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I've been reading alot recently about stoicism and tried a negative visualization exercise yesterday, but have a few questions on how exactly to go about it. 1. Should I think about multiple things in one session or really focus in on one thing? 2. How often should I do it, is it too much to do it daily? 3. How exactly should I think about things, should I focus on how I would feel or more on what I would lose in a negative outcome? Any tips would be appreciated just want to get the most out of the practice.

The point of negative visualization is to get to the feeling of gratitude, we do this by using the comparing mind, so we visualize something bad and then switch to gratitude for what we have So a classic visualization is to imagine being blind and then opening your eyes and being grateful for sight, the point is to touch on being blind not to linger on the experience. You linger in the joy of sight, hope this helps.

Negative Visualisation

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I've been learning about stoicism for a few years now and I like the philosophy. I'm certain it has helped me to an extent, but when shit hits the fan, I find it almost impossible to behave as I'd like to. Let's take worrying for example. Say that I've screwed up at work and there's a board meeting about my future, whether I'm being let go or not. I've done the afterwork already: apologized, explained etc. There's nothing for me to do anymore. I know worrying won't help me. I know it's not in my hands anymore. I know that it's not the end of the world and that I'm nothing but a spec of dust and a blink of an eye in history. I agree with all that and it's the advice I pass on to friends and family when they worry about something. But I still worry. I'm anxious as hell in a situation like that. I just can't help it. No matter of logic makes me cool as a cucumber here. Smaller challenges is life I'm usually fine with (possibly with the help of stoicism), and I don't think I'm out of the ordinary in terms of my worrying. Most of my friends agree that the example of possibly losing one's job is something that would worry them too. I just wonder if some of you are able to stay calm in real, shit hits the fan, situations too. For me it's easy in theory, but so much harder in practice.

I success at everything except bravery. I'm often driven by fears and worries. (To an irrational extend to spit the truth.) I can make decisions against my personal benefit, I can confidently claim to not follow any materialistic needs, I regard justice as a duty, but I fail at accepting physical and especially mental suffering. Something inside of me always wants to keep fighting, even when I know that there is absolutely no way of changing the situation. I'm free, I'm just, I'm helpful, but I'm a wimp.

Does anyone else struggle with applying stoicism in practice?

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Hey, guys. I recently became an atheist and have been going through an absolute nightmare of existential crisis. I used to have dreams and ambitions of wanting to be successful, rich and make the world a better place for the future generations. Now, I think that even if I become rich, I'll eventually die and everyone dies and what I do will matter maybe a few years and then won't. I overthink all day about this. Two days ago, I came upon a quote by Marcus Aurelius and got hooked to stoicism. So, any advice for my situation? Can I not be a stoic (forgive me if I haven't worded it right) if I am atheist? What do you guys believe in generally? (Or lack of belief in)

\> I'll eventually die and everyone dies and what I do will matter maybe a few years and then won't. this was true when you were religious, as well. \> I overthink all day about this. you may need to see a doctor if this is interfering with your life. \> Can I not be a stoic if I am atheist? yes you can. stoicism fits with many religious beliefs, or none, and also with other life stances. most modern stoics ignore the little bit of woo that is in some of the ancient writings. \> What do you guys believe in generally? (Or lack of belief in) okay, now i'm just speaking for myself. i am atheist, materialist, and humanist, and try to be stoic.

Existential crisis ever since becoming atheist

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When I wash my hands, climb stairs, or cook, all I think about is my to-do list or a past event and it makes me stressful or nostological. I find that I can not appreciate the present, do you have any advice Also, I recently discovered stoicism, does stoicism have any recommendations on what to focus

being aware of your thoughts. focused on being effective toward your goals. taking time before your day starts to center self and determine what really needs to be done: Journaling, centered breathing, embracing a sense of slowness (this is contradictory to intuition because we become more effective and productive this way). for inspiration check out the Daily Stoic podcast or website. it's not perfect (but it doesn't need to be either)

How to stop thinking about your to-do list or past event

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Due to recent events in my life, my life is thrown into chaos. I lost my balance in my life, my friends, and my work. I have stumbled upon this subreddit and started looking on information regarding this philosophy. To give a background, I got engaged and broken up a couple of weeks ago. I'm in the position where I am left, felt used, hurt, and angry at the person. I don't want to spiral down into self-pity and self-destruction, but at the same time I know myself that this is going to be a process that I have to go through. One thing about stoicism is about letting go and letting go of the things that I can't control. So my question is where do I begin?

Marcus Aurelius, Meditations is a good book to start. Understand what he says and recommends, not just fly over it

Where to start the practice of Stoicism?

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Hi, I'm looking for a good audiobook for a person (me) that is interested into getting into stoicism. But before I dive into Meditations and Epictetus, I'd like to listen to some "modern" take summarizing and talking about stoicism as a whole. I'm not native english speaker, so I'm looking for something not extremely technical / academical. Any suggestions please?

The total beginner can start with the Enchiridion (literally handbook) of Epictetus. It's very short. 53 passages. I don't know if there's an audiobook version. I'd try to find an audiobook of How to be a stoic by massimo pigliucci. Or find his podcast for brief reflections. Also, there are some fantastic podcast interviews of Gregory Sadler, Donald Robertson, and Massimo pigliucci I recommend (you can just search their names and episodes from multiple producers will pop up).

First audiobook for total begginer

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Before I proceed, I would like to clarify that I myself I'm an immigrant too, who moved to a Western European country mainly for studies, followed by a permanent contract, and I can assure you that these last 3 years have been the hardest of my life. I went through chronic depression for the last 10 years, and it was only after my whole struggle, with not only studies, but also money and family. To cut my personal story short, I couldn't help but notice that as soon as I landed in Europe, I kept noticing the same pattern relating itself again and again. The socialist country that I live in brings great benefits to those in need. That I do totally understand and I completely agree with. What I really don't understand and actually feel disgusted by is the fact that immigrants tend to get a lot of children and go jobless and get more than enough money from the government just by repeating the same process for years, before you shut me down, I've noticed this firsthand, not just by my close family, who actually did the exact thing that I've mentioned, but also from most of neighbors (I live in a poor neighborhood) who told me this themselves. I have been struggling with this issues for a very long time now, I did travel to other countries throughout my studies, including a semester abroad in a Nordic country, in which I got to exchange with a lot foreign students and immigrants, and noticed that their mind views really inclined with mine. As someone who has been reading about stoicism for the last 2 years and actually found it very helpful to let go of my own ego and selfish needs and accept others for their flaws, I really find it hard to accept this and I just keep growing and feeding this hatred inside of me towards my own kin, any thoughts would be really really appreciated. Thank you for reading.

It doesn't concern you, what other people do. Even if what they do, is to you, "bad". Why think of it?

How do I apply stoicism towards my fellow immigrants knowing that I'm mostly disgusted by their behaviour

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As a newcomer to Stoicism I wonder: Marcus Aurelius speaks in Meditations about recognising the divinity that lies within us and to take refuge in it. Then he speaks about the body (which he seems to cast aside as something impure), the soul (which is moved by passions) and the intellect or reason. But I am not entirely sure to which part Marcus adscribes this divinity within. If it is to reason itself, that would be an interesting contrast with other religions/forms of spirituality, because according to my limited understanding, they tend to adscribe divinity as something that goes both beyond the body and the capacity for reason. Also, if divinity is directly linked with reason, would that mean that Stoics do not believe that some of the other animals that exist have a "spark of the divine" within them?

I think divinity at the time is what we would call soul or inner goodness, it reflects a belief that we are good at heart and fundamentally divine. I frame this as we are beings of growing consciousness, and that we are all on a spectrum of trying to be better people, which removes the binary judgement of being good or bad

How do the Stoics link the "divinity within" with the faculty of reason?

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By influence, I mean convincing them. I know that stoicism tells us not to worry about events that we can't manipulate, but how much is it true for other people? Since people can affect others.

Meditations 10.4 "If they've made a mistake, correct them gently and show them where they went wrong. If you can't do that, then the blame lies with you. Or no one."

How much a stoic can (or should) influence other people?

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Not sure if tbis belongs here but id love advice. Im 22 years old and 3 years ago i fully embraced stoicism. Im very proud of what i accomplished durring my stoic mindset BUT i messed it all up badly. I attempted day trading. I became a lead aerospace welder, welding engine parts for mostly the F-35 fighter jet. I finally started making money trading while welding. Tried my hardest to be a bodybuilder as well I did this for a little over a year and it was incredible. But twards the end of that year i was so burnt out i stopped trading, lifting, and quit my welding job due to the fact that i was making awesome money from trading consistently. For a couple weeks after i quit i didnt do anything. Laid around sleeping. Then i picked up trading again when i remembered thats why i quit my welding job. I snappedy achilles in half helping puch a car then 4 days later i was diagnosed with epilepsy (again) with 15 partial seizures per day. (Its "better" now) I lost my stoic mindset. My work ethic, and my ability to continue to improve my day trading skills. Its been 10 months and everyday i try to become stoic again, improve my trading skills (because i make like $100 a day and im struggling to maintain that). But i never stick to it or take it seriously. I just need to stop being a lazy bum. I fell into the victim mentality (embarrassingly) Anyway any advice to get past this? Move locations? New environment? Go back to welding to gain motivation again? I even thought about paying someone to watch over me for a week to keep me on track until to get it through my head that its the life i want so do what needs to be done. Im not happy with this mindset and Im lost lol -Thanks

Try going back to the basics. Pick up a copy of meditations by Aurelius (hays translation is best) or re read a copy your already have. Maybe eliminate any substance issues you have such as pot or alcohol (this helped me immensely). I'm assuming you still have your welding certification so perhaps you could slowly ease back into that after you develop a consistent trading routine? Maybe instead of training to be a body builder you could use your workouts as a way to release tension. If you don't have the mindset of competing in lifting then it makes it more laid back and gives you an outlet.

Fell back into the "majority mindset"

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What motivated you to learn more about Stoicism?

Horrible breakup followed by a nervous/emotional breakdown and existential crisis. A friend gave me Meditations. Good friend.

What motivated you to learn more about Stoicism?

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Inspired by [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/fx00gf/i_am_intrigued_about_your_stance/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share), I had some questions that I thought would provide good discussion and clarification. How do you succinctly define traditional stoicism? From my reading, it is the consideration of physics (e.g. determinism) and theology (e.g. description of God) when adopting Stoicism as a worldview. How does being a traditional stoic impact your practice when compared to a modern stoic? What is your personal view of God? Is it mostly aligned with Providence or the immanence of nature? And to those who aren't traditional Stoics but believe in God, what God do you believe in? Deism, theism, pantheism, panentheism, etc.? I look forward to your thoughts.

The dichotomy of control reminds us that some things are within our control, and others are not. It's perfectly sensible to apply this to our external lives - to say things like, well, I can't control if my car breaks down or not, but I can control how well I maintain it. This is good advice, but it has little to do with traditional Stoicism. To the traditionalists, the only things 'within our control' are basically our judgement and our will, and that's it. It has nothing to do with external things at all. Good and bad only have meaning in reference to these internal things. >When Epictetus says that wisdom is good itself and folly is evil, he is not making a consequentialist point. He is not trying to say that having false beliefs will cause us to choose evil actions, like attacking the weak or committing murder. To say this would be to confuse our external actions as having moral worth. **No external acts that I commit can have intrinsic value, either good or bad.** Rather, what he is saying is that being ignorant, or dealing with impressions improperly, **is** the evil. As such, having a false belief is an evil act in and of itself. In fact, it is the only kind of evil act. And having correct beliefs is the only good act. Remember that since we only have control over our rational faculty, then assent to an impression and forming the corresponding belief is the only kind of genuine choice we ever get to make. Thus our beliefs do not cause future evil or good actions in the external world. They _are_ the evil or good actions... https://old.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/dv0urw/quote_of_the_day_michael_trembley/

Questions for Traditional Stoics

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Hello everyone, i came to know about stoicism through a friend when i was down very badly due to a break up, been a year since i have applied and try the practices and would like to ask if there is a way to apply stoicism when gaming ?

I'm not sure how to apply it in gaming, but there is this game, Dark Souls, I think that it's philosophies and lore and even game play, covers some teaching of stoicism. Check out the example below, and apart from that, there a various other videos exploring Dark Souls philosophies, if you feel curious about it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viP4psS3MUQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viP4psS3MUQ)

Soticism in gaming ?

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Yeah, yeah. Countless posts like this. But my problem is this. How do I deal with the mental pain that I constantly receive from thinking about all the societal problems (about which I won't go into detail unless necessary) over which I have little to no control? It mostly annoys me because of how powerless I feel over it and that it may negatively impact people I care about, even complete strangers I don't know. I know spending time and energy on pondering issues I have no control over is one of the things stoicism is against, but being completely passive about it sounds like a horrible alternative to me

First of all, you could change your language. It's not the things that hurt you mentally (as you wrote it), rather it's your judgement of things that results in emotional suffering. In regards to the societal problems, you can think about what is in your power to solve them, which is far more than we often think; you could go on hunger strike, sleep in a tent before a government building, start a petition etc. The question is if you think it's worth the effort and priority, and if you think it will get the result. If you decide not to after serious (rational) consideration, than it will be easier to accept or live with it. Keep in mind that the societal problem (in this case) is the only problem. We seem to build emotional (imaginary) problems on top of real problems, which only hinders us in solving the real problems.

How to deal with things that constantly hurt me mentally but are completely out of my control?

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Anyone have an idea about stoicism and islam.

Are you trying to ask if there are similarities? I can think of two right off the top of my head. Fasting in Islam isn't too far off from "voluntary discomfort" in Stoicism. Also, Islam is something practiced methodically every day, same with Stoicism.

Stoicism and Islam

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While reading about early roman history i have noticed that some authors mention how the roman patricians were heavily into stoicism and this showed off in particularly hard times, such as the aftermath of a military defeat or whenever the got captured by the enemy. Was roman stoicism a thing before Cato the younger? When did stoicism arrived to rome? Does stoicism relates in any way to the roman *virtus* and other roman values?

>When did stoicism arrived to rome? 155 BCE. [Link](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/stoicism/#influence) (6.3 but the entire section is very interesting.) ~~Rome~~ Stoicism is said to have begun in 300 BCE.

Stoicism in the early roman republic

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Apologies if there's a better place to post this, but stoicism has greatly changed my life (for the better) this year, and it all started in January 2020. Beginning in January, I took my first internship. I was about 2 hours from home, being paid for the first time for what I'd been going to school for for the last three years. Days 1 and 2 were typical introduction days, and then that first Wednesday. One of the coldest days we'd had in a long time (Central part of Midwest) and I had a horrendous day. I felt like I knew nothing about what I was doing. I was the new person in the office, the most clueless. This was in stark contrast to the classroom where I am typically a top 20% student. I had my first mental/emotional breakdown. I called my girlfriend, talked with her for a while, but when I hung up that feeling of despair and helplessness still sat in my stomach like a rock. In that moment as I sat in my room all alone, I felt worthless. One of the books my older brother had shown me, and which i eventually purchased and brought with me to the internship, was Meditations. He'd listened to the ebook, and told me to give it a try (a $3 purchase wouldn't hurt anything). And then I found the quote that's governed my life from that day forward. "You don't have to turn this into something. It doesn't have to upset you." Marcus Aurelius A simple quote to read and understand. Don't blow things out of proportion. I realized I was getting in my head about the smallest things in life. Was I unhappy because of how "bad" work was, or was it because I was dwelling on any negatives I could find? I took a pen and wrote the quote on a sheet of computer paper and taped it to my wall. Every single day from then on that I spent in that apartment, I found a new quote (typically from Meditations or googling) and wrote it down and taped it to the wall. By the time my internship got cut short due to Covid, I had 60 quotes plastered above the desk I ate and worked at. It was an extremely pleasing and relaxing exercise, and honestly got me through a lot of difficult days. It gave me something to look forward to. As it put me in a better mood, I also started working out more and my mood got so much better. I'm not going to say Stoicism is some miracle drug that cures all, but realizing that you can't control everything in life, and have to take things for their actual value and roll with them is a very important lesson to learn. I'm so thankful for finding that quote at the right time. And for the other 59 quotes I found throughout my time away. How has reading and following stoic beliefs helped you all?

A quote was found to be attributed to Marcus Aurelius in his Meditations 6.52 (Hays) ^(Book VI. ()[^(Hays)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources?isbn=9780812968255)^) ^(Book VI. ()[^(Farquharson)](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Meditations_of_the_Emperor_Marcus_Antoninus/Book_6)^) ^(Book VI. ()[^(Long)](https://lexundria.com/m_aur_med/6.52/lg)^)

How has stoicism helped you in difficult times?

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I (F24) am currently living at home with my mum and sister. I moved back in after I graduated last year. I've always felt young for my age but over the last year I've started acting like an angry 14 year old. All I seem to do is sit on my phone, researching my problems and talking to people about them. I have become abusive to my partner and emotionally shut off from those around me. I seem to resent people and assume they don't like me. I don't have the drive to do any actual hobbies, I'm becoming incredibly self obsessed and self indulgent. I pity myself for situations that I have put myself in, and I do nothing to fix them. I don't feel like I'm living IN my life. I feel like I'm less mature than I was at 18. I talk about myself all the time and have days where I find it hard to think about anyone else. People have tried to help me but I'm set on 'fixing it myself' but after another day of lying in bed researching potential personality disorders I think this is getting ridiculous. My motivation to change seems to disappear so fast. I really dislike myself and don't understand how I'm in this place. The more aware I am of needing to stop acting in my ego the more I seem to do it. I've bought many self help books but don't have the motivation to read them. I've started remote volunteering but am too lazy to contribute much. I promise my partner that I'll get better and communicate better but some days I struggle to connect with my own actions and his feelings. I'm in therapy but paying someone £ to talk about myself AGAIN seems counterproductive. I don't understand how I'm in this place at 24. I thought I would be in a happy relationship or living in France or volunteering with animals or learning how to make clothes but instead I've become a lazy self pitying directionless lump. Even my 19 year old sister has told me to start acting my age. Anyone have any tips on how to grow up? I know stoicism is about acceptance and living by logic so I think that would help. TL;DR : have regressed massively since leaving uni and am now very toxic and immature. I'm not sure how to get out of this slump. Any advice on maturing emotionally greatly appreciated.

