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triggerhappygandi#0001: Big word hurt grug head
Daj#7482: Pollyane is like an old disney movie lol
Daj#7482: *Pollyanna
triggerhappygandi#0001: Is this same as optimistic nihilism
StellaAthena#3530: It’s the cognitive bias where you remember pleasant things more than unpleasant ones
triggerhappygandi#0001: Cause this is what it all seems like
triggerhappygandi#0001: Ohhh
Igor Krawczuk#1653: that report better have really convincing arguments, otherwise I'd attest hysteria
Daj#7482: This is just my favorite schizotypy metaphor for the problem
Daj#7482: It's not an object level argument
Igor Krawczuk#1653: I have a big problem with this as well
"scary doomsday scenario coming, therefore throw out all concerns except concentrating power for rescue" is a classic control meme
Igor Krawczuk#1653: you gotta be *really* sure about FOOM for this to be okay
Daj#7482: 💯
Daj#7482: Yep absolutely
triggerhappygandi#0001: With the potential of disruption to the civilization we pose, I don't think so. Even unintelligent models are already beating the shit out of us in menial jobs
Daj#7482: Alignment is claiming "we are not a doomsday cult, because our doomsday is real"
Daj#7482: That is _terrible_ from the outside view
Daj#7482: If you're not skeptical, you're miscalibrated |
Daj#7482: This is a _pure_ inside view position I take
Daj#7482: It took me years to arrive at it, and maybe I am just actually insane
triggerhappygandi#0001: Your timeline surely is
StellaAthena#3530: @Daj seems legit to me
Daj#7482: I love when people point out like "b-but you're a cult! You have like a leader (Eliezer) and donations to approved charities and stuff!" as if that was a knockdown argument
Daj#7482: Going to church would be a fucking A+ investment of my time _if and only if Christianity was true_
triggerhappygandi#0001: Lmao who he
StellaAthena#3530: Something something pascal
Igor Krawczuk#1653: "potential disruption" blabla, people have been scared of grey goo as well. and then it didn't happen. Right now only the "power concentration" risk is really playing out (still not claiming it's unlikely, just pointing out big claims aren't and argument)
Igor Krawczuk#1653: What I'm wondering: what are you doing to deal with the "captialism is AGI" risk of this?
Daj#7482: The flaw with Pascal's Wager is he doesn#t account for the possibility of anti-gods (but lets be real, it was just a rationalization to gain contemporary social benefits)
Igor Krawczuk#1653: all your doomsday arguments apply to that as well
triggerhappygandi#0001: How long before you think NLP for document classification turns into legally arguing someone's case?
Igor Krawczuk#1653: and you need to still deal with capitalism and it's incentives to get your safe AGI techniques applied
Igor Krawczuk#1653: otherwise, if google makes more money by playing with FOOM-fire they will
Igor Krawczuk#1653: or openAI, or microsoft
Daj#7482: Yea, if I didn't think that there was an immediate path to technical solutions to AGI alignment that will solve capitalism alignment, I would probably be an economist working on economy alignmnent
Daj#7482: It's a hindrance, but solving it is not a _requirement_
StellaAthena#3530: Infinity, because document classification isn’t the same task as writing briefs
Igor Krawczuk#1653: okay, so your thinking is "we solve Alignment, then getting AGI is trivial in comparison, so we'll just build the aligned AGI and *force* everyone to be careful"? |
triggerhappygandi#0001: I don't think about AGI all that much tbh, my concerns are less _grand_ and only concern >50% unemployment era
Daj#7482: There is literally book length treatments of this, but in short everyone is fully aware we need an alignment proposal that both works and is competitive enough to use so that everyone uses it
triggerhappygandi#0001: oh come on. I know you understood what I meant
Daj#7482: If we develop an alignment approach that is NP-hard, that#s not gonna solve anything
Daj#7482: obviously
Daj#7482: (but might be a good starting point for future work)
StellaAthena#3530: More seriously, you could probably do this passably today if you cared enough.
To have a system that’s really good, five years.
To have it accepted in court, ????
triggerhappygandi#0001: Someone might try it
Daj#7482: It will take longer for the laws to allow this than for the singularity to happen lol
triggerhappygandi#0001: Probably yeah
StellaAthena#3530: I’m 50-50 on that one
triggerhappygandi#0001: These other fields just don't understand exponential growth
StellaAthena#3530: We can set aside the society question by supposing a lawyer just wants to use it to write briefs
Daj#7482: Almost no one does basically
Daj#7482: _Guys, the FLOP/$ curve is totally gonna flatten now, for real!_
StellaAthena#3530: Our field doesn’t either |
triggerhappygandi#0001: "Moore's law is about to end"
StellaAthena#3530: Moore’s law, as originally conceived, has already ended
bmk#1476: Flatten the curve
Stop intelligence explosion
Save lives
Daj#7482: Moore's Law is actually transistors per area
Daj#7482: Still going strong
triggerhappygandi#0001: Return to monke
StellaAthena#3530: I thought transistors per area had basically maxed out?
Daj#7482: Dennard Scaling has ended
Daj#7482: For Intel lol
Daj#7482: TSMC is still going strong
bmk#1476: 14nm++++
Daj#7482: https://imgur.com/gallery/2hc1XTO
triggerhappygandi#0001: Nvidia's A100 has like 55B transistors on the same chip as V100
Daj#7482: Everyone should watch this gif
Daj#7482: Before claiming anything about Moore's Law lol
CRG#8707: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9150552 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799301055854805043/09150552.pdf
triggerhappygandi#0001: Nvidia is keeping Moore's law alive for the most part
Daj#7482: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uvUiq_jTLM |
Daj#7482: Apparently this is the source
Daj#7482: as the gif cuts off
triggerhappygandi#0001: 55B transistors on a single chip, doubling from the previous gen
Daj#7482: In actuality, Moore's Law is currently healthier than it ever has been really
CRG#8707: TLDR: there are better metrics than gate length.
bmk#1476: "Does reality drive straight lines"
Igor Krawczuk#1653: @Daj you know the term "dark silicon"?
StellaAthena#3530: @Daj I love how for a decade it was over and then we were like LOL JK MULTIPLE ORDER OF MAGNITUDE IMPROVEMENT
Daj#7482: Yea
Daj#7482: Do you know the term "FLOP/$"? lol
Igor Krawczuk#1653: is moores law about density like in your gif or about flop/$ as you keep saying?
triggerhappygandi#0001: We aren't even using 5nm process
Daj#7482: Moore's Law is about density
StellaAthena#3530: Ok I’m going to go back to being productive. Bye bye
Daj#7482: But I care about the downstream FLOP/$
IKEA#9631: Apple is
Daj#7482: I just shared that video because it was brought up
triggerhappygandi#0001: take me with you _please_
Daj#7482: I could get back to work too
triggerhappygandi#0001: Still.. I will be impressed when Nvidia does it lol |
bmk#1476: Prediction: you won't be
triggerhappygandi#0001: But why
triggerhappygandi#0001: I'm not hard to please
triggerhappygandi#0001: I was impressed by A100
IKEA#9631: But not by the M1?
bmk#1476: The treadmill of Moore's law: is never fast enough
Louis#0144: The M1 equivalent for desktops is gonna be a killer for deep learning
Louis#0144: Given that they already do DL better than most laptops
nz#9710: they're on 5 nms though -- wondering whether TPU v4 is going to be 5 nms too
Louis#0144: It might actually give nvidia some needed competition
Louis#0144: Let’s be clear here, AMD is not a competitor of NVIDIA
Louis#0144: Atleast not in enterprise
Louis#0144: Or prosumer
Louis#0144: AMD is still low end gaming GPUs
Louis#0144: They just like to put high end price tags on them
nz#9710: it's trying to get in the prosumer market, without much success at the moment
Louis#0144: Yeah
bmk#1476: The hard part isn't the hardware
bmk#1476: Amd actually does have good hardware
Louis#0144: It’s because cuda is just so fucking good |
bmk#1476: The hard part is software support
Louis#0144: And amd can’t compete
Louis#0144: Cuda is a godsend
Louis#0144: It’s almost effortless to write and compile
bmk#1476: Literally vendor lock-in lmao
Louis#0144: ROCm or whatever it’s called had me wanting to pull out my hair tho
Louis#0144: Nah
Louis#0144: AMDs apis are just really bad too
Louis#0144: They don’t know how to write a good API
nz#9710: for DL hopefully innovation will also come from the various Cerebra and the other one where keller just went...
Louis#0144: It is also vendor lock-in though
cognomen#6297: vulkan is just open mantle
Louis#0144: LMAO
Louis#0144: Do people actually use vulkan
Louis#0144: It looks DOA
Louis#0144: Especially in HPC
Louis#0144: No one talks about it
Louis#0144: I think vulkan died a very fast death tbh
bmk#1476: Isn't it purely for games
Louis#0144: No |
bmk#1476: Was it ever marketed for hpc
Louis#0144: Vulkan also replaced OpenCL
Louis#0144: yes
Louis#0144: It was
cognomen#6297: hpc, no
Louis#0144: They discontinued OpenCL for Vulkan
cognomen#6297: but general compute is being improved
Louis#0144: Wdym
nz#9710: IIRC Facebook is also developing their own DL hardware right
Louis#0144: Yeah they are
Louis#0144: I think they’re also doing a lot of work on mobile DL hardware too
nz#9710: Microsoft too?
Louis#0144: Microsoft is as well
Louis#0144: They partnered with HP
dopa#3178: @Louis many game switch to vulkan, FPS is better on vulkan
Louis#0144: yes but we aren’t talking about games
Louis#0144: Vulkan is very strong w games
bmk#1476: Does anyone even play games anymore
Louis#0144: Vulkan was promoted as an OpenCL replacement
Louis#0144: That’s my issue |
nz#9710: So we're gonna have Google's TPUs, FB's hardware, MS's hardware, nvidia, cerebra (?), tenstorrent TPUs
Louis#0144: OpenCL was massively popular
Louis#0144: And still is
Louis#0144: Vulkan never caught on
nz#9710: I mean I like competition, but not sure if such fragmentation is gonna be helpful for the community as a whole
Louis#0144: And literally none of these are available to buy
Louis#0144: That’s my issue
Louis#0144: lol
nz#9710: yea true
Louis#0144: I just wanna buy a TPU
Louis#0144: :/
Louis#0144: I need that fat stack of VRAM
nz#9710: I think it's just that at the moment google considers it a serious competitive advantage
bmk#1476: Lol fuck TPUs tho
Louis#0144: Ok not a TPU exactly
Louis#0144: But u know what I mean
nz#9710: I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple years they start selling them (at least tenstorrent)
Daj#7482: Tenstorrent is making weird stuff
Daj#7482: wtf is their 16 network interface thing
Daj#7482: I'm not sure I get it lol |
Louis#0144: What do u mean
Daj#7482: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16354/jim-keller-becomes-cto-at-tenstorrent-the-most-promising-architecture-out-there
bmk#1476: > Headquartered in Toronto Canada, the fastest growing AI start-up city
:ultrazucc:
Daj#7482: Their current flagship chip is weird
nz#9710: yea the jim keller thing is promising
Daj#7482: But yeah Jim Keller is a strong signal
nz#9710: IIRC he also joined as soon as legally possible
nz#9710: so either he's just cashing out on VCs or he really believes he can be competitive
Louis#0144: LUL
Louis#0144: Maybe they mean a different Canada
Louis#0144: Maybe they mean like Ontario California
Louis#0144: And Toronto Canada is what he named his basement
nz#9710: isn't canada still somewhat competitive?
dopa#3178: @Louis what about openCL 3.0 ?
Louis#0144: Not rly
cognomen#6297: okay, looking back at it it seems further compute improvements aren't on the roadmap for vulkan
Louis#0144: There’s borealis
Louis#0144: But that’s it |
Louis#0144: No other big Canadian AI companies
bmk#1476: Isn't borealis a big flop
cognomen#6297: opencl 3.0 and next are getting new stuff from vulkan though, like SPIR-V
nz#9710: I mean if canada isn't somewhat competitive to the US I don't think there's anything else
nz#9710: maybe switzerland
Louis#0144: Yes borealis is going bankrupt I think
bmk#1476: F
Louis#0144: Last time I heard
Louis#0144: Aren’t we registering Eleuther in Canada
Daj#7482: Nein
Louis#0144: LOL
Louis#0144: true
Louis#0144: German strong company
Louis#0144: The fine engineering of Eleuther
Louis#0144: :^)
dopa#3178: this my understanding also, also seems it will have backward compatibility
Louis#0144: Promising
Daj#7482: The three Gs of Eleuther: GPT, Georgia Tech and Germans
Louis#0144: LMAO
Daj#7482: (credit to Aran for that one) |
nz#9710: is compute still the main bottleneck for DL or is it memory speed?
Daj#7482: I'll give a noncommital "both"
Igor Krawczuk#1653: for real though, what's up with all the germans here
Igor Krawczuk#1653: is this like "take over the world" attempt number 3?
dopa#3178: https://tenor.com/view/gal-godot-wonder-woman-justice-league-justice-league-movie-invasion-gif-9951046
Daj#7482: :guilty:
bmk#1476: Half life 3 confirmed
Igor Krawczuk#1653: this actually also explains why you aren't concerned about the political side of AI. concentrate all the AI power in the hand of a few germans because it's "safer" alignment wise eh? also looking at you @bmk
bmk#1476: I'm not even german
Daj#7482: No no vee vill solve problem with _German Engineering_
Daj#7482: Is not var, vee good now
Igor Krawczuk#1653: not yet
cognomen#6297: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799314906725744670/strangelove.gif
Daj#7482: Every time I try a stupid german accent I'm reminded the good old days of early 10s abridged anime https://youtu.be/a3xXPLxybvU?t=10
Daj#7482: If anime was like this I'd watch it
thenightocean#6100: I for one think the world might be a much better place if they succeeded the first time.
thenightocean#6100: (and I mean the FIRST, not the second time, if someone thinks of misquoting me 😛 )
bmk#1476: Third time's the charm
Daj#7482: Bismarck should become god emperor
Daj#7482: Fuck Wilhelm, all meine Spezis hassen Wilhelm |
thenightocean#6100: yes he was a dumbass
thenightocean#6100: I would now be living in Austro Hungarian space station probably
thenightocean#6100: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQW3VefRozc
Daj#7482: Fuck die Habsburger, all meine Kameraden hassen die Habsburger
Daj#7482: Austro Hungary is nothing compared to Bavarian/Prussian Übermensch
Daj#7482: Fun fact: Bismarck fucking hated the Bavarians lol
Daj#7482: even so everyone outside of Germany considers them the "most German" usually
Daj#7482: My favorite Bismarck quote is "The Bavarian is the missing link between Austrian and human"
Sid#2121: the two categories of how foreigners see germans are: the leiderhosen german, and the efficiency german
Sid#2121: bavarians are the former
bmk#1476: Sadness pants
Daj#7482: Bavarians also have a lot of the high end engineering
Daj#7482: e.g. BMW
Sid#2121: nah, leiderhosen
thenightocean#6100: well maybe Habsburgs weren't hot shit if you are Prussian, but if you have misfortune of being born in say, Balkans Austro-Hungarian rule is still looked as Utopian golden age compared to everything that came after
Daj#7482: Leiderhosen would translate as "suffering pants", or even more accurately "Unfortunately Pants"
Daj#7482: It's Lederhosen, but maybe you are ultimately right lol
Daj#7482: First mistake: Being born in East Europe
thenightocean#6100: need to chose better respawn point
Igor Krawczuk#1653: In poland they say "because god loves us, he created poland. and because he has a sense of humour, he put us between germany and russia" |
Igor Krawczuk#1653: ("they" being history nerds mainly)
TheAloof#8651: Yeah, no. (Obviously depending on who you ask, but) many people from the Balkans would consider SFRY to be our greatest moment. And for SFRY there had to be a Kingdom of South Slavs, and for *that*, there had to be a Gavrilo Princip.
thenightocean#6100: Only the wrong Balkan type of people though 😛
TheAloof#8651: No, no, those you'll find in the Youtube comment section.
