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It is contradictory, what is being said, what one has accepted. Right, sir? (Inaudible) (repeating the question) One is tired at the end of this long talk.
The mind is tired, I can't absorb anymore. What time is it? I think we had better continue tomorrow morning.
No, no. You have not talked about freedom. Freedom, madam, listen to it.
Freedom is the ending of time. Swallow that! That's just it, madam.
That's the whole problem. By just listening in this tent you are not going to solve this whole problem, you have to work at it, you have to watch it, you have to see. I think we had better to stop today and we will continue with this tomorrow because it is really a very, very complex problem, and as it demands, as I said, that you must know how to look.
Please look! If you know how to look into yourself it is all there. You understand?
You don't have to read any of the psychological or philosophical books, it is all there. You may read all the technological books, scientific books, mathematics and so on, that one must. But to understand this whole question of fear one must go into it in oneself, and therefore one must know how to look at oneself.
And that is our greatest to look with clear eyes, never distorting 'what is', never distorting 'what is'. You understand? Just to look at 'what is', and then it's like, you know, then it unfolds, everything comes out, all your unconscious, everything boils out if you know how to look.
We will do it tomorrow. Shall we go on discussing, or rather talking over what we were discussing yesterday morning? We were talking about fear, and whether the mind can ever be free of it, because fear is a dreadful thing, it really paralyses one, and from fear all kinds of neurotic behaviour and action takes place.
And we went into the question of what is fear, what is the nature of it, and if one could, not merely verbally but really realise the intricacies of fear, not the many branches of it, the varieties of fear, but actually the root of it, the basis of it, the radical source of fear, then perhaps if one has given complete attention to it then one sees, as we discussed yesterday, that fear is a movement of thought and thought as time. I do not know if one has really realised it, if one has deeply felt the truth of it, and if one has, one would have seen that possession is a form of fear, and non-possession is another form of fear, which is the movement of thought which says, I must possess and then through pain it says, I must not possess, it is still the movement of thought. And there are various expressions of fear.
And it seems to me if one could really go into this question of the whole problem of whether the mind can suppress thought, whether the mind can put an end to thought, put an end to time, and whether it is at all possible to be free of the movement of time as thought and also know, or realise thought has its place, its function, and when it moves out of that area then fear and all the complications begin. I think we more or less touched that. And we said yesterday morning we would go into this question of total observation.
I think that is where more or less we left off. Shall we go on with that? Please, if you have some other question or some other thing you want to discuss, please say so because I don't specially want to go on with my own... (Inaudible) Would you please explain why you said yesterday thought cannot be arrested, stopped...
Yes, sir. There was no contradiction, I'll show it to you in a minute. The gentleman says, in what you said that thought is a movement, and that movement can never be stopped - that seems to be a contradiction, that's what the questioner says.
(Inaudible) That's what we are discussing sir. That's what we are going to take up in a minute. Can thought be stopped, arrested, put an end to, and who is it that wants to put an end to it, that desires, seeing all the complications of this movement in expression as fear, as attachment, detachment, as escape and non-escape, and all that movement, what is the entity, or the energy, or the outside agency that will put an end to this movement?
Surely it is another fragment of thought. That's fairly clear, isn't it? So thought can't come to an end.
No, please, to realise that, to realise thought has its function, obviously. When we are talking together it is the function of thought, because it uses language, the language which has been learnt, memory, stored up and it is the movement of thought in time, obviously. That must go on.
But we are saying the moment thought leaves that area then all our problems begin - the problem of possession, non-possession, fear, pleasure, and the pursuit of pleasure, achievement, competition, you know, the whole psychological complexities begin. Now can the mind keep the two things separate, but yet harmonious - like two rivers running together? That is only possible when we understand the structure and nature of ourselves.
Whether one can know or understand the extraordinary thing that we call ourselves, the 'me', the 'I', this battle that is going on all the time in us. Because life is, after all, living, in which a job - earning a livelihood, love with all its fears and its tenderness, and the question of death, and also if there is anything beyond all this, which the religions have asserted unfortunately through priests and beliefs, and dogmas and worship of symbols and all that, which becomes so utterly meaningless, whether there is something totally sacred. One can understand all this as a total movement, not of time, as a living thing, if one can know about oneself.