This probably isn't a helpful comment, but have you read any of the Stoic works? Personally, after reading Aurelius and Seneca, my viewpoint changed and I became more self-conscious of my bad qualities/behaviors. I have since changed for the better.

How can stoicism help me mature emotionally?

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So i'm extremely new to this all. I am currently reading "How to think like a Roman Emperor". But i wanted to know what i should read next. I was thinking about the Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Suggestions would be much appreciated. Honestly any and all suggestions about just learning Stoicism in general would be greatly appreciated.

Check the FAQ http://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/faq

Reading Suggestions?

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I'm new I was sent here from a user on r/NoStupidQuestions after asking for other was I can improve my outlook and have a more positive life despite the world around me being currently on fire and in chaos. I see a therapist but it's once every two weeks and I've started reading books about science and philosophy (they said I should read books about what I like to help me improve my life). Then as I said earlier they said I should go here for help as well so once again; What is Stoicism? Like the real meaning not the one people often assume the meaning is.

The description in the FAQ is pretty good: >Stoicism is a philosophy of life, a practical guide to applying wisdom to your daily choices, focused on living life as a thriving rational being, characterized by excellence in judgement and the fulfilled happiness that is to the mind what robust healthy fitness is to the body. Stoics believe that, just as physical pain is caused by illness and injury to the body, human distress is caused (at least in part, and according to orthodox Stoicism, entirely) by mistaken judgments and incorrect beliefs, particularly about good and bad. To completely correct these judgements and correct these beliefs is a difficult task, perhaps effectively impossible, but Stoic study, practice, and exercises aim at least to improve those of the Stoics who practice them. The whole FAQ is good, honestly: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/faq

So what is Stoicism?

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As i was reading Seneca's letters i stumbled upon the following: No good thing is pleasant to possess, without friends to share it , which is mentioned in the letter "On sharing knowledge". Source: [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral\_letters\_to\_Lucilius/Letter\_7](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_7) My question is that is there anything in Stoicism that talks about a life of isolation? As i believe that i am going to spend my life somewhat isolated (not willingly) and it would help to read about it

When I read I immediately started guessing why you might isolated. Is he going to jail? Does he have some illness or deformity that makes him want to avoid society? Is he going to live in a super remote place..? Anyway.. You probably can use the Internet and read books, and if I were you, I would probably study the classics of literature and poetry. And I'd observe nature! Check out Walden by Thoreau and probably John Muir (though I haven't read his books). (P.S.: If you have some ailment that prevents you from living in society, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Keller . I recently stumbled over her bio and it's super inspiring.)

How to deal with a life of complete isolation

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The other day I was arguing with my dad over what my response should be to not getting the time off at work I requested. I was resigned to it, trying to practice Amor Fati in the moment and not wishing for things to be how they aren't. My dad got flustered at my reaction, and kept questioning me over why I can't ask to get it changed. I was having difficulty expressing how I felt in this circumstance, and to be honest the argument was heating me up too. Got any advice for arguments / conversing with non-Stoics who don't understand anything about Stoicism? (Also, I really am not ready to tell him I practice this philosophy so I don't want to explain Amor Fati to him) Thanks for helping :)

The more grounded in your philosophy that you are, the easier it is to remain calm. Saying something like "I'm okay with it, Dad" or somehow figuring out how to communicate without getting worked up will go a long way to diffusing these types of exchanges. It's really hard to not get excited when someone is more upset about something than you are. That being said, if the time off was important and you assessed that there was some angle that you could appeal it, it would be totally reasonable to ask your work. Stoicism isn't about being a victim. It's partially about reasonably assessing a situation if possible before reacting.

Any advice for disputes with non-Stoics?

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I agree with a lot of stoicism and I'm a bit natural leaned towards those mindsets before I knew what it was. Though, I can very often see the machiavellian nature of human beings and focus on their actions rather then their words. With that I often conclude that most people are very shallow beings only thinking about themselves (even most people doing "good deeds" to boost their own ego, like donating money). I also often prepare for a negative outcome. For example some old friend hits me up. "How nice" I thought at first, "what is he after?" After some friendly chatting back and forth he starts begging for money. Classic. Am I more leaned towards a cynical mindset rather then stoic?

The Cynics weren't 'cynical' is the way we use the word today, and for that matter, the Stoics weren't really 'stoic' either. This is a good overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy) As for the Stoics, our own FAQ is the best place to start: http://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/faq

What is the difference between Stoicism and Cynicism?

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For the last five years i'd say ive had dysthymia(depression but more like cycles of it) I feel like my only options are to leave my current circumstance living at home and get out in the world. This will not only destroy my agoraphobia but also make me more independent and force me to be put into stressful situations giving me more of the character that i admire in others. My options right now in my head are to join the military or live abroad. I'm thinking Uruguay. I think the military will instill the work ethic and discipline and financial security that i seek and i know that with this sense of strictness it will eventually free me but it will also give me another entity to be dependent on. Going from my parents to big brother. I don't like the idea of this nor the complete conformity aspect that will make my individuation process more difficult as I denigrate into a pack mentality again. With this being said living abroad has always been a dream of mine and also to learn Spanish. My Spanish is ok right now but i need to work on speaking rather than just reading. I have this problem with people and anxiety and I think that living abroad might push me back into wherever i am dwelling and continue to isolate me but i will be forced to be more of an adult this way and forced to socialize in a foreign language in order to get around. Learn more of me while instead of being told who is me. I have much more I could write about these two things but don't want to make things tldr. Just being in another world from right now will be great although i've been fighting with this decision for years. I chose this sub because stoicism to me is basically a fight on making the right decision even though knowing you won't be able to but putting emotions aside. TLDR; Military or Uruguay. Where should i go?

>I feel like my only options are to leave my current circumstance living at home and get out in the world. Not only are these not your only options, there is no reason to suspect they're even routes to happiness at-all. The next step up from "depressed and unemployed, living at home" is not "soldier" or "world trotter". It is most likely simply "employed", followed by "not living with your parents". People who have not taken on new challenges in their lives for a very long time often develop delusions of "transcendence", in which they stop thinking realistically about what the "next step" for them is, and begin thinking about courses of actions that involve a complete transformation of their entire character. If you go over to the meditation forum, you will see people who have been unemployed and trapped for years believing that their problem can be solved by becoming "enlightened". If you go over to a bodybuilding forum, you will see people who are struggling to date asking how they can go from a regular-looking person to a Mr Universe-like entity in only a few months, in the belief that this will address their problem. And sometimes, when a person has been stuck at home, unemployed, they begin thinking about "becoming a soldier" (which is a complete transformation) or "traveling the world" to fix their problems. In many ways, this person is having the same delusion as the person who thinks you can solve depression with "enlightenment". The reason people do this is that they are caught in a cycle of feeling they're "behind". They are comparing themselves to other people. Because they are not trying to improve themselves, and are in fact trying to "catch up" to a standard they have imagined to exist, they do not think in terms of small, incremental improvements in their life, but instead begin to think only about single "bounds" that will take them from nothing to everything they believe that should have achieved. Many people end up roped into multi-level marketing schemes this way. I believe there is a chance that you are engaged in this way of thinking. People can linger for decades trying to plan the "big move" that takes them from nothing to everything when they think in this way. I would ask yourself whether it would not be more reasonable to think less about "traveling the world" or "becoming a super-disciplined soldier" and more about "finding a job" and "leaving your parent's house with the money from that job". You also need a reality check on the army front; the army trains you to be in the army. Very often, soldiers who leave the armed forces are extremely lost mentally and physically and very little of what you're taught has any true relevance to civilian life. Much of it can make civilian life harder, not easier, for many soldiers.

Life decision. Escape from reality through military service or living abroad?

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Am I passive and weak? In recent years I feel like I've naturally gravitated towards stoicism. There are so many things I can't control. I will stay very calm and consider whether or not there is a procedure for a given situation. I haven't studied stoic philosophy very much but I like what I've read so far. A coworker was complaining about some pointless task given by our boss. The task was lengthy and probably assigned because they didn't want to take the time to come up with a better task. When asked how I respond to such tasks I said that I do them because I am getting paid. When the boss says to do something, I should do it. Overall, I like my job and from time to time I may get assignments I don't enjoy. I still need to provide for my family. My coworker accused me of being passive and weak. This is someone I trust and the accusation has been bothering me for awhile. Note: if this question is not appropriate for the subreddit please feel free to take it down.

You get paid to do the work. The way I see it that's an arrangement you agreed to. Not passive, its a choice. Your friends emotional reaction to a slight inconvenience seems more like weakness to me, whining doesn't show strength. If he doesn't want to do the work for the wages he is recieving then he should quit, otherwise he is passive. He's the one doing work he doesn't want to do

Passive and Weak?

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So a little context before i start: im going to pass away this week, probably not more than a few days away now. My reason for posting here is asking for some advice, maybe some help with reflection on how to remain stoic in a situation like this, or perhaps just someone to wave me off. Im having what can only be described as an incredibly vast mess of emotions raging within me, competing for dominance, anything from fear to sadness, happiness and excitement, and of course confusion. But the one im struggling the most with is how nothing seems to have changed around me. That life moves forwards for everyone else while i seemingly stand still is such a surreal feeling which makes this so unreal. I wake up like any other day, but with the knowledge that its soon over. That im not going to catch the next episode of that TV show, how im not going to read that new novel, or try that new game with my friends. Fear because im afraid of what comes after, if anything at all. That there could be nothing, is just as scary as what could be. Sadness because i have had to distance myself from friends, also a factor in leading me to post here anonymously. Happiness because i wont need to worry about the physical pain and further deteriorating body, that i dont need to question whether or not i have eaten in the past few days. Excitement because of what could be, maybe there is a vast world that i get to explore without being ill. and confusion because all of these emotions exist and act out simultaneously. I opted for not being in the hospital, and instead in the relative comfort of my own home. Im feeling very conflicted as i clean what i can, tidy, throw away things, and generally prepare myself for maybe not waking up the next day. The recurring theme is that none of this feels real to me yet, I expected things to be different, for the world to say something back to me. But all im met with is the little comfort normality brings, although I am feeling disappointed and confused that nothing is different around me. If youve gotten this far, thank you for reading this. That someone is even taking the time to read this means a lot to me, because it makes me feel a just a little bit better, because maybe someone would be able to understand just a little bit of what im feeling through this text. EDIT: To everyone that is reading and commenting, i try to reply to as many as i can, but know that you are already doing more than i could have hoped for from a stranger. All of the comments in this post bring me an amazing sense of calm i could never have imagined I'd get. So many people engaging with me makes me feel a sense of calm in the storm i didn't think was possible, you guys are all giving me the feeling that it's going to be ok. That it's just the next step. That you all have given me the thing i treasure the most right now, your time and attention, so to everyone reading and commenting, thank you. EDIT 2: I believe no time is wasted if it's spent doing what you want or what you enjoy. For me right now with my limited time, i find myself smiling and feeling a sense of companionship to everyone here sharing their opinions, insight, and thoughts with me. That i am able to interact and share meaningful moments with all of you is something i will treasure forever.

I'm here. I've read every word. You've explained yourself so well, and I wish for you peace. I don't know what to say, I have no advice, but I didn't want to read and move on silently. So hello from another random stranger on the internet. Thank you for sharing this with us.

When the end comes the most surprising thing is how nothing changes

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I'm 23 and have been with this girl since highschool. She recently broke up with me and left me for my best friend, she told me she didn't feel in love with me anymore but I still loved her with all my heart. I looked into stoicism to try and cope with the situation but I'm having a hard time staying in that mindset. Do y'all have any advice on staying in the stoic mindset? Edit: I appreciate everyone of you who took the time to write! It's honestly made me feel a lot better. I'll give a little more context so you understand exactly how I'm feeling. I treated my friend like a brother, always looked out for him and always tried to help him out whenever I could. And with my ex we would be almost inseparable we had so much in common and saw each other every day but she had always told me that I lacked maturity and always complain about me being too bitter and depressed and stubborn. After her family confronted her and told her they don't think I'm right for her that's when she pulled the trigger. It wasnt a clean cut it was a slow and painful process to undo what we had built for 7 years. And after finding out she had been sleeping with my friend I lost it and started putting her on blast on social media and it just made everything worse, now I'm being threatened by her family. Everything is very messy right now, I turned to stoicism to try and help me have a good attitude about the situation but it's been difficult

I know you feel betrayed not by just one, but two loved ones. I very recently experienced something similar. Here's my two cents. You cannot and should not take responsibility for the actions of your friend or ex. They are beyond your control. The fact that they will have to contend with each other's behaviour at some point in time is their problem now. "Other people's mistakes? Leave them to their makers." \- Marcus Aurelius Do not make the mistake of thinking that there could be anything you could have done differently to avoid what happened. This is an illusion, a cognitive distortion that is predicated on the false belief that you have absolute control of your environment and can deterministically define the course of events, in the same way that turning the knob in the shower produces hot water. Look at this as a gift, events turned out to be such that two people that were not right for you revealed this fact to you at the same time. Finally, when grief starts to subside somewhat, start working on yourself and building an identity outside of a relationship that dominated your formative years. What do you love to do? What excites or intrigues you? What's a hobby that sparks joy? Don't try to rush and take each day as it comes. Accept what happened to you and accept that what you feel about it is natural. I don't know you but I have full faith in your ability to overcome this. Take care of yourself.

My GF of 7 years left me for my best friend, I've been lonely.

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Let me start by saying that me and my wife will be seeking couples therapy. This post is about what I can do in addition to that from a stoic perspective for my mental wellbeing. A bit long, so there is a TLDR at the end. Me and my wife are married for almost 9 years. We have a 5yo child. She had a relationship during her college days with a guy (broke up before we married) which went quiet after we married. But they started talking a couple of years back and became good friends and slowly developed feelings. The guy and his wife are in a open/polyamorous relationship and by having conversations with them over the course of several months, my wife also got interested in the idea. She has talked to me about the concept of polyamory with me a couple of times and my response all the time was that I am not sure. All the conversations that we had were theoretical/hypothetical and we never agreed to proceed with pursuing it. A couple of months back, my wife mentioned that she needed to take a vacation (to another country) and that she would be staying with the above mentioned guy and his wife. Recalling the conversations about poly earlier, I was a bit apprehensive and specifically talked to her and asked her not to pursue anything during her trip. I said in no uncertain terms that I was not OK with this and I didn't know how I would react if something happens (I said it could be jealousy, depression, disappointment - I even said things may go to divorce). I made sure I was dead serious about this. She went on her trip and she stayed with the guy - they slept in a room the 7 days she was there and had sex. She told me this a day after she was back from vacation. She does tell me that she loves me (I believe her 100% and I love her too) as much as she did earlier, but wants the other relationship also. Now, I am feeling all kinds of emotions: jealousy, betrayal, feeling inadequate/insignificant, anger, worried about our future. I cannot stop imagining her lying in bed naked with the guy and I have bawled my eyes out several times since. The part about dealing with the future of our relationship is definitely something that we will work on with therapy, but for now as a first step, I need to heal from the feeling of being cheated on, betrayed. Please help me work through this. I am unable to function and these thoughts are consuming me. How do I distill this event into external thing/judgement and wipe it out? What can I control? I want to be stronger when I come out of this and I am sure I will but could use some advice. TL;DR: Wife broke the trust in our relationship by sleeping with another guy (even after explicitly mentioning that I was not OK with it) and I am now feeling all kinds of emotions: jealousy, betrayal, feeling inadequate/insignificant, anger, worried about our future. Please help me work through this.

Divorce. Don't use stoicism to make staying more bearable. Use stoicism to make leaving her more bearable. This mistrust will always be in your mind and will be no help to your relationship with her or your children. Cheating is never accidentally or sudden. It always starts in the heart. She cheating on you spiritually LONG before it became reality.

Wife broke trust in relationship - seeking stoic guidance.

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I'll try to make this brief. Since I was a child I developed a knee jerk reaction to checking out women. I don't stare but it's like butts and boobs have a tractor beam on my pupils and before I know it I've taken a quick glance at a woman's physique. After reading several stoic books I've begun to feel that I'm not in control of my impulses and desires and now I just feel as Marcus Aurelius might say a puppet being pulled by the puppet strings of desire and impulse. I feel at battle with my logic and my beast like impulses. Secondly, I have a girlfriend and while I would never be what is traditionally viewed as disloyal, I've begun to feel disloyal for it as well and I think rightly so. My intention isn't to debate whether there is a worthy excuse as I'm sure many other men have wandering eyes as well but I am seeking some advice on how I should curb this. I need something besides shielding my eyes every time a woman passes me or shows up on my feed. I'm sure this is comical to some and I admit it is an odd advice request but it is a deeply ingrained impulse which I've been trying to challenge everyday recently and not doing so great.

The impulse is natural, your response to the impulse is up to you. The impulse is only unsettling or disruptive or overpowering because you believe it to be so. It has no force of its own. It's very easy for young men to overvalue the sexual attractiveness of potential or imagined partners. It's easy to imagine that it means so much, that it promises happiness that is incomparable. That's the hook, that's why it's disruptive. We believe it matters, so it matters. If you woke up tomorrow and believed it meant nothing, it would mean nothing. There's no more to it than that. Do your best to examine and challenge the beliefs you have; don't try to change them, but instead, honestly and fairly evaluate them, and adopt the beliefs that you really think are correct. If it's genuine, it works.

Curbing lustful impulses

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I need to reach out to other individuals besides my loved ones right now even on the internet. I feel like my whole life is a mistake at the age of 25. I noticed people cause 90% of the worlds problems. 10% is left to physical nature. My girlfriend and I have been trying to find a place for the last month (again) nothing was coming from it. We searched and searched and searched. Some places looked promising but they didn't work out. We live in South Florida by the way so everything is getting overly expensive right now. The last place me and my girlfriend looked at didn't work out either. I talk to her grandmother about the situation. She was trying to get an efficiency with my girlfriends uncle's girlfriends family. I guess no information was relayed to this guy from his mom. He ends up being upset and wanted to talk to my girlfriend and I outside (family gathering). And comes off very offensive so I asked him why he was holding that tone with us and he told me shut up and let him talk. I told him don't talk to us like that then he pushes me on the front lawn and gets ready to fight me... I don't fight unless I absolutely have to. I pick myself up. I'm heated and he gets back in my face. After I tell him to stay where he is. Some family comes outside and points fingers at me and say I have to go. I dropped my phone when he pushed me. His girlfriend blames me. I then storm off in my car trying to commit suicide and end up damaging someones yard down the street (We've been through a lot in a short amount of time). The cops came. Didn't receive a ticket. I'm paying for damages as I should. I don't think her family knows or cares what happened. My girlfriend and I have nowhere to go and we have to move out soon. I'm coming here for stoic advice. Because as a past practicing stoic I was never suicidal. This just started happening last year. I'm trying to practice stoicism again but my life has gotten so hard that any for of philosophical thought has drain out of my mind. Now. I don't like people. I don't trust people. And I need help...

