opposite today who are arguing that we should follow the BC NDP are actually asking us to increase rents across Ontario.", "When the NDP was last in power, in those dark days—back when I was zero to four—the rent increases were very high, when they had rent control: in 1990, 4.6%; 1991, 4.5%; 1992, 6%; and 1993, 4.9%. Those are higher than we have seen under our government in the allowances they are allowed to raise rent.", "I also want to mention about the rent controls we have in place, the balanced approach, but you don’t have to take my word for it, Speaker. I want to read a quote: “We do actually have fairly strong legislation in terms of the compensation and rights of tenants. The landlord can’t just affect people without having it approved by the Landlord and Tenant Board.”", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "I heard some groans on the other side. Maybe they want to talk to their colleague from Ottawa West–Nepean, who said this on July 3, 2024. I agree: We have very strong legislation to ensure we are protecting our renters in the province of Ontario.", "Madam Speaker, our plan is working. Ontario saw the highest construction starts in over 30 years—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "I hear some more heckles from the other side, so I have some more stats. I have a lot of stats; bear with me, Speaker.", "Housing starts, which they want us to go back to in their plan, Homes Ontario—they’re talking about the Rae days, the glory-ness that was for their socialist utopia. From 1990 to 1995, housing starts—this is CMHC data—in the province of Ontario: 299,268 housing starts over that period of time. Housing starts since 2018 to 2024, in a high-interest, high carbon tax environment that the federal NDP coalition is implementing on Ontario: 572,014 housing starts, and we didn’t have to bankrupt the province of Ontario to do that.", "So I just want to highlight some of those statistics and really show the record numbers of our new housing units breaking ground. This is especially true for purpose-built rental housing. For three years in a row, the province saw new all-time record highs being set for the number of purpose-built rentals being constructed—housing that is so desperately needed for young families, seniors and those trying to get a foot in the door.", "But the federal NDP coalition in Ottawa just couldn’t help themselves, they just couldn’t keep their hands out of people’s pockets. They embarked on a path of reckless tax-and-spend inflationary policies. They ran unsustainable deficits, they hiked taxes to pay for it and the result—interest rates have skyrocketed to levels not seen in decades.", "The impact of these federal policies has devastated the home building sector in Ontario. Projects that were once viable have been shelved and prospective homeowners are being forced to sit on the sidelines. That’s why our government is redoubling our efforts to cut red tape and streamline approvals, and get the government out of the way so that home builders can do what they do best: build homes. This includes the introduction of a new provincial planning statement, a renewed vision for Ontario that embraces growth while addressing the needs for our diverse community.", "At the heart of the 2024 provincial planning statement is our continued commitment to building 1.5 million new homes by 2031. It’s an ambitious goal, but it’s one that we will meet, because it’s not just about the numbers; it’s about ensuring that every Ontarian has a fair shot at the dream of home ownership.", "1420", "But that goal won’t be achieved without strong leadership, collaboration and efficient land use planning. That’s why the new planning statement directs municipalities to accommodate growth by designating sufficient land for residential development and by ensuring an appropriate range and mix of housing options. This includes everything from detached homes to multi-unit buildings, to meet the needs of families, young professionals, seniors and vulnerable populations alike.", "By focusing on strategic growth areas and intensification, the statement encourages the efficient use of existing infrastructure, reducing the need for costly expansions while also supporting transit-oriented development. This means that new housing will be better connected to public transit, making our communities more sustainable, reducing traffic congestion and enhancing access to services.", "Furthermore, policies supporting mixed-use development ensure that our neighbourhoods are vibrant, complete and inclusive, places where people can live, work and thrive. We envision neighbourhoods where people can walk to work, where children can walk to school and where seniors can live comfortably within their communities—the communities they help build, surrounded by those services and supports that they need.", "Another critical element in the flexible provincial planning statement is providing more authority and responsibilities to our municipalities. It allows them to tailor solutions that best fit their local context, while still aligning with provincial goals, because we understand that when it comes to building their local communities, municipalities know best, not politicians here at Queen’s Park. By allowing municipalities to forecast growth and plan accordingly, we’re empowering local governments to be proactive in meeting the housing needs of their residents.", "The only way we’re going to tackle the housing supply crisis is by working together: provincial government, municipal governments, home builders and community stakeholders. That’s why, in addition to the new planning rules, our government is investing record amounts to support municipalities in addressing what they have said is the number one obstacle in building more housing: housing-enabling infrastructure. It is the pipe in the ground, it is the water main at the end of the street and it’s the waste water facility or water facilities that will get homes built, because when they can take that pipe from the waste water facility or the water plant and bring it to a new development, that means that those homes will be able to be sold or occupancy can be taken—or rented out, as well.", "That is why we’re investing so much through the Building Faster Fund, the Housing-Enabling Water Systems Fund and the Municipal Housing Infrastructure Program. We’re providing municipalities with over $3 billion to help build critically needed housing-enabling infrastructure like roads, pipes and water systems. Because while it may not be the most exciting aspect of development, these are the kinds of investments that will help the province unlock not hundreds, not thousands, but millions of new homes.", "We’re also finding new ways for people to build, more creative solutions to tackle the lack of housing supply, whether it’s moving mass timber to 18 storeys. We’ll continue to work with our home builders and the innovation that is occurring in those sectors, whether it’s the factory-built homes—I know the members opposite were talking about after World War II. We build cars very differently than we did in the 1950s, after the world war. We need to do the same for housing and encourage that innovation to work with our home builders, to ensure that we’re able to build more homes quickly.", "For example, the minister recently posted consultations on new, common-sense regulations aimed at making it easier for people to build additional residential units like garden suites, laneway houses and basement suites. These changes will further support our government’s move to allow as-of-right development up to three units on a lot across the entire province of Ontario.", "By making it easier to build these types of units, we’re providing families with greater flexibility. For example, by building laneway houses or garden suites for older relatives, we can help families stay together longer, provide much-needed housing options that fit within existing neighbourhoods while also providing an opportunity for maybe a first-time homebuyer to have some rental income to supplement their mortgage that they are paying in, having the ability to use that as well, ensuring we create more housing stock in communities across Ontario, not just in our bigger cities but in rural and northern communities as well.", "It’s about making our communities stronger, more resilient and more supportive for all who live there. Our government will continue to look for new opportunities to cut red tape and to help home builders build all types of housing across the province.", "As you know, Madam Speaker, earlier this year, we tabled Bill 185, the Cutting Red Tape to Build More Homes Act, and it was a very bold commitment and more decisive action from our government on helping to get more homes built and bringing the dream of home ownership within the reach for more Ontarians.", "There are many critical initiatives within that bill that make housing development faster, simpler and more responsive to the community needs. One of the major barriers to building more homes in Ontario was the maze of regulations that developers and municipalities had to navigate before a project could move forward. Bill 185 tackled this head-on by cutting red tape and streamlining the planning approvals process. This means fewer unnecessary delays and a smoother pathway for housing projects to get shovels in the ground. By reducing third-party appeals and shortening the time frame for meeting planning conditions, we’re ensuring that critical projects face fewer roadblocks.", "As I referred to earlier about the housing starts, these changes would help reduce some of those delays. Between 2021 and 2023, it is estimated that 67,000 housing units were delayed due to third-party appeals. With Bill 185 we have reduced these delays, ensuring housing is being built where it is needed.", "We also introduced the use-it-or-lose-it policy. This new framework addresses a critical issue that municipalities across Ontario have faced for years: stalled developments. We heard from our partners in cities, towns and municipalities across the province that tens of thousands of housing units remained dormant due to developer inaction. The use-it-or-lose-it provisions now empower municipalities to set clear deadlines for when developers must begin construction. If those deadlines are not met, municipalities have the authority to reallocate critical infrastructure, such as water and waste water servicing, to projects that are ready to move forward. This is a powerful tool to ensure that approved developments turn into actual homes, not promises on paper.", "Another key initiative in Bill 185 is the effort to support student housing by exempting publicly assisted universities from the Planning Act. As many students struggle to find an affordable place to live, this exemption is now helping accelerate the construction of new student residences by saving time and removing planning application fees. It is estimated that this change will create up to 20,000 new housing units by 2028, which will not only benefit students but also alleviate pressures on the broader rental market, making housing more affordable for everyone.", "I know Minister Calandra and I had an opportunity to visit the University of Western Ontario earlier this year to announce this very important initiative. I know Western University in particular is undergoing a major redevelopment, and this change in Bill 185 has helped them navigate that and streamline that development to get those housing units for our students online quicker so they have a place to call their own. It frees up more rental in the larger community of London and surrounding communities, and having that available increases the housing supply in that community.", "I know the mayor of London is going above and beyond to get more homes built of all types. The last time I was speaking with him, he was mentioning how many building permits they have issued this year, and it is my hope they are well on their way to meeting their housing targets. Despite, again, the high interest rates of the federal Liberal government and their tax policies, we’ll continue to get more homes built in London and in communities across Ontario.", "To further address housing supply and affordability, Bill 185 also eliminated mandatory parking minimums for new residential developments near major transit stations. I know our home builders were very appreciative of this change as a common-sense move that allows builders and buyers to decide how much parking is truly needed based on market demand, rather than outdated regulations. By removing these parking requirements, we’re lowering the cost of construction significantly, making new developments more affordable, particularly in areas where public transit is readily available. For a typical 500-unit development, removing the parking minimums has reduced costs by up to $50 million—savings that are being passed on to prospective homeowners.", "1430", "Bill 185 also took steps to increase the supply of housing-enabling infrastructure. As I mentioned earlier, we are investing significantly in this component. The province has invested over $1.8 billion to help municipalities build the infrastructure needed to support new housing. This includes the Municipal Housing Infrastructure Program, which is providing $1 billion to support core infrastructure projects, like roads, water systems and ensuring municipalities have the tools to develop complete and thriving communities. These investments are not only helping build homes faster, but also making sure that those homes are connected to essential services.", "We’re committed to modernizing Ontario’s building code to keep pace with innovations and best practices. The most recent addition has reduced red tape by over 1,730 provisions, increased harmonization with national standards, helping lower construction costs and make housing projects more viable.", "We’re also, as I mentioned, exploring innovative construction methods such as mass timber, which can be used on up to 18-storey buildings. This will help create more housing, while also supporting our forestry and construction centres, and also creating more environmentally friendly buildings.", "Bill 185 represents a significant step in addressing Ontario’s housing supply crisis. By cutting red tape, empowering municipalities and making substantive investments in housing-enabling infrastructure, we’re creating the conditions for more homes to be built, and built faster.", "This piece of legislation we passed earlier is more than just numbers; it’s about helping families find a place to call home, helping students secure housing closer to campuses, and ensuring that all Ontarians have access to affordable and attainable housing.", "Speaker, I appreciate your indulgence on Bill 185 and highlighting some of those key changes.", "I’d also like to take some time today to talk about the so-called plan that the Ontario NDP is proposing.", "I will admit that it actually took me a while to find the details of the NDP’s plan, because when I looked it up online, I noticed it was locked behind a paywall, I needed to sign up on a sheet for the NDP’s website. I already get enough emails from my own party, so I didn’t really sign up for it. It’s a little difficult, wasn’t very open and transparent—slightly surprising from a party that claims they are so open and transparent. I’d think you would want people to look at your proposals, but I guess not.", "When I was actually able to find some of the details from the media, reading their reporting on it, I was not surprised to see that what it actually amounts to isn’t a path forward to build the homes Ontarians need, but it’s a plan, as I mentioned earlier, to bankrupt the province.", "What they are proposing is to take $150 billion from the pockets of taxpayers and open up the NDP construction company. Maybe some members over there are worried about the next provincial election, so they want another company that they can go work for, potentially, afterwards and find some employment.", "For all that money—more than what the Ontario government spends yearly, combined, on health, education, post-secondary education—the province would just get 225,000 homes. I go back to my earlier stat from 1990 to 1995. Bob Rae had a better track record: He built 299,000 homes, roughly—with very high rents as well, that time. So it’s kind of perplexing that they want to spend $150 billion to build 225,000 homes, well short of the 1.5 million homes that our province needs. As the old Wendy’s slogan would say, “Where’s the beef?”", "At $150 billion, it would saddle future generations with an unsustainable mountain of debt—debt that our children and grandchildren would have to pay off. Maybe, I shouldn’t be surprised, because when we first announced that our province had set a goal of building 1.5 million homes, the Leader of the Opposition went so far as to actually question whether we really need that many homes. That’s the kind of thinking we’re dealing with here—a lack of vision, a lack of ambition, and a fundamental misunderstanding of the housing needs of Ontarians. And that’s the 225,000 homes—if the NDP can ever deliver that number.", "Madam Speaker, I also want to point out that the Liberal-NDP coalition, a very left coalition in Ottawa, is not even proposing this.", "The NDP in Ontario is pretty much the only provincial party, I think, in the entire province proposing this kind of idea—an NDP construction company.", "I think history has taught us a valuable lesson: Sometimes the best way to get something done is to get government out of the way.", "As I know the US election is tomorrow, I wish all the best to—I have a few friends running on both sides of the aisle; don’t everyone get on me. I wish them all the best tomorrow.", "As former US President Ronald Reagan famously said, the nine most dangerous words in the English language are, “I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.” Those are very scary words. I think Peanut, the poor squirrel in New York, would say otherwise. God rest Peanut.", "Nowhere in the plan is any consideration given to how they will actually pay for any of this. Maybe they didn’t include it because the answer is so obvious: from the pockets of everyday Ontarians. That’s not surprising, because, fundamentally, the NDP believe they know how to spend people’s money better than they do.", "I tuned in this morning to watch the Leader of the Opposition’s news conference, and I noticed that despite being asked at least three times, she refused to say how much the NDP’s plan will cost. I guess I cannot blame them, with the final bill for their reckless scheme and scandals—as she likes to say often—being $150 billion of unsustainable debt. I probably wouldn’t want to admit that either. The amount of taxes they will have to raise to pay for this scheme would be astonishing. Again, it is not surprising.", "Premier Rae raised taxes numerous times, over and over—because they never saw a tax—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "It’s not making it up—but okay.", "I have never seen a tax that the members opposite haven’t enthusiastically supported.", "The member from Ottawa Centre is on record as being supportive of a very high carbon tax. I know he is running—to run federally in that nomination. I wish him the best of luck. I sure hope we elect a government that axes that tax.", "The NDP MPPs have called for higher personal vehicle taxes, higher sales taxes, taxes on liquor sales, licence plate fees, more road tolls—taxes upon taxes upon taxes.", "At the end of the day, the NDP and Liberals just can’t help themselves; if they see something, they’ll find a way to tax it. If they could tax the air—which a carbon tax is, I guess, so they tax the air.", "Let me be clear: Raising taxes will kill prosperity in Ontario. We saw that under the McGuinty-Wynne Liberal government, supported by the NDP. They took more money out of our pockets, of hard-working Ontarians—the less they have to spend on their families and the less they have to reinvest in their businesses and save for their futures.", "Tax increases stifle economic growth, discourage investment and make the province less competitive.", "Under the former Liberal government, 300,000 jobs left this province because of their high taxes and uncompetitive investment environment.", "Under Premier Ford and the Minister of Economic Development and Trade, we have attracted over 800,000 new jobs to the province of Ontario in six short years, and we will continue to work to ensure that we are getting those investments in Ontario.", "I know earlier today we had a representative from Ohio—again, best of luck to our American colleagues, however they decide they’re going to vote tomorrow. We will work hard to attract the businesses from those states to Ontario. Many people, when I meet in my own riding and across Ontario about attracting investment—our competition isn’t necessarily Manitoba, Quebec, Manitoba or the Maritime provinces. It’s Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York state. We need to ensure that we are competitive, both within Canada but also North America and globally. That is what our government is doing, as seen by the $44 billion we have attracted in new auto manufacturing investments, seeing the 30,000 more people employed in our agricultural sector since 2018. We continue to attract these investments because we know when taxes go up, job opportunities dry up, businesses hesitate to expand and the cost of living becomes unbearable for those already struggling to make ends meet.", "1440", "The NDP’s plan is nothing more than a prescription for higher taxes and lower economic activity. It will punish the very people who need the help the most: the young families trying to get a start, the small business owners trying to grow and the vulnerable Ontarians living paycheque to paycheque. Instead of giving people a chance to prosper, they want to take more money from them and burden them with more debt. This is not the path to success; it is a path to economic decline.", "Higher taxes hurt everyone. They hurt the most vulnerable in our province. When taxes are raised to pay for reckless spending, it means less disposable income for families to buy essentials like groceries, clothing and school supplies. It means fewer jobs for young people trying to enter the workforce. It means higher costs for businesses, which in turn pass those costs on to consumers, driving up the price of everything from housing to transportation, as we see with the federal Liberal carbon tax.", "This is not how we build a prosperous Ontario. We do not lift people up by dragging them down with more taxes and debt. We need to let Ontarians keep more of their hard-earned money. We need to create an environment where businesses can thrive, where jobs are plentiful and where opportunity is available to all.", "Our government will continue to fight against higher taxes and reckless spending. We will continue to stand up for the people of Ontario who want a government that respects their hard-earned money and rewards their efforts. We’re committed to building a brighter future for Ontario, a future where young Ontarians have a real opportunity to achieve the dream of home ownership, where families can grow and thrive and where our communities are vibrant and connected and inclusive.", "Now, Speaker, I have talked at length about the NDP, but obviously there is another party in this place. Let’s not forget that it was the tax-and-spend policies of the federal Liberal-NDP coalition in Ottawa that got us into this mess, and the independent Liberals in this place as well.", "I want to briefly talk about carbon tax Crombie and why Bonnie Crombie’s record shows why she would be the wrong choice to lead our province. While the dream of home ownership slips further away for countless Ontarians, it is crucial that we have leaders with a genuine vision for addressing the housing supply crisis, not one who has repeatedly failed her own community. Bonnie Crombie’s record is one of obstruction, of NIMBYism and of failing to deliver the homes that Ontario desperately needs." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sam Oosterhoff", "text": [ "You can say that again." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "Maybe I will. Madam Speaker, Bonnie Crombie’s record is one of obstruction, of NIMBYism and of failing to deliver the homes Ontarians desperately need." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sam Oosterhoff", "text": [ "You can say that again." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "I’m only going to say it twice, my friend.", "Under her leadership as mayor of Mississauga, she demonstrated time and time again that she would rather say no to new homes than yes to progress. Mississauga, one of Ontario’s largest cities, actually saw a shrinking population under her leadership, a shocking and concerning trend that speaks volumes about her inability to accommodate growth and meet the needs of her constituents. We need to ensure Ontario is building more homes to meet the demands of young families, professionals and seniors, yet Bonnie Crombie has shown a consistent pattern of standing in the way of progress. She called a 17-storey rental development of 148 units “way too much density,” and described a 12-storey, 195-unit proposal as “an abomination.” These are not words of a leader who understands that increasing housing density is a vital product of addressing our housing supply crisis. Instead, these are words of someone more interested in preserving the status quo, even as young Ontarians are stuck paying rent or living with their parents because they simply cannot find an affordable place to own.", "Madam Speaker, Mississauga, under Bonnie Crombie, said no to a 4,690-unit development because of concerns over sun shadows. I ask this chamber, are sun shadows really worth more than the future of our young families?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sam Oosterhoff", "text": [ "No." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "I would say no as well. Maybe we should ask the NDP or the independent Liberals. I would think they’d say yes, unfortunately.", "Are sun shadows really worth more than the future of our young families? More than the aspirations of those who just want to get a chance to build a life of their own?", "In her final month as mayor, there were only 12 housing starts in Mississauga—" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Zee Hamid", "text": [ "Boo." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "Boo, indeed. Over the last year, Mississauga reached just 39% of its housing target, a failure that cannot be ignored when considering the scale of Ontario’s housing needs.", "Let’s talk about bureaucracy, Madam Speaker. I talked about the NDP construction company. That’s one type of bureaucracy. But under Bonnie Crombie’s leadership, it took an average of 23 months to approve a new development. That is nearly two years of red tape, delays and unnecessary obstacles that ultimately harm those who need housing the most. And it’s not because the red tape is in their way. If Bonnie Crombie had the leadership and the guts to ensure that she got homes built quickly, she could. In my own riding of Perth–Wellington, in the municipality of Mapleton, for an ARU—an accessory dwelling unit—they issued a building permit in two days. It takes Bonnie Crombie 23 months to approve a development. We cannot afford this kind of inefficiency if we are serious about building 1.5 million new homes by 2031, as our government is committed to doing.", "Moreover, Bonnie Crombie has made it clear that she does not even believe in the core principles that drive housing affordability. She once stated that there is no evidence that reducing fees and timelines for developers will result in the creation of more affordable housing. Wow, Speaker. This demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how supply and demand works. We need leaders who understand that by increasing the supply of housing, we can help alleviate the pressures that are driving up prices. Bonnie Crombie, on the other hand, seems to believe that reducing these barriers won’t help, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I hope the independent Liberals who are here today are listening. She even went as far as to say that building more homes could be harmful because it might make housing too affordable—too affordable, Speaker." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "Shame on Bonnie." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "Shame on Bonnie “carbon tax” Crombie. I know.", "Under Bonnie Crombie, Mississauga became a place where development was stymied, where approvals took longer and where growth was stunted, and now she wants to take the same failed approach province-wide. We can’t allow Ontario to be led by someone who refuses to recognize the need for more homes, who embraces NIMBYism and who has proven unable to meet even the basic housing targets in her own city.", "Ontarians deserve a leader who will fight for more housing, not against it. Bonnie Crombie’s record speaks for itself—a record of failure, obstruction and a lack of vision in the future of Ontario. We cannot afford to entrust the future of our province to someone who has repeatedly shown that they do not understand—or worse, do not care—about the challenges facing Ontarians today.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "I’ve still got 20 minutes, Speaker, so I’m going to indulge the NDP.", "1450", "We need leaders who will say yes to growth, yes to opportunity and yes to building more homes that Ontarians needs.", "Speaker, with my remaining time, I want to talk about the important investments our government has made in the province of Ontario. I know, in budget 2023, we announced a significant increase in the Homelessness Prevention Program, an increase of, on average, across the service managers, 40% across the province of Ontario. It’s approaching $700 million now, a significant investment to provide our municipalities with the resources they need to provide those wraparound supports.", "I know in my own riding of Perth–Wellington I had the pleasure of announcing in 2023 roughly $4 million for approximately 40 deeply affordable housing units in the province of Ontario. So our government is making those investments to get those affordable units built—currently, Speaker, what we are already doing in this place.", "We also announced, it was mentioned earlier, around wraparound supports. That’s very important and something our government believes in. I know in the most recent provincial budget, there was $9 million set aside for a project in Guelph and Wellington, which obviously supports a portion in my riding that I have the pleasure of representing—$9 million for wraparound supports for those who may be unhoused or for those who may need deeply affordable housing. Again, it’s mental health supports, work placement or HR supports for those who are looking for a new career and obviously addiction supports as well.", "I mention these investments and unfortunately, every single member of the opposition voted against them—every single one, Speaker. They voted against these important investments in communities like Guelph to ensure that we get more homes built and more affordable homes. As I mentioned earlier, it seems that they think we can tax our way to prosperity. We know on this side of the House and in the middle over there, we cannot do that, Speaker. We need to continue to invest in the good-paying jobs in the province of Ontario. And as I mentioned earlier, attracting $44 billion in economic investment for auto investment, whether that’s EVs but auto as well.", "I had the distinct pleasure of hosting the member from Simcoe–Grey in my riding on Friday for the auto mayors’ caucus biannual meeting. It involved the auto mayors in Ontario. I know they were talking about some of the significant investments in Simcoe–Grey. Our government was able to secure that investment from Honda, which is very good to see. We secured a great investment in Elgin–Middlesex–London for Volkswagen.", "It was great to be able to show my colleague from Simcoe–Grey some of the businesses that will then work to support those major investments, those spinoff or the tertiary businesses associated with those investments from Volkswagen, or PowerCor and Honda, ensuring that we have those investments in our province and ensuring they have a good paycheque at the end of the day so they can then go buy those homes and rent those homes in the province of Ontario. It’s ensuring that we’re providing a hand up and not a hand out, as the Minister of Labour talks about extensively in this place, Speaker. And it’s ensuring that we continue to double down on those efforts to attract more good-paying jobs to the province of Ontario.", "I know Minister Fedeli is focused on the life sciences initiative, a very ambitious initiative to make Ontario one of the best places in the world to investment in our live sciences sector, ensuring that we are cutting the red tape in that component as well, getting drugs to market quicker, ensuring we have those supply chains as well.", "I just want to go back to the auto mayors. I forgot to mention at that meeting the mayor from Sudbury was there as well—it was great to see that connection from the mines in the north being able to supply the raw materials which will be processed in Sault Ste. Marie or Hamilton and then put on the production line in Minto or in Stratford or in Alliston, as well, Speaker, ensuring we have tire supply chains. It’s one of the few places in the world where we can have it vertically integrated, where there will be very high environmental standards, obviously, from our miners in the north ensuring it is close to the product, cutting down our carbon emissions to get those products to their respective manufacturing facilities. It is our government’s investments that are supporting that, with the Ring of Fire development and with many other developments in the north bringing back that prosperity to northern Ontario.", "As we all know, Dalton McGuinty and Kathleen Wynne said that the north was a no man’s land. I know we have very strong representation in our caucus from the north who continue to advocate for it day in and day out, ensuring we make sure those investments reach northern Ontario and the communities there, ensuring that we are seeing more investment in northern Ontario.", "I know the Minister of Mines shared with me recently that the population in northern Ontario is actually increasing after many, many years of declining, which is wonderful to see. Many families moving there; my own sister lives in northern Ontario—ensuring they’re moving there for the good-paying jobs that our government is working to help attract and retain, here in the province of Ontario.", "I go off on this, because it demonstrates our ability to attract that investment, to get those good-paying jobs for the homes that we need; ensuring we keep taxes low; we have a sound fiscal plan moving forward; making sure we make those investments in health care, housing and education, as I mentioned throughout my remarks today; ensuring that we give our municipal partners the tools they need to get more homes built; and ensuring that we have that co-operation.", "I know we recently announced, in the fall economic statement, an increase to the Ontario Municipal Partnership Fund, which is a fund for our small, again, northern communities, ensuring we have that increase as well, and $100 million over the next two years, $50 million immediately. I know my rural and small municipalities appreciated that immediate investment, because that will help them get the housing-enabling infrastructure on the ground, help them meet their capital requirements and help them build the roads and bridges.", "I’ve talked at length in this place about housing-enabling infrastructure around sewers and waste water, but it may be something as simple as ensuring that there is a roundabout for the traffic flow of a new development and having that investment there as well. It’s ensuring that those investments are continuing to be made, that we are there listening to our municipal partners.", "I know the increase in the OMPF funding, as it’s commonly referred to, was a key ask at ROMA and AMO. I know our government continues to work with our municipal partners and listen to their concerns. As I mentioned earlier, we increased the Homelessness Prevention Program by a significant amount. That was a direct ask from our AMO partners to ensure we have the resources to support those initiatives moving forward, ensuring that they have the resources to support that deeply affordable housing across Ontario—again, $700 million annually; billions of dollars over the three years.", "A key component of that, which my own service managers appreciated, was the fact that the Homelessness Prevention Program—you would know what you’re getting each year of the three-year program, providing them some stability, so they can make those long-term capital investments.", "I know many, year over year, not knowing exactly what amount you’re going to get doesn’t give you that sort of long-term time horizon. Our government, under this Minister of Finance and Premier, provided them with that certainty, so that they know what they’re going to get, year over year, so they can plan accordingly for those larger capital investments that they may require in their communities, ensuring that they then are able to plan for that and support those important needs.", "I know as well, along with the infrastructure funding we’ve done, we continue to make important investments in housing, as well as cutting red tape, as I mentioned with Bill 185, but it’s also ensuring that we reduce development charges on deeply affordable—so affordable housing and purpose-built rentals as well.", "Again, unfortunately, all the members of the opposition in this place, both the NDP and Liberals, voted against it. When we brought that bill forward—deeply affordable, ensuring they are not paying a development charge, a tax, a fee, to get those homes built.", "I know Habitat for Humanity, our non-profit housing sector, were very appreciative of that change, ensuring that they’re able to then reinvest that. These are non-profit builders, whether it’s Indwell or Habitat for Humanity, reinvesting that money in communities across Ontario, like mine, and ensuring that they are getting those homes built.", "I know our government continues to work—again, the Associate Minister of Housing with the Minister of Infrastructure—on making more provincial land available for housing, as we continue to do now, ensuring we work, as I mentioned earlier, with factory-built homes. We build homes the same way we have for over a century now, ensuring that we provide that innovation, ensuring that we have the important—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "This is what we get from the members of the opposition, colleagues: making fun of our innovative home builders in the province of Ontario that are literally building this province—and they talked about unions in their motion.", "I find it comical from the other side talking about unions, when they voted against my motion earlier this year to support our nuclear industry—they voted against it. Our clean, green nuclear fleet—they voted against that expansion. And those good union-paying jobs, many in my riding that go up to the Bruce—they voted against that. It’s under the Minister of Energy and the Associate Minister of Energy-Intensive Industries getting that buildout, ensuring we’re building more nuclear across the province of Ontario, ensuring that those homes that we are building in the province of Ontario have electricity, have the lights on when you come home from a long day at work.", "1500", "Let me paint you a picture of 10 years from now. They like to be doom and gloom; this is 10 years from now in St. Thomas: Someone comes home from the PowerCor or Volkswagen plant, after helping build the cars of the future, to their home that was built, potentially, in Perth–Wellington—a factory-built home—ensuring that we have that there, driving a Honda car—I know he works at Volkswagen—built in Alliston, supporting his family with a good-paying job with a pension, with benefits, and ensuring that their kids are going to one of the many new schools that we’re building in St. Thomas or the London area with the $15 billion we’re investing in school capital projects over the next 10 years, ensuring his partner has a job as well, and ensuring that they are able to provide for their family—potentially even to be able to save up to go on a small vacation, maybe to beautiful northern Ontario. This is what our government is fighting for. The other side may fight for higher taxes, higher fees, more congestion. Our government will continue to fight for the average Ontarian in the province of Ontario, ensuring we’re building more homes, ensuring that we’re building all types of homes.", "This government has never said we’re only going to build single, detached homes. As our policies have demonstrated, we will help support purpose-built rentals, we will support non-profits, we will support townhomes, apartment buildings—the complete continuum, Speaker— and, as I mentioned, making investments in deeply affordable homes as well in my own riding of Perth–Wellington and Stratford. I know there are many examples across Ontario of these important initiatives—ensuring we work with our home builders.", "I know the Minister of Labour has also done massive work, great work with the Skills Development Fund, ensuring we’re making those important investments. Year over year, we have increased that fund, because we have seen on the ground the impact and the need in our communities. I think of the technical training group in my own community that does industrial welding and millwright, providing important, good-paying jobs—six-figure jobs, starting once they get their ticket—in many businesses across Perth–Wellington and the surrounding areas. They provide that funding to support them in that through the Skills Development Fund.", "I think of something else in the Skills Development Fund, again, in a combination of homes but also health care, ensuring we have those wraparound supports: Blue Branch does important work. My colleagues, if they were at AMO, may have seen the container out front at AMO. That group that is building that is referred to as Blue Branch. They received skills development funding through the Ministry of Labour, and they are helping build those small units to either help house some health care workers, help house anyone in particular. That’s what they’re trying to get off: those low-cost homes that people can then take occupancy in rather quickly, Speaker, and ensuring we get those homes out there as quickly as possible.", "This important investment across our government, through the Skills Development Fund, whether it’s training in health care, whether it’s training in the skilled trades, whether it’s working with our union halls—I know in the last round of funding they had a capital stream as well to ensure that we’re supporting both, obviously, the training as well, but also the capital needed to have that, whether it’s a new millwright machine or a new welding machine or anything of that nature, so they can continue to offer those important services and that training to better paycheques and higher paycheques.", "I know it’s ensuring that we continue to work with all our municipal partners to get more homes built across Ontario, whether it’s the use-it-or-lose-it policy that I referred to earlier, and ensuring that municipalities are able to reallocate waste water capacity if necessary to ensure that they have that ability. Because this is something I heard—I know the Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy travelled extensively over the summer break, and we heard from municipal colleagues about the need, even before that, around the use-it-or-lose-it policy, ensuring that they have that ability to reassign development where necessary, ensuring that we work with them in that field.", "Our government’s legislation demonstrates our willingness to listen and work with our home builders, with our post-secondary education. I know that the Minister of Colleges and Universities worked extensively with the Minister of Municipal Affairs on the student housing exemptions in the Planning Act. I know they continue to look at ways to get those student housing units built quickly. As I mentioned earlier, the University of Guelph is looking extensively to build more housing and those changes in the Planning Act will help them do that to get more homes built.", "Again, the members of the opposition and the Liberals voted against those important initiatives to ensure we get more homes built. They voted against getting rid of parking minimums near transit. The same members opposite who always talk about transit—transit is very important. That’s why we’re investing literally hundreds of billions of dollars to expand transit across the province of Ontario—obviously important in the GTA with our subway expansion and the Ontario Line as it continues to move forward. They voted against that: reducing the parking minimums around major transit stations areas, which reduces the cost to build for our builders, which means they’re able to get to market quicker.", "I just wanted to sort of explain for those maybe watching at home, Madam Speaker, around why that is important and why the development charge discount for the non-profits and purpose-built rentals is important. As I mentioned earlier in question period around the HST as well, we heard from our builders who build those multi-residential units that if they were able to get a break on the tax—the HST, for example—or able to have those development charges removed for the purpose-built rentals or non-profits, they would then be able to invest that either in the next tower, if it’s a major development, or the next townhomes. They are taking that money that they are saving and reinvesting it, getting more housing supply on the market. That’s why we continue to work with them and listen to what they are telling us. They aren’t telling us to build an NDP construction company; they’re telling us to cut taxes, to be there with them, to streamline development approvals, to cut red tape to ensure we continue to build homes across Ontario.", "It’s not just homes in downtown Toronto; it’s homes in northern Ontario and rural Ontario. Almost every community—except Mississauga, as I referred to earlier, because of carbon tax Crombie—is growing and every municipality is looking to build more homes. They’re coming to the table with us to get more homes built—a Team Ontario approach. We saw that earlier when the federal government threatened to pull the affordable housing funding. It was our government working with our municipal partners that was able to force the federal government back to the table to get a deal done to ensure that the federal government recognizes the importance of Ontario and the affordable units that exist in this province.", "It’s ensuring that we continue to work with all of our partners to get all of these homes built across Ontario. We’ll continue to fight against higher taxes and reckless spending; ensuring that we are cutting red tape; moving forward and eliminating parking minimums; housing enabling infrastructure; modernizing the Ontario building code, which hadn’t been modernized in years. In addition to modernizing the building code, working with our building officials so that they are prepared for that transition, ensuring that they have those plans in place to ensure that that transition is there.", "In conclusion, Speaker, I appreciate the House’s indulgence today. I know I’ve covered a lot of ground on this, but to those who may be watching at home, it comes down to an Ontario Progressive Conservative government that will continue to cut taxes, cut fees and streamline development. If you want higher taxes, more spending, unsustainable debt, please go ahead and vote for the Ontario NDP. They’re creating a construction company; maybe you can get a job there. I know that they will continue to propose higher taxes, more debt—just as the Wynne Liberals did: more taxes, higher debt. That is what you will get with the Ontario NDP and the Ontario independent Liberals.", "Our government will continue to stand on the side of hard-working families to get more homes built across the province of Ontario; to keep costs down to ensure that that young family is able to realize a dream of home ownership; to ensure that those individuals can have a place to call their own; whether it’s a rental in downtown Toronto or whether it’s a house in beautiful Perth–Wellington, that they’re able to achieve that.", "We see the results in our own housing starts. As I referred to earlier, from 2018 to 2024, over 572,000 housing starts in the province of Ontario—almost double what Premier Rae did with his housing plan in that era as well. We haven’t increased taxes. We’re cutting taxes, reducing red tape and streamlining development to ensure that all communities can thrive in the province of Ontario.", "This is what our government and caucus stand for, and we’re happy to go to the people of Ontario without it any day.", "1510" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Sol Mamakwa", "text": [ "It’s always an honour to be able to speak on behalf of the people in Kiiwetinoong, but also, as First Peoples of these lands, I welcome everybody that’s here. Welcome to our lands. We welcome all people.", "Speaker, we cannot continue to count on the private market alone to meet Ontario’s housing needs. I say that because it’s not working and it’s at the full cost—people pay full price, and they pay with their lives.", "In Sioux Lookout, in 2019, there were 11 deaths of people without homes who were forced to live on the streets. Speaker, if Sioux Lookout was Toronto, that would be 10,000 deaths. And these people are people that look like me. We cannot continue to ignore the crisis. We need housing to save lives.", "In 2014, Nishnawbe Aski Nation declared a housing state of emergency for 29 First Nations and reaffirmed the declaration in 2018. Just last week, I spoke here about how some of the people who end up homeless in towns like Sioux Lookout move there as a result of the housing crises taking place in many First Nations.", "Housing is connected to every part of life. Housing and health go hand in hand, and housing is connected to employment. I say that because in Sioux Lookout, it is very difficult to fill jobs across sectors because of the lack of housing. One place where we see this impact is in health care, where the staffing shortages impact the hospital’s ability to provide the services the community needs.", "I’ll say again: Housing is a human right. It’s time for the government and non-profit actors to step up to create truly affordable housing solutions through a new public agency, Homes Ontario, to ensure that the housing rights of all Ontarians are respected and that their needs are met, in Kiiwetinoong as well." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Jennifer K. French", "text": [ "Housing is a human right. Everyone should have access to a safe, clean and affordable home, and the private market alone has not been able to meet Ontario’s needs.", "For decades, our province was able to provide affordable housing to Ontarians, but our publicly supported building programs were abandoned by Liberal and Conservative governments.", "The lack of housing is one of the worst challenges we face. People can’t find housing. So many are homeless and many are right on the verge of living rough. My staff shared with me that some of our previously housed constituents are now living in vans—and not by choice. As the weather shifts, they tell us that it’s getting cold, living in a tin box.", "One constituent we’ve been working with is a single mother with three children. She has been fleeing abuse and has been identified for the special priority wait-list for subsidized housing, but there are very few three-bedroom units available. She’s waited years already and she may have years left to wait. And that’s the experience of someone that the province’s system has identified as a special priority, so what can that mean for thousands of other Ontarians on the housing wait-list? What should they expect?", "While neighbours linger on the housing wait-list for decades, renting in the private market is only getting harder. Tenants in Oshawa have faced some of the highest rent increases in the province over the past 10 years. The cost of renting in my community shot up 61% between 2014 and 2023, nearly four times the government’s rent increase guideline.", "People are spending more than ever to have a basic roof over their head. We deserve so much better. Housing is a human right.", "This government talks about getting things done, but they’ve failed to be proactive on this fundamental issue. The housing crisis we are facing is a threat to all our communities. When hard-working people have to pinch every penny to make their rent or mortgage each month, the system is broken. If we’re going to fix this problem, it’s going to take a war-effort-level response. Governments have done it before. Many of us have wartime housing neighbourhoods in our communities. When they were built, it wasn’t a wild concept; it was leadership.", "We deserve an Ontario where everyone belongs and where everyone can live a good life, notwithstanding the Premier’s desperate plan to erase homelessness and charter rights. People are desperate, and we need a plan to solve homelessness, not criminalize it. That’s what the NDP Homes Ontario plan is: a solution that meets the scale of the housing crisis we are facing. But we have to build it, so let’s get building." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Peggy Sattler", "text": [ "I want to give a shout-out to the London Community Foundation for their recent Vital Signs Report, and the data that they included that really highlights the importance of the NDP’s motion to Londoners who are facing housing challenges. The London Community Foundation reported that as of June 30, 2024, there were over 7,200 households in our city—that’s 15,000 people—who were on the waiting list for subsidized housing in London. Meanwhile, over a three-month period, from April to June, only 80 households were placed in housing. At that rate, it will take 25 years to clear the wait-list for subsidized housing, but we know that the wait-lists are going to continue to grow.", "We hear every day from people in London who are getting renoviction notices from their low-rent apartments that are being bought up by numbered companies in Toronto, throwing those seniors and people with disabilities out onto the streets.", "London’s population is rapidly growing. That puts a huge stress on our existing supply. Last week, the Premier said that municipalities need to “pick up their socks” when it comes to fixing our housing crisis, but I want to tell you what’s happening in London. The city is facing a $28.5-million hole this year alone from provincial changes to development charges. The city is approving almost 10 times as many new housing units as are being constructed. Permitting is not creating new housing units.", "We need a bold plan. We need a plan like Homes Ontario that is going to bring non-market actors together with the private sector to help solve the housing crisis that we are facing. The biggest log jam, we know, is the shortage of deeply affordable housing, supportive housing, and that is where non-market actors can play such a critical role.", "Back to London Community Foundation: They have convened a one-of-a-kind initiative in London, Vision SoHo Alliance, that is bringing together six non-profit housing developers, jump-starting the creation of 690 units. But organizations like that can’t do it on their own. They need the provincial government as a partner, so I call on the Conservatives to support our motion." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "I’m rising to speak in favour of Homes Ontario, our plan to build non-market housing. The reality is that people are suffering right now, and we need geared-to-income housing, we need co-op housing and we need affordable housing for people.", "I am a product of socialized housing. I grew up in Sudbury housing on Cabot Street. My mom worked full-time but couldn’t afford to feed her kids. Because of that opportunity to have housing and not worry about housing, I am where I am today. This is what we talk about in helping people.", "I want to share a story of a constituent who wouldn’t allow me to use her name because she’s embarrassed about how little she makes on ODSP. She’s embarrassed that she’s facing eviction on ODSP, and she’s not sure where she’s going to live or where her two children are going to live. She was one day late paying her rent, one day late because her cheque from ODSP came in one day late, and she’s facing eviction. That’s how thin the margin is for people.", "We know that every year for the last seven years, there are more working people going to food banks. Pretending that housing is like fidget spinners and that if you produce enough of it, the market will glut and the price will come down, is wrong-headed and false. It takes a long time to build a house, and unless the government comes in with a program to incentivize people to build non-market housing, they’re going to build the most expensive housing that they can. The home builders of Ontario know it. I’m sure they’ve told the government this. The government is not listening, because they favour their wealthiest donors first." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "I just want to start by thanking my colleagues here for their impassioned debate points and for bringing the voices of people from all across Ontario into this Legislature.", "I want to say, in response to the government members opposite, it is extraordinary how this government will always make their mistakes, their failures, somebody else’s fault. They will never take responsibility. But we’re six and a half years in, and your government has failed. The Conservatives have failed to build the housing. They have failed to meet their own targets. They have failed to make life easier for Ontarians. My goodness, they spent three long years doing nothing but introducing legislation to pave over the greenbelt for their friends, rescinding it, reversing it and then getting investigated by the RCMP. Houses built: zero.", "I want to say, in closing, over the last many decades, governments of all stripes have built housing—truly affordable housing for Ontarians. This is nothing new. What’s new here is that we are in the worst crisis we have seen in generations. What’s new here is that we have a government that is willing to put ideology ahead of what is right in the province of Ontario, which means building the truly affordable homes that Ontarians need.", "I want to ask the government to start saying yes to providing homes for people who have no home. I want to ask them to say yes to young families who have been priced out of the housing market, who need an affordable, stable place to rent so they can save up. I want to ask them to say yes to the seniors that want to downsize and need affordable options to do so. I want them to stop saying no to Ontarians who desperately need affordable housing right now.", "Stop putting the speculators and the insiders and the billionaires ahead of the people of this province. Say yes to the NDP’s plan for a Homes Ontario to build the deeply affordable homes that Ontarians desperately need." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "MPP Stiles has moved opposition day number 2. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard a no.", "All those in favour of the motion, please say “aye.”", "All those opposed, please say “nay.”", "In my opinion, the nays have it.", "I call in the members for a 10-minute bell.", "The division bells rang from 1522 to 1532." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Order. MPP Stiles has moved opposition day motion number 2. All those in favour of the motion will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "All those opposed to the motion will rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk." ] }, { "speaker": "The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Trevor Day)", "text": [ "The ayes are 26; the nays are 60." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "I declare the motion lost.", "Motion negatived." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "When we last debated the bill, the member from London–Fanshawe had the floor." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "Thank you, Speaker. It’s an honour to rise again today and talk about the fall economic statement. We started debating this document last week, and now we’re continuing again today. Where I left off, it was—we were talking about families with children with disabilities, who are especially hard hit with respect to all the services that they need.", "For three years, critical funding for social services, including the Ontario Disability Support Program, Ontario Works, the Ontario Autism Program and the children’s aid society has been frozen. Families in my riding, like Mario’s family and Bethany’s family, are waiting year after year for autism services that aren’t coming. They have lost hope.", "Jess is a mother in my riding, and she has given up on the Ontario Autism Program entirely because she can’t get answers to her application. They have a system in place now where, if you call or ask a question, it’s a form response; it isn’t specific to your case. So she has given up. The wait times are so long, as I mentioned, that she’s now trying desperately a different angle, a different way to get help for her child. She’s trying to get help through the Special Services at Home funding, just to actually get some support for her son, because she is so desperate.", "There are so many families who are so desperate to try to get help for their kids and therapies for their kids, quite frankly. How can we, as a government, just look these families in the eye and tell them that they just have to keep waiting? “Hang on—the next fall economic statement.” “Hang on—the next budget.” They’re tired of these excuses, and what they really need is full funding.", "When we look at the fall economic statement, when it’s referring to autism—it isn’t referenced in here. There’s no reference to access to the OAP program or core service funding. So that leaves these families behind. These are children who need our help. They are so in need, and we are yet to see real action. Yes, the government has put some money into that, but you can’t just put things halfway and expect a full result.", "Also, a lot of these families are waiting for housing. We just had an opposition day motion today talking about the housing crisis here in Ontario and the solutions that the NDP believes are going to be part of what the whole solving of housing can look like. It’s not just having the private sector build homes, because they’re in the business of profit.", "1540", "We need to make sure everyone in Ontario has access to good, affordable, safe housing. Part of that is that the Homes Ontario plan looks at the government co-operating, collaborating with different levels of government to build housing so that the families that I just talked about have access to housing.", "Because this crisis keeps deepening in my community, people cannot afford the rent. It’s worth repeating right here because this is about affordability. The fall economic statement is about making people’s lives more affordable and giving people some relief. In London alone, if you want to rent a one-bedroom apartment, it’s $1,770. Imagine the kind of income you have to have just to rent a one-bedroom apartment. If you want a two-bedroom apartment, it’s $2,177. And then if you want a three-bedroom apartment, because you have a family, you’re looking at $2,607.", "Think about that in the context of the fall economic statement. For people who are on low wages, that is a huge portion of what they bring home. For families who are on ODSP, it is inconceivable that they can afford to pay out of their own pocket $1,770. Seniors who are on fixed incomes and they want to downsize: Again, how can you afford $1,170? That’s just the one bedroom.", "So in order for people to even get into housing, they have to make quite a bit of income per month. This is why the Homes Ontario plan is really a program that needs to be adopted by this government, because it takes into account all income levels, no matter what situation you’re at.", "When people are trying to get into housing—and there are wait-lists in London, for example, 7,000 families or households are waiting for social housing—how long is that going to take? People can’t sustain that kind of cost of living.", "If you actually think about what you would make on ODSP, and if you live in geared-to-income housing, which would be 30%, then there’s the cost of living, which has actually escalated. So even given 30% in a rent-geared-to-income housing situation, that doesn’t leave you a lot with today’s economy: buying food and paying for gas, utilities and insurance and a car payment. These things are out of reach for so many people. I think that’s why the Homes Ontario program is a smart solution to all the housing needs that need to happen in Ontario.", "We talk about different mixes—the social housing, absolutely. We wouldn’t have social housing—unless, in the 1990s, when the NDP government had the same program. I have that in my riding, and I know that that is so helpful to so many people. I have co-operatives in my riding because of that initiative. Those things can happen again, where people get that start. When you live in co-op, that is affordable rents, non-market rents, some market rents—it’s mixed, and it gives people a leg up so that they can plan for future housing.", "Speaker, it’s also a concern because when we don’t have the social housing or the non-market housing, when we have encampments—people who are in homeless situations; in London, it’s estimated there are 2,000 people who are homeless. I can tell you, people who own homes in my riding, they want to see homeless people housed. But where are they going to live if we don’t have this kind of structure in the housing fabric when we start talking about how we need to build housing for people that they can afford?", "It’s a reality, what’s really going on, and I think this government is missing the opportunity to take an open mind about looking at involving themselves in the housing solution. It’s just not about the private market that’s going to solve all those problems.", "If I look at the private market, right now, because of costs, the single-family home in London is, on average, $659,000. That is a 146% increase since 2014; that’s just 10 years. So, with wages not going up and the cost of living and the cost of housing, with those kinds of margins people will never be able to break through. We need to come up with more creative solutions that actually will solve the problem. I think Homes Ontario is one of those wonderful initiatives.", "I spent a little too much time on the housing, because I only have five minutes left, but it’s so important, because without housing, people can’t access health care. That takes me to the topic of health care in the fall economic statement. The government has earmarked—I think it was $1 billion to health care. But all that money—is it really going to be used to deliver health care, or is it going to be used because the government took Bill 124 and took the health care workers to court? What are those costs? And because they have to pay grandfathered back wages to those workers, because they lost that case—really, what a misuse of your time and a misuse of financial money, right? It really is.", "It is discouraging to Ontarians when we’re talking about how to house people and how to build affordable homes for people who are working, how to build affordable homes for people who are on ODSP, or low-income seniors, or on fixed incomes. And yet, governments find themselves that the way to use our financial coffers is to challenge workers in an unconstitutional piece of legislation, to use financial money in legal battles. That’s not the way I would want to see a government use public money and tax dollars.", "Speaker, with respect to health care, I’m going to end by talking about a constituent of mine. Her name is Carolyn, and Carolyn is 79 years old. Carolyn has been waiting three years for surgery. She was diagnosed three years ago with a stage 4 prolapsed bladder. She was told at that time she needed surgery. Well, since then, she’s been waiting so long that she is now diagnosed with a stage 4 double prolapse. That means her bladder and her uterus. That is a very serious condition. She’s 79 years old. Why is there not anything in the fall economic statement about making sure that we have the doctors and the surgeons that we need so Carolyn, who’s 79 years old, doesn’t have to live in pain and discomfort?", "You know what else happens when you can’t find health care and you can’t access health care services? Your mental health deteriorates. Again, the NDP, just last week on an opposition day, talked about how important mental health is. If we continue to allow these core services, these core needs—which are health care and housing—to deteriorate, we are going to have more people who are living on the street. Because if you don’t have mental health services, again, some of those things, you’re perhaps not understanding the gravity of getting—because you can’t get the help. Your situation unravels in a very ugly way.", "Many people who are hurt, injured workers, I hear them calling all the time. I’m speaking to them about how, through no fault of their own if they were injured at work, they can’t get the medical help that they need. They don’t have their job anymore and they’re literally facing homelessness.", "It doesn’t have to look this way in Ontario. We could have done so much better. The NDP has talked about what we would do better. Well, there are things we want to make sure that people have and one of them, of course, is, as we mentioned, the housing, which is Homes Ontario.", "We talked about mental health. Mental health should be covered under OHIP. Everyone should have access to that. Your brain is part of your body and if you’re not feeling well, you need to get health care services.", "I only have a minute and a half left, but even with respect to child care, Speaker, the government hasn’t put enough in the fall economic statement because halfway through, they’ve got about 86,000 spaces that they’ve gotten through. But what’s happened is, the Financial Accountability Officer has warned that, in 2022, we were actually in a shortfall of 220,000 child care spaces. Part of that is, when we’re building our spaces, we need the workforce. Again, I proposed a bill to actually have a workforce committee with specialized people on there, experts on there, so that they could let you know how to sustain the child care program, which is very important.", "1550", "The national child care program right now, I worry that it’s under threat, that when the federal election happens and there’s another government in place, they will dismantle that. I would like a commitment from this government to speak to their federal cousins and to ensure and get a guarantee that we will continue that national child care program so that we can build on the workforce that’s needed to take care of those children and people can go to work." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "I want to thank the member from London–Fanshawe. During her debate on the fall economic statement, she said that Ontario families are so desperate and talked about housing and a variety of things. But the thing that really stood out to me was, there is no reference to the OAP program, there are no references to autism, there are no references to core funding for families with kids with autism.", "I remember, when the Premier was running in 2018, he said that autism families will never have to protest on the front lawn of Queen’s Park. Six years later, the number of kids on the autism wait-list is somewhere north of 73,000 kids. I’m just wondering why the member thinks that the Premier would make promises like that during an election season but leave these kids and these families behind for six years?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "I think that sometimes politicians say things and they don’t realize that there are repercussions to those things and people believe that, when we say something, you’re going to follow through with actions. And in this fall economic statement, there isn’t any reference to the OAP and access to OAP core service funding. That is a real issue when it comes to families who have children with autism.", "I remember that statement the Premier made, but also, there was a woman who actually had her van in front of his office on a hunger strike because her child needed those autism services. That’s what it comes to. Families get so desperate when governments don’t pay attention to the needs of the children." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ric Bresee", "text": [ "I’ve listened and greatly appreciated the presentation from the member opposite. There are a number of things that you spoke about in your presentation, and of course, this being a fall economic statement, there are a huge number of things that are actually included in that statement. As I’ve said in this House before, I come from a long time in municipal politics, and one of the things that has been included in this particular fall economic statement is the increase to the OMPF funding made available to all of the small and rural municipalities. A 20% increase in that total fund will be a huge boon to the municipality. Will the member actually indicate her support for that increase?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "There are some things in the fall economic statement that are helping. I think the member from Niagara talked about ALS funding. There’s an Ontario Medical Expense Tax Credit. I don’t know how that’s going to work, but under that Ontario medical tax credit, I foresee it encouraging privatization in the health care system, and I don’t think that’s the way Ontario’s direction should go.", "But with respect to your municipal increase: Cities are struggling, and they’ve asked for this government to give them some broader powers in order to create some of those economic opportunities. If this is going to help cities alleviate some of that, I certainly would support that specific part of the fall economic statement. But that doesn’t mean the whole piece of this is something that’s supportable in its entirety." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "In this fall economic statement, we see that—we just debated the opposition day motion, Homes Ontario, giving government a good proposal to help home building that we need in our region. It’s not just for the south because, as I can tell you—in Kapuskasing, I was talking to the mayor—we have homelessness in northern Ontario. Our winter is starting. We’ve already had snow. So the mayor was asking—we need to help to build homes, but yet their increase to the municipality is 21% for OPP services. So this $100,000 he was talking about is not cutting it. He said, “It’s not enough. We need more.”", "But to get back to the housing, we propose—why would this government not listen? Because we used to do it. Conservative governments used to do this. So why is this government tellement entêté, so stubborn, in not building—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "I think sometimes what happens is, we get so rooted in the fact that if somebody else proposes something that’s going to help, the automatic reaction is defensiveness: “It’s not going to work.” We need to open our minds to conversations about a full solution when it comes to housing, and I believe the Homes Ontario program is essential to getting everyone housed in Ontario because people who are unhoused—it actually costs society more; it actually is not good for our economy.", "Like I said, people who are housed in my neighbourhood don’t want to see people who are homeless. Even people who are housed want to see that homelessness situation resolved. I think that’s part of the problem: Political ideology gets in the way of good solutions." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Deepak Anand", "text": [ "I was listening to the member, and she was talking about housing. If you really look at housing, if you start with—actually, I remember when we came to Canada and started our first home; it was in Brampton, 71 Native Landing. So there’s land, then you build the house with the materials and then the labour. If you put these things together—if you want to talk about the affordability, if you want to talk about the cost of the housing, the cost of material, if it is low, means the cost of the whole house will be low.", "So I just want to ask the member: When it comes to affordability and what we’re doing through the FES by reducing the cost of the material by reducing the gas tax, what is your opinion about the carbon tax, which is actually adding to the cost of that material? If you want to support our province with affordability, with better housing prices, what’s your opinion about the carbon tax?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "I understand some of the statements the government has made are about giving people $200 cheques because of the carbon tax, and they feel that this is going to make a difference to people’s lives. It’s a one-time solution. It’s $200.", "I’m sure the members have heard from their constituents whether it’s a good idea or not. I know when I was out this weekend, many people said, “I’m going to be donating that to people who need it, in shelters, the homelessness programs.” That’s where this—$3 billion, Speaker. That’s where we can actually make such a difference in people’s lives.", "And I’m going to say it again: People who have homes don’t want to see people on the street homeless. That $200—$3 billion—can make a difference to people who are homeless and people who actually own homes as well." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I want to thank my friend from London for her remarks.", "When you were talking about how government invests, I’m contrasting that to the debate we had earlier this afternoon on the need for a new housing strategy in Ontario. As you just said, the cost of somebody being unhoused, unwell, is terrible for the person; it’s also extremely expensive for the province. I think about what you’re saying—make that investment, let the government flow funds so people can get access to affordable credit to build non-market homes—and I contrast it to just handing out $200 cheques or back-of-the-envelope estimates on a $100-billion tunnel or transit projects that can’t seem to get fixed or an entire cabinet here—the most expensive cabinet in Ontario history, over here. I don’t recognize the Conservative Party anymore. I honestly don’t recognize the Conservative Party anymore.", "Can you make a final plea, please, to the folks opposite that we use the taxpayers’ money appropriately?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "I think what I want to end off by saying is: Imagine that you were hurt. Imagine that you lost your job. Imagine you couldn’t continue to pay your bills. Imagine that you couldn’t access health care because you didn’t have money for medication and didn’t have benefits, and so you got evicted and you’re on the street—imagine all that.", "1600", "But in the end, imagine if that was you. I want the government members to really put themselves in a position of someone who went through all those tragedies and is living on the street. Imagine yourself living on the street, if you were there in that position, what would you want people in leadership positions to do to help to solve the housing crisis?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Stephen Blais", "text": [ "I will be sharing my time this afternoon with my colleague from Ottawa South.", "What can I say about the biggest spending budget of all time, the fall economic statement from this 2024 budget that will show a $6.6-billion deficit? In fact, under this Conservative government, Ontario has amassed $106 billion in new debt. That’s over 25% of Ontario’s total debt of $408 billion. So in six and a half years, this so-called Conservative government has amassed 25% of Ontario’s debt over 157 years since Confederation.", "With a population of roughly 16 million people, that means every child born in Ontario will inherit about $25,000 in government debt from the moment they’re born. That’s the price of a small car. That used to be a down payment on a home in Ontario. That certainly used to be enough to pay for university in Ontario—or college. And that is the debt that every child in Ontario will inherit.", "So the question has to be, what are we getting for all of this massive, record-setting debt, the highest sub-sovereign debt in the world? Well, that highest sub-sovereign debt in the world is buying two and a half million Ontarians without a family doctor. That record spending is set to see that number exceed four million Ontarians without a family doctor by 2026. That will mean one in four Ontarians won’t have access to a family doctor.", "Even those Ontarians who are lucky enough to have a doctor may have to drive excessive distances and times to see them. There are 650,000 people that live more than 50 kilometres away from their family doctor and 150,000 Ontarians live 200 kilometres away from their family doctor. So the highest sub-sovereign debt in the world is buying millions of Ontarians with no family doctor at all and hundreds of thousands of our neighbours and friends who have to drive hours just to see one.", "But the crisis in health care doesn’t end there—not by a long shot. There are 200,000—200,000 of our neighbours, of our friends, of our family—waiting for diagnostic or surgical procedures. For the record spending, for the massive debt, surgical wait times under this Conservative government have gone up by 48%.", "On any given day, 2,000 people are getting care in hospital hallways. Now, I remember, in 2018, the Premier came to Orléans to kick off the province-wide election, and he promised to end hallway health care. But six years later, after record spending, after massive new debt—over $100 billion in new debt under this government—hallway health care is worse than before they were elected.", "This hallway health care, these lengthy wait times, this crisis in the system has resulted in over $2 billion in lost economic activity. This is lost wages, this is lost productivity, this is lost spending power, all of that because the record spending—the $100 billion in new debt, the largest sub-sovereign debt in the world—isn’t focused on delivering the best health care for Ontarians.", "Well, Madam Speaker, it gets worse. There is something worse than simply losing $2 billion in economic activity. There is something worse than 200,000 people waiting for surgery. There is even something worse than 2.5 million people without a family doctor. The crisis in health care, after all of this record spending and debt, has led to 11,000 Ontarians—11,000 of our neighbours, of our friends, of our family, our constituents—dying while waiting on a wait-list for a diagnostic service or a surgery. That is a crisis that could have been avoided if spending on health care was focused on those areas where it’s needed most.", "Under this government, Ontario has seen enormous erosion in our economic activity. We have the highest small business taxes in the country. There are 50,000 fewer jobs in Ontario’s labour market. There are 130,000 more people in Ontario unemployed than in 2018. And Ontario lost 36,000 construction jobs and 8,000 manufacturing jobs just in the last 12 months.", "And what have we seen from the government? We’ve seen them vote against cutting the HST off of home heating to provide families relief. We’ve seen them vote against cutting taxes or providing parents with a tax credit for the sports and extracurricular activities they put their children in. And we’ve seen a government be against the small business tax credit that my colleague here in the Legislature has proposed.", "So, while the government is amassing record deficits, enormous spending, has created a crisis in health care, families across the province are suffering in an affordability crisis the likes of which we haven’t seen in a generation." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "I recognize the member from Ottawa South." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Fraser", "text": [ "I’m glad to have the opportunity to speak to the fall economic statement and this bill.", "First, I want to say, most of us watch TV, so we’ve all seen the wonderful ad that’s being produced. The government spent about $35 million on its own advertising last year. It says, “It’s where you live.” So I want to describe the other side of that coin, “It’s where you live.”", "Where you live is a place where 11,000 people died on a wait-list for a diagnostic procedure or surgery; where emergency rooms—a record last year—closed; where hallway health care has doubled. Hallway health care has moved from the hallway to the parking lot, with emergency room closures and twice as many people being treated in inappropriate spaces: closets, hallways, utility rooms, places that aren’t there for people to be treated in. This is the Premier who was going to end hallway health care. That’s the Ontario that you’re living in. It’s an Ontario where we can’t get home care supplies and drugs to people who need it, who are being cared for at home—some people at the end of their lives, who need palliative medication. Because of a government decision, people weren’t getting the care or the supplies, the drugs that they needed just for some dignity at the end of their lives.", "1610", "And here’s the kicker—and my colleague talked about this. Here’s the Ontario that you live in: 2.5 million Ontarians don’t have a family doctor—2.5 million. That’s going to grow to 4.4 million in 2026. Of those people, 32,000 live in the Premier’s riding, Etobicoke North—32,000 people. Folks of Etobicoke North, this is where you live, and if you do the math, one in four of you—more than one in four of you—doesn’t have a family doctor. That’s the Etobicoke North that you live in.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Fraser", "text": [ "Well, since my colleagues are so interested, Solicitor General, you have 19,000 people in your riding who don’t have a family doctor; member for Oakville North–Burlington, 17,000. The Associate Minister of Energy-Intensive Industries—you should get some intensity around this—you have 17,000 people who don’t have a family doctor; the member from Brantford–Brant, 12,000. I mentioned the member from Etobicoke North, the Premier, 32,000; the member from Mississauga–Malton, 28,000; and the member from Etobicoke–Lakeshore, 21,000. Now you’re the best out of the Etobicokes, but it’s pretty bad.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Fraser", "text": [ "Oh, and the House leader: 25,000. The member from Essex: 13,000.", "Now, I haven’t done the math on all of this, on the populations in your ridings, but whatever the math is, this is really serious.", "And the member from Bay of Quinte knows it’s 39,000; 39,000 people in his riding don’t have a family doctor. That’s the Bay of Quinte that they live in.", "So here’s the thing: They call it “primary care” for a reason, because it has to come first. It has to come first. And the reason it comes first is it’s pretty hard to get a diagnosis or a reference if you don’t have a family doctor. Where do you go? Emergency rooms, walk-in clinics—nobody has your history. This is a big problem.", "I haven’t broken down yet—but trust me, I will—how many children don’t have a family doctor and are having to wait.", "I know members on the other side don’t like to hear this. So if you don’t like to hear it, maybe the best thing to do is light a fire under the Premier’s chair and make sure that he gets his Minister of Health to do it. It’s a serious problem. It’s not one to make light of. For the life of me, I cannot understand how it could happen that for a Premier of Ontario that more than one in four people in his riding don’t have a family doctor. You’d think it would be all hands on deck. You’d think he’d have a plan. You’d think it would be like a Marshall Plan, like what happened in Europe after the war.", "It’s a serious thing. There’s no plan. There’s a press release here and there.", "You know, the Premier did come out and say, “We’re not going to have international students coming into our medical schools.” Well, that should take care of about 10 spaces.", "All we’re simply asking for, and what we should have seen in the FES, is a plan to fix this. There is no plan. And if you don’t have your health, not much else matters.", "Now, I know the government is pretty proud of their $200 cheques. And, you know what, some people are really going to be able to use those. There’s a bunch of people that—everybody will be able to use them. But I want to talk to you about a cab driver who brought me here to Queen’s Park. He came here from Afghanistan about 10 years ago. He works 12 to 15 hours a day, seven days a week. He’s got four kids; he never sees them. He says to me in the cab, “Look, it’s not that I can’t get ahead. It’s not that I can’t keep my head above water. It’s just that I can’t catch up.” Yes, that $200 is going to help him buy the groceries next week, but not the week after. It will help him pay the rent next month, but not the month after. It might help him buy his kids winter coats, but not their winter boots.", "People need a lasting solution. They need permanent solutions. And the cynicism of the $200 is not about the politics of it or buying elections or buying votes, it’s, to the people who really need it, literally teasing them: “Here’s something. It’s not going to fix your problem, but here it is.” That’s their problem with it. That’s why people are cynical. Two hundred dollars will help you buy your groceries this week, not next week. It will help you pay your rent this month, not next month. It will help you buy your kids winter boots, but not their coats.", "They need permanent solutions, not trinkets and baubles. Sure, it’s going to help them, but you’re not giving them what they need." