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Forgive me if I'm phrasing this wrong at all but I want to get further into stoic living, and I've read that journaling daily is a necessary component in that endeavor. All I know about the topic itself is that journaling is the first thing a stoic should do when they start their day, and that it must consist of laying out the goals of the day ahead of them and reflecting on the events of the day prior. My question is that: is that all there is to it to journal effectively? Should my writing narrative while journaling be cut and dry to just those points of writing or should I add some narrative flair as though it might be read one day by someone else? Any advice and reasoning is appreciated thank you very much.

It's your journal, write it however you want! I believe the idea is to help you organize your thoughts and reflect on your own actions. So however works best for you to do that.

How to journal effectively as a stoic?

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Hello folks. My father in law is dying slowly of kidney disease. My relationship with my wife is going through a rough patch because she is taking care of him. I feel like I'm losing both my wife and my father in law. I need stoic advice because I feel so helpless.

Went through the same thing. Twice. FIL, then MIL. Her attention is where it needs to be. This is a very difficult time for her. Help her through it. Don't take the lack of attention personally.

My father in law is dying.

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This is a (possibly fake) quote of the Dalai Lama. It seems to resonate quite well to the stoic way of thinking. And I try to adhere more often than not to this way of thinking. This works well when life is in white and black. When things are clearly decided, there's nothing I can do to solve this, or it is hard, but if I invest enough time and effort into this, it will work, then I completly and utterly agree, there's no reason to worry. But often this isn't the case. Will the surgery succeed? Will he survive? Can I do anything to help him? Would telling him to not do the surgery save him? Would going to another doctor give him a better chance of survival? That's when the worries appear. (This is just a hypothetical scenario :D ) I know that for all I know I did all I could, but this still makes me feel uneasy. It's more a shade of gray. How would you approach this? Any advices, or opinions? Anything is greatly appreciated.

This is a great quote, but you are misinterpreting and overusing it. I mean the most important aspect of stoicism is to accept and embrace fate. Remember what Marcus Aurelius said "Whatever happens to you, has been waiting to happen since the beginning of time." I know that you were just using examples, but here are some counter points for when these thoughts cross your mind "Will the surgery succeed" - If it's meant to succeed it will, if it's not, it was his fate. There's nothing you could've done since you're not a surgeon and can't predict the future. You cannot control life, you can only control yourself, your emotions, your actions. "Can I do anything to help?" - If yes, then it applies to "If a problem can be solved, what reason is there to be upset?", if not, then you can't actually do anything, so don't overthink this, you got your answer, there's nothing you can do to help. It's a lot harder to put it in practice in real life, but if you really try, it'll get easier and easier

If a problem can be solved, What reason is there to be upset? If there is no possible solution, What use is there in being sad?

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Context: I'm a 22 y/o brown male and 166cm (barely 5'6). It's probably confirmation bias but now all I can hear is people comparing heights and things like how "x actor can't play a powerful role because he's only 5'6" etc. I work in Canada where I'm often the shortest male in the room. Height has repeatedly been emphasized to me as the most important physical trait in a male for any sort of influence, dominance, or even respect. That's where it gets dark for me. I work a relatively prestigious job and this insecurity not only fuels my impostor syndrome, but it also wastes countless hours I can use virtuously. I often feel incomplete. What I've tried: Coping - I've worked out, developed social skills (and dressing sense), and earn a top percentile income. I've also added the illusion of a few extra inches by working on my V taper, adding volume to my hair, emphasizing my posture and opting for heavier shoes where possible. But these things only make me feel worse when my small height gets pointed out cause I feel like an incomplete fraud. I don't particularly like taller women and will definitely not mind a very short girl. I also realize that any girl shorter than me by 3 inches wanting a 6ft guy is only status chasing and not wifey. It still feels really bad to feel incomplete and undesirable and that I have to compensate for a blaring weakness of mine (which is a fact). Meditation - A lot of this is tied to egoic thinking which I've tried to dissuade with meditation. Not helped. Stoic ideas - Dichotomy of control (it's the same game for everyone: no one can coast on their externals and the ones that optimize the things in their control will outperform), Amor fati (enjoy the underdog story arc), negative vizualizations (I realize my height could have been a lot worse). But these don't stop the piercing pain when a comment is passed disqualifying / excluding me. I feel like I can never be a respectable figure. Why I want to improve: I feel like an asshole for worrying about this when it's my only real problem in life right now. I waste so much energy, esteem, and time on this. I realize that any sort of advice would probably boil down to some version of what I've already tried. There's probably no easier way than to fight the demons with these tools. But if something particularly helped you, I'd appreciate the insight.

People who care about height will talk about height. People who don't care about height will not be involved in those conversations. My own experience of being 5'7" suggests that it's genuinely not that important to most people.

My height insecurity is only getting worse

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I know you all hate posts that just ask for advice, but I'm genuinely trying to learn the stoic approach to real life scenarios. I tore my left ACL last year, and after a year of painstaking rehab I return to my sport. In the very first game back, I tear the other ACL. I'm in a state of shock and disbelief. Everything I worked so hard for was just taken from me again just like that. I'm going to lose yet another year of my already limited college sports career, and my schorship is now at risk, let alone having to get/ pay for surgery. My disappointment, stress, and misery is currently immeasurable. How does a practicing stoic remain calm in times of uncertainty and hardship? ​

I think the reason people find this sort of thing frustrating is that it feels like advice-seekers want the answer handed to them without doing any of the work, but all any of us can do is point you to the work. What have you read so far? How deeply have you analysed your impressions about your injury and the sporting career you want? Do you know what it means to analyse your impressions? Have you judged your goals against virtue and correctly assessed what will bring you contentment? Stoic practice takes time, study and, well, practice. Turning to it only when you have a problem is like trying to learn to swim once you get thrown in the deep end.

Remaining stoic in the middle of a storm

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Please allow me to preface this post with the fact that I've been living my life in accordance with stoic principles for quite a while now, nearing 9 years. Discovering stoicism has been a blessing for me and led to a dramatic increase in my mental health and overall quality of life. I followed the advice of the last great Emperor with a great success, I've read every book, I've learned every Enchiridion flascard by heart, I've mastered the art of focusing on the things I can control and ignoring all the rest, but I don't feel like I can distinguish things that within my power anymore. I live in Russia and what I see is a massive psychosis at the very least. Within a week all independent media is gone, social media platforms are censored or outright prohibited, people getting frisked and imprisoned, cops checking personal messages on your personal phone, words like "war" are literally prohibited and replaced with actual bullshit, protests are squashed and people getting fines and prison time, Z symbols and Z billboards popping up on every major street, I feel like if the glasses from "They Live" were real, you would see swatsikas instead of these Zs. But that's not even the half of it, the saddest part is that people around me don't seem to care, or outright support these things. As a stoic I believe that I can affect at least something, at the very least I can try to convince my friends and my family, the people I love, I can talk to them and try to wake them up from this reality, but my attempts fall on deaf ears. I can reason with words and wield the truth, I can provide proof of the the lies that our government spews, proof of impending doom and collapse that awaits us in the future if we remain on this course, but I can't even convince my closest kin. I feel conflicted feelings, despair, hopelesness, fear, lack of control and yet still the ever burning desire to do at least fucking something. It's like the reality itself has ceased to exist, the rules of whatever game we used to play has changed completely and the only real way out of it is to turn on the survival mode, to become a rusty mean son of a bitch who has to do what it takes just to make it through.

"Firstly, thank you for improving the world by improving yourself; you are making a difference! I see the struggle in this challenging situation, but can you provide a specific/simple example of where you don't feel like you can distinguish things within your power? It sounds like you know what's in your power (totally up to you), but you want to control more than that. Sending love your way!"

Stoicism fails me in the times of collective insanity.

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I am facing a lot of health issues right now. Got a busted up shoulder, pretty severe unexplained headaches(could be chronic migraine according to a doc) and what not. It's not enough to incapacitate but my daily life has been adversely affected. Quality of Life has definitely gone down a lot. How do I deal with this as a stoic would? I have tried remaining calm and rational and explained to myself that half of the reason I am upset is my reaction to it and not the thing itself but that's not enough. Have been mentally exhausted and on the verge of crying many times in the past few days. How do I deal with this body of mine who has become my own enemy? I can't treat health as an external or indifferent thing. I feel guilty that I am overreacting and sometimes feel that my health issues are not bad enough and someone out there has it worse. I am very new at practising stoicism and any advice would be much appreciated

In a similar boat, and feeling similarly low ("cease to hope and cease to fear" well, unfortunately I got hopeful; and now I'm fearful). Hating the body won't change it or will change it for the worse; wishing you did things differently is foolish; fearing for the future would mean the future would have to be certain enough to predict (and yet you're there with your shoulder and migraines and I'm here with either a vertebra or some unwanted muscle on my neck crushing the nerves that go to my ears). All you can really do is go on with your life, continue whatever you can manage, and gracefully pull out of whatever you can't. I've stopped making new plans, but still go when invited. For the feelings themselves, these phases are basically free falls; ain't much you can do once the Passion starts. Be kind to yourself, minimize the damage to your relationships and everything else, wait for respites and use them when they occur. Be grateful for family and any people who stay around you (I live alone far from home). Reading can prepare you for when things calm down (arguments like "the universe is an ordered, interconnected whole" or "no Fortune is truly bad, since it trains the good and awakens the bad" mean nothing at this particular moment, but will later when I calm down). The only things that will actually give me any relief in the moment are Seneca's Letter 78 and Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy. Best of luck Anon, here's some Seneca: ""But," you object, "my illness does not allow me to be doing anything; it has withdrawn me from all my duties." It is your body that is hampered by ill-health, and not your soul as well. It is for this reason that it clogs the feet of the runner and will hinder the handiwork of the cobbler or the artisan; but if your soul be habitually in practice, you will plead and teach, listen and learn, investigate and meditate. What more is necessary? Do you think that you are doing nothing if you possess self-control in your illness? You will be showing that a disease can be overcome, or at any rate endured. There is, I assure you, a place for virtue even upon a bed of sickness. It is not only the sword and the battle-line that prove the soul alert and unconquered by fear; a man can display bravery even when wrapped in his bed-clothes. You have something to do: wrestle bravely with disease. If it shall compel you to nothing, beguile you to nothing, it is a notable example that you display. O what ample matter were there for renown, if we could have spectators of our sickness! Be your own spectator; seek your own applause." -Seneca, Letters 78.20-21

How do I deal with sickness?

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I have a job, family, friends, single/no kids, I'm sometimes happy sometimes sad. I just don't know where I want to go in life anymore. ​ Wondering if some stoic people here have had similar feelings and what they did? Any advice? ​

>I just don't know where I want to go in life anymore. "Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat. "I don't much care where ..." said Alice. "Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat. --LEWIS CARROLL, Alice in Wonderland Meaning "If a man knows not to which port he sails, no wind is favorable"_Seneca Also, don't complain, because much worse might come so easily.

Not sure what to do with my life after turning 30, anyone else?

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I am 19M, the day before yesterday I was sitting on my couch and realised since past 2 years how many times I've failed in my respective career. I've failed 3 exams, 3 rejections in interviews, 10+ no reply after applying for jobs and internships and since then i started to feel how shabby my future looks. I've been trying to lift myself up by constantly reminding myself that my future is out of my control and I cannot do anything except for giving my best at present. Any advice y'all have for me, will surely help me pass through this difficult times. Thank you very much and have a great day!

Why on earth are you keeping count of these things? What a depressing and useless thing to hold in your mind. Everyone fails all the time, it's completely normal. The thing is to keep trying until you succeed.

Stoic advice on failures

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Courage the cowardly dog is a true stoic. Although he's insanely afraid he still fights to protect! All jokes aside I wrote this post to see if any of you guys have advice on courage. It seems to be one of the least talked about stoic topics, mainly because I think people feel courage will just "turn on" when you need it. However I'm terrified, I train and train but I'm afraid if the time comes I would simply freeze, or run away. Any of you guys have quotes that pushed you, courageous stories, tips on how to build your courage and spirit? I'm not trying to be a hero or anything.

You might not find this to be immediately helpful, but I can share what I understand courage to mean in a Stoic context. Basically, whenever something is wrong with us, it's because we hold a false belief about things. That's what vice is, vice is literally false belief. One of the things which is commonly wrong with us is that we feel fear. Fear is a result of thinking that something crucially important to us is being threatened. If, for example, we regard our lives as being crucially important, then we will rightly fear anything which threatens our lives. The way the Stoics see it, everything other than our judgement and will are external to us, and everything that is external is not crucial to us. This includes our bodies, our health, and our lives. On the one hand, yes, it sounds crazy, and on the other, this is what sets people free. Now, lots of people don't agree with this, and they see it differently. They will say that it's OK to regard your life as crucial to you, and OK to fear for your life, and that the task before you is to learn to handle your fear. Feeling fear, and doing the fearful thing anyway, is another definition of courage. It's not right or wrong, it's just another way of looking at it, but it's not the classical Stoic way.

Courage (the cowardly dog)

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i've been finding myself getting angry at the smallest of things. usually the anger comes from being proven wrong. i want to change my mindset regarding the problem first. i've tried meditations and techniques for calming down, but nothing really works in the moment. how would a stoic approach controlling one's anger issues, specifically from frustration of being proven wrong? anything would be helpful (books, quotes, advice).

Thanks for posting and having a willingness to improve your life. The stoic notion at play here in part, is temperance. The issue here seems to be your ego. Part of the issue is waiting until the moment surfaces that you choose to deal with your anger. Deal first thing in the morning. Know there are things out there looking to get your emotions going. Embrace your situation. You can't know everything but you can know more...so read, talk and educate the team. Amor fati -love this life. No one cares if you're wrong more than you. Change that. Imagine the strength associated with a conversation like this "I was thinking ____ was the answer. What might I be missing?" People respect that more often than not. Everytime you're corrected you've just been enlightened a bit. That's a great place to be!

How to control anger issues?

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People i care about tell me i'm not really empathic. They say they can tell i don't really understand their emotions. And if is kinda true. For example:When my girlfriend is worrying about something which we don't have any control over, she can get really sad. I can't give her stoic advice. I can't solve the problem. So the only thing i can do is try to understand her so she can feel better. But i don't understand her. I can understand the worrying a little bit, but i can't understand the emotion attached to it. So the problem i'm facing: how can i make other people feel better ?

Is it a Stoic trait to lack empathy? No, I wouldn't say that at all. Empathy isn't about making someone feel better though, nor about solving other people's problems. It's about holding space for and understanding someone else's emotional experience. Objectively we might realize that people tend to create more suffering for themselves than need be, out of their own skewed value judgments or personal narratives. But we can still validate someone else's emotional experience and really try to understand where they're coming from. When we understand where they're coming from, maybe there's an opportunity to share an alternate perspective that they might have missed. And sometimes people just want to know that they're understood, more than have someone else try to solve their problems for them. Sounds like an opportunity to exercise quality communication skills.

Is it a stoic trait to not be empathic?

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I was following stoic advice and not letting my emotions have any control over my anger but today i lost. I was doing so well for over a month today i let my anger prevail and acted on my anger. now I'm feeling down that i let this happen

>"How does it help to make troubles heavier by bemoaning them." Seneca

I lost

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I have recently been getting into philosophy to help combat my bad anxiety, specifically health related. For some background, a traumatic, prolonged and anxiety ridden experience, and a sudden death in my life have manifested a fairly severe case of hypochondria in my life. I get extremely bad physical anxiety symptoms, that make me feel that I truly am extremely ill. Whilst I have had tests, and been reassured it is in my head, so far CBT and counselling has been minimal in helping me adopt a better mindset. I have found thus far, trying to adopt a stoic approach to my affliction and life in general has been extremely useful to me in accepting what has and is happening to me. Marcus Aurelius' meditations has made me look at life in a completely new light. I want to work on a daily basis to become a more stoic person in order not just to move past my anxiety, but because i genuinely know it's the path to a more fulfilling life. So my question is, what would your advice be to someone that is new on this journey?

There is a phrase that is very stoic. I'm not sure if it's origin lies within stoicism but it goes in Latin : "momento mori" which means " remember that you have to die". Epictetus says that when we kiss our loved ones, we remind ourselves that they're mortal. There will come a time in everyone's life that they will have to succumb to that little black train. Stoicism teaches us that this is a natural process and that we shouldn't fear it. On to emotions, they will come up with everything that is tragic like the death of a loved one. You cherished their presence on this earth and you ultimately desired more time. There is nothing wrong with this. We remind ourselves of death not to block out the emotions that come with it, but to remind ourselves that our time is valuable from birth to death. Our time with the people we love is valuable and the it's important to spend it right.

Stoicism vs Anxiety

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I'm going to be giving birth in a few weeks. What advice does Stoic philosophy have for me? Has anyone on here faced this experience and found Stoic perspectives helpful? I plan to use pain medication in combination with other coping techniques - I find it most helpful personally to think of childbirth as lying along the spectrum of human experience that we can bring the resources of humanity (modern medicine!) to bear against, rather than a primal/natural event that my body will handle in a way separate from other parts of my life. (Dying is also part of the human experience, and people with a choice in the matter rarely form a goal of "getting through it without unnatural interventions.") But I also understand that people feel many ways about this topic, and have a great admiration for people who pursue an unmedicated delivery - please don't make this post into a war about which of these approaches is "more Stoic." Even though I expect to get an epidural, the education and medical advice I've gotten are consistent in recommending to delay epidurals until fairly late in the game (or at least it seems late to me) to avoid slowing labor. Epidurals can also fail or turn out to be unavailable for a variety of reasons. So I know I'm in for ??? hours of steadily increasing discomfort and pain, in an altered mental and hormonal state I haven't experienced before. I also have never had my pain tolerance tested to an extreme degree, and know that pain tolerance and the experience of what labor feels like varies hugely. I vacilate between using voluntary discomfort as opportunities to practice not-suffering, and trying not to borrow worry/suffering from the future by going too nuts with it. I hold a lot of ice cubes and long yoga poses, and have access to good resources for specific mental management techniques for handling contractions. Stoic perspectives have been very helpful to me during pregnancy, both for pregnancy symptoms (treatable and untreatable) and for thinking about upcoming labor. There is a lot I can't control both about things that are inevitable (pain) and things that are unknowable (what complications arise, if I have back labor or require other medical interventions, if my epidural fails) - and it's very freeing to realize this means that me ruminating about it won't change anything. I don't have a significant formal background in stoic philosophy, so I'd be grateful for both your own impressions as well as specific topics, concept names, or readings that might be relevant. I am interested in any male or female perspectives on this question, so long as they don't amount to "women just have some kind of special sauce for going through childbirth and they forget it afterward!" (This question is inspired by the "voluntary discomfort" post, and a look through the archives suggests there's only been a few posts on this topic ever. This is my 'pregnancy' reddit account and I'm a regular reader of r/Stoicism on my main account.)

If you trust your obstetrician, lean on their advice for timing, dosage, etc. They do this every day. If they are dedicated to the virtue of quality care, their advice is valuable, based on experience, and better than any you are likely to find on the internet. When my wife delivered, the epidural was helpful and well timed. Epictetus cautions us to wipe our noses when we need to and not waste our time deliberating the why or the injustice of our condition. I am not equating delivery with a nose cold. I am merely saying that your time now might be better spent practicing Lamaze breathing than worrying about things that there are caring experts for. Stay hydrated. Eat well. Ask questions of the facility or team that will be assisting you in your delivery. If you are a Stoic sage, perhaps you will be able to avoid the foul language my wife used during contractions. Maybe you can even avoid digging your fingernails all the way to the bones in your partner's hand.

