Datasets:
eliwill
/
krishnamurti_discussions

Dataset card Data Studio Files Community
text
stringlengths
12
1.33k
Do you mean stopping to act, or stopping to search a way out of confusion? act, a way out. Because to act out of confusion is to increase more confusion, seeking a way out of confusion implies an entity which is not confused and therefore duality, and so on.
So all the movement stops. Sir, I have a you, Krishnamurti, you are confused, now are you going to hold a private soliloquy as you are doing now, inside your head, or are you just going to recognise the fact that you're confused, stop and change direction, look at 'what is' and just go on? I am not confused.
I see very simply and very clearly that a human being who is confused has first to stop. Is stopping not another action? No.
You see you are all verbalising, you are not doing it. Isn't it an act for you? No, no action at all.
Look sir, I have been wandering around, trying this way and that way, and I see the futility of it, therefore I stop. To self-understand eliminates confusion. No, no, you don't have to self-understand, we are doing that now as we go along, this is self-understanding, this is self-knowledge, how the mind plays a trick upon itself, by saying, I am confused, I must get out of it and so on.
Sir, a blind man seeking a way out, he has tried several ways, hurt himself against this furniture and that furniture, so he realises I won't move. First let me take my bearings, stop and then I will feel my way around, not rush into things. Right?
We are blind, we are confused. I say, look, stop a minute and feel around. You understand sir?
Don't say, 'I must do this, I must not do that, I must revolt'. But some people stop their whole lives. That's equally stupefying.
Some people say, 'I don't know what to do, I'll just stop' and they are dead. But a man who says, look, there must be a way out, I am going to find it, I don't know what it is, I am going to find it, I have tried this, this, this, it doesn't work, therefore before I do anything I won't move. Are you like that?
If you are not like that, the next question or next enquiry has no meaning. How does a confused mind know there is a way out? I am showing you sir.
How does a confused mind know its way out. No, know there is a way out. Therefore first stop.
You'll find out! Lordy, you don't do it. I still feel there is an separate entity that is not confused.
You can't get away from this feeling that there is a separate entity that is not confused. That means separate entity which is clear, which is unpolluted, which is untouched, unmarked. Now, listen to this, please listen to this, once you understand this you will never again put that question.
Now when you have a feeling that there is a separate entity, how do you know that there is a separate entity? Is it a feeling? Is it the result of your thought, your wish, your desire that there must be some way out and therefore thought invents a separate entity who is not marked?
If you know a way out you wouldn't have a separate entity. Right? Right?
Because we don't know a way out we invent a separate entity. Come on, sirs! I am sorry you are bored and yawning.
I'm not. Would you say that the trials of many paths before coming to a stop was a necessary prerequisite? I understand.
Was it necessary to go through all these various attempts to come to the point that you must stop. Must one go through all this? Now just a minute, listen.
Must you go and get drunk to know sobriety? Must you go and take drugs to know the uselessness of it? Or you know it, you see it?
I think that is a little more obvious. But the case of a person joining a society, or a church, or this sect and so on, was that a necessary prerequisite? Look sir, I have said that, the human being tries these things, he doesn't stick to one of them, he tries it, and he realises one try is good enough, one path is similar to the rest of the paths, so he says, out.
You said firstly to stop - and afterwards? I have asked the question sir, have you stopped? Sometimes, yes.
Have you stopped asking the question, or seeking the way out of this confusion? Now this next question is really very important if you have done it. If you don't do it then you are playing with words.
I have stopped because I have sought different ways and I see the futility of going to one thing after another, so I have stopped. Now the next how do you know you have stopped? How are you aware - please listen carefully, sirs, this is a really important question - who is aware that he has stopped?
Because you are watching the senses become quiet since you stopped. Yes, sir. I am asking, sir.
I understand sir. Look, how do you know you have stopped? You only know you haven't stopped, if you see yourself in relationship then you know you haven't stopped.
Yes, sir. The mind becomes quiet. Yes, sir.
Look, listen carefully, find out, don't be so quick in saying, 'the mind becomes quiet'. There is a great deal involved in this question. I can say, I don't mind being confused all the time.
Well you can say, 'I don't mind being confused all the time' - all right, sir, there is no problem. Like the man who says, 'what are you talking about confusion when I have everything I want'. You are a similar person who says, 'I am confused all the time, I don't mind' - you have no problem.
Sir, you are talking about confusion, going step by step. Is there a pattern in your mind that you are trying to give to us which we should follow? No.
Because it seems so long and so abstract. It is not long, it is not abstract, it's like going up the hill - I have to go step by step, I can't suddenly find myself at the top of the hill. I must put foot after foot.
It may sound, or it may appear long, but it is not, because you have come to a point when you have put away all the things which man has invented in order to escape from confusion - his gods, his societies, his culture, his analysis, everything you have put away. That's a tremendous thing. Then you say, how do I know - please listen - how do I know I have stopped?
