jkruk/dw_communities_content · Datasets at Hugging Face

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She "broke quarantine" by stepping over a line made of yellow tape. She argues and makes a legit point, the authorities even acknowledge they're just following orders (I remember another group that used to say that too). I'll gladly retract if you can show me she broke quarantine and that's what led to her "arrest" AKA kidnapping. But the fact you're dying on this hill of no covid camps is so strange to me, because it wasn't even like they were hiding them, it was well known.	walkaway
Again, show me where she broke the rules (she's Australian and was working there during this time, not just visiting so that argument is moot) and I'll gladly concede and feel good about learning something new. But what the video shows is pretty totalitarian. If you can prove me wrong though, hats off.	walkaway
The video:	walkaway
I even did that for this person and they never responded lol. I did it in the nicest way possible too.	walkaway
Can you please tell me more about this chatgpt detector? I would love to use it.	walkaway
I saw reddit transform in 2016. Correct The Record moved in. Then "Share Blue" moved in and the place changed forever.	walkaway
I recently started paying more attention. I've noticed a lot of similarities with what I epxerienced in 2016, and after Trump was sworn in with what I see in the users I question today.	walkaway
I remember when r/the_donald was always on the front page. Then reddit changed the algorhythm to keep them off the front page. Then they just started changing all kinds of stuff on the site, until we get what we see today.	walkaway
I was around and I remember all the changes they made to reddit's code to quarantine the\_donald. I know it didn;t stop with what I saw,	walkaway
Anyhow, I would love to know more about this AI detector you speak of.	walkaway
> Run the top comments through a chatGPT detector, you'll have a hard time finding a real person.	walkaway
I tried this in 4 different, highly upvoted threads and nothing was detected as AI. What detector are you using?	walkaway
It doesn’t work anymore because Reddit doesn’t want you to know how many bots are on here. Just like how Twitter didn’t want Elon to know 90% of Twitter was bots. They told him it was 5%. Reddit most likely has similar figures.	walkaway
A custom python script that my programmer-cousin wrote (he works for google, he knows how to code very well haha). I know zerogpt claims they have a 98% accuracy rate but with reddit's new API changes it'll show human-written every time, it essentially took away all transparency. This script I use bypasses those restrictions.	walkaway
I just wrote an entire response to your comment (not the one below, that was me) using chatgpt and ran it through zerogpt and it said 100% human lmao. The API change made it so bots can run the whole site, and the algorithm change compliments it perfectly. Try it for yourself; write something with chatgpt then run it through zerogpt.	walkaway
Yea, I'm not surprised. They change things when we get wise to what's going on. No surprise.	walkaway
That sounds incredibly made up my man. Even if it's not the claim is all but useless since nobody but you or your cousin can verify it.	walkaway
And this will probably get little to no media coverage. Lmao	walkaway
I looked up some of the costars in the video in the credits. I can post a link to the video as well. But one of them, well, see for yourselves.	walkaway
Leftist deviants. Imagine my shock.	walkaway
Shocking ! A google search regarding this yields no results	walkaway
Who the hell uses their real name in porn?	walkaway
Hasn't yet.	walkaway
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Ukraine is (and has been for years) a massive money laundering operation for the political and business elite. Money would flow into the country as "aid" and "investment" and be kicked back in the form of positions on boards (ex: Hunter Biden on the board at Burisma). The kickback channels are varied and not always obvious, but they're certainly there.	walkaway
There are three reasons that the western world is defending Ukraine, and none of them have to do with checking Russia	walkaway
1. Protect the gravy train. If Russia conquers Ukraine, the money flow stops	walkaway
2. Even MORE kickbacks via the "military aid" bonanza. If you thought the money going in for the energy industry before the was was big, look at how much is flowing in now. Even a few percent skimmed off the top is HUGE for the corrupt politicians and oligarchs on the take.	walkaway
3. Keep the skeletons in the closet. If Russia conquers Ukraine, there's a very good chance that they would air any dirty laundry they found. If they had information that could indisputably prove that large segments of the governments of the US and western Europe were on the take from Ukraine, they would either publicly release it to destabilize those governments, or NOT release it in order to use it as leverage against those politicians/governments.	walkaway
there are six NATO countries that border Russia and none of them are Ukraine	walkaway
