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Hello all, Daniel, 22M here. Have been reading up on stoicism for a few years now, but some times I am more stoic than others. Would appreciate any advice, stoic and non-stoic ( I have recieved great advice on this sub ). I feel like I fall in love, too easily, and as a result get heartbroken quite often too. Im average-decent looking I would say. Student-athlete with I would say good social skills. All it takes for me to fall in love with a girl is just a good first date and a kiss, and I feel like today, girls give those away like it's nothing, and im left quite upset as a result. I am no Don Juan, its true that I don't have a lot of options with women. I have had women who loved me, who I wasn't as attracted to - and vice versa. I hate being in love, I hate these ups and downs and how it makes me feel. I hate the uncertainty. Its unnatural. I don't like the game-aspect of it, the chasing and reeling. Why cant it be simpler, easier. We meet, the first date goes perfect, why the games now? Most of my success has been with older women, simply because they don't put up the same games, but I really want a younger girl my age. How would you look at it? What would you do? What am I doing wrong? Thank you, sincerely appreciate it P.S : Please no generic self improvement stuff, I work out extensively, am constantly learning, and I take care of my hygiene and style.

63 year old guy. Thinking back to when I was 22 I had the same problem. Honestly, it has a lot to do with biology and psychology in my opinion. I was a political theory major at 22, heard of the Stoic, never read them. I found later in life, they had great advice on the inevitable nature of being, the losses we will all experience, and our own mortality. At 22 you are lucky to have read these works. I was fairly popular guy at university, fell in love at least once a month, then grieved when things went south. I held on to the loss of one of the most beautiful girls I ever dated in my senior year, held on to the grief of loss for three and half decades. This sounds extreme, but it was very real and affected my life. I finally was able to deal with the situation and then right after I found Stoicism. Stoicism has made me smile and laugh when I think of how I felt less than a decade ago. Relationships have less control over me now, in fact at my age I don't really care about that part of life.

Advice on love and relationships?

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So a few weeks ago my ex girlfriend broke up with me out of the blue, totally took me by surprise and has left me in a situation that makes me feel sort of hopeless.....but I know I will come out of this,I have power over my mind and not outside events, I am Just looking for a bit more advice and some words of encouragement from my fellow stoics. So here we go... Me and my girlfriend had agreed that I would move into her house as I live 45-minute drive away from where she lives, we made a plan and i started to put the pieces into place to put the plan into action, over the part of 3 months I made my plan of action and started to think about the future of us together, like what type of job would I be looking out for, what kinda stuff will I cook her for dinner....just all that kind of stuff you think about when taking a relationship to the next level, it was my chance to look after her and make her feel totally looked after. I was so excited about everything, me leaving my job of 11 year's that I hated, me moving out of my hometown to be with the love of my life...or so I thought. Everything was perfect, there wasn't a ripple in the water to tell me that she was thinking about leaving me, like literally nothing, her communication didn't change, her response to text messages didn't change, it was perfect like it has been for the past 13 months. Usually us guys kind of get an inclination that's something is wrong, you know when you say " is everything ok ? You been really quiet the last few weeks and you don't seem yourself " that usually leads into the discussion on her end about the breakup but that never happened because she showed no signs of unhappiness or distress about being in a relationship with me..... literally nothing at all. We celebrated her 30th birthday together on a Saturday and we went to a karaoke bar with her friends and family again noting seemed out of question we had amazing time and had an amazing day the next day just kind of having a lazy day and talking about her birthday party, again everything was normal. 2 days later it's Monday and I handed in my 2 week notice of leave to my boss and told him I'm leaving to move out to my girlfriend, he was happy for me and wishes me the best of luck, I am now so fuckin happy that the end is in sight for this job and the next chapter of my life is about to start. The next day ( Tuesday ) is my own 30th birthday, we were supposed to do something on that coming weekend for my birthday because it fell on a Tuesday and the two of us were working, she called me that night for a birthday chat and said " we can do literally anything you want to do on the weekend for your birthday ".....again everything was completely normal and I was excited to celebrate my 30th birthday and me leaving my job with her on that Saturday coming. So, here we are, it's now Saturday morning, I arrive to her house, excited to go for dinner later for my birthday, I chat to her and her mom for a bit, she heads up to her room to get changed, after a while I head on up to her to see what she is at, I lay on the bed beside her and we chat for a few minutes.......... something feels off, I ask her " are you ok, is everything alright " She drops it on me that she doesn't think we are the right match for one another, I just sit there completely speechless.....not a word could I speak, I was in the same shock that I was in when my father passed away and I got that phone call to say " dad's gone man " I'm now about 4 weeks and a bit out of the break up, I have used my stoic teachings to realize that I do not own anybody and that any given time I have to give things back to the whole without question. That this is my faith, as painful as it is this is what my destiny is. But the thing is I am now jobless and broken hearted and I'm finding it very hard to focus, some days I focus on trying to find work and getting myself outside for a hike to clear my mind, and some other days I just can't get out of bed because I am dealing with the breakup side of this situation. it is like a double edge sword, one situation is just as hard as the order situation and trying to unpack it all is becoming a little bit hard. So I am asking my fellow stoics what would you recommend that I do in this situation and what insights can you give me that will help me along my path to recovery and to mending my broken heart. I'm dealing with two things, I'm dealing with being heartbroken and I'm dealing with low self-esteem about finding a job.....I'm really stressed about finding a job, I mean she could have ended things before I left my job ya know.....kinda a shit thing to do to someone. Any and all advice is welcome and I appreciate any help given. Thanks you

It sounds like your girlfriend had reservations about the relationship that she either didn't communicate or that you didn't hear. My guess is that the things she had committed to didn't become "real" to her until she was about to pull the trigger, and that is when she began to feel her doubts more acutely. Stoicism is all about reframing the events to your benefit. We cannot choose events, but we can choose how we think about them. The facts are that the relationship is over and you are without a job. Your imagined future is going to be different. That doesn't mean it will be bad - that depends on how you look at it. On the plus side, you didn't move in with the girlfriend, live together for a year or two, and *then* have her suddenly end the relationship, which may have been more painful. You are not committed to the new location now and are free to find a new, better job, perhaps in a new area that you never would have considered if you were in that relationship. In five years you may look back at this as the fork in the road that let you have new experiences that led you to the person you were to become.

Being Stoic during a break up

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Sometimes with my significant other, for whatever reason, maybe hyperactivity, high energy levels, I find I talk too much and jump from topics of conversation quickly and repetitively and speak about what I'm thinking of too much, no the point it actually can burn her out and annoy her (after a time, she isn't impatient whatsoever) and in afterthought I dislike this behaviour and dwell on how I wish I could keep my casual thoughts to myself without speaking them too much (I have no problem keeping deep thoughts or problems to myself luckily) Any stoic advice on this, does silence and relaxed behaviour come from inner peace or a well ordered mind ? Anyone else have this problem or dislike this about themselves ?

Maybe you can use this quote as a reminder: >"Nature has given man one tongue, but two ears, that we may hear twice as much as we speak." Epictetus, Fragments 6 Any other Stoic mantra would do the same. Just something you can recall before or while having a conversation that helps you to slow down. Besides that, you can try to change perspectives and think about how your behavior looks like for your conversation partner. Make it a routine so your insights can sink in deeply. You can also do a little role-play. Just change the seats and let the other person talk without taking a breath. This can help to make it more realistic. Hope that helps a little.

Any stoic quotes/advice on not talking too much

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Hi, I'm in a pretty rough breakup right now. We were together for about 7 years and I'm thinking about a lot of things, my mind can't seem to settle. I've noticed that I think a lot about drinking alcohol to relax my mind a bit. But that feels weak and not the stoic way. How would the stoic approach this? What would be their opinion?

The stoic approach would be more akin to analyzing (not moping over and agonizing about) the breakup, taking what you can learn from it, allowing the emotion to wash over and around you without drowning you, gathering strength and moving on. If you were to take drugs (and yes, alcohol is a drug) then you're entirely skipping over the process of learning from the breakup. Additionally, you're not fixing the emotional issue - you're worsening it, at high risk, and pushing it towards your future self. Try to be kind to the person you will be tomorrow. Disclaimer: I do not claim to have a perfect understanding of stoic ideals, this is my interpretation, or a "what I would strive to do".

Stoic advices / takes on drinking alcohol

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If this sounds like a stupid or antagonistic question, I encourage you not to brush it aside. I think it's actually one of the more challenging considerations when practicing Stoicism. I've been getting therapy ads showing weathered old men saying "don't show emotion," "keep it bottled up," "man up," etc. While I know that this isn't actual Stoicism, I do think the practice of Stoic virtues can be mistaken for this detached invulnerability. Not just from the outside but from within. For a healthy example of stoicism: a friend who is new to construction has an old supervisor who's been giving him a hard time. My advice would be to show no sign of grievance and not take it personally, to consider that this bitter dinosaur is that way because he's lived a shitty life and is projecting (and that the reward for not engaging is that you get to be the happy young man and he has to keep being the rusty old jerk). Or maybe I could frame it like "you can't control the old man's behavior, but you can still find value in the work that you are doing," or "you can line up another job so the boss's rants seem silly and pointless to you." My point is, I don't think it's hard to find a stoic rationale to resolve that kind of issue. But this can become your default reaction for dealing with everything, and at a certain point, how is that different from "don't show emotion," "hero it bottled up," "man up." I ask because in my life there have been times when I feel like the Stoic answer allowed me to shoulder more than I could bear, but then became it's own cop out when I should have been more vocal in seeking help, or allowed my emotions to guide more of my behaviors. That the cumulative effect of letting things roll off me was something similar to toxic masculinity, at least as it regards trying to be stronger instead of softer or more vulnerable or emotionally receptive. It can be exceedingly difficult to identify when is the time to share how you really feel, or let passion guide your actions. So how does a Stoic avoid the toxic trait of becoming an emotionally detached strong man type of guy?

That sort of "broicism" focuses on the *appearance* of being stoic rather than being Stoic. It's like a McDojo that has elaborate uniforms and does a lot of board-breaking, but completely neglects the fundamentals of the martial art they're imitating. The point of Stoicism isn't to deaden yourself to your emotions, but to better understand them. It's less "I'm going to ignore this person making me mad" and more "why does this person make me mad? why do they have this power over me?" The other issue is that a lot of people forget that the dichotomy of control is a *dichotomy.* There are things within our control, and oftentimes it is the virtuous option to take action and address them.

How do you reconcile Stoicism with toxic masculinity?

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I'm going to try my best to explain this and I'll probably leave out some important details but please let me know if there's somethings that's unclear. I may also be explain myself in a way that doesn't portray me as I have been acting only because I'm not sure not how to explain this at my best yet. Some of this will also suggest a need for therapy. I'm in therapy. This post is to see if anyone has stoic advice that can apply to this as I have a basic understanding of what stoicism is but of none of the teachings of stoicism The issue: I feel the need to impress people very badly. So much so to the point where I think I come off as a narcissist. I feel like I have this need because I want people to like me. A part of me believes I am not a narcissist but a part of me is starting to come to terms with the fact I may be. For me this is a devastating realization because I live in a family of narcissists and their disinterest in things I went through at very dark moments in my life has made me suicidal in the past. While I don't think I'm as bad as them and not an extreme narcissist, I think it had rubbed off on me a bit. There was a time in my life where I'd do anything for anyone that was my friend. But after traumatic things (eg seeing death, dealing with sexual and emotional abuse and more). I came to terms with the fact that the whole world hates me at times. I also lost interest in helping or caring about other people. I wanted to be special or unique and show people I'm special. I wanted to prove to them that I'm everything they could ever want. To a select people somewhere in the back of my head I think I even felt a need to become successful that they regret bullying me. But I sought this same pursuit while believing the world hates me and I hate it back. In essence this led to me talking solely about myself because in my head even though I never realized it in the moment, I couldn't care about other peoples things. Mainly because the things I've experienced have been so traumatic and so isolating that I just wanted to some to love me. I wanted relief through other people because in my head I love people because there's a certain time in my life I remembered me and people getting along. Those were the happiest times of my life but that was many years ago. I forgot about other people in the process. I've realized this because I've come to a point now where I have to remind myself to ask about other people and I only remind myself after I've realized I spent a whole hour talking about myself. And while me wanting to help people and be there for people is something I do want to do as I want to leave a good impact in the world. I do this while running the risk of trying to look like a saint; When I'm not. At least I don't know if I'm am a good person. If a friend of mine said hey I'm in trouble can you come help I would. But I have to get to the point where they say that first. Also when I first meet people and try to go through this impress people phase and it goes bad on me I get angry at them in my mind when I'm by myself without looking inwards. This is in part to 2 things 1) when I was abused among other things people would tell me I'm paranoid. Yeah maybe I would be worried about a friend of mine going back to a drug dealer who sexually assaulted me when I know this friend of mine had a coke habit and claimed to never want to see him for what he did to me. Maybe saying she's so addicted that she'd go back would be paranoid. But I was right so it wasn't paranoid. 2) my self hatred thoughts are so extreme that I don't want to allow myself to feel bad about myself even if a bad thought about myself is right. hypothetical example I call someone a mean name. I may acknowledge it was uncool but I'll never allow myself to feel bad about it because I'm more scared of going back to darker thoughts about myself i had many years ago when I was suicidal. I am not suicidal now nor have I been for many years because I still believe going from a high school reject to college graduate makes me worth something. But the trauma stays. In simple terms this makes me feel "I'm never wrong" Stoic questions now How do I allow myself to feel uncomfortable in these situations where I have these bad habits that in a sense come from a genuine place albeit genuineness turned toxic from trauma? How do I set aside these needs that anyone would have in sacrifice of making my life better Meanness is genuinely a rarity for me despite the example I used but talking about myself is not. (Think I'm so scared of myself I wouldn't want others to be scared of me but sometimes meanness comes out) So idk what is the most important place for me to start, but trying to not talk about myself even for a sentence or two is something I want to work towards most urgently. How do I stop talking about myself when it doesn't come from a place of over inflated ego, but a desperation for wanting to be loved? I want to catch myself in moments of talking to people and recognize others want to feel the same

It seems to me that your primary problem is that you don't have an accurate understanding of how the world works. This is a very common problem, so much so that an accurate understanding of reality is one of the main things Stoicism teaches us to develop. For instance, you have developed the belief that talking about yourself constantly, perhaps obsessively, will make people like you. You believe this so strongly that even in a post when you're asking how to stop the behaviour, you defend it as meeting a need. Of course, it doesn't meet the need. In fact it's counterproductive and drives people away from you. But you're so deeply attached to this behaviour that you ask us how to let go of the need, rather than how to find a rational way to connect to others. You have many other false beliefs too. Eg, that the whole world hates you. Holy self-absorption Batman! 99.9999% of the world's population has no idea you exist, and has no feelings about you whatsoever. So, what is real? Well, people are social animals and we do all seek connection. This is good, and can lead to opportunities to practice virtue (for a definition of Stoic virtue, see the sidebar). How do we connect to others? A generally successful way is by taking a genuine interest in others, in finding ways to help others, in being a reliable person that others can come to. If you struggle to find those opportunities in your usual life, get out and volunteer. For an extra challenge, tell no-one that you're doing it* In every conversation, listen to what the other person is saying. Really listen, don't just wait your turn to speak. Give yourself a challenge to offer nothing about yourself unless directly asked, and to make all your comments questions about the story the other person is telling. If this is difficult (it will be), put your hand on your mouth while listening. A physical barrier will remind you not to speak out of turn. I can't overstate this - the thing you need is to be sincerely interested in other people, in a boundaried and healthy way. All your own stuff is for your therapist, not for people you randomly meet. *In general I encourage people to talk about their volunteering because it tends to result in more volunteers, but this is a special case.

Forgive me if this is confusing but I'm trying to figure out something that is a complex issues that had given me trouble meeting people for years. I am figuring this out as I'm writing this

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I know you all hate posts that just ask for advice, but I'm genuinely trying to learn the stoic approach to real life scenarios. I tore my left ACL last year, and after a year of painstaking rehab I return to my sport. In the very first game back, I tear the other ACL. I'm in a state of shock and disbelief. Everything I worked so hard for was just taken from me again just like that. I'm going to lose yet another year of my already limited college sports career, and my schorship is now at risk, let alone having to get/ pay for surgery. My disappointment, stress, and misery is currently immeasurable. How does a practicing stoic remain calm in times of uncertainty and hardship?

I'm going to give you some advice and then the Enchiridion point upon which it's based - I would guess it won't be easy to hear. It is the nature of pursuing a career in sport that you are more likely than not to fail, and that there is a high chance that injury will prevent you from being competitive permanently. If your scholarship is tied to your playing sports, it also means your study is contingent upon the condition of your body. A person shouldn't enter into that field unless they're psychologically willing to accept those facts. Right now, you're not accepting that fact - you've suffered the type of injury that is inherent to playing sports, yet instead of saying "this is the reality of my choice" you say "everything was taken from me". Nothing was taken from you - your injuries and your at-risk scholarship are exactly what you signed up for. You have been *given* the thing you wanted, and if you are not content with it then the ultimate cause of your psychological instability is your choice to pursue a thing whose nature you don't find agreeable, and you won't feel better until you cease the pursuit or come to terms with the thing you wanted. The relevant piece of Stoic literature is the 29th point of the Enchiridion (which likely refers to a lost Discourse, sadly, but fortunately it's one of the larger summaries). I'm going to replicate it here in full - it's on the specific topic of "accepting a thing on the terms on which it is offered": >Reflect on what every project entails in both its initial and subsequent stages before taking it up. Otherwise you will likely tackle it enthusiastically at first, since you haven't given thought to what comes next; but when things get difficult you'll wind up quitting the project in disgrace. You want to win at the Olympics? So do I - who doesn't? It's a glorious achievement; but reflect on what's entailed both now and later on before committing to it. You have to submit to discipline, maintain a strict diet, abstain from rich foods, exercise under compulsion at set times in weather hot and cold, refrain from drinking water or wine whenever you want - in short, you have to hand yourself over to your trainer as if he were your doctor. And then there are digging contests to endure, and times when you will dislocate your wrist, turn your ankle, swallow quantities of sand, be whipped - and end up losing all the same. Consider all this, and if you still want to, then give athletics a go. If you don't pause to think, though, you'll end up doing what children do, playing at wrestler one minute, then gladiator, then actor, then musician. And you - you're an athlete now, next a gladiator, an orator, a philosopher - but nothing with all your heart. You're like a monkey who imitates whatever it happens to see, infatuated with one thing after another. You haven't approached anything attentively, or thought things through; your approach to projects is casual and capricious. Some people, likewise, see a philosopher or hear someone like Euphrates lecture (only, who can lecture like him?) and get it in their heads to become philosophers too. Listen, friend, research the role, then assess your capacity to fill it, just as you assess your arms, thighs and back if you hope to be a wrestler or pentathlete. We are not all cut out for the same thing. Do you think that as a philosopher you can eat and drink, or exercise desire and aversion, as you do at present? You have to stay up nights, put up with pain, leave your family, be looked down on by slaves, suffer ridicule from strangers, be outdone in status, in power, in legal matters - get the worst of it, in other words, down to the last little thing. Ponder whether you're prepared to pay this price for serenity, freedom and calm. If not, then don't go near it - don't, like children, be a philosopher now, a tax officer later, then an orator or politician. These roles don't mix; you have to be one person, good or bad. You have to care either for your mind or for material things; specialize in what is within you or without - which is to say, you have to stick to the role of philosopher or layman.

Remaining stoic in the middle of a storm

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I'm yet to reach my goals, The life I want, and Until I reach there why I do feel worthless? Also somewhere I know I'm good enough as I am. Even when I know that I still have to work my self-esteem, my boundaries etc., Makes me feel unless I do that property, first I'm not good enough.