3dprint_the_world#6486: why would Germany taking over the world be a problem
3dprint_the_world#6486: I see nothing but benefits
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Google "Andreas Scheuer"
fristiloverke#4159: what's so bad about him? All I could find is that he's minister of transport so he's responsible for things like roads and Deutsche B...oooohhh
bmk#1476: What's wrong with that? It's not like Deutsche Bahn is always horribly late or anything
Dromarion#3383: How does DB even continue to exist? Whenever they get on the news it's about them losing money
mgostIH#0245: PCA is the equivalent of an autoencoder without nonlinearities trained to minimize squared loss
triggerhappygandi#0001: Because of the dimensionality reduction similarity?
Igor Krawczuk#1653: I actually learned about PCA via neural PCA in my undergrad^^
mgostIH#0245: It literally is that
Igor Krawczuk#1653: You literally can represent PCA as 2 matrices projecting in and out of a latent space
mgostIH#0245: A good way to see that is by checking out SVD matrix decomposition, which is the algorithm often used to compute PCAs
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Which *is* your autoencoder if you size it right
mgostIH#0245: The difference is that the SVD decomposition does it in one shot for all of your data
mgostIH#0245: While we usually train neural networks via SGD
fristiloverke#4159: Not to nickpick but PCA puts more restrictions on the weights/parameters than an autoencoder |
fristiloverke#4159: namely b = 0 and W^TW = I
mgostIH#0245: You often do PCA on normalized data
mgostIH#0245: As in you subtract the mean of the data from each point so you can handle affine cases
mgostIH#0245: Regarding the orthogonality thingy, it'll always end up for well formed data (and when the compression isn't the identity) with neural networks, since it's pretty much the only way of minimizing the loss
fristiloverke#4159: I'm a bit sceptical about claim, there are lots of ways in which two matrices A and B can yield A^T B = I, so I don't see why sgd would be expected to find A = B = 'an orthogonal matrix', especially when you in general have non-zero bias term
Deleted User#0000: vs code or vim?
chilli#5665: vscodevim
chilli#5665: but irrelevant to this server
bmk#1476: (and please dont spam multiple channels with the same question)
Gabriel#0454: The `CrossShardOptimizer` thing is still bummin' me out
copper#0409: Did anyone play around with DeBerta already? The pre-trained models are not available on the Github repo...
zphang#7252: the 1.5B models aren't uploaded yet, but the smaller models have been available (including via hugging face) for a while
copper#0409: ok, the smaller shouldn't reach 90.3 superglue or does it?
zphang#7252: nope
copper#0409: just comparing the three top models and wondering which will perform the best on q a with a given context, so not end-to-end
copper#0409: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799527013924601876/unknown.png
copper#0409: my feeling is that DeBERTa should be better than T5 because of the better scores in NER, relative clauses, active/passive; however and since the large model is not available I stick with T5
chilli#5665: oh
chilli#5665: did deberta originally get first
chilli#5665: and then google released T5 + meena to beat them soon after |
chilli#5665: and then deberta got updated again to be no.1 ?
copper#0409: yeah but they are quite close, is T5 + Meena available anywhere?
triggerhappygandi#0001: https://twitter.com/SchmidhuberAI/status/1349623978684461056?s=19
triggerhappygandi#0001: Why does he do this
triggerhappygandi#0001: I legit never heard of a DanNet. Maybe being Schmidhubered really should be a verb.
copper#0409: never heard either
copper#0409: so, T5 + Meena is also not available publicly, then T5 is still the number one on superglue
copper#0409: anyone using T5 in production?
triggerhappygandi#0001: I am working with it.
triggerhappygandi#0001: Not sure if it will be the final model for production
triggerhappygandi#0001: Just testing for now
copper#0409: via huggingface?
triggerhappygandi#0001: Yes
copper#0409: which task?
triggerhappygandi#0001: Conversational question-answering
copper#0409: me too
copper#0409: not conversational but q-a with a given context
copper#0409: which model do you favor?
triggerhappygandi#0001: The T5 q-a model
triggerhappygandi#0001: Iirc there's only one on HF |
copper#0409: valhalla/t5-base-qa-qg-hl ?
triggerhappygandi#0001: Yes
copper#0409: do you use the hf way or this extra repo from the maintainer Suraji?
triggerhappygandi#0001: @StellaAthena what's so special about ZeRO 2?
triggerhappygandi#0001: Never asked it before 😅
chilli#5665: it just reduces memory usage more
Gabriel#0454: Pinging @Sid: is there any way round the `CrossShardOptimizer` problem? I tried looking into the mtf source code, but it didn't help
triggerhappygandi#0001: Lmao
triggerhappygandi#0001: I get OOM _because_ I use zero stage 2
triggerhappygandi#0001: Works fine with stage 1
Daj#7482: It optimized the memory use below 0, so it underflowed
chilli#5665: Sounds like constant factor issues
triggerhappygandi#0001: I don't understand
triggerhappygandi#0001: What does that mean
chilli#5665: Overall zero stage 2 will decrease the memory usage per node
triggerhappygandi#0001: I see.
triggerhappygandi#0001: But I am working with a single GPU
chilli#5665: However, you can still OOM if you're say, allocating a tensor close to the memory and zero stage 2 copies it temporarily
chilli#5665: Are you using the zero out of place thing?
chilli#5665: Zero-offload |
triggerhappygandi#0001: Idk. Basically I ran the gpt_neox code for pipeline training
triggerhappygandi#0001: And changed the json to have zero set to stage 2
triggerhappygandi#0001: In `base_deepspeed.json`
chilli#5665: If you're running on one gpu zero optimizer does nothing
triggerhappygandi#0001: I see. But can I overcome the oom error?
triggerhappygandi#0001: Or do I decrease the batch size or something
chilli#5665: Probably
chilli#5665: Or err, I don't know if it literally does nothing
chilli#5665: But the optimization it does doesn't make sense with 1 gpu
triggerhappygandi#0001: Being _not_ rich is hard life
triggerhappygandi#0001: :zucc:
triggerhappygandi#0001: I should try it on a 2V100 setup
mgostIH#0245: I think it's the Eckart-Young Low Rank Approximation Theorem.
Essentially you are trying to approximate the matrix of all the vectors you are taking the PCA of with a lower rank one (because in an autoencoder you are first projecting to a lower dimension). If you approximate in order to reduce the least squares error for each vector SGD you are in that case
fristiloverke#4159: I think your argument only works if the encoder and decoder share parameters, but I've never seen that being used in practice
mgostIH#0245: @fristiloverke SVD uses 2 matrices
mgostIH#0245: It's not A = Q D Q^T, it's A = U D Q^T where U and Q are orthogonal matrices, but don't share properties between each other
mgostIH#0245: So I don't see why the encoder and decoders would have to share parameters
mgostIH#0245: You are essentially asking to factorize the matrix into two of them, if account for the normalization of matrices column vectors you can get the diagonal matrix SVD would give you
ABK#6104: Hello all. I saw this group mentioned by Connor on Twitter WRT the most recent Evans/Hernandez-Orallo paper and was wondering where that discussion is happening |
cfoster0#4356: Hello 👋🏿. Some folks were discussing it in #research, if you scroll up there a bit
chilli#5665: https://discord.com/channels/729741769192767510/747850033994662000/799683993553076284
ABK#6104: Thank you!
spirit-from-germany#1488: Wow! You are famous now! @Sid @Daj
https://venturebeat.com/2021/01/15/ai-weekly-meet-the-people-trying-to-replicate-and-open-source-openais-gpt-3/
Daj#7482: We did it boys
Daj#7482: We're famous
Daj#7482: Time for the inevitable shameful, drug fueled fall from grace :ultrazucc:
mgostIH#0245: If AI can do protein folding it better create new fun drugs too
bmk#1476: > as soon as August
oh no, a deadline!
Daj#7482: I told him "August at the earliest" lmao
bmk#1476: The pressure is on
Daj#7482: *whip crack*
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799733488856858664/Screenshot_2021-01-15-13-15-06-436_com.android.chrome.png
bmk#1476: Lol it won't even let me read what they wrote
Daj#7482: Or that paywall remover addon thats on github
3dprint_the_world#6486: the only question is which drug |
gwern#1782: hm, bypass paywall isn't working for me. no-page-style works, though, and you can tell since it just blurs out the text, indicating a CSS effect
3dprint_the_world#6486: I vote for quaaludes
bmk#1476: Huh, the article isn't bad
gwern#1782: 'Leahy characterized the argument as a “red herring,” saying he believes it’s a matter of whether the ends justify the means — that is, whether the output of the training is worth the energy put into it. “The amount of energy that goes into training such a model is much less than, say, the energy that goes into serving any medium-sized website, or a single trans-Atlantic flight to present a paper about the carbon emissions of AI models at a conference, or, God forbid, Bitcoin mining,” Leahy said. “No one complains about the energy bill of CERN (The European Organization for Nuclear Research), and I don’t think they should, either.” ' spicy
Daj#7482: Man you should have seen my original response before editing it down lol
gwern#1782: did it include goatherders
Daj#7482: (I will be making an extra spicy Blogpost soon)
thenightocean#6100: is it normal that every article about AI in MSM must spend at least 70% of text talking about this issues?
Daj#7482: sHiBbOlEtHs
Daj#7482: I'll be writing about it soon
thenightocean#6100: and yet not mentioning the really scary outcome (cause only low-status nerds worry about that)
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Alternative take: it's the socially accepted risk right now, the question "is it good to put so much potential power into billionaire hands" isn't as PC
Daj#7482: What are you talking about that's at best mildly spicy lol
Igor Krawczuk#1653: This one people just don't take as seriously
Daj#7482: People talk about that in MSM all the time
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Not properly
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Clarification: do you mean with AI specifically?
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Or billionaires as a problem in general?
Daj#7482: Both
Daj#7482: ¯\\_(ツ)\_/¯ |
Igor Krawczuk#1653: It might feel that way to you, but no. People generally accept billionaires as A-OK in the MSM, very few people are socialist enough to think of their mere existence as problematic
Daj#7482: Eh I guess
thenightocean#6100: It is just that I noticed that every new article about some AI achievement in Wired or similar publication must endlessly talk about "energy costs" or stuff. Its like writing about nuclear war and then spend most of the text about negative impact of nuclear explosions on wildlife conservation
Daj#7482: I don't actually care lol
Daj#7482: Who cares what normies think
Daj#7482: Man you should see my original 6 page essay response lmao
Igor Krawczuk#1653: People who try to influence politics to get stuff done
thenightocean#6100: (send me on pm 😛 )
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Not as a principle, but as a tool
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Seconded
Daj#7482: Who tries to have meaningful impact in the world by using _politics_? lmao
Daj#7482: I'm turning the response into a blog post so you'll see it by the end of the month hopefully
Igor Krawczuk#1653: We can debate that at some point, but I don't generally feel people are actually doing good faith debate on that. Especially tech people go "politics trololol" and then when their shit gets banned they go slow Pikachu
Igor Krawczuk#1653: It's very intellectually cool to hate politics
Daj#7482: I have actual strong models about this, but tbh I really dislike debating about it
Daj#7482: I don't hate it because it's cool
Daj#7482: My comparative advantage is to a large degree that I'm actually innately good at politics
Daj#7482: But fuck politics lol
Daj#7482: For so many reasons
Igor Krawczuk#1653: If you ever want to share them I'll be curious :-) |
Daj#7482: I am too busy/tired to discuss this in detail, another time
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Not now,no worries, I still need to find time for the bio-report
thenightocean#6100: `I’m less sanguine about the state of America in particular but I think that its generally First World problems probably can’t be solved by politics. They will probably require either genetic engineering or artificial intelligence; the job of our generation is keep the world functional enough to do the research that will create those technologies, and to alleviate as much suffering as we can in the meantime.`
thenightocean#6100: https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/09/28/ssc-endorses-clinton-johnson-or-stein/
Daj#7482: Yea that sounds about right
gwern#1782: time to cancel scott
Bunzero#2802: I, too, submit to our soon to be AI overlords
thenightocean#6100: they already did
Daj#7482: I have some good news
gwern#1782: hurray! history bends toward justice!
Daj#7482: :taleb:
thenightocean#6100: it bends toward whataver EleutherAI will want it to bend 😛
Daj#7482: Disgusted Taleb judges you
gwern#1782: we must seize the means of perplexlity
bmk#1476: You have nothing to lose but your loss
bmk#1476: Experts of the Mixture, unite!
Ken#8338: On the hardware side of things - early but possibly promising: https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/semiconductors/processors/system-creates-the-illusion-of-an-ideal-ai-chip
Ken#8338: System Creates the Illusion of an Ideal AI Chip
Team makes multiple processors with 3D memory act like one big chip
Igor Krawczuk#1653: Nice work |
3dprint_the_world#6486: > Among other personality quirks, Leahy despises members of the so-called 'furry' subculture
Daj#7482: Fake news, furries are my favorite internet thing
Daj#7482: I despise anime
bmk#1476: The Great Eleuther Anime/Furry Schism of 2021
Deleted User#0000: the only thing keeping that from happening are catgirls
Deleted User#0000: catgirls are the key to world peace
Daj#7482: :yud:
Daj#7482: This is such a stupid obscure reference, I hate that we have this emote
Deleted User#0000: whats that emoji
Daj#7482: You don't want to know lol
Deleted User#0000: >.< i do
Daj#7482: I guess I should explain: You know who Eliezer is?
bmk#1476: It gets an unreasonable amount of usage
Deleted User#0000: yeah
Daj#7482: Eliezer posted a pic of himself in a speedo once
Daj#7482: That's the cropped version
Deleted User#0000: ah
Deleted User#0000: aH
Deleted User#0000: oK
Deleted User#0000: kek |
Daj#7482: It's so, so much worse than you can imagine
bmk#1476: Have you seen the Original?
Deleted User#0000: no
Deleted User#0000: but now im debating whether i want to
Daj#7482: also Eliezer wrote some essays about catgirls specifically
bmk#1476: This is a virulent meme
Daj#7482: so it's a multilayer reference
bmk#1476: He is on the wrong side of the Schism
Daj#7482: Let me put this in words you understand: He is so hairy he's basically wearing a fursuit
Deleted User#0000: lol
Deleted User#0000: its funny coz furries like fur, but they often shave too
Daj#7482: You have been led astray
Deleted User#0000: i thought catgirls where the middle of the schism, keeping both sides united
Daj#7482: I will create a new schism
bmk#1476: Mathematical proof that anime is less sexual than furrydom https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799778668149735444/Screenshot_2021-01-15-16-14-20-856_com.discord.png
Daj#7482: I'm not sure which side you're arguing for here
Daj#7482: Furries are much, much funnier than weebs
Daj#7482: That's all I care about really
bmk#1476: Funnier in what sense
Daj#7482: Just...look at them |
bmk#1476: And does the existence of maid outfits change the balance
Daj#7482: Hilarious
Deleted User#0000: furries in maid outfits is the best of both worlds
Daj#7482: Comedy is a mix of two elements mostly: Absurdity and harmlessness
Daj#7482: Furries are completely absurd and harmless
Daj#7482: Weebs are basically organized pedos in denial
Daj#7482: ~~This is obviously comedic hyperbole~~
bmk#1476: I cite this as counterevidence
Daj#7482: Sexual I don't care
Daj#7482: Anime sexualizes actual underage human bodies
Daj#7482: Furries literally sexualize things that don't exist
Deleted User#0000: tbh saying weebs are pedos is a bit like saying furries are zoophiles
Daj#7482: So they're harmless
Daj#7482: And ridiculous
Daj#7482: = Comedy
Daj#7482: I'm not making any form of a serious argument in case that wasn't clear lmao
Deleted User#0000: yeah i get it lol
bmk#1476: No but ackschuyally 10000 year old dragon
bmk#1476: Wait, that's a crossover
Daj#7482: See? The furries take the 10000 year old dragon literally |
bmk#1476: Are dragon furries a thing
Daj#7482: hilarious
Deleted User#0000: its just that when i first got into furries was with the vrchat people with nanachi avatars, and then my friends told me they looked underage
Deleted User#0000: so lel
Deleted User#0000: not even furries are safe
Daj#7482: the overlap is obvious
Daj#7482: ~~***AUTISM***~~
Deleted User#0000: anarcho-autist unite!