These points are extremely stupid, how is the war USA's fault? I think you are all forgetting that Russia is Russia and they have already invaded Georgia in 2008 and Crimea which is a part of Ukraine in 2014, what makes you think this time USA is at fault? Besides, Russia is already bordering 4 NATO member states. The point about making them look strong is laughable because they have been humiliating themselves with how incapable their army is for over a year now	walkaway
[removed]	walkaway
Ukraine is the only place in the world where liberals aren’t biased against conservatives or nationalists.	walkaway
I’m sorry, you’re blaming Ukraine and America for Russia’s invasion? How in the world is guaranteeing independence casus belli in any way, shape, or form? It is no threat to Russia to have NATO on its border unless it was planning on invading that country anyway…	walkaway
Ukraine is relevant to us for the same reason they are being invaded. They’re on Russia’s border.	walkaway
Your last two points are just laughably false. Anyone who has paid even a modicum of attention to the war knows that it has completely exposed Russia as a paper tiger and nowhere close to being a near-peer enemy. They can’t even properly equip their soldiers.	walkaway
Appeasement? Have you ever even picked up a history book?	walkaway
When did communists become welcome on this sub?	walkaway
I’m against this war too but no offence some of your points are a bit odd.	walkaway
1) The US technically borders Russia, as do Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Norway (Lithuania, Poland by Kaliningrad). Admittedly, some of these aren’t great borders which would serve as an axis of attack, but some absolutely are. The geographic location of Ukraine is somewhat relevant but the nature of Ukraine as a country is what is important: Heartland of the Slavs, Europe’s breadbasket (which is important to Russia as China and Russia try to build relations with African nations by giving them grain)	walkaway
2. Not knowing the history of Europe is not a point of pride. The US is effectively a global empire. Conflict across the globe absolutely is its concern if you wish the US to retain its position as the global hegemon.	walkaway
3. Ukrainians are our people but Israelis are???? What.	walkaway
You need to read up on Russia and how they wage war and handle their logistics and maintenance, they are -terribly- equipped to manage an offensive conflict against anyone who has any skill or quality of weapons.	walkaway
Russia uses the old soviet doctrine (because of the same budget problems the USSR had) in preparing for a cheap defense. They don’t project power well at all.	walkaway
They do not have air dominance, the best the hope for is air denial with their potent mobile SAMs, but to use them you have to take the ground to be able to deny the air, and Russia cannot. Why?	walkaway
Because they built their military to be moved and supplied by rail, and the freaking rails stop at the Russian border. They don’t use enough service and fuel trucks, they don’t do their maintenance, and they can’t keep supplies flowing.	walkaway
Also because their main focus has been a lot of low end tanks and artillery which are best used on defense.	walkaway
So Russia was never going to win, and the longer this goes the worse it goes for Russia, not Ukraine	walkaway
I mean seriously, put down the pro Russia propaganda effort. In the West, Abrams, Leopards and Challengers are entering Ukraine, older models of the finest battle tanks in the world.	walkaway
From the East Russia was sending in T-62s, now they are sending in T-54/55s.	walkaway
How exactly do you think that battle will go? For that matter, why do you think Russia has nothing better to send than Korean War era tanks from storage? Do you really think that is a sign of hidden strength?	walkaway
Are you serious?	walkaway
1- You think Russia is defending itself with a war of aggression? Russia’s behavior demonstrates why NATO is important. It isn’t an offensive treaty organization, it is defensive in nature. Russia attacked Ukraine to try and take it before they joined NATO, closing the door on such aversion.	walkaway
2- And? What about Europe in WW2? You would not have liked Ronald Reagan and the Reagan doctrine much. We are helping a people to defend themselves. We tried in Afghanistan and they were never willing to fight for themselves, Ukraine is willing to, and is winning.	walkaway
3- No, Russia will not take Ukraine, unless you are one of the people who say something like “Russia will take Ukraine” while meaning Russia might hold onto some small parts of Ukraine. Russia won’t even hold Crimea, it is just a matter of time.	walkaway
As to appeasing, please read up on Neville Churchill and what he did to cause WW2 in appeasing Hitler. You stop tyrants, you don’t appease them.	walkaway
Russia is losing, you don’t have to have courage, Ukraine has enough. But for the love of god please find some of it to support people defending themselves against the aggression of a tyrant.	walkaway
1. "Russia is invading because Ukraine is trying to get the US to secure its independence" ok? Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can make its own choices. If Ukraine is so desperate to secure its independence against Russian aggression, that is Russia's fault, not the US's or Ukraine's. Maybe the Russians should have treated them better back when Ukraine WAS part of Russia.	walkaway
