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krishnamurti_discussions

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So it's much better to say, 'Look, I haven't seen it, I don't feel it totally, it is only a fragmentary part of me that sees it, the rest of it is in darkness, the rest of it is not aware of the danger.' Now why? But you are aware of the danger of a snake.
You follow? You are aware of it because you have been conditioned to it, haven't you? Danger, a precipice, a bus, a poison is a frightful danger, and there is instinctive protection.
Right? Now you are not conditioned - please listen to this - to the danger of competition. If you were conditioned to the danger of competition, you would not touch it.
Wait, wait, look at it. Consider it for a moment, don't raise a question, go into it. You are conditioned to the snake, you are not conditioned to the poison of competition.
So if you were conditioned to the poison of competition you would react and say, 'That's terrible.' Listen to it carefully - but we are talking about conditioning, not to competition or this or that - the fact of being conditioned. Do you see the difference?
Oh, God! No? Do you see the difference, sir?
Go slowly - I am conditioned to the snake, I'm not conditioned to the poison of competition. If I were conditioned to the poison of competition, I would avoid it, I would run away from it. Right?
Of course, it's an obvious fact. So we act only according to our conditioning. So, wait, sir, we act only according to our conditioning.
But I'm questioning all conditioning. There with the snake I see how the mind has been conditioned, through centuries of experience it has been said, snakes are dangerous. And I say, 'My god, I must be careful, I mustn't go near it' - tiger, crocodile, whatever it is.
But I have not been conditioned to the poison of competition, so I go on. Wait, wait, sir. Listen to it.
I go on. So my mind depends for right action on conditioning. You've understood?
See the importance of that. My mind has been conditioned in a myth - Christian myth or Hindu myth or whatever it is - and that has held people together, all myths have held people together for some time. And that myth has conditioned me, and I act according to that myth - communist myth or any other myth.
So I realise my mind functions only happily when it's conditioned. No? Because then I'm sure what to do.
You understand? There is no uncertainty in it. Snake is a snake - dangerous.
Competition is poisonous. To follow anybody is poisonous. So your mind constantly functions only and happily in the field of conditioning.
Right? So I am questioning the whole field, not whether it's useful or not useful. If you haven't got it, I can't go on.
Sir, the poisoning of the snake is there for everybody to see - you'd get plenty of support for that. But to see the poisoning of competition, you must see it for yourself. Yes, sir, but I'm not...
It seems I want to be competitive so I've allowed myself to be conditioned because that will help me to be competitive. Right, sir, put it that way if you want to. I can't see my conditioning.
Don't you see your conditioning when you meet a snake - have you ever met a snake, except in the Zoo? Then don't you react to it? So you're conditioned.
You have told me I am conditioned. No - I said, please, sir, I said you are conditioned with regard to the snake. You're conditioned, you're conditioned in a different way to competition - you accept it, that's your conditioning.
So you function only according to your conditioning. Obviously, sir. If you're conditioned through reward and therefore behave, you're conditioned, aren't you?
If you're conditioned through punishment to behave rightly, that's also conditioning. So I am saying, look what happens, when you are conditioned your mind is mechanical. Sir, is there any action at all that is not conditioned?
We're coming to that, sir. So your action is always based on your conditioning, pleasant or unpleasant, rewarding or not rewarding. That's a fact.
And if one's life is based on conditioning, life becomes mechanical. I'm a Christian for the rest of my life, I'm a Communist or whatever it is. I don't want to think, I don't want to observe, I don't want to go beyond the little narrow field of my conditioning.
And I say, in that lies sorrow. Right? So I say to myself - follow this - one conditioning I can understand, two I can understand, but I want to understand the whole complex conditioning.
Is that possible with one glance, not take little by little, but at one glance see the poisonous nature of all conditioning? You've got it now? (In French) I didn't say it was difficult.
You are saying it is difficult. The moment you say it is difficult you are blocking yourself. But you can't say that this conditioning is dangerous.
You can see the conditioning, but you can't say the conditioning is dangerous. I'll show it to you. Isn't nationalism one's conditioning?