Daj#7482: I have a shameful love for old school 4chan cringe sometimes, but I always felt so god damn terrible if someone actually got hurt or was dangerous
Deleted User#0000: yeah thats bad
Daj#7482: Furries are great because unlike other prime cut cringe, like incels, they're just harmless and doing their own thing
Deleted User#0000: by definition lol
Deleted User#0000: yee, i dont get why they get so much hate
Daj#7482: Incels are unbelievably funny, but they're both dangerous and themselves in pain
Deleted User#0000: i donno much about incels
Daj#7482: so I don't like watching incel cringe
Deleted User#0000: makes sense
Daj#7482: Because people don't embrace the absurd
Daj#7482: they're weak
Deleted User#0000: lel |
Deleted User#0000: open your mind
bmk#1476: Tbh i think of incels similar to qanon people
Daj#7482: There's a significant overlap
bmk#1476: They're people who are experiencing hardship, and then they get inducted into the cult and then become crazies
Daj#7482: I recently watched the best movie ever with Sid: Tickled
Daj#7482: About the underground evil tickle fetish mafia
Daj#7482: That shit's my jam
bmk#1476: The
bmk#1476: What
Daj#7482: Holy shit it's so fucking funny
Deleted User#0000: i didnt know qanon
Daj#7482: Watch the movie
Daj#7482: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOBXuCYB4jQ
Daj#7482: _wheezing_
Deleted User#0000: what
bmk#1476: "evil tickle fetish mafia" is not 4 words i expected next to each other
Daj#7482: it's such a rabbit hole you have no fucking idea
Daj#7482: this is the kind of shit I used to study back when I was a teen on kiwifarms and shit
Deleted User#0000: is that real
Daj#7482: This story is 100% real |
Daj#7482: the movie is amazing
Deleted User#0000: im so confused
Deleted User#0000: nice
Daj#7482: This kind of stuff is the funniest thing in the world to me
Sid#2121: it's a great movie. it goes so much deeper than you could ever expect a movie about tickling to go
Sid#2121: fuck competitive tickling, all my homies hate competitive tickling
StellaAthena#3530: @snarkitten is the latest GTech recruit.
snarkitten#4807: Hello everyone!
Daj#7482: Hello! What a great conversation to wander in on
Daj#7482: We really are recruiting all of GT, aren't we lol
Daj#7482: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799783547137294366/Polish_20210116_003400576.jpg
bmk#1476: Why are there so many georgia tech ;-;
bmk#1476: I don't have any particular mental associations between GT and scaling
bmk#1476: Is there anything that makes GT people much more interested in scaling??
jrowe#5371: maybe something to do with peaches... and hot summers?
Daj#7482: Maybe they're trying to escape being in Georgia
kindiana#1016: I almost went to gt too lmao
bmk#1476: We need an almost-GT tag
jrowe#5371: https://www.ic.gatech.edu/content/artificial-intelligence-machine-learning
kindiana#1016: Maybe that should just redirect to eleuther |
bmk#1476: lol
jrowe#5371: lol
bmk#1476: we need more affiliation diversity
jrowe#5371: man, not many degrees of separation between darpa/DOE/NSA and some folks here
jrowe#5371: gpt would be terrifyingly effective and abusable surveillance enhancement for something like the tools snowden revealed
bmk#1476: I think @StellaAthena is probably our closest link to the nsa/doj
jrowe#5371: oh, lol
jrowe#5371: booze-hamilton, nice
StellaAthena#3530: What
jrowe#5371: i wonder if they tell snowden stories
bmk#1476: You have the least degree of separation to the nsa probably
jrowe#5371: hi there
jrowe#5371: I was just looking at GT wondering if there was anyone famous in faculty I'd recognize and found they've got some pretty extensive projects funded by DOE and so on
jrowe#5371: then poked around at who some of the other folks are here
StellaAthena#3530: Ah yes, I work with Shadowy Government Agencies
StellaAthena#3530: GT’s most famous prof just left actually
jrowe#5371: so here's an interesting thought - is there a digital chaff methodology that could be used by an individual with a GPT system to counter potential panopticon abuse using the tool?
jrowe#5371: who was that?
StellaAthena#3530: Lance Fortnow
StellaAthena#3530: He was recruited to be the Dean of U of I’s College of Computing |
jrowe#5371: neat
Aran Komatsuzaki#5714: tbh i don't know any gt ml prof
StellaAthena#3530: I’m biased (I was recruited to CS by his PhD advisor so clearly I’m predisposed to like his work) but I think he’s probably the most famous
StellaAthena#3530: Someone who does good work but doesn’t have flashy name recognition is the guy who teaches the intro to AI course... fuck
StellaAthena#3530: What’s his name
StellaAthena#3530: Thad Sterner
StellaAthena#3530: He is about to hit 33,333 lifetime citations which I remember largely because I find it amusing
StellaAthena#3530: He does work on IoT and wearable computing. He was the original lead of Google Glass
StellaAthena#3530: Oh the internet says that Sebastian Thrun is still an adjunct professor at GT. That’s the answer then @Aran Komatsuzaki @jrowe
jrowe#5371: cool, ty
triggerhappygandi#0001: Both of them provide top kek cringe
triggerhappygandi#0001: Look at weebs arguing whether watching dubbed anime is sin or not.
triggerhappygandi#0001: They are infighting about what language they enjoy their autism in
bmk#1476: Dubbed anime is sin
bmk#1476: Subbed anime is also sin
triggerhappygandi#0001: Anime in general is sin
bmk#1476: I have made myself the rule that i am only allowed to watch anime in the original japanese, and only once i can actually understand it
Aran Komatsuzaki#5714: yeah good christians only consume furries
triggerhappygandi#0001: :berk:
triggerhappygandi#0001: Even though I may rag on anime on the internet, I gotta say it is infinitely more creative than Hollywood |
triggerhappygandi#0001: And all its minions.
triggerhappygandi#0001: It says so with Stanford as well. He's not really a 2x professor right?
triggerhappygandi#0001: Alongside his expensive coursera
bmk#1476: @EarlyAdopter what kind of support would you be able to make available to us for gpt-neo(x)?
EarlyAdopter#4252: Raising awareness that gpt-neo(x) is happening. Outreach to potential compute providers. Raising the project’s profile. Recruiting volunteers.
StellaAthena#3530: *skilled* volunteers?
EarlyAdopter#4252: Well, I will do my best to help you find skilled volunteers.
EarlyAdopter#4252: Come and join the group and post notices about what you’re looking for.
bmk#1476: @EarlyAdopter we don't need any more awareness among not-potential-*skilled*-volunteers than we already have
bmk#1476: we're trying to keep a low profile there, tbh
bmk#1476: more attention hurts our mission
bmk#1476: we have the resources we need for the moment, right now what we need is to get things done
bmk#1476: also, i don't use facebook so i cant
EarlyAdopter#4252: We’re at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/781481526004963/?ref=share
EarlyAdopter#4252: OK. I won’t try to raise your profile. Good luck with your project.
StellaAthena#3530: If anyone wants to read the Vulture Beat article about us, it was just released. Paywalled, but read it here: https://justpaste.it/5y2y4
axiom#3599: i just showed up from that article
StellaAthena#3530: Haha
StellaAthena#3530: Welcome @axiom
axiom#3599: :fijiHi: |
axiom#3599: whatcha need help with
StellaAthena#3530: RIP. There’s a couple inaccuracies and minor weirdnesses, but the author miscounted the number of people on the Pile paper
StellaAthena#3530: Our names are in a 4 x 3 grid
StellaAthena#3530: How do you get that wrong
axiom#3599: does it matter? pop sci on AI is comically errant
axiom#3599: that’s par for the course
StellaAthena#3530: Oh yeah
StellaAthena#3530: I’m just enjoying myself
StellaAthena#3530: I’m just reading it for the first time
StellaAthena#3530: This is shockingly not awful
StellaAthena#3530: And only a little shorter than the message you sent him @Daj
StellaAthena#3530: (Actually, we should do a word count and see if you wrote him more info than is in the article. That would be hilarious. My guess is no.)
axiom#3599: i can’t afford these gpt-3 costs for my procedurally generated mangas
axiom#3599: oh, look at all these projects in the sidebar
StellaAthena#3530: What sidebar
axiom#3599: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799886875883733022/image0.png
StellaAthena#3530: Ah yes
StellaAthena#3530: Anywho, welcome!
StellaAthena#3530: What’s you’re background / skill set @axiom
axiom#3599: My undergraduate was in Computer Science and Neuroscience with minors in music and japanese |
axiom#3599: i’m published in brain/machine interfaces and nlp, but i havent participated in research since a dumb excursion to med school
axiom#3599: ummm, i’m an ex-googler, and i was waitlisted for the OpenAI scholars program
bmk#1476: exciting stuff
bmk#1476: i'm actually super interested in medical applications for ML stuff but there's the small hitch that i don't know anything about anything medical whatsoever so i'm always glad to find someone with that knowledge
axiom#3599: EleutherAI seems very pog
bmk#1476: also how good are you at japanese? ive always been looking for a conversational partner lol
axiom#3599: why that name btw?
axiom#3599: i’m super rusty! let’s get good together
axiom#3599: ganbarou
bmk#1476: nihongo o benkyoushiteimasu
axiom#3599: sou desu ka?
bmk#1476: oh no how do i respond
axiom#3599: :honeyc2Cute:
axiom#3599: nan jikan benkyou shite iru?
bmk#1476: ichi nen gurai benkyou shiteiru
bmk#1476: (a small disclaimer: I'm studying japanese in a weird bottom up approach so i basically haven't learned any conversational bits yet)
axiom#3599: suteki!
axiom#3599: bottom-up how?
bmk#1476: Grammar/vocab first rather than the whole "learning to be able to talk about the weather or book a hotel or whatever" kind of learning that you would typically do in a course
axiom#3599: lol, i don’t even talk to people in english about the weather, when am i ever gonna do it in japanese |
bmk#1476: Also since i already know chinese, figuring out the meaning of kanji is actually the easiest part and figuring out the readings is the hardest
axiom#3599: you hacker
bmk#1476: Lol
axiom#3599: yeah, that’s gonna make it alot easier
axiom#3599: my wanikani backlog rn
axiom#3599: :yikes:
axiom#3599: japanese is pretty grammatically simple
axiom#3599: the kanji is the only thing that’s hard about it for a non speaker
bmk#1476: Well kanji is still hard for me
bmk#1476: I need to learn the readings and often the meanings diverge in subtle but annoying ways
axiom#3599: coming from chinese i imagine theres a lot of false cognates tru
bmk#1476: Yes, very many, but also many true cognates, which is nice
zphang#7252: 非常食
zphang#7252: wait I just realized it makes sense if you break it down as 非(常食)
bmk#1476: What is this supposed to mean in japanese
zphang#7252: emergency rations
bmk#1476: Ah
axiom#3599: hehe, you play genshin impact?
bmk#1476: iie
axiom#3599: @zphang |
zphang#7252: nop
bmk#1476: gemu o asobi ni shimasen
bmk#1476: Did i say that right
axiom#3599: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799892239076556830/image0.jpg
zphang#7252: kusoge
axiom#3599: savage
axiom#3599: gemu o asobanai
bmk#1476: Ah
bmk#1476: wakarimashita
axiom#3599: :abbaSmort:
AI_WAIFU#2844: Ah yes, another weeb arrives.
IKEA#9631: hol up. you worked at google?
axiom#3599: i did
bmk#1476: *says the user called AI_WAIFU*
bmk#1476: Yup, checks out
IKEA#9631: and you watch v-tubers?
IKEA#9631: wth
AI_WAIFU#2844: and vtuber connoisseur
IKEA#9631: i figured only 14yo girls watched that shit
zphang#7252: how hard is it to v-tube |
AI_WAIFU#2844: I watch that shit religiously.
zphang#7252: like if I wanted to do it for all my zoom calls
zphang#7252: as goku
zphang#7252: can I buy a goku model
axiom#3599: ive thought about that alot
AI_WAIFU#2844: It's trivial. You need a steam game and a web cam.
zphang#7252: no special equipment?
cfoster0#4356: ! Really?
AI_WAIFU#2844: Yup.
axiom#3599: idk if i can get away with doing that on my zoom calls sadly
zphang#7252: guys
AI_WAIFU#2844: I'm trying to get a free solution on linux but that's been low priority.
cfoster0#4356: *checks notes* Why haven't I done this already?!
zphang#7252: we need to do an eleuther zoom, except its SEELE
AI_WAIFU#2844: For now you'll have to settle for this: https://github.com/kwea123/VTuber_Unity which is crap.
bmk#1476: Pls i haven't watched eva yet because it's blocked on me learning japanese first, which is blocked on me actually spending time doing japanese
axiom#3599: i was thinking i’d roll my own
axiom#3599: maybe i’ll fork that project
AI_WAIFU#2844: I have some unity code that let's you load in arbitrary vroid avatars
bmk#1476: I don't think we'll be able to use eleuther resources for anything like that, unfortunately |
AI_WAIFU#2844: + other utilities for vtubing
AI_WAIFU#2844: I just need to hook it up to this guys facial recognition
axiom#3599: i was thinking i’d use signed distance functions over traditional modeling
axiom#3599: but i might just fold and use traditional models
AI_WAIFU#2844: Signed distance functions?
axiom#3599: https://youtu.be/8--5LwHRhjk
axiom#3599: this is way more intuitive to me than learning blender or unity’s ui
bmk#1476: "with maths"
bmk#1476: "with coding and algorithms"
AI_WAIFU#2844: it's tru though
bmk#1476: (sorry, had to)
AI_WAIFU#2844: I wouldn't worry too much about low level concerns like the rendering.
AI_WAIFU#2844: You really want to integrate as much as possible with existing pipelines, both for efficiency and artistic considerations.
axiom#3599: yeah, recognize that
axiom#3599: and blender has a python api so
axiom#3599: easy clap
AI_WAIFU#2844: The strat is to pay an artist to make you a model, then solve the problem of rigging it to your face.
AI_WAIFU#2844: Which IMO is the hard part.
axiom#3599: i want to make my model though
AI_WAIFU#2844: Then in that case never mind. |
axiom#3599: I feel like there’s alot of room to to streamline the process from concept to rigged model if you can do things programmatically
axiom#3599: but if your process goes through these proprietary programs like clips studio and what not...
AI_WAIFU#2844: You're gonna be hard pressed to beat paying someone 200$ to make it happen.
axiom#3599: indeed if all you care about is one model that’s the way to go
AI_WAIFU#2844: Yeah, if you're trying to stream line the process then I agree. The difficult part though is also to consider your audience. Animators can be very technical, but only some of them are like that. So you have to tailor the complexity of your software if you're going for mass appeal.
axiom#3599: It’s a challenging problem, to design tools in a way that non-technical animators would be able to use them
dopa#3178: why rigging is such a big problem ?
