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From: [email protected] (Doug Fierro) Subject: Squaw lift tickets available for $32 each Distribution: ba Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 14 POSTING FOR A FRIEND- I do not have these tickets. Interested parties can call John at (408) 522-1904 for more information. There are three lift tickets and they are good for anytime this season at Squaw Valley ski resort. -- Doug Fierro |\ UTS System Software O __________|_\______ CASE tools development \_.______________________| * * * * * * * * */ [email protected] __\____ |=================/ (408)746-7102 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subject: Re: Top Ten Reasons Not to Aid Russians From: [email protected] (Roger Collins) Organization: Encore Computer Corporation Nntp-Posting-Host: sysgem1.encore.com Lines: 35 [email protected] (Julie Kangas) writes: |> In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Scott W Roby) writes: |> > [With a tip of the hat to David Letterman for making the Top Ten format |> > so popular] |> > |> >Top Ten Reasons that Conservatives don't want to aid Russia: |> |> <looking around> Who? Where? |> Don't look at me. I want to send aid to Russia. Many other |> conservatives do as well. |> |> Julie |> DISCLAIMER: All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else Yes, it was Nixon who was most vocal about giving money to Russia. It makes me proud to be a libertarian. It appears both conservatives and liberals prefer to cold war until you win, then nurse the enemy back to health for another go around. It's like subsidizing the wealthy countries (Japan, Germany, etc.) with free defense, and then trade-warring with them because of the economic competition. It's like subsidizing tobacco farmers while paying bureaucrats to pursuade people not to smoke. I ask myself, what law could we pass to prevent government from doing stupid, frivilous things with OUR money? Then I think, the Constitution was supposed to do that. Could someone please tell me what legitimate constitutional power the federal government is using when it takes money from my paycheck and gives it to needy countries? Seriously. Roger Collins "If we were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread." -- Thomas Jefferson

From: [email protected] (Tim Clock) Subject: Re: "Conventional Proposales": Israel & Palestinians Nntp-Posting-Host: orion.oac.uci.edu Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 117 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Tim Clock) writes: > >The latest Israeli "proposal", first proposed in February of 1992, contains >the following assumptions concerning the nature of any "interim status" refering to the WB and Gaza, the Palestinians, implemented by negotiations. It >states that: > >Israel will remain the existing source of authority until "final status" > is agreed upon; > >Israel will negiotiate the delegation of power to the organs of the > Interim Self-Government Arrangements (ISGA); > >The ISGA will apply to the "Palestinian inhabitants of the territories" > under Israeli military administration. The arrangements will not have a > territorial application, nor will they apply to the Israeli population > of the territories or to the Palestinian inhabitants of Jerusalem; > >Residual powers not delegated under the ISGA will be reserved by Israel; > >Israelis will continue to live and settle in the territoriesd; > >Israel alone will have responsibility for security in all its aspects- > external, internal- and for the maintenance of public order; > >The organs of the ISGA will be of an administrative-functional nature; > >The exercise of powers under the ISGA will be subject to cooperation and > coordination with Israel. > >Israel will negotiate delegation of powers and responsibilities in the > areas of administration, justice, personnel, agriculture, education, > business, tourism, labor and social welfare, local police, > local transportation and communications, municipal affairs and religious > affairs. > >The Palestinian counterproposal of March 1992: > >The establishment of a Palestinian Interim Self-Governing Authority > (PISGA) whose authority is vested by the Palestinian people; > >Its (PISGA) powers cannot be delegated by Israel; > >In the interim phase the Israeli military government and civil adminis- > tration will be abolished, and the PISGA will asume the powers previous- > ly enjoyed by Israel; > >There will be no limitations on its (PISGA) powers and responsibilities > "except those which derive from its character as an interim arrangement"; > >By the time PISGA is inaugurated, the Israeli armed forces will have > completed their withdrawal to agreed points along the borders of the > Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). The OPT includes Jerusalem; > >The jurisdiction of the PISGA shall extend to all of the OPT, including > its land, water and air space; > >The PISGA shall have legislative powers to enact, amend and abrogate laws; > >It will wield executive power withput foreign control; > >It shall determine the nature of its cooperation with any state or > international body, and shall be empowered to conclude binding coopera- > tive agreements free of any control by Israel; > >The PISGA shall administer justice throughout the OPT and will have sole > and exclusive jruisdiction; > >It will have a strong police force responsible for security and public > order in the OPT; > >It can request the assistance of a UN peacekeeping force; > >Disputes with Israel over self-governing arrangements will be settled by > a committee composed of representatives of the five permanent members of > the UN Security Council, the Secretary General (of the UN), the PISGA, > Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Israel. > >But perhaps the "bargaining" attitude behind these very different visions >of the "interim stage" is wrong? For two reasons: 1) the present Palestinian >and Israeli leadership are *as moderate* as is likely to exist for many years, >so the present opportunity may be the last for a significant period, 2) since >these negotiations *are not* designed to, or even attempting to, resolve the >conflict, attention to issues dealing with a desired "final status" are mis- >placed and potentially destructive. > >Given this, how should proposals (from either side) be altered to temper >their "maximalist" approaches as stated above? How can Israeli worries ,and >desire for some "interim control", be addressed while providing for a very >*real* interim Palestinian self-governing entity? > >Tim > April 13, 1993 response by Al Moore ([email protected]): Basically the problem is that Israel may remain, or leave, the occupied territories; it cannot do both, it cannot do neither. So far, Israe continues to propose that they remain. The Palestinians propose that they leave. Why should either change their view? It is worth pointing out that the only area of compromise accomodating both views seems to require a reduction in the Israeli presence. Israel proposes no such reduction.... and in fact may be said to *not* be negotiating. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tim: There seem to be two perceptions that **have to be addressed**. The first is that of Israel, where there is little trust for Arab groups, so there is little support for Israel giving up **tangible** assets in exchange for pieces of paper, "expectations", "hopes", etc. The second is that of the Arab world/Palestinians, where there is the demand that these "tangible concessions" be made by Israel **without** it receiving anything **tangible** back. Given this, the gap between the two stances seems to be the need by Israel of receiving some ***tangible*** returns for its expected concessions. By "tangible" is meant something that 1) provides Israel with "comparable" protection (from the land it is to give up), 2) in some way ensures that the Arab states and Palestine **will be** accountable and held actively (not just "diplomatically) responsible for the upholding of all actions on its territory (by citizens or "visitors"). In essence I do not believe that Israel objections to Palestinian statehood would be anywhere near as strong as they are now IF Israel was assured that any new Palestinian state *would be committed to** co-existing with Israel and held responsible for ALL attacks on Israel from its territory. Aside from some of the rather slanted proposals above, how *could* such "guarantees" be instilled? For example, how could such "guarantees"/"controls" be added to the Palestinian PISGA proposals? Israel is hanging on largely because it is scared stiff that the minute it lets go (gives lands back to Arab states, no more "buffer zone", gives full autonomy to Palestinians), ANY and/or ALL of the Arab parties could (and *would*, if not "controlled" somehow) EASILY return to the traditional anti-Israel position. The question then is HOW to *really* ensure that that will not happen. Tim

