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Hello everyone, I seek for your Stoic advice. Recently I decided to cut connection with my abusive father and I wonder what the Stocisim have to say about it. See abuse in the sense of Stocisim does not exists. I choose to see my father actions as abusive but I can stop seeing it like this. I really like Epictetus and in chapter 30 he says this: Duties are universally measured by relations. Is a man a father? The precept is to take care of him, to yield to him in all things, to submit when he is reproachful, when he inflicts blows. But suppose that he is a bad father. Were you then by nature made akin to a good father? No; but to a father. Does a brother wrong you? Maintain then your own position towards him, and do not examine what he is doing, but what you must do that your will shall be conformable to nature. For another will not damage you, unless you choose: but you will be damaged then when you shall think that you are damaged. In this way then you will discover your duty from the relation of a neighbour, from that of a citizen, from that of a general, if you are accustomed to contemplate the relations I really struggle to get the idea that Stocisim tells you to keep connections with people that hurts you. What is your opinion from stocisim POV? Thanks.

Therapy > Philosophy in this situation. I learned long ago they *anything* can be weaponized... Even the most perfect pearls of wisdom can be leveraged to rationalize denial, cruelty, narcissism, etc. "Abusive" might be in the eyes of the beholder, but the question becomes more about that "beholder" and whether or not they are able to care for themselves and reject toxicity.

Cutting connection with abusive father

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I apologize in advance for the vulgarity. For a year I have been studying Stoicism. On most days when the weather seems fine and I am at ease, it becomes an easy topic to get into. Something you think to yourself, "Yes, I'm not gonna let these externals control me. I can do this." But so often, we get hit by a horrific tragedy. Our reactions can get all over the place. It becomes hard to reflect. It becomes much harder to think straight and be the rational human we thought we already are. We would then realize that we are not so in control of ourselves as we thought. It is a very humbling experience. An experience that I am actually currently going through. I am currently in a very bad situation. My account had recently gotten hacked due to a mistake that I did and now the hacker/s are threatening to release crude pictures of myself to my friends and family. I had taken the necessary measures to block, restrict, report, and notify but recently, the hacker had sent me another threat, saying that they were going to send my pictures to the people in my entire class. I was a wreck. The whole situation had given me so much psychological and mental turmoil over the past few days that I could not focus on studying (it is currently my finals season) and I had forgotten to take care of myself (no more sleeping, showering and eating). Now, I have decided to report to the authorities but this may take days (There is another long story as to why I had to wait). During this, I realized how hard it was to be Stoic and to be rational when you are the one in the ditch. The amount of strength that you need was something I never saw in myself. It takes so much courage to face the music and admit your faults. It takes so much courage to brave into the uncertainty of the next hour, next minute, next second even. It takes so much courage to understand that this is out of my control now and the hacker/s are free to do whatever with the pictures they have acquired. I kept thinking to myself that this is just a body and everyone has one (setting it apart for what it really is), but the guilt emanating from the fear of what other people (not just anyone, but my own friends and family) could see and think has an unimaginably strong hold in my mind. It's just so, *so hard*. It's so hard to be strong.

I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds like you are in a difficult situation. I think you made a good choice by notifying the authorities. As far as Stoicism goes, just remember what is within your locus of control. Acknowledge your mistakes and learn from them. We're all just humans. I wish you well.

It is often in our hardest times that best describe how Stoic we are.

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I am as stoic as any one of you guys, but there is nothing stoicism can do to help me right now, in situations like these where it normally operates the most. I have my own movie premiere next week! Just now I got a haircut to fix the haircut I already got, that only made it worse. I look like a scruff. I hate it. Oh well, something to tell the grandkids. Not like it's a leg or something, it's only hair, it'll grow back. I just loved how it looked before but it needed a slight bit of work, but it's now fucked up. I don't even hold my hair in this much regard, I'm not a person who generally holds this much care for his looks. Normally it's situations like these where I take a deep breath and say what can you do. I'm finding it difficult right now. Any advice?

Shave your head. Did it last time I got a terrible haircut, and it's incredibly liberating, and also rather convenient. Your hair is not you. It's a pretty powerful move and taught me I'd have no issues with doing it again in the future if needs be.

Bad haircut stoicism

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I read meditations. Then I read discourses. Then I got about halfway though meditations, again. I stopped reading it when I had falling outs with my family, both immediate and further out. I've come to the conclusion that, while i definitely have my problems, everyone i talk to is a hypocrite driven by either narcissism or just general closed mindedness or both. I snapped one day in protest to perceived disrespect that I deal with on a consistent basis. I don't think its just perceived, its just so normal that it's expected to not be noticeable or something. I am not financially independent. The history there is mostly psychological abuse during childhood, being homeschooled in a neglectful and abusive environment that taught me nothing about life, although i taught myself to teach myself because at least i had an online curriculum to get me started and i built on it from there. So academically (not in reference to ancient philsophy) i am pretty educated, self educated mostly, but life skills didn't really start to become tacit until a few years on and off of homelessness and severe substance abuse and addiction, not to mention the psychological turmoil that preceded those long term events as well as were exacerbated by those long term events (homeless junkie time(s)). I've dealt with bullying, by certain people i thought were friends, by certain people that would generally be considered family, etc. I don't even have a vehicle because I granted my mother financial control over my destiny, on a psychological level, she has trained me via manipulation through fear, obligation, combining gaslighting and morality to which she suceeded in leading me to the conclusion that i am unworthy of spending my money that I earn on the future I want. This puts her in a beautiful position of power where if i don't jump tthrough her hoops and smile about it, the tumble is pretty steep via eviction or at leadt the constant threatening thereof. Step father has done more simple things like just putting me down and lying about the things he even says. This might be the wrong thread, this has a lot to do with psychological abuse. I'm also not in jail for assaulting my abusers, part of me regrets this fact, as even some of the things i read in discourses mentioned that if the proper handling of situations ends in calamity, even prison, then it might still be proper. It is obvious to me i will never get justice unless i am willing to go to prison. I spend a lot of the time looking at my past history, much of it i am quite upset with myself for, as i have made many bad decisions, not all of them hurting myself. Lately I'm literally walking around in circles, looking for work, mental issues are quite real and making it difficult, and i have reasonable objections toward medications that most people would not even think twice about in a culture where pill popping has been used to attempt to fix people since before they even hit puberty. Now a ton of people are mentally ill, go figure i wonder if there's a correlation. The hypocrisy that one may object to since i've already spent a good amount of time being a junkie and further corrupting my neural circuitry. I spend almost every waking moment, or if i'm being realistic and less dramatic at least half the time either reflecting on past failures, blunders, mistakes, etc or imagining negative things about the future. It's pathological. I make for a horribly practicing stoic. Even though i think i'm implementing some amount of what i've read. About 7 or 8 months ago it seemed like I had finally found the answer to a lot of life's questions when i started to take stoicism seriously, and now it strikes me a bit as a feeling of losing my religion even though i'm fairly convinced a lot of what stoicism offers is closer to the truth than a lot of things. Maybe even most of it. Although there are obviously certain aspects that strike me as having more to do with contemporary culture some 2000 years ago, a lot of which I don't fully understand. I've been dealing with so much stress, i will consider the possibility of it being self induced (at the very least it is consequentially self induced through prior choices if i'm not actually *choosing* the anger now), and on that hormonal/metabolic/neurological level it's doing wonders. Today, this morning, after waking up at around 2:30 in the morning and not knowing what to do but think while staring at a darkened ceiling until around 7:30, i punched my bed a few times. Then i did it again around 5 minutes later, desperately trying to remove a feeling i generally try to meditate away, with some degree of success. Punching my bed is not something i make a habit of, although the last time i did something similar was something like 2.5 months ago, and the time before that i can't remember exactly but i think a much longer stretch of time. I was definitely one of those kids that put holes in walls, and had energy drink addictions to for that matter. At this point though, i know i have cPTSD it's undiagnosed but this is more than my simple PTSD diagnosis, and it's theoretically impossible I do not have a TBI. Which might explain the anger. Not to mention the, you know, drug usage, and growing up on the doctor's personal crack stash as well, facetiously speaking of course. I have to consider the possibility that the anger may actually be a symptom of a medical condition. Or maybe the ruminating. They say nightmares are a big part of PTSD. I'm digressing. I read about psychology a lot too. So yeah this rant might subconsciously be more along the lines of "motivate me to give enough of a shit about myself to make better decisions and maybe give me some actual advice too". I realize the unstoic implications of much of what i've written. I take the idea seriously enough that the concepts bounce in and out of my apparently malfunctioning mind.

Do you have access to decent therapist rn? Not CBT... genuinely asking as I know psychotherapy is a privilege and getting a decent therapist nothing short of a miracle

I'n not sure how to classify a topic for this post, but maybe uncontrolled anger.

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I've been a lurker here for years, but I don't often come seeking advice... this is one of those rare occasions. I've been reflecting a lot on my life lately since everything was turned upside-down for me a little over a year ago, and it has occurred to me that, while I can be very forgiving of others sometimes, I am typically very hard on myself. Sometimes it is for no reason, but more often than not it is for screwing something up that I honestly should not have... Like, a situation where I knew better and still made the wrong decision for some unknown reason. Is there some advice from the Stoics that addresses these issues? I desire to be more self-confident, but I keep getting in my own way when I feel like an idiot and beat myself up for days/weeks/months after making a mistake that should have been easy to avoid. Why is it so hard for me to simply let these things go?

Well I'd point out that claim "I knew better" because it has no supporting evidence. Would you say someone knew what 2+2 was if they shouted 5? In reality if you did actually know it would have shown in your choice. You may have been presented with the thought "I ought to do something else" but you dismissed it because at the time you valued the choice you made more, for whatever reason. Often times we use the information we learned from the experience to judge our actions about the experience, information we didn't have at the time. If you had the same information you have now and wouldn't have made the same choice then it's undeniable you learned something new. It's the same pride that a child has when they're shown the right answer and they say "I knew that". In honesty we can't let them go because our beliefs about them are fundamentally flawed and they present dangers for us in the present. "If I know better and still make the wrong choice what does that mean for me now"! In correcting that judgment we can find calm. I'd also note if a part of you thinks you can heal then that peace of mind is already present within you because you can imagine that clarity to be true in this very moment. It's not something to attain, it's already there. Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.

Forgiving myself for mistakes I should not have made.

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I've been a stoic for a while, but one thing that has always bugged me is how to remove these ruminating and intrusive thoughts. I realize I'm focusing on things outside of my control when I let these thoughts take over, but my brain somehow tricks me into thinking if I ignore it then I won't learn from it, then I'll pay for it. These thoughts can be pretty bothersome, some even so loud that I consider suicide. It's really affecting my day to day life and it's hard to do anything without tearing myself up over it. Sometimes acknowledging how short life is soothes me for a time, but it always comes back. It's like a dull stabbing pain that you get used to after awhile, but I've been dealing with these thoughts on and off for at least 3 years. Any advice on how to end this once and for all and take control of my brain?

Don't silence but learn to observe.

How to silence intrusive thoughts?

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what are your thoughts on bad-mouthing people behind their backs? I am pretty new to stoicism and I know from the stoic standpoint it is not right to bad-mouth people. So there's this dude I've been helping out. I've been helping him financially and being there for him when he's down and out. But every time I bring up the topic of him paying me back, he totally disappears and dodges me. this person does that to everyone and when my friends were talking bad about him I couldn't help but bring up my own bad experience of him. Do you guys have any advice?

Did you help him with the expectation that he would reciprocate or pay you back? Lesson learned there Understand that people always have a reason for what they do and say, he may have been sponging off you or he may simply not be coping. If you are following Stoic practices, you will be generous in your assessment of him, and wise in your future choices.

thoughts on gossiping and bad-mouthing people

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I no longer want to be a husband material. In modern day, being a husband material is degrading, and personally, I also think bad boys do great, in life and also with girls.

>degrading In Stoic thought, it's impossible to be degraded by anything other than your own unvirtuous actions. Nothing outside of you can be degrading, so being a kind and virtuous man certainly won't be. Have you read any Stoic literature?

Need a stoic advice.

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I'm seeking advice. I think I can manage when things go wrong, more or less, and I can manage when things don't go my way. External events should not dictate my emotions after all. But I'm struggling to manage my emotions when the unfairness of the world comes from my own parents. When I'm expected more than my siblings, yet I'm given less. When I have to pick my own birthday gift, but since they are busy, also spend time buying, thinking and finding a gift for my siblings. I'm an adult now and this should not bother me, but I put so much effort and I'm taken for granted. It has been like that all my life. I feel like the son that stayed in the prodigal son, they are being celebrated, yet I'm being the one caring/working/staying behind. And this creates a version of me that I don't like, that is not good and that I struggle to control. How would a true stoic face this? Why is it so difficult? Am I being childish?

Talk to them. See what they think.

When the unfairness comes from your parents

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last feb i had breakup with my ex gf.. it was a 9 months relationship and she was my first love.. it was a cute ship but we had our ups and downs ..i didn't want to breakup but she told me that she was afraid that things woudn't work in the future and we end up hurting each other .. it ended up on a good terms but inside i didn't really accept it but i can't force it either .. she offered to stay friends because we both didn't want to lose eachother forever but i refused in that time, because i coudn't see her as a friend anymore honestly.. and she repected that.. we didn't talk for the past 3 months until yeasterday .. one of our mutual friends suggusted that we should talk and find a soulation so we don't end things forever like that.. so we talked a little and she still belive that we can be friends again and prefer to not lose me eveantually .. a part of me still refuse the idea because i still have feelings that woudn't go easily.. the other part don't really want to lose someone who loved and treated him well in the past and had a good memories with.. im honestly lost between both of them and i need some powerful wisdom

You can't "lose" someone that was never "yours" to begin with. And feelings are just that: feelings. They will come and go in time, but they are not the thing that controls you and your actions.

Breakup advice from stoic perspective

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As just above, I recently found out about stoicism after feeling depressed and burnt out from working as a physician in training. I work usually 60-70 hours a week with 1 day off and constantly on night shift, which has burnt me out. I found out about stoicism and it has helped me a lot in calming me down to deal with most of the time. However, recently, I started to work even more and right now I feel that I am about burn out when dealing with all the issues from my patients, attendings, co wokers, research projects, and bunch of presentations. I was also expected to read more to improve my knowledge on top of daily work. I really try to focus on the current moment as stoicism but still really feel stressful eith all the work now. I would love to hear any advice about stoic ways to deal with all the work that required.

My favorite phrase to come from Epictetus: Sustine et abstine. Bear and forbear. Bear in mind why you're going through all of this work right now. If your goal is to be a doctor, is what you're experiencing now worth it? Bear the hardship. You want to be a doctor - it goes without being said that it's an incredibly difficult, tiring, and stressful job. Be honest with yourself: if this is too much for you now, will you be able to handle it later? Forbear your desire to slack off, to take shortcuts, to pity yourself, to lament how busy and tired you are. None of this is useful to you or your patients.

Stoicism advices for resident doctor

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My wife lied a lot when we both met, she would make up stories, gave me a different age, say things to impress me or sound more mature. I found out a year in, then spent another two years finding out more and more, she never came clean and I would always find out the hard way. The problem is, all these stories and lies were in the past, before we met, there was a few things whilst we was together but they was nothing. But they stress me out to no end worrying if there is more or if I'm being an idiot. It's been 10 years, no more lies cropped up since the last one. She insists that was everything, but it all still bothers me. I'm paranoid and anxious, I worry about what else could be hidden or if there is more. Its not worth breaking up over as our lives are great together, so I need to handle these intrusive thoughts, how could stoicism help me forgive and move forward when these irrational fears appear? (Also please no relationship advice, I just want to understand how a stoic person gets over betrayal and paranoia)

"It's been 10 years....." Get over it, or get help, because at this point if you can't resolve these issues within yourself then you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting her too.

How do I get over the past?

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I have been reading a lot or stoicism, but I tend to fall back into old habits a lot. I really need advice on one topic, that has been controlling my life for a long time. To understand it, i need to describe my backstory a little bit. So, I was bullied in school. I was the really quiet girl all my life and I was always told by my family to stand up to myself and to not let them control me. I was even told to use anger and force to stop bullies. But my family was not a great example. My mother would be angry about small things and break off contact often times with people. I too, started doing this in school. It was self-protection and I did not know better, when I was 13. Now that I am older and working, I tend to stand up for myself. Meaning that I do that, when people try to overlook me or when they underestimate me, or talk down on me. It has always been this way for me. That people just tend to ignore my presence. And I think that this is because I am a quiet person. But then they also tend to test my boundaries. And i actually like to be quiet. I like be calm. I like to not fight. Every time I get overlooked now, I get really really angry. I tend to explode. And I really don't know how to handle this the stoic way. Any advice?

To be honest, what you are describing does not sound like Stoicism the philosophy to me Stoicism the philosophy (this sub) will help you to identify personal boundaries, and will teach you that the only person you can rely upon is yourself. You control your own thoughts, actions etc and what other people do or say is external and you should largely learn not to be affected by it unless there is some genuine feedback you can consider and learn from Stoicism also teaches that anger is never a helpful emotion. It is so much better to respond to events in a considered and reasoned way. Can you work out how you want to treat these people in advance, and hold a private debrief after an event that upsets you, so that you are better prepared for the next time a similar situation occurs? Seems to me that you are unduly affected by other people, and that a reading of the Stoic book Discourses could be really helpful to you. There are links on this page to a free version or you can purchase a modern version. My favourite modern version is called The Art of Living by Sharon Lebell.

Setting boundaries

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To start this I'd like to mention I am a stoic that has practiced the philosophy for a few years. With that being said, it's never a bad idea to ask for help from others. It seems for the past few years I've been dulled, activities usually end up with me being overly intoxicated, simply because if I don't blackout, I may realize how much of a bore this all really is to me, and if I let that happen I'm bound to spiral further into overthinking. Other then that I've been in a state of disillusionment (imagine being in a existential crisis but throughout everyday) I can't stop over-analyzing why I'm even doing what I'm doing, what is it's purpose? What's my purpose? If this is life, god must have no imagination, and humans must be fools for painting their eyes blue to block out the grey sky. I practice most stoic ideas, the self control one's are easy because I don't feel any satisfaction in anything anyways, being a good member of the community is also easy because nothing much matters to me, but I still feel dissatisfied, disappointed, diminished. I guess that's to be expected. The happiest I am is when I'm asleep Sometimes I dream that death is eternal sleep, I know stoics have talked about suicide being possible if you cannot live Virtuously. I know death doesn't matter so why should it be so taboo? Any advice is welcome advice Though I can't claim it will help me it might soothe my aching mind.

I just enjoy being alive. Just witnessing a fraction of time in the existence. No deeper meaning, just wonder.

