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Just start from there, please start from there. I have hundreds of opinions about everything and I say, 'I don't know why I have them, and I don't know how to be free of them'. Right?
So you start with not knowing. Right? Then you are able to learn.
I don't know... You get it? If you begin to say, 'I must have a few opinions, the good opinions, I'll discard the bad opinions, I'll keep those which are comforting, which are fashionable, which are satisfactory, which gratify', then you are still playing with opinions. Right?
So what am I to... I don't know how I have acquired them, I don't know what to do about them. So my mind doesn't know.
Right? See the beauty, come on, sir. Now it is capable of learning.
That is, I don't know Russian, therefore I want to learn. I want to learn. So my mind now is capable of learning, and learning then becomes a passionate thing, not why you should have opinions, or why you should not have opinions, but not knowing I want to learn, and that gives me tremendous vitality.
I don't know if you follow? It gives me tremendous weariness. Ah, because you want to solve it, you want to get rid of them.
You want to conquer them, you want to go beyond them, you want to be free of them. I don't. I know nothing about it, I don't know how I have got it, I don't know how to get rid of them, therefore I am willing to learn.
If you start from not knowing then you can put the question rightly to yourself, which brings interest. Yes, that is right. Now are we doing this together?
Please sir, this is fun then, you know. Isn't there some residue of knowledge? Wait a minute.
So you are what is the difference between knowledge and learning. Is that right sir? In learning - let us put it round the other way - in learning do you acquire knowledge and use that knowledge as a means of getting rid of the opinions?
When you look at the world you tend to see things like say, Mr. Heath, if you see politicians working, you realise this kind of energy creates problems, it doesn't solve them and this remains in the mind as knowledge. I mean one isn't just a blank state when you see this. What do you mean by that word 'knowledge' sir?
To know. I think when you see external things... Yes sir, let us go very simply at it sir.
Let's begin very simply. What do you mean by that word 'knowledge'? To know.
I know you because I met you yesterday, I know your name, I have seen your face, so I say, 'I know you'. Right? I know your name and where you live because we have been introduced, we have talked about it.
So what is that? That is a stored-up memory of yesterday's rencontre meeting and that is part of my knowledge. So knowledge is always in the past.
Right? There is always more to learn about anything. It's always...
I am adding to it, there is the adding process going on. That is, knowledge is the residue of experience, of accumulated knowledge of the race, of society, of the scientist, biotic, all that, all the accumulation of human endeavour as experience scientifically or personally, is knowledge, to which you are adding or taking away. Knowledge which has no basis, knowledge which has basis.
Right? Are you saying that knowledge and memory are the same? Yes, obviously, obviously.
If I have no memory I have no knowledge. What sir? You don't think they are the same.
I said this doesn't mean they are the same if you have no memory you have no knowledge. Knowledge can be a qualification of memory. Let's look at it.
Look at it. You have flattered me or insulted me. I react to that.
And that remains a memory, it has become my memory - your insult. And the brain retains that memory. I meet a snake or whatever it is, that is again an experience which has been transmitted to me from my generations past that it is a dangerous snake, which is knowledge.
Or I experience something totally new and remember it, the remembrance is stored in the brain and that is my memory. So knowledge is either in the books, written down by others, or by myself, and the knowledge which I have kept for myself. This is simple enough, sir.
Now is there a difference between acquiring knowledge and learning? Go on, sir. Enquire.
This is fun. Is there a structure for knowledge, a function of knowledge and the transcendence of knowledge? Yes sir, that is right.
Let's use knowledge as functional, because if I don't know how to write, I don't know how to speak, I don't know how to do a job - knowledge is necessary. To function knowledge is necessary. And is learning different from the acquisition of knowledge?
It must be. We are going to find out, we are going to learn. Please sir... Don't you ask questions out of knowledge.
You have certain pre-occupations and then you ask your question. Then you ask your question not of the past. Sir, wait.
I have no preoccupation now. All that I am concerned with now is to find out if there is a difference between knowledge and learning. That is not a pre-occupation, I want to find out.
The meaning of the word 'know' is not to acquire knowledge, there is knowing. Like the words 'Know yourself', it is not acquiring knowledge of yourself, it is something new all the time. Ah wait sir, wait, wait.
When you use the words 'Know yourself', see how complex it is. To know myself. Right?
It has been said, 'Know yourself', you said. To know myself, what does that mean? I must know myself, knowing myself means I must know myself as I am, or as I will be, or as I have been.
Right? It could mean I have organised my memory so that I can predict what I might do in the future. Yes, all that is implied.
I mean in the sense that it is fairly obvious that oneself is not an idea of oneself, so that when there is no idea of oneself, oneself is there. No, if there is no idea of oneself, is there oneself? Don't let's enter into this.