From: [email protected] (mu'tafikah) Subject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE??? Organization: University of Blaspheme Lines: 20 I don't understand who this post is directed towards; who are you trying to convince? By its subject i would assume you are directing the argument towards people who do not believe that Christ rose from the dead, but in your "proof," you use the bible exclusively. The post is therefore immediately useless to anyone who doesn't believe that the bible is an unadulterated truth, and to everyone else, it is just a reaffirmation of a belief already held. As far as i know, there is no disagreement between christians over the resurrection of christ. so my question is: what is the purpose of this post? tomas -- "Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. the field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools." William Faulkner

From: [email protected] (Don A.B. Lindbergh) Subject: Re: Diamond SS24X, Win 3.1, Mouse cursor Organization: National Library of Medicine Lines: 21 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Don A.B. Lindbergh) writes: > >Anybody seen mouse cursor distortion running the Diamond 1024x768x256 driver? >Sorry, don't know the version of the driver (no indication in the menus) but it's a recently >delivered Gateway system. Am going to try the latest drivers from Diamond BBS but wondered >if anyone else had seen this. > As a followup, this is a co-worker's machine. He has the latest 2.03 drivers. It only happens using the 1024x768x256 driver. Sometimes it takes a minute or so for the cursor to wig out, but it eventually does in this mode. I susect something is stepping on memory the video card wants. I excluded a000-c7ff in the EMM386 line and in system.ini The problem persisted. Perhaps it is something specific to the Gateway machine or it's components. It is a 66mhz DX/2 Eisa bus with an Ultrastore (24xx?) controller. Ah well, I was hoping this was some kind of 'known problem' or somebody had seen it before. Perhaps a call to Gateway is in order, but I do find folks here usually are far more in the know. --Don Lindbergh [email protected]