AI_WAIFU#2844: If you haven't already, there's a whole bunch of streamers/vtubers that you can talk to for feedback on what a better tool would look like.
axiom#3599: It’s labor intensive and nontransferable
AI_WAIFU#2844: Yeah, if you look at the rigging process for say Live2D. It's very intensive.
dopa#3178: to my understanding you really doing it from scratch
dopa#3178: you just buy models rigged with similar skeleton
dopa#3178: and then modify it as needed
dopa#3178: seems like I am missing level of rigging here 😭
AI_WAIFU#2844: One thing I was considering was building an "emotion detector" that works for characters and human images. Then using that to learn a mapping between an avatars degrees of freedom and facial key-points or direct webcam images.
axiom#3599: if you hire someone and pay them $4k to design and rig your avatar, they’re doing it from scratch each time
dopa#3178: seems like this is what star citizen did
dopa#3178: can you give me example of such work ?
bmk#1476: this sounds like the thing that a paper in 3 years or so will be able to do 100% automatically from just a single blurry still frame
AI_WAIFU#2844: Potentially using something similar to CLIP |
bmk#1476: "PoSERiG Transformer: Generating High-Fidelity Rigged 3D Models from Low-Quality Stills" (arXiv:2401.69420)
AI_WAIFU#2844: ^
axiom#3599: https://twitter.com/jjinomu
AI_WAIFU#2844: That or just look at Froot. Arguably the most technically impressive 2D vtuber out there.
axiom#3599: we could write that paper
dopa#3178: what are trying to rig there face animation ?
axiom#3599: :snuffySippies:
axiom#3599: Everything
axiom#3599: the face stuff is more important though
bmk#1476: i swear i read a similar paper once but i can no longer find it
axiom#3599: most of the time the streamer is just a talking head
dopa#3178: yeah, this is one rig for all models, I am not expert in this
axiom#3599: sometimes the streamers have custom expressions
dopa#3178: I would understand issue when you have 30 different creatures with different skeletons
AI_WAIFU#2844: Like look at al the animation needed to make this happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6B4tV_gARg
axiom#3599: Alot of streamers us 2d models instead of 3d models
axiom#3599: So they need idiosyncratic mesh deformations
dopa#3178: custom expressions that's still same skeleton
axiom#3599: again, not all streamers are even human anime girls
bmk#1476: i wonder what the ratios are |
bmk#1476: what % of female avatar streamers are female
dopa#3178: this is interesting, but don't see who this would require different skeleton
bmk#1476: the fact that this exists creates so many conflicting emotions in me
axiom#3599: they don’t have a skeleton in this case
axiom#3599: it’s a whole bunch of 2d images that are deformed to give the illusion of being 3d
axiom#3599: Instead of an actual 3d model
axiom#3599: https://m.twitch.tv/klaeia/profile
axiom#3599: hers works that way
bmk#1476: the word "mesh" induces pain in me still
dopa#3178: hmmm
AI_WAIFU#2844: *Give in to the degeneracy*
axiom#3599: most people use female ones, regardless of their voice’s perceived gender
axiom#3599: I think i’ve seen like one male model in like the last 6 months lmao
bmk#1476: i mean the operators
bmk#1476: what percentage of operators are female
axiom#3599: probably 90%?
bmk#1476: huh
bmk#1476: i thought it would be the other way around, tbh
AI_WAIFU#2844: Well they could be men using voice changers
bmk#1476: yes im saying |
bmk#1476: what % of operators are biologically female
axiom#3599: i think cis-dudes would have their masculinity challenged?
bmk#1476: or is that unknown
bmk#1476: i mean, this *is* anime
bmk#1476: what masculinity
axiom#3599: and voice-changers you can grab off a shelf aren’t exactly convincing
AI_WAIFU#2844: It's unknown but I would say 70-80%
bmk#1476: huh
AI_WAIFU#2844: The problem is it depends on your sample.
AI_WAIFU#2844: Men are inherently less popular, so you have to use 3rd party search engines to find them.
bmk#1476: also how long until we wire up a fully autonomous eleutherchan vtuber
bmk#1476: we never got on that
bmk#1476: is it time to change that
AI_WAIFU#2844: But the ones that do get popular end up with litteral anime girls vtuber simp harems
AI_WAIFU#2844: Actually even the small ones get anime girl vtuber simp harems
bmk#1476: this makes me feel so conflicted
AI_WAIFU#2844: This is why I'm conflicted when deciding which gender I should choose when becoming a vtuber.
AI_WAIFU#2844: Girl -> Popular
Boy -> The closest one can get to having an anime harem using modern technology
bmk#1476: on the one hand, the fact that this exists is kinda amazing from a technological standpoint |
axiom#3599: Well if vtuber generation is entirely algorithmic, it’s just a slider somewhere
bmk#1476: and also this is cyberpunk as fuck
bmk#1476: but also this is, well, degenerate as fuck too
bmk#1476: holy fuck you're not joking?
bmk#1476: you're *actually* planning on becoming a vtuber
bmk#1476: huh
axiom#3599: why not?
AI_WAIFU#2844: I've done some streams before, but I had to shelve it temporarily.
bmk#1476: do boy vtubers build ~~harems~~ fanbases too? o.O
AI_WAIFU#2844: I'll probably start in earnest in a month or two
axiom#3599: You don’t want to roleplay with weebs on the internet and get paid to play video games?
bmk#1476: thought the supply/demand ratio there would be.. different
bmk#1476: lol you should do research vtubing
bmk#1476: a whole new genre
AI_WAIFU#2844: That's litterally the plan
bmk#1476: become the first vtuber to publish a paper
bmk#1476: lol
axiom#3599: omg lets do it
bmk#1476: *y e s*
bmk#1476: i dont care how degenerate it is |
bmk#1476: this needs to happen
AI_WAIFU#2844: Eluther becomes a bunch of anime catgirls/catboys streaming their coding efforts.
bmk#1476: ok too far
bmk#1476: one is enough
axiom#3599: :doodoo:
axiom#3599: join us
AI_WAIFU#2844: > I don't care how degenerate it is
I sentence later
> Ok too far.
axiom#3599: :snuffySMUGGERED:
bmk#1476: i can only hold my nose for *one* vtuber
bmk#1476: if eleuther starts getting taken over by vtubers im burning it to the ground
axiom#3599: :fijiCry:
axiom#3599: don’t burn us to the ground
AI_WAIFU#2844: This is what happens when Connor isn't around.
axiom#3599: :Ryukosip:
bmk#1476: connor is going to murder all of yall, then murder me for not putting a stop to it half an hour ago lol
AI_WAIFU#2844: They do, I've seen it. Then all the female vtubers shill for them.
bmk#1476: huh
bmk#1476: learn something new every day |
axiom#3599: boys are better to listen to anyways
AI_WAIFU#2844: Disagree
axiom#3599: higher pitched voices get fatiguing sometimes
bmk#1476: the best voice is a gender-ambiguous voice that's low enough to not be annoying but still somewhere in between so youre not 100% sure
bmk#1476: cmv
axiom#3599: ^
axiom#3599: :whatislove:
bmk#1476: pls
chill with the emotes
AI_WAIFU#2844: Nah, I prefer explictly female voices.
axiom#3599: okie okie
bmk#1476: that's only useful if youre looking for something to simp to.. oh.
AI_WAIFU#2844: ^
StellaAthena#3530: What does “simp” mean?
axiom#3599: yes, female voices are only useful to simp over, you heard it here first
axiom#3599: it’s short for simpering
StellaAthena#3530: What does simpering mean
bmk#1476: i dont personally actually like or use the term in normal dialogue but it seemed fitting for this discussion
AI_WAIFU#2844: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Simp |
bmk#1476: for the record i dont think i ever have or will use the word unironically
axiom#3599: it’s someone who tries too hard to ingratiate themselves with someone
bmk#1476: i dislike the term for multiple reasons
AI_WAIFU#2844: Meaning has been expanded to include giving any attention or anything positive to the opposite sex or anyone for that matter.
StellaAthena#3530: That’s way less misogenystic than I had assumed
AI_WAIFU#2844: I simp for x
StellaAthena#3530: God I hate that word
StellaAthena#3530: Misogynistic?
AI_WAIFU#2844: It's actually a lot more mysandrist if you think about it.
bmk#1476: if anything, it's mostly used to attack, er, less *romantically successful* men
axiom#3599: basically the idea is that you aren’t interacting with someone because they make good content or are entertaining
bmk#1476: (not using the word incel because it has other connotations)
axiom#3599: so i think the underlying sentiment is pretty misogynistic
AI_WAIFU#2844: It was originally directed at men who spend too much money on e-girls.
AI_WAIFU#2844: Or other objects of their affection like crushes
AI_WAIFU#2844: Actually reverse the order of that.
StellaAthena#3530: So the term isn’t misogynistic, but the behavior it describes can be
axiom#3599: but most directly it’s derogatory towards the typically male person who is the “simp”
AI_WAIFU#2844: Yeah, I don't see anything mysogynistic about the term.
StellaAthena#3530: I was genuinely just asking |
StellaAthena#3530: I had seen it used a couple times online and didn’t have a clue what it meant
axiom#3599: i think there’s latent misogyny alot of times you see the term used
axiom#3599: And contempt for female online content creators
axiom#3599: imo
bmk#1476: ive never felt it used that way, at least in the places ive heard it
bmk#1476: disclaimer that i usually hear about hte word in a non-content-creator sense
AI_WAIFU#2844: But I think its not suprising that the people who attack men for giving to the opposite sex also get mad at the opposite sex for getting from men.
axiom#3599: i mean alot of people use it in a very self aware and joking way at this point
AI_WAIFU#2844: They just don't like the exchange that's happening.
AI_WAIFU#2844: Yup, hence why I can be a self-described simp for vtubers
axiom#3599: meee toooooo
axiom#3599: i was just giving @StellaAthena some context
StellaAthena#3530: Much like how I describe myself as Taco Cohen fangirl
StellaAthena#3530: Oh riling these people up is so much fun
bmk#1476: i think these people are in large part responsible for the radicalization of less romantically successful men into incels
axiom#3599: i mean incels have been a thing for at least 10 years online
bmk#1476: i mean just the general attitude
bmk#1476: not necessarily the exact word
bmk#1476: accusing people of simping has existed long before the word was coined, right?
axiom#3599: perhaps |
AI_WAIFU#2844: I think there's a simpler explanation: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/799908636763750430/iu.png
axiom#3599: i think it’s hard to reduce something like that to a single cause
bmk#1476: ok, not single cause, but a major one
axiom#3599: even still
bmk#1476: time to register whathappenedin2010 dot com
axiom#3599: idk why people end up an incel
StellaAthena#3530: What’s GSS
axiom#3599: I’m sure it’s not a one size fits all kind of thing
AI_WAIFU#2844: 2007 and it was the smartphone
bmk#1476: lol
AI_WAIFU#2844: IIRC General social survery
bmk#1476: https://gss.norc.org/
StellaAthena#3530: I wonder why it skyrocketed like that
bmk#1476: these numbers suggest something else interesting too
AI_WAIFU#2844: My primary hypotheis is opportunity cost.
StellaAthena#3530: What’s the opportunity cost of having sex
bmk#1476: the ratio of female to male sex flipped
AI_WAIFU#2844: Not shitposting on the internet
dopa#3178: time.
AI_WAIFU#2844: And money |
bmk#1476: :guilty:
AI_WAIFU#2844: Having sex is an expensive and time consuming endeavor
StellaAthena#3530: When the average man lasts for more than ten minutes I’ll believe that
AI_WAIFU#2844: lmao
axiom#3599: imagine orgasming from sex
axiom#3599: *must be nice*
bmk#1476: im starting to think maybe this conversation should move to #off-topic
AI_WAIFU#2844: But basically, the alternatives to having sex have gotten much better. So people put in much less effort. Which leads to a shitter dating market, which further drives up cost/benefit ratio, which leads to a catastrophic spiral of virginity.
axiom#3599: That seems plausible
AI_WAIFU#2844: At least that's my leading hypotheis.
bmk#1476: or maybe people are just becoming more socially inept
axiom#3599: these trends have been happening in Japan for way longer
AI_WAIFU#2844: Becoming more socially inept is part of the driving up of the cost/benefit ratio
axiom#3599: US seems to be following
StellaAthena#3530: Japan has a massive cofounder in terms of demographics though
bmk#1476: (i should know, because that's me)
dopa#3178: I was on training with senior law enforcement officers like some 30+ experience, on lunch it was discussion that compare to "old time" new recruits are substantially less socially adapt
StellaAthena#3530: I’m sure China has been having trends like this for 30 years
bmk#1476: Wouldn't be surprised if it were true but reserving judgment until I see hard numbers
StellaAthena#3530: Every once in a while I get reminded that there are people on the internet who aren’t approximately my age and it makes me feel weird |
axiom#3599: i think the financial precariousness young people face today in comparison to the past explains it to some degree?
bmk#1476: Or just like the existence of the internet
dopa#3178: social media and phones changed a lot how we interact socially, at least this my understanding
axiom#3599: tell me more about this social interaction thing
axiom#3599: i’ve read about it in the history books
axiom#3599: eye contact you say!
axiom#3599: *fascinating*
StellaAthena#3530: But then you also see an explosion in internet sex work
StellaAthena#3530: Read that as fornicating at first
axiom#3599: LMAO
AI_WAIFU#2844: Again, the alternatives to having sex have gotten much better.
bmk#1476: oh god no eye contact scares me
thankfully ive never partaken in it so im fine
StellaAthena#3530: Taking my clothes off on the internet is better than sex?
dopa#3178: I noticed my self that wearing mask I pay substantially more time to peoples eyes 😦
bmk#1476: cant imagine living in þe olde days and actually having to look at other people's eyeballs
StellaAthena#3530: I will never understand normie sexual habits
AI_WAIFU#2844: Once you factor in the costs, for many people it probably is.
StellaAthena#3530: Every conversation I have about this just reinforces that more |
axiom#3599: ????? @StellaAthena
bmk#1476: I will never understand normie ~~sexual~~ habits
axiom#3599: are normies the ones online?
StellaAthena#3530: Normies are the people who make up the trends that @AI_WAIFU is discussing
dopa#3178: I can spend months at time in front of computer, without going outside
dopa#3178: like 6 month easy for me
StellaAthena#3530: Me too, but I can have sex while doing that
bmk#1476: Normies don't even care about the inevitable imminent paperclippization of the universe smh
axiom#3599: i think most normies like physical interaction with their sex
StellaAthena#3530: Lol
axiom#3599: @bmk srsly
dopa#3178: I noticed, my mind forget how to speak after a while lol
AI_WAIFU#2844: ^
dopa#3178: like going in a store, I have to but effort to speak up, think about it lol
axiom#3599: my vitamin D hit zero and i had to take these massive pills
StellaAthena#3530: By “normie” I meant something more like “people who don’t have intense and crippling interpersonal issues brought on by years of sexual abuse”
axiom#3599: ah
StellaAthena#3530: *\*shrug\**
axiom#3599: idk it’s alien to me also
StellaAthena#3530: *\*fist bumps\** |
axiom#3599: \**bump*\*
axiom#3599: How does escaping even work lul
axiom#3599: got it!
AI_WAIFU#2844: I think an other facet of it is internet enabled specialization. When everyone is in the same village, everyone is on the same page, so relations between men and women are easier. But with the internet, everyone can specialize in what they care about. So finding someone sufficently "like you" can become difficult.
axiom#3599: if i’m not at a uni or like a software company or an open source ai discord i feel like im alone in the universe
bmk#1476: ~~Ok so uh back to the eleuther-chan project, how will we bludgeon all of these issues to create the greatest autonomous vtuber of All Time~~
dopa#3178: it is also option to deal less with people in person
axiom#3599: have you seen the movie Her?
axiom#3599: i liked that movie
AI_WAIFU#2844: I haven't
AI_WAIFU#2844: Ironically.
axiom#3599: really?
axiom#3599: Wanna?
AI_WAIFU#2844: Yup, same with ex machina
axiom#3599: It’s research
bmk#1476: ~~only in #research then~~
axiom#3599: I’m gonna set up a Her and Ex Machina movie night
AI_WAIFU#2844: I'll get around to it eventually...
StellaAthena#3530: I haven’t either
axiom#3599: we should voice clone scarlet johansen for the ai vtuber |
dopa#3178: also add westworld to that list
axiom#3599: i never really got into westworld, ive seen a bit
StellaAthena#3530: Alright bed time for me
kinoc#5731: My project is basically the Her OS but with access to a 1:1 scale model body (why I'm here...)
dopa#3178: UI and interaction with machines in westworld is so epic
AI_WAIFU#2844: I'm gonna second the sleep thing.
bmk#1476: Thirding sleep
axiom#3599: bye new friendos!
Daj#7482: ***C E A S E***
bmk#1476: uh oh
bmk#1476: party's over
Daj#7482: Go to bed
Daj#7482: ~~Codemiku is ok~~
Daj#7482: I mean, anime is a hyper stimulus, we must combat wire heading, we already lost the japanese
AI_WAIFU#2844: That's a weird way to spell "maximizing human values"
Daj#7482: Your human values ~~suck~~ are _WEAK!_
3dprint_the_world#6486: you may be surprised but I actually agree with this.