Stoicism for giving birth

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I (31 f) work as a heavy duty equipment operator (793 cat) in a very remote mine in Northern Canada (in the arctic circle). We operate very large equipment in very extreme conditions. There is 1 fellow operater who challenges me frequently. Making false accusations about me to my superiors/coworkers, confronting me with vicious language, and not following operating procedures putting my safety directly at risk. Stoicism has helped me through this situation. I am not reacting emotionally, and I don't feel particularly good or bad about this person. I feel slightly grateful that they are giving me the opportunity to practice Virtue and I am proud they have not succeeded in making me act viciously in return. During my current rotation at work, multiple people have told me that this person is taking a combination of drugs while working that is absolutely not ok, and not supposed to be used while operating equipment. I have suspected drug use as there are very clear physical symptoms being displayed. Last week, I informed my foreman about this and he informed the superintendent, yet no action was taken. This person was then operating erratically, and came within inches of colliding with my haul truck while on an icy ramp, which very likely would have resulted in death. Last night's nightshift I made the choice to refuse work due to unsafe working conditions and sent emails to the appropriate management detailing the situation. From a Stoic position, I feel quite confident in my actions. Acting out of rational concern for safety rather than revenge. That being said, I do feel quite uneasy about whether or not management will respond appropriately and whether or not this person will respond to the accusation violently towards me, since it is only just that, accustations, at this point. I know I cannot control other people or situations, and fretting about it will just cause me distress, yet I can't help but be concerned about this. Looking for Stoic advice on how to calm my nerves about this dangerous situation and how to not let this consume my thoughts with what-if scenarios. Thank you

Doing the right thing can complicate your life. Doing the right thing is often not rewarded. Doing the right thing can make people angry with you. Doing the right thing is simply right. It is the path to being OK with yourself even when things are not OK in your environment. If management won't back you on serious safety issues, then you are better off moving on. None of this is easy or comfortable, but it is right.

Stoic advice for a complicated situation.

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So for a bit of context and I'll keep it as brief as possible. I was quite overweight and spent the pandemic vastly improving my physical health. Went on first date since pandemic a few weeks back and it went really well, I really liked her and go on a second date with her. That second date didn't go as well and now she just wants to 'be friends' but still wants to hang out. I am a little heartbroken. Ok, I realise that I may be being a little overdramatic but it hit a little harder than it probably should of but it lead me to start reflecting on things and to finally pick up and read Epictetus' Discourses that has been gathering dust in my room and explore stoicism further. Upon reflecting, I came to realise that a lot of what went wrong was in my control, talking about topics that were a little too personal and poor body language due to back injury I was attempting to power through. I realised also that it was the first date I had been in long time; she just happened to be first girl I had been out with. I had not been assertive enough when the first date went so well, due to a lingering lack of confidence (something I am still working on). And I'm pretty sure I came across as needy during while we were texting. Also, by way of focusing so much on training my body, I have failed in training my mind. Don't get me wrong, I have seen a lot benefit to exercise for my mental health, but I wasn't actively working on it like my body. So in other words, when things go wrong, particularly when dating, I tend to focus on negatives about myself and end up feeling worthless. Even with the little reading I have done so far (certainly still very much a novice), I have felt an immense benefit on how I have been reflecting on the situation. Before, I would have ruminated on the negatives and I would have made myself feel worse. However, the big thing I have taken away from this particular incident so far is gratitude for how the way things played out. This event has given me the opportunity to see things from a different perspective and I can see a path forward for mental self improvement. Now the thing is though, she says still wants to hang out sometime. I am not going to text her but a part of me is still hoping that she is being serious and that I may have another chance of winning her over. I'm trying my best to not dwell on these thoughts but it's hard! Stoic ideas have lead me in a direction where I can see the reality of what happened, where I went wrong and how I can begin to improve for the next time, but I am still ~~optimistically~~ hopelessly wishing for a different result. I am looking for some practical advice on how to not get carried away with these fantasies. Thanks!

One thing of note is you are placing blame on yourself. This is counter productive. It's great to reflect and analyze what you've done but it's useless to chastise yourself over it. Another thing of note is yes you can control topics of conversation and body language to some degree but you cannot control how the other person reacts and you cannot control the pain your back caused you. I would be remiss not to mention that It's great that you are changing your perspective on situations and that's a huge step. My last point is just keep doing what you are doing. Check your emotions and wondering thoughts with logic rather than impulse. This does not happen overnight and takes much study and practice even for experienced stoics.

How do you not get carried away with romantic delusions?

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So I have been working in a new warehouse job for the last couple of months, this is my first time ever working in this setting, and from the get go I just realized how slow I was at picking orders and other parts of the job. I show up on time and do my very best to pick up my speed, but am always falling behind. Also on top of this, my company hired a new guy and I feel like he's already better than me at this job and is also likely to get a promotion over me, that's coming up in our department. How do I deal with this, I'm giving it my all but it feels like it's not enough, also this isn't a career but I am using this job to finance me going back to school. I know I shouldn't let externals bother me, but it has been lately, as I end up messing up a order or having to work much harder to the point I skip my breaks to keep up. Any stoic advice would help.

If you are truly doing your best then Stoics believe that is the goal in itself.

[Advice] Bad at job, but I feel like I'm trying my very best

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First of all, English isn't my first language so sorry for any mistakes. I'm a 20 yo architecture student (It's a 5 year journey here to get the degree, I'm in my third), I love architecture but I just lost my passion for it, I have a lovely caring partner and a supportive family, yet I feel like I just want to leave it all, I contemplated suicide for so long but I've never been closer to actually commit. I tried CBT, tried a couple of anti depressants, nothing works for me.. I'm suffering from DP/DR for more than 4 years now and it just keeps getting worse, I lost my touch with the world and I don't know what to do, everything seems pointless at this point. I've read some stoicism earlier, Seneca's letters to be exact, and I'm looking for any stoic advice on how to feel that my life has any meaning again. I'd prefer a practical thing to actually get up and do. Thank you!

This is an incredibly important post with an incredibly important question. So it shouldn't be handled on a fucking subreddit. You are at a point in your life where you need real, in person, therapeutic / medical help and attention. Now. Get off the internet. Go help yourself. For the people who read this and are not immediately suicidal, Stoicism doesn't really offer meaning to life. It removes the idea that meaning is required in order to be happy. What meaning does the sunshine have? What meaning is there, when you realize that the things stressing you out are only stressing you out because you let them? What meaning is there, when every career... every life goal... every choice besides how you use your mind is only preferred, and results only guaranteed if Nature allows them? The stoic answer would be this: You can be happy, in this moment, without any singular meaning to your life. Just read Mans Search of Meaning by Victor Frankl. You can also not commit suicide without a singular life meaning. See myself, who has no singular meaning to life, but still is not committing suicide. Finally, I would encourage you - you, specifically - to stop looking at your situation as binary. (Has helped / has not helped.) What you've tried so far has kept you alive. You should absolutely go get actual help and attention. But then, in your recovery, you should celebrate the 1% improvements. Not just the 100% ones. This is the only real way to create lasting change, habitually.

What to do when life loses all meaning

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I have been a longtime lurker on this sub and has taken advice from peoples' opinions. But even so, i have tried, the feeling yet remains. It has been years since we parted ways but the feelings i had for this person still lingers. I have tried to be stoic to things that usually do not matter and I usually am towards it, but when it comes to her, It's the only thing that can make me feel like shit. What can I do?

I think to some degree it's natural for important people to have a permanent imprint on us. There was a gal who left a mark on me when I was 20, and those feelings all came back when we were 37. I've had to let go of her twice. There's still an emotional imprint there, but without attachment or regret at this point. Ultimately you're the only person who can take a look at your own impressions, inspect them, understand them, and shift the opinions you've formed. I think step one is to name and identify what it is you're feeling. From there - what do those feelings usually mean? Anger can come from feeling like we've been wronged or had a boundary crossed. Grief and sadness - when we lose something. Anxiety - a fear of the future. Regret - a judgment the current you is placing on a younger version of you. Once you have that, ask yourself... what's the opinion you've formed here? What's the story you've made this out to be? When you inspect it with reason, does it hold water? Some element of it probably doesn't. Why is it hard to let go... I think it isn't necessarily "hard" so much as it just takes effort. If you've subconsciously formed a story or narrative about an outcome it's going to stay there indefinitely until you form a new opinion about it. There's the saying that "time heals all wounds" but I don't think it's an accurate one. If I break my leg it might "heal" over time... but in a fucked up way that causes me chronic pain :) It's not until we revisit these things and set them straight that the pain goes away.

Why is it hard to let go?

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Hello all. Yesterday I (F40) discovered that my partner (M41) has been cheating on me. I know that this is not my fault, is not a reflection on me as a person, and I accept that it is something out of my control. However, that does not mean I do not feel hurt by it. I have been betrayed by someone I am in love with. I am starting to feel a little bit annoyed at myself for feeling hurt, as I know it isn't productive and if I don't tackle it now it will have an impact on my mental health. I'd be very grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of any writing or quotes that might help me feel better about things. I'd be particularly interested in ideas about overcoming difficult times, feelings of betrayal, and forgiveness. TIA

Your approach so far is sound. Something happened to you, not because of you. You are acknowledging your normal human emotions hurt, annoyed, betrayal, etc. you should feel those things. Being a stoic doesn't mean that you don't have strong feelings or emotions. We are all human. We all get angry, sad, happy, annoyed at times. The difference is, I think, that a stoic is not driven by their emotions. You may want to rip your partners face off for hurting you and throw away all of their stuff, but you are able to see that an emotional reaction won't provide any change to the situation other than a temporary release of anger. In fact an emotional response can actually make your problems worse. Stoicism here can help stabilize you while you work through the deep feelings you described. Hurt doesn't go away with a punch to the wall. Sadness won't disappear with a kick to the shins. Together, they will give you a broken hand, a broken toe, regret, and the sadness and hurt are still there. I wanted to also point out that since you mentioned your mental health....you need to take care of yourself. I feel a stoic can be real to themselves as to where they are mentally, and understand what they are and are not capable of at any given time. If you need help, or think you need help, there are qualified people available to speak with you. Be your own best friend and provide yourself with all of the patience and support you would give to others faced with similar situations.

Stoic advice required for someone who has been cheated on

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I've been studying up on stoicism and incorporating stoic principles into my life the last few years. I've found it positive, and I don't really tell anybody - including my wife of over a decade. I've always been a bit of a closet stoic anyway - I've always found joy and contentment in the small things, listening to music, going to a movie, having a nice meal, going on a hike, and my goal in life now more than ever is to simply live in peace. Lately however I've noticed my wife is going on a particularly non-stoic path, the opposite in fact, and it's putting a strain on our relationship. Lately, she's much more concerned about personal appearance, personal wealth, and material things. She's kinda stuck on the hedonic treadmill, chasing bigger and better things - better clothes, better jewelry, better vacations etc. This year however money is tighter, as life is more expensive (the economy, inflation, cost of living etc.) and it's affecting her mood daily. She's said to me this weekend that she's unhappy and has got "nothing to look forward to" - despite the fact that we live in a comfortable home, both have gainful employment, good friends and family, and have at least one good vacation planned for later this summer. I don't know how to get her out of her funk, and it's starting to bring me down - not to mention it makes me a little resentful. I could introduce her to stoicism and some of its principles, but I'm honestly not sure she'd take to it. In fact, I think she'd reject it outright. I get the impression that she thinks I'm not ambitious enough, and don't earn enough money to give her the life she desires. I think she's projecting her negative outlook on me personally. At this point maybe professional counseling is necessary. Any advice? Thanks.

>don't earn enough money to give her the life she desires Stoicism completely aside, this is a terrible way for one human being to see another. If she wants more money, let her go and earn it.

Spouse/partner incompatibility/friction due to my stoic world view?

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I really like stoicism, but I feel like it's too hard for someone like me to act stoic, since I have always had a big anxiety disorder, so my head is always worrying about things inside or outside my control, and anxiety controlling and numbling my thoughts, making it hard to control my mind. Does anyone here also feel this? What help advice could you give for anxiety?

Perhaps instead of learning to 'act stoic' you can take a step back and work on 'thinking Stoic'? What I mean is, it's about examining your impressions. Is something good or bad, how can you look at it differently? I wonder if journalling can be your friend here? You can either gather a list of say 6 questions that you answer every day, or you can write down the things that made you anxious and what you found had a rational basis to your anxiety, and what was your mind playing tricks on you There is heaps on this site about journalling, or you can come back and ask for more suggestions if you want to ...

It's very hard to be stoic when you have anxiety disorder

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I want some advice. How a stoic would deal with it.

Start by outlining the damage. Get an accurate number on how "bad" the problem is. How many hours a day and week. From there just make progress. Aim for 5 minutes less per day, per week, even per month. It's about making the progress you can make. Be humble here. Be happier that you've made progress instead of belittling yourself about how far you have to go. If you stumble, go back and continue. Don't make it mean anything. Simply state the facts of the situation, time, place, location, and events, add no opinions. Then make a plan. If the plan doesn't work, just make a new plan based on what worked and failed from the last one. Have something to replace the time. Spend 5 minutes doing something you'd be proud of. You get to choose, just make sure you don't replace the new time with something equally as bad or worse. Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.

How to get rid of stress and loneliness related porn addiction?

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What's the stoic way to deal with lust? I know it's not possible to entirely eradicate it as it's natural but any advice to significantly reduce my urges would be appreciated. Also is it possible to become voluntarily asexual?

I just rub one out once in a while. That is in my control, doesn't hurt anyone and it simply keeps the urges in check.

How to deal with lust?

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I'm 36 and a journalist, or at least I used to be. After 7 years on the job, I was treated with horrible emotional abuse by my bosses, forced to undergo a humiliating Personal Improvement Plan that ended in my termination. That was in 2021. Despite my best efforts, dozens upon dozens of job interviews, getting to the second, third, and fourth round of interviews, I couldn't find another job. I freelanced as much as I could, got part-time jobs to supplement them, but none of them added up to any long-term stability. After offering some financial support over the last few years, my parents finally offered an ultimatum: they would pay for grad school in a completely new field for me. They, and my friends and partner, think this new fields plays to my strengths. Lacking any other options, and failing to come up with any alternatives on my own, I agreed. The plan makes sense on paper. Yet as I approach the beginning of classes, I am met with sudden anger that is very un-me. I get furious at my old bosses even though I know their actions were beyond my control, I get furious at myself for my career even though I know I was only making decisions with the information I had available at the time. I have made stoic values part of my life, and my partner reminds me of them regularly as I try to work through this struggle. Even though I have this new path available to me, and I should be grateful for it, I feel nothing but self-hatred and despair. Any advice for working through these feelings?

It sounds like you are working through these feelings consciously. That is what you need to do. Don't let any keyboard stoics here tell you otherwise. The truth is, we can know intellectually all we want about the dichotomy of control, or about stoic intellectual philosophy. But when it comes down to it, to real big life events, we actually have to WORK THROUGH big feeling responses. That we are having big feeling flow is NOT a failure. That IS the work of the Stoic. To have big feeling flow, and to let Reason/Awareness/Choice lead, IS the work of the Stoic. There is nothing wrong. Don't believe me? Let's have Seneca back you up on this. Where he specifically says having a feeling is not a problem, not even defined as an "emotion" and certainly not a failure of Reason. >An emotion, then, does not consist in being moved by the appearances of things, but in surrendering to them and following up this casual impulse. For if anyone supposes that turning pale, bursting into tears, sexual arousal, deep sighs, flashing eyes, and anything of that sort are a sign of emotion and mental state, he is mistaken and does not understand that these are merely bodily impulses.... >A man thinks himself injured, wants to be revenged, and then -- being dissuaded for some reason -- he quickly calms down again. I don't call this anger, but a mental impulse yielding to reason. Anger is that which overleaps reason and carries it away. So I could go into all kinds of practical advice for actually working through these feelings. But the very first thing I think is foundational here, is that *you are doing it* -- you are doing the work. And that the work is actually learning how to let these big feelings flow! For goodness sake, the modern stoic community is deeply confused here if we think there's something wrong with feelings or that we have to make them go away somehow (aversion!). In 5.25 Marcus specifically says, if there is feeling that rises up into our body, we shouldn't make it wrong or attach to it. We just allow it: >if [passions] rise into the soul by any sympathy with the body to which it is united, then we must not attempt to resist the sensation, seeing that it is of our nature; but let not the soul, for its part, add thereto the conception that the sensation is good or bad. way. I would like to offer you a reframe for this phase of your life, that you will likely see in hindsight in 10, 15 years or something - this is a massive time of growth, a massive phase of transition and character development, a massive learning phase. All the places where feelings rise loudly into your experience are learning opportunities, specifically about how to release any attachment (that reality should have gone differently) and aversion (that this feeling shouldn't be here, that it shouldn't be like this, right now). Having large feeling come up is actually a blessing - because you can work through it and then you are someone who knows how to let feeling flow without it becoming an emotion - a thing that hijacks your Reason. It can actually be fun, and enjoyable to work with big feeling once you see it as the free master class that it is :)

Letting go of anger and finding agency

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There's someone in my life that has extremely angry reactions to every inconvenience, regardless how minor. As a (aspiring) Stoic I struggle between wanting to do something to placate this person and wanting to make this person understand that this kind of inflammatory reaction is not the only way to approach this. Has anyone been in a similar situation and can you offer any advice?

Use Stoicism to work on your own flaws, not rail against others. Be as virtuous as possible and be the type of person that people ask for advice on life. It's very tempting and easy to have the knowledge and share it with others, but Stoicism is a philosophy of doing. The person in your life will eventually see that your way of doing things is better, or they never will. Either way, outside of your control

Stoic response to "anti-stoic"

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I need a serious advice on this. In my past relation (which is my first), I had been kind and put up with the person calmly (didn't know about Stoicism back then, but been out of kindness, knowing the value of people) but looking back, the person emotionally abused me everyday, like a mind game (I thought a lot of times to end life and tried too, but the person couldn't care less). Though I kept up, and tolerated, I got dumped - no call, no text all, just off. And all of a sudden and people who I thought were 'friends' just took her side making plans with that person, dinner plans and shit (they are opposite sex) and never even bothered to ask me how I am. ( we both never really hung out often with these 'friends', but all of a sudden they became that person's 'best friends' ( from what one of my real friend told, they are mostly opposite sex). It's all like, I feel like a fool. I lost the opinion on words 'Friends' and 'love'. And I don't understand what I did wrong. After knowing Stoicism, I feel like I have only missed the 'keep in mind it's temporary' meditation. I want to deconstruct this in Stoic way and learn from this, help please. a little background about myself - I'm easy to forgive because I lost many people in my life since I was young, parent dying when I was a kid and everything made me kind of introvert. I don't share things with people easily because everyone seems to use them against me.

>And I don't understand what I did wrong. You didn't. Love isn't a "game" that you can "win", and that if it ends up not working out it doesn't mean you somehow failed to do it "right". As for the "Stoic way of love", we are encouraged to love as deeply as we can without risking our tranquility and equanimity, and that's a different level for each individual. I love my wife dearly, but I keep her(and my) mortality at the forefront of my mind, not to mention her ability to leave at any given moment. While it sounds depressing, understanding that it isn't fully in my control allows me to appreciate the time with her I do have(the current moment) and be a more passionate and considerate husband, which of course helps the relationship grow stronger. ​ >Never say of anything, "I have lost it"; but, "I have returned it." Is your child dead? It is returned. Is your wife dead? She is returned. Is your estate taken away? Well, and is not that likewise returned? "But he who took it away is a bad man." What difference is it to you who the giver assigns to take it back? **While he gives it to you to possess, take care of it; but don't view it as your own, just as travelers view a hotel.** **^(Enchiridion 11)** ^(Edit: typo)

What's The Stoic way of love?