Cold, Alone and Alive

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Hi there. I'm currently doing a PhD and I have almost finished my first year. I start my exams tomorrow but unfortunately I have struggled all year with a complete lack of motivation. It might be too late to be asking for advice seeing as I needed the motivation throughout the year and I'm not sure if I will make it through the exams in order to progress to the next stage of the course (the actual research stage). Seeing as it might be too late, I was about to not ask for advice, but I thought maybe the advice will be useful in life going forward, regardless of how the exams go. I think I was unmotivated because although the exams are in the same field (economics) they are not related to my research. It just feels like an unnecessary hurdle I have to overcome. The coursework is difficult of course, but I don't think it's anything I am unable to do. But every single task felt like moving a mountain. Can anyone give me some wise stoic words for dealing with this? Motivation seems to be out of my control, and without motivation, doing the smallest tasks feel almost impossible.

Why don't you ask for feedback from your supervisor? Or explore if you have to do exactly what is in your PhD description, is there any wriggle room to change it a bit? You could also take some time off. Both my daughter and her partner are doing PhDs (one in BioMed, the other in some sort of drone programming/ engineering) and they are both taking a few months off to travel later this year. So it obviously is possible in some subjects. The other suggestion I would have is to explore job opportunities. Just because you are doing a PhD doesn't mean you have to continue it, it will already look good on your resume. Can you get more into teaching? (I'm assuming there is a teaching element of your research?) You may find Stoicism the philosophy (this sub) is helpful. Explore the links on this page, or the threads on this sub.

I have almost finished the first year of my PhD, but I'm really struggling.

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Hi all, I'm new to stoicism (and this sub reddit so i'm sorry if i've chosen the wrong flair) I've been reading Donald Robertson's How To Think Like a Roman Emperor and came across the idea of 'Eudamonia'. I was hoping to share my understanding of it and get some advice on whether I am thinking in the right direction or if there is another perspective I should be considering. The section I read describes Eudamonia as the 'Stoic joy' that results from living a fulfilling and meaningful life. I related this idea to my own understanding of 'purpose' and how we feel fulfilled when we are working towards our purpose in life. In the book, it also says that this Eudamonia is a byproduct of wisdom (I would think it's the byproduct of living virtuously as a whole too). In this way, is it fair to understand that our purpose in life IS to live virtuously? Because it seems that living a fulfilling life is a result of working towards your purpose but, in stoicism, of living virtuously. Appreciate the help!

>our purpose is live is to live virtuously Yes, this is my understanding. Eudaimonia/contentment/the good life come as a result of living according to virtue. I'll just mention here that Stoic virtue is practical wisdom, and doesn't mean virtue in the sense that religions use the term.

Eudamonia & 'purpose' as a byproduct of living virtuously

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Currently, I am new to stoicism and have many thoughts I wish to share to other people and ideas. But this low self confidence in myself has made me refrain from sharing the many thoughts and ideas that I have, not only those relating to stoicism. Sometimes I overthink about something that I want to share, even as I make this post I overthink. So is there any Stoic Advice that the community can give to overcome this problem? Any would be greatly appreciated!

Just do it. Maybe you will be hailed as a genius. Maybe you will get critical comments and seen as a fool. Who knows? (Who cares?) Just do it, and feel and digest the experience. You can actively stay out of your head to be with the experience of sharing.

I have many thoughts and ideas I want to share, but I have low self confidence.

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I'm a 16yo male in hs pretty big guy, 210 lb powerlifter. I need advice on how to react to people being "passive aggressive" at school. I'm a pretty stoic person when it comes to people making jokes about me and other stuff but there's a lot of people at school, even my friends who do things to me like try to pinch my nipples(because I have a very muscular chest)or do something weird like that that I don't like. Whenever people do thing like this to me a take a pretty stoic approach and kind of ignore them but lately it's been getting on my nerves and I don't know how to make people stop.

For words, I'm reminded of a quote from Epictetus. He had recently been heavily criticised by another famous philosopher and his reply was: "If he truly knew my faults, he would not have listed only those". Self-depreciating humour can be a good way to deflect criticisms and to make it clear you don't care what they say. As for physical stuff, you absolutely have a right to defend your body from unwanted touch using proportionate force. Clearly tell them to stop and if they don't, deflect or restrain their arm.

Need some advice

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My partner often experiences and expresses stress about a great many things. She is quite sensitive about her bodily feelings and also quite preferential about things like timing and tone of voice and volume and many other things. I understand that I cannot control these things, and she also cannot control what stimuli are most apparent to her nor how they immediately affect in any given moment. But I often feel that she stresses over things that are not necessary to stress about, nor reasonable to stress about. I am watching her dog for her at her home this week, which is going well, I believe. A package from her mother was being delivered nearby while she is out of state and she wanted me to go pick it up, but it was not at the usual place we get mail. When I told her about this, she told me that that stresses her out, because she's afraid someone may have stolen it or that it wasn't there somehow. I asked her to consider the fact that we don't know if it was there or not yet. And that maybe I'll go to the other likely location of it and find it there and all the worry about it would be for nothing. But that seemed to be anathema to her because she insisted that her worry is warranted. She also expressed that because she had no control over this that that only stressed her out more, though I did not try to point out how that seems irrational to worry about things outside of your control. (I did end up getting the package anyways) Perhaps I'm wrong about these arguments, but they seem true to me. I don't feel like she needs to even agree with them, but I dislike the feeling I have when she doesn't even entertain my suggestions. But that's my problem, not hers. What I'm asking for advice on is how to handle being with someone who stresses out so much and doesn't seem to have a means of avoiding the stress or mitigating it? Part of me feels like I should not be with her if she will stress herself out and not accept help. I very much dislike her being stressed out, and a bit of my Stoic learning says that I am mistaken to let another's worries bother me so much. But another part of me feels like I would not be a good partner or friend if I'm abandoning her to her struggles. And that sympatheia is all about feeling the struggles of my fellow human being and commiserating. What do you think? Do you have suggestions for how I can handle her stress more? Am I making a mistake somehow? Thank you for reading. I hope that you are all doing well.

Commiseration, taken literally, isn't a part of Stoicism. *Enchiridion* 16 and a commentary may be helpful, as may some of the resources in the "sex and relationships" section of the Frequently Discussed Topics page

How much should we care for our partner's stress?

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I've really been noticing recently how much time and energy my girlfriend has been spending on being bothered by other people, which means, as a result, a lot of our "conversation" is her venting about these people. For example, she was telling me about her parents friends, and how many problems they have. The husband is ignorant of racism (despite his wife being Hispanic, and my girlfriends dad being Hispanic), how the wife is an alcoholic and pops pills the husband prescribes to her, how both the husband and wife treat my girlfriend and her brother as kids despite them both being in their 20s. She told me about the argument her brother and the husband got into over fantasy football and how both guys were genuinely angry and calling each other pussies and bitches. And we spent just about our entire hour long lunch break phone call talking about that (aka her talking and me listening). when we're having conversations like this, with her ranting about things, i can't help but notice how much time and energy were spending on topics that really don't matter. We could be talking about our future goals, we could be talking about things that are important or fulfilling to us. These are people who have their own problems, and aren't the types of people I would ever want to have as friends, so why talk about them for so long? I of course am not talking about her sharing her actual struggles and problems, but there's a few degrees of disconnect with this topic, and this is more gossipy. It's the type of thing where stoic advice could be quite useful for her if she found it herself, but as we all know it's not very effective or worthwhile to offer advice to others, so I'm not looking to try to point out the issues with her ways necessarily. Because of that, I'm not sure *what* to do about this. I don't want her to feel like I don't like hearing her thoughts, or that I don't want her to vent to me, but at the same time, she spends so much energy on people that don't warrant it, and it likely makes her less happy as a result.

You are projecting yourself onto her, you expect her behaviour to be more like yours. Don't you see that it's never gonna work like that? It will only create friction and separation, going down that road. She'll get over it when she is ready, if that's even a negative thing to begin with, because you are the one judging it as negative. Perhaps she thinks of it as positive.

How does a Stoic deal with a loved one spending time and energy on drama/getting upset by other people's behavior?

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Hi all, I've been looking into Stoicism for about 6 months now. I've found some aspects quite transformative, particularly the idea of dichotomy of control and also developing a journaling habit for clarity of thought. This sub has been really useful for me, so I would like to seek some advice if I may - I have to break some news to a colleague this week which will leave them extremely disappointed, possibly devastated. Delivering these kinds of messages is not a skill I have a lot of practice with and I'm wondering if anyone can think of any relevant Stoic texts / ideas I can keep in mind for the days ahead. Thank you in advance

You say you subscribe to Stoic prinicples - so from the outset you know that you cannot change him, and it is unwise to give him 'advice' unless he specifically requests it Time is the teacher here, and his mistakes. He will learn that his actions or non-actions have consequences and to try to save him from them would not only be pointless but counter-productive because he will not learn. Likewise, your friend who helps out voluntarily must find her own way. Sure, have a thought out opinion that you can give if asked, but wait to be asked. You need to be clear about your personal boundaries. Sometimes doing nothing is harder than doing something, but sometimes that is the Wiser course. Maintain your virtue. If you are not sure what to do, then think of how what you do choose might be viewed in hindsight. Others may suggest different Wise and Courageous choices open to you, but my take would be that you prepare what to say if asked, but if not asked then you keep up the friendship so he has someone to turn to when he owns his need. And if keeping up the friendship is too difficult for you, then you work out how to go separate ways.

Breaking bad news

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So I'm working on my depression and I'm attempting to improve my situation, and hopefully eventually become more content with my life. I'm going to therapy, going outside, exercising, socializing, seeking out hobbies, all of that as best I can. I understand that mental health is a work in progress and requires constant effort. Thing is, even despite my best effort, I still feel pretty darn bad in general. Now before you tell me it could be due to this or that, I already made sure to get checked up by my doctor and it turns out I'm in perfect physical health, and so it's currently in the works to arrange antidepressants for me. What I'm asking about here is advice specifically for dealing with simply just feeling bad all the time. I gather that the stoic mindset suggests that you don't let things, which are out of your control, worsen your mood, and you simply accept the current situation for what it is so you can move on until better times arrive. I have to simply wait until I get my hands on some antidepressants to lift my spirits, but it's not even a guarantee that they will work. It could very well be that they don't even work and I might have to try different ones or something else entirely. So what would the stoics suggest if you're facing an indefinite time of feeling absolutely horrible, and most conventional solutions don't really help?

>I gather that the stoic mindset suggests that you don't let things, which are out of your control, worsen your mood, and you simply accept the current situation for what it is so you can move on until better times arrive. That helped me at first too. It was helpful for me to recognize I could register my thoughts in the same way I registered noises I heard outside my window - they come, they go, another one comes, another one goes, some are pleasant, others not so much, a lot of them are just background noise. I learned to not be so attached to those melancholic or anxious feelings while I was first learning about Stoicism. The real work comes through analyzing beliefs, and that's because our beliefs drive our impulses, including our emotions. When you believe that a situation indicates a particular value, you will feel the appropriate emotion. When you believe an experience reveals a certain meaning, your emotions will follow. Learning to identify and analyze my beliefs to see if I was agreeing with them because they were logical and helpful, or if I was agreeing with them because they were familiar and I had simply assumed what I knew from childhood had to be the truth, was a game changer for me. Look into Epictetus "discipline of assent" for more about this. That, along with the disciplines of desire and action will help round out a new approach of thinking for you. I use an ABC journal to uncover new beliefs as I find them. "A" stands for the antecedent, or the thing that triggered my bad mood. "B" stands for the belief that I currently hold about why I think this event or experience was bad or wrong in some way. This takes time to explore because a lot of our beliefs are predicated on more basic, even more core beliefs. And finally "C" stands for the correction in my reasoning I want to remember for the next time I come across a similar circumstance. Anti-depressants didn't work for me, but changing my outlook and focus did. When you change your beliefs, the emotions follow.

Is there any stoic advice for dealing with depression and feeling miserable?

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Hey guys so my girlfriend her dad is not a nice person and keeps telling her that she's a mistake that she's worthless and all that type of stuff. Do you guys have any stoic advice to help her.

As someone who grew up with an abusive parent: * Abuse is a out the person doing the abuse, not the one at the receiving end. Really knowing that in you heart and soul helps you keep your own power to yourself. The worse thing that can happen would be for the abuse to take her power away. * Abusers are like most people, they do what they know and with what they have, just like we all act based on our understanding of reality. Knowing that, really knowing it helps with forgiveness. Apart from that, the stoic accepts that this is how the parent is and look at what is a available and in their control to escape the situation and/or temporarily accept that the escape may have to wait. If your girlfriend can't escape the physical situation, reading to try and understand toxic family dynamics or getting psychological/emotional support may help her gain insight that will help her to stay centered and happy inside.

Do you have some stoic advice for a mentally abusive father

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I've been studying up on stoicism and incorporating stoic principles into my life the last few years. I've found it positive, and I don't really tell anybody - including my wife of over a decade. I've always been a bit of a closet stoic anyway - I've always found joy and contentment in the small things, listening to music, going to a movie, having a nice meal, going on a hike, and my goal in life now more than ever is to simply live in peace. Lately however I've noticed my wife is going on a particularly non-stoic path, the opposite in fact, and it's putting a strain on our relationship. Lately, she's much more concerned about personal appearance, personal wealth, and material things. She's kinda stuck on the hedonic treadmill, chasing bigger and better things - better clothes, better jewelry, better vacations etc. This year however money is tighter, as life is more expensive (the economy, inflation, cost of living etc.) and it's affecting her mood daily. She's said to me this weekend that she's unhappy and has got "nothing to look forward to" - despite the fact that we live in a comfortable home, both have gainful employment, good friends and family, and have at least one good vacation planned for later this summer. I don't know how to get her out of her funk, and it's starting to bring me down - not to mention it makes me a little resentful. I could introduce her to stoicism and some of its principles, but I'm honestly not sure she'd take to it. In fact, I think she'd reject it outright. I get the impression that she thinks I'm not ambitious enough, and don't earn enough money to give her the life she desires. I think she's projecting her negative outlook on me personally. At this point maybe professional counseling is necessary. Any advice? Thanks.

"I get the impression that she thinks I'm not ambitious enough, and don't earn enough money to give her the life she desires" Putting thoughts in your partner's head is poisonous to a relationship. Ask her point blank, and proceed from there.

Spouse/partner incompatibility/friction due to my stoic world view?

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This is a serious question. Stoicism has resonated with me the most out of the philosophies, but holy shit lol. Some of y'all got make the most out of literally nothing. Similar to the meme about the blue curtains in english class. I discovered stoicism when I needed it most and I'm sure some of you have as well, but lads, lighten up. Marcus Aurelius said something similar to "Give up your thirst for books, so that you do not die a grouch." I think that can be interpreted as any form of education/growth. Don't get wrong, some of your posts are great. Dealing with your friends falling ill or losing a loved one. It's inspiring to see you apply what you've learn in reality. Just don't make me scroll through 10 paragraphs of how Karen cut you at Wendy's and you didn't lose your shit on her. Same goes for stretching out a mundane inconvenience with big words and other filler. Maybe some of you really do need that much work and this helps. If so, I'm glad you're working towards being better.

Unfortunately its the petty shit that seems to bother most of us as human beings. Getting cut off in traffic, not getting a pay raise, order was wrong, coworkers suck, whatever. A lot of folks take it as "super serious" but I think we could learn from the Cynic smartasses like Diogenes too. Being a Stoic is about being virtuous, ultimately. Control in order to *be* virtuous, and not go off the deep end. Not being a sanctimonious prick to everyone else around you by saying how detached you are from their problems. We're supposed to rise* above adversity but do it with empathy for others as well. Edit: rise* not rose

Is this a secret circle jerk sub?

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**Edit: So this blew up when I went to work. I really appreciate all of the responses everyone has given. I've taken the time to read them all, and will re-read as well at my leisure. A lot of things resonated with me, and I honestly did not think I'd have such an amazing response to this.** Hello stoics, This is a bit of a rant from the opposite side. I've read some basic stoicism, and honestly I do 100% find value in a lot of the teachings (The Obstacle is the Way got me through losing my job at the beginning of COVID, William Irving's The Stoic Path is a great short series of meditations), but I have trouble with the true depths of it. While I dabbled in stoicism and tried to apply its wisdoms to my daily life as a casual reminder (I was fair weather stoic, I suppose), my partner has completely embraced it as a framework for his life. I supported this, of course, and didn't say anything when he slowly started wearing his headphones all day while listening to audiobooks on stoicism, or meditating for an hour or more each morning and evening. After some time of this I brought up my concerns that I feel like he's disconnected from me a little bit. He confirmed that yes, he's removing attachments in his mind so as to not be bothered by the feelings of other people (i.e. me). But, if I'm coming to him because I'm upset about something, I want him to react. I don't want a blank stare and a "You can choose to own your feelings or not, but they're not my responsibility". This is where the turn happens in my mind. There is nothing kind or virtuous or strong in becoming cold towards the people in your life in exchange for building a wall of strength and unmoveability. William Irving fervently insists that stoics being negative human beings is a stereotype and simply not true. But is this cold negativity a phase all young stoics go through before coming out the other side and finding the balance of stoicism, wisdom, virtue, but also love and kindness and personality? Stoic meditation is a practice in appreciating what you have in the present. Things like the Last Time Meditation or Prospective Introspection are purely there to essentially convince yourself that you love your life, despite the fact that it probably sucks. Why would one have to throw themselves to deeply into practicing these meditations if they were happy? Why do you need to convince yourself so aggressively that your life is good? I don't need to meditate for hours a day to feel happy with, and in, my life. **I'd in particular love if someone can change my view on this. I'm very much struggling with this point here.** I really, really hate stoicism right now.

Yeah, your partner's missed the point entirely. Stoicism isn't about removing attachments in order to avoid the feelings of others. That's a cop out to avoid dealing with life. Stoicism is about consciously embracing your own emotions and understanding that nothing is forever. It's about living in the present and appreciating the good things in your life without undue concern about how you might one day lose those things. Mind you, I say "undue concern" not "no concern." Your partner's burying his head in the sands of theory and ignoring the real practice. A true Stoic is able to deal with another's feelings because they are themselves at peace with their own emotions. It's not about being "responsible" for that person's feelings at all.

Stoicism has turned my partner cold and distant. I want to support and embrace stoicism, but I can't.

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I'm a teenager (14) and around an hour ago my mother said to me: "You and your sister are a waste of my time and effort. I wish I never met your father so you could never be born." Can anyone help me? I've been heavily reading on Stoicism for 6 months now so I think this is the best sub to seek advice. I'd like some thoughts or pointers to texts. Did Epictetus or M.A ever write anything similar to dealing with stuff like this? When she said it to me, I felt hurt but didn't say anything. Right now she's visiting a friend's house so I'm alone right now as I type this. Right now I don't really feel sad or angry, just apathetic to the whole situation. I realize that what she said is out of my control and I should try to act virtuously. My question is how do I move forward from this? How do I do that virtuously? I'm not even sure that writing this post was a rational or emotional decision. Please help, thanks UPDATE: Thanks for all the comments, I had no idea this many people were so generous with their time, especially on a public site. I've read through all of them and I'll take that advice to heart. For some context (and looking back at it), I don't believe my mother was 100% malicious towards me. My father is a good person, but he's a high functioning alcoholic and sometimes he can go too far with drinking, and that really makes my mom angry. My dad was actually going over to his friend's house (to drink) and my mom was going with him to watch over him, so they had an argument about it. A couple hours before that, I admit that I was giving her a little attitude over a disagreement, so she was already riled up with me. I think it was more of an outburst than anything. I also think my mother has some mental problems, my sister had depression so I think it may run in the family. My relationship with my mother is hard to describe. I don't feel like I have a true family (which is fine, I'm sure I'll find one later on), just 3 acquaintances living in the same house. My sister is 25 and out of the house, but my relationship with her is also the same way. To be honest I am quickly getting over the whole thing, but I feel somewhat guilty about it. I feel like I am expected to be more sad about it, but as of now I don't feel anything. Thank you to all the commenters giving advice, I'll remember this post for a long time.