Try celebrating yourself along the way and allow yourself to enjoy the process. Like the best at anything (Kobe, MJ, etc.), they fell in love with the process of getting to where they are at. You won't have fun if you suppress that dopamine release until you reach the ultimate goal. For example, if you want to drop 20 pounds then every time you go to the gym give yourself that positive talk. Even after every set, you can look at the mirror and allow yourself to be happy in that moment. Another example, you want to make $100k. Instead of not feeling any positive release until you reach $100k, break down your goal. Every $1000 I make, give yourself a shout out. You are smart, you continue to be consistent and have a higher power then you will have nothing to fear.

Seeking Stoic Advice: Yet to reach my goals, Personal and professional, so without that How can I feel enough as I am

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Hi - keen for some stoic perspective. I was due to do something fun with my family this afternoon. Kids were excited and frankly I was also really looking forward to this simple thing all week. We arrived at the store and turns out they'd written my phone number down incorrectly. They'd try to call me to confirm the booking and I because I (obviously) didn't respond they gave our booking to someone else. They said there's nothing they could do and didn't solve it for us, and we turned and left while the other families got to go and experience their fun. It felt really unfair. Now, this is clearly not a big deal in the scheme of things, but gee it made me annoyed, disappointed and put me in a bad mood. I've been able to deal with some pretty heavy stuff in the last few years so I'm surprised I have reacted so emotionally to this. Any advice on what is going on here?

Sometimes easier to accept things for ourselves, but this involved your loved ones as well I suppose you could have had a plan B just in case. And you could have modelled not letting it disturb your equanimity to them. Life constantly throws up challenges, someone moves the goal posts etc. Think of the Stoic archer.

Injustice/fairness when other people make mistakes

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hi everyone! i really want a stoic perspective on this. i have a boyfriend (18) and we've been together since 2021. i always had trust issues because of a bad past experience ( betrayal from my ex dear friends), but first i want to clarify that i'm not possessive because of them, they shouldn't influence negatively my relationship, ofc sometimes he helps me, but i know that i have to resolve them on my own. i'll give you an example, yesterday he went out with his friends, nothing to worry about, in fact i trust him, i know his friends and i trust some of them, i just don't trust other people's actions. i always get that pain in the chest (anxiety). so i'd love some stoic advice for this problem, how can i help myself in this situation. when i get that pain in the chest, i do some self-talk to calm me down, i try to see the bigger picture of the situation, but i don't think that's enough, i still get anxiety the next day. i already know that there are gonna be comments that will say that i have to let go the past experience that i had, and i agree, but i'd love some advices that can help me rn, in this moment. thank you so much in advance. sorry for my english, it's not my first language :)

>In fact i trust him, i know his friends and i trust some of them, i just don't trust other people's actions You don't comprehend what it means to trust a person, and so you're mistaken when you say you trust him. If you trust a person, it doesn't matter what actions other people take - trusting them means that you trust that no matter what actions other people take, then your partner won't respond inappropriately. If you believed your boyfriend would never cheat on you, then you wouldn't be worried about other women offering him sex *because you would trust him to say no*. You don't trust him in this way. There is no easy answer to this, but you can solve your immediate problem, which is denying you even lack that trust, and that will permit you to begin to help yourself. But for as long as you deny you have a problem, or you pretend your problem is merely a matter of needing some kind of breathing exercise, there can be no progress.

i have trust issues f(19)

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Hi all, I'm 19 and suffering from some mental health discorders such as autism, generalized anxiety discorder, social anxiety and ocd, also I have some kind of voice or speech discorder. I'm very interested in starting to be stoic I'll tell you more about me and would like you to give me stoic advice. All my life I've been bullied mentally I was called retarted I was mocked a lot because of my speech or voice discorder(I'm not diagnosed but there's something wrong with my voice and speech) I always was lonely and never socialized with my classmates. Even my family made some fun of me can you imagine lol they never understand me really blamed me for my difficulties that made me feel ashamed of having mental health discorders. My generalized anxiety discorder is now mild , but my social anxiety is still moderate. I never learned to socialize with anyone I only had 1-2 friends and they also made some fun of me this how I grew up. Because of my mental health discorders I can't have normal job that is very bad idea for me. When I was 17 I made some money online but I made some mistakes and failed I continued trying for half a year but didn't had success and eventually give up until January 2023 I had 5 months left to finish high school and was very worried as I can't work normal job because of my mental illnesses so I tried again I failed a lot but didn't give up and eventually had success and continue getting results in a few months I become the richest person in my family although I live in eastern Europe so it doesn't take much. Despite the bullying and people treating me like and calling me retarted I proved that I'm a capable person. My mindset is that I'm glad what's happened to me because it forced me to adapt my family are poor villagers and if I didn't had these difficulties I'd end up like them for sure. But because of the difficulties I was forced to learn and adapt in order to survive. I have genetic disadvantages for example not only the mental illnesses I'm also shorter and uglier than my father. I never had girlfriend or even talk to woman irl. Also I managed to overcome most of my anxiety without any therapy or medication my anxiety used to extremely severe, but it didn't break me. Most of the time I'm very positive and motivated I feel I can achieve almost anything I want despite the way I grew up I overcome most of the traumas, but Sometimes I feel inferior because I'm autistic and I'm getting sad. I closed in my house I don't have any friends I justt make money and workout that's my lifestyle I never went to parties or anything. I'd appreciate if you give me stoic advice thank you so much and sorry for had English I'd improve soon.

'Memento mori' (remember death). That is the thing which pushes me to accomplish things in life and get out of my comfort zone. Time is limited, you have to take action now. I understand, it's really difficult to meet people especially when one has social anxiety. The aim is to take small baby steps to get out of your comfort zone. Maybe first day, go for a walk. And slowly, as you start feeling comfortable challenge yourself to have a small talk or greet others. There are many classes and courses to which you can join.

I need some stoic advice

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It has been a month and a couple of days after me and my ex broke up. I have been reading Stoicism (meditations and Enchiridion of Epictetus) since and trying to study texts on my own. A lot of stoic ideas have been helping me move on and let go, but i am still finding it difficult to do so. There is no sadness from the break up because it was inevitable, no regrets, nothing, i forgive her for hurting me and everything. But I still miss her so much and she is on my mind all of the time. I want advice to let go from her and stop missing her, even stop loving her if possible because people in my place would hate her. I know she is with another guy and cant stop thinking about what they are doing and talking about, and thinking about how she perceive me because I feel like everything i did for her went unappreciated after the break up. Thanks.

Interesting, cause we probably went through similar cycles. It's been a year now since I've been introduced to the stoics. The Stoics would have you keep loving her, just understanding that the love you have for her is no greater than you'd have for another stranger, if you want to hate her, you'll have to find something else. If you want to learn to accept her choice as her doing what she at the time believed in best and coming to terms with the fact that you cannot be angry at her for that, then you have come to the right place. Let's tackle that last sentence "everything I did went unappreciated." Notice how with this sentence the entire value of all of your actions are instantly placed on how they are perceived or received. When we as people bestow a benefit, we must do so with the understanding that the act of doing good, be it virtuous or something else, is payment enough for the action. How that is perceived, handled, or ignored does not matter. You should judge yourself based on the motivations for your own actions. Did you do good to do good? Fantastic, then you have acted in accordance to your morals, pat yourself on the back and move on. Did you do something for the recognition? Then you simply don't deserve to feel good about it regardless of why you did it, take solace in virtue and acts of good intention. Take solace in knowing that you did the absolute best you could at the time. Finally a bit of two cents. You are taking yourself on a journey of growth and understanding. You are reading the books that changed the way I perceived my world. My ex cheated on me and not even a full year later, married the man she did with. I'm not perfect so I still make snide remarks.(working on it) but I do 100p believe her doing what she did was the best thing that ever happened to me. I changed my life, overcame so much, and proved to myself I can handle heartbreak. She repeated her same pattern. What to you may see as dark, like you are "losing," as a bad thing, understand that you are not god, that you are limited from an imperfect perception of the world. That this pain may be the key to unlock something greater. Good luck friend:)

Month After Break up

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I need stoics perspective on the fact that as far as I can remember ( im 30 yo) my brain always goes into this internal dialogue where I debate people or I make up some fucked up situation where I get pissed off at some make believe scenario my brain thought of and i leaves me in this stressed state of fight or flight. I mean I literally have this angry look on my face sometimes from what my brain is creating. Any advice or helpful criticism would be appreciated!

for me, read " The power of now" and it helps on your stoic journey

Fight or Flight

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Hey fellow Stoics, I wanted to share a recent experience and seek some advice on handling the anxiety it's causing me. Without disclosing names, here's what happened: Several months ago, I (M, 25) started providing math and statistics lessons to someone who initially appeared to be a kind and motivated learner (F, 40). Over time, this person became increasingly intrusive, seeking a more personal connection beyond the professional tutoring relationship we had established. Despite my attempts to maintain boundaries, the situation escalated. In July, the person confronted me aggressively, making baseless claims about my intentions and insulting me. This encounter left me deeply anxious and disturbed. I decided to terminate the lessons and cease communication. Despite these efforts, this person persisted in seeking contact, even making threats. She brought a letter to my house, in which she wrote she will not give up until I tell her I do not care. The problem is, I have already blocked everywhere two months ago, so I could not have been clearer than that. I decided to contact a lawyer and I had her send a cease-and-desist letter. As a Stoic, I'm trying to apply our principles to cope with the anxiety and discomfort stemming from this situation. In particular, I feel anxious because of how she might decide to respond: coming to my house again, making scenes, sending me other letters, forcing me to spend other time in court. I would appreciate any insights, advice, or Stoic perspectives you might have on dealing with unwanted attention and managing the anxiety it brings. How can I stay true to Stoic ideals in the face of such challenges? Thank you for your wisdom and support.

The idea that Stoics shun all negative emotions and see no role for it is incorrect - this is as unreasonable as saying that they shun all positive emotions. Stoics simply recognize that emotions are how our judgments manifest, and our judgments either do or do not represent the truth. In the case of a negative emotion like "fear of a stalker", the *negative* emotion represents the truth: that *really* is a dangerous situation and you *really* should feel negative emotions compelling you to leave it. Those negative emotions are what compelled you to contact a lawyer, and they are what compel you now to pay attention to the issue and not simply assume that the cease-and-desist letter will be sufficient. In short, you *should* feel negative emotions in this situation. If you are still feeling compelled to act, it may also be time to contact the police: my guess is that your assessment that you have not yet been vigilant enough may represent your assessment that a lawyer is more "legal" than "physical" protection. I suspect that knowing the police have visited this woman and warned her may make you feel better. Knowing the police are aware of the situation, and that subsequent impositions on your life will go into an ongoing case file of evidence against her will likely assuade you. Now I am not denying that it's possible for your beliefs about the negative emotions you're experiencing to become irrational, but right now I see no evidence of this - indeed, were you to try to repress these feelings your "vigilance" would morph into "terror", the *irrational* form of that negative feeling (this would be a "passion" in the Stoic sense).

How to handle the anxiety caused by being stalked

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I am not sure if this is the right place to post this and if it isn't, I apologise and request that you direct me to the appropriate place to post it. I have had some amount of interest in stoicism and stoic philosophy for the past few months now but I know very little about it and I also haven't really tried to actively apply it in my life either. However, in a few days, I will go through what I know will be an extremely challenging and difficult part of my life for around four months or so as I am going to be enrolled into a private school's hostel for the sake of my education. Unfortunately, this is completely out of my control and I can't back out of it now, even though it was never my choice in the first place. I know that this will be a hellish experience as I have already experienced it for a few days but I recently came back out due to an eye infection and I will be returning soon. The schedule is extremely harsh with only an hour of two where we aren't in school or studying a day, eating really unpleasant food for every meal, being able to bathe only twice a week, having no contact with my family other than a five minute phone call a week, extremely cramped and frankly unhygenic dorms and bathrooms etc. However, as bad as all these things are, I know that there are hundreds of former students and even my friends who have gone through this and came out the other side. If they are able to do it, I know that I can too. However, I am not in the best mental state and I am afraid I won't come out of the otherside completely unscathed so I am requesting advice on how to best apply the principles of stoicism in my situation so that I can adapt and come out a better person instead of a worse one. Any help and advice given is appreciated and even recommendations on books would be great.

Well even if a person can describe how Stoics think here, the simple truth is that you're *imminently* going to enter into this situation, so your prospect of adopting that mindset before you go is "zero". It sounds like you need advice that can be applied immediately. Well, it's obvious that you are making matters worse by imagining how terrible it will be and dwelling on how much you don't want to endure it. Where Stoic philosophy can help you is in the thing it claims you control even without training - your own volition, which is the things you've resolved to do or not do. With no training at all, you can resolve to commit yourself to *trying* to make the best of it, rather than fixating on all of the things you hate about it. You do control your attention, and you control the approach you intend to take to situations (even if you cannot fully execute that approach). Doing that each day, so that you've resolved to face the upcoming situation, will make you feel better about it. You will at-least not go into it kicking, screaming, and complaining. It'll still be scary, but not *as* scary - without any of the requisite reading or practice, that's as good as it's going to get. But that's pretty good. For most people, simply opting to endure difficulty rather than piss and whine through it is enough to live a pretty good life where anxieties are conquered pretty quickly.

Can anyone help me achieve a mental state or mindset that will help me get through an extremely difficult period in my life that I know will come shortly?

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Lately I feel like i guess what religious people call a crisis of faith. I follow stoic values or at least the ones I hear of. And in general try and lead the life of a decent person. But the more I go through life, especially lately, the more you find out how indecent people are. For example I know a person who complains about how no one treats him fairly and he's losing all his friends. But he tries to sleep with his friends girls. Or a guy who talks about how crap people are, yet he tries to game multiple women and hide it all from each other them. Or a girl who's boyfriend said he'll leave her if she keeps doing something, does it anyway, and then begs and cries for him not to leave when he packs his bags. It's driving me insane. To be clear, it's not so much that there is bad things in the world. My mind would be more clear if there was just evil people let's say who do evil things. I would be more okay with that. It's more of the fact that people say one thing and do another. They are a crap person themselves and complain or can't take it when crap happens to them. Just don't do the shit thing. And the thing is, they know what they're doing is bad but they do it anyways. That's what's driving me nuts. Any stoic advice for this please. I know I should be indifferent but I think I need more than that if you have any. Thanks.

This chapter of the Discourses of Epictetus should be relevant: [That We Ought Not to Be Angry with the Errors (Faults) of Others](https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/epictetus/discourses/george-long/text/book-1#chapter-1-18) And this one too: [That We Ought Not to Be Angry with Men; and What Are the Small and the Great Things Among Men](https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/epictetus/discourses/george-long/text/book-1#chapter-1-28) >And the thing is, they know what they're doing is bad but they do it anyways. That's what's driving me nuts. Epictetus claimed this is literally impossible for a human (the quote is from the second fragment i linked): >We have the fit and the not fit (duty and not duty), the profitable and the unprofitable, that which is suitable to a person and that which is not, and whatever is like these. Can then a man think that a thing is useful to him and not choose it? He cannot. (...) She thought that to indulge her passion and take vengeance on her husband was more profitable than to spare her children. It was so; but she was deceived. Show her plainly that she is deceived, and she will not do it; but so long as you do not show it, what can she follow except that which appears to herself (her opinion)? Nothing else. Why then are you angry with the unhappy woman that she has been bewildered about the most important things, and is become a viper instead of a human creature? And why not, if it is possible, rather pity, as we pity the blind and the lame, so those who are blinded and maimed in the faculties which are supreme?

I feel like I'm losing my mind. Advice needed please?

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Hoping to get a little advice. I am fairly new to stoicism, but already see that this is a philosophy that I want to try and live by. I have read medititations, the handbook, and journal in the morning and the evening, and take a walk every lunchtime just to think and meditate a bit on what I have read that day. The problem that I am finding is that outside of these times, in my normal day to day life, I am finding it very hard to practice stoicism and not not just fall back into what I nomally behave and react to life. For example, at the moment I want to focus on what is and isnt in my control and try to frame my day in that context, however as soon as I finish my journal entry and start my day I pretty much forget about thinking about what is and isnt in my control until the end of the day. So my question is, does anyone have any advise on how to keep stoic thoughs or exercises at the forfront of your mind thoughout the day? I understand that stoicism is a philosiphy that you practice, and the more you practice the better/ easier it gets, but I feel like i need little help in the practical aspect of it. Many thanks in advance.

The problem you're having is simply one of psychology - you're imagining it's possible to instruct yourself to believe something is true. This is akin to believing that a person who does not play the guitar can suddenly write and perform great music by *instructing* themselves to "play the guitar really well", and trying to hold the image of themselves playing the guitar really well in the front of their mind. Just as you need to actually comprehend the truths of music theory and have practiced applying it to your instrument in order to be a musician, you need to understand the truths of philosophy and have practiced applying them to your life in order to embody the axioms you believe to be true. Fortunately, testing a philosophy for truth and applying it to your life are done at the same time, in a constant evidence-based feedback cycle. Now a note in your literature - both the Meditations and the Enchiridion are dubious in that neither one presents philosophical arguments. Both are references for an already-learned Stoic, and (by design) they don't contain the learning material itself. Fortunately, both are primarily influenced by the Discourses of Epictetus (although Marcus Aurelius likely received those lessons from the actual Arrian or someone with direct lineage from Epictetus) - *that* is the book you would need to be studying. Each time it makes an argument and claims something is true, you'll be wanting to design a specific test against one specific behavior in your life to analyse the truth of it. You say you start your day then experience some kind of upset - well, you would need to identify the recurring forms of upset to which you are subject, and for each one design a *specific* alteration in your behavior that is within the capabilities of your willpower that changes your behavior to that suggested by the arguments Epictetus puts forward, to see if they really do hold. Right now, I doubt you're absolutely convinced about what is and isn't in your control - I doubt you could precisely describe what is and isn't in your control or even what is meant by "control" in that context, so how could you possibly apply it to your life?

Advice on how to practice stoicism throughout the day.

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What would be the relationship of a Stoic with wealth? Should one strive/work hard to make money( materialism ) or one should just sit back and relax and enjoy life because happiness is within you and not in external things ( some form of laziness ). I am currently studying to be a Finance and Tax Professional and my major motivation is money, I am interested in concepts of Finance but the motivation for my work would be to earn to sustain myself. Sometimes I feel this is not a virtuous act but at the same time if I don't work hard, I will just be idle and lazy, which is not virtuous either Please advice on this.

Luckily, the Stoics had a lot to say about wealth in relation to the good life. Cicero's *Stoic Paradoxes* might not be the worst place to start. There's a pronounced "Cynic strain" in Stoicism, and I'm partial to it. Rufus' *Lectures* 19 and 20 help show what I think to be the best approach.

Major Dilemma : Money and Stoicism

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Hello, about a week ago I - in a very unforeseen turn of events - was betrayed by a friend/mentor whom I have loved and respected for years. I felt emotional distress at the beginning, but quickly gained control and handled the ensuing conversation with self control and a calm and collected demeanour and mind. (Not my previous normal of even a year ago, Thank God For Stoicism!) By the end of the conversation I realised that what had been done, though disrespectful and wrong, was not done in malice, but ignorance and human immaturity. I felt sorry for him, but I also believe that because of what was done and how it was handled, that it is right that I remove him from the mentor position, and that I put some separation there. (I don't hate him, I just know that I cannot trust him right now. And he is in no mind frame to earn back trust.) Now to the point of my question; Though in the moment I felt in complete control of myself, I now find that even when I keep control of my thoughts, I find my heart grieving as if he had died. I actually had a beloved man that I looked up to, die last year and these emotional and physical responses are indistinguishable. My head feels slow and foggy, I have difficulties falling asleep, but it takes everything inside of me to get out of bed, I am constantly tired, and I will have very strong half-second bursts of emotion, where I will be fine, not thinking about anything pertaining to the subject, and suddenly I would feel an overwhelming urge to sob, and before the tears that are forming can leave my eye, the feeling has passed entirely and there is no resurrecting it. (I have had depression in the past, I don't believe this to be it.) I know stoicism is not the lack of emotion, but the reining of emotion as a tool. A servant and not a master. I guess my question is, how does one stoically process? I just feel like now, without my control, my emotional processing has been halted, and that it's coming out in other ways. How do I stoically mantle this obstacle? It's not that it's unbearable, and I know it will go away in time; I just feel like there is a better way. Thank you all for reading, and for your responses!