You need to seek professional help immediately. Do not replace proper help with advice from strangers on the internet.

I almost committed suicide today.

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Maybe it's just me but I'd love to see this sub go back to being a place to have discussions about the actual philosophy instead of what it has turned into; mostly posts about people asking for advice on how to deal with things like their girlfriend rejecting them, or how their grandma is dying or that they have no job or whatever. Make a separate sub called stoic advice or some such thing for that... Sorry for rant, maybe I'm in the minority here, just seems to be a steady drop in quality here. I think one could even argue turning this sub into a forum for people to complain about every single negative event in their life actually goes against what stoicism teaches.

Philosophy isn't just discussion and thought, though - stoicism is about the *practice* of the philosophy. Those who come here seeking advice are in actuality asking how to practice stoicism.

Petition to move "seeking stoic advice" posts to a separate sub.

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In 20 days I'm going to be homeless. It is a certainty, parents are kicking me out the day I'm 18. There is nothing I can do to change it, although I searched I could not find a job. I don't even have couches to sleep on as I am generally unfriendly. I don't need life advice (E.g. find a church get a gym membership). I would just like some words of advice to face the challenge of months I will be spending alone trying to finish high school from a tent. Edit: I would please recommend everyone to reread the line "I don't need life advice (E.g. find a church get a gym membership)."I want wisdom, I am not in need of what-to-do advice

You aren't the first, and you won't be the last. You'll be attending a real classroom and out of the elements for many hours. Clean up your body in the school bathrooms daily and use your locker to store toiletries and important paperwork like a birth certificate and such. Spend your evenings in the library and use the free wifi to complete any online content. At the very least, let a guidance counselor at your school know your transient status. Find out if you're eligible for an extended hotel stay, or get on a waiting list for transitional housing. Familiarize yourself with food handout days from various agencies, and apply for a food stamp card to buy groceries. I don't know if you're in an urban or rural setting, doesn't matter much, but there's a good chance the police and other social service agency personnel will get to know you *in a good way*. You will not go unnoticed. Let society help you, even if you don't make friends easily. In my country, young adults your age get free health care. Don't know about yours. Find out. Let society do what your parents aren't able to do. The fact that you want to finish high school is an excellent intention. You may feel alone, but you are actually far from it. Let the infrastructure of society be your friend, and let the humans who are in positions to help you, actually help you. You don't have to be friends with any of them. Radically accept that humans will help you and want nothing in return. "WHEREVER THERE IS A HUMAN BEING, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A KINDNESS." \- SENECA

Facing homelessness. Stoic advice?

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I honestly thought that I'd be braver or more stoic about it, but I'm really just fucking terrified. I have severe health anxiety and OCD and I've spent literally years worrying every day about some rare illness that would come along and take me out, but now that it might actually be happening I almost feel like I can't accept it. My mind is like a record skipping - it won't allow me to go beyond fear and into acceptance. I keep going over everything in my head, all the time I spent digging into a pit of despair and worry and not being present in my own life - it was all such a fucking waste. I could have been spending it with my family and with my husband, but instead I was wrapped up in my own shit and naively thought I'd "fix" it someday and it would all be okay. The irony of it is that I'm pretty sure all the worrying and all the fear is what made me the way I am now, and what's going to kill me is actually *me*. I know that death is natural. I know that everybody dies. I just don't feel ready to. I feel like the clock is ticking and it's getting louder and louder every minute. I want desperately for this to be yet another one of 'those times' when I was just as convinced, but all the evidence in front of me says this is different. This is for *real*. I've started writing goodbye letters for everyone but I don't know what to say. There's a lot of pressure to say the right thing and leave a good lasting impression. I had hoped to have had the chance to actually say goodbye properly, in person, but that isn't going to happen. I hope the people I love know that I didn't avoid them out of neglect or on purpose, it's just that this beast inside me wouldn't let me live, and I wasn't able to tame it before it devoured me from the inside out. I'm really, really sorry. I hope they can forgive me and that I'm remembered fondly, that they think about me with warmth and affection. I hope they'll be okay. I don't believe in an afterlife, but maybe there is something out there or maybe we'll all just circle back around. Maybe my random collection of atoms will come together again next time and I'll get a chance to do things over. That would be pretty nice. I didn't think this is how it would end for me. Hubris, I know. Why am I so fucking special, right? Spoiler: I'm not. I'm 32 years old and I guess I had a pretty good run, all things considered. That doesn't really help but I think people are supposed to feel that way. I'm not really sure what to do now to make myself more at peace. I just wanted to put this out there so its out of *me*, and maybe this will help calm this fearful part of me down enough so I can spend the last bit of my life actually living it. I'd welcome any words of wisdom or advice if anyone can share some.

OP, from your most recent comments: >Went to the ER and they did 2 EKGs, full blood tests, an hour monitor and a chest X-ray and said there was nothing wrong. The EKG report only said sinus arrhythmia). >I went to my PCP who listened a lot to my heart and said they do not recommend I go to a cardiologist for a Holter monitor and are very very sure that all of my issues are from anxiety (I have severe OCD - the concern re: the monitor is that I would find something to fixate on even if it came out normal). So, I'm kind of stuck now between worrying that there's some underlying issue causing the palpitations that's going to cause cardiac arrest or trying to accept it might really be anxiety and hoping to feel better enough for serious attempt at treating it. You are experiencing anxiety induced panic and delusion. You should be seeing a mental health professional.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to die soon and I'm not as okay with it as I want to be (*Trigger Warning*)

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It could be that I'm just a bit exhausted from the everyday grind, a bit worn out of the state of the world and the reality of the modern day human condition, or just vibing hard with the Stoic texts I've be re-reading again as of late, namely the Meditations. I'm catch myself feeling a growing disconnect and weariness from the everyday hustle and bustle, the heated discussions people have on meaningless or indifferent subjects, the constant grind for money and keeping up with the jones's. Feels like the more I sync with the Stoic teachings and mindset, the more I feel disconnected from the modern lifestyle, and the things it prioritises. Not really looking for advice here, just thought I'd share. Thanks for reading.

Emil Cioran said something like "Every form of haste, even towards good, betrays some mental disorder." I have spent most of my life working my ass for the purpose of generating profit for others. And now I have realized that most of the hardest working are the most exploited. I've been trying really hard lately to internalize the stoic ways and it has been a struggle but I am slowly disallowing my corporate overlords from leaving me in a state of stress, anxiety, and exhaustion. My hate for the system is slowly turning to pity for those who sell their souls to the system. I still hate the system though, don't get me wrong on that.

I feel I'm gradually disconnecting from the hustle and bustle of the modern day lifestyle.

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Hello friends, I come here for advice and guidance about a real life situation, that disturbs me a lot when I wish it didn't. Secret Santa at work, with 10€ limit. I bought some nougat, a pack of candy, and some cake. I put it in a postal box I had at home, except part of it was torn. I am an awfully bad wrapper, and somehow I thought it would work out fine once I wrapped it \- although I admit I could have tried harder. Anyway, when a coworker picked my gift and unwrapped it in front of everybody (\~25 people), it just looked like... 3 random food items thrown in a used and partially torn postal box. It looked lame, almost inconsiderate. One manager even made a joke about it in front of everyone, saying another weirdly wrapped gift at least wasn't as bad as mine \- he later came to apologize when other told him how bad that was (thinking he maybe was criticizing the *content* of my gift).I said it was fine... but in fact I felt pretty humiliated (I tend to be really sensitive to jokes at work). I really can't seem to let it go, I even ponder writing back to this manager tomorrow to tell him how I really felt. I am kinda surprised and shameful about how such a minor thing (in the grand scheme of things) can disturb me so much. Any stoic guidance would be welcomed here,cheers ! *PS : tip for your secret santa : just buy a scented candle in its original bag, or some easily-wrapped card game or small book...*

It's highlighting a vulnerability which you weren't aware of and is an opportunity to better know yourself. Quite often I find that with these types of things I can't let go there is usually some deep-seated event, usually from my adolescence, that led me to think that way, but that thinking was derived by an adolescent and I'm now an adult. Reframing past events in a new light is a powerful way to shape your thinking. Consider which part of it is most bothersome to you: judgement by the social group, the quality of the gift, the quality of the packaging, your low-effort approach relative to others, misreading the task, etc.

Extremely bothered by a joke during Secret Santa at work

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As in the title. Love never comes to some of us, but from the neurological point of view, it's needed nevertheless. It's not true that love will always find a way. No, it's not a rule, at least not today. However, our brains need it, all the hormones connected with it and so on, because it helped our ancestor survive and thus feel better and we have the same brains as they did. It's pure biology. But nowadays love may never come to some of us since times have changed and we haven't. All the lack of love leads to a huge discomfort in life. Whether I experience love or not, does not depend on me, despite my making an effort in that matter, but my brian just can't understand it. How do I tell my brain not to suffer? Any stoic readings on that? Any advice?

I am happy to explain the Stoic response to this, at least as I understand it anyway. Please understand that I am not trying to persuade you to it, I just mean to point it out. Very simply, the Stoics assert that we do not need any external things in order to thrive and to be happy. This is a foundational Stoic idea, well-explained and well-described in their terms. Love is an external, a thing, as you pointed out, which we cannot control, cannot count on, and cannot hold forever. What we _do_ need is to be loving, to have empathy, to have an open heart, to welcome others as they are, however they are, and we find the relationships we find, and that's that. Our being loving is within our control. That's us. That's what we need to keep right. The consequences are just the consequences, and that's all anyone ever has.

Love never comes to some of us

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He has a week or two left. He's my best friend, I'm having a hard time. Is there any good stoic advice that might help?

I saved this for when I need it next. hope it helps you. https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/oshe2b/i_would_like_to_make_sense_of_having_to_put_my/h6p4mnq/?context=3

My dog is dying

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Can lack of contraceptives in their times be the reason ? Or is there some other reasons ? Should we abstain from indulging in recreational sex? Please give stoic advice only.

Because intemperance is the enemy of self-mastery. The stoics weren't anti-sex necessarily, but they did believe that all physical pleasure should be approached with a view towards moderation. "The soul does violence to itself when it is overpowered by pleasure or by pain." - Marcus Aurelius "It is the nature of the wise to resist pleasures, but the foolish to be a slave to them." - Epictetus "Let the part of thy soul which leads and governs be undisturbed by the movements in the flesh, whether of pleasure or of pain; and let it not unite with them, but let it circumscribe itself and limit those affects to their parts." - Marcus Aurelius "Hold fast, then, to this sound and wholesome rule of life--that you indulge the body only so far as is needful for good health. Eat merely to relieve your hunger; drink merely to quench your thirst; dress merely to keep out the cold; house yourself merely as a protection against personal discomfort." - Senecca

why were the stoics critical of sexual indulgence?

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This has me second guessing myself. I have some life circumstances at the moment where I have had a car accident in august that was bad enough that my car needs substantial repairs. Due to covid they had trouble sourcing parts but was assured they could get them and have the car repaired by October. A few weeks out from that date I rang to ensure everything was on track and was told the manager would ring me back later that day. Four days later I finally get the call and was told that they were on track to have my car fixed early next year without acknowledgement that the car was to be fixed end of October. Fast forward to now and they finally sourced the part last month but have yet to start repairs as they are 'busy' but at the same time confirming my car has been at that shop the longest by a wide margin. I have been toing and froing in my mind about what is in my control and what is not. Obviously I can't help a lot of this situation but I read it as there needs to be a level of assertiveness so that my car gets fixed in a reasonable time, but when I think back to those core stoic principles I'm unsure what is a reasonable amount of assertiveness. A small part of me wants to ring them and really give it to them but that would mostly be unproductive. I'm not necessarily wanting advice on my specific scenario but how you define that line of being a doormat vs being stoic? **Edit: Thanks for all the great replies so far, I'm going to go through them all in a bit and really digest what people are saying.** **I feeI need to clarify. I don't think that stoicism causes you to be a doormat but that being indifferent to things outside your control could cause you to be taken advantage of, so in my example, if I have a relaxed attitude because things may not be in my control (covid, parts availability, they actually are having trouble with scheduling) that they may take advantage of my east going-ness.** **Clarification #2: my particular mess is complicated by the fact I'm going through an insurer and the shop is the preferred repairer. So I don't have the option of changing shops. I've already been down that path.**

Being a stoic doesn't mean being a doormat. It's fine to ask questions and make decisions and refuse what you don't agree with, standing your ground. It just means accepting that there are things outside of your control and not letting them affect your actions in an irrational manner. There are rational and irrational ways to deal with problems.

Where's the line between being stoic and being a doormat?

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Long story short. I'm in grad school currently and while here i formed a tight friend group of myself and four others. We hung out often and were very close. Just this morning though I got a text message that the group found some political articles I wrote 5 years ago and now 3 of the 4 friends have decided to cut ties with me completely. I'd hoped that we could all be friends despite any differences but they disagree. I feel completely abandoned by them all and while my first response was the stoic mantra "it is what it is" deep down I must admit that I'm feeling very hurt and alone. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

They learned something about you and decided that their morals and values are no longer aligned with yours. Personally? If my entire group of close friends decided something I did or said was so unforgivable that all of them at once decided to cut me out of the group, I would consider perhaps I'm in the wrong. Like, really put my beliefs to the test. Really listen to what they said to me and absorb it. However even if they don't like something you say or do doesn't give anyone the right to tell you not to say or do something, right or wrong, unless it puts them in danger in some way. People can only control their own actions. Alternatively, if I reflected on what I did or said and found no fault I would accept I've made a bad choice in friends. Friends and companions can come and go over your life because we grow and change as people. "Above all, keep a close watch on this-- that you are never so tied to your former acquaintances and friends that you are pulled down to their level. If you don't, you'll be ruined. You must choose whether to be loved by these friends and remain the same person, or to become a better person at the cost of those friends . . . if you try to have it both ways you will neither make progress nor keep what you once had." EPICTETUS https://thewisemind.net/stoic-thoughts-on-friendship/

How do I deal with being abandoned by my friend group

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As the title indicates. She was given 5 years. I know I have no control over this. I know everything dies. I keep saying the star wars line. "Rejoice for those around who turn into the force. Miss them do not. Mourn then do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed that is" Yoda Yes I know pop culture is not necessarily the best place to go for advice or wisdom. But something about this rings true for me. I love my mom. All that is good in me began with her. I go see her as often as I can. We live close. And my sister too. I've been through to many family deaths were people are basket cases. I don't want to be that when the end comes. I often think of sending her stoic quotes. But I often wonder if that will help. She understands stoicism. And her husband, the man who raised me. Introduced me to stoic thought. "Deal with the real" he always tells me. I'm just looking for some advice. Even if it's shut up and get on with it. With respect. fin

I lost my mom almost two years ago to cancer. She had an 18 month warning before she died via her diagnosis. It sucks that she died and that no modern medicine could help her, but such is life: Death inevitably comes for us all, the only real question is the how and the when? My advice is to spend as much time with your mom as you can, treasure it, take pictures, and enjoy the moments you have left together until there are no more future moments to share. You cant control death, but you can control how you spend your life while you both are still alive.

mom has terminal cancer

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Hi guys, So a year ago I got a divorce from a 17 year long relationship, I was betrayed for a long time and then cheated on at the end (while I was still trying to 'fix' the relationship). It was rather traumatic but was on a good path to recovery from this event and out of the blue met a great woman and we hit it off straight away. However for the first time in my life, I am now riddled with trust issues. I thought I knew my ex wife, then it turned out she had lied and manipulated me for most of our relationship, she told me I was her world one moment then 2 weeks later was sleeping with her colleague who she told me for years was 'just a friend'. I don't want to bring this stuff to my new relationship but I find it hard to trust and I now get jealous in a way I never did before with my ex. It is like I really love this woman, she is great and I didn't know that they made women like this. But I am so terrified of being cheated on or lied to that I almost cringing waiting for the sucker punch. What is the stoic approach to these issues / what would be the stoic advice for one in my shoes?

Beyond all of the stoic approach I sincerely recommend you to go to therapy... Sometimes the help of an expert is of great aid. Particularly in these situations in which our self-esteem and insecurity are damaged. Best of luck

How to deal with jealousy and insecurity like a stoic after being betrayed?

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I left home over twenty years ago but still struggle from lingering effects of the abuses and traumas I experienced. I'm going through therapy, taking meds, practicing gratitude and I'm slowly healing, but I still have much anger and hate, much of it directed at myself. I am seeking wisdom from this group on how to heal and be a better functioning adult. TIA

What happened was not your fault. You are here so I think you may know that much is our of our control other than our thoughts and actions, and even those can be limited. I have a similar experience to you, at least in what it would be labeled. We all have trials in our life. This does not necessarily make you stronger. But it has lead you here, to this moment. Amor Fati. Try to remember, those who we think do us wrong, or do others wrong, are not evil. They are without virtue. They most likely did not do what they did thinking they were doing something so evil. It was probably a learned behavior, or at the least it was something they acclimated to. These are not excuses, but we must seek to understand how we ourselves could get there. Think what may cause you to repeat their actions, had you not sought virtue. It probably isn't that difficult to get there. I wager it's one of the easiest things we can do. To give up, become spiteful, normalize brutish behavior. Know that what has happened, is in the past. It cannot hurt you now save for in memory alone, or in night terrors. It's okay for it to hurt. But if you cannot rid yourself, learn to love that part of you. Forgive yourself this. Lean into that side of you, and get to know it well, and know it is as much of you as the rest of your past. Good and evil are judgements that we alone decide for ourselves. I think a lot of Stoic teachings would point to not saying it's good or evil, simply that it happened. Continue therapy. If you're like me and have PTSD and thus nightmares and poor sleep, ask your psychiatrist or doctor about prazosin. It helped me.

What would be a Stoic's advice to an adult who is still struggling to heal from abuses and traumas from childhood?