Subject: Re: Eck vs Rickey (was Re: Rickey's whining again) From: [email protected] (Brian Smith) Expires: Sat, 1 May 1993 04:00:00 GMT Distribution: usa Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences Lines: 169 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (David M. Tate) writes: >I've read all of the followups to this, but I thought I'd go back to the >original article to make specific comments about the method: > > >[email protected] (John Oswalt) said: >> >>He has obtained the play by play records, in computer readable >>form, for every major league baseball game for the past several years. >>He devised an algorithm which I call "sum-over-situations", and wrote >>a computer program to calculate every major league players contribution >>using it. It works like this: >> >>Look at every "situation" in every game in a baseball season. A >>situation is determined by inning, score, where the baserunners are, >>and how many outs there are. For each situation, count how many >>times the team eventually won the game that the situation occured in, >>and divide by the number of times the situation came up, to come up with >>a "value" for that situation. > >This was first done by George Lindsey in the late '50s/early '60s, and >reported in > > Article: An Investigation of Strategies in Baseball > Author: George R. Lindsey > Journal: Operations Research > Issue: Volume 11 #4, July-August 1963, pp. 477-501 > >Later, Pete Palmer did the same thing using simulated seasons to generate >a larger set of data to avoid the kind of small-sample anomalies that other >people have worried about. He reported this in _The_Hidden_Game_of_Baseball_ >(with John Thorn). Gary Skoog modified the method a bit and did some work >on what he called a "Value Added" measure based on these situational values. >His were based directly on marginal runs, though, not on win probabilities. >These results, as applied to the 198? season, were reported in one of the >Bill James Baseball Abstract books (1987? Help me out here, somebody...) > >>For example, a situation might be inning 3, score 2-0, runner on second >>and no outs. There were 4212 regular season major league games last >>year. (With the Rockies and Marlins, there will be more this year.) >>Say this situation came up in 100 of those, and the team ahead won >>75 of them. Then the value of this situation is 0.75. > >[Description of method: look at change in win probability based on the at bat > plus any baserunning, and credit/debit the player by that amount each time > he gets a plate appearance.] > >>Now, for each player, sum up all his at-bat and base-running values >>for the season to obtain an overall value for that player. Obviously >>the sum of all players' values for each game, and for the season as a >>whole, will be 0. > >That's only because you always credit +x to the batter and -x to the pitcher; >there's no validation involved. > >OK, there's a very big problem here that nobody has yet commented on: you're >adding *probabilities*, and probabilities don't add. Runs you can add; the >total team runs breaks down into how many runs Joe contributed plus how many >runs Fred contributed, etc. But probabilities don't work that way. If Bob >increases his team's chance of winning by 1% in each of 400 PAs, that does >not mean that Bob increased his team's chance of winning by 400%. In fact, >it doesn't mean *anything*, because the units are screwy. I agree and disagree. John is saying that the batters efforts will result in 4 more wins then losses. While you are probably correct that 400% does not mean 4 more wins then losses, it means something. I would rather have a player who increased my teams chances of winning by 1% in each of 400 PAs then I would a player who increased my chances of winning by .5% in each of 400 PAs. Thus, there appears to me to be an obvious positive association between John's statistic and winning games. Thus, before you disregard this stat, it appears to me that further study must go into what sort of relationship there is. >Consider an example: Bob hits a 2-out solo HR in the bottom of the first; >about .12 on your scale. He does the same thing again in the fourth, with >the score tied, for another .14. And again, in the seventh, with the score >tied, for another .22. And, finally, in the ninth to win the game by a score >of 7-6, for a value of 0.5. Bob hit 4 solo HR in 4 plate appearances, and >was credited by your method with .12 + .14 + .22 + .5 = .98. But what does >that mean? Was Bob 98% responsible for the win? Certainly not; the defense >is *always* 50% responsible (if you include pitching in that), and Bob wasn't >pitching. In fact, Bob was only 4/7 of the offense (which is a lot, but not >even close to 100%). Furthermore, what about the other 3 team runs? Say >they all came on solo HR by Fred; then Fred was hitting HR to tie up the game, >which are just as valuable as HR to take the lead (see Lindsey), and Fred will >himself have accrued a good .4 rating or so. So Fred and Bob combined have >amassed 138% of a win IN ONE GAME. There's clearly a problem here. The only problem here is an insistance that these number mean exactly how many wins the team has. First, we are using averages over many seasons and applying them to one game. Second, remember some players performance take away from the chance of you winning. That is a player who gets an out gets a "negative probability" in most cases. Thus, I'm not sure in any given game when you add up all the numbers for a team who won that they will add up to 1 in that game. Sometimes, they will add up to more then one sometime, less than one. Also, the pitchers' bad performances (giving up 6 runs) may have given them a large negative percentage for that game. Also, any batter that pulled an 0-4 night would give large negatives. >>Greg thinking about the right things, but his intuition is off the >>mark. Closers are enormously important. The total number of runs >>value is outweighed by when they come, or are prevented from comming. >>The doubling which Greg allows is not enough. > >In another article, I proposed a test of this. We can predict a team's >won/lost record quite accurately by looking at how many runs *total* they >score and allow, without regard to when those runs score in the game. If >late runs are really more important than early runs, then looking only at >late runs should lead to a *better* predictor, right? No, but really only because you have a smaller sample size. I would think however, that the number of runs you score in the first inning would be just as good as a prediction as how many runs you score in the last inning. And, realize something else a closer usually comes in in a close situation, not a blow out. It is hard to argue that any runs that a closer gives up in a game have equal importance to those given up in the first inning. Look, a closer giving up runs often means a team will lose many games. On, the other hand a starter who gives up runs often still leaves his team a chance to win. The offence has many more outs to do something about. But, I am not saying all late inning situations are equally important either. If I am down 8 runs in the ninth, it really does not matter how many runs my pitcher gives up in the ninth. >Here's another thought experiment: apply this method to basketball. What >you find is that points scored in the first *half* of the game have almost >exactly no value, because no lead is safe with an entire half yet to play. >Furthermore, the sub in off the bench who sinks the winning free throws with >no time on the clock gets a +1.0 for the game, while the star forward who >scored 27 points in the first half before spraining his ankle gets a zero. > >Does this make sense? No, but why would you assume that the teams probability of winning would be 0 before the possesion in which the free throws were made. Look, if you are down 1 point with 5 seconds left, there is a fairly high probability that you will win the game if you are in possesion of the ball. And, do not forget that somebody elses missed shots, turnovers, fouls, bad defense, etc. caused a "negative chance" that the team would win. From reading all of the discussion on this statistic, I feel that those who critisize it to a certain extent are doing so out of an agenda. At first look this statistic valadates clutchness. But, it really does not. Cluthness revolves around the idea that certain players in crucial situation elevate their performance and others performance goes down. I've never seen convincing proof that this really happens. So, if you assume there is no clutchness, then that means that except for a lot of noice, this statistic has a positive association to player performance. There is a way to get rid of the noice if you do not believe in clutchness. Certainly, we could find out what the average value of a home run is for example. We may find for instance, that a home run increases your chance of winning by 15% on average while a strikeout decreases your chance of winning by 5%. I bet if this were done we would find that this statistic was just as good as other statistics we have for predicting wins and losses. How do we evaluate relief pitchers? Say John and Sam have the exact same pitching statistics (runs, earned runs, K's, BB's, etc.) Both had exceptional numbers. John, however only pitched in closer situations, while Sam was a Mop up man. Who was more valuble to their team? Probably John. Who was the better pitcher? They were probably about the same. Brian Smith