I want to stick to one thing at a time, which what is the difference, is there a difference between knowledge and learning? It seems that learning is only perception, when perception moves to conclusion then it has function which makes it knowledge. That's all.
That is - he has said it! (laughter) Need I say anything more? I see the importance of learning.
I don't know why I have prejudices, I don't know how to be free of them, so I start with not knowing, therefore my mind is capable of learning. Now I must find out the difference between knowledge and learning. Will learning bring how to be free from opinions - you follow?
- or will learning, which will be constant, in this constant movement no opinion can be formed. I don't know if you see the difference. You'd say that learning is something vital and in the present, whereas knowledge is always dead, in the past.
Always in the past - yes, that is right. First see this sir. I have caught on to something!
Knowledge I can have, knowledge how to get rid of I must struggle against them, I must control them, I must say, 'I must not have opinions', and keep on repeating, repeating, mechanically. So I say that will not free the mind from opinions. So learning implies never accumulating knowledge, never coming to a conclusion, therefore in the movement of learning how can the mind form a conclusion, or an opinion?
Are you saying... Wait. I don't know what I am saying, (laughter) I am just capturing it.
Where does necessary knowledge stop? Sir, just play with this a little. I am moving - learning implies movement, constant movement and that which is moving can never accumulate, and when you accumulate it becomes knowledge, which is necessary to function.
But in learning which is a constant movement, no opinion, no conclusion can ever be formed. Ah, I have got it! Right?
Now are we together now learning? Can you honestly and without any sense of distortion say, 'I really don't know how to get rid of opinions', and, you are beginning to learn. In learning you are asking, 'Am I accumulating'?
I know accumulation is necessary - to speak a language, to function - but in the movement of learning is the mind acquiring knowledge in order to be free of opinions? Right? But I say you have put a wrong question because in the movement of learning there can be no accumulation.
Right? Now are we doing that together now? So that you, in the movement of learning, have banished opinions, put away opinions?
But if you say, 'Wait a minute, I must get rid of opinions', you are acting from a conclusion, which is your knowledge which you have acquired in learning and therefore you have stopped. Therefore you are collecting barnacles, which are opinions. I don't know if you see.
Right? Each time I look intensely, the idea of not seeing it as a leaf - when I am seeing a leaf now I find that when I am looking, actually seeing, in this state of intensive looking I seem to not be able to see myself. It's as if I can just see the intensity of the colours and I'm not there.
There are moments when I see... Yes sir, and that of course. So what is the question sir?
I am just amazed! Ah! I understand sir.
How does one change the direction in which one learns. In learning one first chooses a direction... Ah, no. No sir, I have not chosen a direction.
Just look what has happened! We said we are going to discuss awareness - just follow this sir, put your mind to it a little bit - we said we were going to talk over together, awareness. I said, we are aware from the outside movement to the inner.
In seeing that blue colour I say, 'How terrible that colour is!' - which is the response of my conditioning, my temperament, my etc. etc.
And we never go beyond the conclusion. If we go beyond the conclusion I discover there are a thousand opinions I have, then having them I justify them, rationalise them, say these are good opinions, these are bad opinions, the bad opinions I must get rid of and I'll keep the good opinions. There are no good opinions or bad opinions, there are only opinions, which are conclusions.
They are like the currency of psychological life, you just play around with them like cigarette cards. Quite right sir. Quite right, you play with them.
Squirm with them. Squirm with them and bite with them, whatever it is. And you go further.
Say, 'How have I got these opinions?' - culture, society, the family, tradition, the mother saying, 'Do this, don't do that', the father saying, 'That is good' - you follow? - society, the culture has given me these opinions, these conclusions and now I am faced with them I say, I don't know how to get rid of them.
So I don't know how to get rid of them, there is only one I don't know. I am lazy. No, no wait, I don't know.
Then it may be I am lazy. I am lazy and decide I don't know and remain there because I am indolent, my brain is sluggish, so I say, 'I don't know, it is very nice' and remain. The brain is active, I am not going to let my stupid brain become lazy - you understand?
The brain itself now is enquiring. Now I don't know and then I what is the difference between knowledge and learning? We have explained that.
Learning is a constant movement in which at no time can it collect, which becomes knowledge, which is essential for functioning. But learning goes on and therefore in the movement of learning nothing can be collected, except as a function. As a function if you introduce opinions, the function becomes non-functional.
Right? That's all. So I have discovered all this in awareness, which is, I see all this instantly.
It takes time to explain but the perception is instantaneous and therefore doesn't require analysis. I don't know if you are getting all this. Does it require effort to keep the movement going?
Ah, does it require effort to keep learning going? What do you say? No effort at all.
Why do you say that? Chapter verse - no effort required! (laughter) What is that sir?
Chapter verse - no effort required. One is passive, one is receiving. What happens when some great cop sticks a gun in your face, what happens when the balloon goes up?