Plan your future. Think about how you want your life to be and build the best springboard you can. Just because your mother hates her life, it doesn't mean you have to hate yours.

One hour ago my mother said she regrets having me and that I'm a "waste of time"

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Ok so this is a long story so please bare with me. I am in the middle of completing a degree when I have decided that I could no longer be with my parents. I have suffered from depression and anxiety for a very long time and this has been extremely amplified by living at home. My dad is the biggest tyrant and bully I have ever met, so much so that after my whole life of him bullying me, I only recently called him a bully for the first time when my counsellor pointed out that he was (he managed to trick me through shockingly powerful manipulation). My mum is very subservient towards my dad and has always turned a blind eye to his actions, when I would bring up that I don't know how she lives with him, she'd always shut down the conversation. This includes when my father physically abused me when I was 6 years old and he has denied it since. This event only came into light recently because, although I remembered this, I always doubted it since my parents would never confirm this when I brought it up and always called me a liar, my mum admitted this happened to my sister as she was concerned that she let my father get away with far too much with me (which is absolutely true). My mum has been a silent witness to all of his evil doings and to me specifically (it stems from him hating his older brother and as I am the oldest son, he has always taken that out on me). My dad calls all the shots in the family and despite having a wife and 5 kids (including me) lives his life pretty much entirely for self-interest as he is very narcissistic (for example he'd go on expensive holidays with friends when we'd be very low on money). He can never be wrong and whenever he is minutely offended about anything I do (this is usually something like me trying to leave the room to do important work when he wants me to hear one of his very racist and homophobic rants) he has always told me that "I do nothing for him" and that "he does everything for me". When actually I've done everything he's ever asked (I've always been v obedient to his wishes) and he's done only what he approves of for me. They have never been emotional supportive to me but around 1.5 years ago I had an extremely traumatic event (I won't go into details) and I went to them because of it. They were very un-useful and extremely judgemental of what had happened because it disagreed with their religious (catholic) views. So since then I have stopped going to them for support and they have only been a financial support to me for my university studies + I've seen them as little as possible. Soon after this (1.25 years ago) I also came to the conclusion that I am queer. This is against their catholic views completely and I have lived in fear ever since that they would kick me out of their house and give me 0 financial support (I don't live with them whilst I study, only in the holidays). Since then I have been saving up in case I was ever to be cut off financially. Earlier this year I became very suicidal because of this lack of support and acceptance from my parents and most of those close to me at my university neglected me because I was very depressed and antisocial. It was a very hard time and luckily through a couple very close friends + free university counselling I came out the other side alive. Stoicism has been massively helpful in this recovery and I've also made some important realisations about spending time with people who don't actually have your back. I then went home for the summer months were living with my parents continued to be unbearable and as usual my dad talked about how much I cost him and how I do nothing for him. I then found a funding programme for estranged students that meant I can now go on to complete my degree without needing my parents' funding. However, I would need to cut contact with them for 12 months before my final year starts (this means basically from now for the next year). With this, I decided that I would run away from home and study abroad for a year, where they would have no way of knowing where I was living. This is where I am at now. As a striving stoic, I believe that what I am doing is removing myself from malice in my life and giving myself actual freedom to be who I am so I can achieve as close to self perfection as possible. I know that I am doing the best thing for myself but I still feel very attached to my mum even if she has been very judgmental, a silent witness to my suffering and not emotionally supportive. I would really appreciate hugely if I could be given some advise as to how I can use stoicism to help me through this difficult time and/or to justify this? As I have been struggling with this and the part of stoicism that says we need to accept peopel's nature and forgive their ignorance because in this case, their behaviour is greatly harming me. Thank you so much for reading through this!

One of my favorite passages from Meditations covers this exact problem: >"When your sparring partner scratches or head-butts you, you don't then make a show of it, or protest, or view him with suspicion or as plotting against you. And yet you keep an eye on him, not as an enemy or with suspicion, but with a healthy avoidance. > > > >You should act this way with all things in life. We should give a pass to many things with our fellow trainees. For, as I've said, it's possible to avoid without suspicion or hate." -- *Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, 6.20* You should accept your parents' natures because what else can you do? Worrying about it or investing time into trying to change people who refuse to change is a waste. You should forgive your parents because Stoicism teaches us that they are coming not from a place of malice or hate but from ignorance. But that doesn't mean you have to stand there and take the abuse. What Marcus is saying here IMO is to cultivate an attitude where you can say to your parents (maybe not like literally to them) "I would have preferred if you supported me in my identity and education, but if not then I'm not going to let that stop me from living the life I want to live."

Permanently cutting contact with my parents

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This is my perception, at least. If there is some truth to it, I think it is worth exploring reasons why it is true. At the risk of comparing apples to oranges, I hear a lot from women in Taoist, or say, existentialist discussions. I don't think the same thing can be said for stoicism. Are there any women on this sub who could speak to this? Or men who may have a clue? Could you guys be turned off by a masculine community that idolizes almost exclusively white men? Or does some element of your experience in society that we don't have, or vice versa, render stoicism irrelevant? The disparity is alarming to me, honestly. If it's real, there's probably a reason why. Edit: if some of you guys are offended by me mentioning race, I didn't really mean it as a jab. I just thought it was relevant since I was curious about inclusiveness/diversity in general Edit 2: some of the best answers/ notes I'm seeing: -Although a recent poll reflected 12% representation by women on this sub, many women are here silently, and many more women practice stoicism but don't engage in this community or even call it stoicism -I definitely conflated stoics everywhere with the Reddit community, whoops! -whiteness is a new concept, and many founders of stoicism weren't white even by modern standards. Assuming they all were is pretty prejudiced! -historical silencing / non inclusion of women in philosophy and public forums And much more, thank you so much for the honest and thoughtful discourse!!

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Why is stoicism so overwhelmingly male dominated?

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One of my favorite books is The Conquest of Happiness by Betrand Russell. It has many techniques that can be compatible with the practice of Stoicism. However, his main advice is that happiness comes from focusing outward instead of self-absortion: "Bertrand Russell believed that closing yourself off only leads to sadness and boredom. If we focus only on what is missing in our lives, on our problems, failures, and fears, we lose enthusiasm for life. In this aspect, he coincides with Eastern philosophers and Lacanian psychoanalysis. These two schools of thought believe that the "I" is a source of suffering and illness." https://exploringyourmind.com/happiness-according-bertrand-russell/ I think he is RIGHT. I feel happy when I just do an activity for it's own sake, instead of doing it for improving myself. My problem is that Stoicism seems to encourage self-improvement and thinking about oneself doing the right thing ALL THE TIME. My experience with this is that this mindset make me think too much about myself with thoughts like "I'm not being productive", "I'm so lazy, I need to work on something". Also, I think It's better to develop many external insterests and work on them instead of trying to be productive for the sake of it. I admire polymaths like Leonardo da Vinci or Bertrand Russell itself. They worked hard because they we're following curiosity, not Virtue. I think that thinking too much about oneself can lead to problems that doesn't even exist in the first place, like feeling guilty for not being productive or Virtuous enough, or even feeling bad for not being happy enough. Focusing on the external things instead of the internal can break the cycle. https://socialanxietyinstitute.org/focus-externally I've found that sometimes distracting oneself with something of your interest can make the problem "disappear" (because it's solved subconsciously). I still believe very much of Stoicism philosophy is useful, but maybe analysing all the aspects of your life isn't the best strategy. Maybe we should only focus on our problems when is absolutely necessary: "The wise man thinks about his troubles only when there is some purpose in doing so; at other times he thinks about other things, or, if it is night, about nothing at all." Sorry for my bad English TL;DR Thinking too much about oneself is bad, even when you try to solve your problems. It's better to focus on the things that surround us.

I don't think self-improvement is the main goal of Stoicism; it's only a secondary side-effect. The main purpose of Stoicism is to be a good person and, for the ancient Stoics, "to live in accordance to nature". Marcus Aurelius compared it to how bees and ants perform their individual tasks. They don't need to stop and think whether they're doing a good job, or compare themselves to others, or get self-conscious about the need to improve. They just collect food for the nest and that's it.

My problems with Stoicism and self-absortion

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Recently, i've found that a lot of people who practice stoicism are going through a rough time in their lives. That makes sense, but what about the people who are living great, happy lives with not many troubles? I'm still young, 14 years old, but stoicism interests me very much. I want to be a better person, but i find it's hard to practice stoicism when so much of it is accepting things that aren't in your control. Bad things can happen to anyone, sure, but I'm very fortunate to begin with. Can I still practice stoicism? Edit: Thanks for all the comments and advice!

Absolutely. Personally I think that using Stoicism only as a tool to get you through hard times is a very incomplete practice. There's a lot more to this philosophy - [the FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/faq) is a very good introduction. The "in your control" thing doesn't simply mean you should accept bad things that happen, but that only your own actions and choices are in your control, and all other things aren't. Which means a Stoic focuses mainly on good actions and choices.

Is it possible to embody stoicism even if you aren't going through hard times?

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I am mostly referring to Daily Stoics recent Instagram post about justice in regards to the Derek Chauvin trial. There are a sickening number of comments saying "Quit dragging politics into Stoicism", "Look at you virtue signaling" etc etc.... I mean really people. I couldn't name a moral philosophy more intertwined in political goings on than Stoicism. Not to mention, trying and finding someone guilty of murder is *not* political and if that's something that's up for debate for you, than friend, please do not associate yourself with Stoicism because clearly virtue is not for you. But seriously, why is there such a toxic culture planting their flag in Stoicism? Edit: Ok, wow, this post has illuminated some glaringly obvious disgusting sides of this subreddit. I hope you all are proud of yourselves. Edit Edit: I hear you guys, I understand you guys. I made this post in the heat of the moment this morning, and that energy carried me through the day and colored many of my moments. Talk about a lesson in Stoicism. To any who I have alienated, know that it was nothing personal, I'm just a human with my own set of Biases and neuroses. I don't regret any of this, nor the post, but like Marcus would do, I will take this time to reflect on my own actions and perceptions.

One of the Modern Stoicism podcast episodes discussed this phenomenon, of certain sub-cultures cherry-picking certain parts of Stoicism to both piggy-back in the current popularity of Stoicism content and as a way of legitimizing their views. Going off of memory: - $toicism: a get-rich-or-die-trying approach going around certain entrepreneurial circles - Bro-icism: a macho-man approach aligned with many of the so-called "men rights groups". These tend to leverage quotes from Stoic texts around the themes of endurance and resilience, while completely bypassing the search for wisdom and justice. IMHO, when people say something like "Don't drag politics into Stoicism", they mean "don't point out how some of my beliefs don't align with Stoicism".

What's the deal with people using Stoicism as a way to justify their own cognitive biases and neuroses?

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>*I'm sure I'll look back ten years from now and view every day I'm out here without regret* This is a quote from a novel I was reading called *Hyouka* by Yonezawa Honobu. After reading this quote in the book, it made me think about the future that lies ahead of me. In ten years from now, I will be in my early 30s and I'm sure the life I have will be very different from the life I have now. If I recall ten years back, I didn't pretty much bother about the future, life is fun and games. But looking at myself now, I just realize how scary it is that life has changed drastically. I already read and practice Stoicism to some extent. I know that *there are things outside my control that I can't do anything about it such as the past and the future*. No matter how much I try to do, I can't change the past or the future. All I can do is accept the fact and move one with my life. Expect that not everything will go as I wish. But here's the things. *I can affect the future by altering the way I live now*. In a way, I can try to choose the way how my future looks. Back to my original question, even if I'm successfully gain the future that I want. The world will be so different in ten years from now. I will be a different person in ten years from now. How do I know I won't regret the past (this presents) that I live in? and what can I do to make my future less regrettable? Sorry for bad English EDIT: Hey everyone thanks for all the wonderful comments!! sorry, I can't reply to any of you but here's my summary of all the things I read from the comments. I hope you all and everyone reading this can learn something from this. # What should I do to make sure in ten years from now I won't regret the life I had today? >**Your life is an investment** What I mean by this is what we do today will ripple into even bigger things in the future. There's a lot of what we can do to make our future better. The most basic is to be kind to our bodies. Health is the most precious investment so make sure we get the most profit from our body. Start exercise, have a healthy diet, avoid drugs, and many more. Something that also needs to be considered is to try to have a stable life and financing. Be generous with your spendings and try not to have debts. >**Forget or forgive** How to have a less regrettable future is to learn how to forgive or forget your past. Know that you will improve as a person to be better than you from the past. One way to do it is to keep a journal recording your life such as milestones, mood, skills that you learned, events in your life, and many more. When you look at that journal you'll know that your past is a journey of life you have in the future. Also no matter how hard we try there will be some way that we will regret the past. Some basic thing to know is that no matter how much we think about the past we still can't change the past. We have to let go of the past and move on with our life. The presents is what we live now, so we better make the best out of it. >**We always life in the present** We are not time traveler (maybe some of you are lol), so we only live in the present. The future will be the present time someday. While we live in the present we can and should make the best out of it, be virtuous. All this to make the future a better day and less regrettable. Also, something that needs to keep in mind is that whatever we do there are always things that can go wrong and won't go as you wish, and that's okay there's always another day. Expect the best but know that everything will you as you expect. Endnote: Sorry if I can't put all your thoughts into this summary but I did read them all and all of them are wonderful, some of them even I never think of. I hope everyone have a nice day and can be proud of the life you have now.

1. Take care of your health. Physical and mental. 2. Get out of debt and save money. Have a financial plan for your future. 3. Be friends with people you aspire to be like. Quality of friends is far superior than quantity.

What should I do to make sure in ten years from now I won't regret the life I had today?

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So I recently got out of a pretty toxic and difficult phase of my life, with someone who is no longer in it. I realised that the first couple of months after everything happened, I was an emotional wreck. I'm not sure if this is the right sub for this but I really want to start learning more about myself and grow stronger. One of the key aspects of this for me is not necessarily learning to control my emotions (since I think they're already pretty well adapted and controlled) but just being less emotional and hurt as easily as I am by words and things around me. I am planning to start meditating from today onwards. Other things I've picked up are yoga and plans to read a couple of books by famous stoics. Any other suggestions for specifically managing my emotions in context of stoicism? (Again, not sure if this is the right sub for this and I apologise if this post is misplaced - I will delete it if so.)

Hello there! I think it sounds like you are on the right track. You have been through a crisis and have begun rebuilding and improving yourself. That is so great! What I'm thinking is "easy, Tiger". With all those new initiatives you risk burning out before any of your new habits get a solid foothold. I might certainly be wrong, but if I had to start doing those things at once, I would soon just stop all together. Better with a calm begining I would say. So no. I won't give you anything more. I think you have enough to begin and I would wait with meditation or yoga until your new habits have become second nature. I say this from a place of love :)

Advice?

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Hello, I'm a senior in high school and new to the philosophy of stoicism. My freshman year was rough, as I underestimated what HS (high school) was going to demand of me; though, I still passed all if my classes and got a 2.83 GPA. Sophomore and junior year went a lot better, and I really began to feel good about school: 4.0 GPA, all A's, school felt like taking out the trash but more interesting to be frank. But, senior year has rolled around, and things feel completely different. It takes so much out of me to get work done on time, among many other things. The major catalyst for me reaching out to others in this subreddit is a writing assignment I have due tonight. Writing has always been a strong suit of mine, and several of my teachers complimented me frequently on my writing in past years, and I had one an annual writing contest held by AVID (a college readiness program, look it up if you feel so inclined) one year. I feel like I've forgotten my ability to write fluently and as well as I used to, I have tried my best to produce the same quality work as I used to so easily, but it feels impossible. It hurts because it makes me question my intelligence, and even worse, the more I stress out the harder everything becomes. I used to be motivated by stress, and could manage it better and use it as a springboard. Now I feel so weak and incapable. I'm not sure what else to say at the moment, so I'll leave it at this for now. Discussion greatly welcome and appreciated.

I get the sense you are feeling something so many people can relate to right now, you are in a rut and feeling stagnant. I obviously cant fully understand the exact situation you are in, but most likely, you're entire world has been shrunken over the last year. You're not physically going to school, you might be missing out on activities you used to enjoy, you spend a lot more time at home, etc. But one thing I feel confident in saying, your current difficulty with writing has little to do with your innate intelligence or skills. From a Stoic perspective, this is a great place to practice the dichotomy of control. You cannot control your current situation due to the pandemic. You can't even control the fact you have a paper due or the fact that something that once came easily is now difficult. You can however control your actions. Break down your writing into actionable steps. If your usual method of writing isn't working, try something else. Outline more, brainstorm more. Look for a change of scenery (staying safe, of course). Go for a drive and ramble to yourself about the topic you have to write about. You can't control where you are, but you sure as hell can control where you are going. Pick a direction and start building some momentum. You've got this!

High School Student Struggling Greatly With Online Classes (new format due to COVID)

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I almost got hit by a car this morning. I was walking into an intersection when I saw a car coming into the stop sign hot, so I stoped walking. The person looked up and hit the breaks mid-intersection and stoped. His window is down so I say "Hey buddy, nice stop. Go ahead you're in such a rush". The guy looked at me with a look of bewilderment (almost angry at me) and drove off. I feel that without anger on my part, I may have made this guy understand what he did was wrong and hopefully because of that he might pay more attention while driving and think twice about running stop signs. I feel like lighthearted sarcasm was better than anger in that situation. I know Diogenes (a Cynic) would hold lantern to the faces of the citizens of Athens claiming he was searching for an honest man (a form of sarcasm). Did the stoics do something like this as well or was this too "in your face"? I'm not really torn up about this, but it just made me think about the interaction once I got home. I understand I can only control MY actions, but what does stoicism say about shaming via sarcasm to teach a lesson to someone else?

A lesson I learned working road construction: "No harm, no foul." If I got upset every time I ALMOST got hit by a less-than-careful driver, I'd never have gotten any work done. It took me too long to realize that I should apply this attitude to other parts of my life. (Now, this doesn't mean that I shouldn't be as careful and respectful of others as possible. I just shouldn't expect the same from random people on the street. Not should I really worry about "teaching a lesson.")