3dprint_the_world#6486: like I forced myself to sleep on the floor for a year
Daj#7482: The virgin anime catgirl vs the Chad hedonium shockwave
3dprint_the_world#6486: just to not be too comfortable |
Daj#7482: ok boomer
3dprint_the_world#6486: lol
3dprint_the_world#6486: but seriously
3dprint_the_world#6486: (I'm not recommending this for anyone of course)
AI_WAIFU#2844: Ok but fr I need sleep
3dprint_the_world#6486: of course after that I immediately went and bought an expensive mattress
3dprint_the_world#6486: I guess we all succumb to comfort
3dprint_the_world#6486: oh and I also type in Dvorak
3dprint_the_world#6486: I can't believe you all are awake right now
Daj#7482: I just woke up. Anime hour is over
3dprint_the_world#6486: ah right
3dprint_the_world#6486: here it's just 9:30 pm
andyljones#7746: spent two years typing in dvorak, changed back to qwerty, turns out 90% of the speedup was from unlearning all my shitty teenage typing habits and little to do with the layout at all
3dprint_the_world#6486: I alternate between both
3dprint_the_world#6486: when I'm writing text it's usually in dvorak, and when I'm coding I usually go to qwerty
3dprint_the_world#6486: at this point I think I'm equally fast in both, but I still like dvorak because of less finger movement
3dprint_the_world#6486: I agree that typing speed doesn't really have much to do with layout, more how much you practise
3dprint_the_world#6486: my favourite part about dvorak is having someone over to my computer and having them type and seeing them question their reality
chilli#5665: how fast do you guys type?
chilli#5665: I've often considered switching to dvorak, but it seems like such a pain in the ass |
chilli#5665: and also I'm already a pretty fast typer
triggerhappygandi#0001: Why would you want to switch tho
triggerhappygandi#0001: And unlearn all that habit
chilli#5665: just cause I type a lot
chilli#5665: so if it provides benefits then seems worth it over my lifetime
triggerhappygandi#0001: How does a different layout help
triggerhappygandi#0001: Looks kinda similar but yet somewhat arbitrary to qwerty
chilli#5665: reduce strain on wrists/fingers
triggerhappygandi#0001: _huh_
triggerhappygandi#0001: I would like to test it
andyljones#7746: 90 wpm-ish?
andyljones#7746: it's such a pain in the ass and it's not worth it
chilli#5665: I see
chilli#5665: I think i've always been a pretty fast typer
chilli#5665: so dvorak hasn't tempted me thaaat much
chilli#5665: I feel like all the people I know who type dvorak are among the slower typers in their friend group
chilli#5665: lol
StellaAthena#3530: As a kid I figured out how to bypass the computer controls and play games during typing class
StellaAthena#3530: Never really learned to type well
nz#9710: typing class? |
kip#6104: is there a peer-review paper journal that works based on disagreement?
Noori#4805: hi! 😬
Sid#2121: you... had typing class?
Sid#2121: what kinda school did you go to, lmao
Singularity#9001: 100-110wpm, I think I learned to type fast because of Minecraft chat, I wanted to respond to something in the chat before people moved on, so it was a reinforcing loop to get fast
StellaAthena#3530: @Sid public school in the US in the 00s?
StellaAthena#3530: We had a “computer lab” and once a week we’d go spend an hour doing typing exercises
StellaAthena#3530: Not sure if this is what you’re looking for, but some journals in philosophy, literary criticism, critical theory, and related fields exist to solicit controversial or outrageous takes. Not in the sense of “trying to stir up trouble” but in the sense that the fields benefit from having journals with looser editorial standards that give people a venue to try out more half-baked or slightly quacky ideas and see how they go over.
bmk#1476: Dissapointed that typing class is not going through python code and adding type annotations
Deleted User#0000: I had those computer classes too, it vaguely helped point me towards touch typing, but I learned to hit 90+ later on msn and irc. in a later year there was this big project in SketchUp and I turned into a middle school TA. helped everyone else instead of doing mine.
Daj#7482: MMOs and IRC are the true typing classes
bmk#1476: And discord
bmk#1476: Surprisingly, i type much slower then almost everyone i know
Deleted User#0000: discord is where you go after you learned, after all everyone is the same age
bmk#1476: I still do hunt and peck lol
Deleted User#0000: in high school I played dwarf fortress instead of something in autocad. they weren't happy when I started learning how windows works during class though.
Daj#7482: DF? Damn pretty hardcore
StellaAthena#3530: Windows work by cutting holes in things and letting light though
Daj#7482: We just played DOOM
StellaAthena#3530: I too would be worried if you were a higher schooler who didn’t know that |
mick#2835: Huh, so *everyone* played videogames during autocad class?
bmk#1476: I too enjoy cutting holes in school computers
Daj#7482: Wow weird that it took Bill Gates so long to invent it
Daj#7482: Did anyone do what the teacher wanted in CS lab?
bmk#1476: Did he take invent it tho? Is Windows invented or discovered?
mick#2835: There was a teacher??
Daj#7482: Once I wrote a batch script that created infinite nested folders
Daj#7482: I was the king god hacker that day
StellaAthena#3530: I legit had no idea that’s what she meant by “Windows” rotfl
mick#2835: lol this is practically nostalgia
bmk#1476: What is this "windows"
bmk#1476: Never used it before
StellaAthena#3530: Y’know those plebs who use Linux? It’s the baby version of that
Deleted User#0000: we had the bright idea to boot into a linux thumb drive to see if we could find any network passwords in the other drive. it... kind of worked? we weren't sure what we had, but we weren't supposed to know it.
Daj#7482: Imagine not using raw GPIO written to RAM
bmk#1476: Fucking Linux users, not using the True Unix
bmk#1476: Linux is basically shitty bootleg Unix smh
Daj#7482: If I may interject...
bmk#1476: Fuck Linux all my mainframe homies use Unix
Deleted User#0000: I'm sure your editor of choice is ed as well |
bmk#1476: Magnetic needle and steady hand
Deleted User#0000: ~~when they said to make organizations like bell labs that's not what they meant~~
Deleted User#0000: ...so this venturebeat article popped up on my google feed but it's paywalled. when did that happen?
Daj#7482: https://justpaste.it/5y2y4
Here's an unpaywalled copy
Daj#7482: I was approached by the journalist like a week ago, article went out yesterday
Daj#7482: He basically just verbatim copied everything I told him so I guess it's an ok article lol
Deleted User#0000: fair enough
Deleted User#0000: thanks
3dprint_the_world#6486: yes this is exactly it for me. It reduces strain by a lot, especially when typing for long periods.
3dprint_the_world#6486: but for coding, I've found that dvorak and qwerty produce roughly equal strain.
Kyler#9100: vscode- nano if i'm lazy-
3dprint_the_world#6486: my typing speed fluctuates. Back when I was writing my thesis I got around 90 WPM
3dprint_the_world#6486: Nowadays I'm around 70 WPM
Kyler#9100: holy shit- i only got 92 when i was high on korean americanos-
Kyler#9100: usually i'm at 70-
bmk#1476: I'm lucky if i can hit like 30
Kyler#9100: my biggest weakness that prevents me from going to like 100 is my hand position, because my right hand is weak and i use my left hand to compensate-
Kyler#9100: i don't use my last 2 fingers on my right hand often unless for backspace-
Bedebao#4842: I wonder how azerty fits in this. |
Bedebao#4842: Cause that's what I use, what with being a frog.
bmk#1476: lol i just did a test, 51 wpm with 90% accuracy
bmk#1476: that's higher than i was expecting
bmk#1476: :smallbrain: azerty
:bigbrain: qwertz
Kyler#9100: I wonder what the applications of a model like GPT Neo are to fighting climate change-
Bedebao#4842: The thing with the expanding brain meme is that it can be amazingly ambiguous. The low brain thing can be a normal thing while the galaxy brain thing can be ridiculous and vice versa.
Bedebao#4842: It's like virgin vs chad.
bmk#1476: that's an advantage as far as im concerned
Kyler#9100: yeah-
Kyler#9100: i love those memes
Bedebao#4842: I have a friend who is also a fervent enthusiast of Virgin vs Chad memes.
triggerhappygandi#0001: That's still like 20 faster than me.
gwern#1782: people are very wary of journalists, but they can be powerful allies precisely because they're so lazy. same thing happened with This Fursona Does Not Exist
chilli#5665: I'm around 130-140 or so
jin kazama#3736: hello all, new here, ok to ask technical questions?
Sid#2121: This server is not tech help
Sid#2121: https://github.com/EleutherAI/info
Sid#2121: hello, also 👋
StellaAthena#3530: Welcome :) |
What do you mean by technical? “Help with my code” or “technical questions about AI” or what?
AI_WAIFU#2844: I mean we generally accept both unless their stupid questions.
bmk#1476: Also there is generally more lenience for people who are more committed to eleuther
bmk#1476: I'm much more willing to help someone if they've been around for a bit and/or have contributed to something than if they just showed up and started asking questions
IKEA#9631: something something bépo
AI_WAIFU#2844: One thing that might be interesting to measure would be the "autocorrelation time" of a language model. E.g. If you just set it off rambling, how does the mutual information between tokens decay as a function of the distance between those tokens.
Sparkette#4342: Anyone else think "ClosedAI" would be a funny name for us? Like as an ironic joke about OpenAI
Sparkette#4342: Not saying we should change our name ofc
Sparkette#4342: Just saying it would be funny
Sparkette#4342: Sort of like how /r/marijuanaenthusiasts is about trees
bmk#1476: unfortunately, the joke is way way too overused
gwern#1782: there's the more refined ClopenAI
bmk#1476: but that implies that either we're trivial or the space is disconnected
gwern#1782: I sure do feel trivial and disconnected sometimes, sounds apt
Deleted User#0000: Hi.
Deleted User#0000: First time here. Interesting project. Lots of merit.
Deleted User#0000: Is this something akin to deepwalk?
jin kazama#3736: thanks you saved some time
bmk#1476: @Deleted User hey! are you a SWE/researcher? |
axiom#3599: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800229283283992576/image0.jpg
axiom#3599: This keyboard has been the best thing for my typing speed btw
bmk#1476: so youre in the ultra minimalist keyboards club
bmk#1476: interestingly, ive been thinking of going the other direction
bmk#1476: i have a low-build-quality mx blue keeb rn
axiom#3599: I have full size keebs too
bmk#1476: i was thinking of getting a better keeb
bmk#1476: and then making this my auxillary keeb
axiom#3599: It’s the fact that it’s ortholinear
bmk#1476: where i map each key to some shortcut
bmk#1476: so i can have *twice the keeb*
bmk#1476: key maximalism
bmk#1476: i even rigged up a script to bind things to individual keyboard keys
bmk#1476: like, making it so "A" on one keeb is bound but the other "A" key still works as a normal key
axiom#3599: Custom keebs nowadays are programmable
bmk#1476: no i mean
bmk#1476: i did it in software
bmk#1476: because my current keeb is kinda bad (and so isnt programmable)
bmk#1476: and i dont wanna spend even more money buying more keebs
axiom#3599: I understand |
axiom#3599: but if the behavior is flashed to the board it’s plug and go anywhere
bmk#1476: also it works with dirt cheap membranes too
bmk#1476: so i can have *thousands of keys*
bmk#1476: bold of you to assume i go anywhere
bmk#1476: i mean i only use a few different devices so i can just install the script on all the machines i care about
axiom#3599: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800230454451503134/image0.jpg,https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800230455131635722/video1.mov
axiom#3599: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800230870912466974/video0.mov
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800231045198381096/IMG_20210116_221207.jpg
bmk#1476: it's literally falling apart
axiom#3599: lol but what if you want to go from your bedroom computer to your kitchen computer
bmk#1476: i only own one computer but it's a big honking computer
axiom#3599: Can we start a fund to get @bmk a new keyboard?
bmk#1476: hey i mean it works perfectly fine
axiom#3599: :snuffyded:
bmk#1476: and they *are* genuine™ blues
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800231709370220554/IMG_20210116_221438.jpg
bmk#1476: so as long as it keeps clicking i see no reason to change it, except maybe to turn it into an auxillary shortcut board for MOAR KEEB
axiom#3599: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800231999410274314/image0.png
axiom#3599: i like halo clears
bmk#1476: what do they do |
bmk#1476: are they heavier/lighter and clickier/notclickier
bmk#1476: than blues
axiom#3599: They’re way chunkier
tacobell#5171: if the keys don't stick it's better than mac keyboards
bmk#1476: by chunky you mean high actuation force?
axiom#3599: Yeah
bmk#1476: ..nah not the right switch for me
axiom#3599: And they have a bump
tacobell#5171: mine is sticking and there's no easy fix 😭
bmk#1476: my ideal switch is blues but slightly lower actuation force
axiom#3599: like a ramp up in the actuation force
axiom#3599: i mean there are like 10-30 common switches
axiom#3599: depending on your cutoff for common
axiom#3599: i’m sure there’s a switch you’d like better than blues
bmk#1476: im a cherry normie
bmk#1476: as far as im aware there are like 5 different switches
mick#2835: I still have the same Dell keyboard from the 90s
axiom#3599: :aniWhy:
mick#2835: With the weird round purple plug and the Nokia level indestructibility
bmk#1476: @axiom how many anime reacts do you *have* |
axiom#3599: i literally collect them
bmk#1476: my question stands
axiom#3599: maybe around 500
axiom#3599: ugh, maybe around 1000
bmk#1476: o.O
axiom#3599: @bmk, you’d probably like box jades
axiom#3599: https://novelkeys.xyz/products/novelkeys-x-kailh-box-thick-clicks
axiom#3599: or the navys
axiom#3599: if you spend your whole life at a keyboard, why wouldn’t you optimize that experience :bearKeyboard:
AI_WAIFU#2844: And here I am working off of a 7 year old laptop rn.
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800235333278236672/unknown.png
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800235352853839913/unknown.png
bmk#1476: looks perfect
bmk#1476: lol https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800235500585222154/unknown.png
IKEA#9631: I have a 6yo PC and a cheap "semi-mechanical" keyboard that came in a kit lol
mick#2835: Lol. *this is why we can't have nice things intensifies*
bmk#1476: buy yourself a desktop
bmk#1476: laptops suck'
bmk#1476: or at least one of those laptop stands and a seperate keeb
AI_WAIFU#2844: I already have a desktop, but hauling it around is kinda not an option rn. |
bmk#1476: are you, like, a digital nomad?
bmk#1476: if so, mad props, that's the life
AI_WAIFU#2844: I'm a lot of things. Digital nomad is sometimes an accurate description, other times it's not.
bmk#1476: i mean, it's the *plague times*
bmk#1476: hauling stuff around during the plague times? not my first choice
AI_WAIFU#2844: Yeah, the quarantine requirements make that especially annoying at the moment.
axiom#3599: https://www.amazon.com/Switches-Water-proof-Compatible-Machine-Keyboard/dp/B08H8H7CQ3
axiom#3599: They’re on amazon now, you can get them if you really want them lol
bmk#1476: ill look into it for sure
bmk#1476: *adds to enormous list of things to do*
bmk#1476: also lol https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800243422165860362/unknown.png
bmk#1476: but yeah i probably wont get around to anything keeb related for a bit
bmk#1476: im unfortunately swamped with things to do
axiom#3599: one day!
axiom#3599: i want a self-driving solar powered rv to traverse the charred wastelands of america
axiom#3599: https://www.canoo.com/
AI_WAIFU#2844: I see the cybertruck aesthetic is gaining traction.
AI_WAIFU#2844: Too bad it's only mildly more aerodynamic than a brick.
nz#9710: yea I really don't get why they're pushing those designs (it's not just tesla) for electric
nz#9710: I feel like they would be more popular as well if they looked just like normal cars, but were electric |
axiom#3599: signalling i guess?
CRG#8707: DALL-E API on the horizon? https://twitter.com/theaievangelist/status/1350121967286939648
Bedebao#4842: Surprising, considering their fear of AI getting misused. Images can be much more dangerous than text.
zphang#7252: isn't CLIP public though?