2. "Ukraine is not relevant to us" its true that Ukraine is not the same country as America, but we gave our word to defend them and it is our duty to keep the dignity of our word in tact (if we want to maintain favorable relations with the rest of our partners). Furthermore, Russia's main geopolitical goal since its founding has been to secure its western borders with Europe (via the carpathian mountains in Eastern Poland and Northern Romania) which is why both Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union pursued both. If Russia takes Ukraine, they will attack Poland and Romania next, which are both NATO countries and bring us into an actual war. Also, its not wise for the US to grant Russia control over a country that is one of the world's main food exporters (Ukraine), since the US can better leverage trade if Ukraine is under its own influence.	walkaway
3. "Appeasing Russia makes America look strong. Standing up to them makes them look weak" This doesn't even make any sense. Its literally the exact opposite. Not only that, but if anything Russia has proven themselves to be terrible at fighting. Their demographic decline also dooms them to collapse within the next half century so its not like they can be a threat for much longer either.	walkaway
We are in Ukraine because Biden owes them money.	walkaway
>The moment Ukraine joins NATO, Russia will effectively have an American allied country DIRECTLY ON ITS BORDER	walkaway
This is an empty Russian argument. Ukraine was many years from joining NATO. Poland and the Baltic countries, all of whom share a border with Russia, have been NATO members for years. Finland, which shares a huge border with Russia, just joined--there are NATO missiles 250 miles from Saint Petersburg. I didn't see Russia invading any of them.	walkaway
The most ridiculous aspect of this is that since Russia started the war last year two new countries have joined NATO (Sweden later this year). Russia now has more NATO breathing down its neck, not less.	walkaway
>I couldn't even find Ukraine on a map until recently	walkaway
Speak for yourself. Maybe pick up a book.	walkaway
Ukraine is more relevant than most countries in Europe specifically because of the invasion.	walkaway
>Helping Ukraine makes Russia look strong and America look weak	walkaway
The war has shown the exact opposite. Russia claimed they'd take Kyiv in three days. They've given up 20% of the territory they initially took. Their losses are huge, and the economic sanctions are finally having an effect. Russia is losing.	walkaway
It's basically the Cuban missile crisis backwards.	walkaway
Dont need to tell me about it. I just told a Ukrainian the other day i didnt want to fund his war and that he needed to pick up a gun and fight if hes was worried about his country being invaded.	walkaway
#Russia invaded a country. There is only one right side and that's the one that is not Russia.	walkaway
I’m trying to figure out how everyone knew that Russia was the bad guy so fast. I remember when the war was first announced. Literally minutes later the net was full of “fuck Russia” posts. Even people I knew were immediately on the bandwagon. How did everyone know so fast? I asked people this only to have them respond “because the news said…”	walkaway
Ukraine was known as the bread basket of the Soviet Union back in the day and most Ukrainians had no love for Russians. They felt exploited and right so. Their territorial concerns have been more thab valid since Russia annexed part of Ukraine many years back. It was in their interest to pursue alliances to protect their sovereignty. With where the current battle lines are drawn it is absolutely not a given that Russia will prevail. The original premise presented by OP is super dumb.	walkaway
Point one has some validity, our corrupt politicians launder money through Ukraine, we as did the Russians meddled in Ukraine elections. Point two is childish and doesn’t make sense. Point three doesn’t make sense. Russia’s economy is not robust, it’s oil, they simply want Ukraine’s oil and run their pipes through it. Technically they have the parts of Ukraine they want already they have one but Russia looks terrible, Wagner turning on Moscow, not completely over running Ukraine in months.	walkaway
“Makes Russia look strong” as they are loosing to one of the poorest European countries and left over US military surplus	walkaway
Hard disagree my man, super hard to side with you when you’re crying out for more Israeli support. Israel is an apartheid state, fuck those fools.	walkaway
That said, I agree with point 3 until we consider that another nation is 100% going to dedicate troops on the ground to the Ukraine war. It will probably be Americans honestly. There’s no way the powers that be let Russia win after all the resources that have been poured in. It would be a massive waste and yes, make us look weak, if we allow Putin to win the war. I don’t support sending troops at all, but i feel it’s inevitable	walkaway
“I couldn’t even find Ukraine on a map until recently.” This isn’t the flex you think it is. It’s amazing that you have such a strong opinion on this issue considering you don’t even have a grasp of elementary geography. Lmao	walkaway