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As I understand, in "The Prince" Machiavelli argue ways for those who follow virtue to "rise up" in society by employing techniques, particularly immoral ones, that successful tyrannical figures achieve success with. While clearly a stoic should not be concerned with acquiring success or political influence, nor can one justify immoral actions for the sake of personal gain, can a stoic still learn from Machiavelli's philosophy, even if used as a guide of what not to do? I became interested in this particular dichotomy when I saw a short video titled "Machiavelli's advice for nice guys" (https://youtu.be/GTQlnmWCPgA). It made me wonder if you could establish a middle ground between stoicism and machiavellianism that would allow one to tiptoe the fine line of what's virtuous or even ethical in the attempt to be less submissive (aka a "pushover"). While stoicism is a far more morally sound system of thought, it seems to limit a person from making significant change in the world, whether in politics (where Machiavelli focuses on), or in day to day life such as changing someone's mind or pushing them toward a more virtuous path. All of this stems my personal belief that no singular philosophy is wholly and truly perfect, and that it's more likely that some conglomerate of ideals from various schools of thought can coalesce into something greater than the sum of its parts, or in other words taking the best from each and discarding the rest.

Machiavelli's is more like a work on psychology rather than the antithesis of stoicism. It is for people who strive for more but cannot understand where they go wrong . If you read in the view of analysing it , you would get the answer " we're all actors in this acting a specific role at a specific time and the only time you don't act is when you're dead" it leads you to be stoic all the times as you don't have to get emotional but rather a pragmatic to benefit every situation tp your side . This is my take on the prince

Is Machiavelli's "The Prince" antithetical to Stoicism, or a response to it?

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I've really been struggling to keep myself on track with my goals recently and I was wondering if there's any stoic advice that pertains to this? (that preferably isn't memento mori, I've heard that one a lot already)

Do you "combat" putting your hand on the stove? Likely not at all. You only fight the urge to do what you think is improper. Right now you think working is the wrong choice. Instead of comparing yourself to a figment of your imagination where you do things perfectly I offer to be willing to do them poorly. You can improve what's there, not what doesn't exist. As of now your trying to pull a weight thats too heavy for you, just lower the weight. Look at what you're asking yourself to do and ask for less *until* you start. Work for one minute and let that be enough for a day, it's more than you usually do, why can't that be a victory?

Stoic advice for combatting procrastination?

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First things first: this is a throwaway account. I am a frequent reader of this subreddit and the abundance of sage advice given here has been very valuable to me. Thank you all for that. The reason for this post - as the title suggests - is something that has weighed heavily on me for quite some time and I am at a point where I feel like I need help dealing with it. I am sorry if the following is mostly an incoherent mess, the feeling is so intense and has been pent up for so long I don't know how to begin writing it down. I have always been a lover of nuance in opinions and thought. I do not believe that the answer to any challenge is ever black or white, right or wrong, 1 or 0. I believe any issue deserves to be discussed in a neutral manner, where opinions that fall outside of the doctrine accepted by the majority are not ridiculed or rejected just for not being completely in line with the concensus. It is therefore quite distressing to me that public discussion on pretty much anything concerning any type of ideology (in a broad sense) has become increasingly polarized over the past few years - at least that is my impression. On top of this comes the prevalence of the idea that it is each person's responsibility to police their fellow human beings and that outside opinions are something that need to be opressend, changed, weeded out. To me this is starting to take the shape of thought policing, where it does not matter what someone does, rather it is their opinions, thoughts and ideas that need weeding out. This is... scary is not the right word, but immensely sad to me and it feels anti-stoic. As a person who likes to live in the nuances, I feel that I have nowhere left to go. Every forum I subscribe to slowly becomes polarized and posts ridiculing the "opposition" or reinforcing the doctrine take up more and more space. And they are not opposed by anyone - or the few times they are, the community is quick to silence the "rebel". It is frustrating to me, because I agree on the premise of most modern ideologies, be it the necessity of vaccines, the empowerment of women, the need for climate-action, racial equality and so on, but I think that there are important nuances to discuss in all of them and it is simply not done. Worst of all I feel that it is taking hold of my girlfriend, whom I love with all my heart. She is increasingly preoccupied with what other people do, how they are wrong and how they are (she doesn't actually say this, but sometimes I feel that this is how she feel) subhuman. I realize the irony that I am actually myself preoccupied with other people's actions, although I will say that I do not judge them, they just make me incredibly and deeply sad. What is the stoic response to this world view (wether you agree with it or not)?

>I realize the irony that I am actually myself preoccupied with other people's actions, although I will say that I do not judge them, they just make me incredibly and deeply sad. It's more than just an irony, it is the root of your distress. For some reason, this attribute of human nature seems bigger to you than it really is, and the result is what Stoics call a 'passion', and unreasonable, disproportionate response. Understand why it seems so important, and you'll be able to set things right.

Dealing with a non-stoic world.

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Hey, Stoic people of reddit. Today, I want to share couple of things and hear what you are going to say. I have this feeling that people see me as a boring and uncultured person. That is the reason I try to avoid any social interactions as much as possible. Also, I have low self esteem and confidence about my personality. I can not explain all my thoughts but still I would love to hear your suggestions, advices(any advice would be great books, quotes etc.)

The modern usage of "feeling of inferiority," interestingly enough, seems to have started with Alfred Adler, who was a psychologist who developed a number of theories significantly inspired by Stoicism. To summarize: Adler suggested that the feeling of inferiority is a universal among humans. We are always aware of ways in which we are deficient--whether it be in terms of survival (as a small child might feel) or adult abilities. These comparisons can be very real and factual. For example, I am an objectively inferior artist, hunter, mechanic, etc. despite having skills in other areas. **Stoic Note:** *These items of inferiority do not need to have emotional judgement attached to them. They are neutral; indeed, the more intense the feeling may be, the more likely an unhealthy response to them will be.* The first step is to evaluate the feeling of inferiority. Might it actually be a feeling of shame, which would be the case if the area you are inferior in is culturally imposed? If so, you need to examine your judgments about whether it is valuable to follow the herd in this area. It's the epitome of pointlessness to feel inferior or make efforts to become superior in areas that you yourself don't value. If it's the product of someone else's value system, you're really wasting your life by feeling inferior or chasing after it. Read Seneca's *On the Shortness of Life* for more on this topic. On the other hand, maybe these domains are areas where you'd like to be competent, and are things that you value--but you are still currently inferior. If this is the case, then there are basically 4 ways you can respond to this feeling of inferiority. * **Inferiority complex:** Many people deal with feelings of inferiority by limiting themselves in some way. For example, one may feel inferior as a writer, but tell oneself "I just don't have time to write. Once I finally I have time I'll definitely be amazing." or "If only I'd had a chance to go to a first-tier school; then I'd be a successful engineer. I guess I'll just have to be satisfied as I am." This is basically a way to use false causality in order to blame external circumstances, rather than oneself, for inferiority. *More importantly*, it is an excuse not to try. If you don't try, you don't have to fail and continue to feel inferior. You can always give yourself hope that you are just a temporarily limited superior being. * **Superiority complex:** This strategy relies on fabrication, boasting, or "giving authority" to boost one's *perceived* superiority in the eyes of others. In other words, one still is and feels inferior, but relies on showing off, bragging about connections, or boasting about accomplishments in order to temporarily alleviate one's perceived inferiority. * **Superior-inferior complex:** This is an attempt to demonstrate a special kind of superior inferiority by invoking victimhood. For example, one might say "You would never understand what it was like to get my crappy education. I never had enough money for a single book and had to work instead of doing homework." or "You'd never understand what it's like to be a social reject like I am. You can't understand what it is like to struggle socially as I have. Someone like me doesn't deserve any attention from others." The important thing is that this is substituted for real attempts at attaining true superiority. * **Striving for superiority:** This is the only healthy response to feelings of inferiority (in cases where you actually value potential superiority). This requires the opposite of what you're doing; it demands engagement with the object of inferiority. It means having the courage to face trying, failing, and then continuing to try. It means not comparing yourself to others but rather just being as courageous as one can in facing feelings of inferiority, fear of scorn and failure, etc. Your case is actually kind of a classic example. >I have this feeling that people see me as a boring and uncultured person. That is the reason I try to avoid any social interactions as much as possible. Also, I have low self esteem and confidence about my personality. Okay. You think you're boring and uncultured. What are you going to do about it? First of all--you're not going to get anywhere by isolating yourself. If you actually want to spend time with people, do so whether you think you're boring or not. Guess where good social skills and the ability to make interesting comments comes from? Practice. Participation. Even if it's scary. I'm not going to lie--sometimes people might reject you. That's where the Stoic side of all this comes in--you need to be courageous. You need to face this inferiority and put yourself out there--without being super attached to any particular result. There are, of course, things you could do. You could read books about being social. You could talk to a therapist. You could explore your own areas of interest and socialize with people that "get" you in these areas. But none of that is going to matter or be worth anything unless you're actually engaging. And all of the above are great ways to develop an inferiority complex and procrastinate actually *doing* what you need to do--which is talk to people. You have low self-esteem and feel people think you're boring. So what? You're not hurting anyone by interacting despite this. And you'll get better. Being boring isn't an inherent part of anyone's personality. You should not, as others have suggested, simply accept your situation and be at peace with your isolated social role in life. *But nor should you set your heart on social success.* Neither is actually the Stoic way. The Stoic way is to find rest and peace in *exercise of the virtues.* You find peace in *doing your best*, regardless of success or failure. Is sociability good? Is it good to have friends or a partner? These are nice things, but your happiness need not depend on them. Nevertheless, they point the way to fields of endeavor that are probably worth some effort, and as such this means they are probably valuable ways to practice virtue. Maybe they don't deserve as much effort as, say, ruling an empire or trying to control/depose Nero. Maybe they don't deserve as much effort as supporting a family or putting food on the table, or pursuing justice. But it is still a valid, natural field of human activity and deserves at least some attention. And if that's the case, then it deserves *virtuous* attention. So try your best and accept the result. Take joy in your exercise of courage. But I do want to point out that you shouldn't be subjecting all this to direction from social values. What I mean is--there is no value in trying to up your social cred with the wrong group. There is no value in just adopting their values and thought patterns. Be yourself, but strive for the best version of whatever that is. By the way, if you'd like to learn more about Adlerian psychology specifically a great book is *The Courage to be Disliked*, which was written by two Japanese authors as a dialogue-based way to teach Adler's methodology.

What does Stoicism suggest about feeling inferior to others?

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Hi everybody. I found my Dad yesterday morning. He'd died suddenly in his home, alone. This hurts immensely to think about. Around 8 years ago I also found my mother dead. I thought I'd processed that, but I'm finding all those feelings are coming back up now. Maybe that's natural, I'm not sure. A couple of months back I had started to dabble in Stoicism as a concept. I've listened to Meditations and found it really insightful in reframing everyday life. I was hoping to get some advice on the Stoic approach to grief, as I'm really struggling here to tell you the truth. Could anybody point me in the right direction? Thanks very much.

First of all, time has a curative effect on your mind. So give it some time to start with. Remember Seneca when he wrote to his mother a letter to console her grief: > I realized that your grief should not be intruded upon while it was fresh and agonizing, in case the consolations themselves should rouse and inflame it: for an illness too nothing is more harmful than premature treatment. So I was waiting until your grief of itself should lose its force and, being softened by time to endure remedies, it would allow itself to be touched and handled. - Seneca 11.1 Of Consolation to Helvia I realize that you are suffering. But that is natural. Don't suppress it. Don't deny it. Lean into it, at least for a day or two. Most often you will find yourself starting to come to terms with what has happened. Consider looking up what the Stoics had to say about grief, perhaps the rest of Seneca's letter above. The common themes I used to interrogate my grief were; * Everyone must die, those are the rules of life, why should I desire the rules to be changed just for me? * We are all given a certain amount of time, is there not some gratefulness to be had in that he had this much time rather than this little? * I am not alone for his wisdom lives on in me. Not only in terms of what virtues to imitate but also in his flaws, and what to avoid. * There is no suffering in death, there is no harm. It is no evil. I would feel grief, weep, course correct by interrogating it and then distract myself. And repeat the pattern. The Stoics prescribe a lot different. But personally I wasn't ready to implement all the prescriptions at a time of crisis. It would be like waking up at the olympics and trying to become an athlete while running the race by reading a book while running about how to become a runner.

Advice on Grief

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About a month and a half ago my now ex girlfriend completely shattered my heart (Not gonna go into much detail about it. But my post history has a lot about it). I cried myself to sleep every-night for two weeks. I've been somewhat getting better, and haven't been as sad about it for the past 3 weeks or so. Mostly due to stoicism I've been able to accept what happened somewhat. But there's just some residual sadness there. I wouldn't even call it sadness though because I don't really feel that sad about it anymore. It's more like a "smug" feeling that's constantly just there all day. I can still go about my life fine. It's just that feeling.. It's just been overall detrimental to my happiness. Is there any stoic advice to shake this feeling and my ex? Feel free to ask if you need more context. Thanks.

You're right, you can't "shake it". You have to accept the situation **and** the feelings around it. Day by day, take care of your responsibilities and try to act appropriately regardless of how you feel. Don't skip school to stay home crying, but when the day is over and you're back home, go ahead and cry if that's what you feel. Break ups hit like nothing else, you'll probably feel sad about this for a while. i'm assuming you're young and this is your first love. You will get over it, and most likely will go through the same thing with another girl at some point - probably multiple. I've been there twice. I'm 2 years out from the last one and it still stings sometimes. Stop trying to feel better, accept the emotions as they come. There's no magic switch or perspective change that will take away the pain. Just gotta go through it.

I've been trying to shake my ex girlfriend and that pain that comes with the breakup. But it seems like I just can't.

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Long story short: my brother and his wife have been separated for a few years now. But they have a (five year old) son together whom I love more than anything on earth. But my brother, at the moment, is not very financially secure. Between having to take care of his son and paying child support to his wife, as well as taking care of a dog, he's not doing very well. And him and my dad also do not get along and they came to blows last thanksgiving getting into a proper fight. My heart aches for him, and the main reason is because I can't control the situation. I've tried coming to terms with the stoic idea that it's all outside my control but that hasn't helped much. Neither has engaging in negative visualization and thinking about the worst possible thing that could happen (my SIL gets full custody of their son and possibly takes him back to her home country while my brother is all alone, leading to him possibly killing himself). I'm just at a loss on what to do at this point and am hoping someone here can provide guidance. Or if it is outside the purview of this sub, let me know.

>I've tried coming to terms with the stoic idea that it's all outside my control but that hasn't helped much. It's not an idea. It's a fact. After which you get to choose whether to agonize over things you can't control (e.g. the future and other people) or focus on doing what you can as best you can. If you can help your brother, do that. Encourage him verbally, show him you care and let him work to improve his own situation. Help him financially if you can (unfortunately, you may discover that money weakens the bonds of love). You should remember none of these things were forced upon him, from marriage and his son, down to the dog. He picked up these responsibilities. He chose to fight your father. He is a grown man that you are not responsible for. Only he is.

Stoic advice for dealing with my brother and his current familial and financial situation?

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Hello everyone, I'm aware of the basic principles and theory of stoicism. However, is there anything relating to the sphere of self respect and self confidence? In a nutshell, I am aware my self confidence and self respect are near an all time low and I was wondering for a stoics opinion or advice on how to come to terms with where I am, what is keeping me here and what actions I need to take to realise the situation and push through them. This isn't a oh I'm worried what others think situation, it is purely, I have recognised this in myself and wish to find a stoics methodology to combat this issue and progress to the next step. Thank you for reading this far In the past I have already... I'm order to remove fears and anxieties I have thought along the practical lines of try it and see. And that has so far kept me well, sometimes it goes well and others it fails but it's better to be aware of the realities and prepare for them and then go ahead with it rather than worry and this has helped me progress in my career and network with people I was too anxious to speak with.

When you say you confidence in yourself is low, what standard are you measuring your capabilities against?

self confidence and self respect questions

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So for some back story. I am a 25 year old male who works as an HVAC technician by day. I am the oldest of 5. I have three younger siblings still in elementary school. Two of them are boy girl twins (8 years old) and the last one is a 10 year old girl. Obviously Im very close with them and always try to set an example for them. With covid they were switched over to partial home schooling. My mother works full time and inquired me to help her find a tutor for them to help them in areas that they are struggling. I love to teach, so I offered myself to be their tutor. 3 days a week Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm super excited but also sort of nervous. I guess I would like some advice from other stoics who have tutored before. Thank you.

Start them small - their appetite for home-learning will be small at first, and so the lesson should have a short duration. Make the first few lessons easy and short, and easy to "win" at. Over 5 lessons or so, ramp up to full difficulty - this will likely be the difference between every lesson being a fight and every lesson being something they willingly turn up for. It'll be routine before they hit any difficulties. If they hit difficulties before it is a routine, their solution will be to try to avoid it the whole thing, and you can't win a battle of wills against a 10-year-old (and you *definitely* can't win against an 8-year-old) - children have iron wills but tiny brains.

Tutoring my younger siblings. General advice and possible ways to introduce them to stoic thought.

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A lot of the people in my life are very extroverted and I am the polar opposite. I mean introverted in the sense that I get my energy from being alone and being around others drains me, but I still do want to see people Usually at gatherings I have a great time initially catching up with everyone. But then I inevitably hit the introvert wall suddenly all these lovely people become intolerable to me (just to be clear I have no judgement towards extroverted people, I just it all overwhelming and need alone time). I've developed a lot of coping mechanisms which mainly involve disengaging politely and finding some alone time to recuperate or simply going home. Sometimes however it just isn't an option and I'm stuck with complete sensory overload and can't think straight. Are there any Stoic coping mechanisms for these times when it simply isn't feasible to disengage without being rude?

If I have my own car, I leave if needed. I don't let others intimidate me into staying.

Stoic advice for introverts

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(Need Advice) How do i practice being stoic. For all my life my feelings always got the best of me and ended up me being backstabbed and hurt by people based on my value of help and kindness . How do i attain discipline and not give a fuck about the opinions of other people. We live in a world where other people matter so my questions to you fellow redditors is what mental changes do i have to do to become stoic what are the daily exercises to becoming mentally \\stoic' Anger has a a better of me that i make decisions that cause regret later how do i change this

Becoming a stoic is a case of following your head rather than your heart. Emotions are inconsistent. Useful, yes. Necessary, yes. But inconsistent. **Logic** is consistent. You're looking for a way to make the hard things easy, but that will never happen. Don't wish for an easy life. Become strong enough for a hard one. Next time you encounter a situation in which you know what you should do, but want to do something else, **see it as a dragon to be slain.** Say you have to make your bed but you're tired and want to watch tv instead. Recognise this as your test, and overcome it, and when you overcome it, recognise it as a triumph. From there, just keep the momentum. Keep overcoming and staying aligned with your logic. You will not always succeed. But that is not an excuse to fall back into comforts. Try again. Be courageous. Grab the damn sword and keep swinging. Be smart. Be wise. Be brave.

I Plan on becoming stoic help...

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Recently I've cut down on material things such as clothes, I've stopped caring so much about money and so on, so I care a lot less about material things not because I'm trying to be stoic or anything just because I literally don't care about them anymore, but now however I've been left with no motivation, what should I be motivated to do? If not to make money or to obtain material things? Well my motivation should be to get a good education get a good job right? But for what? To make money? Which I don't care about? I'm lost so would do with some advice thanks

Money is a useful tool as long as you know what you are going to use it for, but if you do not know what you want to do, just start trying things out and concentrate on the small things. Get moving (literally, go for a walk), find ways to do good, help others, learn skills, read, you can worry about meaning and purpose later.

Materialistic

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I always worry about how my voice sounds to others, stumbling over my words, running out of things to say, not doing something that is expected of me in certain situations and looking clueless. I feel like everyone is observing how I behave. Social interaction are terrible for me. I am scared of everyone....