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I have a girlfriend who I absolutely love. I haven't yet built much of a relationship with her parents due to distance (we originally lived 50 minutes apart, and we've been 3 hours apart for the past 3 months and will be until at least the end of April). To put it simply, her parents suck. They're successful and wealthy and from the outside look like they have it all. But they really suck. My girlfriend has panic attacks semi-frequently, and it's almost always related to her interactions with her family. Her dad is unemotional and distant, and her mom is hyper emotional and explosive. They make my girlfriend feel like shit constantly. At this point, I know I need to build a relationship with her parents for her sake, and for our relationships' sake, and I'd like them to get to know me so when my girlfriend and I move in together (most likely some distance away from both of our families) it won't feel like, from their perspective, that she's moving in with someone they don't know. I'm looking for stoic wisdom on how best to view this sort of situation.

Show them the utmost respect, regardless of your reservations. They are essentially your family while you are with this girl. Bear in mind that they may be ignorant in the sense of virtue; their distasteful character traits would be a result of that. Marcus says that those who offend or wrong us should still be treated with respect, as human beings, for he (in this case, you) are privileged to have a proper understanding of virtue where they do not.

Stoic advice on building relationships with poor quality people?

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20 year old here. curious to see your answers thought this would be interesting

Never let the actions or inactions of others cause you to have poisonous passions within. You are not in control of other people, and nor should you be. Control your own mind and your own actions, and do good for the community. Lead by example and make the world a better place through science, law, and art.

if you could give your 20 year old self any one piece of stoic advice, what would you say?

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I would like some stoic advice please on how to reframe my thoughts re my relationship with my adult daughter. Simply put I haven't seen her for a year and she never contacts me I have tried many times to message her or suggest meeting up but she always says she is busy. Which she probably is. This last week she has been on a work course literally 5 mins from where I work and I have suggested I pop in to her, or she comes round to me but she has brushed both suggestions off. To say I am hurt is an understatement. And I have no idea what has caused this to happen. I am trying so hard to be pleased that she is well and busy but that is not enough for me, I need some stoic advice to help with this grief. Edit: I am female (my daughters mother), not sure that makes any difference to the principles here, but just saying for clarity

There is always a reason. Try to find it and decide what you want to do about it. Often times kids say why, but parents are like "that can't possibly be it, what I did wasn't so bad" well evidently it was to her, and you have to listen if you want to repair the relationship. If she truly hasn't even hinted at anything, then ask yourself what about you can be off putting. Do you have friends? Ask them to point out what it could be. If you don't have friends, ask yourself why not. Basically try to figure out why your company is unpleasant, and makes it pleasant. A therapist can also help objectively point out what you may be missing and give advice after getting to know you better. Focus on the things you can control, and don't waste time on the things you can't. I was "busy" for years until I finally got the courage to tell my dad that his anger outbursts were giving me a lot of anxiety. His reaction was to swear at me and hang up. And he still sends me emails about how he doesn't understand what he did wrong and why I don't talk to him regularly.

Coping when your relationship with your child falls apart

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Hello, I am a beginner to stoicism. I agree to the practices, but fulfilling them is the difficult part. Could you please provide some recommendations some stoicism books, particularly to cater or address my queries. I feel an amalgamation of emotions that coincide with each other. Subconscious fear of school, doing work to the point I procrastinats. I don't have ambitions of goals to motivate, even if I do, they are momentary and elusive. I just don't do anything productive, only wasting my life as each moment dies. This has not become a problem, until recently. Also, I have implemented practices such as avoiding my friends, as I view them as impediments of me doing my work and not being lazy. This is causing a rift between my friendship with them, which I do not mind if it means that I will not be lazy, but it is not working and my friends don't know. But I realise that this practice is realistically artificial as outside of school I slack off into bad habits. Also, I know that I cannot control how people perceive me, but it's harder in practice. I am not concerned about anything that I should be such as school grades, work my health. I cannot fully immerse myself into that fear. I haven't read any books, only read online articles and videos, as I'm relatively new, but I would like to start off with a book that can cater these prominent issues for me.

As others have said, don't neglect your friends unless they're actually making you a worse person. They can't make you lazy. Only you control your actions or lack of, so if you want to get something done and they're wasting time then just tell them "sorry but I need to do this now". It's not ignoring them or attacking their character, just setting boundaries for yourself. It sounds like you're a school student. As a teacher I'm sure you are surrounded by opportunities to try stuff and do stuff right now. Try a club at lunch that you've never considered. Invite your friends to it as well and if they don't want to you can meet new people who might share your values. Talk to your own teachers more after or outside of lessons. They probably aren't stoics but they have empathy and the wisdom of experience. They can give you advice if you're finding work hard and suggest ways to learn more and feel more productive. They care about you more than you expect. Think carefully about what you do throughout the day. Literally write down what you do each hour or 30 minutes and identify what things you feel are a waste of time. Then choose a thing that you could be doing at any of those moments which isn't a waste. Maybe revising school work, maybe a hobby, maybe some exercise. Now every time you catch yourself wasting time tell yourself "This is a waste of my time, I should be doing X" You don't need a life plan. You're allowed to get it wrong sometimes. Make your ambition to be a better you than you were yesterday. Then everyday you get closer to who you'd rather be. Happy Christmas

Stoic advice on laziness, fear, no motivation, no ambition, concerned too much about other people

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She deals with depression and takes a myriad of pills for various issues. She's overweight (probably obese) and pretty much only eats junk. She comes home, goes upstairs, turns on the TV, and rarely leaves her bed. She snacks the whole time or eats giant amounts of ice cream and other junk. She used to ask me to bring snacks and soda to her, but rarely does anymore due to me refusing and us getting into an argument. One time I refused to go get her a pizza, and she was furious. I basically told her that if she was going to drive her health into the ground, I wasn't going to help her, and that I was doing this out of love because what she's doing is bad for her. I was called a bitch, she took my car keys, and accused me of being ungrateful and acting like I know everything. I asked for her perspective and why she was getting so angry, but didn't get an answer. She's sick now, and it's up to me to take care of her (I'm 17), which means bringing her food, which is of course garbage. I offer to make her things and she doesn't want them. I honestly cried today getting her a meal because I felt like I was helping her early demise and her misery. Every time I get her something unhealthy I feel like I'm actively hurting her. I've tried to get her to go to fitness classes with me, I've offered to give her recipe ideas, I've offered to give her the food I make, but she always chooses her current lifestyle and wonders why she's starting to feel bad all the time. Every time she's on the verge of deciding to be healthier I offer my full support, but in the end it goes back to the way it's always been. I don't know what to do. I'll hopefully be moving out at some point in the next year or two, but until then, I'm here worrying about her and secretly hoping she doesn't ask me to get her something. I don't know how to approach this situation from a stoic perspective. Refusing to help her be miserable has direct consequences on my life and drives rifts between us. ​ Edit: There are quite a few replies here, so I might not answer them all at once, but know that I've read them all. Thank you all for your advice

Unfortunately at the end of the day if people choose not to be helped they cannot be helped. Do not let her attitude flood into your life. Love her and live virtuously and maybe she will follow suit but if not this is not up to you and you must let go of the idea that it is.

My mother is destroying her health and is guilt-tripping me into helping

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I think I sexually abused my own little brother when I was younger and I cant move on. I am a 23 year old guy. Fuck, I don't even know how to write an intro. I am just desperate for help, advice, anything. I have had a very very rough year. I have a younger brother, he is about 7 years younger than me. We have a good relationship, he has always seen me as his big brother, the one that he looks up to. When we were younger he used to sometimes sleep in my bed, because we both enjoyed that or whatever, i dont even remember. There is one thing that I remember from this time. I think I was 14 years old at the time. He mustve been 6 or 7. I have no explanation for this, but for some reason I was super curious how it would be to have sex, and how that would feel etc. So one night when my brother and I were sleeping together, I pulled down his pants while he was asleep and tried to penetrate him. I'm pretty sure I didn't "force" because I didn't want to wake him up, so I am pretty sure that there was never any penetration. When I did this however, he woke up though, or maybe he was not even asleep. He seemed upset asked me what I was doing, and I felt scared and emberassed. I immediately realized I fucked up big time. I told him I was just joking around, and that I would never do it again. It was never mentioned again. About a year after this had happened, i was probably 15 at this point, I had a panic attack out of nowhere. It was like I suddenly realized I had actually done something VERY bad. Like, I didn't realize before. The thought that I may have abused my own little brother made my world collapse. He is the one that I am supposed to protect, the one that he is supposed to look up to, and now I did this to him? I felt constant guilt, shame and anxiety. This lasted for about a year. School went to shit, etc. But for some reason, and I dont exactly remember how this happened, I just kind of got to live with it. It didnt bother me as much, and I realised I was probably overreacting as he might not even remember it, and even if he did, he might not think anything of it other than just an awkward moment, not as 'abuse'. I just convinced myself it wasnt a big deal. I lived normally, and school starting going well again. I went to university, and the first year was amazing. Things were looking up. Then, 4 years ago, I was driving home from the gym, and all of a sudden this thought entered my mind again. Within a split second all the feelings that i had before came back. I had a massive panic attack. I wanted to die. The guilt. The shame. Everything came back. Ever since that moment, this is all I can think about. I havent been to university in about 3 years, my days are spent trying to distract myself by playing videogames. Any moment that i am left alone with my mind, this is all i cant think about. All i can think about is the guilt, and i question all the time if this will affect him. That's basically where all the anxiety stems from; the fear that he will remember, and that it will impact him. I dont really know what to do. It's been a year, and even though some days are better than others, this is still unbearable. I feel like i will never get over this unless i talk to him about this, but then im afraid that talking about it might actually trigger something for him. Idk, im just so anxious. I am so sorry. It feels like this will always be a big factor in my life. That I'll never get over it. Right now I am not functioning at all and no idea how to accept this. Any help is much appreciated.

I m a teacher and I spent most of last year in a grade 8 class. Let me tell you, that's the age where they do lots of really stupid things. It's peak stupidity IMO. So you aren't alone with that. You did something stupid a decade ago when you were a minor. You feel bad about it, and it's probably good you feel bad about it, but it's not something that should destroy your life now. As mentioned you should seek a therapist. I bet they would help. Never hurts to read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Why not. For the record, I don't think you are a bad person by the sounds of it. Kids do stupid things.

I cant deal with this guilt. Please, any Stoic advice?

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My Grandfather was not really the talking type but I've always understood him my grandfather is Somali and was born out in no man's land he never really talked a lot but when he did I always listened he told me a very useful advice idk if there is something stoic about it but if so tell me Back in 2018 when I was 13 he told me something in Somali and I remember it he said "we plan our entire life way before we even know what life is like and we never really knew that life never goes our way and it's one of the best and worst thing depending on how it works for you when your life doesn't go your way you sometimes find it beautiful that it doesn't since it leads you to something that you could've never imagined" I think my grandpa is stoic but I couldn't find anything on what he told me is there something like this?

Profound. The only words that come to mind are from Epictetus : "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." -- Epictetus

Words from my grandfather who was born in 1942

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The way I understand stoicism is that uncontrollable things happen to humans and we must learn to bear it with grace. But does the philosophy apply to our mistakes? 7 years ago I made a huge mistake that caused my fall from a very high paying career. I was depressed and had ADHD, but I didn't know this back then. Now I'm trying to put my life back together. The path forward for me now is harsh but no matter what I do, ill never make it back to the heights I used to be in. Knowing I had full control over my life and still made mistakes is something Im struggling to be stoic about. Does anybody have advice?

You may have had control at the time but you don't have control over those events *now*. The ship has already sailed. All you can control now is your commitment to not repeating past mistakes and making amends however appropriate, if other people (or even if you alone) were negatively affected. You can control/influence your own forgiveness of yourself, but you can't control others' forgiveness. Sometimes we apologise and make amends as best we can and those apologies and amends won't be accepted by those we've wronged, but it's still within our control to learn to accept that.

How to be stoic about past mistakes that you had total control over?

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I recently bumped into an old friend of mine. A few minutes after we met, she launched into a rant about her heavy workload in school and her unforgiving teachers. Before I had discovered Stoicism, I would usually mirror people's behavior and try to find something to complain about my day too, or maybe sympathize with her by telling her that she was definitely in the right. But now that I know that venting about my problems and participating in unhealthy gossip doesn't do anyone good, I have no idea how to respond to encounters like this. She was not looking for advice (she was complaining about something she could not control) and I had no idea how to comfort her without seeming insensitive or preachy. Have you guys experienced this sort of situation before? How did you deal with it in a Stoic way?

Be strict on yourself not the others.

How do you handle other people's complaining in a Stoic manner?

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Hello, I typically laugh off harsh criticism and let it escape my mind, however, there are certain days and moments where it gets to me and burdens my mind more than it should. Any stoic advice y'all have to advise me to productively move on from it? Thank you.

Consider the source. Would you regard the cawing of a scrub jay as serious? Honest feedback from someone you respect is worth examining; jaw-flapping from some random yahoo in your vicinity, not so much.

How to disregard hateful rhetoric (trash talk) you are receiving?

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**EDIT / Disclaimer:** I'm not looking for quotes or theoretical advice, but rather interested to know how you personally handle this kind of stuff and if you manage to stay truly stoic at all times. Misinformation and hate are peaking. The world is more divided than ever. People seem to be getting more stupid, although there is an abundance of knowledge available. Even the educated people are going crazy. We seem to be heading into a version of WW3. AI developments are leading us into an unknown we don't control. etc. I'm not a scholar of stoicism, but have been somewhat abiding by its principles. The more I spend time thinking about stuff the more desperate and nihilistic I become. Feels like the only way to stay sane is to move somewhere in the woods, buy some land and live there. How are you guys doing it?

You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength. ...Marcus Aurelius

How many of you manage to stay truly stoic during these times and how?

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Hi all. I'm the one who made the poll about buying the leather bound Meditations. I'm a big Ryan Holiday fan. I read all his books, and I credit the Obstacle is the Way with helping me get the strength to pull myself out of personal devastation last year. Now I use and recommend the "Obstacle is the Way" approach to solve any problem. I also read other popular Stoic books, am working my way through the ancient texts, and do "Aurelius Journaling" where I pick a random passage from Meditations every day and journal about. I am a committed Stoic, understand the principles, but know I have a lot to learn, so I come on r/stocism to learn, and many of you have been generous with the gift of your time to teach me, so thanks to the community. That's me. I know Ryan Holiday is controversial on here, and I spent a lot of time defending him. Maybe I feel that I should because he book helped me so much. Today's Daily Stoic e-mail was about how you don't need much money to be happy, that you should enjoy free or inexpensive things, and it's a waste of time to spend all your time working to earn money to buy luxuries. He passed on the advice of rock star Warren Zevon, (of Werewolves of London fame) when told he has terminal cancer, suggested to "enjoy every sandwhich." He said this reminds us of the Stoic moto of Momento Mori.....then he pushed the reader to buy his $30 Momento Mori coin (which I bought before). Therefore, I like to ask the community if we could have an open minded discussion on if Ryan Holiday is a hypocrite. He is weathky and lives on a gigantic ranch, and while he posts practical tips to have work-life balance and says he makes time for his young children everyday, he must work more than 40 hours a week and spend a lot of time away from home a week with how prolific he is with his writing and videos, promoting his work, running a physical bookstore, running his online store, and traveling the county for speaking engagements. We all need to earn a living, and I have no problem with wealthy people. Ryan has already made more than I will make in my lifetime. Retiring early I believe is unhealthy. But if he is truly not into making as much money as possible, why doesn't just writer books, which I'm sure would be a full time job, and quit all these sides gigs? If he makes less money, he can still live an above average lifestyle. That's what I know about him and the questions I ask I pose to the community, to get a debate on the table with this prompt: "Is Ryan Holiday a hypocrite for teaching the value of not working too hard and enjoying inexpensive things, while he works a lot more than needed and lives a luxury lifestyle?"

Concerning ourselves or speculating what/why other people say and do, in general, isn't a particularly Stoic thing ;) If he puts the concept of Stoic philosophy out there for people to consider and see if it works for them, I think that's a good thing. How much money he might make off of it or what his hourly schedule is - I couldn't care less.

Ryan Holiday Debate

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I'm confusing myself to the point where I feel I one day might become clinically insane. I'm overall a pretty confident dude, but in EVERY SINGLE interaction I'm involved in, I feel forced to play it 'strategically' in hopes to be enjoyed by the other person, especially women. Even a simple 'hi' feels like I'm being tested... As if it's a game. I always feel like I need to have the perfect response in the moment, otherwise I'm not worthy. I need some stoic advice to detach myself from my ego or fear of rejection or whatever the hell it is that I'm facing. I'm open to any and all advice, no matter how harsh it may be, I just want to be set free. Sometimes I feel like I wished I was dumb, only because the smart overthink and create their own troubles, even though they may not necessarily be real.

Tell the truth in everything you say, so when the time comes you will never ever face hardship

I'm trapped in my head

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So many posts here come from a place of wisdom and optimism. This isn't one (sorry). But I hope someone can either relate or provide me some wisdom. I want to want to say I'm a good stoic. I've followed it's principles for years and keep a copy of the Enchiridion on my desk which I read in Greek. But this past year I've suffered from debilitating bladder issues in my early 30s. My dream trip to Rome I ended up having to accomplish wearing a diaper. It's caused me to always feel anxious and doomed. I know that my body is one of those things "not in my control", but now that it feels like it's turned against me I find myself no longer able to withhold from "finding fault". As much as I want to say "it's nothing to me" it feels empty now when it rules my moment to moment. Then this week I've had a bad case of what's probably just stomach flu. It's getting slowly better snd I've seen the doctor. But with everything going on, I feel hyper-anxious it's connected to my underline issue or that I'll develop a chronic stomach issue like my mom. Don't worry I'm not looking for medical advice here but practical. I simply feel like when I read Stoic works now ... it goes in one ear and out the other. I put it down and just start worrying again. Now that my body seems to be set against me, I can't seem to push past it no matter how hard I try. Any advice or comfort is most welcomed. Thanks to anyone that read my full post.

I've been here as well. The only thing that benefited me during this time are the following: 1) Doing systems check on things that are still good. Eyes can still see? Check. Legs can still walk? Check. I'm grateful for the things that are still good and know it could be worse. 2) Do my best to find the cause of my ailment and do everything in my power to get it fixed. This may mean lots of research, visit to teaching hospitals, Mayo Clinic, etc. 3) Remind myself this may not be forever, things can be fixed or improve on their own. Sometimes things that alluded you and doctors for years is the answer. Keep looking. I just want to say best of luck with this. Chronic illnesses steal from your life. I had chronic pain from a pelvic disorder for nearly a decade. Completely changed the direction of my life. Best of luck to you.