I don't know then. No, nor do I. Then why do you put the question then?
Well, because, because, because... No. It creates its own energy. Obviously.
Please, are we learning or are we just waiting to be fed? (Inaudible) How does one slow down the movement of thought so that you can observe one thought? Is that it?
Now how does one slow down thought so as to observe the movement of thought? You understand? Because thought is like a chain, going on so quickly through association, through the habit of association, thought is constantly moving and to observe it, it must slow down.
Right? And you say, 'I can't slow down, I don't know what to do'. Now we are going to learn about it.
Right sir? Learn, not form an opinion or a conclusion. Right.
How do I slow down, how does the mind slow down thought so as to observe it closely? Are you waiting for me? Wait sir, do listen quietly, we'll stick to this thing.
Are you waiting for me to tell you? What do you want to slow down thought for? What do you want to slow down thought for?
Mine crawls at snail's pace, I'd like to speed it up. The gentleman, sir, the speed of my thoughts is so rapid, so related, so sequential, logical or illogical, that I can't follow them. That is his question.
Your question may I would like to speed it up. That is quite a different matter. But sir when I observe myself, many times I am in control, I am controlling my thoughts and I know exactly what I am doing.
But when I observe myself, when I am learning about myself I see that I am the thought and I see that... That's right sir, that's right. What observes the thought? Is that thought as well?
Of course. It is just thought observing thought - how are you going to slow down thought? I am going to show - we are going to learn about it, sir.
You don't give a chance to learn. How can thought be slowed down? If you can see that thought is observing thought and the perception is instantaneous, it will work itself.
Is this a fact to you or you are just offering an opinion? That would be awareness. I don't want to be rude madam, but I am just asking, or being are you aware of the rapidity of your thoughts, and being aware of the rapidity of your thoughts you say, 'Now, is it possible to slow them down so that I can look, taste one thought completely?'
- you understand? To see the significance of one thought, all its content, its beauty or its ugliness, its depth or its shallowness - you follow? Who is it that is tasting thought?
That is just a phrase which I used to see the content of a thought, that is all. Is that thought turned back on itself? We are going to discover it sir, we are going to learn about it.
Now first of all why do I want to slow it down? Wait, wait, watch it sir. I am asking, don't answer, wait.
Why do I want to slow it down? You say, 'I want to slow it down in order to look more closely at it'. Right?
Who is the entity that is going to look at it more closely? It is still thought, the observer. It is still opinion, sir.
Yes, still an opinion. The observer says, 'I must slow it down in order to observe it more closely'. Watch this sir, watch this.
The observer is saying that. Is the observer different from the thing which he is observing? Is that a fact, not just an idea, is that a fact?
Quite different from someone who is threatening to beat me up. That is a different matter sir. It will be yes and no.
The observer and the thought would be identified as one and yet separate. I want to slow it down, my thinking, hoping thereby to observe the machinery of thinking, to observe one thought so clearly, understand it so fully that other thoughts are included in that one thought. And I say, 'Who is the person who is observing?
Is he the product of thought?' And if it is the product of thought it is the past, so the past says, 'I must watch this rapid movement of thought' - the past being inactive, thought which is the response being active. I wonder is you are getting all this!
Living - going back to the original awareness as knowledge - living for everyone is instantaneous. The awareness immediately becomes the past and you can examine that and then... No, madam, we were saying... And the forward looking is conditioned by your memory, education etc. and your knowledge and you are preoccupied with what is going to happen, but you yourself, the ego, the personality, can only be aware of a second at a time.
The rest is memory and speculation. You are saying, are you, madam, that you, the ego, the person, is only capable for a second to be aware? Of your life.
You don't know, I don't know that you might drop down dead, I might drop down dead in a second. We can only live a second minutely at a time. But madam, is that a fact?
Is that a theory, an idea, a conclusion, a hope? But actually is that a fact in my life, that I am only living for one second? You can only be aware for a second.
Ah, wait. I don't know. You see you are coming to a conclusion.
You have made a statement that you can only be aware for one second. I say, 'How do you know this?' It may not be.
Eternity is one second. You see you are using the word 'eternity', that is, to be out of time. Do you know what it means to be out of time?
- actually, not just theoretically, from a book, from somebody saying eternity, god, or the church saying eternity. For a second, once or twice in my life I have had this feeling of being out of time when my thoughts actually stood still but that was never by any kind of conscious effort, this was from some outside stimulus, fear or something of this sort. That's right sir.
That is when there is a crisis, when there is a tremendous shock, either the shock of beauty or a shock of pain, or a shock of deep challenge, thought is driven out. At that moment you feel, by Jove what an extraordinary state of intensity! Which is dependent on an external stimuli, and knowing that state, or having had an experience, you want to reach it again, then begins the whole problem.