I could tell you about Epictetus or Stoic theory. But that is for after. First... have you considered seeing a therapist specialized in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy? They could literally care less if you stumble over your words, how your voice sounds and so on.they just want to help with specifically your problem. A lot of them can do first sessions over the phone too or face time. CBT finds its roots n Stoicism and is meant to solve a particular psychological problem such as irrational fear of something. Stoicism goes a lot further and also teaches you a way of life.

please I need stoic advice to cope with social anxiety

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(I understand that I should really just seek professional help regarding my BPD but please understand that as of now I am incapable of affording therapy) ​ All my life I have had trouble sustaining close relationships with people, especially people I have been closely attached to, romantically or platonically. It was 1.5 years ago that I studied about BPD and a lot of my behaviour started to make sense. Let me clarify that I have not been diagnosed by a medical professional, but my diagnosis is completely autonomous after reading countless articles, watching videos and having conversations with people afflicted with BPD. I started following advice that was given to me by people, or recommended to me by the internet. Quite frankly, that did not prove to be of siginificant help. I ended up ruining relationships with two people in just a matter of a few months because of my impulsiveness, aggression and volitility. I get triggered by the smallest things sometimes. A person cloes to me could look at me differently, and it would make me feel hurt and angry. They might end up doing nothing at all in some circumstances and that would hurt me as well. Whatever actions they perform, even though it might not be inherently bad, it almost strikes me as the evillest thing they could do to me. I had really had enough of my own behaviour and I felt as if I was going crazy. I stumbled upon a video about Seneca, and the whole concept of stoicism was unfurled to me. I feel the need to clarify again that I am not sure where i quite stand as a "stoic". I only possess cosmetic knowledge of this philosophy, and have barely even read Letters from a Stoic by Seneca (Just two of the letters, as I remember). I have sort of combined my own ideals with that of whatever I could grasp from the resources on Stoicism to act in a certain way whenever I am going through an emotional outburst. This is what I usually do when I am going through a bad episode- ​ 1. I let my emotions flow through me, and I try to identify exactly what it is that's bothering me. I try to find the root cause. I try to understand my triggers. 2. Once I have understood my feelings, I force myself to NOT act at all while I am still going through a breakdown. I withdraw myself from the situation and isolate myself. 3. Once I am back to my senses, I either decide to take an action after rationally studying the situation, or I do not act at all. This seems to have been working really nicely for me, atleast for the past few months. I have saved myself from ruining several relationships over the past year. There were atleast 3 instances where I strongly felt that I evaded situations that could've destroyed my bonds with the people closest to me. But as of lately, I have been faced with a dilemma that I wish to solve- If I really try to not act on my feelings, am I sort of lying to myself? Am I being unfair to my natural brain chemistry by acting in a way different from what I should be acting as? I am not sure whether I have really controlled my destructive emotions or whether I have been enslaved by them. I feel no less than a caged bird trying to break out. It almost makes me feel as if I am putting restrictions on myself, as though I am limiting my own life by not doing what I wish to be doing. Although I do understand that my actions could lead to harm that I would have a hard time getting over, but the thought of acting on my impulses feels almost tempting during my episodes. When I isolate myself, it almost feels as if my emotions are burning me from the inside. Once I am out of my breakdown, I start questioning myself whether "burning" myself was the better option all along, at the expense of not telling the person what I felt in that moment, that could potentially harm the both of us. ​ ​

I can't think of anything better for one who has Borderline Personality Disorder than to study Philosophy (in particular Stoicism). So, Congratulations there! You can and will help yourself immeasurably when you study and apply what you learn. I am not an expert about Borderline Personality Disorder, but I was raised by a Mom who definitely had all the hallmarks of it. As a result of being raised by her I adopted her "black and white thinking" which is a handicap, as I am sure you are aware. I, like you, wanted to improve my life and didn't have much money for therapists, so I studied RBT (Rational Behavioral Therapy) on my own. RBT and (CBT Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) are both built on Stoic philosophy. The great news for you and I is that BPD is a thinking disorder and we are in charge of what we think! Identify first what is in our control and what is not. We do not have any dominion over the thoughts and actions of others. Stoicism teaches us that things are not "good" or "bad" it is our thinking that makes it so. I encourage you to read more about Stoicism and find an author who resonates with you. Many people like Ryan Holiday. I found a lot of value in a book by William Irvine. There are many YouTube videos about Stoicism. Here is a good [introduction](https://youtu.be/seLLJP3H1FU) by Massimo Pigliucci, Professor of Philosophy, he has written some good books too. I'm confident that you can make huge strides in improving your life if you study! Take advantage of all the good people on Reddit who are willing to help you.

I have been using the Stoic Philosophy to counter my Borderline Personality and something bothers me.

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People always say "Be happy in the success of others" but I am just not able to apply it. Instead of getting motivated by the success of other people I get demoralised. Other people succeeding not only makes me jealous, but more importantly, it reminds me of my own failure. It brings about thoughts like "I couldn't do it but this person could. Am I just not good enough?" Not only is this bad for my mental peace but it also disrupts any progress I've made and makes me want to give up. It also creates a sense of malice that shouldn't exist. How would a stoic deal with this and channel it to better themselves? Edit: Thank you for the advice everyone. I have understood a lot and realised what to do now. Thank you.

How are you measuring success? I am in my early 50s. I have worked my way to ... Ehh .. upper middle class. My family is by no means wealthy, nor do we go without. I would say, we are financially stable. I have 1 job I hate, and own a business which I love I have a modest home at 900 square feet. I am an honest man who runs an honest business. I sleep well at night on a clean conscious. I have a wife who I believe to be exceptionally beautiful, however, that is because I choose to see her that way. She is 5'6", around 200 lbs, and somewhat plain looking. She has beautiful eyes, soft Mousie brown hair, her skin is as soft and smooth as a baby. She's exceptionally beautiful to me because I choose to not judge her according to the "beauty standards" of others. I have 4 children, some I made, some I didn't. They all love me without question. Even the one who has faltered and is making amends. I have friends with huge homes, I have friends who have the latest cars, beautiful jewelry, latest phones. Many of those friends are 1/2 a million in debt. They argue with their families about many things. Are they more successful than me? I have nearly no debt. I have a wife who I adore, and she adores me. I have kids who are little monsters, but I was too. They know they are loved and I know they love me. They will grow and learn. Check the stick by which you measure success. Be proud of your achievements. Each day, the only person you need to strive to be better than is the person you were yesterday. Find peace within yourself.

How do I suppress jealousy that stems due to the success of others?

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I have been practicing and studying stoicism for the past two years, but sadly, all of a sudden, everything I learned has gone away. For example, everything I thought this philosophy to make me think does not affect me like it used too. I am slowly reverting to my old self. That being worried about everything, thinking too much about the future, I'm not willing to take on challenges and now I am constantly doubting myself. I am at a lose and I do not know what to do. Im afraid. Thank you for reading. Any advice would help.

Alright. With the limited information I have about your situation, my best suggestion is to go back to basics. If you feel you are regressing, return to the starting point of your journey with Stoicism and remind yourself of the basics, why they make sense & why they're important. Have you been working very hard lately? Consider taking some time off to relax. Which stoic writings have you read, apart from Ryan Holiday?

Needing Advice from fellow Stoics

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I'm in a pretty desperate place right now and thought I'd see if this community could help me out. To give a little background, one of my very precious cats has a genetic heart disease that seems to be progressing. He's only 7 years old and seems very healthy otherwise, but his heart may be failing. I've known that the day I get bad news could be coming, so I've done some reading on the stoic perspective on grief and loss, but now that I've gotten bad news it seems like all of that work has just gone out the window. I'm a total mess, unable to focus on the tasks I need to complete for the day because I can't stop thinking about this anticipatory grief. I've seen some other posts on this sub related to pet loss, but most of them have to do with older pets that have lived full lives. I'm struggling with finding a stoic way to cope with the premature loss of such a young cat. Please let me know if you have any stoic advice for making it through such a challenging time.

otherize. What would you tell a friend or a stranger in a coffee shop? sometimes thinking in 3rd person as if it is not happening to you helps with the emotional tie of a pet. Some thoughts: The mind that is anxious about future events is miserable. Give yourself the gift of the present moment. Enjoy each day because it could be your last or your pets last. Remember your children (or pets) are not your own, but are lent to you by the creator. Don't cry because it is over, smile because it happened. Wishing you peace of mind and life in the present moment.

Advice on how to deal with a young, terminally ill pet

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I'm pretty new to stoicism and I'd like to know what advice stoics have for someone who is really constantly comparing themselves to others. I'm really bad with this and I make everything about myself. If a friend gets a promotion I think "why not me?" or they get into a relationship I think "why not me?". I feel like nothing good happens to me and I want to learn to focus on myself and improve my life instead of thinking so much about other people's lives and what they're doing.

Consider that it makes no sense to envy someone who you do not know is happy. And consider that you can never know whether someone else is happy. Therefore, envy never makes sense.

How can I stop comparing myself to others?

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Dear Stoics, tldr: My mother is dysfunctional and her mindset is the cause of her suffering. She doesn't take good advice. Watching her suffer is making me sad, sometimes guilty that I don't try and help more, but I can't live her life for her. So what should I do? I really need some advice. By my own standard, life is great. I enjoy my job, my relationships with friends, physically healthy, financially stable etc. However, my mother who I love unconditionally, who has tried to provide me with everything she could (Extremely low income, immigrant) is the source of my discomfort. As I'm getting older, I'm starting to realise that she is her own worst enemy. She take zero accountability of her emotions and actions, she's financially incompetent, she's illiterate but refuses to learn how to read and write, refuses my advice to go to therapy (abusive childhood and relationship), she can't use a computer or a smartphone, the list really goes on. She's truly a dysfunctional woman, it breaks my heart to say it, but it's the truth. I'm 24, I've spent the past few years trying to help and advice her, but I've come to realise, I can't help her. She doesn't take on any advice. I've spent countless hours advising her, she'll listen but doesn't put anything into action, I know I'm wasting my time. Her demons are greater than me, they started long before I was born. How do I deal with this? I'm starting to accept that she'll die soon, from self inflicted stress. She doesn't sleep, she's overthinking about the past and things out of her control. I don't know what to do. I'm stuck between wanting to dedicate my formative years to helping her become happy, but I also need to live my life. What the fuck (excuse my language) should I do? What would the greatest Stoics do? I'm sorry if this isn't appropriate here or if I'm not coherent or just ranting.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. She is on her own journey, and she has to fight her own demons. We all do. You can do little things to help her, but you can't save her. She has to save herself

My mother is breaking my heart

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Disclaimer: this post may seem juvenile, but please bear with me, as I am truly seeking advice. Hello everyone. I am quite new to Stoicism, having found the philosophy a week ago and ordered meditations off Amazon. I have begun trying to apply the stoic ideas to my daily life and have immediately seen an improvement in how I manage stress, my obligations, and my outlook on life. One of my goals in 2023 is to divulge my feelings of love to a certain girl, whom I have been wanting to tell for months. However, I fear rejection greatly, as most people do. How would I best use stoicism to help me deal with the result confessing my feelings, whether positive or negative? Would I tell myself that her response is out of my control, so it is no use to worry about? Or would I approach it differently? I have been journaling my thoughts over the last few days, which has helped reduce some stress about it. Thank you all! I hope you have a wonderful day.

You don't "confess your feelings" to a person you have a crush on. You tell them you like them and you ask them out on a date. If they say no, then be a grown-up and say, "No worries!" Don't approach them about it again. If they say yes, then you can quit stressing about it. Either way, your fear of rejection is irrational. So what if they do "reject" you? What happens? Nothing. Your life goes on exactly as it has before, only you know they're not interested and you can move forward with your life. If they say yes, then that's icing on the cake. In both scenarios, you've effectively moved past your fear of rejection. Go get 'em tiger.

How would a stoic go about attempting to enter a relationship?

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Our one year anniversary is coming up and she has great things planned for us. We got a opera visit and dates and all that good stuff but I've been noticing, that instead of enjoying my time with her, I feel empty and a lack of feelings towards her for quite a whole now. This puts me in a spot with immense pressure since neither one of us is completely emotional stable and she wouldn't get far without the big emotional anchor I represent to her. I'm a person that even doe im still in school have to show strength and joy to the poeple around me since a lot of them depend on me. Maybe you are able to understand my situation and can give me one of tjose wise stoic quotes or just som words of encouragement and wisdom to help me do the right thing here since it's hard for me to open up to poeple in real life. I'll answer any questions and thank you for the advice in advance :)

> I feel empty and a lack of feelings towards her for quite a whole now. That can only properly end one way. Anything else would be dishonest, and unfair to both of you. How and when are up to you, but delay makes it more costly. The every day together is another day lost.

How do I deal with falling out of love?

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Hi all -- A few days ago I went to a party for a friend. I girded myself, knowing that they have some views I find bothersome, that vary from silly and misguided to repugnant and upsetting. But I prided myself on being the quietest person in the room for most of the night, letting those things just slide right off of me. In fact, it was one of my best performances in a long time, and the day after I was very, very proud of myself for letting so much slide. I thought I comported myself as a good Stoic. Trying to approach the conversations with a genuine detachment, entertaining views, or at least doing a good job of holding them at arm's length, not letting them penetrate my inner citadel. I reflected on a few of my favorite quotes in preparation for the night: * You can judge the size of a man by what makes him angry. --Adlai Stevenson (I recently misattributed this to Reinhold Niebuhr on this sub, sorry about that) * Learn to see others' behavior as a reflection of their relationship with themselves. But in the last day or two, I've spent a lot of time going over the things they said that bothered me -- mostly social or political views, in case that wasn't clear. I've spent a lot of time rehearsing arguments, thinking about how I would respond. What I could have said or should have said. Constructing airtight responses in my head... Some of their views, I thought, amounted to a kind of personal attack on me or my profession, and that bothered me. In other instances, they seemed to get angry about all of the wrong things and I could only shake my head. In other instances, they had views that were pretty ridiculous and suggested they had been getting their news from the wrong places, if you get my drift. In other instances, they might have made a worthwhile point but failed to realize that applying that view consistently would also undermine a lot of what they themselves believe, or commit them to other views they probably *didn't* want to take on. And on and on and on. A lot of very sloppy and poorly informed thinking, or a lack of empathy. And all wrapped into a kind of smug self-assuredness. This is one of my greatest weaknesses when it comes to Stoicism -- letting things like this get under my skin, and letting these thoughts fester for days or weeks or *months* after these conversations took place. That's why I was so proud of myself immediately after; because I knew this would be tough and I thought I had done well. But it's all creeping back in now. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

You might want to try relaxing into those thoughts. When they start up, just watch them... Don't engage, don't argue, don't back and forth... Just sit there watching. Watch and see how your body reacts and then, try to actively relax and let those reactions pass. If you're not feeding the thoughts with more mental effort, they should fade. You're teaching your body and mind to relax in the face of these things instead of reacting.

Need a pep talk -- bothered by my friends' views and spent a lot of the last few days rehearsing arguments

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So I (18/m) have been practicing stoicism for the past few months, but recently ran into a problem I can't seem to get over. A few weeks ago I had my heart shattered by someone I cared deeply about and who I thought cared about me as well. Unfortunately, this could not have come at a worse time for me, as I have exams in a few months with university placements riding on my results. I have not been able to concentrate on my work and my goals because of what happened. I try not to wallow in it and try to do things that bring me pleasure (play sports, serve my community), but whenever I sit down to work my thoughts wander. Unhelpful, intrusive thoughts. Mourning the things that we will do together no more and creating fake scenarios of what we could've been in my head. She also declined to give me any closure, so I feel very alone with this. I still have to see her almost every day and I subconsciously create strategies to try and get her back. I recognise these thoughts and imaginations as unhelpful, but it's almost like the pain keeps dragging me back kicking and screaming into this little personal hell I have created. I need to focus on my work, on my goals, but I simply can't. I thought I was stoic enough, but this is slowly killing me inside and out. Advice would be appreciated. Edit: She wasn't officially my girlfriend as a few people are suggesting. It was one of those horrible almost-relationships where I thought we had something, thus treating it as a proper relationship and investing into it as such. Added context, appreciating all the advice received.

Breakups can be great fuel. Put a saddle on that pain and ride it to greatness. Hit the gym, focus in on studies/career, etc.. Go built a life that bitch will regret not being a part of. A life well lived is the best revenge.

Need help focusing on my goals after a heartbreak

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Hello all, Daniel, 22M here. Have been reading up on stoicism for a few years now, but some times I am more stoic than others. Would appreciate any advice, stoic and non-stoic ( I have recieved great advice on this sub ). I feel like I fall in love, too easily, and as a result get heartbroken quite often too. Im average-decent looking I would say. Student-athlete with I would say good social skills. All it takes for me to fall in love with a girl is just a good first date and a kiss, and I feel like today, girls give those away like it's nothing, and im left quite upset as a result. I am no Don Juan, its true that I don't have a lot of options with women. I have had women who loved me, who I wasn't as attracted to - and vice versa. I hate being in love, I hate these ups and downs and how it makes me feel. I hate the uncertainty. Its unnatural. I don't like the game-aspect of it, the chasing and reeling. Why cant it be simpler, easier. We meet, the first date goes perfect, why the games now? Most of my success has been with older women, simply because they don't put up the same games, but I really want a younger girl my age. How would you look at it? What would you do? What am I doing wrong? Thank you, sincerely appreciate it P.S : Please no generic self improvement stuff, I work out extensively, am constantly learning, and I take care of my hygiene and style.

>All it takes for me to fall in love with a girl is just a good first date and a kiss, and I feel like today, girls give those away like it's nothing I mean they are nothing. If your only experience with someone is that you've eaten dinner with them once and kissed them once, then the thing you're calling "love" is actually "barely knowing someone". And it is *objectively* barely knowing someone - you call such a small thing "love" for a reason. It serves a purpose for you to define it this way - in your mind, it probably justifies a lot of extreme, inappropriate behavior that, were you not to brand it "love", you'd be forced to acknowledge as problematic. It's likely your entire sense of not being able to solve your problem is the result of ring-fencing certain toxic behaviors as "unassailable, on account of how this is *love*". >Most of my success has been with older women, simply because they don't put up the same games, but I really want a younger girl my age. But you've not had success - you're single. Older women are likely far more competent at extracting sex safely from a confused young man whilst not being entrapped by his toxic behaviors. They probably see what you're defining as "love", comprehend exactly why you're doing it, and know exactly how to navigate around your confusion in order to get what they want. But younger women are, ironically, not playing games - they want a relationship and by calling such a tiny thing "love" (which will cause you to *act* as though it's love), you demonstrate yourself incapable of building a relationship *together* (after all, you've gone all the way to the "end zone" without their involvement at all). You are playing games by the way - defining a single date and a kiss to be "love" is a game you're playing. Do not waste your time insisting you don't *behave* like you're in love - you do. It wouldn't be possible to define yourself that way and not act it out - to believe something is to live as though it's true. Those incredibly creepy, premature behaviors and why you cannot date successfully. Because this is merely a problem of definition, the solution is simple - you need to work hard and apply your willpower to *restraining* your tendency to define the situation his way. When you begin defining a minuscule amount of nothing as "love", you need to consciously apply your willpower to unwind that behavior. When you find yourself behaving as though that is true, you need to expend willpower to focus your attention on the fact it isn't and behave *that* way instead. It won't feel natural at first, but with practice, you'll quickly see the superior results it returns, and then you'll naturally begin to believe that what you were previously defining as "love" never was.

Advice on love and relationships?