Is the stoppage right through my being? You understand? Right through, or only superficial?
Because the stopping superficially is an intellectual conclusion, and therefore you are back again. But if it is both at the conscious level, at all the deeper layers, there is complete cessation of any movement, both neurologically, emotionally, verbally, in thought, there is a complete cessation of any movement that is born out of confusion. By stopping I don't believe you can relieve the state of confusion.
You are going to find out. Confusion arises from the fact that we have a choice, one way or the other. No, sir, we went through that.
We said confusion - when there is choice you are confused. Sir, if I don't know which road to take, I am confused. But if I know which road to take I am not confused.
Let me finish with that. You are going back to the old thing, which choice exists, and decision exists as long as there is confusion. Full stop.
We have been through that yesterday, you might not have been here yesterday. Stopping all movement within myself, does it mean also stopping action? I don't think so.
Find out! It seems illogical to say that I can know that I have stopped absolutely right through if we are as you say, complete confusion. Wait, sir.
No, you have realised that any movement out of confusion leads to more confusion. Right? And therefore you say, let me stop, because I can't go that way, there is no way out, I have tried that way, that way, that way, there is no way out.
I am talking about recognising the stopping. I am going to go into it, sir. Oh my goodness!
How is one to stop? One sees this body has been deformed since childhood, and one finds it difficult to breathe, and all types of psychosomatic... Then I am afraid sir. The question is, how can one who is psychosomatically damaged stop from being confused.
Wait. Has the psychosomatic activity produced this confusion? I can be ill and yet realise the confusion is not the result of my illness.
That is fairly simple, isn't it? I can have violent, deep pain and yet realise that my confusion is going on. So illness, disease, any form of psychosomatic warping can be disassociated from confusion.
This is fairly clear. So let's I realise I am confused, and out of that confusion any choice is furthering that confusion. So there is no decision.
I am confused therefore I have tried this, this, this, and I realise the futility of it. The realisation of the futility of any movement of confusion, that very fact makes the whole movement stop. Now has it stopped with you?
Has it stopped with you? No? Why not?
Wait. Somebody says to you, this is a microphone - you say, 'I don't see it, I think that is a tree'. Right?
In the same way, we have spent nearly an hour seeing the whole implication of confusion, that it is not the fault of anybody, it happens to be there, and we are concerned whether the mind can be free of it. In its attempt to be free of it - do it, watch yourself, sir, - attempt to be free of it, it has tried this, this, this, and it says, by Jove, it's no good, and stops. If you have not stopped I mean I can't go on repeating it ten times.
That means you are not associated, you are not involved in the thing that is being said, you are just looking from outside. Now has the mind realised that it has stopped right through, not superficially? Not verbally, not experimentally - I will try this and see what happens, but the realisation that any movement out of confusion only breeds more confusion, therefore seeing the fact itself brings an end to the movement.
Right? Have you done this, right through? Right?
If you have done it, are you confused? You understand this? It is only when you are moving in various directions out of confusion you know you are confused.
But when you see the fact, the futility of this movement, that very fact frees the mind from any movement, and therefore the mind is not confused. Oh, you don't see it. We come back to sensitivity.
No, it is not confused. Not comes back. You have discovered something, sir.
It's not, I am discovering it for you, you are discovering it for yourself, it's your food. You are free then. And from that non-confused mind you act.
If there is a mistake, you alter it. Wait, sir. Right?
You think you are perfectly clear, out of that clarity you act. That action is not fragmentary action, it is a total action - please listen - it is a total action, therefore not under the pressure of any culture, any society, any belief, or your personal wish, it's a total action, therefore it is complete, non-fragmentary, non-contradictory action. Right?
And therefore there is freedom in that. But you may make a mistake because it is something new you have discovered, and you have done it. But that mistake is altered instantly because you see it as a mistake.
You follow? There is constant watchfulness. You understand?
Constant watchfulness, if there is a mistake it is altered, you don't carry it over into a problem. So there is an action when a mind has completely stopped because it has realised any movement out of confusion is more confusion, therefore in that very stopping there is clarity. And therefore such action is totally complete, and therefore action doesn't produce more confusion.
Look, sir, what is happening in the world, they are trying to bring the Arabs and the Israelis together, the Russians have their own vested interest in Egypt, and the Egyptians, and the Israelis have their own interests. So it is a frightful mess that is going on, they are going to breed more confusion. Obviously.
You see that, but you don't see in yourself that you are doing exactly the same thing. Wait, sir. You are trying to oppose this confusion by another entity that says, stop it, let's clear out of this.
It is the same thing that they are doing in the Middle East. So you realise any action out of this confusion is furthering confusion. Therefore you ask quite a different question, which life is action.
Life, not life and action. Living is action. In that living there is confusion, and out of that living action brings confusion.
So you ask the question can there be an action which is always complete, which is not contradictory, which doesn't breed more problems. We say, there is, only when you realise that any action out of confusion is more confusion, therefore the mind completely totally realises. And out of that tremendous realisation of this simple fact there is a total action.
