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krishnamurti_discussions

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I will tell you, sir - if that interests you. As usual we were travelling all over the world, going from place to place. And the war came and we were in California.
And being a foreigner I was called up before the Board, or what is it, who were investigating people who were worthwhile to fight, and they saw I was a poor unfortunate heathen, who couldn't even lift a gun, didn't know what it all meant to kill another. They said, 'please go home'. And so I - does all that interest you?
Yes. I milked a cow, two cows, looked after chickens, did gardening, and all the rest of it, until I could get away from California, and then started the journey all over again. Washed dishes, washed floors.
Now sir, just a minute. You see where we have landed ourselves. We are asking what is it to be aware.
And with this quality of awareness, with this quality of attention, which in itself is a great bliss, because it means freedom, and can such a human being free, aware, he may make a mistake, but corrects it, there's no regret, then say, 'My god, I have done terrible things, what am I to do?' You move. You follow?
The mistakes are wiped out, corrected, if you can, but you keep on. So we are asking with this awareness, with this attention, with this quality of bliss, can one live in this world. Yes, sir, I tell you, you can.
But that's not an answer for you. What's the good of a man, another man saying, you can have food when you are hungry. You need food.
It is no good taking you to a restaurant and showing you the food, when you have no - you follow. It is your vocation - there we are - it is your vocation to find out how to live in this world with this alert awareness. That is encouraging.
The gentleman says that is very encouraging. Don't be encouraged by another. Because then another can also disappoint you.
But if you see what is possible then it releases tremendous energy. You understand, sir. Possible.
So from this quality of awareness, which is not following a method, a system, a discipline, but watching - watching how you sit, watching the restlessness of your body, becoming aware of the fidgeting of your fingers. Right? There is the biological enquiry, watching the body - you understand sir - watching it, not directing it, not saying it should or should not, but watching it, when you watch so alertly the body you will see the body becomes very quiet.
But sir, it is only possible, mainly, if you live among a religious group. It is only possible if you live among a religious group. Not only, but mainly, it is very difficult if you have to live in society.
It is very difficult if you have to live in society, so corrupt, so irreligious, to do this. Sir, everything is difficult. No, sir, I have practised it many a time.
It is extremely difficult... Sir, I am telling you sir, don't practise it, sir, I beg of you, don't practise anything. No, do listen to what I am saying. Don't practise anything.
If you practise your mind becomes mechanical. I am just using a word, I don't mean it like that. Words are very limiting.
I know that sir. If you are confused by the very structure of society, you go on and try. It's impossible.
Sir, look, I know, we all know the tremendous weight of society. The society is your father, your mother, your neighbour, your politician, the society. I know the dangers of that, we are all well aware of it, the criminality of it all.
And I say to myself what am I to do in this society? Run away from it? Join some religious group?
Escape into some fantasy, or become a communist, a socialist, you know all the rest of it? So I have explained all this. Why do you identify changing society with becoming a communist?
I don't sir. I don't identify the change of society with the communists, or with the Catholics, or with the Labour party, or with this or that. When you identify yourself with a group you cannot change society.
Full stop. If you belong to a religious group you cannot change society. The other day somebody came to see me - I don't know why - and he said, 'At last I am free.
And being free I have joined the Catholic church.' Yes, sir! Because to them freedom means freedom of choice.
Follow this. Go into it sir. Freedom of choice.
Right? When do you choose? When you are confused, when you are uncertain, you say, 'I'll choose this'.
Right? But when you see very clearly there is no choice. It's only when the mind is confused it chooses, when the mind is very clear there is no choice.
Now go into it. So you are asking, can one live in this world so clearly, without any choice, with that full awareness. Right?
Do it sir, do it. And you will see the immense possibility. And it's only when you think you have to change according to a certain pattern, according to a certain goal, according to a certain principle, then you are lost.
But if you watch yourself, you know, play with it, when you are talking, when you are driving, how you drive, with your mouth open, you know, watch it. When you are talking, whether you are gossiping. You know that is one of the favourite means of wasting one's time by gossiping about somebody or something.
Watch it, so that your mind becomes astonishingly sensitive. It is that sensitive intelligence that is going to act. Yes sir?
Are thinking and being aware compatible? Thinking and being aware, are they compatible. Are you aware that you are thinking?
Please put this question. I am putting you this question. Are you aware when you are thinking?
No, don't answer me, enquire, this is really quite an interesting question, go into it. (I am so sorry. Take her out please, she is bored sitting here.
She doesn't want to go out either. She doesn't want to go out either! Ask her to come and sit here, I'll hold her hand.)
The question are thinking and awareness compatible. Now my question are you aware that you are thinking? Awareness being watching without any distortion, without any effort, without any correction, justification, just watching.
For a moment. Don't, not one moment or the next. Look at it sir.
Are you aware that you are thinking? Or is thinking immediate, you know, you think? I ask you something and there is immediate response.
Now if you go into it a little bit you will see something very interesting. The old brain, which is full of memories, knowledge, experience, the old brain responds instantly to any challenge. Right?