From: [email protected] (Ken Eyler) Subject: stand alone editing suite. Article-I.D.: shelley.1qvkaeINNgat Distribution: world Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu I need some help. We are upgrading our animation/video editing stand. We are looking into the different type of setups for A/B roll and a cuts only station. We would like this to be controlled by a computer ( brand doesnt matter but maybe MAC, or AMIGA). Low end to high end system setups would be very helpful. If you have a system or use a system that might be of use, could you mail me your system requirements, what it is used for, and all the hardware and software that will be necessary to set the system up. If you need more info, you can mail me at [email protected] thanks in advance. :ken :[email protected]

From: [email protected] (Dorin Baru) Subject: Re: ISLAM BORDERS vs Israeli borders Organization: Unocal Corporation Lines: 38 Ilyess Bdira writes: >>The Islamic world dreams of being the whole planet, but not by kicking >the current inhabitant out, we rather deam of the day everybody converts. >If Jews had the same dream, I would not feel threatened a bit. So I should be very comfortable that 500,000,000 people want to convert me to Islam. Or, to convert me to ANYTHING. There are many types of violence, physical murder is only one. 'Trying' to convert is an insult. It's like trying to tell me that me and/or my God/my lack of God are just crap, that I need a new, 'converted' one. This does not apply for muslims only, of course. Same for jews and for some friendly, nicely dressed neighbours who show on sunday with empty speaches and cheap booklets about some church .... And when the objective is (I think, however that you are wrong) to convert everybody, it's just a matter of time when violence will occur. Aren't we able to learn anything from thouthands of years of 'conversion related violence' ? Why not let 'the other, more inferiour' people live as they wish and take care your business?. You do assume that they are inferiour (or their beliefs are) as long as you want to change their thinking. Dorin

From: [email protected] (Ray Fischer) Subject: Re: Can you share one monitor w/ 2 cpus? Organization: Netcom. San Jose, California Lines: 13 [email protected] (David Kantrowitz) writes ... > >I have a Centris 610 & want to get an IBM machine as well. >To save space on my desk, I would like to use one monitor >for both, with a switch-box. Does anyone know of a way to do >this? Sure. Buy a switch box and a multisync monitor. I have just that arrangement on my desk and it works fine. -- Ray Fischer "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth [email protected] than lies." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

From: [email protected] (Anthony V. Dean) Subject: ATM Organization: University of California at San Diego Lines: 15 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu I've been reading, with much confusion, about whether or not to use ATManager. Lately, all the packages I've been buying have all included ATManager as a "bonus" I do some desktop publishing using PageMaker and Coreldraw. Coreldraw comes with a nifty laser disk that contains over 200 diff types. Add that to the TTfonts that come with win31 and you have a decent amount of fonts. I print my creations out on an HP4 Postcript, at 600 dpi resolution with the "Resolution Enhancement Technology" and .. well ... I get some darn good copies. So good that there isn't any diff whether or not ATManager is turned on or not. Is it worth it to run ATM at all? Especially with these better printer technologies ... and TT? -- -- avDean