Yes, sir, wait a minute. Does not fear play a part in confusion? Of course.
Does not fear play a part in confusion. Fear is confusion. Right?
It doesn't play a part, fear has produced I am afraid what you might say, you might say I am a damn fool, and I think I am a great man, I don't want to be contradicted, therefore I am afraid, therefore I am producing confusion in myself and also in you. Right, sir? So fear, confusion all go together, it is not that fear is something different from confusion, confusion different from pleasure, confusion - you follow, it is all interrelated.
I think I have understood, I see what you have said for myself, but you just spoke of people fighting against each other, I mean this is something we really have to stop. Of course. It is dangerous.
Of course. They are trying to stop it. But, sir, students and young people are impatient, they want quick results, and so they say by throwing a bomb we will upset, and therefore violence produces more violence, violence produces repression, which is taking place - the police are getting stronger to subjugate the others.
And this battle is going on. And also there is a strange battle, a strange thing happening in America, which is, a group of people who are called 'Jesus freaks' - you have understood? Freaks who are dedicated to Jesus, which is the opposite of the Hippies - see what is happening - who don't grow long hair, who are not promiscuous, who don't drink, who don't take drugs, who don't smoke, and opposite to the Hippies, and trying to convert the Hippies to them and so on.
You follow? But aren't we in an emergency situation? Of course we are.
Wait, wait. Aren't we in emergency always? Of course, sir.
Aren't we? Only we are awake when the emergency is observable, when the bomb hits the house, or your bank, then you say, my god! But the bombs are exploding all the time around us, of which you are not aware.
The church is a bomb! The organised religions are bombs. Nationalities are bombs because they divide people, prejudice against this or that is a bomb.
You don't realise these things, you only realise when an actual bomb is thrown. Therefore one has to be aware - I won't go on. Sir, what is the roots of our emotions and feelings in our every day life?
Wait, sir. Have we finished with this? No.
Who will see the confusion? Sir, the question who will see the confusion. Nobody.
Wait, sir, go slowly, this is quite an important question, look at it. Before you said, I am confused, I, different from confusion, I want to do something about confusion, I want to get rid of it, I want to go beyond it, I am satisfied as I am with the confusion, and I have everything I want I am not confused. It's the same thing.
So when you say, I am confused, in that there is a duality. Wait. That very duality, that very division is confusion.
No, you are missing it. That very division is a product of confusion. The mind realises that division is poisonous, is a bomb.
What is the mind? K; What is the mind? What is the brain?
Sir, the brain has said, I am confused, thought. And thought says, 'I must do something about it'. Therefore there is a division.
Right? That division is a tremendous atomic bomb. Right?
That division is the most dangerous division. Realise that, see that. How do you see it?
Verbally, intellectually, or do you see it as I see this microphone, touch it, be in contact with it, smell it? You follow? You don't do all this, therefore you say, my god - you bring up the same question - who is there to realise I am confused.
What time is it? Twenty past. We had better stop.
There are going to be discussions from Sunday, next Sunday there are going to be dialogues. Now for how many days is it? Will somebody kindly tell me?
Nine days. Nine? No, no.
Now you see, watch it, that's confusion! Either you don't know, or you do know. If you know there is no confusion.
Which is it? Sunday to Sunday. Sunday to Sunday?
That means eight discussions, dialogues. Now would you like during those dialogues of eight days, one or two completely for the young? What do you say sirs?
Yes, yes. Good! So many people have asked to have interviews with me.
I am afraid it is not possible to give all the interviews everybody wants. I am awfully sorry there isn't time and also one has to do a great many other things than talk here, but those who have already got appointments, those will be continued. We are going to have seven discussions I believe, or dialogues, here - or is it eight?
Eight. Oh, my Lord! (Laughter) Eight discussions, that is dialogues, conversations, where each one of us shares what we are talking about.
It is not merely hearing a few words from each other, holding on to our opinions and judgements, but rather, in discussing, in talking over together, we begin to find out for ourselves how we think, from what point of view we look at life, how formulas, conclusions, sway or control our minds. And if we could, during these eight talks, eight discussions, go into this, into the many problems, taking one morning, or each morning a particular subject, and going into it as completely and as thoroughly as possible so that both of us understand it entirely, not only verbally, intellectually which is of course not understanding, but go beyond it. So this morning what shall we take?
How about the roots and origin of thought? About the roots and origin of thought. Yes sir?
The difference between the mind and the brain. The difference between the mind and the brain. Just a minute sir.
That gentleman. The system of meditation - is it in oneself or is it? He would like to discuss - if I understood it rightly - the system of meditation in oneself or following a particular method or a system outwardly.
Is that it? Can one make a system out of anything? Can one make any system out of anything?
What were you going to say sir? Do we make the right use of our personal faculties, capacities? Do we use them in the right way?