To observe oneself and to go beyond oneself, now can we discuss that this morning? Do you want to discuss that? Yes.
That is, we have discussed I don't know, for the last five or is it four discussions, I've forgotten - but the last time we met here, yesterday, we said we'll talk about fear, and we went into it fairly sufficiently, and this morning if we could go into this question whether the mind can know itself, its activities, its verbal structures, and non-verbal structures, its despairs, its pleasures, its continuous demand to be - if we could go into that and go beyond that, we might be able to come upon something which is not put together by thought as movement in time - something that may be, not permanent, that has nothing whatsoever to do with time. So may we go into that? Right?
Now I want to know myself. Please this is a discussion, not a talk by me. I want to know about myself.
I behave very strangely, I am antisocial, I dislike my fellow human beings, or I have got peculiar tendencies, both sexual and otherwise; I have all kinds of urges. Now can this mind know all that? Or shall I blame my parents - my parents who have quarrelled, who don't get on well together, who have bitterness, and anger, you know all that goes on in a restricted family when they are not properly responsible in their relationship.
All that and the environment - shall I put it all on the environment, on the parents? There have been a lot of books written about it, the far, deep cry, and blame - they have gone even into the crying in the womb, and the Asiatics have gone much beyond that, they say it is the past life. So your present state, the psychologists and others blame on the environment, parents, and the indefinite past; and they have written volumes about all this.
The latest volume is much the best! And we get terribly excited about it. But the fact we are what is actually going on.
It is no good blaming the parents and the environment, it is finished, they have produced you and me, whether they wanted it or not, here we are. And we must obviously, which is most reasonable and sane, start from 'what is', not go back and say, 'Well, this is the result of my mother and father who didn't put me on the pot rightly'. Right?
'Who didn't behave in front of me rightly', and so on. I think it is all so useless, because I have to take what I am and deal with it, which is most practical, sane and objective. And that can produce immediate action.
But if I keep on blaming the environment, and my parents, and you know, the past, I can go on playing that game everlastingly, and never change 'what is'. Right? So can we in this talking over together stop all the blaming, or saying the environment, the parents, the past, has made you this.
All right, it has made me this, I want to start from here. Right? Can we do that?
So I want to know what is going on now, not what has produced it. I don't have to go to Africa to study the gorillas and the apes in order to understand myself. I can start with myself because myself is the result of the culture, the environment, the parents, the society, the tradition, all the superstitions, the beliefs, the propaganda of two thousand years, or ten thousand years, I am the result of all that.
Right? And therefore I am the world and the world is me. That's not a verbal statement but an actual fact.
And I feel that most urgently. Now, we'll start from there. Can we start from there?
So you are not blaming the parents. (Laughs) Please see the importance of it. You are not blaming anybody for your actual behaviour, for your neurotic thoughts, for your antisocial or neurotic activity; it is there.
Now the problem from that arises - I'm giving a talk, nobody is discussing! I'll stop in a minute - the problem arises from what is the mind to do with 'what is', how is it to go beyond 'what is'? Right?
Am I - when I'm talking about 'I' it is quicker - is the mind aware of its neurotic behaviour, aware of its sexual demands, perverted or otherwise, its ambitions, its crude violence and subtle forms of violence? Is it aware of its gestures, words, drive, instincts? Is one aware of it?
Are you aware of it? Come on sirs, let's discuss this. If one is aware of it, what is one to do?
You understand sir? This is the major problem in life - not being able to solve this we then look to extraneous outside agency to solve this, blame it on the environment, on education, on the parents, on the culture, wrong education, you know, all that arises. So what is one to do with 'what is'?
And does the mind know what is actually going on? Is the mind aware when I make a gesture? Is the mind aware of its occupations - whatever they sexual, religious occupations, Jesus, Krishna, or whatever it is, its ambitions, corruptions, you know, is it aware of this?
Are you aware of this? If you are not, what is going to make you aware? More experience?
Please, go on, discuss with me. (Inaudible) (Sound of train) Let the train make its noise, sir. We are saying, are you aware of all this?
And if you are not, what will make you aware of it? More suffering? How else?
Suffering makes you aware. If everything goes well you don't observe yourself. When there is suffering then you observe yourself.