Funny you say that. When I worked in IT and we dealt with hackers guess where we almost always traced them to? Ukraine.	walkaway
2 is what most people fail to grasp. People in power are willing to waste billions in productivity in order to make a few millions. I say productivity because money is essentially created so money is not really wasted. Rockets worth hundreds of thousands are just expanded on both sides destroying buildings that will be rebuilt using more money. Essentially they are just keeping us busy building and repairing things. Imagine the quality of life we would all enjoy if we were not needlessly destroying stuff. Of course, this would be at the expanse of the elite’s lavish lifestyle… and they don’t want that… so war it is. Makes me sick.	walkaway
4: In 2010 it was discovered that massive natural gas deposits, 13th largest in the world by estimates but rumored could be ashigh as 5th. In 2012 the pro Russian government of Ukraine agreed to not undercut russias nat gas exports into Europe in exchange for Russia placing the infrastructure to drill for it and refine it. 2012 also when hunter got on the board of the gas company burisma. 2014 a "spontaneous" coup overthrows the government of Ukraine only to have a pro west candidate installed. Over the next 6 years Ukraine is named consistently the most corrupt country in the world.	walkaway
Now here's the real reason we're in Ukraine. The west and the rest of the world never truly recovered from the 2008 mortgage crisis. They just took the toxic debt and began burying it in markets across the globe. When Ukraine was projected to make trillions in the future the investment banks wanted to purchase futures to off set losses (Imagine mortgaging your car your 3 payments behind on cover a bet that your sure you're gonna win). Problem was Ukraine was gonna mete it out alittle at a time, not nearly enough to cover the massive debt so the west intervened to allow for the futures to be sold recklessly. Right now there is over 6 trillion in assets from all over the world tied into the hypothetical aluminum of Ukraines gas futures. That's why they are throwing taxpayer money at Ukraine like dollar bills at a cheap stripper. They can't afford to lose those futures or the whole corrupt system will collapse.	walkaway
This is the real list.	walkaway
A lot of what’s in the OP is chamberlain-level failed policy.	walkaway
Appeasing expansionist tyrants is never a good strategy, because it just delays the inevitable conflict while giving the tyrant more time to gain strength.	walkaway
Including freaking US of A. I'm so tired of the Russian shills repeating that idiocy about NATO being on the LITERAL border Russia even though it was there from the start	walkaway
crimea was inexcusable but georgia was led by a pro western nationalist and coincidentally russian peacekeepers in disputed territories were attacked, even the western bootlicking wikipedia says russia might not be responsible, if they did actually attack first they have no one to blame but themselves	walkaway
It’s sad. I saw someone here with a Ronald Reagan flair shilling for Russia, Reagan would have absolutely supported Ukraine.	walkaway
>It is no threat to Russia to have NATO on its border	walkaway
Yeah totally not threatening to build missile silos in Ukraine capable of striking Moscow in under 30 minutes.	walkaway
The US didn't allow that to happen in Cuba. Why would Russia allow it in Ukraine?	walkaway
"I couldn't even find Ukraine on a map until this happened ". Dont waste your time on people like this friend. Ukraine is an independent country, Russia invaded it. This is very similar to the liebensraum arguement that the 3rd Reich used. Also, I'm in Canada, which has the largest Ukrainian diaspora in the world. How anybody can be against supporting them against invasion is absolutely flabbergasting.	walkaway
Imagine Russia having biolabs on our border, and not doing anything about it.	walkaway
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Before the 2012 revolution in that country, Ikraine was (just barely) pro-Russian. The US orchestrated that revolution; training, funding, supplies, etc; hell, once the docs are finally unclassified, we'll finally be able to openly admit to the several thousand (some reports put it as high as 10K) SF troops we had there, "observing", which for several decades has been code for CIA ops.	walkaway
The end result of putting a pro-US govt was that several treaties Ukraine had with Russia were going to be ended 8-10 years earlier than the agreements were supposed to. And Ukraine was going to keep everything within it's borders. But the civil war wasnt settled; hence 1/3rd of the country declaring independence and asking to join the Russian federation (and be protected by them).	walkaway
The US didnt light this dumpster fire, but it did pour every drop of gas it could find onto that fire. The only part of this war that isnt going according to plan is that it was supposed to start five years earlier than it did. It was supposed to be obama's way to pull out of the middle east without loss of face; "our European allies are more important" would be the argument.	walkaway
>The US technically borders Russia	walkaway