Shaming (with sarcasm) to teach a lesson

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Now dont get me wrong. I like stoicism as a philosophy and what it portrays, to stand upright even in the face of hardship. Being content in thyself. And what it values. Today I had a random thought about why I am trying to be virtues instead of falling for vices. Funnily enough it was not that easy to answer, perhaps because I didn't think much about the counter part. After a while I came to the conclusion that the virtuoes of stoicism bring a certain piece in my mind and self sufficiency to deal with life. While the counter part of doing bad like stealing, harming other, greed... would just causes turbelence and disturbance in myself, as I would harm other I would harm myself in the same way, but the question is how does that happen? I dont know if this questions of why, would lead to a never ending cycle but it seems like it kinda for me right now. Even though I kind of have a answer it feels like something is missing. So I ask you guys for your reasons why you guys thrive for virtues instead of falling for vices?

Well, look at it this way - why do you eat food instead of gravel? When the rain starts falling, why do you seek a roof? Because those things are obviously good for you. It's much more difficult to choose what you see as bad and harmful - unless it helps you reach a goal you consider even more important. So why choose specific things? Because we see them as good for us. If someone thinks harming others to benefit from it is great, then why wouldn't he choose it? There is no reason not to. So it all comes down to knowledge and understanding what is good for us. For example, if I'm convinced that lying on a couch all day, watching TV is beneficial, I will do it. If I find out later it had the side effect of atrophying both my muscles and my brain, then I'll start looking for better ways to spend my time - because now I have better knowledge, and I can make better choices. Why choose the classic Stoic Virtues of wisdom, courage, moderation and justice? Because they are beneficial for us. I can't imagine my life being better in any way if I'm instead stupid, afraid of everything, lacking self-control, and unable to have reasonable relations with other people. This doesn't make sense even if you decide to make pleasure your goal, because you'll be too inept to achieve it. I like to define Virtue as having a good understanding of what is good, and what isn't (or at least being able to make a good guess about it), which allows us to handle life well. Things like not stealing or harming others depend strongly on your understanding of your position in society. Stoics have a concept called Okieiosis, which basically means that we should reach out and treat other people as we would treat ourselves. They believed it is something natural and appropriate for humans. So why not harm others - because by doing so you are acting against your nature as a human, so you are choosing against your own good. Of course that last part is something based on 2000-year old observations, and understanding of science, and not everyone will agree. Personally even if I'm not so keen on Natural Law, I think the Stoic reasoning still makes sense from what I've read about emotional development, and from what I've seen in various people I know.

Why do we good instead of bad?

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Hi! I have just discovered about stoicism and I am really interested in learning more. I would be really grateful if you gave me some advice on where to start. Thank you!!

Right here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/faq The FAQ itself is great, and there's a huge list of suggested readings at the end.

Any good books about stoicism for beginners?

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Hello everyone, I recently have started reading about stoicism and have even implemented some Stoic ideas in my own life. One big problem that conflicts with me though is the idea that everyone is a good person underneath everything and the people who do bad are just "lost". This idea really conflicts with what I have experienced in my life and I just do not understand it. Would a Stoic then believe that serial killers and awful people from history like Adolf Hitler were good people? If so, please explain how that conclusion can be met. Thanks for reading and any input is appreciated!

everyone is a person at heart, good is a judgement call, just like bad is

How can Stoics believe everyone is a good person at heart?

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In my practice of Stoicism I feel less empathetic towards people now. I can't feel their struggle and happiness. I used to be a very empathetic person too. I feel callous. I don't care if one of my family goes through pain. And this is alarming. I use to be extremely sensitive to pain, but now that I've adopted stoicism, I'm much less affected by pain because of the techniques like negative visualisation etc. Inversely, that means that when I see someone else suffering I can't connect with the pain they're going through, I just think about how they should adopt stoicism. Essentially I feel much less pain myself, pain doesn't bother me that much. So I expect the same of others and when they're going through pain I don't feel sorry for then as much either. The sharpness of pain had been dulled so I kind of expect others to suck it up too. I'm pretty sure that someone can point me out to how my thinking is wrong, why this isn't stoicism. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you. Edit: Helpful advice came in droves, thank you guys. One piece of advice that was repeated throughout was that although now my pain is dulled, I should remember when I used to be overwhelmingly struck by pain. I should remember that feeling when looking at a loved one going through pain. I should also be grateful that I'm not being affected by pain as much as I used to, and believe me that's really great. Another bit of advice is that my expectations are too high of people. I've been so on my high-horse that as soon as I do something I expect everyone to be there. I should instead seek to meet people at the place they are in their journey and seek to help them. Another thing is that I seem to have a lack of caring about others. I think this was due to a coping mechanism after a pretty rough break-up. I should now begin practising feeling what others feel. Also on the notion of caring for others, I feel that I should take down the coping mechanism and allow myself to care about people. Not to extinguish that feeling at first sight of it. However, Another question I have to ask is in caring for people. Do you not hinge your tranquillity upon their good fortune, which is categorically unStoic? Or is their a way to care about others but not rest your good emotion upon what happens to them?

I've had the opposite experience. Stoicism has made me able to relate and empathize rather than feel their idiots or should adopt some other behavior. People are doing what they feel they should be doing, granted it they are often mistaken/ignorant, but they're not being malicious.

Stoicism makes me feel less empathetic towards people.

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A few dear friends of mine do seem happy and fulfilled. However, they do not live a virtuous life in the Stoical sense. They give it their best at work, but they limit the efforts to their weekly 40 hours. Apart from those weekly 40 hours, they do not spend any time improving themselves or becoming better versions of themselves. They spend all their non-work time hanging out with friends and family, playing videogames, playing sports, etc. They invest no time in reading books or learning new skills. From how I understand Stoicism, this cannot lead to a happy and fulfilled life. Yet, they seem like the most happy people I know. They seem carefree and enjoying their lives to the fullest. I'm inquisitive about the Stoic views on people like them. Do they have a happy life in the Stoic sense? Or could they be even more content? How? Because Stoicism is about a happy life, not a perfect life. Thank you for any thoughts you share!

It depends on your definition of happiness. The thing with the naive happiness you're describing is that precisely it is naive. What normal people do is to ignore everything that feels bad or difficult and do everything that feels good and easy. That's what people are taught and encouraged to do without much thought. A philosophy like Stoicism says this isn't enough because the greatest good is to build character and live according to nature, that is all of nature and reality, the parts that feel good and the parts that feel bad. Adversities, challenges, obstacles, these are meant to be taken as a way to overcome your limits and grow. Without these you remain immature, and haven't you noticed how infantile most of society has become? They will enjoy their "happiness" quite until they can't afford to look away.

Can you be happy without becoming the best version of yourself?

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Hello, recently I've finished reading "Letters from a stoic" by Seneca. It seems to me, as if Seneca does not hold much value on physical fitness and sports. Throughout the book he mentioned physical fitness only a few times and he didn't seem to care about it a lot, as the body ages anyway and the physical fitness begins to vanish at some point. I remember him saying that the mind is a way bigger priority. Personally, I enjoy sports a lot. In fact, sports contribute a lot to my mental well-being, and without physical training for a longer period of time I start to get a little depressed. So I wonder: Are there any stoics that talk about physical fitness and sports? I know that Socrates once famously said "No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.", but I don't think Socrates was a stoic, although he definitely influenced stoicism. What do you think, is physical fitness and sports important for the mentality or does it contradict stoicism, as it puts value in things out of your control (your body to a certain degree)? I cannot explain why sports do me good based on a stoic point of view. I would guess it's because we should live according to nature, and being active is a natural instinct. Do you have any stoic sources on physical fitness and sports? What do you think: How much value does it have in the stoic philosophy? How can the positive effects sports have on the mind be explained from a stoic point of view?

I don't have any sources where physical activity is a subject. Although, I think the quote you shared from Socrates was on point, no matter if he was a devout stoic. I personally think physical activity and sports is very beneficial to mental fortitude and helps up deal with difficult situations. Constantly putting yourself against opposition whether be an opponent, yourself or a situation. Even a simple fitness routine can teach us virtuous life skills such as perseverance, self-improvement, discipline, overcoming challenges, and building self-confidence. Taking care of your physical health is something well in our control as well.

Stoicism on physical fitness and sports

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Hello. I've recently embraced the Stoic philosophy and I've found it helps a lot with almost all aspects of my life. But I have trouble reconciling something. Stoicism teaches that we can only control ourselves and that while we may try to help and teach others by nudging them in the right direction, you ultimately cannot control them. The problem is that my brother suffers from extreme depression. My natural instinct is to try and help him, but of course I can only help him insofar as he is willing / able to help himself. If any of you have had depression, I'm sure you'll understand that for an ordinary person (non Stoic) this is far more easily said than done. So while I've talked to him and tried to help him, he only has excuses for why he can't do it (which I understand is the depression talking). So now I feel powerless to help and I feel like I should be able to do something, but I also know that I have no way to actually control this. What does Stoicism say about helping those who are unable / unwilling to help themselves? Edit: Thanks to everyone for the sound advice. I now understand that while I cannot change him or heal his depression, I can at least be there for him, provide compassion, understanding, and guidance (should he seek it). Ultimately I can't do more than be there for him and help him through this. I'm still learning a lot about how Stoicism teaches us to interact with others, so the advice is very much appreciated!

IMO, Stoicism is not what you need for your brother. * I suggest outreach, research, building bridges of understanding and access/experience with him. (I would be glad to discuss and write more specific advice if asked) Stoicism is what you need for yourself.

My Brother Has Depression

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I have a coworker that likes to gossip about my personal life from information she gains from my post. I removed her as a follower a few months ago, but recently she has attempted to re add me. I blocked her. My primary struggle is that I am trying to accept the nature of others and be agreeable/sociable as I can. I feel kinda negative about putting up a wall. By practicing stoicism, how do I justify my action or direct decision?

My two cents: What you do, is no concern of hers and what she does is of no concern to you. Unless it somehow harms both parties. Then that requires intervention. You blocked her by making a logical choice to spare you of further malice. This is your way of intervening. Lets hope he/she/it gets the message and moves on.

Blocking Coworkers on Social

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In Meditations, Marcus Aurelius mentions that there are 3 kinds of people: 1.) who help someone and immediately look for reciprocity 2.) who are slower to look for something in return but who feel like the person owes them something 3.) who, like a vine which bears grapes each season, move from one good task to another without expecting anything in return. If we believe that we must be aware of the good we did and also make the person whom we helped aware of it, he believes we belong to the 1st category. Our duty is to be part of the 3rd category--help people without expecting anything in return. However, what I have found practicing stoicism, is that you end up just being a good solider to the situation and end up getting all the work while other reap the benefit of complaining and getting no work. In a way, you end up being a pacifist. I also feel that you gotta remind people about your good deeds otherwise they go unnoticed. As the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease first. In politics, most decisions to get things passed is quid pro quo. I don't know, is my worldview just dark? Thoughts, comments and opinions?

"Its possible to be a good man without anyone realizing it" \- Marcus Aurelius

What's the point of being benevolent when others don't do the same? Life is like the game Survivor, in order to win, there has be a level of manipulation.

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Some context: I work in a reference lab and we deal with a high volume of samples to be tested. Management is getting better from what it was a year and a half ago, but it's still a rollercoaster, considering the global pandemic. I've been practicing stoicism for a while now to help me with my mental health. It's been working for me internally - I've become more aware of how I react and deal with stressful situations and learn to focus more on what matters and to deal with it head on. But work... man sometimes do I wish my coworkers would just stfu and work. Yeah, it sucks and it could be better, but they act like they're the only ones working here. I've learned to drown them out, but I feel like I'm a sink hole for everyone to vent out their complaints to. There's only so much a person could take. If only I could tell them, "if it's endurable, then endure it, stop complaining." I mean, I have my own problems with management considering how long I've been there and how certain people complain when they have it better than me what with all the extra slack I pick up because of them. tl;dr - How do I deal with coworkers who complain about work all the time, especially when they get paid more than me and I do the most work? At this point, I'm looking for another job similar to this one, but that another situation I can't afford to deal with right now.

You found a coping mechanism that works for you but your coworkers are using a different coping mechanism that harshes your mellow. I've dealt with the same thing at my previous job. You set boundaries. Tell them you're busy and will hear them out later, or that you'd rather focus on work and not hear complaints at all. Or ask if they plan to do anything about their complaints -- that often shuts people up because all they're doing is venting.

How do you deal with coworkers who constantly complain?

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Please forgive me for what I am about to say, I'm very new to stoicism but there are parts that I don't understand I understand and support the idea to not get up set over what's out of our control. But what exactly is not in our control? If I don't agree with the law, I could run for office and change it. I could get up and smack the person who is playing heavy metal out of their phone on the plane. My point is mostly everything, besides the weather, is somewhat in our control, Even if we have no intention of trying to control it. We still can. So does that give us a right to get upset?

You can control yourself. That's about it. Everything else you can influence, at best. Using your example, you can run for office; that is in your control. But being elected to that office is not under your control. You campaign to hopefully gain enough favor from people to vote for you, but, ultimately, their choice is not under your control. And, yes, you could smack someone whose music annoys you. But, you would not control their response. They may cower, they may counter-attack, they may call the police because you assaulted them. You only controlled yourself, insofar as you chose to slap them. You could have chosen to not be annoyed by the music. I hope this helps.

A question for stoics

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Been subbed for awhile and have been really fascinated by stoics and their way of thinking and that's why I've joined this community! But over the last while I've began to wonder is this sub just another self development/motivation community rather than the actual study of stoicism? Stocisim I feel is something that takes alot of time to learn but can be very beneficial for certain areas of life such as anger and how we should control our emotions rather than lash out etc. Over the last while though I see people asking for advice on a certain life situations their in or how to respond to their girlfriend breaking up with them. I feel that they couldn't give two shits about stocisim and just want a perspective change rather than learn stocisim itself. How do you feel about this?

> But over the last while I've began to wonder is this sub just another *self development/motivation community* rather than the actual study of stoicism? For most part it seems like it is, or a quote repository. If you really want to study Stoicism, reading academic books and articles, watching university lectures is the way to go. Frankly if you want to learn about any topic, I wouldn't put reddit in the top 10 sources of information!

Is r/stoicism another self development sub or is it actually about the study of stoicism?

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I just found out my good friend died in a tragic freak accident doing what he loved most in the world. We weren't best friends but I always enjoyed his company and hanging out with him. He had a very infectious energy and was always happy and it rubbed off on all those around him. I often feel quite blase about life, my girlfriend often says how nothing really phases me. I can always calm her down and make her see the good in the bad. I often feel immune to happiness and sadness. I'm not depressed or anything and feel calmly content mostly. This is the first death I have experienced of someone I was close with and yet I feel almost nothing. Is this normal? It just made me think of my own impending death and how I should keep my journal more and stay true to myself. Is this a normal reaction to the death of a close friend? I felt a little empty at my total lack of emotional reaction. Sometimes I wonder if my lack of emotions make me less human. After all human can experience the most intense emotions, the deepest pains and sorrows. Stoicism definitely cemented this aspect of my personality. Would I want to trade my apparently apathetic mind to one that wallows in the full spectrum of human emotions? I'm not sure, I don't think it is for me to choose. Or maybe it is? Is this a normal reaction to death? How have you dealt with death? Memento Mori

Everyone expresses their emotion differently. The way you wrote this long text shows that your thinking your friend that you will never see again. If your words here while writing contains faint amount of sadness then its still emotion. Or what is the feelingof emptiness then? You and yourself can do self reflection on what is going on around you.

My friend died today and I felt almost nothing

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Do you think stoicism is a perfect philosophy without room for improvement? Are there modifications you've made to adapt it to your life? If you've modified it, can it still be called stoicism? I'm curious about other's opinions and experiences on this.

Stoicism evolved constantly after Zeno founded the school, and practitioners of the time took it in different directions. There is endless room to evolve it further. None of us fully practice ancient Stoicism, we all pick and choose, and modify it to suit our needs. As for what to call it, that's just a matter of consensus rather than fact. I suppose we could call ourselves Stoic-inspired, and leave it at that. I do think it is important to maintain a distinction between our own beliefs and practices, and our understanding and interpretation of the ancient beliefs and practices. We can assert the latter here freely, but the former ought to be qualified so that no one is inadvertently misled.

Can stoicism be improved?

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As the title says I am interested in your opinion on this. Why do you prefere/like stoicism more? Why do you think stoicism is more helpfull? Where do you think epicureanism is wrong? Epicures saw his opponent in stoicism. Even though both of these philosophies say that happiness and a fulfilled life come from inside they take a different approach on reaching their goals. It looks like that stoicism 'won' the battle of time because r/stoicism has ~400.000 followers and r/epicureanismhas ~15.000. Thats why I want to hear your opinion why you think epicureanism has a 'wrong' view on life. Don't get me wrong. I know that you can choose multiple philosophies in your life. You can mix things and pick which ever suits you and helps you in your life. I dont see this as black and white but for the sake of the question I just asked about epicures 'wrong' points.

I'll use the Google definition for Epicurianism: >an ancient school of philosophy founded in Athens by Epicurus. The school rejected determinism and advocated hedonism (pleasure as the highest good), but of a restrained kind: mental pleasure was regarded more highly than physical, and the ultimate pleasure was held to be freedom from anxiety and mental pain, especially that arising from needless fear of death and of the gods. and Stoicism: > 2 an ancient Greek school of philosophy founded at Athens by Zeno of Citium. The school taught that virtue, the highest good, is based on knowledge; the wise live in harmony with the divine Reason (also identified with Fate and Providence) that governs nature, and are indifferent to the vicissitudes of fortune and to pleasure and pain. Obviously, if one feels like virtue is a higher good than pleasure, one will naturally be attracted to Stoicism. This is the sort of answer that is easier to explain to your parents, especially in a religious culture. In many ways, though, practical Stoicism is completely compatible with Epicurianism. Living virtuously can feel very good. Recognizing that things are out of my control can drastically diminish the anxiety I might otherwise feel about death or just bad situations. Only in situations where I must choose between pleasure and virtue do they come into contact, and in most situations I know that abandoning virtue wouldn't likely lead to long-term pleasure, if only because I was raised the way I was raised, so I'd feel guilty about it.

Why did you choose stoicism over epicureanism?