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Hello all, I hope you're having a good evening. I have lurked this subreddit under a different account for sometime and I really appreciate the philosophy here, and attempt to apply it daily. This year has been good to me. I went back to school in January, entered into a relationship, and am on track to get all As this semester. Unfortunately I am feeling really low right now, and I would like some advice on how to handle myself. I am stressed from pushing myself in school, handling work, and a relationship. This path month has been hell on earth for school, I have been so busy. When I'm not working on school, I've been working, and if I'm not doing that I'm with my girlfriend. I kinda broke down in front of her tonight. I feel insecure, like she is going to get tired of me or find someone else. I feel like this is bottled up stress coming out, but I'm just not sure.

"In the morning when thou risest unwillingly, let this thought be present,--I am rising to the work of a human being. Why then am I dissatisfied if I am going to do the things for which I exist and for which I was brought into the world?" - Marcus Aurelius We are blessed with the gift of sentience and should be happy every day that we get to wield it, regardless of whether the sum of our experiences are good or bad that day. To be alive and feel and think and exist is a wonderful gift in it of itself, and we shouldn't let a day go by without acknowledging the fundamental wonder of our own being. It is always obviously easier said than done, but to acknowledge that life is long and will always have its share of hardship and suffering in proportion with its moments of levity is the only way to come to terms with the fact that existence is also just painful.

Need stoic advice on insecurity, anxiety, and stress management

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My poor 11 yr old had an accident in school because of their draconian bathroom rules. I know they are trying to limit kids from goofing off but this is worse than prison. Anyway, he asked to go, was told no and his worst fears came true. He isn't sure if anyone knows and is terrified to go back to school. What can I say to him that might help? I've come up with "we shouldn't allow ourselves to feel shame for what we can't control" but trying to find a better way to help him. This is the sort of thing that can traumatize a person for life so any advice is welcome.

I'm the father of a middle-schooler and I really feel for both of you. I think it's a tough age to teach stoicism to; kids are in the grip of their emotions, lack perspective on the relative importance of things, and so on. I think you may get farther with loving support than with suggesting stoic practices to your son. I'd also have a word with the school to get them to lighten up in their bathroom discipline.

Stoic Advice for a Middle Schooler

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I have an annoying habit of reading the news, not just normal headlines, but also diving into regional news of various countries and also global climate news, it often depresses me and makes me anxious, hence why I've been looking into stoicism, I'm buying meditations and Massimo Pigliucci's handbook for new stoics, but I was wondering what advice you'd have for someone like me, or some exercises to keep my mind within a more reasonable scope. Something that drew me to stoicism is when I heard it advises followers to worry only about things within ones control, which is something I sorely need to learn, I'm aware that outside of voting, there is little I can do for issues such as the climate, and for problems in other countries, there isn't anything I can do, so I know I shouldn't worry, but I feel almost addicted to depressing news.

one stoic value is cosmopolitanism. we are members of the world, and are eager to improve the world. "not being informed" is not really a stoic virtue. wisdom requires information to act on. it's not the news that makes you depressed and anxious, but your reaction to it. work on that. everything from your very body, out, is an external over which you have limited, if any, control. keep that in mind. you say the middle east is an area that concerns you less because of your knowledge of the history there. i think this is a point worth exploring. your wisdom (applied knowledge) allows you to maintain your equanimity when considering the (objectively brutal) suffering going on there. it's not the news being good (quite the contrary), but your interpretation of it, that allows this.

Advice for someone overly aware of worldly issues.

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Right now I am 19 years old, and since I was 10 years old, I feel quite serious about life most of the times. I really enjoy jokes, or funny TV programs, but do not watch those often and by no means enjoy chasing girls and partying as much as my peers. I live with a bunch of other University students, of which most of them seem to combinate work and pleasure quite decently. To me though, life is about accomplishing the things you want to accomplish, doing your best no matter what and trying to make use of the talents you've gotten; what buddhists would call *dharma,* and what stoics would call *Pius (Latin).* Since my passion is entrepreneurship, I started my first business still in high school and right now I am in the process of incorporating with two talented lecturers of a University. I enjoy the process of achieving great things, working as an entrepreneur, and love self-development. But since I do not like taking time off to ''chase girls'', party or drink beers as much as other people, I often get the reaction I "must be missing out on life". And sometimes, I have this fear too, because I am so serious about things since such a young age; what if they're right, and that I am wasting my young years? I do not at all feel like throwing away my carreer or something, but I am in need of some advice about how to deal with this situation. It's something I find practically no one can understand, because most of my peers will always try to defend the lifestyle of trying to make their life as ''nice'' of ''fun'' as possible, since that's their own lifestyle, too. I also want to add to this that I had a girlfriend when I was 17 years old, but since our break up, haven't done very much with girls. Sometimes, this really bothers me too. Am I just not interested in that sort of stuff? I can't imagine that. And will I regret not chasing them when I am 30? This might not be the most rational ''Stoic'' story you've ever read, but it's the truth of a rational person. I hope someone will maybe be able to give their thoughts on this. Thanks! L.

Bro your Just thinking too much. Do what you want to do no matter what Anyone says.

May I ask for some advice?

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I am fairly new to stoicism, and haven't read much yet. I am trying to make time for learning a tiny bit of this ideology everyday and implement it in my life. I get distracted quite easily. Attention span is barely 5-8 minutes on the best days. I also feel really restless while trying to concentrate. And end up scrolling for a long time before realising how much time I have wasted. I am trying to control the screentime by using site blockers and keeping my phone away. But they don't seem to be the best solutions even though they are working. I would like to know what stoicism says about this. Is there any stoic advice that can help me regain my focus and be more productive?

I would take the Marcus Aurelius approach. To be better, do less. You are surrounded by things that don't contribute to virtue. Those websites and apps are created by genius people who spend years in school learning how to optimize their product to manipulate you into spending more time on it and craving it so they can monetize your attention to sell you ads. I suggest removing as much as you can and focusing on what is important (virtue/excellence of character) and then removing things that contribute to vice. As you progress you can try to introduce them back slowly, but that takes a long time

Stoic solution to productivity and focus? (if any)

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It has been a month and a couple of days after me and my ex broke up. I have been reading Stoicism (meditations and Enchiridion of Epictetus) since and trying to study texts on my own. A lot of stoic ideas have been helping me move on and let go, but i am still finding it difficult to do so. There is no sadness from the break up because it was inevitable, no regrets, nothing, i forgive her for hurting me and everything. But I still miss her so much and she is on my mind all of the time. I want advice to let go from her and stop missing her, even stop loving her if possible because people in my place would hate her. I know she is with another guy and cant stop thinking about what they are doing and talking about, and thinking about how she perceive me because I feel like everything i did for her went unappreciated after the break up. Thanks.

Interesting, cause we probably went through similar cycles. It's been a year now since I've been introduced to the stoics. The Stoics would have you keep loving her, just understanding that the love you have for her is no greater than you'd have for another stranger, if you want to hate her, you'll have to find something else. If you want to learn to accept her choice as her doing what she at the time believed in best and coming to terms with the fact that you cannot be angry at her for that, then you have come to the right place. Let's tackle that last sentence "everything I did went unappreciated." Notice how with this sentence the entire value of all of your actions are instantly placed on how they are perceived or received. When we as people bestow a benefit, we must do so with the understanding that the act of doing good, be it virtuous or something else, is payment enough for the action. How that is perceived, handled, or ignored does not matter. You should judge yourself based on the motivations for your own actions. Did you do good to do good? Fantastic, then you have acted in accordance to your morals, pat yourself on the back and move on. Did you do something for the recognition? Then you simply don't deserve to feel good about it regardless of why you did it, take solace in virtue and acts of good intention. Take solace in knowing that you did the absolute best you could at the time. Finally a bit of two cents. You are taking yourself on a journey of growth and understanding. You are reading the books that changed the way I perceived my world. My ex cheated on me and not even a full year later, married the man she did with. I'm not perfect so I still make snide remarks.(working on it) but I do 100p believe her doing what she did was the best thing that ever happened to me. I changed my life, overcame so much, and proved to myself I can handle heartbreak. She repeated her same pattern. What to you may see as dark, like you are "losing," as a bad thing, understand that you are not god, that you are limited from an imperfect perception of the world. That this pain may be the key to unlock something greater. Good luck friend:)

Month After Break up

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I've been learning about Stoicism for a little over a year now; I'm not a religious person and I haven't looked into other philosophies but I ran across a video on Stoicism a while back and it really appealed to me. I consider myself to be agnostic, as I don't believe in a traditional God but don't necessarily think the wonders of the universe are a result of coincidence. I have this belief that as individuals, it is important to have some sort of personal religion (for lack of a better word) to help us keep our beliefs and ideals in check--Stoicism has helped me fortify my own personal religion. With that being said, I often struggle finding hope in difficult times. Since reading about the philosophy, I've come to understand that Stoics believed that the universe will never present us with anything that we are not capable of handling. I am all on board with this idea when life is in a pretty calm state or when giving advice to a friend, but once things get a bit shaky for me I forget all about it and sometimes find it difficult to cope. I'm sure I should be doing more than just turning to philosophy during hard times, but I'd like to know if anyone has any advice on how I can be better at implementing Stoicism when I need to the most?

Stoicism is pretty close to buddhism I think.. all yours feeling are normal.. embrace them. one need to develop awareness.. and see yourself from a 3rd person perspective.. then one can objectively make decisions/actions.

Unsure of how to practice Stoicism when I most need to

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I've been practicing Stoicism for some months and have noticed remarkable improvements in my thinking and emotional stability. I'm better equipped to manage negative emotions and prevent myself from dangerous mood spirals. And that has led to a healthier sense of self, less anxiety, and a positive attitude. But here's the thing: Stoicism works for me when I'm alone, but I can't seem to apply it in social situations. I know we're not supposed to talk rashly, flatter people, engage in banal talk, or fear others -- but I cannot stop doing these things for some reason. For context, I've had issues with people-pleasing, social anxiety, low self-esteem, and a general lack of confidence *forever*. I'm slowly overcoming them, but it seems like there's no progress. If you had issues with implementing Stoic principles when around people and overcame them, how did you do it? All useful advice and information are welcome. Thank you!

Try to think of the difficult people and things in your life as one approaches a sparring partner. Try to approach each challenge as a way to learn about yourself and grow. If you approach each challenge with that of one that is open to learning then you'll start to see real change.

How to remain Stoic in social situations?

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Ever since I adopted a stoic attitude towards life I have been happier. But my mind is still riddled with impressions and memories of incidents which happened way earlier in my life. And I cannot shake the hurt that comes with these memories. I feel incomplete and find myself wanting due to these. Looking for some advice and guidance about how to deal with these memories. Any suggestions? Edit: Thanks for your comments! I will think over what you replied.

I'm sorry to hear the affect that these past memories are having on you. But you must remember, that that's all they are memories, things that have come and gone and now have no physical manifestation. "If any external thing causes you distress, it is not the thing itself that troubles you, but your own judgment". The mind is very plastic, if it has the power to make you feel as you do, it also has the power to revert this also. I would suggest talking openly about these past problems, perhaps support groups/reddits of similar situations. This may make you see others have suffered also and help you accept what has come before. In saying that, Stoicism isn't the answer to everything, if these memories are still causing you problems, it may be that you need psychiatric help with the support of Stoicism alongside.

Dealing with painful memories.

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I've beat myself up and become pretty down and ragged - mostly because I've realized I seek validation from others. Not just from anyone - primarily my wife. I've felt unappreciated, unattractive - I've felt like there was this unknown expectation I had to meet. When my wife rejects me sexually, I struggle not to feel hurt - invalidated. If the one person that I trust and love doesn't want to be with me - I really struggle not letting that get to me. So much of my ego has been built on validation from my wife. My oh my, what a terrible place that has led me to. I often feel emasculated and weak. I find myself quick to anger with low threshold for coping. I feel trapped and constantly have the urge to run - escape from the situation I'm in (and one I've been trying to change for a long time). I started reading works from Aurelius and have been down the rabbit-hole of Stoic thought for a few weeks now. I'm thankful for this sub and the active members that seem to be genuinely interested in offering neutral opinions and guidance. I have a tendency to get lost in my own thoughts and have become buried in stoic thought. Can anyone recommend specific reading that's related to seeking validation? Any and all advice is appreciated, regardless.

I really feel for you and I think this is a common problem for most human beings including myself. I think Epictetus says somewhere in the Discourses (or Enchiridion) that if I attribute a value to something external I automatically become its slave. If I desire a raise, I become my manager's slave, if I want sex, I become partner's slave, if I desire validation then I become a slave of someone else's opinion etc. So from my understanding his advice is not to desire anything that is external and only focus on what's in my control. I think he goes even further than that and advises not to desire anything at all and only be averse to undesirable in my control. I put an "I" instead of "we" or "you" but you get the picture. So what should I do with a need to be validated by others? I think my strategy would be: 1. I must acknowledge the fact that external opinions are opinions and not facts. They could be right, they could be wrong or irrelevant. 2. External opinions must be examined by me. If an external opinion is right by my examination, then this could give me useful information on what I can do to pursue 4 cardinal values, if not, then I disregard it. 3. I should stop myself from desiring something external whenever I encounter myself doing so, be it a praise ,a woman's body, money, luxury, acceptance, being desired etc. It is wrong to desire external, because it's going to keep me wretched and miserable. 4. I CAN form an independent opinion about myself. 5. I must not blame, accuse, censure anyone who I think has formed a wrong opinion about me. It just seems to that person that her opinion is right. I should accept that someone could be wrong without judging them.

Seeking validation from others.

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i (28M) have had unsuccessful romantic relationships throughout my life so far. i believe one of the leading causes of this is my codependency. i have landed upon a great opportunity to practice resolving these issues. i met a new girl. things seem to be going great. I've seen her a couple times and she seems very into me. she very abruptly stopped texting me and even viewing my messages a day after our last date. it has only been a day of silence, but it does seem very strange as she was texting me several times a day prior to this. my mind is racing as to why this is happening. anyways, what do you all advise i do? is the stoic approach to just wait it out? any advice on this issue, or codependency as a whole would be greatly appreciated! Edit: these are some insightful responses. Thanks to everyone who took the time to help me reframe my thoughts and guide my actions in a healthier direction. Strangely, she reached back out to me saying she no longer wants to see me, as she has things she needs to work through personally. I think a lot of the advice you all provided still applies to this situation, and i feel like I'm handling it well, which is huge for me as rejection has been very tough for me in the past. One of you reached out to me via direct message and said "relationships can never be unnatural". That helped me a lot as well.

As one general idea, you could map out the actions you take that you are labelling as "codependent". Realize that the action itself likely can be done for other reasons. Be weary not to leave a label on yourself but to acknowledge it's a mode of thinking, not an identity. >she very abruptly stopped texting me and even viewing my messages a day after our last date. it has only been a day of silence, but it does seem very strange as she was texting me several times a day prior to this. my mind is racing as to why this is happening. Look at the conclusion your mind seems to be reaching. It's seems to be something like this "*if* she doesn't text me *then* something "bad" is occurring". Is this the same with your friends and loved ones? Have you ever forget to text anyone? Has life abruptly changed that you've needed to alter your activities and texts slip by? The action in question is texting back. This can be done for other reasons and in such a way where you have concern for the other person and not just your own insecurities (if that's the case). Do some analysis to notice if your care about this situation because they're not okay or if it's because you feel deprived of something. Waiting it out could be appropriate so we don't add onto another person stress. If you do feel deprived of their attention do an inquire into why this is so uncomfortable. Our desires and judgments are what leads us to our emotions, more likely than not there is a belief about reality that is the cause of the trouble, not reality itself. Grab a pen and paper or digitally write out your thoughts fully. After you're done look for the opinions you hold and circle them or isolate them in some way. Go one by one and ask yourself if you want it to be that way or if the situation can be seen in the opposite light. Another way to phrase this, write out *only* the facts of the matter, the "who, what, when, and where" without the "why" and any emotions. Then write out why you think it's happening then come up with other "whys" that could have the same outcome. Both can aid you to identify these beliefs and give you the ability to question them in your own. Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.

resolving codependency issues

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I'm 19 years old and my mom has early-onset alzheimer's disease. She was diagnosed at only 50. It's not been easy at all. I wouldn't say I'm new to stoicism, I've read Meditations, Discourses, and Letters from a Stoic. I've been interested and learning about it for a few years now, since before my mom's diagnosis. The issue is that learning about it and applying it are two very different beasts, which I'm sure you all know. It's silly, but for some reason I feel like this is a true stoic "test" for me: facing an insurmountable tragedy I have no way of helping. How do I navigate the future? I understand that this is something I have no power over; it is completely out of my control. But how do I actually *apply* that to myself? When I first started learning about stoicism, it was relatively straightforward to internalize because I wasn't facing something like this. But now that I am... I'm realizing just how difficult this philosophy really is to apply when tragedy strikes. How do I do this? How do I navigate through this? I'm struggling so much and so any bits of advice would be more than appreciated.

You might have read stoic philosophy, but you didn't embody it.You are in distress, and you expect the philosophy which you read about to help you.But you didn't put the work in.Its like reading about how to swim, and now that you're in middle of drowning in your emotional distress, you're asking your instructor how to actually swim. You wont learn to swim while drowning. You wont get prepared for a marathon, while running a marathon. The stoic approach to your distress is to understand that nothing external in this world belongs to us, or is promised to us. Your friends, family, romantic partners are ALL temporal. Nothing external to us is permanent. Any day its completely possible that you get a call with catastrophic news about someone you love. Illness, car crashes, murders, natural disasters happen every day to someone, and it CAN and WILL happen to you or someone you know sooner or later. Your lack of preparation for such events are the main reason for your current suffering.You cannot suddenly realize this once the catastrophe comes. Preparation is done when everything is fine, before the trial arrives. Imagine how many worse things could have came knocking on your door. You're not facing War, you're not facing Death, you're not losing your children or your life partner in an instant. Understand that now is the time for you to step up and start pulling more weight than you did so far. Dont be a burden, be a person others can rely on. Im sure your mother deserves you to be the best son you can be after all the years of her taking care of you. Seneca says:"I judge you unfortunate because you have never lived through misfortune. You have passed through life without an opponent--no one can ever know what you are capable of, not even you." "Difficulties strengthen the mind, as labor does the body." Good luck

A Stoic approach to dealing with a parent who has early-alzheimer's disease?

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I have.. an interesting relationship dynamic to say the least. And yes, I know you must be thinking why I'm not posting this on r/relationship_advice or what not. I will be doing that too. To me, this is a problem that i might need, or in this case, will need a lot of stoic advice to carry on and process myself. Thank you all in advance. My story is as follows. Well, the short and long of it as I have yet to fully comprehend what has happened for how long. The gist of it is that after a seriously heated debate between me and my then-girlfriend. She decided that she doesnt want to be my girlfriend anymore. But we've still kept contact since, sometimes texting almost daily. I keep going on the pretense that maybe if I show her how much I care, how hard Im trying, then maybe she'll build enough trust for me to consider getting back. That lasted for a month, or two. And while all that was going on, in the midst of me constantly trying to mend that broken relationship, she was out having fun with another person, flirting with them, all the while still demanding/expecting things from me. Sometimes she would say that she wants to get back together but she is still so hurt by the past that she cant do so. Opting instead to become uncaring towards me and actively showing me that she is willing to defend another person. Something that she has never once done for me in the past. At somepoint in that strained relationship a fight between us broke out because of how she thought i was so uncaring of her, even with her constant disregarding of my feelings. That ended in me cutting ties.. or so I though as I once again messaged her later, simply saying to want to say how much Ive loved her and how I'll be going away. This then resulted in us meeting up, while only after a day from our last, she has decided to become partners with the other person i was talking about before. We talked, and I somehow convinced myself that staying friends with her was the better choice. But witnessing her treat another person how I've always wanted to be treated just breaks my heart. I'm jealous of it, envious of how I can't have been the one. I don't know how to deal with these feelings. Or how to process myself moving forward. On one hand, I would like to stay to maybe gain a chance at rebuilding their trust and affection once more. On the other, I know that by doing so, I risk myself not ever fully recovering from this relationship and tying myself down to it. Any stoic advice is extremely helpful as I do not know what I should be doing with myself moving forward. The thought of revenge does come to mind, but I do not think such shallowness is the right way to fulfillment and me being actually happy. Nor am I able to think of anyways of revenge lol. So please, as Stoics, please give me your advice on this topic... I am in dire need of help. EDIT: I couldnt reply to every comment there is on this little post of mine. Im glad to have so many people give advice and pay mind to my problem. I thank you all for the kind words and will now continue studying the path of Stoicism so that one day I will be lucky enough to be able to apply the teachings of Stoicism to my life. And be able to give out such enlightening advices like the rest of us here. Peace and love be with you all.