>I know stoicism is not the lack of emotion, but the reining of emotion as a tool. A servant and not a master. Not quite. Emotional homeostasis is a happy byproduct of Stoicism, but emotions are neither tools, servants, or masters. They are an integral part of the cognitive process that includes but are not limited to our complex social relationships. Rather, Stoicism is a philosophy that argues three things are necessary for flourishing (*eudaimonia*). These three things are knowledge of reality, logic, and ethics. A lot of people get introduced to Stoicism as a self-help tool in a roundabout way through ethics, but that's only one part. You're already considering knowledge in the sense that you recognize behavior serves the function to do the right thing, even if the product of someone else's behavior results in something very much uncomfortable for us. >I guess my question is, how does one stoically process? I just feel like now, without my control, my emotional processing has been halted, and that it's coming out in other ways. How do I stoically mantle this obstacle? It's not that it's unbearable, and I know it will go away in time; I just feel like there is a better way. There is a better way, and this series of posts lays the process out very nicely in my opinion: [Introducing Stoic Ideas](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/search/?q=%22Introducing+Stoic+Ideas%22+author%3AElAround+&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&sort=new). You might consider taking the time to understand and analyze your impressions carefully and logically. You might even want to dig a little deeper and get into more broad impressions and assumptions you have about how the world works, how it ought to work, what it means to be good or bad, right or wrong, in general and regarding what people do and what you believe people ought to do. Epictetus' Discourses is a fantastic illustration of this process repeated through various scenarios, and of course Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is an illustration of one learned philosopher acting as his own court philosopher in order to help him sort his own thoughts. Many people find certain letters from Seneca to be particularly insightful, and someone might offer specific ones for you to consider.

Stoic advice on how to emotionally respond to betrayal.

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I'm struggling with rectifying the concept of controlling what is within my control with my natural desire to run/manage/control everything in my family's life. Just because you CAN control something doesn't mean you should. But if you CAN control it...shouldn't you? Example: an argument between my wife and my daughter. I know how to resolve this, shouldn't I step in? That is within my control. But it's...optional. I don't HAVE to control it. Thoughts on this? How do you think about what you try to control vs. leave alone? And what (if anything) do the Stoics say on this? Thanks to you all for all your advice and wisdom over the years.

> Example: an argument between my wife and my daughter. I know how to resolve this, shouldn't I step in? I think there's a bit of arrogance here, to assume that you can just step in and solve other people's problems for them. To assume that your perspective is so valuable in an argument that does not involve you. I struggle with this as well, so I definitely relate. I sometimes have to remind myself that the world is not waiting with bated breath for me to jump in and share my perspective. Something else you should consider is that *faster* is not always *better*. Just because you can step in and get them to stop arguing, doesn't mean the conflict will be resolved to their satisfaction. It just means a third party stuck their nose in and forced them to stop the argument, possibly without a satisfying resolution on either end. You're inserting yourself where you do not belong, and making their argument about your desire to not witness their argument. Leave them be. Your wife and daughter are their own people, not for you to control. It's hard to remember this when you're watching someone handle a situation in a way you don't approve of. If it's upsetting you, then you should try removing yourself from the situation altogether.

"Control what you can control" as an excuse to try to control everything?

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I've dealt with depression in the past and come out mostly on top, however there is one thing which utterly drains me; the feeling of loneliness. I have good people around me in nearly all facets of life, but still I will feel alone, while not actually being alone. What stoic advice would any of you offer to help dealing with the feeling of loneliness?

There are a couple of things you could try: \*consider if you like yourself. really really like yourself. Stoicism the philosophy (this sub) is all about learning to recognise our self-worth, having self-acceptance, learning to be resilient and self-sufficient as much as possible. I'm not sure from your post if you have read many Stoic materials, but have a look around (esp Discources by Epictetus, or some more modern materials) and work on liking yourself. That means that when you are always with your own best friend and never alone. As you are finding, other people ('externals') are never enough to make you happy \*another tack is simply to accept Loneliness as a being. He will come and go in your life, that's true for most people. I was lonely for a while, even around family. My counsellor told me to accept, and the way I did that was to quite literally speak to him. So I would be in my room and Loneliness might creep in. Instead of being scared of him (which gave him power over me) I learned to say 'hello loneliness, have you come to visit me again. what have you been up to, have a seat' etc etc. Like a one-sided conversation. After a while the conversation got boring and I'd say something like 'you gotta go, I've got to have a shower, or tidy my sock drawer or do some other task' and he would go and I'd be fine.

Being alone vs feeling alone

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Hi all, I'm still new to stoicism, I've only truly been studying it for the last year. The person who introduced stoicism to me was what I considered a romantic partner for the better part of the last 3 years. He admitted to me yesterday that he's been seeing someone over the last month, despite the fact that I've been talking about our future together and he's been seemingly receptive. It's been hard to grasp that he had been untruthful to me and yet at one point I considered him a shining example of stoicism. It's hard for me to reflect on it in a healthy way, and I feel angered reading the very same stoic teachings he would show to me. I know they can help me, as they've helped me through several trials previously. I just don't know where to go from here, and I don't know how to process all the hurt and reactions I've been having. Any advice would help

The only way out of suffering is to go through it

Feeling hurt and betrayed, finding it hard to go from here.

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I am naturally very stoic and live extremely minimal. I do not see a virtue in being minimal, i just do not desire material wealth. In modern society, people always seem to comment on this and try to act as though it is some kind of a problem - especially women who try to come into my life. I eat minimally, but enough. I usually drink only water. I hardly contact anyone. I am very content with this - i need no luxury. I write and create art. I have very little furniture - mainly books. But women seem to try cause problems over this - call me antisocial, say i need to show more emotion, say i need to decorate, say i need to relax (even tho i am), after we make love they want me to be emotional... Women will literally get mad with me because i am not reactive to things in the same way they wish to be - they get mad when i say i don't want certain possessions, or when i do not see the point in certain status symbols, etc. I can be content with pretty much anything meanwhile they will complain at me... I will interject here and say that obviously if i have a long standing relationship with a women i have been with for years then of course i will be perhaps more lenient for the sake of her happiness because of my love for her. But outside of a situation like that, i will remain laconic and firm. I find myself declining dates with women because they always expect me to break my virtues for the sake of their expediency; especially in regards to buying objects and other material aspects of life. Or when they ask for my advice and i give them Stoic advice - which they hate. Anybody else found this to be the case? Is it best to just not date for a while? How do others go about navigating these aspects of modernity whilst remaining Stoic, when it seems people actively try to go against the path?

Reminder to users that advice offered in "Seeking Stoic Advice" threads should be related to Stoicism. Please keep in mind the difference between advice based on Stoicism (the philosophy), and stoicism (the personality trait). The latter is not appropriate for this sub. Violations are subject to removal.

Women trying to make me go against the Stoic path...

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I am struggling to control my emotions particularly in relation to anger. This is partly because of my mental state (perhaps mainly, I don't know). I want to practice stoicism to be a better, more controlled, and (hopefully) happier person. Not just for myself but for the people around me. So my question is this. The stoic approach would be for me to learn to master my emotions and suppress my feelings of anger. However, conventional wisdom would have it that its unhealthy to to suppress my anger and that I should let it out ,not allowing it to build up inside me. I'm not violent and have never, will never,physically hurt anyone , but I knew from my own experience how emotionally scarring it can be to others. Any advice? I'm genuinely confused by this.

For starters, it's not really about "suppressing" your anger. Ideally, you just won't *feel* angry as often or as much when you learn to control your emotions. Controlling your emotions is learned by practicing over time. For me, it's about letting things go. In order to let things go, you have to really accept that **things happen you do not have control over, and that's okay**. Most bouts of anger come from a place of not having control (after all, if we had control we could avoid whatever is making us angry). You need to learn to accept that **we only have control over our minds**, and that getting angry about something you don't have control over is a waste of resources. I also like to bring in a bit of a Zen approach (see Zen and the Art of Happiness), which is accepting the idea that "whatever happens is the best possible thing that could happen." With this mentality you can begin accepting these anger-inducing events as positive challenges to you. The more you can handle them and let them slide the better you'll feel. You'll feel more in control. You'll grow emotionally from feeling like a whining toddler with a temper to a Stoic. Of course, all of this is easier said than done and it takes a lot of practice to really identify how you're feeling at a given point in time and remind yourself to "let it go". Remind yourself that there is no sense in letting this thing upset you. You want this bad thing to control you? That gives it even more power against you. You are in control. You control how you feel. Just have to remind ourselves as much as possible.

Anger control

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Hi all fellow Stoics. First time poster here but been following stoic principles for some years now and really looking for some thoughts and advice. First I will start by praising the stoic principles by which I live by, they have brought me success, loving family and have made me some what of a pillar in my local community. I do however sometimes feel like a fraud !!! People often mention to me how great my life is and this troubles my somewhat. I wasn't always this person, if anything my younger self was a complete loser with not one stoic principle to show of. Which always leaves me the question of how I manged to get to the situation where I am now. Luck ! Maybe, Hard work? some. I am just not sure which leaves thinking is the person I am really the person I am or just a show. Do any of you feel like this? it would be interesting to hear all your thoughts. Amor Fati

So let me get this straight: you used to be a loser, then you started reading the Stoics and applying their principles to your life with great success, and now you feel like a fraud, somehow? Do you feel like a fraud calling yourself literate, since that dumb toddler you used to be couldn't read Sartre for shit? It sounds to me like you're onto something, man. You took steps and they paid off. Now, as to luck v. work, I don't think there's a clear distinction, psychologically or practically. If you work hard, your "luck" will be better. Not perfect, but it'll mod your die roll. And I think you know that luck will only take you so far. The ball can get hit right to you, but if you're not prepared to catch it, what's luck worth? Step back and assess the reality of the situation. Look at the actual, physical state of the universe, unfiltered by your impressions. You're a better dude now than you were before. You're making an effort and reaping the rewards. Doesn't sound very fraudulent to me, brother.

Feeling like a Fraud

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Hello there redditors. i lost so many things including people that i love in last several years and it keeps stacking one by one when something happens i always burst out all my emotions and shut myself afterwards and try to be logical while thinking "its the most stoic way to handle it" but i kinda started to feel bad about it because step by step it makes me emotionless..people around me is already telling it.. I have problems about showing my real emotions since my childhood not because i feel nothing, viceversa i overfeel, but now i feel like im escaping from every situation and try to stay emotionless.. Any advice for it? Thanks in advance have a nice day.

Can you expand a bit on what you believe "it's the most Stoic way to handle it"? Are you referring to the Hellenistic philosophy? And if so, are there any particular philosophers or notions that catch your attention the most?

Lost of a loved one

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Not a new problem. I have recently been going to college and as a freshman, I find it difficult to communicate my thoughts when asked by the professor about something. I stutter and i feel jittery. I love philosophy and I took it knowing that it will be interactive unlike other teacher to student courses. I also find it difficult to make new friends. Are there specific Stoic advices you could give me?

You might consider taking some time to analyze your impressions about what it means for your participation in a conversation to be "good" or "bad," and what those beliefs indicate about what you think it means for things to be good or bad, right or wrong in general. Stoicism challenges you to identify and correct the errors in reasoning that lead to these distressful emotions, because they are errors in your reasoning. From my own experience with social anxiety and general anxiety, I will encourage you to give yourself permission to be patient with yourself. It takes a long time to find, unpack, and ultimately unlearn things you've always assumed are true. This series of posts is a good one I think: [Introducing Stoic Ideas](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/search/?q=%22Introducing%20Stoic%20Ideas%22%20author%3AElAround%20&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&sort=new), and the FAQ and sub's resources are full of good info. I find Epictetus' Discourses to be particularly insightful as well.

Stoicism for Introverts to help us cope

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(Not really seeking for advice, looking more for an answer, but here we go) After reading about a month ago *How to be a Stoic* by Massimo Pigliucci, I kept thinking from time to time about the chapter of love. He centered more the chapter in love as in friendships and not like real love (I mean like relationships) I am curious about how a Stoic would try to find love and what is really love for a Stoic, because being me a teenager (18M) I would like to know how love works and how I should face it, either when maybe looking for it or just how I should face all of the things love carries with it.

Have you considered that the love you're describing might only be distinct from friendship because of your expectations and not because of what it actually is? Can I ask how is it fundamentally different? Maybe there's a reason love of friendship, family, and in your case fatherhood, are all covered by the same word.

Love

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I'm 36 and a journalist, or at least I used to be. After 7 years on the job, I was treated with horrible emotional abuse by my bosses, forced to undergo a humiliating Personal Improvement Plan that ended in my termination. That was in 2021. Despite my best efforts, dozens upon dozens of job interviews, getting to the second, third, and fourth round of interviews, I couldn't find another job. I freelanced as much as I could, got part-time jobs to supplement them, but none of them added up to any long-term stability. After offering some financial support over the last few years, my parents finally offered an ultimatum: they would pay for grad school in a completely new field for me. They, and my friends and partner, think this new fields plays to my strengths. Lacking any other options, and failing to come up with any alternatives on my own, I agreed. The plan makes sense on paper. Yet as I approach the beginning of classes, I am met with sudden anger that is very un-me. I get furious at my old bosses even though I know their actions were beyond my control, I get furious at myself for my career even though I know I was only making decisions with the information I had available at the time. I have made stoic values part of my life, and my partner reminds me of them regularly as I try to work through this struggle. Even though I have this new path available to me, and I should be grateful for it, I feel nothing but self-hatred and despair. Any advice for working through these feelings?

It sounds like you are working through these feelings consciously. That is what you need to do. Don't let any keyboard stoics here tell you otherwise. The truth is, we can know intellectually all we want about the dichotomy of control, or about stoic intellectual philosophy. But when it comes down to it, to real big life events, we actually have to WORK THROUGH big feeling responses. That we are having big feeling flow is NOT a failure. That IS the work of the Stoic. To have big feeling flow, and to let Reason/Awareness/Choice lead, IS the work of the Stoic. There is nothing wrong. Don't believe me? Let's have Seneca back you up on this. Where he specifically says having a feeling is not a problem, not even defined as an "emotion" and certainly not a failure of Reason. >An emotion, then, does not consist in being moved by the appearances of things, but in surrendering to them and following up this casual impulse. For if anyone supposes that turning pale, bursting into tears, sexual arousal, deep sighs, flashing eyes, and anything of that sort are a sign of emotion and mental state, he is mistaken and does not understand that these are merely bodily impulses.... >A man thinks himself injured, wants to be revenged, and then - being dissuaded for some reason - he quickly calms down again. I don't call this anger, but a mental impulse yielding to reason. Anger is that which overleaps reason and carries it away. So I could go into all kinds of practical advice for actually working through these feelings. But the very first thing I think is foundational here, is that *you are doing it* -- you are doing the work. And that the work is actually learning how to let these big feelings flow! For goodness sake, the modern stoic community is deeply confused here if we think there's something wrong with feelings or that we have to make them go away somehow (aversion!). In 5.25 Marcus specifically says, if there is feeling that rises up into our body, we shouldn't make it wrong or attach to it. We just allow it: >if [passions] rise into the soul by any sympathy with the body to which it is united, then we must not attempt to resist the sensation, seeing that it is of our nature; but let not the soul, for its part, add thereto the conception that the sensation is good or bad. way. I would like to offer you a reframe for this phase of your life, that you will likely see in hindsight in 10, 15 years or something - this is a massive time of growth, a massive phase of transition and character development, a massive learning phase. All the places where feelings rise loudly into your experience are learning opportunities, specifically about how to release any attachment (that reality should have gone differently) and aversion (that this feeling shouldn't be here, that it shouldn't be like this, right now). Having large feeling come up is actually a blessing - because you can work through it and then you are someone who knows how to let feeling flow without it becoming an emotion - a thing that hijacks your Reason. It can actually be fun, and enjoyable to work with big feeling once you see it as the free master class that it is :)

Letting go of anger and finding agency

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I have a wife and three children. David who's 8 and the oldest is autistic but goes to a regular school because he functions well enough. He's also gifted. We live in a house right next to a small four-way intersection. We also have a gate to the driveway. My kids all have bikes and it used to be that they could only ride their bikes on the driveway. We recently bought a new larger bike to David which means everybody traded up. Now we open up the gate and let them ride on the street as well. It can be very hard to tell David what to do and what he's allowed to. He can be reasonable but you often have to tip-toe around things or present some things in an off hand way like you just thought of something. David used to be afraid of cars which was great. He had respect for them and the concept of dying. Now he seems to have lost that. He also seems to be in a phase where it's extra hard to tell him things. Since I told him he couldn't ride **in** the intersection and only on the street in the opposite direction he's made a point of doing so. First I tried to stop him but now I let it slide because otherwise things just escalate anyway. I'm usually out there with them and I stay close to the intersection so I can easily pick up on when a car is coming. Yesterday a car came and the driver saw David and slowed down but David still made a point of riding out in front of the car several times. I told him he couldn't do that. He said "Yes I can". I got angry. He screamed. I took his bike. It was ugly. How the hell do I stay stoic in this? I mean, being a parent means you literally aim to control other people - to a degree anyway. And this is my kid and the risk of him getting injured we're talking about. And I can't take his bike away. It won't lead to anything. I don't expect you to advise me on autism or parenting but I'll take **any** advice I can get. Fellow aspiring stoics, hit me with what you got!

Quite a bit to unpack here. From a stoic perspective you control what you can control with the virtues in mind. If your son is at risk you have an obligation to his safety and there are elements you can control (such as consequences to his behaviours). Of course, how these work may depend on the child.

Staying stoic when my kid's life is on the line

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I've been aware of some practical exercises to apply Stoicism to daily life. However, I find myself still doubtful about which frequency would be adequate for a begginer. I also would appreciate some advices regarding journaling: can any Stoic exercise be applied to written reflections? Thanks a lot!

The most important Stoic practice is having it at hand and that comes from study and understanding the material. You can't use what isn't there and it's only a Stoic practice if it's rooted in Stoic theory. Once it's present in your mind then you work on addressing your own judgments which might take the form of journaling, talking to someone, thinking in a stricter way, and the like. Can I ask what are the practical exercises you are aware of?

How often do you practice Stoic exercises?

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Throwaway because too careful and never like to discuss things publicly. And please no advice about breaking up the marriage, just save that please. I love them thoroughly and entirely. Need some stoic advise on dealing with high emotion relationship times. Stoicism has helped greatly in my relationship but still not close to 100% (and nothing is...). Not sure if there are some mantras or practices that could help, but a typical every 3-6 month argument goes: 1. Something triggers it, simple fake example: Tension is high and we both knock over milk. 2 . They get emotional and upset, cry and say mean things: "You are stupid you spilled the milk because you #$@!$ing clumsy." 3. I get emotional and say mean things back: "No you are stupid, you are !@#!ing untidy and left it there!" Now this is where the issue is. The argument now is about me cussing at them and calling them untidy. For the next 3 days, they wont talk to me, crying, sad, sleeping on couch. To me, we were high emotions, tensions, they start cussing with accusations, and I return... I forgive them for saying I'm clumsy, what they said was a high emotional time, we were upset of the milk... But to them, now I'm the "POS that called them untidy, this is unforgivable and now what the argument is about!" I've seen this pattern again and again, and try to walk away. I go to stoic quotes on the reddit and internet, try to think deeply on it. Try to come to them and start healing sooner instead letting it dwell. Stoicism has helped me greatly and I would say it's taken the fuel out of a LOT of argument fires. A possible 3 day fight is over in 2 hours... I love them. But it's not perfect, and over the weekend we had another one. This time I felt like I stayed calm, explained how I felt as calm as I could. but apparently It still hurt their feelings, and now we are both hurt on day 3, and the fight is now about the higher emotion argument. This time they said I seemed mocking (I sometimes chuckle when in tense moments but thats nothing new). I'll own up to it, as I can see what they could have likely seen. Especially if they are at a 10 on emotions and I'm at a 2 and trying to leave the room... But to me is all seems like a trap. If someone yells at you, and if you yell back you are 10x more in trouble... Emotions are high and 1. 'Explaining it' has a high probability of being used against you. 2. 'Leaving' is better but also bad. 3. 'Letting them vent' seems like safest but it puts all the stress on my capabilities which I lack (on top of having my own stressors and vulnerabilities). Hoping to find a mantra, a discussion that I can come back to, to focus on. What are some of your stories? Lessons? Hoping this formats correctly.