She "broke quarantine" by stepping over a line made of yellow tape. She argues and makes a legit point, the authorities even acknowledge they're just following orders (I remember another group that used to say that too). I'll gladly retract if you can show me she broke quarantine and that's what led to her "arrest" AKA kidnapping. But the fact you're dying on this hill of no covid camps is so strange to me, because it wasn't even like they were hiding them, it was well known.

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Again, show me where she broke the rules (she's Australian and was working there during this time, not just visiting so that argument is moot) and I'll gladly concede and feel good about learning something new. But what the video shows is pretty totalitarian. If you can prove me wrong though, hats off.

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The video:

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I even did that for this person and they never responded lol. I did it in the nicest way possible too.

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Can you please tell me more about this chatgpt detector? I would love to use it.

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I saw reddit transform in 2016. Correct The Record moved in. Then "Share Blue" moved in and the place changed forever.

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I recently started paying more attention. I've noticed a lot of similarities with what I epxerienced in 2016, and after Trump was sworn in with what I see in the users I question today.

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I remember when r/the_donald was always on the front page. Then reddit changed the algorhythm to keep them off the front page. Then they just started changing all kinds of stuff on the site, until we get what we see today.

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I was around and I remember all the changes they made to reddit's code to quarantine the\_donald. I know it didn;t stop with what I saw,

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Anyhow, I would love to know more about this AI detector you speak of.

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> Run the top comments through a chatGPT detector, you'll have a hard time finding a real person.

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I tried this in 4 different, highly upvoted threads and nothing was detected as AI. What detector are you using?

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It doesn’t work anymore because Reddit doesn’t want you to know how many bots are on here. Just like how Twitter didn’t want Elon to know 90% of Twitter was bots. They told him it was 5%. Reddit most likely has similar figures.

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A custom python script that my programmer-cousin wrote (he works for google, he knows how to code very well haha). I know zerogpt claims they have a 98% accuracy rate but with reddit's new API changes it'll show human-written every time, it essentially took away all transparency. This script I use bypasses those restrictions.

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I just wrote an entire response to your comment (not the one below, that was me) using chatgpt and ran it through zerogpt and it said 100% human lmao. The API change made it so bots can run the whole site, and the algorithm change compliments it perfectly. Try it for yourself; write something with chatgpt then run it through zerogpt.

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Yea, I'm not surprised. They change things when we get wise to what's going on. No surprise.

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That sounds incredibly made up my man. Even if it's not the claim is all but useless since nobody but you or your cousin can verify it.

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And this will probably get little to no media coverage. Lmao

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I looked up some of the costars in the video in the credits. I can post a link to the video as well. But one of them, well, see for yourselves.

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Leftist deviants. Imagine my shock.

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Shocking ! A google search regarding this yields no results

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Who the hell uses their real name in porn?

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Hasn't yet.

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Ukraine is (and has been for years) a massive money laundering operation for the political and business elite. Money would flow into the country as "aid" and "investment" and be kicked back in the form of positions on boards (ex: Hunter Biden on the board at Burisma). The kickback channels are varied and not always obvious, but they're certainly there.

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There are three reasons that the western world is defending Ukraine, and none of them have to do with checking Russia

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1. Protect the gravy train. If Russia conquers Ukraine, the money flow stops

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2. Even MORE kickbacks via the "military aid" bonanza. If you thought the money going in for the energy industry before the was was big, look at how much is flowing in now. Even a few percent skimmed off the top is HUGE for the corrupt politicians and oligarchs on the take.

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3. Keep the skeletons in the closet. If Russia conquers Ukraine, there's a very good chance that they would air any dirty laundry they found. If they had information that could indisputably prove that large segments of the governments of the US and western Europe were on the take from Ukraine, they would either publicly release it to destabilize those governments, or NOT release it in order to use it as leverage against those politicians/governments.