Being chronically sick has made my practice 100x harder

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Good day all I have been studying stoicism for about 2 years now but have recently faced legitimate struggles and I would appreciate any concrete practices to stay stoic during these tough times. ​ So the context being that I stay in South Africa, I have had many personal struggles (like everyone) and those have been handled fairly well. But the current situation in South Africa is that our power grid is failing with rolling blackouts being a permanent fixture. A week ago we were without power for multiple timeslots adding up to 10.5 hours daily without power. Obviously, this is terrible for a country with a already struggling economy and makes the overall outlook quite bleak. I would appreciate any \*practical\* advice on how to stay stoic during this? I understand that none of this is in my control, so I should not let it bother me on such a fundamental level where I can't sleep at night. But I cannot see myself starting a family in this country with the future being so unsure. I look around at the people of my country and I feel a deep sadness and hopelessness inside me. Any advice/anecdotal experience/writings on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

>I would appreciate any \*practical\* advice on how to stay stoic during this? I understand that none of this is in my control, so I should not let it bother me It really is a shame that so many people say this, because if people are telling you "don't let it bother you" they don't comprehend the dichotomy of control - you cannot *instruct* a person to feel one way or another, because we control our reasoning but not our conclusions. You have reasoned that the situation is so dire that it's not even worth going to sleep - you believe that it's at a point where constant vigilance is required to secure your future. Ok, so you've assessed that you need extra time at night to plan. Well, what are you achieving in that time? Are you writing anything down? Are you investigating anything? If not, then the immediate problem is that you don't productively use the time you've assessed you need to take, so buy a pen and paper (it sounds like a computer is likely to flick off due to a power cut anyway) and start organising your thoughts into something resembling an analysis of the situation and what your options are. Make that your mission tonight - don't try to make yourself sleep, because if you assess that you need to be vigilant more than to sleep, you simply won't be able to sleep. But by writing nothing down and complaining about the feeling the assessment produces, you stop the task ever being "done" - if you were systematic and productive in the time you're taking to stay awake, you might find the task of planning what your move is would be "done" relatively quickly.

Staying stoic in a crumbling country

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I discovered this subreddit about 3 days ago, and I've been reading as much as I can, but I still need advice. 9 months ago, my wife began behaving differently. She was introduced to a new "friend" by a former co-worker. 62 days ago, I saw a video, where this new "friend" casually sexually assaulted my wife, and my wife wasn't bothered by it. I was bothered by it. We had a "calm" fight and I accused her of cheating on me. My wife told me that she was not cheating on me, but she was unhappy, and had several regrets about our marriage. She has been the love of my life for 14 years, and given me 2 beautiful children. I would do anything for her, and for my family. She had absolutely no interest in counseling. So like an idiot, I broke up with her, or "returned her", so that she may find happiness with her "friend". It has been 62 days. I can report, that my wife is indeed very happy with her "friend". I wish I could say I was happy for her, that I am happy that I was able to do something for her happiness, but I am not. With all the stoic principles that I've been studying, I'm still crying every day. Aurelius, Epictetus, and Seneca's words are in my head, but none of it is helping. My therapist finds it interesting that I seem to still be infatuated with my wife, as if the "honeymoon phase" never ended. I've heard "Time heals all wounds" so many times, I've rolled my eyes until I became dizzy. I have friends, I exercise, I play with my children, I have a full-time job, and it still hurts. Maybe someone reading this has the "magic phrase" or analogy to snap me out of this "whatever" I'm feeling.

You actually did exceedingly well - your wife was determined to lie about the affair she was having with this person, and you saw through it and did the appropriate thing even though she was actively trying to deceive you. It's a shame you say "Like an idiot I broke up with her", because actually you behaved in a distinctly non-idiotic way - you chose to be single rather than choosing to be a cuckold, which demonstrated the virtues of courage and justice. This is the essence of Stoicism. Your problem now is that you're still thinking about your wife - you've "half" chosen to leave and are half thinking about somehow resurrecting the relationship. You will begin to feel progressively better when you firmly fix in your mind that your course forward is "establish a new life as a single person". Here's a quick hack that'll get you there faster - during your next therapy session, make a pledge to yourself not to mention your wife a single time (and, if you mention her accidentally, say "actually I don't want to talk about that"). Instead, focus the entire session on nothing except "how to go about setting up my own life away from my wife, and conducting the divorce".

Marriage Separation

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I've accepted that I'm going to be single forever and I'm wondering if there's any stoic perspective on how to cope with such a fundamental human desire being thwarted forever. P.S. please to answer the actual question and not give me dating advice.

Epictetus may serve as a role model for you. He never married and had no children. In later life he adopted a child and hired a woman to help care for her. As far as we can tell, he invested his life fully in teaching Stoicism. Other people who never married and yet led significant lives include Jane Austen, Beethoven, Isaac Newton, Queen Elizabeth I, Florence Nightingale and Nikola Tesla. I knew someone who lived and died without ever finding the relationship happiness she was looking for. It does happen, but it doesn't mean your life has to be miserable and meaningless.

Does stoicism offer any advice on coping with being "forever alone"?

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I've been going through a rough patch at university, and I wouldn't say I'm being bullied, but the teasing and making fun that I have to endure is starting to cross a line. Let me explain. This will take a while. I have to deal with boys at class who make fun of my language accent (my native language is not my first language; I'm not fluent in it). I had a private education while they had a public one, so they poke fun at me for that. I'm the Class Prefect, of a sort, so they make fun that who chose ME of all people to be a Prefect. I've tried staying Stoic. A few days ago, I was sitting quietly in class during break and minding my own business when one of the boys came to me and asked me if I was okay and if he ever said anything that hurt me. Naturally, I thought he wanted to make amends and said it was all good. Not even a minute passed and he started making fun of me in front of the entire class on my English accent. I wanted to pummel him so bad, but I stayed quiet. This morning, I got in trouble with the teacher for something the same boy and a few others did that they blamed on me (I won't go into details), and the teacher was convinced I was involved being the Class Prefect. I exposed the boy and said that he was the one who did it, which my teacher didn't believe, and which gave the boys an opportunity to tease and make fun of me even more. My parents have said that the only way to deal with this is to show them I'm not bothered, take part in their jokes and fun, and they'll back off. I understand where they're coming from, and this advice would probably work with other boys, but these ones are SPECIAL cases. I'm torn between trying my parents' advice and staying Stoic. The truth is, what else could Stoicism instruct me to do? I've tried staying quiet, when one of them holds me on the arm or shoulder for too long, I politely tell them to remove it. I've stayed unsmiling, and stayed far away from them as possible. But I still need help, or advice if I'm doing something wrong. Please help.

The Stoics tell us to look for the nature or *logos* of things. That means understanding why things are happening and what makes them work. Most young men aren't too different from dogs, in the sense that they have a pack hierarchy which constantly has to be reinforced through acts of aggression and submission. Your role in this situation probably has nothing to do with you personally, although the fact that you have status (as class prefect) probably makes you a target. It sounds like you might have a higher socioeconomic status, too, which also makes you a target. It also sounds like you don't have any kind of support network around you to back you up, so this also makes you an attractive target. Basically, you can think about what's happening to you as a form of economic exchange. The boys are taking a minimal risk (i.e. of you retaliating, or them getting in trouble) in bothering you, and you are giving them a source of emotional drama which they're using to validate and confirm their status amongst each other. Given that nature of the situation, your options are to either make the risk too expensive, or make the social reward for bothering you too little.

What is the Stoic approach to bullies?

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I've been feeling behind in life lately. I see my friends in college getting internships left and right, getting work where I seem to be struggling to find even a part-time job. How would the Stoic handle 1) the feeling of envy and being left behind by people who seem to be making more progress 2) the lowered self-worth and panic that comes with that 3) fears of the future?

I'm 42. Made a lot of bad decisions, struggled with mental illness, and had some bad luck. I am still here and most of the time I am okay. There is no one worth trying to impress anymore. I don't need to be approved of by anyone. I don't care how anyone judges me. Call me a loser. Whatever. Fine. So I'm a loser. Will that be all? Okay then. Why are you envious? Do you think if you had what they had, it would be "enough" or would you crave even more? You would find someone else to envy even if your financial stats were up and CV looked nicer. You would crave the next step up. And the next. You can go your whole career clawing, fighting your way up and at the end of 40 years of being a miserable cunt, you think you'll be able to switch all that off and allow yourself to be happy. Flip the switch now if you can do it. As for the rest, trust in yourself to survive. You're an adult, you'll figure it out.

Stoic advice on feeling behind

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This happens to me many times. I tend to forget my stoic ideas and values easily in a matter of few days. Then I remember on a random day "oh damn, I was following stoicism, almost forgot." When this happens, I go back to stoicism related articles and renew the knowledge again, the loop continues. I need advice to remember stoic values for a long time. Its starting to get a little stressful. [also, I'm quite new to stoicism]

>When this happens, I go back to stoicism related articles and renew the knowledge again, the loop continues. Then the simplest solution is to read Stoicism-related articles every day. You can also make it a practice to read one Discourse of Epictetus, or one letter by Seneca every day and reflect on them.

Advice when you feel like you're out of touch with your stoic values.

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I just moved out alone and started a real job, 8-16 every day. I find myself being lonely often at night, this makes me more often use cannabis as a relief. Not being in a relationship with someone makes me feel empty and stuck in past relationships, which only strengthens the feeling of loneliness. I know that a stoic would and should not rely on other people to make him/her feel content in life, but I lack the mindfulness to incorporate this philosophy. I'm 25 and feel I've missed all opportunities to find a romantic partner, I know this is irrational. but I'm looking for some advice on how to tackle the feeling of loneliness. Currently reading discourses but having trouble understanding some of it. If someone has a specific passage from the book they would like to share their interpretation on, what would be great Edit: Hey guys thank you so much for all the great responses, I truly appreciate it and hope others can find comfort in some of the replies. I will answer the remaining comments tomorrow 23/09, hope you all have a amazing night

I don't think you should romanticize the idea of being in a relationship. A relationship will not fix your issues. If loneliness is your problem, then the solution is simple. Seek out some social hobby. Join a local sports team. Volunteer somewhere, join a board game group etc. A relationship is not the only cure for loneliness.

Loneliness and constant fear of never finding a partner

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I'm 23 years old. I just recently had bloodwork taken. My doctor called me and mentioned my levels are on the lower side at 390. The average man my age has around 650-700. I will admit that I do have a bit of a feminine side to me. I didn't have a father figure growing up. My mom was my role model. She is genuinely such an incredible woman. She's a teacher, and goes through massive extents for others. Hence why Seneca's quote of "You must live for others if you wish to live for yourself" resonates with me heavily. I feel embarrassed to have lower testosterone levels. I have come here to get insight from the Stoic community. I would greatly appreciate anyone who can provide me advice.

Does missing an arm make you less of a man? Missing a leg? >I will admit that I do have a bit of a feminine side to me. both physical genders have masculine and feminine traits in them. even down to testosterone and estrogen: men and women have both. you have internalized some rather harmful notions about masculinity but the good news is that masculinity has been evolving past the brutish primitive view of "what it means to be a man" for some time now.

Does having lower testosterone levels make me less of a man?

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Some days I talk too much and annoy people around me. Its starting to become a habit, I know talking is in my control, but sometimes I can't help it. Any stoic advice to deal with this ?

Maybe before you talk you can think to yourself, "is the person going to find this story interesting? Would i find this interesting?" 8 times out of 10 the answer is probably no, at least for me it is.

Stoic advice for someone who talks excessively.

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I tend to assume the worst case scenario in the majority of situations I'm in. I don't know why I do this, but for quite some time this is how my brain operates. For example, last week I met a really nice girl at an event and we exchanged phone numbers. I sent her a message asking if she wanted to meet up for a drink sometime, and she never responded (even 2-3 days later), so I naturally assumed she wasn't interested. Stoicism helped me with this, as I told myself "So what if she's not interested? How does that affect you? You did what you could, now forget about it and move on." But today she sent me a message apologizing for the lack of response, as she had a busy weekend, and she expressed enthusiasm at meeting for a drink. The entire time I was following the false perception generated by my brain, that she wasn't interested - because I assumed that based on the characteristics of the situation, as anyone would. How do I overcome this? The Stoics say to view reality through an objective lens, without any misperceptions, but my entire life I've formed conclusions without necessarily having all the evidence - don't we all do that to varying degrees? Isn't it pattern recognition or something; an evolutionary mechanism? Would appreciate some advice!

I'd say assuming the worst case scenario can be the best thing you can do. We call it the premeditation of evils. It lets you prepare for the worst. That gives you confidence to deal with such a scenario if it should arise. When it doesn't arise, you've already braced for worse and can enjoy the "easier" experience. It was one way, now it's another. It was raining, now it's not. That's life. You can have no opinions about these things or "reserve judgment". Leave it at what has occurred. Just state the fact of the situation and move on. The same event could be interpreted many ways. If they had interest "they'd make time to reply". The inverse, "they're clearly interested, they didn't have to send you a message". Why go through them all? Even with what you did do, just reevaluate once the situation changes. You can be flexible. Act rightly in the scenario that presents itself, let that be enough. In this way, we don't need to prepare because we always have the tool for the job, our reason. It's origin isn't all that necessary. The Stoics wrote such useful techniques without our modern theories. If we can find something better, great. Follow your curiosity but don't assume it's necessary to change what's occurring. Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.

How do I stop assuming the worst in situations?

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My mother was a psychopath narcissist. She literally stole my childhood. Every penny that was meant for her children she stole because her whole marriage to a relatively wealthy guy was a scam to siphon money into a retirement fund. She literally treated motherhood like it was a job she had to do and very poorly at that. She took yearly holidays with the money she stole. Anyway, long story short, she ruined my childhood. I'm not a normal person in terms of social interaction and always felt 10 years behind my peers in development. I'm in my mid-40s now and going to regular therapy. I try to practice gratitude for my life but I get constant reminders still of how much I lost. In addition to her stealing, she was also physically, verbally abusive and practically imprisoned us in our house. Being threatened murder for the smallest things was normal. I'm trying my best to focus now on the present, but there are times when I get extremely angry that I picture violently murdering that woman or desperately wishing her dead. I know it's not healthy and I'm still allowing her to hurt me. What would a stoic advise to someone like me?

Hi Onyx. I experienced child abuse too, and my advice is not to attempt Stoicism yet. It sounds like you're in a stage of processing your anger and grief about your experiences. That's going to suck for a while, but you've got to get through it before you can get past it. Terms like forgiveness, letting go, moving on are going to be pie in the sky for you right now, and that's ok. You're asking how to run a marathon on a broken leg. Get the leg fixed first, then come back and see about some training. Stoicism will still be here.

What is a Stoic's advice for someone who experienced child abuse?

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So a few weeks ago my ex girlfriend broke up with me out of the blue, totally took me by surprise and has left me in a situation that makes me feel sort of hopeless.....but I know I will come out of this,I have power over my mind and not outside events, I am Just looking for a bit more advice and some words of encouragement from my fellow stoics. So here we go... Me and my girlfriend had agreed that I would move into her house as I live 45-minute drive away from where she lives, we made a plan and i started to put the pieces into place to put the plan into action, over the part of 3 months I made my plan of action and started to think about the future of us together, like what type of job would I be looking out for, what kinda stuff will I cook her for dinner....just all that kind of stuff you think about when taking a relationship to the next level, it was my chance to look after her and make her feel totally looked after. I was so excited about everything, me leaving my job of 11 year's that I hated, me moving out of my hometown to be with the love of my life...or so I thought. Everything was perfect, there wasn't a ripple in the water to tell me that she was thinking about leaving me, like literally nothing, her communication didn't change, her response to text messages didn't change, it was perfect like it has been for the past 13 months. Usually us guys kind of get an inclination that's something is wrong, you know when you say " is everything ok ? You been really quiet the last few weeks and you don't seem yourself " that usually leads into the discussion on her end about the breakup but that never happened because she showed no signs of unhappiness or distress about being in a relationship with me..... literally nothing at all. We celebrated her 30th birthday together on a Saturday and we went to a karaoke bar with her friends and family again noting seemed out of question we had amazing time and had an amazing day the next day just kind of having a lazy day and talking about her birthday party, again everything was normal. 2 days later it's Monday and I handed in my 2 week notice of leave to my boss and told him I'm leaving to move out to my girlfriend, he was happy for me and wishes me the best of luck, I am now so fuckin happy that the end is in sight for this job and the next chapter of my life is about to start. The next day ( Tuesday ) is my own 30th birthday, we were supposed to do something on that coming weekend for my birthday because it fell on a Tuesday and the two of us were working, she called me that night for a birthday chat and said " we can do literally anything you want to do on the weekend for your birthday ".....again everything was completely normal and I was excited to celebrate my 30th birthday and me leaving my job with her on that Saturday coming. So, here we are, it's now Saturday morning, I arrive to her house, excited to go for dinner later for my birthday, I chat to her and her mom for a bit, she heads up to her room to get changed, after a while I head on up to her to see what she is at, I lay on the bed beside her and we chat for a few minutes.......... something feels off, I ask her " are you ok, is everything alright " She drops it on me that she doesn't think we are the right match for one another, I just sit there completely speechless.....not a word could I speak, I was in the same shock that I was in when my father passed away and I got that phone call to say " dad's gone man " I'm now about 4 weeks and a bit out of the break up, I have used my stoic teachings to realize that I do not own anybody and that any given time I have to give things back to the whole without question. That this is my faith, as painful as it is this is what my destiny is. But the thing is I am now jobless and broken hearted and I'm finding it very hard to focus, some days I focus on trying to find work and getting myself outside for a hike to clear my mind, and some other days I just can't get out of bed because I am dealing with the breakup side of this situation. it is like a double edge sword, one situation is just as hard as the order situation and trying to unpack it all is becoming a little bit hard. So I am asking my fellow stoics what would you recommend that I do in this situation and what insights can you give me that will help me along my path to recovery and to mending my broken heart. I'm dealing with two things, I'm dealing with being heartbroken and I'm dealing with low self-esteem about finding a job.....I'm really stressed about finding a job, I mean she could have ended things before I left my job ya know.....kinda a shit thing to do to someone. Any and all advice is welcome and I appreciate any help given. Thanks you

It sounds like your girlfriend had reservations about the relationship that she either didn't communicate or that you didn't hear. My guess is that the things she had committed to didn't become "real" to her until she was about to pull the trigger, and that is when she began to feel her doubts more acutely. Stoicism is all about reframing the events to your benefit. We cannot choose events, but we can choose how we think about them. The facts are that the relationship is over and you are without a job. Your imagined future is going to be different. That doesn't mean it will be bad \- that depends on how you look at it. On the plus side, you didn't move in with the girlfriend, live together for a year or two, and *then* have her suddenly end the relationship, which may have been more painful. You are not committed to the new location now and are free to find a new, better job, perhaps in a new area that you never would have considered if you were in that relationship. In five years you may look back at this as the fork in the road that let you have new experiences that led you to the person you were to become.