You've kinda talked yourself into a hell of your own creation here No contact with the ex. She's moved on, she's keeping you around as some kinda of emotional support because she knows she has you wrapped around her finger. Eventually new guy is going to tell her to stop communicating with you and you'll be cut out anyway. May as well take some semblance of control over the situation.

I feel frustrated that I am staying friends with my ex while they already have a new lover.

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I have studying stoicism for about a year now. I have found so much benefit with so many things in life such as management of anger during arguments, better discipline in certain areas of my life, voluntary discomfort but the number one thing I struggle with is my phone addiction. I've deleted TikTok recently, I don't play any games on it, I don't like to watch random YouTube videos. I'm obsessed with learning about things. I like to learn about improving my self in all aspects of my life such as nutrition, fitness, sleep etc but I think there comes a point where it's too much. I struggle to sit still with my thoughts, whenever I'm working in my office job I have to be listening to a podcast/audiobook I cannot work in science. This doesn't feel like it's the right way to live life even if it's productive things I am researching! What are your view points on this situation and how would you handle it?

Addiction, of any kind is complicated. It isn't simply the issue of willpower like many assume. You might find two people interesting on the topic, Gabor Mate, and Jonathan Hari. I can't give you the full answer you deserve at this moment, but a helpful idea for you is the idea of Resourcing. When you pull up your phone, and doom-scroll, you are getting something besides the dopamine hit. You are self-soothing your emotional nature. This, we could say, is a less efficient way of resourcing. Improving your life in every aspect, is another addiction. It is another way you escape how you are now, except in our self-help culture, it is accepted, lauded, prided. I'm not saying that self-improvement is bad or doesn't healthily happen, I'm just saying that we are using it in a neurotic way, we've latched on to it with our desperation, it gives us something to hold on to. Generally speaking, if you are struggling to sit with yourself, and simply be, you need to find skillful ways of resourcing, of self-regulating. Sometimes just sitting in silence is not a good idea for nervous systems that are very dysregulated. Movement is very very good in these situations. Notice what *helps*. I'm going to say that again: Notice what helps! Going for intense run? Or a casually, strolling, walk without a plan? Rolling on the ground, stretching, with a foam roller? Lifting weights? Doing a yoga routine? OR intuitively stretching and feeling your body? Notice what helps. What helps bring your body back to equilibrium, ease, rest. It may not be 100%, we're just trying to go in the correct direction. Getting in touch with yourself is the primary thing here. Attuning to self, we can call it. Once you attune to self, let your natural, embodied wisdom guide you, lead you. This is a felt thing, like feeling what's pleasurable in bed. Here, you're feeling what is good, what brings you relaxation, ease, wellbeing. Sometimes you need to burn off energy, sometimes you need something gentle and soothing. The most important thing, like I said, is attunement.

Stoic advice on overcoming phone addiction?

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I (19F) have struggled with being really insecure about my face for quite a few years. It is probably a bit of "body" dysmorphia , but I also know I'm not super pretty. I'm trying to accept it but its an uphill battle. Especially when I hate 99% of the photos I am in. Its hard to find advice on the issue when most of the conversation is about the rest of your body, which you can change a lot easier. Stoicism has helped me tremendously through the last year and I want to take a stoic approach to this issue but nothing I have come across seems to apply to the issue I am facing (no pun intended lol). I have copies of Meditations, letters from Seneca, and some of Epictetus I think, so specific passages or any other advice is appreciated.

Hello, this is something I too struggle with from time to time, so perhaps what I have to say will help you. There are a few philosophical arguments I hand myself whenever I feel Ugly: * First of all, what is beauty? From what I understand beauty is not so much how looks, but rather: * How much effort one puts into self-care (people who care for themselves naturally look beautiful). A healthy diet is important in this regard. * One's ability to highlight what's good about their features, and minimize the 'bad' (although there is nothing 'bad' about most people's faces) - This is easily done through makeup * Confidence aka Know your worth. You must know that your greatest strength is not (and should not) be looks, but rather your mind and VIRTUE. We all will look ugly in the next fifty years. What lasts is one's ability to bond with others, and in women: one's ability to be great mothers, and for men their ability to be great fathers. Embody these values and a philosophical other will love you for them :) * Next I strongly urge you read "The Symposium" by Xenophon, which is about Socrates. In it when someone tells Socrates that his nose is ugly, he argues that his nose is perfect because it does what it needs to do best: facilitate breathing. Think of your features this way. * Finally: Not everybody's going to find everyone beautiful. All that really matters is that just one person find you beautiful: your significant other, which is not very difficult to achieve. Especially if they too are not a 10/10. * Case Study: Danny Devito, who without his personality would look hideous, is good-looking, confident and happily married. The bottom line is acceptance and being unafraid of rejection and to put yourself out there freely. The rest shall take care of itself! Those who will like you will like you, and those who won't won't! No biggie, right?

Insecurity and stoicism

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I am very very new to stoic but I think this is what I have been needing in my life. I notice in myself I have a huge tendency to micromanage whether it be at work, at home, etc. I find that most people at my job are either lazy, or just don't care. I see them do basic task incorrectly which puts more work for others. Or will cause issues down the road if not done correctly. So I am constantly reaching out to these people to let them know. I don't do it in a mean way. But I can tell by how often I have to say things. I come across as micromanaging. I think the worst part is they are just my coworkers so I don't really have authority to tell them what to do. And I don't tell them what to do but I point out their mistakes. And I tell myself everyday. Tomorrow you just need to shut up and focus on you. And still I catch silly mistakes done over and over. And my boss does not micromanage AT ALL. He's such a good boss too. I would love to know how he does this. Same with my wife. She will do things in ways I feel so inefficient or careless and it drives me crazy. As I'm sure I do the same with correcting the things she does. I see this a flaw in myself I'd like to work on. Any advice or articles or videos on this??

You're right to identify this as a problem. It will make your coworkers resent and dislike you, and it will not improve their work (which is almost certainly not as bad as you think it is). Instead, try this - do your own work perfectly and efficiently. Give advice *when asked*, but when you are finished with your own work offer to help others with theirs. The natural way of things is for people to ask advice from someone they admire. Be fantastic at the job while remaining humble and personable, and they will naturally ask you for assistance. Follow them around like a terrier yapping about their errors and they will despise you and discard any advice you give because you're the one who gave it. "Whenever you are about to find fault with someone, ask yourself the following question: What fault of mine most nearly resembles the one I am about to criticize?" - Meditations

How can I stop micromanaging?

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Right now in my life I need somebody that it is mentally strong and very strong in terms of spiritual and psychological mindset to give me advice. I'm still very young so getting advice from people my age is like getting advice from my self. I don't need therapy as I don't have mental issues. I have spiritual issues, I'm confused about life. I don't know how what's the most efficient way dealing with people. A lot of them make me angry and I'm not showing my best side. I need a mentor but we all know how difficult it is to find one. I may sound arrogant but I don't find many people in my daily life "stoic". I'm not a stoic when it comes to philosophy but I'm trying to get to a level that may be considered "minimal stoicism". Reading helps but you get lost in thoughts, you isolate your self in the end. Wish there were a place where there are people that are legit good people and strong, who have gone through life and have wisdom' year I know some will say go to your grandpa.

CBT builds on stoic principles, so maybe that.

Wish there more Stoic "therapist" and philosophers that offer consulting.

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I currently struggle to go by because I had to cut a woman that I love out of my life. I did explained to her while having a tea that I was going to block her not because I hate her, but because I need to distance myself from the remeberance of her. I'm looking for the time I will be fine to truly be her friend again. I'd like to use this as an opportunity to master being a stoic person, would you have some advices for me ?

Went through the same recently. Was aiming for a relationship but she backed out. How did I use stoicism to get out of this bad mood? The thing you lost was not something real. You lost a possible future. One door of millions that lies ahead of you. Dont be sad about something that wasnt there in the first place. Take a look on the good things you had. The things that gave you joy. Those were real. Will they vanish just because there is no relationship and only friendship? Most likely not. Dont expect more. How to get this mentallity into reality? Set borders. You are still a human with human emotions. There may be some triggers that trigger those hard affectionate feelings. Set borders to protect those triggers. In my case it was cuddling. Im still going to dance with her, but cuddling is now on hold until My mind isnt triggered by it. You have to look into yourself and evaluate where the triggers are. It isnt always easy but it is possible. I took two days off to go hiking. While hiking I can deep-think about me and my situation. Maybe meditation could help you too. After those two days of intensly thinking about the above I lost the bad emotions I used to have about the situation.

How do deal with a heartbreak as a stoic person ?

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Dear Stoics, I would like to ask you for advice when it comes to overthinking, especially in relationships. Every time I get a bit more romantically involved my thoughts tend to get very distracted and are usually negative, as in - I start to think of everything that could go wrong. As a result of this I start to overanalyse and the whole thing continues in a circle. I realise that my mind is too concerned with the future , instead of the present, but I just don't know how to get it back to its natural state.

This is the "emotion first" fallacy again - the idea that your emotions come from nowhere, and all you can do is respond to them afterwards. In actuality, your emotions are how your beliefs manifest in the conscious mind. You do not "overthink". At all times you think at the same level, and the nature of those thoughts are consistent with your beliefs. When it comes to relationships, you believe that relationships are the only way for you to be happy, and you believe that you will become extremely unhappy if an evolving romance does **not** turn into a relationship. The extreme ***fear*** you experience is simply your belief "it would be terrible and prevent me being happy if this does not become a relationship" manifesting in the conscious mind. It is not possible to believe that losing something would be terrible and not fear its loss. So that is what you must do - you need to begin believing that relationships don't make you happy, and that their loss doesn't make you unhappy.

Overthinking

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Me and my gf are both almost 40. We finally decided to try to have a child and IVF was the only way. It worked and we were beyond excited to have beaten the odds. Right before the end of the first trimester we found the baby had died. We are both struggling right now. I feel empty, disillusionment and depressed. I'm worried for my gf too and how she feels. Does anybody have any stoic advice for loss of such kind?

It's out of your control. Nor you or her have anything to do with the outcome. Losses in the first trimester are actually very common, don't lose hope and do it again. This doesn't mean there is anything wrong with either of you. Take some time, recover, and do it again. If she wasn't taking any prenatal supplements have her start them the sooner before pregnancy the better.

Any advice in dealing with loss

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I'm still learning so forgive me for this angsty post. I can't seem to ease my anxiety about finding the right people to spend my time with. I read Seneca's On The Shortness of Life a while ago and toward the end in his letter to his friend on Tranquility he spoke about spending time with people that add value (I can't remember the exact quote) and so I've come to realize I don't have that. I have friends, but none that share my most precious interests and no matter how much I search for those friends, they are not here (locally). I'm anxious about it. I didn't have the best upbringing, my mom had a few mental illnesses that prevented her from letting me socialize. I did not have friends until my 20's. She forbade me from seeing my Dad which was solidified legally in a nasty court battle so he could not help. I didn't actually learn how to be social until my 20's. I got married young (somehow) and now that I'm settling down at 32 and life seems to have caught up to me, I've been in a sheer panic that I'll never have those friends and that it's too late. Therapy does not help as a lot of therapists are not deep thinkers and do not understand the kind of advice I'm seeking. I'm not sure how to deal with this apart from continuing to try to make friends as I am extroverted and very social now with years of intentional practice. In addition, I'm still bitter toward my parents for my upbringing, though my mother has passed 5 years now. My Dad and I have reconnected, but I do not live in the same state as my family. I envy those that have a close group of friends that they can always hang out with. I do not have that and my heart hurts. Lastly, if you know of any stoic therapists taking clients virtually, I am all ears. I'm seeking advice if it wasn't clear. Thank you if you've read this far.

If you seek friends only that share your interest; you will need to get used to being alone. Everyone is different and even those that share an interest that you do doesn't mean they would be good friends. The key is to keep company only with those who uplift you and whose presence calls forth your best. Focus more on the present; anxiety often is a reaction to anticipation of things to come; give yourself a gift...the present moment.

Advice for an Anxious Person

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I want to take back my cheating partner, I percieved their actions as out of weakness and insecurity, I did not feel hurt by them cheating (using tinder) but I did feel hurt when I saw my partner cry for me in pain and I want to take them back if they show change and progress towards becoming a better person without my interference. Any advice would be appreciated as I am a beginner to the stoic practise still. Edit: I believe everyone can change hence why I turned to stoicism in the first place to improve my self. Also I do not intend to be in a monogamous relationship with this partner until they have shown enough change and if I deem it unsatisfactory I will move on. I have also started to date again. Edit 2: I have decided to not take them back and asked for distance. Thank you all.

I'm pretty sure the stoic thing to do is to move on without carrying a grudge. Learn from the lesson and let your ex know this is for their own good and for them to learn from it as well. They showed they weren't trust worthy and by taking them back after they came crying to you probably just means they're going to see you as being weak and easily manipulated. Also, did they freely admit to you about the cheating because they felt so awful they had to come clean and confess or did you catch them and now they're suddenly remorseful? Probably a key detail.

Advice on cheating partner

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I'm not very good at my job. I frequently need to ask people for help even though I should just know this stuff by now. I'm a very slow learner, and have poor memory. I forget things easily and have to be reminded frequently. I can't concentrate for more than about 15 seconds without having intrusive thoughts. I'm acceptable but not very good in school. I have to study for hours a day to get B grades. I'm basically just barely below average student. I don't really socialize with anyone because I don't posses great people skills. I spend most of my time alone. I'm not very driven or motivated, I just can't find the will. I've tried to improve myself but I run out of fuel pretty quick. I basically just can't do anything very well. I hate the way I feel, and if I can't actually improve at anything maybe I can just find a way to feel better about this. It's very depressing, I'm always stressed and I don't have anyone to talk to. Is there any stoic advice here that might help me reframe my situation to at least not make me feel so bad all the time?

>I forget things easily and have to be reminded frequently. I can't concentrate for more than about 15 seconds without having intrusive thoughts. Does this sound familiar? * Frequently overlooks details or making careless mistakes * Often has difficulty maintaining focus on one task or play activity * Often appears not to be listening when spoken to, including when there is no obvious distraction * Frequently does not finish following instructions, failing to complete tasks * Often struggles to organise tasks and activities, to meet deadlines, and to keep belongings in order * Is frequently reluctant to engage in tasks which require sustained attention * Frequently loses items, including those required for tasks * Is frequently easily distracted by irrelevant things, including thoughts in adults and teenagers * Often forgets daily activities, or is forgetful while completing them

I feel inadequate at everything. Is there anyway stoicism can help me here?

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As a 20 year old biracial (b&w) man I can't seem to win. It's cliche but it's true when I say I've always been too white for the blacks and too black for the whites. It doesn't help I have aspergers making it hard to relate to others my age, as well as being a deep, intellectual thinker in a generation that idolizes stupidity, ignorance, and monetary meaningless items/relationships. I've recently been interested in listening and learning from Malcolm X and other influential figures in history in that space and it seems society has just fallen so far short of what they had hoped for us. Everytime I meet other blacks I'm told imma lame ass nigga cuz I like to read educational books and don't like to party or 'get bitches'. If I question why we have to retaliate on each other in the ghettos instead of helping each other out I'm told Im not from the hood so I wouldn't understand like I should be ashamed I was raised in nice areas. The crazy part is my father is from Compton and I've seen the hood firsthand we visit our shrinking family (due to violence) over there every other year and it's why I advocate so strongly against black on black crime. I get told I'm weird or a goofy because I like to listen to rap but also switch it up to stuff like Foo Fighters or Zillakami. It's so demoralizing to be shunned for everything I do. The area I live in is predominantly elderly conservative white people with trump flags and confederate flagged trucks, always shooting dirty looks. The (for lack of better words) 'nice/welcoming' white people that are my age to hang out with have this strange obsession with 'acting black' which I hate saying but it's the only way to describe them. They say nigga louder, prouder, and more often than even my black family members in Compton. I can't associate with them because no matter if I get mad and argue or politely ask them to stop it's always 'it's just a word' or 'X rapper says it why can't I?' They put the 'ghetto' accents on around me but all of the ones doing that talk really proper around their parents when they come around so it's not even a genuine type of accent. It's like they want to appear uneducated to me to be cool. And now with these wars and political issues going on in the world I feel my generation is the only one that could fix things before they get out of hand yet nobody cares at all. They'd rather stay blissfully ignorant and discuss Kim Kardashians 5th rebound from Kanye or make fun of gay/trans people or what their favorite celebrity ate for breakfast or did to their hair. The gym has definitely kept me sane but it's not enough to just push the pain into the weights anymore I need mental exercise now. Apologies for the rant, I just have no one to open to about these things and I'm just ready to give up. Life is so simple yet people make it difficult for no reason. I just need a stoics advice and perspective, please don't be afraid to recommend or link resources to learn the ways of stoicism. I've heard of many great stoics but don't know where to get started when it comes to finding their work.

>I feel my generation is the only one that could fix things before they get out of hand yet nobody cares at all. No. This is a lie you tell yourself. >How does a stoic man face opposition from his own people, as well as the community he lives in? A significant person in my life has a white mother and a black father. He has forged his way through poverty and looked to all the avenues to better himself. It took him 15 years, but he now has PhD in chemistry. >Everytime I meet other blacks I'm told imma lame ass nigga cuz I like to read educational books and don't like to party or 'get bitches'. This is a lie this particular small group of people you've met believes about themselves and are throwing it your way. Why would you believe it about yourself? You've got your head stuck so far in the sand, you're hiding from your own ego. Pull your head out, face your ego, throw away your ego, start reading Epictetus, and hang out with people you want to hang out with.

How does a stoic man face opposition from his own people, as well as the community he lives in? *New to Stoicism as well

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Sometimes with my significant other, for whatever reason, maybe hyperactivity, high energy levels, I find I talk too much and jump from topics of conversation quickly and repetitively and speak about what I'm thinking of too much, no the point it actually can burn her out and annoy her (after a time, she isn't impatient whatsoever) and in afterthought I dislike this behaviour and dwell on how I wish I could keep my casual thoughts to myself without speaking them too much (I have no problem keeping deep thoughts or problems to myself luckily) Any stoic advice on this, does silence and relaxed behaviour come from inner peace or a well ordered mind ? Anyone else have this problem or dislike this about themselves ?

Maybe you can use this quote as a reminder: ​ >"Nature has given man one tongue, but two ears, that we may hear twice as much as we speak." Epictetus, Fragments 6 Any other Stoic mantra would do the same. Just something you can recall before or while having a conversation that helps you to slow down. ​ Besides that, you can try to change perspectives and think about how your behavior looks like for your conversation partner. Make it a routine so your insights can sink in deeply. You can also do a little role-play. Just change the seats and let the other person talk without taking a breath. This can help to make it more realistic. Hope that helps a little.