From: [email protected] (Roland Karlsson) Subject: Re: Magellan Venus Maps (Thanks) In-Reply-To: [email protected]'s message of 30 Mar 1993 00:34 UT Lines: 14 Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista Thanks Ron and Peter for some very nice maps. I have an advice though. You wrote that the maps were reduced to 256 colors. As far ad I understand JPEG pictures gets much better (and the compressed files smaller) if you use the original 3 color 24 bit data when converting to JPEG. Thanks again, -- Roland Karlsson SICS, PO Box 1263, S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN Internet: [email protected] Tel: +46 8 752 15 40 Fax: +46 8 751 72 30 Telex: 812 6154 7011 SICS Ttx: 2401-812 6154 7011=SICS

From: [email protected] (Pat) Subject: Re: nuclear waste Organization: Express Access Online Communications USA Lines: 45 NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: |In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Paul Dietz) writes: |>> |>>Paul, quite frankly I'll believe that this is really going to work on |>>the typical trash one needs to process when I see them put a couple |>>tons in one end and get (relatively) clean material out the other end, |>>plus be able to run it off its own residual power. Sounds almost like |>>perpetual motion, doesn't it? | |I will believe that this process comes even close to approaching |technological and economic feasibility (given the mixed nature of the |trash that will have to be run through it as opposed to the costs of |separating things first and having a different 'run' for each |actinide) when I see them dump a few tons in one end and pull |(relatively) clean material out the other. Once the costs, |technological risks, etc., are taken into account I still class this |one with the idea of throwing waste into the sun. Sure, it's possible |and the physics are well understood, but is it really a reasonable |approach? | How is it ever going to be an Off- the Shelf Technology if someone doesn't do it? Maybe we should do this as part of the SSF design goals. ;-) Gee fred. After your bitter defense of 20 KHz power as a Basic technology for SSF, Id think you would support a minor research program like this. And does anyone who knows more Particle physics then me, know if the IPNS could Prove this technology? | |>The real reason why accelerator breeders or incinerators are not being |>built is that there isn't any reason to do so. Natural uranium is |>still too cheap, and geological disposal of actinides looks |>technically reasonable. | It may also help there is political gridlock on the entire nuclear technical agenda. There were big political opponenents to Fast Breeder Technologies. WIPP is being fought to death in Courts. Even if you could make a nuclear incinerator, do you really think even Deaf SMith County Nevada would accept it? NIMBY'ism rules nuclear power concerns. Only the medical community has been able to overrule nuclear technology opposition.

From: [email protected] (Vadim Antonov) Subject: Re: Re-inventing Crypto Policy? An EFF Statement Organization: UUNET Technologies Inc, Falls Church, VA Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net In article <[email protected]> Danny Weitzner <[email protected]> writes: >The 80-bit key will be divided between two escrow agents, each of whom >hold 40-bits of each key. I somehow started to doubt technical competence of the people who designed the system. Why on the Earth split the 80-bit key in 40-bit parts to keep them in escrow separately (having 40 bit and large volumes of data voice links produce it should be relatively easy to break it) when they simply could keep 80-bit sequences in N (N>=2) independent places and then XOR all the partial keys to get the actual key (N-1 sequences should obviously be selected randomly and Nth is the actual key XOR-ed with the random sequences). (Or is it a conspiracy? 1/2 :-) --vadim

From: [email protected] (Chuck Petch) Subject: Anybody out there? Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA Lines: 30 I seldom see any posts in this group. Is anyone out there in Christendom listening? If so, why don't we get some dialog going here? Here's a topic to get things started. My daughter's Christian school sends home a weekly update on school related topics. This week they sent something *very* interesting. It was an article written by the leader of a national (US) Christian school organization about a trip he recently made to Jerusalem. While there, he was introduced to one of the rabbis who is working on a project to rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem. The article included photos of the many furnishings that have already been made in preparation for furnishing the rebuilt temple according to the specifications given in the Bible. What was even more striking is the fact that the plans for the temple are complete and the group is only awaiting permission from the Israeli government before beginning the building. The other startling fact is the very recent archeological discovery that the original site of the temple is unoccupied and available for building. Previously it has been thought that the original site was underneath what is now a mosque, making rebuilding impossible without sparking a holy war. Now it appears that nothing stands in the way of rebuilding and resuming sacrifices, as the Scriptures indicate will happen in the last days. Although the Israeli government will give the permission to start, I think it is the hand of God holding the project until He is ready to let it happen. Brothers and sisters, the time is at hand. Our redemption is drawing near. Look up! [Postings are in the range of 30 to 50 per day, except weekends. If people aren't seeing that, we've got propagation problems. --clh]

From: [email protected] (Barry Fowler) Subject: Re: Impala SS going into production! Organization: HP Colorado Computer Mfg. Operation Lines: 1 Does that mean that they're gonna bring back the Biscayne and Bel Air?