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Hi I'm new here, and to stoicism too, so I'm sorry if I don't have a great grasp on the issue. But I read somewhere about how one of the things stoicism teaches you is to control your perception: "Choose not to be harmed and you won't feel harmed. Don't feel harmed and you haven't been." - Marcus Aurelius But how does that factor in with emotional abuse, especially gaslighting? If I look back at my last relationship, which was quite emotionally abusive, my ex would gaslight me and tell me that I'm too sensitive and that I hold the power to let his words hurt me- I could simply not care. I can't seem to work out how what Marcus Aurelius says vs what my ex was saying.. was it really my fault? Should I have not been bothered by his hurtful words? Thank you

I appreciate that this Stoic advice can be very hard to internalize, and how it might even sound a little crazy. The truth is, it's really very good advice, and the more you understand of it the easier it is to grasp. Imagine I were to try to convince you of the opposite of what Marcus said - that other people can make you feel bad and that there is nothing you can do about it. Suppose I added that even random events had direct control over your feelings and that you were helpless to resist. Now _that's_ crazy. Any good, modern therapist will tell you that events do not directly cause your feelings. If you spill your coffee in the morning, the spill does not directly make you mad. What does make people mad is their response to the event. I might respond to my spilled coffee with anger, with frustration, with self-blame, and with a howl at the universe itself over how it conspires to hold me back. Or I might see it as nothing of any particular concern at all, and regard the brief task of wiping it up as no different from the task of brushing my teeth or putting my shoes on. I do not howl at the universe when it's time to put on my shoes. I expect it, it's normal, it's OK. Well, spilling my coffee is the same; I expect it sometimes, it's normal, it's OK. This is a crucial thing to understand! If we can apply it to the little things, we can, with practice, apply it to the bigger things, too. Now of course this does not mean that we become passive in the face of events. If I spill my coffee, _I clean it up_, and if it happens over and over again I'll see what the cause is and I'll fix it. What I won't do is just put up with it, unless I absolutely have to. If someone is treating you poorly, they are not your master or your parent. Their opinion is their own, and their actions are their own, and what they think does not need to be of any particular importance to you. But by the same token, if someone is treating you poorly, set a boundary or step back, you don't need to put up with it, either.

Emotional abuse and stoicism

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Hi all, I recently went through a bad breakup and became interested in stoicism both as a means to cope with my situation and as a way to improve myself, but I would appreciate some advice for the future about how to approach relationships. I understand that feelings and emotions can be used to guide your actions provides that you understand you have control over your actions outcome, but how do you reconcile being able to love and care about your partner without having to rely on them. I've always thought that in a long term relationship partners should be able to have each others backs, and that without that there can't be trust. Is it possible to be able to trust a partner and have faith that they will support you even if they feel like you can't, and at the same time understand that such things are out of your control and still find contentment from that? It seems contradictory to me to both place that trust and accept the consequences of being wrong to do so.

Give it a try, it works for me and my wife. It is important to not make your happiness dependent on your partner or your relationship, because at the end of the day they are "external". You can somewhat influence your relationship but not your partner herself. On the other hand, if you practice virtue, your partner cannot fail you in terms of "support", because he/she doesn't know any better and you yourself have given it the best shot. The basic fact that it all is out of my control makes me appreciate it even more, every day. It is like seeing a loved person smile and you enjoy it so much, because this might be the very last time you see that person smile. Memento Mori.

Stoicism and love

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I have been going to counseling for about 2 years for various issues, many relating to my emotionally abusive toxic ex wife and PTSD from military and emergency service employment. Along my path of self improvement I discovered Stoicism, which I am reading is common among all of us. I brought up to my counselor that I was reading about various philosophies; she was encouraged by this and asked that I tell her about some that I found interesting. I said that Stoicism was really ringing with me, and the ideas were in sync with my feelings on life and such. She had quite the disapproving facial features. And just said oh. I quickly changed to talking about Buddhism. And the conversation continued without a hitch. Well over the past four or five months, I have studied more about Stoicism, read numerous books from the Epictetus, Seneca, and Marcus Aurelius. As I have implemented more of their lessons into my life, I have really found peace and balance. My counselor has been increasingly encouraged by my progress and even suggested that we decrease the frequency of appointments thanks to my progress. Instead of telling her that I am studying Stoicism. I simply paraphrase the quotes and lessons for her. Like saying that when a urge hits me, I try to detach from it. Analyze the source of the urge and what I hope to accomplish from said urge. Then choose to do it or something else which is actually productive. Productive over destructive choices, always push forward with self improvement. Each time she tells me how wonderful that it is or how amazing of an idea or advance technique this is. Without fail, she endorses the Stoic lessons and rules. Has anyone else experienced this? It seems that Stoicism is part of the base of modern therapy. Or maybe the misperception of Stoicism has caused a biased opinion towards Stoicism.

CBT was literally influenced by stoicism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy Read the history section

Modern therapy vs Stoicism

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In light of everything that's happening in the world, I find it hard to practice stoicism. Ever since I started to take interest on the subject, I discovered more ways to cope with my anxiety because it taught me to focus on the things I could control. To give an example, Epictetus said: "There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things which are beyond the power of our will.". I recently read about the injustice that has been occurring in China, particularly the "ethnic cleansing" of the Uighurs, and it has sparked an unquenchable rage in me that I could not control. It's pretty depressing how my will to good can never be a disposition to good, no matter how much I try to will it. Feeling powerless sucks and as much as I try to focus on the things I can control, the fact that I am completely powerless in the face of evil is killing me. With that said, how can we, as stoics, approach injustice?

Action against injustice is fine. Both Marcus, as emperor, and Seneca, as a senator, were deeply involved in the affairs of that world. What matters is that you do not make your virtue (or your happiness) depend on the fight or existence of injustice. edit: There is a caveat. I'm not familiar with any positive obligation in Stoicism to fight against injustice. I haven't read enough Seneca to say that with any certainty. I'm just extrapolating based on Seneca's and Marcus' *roles*, not referring to their writings. Epictetus says in Discourses 2.10.7-8 that if we follow philosophy we will be able to better fulfill our roles as sons, fathers, daughters, women, men, and *citizens*. If a component of your citizenship is the fight against injustice then I think that you then can derive a positive obligation from Epictetus. But, again, that's all just exegesis and speculation. Take it for what it's worth.

How can the stoics respond against modern injustice?

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Hello everyone! I am new to this subreddit and stoicism as a philosophy. Recently, i had quite a few series of panic episodes and i started seeing a therapist. I have since been diagnosed with general anxiety disorder. I have always been a little more stressed about seemingly mundane things but this stress is getting to me lately and hampering my productivity. I now find myself on edge with thoughts of life and death and purpose and even everyday things like studies and career. All of this makes me feel very muddled and confused and frankly, lost. I was wondering if anyone here could guide me towards adopting stoicism as a way of dealing with general anxiety. Something that helps me ground myself in the present, perhaps? I am reading the Enchiridion by Epictetus and am using it as a guide to calm my fear of death and it has been helpful so far. I still have a long way to go though and need help in staying the present and live a meaningful present. Lately, thoughts about the gone past and the unknown future have been plaguing me a lot. Any books, sayings, comments, suggestions, life stories would be helpful. Thank you :)

'No amount of guilt can change the past. No amount of anxiety can change the future.' I don't know where that saying comes from but that's a good one to remember.

Stoicism for dealing with anxiety

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I was struck today reading the Daily Stoic newsletter. I've been reading it for at least a year or more now, and have often found wisdom there , but also a lot of repetition or a meandering essay that might include a stoic thought but not really follow it through. Today the post was about not resigning to injustice, and the essay finished with: "Thankfully, it's unlikely to come to that today but that doesn't mean we can't take up their spirit and fight in our own way." This seems incredibly tone-deaf considering what's happening in the streets of the world today. Maybe this post was written months ago and they just drip-feed them out, so it's just bad timing, but even still, that statement caters only to those comfortable enough to not experience that tyranny even before pandemics and civil unrest. It's the most recent example I've found of reading that newsletter and finding an overall middle-road tone that isn't really engaging with the outer world we are faced with, stoicism as only mindfulness, in a way almost abdicating that duty to the community that Marcus Aurelius made such a point to express. Perhaps this is the result of trying to make stoicism and the Daily Stoic into clearly a business, which means the wheel of Content must always turn, churning out content based on that intent vs. a specific, intentional need to express. Something of a rant, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had this same reaction to the blog/newsletter/youtube series? (I say this as someone who really appreciated the work of this newsletter and it was an entry point to me working to live in stoicism, so the criticism is with love. I purchased their Amor Fati coin!) The post in question: [https://dailystoic.com/you-always-have-the-power-to-resist/](https://dailystoic.com/you-always-have-the-power-to-resist/)

I originally got into Stoicism via the William Irvine book many years ago, but as soon as I started just reading the original texts, I never went back to the modern-day explainers, contextualizers, anthologizers etc. I think you are correct that the incentives of living writers are unfortunately such that they need to put out content, and when you need to put out content, it won't always be gold. Time is the best filter for philosophy. These classics are still readable for good reason but I'm not so sure that current popularizations will make it into future history.

Daily Stoic - Watered-down Stoicism?

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Hey everyone. I'm new to stoicism and want to learn more about it to better myself. I'm reading meditations and going to read letters from a stoic. But I'm having trouble properly understanding the book It might be the language used or the way it's written. But has anyone else experienced this, if so do you have any advice for better understanding it?

For me, I found just reading a page or so at a time and contemplating what I read was key. Maybe even just one entry. But I wouldn't think you'd absorb anything if you read several pages at once.

Having some trouble reading Aurelius' meditations

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I am a Stoic but, also very interested in Japanese culture. Got around to reading about Bushido - come to the realization that it is quite similar to Stoicism's ideals in many respects. Living a life fueled by reason, absolute calm in the face of something frightening or negative, treating your enemies not like enemies, etc. (Aside from killing yourself to preserve honor). Have any of you read about this and what do you think of it? Have you tried to incorporate anything found in Bushido into your Stoic routines? Is there anything you disagree with?

Bushido, while distinct from Stoicism in how each culture expresses its own yearnings for perfection, has at its core the same beating heart: devotion to the Way. How the Way is followed differs; the end result does not: Stoicism teaches the path to freedom through accepting the present moment as it presents itself, and Bushido counsels a mind-set of acting in accordance with a single minded, pure will and intention, referred to as *ichinen,* resulting in the same. From Hagakure: `"All that matters is having single-minded purpose (ichinen) in the here and now. Life is an ongoing succession of "one will" at a time, each and every moment. A man who realizes this truth need not hurry to do, or seek, anything else anymore. Just live in the present with single-minded purpose. People forget this important truth, and keep seeking other things to accomplish." -Yamamoto Tsunetomo` The teachings are rife with similarities, each more profound than the last: `"For what prevents us from saying that the happy life is to have a mind that is free, lofty, fearless and steadfast - a mind that is placed beyond the reach of fear, beyond the reach of desire, that counts virtue the only good, baseness the only evil, and all else but a worthless mass of things, which come and go without increasing or diminishing the highest good, and neither subtract any part from the happy life nor add any part to it?" -Lucius Seneca` `"A mind free from thought (munen) is one that is pure with correct thought (shonen). Following the Way (michi) is to keep one's mind absolutely uncontaminated from evil, even in a single breath. It is not that there is no thought. The point is to have correct thoughts without letting evil thoughts manifest." -Tannen of Kodenji Temple` Other aspects of the Way are similarly relevant. Another such is selfless devotion. The Way was all about 'how to follow one's lord and ensure his success.' Replace the ideal of service to one's lord with service to virtue and boom, it's the same. Now, Bushido is, in true Japanese form, a highly stylized yet stripped-down to its core essence, minimalistic reflection of the pursuit of universal truth. Contrast Zen meditation "just sit" practices with the symbol-laden prayers of the Christian faith, and you'll have a good sense of the comparison I'm talking about here. They both point to the same thing in the end, and go about it in many similar ways. The form differs, the essence remains the same. `"Write each character without fear of tearing through the paper with your brush. The merits of the character can be decided by a calligraphy expert. Do not be discouraged just because it does not go well." -Yamamoto Tsunemoto` Bushido teachings also fall prey to many of the same limitations that Stoicism does. For example, the teachings of the Way have a tendency to rely on negatively-bounded principles that restrict rather than empower. `"Knowing the way is to know your own faults. Discovering your imperfections with endless introspection and to remedy them by spending your life training body and mind (shugyo), that is the Way." -Konan Osho of Soryuji Temple` This focus on "rooting out your problems" actually gives your problems more reality than they have. Focus on service, and the "I" becomes less of a problem. Focus on the light, embody it, and the darkness fades. Contemporary culture really likes to dive into the Shadow to try and find power and understanding, but it's not really necessary. Still, the road to self-mastery is the same, regardless of the culture: `"I do not know how to defeat others. All I know is the path to defeat myself. Today one must be better than yesterday, and tomorrow better than today. The pursuit of perfection is a lifelong question that has no end." -Yagyu Munenori` In the end, the only real difference is in how these cultures have decided to frame their choices and apply their energies in support of that frame. These systems of thought are direct representations of the respective collective experience; to one who knows the Way, they see it in all things. Truth is universal. Ignorance is not. `"Think of the life you have lived until now as over and, as a dead man, see what's left as a bonus and live it according to Nature. Love the hand that fate deals you and play it as your own, for what could be more fitting?" -Marcus Aurelius` `"The Way of the warrior is to be found in dying. If one is faced with two options of life or death, simply settle for death. It is not an especially difficult choice; just go forth and meet it confidently. This is the mind-set of one who firmly lives by the martial Way. Rehearse your death every morning and night. Only when you constantly live as though already a corpse (joju shinimi) will you be able to find freedom in the martial Way, and fulfill your duties without fault throughout your life." -Jocho`

Thoughts on Bushido?

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Hello! Hope you all are doing well today! A few months ago I got started into Stoicism but I haven't been taking it seriously. My friend bought me a book about stoicism, I think the name in English is "A Guide to the Good Life" by William B. Irvine. I want to read it and start getting serious on learning more and more about stoicism. What are some advices you could give someone who basically have just started learning about this? Could you recommend some videos, books, pages... That could help someone new into it learn more about stoicism? Thank you in advance! Have a good day!

[FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/faq) for this sub.

Any recommendations to get started into Stoicism?

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What exactly does Stoicism have to say about depression or anxiety? Are there resources for specific techniques? I know cognitive behavioral therapy is influenced by it, but I'm wondering from the Stoics themselves, whether they have specific approaches to depression and anxiety. I would also welcome modern psychology books influenced by the Stoics; I guess I'm just looking for something that doesn't address the everyday troubles we have, but can actually be used to get out of a state like depression (i.e. hopelessness, suicidality). It's hard for someone with depression or anxiety to use the dichotomy of control, let's say, because they attribute very little control to themselves to begin with.

Depression is a disease, and should be treated like one. Although it may certainly help, you can't cure heart disease or cancer with religion or philosophy. Just like how religion can't help a diabetic person create insulin. Our contextual understanding of health science has improved exponentially since the beginning of Stoicism. Medication exists if necessary, although it may be expensive and/or inaccessible. That being said, our mind is powerful. How beautiful is it that we have the capacity for imagination! We can create motivation. We can foster trust and love. As a psychology student, there are a few things that we're taught when it comes to recognising physical symptoms of depression. Address these first, where you can; 1. 6-8 hours of sleep per night, waking at roughly the same time. 2. Eat your required calories, preferably unprocessed. Avoid simple sugars. They're absorbed faster, causing rapid spikes in blood sugar, destabilising your mood. 3. Tend to yourself - brush your teeth, shower, wear clean (and loose) clothing. 4. Drink water. 5. Get a blood test to make sure you aren't deficient in key vitamins or minerals (Vit D, B6, B12, Iron). They can present with similar symptoms. 6. Exercise and sunlight. Going for a 10 minute walk 3x a day. Humans are meant to be moving and active. I understand that sometimes we just can't do things. I've felt it too. But you just need to get the ball rolling. I wish you the best. My messages are always open if you need someone to listen. Be well!

What exactly does Stoicism have to say about depression or anxiety? Are there resources for specific techniques?

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I'm pretty new to stoicism, but I really think it's a beautiful concept that could help me better myself. But right now, I have very few friends around and my best friend is treating me like a piece of garbage. So I'm constantly feeling like I've been wronged and can't stop being "dramatic" about it. I can't cut ties with her because she is one of the few people I truly trust. But at the same time, I feel like I'm simply done being treated this way despite the many times I've told her about it. So no matter which decision I make, I will feel great pain and the rational side of me cannot make the pain go away, not enough anyways. Yeah yeah, things could be better, I could be dead etc. etc., but that really doesn't help

Please know that negative emotions are part of life. Don't ignore them. Instead accept them with compassion. Find a quiet space, close your eyes, and let the negative emotions pass through you. As they approach, reason with them as they leave, thank them for reminding yourself you are a human that has feelings. We cannot control our environment but we can definitely change the way we respond by looking within ourselves first.

How to deal with negative emotions when they are constantly present and taking over, no matter how positively / rationally you think about them?

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I've recently been making the dive into Stoicism after reading a lot of books by Nassim Taleb and Jordan Peterson last year. I like the concept and ability to be content with the way things are, and understanding that there's a higher order within nature that our emotions often cloud us from seeing. I'm about halfway through Meditations now, and there's certainly a lot that has made me look at my life and the world differently and for the better. But when it comes to the parts about not wanting more in life, I just can't get behind it. It seems like something that's so easy to say when you were born rich, grew up rich, and lived rich your entire life. And that's when I realized that a lot of the stoic philosophers were in fact wealthy their entire lives. Choosing to forego luxury doesn't negate the fact that you once lived that life and doesn't change the fact you could return to it at any time. You always have that safety net, you never need to worry. I grew up poor and I have constantly sought to improve myself in life. It's the desire for more that keeps me improving each and every day. Better things, better experiences, to all around become a healthier, happier, and more successful person. And it's this progress that makes me happy, knowing that I'm in control of my life. And this is the human way. Self-actualisation is the greatest thing the human mind could strive for. So it's so easy for these philosophers to be content with nothing after living with everything. Has anybody else had this thought and how did you make sense of it?

Marcus dissociated himself from his former wealthy life. He sold a lot of his possessions to finance the roman army and other government institutions. He spent the last decade of his life living in military camps, - which are far away from beeing luxurious even in the 21st century. He passed laws that have been beneficial for women, children and slaves. This was very dangerous in fact, as it decreases the power of the man in the roman society. And we all know what happened if an roman politician upsets some important roman men. The problems that he faced were the antonine plague, floodings in rome and wars against various germanic tribes. I think he struggled enough despite beeing a wealthy man.

Does anyone stop to consider the fact that Marcus Aurelius and Seneca lived incredibly rich and privileged lives?

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Just a question I wanna throw out here, part of stoicism is sitting down once a day to meditate and think about life and its ways. What do you think about when you meditate?(if you do), I'm Curious to hear others meditation practices. For me I sit and think about all the hardships I have been through and try to see a life lesson in these hardships to gain from...which won't work for all things but majority of the time it does give me the opportunity to truly find joy in hardship.

I dont mediate. But today i sat outside for an hour whittling wood and listening to traditional Japanese instrumental music. I didnt think, i only did. This quarinteen has made me feel unbearably lonely, not because i cant go outside but because it has allowed me to realize during this calm and allowed me to think and realize i have very few people who care about me, and even less than very few who actually check on me, actually i cant even remember the last time somebody asked me how i am. This pain wont go away any time soon with any type of philosophy but being outside, putting all my attention into one thing allowed me to forget this heart aching pain im feeling. And even though i dont think ill ever meditate i do think i will allow myself time for doing, and not thinking more often

Do you meditate?

