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Or that very happening opens the door for the old to utilise it. Is that so? Lord, you are stuck in here, aren't you, all of you?
Look sir, this is really quite important. It is really quite important, if you will forgive me saying so, even if you don't follow it, this is really quite important because I want to find a new way of living, a totally new way of living. And I realise the old way of living is terrible, ugly, brutal, violent and all the rest of it, the old way.
I must find a new way - not a way, a new dimension which is unrelated to the old. Right? Any movement on the part of the old to discover a different dimension is not possible.
So that old realises this, any movement from it cannot possibly discover a new dimension, so it becomes quiet. Right? Now what takes place in that quietness?
Let's proceed along that way. What takes place when the old brain has understood that it cannot find a new dimension, what takes place when it has realised that? Right?
What takes place? I am asking, what takes place, sir? You talk so much, tell me.
Listening. Just listening. Just look, listen... What takes place?
The old brain remembers. It is committed to memory. No, sir.
No, sir. It lives in order. All that is memory, word, response, trying to capture the new is still part of the old.
And I said when the old has understood that no new thing it can discover, it naturally becomes quiet. That is a fact. Right?
That is a fact, not an invention. Now what takes place when the old brain is absolutely quiet? That is my next question.
(Inaudible) No, don't invent, sir. Unless you experience this don't guess. Action.
The gentleman says, action. I don't know what you mean. (Inaudible) Now wait a minute.
When the old brain is quiet, the gentleman says there is space. Wait a minute, let's examine it. What do you mean by space?
An emptiness. Emptiness. Right?
When the old brain is completely quiet, we are asking what takes place. Right? Sir, please don't invent, don't guess.
Observe. Is your old brain quiet? No.
I'm gone off. But can you ask that question? If the old brain is quiet, can you ask that question?
I am asking you. May be a wrong question but we must find out. Surely it cannot ask that question because... Sir, I am... Somebody... Sir, don't... A truth.
Find a truth. No, no, madame. (Inaudible) I am sorry, I can't hear.
If somebody has heard, please repeat. (Inaudible) He is saying - just listen to what he is saying - when the old brain is quiet perhaps a new part of the brain which has not been used comes into operation. Just listen to it!
Right? That is, we are only functioning with a very small part of our brain. And when that small part of the brain is quiet the rest of the brain may be active.
Or it has been active all the time but we don't know that it is active because one part which has accumulated knowledge, tradition, time, that is always active, super-active and therefore we don't know the other part at all - which may also have its own activity. Right? Are you following this?
So. This is really a very interesting question. Please give your mind to this little bit, don't go off, say 'I don't understand', and just drop it.
Apply it. You see, having used the old brain so much we have never considered any other thing... any other part of that brain. And what is that part which is so... which is always... which may have a quality of a different dimension?
And I said that quality of a different dimension can be discovered when the old brain is really quiet. That's all my... You follow? When the old brain is completely quiet, not made quiet, but naturally it has understood that it must be quiet and therefore it is quiet, when it has understood that, then we can find out what takes place when that old brain is absolutely quiet.
Right, sir? Now, I am going to investigate, not you. Right?
Because your old brain is not quiet. Right? Would you agree to that?
You don't know... I mean, it has not understood the necessity of being completely quiet under any stimuli, except of course physical stimuli, that is if you put a pin into my leg it will respond, naturally. But as nobody is putting a pin into my leg, I can... the old brain can be quiet.
Right? Now I want to find out what is the quality of the new brain. Right?
The quality which the old brain cannot recognise. Right? If it is able to recognise the new, then it is part of the old.
Right? Because the old brain cannot recognise anything which it has not experienced, which is not the outcome of memory. Right?
Therefore when the old brain recognises then it is still the old. Right? Is that clear?
So, I am asking, what is the new? The old brain doesn't know anything about it, therefore it can only say, 'I really don't know'. Right?
Let's proceed from there. Some of you follow this. The old brain says, 'I really can't touch this and I really don't know'.
Because I cannot touch it, because I cannot recognise it, I am not going to be deceived by it - right? - I know nothing about it. Right?
I absolutely know nothing about the new dimension of the new brain. Right? So when the old brain is quiet and is incapable of recognition, and therefore it can only say, 'I really don't know'.
Right? Can the old brain remain in that state of not-knowing? Right, sir?
Because it has said, all my life I have functioned with knowledge and recognition, all my life in functioning that way I have said I know in terms of what I do not know, which I will learn, but always within the pattern of knowing. Now it says, 'I really don't know because something new is taking place. I really don't know'.
The new cannot be recognised, therefore I have no relationship to it yet. I am going to find out. Is this so far - or can we go on a little bit?
Now what is the brain that says, I do not know, the nature of not knowing - you follow, sir? - the nature of not knowing, what is that? When there is a state of not knowing is there fear in it?