I say, 'you are ugly', you say, 'no'. You follow? The response is instant, the response which is of the old brain.
Right? Now if you are aware there is a hiatus, there is a gap between the response of the old and because there is a gap perhaps a new response will take place. You are following what I am saying?
You are following all this? No. All right.
Look sir, you can watch all this in yourself, if you watch yourself, it is better than any book ever written by any man, including the Bible or the Gita, or any other book. If you watch yourself you will see that there is a quality in the brain which is always the old, the old tradition, the old conditioning, and any challenge which is always new, it must be otherwise it is not a challenge, the old brain responds quickly. Right?
I am a Christian - battle. You follow? I am a communist, this or that, according to its old conditioning it responds.
Now if you are aware you will see that the old brain need not necessarily respond immediately. There is a gap, an interval. In that interval the new mind will respond.
You try it out, do it, and you will see. You understand what I am saying? Are you all getting too tired?
This is really quite important if you go into it. It's marvellous. Because our old brain, which is at the back, and so on, I am not conversant with all that, the old brain responds all the time according to pleasure, according to pain, and so on and so on.
As that is responding all the time there is no new response. Right? The new response can only take place when the old brain is sufficiently quiet.
Right? For this quietness to be there must be an awareness in which there is no justification, condemnation, identification. You follow?
An awareness. In that awareness the old brain becomes a little more dormant, and therefore the new brain can act. You go into it.
And that's why the whole question of sleep and dream and all that is part of this. Perhaps we shall go into it another time, not now. I was wondering if you could paint a verbal picture of what the world would be like if everyone was a total individual.
He would like to have a verbal design of what the world would be like if all the human beings are totally individuals. I am afraid I am not the person to give you a verbal picture because that is a waste of time. What will be is not important, 'what is' is important.
As soon as I become aware of myself, I try to escape. As soon as I become aware of my facial expression, whatever, I change it. As soon as I become aware of it, I change it.
I always change it. The moment I become aware I want to change, whether it is my facial expression or a particular way of thinking, the moment I become aware there is an instant response of change - or the demand for change. That's what I am saying.
The instant response for change is part of the old brain because it says, 'this isn't right, this should be that way'. To quieten the old brain is to be aware without any choice. To be aware of the trees, sirs.
Look, you are aware of those mountains, can you do anything about it? Can you? There they are, the line, the height, the beauty, the valleys, you are just aware of it.
In the same way, to be aware of yourself, not wanting to change it. Then the response of the new brain brings about quite a different quality of change, something totally new. Isn't there a part of me that controls the old brain?
No, madam, the moment there is a division between the old brain and the new brain - oh, lord, I can't go into all this. Please, just look at it, sir. There is a division between you and another, between you and the tree, between you and the mountain, between you and your husband, wife, children, and all the rest of it, there is this division.
This division exists because there is always the censor - the censor, you know, who says, this is right, this is wrong, this should be, this should not be, that is part of our conditioning, is part of our structure, is part of our society, our culture, to judge immediately. Right? Now to be aware of this judgement, if you are aware of it without any choice, in that awareness there is no division at all.
The very speculation of this... There is no speculation, sir. Watching people and myself very closely there's a lot of speculation going on about this.
It's a very intellectual approach. We said that too, sir. If you are intellectually approaching this whole problem then it becomes a nightmare.
But if you also approach it emotionally it is also another form of nightmare. But if you approach it, sir, if you approach it as it is. Look, if you approach it as it is, which means you have been conditioned by the culture in which you live.
Right? That is a fact, isn't it. When I experience freedom it comes about uninvited, it doesn't come about if I urge it, if I force myself, to the slightest extent, because I want to get somewhere with it.
Ah, that's just... Well, it is happening to most of the people here all the time. Sir, I don't know what is happening to most of the people all the time. But I am saying as one human being we are so conditioned in the pattern of achievement, whether in business, in religion, in any way, we are conditioned to achieve.
Now in becoming aware of this conditioning, then you will find in that awareness if you are choosing, if you are saying, 'I must not try to achieve', then you are blocking yourself, then greater conflict arises. (Inaudible) I know sir. If one is aware of that very definite process, that very awareness changes the pattern.
I can't tell you any more. Repeat the old thing over and over again. It's now ten to twelve.
Could you say something on the cessation of time, and the flame of discontent at the same time? Look, it is now quarter to twelve. Wait a minute.
Do we have another meeting for young people? Do you want it? Yes.
You know how much I am working? Do you feel like it? Do I feel like it?
If you want it, and you are asking me, you want it, and you are asking me if I feel like it. Right? I feel like it if you are really serious.
Are we serious? That's up to you! If you are really serious, if you want to really deeply go into all this, I will spend all my day at it.
You understand sir? So we will have next Friday at ten thirty. What shall we talk over together this morning?