CRG#8707: They might be planning to use CLIP for censoring.
paws#3311: Taking memes to the next level with the dall-e api
triggerhappygandi#0001: I honestly didn't expect anything else
mgostIH#0245: It's not dangerous when they can make money out of it :IContributeToTheCPPStandard:
cfoster0#4356: Not the model they evaluated with in most of the paper
cfoster0#4356: They released the BERT Base sized one but have held onto their BERT Large sized one. I suspect they may have one even bigger in their pocket
triggerhappygandi#0001: That model is public tho
triggerhappygandi#0001: The ViT-L/14 something
cfoster0#4356: So this issue is wrong? 🤔 https://github.com/openai/CLIP/issues/2
triggerhappygandi#0001: My bad
triggerhappygandi#0001: The colab runs with the "ViT-B/32"
triggerhappygandi#0001: 😅
thenightocean#6100: might be they are scared of us replicating it soon anyway, so no point on keeping it secret.
Sid#2121: well, no one's really working on CLIP, but since it's all public it shouldn't be hard to replicate
Sid#2121: once we have the dataset, lol
triggerhappygandi#0001: Locking things once, I get it; money is necessary. But all the time? |
triggerhappygandi#0001: :angrysutton:
Louis#0144: hey dweebs
Louis#0144: hows it going
triggerhappygandi#0001: Your duck is cringe@Louis
triggerhappygandi#0001: Mine is superior
Louis#0144: its a goose
Louis#0144: wtf
triggerhappygandi#0001: Mine is superior
triggerhappygandi#0001: End of discussion:gameryes:
bmk#1476: goose is superior because it is canadian
bmk#1476: canadian geese are not to be fucked with
triggerhappygandi#0001: Duck is superior
triggerhappygandi#0001: :empiricism:
triggerhappygandi#0001: What's _not_ to be fucked with, is moose.
Sid#2121: that's a fucking ugly eagle
3dprint_the_world#6486: there's no such thing as a duck
3dprint_the_world#6486: but seriously: ducks aren't a monophyletic group
triggerhappygandi#0001: Are you saying I don't exist
3dprint_the_world#6486: The family Anatidae is a monophyletic group, but it includes swans, geese, and various families of birds collectively known as ducks
triggerhappygandi#0001: It's true. I'm your schizophrenia |
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800453189798592522/shutterstock_110882330.png
triggerhappygandi#0001: Weird sparrow
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800453358573191208/3a2ef413e717cb5875810187575ace7e.png
3dprint_the_world#6486: what's even more silly is people who think loons are a kind of duck
mick#2835: those loons
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800453447589298176/636601879148177130-canada-goos-attack.png
3dprint_the_world#6486: they are in a completely separate family: Gaviidae
Louis#0144: oh god
Louis#0144: PTGD
bmk#1476: lol
Louis#0144: post traumatic goose disorder
3dprint_the_world#6486: anyway, sorry for the umpteenth taxonomy rant of mine
Louis#0144: ive been bitten so many times
3dprint_the_world#6486: I should figure by now no one here is interested in taxonomy
bmk#1476: all in favor of creating a #geese?
Louis#0144: ;-;
triggerhappygandi#0001: Mfw no #duck
triggerhappygandi#0001: :zucc:
triggerhappygandi#0001: :ptsd:
Singularity#9001: Guck is what you get when you combine geese and ducks |
Singularity#9001: #geeseworship
Singularity#9001: A rlly old goose is called a geeser
triggerhappygandi#0001: Cheese is what you get when you combine a chimp and a lot of geese
mick#2835: So that's why cheese pizza can't be vegan?
bmk#1476: javascript is what you get when you combine multiple cups of java and crippling depression
mick#2835: Why do I immediately want to believe that's a true story?
bmk#1476: Because it probably is
3dprint_the_world#6486: ah, the 90's. When the future was Java.
triggerhappygandi#0001: We will say this about python in 2040
nz#9710: it still is
nz#9710: all my university courses are in java
nz#9710: https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/583107506390171710.gif?v=1
Igor Krawczuk#1653: *depression caused by not your boss not allowing you to implement a LISP like all your hipster friends
Igor Krawczuk#1653: and good riddance
thenightocean#6100: and all the cool kids will use hoon
mick#2835: Yes please can we just go back to actually just coding what we want the computer to do instead of obsessively trying to "make it easier" until it's so *easy* that you have to read entire books of manuals run the build tools?
3dprint_the_world#6486: sarcasm?
mick#2835: It's more like ambivalence I think.
3dprint_the_world#6486: I'm not going back to C coding thankyouverymuch
3dprint_the_world#6486: getting into arguments with people who use ifdefs instead of version control is not how I want to be spending my finite time on this planet |
mick#2835: Fuck those people.
mick#2835: They are trying to make artificial rules on top of the actual rules which is just as bad in concept as the problem with trying to make things so easy they become hard in a different way.
mick#2835: Except their half ass bullshit version is trash so it's just worse completely.
mick#2835: The only valid use of #ifdef is basically hacking around compiler specific nonsense that shouldn't exist
mick#2835: C++ templates are like the poster child of "how making life easier makes life harder"
mick#2835: However, at some point I realized this goose chase for easier high level languages can't work and is just a way for us programmers to procrastinate and take breaks from actual work while pretending we're still working on something useful. So I abandoned all C++ "best practices" and started using C++ like C and my productivity is up by orders of magnitude both at work and in hobbies.
mick#2835: Basically fuck anyone telling you how to code at all.
3dprint_the_world#6486: that's fine if you're working solo
3dprint_the_world#6486: the problem is when you have a bunch of people working on a project.
mick#2835: Okay hold up, I hear this line literally every time but I've tested it in real life.
bmk#1476: Python is the best
nz#9710: python gang
thenightocean#6100: argue as much as you like, but we all now how this will end. With the ultimate Unfriendly AGI being written in javascript.
mick#2835: I noticed that my coders were wasting ridiculous amounts of time screwing with complicated templates, so I straight up put "no C++ templates" into the style guide at work as an experiment, and every programmer complained like hell but also productivity went up as measured by the amount of hours not spent working on infrastructure that didn't directly implement a feature and that would be later refactored before even seeing a single reuse.
mick#2835: Hilariously, I wrote a neural net engine in pure JS using WebGL for the math and it's the nicest codebase I've worked with for NNs 🤣
IKEA#9631: Relevant https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800463418897203220/unknown.jpeg
3dprint_the_world#6486: ok so you tried to fix bad coding practices with even worse coding practices
mick#2835: You're obviously in a mood to argue. Bye.
3dprint_the_world#6486: how about 'no overengineering' as a rule
bmk#1476: I dislike the message of this genre of complaints tbh |
3dprint_the_world#6486: yeah it's bs
bmk#1476: Hardware is cheap
IKEA#9631: It's a meme
bmk#1476: There are people who argue this unironically
bmk#1476: A lot, actually
3dprint_the_world#6486: I've heard this kind of argument "oh everything's so bloattteddddd!" so many times and it's bullshit
bmk#1476: It's the prevalent opinion in some circles like hn
IKEA#9631: I mean sometimes it really is
thenightocean#6100: http://www.paulgraham.com/hundred.html
"What programmers in a hundred years will be looking for, most of all, is a language where you can throw together an unbelievably inefficient version 1 of a program with the least possible effort. At least, that's how we'd describe it in present-day terms. What they'll say is that they want a language that's easy to program in.
Inefficient software isn't gross. What's gross is a language that makes programmers do needless work. Wasting programmer time is the true inefficiency, not wasting machine time. This will become ever more clear as computers get faster.
"
IKEA#9631: Not everyone has a i9 with 64 gb of ram and a 3090
mick#2835: ^ literally thinking it's fine to waste computer resources because *you* have a ton of extra is directly oppressing underprivileged people who can't afford to get into CS because you need gigs upon gigs of ram for anything basic
3dprint_the_world#6486: modern programs are big because your needs are big. People look at the past with rose-tinted glasses imo.
bmk#1476: That computer costs less than the value of the amount of extra time that would be wasted
mick#2835: I'm afraid you literally believe that. :/
thenightocean#6100: I think there is enough room in the programming language world for the languages for the different use cases |
3dprint_the_world#6486: look at game music for example. Sure, you can make really small music files using tracker music, or even smaller files using pure FM synthesis. But it's irrelevant. If you want actual recorded music with vocals, the size is orders of magnitude larger.
3dprint_the_world#6486: that's just how it is.
3dprint_the_world#6486: and people want recorded music.
mick#2835: If you're actually making a point with that, then I'm missing it.
mick#2835: "You can make really small ice creams with less milk but people like big ice creams."
3dprint_the_world#6486: just going from a 64 bit architecture to an 8-bit architecture gives you 1/4 the exe size *for the exact same code*
3dprint_the_world#6486: but, again, irrelevant
chilli#5665: just jumping here, but developer productivity >> computer productivity
nz#9710: ye flops go :brr:
mick#2835: This is both not true, and a red herring of an argument.
mick#2835: Pointers aren't 100% of program code.
mick#2835: But like you said, it's irrelevant.
bmk#1476: The solution here is ubi, not increased program efficiency
mick#2835: So the solution is to blame the problem on someone else? Nice.
3dprint_the_world#6486: pointers are a *huge* part of machine code.
mick#2835: No dude we programmers can't just magically provide UBI for everyone, but we can write slightly more efficient code.
3dprint_the_world#6486: like, if you don't know this, I'm not even sure you're being serious.
mick#2835: Please stop trying to discredit others and "win" something here.
mick#2835: That's what I meant earlier when I said you're obviously in a mood to argue. We don't have to be enemies.
3dprint_the_world#6486: I'm not, I'm just kind of amazed that you're actually making this argument non-sarcastically and unironically |
mick#2835: Like yeah, I think Python is a big waste, but don't attack me for having that view ffs.
mick#2835: You don't have to eliminate views you don't agree with
nz#9710: wait mick are you seriously arguing writing inefficient code is oppression?
bmk#1476: This is going deep into Politrib territory
mick#2835: Jesus christ.
3dprint_the_world#6486: like I'm half-expecting you to jump out and say "lol j/k guys, the look on your faces"
nz#9710: I'm sorry if I misunderstood but I initially interpreted it as a joke/hyperbole
bmk#1476: I'm going to have to ask y'all to take it over to #off-topic
mick#2835: Yes, please take this opinion tangent to #off-topic, now what about the on-topic part of what I said?
mick#2835: Nobody chimed in on DeepSpeed vs L2L
mick#2835: (Because, remember, efficiency does actually matter after all lol.)
Louis#0144: found out today my CPU cooler fan died four months ago
Louis#0144: but like
Louis#0144: it was totally fine??
Louis#0144: I even ran long deep learning training sessions
mick#2835: Good case fans can do a lot.
Louis#0144: im buying a replacement fan
bmk#1476: I think this depends on which part of deepspeed you're thinking of
bmk#1476: I mean, L2L is generally orthogonal to most Deepspeed optimizations
bmk#1476: So i don't see any reason you can't have most of deepspeed + L2L |
bmk#1476: Obviously it would be nontrivial to implement and prevent clashes but it's certainly in theory possible
mick#2835: I need to learn more about DeepSpeed but I don't know where to find information. They seem to make claims and document APIs but I can't find where they detail on how it actually works.
bmk#1476: Deepspeed docs are kinda sparse yeah
StellaAthena#3530: There’s videos of conference presentations and workshops on YouTube which can be helpful. But there are also thinks we’ve had to pull up the GitHub repo and read the DeepSpeed source code to work out.
ibos#2815: when is the next ML revolution after DL?
ibos#2815: it's been over 6 years already since the last one
3dprint_the_world#6486: transformers not good enough for ya?
ibos#2815: not good enough for all of us
bmk#1476: the next (and also last) revolution is the paperclip revolution
3dprint_the_world#6486: tbh I think transformers are a bigger deal than the DL 'revolution'
ibos#2815: transformers are a compute parlor trick
Big Fat Duck#0266: its a trick that works
StellaAthena#3530: So is the fast Fourier transform and yet it changed the world.
ibos#2815: @Big Fat Duck doesn't really work for useful RL problems
ibos#2815: it's not going to get us to AGI
bmk#1476: > useful
> RL
pick one
StellaAthena#3530: Nothing works for useful RL problems because RL is not useful. |
Daj#7482: _Paul Christiano has entered the chat_
StellaAthena#3530: I should say deep RL. Shallow RL is hella useful and I use it at work every day.
ibos#2815: by RL I mean learning by reward and unsupervised learning
StellaAthena#3530: Then you have a different definition than the entirety of the field of machine learning and if you want to communicate with people I recommend adjusting your terminology.
3dprint_the_world#6486: human brains are a parlor trick
bmk#1476: what *isn't* a parlor trick
bmk#1476: start there
3dprint_the_world#6486: intelligence is a parlor trick
bmk#1476: name something that isn;t
Big Fat Duck#0266: google is investing heavily in reinforcement learning, i think that is their priority right now
StellaAthena#3530: Also, that’s false. Transformers have already made big impacts even outside of NLP.
StellaAthena#3530: And they’re revolutionized NLP. If you don’t think BERT changed the world it’s because you’re not working in NLP.
3dprint_the_world#6486: you don't know this.
StellaAthena#3530: Most of us disagree with this actually.
bmk#1476: what *is* going to get us to AGI? gary marcus' *symbolic methods*?
Big Fat Duck#0266: surely a massive hand curated .OWL knowledge base will get us to AGI
3dprint_the_world#6486: here's an alternate perspective: intelligence (either human or artificial) isn't mysterious, it all just boils down to finding general methods of making use of information in the environment and scaling this up (to 100 billion neurons in the case of human intelligence)
andyljones#7746: yes it does? 'stabilized transformers for reinforcement learning'
cognomen#6297: Schmidhuber, 1991
cfoster0#4356: :guilty: |
StellaAthena#3530: @ibos’s definition of “RL” also encompasses all of unsupervised learning FYI.
ibos#2815: transformers can't lead us to AGI because DL isn't example efficient enough and they don't have a structure complex enough to simulate a world model and improve on it recursively like we do when we imagine to solve complex problems, and they don't have the important property of sparse connections like humans, which enables us to build complex information out of simple information much better than dense networks (I don't mean fully dense)
ibos#2815: my opinion
Big Fat Duck#0266: i think AGI is a technology that will ultimately manifest in terms of how well it solves business problems and how much ROI it generates, it won't be assessed on whether it "knows" or is "is conscious" or whatever about it's internals, it will be assessed purely on its input and output
3dprint_the_world#6486: humans aren't example efficient enough
StellaAthena#3530: What is this magical property of sparse networks?
3dprint_the_world#6486: I mean come on, sitting there just pooping for 1.5 years before we can even say 'mama'
StellaAthena#3530: I also strongly believe that transformers are good for world modeling.
ibos#2815: Numenta has a few papers on it, you should read them
3dprint_the_world#6486: clearly human brains are not the path to AGI
andyljones#7746: lollllll
3dprint_the_world#6486: @ibos ahaha. You had me there for a minute.
3dprint_the_world#6486: good one
3dprint_the_world#6486: you successfully trolled us
bmk#1476: did someone say sample efficiency? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800507049544122388/unknown.png
cfoster0#4356: Also combining sparsity with transformers is clearly a possible path
cfoster0#4356: Whether the hardware gods will bless us with the right tech for that is another question
StellaAthena#3530: Is it good or bad that I don’t know who numeneta is
CRG#8707: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800507563682037860/c492c6409dff540953e975dbd018cd28.png
3dprint_the_world#6486: it's good. |
cognomen#6297: I wouldn't write them off, but I wouldn't hold my breath for them coming up with anything useful either
ibos#2815: they're working on explaining how the brain works and why it's good at what it does, not really on creating practical solutions or algorithms
3dprint_the_world#6486: to be fair, Numenta was way better than anything Gary Marcus has ever done
cfoster0#4356: Personal opinion: Numenta's new theories are ultimately pointing in similar directions as we're going
3dprint_the_world#6486: interesting, haven't kept up with them recently, links?