Any stoic quotes/advice on not talking too much

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Hi, everyone. The reason of this post is that I want some stoic input on how to overcome my negative beliefs. Constantly, I feel that I am not good enough to achieve what I want. I have developed a feeling of unworthiness that is dragging me down in numerous areas of my life. To be more specific, there is a recurring feeling of not being a good enough man, worker, and student in my everyday life. I tend to overthink and doubt my abilities. In my job, I frequently feel that I lack the knowledge and skills to be a good attorney. Sometimes I even wake up at night because I am worried that I did something wrong at work. In my university, I constantly doubt my capacity of participating and giving commentaries in class. Every time I try to do it, I become really anxious and afraid of what others will think of me. In my personal life, I think I am too weak to be a decent man. Even though I do it from time to time, talking to girls I find attractive gives me a really hard time. And when I do not do it, I feel that I lack a spine. Moreover, recently a friend and I got physically assaulted outside a bar. We did not fight back, because we did not want our female friends to get hurt. We made it out, but that experience makes me feel emasculated and impotent. To be honest, I am exhausted of feeling this way. I am willing to change and overcome these negative thoughts. My main enemy should not be my own mind. But it is right now. Please, could you give me some advice on how to address these thoughts and feelings?

I overcame decades of learned helplessness, anxiety, social anxiety, and depression by taking a good, deep look at the beliefs I had about how the world works and my relationships within it. Some of my worries floated away like puffs of smoke, others took significant time to work out. What I learned was that all my troubles were products of problematic thought patterns. In short, my thought patterns produced certain beliefs and perceptions that contributed to my feeling of distress and even despair. The good news is, these are all learned behaviors which means they can be unlearned. I would encourage you to start by reading Epictetus' Discourses. You can find a copy online to read right now as well as look around for a translation or audio book version that works best for you. It's a series of lessons, told in dialog form, between a philosopher and his students. The students are coached to recognize their thought patterns, why they produce distress, and how to correct them. The examples are plentiful which means you get to see the same approach done in a lot of different scenarios. Eventually you learn to generalize this approach with regard to your own circumstances. It's not a chapter book where you need to keep up or lose the plot. It's great for people short on time or with attention span challenges as well, in my opinion. While you read this, I would encourage you to learn new habits to replace your old ones. This thread is a great introduction to the kinds of habits you can start looking for: [Big Discussion: What are the pros and cons of different Stoic exercises? (And how to do them.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/wau509/big_discussion_what_are_the_pros_and_cons_of/) The book How To Think Like a Roman Emperor is a deeper look into this, as introduced against the backdrop of Marcus Aurelius' life (often referred to as the Philosopher King, and for good reason).

How to stop feeling that I am not enough?

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Hey everyone! I've been into Stoicism for a while now and enjoy practicing it because it's helping me better handle difficult life situations. I wanted to write this because I've had a conflict come up recently and wanted to hear whatever advice you have on how a Stoic would have handled this. When I was in college a couple of years ago, I came across a political activist group and became a member. There was another group on the opposite end of the political spectrum that would have rallies, protests, and other activities on campus. I disrupted one of their meetings one time because I was an antagonistic little shit and started taking pictures of the people there when they were kicking me out (bad choice on my part). There are two other things I did to them that I feel bad about. First, the leader of our group was an anti Semite who posted anti Semitic crap online and wasn't removed until the other group called us out for letting him do that. I messed up for not leaving as soon as I found out about his anti Semitism because I was too afraid at the time to call him out for it. When I left the activist group and joined a preacher group, I manipulated the other preachers into disrupting a rally the other group was having on campus. Again, bad choice on my part. I've since left the preacher group since it was a cult and cut ties with the anti Semite for refusing to apologize for the crap he posted online. I also reached out recently to the people I wronged in the activist group and apologized for the above choices I made. I typed up a message and copied and pasted it to the people in the group with the names changed, but I understand why that looks bad in hindsight. Some of the people responded saying that they would accept my apology if I sent them money over Cashapp. One of them said that they would like a gift for their graduation coming up and that I'm lucky they didn't send me their bill from their therapist since they felt traumatized when we disrupted their rally on campus. I understand why they're angry because of the shitty choices I made in college, but something about sending them money seemed off to me. It seemed like they were playing on my guilt to get money out of me and that even if I did send them money, it still wouldn't change how they felt. I can put myself in their shoes and imagine times when I felt angry and traumatized by someone who wronged me and how I would respond if they reached out to me years later and apologized for the crap they put me through. I would still feel angry about what they did, but I don't think that would make anyone better off and would rather just forgive them and move on from that. Again, I know that a copy-and-paste apology looks bad, but I still decided to save that money to give to a charity or for my therapy. I told them that and how I understood why they wouldn't want to forgive me. They said that they wouldn't forgive me and hoped that I wouldn't find peace and that my mistakes would continue to haunt me for the rest of my life. Did I make the right decision and how would a Stoic have approached this?

We make mistakes, we learn from them and we do better next time. It sounds like you made a lot, but have you taken the time to really understand why and how you made those mistakes? Has your attitude changed, it seems like you were very sure of yourself when you were doing these things, are you still confident of being right or do you possess a level of self-doubt about your actions now? Do you try to mind your own business now, and let other people make their mistakes or are you still judging them? Do you have compassion for them now? It is up to you you to judge whether you have progressed as a human being, and whether your current actions live up to the values you now hold or want to.

Was I wrong in this situation? If I was, then what would a Stoic do?

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I need advice on my problem with talking too much. Ive noticed that whenever I start with smalltalk with someone, I always overload them with information and details they never asked for. It seems as if whenever I talk to anyone including friends and family, I just vomit up all this information and always explaining myself and its like people feel trapped when talking to me. Haha. Idk. Id like to get some feedback from a stoics perspective.

I used to do this too. It was automatic, impulsive, and I would blurt out tons of unnecessary stuff before I even realized it. Trying to change my habits didn't work because, well, this was automatic, lol! I found progress in analyzing my beliefs related to social situations. I found certain beliefs I held that drove this behavior and when I corrected these beliefs, the behaviors were modified automatically.

Talking Too Much

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I have had suicidal thoughts, anxiety attacks and feeling like absolute trash of a human being, because of what I'm currently facing in my life. Practicing some Stoicism (tbh I'm not sure if I'm doing it right) from what little I have read has helped. Though I'm constantly being overwhelmed by emotion despite trying to rationalize And now I seek some advice on how I should approach my current situation in a Stoic manner. My main issue stems from my unwillingness to get a job as soon as I can. I apologize if what I've written below doesn't make sense, my mind is messy and in a blur right now. Here's a **background** on my current situation in chronological order (this would be a long read): 0. Had a stressful time with final exams in university because of my procrastination habits. Had a lot of close calls, where I would have potentially had to repeat the year or get an unsatisfactory degree classification, at which point I had considered suicide as an option. 1 . Graduated from university with an analytics degree in the last year, fortunately I got a decent grade. But I didn't know what to do (with life and career), decided to take a break playing video games before joining the rat race. 2 . Wanted to learn programming (after 3 months of gaming) to get an edge in the job field that I'm vaguely interested in. Had constantly been procrastinating with it for years because it was tough. Decided to work through it since I would have to work soon 3 . After working through it for 2 months and completed a tough project, I realized I am deeply passionate about programming. It was something I have never felt before. I decided I wanted to develop a career in software engineering and wanted to deepen my knowledge in computer science. 4 . At this point it had been 5 months since graduation. My family were concerned that a huge gap in my resume since graduation would increase my difficulty in getting a job. I gave them a deadline. I broke that deadline.There were multiple reasons, ***(i)*** I felt that I wasn't ready for a job yet (I wanted to get an analyst job since it would be related to my degree. I wanted to refresh concepts related to that, and to learn more on programming so that I could apply it on the job if needed instead of being stuck since I was a beginner), ***(ii)*** I had trouble with sleep from lower backaches that I wanted to fix with physiotherapy (because I couldn't function well otherwise) and ***(iii)*** probably because I was afraid and lazy. 5 . A month later, my mother had late stage cancer. 6-8 months later, currently, shes fine but the process was rough to say the least. I'm sure it affected me and my decisions but when I use this as a reason for being jobless, it feels wrong and an excuse for my shortcomings. 6 . Throughout the period since point 5, I have had tons of arguments and pressure grow in intensity with my family as time went by to get a job. I gave in the first time and started looking for jobs, but I bombed my first interview screening when I couldn't answer a question about my university coursework. I realized I had to do more refreshing. There's no way to sugarcoat it but I lied to my family that I was looking for a job, when all I did was to continue learning on compsci and little progress on refreshing topics of statistics and machine learning which would be essential for an analyst job. 7 . There were a couple of friends and relatives that my family knew, who didn't want to work for various reasons, and they were worried I was going to be like them. At some point I doubted myself, and wondered if I was just making up an excuse of wanting to better prepare for the job/lacking confidence in being competent enough for a job. My lie got exposed twice, and the second time evolved into a major argument and a final deadline, which I intend to keep to this time. As a result of these events, my relationship with my family, especially my older sister, has been at an all time low. ***END OF BACKGROUND*** ​ My sister has a boyfriend a year or two ago and since then, my family and I have felt that she places a priority over her boyfriend (from the way she handled several problems that occurred, unrelated to my current job situation) over my parents and I. It hurts that she would place someone she knew for a year or two with greater importance than us. And at some point my sister mentioned that the boyfriend was worried if they would have to care for me in the future since I seemed to be unwilling to get a job. And for times where we had arguments and I wasn't lying that I was getting a job, my sister would throw her temper at me and would look at me like I'm scum. **My emotions (need advice on how to approach with dealing with them):** 1 . I hate my sister and my family for constantly stressing me when I'm already stressing about the consequences of having a huge resume gap on top of the stress from the problems I face in learning difficult compsci topics, from being afraid of the judgement I get from friends and relatives for having a huge gap in unemployment. I hate how they push their stresses on to me (regarding my unemployment, and my sister worrying about the finances of potentially having to care for me when her boyfriend is a big spender) And I hate myself for feeling this way and that sometimes it feels good to be hateful. I feel like a bad person for feeling this way. 2. The random and intense pangs of anxiety. I have now come to associate arguments with my sister and whenever I see her, I feel anxiety and because of our experiences so far, we aren't getting as well as before and I feel sad. I feel that same anxiety whenever my parents remind me that I'm making a wrong decision in being unemployed, because I know that they are right. But I don't feel comfortable/ready as of yet to get a job. 3. The feeling of being not adequate/competent for anything. Over time I've developed/worsen my inferior complex. I feel like there is something wrong with me for causing my family all these problems and for feeling incompetent when others get jobs right after/before graduation. 4. There are times when after arguments or being stressed by my family, I would have thoughts of committing suicide to end the pain and to spite my family. I won't do it, because I'm a coward and I can't bear to think about how my family would feel if I did it. I'm terribly afraid of being alive paralyzed and having my family care for me after the deed. There are times where it's so tempting though. **END** For now, I have set a deadline with my family for the latest I would start my job seeking and I intend to keep to it. I've been learning a lot and my confidence has fortunately been boosted as a result. Though, it gets beaten down when my family, says things such as: you should get a job soon or everyone won't like you. I don't know why, but it hurts when they say that to me or when my sister looks me like I'm scum. Practicing parts of Stoicism, from the few books I have read on it, has helped, though I still struggle greatly with it and would appreciate any advice given. I feel embarrassed for posting something this personal, but I'm feeling extremely lost.

You begin your background section by saying that the possibility of failing a year or getting a poor mark in your degree caused you to consider suicide. I concur with Ben - you absolutely need therapy. I don't know what has happened in your life to make you think something as minor as failing a year is worth ending your life, but I think you need more help than a Reddit sub can give you.

I'm constantly at my breaking point, how should I approach this with Stoicism?

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I am currently struggling to be more stoic or being stoic in general. I have been in the military for 8 years now and learned of stoicism like 3 months ago. It is my goal to be stoic as it is a way of life that is...achievable and it definitely raises the quality of life. Now here is my struggle, I am waiting for my transfer to a new unit. Been through selection for said unit, what a relief, I passed. Gave me a good feeling of my achievement. The problem is that I am now stuck in my current company that just makes me unhappy, subordinates that don't simply don't care and superiors that don't listen and pay attention. I want to scream of anger. But I manage to calm myself down with sports and meditation. At least I try. Is here someone who can give me advice on how not to loose my s***?

I have been there (in the military); not leaving a unit yet and everyday seems like a grind. 100% get it. I think stoic thought can assist you with that. I would say be tolerant with others and be strict with yourself. Lead by example even when all others are not. I believe it was Marcus A that stated I do what is mine to do, the rest does not disturb me. Hold your actions accountable not the actions of others. Soon you will be gone from there and maybe your actions will positively influence one person and set them on a better path.

Becoming a stoic in the military

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24 M. Was physically assaulted by club staff (14 v/s 3 of us) 2 years ago. That has given me a great deal of PTSD. I know the usual advice is to avoid physical fights. But if you're having a confrontation with someone and they punch you first, what to do then? What if someone teases my sister or gf? What if they are being unnecessarily physically aggressive? In such cases do I get away and call the authorities or fight?? It's somewhat of a pride thing too. Running way from such situations feels weak and hurts my pride. Thinking about all this has given me great social anxiety. And yes, I am not afraid of getting beaten up. I don't feel anxious in confrontations with known people. It's only with strangers because there's fear of death. TLDR: Was physically assaulted a few years ago. Felt powerless and weak. Got PTSD. Now often get anxious in confrontational social interactions.

Maybe it's just the area but in my entire life I've never been in a fight outside of my job (LEO). Someone teasing your GF is not a reason to start a physical altercation that could lead to death. First off you need to curb your ego, that'll probably keep you out of 90% of fights. Second there's nothing wrong with self defense, but honestly the stoic approach is don't have confrontations with people. It takes two to tango.

Stoic advice on street fights

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Hello all, Daniel here, 20M. I've been into stoicism for the past 2 years, and it's really been a game changer for me. It wasn't hard to get into, I'm naturally more of a stoic guy. I'm extremely passionate about football/soccer, and it's one of the few external events that can affect my mood. I put in over 20 hours a week of total training trying to become a professional footballer. More than anybody I know. I try to grab that extra 1% of improvement at every moment. But I'm not talented, and I struggle to start games or get accepted at better teams. It's very frustrating, seeing all this hard work and sacrifice not leading to any results, and I'm not sure what to do about it. The stoic ideas I've came up with to help me out so far are : - internalizing goals. ( Not to be the best player on the pitch, but, to be the best Daniel I can become ) - realizing that this is a part of an athletes life. Like the bees duty that Marcus Aurelius talks about. ( rejection, frustration) Other than that, I do not really know what to do. All stoic, and practical advice would be very much appreciated.

The problem is the way you represent the situation not the situation itself. As in the problem is that you're attached to football (and therefore your worth as a footballer) and want to determine the outcome of your hard-work when you have no control over that. There are temporary remedies for your outlook but it will keep being a thorn in your side unless you find value where it's actually is and not in things that are not 'up-to-you'

Dealing with Frustration as an Athlete

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So basically in a nutshell,A guy put his hands on my friend,kinda strangled him to instill [fear.](https://fear.Me)I could have punched him or chocked him or done harm to him easily but instead i grabbed i grabbed the guy from behind and pulled him away..But I regret not hitting him cause this friend has always had my back since day 1 in school when bullies picked on me,he was the one that kinda protected me\[my friend is from the streets and his father and brother are known\]so when the oppurtunity came for me to have his back,i feel i failed in doing that and i think my friend expected me,his bff to have his back and is dissapointed that i didnt maybe?. Im a non confrontational person who avoids conflict out of fear,ptsd from bullying etc but this guy putting his hands on my friend triggered a flight or fight thing where i easily pulled him away in rage,this dude was big but it was sudden i guess but i know i could have knocked him out..keep in mind these people are all drug addicts.. But behind me was another old dude with a wooden chair in his hand ready,so i wonder had i done something would he have hit me in the head from behind.Not that he would have but still you never know..We werent outnumbered though,my friend got his street friends and there were like 10 of us and 4 of them so were safe but still i wish i defended my friend,ALthough i was by his side all the way through..I just need some stoic advice as i havent slept in 2 days its keeping me up..Should i tell my friend and apologize or ask if he feels that way. Long story is some petrol shed guy started a fight with my friends brother\[Their entire family is street tough and it was in their area,pretty much their "hood"and they have friends who are about that life,although my friend is trying to get out of it\]So basically the whole family went to fight and Unfortunately since i was there at the time i also went cause hes my friend and i felt safe since they pretty much ran the area where even police knows [them.So](https://them.So) like the shed guys got their ass beaten and im the only one who didnt hit them to defend my friend as i was afraid for sure despite being safe.. its confusing but my heart is eating me up idk i need therapy [maybe.I](https://maybe.Im) think its best to tell my mom.idk any stoid advice would be helpful please,Im sorry if this comes off as disrespectful I mean no disrespect and apologize if story is confusing.I hope this post is qualified to seek stoic advice

>idk I need therapy It could help you wrap your mind around your very challenging environment. It doesn't mean that you are a basket case or anything like that. ​ >I think its best to tell my mom That's usually not a bad idea if she is a reliable parent. You are being assaulted on the street by drug addicts. Its not something you should cope with by yourself as a young person if you don't have to. ​ >Should i tell my friend and apologize or ask if he feels that way? I would say: "Bro, I haven't stopped thinking about this for 2 days. How do you feel about it?" If your friend expresses disappointment in your behavior; just say "you've given me a lot to think about. Let me reflect on that for a sec... talk later". Nobody should be your puppet master. First figure out if you've truly done something wrong. ​ >I hope this post is qualified to seek stoic advice. This subreddit is mainly to discuss Stoic Philosophy, a Hellenic school of philosophy that's over 2000 years old. But "seeking Stoic advice" usually means how to apply the philosophy to your problem. I worry that you don't even know the basics, if you do you didn't make it appear so in your post. So I'll do my best. # On Loyalty for friends >But I regret not hitting him cause this friend has always had my back since day 1 in school Loyalty can be a form of virtue, but one that must be balanced against other virtues, such as wisdom and justice. Loyalty should not override one's ability to act with integrity and reason. A Stoic would also emphasize that loyalty to others should stem from a sense of compassion and kindness, rather than a sense of obligation or fear. They might advise cultivating inner strength and wisdom so that one is able to act with loyalty and integrity in difficult situations, rather than blindly following emotions or outside pressures. # On feeling guilty for not using more violence >But I regret not hitting him Don't though. Violence is never the way. Maybe an exception can be made for self-defence. But don't be so hard on yourself for not wanting to be violent. It is the better path not to be. It forms a more stable society and allows people to interact with one another with trust, if you have a society with less violence. # On feeling guilty According to Stoic philosophy, guilt is a negative emotion that arises from the belief that one has acted in a manner that is inconsistent with their personal values or with the universal moral principles that guide virtuous behavior. The Stoics believed that our negative emotions, including guilt, are often **caused by the way we interpret and judge events, rather than by the events themselves**. Therefore, Stoics would advise individuals to focus on their own behavior and thoughts, and to examine their actions and motivations in order to determine whether their behavior was consistent with their values. If they determine that their behavior was inconsistent with their values, they would then **focus on correcting their behavior in the future, rather than dwelling on guilt.** I'll also say that I think if you feel guilty for not using more violence, then you should not feel guilty at all. Perhaps you feel guilty that you were so afraid. Perhaps that is not in line with the person you wish to be? Perhaps this has more to do with courage than with violence? What could courage have looked like in that moment? # What is the goal in life? The goal in life according to Stoic philosophy is to live in accordance with nature and to attain eudaimonia, or happiness and fulfillment. To achieve this goal, Stoics believe that individuals must cultivate wisdom and virtue, and that they must strive to align their thoughts, judgements, and actions with the natural order of the universe. In your case, this means that when you go out with a friend, sometimes it happens that a drug addict will lay hands on you. Next time, also remember how you wish to act in that situation; calm, rationally, smart, courageous, kind.