>I've seen this pattern again and again, and try to walk away. I go to stoic quotes on the reddit and internet, try to think deeply on it. With respect, the quotes and comments you come across cannot possibly replace learning about the philosophy directly. You don't have to dedicate decades of your life or anything, but if you want to understand how Stoicism can alter your perspective so that you don't get triggered, you need to learn about what it is first. You might find [How To Think Like a Roman Emperor](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39863499-how-to-think-like-a-roman-emperor) a helpful introduction. Using Marcus Aurelius as a vehicle for introducing Stoic topics, each chapter finishes with cognitive exercises you can start with right away. The FAQ and sub's library provide extensive information as well.

How to not fuel relationship argument fires?

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I'm looking for advice. Imagine you wake every morning, and for the entire day, your breath will smell really bad. No cure, no hope. It's not in your head. You then enter a 3 year depressive period after being ostracised by your friends, coworkers, and even yourself. Recently though, you feel slightly better, but the trauma is still there. You have accepted that you give off this smell, and need to move on with your life so that your family can thrive. You also have a small amount of hope in a cure, but you know the way to that is first getting a stable mindset, and keeping your finances up. There are days where you wish to end it. There are days in which your mind is filled with dread and overthinking, negative thoughts. But never less, u keep pushing forward. What stoic principles would you use to help you on this path?

Man, I thought you were describing my life to a T right now. I'm sure there's a good reason you choose to use an analogy to protect yourself; I would do the same thing. As far as stoic principles, I dont have any for you since Im very new to this way of living/thinking myself. What I *have* been doing is reading Ryan Holiday's book 'The Obstacle Is The Way', which I'm sure is a commonly touted book around these parts. Also heavy weight training, Meditation and Yoga regularly have been a gigantic help as well to get me out of my head and into my body and take Action. I would like to hear what others here have to say about this as well.

How would u accept living permanently ostracised?

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I love the idea of Stoic philosophy, but instead of doing things that really matter, like reviewing for an exam, or improving my skills, I procrastinate by reading and listening to materials related to Stoic philosophy. What advice could you give me, seems like I am just loving the idea but not the application.

Studying philosophy is what truly matters because it positively affects your future decisions, like whether or not to do the exam review instead of reading Stoicism. _Then wisdom always makes men fortunate: for by wisdom no man would ever err, and therefore he must act rightly and succeed, or his wisdom would be wisdom no longer. - Socrates, Euthydemus_

Instead of doing things what should really matters, I read books and listen to podcasts related to Stoic philosophy?

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Hello Stoics. I have a story from earlier this week that's 100% true. I need to know if I handled it well or I should have changed my behavior in case I'm put through this again I live in San Francisco and I was in a dangerous area at night (the tenderloin iykyk) for a meeting. After this meeting, most people hang outside the building for a few minutes to chat before going to a bar. I decided that I wanted a bit of privacy talking to my girlfriend on the phone before heading over. So I walked two blocks away and called her up. There is a group of people (male and female) across the street hanging out. My gf and I were chit-chatting before an initial man comes up to me trying to push. I politely declined. Then, a few minutes later I hear some heckling coming from across the street. I wasn't sure if it was directed my way, but ignored it. Then an empty water bottle was thrown my direction. I was not going to be intimidated so I continued to speak on the phone. Then, suddenly, two men (who were around my height and weight, 6'1" 215) come up to me and say they'll "take that phone off my hands." Again, I refuse to be intimidated. I can see a group of people from my meeting walking to the bar across the street. However, one of them quickly shove a gun into my chest. Basically I said "I'm out I'm out" and walked away without a scratch - I even laughed while crossing the street. Because I got away so easily I feel as if they were bluffing and I could have stood my ground longer. As a stoic, I don't want to be rattled or intimidated easily. However, would it have been worth it? What if they weren't? As stoics, at gunpoint, I have this instinct to be like Tommy Shelby. But that's not realistic. It's about making smart choices. What's your advice as a stoic here? Did I handle the situation ok? Was I soft?

What's the upside to staying longer? Fighting, standing your ground in general, is about defending someone or something. Staying in danger for nothing benefits no one.

Was in a dangerous situation, looking for assurance/advice

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Been having a rough last couple weeks, seems like ive just been in a rough cycle of getting sick, needing car repairs, having a big bill that hurts my ability to save, and they seem to come just in time to take care of the old problem. Been having some trouble sleeping and been frustrated with work lately too. Looking for some quotes, passages, stoic advice, reflections, theories, etc that relate or seem targeted towards this sort of "kicked while youre down" feeling. From a philosopher or personal anecdote, either are welcome. Thank you in advance

Some choice quotes: "Difficulties strengthen the mind, as labor does the body." - Seneca "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love." - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1, Verse 1 Personally, I find solace in practicing Yoga and engaging in breathing exercises whenever I feel anxiety creeping in. The focus isn't on pushing myself to achieve elaborate poses or perfect a sequence of movements. Instead, it's about calming the mind and tricking it into a sense of serenity. When you're poised to confront a challenge, your muscles tense, and your heart races as your mind readies the body for action. By fostering focused and rhythmic breathing, the mind interprets that all is well. The stretches that accompany these exercises further alleviate muscle tension. Once I reach this relaxed state, I delve into contemplating the vastness of space and time. I immerse myself in documentaries, books, and articles about galaxies, stars, the Earth's evolutionary history spanning millions of years, the global population, or even the multitude of people engaged in various activities at any given moment. These reflections serve as reminders of the vast scale of existence, underscoring the insignificance of my own life in comparison. My concerns begin to pale in the face of such grandeur. This period of reflection also serves as an opportune time to jot down plans for life after these problems are resolved. While the perspective is clear in the moment, we tend to forget about our worries once they dissipate. Lastly, I believe that actively enduring challenges holds intrinsic value, contributing to one's self-worth. This experience serves as a testament to our resilience, and in the grand scheme of things, it is merely a prelude to the ultimate challenge we will all face-death. Wishing you the best of luck!

Quotes/Ideas for when life seems to keep kicking you while youre down?

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Greetings fellow practicing Stoics, I'm seeking your advice on an issue that seems very minor on the surface of it, but has been really bothering me and my wife over the last few days. We are currently getting our new house renovated. My wife has been in charge of the project, and has done a splendid job so far (although I may be remiss in telling her this too often, which is my fault). I had been hands-off for the most part, only weighing in on major decisions. Recently, after a 4 week gap in which I visited the house, I noticed that some new wood had been installed in a large part of the house. The colour and type of wood really bothered me - it completely ruined the Nordic look we were going for. My wife chose it herself; both she and the designer we hired thought it looked great. Ironically, this was the one decision I had not been a part of directly (she'd invited me to the store, but I could not make it then because I thought this was something she could handle). We have been in a major argument about this for the last few days. I've been trying to get past it, but just cannot deal with this wood choice. I've accepted that I can only control what I can control, and am willing to pay the difference (a few thousand dollars) in terms of buying new wood and getting it redone. My wife completely disagrees though. She said that doing it would delay our timelines significantly and that we would be at risk of not meeting our October move in date. She also views it as an attack on her design aesthetic and said that I should have been a part of this decision if I had such strong opinions on wood. As such, I reluctantly agreed to drop this redoing idea, but just cannot get over how this has ruined the look of our house. I am trying to accept it and focus on the good things (I'm fortunate to be in a position where I can buy a house and spend money refurbishing it), but just cannot get over how it makes me feel. I guess I'm bummed to some extent because I was so reluctant to buy a house in the first place. I mainly bought it because my wife wanted one, and I wanted it to be perfect. We were aligned on how we wanted it to look, so I thought this wood selection was something she could handle. Clearly, it didn't work How can I get past this in a Stoic way? I'm annoyed with myself and my wife to some extent. I know it's minor, but I just can't reconcile with the fact that we should both be happy with the house we've spent money on.

why does she think it is good while you find it bad?

Advice on How to Deal with A (Seemingly Minor) Issue

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For context, over the past few months I've had a limerence and have obsessed over 2 people. Each one going up and down in intensity. Sometimes it dies down, and then the obsession resurfaces again every once in a while. First one still resurfaces sometimes, second one is about 70% dead but much less still gets triggered. There's a third one but it feels much more unofficial, the obsession was just as intense but dies down much unexpectedly easier, or at least so far. Nevertheless I still have the obsession. Can't say I can go a day without either having the obsessive thoughts or being concerned about this issue. Might as well just be my hormones going through the roof but either way I can just be looking at a picture or have a convo with them and they're stuck in my head for the next few days. I can't seem to shake the feeling as if I'm stuck in a cycle of turmoil. I'm just so worried that I'll crush on or obsess over just about everyone I come across throughout the next years of my life. I am definitely not intending to live with this, unless I really have to. I have some approaches (mantras) for when the obsessive thoughts arise, but they're not 100% effective all the time. And like is this ever going to end? This limerence thing feels forever. Do I really just need to accept the fact I can't erase it completely from my life? I don't want to spend the my life crushing on unrealistic nor real people everytime. And I also face the tempting urges to indulge in the things that triggers limerence such as songs, videos or pictures etc. Very much like junk food, I want it despite knowing it's bad for me. To summarise it, I'm bothered by resurfaces, the feeling of being trapped in a cycle of always crushing on people, the seemingly long lasting limerence, obsessive thoughts, temptations and the inability to accept that I can't fully erase my experiences with limerence, or if I even need to. What do you guys think? What principles can I apply for this? Any advice, solution, strategy, mantra or approach for these issues. I would also appreciate it if it's possible for you to list out some advice for each problem.

Remember that in life you ought to behave as at a banquet. Suppose that something is carried round and is opposite to you. Stretch out your hand and take a portion with decency. Suppose that it passes by you. Do not detain it. Suppose that it is not yet come to you. Do not send your desire forward to it, but wait till it is opposite to you. Do so with respect to children, so with respect to a wife, so with respect to magisterial offices, so with respect to wealth, and you will be some time a worthy partner of the banquets of the gods. But if you take none of the things which are set before you, and even despise them, then you will be not only a fellow banqueter with the gods, but also a partner with them in power. For by acting thus Diogenes and Heracleitus and those like them were deservedly divine, and were so. called. Enchiridion 15.

What would be a stoic approach or what's some advice you guys can offer for my situation?

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My time with stoicism has taught me a lot. Especially when it comes to interacting with other people who try to practice stoicism. But one thing is very clear and it's that everyone seems to have a different definition of stoicism. How is it that we're all trying to practice this way of life when we all disagree on it? So many people preach about being stoic in this community and I still see petty arguments like any other subreddit. I'll see stoic advice and some ridiculous insult of a person's character all in the same sentence. It's very disappointing. I want to discuss what stoicism really means to us and how do you define it?

Recognizing emotions and accepting them. Trying my best to control them and not let them influence my decisions. To not sabotage myself aka acting on emotions. Taking time for myself to reorganize myself, at best daily. Try to see myself and the point where I am from the outside. Asking myself questions like \how will this effect me? Just for the next 5 minutes, or for 5 years? Is it just for 5 minutes,let it go and don't look back". Pretty much something like that.

What does Stoicism mean to you?

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I don't consider myself a stoic practitioner just yet. I've only been reading about the philosophy for a few months now. But I have noticed some positive impacts on my life from it, especially not worrying about external things I can't control. I still have self confidence/self esteem issues and am generally introverted, but I feel like I'm getting better. I have friends who genuinely care about me and want me around, something I've never had before now. But one thing missing from my life is love. Romantic love I mean. I've never had a girlfriend. And I genuinely think that, even though I have friends now, I'd still feel lonely in their company because I don't have someone by my side who loves me. There's this one girl in our group who is everything I find attractive in someone: she's smart, funny, loud, outgoing, basically everything I'm not. And I feel jealous that she has a boyfriend. Not in the vindictive sense, mind you. I don't say "He's not good enough for her. But I am". They're genuinely happy with each other. And I'm happy that they're happy. But at the same time I get that sense of longing. That "I wish she was mine" mentality. I'm just looking for general advice on this. How could I find love? Should I even seek it out?

Remember that in life you ought to behave as at a banquet. Suppose that something is carried round and is opposite to you. Stretch out your hand and take a portion with decency. Suppose that it passes by you. Do not detain it. Suppose that it is not yet come to you. Do not send your desire forward to it, but wait till it is opposite to you. Do so with respect to children, so with respect to a wife, so with respect to magisterial offices, so with respect to wealth, and you will be some time a worthy partner of the banquets of the gods. But if you take none of the things which are set before you, and even despise them, then you will be not only a fellow banqueter with the gods, but also a partner with them in power. For by acting thus Diogenes and Heracleitus and those like them were deservedly divine, and were so. called. Enchiridion 15

What is the general stoic view on seeking relationships, specifically love?

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Well, I love a girl who isn't virgin ( 22F) and I am virgin ( 25M), In India it's specifically tough for men to get sex so I am not a minority here atleast.... I love her and I do understand that virginity and stuff hardly matters, it doesn't guarantee loyalty or trustworthiness, just need some stoic advice on this as I follow stoicism.

I find it very odd and a little disconcerting that so many posts in this forum are about relationships from teenagers and young adults... but I guess I appreciate the effort you are making to reflect a bit. We first need to look at the facts and whatever the hell the actual question is that you have buried in here. Facts: * You love a girl * She isn't a virgin. * Virginity is an issue for you So first and foremost: * Does she love you back? If not, then end here because the rest is pointless. Lets assume she does love you, so you have the issue of virginity. You need to ask yourself: why SPECIFICALLY is virginity an issue for you. * There is a huge cultural component here so understand that your beliefs are not your own, they are a product of the environment and culture you were brought up in. Were you born french in france, you would have different values and this would not be an issue. * So is it a values issue for you? * If so, are those values important to you, and if so why are they important to you? * For a lot of people, they are afraid of the communities' reaction. Are you worried your friends will find out and make fun of you? Or your family? * How important is that to you and assuming that virginity is not valuable to you, is that something you will be willing to stand up and defend? In short, you need to really question yourself about extrinsic as opposed to intrinsic values and where you will choose to stand.

What would a stoic do in this scenario

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TL;DR \-Had goal of becoming financially independent/ building an automated business in order to live life on own terms \-Achieved goal but now struggles with feelings of not doing enough, loss of purpose, and motivation \-Enjoying/exploring life vs. business/financial success \-Looking for Stoic insight to help break internal loop I started writing in my journal this morning and noticed that each journal entry has a consistent theme. Usually, I pull out my journal on days when I am struggling with guilt/anxiety for not feeling accomplished, to contemplate on where my motivation has gone in recent years, or on the contrary, to talk myself into why I should be more content with my situation in life. Instead of continuing to write the same thing out to myself, I figured that I would come to Reddit to seek some Stoic advice and see if others may have some insight that may help me break my internal loop... To start, I have a great life. I am 36, in a happy marriage, have an incredible 4 month old daughter, and would consider myself financially free (for the moment, at least). I left a corporate sales career in 2018 to start my own business, with the ultimate goal to become financially free and have the ability to travel, play a big part in my future children's lives, and live life on my own terms. After college, I saved up a bit of money and traveled around the world for several years (finding odd jobs along the way to support the shoe-string budget trip) and learned that there were other ways to live besides the 9 to 5 / hustle mindset that is forced upon us in the US. After returning, with less than $10 to my name, I started a career in sales and spent the next couple of years climbing the corporate ladder, but that lesson was always in the back of my mind and after finding the right opportunity (and some inspiration from the book, The 4-Hour Workweek), I took the entrepreneurial plunge in pursuit of a life with more freedom and after a few years of "hustling" I achieved my goal. I currently have a mostly passive business that requires less than 4 hours of my time per week to continue operating "as-is." There are definitely things that I can do to improve the business, but I have somehow lost the motivation, ability to focus, and execute. I have always viewed these traits as the reasons that I have been able to accomplish any of the success that I have had, as I do not have a specific skill/specialty ie operations, marketing, engineering, etc. It has all happened because I was willing to do/try things that others wouldn't, take risks, and put myself out there - consistently, on a daily basis. When I think back on it, I am in the exact spot that I had dreamed of for most of my adult life. I have a wonderful family, I am able to spend plenty of time with my wife and new daughter, I am able to enjoy hobbies, read, travel, exercise etc. I am in the best physical shape of my life, eat healthily, do not overindulge with drugs/alcohol, and should realistically be able to remain financially free for the foreseeable future. However, I have an almost daily internal battle with myself and am constantly fighting anxiety that I am not doing enough. In the past, I have been most happy/content when I am achieving business/financial related success, but I seem to have lost the drive and motivation to make them happen. I am not optimistic about my current industry and any opportunities that I find I try to find reasons to pass on them. Daily, I find reasons to distract myself from my business "to do" list and am normally successful in avoiding it (gym, family time, reddit, golf, reading, meditating, random errands), even though I know that completing it will help to alleviate my anxiety. Part of me thinks that my problem is laziness and lack of discipline, but that never used to be a problem in the past... I used to wake up excited to crush the day. The other side of me feels that I need to learn how to be "ok" with not consistently achieving more in a financial/business sense and that I should be proud of what I have accomplished and enjoy the fruits of labor. I feel like these negative thoughts come from being in sales and having the constant grind mindset instilled into me and the culture around me (ie the "hustle" type influencers on social media and the types of people celebrated in our media). Both of which contradict the lessons that I have learned from traveling, my initial goal for creating a more free lifestyle, and the spiritual type realizations that I have experienced. I know deep down that there is so much more in life to explore than business/financial success, but I can't seem to shake the underlying feeling that I am not doing enough. Anyway, I understand that this may seem like the ultimate privileged problems post and I am sorry that it ended up so long, but I would love to get some insight from others that may be able to help.

How familiar are you with the fundamentals of Stoicism? The theme that's coming across in your post, very loudly, is valuing externals. And perhaps as you've found - when one does so, it's never "enough." The way you feel about all of this will change when you can shift what it is you value in life.

Achieved goal but now feeling lost and unmotivated

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Hello, I have been practicing Stoicism for some time now, but I need some advice on one thing. Suppose someone insults us or behaves badly to us. What mantra do you use to keep your inner peace? Next, I would like to ask. I know the Stoics said that you are in control of what you think about the situation. But how do I prevent myself from thinking anything bad about the situation, from being offended, and thus maintain my inner peace? What mantra could help me not to think of the situation as someone trying to bring me down? So far, Amor Fati comes to mind - What is this situation trying to teach me? Next, the dichotomy of control. However, I would like to get other answers to my questions. Thanks a lot and have a great day.

"This person obviously wants a fight. Why would I give them what they want?"

Mantras to keep inner peace when somebody insult us

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Hi all, I'm relatively new to Stoicism, and what triggered my interest in the philosophy was finding out my wife of 13 years (20 years together) cheated on me. We are now going through a divorce, and for a time are living together. I'm finding it very hard to suppress my anger and sadness around her and the kids. I understand that I cannot control what she did to me. I understand that I need to do my best to be virtuous. But when such terrible wounds are so fresh and raw and she's in the house already having grieved for the marriage and I'm just getting started... I'm having a lot of trouble. Especially because I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for our two children. Any advice on how to handle a situation like this through Stoic practice would be greatly appreciated!

Journal - get your thoughts out on paper or on your mobile. Exercise- the activity can shift your mind's framing of the situation and help your own wellbeing. The Obstacle is the way- what opportunities (although they may not seem like it now) could you take from this situation. Read- read about remaining calm in adversity, be inspired by other people's stories. Do not suffer imagined troubles. Write a list of everything that is happening and mark against each what is in your control and what is out of your control. Let go of the stuff out of your control- think what you can do with the things that are in your control. A quote that I draw strength from- 'You can't calm the storm so stop trying. What you can do is calm yourself. The storm will pass'.