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I am fairly new to stoicism, I first discovered the practice of stoicism about 9 months ago and have been wanting to learn stoic principles ever since. I understand a majority of what is said and I take it into my daily life, but some things aren't mentioned as often as others. One of them is generosity, what role does generosity have in stoicism? Is it an optional thing that differs from person to person, or is it believed to be a way to further achieve virtue?

Personally, I don't like to think of it as "achieving virtue". It's logic. Generosity improves the society in which you live. This benefits you personally, since you live in that society. It's a win-win. Which makes it a "good" thing. Knowing that, gives you a sense of achievement, which in turn makes you happier, which is the end goal.

Where does generosity fall in stoicism?

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Reading a lot of these posts, a lot of them inspirational and insightful, it's amazing to see just how many people are reading, practicing and discussing about such an old philosophy. Made me wonder how have you gotten into stoicism? I'm really eager to find out, here's my little story. For a while now I've been interested in philosophy, reading and listening about it, but there was never a philosophy that completely resonated with me, at least not as much as stoicism. When i started going to university last year around october I started listening to a podcast called "Philosophize this" (which I have listened to in the past). I was listening to an episode about stoicism and soon realized that a lot of what stoics believe in is something that I do as well. Being an orthodox christian I always believed that everything is fate and that one of the keys to a virtuous life is the control of your emotions and how you react to different people and situations. Started reading some of Seneca's work, and really got into it. I really love stoicism, but I wouldn't call myself a stoic, not yet at least, I've got a lot more to learn before that can happen. Tell me your story!

My wife mentioned that all of my friends and even her friends really look up to me. That actually surprised me and I couldn't understand why because I felt like an average guy that hasn't accomplished anything significant. Somehow in my Google searches while trying to understand what I'm doing to gain that respect, I found stoicism and it was crazy how close it aligned to my values. I thought I was weird for taking so many things in stride (death, job changes, gentrification, people getting angry for seemingly no reason) and thought it was just because I was a history major and understood that these types of things have happened since forever. I was always good at focusing on what I can change and understanding what I cannot. I am also big on self improvement with career, health and trying new things. I just finished Meditations and now follow this sub and it has been so nice to have stoicism philosophy as a guide. Before I went with what felt right based on my values, talking with friends, and usually a lot of online research, but now I feel more confident making decisions myself because I realize I'm aligned with stoicism. I still have a lot to learn, but appreciate this sub!

How did you get in contact with stoicism?

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im new to stoicism and was reading The Enchiridion about how one should not care about things outside of ones control. I practiced this for a week and was really surprised seeing just how non-negative i was. I felt much free-er in my mind. But something happened recently. A couple of people made fun of me and i didnt react. i didnt even defend myself, i simply didnt care what they thought or said Later though, i regretted it. I realised that my reputation or value had decreased. My place in the social hierarchy had decreased as people thought of me as a pushover. I contemplated about how this affected the way people treated me and i realised that my respect did indeed decrease. i felt angry at those who made fun of me and also at myself for not saying anything. Then, i got to thinking of how to prevent this from happening again, ways to change the topic, witty comebacks and what not. I realised i was caring about something i did not have full control over Should i continue to seek reputation knowing that it isnt in my full control or should i try to not care. Maybe i could see my comebacks and ways to defend myself as something that are fully in my control but i feel like i would still be too attached to the final outcome i.e my reputation

Abraham Lincoln said that reputation is like a shadow. It's a byproduct of how you live so just do the best you can with what you have

To seek reputation or not to

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The third world presents intense and often demoralizing situations, making you feel helpless, depressed and anxious. I am 23yrs, working as a Junior Architect for a firm that pays me 200$ a month (yes you read that right, thats how much we get paid here. Admittedly, its really low even by India's standard, for a graduate.) This is because there are an incredible amount of people vying for that one job that the employer's can exploit the demand and supply channel. But my problem is not with the peanuts I get paid, its with the insane working hours that are chipping away my mental strength. We work 6 days a week from 10am to about 9-10pm regularly, and in case of emergency work, we pull off all nighters, sometimes 2 nights back to back. I feel this is nothing less than modern day slavery but I have no choice. I am very well aware that the job I hate is a dream for thousands here, who have none. And so do my employers, who threaten with firing (and do fire people) if any of us revolt. I try to stay positive and fresh but everyday seems like its trying to break me. I want to meditate,exercise, read a book and play a video game perhaps but I am extremely tired all the time. I am constantly looking for a new job but the economy was really bad here even before the Covid situation and after the lockdown and work from home, I think I will have to stay with my office for a long time. I am an atheist and an optimistic nihilist, and an avid fan of stoicism (read a lot during my college years) but my situation here is something I can't think possibly have peace and rest. Every morning I try to tell myself it's not that bad, you are surviving and you will. But honestly, right now, I really don't mind dying. I love to live, don't get me wrong. I hug my mother everyday and talk to her with whatever time I get, but the anxiety bodes over me all the time. Even in the office I try to joke around just try to enjoy my time there. I talk to myself to calm down, try to analyse the situation and accept it, but the pain never leaves. I just can't leave the job with absolutely no source of income from my side to help my family financially. My father works too but we definitely need more money. I am really helpless and distressed as I have mentioned perhaps a 100 times before, do you guys think there's a way out? I know some responses will be, stick there and you will find a way out, but honestly, I keep remembering Marcus Aurelius' quote regarding when if life gets too overwhelming, suicide is not a bad option.

My first thought is that you should really focus on Epictetus writings. He was literally a Slave Stoic. I'm sure digging into his writings could be enlightening to see how a slave used stoicism on the daily. Here are some pretty solid excerpts: https://movemequotes.com/epictetus-quotes-from-the-art-of-living/

Stoicism in the 3rd world? In need of dire help!

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So I was depressed for the good part of 6 years and then I came across stoicism. It's made me feel a lot better, made me understand values and morals and proper virtues and understand my emotions and a little about other people as well. It's made me a lot happier. However, yesterday I couldn't hold it in anymore and I lashed out and smashed up my outhouse, ripped the blinds off the wall and threw the printer and the hoover out the door and they broke. I knew I was having a bad day and I just wanted to print a photo of my great grandad (from ww1) out as it's been restored, but the printer said there's no paper when there was and I let it get to me, so I threw it, mum came in and shouted and said "you're just like Derrick (abusive ex-stepdad), and I just lost myself totally. I've been doing so well for so long and maybe it's a lot of things built up like a second lockdown (I live in the U.K) and it doesn't help being autistic I know, what can I do to be better? I really wanna be a better person and I don't wanna frighten my mum like that again, she phoned the police on me and the policeman sort of just spoke to me and understood me and made me feel like I was on his level, instead of talking down to me you know?

What you are doing now is one of the ways to get better, you are acknowledging what you did , you understand it's consequence and you want to stop scaring your mom again. Not only acknowledging what happens is a step, but also talking about it as you are now. There is power in verbalizing or typing your thoughts and feelings like you are right now. Some key points you bring up in your text, - Abusive ex step dad , has violence been present in your upbringing? - the corona situation is a test for everyone and already being alone or being in a weakened state of mind can make it tougher - you have been depressed for several years To me your behavior is perfectly normal based on the circumstances you are explaining, I understand that you don't want to feel or let go in this way and be destructive, I'm not sure about your perception about yourself on what happened I hope that you are not self loathing or criticizing yourself further into depression. It is what it is, you know what has happened, what do you think you can do about it? is it possible for you to think about actions you can do? Example actions I can think of. If your relationship with your mom is okay I think both of you would benefit from talking together about what happened, it sounds like you reminded her of past abuse which is the cause of her unfair blame on you for being as her ex. Seeking therapist counseling together about your relation and individual help for yourself is a great forum for guidance. I'm not sure how accessible or affordable mental health care is in the UK but I would recommend you to look into it. Stoicism is a great tool and outlook on life, and I urge you to continue to study the principles but I think you need to find someone to talk to, either a therapist, a friend or find a mentor. I wish you luck, sorry for not really answering your question I hope you find my thoughts valuable anyways

I've been doing so well.. apart from yesterday.

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I know it's really weird and dumb question. People like Elon musk or other entrepreneurs who are considered to be stoic or following stoicism partially, always stress on thinking long term like 10, 50, 100years but on contrary stoicism says "you can leave life right now(meditations)" or don't give too importance to future. So what's the point of thinking way far in future if stoicism is all about present? Please be easy on me stoics; I'm newbie in stoic philosophy.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit." Learn to take joy in the present knowing that your actions are made for the benefit of the future. Practice it. It's a skill. Practice generosity, kindness, forgiveness, giving rather than taking, creating rather than consuming. Find joy in those acts. Be kind and forgive yourself when you falter. Be better at it tomorrow than you are today. Take joy in the practice.

Why think long term when you have a short life?

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The past few months I've been studying a lot about Stoicism and how I can practice it in my life. I am beginning to uphold the 4 principles of Stoicism however there is one thing inside me that has been the real enemy, that is my emotion is somewhat immature. When speaking of immature emotion, I am relating this to the relationships I have with my parents and girlfriend. In some ways, I reacted quite similarly towards both of them whenever my needs are not met. This is mostly notable whenever I expect them to understand me, without I say what's troubling me. (This is usually the case for any couple and child-parents relationship). So here I am seeking knowledge and wisdom through the Stoic Ways on how can I change this. And how can I see strength in opening up and be vulnerable towards those I love.

'Begin each day by telling yourself: Today I shall be meeting with interference, ingratitude, insolence, disloyalty, ill-will, and selfishness - all of them due to the offenders' ignorance of what is good or evil. But for my part I have long perceived the nature of good and its nobility, the nature of evil and its meanness, and also the nature of the culprit himself, who is my brother (not in the physical sense, but as a fellow creature similarly endowed with reason and a share of the divine); therefore none of those things can injure me, for nobody can implicate me in what is degrading. Neither can I be angry with my brother or fall foul of him; for he and I were born to work together, like a man's two hands, feet or eyelids, or the upper and lower rows of his teeth. To obstruct each other is against Nature's law - and what is irritation or aversion but a form of obstruction.' - Marcus Aurelius

What is the Stoic solution to emotionally immature person?

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New to stoicism, After a life of trauma, I realised philosophy or religion are the only things that can take me through life. Never believed much in God and was always fascinated by philosophy. So all my life, I have worked hard, but was never appreciated. I was plagued by self doubt, self esteem issues. It's called complex trauma arising out of dysfunctional families. I have worked through most of the traumatic experiences. But I still have a strong need for the appreciation but nowhere to get it, does stoicism say anything about not need validation ?

I have a similar thing. I tried the traditional self-esteem route but it actually ended up making things worse. I started to develop panic attacks and fall into deep depressions. Stoicism is what saved my life. Stoicism taught me to abandon self-esteem and self-worth. And taught me to focus on being a good person. My wellbeing now is tied in to my virtue. My intentions, attempts, actions, and thoughts. It doesn't matter if I'm ugly or fat or hated or lonely or poor or worthy or unworthy or confident or meek or whatever. What matters is virtue. Virtue is actionable and powerful by itself. It requires no self-esteem. The mother duck that fights a massive predator to protect her babies has no self esteem in her mind. She only has what is right and wrong. And her babies dying is wrong. And she must be virtuous and protect her babies. Our strength, confidence and peace can come from that. From whether we are doing good things or not. And if you aren't virtuous then you logically wouldn't be happy and shouldn't be confident. It takes time and training but it works amazingly well. Self-esteem has been a corruption. An obsession with the ego and forever wondering if you are attractive enough or whether people will like you or not or whether you can get something or not. We must not live like that. We must live to do the right things, regardless of the consequences. If doing the right thing means someone will hate us, so be it. If doing the right thing means others won't help you, so be it. It's not a philosophy of convenience and easy pleasure. It's a path of virtue and righteousness.

How do stoics tend to needs like need for appreciation and validation ?

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Hi, im new to this subreddit and im starting to get into stoicism. I have a friend that has major problems with anxiety (not the social kind) and has had problems with thryoid hormones in the past. She worries so much about trivial stuff it turns into fullblown paranoia. In most cases its something she can control the outcome of. She cant even sleep at night becouse it bothers her so much. I gave her the usual advice "dont worry about things that are out of your control" but she just wont take it. She asked me to post this question. I am asking you guys for help to write her advice how would a stoic deal with this, dont be shy with length of text the more the merrier!

Someone else posted a comment on a similar thread so damn good I copied it: Stoicism has been helpful in the sense that it is a philosophy in which you are encouraged to identify what you know you logically need to do to live correctly and then do it, but it was never directly helpful in stopping the anxiety. What I mean is that the general Stoic philosophy of placing a space between stimulus and response really didn't help because I didn't have complete control over it. There was no direct stimulus that let to the anxiety response. What did help was identifying that I absolutely did need to commit to managing the disease with no allowable excuses. I knew alcohol exacerbated the disease, so I committed to quitting. I couldn't really control my immediate annoyance about not being able to drink, but I could control my response to that annoyance, which was to ignore it because that was the logical way forward. Over time, that annoyance faded as I refused to feed that emotion. I knew exercise moderated the disease, so I committed to doing it regularly. If I thought exercise sucked, I couldn't really directly control that, but I could control my response to that suck feeling, which was to do the exercise that I had planned anyway. If necessary, I could decide to research an exercise that I wouldn't think sucked for the next time, but the only logical choice forward was to do the exercise that I had planned. Otherwise I'd trick myself into not exercising at all. I knew that medication had the possibility of helping, so I went to a doctor. I was lucky in the the third one seems to be helping. If it didn't, I'd commit to seeking out other meds or treatments (like CBT). I knew that minfulness meditation could reduce the frequency of my anxiety snowballing into a full blown attack, so now I'm a hippie meditator because it's logically what I need to do to ensure that I am committing to the management of my disease. Finally, Stoicism allows an acknowledgement of an imperfect world. I probably will never be cured of my anxiety, All I can do is accept my fate and control the things that are within my ability control within that fate.

Advice for how to deal with anxiety without medication.

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Still new to Stoicism, but over the past year I've been trying to develop a stoic mindset over an ongoing personal difficulty. Some questions have occurred to me recently... Does stoic emotion-management ever become self-inflicted numbness? By refusing to be affected by (or avoiding situations which I know will elicit) undesirable emotions, am I reducing the richness of my life in a negative way? Most strong emotions (in my case, unrequited love) have both good and bad sides.. by disallowing them to dictate my mental state and behaviour, am I missing out on the good stuff? If not, how can I separate these? And if so, when is numbness better than the alternative? Sorry about the vague / poorly written questions.. I would appreciate any thoughts, or reading recommendations about related ideas.

The answer is not to numb your emotions, but manage them by changing your values. For example if I scratch my car and I'm attached to it, I'll be stressed. If I look at it in a "oh, it's just a car, these things happen, I just need to repair it" kind of way, there's neither stress nor numbness. Stoics moved their values completely to the realm of their own choices and judgments and stated that everything else is an external and indifferent. This way they weren't affected by anything they couldn't control. Of course this takes practice.

Emotion management or self-induced numbness - where's the line?

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Hello guys. I am a 19yr old living in Luxembourg. I started practicing Stoicism to cope with my anxiety 2 months ago, and the results have been very good! However, yesterday, my mom got phone calls from my uncle claiming that my mom burnt the skin of my cousin ( my mom removes hair from females as a part-time job ). He said they were going to the doctor to check out if it was burnt or an infection in the skin, and if it were burnt, they would call the police on us, which is very bad because my mom has a job, and she does this hair removal thing as a hobby without a diploma. The fact is, we've seen the photos of her skin and we are sure it is an infection and my mom had nothing to with it, but I just can't stop thinking about the final outcome, because my family doesn't get along well and they'll do anything to destroy our lives. We have already a hard time being immigrants. I know I should not focus on the outcome, and that always worked for small things in life but this one can be a disaster. What can I do? Please I really need some tips, because I've been dying from anxiety for the last day.

Wow - that sounds like a terrible situation. It sounds like there isn't much you can do yourself except to try to be strong. Hopefully, your uncle will back off. Just try to remember the only thing you can control, which would be your actions and your reactions to your uncle. He sounds like he is trying to upset you all on purpose. Try not to react to him.

I don't focus on the outcome, but the outcome can be very bad. HELP

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One of the main critiques of Stoicism is that "passions", in the general sense, are condemned. For example, "the sage does not feel sympathy: when his wife or his children die, he reflects that this event is no obstacle to his own virtue, and he does not suffer deeply." - Betrand Russell in *The History of Western Philosophy,* Chapter on Stoicism I understand that this way of thinking made perfect sense in the time of the Roman Empire, but how can we develop a modern adaptation of Stoicism that does not involve this intensely cynical element, or as Russell put it, a "coldness"? Stoicism has immensely helped me center myself, and find a sense of spiritual tranquility, but it does not account for *why* I should pursue my dreams in the face of uncertainty. For this, I have turned to existentialism-- most notably, Viktor Frankl-- but I am curious if any of you have interpreted Stoicism in a different way; A way in which passions, love, dreams, etc. are to be encouraged and held onto, while still respecting their impermanence. It's a practical philosophy, but right now, I need something more than what is practical. Any thoughts about the relation of Stoicism and the modern context of finding purpose would be appreciated.

I'd agree that it's an incomplete philosophy. Frankl is a good place to start. His logotherapy is very interesting. I have a friend from high school who is now a physiologist and uses Frankl method quite often.

Is Stoicism by itself an Incomplete Philosophy?

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16/M just started learning about Stoicism. I love reading, and I would like to ask this community to recommend me books about this mindset/lifestyle. Bonus if the books are not that hard to read and understand

The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius. Everyone always says it but it popular for a reason

New to Stoicism

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I'm reading Marcus Aurelius Meditations (this is my first approach to stoicism) and I have a question. I read the FAQs here and I think that the section about determinism and free will could have the answer, but I still can't get it and I need your help. As far as I've read, Marcus Aurelius says that men should live according to their nature, and he describes a general human nature that is good because it follows the "universal fate" (I don't know how to call it, I'm still new to this, but I hope you understand what I mean. It's related to determinism). For example, he says that a man is like a member of the body: he needs to cooperate with the other members (other men) to accomplish a general purpose (of this "fate"). My question is: evil men exist, and I suppose that this happens because their existence is necessary for the "final purpose". Hence, being evil is their nature needed by the universe. So, when in the book I read how Marcus Aurelius suggests how to become a virtous man, I'm confused: does he think that his concept of virtue is the "true one"? Or does he think that an evil man is virtuous because he follows his purpose in the universe? I hope this is not a stupid question, but I really couldn't get an answer. He seems to describe a perfect sage, but evil people also cooperate for a purpose, in their own way. I'm sorry about my English and I hope I was clear. Since I'm new to stoicism, I couldn't be more precise.

Living according to nature is living virtuously as you noted. That was because the Stoics viewed virtue (reason and morality) as what made humans, human. So "evil" persons, or people not living virtuous lives, are simply not following human nature fully. Epictetus even suggests they are following other animals natures, when they are obsessed with revenge, violence, sex, etc. Help?