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there are six NATO countries that border Russia and none of them are Ukraine

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These points are extremely stupid, how is the war USA's fault? I think you are all forgetting that Russia is Russia and they have already invaded Georgia in 2008 and Crimea which is a part of Ukraine in 2014, what makes you think this time USA is at fault? Besides, Russia is already bordering 4 NATO member states. The point about making them look strong is laughable because they have been humiliating themselves with how incapable their army is for over a year now

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[removed]

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Ukraine is the only place in the world where liberals aren’t biased against conservatives or nationalists.

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I’m sorry, you’re blaming Ukraine and America for Russia’s invasion? How in the world is guaranteeing independence casus belli in any way, shape, or form? It is no threat to Russia to have NATO on its border unless it was planning on invading that country anyway…

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Ukraine is relevant to us for the same reason they are being invaded. They’re on Russia’s border.

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Your last two points are just laughably false. Anyone who has paid even a modicum of attention to the war knows that it has completely exposed Russia as a paper tiger and nowhere close to being a near-peer enemy. They can’t even properly equip their soldiers.

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Appeasement? Have you ever even picked up a history book?

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When did communists become welcome on this sub?

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I’m against this war too but no offence some of your points are a bit odd.

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1) The US technically borders Russia, as do Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Norway (Lithuania, Poland by Kaliningrad). Admittedly, some of these aren’t great borders which would serve as an axis of attack, but some absolutely are. The geographic location of Ukraine is somewhat relevant but the nature of Ukraine as a country is what is important: Heartland of the Slavs, Europe’s breadbasket (which is important to Russia as China and Russia try to build relations with African nations by giving them grain)

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2. Not knowing the history of Europe is not a point of pride. The US is effectively a global empire. Conflict across the globe absolutely is its concern if you wish the US to retain its position as the global hegemon.

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3. Ukrainians are our people but Israelis are???? What.

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You need to read up on Russia and how they wage war and handle their logistics and maintenance, they are -terribly- equipped to manage an offensive conflict against anyone who has any skill or quality of weapons.

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Russia uses the old soviet doctrine (because of the same budget problems the USSR had) in preparing for a cheap defense. They don’t project power well at all.

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They do not have air dominance, the best the hope for is air denial with their potent mobile SAMs, but to use them you have to take the ground to be able to deny the air, and Russia cannot. Why?

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Because they built their military to be moved and supplied by rail, and the freaking rails stop at the Russian border. They don’t use enough service and fuel trucks, they don’t do their maintenance, and they can’t keep supplies flowing.

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Also because their main focus has been a lot of low end tanks and artillery which are best used on defense.

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So Russia was never going to win, and the longer this goes the worse it goes for Russia, not Ukraine

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I mean seriously, put down the pro Russia propaganda effort. In the West, Abrams, Leopards and Challengers are entering Ukraine, older models of the finest battle tanks in the world.

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From the East Russia was sending in T-62s, now they are sending in T-54/55s.

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How exactly do you think that battle will go? For that matter, why do you think Russia has nothing better to send than Korean War era tanks from storage? Do you really think that is a sign of hidden strength?

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Are you serious?

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1- You think Russia is defending itself with a war of aggression? Russia’s behavior demonstrates why NATO is important. It isn’t an offensive treaty organization, it is defensive in nature. Russia attacked Ukraine to try and take it before they joined NATO, closing the door on such aversion.

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2- And? What about Europe in WW2? You would not have liked Ronald Reagan and the Reagan doctrine much. We are helping a people to defend themselves. We tried in Afghanistan and they were never willing to fight for themselves, Ukraine is willing to, and is winning.

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3- No, Russia will not take Ukraine, unless you are one of the people who say something like “Russia will take Ukraine” while meaning Russia might hold onto some small parts of Ukraine. Russia won’t even hold Crimea, it is just a matter of time.

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As to appeasing, please read up on Neville Churchill and what he did to cause WW2 in appeasing Hitler. You stop tyrants, you don’t appease them.

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Russia is losing, you don’t have to have courage, Ukraine has enough. But for the love of god please find some of it to support people defending themselves against the aggression of a tyrant.