3dprint_the_world#6486: I honestly thought they went bust
bmk#1476: lolt https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800508297656533052/unknown.png
cfoster0#4356: https://numenta.com/blog/2019/01/16/the-thousand-brains-theory-of-intelligence/
andyljones#7746: they've been working on how the brain works for 15 years and have nuttin to show for it
3dprint_the_world#6486: wait so they're saying the brain is a MoE model?
bmk#1476: X - doubt
cognomen#6297: still conjecture
kindiana#1016: Society is just a big moe model
bmk#1476: still super skeptical about moe
Daj#7482: Hawkins was an early inspiration, I still have a soft spot for numenta, but they indeed have little to show
bmk#1476: ~~yeah and society as a whole is probably dumber than the median person because of all the insurmountable coordination problems~~
cfoster0#4356: Jeff is somewhat of a zealot for "doing it the brain way" as opposed to making things that work well in code and with our current hardware, it would seem
Daj#7482: I'm pretty sure a lot of numenta's things could work if scaled
Daj#7482: As far as those things are concrete enough to implement, at least
bmk#1476: > could work if scaled https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800509239448829952/8R9xGpL.png |
Daj#7482: :guilty:
StellaAthena#3530: Did we get promoted somewhere today? There’s a lot of newbies and I just checked and 700 people have visited our website today.
ibos#2815: someone posted this server invitation on yannic kilcher's server
ibos#2815: maybe they came from there
ibos#2815: I did at least
cfoster0#4356: Someone posted on r/ML as well
bmk#1476: link pls
StellaAthena#3530: Hmmm. That a) has happened before and b) doesn’t seem like it would promote our website. But it may be a factor.
bmk#1476: also i've added a new emoji at our disposal: :lurkmoar:
StellaAthena#3530: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800509948462628884/image0.png
cfoster0#4356: https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/kyzv0u/n_gpt3_replicate_as_open_source/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
StellaAthena#3530: I don’t see a Reddit post. Do yo7 have a link
ibos#2815: https://discord.gg/4H8xxDF
StellaAthena#3530: That’s received almost no attention. It definitely didn’t drive 700 people to our website today
nz#9710: I guess this is already taken into account right
nz#9710: https://venturebeat.com/2021/01/15/ai-weekly-meet-the-people-trying-to-replicate-and-open-source-openais-gpt-3/
bmk#1476: ~~time to brigade and downvote anything that mentions eleuther to maintain our Under the Radar status~~
bmk#1476: that aws 2 days ago so def not it
cognomen#6297: check some referrer headers
bmk#1476: also it's paywalled and it doesnt seem like there was that much engagement |
aquajet#7800: Was the ssc meetup today?
StellaAthena#3530: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800510378840817685/image0.png
bmk#1476: @StellaAthena is there any way you can add more people to view the analytics?
bmk#1476: https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1009702?hl=en
3dprint_the_world#6486: At first I loved Numenta, but then when it became clear it was mostly a vanity project by Hawkins and he actually wasn't that interested in making real progress, I changed my mind
StellaAthena#3530: Sure. I’m on my phone right now but I’ll do it tomorrow
3dprint_the_world#6486: apparently Dileep George felt the same way, hence him leaving to start Vicarious
StellaAthena#3530: How do you do this?
cognomen#6297: don't you have traffic logs?
nz#9710: I for one welcome numenta -- I don't expect anything major to come from them, but it's always some form of diversification, plus they seem to be a bit more constructive than marcus
Daj#7482: My subjective impression of Hawkins is very different. I think he's trying very earnestly and I like his way of thinking. I'd take him over a median Uni lab any day
3dprint_the_world#6486: Vicarious has done some interesting stuff, although lately they've been veering dangerously into "this is how the brain does it" territory
3dprint_the_world#6486: did you read their HTM whitepaper?
Daj#7482: Vicarious seems somewhat overconfident maybe but eh
Daj#7482: Yea?
StellaAthena#3530: We have a Google analytics account and that’s it
3dprint_the_world#6486: ok
3dprint_the_world#6486: just curious
ibos#2815: can someone please explain to me how a limited depth model (a transformer and generally speaking end to end differentiable models) would be able to recursively improve on computing an ideal output like humans do?
cognomen#6297: ah, right, static site on github |
bmk#1476: @StellaAthena there should be a thing for that in google analytics
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800511278782742538/unknown.png
Daj#7482: I've read all of numenta's stuff. Way more creative than even your median NeurIPS paper, I welcome the constructive idiosyncrasies
3dprint_the_world#6486: I feel like that's not what this discord is about, really.
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800511348970225714/unknown.png
AI_WAIFU#2844: This but without a shred of irony
3dprint_the_world#6486: @ibos there's plenty of resources out there to learn about ML
Daj#7482: We're not here to convince you of anything
StellaAthena#3530: @bmk Sure, that says we get mostly referrals
StellaAthena#3530: But that doesn’t say where the referrals are from
ibos#2815: I know, but you all ganged up on me when I attacked the transformer so I'm trying to understand it better. Maybe I'm wrong
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800511485264658462/unknown.png
3dprint_the_world#6486: interesting, any favorite examples?
Daj#7482: The brain is shallow too
bmk#1476: there might be more info if you go in?
3dprint_the_world#6486: just want to see your perspective
Daj#7482: 100ms of processing time at best
ibos#2815: I'm not here to force you to convince me
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800511606361817098/unknown.png
bmk#1476: yeah theres this little dropdown |
Daj#7482: I like the thousand brain theory conceptually
bmk#1476: if you set it to 'user source'
3dprint_the_world#6486: what do you like about it
bmk#1476: if thousand brain is basically moe, i really dislike it
bmk#1476: i dont think primarily-moe systems will be able to achieve the generalization we need
cognomen#6297: ah, hn'd
cognomen#6297: figures
Daj#7482: It tickles my subjective scientific hunch detector lol. It's one of those things that just feels useful to keep in the back of my mind to be useful later
3dprint_the_world#6486: I'm just trying to get your perspective here @Daj , tbh I think of you as a highly reasonable person so your perspective on Numenta is a slight cognitive dissonance for me
bmk#1476: no, this is for a different site
3dprint_the_world#6486: and I'm just trying to resolve that dissonance
bmk#1476: im just giving this as an example
bmk#1476: i dont have access to the ga
Daj#7482: I also like Wolfram didn't we have this discussion lol
3dprint_the_world#6486: I like Wolfram too
Daj#7482: I thought I remembered you hating him
3dprint_the_world#6486: nah I just think his physics stuff is hype/bs
Daj#7482: I haven't actually thought about numenta in a long time I might have to refresh my memory why I liked them
Daj#7482: I think they were one of the first groups that made me think about babble and prune type stuff
cfoster0#4356: I have a hunch there may be parallels between the "grid cells everywhere" idea and the work on positional encodings we're exploring |
3dprint_the_world#6486: maybe that's why, because I learned about the babble and prune stuff from way before Numenta
cognomen#6297: I get a kind of ted nelson/project xanadu vibe from numenta
Daj#7482: Yea
Daj#7482: I think numenta clued me in first to many of the ideas we're now exploring with transformers
3dprint_the_world#6486: yeah, I never thought of it that way but I agree
Sphinx#2092: My biggest gripe is that "Numenta" is one of those terms like "Neuromorphic" that when they come up in online discussion, it's usually people who don't know anything about ML.
3dprint_the_world#6486: oh really? that's *highly* interesting. Can you elaborate.
Daj#7482: Unfortunately very true lol
bmk#1476: ive never actually heard of numentia before lol
Daj#7482: Yesn't I'm actually tired as shit and it's 1am
3dprint_the_world#6486: lol ok
Daj#7482: Sorry haha
3dprint_the_world#6486: no worries
bmk#1476: c o n s c i o u s n e s s
StellaAthena#3530: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800513697524351016/image0.png
bmk#1476: huh, people are just googling us?
StellaAthena#3530: I don’t know what some of these sites are
Daj#7482: Excuse me, the Chinese room experiment has already proven AGI is impossible so paperclip maximizer cannot happen
StellaAthena#3530: I sorta don’t believe that 900 people viewed us directly.
Daj#7482: What's "revue newsletter"? |
StellaAthena#3530: 500 new visitors from voltrure beat surprises me
bmk#1476: "sir, the chinese room experiment proves that it's impossible"
"that's *exactly* what the chinese want us to think"
StellaAthena#3530: Oh, we were mentioned in some newsletter as a throwaway line
bmk#1476: only 22 sessions, basically negligible
cognomen#6297: maybe someone set up a periodic ping to check if neo is ready yet
Daj#7482: Oh guys
bmk#1476: lol
bmk#1476: `isneoreadyyet.com`
Daj#7482: I found the weirdest thing the other day
bmk#1476: and we end up never updating it
bmk#1476: so it keeps saying no forever
Daj#7482: I think we got caught in a russian spam network or somethig
Daj#7482: Hold on
Daj#7482: https://twitter.com/HackerKirsten/status/1348679824966094848?s=19
Daj#7482: There is _so much_ weird shit going on here
Daj#7482: I think it's a GPT spambot
bmk#1476: lmfao
StellaAthena#3530: Here’s the all time numbers https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800514644091076638/image0.png
Daj#7482: The followers tipped me off |
Daj#7482: Too weird
bmk#1476: what the heck is this
mick#2835: I don't remember the title of the work, but some research groups investigated training just one transformer layer that is iterated many times and it had interesting results. IIRC It naturally developed into a fixed point iterator and so it's possible that transformer models already learn to "think iteratively" in a way that can be allowed to loop for "deeper" rumination
3dprint_the_world#6486: what in the actual f
Daj#7482: Yea lol
3dprint_the_world#6486: > Since I linked all of my blog posts to HackerNews, guess what, everything I’ve written on the web has just been scraped up into their text generation tool. Strangely enough, they have recently blocked me from posting. The explanation is that my website is ‘promotional’.
Daj#7482: I think it's a sophisticated spam or SEO operation
StellaAthena#3530: I was about to link that lol
3dprint_the_world#6486: you may very well be right
StellaAthena#3530: My favorite part is the insinuation that we blocked her from HN
Daj#7482: I like that she copied the MIT license
3dprint_the_world#6486: it could honestly be a very very confused person
cfoster0#4356: https://arxiv.org/abs/1909.01377
bmk#1476: @Daj i am legit unable to tell if this is just a crank tbh
Daj#7482: I thought so too but check the followers
bmk#1476: i dont think this is fake generated
Daj#7482: No engagement, lots of random followers
bmk#1476: there are easier ways to farm content
Daj#7482: This is fake
Daj#7482: GPT in the wild |
cfoster0#4356: Or maybe Universal Transformer
CRG#8707: Also the feedback transformer is explicitly recursive.
nz#9710: oh god what the fuck am I reading
bmk#1476: this trips my crank alarm but not my spambot alarm tbh
Daj#7482: Spam is weird
Daj#7482: The followers
Daj#7482: This is a new breed of SEO spam I think
ibos#2815: but the problem here would be that for large models, it would have to treat pure inputs and information that is in the middle of being computed differently. The structure of the data (semantical structure too, not only syntactical form) isn't the same
Daj#7482: For "link juice"
bmk#1476: ? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800515634391023656/unknown.png
StellaAthena#3530: > Eleuther AI’s tool first ranks all of the text in their 800 GB ‘pile’ according to upvotes, citations, and other quality metrics and then it undergoes more self-sorting, based on the sources from which users like to generate (copy) text. It basically allows users to filter out your best work from a pile of text.
Daj#7482: Why would she have followers like that?
bmk#1476: this sounds exactly like crankspeak
Daj#7482: Makes no sense
StellaAthena#3530: I’m not even sure how someone could possibly come@up with this
Daj#7482: Crank speak might be good SEO or easy to generated with GPT
bmk#1476: @Daj i think probability of this being gpt generated is low
nz#9710: it's not usual bot spam, at least there's a real person behind it -- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUGYa_xvQq4sszhtAQYnqnQ
bmk#1476: i think this person is a crank
nz#9710: I agree with bmk |
3dprint_the_world#6486: yeah this seems sincere
mick#2835: Don't you all see this is really good publicity? lol
Daj#7482: Then why does she have such weird followers?
Daj#7482: And follows
Daj#7482: You guys underestimate how modern SEO works
bmk#1476: > There is a big difference because computer registers allow for the copying of much lengthier sequences than that of which a human memory is capable.
bmk#1476: lmao
Big Fat Duck#0266: that's 100% a gpt bot
Big Fat Duck#0266: look at the comments
cognomen#6297: https://kirstenhacker.wordpress.com/tag/copyright/
cognomen#6297: seems to be obsessed with being ripped off
Big Fat Duck#0266: https://kirstenhacker.wordpress.com/2021/01/11/eleuther-ai-plagiarist-in-the-making/#comment-3420
bmk#1476: i think there's only a 10% chance that the posts are gpt generated
Big Fat Duck#0266: any one of us here could be GPT bots
bmk#1476: you underestimate how incoherent some real human beings can be
3dprint_the_world#6486: https://kirstenhacker.wordpress.com/2021/01/05/murakami-and-meaning/
Daj#7482: Whatever you do, don't engage incase it is a nutcase lol
nz#9710: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYxkd5HFwvc
nz#9710: she's obsessed with plagiarizers, it's not a bot
cognomen#6297: rough rule of thumb: paranoia about ideas being stolen tends to correlate negatively with the value of said ideas |
3dprint_the_world#6486: that is exactly the kind of rubbish I expect to come from this kind of person
3dprint_the_world#6486: there's no way that's auto-generated
Daj#7482: Holy shit
Daj#7482: This is a rabbit hole
3dprint_the_world#6486: GPT-2 may not be smart but it could never *purposely* be that dumb
cognomen#6297: does correlate with how derivative someone is though
Daj#7482: I stand corrected
Daj#7482: Or is she a deep fake :thonk:
nz#9710: and here's why her followers are so strange
nz#9710: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbX6t0BpIYc
bmk#1476: @Daj occams razor go brrr
nz#9710: :ultrazucc:
Daj#7482: lmao
Daj#7482: SEO was simpler imo
3dprint_the_world#6486: > good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be
.