I see, if everything goes well, you don't observe yourself. When there is suffering, then you observe yourself. So you need more suffering, is that it?
You need somebody to goad you, is that it? So what is your mind going to do if it is aware of itself with 'what is'? And if it is not aware of itself, will any form of outside incidents, accidents, happenings, sorrow, disease, will that make you more aware?
As that gentleman pointed out, suffering will do it; if everything is going smoothly we won't be aware. It is only when we are suffering that the sudden shock of it and the paralysis of sorrow and the coming out of it, then escaping from that, finding reasons and the cause and all that business, why you suffer, does that make you aware? So what makes one aware?
What makes one aware of what is going on within and without? When you come to yourself. When I come to myself.
Now, I haven't come to myself, but what is going to make me? Please understand this problem because we are all in that. We are either being forced by environment, by another, by a book, by something or through something or other we are being forced to be aware.
Right? Therefore what does that do? When I am forced to be aware - you understand?
- what happens to my mind, what takes place? You become aware of... No, sir. Do watch it.
Please watch yourself. When you depend on external stimuli to be aware what takes place? I get blocked.
You are blocked. When your awareness depends on a stimuli what takes place in your mind? Do examine it, sir, don't answer me.
I am forcing you now. (Laughs) Right? I am forcing you, I am stimulating you, I am urging you.
Wait, sir, what takes place? I depend on the stimulation. (Inaudible) Wait a minute, madame.
There is somebody ahead of you. Sorry. That means what?
When there is a stimulation from outside what takes place? You are saying you depend on that stimulation. Right?
So you depend on the priest - right? - on a book, on a belief, on a person, environment, culture, and because you have depended on the environment, culture, people, and so on, what has taken place? Listen, what has taken place?
You are not aware. Isn't it very simple? So I've discovered something, you have discovered something, which is, when you depend on a stimuli, on pressure, influence, threat, punishment, reward, then you depend on it and that very dependence causes fear and so gradually you are totally unaware.
When the mind says, I must not depend... Wait, wait. I am coming to that sir.
I'm coming to it in a... Just look what has happened. I have depended on you to be stimulated, to be aware - whether you, the symbol, the church, whatever it is - I have depended on you. And therefore I become attached to you, I must possess you.
Right? And the possession becomes much more important than being aware. Just a minute, sir I'll finish this.
So at the end of all this I am totally unaware. I accept because I have been educated, my culture says depend on stimuli and so on, so at the end of it all I am a dull, unaware person accepting things which others say is right, including the politicians, including all the rest of it. Yes sir?
Isn't it a paradoxical situation of our relationship to fear. It comes to that, sir. So what am I?
And am I aware of what I am independent of any stimuli? Because the moment I depend on it I am lost. Right?
That's clear. Now why am I not aware? Aware of what is going on within me, all the intricacies, the explanations, the cause, the descriptions, I am aware of this area.
And if you are not, who is going to do it? If you depend on it you are destroyed. So do you see all this?
Do you realise what is happening to the human mind? Instead of education making you much more aware, more alert, more observant, on the contrary it is destroying - except in a certain area. Religions, all that, are making the mind accept, imitate, conform, and not be aware.
Now do you see that? When you follow an authority that is exactly what is gong on - right? - the authority of the church, temple, whatever it is, the book, including the speaker's authority.
Are you aware of this, aware of what is happening to you when you depend, on alcohol, LSD, pot, and so on and so on? Now, not being dependent on stimuli then what is - please listen - then what is the quality of awareness? You understand?
It is not dependent on sorrow because again it is an incident outside, it is not dependent on any stimuli, but it is aware, it is aware of what is going on. What is the quality of that awareness? Come on, sir...
Curiosity. Curiosity. It is really very interesting this, if you go into it.
We have depended on outward or every kind of stimuli and that has made us unaware. That's a fact. The more I drink, the more I become unaware.
But at the beginning it kind of stimulates me and I gradually - you know what takes place. Now what is the quality of awareness that is not the result of any stimuli and is that possible? (Inaudible) Don't use... sir, please, if I may most respectfully suggest, don't just use words, find out!
So I must first realise that so far I have depended on external stimuli to become aware, to find out why I suffer and so on and so on, so on, and I see the absurdity of it, the foolishness of it, what it does to one, therefore it falls away from me, completely falls away from the mind, it is no longer dependent. (Inaudible) Please, just examine what takes place. You are dependent, aren't you?