Marcus Aurelius and living according to a "wrong" nature

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As a preface, I dont know a lot about Stoicism but I am a Buddhist, which I have heard share similar principles to Stoicism. I came across this individual who claims to have studied Stoicism for 5 years, which if true, paints a really bad image of Stoicism for me considering their behavior and way of handling differing opinions. First of all, the argument started when another individual was expressing sympathy for a woman who had began tearing up because a waitress had gotten her order wrong. In response, the individual in question claimed that she was being "way too sensitive" and that was when shit kinda hit the fan. Looking at their responses, they use a lot of personal attacks like "you clearly weren't loved enough as a child" to "you must have an inferiority complex" and just overall being extremely condescending to their opponents and undermining their arguments. Others have also expressed some doubts that this individual is truly a Stoic to which they responded by offering their own explanation of what Stoicism is. In their words, Stoicism is "not about suppressing emotion, it's about controlling it via reason." "If something doesn't make you a worse man, it can't be bad for you. Bad things happen, but it's your judgement of the pain that causes you pain, not the act itself. Stoics feel emotions, immensely so, and relish in positive emotion, but make an effort to change their perception of negative emotion." I dont know much about Stoicism, but this explanation is certainly what I perceived to be a core principle of the philosophy. From my perspective, it seems they are only using Stoicism as a sort of tool in an attempt to give them some... moral high ground I guess? There was no need for them to bring it up as the original argument was about whether or not the woman's reaction was appropriate. They just inserted their claim that they had studied psychology for 4 years at a university and Stoicism for 5 years. I see it as an attempt to give themselves more credibility. Claiming to be an avid Stoic in particular makes it seem like they want to be regarded as "holier than thou." They make no effort to acknowledge the opinion of the other party, but instead demean them for having it. Surely this is not how a Stoic should strive to act? I wanted to ask this for the purpose of learning more about Stoicism. I guess a benefit from coming across this individual sort of rekindled my interest in stoic philosophy. As a Buddhist, I was very surprised to see a self-proclaimed stoic act in this manner as I was under the impression that Buddhists and Stoics tend to avoid using personal attacks in arguments and make an effort to understand the other party. I hope you all can help me :) Edit: Thank you to everyone who responded to this post. They have all been very insightful!

I think the best advice I can give you is to check [our FAQ](http://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/faq) so you get a better idea about what Stoicism is about, so you can decide for yourself. There's a section about common misconceptions, and it includes the question about whether Stoicism advocates being hard-hearted or callous to others.

Person claims to have studied Stoicism for 5 years but is incredibly condescending. Is this how a Stoic should act?

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I think one of the hardest concepts in Stoicism for modern people to grasp (at least, it is for me), because it is so foreign to us, is the idea that how much effort we put toward a task and how much we care about the outcome of that task need not be at all correlated. This is, as I understand it, the idea behind preferred indifferents. For example: I may work very hard to get a promotion. The Stoics would be fine with this. If someone less qualified than me gets the promotion instead, however, the Stoics would say winning was a preferred indifferent, and so long as I tried my best I should not be disappointed that I lost (it may have been due to other factors outside my control). Modern culture might say that I'm then being complacent. The Stoics would say if I think the promotion decision was unfair and there is something I can do to correct the situation without violating any virtues, then I should still pursue that course of action. Modern culture would then say "Ah! So you do care about winning!" To which the Stoics would say "no, you are indifferent to whether or not you get the promotion" "Then why go to the effort to rectify the situation?" ...and so on. I find this concept very slippery. In a sense I should care a lot about preferred indifferents, because I should put very real and significant effort toward pursuing them. Often more so than the average person. Normally this would mean that I really care about the outcome, because why else would I be trying so hard? But no, I should be indifferent to the outcome. I think I get tripped up because modern language lacks a word for this. When I think to myself that I "care" about the outcome, that simultaneously implies that I will put in effort to achieve the outcome, but also that I will be negatively emotionally affected if I fail to achieve the outcome. Is there a word, or concept, to mean the former but not the latter? Said differently, if I am very motivated to work hard to achieve the outcome, while simultaneously being indifferent to whether or not I ultimately succeed in achieving the outcome, then I ~~care~~ about the outcome (what word or concept replaces care?).

My dad was the most Stoic person I knew (before I knew about Stoicism), and he had a word for the Stoic version, as I understand you anyway. He'd call it a "'druther." As in, "I'd rather / I druther get the promotion than not." And if not, well that's a bummer, especially if you worked hard. But seeing as it's just a 'druther and not a need or a hope, it's possible to attend to the next part of life without being distracted by what you missed. I imagine you're looking for a real word, but in my mind, the difference is in having a 'druther vs. having an emotional attachment to an outcome (ie, hope). Because it really is a difference, even if it sounds subtle.

Is there a word for the motivation that we should use to drive us to pursue preferred indifferents?

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Trying to improve ourselves in regards to the four cardinal virtues can be very hard at times. It's at those times when I ask myself why I am trying to hard to be virtuous. And I haven't been able to ground a good answer. What does Stoicism have to say about this? Why should we strive to be virtuous?

The first, and perhaps main, thing to note is that the Stoics actually give several answers to this question, not just one. That's because they stood downstream from a centuries old philosophical tradition that had already furnished many arguments, from different schools and perspectives, to support essentially the same conclusion. Indeed, virtually all ancient Greek and Roman schools of philosophy believed that we should strive to be virtuous, although the Epicureans had a somewhat ambivalent attitude toward virtue. So the bad news is that you're not going to get a comprehensive answer to your question in a short conversation because it's definitely too broad for that. The good news is that there are several simple arguments you can try to pick out of the Stoic literature. One is that as reasoning creatures we're already committed to using reason well and grasping truth and doing so optimally would lead to the virtue of wisdom. Then the Stoics will argue that the other virtues can be derived from that basic commitment to truth and wisdom. Another line of argument is that we typically admire virtues in other people and that it would therefore be inconsistent of us (hypocritical) not to aspire to the same qualities ourselves. A third line of argument (from Plato's Euthydemus) is that the things most people typically judge good or bad (health, wealth, reputation, etc.) can, on closer inspection be used for either good or evil, wisely or foolishly, and that what we really mean is that these things are good if used wisely, from which you can infer that it's actually the ability to use them wisely, i.e., the virtue of wisdom that's the good and that these other things are merely a means to an end, and therefore relatively "indifferent", or morally neutral, in themselves. There are, though, other lines of argument and, of course, many other supporting arguments, assumed by the Stoics or stated in their surviving literature.

According to Stoic philosophy, why should we strive to be virtuous?

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hello all! I am new to Stoicism, and am currently in the process of my first read-through of Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. I've struggled with assertiveness and setting boundaries in the past, and in reading Meditations, there was a passage that kind of raised some questions. In the third part of Book 4, when talking about complaints one might have in response to other people's misbehaviour, Aurelius says to consider: "- that doing what's right sometimes requires patience; - that no one does the wrong thing deliberately; - and the number of people who have feuded and envied and hated and fought and died and been buried" It essentially boils down to not confronting other's misbehaviour, but rather being patient and thinking about how such arguments are a waste of time in the big picture. I'm just not sure how I feel about this! Would this response apply to situations where people treat you unfairly or do things that you are uncomfortable with? My first thought would be that setting boundaries is something that is within your power to do in response to mistreatment, making it a Stoic response, but that is very different to what this section of Meditations proclaims! It is possible that my question may be addressed later in the text, but I was just curious if anyone in this community has any insights that might help me here

Marcus Aurelius wrote his meditations as a journal of advice for himself for specific situations he was dealing with as the Emperor of Rome, and this passage sounds to me like he is talking about exactly that. He explicitly did not even want the book published (which it was shortly after his death). Please keep in mind that nothing in there is meant as generalized life advice for *you*, or that you *must* follow it relative to the situations in your own life. If someone is violating your healthy personal boundaries, then patiently waiting for them to stop doing it without in any way communicating to them that you want them to stop will not succeed as a strategy. People sometimes violate other people's boundaries deliberately. Quite often really. Sometimes they do it on accident too or out of ignorance. In my opinion a stoic response would not be passively letting other people violate your boundaries. Instead it would be to clearly and assertively state your boundaries using nonviolent communication followed up with a request for the person to change their behavior **while accepting that they might not be willing to change their behavior**. The point of the communication is to hopefully convince them to see from your perspective that their actions are violating your healthy boundaries and then they will be willing to stop (out of respect for your shared humanity). These aren't "stoic" texts, but you might get a lot out of reading *Nonviolent Communication* by Marshall Rosenberg and *Codependent No More* by Melody Beattie. They seem pretty compatible with the stoic mindset in the sense that they teach you how to assert your needs and boundaries using communication while at the same time acknowledging that you cannot control other people.

what is a stoic way to set boundaries/address issues with others?

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so i am sitting and talking to this girl, we are having a good energetic conversation faced towards each other. this guy who is kinda of an alpha and sometimes-douchey, who i know for a fact seeks reputation and power , comes from the opposite side asking a question about our physics paper. the girl turns towards him to answer him, now her back is faced towards me, and i am expecting that this will be a short doubt. But it turns into a long discussion. 1-2 mins into their doubt-solving-convo, i have taken out a book and have started reading but i am still facing this girl bcuz i had adjusted my legs that way when i was talking to her. If i had moved my legs to the front it would have clearly looked like this guy just came in and stole the person i was talking to,so i just sat in a cross reading my book waiting for their convo to end. then this guy turns to me with a smirk and asks me to give him a pen to write the answer in his book. now this part makes no sense. clearly he can ask her, theres nothing i am doing that makes it seem like i would have a pen on me or that she wouldnt. i shrug to tell him i would have to look for it in my bag and the girl cuts me off before i do that to give the guy her pen. I feel like that was a power move by the guy. 1st by making me follow his order he would have set an unspoken authority-subordinate relationship and 2nd to make it acknowledged between us that the person i was talking to so energetically with just a few minutes ago ,was now not because she was talking to him. He left after 5-6mins and the girl turned to my direction again and my convo with her resumed. i know this seems over-analysing but i have seen this guy practice other malicious/not-straightforward tactics with other people to make himself look superior. He doesnt like to be underminded and likes attention and power along with reputation. What should have i done? I feel like i would have lost or felt lower in social standing had she not given him her pen, or if our conversation had not returned back after he left. What would have been a counter-move?should i have moved my legs back and faced in front to act as if i have moved on from the convo or whatever? should i have called him on asking me for a pen -but that would be too aggressive i think. what should have i done?? i feel like in these subtle psychological warfares where social hierarchies are formed sub-consciously in everybody's mind i find it difficult to assert my place properly. stoicism says i should care about things within my control and how i am treated or manipulated by others is something i can control something i can analyse and plan ahead to defend myself. following that line of thought, or arguing against it, i would appreciate any help any suggestion/advice is appreciated.

You can't control how you're treated, only how you respond to it. Your "social standing" in a group is something you can't control. You need to act virtuously and accept how your social group arranges itself. Chasing status is a very easy way to fall into vices while you try to fit in and be accepted. Seneca wrote "be in the crowd but not of the crowd", as social creatures we need to associate with people and do so virtuously, and always keep in mind that any social connection, recognition or status is an indifferent and you should not compromise your values to gain any of them.

controlling how i am treated

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I'm a very result oriented and a loss averse person, prone to abandoning tasks that I can't imagine going my way. It has caused me several losses but I'm unable to abandon the logic itself. It seems to me that putting effort in a project or person that is not beneficial is pointless and a waste of energy. This also confuses me when people have patience in times when they can't possibly imagine a positive outcome or only a very slim chance, given that they have through the possible outcomes and not just blocked them. What can stoicism tell me about this? Is my logic flawed and I should become process oriented than result oriented? Or simply a more realistic desire of the results is suitable? Thanks in advance!

>It seems to me that putting effort in a project or person that is not beneficial is pointless and a waste of energy. The end result of a symphony is silence and the end result of life is death, but the best symphonies aren't the ones played the fastest, and the best lives aren't the shortest. Eventually everything that exists will fade away to nothing. Not only is the happy life the one that is worth living for its own sake, but the idea that you can ultimately achieve anything OTHER than happiness or virtue is a temporal illusion. Everything fades to dust. If you're not doing things which are self-justifying, things which come out of you spontaneously, then you're by definition unsatisfied. If you have what you want, but you're unsatisfied with your state of activity, then you're unhappy. But if something is self-justifying, it's not something which benefits anything else, it's pointless from the perspective of anything else.

Result oriented vs Process oriented mindset

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Hello everyone, I have hesitated to express this question but I really would like to get your ideas on an issue. I am a highly interested but new stoic reader and have been going through a rough patch (loss of a family member, romantic relationship coming to an end after 8 years). I would like to get your opinion on something: I am about to finish my master's at a very good university in Germany (with average grades). I have worked a lot on my goals and made sacrifices by moving out of my country only for my studies, started work to pay the bills pretty young and worked on my CV from day 1 to get into one of the 3 big consulting firms. Sadly enough, I have even defined myself with these goals and gave everything to reach them with a big fat resume instead of sometimes preferring my own wellness and joy. Recently I have been applying for those positions and received immediate rejections, which devastated me. We get along in my small circle of friends, whereas some of them applied and got invited to these firms, although they didn't even know of them until recently and didn't even care for them. Although I am happy for my friends and want the best for them, I feel very disappointed in myself for being the only one in our long-time group, who has failed his ideal. Now, most of what we talk about are applications and I am drifting away from them. I know that early texts in stoicism condemn "comparing oneself to others" or "envy that can end up in resentment" but do you have any good advice for dealing with this disappointment? Or any good experiences? Thank you for your time

Everyone has their own pace and in the end, you will get there as well. What is happening to you is merely a test of your character. Be strong, both in mind and spirit. Do not let this circumstance define you as someone unworthy. You are.

How to deal with failing your dreams and having all your friends reach them

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As an avid book lover, practitioner of Stoicism, and a person who studied philosophy extensively, I think this subreddit would benefit from reviews of famous Stoic literature and other related books. The book reviews will not simply be a rehash of what is written in the texts but will try to give a glimpse to the author's intentions, thematic meaning and interpretation, what it teaches us about the Stoic tradition, and what can be criticised or questions we should ask ourselves. I'm about to finish Seneca's "Letters from a Stoic" or "Moral Letters" and so would be my first one.

I would very much like this. Im new.. just started reading enchiridion... The first half is a very days ready, tend to get bogged down after that as the points become more expanded and become a bit more cultural for that time. Have actually read first half a couple times and going to finish it off before j get too distracted again.. Really would be good to know what I should read next. Onxe I move out (trying to finalize divorce) I will have more free time to tear into stuff. Also been working my butt off to meet deadlines but likely losing job . Don't plan to take advantage of this extra time, also spend more time in the mountains.. maybe do both same time.. :)

Would people here like some reviews on Stoic texts and related literature?

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25 year old male here. I have been reading Stoic philosophy and it has resonated with me. It makes perfect sense when things are going well. But to practice it when things are going bad is the difficult part. Today I have an opportunity to practice it. I am a final year computer science student and there is a module I have worked hard. The final mark is 60% exam and 40% course work. Yesterday the professor screwed me over in the coursework viva for some minor error. I know that it is completely unjustified and I personally know people who haven't implemented half the stuff I did and still got better marks. Even he, in the end, admitted that a certain key feature in the CW has only been implemented by a few students including me but because I made this one error he will disregard an entire section of the coursework. And he asked me whether I helped anyone else with that difficult section. I told him that I might have pointed them to resources in learning that. And he said "that's your problem. You shouldn't give hints or help others in the final year. It's all a competition. The people you gave hints got 90s' while you get a B grade." At this point there is no other course of action. He is the only person who is specialized in that certain technology the cw is based on. The only thing that happens if I complain further is everyone else will be remarked and others will probably get lesser marks instead of my marks increasing. He is arrogant like that and will never change his mind. My grade is still salvageable depending on the exam marks and this is still out of my control since the exam is already over. Fighting him further will not help me. So, yesterday I was feeling the negative thoughts bombarding my mind on repeat. And I started feeling a painful sensation in my chest. I have recorded snippets of stoic wisdom and play these on my phone. So I understand that this is the nature of life. > Don't demand that things happen as you wish, but wish that they happen as they do happen, and you will go on well -Epictatus > >Only thing we can do is to make the best use of what is in our power and treat the rest in accordance with it's nature" - Epictetus > >what is under my control and what is not under my control. What I can do and what I cannot do - Epictetus > >good and bad things happen indiscriminately to good and bad alike. But death and life, success and failure, pain and pleasure, wealth and poverty, all these happen to good and bad alike, and they are neither noble nor shameful. - - Marcus Aurelius But even though I know this, I still find myself upset over it, or thoughts about it ruminating in my mind or that slight pain in the chest. And I was speaking to my mother today and I was irritable towards her. I feel that my mood is different. And that happens automatically even though I rationally know that there is no point being upset about something I have no control over. And naturally, I have a tendency to get a bit overly upset over stressful events happening in life which if unchecks develops into depression. I have gone to several psychologists since teenage years but they were not helpful. I feel that most of them are too technical and do not have a broader experience or idea about life. I recently found a more experienced psychologist but I cannot afford therapy right now. This particular incident is not too large to develop into a depression. But I realized how much my mental state is at the mercy of things outside of my control. Please help me use stoicism to develop more resilience in times when things don't go well.

__BREATHE__. Deep and slow. Remember that what others do speaks of them. How you react speaks of you. Remember that you are going to die someday, perhaps even tomorrow. If this were your last day on earth, would the present struggle truly be the most pressing thing in your life? Remember that the obstacle is the path. Every hardship and struggle is an opportunity for you to become a better person, to broaden your experience and train your mind. How you react, positively or negatively, will be reinforcement toward how you react in the future. Remember that no matter what happens __YOU WILL BE OKAY__. As long as you know so it will be so, even in the face of your inevitable death.

It is very difficult to practice stoicism when feeling depressed or when things are going bad.

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I'm a 16 year old male and i started to be interested in stoicism a year ago. Since then i've watched a lot of videos about the topic and i've even read parts of the encheiridion and kept up to date with "The Daily Stoic" by Ryan Holiday. I have a very unhappy life. I try to stay in a good mindset and apply stoic ideas to my everyday life. I also started journaling, meditating and working out daily couple of months ago. My psychologist recently ended therapy with me and i moved on to group therapy but still it's hard to feel well and live like i stoic while getting beaten and emotionaly abused by my family. I've broken up with my girlfriend wich means i have no emotional support anymore. Some days i lack the motivation to get out of bed and do elearning or my chores. I'm not depressed now but i think i was through out July and August of 2020. I was considering and still sometimes am considering suicide to this day. I don't know how to deal with all of this and sometimes find myself escaping this harsh reality by using alcohol and drugs. I'm quite worried about my well being and i really just want to be happy. It would be very nice if i could get any advice on what to do. Im very thankful for this community because it has already helped a lot. Thank you all. Im polish so english is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes.