How should a Stoic deal with co-habiting through a divorce?

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I always had the feeling I was the kind of person who takes relationships very seriously, even though I've never actually been in one. When I was depressed and voiced my concerns about being single and having trouble with finding love, people always told me I had to stop trying to find a partner and work on myself instead. All that self-love and self-improvement kind of talk, pretty much. Of course I listened and did just that, because I realised that I was unwell and clearly unfit for a relationship anyhow. Fast forward to now, I'm doing all those things people told me to do when I was depressed. I started going to therapy, began healing my emotional scars and learning to love myself, I found healthier and more enjoyable hobbies, I started volunteering to find fulfillment, I try meeting new people and making more connections. All in all, a big improvement and I'm content with where I am now. Thing is, I still feel like something is missing in my life. I get it, you can't be happy 100% of the time and life naturally has its ups and downs, so you can't expect to be perfectly happy just because you're no longer depressed. But still, despite my life being much better than it used to be, I still feel like it's just underwhelming somehow. It appears to me that the only thing that I am indeed lacking is an intimate relationship, so I started working on pursuing that. And that's when I realised just how unhappy I actually was. I realised that I was distracting myself with other things such as my career or hobbies or friends, and didn't really bother thinking about finding a partner because I felt like I wasn't ready. But now that I am ready, and am confronted with wanting to look for someone now, I can't help but worry about how much this is affecting my mood. Not sure how to formulate what exactly I want help with, but decided to just make this post and see if anyone has any stoic advice to give.

Maybe you're stuck in FOMO. Life is never totally happy or totally fair. No one ever has it all, no one's life is ever perfectly fulfilling. I worry about this idea that you think someone else is going to make you happy. That's not their job, they aren't an object that exists to make you feel whole. It's not fair to expect another person to fill a void you have within yourself. All the movies, tv shows and instagram photos make marriage/partnerships look perfect and amazing, but those are fantasies. Relationships are also a lot of compromise, arguing, and driving each other crazy. (Or worse.) There are a whole lot of people who are in relationships and wish they were single. Everyone thinks the grass is greener. Just remember, other people can leave you or die, so you can't expect them to fix you or prop you up. You have to find fulfillment in yourself. I think the best advice is to stop focusing on what you think you lack in life (this relationship) and instead just enjoy what's going right in your life. Just keep casually dating and making lots of friends and social connections. The more people you know, the more you are likely to find more people to date, and one of them might turn out to be a love match, just don't expect it to make you perfectly happy. Stoicism teaches us to love ourselves,what we offer the world, and our self development above all else. The power of choice. Chose happiness and Forget about your feelings of being single. You were born single and tomorrow you could die single. Love every moment of it. Amor Fati and you will find what you are meant to.

I'm unhappy with being single and I don't know what to do about it

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[Here's](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/157h5ao/my_stepdad_said_that_stoicism_was_the_work_of_the/) the previous post I made about how my stepdad thought I was possessed when he caught me meditating. I'm feeling blindsighted right now yall. So the priest came yesterday decked out in all black and I was expecting some exorcism shit but he was actually nice and took me out to go fishing. Like we were fishing and having fun and I was explaining to him my stoic meditations and the teachings of Marcus and Seneca. Tbh he seemed understanding for the most part and didn't even judge me. After we got done fishing, it was a bit weird cause he asked if he could rebaptize me and I said fine cause he was being nice. So like I didn't want my clothes to get wet so I looked like a fucking deer trying to drink water and tbh it was really fucking uncomfortable. But anyway, we chatted about basketball and like my hobbies and shit and he dropped me back home and left. But I walk in the fucking door and I see that my bed was moved behind the fucking couch and the TV. Stepdad said he needed to make sure I wasn't doing any weird shit but I feel like this is an invasion of privacy. Like I'm at my wits end and I might lose my shit at him and try to do some unstoic business. I need advice man like I can't be here anymore. Do I leave or stick it out for the next few weeks? Also he is forcing me to cast my computer screen to the TV when I use it so he can monitor what I'm doing so I'm writing in on my phone rn so apologized for the typos. Anyways I need yalls help man. Like it's just a few more weeks but I might smack him with a rolling pin at this rate. I literally feel like a fucking fool sleeping in the living room. Please help.

I would stay if i don't have the means to leave. However, I would make sure I'm self-sufficient enough in the future so this doesn't happen. Living like this is a great practice in my opinion. Whatever feeling you have in the moment, you can soak it in. You wanted meditation, you've got it..I think the best thing to do is just leave a lot and maybe hang out at libraries and parks; you can even get in some meditation at these places. When you have to go home just read a lot or listen to music. Listening to music while dancing or cooking or cleaning always relaxes me and gets me out of any kind of negative headspace. Maybe look at it as an opportunity to practice your stoicism but leave or do something to get your mind off the situation if it gets to be too much. Another advice is to read Epictetus' Discourses Book 1 Chapter 19: "On How We Should Bear Ourselves to Tyrants.

[UPDATE] Stepdad brought in a priest to "help" me -- he then moved my bed to the living room when we were gone.

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The Stoic writers talk about empathy a lot, but I don't think I feel genuine empathy. I do care about people's misfortunes and want to help them. I try to do nice things for people I know and donate to charities that I think are doing good. But it just seems like it doesn't come from genuine empathetic emotions but rather from a place of "*this person/people suffering from X is a moral wrong that has to be corrected*". I'm personally kind of an oddball in the empathy regard, and I wonder if this is part of the issue. All my life, I don't remember really needing to "vent" or have a "shoulder to cry on" when I'm going through something. I just want it resolved. My emotional problems, to me, are no different than a broken pipe or a car that won't start - my number one priority is fixing it so that I can get on with life. I might ask for advice on occasion (like I'm doing now) but I don't recall ever having this need to pour my feelings out to someone. I've done it before when people ask me to, but I've never found anything therapeutic about it, so I don't do it anymore. I couldn't care less if the world acknowledges and validates my feelings about a problem. In some major events (e.g. death in the family, breakup of long-term relationship, etc) I actually find it very undesirable to speak to anyone at all. People always chide me for "bottling it up" but that's not what I'm doing - I'm just dealing with it alone. They tell me it's not healthy and I can't properly come to terms with things unless I talk about them, but I seem to get back to the normal mood and life rhythm as fast or faster than others. That paragraph went longer than I thought, but what I'm getting to is that I think I'm "treating others the way I want to be treated", but the way I want to be treated is completely different than how others want to be treated. This leads to a lot of conflict when people are seeking empathy from me. I usually do what I think is the best thing for them, which is steer them towards some kind of solution. I know they don't want that, but I'm just not sure what else to do in that situation. Sometimes I just sit there and listen, but that's quite unpleasant for me - just being honest. I don't like listening to aimless bitching. I don't know how to describe why exactly it's so repugnant to me. It just makes me instantly tired and exhausted. I can't tolerate it. I've left the room before when people start with it because I can't stand to hear it (maybe it's "empathy fatigue"? I tried to research it but only found info as it pertains to professional therapists/caregivers, not regular people). So I'm not sure how exactly I'm supposed to live. Should I try to communicate to people that I can do a lot of things for them, but genuine empathy is not one of them? Am I supposed to exhaust myself dispensing fake empathy? I understand that most people prefer that I do the latter, but *why* does that make it the right thing to do?

If people want to went, they dont need empathy on the level you want to give them. Often venting is the process to rethink something while talking loudly to oneself. But talking to oneself is something not many people can do in their mind. You are able to do it. You can sort out things by quietly talking to yourself in your thoughts but sadly most people are not able to do this. They need training or someone as the receipient. If such venting begins, they dont look for awnsers. They look to understand themselves. More on a understand what they feel and not why they feel basis. This means they vent to see their feelings. After this venting they need time to understand what they felt. At the moment they understand what they felt they either accept it and dont feel it as important or they start to evaluate the cause. At this point your empathy comes into account. But here is important to understand the diference between narcism and helpfull empathy. Based on you have an idea what is going on, you tell them what is going on and how they should act. Now you are a narcist and not empathic. Dont show them the way, lead them to see a way. If you notice that they are running in circles, ask questions. Short: Venting is not comprehending, giving steps is not helping

Lack of Genuine Empathy

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I've been losing interest in my girlfriend a long time ago. At first I didn't jump into conclusions, I just wanted to wait some time, as a stoic, to see what kind of emotion was this and how to manage it. It's been some time now and I feel I'm still with her because I don't want to hurt her feelings nor her family's since it's been 4 years. I've decided that today is the day I'll speak with her about this and probably end the relationship, but don't know if I'll be able to do it once I have the opportunity. Any advice?

Compassionate, with the aim to not hurt her feelings unnecessarily, without bringing your ego into this, and with honesty. Afaik the stoics don't speak about how to do break ups, but they preferred values like Compassion, Honesty and Humility/Humbleness (?)

How does a stoic breakup?

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Hey y'all, I'm hoping this is keeping in line with rule 2 (newbie here) I want to preface this by saying I'm not a theologian or an expert on stoicism, I'm just a 22 year old guy looking for direction and resources while I try to make an informed decision. Because I'm neither a theologian or a philosopher I will make some incorrect statements and misunderstandings so I'd love to be educated on any errors I make. I've never shared this with anyone in my personal life, so I apologize if this is too long or I ramble on too long. TL;DR at the bottom. My background in Christianity comes from growing up in the Bible Belt and being raised in the church since I was baptized as a baby. While I love the core teachings of Jesus and the way of life we're supposed to follow, I don't feel like I've truly accepted Christ as my savior. I've struggled with doubt from an early age. I would say they are pretty common doubts like miracles, creationism, literal vs. figurative interpretation, etc. I wasn't really allowed to explore these questions with the people in my life and was dealt with some pretty frustrating answers, like the classic, "because the Bible says so". It felt like exploring these issues was wrong and I just needed to shut up and believe. I've also noticed some of the negative aspects of Christian culture that I'm working on deconstructing now like, intolerance of others, nationalism, and political agendas tied into faith. There's so many negatives to christian culture that I find it hard to even want to associate myself with it. Like purity culture, the new satanic panic conspiracies, mega-churches, and all the big figures associated with them. My dissatisfaction with the church and the cultural issues are what led me to exploring Stoicism. As of now, I've only read "Meditations" and "Letters from a Stoic", so I'll admit I have a long path of learning ahead of me. Despite this, they have left a deep impact on me and I've found myself wanting to pursue the idea of living a stoic life and studying the philosophy. I like that there are similarities between Stoicism and Christianity that make it feel like I'm creating a positive alternative in my life, instead of creating a vacuum. Stuff like living a life of virtue, self-discipline, and not worrying about things outside of your control really appeal to me. As someone who deals with mental health issues, I can also say that I've found more resilience in myself by reading those two books than the nervous reassurance "God will heal you from this" that I've received in the past. I'm not expecting Stoicism to fix all my problems or magically change my life in an instant. I also know it's not without its faults, but I think that this is the next best step for what direction my life should take and I want to begin the work. So with all of that, I'd really appreciate advice on what or who I should read to learn more about stoicism and ways to implement it in my daily life, as I continue to explore this transition. TL;DR- I'm a christian debating leaving the faith because of doubt and the problematic culture and looking for resources to research stoicism before I make a switch.

you don't really have to convert to stoicism it is just a set of ideas. you can learn wisdom from it's teachings and continue to practice whichever religion you like the old stoics just reference roman and greek gods because that is what they had.

Wanting to transition from Christianity to Stoicism

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I had just started appreciating the philosophy of Stoicism. I want to take action by challenging myself, but I don't know how or what to challenge myself with.

Start reading. Discourses is the best place to start. Beyond surface level understandings, Stoicism really requires a lot of reading and re-reading to go deeper and really apply it in all aspects.

Seeking Stoic Advice

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I'm 22 and for my age I am earning a really good amount of money. The job is not laborious which is net positive but the biggest tax is that it provides no meaning to my life, i feel I'm just a number there. I'm neither happy nor unhappy with the situation as the money it provides me with allows me to have hobbies and good times outside of work. I know the stoic mindset is to not be driven by money as it is a partial indifferent but still enjoy it if you have it. But what's the stoic advice for being in a job that is well paying at such a young age but knowing deep down inside that at my age I should be looking towards trying new things and developing a meaningful career? Short version- High paying easy job at young age but no meaning in it. Stoic advice ?

Use it to build experience and financial independence, then reevaluate.

Staying in a easy high paying job knowing i can give more to the world and myself.

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I am in a great relationship with an absolutely killer woman who is now my fiance. Being in the military makes it very hard though. I got stationed in England which is 4800 miles away from my home. I wanted to do this to have the experience and story for my children, and to serve my country. We dated for almost a year before I went to basic. After that I went about 2 months without seeing her. It wasn't bad because I was distracted by sergeants yelling at me 24/7 even when we showered . She saw me at my graduation for two days then I was off to school for 4 months. My school was 4 hours away from home so she visited often. I would say probably every 2-3 weeks. We haven't seen each other for 6 months and she came over for 20 days where I proposed and we had the best time. Now I'm just deeply heartbroken. This girl means so much to me and we will stay in touch often, but for many reasons I won't be able to see her for twelve months. I just hate sleeping alone without her and I'm missing her so much. I'm on day two of her being away from me and I am feeling very somber. I just recently before she visited bought a copy of meditations. Although I'm still reading it I love everything about the stoics and what they stood for. I was just wondering if anybody had advice for me as a"new stoic". Thank you so much and much love

I love what you wrote. I want to start by saying how happy I am that you have found someone for your life that gives you so much joy. I hope some of my advice helps you through your year. A great way to engage with pain and sadness coming from Stoicism is to remember that our emotions are a product of our judgement. And often times, I think our emotions are worth how we judge! You are not somber because this woman you love is apart from you, in a literal sense. You are somber because you have judged her company as joyful and the absence as loss. That which is your delight is now your sorrow. If you were resolved to diminish her in your eyes, that is one way you could reduce your suffering. But I get the feeling you'd far rather suffer than forget how amazing she is. (; And I don't think the goal should ever be to remove all suffering. I think we should understand why we feel what we feel. Sometimes that changes how we feel. If it doesn't, it at least reminds us that we are active agents in choosing our feelings. But it is the practice of virtue that matters. Marcus Aurelius wrote that a blazing fire makes flame and brightness out of everything that is thrown into it. This can be what your year represents to you. You mentioned how your service to country is important to you, and how you want the story for your children. Rather than lament what could be, I think if you fully embraced what is and sought to make brightness out of your discomfort, you may find it as much blessing as anything else. A year far away from one another... How could you make that part of your beautiful story? I imagine having the experience of this longing to be part of the story of love for you. What things does a virtuous man, away from his loved one, do to show his love? Instead of focusing your energy on missing her, see if you can direct it into discovering how many ways the two of you can love one another across this distance. Loss is a void. Filling it, literally, with activities and dreams is often one of the best ways to overcome. Filling it with the practice of virtue will make you feel stronger. You're putting light into darkness. When you miss her, write a beautiful letter and be excited to send it to her. This is *Amor Fati.* Find a way to love this fate, find the gifts in it.

Help with long distance (new to stoicism tag as well lol)

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I'm 23 years old. I just recently had bloodwork taken. My doctor called me and mentioned my levels are on the lower side at 390. The average man my age has around 650-700. I will admit that I do have a bit of a feminine side to me. I didn't have a father figure growing up. My mom was my role model. She is genuinely such an incredible woman. She's a teacher, and goes through massive extents for others. Hence why Seneca's quote of "You must live for others if you wish to live for yourself" resonates with me heavily. I feel embarrassed to have lower testosterone levels. I have come here to get insight from the Stoic community. I would greatly appreciate anyone who can provide me advice.

Thread locked. Reminder to users that advice in "Seeking Stoic Advice" threads should be related to Stoicism.

Does having lower testosterone levels make me less of a man?

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Before you read, he did not die or anything. The title sounds a little misleading. but I have known this guy for over two years now. He and his family are moving away, and it feels like I'm losing my family. Him and his sister are like my siblings, and I love them so much. It wouldn't be so hard if I knew they would be OK, but I don't think they will. My friend suffers extensively from depression, I try helping him but the only way for me to help him is by being around him. He has told me multiple times that I am all he really has in life. I basically lived at his house with his family for a whole summer, and have been over to his house alot this year. His family is suffering though. There mom is really struggling, but also suffers from alot of issues herself. They are not in a good spot mentally at all, and I fear that I'm not going to be able to help them anymore. I love them so much, and they are all I have. I'm scared of being fully alone, because when they leave I will have no one. I am only 18 and have just started getting my life sort of together, but I don't know how to deal with this. Does anyone have any philosophers I can study that talk about this? Or any books I can read? Just any advice, because I'm honestly am at a lost here. I know it's not my job to help them, and I know that they are just holding me back, I know that this is probably for the best for me. It's just I can't let go, I don't want to let go. I know I'm not going to fully lose them, it's me not being able to help them anymore that is eating me alive. I know it's probably for the best. I just need advice on how to deal with this because I'm at a lost. How would a stoic deal with this

One thing I read in a great book yesterday was: Your friend is not and won't be suffering. You have spared them pain and suffering,yes you will feel terrible(I know,I lost a parent last year) But it will ease gradually. Just go easy on yourself. Some good books: Marcus Aurelius-Mediations. Donald Robertson-How to think like a Roman emperor. Vicktor Fankl-Man's search for meaning Epictetus-Discourses. Ryan Holiday-books/YouTube videos. All the best.

How do I deal with intense sadness about losing a best friend?

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Feel free to share stories. I find that the philosophy of stoicism adds to my irritation and frustration.... although there are gems of wisdom that I always keep in mind and appreciate from the Stoics. Perhaps I shall find wisdom and advice from this? Thank you.

Yea it has. Realizing that other people's behavior is not under my control and therefore not of my concern is liberating. I concentrate on what I do control - my thoughts and actions.

Has stoicism personally helped you find peace and happiness?

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I've recently become a dad for the first time. I couldn't be happier about that fact. I love my son more than I knew I could love anything. That doesn't mean it's all been an easy ride. I'd like to think I'm pretty resilient to the challenges of parenting a newborn in the day, but the nights are a different matter. I've never been my best self when I'm tired. Last night I snapped at my wife for more or less no reason, just that it was all getting a bit much for me to take. Not badly, but enough that I wasn't particularly proud of myself. I'm not looking for advice on practical parenting. What I want to know is how do I stay stoic at 3am, when we've done everything we possibly can but he still just won't settle? Any pertinent quotes, recommended reading, or lessons from experience appreciated.

Try the on anger by Seneca, hope that helps.

Advice/reading for stoic parenting

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This is probably the hardest part in my life so far. Last week, my dad threatened mum with a knife. She wanted to leave, we, her children, helped her escape and now she is safe at my place. I cut all contact with dad because I cannot tolerate his abusive, narcissistic tendencies any longer. Last time we spoke I was full of rage ( he is denying anything happened) and I removed myself from the situation, to avoid acting out something I would later regret. This is already tough, but now I find myself constantly alone with mum, supporting her. The most important part is her safety, although I admit I am missing my privacy and peace as she is leaning on me a lot for support, when all I want is to get away from the situation. I understand this is totally not in my control. There is also a bit of friction between me and my brother re the situation, and I am letting thing be for fear that I may say something stupid and ruin our relationship. I understand I need to act rationally and accept what is not in my control. On a less stoic level, I understand I have immense anger at the moment and I have to acknowledge it and dissipate it in other ways, such as the gym. I understand the only thing I can really control in this world is my actions and my reactions. Nothing else. I also understand there is no way through this pain but right through it. (I am also in therapy so that helps a lot.) Lastly, I am slave to my words and master of my silence. Friends, advice is greatly appreciated. I am human and I learned to reach out for support. Thank you for reading.