From: [email protected] (Uncle Fester) Subject: Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. Lines: 23 In article <[email protected]> kaldis@romulu .rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes: >> -- >> ------ Join the Pythagorean Reform Church! . >> \ / Repent of your evil irrational numbers . . >> \ / and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart! . . . > ^^^^^^^^^^^ >> \/ Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568 . . . . > >The above smacks of antiHispanic bigotry. Really? What if it said "lentil eating" or "legume eating", what then? And I suppose "Accept 10" is anti-Octal bigotry? Geez, how PC can you get!? Uncle Fester -- : What God Wants : God wants gigolos : : God gets : God wants giraffes : : God help us all : God wants politics : : *[email protected]* : God wants a good laugh :

From: [email protected] (Michael Covington) Subject: Re: Where to buy parts 1 or 2 at a time? Nntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens Lines: 15 The pricing of parts reminds me of something a chemist once said to me: "A gram of this dye costs a dollar. It comes out of a liter jar which also costs a dollar. And if you want a whole barrel of it, that also costs a dollar." I.e., they charge you almost exclusively for packaging it and delivering it to you -- the chemical itself (in that particular case) was a byproduct that cost almost nothing intrinsically. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs [email protected] : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><

From: [email protected] (Paul Thompson) Subject: Re: Wanted: Advice for New Cylist Organization: Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, California Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: apple.com [email protected] (Blaise Cirelli) writes: >So the question I have is "HOW DANGEROUS IS RIDING"? sorta. >The next question I have is what bike would you recommend for >a first time rider. '88 Honda Hawk YMMV. -- Paul Thompson Apple Computer

From: [email protected] (David Davidson) Subject: Portable Color T.V. $160 Distribution: usa Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences Lines: 20 Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu Hey, I have a Color Watchman by SONY for sale. It is 6"x3"x1" in total and the screen is 2.75" diagonal, over 2" wide, over 1.5" tall. I got it 2 years ago for $320, so I'm asking $160 obo. * VHF and UHF switch for channels 2 through 69. * slot for Audio/Video in from VCR (appropriate cord provided) * slot for phones * slot for A/C adaptor (A/C adaptor also provided) * slot for external Antenna (internal antenna provided) * On/Off switch * Manual Tuning, Volume, Brightness and Hue * Battery run as well (4 AA batteries provided) It's been used very little. Looks like new. Email if interested. -dave

From: [email protected] (Chris Pirih) Subject: Re: Live Free, but Quietly, or Die Organization: Microsoft Corporation Lines: 8 In rec.motorcycles [email protected] writes: ;Revving the throttle requires either [dis]engaging the clutch, ;or accelerating. Not if it's a Harley. --- chris

From: [email protected] (Red Herring) Subject: Re: Clinton's immunization program Nntp-Posting-Host: dzoo.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 48 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (David Veal) writes: >In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Red Herring) writes: >>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jeffrey S Linder) writes: >>>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] >>>OM (Mark Wilson) writes: >>>>On the news last night Clinton was bashing the republicans for stonewalling >>>>his so called stimulus package. >>>>It seems that one small item within this package was going to pay for free >>>>immunizations for poor kids. >>> >>>Immunizations for children in this country are already free if you care to >>>go have it done. The problem is not the cost, it is the irresponible parents >>>who are to stupid or to lazy to have it done. >> >> In case you haven't noticed, Clintonites are pushing a universal health >> care ACCESS program. "Access" here means that folks who do not give >> a damn about immunizing their children will have health care services >> delivered to their doorsteps. > > I've read about more than a few of these programs that ran into >problems in convincing parents to get their children immunized even >when they were delivered to their doorstep. (I don't know, maybe >that sheet they have to be informed of about possible risks, side- >effects, and bad reactions scares them.) The immunization program is just a "useful first step". Among other things, the money will go to pay for creating and maintaning a a computerized "innoculation" database on all U.S. children. (code-named Big Mother... Just kidding, the name will be Children Defense Database, or something like that.) Once the money is spent and little or no tangible results achieved, the goverment will have to start knocking down doors, in some neigborhoods, and bribe parents in others (probably the ones that are paying kids for attending the school - what a fantastic idea!) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group >[email protected] - "I still remember the way you laughed, the day >your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't >love me anymore." - "Weird Al" -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Tony S Annese) Subject: Re: Windows Speaker Sound Driver Nntp-Posting-Host: jobe Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data) Lines: 11 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Alec Lee) writes: >Is there an ftp site where I can get the MS speaker sound driver? There's >a "sound.exe" file that claims to be the driver but I'm suspicious since >it's not a .drv file. Thats the file... -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Tony Annese [email protected] -or- [email protected] \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center From: Alan Hinds <[email protected]> Subject: Disk data compression and Interleave Lines: 5 Does anyone have enough experience to report whether disk data compression has any effect on the optimal disk sector interleave? Offhand, I expect that the time required to decompress disk data would increase the optimum disk sector interleave. - Alan Hinds