Being Stoic during a break up

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Today I need to choose a project of my scholarship program in college. I really dont know what to get and just that single thought makes me want to quit and have a burnout. I have constant panic or anxiety attacks about how Im going to deal with this and that. I entered to another project of a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago, and I feel kind of worried of not giving it my attention. Also I want to be better at school, build better habits, courses, and overall a more healthy life. I use notion as my software for more time management, but sometimes I feel I dont know how to say no, and even though I feel involucrated in a lot of good stuff, I feel my life as empty and shallow, also due to comparisons of others life and highlights. Any Stoic Advice, how can i eeally manage my time correctly by Stoicisim and how can I live my life plentiful with the life Im building? Thanks

First of all... You're suffering a bit right now right? Great! # Recognize the value of hardship Stoics believed that hardship can help us develop resilience and strength. Rather than avoiding difficult situations, embrace them as opportunities for growth and learning. Remember that the challenges you face today can help you become a better and more virtuous person in the long run. # Practice gratitude You're having a hard time right now, sure. Rather than focusing on what you lack, try to appreciate what you have. Take time each day to reflect on the good things in your life, such as your health, relationships, and opportunities. This can help you develop a more positive and fulfilling outlook. You're in college. You got a scholarship. That is awesome. # On saying "no" >*"I entered to another project of a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago, and I feel kind of worried of not giving it my attention."* \- You ​ >*"I feel I don't know how to say no, and even though I feel involucrated in a lot of good stuff"* \- You While it can be difficult to turn down opportunities, it's important to recognize that your time and energy are limited. Prioritize the activities that align with your goals and values, and learn to politely decline invitations or requests that do not. Nothing prevents you from reaching out to your friend and simply saying: "I feel guilty for not spending any time on your project, in hindsight, I shouldn't have agreed to help as I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and I need to prioritize differently the next couple of weeks." Honesty is best rather than let your friend jump to conclusions. # On Anxiety >"*Today I need to choose a project of my scholarship program in college. I really dont know what to get and just that single thought makes me want to quit and have a burnout. I have constant panic or anxiety attacks about how Im going to deal with this and that."* \- You You may want to see a therapist for 3-5 hours total to cover the basics of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) to learn how to cope with your anxiety and panic attacks. CBT finds its roots in Stoic Philosophy in the sense that it is based on the notion that emotions follow from thoughts. Impression of a situation -> Judgement of the situation -> Emotions. As such, the problem is not the emotion... nor the situation, but your judgement of it. Stoicism makes the claim that your judgement is irrational. Its hard to change that while you're in the midst of a crisis, hence why a therapist may be of help to just teach you some mindfulness and breathing techniques so you can take back control. # On picking a project >*"Today I need to choose a project of my scholarship program in college. I really dont know what to get and just that single thought makes me want to quit"* \- You Irrational judgements of situations lead to irrational aversions of situations. You want to quit because you want to avoid choosing. You want to avoid choosing because you don't want to make a bad decision and live with the consequences. Relax! You should not quit. What you should do is accept that you cannot always control the outcome of your actions and you need to go with the flow as new problems pop-up. Stoics believed in the importance of accepting events as they are, rather than trying to fight against them. Accept that there is a possibility of negative outcomes, and **focus on what you can control in the decision-making process**. 1. Identify the decision you need to make and what your options are. 2. Gather information about your options in the time you have. This may involve some research or talking to mentors and peers. 3. Write down the pros and cons of each option. 4. Make the decision: after considering the options, choose the one that aligns best with your goals and values. **Remember that no decision is without risk**, and it's important to **accept the possibility of negative outcomes** while focusing on what is within your control. 5. Have a bias for action: once you've decided, get to work. When you feel frustration or worry; ask yourself "what can I do?". And number 6... you wouldn't be a Stoic if you didn't take some time to reflect after your project if you made the right call... if it was worth stressing out about it... and what you would di differently in the future. # On comparing yourself to others >*"I feel my life as empty and shallow, also due to comparisons of others life and highlights"* \- You This is a very common human experience. I've definitely felt that way. I bet a lot of your fellow students feel that way. We live in a world now where one of your fellow students could potentially curate their online presence in such a way where it just looks like they are happy and successful while they might still feel miserable. My advice is to detach yourself consciously from what you see and stop attributing a "value" to what you see as good or bad. Because you don't really know if it is the whole truth... so why judge yourself through it? What matters is you. What you do. Your character, integrity and moral worth. That is what makes a good person. Not what you own, or how you look like. And definitely not what others own, or what they look like.

Having anxiety managing projects

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This person is my Dad. He has acted like a bully all his life. He is a good provider, there are definitely some good things about him as well. All goes well as long as you agree with him, but now the situation is no longer tolerable. I am in a place in my life that I personally don't need his support but I do need him to keep things stable at home. I feel to manage the situation is to bully him instead, I don't see any other way, but I do know it will have it's own repercussions. I do know it's not very stoic to think about what may happen, but bullying cannot be the answer right? Is there some stoic advice that anyone can provide on this?

Your dad sounds a lot like my mom. I've tried being the bigger person, talking to her about it, but no matter what I tried she didn't change, and I felt like I was being worse no matter what I did. So I'm leaving at the end of next year, because I won't let her ruin my life. Cutting people off is sometimes necessary, and the best option

How to deal with someone who does not listen to reason and is very short tempered?

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It's been 11 months since I got clean and part of that reason was just understanding myself and reading in to stoicism philosophy. I recently tried hydrocodone a weaker opiate and thought it would allow me to feel how I once did but after that night I just kept chasing the high and I'm back at my original dosage like before and I'm just so exhausted and frustrated with myself. I was wondering if anyone can give me stoic advice on how to make a change, I just have no where else to go and this philosophy has been the only positive thing in my life.

Context: I'm a former addict with four years of clean time (terrifying how time flies) who has been practicing Stoicism for about that length of time. Everyone relapses their way sober - that 11 months was far from "nothing", and even though you'll be resetting your clean time, this next phase will be *far* easier than the phase before. I had about a year too before I relapsed - that was my last relapse prior to this four-year span. Stoicism is not a tool for getting sober - right now you're thinking of drugs like they're a bad habit. The fact that you thought weaker drugs might help means you're still saying "the problem isn't drugs - they're not unique, the problem is *me*". Well, after 11 months you must have felt pretty fixed - and if drugs aren't the problem you may as well turn to them. You probably were fixed too. The issue is that drugs *were* the problem - they aren't like any other substance or bad habit, they're unique and have a unique neurochemistry that specifically facilitates the formation of addiction. I'm aware 12-steps completely fuck this point up by saying that addiction is a spiritual problem in the addict - it is not, addiction is a biochemical phenomenon. The problem isn't you, it's the drug - the drugs *create* your spiritual problem. That said, I still attended a 12-step fellowship simply to be accountable to others, even if I do not believe their "spiritual" advice is any use: recovering from addiction often requires you to eat humble pie in that way, and to be prepared to make things work even if they're less than ideal. If you haven't already, you need to find one of those spaces (so 12-steps or SMART) and admit what's happened and be accountable to people. Stoicism will just become your excuse for using if you try to make it a tool of recovery. Once you've sobered up and amassed a little clean time, then think "Stoicism". Personally, it worked for me after I'd detoxed to partial functionality, which took around 3 months.

Relapsed on oxy

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I have been working on handling my emotions and communicating objectively in all aspects of life and it has been immensely helpful but I cannot control my emotions when someone is certainly wrong but raise their voice, yell and do everything possible to stop me from stating my points. When I have material and logical proof that the person is wrong and all they want is to twist the scenario to make me look like I've done a mistake, I just can't seem to stay calm and collected. The worst part is, logic and reasoning don't matter to these people as much as proving their point does. Although it doesn't make me feel any better, I tend to raise my voice in order to defend myself and walk out. Even though I prepare myself before meeting with such people, I just cannot seem to handle it when this unfurls. Any stoic advice is appreciated

The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury It is said that one day the Buddha was walking through a village. A very angry and rude young man came up and began insulting him, saying all kind of rude words. The Buddha was not upset by these insults. Instead he asked the young man, "Tell me, if you buy a gift for someone, and that person does not take it, to whom does the gift belong?" The young man was surprised to be asked such a strange question and answered, "It would belong to me, because I bought the gift." The Buddha smiled and said, "That is correct. And it is exactly the same with your anger. If you become angry with me and I do not get insulted, then the anger falls back on you. You are then the only one who becomes unhappy, not me. All you have done is hurt yourself."

How would you handle being blamed for something you didn't do in a stoic way?

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Don't worry, this isn't actually an advice thread. But I didn't see a "stoic practice discussion" flair. Mods, if you have a suggestion of a more appropriate flair, I'm all ears. I was curious to ask the group: How (if at all) has your study of stoicism affected how you respond to conversation starters that putatively ask you to make a value judgment on your life (e.g. How are you, how's it going)? Does that answer change depending on whether the "how's it going" is coming from an acquaintance or a friend? Do you ask other people how they are, or do you ask them something else? I've just noticed that this invitation to pass a judgment (good, bad, hangin in there, living the dream) on my experience occurs so many times in the day. I've wondered if there is a way to respond that would help me practice the disciplines but (let me be emphatic here) not make me sound like a total weirdo or have the secret goal of showing off. For example, I would not respond to a colleague's "what's good, my dude?"with "Well actually Doug, a student of stoic philosophy, I find that the only good is located in my virtuous response to whatever external situation arises." But I wonder if anyone has a way to respond that actually strengthens your own mindset while maintaining social cohesion and norms.

"Can't complain"

How does a stoic answer the question, "How are you?"

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I feel a bit pathetic. How to not let this stuff affect me in the future? I had a good Christmas but I have a habit of focusing on negatives and ruminating. All I keep thinking is how rude it is that someone who I considered a friend (14 years) wouldn't even acknowledge me wishing them a merry Christmas. What kind of person would ignore something like that? Are they even a friend? It takes 10 seconds to make a response. Are they playing games, as what kind of message is ignoring me meant to mean? The message has been read and this person only last week told me they were about and they would like to meet up over the holidays. So confused. I kind of think they're being manipulative as this has happened before and unless I message them on Xmas they won't say it to me first. They don't tend to message me on my bday unless I've messaged on theirs etc. Edit: Thanks to those who answered providing stoic advice. Some people here have just used my post to insult me and say nothing to do with stoicism. I'm here because I'm asking for support on how to reflect on something that bothers me and helps me to become a better stoic so there's no need to use this platform as a way to go off topic and be insulting or unkind. There's a reason I've put this issue into this r/ not a relationship one as I'm looking for specific stoic advice.

A possibility is that they saw the message, got distracted before they could reply and then just forgot about it. It happens to me all the time.

Spent all Xmas Day being annoyed that a friend didn't respond to my merry Christmas message

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TL;DR Any stoic writing on humility vs self-esteem. I'm generally a very humble person but people associate it as if i have no self esteem. I'm at a crossroads. A very good friend of wife, more like family who helps and is there for us in every time of our need discarded my work without any thought. I'm a designer and brand developer. I made a complete brand identity, YouTube and insta content starting from the logo to videos that were appreciated as some of the best. All for free. Imagine shooting, editing and creating 8 videos for free. She discarded the logo, plagiarised some artists logo from ShutterStock. Which was very Cringey. Treated most of my work as worthless and told me that it was too bad. They were very helpful when the wife had covid. Helped in our tough times but they have absolutely no work ethic. Now wife wants me to suck up my pride and go to their event but I feel too insulted. Update: Thank you for all the advice. It helped me and this community is full of wonderful people. I did go the event, after I went there I realised I gave too much power to the negativity and imagined pain over what actually went on. Use and control every situation to our advantage with Virtue.

Let it go, but don't forget it. Never do anything for them for free. You shouldn't really be doing free work for your family friends anyways. Discounted sure, but never free. It creates exact situations like this. No good man. Let go of the interaction, but don't be so naive as to make the same mistake twice.

Antagonising a close friend of the wife vs having no Self-Esteem.

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I have a painful psychological scar from something that happened decades ago. It was a colossal missed opportunity, an immense disappointment, a stupid "last minute" mistake which resulted in a personal failure which changed the trajectory of my life. I cannot simply let what happened go as if it were a type of pure external misfortune - such as a weather catastrophe or a stock market crash. *Some* of it was out of my control, sure. I can point to such things as the bad advice I got from others at the time, the unfair nature of the system which I was working within, or the simple fact that there was some critical information I just wasn't aware of at the time. However, what eats me up is knowing that if I had put a little more effort in, made just a few more strides forward in my path, talked to a few more people, been slightly less arrogant about my situation - I know I would have prevailed. In other words, part of it *was* in my control, but I failed to act on it. Is there a Stoic teaching I can look to to help me finally let go of this frustrating regret, this emotional wound - this particular kind of life misfortune that indeed I was partially responsible for?

Because it's in the past, it is beyond your control. The fact that it was in your control back then doesn't matter. It's beyond your control *now*. I know it's not easy and I struggle with my own regrets, but I just try to remind myself of this when it creeps up on me. It's just your mind screwing with you.

Stoicism advises us to let go of things we can't control, but how do we let go of something in our past we *could* have controlled, but didn't?

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My best friend and beloved cat Mochi suddenly passed away today and I am at a loss as to how to deal with it. I used to turn to this community a lot a few years ago, but I have fallen away since. Any advice or stoic quotes on how to best deal with this kind of loss is greatly appreciated.

I wrote this to help someone with the bereavement of a loved one, I hope you find it useful. I recognize that all of our time is finite, and it can end at any moment. Whether it is myself, or any other loved one, we will all die at some point, and cease to conciously exist. It does not make a difference how we feel about this information, it is eminant until proven otherwise. I tend to reflect on the positives that their lives have given the world. Even in the most tragic of scenarios, there is always meaning that can be found, and carried and shared with future generations. I find this is very related to how we value our own lives and the lives of others. If you only value the individual, and not the impact their existence has caused, then death is truely tragic. If you look at the way the world has been affected, and what has been shared, be it a moment, a lesson, words of wisdom, warnings of danger, or any other form of world interaction, we can take solace in the fact that they have existed, and have made a difference in the world. Being upset at the death of someone is a sign that they have impacted your life in a meaningful way. Think of all of the other people who would share your feelings of despair, and comiserate in the fact that you all have valued the time that was shared, and are thankful for their impact on you as an individual.

Advice on dealing with the loss of a beloved pet

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I repeated this over and over again in my head as I walked into the hospital room to see my dad for the first time in a few months. I said it as a I cried seeing how much his body had deteriorated. I said it as I sat in his hospital room with him for days on end. I said it as I cried back in my hotel room. Over and over again, hoping it would bring just a little bit of comfort. My dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer a few months ago. It came very suddenly, right after he moved all the way across the country. We went to go see him for a week about a month ago, and I'm going to see him again tomorrow. He's too sick for chemo now, so this will most likely be the last time I see him. I know I'll be repeating the same phrase hundreds of more times in the coming days. I've studied stoicism for a year or two now. One quote that had always struck a chord with me, even from my earliest days of studying, was from Xenophon. When he heard the news that his son had died, he calmly said, "I knew my son was a mortal." I thought it was rather admirable, how he accepted the ways of nature, realizing that death is also a part of life. And so, I decided to repeat it again and again as I went to see my dad. I'm having a hard time right now. I'm trying to allow myself to grieve without suppressing any emotions, while also trying to apply the stoic teachings. I've accepted it, but it's difficult to deal with it. This situation is hard, but it's a good test, and I suppose it will make me stronger once I come out of it. I'll be okay, even if it's rough right now. I'll cherish what little time I have left with my dad, and try to prepare for his passing as best I can. I knew my dad was a mortal. If anyone has any words of comfort or advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all for this wonderful subreddit. Edit; thank you all so much for your kind words and advice. I've been reading through each and every comment all day while I've been with my dad in the hospital again. I'll continue to look back on them for months to come. I'm doing my best to reply to everyone, but I'm just really exhausted. Just know that I really do appreciate it. Thank you all so much.

My dad was in hospital for 9 weeks with irreparable lung damage after smoking cigarettes for 45 years. Once the talk of palliative care came up, I went back to basics on momento mori and practised it every morning for the three weeks before he died so I could be strong for my family when the time came. It helped immensely that his death was telegraphed so far in advance and he basically chose to go rather than struggle on in the hospital anymore, which gave me ample time to put my stoic practice into use. Stocism has helped me immensely in my own life since I first started practising it in 2019 its biggest test came with the death of my father just under a month ago. I cried at the time and I miss him still, but having a philosophy of life to follow in difficult times and the wisdom to know that all these dead writers have gone through something similar and yet found peace on the other side of our human tragedy helps so so much. I understand where you are at in life OP and you have my sympathy. I urge you to remember you are not alone and we are all in this together and as Senaca said "the grief that has been conquered by reason is calmed for ever".

"I knew my dad was a mortal."

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I was r*ped. I'm having flashbacks and apparently showing symptoms of PTSD. it happened a few months short of a year ago, but it still triggers me time to time. I have had multiple tragedies happen in my life in the past year and was essentially forced to adopt a stoic perspective on life. I want advice on how to deal with rape and sexual assault using stoicism. I can handle seemingly "heartless" comments -- these might help actually. Please help. Don't just ignore this, I'm seriously in need.

Are you able to work with a therapist specializing in trauma?