> I've broken up with my girlfriend wich means i have no emotional support anymore. It is not one person's business to "support" the emotions of another. We each inhabit only our own minds, and control only our own desires. If having a girlfriend caused you to look to another person to manage your mind, then you are in a significantly improved situation for the lack of one - at least you are now thinking about the problem correctly, which is to say you are thinking "how might I be better?" rather than "how might I get another to manage my business for me". > I don't know how to deal with all of this and sometimes find myself escaping this harsh reality by using alcohol and drugs But of course, these don't help you. If you could escape that harsh reality with drugs (and alcohol is "drugs") then you'd not be here, you'd be escaped. Of course, drugs don't make your problems better - if you are incredibly sad and you take drugs, you are now incredibly sad and high, and then you are incredibly sad on and on a comedown, both of which are significantly worse than simply being as sad as you were before. What is more, owing to the dopaminergic effect of the drug, when you take the drug it induces a craving to try and solve the problem you are trying to solve with more of the drug. When the drug actually hurts the problem you are trying to solve, this creates a pathological and endless cycle of substance abuse we call "drug addiction". So there is an obvious first step - quit the drugs. However unwell you feel, you will feel slightly less unwell whilst sober, which means you will have at-least *some* additional mental resources to dedicate to managing your mood effectively. Now it's key to note there are a lot of positive signs from you. You are thinking ineffectively about drugs and relationships, but frankly, you're on a stoicism forum and you've recognized that you can likely think your way out of these problems, which means you are thinking more logically and correctly about your mental health than most people. You should be proud of that given that you are only 16 - many adults are not so aware, and frankly thinking irrationally about drugs and relationships is almost the defining trait of teenagers. See where you get to when any tendency to use drugs is dispensed with. You may find this alone puts you back into the normal process of "heal and move on". If it does not, I'd consider formalising your study of stoicism with a journal - writing down your contemplations on the things you read in The Daily Stoic, as well as writing down any difficulties you encounter during the day and devising stoic "remedies" for them, is often a highly effective tool when it comes to belief change.

A Hard Life

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Is Stoicism really about removing anger? Does Stoicism see anger as merely a feeling or a physical reaction? There is a quote which I've posted once (which I won't include for now) and there's a lot of feedback on a Stoicism book on Facebook where people believe that Seneca means that we ought to remove it entirely, whereas others believe that Seneca didn't mean that. My understanding is that we can't control anger but we can chose to not act accordingly, and Stoicism isn't about removing any emotion but domesticating it and reasoning with corresponding impressions as to brjnf relief. Yet, too many people think its about removing and preventing. What do you think? Could anyone clear it out?

Anger is a destructive emotion that should be expunged. Feeling anger leads to a physical reaction, so the answer to your question is yes. Seneca wrote a book about expunging anger. As Buddha correctly states, "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die." Expunging destructive emotions (like anger, hate, and fear) will shift your emotional spectrum to positive emotions (joy, love and happiness). You do this by withholding judgement about what might otherwise lead to your anger. Don't assume the worst or take things personally. Nothing can "make" you angry. It requires your consent. If external things "make" you feel a certain way, then you are a slave (as Epictetus would say) to those things. You are not free. You free yourself by learning to control yourself. It's not about suppressing destructive emotions. You learn to not feel those emotions --or at least that's the goal. Good Luck!

Stoic approach for anger

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Hello dear community, I've started with stoicism about 6 months ago reading Seneca and Marcus Aurelius, 2 months ago I started Journaling my Stoic and overall experience of the day the morning after, I'm also reading a page of the daily Stoic while journaling I practice to view my days as separate lifes and think about them every evening and what I'll take into the "next life" tomorrow, this was a great addition to my life because it made me review and reevaluate a lot of day to day routines Now during working days I start my day around 3:30am working from home until the wife and my son wakes up at around 6:00 am, after preparing breakfast I sit down and write my journal for the past day I tried journaling on the evenings but I couldn't stick to it so the morning fits me better, however maybe because of a few hours sleep and being occupied already with 2 hours work I just feel like journaling doesn't give me much value. There are days where I don't know what I should write down from yesterday and can't really see the practical meaning in the daily Stoic, it tends to become something I have to do rather then want to do because I don't really see a meaning in it. However I know that journaling helps me a lot on different things already, because I do it for different subjects on a weekly or daily basis. But with a journal for practicing stoicism.. I guess I just haven't found my way Anyone here has a good journaling habit or any other good experience with journaling for this Stoic endeavor? I would love to hear about that, what questions do you ask yourself, do you implement daily exercise? I really would like to hear your ideas While writing this post I thought about making a weekly instead of a daily journal and just do one exercise a week everyday and write one paragraph per day how I did and how I felt with it.. Maybe this is something worth trying as well Anyway, I'm looking forward to your response

I tend to stick to these points ensuring I end on a high note and get the worst things out of the way first : Did I achieve the majority of my intension yesterday (accountability) What went badly? What went well? Did anything go wrong outside of my control? If yes let it go. What am I grateful for? I then also have a list of today's intension against it.

How to journal with stoicism

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Hi, i'm new to stoicism, but recently i've been thinking about what it would be like to lose everything. My family, home, dogs, friends, etc. Or even just one of these things. When i think about this, I immediately push away the thoughts and try to convince myself that there's no way this will ever happen, not right now. Does this mean i'm too attached to things. Epictetus and other philosophers talk a lot about how you only need yourself to be happy. These things, family, friends, etc, will be meant to go when the time is right. But how does one even think like that. If you imagine someone in your family dying, I can't, for one second think I would say, "it is what it is. This thing is not bad, my judgement is. They will leave this earth and return to their rightful home." Is this the wrong way to think?

In treating anxiety, cognitive behavioral therapists^^^1 sometimes ask patients "And then what?" That is, they ask people to imagine what is likely to happen *after* the crisis that drives their negative rumination. The reason: For many people, the imagination tends to run up to the worst moment of the imagined scenario (metaphor: the tsunami is juuust about to overwhelm the seawall) and then just freeze, or replay on repeat, so the person is left with a constant vision of disaster. Getting people to think consciously through the likely aftermath is a way to weaken this tendency. This is an example of [decatastrophizing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decatastrophizing). A good article with more examples is: https://positivepsychology.com/catastrophizing/ ^^^1 As is often pointed out, [CBT is Stoicism-inspired](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy#Philosophical_roots).

Imagining the death of loved ones

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Hey all, I'm learning about stoicism and had this question that I can't seem to adequately answer. I understand that sex is a preferred indifferent in stoicism, a natural occurance that can be enjoyed insofar as it doesn't turn into a vice. I also believe that there is nothing inherently wrong with kink/BDSM and that our specific preferences are often out of our control. However, I wonder if it would be within stoic doctine to indulge in kinky sex and to explore various sex acts and to find out what is most pleasurable to us. Of course, it would be a reasonable amount of times per week, and not harmful to oneself or their partner and would be consensual. Is this act of exploring and seeking pleasure inherently anti-stoic? How does a person wanting to apply stoicism in their lives deal with their sexual preferences? Would it be virtuous to limit our exploration? Is it possible to explore kink/BDSM while doing it stoically? I know these are loaded questions and I appreciate the time taken to answer them. Cheers!

Stoicism is a philosophy.. not a religious cult.

Stoicism and kinky sex

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I'm assuming anyone that is actively involved in this sub thinks Stoicism is worth practicing. I also understand the views of people who don't understand Stoicism and think that it's unemotional, unfeeling, etc. I'm wondering about people who have practiced Stoicism and made progress, but ultimately decided that it's not a good way to live. Anyone?

Consider stoicism as a state of mind, and that perhaps gives a better idea as to how you should approach your question. If you practice it correctly then you will have a good life regardless of the circumstances which surround you, and anyone, no matter their opinions, will see that this is a good way to spend your days. If you have a stoic outlook on life and live according to these principles then there is no reason to say that this isn't a good way to live. However, what if you are someone whose ideas conflict with the philosophy. What if you naturally find peace of mind by another method? Then we might conclude that stoicism isn't for you. That isn't to say it's not a good way to live, however perhaps for many it is a way of existing which they find uncomfortable. Most schools of thought try and guide you through how to live your life, and although they may have different methods, the ultimate goal of inner peace, completeness and so on is the same regardless of the approach. So yes, Stoicism is a good way to live your life, if you are able to, if you are driven down a different path then stoicism is still a good way to live, just not for you personally. I gave it a shot, not sure how much of this you agree with (if any at all haha) but I thought I'd have my say.

Do you know anyone that has concluded Stoicism isn't a good way to live?

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I work pretty hard at school and since it's my last year I've got loads of work to do. I'm meant to do 3 Jiu jitsu classes a week, but because of all my work, I've been too busy, or on the days where I'm not busy, I'm too tired. I eat healthily and I lift weights three times a week so I'm not tired because I'm unhealthy (although a lack of BJJ will impact my cardio but I've started running once a week) - it's entirely due to school. My mate that I train with has managed to go to every class without trouble, so I feel like I should be able to do the same. From what I've learnt about stoicism so far, I believe it would be more virtuous for me to push myself through the tiredness and maintain my discipline in training (I know that rest can be virtuous, I just feel like I'm being a pussy - for lack of a better word - because my mate can find the energy to train, so I should be able to). I've learnt that I should be urgent in the bettering of myself (memento Mori and all that) so I feel like if I don't train now then I might lose the opportunity in the future, which is weighing pretty heavily on me, but also I feel like taking this year easy to focus on my grades (whilst also keeping myself healthy of course) may be a better course of action. I genuinely can't figure out which of these two paths would be more virtuous. Can someone offer me a stoic perspective on this/advice?

Don't compare yourself to others. You don't know your friends situation and he is not you. He may be struggling in other ways or neglecting his school work, you don't have insight into every aspect. Focus on yourself. You are extremely young and have plenty of time to do whatever you want. Don't overcomplicate this. Recognize in the grand scheme of things these aren't the biggest problems. I know that's hard when you're young and everything feels like a big deal but its really not. Your grades impact funding for college and college options. Make sure they are in order, and that you get 7-8 hours of sleep. Outside of that fit in whatever you want, but grades and sleep should always come first, at least until you finish college. Just my 2 cents...

I'm in my last year of high school, I just started practicing stoicism and I need some advice

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I'm fairly new here so this might stem from misunderstanding, but isn't Stoicism very focused on "me" rather than also those we love and care about? I'd appreciate some clarification very much. Thanks

Stoicism is very much rooted in concern and care for the wider world, at least directly the community and possibly more broadly the country lived in. And this starts with the individual: living a virtuous life in accordance to your own nature, leads to a more balanced and fruitful life, which benefits those around you.

Isn't Stoicism highly individualistic?

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Hi everyone, so tho post was kind of hard for me to finally bring up but I've been following Stoicism for about a year now. Don't get me wrong I'm happy not to explode at everything and feel so down on myself but now I just feel so empty inside. Has anyone gotten through this who can give no some advice to feel better. I feel as if I'm a ghost in a shell who doesn't care about anything anymore.

You don't care about aiming to be virtuous?

Feeling empty

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I've posted the Epictetus quote "it's not things that upset us, but our judgement about things" in front of my desk to remind myself each day, and that hopefully over time, I will continue to grow in this mindset. I absolutely hate the position I am in. I have an extremely boring office job, where I feel that I just push papers around all day and I do literally nothing meaningful for myself or purposeful. The job just makes me feel empty and each hour I am incessantly thinking about all the things I could be doing to better myself and my life. Long story short, I am pushing 30 years old and I am finally In a program to get my bachelor's degree. I spent the longer part of my 20s having no idea what I wanted to do with my life, as well as suffering through anxiety and depression and generally trying to find out who I am. I received an AFA in Fine Art in 2015 but realized I couldn't make money nor was I happy with the chosen field for various reasons. So here I am, with my goal to get my degree by next summer or fall 2021, and finally get into the career that I want to be in yet. Yet, it feel so incredibly far away and my desperation grows every single day to get out of this place. It's a mixture of both the work and the people and it's all just a combined terrible experience. the only reason I am still here is because the pay is not bad and I can work less than 40 hours due to school. How do I stop looking at my degree as a means to an end through practicing stoicism? How do I find contentment in the present and know that my place is so absolutely tiny in the cosmos? I find myself comparing every bit of my life to every around that seems remotely happy or successful. I always seem to fall short. There are days when I can truly understand the words of Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus, and I feel it within in. But when my Ego within starts growing and negativity flows, it takes me days and sometimes weeks to get back to a proper state of mind. Personal wisdom and experience is welcome. Thank you.

Stoicism would probably argue that the pain of doing a job you hate as you get your degree would prepare you well for challenges in the career you want. In a less stoic note- I've been in a similar situation. Just keep going- your doing a good thing in developing yourself and getting a degree and your job will be a good experience in addition if not just a means of making money as you study.

As a (new) practitioner of stoicism, how can I learn to be content in my current job that I completely loathe?

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I'm quite new to the teachings of Stoicism and I was wondering what the prescribed response would be to an injustice that has been committed against you by an authority, that entirely was not in your control, but could be ensured against happening in the future with action. What I had in mind is a situation in which an authority of some kind imposes an unfair restraint or penalty upon you, that based on Stoic teachings, you should not worry about since it is not in your control. But, suppose that it is also possible with organized and collective action against the actions of the authority to ensure that an injustice like this doesn't happen to anyone in the future (my thoughts on this are along the lines of organizing protests to bring awareness to the injustice with an ultimate goal of having that action disbanded of). Morally, this sounds like a valid reason to take action and continue to "worry" about it because you aren't necessarily trying to rectify your own situation, but rather trying to reduce the suffering of others in the future with the same fate. It would, though, take a lot of time, stress, and "worry" to make the protests successful in altering the actions of the authority, and the number one rule of Stoicism seems to be "don't worry about what you cannot control". I was wondering, then, if the Stoics have any insight on such a situation? As a Stoic, is it better to accept your fate and not worry about taking action to change the future actions of the authority, or is it recommended in this circumstance as you are also working to reduce the suffering of others? I appreciate any feedback anyone can give me! This is just a silly hypothetical I was considering while laying in bed, so I hope it makes sense.

I find [Christopher Gill's summary on Stoic beliefs](https://stoicpsychology.buzzsprout.com/295505/2232794-episode-13-interview-with-christopher-gill) to be very helpful: * Our happiness depends on us, and we achieve happiness by developing the virtues (wisdom, courage, self-control, justice). * All human beings are fundamentally capable of developing the virtues and making progress towards virtues and happiness. * The development of the virtues transforms the quality of one's emotional life and relationships with other people. * Humans are by nature both social and rational. Ethical development carries with it the deepening and expansion of social and interpersonal relationships, both localized and generalized (cosmopolitanism). * Humans are an integral part of the cosmos, which is unified, ordered, and providential. Development is a matter of coming to understand one's place in the world and thus, learning to live a life most natural for a human being. (Full disclosure, as an atheist I dismiss the idea of a divine cosmos for lack of evidence, but it is what the ancient Stoics believed). As a student of Stoicism, you'll want to develop your character along the lines of the virtues. Arguably, one cannot do that while ignoring the needs and sufferings of others. Selfishness and reclusiveness are not the marks of Stoicism, nor is it a deontological ethical philosophy. Concern for the well being of others, and apportioning our resources and care is at the root of Stoic ethics. The concept is known as oikeiosis, and you can read more about it [here](https://dailystoic.com/oikeiosis/). The part about worrying about what is in your control and what is not comes later, after you have thoroughly analyzed your impression of the events and problems, made sure your personal assumptions and emotions are not clouding reason, and have come to a understanding of the event that most accurately reflects reality, that is, without personal value judgement attached. Only then can you start to work the problem rationally. In order to do this you need to be objective in your approach. To be objective includes recognizing what you can affect, and what is dependent only upon you, and what things will happen whether or not you plan for them. In other words, what you can control and what you can't. The reason you don't worry about what you can't control is because complaining and rumination does no good. It is a kind of mental Turkish Delight that keeps one distracted with the temporary gratification of feeling righteous. And when that Turkish Delight has been taken away, when one realizes things won't happen the way it is \[desperately\] wanted, it can be a crushing emotional blow. You should make sure your reasons are defensible, otherwise you are simply fighting for what you want, and Stoicism does not argue for that. In these things, you must be wise, or you run the risk of fighting for the wrong thing inadvertently. It's not enough to trust your feelings or gut or persuasive arguments you hear, you must be ruthless in your self-reflection. If you have a trusted friend you can work out your argument with, a friend who will let you know when you are appealing to a [logical fallacy](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/) is invaluable. We all have cognitive blind spots, a trusted person who can tell you what yours are without worry for making you feel defensive is paramount I think, for even those who fought on the wrong side of history genuinely believed they were doing the right thing. When you decide what the appropriate response to your experience is, keep in mind that many things will come and threaten your deeply held assumptions. You might be accused of being a trouble maker, or disingenuous in your motivations, or guilty of ignoring other, more important issues, or you might be the target of unjustified violence in the hopes of scaring you away. Marcus Aurelius suggests that when these attacks on your character and on your well being are made, try not to take it personally. If you can, think of it as a kind of training at the gym that functions to give you the knowledge and experience to use the learned skills in the real world. >In the gymnastic exercises suppose that a man has torn thee with his nails, and by dashing against thy head has inflicted a wound. Well, we neither show any signs of vexation, nor are we offended, nor do we suspect him afterwards as a treacherous fellow; and yet we are on our guard against him, not however as an enemy, nor yet with suspicion, but we quietly get out of his way. Something like this let thy behaviour be in all the other parts of life; let us overlook many things in those who are like antagonists in the gymnasium. For it is in our power, as I said, to get out of the way, and to have no suspicion nor hatred. Meditations 6.20

How ought a Stoic act in the face of injustice?

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I expect many of you had the same experience, that "discovering" stoicism merely reinforced many ideas and concepts that already existed in your mind. One of the earliest and more impactful for me was that I quit reading the news - I reached the conclusion that the events I was reading about were outside of my control and knowing about them was doing nothing but upsetting me. That was around 5 years ago and I can tell you that not keeping up with the news has had zero impact on my ability to live my life or make solid decisions. Has anybody else found the same?

Yes, I gave up televised news years ago and read very little news now. As Henry David Thoreau one said about news, "It's just gossip." News today isn't to inform us but to manipulate us to vote or to purchase instrumental good. I wonder how many Fox News watchers bought guns last year due to fear manifested from their stories.

How has a stoic mindset affected your consumption of the news?

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I've been practising Stoicism for about a year now and follow all of its ideas as strongly as I can. However, right now I'm dealing with a massive lack of motivation. I don't seem to have a drive to do anything. I feel bored frequently and end up sitting around aimlessly as nothing seems to be captivating for me. I end up just feeling tired and unmotivated all of the time. Does anyone have any advice here? It would be greatly appreciated.

There's a series of simple exercises called "The Five Tibetans" - this is a great place to start. The exercises shake up lymph and brain/spinal fluids. Lots of versions are on YouTube. Turning on music you like and just letting yourself dance like crazy also helps relieve depression.

Extreme lack of motivation

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