This is supposed to be the younger generation who are going to ask questions, and perhaps as the speaker belongs to the older generation they will forgive me for being up here. So what shall we talk over together? You know it would be very interesting and worthwhile if we could take one subject that is of vital importance to all of us and explore it together, uncovering every detail, if we can, not coming to any conclusion because that would be terrible.
But expose everything contained in that one issue so that we will see for ourselves all the implications involved in it. And when we see the whole thing, all the intricacies, all the issues, then there is no question of choice or decision, it is there. You either do it, or don't do it, there is not, saying to oneself, 'shall I, or shall I not', that brings about a decision.
Whereas if you see the thing very clearly you can say to yourself, 'I am not going to do it, it doesn't interest me'. But if it is of vital meaning to you then you can't help doing it, it is part of one's life. It's like saying I won't use my right arm.
So what shall we talk over together this evening - this morning that would not only expose the intricacies of the problem but also in understanding the problem expose ourselves to it. An issue can be something outside, verbally, which has very little meaning, but if we could get involved in it, be part of it, and thereby expose ourselves, not to another but to ourselves. Then I think it might be worthwhile if we could easily and happily enquire into a problem that might be of general and vital interest.
We communicate by words and symbols, and also by clothes and our way of being. And these symbols, and even the way we communicate with our clothes, stands in the way of true communication. Can we go into communication?
The questioner says, can we talk over communication. We use words, gestures, symbols and often periods of quietness, but somehow it doesn't seem quite appropriate or significant or give the full meaning of what one wants to say. Is that right, sir?
Right. And the actual symbols, we are conditioned by our symbols, we have conditioned ourselves to symbols. We are conditioned by our symbols, and we have conditioned those symbols according to our conditioning.
We know all that now. Do you want to discuss that? Yes, sir?
We said yesterday that we had difficulties to take decisions, which shows we are in confusion. So I would like to know how did we get into that confusion, and how can we get out of it? Yesterday you said that decision means a choice, choice implies confusion, how did we get into this confusion originally.
And how can we get out of it? And how can we get out of it. Yes sir?
Can freedom, non-dualism, and bliss be sustained by human beings, or are we meant to oscillate up and down? Freedom, bliss and non-duality, can we remain at that level all the time, or must we oscillate up and down. You said yesterday the brain must be quiet.
I would like to know can the brain be quiet while it functions technologically? You said yesterday the brain must be quiet, can it be quiet when it has to work, when it has to think. Yes sir?
Could we discuss our demand for security? Can we talk over together our demand for security. Can we discuss the tyranny of the mind?
The tyranny of the mind. From the question of communication, you said - I am now asking a question - of how one can get to a person who is living in all kinds of ways that has made this person completely insensitive, so that the yoga you talk about is completely down, how can you get to this person? How can you communicate with somebody who is completely down, who is insensitive, who is not interested in what you are talking about, how can you communicate with such a person.
You can't! Now just a minute, sir. What shall we do?
There are now so many questions. Now which of those - please find out for yourself - which of those shall we take and go right through to the end of it so that you are very clear, so that you have no problems about it, so that you don't have to ask afterwards, 'I would like to ask another question about it'? Right?
Now can we take one of these which will be really worthwhile and significant and go to the very end of it? The tyranny of the mind. The tyranny of the mind?
This question of confusion, it seems to go on from yesterday. Everything seems to relate to this question. So shall we discuss confusion?
Yes. Good! Now please, sir, we are talking as two friends.
I am sorry I have to sit on a platform, which gives one a certain authority, but I have no authority, it is just for convenience I am sitting up here. I must just as well be sitting on the ground and talking over together. That's what we do in India.
It is only sitting on a platform, as I do when there are , people, one has to because otherwise... So, please, we are talking over together as two friends really concerned with this problem, not partially concerned, or just go off and you are not interest in it, you are involved in it, you live it. You want to find out how this confusion arises, and whether it is at all possible to be free of it.
Right. When we talk about confusion, what do we mean by that word? What do you mean by that word?
Not only according to the dictionary meaning, but to yourself, non-verbally - you understand? Bearing in the mind the word is not the thing, the description is not the described, the explanation is not the explained, how do you consider, or how do you feel for yourself that you are confused? Not knowing what to do, what you are.
Not knowing what to do, what you are, what your relationship to society is, what commitment you should undertake. When there is so much confusion, misery, injustice, neuroticism in the world, among the politicians, the priests and your friends around you, what is one to do? Right?
Now what does this word 'confusion' - how do you know you are confused? Also because you are unable to take decisions. No, no.
Don't - no, my question is something entirely different. We will come to that, first begin slowly. How do you know you are confused?
Is it in relation to something, because you want to do something, and you say, 'I don't know', and therefore you discover you are confused. Please go very, very slowly over this, it is very important to understand this. You want to do something and you discover you are confused.
So you know your confusion in relation to something. Wait! If the thing you are related to is happy, you knew what to do, would there by confusion?
You are understanding my question? I am happy, I have money, I have everything I want, and I go about, do everything as I like. I say, 'What are you talking about confusion, I am not confused'.
But such a person is confused. Now see the difference. It is not in relation to something.