Which is death. You follow, sir? When the old brain actually says, I don't know, it has relinquished all knowing.
Right? Yes. All knowing - don't say, madame - this is the most...
It has relinquished altogether the intention of knowing, of wanting to know. So there is a field in which the old brain cannot function because it doesn't know. Right?
Now what is that field? Right? Can that field ever be described?
It can be described only when the old brain recognises it and verbalises it, to communicate. Right, sir? So there is a field in which the old brain cannot possibly enter and this is not an invention, this is not a theory, this is a fact when the old brain says, 'I really don't know a thing about all this'.
Which means there is no intention to learn about the new thing. You see the difference, sir? So.
Now I want to find out, non-verbally, because the moment I use a word I am back in the old. Therefore is there an understanding of something new non-verbally? You follow?
Non-verbally in the sense of not inventing a new word, or the intention to describe it so as to capture it and hold it. So I am just enquiring, the mind is looking at it, looking at something of which it does not know at all. Right?
Is that possible? You understand my question? I have always looked at something in terms of learning about it, resisting it, avoiding it, escaping from it, or overcoming it.
Now it is doing nothing of that kind. Is that possible? You understand?
If it is not possible you cannot possibly understand the other. Right, sir? Bene?
(Inaudible) I don't know. What is the something which the brain cannot... which the old brain cannot possibly understand, and therefore the old brain cannot possibly know or acquire knowledge about - is there such thing? Or is it still an invention of the old brain wanting something new to happen?
Right? If it is the old brain wanting something new to happen it is still part of the old brain. Now I have examined it completely so that the old brain has understood its structure and nature and therefore it is absolutely still, not wanting to know.
That is where the difficulty lies. Sir... (inaudible) ...it's only love. Don't, sir, don't use words.
You are missing the whole thing. I am so sorry. This should be discussed really with very, very, very few who go into this.
It doesn't matter, we will go on. You see, when you disturb, it breaks. Is there something real, not imagined, not invented, not a theory, something which the old brain cannot possibly understand or recognise or want to understand?
Is there anything like that? For the speaker there is, and therefore that has no value. Right?
He may be illuding himself, deluding himself, wanting to sit on the platform - it has no value. But it has value in the sense only for you to discover it. Right?
Therefore you have to find out what is the relationship - please listen - what is the relationship of the new, if you see the new, to the old, and as the old must operate in life, objectively, sanely, non-personally therefore efficiently, what is the relationship of the new to the old? Does the old capture the new and therefore live a different life? Or the new operates in a way that the old cannot possibly recognise and that operation is the new way of living?
You have got it, sir? Yes. No, just a minute, sir.
Go slowly, take time, sir, look. This brain has lived for thousands of years, this old brain, with its consciousness; the consciousness of the old brain is its content. Its content may have been acquired superficially or in depth, and that is the old brain, with all the knowledge, with all the experience of centuries upon centuries of human endeavour, evolution.
And when it is functioning within that field of consciousness it can never discover anything new. That is an absolute fact, not a theory. And so any enquiry into freedom, into what love is, into what death is - you follow?
- of which we know nothing, except jealousy, envy, fear, which are all part of the old content. This old brain then realising its utter limitation becomes quiet because it has found there is no freedom in it. Right?
And because it has found no freedom in it a new part of the brain is in operation. I don't know if you see that. Look sir, I have been going south, thinking I am going north, and suddenly it discovers south is not north at all.
At the moment of discovery there is a total reversion. The reversion is not of the old, it is completely reversed. Right?
It is neither going north or south, it is moving totally in a different direction. Right? That is when it discovers that its movement can never bring about freedom, at that moment of discovery there is a totally different movement, which is freedom.
I don't know if you get this. I don't know how much you have understood, I am awfully sorry. Sir, could you discuss the difference between the intensity to find out and the desire of the old for the new.
Intensity to find out or the desire of the old for the new. That we have gone into, sir. The desire of the old for the new is still the old, therefore the desire for the new or the experience for the new - call it enlightenment, god, what you like, it is still part of the old, therefore that's out.
Krishnaji, do you realise that you have been speaking of the most highest philosophy, and that here we are not even able to have the smallest relationship with each other. Do you realise that you have been talking of a highest philosophy and at the same time do you know that we have hardly any relationship with each other. Who are we?
We have been through that, sir. We are monkeys. (Laughter) Look sir, look sir what you you are talking of the highest philosophy - no, it is not talking of the highest philosophy, it is the pure thing, but that doesn't matter - and you say you are talking of the highest philosophy and yet do you realise that we have no relationship with each other.