You go to church, you read a book, you are sitting there listening to this poor chap talking, you are stimulated by music, cinema. And I am asking you if you are not stimulated by an outside agency then what is the quality of this awareness - which means you must be totally free of the external stimuli - are you? No.
No. Therefore are you aware - please proceed - are you aware that you are dependent on external stimuli, and do you realise the destructive quality of it - non-verbally, but actually realise it, as a poison you realise it? And when you do it is finished, isn't it?
Sometimes. Not sometimes, for god's sake! Yes, sir.
Most of us have got an image of you and are dependent on it. What are we going to do with it? I am destroying that image.
The gentleman says most of us have got an image of you. Dependence. Dependence, same thing.
Most people here are dependent on you. And what are you going to do about it. I can't do anything about it, but you can do a lot about it.
Because I abhor, to me authority in any form in this field is poisonous, therefore I won't go near it. But even without being an authority you are stimulating us, that is there. Therefore I am asking, sir, are you aware that an outside agency is stimulating you?
Is all life - please listen, not only now in this tent - is all life a movement of stimulation and response to that stimulation? Possibly. Do find out, please.
Then what takes place? Then we are merely entities of chance - isn't it? - of happenings, of incidents, of words, of ideas, which are all just meaningless.
Are you aware of this? Look sir, if you are dependent on the speaker to be stimulated to think - whatever it is - stimulated, what takes place? You depend on the speaker, the speaker becomes the authority, you create an image, put a candle in front of him, or do whatever you want to do, and you are stuck, you are crippled, you are destroyed.
Therefore are you aware of this? And from that I am going to ask another is all life, living, dependent, like this? - stimuli, reaction, and from that reaction other series of causes and effects, and therefore just endlessly moving in a vicious circle without an ending.
I don't know if you follow all this? That is our life. That is your life.
Now what are you going to do about it? To me - I wish I could talk about myself, I don't, it's no good talking about myself. To depend on an external stimuli does not bring a quality of awareness that is clear - you understand?
- that is sharp, intrinsic, in itself it is like a blossoming of a thing without any roots. You understand? Oh for god's sake!
So are you aware that you are being stimulated by the speaker to think differently, to act differently and therefore gradually he becomes the image, the symbol, the perfume, the goal, you know, and therefore you are just like another group of people stimulated by another beastly little guru, or another priest. That's all. So I am asking, are you aware of this?
And if you are, then you are no longer stimulated, therefore what is the quality of that awareness that is not the product of a stimuli? You understand? Come with me, please, I want to move.
I am aware of external stimuli off and on, then I say I must be aware. No, don't, not, 'I must be aware'. Are you aware, sir, of that noise of the aeroplane?
You don't say, 'I must be aware'. Are you aware of the song of that stream? Are you aware of the shirt, or whatever the lady has put on, the colour of that person sitting next to you - what she looks like, what he looks like, whether they are suffering - are you aware of all this?
Not, 'I must be aware', that has no meaning. I am attached to myself. No, sir, sir, look, you mean to say you don't see those, you are not aware of those hills and mountains?
I am aware of them. You are aware. So you say, 'I am not aware because I am attached'.
However much I am attached to myself I look. No, sir, don't make this so childish for god's sake! All right, I see you can't run with something that is so good.
So instead of blaming the past, see that education, that society, the economic condition, the culture, the whole educational system has made our minds astonishingly dull and unaware. Right? Because it is said, depend, read books, go to - you follow?.
Now, being aware of it naturally it drops off, if you are interested in it. From there let's proceed. Without blaming my parents or the past I see what I am.
Now the problem then what am I to do with 'what is'? You understand? What am I to do with my neurotic thoughts, habits, with my superficial verbalisation of life, my suffering, my inanities, my absurd trivialities, my angers, jealousies, greed, what am I to do, how am I to go beyond it?
You understand, sir? Now tell me what to do. Nothing.
Look at it. The gentleman says, nothing. You say look at it.
What do you mean by 'nothing'? Just accepting things as they are? Really look.
Just be aware that you are not aware. Oh lord! I was told yesterday that I was terribly patient!