feeling regret for not physically backing up my friend ..Need some honest advice.[STREET FIGHT,INTENSE READ]

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Hi, everyone. I write this post because I have been having a really hard time dealing with personal insecurities. A couple of years ago, I ended a complicated relationship. The breakup was quite hard. In our last conversation, she told me how sexually unsatisfied I made her during the last year of our relationship. Most of the conversation centered on me being boring, predictable, and even too quick in the bedroom. To be honest, I knew we were having problems in the sexual part of our relationship, but I ignored she thought all those things of me. It truly hurt me. At the time, I did not know how to confront my emotions and thoughts. Eventually, I avoided other people and developed acne breakouts. Now, most of my acne is gone. My personal higiene is better, and I exercise regularly. Moreover, I reconnected with old friends and made some new ones. However, I have not been able to have another romantic or sexual relationship with someone since the breakup. For a while, I was alright with it. Being alone helped me to focus on my career and university. But I am willing to have a new emotional connection now. The problem is that I feel insecure around girls when it comes to sex. Even when a girl gives a somewhat intense glance I get nervous. Anxiety overwhelms me, and a feeling of unworthiness appears. Honestly, I feel like I do not have what it takes to have a healthy relationship with someone else. I am exhausted of feeling this way. I understand that these emotions and ideas are only in my mind. But even so, I have not been able to deal with them yet. Simply, I want to build a real emotional connection with someone else and share my sexuality with that person. I am willing to do whatever it takes. Please, I need help to stop feeling so sexually insecure. I do not want these feelings of unworthiness and sadness to determine my life. It is exhausting. In summary, I could really use some of your knowledge and experience from a stoic perspective to handle this. I will truly appreciate an apply any advice that you give me. Thank you in advance

I understand that was hurtful what she said. It would probably hurt me too. Hopefully, I can get through to you when I say that she probably said all those things to hurt you in a moment of anger. Secondly, from a stoic perspective "worthiness" doesn't come from sexual performance, it comes from your ability to live up to your standards, not someone else's. Sexual performance doesn't give or take away your value, and it will never pay off to attach someone else's validation to your personal value. Hopefully that helps Edit: Clearfied something

Struggling with sexual insecurities

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I just graduated college last year and I got a job in the semiconductor industry but I got laid off a couple months into the job. it was an awesome job and I learned a lot and I'm grateful for the experience, but I do understand that is something I can't control so I've chosen to move on and I got a new job. it doesn't pay as much. actually it pays like $7 less (which money isnt an issue really as long as I can pay my bills) but the hours are long and I just stand there in a lab for 10 hours a day. I've been trying to work on just making the best out of the situation, which I've been pretty good at generally in my life, but what's tough about this job and being a stoic is trying to accept the job that I have get what I need out of it and find a new one in the future. it's really hard staying in it now and I really don't want to stay in it much longer either and I've only been here for a month. any advice on how I should mentally approach this job everyday?

Here is the Gregory Hayes translation if you wanted it or for those who were interested. Thank you for this direction I will meditate on it this week. At dawn, when you have trouble getting out of bed, tell yourself: "I have to go to work--as a human being. What do I have to complain of, if I'm going to do what I was born for--the things I was brought into the world to do? Or is this what I was created for? To huddle under the blankets and stay warm? --But it's nicer here.... So you were born to feel "nice"? Instead of doing things and experiencing them? Don't you see the plants, the birds, the ants and spiders and bees going about their individual tasks, putting the world in order, as best they can? And you're not willing to do your job as a human being? Why aren't you running to do what your nature demands? --But we have to sleep sometime.... Agreed. But nature set a limit on that--as it did on eating and drinking. And you're over the limit. You've had more than enough of that. But not of working. There you're still below your quota. You don't love yourself enough. Or you'd love your nature too, and what it demands of you. People who love what they do wear themselves down doing it, they even forget to wash or eat. Do you have less respect for your own nature than the engraver does for engraving, the dancer for the dance, the miser for money or the social climber for status? When they're really possessed by what they do, they'd rather stop eating and sleeping than give up practicing their arts.

Laid off

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Hi guys, I'm 24 living in the UK and have been in a job for 6 years which isn't that well paid but the company is really good and the people I work with are nice. I would say I've been in a comfort zone for ages now so from last year I have been looking for a new job, starting the gym going 6 times a week, feeling a lot better in myself and have been upskilling myself by doing courses outside of work ect. However recently I've had a knee operation and I feel like I'm back to square one. The main reason for this post is there's so many different paths I could go down, how do I know I'm taking the right one to find my destiny/full potential? 1. Part of me thinks I could go to Uni (I didn't go to begin with because I didn't know what I wanted to do and I still don't so I feel like it could be a waste of money) 2. Keep trying to find a new job- one that could solidify me into my 30s, so that I can afford to move out and eventually have a family. 3. Go travelling (people say you learn a lot and I agree but I don't know how this will help me find a job in the long term) All I want in life is to find peace, retire my parents, become the best version of myself but I genuinely don't know what I want to do and feel a bit lost. It's such a shame because I'm so flexible right now I would go anywhere in the world and start a job if it meant a great opportunity. Any advice would be great, it's annoying because I know I'll smash it once I get a good mentor or find the right company to move up in the world. I try to remain as stoic as possible as I think it's a real test for yourself but recently I feel lost.

Just my opinion but if you are in a job where the company is good and the people are nice you should consider whether you really want to leave even if the pay isn't that great. IMO money isn't everything, i have had jobs where i was better off financially but i felt my life was worse. I don't think there is a ''destiny'' your life is meant to lived in the here and now, I forgot which one of his letters it was but Seneca went on about how even some men in their old age were still desiring and planning on how to become senators or knights. If you are content with the comfort zone you are in now, i don't really see what the problem is, i think it's better to be happy with what we have now not what we think we should have in the future.

How do I find my destiny?

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I just got rejected for a job. It felt pretty bad as I thought I had nailed both the interview and the practical task set after the interview. But I remind myself of Epictetus: "The chief task in life is simply this: to identify and separate matters so that I can say clearly to myself which are externals not under my control, and which have to do with the choices I actually control. Where then do I look for good and evil? Not to uncontrollable externals, but within myself to the choices that are my own" -- Epictetus, Discourses, 2.5.4\-5 Is there any stoic advice/quotes that would help heal how I feel right now?

> It felt pretty bad as I thought I had nailed both the interview and the practical task set after the interview Well, who's to say you didn't? You may have done a damn fine job of it, and if so you should be proud of that! Believe it or not there's a line in a Star Trek episode that I think covers this and feels Stoic enough for me: > It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Job Rejection

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My wife lied a lot when we both met, she would make up stories, gave me a different age, say things to impress me or sound more mature. I found out a year in, then spent another two years finding out more and more, she never came clean and I would always find out the hard way. The problem is, all these stories and lies were in the past, before we met, there was a few things whilst we was together but they was nothing. But they stress me out to no end worrying if there is more or if I'm being an idiot. It's been 10 years, no more lies cropped up since the last one. She insists that was everything, but it all still bothers me. I'm paranoid and anxious, I worry about what else could be hidden or if there is more. Its not worth breaking up over as our lives are great together, so I need to handle these intrusive thoughts, how could stoicism help me forgive and move forward when these irrational fears appear? (Also please no relationship advice, I just want to understand how a stoic person gets over betrayal and paranoia)

"It's been 10 years....." Get over it, or get help, because at this point if you can't resolve these issues within yourself then you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting her too.

How do I get over the past?

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Hi I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this but anyways. I've always been quite stoic and logical thinker and now I've just crumbled. I have worked hard to get into a masters program through years of study and hard work and now that I'm here I've just crumbled. I'm going through what I presume is depressive episodes unable to get out of bed and constantly suffering from what I also believe is mental burnout. As I've said I worked so hard to be here and now with all this I don't know if I can stick at it as I'm losing my passion for the career due to how I'm feeling. I dunno what to do I feel so lost if life and feel like I'll never amount to anything in life. Im just so frustrated with myself cause I've worked so hard to be here and now my mind has let me down, just feeling sorry for myself more than anything but I'm so disappointed as I think I'll have to defer for the year due to my mental health problems. Has anyone got any advice for a 24/M

If your university enrollment has an attached health insurance plan, use it to get a psychological evaluation. You are paying for it, to not utilize that type of benefit is unwise, unjust (to yourself) and not courageous. It would be an immoderate waste of your efforts up to now to not find out what a councilor or psychiatrist has to say. I have two good friends who failed to complete their degrees due to episodes of depression. They have a difficult time escaping regret and ruminating about what could have been. At a root level, your judgments about your situation or plan are causing you cognitive dissonance. Resolution of the conflicts in your assents is the ultimate solution, but that is unhelpful if you are alone and paralyzed by indecision. Get some counseling and/or try pharmaceutical intervention. You can also try asking your university for a differed enrollment or medical leave so that you can return to your studies at a later time. The first step is asking about the availability of counseling at your institution. Use the benefits available to you.

Feel like a failure

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Once again, I find myself under performance management at work, supposedly in the less threatening 'initial support stage'. They feel that I am not performing well, fast enough or productive enough. Obviously I'm struggling with my emotions about this, and would love some advice as to how to calm the approach it is a stoic.

At least with me, the knee jerk is to be offended. However, that will only make it worse. Think of it this way, they are trying to tell you exactly what they value and need. Often times there is a specific task you are mismanaging that is irking one of them, and if you do that one task, they will move on. Your ADHD is preventing your brain from assigning the same value to that task, so you need to set a fuck ton of outside reminders. It's a problem with how your brain rewards you, but you can manage that with enough tricks. When it comes to getting over the sting, remember that your job is only one tiny part of your identity. Focus on those other parts of yourself to see what matters.

ADHD and Stoicism

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One of my absolute best friends was just diagnosed with a rare degenerative autoimmune disorder. We are only in our 20s, but it is likely that over the next decade her health and ability to function will deteriorate before she dies an excruciating death. The news itself hit me, and I do not know how I will be able to cope watching her decay and suffer. Any advice on what to do now, as well as the next decade moving forward? How would a Stoic approach this?

Memento mori. As a stoic, we must remind ourselves that death and sickness is not an evil, but simply a force of nature. A dissolution or change. We all die, whether it is in sickness or health, whether it is five minutes or fifty years, and we should not grieve or fear the only aspect of our lives and nature that we simply cannot overcome. Marcus Aurelius writes wonderfully about this concept in Meditations, and I cannot recommend the book enough. That being said, you have my deepest sympathy and condolences, and your friend has my prayers. I've lost people close to me as well, it was stoicism that saved me from despair.

Coping with watching deteriorating health

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Hi all first post here relatively new to stoicism but have found great comfort in stoic quotes and principles and currently reading meditations i've found stoicism to be a great way to improve myself and am trying to apply the principles to my life i've recently broken up with my girlfriend (2.5 years) and although i know it was the right choice and ultimately is best in the long run i am really struggling to apply what i've learnt so far to this issue any advice for breakups would be great and glad to join this sub

It's OK to feel things, even sadness, regret etc... Stoicism isn't about not feeling, or absolute control of your emotions. It's more about being logical with those feelings and not letting them totally control you. It's OK to grieve your loss, and you should. Remember the good stuff, and feel fortunate that you got to connect with someone so deeply. Marcus Aurelius says: > Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them. And remember there's more to life than just one other person, and you will find someone else: > When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love.

seeking advice RE: breakups

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I try to be a stoic, I know what is the outside and the inside. I know i can't control what my family say or think of me, I try to be a better me. But sometimes I am hurt because of things my parents say about me, I feel insulted, like they don't know anything about me or even try to. They have a vision about how a good son should be, what I should do to be successful. I know i shouldn't be upset about that but it's hurt and making me angry. I can't seem to control myself when I am dealing with them, I want to be a good son, I want them to be happy but I can't forget what they said that hurts me. Sorry for ranting and my bad English, I need some advice.

That's unfortunate. You are on your way! Keep studying, learning, and training to change your conditioning. I'm doing the same. > They have a vision about how a good son should be Parents shouldn't have a vision? Turn it around. Should you have a vision of how your parents should be? > Are you naturally entitled to a good father? No, only to a father. -- Epictetus, Enchiridion > I know I shouldn't be upset How do you know that you SHOULD be upset? You are upset. The system is working perfectly. Your judgments are a product of your conditioning, and they are the source of your upset (it sounds like you get this). You'll need to see that your judgments are false for them to disappear. You can talk with your parents to affect the future. Are you doing your best? You and your parents are doing your best according to how the world looks to each of you.

I keep failing when dealing with a family member

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Hi all, ​ Aspiring Stoic here and am looking for some advice. I have been reading some of Seneca (on anger) and some Marcus Aurelius. Some parts of Stoicism is resonating with me, specifically the dichotomy of control and classifying things as indifferent. One reason I came to Stoicism is due to my over analyzation of situations and being upset about the events that transpired particularly getting either sad/disappointed/mad over events that go negatively for any reason, some examples include: ​ \- Getting upset if I lose in a competitive game \- Arguing over minuscule things with close friends \- Caring too much about opinions I shouldn't Note that this isn't a super frequent situation but something I personally want to improve on. My close friends tell me I'm fine and the above is normal (they're good people) but its not the kind of person I want to be which lead me to Stoicism. I am looking for advice on how I can exercise the dichotomy of control, be indifferent to events/outcomes while also caring about the events. I feel like when I try to follow some of the ideologies I am reading about, I start to lean towards "I don't care about this so therefore it wont affect me" and I have read enough to know that this is NOT the goal. I very much do not want to fall into that anyways. ​ Please go easy on me if I mispoke on anything or missed some key context, I am new to this and looking for advice or a guide in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

I'm by no means an expert but maybe the answer is already in your post. You said when you start to read some of the ideologies(?) and begin to follow them, you start to not care. It seems like you're not properly applying what you've learned. For example, getting angry in a game. You stop and give yourself a moment. You feel the anger for what it is; a reaction. You choose not to be angered by the game. You say you follow the "ideologies" (curious what you mean) and then stop caring. There seems to be a fundamental disconnect between your understanding of the material and what's going on. If you're not caring then you're no longer feeling anger, and thus how are you applying said "ideologies?"

Struggling with some parts of Stoicism

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Hi, I'm a practising Stoic. I have read the big three and Donald Robertson two books, and trying to practise Stoicism. I want to know if I gain anything from The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, I want to get a Stoic perspective of the book before buying. There are many people who are applauding it but is it a good philosophy? I know we Stoics are open minded about getting a good advice from anyone in addition to the Stoics.

I haven't read it, but why not give it a shot? Trusting the judgment of strangers on the internet about whether or not you will get anything meaningful from this or any other book seems a bit foolish to me. If you have heard someone say they got something profound from it, then I'd say you should read it and take what you can from it; the worst case is that you can donate it to someone who would find it helpful.

Is The Monk Who Sold his Ferrari worth reading?

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Greetings, fellow seekers of wisdom in the Stoicism forum, I come to you today seeking your insights and guidance as I grapple with a deeply personal and emotionally challenging experience. My husband and I have recently faced our third miscarriage, attributed to a genetic factor that he carries. It has been an arduous journey, and though we can have a healthy baby, it is a fresh roll of the genetic dice with each pregnancy, and so far we have been unlucky. I acknowledge the stoic principle that "they were never yours anyway," suggesting that attachment to outcomes can lead to unnecessary suffering. However, I find myself struggling to fully embrace this perspective in the face of recurrent loss and the inherent sorrow it brings. The pain I feel is raw and profound, and I yearn for a stoic approach that can help me navigate this tumultuous path with greater resilience. While I deeply appreciate the philosophical teachings of Stoicism and the strength it can provide during adversity, I am humbly reaching out to you all for practical advice on how to integrate these principles into my unique circumstance. How can I reconcile my grief with the stoic perspective and find solace in these teachings? I am eager to hear your personal experiences, reflections, and any relevant stoic wisdom that can shed light on this difficult journey. I understand that life is unpredictable and that embracing virtue and maintaining inner tranquility in the face of external events is paramount. However, I seek practical guidance on how to truly embody these principles as I navigate the sorrow of recurrent miscarriage, which I am finding tremendously difficult. [P.S. No fertility recommendations, please, though I'm sure very well-intentioned - we have an excellent geneticist and this is a unique medical situation. We also have no interest in adoption - if we cannot have a biological child, we have decided to live our lives without living children].

My heart goes out to you as you navigate this difficult journey. I cannot imagine the grief that you must feel, but as humans it is natural to try to reproduce, and so it is understandable that you continue to be optimistic and to try again. Def. allow yourself to grieve your losses. There will be those in Stoicism who will say the potential child was never yours, but still you will likely have known the little one was within your body so he/she was physically yours for a while. So too, the plans and expectations that you conferred upon him or her were real, and the losses are real griefs. In time you may have a child, or maybe not. Probably no-one can tell that. You may yourselves wish to set a limit on how many times you try, how many cycles of early pregnancy then grief you are prepared to go through. And that choice may be influenced by how many weeks you go before you miscarry. Keep up your Stoic practices, keep strong, keep many different interests and other people in your life so that this issue does not identify you. You want to be loving to yourself, and a loving partner, and a person of strength and good character. These can define you and make your life worthwhile and a good life. Parenthood if it comes will be a preferred indifferent, not a statement about your value.

Seeking Stoic Guidance: Navigating Recurrent Miscarriage with a Heavy Heart

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So I had my first midterm yesterday. I'd studied enough to get a good grade, but I ended up bombing it. The night prior, I wasn't able to sleep simply because I was way too stressed. I was in bed, unable to sleep for two whole hours. And during the exam, I simply blanked out on questions I easily could've gotten on a typical day. I just felt claustrophobic and could never put my complete focus into any question. I've had the same experience in high school as well. I'd most of the time end up doing way worse than my full potential, all because of stress-related paralysis. I'm seeking Stoic advice from you. I want to do well in college, and knowing that I need to do well makes me feel like every quiz/test/exam is a life or death situation, severely affecting my performance. Also, being in one of the most competitive schools in my country has an effect too. I constantly feel like I need to be at the top of the food chain and be better than everyone else, which obviously is an unhealthy perspective. Please share your wisdom with me. How should I approach these problems? Thank you in advance.

It seems like school brings in a lot of negative stuff. You have to remember that a lot of these things are outside of your control. You can't help the fact that you have to take this exam, that is just how it has to be. From here you can recognise that these feelings of stress and anxiety are only holding you back and making the situation worse. You can remember that you are in control of your emotions and feelings so stopping these negative emotions would be in your best interest, as they provide zero benefit to you as a human, and only promote adverse affects like the ones you mentioned. Remember the Dichotomy of Control. There are two things in this world; those that are within our control, and those that aren't. We should not concern ourselves with those that aren't within our control and instead focus on what is. Good luck fellow student.

How would a true Stoic deal with exam stress?

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Note: I'm not actually in a relationship. Just looking for advice if I ever find myself in this situation I know a big thing in Stoicism is accepting that there are things outside of your control and thus you should not worry about them. But you should try and control what you can. I can understand that for every day things like work. But with something bigger and more significant, love, how does one deal with that? What would a Stoic do when, say, they find out their partner has been cheating on them? Or their partner simply does not love them anymore and wants a divorce, despite the two of you having so many happy memories together?

Things happen. Breakups seem bad, unless they needed to happen. Life good and bad makes us who we are

What would/should be the Stoic response to a breakup or divorce?

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