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Deepak Anand", "text": [ "One of the best days of the year is Halloween, when I see the young men and young kids, men and women, as [inaudible].", "I have two of my own children. I know there are families who want kids, and there are families who hoped not to have kids, but then there’s a third type, who want kids and do not have kids.", "Madam Speaker, this is a government which is for the people. We are introducing a new tax credit to cover for 25% of eligibility fertility treatment, which will nearly triple the number of government-funded IVF cycles available to those individuals who face a challenge in making a dream a reality—to build a family. So my question is very simple. You have a chance to stand up and support those Ontarians. Are you going to support this fall economic statement?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Fraser", "text": [ "I worked with a government that brought in the funding for IVF, so, yes, I think I’m supportive of it. But the thing I’m not supportive of is the fact that 28,000 people in your riding, sir, don’t have a family doctor; they’re looking for one. What are you doing for them? It makes it hard for me to support you—when you’re not taking care of the thing that’s most basic and most primary, which is for them to get a family doctor. That’s 28,000 people, sir—28,000—that’s probably close to one in four; it’s probably like the Premier’s riding. It’s a big problem. I’m trying to make a point." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "My question is for the member from Orléans.", "You are right; this government has increased the net debt by $100 billion. They actually have a per capita loan of $26,000—you said $24,000, but it’s even higher than that: $26,600, for every man, woman and child.", "So, clearly, this government is spending big. They’re spending $100 billion on a fantasy tunnel. They’ve spent almost $1 billion to support a luxury spa at Ontario Place. And now they’re going to spend $3 billion to give cheques for $200 that most people understand is nothing but an election buy-off.", "We just finished a debate on Homes Ontario—the bill that we proposed. I noticed you didn’t participate in the debate or vote on it. Do you not think it’s important that we support and spend money on homes in this province; not just on these giveaways for this government?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Stephen Blais", "text": [ "I’m always happy to talk about the record irresponsible spending and massive debts of this so-called Conservative government, which has driven Ontario’s debt up by more than 25% in only six and a half years. Their spending priorities are not the priorities that I would have. They’re not investing in the kinds of health care services, education services and infrastructure services that I would like to see in Orléans or in Ottawa or, truly, across the province.", "In fact, I believe there are something like six pages of transit investments in this fall economic statement and not a single mention of the city of Ottawa—in six pages of transit investments, in the fall economic statement.", "Yes, I believe there is a role for government to play in encouraging the creation of new homes and investing in housing.", "Unfortunately, I personally didn’t have the money available to pay to access the NDP plan on their website, which is one of the reasons why I abstained from voting on that today." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "The member from Timiskaming–Cochrane has a point of order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "Thank you for your indulgence, Speaker.", "I’d like to welcome the students from Iroquois Falls Secondary School here, all the way from Iroquois Falls in my riding.", "Thanks a lot for making the trip." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Pursuant to standing order 50(c), I am now required to interrupt the proceedings and announce that there have been six and a half hours of debate on the motion for second reading of this bill. This debate will therefore be deemed adjourned unless the government House leader directs the debate to continue.", "Government House leader." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "Speaker, please adjourn the debate.", "Second reading debate deemed adjourned." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Orders of the day? Government House leader." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "No further business, Speaker." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "There being no further business, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow morning, 9 a.m.", "The House adjourned at 1620.", "", "", "", "", "" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "I rise today to speak to Bill 216, the Building Ontario For You Act (Budget Measures).", "I want to start by saying a positive thing about this bill: The funding for in vitro fertilization for people struggling to start a family is positive news. I know that families, including families in my riding of Don Valley West, would value that support. If only it weren’t tangled up in a spooky web of failures on the part of this government and their failed fall economic statement.", "Let’s talk about the big picture. Ontario’s real GDP growth, as outlined in the fall economic statement, is projected to ease from 1.4% in 2023 to 0.9% in 2024. That’s shrinking, Speaker. The decline in GDP growth this year compared to last year means job losses or layoffs in many families, and loss of sales and revenues from many small businesses.", "Under Doug Ford, Ontarians are enjoying a standard of living equivalent to Alabama and yet we are still falling behind. This year alone, that state is going to grow more than 2.5 times faster than Doug Ford’s Ontario, 2.6% versus 0.9%. So there’s no better time to cut the small business tax rate than now to drive investment, save jobs, and yet this fall economic statement included no tax cuts for small businesses.", "As the Ontario Chamber of Commerce pointed out in its February Ontario Economic Report, “Small businesses are less confident ... than larger businesses ... due to challenges with repaying debt, fluctuations in consumer spending, inflationary pressures, and workforce-related challenges such as mental health.” So what would they do with a tax cut? They would pay their employees more and invest in our economy. That would help us grow the economy and grow the pie for all Ontarians.", "Furthermore, we know that there have been 36,000 job losses in the construction sector in Ontario alone this year. Over 8,000 more jobs disappeared in the manufacturing sector. We’ve got a government that talks about living within its means, but what did they do? They took a budget of $214 billion from the spring and added $4 billion in spending—most of it in the form of $200 cheques; I’ll talk more about that in a moment, Speaker.", "Instead of giving families the permanent tax cut that this government promised in 2018, they’re asking them to be happy with a one-time rebate. Speaker, that rebate costs money—about $3 billion, as I said—and given that the budget is not balanced this year, the government will be borrowing money to pay for it. It will cost the taxpayers of Ontario about $100 million in interest costs alone to hand out those cheques. Speaker, there has never been a government that has spent so much to deliver so little.", "Over 200,000 people are still waiting for surgeries and diagnostic procedures, and over 11,000 died last year alone waiting for surgeries. Another 11,000 people died since 2018 due to opioid overdoses. We have a $16-billion school repair backlog and a $52-billion infrastructure deficit at the municipal level. It’s not a pretty picture in this Premier’s Ontario.", "Some 2.5 million people don’t have a family doctor while his friends who own nursing agencies got a billion dollars of taxpayer money last year alone. He spends millions of taxpayer dollars on ads to tell us great things are, but since he became Premier, unemployment is up 1% under this Premier, with 120,000 more people out of work.", "Rent is up by 83%. Food bank use is at an all-time high. The debt is up by over $100 billion under this government—hardly fiscally responsible. We owe more money per capita than ever before. Again, just to repeat it because it bears worth repeating, the government did not keep their 2018 promise to deliver an income tax cut for families.", "The Conservatives brag about creating manufacturing jobs, but let’s look at what StatsCan data shows. Surely, the government side won’t start discrediting StatsCan. StatsCan tells a different story than this government. Only 5,000 new manufacturing jobs have been created since they took office. The FES, the fall economic statement, shows that 32,000 fewer manufacturing jobs would be created between 2025 and 2027 versus that shown in the spring budget. So this government knows that job growth is slowing, meaning more families are worse off under this government, but you wouldn’t know it from their chest-beating and Super Bowl ads. It’s hard to believe a word they say.", "Here’s the real picture. This government has tunnel vision. Despite record spending, Ontario’s economy and people are worse off. Growth continues to slow and GDP per capita, a metric of financial well-being, is falling while debt per capita is rising. In fact, Ontario has two times the Canadian average of debt per capita because of this government’s misplaced spending priorities. It’s not a pretty picture.", "Every day, we feel the failing record of this government: record numbers of ER closures, record numbers of people without a family doctor, record-high rents. While the government says, “Believe us, things have never been better,” Ontarians know things have never been worse.", "1510", "The fall economic statement is a disappointment to families and small businesses getting that one-time payoff that will help with rent for one month but not the next. What they need are tax cuts. If the government is so proud of its collection of excessive tax revenues, why don’t they deliver a tax cut, like that proposed in my private member’s Bill 195, which would put up to $17,900 back into small businesses’ pockets?", "Instead of delivering the services we need, this Conservative government remains laser-focused on privatizing public services to line the pockets of their insider friends.", "It can’t have been a good morning for the Minister of Finance today after the Toronto board of trade and the Globe and Mail both criticized his fall economic statement. No wonder: There is some temporary relief in the form of a $200 cheque for families who need it, but those billionaires who don’t need it are getting it too.", "The board of trade said it would have preferred that $3 billion dollars go toward investments that improved productivity. As I said, that’s declining. We’re getting worse off in this province.", "The Globe and Mail says, “If there was any remaining doubt that Ontario’s Progressive Conservative government has lost all claim to fiscal prudence, it was removed by the province’s economic and fiscal update on Wednesday.” I couldn’t agree more.", "The government seems to want people to believe that rebate cheques are free, but the reality is that this government is spending more money than it is collecting from taxpayers. Common sense tells me that’s very expensive for something they’re touting as free.", "Let’s talk about housing since the minister didn’t want to. This is one of the most pressing issues facing the people of Ontario today. You’d think it would be worth mentioning. Even the National Post rightly pointed out that the minister “did not mention housing during his speech in the Legislature on Wednesday” and that “Ontario lowered its projections for how many new homes will get built, casting doubt on whether it can reach its goal of building 1.5 million homes by 2031.”", "“Casting doubt” is an understatement. As our Ontario Liberal leader, Bonnie Crombie, said to the media yesterday in the government’s private press room—another example of this government’s waste, costing $300,000 and duplicating the OLA one here in this building—there is “no conceivable way” the government can meet its housing target. That’s despite changing the rules of the game and the generally accepted definition of a home being a stand-alone, attached or rental unit. Does the government think Ontarians are not smart enough to understand that a temporary bed in a dorm is not a new housing unit? I hope not.", "Our leader Bonnie Crombie went on to say, “This government came in with” a goal of “1.5 million homes” to be built, “150,000 a year,” but “there are no incentives to build homes. Developers aren’t building homes. I’ll tell you what’s happening—construction workers are leaving the province of Ontario, and they’re going to Alberta and they’re going to BC because they are building homes there.”", "BC and Alberta are getting homes built for their residents, and surely the government members know that interest rates are the same there as they are here. When this government plays another one of its favourite games, the blame game, and says, “Oh, it’s not us; it’s high interest rates,” they lose and the people of Ontario lose.", "Why are we losing here on getting housing built? Only one reason: because of this Conservative government; because of their mishandling of the housing file; because they didn’t pass my colleague from Don Valley East Dr. Adil Shamji’s housing bill to build fourplexes; because they didn’t pass my colleague from Kanata–Carleton Karen McCrimmon’s bill to make it easier to convert commercial buildings to residential by removing height restrictions; because they won’t listen to their own experts, including those on the Housing Affordability Task Force; because of their misplaced priorities, which are too many to mention.", "But let me name a few:", "—closing down the Ontario Science Centre, a beloved institution in the Don Valley community, so that their insider friends can have a waterfront spa, another misplaced priority that will cost taxpayers billions;", "—because they were too busy accepting brown envelopes from their insider friends, who were set to make $8.3 billion off the greenbelt giveaway, now being investigated by the RCMP;", "—because they were too busy creating ministries and promotions for their members to give them all pay raises and creating the largest, most expensive cabinet in Ontario history;", "—because they were too busy hiring the most staffers of any Premier’s office in Ontario history—they have the most staffers on the sunshine list—to help the Premier get his misplaced priorities done for his insider friends.", "The Premier himself admitted that the tough cost of living is one of the reasons he gave promotions to three of his MPPs, topping up their salaries by more than $16,000 a year. Now, we have 73 of the 79 MPPs—92% of his MPPs—as ministers, PAs or associate ministers.", "I would love to hear the Premier or the Minister of Health brag about that the way they brag about how many people in Ontario have a family doctor, when they should be thinking about the 2.5 million people who don’t; when what they should be doing in this fall economic statement is addressing the health care catastrophe, as the OMA says, that they created when they ran nurses out of our health care system with their unconstitutional Bill 124 and continued to ignore the advice of the OMA on how to solve the family doctor crisis, while they hire yet another expert to write them a report that they likely will ignore.", "They need to get with the program, do their job and fund the creation of a centralized referral system like the doctors have asked for. They need to pay those family doctors what they’re worth, so they want to stay here and practise. They need to listen to the experts in all fields, including health care, who are telling them what they can do to provide relief today for the 2.5 million people who don’t have a family doctor.", "The Minister of Finance might also need a history lesson, maybe an economic one or maybe both. First of all, he is mistaken when he says there was no balanced budget under the Liberals. In fact, there was a surplus in 2006-07 and 2007-08. His government’s so-called path to balance has actually been a moving target, so we don’t know what to believe. They started their mandate saying the books will be balanced in four years. In the last couple of budgets, that was changed to two or three years. In all that time, they only managed to deliver a balanced budget once, in fiscal 2021-22, and that was only because the economy came roaring back after the severe economic contraction related to the pandemic. I will give them a break there: Restoring balance wasn’t easy following the pandemic, though they certainly don’t give the Liberals a break when the financial crisis hit in 2008, the dollar was at par and manufacturers were facing a challenge.", "Post-pandemic, even with all the federal help they are so quick to criticize, this government has not put forward a balanced budget. It’s time to stop talking about a path to balance, it’s time to stop talking about fiscal responsibility when what we have here is another fall economic statement that is fiscally irresponsible." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. David Piccini", "text": [ "Thank you to the member opposite for her remarks—a new member to this place. I always enjoy hearing her speak. I do. And you can tell where the Bonnie Crombie leader’s office gets their talking points into that speech.", "I just want to know, because I know this member has fiscal acumen, when the S&P bluntly put that our finances were in shambles and downgraded our credit rating and drove manufacturing jobs out of Ontario—putting it bluntly, the manufacturers who are now earning $14 million in payroll, we’re taxing that payroll in Windsor, thanks to this Premier’s investments. Is that a good thing for the province? Yes or no." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "Maybe I’ll just remind the member across—thank you for the question—that there was a global financial crisis in that time; the dollar was at par. So, yes, manufacturing was having a problem because the US could manufacture their own goods and we lost our competitive advantage as it came to the Canadian dollar.", "In terms of the payroll taxes: Taxes collected are up by this government. The Minister of Finance has said that himself. Certainly, there is opportunity to cut the tax rate, to give people a break, including small businesses who are struggling and who are supporting my bill to cut taxes by 50%." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "I agree completely that this is a government that’s awash in debt. Estimates are that every citizen in Ontario owes about $30,000 each to pay for this debt. By any measure, this government has—their net debt-to-GDP has been hovering at 39% and as high as 42.6% over their term. So this is a government that’s not managing their finances. They’re spending like drunken sailors.", "1520", "What I would like to also say—you read some of the headlines. One of the ones was what Global News said: “This is a government that should be truly red-faced” when it comes to the housing starts that are falling. They started off by crowing about the 1.5 million homes that they were going to build, which would have meant 150,000 starts a year. They dropped that to 125,000. Then they moved the goalposts again to 88,000 in 2024. And now they haven’t even made 81,000 this year.", "They went through the greenbelt scandal. They’re under RCMP investigation. Not one house was built. Do you think that is why they’re trying to turn away from housing and don’t mention it in this fall economic statement?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "Thank you for the question. Yes, the minister absolutely ignored the topic of housing. It’s one of the most important topics that I hear about in my riding in Don Valley West. I hear about the challenges people are having with skyrocketing rents, with the cost of putting food on their table. And this government continues to make reversal after reversal around housing policy. Developers are talking about the confusion that has created.", "Again, this government is happy to lay the blame at everyone else’s feet and not take accountability. They need to actually take accountability, listen to their Housing Affordability Task Force and come up with a new plan to get housing built." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "I want to thank the member for Don Valley West for her remarks here today, but your leader had the worst housing starts in the history of Mississauga. She voted against 90% of the projects that were going to be built in Mississauga. Not only that; when we wanted to remove DC charges for purpose-built rentals and affordable homes, she was totally against that and sent a letter out criticizing us for doing that.", "Now, thank God we have a mayor in Mississauga—the new Carolyn Parrish. She wants to cut development charges by 50% to build homes. Right now, I see every councillor in Mississauga out there trying to build homes. Even in the Lakeview development in my riding where we’re building 16,000 homes, Bonnie Crombie was totally against that development, to increase the development and build more affordable homes. How can you stand here and talk about building homes—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "I thank the member.", "Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "Well, I don’t see the member of Mississauga–Lakeshore moving out of his riding, so things must be pretty good in Mississauga.", "Our leader was mayor and working under this Premier. This Premier has created nothing but confusion when it comes to housing rules. He has voted down our members’ bills on building fourplexes. The Premier has voted down a bill to convert commercial buildings to residential buildings. Those are things that could actually get housing built now.", "I’m focused on my work here at the province of Ontario. I’m not looking in the rear-view mirror." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Bhutila Karpoche", "text": [ "I thank the member for her presentation. I’m sure the member remembers that, in 2010, under a Liberal government, rebate cheques were sent out to Ontarians just before an election, and the cheques were signed by the Premier. It literally read, “Sincerely, Dalton McGuinty, Premier of Ontario.”", "So my question to the member is—the member disagrees, and in many ways, I agree with her position on that. But my question is, was it wrong then for the Premier to send out rebate cheques before an election?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "Thank you, first of all, to the member for her question. There’s one key difference: There was a surplus before those cheques were mailed out. This government is in a deficit.", "I will also remind the member that, during the NDP government, there was not one year of a balanced budget.", "So while we can talk about tactics, we have, again, put forward a number of proposals that would actually make life more affordable for families, including cutting taxes, helping this government keep their promise—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "I can’t hear the member." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "—to cut taxes on middle-income families and small business." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon", "text": [ "I just want to compliment the member from Don Valley West on her great speech. It is always terrific when we hear from someone with, as the member from Northumberland–Peterborough South said, such strong financial acumen, being a chartered accountant herself. It’s great to have your expertise when you speak about the fall economic statement.", "Now, you’ve done a lot for small businesses in your short time here, including an upcoming private member’s bill. What would you have liked to see in the fall economic statement to support small businesses? Because we value our mom-and-pop shops, and we value our workers and entrepreneurs and business people." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "Thank you to my colleague from Beaches–East York for her kind comments and for her question. Yes, it was under a previous government, a Liberal government, that the small business tax rate was last cut by 50%. We’ve proposed that exact same measure again in my Bill 195, cutting taxes on small businesses.", "I would have liked to see the government set aside money to actually help small business owners. We all know they are struggling, as I said, from the Ontario Chamber of Commerce report, with higher costs, debt burdens, just trying to keep their doors open given lower consumer spending. This would have been the perfect opportunity for this government to actually support small businesses, who create two thirds of the private-sector jobs in our economy." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Graydon Smith", "text": [ "You know, my riding gets mischaracterized a lot, because we’ve got a lot of people who don’t live in lakefront cottages. What we’ve got is a lot of people who get up every day, go to work and work really, really hard to make enough money to put food on the table and provide for their families. That happens all over Ontario, but in my riding, it happens too.", "Every day, people go up to the gas pump and they fill up a truck, which they need to work, and it probably costs them close to $200 to fill that truck. It costs less because of what our government did and extended with the fuel tax cut.", "But I want the member to tell the people in my riding who can have a tank of gas purchased for them through that $200 rebate why they shouldn’t get it." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "Thank you to the member for the question. First of all, I’ll speak to the 19,500 people in his riding who don’t have a family doctor, and I feel for them.", "The gas tax rebate is about $11 a month per family, according to this government’s own math. As I said, a one-time cheque for $200 will help for one month. It might fill up their truck gas tank one month, but it won’t do much the next. It would have been much more meaningful to actually give them a tax cut—in fact, the exact tax cut that was promised—" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Graydon Smith", "text": [ "They need the money today. They need it now." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "Well, this government could have cut those taxes since 2018, when they first made that promise. That would have put thousands of dollars back in their pockets.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "We’re going to go to further debate when the House comes to order.", "I recognize the member from Niagara Falls." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "It’s been an interesting afternoon, to say the least, talking about the fall economic statement. But I’m going to start off on something that’s positive in the fall economic statement. That really doesn’t happen very often, but I thought I’d do it because a good friend of mine Steve Gallagher has ALS, and he has been fighting for a number of years to get funding, more education. He is an incredible warrior. He has his family supporting him, his friends, people who he worked with.", "The government is giving $13 million to ALS to help with research, to help with running the organization. So somebody always asks me, “Is there anything good in the economic statement?” I want to say to Steve, congratulations. Congratulations to ALS Canada for getting this into the—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "I’m not so sure the rest of my comments are going to be quite as good, but I love Steve. I’ve known him a long time, and these types of diseases, when they hit us—he has fought back incredibly, so I do appreciate my colleagues on the other side acknowledging that as well.", "But what I also want to say that’s not in the budget that I think should be in the budget is money for autism, where we have 72,000 on a wait-list. I think that’s wrong. I think we should be taking a look at those types of things. You take a look at the Boys and Girls Club; they haven’t had core funding now for over 10 years, and they’re dealing with mental health issues all the time. Those types of things are what I like to see in a fall economic statement. Unfortunately, they’re not there.", "1530", "I am going to get off subject just a little bit, not really because it’s been raised a couple of times. I’ve raised this a number of times. A lot of people here may or may not know that I came from the auto sector. I was president of my union. I worked on an assembly line. I spent a lot of time on the assembly line and then worked in the machining lines. But when I became president, it was during the time—it was talked about by other people here—where our dollar went to $1.12. I don’t know if anybody remembers that. We had what was called a petrodollar. I know there are some people—they’re not here right now; I guess you can’t say that. Anyway, they were elected in that particular Harper government. The dollar went to a buck 12. What it did is, it allowed the West to be very prosperous.", "Unfortunately, in the province of Ontario, it affected us, and it really affected us in the auto sector, where I worked in the parts sector. So not only did we have to compete with a high dollar, we also had to compete with Mexico and some of the southern states. So those 300,000 manufacturing jobs that left were not just a cause of anything other than we had priorities wrong. The Harper government had their priorities wrong. They wanted a high dollar because it was good for the oil sector. It was great for the West. It wasn’t good for out here. I watched, because I participated in taking over plants. I participated in closures. I participated in fighting for our members over and over again.", "And Jim Stanford, who I know most people here know, was the economist. You could talk to him all you want. But that was what caused the manufacturing crisis in the province. It was the high dollar.", "So what do we have today, as the Conservatives are trying to take credit for the uptick in the auto sector? We have a low dollar. We can compete anywhere in the world with a dollar around 80 cents to 84 cents. Our dollar is at 72 cents, so we are very, very competitive. That’s why companies want to come to Ontario, and, quite frankly, come to Canada, because of our low dollar.", "Our other advantage—which we’re going to make a mistake if we don’t smarten up soon. One of the other advantages you have to bring in companies to Canada is because we have a benefit package. We have a publicly funded health care system that uses that as an advantage when they’re at the bargaining table for their members, and companies like the fact that they’re not paying the cost of health care. We’re going to lose that advantage if we continue to go down the road of privatizing our health care—I’m saying to the Conservatives, because that’s where you’re heading. You want to go down and privatize, but you’re going to lose a big advantage that we have for keeping workers working here in the province of Ontario. I wanted to make sure I mentioned that because it’s been raised a number of times here, surprisingly.", "I have lots of issues that I want to talk about that aren’t in here. I’m going to talk about some things in my riding, which I think is fair when I’m standing up here. You mentioned a bit about GO trains in the fall economic statement—no details; just saying, “Well, we’re going to do whatever.” I want to be clear that when I ran in 2014—it’s a long time ago, and I know, surprising to the Conservatives, I’ve run four other times and continue to win. But it was the Conservative candidate—twice, not once, who twice ran against me, the same guy—and he said no to GO. They said they wouldn’t put GO in Niagara because they wouldn’t do it until they balanced the budget.", "In that same election—I don’t give credit to the Liberals, but it was the Liberals who brought in the planning grant for the new Niagara Falls hospital. That same candidate—and you can check it in all the press because I’ve got all the clippings if you want to see them; I just happened to save those. They said no to the new hospital until they balanced the budget. And today we are at the highest level in our budget in our history. So that meant that that hospital wouldn’t even have started.", "I disagree that hospitals should take 10 years to go from a planning grant to shovels in the ground. I think that’s something where we should all work together, whether you’re Conservatives, Liberals, NDP or independents. We have to find a way to get that hospital built quicker.", "If you take a look at where we were 10 years ago and where we are today, it’s night and day. We’ve gone through a pandemic. Our population in Niagara is shifting. For some reason, everybody has found out what a beautiful place Niagara is. They’re all coming down here. They found out what Niagara-on-the-Lake is like. They found out what Fort Erie is like, Niagara Falls, Port Colborne, Welland—they’re all coming to Niagara. So we need to find a way make sure that our hospitals are built quicker, and we certainly know that if you’re going to build them, they should make sure they’re going to be able to take the influx of new people, particularly new Canadians.", "I’ll stay on health care for a minute, before I get into my speech. In Fort Erie, 40% of the people that live in Fort Erie are seniors, and as we know, we’re all aging, right across this province. We’re all going to be seniors; I’m getting there quicker than probably some in this room. But at the end of the day, that’s where we’re headed. We’re heading to have more and more people being 75, more and more being 80. In Fort Erie, we have to drive down the QEW to get to Niagara Falls hospital, so it makes no sense to me that Niagara Health and this government have cut down the urgent care centre from 24/7 down to 10 hours a day. It makes absolutely no sense. And when I say why it doesn’t make sense: because during the winter, we have snow storms that have closed that highway—not once, not twice, but a number of times. We’ve had ice storms, and people need to get to the hospital when they need it.", "The other thing about Fort Erie, and they’ve been arguing this—I’ve got to congratulate Mayor Redekop. He has gone to the government, he’s gone to the president of Niagara Health. We have a citizens’ group that are saying, “We need our hospital open 24/7 for urgent care.”", "When I talk to doctors that are in the emergency room in St. Catharines and in Niagara Falls, do you know what they tell me? “We need our urgent care centres open right across the province.” I say, “Why is that?” They say, “Because if people go to an urgent care centre, they’re not coming to the emergency rooms. They’re not tying up the emergency rooms.” So it makes no sense to me that in the economic statement, it doesn’t say we’re going to open our urgent care centre, not only in Fort Erie, but also in Port Colborne. Because they continue to grow, and continue to grow with seniors.", "I wanted to make sure I got that in. I’m glad I got the GO train in and got to talk about GO trains and talk about the hospital.", "Let’s talk about affordability and what we’ve gone through. It’s absolutely incredible to me—and I’ve said this before in the House. It’s the cards that you’re dealt. I know somebody made a joke about how some of our members are playing cards or something in their ridings, which was not nice and wasn’t fair. But the cards that I was dealt when I was kid, four and five years old: My family lived in poverty. I relied on food banks. I relied, quite frankly, on the firefighters that brought my Christmas presents till I was about eight years old.", "And today, in one of the richest provinces in the country, if not the richest, we have more people using food banks today than at any time in our history. The Niagara Falls food bank, Project Share—I go in there all the time and talk to them, and they say they can’t keep up. They can’t keep up.", "Toronto: The food banks are saying that they can’t keep up. As we say, during this entire debate, we’re saying—well, the Premier said it; I can say that. The Premier said, “We’ve never been better off today at any time in our history.” And I say to the Premier: I’m not sure that’s accurate. We have an affordability crisis, whether it’s that you can’t afford to buy groceries. Seniors are really struggling, and I talk to seniors every day, because one of my offices is in the Lions, and a lot of seniors go there, and they’re telling me that they’re skipping meals. They’ll have breakfast and then they’ll have supper. They do that a lot of times with their medication too, their prescription drugs and stuff; they skip because they don’t have the money to pay. So I’m saying that we have to fix the affordability crisis.", "And then I have my daughter. I love my daughter Jacqueline. And happy Halloween to everybody—I’m hoping to get back to Niagara Falls to hand out candy, but I got on this agenda a little later than I anticipated; I might not make it. My daughter Jacqueline has got a good job, a wonderful kid; she lives at home because she can’t afford to move out. This government, in 2018, took rent controls off new builds. People say to me, “Well, what’s that do?” That means that it allowed the rates to go like this. So we got into renovictions. Our seniors got renovicted probably more than anybody. They renovict you; they’re paying $800, and they’ve already got the ads in the paper and they’re now $1,700, $1,800, $1,900 to get an apartment.", "1540", "In Fort Erie, Niagara Falls and Niagara-on-the-Lake, which is my riding, the wait times are between 12 and 18 years for an affordable apartment—a wait-list.", "How did the rents go up? In 2018, you took rent controls off new builds. I’m saying to this government—it’s not in the fall economic statement here—put rent controls back on those buildings. Have rent controls so that people can rent and can live. And do you know who it’s for? I’m looking across at my colleagues. I’m looking down here at some of the independents and the Liberals, some of the new people who just got elected. It’s for our kids. It’s for our grandkids. And quite frankly, in some cases, it’s for our sanity, because we love our children, but we don’t want them living with us until they’re 35 and 36 years old—I’m sorry; I don’t. I like hanging out, watching the Buffalo Bills play—I love the Bills—in my boxer shorts. I can’t do that with my daughter at home." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Chris Glover", "text": [ "Nobody wants to see you." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "Nobody wants to see me in my boxer shorts anyway." ] }, { "speaker": "Interjection", "text": [ "Do it for Wayne." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "Exactly.", "There are things that we could have put in this that would have made life easier.", "You can talk about the $200—I don’t think anybody is going to say that you don’t need the $200. I think it could have been done a lot differently, quite frankly.", "I don’t think Drake, who I love, by the way—big Raptors fan—needs $200. I’m going to ask my colleagues across the room: Do you guys think Drake needs $200? Everybody on this side is answering. Anybody on that side?", "Well, what about Weston, who owns the grocery stores? Do you think he needs $200? I’m going to say, probably not. He made enough money when he played around with the prices of bread that he’s okay for a while.", "What about Mitch Marner, who I love—great hockey player. We all love the Leafs. Well, most of us love the Leafs. I’m a Sabres fan, but I do like the Leafs. Do you think Mitch Marner is sitting at home—“Jeez, I hope Premier Ford gives me $200 so I can pay off my Visa card after Christmas?” What are we thinking here?", "Are there people hurting in this province? According to you, they’re better off today than they were when you got in government—it was about six years ago. It’s not accurate.", "I’m going to challenge everybody here—because I have encampments in my riding. Who would have thought, six years ago, when you guys took over government, that we’d have people living in encampments? Think about that. Oh, my God, it breaks my heart every time I drive by one. And they’re not just in Niagara Falls, by the way. I’m sure they’re in Kitchener. I’m sure they’re in Sudbury. I’m sure they’re in—I can’t remember all the ones you guys have. I’m sure they’re in Sam’s riding. I’m sure they’re in Toronto. I’m sure they’re in Hamilton. I know they’re in Peterborough. We’ve got lots of problems up in Peterborough." ] }, { "speaker": "Interjection", "text": [ "Burlington." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "Burlington.", "So we’re not better off—nothing, nothing.", "Even the big-city mayors—which was created, quite frankly, by this government, giving them the extra powers—are crying to this government, “You’ve got to fix the problem with encampments. You’ve got to invest. You’ve got to do something about it.” These guys talk about small business. It’s hurting the communities. They need housing. Let’s get them some housing. Let’s find out how we go about doing that. Work with the big-city mayors to fix the problem—nothing, nothing in the economic statement.", "I’ve got a number of things here before I get on with my speech that I have to get to; I’ve just got to find them. I talked about urgent care, groceries.", "Oh, here’s the other one that—jeez, it’s just amazing. Do you know that we’re short doctors in the province of Ontario? Does anybody know that? We need 106 family doctors in Niagara Falls.", "And they’re closing urgent care centres. It’s amazing to me. I think it was my colleague from up north who said there were closures in 2023—he said 1,200; the number I have is 1,000, so we’ll split the difference. We’ll say 1,100 urgent care and emergency rooms closed, and most were up north. But I’m going to tell you, I don’t live up north. I live an hour and 15 minutes from Toronto. Port Colborne: hours cut and closed; Fort Erie: hours cut and closed; Niagara-on-the-Lake—how many of you have been to Niagara-on-the-Lake? Put your hand up. I’ve seen you guys drinking down in Niagara-on-the-Lake. You can put your hands up. You guys come down to my riding all the time; I appreciate it. I am disappointed when you come down to my riding and you don’t ask me out for dinner. Nobody has called me to go out for a pop or anything—nothing.", "But Niagara-on-the-Lake had their hospital closed. Even in St. Catharines we had two hospitals close. Think about that. So in our area—Welland had their hospital close and took services out. I talk about this—how much time have I got for my speech here?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Two and a half minutes." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "Okay, I might not get to it.", "So, in Niagara Falls, we took services out of Niagara Falls. Yes, we’re getting a new hospital; it’s about four and a half to five or five and a half years away.", "How many have been to Niagara Falls and heard that people go there for their honeymoon? Put your hand up—participate, absolutely. You know what? You can come to Niagara Falls and you can make babies. But you know what you can’t do in Niagara Falls because of the cuts? You can’t deliver babies in Niagara Falls. Think about that. One of the seven wonders of the world—who would not like to have on their birth certificate, “I was born in Niagara Falls”? Think about that, right? You can’t do that anymore. That doesn’t make any sense to me. It could be a tourist: “Come to Niagara Falls; make a baby. Nine months later, come back. Get a birth certificate with Niagara Falls on it.” It’s not a bad idea, but they cut it.", "They cut mental health out of Niagara Falls.", "I’ve got one more; I’ve got to get to this. This was driving me nuts and I’m not going to be able to find my notes, but I’m going to tell you something: You guys should be ashamed of yourselves on what you’re doing with advertising in every single newspaper, every single TV show and every single radio station in our schools. You know, I don’t mind if you do it. Go ahead and do it; I understand the game. I understand that we all have money and we do things. I put things in the paper. But you know what? You’re using taxpayers’ money.", "I’m a baseball fan and I’m watching the Dodgers and the Yankees play. Seventh inning, I think it was, what comes on? An ad about what a great province we are, that we’re better off than we were six years ago. And I don’t have a problem with it. You can do that. You know what the problem is? You’re doing it with taxpayers’ dollars. And you know who said he’s never do it? Anybody know? Help me out over here. I know you guys know. Who said he’d never do that? Because Wynne did it when they were in power, and a number of them—I’ve got a video up on social media if you guys want to check it out—but Wynne did it. Premier Ford said, “I will never do that. I will never use taxpayers’ dollars that way.”", "You know what? We’re close to $40 million that you have spent of taxpayers’ dollars doing partisan ads. It’s absolutely wrong in the province of Ontario. Take that $40 million and put it in our food banks. Take that $40 million and put it into our schools. Take it and get rid of the lead in our schools, in their water. Use that money there.", "If you want to raise money and do those ads, I have no problem. Do whatever the hell you want. But at the end of the day, it’s wrong and shouldn’t happen in the province of Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Thank you to the member from Niagara Falls. I love your tourist idea about making and birthing babies in Niagara Falls. You might have a bright future ahead of you." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "My making-babies days are over." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "I know you probably didn’t get to a lot of the things that you wanted to talk about. Perhaps it might be the $200, or how people in your riding probably spend $16,000 a year on groceries, and this government’s going to give them $200, which is about $15 a month.", "In my riding, they see this as a cynical ploy. They know what this government is doing. They’re trying to buy a vote with people’s own money. Do you think people in your riding see through this ploy or gimmick—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "Since the fall economic statement, I haven’t been back in my riding; I haven’t been back to Niagara Falls.", "But I will answer that. I believe that there people out there who need assistance. They need help, but there are bigger issues to be done in the province of Ontario. I gave you a number of examples of that, whether that be in health care, whether that be in housing, whether that be in our food banks. Let’s take the money that we’re spending there and put it into things that people need right away.", "1550", "The other problem with taking that—and I think it’s $3.2 billion; it’s a fair amount of money—I think it would make more sense, because it’s only going to be a one-time deal, right? It’s going to be a one-time deal before an election. We need to make sure that people can afford housing, make sure they can feed their families, make sure they put gas in their car. All those things should be done, so on that $200, there are people out there that are going to be very pleased that they’re getting any kind of help because they’re desperate. They’re desperate and going to food banks.", "We have people today—I’ve got 20 seconds left—that are working full-time jobs and when they get their paycheque on Friday, they’re going to the local food bank. That shouldn’t happen in the richest province in the country." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "Thank you to the member opposite for his speech. I would like to recognize the first thing that he said in his speech because I also was extremely pleased with the $13 million for ALS patients. Thank you for recognizing that. They have been advocating and I think it’s very important that we recognize that. So thank you to the member.", "I also would like to turn to another issue that I think we can all find agreement in and support on, and that has to do with the issue of fertility treatment. I have to say, when I was there with the Minister of Health and the Minister of Finance at that announcement, it truly was an embracing moment for us all because there are a lot of people who struggle in conceiving a child.", "I’d like to quote Zane, who sits on the board of the organization Conceivable Dreams. They were a fertility patient, and they extended their heartfelt thanks to the Ontario government.", "I think it says it all, so I’d like to ask the member opposite: Will you join us in supporting an initiative that will help families—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "I’ll be honest with you, and I’m going to take it right back to you: I’m a firm believer—and I love Steve; he’s done a great job. ALS has done a great job. But I’m going to take it right back to you. Tomorrow, it’s Movember month. I started my moustache this morning; I think it’s coming in pretty good. But your government has not supported having PSA testing done by OHIP.", "You know what? Today, as we’re standing here—kids are going to go out for Halloween—13 men are going to die today. I know on your side of the House, because I’ve talked to some of them, some of the dads on that side of the House, just like some of the dads in my office, have got prostates and some have died from prostate cancer. There is no reason why we’re allowing 5,000 men to die every year when we know that if it’s detected early and they get the testing done, we can save lives. We save money to the health care system, we save the health care system, and then we make sure that the dad or grandfather—anybody who has a prostate should not be dying prematurely because you won’t cover the PSA and because they can’t afford to get the test done. If it’s recommended by a doctor, we should get it done. So I’d appreciate if you support me—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "Their source I have from the Ministry of Health, dated August 28, 2024—in London, the population is 447,643; the physician count is 268 to that population. Rostered patients are 345,656. The percentage of patients rostered to a physician aged 60 and over is 21,000. The number of unattached patients—the population rostered patient count—is 128,978. The number of doctors, based on the 1,200 average—we need 107 doctors.", "Now, to go back to urgent care you mentioned, St Joseph’s urgent care is one of the most excellent facilities I have ever been to in London. But on their website, they say that if there’s a chance that they overbook patients, they have to cut off at a certain place.", "You talked about urgent care; how important are urgent cares in the whole picture of making sure people without doctors get access to medical attention?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "I’m glad you raised that because today there are 2.5 million people that don’t have a doctor, so urgent cares are so important. I said it in my speech and I’ll say it again: When I went to the doctors to say, when they were here—they were here about two weeks ago; I think they even visited some of the Conservatives. I said to them, “How important are urgent care centres?” They said that they’re very important because it makes sure that our emergency rooms aren’t being filled up and wait times aren’t through the roof. We know that we have hallway medicine. We know all that.", "Urgent cares in your area, in Port Colborne, Fort Erie and up north, are very, very important. The government should make sure that we’re investing in our urgent care centres to help alleviate the problem in our emergency rooms, where we know there’s hallway medicine. It’s terrible, quite frankly, in some of our hospitals across the province, particularly on wait times when you get to an emergency room; it’s 12, 14, 16 hours." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Deepak Anand", "text": [ "My question is to the member of the honeymoon capital of Canada. There’s some similarities between your riding and my riding. My riding has 61% of the immigrants—the population not born in Canada—77% racial community and many, many vulnerable people. Similarly, you have a similar population base, wherein there are people who work in hospitality, as an example.", "So if a resident comes to you and asks a very simple question: “I’m going to get $200 at a time when I need it most to pay out my Christmas bill, and a family of four or five are getting $800 to $1,000. Are you going to support this good initiative from this government and make sure that I do not have a crisis at the time of making that bill payment?” What is your answer?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "I think I already answered this question about six times during my speech. I told you that there are people that need it. And you’re right about Niagara Falls: We have lots of people from all over the world, and they’re working in the tourist sector. They’re working in hospitality. They’re working in our hospitals.", "I was at Diwali on Saturday night. You asked the question; I’m looking at you so I can answer it, instead of laughing at me. I’m going to tell you, Diwali really—I said at Diwali, “You know what? We should be embracing immigration.” I said this because I looked out and there were doctors that were there, there were nurses that were there, there were PSWs that were there. There were people that worked in the hospitality sector. There were firefighters there. That’s what makes Canada the greatest country in the world.", "Today, what I’m going to say to you and to your government: What we have to do is make sure that our priorities are what’s important and that we’re not spending it on a spa. I disagree with the spa. I think we can spend it a lot better than that. We’d like to say that I certainly support having Niagara Falls, like your community—it’s wonderful to go to all the different cultures that we have in Niagara Falls. It’s growing—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Thank you to the member.", "We have a little time for a quick question and quick response." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "Very clearly, every time the member speaks, he talks about being from poverty and getting a unionized job and making a good living. He mentioned seniors being renovicted. He would know the number of widow pensions from unionized jobs. What does it mean when you’re on a widower’s pension and your rent jumps from $700 to $1,800 or more?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Wayne Gates", "text": [ "That’s a very good question. A lot of people don’t realize that if you’re in a union workshop and you have a pension or your spouse has a pension, the minute that your spouse dies, whether it’s male or female, that pension goes to about 60%. It’s not staying, so if you’re getting $2,000, you lose 60% of that $2,000 the minute he passes away. Now, you may have some life insurance with the workplace.", "Can you imagine losing 60% of what your partner was bringing in on a pension and then ending up having your rent going up 60%? Where’s that money going to come from? What’s going to happen is that that person is either going to have to rely on family or they’re going to end up homeless.", "It’s a very good question. It’s one that a lot of people don’t know, don’t understand, but you lose 40% of your—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Thank you to the member from Niagara.", "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "I have the great privilege to rise today to speak to the fall economic statement, Building Ontario For You. The release of this statement is so timely as it is a testament of our government’s commitment to the people of Ontario that we can set the stage for job creation; specifically, better jobs with bigger paycheques. We can build the highways, transit and infrastructure, all the while keeping costs down and delivering better services to each and every Ontarian. What is even better: We are doing this, all the while continuing to do what is necessary to maintain a path to balancing the budget.", "1600", "Firstly, I would like to thank the Minister of Finance, his parliamentary assistants and all his staff for the great work that they have done over the past several months to prepare such a meaningful 2024 Ontario Economic Outlook and Fiscal Review. I know this work does not happen overnight, and it does not happen over a few months either. In fact, I know that this work takes months and years of consultation, careful consideration, extensive planning, including the running of many fiscal scenarios to ensure that maintaining a path to balancing the budget is respected. Thank you to the Minister of Finance for his due diligence and for listening to the people of Ontario. Merci, Ministre Bethlenfalvy, pour votre diligence raisonnable et pour avoir écouté la population de l’Ontario.", "Speaker, there are many great elements to this Building Ontario For You Act, as it is a plan that focuses on the fundamentals that matter most to Ontario families. I will focus on three key elements that I believe provide:", "—firstly, the greatest impact on people of businesses;", "—secondly, the greatest meaningful impact on the next generation, on growing the province by making it attainable to have a family here in Ontario; and", "—thirdly, the greatest implication on investment where it counts most, as it shows that we are a government that is listening and taking to heart and to the bottom line what it takes to invest in our future, and that is a healthy future.", "Madame la Présidente, le plan Bâtir l’Ontario Pour Vous comporte de nombreux éléments intéressants, car il s’agit d’un plan qui met l’accent sur les éléments fondamentaux qui comptent le plus pour les familles ontariennes. Je me concentrai sur trois éléments, ceux qui, à mon avis, apportent :", "—premièrement, le plus grand impact sur les personnes et les entreprises;", "—deuxièmement, un impact significatif sur la prochaine génération, sur la croissance de la province, en rendant possible le fait d’avoir une famille ici en Ontario; et", "—troisièmement, la plus grande implication sur l’investissement, là où cela compte le plus, car cela montre que nous sommes un gouvernement qui écoute et prend à cœur, et aux résultats financiers, ce qu’il faut pour investir dans notre avenir, un avenir sain.", "Firstly, to continue keeping costs down for Ontario families and businesses, the legislation, through the 2024 fall economic statement, would extent the temporary gasoline and fuel tax cuts until June 30, 2025. Speaker, this would save Ontario households $380, on average, since the cuts were first introduced in July 2022. This proposed extension to the gasoline and fuel tax rate cuts bills on a host of measures to make life more affordable for people across the province.", "We know that many Ontario families are struggling as a result of the federal carbon tax and high interest rates. This is why our government will always work to help taxpayers keep more money of their own. This includes small businesses and entrepreneurs, for example, groups like the Council of Canadian Innovators. They advised our Associate Minister of Small Business that tax hikes “stifle growth” and they “demotivate Canadians from getting into business in the first place.” This is why under the leadership of Premier Ford, our government will continue standing shoulder to shoulder with Ontario’s small businesses and Ontario families and continue to cut the gas and fuel tax. We want to offer relief where we can, including at the pumps.", "Nous savons que de nombreuses familles ontariennes sont aux prises avec la taxe fédérale sur le carbone et les taux d’intérêt élevés. C’est pourquoi notre gouvernement s’efforcera toujours d’aider les contribuables à conserver une plus grande part de leur propre argent, et cela inclut les petites entreprises et les entrepreneurs.", "Par exemple, des groupes comme le conseil canadien des innovateurs ont informé notre ministre associée de la petite entreprise que les hausses d’impôts « étouffent la croissance » et aussi « découragent les Canadiens de se lancer en affaires ». C’est pourquoi, sous la direction du premier ministre Ford, notre gouvernement continuera de se tenir aux côtés des petites entreprises et des familles ontariennes et de réduire les taxes sur l’essence et les carburants. Nous voulons apporter du soulagement partout où nous le pouvons, y compris à la pompe.", "Speaker, last week, I had the honour of standing alongside the Minister of Health, the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Long-Term Care as well as the member from Etobicoke–Lakeshore at the ReproMed Fertility clinic. This was one of the truly memorable moments as a member of provincial Parliament. I stood proud as Minister Jones and Minister Bethlenfalvy announced that our government is investing $150 million over two years to expand the Ontario Fertility Program to cut wait-lists and triple the number of families connecting to government-funded fertility services in hospital and community settings. This includes giving patients more options where they can access publicly funded fertility services by expanding the program to more clinics.", "In addition, we have proposed to introduce a new tax credit that would come into effect January 2025 to further reduce the financial burden faced by people seeking fertility treatment. This tax credit would cover 25% of eligible expenses, up to $5,000 each year, and this will help families with costs, including IVF cycles, fertility medications, travel for treatment and diagnostic testing.", "Madame la Présidente, grâce à ces nouveaux investissements, nous réduisons les obstacles financiers et aidons davantage de personnes et de familles partout dans la province à réaliser leur rêve de devenir parents.", "OK, j’aimerais maintenant vous expliquer pourquoi j’ai été si honorée d’être aux côtés de mes collègues lors de cette annonce. Depuis que je suis devenue députée provinciale, j’ai entendu des électeurs, ainsi que des membres d’une organisation appelée Conceivable Dreams, une organisation qui s’est imposée comme la voix de l’Ontario en faveur des soins de fertilité accessibles. J’ai tellement appris de ces personnes que j’ai aussi pu m’identifier à un niveau très personnel.", "For some people, it is challenging to conceive a child. I think it is important that we build awareness to reduce the stigma associated with infertility. My husband and I were very blessed to have our son. We tried for more; unfortunately, we were not successful.", "The Ontario Fertility Program launched in December 2015. This was well after I gave up on the idea of having a little brother or a little sister for my boy. This is why I can relate to these families and why I started advocating alongside my colleagues for policies that would help couples realize the dream of becoming a parent and growing their family.", "Since the launch of the OFP, funding has been provided to over 107,000 families in Ontario to help them build their families. However, each patient was only eligible for one publicly funded IVF cycle in their lifetime and an additional cycle if they have acted or were acting as a surrogate. By expanding the Ontario Fertility Program, our government is saying, “We are here for you. We want to support you.” Because we are growing as a province, and this includes ensuring that we can help make it attainable and make it accessible for families to grow.", "1610", "Nous avons beaucoup de citations de la communauté. J’en noterai deux—tout d’abord de la part de la DreKim Liu, qui est la directrice médicale de Mount Sinai Fertility : « L’annonce d’aujourd’hui est un grand pas vers l’amélioration de l’accès et la réduction des obstacles financiers pour les personnes aux prises avec un trouble de l’infertilité. Merci d’accorder la priorité aux patientes et de les aider à franchir cette nouvelle étape en vue de concevoir une famille. »", "Et puis, de la part de Zane Colt, le président du conseil d’administration de Conceivable Dreams : « Étant moi-même un patient atteint de troubles de l’infertilité, je tiens à remercier sincèrement le gouvernement de l’Ontario d’avoir amélioré l’accès aux traitements et d’avoir rendu la vie plus abordable pour les familles comme la mienne. Ce gouvernement est à notre écoute et nous donne du soutien, ainsi qu’une lueur d’espoir pendant que nous travaillons à fonder une famille. »", "Speaker, I have now spoken about the positive impact this fall economic statement will have on people and businesses today by giving a reduction in tax so people and businesses can keep their hard-earned income. I’ve also spoken about how it will benefit the next generation by helping to grow Ontario families—a true, human impact.", "Now, Speaker, I want to talk about our health; specifically, family medicine. That is the foundation of preventative medicine. I’d like to call it preventative care.", "To help close the remaining 10% gap of people who do not have access to a regular health care provider, our government is breaking down barriers for Ontario students to become family doctors by expanding the Learn and Stay grant to include family medicine. In addition, we are requiring medical schools to prioritize for Ontario residents, helping ensure more doctors who study in Ontario will treat Ontario patients rather than leaving the province after their studies.", "Pour aider à combler le dernier écart de 10 % des personnes qui n’ont pas accès à un fournisseur de santé régulier, le gouvernement de l’Ontario élimine les obstacles pour aider les étudiantes et étudiants à devenir médecins en étendant la subvention ontarienne Apprendre et rester à celles et ceux qui étudient la médecine familiale. La province exige également que les facultés de médecine réservent des places en priorité aux résidents de l’Ontario afin de s’assurer que davantage de médecins formés en Ontario soignent des patients ontariens plutôt que de quitter la province après leurs études.", "À partir de 2026, le gouvernement investira un montant estimé à 88 millions de dollars sur trois ans pour élargir la subvention ontarienne Apprendre et rester. Cela comprend 35,36 millions de dollars pour soutenir 1 360 étudiants admissibles au cours des années universitaires 2026-2027 qui s’engagent à pratiquer la médecine familiale avec une liste complète de patients après l’obtention de leur diplôme. On estime que cela permettra de connecter 1,36 million de personnes supplémentaires aux soins primaires, en se basant sur le taux d’attachement moyen des médecins de famille.", "Le financement couvrira tous les frais de scolarité ainsi que les autres coûts directs liés à leur éducation, comme les livres, le matériel et l’équipement, en échange d’une obligation de service à titre de médecins dans n’importe quelle collectivité en Ontario.", "Since the Ontario Learn and Stay Grant Program was first introduced in 2023, it has helped nearly 7,500 students begin training in priority nursing, paramedicine and medical lab technology programs.", "Starting in Fall 2026, new legislative and regulatory changes will, if passed, also require all Ontario medical schools to allocate at least 95% of all undergraduate medical school seats to residents of Ontario, with the other 5% reserved for students from the rest of Canada. We’re also creating more opportunities for Ontarians who started their medical education abroad to be able to complete their postgraduate training in Ontario. These actions are designed to ensure Ontario medical schools are training and graduating doctors, including family doctors, who are significantly more likely to practice in Ontario.", "L’Ontario a ouvert deux nouvelles facultés de médecine, une à l’Université métropolitaine de Toronto et l’autre à l’Université York, et a augmenté le nombre de places dans les programmes d’études médicales, ajoutant immédiatement plus de 260 places au niveau du premier cycle et 449 places de résidence, pour atteindre à terme plus de 500 places supplémentaires au premier cycle et 742 postes de résidence, ce qui constitue la plus importante expansion de l’enseignement médical depuis plus d’une décennie.", "I’m noticing my time is getting short so I’m going to go straight to one of the quotes provided from one of our Ontarian experts on this subject. This is from Dr. Jane Philpott, dean of health sciences at Queen’s University: “The addition of family medicine to the province’s Learn and Stay grant program is good news for both Ontario’s learners and the health care needs of our families and communities. It provides another valuable incentive for students to choose a career path in primary care and it lays the groundwork for more access to family doctors in underserved and growing communities.”", "Our government has been listening to Ontarians. I have been listening to my constituents in Newmarket–Aurora, and I want to say to the great residents of my riding: We are investing not only in critical infrastructure, but we’re also investing in you. We are investing in a stronger economy. We are investing in our future generations. We are investing in your health and your well-being for years to come.", "Nous investissons non seulement dans nos infrastructures essentielles, mais aussi en vous. Nous investissons dans une économie plus forte. Nous investissons dans nos générations futures. Nous investissons dans votre santé et votre bien-être pour les années à venir.", "Alors, merci beaucoup, madame la Présidente. Merci à tous." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "It is time for questions." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "Merci au membre de Newmarket–Aurora. C’était un beau discours bilingue. Un grand pourcentage de ce discours était en anglais ainsi qu’en français.", "Pour moi, c’est très difficile quand je lis les nouvelles et je lis que les citoyens, les travailleurs d’Ontario—que plusieurs travailleurs chaque année cherchent leur nourriture à la banque alimentaire. Pourquoi est-ce que chaque année il y a plusieurs travailleurs qui n’ont pas de « money » pour acheter de la nourriture pour leurs familles?", "1620" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "Alors, si j’ai bien compris mon collègue, pourquoi les familles ne gagnent pas plus d’argent?", "Alors, je veux dire tout d’abord, comme j’ai bien remarqué au début de mon discours, qu’on a fait une réduction sur le tarif pour les carburants. Et pour moi, je crois que ça, c’est très important, et la raison pourquoi : ce n’est pas juste les résidents, mais c’est aussi les entrepreneurs, c’est les entreprises qui peuvent économiser un peu. Parce qu’on sait bien que maintenant, avec le taux Libéral, le taux de carbone, ça coûte très cher pour tout le monde, pas juste les résidents. C’est pour les entreprises aussi.", "Donc, pour moi, quand je regarde, est-ce qu’on peut faire quelque chose? On a déjà fait quelque chose et on va continuer ça." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "M. Tyler Allsopp", "text": [ "Merci beaucoup, monsieur le Président. J’aimerais également remercier ma collègue la députée de Newmarket d’avoir fait sa déclaration en français aussi.", "As a father and a husband of—father of three and husband, not a husband of three—many in my riding ask me about fertility supports as an issue I often hear across the Bay of Quinte—hard to switch back and forth quickly. I am sure many others in this room can say the same. It’s an issue that affects not just the individuals in question but also many of their closest loved ones.", "Speaker, through you, could the member please expand on what our government is doing to help bring more people the chance at parenthood?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "Thank you to the new member and my new colleague. Thank you very much for that important question.", "First off, it’s a good one, because people have been paying a lot of money to go beyond the first cycle of their IVF treatment. Again, as I had noted in my remarks, the Ontario Fertility Program only started in 2015. I think it was great that that program started. But an IVF cycle—typically, most couples don’t succeed in that first one. It could take a second. It could take a third. People that I heard from in my community and people I heard from right here at Queen’s Park were spending $40,000-plus and $50,000-plus and trying unsuccessfully to conceive.", "This is why our government is moving forward with this $150 million, because it is going to make a big difference in the lives of many Ontarians so they can realize the dream of being a parent." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Further question? I see the member from Toronto–Danforth." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "Thank you, Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity.", "To the member: Housing production in this province under your government has been dropping. There’s no question that you are far from being close to meeting the goals that you’ve said that you will meet to help deal with our housing crisis. I don’t see in this fall economic statement a plan to put in place an agency like Canada mortgage and housing that will actually get housing built.", "When will you make housing a priority?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "Thank you to the member opposite for the question. In fact, Ontario has taken some meaningful actions to support and strengthen our local communities with record investments in municipalities. For example, in 2023 alone, the government provided almost $10 billion through key programs. These investments included $654 million annually through the Homelessness Prevention Program. I know that’s benefiting my community as well. I remember the day when I made the announcement at the municipality of York region. It’s also increasing land ambulance funding—also, the gas tax program.", "As well, the enabling water systems fund—just in my area of Newmarket–Aurora and East Gwillimbury, with this funding, we’ll be able to add 8,000 more homes once a pipe is finished. But it takes that funding of that critical infrastructure." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Further question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mrs. Daisy Wai", "text": [ "Thank you to my colleague from Newmarket–Aurora. I am so touched by your presentation because it covers, summarizes and highlights all the key things that this fall economic statement has presented. What touched me the most—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Can I ask the member from Richmond Hill—you’re not sitting at your own seat. Thank you." ] }, { "speaker": "Mrs. Daisy Wai", "text": [ "I’m sorry. Yes.", "What I would like—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Thank you. Have a seat now.", "Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "I’m going to answer. I think she was going to probably ask me about the Learn and Stay grant for our medical students, which I think is amazing because, as noted, since 2023, 7,500 students in nursing, in medical technology as well as in—did I say nursing already?—7,500 have benefited from this. Now we are turning our efforts to medical students, because we know we need more family doctors and we’re going to get them to stay right here in Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Tom Rakocevic", "text": [ "Congratulations again to the member opposite. She always has very well-researched debates, and she knows her material very well.", "I wanted to talk about building homes in Ontario. We’re about 60% of the way to the target of 1.5 million homes, but the government is lagging so, so far behind. So my question is, have you guys figured out who’s sleeping on the keyboard and figured out how to wake them up? Because you’ve got a long way to go to get to that target." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "Well, as I was saying in the last one—I wasn’t really able to finish it. But through the Housing-Enabling Water Systems Fund, which I thought was a phenomenal one because it’s helping my area—because one of our challenges is that we need more critical infrastructure in Newmarket–Aurora and East Gwillimbury even to start building more homes that we do need. Specifically, in York region, I recently announced $139 million that’s going towards that, and that’s going to make a difference because it’s going to add 8,000 more homes to the area where I live.", "I’d also like to say about what we’re increasing for the Ontario Municipal Partnership Fund, which is also known as the OMPF. By this, we’re going to be adding $100 million over the next two years, and this is going to bring our total funding through this program to $600 million by 2026. This is going to help municipalities, especially in the small and rural areas." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "Thank you to the member from Newmarket–Aurora for her remarks.", "In my riding of Don Valley West, we have a population of about 100,000 people—30,000 of them don’t have a family doctor. I get emails, I get calls on a regular basis, asking: Do I know of a family doctor who is accepting patients? Do I have any suggestions for them?", "In the member’s riding of Newmarket–Aurora, there are 10,000 residents who don’t have a family doctor. I’m wondering what the member says to her residents who are seeking a family doctor and need that today, not when the next plan or report comes out in a year or two." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "Thank you to the member opposite for the question. When constituents call my office and they’re looking for help finding a family doctor, guess what? I’ve helped every single one of them to get a family doctor.", "I’d say as well that what we’re preparing for is the future. Unfortunately—I’ve got to say this—under the Liberal reign of 15 years, where were programs like this, anticipating? We don’t make doctors overnight. We need—what? They need eight years, nine years, 10 years—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Thank you so much. That’s the time allocated for the debate.", "I see a point of order. The member from Spadina–Fort York." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Chris Glover", "text": [ "Point of order: During the debate this afternoon, the member from Don Valley West said that when the former Liberal government gave out taxpayer bribes—actually, I’ll change that—taxpayer-funded cheques, the Liberal government had a balanced budget." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "My sincere apologies. This is not a valid point of order. Please have a seat.", "Further debate?", "1630", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Thank you so much. After having a conversation, a discussion with the Clerk, I would say there were unparliamentary words used in the statement, so can you please withdraw?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Chris Glover", "text": [ "I’ll withdraw that word." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. Deepak Anand)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "At this time: Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "It’s always a pleasure and an honour to rise in this House to speak on behalf of the fine people of Toronto Centre. Today, we’re debating the fall economic statement of 2024.", "I want to start with a saying, one that we’ve all used in this House and one that I certainly have heard throughout my public life in every single chamber of government, and that is: “Show me your budget and I’ll show you your values.” This is a statement that rings true ever so more today in Ontario, especially as people are struggling with the high cost of living, the high cost of housing and rent, with the high cost of fuel, and their dollars, their paycheques, are ever-shrinking with the rate of inflation.", "Ontarians are not getting what they pay for in this fall economic statement, and that continues to be true: disappointing spending decisions that will deliver fewer services to Ontarians. People in Ontario deserve a government that puts their tax dollars to work by spending them responsibly to make life easier and more affordable.", "Ontario became a have-not province in 2023. In 2024, Justin Trudeau’s government is sending this province, a have-not province now, a cheque of $576 million. This is a shameful record by all accounts—the powerful economic engine of this country. The Premier likes to stand up to boast about how things are better today than they were almost seven years ago when they took over from the Liberals, but the record is there. The math does not lie.", "This budget is also showing us that we have a $6.6-billion deficit. Further into the details of this mini budget, we recognize that the government has $41.8 billion in long-term borrowing on their books. This is $14 billion higher than it was in 2023, and the cost to carry the debt service alone in this year and into the next is $13.9 billion—just let that settle—in interest payments. So $13.9 billion is how much the government is paying to borrow the money, which they are now giving away—and I will get to that further.", "Ontario receiving equalization payments is nothing to boast about. These financial transfers from the federal government are simply letting us know that we have lower capacity with respect to economic output. These payments are not expected to go away but expected to rise again in the following year.", "Ontarians deserve a government that will actually get to the basics and do them well. The basics that any Ontarian expects from their provincial government is the high-quality delivery of public housing, health care, education, long-term care and other types of services.", "On this side of the bench, New Democrats understand that responsibility well. We have put forward solutions to hire more doctors and take the cost of administration off their books so that they can do more of the patient-first medicine delivery. We have put forward solutions to fix the schools that are now sitting with a $16-billion capital backlog, and instead of addressing that horrible, horrible state of condition, the government is choosing to let it crumble.", "Life in Ontario has become far more expensive than it ever has been. It is the scar of this government, and that will be a significant legacy. The budget is out of touch with everyday people who are looking for real solutions to the public service crisis that we see.", "Because I’m the official opposition critic on justice and the Attorney General, I want to start my comments about what we’re seeing in the justice file. It is hard for everyone to understand, especially for those who claim to support access to justice, for a government to constantly boast about being tough on crime—to see them act so irresponsibly once more by not addressing the long and extraordinary record-high, Canada-number-one, first-in-place backlogs in the courts and the tribunal and administrative agency sectors. We are seeing a half-a-billion-dollar cut in the Ministry of the Attorney General and justice. We are seeing this government implement a 9% cut in the justice file. It is reprehensible and difficult to understand how this government has chosen to ignore victims and survivors who have come before this House and a committee to talk about the heartbreaking wait time that they have experienced, only to see their cases thrown out.", "How is it possible that our courts are already shockingly underfunded, and you are now choosing to make that cut even deeper? Every single day, we are seeing the chaos in the courts, and cases are being thrown out. You have heard from the legal stakeholders. You have heard from victims and survivors. You have heard from the justices themselves. And you have chosen to ignore all their advice.", "Government members are familiar with the Jordan decision, which states that cases must be tried within 18 months of charges being laid, and if that timeline expires, somebody walks. That is regardless of whether or not they are innocent or guilty; they all walk. So while the government beats their chest and writes letters, points their finger to the Ottawa government and says, “Fix bail reform,” when you have a responsibility right here which you choose to neglect day in and day out, dangerous people who are repeat offenders are being released into our communities with zero consequence.", "When this government talks about public safety and you cut a half-a-billion dollars from the justice file—there is no public safety when you can’t get to trial.", "Cait Alexander’s story, you know all too well, was heartbreaking—Emily Ager and dozens more.", "You are failing Ontarians when it comes to public and community safety. The record is there for all of us to see. Regardless of the press statements or how many pictures you choose to take with police officers, communities do not feel safer when you don’t invest in the justice system.", "We are hearing from the crown attorneys’ association, who rang the bell on intimate partner violence during the hearings. Courtrooms are triple-booked. Survivors are emotionally preparing themselves for a trial which then never happens. And what is worse is, when a trial begins, the testimony has started, witnesses have been called to provide their statement, and then the trial is cancelled because the clock has run.", "How dare you cut half-a-billion dollars from the justice file? How dare you continue to defund the justice system? It is absolutely shameful. There are so many people who are watching what happens in our courts. There is no safety when you cannot get to trial. If a case closes and the judge is not able to hear the case, those who have been charged with the crime walk. It is also a colossal waste of time and money that is spent. This is not fiscally responsible, nor is it fiscally sustainable. We cannot have a justice system that runs on an ad hoc “when we feel like it, when we’re going to deliver” policies by press statements. You’re setting every single person up for failure, including the crown and justice—and it’s not fair that they wear it, because it’s not their fault. The police have done their work—they’ve done their investigations, they’ve laid their charges, they’re prepared to go, and, again, the trial doesn’t take place.", "When will you understand that by defunding the courts, you are making things worse? What would it take? How many more victims and survivors have to fill this chamber for you to understand that you are not helping the situation? You’ve made it worse in your almost seven years in government. There is absolutely no rationale whatsoever to see the half-a-billion-dollar defunding of the justice system; there’s no rationale for that 9% cut. The detention centres, incarceration—jails are full. As you talk about locking people up, there are three to a cell. Where are you going to put them?", "1640", "I’m going to move on, Speaker, to talk about health care and the challenges that we are seeing in health care.", "Although the government is showing an additional $1 billion of health care spending, it’s actually to reimburse the health care workers for the wages that were stolen through Bill 124. We are not going to see an expansion of services. We’re not going to see a reduction in wait times for surgeries. We’re not going to see more family physicians for the 2.5 million Ontarians who are waiting—soon to be four million Ontarians who will be waiting in the next few years. We’re not going to see more nurses either.", "The crisis in the health care system is so significant. We know that this government came to power promising to end hallway medicine, but instead, what they’re doing is closing emergency rooms—emergency rooms. Women who need to deliver their babies have to drive eight hours in northern and remote communities. This is not the Ontario that you are describing in your partisan publicly funded advertising on Facebook and other social media platforms. That is the Ontario, the true Ontario, that you have created, and it’s absolutely shameful.", "I think we need to invest in health care. We need to invest in mental health care. We need to build up and stitch together the social safety net that has been ripped and absolutely torn apart into pieces. People are falling through the cracks in Ontario, and it’s getting significantly worse. Ontarians deserve an apology from this government for failing them so miserably.", "The wait-lists are simply too long. We are seeing more and more people being diagnosed a lot later with serious illness and cancer.", "This is an issue that affects every single family. There isn’t a single family in Ontario who’s not struggling with the health care system.", "If you’re lucky enough to have a family doctor, you’d better pray that this person is young enough to grow with you and your family, because I know that the statistics are also going to show us, as the OMA has told us, that there are going to be a number of doctors retiring, and they are not going to be replaced in equal, proportionate numbers.", "Speaker, it’s time to talk about housing. This is an issue that affects every single community. Ontarians deserve a home that is safe; that is in the communities that they want to live in; that is connected to proper, well-maintained roads and highways; that is connected, in urban centres, to public transportation that will allow them to get from A to B in a timely fashion. This is one of the most important issues of our time, and we have a responsibility to get it right.", "The challenge is that the housing starts under this government have been increasingly coming down—the numbers are going in the opposite direction. The annual goal of hitting 125,000 housing starts is not being met; it has never been met. And this year, the housing starts have fallen, once again, to 81,300. Every single land economist, every single developer, every single urban land institute—or akin to—every single newspaper editorial is saying that the government is not going to meet its goal of 1.5 million homes in 2031.", "I’m incredibly sad to point out this record, because families are struggling with being either underhoused—two generations living together in small apartments and small homes, young people delaying the start of their adult life and independent living because they can’t get out, and seniors who are facing higher and higher costs of living and feeling that the belt is just tightening around their waists, but also around their necks.", "We are seeing more people choosing MAID because they just don’t have hope. Just this weekend, I know there was constituent in my own community who invited everyone to a party, but it wasn’t really a party; she wanted to say goodbye to community members and family because she has chosen MAID. It was not because she’s terminally ill or in chronic pain; it’s because she cannot subsist on the $1,308 from ODSP.", "We know that rents in Toronto and right across Ontario are high, but the rents here in this city, the most expensive city in Canada—a one-bedroom apartment will almost set you back close to $3,000. There’s really nothing left.", "The solutions are there. You’ve chosen to ignore your own Housing Affordability Task Force. The opposition Ontario NDP has put forward numerous, numerous proposals on how to accelerate the provision and the building of housing, whether it’s building more fourplexes on the main lines, building up our transit-oriented communities, ensuring that the incentives are there to work with our public and private partners so that everyone can get shovels into the ground. We have put all of that forward and more.", "And we’re the only party that’s committed to fully getting back into the public housing game, because governments have a responsibility to build affordable housing, whether it’s supportive housing with the wrap-around supports that should be health care-based and funded by the provincial government, which this government is not doing; or if it’s working with Options for Homes by releasing and making available public lands for public good; or building co-operative housing by ensuring that the financing and mortgage structures are there.", "All of that requires every order of government to come together. What we hear from the federal government and the municipal governments is that the province of Ontario is constantly missing, or, when they do arrive, it’s late, and when they do arrive, they’re a dollar short.", "We have 1,400 encampments in Ontario, and that is a very conservative number. They’re in every single community—homeless individuals who don’t have a place to go, who are sleeping rough, and winter is coming. This is not a joke; it is coming.", "The unofficial numbers, according to the government’s own document on homelessness in Ontario, is over 234,000. Let me just repeat that: That’s more than a quarter of a million people in Ontario who are unhoused. The crisis before our doorstep is real, with the Premier saying that, if only municipalities just asked for help, he would respond.", "The shameful thing about this is that the Premier is choosing to tell certain truths. The truth is that Ontario’s big mayor caucus has put forward not just one letter but multiple letters asking—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "I just want to interrupt the member. Let’s frame that “certain truths”—it’s pretty much intended to the word you’re not supposed to say, so let’s clean that up." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "Thank you, Speaker.", "We want every politician in this House to be truthful, to look at the statistics and then to rise to respond to them.", "We have a homelessness crisis that is absolutely unaddressed in this mini budget. We have a Premier who is saying to municipalities—he is actually gaslighting them—by saying, “Ask me for help, and I will help you. Write me a letter.”", "Well, I’ll tell you what. The Ontario big-mayor caucus wrote the Premier a letter in 2022, before the last provincial election and the Premier chose to ignore it—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Sorry. I don’t want to interrupt the member again, but we know what “gaslighting” means." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "Withdraw.", "There’s so much about this budget that I think Ontarians need to see more from, and at this time—what I consider the power of the moment and the opportunity that’s before us when a government of the great province of Ontario tables a budget—it should meet the moment. Regrettably, by all accounts from every single major newspaper, every single economist, this government has failed to meet that moment.", "1650" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "This province is on its way, in the right direction, towards a balanced budget.", "I want to share with the House a quote from George Smitherman, a former Liberal Minister of Health. Mr. Smitherman said that the previous Liberal government had indeed balanced a budget, but this is how they got there: “To get to that balanced budget” the Ontario Liberals “really starved health care for five years, and ... that’s not spoken of enough....” That’s what the Liberal health minister said about his own government. So my question to the honourable member across the way is, is it about time that we start speaking about that more?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "I couldn’t agree with you more, sir; I do believe that we should be raising attention to the horrible, horrible record of the Liberal government. They created hallway medicine. They deepened the crisis in Ontario. They drove away nurses. They did not plan for the future with the adequate number of doctors.", "But now, things are significantly worse, because you have followed the exact page from Mr. George Smitherman, and you’re doing exactly the same thing." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Chris Glover", "text": [ "I want to thank the member from Toronto Centre for her comments today. There were so many good points that were made, but the one that stuck with me is—she was talking about MAID.", "On Friday night, I had a conversation with a friend who has a disability and who applied for MAID because they were in chronic pain and they were also about to be evicted from their home, and they just said, “I can’t be homeless again.” Fortunately, there was an intervention, and that person was saved.", "On Saturday night, I attended a celebration of life for somebody who has actually applied for MAID this coming week—and it’s somebody you know and who you just mentioned. You’re saying that they also cannot survive on the ODSP that this government gives, which—the housing allowance is $582 a month.", "Can you tell the government that their ODSP policies are actually leading people to take MAID—and how unconscionable those are?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "I believe that there is a combination of 27,000 people in Ontario on some type of government assistance—some receiving $730 a month on OW and $1,308 a month on ODSP.", "I also know that there are over 100,000 multi-millionaires in Toronto who do not need a $200 rebate.", "If you really want to see this budget work and to show compassion to those who need it the most, this rebate should be the litmus test, and I can’t imagine people more worthy and deserving of that $200 than those who are trying to survive on OW and ODSP." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "I want to thank the member from Toronto Centre for raising the issue that this budget fails people, but it has failed women more than any other group. The fact that we’ve come in this House, with victims and survivors, to say to this government, “You are failing us”—sexual assault perpetrators are walking free in this province because of the underfunding of our justice system.", "We have asked the government time and time again to declare gender-based violence and intimate partner violence an epidemic, as has been declared by almost every province, every municipality in Ontario, but this government steadfastly refuses to declare this an epidemic.", "Would you agree with me that this government seems blind to the conditions that women and sexual assault survivors are facing in this province." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "Yes, to the wonderful member from Hamilton. Thank you very much for your question.", "It is with a heavy heart that I see this government continue to fail on the issue of addressing gender-based violence and intimate partner violence. We know it’s an epidemic; it’s been declared by over 100 municipalities. We hear from AMO asking this government to do more to end gender-based violence. We’re hearing from the OPP—we heard from various police chiefs, “Please do more.” This government has chosen not to.", "On November 25, you’ll all be wearing scarves—Madam Speaker, we’re all coming in to wear some purple scarves. It would be good, on that day, for us to come together as a House, before you put on your purple scarves, to declare IPV an epidemic in this province of Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Natalie Pierre", "text": [ "Thank you, Speaker, and thank you to the member opposite for their comments and remarks this afternoon.", "I heard you mention affordability a couple of times during your speech, so I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the cuts that we’re extending on the gas tax and fuel to save Ontario families about $380 a year. That will help families, Ontarians and businesses in the province.", "Through you, Speaker, I ask the member opposite: Will they support our government as we make life more affordable for Ontario people and businesses here?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "Thank you very much to the wonderful member from Burlington. I deeply appreciate your question. The temporary reduction in the gas tax that is renewed constantly every six months is simply an opportunity for the government to get in front of the cameras once again to remind everybody that they’ve temporarily reduced the gas tax.", "If you really want to help Ontarians, I’d say you would go one step further: Why not eliminate the small business tax? Why not go further and reduce the tax burden on low-income families? Why not support the budget by taxing the very rich, like Galen Weston, tax the billionaires, tax the multi-millionaires? You can actually do something right now that will help everybody who is struggling in Ontario, and that is to bring back real rent control." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "Thank you to the member from Toronto Centre. She made a lot of great points. She started off by saying, “Show me your budget and I’ll show you your values.” We’ve heard many times from the Conservatives about how much money they’re saving for workers, but the thing that stands out to me all the time is that every year, more and more working people are accessing food banks on a regular basis.", "Why is there this disconnect thinking—from the Conservative government—that they’re helping working people if more and more working people are using food banks every single year since they’ve been elected?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "Thank you very much to the member from Sudbury. The reality is that this cheque is a symbolic gesture. It is not litmus- and needs based. It actually doesn’t make sense when you’re throwing out money across the province, including for those who sit in $3-million, $5-million, $10-million mansions. The fact that it’s such a blunt instrument, it doesn’t make sense.", "Food bank use is on the rise across Ontario, and you are not being surgical, you’re not being intentional and you’re not being purposeful in how to target the support to those who need it most. I’ll tell you that every single food bank operator in Ontario would love to see this government step up to actually support them as opposed to telling the farmers, when they’re here, to donate more to food banks." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Quick question and quick response." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Zee Hamid", "text": [ "My question is for the member opposite from Toronto Centre. Given where I sit, I hear countless times the members from opposition talking about the doctor shortage. Well, I also heard the member say, “Show me a budget and I’ll show you the values.”", "Our government is expanding the Learn and Stay grant to provide more doctors in more communities—right out of medical school—and were encouraging more Ontarians to stay and study right here at home.", "Interruption." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Downey", "text": [ "Got to move your phone, Zee." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Zee Hamid", "text": [ "Just a popular guy sometimes.", "Through you, Speaker, I ask the member: Are they going to stop saying no to every health care measure we propose, or are they going to vote for this fall economic statement and ensure more family doctors for families right here in Ontario, for families that need them?", "1700" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "A quick response." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "Thank you to the wonderful member. It is my intention to support the initiatives that actually support the people who need it the most.", "Speaker, we do have a health care crisis in Ontario, and after six—seven—years now of Conservative government policy decision-making and, I would say, failed health policies, things have gotten significantly worse. There’s not a single health care provider in Ontario who doesn’t point at this government and say, “This is them. They’ve made this worse. They started the problem, the Liberals, but they actually broke it now permanently.”" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "It’s always an honour to rise, today to debate Bill 216, the government’s fall economic statement. Since the economic statement was released yesterday, I can’t tell you how many people have reached out to me feeling abandoned by this government:", "—young people who are forced to leave Ontario, because they can’t afford to buy a home;", "—full-time workers who can’t pay the rent in the communities they work in;", "—an unprecedented number of people experiencing homelessness right now in Ontario;", "—the 2.5 million people looking for a family doctor or a primary health care provider;", "—the 2,000 people experiencing hallway medicine, which has doubled over the last five years;", "—people with disabilities being forced to live in legislated poverty;", "—children stuck on a never-ending wait-list to access mental health services;", "—families desperately seeking supports as programs and services for people with developmental disabilities are cut;", "—children with autism and their families on a wait-list that’s ballooned now to 73,000 people;", "—people whose basements were flooded this summer because our infrastructure isn’t ready for the severe unsafe weather events fuelled by the climate crisis.", "The list of people feeling abandoned is long, and it’s growing. As the Ontario Green leader, I oftentimes talk about the climate crisis, but I think right now in Ontario we’re experiencing a deeper crisis. It’s a crisis of caring—caring for the most vulnerable in our society: people who are struggling, people who are trying to get by, people who depend on public services. They look at a government that yesterday handed out $200 cheques to millionaires and billionaires like Galen Weston.", "You know, I had Professor Jennifer Robson, who is a professor of tax policy at Carleton University—she specializes in how tax policy is implemented, and she said what I suspected: that the most vulnerable people in Ontario likely will not receive $200 cheques, because they don’t file taxes, because they don’t need to, and because many of them are experiencing homelessness and do not have an address to send a cheque to.", "Those folks desperately need $200. I don’t know if millionaires and billionaires need $200; I know those folks need $200. The government didn’t go out of its way to come up with an alternative plan for those folks to get $200, but they did come up with an alternative plan for people who make too much money to qualify for the Canadian child tax benefit to apply for $200 for their children.", "So I would ask the government: What kind of society are we living in? What kind of society are we creating, when the most vulnerable, the most desperate in our province can’t even have access to the little $200 cheque they’re sending out, when millionaires and billionaires get it?", "Speaker, in this bill and in the fall economic statement, we learned what many of us have been saying would happen: Housing starts are going down. They’re not going up. The housing crisis is getting worse. The primary driver of the affordability crisis in the province of Ontario is the lack of access to housing. It’s affecting middle-income people, working people, people on social assistance. People are struggling to get a home.", "I know the finance minister, yesterday, said the reason Ontario is not going to hit its targets is because of high interest rates. There’s no doubt there are high interest rates. But do you know what? It’s not affecting other provinces, which are having far higher housing starts than the province of Ontario is. The number of housing starts per 10,000 residents—Canada average for that is 41. Do you know what it is in Ontario? It’s 35. We’re not even at the Canadian average. As a matter of fact, Alberta is far ahead of us, at 69—British Columbia, 57; PEI, 61. Other provinces are figuring out how to build homes when Ontario is not.", "Why are we not building homes? Well, the Premier has said no to changing zoning laws to make it easier for gentle density and missing-middle housing. He said no to my bill to say fourplexes should be as of right across the province. One builder told me that if only 18% of existing single-family homes in Ontario became a fourplex, that would be 1.5 million homes built where we already have infrastructure in place. He said no to my bill to build six to 11 storeys as of right on major transportation corridors. I had a number of builders tell me that if they’d say yes to that, we could cut times in half for building those mostly purpose-built rentals, but also some condominiums in there as well.", "If we don’t start saying yes to housing, we’re never going to hit this target. As a matter of fact, the province’s own Housing Affordability Task Force—those are their two primary recommendations: to say yes to legalizing gentle density and missing-middle housing.", "Speaker, as my colleague from Kitchener Centre pointed out on multiple occasions, renters are being failed in this province. We have to say yes to bringing in protections for renters. We have to say yes to fixing the Landlord and Tenant Board, which isn’t working for landlords or tenants.", "And this province has to start getting back into building non-profit, co-op and permanent supportive housing. Speaker, 93% of the deeply affordable homes in the province of Ontario right now were built before 1995. What happened in 1995? The province got out of building those kinds of homes.", "So it’s no wonder the housing crisis is getting worse and worse each and every year. It’s no wonder 200,000 people are unhoused tonight—and I know the Premier made some comments in the media about how we should take their charter rights away, when it comes to encampments. I just want to say, where are these folks supposed to go? There is no housing for them, unless we start saying yes to building deeply affordable homes.", "The co-op housing federation was just here yesterday. They’re ready to help us build 250,000 homes that are deeply affordable, which is exactly what Scotiabank is calling for. They’re saying the province and the federal government have to get back into the game of building housing. Unfortunately, we had a chance in the fall economic statement to do that, but the government decided to send $200 cheques to millionaires and billionaires instead.", "Health care: I have so many residents in my riding calling me—I got three texts today asking, “Can you help me get a family doctor?” I do everything I can. I work with the family health team. I’m calling folks, trying to get folks access to a doctor or a primary health care provider. But the reality is, 2.5 million people don’t have access to a doctor or a primary health care provider right now—2,000 people being cared for in a hallway right now.", "We have hospitals in the province of Ontario, especially in rural ridings, taking out lines of credit just to meet payroll, hiring private agency nurses because they’ve lost so many of their staff due to the government’s wage restraint legislation, and paying millions more for that. That’s why people are waiting in emergency departments. That’s why we’re seeing temporary closures of emergency departments. That’s why we’re seeing so many people not being able to access health care services, and yet there was a 4% increase in the fall economic statement, not even enough to meet inflation, let alone the costs of dealing with the government’s unconstitutional legislation.", "1710", "Mental health: I know the minister is here, and I appreciate the minister coming to my riding to open a youth wellness hub. Thank you for that. That was a great day in Guelph, just a few weeks ago. But I also want to acknowledge that 30,000 kids are on a wait-list right now to access mental health services. There’s this conversation happening in Ontario right now about involuntary care. How can you even have that conversation when people who want care for mental health or addictions treatment can’t access it because there aren’t enough care providers? The Canadian Mental Health Association and others are saying, “We need funding increases to hire people to be able to meet the demand that exists in the province of Ontario.”", "ODSP recipients trying to live on $1,300 a month: Do you know what their housing allowance is? The shelter allowance is $556, Speaker. Average market rent in Ontario is over $2,000. The math doesn’t add up, yet poverty costs this province $33 billion a year. It would just be far cheaper to end legislated poverty and take the stress off our health care system, our mental health care system, our criminal justice system, our first responders.", "Developmental services: I have parents coming to my office right now. Speaker, I’m taking about this. I think the people of Ontario need to hear some of these stories because I don’t think everyone realizes the crisis state that our caring professions are in right now. I had a woman come into my office and say, “My son, who has a developmental disability, has been on the housing wait-list for 10 years and hasn’t moved at all”—desperate. She had tears in her eyes. She said, “Do I have to commit suicide to make things so bad in our family that my son can move up the list?”", "So I talked to the treasurer of Community Living Guelph Wellington, and he was saying that, over the 30 years, they’ve received a 7% increase in funding. Inflation during that time has been 60%. He said, “That’s why we’re selling off group homes. That’s why we’re cutting programs and services. We just don’t have the money.” The math doesn’t add up.", "I’m almost out of time but I just want to close. There were a lot of fantasies about tunnels and highways that are uncosted in this budget. But we don’t even have enough money to maintain our existing roads and bridges. The backlog for roads and bridge repair is $25 billion in this province. That’s why, in rural ridings, you’re seeing roads and bridges close.", "The cost of climate to our infrastructure is going to be $4 billion a year. There’s nothing in this budget for it. It was $1 billion just this summer in Toronto alone, Speaker. I think we can do better." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "To the member opposite, thank you for your presentation. You did touch on housing. I think all of us in the House recognize we have a housing issue in the province, given the population increase here over the last couple of years, which is second to none in North America. Our government has put through some proposals. We’ve had more purpose-built rentals; in fact, a record number with getting rid of the tax on purpose-built rentals. We are increasing density around transit areas, including GTA areas like Mississauga, Toronto and in my community of Oakville.", "What more do you feel we can do specifically around transit hubs? We’ve put some policies through. What more should we be doing around transit hubs to increase intensification around those particular hubs?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "I appreciate the member’s question. First of all, I would say let’s follow the Housing Affordability Task Force put together by your government to legalize six to 11 storeys as of right along major transit and transportation corridors. That would cut building time in half, according to builders, and would be the fastest and cheapest way that we could increase housing supply.", "I would also say for the government to reverse their reversal on doing some of the transit-oriented density around certain transit stops that the government has backed off on. Because I agree with you: We should have density around transit stops. So let’s make it easy. Let’s make it legal. Let’s get rid of the red tape so we can actually start building that gentle density and missing middle we need.", "Finally, I would say, there are a lot of single-family homes in and around transit stops. Why don’t we legalize multiplexes? Again, almost every builder or housing expert I talk to says that’s the fastest and cheapest way we can quickly increase market supply." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "I want to say I appreciate the presentation that was made by the member. In his presentation, he referred to the support that people need when they’re hit by climate-driven flooding. I would like to know if, in his exploration of the document, there is funding for climate adaptation or support for those who are affected by extreme weather driven by the climate." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "I appreciate the member’s question. I didn’t find anything in the fall economic statement about that. I think climate change was mentioned once in the entire fall economic statement.", "I just want to say that the average cost to a basement flood is $42,000 for just one house. That’s just one house. The costs to the city of Toronto alone this summer—so it’s even bigger when you start factor in the GTA and stuff—according to the Insurance Bureau of Canada, when we had that big storm back in August or July, was over $1 billion. The estimate is the uninsurable losses were likely triple that—think about that—in just one day due to unsafe weather events. Those costs are only going to escalate for people and the public if we don’t actually start getting our infrastructure climate-ready, and I saw nothing in the fall economic statement that even mentioned it." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Dave Smith", "text": [ "What we saw in the fall economic statement is that organizations like Moody’s, Morningstar DBRS and S&P have all either given an upgrade to our credit rating or put us on a positive watch, because they believe that we’re actually doing the things that we need to do financially to make sure that our economy is doing well. That means that our interest rates will go down on money that we borrow.", "What we saw in the fall economic statement, then, is $1 billion less in interest than what we had projected because of that, yet you say that we’re doing the wrong thing. The four major credit agencies have said that Ontario is on the right path. We’re the only government in Canada right now that is on the path to balance. What do you have to say to the four major credit agencies who disagree with what you just said?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "First of all, I appreciate the question from the member from Peterborough. I don’t think they disagree with anything I said. Budgets are about priorities. Saving $1 billion on interest payments is a good thing; I’m not going to argue about that. What I’m opposed to is the fact that millionaires and billionaires, and even people with six-figure incomes, are getting a $200 cheque at a cost of over $3 billion, when we have so many other needs among the most vulnerable in our communities.", "The other thing that I didn’t even mention is $7.3 billion goes to be the only jurisdiction in North America to subsidize electricity prices. According to the Financial Accountability Officer, that disproportionately benefits wealthy people. The government has made a lot of decisions to provide rebates and benefits to the most wealthy in our society. Meanwhile, we have people living in legislated poverty. We have people with developmental disabilities not being able to access housing. We have record numbers of people experiencing homelessness.", "So for me, it’s about priorities. I would prioritize money to help working, middle-income and the most vulnerable people, and not the wealthiest in our society." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Tom Rakocevic", "text": [ "I thank the member. Of course, he is one of the hardest-working people here at Queen’s Park.", "I want to say to him that one of the things that we heard a lot about from Conservatives, especially during the government previous, was pointing out that Ontario had one of the largest sub-sovereign debts on earth. I don’t know why, but for some reason, we don’t hear this sort of language anymore.", "Of course, we’re all hearing about the potential of a looming election, and all of a sudden, a $200 pre-vote inducement fund is going out that will cost $3 billion to the taxpayers of Ontario. So there seems to be a lot less interest in dealing with the debt, in light of some of the announcements that the government has been making. What are your thoughts on this?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "I appreciate the question. If I’m not mistaken, Ontario still has the largest debt of any sub-sovereign jurisdiction in the world. That hasn’t improved, so it is true. This is why I want to talk about the fact that it’s $3 billion to hand $200 cheques to millionaires, billionaires and people with six-figure incomes. Why didn’t they means-test that and just have it for the people who need it the most?", "1720", "It’s $1.5 billion a year each and every year for the licence stickers—again, it disproportionately benefits people who own multiple vehicles. Why didn’t we prioritize those types of savings for people who are struggling the most?", "So it’s an issue of priorities when it comes to fiscal management. Something like poverty, for example, costs our province $33 billion a year. It would be cheaper just end poverty than actually have all those expenses. It’s just a matter of priorities." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Quick question, quick response." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Dave Smith", "text": [ "I want to touch on something that the member just talked about in his last answer. In my riding, there are 128,000 people. The average income, as of 2016, was $69,000 for a family. That means that 64,000 people in my riding earn $69,000 a year or less, and they’re all going to get a cheque for $200. And yet, the member opposite talks about billionaires. I don’t have a single billionaire in my riding.", "Disproportionately, 64,000 people in my riding with an income less than $69,000 are going to get a $200 cheque. Can the member not agree that is something that will help 64,000 people in my riding alone?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "I appreciate the member’s question, as always. Like I said in response to the last question, I don’t understand why the government didn’t means-test this. I don’t understand why the government doesn’t means-test their electricity subsidy. I don’t understand why they don’t target it to the people who earn $69,000 or less. Why not means-test it so it’s targeted to those folks instead of people who make six-, seven- and eight-figure incomes? To me, that’s the smarter way to go.", "I would also say, to the member opposite, the university in his riding would like to see sufficient money in place. Members in his riding would like to have access to a family doctor. They would like to go to an emergency department where there isn’t a long wait time or their loved ones aren’t being cared for in a hallway. They would actually like access to affordable housing so those neighbours of theirs who are living in tents have an affordable place to call home.", "There are costs associated with the fiscal decisions this government is making that have real detriment to many people in this province." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "It’s great to be able to speak today to Bill 216, Building Ontario For You Act (Budget Measures), 2024, or the fall economic statement. I would like to congratulate the finance minister and the parliamentary assistants—I see them here—from the riding of Milton and from the riding of Peterborough–Kawartha for the great work in putting this together, because I’ll tell you, Ontario is back. There’s no doubt about it: Ontario is back.", "Putting together a fall economic statement does not happen overnight. It takes months of hard work and many drafts. So I’d also like to thank the deputy minister’s office for putting this work together.", "This plan, the fall economic statement, represents our government’s commitment to investing in the future of Ontario and ensuring prosperity and building strong, sustainable communities. As the elected representative for Oakville, I’m especially excited to share how this economic plan supports my community directly.", "Ontario, like the rest of the world, faces significant economic challenges, from rising interest rates and inflation to the ongoing pressures of a growing population. We’ve seen the impact on families, small businesses and essential services. Despite these challenges, our government has remained steadfast in fiscal responsibility, while continuing to invest in the priorities for Ontarians. Our government is on track to balance this budget by 2026.", "Today, I will take the opportunity to highlight some of the major areas of our plan and how it directly benefits communities like mine in Oakville.", "First, with respect to fiscal responsibility and deficit reduction, Ontario’s finances have improved remarkably thanks to a disciplined, responsible approach to budgeting. This year, we are projecting a $6.6-billion deficit for 2024-25, a substantial $3.2-billion improvement over previous projections.", "With a clear path to balance the budget by 2026-27, we’re making investments in infrastructure, health care and public services without burdening future generations with unsustainable debt. Our net debt-to-GDP ratio is projected to be at 37.8% for 2024-25, the lowest in over a decade, showcasing our commitment to financial stability.", "This fiscal health enables Ontario to make bold investments in local communities. In my community of Oakville, financial prudence ensures that we can continue to build vital infrastructure projects. We can sustain our local health care services and support families and businesses through thoughtful economic planning. This is essential as Oakville grows and as we see more families move to our beautiful community.", "One of the biggest needs in Oakville and across Ontario is infrastructure. Our government has committed $191 billion dollars over the next decade to strengthen Ontario’s infrastructure, making it the largest investment in the province’s history. This includes $27.8 billion for roads and highways and $68.2 billion for public transit. For those living in Oakville, this means direct support in addressing congestion along major routes like the QEW, which impacts not only our daily commutes but also our local businesses.", "Investments in the 413, which will reduce travel times and support economic growth across the GTA, are especially relevant. Highway projects like the Bradford Bypass will also enhance connectivity to nearby regions, making an integrated transportation network.", "For our community, the benefits of these investments extend beyond roads. Improving highways benefits families, businesses and employees by reducing time spent in traffic. Families will spend less time on the road, allowing them to focus on activities at home and providing a smoother journey to and from school. For business owners and their employees, improved highways translate to faster, more efficient transportation, saving valuable time that can be reinvested into productive work hours. Altogether, better highways mean a stronger, more connected community, where time saved in traffic can be spent on what truly matters.", "Moving on to affordable energy and sustainable growth, affordable energy is foundational to Ontario’s economic success. The largest energy procurement in Ontario’s history, securing over 5,000 megawatts of new capacity, is being undertaken to guarantee affordable and reliable electricity for families and businesses alike. Oakville is home to diverse energy-intensive industries and businesses, from manufacturing to technology firms. By ensuring a sustainable and cost-effective energy supply, we’re helping to keep these businesses competitive. Nuclear energy plays a central role in the strategy, with Ontario leading in the adoption of small modular reactors to deliver stable clean energy to meet the increasing demand.", "Investments in sustainable energy also position Oakville to benefit from the growing green economy. Ontario’s clean energy focus provides Oakville’s businesses with the stability they need to innovate, expand and contribute to Ontario’s growth.", "Moving on to keeping costs down for families, our government is committed to easing the financial burden on families. Many households throughout the province and beyond have felt the pressure of inflation and rising costs, particularly from the federal carbon tax. Our government has responded by proposing to extend the gas and fuel tax cuts until June 2025, saving the average Ontario household around $380.", "To provide more relief, we are introducing a $200 taxpayer rebate early next year. Eligible adults in Ontario will receive $200, with families getting an additional $200 per child under 18. This immediate support will help families right now.", "1730", "For daily commuters, our One Fare initiative eliminates double transit fares. Oakville residents who use GO Transit and other regional transit systems are saving up to $1,600 annually, making transit more affordable and convenient.", "Our proposed continued freeze on post-secondary education is making higher education more accessible for families in Oakville and throughout the province, giving our young people the tools they need for success.", "Expanding health care and family support programs is critically important. Health care remains a cornerstone of our economic plan. A significant investment of nearly $50 billion in health infrastructure over the next 10 years is being proposed. This includes 3,000 new hospital beds and more than 50 new hospital projects. For Oakville, this means enhanced health care, infrastructure and services; reducing wait times; and allowing for more specialized care closer to home.", "The expansion of the Ontario Fertility Program with an additional $150 million to nearly triple IVF support offers valuable assistance to families here seeking fertility treatment.", "We’re also addressing the shortage of family doctors. Our government’s Ontario Learn and Stay Grant program is expanding to cover medical school tuition for those committing to practise in underserved communities and those committing to serve in family practice for the next five years, ensuring we have a stable supply of family doctors in the province of Ontario with our projected growth and population over the next decade. This initiative is estimated to connect an additional 1.36 million Ontarians to primary care. This will also support northern communities as we work to ensure that every resident has timely access to a family doctor within the next five years.", "Speaker, supporting municipalities and housing infrastructure is also critically important. We work very closely with our municipal partners wherever we are in the province. Oakville, like many communities in Ontario, is experiencing rapid population growth, with calls for expanded local services and more housing. We are increasing the Ontario Municipal Partnership Fund by $100 million over two years, assisting municipalities like Oakville with the resources they need to sustain our communities’ infrastructure and services.", "Our government is investing nearly $2 billion in housing-enabling infrastructure, including funds for water systems and municipal housing initiatives. In Oakville, this assessment means accelerating our housing goals, enhancing our infrastructure and ensuring that more residents have access to safe, affordable homes. By focusing on housing-enabling infrastructure, we’re setting Oakville on a path to sustainable growth. Our Building Faster Fund, awarding more than $260 million to municipalities based on housing targets, directly supports Ontario’s housing development and enables us to meet demand efficiently.", "Building a skilled competitive workforce is also critical for the future in Ontario. The strength of Ontario’s workforce is the bedrock of our economy. In Oakville, we see this daily in our thriving business sectors. To address labour shortages, we’re investing $260 million through the Skills Development Fund, targeting critical sectors like manufacturing, construction and health care. The Skills Development Fund has already been instrumental in training workers across Ontario, including in my community, where we have a growing demand for skilled tradespeople and health care professionals. In addition, we are modernizing our apprenticeship programs, promoting skilled trades and supporting the next generation of workers in finding fulfilling careers. Since 2020, Ontario has invested over $1.5 billion in skilled trades initiatives, empowering youth and residents to pursue promising careers that meet the needs of our economy.", "Ontario is also making strategic advancements in the mining sector, especially in the critical minerals in the Ring of Fire. This initiative, carried out in collaboration with our northern First Nations, positions Ontario as a leader in sourcing essential minerals for electric vehicles and renewable technology. This thriving sector supports 78,000 jobs across mineral processing, mining supply and services, while 25% of Canada’s direct mining jobs are based right here in Ontario and 9% of Ontario’s mining workforce is Indigenous—the highest percentage of any industry in the province.", "Ontario’s mining sector is a pillar of our economy, contributing approximately $14.3 billion annually to our GDP. As one of the top 10 global jurisdictions for mineral exploration spending, Ontario produced $15.7-billion worth of minerals in 2023, with critical minerals accounting for $6.4 billion. With 36 active mines and around 200 companies exploring over 400 projects, Ontario is at the forefront of Canadian mineral production, leading in gold, nickel and platinum.", "Our province’s favourable business climate, skilled workforce and incentives for innovation uniquely position Ontario as a critical supplier for North American technology. This will, of course, include batteries and electric vehicles. Our advancements into the mining sector will generate new and stable careers. It will also reduce dependency on international mining suppliers, providing greater stability and opportunities for workers in the north. This has the opportunity to unleash a new prosperity in northern Ontario.", "Driving economic growth and supporting businesses is critical for the future growth of Ontario. Ontario’s economy is robust and resilient, but we continue to target high-growth sectors. With $100 million added to the Invest Ontario Fund, we’re advancing local economies, creating jobs and establishing Ontario as a leading hub for manufacturing and life sciences.", "For Oakville, our local manufacturers benefit from the Ontario Made Manufacturing Investment Tax Credit, which helps businesses invest in innovation and expansion. Our 10-year Advancing Ontario Made Manufacturing Plan is a road map to expand Ontario’s manufacturing workforce to one million by 2035, positioning Oakville at the forefront of this growth.", "Our life sciences strategy is investing $146 million. Oakville stands to benefit from cutting-edge research and bio-manufacturing growth. This initiative supports local biotech firms and strengthens Ontario’s role as a global leader in the life sciences.", "Unfortunately, one thing we have seen a little bit more of in the province of Ontario over the last few years is organized crime and auto theft. We are the first government to actually put a new minister, who is sitting right here, in charge of that portfolio. Thank you, Minister, for the great work that you’re doing in combatting auto theft and bringing about bail reform, which we badly, badly need.", "Our government, right here in Ontario, is doing what it can to lower crime and put the people doing the crime into jail. Our government is bolstering resources to combat auto theft and organized crime by expanding air support capabilities. We are investing $134 million to acquire five advanced police helicopters. This was not a decision that was made by a government or bureaucrats; it was a decision made after talking to the police and the police chiefs and understanding what they need to do their job to minimize crime. It was the number-one ask that police chiefs had. We did not have the capability to monitor from the air, to reduce the number of high-speed chases, which reduces potential innocent people being killed in a car accident. This is going to play a major role in improving safety and reducing crime right here in the GTA.", "1740", "The Halton police will also be getting a helicopter, and I know they’re thrilled about the capabilities that’s going to provide them to keep my community in Oakville safe. The OPP will be obtaining two new H135 helicopters to collaborate with Ottawa and Toronto Police Services as well, while three additional helicopters—one will be used by my police force in Halton, but also the Durham and Peel Regional Police services to enhance patrols and response times. Those helicopters, incidentally, are built right here as well—Canadian-made.", "These investments are just a small part of our ongoing effort to strengthen public safety and ensure police services have the tools needed to respond effectively to major incidents and urgent situations. With state-of-the-art technology, these helicopters will be pivotal in making our roads safer and more secure, targeting violent carjackings, auto theft, street racing and impaired driving.", "The 2024 Ontario Economic Outlook and Fiscal Review, or FES, is about creating opportunity, allowing businesses the opportunity to flourish. It’s about ensuring affordability, providing a gas tax cut for drivers, for families, with providing the people of Ontario a $200 dividend. That dividend is really coming about because of increased revenue, because of fiscal prudence. That is money going back to the people of Ontario, where it originally came from. We’re ensuring people can get through these tough times.", "Our government is managing the finances responsibly, reducing the deficit in making thoughtful investments. When I came here into Parliament six years ago as a new MPP, with an enormous debt built up over many, many years, the largest sub-sovereign debt in the world, being downgraded, spending billions in interest a year—here we are, six years later, where we have a province that has economic growth; manufacturing jobs coming back to this province after having left for a decade or more; building new health care facilities; building long-term-care homes; building new roads, bridges and highways which are sorely needed, and still able to balance a budget in the next twelve months. It’s a phenomenal success, and I give full credit to the Minster of Finance and his team for bringing out the fall economic statement, which I believe is a road map for great success for this great province." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Tom Rakocevic", "text": [ "I want to congratulate the new associate minister on his new position.", "I heard something incredible this morning in question period, really incredible. What it was: Apparently, in the face of rising interest rates, the Premier had had enough, he picked up the phone and made a phone call to the governor of the Bank of Canada and he said, “Stop. Lower the interest rates.” And, according to the minister, the interest rates came down.", "My question is, considering—because we all know in question period that the ministers are fully honest in everything they answer. Since the Premier and this government had that power, what took so long for that phone call to be made, and will this government take responsibility for procrastinating on that phone call?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "Well, it is Halloween, so I take the question in jest. It allows me to talk about the opportunity, about what’s happening here in Ontario, because I didn’t really finish up on great success we have here.", "You may have heard that Ontario has created in the last year more manufacturing jobs in the province of Ontario than the entire 50 states combined. We are bringing jobs back to this province, having reasonable energy costs, lower regulations, having a skilled workforce, having a clean energy grid. We’re getting the policies in place to get this province back on track. I’ll tell you, it’s great that rates are going down too." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeDawn Gallagher Murphy", "text": [ "Thank you to the associate minister for his speech today. I found it difficult to hone in on things, because in this FES, this fall economic statement—there are so many good things in there.", "But the one I’m going to ask you about is about ensuring that Ontario remains a top destination for investment. Invest Ontario: Can you talk to us a bit about what the funding is? Because I know there’s an additional $100 million that we are investing in Invest Ontario. Can you talk a bit about that and how it’s going to continue to attract investors from around the globe?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "What a great question. Thank you to the member from Newmarket–Aurora. And you are correct: At the end of the day, in this province, we need to put the horse before the cart. We need to have a province of prosperity and wealth and job-creation, so we can have the great health care and the great educational facilities that we have in the province.", "Invest Ontario plays a role in that, and our government is committed to Invest Ontario. Invest Ontario has helped attract $4.1 billion in investments to Ontario and created 4,000 jobs directly—how many more indirect, I don’t know, but that’s direct. By creating the right environment, by attracting investment to the province, we’re getting the jobs and the prosperity. That’s what’s bringing us back to a balanced budget. And by the way, we’re the only government in Canada that hasn’t raised a tax, and yet revenues—when I came here in 2018, $150 billion; now, almost $220 billion, with no new taxes." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "I appreciate all the things that the government is saying they’re doing, but let’s be honest: You’re doing this all with borrowed money, because you guys are awash in debt.", "You talked about how when you took office, this government had the largest sub-sovereign debt in North America. Do you know who has that now? You guys. You guys have the largest sub-sovereign debt in North America. In fact, every man, woman and child in Ontario owes $26,000 as part of your debt. I know you’re giving them 200 bucks, but they still owe a lot of money—$26,000—and you have increased the net debt by $100 billion.", "You’re spending big, but we have hospitals where people wait for days to get a room. We have 2.5 million people without a doctor, and we have people who want home care bandages, when they’re at home trying to recover from cancer, that have to go to Amazon and buy their products when they should be getting it from this government, because they pay for it and they’re not getting it.", "So how you do you explain this explosion, this wash of debt that are you talking about, when you know that that is a fiscally irresponsible and unsustainable trajectory?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "Speaker, did I hear this correctly? Is the NDP becoming a party of fiscal responsibility? Did I hear that?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Well, we know you’re not." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "No, I don’t think I heard that. I don’t think so—spend, spend, spend.", "We get criticized for spending too much. Now it’s the deficit. At the end of the day, Speaker, we have grown a budget in Ontario from $150 billion to $220 billion with no new taxes. We inherited a fiscal deficit. There is no major government in Canada—look at Quebec; look at BC; look at the federal government—that has a path to balance. We’ve been able to do that while still making the investments in Ontario infrastructure." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further questions?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Tyler Allsopp", "text": [ "I’ll wait. It’s okay. Thank you very much, Speaker. I appreciate it.", "We’ve heard some members of the opposition say today that what you see in a budget represents the values of that party. When I look at this budget, we’re talking about fiscal responsibility; a path to balance the budget; more support for our Ontario municipal partners; fertility investment, helping couples and aspiring families have the children that they're looking for. We’re talking about Learn and Stay, hiring more doctors, getting people the health care that they need. We’re looking at crime and public safety, keeping people safe in Ontario.", "Investing in Ontario, bringing more jobs, getting people higher paycheques: If these are not the values of the opposition, why is it—considering that I’m sitting in our overflow caucus section—that these values are the ones that resonate so deeply with the people of Ontario?", "1750" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "Thank you to the member from the Bay of Quinte. It’s great to see you here. It’s great to have a question from you.", "You are absolutely correct; this budget is a reflection of our values. It’s a vision of fiscal responsibility, balancing the budget, attracting investment, but also putting the investments in health care, which are badly needed.", "This government is committed to getting more doctors in this province. We know there’s an issue. We understand that. We recognize that. That problem, by the way, was started when the Liberals cut down the number of medical seats in the province. Having said that, we’re increasing it—we’re dedicating those seats to Ontario doctors.", "This fall economic statement will also pay the tuition of doctors who are dedicated to stay in northern communities and to stay on as family doctors, which we sorely need.", "In order to attract people to this province and people to invest here—they want to see that this province is not only a great place to invest, but it’s a great place to live." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "The member from Spadina–Fort York." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Chris Glover", "text": [ "Congratulations to the associate minister on your new position.", "The Conservative government always talks about fiscal responsibility, and they pride themselves on being fiscally responsible.", "In 1995, they were fiscally responsibly selling the 407 for $3 billion. After 30 years of paying outrageous tolls and having that highway sit largely empty, the government is now thinking of buying it back for $35 billion.", "It’s not just the previous Conservative government that was making those kinds of deals. We just got the lease for Ontario Place, and according to the Premier, we are investing 1.5 billion tax dollars into it, and over 95 years, Therme and Live Nation—they’re going to pay us back $1.1 billion. So, in 95 years, our great-great-grandchildren will be paid back for our initial investment, plus they’re going to have the parkland for free.", "So how is it that the government continues to pride itself on being fiscally responsible, when they keep giving away our assets and subjecting future generations to paying off these really, really bad deals that the Conservatives keep making?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Crawford", "text": [ "Thank you for the congratulations; I appreciate that—to the good member over there.", "I will say, in terms of us being fiscally responsible, the proof is in the pudding. At the end of the day, S&P, Moody’s, Dominion Bond Rating Service—these are independent agencies of the government that look at every government and corporation around the world. They rate governments based on debt. They’ve all upgraded us. Our debt-to-GDP has gone down. You can see it in the numbers. We are the only major government in Canada that has a path to balance. So we’re getting the investments we need in health care, in infrastructure, in education; rebuilding roads, bridges, highways and subways, in a fiscally prudent manner." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "It’s always an honour to rise and speak on behalf of my constituents from London–Fanshawe. Today, I want to respond to the 2024 fall economic statement.", "I stand, also, on behalf of families of Ontario who are struggling under the weight of the economic crisis that is simply unsustainable. There have been many speakers in the Legislature today giving very concrete examples of how financially unsustainable things are today for many people, even working people. For many of my constituents in London–Fanshawe, the cost of living has spiralled out of reach, leaving them facing hard choices and, quite frankly, impossible situations—to the extreme, where people are homeless because they can’t afford to pay the high cost of living, which includes rent, which includes groceries, which includes insurance, which includes energy costs. It goes on and on.", "First, let’s talk about the cost of living. The harsh reality for Ontarians on social assistance is that they barely are scraping by. But it’s not just people on OW and ODSP who are feeling the pinch. Even families with two working parents are feeling the hard times. Families are doing everything right, and they’re struggling to make ends meet. Groceries, utilities, home and auto insurance, as I mentioned—everything is more expensive, and families are being stretched to the breaking point.", "When we talk about affordability, like I said today, it’s not unusual that someone who’s working has to access a food bank. Over one million Ontarians visited the food bank between April 2023 and March 2024, which is 8% higher this year—this represents a 134% increase from the same period since 2019 and 2020. The increase in the food bank use is due to a number of factors including the high cost of living, stagnant wages, insufficient income supports, rising housing costs and a changing job market.", "The Daily Bread Food Bank in Toronto sees about 350,000 client visits per month. That is a huge number and something we should not be proud of. More than 50% of new clients are employed full-time, and more than 60% have post-secondary education.", "The HungerCount report in 2024 found that one third of food bank clients are children, which represents nearly 700,000 monthly visits. This is, really, a number that I think we should all be surprised about, and that’s something that we all need to do something about.", "Some of these things in the fall economic statement—as one of the members pointed out, there are some things in there. But quite frankly, the financial burden that families have—this financial economic statement is not going to solve that situation.", "The $200 cheques that have been sent out: There has been a lot of back and forth about that, and I want to give a little bit of history on that. In 2000, actually, the Conservative government at the time, the Harris government, actually sent $200 out as well. I don’t know if everybody knows that. Full circle, we have Mike Harris, his son, here, and here we are today sending another $200 cheque out with the Conservatives. They’re not the only ones that sent out $200 cheques, repeating history from the Harris years, but also the Liberal McGuinty government sent out a $200 cheque in 2010.", "The member, at the time, I think it was, of Don Valley West had mentioned that it was because the Liberal government had a surplus and that’s why they handed out those cheques. Quite frankly, that isn’t accurate. They had a huge deficit in the budget.", "Sending out those cheques, again, what the motive is—I’m not going to impute motive, Speaker, but I don’t think it looks good. It’s not a good look when governments send out cheques. There’s speculation, perhaps, of elections coming up. I have to say, when the Harris government sent out their $200, there was a quick election afterwards as well. So it kind of goes hand in hand that—it seems a little self-serving. We’ll say that.", "There are also families that are suffering, people who are working—also children with disabilities. That is something that was especially hit hard. For three years, critical funding to social services, including the Ontario Disability Support Program, Ontario Works, the Ontario Autism Program and the children’s aid societies, have been frozen. Those funds have been frozen.", "There’s a lot of investment that needs to happen, Speaker, when we talk about services like this. I don’t know if you’ve seen the news article, especially in London—and I know the member from Hamilton Mountain also talked about what the children’s aid societies are going through right now. There are kids actually being housed in hotels. There are kids sleeping in staff’s offices. This doesn’t make sense.", "So when we’re talking about a fall economic statement, we have to look at it in all aspects of how we should be helping everyone. If we have $3 billion that we can use. I think we should reassess maybe, looking at another way of helping the kids I just talked about. I have a family—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "I apologize to the member from London–Fanshawe. The time has now come to an end.", "Second reading debate deemed adjourned." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes)", "text": [ "There being no private members’ public business—pursuant to standing order 100(e), as no business is designated for consideration, this House now stands adjourned until Monday, November 4, at 10:15.", "Happy Halloween, everyone. Have a great night.", "The House adjourned at 1800.", "", "", "", "", "", "", "" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "I’m pleased to speak in this House—I always am—but I have to say, I’m not pleased by this bill.", "As you are well aware, Speaker, all governments are imperfect, and I would argue this government is more imperfect than most.", "If you are a person who is trying to balance your budget; if you’re a person who is trying to cover your household bills, worried about your electricity bill or your gas bill or your insurance bill, worried about what you’re paying for groceries; then I have to tell you, you are not going to be happy about this bill—notwithstanding its title, which, I have to say, should be recognized as an act of creative genius, given how little it actually applies to the legislation before us. The bill that has been introduced is deeply flawed, and I want to touch on some of the key issues, and then I’m going to go into some depth.", "First of all, I think we all recognize that Ontario’s energy needs are growing—not a question. Now, more than ever, we need a government that keeps a focus on affordability, reliability and sustainability. You may or may not be surprised, Speaker, to find out this bill doesn’t require that those factors are actually taken into account in the plan that this bill will provide a framework for. They may be touched on, but they don’t have to be addressed in the plan.", "Any serious energy plan needs to shift to non-emitting sources and stop the overreliance on gas as we confront impacts of climate change. That’s not in this bill. And if you’re worried about higher grocery prices because drought or flood are affecting the crop-growing regions of North America, this bill is not one that’s going to help protect the price of food and future, because it is not one that explicitly uses the energy system to meet our climate goals and help the rest of the world protect itself.", "When it comes to large infrastructure projects, this government’s track record raises serious questions, especially on transparency and financial accountability.", "I would ask, when was the last time anyone in this building took a ride on the Eglinton LRT, or when did you last hear of the completion date of the Eglinton LRT?", "Delivering the goods and being open about what’s going on—not the forte of this government, and that is reinforced in this bill.", "With the right energy plan that’s grounded in evidence—I have to emphasize “grounded in evidence”—and transparency so that the public can actually see the basis for the decisions that are being made, and with the expertise of workers in the energy sector—and we have a very sophisticated workforce here in Ontario, people who are second to none globally—we can ensure that our province has the energy we need for a thriving economy in the low-carbon future ahead of us.", "It is key that we actually make sure that we continue to invest in the workers who develop our energy systems and support them in doing the critical work that they do to make sure the lights are on.", "However, this bill takes us in the wrong direction when it comes to transparency and depoliticizing our energy planning decisions. We’ve seen it before. We saw it under the Liberals. That politicization of energy planning was one of their signature calling cards. That was a huge problem. This bill reinforces that Liberal tradition of ensuring that things are not properly examined and that evidence is not presented or made available to the public. We’ve seen the dangers of politicized energy policies from previous governments.", "This bill’s attempt to cut out the independent regulator takes us further away from a future where energy policies are based in evidence and transparency. Again, I would say, with that direction, this government is the true inheritor of the Liberal tradition.", "Time and again, we’ve seen this government push legislation forward that takes away guardrails and accountability. This bill is no different. Bill 124 is an example of a bill that didn’t look after the people of this province, that did not actually reflect the legal framework that we operate in. This is a government that does not think that protection of your legal rights under our Constitution or charter is a really significant matter.", "There is no question that our energy needs are growing, but you have to be very careful about how you plan for meeting those needs and how you deliver. We’ve been here before. Ontario has previously heard projections of huge growth and energy demand and found that the projections fell far short of reality.", "I am saying there will be more electricity demand. There is no question we are moving away from fossil fuels, from oil and gas and coal, and as we do that, in the operation of our economy, people will be using more electricity. We’re going to see enhancements, growth, and digital capacity in Ontario that will require more electricity, but the question for all of us is—the need to get it right.", "It will be critical to avoid overbuilding, because that’s very expensive. Everyone who has gone through the experience of the last two decades under the Liberals will know from their wallets how expensive that is. We’ve all experienced that. On the other side—and there is no doubt about this—underbuilding is a problem, because then we face supply problems.", "As Yogi Berra has been quoted as saying,“Prediction is hard, particularly about the future.”", "That is the difficulty that we are going to face in sorting out what goes on here, which is why it’s critical that the public get the opportunity to examine all the data that is being used to develop a plan, and get to question those who have put forward that data in an open hearing.", "We need to go into this with our eyes open, with all the information on the table for public review and assessment. Let’s be humble. I know that’s tough. I know it’s really tough. But previous projections have regularly been wrong.", "I’m just going to do a little trip down memory lane for those who may not have been deeply scarred by this information already.", "0910", "In 1976—man, I was a young guy then—Ontario Hydro was projecting a 7% annual growth in electrical demand and calling for a vast building program of new power plants. None of the plants they called for in that year were ever built—zero. Peak power demand, two decades later, in 1997, was 22,000 megawatts, not the 57,000 that hydro had predicted. So they were a bit off. They were tens of billions of dollars off in their projections of what we needed to spend. I want to say to people, $10 billion here, $20 billion there, $30 billion over there—after a while, you’re talking real money, and it shows up on people’s hydro bills. So that was 1976.", "In 1989—let’s go forward—all of that is sort of forgotten. Ontario Hydro called for an aggressive program to build new power plants, as they had in 1976. Hydro was forecasting that peak demand would track economic growth at 2.5% per year and top 35,000 megawatts by 2014, 50% above its 1989 level. What happened? In 2014, peak demand was lower than it was in 1989, when the plan was hatched.", "So those are two occasions when what I would say were pretty bright minds got the numbers wrong dramatically.", "In 2005, I want to say to all of you, the Liberals actually decided to go whole hog. The newly formed Ontario Power Authority forecasted that peak demand for electricity would start growing nearly twice as fast as it had over the previous 15 years, reaching 30,000 megawatts by 2025. Worried that a gap might develop between supply and demand, the government expedited approval of new gas power plants, and we all know how that went.", "I actually had the opportunity—I don’t know if the member from Renfrew-Nipissing was on the committee as well, and if he wasn’t on it, he was certainly around for the gas plant inquiry. We got a chance—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "Those were the good days, my friend. Those were the good days.", "Anyway, we were dealing with a $1-billion scandal for two gas-fired power plants that the Liberals had commissioned with the argument that, if they weren’t built, lights would go out in Oakville and the west end of the GTA. As you know, those plants were never built there. We put out about a billion bucks. The plants were built in Napanee and down in Windsor, and frankly, the power crunch that the Liberals were projecting at that time didn’t appear.", "In fact, in 2023—and I looked it up last night; and I thank my teacher who taught me how to read and use a computer—the top demand day in 2023 was 23,713 megawatts, slightly above where we were in 1997.", "So I urge everyone in this room to be cautious. We have to be sensible. If you don’t build enough capacity, there is a real problem. We all know that. But if you overbuild—and we’ve lived it through our wallets and our purses; we’ve lived it through the bills that have landed through the mail slot—it’s awfully pricey.", "The government is basing its approach on the Independent Electricity System Operator, and they’re forecasting a dramatic increase in peak demand by 2050 for Ontario to successfully decarbonize its economy. I think decarbonizing the economy makes tons of sense; it’s critical for us. And they could be right. But if we look at predictions in the past, we have to be humble about our ability to project. The IESO puts the price tag at meeting that demand at about $400 billion, and it’s the only number we’ve got. We haven’t had one from the government on its electricity plan. But if you look at the vision paper that the previous energy minister put out and you look at the IESO plan, there’s a lot of overlap—so let’s say in the $400-billion range over the next 27 years. That’s just for the big generating plants. I’m not talking about the transmission lines that take that power across Ontario.", "If you’ve gone out on the 401, out to Clarington, you see those big transmission lines. If you go past Pickering, you’ll see the big transmission lines. If you go to southwestern Ontario, you’ll see those big transmission lines. I want to tell you right now: They’re not cheap. They are pricey pieces of hardware. So if you’re talking about a big ramp-up of the electricity system, everyone out there who owns a wallet today could well find it thinner and lighter in the future, if we get it wrong. With $100 billion here, $100 billion there, soon you’re talking real money.", "It stands to reason that the shift to electric vehicles and heat pumps will add new electricity consumption to the system—that makes sense to me—although it’s interesting; the EV manufacturers and EV charging station suppliers have been to committee in the past, and they predicted a fairly small increase in the need for capacity. They said, “You have huge overcapacity overnight, so we can charge these at night. You actually aren’t going to have to build a lot more electrical generating capacity.” Maybe they’re right.", "But we need to know that there’s a transition going on, not just in generation, but also in how businesses use power, how homeowners use power. That transition, in the past, has led to tremendous reduction in the need for new power.", "I’ll just say, LED lights swept through North America, dramatically reducing demand. I used to be on Toronto city council—I don’t know what sins I committed, but that’s where I wound up for a while—and I sat on a committee dealing with the conversion of the street lighting system from old incandescent to LEDs, which, in the 1990s, were pretty cutting-edge. It was very clear that the reduction in power was going to be dramatic. That had a big, positive impact on the city of Toronto’s operating budget, but it also changed the environment in which we do power planning.", "As the price of power goes up, the attractiveness of investments that reduce your power consumption also goes up, and so you have these two things happening all the time. Be very careful when you predict power demand for the future. When you overpredict, you pay through the nose.", "We’re developing those technologies globally, but I’m not seeing, in this plan to make a plan—let’s be clear: This is not an electricity plan; this is a framework to write a plan, and that framework is profoundly flawed.", "Given what I’ve said to you all about the difficulty in predicting the future and the need for the public to be able to intervene, we need to be very careful about where we’re going, and we need a government that keeps the focus on affordability, reliability and sustainability.", "Affordability is affected by a variety of things—not just the generation technology, but, as I’ve said, all the wires to support it, all the transformer stations, all the staff you need.", "There’s no indication in this document, this plan to make a plan, that, in fact, the government will assess the evidence, put forward a plan and allow the public and stakeholders to question the government’s assumptions at a public hearing. The Liberals never allowed that—and for those who had the pleasure of sitting with me in estimates committee, I would go after Liberal ministers on this. Again, the member from Renfrew–Nipissing—let’s say he wasn’t a pussycat in those estimates meetings. I know it’s a shock to some members of that caucus, but he was not the shy introvert you know from social events." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Mike Harris", "text": [ "Are we talking about the same John Yakabuski?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "I’m just trying to make a point that in those meetings, he really came into his own. He was the man that you would expect he would be." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Mike Harris", "text": [ "You mean he was right?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "Oh, no. I won’t go there. I wouldn’t say he was right, but I would say he was aggressive.", "The Liberals wouldn’t put their plans out for public scrutiny and examination. They would not let that happen.", "If you’re going to be making investments in the hundreds of billions of dollars, you need to actually have an opportunity for the public to question those who put together the estimates.", "0920", "I’ll go back. Last year, the Ontario Energy Board, the body that regulates the rates that you pay for gas and electricity, had hearings about Enbridge. This was a very substantial hearing, because, as you’re all well aware, the world is shifting and, increasingly, we are not going to be using gas. Just as we moved away from coal, we’re moving away from gas. Enbridge presented a report by some very high-priced and, generally speaking, reputable consultants showing that it was cheaper to take on climate change by burning gas than making more electricity, which was a pretty strange report. Because there was the opportunity to actually go through the numbers and question those who were pulling it together, it was found that the report that was before the board was fundamentally flawed mathematically and in terms of understanding how energy systems work. Unprecedented, in my knowledge, the board ordered Enbridge to have the report rewritten so that it actually reflected reality.", "If you don’t have a public hearing where the public stakeholders can question those who put forward a report, then your ability to determine what’s true and what’s false is dramatically cut.", "I’ll say to all of you, if you’re paying a big bill now, if you’re having trouble covering your expenses now, you want scrutiny on spending in a way that would satisfy you that, yes, something has to be spent, or you want scrutiny that will show it doesn’t have to be spent and you don’t have to deal with a bigger bill. I think that’s the least one can do.", "This government says they’re committed to affordability—and when you hear that, my friends, grab your wallets and make sure no one else’s hand is in your pocket. They say they’re committed to affordability, but the bill itself says the minister may—not “shall”; “may”—consider affordability in developing his plan. Well, you’ve got to be kidding me—“may” consider affordability? I thought the title of the act was all about that, and yet it’s not required in the act. I asked the minister about that yesterday, and it was very impressive—he danced around, he shimmied, he shook, but he didn’t say, “Yes, you’re right. Affordability must be part of the plan. It should be a requirement in writing the plan.” It’s not there. If you’re concerned about paying bills, don’t you think the government should say that it’s mandatory, in writing the plan, that affordability is one of the focuses? But it is not in this bill.", "We also need to focus on reliability. There are a lot of threats to power getting from a power plant to your home and a lot of threats to the ability to turn on the lights, your television, put the kettle on—whatever. We’ve got inadequate generation as a potential threat. We’ve got cyber failures and cyber attacks. We’ve got equipment that’s aging, possibly failing. But the thing that’s not mentioned in this plan to make a plan is adapting to climate impacts.", "First of all, I think everyone in this room agrees—maybe someone can surprise me, but I think everyone agrees that the world’s weather is changing fast and, decisively, it’s getting worse. So, last year, the Ontario Energy Board actually put together a plan. They had London Economics International do a study for them, and they themselves wrote a study based on that—on how we’ll adjust to, how we’ll live with this new climate that we’re living in. I think it’s worth looking at some of what they had to say. They noted some recent weather events in Ontario that caught people’s attention.", "In May 2022, a derecho brought winds of 190 kilometres an hour to the Ottawa-Gatineau region. It knocked out thousands of trees, left 180,000 homes and other buildings served by Hydro Ottawa without power. Some of the outages lasted for days. The people from Ottawa can speak to this at greater detail than I can, and they can talk about it, I’m sure, with greater emotional depth than I can because they were either living with it or dealing with constituents whose lives have been upended by it.", "On September 21, 2018, six tornadoes touched down in or near the National Capital Region. When did Ottawa show up in Kansas? I have no idea how they moved that whole city down to Kansas, but that’s what we got. The strongest had estimated wind speeds of up to 265 kilometres an hour, others 220 kilometres, others up to 177 kilometres. Over 300,000 customers—in Ottawa, Gatineau, eastern Ontario—were without power. According to the Canadian Disaster Database, the estimated total costs attributed were approximately $334 million. The OEB sort of set the stage with, “Yes, you can expect very powerful storms that will take out the electricity system.” In Canada, insured catastrophic losses have risen from around $456 million per year over the late 1900s and early 2000s to routinely exceeding $2 billion per year.", "I want to say to you, you may think that the climate crisis is distant and not affecting you because no tornado has gone through your front yard recently, but you pay higher insurance rates, because when insurance companies put out billions, they recover that money from their whole customer base. That is consequential.", "People have seen the reports on Hurricanes Milton and Helene going through Florida, going through North Carolina. If you actually take to YouTube and take a look at some of the news stories on American television in the southern part of Florida, you will see that those people are paying—the ones who can get insurance—very, very high rates. Because if you haven’t been hit, your insurance company will come after you nonetheless to help make up the losses where they have been hit. The North American market is affected by those losses, the Canadian insurance market is affected by those losses. So the next time you get an insurance bill and you think, “Hey, what’s going on here?” some of it may well be profiteering, but some of it is the impact of climate change. That’s happening.", "Natural Resources Canada reported in August 2022 that Canada’s climate is warming at a rate of about twice that of the global average. Climate model projections showed that this will continue, and it will increase the risks that we face in our daily lives and in our economy. The OEB, which has provided all this information, reports that the electricity sector is one of the sectors most at disruption from climate change. That’s our nervous system. People in this room—well, maybe the pages weren’t around in 2003, but the rest of you—were around with the big power outage in 2003. Life was upended in this part of the world. Life was upended. When you’re talking about the nervous system of a society, you’re talking about the oxygen line of a society—in a hospital, it’s literally the oxygen line—you have to worry about how that change is going to affect the delivery of electricity to you and your family. So we need to take steps to protect ourselves against it.", "The OEB talks about a variety of direct and indirect impacts of climate change on our system, but I have to say, this plan to make a plan does not include addressing the whole question of adapting to the new world we live in. That is a major failing because if you’re talking about how the electricity system operates, how it operated 10 years ago, 20 years ago or 30 years ago is no longer a guide because we’re going into a different reality. When you go from Toronto to Montreal—Montreal is a very nice city but it’s a different place with different driving, different restaurants. It’s a great place actually, but we are not in the place we were 10, 20, 30 years ago. We are going into a world with far more extreme weather and we have not paid attention to it.", "I have to say, the Liberals talked a lot about climate, but when we had the big ice storm in 2013 and we had—in my riding, people were without power for weeks. There was never—that I’ve been able to get, nor has the legislative library been able to get—a follow-up study of what happened and what should have been done. It was promised at the time, but to my knowledge, there was no follow-up study.", "0930", "In some places like California, recognizing the impact on their power system, they are starting to put their power lines underground, which is an awfully expensive thing to do. You want to look at other things before you do that, because it’s about $8 million a kilometre, and we have many thousands of kilometres of power lines in this province.", "When the OEB looked at how you would deal with this different world, they talked about protecting key communications systems. They talked about replacing the aging infrastructure, so it would have a better chance of surviving extreme weather. They talked about the need for small, local grids so that people would have some local protection.", "In fact, I had the opportunity earlier this year, with a number of my colleagues, to present a bill to have the government facilitate and fund the development of local grids, not only because as technology evolves, it would produce cheaper power, but also to ensure that people have reliability, protection in extreme weather. That is something that needs to happen. Even the Ontario Energy Board thinks that is something that would help us in a crisis.", "They also say that we need energy efficiency to maintain livable conditions for longer periods, and they are right. People in North Carolina took a while to get power back on. People in Florida, in the area where those hurricanes hit, were without power for a long time. We’re going to need to do that if we are going to protect ourselves and our families in the years to come. That is something that needs to be tended to. It is not in this plan to make a plan. It is not addressed.", "It doesn’t make any reference to climate adaptation. There are a few things I’ve noted that aren’t here: transparency, a commitment to affordability, and taking account of adaptation. If you’re going to have a serious plan, it needs to shift our production of electricity to non-emitting sources, and stop overreliance on gas as we confront the impact of climate change.", "This is an integrated plan, or so it says, so it’s covering gas, electricity and, I assume, other forms of energy. We need to use this plan to help deliver on our climate targets, because we know that as the world gets hotter, our standard of living is going to be dropping. It’s going to be harder to bring in crops. It’s going to be harder to get goods moved around the world. We’re going to spend more on infrastructure that’s damaged, homes that are damaged, and other buildings that are damaged.", "This government has its own orphan climate plan that, in court, when they’re challenged on it, they sort of disavow: “Yes, we put it forward, but it really is of no legal consequence.” To not actually say in the plan that you are going to use our energy system, which is going to be central to this task, to meet our climate targets, is a gross loss of an opportunity—more than loss of an opportunity, it is a dereliction of duty.", "I think when you look at the government’s plan to expand gas plants in Ontario, that is a huge problem. When you look at this plan, you’re not seeing the commitment to reducing the use of gas.", "A few years ago, Toronto Hydro, Hydro Ottawa and, I think, the Peterborough public utility commission, who are all members of the Electricity Distributors Association, put together a report and sent it to the government, saying, “You’re about to invest major bucks in new gas plants. You can deliver the electricity services that are needed at a much lower cost by investing in conservation.” The Electricity Distributors Association got to cite the provincial electricity system operator saying, “Yes, it’s a lot cheaper to do this. The investment in conservation has been very effective at reliably meeting our needs in this province.” That plan was ignored by the government.", "Why is the government listing gas as an option for the plan while the reality is that we already have about a quarter of our system’s capacity as gas plants? Why would it be expanding that in the face of what’s going on with the climate? When you look at the financial needs that people in this province have, the affordability crunch they are dealing with, why you wouldn’t take the cheaper option is beyond me—not just cheaper, but effective.", "While I’m here, I will note as well that the rest of the world, which is suffering substantial damage from the climate crisis, is changing the way they deal with carbon. The European Union is bringing in what they call a carbon border adjustment mechanism. If you’re not reducing carbon use in your country or region, then you pay a penalty to sell goods into the European Union. If we want access to markets, we have to show concretely that we are reducing our carbon use, our carbon consumption. The European Union is entirely right to do that. Their pilot plan is around aluminum, iron, steel, cement, fertilizers. I don’t know how much of those things we send to the European Union, but given that other countries are starting to look at this, including the United Kingdom, Türkiye, Australia, if we want to trade internationally, we have to get serious about reducing our emissions.", "When you omit that from this plan, what you are saying to Canadian workers in manufacturing and heavy industry is, “Well, do you know what? We’re just going to hope for the best.” It says that you don’t have a plan to make sure that you can access those markets in the years to come. That is a substantial problem.", "I have already talked about climate adaptation and cost. I also want to note that the Financial Accountability Officer released a report on budget impacts of climate hazards to public infrastructure in Ontario. Although the report is fascinating and I know everyone in the room wants to hear every word that was written, I will just pick out the highlights—that’s that we have about $708 billion in infrastructure in Ontario that’s vulnerable to climate hazards. If we don’t invest to adapt to the extreme weather that’s coming so the bridges don’t get washed out, highways don’t get washed out, electricity lines aren’t taken down by high winds, then we are looking at adding about $4.1 billion per year, on average, to maintain our existing public infrastructure—$4 billion. You notice that, right, in a budget? It’s not $5 million; it’s $4.1 billion. We can invest now to make our infrastructure more resilient, hardier.", "Frankly, if you are not taking the opportunity, when you’re dealing with a major system like electricity, to help that system enable us to get to our climate goals, even though they’re inadequate in Ontario, you are not being responsible with the public purse. You’re not being responsible for those people out there who are struggling every day to pay their bills every month, to pay their rent or pay their mortgage. Those people are having their lives set aside.", "The next thing I want to say is that when it comes to large infrastructure projects, this government’s track record raises serious questions not only on performance but on transparency