My advice is to help her find a support group. Abuse victims often return to their abuser because after so many years of isolation and abuse they have no support group. Call around and find a meeting or support group or even something here on Reddit and help get her through the door. You too, not just her. You have a lot to process. Don't give into the desire to push all this down or that you don't need to feel these feelings.

Need stoic advice dealing with a tough situation involving my parents and domestic abuse.

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I've pretty much just come back from a party and it was just awful to be honest, the people were great, the music was fine but there was just so much drinking, I don't really go out much and this was my first party where there was proper drinking and it just shocked me, I knew that people drunk at parties but the attitude everyone had was just so nonchalant and they didn't care at all. To me it was such a horrible thing to see, it's kind if my worst fear, losing control and then seeing that no one would even really care, I get that I can drink without getting really drunk and still stay in control but I just don't like doing it regardless. The issue for me isn't that everyone is doing it or that there's pressure to join in, I don't really care about that and just stay strong and don't drink if I don't want to but its the attitude. Two of my friends got really drunk and near the end went off together, no one really gave a shit, pretty much only my girlfriend was worried about them. Yes they can make their own decisions but there should be at least some concern in my eyes. I just don't really know how to deal with this experience it's so alien to me and I don't know what a stoic would say to help me. I'm doing my best to not judge others for their choices and I'm looking back and seeing that there are things I could habe done that might have made the situation better but it's still hard to come to terms with. Any advice would be appreciated.

The stoic philosophy is interesting because when it comes to other people and their actions it really doesn't matter. Nothing is really a "negative" experience. What can you learn from this? What do you gain from interfering with how they want to spend their time?

I need advice on how to come to terms with this

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Hi there. I've been practicing stoicism for few months. Totally a newbie. Have been reading stuff and trying to apply in my life. But I've met with a very confusing situation which causes me anxiety also. I've been in a relationship for more than an year now. Now my gf thinks that she may identify as a polyamorous person. We started the relationship as monogamous. But it's normal for people to realize things late. Since I've been conditioned in a monogamous way, I'm having troubles to accept that she can love someone else just like she loves me at the same time. I don't like the idea of my gf being with me and loving other dudes. It's not that she already loves someone else, she says there might be a chance and she's comfortable with the idea of polyamory. So from a stoic point of view, since I love her, should I stay with her by accepting the fact that she wants to be in different relationships at the same time or should I let her go? I'm trying hard to accept the idea of Polyamary but I can't. Maybe it's because I have never been exposed to this idea and I was conditioned in monogamous way all these years. Simply I've got only two choices. I'm asking here because I, someone who's interested in practising stoicism, got confused and don't even know which direction should I go to. Couldn't make it short and thanks for taking time to read it. Hope you have an advice or tip to give. Have a nice day!

Reminder to users that advice in "Seeking Stoic Advice" threads should be related to Stoicism. Violations are subject to removal.

I wonder how a Stoic would deal with this

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I have a job, family, friends, single/no kids, I'm sometimes happy sometimes sad. I just don't know where I want to go in life anymore. Wondering if some stoic people here have had similar feelings and what they did? Any advice?

>I just don't know where I want to go in life anymore. "Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat. "I don't much care where ..." said Alice. "Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat. -LEWIS CARROLL, Alice in Wonderland Meaning "If a man knows not to which port he sails, no wind is favorable"_Seneca Also, don't complain, because much worse might come so easily.

Not sure what to do with my life after turning 30, anyone else?

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Firstly, saved up a ton of money to go to europe with a friend who after 3 days of being in France he decided he needed to go home. His decision roughly costed me 3k. After getting back to the states I planned another trip with another friend that is now a week away. Unfortunately, he just canceled on me. Now, both of these "friends" I considered to be good friends of mine so it definitely sucked to get screwed over by them especially when I don't have that many friends. I realize that I need to be thankful for the things I do have in life such as my health, my family, my small amount of friends, and the opportunity to be better everyday but I can't lie when I say I wish I had more friends or at least friends that don't routinely screw me over. Any stoic advice on not having friends/low quality friends?

"When you are looking on anyone as a friend when you do not trust him as you trust yourself, you are making a grave mistake, and have failed to grasp sufficiently the full force of true friendship." -Seneca "For what purpose, then, do I make a man my friend? In order to have someone for whom I may die, whom I may follow into exile, against whose death I may stake my own life, and pay the pledge, too." -Seneca

i keep getting screwed over by friends.

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hello, I am (24 M), I find myself at a crossroads in life and would greatly appreciate your insights and advice. I'm currently torn between staying in Morocco, where I have a comfortable life, a decent job, and close proximity to my parents, or leaving my parents and my country and seeking a "better life" by moving to France. While Morocco provides me with stability and familiarity, it is not without its fair share of challenges. One significant issue is the frequent water shortages that occur in my area. It can be quite frustrating and inconvenient to deal with this problem regularly. Although it is a problem and it will only get worse, I think it is "manageable". I want to know as a Stoic, what would be the best decision to make: 1- Leave to secure a better life for me, my future wife, and my children. 2- Stay close to my parents and my home country as there's no actual reason for me to leave except to seek a better quality of life. PS: my parents are healthy, capable, and not in need of me (at the time) either physically or financially, also emotionally I think they are not in need of me (they always encourage me to do what I want, even if what I want obliges me to leave them, it is okay by them as long as I'm happy).

There is no right answer to this, and there definitely isn't a specifically Stoic one. I take it you have already been to France for an extended period of time? If not, do that before you decide to pack up and move there. As others have said, it is quite hard to just move to another country as things may not pan out how you like. However I would also say if you want to move, you should move. You can always move back, but 50 years down the road you may be in a different situation where you do not have the ability to do so and you may regret not having done it in the first place. We only get the one life, so we may as well make use of it.

Seeking Advice: Choosing Between Comfort / Family and a better quality Life

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I was just promoted into a supervisor position and surprise Ive already had a employee blow up on me. I think I handled myself fairly well I stood my ground without letting myself get as angry as him. But what I'm not proud of is it's bothered me more then I thought and I've found myself ruminating on the event non stop this weekend. Does anyone have suggestions for stoic books on leadership or just advice on how to not let toxic employees bother you?

There is no right answer to this, and there definitely isn't a specifically Stoic one. I take it you have already been to France for an extended period of time? If not, do that before you decide to pack up and move there. As others have said, it is quite hard to just move to another country as things may not pan out how you like. However I would also say if you want to move, you should move. You can always move back, but 50 years down the road you may be in a different situation where you do not have the ability to do so and you may regret not having done it in the first place. We only get the one life, so we may as well make use of it.

Help with new leadership position

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I often struggle with overthinking and anxious worry thoughts, this is part of the reason why I got into stoicism a few months back. I tell myself over and over again not to obsess over that which I can't control but I struggle to truly free myself from the burden of worrying. Usually I worry about whether someone I care about is alright, whether they are safe, and how they are feeling. But I also battle with feelings of inadequacy and even jealousy if I feel someone else is better than I when it comes to caring for and providing for those i hold close to me. Does anyone have any stoic advice for me on how to mitigate this anxiety.

Feelings are like waves, crashing on the beach of consciousness over and over. They won't ever stop coming. It is a constant struggle to release them instead of react. To swim instead of becoming overwhelmed and drowned. Breathe and understand you can't exactly control your emotions, only the reaction to them, or not. Like anything, dealing with emotion takes practice. Focus on making your own "weaknesses" into strengths. You sound empathic and kind. Just knowing that your feelings and uncertainty are going to come, even if they don't serve you. Keep practicing meditation and breathe when situations are difficult. Life is wrestling more than dancing. Edit: if your thoughts are creating those feelings, find a new way to identify yourself in the reality of the situations. Look outside of the original thought. Ask yourself, is this worth getting emotional over? The emotions will create a wreck if you allow yourself to accept them regarding thoughts of insecurity. You're going to be just fine, my man. Edit 2: Consider the overthinking, as the root of the overwhelming emotional waves. The thoughts that aren't rooted in reality have created a realistic mental scenario that makes our body go into a self-destructive emotional cycle. You want the best for others. What can you actually do? Become stronger and more reliable in your actions. Use emotion as fuel for your passions and you will be fulfilled, creating purposeful thoughts and action to provide for others as it seems you care a lot. Then who can blame you for being active, caring and effective in your life? You create a state of imperviousness in a way. This will break the cycle of self doubt.

Dealing with feelings of jealousy and worry

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Helle ladies and gents, a young man (24) looking for some advice. I've been following and applying Stoicism to my life for the last couple of years. It has helped me greatly during tough times but now it seems I'm in the toughest time of my life yet. I'm not here to wallow about my situation, but rather looking for advice. I'll try to tell my story in full so you guys have a good image of what is going on. Currently, I'm primarily struggling with taking care of my grandma (with my parents), she is dying and because of her mental and physical condition she behaves like a child and it's a challenge taking care of her. Besides that, I still have a heartbreak from a girl who I dearly loved (and still do). But due to circumstances, we had to break up. Previously she was the place where I could find comfort and mental peace. But now she's gone and I can't find proper rest at home I feel alone and starting to sometimes feel pessimistic about life. I understand pessimism doesn't help anybody, so I'm looking for advice so I can find peace in this situation and the strength to keep going in the best way possible. I want to take control of my life and find rest in my own home. I'm looking forward to your stories, advice, and wise words <3

If you can tell us what you have read/watched we may be able to comment on that, and point you the way towards good materials and practices, which will def. help you take control of your life and will help you to make the best choices you can, which will give you peace of mind Now, as to practicalities in your situation: *your grandma. It sounds as if she could have dementia (although we all know not to diagnose on Reddit, so that may be incorrect). Regardless, if her mental and physical health have disintegrated, then you and your family should first look for diagnosis and professional support. Once you have diagnosis, then you can get both care, and support for yourselves, and also you can contact support groups for more info on management of her conditions. While you want to provide the best care that you can, it is really important that you and your parents look after yourselves too, have regular breaks, and maintain as many connections and interests as you can, outside of the home where possible *your girlfriend. It is popularly said that we are the only person in our own life from cradle to grave. Relying upon another person for our equanimity and mental peace is an unsafe practice. Even in a relationship, we need to maintain our stability and be as self-sufficient as possible. Stoic practices help us to be self-reliant, that way we can be the best possible partner to someone else. *yourself. It is a skill that we learn in life to release others, to accept that in the end the life we have to live is our own. Stoicism helps us to identify our core values in life, and helps us to live them and make the best decisions that we can every day. That way, when we look back on events we always know we did our best and that is a great comfort.

Stoic advice is welcome for dealing with heartbreak, loneliness, death, and pessimism

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Greetings, fellow seekers of wisdom in the Stoicism forum, I come to you today seeking your insights and guidance as I grapple with a deeply personal and emotionally challenging experience. My husband and I have recently faced our third miscarriage, attributed to a genetic factor that he carries. It has been an arduous journey, and though we can have a healthy baby, it is a fresh roll of the genetic dice with each pregnancy, and so far we have been unlucky. I acknowledge the stoic principle that "they were never yours anyway," suggesting that attachment to outcomes can lead to unnecessary suffering. However, I find myself struggling to fully embrace this perspective in the face of recurrent loss and the inherent sorrow it brings. The pain I feel is raw and profound, and I yearn for a stoic approach that can help me navigate this tumultuous path with greater resilience. While I deeply appreciate the philosophical teachings of Stoicism and the strength it can provide during adversity, I am humbly reaching out to you all for practical advice on how to integrate these principles into my unique circumstance. How can I reconcile my grief with the stoic perspective and find solace in these teachings? I am eager to hear your personal experiences, reflections, and any relevant stoic wisdom that can shed light on this difficult journey. I understand that life is unpredictable and that embracing virtue and maintaining inner tranquility in the face of external events is paramount. However, I seek practical guidance on how to truly embody these principles as I navigate the sorrow of recurrent miscarriage, which I am finding tremendously difficult. [P.S. No fertility recommendations, please, though I'm sure very well-intentioned - we have an excellent geneticist and this is a unique medical situation. We also have no interest in adoption - if we cannot have a biological child, we have decided to live our lives without living children].

My heart goes out to you as you navigate this difficult journey. I cannot imagine the grief that you must feel, but as humans it is natural to try to reproduce, and so it is understandable that you continue to be optimistic and to try again. Def. allow yourself to grieve your losses. There will be those in Stoicism who will say the potential child was never yours, but still you will likely have known the little one was within your body so he/she was physically yours for a while. So too, the plans and expectations that you conferred upon him or her were real, and the losses are real griefs. In time you may have a child, or maybe not. Probably no-one can tell that. You may yourselves wish to set a limit on how many times you try, how many cycles of early pregnancy then grief you are prepared to go through. And that choice may be influenced by how many weeks you go before you miscarry. Keep up your Stoic practices, keep strong, keep many different interests and other people in your life so that this issue does not identify you. You want to be loving to yourself, and a loving partner, and a person of strength and good character. These can define you and make your life worthwhile and a good life. Parenthood if it comes will be a preferred indifferent, not a statement about your value.

Seeking Stoic Guidance: Navigating Recurrent Miscarriage with a Heavy Heart

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I've just recently finished both Meditations and How to be Free (had the Encheridion and some sections of Discourses, by A. A. Long) and I've caught my self reflecting a lot on the way I had been living and how I want to going forward. I'm considering getting a note book and writing my own meditations and possibly passing it down to my kids. Has anyone here done something similar? Any advice before I start? P.S. I've been looking for Letters From a Stoic, but many reviews on Amazon mention that a couple are missing? Is there a certain edition anyone could recommend?

Consider this, are you willing to write things that would make your children and ancestors absolutely disgusted with you? Are you able to be as transparent with that objective in mind? It's not necessarily the case that this will make it harder but it can be a barrier, especially if the aim is to write lessons, we might try to add "bows" that aren't there. The Meditations is a very practical book in the conclusions of a Stoic however most people do not view the world the way Stoics do, we value external things higher than our own character. Part of the point of a book like this is to address those judgments.

I've been considering writing my own meditations

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People always say "Be happy in the success of others" but I am just not able to apply it. Instead of getting motivated by the success of other people I get demoralised. Other people succeeding not only makes me jealous, but more importantly, it reminds me of my own failure. It brings about thoughts like "I couldn't do it but this person could. Am I just not good enough?" Not only is this bad for my mental peace but it also disrupts any progress I've made and makes me want to give up. It also creates a sense of malice that shouldn't exist. How would a stoic deal with this and channel it to better themselves?

How are you measuring success? I am in my early 50s. I have worked my way to ... Ehh .. upper middle class. My family is by no means wealthy, nor do we go without. I would say, we are financially stable. I have 1 job I hate, and own a business which I love I have a modest home at 900 square feet. I am an honest man who runs an honest business. I sleep well at night on a clean conscious. I have a wife who I believe to be exceptionally beautiful, however, that is because I choose to see her that way. She is 5'6", around 200 lbs, and somewhat plain looking. She has beautiful eyes, soft Mousie brown hair, her skin is as soft and smooth as a baby. She's exceptionally beautiful to me because I choose to not judge her according to the "beauty standards" of others. I have 4 children, some I made, some I didn't. They all love me without question. Even the one who has faltered and is making amends. I have friends with huge homes, I have friends who have the latest cars, beautiful jewelry, latest phones. Many of those friends are 1/2 a million in debt. They argue with their families about many things. Are they more successful than me? I have nearly no debt. I have a wife who I adore, and she adores me. I have kids who are little monsters, but I was too. They know they are loved and I know they love me. They will grow and learn. Check the stick by which you measure success. Be proud of your achievements. Each day, the only person you need to strive to be better than is the person you were yesterday. Find peace within yourself.

How do I suppress jealousy that stems due to the success of others?

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I have been following stoicism for under 6 months now and I'm aware of some texts regarding this and how crying is essentially a waste of time. I'm becoming better at understanding my emotions and learning not to simply act on them. But there are days like today, for whatever reason, where I just feel the desire in me to cry. It feels comparable to when I haven't masturbated for some time and I simply want a release. Not an emotional release although It could be from a build up of stress from these new ways I'm trying to handle stress since applying stoic philosophy to my life. Anyone have any advice? Is it ok to ball for a few minutes and then move on? As always, I appreciate your advice.

Yes. You are not a robot.

Is it okay to cry as a stoic?

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Hi folks! I'm normally on a pretty even keel and manage to apply the principals of stoicism, however imperfectly, to most of life's troubles as they crop up. But, to use a pretty non-stoic term, the last few days have felt cursed. It's been an absolute festival of the sort of awful stuff (both professional and private) that would normally warrant its own post. The details aren't that important, in a way, because they are pretty much all out of my control. And I'm doing all the "right" stuff in terms of mental health, including seeking help and support from friends, and feeling my feelings as they arrive. My questions are - What do the stoic thinkers have to say about situations like this, where things have gone thoroughly "Book of Job"? - How have you practised stoicism during periods where multiple serious events have occurred within a couple of days? I appreciate your time reading this, and any responses you may have.

When things go really sideways for me I find solace in the thought that things really couldn't have gone any other way. At least for me the worst part of hardship isn't the hardship itself, but the "what if" thinking and regretting your own actions and circumstances. So thinking that what has happened is a natural and immutable part of a chain of events that begun at the birth of the universe is a huge relief on the burden of regret. I suppose it's a type of determinism, but it helps in times of deep distress.

Any stoic advice for when you're in the absolute pits?

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I try to go tot he gym Monday through Friday and take Saturday and Sunday off. Over the past 6 months I have gotten very good at keeping that fire inside of me and not skipping the gym. Not only do I want to, but I NEED to go every day. Eating right and working out help counteract the not so healthy habits in my life that I'm otherwise ok with but I may feel slightly shitty about, and it really helps with my mental state. Today I am under the weather, I did not go. I feel so bad that I didn't go, it's not that I couldn't, it's that I weighed the pros and cons of going, and I decided it wasn't worth it today, but I still feel like a let myself down, like I let the fat version of me down. Any advice from the ancient stoics about this sort of thing?

Like another comment said you either go or you don't. And since you said you were fat at a point your comment I'd assume you weren't always going to the gym so just think about how far you came. You went from not exercising at all to 6 months straight of exercising so missing one day in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter. I'd suggest you don't stress it.

Stoic approach to skipping the gym

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There's a TL:DR at the bottom. I'm someone who has suffered with mildly severe social anxiety since my teens. So I thought stoicism would be a good philosophy for combating that but also helping other aspects of my life. And I've recently started reading the basics. A current situation that is giving me low-key anxiety is the missing submarine diving for the Titanic wreck. At first I just followed the story. Hoping they would be found. But then my imagination started to run away with me. Imagining how terrifying and depressing it would be to be then right now, if they're still alive. It culminated with me, as a fucking grown man, being too anxious to sleep last night in case I had a nightmare about being trapped on board. I guess it is my tendency to dwell on existential thoughts and feelings that messed me up. My dear of death. Human evil. How vast the universe is. I just don't know how to switch off, or deal, with my natural curiosity and empathy. These sorts of situations leave me feeling disconnected from myself. My brain just shuts off and everything is foggy and doesn't feel real. I know this is called derealisation and it used to last a week or so. Now it's getting more frequent but less severe and is lasting less. Between a few days and a few minutes. So swings and roundabouts I guess. I like being an empathic person. But feel like half of my anxieties and issues stem from this. Does anyone have any advice? I've already spoken to a few doctors who just say "manage your anxiety through lifestyle changes" TL:DR: I tend to focus on negatives and dark thoughts which makes my brain sometimes disassociate. Is there any stoic teachings that might help with this? Thanks for any advice that comes my way.