If you realise that you have actually no relationship with each other - actually not theoretically - that your relationship with another cannot exist as long as the old brain is in operation - right? - because the old brain functions in images, pictures, past incidence, and when the past incidence, happenings, images, knowledge, is strong then relationship comes to an end, obviously - no? No?
If I have built an image about you, who are my wife, or my friend, my girl or whatever it is, and that image, that knowledge, which is the past, obviously prevents relationship. Relationship means direct contact, immediately at the present, at the same level, with the same intensity, with the same passion. And that passion, intensity at the same level cannot exist if I have an image about you and you have an image about me.
Full stop. It is for you to see if you have an image about somebody else. Obviously you have.
Therefore apply, work to find out. That is if you really want a relationship with another - which I doubt anybody does because we are all so terribly selfish, enclosed, and if you really want a relationship with another you have to understand this whole structure of the past, which is what we have been doing. And when that is gone you have a relationship which is totally new all the time.
And that relationship new is love, not the old - you know, beating the drum. Now, you see. You see, sir, what is the relationship of love, which is the new, which is the different dimension, which is not known, which cannot be captured by the old, what is the relationship of that in daily life?
Right? That's my question, hold to it. What is the relationship of that quality of that dimension to my everyday life?
I have discovered that dimension, it has happened, because I have said the old brain can never be free, therefore the old brain is incapable of finding out what truth is. Therefore the old brain says, my whole structure is of time therefore I'll function only with regard to that which has time - machinery, language, all the rest of it, but the other part I will be completely still. Right?
And what is the relationship between the two? Has the old any relationship with freedom, love, the unknown? Right?
If it has relationship - please listen - if it has relationship with the unknown then it is part of the old - if it has relationship - you follow? But if the unknown has relationship with the old then it is quite a different proposition - I don't know if you see that. Bene?
Are we meeting each other somewhere? Yes we are. My question is, what is the relationship between these two?
And who wants relationship? You are following? Who is demanding this relationship?
Is the old demanding the relationship? Right? If the old is demanding it then it is part of the old, therefore it has no relationship with the other.
Right? I don't know whether you see the beauty of this. The old has no relationship with freedom, with love, with this dimension.
But the dimension, love, that new, can have a relationship with it, but not the other way round. See, sir, see it do you? The - whatever it is.
So my question then is, the next step what is the action in life, daily life, when the old has no relationship with the new but the new is establishing relationship as it moves in life. You have understood this, my question? I have... the mind has discovered something new.
How is that new going to operate in the field of the known? Right? In the field of the known is the old brain with all its activity - you follow?
- how is that going to operate? (Inaudible) He says that is where intelligence comes in. Now wait a minute sir, perhaps you are right.
When the old brain sees that it can never understand what freedom is - right? - when it sees that it is incapable of discovering something new, the very perception that it cannot is the seed of intelligence, isn't it? Right?
That is intelligence - says, I can't do. I thought I could do a lot of things, and I can in a certain direction, but in a totally new direction I can't do anything. The discovery of that, the experience... the seeing of that is intelligence, obviously.
Now, what is the relationship of that intelligence to the other? Is the other part of this extraordinary sense of intelligence? Right?
Now I want to find out what we mean by that word 'intelligence' - the mind mustn't be caught by words, or the root meaning of the word 'intelligence', so I am just enquiring. Obviously the old brain, all these centuries, thought it could do, it could have its god, its freedom - everything it wanted. And suddenly discovers that any movement of the old is still part of the old, therefore intelligence is the understanding that it cannot function... it can only function within the field of the known.
Right? The discovery of that is intelligence, we say. Now what is that intelligence, what is its relationship to life, to a dimension of which the old brain doesn't know?
Have you got it? You see, intelligence is not personal, isn't the outcome of argument, belief, opinion, reason. Intelligence comes into being when the brain discovers its fallibility, when it discovers what it is capable of and what it is not capable of.
The discovery of its capacity and incapacity is intelligence. Now that intelligence... what is the relationship between that intelligence and this new dimension? Right?
Its relationship - wait I have got it, just give me a minute, will you? I would not use the word 'relationship'. The new dimension... the different dimension can only operate through intelligence.
Right? If there is not that intelligence it cannot operate. Right, sir?
So, in daily life - I have got it, see how it works out sir, beautifully - so in daily life it can only operate where intelligence is functioning. Intelligence cannot function when there is the old operation, old brain is active, when there is any form of neurotic or non-neurotic belief and adherence to any particular fragment of the brain. Right?
All that is lack of intelligence. The man who believes in god is not intelligent. The man who says there is only one saviour - not intelligent.
The man who says I belong to this group - Jew, Hindu, Muslim - is not intelligent, and therefore that cannot operate. It is only the man that discovers the limitation of the old and the very discovery of that is intelligence, and only when that intelligence is functioning can the new dimension operate through it. Full stop.