and financial accountability—and does it ever.", "I can’t say it often enough, but I sat in committees with Liberal energy ministers and watched Liberals in other circumstances, and frankly, this government is just following their lead. I don’t know what it is. Is it the water supply on the other side of the chamber? Is it something genetic? Who knows? But the Liberal approach is one that this government seems to have taken on and embraced and enjoyed.", "0940", "In my riding and in a few other ridings, the Ontario Line—by the way, we need these subways. You know how congested the streets are in this city. It can get pretty rough. So we need the investment. That project was sold as a $9-billion expenditure. In fact, when the Premier brought it in, he said, “The city was going to spend $6 billion or $8 billion on a relief line, a subway line from Pape station to the downtown. But for a few billion more, we can get 15 kilometres of line.” Well, as you may well be aware, that line is now costing about $20 billion. They actually, oops, overlooked $10 billion in expenses—or the Eglinton Crosstown.", "I had the opportunity to deal with the city of Toronto on their relief line, and I had a chance to deal with the province on the Ontario Line. With the relief line—constant public meetings, a lot of data, so that we could critique what was going on. Frankly, in the end, at least in my riding, although those people who had a tunnel going under their house weren’t fully happy, they understood the logic and they went with it. With the Ontario Line, when I would question a decision and ask for a cost comparison, I could not get the costs. I was told, “Oh, it’s more.” Well, how much? These are public accounts. This is public money. Why doesn’t the public get a chance to actually critique what’s going on there? I have to say, that is an approach that we see on the ground today, that is being perpetuated again in this bill.", "I just mentioned the Eglinton Crosstown. It seems to be in semi-permanent limbo. The opening date—state secret. I don’t know how they keep it as secret as they do. I’m sure there’s surveillance of the vault that the data is kept in. You can’t find out. The provincial agency is not up front about issues, and frankly, in that, they simply reflect the approach that is taken by their masters. I’m going to explore that a bit further in this speech.", "I know I’m starting to run out of time, and I’ve got so much more.", "This bill is actually about reducing transparency. The previous Liberal ministers, who worked really hard not to answer questions and who, in estimates, would be aggressive in saying, “I can’t answer that”—in fact, in one meeting we had, Todd Smith, the former energy minister, was there. We were asking about the sale of Ontario Hydro, and the energy minister had a lawyer sitting beside him. Every so often, I’d ask a question and the lawyer would dig into the energy minister’s ribs, and I wouldn’t get an answer. But that’s nothing. They were minor players. I’d say this government is moving into the big leagues with not being open about what’s going on.", "I think we should all recognize that with the right energy plan—grounded in evidence, with transparency, with the expertise of workers in our energy sector in Ontario—we can ensure our province has the energy we need for a thriving economy and a low-carbon, no-carbon future. We’re not short of smarts or skills in this province. We have an energy sector—very broad— with the intelligence, the training and the planning to meet our needs, second to none globally. But in order to do that, we’re going to need to give them a plan and a direction that makes sense. We can ensure a much richer economy.", "We spend, today, somewhere between $15 billion and $20 billion a year importing oil and gas and coal. The money goes to Pennsylvania. The money goes to, probably, Saskatchewan and Alberta. That comes out of our economy. If we were to take that cash flow and put it into Ontario to power this province, then we would have a much more robust economy.", "Something we did at the beginning of the 20th century when we developed hydro power in Ontario—renewable power—is that we developed the expertise to export engineering staff and knowledge globally. We were seen as a leader. And we could have done that with the current generation of energy production. We are not seeing it in this particular jurisdiction, in this particular regime.", "When we, the New Democrats, developed our Green New Democratic Deal before the last election, we were looking at what it would take to actually build out a green system, to actually invest in people’s homes and businesses, to dramatically reduce their use of energy so that their bills would be stabilized at a lower level; so that they wouldn’t have the same problems with emissions; so that, in a crisis, they would be in a position to ride out extreme cold weather or extreme hot weather. The reality in this province is that you would have labour power demands that you’d have to really work on meeting.", "We have the potential in this province to eliminate the import of oil and gas and put hundreds of thousands of people to work. People who are already working in energy could go further. People who are historically excluded from the labour force would have an opportunity to take part in a variety of well-paid, high-skill jobs. That’s something that we need to do. I’m not seeing that in this bill. I’m not seeing the commitment to a transformation of our energy system. I’m not seeing, even more importantly, frankly, the ability of the public to examine and question the evidence the government says it’s operating on. Without that—and it doesn’t matter what stripe the government is—the public is going to have real problems.", "The bill takes us in the wrong direction when it comes to transparency and depoliticizing our energy planning decisions.", "We’ve seen the problems, with the Liberals, of politicized energy policies from previous governments, with the governments cutting out any hearings before the Ontario Energy Board—real problems.", "The bill would be much more clearly labelled and understood if it was called simply the “just trust us energy bill, 2024.” That, I think, would express the actual heart of the bill and would be far better understood by people in Ontario.", "I would say to all of you, why is it that people in Ontario may not trust this government and this Premier? I’m going to expand on this further if I have enough time. But I just want to note—I’ll cite the greenbelt. In 2018, the Premier, running for office, told a room of developers that he’d open up a big chunk of the greenbelt for home building. When that was revealed, the Premier pivoted, understanding that he put his foot in his mouth up to his knee, and he made an unequivocal promise: “We won’t touch the greenbelt.” He repeated that commitment through his first term. Then, in November 2022, the Ford government changed its mind and removed 7,400 acres from the greenbelt slated for housing development. So how do you have trust in a Premier who only lives up to a commitment when there is a Mountie investigation going on?", "There are a lot of reasons to not just sign on to a “just trust us energy bill, 2024.” I think there are reasons to go to committee and try to change this bill. I think that would actually be a useful forum both for debate and, hopefully, for the government to see some reason and put transparency in the bill and require that affordability be a central part of the plan—not just “may” be part of the plan; require that considerations of affordability be there.", "This is a government that is proposing to build a tunnel under Highway 401. You’ve got to be kidding me." ] }, { "speaker": "Interjection", "text": [ "Apparently not.", "0950" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "Seriously, when I first heard it, I thought, “He’s talking off the cuff. He’s at a stand-up comedy venue, and he has decided to get whatever yuks he can by saying something that no one would believe any serious politician would say.” Apparently, I didn’t understand what was going on. The Premier is seriously proposing something that he won’t give a price for. He did say that we would do a feasibility study, and then he said, “Well, we’re going to build it anyway.” So I guess the feasibility study was more like putting a ribbon on the package—it didn’t change the contents, but it might be prettier.", "Those instances of not being able to trust the Premier say to me, this bill—man, you should not trust what is being put forward.", "Ronald Reagan said, “Trust, but verify.” And do you know what? Ronnie was right. You’ve got to do that.", "If you’re going to come forward and say, “I’m doing this,” give me the means by which I can verify that you are telling me the truth; that your evidence is actually consequential and it isn’t full of holes, it isn’t Swiss cheese—like the report that Enbridge brought to the Ontario Energy Board that was shredded and then had to be rewritten.", "The cost, the reliability, the sustainability of energy affects every person in the province. It’s the difference between making our household budgets work and not work. It can’t be driven by a bill that limits public access to information and effectively eliminates the potential for the public to have any input in our energy future. Just as the government changed the whole system of regulating gas with Bill 165, effectively ending regulation by a tribunal in Ontario, this bill takes the public out of the process; this becomes a far more lobbyist-driven planning process. That is not a good thing.", "I’m starting to get low on time. I can see that. I won’t ask for an extension this time.", "The Liberals vastly overbuilt the power system when they were in power, and we’ve all paid. We are paying, what, $7.3 billion a year in electricity subsidies now? What we’re paying in electricity subsidies makes the Ministry of Energy one of the big ministries in Ontario. It’s not education, and it’s not health—but boy, it isn’t the $400 million or $500 million it used to be. Speaker, $7.3 billion is a lot of subsidy dollars, and I’m not seeing in this plan to make a plan that that actually is going to be addressed.", "I want to go, in the time I have left, into some detail on the bill.", "Schedule 1 amends the Electricity Act to promote electrification and facilitate energy-efficient measures aimed at using electricity to reduce overall emissions in Ontario.", "As I said earlier, electrification makes sense. That’s where the world is going. We don’t burn coal to heat our houses anymore. In the future, we aren’t going to be using electric-resistance baseboard heaters because they are so wasteful. Technology has changed. We have the ability to dramatically cut our electricity use, make our homes warm and not use gas.", "So I have to ask: If the government is committed to electrification, why did we pass a bill to protect Enbridge’s plans to expand the gas system? On the one hand, we are saying we’re going to electrify everything; on the other, we’re saying we’re going to increase the number of houses that use gas. Which story is true? Is the government actually thinking that they are going to spend hundreds of billions on new power plants that won’t be needed because we have more gas in our houses?", "One thing I have to note: In Germany, because of their experience with Russia not being a reliable supplier of gas, more and more people are switching away from gas to electric heat pumps. That is setting in motion a dynamic for those who remain with the gas system seeing higher and higher bills, because fewer and fewer people are paying for the pipes in the ground. What the government is proposing is that fewer and fewer people will be using gas—or they are spending hundreds of billions to no purpose. At the same time, they’re sticking the existing gas customers with bills that they’re going to have trouble paying in the future.", "In an integrated plan, what is the government planning to do to protect those who remain on gas over the next few decades? In New England—there are some states that are now integrating the planning between the gas grid and the electricity grid, so that as gas users come away from that system, the gas lines are shut down, electricity is provided, and things are done smoothly, not in a jagged way that causes financial problems for the customers on both sides. Is the government proposing to do that? I guess we will find out. If you’re talking about an integrated plan and actually electrifying everything, then you have to have in the plan what that means to look after those who are still gas customers.", "This is the one that was striking—well, there were a number of things that were striking, as you may have gathered from my remarks to this point: “The minister may”—but not “shall”—issue an integrated energy resource plan setting out and balancing the government’s goals and objectives that may respect various listed energy matters. This replaces the existing requirement that the minister produce a long-term energy plan. It’s interesting to me that we’re debating a bill where production of a plan is actually optional. It doesn’t say the minister “shall” issue an integrated energy resource plan, which is sort of what you would expect if you were doing energy planning for this major part of Canada. Why do we not require a plan? Maybe the minister doesn’t want to be tied down to a plan. Maybe he wants to just fly by the seat of his pants. The minister may say, “I had a lobbyist come in and see me. That was a good story. I think we should put the bucks there. If I have a plan, well, that might tie me down.” It makes sense to have an integrated plan, but if it makes sense, it should be something that’s not just optional for the minister; it’s something that the minister must do.", "The bill goes on: The minister is required to launch a consultation on a new plan within five years of the issuance of the previous plan, if one is issued, but it’s not clear whether the minister is actually required to issue a subsequent plan. It doesn’t require it. I have to say, the Liberals ignored their long-term energy plan system. Their system would have required hearings. They ignored that. We went after them on it. As everyone in this room is well aware, actually adhering to their own laws, own bills, was not something they were really hot on. This government seems to have the same approach. I don’t know why they wouldn’t do this. Logic dictates that you would actually require a plan. Maybe it’s just, again, as I was saying, that they want to make sure they’ve got the freedom to satisfy the most recent lobbyist who has come into the room.", "Note that the existing requirement that this be a long-term plan was removed.", "Subsection 25.29(2)—I know you all need to know the exact number—of the current Electricity Act lists various energy matters that “may” but not “shall” be covered in the energy plan, including cost-effectiveness, reliability and use of cleaner sources. This bill makes various changes to this list, including consumer affordability, enhancement of energy infrastructure to support economic growth, and cost-effective procurement. Again, the items that may be covered don’t include climate adaptation.", "So the next time you’re freezing in the dark and wondering, “Will the power ever come on?”—maybe you will have the opportunity to experience what people in Florida got to experience, and that’s sweating through the night, with the food rotting in the refrigerator, wondering when or if the power is going to come on.", "The bill doesn’t include meeting our climate goals, and that, given the climate damage we face, is a huge omission. It also gets rid of making efficiency in conservation the first step, the priority.", "1000", "Yesterday, the minister, in his opening remarks, said that the cheapest way to provide electrical services—the cheapest kilowatt is the one you don’t have to generate. Do you know what? The minister was right. You can’t meet 100% of our electricity needs through energy conservation or efficiency—you just can’t. You do have to produce power, but the starting point of any plan that is affordable is to make sure that the cheapest option is the foundational stone, the starting point, and then you go on after that. If the government were to say, “In the process of setting this plan, we’re going to first determine what’s the least expensive source of power that meets our other needs around reliability and sustainability”—but that isn’t in here either. So you really have to ask how you’re going to make it affordable if affordability is not cooked in right at the beginning.", "This bill—oh, my goodness; time is short, and so much to say.", "The current act requires the IESO to publish a technical report on the adequacy and reliability of electricity resources prior to launching consultations on the energy plan—the minister “shall” publish other information, such as key data and cost projections, but only if the minister determines that this information should be made publicly available. I think I’ll wrap up there. If it’s what the minister thinks should be available, rather than what the public needs to make a determination as to whether or not something is going to work and is affordable, that is a profound problem.", "This bill does not, as its title might indicate, actually help people with higher bills. Frankly, you’ll hear the word “affordability” mentioned 20 or 30 times because it’s nice to say it. If people hear the words, they often think something is being done, but just because someone says something, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the case. That’s the problem we face here. Repeating something lots of times doesn’t actually mean that something is being done in the area that we’re concerned about.", "I would say this “just trust us bill, 2024,” has profound flaws. I think, in committee, it would be worth having debate about them. Hopefully the government would amend it so that they overcome some of the worst sins visited upon the province by the Liberals and actually bring forward a plan that’s useful. If they don’t amend it profoundly, this is not going to lead to electricity people can afford; it’s going to lead to electricity that will make life far more difficult for them." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "It’s now time for questions." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Yakabuski", "text": [ "I want to thank the honourable member across the way for his one-hour address on this. We always have a good time chatting on these things—rarely agree, but we agree to disagree.", "I do want to raise a couple of points that the member mentioned. He talked about the Liberals politicizing the system. He used the word “affordability.” And then he went on to talk about this credible company, this firm, London Economics International. Well, I have to ask the member—because London Economics International told us that the Green Energy Act was going to cost a minimum of $40 billion.", "You’re talking about affordability. You’re talking about politicization.", "We talk about the most expensive act in the history of the province with regard to accelerating the cost of electricity, and I have to ask the member if all of those things—and you’re still repeating them today, not just 15 years ago. Why did your party support the Green Energy Act if you knew that it was going to cause such a problem that we are trying to address today, which is the issue of reliability and affordability in our electricity system?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "First of all, I appreciate the commentary from my colleague.", "We sat through the hearings, which happened all over the province, on the Green Energy Act. If you’ll remember, in a number of rural areas, farmers came forward saying, “We need this because we need the income.” I want to note that we, on our side, tried to amend that act to ensure that private companies didn’t get to build this new green infrastructure; that it was public and community-based. As the member will recall, he voted against making this new green infrastructure—that it was public and community-based. As the member will recall, he voted against making these new installations public. Our sense was that a publicly owned renewable energy system would actually deal with the problems that we have. I will note as well that gas-powered plants provided power at dramatically higher costs than the green plants, the green installations that went forward.", "I think we have a problem with the Liberals in the way they operated that system from top to bottom." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I want to thank my friend from Toronto–Danforth for his remarks.", "When I think about the goal of the legislation and what the member had to say—making energy affordable—I think of, particularly, seniors living in rural parts of our province, who are continuing to live in energy poverty.", "I look at a province like Prince Edward Island and what they’ve been able to do to help those homeowners, those residents, to get off expensive forms of home heating and on to heat pumps.", "I look at the IESO’s program—in order to qualify for the program, a household of two has to be making a before-tax income of $64,000 or less. Meanwhile, energy companies, including Enbridge, which the member named, are enjoying fantastic profits.", "My question for the member: Why won’t the government consider asking Enbridge to pay some kind of levy, like the UK government is doing, in making sure that those seniors can make that transition to affordable energy for their homes?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "I appreciate that question.", "Enbridge makes a fortune. Enbridge is a money-spinner. Enbridge is a multi-billion dollar corporation and, frankly, I think that having Enbridge assist in making the transition to heat pumps makes a lot sense. I would say to Enbridge, “If you want to actually have a future, if you want to continue in business, it would be a great advantage to you to actually get into the heat pump business—install them, lease them, make money—because you know very well, and it was clear from the presentations that you made at the Ontario Energy Board, that there is not a long future for gas in this province.” Maybe a few decades—it isn’t going to be gone overnight.", "If you’re actually going to meet climate goals, we’re not going to be burning gas in 2050—or if we are, it’s going to be very, very small amounts.", "Enbridge has a responsibility, I think, to its customers and to its workers to look at a new business model. I agree with my colleague. That’s the correct approach." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sam Oosterhoff", "text": [ "I have to correct the record for the member opposite. He spoke about the fact that he thinks Türkiye has better standards than Ontario when it comes to emissions. Ontario emitted 3.8 megatonnes last year in the production of electricity; Türkiye emitted 374 megatonnes. I don’t know how that math works out and why he’s praising Türkiye when Ontario has a very, very clean grid.", "I didn’t hear the member opposite speak about nuclear in his presentation. We know how important nuclear is and its value to Ontario.", "Will the member opposite stand in this House and say that he firmly supports the continued build-out of our nuclear fleet and sector here in Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "I have to say first, it’s unfortunate that the member didn’t listen to me closely when I noted that Türkiye is looking at bringing in carbon-based adjustment mechanisms so that companies have to pay money to ship goods into Türkiye if they haven’t actually taken action on carbon. I’m not saying Türkiye is better. Listen to my remarks. Our good people from Hansard are here. I suggest you read Hansard tomorrow or maybe this evening—the early rushes—and see that I didn’t say that Türkiye had better standards. I just said that Türkiye, along with other countries, is going to bring in a carbon tariff if you want to sell into that market, and if you don’t do—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "Yes, thank you." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I want to point out, just further to what I asked the member, in England, there is an energy profits levy on 25% of profits in the North Sea sector—recently expanded to 38.1%. That has generated, for the British economy, for investment into renewal energy, $3.6 billion.", "1010", "I think about a truck driver I met in the by-election in Belleville, when I went down to knock on doors there. I talked to that truck driver, and he told me about when he would drop off fuel at a homeowner’s house, and he knew that that homeowner could not pay the $1,200 bill for the fuel-up that that homeowner was going to pay and that they were going to be in an arrears to his company. He had to drive away thinking about how that family is going to choose between heating or food.", "Why don’t we ask Enbridge, which is a massively profitable company, to pay more money into the treasury so we can help those seniors get affordable energy? Why isn’t that in this bill?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "It’s a good question.", "I have to say, I can’t speak for the government—and I think they would be horrified if I tried; I’m getting assent on that side of the aisle. I can’t say why they aren’t proposing that fabulously wealthy oil and gas companies aren’t paying to help society, aren’t actually addressing those issues, but they should be. There’s no getting around it.", "Frankly, on a somewhat different tangent, increasingly in North America, there are jurisdictions that are starting to sue oil and gas companies for the damage they are doing. Oil and gas companies have worked assiduously to tamp down any actions on climate.", "I think you’re quite correct; oil and gas companies should be anteing up. They’ve got the money to do it." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sam Oosterhoff", "text": [ "I appreciate the member sharing some clarifications in his previous answer, but I do want to repeat the second part of my question, because I noted, again, he didn’t talk about nuclear.", "We know the importance of nuclear here in Ontario as a baseload, capacity-building tool that we have in our energy tool box.", "Again, would the member opposite in the NDP stand firmly in support of maintaining and expanding our nuclear fleet here in the province of Ontario and continuing that important resource?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Peter Tabuns", "text": [ "The simple reality is that nuclear is a substantial part of our electricity system in Ontario.", "The other reality is that this government has firmly refused, at every point, to say what kind of expense we’re looking at for any energy investment. It’s not just that you’re silent about investment and nuclear; you’re silent about any other investment, as to what it will cost.", "Anyone who looks at a plan with no price tags, no projection as to what the capital costs are going to be, what the power is going to be—why on earth would you say yes to something that’s uncosted? Would you sign a contract with no price on it? Would you buy a house with the cost of the house blank, so that you get to pay whatever the vendor wants to sell for? I don’t think you would. But maybe I misunderstand you." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Unfortunately, we are out of time for questions.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "I know, but it is now time for members’ statements.", "Second reading debate deemed adjourned." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Amarjot Sandhu", "text": [ "Today, I rise to recognize the inspiring journey and contributions of Mr. Lajpat Rai Prasher. A Canadian success story, Mr. Prasher came to this country over 50 years ago with a vision for a better future. Through hard work and dedication, he established and grew a telecom enterprise from modest beginnings, eventually selling it to Telus, a leading Canadian telecommunications provider.", "Mr. Prasher’s impact goes beyond business. He has dedicated his life to supporting strong community values and fostering relationships between Canada and his country of birth. Known for his openness and inclusivity towards all faiths, he is highly respected in the community. Recently, Mr. Prasher received the lifetime achievement award from the Canadian Hindu Chamber of Commerce recognizing his long-standing contributions as an entrepreneur and community leader. His life exemplifies the spirit of resilience and community that defines Canada. I am honoured to call him my friend and mentor.", "Congratulations, Mr. Lajpat Rai Prasher." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "I was honoured to join Rob Baboth, his family and colleagues as they presented a cheque to McMaster Children’s Hospital to purchase a new Cribette for the neonatal intensive care unit. This is in honour of Dianne Baboth. The Baboth family has raised funds for the children’s hospital since 2009 by holding an annual golf tournament in her name. The proceeds have contributed to three rooftop playgrounds that allow patients and their families to play outside and to gather for things like movie nights and pictures, things that would be impossible for children and their families—to spend so much time at the hospital.", "I would like to say that we also had a chance to tour the cancer ward and see the remarkable things that the folks at McMaster Children’s Hospital do—and you would know that, Speaker. We saw the incredible ways that staff have been able to use the donations from the Baboth family to improve the patient experience for the kids and for their families, and for the siblings too. We have to remember that when one child is sick, the entire family is impacted, and the Baboth family understands that. Their commitment is incredible.", "I want to say that I appreciate seeing the McMaster Children’s Hospital—I, from the bottom of my heart, appreciate everyone in that hospital. It goes out of the way to make sure that children and their families who are experiencing life-limiting or, perhaps sometimes, life-ending experiences—that they do everything they can to make sure that they live in dignity and that they have healthy outcomes.", "I want to thank the community, who donates the funds to make sure that our families, when they’re going through the worst possible thing imaginable—they may feel alone when they’re in the hospital, but when they see those playgrounds, when they see those contributions, they know there’s, in fact, a community behind them." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Deepak Anand", "text": [ "Ontario’s 31,500 physicians delivering emergency care, managing chronic conditions, promoting preventive health are the backbone of happy and healthy communities. Thank you for your service. With Ontario’s population growing and aging, having access to quality health care is more critical than ever.", "As a proud Schulich MBA graduate, I’m thrilled to see my alma mater, York University, building Canada’s first medical school dedicated to training primary care physicians, backed by an initial investment of $9 million from the 2024 budget, Building a Better Ontario. Set to open in September 2028, York University’s school of medicine will be devoting approximately 70% of its new postgraduate seats to primary care and will have up to 240 undergraduates and 293 postgraduate seats once at full capacity.", "Together, with investments like this, we are building a stronger health care system that meets the evolving needs of residents from Mississauga–Malton and Ontario.", "The commitment of our government added 260 new undergraduates and 449 new postgraduate medical seats.", "I want to wish the best of luck to all the future doctors of York University. I’m excited to see the community coming together to support this project.", "Thank you, Premier, thank you, Minister of Health, and thank you, President Rhonda, for all your support. Together, we’re going to build a better, stronger Ontario." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Jill Andrew", "text": [ "Today is a big day. The Conservative government will unleash their fall economic statement, letting Ontarians know what is and what is not their priority.", "So far, we know that the government has committed to giving Ontarians $200 rebate cheques. Some are calling these cheques bribe money, as they’re arriving just ahead of a possible early election—couldn’t be more coincidental.", "This government has already made sweeping billion-dollar deals to help liquor up Ontarians—bribes and booze. Well, we the people have some other priorities, and we are eager to see the fall economic statement address them.", "Properly fund health care. Too many people in our community do not have access to a family doctor. They end up in the ER—well, that’s if their ER is open.", "Invest in real, affordable housing, including protections for tenants like rent control in all buildings, eliminating abuse of above-guideline rent increases, and a complete scrap and replacement of Tarion in order to support new homeowners, including some victims of fraud—buying homes that have never been built.", "Actually tackle gridlock. Finish and open our Eglinton Crosstown LRT, one of this government’s biggest and most expensive failures to date.", "We need investments in the Ontario Arts Council, which currently has a starving artist budget, despite pleas from artists and cultural workers across Ontario.", "This government can fix our schools, address the repair backlog and invest in more education workers and mental health supports for students, because I’d like to think that for this government, kids trump bribes and booze." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "I’ll ask the member to withdraw her final comments." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jill Andrew", "text": [ "Withdraw." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "1020" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Jess Dixon", "text": [ "On October 19, I held my second annual fall festival, which is the one community event that I do. My main goal there is to provide a day that, for families and children, is really, really worth coming out to. We rent out beautiful Steckle Heritage Farm in Kitchener South–Hespeler, have pumpkins and food trucks and face painting. I do my best to make it something that’s really worth going to. I had a huge amount of help. We had wonderful food trucks. We had Fo’Cheezy, BeaverTails and Leen’s Shop. We also had some amazing face painters, with Bre and Robin—and some help from my friends at Xtreme Motors, Dave and Adnan, for moving 200 pumpkins.", "I also want to shout out a lot of my wonderful volunteers, which include my parents, as well as Caitlyn, Michael, Gabe, Marie, Ron, Megan and Corey.", "But the people I really want to shout out are my constituency office staff: my office manager, Bonita, and Anna, Gerry and Caitlyn. It was an organizational challenge pulling this together, but what stuck out to me as I walked around the farm was the number of residents who came up to me and told me a story about how my office staff and my caseworkers had fixed something for them; how they had been the only people to listen and care when they were struggling with something. It really stuck out to me just how incredible my office workers are. I know we all have them, but I’m particularly shouting out mine today.", "Bonita, Gerry, Caitlyn, Anna, thank you so much. I would not be able to do my job without you." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong", "text": [ "I rise today to speak on behalf of the workers of Ontario, who are the backbone of our province. And yet, despite all they do for us, they continue to face challenges. This government pretends to work for workers, but recent events tell a different story.", "Look at CUPE Local 2361 at the University of Western Ontario. They stood strong for 330 members in their fight for fair wages, respect and improved work conditions. But in their fight for better conditions and wage parity with similar other unionized positions, what did they encounter? They faced the deployment of scab labour, an unacceptable practice that undermines the bargaining process, threatens fair wages and diminishes workplace safety.", "I’m glad that CUPE Local 2361 could ratify an agreement with their employer, but I can’t help but be concerned about the next group and whether they can exercise their rights to free and fair collective bargaining.", "Ontario needs strong, immediate scab labour protection. This government needs to pass the bill that the NDP proposed—Bill 90, the Anti-Scab Labour Act—because, when it’s passed, there will be Ontario legislation that will make it illegal for employers to hire scabs during strikes and lockouts.", "We believe in fair wages, safe workplaces and meaningful protections.", "To CUPE Local 2361 and all Ontario workers, we see you and we stand with you.", "It’s time for Ontario to stand up for workers and deliver the protections they need now more than ever. So I ask this government to pass the NDP’s Bill 90, the Anti-Scab Labour Act, today—now." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Ric Bresee", "text": [ "As we approach Remembrance Day, I want to take a moment to recognize the many meaningful services that are held across Hastings–Lennox and Addington. Each year, these ceremonies allow us to honour and remember those who have sacrificed for our freedom.", "While I would love to attend all of these services, I do want to highlight one in particular today: the Remembrance Day service at the Wilton cenotaph, organized primarily by Lion Mike Shabinsky of the Odessa and District Lions Club. For 40 years, Mike has dedicated his time to this important event, in collaboration with the military. His commitment to ensuring that we remember and reflect on the sacrifices made by our veterans is truly commendable. This Remembrance Day service typically attracts around 200 attendees, including military personnel, veterans, schoolchildren, wreath-layers and representatives from the police, EMS and first responders.", "The Odessa Lions Club accomplishes so much each year, from supporting local hospitals and public schools, to funding and building parks and playgrounds and preparing food baskets for families in need. Their work on Remembrance Day also has an incredible impact on our community.", "I say thank you to Mike for his dedication and his leadership. He truly embodies the spirit of service that the Lions Club stands for, and his impact on the community will be felt for generations." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "I rise on behalf of the board, staff, volunteers and clients of Community Living Guelph Wellington.", "I participated in a meet-and-greet with CLGW on the weekend, which the Speaker attended, representing the Wellington part of GW. The stories I heard from front-line staff, parents and participants were heartbreaking. The chronic underfunding of programs for people with developmental disabilities is leading to service cuts and the selling off of housing assets. People are desperate for help. CLGW’s treasurer pointed out that over the last 30 years, the organization has received a 7% funding increase when inflation was 60%. They are covering 2024 costs with 1994 dollars and are experiencing a funding deficit of $3 million.", "Speaker, one parent whose adult son has been on the waiting list for housing for over a decade asked me, in tears, if she had to commit suicide for her son to move up the housing list.", "The Premier said that if you can’t work, he will make sure you are cared for. Many people with developmental disabilities cannot find employment and require 24/7 care. They are not being properly cared for when services, supportive housing and programs are being cut.", "I believe we are a more caring province than this, and I am eager and willing to work across party lines to provide the care these families deserve." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Robert Bailey", "text": [ "It’s a privilege to rise in the Legislature today.", "Last week, I was honoured to participate in the 40th anniversary celebration of Sarnia-Lambton Rebound, an award-winning organization in Lambton county that focuses on the well-being of young people and their families. Since its founding in 1984, Sarnia-Lambton Rebound has successfully served over 40,000 young people from across Sarnia–Lambton.", "Started by local residents Barry Symington, Dee Cox and Terry Fitzgerald, Rebound’s original focus was on bringing young people in the community together to learn positive social skills that would assist them in dealing with the transition from childhood to adulthood and the challenging years in between.", "In addition to positive social skills, today, youth aged eight to 24 can access programming at Rebound that supports challenges with mental health, stigma, identity, isolation, bullying, and pressures from social media. In addition, youth are able to participate in skill-building workshops and youth-focused community events, like the Youth Makers Expo, the Red Carpet Ready event, the Act II Theatre Program, the Rebound Rocks tour, and much more. In total, 2,491 local youth accessed over 20 programs at Rebound last year.", "Mr. Speaker, Rebound has been an invaluable resource for youth and families in Sarnia–Lambton for the last four decades.", "I want to congratulate executive director Michelle Holbrook and all the staff, volunteers and supporters of Rebound on this momentous anniversary. On behalf of the government of Ontario, I wish them continued success in everything they do." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Andrew Dowie", "text": [ "One week ago, the Hospice of Windsor and Essex County revealed some incredible news: The 22nd annual Hospice Face to Face campaign raised, this year, just over $110,000—a new record. This brings the total campaign fundraising to more than $1.8 million for the hospice. As the executive director of the hospice, Katharen Bortolin, so aptly put it, “Our community always shows up and we are always so grateful.”", "The Face to Face fundraiser supports the Fairley Family Transportation Program and supports rides for hospice patients and families across the community. Many of these are delivered through the GENIE, the Granting Exceptional N’Impactful Experiences, program, a unique partnership between the hospice and Essex-Windsor EMS that allows clients to travel in a retrofitted ambulance.", "Equally touching this year was its dedication to the memory of Dr. Jamie Henderson, the honourary co-chair of the Face to Face campaign for many years. Dr. Henderson personified the compassion, kindness and gratitude for which our hospice is known, and helped me greatly in crafting a tribute to his good friend and our riding’s former MPP Michael Ray.", "1030", "To John Fairley and the entire Fairley family: Thank you for your passion and dedication to keeping our community an incredible place.", "And to Katharen and all the staff at the hospice: Your service to our loved ones is beloved and appreciated." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos", "text": [ "It is my distinct pleasure today to introduce some exceptional young people from my community.", "In 2021, Ethan and Matthew McQueen started Kids Helping Kids Sleep Out to bring attention to homeless and trafficked youth. This year, with their friends, they raised $107,000 to support Covenant House.", "Please welcome Matthew McQueen, Ethan McQueen, Jack Riley, Brandon Wayland, Roman Coviello, Henry Yang, Cole Thomson, Arjun Chahal, Jude Lefebvre, Logan Wolfe, Owen Tochor, Jacob Schor, and Adrian Mesman.", "As well, I’d like to recognize and introduce my co-op student, Maxwell Zanerips, from King’s Christian Collegiate." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Bhutila Karpoche", "text": [ "It is my pleasure to welcome the Kosovar Albanian Canadian youth group here at Queen’s Park for the first time: Yllka Bojku, Luka Lamaj, Aryjola Zogu, Aldo Zemblaku, Megan Keli, Bardha Cunaj, Gurra Efendija, Orges Zejna, Ina Shehi, Alesja Cani, Alesio Vrapi, Jurgena Therca, Mario Cani, Valentin Cela, Aulona Tofaj, Alma Stafa, and Ledor Babatinca." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Laura Smith", "text": [ "It is my very great honour to welcome Idit Shamir, consul general of Israel in Toronto; Ms. Iris Weinstein Haggai, daughter of Judih Weinstein Haggai, Canadian victim of October 7; Gadi Haggai; the Honourable Irwin Cotler, former Minister of Justice of Canada; Adina Isenberg; and Yair Castel, consul general of Israel in Toronto and Western Canada.", "We ask that all people, if possible, please join us at the commemorative event for the Canadian victims of October 7 at Queen’s Park, in rooms 228 and 230, following today’s morning session." ] }, { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "I would like to welcome all of the co-op housing federation who are with us in the Legislature today for their lobby day; in particular, Golden Horseshoe co-op housing. Today I was able to visit with Sarah Burnett, Monica Brodeur, Angie Armstrong, Kathy Dimassi, Willy Noiles, and Doug Sider.", "Thanks so much for all you do for co-op housing, and welcome, everyone, to Queen’s Park today." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "I, too, want to welcome all members of the Canadian co-op housing federation who are at Queen’s Park today. I especially want to shout out to the folks the MPP for Kitchener Centre and I met with this morning: Elana Harte, Shelley Watts, Carine Nind, and Natasha Verwey. Thank you for your advocacy for housing in Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Lecce", "text": [ "I want to welcome the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council, who joined us this morning.", "Every year, 247,000 Canadians will be diagnosed with cancer. We honour the life-saving work that isotypes and nuclear science is providing in cancer treatment.", "Please welcome them here at Queen’s Park." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "I’m so pleased to be able to rise on behalf of the official opposition here and welcome to the Legislature Mr. Mark Golding, Jamaica’s Leader of the Opposition, along with a significant entourage. My colleagues will welcome others, but I did want to particularly mention Mr. Golding’s entourage who are here from Jamaica: Sergeant Marc Anderson, Ms. Ferguson, Mr. Christopher Henry, and Mr. Andre Hylton.", "It’s very nice to have you here. We are honoured by your presence." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "It’s a pleasure to introduce our director of communications, Rebecca Bozzato, and her father, Richard, who is here today to watch question period for the very first time.", "It’s Rebecca’s last week in our office, and we’d like to thank her for everything that she has done.", "Welcome to Queen’s Park, Richard." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jill Andrew", "text": [ "I would also like to welcome Mr. Mark Golding, Jamaica’s leader of the official opposition and president of the People’s National Party.", "It gives me great honour to welcome back to the Legislature community leaders Dr. Laura Mae Lindo, former MPP for Kitchener Centre—they’re still coming in—Clayton Greaves, Dr. Simon Black, H.E. Dr. Macaulay Kalu, Dr. Barbara Stewart, Dr. Carolyn Benjamin, and H.E. Sandra Bowen. Welcome to your House.", "And I’ll give a big shout-out to Masani Montague for Rastafest, who does incredible work in Toronto–St. Paul’s, Toronto Centre and all around Toronto celebrating Jamaican and Rastafarian culture." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "If there are no objections, I would like to continue with the introduction of visitors." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Aislinn Clancy", "text": [ "I also want to welcome Dr. Laura Mae Lindo to the House. She has been a great mentor, as I step into the riding and her shoes. She continues to be an amazing local champion for our community.", "Thank you, and welcome back." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Billy Pang", "text": [ "It is a great honour to welcome my constituents from Markham–Unionville to Queen’s Park today.", "First, a warm welcome to Bin Chang and Chris Lee, the proud parents of today’s page captain, Sophie Lee. Thank you both for joining us and supporting Sophie in her important role here.", "I’d also like to recognize Allen Song, CEO of Global Education Academy, along with their teachers and students. Global Education Academy recently celebrated its 25th anniversary, a remarkable milestone. Welcome to Queen’s Park, and I look forward to meeting all of you today." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Peggy Sattler", "text": [ "I’m very pleased to welcome Denise McGahan from the Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada, who is here today along with April Ager-White and Diana Yoon. I’m looking forward to our meeting later this afternoon. Welcome to Queen’s Park." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Andrew Dowie", "text": [ "I’d like to welcome two incredible guests. Evan Cameron, my former OLIP intern, is here today with the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council. And the great mayor of the city of Windsor, Drew Dilkens, is here at Queen’s Park today." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Lise Vaugeois", "text": [ "I have two people I would like to welcome—first, Liane Boyer, the mother of Lily McLean, our wonderful page from Thunder Bay.", "I’m looking forward to meeting with you and having lunch later.", "I’d also like to welcome Willy Noiles, who wears many hats and is also a representative of the Ontario Network of Injured Workers Groups.", "I’m glad to see you, Willy." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "I’d like to add my voice to the chorus of welcomes, to the very special delegation that has brought Mr. Mark Golding and his party to the Legislature of Ontario. This was done through the hard work of the Friends of Jamaica committee.", "I want to recognize Sharon Abrahams, Norma Telfer, Angelina Williams, Michelle Meghie, as well as local media who has accompanied them—their work is also critical in making sure that the announcements and the voices of Jamaica reach the local community here in Ontario.", "I want to welcome Anthony Joseph from Caribbean Camera, Natasha Von Castle, and our dear friend Masani Montague from Rastafest and Studio M.", "1040" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Terence Kernaghan", "text": [ "It gives me great pleasure to welcome the Canadian Bankers Association, including Anthony Ostler, Angelina Mason, Andrew Ross, Dan Ouimet, Nick Colosimo, Monika Farias, Alanna Sokic, Gary Clement, Alex Phillips, Virginia Clarke, and Thi Tran. I’m very much looking forward to the anti-scam alliance round table, and I know you’ll be watching the fall economic statement carefully." ] }, { "speaker": "Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens", "text": [ "I’d be remiss if I didn’t address Willy Noiles. He’s part of my riding association.", "Thank you for all the work you do.", "And thank you to the Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada for being here this morning." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "I, too, am very pleased to welcome a special guest, a former member of this Legislature, in the west public gallery, who served as the member for Kitchener Centre in the 42nd and 43rd Parliaments: Laura Mae Lindo.", "Welcome back. It’s great to see you." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "This question is for the Premier.", "People in Ontario are working harder than ever and paying more than ever for rent, for mortgages, for groceries, for heat and hydro. While they try to make every single dollar stretch, the least they can expect is a government that’s going to put every dollar to work for them, building homes, hiring doctors and fixing schools. But for the six years that this Conservative government has been in power, people have watched their tax dollars go to insider schemes and big corporations instead of those basics.", "So my question is, why should any hard-working Ontarian believe that today’s economic statement is going to make their lives better when this Premier has only ever put his insiders first?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, I find it so ironic, coming from the opposition that voted against every tax cut that we’ve done.", "As a matter of fact, we’re the only government in recent memory that has never raised a tax. We reduced the tax. We reduced the tax when it comes to vehicle registration stickers. We reduced the tax on the 412 and 418—we got rid of the tolls. And the One Fare is saving people $1,600 a year, travelling back and forth. We reduced the gas tax by 10.7 cents, saving families up to $380, on average, every single year.", "We’re finally putting back into people’s pockets, rather than the government’s.", "Every single person is going to get a $200 rebate cheque so that they can stimulate the economy. They can go out and maybe buy their kids a pair of sneakers; go out for dinner." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "You’ve cut services. You’ve introduced user fees.", "Life is harder and more expensive for Ontarians than it has ever been today in the province.", "People are stuck—they’re stuck waiting for a doctor, waiting for a home they can afford, waiting for someone in power to do something for them.", "Today’s economic statement could take steps to expand truly affordable housing, to put more doctors in our communities, to get lead pipes out of our kids’ schools. Instead, people are going to see billions—billions—of their tax dollars go to private spa companies and private health companies and anyone else with a connection to this Conservative Party.", "Why do the Premier’s insiders get billions while working people get a one-off cheque and a pat on the head?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "The Premier.", "1050" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "Speaker, let’s just review the past week.", "There are so many families who want to have a child and they can’t. We’ve put a massive tax credit in for IVF. That’s going to help over 20,000 families.", "Mr. Speaker, we announced Learn and Stay for medical students—if they stay in the area for five years, we pay for their medical school.", "We got rid of the 20% of foreign students coming in, taking our kids’ medical seats. Now it’s going to be 100% Canadian, 95% Ontario—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Opposition, come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "Then we announced we’re going to end congestion. We’re getting rid of the bike lanes in Toronto and across Ontario because only one—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The House will come to order.", "The final supplementary." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "The truth is, today, that life under this government, after six long years, is harder, is more expensive than it has ever been before, and Ontarians know that.", "They know what this $200 cheque is. They know it’s a bid to win them over before an election, and they’re not going to fall for it. They also know what this cheque is not—it is not a solution to the affordability crisis; it’s not going to build the affordable homes people need, and it sure won’t get them a family doctor. It’s not going to leave them in a better place next month.", "Speaker, will this fall economic statement give Ontarians what they paid for, or will they get more headaches instead of homes, delays instead of doctors, and schemes instead of schools?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "Premier." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, let’s reverse: Six years ago when their party, the NDP, and the Liberals, chased 300,000 jobs out of this province, they were leaving in droves—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Independent members, come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "—talk about life being more affordable. There are over 860,000—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Government side come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "Let me repeat that: 860,000 people are collecting a bigger paycheque because they have a better job under our administration.", "We’re going to continue looking at ways to put money back into people’s pockets.", "The NDP and the Liberals believe in one thing: tax, tax, tax. Leave the province. Take your business down south.", "We take a different approach. We have seen over $70 billion of investment come to Ontario. We’re an economic powerhouse around the world now, not just in Canada. We created 43,000 jobs last month. And 95% of all the jobs in Canada last month were created here—165,000 this year alone—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Hamilton Mountain will come to order. The member for Ottawa South will come to order. The Minister of Transportation will come to order.", "The next question." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "This is the same government that drove health care workers by the thousands out of this province because they tried to freeze their pay just when we needed them more than ever. So that’s a bit rich.", "People deserve a government that works just as hard as they do—one that puts their tax dollars to work making their life easier, not more difficult. But after six long years of this Premier and his costly schemes and all his scandals, people are not getting what they paid for.", "Just look at health care: Under the Conservatives, fewer people have a doctor. Hallway medicine is worse than it has ever been—even under the Liberals, my goodness. And there’s a shortage of medical supplies for people who are relying on home care. It has been over a month—how many people are still facing these shortages today?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "Premier." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, let’s talk about health care.", "When we walked in, hallway health care—a bankrupt system in the health care system.", "We have spent $33 billion more, total $85 billion: 80,000—let me repeat that, 80,000—new nurses, 12,500 new doctors, 3,500 new acute-care beds, and we’re adding another 3,000 because we’re building 50 new hospitals or additions to hospitals with $50 billion. That’s what we’re doing.", "1050", "We brought Dr. Philpott on side to make sure that not only are we leading the country with a connection of Ontario citizens to family physicians—we don’t think that’s good enough, because we only have 88%; we’re going to fill that 12% gap. We’re putting money towards health care like it has never been before.", "Just call the CEOs of any hospital in Ontario and ask them, “Are you getting more support under this government or under the NDP”—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Premier will take his seat.", "The member for Ottawa Centre will come to order. The member for Ottawa South will come to order. The Minister of Transportation will come to order.", "Supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "Well, the proof is in the pudding, right? Under the Liberals, a thousand people a day were being treated in hallways in our hospitals. Today, that number is doubled under this government—great job.", "They had one job to do: get medical supplies to vulnerable home care patients—just one little thing they had to do. They couldn’t get it done.", "Providing health care is a basic function of a provincial government. It is the right of every single Ontarian. But to this Premier, health care is just another opportunity for his insiders to make a buck—that’s the truth—while everybody else gets left to fend for themselves, risking infection, injury, worse. They’re left trying to source essential medical supplies on Amazon, for goodness’ sake.", "So my question is, are these patients supposed to wait for their $200 cheque to buy their own medical supplies, or is this Premier going to fix the mess?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "Premier." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Doug Ford", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, is the Leader of the Opposition calling the 12,500 doctors and the 80,000 nurses we registered “insiders”? Because they’re the people coming on board—or the 30,000 students, or the $546 million that we’re connecting over 600,000 people to primary care.", "Mr. Speaker, the number one priority is always health care, and right beside it is the economy and making sure we have the proper infrastructure, which we’re doing. We’re building the 413. We’re building the Bradford Bypass. We’re building the 401 east. We’re putting money into hospitals, putting money into schools—over $16 billion we’ve invested in the budget in schools alone.", "Mr. Speaker, we’re rebuilding Ontario from the disaster that we ended up getting when we landed in 2018. I call it the bankrupt province—it’s no longer bankrupt. People around the world are—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "The member for Sudbury will come to order. The Minister of Red Tape Reduction will come to order.", "Final supplementary." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Marit Stiles", "text": [ "Well, Speaker, I’m not sure that anyone who’s going without a pain pump or diabetes equipment is going to take comfort in that response from their Premier. As a first priority, people want the supplies they need to keep themselves and their family healthy. Then, they want answers to how this was allowed to happen.", "We know that Bayshore health’s lobbyist just happens to be the president of the PC Party of Ontario. So I want to know from this Premier—maybe that’s why he’s not rushing to fix this mess. Is that why that company got this sweetheart, insider deal with Ontario Health atHome? And shouldn’t that contract require them to actually deliver the supplies?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order. Order. The members will please take their seats. Order.", "The response, the Deputy Premier and Minister of Health." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "The members opposite can throw accusations. We’ll get things done.", "As soon as we heard that there were distribution issues, we understood that we had to assist, and we immediately started working with Ontario Health atHome. We have special assistance teams with this vendor to make sure that people get the critical medical supplies and medications they need. We know it is unacceptable for people who are living at home and needing these supplies to have any delays.", "In addition, we have ensured that any individual who went out and purchased necessary supplies can get those supplies reimbursed. Over 80% of those cheques are already being distributed. We know that we had to take action to ensure that people get the services they need.", "But I have to look at the budget increase that we’ve had in home care in the province of Ontario—last year alone, a 10% increase in people accessing home care. We are—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "The next question." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Catherine Fife", "text": [ "My question is for the Premier.", "People across this province are struggling and they are hurting. Their rents are higher. They can’t find a family doctor. Kids in our schools are learning in classrooms with leaky roofs, with garbage pails catching the water. Ontario has become a have-not province.", "Today’s fall economic statement gives this government an opportunity to right those wrongs and course-correct in a major way.", "To the Premier: Will today’s fall economic statement show a government that is willing to invest in the promise of this province—because this province could be such an amazing place for everybody, not just for the insiders—or should we expect more stale ideas, beer promises and bribes from this government?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The House will come to order. I think I can handle this. I appreciate the interventions of the members, but I think I can handle it.", "I’m going to ask the member to withdraw her unparliamentary comment." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Catherine Fife", "text": [ "Withdraw." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "To reply, the Minister of Finance." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Just take a look at what we’re doing in this province. We’re rebuilding the economy, we’re strengthening our health care, we’re tackling gridlock, we’re building infrastructure for our growing communities, and, yes, we are balancing the budget.", "The Premier got up earlier and talked about how we’re building this economy. Mr. Speaker, if you look, since 2018, the economy has grown by over $300 billion, to $1.1 trillion. That’s good for workers. That’s good for families. That’s good for businesses. They’re able to put food on the table. They’re able to feel good about themselves. They’re growing this province. And we’re doing it together, under the leadership of this Premier, with all my caucus colleagues.", "I’m looking forward to saying more this afternoon, in the fall economic statement." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Catherine Fife", "text": [ "Balancing a budget on the backs of the most vulnerable in the province of Ontario is nothing to brag about.", "Under this government, taxpayers are not getting what they paid for. The government is failing at the very basics: education, health care, affordability, compassion.", "Our public services are facing a shortfall of $13.1 billion over the next three years.", "This government is consumed with their schemes, their scandals, their fantasy tunnels. They are completely disconnected from the problems of everyday people in this province.", "Election cheques won’t make up for the fact that the cost to put a roof over your head has skyrocketed under this Premier.", "To the Premier: Will today’s balance sheet show taxpayers how much of their money is allocated to these pandering schemes at the expense of public services like health care?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "There you have it, Mr. Speaker: They’re against putting taxpayer money back in their pockets. They’re against families. They’re against businesses. They’re against building this economy. But it’s no surprise; there isn’t a tax that they haven’t loved, a fee that they haven’t wanted to increase.", "We cut the gas tax again, helping families and businesses right across the province.", "Their party just up the road—they support an increase to the carbon tax. They’re taking money out of businesses’ pockets. They’re taking money out of people’s pockets. That’s their solution.", "I think people are tired of the solutions coming from that opposition. They’re supporting this party and our plan to build this province, support workers and support families.", "1100" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Ernie Hardeman", "text": [ "My question is to the Minister of Economic Development, Job Creation and Trade.", "Good-paying jobs that were lost under the Liberals are being brought back to the province. The Liberals turned their backs on southwestern Ontario, and hard-working families had to pay the price. Under their watch, factories closed, jobs were lost, and our manufacturing capacity was hollowed out. But now our government has created the conditions for job growth in every region of the province.", "Over the summer, I joined the minister to welcome important manufacturing investments that will benefit the families in my riding and across the region.", "Can the minister please share with this House some of the investments that have been made in Oxford?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "Yes, I can share what has happened in Oxford. They are a manufacturing powerhouse. Some $93 million in new manufacturing has landed in Oxford. Vuteq Canada, automotive parts manufacturer—$40-million investment, 145 new jobs. Trans-Mit Steel—$23-million investment, 17 new jobs. Armtec, a great company in Tillsonburg—$27 million to build a brand new facility. MTO Metal Products, a manufacturer of custom metal parts—$2.5-million investment, 16 new jobs.", "Speaker, these are all investments that are creating great-paying jobs for the hard-working families of Oxford. They’re all here because we’ve lowered the cost of business by $8 billion annually. And these jobs are part of the 860,000 new jobs we’ve created in Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary. The member for Mississauga–Malton." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Deepak Anand", "text": [ "Speaker, in 2023, Ontario created more manufacturing jobs than all 50 US states combined. Our manufacturing sector that was crushed under the Liberals is thriving again.", "It is a contrasting tale of two leaderships. The Liberals were content with watching goods that were once made in Ontario moving out. In constrast, our government, under the leadership of Premier Ford, has created the conditions to restore Ontario’s manufacturing might.", "To all the job creators: If you’re looking for a place to invest, Ontario is that place.", "Over the summer, I joined the minister to welcome an important investment in Mississauga.", "It’s such refreshing news that the good-paying jobs are being created right here in the province of Ontario.", "Can the minister please provide this Legislature an update on any other investments and expansions that are happening right here in the province of Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "We are seeing job-creating investments in every single part of our province.", "Speaker, we were in Mississauga–Malton with the member as we cut the ribbon at First Choice Beverage. They are a Canadian producer of juice and dairy alternative products. They’re investing $50 million to boost their manufacturing capacity at their Mississauga facility, creating 20 new, good-paying jobs along the way.", "With the member from Kitchener–Conestoga, we turned the sod at Golden Windows. This is a $30-million investment. They’re an Ontario-based manufacturer of windows and doors. They’re building a 240,000-square-foot facility in Kitchener, adding 50 new, good-paying jobs.", "Speaker, we’ve supported 135 projects, leveraged $1.9 billion in new investment, and helped create 3,500 new jobs." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Ma question est pour la ministre de la Santé.", "Palliative care physicians from all over the province are still reaching out to me about the crisis in home care medical supplies. The minister’s decision to hand off the last mile of medical supplies delivery to Bayshore is leaving palliative care patients in pain. It is also hurting small businesses, who for years have been handling medical supplies delivery to their communities, to their neighbours, and they all lost their contracts. This decision is bad for patients. It is bad for small businesses.", "Speaker, how could this minister make a worse decision for home care patients and small businesses?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "While the member opposite and her party were voting down every single investment that we were making in home care in the province of Ontario—they were voting against it. We have increased home care capacity in the province of Ontario.", "Yes, absolutely, it’s unacceptable that people cannot get their medical supplies and necessary medications on time. But we have acted quickly to ensure that Ontario Health atHome—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Opposition, come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "—embeds themselves into that vendor to make sure that they get the necessary supplies, prioritizing palliative care patients, prioritizing people who need those necessary pieces of equipment. And we are seeing improvements. But I am not going to apologize for something that the vendor has done. We need to make sure that today, right now, it is focused on the patient and making sure that they get those supplies. We’ll continue to do that work.", "And I hope that the next time we expand home care in the province of Ontario, your party—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order. The member for St. Catharines, come to order. The member for Windsor West, come to order.", "The member for Nickel Belt, supplementary." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "I’m glad the minister recognizes that this crisis in home care is her responsibility.", "There are other crises in health care.", "A year ago, Catherine from Cornwall had her prescription renewed for a full year because her doctor was retiring and he knew full well that a walk-in clinic would not renew it. She has spent the last 11 months trying to find a doctor with no success. Ask the MPP for Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry; he knows all about it.", "My constituent Yvon died of cardiac arrest last spring at the age of 60, two years after retirement. Yvon’s doctor retired in 2020. His wife, Stasha, is absolutely certain that he would still be there if he had had access to a family doctor.", "Will the minister admit today that she has also created the crisis in primary care?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "In the 2023 budget, we invested a billion dollars in home care—you voted against. In the 2024 budget, we invested $2 billion in home care, which you voted against. Our additional investments mean that over 700,000 people are now accessing home care in the province of Ontario who were unable to prior.", "You will hear in today’s financial economic statement an investment and expansion of a Learn and Stay program that has been incredibly successful for nurses, for our northern Ontario paramedics, for lab techs. We’re now expanding that program to physicians who choose to study family medicine in the province of Ontario.", "The investments that we are making, whether it is in the short term, the long term or in the medium term, mean that, finally, we have a government and a Premier who is investing the necessary money to ensure that our home care and our health care is there for the people who need it across Ontario." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. David Smith", "text": [ "My question is to the Minister of Transportation.", "Costs keep rising in Ontario in terms of groceries, gas—everything is more expensive, and the Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax is making it worse.", "Our government has not raised taxes, and we are working to keep costs down for families.", "The previous Liberal government raised taxes year after year after year. They raised taxes on everything.", "Unlike the Liberals and the NDP, our government believes that we should work to make life easier for the people of Ontario.", "Can the minister please share what our government is doing to help put money back in people’s pockets?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Hastings–Lennox and Addington, parliamentary assistant." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ric Bresee", "text": [ "Thank you to the member for that question.", "Our government is focused on making life easier for the people of Ontario. Whether it’s building new transit and highways to make it easier to get around or taking steps to save people money, we are focused on ensuring that Ontario remains one of the best places to live, work and raise a family.", "1110", "The previous government’s record is clear. They introduced a provincial carbon tax. They raised fees on drivers’ licences. They raised fees on Drive Clean. And they raised the gas tax, making it more expensive to fill your tank.", "Our government has taken a different approach. We cut the provincial carbon tax. We froze drivers’ licence fees. We removed the fee on the Drive Clean program. And we have cut the gas tax by over 10 cents a litre.", "Speaker, our PC government, under the leadership of this Premier, will continue to put more money back in people’s pockets and save families money." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. David Smith", "text": [ "Thank you to the parliamentary assistant for his answer.", "Our government needs to make life easier for families and business in Ontario. But when families need help, Bonnie Crombie and the Liberals keep voting against saving people money. They are out of touch, elite and expensive. When they were in power, they ignored Ontarians.", "I know the Premier and our government are taking action to save people money.", "Can the parliamentary assistant share more about what our government is doing to make life more affordable for people in Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ric Bresee", "text": [ "Thank you again to my friend from Scarborough Centre.", "It’s disappointing that the Liberals and the NDP refuse to support common-sense solutions to make life more affordable. They voted against the One Fare program. They voted against removing double fares for transit riders between GO Transit and local transit agencies. The One Fare program saves the average commuter $1,600 per year. When she was mayor of Mississauga, Liberal leader Bonnie Crombie raised Mississauga transit fares for students, for adults and for seniors.", "Speaker, the difference couldn’t be more clear. We’re standing up to save families money. The NDP and the Liberals want to make life more expensive.", "My colleague is right; the Liberals and the NDP could not be more out of touch.", "We’re the only party fighting to keep costs down for the people of Ontario." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Chandra Pasma", "text": [ "While our kids are in schools with floods, crumbling ceilings and lead in the drinking water, this government is forcing school boards to print and post signs at schools promoting the government. They’re even making school boards pay for the signs with funds that could be going to fix the schools or, you know, getting the lead out of the drinking water.", "How can the Minister of Education justify this scenario to taxpayers, who expect their money to go to safe and healthy schools for our kids, rather than to self-promotion by a government in trouble?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "To reply, the member for Markham–Unionville and parliamentary assistant." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Billy Pang", "text": [ "I thank the member for the question.", "My ministry consistently allocates almost $1.4 billion each year to school boards to renew and improve their school facilities. These investments are making a difference on the ground in schools—such as HVAC improvements, roof repairs, and renewal of building electrical and plumbing systems.", "Unfortunately, while we were making the necessary improvements in schools, boards were not even spending all the money we were giving them, leading to hundreds of millions of dollars being carried forward each year. This practice was not a good use of our tax dollars, and as a result, we had to introduce time limits for spending school renewal allocations.", "The members of the opposition should be thanking us for ensuring that taxpayer money is now being used efficiently rather than defending fiscal waste—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Opposition, come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Billy Pang", "text": [ "We are ensuring that our public dollars are being used efficiently, while also ensuring that students can continue to learn in a safe and secure setting." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Chandra Pasma", "text": [ "This isn’t the first time we’ve seen such incredible disrespect from this government. Last year, the Auditor General criticized the Minister of Education for spending over $4 million in taxpayer dollars on partisan ads. According to the Auditor General, these ads put forward claims that lacked context or evidence. The government spent this money while kids didn’t have mental health supports, education assistants, or even teachers.", "Why does this government constantly think they can use public money for self-promotion instead of where Ontario residents want to see it go—towards supporting our kids?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Amarjot Sandhu", "text": [ "My colleague has explained that it is not a new requirement to have Ontario Builds signs on capital projects like new schools and renovations. But what the member opposite failed to mention is that these are the same school boards that spent $38,000 on Blue Jays games. They wasted $145,000 on a lavish trip to Italy.", "The opposition party can play politics on the issue, but what we are focused on is building schools. We’re focused on building child care spaces.", "I want to thank the Minister of Education for announcing two new schools in my riding of Brampton West.", "We’re focused on making investments. We’re focused on building medical schools. We’re focused on building hospitals.", "Do you know what these blue signs mean? These blue signs mean we’re making investments." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "We hear countless stories from the 2.5 million Ontarians this government has left without a family doctor.", "Two constituents in Kingston and the Islands who served with the Canadian Forces were left with no family doctor when they finished their service. One is a teacher who was sent overseas for a two-year posting and, when they returned, couldn’t get re-rostered with their local clinic anymore. Another is a discharged CF member who has mental health complications, uses walk-in clinics, but struggles with having to explain their mental health history over and over again every time they see a new doctor.", "I ask this government, why is this okay?", "Will the minister make a way for people who have served with the military to have family doctors when they finish serving their country?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "The member opposite raises an important issue, and I’m happy to take that away and see what we can do. But I also have to ask him to look in the mirror.", "Look at your party’s history. You were a party that cut 50 medical seats, which now means that almost 350 physicians who could have been trained in the province of Ontario are not here.", "Do a compare and contrast. While you were cutting medical seats while you were in government—we have expanded. We’ve expanded medical seats in every single medical school in the province of Ontario—almost doubling them in the Northern Ontario School of Medicine. We have now announced, and next September we will have, a medical school in the city of Brampton.", "The contrast between what you did while your party was in government and what we have been able to do in six short years and will continue to do with the announcement now, and ensuring that Dr. Philpott is leading primary care expansion in the province, that’s getting—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you. Supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "This doesn’t have to be so partisan.", "I once attended a dinner to recruit a New York family doctor to Kingston. What might they have heard? Well, OHIP billing hasn’t paid for inflated costs. And then, this government lowballed doctors during the latest fee negotiations, making an offer the arbitrator called “completely unrealistic.” What else did they hear? Well, the system makes doctors spend hours phoning around their networks, begging specialists to take their patients, handling the deluge of faxes on meds checks or minor ailments, or tracking down a missing fax the hospital sent to the MPP’s home phone by mistake. This New York doctor might have been swayed by the 5,000 Ontario family doctors who walked away from family medicine.", "Why won’t this government just fix the system and get more family doctors for the 2.5 million who don’t have one?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Stop the clock.", "I’m sure that’s an interesting conversation under way between the member for Ottawa South and the Minister of Labour, Immigration, Training and Skills Development, but question period is still under way, and I’d ask them to wait until after question period is over, perhaps, to continue the conversation.", "Start the clock.", "The Minister of Health to reply." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "With the greatest of respect—the member opposite just admitted what hadn’t been done in the previous Liberal government.", "1120", "Yes, we are absolutely dealing with this. We have been seized with it since Premier Ford came into office. Expansion of medical schools; expansion of seats; expansion to ensure that our residency students who want to practise in Ontario, who want to have a seat in Ontario, will now have that as a result of this afternoon’s fall economic statement—we are absolutely getting this done.", "Frankly, if the two parties opposite had actually done their planning and work, we would not be in this position and we would not have to be rebuilding the way we’ve had to." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Logan Kanapathi", "text": [ "My question is for the Minister of Infrastructure.", "Across Ontario, we know there is a housing crisis. Communities are growing. Young people, families, and new Ontarians all need places to call home. But building homes is only part of the answer. We also need the right infrastructure to support those homes—roads, schools, and especially water systems—because without the proper water and waste water infrastructure, new housing cannot happen. It is one thing to approve housing, but it’s another one to ensure those houses have the infrastructure they need.", "Can the minister please update the Legislature on what our government is doing to ensure municipalities have the water systems in place to support new housing?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Brampton West and parliamentary assistant can reply for the government." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Amarjot Sandhu", "text": [ "Thank you to the member for the question.", "I’m very honoured to have the opportunity to rise in the Legislature this morning to speak about what our government is doing to accelerate housing starts, particularly with our Housing-Enabling Water Systems Fund.", "Our government was re-elected with an even larger mandate on the commitment that we would get housing and infrastructure built. Through the Housing-Enabling Water Systems Fund, we are doing just that. Our $970-million investment for water and waste water is paving the way for all municipalities all over the province—and we hear the good news every day.", "For those municipalities that haven’t applied yet, I have got good news for you: The second intake of applications is currently open; the deadline to apply is 4:59 p.m. on November 1, 2024. If your municipality wants to build, our government will stand side by side with them, get shovels in the ground and get it done." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Logan Kanapathi", "text": [ "Thank you to the parliamentary assistant for the response.", "In every part of our province, we see the need for more homes. We know that our communities are ready to grow, and we know that they need the right support to make it happen. Local leaders are telling us they are ready to build and people are eager to move in.", "But we know that building homes is only one part of the plan. Without the right funding for the essential infrastructure, they are limited in what they can do. Water and waste water systems are not just extras; they are necessities for any new home to get built. This funding can make all the difference, bringing jobs and homes to these communities.", "Would the parliamentary assistant please share how this funding is impacting local economies and helping municipalities keep housing costs low?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Amarjot Sandhu", "text": [ "Thank you to the member for that supplementary question.", "Minister Surma and Premier Ford had the privilege of spending their busy summer travelling across Ontario, seeing first-hand how this funding will positively benefit municipalities and Ontarians.", "Just this past Monday, Premier Ford announced $34.9 million in funding, which will help build over 3,300 homes in Greater Sudbury. We know these actions get results, and so does Mayor Lefebvre of Sudbury, who told our government, “This $35-million” investment “is a truly historic infrastructure investment in Greater Sudbury—the largest one-time funding commitment we have ever received from the province.”", "When Minister Surma was in Vaughan to announce $35 million which will support the construction of 20,000 homes, former Liberal leader and current Vaughan mayor Steven Del Duca said, “We are in the midst of a housing affordability crisis, and this is an all-hands-on-deck moment for all leaders. I look forward to continuing to work with the provincial government to build a bright future.”", "Speaker, what every municipality that received funding had in common was these municipalities want to build—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "The next question." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "My question is for the Premier.", "It has been over two weeks since Logan went missing from his home in Havelock-Belmont-Methuen—a vulnerable, autistic 18-year-old who has other needs, including ADHD and anxiety.", "Over a year and a half ago, I stood in this House and introduced a critical and vital private member’s bill: Bill 74, Missing Persons Amendment Act. Bill 74 is at the Standing Committee on Justice Policy, stalled with no action. It has been there since March.", "Premier, when are you going to bring back Bill 74, pass it, and help missing persons like Logan be located close to home?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The government House leader." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "Through you, Speaker, to the member: I understand private members’ bills can be a bit of a frustrating process.", "I had a question the other day from the member from Carleton, and I quoted a stat that, when I first came into the Legislature in 2010, I was told: that, since Confederation—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "If the member will allow me to answer her question—when I was first here, I was told by legislative research that, since Confederation, about 3% of private members’ bills actually make it into legislation.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "If the member will allow me to answer—I’ve had private members’ bills pass. I’ve been pretty lucky, because I made a decision that, rather than playing politics on the floor about standing committees, I’d actually roll up my sleeves, walk across the floor and talk to the minister involved and ask how we can work together. I was successful. I made some decisions.", "I say to the member, you can make those same decisions." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary?" ] }, { "speaker": "Miss Monique Taylor", "text": [ "I can’t control what happens on the government side.", "All I know is that the former government House leader promised a family that this would be passed, that this would become law, that this would save lives. Unfortunately, the new House leader does not see it that way. He would rather play politics.", "Thankfully, as of this morning, Logan has been found—16 days after he left his home. Many in the community where unaware that Logan was even missing. The OPP used every tool they had available; an alert was not one of them. Bill 74 would have brought another option, a localized and swift action to alert those who may have seen Logan within those two weeks. It would have been another tool in the tool box to ensure our most vulnerable people have those them around them looking out, on high alert.", "Premier, I’m thankful that Logan has been located. This could have happened sooner.", "When are you going to pass Bill 74 so all tools are available when vulnerable people go missing in our communities?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Members will please take their seats.", "The government House leader." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "Speaker, through you to the member: On behalf of the government, we’re so pleased that Logan has been found and is safe. We want to thank all of the first responders, everyone who worked on this. It’s a real testament to how the system works. I’m very pleased that Logan has been found.", "Again, I’ve said to the member, there are ways to work collaboratively on private members’ bills. I know the numbers are not in their favour. But I can say, for myself, my private member’s bill—I tabled it three times. I amended it three times. I sat with the minister. I sat with—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Hamilton Mountain, come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "I was able to have that collaboration. I hope that the member will take my advice.", "Again, on behalf of the government, we want to say to Logan and his family, we’re so pleased that the outcome is what it is. We want to thank the first responders for doing such a great job." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Andrea Hazell", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier.", "Today, the government will release their fall economic statement. This will be their sixth one since 2018—six, Mr. Speaker. Six statements—and what do they have to show for it? Well, 2,000 people a day are being treated in emergency waiting rooms, hallways and stairwells; ER wait times have increased by 48%; 11,000 people died waiting for surgery or diagnostic procedures; and 2.5 million Ontarians do not have a family doctor.", "In my riding, seniors tell me they are scared to get sick because they see the state of the ERs.", "1130", "So if this government has had five chances to show they care about health care, why should anybody believe them the sixth time around?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The Deputy Premier and Minister of Health." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "Thank you to the member opposite for allowing me to do a bit of a recap of what has been happening in the last six years—rebuilding a health care system that was, frankly, ignored under previous NDP and Liberal governments.", "As I’ve said previously, two new medical schools in Brampton, in Scarborough and York region—and in York region, they are going to actually practise and train family physicians’ focus.", "Every single medical school in the province of Ontario now has additional seats available for students who want to practise and train in the province of Ontario—expanding the number of residency seats available in the province of Ontario.", "The first year I was elected and appointed to the Ministry of Health—directing the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario to quickly assess, review and, ultimately, license internationally educated physicians." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Adil Shamji", "text": [ "And you didn’t act on their recommendations." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "I know the member opposite doesn’t want to hear this.", "The truth is, we are making investments that you and your party ignored for far too long.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Don Valley East will come to order.", "Supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Andrea Hazell", "text": [ "Well, Mr. Speaker, it’s back to the Premier: I understand what this government’s priorities are, based on the information I just received—and it’s basically even not the 32,000 residents in Etobicoke North who do not have a family doctor.", "Six statements—let me tell you what the government has to show for it. An $8.3-billion greenbelt giveaway; a criminal RCMP investigation; $1 billion just to get booze into corner stores a year earlier; negotiated one of the worst deals in Ontario’s history, spending $2 billion of taxpayers’ money to sell off Ontario Place to a foreign-owned spa—all of this while 1,200 ERs were closed in 2023; 200,000 people are waiting for tests; 11,000 deaths, waiting for addiction treatment.", "This is the state of health care in Ontario. Today, will he finally make health care a priority, or will he continue to focus on his friends instead of the people of his province?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Sylvia Jones", "text": [ "Oh, Speaker, I’m not done; facts matter. So, 50 capital build expansions, including in Scarborough Health Network, a community that has been ignored for far too long—we’re making that investment in the Scarborough Health Network. We’re making sure that students who want to practise and train as primary care practitioners, as clinicians, as nurses, are getting those opportunities in Scarborough.", "And then when I think of our February announcement—78 new or expanded primary care expansion teams across Ontario.", "We are getting it done because we are making the investments in our young people, in our students, in our capital projects, in our hospitals, in our community care and, yes, even in hospice—because we understand that health care is a system. When I had the opportunity to go and announce the first hospice in the province of Ontario and Canada that will, indeed, be on First Nations land—that’s getting it done." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "My question is for the Minister for Seniors and Accessibility. Seniors in my riding of Essex are looking for ways to stay active and involved in the community. They want to stay socially connected because they know that social isolation is enemy number one. They want to have access to programs and services that are specifically designed for seniors, and they want to have those programs close to their homes in Essex county.", "Can the Minister for Seniors and Accessibility please tell the House what our government is doing to help seniors stay active and socially connected?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Raymond Sung Joon Cho", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, I’d like to thank the member from Essex for that very important question and for working so hard for seniors in Essex.", "We just recently issued the quarterly funds of over $3.8 million to the 316 seniors active living centres across Ontario. That is why we are able to open two brand new centres in Essex this past year. This funding makes sure that our seniors in Essex and all over Ontario have programs and services that keep our seniors fit, active, healthy, socially connected, close to their homes and in their communities, and so they can avoid social isolation." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The supplementary question." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "I thank the minister for that answer. It’s exciting to know that the government of Ontario is providing programs and services to help people in my riding.", "Seniors need to know that the funds for those programs and services that we’re talking about are going to be there for them in their communities and close to their homes. I’m talking about communities like Amherstburg and Kingsville and Belle River. Those are places right in Essex county. Seniors in these communities are looking to the government to commit to the funding, not just today, but also in the future.", "Will the minister please tell us how much money those seniors active living centres will receive, and will that funding stay in place?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Raymond Sung Joon Cho", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, thanks to Premier Ford, I can assure the member that seniors active living centres will continue to receive the funding needed so that seniors receive the programs and services they deserve. This is why every seniors active living centre is now receiving up to $50,000 a year, up from $42,000 last year. This shows that we are not only committed to maintain the funding, but we have expanded funding for these important centres. These seniors centres are doing great things for our seniors.", "Thanks to our leadership, we are getting it done for seniors in Essex and all over Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The next question. The member for Thunder Bay–Atikokan." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Lise Vaugeois", "text": [ "Thanks. Interesting, though, because this week I received a letter from a constituent in the neighbouring riding of Thunder Bay–Atikokan asking me to lobby for the same heat pump rebates offered to Kenora and 16 other Ontario municipalities. The grants are $5,000 for above-ground and $10,000 for ground-source heat pumps.", "If people in Kenora, Barrie, Ottawa and Toronto are being offered these subsidies, what is stopping the province from offering the same heat pump subsidies to all communities in Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Minister of Energy and Electrification." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Lecce", "text": [ "I want to thank the member for the question.", "The member has accurately defined a problem that is solved in the Affordable Energy Act. I would encourage the members opposite to read the legislation that’s tabled in this House. You would think they would vote in favour of it, because what the act does is, it gives the IESO, the Independent Electricity System Operator, the capacity and the legal ability to provide efficiency programs to every region of Ontario—not just constrained to regions which currently represent 30% of the population.", "So if the member is urging the government to help all families access heat pumps or conservation initiatives or home renovations, then they will announce today support for the Affordable Energy Act." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Supplementary? The member for Thunder Bay–Superior North." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Lise Vaugeois", "text": [ "If this is accurate, hurray. I look forward to being able to tell the people of Marathon, who asked me—they would like to see their community switch to heat pumps as a way to reduce their carbon footprint and reduce costs.", "It is puzzling that there were 17 communities offered those rebates when so many other communities were not offered anything. I don’t know what’s so special about Kenora, for example. In communities on the north shore of Lake Superior and many other communities on Highway 11 and going as far north to Nakina, heating is provided by electric baseboards, oil, propane or wood, and they could all benefit enormously from a transition to heat pumps.", "So I would like to hear—let’s hear a yes. It sounds like it could be a yes. Will it be a yes? Will the government provide the same opportunities offered to Kenora to all other communities in Ontario?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The members will please take their seats.", "The Minister of Energy and Electrification." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Lecce", "text": [ "Mr. Speaker, the member asked rhetorically, “What’s so special about Kenora?” I would argue there are a lot of special things about northwestern Ontario. Every region of Ontario is worthy of conservation.", "The driver behind the Affordable Energy Act is to reduce the bills, after they increased by 300% under the former Liberals. I think the member and I would agree on the disastrous record that we cannot go back to.", "The difference, though, between the opposite New Democrats and Conservatives is, we’re standing up against the carbon tax, which exacerbates, which compounds the problem in northern Ontario as prices increase, because it’s expensive to use, yes, oil for home heating this winter.", "So if the objective is to lower bills, if the objective is to expand conservation to all regions, not just to 30%, then I urge the members to put money where their mouth is and vote for the Affordable Energy Act." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Ross Romano", "text": [ "My question is to the Minister of Northern Development.", "Communities in the north, like my own of Sault Ste. Marie, have some challenges. As we like to say, sometimes we have to work twice as hard to get half as far in the north—and, certainly, specifically in my community of the Soo. This is not an area that was treated so fondly in the past by the NDP-Liberal coalition, who once referred to places like Sault Ste. Marie as a “no man’s land,” or northern Ontario as “no man’s land.” I know we have some challenges. We recognize there are challenges.", "Perhaps the minister can tell this House what some of the steps are and some of the specific investments our government is making to help people in the north who face some of these very specific challenges and struggles in the area." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The parliamentary assistant and the member for Brantford–Brant." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "Thank you to the member for his question and his tireless advocacy for the north. It’s very much appreciated.", "Upon being elected in 2018, the Ministry of Northern Development went through a strategic redesign of the Northern Ontario Heritage Fund Corp. The new and improved and revamped NOHFC now serves more business owners, more communities and more Indigenous workers than ever before. Under the Liberals, about 1% of the NOHFC investments went to Indigenous businesses and communities. I’d like to announce that, thanks to our revamping, we are proud that last year, we had a business quarter where 20% of the investments went to Indigenous businesses and communities.", "The NOHFC fosters economic growth, job creation and workforce development throughout the north, benefiting communities of all sizes, both rural and urban, including Indigenous communities.", "Since June 2018, the NOHFC has invested more than $841 million in 6,894 projects in northern Ontario.", "We are going to continue making strategic investments across the north so that families can thrive and live their best lives." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "That concludes our business for this morning.", "This House stands in recess until 1 p.m.", "The House recessed from 1144 to 1300." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Charmaine A. Williams", "text": [ "I just wanted to welcome Victoria Eghomwanne. She is visiting from Brampton to watch the fall economic statement today—happy to have her here." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Deepak Anand", "text": [ "I’d like to take a moment to introduce my OLIP intern Ayesha Ali. Well, thanks to Minister Cho, the secret is out: Today is the fall economic statement and Ayesha’s birthday, so happy birthday, Ayesha." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.", "First reading agreed to." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Would the minister care to briefly explain his bill?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Speaker, I look forward to speaking to this bill during my ministerial statement." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.", "First reading agreed to." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "It’s always an honour to rise.", "I’ve developed a tradition—I think this is my eighth FES, fall economic statement—to acknowledge someone, and I’m going to acknowledge Peter Bethlenfalvy. Now, before you think I’m being a little immodest here, that’s my father’s cousin who will be visiting this weekend from Brussels, from Europe. He works for the International Organization for Migration and he’s had a long career with the European Union, so welcome to Canada, Peter Bethlenfalvy—and, of course, to my dad, who is watching right now.", "Mr. Speaker, on behalf of Premier Ford and our entire government, it is my honour today to present to you Ontario’s 2024 fall economic statement. As you are aware, the statement serves as an update on the government’s previous spring budget and, Mr. Speaker, the news is good. But just as importantly, this statement serves as an opportunity for our government to lead with real action for Ontarians.", "Despite the progress we have made as a government over the past six years, the province still is facing enormous challenges, from historic population growth and geopolitical uncertainty to the persistently high cost of living. But thanks to the efforts of Ontario workers and businesses, helped by real leadership from the government with a long-term plan, we can afford to enhance our plan to build so that we can meet these problems head-on, because, today, Mr. Speaker, we are in a position to do more. We are in a position to build more, and yes, we’re in a position to put more money back in the hard-working pockets of Ontario taxpayers.", "Here’s why, Mr. Speaker: Ontario’s finances are in better shape today than they ever have been in decades. Earlier this year, Ontario received a credit rating upgrade, reversing a trend of downgrades under the mismanagement of the previous Liberal government. We have slashed our deficits, and, in fact, this year we have received a credit rating upgrade, reversing a trend of rating downgrades. Those deficits that are slashed have allowed us to project a deficit this fiscal year of $6.6 billion, an improvement of $3.2 billion from the budget, followed by a $1.5-billion deficit, and then, Mr. Speaker, this government will balance the budget.", "Now, this lower deficit came thanks to a number of different factors, including higher revenues, lower borrowing and, of course, lower interest on debt and lower deficits. In fact, our interest on debt, relative to revenues, is currently at its lowest level since the 1980s, and our debt-to-GDP ratio, which is a measure of our fiscal health, remains at the best level in about a decade.", "This is very good news for Ontario taxpayers. It means that when the province needs to borrow, we can do it at a lower cost. In fact, Ontario now has the lowest borrowing costs of any province in Canada, saving taxpayers $1.2 billion that we are now able to reinvest back into the people of Ontario.", "Getting to this point is the result of strong fiscal management, and it was not easy, nor was it automatic. Now let’s dare to compare the Ontario of today to the Ontario we inherited. All you have to do—and I’m going to ask for a little audience participation—is to tell me whether this is good or bad.", "Let’s start with a simple one. Under the Liberals, 300,000 manufacturing jobs were lost in the province. Red tape held back investment, energy costs soared and fees and taxes on businesses were high. Tell me, is that good or bad?" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "Bad." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Now, let’s compare. Our government has saved business almost $8 billion and cut red tape for businesses. We’ve attracted $44 billion in auto and EV-related investments over the past four years that will help create over 14,000 jobs. How about that? Is that good or bad?" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "Good." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "You know, Mr. Speaker, the Liberals champion the carbon tax, which is increasing the cost of groceries and other goods across the province. Tell me, good or bad?", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Work with me here. Bad." ] }, { "speaker": "Interjection", "text": [ "Very bad." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Very bad, very bad.", "As for us, we’ve cut the gas tax by 5.7 cents a litre and 5.3 cents on fuel, and I’m proud to announce we’ll once again be seeking to extend this gas tax cut until June 2025." ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "That’s good." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "I agree with them. They said this is good. I agree.", "Or, Mr. Speaker, the tolls: The opposition support road tolls. They tolled Highways 412 and 418 in Durham. Good or bad?" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "Bad.", "1310" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Well, we eliminated the tolls on the 412 and 418, and we’ll be banning any new banning tolls on provincial highways, including the Gardiner and the DVP. Let me answer this one on behalf of the residents of Durham and all of Ontario: That is very good indeed.", "The previous government increased fees: aviation fuel fees, beer tax, wine tax, driver licence fees. They made life more expensive for everyone. Good or bad?" ] }, { "speaker": "Interjections", "text": [ "Bad." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "We’ve eliminated licence plate stickers and renewal fees, introduced One Fare for GTA transit riders, frozen tuition fees, frozen park fees and have returned almost $12 billion back into the pockets of individuals and families.", "Today, Mr. Speaker, our commitment to affordability continues. Ontarians, like Canadians, are grappling with the aftermath of inflation, high interest rates and the federal carbon tax. While we didn’t create this crisis, make no mistake: The Premier, I and our entire government are determined to do something about it.", "Now, there are only a certain amount of levers that a provincial government can pull to address high inflation or high interest rates, but we do have options. With our new, stronger fiscal position, we can now afford to provide real relief for families to help them in a time of challenge. We know that people aren’t looking for some money back in time for next year’s taxes; frankly, that’s too late. They need real support, and they need it now. That’s why our government is moving forward to provide an extraordinary payment of $200 to every single eligible taxpayer in Ontario. If you file your return, you’ll get a payment, and we’re providing $200 per child under the age of 18, meaning a family of five will receive $1,000.", "Mr. Speaker, I’m under no illusions that this will relieve all of the affordability pressures facing Ontario families, but it will help. It’s real support, and most importantly, it allows the people of Ontario to choose how they can use this money to best help themselves. In fact, this year Ontario families are saving almost $12 billion through our policies of keeping taxes and fees low and giving more money back to the hard-working people of this province.", "Our stronger fiscal position also allows us to continue to invest in building a stronger economy, for our plan very much remains a plan to build. Earlier this spring, we were all excited to be part of Honda’s extraordinary, historic $15-billion investment in our EV supply chain, a truly generational investment. This builds on the billions of investments that have come before, whether Stellantis in Windsor, Volkswagen in St. Thomas, Goodyear in Napanee or countless others, because it’s investments like these will help rebuild our economy and create more jobs.", "As the one-stop shop for those looking to make business in our province, Invest Ontario has helped attract over $4 billion in investments that are expected to create over 4,000 jobs. To keep that momentum going, we’re allocating an additional $100 million to Invest Ontario to secure more strategic investments in a number of key industries, one of them being the life sciences.", "Did you know, Mr. Speaker, that Ontario is actually the largest life sciences hub anywhere in Canada? That’s yet another sector ripe with opportunity for growth, opportunity that we’re seizing, which is why we’re investing an additional is $146 million in our government’s life sciences strategy, to help fuel growth in the entire sector and our entire economy.", "Economic growth is happening everywhere, from east to west, from south to north. As a matter of fact, we are the first government to make steady progress in working with northern Ontario First Nations to unlock that awesome potential of the critical minerals in the Ring of Fire. We’re doing more to power this economic renewal with new sources of energy.", "Today, under the leadership of the Minister of Energy and Electrification, we are pursuing the largest energy procurement in the history of Ontario and leaving nothing off the table: nuclear; hydro; renewables; natural gas; biomass, including the long-term refurbishment of the Pickering generating station.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy", "text": [ "Now that’s something I would applaud.", "Mr. Speaker, Ontario’s economy needs to keep growing and our energy supply needs to keep growing because our population continues to grow. This growing population—a file mismanaged by the federal government—has put incredible strains on our housing, on our health care, on our highways and on our transit system. That is why our plan is a plan to keep building the roads, keep building the highways, keep building the transit we need to get drivers out of gridlock and back to their homes.", "The Toronto Region Board of Trade has estimated that the cost of traffic and congestion in the GTA alone is $11 billion a year. That’s a significant cost. Others are choosing to make the problem even worse by further congesting our streets by ripping up roadways to build almost-empty bike lanes. Well, Mr. Speaker, that’s why we’re retroactively putting in place new rules that will require municipalities to seek provincial approval before ever installing a bike line that would reduce traffic.", "We’re choosing to act, where the previous Liberal government failed to do so. We’re going to get it done. Let me just list a few things: the 413; the Bradford Bypass; the Ontario Line; two-way, all-day GO; the 401 west; the 401 east; the QEW skyway; Highway 7 from Markham—wait for it—to Pickering; and now, a new feasibility study to relieve the most gridlocked highway in North America by building a tunnel under the 401.", "We will leave no stone unturned to help Ontario drivers get out of gridlock and get back home and invest in Ontario’s future.", "This list, of course, wouldn’t be complete without our government’s unprecedented investments in our health care sector. While our spring budget included record investments to build and expand and upgrade more hospitals and grow the pool of available medical professionals needed to staff them, this fall we’re extending the Learn and Stay Grant to help encourage medical students in Ontario to work as family doctors in their communities. And we’re making changes that put our residents first when they apply to medical schools in Ontario, because the more doctors who come from here, the more likely they are to stay here.", "While we lead Canada in the number of doctors per person, there is more work to do. That is why we have appointed Dr. Jane Philpott to lead our new primary care action team. We’re building healthier communities because we want to build healthier families.", "But we recognize that sometimes many families face unique challenges on their way and their journey to parenthood. Barriers to entry such as high costs and long wait-lists keep many families from accessing helpful fertility programs. That’s why we’re moving forward with an investment of an additional $150 million to expand the Ontario Fertility Program and help more Ontarians realize their dream of having children of their own.", "I’d be remiss not thanking my many colleagues in this House: Natalia Kusendova, Christine Hogarth, Dawn Gallagher Murphy, Caroline Mulroney—many people in this House—the Minister of Health, and not least of which, the Premier of Ontario, who supported this program and this investment.", "We have more work to do and a lot more to do to make things happen. That’s why we’re leveraging the most ambitious capital plan in provincial history, with over $191 billion invested over 10 years so that future generations have strong infrastructure.", "We’re increasing the Ontario Municipal Partnership Fund by $100 million for 326 predominantly small, rural and northern municipalities. You need the will to see the big projects through and you need the workers. Just last month, our government announced $26 million for a new LIUNA training facility in Vaughan, part of our $224 million Skills Development Fund Capital Stream. That’s in addition to our investment of $260 million in the latest round of the Skills Development Fund Training Stream that will add on to the nearly 600,000 workers we’ve already retrained and re-skilled.", "1320", "Our government has now introduced five—count them—five Working for Workers bills designed to promote safer, fairer, more accessible and more rewarding options for Ontario workers. One of the most important things we can do for all workers and all Ontario families, quite frankly, is ensure that they can live and work in safe neighbourhoods free from harassment and free from crime. That’s why we’re cracking down on auto theft; cracking down on violent crime, including violence against police officers; cracking down on hate crimes against schools and synagogues; cracking down on an epidemic of illegal drug use, including the opioid crisis. The response from others has been to turn a blind eye to these problems. If they will not lead, we will.", "Premier Ford is continuing to lead national calls for the federal government to stop dragging its feet on bail reform that will keep violent offenders out of our neighbourhoods and behind bars. You know what? We’re investing in new tools to combat the scourge of gang violence and auto thefts. We will be shutting down—and banning—drug consumption close to schools and child care centres. Let’s keep the consumption of drugs away from our kids and get people the treatment and recovery they need.", "The thread connecting all of our actions is clear: This is a government that listens—this is a government and then acts. We’re a government that doesn’t say, “cannot,” and instead asks, “Why not?” This is what leadership looks like and that is what you can count on from this Premier, this government and all of caucus to do. We’re going to continue building Ontario. Let’s do it together. Thank you very much." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Responses?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Catherine Fife", "text": [ "I’m going to start a new tradition. I’m going to dedicate my response to the fall economic statement to my parents Allan and Sheila Wood in Peterborough, and Mel and Carol Chesson in Almonte. They are seniors who are concerned about health care in this province. They are concerned about affordability, and as seniors, they are not alone. We have them at the centre of our attention as a party, I can tell you that.", "This fall economic statement indicates that this government is so disconnected from the people of Ontario, and the proof is in the numbers. Our leader has said that disappointment is the only thing that this government can deliver, not meaningful solutions to your struggles—we agree. For families that are truly in pain, literally, waiting for medication in home care or the anguish of not having mental health supports for your child or your parent, did this mini budget address this crisis? It did not. Even when we proposed a mental health solution in this House earlier this week—30,000 children are on a wait-list waiting for mental health supports—30,000.", "This government, though, couldn’t find money to address this crisis, but they sure could find $650 million to subsidize a European spa’s parking lot at Ontario Place. That’s all you need to know about the priorities of this government. The inconvenient truth, which this Premier seems to be allergic to: Ontario is now a have-not province. We received $570 million this year from the Trudeau government in equalization payments. Can you imagine? Can you imagine Ontario, the economic engine of this country, going cap-in-hand to Justin Trudeau to ask him for some financial support? That is the state of affairs under the leadership of this government. Listen, we shouldn’t be here, because we actually have the capacity to meet our needs, if you invest appropriately, if you invest in the future.", "Housing starts: We can all agree, housing is a crisis in this province. People in Waterloo region have called it a humanitarian crisis, and it is, across this entire province. Housing starts are down, from 87,000 to 81,000. You’re not going to meet your target of 125,000 new housing units. You will never, if you continue on this pathway, ever meet the 1.5 million new homes that Ontario needs. Your stubbornness on not addressing the need for non-market housing is a true failure of leadership.", "I do want to also remind the government that while you’re subsidizing the Ontario Place European spa, 28,000 people in this province are waiting for supportive housing, right? What is this government’s plan, Speaker? The “notwithstanding” clause, as if you can make people, human beings in this province disappear.", "This government appears distracted, quite honestly, by their own incompetence, talking about paper bags at the LCBO and the $100-billion fantasy tunnels, which, given this government’s propensity for alcohol, maybe turns into a funnel. Who knows, Mr. Speaker?", "Meanwhile, emergency room wait times are up, if you have an emergency room in Ontario, if one is open in rural or northern Ontario. Hallway health care has doubled under this government. They doubled the Liberals’ terrible record. Talk about overachieving. Liberals used to call these promises “stretch goals.” Well, you have overachieved. You’ve doubled the number of people each day in a hallway.", "The government loves to tell us that life is better in Ontario than six years ago, but for who? Well, we know who is benefiting from this government. You have to have access to the Premier and to his cellphone number to access contracts, and it’s definitely not the people that we’re elected to serve. How can you not see this and how can you not see the people across this province, especially if you have a child with autism—73,000 children are on the wait-list for autism services. An aging parent who requires specialized care? Not in this fall economic statement. If you’re one of the 2.5 million Ontarians that does not have a doctor, does this document deal with this? Absolutely not. If you live in rural Ontario and don’t have access to a doctor, to an emergency room, or if you’re up north and you’re pregnant, you have to drive 800 kilometres to access medical attention. This is the Ontario that you brag about.", "You had an opportunity with this fall economic statement to course-correct. It’s astounding to us, on this side of the House, that you missed this opportunity. I want to say that the 234,000 homeless people—this is your record that you are bragging about. Nothing in this fall economic statement addresses that need. Speaker, honestly, even when you look at the small increase, it’s actually to address the remedy for Bill 124. This government went to court and spent $4.3 million to defend an unconstitutional piece of legislation. Those are your priorities, and that’s a shameful record for Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Don Valley West." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Stephanie Bowman", "text": [ "I’m pleased to rise today to respond to the minister’s fall economic statement. It’s not a pretty picture in this Premier’s Ontario: 2.5 million people without a family doctor, including 30,000 in my riding and 32,000 in the Premier’s. His friends get a billion dollars—and nursing agencies—from taxpayers. We’ve got 120,000 more people unemployed under this Premier than under the last one, who actually decreased unemployment by 1.6%. Rent is up 83%. Food bank use is at an all-time high. And this government, despite its chest-beating, has actually added over $100 billion to our net debt. We owe more money per capita than ever. Once again, the Conservatives did not take the opportunity to fix their 2018 promise. It remains a broken promise to deliver a middle-income tax cut.", "1330", "They did not deliver a tax cut to small businesses; instead, we have a slowing economy, a decrease in jobs, and, according to StatsCan—again, despite their chest beating—only 5,000 manufacturing jobs have been created in this province since this Premier took office. The real picture is they have tunnel vision.", "I do agree with the minister on one thing: There is more to do. Too bad it’s not more for you." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "The member for Guelph." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Mike Schreiner", "text": [ "Speaker, I join people desperately searching for a home they can afford, a doctor they can visit, access to mental health care in saying that billionaires and millionaires do not deserve a $200 cheque from this government.", "This government has abandoned young people who are leaving Ontario because they can’t afford to buy a home, full-time workers who cannot afford the rent, people who are experiencing homelessness in unprecedented numbers, because this government is saying no to housing and yes to cheques for billionaires.", "This economic statement fails to solve hallway medicine, fails to end legislated poverty for people with disabilities, fails to build infrastructure to protect us from the climate-fuelled floods that hit the GTA this summer, fails to build homes people can afford.", "The people of this province deserve better. That’s what the Ontario Greens are fighting for." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "I would like to thank Suzanne Leblanc from Hanmer in my riding for this petition. It’s called “A Future for Child Care in Ontario.”", "You know, Speaker, that without child care, people can’t work; people can’t go to work. The child care centres are presently forced to limit the enrolment into the child care spaces because of staffing shortages. There is a huge disparity between the number of people who need child care and the number of child care spaces available. Experts estimate that Ontario needs as many as 65,000 new child care workers to meet the demand for $10-a-day child care. Where in this economic statement is the strategy to recruit and retain a stable workforce in child care? Where is the promised salary grid for early childhood educators and child care workers so that people feel respected in the work that they do?", "Everybody who has signed this petition wants immediately established an early years and child care workers advisory committee to develop recommendations to make sure that the staffing shortages are worked upon, and that the salary scales are actually adopted by the government of Ontario and they are fairly compensated for the important work that they provide.", "I fully support this petition, will affix my name to it and ask Sophie to bring it to the Clerk." ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Once again, I’m going to use a few more seconds to remind the members that we need to summarize the petition without getting into a lot of additional editorial comment about the merits of the petition. You can also indicate the number of people who have signed the petition, but the standing order is quite clear, and I’m going to ask members to adhere to the standing order." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MmeLucille Collard", "text": [ "I have a petition here from Dr. Sally Palmer that is signed by 27 Ontarians. The petition asks the Legislative Assembly to double social assistance rates for OW and ODSP. It outlines a few reasons for this, including the fact that the current rates are well below Canada’s official Market Basket Measure poverty line, and it describes how small increases to ODSP have still been insufficient to lift people above the poverty line, particularly given the rate of inflation in recent years, and the rising cost of food and rent.", "I agree with this petition. I will affix my signature to it and send it to the table with Dimitri." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "I have a petition signed by over 600 people, originated by Roger Hardy and Jim Brown, regarding the former Highway 67 by Iroquois Falls. The previous Conservative government downloaded provincial highways to municipalities of over 5,000 people. Later, Iroquois Falls fell below 5,000 people, and quite frankly, they can’t afford to maintain what is now known as a municipal road. It’s obvious it doesn’t belong to the municipality. It shouldn’t be part of the municipality, and because this road has been downloaded, the municipality can’t afford to fix the things they should fix.", "This petition is asking the province to re-upload the municipal road and put it back into Highway 67, along with the other municipal highways that they’ve downloaded, so municipalities can actually afford to do the things they’re supposed to do.", "We fully, wholeheartedly agree. Thank you for this time, Speaker." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "I would like to thank Madame Nicole Sabourin, from Hanmer in my riding, for this petition, called, “Northern Ontario’s Opioid Overdose Crisis is a Public Health Emergency.”", "As you know, Speaker, first responders in my community respond to a minimum of five to six overdoses on every single shift. In 2020, there were 268 overdoses that EMS responded to, including 83 deaths. In 2021, those numbers continued to go up. On average, it’s two people in Sudbury who die from an overdose; the Greater Sudbury per capita overdose death rate is two to three times what it is in the rest of our province.", "The city of Greater Sudbury, as well as the communities around, is asking the provincial government to save lives, to declare the opioid overdose crisis in northern Ontario a public health emergency, and to commit to funding comprehensive, evidence-based health and community initiatives, as well as infrastructure so that we can prevent all of these deaths.", "I fully support this petition. I will affix my name to it and ask page Marie-David to bring it to the Clerk." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "I would like to thank Rob Walker from my riding for these petitions. It’s called, “Supportive Housing.”", "Did you know, Speaker, that there are 2.6 million Ontarians living with a disability that requires different levels of support? Ontarians living with disabilities are at a way increased risk of institutionalization due to the lack of supportive housing. The new housing starts are either not accessible or too expensive for people living with a disability, so they are asking this government to look at accessible supportive housing, allowing adults with different levels of ability and disability to live independently.", "In my riding, we have the Lorraine Street project, which is 40 units. The federal government has given money to build, but they are asking this provincial government to fund the services in those new units, and I hope they’ll come good.", "I fully support this petition. I will affix my name to it and ask Marie-David to bring it to the Clerk." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Bhutila Karpoche", "text": [ "This petition is titled, “Double Social Assistance Rates.” There are about 900,000 people who rely on social assistance in Ontario, and the Ontario Disability Support Program only provides about $1,200 and Ontario Works only provides just over $700. This amount is not enough for people to live. As you know, it’s not enough to pay for housing, even—housing is very expensive—and so, with these rates, we’re keeping people in legislated poverty.", "There’s so much work that we need to do on the social assistance file, but let’s start with doubling social assistance rates. I have this petition here that is calling on the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to double social assistance rates immediately so that people can live dignified and healthy lives.", "1340", "I fully support this petition and will affix my signature to it." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MPP Jill Andrew", "text": [ "This petition is titled “Fix Ontario’s Family Doctor Shortage,” and of course, it’s directed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and this Conservative government. Point blank, it’s telling this government that 2.5 million Ontarians do not have family doctors. Some of those folks live in my community of Toronto–St. Paul’s.", "What it means is that they are relying on wait-lists—or should I say walk-ins, actually, is what I meant to say. If they can’t get a walk-in, then the next bet is Sunnybrook Hospital, where they spend many hours in the ER if they don’t have a family doctor.", "This petition is asking for the government to implement a strategy to help doctors help patients. That includes getting more doctors, but it also includes providing doctors with the support health teams that they need so they’re not wasting dozens of hours a week on paperwork but are instead in front of patients, where they need to be as primary care providers.", "I absolutely support this petition. I will affix my signature to it, and I will hand it over to Nikki." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Bhutila Karpoche", "text": [ "I too have a petition here entitled “Fix Ontario’s Family Doctor Shortage.”", "Right now in Ontario, 2.2 million residents do not have access to primary care, which puts their health at risk. We know that without proper access to primary care, more people end up in emergency rooms, which are already stretched thin and which are already overcrowded. We have hallway health care in our hospitals.", "We really need to take an upstream approach, and that is by ensuring that every Ontarian is connected to primary care and also to ensure that primary care providers are supported with the resources and that they have the capacity to take on more patients. We also need to ensure that we’re not wasting the time of primary care providers through unnecessary paperwork and putting too much burden on them.", "We can do that work by hiring additional staff to take on that portion of the primary care provider’s responsibility, the administrative portion.", "Finally, I’ve been knocking on doors in my riding, and I have met so many family members, parents especially, who are very worried about their kids aging out of their pediatrician care and then not having access to family doctors.", "This petition calls on the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to urgently implement a strategy to increase the number of staff support to primary care providers and to ensure that primary care providers can spend their time treating patients and that every person is connected to primary care." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "I would like to thank the members of the International Union of Operating Engineers who sent me this petition. It’s called “Saving Organs to Save Lives.”", "Did you know, Speaker, that we have about between 1,500 and 1,600 people in Ontario that are on a wait-list for an organ transplant?", "Every three days, somebody dies waiting for a transplant because there are no organs available. One organ donor can save up to eight lives, and that could have an impact on up to 75 people, depending on the type of transplant.", "If you ask, over 90% of Ontarians support organ transplants, but only 36% have signed their cards.", "When Nova Scotia implemented presumed consent, the number of organs available increased dramatically.", "The people who have signed the petition are asking this government to support my bill—it’s called presumed consent—so that we have more organs available to help the people that are on a wait-list.", "I support this petition. I will affix my name to it and ask page Ali to bring it to the Clerk." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Bhutila Karpoche", "text": [ "This petition is entitled “Create a Caregiver Support Benefit.” There are 3.3 million Ontarians who have been an unpaid caregiver. Some 300,000 Ontario caregivers have said that they have experienced financial hardship, felt the burden of the caregiving responsibility and have had to dip into savings in order to provide care. There are so many people who act as caregivers who have no access to direct financial support. They have to either leave their job or do reduced hours. Some have had to leave school in order to provide care.", "This petition is calling on the Ontario government to pass motion 94, which is before the House, to create an Ontario Caregiver Support Benefit that will provide paid direct financial benefit to unpaid caregivers in Ontario. This motion has the support of the Canadian Cancer Society, MS Canada, Community Living Ontario and the Alzheimer Society of Ontario, and they’re all asking for the Ontario government to create this support benefit.", "I fully support the petition and will affix my signature to it." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "I have a petition that’s been certified by the table and signed. It’s a petition regarding the Ring of Fire. It basically acknowledges that it’s a critical resource for our province; it provides a number of things to various industries: clean tech, manufacturing. It basically acknowledges as well that there will be significant job creation and economic growth. At the end, what they’re asking Ontario is that we harness the economic potential of the Ring of Fire on a timely basis.", "I’m very pleased to present this petition to the Legislature. I’m going to affix my signature, because I agree with it wholeheartedly, and I’ll send it to the table with page Graham." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Patrice Barnes", "text": [ "Today I stand before you to discuss a critical piece of legislation that promises to shape the future of our great province. The Affordable Energy Act was introduced by our dedicated Minister of Energy and Electrification, Minister Lecce, alongside parliamentary assistants Sam Oosterhoff, John Yakabuski and Rudy Cuzzetto.", "This represents a very pivotal moment in Ontario. This bill is not just a response to our current energy demands; it is a bold step toward a sustainable and prosperous future for all Ontarians.", "As we look around, it is clear that we are at a crossroads. The world has experienced unprecedented energy demands driven by population growth, technological advancements and the electrification of our economy. Ontario is no exception. Energy demand in Ontario is soaring as we build homes, welcome historic international investments and electrify our economy.", "I just want to say, Speaker, that I will be sharing my time with the MPP from Mississauga–Lakeshore.", "We are poised to become a leader in clean energy, and the Affordable Energy Act is the key to unlocking that potential.", "This is not just a challenge; it is an opportunity—an opportunity to position our province as a leader in clean, affordable and reliable energy. This is the vision of the Affordable Energy Act.", "If passed, the Affordable Energy Act will set the stage for Ontario’s first-ever integrated energy plan. This groundbreaking initiative will coordinate all energy resources, ensuring that we meet the soaring demand for energy while ensuring energy remains affordable.", "In addition to Ontario’s first-ever energy plan, this legislation, if passed, would prioritize reliable, affordable and zero-emission nuclear power generation to effectively meet future demand. Unlike the Liberals, who planned to shut down the nuclear energy plant in Pickering, our government is leading the largest nuclear expansion on the continent, including Bruce and Darlington, which creates 12,000 skilled and well-paying jobs, especially in the Durham region. The nuclear industry employs approximately 65,000 jobs and continues to grow with advancing the creation of SMRs, which will provide power for 1.2 million homes.", "1350", "It is a time to move beyond the piecemeal approaches of the past. This legislation is timely and necessary. As our province continues to grow, so do our energy needs. Families and businesses alike are feeling the strain of rising energy costs, and it is our responsibility as elected officials to ensure that energy remains affordable and accessible. This is not merely an economic issue. It’s a social imperative. We must ensure that no family is forced to choose between putting food on the table and keeping the lights on in Ontario.", "The Affordable Energy Act will enable the government to implement Ontario’s first-ever integrated plan. This plan is designed to align our diverse energy resources with our pro-growth agenda. This is not to be exclusive of clean energy. This is an integrated plan that embraces all forms of energy. By prioritizing clean and affordable and reliable energy through the use of nuclear power, solar, gas, we are taking a giant leap towards securing our energy future while addressing climate change.", "Our commitment to sustainability is not just about meeting today’s demands, it is about laying the groundwork for future generations. Unlike the previous Liberal government, which burdened families with costly energy experiments driven by ideology, our government is committed to practicality and affordability. The failed Green Energy Act left many Ontarians struggling with skyrocketing bills, an average increase of over 300% for many households. This will not be repeated.", "Our commitment is clear: Affordability is our number one priority. Our government, in contrast, is focused on affordability and sustainability. We understand that Ontario must emerge as a global leader in clean energy, and Ontario is at the forefront. The Affordable Energy Act is a testament to that vision. We continue to work on not just supplying energy but making energy a commodity, with a vision to not just supply Ontario, but to sell that energy across North America.", "This legislation will allow us to harness the full potential of our energy resources while ensuring that we do so in a way that is environmentally responsible. It reflects our government’s understanding that economic growth and environmental stewardship can go hand in hand. It does not have to be one or the other. We’re committed to investing in the technologies of tomorrow, and we recognize that clean energy is not just the future—right now, it is the present.", "The legislation is not merely about today’s concerns, but about the concerns of our children and our grandchildren. We’re making generational decisions that will ensure Ontario emerges as a global leader in clean energy. By investing in technology and infrastructure, we’re not only providing reliable energy for our residents but also creating jobs and revenue for Ontario families.", "In contrast, the previous government’s approach led to energy poverty for many. Families were left struggling to keep the lights on, and businesses were faced with insurmountable costs that caused them to pick up shop and move across the border. With the Affordable Energy Act, we are changing that narrative. Our focus on affordability and sustainability will put money back into the pockets of Ontarians, helping them thrive in their everyday lives.", "Furthermore, the act serves as a catalyst for innovation in our energy sector. By aligning our energy resources and strategies, we will foster a landscape where new technologies can flourish. We’ll encourage investment in clean energy solutions, making Ontario an attractive destination for companies looking to pioneer in this field.", "As we transition to a low-carbon economy, we also must ensure that we are providing training and education for our workforce. The energy sector is evolving, and we must equip our people with the skills needed for the jobs of the future. This bill recognizes that investing in human capital is as vital as investing in infrastructure.", "As we move forward, we recognize the vital role our Indigenous communities must play in our energy sector. Many Indigenous groups are already leading energy projects across Ontario. Our government is committed to meaningful engagement and consultation with these communities as we develop our integrated plan. The Watay Power transmission project, for example, is a landmark initiative that will connect 18,000 people in 16 remote communities, estimated to avoid 6.6 million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions per year—the equivalent of taking 35,000 cars off the roads.", "In conclusion, I urge all members of this assembly to support the Affordable Energy Act. This landmark legislation is not merely about energy; it is about the future of our province. It’s about ensuring that Ontarians can live comfortably and thrive in a rapidly changing world. Let us put aside partisanship and work together for the greater good of all our constituents. By passing this bill, we will be making a statement that Ontario is ready to meet the energy challenges of the 21st century. We will be declaring our commitment to affordability, sustainability and innovation. Let us create a future where energy is not a burden but a pathway to growth and prosperity.", "I’m proud to stand with my colleagues, and I turn it over to the member from Mississauga–Lakeshore." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "As the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Energy and Electrification, it’s a real honour to rise this afternoon to support Bill 214, the Affordable Energy Act, that we introduced last week, together with the Associate Minister of Energy-Intensive Industries and the parliamentary assistant from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke. Yesterday, they spoke about our plan for the future of energy in Ontario, and this afternoon I’d like to add a few points about this very important bill. I also want to thank the former minister, Todd Smith, for his leadership on this file over the last three years.", "Speaker, as the minister said, before we look forward, it’s worth taking a moment to look back at the record of the previous Liberal government. In her 2015 report, the Auditor General warned us the planning process for energy had broken down under the Liberals and they were making decisions without considering the whole energy market or long-term costs and benefits. They signed over 33,000 contracts to buy expensive power that Ontario didn’t need, for over 80 cents per kilowatt hour, when nuclear power was available for just six cents. Then, they lost billions of dollars exporting energy to the US and Quebec, sometimes actually paying New York and others to take the surplus power.", "Under Liberal mismanagement like this, the Auditor General reported that Ontario’s consumers were having to pay for electricity that was overpriced by up to $170 billion. Speaker, that’s roughly the size of the GDP of Portugal, Greece or New Zealand. For a typical Ontario family, this meant that the power bills were thousands of dollars higher than they should have been every year. Premier Wynne herself admitted many seniors were forced to choose between heating and eating because of the Liberal government’s mistakes. And, like the associate minister said, I met some of our people at the doors.", "On November 30, 2016, the Auditor General warned that the Liberals’ cap-and-trade carbon tax would cost families and businesses $2 billion more each year, with much of it sent to California for little or no environmental benefit. She wrote, “These funds may be leaving the Ontario economy for no purpose other than to help the government claim it has met a target.”", "In fact, it was worse than that. As electricity rates skyrocketed, Ontario, which has one of the cleanest electricity systems in the world, lost over 300,000 manufacturing jobs, including many well-paying jobs in the auto industry, and many jobs went to American states like Ohio and West Virginia, where over 90% of their energy came from coal. Speaker, driving manufacturing out of Ontario down to the coal states was never the answer, either for our economy or for the climate, but this was the Liberal policy for 15 years.", "1400", "In 2017, the former Liberal Minister of Finance—who I defeated in Mississauga–Lakeshore—said that assembly line manufacturing was just “a thing of the past” in Ontario. Later that year, the Auditor General warned us that the Liberal Fair Hydro Plan would cost Ontario up to $93 billion, and the Liberals were using “inappropriate” accounting to keep these costs out of the provincial budget and hidden from voters. And, Speaker, I could go on.", "As University of Toronto Professor Michael Trebilcock said, “The Liberal record on energy is one of the biggest boondoggles in the history of Ontario.” But, Speaker, back in March, just outside this chamber, Liberal leader Bonnie Crombie told Colin D’Mello that these Liberal energy policies were “a great program.” Speaker, Ontario will never go back to the failed Liberal energy policies of the past, and that’s what Bill 214 is about.", "Over the past six years, we’ve cut taxes, energy costs and red tape. We’ve made Ontario open for business again, adding over 860,000 manufacturing jobs here in Ontario. We’ve made Ontario a leader in electric vehicle and battery manufacturing with over $45 billion of investment from global automakers like Honda, Stellantis and Volkswagen.", "Two weeks ago, I joined the minister in my riding at Johnson Electric, a global leader in auto parts manufacturing for electric and hybrid vehicles. We announced that, because of these investments, the IESO expects Ontario’s demand for electricity to grow by 75% by 2050. Speaker, it’s never been more important to ensure that Ontario has a long-term energy plan that considers the whole energy market and long-term costs and benefits until at least 2050. And for the first time in Ontario, that’s exactly what Bill 214 would do. It will help us deliver the power we need, keeping both costs and emissions down, and without an expensive, job-killing carbon tax.", "Speaker, our plan includes the largest expansion of clean nuclear energy in North America, including the first small modular reactors in the G7 at Darlington, which are on schedule and on budget. Much of the early progress is happening in Mississauga–Lakeshore at Candu Energy. I welcomed the Premier and the Minister of Energy for a tour earlier this month.", "But, Speaker, people across the country and around the world are watching Ontario closely. Earlier this month, I joined Alberta Minister Nathan Neudorf for a tour of the Darlington SMR site, and I’ve met with officials from Europe, including the French ambassador.", "Hatch, another great company in Mississauga–Lakeshore, is working to improve and expand Ontario’s hydroelectric plants.", "Our plan also includes the largest battery storage procurement in Canadian history, and just last Wednesday, I was honoured to attend the grand opening of e-Zinc’s new 42,000-square-foot facility in Mississauga. I want to thank their CEO, James Larsen, again for the tour and for everything he’s doing to develop cost-efficient, long-term energy storage.", "Speaker, last Monday morning, the minister was in Toronto to announce that our government will reduce costs for future homeowners by making it easier to connect new homes to Ontario’s clean electricity grid. I couldn’t attend, Speaker, because at the same time, I was speaking at the groundbreaking for the district energy system at Lakeview Village in my riding, on the site of the old OPG coal plant.", "Back in August, the Premier and I announced a $35-million investment right next door to expand the G.E. Booth Wastewater Treatment Plant to enable 47,000 new homes. Now, in partnership with Enwave Energy, we’re using the waste water from the plant to provide high-efficiency, low-carbon power to our new lakefront communities. This system will be the first of its kind in Ontario and the largest in Canada.", "Some 23 years ago, Minister Elizabeth Witmer, a PC MPP, came to this site to announce Ontario’s coal plants would be closed, beginning with Lakeview. And now, we’re building one of Canada’s most sustainable new communities at the site, including 16,000 new homes and 1,600 affordable or attainable units. I know that Bonnie Crombie is still livid about this, but our government is moving ahead, supporting the construction of thousands of new homes near transit so that more young families and new Canadians can afford to own a home in Mississauga.", "Last Thursday, the minister spoke about our vision at the Empire Club, to leaders from across the energy sector and across the province. After losing investments and jobs to the US and China for 15 years under the Liberals, there was a real excitement and hope in the room about our vision for Ontario as a clean energy superpower, and about our focus on affordability. One of the executives at my table, who had travelled from Essex, said he’s seen more progress in the last six months than in the last 20 years, another reminder that earlier this year, when Bonnie Crombie came to the Empire Club, she spoke about her plan to raise taxes. But again, Ontario is never going back.", "We are moving forward and building for the future, and Bill 214 will be an important part of our future. I want to thank this minister for doing what he’s been doing over the last six months. I’ve never seen this much action happening in a ministry since I’ve been elected. I want to congratulate him, and our whole team all together, for what we’re doing to build the new energy grid that we need to continue keeping our investments here in Ontario and building the economy we need." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "It is now time for questions." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "I listened intently to both presentations, particularly the part about the green energy plan from the Liberals. I was a farmer when it was announced and I can remember, I was at a conference when it was announced—and that you could get 80 cents per kilowatt for a solar panel, and I was paying at the time eight cents per kilowatt for hydro. I thought, “This is not going to be good for the province.”", "But at least I had the numbers. Both members talked about how they want to do it more economically, but at what point are Ontarians actually going to see the numbers, the true cost, whether it’s solar, whether it’s wind, whether it’s nuclear? It’s one thing to say it’s going to be more economical, because we’ve heard that from the Liberal government too, and it wasn’t.", "When are we going to see the numbers? No one is going to buy into any kind of business deal unless you see the numbers, and you’re dealing for the province, so where are the numbers?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "I want to thank the member for that question. As we’ve said, we are procuring 5,000 megawatts of power and we’re going to open it up to everyone. We’re going to have solar. We’re going to have wind. We’re going to have bio. We’re going to have every type of energy available to compete in that market, and we’re looking for the best price, as well. That’s going to be very important.", "You remember the Green Energy Act under the Liberals. They were sending money to California—Ontario taxpayers’ money to California, not keeping it here in Ontario. We were losing 300,000 jobs. I want to thank the Minister of Economic Development, who has been able to attract over 860,000 new jobs here in Ontario because of our energy prices. We’re competitive now and we’re going to keep being competitive as we move forward. But we’re going to build the grid as we need that to move forward as well." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "I wanted to correct one of the statements that the member for Ajax made. She called the plan referred to in this bill Ontario’s first-ever energy plan. That’s wrong, because Ontario had a long-term energy plan in 2017, and I think what’s happened is that this government has delayed for so long that they’ve even forgotten history, or maybe had to make it up.", "So what is the result of this delay? The result of this delay is that things cost a lot more. All sorts of heavy equipment cost a lot more. We are behind the United States when it comes to lining up for a procurement, because they passed the IRA Act and we’re just getting started now. If you talk to industry, all sorts of things, whether it’s transformers or equipment for transmission, is all more expensive, so why did this government delay?", "1410" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Before you respond, I just want to remind the member that use of the term “making it up” is not acceptable.", "Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "I know the member wasn’t here at that time; we were paying people 80 cents a kilowatt hour compared to six cents for nuclear, and we’re still paying those contracts that we have.", "I’ll be honest: One of my councillors in Mississauga–Lakeshore is on that plan. He’s getting 80 cents a kilowatt hour for electricity when, right now, we could be paying six cents a kilowatt—can you imagine deals like that? Then you were wondering why we lost all the manufacturing here in Ontario. They were leaving. At the time, I was working at Ford Motor Co. Ford did not want to stay here. Even Chrysler—Sergio Marchionne said that Ontario was not a jurisdiction to build vehicles in anymore.", "I want to thank the Minister of Economic Development again for bringing all these jobs back to Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mrs. Robin Martin", "text": [ "Thank you to the member for Mississauga–Lakeshore for his comments. I was around during that terrible mess. In fact, the Green Energy Act and the unfair hydro act brought in by the Liberals were among the reasons a lot of us wanted to run, because it was insanity in Ontario. I think the Liberals signed energy contracts costing Ontarians, the Auditor General said, $37 billion more than was necessary. What bothered me was they put it on the backs of future generations, who were going to have to pay for these ill-considered contracts. I don’t even know how a Liberal can stand in this House and talk about energy.", "What I wanted to ask you was if you could elaborate on why it’s so important that our plan focuses on affordability as an important factor in energy." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "I want to thank the member from Eglington–Lawrence for her question, and I want to thank her as well for all the great work she does in her riding.", "Just think about it: If you can get electricity cheaper, that’s where you would attract companies to go. If I was a manufacturer, like in the auto industry, I would go to the cheapest jurisdiction where I could get electricity. Now, I wouldn’t want to go to a coal state like the US has, so if you want to protect the environment at the same time as building your industry, you have to go to a place where you have clean electricity.", "Ontario is a leader in clean electricity. That’s what we want. We want clean electricity, and at a low cost, to attract more companies to Ontario to build and pay taxes, at the end of the day, so we can fund all our programs that we have in the province of Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Sol Mamakwa", "text": [ "Over the weekend, I was in far northern Ontario. I know there’s an energy crisis. I say that because, as soon as we landed in that community, a fly-in First Nation, their power had been out for five hours. Later on in my visit, the power came on after about seven hours.", "What really struck me at that time was that—I went there for the funeral—when I walked into the church, I saw three caskets. There’s a suicide crisis that’s happening, there’s an energy crisis, there’s an infrastructure crisis, there’s a housing crisis.", "Can this government tell me how this bill impacts people living in Ontario, but specifically how this bill responds to the issue of energy poverty and the energy crisis that’s happening in northern Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "I want to thank the member for his question. If we can get northern Ontario off diesel fuel with SMRs and clean energy, that will help the whole community at large. Not only that, but that will bring well-paying jobs into the community, and that’s what we want. We want everyone to have a well-paying job in the energy sector. It is one of the most important sectors right now.", "I was in Europe this summer, and I’ll tell you this: Greece, Romania, Poland, everyone is looking at Ontario right now as we’re building the first full-scale SMR in the world right here at Darlington. This is unbelievable. We are the leaders in nuclear energy, which will supply electricity for everyone in Ontario and across the US as well. We’re going to be exporting our electricity across North America.", "Thank you very much for that question." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Andrew Dowie", "text": [ "I want to thank the member from Mississauga–Lakeshore for his remarks, particularly mentioning the citizen from Essex who came up.", "I remember not too long ago—actually, it was long ago, 2014—that Minister Chiarelli mentioned that we were going to get a new power line to Leamington and Kingsville in 2015. It is now 2024, it’s finally being actioned under this government, and it shows the need for an integrated electrical strategy.", "This bill has the integrated energy plan being described. I’m hoping you might be able to elaborate as to what that plan looks like, to give us some great assurances down the southwest that this government gets it and gets the need for energy in the southwest." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto", "text": [ "I want to thank the member as well for that question. My uncle immigrated to Windsor many years ago, and he worked at Ford and Chrysler there for many years. Windsor is one of the leading automakers in Canada. Having dependable electricity is so important to companies like Ford, Chrysler—Stellantis now—VW, because without stable electricity, they will not invest in this province.", "Having stable electricity that we are going to build forward—we’re going to build 88,000 megawatts of electricity across the province of Ontario. That’s doubling our grid right now. By doing that, we keep attracting companies, which will keep people working in the province of Ontario and in Windsor as well." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "That’s all the time we have for questions.", "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "It’s always a pleasure to rise in this House, particularly to talk about an issue that is critical to the future of Ontario, which is our energy system.", "I would say the bill before us, Bill 214, the Affordable Energy Act, is not really a plan. It’s not really laying out what the government’s going to do. It’s a plan to present a plan. Despite the fact that this is such an important issue for our future, for our economy and for our workers, I’m disappointed with the lack of detail and, certainly, the lack of transparency that is in this bill.", "Let me start by acknowledging that our energy needs are growing. It’s absolutely the truth. We know that. We all know that our energy needs are growing and that we, more than ever, need a government that’s serious about tackling our energy in all parts of it; that they will be tackling our energy needs and our energy grid, keeping in mind affordability, keeping in mind reliability and keeping in mind sustainability.", "When I talk about affordability, I’m not just talking about the mega costs that these projects will entail, I’m talking about centring a bill around the people in the province of Ontario that are struggling to pay their energy bills that we know. We just had a fall economic statement that provided, really, no relief to people that are struggling to pay their bills. Maybe they’re going to get a one-time $200 election cheque in January, but that’s not sustainable, and that won’t address the ongoing costs that people in this province are burdened with.", "In the last six years, people have seen their grocery bills skyrocket, and their housing costs, their energy costs. They have to now pay user fees to access medical services. The very fact that we are looking at an energy bill that doesn’t ground this in affordability for the people in the province of Ontario is deeply disappointing.", "In fact, I will go on to explain this, but the bill says that it “may” consider affordability—not “shall,” but that this bill “may” consider the issue of affordability. I’m stunned to see that, because it seems to me that that should be one of the primary factors when it comes to spending the kinds of hundreds of billions of dollars that this plan entails. These billions of dollars come from where? Who’s paying for this? We know who’s paying for it. We, the taxpayers of Ontario, are paying for it.", "The people in the province of Ontario already feel like they’re not getting what they’ve already paid for. They pay their taxes. They’ve had downloaded costs on their residential or property taxes because of the cuts in services from this government. The people in the province of Ontario, they’re doing their part. They’re paying their taxes, what they have to, but the government is failing to deliver back what they are owed.", "They owe a health care system that allows them to actually have a doctor, to go to emergency or call an ambulance when it’s needed. Some 2.5 million people in the province of Ontario don’t have a primary health care provider.", "1420", "For a government that’s failing to deliver on the most basic, fundamental needs—education, healthy schools, schools that don’t have roofs falling in or lead in the water—to embark on this needed, yet ambitious plan with no transparency, no commitment to affordability and no commitment to addressing climate change, is really a disappointing failure on the part of this government. I don’t know why I should be disappointed—colour me eternally optimistic, but here we go.", "Let’s just start with the fact that, as I’ve said, we know that the energy needs in the province are changing, that’s true. We also know that in Ontario we have the kind of skill, we have the kind of expertise—in fact, we export this expertise in our energy sector and we should be proud of that. We have all the ingredients we need to ensure that we have an energy grid that will continue to support us in the way that we expect, but also that we will be set up to participate in a thriving economy that also addresses the low-carbon future that is around us, the low-carbon future that the entire globe is moving toward. Any serious plan needs to address the shift to non-emitting sources and stop the over-reliance on gas as we face climate change. That’s not addressed in this bill.", "When it comes to large infrastructure projects, I’m sorry to say, and I’m sure that many will agree with me—maybe not on the other side of the House, but almost every other person in the province of Ontario. When it comes to spending on big infrastructure projects, this government’s track record, especially when it comes to financial transparency, is really, really sorely lacking.", "And so, while we, again, need a bill like this, we need it to be a good bill, and this is not a good bill. This bill not only takes us in the wrong direction when it comes to addressing our existential need to decarbonize our grid and to move to a low-carbon future, it also is taking us in the wrong direction when it comes to transparency and taking the politics out of energy-planning decisions.", "I’ll talk about my experience with the Liberals’ role in politicizing energy policies from the previous government. It’s really quite shocking to see that this government is just taking a page right out of the Liberals’ books when it comes to lack of transparency, lack of accountability and making political concerns the key feature of decisions that are made in this file and not the focus on the people of the province of Ontario.", "Because we have seen this government time and time again push legislation through this House that takes away any kind of guardrails for the people of the province of Ontario for accountability. We have seen bills that have taken away people’s right, when it comes to the Environmental Bill of Rights, to be consulted. We have seen the government give themselves enormous powers to expropriate property without justification, without the need to go to court to make the case when they are expropriating people’s property.", "We’ve also seen a government that has really been deeply focused on protecting themselves from any accountability. I don’t know—I’ve lost track—how many bills they’ve rammed through this House where they’ve given themselves immunity from prosecution. What comes to mind is the Premier’s promise to put an iron ring around the senior citizens in the province of Ontario, but what ended up happening was he put an iron ring around the for-profit providers that had horrible mortality in their for-profit homes—" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "Put an iron ring around their profits." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "—yes, put an iron ring around their profits—and then introduced legislation in this House that protected them and gave them immunity from any consequences for their actions. So, really, a “trust us” government this is not. This is especially serious when it comes to something as serious and complex and as expensive as managing our energy needs in the future.", "The question for all of us is that we need to get this right. How do we get this right? Do we just take this behind closed doors? Do we just allow one minister to make the decisions? Because that’s what this bill does; it gives the minister unilateral power to make decisions in this energy field.", "So the question for all of us is, do we trust this government to make these decisions? My answer is no, and I’m sure 99% of the people of the province of Ontario, given this government’s track record, would say, “No, we do not trust this government, not only on transparency but on proper fiscal management.”", "To move to 2050 and for us to successfully decarbonize our economy, the IESO has put the price tag at about $400 billion. That’s a lot of money, and that is only just for the baseload system. It doesn’t include conversion costs for individual households. It doesn’t cover the costs that you and I might incur to get off fossil fuel gas, to buy a heat pump, to insulate our homes. That cost is not included in here.", "We have a global energy transition that’s under way and we know that electrification is a central theme, but this government, again, in this bill, does not talk about renewables. It’s not in here. There’s no discussion. I mean, I know they keep saying that it’s an all-above response, but it’s not in here.", "Last year, 83% of the world’s new energy supply came from renewables, but so far, this government has not signed one contract for renewables in this province. While, again, the government is saying, “Trust us. We’re going to focus on renewables. We’re going to have a balanced approach”—it’s not in the bill and there’s no mechanism for transparency.", "Part of the reason that we’re focused on transparency and affordability is because we know, with numbers like this—billions and billions of dollars—if we get it wrong, it’s going to cost taxpayers. It always does. It always does. This government has no compunction to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on whatever fever dream the Premier has when it comes to his new tunnel vision. We not only can’t afford expensive energy; we can’t afford to get it wrong. We can’t overbuild. We can’t under-build, absolutely, so we can’t lose economic opportunities. But if we overbuild, who is paying for that? Not the government—it’s the taxpayers of the province of Ontario.", "How would we know that the government is taking into account the costs that will end up on the shoulders of the taxpayers? Again, in this bill—and while the government says over and over again that they’re committed to affordability, I should note that the bill says the minister “may,” not “shall,” consider affordability in developing his plan. So he may consider it. It depends what mood he’s in. It depends what lobbyists happen to be bending his ear.", "If this was a government that was truly concerned with affordability for taxpayers, why isn’t it in the bill? Why don’t you say, “We absolutely shall. We will centre this plan on the cost that will be borne by the taxpayers”? I’m pretty sure, given my short time here—six years here or seven years; they seem like dog years, actually—but for each year that I’ve been here, I’ve seen this government time and time again. If it’s not in a bill—" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jill Andrew", "text": [ "It ain’t going to happen." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "It ain’t going to happen, right? If it’s not in black and white—actually, even if it is in a contract or in a bill, if they don’t like it, rip it up.", "We know that, right off the bat, the government has already given themselves wiggle room by saying “may,” not “shall.” Just repeating the word “affordability” over and over and over again doesn’t mean it’s actually happening, and people know that. They don’t need you to tell them things are affordable. They know at the end of the month that they’re coming up short. People know.", "People are actually so upset and cynical about this $200 cheque that’s coming. Do you know why? They know they need it. They know they’re going to cash it. They know they need to put it in the bank, but they also are not fooled by this. They know that this comes at the cost of health care, housing. They know that their kids’ schools are suffering, and this $200 is a drop in the bucket, but they need a drop in the bucket.", "But what they actually need is a government that’s not going to spend $3.5 billion on a one-time cheque, that will actually be a responsible government and make sure the basics that people expect from their government—I mean, you’re here to make sure that when people go to a hospital, they can be seen. A government should make sure that a woman in northern Ontario can deliver a baby less than 800 kilometres away. These are basic expectations of a government, and you are failing to meet those basic expectations at the same time as you are spending big.", "1430", "This government currently has the largest sub-sovereign national debt in North America.", "I remember Minister Fedeli, when I first was running for election, talking on The Agenda to Deb Matthews, and being shocked at how the Liberal government manipulated the books as they did, to take costs off-book. I also remember the minister saying, “Oh, I understand why you’ve done that now: because if you didn’t do that, your debt-to-GDP would be 40%, which is a rate where people start to get pretty antsy.” And guess what this government’s debt-to-GDP is? The minister will know full well that it is 40% and climbing. So you are awash in debt. You’re spending big, but you are not spending it on the people of the people on the province of Ontario. So don’t come forward with a bill like this, a patronizing bill that says, “We have your best interest at heart,” but you don’t have the courage to put the word “shall” in the bill.", "When it comes to climate impacts, the climate crisis, climate change, I still am not 100% sure they think that’s real. I mean, they might say it, but their actions would say otherwise. Does the government think that people are going to be at risk from climate change? Who knows? You certainly wouldn’t know it from this bill.", "Can we here on this side of the House—not the bizarro world, but here on this side of this House—acknowledge that our climate is changing? The world’s weather is changing fast, and the consequences, as we see around the world, are really devastating to people, especially to low-income people, people who can’t escape, people who are told to evacuate when there’s a hurricane, but don’t have the means to evacuate. They don’t have a car; they have nowhere to go. Who suffers the most impact? These are low-income people who are already struggling.", "So you would think, again, if this was a government that centred the concern and the well-being of the people of the province of Ontario, that they would take climate change seriously. In Canada, insured catastrophic losses have risen from around $456 million to approximately $2 billion last year, according to the Insurance Bureau of Canada. Ontario insured losses related to severe weather climbed to $1.2 billion in 2022 from $400 million. These are huge costs. These are big numbers. And who’s paying those insurance costs? We are. We either can’t get insurance, because we’re in a flood plain, or our premiums are going through the roof.", "A reliable energy plan, an actually responsible energy plan, would make sure the effects of climate change and extreme weather that we know are coming, that we actually see, are here. We saw it in Ottawa. We’ve seen it in other communities, the flooding. Would that these things were central to this bill, but that is not the case. Any credible, serious plan in the year 2024—we’re well into this millennium—would focus on non-emitting sources and stop the overreliance on gas as we’re all struggling to confront climate change.", "Also, this is a government that has put no money into adaptation. How are people now, with increased insurance costs, struggling to adapt their homes and businesses, struggling to adapt to flooding that they see impacting their mission critical systems—how are businesses dealing with their insurance costs? We know that the more extreme the weather gets, this will continue to degrade our infrastructure and will cost more money. Who’s going to pay for it?", "The FAO, in fact, said—well, the FAO had a number and it was extraordinary. The government looked at the cost and said that the problems we see are only going to get larger, including insurance costs, grocery costs and other related costs. So this was ignored completely in the plan. The government has continued to list gas as an option for the plan at the same time as the IESO says that they plan to use a lot less gas by the mid-2030s. So why not use efficiency now, why not use conservation now, and avoid building homes with gas for a future where we’re going to be less reliant on gas?", "So, very quickly in the one minute I have left—and I’m sorry I didn’t get to this—why is this government going down the path of the Liberals? There’s no government transparency, no accountability in this bill.", "I can tell you that when I first got elected, I sat on the Select Committee on Financial Transparency. MPP Robin Martin sat on that. We had many members here who sat on this committee and some of the things that they said were—Doug Ford called this the biggest political cover-up in Ontario history, which was Kathleen Wynne’s hydro plan. MPP Martin said, “Were your efforts motivated by fear, backlash at the ballot box?” We had the member from Sault Ste. Marie, Ross Romano, who said, “The purpose of our committee was to ask a lot of questions” that we “wanted answers to, and I’m confident we asked those questions.”", "Finally, Minister Fedeli, in fact, said—and this is one of the best quotes, if I can find it. Oh, Minister Fedeli said it’s not just about Liberal deficit but transparency and trust, and I agree. So why are you going down the same path has the Liberals? You saw where they ended. This bill lacks transparency and people don’t trust you in this province, especially when it comes to such a huge file." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "It’s now time for questions.", "I recognize the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Yakabuski", "text": [ "I want to thank the member for her comments on Bill 214, the Affordable Energy Act. She said a couple of things that took my attention. She first starts talking about—she admits and understands and accepts that the demand for electricity is going to grow exponentially here in the province of Ontario. Then she talks about that we have to have non-emitting sources, but I need to know where this party is on nuclear, because we already get the majority of our electricity from the nuclear fleet here in the province of Ontario. So if we’re not going to refurbish and build new nuclear here in the province of Ontario, including SMRs, how are we going to get to that point where we can actually supply the power that needs to power Ontario’s energy growth? I’d ask the member for that, please." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "There are a few things in there that I can agree with. How’s that? I’ve already admitted full on that our energy needs will grow in the province. Just the EV industry itself will require these kinds of investments.", "Also, friend of mine directed me to something called Gridwatch, which is really a quite fascinating app. It shows the mix of energy sources at any given hour in the province. For example, currently between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. on October 30, 48.7% of our energy came from nuclear, 18.1% from hydro and 8.8% from gas. So it’s in the mix. We’re going to need to rely on all of these sources of energy. We already do, but my question to you is, at what cost? People have already spent way more then they need to on this energy file, and you need to come clean with the costs." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "It’s probably my fault I missed it in the member’s speech, but I’d like to ask my honourable colleague from Hamilton West–Ancaster–Dundas whether she plans to vote for this bill at second reading?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Thank you for the question. We take our role here as parliamentarians very seriously. This is a bill, as I said, that’s touching on a very critical and important part of our future, and I would say the jury’s out. When you look at a bill here that has so many holes in it and is lacking in so many places, I would say that’s a decision that we need to take very seriously, and I would say, unfortunately, the experience that I had dealing with the Liberal legacy of when it came to your role and Kathleen Wynne’s role in the Fair Hydro scheme, that we’re still paying for—we’re still paying $7.5 billion a year to cover the cost of that plan. You would understand why we would take our decision very seriously, because it’s not our $7.5 billion that we have to spend every year for the Liberal cost of the hydro system. It’s the taxpayers.", "1440" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jill Andrew", "text": [ "Thank you to our member for a wonderful presentation.", "I’m interested in clean, safe, affordable energy. And in St. Paul’s, when we talk about climate change and we talk about saving our environment, making things easier for people in St. Paul’s or across Ontario, infrastructure is a really important part of that. I think that can help us in championing a lowering of our carbon footprint.", "In St. Paul’s we want to see the Eglinton Crosstown LRT completed. If we have good, safe transit that can get people from A to B, that actually gets thousands of cars off our roads along Eglinton, and that certainly would help us with the climate crisis, frankly, that we’re in.", "I think the question I have to the member really comes down to: What’s this going to cost? Do you have any concerns, to our member, that there seems to be no price tag attached to this project?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Do I look concerned that there’s no price tag attached to this bill? Oh, yes. I have serious concerns, and so I should. I’m glad you brought up the Eglinton Crosstown. Let’s look at the Ontario Line.", "So this was a project that was supposed to cost $9 billion and now it’s ballooned to over $20 billion, with no completion date in sight—absolutely no completion date in sight. And all we need to do, if we want to talk about transparency or lack thereof—let’s just look at Metrolinx. I know my colleague here reminds me how many times, how many VPs, how many presidents—" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "Too many." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Too many. They’re not transparent and the government hides behind them.", "This government will be accountable. They hide behind Metrolinx. Metrolinx hides from us. So when I talk about costs overruns, parting with the taxpayer dollars in this government, and lack of transparency and accountability, Ontario Line and Eglinton Crosstown jump out to me as two horrific examples that the government should be learning from." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Laura Smith", "text": [ "Through you, Madam Speaker, our government’s agenda is about an all-of-the-above approach to energy planning, including nuclear, hydroelectricity, energy storage, natural gas, hydrogen and renewables. Ours is choosing growth and affordability. Ours is vision-centred for the needs of the family, and we’re going to remain on this road relentlessly.", "So my question to you is: I listened very respectfully to your submissions, but I’m wondering what’s the tangible plan? What’s your tangible plan to real results and provide something for the community that actually is effective? Because this is our plan." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Thank you very much for the question. I would put the same question back to you: What is your tangible plan? Because it’s not before us. What is your costed plan? It is not before us. How much money do you expect the people of Ontario to pay for this plan? We do not know.", "We heard about SMRs as part of our future. When will they be online—10 years, 20 years? How much will those cost?", "These are significant investments in technologies that—I agree, we should be looking at all the technologies that can deliver affordable and reliable, but our continually relying on things like Enbridge and supporting Enbridge and forcing people to be on gas when they don’t want to—that would not be part of our plan. Our plan would include evidence-based planning, transparency, accountability, and it would be centred on the ability of Ontarians to pay their energy bills." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Question?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam", "text": [ "It’s always an honour to rise in this House. Thank you to the good member from Hamilton West–Ancaster–Dundas for her excellent presentation on Bill 214.", "We all know that climate change is before us. We recognize that governments have a responsibility to put forward a serious energy plan, one that actually meets the moment and the specific challenges of the day.", "I am very interested in making sure that our energy plan is driven by certain principles such as affordability, reliability and sustainability, and in this plan that the government has put forward, we’re seeing an erosion of that.", "So, my question to you, member, is, why? Why is the bill making it optional for the minister to put forward an energy plan as opposed to it being, currently, right now, a mandatory requirement? Can you speculate on that?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "I’m glad that you pointed that out. I mean, the fact that this government is not required to present a plan to the people of Ontario—they’ve taken away their responsibility to make sure that experts can look at this plan, that there were hearings so that people can weigh in on the impact. This government does not have all the answers.", "When it comes to energy, we have energy workers, experts in this field. We have the Professional Engineers Ontario who are on strike because they don’t trust your government’s reliance on evidence when it comes to the construction projects that you had before us.", "So I don’t have the answers to why. I can only speculate that this continues to be a government that doesn’t want to be accountable and that knows that whenever they need $100 billion or so, what are the taxpayers going to do about it? Nothing. They can’t. They’re not going to be able to do anything about it.", "My idea is that they don’t feel any compunction to be accountable to the people who elected them and to the people who pay their bloated salaries, and to the people who pay for their mistakes when they don’t consult the experts. Why? They could answer that better than I can. It’s crazy that all this power is centred in one minister’s office. It gives one minister so much power to direct energy planning in the—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "It is now time for further debate." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "I’m very happy to have the opportunity today to speak to an energy bill, Bill 214. I’m going to start by dispensing with two of the three sections of this bill, schedule 2 and schedule 3.", "Schedule 2 is about allowing the cost of new electricity infrastructure to go on, for example, the rate base, to reduce upfront costs of new homes, potentially, or electricity upgrades or connections for industrial power. These are the things that are needed. I’m glad to hear the minister speaking about distributed energy resources. That’s something that I haven’t heard about before. That is covered by schedule 2; it will be facilitated by schedule 2. So I’m glad that the minister is talking about that.", "Schedule 3 is about, I would say, to simplify, creating a separate, simpler regulatory regime to allow us to roll out electric vehicle chargers. We know that that’s something that’s in our future.", "My main concern with this bill is in schedule 1, about the idea of planning. I understand, I think, what the minister is trying to do when he calls it the “integrated resource energy plan,” because lots of different parts of our economy are connected by, or interact through, energy. Energy makes our economy run. This is why we’re trying to have an integrated plan.", "But we actually don’t have a plan. That’s my first concern. I think they have concepts of a plan, this government. Just to give an illustration for people who may be listening to me, when this government took power, they pulled out electric vehicle chargers and removed electric vehicle subsidies. But then they pivoted, a massive pivot, to electrical vehicle production. It’s going to be a big part of our economy going forward. I’m looking forward to that. But it just shows that the government didn’t really know what they were doing until a bit later. They didn’t have the plan.", "As I mentioned earlier, there was a long-term energy plan in 2017 that was put together inside the government, and it’s important to have a plan inside the government because—think about it—it’s not just power plants, transmission lines and the consumer of electricity. What policies you have about transportation affects energy. What policies you have about housing and where to put it, and what regulations you follow when you build housing, that affects energy. What policies you have about education and making sure we have skilled workers, that affects energy.", "1450", "They’re all tied together, so I understand why energy planning is best done inside the government and not with an outside agency that’s only, for example, focused on our electricity system. I’m glad that the government is returning to whole-of-government planning for energy.", "I do want to go back to the delays. I think the minister must realize that after this government has delayed for years, everything costs more. It could be turbines or fire engines, even, or school buses, transformers cost more. All sorts of heavy equipment cost a lot more.", "The United States has also passed the Inflation Reduction Act. It’s all about procuring a whole bench of renewable energy and other things to electrify their economy. But, because we delayed, we are behind them in line to buy things. Even Canadian energy experts have been hired away to work in the United States.", "The supply for heavy equipment is tight. If you talk to people in the industry, it is very tight. And the government’s delay in responding to future increases in electricity demand—and I have to say that the 2017—this is from the previous government—long-term energy plan has graphs in it which point out that energy demand is going to go up. It means Ontario, because we haven’t got started with a plan, are left to pay dearly for whatever is left on the store shelf, if I can draw that picture, when we start buying the infrastructure that we need to electrify the economy. The people who generate power or provide the hardware, they all know that.", "I’m going to move on from planning now and talk about the goals and objectives of this plan that is still to come. Because Bill 214 amends the Electricity Act, and when it amends the Electricity Act it eliminates any mention of climate change or greenhouse gases—just removes them. My message to the government is, “Hey, Conservatives, it’s okay to talk about climate change. It is a real danger. Maybe you don’t believe that, but it is a real danger.”", "It’s something that the government should be protecting us from. Maybe Conservatives don’t care so much about protecting people, but you can’t ignore climate change. This is something that we need to be protected from and the government has a very important role.", "I want to move on now to how the government will do the planning itself. Because in the existing Electricity Act the IESO, the Independent Electricity System Operator, which runs our electricity system, is given the role of creating implementation plans for the government’s what used to be called the long-term energy plan.", "This legislation changes that. The IESO is not going to be putting together implementation plans; instead, the Ministry of Energy will issue directives to the IESO. It’s kind of like what’s happening now. But they’re going to be issuing directives on this big, comprehensive plan that I think, if I understand the minister correctly—and I think what should happen—is going to incorporate the interaction of all sorts of parts of our government and of our economy that depend on energy.", "Is the government prepared with the expertise to prepare this plan and its implementation inside government? Because it’s got to be ready to give clear, granular directions to the IESO to carry out its plan.", "There is an advantage to having whole-of-government planning inside government. You get to think about how different parts of our economy interact. You can be sensitive to political considerations—we’re a democracy, after all. But I would like to know, and I don’t know because the minister hasn’t addressed this, how the government plans to avoid, if I could say it in a strange way, too much politics. I mean regulatory capture: How does this government plan to avoid regulatory capture, avoid too much influence of lobbyists over what the government’s plan is and how it implements it and what instructions it gives to the IESO to carry out this plan.", "Here’s another aspect of the same question: In the past, if you look at the Electricity Act, the goals and objectives of energy planning were technologically agnostic. In other words, it didn’t favour any particular technology as long as the objectives were reached—affordability, reliability and sustainability. This bill amends the Electricity Act so that some technologies are mentioned but others are not. For example, hydroelectric power just is not mentioned, but other technologies are mentioned. Why is that? Technology changes, economic conditions change, geopolitics change. Because we don’t know what’s going to happen in the future, we should always have a plan which lets the best technology win in the long term. It’s important to not let a political government just pick favourites.", "I want to give the minister some advice. I know the minister wants to look at all different parts of Ontario, but it’s also important to look outside of Ontario. For example, the minister has talked about Ontario being an energy superpower—that’s great—and he’s talked about exporting electricity. If you’re going to do that, then your integrated plan has got to look at what’s happening in New York, Michigan and Ohio, all three of these states that could be potential importers of electricity from Ontario. They have their own nuclear power mandates. They’re moving towards building nuclear reactors or reactivating old reactors, producing a lot more baseline power. They also have clean energy standards. In about 15 years, almost all of their electricity has got to be clean, no fossil fuel emissions. So we also have to plan for and ask the question: How is Ontario going to sell its nuclear baseload or fossil-fuel-generated electricity when surrounding customers like your New York, Michigan or Ohio are moving towards their own nuclear energy and clean energy standards? This big plan has got to take into account what other jurisdictions will do.", "A couple of housecleaning things at the end, if I may. I support the ability to finance the cost of new electricity infrastructure and having the flexibility, perhaps, of incorporating it onto the rate base. Whether it’s for homeowners or a neighbourhood that’s upgrading its grid to respond to electrification—or it’s some manufacturer that needs transmission to set up an operation in Ontario.", "I also support the rollout of electric vehicle charging infrastructure. It’s one of these things—it’s very important to try to avoid chicken-and-egg problems whenever you’re rolling out a new technology. We know that the future of personal transportation in Ontario is not going to be gasoline-powered vehicles, so the better, the more easily, the more cheaply we can roll out electric vehicle charging infrastructure the better, so I’m happy to support that.", "I hope I did not embarrass my honourable colleague from Hamilton West–Ancaster–Dundas a while ago by asking her how she’s going to vote for the bill, but, since I asked her that question, it’s only fair that I answer the question myself. I will be voting for this bill, not because I agree with it, but here’s the biggest thing: This bill does some things—we are running out of time to deal with climate change, and as we delay and delay it’s going to be more and more expensive to protect ourselves from climate change, so I’m happy to help this move on past second reading. I agree with this bill in principle. I look forward to the committee stage.", "I’ll challenge the minister here in the time that I have left. At committee stage, the minister has the intent of creating an integrated—that word, “integrated”—resource plan. This means listening to all sorts of different parts, not only of the government but of Ontario. I challenge this minister—I hope the government members here pass this on to the government—to not use time allocation on Bill 214 when it comes to committee. I challenge the minister to allow witnesses from all parts of our society, our economy, all parts of our province to come here—or maybe, we travel and talk to them in person and hear what they have to say. Because if it’s going to be really an integrated resource plan, let’s go and listen to people in all parts of Ontario about how they fit into Ontario’s energy economy, how they’re affected by other parts of our economy, so that we can really have some good public feedback and have a good integrated resource energy plan.", "1500", "That’s my challenge to the minister. I normally wouldn’t make it, but this government has time-allocated a couple of bills, I believe it’s Bill 194 and 197. I don’t want to see that happen to such an important bill as Bill 214." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "It’s now time for questions." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Yakabuski", "text": [ "Thank you to the member from Kingston and the Islands for his address today. I will start out by saying great news that you are going to support it. I don’t know if you speak for the other members of the independent Liberal caucus at this time, but I hope that’s the case.", "I hope in some way, it’s a kind of a confession. That, in fact, your Green Energy Act—which, you were not here and I accept that—" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Steve Clark", "text": [ "He supported it, though." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Yakabuski", "text": [ "Oh, I’m sure he did support it.", "But the Green Energy Act was the most egregious, misguided piece of legislation in Ontario’s energy history. Nothing led to a bigger crisis in electricity for the people of Ontario, who had to make the choices between heating and eating—and your former friend, George Smitherman, came across the aisle to me and said it was going to cost a dollar a month. Now that you have understood that we are looking forward to building Ontario, and giving Ontario the electricity it will need to support that bill, the Green Energy Act was wrong and you’re confessing." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "I love the questions from my colleague from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke—I hope I got the order right. It’s a beautiful riding. I used to live in the riding and last year, I went to Barry’s Bay a couple of times. I worked at Atomic Energy of Canada, as the member knows.", "Thank you for the opportunity to speak about the Green Energy Act. I’m going to attack one of the points that have been made over and over again, and incorrectly, I may say. When we pay 80 cents per kilowatt hour for the FIT contracts, you weren’t paying for energy. You were paying for establishing a supply chain for the racks for solar, figuring out how to do insurance, companies setting up business, utilities setting up the regulations—all sorts of things had to be worked out. That’s what we’re paying a small amount in the first year or so, for the first movers. I had a contract for solar power. I didn’t get that, because I came—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I want to add a chapter to my friend upriver from me—his question here, because I think the other thing I would like to hear my friend from Kingston reflect upon is not just the terrible decision to privatize the growth of renewable energy, which is effectively what my friends in the Liberals did with the microFIT and FIT programs.", "The other thing they did was privatize Hydro One. The Premier of the day said it was the only way we could responsibly build the green infrastructure—$1.8 billion. It was the only choice. But what we did with that decision is hamstring the ability of municipal utilities who, right now, are asking this government—they would like to have a decentralized generation of renewable power. Now, we’re dealing with the privatization—and I was shocked then, and I’m shocked now, to know that it was Liberal Party donors and cash-for-access fundraisers that have the biggest benefits.", "I’m wondering if the member could also reflect on the terrible legacy that left for those of us who care about the planet and want to build renewable energy." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "Thank you for the question from the member for Ottawa Centre. Actually, I’m quite proud that the private sector participated in building out renewable energy. For example, in Kingston, a lot of people got together and said, “Hey, you know what? When we start to have solar panels and wind turbines and other things like that, the people who work on the transmission lines, Utilities Kingston, are going to have to change their protocols, their training is going to have to be different.” So a bunch of people got together and put together a new training program that St. Lawrence College was able to deliver.", "There grew a whole community of people who are interested in solar energy, wind energy or geothermal energy—by the way, we just built a really nice apartment building in downtown Kingston using geothermal energy. I think that the private sector in Kingston did a great job of moving forward with our energy economy towards the 21st century." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "The Green Energy Act, in 2009, was introduced by an MPP at the time, Minister George Smitherman, and under the Liberal policy, municipalities were not allowed any say in whether or not energy projects were established in their municipalities. In fact, in my municipality, which at that time was Anderdon township, which was opposed to such projects—Anderdon township got amalgamated into Amherstburg. It was opposed to such projects, and they didn’t have a say. They couldn’t stop any project that was going to go ahead, and that led to things like solar panels being installed on agricultural land.", "My question to the member is this: Would he like municipalities to have the power to consent to these projects, or would he like to do what George Smitherman did, deny municipalities any say whatsoever?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "I now have an opportunity to respond to two things: solar power on agricultural land. There is new technology, and I hope this government thinks about the fact that technology is always changing.", "If you put solar panels in agricultural land—there is a whole field called agrivoltaics. For example, you may put solar panels out and you don’t get full sun, but there are certain things, like leafy vegetables that will grow bigger leaves when they’re not in direct sunlight. I think that this government should be looking at piloting agrivoltaic projects because there could be a lot of potential there. Don’t stick to just static policy because technology changes.", "I do think that we should be consulting communities. I was a community person working in energy. When the Minister of Energy was doing communications for Prime Minister Harper, I was working in community energy, and I like being consulted." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jill Andrew", "text": [ "The Liberal government cancelled two natural gas power plants, I learned: one in Mississauga and one in Oakville. Rumour has it these were cancelled for them to save political seats. They costed these two cancellations at about $230 million, but a final report from the Auditor General of Ontario actually found that the cancellations cost about $950 million, which, of course, was shouldered by ratepayers of the day. This was all caused by the Liberal government. This little stroll down memory lane, I guess, is really to highlight why we shouldn’t be politicizing energy planning.", "I ask the Liberal MPP from Kingston, how important is it that the PCs learn from the Liberals’ mistakes and act with full transparency on all energy plans and actually show us the numbers if clean, safe, affordable energy really is their goal? Essentially, we don’t want the PC government to take a page out of the Liberal government’s playbook. Why do you think that’s happening?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "I believe in learning from my own mistakes—no argument with me from learning from mistakes. But I will say that, yes, we do need numbers. One way that scientists sort of check somebody who puts forward something they haven’t really thought about is to ask about the numbers to force them to reveal about whether they’ve really thought about something they’ve proposed.", "This government says they have a plan, but they don’t actually have a plan. When that plan comes out, which they say is going to be next year, it better have a lot of definite numbers. All the government has now is just, as our presidential candidate south of the border has said, “concepts of a plan,” and that’s not enough." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "I want to follow up on my previous question. I understood from the member’s answer—he’ll correct me if I misunderstood—that he’s not entirely opposed to putting solar panels on agricultural land because, in certain circumstances, agricultural land and solar panels might actually produce some kind of vegetable, which the member talked about.", "If I have understood that correctly, then my question is this. If the member is not, at least under those conditions, opposed to putting solar panels on agricultural land, then the question is this: Should there be any prohibition whatsoever on putting solar panels on any agricultural land at all?", "1510" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ted Hsu", "text": [ "I think it’s very important to protect prime agricultural land, and I think solar panels are part of that. This is a point of, I think, major difference between myself and this Conservative government, which doesn’t seem to care about prime agricultural land. The greenbelt scandal is just a big example of that, where it seems that they don’t mind taking prime agricultural land and using it for development and not caring about the future, the long-term future, that the minister keeps saying that he’s thinking about.", "When I was in high school, I had a geography teacher. His name was Rick Price, and I owe him a lot because he talked about how we were losing prime agricultural land, back in the 1970s. A lot of that land is now called Mississauga, greater Toronto, so we’ve lost a lot of agricultural land. We’ve got to protect it." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "It is now time for further debate." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "I’ll be splitting my time with the member from Kitchener South–Hespeler.", "Speaker, there has been a lot of talk here about the Liberals’ record in energy, and we all agree. I remember, I was leading our party’s charge in the gas plant scandal, where a billion dollars was wasted, but I think back—more than energy, I just think back to where the province was under the previous Liberal government. They created a really toxic business environment that drove investment and jobs out of the province. They made a printed-and-delivered economic report decision to get out of manufacturing in Ontario. Six times in the opening of it, of their economic report—thankfully, it was their last economic report—they talked about how they wanted to get out of manufacturing. And the real reason, Speaker, was because they raised costs for manufacturers across the board, including energy costs, which, as you’ve heard throughout the day, skyrocketed under the Liberals by 300%.", "Our manufacturing capacity was hollowed out. Businesses were shuttered. Three hundred thousand manufacturing jobs were lost. Our auto sector was literally on the brink of collapse. All of this had to do with the fact that they raised energy by 300%. I’m looking across the aisle. I think there’s only one member from the NDP who was here back then in the days of this 300% increase. Were you here then?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Peggy Sattler", "text": [ "Yes." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "Oh, two members, then. I correct myself.", "We all well remember the days of 300%. I remember Xstrata Copper, up in Timmins. They were the single-largest user of energy in the entire province, and Xstrata Copper left, crossed the border into Quebec, took 450 jobs away from Ontario. It was a really tragic day, and they said, “We’ve had enough. We cannot afford energy here in Ontario.” They were sort of the canary in the coal mine of what was going to happen in Ontario. The fact that these manufacturers were leaving—and that’s the past.", "I said to you that the auto sector was on the brink of collapse. Think about Ontario and Australia, both heading over this auto cliff. Australia went down, gone from the auto business. They don’t make cars anymore. They decided to throw the towel in. When we got elected, we heard the devastating news from writers, news that announced in 2019 that global automakers planned to spend $300 billion and zero of it was coming to Canada.", "Again, the automakers here—I remember former Premier Wynne sitting next to then-chair of Fiat Chrysler and trying to ask him if he’s going to expand, and he looked at her and said, “Expand? We’re lucky if we even stay. You have made Ontario the most expensive jurisdiction in all of North America for energy and for doing business.” She pleaded with him again, and his answer was, “You’ve got to cut costs.” But they didn’t hear that. Instead, they just continued to increase costs. So we get to that point where Reuters announced this $300 billion and not a penny was coming to Canada.", "Premier Ford, our government, we stepped in, got into power, and we said, “Here’s what we’re going to do: We’re going to pull on every lever that we have to lower the costs for businesses.” One of the first things we did—I’ve said it in this House many, many times—was we reduced the cost of WSIB, what some people would call workers’ compensation, by 50%. That’s a $2.5-billion savings annually to businesses. The next thing we did is we put in what’s called an accelerated capital cost allowance—a pretty fancy way of saying you can write off your new equipment in-year. It’s a billion-dollars savings. Then, we reduced energy costs for industrial and commercial clients by an average of 16%. That is a $1.3-billion-a-year savings.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "Yes, there you go. The sound of one hand clapping; I love it.", "We look at our red tape reduction bills, which all of our caucus have put forth ideas and supported. It’s over a billion dollars in annual savings. Add it all up, Speaker, we’re now saving $8 billion a year. That has resulted in the attraction of tens of billions of dollars in the tech sector, over $5 billion in life sciences and an unprecedented, unheard of $46 billion in new auto and EV investments just over the last four years.", "To put that in perspective, here in Ontario, population 15 million, we’ve landed $46 billion. In the entire United States, they have landed $119 billion, which is an unbelievable comparison that we have that kind of might, that kind of manufacturing might, and that confidence. A lot of it has to do with our clean energy grid, the fact that we’ve lowered the cost of energy, as well as lowering the cost of doing business across Ontario", "You remember Reuters saying that we were getting zero, and I’ve just shown you that we’ve landed $46 billion? Well, Bloomberg has released their report that ranks us as the number one on their global EV battery supply chain rankings. So we went from zero to now number one in the world.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "Yes, that is clap-able. There you go.", "We’re dethroning China for the first time since the rankings were introduced. This is a new chapter and now we have Bill 214, the Affordable Energy Act, and that ensures that Ontario will have the energy capacity it needs to continue to drive this economic growth.", "Every time we’re around the world attracting a company, like the one we just announced at their brand new building in Woodbridge two days ago—we lured them here from South Korea—", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "Yes, here you go again.", "When we sit with these companies, we come back here in the Legislature, we meet with the Minister of Energy, we meet with the Minister of Mines and we meet with the Minister of Labour. We make sure that we have the right people for this company, the right minerals should they need it for this company. But really, do we have the energy for them in the area that we think they’re going to go in? We’ve always worked hand in glove. It is an all-of-government effort to be able to do that.", "Unlike the Liberals, who prioritized ideology over affordability and reliability when it came to energy, our government continues to ensure that we will be a global leader in clean, reliable energy, while keeping costs down for families, and we’ll leverage our competitive advantage in nuclear energy so that we can land even more job-creating investments across every corner of the province, Speaker.", "1520", "Today, there was an article in one of the southwestern papers that talked about our landing the $1.6-billion Asahi Kasei investment. The article said, and I’m going to have to quote: “Having access to 110 megawatts of electricity was on the must-have list” when choosing a site for this investment. Asahi also noted that they had “huge power requirements, and they wanted it to be green. A lot of the power sources in the US are not green ... and are still using a lot of ... coal.” They “wanted to stay away from that.”", "Speaker, that’s what we’re doing. That’s what this bill is all about." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Mr. David Smith)", "text": [ "I’m recognizing the member from Kitchener South–Hespeler." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Jess Dixon", "text": [ "Back in 2015, 2016, 2017—before that—I was working full-time as a crown, managing my career, and I had also just bought my first house in 2015, which was a little wartime fixer-upper. So I know that, technically speaking, back then, I would have been feeling the weight of my own hydro bills, as I was the one paying for them and taking care of the entire property myself.", "But here’s the thing: Even though I was indeed paying those bills, I wasn’t actually paying attention to hydro rates. Energy policy wasn’t something I was interested in. Politics, frankly, wasn’t something I was interested in. And even if it had been, it absolutely felt like something that was just so far out of my hands. It was something that I couldn’t change or influence, and so I had no reason to follow it.", "Fast-forward a few years to when I was elected and somewhat startled to find myself as a parliamentary assistant in the Ministry of Energy and I was immediately briefed on hydro rates, and I felt like a little bit of a fraud, having to learn about it, as I had never paid attention before. But what helped was realizing that my own background of feeling very disconnected from these issues actually put me in the same shoes as many other Ontarians.", "Politicians talk a lot about families and businesses when they talk about energy, and I, every so often—I know, technically, when we talk about families, we’re talking about households, but sometimes I like to hear politicians talk specifically about young adults, young Ontarians or single Ontarians. So I know that my feeling back then of not paying attention—even though it was such an incredible thing that it, frankly, brought the Liberal government down—means I’m not the only one that felt that way.", "So for people like me, people that were younger, young adults or single Ontarians now—even right now, we’re busy focusing on our jobs, our dogs, our dating lives, all while managing monthly expenses, and energy policy doesn’t exactly feel like a priority, as it just can be part of the background noise of politics. And yet, as Ontarians living under the previous government learned, that background noise can actually hit us pretty hard if energy rates get out of control.", "And that’s why I was sort of talking to this group of people specifically today, because it does matter to you. Hydro rates jumped something like 70% between 2008 and 2016, which, back then, really would have hit younger Ontarians and single adults that are living on single or entry-level incomes quite hard.", "So why does this bill matter to you? First, it’s going to keep your energy bills manageable and expected. That’s one of the most important parts of this act; it’s why “affordable” is in the name. It’s designed to keep those costs predictable, manageable. Ideally, when you’re paying your bills, we want it to be a boring chore and not a horror show. If you’re renting an apartment or have recently bought a home or even if, like many, you’re still saving for your own place, energy bills shouldn’t be the thing that makes your life unaffordable and, ideally, they shouldn’t be something that you even really have to worry about or think about. The goal is that you can just go about your life without suddenly getting hit with a surprise increase.", "The complex contracts and set rates that exist under the Green Energy Act made it nearly impossible for consumers to either influence or understand their rising bills, which I know led to a lot of frustration and distress.", "The second reason this act is important and relevant to this group that I’m talking about is, it is going to help those of you who are trying to get into the housing market. As we know, housing right now is already expensive enough, and the last thing that anyone needs are extra costs that are adding to the price of a new home. One of the ways that this act helps is by making that last mile of energy connections more affordable. For those who were less certain as me about what that was, when we’re talking about the last mile in energy, it’s the infrastructure that you need in order to bring power from the main grid to individual homes or an apartment complex. If you have a subdivision, it’s the power lines and the underground connections that are necessary to reach that new home.", "Traditionally, developers have had to cover those costs up front, which makes it a lot more expensive and those costs end up being passed down to the people that buy the homes.", "The act helps us by letting developers spread those last-mile costs over a longer period instead of front-loading the entire cost, the whole cost, onto a new project, which helps keep prices a little bit more manageable. Again, for those of us who are hoping to buy a place or just starting out in the market, those kinds of changes do make a big difference. They’re small and practical steps that may not grab headlines, but they do help in chipping away at the cost of housing.", "Fourth, another reason that this may help you, which I think we could talk about more is, it could help save your life or the life of somebody that you love. Here’s another reason why it matters to that group of people—because of how often nuclear is specified in this act, and that’s medical isotopes. Medical isotopes aren’t just any medical advancement, they are produced right in our operating nuclear power plants, plants that are already working to keep Ontario powered.", "To me, that’s one of the most fascinating and unique things about the energy file and energy profile in Ontario, and it should be top of mind for many people in the House today as we have the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council visiting us.", "Ontario is actually a world leader in producing medical isotopes, thanks to our nuclear plants. They’re essential in modern medicine for sterilizing equipment and for unique cancer treatments. Again, for young adults, this isn’t just about an opaque power bill. This is about something that’s contributing to putting Ontario on the world stage as a leader in medical isotope technology. These techniques and procedures and isotopes could save your life, they could save the lives of your parents and keep it incredibly relevant.", "Another reason, again, for that group of people is EVs. I know a lot of people who have bought—well, in my circle particularly—Teslas, but they’re buying Teslas because they’re having to commute incredibly long distances to work because they can’t afford to buy a house where they actually work, and it’s cheaper to live somewhere else and commute, which is great, but you can really only make EVs work if you have reliable ways to charge them and you know where to find places to charge them. This act, of course, clears away a lot of the red tape about EV charging stations, making it faster and easier to expand our infrastructure.", "For people that are looking for sort of direct and practical ways to cut transportation costs but still have to commute by vehicle, this is again an important aspect when it comes to making EVs of all types a viable choice for people buying their next car.", "Also, this act is, to me, a great example of good government policy, and it’s exactly the type of thing you should expect from your government. Again, as somebody younger, somebody on your own, if there’s one thing that I’ve learned in my role as an MPP, a parliamentary assistant and a politician, it’s the importance of consulting experts.", "1530", "The Affordable Energy Act isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. It’s built from listening to people who understand the realities of energy policy inside and out. It’s the product of speaking with energy economists, industry leaders, stakeholders and regular people that deal with these challenges every day. I believe that the extensive consultations are why this act does include everything from nuclear energy to renewables, like wind and solar. It’s ultimately about making energy affordable and sustainable, which takes insights from all across the field.", "Again, ultimately, why does this act matter? It’s because the purpose of this act is to make—energy is something that ideally, if you don’t want to, you don’t really have to think about. If you don’t know that much about energy policy, that’s fine. The idea is that you don’t need to worry about it. It’s set up so that you can just live your life without worrying that your hydro bill will suddenly jump.", "So again, ultimately, this is about building a more stable and affordable Ontario so that your energy costs don’t sneak up on you. If you’re trying to get your first place, or save, or just manage monthly costs, this act is here for you, and it’s about creating a foundation for affordable living in Ontario so people can focus on the things that matter to them." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "It’s time for questions." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Lise Vaugeois", "text": [ "My question is for the Minister of Economic Development. When you did the contract for the Ontario Line, which went to Hitachi, you lowered the Canadian content requirements from 25% to 10%.", "Can you please explain why the government is investing less in Ontario manufacturing?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "I’m not sure what that has to do with the energy bill, Speaker. But I’d be happy to share with the member the various terms of the contract and the fact of how much construction is being done here by Ontario workers, how much concrete, how much steel is being purchased, so that the overall contract has a huge Ontario spend and a huge Ontario build. All of that, I recall in this Legislature, the then Minister of Transportation outlining in great detail the benefits to Ontario companies for that contract. But again, I’m not sure what that has to do with this, but I hope that helps." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Yakabuski", "text": [ "I thank the members for their participation in today’s debate. I do want to ask the minister: Look, you’re somewhat responsible for changing the game with regard to electric vehicle and electric battery production here in the province of Ontario. As a result of that, that is contributing to what we know is going to be a tremendously increasing demand on electricity in this province, which the IESO has said is going to be 75% by 2050.", "Now, to get there, is it possible to even dream of getting there without expanding our nuclear fleet here in the province of Ontario that currently always provides over 50% of our power? Without expanding and refurbishing our nuclear fleet, can we even get there?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "Thank you for an energy question; I appreciate that.", "I would say every single contract that we have signed, we have made very certain that the energy that will be required to supply to those businesses is either here or coming. You simply cannot do that without expanding our nuclear fleet.", "We are so proud when we’re overseas, and we boast, that we are the first G7 country and jurisdiction, here in Ontario, to be providing small modular reactors—one is under construction; three more are planned. Around the world, that is just absolutely amazing news because the companies fully understand that the province of Ontario and the people of Ontario are absolutely committed to bringing the right amount of nuclear energy." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Lise Vaugeois", "text": [ "The minister talked a lot about different contracts and what went into them, which is where my other question came from. It is on the record that the content requirement was lowered from 25% to 10%.", "Be that as it may, I’m interested that the minister of economic development often brags about cutting WSIB payments by 50%, and yet we know that there are so many injured workers who are forced onto ODSP when they should be covered by WSIB. It’s a real question to me whether that is a—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Sorry. I’m going to ask the member to have her questions relate to the topic we are debating this afternoon." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Lise Vaugeois", "text": [ "The minister himself, in his notes on this topic, referred to the WSIB, so that’s where it’s coming from." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "I apologize to the member, and I ask the minister to respond." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "Thank you very much, Speaker.", "Certainly, I can respond to yet another type of question. WSIB premiums to businesses have been reduced by 50%, which saves the business community $2.5 billion. However, not one change has been made to the benefits of the beneficiaries. Only the premiums are reduced. The benefits have not changed, Speaker." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Laura Smith", "text": [ "I really appreciated both the conversations that were happening from both the member and the minister. I was very intrigued by the minister’s conversation about Ontario’s positioning versus Australia’s just a few years ago and how we were rated as a province.", "I did want to thank him for coming to my area and helping assist on a $155-million investment on Hanon, for a compressor component that has to do with expanding the EV sector. We’re really excited about this. It’s going to generate an economy, and jobs and expansion in our province.", "How do you envision these enhancements in our community growth making Ontario an even more attractive place to live and work? Because it feels like we’re on the brink of some really positive opportunities." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "I want to correct something I had said earlier in my speech. The dollar volume we are at in EV and auto is $45 billion. I was thinking of a couple of great announcements that are coming up when I said a new number, so I have foreshadowed some great news coming to the people of Ontario.", "On that note, that’s really what it’s all about: the fact that we’ve got this clean energy here in Ontario. Think about our competition in a battery plant. They could go to Kentucky, except it’s only 6% clean energy; they could go to Indiana and get 7% clean energy; or they can come here to Ontario and get over 90% clean energy. It’s 94% when we were looking at it with Volkswagen. The fact is that those companies can purchase the clean energy credit to make a 100% clean-energy battery. This is very, very key. Our clean energy is such a massive supporting factor when we are luring these businesses to Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Peggy Sattler", "text": [ "My question is to the Minister of Economic Development, Job Creation and Trade. I appreciated his comments about the history that we both experienced in this place under the previous Liberal government and the disastrous financial impact of the cost of the Liberal government’s politicized energy policies or the billion dollars that was spent on the gas plant scandal.", "The members across the way have talked about the importance of transparency and using evidence, so my question is: Why does Bill 214 then give the minister and the Lieutenant Governor in Council more power to direct energy system planning and policies bypassing the independent OEB and the public consultation processes that the OEB oversees?", "1540" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "We really do both recall those days. I chaired our party’s role in the gas plant scandal. We saw what happens when you put solar power at 80 cents a kilowatt hour and sell it for eight cents, at the time; when you go out in the market and attract wind power and pay them 26 cents.", "The very, very next thing they had to do was build these gas plants to back up for the days that the wind didn’t blow and the sun didn’t shine. For political purposes, the then government cancelled the billion-dollar contract, told the Legislature it was $230 million. We know that that was not correct. We got the Auditor General involved, proved that it was a billion dollars in terms of the actual costs, and were able to save the taxpayer that kind of money." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Billy Pang", "text": [ "Thank you to the minister for his presentation earlier, mentioning about affordability. While the previous government worked so hard to make our lives unaffordable, may our minister share more with us how this bill can help us to live a more affordable life?" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "In 10 seconds, Minister." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Victor Fedeli", "text": [ "In those 10 seconds, I would also say that the member from Hamilton West–Ancaster–Dundas talked about the debt-to-GDP at 40%. I would suggest she and others look at the document that came out today, on page 3 and page 8. Her statements were incredibly inaccurate." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "It’s now time for further debate." ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "It is my pleasure to add a few thoughts to Bill 214, An Act to amend various energy statutes respecting long term energy planning, changes to the Distribution System Code and the Transmission System Code and electric vehicle charging.", "I will take them in reverse, as in I will start to talk to schedule 3, the amendment regarding the electric vehicle charging, because those comments will be quite short. Basically, with the amendment in Bill 214, they would give themselves—the minister, Lieutenant Governor—more power to direct energy system planning and policies, but it would exempt the distribution and retailing of electricity for electric vehicle charging from application of the Electricity Act, the Energy Consumer Protection Act and the Ontario Energy Board Act. I have a problem with that. The Energy Consumer Protection Act needs to be reinforced, not taken away.", "I will give you an example. My sister drives an electric car. My sister lives in Quebec, just across the bridge from Ottawa. In Quebec, they are guaranteed a charging station every 30 kilometres if they’re in town, maximum 50 kilometres if you’re outside of a big centre. The province owns the charging station, and the cost of charging your electrical car is basically the cost of the power that you use when you charge your car. Everybody who has the app knows where it is etc.", "My sister came and visited me in Ontario while I was at Queen’s Park, so she came to my apartment. I rent a place at Bay and Bloor. There are charging stations in the building where I live, in the parking which is underneath the building, so she drove her car down. She had driven from about Ottawa—as I say, she was just across the bridge—to my apartment here in Toronto. She recharged her car while we were going out for supper and having a good time. I asked her, “How much does it cost compared to buying fuel? How much does it cost?” It cost her $24.30 to recharge her car. She said that the same charge in Quebec at any charging station would have cost her about $4.30. There’s a $20 add-on. The charging station in my building is privately owned. They charge whatever they want, and what they wanted was $20 more than what it really costs to charge her car.", "When I see, in schedule 3, that schedule 3 exempts the distribution or retail of electricity for electric vehicle charging from the application of the Electricity Act, from the application of the Energy Consumer Protection Act, then I’m wondering, next time my sister comes and visits me, if this bill has gone through, is she going to pay 40 bucks to charge her car in the charging station in the basement of the apartment where I rent? Because what we are doing is taking away any oversight, any accountability, any consumer protection.", "Let’s face it, if your car has run out of energy—you have an electric car and the battery is dead—you will pay whatever they charge to charge it again, otherwise, you’re stuck there, your battery is dead. You need to—one time with my sister, she needed to go back home, see her husband, her kids, her grandkids, whatever.", "If you have no consumer protection in place, what you do you figure will happen? I can tell you what will happen. In northern Ontario, in my riding, I’m really proud to say that I now have one charging station in all of my riding. I’m the seventh biggest riding in Ontario. Everybody in my riding drives because we have no public transit, and we have one charging station at the watershed. We’re really proud. We’re one ahead of where we were, so we now have one. I don’t think that’s enough. There are 84,000 people who live in Nickel Belt, and we cover, I don’t know, 550 kilometres from south to north. Anyway, we need more than one.", "If there is no consumer protection, what keeps this one charging station from charging you $100 to charge your car? You have no choice. The next charging station is 300 kilometres north or about 250 kilometres south in Sudbury or in Timmins. We need consumer protection. Why would you do something like this? How can you on one side make investments to bring electric vehicle production and battery production and all of this in Ontario, but at the same time, leave Ontarians who own electric vehicles at the mercy of for-profit companies who will charge what the market can bear, the exact same way that gas companies charge what the market can bear? In my riding, the closer you are to a mine, the higher the price of gas. Why? Because miners make good money, drive big trucks and need gas.", "I go 50 kilometres west of my riding toward Espanola, and usually the price of gas is about 20 cents cheaper. I go about 50 kilometres east of my riding to Sturgeon Falls, and usually the price of gas is about 40 cents, sometimes 50 cents cheaper than what we pay in Nickel Belt. It’s not because of transportation. It’s not because of tax. It’s because they sell at what the market can bear and apparently, in Nickel Belt, we can bear a high market, so they charge us.", "We need consumer protection. We need it for gasoline, but we also need it for electric vehicle charging stations. I hope the members on the other side will consider making amendments to schedule 3 of Bill 214, because to actively say in the bill that you will exempt the distribution and retailing of electricity for electric vehicle charging stations from the Energy Consumer Protection Act means that there is nothing left to protect consumers from being gouged by whoever owns those charging stations.", "1550", "This is wrong. We want Ontarians to buy those new vehicles that are going to be built in Ontario, made in Ontario. The batteries will use the minerals from where I’m from. All of this falls apart if you go to recharge your vehicle and you’re charged 100 bucks for something that would have cost you $4.30, had you been across the bridge in Quebec to do the exact same thing. I hope the government will consider making changes.", "The other thing I want to talk about has to do with the schedule for distribution. That’s schedule 2. Schedule 2 amends the Ontario Energy Board Act to allow for the Lieutenant Governor to make regulations to amend the electrical distribution system code and the transmission system code with respect to cost allocation and cost recovery etc.", "Why I’m interested in schedule 2 is that I have this beautiful community in my riding called Biscotasing. Biscotasing has been there since—I think it was first created around 1800. It’s on the Budd train—I think you know this, Speaker—a little train that goes through northern Ontario. It has been there for a long time. It is beautiful. This is on the shore of Lake Biscotasi. They are off the grid. So although it’s a community that has been there for a very long time—you go up Highway 144, you go to the east of Highway 144 and all the little communities, Shining Tree, Westree, the watershed, they all have electricity. You go west of Highway 144, at the watershed, you have Iamgold, a brand new mine that is mining gold and the name itself says it.", "So hydro was able to increase the distribution. There’s extra power coming from Timmins all the way to Westree, from Westree all the way to Iamgold, the mine sites and all of this because they use a ton of electricity. A little parentheses: Everything there is automated. There’s those huge trucks, like three times my height. They are all self-driven; they are all electric trucks. It’s amazing.", "Anyway, all this to say that they use a lot of electricity for the mining of gold at Iamgold at Côté Lake. They were able to bring electricity to the mine. There’s 1,800 people that work there. They sleep in bunkers—that’s another story, but they were able to bring electricity.", "Biscotasing on the same side, on the west side, it’s very close to the new mine, but, in 2024, a community that is in between Sudbury and Timmins, where we have the poles, they have phones and the lines are all there, but they’re still off the grid? How could that be? How could it be that, in 2024, in a community that’s not that far away, that has hydro lines going by, we are not able to get them connected to the grid?", "Schedule 2 amends the Energy Ontario Board Act to allow the Lieutenant Governor to make recommendations to amend the electrical distribution system code and the transmission system code: It will be even less likely that the good people of Biscotasing will be able to be connected to the grid. This is Ontario. This is 2024. No offence to the member from Kiiwetinoong who has more than 12 of his communities off the grid—from Biscotasing, if you go up a little wee bit, you will see the transmission line going by. It’s not that far. It’s feasible. If Bell Canada was able to bring the telephone in, why is it that Ontario Hydro has not brought electricity? Now it will be even harder. We are working really hard to try to bring electricity. It will be even harder to get that done. So have I got some reservations? I’m not opposed to the end goal of what the bill is trying to do. We want affordable energy in my riding, like in everywhere else.", "I can tell you that the biggest energy user in all of Ontario is in my riding. We do use a lot of electricity. It is Glencore. Glencore is the second-biggest mining company in Ontario; Vale is the biggest one that everybody knows. Glencore is the one located in Falconbridge. The smelter at Glencore is run with electricity. At Vale, they use some electricity, but they also use natural gas. They use other forms of power to do the smelting.", "Smelting is when you bring the temperature of the rocks to thousands of degrees, to melt the rocks so you can get the ores, the nickel, the gold, everything else out of it. We have two of those in Sudbury, one run by Vale, one run by Glencore. Glencore runs its smelting operation with electricity only. They are the biggest electricity user in all of Ontario. So do they care about affordable energy? Yes, they do, because for every one cent per kilowatt more that they pay—they showed me the math and everything—it turns into millions of dollars more for them.", "Do they care about an Affordable Energy Act? Yes, absolutely. Are they afraid that Ontario won’t be able to continue to supply power at a price they can afford? Yes, absolutely. Mining is a competitive business. They sell nickel on the international market, but you still have to be competitive in order to do this. They do extract other minerals as well, not solely nickel, but I’m telling you this because this is something that matters to northern Ontario an awful lot.", "Then I will talk about schedule 1. I told you I would go “3, 2, 1.” Schedule 1 is where the minister “may”—or may not—“issue an integrated energy resource plan setting out and balancing the government ... goals and objectives” that respect various listed energy matters. We always had a long-term energy plan in Ontario. It was mandated by law that the government of the day had to have it. Now, rather than the bill saying that there “shall” be a long-term energy plan, it has been changed to “may ... issue an integrated energy resource plan.”", "Energy is something very important. It is also something that costs a lot for each and every one of us; for every small, medium or large business. A lot of them look at the long-term plan to decide if they will do an upgrade to the smelting operation, to the crushing, to the milling etc. Now, if this is gone, it’s always the same. Businesses need long-term plans in order to be able to make investments. That often takes a long time to put into place—not only a long time, but a lot of money.", "Now, if we see that those are going to be taken away, that brings insecurity to some very important businesses in northern Ontario—as I say, some of them; one is the biggest electricity user in our entire province. The other mining operators—and I have many through Nickel Belt; there are mines all over Nickel Belt—are all big electricity users that are able to raise money, most of them through the stock market and through other means, to do long-term projects based on long-term energy plans because the cost of electricity is a huge, huge factor in whether the mining operation will be successful or not successful, as in bringing revenues to the shareholders. It takes a lot of money to open up a mine. It takes a lot of money to operate a mine. One of the big costs is the cost of energy.", "1600", "We have been able, in my riding, to see expansion of mining, upgrading through the Clean AER Project at Vale, through all-electric new mines that are being built so that you don’t use diesel on the ground anymore. Diesel particles are really hard on people’s lungs. Once you bring electric vehicles on the grounds, it’s a lot safer for the people who work there and it’s a lot easier to keep the air safe to breathe. But all of those investments are based on a long-term plan, and now we have a bill that says the minister “may,” when it used to be the minister “shall.”", "I realize that I only have a few seconds left on the clock. I wanted to talk about the availability of heat pumps in my riding. We don’t have natural gas. We heat with oil; propane, if you are able to get propane delivery; or electricity. When the bill goes from $700 to $1,000 a month because you’re heating with electricity, having a heat pump makes a huge difference.", "Everybody is wondering why is it that certain areas of Ontario have support to make the transition to heat pumps, and other areas of Ontario don’t have? But you know what, Speaker? If you put the map as to who is represented by a PC MPP rather than an NDP, it’s almost the same map as to who gets access to the support for a heat pump and who doesn’t. I will stop there." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Yakabuski", "text": [ "I want to thank the member for Nickel Belt for her address today. We know more about Nickel Belt today than we did yesterday and that’s always good, to have that opportunity.", "I do want to ask the member—because she talked a lot about the energy demand at Glencore. We understand that that facility is a massive consumer of electricity. But your party has been somewhat conflicted in my time here. I know you were here when the Green Energy Act was passed as well. Our plan, through this Affordable Energy Act, is about significantly increasing our penetration of nuclear—and the expansion of our nuclear fleet, both through refurbishment and new build. We’re talking about an electrification all across Ontario. You’re talking about heat pumps. Heat pumps will use electricity.", "Where do you stand on our increase and our expansion of nuclear here, in the province of Ontario, to be able to supply and provide that power for Ontario’s future?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "We have been using nuclear power in Ontario for a very long time. It supplies more than half of the electrical power that is presently available to Ontarians. The Affordable Energy Act has to be—affordability has to be part of this.", "I have yet to see—and I don’t think any of us have seen—a plan from beginning to end that would show us, “Here is how much it costs for infrastructure. Here’s how much it costs for running this. Here’s how much it costs for the waste.” None of us have seen this.", "I’m a New Democrat. I want to make sure that we make decisions that are fiscally responsible. Show me a costed plan that will say what you’re about to do that will bring us affordable energy. We are all for affordable energy." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Sol Mamakwa", "text": [ "Meegwetch. Thank you. I know that the bill emphasizes the prioritization of nuclear power generation and meeting future needs in Ontario. The First Nations in the Land Defence Alliance are concerned about the possibility of a nuclear waste facility being built near Ignace, Ontario, without their consent.", "Are you aware of any commitment from this government that can help upholding the right to free, prior informed consent of First Nations as set out in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "I so wish that I could say yes to that question, but I can’t. A month ago, we had this meeting at Nairn Centre. Nairn Centre has a mine waste depot that has uranium in it, and the Ministry of Transportation was planning to bring more naturally occurring radiating material to the dump. They held a public meeting. At the public meeting they said they had consulted with all of the First Nations. Then the First Nations chief—I forget her name, it’ll come to me—came to the microphone and said, “I have been the chief for the last 12 years. You have never consulted me. You’ve never talked to me.”", "Behind her was another chief from a First Nation that was there who said, “How can the Ministry of Mines and the Ministry of Transportation who were there say that they consulted with them when they didn’t know they were in the room?” There were like hundreds of people. They came to the microphone and said, “You have never consulted with us.” It was a duty to consult that was not honoured, and it was said in a public forum by two of the chiefs that were impacted by this—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. David Smith", "text": [ "I want to thank the member for Nickel Belt. My question is, how can the opposition claim to be part of the cure about affordable housing, cost of living, helping families put food on the table, yet turn around and oppose this bill that will do exactly that?", "For the people of Ontario, do they truly believe they can talk about affordability while standing in the way of policies that will lower energy costs, support economic growth and put more money in the pockets of Ontarians? How can they reconcile them with their action which would do nothing but hurt the very people they claim to stand up for? Where is the plan to deliver real tangible results for the people of Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "We have a responsibility as legislators to make sure that we have accountability, that we have transparency, that we protect the public. There is such a law right now that is called the Energy Consumer Protection Act. It exists exactly for this, so that it helps make life affordable. It helps make sure that all of the private, for-profit players within the energy system are held to account but, in this bill, in schedule 3, it will exempt the distribution and retailing of electricity for electric vehicle charging from the Energy Consumer Protection Act.", "Do we want the charging station? Yes, we do, but there needs to be accountability. There needs to be transparency, and they need to be kept under the Energy Consumer Protection Act, otherwise the vehicle charging stations may charge you more than it is to fill up your truck with gas—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "That’s how you protect people." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "I recognize the member for University–Rosedale." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Jessica Bell", "text": [ "Thank you so much for your presentation. I was curious about what you were saying about heat pumps and how heat pumps would change people’s electricity bills in your riding. Could you talk a little bit about heat pumps and whether this bill addresses that and what you’d like to see this government do?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "Absolutely. I represent a northern rural riding. There are 33 little communities in Nickel Belt. None of them are big enough to have a mayor, an election or anything. They have a local services boards. They’re small; they’re small northern communities. We don’t have natural gas. We heat our houses with electricity. If you’re lucky enough and the truck is able to come and deliver propane or oil, you do that.", "1610", "People care about the environment. They know that electrical heating will be better—less greenhouse emissions and all of this—but to have a heat pump installed in your home is very expensive. But once you have it, you will go from $1,000 a month in electricity to heat your home to $200 a month in electricity to heat your home. It makes a huge, huge difference. They would like to have access to a little bit of help. You’re talking people on fixed income who’ve owned their homes for a long time. It would be a game-changer." ] }, { "speaker": "The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Donna Skelly)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Laura Smith", "text": [ "Through you, Madam Chair: We were talking about costs. According to the OEB, nuclear is 10.1 cents per kilowatt, gas is 11.4 cents per kilowatt and wind is 14 cents per kilowatt. So nuclear—obviously the most efficient and cost-effective—is a positive step. We talked about it being clean; nuclear is zero emissions. Do you support nuclear expansion?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeFrance Gélinas", "text": [ "We want affordable energy for all. We’ve had nuclear energy in Ontario forever, before I was born and probably after I will be gone. It is part of what we have.", "Moving forward, we really have to cost things out. You will remember—I don’t know if you will, but I remember on my electricity bill—having it added on, because the building of the Candu nuclear cost a whole lot more than what had been set forward. Costs doubled, actually. So if you move forward, you have to have a good fiscal plan to show that this is how much it’s going to cost, and you’ve done the work and you’ve done the planning to make sure that you get to this. None of this has been done so far.", "Report continues in volume B.", "", "", "", "", "" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "We’re going to go to further debate." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "I’m pleased to rise in the House today to speak about the Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "No plan. No plan." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "To the member from Mushkegowuk–James Bay: If he would listen for a second, he’d hear about our plan for reducing gridlock across the province.", "As we know, gridlock across the province is at an all-time high. Drivers in Ontario are spending more and more time stuck in traffic each and every day.", "Speaker, we have the highest commute times in North America. The Highway 401 commute times are worse than commute times in the greater Los Angeles area in California, which has almost double the population of Toronto. Our government, under the leadership of Premier Ford, recognizes that this is unacceptable. That is why we are doing everything we can to focus on reducing those commute times for drivers.", "Ontario welcomes over 200,000 newcomers every single year. The greater Golden Horseshoe will have a population of almost 15 million people by the year 2051. Our government recognizes that the requisite infrastructure must be in place to support this growth. Change is needed now, not only to alleviate the current gridlock issues, but to prepare the province for the future.", "Our government has been listening to countless drivers who have been sending a loud and clear message that they are spending too much time stuck in gridlock, and those drivers are struggling to make ends meet. By taking steps to build highways faster and make driving easier and more affordable, the government can offer relief as soon as possible.", "Speaker, this proposed legislation aims to build on the success of the Get It Done Act. That bill received royal assent this past May, and it ushered in a whole host of measures designed to accelerate the construction of key infrastructure and save Ontarians money.", "Thanks to the Get It Done Act, our government is continuing to cut red tape and get shovels in the ground sooner on priority projects like Highway 413, which could save drivers at least 30 minutes each way—Speaker, that’s an hour a day to be with their families—during rush hour.", "Since our government has taken office, we have made a promise to the people of Ontario to get it done in this great province, again, by proposing new legislation. That’s what the Get It Done Act is accomplishing, and that is what the Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act, if passed, would build upon. These two acts, in tandem, will deliver incredible results for the people of Ontario.", "This act, if passed, would help us build highways faster and make it easier for people and goods to get where they’re going. On that point, our government is spending close to $28 billion over the next 10 years to expand and repair the highways, roads and bridges that connect Ontarians to housing, to jobs and to other opportunities. That includes 593 rehabilitation projects and 42 expansion projects that will help get people moving across this great province. This year alone, we are committing $3.9 billion to repair and expansion projects so drivers can reach their destinations quickly and safely.", "The Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act would create a new Building Highways Faster Act. This potential act would allow the province to designate priority highway projects, similar to how the Building Transit Faster Act allows us to designate priority transit projects. This would be a massive help to our efforts, and it would allow our government to accelerate the construction of priority projects such as Highway 413, the Bradford Bypass and the Garden City Skyway bridge.", "The Building Highways Faster Act would give the province regulatory authority to facilitate 24/7 construction for these priority highway projects. Furthermore, it would position us to deliver quickly on the projects that matter most to everyday Ontarians, as the province would have the authority to request timely access to infrastructure owners’ asset information so work moves forward without unnecessary delays. Additionally, it would streamline property expropriations and create new penalties for obstructing field investigations and taking possession of land the crown owns.", "This potential legislation would ensure that we're doing everything in our power to ramp up construction so we can get Ontarians out of gridlock and keep our economy moving. This isn’t to mention the massive amount of time that it would save Ontarians on their daily commutes, granting them more time to spend with their families and with their friends. We are doing everything possible in our ongoing mission to provide transportation infrastructure that will serve Ontarians for generations to come.", "Too many commuters in the greater Toronto-Hamilton area are all too familiar with the frustration of being stuck in traffic. I experience it myself every day, driving from Brantford–Brant to Queen’s Park. Just last week, going home, two days in a row there was an accident on the 403 that cost me an extra 45 minutes away from my family.", "If I leave this building any time close to rush hour—and I’m sure the member from Niagara can confirm—if you leave here after 2 o’clock in the afternoon or before 7 o’clock, you’re just going to be sitting parked on the expressway. It’s bumper-to-bumper, Speaker. I’ve taken University down to the Gardiner before and it’s taken an hour to get there.", "The people of this province love living here because this province grants them opportunity. It grants them an incredible quality of life. That’s what people enjoy about Ontario. They do not deserve to sit in traffic, wondering if they’ll make it home with time to see their spouse, to play with their children or to care for their loved ones.", "Something like the Highway 413 will alleviate this pressure. So to ensure we start construction as soon as possible, the Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act would exempt Highway 413 from the Environmental Assessment Act. Instead, this act would create a new accelerated environmental assessment process for the project. Early work for Highway 413 could proceed before the accelerated environmental assessment is completed, ensuring that shovels get in the ground as soon as possible.", "With that said, we will continue to apply stringent environmental oversight and fulfil our duty to consult Indigenous communities as we move forward to build Highway 413.", "As part of the accelerated environmental assessment for Highway 413, the Ministry of Transportation will prepare an environmental impact assessment report. This report provides a comprehensive summary of baseline environmental studies conducted for the Highway 413 project. The primary objective of these studies is to identify potential environmental impacts associated with the construction and operation of Highway 413.", "In addition, the report outlines recommended measures to mitigate, to minimize or to avoid these identified impacts, ensuring that the project aligns with sustainable development practices and environmental protection standards.", "The Ministry of Transportation will engage in consultations with municipalities, Indigenous communities and the public to review and discuss the findings of this report. This collaborative approach will allow for a broad range of perspectives and insights to be considered, ensuring that community values and environmental concerns are incorporated into the highway’s planning and design process.", "By gathering and carefully assessing this feedback, the ministry aims to develop a project that respects local needs, that prioritizes environmental stewardship and that aligns with the interests of all stakeholders involved.", "Furthermore, the Ministry of the Environment, Conservation and Parks will review this report to confirm we have assessed Highway 413’s potential environmental effects and committed to implementing appropriate protections.", "This solution represents the best of both worlds. We will not only accelerate construction of Highway 413, but we will achieve this acceleration while continuing to uphold strong environmental controls and standards. When completed, Highway 413 will provide a vital transportation link connecting the regions of York, Peel and Halton, stretching from Highway 400 in the east to the Highway 401/407 interchange in the west.", "Speaker, this new highway will allow drivers to save up to 30 minutes, as I mentioned before, per trip during peak rush hour periods, significantly reducing travel time. Time is an incredible gift that we have. It’s always in short supply and being able to see your family, to spend time with your loved ones for an extra hour a day is priceless. I don’t know how to put a price on that, Speaker.", "Imagine gaining back five additional hours every week—time that can be spent with family, with friends and on activities that bring joy and fulfilment. To be able to visit a mother in a nursing home or a grandmother—Speaker, that sounds pretty good to me. This is time that every Ontarian can benefit from, and it’s time that each and every Ontarian deserves. Worry not, Speaker, that dream will soon become a reality as work progresses on this new 52-kilometre 400-series highway.", "In addition to helping combat gridlock, Highway 413 will create up to 3,000 jobs during its construction. This includes heavy equipment operators, drilling and coring contractors, concrete and steelworkers, utility contractors, environmental specialists, laboratory technologists and safety inspectors.", "Construction of the highway is expected to contribute $400 million to Ontario’s real GDP each and every year of construction. That is why we are committed to taking bold steps to reduce commute times, attract substantial investment to our province and drive sustained economic growth that benefits all Ontarians.", "This truly is essential work, and it’s critical to our future prosperity as a province. That is why it must advance without delay to ensure timely realization of these benefits.", "Speaker, it is important to note that our highway expansion projects are not limited to southern Ontario. I am pleased to report that we’re well on our way to achieving our goal of widening more than 100 kilometres of the TransCanada Highway from Thunder Bay to Nipigon. To date, we have successfully completed seven sections of this significant project. Last summer, we achieved a major milestone by widening an 8.6-kilometre stretch of the TransCanada Highway from Ouimet to the Dorion East Loop, expanding it from two lanes to four.Additionally, we are making steady progress on widening Highway 17, with work advancing on the section between Kenora and the Manitoba border to enhance capacity and improve travel for all road users.", "1730", "Highway 17 is a strategic link in the TransCanada Highway system, with no alternate routes in the event of a collision or road closure. By widening this essential transportation corridor, we are not only cutting down travel times but also strengthening critical trade routes and fostering economic growth and enhanced safety across northern Ontario.", "For anyone covering long distances, whether that be a commercial driver or someone on a family road trip, having safe, reliable rest stops along the way is crucial. These stops provide a place to regroup and to recharge, promoting safer travel for everyone on the road. That is why we are carrying out the largest expansion of rest areas in the province’s history.", "In 2021, our government introduced a five-year plan to expand the province’s rest area network by building 10 new rest areas, rehabilitating 14 others and adding 165 new truck parking spaces for our ONroute locations.", "Speaker, I am so proud to represent a government that prioritizes safety on the road. This demonstrates our commitment to giving the trucking industry and drivers across Ontario a safe place to stop.", "We are making great progress to expand our rest area network. To date, our government has finished the construction of three new rest areas and successfully completed major improvements at seven other locations across the province. These upgrades include new parking, renovated washrooms and improvements to other amenities.", "Furthermore, during the summer, we started an expansion project at the Batchawana Bay rest area on Highway 17 north of Sault Ste. Marie. We’re adding newly constructed entrance and exit lanes, giving truck drivers all-season access to heated washrooms.", "We are also constructing a separate parking area with nine spaces for commercial vehicles. At these rest stops, drivers will benefit from free WiFi and brand new personal device charging stations.", "Finally, we’re adding underground infrastructure that will allow for electric vehicle charging stations into the future.", "These new and improved rest stops are a tangible commitment to our government’s desire to embrace innovation to improve traffic flow and road safety across all regions in Ontario.", "In addition to reducing gridlock and improving road safety through building more highways and rest stops, our government will also be tackling the issue of bike lanes in this act. It is clear that our government is committed to reducing gridlock and helping drivers reach their destinations more quickly in every way that we can. If the recently proposed legislation is passed, municipalities would need provincial approval before installing new bike lanes that reduce existing traffic lanes. Furthermore, municipalities would also be required to demonstrate that any proposed bike lanes would not negatively impact vehicular traffic flow.", "With many drivers currently facing significant congestion, our government aims to ensure that all Ontarians have access to a range of transportation options that facilitate efficient travel. The ultimate goal is to create a dependable and effective transportation network that reduces delays and minimizes congestion across the entire province of Ontario.", "With that said, under the recently proposed legislation, municipalities would be required to obtain provincial approval before introducing new bike lanes that reduce existing vehicle lanes, as I’ve said. Additionally, municipalities would need to show that these proposed bike lanes will not adversely affect vehicle traffic flow.", "The overarching objective is to establish a reliable and efficient transport network that minimizes delays and reduces gridlock across the province. Ontarians have seen a rapid increase of new bike lanes in big cities since the COVID pandemic started. During that time, there were far fewer cars on the road due to lockdowns, and it was unclear how they’d impact traffic. Those cars are all back now, and it is evident that bike lanes are slowing traffic down to a crawl at a time when congestion is already at record levels in the GTHA and other cities across the province.", "In short, Speaker, if passed, the Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act, would reduce congestion and make life easier for drivers. The Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act would also save drivers money by freezing drivers’ testing fees, bring oversight to bike lanes and help the province build highways faster.", "Reducing gridlock is going to save drivers across the province of Ontario $72 million in lost productivity.", "Our government remains committed to making the life of all Ontarians better in every single way possible. Combatting gridlock is a top priority for countless Ontarians, and I am looking forward to seeing the Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act passed to help realize that goal.", "We’ve come a long way. We’re accomplishing things that many said were impossible. We are getting them done on time and under budget.", "Honestly, Speaker, it’s time that there was a government in Ontario that was willing to dream big, to dream of big projects that could make huge improvements for the province of Ontario—it feels like it has been decades.", "I am very, very proud to be part of a government and to work with and for a Premier who has a big vision for what we could be. That’s how we’ve gotten jobs back in this province. That’s how we continue to build highways, to build subways, to build access to opportunity for Ontarians. It’s a legacy that we’re building on.", "As I walk down the hallway in this place, I see the pictures of all the people who have passed here before us. They had a big vision for this province. They built this building, and they had no way of filling it at the time, but they knew the future would come when that wouldn’t be enough. And we see other buildings that are still under refurbishment behind us.", "We need to plan for the future. We need to have a big dream, and we need to have a big hope for what this province can be. We need to build a future, not for ourselves, but we need to build a future for our children, for our grandchildren and for generations that come behind us so that we leave this place better than we found it.", "That’s why I hope all colleagues on both sides of the aisle will help support this legislation so that we can do the right thing for the people we serve in the province of Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "We’re going to go to questions." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Tom Rakocevic", "text": [ "I consider the last speaker a friend. His speeches are always interesting, and they do inspire confidence when you listen to him speak. I have every confidence in him. But do I have confidence in this government? Not so much.", "Around the world, we have networks of high-speed trains taking people from municipalities to municipalities; we have cycling infrastructure completely separated from traffic. Even in northern Europe, where it’s colder, snowier, darker in the winter, we have dedicated cycling grids that keep drivers and cyclists completely apart.", "But the offering we’re hearing is a tunnel, 50-plus kilometres—an offering by a government that can’t even provide an end date on the Eglinton West LRT. So there is a lack of confidence, certainly from myself and many on this side of the aisle, if not the public outside, on their ability to deliver major projects—and for something this big, when the Eglinton West LRT is still not done, leaves a lot to be questioned.", "The question is, how do you give us confidence when it comes to this major project?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "I appreciate my relationship with the member across. It’s odd to have crossed the floor again to be sitting so far away from him, up here now.", "The fact of the matter is, we now have six years under our belt, and we have the results to demonstrate.", "As I mentioned earlier, when we proposed the Ontario Line, the howls from the opposition were constant and unstoppable about how this was impossible and it would never get done, and yet it’s getting done. We’re doing it. This is possible.", "It is possible still, in this time and this date and this age, to dream big for the province of Ontario and to actually get those things done. Those days aren’t behind us. Those days are in front of us. And I am so proud to be part of a government that is getting that done for the people of Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Next question? The member for Whitby." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Lorne Coe", "text": [ "Thank you, Speaker. Through you, to the member for Brantford–Brant: I’d like him to talk a little bit more broadly—because I know that he engages frequently with the people he has the privilege of representing Brantford–Brant—I want to hear him talk a little bit more about what his community residents are saying about the impact of gridlock on their daily lives. I want him to talk about what his small businesses are telling him about the effect of gridlock in that area—and if he could share that with us, please, through you.", "1740" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "I very much appreciate that question. I talk to people every day who stand still on the highways going through Hamilton as my residents try to commute to work. We have more highways to build, quite frankly, and I’ve been advocating fiercely for some form of a Highway 24—that’s a greyed-out sketch on ministry documents at this point—because the reality is that while we have the 403 going through Brantford and the 401 to the north, we don’t have a connector. I have so many, even just getting an on-and-off ramp—a shameless plug, Minister of Transportation—for the Bishopsgate Road interchange, to see that move forward would save so many of the people that live and work in my riding a half an hour to get back and forth from work.", "This a serious issue. I know they’re building—very quickly—a new Costco because it takes so long to get to Costco in Ancaster and in Kitchener. So it’s a great question. We hear it every day." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "I listened intently to the member from Brantford–Brant and gridlock is an issue. I commute once a week to Toronto and I dread it, but I always drive by the 407 and it’s always empty.", "Now, the member from Brantford–Brant said it wasn’t going to reach full capacity for seven years, so why doesn’t the government take emergency action now so that people can actually use the 407 now? You have people sitting in gridlock now who are going to wait 20 years for you to build another highway, including parts of the 407 that the province actually owns. Why don’t you let people on the 407 now, to stop gridlock now, not 20 years from now?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "I find this so amusing, Speaker, that the opposition is so short-sighted. They would clog up the only highway that we have to get truck traffic across the province of Ontario quickly. For a short-sighted solution they would cancel the plans for the Bradford Bypass, they would cancel the plans for the 413 on a solution that will only last—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "It’s not seven years; 2030 is already only six years away. They’ve seen these studies. They have no plan. They’re completely out of touch with the people of Ontario.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "They want to condemn all the commuters to spending an eternity stuck on the highways and they have no plan. I hope everyone at home is listening to what the opposition has to say. All they can do is heckle. They can catcall, they can tell us what we’re doing isn’t possible and yet we continue to prove them wrong and do what’s right for the people of Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Next question." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "Madam Speaker, I’ll speak to my experience in Essex county. In the town of LaSalle, when they wanted bike lanes, they actually built an additional lane for the bike lane. It’s a dedicated bike lane and it was built as an additional lane. In the town of Amherstburg they did the same thing. When they wanted to have bike lanes, they actually built an additional lane to the road and dedicated that as a bike lane. It was a built bike lane.", "As a visitor to this city, I’ve observed that the bike lanes that I’ve seen are not built bike lanes. What they’ve done is they’ve actually deducted a lane from an existing roadway and converted it into a bike lane, thereby depriving the motorists of that lane which formerly existed. So that, in my mind, creates bottlenecks clearly having the same amount of traffic formerly moving in four lanes now moving in two.", "I offer those observations to the member, and I ask him to comment." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "Well, Speaker, I never watched a whole lot of Seinfeld, but I do remember when I was in university seeing one episode where Kramer decided that there was too much traffic and it was too congested on one portion of the highway close to where they lived, and so he blacked out all of the lines separating that and just reduced it by one lane so that the cars would have more room. Do you know what happened? It was a disaster: accidents and gridlock across an entire city.", "I fail to understand, to the member’s question, why the opposition thinks that to make it harder to drive a car will solve the problems of gridlock. It’s a great question. I don’t understand the logic and maybe perhaps this evening in one of their speeches they can explain to us how that could work." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "A very quick question—and my colleague brought it up earlier today. There’s a lot of gridlock on Highway 401; a lot of conversation in this bill about bike lanes. He has pointed out there are no bike lanes on the 401. We’ve talked about putting cars on the 407. It seems like an immediate solution.", "I know you want to look at what’s going to happen in 20, 30 years with the 413, but why so much focus on bike lanes when, really, we could free up gridlock on the 401 by going to the 407?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Will Bouma", "text": [ "That’s great. This is the third time I’m answering this exact same question, and I’ll answer it in the exact same way: The 407 will be at capacity within six years. If the only plan that the opposition has is to take the gridlock off our other highways and put the gridlock onto the 407, to cancel the Bradford Bypass, to cancel the 413, to cancel all the other projects that we have going—people of Ontario, listen to what they have to say. They have no solutions. They want you to be stuck on the highway for an extra hour or two or three a day. They want you to lose that productivity, they want you to spend that time away from your family, to spend that time away from your loved ones, to not be able to visit your mother or grandmother in the long-term-care home. They want you stuck on the highways. I don’t know why. It makes no sense to me.", "Only on this side of the House do we have a plan for how we can solve these problems for the people of Ontario, and I am so proud to have a visionary for a Premier in the province of Ontario who dreams big and actually makes those things happen.", "I say again: The opposition said a few years ago that the Ontario Line was never going to happen—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Thank you. That’s the time for the reply. We don’t have time for another back-and-forth or question and answer.", "We’re going to move to further debate." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "It’s always a pleasure to rise in the House, and today to talk about G-212, Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time. I’d like to talk about my trip from northern Ontario to Toronto that I make weekly, and talk about the gridlock that we experience in northern Ontario first. I’m going to get to Toronto—Toronto’s important, I get it, but we also drive in northern Ontario.", "You want to know what gridlock is? When you have a one-lane highway and an untrained truck driver, who is fully licensed in the province of Ontario, does a three-point turn on a two-lane highway and the highway is blocked for hours. There’s no detour—there’s no detour. That’s northern gridlock." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "I apologize to the member—" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. John Vanthof", "text": [ "I think I’m being shut down by the government because they don’t want to hear about northern gridlock." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "I’m interrupting you.", "Pursuant to standing order 50(c), I am now required to interrupt the proceedings and announce that there has been six and a half hours of debate on the motion for second reading of this bill. This debate will therefore be deemed adjourned unless the government House leader directs the debate to continue.", "The member for Essex." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "Please adjourn the debate.", "Second reading debate deemed adjourned." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "The member for Essex.", "Interjections." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Excuse me. Can I listen to the direction of the member? Thank you." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "Madam Speaker, if you seek it, you will find that there is unanimous consent to see the clock at 6." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "Is there unanimous consent to see the clock at 6? Agreed. Now it’s 6 o’clock.", "There being no private members’ public business proceeding today, pursuant to standing order 100(e), as no business is designated for consideration, we will now move on to the late show.", "Pursuant to standing order 36, the question that this House do now adjourn is deemed to have been made." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "The member for Carleton has given notice of dissatisfaction with the answer to a question given by the Premier. The member has up to five minutes to debate the matter, and the parliamentary assistant may reply for up to five minutes.", "The member for Carleton." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Goldie Ghamari", "text": [ "Madam Speaker, on April 3, 2023, I introduced Bill 93, which is Joshua’s Law (Lifejackets for Life) Act. This bill enacts Joshua’s Law, which requires parents and guardians to ensure that their children who are 12 years of age or younger wear a personal floatation device or life jacket while on a pleasure boat that is under way, or while being towed behind a pleasure boat using recreational water equipment. If the child is not under the supervision of the parent or guardian, but is under the supervision of a person who is 18 years of age or older at the relevant time, the requirement applies instead to that person. The requirement does not apply if the child is in an enclosed cabin. Definitions of “pleasure boat” and “recreational water equipment” are provided.", "If you look at the status of this bill on the Ontario Legislature website, second reading of this bill was debated on April 25, 2023. Afterwards, it was carried unanimously by this House. Then, on July 10, 2023, it went to the Standing Committee on the Interior for consideration. It was reported without amendment on September 25, 2023, and again on September 25, 2023, Joshua’s Law was ordered for third reading. So you can imagine my surprise yesterday when I asked the Premier of Ontario why this Legislature did not pass Joshua’s Law prior to summer of 2024 when I had been promised that this bill would be passed because the safety of Ontario’s children depends on it. The answer that I received did not make any sense to me.", "The answer that I received was that, first of all, it’s up to a legislative committee, but as I just indicated, this bill has already gone to legislative committee and has been ordered for third reading, so that answer does not make sense. The second answer I received was that it’s up to me to push this forward. Again, that’s not true because everyone knows that in this Legislature the government House leader sets the agenda and sets the standard, so it’s up to the government to determine whether or not they’re going to move this bill forward.", "Finally, again, my question was not answered. I will ask the question again: Why did this government not approve and bring forward Joshua’s Law for third reading prior to the summer of 2024, when they had said they would do so? If not, will the government now commit to bringing forward Joshua’s Law, which mandates life jackets for children 12 and under in Ontario? It is a non-partisan bill, it has unanimous support of this House and I think it is very important, especially since boating season is coming up in six months. We need to make sure that we have enough time that the children of Ontario are taken care of and safe. Thank you." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "To respond, I recognize the parliamentary assistant to the Premier and member for Whitby." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Lorne Coe", "text": [ "With respect to the filing of this late show, it should be noted that the government House leader did, in fact, answer the question and the supplementary question from the member for Carleton. The government House leader noted in his answer that the overwhelming majority of private members’ bills do not pass into law. This is a well-known fact throughout our parliamentary democracy. Further, the government House leader stated in his answer his willingness to speak with the member for Carleton about this piece of legislation.", "I do appreciate, however, the opportunity to speak to the importance of wearing life jackets. As legislators, we should applaud efforts to bring awareness to boating safety, particularly with respect to children. In 2021, Drowning Prevention Research Centre Canada found that 80% of people who died in boating-related accidents between 2008 and 2017 were not wearing a life jacket, and another 5% were not wearing one properly. According to the 2018 Canadian Drowning Report by Drowning Prevention Research Centre Canada, 67% of children age five to 14 who died from drowning were not wearing a personal flotation device. Behind each of these statistics is a life lost that leaves a family and community broken.", "Speaker, I thank you again for the opportunity to rise and speak on this matter. I encourage everyone, particularly children and youth, to wear life jackets while boating." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (MmeLucille Collard)", "text": [ "There being no further matter to debate, pursuant to standing order 36(c), I deem the motion to adjourn to be carried.", "This House stands adjourned until 9 a.m. tomorrow, Thursday October 30.", "The House adjourned at 1754.", "", "", "", "" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "M. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Ça me fait toujours plaisir de représenter le monde de Mushkegowuk–Baie James, puis parler du projet de loi 212, « Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time ».", "Je me demande où commencer quand ça vient à la sécurité. Quand on parle des routes, quand on parle du « gridlock », quand on parle de tout ce qu’on entend ce gouvernement dire, là, et ce qui vient me chercher encore plus, c’est quand j’entends le ministre dire qu’on a les routes les plus sécuritaires dans l’Amérique du Nord. À toutes les fois, je me dis : « qu’il sorte de sa tour d’ivoire qu’il vienne se promener sur la route 11 ou la 17. »", "J’inviterais, en passant, tous les députés d’aller voir sur un site Web qui s’appelle la route 11 et 17 tue du monde—« Highway 11/17 Kills People ». Vous allez vous rendre à l’évidence : comment c’est dangereux sur les routes 11 et 17. Les choses qu’on voit sur ce site-là, ça nous fait lever les poils sur les bras, dans le cou. Je peux vous dire que vous allez voir des situations où vous ne croirez pas ce qui se passe sur nos routes.", "On a entendu qu’il y a des mortalités qui se passent sur nos routes. J’entendais justement—tu sais, quand est-ce que c’est correct qu’il y a des morts sur nos routes? Depuis quand est-ce qu’on prend pour acquis que c’est sûr qu’il va y en avoir et on se contente que le montant, que j’ai entendu dans le débat, de personnes qui décèdent, c’est correct? Que tu sois en vélo, que tu sois en auto, que tu sois dans n’importe quel véhicule, c’est zéro, le chiffre. Arrêtons de dire qu’on a les routes les plus sécuritaires, mais il y a du monde par centaines qui meurt sur nos routes et on dit que c’est correct. Je m’excuse. On doit faire pas mal mieux que ça.", "Moi, je vis sur la 11. Il faut réaliser qu’on n’est pas comme dans le Sud. Puis, qu’est-ce que je vois de ce gouvernement, là—est-ce que c’est seulement ce qui se passe dans le sud de l’Ontario, et le reste du Nord, on s’en fout? On est un peuple oublié. On est des citoyens de deuxième classe. Je ne dis pas ça juste pour le dire, parce que je suis à l’opposition; c’est une réalité. Quand on voit des investissements—il faut qu’il y en ait, des investissements dans le Sud, mais il ne faut pas oublier qu’on en a besoin dans le Nord aussi.", "J’entendais le député qui parlait juste avant moi, qui disait qu’on a le 2+1. C’est un projet pilote qu’on attend toujours, qui se travaille. Ça ne devrait pas—on sait ce qui se passe dans les autres pays. Il l’a mentionné, lui too : ça marche partout ailleurs dans le monde. Mais nous autres, on a des projets pilotes et vous autres dans le Nord, contentez-vous d’un petit projet pilote. On a besoin de bien plus que ça. On a besoin que ce soit soit à la grandeur du Nord ou bien donc qu’on ait, comme tout le reste, une autoroute divisée, que ça va sur les deux bords; qu’on soit en sécurité; qu’on ait des routes déblayées; qu’on ait des routes où on se sent en sécurité.", "Moi, j’ai des concitoyens qui ont peur d’embarquer sur les routes. C’est ça la réalité que bien du monde qui sont dans la Chambre ici, vous ne comprenez pas et vous ne réalisez pas c’est quoi qu’on vit au jour le jour. Parce que si nos routes ferment, il n’y a plus rien qui bouge. Si nos routes ferment, on ne peut pas se rendre à nos appointements médicaux. Si nos routes ferment, nos enfants ne sont pas capables de se rendre à l’école. Puis s’ils sont pris sur la route, qu’est-ce qu’ils font, là? C’est beau l’été, mais l’hiver, il fait froid.", "Si nos routes ferment, comment est-ce qu’on se rend au travail? Si nos routes ferment—j’entendais justement mon collègue dire que les « goods » sont importants, que c’est bien de se rendre à destination, que ça fait partie de l’économie de l’Ontario. Je suis d’accord avec lui, mais il faut bien que nos routes restent ouvertes. Toutes les fois qu’elles ferment—moi, j’ai vécu 12 heures, parce qu’il y avait quelqu’un qui est décédé sur les route. J’ai vécu des six heures, sept heures, huit heures derrière, que la route se déneige. Écoute, deux jours—on a vu deux jours des routes fermées, des routes hivernales.", "Je me souviens que j’avais proposé que les routes 11 et 17 devraient être comme les 400 et comme le QEW, et qu’elles soient sont déblayées après huit heures. C’est une Transcanadienne, là. On va le dire en bon français : ce n’est pas une « trail » à vaches, là. Ce n’est pas une « trail ». C’est une route primaire, pas secondaire. C’est la route Transcanadienne.", "Puis, on a décidé de créer une nouvelle classification pour enlever un peu de pression, pour dire qu’on va le faire après 13 heures. C’est de huit heures qu’on a besoin; 13 heures, ça n’a rien changé dans notre vie. Ça n’a absolument rien changé dans notre vie.", "C’est nous encore dans le Nord qu’on vit au jour le jour, puis qu’on voit comment ça impacte notre communauté. Comme vous le savez, on demeure loin. Les familles, que ce soit du hockey, de la natation, on doit sortir si on veut que nos enfants aient des tournois, des compétitions de nage, du volleyball et tous les sports qu’il y a alentours, pour aller compétitionner contre d’autres jeunes à travers la province. Ça fait qu’on est tout le temps sur la route.", "Il y a une réalité que vous ne comprenez pas : on est toujours sur la route. Ça, c’est une réalité qu’on a, qu’on accepte. Où on vit, dans le Nord, on accepte ça. Mais on mérite des routes sécuritaires. Encore, je reviens à ça : quand j’entends le ministre, ça me fait—en tout cas, ça vient me chercher. Pourquoi? Parce que mes concitoyens, nous, on sait la vérité. On sait ce qui se passe. Peut-être que le ministre devrait voir le site, en passant, le même site que je vous ai mentionné : la route 11 et 17 tue le monde—or kills people. Allez voir. Je peux vous dire, vous allez avoir peur, vous aussi, de voyager sur cette route-là. Ce n’est pas moi qui le dit, là. Allez le voir par vous-mêmes. Rendez-vous à la réalité. Vous allez le voir. C’est donné à tout le monde d’aller voir ce site-là. C’est public. Tout d’un coup, vous allez faire le saut avec ce qui se passe sur ces routes-là.", "Du monde qui dépasse sur des lignes doubles—tu sais, j’ai proposé « Chad’s Law ». Ce n’est pas juste dans l’Amérique du Nord. On est la seule province dans l’Amérique du Nord qui n’a pas ça : que ce soit illégal de dépasser sur les lignes doubles. J’étais comme tout le monde, moi. Je pensais que les lignes doubles, quand tu prends ton permis de conduire, que tu ne peux passer une ligne double, que c’est illégal. Mais c’est une suggestion. La police peut te donner des amendes pour d’autres choses. Mais moi, c’est les policiers qui m’ont dit : « Guy, si tu veux nous aider, passe un projet de loi pour mettre ça illégal, sur les deux lignes. »", "À la grandeur du Canada, toutes les autres provinces, ils l’ont. Et ça va bien plus loin que ça. En Amérique du Nord—on parle de l’Amérique du Nord, puis de l’Amérique du Sud. On parle de tout le continent nord-américain. C’est quasiment la loi partout. Il y a l’Ontario et quelques petits États proche des Lacs qui n’ont rien. On parle de deux ou trois États. Le reste, c’est toute la loi.", "1630", "Puis, ce gouvernement-là, dans sa sagesse, il a voté contre. Mais ils sont là, par exemple, pour se péter les bretelles, puis ils nous disent : « Mais non. Nous autres, on est là pour la sécurité du monde. On est là pour protéger les citoyens. On a un meilleur projet de loi. On veut faire certain qu’il n’y a pas de « gridlock ». On veut que les routes soient sécuritaires. » Mais je peux te dire, ça arrête pas loin de North Bay, par exemple. Le reste de vous autres, ça ne compte pas, vous autres. Vous êtes à la merci.", "Pourquoi voter contre un projet de loi qui sauverait des vies? Chad, c’était un jeune homme qui s’en allait juste au travail, là, qui s’en allait chercher les pièces à Val Rita. Il arrive face à face avec deux camions de 18 roues. Deux gros camions qui s’en venaient face à face, qui passaient où il y avait deux lignes solides. Il a quasiment perdu sa vie. En passant, c’est sur le site aussi, son accident.", "C’est rien que pour vous dire qu’on a un gouvernement qui dit une chose, mais à cause que le projet de loi—c’est un projet de loi qui fait du sens, qui est non partisan, mais qu’ils ont voté contre. Mais on dit que nos routes sont les plus sécuritaires en Amérique du Nord, puis on vote contre un projet de loi comme ça. Je ne comprends pas. Il va falloir que vous me l’expliquiez puisque—ce n’est pas juste moi qui ne le comprends pas; c’est plein de concitoyens qui ne le comprennent pas non plus.", "Puis, j’aimerais parler aussi des conditions de nos routes hivernales. Depuis que les libéraux et conservateurs ont privatisé, on a des conditions de routes—ce n’est pas les personnes derrière les charrues qui sont le problème, là. C’est le financement qui vient avec ça, puis la privatisation, puis tout. Mais avant c’était toute la province qui le faisait, puis les conditions étaient beaucoup plus sécuritaires. Moi, je me souviens, je n’ai jamais manqué d’école à cause des routes hivernales. Puis, là, on voit que les routes sont fermées souvent, puis on paye le prix. Ce n’est pas juste les écoles dont on parle. À la grandeur des communautés qui vivent dans le Nord—pas le Grand Nord, mais dans le Nord—les routes 11 et 17, on vit ça. D’un coup, ce n’est pas normal, là. Ce n’est pas normal de vivre des conditions qui nous mettent dans une situation de danger, de peur, que là, maintenant, il y a des personnes qui disent : « Bien, Guy, j’aimerais aller faire mes groceries, mais les routes ne sont pas assez sécuritaires. J’ai vraiment peur d’être sur les routes. » Ils ont peur d’aller sur nos routes. Ça, c’est une réalité qu’on vit.", "Mais, le temps va vite, et je veux parler de quelque chose qui me tient à coeur beaucoup : c’est la question qu’on a vu sur Marketplace sur la fraude qui se passe dans l’industrie du camionnage. Ça fait des années, sur ce côté de la Chambre, qu’on mentionne qui se passe de quoi dans l’industrie qui n’est pas correct. On voit trop souvent des camionneurs, dans des journées ensoleillées, qui sont rentrées en plein clos, ou qui sont parqués sur le côté, qui ont flippé, ou qui ont « jackknifé »—écoute, la liste est longue. Ça se produit constamment.", "Puis, tout d’un coup, on voit sur Marketplace une investigation qui demande comment le problème est généralisé, là. Ce n’est pas juste un ou deux joueurs, comme le ministre semble dire : « Oh, a few bad players ». It’s not about a few bad players. C’est systémique. C’est un cancer dans l’industrie. Puis, j’espère que vous l’avez vu. Puis, si vous ne l’avez pas vu, là, je vous demande d’aller le voir, tous les membres du gouvernement, puisque c’est vous autres qui êtes au gouvernement puis c’est vous autres qui pouvez changer des choses puis adresser les problèmes qu’on vit comme c’est là en Ontario.", "Tout d’un coup, à cause qu’on a privatisé, il y a plus que 500-quelque chose institutions qui donnent des licences. Tout d’un coup, si moi je voulais être un camionneur, le fameux MELT qu’on a introduit, ils ont trouvé une façon de le bypasser : c’est que je vais payer du cash—moins cher—puis l’institution signe comme quoi j’ai fait le training, ou j’ai fait la formation, pour me dire : « Guy, tu chauffes à contrat, tu as passé ton MELT. Tu es sécuritaire pour chauffer un camion de 18 roues. » Une méchante entente, ça là. Si tu ne t’es pas qualifié, tu ne devrais pas être derrière cette roue-là. Tu ne devrais pas conduire un camion de 18 roues qui charrie des tonnes derrière, tu sais, dans ce quoi tu transportes, puis tu t’en vas sur nos routes, puis tout d’un coup, tu mets la vie de tout le monde en danger—pas juste dans le Nord, là, partout en province.", "Puis j’ai posé des questions au ministre. Ma collègue de Thunder Bay–Superior North a demandé des questions au ministre. Puis lui, il fait paraître comme quoi c’est quelques mauvais joueurs dans l’industrie. Ce ne sont pas « quelques ». L’investigation a démontré très clair, ce n’est pas un ou deux. C’est plus qu’un. Je pense qu’elle jouait dans les 14 institutions. Qu’est-ce qu’ils ont fait? Ont-ils retiré les licences à ces institutions-là? Non.", "Honnêtement, à tous les conducteurs : ce n’est pas la faute du conducteur. Lui, c’est un travailleur. Il chauffe son truck et il veut travailler; il a une famille à faire vivre. Ces institutions-là, par exemple, elles ont donné des licences à du monde qui n’en méritait pas. À quelque part, il faut faire retester ce monde-là. Sont-ils qualifiés ou ne le sont-ils pas? Va-t-on attendre qu’il y ait du monde qui meurt encore plus sur nos routes pour dire qu’ils n’étaient pas qualifiés? Mais il est trop tard. Il y a quelqu’un qui est décédé.", "Je peux te dire, sur la route, si tu rencontres un camion de 18 roues et tu es en auto, ou bien donc en camion léger—qu’on appelle un pick-up—ce n’est pas toi qui vas gagner, là. Tu vas gagner un ticket direct au ciel; ça, c’est certain. Mais ça, c’est une réalité qui se passe chez nous, là. Puis on a un gouvernement qui dit que tout va bien, qu’il n’y en a pas, de problèmes, qu’on n’a pas de problèmes.", "Ça fait des années qu’on vous dit qu’on est concerné et qu’il manque d’inspecteurs. Il manque d’inspecteurs qui vont inspecter ces institutions-là qui donnent des licences. Ça n’a pas rapport, de quelle couleur est le chauffeur. C’est l’institution où l’inspecteur devrait entrer—pas appeler, et « je m’en viens »—à l’imprévu et vérifier ce qui se passe. Vous ne pouvez plus faire l’autruche. L’investigation a été faite. Vous avez les preuves devant vous autres, puis encore, ce n’est pas assez. Ce n’est pas assez.", "Puis on voit ce qui se passe sur nos routes. Chad est un individu qui s’en est sorti chanceux. Il a eu du « PTSD ». Là, maintenant, il a une condition qu’il est pris avec. Je peux vous dire que l’individu à Thunder Bay, lui, n’a pas été aussi chanceux. Il a perdu sa vie. Puis ça, ce ne sont rien que deux cas, là. Il y en a des centaines de cas comme ça qui se passent sur nos routes, comme c’est là. Il y a du monde qui a perdu leur vie. Puis tout d’un coup, on voit une investigation comme ça qui vient confirmer certaines inquiétudes qu’on avait, puis qu’on a les inspecteurs, que le gouvernement—il devra y avoir beaucoup plus d’inspecteurs.", "On a des millions qui ont été investis pour des « scales », comme ils les appellent, les fameuses balances pour vérifier les camionneurs, qui sont fermées trois quarts du temps. Pourquoi elles sont fermées trois quarts du temps? On a une place à Shuniah où la route passe là. Tous les camions qui viennent au Canada passent par là. Ce serait une bonne façon de les pogner, si on gardait ça ouvert 24 sur 24. Je pense qu’ils l’ont ouverte à une secousse et sur 300 camions, il y avait plus de 100 camions qui ont été parqués parce qu’ils n’étaient pas sécuritaires ou qu’ils ne répondaient pas aux normes. Ça vous dit quoi, au gouvernement? Ça vous dit certainement que ça ne va pas bien, là. Mais ça, c’est une réalité qui se passe dans l’Ontario.", "Imagine-toi que nous, on n’a pas les quatre lignes, les cinq lignes, puis on n’a pas de bypass, qu’on n’a pas les fameux bypass dont on entend parler tout le temps, qui coûtent des millions. On entend Metrolinx—ce sont des milliards et des milliards de dollars qui se payent, un salaire d’un million de dollars; il y a 82 v.-p., 19 « CEO ». Puis, je vois la situation que mes commettants vivent dedans, que nous, dans le nord de l’Ontario, on demande des routes sécuritaires, on veut des 2+1, on aimerait avoir une « divided highway » qui est rendu maintenant à Nipigon. On sait qu’elle est rendue aussi pas loin de North Bay—elle est à North Bay.", "Pourquoi nous autres on ne mérite pas des routes plus sécuritaires comme ce qu’on voit dans le sud de l’Ontario? On est Ontariens comme vous autres. Ça me fait penser à une farce, une joke : « On-était-riens » dans le Nord, oui. Mais on est plus qu’« On-était-riens ». On est Ontariens du Nord. On est des Nord-Ontariens et on mérite les mêmes choses, pas qu’on ne mérite pas. Qu’est-ce qu’on vit comme c’est là, sur les routes? Puis on ne mérite pas qu’au jour le jour—puis là, je peux vous dire, là, on est dans l’automne. En passant, là, il a neigé à Kap. Il a neigé à Chapleau. Il a neigé à Geraldton. Il a neigé à Dubreuilville. On a de la neige qui commence, là. On est sujet à beaucoup plus de « black ice », de « slush », de neige que vous autres, souvent, vous ne voyez pas dans le Sud. Mais pour nous, c’est une réalité qu’on a constamment.", "1640", "Imaginez-vous, quand on a du monde qui n’a pas été qualifié sur les routes—que le MELT aussi, en passant, donne un petit peu d’instruction sur comment conduire sur les routes hivernales.", "Je veux rien que prendre les deux dernières minutes que j’ai—j’ai parlé avec une institution de camionnage. Eux autres, ils ont un simulateur. Ça m’a impressionné. Et le monsieur, même dans l’entrevue, il pleurait parce qu’il pensait aux joueurs d’hockey qui sont décédés. Est-ce que ça va prendre un autre—comment ça s’appelle, les jeunes qui sont morts au hockey en Saskatchewan?" ] }, { "speaker": "M. Joel Harden", "text": [ "Humboldt." ] }, { "speaker": "M. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Humboldt—pour que le gouvernement de l’Ontario se réveille? Un camionneur qui est passé drette sur un stop et est rentré à travers un autobus—ou que ça soit des personnes âgées, parce que les personnes âgées aiment voyager. Non, ils s’en vont dans le Sud. Ils vont partout. Est-ce que ça va prendre une école scolaire? Est-ce que ça va prendre—tu sais, est-ce ça que ça va vous prendre pour que vous vous réveilliez et pour que nous, dans le Nord, on ait les mêmes conditions routières que vous autres?", "Quand on dit que la communauté Smooth Rock Falls veut réduire leur « speed limit » dans la ville—il y a 50 kilomètres en rentrant, mais ils veulent l’« extender » juste pour sortir puisqu’on passe en avant de l’hôpital, on passe en avant des maisons, on passe où les autobus s’arrêtent. Puis ils sont après se battre avec le ministère des Transports pour réduire, dans leur communauté—qui est l’autoroute 17, qui passe en ville—de 70 à 50 pour protéger leurs concitoyens, puis le ministère dit non.", "Dites-moi si ça fait du sens que le maire s’astine avec le ministère des Transports pour faire réduire un « speed limit » qui est dans sa communauté, puis on n’est pas capable de faire réduire un « speed limit » à 50.", "Je vous demande, gouvernement, de faire les bonnes choses. On a droit aux mêmes services, on a droit à la même sécurité sur nos routes. Puis je demande au ministre de retirer les licences à ces institutions-là qui ont « licencé » ou qui ont donné des permis à ceux qui ne devraient pas en avoir.", "Et toutes ces institutions-là, les 14 en question, qui devraient demander à ce monde-là de réécrire le test avant qu’il y ait quelqu’un qui meure sur nos routes ou qu’ils tuent quelqu’un sur nos routes—c’est la moindre des choses. Je demande au ministre de faire la bonne chose, parce que nous, on a le droit d’arriver à la maison en santé, en sécurité, sains et saufs, puisqu’on a des familles comme tous vous autres. Je ne pense pas qu’un des commettants veuille perdre un membre de la famille sur nos routes." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "M. Stéphane Sarrazin", "text": [ "Je demanderais au membre de—j’ai toujours de la misère à dire ce—" ] }, { "speaker": "M. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Mushkegowuk." ] }, { "speaker": "M. Stéphane Sarrazin", "text": [ "Mushkegowuk–James Bay. J’imagine que tu as vraiment pris connaissance du projet de loi. Je vous écoutais parler, justement, des problèmes liés aux municipalités puis liés aussi aux permis donnés. Est-ce que vous avez vu que dans ce projet de loi, ce sont justement des choses auxquelles on va toucher, à voir, à faire sûr que les choses soient mieux faites, que les gens soient mieux certifiés? Puis aussi, l’autorisation des chemins : souvent, comme nous, vous devez avoir des projets qui ont été « post-ponés ». Souvent vous avez entendu parler des projets dans le nord comme dans l’est de l’Ontario, où on était pour faire des routes, mais à cause de certaines difficultés, ça ne s’est pas concrétisé. Donc ces projets de loi-là vont faire que ça va être plus facile de concrétiser ces projets-là puis il va y avoir une meilleure surveillance. Je me demandais c’était quoi votre avis à ce sujet-là." ] }, { "speaker": "M. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Merci de la question, mon collègue de Prescott-Russell. Merci pour la question en français, en passant.", "Ceci dit, la licence, tu sais, qu’elle soit gratuite, si je ne me trompe pas, dans le projet de loi—non, « freeze », de geler, excusez, de geler les licences. C’est correct de les geler, mais il ne faut pas oublier que même une investigation a démontré, justement, pour les permis de conduire, que c’est un autre problème qu’on a. Puis il ne faut pas oublier que ça a été privatisé, là. C’est depuis la privatisation qu’on a ces problèmes-là—c’est récent. Depuis que vous avez privatisé le « DriveTest ». Même ceux qui conduisent avec des licences d’auto—tu sais, pour les questions d’assurance, le test pour le test d’assurance, là, pour réduire tes tests d’assurance—payent pour avoir la certification pour réduire les assurances, même s’ils ne l’ont pas pris.", "Fait qu’on le voit : ce n’est pas juste les camionneurs. On voit aussi que c’est pour la conduite d’auto pour essayer de baisser les assurances—encore de la fraude—où on paye pour avoir la—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Thank you. Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "MmeSandy Shaw", "text": [ "Merci pour votre discours cet après-midi. J’espère que nous sommes tous d’accord que c’est une priorité d’un gouvernement de protéger les gens. Vous avez parlé bien des routes 11 et 69 qui tuent des gens. Et si c’est un gouvernement qui est vraiment, vraiment sérieux à propos de protéger les gens, je me demande pourquoi ils ignorent les grands problèmes que nous avons maintenant dans les « DriveTest centres » et aussi avec le « training ». Parce que s’il y a des gens qui conduisent sur nos autoroutes, c’est une grande cause des problèmes. Et aussi, toujours, ce gouvernement dit que nous avons les autoroutes les plus sauves du monde, mais si seulement on—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Thank you. Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "M. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Merci à ma collègue. Ce qu’on voit c’est que, depuis la privatisation, le problème est devenu plus problématique. On se souvient avant, c’était géré par la province. On a voulu encore privatiser un système—c’est pour ça que la collègue a fait un projet de loi pour ramener à la province, pour enrayer que quand ça vient aux certifications, aux tests et tout ça, que ce soit par la province et non privé, pour éliminer toute la fraude qui est attachée à ce qu’on voit, comme c’est là, avec les investigations.", "Que ce soit pour les tests, comme je viens de le mentionner, quand tu veux passer des licences pour être capable d’avoir la certification pour réduire tes assurances de conduite quand tu es jeune. Bien, il y en a qui ont payé et ils ne l’ont pas fait, ça, mais ils ont la certification. Même affaire pour les camionneurs quand on a vu—c’est exactement la question que j’ai demandée. Puis j’en ai parlé, puisque Marketplace a démontré comment corrompu le système était. Ce n’est pas un ou deux joueurs; c’est systémique. C’est un problème qui est très réparti dans le camionnage—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Thank you. Next question." ] }, { "speaker": "L’hon. Sam Oosterhoff", "text": [ "Je vous remercie aussi cet après-midi pour votre présentation. Votre circonscription, la circonscription de Mushkegowuk–James Bay, est vraiment une circonscription très éloignée. Au sud de l’Ontario, ma circonscription, Niagara-Ouest, est éloignée mais pas comme votre circonscription. Mais en même temps, dans ma circonscription, nous avons beaucoup de conducteurs/conductrices. Je suppose aussi pour vos résidents—vous avez beaucoup de personnes qui utilisent les voitures. J’aime beaucoup votre passion pour défendre les conducteurs dans votre circonscription.", "Mais en même temps, quand tu supportes la taxe de carbone, la tarification sur les émissions, dans votre circonscription, qu’est-ce qu’ils disent, vos « constituents »? Quand tu arrives ici et votre parti supporte la taxe de carbone, même avec le parti fédéral, qu’est-ce qu’ils disent quand tu reviens à ta maison?" ] }, { "speaker": "M. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Honnêtement, le monde de ma circonscription, ils voudraient avoir bien plus des routes sécuritaires, comme c’est là, que de la « carbon tax ». Tu sais, je veux dire, quand tu joues avec ta vie ou la vie de tes enfants ou la vie de tes frères, tes soeurs—tu te promènes sur des routes où tu sais qu’il y a du monde non qualifié qui se promène sur la même route que toi, je ne pense pas que la « carbon tax », c’est la première affaire à laquelle ils pensent.", "Moi je peux vous dire, à maintes reprises, je les voyage, ces routes-là. À maintes reprises, j’ai été obligé soit de me parquer sur le côté puis même monter sur la bande pour ne pas me faire frapper, ou bien donc ralentir assez loin pour donner à un camionneur qui a décidé de dépasser mon truck plus deux autres gros trucks en avant de moi, des 18-roues—il a été obligé de se ranger. Moi—on connait la route parce qu’on vient de ce coin-là, et il y avait un coche qui s’en venait. Bien non, on était obligé de lui laisser la place.", "Je peux te dire, ils sont bien plus concernés avec la santé et la sécurité. Il semble que pour votre gouvernement la « carbon tax » est la plus grosse affaire, mais je peux vous dire, il y a trop de monde qui monde qui meurt sur nos routes. Ça, ça fait peur au monde de ma circonscription." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question." ] }, { "speaker": "M. Joel Harden", "text": [ "Encore, merci, mon ami de Mushkegowuk–Baie James, pour votre discours—toujours bon, toujours passionné. Franchement, avez-vous un avis pour le gouvernement pour s’assurer qu’il y a des bonnes routes—les autoroutes 69, 11—en bonne condition? Parce que j’ai eu la chance beaucoup de fois ici de t’écouter, et il y a des solutions. Il y a des solutions pour enlever la neige, améliorer les routes, mais ici on parle d’un projet de loi où je crois, à mon avis, comme je t’écoute, il n’y pas de vraies solutions. Ce sont quoi les solutions pour les personnes qui vivent au Nord?", "1650" ] }, { "speaker": "M. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Je remercie mon collègue de la question. Les solutions sont qu’on veut des routes sécuritaires. Ça commence par l’entretien des routes hivernales. On veut avoir la même affaire que dans le Sud. On devrait avoir classe 1, qu’après huit heures, nos routes sont déblayées. On parle de « Chad’s Law », les « two solid lines ».", "Écoute, ce n’est pas moi qui a pensé à ça tout seul. C’est venu des polices, des « OPP », puis j’ai parlé à mes commettants et ils disent, « Guy, ça fait du sens. C’est du “common sense” quand tu vois que ça se fait à la grandeur. »", "Ça prend aussi que nos routes soient bien entretenues. Tu sais, la 69, qu’elle soit terminée. Ça fait, quoi, six ans et demi qu’on est élu et on en entend encore parler. Tu sais, ça prend du 3+1—« two plus one ». Oui, on le sait que ça marche ailleurs. On aimerait l’avoir parce que ce qui arrive sur la route 11, c’est qu’il n’y a pas assez de place de déplacement. Si on avait ça, c’est à tous les dix kilomètres que ça change de chaque bord. Fait que ça nous donne une chance de dépasser, puis aussi aux camionneurs de le faire sécuritairement. Mais là, on est juste, nous autres dans le Nord, on nous donne un projet pilote puis, « contentez-vous de ça » et « on travaille fort pour vous autres pour que ça soit sécuritaire pour nos routes 11 et 17. On vous fait ça. On fait des projets pilotes. »" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ric Bresee", "text": [ "I apologize for not being able to do this in French—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ric Bresee", "text": [ "I’m learning, but I’m not there quite yet.", "Speaker, to the member, we know that this government has done a tremendous amount of work improving commercial vehicle safety, especially across northern Ontario. We added the new vehicle inspection station on 11/17 at Shuniah—if I’m pronouncing that one correctly—and we’ve increased enforcement across the entire region on 11, 17, 144 and 101. With that, and with this bill, we’re proposing to increase the authorities and the abilities of our MTO inspectors and all of the hard-working people who are trying to keep the roads safe—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "Response?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Guy Bourgouin", "text": [ "Not enough, because these inspection stations you’re talking about are closed half the time, and truckers know when they are closed because they talk to each other. So they’re getting away with a lot. And you need more inspectors because that’s the reality we have: not enough inspectors. We’ve been telling you that for years but yet you failed." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Aislinn Clancy", "text": [ "I am honoured to talk about this bill today. While there is some good in there, I’ll admit, there’s a few big problems leading our province in the wrong direction.", "I’ll start by talking a little bit about Highway 413. I have a business degree and I hear from this government a lot that they want to be fiscally responsible and do things that are good for business. I think we can see from the way we’ve organized today that this isn’t working very well. I have to admit, I was planning to speak on Wednesday, but we keep shuffling the deck making it very difficult for us to be productive.", "We know that highways are a good way to flush money away, especially when we don’t have the data to support them actually solving the problem. When we do find a solution that doesn’t have data to support it, we are not going to end up further ahead, and it is more like smoke and mirrors, looking like you’re doing something but not actually moving anyone further ahead.", "I think if you’re a business, you want to make sure you have good partnerships. From what I’ve read, the city of Toronto, Orangeville, Mississauga and Halton Hills have all said they do not support Highway 413. We know it’s very expensive, costing between $6 billion and $10 billion, which would do a lot to help our crumbling health care and education systems. So not only is it money that we should be spending elsewhere; we know it’s very expensive and that’s just the costs we have today. There is a construction price index that is way above the consumer price index, at about 8%. We see all of our projects doubling in price in a matter of a few years. So we can anticipate that the numbers we have today will almost surely increase.", "It shows also that we are not taking the climate crisis seriously. We saw what happened this year in Toronto and that storm cost us $1 billion. We know that for every dollar we spend on climate adaptation we save $17. Think of the money we could save by investing this money in climate adaptation. You know what helps us adapt to climate change? Wetlands. Wetlands not only sequester carbon but they act like the very infrastructure we’re spending billions on, and they’re already there right now. A lot of the wetlands that the 413 will pave over will actually make these climate disasters worse than they are now. Swamps and things like that are known to reduce the negative impact of rain and extreme climate events.", "It also shows that we’re not serious on reducing pollution. We know that by shoving people into cars, we will most surely increase not only carbon emissions but pollution. Look around the room, everyone. When you were growing up, do you remember having that one kid in your class who had asthma? How many kids in our children’s classrooms have asthma today? Really, think about it. We are doing nothing to reduce the health issues that people all over this province face.", "I heard the Minister of Rural Affairs say today that he cares about preserving precious farmland—413 will destroy 2,000 acres of prime agricultural land. How can you look farmers in the face and say you’re doing the right thing when this very highway goes against the very protection of prime farmland we say we stand for?", "I know that in my community, one way that would get us out of our cars is by having two-way, all-day GO. We know transit and opening up the 407—a highway that already exists—are solutions that will work today, not in 10 years. When I miss the train at 6 o’clock, it can take almost three hours to get home, and I’m on a very crowded bus. We can do better than that. For my roommate to get from my downtown Kitchener location to the MPP for Cambridge’s riding, which is a 20-minute drive, it takes her two hours. For someone to get from downtown Kitchener to Hamilton, it can take three and a half hours. This is unacceptable. No wonder people are getting into cars. We can get inner-city transit that will solve that tomorrow. We already have Grand River Transit and other municipal transits. Let’s get them talking and let’s fund it.", "Most of all, I care about the safety of our vulnerable road users. Not only is this highway fiscally irresponsible, but it’s dangerous to our climate and future generations. As a mother, I bike to work every day. I use these bike lanes, which Kitchener has won many awards for, by the way, and I use them to get to work. I have fun, I enjoy myself, I get fresh air, and I’m healthier for it.", "I know all of us are doing what we can as MPPs to stay healthy because this job is not a healthy one, right? We’re trying to eat our vegetables. We’re trying to get our steps in and move around. That is what I do to stay healthy. It’s cheaper, it’s easier, it’s more affordable, it’s healthier. But not only that—fine, if you want to endanger my life. But my daughter is 14. She just started high school this year. She gets on her bike, and sometimes, because she has a really wonderful hairdo, she doesn’t put her helmet on, and it drives me crazy. I want to run down the street yelling at her and screaming, saying, “Put your helmet on.”", "Here, I’m faced with a government that doesn’t seem to care about the well-being of my child, a 14-year-old who’s just trying to make it to school safely, and a mother who just wants to have her child arrive back home and not be injured. We know that these evenings are getting darker every day. I gave her lights, I bought her a new helmet, but when that dump truck is turning right and he can’t see her, that doesn’t mean anything. I’ve done all that I can. I feed her properly, I try to put her to bed on time and made sure she does her homework. I wish this government cared as much about my child’s well-being as they do about somebody who’s stuck on the 401 when we could solve that problem. It’s not okay.", "We could do better for all of our students all across Ontario. We know, locally, active transportation is meant to improve children’s well-being. It will prevent cancer. Our cancer societies are trying to get people to commute to school without having to use a car.", "Just this year in the US, there was a declaration of crisis for parent mental health. Raise your hand if you as a parent would prefer to do something else instead of getting in your car and driving your kid to school. As a city councillor, I can’t tell you how many times I heard from families saying that traffic around school zones was a nightmare. Not only will we improve the health and well-being of kids by empowering them, helping them feel happy and healthy by getting them to school on time, we’ll improve the well-being of the very parents who are sending them there. We know that this is better, and we can do better.", "1700", "Bike lanes are something that we already have. I don’t see why this is a priority for this government when we know there are so many other priorities. One of the priorities mentioned today was mental health. As a school social worker for 11 years, one of the main therapeutic interventions I would try to get students to do was getting them on a bike. Why? If that child, who doesn’t really want to go to school anyway, misses their bus as 7:30 in the morning, guess what? “Sorry, Mom, I missed the bus. I’m not going to school.” I begged our school principals to give us some transit passes so that that kid, if they missed the bus, maybe could catch period 2, period 3 or period 4.", "I know a bike would go the distance to address the mental health of our young people if they got outside, if they move their bodies, if they had fresh air. Raise your hand if you wish your kids would get outside, move their bodies and get more fresh air. I know I try to do that even just as an MPP.", "We know that the data is there that we need more active transportation, we need alternatives to just having a car. I have my car, I appreciate my car and use it all the time, but we need alternatives. We need bikes, we need the ability to walk around and we need to build housing where we work and play. So not only have we invested in a very regressive type of transportation plan, but also we have invested in a regressive type of housing plan. We know that by building density, opening up options within cities, people could walk and bike to work and it’s more affordable to allow all the people to develop, not just big developers with big pockets who can build subdivisions.", "So I ask of you today to recognize the work of our great city of Kitchener in moving people onto bikes. If you want a business plan, we can show you there has been significant growth, significant use, and I’m really proud of our city for the awards we’ve won and the amount of ridership increase. I hope that you’ll consider all road users when you’re building your next transit plan.", "I do thank you for the investments in transit. I know a lot of money has been put forward into expanding GO Transit, expanding the One Fare system. I think this is great. We need all young people and all Ontarians to have transit options, but we have to make sure that we’re not doubling down on investments, in a carbon crisis, in infrastructure like highways and reducing the choices of people who bike." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ric Bresee", "text": [ "I thank the member from Kitchener Centre for her presentation. I want to say thank you for mentioning the wonderful expansions that we are doing with transit, and we’ll continue to work towards that.", "One of the things that, unfortunately, you didn’t mention—and it is part of this bill—is the move towards analyzing and regulating e-bikes. We’ve seen the modes of technology change dramatically because the users are on the leading edge. They are the ones out there utilizing these and we now need to catch up and make sure we have appropriate analysis, and appropriate definitions of these bikes.", "I was wondering if the member actually agrees with that move so that we can continue to promote the e-bikes and such devices." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Aislinn Clancy", "text": [ "Just like we’re trying to make driving less bureaucratic and easier, we also need to ensure that we don’t over-bureaucratize e-bikes. That is my form of transportation, an e-bike. I encourage any of you to come across and talk to me. My main criticism of this government is when you put forward a policy and you haven’t actually listened to anyone who lives this reality—you’re going to get it wrong.", "I understand the need for regulation. Right now, mine only reaches a maximum of 30 kilometres an hour. There are rules in place; they don’t get enforced. That’s another criticism I have for the government. It’s great to have rules, it’s great to have punishments, but if we don’t have a system that ensures follow-through, we’re not further ahead.", "And from my understanding, a lot of growth is from low-income folks finding this as a way out of poverty, a way for them to get around in an affordable way. So let’s not create red tape that disadvantages folks who are already trying to move their lives forward." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Sandy Shaw", "text": [ "Thank you for sharing your personal story of trying to keep your family members safe. As a mom and a grandmother, it’s a nightmare to think about your kids being unsafe. In Hamilton, and all of our communities, we’ve seen unnecessary tragedies. In Hamilton, we’ve had two kids killed on their way to school. This should never, ever have happened. I question the fact that this government wants to remove bike lanes without providing any evidence as to whether they are safe for people, for vulnerable road users, and as to whether or not they do make traffic slower. They have provided no evidence at all.", "Now we have this bill before us, and the Premier was asked whether the government wanted certain criteria to be met before removing lanes, and Ford said no. Really, what are we doing here? Why are they attacking bike lanes without evidence, any plans and any criteria for either removing them or building more?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Aislinn Clancy", "text": [ "I think that’s why I encourage people to use data. As a city councillor, I knew that if I counted on two hands and two feet, that’s probably 90% of the people that I hear from in my constituency, right? We all have people in our ridings who we hear from more than others. Those folks should not be owning the narrative. They should not making decisions. We should be measuring twice and cutting once. If we’re making decisions based on somebody’s discomfort with change, I say lean in.", "When I had someone who had a problem with a bike lane in my riding, I brought out the manager of active transportation. We looked at the bike lane. They were complaining because people were moving onto the other side. He was like, “You’re right. Why don’t we move it back? We’ll change the shape of it so we can address the concerns you have, measure to see if what you’re complaining about is actually fact or anecdotal, and create a solution together that doesn’t pit one person against another,” because it’s all of Ontario we’re here to serve, not those 20 people who we hear from most." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Brian Saunderson", "text": [ "I would like to pick up on this thread of bike lanes. It seems to me that there’s a broad interpretation that this act is closing bike lanes. I think that’s incorrect. What this act is trying to do is look at making sure that we intentionally preplan where bike lanes go and how they’re constructed.", "I take the member opposite’s comment about having her daughter ride to school with a cement truck next to her. I can tell you in my community of Collingwood, we’re a bike-friendly community; I think we’ve got bronze accreditation. We have very much active transportation with trails. In connecting our bike lanes, we’re looking at connecting trails so that people can move safely and we can separate the two users. Will the member opposite not agree that—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Thank you.", "A very quick response." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Aislinn Clancy", "text": [ "I find it quite insulting. I don’t know how your city runs, but my city has a very robust and well-educated transportation department. They didn’t decide to just slap a bike lane here or there. They put a lot of thought into it. I regret your overstep of the jurisdiction." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "It’s my pleasure to participate in this afternoon’s debate on Bill 212, which is before us this evening. It’s got a long title. I like the short title: Reducing Gridlock, Saving You Time Act, 2024.", "During the course of my very brief comments, I’m going to make some observations about the actual content of the bill itself. I’m going to make some comments about what the bill does regarding broadband. I’m going to make some comments about what the bill actually does on a practical level with respect to building highways faster. If I have a sufficient amount of time, I’m going to talk about the interactions between this provincial legislation and municipal bylaws, and I might have an opportunity, also, to make some comment about Indigenous consultation.", "Starting out with schedule 1, which is the schedule that deals with building broadband faster: I note that section 26.2 deals with the minister having the power to assign an easement “in respect of a designated broadband project to a distributor, proponent, or a telecommunications provider, within the meaning of the Telecommunications Act or any other entity, if the assignment is necessary to further the purposes of this act.”", "That is a method that is commonly used by governments around the globe. It is the creation of an easement. Maybe people have heard this phrase before: an easement is a section of land—my colleague from Simcoe-Grey is well aware of what that means. A person who has an easement has the right to put something in the easement, be it a waterline, be it a telecommunications line. But the owner of the easement—the owner of that land—is not deprived of use of that land. The owner of that land can continue to use that land, notwithstanding that there is an easement on the land. The easement simply provides that a person can put something, typically speaking, in the ground and not deprive the owner of the land from continuing to use the surface.", "1710", "That is the main concern of owners of land. They want to continue using the surface for purposes such as driveways, for farming and for other uses that the owner might want. This section or this schedule of the bill also provides for reimbursement to the crown—that is, reimbursement to the taxpayer. That’s a good structure to have in place as well.", "I’d like now to turn to schedule 2, which is the building highways faster portion of the bill. The purpose of schedule 2 is to expedite—I am reading straight from the bill itself: “The purpose of this act is to expedite the construction of priority highway projects by streamlining and supplementing existing processes in order to alleviate delays to the timely completion of such highway projects.”", "It’s a common quip or joke, or whatever you want to call it, across Canada that there are two seasons in Canada: There’s winter and construction. Those are the two seasons according to that joke. What we’re trying to do, Madam Speaker, is we’re trying to make sure that these construction projects are actually done faster—building highways faster. We’re trying to expedite these projects, so there are some practical criteria set out in this particular bill before us that would help us do that. I think that we can refer to, in our own minds, a few projects that have been very well expedited. The reason why they were completed fast is with 24-hour, around-the-clock construction. Because the best time to construct a highway is when people aren’t driving on it, obviously.", "I’m specifically reading from the bill, and section 4 of this particular schedule provides that “the minister may by notice require a utility company to take up, remove or change the location of utility infrastructure if ... the taking up, removing or changing in location is for the purposes of a priority highway project.”", "What does that mean? It’s not so common in my area, but in lots of areas of the project, there is already a utility that is in the way of a particular highway project. It’s commonly the situation where that particular utility is going to be interrupted for the period of time under which that highway is under construction. So obviously, you have to move the utility for the period of construction and maybe even move the utility permanently if the particular highway is going to remain there and interfere with the provision of that utility. This particular portion of the bill allows the minister to require that the utility company move the utility.", "What if we didn’t do that? Well, then a utility company could essentially hold up the building of a highway project indefinitely, and the whole thing could be tied up and mired with red tape and mired in even litigation and a court process. We certainly don’t want that to happen. We don’t want these things to be mired in those kinds of processes. We want these projects to be moving forward, to be expedited at a proper pace. That’s what that section does. If the utility company is required by the ministry to do that, the utility has the right to make submissions to the ministry by a specified date, including submissions in respect of any technical or other difficulties with completing the work by the date referred to.", "That’s another very practical function of this particular bill. Ideally, the situation would be that there would be some level of co-operation between the ministry and the construction team building the highway and they would co-operate with the utility company, and the utility company would show some co-operation back. They would agree on a schedule to move the utility and a method by which the utility is going to be moved. That is the ideal situation. Sometimes we don’t have the ideal situation so we have to have provisions in the act where there is an opportunity for the utility company, essentially, to push back, I will say.", "Then, there is another provision in this schedule of the bill which says that for any work that’s caused to be done in accordance with this section, the utility company shall compensate for the value of any loss or expense incurred. Compensate who? Well, compensate the taxpayer, obviously—compensate the cost.", "There’s also a provision in this schedule for site inspections, and that probably touches upon a little bit about what I just spoke about. When a highway is being constructed, it might oftentimes run into a utility and the utility has to be moved. Then there should be a meeting, and everybody goes down to the meeting, and they say, “Well, how are we going to do this?” Ideally, there will be a site inspection.", "A site inspection is actually a very common function in provincial legislation, and also in municipal legislation. For example, when it comes to the Drainage Act, there’s often a site inspection where people meet and discuss how the drain is going to be built. There might be some back-and-forth regarding who pays and who’s the main beneficiary, but the site inspection, of course, is a common function of provincial legislation, especially when it interacts with municipal functions.", "I’m now looking at the compensation section, which is 11(5). “Compensation dispute” is the title of that section. It says, “If the minister and the property owner do not agree on compensation, either of them may apply to the Ontario Land Tribunal to determine compensation.” I wanted to highlight that section, because there might be some people thinking, “Gosh, the ministry might be exercising some extraordinary powers to get these highways built,” and admittedly the whole purpose of this legislation is to expedite the construction of highways. But I wanted to highlight that section, because if there’s anybody going to suggest that somehow property owners are put out financially by anything, that’s just simply not true. None of the rights of property owners to apply to the Ontario Land Tribunal with regard to compensation are taken away. Any property owner who is affected in any way, shape or form by this legislation still has all of their compensation rights preserved by the legislation.", "I wanted to jump forward now to schedule 3 of the act. Schedule 3 refers to the intended Highway 413. I am now referring to section 4, which says that there will be a Indigenous consultation plan. That, in my view, is important as well. It says:", "“4(1) The minister shall prepare an Indigenous consultation plan that includes,", "“(a) a list of Indigenous communities that have or may have existing Aboriginal or treaty rights, as recognized and affirmed in section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982, that may be impacted by the Highway 413 project;", "“(b) a list of any Indigenous communities that may otherwise be interested in the Highway 413 project;...”", "I want to pause there for a second. That word, “interested,” is a technical legal term. You can’t say that you’re interested in something just because it piques your imagination or something. When that word, “interested,” is used, it means you have an interest in either compensation or some kind of rights. So when you have an “interest” in something, it means you have a legal interest, not just an intellectual interest or a curiosity. That’s what that refers to.", "“(c) the plan for,", "“(i) consulting with Indigenous communities referred to in clause (a) in respect of the impacts of the Highway 413 project, including any significant change, on existing Aboriginal or treaty rights, as recognized and affirmed in section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982, and", "“(ii) consulting with Indigenous communities referred to in clauses (a) and (b) in respect of the assessment of the impacts of the Highway 413 project and identification of mitigation required by section 5, the draft environmental impact assessment report prepared under section 6, any significant change and any draft addenda prepared under section 9,” all of which is to say that there is an Indigenous consultation plan that is required.", "This is in keeping with section 35 of the Constitution. I thought that was worth pointing out, as well, because these are significant projects and sometimes they do entail some legal interest on the part of Indigenous communities.", "1720", "J’aimerais offrir quelques mots en français, et j’aimerais souligner quelques arrêts de notre projet de loi, surtout la désignation de chantiers routiers prioritaires, la section « Livraison de biens et de services : construction 24 heures sur 24 ». L’arrêt que je souligne, c’est celui-ci :", "« Si un chantier routier prioritaire est désigné par voie de règlement pour l’application du présent article, toute restriction imposée par un règlement municipal qui empêche une personne de livrer des biens ou des services au chantier ou qui lui impose des restrictions à cet égard, notamment une restriction relative au bruit ou à l’utilisation de voies publiques relevant de la compétence de la municipalité, est sans effet dans la mesure où elle empêcherait ou restreindrait la livraison des biens ou des services. »", "Ça, c’est important, parce que c’est un pouvoir qui effectivement affecte les pouvoirs des municipalités, et quand on fait ça, c’est important de souligner le fait que les sections qui suivent ne détruisent pas entièrement les pouvoirs des municipalités, mais donnent des pouvoirs aux municipalités de continuer leurs fonctions importantes. J’aimerais souligner les mots qui indiquent cela :", "« (2) Malgré le paragraphe (1), les restrictions suivantes continuent de s’appliquer à l’égard de la livraison de biens et de services au chantier routier prioritaire désigné :", "« 1. Une restriction de poids sur un pont, un ponceau ou un ouvrage similaire.", "« 2. Une limitation de la vitesse.", "« 3. Une interdiction d’utilisation d’une voie publique relevant de la compétence d’une municipalité pour la circulation des véhicules en raison de travaux d’entretien ou de construction.", "« 4. Une interdiction, pendant trois jours au plus, d’utilisation d’une voie publique relevant de la compétence d’une municipalité en raison d’un événement de rue ou d’un événement spécial sur cette voie publique.", "« 5. Une restriction prescrite. »", "Tout cela pour dire que même s’il y a des restrictions sur les municipalités, des restrictions sur leurs pouvoirs, ce n’est pas une restriction absolue; nous avons conservé quelques pouvoirs des municipalités pour continuer leurs fonctions importantes.", "With the remaining time that I have, I’d like to offer some perhaps, I don’t know, philosophical observations regarding highway systems in North America, comparing those to the distribution system or the transportation system as it exists in Europe. It is often remarked upon that the European transportation system relies heavily on train traffic and that sometimes the European transportation system, which relies very heavily on trains, can deliver things without the necessity of building highways.", "There is a historic reason for that, and it is essentially because the train system in Europe was developed in order to serve the industrialization of that continent. When industrialization took place, the train systems were put in place and the routes for train systems were put in place. Of course, as I spoke at the very beginning of my speech about easements, the rail easements were put in place to make all that happen, and that’s why there is an integrated rail system in Europe which is very—I will use the phrase “has great interior lines,” which means you can get from the exterior across the continent very quickly.", "That is in contrast to the transportation system as it exists in North America because the industrialization of North America took place much later than the industrialization in Europe. When industrialization in North America took place, it took place at a time when the development of the automobile was in full force. There was little industrialization prior to the development of the automobile. The North American continent remained, for a great portion, an agrarian economy. Even as late as 1905 or 1906, 95% of Canadians made their living through subsistence agriculture. Industrialization came to our continent much later and when it did finally come to our continent, we had the full-fledged development of the automobile.", "The decision was made, and it was a conscientious decision on behalf of the United States government, that the United States should have a comprehensive highway network. That was a decision made immediately after World War II. It was made by the Eisenhower and Truman administrations. That’s where we get all these famous intersecting highways that criss-cross the United States. That was a decision that Canada was happy to go along with because, of course, our economy is integrated into the United States economy and not the European economy. Even if there were a time where our economy were integrated into the European economy, it was integrated in such a way that water travel was more important than rail travel. That’s why we had a great shipbuilding industry in Halifax, because of the incredible water systems that we have on the continent.", "But, as I said, as industrialization took place, that led to the growth of the highway system in the United States, Canada had to follow suit, and I think it’s a good thing we followed suit because imagine not being able to keep up with our American trading partners, imagine if we didn’t have a highway network that was, to a certain degree, integrated with the American highway network, how much more difficult it would be for us to make trade possible with the United States, which is still our number one trading partner? For all those reasons, it’s important to have a very fast and integrated highway network.", "That doesn’t preclude any other forms of transportation, and it certainly doesn’t preclude intermodal transportation. I have a great railway in my riding, the Essex Terminal Railway—everybody knows what it is. It’s a fantastic railway. It’s still operating today. In fact, it goes right down 2nd Concession where I grew up and terminates right at my constituency office. Quite frankly, I could step outside my constituency office, walk down the driveway, walk past the four wild turkeys that live on that property and walk down the railroad track right back to my house.", "That is a bit of a philosophical treatment of what’s before us today, Madam Speaker. I thank you very much for this opportunity." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Wayne Gates", "text": [ "I’m not really sure what the member was talking about for that 20 minutes, but I do have a question.", "Niagara Falls has 14 million visitors every single year. Tourism in Niagara creates 40,000 jobs in Niagara Falls, Niagara-on-the-Lake and Fort Erie. A majority of the visitors are coming from the GTA. Why is there nothing in this bill to deliver all-day, two-way GO trains all the way to Niagara Falls, which would also support and protect our environment by getting cars off the QEW?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "Perhaps the reason why the member from Niagara didn’t understand what I was saying was because I was speaking in French. That might have been one explanation. I won’t speculate on anything else.", "But I think that what the member from Niagara Falls is saying is that he supports the expansion of the transportation network in the province of Ontario, and he wishes that it would be even more extended to his area. I know that there are services that do go to his area, and what he is asking for are more. So maybe if he actually votes in favour of this legislation, we might see projects in the future—more and more projects in the future—that service the Niagara region and the growing wonderful tourism section that—the tourism possibilities that that creates." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Matthew Rae", "text": [ "Thank you to my colleague from Essex for his very in-depth deputation this afternoon on Bill 212. He mentioned that his constituency office—it sounds like it’s at the end of the line on the railway line, but I’m sure it’s a beautiful location in his riding.", "1730", "I want to ask the member about rural broadband. Obviously, it’s something very important in my riding and also in Essex, I’m sure, and our government’s making significant investments. Can you tell us a little bit more about how this bill will ensure we’re getting shovels in the ground and getting more communities and homes connected to rural broadband?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "Sure. That’s an excellent question from the member, and I’m sure that the residents of his rural riding are very appreciative of the steps that this government is making to ensure that we expand broadband across all of the province of Ontario and especially in rural areas.", "What this bill does is, it makes it actually easier for us to build broadband projects in the province of Ontario. I specifically referred to the section where a distributor, a component or a telecommunications service provider can be assigned an easement, which is the land route through which those services are built, and that that easement can be assigned and that compensation for that can also be ordered to be paid.", "These are very, very important functions to provide rural broadband to places like Essex county and to places all across Ontario which are rural and harder to serve. So I’m glad to see that that was included in this bill, and I think that people in rural communities across the province of Ontario will appreciate that." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Wayne Gates", "text": [ "I’m not sure if it was in what he talked about, but I know a number of their members had talked about the fact that they want to twin the Garden City Skyway. I want to be clear, seeing I’m from Niagara Falls but I lived in St. Catharines for a long time too: There is no problem with traffic on the Garden City Skyway as we stand today. The people in Niagara know it; everybody knows it.", "But the problem that we have—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "The Associate Minister of Energy-Intensive Industries will come to order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Wayne Gates", "text": [ "The problem that we have is that there was an environmental study in 2016 that the deck of the Garden City Skyway should have been replaced by 2025. Well, 2025 is exactly six weeks from now, and I haven’t seen the deck replaced. My concern is the safety of the Garden City Skyway.", "So my question to the member—", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Order." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Wayne Gates", "text": [ "Some guy’s chirping over there, but I can’t see who it is.", "To the member: Are you aware that it’s not a traffic issue, it’s an environmental study that the deck should have been replaced in 2025?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "Well, if I understand the member’s question, it’s similar to the first question, in that he would like more services extended to the Niagara Peninsula and he’s referred exactly to the Garden City Skyway, which is clearly a concern that’s very dear to his heart.", "Although there’s nothing in this bill that specifically says that we’re going to build the Garden City Skyway this way or that way, bills like this make projects such as that easier and faster to complete. That is why the opposition members should vote in favour of this bill, because at such a time where such a project is engaged in anywhere in the province of Ontario, whether it’s the Garden City Skyway or anywhere else in the province of Ontario, when and if it becomes a priority project, this will make it more expeditious to build.", "So I think that’s a great observation for the member to make, and I think it’s another great reason for the opposition to vote in favour of this bill so that that member can have the assurance that, in the future, projects such as the one he mentions get expeditious treatment." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Ric Bresee", "text": [ "Unfortunately, across the province, we have seen tremendous increases in car theft. We know that damage to our economy, that it’s damaging to all of our insurance rates and is, quite simply, frightening to many of our residents.", "I know the member is a lawyer. I’m wondering if he could speak to the activities that this government is doing with regard to combatting auto theft in Ontario." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "That’s a great question. First of all, we are increasing our funding to the police. Not everybody believes in increasing funding to the police, but I certainly do believe in increasing funding for the police. One of the most important things that we’re doing to combat auto theft in the province of Ontario is to give our police the tools to enforce the law, because they will enforce the law if they have the proper tools.", "Again, not everybody supports the police receiving the proper tools to enforce the law, but I certainly do because the police are the people who are protecting us from violent crime. They’re also the people who are protecting us from the kind of theft that none of us wants to experience.", "I want to point out that one great project that would be great for the federal government to undertake is to inspect the Port of Montreal. That would be a great project." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "I want to thank the member for his remarks. I’m just wondering, because I know he has a sharp legal mind, if he could help me resolve a contradiction that I see from the Premier that relates to this legislation.", "At one point recently, the Premier told the province the following about transit-oriented hubs, which seems to be at odds with this legislation. He said: “Personally, I don’t think the province knows best all the time. We should not be dictating to great mayors when it comes to building along transit lines,” even though the government had promised a transit housing strategy.", "Now, all of a sudden, when it comes to active transportation infrastructures, the Premier knows best. The Premier knows better than the transportation departments that the member for Kitchener Centre was talking about. The Premier knows better than the people that are entrusted—the non-partisan civil service—to give the best advice to city councillors.", "Why is the Premier at odds with, on the one hand, respecting municipalities and, on the other, overreaching and taking their rights away?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "I respect that question from the member from Ottawa Centre. It is a fair question.", "I think that all members in this House—I can tell you, I get it all the time. I get requests from the taxpayers in the municipalities that I represent. I get requests all the time from taxpayers who want the province to intervene to overrule a decision of this municipality or overrule the decision of that municipality. I get requests all the time for the province to intervene and overrule a decision of the university of fill-in-the-blank or to overrule the decision of a particular school board.", "I have to remind the taxpayers of my municipality that we cannot as the provincial government constantly intervene in every single situation. But it is the fact of the matter that municipalities are the creature of provincial legislation, and from time to time, it is important for the province to intervene, and we do." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Very quick question?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Brian Saunderson", "text": [ "I would like to pick up on that question and ask the member: Does he see an analogy or a comparative aspect with planning legislation that designates how municipalities will implement planning and growth to looking at how bike lanes would be integrated with the current transportation strategies?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Anthony Leardi", "text": [ "Yes. Listen, every municipality needs to have an official plan; I am certainly engaged in those discussions. A municipality can certainly put a bike plan inside of its official plan, and make that part of its official plan and seek the co-operation of the provincial government and provincial legislation as well.", "But these are matters of—I won’t describe them as matters of discussion or give and take. Sometimes there are priorities that must rule over other considerations. And again, I have no hesitation in saying that from time to time, it becomes necessary for the provincial government to exercise its authority and to do so." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "Let’s talk about Bill 212 and what it does for road safety and what it doesn’t do.", "I write a column for the community every week in our newsletter, and I described my experience in this House last week as going through a trip through the Twilight Zone. I don’t know if anybody else in this House is a huge fan of that show, but I love that show. I think Rod Serling is one of the underrated geniuses of 20th-century television. He used satire, he used absurdism, he used surrealism, he used horror, he used suspense, often to bring social commentary to topical issues not just in the United States but around North America—and, you could argue, around the world, although the Americans often think they can dictate to the world. Don’t take me too far. I’m not a TV critic.", "My point is this: Last week was like a trip into the Twilight Zone. Why? Because the Premier had set the stage for this discussion on road safety we’re having right now by ruminating about the idea of a tunnel under the 401. Do people remember that? He was standing in front of the 401 that, yes, was jammed with traffic, and he was standing with ministers. I’ve got to say, with a big part of my heart, I felt bad for those ministers because there he is, bloviating about the idea of a tunnel under the 401, like, “I’m going to do an estimate about a back-of-the-napkin plan for a tunnel under the 401.”", "It had to be embarrassing, because the biggest tunnel that engineers know of in North American construction and engineering history is the Big Dig in Boston. The Big Dig in Boston was literally—depending upon the Premier’s ambition for this, it might have been a quarter of what the Premier’s proposing. So when people were trying to make sense of what he was figuring out he was studying the feasibility of, they were talking about a $55-billion project that might be finished in 15 to 18 years—might—while people are stuck in traffic on the 401.", "1740", "You know, the thing about the 401 that’s really problematic? It’s all the bike lanes on the 401. My God, if you guys would just remove the bike lanes off the 401, those poor drivers would just be able to get where they’re going so much faster.", "I’m just trying to articulate a perspective from the Twilight Zone, because that’s really what the poor people of Ontario had to deal with. Rod Serling would have loved that speech the Premier gave.", "The fact of the matter is this: We do have gridlock in our province, and the origin of that gridlock is not active transportation lanes. The origin of that gridlock is this government’s failed transit plans. I can’t recall another government in Canadian history that has done more press conferences talking about aspirational transit plans than this government. Meanwhile, the people who actually conduct the buses, that fix the buses, that conduct the streetcars, that fix the streetcars, the riders that rely—your city here. Here in Toronto, I think it’s 2.5 million users a day. That’s a lot of people relying on public transit in the greater area of Toronto. But the mayor of Toronto had to literally strong-arm this government to get its own deal, to get $330 million into the Toronto Transit Commission, because there’s a formidable leader of this city.", "But in my city, we’re still waiting. We’re still waiting in gridlock in our city because we have no new money to operate transit. It’s so bad—there’s a story running in CBC today—that of the trips that were scheduled for a given week last week, 8,210 planned daily trips, 348 were cancelled on Monday, 297 cancelled on Tuesday and 270 of those cancelled on Wednesday. Why? Because the government keeps cutting money to the operational funds of OC Transpo. That is not just an Ottawa story. It’s a London story. It’s a Windsor story. It’s a Sudbury story. It’s a Peterborough story. It’s a Brampton story. We have a government that loves to cut ribbons about aspirational transit plans that may happen at some point soon, but the actual buses and streetcars that we’ve got are being shortchanged.", "And then guess what people do? Guess what students going to college or university do? Guess what people getting around their communities do? They take a car. They take an Uber. The last estimates that I know of for 401 usage is that about 85% of the users on a given day—just over a million users—are single-passenger occupants of their car—I’m sure, frustrated. But they’re not going to be helped by the Twilight Zone ambitions of the Premier, who, on the one hand, is talking about this fantastic idea, that must have been dreamt up over breakfast, and on the other hand, you’ve got people who are actually stuck. People are mad for being stuck, and they have a right to be mad for being stuck. But the Premier is plunging this House, this esteemed House, into a Twilight Zone and, frankly, making a mockery of our democracy. It’s embarrassing. It’s embarrassing to answer questions from residents back home about a 401 tunnel.", "But I always say back to people who’ve texted or called or emailed, “You know, you have to remember the following about this Premier: It’s not about actually doing something. Rather, like Mr. Trump has done in the United States, it’s about saying something ridiculous so you get all of the attention and we don’t talk about serious ideas.”", "We don’t talk about serious ideas, like taking trucks off the 401 and putting them on the 407 and subsidizing them, or making sure public transit is regular and affordable so people could actually use it. These are the things—the One Fare movement was a win for the TTC riders; the Minister of Energy just mentioned this. I salute the Toronto transit riders for winning that One Fare initiative. But it’s difficult, if someone is commuting from Scarborough into downtown Toronto, to be waiting for their schedule because this government continues—we’re doing a little bit better in Toronto, thanks to Mayor Chow—to lowball the operating funds for public transit. That is the reason people are stuck in traffic.", "It’s interesting. In Etobicoke, there was a public meeting recently about this whole war on bike lanes. It was fascinating, because the Premier, once again into the Twilight Zone, has been saying all the time, “Oh, my god. One of the most dangerous things about these woke bike lanes is that first responders are being delayed in responding to accidents.”", "Do you know what was interesting about that town hall, hosted by Deputy Mayor Amber Morley, was that the local fire chief took the stage and said, “Actually, our response times are faster with the active transport lanes.” Why? Because they’ve been built to a width that allows the paramedic bus or the police car to get through and to get where they need to go quickly. The delay in response times in traffic, according to the city staff who provided the estimates, are about five minutes delayed going eastbound and three minutes delayed going westbound. That’s reality. That’s not the Twilight Zone; that’s reality.", "We are stuck in traffic out there because this government continues to underfund operating transit. They’re addicted to press conferences, but they’re not providing funds for transit. They have put a lot of faith in Phil Verster and his army of executives at Metrolinx.", "I have a joke for you, Speaker, a joke for the House. How many Metrolinx executives does it take change a light does it get to change a light bulb? Anybody know the answer? It’s difficult to say, but my best guess is 103: 82 vice-presidents—up from 27, six years ago—19 C-suite executives and a Premier willing to authorize the paycheques. But I guess we’re assuming that those overpaid, overstuffed executives on the public dime are actually going to be able to change a light bulb.", "The last job Mr. Verster had, before the Liberals hired him to run the public transit system of Metrolinx when they were in office here, was Scottish rail. Do you know what’s interesting? The people of Scotland chased Mr. Verster out of their country because they pressed for information. They found out Mr. Verster was making an incredible amount of money, north of $300,000 Canadian. They found he had a housing allowance. He had a personal car. He had a clothing allowance. He had private health care for himself and all his family.", "Scottish people—I was raised in a Presbyterian household; let me tell you, Scottish people don’t put up with that nonsense. He was run out of Scotland in disgrace and the Liberals hired him, and this government has kept him in power.", "In what universe does a Conservative government reward someone who can’t finish a transit project? The Eglington Crosstown, the Hurontario, the Ontario Line they keep talking about, the tunnelling for which being complete. As the transit critic for the province, I get to talk to transit experts from around the world. I’ve got to tell you what they say when they look at Ontario. They think Ontario has become the most expensive place to build transit in the world because of the vultures of the consultants, the tapeworms of all of these people—like, consultants managing consultants in Metrolinx. You know that the marketing department at Metrolinx on its own is more than 400 staff—the marketing department. So embarrassed Metrolinx executives approach me, approach us, because they can’t believe what they’re seeing. But this Conservative government that purports to care about the public purse keeps Mr. Verster in power. While they do, traffic is delayed.", "Let’s talk about the genius idea inside the Twilight Zone to wage a war on safe infrastructure and bike lanes. I want to quote the words that I cited earlier in debate from the Premier himself. Outside this very building, in November 2017, he took a bike ride with the federal leader of the NDP, Jagmeet Singh. It used to be on TVO’s Blind Date episode. You used to be able to go find the episode. Curiously, you can’t right now. However, people have managed to track it down and the Premier was following—if people know, outside here at Queen’s Park, there’s protective bike infrastructure. But there’s a moment when you merge onto University when you have to take a bit of a risk, right? You go across the road, and you can see in the video there’s a moment when the Premier kind of swerved into traffic a little bit and swerved back. He admitted that he hadn’t been on a bike in a long time. These were his words to the TVO camera crew when he was finished his ride with Jagmeet: “You’re nervous when there’s no bike lanes. At least I was. We have to do everything we can to make there’s never a death in our city. One death is too many when it comes to bicycle riders.”", "Wow. That’s a very interesting perspective, having actually gone into the experience of trying to ride a bike in a major city in our province. So what’s behind the change of mind? What has plunged us into the Twilight Zone seven years later? The best answer I’ve been able to give constituents back home is crass politics. This government is taking advantage of people’s justifiable frustrations with traffic and gridlock and turning them not on viable solutions like public transit and encouraging trucks onto the 407; they’re telling them to blame cyclists. They’re telling them to blame wheelchair users. They’re telling them to blame people who scooter. And that’s, frankly, a shameful way to behave. It’s a shameful way to behave.", "1750", "I honestly believe—I want to believe that everybody in this House cares that people be able to get around their communities and get home safely at the end of the day. But what the Premier has done, by plunging us into a debate without any evidence, not a shred of proof—and I’ll get into a couple of little blurbs of proof he’s attempted—he is actually putting people’s lives at risk. If he’s going to go into municipalities, claiming he knows better than municipalities and remove safe infrastructure, he’s going to be putting people’s lives at risk.", "We’ve talked a lot about cyclists, Speaker, and they’ve been outspoken in the last couple of weeks. I want to talk about pedestrians; in particular, I want to talk about seniors. I want to talk about my good friend here from St. Catharines and her mom, Pat Lindal, who was crossing the street in St. Catharines in front of an elementary school—this way, Speaker—and a car thought they could speed quickly and turn right in front of Pat. Well, they collided with Pat, almost a direct hit. She was knocked 50 feet into the opposite sidewalk and missed a fire hydrant by about a foot. She had a broken tibia; she had a broken clavicle; she had pins in her leg. The witnesses who saw this said that she looked like a ragdoll in the air. Seven months she was in hospital—seven months.", "Was there any consequence for this reckless driver? Did the reckless driver have their licence mandatorily suspended for a year? Were they required to witness a victim impact statement from Pat? No. I proposed such legislation before this House with Bill 40, but the government voted against that legislation, and they’re ignoring Pat now.", "I’ll think about others, because there are many others. I’ll think about a six-year-old who was killed in Tweed—a six-year-old. I see the member for the area in this House today—a six-year-old killed in Tweed on September 2. Will there be any mandatory driver’s licence suspension for that person who killed that six-year-old in Tweed? Will there be any responsibility for that person to volunteer to become a better driver? No, not in this bill.", "I also learned about Charlotte Light, a 14-year-old killed on County Road 2 in Long Sault, just outside Cornwall. I know the family." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Nolan Quinn", "text": [ "That’s a highway. That’s a highway. Watch where you’re going." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "The member is saying, Speaker, in debate that it’s a highway, therefore you can mow a cyclist down, I guess. That’s the claim.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "But this cyclist, this 14-year-old beloved cyclist, Charlotte Light, oldest sibling in a family of five—I know the family. I know the uncle, a personal friend. Will there be any mandatory driver re-education for the person who committed this incident? To their credit, they stayed at the scene. The answer is no, and this bill will not require that. Will there be any restorative justice?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Stephen Lecce", "text": [ "Like a mandatory minimum sentence." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "The minister’s joking; I’m not joking. I’m actually saying, I proposed legislation before this House based on best practices elsewhere in the world that would say to someone who’s committed a highly dangerous and reckless act with their car, “Commit yourself to being better.” It’s reasonable legislation, but the government voted it down.", "I can tell you right now that this young woman is missed by her community, missed by her uncle who’s a personal friend of mine.", "Speaker, the numbers in the real world, outside the Twilight Zone: Ministry of Transportation Ontario statistics tell us that last year, 49,106 incidents were caused by reckless drivers. People were either killed or seriously injured. That is a rate of 134 a day, and the members opposite have said—and I bet in questions will still say—that we have the safest streets in the world. Well, if you’re comfortable with the rate of 134 people being hurt or killed every day, then, yes, but that means you’re governing from the Twilight Zone. You’re not governing in reality.", "I look to governments in Finland, I look to governments in Denmark, who set the mark where my city has set it: Vision Zero. The goal is that no one gets—" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. Trevor Jones", "text": [ "Sweden." ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Joel Harden", "text": [ "—Sweden has embraced the vision too; I take the member’s point—hurt or killed on their way home.", "It’s not just cyclists, wheelchair users, pedestrians. It is road workers and construction workers. It is first responders. I’ve talked to police, paramedics, fire who have recounted horrible incidents of reckless behaviour behind the wheel, but as long as there’s no criminal intent, there’s no criminal consequence—there is no serious consequence, I should say, correcting my words just now.", "We know that driving should be seen as a privilege, regardless of what vehicle you drive. It’s a privilege, not a right, but right now in Ontario, if you critically injure or kill someone with your car, it’s a few hundred dollars of a fine and you hope you have a good day in court if you’re trying to support justice for the aggrieved party, and that is unacceptable. It’s unacceptable, and there’s nothing in this legislation to change that.", "The Premier is causing a fight that is unnecessary—unnecessary. I believe in the transportation departments of the municipalities of this province, the 440 municipalities, who we entrust to ensure safety, I believe in the first responders that serve those communities, but I also know that, all too often, tragedies continue to happen. As the critic for this area, I will not be happy with that, and I wish my friends opposite not to be happy with it either because there are things we can work on together to fix it.", "The big thing I think we need to fix is getting to the front bench of this government and encouraging them to speak in reality and evidence and not from the perspective of the Twilight Zone—quit besmirching a wonderful show; sorry, I’ll go for levity there.", "Here is my point as I wrap up: I know, increasingly, people in this province want choice with how they get around our communities. I am a driver, I am a cyclist, I am a pedestrian. People want to have that choice. Particularly when your children are involved or when your mom or dad, who may be frail, are involved, you want to make sure there is a safe way in which they can get around, and when someone hurts or harms them, you want to make sure that those people are held accountable.", "This is our opportunity. When this bill goes to committee, I will be coming with amendments—you better believe it—based upon good evidence to make sure that we do right by those folks; we do right by Charlotte; we do right by Serene Summers, who was critically injured in my city in 2022 by a driver who fled the scene; and we do right by Audrey Cameron, who was hit as a pedestrian crossing Carling Avenue back in September, who’s going to live with brain injuries for the rest of her life. There’s just too much carnage happening in our streets, and I’m disappointed, frankly, that the government isn’t acknowledging that carnage.", "All of these children of our province are all our children. All the elders of our province are all our elders. The elders built everything we have here. Everything we have here, we got from our elders, so we need to make sure they don’t end up like Pat, and that’s on us—that’s on us.", "We need to fix this bill at committee, and I invite debate.", "Second reading debate deemed adjourned." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bhutila Karpoche)", "text": [ "Thank you. Seeing that it is now 6 o’clock, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9 a.m.", "The House adjourned at 1758.", "", "", "", "" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "Would the Minister of Labour, Immigration, Training and Skills Development care to lead off the debate." ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. David Piccini", "text": [ "It’s an honour to rise for third reading of Bill 190, Working for Workers Five Act.", "Speaker, I just want to start by saying thank you for your service. We will miss you. You have been a great mentor, friend, for so many of us and I know, most importantly, for the people you serve, so thank you.", "I will be dividing my time with the parliamentary assistant, the great member for Ajax. I look forward to continuing to work with her. I know we’ve got our critic here today as well. We’ve got a good team. We’ll be talking workers in this great province of Ontario.", "I want to acknowledge the support of the member for Ajax and her instrumental role in this bill: her leadership, her advocacy in particular for women in the workplace and, most importantly, for our next generation. She’s brought a lot of skill and thought to this bill and in particular the portion on apprenticeships, and I look forward to speaking about that later. But thank you so much for your friendship and leadership on this.", "I also want to thank the Premier for his leadership, for always keeping an open door, always returning the calls of workers in this province and enabling our ministry to continue the incredible work that we do. The team: Deputy Meredith and our team at labour, immigration, training and skills development, the incredible public servants who work there every day. And last but certainly not least, my ministerial office, political office team, who have worked many long hours to make this bill possible. I’m very grateful for them.", "Speaker, I want to just close on our thanks by acknowledging that this is a team sport and a team effort. We have, as I mentioned, the members for Ajax, King–Vaughan, Brampton Centre, Brantford–Brant, Scarborough Centre; folks speaking to the bill today—Mississauga–Erin Mills, Peterborough–Kawartha, Thunder Bay–Atikokan, Mississauga–Malton; and all of the caucus and cabinet colleagues who have contributed to this bill. But most importantly to the workers: firefighters, unions, employers, newcomers, businesses, industry associations and so many more, all of whom are counting on us to do the right thing, who are helping us to deliver better training, better jobs with a bigger paycheque and a better future in this great province of Ontario.", "The government is building on the progress we’ve made in previous Working for Workers bills. As I’ve often said, we’re getting to the point where we’ve almost had more trilogies than the Harry Potter series, because it keeps getting better and better and better. We’re doing this, Speaker, because these first-in-Canada measures that I’m going to speak to today would, if passed, open pathways into the skilled trades, remove barriers to employment, protect front-line heroes and workers and support women at work. This new bill builds on the strong success of our previous Working for Workers bills that this House passed in 2021, 2022, 2023, and again this past March.", "The current legislative package contains a number of regulatory amendments that would bring meaningful change to assist people in finding good jobs, increasing worker protection and supporting newcomers in this province of Ontario. It’s not lost on anyone that, as I speak to that today, we’re set to find out news from the federal government—who have not communicated to us or any of the provinces—on some of the changes that they will be making today. But I look forward to that briefing.", "We’re introducing new measures that would make it easier for youth and others to get on a fast-track to well-paying careers in the skilled trades, proposing to change and remove barriers to employment. In our Working for Workers Five Act, if passed, we’ll include wildland firefighters, we’ll include investigators in presumptive coverage for PTSD. Beyond these legislative changes, we have also made regulatory changes to expand presumptive coverage for heart injuries and occupational cancers to wildland firefighters and wildland fire investigators.", "Our bill, if passed, would support women at work, especially women who currently represent only one in 10 workers in the skilled trades. This bill would advance overall workplace fairness, discourage employers from ghosting job seekers and increase fines for employment standards violations to the highest levels in Canada. It would protect job seekers, elevate the common courtesy of fairness and transparency and help get more people into long-term rewarding careers by continuing to put workers first. We can spread opportunity and good-paying jobs, strengthen worker protection and supports across Ontario and tackle the skilled trades labour shortage and promote economic growth.", "I want to lead off and start first by talking about front-line heroes and workers. In reviewing the details of this bill and complementary measures, there are some important people we must talk about first and lead off: those heroes. These are the people who ensure we sleep safely at night and provide the reassurance when we most need help in our lives. I’m speaking, of course, of those who risk their lives for ours, Ontario’s firefighters. They run towards danger as we run from it. In every corner of our province, firefighters, fire investigators and volunteers put their lives on the line to keep our families and keep our communities safe. These front-line heroes deserve a government that values their service and sacrifice. They have more than earned the stronger protection—the more expansive coverage and protection that we are proposing in this bill.", "In the time that I’ve been Minister of Labour, Immigration, Training and Skills Development, I have listened to firefighters’ concerns. I’ve heard from municipal firefighters, investigators and volunteers, as well as wildland firefighters and investigators, including concerns about getting the supports they need and deserve if they fall ill from disease. They are at higher risk because of the dangerous work they do to keep us safe—the occupational exposures that they are subject to. That’s why our government is proposing to change the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act that would reduce the duration of employment required prior to the diagnosis for entitlement to presumptive coverage for primary-site skin cancer from 15 to 10 years, once again leading Canada with the lowest duration of time served in the country.", "I think it’s important to note there, Speaker, because I was recently at a meeting of Ministers of Labour where this was brought up, and they almost said, “You’ve got to slow down in Ontario because you’re making the rest of us look bad.” I don’t view it that way. I think Ontario leading the way sets a high benchmark for the rest of the country to follow. But we don’t do it just because, Speaker; we do it because we’re challenged. We’re challenged by the great men and women who protect our communities. I want to give a special shout-out to the OPFFA for their incredible advocacy to their members, who are fighting fires across Ontario, and the incredible work that they do to advocate for firefighters, because behind this advocacy is a story of a firefighter fighting a disease as a result of occupational exposure, who, at their core, want to make sure they are supported, and their families—most importantly, their families and their loved ones.", "0910", "If passed, the changes we’re proposing would allow more firefighters and investigators suffering from occupational cancers to access the WSIB benefits and services they need and deserve—again, serving those who serve.", "Growing scientific evidence shows that firefighters, including wildland firefighters, are at increased risk of developing skin cancer because of their exposure to carcinogens and various hydrocarbons found in fireground dust. The proposal builds on the government’s progress from four previous Working for Workers acts.", "In June 2023, Ontario expanded presumptive occupational cancer coverage for firefighters and fire investigators to include primary site thyroid and pancreatic cancers, making it faster and easier for them to gain WSIB compensation and services.", "The Working for Workers Four Act lowered the required employment period prior to diagnosis from primary-site esophageal cancer from 25 to 15 years. That was a very significant and emotional announcement in Welland, and I know how many people were instrumental in that.", "I’d like to take the opportunity to again thank the member for Thunder Bay–Atikokan, Kevin Holland, for all of his incredible advocacy and leadership on this file. Not only is Kevin Holland a volunteer firefighter, but he has been a strong advocate for those firefighters. He has had more ministers in Thunder Bay, more colleagues, than I think we could shake a stick at, and he’s now a member who has done such a remarkable job to advocate for his community. It’s not just about bringing ministers up, it’s about bringing colleagues in this place to share the stories of the people you serve, and he has done a remarkable job at this.", "In this bill, I’m introducing legislative changes to the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act that includes wildland firefighters and wildland fire investigators in the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board presumptive coverage for PTSD. This is further complemented by a regulatory change to the firefighters regulation to include wildland firefighters and investigators in presumptive WSIB coverage for occupational cancers and heart injuries.", "Our wildland firefighters need the support they deserve for the heroic work that they do. Over 1,000 people worked as wildland firefighters and investigators during the 2023 wildland fire season. Of course, in March 2024, we announced an investment of over $5 million to attract, retain and recognize wildland firefighters and their staff. I know everyone in this House today sees the importance of standing with these front-line heroes.", "My mission, and that of our entire government, is to build a province that leaves no one behind. This was the motivation when we created our ability to super index WSIB benefits above the annual rate of inflation so sick heroes can get the support that they need and focus on their health and not struggle with the cost of living.", "This cost of living is something we hear about so often at the doors, and really drives the motivations of this government to put more money back into people’s pockets. It’s a fundamental belief that when you empower people to do more with their hard-earned dollars and put more money back into their pockets, we can drive a thriving economy.", "It’s not lost on me, or anyone, I think, when we look to the progress as a government, that by putting $8 billion back into the economy, we have grown revenue to over $214 billion from just over $150 billion. That’s truly remarkable. When we do that, we can do more for workers—because every worker deserves to come home safely at the end of their shift.", "I want to acknowledge, on the firefighter work that we’ve been doing, the partnership. This is a team piece and a team sport. I’m so grateful to have this opportunity, but it has been made special because of the people I’ve gotten to know as a member and as a minister.", "Some of those special people I want to recognize: Greg Horton, Bob McCutcheon, Gavin Jacklyn, Dan Worrall and so many more. Their leadership to stand up for firefighters, to take the time to educate the people of this place to the unique challenges they face—they deserve recognition. Thank you for your leadership.", "Behind their leadership are stories in our own communities. I’m looking forward to hosting, on Monday, here in this place, if passed—I look forward to bringing colleagues from my own community. I think to Rick Ash, a volunteer firefighter in Hamilton township; Jeff Briggs, who is the OPFFA union rep in Cobourg who has been working with Rick battling on occupational exposure. These are the stories. I first met Rick at the fish ladder in Cobourg, volunteering his time, teaching a next generation the importance of angling—I didn’t know this at the time. We’re grateful for our volunteer firefighters in Northumberland county, Peterborough county and beyond, and I want to thank Rick for his service, and I look forward to having him here at Queen’s Park.", "In addition to protecting front-line heroes, one of perhaps the most rewarding things I’ve gotten to do in the ministry, working with the incredible team at MLITSD, has been opening pathways to the skilled trades. I want to talk now about another everyday hero: men and women in the skilled trades. For too long—too long—skilled trades, construction and manufacturing were viewed as a sort of plan B. Not anymore. Under the leadership of this Premier, we are promoting multiple career pathways, because when you have a job in the trades, you have a career for life—a career for life.", "They are the heroes building the stronger province we want: the hospitals, the schools in communities like mine, the new hospital we’re fighting for in Campbellford, new schools that we so desperately need, new roads, highways, bridges, public transit—I mean, just stop and think for a second—the tunnelling going on right now on the Ontario Line, the largest low-carbon public transit project in North America—the largest—happening right here in our province, the largest-ever investment—the largest investment—in public transit in Ontario’s history.", "Talk to the skilled trades men or women, for example, who are working on that tunnel project taking home six-figure salaries. At the age of 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, you can be earning six figures. You can be economically self-sufficient. You can have agency, purpose, stand on your own two feet and drive a meaningful career. Not only that, but you can look back and be part of a generation that can proudly stand back and say, “I built that. I built that important piece of Ontario—part of the fabric that makes this province great.”", "I’m grateful for those who came before us. Why are we pushing people into pathways into the trades? Because one in three—one in three—journeypersons are retiring. We stand on the golden generation of those men and women in the skilled trades who came before us, who built this building, who built this province.", "I think to my own family story. There’s nothing special about my own story, but my own grandfather came here and worked in the trades, built a life and a family for his son and now his grandson who stands here in this place. That is the story of so many in Ontario and in Canada.", "Our government is taking policy and legislative measures to attract more young people in the skilled trades. Building on the Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program, OYAP, we’re creating a new stream called the focused apprenticeship into the skilled trades, or FAST. It will allow students in grade 11 and grade 12 to participate in more apprenticeship learning. Most importantly, it will allow the learning that they do in that apprenticeship, those hours, to count toward their level 1 C of Q—those levels that you take before becoming certified in the skilled trades.", "I want to use my own experience or that of Raven and Phoenix that I met at St. Mary’s in Cobourg. I think back to my own experience, I could take a course that would count towards a dual credit, count towards my university degree. If we’re going to say a life in the trades, a career in the trades, is as important as all of the other equally as rewarding job paths, then why can’t we offer those same experiences for those who pursue their passions in the trades.", "0920", "Today, if this bill passes, we will be able to be do that in the province of Ontario, and I’m optimistic that, in 2025, we’re going to see this happen. I’ve got a feeling this place is going to pass this bill. I don’t want to presume it, but I know because we’ve been working with members of the opposition on this bill, we’ve been working with members all over this House. This piece, for our next generation, surely we can put our partisanship aside and support this.", "Graduates would receive a new seal on their Ontario secondary school diploma to signify their successful completion, recognize their dedication to learning the skilled trades. It’s part of the Premier’s 2023 commitment to expanding options for students entering the skilled trades.", "I want to give a special shout-out to Principal Barker, Alex Duketow, Mr. Kightley and the incredible team at St. Mary Catholic Secondary School in Cobourg. I was just there last week—two weeks ago, I think—to see the great work that they’re doing with junior achievement—John McNutt, Wayne Snow and the great team empowering youth. I referenced Raven and Phoenix, two young women. I want to take a moment to pause—women in the trades. We cannot build the things we want to build ignoring 50% of our workforce, and these two young women, boy, if the look on their face and the quality of that handshake would dictate their future, they are set up for success. They had purpose in their eyes and that incredible team at St. Mary’s was moulding the hearts and minds of our next generation and setting them up for success.", "We’ll make it easier to find apprenticeship opportunities for those young girls by launching a new online job-matching portal for potential apprentices, because it’s more than just the big environments we see in the GTA, it’s the incredible job union partners are doing, college partners are doing in rural Ontario. When I think to Devries in Brockville, in Kemptville, that I visited with the member for Leeds–Grenville. When I think to Henderson Construction in my own community, I think to contractors, to the small electrical shop, a one-, two-, three-person operation—how are they going to succession plan if they don’t take on apprentices and mould that next generation? With our new online job-matching portal, we can match those apprentices seeking employer sponsors with those employers seeking apprentices. This will be a game-changer and a first in Ontario because we don’t have a dedicated provincial system to match those apprentices with employer sponsors today, but we will thanks to the leadership of this Premier.", "We’re proposing additional measures to increase access to apprenticeship training for individuals who cannot meet academic entry requirements to register as an apprentice. This would create alternative pathways. When I talk about academic credentialing, I’m not talking about those in high school today. I’m talking about those who are here, for example permanent residents, Ukrainians, people who fled war-torn countries, who didn’t stop to say, as bombs were dropping, “Oh, I’ve got to bring my diploma, my degree.” I couldn’t tell you, if I had to leave Ontario today, where mine is—I’m embarrassed to say that, I should know. We have to have alternative pathways to acknowledge competency. One of the biggest challenges we face with respect to our GDP and lost opportunities is not leveraging the talent of those who are in Ontario today who are under-employed.", "In an effort to tackle that, we are making changes and future regulations under the Building Opportunities in the Skilled Trades Act to launch pathways so that those who have skill sets and competencies can better join the ranks of the men and women in the skilled trades who we so desperately need in Ontario.", "To meet this challenge, not only are we making these changes, but we’ve made the largest investment into the skilled trades in this province’s history: a $1.5-billion investment with the Skills Development Fund, both the training and the capital stream. For the first time ever, we’re investing in this province in training halls, in union training centres and we’re building a bigger coalition as a result.", "Premier Ford had a number of building trades endorsements in the last election because they know that their paycheque, their job and their future success depend on a government that says yes to building, yes to getting shovels in the ground, yes to having the difficult conversations and attention we so desperately need from all partners—municipal and federal, and regulatory bodies—to get those shovels in the ground and to get men and women into the workforce, working, taking home a paycheque.", "To date, we’ve helped people with better jobs, better training, bigger paycheques: over 92,000 manufacturing workers; 66,000 construction workers; 36,000 PSWs; 27,000 mining, quarrying and oil and gas extraction workers.", "This bill includes measures to make it a bit easier to get into the trades, but we’re not stopping there. Another important measure is the tech ed requirement to earn your Ontario secondary school diploma, again led by my colleague the Minister of Education. I want to acknowledge the work that has been done there. You will hear more about that from the member from Ajax, but this is a remarkable new move, bringing shop class back to high schools, mandating a tech ed class.", "Common sense isn’t all that common, but imagine a next generation that are actually learning to use their hands, learning in a tech class, learning financial literacy. God forbid we learn how to write cursive again, Speaker. These are the common-sense changes that we’re bring back into the classroom to empower a next generation to be more self-sufficient. I will take you back to St. Mary’s in Cobourg and those young students I saw on a lift, learning how to use their hands. This is a generation that will be self-sufficient.", "My wife constantly reminds me that when we have issues around the house, I’m useless. I’m going into training centres as Minister of Labour and I’m learning a thing or two. I think we can all acknowledge that teaching our next generation to be a little more self-sufficient is a good thing.", "I want to just close on the work being done to support women at work, to build what we want to build. It’s an all-hands-on-deck approach. We know that an economy that doesn’t work for women does not work at all. For the first time in Canada—in Canada—we are making changes to the Occupational Health and Safety Act to require that we have a number of things, like proper sanitary schedules in washrooms. We are mandating menstrual products to be provided on larger construction sites, properly fitting PPE, safety equipment, for women on the job site.", "I was recently at a meeting of Ministers of Labour, and we heard from a power worker, a technician, an electrical worker, a woman who was wearing coveralls that were down to her knees, working twice as hard just to keep up to her male counterparts, because she is wearing PPE, personal protective equipment, that doesn’t fit. Surely, we can do better. We can have properly fitting protective equipment for all body types and sizes. That is why we are proposing these regulatory and legislative changes to require constructors and construction sites to ensure that the washrooms they provide are kept clean, bringing the same expectations on Bay Street to main street, ensuring that women are protected on the job site.", "This is a direct response to advocacy from tradeswomen and other sector stakeholders, and it has been welcomed by leading employers like EllisDon, just to name one—a big shout-out to our Prevention Council and to the work that Steve Chaplin from EllisDon is doing. He has introduced now a number of women on job sites who have been such remarkable advocates. I think to Lindsey, a young woman I met at Local 27 in Toronto. I think to Local 183 and some of the young women I have met there who are taking that next step, becoming self-sufficient.", "I think to Oaks Revitalization, partners we are partnering with, giving people a second chance, people who have been in a revolving door of justice. Some measure success of those individuals by how much more we can spend as a government on either Ontario Works or on various programming and services; we measure success by helping those people, giving them a second chance and teaching them to be self-sufficient.", "0930", "It’s been a remarkable opportunity meeting some of the women, like Lindsey, who came up to me—Lindsey is with Local 183—at Mattamy Homes, on health and safety day. She has been a justice-involved individual and now stands as one of their health and safety ambassadors. I met her in Oakville at a project—real story—through Oaks Revitalization. I want to thank her for her advocacy for so many women in the trades.", "We are doing so much more in this bill, removing barriers to employment and ensuring that those who have come to this country are able to practise. The old adage, “My cabbie or Uber driver is a doctor”—we’re working with the Fairness Commissioner to ensure pathways to working, and that healthy tension with regulatory bodies to make sure they have a plan and a pathway to credential. We’re making sure that it’s time governed from six months—we’ll be making changes soon to lower that to three—and working to ensure those regulatory bodies have a plan.", "Behind all of these changes are people, again. I want to especially thank all of those who’ve opened their doors to me, whether it’s the settlement agencies, like the newcomer centre in downtown Toronto, Sara Asalya and her team; whether it’s the OCASI team where I just spoke; whether it’s our union training partners all over this great province; mining companies in the north; Indigenous communities that I’ve been invited into to hear about challenges and pathways; the new mobile training that we are bringing into communities to help people get better training, better jobs with bigger paycheques. That is at the heart of this bill, to empower workers in the province of Ontario, because as this province changes, we need to ensure that we have a workforce with the skill sets and the mobile and nimble training to support them to build a better province that we call home, Ontario.", "There is so much more in this bill, Speaker. I’ve riffed a bit off into stories from my own riding that really are a driver—and I know the driver of everybody in this place: the people we serve. It has been an absolute honour to work with all of them on this Working for Workers bill. Again, like Harry Potter, like the trilogy, it keeps getting better and I’m proud to turn my time over to the great member from Ajax.", "Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you to everyone in this House who has been a part of this bill." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Jennifer K. French)", "text": [ "As the minister is sharing his time, I recognize the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Labour, Immigration, Training and Skills Development." ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Patrice Barnes", "text": [ "Thank you to the minister for the lead-off on this. I am pleased to rise for third reading of Bill 190, Working for Workers Five Act, 2024, alongside the Minister of Labour, Immigration, Training and Skills Development.", "I want to once again acknowledge the leadership of the minister and the work of the entire team at the ministry to support workers across our province. Every day, I witness their dedication and the devotion of the minister to getting things right for workers across this province.", "I want to take a minute to do a shout-out to all the different organizations, unions and associations that we consulted with. I just want to give a shout-out to the police association; the Ontario firefighters’ association; the Ontario Chamber of Commerce; the various unions, such as LIUNA, Unite Here, OPCMIA, sheet metal workers, IUPAT, UA, heat and frost insulators; and the medical association. Of course, this bill was also posted publicly on the public registry for input, which was amazing, to get some of the feedback on that. We’ve also reached out, when we were consulting about the health piece on critical illness, to the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, as well as the OFL. I’m so glad that we have had the opportunity to speak to these organizations, unions and associations to get feedback to put into this bill.", "I’d also like to, once again, thank Premier Ford for his leadership and support of our government’s action and trail-blazing legislation for Ontario workers. He truly leads by example, working for workers to make sure we help to make Ontario’s dream a reality for others.", "I’ve had the opportunity, in this portfolio, to meet some amazing women that are doing great things within the trades. I want to give a shout-out to Rok from the carpenters’ union who has moved up through the ranks, and now has spent a great amount of her time getting other women into trades and being a leader and really mentoring young women. I’ll also give a shout-out to Kristi Slade with IUPAT. She also started out as a union member and she is also now, as a representative in downtown, really inspiring and mentoring other women in trades.", "Our government’s fifth Working for Workers Act will support women in skilled trades, protect job seekers and improve access to skills development. As a woman and a working professional, I’m proud of the proposal we’ve introduced to further support the women of this province at work. Our government is committed to the growth and success of women in the workplace—and so are we. We’re prescribing regulatory requirements for menstrual products on certain job sites, expanding current requirements for clean and sanitary workplace washrooms to all places to which OHSA applies and proposing to expand what is considered workplace harassment in an effort to encourage more women to join the labour force.", "Canadian research, as recently as 2022, has clearly shown that women are more likely to be subjected to workplace harassment, including online harassment, than other workers. We know that people who face multiple and intersecting forms of discrimination—like gender, race or disability—are more likely to be harassed. This includes online harassment as workplaces change and more people work from home. Many workers now telecommute, they work from home, either all or part of the time or a lot simply take work with them to meet deadlines and get things done.", "Virtual workplace harassment is something we increasingly need to make sure we are protecting workers from. That is why, as part of this bill, we are proposing to modernize the Occupational Health and Safety Act to include virtual harassment. Our government’s proposed amendments would add virtual harassment to the definitions of workplace harassment and workplace sexual harassment in the act, ensuring that workplace policies to address harassment in the workplace also cover online harassment. We are acting to reflect the realities of the modern workplace in our legislation and to better protect workers no matter where they perform their jobs. Our planned consultations on more potential changes to prevent and address complaints and incidents of workplace harassment will help to ensure this protection remains current and effective. Harassment is unacceptable. Whether it’s online or face to face, our government’s message is simple—we need to stop it, and we are working to ensure just that. Addressing virtual harassment is a timely and important change for all workers, especially women.", "I would like to talk a little bit more about other important changes our ministry is proposing to specifically support women in the trades, particularly in the construction industry. We have seen an increase of women working on construction projects and we have heard their requests to make their workplaces more inclusive. In fact, in 2022, a survey of Ontario tradeswomen in construction cited better washroom facilities as one of the things needed to make this type of work more appealing and welcoming to women. To help ensure this, we amended the construction projects regulations to require that, as of January 1, 2025, menstrual products must be provided on large construction sites. The construction projects affected would be those with 20 or more regularly employed workers and that are expected to last three months or longer.", "While only about 13% of workers in Ontario’s construction industry are women—and only 4% of skilled trades-related workers in construction are women—we want to increase this number. When women only represent one tenth of our construction industry, we are tying our hands behind our back at a time when we need all hands on deck. We are working to support women and promote their role in the skilled trades and to ensure they know that they also belong.", "To bring better, cleaner, washrooms to all workers as part of our latest Working for Workers package, we’re proposing a new requirement under the Occupational Health and Safety Act for washrooms provided to workers. While in construction it’s already a requirement for washrooms to be kept in a clean and sanitary condition, we are now proposing rolling out a similar requirement across all types of workplaces across the province.", "0940", "To ensure that this is a regular practice, constructors and employers will be required to maintain records of cleaning for each washroom based on requirements to be prescribed by regulation in the future. This requirement would allow workers to check when washrooms were last cleaned and help to keep the people in charge accountable. Washrooms in the workplace or job site need to be kept in a clean and sanitary condition, not just for workers’ health, but also for their dignity. No worker should be confronted with or have to endure a filthy, unsanitary room while they work. This is especially important for women; we’ve heard about women having to leave the job site to access a washroom, or, unexpectedly, something happens where their flow is early and they are stuck on a job site without proper menstrual products. It is something most of us take for granted, but it should not be that way, and every Ontarian deserves a clean workplace.", "The hard-working people of the province who show up day in and day out to do their jobs need and deserve for all constructors and employers to do their part. To further protect workers, we will as well consult and expand the types of equipment that are to be provided on construction sites. Equipment such as defibrillators is something that can make the difference between life and death in the event of a sudden cardiac arrest. This is in addition to steps such as a comprehensive ministry review of traumatic fatalities in the construction sector, led by Ontario’s Chief Prevention Officer, Dr. Joel Moody, as well as incorporating asbestos-related data in the ministry’s forthcoming occupational exposure registry to improve our efforts to prevent future asbestos-related illnesses.", "We have moved on to another piece, as well, around sick notes. To better protect employees, increase fairness and, importantly, reduce unnecessary burden on health care providers, we are proposing a change to the Employment Standards Act to prohibit employers from requiring sick notes for the three unpaid sick days employees are entitled to under the act. We want to put patients before paperwork, while at the same time reducing the paperwork burden for health care professionals. We propose to do this by prohibiting employers from requiring a sick note from a medical professional for an employee’s job-protected sick leave under the employment act. To maintain accountability in the office without creating unnecessary paperwork for health care providers, employers can still request another form of evidence that is reasonable in circumstance, such as an attestation. Future ministry guidance would be developed to inform on this.", "We would also like to help people avoid unnecessary trips to the doctor’s office when they are sick. This means fairness for employees who can better recuperate at home. It also means better safety for health care workers and the public, who would see less exposure to people with communicable diseases looking to complete paperwork, and more protection for patients in waiting rooms. It would mean many hours saved for primary care providers, and really align with our goal to reduce the burden on health care. According to the Ontario Medical Association, family doctors spend 19 hours per week on administrative tasks, including four hours writing notes or completing forms for patients. Let’s get those paperwork hours back for them to spend caring for patients rather than performing administrative tasks.", "I want to emphasize that employers would still have tools available to maintain staff accountability, such as requiring an attestation or asking for a pharmacy receipt, depending on the circumstances. This is all about reducing unnecessary burden on our health care system by giving employees the opportunity to recoup at home. This complements the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board’s effort to collaborate with health care sector organizations as they explore additional measures to reduce administrative burden for sick and injured workers and health care professionals. We are prioritizing patients over paperwork, ensuring our workers have the support they really need.", "I would also like to talk about workplace fairness. We want to send a message that employers who break the rules and exploit or endanger workers will face consequences. That is why we’re proposing changes to the Employment Standards Act that would, if passed, double the maximum fine for individuals convicted of violating the act, from $50,000 to $100,000. This would make Ontario’s maximum fine for individuals the highest in the country and send a message to unscrupulous employers.", "We have also increased the penalty that an employment standards officer can issue for certain repeat offenders by five times. It is a change from $1,000 to $5,000. And it would be available for officers to issue on third or subsequent contraventions of the same provision.", "We are making it clear to bad actors and repeat offenders that their actions are unacceptable. From less than the cost of some cellphones to a much more significant penalty, especially when it is multiplied by each employee affected, these changes are designed to make bad actors think twice before they violate the act and to give the courts and our officers more leverage to appropriately penalize those who do, levelling the playing field for Ontario’s majority of responsible employers.", "Speaker, I’d like to also echo an important proposal within Working for Workers 5 that Minister Piccini spoke to, and that is requiring employers to disclose in publicly advertised job postings whether a position is vacant and to respond to applicants they have interviewed for those jobs with specified information within a specified period of time. It is not fair, after all the work, preparation and stress a job interview entails, to have applicants kept in the dark and waiting, many times with no reply, after they have been interviewed for a position, especially in cases where some employers do not have a currently available position but are simply building a pool of potential applicants for the future. Our proposed changes would help end that practice and bring fairness and dignity to job applicants.", "I would also like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that effective October 1, 2024, Ontario has increased the minimum wage from $16.55 to $17.20 per hour. This 3.9% annualized wage increase is based on the Ontario consumer price index and brings Ontario’s minimum wage to the second highest of the provinces of Canada.", "We have also talked a lot about the increase of penalties. Our government and our ministry will continue to work with municipalities and courts to make sure that these bad actors are penalized, fees are recovered and employees are looked after.", "All of these changes have one goal in mind: putting workers first. An economy that isn’t for workers doesn’t work at all, so, through our Working for Workers packages, we have been making and plan to continue making common-sense changes that put Ontario’s workers in the driver’s seat.", "The themes the minister and I have been speaking about today are not new. In fact, this government has been supporting heroes and workers in all of its Working for Workers legislative packages.", "In 2022, we stood up for members of the Canadian Armed Forces. We expanded military reservist leave to cover time spent in Canadian Forces military skills training and reduce the amount of time military personnel need to hold a job before they can take the leave, with their jobs protected, from six to three months. In 2023, we improved military reservist leave once more, expanding the reasons for the leave and further reducing the time reservists need to be employed before taking such leaves.", "We have worked closely with our firefighters. The firefighter presumptive coverage improvements outlined today also build on improvements in 2023, when we expanded presumptive occupational cancer coverage for firefighters and fire investigators to include primary-site thyroid and pancreatic cancers, as well as further improvements this year, when the act was amended to reduce the time firefighters and fire investigators need to have been employed prior to diagnosis to receive presumptive coverage for primary-site esophageal cancer, from 25 years to 15 years.", "We have been protecting the safety and dignity of workers from the beginning of the Working for Workers series.", "We remember that legislation passed by this House in 2021 gave delivery workers the basic human dignity of access to a restroom at businesses they are serving. In 2023, we improved washrooms for construction workers by updating requirements for clean, well-lit and properly enclosed washrooms on all construction sites. And we improved job sites for women by requiring women-specific washrooms on larger sites, as well as requiring that properly fitting personal protective equipment and clothing be available for workers of all body types, making construction work safer, dignified and more inclusive.", "0950", "To demonstrate our seriousness and commitment on workplace safety to bad actors, in 2022, we increased the maximum fine for corporations convicted of Occupational Health and Safety Act violations to $2 million, emphasizing our goal of putting worker safety above all else.", "We have also been proactive around the opioid epidemic’s effect on workplace safety, enacting legislation in 2022 that certain workplaces have life-saving naloxone kits on-site and workers trained on how to use them. Ontario’s workplace naloxone program was the first of its kind in North America. Everyone’s life has meaning, and naloxone gives people the second chance they deserve. This initiative has saved lives and makes Ontario a safer place to work.", "Fairness for employees and job seekers has been an ongoing theme of this government’s improvements since 2021. To protect vulnerable workers, we first introduced mandatory licensing of recruiters and temp agencies.", "And we followed up last year with changes that, once proclaimed, will require employers to disclose the expected compensation, or range of compensation, in publicly advertised job postings, to ensure job seekers have clear information about the pay they can expect before they decide to apply. We have heard the stories, and we might even have experienced it ourselves—where you have applied for a job, you have jumped through all the hoops, you have interviewed, you’ve prepped yourself, you’ve got in and you found out that the pay was less than attractive. I’m sure quite a few of us have had that experience. So being able to see that posted, we can be like, “Is it worth my time? Should I even try?” So I’m so thrilled about the fact that we have this. We want to ensure job seekers have clear information about the pay they can expect before they decide to apply.", "We also ensured fairness for hospitality and service sector staff by clarifying and introducing some important employment standards—clarifying that employers cannot deduct wages when customers dine and dash, gas and dash, or otherwise leave without paying. It is so unfair for people who are working in these jobs to be responsible for people’s unethical behaviour.", "Clarifying that employees must be paid for trial shifts—and requiring employers to disclose if they have a policy of sharing in employee tips and post it in the workplace. We have heard so many times—and oftentimes new immigrants, who are invited to come and work and try out the job, and they’re there for a couple of days or sometimes even longer doing these jobs that, at the end of it, they don’t get paid for because it was a trial shift. We want to stop that practice of taking advantage of others.", "We are also requiring employers who pay tips using direct deposit to allow their employees to select which account they want them to be deposited into.", "Speaker, we are moving on to other parts of employment as well.", "In order to ensure fairness for Ontario workers, it’s important to keep our laws current with regard to new technology and applicable to real life. And that is another thing we have accomplished through the Working for Workers series. Technology in the workplace has transformed how we operate, communicate and innovate.", "In 2021, we addressed this by introducing a requirement for larger employers to have a written policy on disconnecting from work—that doesn’t work for us, but it’s good that we are putting it in for others—to help safeguard people’s personal and family time in an era when work can easily follow you home. In 2022, we followed up to help protect employees, with a requirement for large employers to disclose how they are monitoring their employees electronically.", "We have also made changes to the Employment Standards Act to ensure that employees who work solely on a remote basis are counted for mass termination provisions and can receive the same protections as their in-office counterparts.", "Speaker, our government has, as well, been working to get people into jobs through the Working for Workers packages. We have been ensuring that red tape and unfair practices don’t stand in the way of newcomers, who aspire to contribute to our communities. In our last package, we made changes that, once proclaimed, will prohibit all provincially regulated employers from including a requirement for Canadian experience in a publicly advertised job posting or on application forms. This was a natural follow-up to our 2021 prohibition on Canadian experience as a requirement for registration in more than 30 regulated professions and compulsory trades.", "This is such a big game-changer for newcomers. A lot of newcomers were caught in the cycle of: “We can’t hire you because you need to have Canadian job experience,” but nobody wants to hire you to give you the experience. But the minute that one employer took a chance on you, then you became attractive to so many others. We want to make sure that we are levelling the playing field for our newcomers.", "We are working to help put newcomers on a path to success by enabling them to resume their careers in Ontario jobs that match their skills, including skills that we need and where job vacancies exist in sectors like health care and the skilled trades. This is why we’ve also been addressing the barriers internationally trained individuals can face when having their qualifications assessed. We have made changes that, once proclaimed and implemented, will improve transparency and accountability for the assessment of qualifications by regulated professions and third parties.", "Speaker, as we have heard, this new Working for Workers legislation package extends the groundbreaking supports and improvements already helping millions of workers across the province, by protecting the health and dignity of workers and front-line heroes, ensuring fairness for employees and job seekers, supporting women at work, removing barriers for employment and making it easier for more Ontarians to start a career in the trades.", "We have also worked so very hard with our school boards and with different organizations to help change the stigma around trades. It used to be if you weren’t considered academically smart, then the trades were for you, with a nudge, nudge, wink, wink. But now we want to really change that stigma. We wanted to see that our young people recognized that a job in the trades is a career for life. You have a skill that you can take with you wherever you go, and it is a very good and high-paying job.", "We’ve also had the opportunity with our Level Up! career fairs to really talk to parents, because as new immigrants, a lot of parents will be like, “I didn’t come here for you to be a plumber. I didn’t sacrifice and pull up my life and move to a different country for you to be a carpenter.” They want a doctor; they want an engineer. And so having these discussions with parents around the ability of somebody, for their child, to be a tradesperson that gives them a very well-paying job, that they’ll probably get into the minister’s six figures without even having a loan to have to pay off at some time. You’re owning a house faster; you’re owning a vehicle faster. I remember speaking to a young lady that had gone on to be an electrician and her mom was not very thrilled that she was doing that. She started changing her mind when she bought a car, and then she bought her mom a car—so, you know, her mom started changing her thoughts about the value of her being in a trade.", "So we’re working very hard with our school boards and with different organizations to be able to get youth to really look at a job in the trades. I know I spoke to one school board that had 800 students that were actually interested in getting into a trade, and that is an amazing change to what we are doing.", "With our ministry, now we’re really focusing on speaking to those employers about welcoming these new young ones into the trades and into the workplace. I don’t want to work with my 16-year-old, and so some of these companies don’t necessarily want to work with 16-year-olds in the workplace as well. But having those conversations about changing what the workplace looks like, changing what mentorship looks like, changing what opportunities are available for young people—because, as we’ve talked about, we know there’s a silver tsunami, and we need to actually start building a succession plan. Somebody said to me what I thought was really good—I actually can’t remember where I heard it, but in talking about the trades, they said, “The lawyers work in the buildings that you build; the doctors work in the buildings that you build.” Everything happens based on the trades and construction industry, so we want to get our young people to really think about fast-tracking into the trades and being able to have potential careers for life.", "1000", "We’re accessing every tool in our tool box to work harder for workers each and every year, and to not only protect workers but to also keep and attract more workers to our province in order to ensure that Ontario’s economy remains strong. As I’ve said, the themes aren’t new. We’re building upon the past bills we have introduced under the leadership of Premier Ford, and we will always remain committed and keep working to protect and support this province’s working people.", "I call on all members of this House to join me in supporting Bill 190, Working for Workers Five Act, 2024." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Jennifer K. French)", "text": [ "Questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "Thank you to my colleagues for their debate.", "One of the things I learned working in health and safety is that sometimes you can make bad decisions with good intent. I’m afraid, in this bill, we may have done this. I think there was good intent on this.", "The previous Working for Workers bill allowed regular firefighters access to WSIB presumptive coverage, and we’ve transferred this now to wildland firefighters. We heard from Noah Freedman during deputations that we’re missing the point on this. The reality is that these wildland firefighters, that yearly rate—they won’t hit the threshold. They’ll have to actually work twice as many years because their seasons are half-years, because things don’t catch on fire in the snow.", "Not only that, but there’s actually more risk of carcinogenic effect to them. There isn’t a path to fresh air. They regularly touch soot with their bare hands. They don’t have access to showers and the ability to change their PPE.", "I put forward two amendments to address this. They were both voted down at committee. I’m asking: Would the Ministry of Labour please make the changes that are needed so we can help out these heroes who protect our forests?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. David Piccini", "text": [ "As we’ve always done with this bill and others, we’re always open to constructive recommendations. I know MNRF employees, their seasons do count as a year, so are scoped in. Anyone outside of that that may feel they’re missing in this, we’re absolutely happy to look and address that, as we’ll continue to do, working with firefighters. I just got off the phone last night with Greg Horton, head of OPFFA. We have a great relationship—constantly working to ensure that we’re responsive to their needs and look forward to continuing to do that." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Jennifer K. French)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Mr. Deepak Anand", "text": [ "I want to acknowledge and thank the minister and the PA for an incredible job. As you know, I have worked on Working for Workers 1 to 3. We always talk about these bills as common-sense bills. The people of Ontario, when they suggested something to do, we listened to them, and we acted on it.", "Minister, something which we’re all concerned about is the grey tsunami that’s hitting the skilled trades. There is a generation of workers in construction that are on the verge of retiring, but we don’t have the workers to replace them. This could have really negative impacts on ensuring that we have the workers to build the roads, highways, hospitals, infrastructure that we need. To you, what are we doing through this bill and how are we supporting Ontario?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. David Piccini", "text": [ "Thank you very much for that question. I think it is important and very relevant that we tackle those incredible men and women and the silver tsunami he referenced, that generation that’s retiring—that we increase pathways. So whether it’s FAST, the focused apprenticeship, getting those hours in grade 11 and 12 towards your level 1 and, ultimately, your certificate of qualification; whether it’s mandating a tech class, bringing back common-sense changes to our schools, ensuring tech classes, bringing back shop class; removing barriers for internationally trained men and women in the skilled trades; expanding funding through the Skills Development Fund for pre-apprenticeship programming to help people try a trade—I think to our Try a Trade program in my own community. These are all part of a holistic effort to expand access into the trades so that we get more young men and women into this career." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Jennifer K. French)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "My question is for the Minister of Labour. There are 11 items in this bill related to washrooms. Basically, you have to have washrooms, you have to keep them clean and you have to keep records that they were cleaned, as well. But all of this legislation actually existed at least as far back as 1990, this re-tabling of existing legislation. As well, it basically says you need porta-potties.", "We’ve all talked about the silver tsunami, the need for more and more tradespeople. I am curious: When I hear the Minister of Labour talk about bringing Bay Street to main street—on Bay Street, I don’t see very many porta-potties. We’re basically telling people that we’re going to attract people to this field; we need tradespeople. We’re telling them we’re going to attract women and people of colour and men and young children, teens to this career because we’re offering them porta-potties that will be clean and that will be reported of cleaning.", "My question, Speaker, to the minister is, are we really going to attract people by advertising porta-potties? And has he ever offered a job saying, “Come and apply at the Ministry of Labour; we’ve got porta-potties”?" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. David Piccini", "text": [ "That’s an unfortunate characterization. What we’re going to do to attract young men and women into the trades is bring back tech class, something this Premier is doing; bringing back hours in grade 11 and 12 to get into a trade, something this Premier is doing.", "What we’re going to do is we’re going to break down barriers for women with properly fitting PPE, ensure proper cleaning schedules for bathrooms, work with the sector to bring in the trailers. I would encourage him to leave this place and come with me down to the 183 high-rise I was on, on day one on this job. All of them are leaving that party in droves to endorse this Premier because he’s getting more young men and women into the trades and because he’s laser-focused on removing the barriers." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Jennifer K. French)", "text": [ "Further questions?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Natalie Pierre", "text": [ "Thank you, Minister, for your remarks and for the work that you continue to do in your ministry for the workers in the province of Ontario.", "My question is actually for the member from Ajax, and I wanted to ask you specifically about issues that women face in the workplace. Given the challenges that women face, such as barriers to entry in certain industries, under-representation in leadership roles and harassment in the workplace, can you explain what specific actions your ministry has taken in Working for Workers 5 to promote gender equality in the workplace?" ] }, { "speaker": "Ms. Patrice Barnes", "text": [ "Thank you for that question. We’ve had so much amazing conversation with women in trades. I’ve had Rok, especially, a beautiful Black woman—she is a carpenter. She so loves her job in the trade that she’s done for many years, but we’ve had really good conversations about that.", "Some of the things that are sort of snuffed at, such as the washrooms, about the menstrual products, about the opportunity to really highlight women in trade, the specific investments through SDF that are encouraging organizations that are mentoring young women into the trades, the make-a-dream organization that is fully focused on getting women and young ladies really thinking about the trades—they had an event where they had 2,000 young women that came to be on site, that were learning around trades, were doing interactive things, that were really taking away the stigma around trades and being able to do those hands-on things.", "So our government has been very specific in talking about that in schools and really focused on the things that we can do to get women to recognize that they can achieve anything that they want to achieve." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Jennifer K. French)", "text": [ "Next question?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "This bill has the removal-ish of sick notes, and I say “removal-ish” because you don’t have to provide sick notes, but your employer can ask you to provide proof. It also only applies to the three days of personal emergency leave.", "We used to have 10 days of personal emergency leave, but the Conservative government in their first, I guess, Working for Workers bill reduced it to three. Dr. Nowak, the president of the Ontario Medical Association, has told this committee, when we were reviewing this bill, that the Ontario Medical Association sees about 11 days, on average, of people being sick. I know the Conservative government is dramatically opposed to providing sick pay or providing any sort of pay to help workers get through sick days—especially low and precarious workers—but would the minister agree that we should be raising our personal emergency leave days back up to 10, considering the Ontario Medical Association says that 11 days on average is what they’re seeing?", "1010" ] }, { "speaker": "Hon. David Piccini", "text": [ "Look, I appreciate the question. I think what we recognize is that taking a common-sense approach to remove paperwork for doctors, so that they can spend more time caring for patients, is the right move—but also recognizing that you have to have integrity in the system and some checks and balances, so that employers have an ability to ensure that there is accountability in that system.", "I think being willing to have that discussion is a good thing, which we have and which our government has. Sitting down with doctors to tackle a barrier so that they can provide more direct care to patients is important. Removing barriers in credentialing pathways so that we can get more people in health care is important." ] }, { "speaker": "The Acting Speaker (Ms. Jennifer K. French)", "text": [ "The time for questions and responses is finished.", "Further debate?" ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "I’m looking at the time; we probably won’t get the whole hour in the next five minutes, but I will start off.", "Interjection." ] }, { "speaker": "MPP Jamie West", "text": [ "I can talk fast, but not that fast.", "This bill, Bill 190, is a compendium of six schedules. When we were doing second reading of the bill, I sort of went through every schedule, so for this one, I’m going to sort of hit the high notes on it.", "Just as a review for everybody: Schedule 1 basically talks about the high school apprenticeship program.", "Schedule 2: I kind of call it the headline portion. It’s going to disclose that the job posting is for an existing vacancy; it’s going to respond to everyone who applied for the job applications and retain copies for all three years. It’s not that these are bad things, necessarily, but I don’t know if they’re the first thing that workers would say they need in the times of unaffordability that we’re facing right now. They won’t hurt, obviously, but they’re not front and centre, I don’t think.", "Schedule 3 is about requirements for reasonable alternatives to documenting proof of qualifications. This, we heard at committee, was incredibly important. I think that we have to give credit where credit is due: It’s a good step forward. Nothing is spelled out in this, unfortunately, and I don’t know, really, if we could spell something out at this point, but I’m glad that the government is looking at this. I think we as New Democrats believe it’s important as well.", "We really heard from people talking about how difficult it was to come over here, to Canada, as newcomers. If you’re fleeing a war-torn country and the university you went to has been bombed and the records are destroyed, not only is it difficult to get the records; they may not even exist, especially if they’re paper records. That really is a hurdle, and so we do need to provide a way for people to get into their profession that they had in their home country here, for two reasons: (1) We need those people to work in those fields; and (2) it’s very demoralizing to pack up your family, to travel to a new country—maybe the language, the culture and the food are different—and become part of the fabric of the country that makes our country great, but then you are working in areas that are below your skill level.", "It becomes frustrating. I’m meeting people who are dentists, who are taking dental hygienist jobs in order to compensate. We’ve all heard about the people who are doctors, and holding doctorates, who are driving Ubers or taxis. It’s not good for them and it’s not good for us. I can only imagine the mental health effects that it’s having on workers in this position, who know that they can work at a higher capacity and aren’t able to find those jobs because of qualifications. I am glad that we’re looking to a way to have a reasonable alternative to proof of qualifications. There are great suggestions from the people who came to speak with us at committee about ways that we can do this. I’m looking forward to that, moving forward.", "Schedule 4 kind of has three random items on it. One of them is just updating the health and safety regulations, industrial regulations. I referred to an office, but not necessarily an office, located in a private residence. I think that provides clarity for workers that that’s happening. And number 2 is updating definitions of workplace harassment and workplace sexual harassment, including—" ] }, { "speaker": "The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott)", "text": [ "I apologize to the member for Sudbury for cutting him off, literally mid-sentence, but it is 10:15 and I am compelled to now ask for members’ statements.", "Third reading debate deemed adjourned." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Tyler Allsopp", "text": [ "I rise today to tell you about a graduation that occurred a little bit over a week ago in my home riding of Bay of Quinte from a great program called Elevate Plus. This program, funded through the Skills Development Fund and facilitated by Loyalist College and Quinte economic development, helps job seekers who have faced obstacles in their lives, whether it be mental illness, drug addiction or contact with the justice system, to build their skills, increase their confidence and prepare themselves for a career in our booming manufacturing sector. Over four weeks in class and four weeks on the job, these students develop into employees who are ready to work for any of our great manufacturers in the Bay of Quinte region.", "I will say it was incredibly moving to hear their stories about the changes that they’ve made in their lives and their desire and commitment to be better people, better family members and better members of our community.", "We are so thankful for this program, which graduated eight people in its 39th cohort to come through Elevate Plus. Over the years, that means hundreds of people have changed their lives, have gotten back to work and have made a difference across our community.", "Thank you to Elevate Plus, all of the teachers and staff who make it possible, Loyalist College and Quinte economic development, as well as the Skills Development Fund, for this great program." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Peggy Sattler", "text": [ "Today is Child Care Worker and Early Childhood Educator Appreciation Day, an annual opportunity to celebrate the commitment, skills and hard work of the people who care for Ontario’s kids.", "As the MPP for London West, I’m especially grateful to the dedicated, caring professionals who work in child care centres and licensed home child care across our city. Their commitment allows London parents to go to work, put food on the table and keep our economy going, knowing their children will be safe, nurtured and engaged.", "The theme for this year’s day is “Worth More!,” which highlights the urgency of ensuring child care workers and ECEs receive the respect and resources they deserve, so they can provide the care our children need and deliver the services that families rely on.", "Speaker, London West families have been struggling under this government with the rising cost of living, and the promise of $10-a-day child care provided a glimmer of hope. But the Conservatives’ failure to develop a workforce strategy to retain and recruit ECEs and child care workers means $10-a-day is not even close to a reality for the almost 5,000 kids waiting for a space in London.", "Will the Premier show his appreciation today for the child care workers and ECEs who fuel Ontario’s economy by giving them the decent work, good pay and fulfilling careers they deserve?" ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Dave Smith", "text": [ "This past Sunday, October 20, I was at a fundraising event at 100 Acre Brewing. There was a bandshell set up, and a number of local artists all joined together to raise money for one of our local charities. We had local artists Mike Kidd, Sarah Jayne Riley, Brad Renaud and Joslynn Burford there to entertain us and keep us engaged as we raised money for an organization called Right to Heal.", "Right to Heal delivers an Indigenous land-based cognitive behavioural therapy approach to addictions treatment. It’s all based around the research of Peggy Shaughnessy. Peggy is just completing her PhD in addictions research right now at Trent University, and the RedPath Program that she delivers through Right to Heal is making a difference in my community in the fight against the opioid crisis. The approach is a non-medical approach, where someone learns why they’re addicted so that they can get to the underlying issue, learn how they can take personal responsibility for their own well-being and find strategies that work for them to avoid the destructive behaviour that put them in the position they’re in. We’re seeing tremendous success with this program. With addictions, there is no silver bullet—not a single approach will work for everyone. But this approach is seeing tremendous results for many who have gone through her program. Peggy’s program has changed the trajectory of the lives of so many people in our community.", "Thank you, Peggy, for developing the program, thank you for introducing it to me and thank you for your patience as I work to find funding so that you can save the lives of so many people in our community." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Ms. Chandra Pasma", "text": [ "This summer, while the Premier was busy telling people struggling with homelessness to get off their posteriors and get a job, my constituents in Aspen Towers were desperately trying to hold onto their housing. Their brand new landlord has been trying to evict hundreds of tenants, issuing eviction notices just three days after he took ownership of the building, telling people they had only five days over a long weekend to make a decision.", "1020", "This government has abandoned my constituents and renters like them. They have refused to implement real rent control, which would take away the incentive from bad landlords to evict tenants just so they can jack up the rent. They have refused to levy stiffer penalties on landlords who ignore the rules, provide false information or unfairly evict tenants. They’ve refused to proactively enforce the rules, leaving it up to tenants to do it themselves, and then refused to fix the Landlord and Tenant Board so that these tenants can have swift justice.", "The Aspen Towers tenants in Ottawa West–Nepean include families with children, people working two jobs just to pay for rent and seniors who were finally able to retire after a lifetime of work. None of them will be able to afford rent if they are turfed onto the Ottawa housing market. They will have to work three jobs. They will have to go back to work in their seventies. Some of them are warning that they will have to live in their cars.", "Instead of blaming people who are struggling because of his government’s failures, the Premier should get off his posterior and make sure that everyone in this province can afford a place to call home." ] } ]

[ { "speaker": "Mr. Aris Babikian", "text": [ "The summer break was very productive. I managed to attend over 220 meetings, announcements, community events, new business openings in addition to attending standing committee meetings. It was informative to meet and listen to the daily challenges and concerns of Scarborough–Agincourt residents, businesses and organizations.", "I visited Sir Ernest MacMillan public school to distribute backpacks filled with school supplies to students in need. I made time to chat with the students and help them overcome some of the issues they face.", "I also had the privilege of meeting Dr. Norman Bethune CI’s BearBella all-girls robotics team to help with their fundraising as they prepare to represent Canada in the FIRST Global Challenge in Athens, Greece.", "Among the highlights of the summer recess were the Blackstone Foundation’s grand reopening of the Chester Le community library, which was established by a $199,700 grant from Ontario Trillium Foundation.", "I also managed to organize two barbeques for our residents.", "Another crucial event that I attended with the Minister of Health was the announcement of the allocation of $1,478,000 to the TAIBU Community Health Centre and $1,325,000 to Scarborough Centre for Healthy Communities to ensure our residents get access to primary care services.", "The grand opening of Scarborough Health Network’s mental health centre in Scarborough with Premier Ford and Minister Jones was a historic first.", "These are some of the events which kept me busy during our summer break." ] } ]