How to deal with this

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I started reading more about Stoicism when my ex-girlfriend broke up with me recently. We had been in a relationship since we were 16, roughly 8.5 years of our lives. We were happy and both felt like we would grow old together. I'd always been a little insecure about the idea of never having had any other experience with dating/relationships (partly due to my sensitivity to such comments from friends), but I simply loved her too much to let this get in the way. After moving in together about a year ago we started to experience struggles personally, as well as in our relationship. This, along with a couple of other factors led me to initiate a break: I needed time for myself. After a couple of months, I wanted to try it again as I realized again how much she meant to me. Unfortunately, she didn't want this at the time, although in the following months she said multiple times that she felt that eventually we would be together again. A couple of months later (last week), she told me she was in a new relationship. There have been moments where I felt good about myself (I workout, invest in friends and try to meet new people), and the stoic principle of not focussing on external things you cannot control really resonated with me. However, lately I've found this has become increasingly difficult to keep up. She seems to be doing incredibly well based on what I see on social media (I should probably unfollow her, even though I'm scared of cutting ties), and I know from a stoic perspective that this should not be my business. However, it is getting increasingly harder to think and especially feel this way. It hurts that she moved on so quickly after an intense relationship like ours. At the same time I feel like it is my fault. There are times I'm overwhelmed with sadness, insecurities about myself, insecurities about the future, regret, anger, jealousy and an overarching sense of losing hope. Almost everything seems to remind me of her. There are moments where I can let her go, and then there are moments where hope is creeping in that one day we'll be back together (which I know is ridiculous). ​ Long story short, when these negative emotions become so strong that trying to meditate through them becomes too difficult, how can we deal with this from a stoic perspective? What are practical things we could do and fall back on, in order to cope with overwhelming emotions like these? ​ EDIT: Wanted to express my gratitude to all who took the time to read my post and share their views. Reading your personal experiences and stoic advice helped me to see things more clearly today, and I will definitely revisit this thread a lot the coming weeks. Thanks everyone.

Take this chance to purge old emotions... - So what if there is no hope? Is hope important? Is it real? - So what if someone has what you don't? Does it matter? - So what if you are single? Is it bad? - And what is your insecurity? How would you be without it? Quitting something 100% is 5x easier than quitting it 99%.

Hopelessness after long-term breakup: practical advice?

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Hey guys. Running into some (what i find to be) contradictory ideas between whether a stoic should choose to show patience and acceptance towards their old friend group, or simply choose to surround themself with people they aspire to be like. Any advice or relevant quotes from the stoics would be greatly appreciated. Im brand new to the practice btw.

Both. It makes no sense to lose old pals who are not dragging you down. If they drag you down and you cannot improve that situation without creating distance, then create distance. BTW, I recently did a comment in another thread on friendship that I thought brought up some interesting aspects to stoicism and friendships -- perhaps you'd benefit from it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/uzr9j8/about_friendship_and_reciprocity/iac51sq/

Surrounding yourself with new friends with similar aspirations versus keeping your oldest friends.

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The vicious cycle is like this: Stage 1: I get used to being a loner and find my own joy in doing various hobbies. My mind isn't clouded with unnecessary and destructive thoughts anymore. Restlessness goes away. In a way, I'm at peace and feel like I have at least in some level, followed Stoic principles that I am able to survive and persevere even in being completely alone. It's not that I avoid any socializing activities, but just that there are no chances for socializing and I don't go out of my way to do socializing. But it feels like a fake peace because I can feel some darkness just hiding around the corner, loneliness and anxiety, ready to strike anytime, in some short moments. I currently live and work in Japan but am not a Japanese, I'm an Asian foreigner. Stage 2: When I go back to my home country for a vacation, at the start, I don't go out that much to meet my old friends having gotten used to being alone but I get invited numerous times that I eventually spend time with them. Since it's not like I go home frequently, there's a significant amount of time in between that socializing with people kind of feels new and refreshing. I would enjoy the time however short it is since vacations aren't exactly long. Stage 3: The next stage of the cycle is when I go back to Japan, where my life is pretty much devoid of any socializing. In this stage, my mind just can't calm down. I'm filled with loneliness and anxiety, like a kid who's lost and wanting to go home. It's also in this stage that I would crave for intimacy especially with a girl. Like I want a girlfriend to spend time with and make memories. And since I have none of these things, this restlessness would pervade for even months. Then after a significant amount of time and slowly, I go back to the first stage, getting used to being a loner and kind of at peace. During the pandemic since I haven't been able to go back to my home country and have transitioned to work from home basically everyday only going to the office 1-3 times a year, I've learned to build my own gaming PC and started my hobby of growing rare plants and found joy in these. At the start, for quite some time, I was doing fine during the pandemic especially compared to those who have much more challenging circumstances. But then there's just this limit of having not socialized with another human being physically that for the past months, I can't help getting that bouts of loneliness and depression although not at the level of stage 3. There's no restlessness, just feeling melancholic. Then yesterday, I attended the year end party of the company, and I haven't attended a party for a very long time since in 2020, the cases were high here. There are new employees in the company and I got to know a girl who was attractive though I wasn't able to talk to her that much since I was shy and she went home pretty early. I stayed a little bit longer and talked to my colleagues some more, just about life, job, etc. When I got back to my room, the quietness compared to the liveliness and noise of the party just rings in my ears, it's like I went through the stages of the cycle again. There's this craving for more socializing, and this feeling of wanting to get to know more about that new employee attractive girl I just met. The restlessness and craving is intense to the point it drives me mad. I can't seem to get out of this cycle. During stage 1, because I'm at some kind of peace, I kind of have the tendency to believe that I am finally okay and fine being alone and spending much time with myself just to be proven wrong. Any advice would be much appreciated. I didn't tell my boss about this but I told him that my social life has become totally zero and he suggested I go to the office at least once every 2 weeks to have some socialization at least by eating lunch together for example. There's that worry of Omicron though.

One thing I see a lot of in this sub (and that I struggle with as well), is the inclination to turn inward. If only I could practice better acceptance, if only I could cultivate more awareness. I try to remind myself that the Stoics also emphasized our natural place as parts of a whole, citizens of the world. Epictetus recommended: "To treat nothing as a matter of private profit, nor to plan about anything as though a detached unit, but to act like the foot or the hand, which, if they had the faculty of reason and understood the constitution of nature, would never exercise choice or desire in any other way but by reference to the whole." Covid or not, it is pretty darn tough to connect with others and feel like a part of a community. But you've already demonstrated that you're a disciplined Stoic. As others in this thread have said, try to expand/challenge your practice by cultivating connections with others.

Have extensively read Epictetus' Discourses and Seneca's Letters and Marcus Aurelius' journal. I've been living alone for years and I seem to be stuck in a vicious cycle and need advice (am a 30M).

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Hi there. I've been practicing stoicism for few months. Totally a newbie. Have been reading stuff and trying to apply in my life. But I've met with a very confusing situation which causes me anxiety also. I've been in a relationship for more than an year now. Now my gf thinks that she may identify as a polyamorous person. We started the relationship as monogamous. But it's normal for people to realize things late. Since I've been conditioned in a monogamous way, I'm having troubles to accept that she can love someone else just like she loves me at the same time. I don't like the idea of my gf being with me and loving other dudes. It's not that she already loves someone else, she says there might be a chance and she's comfortable with the idea of polyamory. So from a stoic point of view, since I love her, should I stay with her by accepting the fact that she wants to be in different relationships at the same time or should I let her go? I'm trying hard to accept the idea of Polyamary but I can't. Maybe it's because I have never been exposed to this idea and I was conditioned in monogamous way all these years. Simply I've got only two choices. I'm asking here because I, someone who's interested in practising stoicism, got confused and don't even know which direction should I go to. Couldn't make it short and thanks for taking time to read it. Hope you have an advice or tip to give. Have a nice day!

Have you taken the time to consider what you really want in a relationship? Conditioning only goes so far, as does the preference of your partner. Neither will tell you what *you* want from a romantic bond. I wasn't conditioned into monogamy - in fact, my upbringing was virtually the opposite. However, I am naturally monogamous. If someone wants to have a poly relationship, they can't have that with me. You are leaping to the decision point before you've actually gathered the data you need to make the choice. Do you as an independent autonomous being want to be in a poly relationship? Do you want to explore the idea? Or do you absolutely know you're monogamous and you're just trying to avoid it so you don't have to face the fact that you and your GF are incompatible? Stoicism means having the courage to face the truth, whatever that is. It means having the integrity to do the right thing, whatever that is. It means understanding yourself so that you know what you prefer and don't prefer.

I wonder how a Stoic would deal with this

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Long time lurker, first time poster here. I stumbled upon stoicism through the writings of Nassim Taleb and Ryan Holiday. Here's the situation. I feel like I'm being left behind in my career. I graduated in 2020 with a degree in Engineering. However the job market in my country has been **incredibly bad**. I sought to improve my fortunes by doing freelance work and building skills on the internet , but have unfortunately had very little success with that.This is because I had to move in with my guardians and they have no access to electricity. I really feel that I've been trying so hard to improve my situation and get my career up and running but keep getting bad cards. I really feel bad about myself and my situation. **tl.dr;** Is there any stoic advice you'd give to someone who feels unfairly left behind?

What is in your control, what is not within your control? Make a plan of the things you can do, once you have a definite plan you will feel better. The outcome of your plan is ultimately not within your control, but your actions putting the plan into place are. This will maximise your chance of success. Control the controlables. Also, Amor Fati, you are where you are, embrace it, the obstacle is the way.

Advice For Someone Feeling (Unfairly) Left Behind ...

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What does stoicism say about hanging around people that may bring you down? I've been doing research on it and I've seen two sides to it: one where we should immediately leave as no matter how clean you are, you will get dirty hanging around dirty people. The other says that we shouldn't let them affect us and to continue moving forward and to accept them as who they are. ​ To give some context, I've been taking some things more seriously in my life and have considered some life changing decisions. I'll still come and hang around with my friend group but now it feels like they're "bums". They're sense of enjoyment seems to be shitting on other people that try in life because they themselves are living a life they don't enjoy. They've even made comments poking fun at me for taking something serious that they think is silly. It feels like they're all just waiting around until they're final day comes, accomplishing nothing everyday. Overall, everytime I talk to them it always feels like we're gossiping and putting someone else down for our own enjoyment and it's something I can't get behind now. I'm not really sure what to do. Is it wrong of me to cut them off or distance myself? Isn't it not stoic to cut them off because I am letting what they say and do affect me? Shouldn't I not be bothered by their actions and be able to continue doing what I have to do while enduring their actions? If what I've read is true, aren't my friends prescribed to me in a sense? That they were prescribed to me in life for me to be able to endure harsher words better and for me to be able to learn to block out all the noise? At the same time, there are stoics like Epictetus that say I should just leave and surround myself with people more like-minded no? Any advice is appreciated, in a very confusing spot in my life right now, thanks Edit: It also seems as if I've changed a lot more as a person and they've continued to stay the same, just to add more context.

Relationships are transactional. It's not a romantic thing to say but what is the value of a bond if it doesn't benefit both parties more than it damages them? First you may want to define what friendship means to you. Seneca speaks about this in his [9th letter](https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_9)"On Philosophy and Friendship" - section 8, 9, and 10+ in particular. His 3rd letter is also on friendship and he may add to your definition more with that one, but the 9th letter is more to your question.

Feel like I'm outgrowing friends.

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Hey guys I love stoicism (like my fate - well, working on that at least) and i can see a number of benefits from its teachings. However, one negative thing I noticed is sometimes a flare up of my ego. Now I am aware that it is not a mistake of stoicism, for stoics never argued that we should be egoistical in any sense. The blame lies solely in me, however l can't seem to eradicate that thoughts. Now i will try to explain how it goes to get you some additional information. I am a person that compares lot of things to each other, and i also compare people and their attributes. What it does for me? Well sometimes good things, for example if i see that people around me are generally better than me in handling critique it gives me a valuable information about myself. (Off course i try to be better even without comparing to other people but that's how it goes sometimes) But often not-so good things. For example if i see that I am lacking in something compared to others it can lower my self-esteem. And the opposite can happen too. Now we get to stoicism and how my lack of good application makes for this negative thing. I am not a person that would feel superior to another because of my looks, possessions or intelligence. But sadly i do feel sometimes superior and when that happens its mostly on basis of me working on myself. I understand that we are born in different circumstances and as a completely different set of beings. And that comparing yourself to others you are focusing on something external and not on your intrinsic value and progress. But the same as i get a drop of self-esteem when i realize that someone is a lot braver then me, the same way i get an ego boost when i realize that while I am trying to get the best that I can someone over here laments of some stupid reason and can't stand up for himself. How can I mitigate these thinkings? Please don't say just focus on what is in your power - I'm not saying that it is not a true and great thing to say - I'm just saying that i already know and try to live by that and although it helps i can't grasp it fully and I would appreciate more advice.

You keep trying. Neuroplasticity is a hell of a thing. The more you think in certain ways the easier it becomes to think in those ways. Imagine the thinking pathway of comparing yourself to others as a grand canyon in your mind. It took ages to form and it was because the water (thoughts) always flowed there. Now you are trying to get the water to flow somewhere else, a relatively flat plain. It doesn't want to flow like that! It keeps flowing into the canyon even when you don't want that! But the more often you direct the flow back to where you want it, the more the water will carve out a new canyon.

How to have healthy self-esteem without ego?

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Been saving up money and I decided to treat myself with vacation. To keep it short, I basically got scammed $600, and I feel dumb and horrible. Everything was going okay, I don't make much money so this vacation was a great break. Haven't been scammed in a long time so this kinda got me in a slump. Can any of yal give some advice to get through this? The stoic way

You paid a prize (600$) and got a valuable lesson for it. The other got 600$ and paid a much higher prize: he became a thief.

Got scammed on vacation

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Hi reddit, I have some trouble/need stoic advice. Lately my family has beign making fun of me and laugh at me for trying to be healthy. lately I've been exercising and eating healthy, but the opinions and comments of my parents (and little brother) make me insecure and they quite demotivating. This happens when I cook for myself or exercise outside or don't want to eat unhealthy food 3 times a week. Does anyone have any tips or (stoic) advice for me and this situation? How would you react to this or cope with it. I usually don't react and ignore it but deep inside it does something. I have already tried to talk about it with them. What I do isn't unhealthy, I don't train too much or starve myself. (I train 3x a week with sessions of 45 minutes to an hour and just eat a lot of vegetables and meat, and I also feel better than ever)

Keep working out and you will see the results and realize no matter what they say they're wrong and you'll keep making gains if you keep it up.

my family laughs at me for trying to be healthy

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I love so much, unnecessarily sometimes... I give and give and almost never take, but somehow I've been completely forgotten about. I'm the guy who always looks out for others and making sure everyone is ok. I try to make everyone better around me and do my best to be a good vibe, but I can't believe no one thinks about ME... only when they need something. No one really cared when I was in the hospital dealing with the worst pain of my life, no one checked to see how that affected me mentally. No one really asked how my semester went, no one really cared when I brought it up. No one really noticed me when I didn't talk for days, or ate nothing. Or how I never slept, or how I abused substances every night. No one wanted to check up, everyone is just doing there own thing and I struggled like crazy. I've feel so alone and such an outcast. I don't feel a mutual love that I give out to so many others and its really fucked with me. I think I want to give up on my emotions. I want to stop progressing friendships, I want to stop trying with the girl I desperately want to notice me. I want to stop apologizing for being an inconvenience or hurting people. I want anger now. I feel rage and its a beautiful motivator. Ive been letting it out more and its fucking working. Love won't get you far but fear goes a long way. If i'm going to be noticed for something its how much I can actually scare people. My attitude, my tone, my speech, my aggression, I saw it today... playing basketball with grown men, I was ruthless and it made me happy, people admired it, no matter how scary I was. I dont know what the stoics say about anger, but its working for me. This aggressive persona I have adopted, so that no one fucks with me, no one can take advantage of me, no one can do anything to me and I hold all the power is working. The thing is, it disappears when im with her. The girl I admire so much but it never being reciprocated. The one I do anything for, i cant help but be a sweetheart to her. I dont know if i'm looking for advice or if im venting but I think I need anger to get over her. This love and empathy that I overindulge in happens too much with her and I think its made me weak. I rather be hated and feared, but known versus being fake loved and forgotten. Flawed mindset, I know, but thats why I'm here. If there is another way, please help me understand.

Hi friend, I used to feel like you. I had issues with co-dependence. For me, it was because I also had a fawn-type response to trauma, meaning I was always trying to please people and I had learned that from childhood. I became angry because I felt no one was kind and no one was defending me. Every day is different, and some days I struggle more than others. These days I struggle less. If you want my opinion, anger isn't the answer. From a stoic's perspective, you are too attached to the reactions of others. The stoic answer, therefore, is not to become angry and thus become attached to the different reactions of others, but rather to let go and focus on your own actions and whatever is in your control. Learn how to fill your own cup and learn how to love yourself, rather than learning how to be hated. If needed, speak to a trusted person or a therapist in order to learn how to set boundaries and care for yourself first. If someone needs to be worshipped in order to show you friendship or love, don't do it and watch those people filter themselves out when they can't get narcissistic supply from you. If you spend all your energy trying to be some tough guy persona in order to force people to show you kindness, you're going to live a life of emptiness because you won't feel safe enough to be yourself with others even if they would have loved you. You also won't draw the right people into your life -- you'll attract people who are attracted to those they fear, rather than those they respect. Love isn't hurting you. Your love is a gift. What's hurting you is giving love to people who don't show you respect or love back, instead of giving it to yourself first and then those who are kind. It takes time, friend. My heart goes out to you, your experiences are challenging and you've been through a lot. I wish for your happiness and your wellbeing.

Empathy and love is hurting me

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OK, maybe not really like /r/niceguys, I am happily married, and when I was single I had no problems dating, although casually dating, FWB, ONS. My "problems" manifest mostly at work, friendships and family members. ----- I am not new to Stoicism, I have read the classics and Pigliucci/Irvine; and I know that Stoicism is not about suppressing one's emotions. I am posting here because the mods allow *"Seeking Stoic Advice"* posts, and because the comments here are the best quality comments across the entire Reddit ecosystem. I am an old(er) Redditor and I have come a long way in my life; up until not long ago I thought that my life was pretty great, then the other day I lost my temper, something that had not happened in a very long time, and that I thought it was gone from my personality; but there I was. And it was ugly. I was ugly. Details withheld because they don't matter. Losing one's temper is uncalled for. Period. But my reflections on what happens has led me to keen observation of my MO(s) and behavior, and I have come to the realization that: 1. I don't perform well in confrontations 2. I don't perform well under stress (stress real or imagined) 3. I play "nice" by default, but then turn ugly in situations #1 and #2 above. 4. So really, I am not that "nice". I have read "No More Mr Nice Guy", as well as "Not Nice" and "The Disease to Please". Dear members of this Stoa, if you are still with me, besides my Stoic practice of reading and re-reading the classics and selective modern Stoic writers (I don't do Ryan H), daily journaling, daily journaling challenging my belief systems, what resources do you have for me to better myself? I am also looking into my insurance benefits for going to therapy too. I have been in therapy in the past for depression and then declared depression-free (and I believe it). I know I have some problems with anxiety and, of course, anger; but I do believe that anxiety and anger are related. Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks in advance.