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1. "Russia is invading because Ukraine is trying to get the US to secure its independence" ok? Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can make its own choices. If Ukraine is so desperate to secure its independence against Russian aggression, that is Russia's fault, not the US's or Ukraine's. Maybe the Russians should have treated them better back when Ukraine WAS part of Russia.

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2. "Ukraine is not relevant to us" its true that Ukraine is not the same country as America, but we gave our word to defend them and it is our duty to keep the dignity of our word in tact (if we want to maintain favorable relations with the rest of our partners). Furthermore, Russia's main geopolitical goal since its founding has been to secure its western borders with Europe (via the carpathian mountains in Eastern Poland and Northern Romania) which is why both Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union pursued both. If Russia takes Ukraine, they will attack Poland and Romania next, which are both NATO countries and bring us into an actual war. Also, its not wise for the US to grant Russia control over a country that is one of the world's main food exporters (Ukraine), since the US can better leverage trade if Ukraine is under its own influence.

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3. "Appeasing Russia makes America look strong. Standing up to them makes them look weak" This doesn't even make any sense. Its literally the exact opposite. Not only that, but if anything Russia has proven themselves to be terrible at fighting. Their demographic decline also dooms them to collapse within the next half century so its not like they can be a threat for much longer either.

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We are in Ukraine because Biden owes them money.

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>The moment Ukraine joins NATO, Russia will effectively have an American allied country DIRECTLY ON ITS BORDER

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This is an empty Russian argument. Ukraine was many years from joining NATO. Poland and the Baltic countries, all of whom share a border with Russia, have been NATO members for years. Finland, which shares a huge border with Russia, just joined--there are NATO missiles 250 miles from Saint Petersburg. I didn't see Russia invading any of them.

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The most ridiculous aspect of this is that since Russia started the war last year two new countries have joined NATO (Sweden later this year). Russia now has more NATO breathing down its neck, not less.

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>I couldn't even find Ukraine on a map until recently

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Speak for yourself. Maybe pick up a book.

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Ukraine is more relevant than most countries in Europe specifically because of the invasion.

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>Helping Ukraine makes Russia look strong and America look weak

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The war has shown the exact opposite. Russia claimed they'd take Kyiv in three days. They've given up 20% of the territory they initially took. Their losses are huge, and the economic sanctions are finally having an effect. Russia is losing.

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It's basically the Cuban missile crisis backwards.

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Dont need to tell me about it. I just told a Ukrainian the other day i didnt want to fund his war and that he needed to pick up a gun and fight if hes was worried about his country being invaded.

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#Russia invaded a country. There is only one right side and that's the one that is not Russia.

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I’m trying to figure out how everyone knew that Russia was the bad guy so fast. I remember when the war was first announced. Literally minutes later the net was full of “fuck Russia” posts. Even people I knew were immediately on the bandwagon. How did everyone know so fast? I asked people this only to have them respond “because the news said…”

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Ukraine was known as the bread basket of the Soviet Union back in the day and most Ukrainians had no love for Russians. They felt exploited and right so. Their territorial concerns have been more thab valid since Russia annexed part of Ukraine many years back. It was in their interest to pursue alliances to protect their sovereignty. With where the current battle lines are drawn it is absolutely not a given that Russia will prevail. The original premise presented by OP is super dumb.

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Point one has some validity, our corrupt politicians launder money through Ukraine, we as did the Russians meddled in Ukraine elections. Point two is childish and doesn’t make sense. Point three doesn’t make sense. Russia’s economy is not robust, it’s oil, they simply want Ukraine’s oil and run their pipes through it. Technically they have the parts of Ukraine they want already they have one but Russia looks terrible, Wagner turning on Moscow, not completely over running Ukraine in months.

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“Makes Russia look strong” as they are loosing to one of the poorest European countries and left over US military surplus

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Hard disagree my man, super hard to side with you when you’re crying out for more Israeli support. Israel is an apartheid state, fuck those fools.

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That said, I agree with point 3 until we consider that another nation is 100% going to dedicate troops on the ground to the Ukraine war. It will probably be Americans honestly. There’s no way the powers that be let Russia win after all the resources that have been poured in. It would be a massive waste and yes, make us look weak, if we allow Putin to win the war. I don’t support sending troops at all, but i feel it’s inevitable

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“I couldn’t even find Ukraine on a map until recently.” This isn’t the flex you think it is. It’s amazing that you have such a strong opinion on this issue considering you don’t even have a grasp of elementary geography. Lmao

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Funny you say that. When I worked in IT and we dealt with hackers guess where we almost always traced them to? Ukraine.