> welcome to a post on flat-earth cosmology
Daj#7482: This is a real old school internet rabbit hole
Daj#7482: Amazing
Daj#7482: Where's the Fredrik Knudsen music? |
3dprint_the_world#6486: yeah it kinda brings me back
nz#9710: the filters, lmao
bmk#1476: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/K_Hacker
bmk#1476: i dont think it's even a pseudonym
3dprint_the_world#6486: guys, do you still think AGI should be aligned to human values?
bmk#1476: this person's surname is literally "Hacker"
bmk#1476: ~~nominative determinism~~
Daj#7482: I never advocated for this lmao
3dprint_the_world#6486: yeah I know.
bmk#1476: connor finally gets to say "told you so"
StellaAthena#3530: https://www.nature.com/articles/nphoton.2007.76/
nz#9710: can't wait for her video about eleutherai
StellaAthena#3530: She appears to be a real person, or someone whose identity was stolen
nz#9710: I think her videos prove that she's real -- not sure if she's sane tho
bmk#1476: i mean, in that case id expect the real K. Hacker to complain about it loudly somewhere
Big Fat Duck#0266: actually yes she might be an insane paranoid person
Big Fat Duck#0266: https://kirstenhacker.wordpress.com/posts-deleted-by-quora/
Big Fat Duck#0266: its understandable she made that post about the pile
bmk#1476: also holy shit this person is *german*
Daj#7482: Yes this seems like it could be a scientist that had a schizophrenic breakdown |
Daj#7482: It can happen suddenly in late adolescence
Daj#7482: Tragic
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800517991090618428/unknown.png
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800518031540617251/unknown.png
Big Fat Duck#0266: she is vehemently anti corporate, anti AI
3dprint_the_world#6486: this is what I'm thinking. If that's the case, it's actually quite sad.
nz#9710: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL-rbsmJNkk
nz#9710: 👀
ibos#2815: @mick you talking about this? https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.09402
Daj#7482: Yea...
bmk#1476: very sad indeed; i wonder what causes this kind of thing
3dprint_the_world#6486: I'm just skimming through her General Relativity answer that was deleted. It's not *incorrect*, just... insane.
bmk#1476: and whether ill realize if it ever happens to me
Daj#7482: Seems like textbook schizophrenia
Daj#7482: Often above average intelligence people that just snap from one day to the other
3dprint_the_world#6486: like she talks about a whole lot of irrelevant XHEL measurements and whatever
Daj#7482: Happened to me too it's wild
Big Fat Duck#0266: her cynical answer about getting instagram followers is good
3dprint_the_world#6486: if you're in your mid-20's then probably not
3dprint_the_world#6486: the threshold seems to be late teens/early 20's |
Daj#7482: It can happen later but it's rare yea
Daj#7482: And you'll notice lmao
Daj#7482: You just won't be able to do anything about it
nz#9710: she's on lesswrong too
bmk#1476: thank goodness
nz#9710: https://www.lesswrong.com/users/kirsten-hacker
Daj#7482: _what_
bmk#1476: this person seems to have had a pretty successful research career already though
Daj#7482: I've never seen a negative voted LW post
Daj#7482: It can happen up to early 30s if you're unlucky
Daj#7482: It happens later in women too iirc
Big Fat Duck#0266: might not be schizo
3dprint_the_world#6486: I don't know what it is about physics that makes people flip like this.
cognomen#6297: definitely leaning towards it though
3dprint_the_world#6486: or maybe physics just tends to attract people who are already susceptible
Daj#7482: Feels textbook schizo tbh
3dprint_the_world#6486: like a really famous textbook case is Lubos Motl
Daj#7482: Physics was probably the most schizotypy field I was in lol
Big Fat Duck#0266: i think she's legit, just randomly writing about stuff, getting paranoid about her writing getting stolen by ML models
3dprint_the_world#6486: sadly, probably true |
Daj#7482: It's why physics parties are fun lol
3dprint_the_world#6486: when I was in the physics dept was definitely when I felt most neurotypical
cognomen#6297: this hunting down of "my plagiarizers" and stuff like this https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/PMuz7BbEPtjBtdvy3/a-novel-form-of-automated-racketeering definitely looks like an early schizophrenic obsession
Daj#7482: Nah, her writing style screams mental illness
3dprint_the_world#6486: mathematicians are just quirky and love taking drugs
3dprint_the_world#6486: not comparable
bmk#1476: > About 0.3% to 0.7% of people are affected by schizophrenia during their lifetime.
bmk#1476: thank goodness
cognomen#6297: also abandoning a successful career in favor of this obsession is a bit of a red flag
bmk#1476: but also that's not *that* small
bmk#1476: oh no
3dprint_the_world#6486: just like Lubos Motl
Daj#7482: Schizophrenia is so weird, because it's exactly equally prevalent in all populations everywhere
nz#9710: god what a rabbit hole
Daj#7482: And 1% is scary high
3dprint_the_world#6486: thing is most schizophrenics can actually function normally with the right medication, only problem is getting them treatment
Daj#7482: I dunno how high the percentage is with modern medications. Most I know could only barely function
3dprint_the_world#6486: which can be tricky sometimes especially if they've gone deep down into the paranoia stage
Daj#7482: Yea and the drugs have icky side effects
bmk#1476: this is why im afraid that even if i know of its existence, if i get struck by it sometime later and then i wont be able to seek out medication because of it |
Daj#7482: Yea of you don't have strong family support you're fucked
bmk#1476: have there been experiments on whether people who are educated on the effects of schizophrenia can identify it in themselves?
cognomen#6297: victim mentality, alleging of conspiracies against herself, meaningless pattern-matching confirming her views, attacking people who don't agree with her or ignore her...
> Shame on all of you for downvoting this.
cognomen#6297: grim prognosis
Big Fat Duck#0266: ```Why would you downvote this? If I end up dead, people like you are to blame. I think I'm only safe if I'm visible. As a housewife in a foreign country, I feel invisible. ```
Daj#7482: Well there's n=1 me but all doctors told me I'm an anomaly
bmk#1476: lol i guess
nz#9710: god I actually feel sorry for her
3dprint_the_world#6486: I read somewhere that 70% of schizophrenics respond well to modern treatment but can't find the link right now
bmk#1476: wikipedia:
> About half of those diagnosed with schizophrenia will have a significant improvement over the long term with no further relapses, and a small proportion of these will recover completely.
gwern#1782: (yes, she's mentally ill, if this doesn't scream classic textbook intelligent-but-schizophrenic to you, you really must lead a sheltered life)
Daj#7482: Nice that's higher than I expected, glad those people can be helped
bmk#1476: honestly this has given me more of an existential crisis than thinking about paperclippification. i need to recalibrate my existential crisis weightings...
Daj#7482: Honestly, interested what model miscalibration caused this
Daj#7482: Just not exposed to mentally ill people much?
3dprint_the_world#6486: I find that people who become schizo often have *really* early signs even from childhood
3dprint_the_world#6486: like one big sign is not being able to take any kind of criticism |
bmk#1476: well, at least partially
bmk#1476: idk tbh
Daj#7482: I think this is controversial
3dprint_the_world#6486: yes, it's just my anecdotal observation
bmk#1476: so basically about 80% of the population
Daj#7482: There's also like at least 5 genetic variants of schizophrenia
Daj#7482: And I'm _sure_ several of them are actually types of autism
3dprint_the_world#6486: no no, I'm talking massive overreaction to criticism
Daj#7482: Didn't have this as a kid. Did always have visual hallucinations from birth though lmao
Daj#7482: For those that don't know me: My schizophrenia went away basically completely from metformin treatment
Daj#7482: I'm fine haha
3dprint_the_world#6486: you sure?
Daj#7482: But I was at least as crazy as this girl for a good period of time
3dprint_the_world#6486: (j/k, sorry, bad sense of humor)
Daj#7482: Well, different kind of crazy
Daj#7482: All good
bmk#1476: >fine
>literally trying to build god on earth
Daj#7482: I like to joke about it |
Daj#7482: :guilty:
Daj#7482: You're not wrong
3dprint_the_world#6486: welp, I think this discussion sufficiently scared off all the newcomers
bmk#1476: though i guess we're all in the same boat
3dprint_the_world#6486: now back to work
Daj#7482: Filtering out the weak
AI_WAIFU#2844: we ride the fine line between madness and genius
bmk#1476: to all newcomers: we don't have conversations like this all the time. usually we have even worse ones
AI_WAIFU#2844: about [redacted]
JJungle#0074: How is metformin a treatment? isn't for AMPK and diabetes
bmk#1476: does that [redacted] begin with c
nz#9710: and finish with atgirls
Daj#7482: Yea fuck if I know, but something about insulin tolerance was directly linked to my mental illness
AI_WAIFU#2844: always
Daj#7482: It always got worse when I ate food for example
Daj#7482: Metformin just made it...go away
Daj#7482: Can't explain it really
Daj#7482: Like I'm still schizotypy/schizoid personality wise
Daj#7482: (obviously)
Daj#7482: But it's just not a debilitating disease anymore |
3dprint_the_world#6486: I don't get that vibe from you tbh
Daj#7482: I LARP as an autist
3dprint_the_world#6486: you know what, someone should get that K Hacker person to work on transformer models
Daj#7482: Do not disturb her
Daj#7482: She needs help, not more things to form delusions about
Big Fat Duck#0266: after watching her youtube videos, K Hacker is correct, everything she says is right
Daj#7482: infohazard
Daj#7482: K Hacker is an SCP
bmk#1476: Class: Keter
Daj#7482: Call the anti memetics division
nz#9710: *this is getting out of hand, now there's two of them!*
3dprint_the_world#6486: *we will not survive this!*
Big Fat Duck#0266: obviously there is a distributed team of specialists stealing her unique combination of plot elements from her book
Big Fat Duck#0266: doing it in an undetectable manner
Big Fat Duck#0266: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLC7B-aCu84
3dprint_the_world#6486: I wish someone would plagiarize my thesis. Just so I can think there's someone who's read it.
bmk#1476: i mean duh, what else, the sky is blue, the earth is flat?
cognomen#6297: it's really hard to wrap my head around the experience of not being able to resist connecting dots that were never actually connected
bmk#1476: even normal people are usually too good at connecting dots
cognomen#6297: so easy to take self-awareness and objectivity for granted |
bmk#1476: it's a major cognitive bias
Daj#7482: It's fun tho
bmk#1476: too easy to find meaning in things where there is none
Daj#7482: Grand conspiracies are so much more fun than boring random reality
Big Fat Duck#0266: she's not insane, she's just an extremely bored housewife trying to break into the writing industry
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800525188923785226/20130415.png
cognomen#6297: yeah, my personal theory is that they're a coping mechanism much more than a fear
3dprint_the_world#6486: /s?
Daj#7482: Anecdote: it was totally fear for me. It was being awake during a nightmare 24/7
cognomen#6297: suffering makes so much more sense when someone is out there conspiring to inflict it on you
Daj#7482: Terror like you can't imagine, nothing in the world made sense anymore
Daj#7482: It's a fundamental breakdown of your brain's ability to make meaningful predictions
Big Fat Duck#0266: k hacker is a genius seemingly abruptly disconnected from academia but still going through the motions
Daj#7482: Everything is surprising and frightening
Daj#7482: I think recreational Q anon type people are like this though
3dprint_the_world#6486: given that our brains evolved for the savannah, I'm honestly surprised most people in modern society aren't just having nervous breakdowns all the time
3dprint_the_world#6486: I guess the key ability is just being able to look at things and go 'meh'
cognomen#6297: okay maybe not applicable to schizophrenia strictly, but the way i've rationalized various "world order" conspiracies is that their believers really want to believe in some kind of order and control in the world
bmk#1476: anyways the good news is there are more common ways to die
Daj#7482: Fun fact: schizophrenia was believed to not exist in tribal societies, but they found it did, but had basically only positive effects. Nice, friendly voices, respect in the tribe for seeing spirits etc |
cognomen#6297: everything is part of a big plan, everything makes sense, everything has a purpose
bmk#1476: 0.9% chance of dying in a car accident
cognomen#6297: the alternative is complete chaos
cognomen#6297: which is more existentially devastating than a world run by satanic lizard people
Daj#7482: I think this is probably an autism-afjacdnt form of schizophrenia
Daj#7482: It's having too strong priors
Daj#7482: While mine was having your priors dissolve into goo
bmk#1476: 4% chance of dying of any preventable cause
cfoster0#4356: O boy general is hot today
bmk#1476: 14% chance of dying of cancer
Daj#7482: Is this how you calm down bmk lol
bmk#1476: (just to put the 0.3-0.7% in context)
3dprint_the_world#6486: come join us, we're talking about completely irrelevant shit and slacking off
bmk#1476: yup
cognomen#6297: at least if you haven't grown up with the idea that there could be purpose and meaning outside of a grand plan view of the world, (then a world without a grand plan seems like chaos)
(a "godless" world is anything but nihilistic though, and one should learn to live with the facts of the human condition rather than avoid them)
(my take: finding purpose in the world is ultimately a matter of personal responsibility, and the pursuit in itself gives meaning)
Big Fat Duck#0266: k hacker is calling out AI generated books sold on amazon, is this a thing yet?
bmk#1476: every time i stress over tiny chances, i just remind myself how common cancer is
Daj#7482: Probably |
Daj#7482: How calming
3dprint_the_world#6486: every time I get worried about dying, I just remember the time before I was born and how great that was
bmk#1476: idk about you but i hated that time
nz#9710: Same
3dprint_the_world#6486: I mean, a huge asteroid hit the planet and wiped out the dinosaurs, and I didn't feel anything
Daj#7482: Fuck you guys I was a frog in a previous life and it was the shit
3dprint_the_world#6486: that was great
bmk#1476: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/729741769738158194/800527041006141500/1610918458891.png
Big Fat Duck#0266: her mind is like 20 years ahead of ours, holy shit
Big Fat Duck#0266: this project is her true enemy, as a writer
nz#9710: She'll probably have a video about eleuther in the next few days 👀
Daj#7482: Is she watching us I wonder
3dprint_the_world#6486: it'll probably have 20 views
3dprint_the_world#6486: probably mostly from us
nz#9710: True, but still interesting, I wonder what filter she's gonna use
nz#9710: She *really* likes filters
Big Fat Duck#0266: invite her to this discord
Daj#7482: Don't
Daj#7482: Seriously leave her alone
Daj#7482: All joking aside |
Daj#7482: Don't make a person already in great pain suffer more
nz#9710: I agree -- she has enough issues on her own
3dprint_the_world#6486: I totally agree, of course, @Daj , but I'm still loving the casual implication that participation in this discord is suffering
bmk#1476: i suffr evrytiem
Daj#7482: But you know what I mean lol
Daj#7482: It would feed her paranoia
3dprint_the_world#6486: yes
Daj#7482: I feel bad for even bringing it up
Daj#7482: I really didn't think it was a real person
Big Fat Duck#0266: i mean but its a legit thing to be paranoid about, maybe in 10 years when all human authors are pushed out of the industry
Daj#7482: Implying anyone at all will have a job in 10 years 👀
bmk#1476: something something broken clock
Big Fat Duck#0266: would it be technically legal to feed her texts into a transformer and use it to splat out a novel that ends up outselling her own on amazon
bmk#1476: afaik it's a grey zone
bmk#1476: but i dont know anything about legal things
3dprint_the_world#6486: ok even I think that this is a horrible idea
3dprint_the_world#6486: plz no
bmk#1476: yeah dont actually do it even if its 100% legal
cognomen#6297: she's shown herself that you wouldn't even need to
cognomen#6297: you can match up beat sheets and themes between almost anything and call it plagiarism |
bmk#1476: anyways let's talk about something completely different
bmk#1476: what is our opinion on switching to wandb?
gwern#1782: _notes that 'Hacker' really is a common surname. in fact, the last book he's packing up to mail off for scanning is 'Elements of Controversy' by... 'Barton C. Hacker' (If that **is his real name**???)_
cognomen#6297: it's the wild cyberpunk future of 2021
cognomen#6297: of course every other person is named John/Jane Hacker
cognomen#6297: I wish I was a Hacker
gdawg16#0493: hello can you make a replika with gpt-neo thank u
IKEA#9631: no
gdawg16#0493: pls
mick#2835: kk send lots of money
3dprint_the_world#6486: Yes Minister
gdawg16#0493: when does the training start
bmk#1476: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
bmk#1476: if you want to make sure training happens fast, start writing code
gdawg16#0493: System.out.println("Training model, please wait...");
gdawg16#0493: :brr:
gdawg16#0493: ok i will lurk now good luck my dudes
Big Fat Duck#0266: theres no java in their codebase i dont think
Big Fat Duck#0266: looks like the projects main issues right now are devops related, setting up the CI/CD
Big Fat Duck#0266: setting up k8s on bare metal of several gpu enabled instances, then installing kubeflow on top of that |
Singularity#9001: Does anyone here write any poetry
Singularity#9001: Please share
bmk#1476: #off-topic
bmk#1476: yup, basically
bmk#1476: and then several -> very many
Big Fat Duck#0266: will more work be done on the pytorch/deepspeed/microsoft gpt-neox than the tensorflow/google gpt-neo moving forward?
bmk#1476: yes
bmk#1476: gptneo is mostly "done"
bmk#1476: we'll be running many smaller scale experiments on TFRC
bmk#1476: where smaller means <=10B so not really "small" i guess
voxs#0001: this has been a very interesting chat
StellaAthena#3530: We don’t expect to get GPT-Neo much more efficient and it’s basically impossible to get pods for training 50B+ models anyways so it seems like not a good use of our time.
bmk#1476: also i hear that jannet is a lot more efficient and also some of the changes can be backported (cc @Lucas Nestler (ClashLuke) )
bmk#1476: so we might want to look into that at some point
voxs#0001: this server seems like a manifestation of "bigger is better" in AI
StellaAthena#3530: Whereas we have a commitment for enough GPUs to train 200B+
StellaAthena#3530: Why do you say that? We have a lot of resources but we also like smarter AIs
voxs#0001: what if bigger==smarter :floooshed:
StellaAthena#3530: I mean smarter design
gdawg16#0493: u gotta get up to a trillion parameters like google |
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