Isn't it dangerous? Isn't the conditioning about some god, a belief in something - isn't that dangerous? Because you believe in something and I believe in something else, and we are at each other's throat.
So it is dangerous, isn't it? (Inaudible) 'Can't I have my own space so that I don't have to interfere with you?' You have that space in tolerance, you tolerate me outside your little space.
Isn't that dangerous? You've got to see that all your pleasures are dangerous. It is so.
Why is it so? Because if you don't get your pleasures you're annoyed, aren't you? You get angry, you get frustrated, you begin to hate - depending on the denial and the strength of your pleasure.
How can one be aware of one's brutality? Don't ask that question yet, but sir, please, first see how your mind operates. It functions what it considers happily in conditioning.
Right? The snake, and you're conditioned to be competitive, and you say, 'Let's be competitive'. You are conditioned to be nationalistic and you say, 'Let's be nationalistic,' wave the flag and fight each other - these are facts which are dangerous.
Do you see the danger of it, not verbally but actually as you see the danger of the snake? And you may not see it as the danger of the snake because you're lazy, you don't want to see it, you've all kinds of objections and reasons for not seeing it. Now to get rid of all those objections, formulations and reasons, takes time.
Right? You're meeting all this? So you would rather live, continue in the state in which you are - conditioned, creating mischief, not facing danger, and ready to be killed.
(In Italian) He says, why don't you talk about the conditioning here - I'm doing that. You are conditioned, aren't you? - as a Frenchman or as a whatever it is - you're conditioned.
And the mind takes shelter behind this conditioning because that is safe. Right? It is safe for me to call myself a Hindu.
Right? I feel protected, and that conditioning I accept and I live within that. But I don't see the danger of it.
'You are conditioned in this tent to listen to the speaker'. Are you conditioned by the words of the speaker? Are you?
We are free to come or go. We are free to come and go, the lady says - I'm not talking of that - of course you're free, nobody asks you to pay or whatever it is. Are you being conditioned by the words that the speaker uses?
Are you being conditioned by the - not ideas, the idea - I'm not conveying ideas, I'm only conveying facts, and you turn it into ideas. Facts cannot condition you. What conditions you is the opinion about the fact.
Right? (Inaudible) Yes, madam. (Inaudible) Sir, the fact is that the mind functions in habits.
Right? That's a fact. No?
But you don't see what that fact does - mechanical business, all the rest of it. Then if you see it, then you how am I to get rid of it? So you're bringing an opinion or a desire to get rid of it, whereas if you merely look at that fact without any motive, then that fact undergoes a radical change.
You don't listen I know - all right, Avi Maria. I'm aware of the fact that to approve or disapprove of behaviour is conditioning. If I don't do one or the other, the children might beat each other up.
Would you please speak about raising children? Could you talk about raising children - please! You know, that's one of the things we could talk about, which means really, are the parents educated?
- educated in the deep sense of that word, not passing some exams, getting a job and all that - I mean educated. And the parents are not educated therefore the children are not educated. So the problem arises, how to educate the parents.
Right, sir? You're a teacher. And how do you educate the parents?
They don't want to be educated, because they're completely satisfied with their jobs, with their little house, with their gossip, all the rest of it. So what is important is, the few of us here in this tent, listen to all this, not to the words, but to what is behind the word. And to see whether the mind can comprehend or be aware of the total conditioning.
Not, one should be free of it, one should go beyond it, or break it up, but to be aware of the totality of this conditioning - which means, mechanical habits, mechanical activities, slogans and all the things that follow. (In Italian) Of course, sir, of course. Bien.
That's quite right, sir. Now - we better stop, and this is the last discussion. What have you, as a human being, after listening to the seven discussions and seven talks, what have you learnt?
Please just find out - just take two minutes and find out - what have you learnt during these fourteen talks and discussions - what have you learnt? Not verbal conclusions, not ideas which you have picked up, but what have you actually learnt from it, which is yours? To be watchful all the time.
Is that all what you have learnt? What have you learnt so that your life is different? (Inaudible) Please don't tell me what you have learnt.