I read No More Mr. Nice Guy 3 years ago and realized it was 100% me. I read Epictetus and realized it was 100% not me, but closer to who I want to be. When I get angry, I journal it out. I try to identify what was the impression that I received? Then, what was the judgment I made of that impression? Was my response to that impression virtuous? You could say this is closing the barn door after the horse got out, but it's the only way I know how to get better. Look at Discourses 3.8. Epictetus gives us instructions on how exactly to train our mind to respond to impressions. There's also nothing wrong with using the No More Mr. Nice Guy playbook to review your actions. Did you get upset because you had a covert contract? Were you previously unable to express your displeasure with something because you were avoiding conflict and then it exploded out of you? Taking the time to dissect failures gives you a better chance of finding the right path in the moment next time.

I am one of the r/niceguys. How do I undo this?

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I often struggle with overthinking and anxious worry thoughts, this is part of the reason why I got into stoicism a few months back. I tell myself over and over again not to obsess over that which I can't control but I struggle to truly free myself from the burden of worrying. Usually I worry about whether someone I care about is alright, whether they are safe, and how they are feeling. But I also battle with feelings of inadequacy and even jealousy if I feel someone else is better than I when it comes to caring for and providing for those i hold close to me. Does anyone have any stoic advice for me on how to mitigate this anxiety.

Feelings are like waves, crashing on the beach of consciousness over and over. They won't ever stop coming. It is a constant struggle to release them instead of react. To swim instead of becoming overwhelmed and drowned. Breathe and understand you can't exactly control your emotions, only the reaction to them, or not. Like anything, dealing with emotion takes practice. Focus on making your own "weaknesses" into strengths. You sound empathic and kind. Just knowing that your feelings and uncertainty are going to come, even if they don't serve you. Keep practicing meditation and breathe when situations are difficult. Life is wrestling more than dancing. Edit: if your thoughts are creating those feelings, find a new way to identify yourself in the reality of the situations. Look outside of the original thought. Ask yourself, is this worth getting emotional over? The emotions will create a wreck if you allow yourself to accept them regarding thoughts of insecurity. You're going to be just fine, my man. Edit 2: Consider the overthinking, as the root of the overwhelming emotional waves. The thoughts that aren't rooted in reality have created a realistic mental scenario that makes our body go into a self-destructive emotional cycle. You want the best for others. What can you actually do? Become stronger and more reliable in your actions. Use emotion as fuel for your passions and you will be fulfilled, creating purposeful thoughts and action to provide for others as it seems you care a lot. Then who can blame you for being active, caring and effective in your life? You create a state of imperviousness in a way. This will break the cycle of self doubt.

Dealing with feelings of jealousy and worry

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This hurts. I dont want to do it. I want to reassure him that everything will most likely be alright. He'll get through it and be strong. He'll be one of the few survivors. They could be. But it's not likely. I want to deny with everything within me, to myself and them, the possibility that they might die. I DONT WANT HIM TO DIE! But he might, easily could, and likely will be based on the facts. It's very unlikely he'll get through this, however much I want him to. I can't help but think back to my grandparents, and my vehement denial to myself, and them, that the thing that is *obviously* going to happen somehow won't actually happen and that they'll be immortal and around forever... I can't do it. It's false. It feels wrong to pretend it won't happen. We will all die. Me. You. Everyone I love. Everyone you love. Some people before each other and some people after. But either way, somebody suffers. and that suffering is awful. I want to feel like I am validating their fears by acknowledging rather than denying the very real possibility he'll lose his life quite soon. I want his fears to be understood, validated and heard. I don't want to do what I did before, and pretend everything will be okay. I imagine myself in that position one day, and think of what it would feel like to have everyone lying to me about my prognosis or not even acknowledging my fears and feeling like I was completely on my own at the end, and I just think that I want to be there for him and understand where he is coming from without denying it. Less than five percent of people with his prognosis survive. This guy has had such a huge impact on my life and I love him. I owe him the truth, I want to support him. But everything wants to tell him he is one of the lucky few and that he'll be okay. The other part of me, despite the fact he has a wife (who does not show her love in any way that I'm aware of, currently or historically), wants to spoon him on his hospital bed and squeeze his hands and kiss him. Would this be that bad? Would showing my love physically be such a sin? Because he has helped develop my mind in such a huge way and had such a massive impact on me that there's no way I want it to go unnoticed and unmarked. But I want to do the right thing. Im sorry this post is such a mess. I will probably not hug him. But I want to be there emotionally for him at a time when he is likely dying. What is the Stoic advice on this?

I don't really understand. I get a sense from your post that you feel obligated to tell this man he will most likely die, so that you can talk to him about how much that hurts you **so you can feel better**? And this man isn't your husband and has a wife? Its very likely this man knows his prognosis no? Unless he is of asian origin where doctors have a habit of not telling palliative patients that they even have cancer. Everyone handles death differently. You can't really project your own attitude about it into a person. You may want to give [discourses 1.11](https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0236%3Atext%3Ddisc%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D11) a read. Let me know what you think about this advice. Maybe you feel I misrepresented your position. Ultimately, if I was in your shoes. I would speak with his wife privately about how they understand his prognosis and how you should best behave around him. But it depends on my relationship with them.

Being honest with someone who may die from their health condition

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I'm usually pretty friendly to everyone at work. Most people are friendly back. But there are some who critique and judge me for being friendly. I work at a grocery store and some of the cashiers up front have gossiped and said I'm weird because I say Good Morning or I ask how their day has been. It's not like I'm asking them "how's it going" every waking moment. It's a once a day passing gesture, say hello and keep it moving. I'm trying to not let it get to me, to realize that it's out of my control and that they might be misguided for judging me like so, but I'm still bothered by it. I often have to repeat to myself that it's not up to me if they think I'm weird. Just be courteous and at least try to greet them because it's the right thing to do. There's also a cashier up front who I think is really pretty and from her friendly demeanor about herself, I kind of developed a crush on her. I asked my co-worker if she had a boyfriend and he told me he would ask her. I suppose that he told her I was the one who asked because after that interaction, her whole attitude towards me changed. I used to have interesting conversations with her and now when I approach, she gives me one word responses and barely even says hi to me anymore. It really hurt my self-esteem, and I feel like I did something wrong. My co-worker even now tells me that she asks why I say hello to her every morning making it seem like I'm sexually harassing her or something. I was planning on asking her out for coffee or something to that extent but now my mind is completely made up that it's not something I want to do anymore. It just bothers me that she judged me without even getting the opportunity to get to know my character. There's nothing I can do about that but let it go at this point but I just wish I wasn't so sensitive about these things like so. I know I can't expect everyone to like me but it is what it is I guess. I know this isn't very stoic and I don't want to fall into hatred of someone's demeanor but is there any advice you all can give me to change my mindset on my issue?

We can't control other people. Not what they think, not what they do. We become frustrated when we **desire** things that are not ours to expect. *If you desire something outside your control, you are bound to be disappointed,* Enchiridion 2 says. *Strong emotions arise only when we fail in our desires,* explains Epictetus in Discourses 3.2. I bolded the word desire. The reason I did that is that we have flexibility in the intensity of our particular wish. Instead of setting our heart on a thing, we can count it among the things we merely prefer. Instead of craving something in particular, we can notice our inclination and deliberate the attributes that we might learn from the thinking. In effect, we are loosening our grip on desiring that outcome and, in return, loosening our dreamed-up desire's influence on our soul.

I'm sensitive when it comes to people being rude or not reciprocating my kindness. I want to change that. How can Stoicism help me with this?

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For example, blatant disrespect, someone is like hahaha you're a weak pussy bitch or your daughter/wife is a slut monkey or your family is all shit. It's like shit I have pride in myself and certain things that are disrespected, but when I defend myself i never win cause it keeps going. And you can't physically do anything cause it's illegal. So the obvious thing would be to just walk away, but the emotions still linger like "fuck that guy". Any stoic advice for this?

I respect myself enough not to give a shit if others do. Someone else's limited perspective (about anything, including me) is their own problem. But most disrespect is brought on by the individual needing to degrade others in order to elevate themselves. When two people start reflecting off of each other, it amplifies the disrespect by amplifying each one's own insecurity. If you're secure in yourself, it doesn't hit you. It's like a dull mirror. No reflection. No amplification. Walk on by.

What sort of tricks do you use to remain stoic, when people are disrespectful?

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I need so advice on becoming stoic, I'm a massive worrier and constantly overthink everything and I need of a big change

Practice, lots of deliberate practice

How do I become Stoic ?

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Recently, I(21F) have been thinking that everything is too rapidly changing. As an ordinary person who has to get accustomed to that change in order to get a job and survive, the uncertainty of the future is really suffocating. I never agreed to this and that technology, why should I abandon what I've been doing for a while due to some 'intelligent people'? (Of course, technology makes human's life more convenient and I, too, get benefits from it. However, I don't think convenience is the best value for mankind. It has clear side effects; it makes people lazier and more egocentric.) I wish I could live my life at my own pace. Would you give me any stoic advices? Thanks a lot in advance.

"Don't let your imagination be crushed by life as a whole. Don't try to picture everything bad that could possibly happen. Stick with the situation at hand, and ask, "Why is this so unbearable? Why can't I endure it?" You'll be embarrassed to answer. Then remind yourself that past and future have no power over you. Only the present--and even that can be minimized. Just mark off its limits." - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations Try to cultivate a sense of acceptance and equanimity in the face of uncertainty, knowing that there are some things that are simply beyond our control. By focusing on what you can control and letting go of what you cannot control, we can find a sense of tranquility and contentment, even in the face of an uncertain future.

Fear about the uncertain future

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I did an editing job and my mistake was I gave the file before getting paid. Now, it's been a week since the agreed date but everytime I ask her for the payment she keeps giving me reasons. How should I approach this as a Stoic? I'm trying my best to understand that her reasons might be legit after all. If it was the old me I'd probably resort to intimidation. Now i just say "okay sure I understand" but now i've already said that 3 times. How should I deal with this in an inward manner? Should I just accept that the mistake was mine since other's actions are not in my control? Edit (again): Legal action does seem to be the best way forward, but the reasons why I'm hesitant to this are: 1.) It's just a small time gig and taking legal action costs way more than the money owed. 2.) The client mentioned used to be a fairly decent friend. Ps: comments and advices are great so far! Thanks for all of yall's wisdom!

>How should I approach this as a Stoic? I'm trying my best to understand that her reasons might be legit after all. Don't do that. It sounds like this is likely a small job, which means you can start the small claims process. You could also have a legal firm send her a letter of intent. But when you're buying editing services you're operating as a business, not a person who needs "understanding". When a business reneges on a contract, the appropriate response is a legal process to enforce the contract, not understanding.

A client won't pay me.

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Hopefully I don't ramble, but I apologize if I do. As the title states, I am in the military and so is my husband. However, I'm in the support role for the next few months while my husband is gone. This is not at all the first time we've been apart for extended periods of time. In fact, this will be one of the shorter ones, but all of the same emotions are still there. I recently found this subreddit and started browsing, mostly reading comments on posts I found interesting, and am finding that stoicism really speaks to me. I consider myself to be relatively level-headed and logical, but am very aware that my biggest soft spot is my husband and having him away from home has always broken me down in the past. For a little background, I had a pretty traumatic, abusive childhood which caused severe anxiety and ultimately PTSD. I've done extensive therapy work to get through the PTSD, which honestly doesn't effect me too often - not in substantial ways like it used to, at least. Day to day, I really don't have too many problems with anxiety, but as I write this I realize that it's a part of every day on some level, just not nearly as bad as it used to be. It used to be absolutely crippling, but I've always been determined to do the work to make it better. Anyway, I've known for months that my husband and I would have this time apart and felt that I was relatively at ease with it until a few days before he left. Emotion and anxiety seemed to sweep over me out of nowhere and take over and even while it was happening, I knew there was no logic to it. I found some advice on another post that recommended meditation, so I decided from that point on that any time I felt anxiety coming over me, I would do a simple 10 minute meditation, even if that meant I did it 20 times a day. After the first time, I felt calmer immediately, but that was about it. 10-15 minutes later, I felt like a completely different person. I felt like the person I knew myself to be, but felt like I had rarely seen myself this way. That was yesterday. I've meditated 5 times since then, some sessions more effective than others. My first question is to ask others who have gone down a similar path with anxiety for any advice moving forward. The more tools I have the more capable I feel. Second, I'd like to ask how others might suggest looking at military life from a stoic point of view. The first time my husband and I were apart was just 6 weeks after we got married and we spent the following 9 months apart. This was years ago and my anxiety was much worse. My panic attacks were excruciating and I consider a handful of moments during those 9 months to be the most emotional pain I've ever felt. I believe almost all of the anxiety I am experiencing this time stems from that experience and is a reflection of what I am expecting this time to be. I'm working on changing my beliefs in order to change my anxiety. For example, changing "I can't be okay alone" to "I can be okay alone" has already helped a lot. The worst part so far is being home and seeing things that remind me of my husband and doing things by myself that we always do together. It hurts, but then I realize how almost silly that is because he's not *gone*, he's just somewhere else. But the emotion doesn't totally go away. I expect it to get better as time passes and I get used to being home alone, but I realize that I am working on many things this time that are worse than they need to be simply because I did not work through them last time. I'd like to work through as much as I can right now in order to make this experience and future experiences better. When I feel really good and grounded, I can feel the old pattern of bracing for anxiety to take over, but the anxiety doesn't even appear no matter how much some corner of my brain might be egging it on. There's literally no stress, which is the most incredible feeling. I really don't know if I've ever felt that before in my life. I look at this situation and see the truth of it: there's actually nothing to be stressed about. But that doesn't last, anxiety will come back and I'll have to start over. I'm okay with that. What else can I do during this period of time to solidify my sense of self? What else can I do to be so grounded that when things like this come my way, I'll be strong from the beginning? I'd really like to be able to be so grounded that I can start to support other people in tough times and honestly, truly be okay. I'm getting a taste of it now and it's so incredibly empowering. Thank you all in advance. I'm looking forward to being a part of this community.

Welcome. I stumbled onto Stoicism after a successful experience with CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). CBT is largely based on Stoicism, so it did not take long for my exploration to lead here. Stoicism, like CBT, has helped with my anxiety and with feeling better about life in general. I'm 60ish and in poor health, so the help was quite welcome. There's basically two flavors of Stoicism - 'modern' Stoicism, which is accessible and practical, and the 'classical' stuff, which was the original flavor from long ago. The classical stuff is powerful and deep, but not easy to understand. [The FAQ](http://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/guide), and [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/q5ibpa/weekly_faq_link_introduction_beginners_qa_and/), are both good places to start. My advice would be to follow your nose, to read and explore what is most interesting to you and allow that knowledge to open further doors as you go. Don't be afraid to skim the FAQ, it can be quiet dense in places but it'd be a shame to miss what's there. The bottom line, IMO, is that our beliefs drive our experience, and our beliefs are ultimately under our control - it's not always easy, but it is do-able. We can't change our beliefs by putting a nice spin on things or lying to ourselves, we can only change our beliefs with genuine understanding and reason. Stoicism offers a sensible, realistic way to view the world. It works because being sensible and realistic works. Keep that in mind and enjoy your visit, there is much to discover here.

Military Life

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Trigger warning: mental health issues involving anger and self harm... I'll admit, am not as stoic as I'd like to be. That is why I am posting here, to learn from those of you who are more experienced with practicing stoicism. &#x200B; About a month ago, I was comparing myself to my more successful friends. I was feeling awful about my place in life (practically jobless, 27M, living with parents). I have bipolar disorder according to my doctors, and maybe BPD as well. Sometimes (rarely) I flip out and chuck my phone at the wall, or glasses or whatever. This time, I saw my episode starting, so i put down all my breakables and went to my room. I couldn't contain my frustration and ended up breaking my hand by punching the floor. I got it treated the next day. It was a boxer's fracture. The doctor heavily suggested to avoid the risk of surgery and just wear a cast for a month, which i did. Today is day 2 of being out of the cast. I am unhappy with how my hand looks and feels. I am naturally boney and veiny and now my hand looks rounded and out of place. Also, the functionality isn't 100% (doesn't bend back as far as normal) so I feel claustrophobic in my own hand, if that makes sense. I think it's too late to get the surgery, which would've yielded better results. I regret not getting the surgery. I regret breaking my own hand. I regret every other self harm i've done and some of the scars still stand out to me today as much as they did years ago. It's hard looking at my own hands. I don't know what to do, how to reframe my thoughts, turn this into a positive or a learning experience or whatever. I feel residual anger from the entire situation, as if i'm worse off emotionally than i was before. I don't have a specific question to ask, just hoping someone will have some insight they'd be willing to pass along. Thank you all for listening. &#x200B; tl;dr: I had an episode of self-loathing where i punched the floor and broke my hand. The cast is finally off, and now I have to live with a wonky looking/feeling hand haunting me every time i look at it. Edit: this received an unexpected amount of support. Thank you everyone for your advice, it means a lot and it gives me a lot to think about. I appreciate every one of you <3

Give it time. Had a boxers fracture a number of years ago. Same deal, didn't get surgery. When I was done with the cast I couldn't even make a fist with my hand. Really freaked me out. Saw a physical therapist and realized it's totally normal. Got a squishy rock climbers hand workout tool that I kept with me all the time. I'd just work on the dexterity of squeezing and releasing each finger individually. I don't ever notice my break anymore. A bit of a rounded off knuckle but no one would ever notice. It took a long time for me to not notice it though. Probably on the order of a year. Only my experience. Hope it helps.

I broke my hand out of anger and am having trouble accepting the consequences.

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