Have you considered developing any amount of empathy for yourself, because you say you have an excessive amount but i am not really sensing that. (You can manage your anxiety through lifestyle changes, there is no quick fix and it takes a lot of time, effort, and reflection)

Stoicism vs excessive empathy

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I need help. For over a decade I've been addicted to phone/computer & internet. Scrolling through twitter to check news or being in discords talking about stocks. This has cost me easily 6-7 hours a day almost everyday. This may not be the right subreddit but if you were a stoic looking at someone who is unable to break himself off from the outside world, what advice would you give ?

stoicism teqches that we cannot control that which is outside ourselves. i have been thinking lately that perhaps the past, our past actions, fall into this category too, of things we have no control over. in my experience forgiving yourself and viewing your past actions as lessons in a school of sorts helps greatly in giving you perspective. the addictive state wants you to live in the past and try to replicate it fo the future, but the past doesnt exist anymore, and the future is yet to be. "the past is history, the future is a mystery, and today is a gift. this is why it is called the Present" - Master Oogway once you have forgiven yourself, and focus on learning the dichotomy of control, a space will blossom for you to make changes some practical tips: 1. put time restrictions on your devices. i use the freedom app 2. read stoic texts daily 3. read dopamine nation by Anna Lemke 4. recognize your triggers. a good way to do that is the simple word HAALT (i added an extra A) H - Hungry A - Angry A - Anxious L - Lonely T - Tired if you are feeling any of these most likely your way to self-medicate is to go to your phone or the internet. know that everything you need is inside you, but also know that it is ok to reach out to help, via this forum, a friend, a support group, and even a therapist. do not let laziness or stigma prevent you from getting the help you need. making the decision to get help is one of the few things that you can truly control best of luck and may you find Eudaemonia

Distractions

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I am from India(a status driven society, with strong familial values). I used to a be a good student, graduated from a good universtiy, got a good paying job,etc. But I always felt the pay was still low, despite being in the top earners of country, because my friends were making more. At the same time I made a few dumb decisions regarding career(like quitting my job, without another offer at hand). I was overconfident of getting another job, but reality is such that my skill levels were really low compared to competition and I was overestimating myself. So I lost my job and have been struggling to get a job since. And this has put me in massive shame: that I graduated from a good uni and still jobless. I am also heavily depressed and this makes me procrastiante a lot, and I don't even feel like putting any efforts. Am 24 and I feel like am wasting away my life, while my friends and even others are living their lives. I have ageing parents and they can't work, so I have to earn. However, am not confident of my skills, I can't go back to school, I just sleep. I feel very useless, worthless and depressed. I feel like taking up any job, but then the shame is killing me. My routine is fucked, my future seems fuvked too. I am not even doing the bare minimum, but I always wanted to be exceptional. I feel like a fraud. I am avoiding family and friends. I am new to stoicism, I tried following buddhism for sometime, but even that didn't help. I might have adhd. Nonetheless, what advice would stoics give me. How can I improve my quality of life. How to be more productive, live in less shame, and be useful to society. I was a software engineer, but I have no confidence anymore in my coding skills. I feel like a massive loser.

Hello! I will give you the formula to life. I would start with mourning and giving your shame to God. Ask for forgiveness. Then recognize that we live in a world filled with sin. Sin/Evil = Selfishness Now What counters the evil in the world? Love = Sharing That means that you my friend must do what you are doing now and share your testimony or your feelings with people who care and love you. If not then cry out to God and share with him your pain. As a stoic it's best to "share" this pain to people you can love and trust or to the Heavenly Father. Dwelling in the word is actually a sin because constantly thinking "Me, Me, Me" in life. Or "I, I, I" goes against the stoic foundation of a concept known as "The art of acquiescence" where we stop dwelling on how things could be and just accept what is not in our control and have grace and compassion. Master that and you will be more at peace with your life and then commence working towards goals. You also have to understand too that If you want more in life because you aren't happy with where you are at now. Then of course life will be more complicated, so the only way out of being where you are is working for it. Don't do yourself a disservice and the people that Love and care about you a disservice by getting rid of yourself. Remain steadfast and keep working

How to deal with shame?

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Id really like some outside stoic advice on my current situation because my mind keeps moving to the future and what if's, and truthfully, it scares me how easily it goes there instead of enjoying what is. So I met this cool chick a few months back, and that's pretty rare for me. Unfortunately, at the time I was too nervous to ask for her info. By chance, I happend to run into her again a month ago and this time I grabbed her number. After some back and forth texting we finally hung out today for a small puppy date. I found out she's moving to Cali in the fall which sucks, but I also accept. The problem comes in deeper seeded, personal struggles that I don't want to effect or influence anything. When I feel there may be attraction(and in this case I'm pretty sure there is both ways) my mind tends to race to possible outcomes and I start examining every little thing from text messages sent to pictures sent. I just want to be able to enjoy the present no matter the outcome. I struggle a lot in understanding only friendships between a man and woman due to things I went through growing up, and if friendships happens to be all this is I really want to be able to enjoy it without the expectations of something happening. A quote I read recently came to mind and prompted me to write this: "Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you have now was once among the things you only hoped for." -Epictetus

Great quote at the end there; another favourite stoic quote of mine - *Ask not that the events of your life should happen according to your will; instead, ask for your will to be that things should happen as they do.*

Seeking advice to settle my mind and enjoy the present.

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I've just read the Enchiridion. It made me realize that I'm often in social situations where complaining is like a sport. On the whole, these people are good and have many virtuous qualities that I aspire to gain. They are kind, hard working, and not greedy. In short I would never want to cut them out of my life. How do you manage those types of situations?

I'm not sure of the group dynamic or the type of humor they employ. As for the group I work with, I will often paraphrase Seneca when they get to complaining: "You are bitching and complaining yet you fail to notice that the worst thing about the day is your bitching and complaining." You could easily substitute you're for your. They wouldn't notice either way. Seneca Letter #96. Short and sweet.

What is the Stoic advice for conversational complaining?

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Hello everybody, I need some advice, or maybe just guidance perhaps. I have been studying and applying stoicism to my life for several years now. Of course I am not perfect and sometimes I forget about philosophy altogether, but I try. I constantly need reinforcement. I am getting ready to leave for Navy bootcamp in a month and I will be away from my books and my phone for 10 weeks. How can I prevent myself from slipping when I am with other people and away from stoic resources during this time. Thank you in advance.

I did 10 years in the Navy. Don't worry about that, while at boot camp just live day to day. It's not hard at all. Your days are all planned out, you're told when to sleep, when to wake up, when to eat, and you're busy mostly all day. Use the time to disconnect from all the outside shit and just go one day at a time. It goes fast.

Preparing for bootcamp.

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I'm relatively new to stoicism, but it has readily improved many aspects of my life. I've found myself much happier after finally putting a name to many of my actions and applying it to areas that needed it. However... In my job, I am the only one with the background or qualifications to work it. However, I have a co-worker and a team lead who are not qualified and no background. I have no qualm with my team lead, he is a good man and likely stoic himself, but my co-worker is very emotional, often digging at me, my suggestions, shutting me down, etc. I have tried extremely hard to remind myself it's a reflection of them, not me, and that I have no control over their reactions, but it is getting to the point they are actively interfering with my, our, work as a team, and it is getting harder to justify the behavior. I've spoken to my team lead, to no avail, and I'm wondering what stoic advice any can give to assist me better in handling this? Thank you.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance. First understand that it's okay to feel like that, stoicism isn't the practice of rejecting emotion but to manage it. Try speaking to the person about this, you can't control how they feel but you can say your peace of mind "hey your (blank) actions are interfering with my work please try to stop out of sincerity". You may come out as some what rude but Marcus Aurelius was regarded as rude but also a big figure in stoicism. It's out of control of how they fell but not what you can say to them, your mouth is completely in your control. Hope this helps!

Work related issues

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Hi, I've been loosely following stoicism for a couple years now. I feel like I'm at a point where I'd like to delve deeper into the core teachings and become a better man, a better stoic man. I'd like some guidance on where to start in terms of practical stuff I can do. I'd like any and all advice from practicing stoics. What books I can read (I've been reading meditations) I realise I need some rules and structure in my life and I'd like to deepen my understanding as well as my practice of stoicism more. Finally I'd just like to say thank you to this sub as a whole, I've always found great wisdom in here.

Have you read the FAQ?

Becoming a stoic

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Happiness comes as a byproduct of striving for Virtue. I have experienced this in life enough to know that it is true. I have also experienced my lack of Virtue or becoming focused on an outcome going awry and leading to suffering and failure. I strive every day to apply Stoic principles in all that I do. I'm working through how this (it may not) reconciles with the current literature on learning and applying complex physical skills which focus more on outcomes than techniques. If anyone here is familiar: *Motor Control and Learning by Tim Lee et.al. *Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Khaneman ...are a couple of the sources I am referring to. They are required reading in my job and the concepts are being applied in training across multiple disciplines in my organization. I'm mostly trying to identify if any inconsistency or contradiction is present in my (attempts at) Stoicism and my teaching of physical skills. If a student were to perceive one and question me on it I'm not sure that I am prepared to answer. If i recall Musonius Rufus has some advice on getting out of the lecture hall and into the field. I'm going to dig back into that for some potential insights though I've only read Rufus once it didn't really do much for me at the time. He wouldn't approve of my furniture. If anyone has any suggestions on where to look in the Stoic texts for help on this it would be much appreciated.

I have read Thinking Fast and Slow some years ago, and as I recall it was about some activities becoming automated (like how I don't think about the details of how to drive my car because I've been driving for years) but other processes requiring active thinking because I need to pay more attention to the detail To me this aligns very well with Stoicism, in that we read the ancient wisdom and it is new so we need to apply it, but after a while it becomes second nature to consider why something is giving us an emotional reaction and to analyse it and see what the message is. etc etc. It becomes automatic to go into 'what can I do here, and what isn't worth bothering about' mode As for your question about outcomes, as I understand it the Stoic position is not to be directly vested in outcomes. It is the process, making good choices and exercising virtue, that is of more importance. That can be applicable to business, because it allows flexibility of objectives as things change. We live in a fast changing world, and outcomes often have to be tweaked.

Technique vs. Outcome

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Hello Stoic community, I find myself in a predicament and would greatly appreciate your wisdom and insights. As a follower of Stoic philosophy, I am torn between two conflicting desires: the inclination to explore relationships with other women and the desire to remain in a relationship to my current partner, who is an amazing person and has no fault for me feeling this way. Drawing inspiration from the wisdom of ancient philosophers, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what advice they might offer in navigating this situation. How can I apply Stoic principles to find clarity and make the most virtuous decision in this predicament? Thank you in advance for your guidance. I look forward to learning from your perspectives and insights. Additional note: Please be aware that I am a good partner as well and I have not acted on the desires, I understand that these are just desires but I am looking for clarity on this specific type of example.

Stoic principles would say that your desires are bad. Your lust for other women is just the same as the lust for money or reputation that they write so much about, it will never be satisfied and it will corrupt your rational capacity. Relationships are externals and are indifferent. They're not worth pursuing for their own sake. Loyalty, friendship and self control are what you should strive for as a Stoic.

Seeking Stoic Advice: Balancing desire for other women and commitment to a good partner

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I am struggling to stay consistent in learning about a topic I am interested in. The thing is, when I start learning about a new topic, I realise how much of it I don't know and how much I would like to know about it. Issue is that I am a bit of a perfectionist so this gap in my knowledge stresses me out and I end up moving on to a new topic (and the cycle repeats) or I give up entirely and forget all my knowledge due to lack of consistency. What are quotes or just stoic advice that helps you when you catch yourself procrastinating? How do I deal with this?

I am currently working with a procrastination coach. The experience is what got me interested in stoicism. Here is what I've learned: "Reward process and not product." This changed my entire perspective. By focusing solely on your future you make the task harder in the moment and harder to re-start later. While you are performing the task tell yourself "this is hard, I do it of my own free will, and I love this process of learning". This gives your brain a reward in the moment and keeps you in the task. When you punish yourself for everything you don't know you make the experience unenjoyable. It sounds like you reward yourself with the idea that you might someday be an expert at something, which pulls you out of learning to the next fantasy. Just look at the actual great work you are doing, and know you are getting better at learning. The ability to learn transfers to all topics. I'm sure you are great at it, you just need to say it out loud. "I'm learning, and I'm learning to learn!"

How do you avoid procrastination?

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Work in retail and ran into someone from school it really startled me and you could visually see my anxiety, i felt like afraid and wanted to avoid this interaction. i had been thinking about them telling people about my work occupation, that im lesser and I almost had to sell that im a worthy person and my accomplishments. (I am very contempt with my job but I think about how others will interpret it) This interaction left me bothered, any stoic advice to navigate this situation and my thoughts.

If they judge you for your occupation then it's really a reflection of their personality. Your value as a person isn't defined by your title. Whether you are earning 5 figure or 8 figure salary, you matter just as much as the next person. It's usually the people unsatisfied with their own choices or shrouded in the veil of ignorance who form such low opinion of people based on a singular factor such as income or vocation. I hope you are proud of yourself for holding down a job (any job) in this economy and while the questions of status quo plague most of us, let's choose to be grateful for having the opportunity and ability to work.

Anxiety from running into people from school

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Hello people. As of now my hometown is engulfed in an unfortunate events taking place. It's started on 3rd May. All normal life has come to a halt and internet is banned. There is a civil war situation going on. An ethnic clash. Even though I'm in a different state give my college entrance exam I am really worried for my family. No one is safe not even the elites guarded by securities. Insurgents have been coming down and attacking the valley from hills. I am worried for my mum my sister and my grandma my friends. I am worried and going through the exam with an unstable mind is will be a grave situation. How can I overcome this hurdle?

From what you post, you do have a difficult external situation. Of course, practically you want to do what you can for your loved ones. Consider what is wise, what you can actually do for them Then accept (easy said, hard to do), that you have done all that you can. And concentrate on you. They will want you to pass your exams. That is your focus after you have done everything you can for them. If you have been following Stoicism for a while, you will know it is about doing your best and making the best (virtuous) choices that you can in a situation. Learning to allow your mind to concentrate on yourself and what you can do, and learning not to dwell on what is outside of your influence. You **cannot** directly stop these events, you **can** be wise as to any way you can assist these others, then you must live virtuously and be strong to assist in any way you can depending how future events play out

I'm just worried what should I do? any stoic advice?

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As the titles says, but to give some context as I've got a lot I want to ask as I hope maybe I could get some advice and help. So I've been trying to practice stoicism for a while now with varying levels of success, I've practiced journaling and other stoic techniques but after some months I've felt like my stoic practice has collapsed, as I've been suffering from depression, anxiety and thoughts of suicide ( with some attempts of suicide too)for years now and after finally recovering a year ago and being "successful" I've felt like I've come fall circle and have failed or fallen off the path. Im 19 and at college atm but after some setbacks I feel totally lost and in all honesty not wanting to live. I've failed my driving test a third time in a row, feel no progress in my hobbies I have like guitar and music production etc, I feel extremely anxious about failing my exams in college as if I do I might not be able to carry onto the career I want, I feel like I can't cope with adult life as I'm anxious around people, worry I can't do my job that I work at properly and feel like I always make myself look like a fool or just act stupid in general. But the TL:DR is I basically feel like I'm trapped in a rut always trying to escape depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts, I feel like I'm making progress towards my goals only to fail and end up right back at the start again. I don't know what I should do or how I could escape this pain. Anyway I'm sorry for such a long post but despite everything I do feel like I want to escape this and live in some form, I'd appreciate any advice people have here.

Amor Fati is something that comes to mind because it has helped me. Failure and success are measurements of comparison. Eliminate the comparison and you eliminate the measurement. Free yourself from the bonds of expectation and your mind is free to experience being alive. This is hard to do and takes practice. Just accept things that you feel as failures or setbacks as just another thing that happens in life. So what if you failed your driving test. That was yesterday. Today is a new day. Even if it takes you 10 times, 20 times, what does it matter? Are you defined by success and failure? No you are not. You are a human being with value because you are adding good to the world by being you.

Suffering and stuck in a rut

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I'm a 18 years old guy, attending a university from september, so I will have to leave my hometown. I live in a middle class family, I have a brother who is one year younger than me, my parents are together, but the relationship between them and my brother worsens each day, because he is the most ungrateful child in the world and my parents do not know how to be strict. I would like to explain the problems a little bit more: 1. My brother has everything on the world, but it's still not enough for him. My grandmothers gave us a car (which only he uses), my parents give him money for clothings, fuel, even for cigarette, but it's not enough for him so he works in McDonalds on weekends. My mom cooks everyday but he rarely eats his (instead he buys some shit at McDonalds or KFC). His grades are bad in school, so my parents sent him to private teachers in mathematics and english, but he didn't show up at math classes, because he thought it's useless (he will stop going to the english classes soon, because his teacher said it's pointless if he doesn't put in any effort). You would assume that at least he is not an asshole, but on top of all that he talks in the most disrespectful manner with my parents. Even his friends aren't that bad guys, I know some of them. He always had his flaws, but didn't use to be this big trash of a person. He was kinder and had good hobbies, like working out. He got his driving license in March and the situation has been this bad ever since. 2. My parents cannot handle him. I do not want to trashtalk on my parents, because then I would not differ from my brother, but I have to tell the truth to show a clear picture. My father is overweight, has a bad job but earns good money, he dropped out of school (which my brother uses as an excuse for his lack of academic skills), but he is a really kind person and worked really hard to bring up his children and I respect him for that very much (our family didn't use to live in wellfare, my father learned skills by his own, while working in 3 shifts). Unfortunatelly, my brother doesn't see any of this. 3. Finally, my mother. She always thought that the best way of rearing a child is to give him/her love, because she had a lot of troubles in her family (alcoholic father, her mother died early). Because of that, she can't punish her children really (I never was). She also doesn't have the best job in the world. She wants to give us everything and my brother takes advantage of her. It is also terrible to see that they can't team up against him, because they are weak. I also have my fair share. I was a troublesome kid, I have changed (I've been practicing stoicism for 2 years now), but I set a bad example. I think the situation has been like this for a year now. Deep inside, I feel like my inaction contributed very much to this miserable situation. I'm often viewed the smartest in the family, but I wasn't capable to teach anything to my younger brother. Today, my brother wanted to attack my father (only with bare hand), because they had an argument again (it happens much more nowadays). Despite all that, I belive I can do something (stoicism teaches that we can only control actions). Before I make up my mind on anything, I would like to ask for advices from you, dear stoics: How could I improve the my family's state? How can I use stoicism the most efficiently here? What would a stoic do?

These are not directly your issues, and you need to be mindful of personal boundaries here. Stoicism the philosophy (this sub) is primarily about living virtuously yourself, and learning how not to let 'externals' disburb your equanimity. 'Externals' includes your family, and especially the decisions made by other members of your family You have to accept that they do and say the things they do for some reason that seems right to themselves (eg your mother not being strict because of her own childhood legacy). It is not your 'job' to change their views or their actions. Your 'job' in life if you want to practice Stoicism is to live the best life you can as an individual, and you can only do this by understanding human nature and working through the best way to live the human condition. If you want to practice Stoicism you have to immerse yourself in Stoic thoughts and you do that by consuming Stoic resources eg the book links on this page, or recommendations on this sub, even finding great Stoic youtube or podcast content (always capital S Stoic, little s is an unhelpful toxic offshoot) Once you have started your journey, you will become aware that your role in your family is supportive rather than telling people what to do. You cannot fix them, and you really should not give advice unless specifically asked for. You will of course gain ideas of how you want and don't want to live your own life, but be careful even in that - the example of your mother wanting to 'fix' her childhood by parenting in a particular way demonstrates that the best of intentions can have unintended consequences.

How to deal with family problems as a stoic?

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Hello all, I have always appreciate this sub reddit and have read a fair share of stoic books and always try to apply stoicism as much as possible Today early morning. I unfortunately got assaulted on the street by homeless person. Me and my girlfriend were in a rush to get our train and a homeless man asked for some money, when I said "no" he seemed very enraged and started to kick something next to him. We decided to fasten our phase as we needed to get our train and also to get from the homeless man as fast as possible. Suddenly he caught up with us again, asking me why we are not giving him any money, I kindly told him I don't have any cash on me but he wouldn't give up. He started to get real annoying and began to invade my person space and trying to stop me, eventually he was in front of me and wanted to punch me on the chin. Luckily it didn't result to any sort of damage and it was a very soft punch. My girlfriend enraged and started screaming at him which scared him away The moments before the punch a lot was going through my head and I was mostly very nervous and kind of frozen. This has to do with my fear of conflict which I have been struggling with for my whole live, whenever I get in a heated conflict I don't seem to have the balls to give a small push or warn the person to back off. Getting punched today really hurt more my ego then my chin, especially as this happened in-front of my girlfriend who also scared him away as I wasn't taking any action, this also makes me not feel like a man at all. My question is what the best stoic way to overcome this situation? Its the whole day on my mind. Also I want to start dealing with my intense fear of conflict, can someone advice any good stoics teachings / books about this. And besides a mindset Would it be advised to learn any mixed martial arts to help get more confident? Thank you advance!