I'm asking, during these fourteen talks and discussions, has your life changed? Is there a psychological revolution which will affect your outward activity? Or you have gathered a few ideas - and I am not a conveyor of ideas, I'm not providing you with intellectual words and statements - we're only concerned with facts.
And during these fourteen days and fourteen discussions and talks, has your life changed, deeply? If not, why have you spent your time here? Just for amusement, curiosity?
You follow? So you have to face now for yourself, find out if your life has radically, deeply changed, or you are still playing with ideas. And if you are playing with ideas you have wasted your time - your time, your money, your energy.
And that is not the reason why we gather here every year. Why we gather, as far as the speaker is concerned, is to bring about a different generation who see things directly and act directly. Not see and act - the interval, between seeing and acting, and during that interval, all the mess arises.
So can you, when you go home, or when you walk this afternoon, find out for yourself how deeply your life is changed, or not changed. When the house is burning there is no time to discuss about the man who set it on fire - the colour of his face, whether he has long hair or short hair - you put it out. And your house is burning.
So it's up to you. This morning, if we may, we are going to have a conversation, talk over things together in a form of dialogue, to discuss, not opinions, not some kind of conclusions that you have come to, but rather go into the problems that one has, whether they are superficial or deep, and really see if we cannot radically bring about a psychological revolution in ourselves. I think it would be worthwhile and it would be also both interesting and quite fun if we could do this together.
So what shall we begin with? What shall we talk over together, like two friends, who have got the same common problem, using the same common words, without any distortion of words, without any ulterior motive, if we could so talk over things together, I think it would be worthwhile. Could we hear more of the nature of awareness?
The way you speak of it almost seems to be so pointed and direct that it is like a concentration exercise. I am sure that is wrong. Would you like to discuss that?
Would you like to talk over this question of awareness? Mr Krishnamurti, may I briefly ask you something which is a very, very common problem. A woman I know well, she is in her fifties, her husband has died of cancer, very, very painful to have cancer, very unhappy about.
She keeps on ringing up and saying, 'Oh I am so unhappy.' Yes, so you want to discuss... Can you say something, I want to say something to cheer her up. Oh.
Then go to a cinema. I am sorry I cannot possibly discuss these things to cheer people up, to give them comfort, to give them a sedative. But let us...
But you see you talk about this view, the problem outside you, so can you explain... We will go into that perhaps. If we could talk over together this question of awareness. Is that what you want to discuss?
Awareness - most people are afraid of being aware. So do you want to discuss, do you want to talk over that? Right?
Right. The meaning of that word 'aware', as far as I can make out from the dictionary, as well as from one's own interpretation of that word, is to be conscious, is to be cognisant of the things about you, and also to be aware of the movement of your own feelings and thoughts inwardly, to be aware, to be conscious, to be alert, to be in contact with, to be in relationship with the thing that you are observing, of which you are aware. I think that is the general meaning of that word.
Right? Do we all agree to the meaning of that word? Conscious of what one feels, what one thinks, conscious of the environment in which one lives, being aware of the beauty of nature - the clouds, the sky, the water, the various colours and so on and on.
Awareness is not a limitation, I am not just aware of this microphone - please listen to this, it is very interesting - I am aware of this microphone in the space which this tent holds. The microphone has its own space, it creates its own space in the space of the tent. And the outer space is beyond - to be aware of this space.
Right? To be conscious of it, to see the quality of space. I am only talking... Now shall we discuss, we will go into it.
We are generally, as the lady pointed out earlier, afraid to be aware, afraid to be aware of our environment, if we are aware, from that awareness we come to a conclusion - right? - and that conclusion puts an end to further awareness. I am not giving a talk, please, we are discussing, we are exchanging, we are exposing.
So when we say we are aware, we are aware of things very, very superficially. Right? I am aware that you have long hair, or short hair, I am aware of the colour that you are wearing.
And I react to the short hair, or the long hair, calling you a hippie, non hippie, square and you know all the rest of it. I react to it and my reaction is the response of my conditioning. The other day I saw a rather good cartoon in the New York, I think I saw it.
There was a boy and a girl standing at the window looking out on the street, and two or three hippies were walking down the street, and the boy says to the girl, 'There goes the Establishment'. (laughter) Got it? We react to any form of stimuli, that is an obvious fact.