From: [email protected] Subject: FTP Problem on Gateway 486DX50 Organization: University of Wisconsin Chemistry Computing Center Distribution: usa Lines: 18 We have a Gateway 486DX50 with a SMC Elite16 Series Ethercard Plus. When we use NCSA FTP to send from the Gateway with hash turned on, we see 4 hash marks immediately. Then the computer r e a l l y drags. If we turn off the internal cache of the 486, the speed is better, but doesn't match the speed when we receive to the Gateway. It doesn't matter if we send from the Gateway or get to it: 4 hash marks and then extreme slowness if the cache is not disabled. Does anyone know any more about this? Is there a fix? The Gateway was purchased in June, 1992. Please respond directly. You wouldn't believe how slow the news is on this system. Thanks.

From: mathew <[email protected]> Subject: Alt.Atheism FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions Summary: Please read this file before posting to alt.atheism Keywords: FAQ, atheism Expires: Fri, 14 May 1993 09:39:55 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK. Supersedes: <[email protected]> Lines: 733 Archive-name: atheism/faq Alt-atheism-archive-name: faq Last-modified: 5 April 1993 Version: 1.1 Alt.Atheism Frequently-Asked Questions This file contains responses to articles which occur repeatedly in alt.atheism. Points covered here are ones which are not covered in the "Introduction to Atheism"; you are advised to read that article as well before posting. These answers are not intended to be exhaustive or definitive. The purpose of the periodic FAQ postings is not to stifle debate, but to raise its level. If you have something to say concerning one of these questions and which isn't covered by the answer given, please feel free to make your point. Overview of contents: "What is the purpose of this newsgroup?" "Hitler was an atheist!" "The Bible proves it" "Pascal's Wager" "What is Occam's Razor?" "Why it's good to believe in Jesus" "Why I know that God exists" "Einstein and "God does not play dice"" "Everyone worships something" "Why there must be a causeless cause" "The universe is so complex it must have been designed" "Independent evidence that the Bible is true" "Godel's Incompleteness Theorem" "George Bush on atheism and patriotism" "I know where hell is!" "Biblical contradictions wanted" "The USA is a Christian nation" "The USA is not a Christian nation" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: What is the purpose of this newsgroup? Typical posting: Why have a newsgroup about atheism? Why do atheists organize in groups? What is there to discuss? Response: Many things are discussed here, including: * Whether it is reasonable to feign theism in order to avoid upsetting one's family * Prayer in schools * Discrimination against atheists * Sunday trading laws * The Satanic Child Abuse myth * Whether one should be an overt atheist or 'stay in the closet' * How religious societies prey (sic) on new college students * How to get rid of unwanted proselytizers * Whether religion is a danger to society and/or the individual * Why people become atheists Of course, inevitably alt.atheism tends to attract evangelical Christians looking for someone to convert. Most readers of the newsgroup don't want to be preached to, although a few seem to derive perverse pleasure from tearing apart particularly ill-considered or uninformed postings. ------------------------------ Subject: Hitler was an atheist! Typical posting: Hitler was an atheist, and look at what he did! Response: Adolf Hitler was emphatically not an atheist. As he said himself: The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making _people_stop_just_talking_ superficially_of_God's_will,_and_actually_fulfill_God's_will,_and_ not_let_God's_word_be_desecrated._[orig. ital.] For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other. [...] Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: _by_defending_myself_against_the_Jew,_I_am_ fighting_for_the_work_of_the_Lord._[orig. ital.] -- Adolf Hitler, from "Mein Kampf", trans. Ralph Mannheim. Of course, someone bad believing something does not make that belief wrong. It's also entirely possible that Hitler was lying when he claimed to believe in God. We certainly can't conclude that he's an atheist, though. ------------------------------ Subject: The Bible proves it Typical posting: In the Bible it says that... Response: Most of the readers of alt.atheism feel that the Bible is of questionable accuracy, as it was written thousands of years ago by many authors who were recording oral tradition that existed many years before. Thus, any claimed 'truth' in it is of questionable legitimacy. This isn't to say that The Bible has no truth in it; simply that any truth must be examined before being accepted. Many of the readers of this group also feel that because any passage is subject to "interpretation", any claim that a passage 'means' one thing and one thing only is not legitimate. Note that this feeling tends to extend to other books. It is also remarkable to many atheists that theists tend to ignore other equally plausible religious books in favour of those of their own religion. ------------------------------ Subject: Pascal's Wager Typical posting: If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing -- but if you don't believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you will go to hell. Therefore it is foolish to be an atheist. Response: This argument is known as Pascal's Wager. It has several flaws. Firstly, it does not indicate which religion to follow. Indeed, there are many mutually exclusive and contradictory religions out there. This is often described as the "avoiding the wrong hell" problem. If a person is a follower of religion X, he may end up in religion Y's version of hell. Secondly, the statement that "If you believe in God