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2 is what most people fail to grasp. People in power are willing to waste billions in productivity in order to make a few millions. I say productivity because money is essentially created so money is not really wasted. Rockets worth hundreds of thousands are just expanded on both sides destroying buildings that will be rebuilt using more money. Essentially they are just keeping us busy building and repairing things. Imagine the quality of life we would all enjoy if we were not needlessly destroying stuff. Of course, this would be at the expanse of the elite’s lavish lifestyle… and they don’t want that… so war it is. Makes me sick.

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4: In 2010 it was discovered that massive natural gas deposits, 13th largest in the world by estimates but rumored could be ashigh as 5th. In 2012 the pro Russian government of Ukraine agreed to not undercut russias nat gas exports into Europe in exchange for Russia placing the infrastructure to drill for it and refine it. 2012 also when hunter got on the board of the gas company burisma. 2014 a "spontaneous" coup overthrows the government of Ukraine only to have a pro west candidate installed. Over the next 6 years Ukraine is named consistently the most corrupt country in the world.

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Now here's the real reason we're in Ukraine. The west and the rest of the world never truly recovered from the 2008 mortgage crisis. They just took the toxic debt and began burying it in markets across the globe. When Ukraine was projected to make trillions in the future the investment banks wanted to purchase futures to off set losses (Imagine mortgaging your car your 3 payments behind on cover a bet that your sure you're gonna win). Problem was Ukraine was gonna mete it out alittle at a time, not nearly enough to cover the massive debt so the west intervened to allow for the futures to be sold recklessly. Right now there is over 6 trillion in assets from all over the world tied into the hypothetical aluminum of Ukraines gas futures. That's why they are throwing taxpayer money at Ukraine like dollar bills at a cheap stripper. They can't afford to lose those futures or the whole corrupt system will collapse.

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This is the real list.

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A lot of what’s in the OP is chamberlain-level failed policy.

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Appeasing expansionist tyrants is never a good strategy, because it just delays the inevitable conflict while giving the tyrant more time to gain strength.

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Including freaking US of A. I'm so tired of the Russian shills repeating that idiocy about NATO being on the LITERAL border Russia even though it was there from the start

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crimea was inexcusable but georgia was led by a pro western nationalist and coincidentally russian peacekeepers in disputed territories were attacked, even the western bootlicking wikipedia says russia might not be responsible, if they did actually attack first they have no one to blame but themselves

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It’s sad. I saw someone here with a Ronald Reagan flair shilling for Russia, Reagan would have absolutely supported Ukraine.

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>It is no threat to Russia to have NATO on its border

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Yeah totally not threatening to build missile silos in Ukraine capable of striking Moscow in under 30 minutes.

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The US didn't allow that to happen in Cuba. Why would Russia allow it in Ukraine?

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"I couldn't even find Ukraine on a map until this happened ". Dont waste your time on people like this friend. Ukraine is an independent country, Russia invaded it. This is very similar to the liebensraum arguement that the 3rd Reich used. Also, I'm in Canada, which has the largest Ukrainian diaspora in the world. How anybody can be against supporting them against invasion is absolutely flabbergasting.

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Imagine Russia having biolabs on our border, and not doing anything about it.

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Before the 2012 revolution in that country, Ikraine was (just barely) pro-Russian. The US orchestrated that revolution; training, funding, supplies, etc; hell, once the docs are finally unclassified, we'll finally be able to openly admit to the several thousand (some reports put it as high as 10K) SF troops we had there, "observing", which for several decades has been code for CIA ops.

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The end result of putting a pro-US govt was that several treaties Ukraine had with Russia were going to be ended 8-10 years earlier than the agreements were supposed to. And Ukraine was going to keep everything within it's borders. But the civil war wasnt settled; hence 1/3rd of the country declaring independence and asking to join the Russian federation (and be protected by them).

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The US didnt light this dumpster fire, but it did pour every drop of gas it could find onto that fire. The only part of this war that isnt going according to plan is that it was supposed to start five years earlier than it did. It was supposed to be obama's way to pull out of the middle east without loss of face; "our European allies are more important" would be the argument.

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>The US technically borders Russia

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