And I am aware of that reaction but I don't penetrate further into that reaction. I am not aware what is the source of that reaction. I am aware of the reaction - like, dislike, pleasure, jealousy, hate, whatever it is - but that awareness brings a conclusion that I am angry, I like and dislike, but we don't allow that awareness to penetrate further.
Right? Now let us experiment, learn what it means to be aware of the things outwardly, that is, the tent, the various poles, the colour of the jerseys people are wearing, the coats, you know, aware outwardly. And then move from that awareness inwardly and see what our reactions are to that which we have visually perceived.
And our reactions depend on our temperament and idiosyncrasies. Right? If my temperament is artistic, whatever that word may mean for the moment, I react or I see something much more than the man who is not an artist, in a tree, in a cloud, in the curve of a branch.
And my temperament, idiosyncrasy, is the response of my conditioning also. Right? When we say, 'It is my temperament', I think it is a marvellous thing to say that, but the temperament is the response, or the reaction of my conditioning, obviously.
Right sirs, are we meeting each other? I don't want to talk all by myself. So see what happens.
I am aware of the cloud, the beauty of the cloud, the light in it, the shape of it, the glory of that extraordinary cloud, being an artist, which is my temperament, I want to express it and I pursue that expression, more and more and more. And I separate myself by my temperament from you, who are not an artist. Right?
And if I pursue that further inwardly, my conditioning is what is bringing about a temperament, a characteristic, a tendency, an idiosyncrasy. Now I want to find out further if the mind can be free from that conditioning, from all conditioning - you follow? And this is not analysis.
I don't know if you... Right? You mean, since we tend to be creatures of habit, we must have the ability to break straight through the habit.
That's right sir. To be instantaneous. That's right.
After all I am - you follow? - I am moving steadily from the outer to the inner. I don't disregard the outer, or neglect the outer; there is poverty, starvation, I am fully aware of it, I have to act about it.
I can't just say I am just aware and just sit back. I have to act. And I see this starvation, the poverty, the degradation, the horror of all poverty.
And I want to go into it, not say, 'Well, let's organise to feed the poor', or this or... I want to go to the very root of all this. So I move from the obvious to the not so obvious.
To me this whole process is to be aware, and I can't move to the root of it if there is any form of prejudice along the line. I don't know if you are... If I have any bias, an opinion, a conclusion, I can't go to the root of it.
So my concern is have I opinions - you follow sir? Have I any form of conclusions about Nixon, Heath - you follow? - about anybody?
Because if I have a conclusion, an opinion, a dogmatic, assertive attitude I can't penetrate, obviously. The mind cannot proceed further. So my awareness reveals that I have a prejudice, that I have a conclusion from which I act.
So I then pick up that opinion - you follow? - in that awareness I say, 'Why have I an opinion about something?' - you follow sir?
It is a marvellous movement of releasing energy. I don't know if you see the point. A conclusion prevents the flow of energy - get that point sir, get that point.
I am just looking at it for myself, I am getting excited about it. You mean a conclusion is... That's right. If I say, 'There is god' - finished!
Or if I say, 'Communists are terrible', or 'The Capitalists are the most marvellous group' and so on and so on, so on. So in this awareness I discover, the mind discovers that any form of conclusion, opinion, prevents the free flow of energy. Then my problem how to be free of conclusions and opinions, that's my next...
I am talking by myself, won't you join me? Can't you be unattached to opinions, like there are opinions but you don't take them seriously. I can't exactly explain it.
Why should I have opinions? I see that it is absurd to have opinions, then it doesn't matter whether one says something or says nothing. The two are just equally... Ah, no, no, no.
Look opinion is a form of conclusion, isn't it? Yes, but you are aware that that conclusion does exist in the world. Yes.
I am aware that my friend has an opinion, and therefore I realise that opinion blocks him; and I have an opinion also about somebody or other, or about something, that prevents further enquiry. So see what I have discovered. Well how do you not have opinions when you have got millions of them.
How do you not have opinions. How can you be free of opinions when you have got so many of them? You tell me.
I don't know. Wait. That is right.