I'm a Stoic and a 3rd Dan in TaeKwonDo. A few years ago someone grabbed me by the neck and I punched him so hard he had to get plastic surgery to reconstruct his face. It nearly became a legal issue, but since he was clearly the instigator he didn't want to push it. Martial arts absolutely can give you the confidence to handle situations like this, but an important skill I was missing was *moderation*. In the situation you described, it's appropriate to respond with blocks, pushes, or amateur punches, but not with a professionally trained punch that was specifically developed in the Korean military to kill enemy soldiers. That is to say, I'd encourage you to learn a martial art, but before you learn how to hurt someone severely, learn how to avoid these situations or how to hurt them less severely in order to protect yourself. As for Stoicism, it clearly is useful here. Martial arts can protect the body, and Stoicism protects the mind. I understand why you feel embarrassed, but you did nothing wrong and everything turned out okay. To paraphrase Marcus Aurelius badly, you have not been harmed if you do not consider yourself harmed. Be glad the situation went as well as it did, as it could have ended with either you or your girlfriend getting hurt or the homeless guy getting hurt and you getting in legal trouble.

Coping with an assault

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I used to be able to take a lot of pride in the fact that I just worked hard on something or towards something. assignment for school? I'd make sure to get a high mark on it so I could be proud of myself and feel fulfilled. chores at home? I'd make sure to do my due diligence and do the job well and feel proud of myself. I guess one of the biggest motivators I used to have was just feeling proud of myself, but I think that I've recently developed this mindset of "pride is poison." I think generally, pride should not be seen as a good thing, but maybe that applies more to arrogant pride, unlike the pride that I derived some meaning from which was a useful pride. I'm sure the stoics would have thoughts on this and possibly some advice for my relationship with pride going forward, so all advice is welcome :)

Pride is good if it's in a healthy manner. Obviously arrogance is bad, but that's not what you are referring to here. The pride becomes an issue if you, for example, get a test back and did poorly; and your reaction to that would be getting upset. If it doesn't make you upset and you are able to just take that result and learn from it, then that's fine; and of course what you should be doing.

Is This Pride Bad?

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Hi, I am in a predicament and could use some guidance. My roommate, a friend of mine, has been causing some issues due to his rather combative and defensive behaviour. Those who've known him longer say this has always been the case. He often comes across as if he's entitled to everything, including always being in the right. Furthermore, his business partner, another friend of his, is working tirelessly to keep their service business afloat. Yet, my roommate appears to be more interested in watching videos in the middle of the day and running off to do more important things than staying at the business desk, meeting clients. It's as if he believes he has a right to reap the benefits without putting in the same level of effort. Additionally, his attitude towards my closest friend is quite disturbing. She voluntarily helps out with their business for minimal pay out of her goodwill and desire to assist. Yet, he accuses her of being money-motivated, which is far from the truth. In general, his communication lacks empathy; he avoids/denies his issues and feels entitled to change without changing... (Basically, he's the opposite of what I wish to be.) Anyway, I'm concerned for him. Certainly now, as I've learned that he's lost friends in the past due to his behaviour. At the same time, I'm scared to confront him directly, as I fear becoming his next target. Others seem to feel the same, as they tend to avoid him and shy away from honest conversations, foreseeing the potential for heated disputes. Neither his family nor his girlfriend seems able to make him aware of the negative impact of his actions. Because every time they confront him, the discussions are so heated it feels like the world is ending. Now they ask me (his girlfriend and my friends) to confront him because they think I'm calm enough to do that, but I'm a rather sentimental person and live with him. So, I'm turning to this community for advice. How should I handle this situation as someone who subscribes to Stoic principles? How can I make him realize that change is necessary? I appreciate any insights you can offer.

You say you subscribe to Stoic prinicples - so from the outset you know that you cannot change him, and it is unwise to give him 'advice' unless he specifically requests it Time is the teacher here, and his mistakes. He will learn that his actions or non-actions have consequences and to try to save him from them would not only be pointless but counter-productive because he will not learn. Likewise, your friend who helps out voluntarily must find her own way. Sure, have a thought out opinion that you can give if asked, but wait to be asked. You need to be clear about your personal boundaries. Sometimes doing nothing is harder than doing something, but sometimes that is the Wiser course. Maintain your virtue. If you are not sure what to do, then think of how what you do choose might be viewed in hindsight. Others may suggest different Wise and Courageous choices open to you, but my take would be that you prepare what to say if asked, but if not asked then you keep up the friendship so he has someone to turn to when he owns his need. And if keeping up the friendship is too difficult for you, then you work out how to go separate ways.

How to approach a self-centred roommate/friend: need Stoic insights

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I'm not sure what stoic philosophers thought of masturbation, and I'm wondering what they would think of things like porn and such. My highest score in No Fap was 12 days and I can't reach nor get pass it. I need wisdom or some sort of advice. I need to get rid of this illness so I reach true peace.

"I have to stop in order to be better" is a claim, not a fact. You assume that's the case but notice what you're also saying. What are you believing about this action? That it's "bad" in it of itself and doing it makes you worse? Not only do you think it's an illness, you're likely blaming yourself for causing it. You think "peace" is on the other side of this? If you have that expectation then I wouldn't be surprised if the thing actually making you so distraught isn't the action but your guilt. It's not the action, it's the judgment. All the things you likely believe about this action are *opinions* and when those opinions change so will your actions and your peace of mind. If you'd like to change your mind then you have to learn to spot them. Your emotional response are actually your radar to finding your opinions and what things your calling "bad". You have the same goal but you've show that the "weight is too heavy". How about you lower the bar? Instead of aiming to eliminate this habit you've had for years why is going one day at a time not enough? Why is it so surprising that if you've done something 5000 times it's going to take a while before you overwrite it with some other way of being? Just some ideas. Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.

I have to stop in order to be better...

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Hey everyone! Recently I just started doing videos around stoicism and am experimenting with different ideas to grab people's attention. I was just wondering what you guys/girls think about making a series revolving around finding stoic lyrics in popular songs? There's a lot of good ones I thought about such as Frank Sinatra, J. Cole, etc... But was just curious as to how the community views it! Thanks!

Memento Mori by Lamb of God.

Advice: Song w/ Stoic Lyrics

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Hello fellow stoics. I just felt the urge to share my experience with stoicism and how I slowly deviated from it and into a more hedonistic lifestyle. After reading a post abt a guy who would listen to the audiobook version of "The Enchiridion" and how it changed his life. He said, he listened to it like 50 times. And how this has changed the way he dealt with things outside his control. Long story short I did the same thing, listened to the Enchiridion everytime I did my chores or prepared food. And it has in fact impacted me strongly. And then I wanted to expand my knowledge of stoicism, so I've read Seneca's books, Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, Musonius' discourses, and Epictetus' discourses too. The more I read the more captivated I was. And when I finished these works, I suddenly started to have urges to indulge in different things. And it began very slow. I would for example allow myself a day in the week in which I would eat smth pleasurable, and then as time went by, I became more premissive with excuse that I should have a bit of balance, and I started resenting myself for not adhering to the principles I thought I shouldn't transgress. And the more resentful I became the more I indulged myself in food, video games, and I even slowly stopped practicing stoic exercises to the point of reverting back to the unstoic self I was before everything. So I slowly became more affected by things outside my control, and especially people's opinions / my reputation. I became generally weaker as a man, lost control of myself, became basically a slave to fear and pleasure. And now I feel a great need to try again, but I'm very afraid to betray myself again. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks for reading through.

One quote from Marcus comes to mind. "Don't return to philosophy as a task-master, but as patients seek out relief in a treatment of sore eyes, or a dressing for a burn, or from an ointment. Regarding it this way, you'll obey reason without putting it on display and rest easy in its care." Returning to stoicism can be difficult, but it's important to think of it as a relief instead of a task master. It will make your life easier, not more difficult as it seems. Trust that it will help you and it's easier to stick to it. Also remember that the only time that truly matters is the present moment. It doesn't matter how long you've been away, as long as you are stoic in the present moment, you are a stoic sage.

Slowly lost my stoic ways, afraid to fail myself again

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i was a stoic person since childhood, i am not the best displayer of emotions or reactions and everybody would think of me as an apathetic dude but i have emotions, i just do not tend to show them outside. couple weeks ago i learned about my grandfather being incredibly sick that he has a risk of liver cancer. my mom and aunt have been talking about it for a while and i was listening from distance while working on my own things. and yesterday my mom randomly shouted and yelled at me for not asking if something's wrong or what is happening, as if i am not aware of the situation. i kept my cool and said that i know what is happening and i am sad for my grandpa, yet she won't understand. i guess i have to cry or be anxious all the time to be considered being aware of the situation. is there anything i can do with this situation, advice is welcome

I don't think she's necessarily asking you to react. She's most likely indirectly asking for comfort. Remember, it's not just that your grandfather is sick - it's *also* your mother nearly losing her father to cancer. Your feelings and your grandpas sickness are not the only factors at play. Your mother and aunts feelings are as well. She's most likely upset that you haven't reached out to her about it. You haven't asked how she's doing or holding up - so she may feel like you do not care. If you haven't connected with your aunt or mother, or offered to see your grandfather, they may see the distance as apathy. It's not so much that you're not emoting enough. It's that you're not emotionally connecting with them during a time where they are emotionally vunerable. Your mother will eventually lose her father. Not now, but eventually. And that is a scary prospect. She's looking to you for comfort.

my mom blamed me because i didn't show any emotion at all after learning about my grandfather's illness.

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For the past few weeks (because our friend group spent time with another friend group) I've met a girl and got to know her. We hit off pretty well, we have the same interest and we also (ironically) had a talk about philosophy and the purpose of life and so on. In those past weeks until now, I noticed that I started to develop feelings for her. And with that excitement of having a crush, there is also that fear of rejection and the possibility of it not working out. So the past few days I've had these mood swings between being excited and feeling bad (depending on if I thought whether It's going to work out or not). What bothers me about the situation is that I don't like the vulnerability that comes with it. Because when you have a crush, you are making yourself very vulnerable to their actions and responses. But I have accepted the fact that I cannot control those and that I have to be vulnerable in order to find out if a romantic relationship is gonna work out. I also know that it is normal to want a romantic relationship. Also, I notice how I am ignorant when it comes to the possibility that it won't work out. I think I have the right thoughts, and I am thinking in the right direction, and that I have the puzzle pieces. I just haven't figured out yet how to put them together in a rational/Stoic way. I am seeking for advice not to feel better, but to learn for the future. Since this is a Situation with a lot of emotions and this is a big opportunity to learn on how to be more Stoic. Thanks in advance to everyone who read this and might help me view things from another perspective. I hope you all have a nice day!

The lesson that took me a long time to learn was that it was better to get thing out in the open with stuff like this. The mental suffering we cause ourselves in not facing the possibilty of rejection is worse than the rejection itself. If she does reject you it is good in a sense as it frees you from chewing yourself up and allows you to move on healthily.

Is there a Stoic way to deal with a crush

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I (20m) have recently been introduced to Stoicism by my father. I just finished reading "The Daily Stoic" and would just like to hear some thoughts, opinions and tips. For background I have not been in a very good headspace mentally for the last 5 years. I feel as though my life is not good enough and I feel as if the expectations I set upon myself are too high and unrealistic. I was a valedictorian in high school and my education and intelligence has always been something I have highly valued however in my first semester in university I failed a class, went to retake it and failed again which had made me harshly question my intelligence and started quite a bad spiral for myself. I had stopped going to the gym daily, stopped eating *as healthy, and watched many relationships I had in my life crumble. I have a very loving girlfriend however I am at a point where i can only see her flaws, as well as issues such as our sex drives being complete opposites, ideals and future visions are also very different. I feel as though I am too driven by money, lust, desire and just overall wanting more out of my life and wanting my life to be successful as my parents (both doctors with multiple degrees and 3 PhDs between them). I also struggle greatly with commitment and confidence to things, I tend to quit when certain things become hard and I cannot find a solution. I know what I want to do with my life and after reading that book I have realized that to get to where I want to be in my life I need to follow Stoicism, so i guess my question is this; how does one use stoicism to get over certain issues, mainly confidence, greed, lust, and overall just becoming a better human for myself. I see lots of users on here who are very knowledgeable when it comes to advice and as I had no one else to really talk to about this I figured I would ask on here. Thank you all for reading

Remember that you must behave as at a banquet. Is anything brought round to you? Put out your hand, and take a moderate share. Does it pass you? Do not stop it. Is it not come yet? Do not yearn in desire towards it, but wait till it reaches you. So with regard to children , wife, office, riches; and you will some time or other be worthy to feast with the gods. And if you do not so much as take the things which are set before you, but are able even to forego them, then you will not only be worthy to feast with the gods, but to rule with them also. For, by thus doing, Diogenes and Heraclitus, and others like them, deservedly became divine, and were so recognized.

I have recently been introduced to Stoicism and would like some help/tips

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Long story short: my brother and his wife have been separated for a few years now. But they have a (five year old) son together whom I love more than anything on earth. But my brother, at the moment, is not very financially secure. Between having to take care of his son and paying child support to his wife, as well as taking care of a dog, he's not doing very well. And him and my dad also do not get along and they came to blows last thanksgiving getting into a proper fight. My heart aches for him, and the main reason is because I can't control the situation. I've tried coming to terms with the stoic idea that it's all outside my control but that hasn't helped much. Neither has engaging in negative visualization and thinking about the worst possible thing that could happen (my SIL gets full custody of their son and possibly takes him back to her home country while my brother is all alone, leading to him possibly killing himself). I'm just at a loss on what to do at this point and am hoping someone here can provide guidance. Or if it is outside the purview of this sub, let me know.

>I've tried coming to terms with the stoic idea that it's all outside my control but that hasn't helped much. It's not an idea. It's a fact. After which you get to choose whether to agonize over things you can't control (e.g. the future and other people) or focus on doing what you can as best you can. If you can help your brother, do that. Encourage him verbally, show him you care and let him work to improve his own situation. Help him financially if you can (unfortunately, you may discover that money weakens the bonds of love). You should remember none of these things were forced upon him, from marriage and his son, down to the dog. He picked up these responsibilities. He chose to fight your father. He is a grown man that you are not responsible for. Only he is.

Stoic advice for dealing with my brother and his current familial and financial situation?

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TLDR: How do you know when you've truly done enough as a stoic as opposed to a lack of dicipline and allowing the mental elephant to take control and surpass the riders commands? Howdy folks, I'm a 28M and I've been doing well in my stoic practices for a minute now. That being said I've ran into a new challenge. While I have a desire to do more and add things to my list, especially with exercise and chores around my home - I have been absolutely exhausted. Like tired/sleepy. It has been very frustrating as I've got the desire and drive to do more and I have plans to achieve a great deal when I get home after work. But once I'm home, its basically bed time for me. I fast the whole day until dinner time, and I have a typically physically demanding job that I do for about 10-12 hours five days a week. People in my life are telling me I have too high of a bar, and that I have every right to be tired when I get home. I can't help but to think about Marcus Aurelius and his rather detailed take on sleeping in in the morning time. He says to himself "But we also need to rest." - "True, but you have had your fill." Paraphrasing. But that sits with me often. I am unsure if I'm being lazy or if I have genuinely done enough in the day. Am I setting up too much? Am I falling short of what I am actually capable of and sucumbing to my own lack of discipline? Or am I truly and genuinely at my peak and I can and should rest and sleep? I've always struggled with relaxing and rest so I'd love to hear more input from you guys. Thanks!

From a practical standpoint you might find that you get more done by stressing yourself less. > "True, but you have had your fill." You quite literally *haven't* had your fill if you're not eating at all during the day, while working a physically demanding job The more interesting bit from a Stoic angle... > I have a desire to do more and add things to my list [...] I've got the desire and drive to do more and I have plans to achieve a great deal [...] I am unsure if I'm being lazy or if I have genuinely done enough in the day [...] I've always struggled with relaxing and rest [...] How do you know when you've truly done enough Where is this all coming from? This seemingly impossibly high bar of "doing enough" and having had a long standing theme of driving yourself too hard without resting and relaxing. The feeling like you need to "achieve a great deal" sounds like you're deriving a sense of goodness from external things, which wouldn't be the Stoic way. How long have you held this inner narrative that you need to do more, as opposed to doing well? What value judgements have you placed along the way? What are you judging to be "bad" about "not doing enough"?

Exhausted lately & struggling to balance rest - LF stoic advice

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So I recently came back from USA, where I had a decent enough job and lifestyle, to India (Home country). Its been around 4months and I haven't yet got a job and this is making me feel anxious about my future. Even if I have basic necessities taken care off I still feel I might fail in the future or would not make it in the job market. I am working towards few courses to improve my skill set but the overall response towards any job applications are low. My predictment is that even if I get a job today would I be happy in the future or would be still be anxious about something else which lies ahead of me? I am looking for any stoic advice or any success stories of people who overcame this.

You need to understand the dynamics of landing a job in these two countries are different. USA may work with only applications, but India also needs referrals. Learn the dynamics. In the meantime, understand that being anxious won't change the situation, only make you feel worse. What you give is what you get. Give out Positivity.

Feeling Anxious about future

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I have a gambling addiction. It's hard to overcome. For those that have read meditations, did it mention anything about how a stoic would pursue gambling addiction? I'm not even sure if this was around in their time. Unfortunately the whole "let it be it is what it is" isn't really helping. Thanks!

Yeah. The house *always* wins.

Any stoic advice for gambling addiction?

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Context: I'm a 22 y/o brown male and 166cm (barely 5'6). It's probably confirmation bias but now all I can hear is people comparing heights and things like how "x actor can't play a powerful role because he's only 5'6" etc. I work in Canada where I'm often the shortest male in the room. Height has repeatedly been emphasized to me as the most important physical trait in a male for any sort of influence, dominance, or even respect. That's where it gets dark for me. I work a relatively prestigious job and this insecurity not only fuels my impostor syndrome, but it also wastes countless hours I can use virtuously. I often feel incomplete. What I've tried: Coping - I've worked out, developed social skills (and dressing sense), and earn a top percentile income. I've also added the illusion of a few extra inches by working on my V taper, adding volume to my hair, emphasizing my posture and opting for heavier shoes where possible. But these things only make me feel worse when my small height gets pointed out cause I feel like an incomplete fraud. I don't particularly like taller women and will definitely not mind a very short girl. I also realize that any girl shorter than me by 3 inches wanting a 6ft guy is only status chasing and not wifey. It still feels really bad to feel incomplete and undesirable and that I have to compensate for a blaring weakness of mine (which is a fact). Meditation - A lot of this is tied to egoic thinking which I've tried to dissuade with meditation. Not helped. Stoic ideas - Dichotomy of control (it's the same game for everyone: no one can coast on their externals and the ones that optimize the things in their control will outperform), Amor fati (enjoy the underdog story arc), negative vizualizations (I realize my height could have been a lot worse). But these don't stop the piercing pain when a comment is passed disqualifying / excluding me. I feel like I can never be a respectable figure. Why I want to improve: I feel like an asshole for worrying about this when it's my only real problem in life right now. I waste so much energy, esteem, and time on this. I realize that any sort of advice would probably boil down to some version of what I've already tried. There's probably no easier way than to fight the demons with these tools. But if something particularly helped you, I'd appreciate the insight.

People who care about height will talk about height. People who don't care about height will not be involved in those conversations. My own experience of being 5'7" suggests that it's genuinely not that important to most people.

My height insecurity is only getting worse

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