and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing" is not true. Suppose you're believing in the wrong God -- the true God might punish you for your foolishness. Consider also the deaths that have resulted from people rejecting medicine in favour of prayer. Another flaw in the argument is that it is based on the assumption that the two possibilities are equally likely -- or at least, that they are of comparable likelihood. If, in fact, the possibility of there being a God is close to zero, the argument becomes much less persuasive. So sadly the argument is only likely to convince those who believe already. Also, many feel that for intellectually honest people, belief is based on evidence, with some amount of intuition. It is not a matter of will or cost-benefit analysis. Formally speaking, the argument consists of four statements: 1. One does not know whether God exists. 2. Not believing in God is bad for one's eternal soul if God does exist. 3. Believing in God is of no consequence if God does not exist. 4. Therefore it is in one's interest to believe in God. There are two approaches to the argument. The first is to view 1 as an assumption, and 2 as a consequence of it. One problem with this approach, in the abstract, is that it creates information from no information. This is considered invalid in information theory. Statement 1 indicates one has no information about God -- but statement 2 indicates that beneficial information can be gained from the absolute lack of information about God. This violates information entropy -- information has been extracted from no information, at no "cost". The alternative approach is to claim that 1 and 2 are both assumptions. The problem with this is that 2 is then basically an assumption which states the Christian position, and only a Christian will agree with that assumption. The argument thus collapses to "If you are a Christian, it is in your interests to believe in God" -- a rather vacuous tautology, and not the way Pascal intended the argument to be viewed. The biggest reason why Pascal's wager is a failure is that if God is omniscient he will certainly know who really believes and who believes as a wager. He will spurn the latter... assuming he actually cares at all whether people believe in him. ------------------------------ Subject: What is Occam's Razor? Typical posting: People keep talking about Occam's Razor. What is it? Response: William of Occam formulated a principle which has become known as Occam's Razor. In its original form, it said "Do not multiply entities unnecessarily." That is, if you can explain something without supposing the existence of some entity, then do so. Nowadays when people refer to Occam's Razor, they generally express it more generally, for example as "Take the simplest solution". The relevance to atheism is that we can look at two possible explanations for what we see around us: 1. There is an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there, which came into being as a result of natural processes. 2. There is an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there, and there is also a God who created the universe. Clearly this God must be of non-zero complexity. Given that both explanations fit the facts, Occam's Razor might suggest that we should take the simpler of the two -- solution number one. Unfortunately, some argue that there is a third even more simple solution: 3. There isn't an incredibly intricate and complex universe out there. We just imagine that there is. This third option leads us logically towards solipsism, which many people find unacceptable. ------------------------------ Subject: Why it's good to believe in Jesus Typical posting: I want to tell people about the virtues and benefits of my religion. Response: Preaching is not appreciated. Feel free to talk about your religion, but please do not write postings that are on a "conversion" theme. Such postings do not belong on alt.atheism and will be rejected from alt.atheism.moderated (try the newsgroup talk.religion.misc). You would doubtless not welcome postings from atheists to your favourite newsgroup in an attempt to convert you; please do unto others as you would have them do unto you! Often theists make their basic claims about God in the form of lengthy analogies or parables. Be aware that atheists have heard of God and know the basic claims about him; if the sole purpose of your parable is to tell atheists that God exists and brings salvation, you may as well not post it, since it tells us nothing we have not been told before. ------------------------------ Subject: Why I know that God exists Typical posting: I *know* from personal experience and prayer that God exists. Response: Just as many theists have personal evidence that the being they worship exists, so many atheists have personal evidence that such beings do not exist. That evidence varies from person to person. Furthermore, without wishing to dismiss your evidence out of hand, many people have claimed all kinds of unlikely things -- that they have been abducted by UFOs, visited by the ghost of Elvis, and so on. ------------------------------ Subject: Einstein and "God does not play dice" Typical posting: Albert Einstein believed in God. Do you think you're cleverer than him? Response: Einstein did once comment that "God does not play dice [with the universe]". This quotation is commonly mentioned to show that Einstein believed in the Christian God. Used this way, it is out of context; it refers to Einstein's refusal to accept the uncertainties indicated by quantum theory. Furthermore, Einstein's religious background was Jewish rather than Christian. A better quotation showing what Einstein thought about God is the following: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." Einstein was unable to accept Quantum Theory because of his belief in an objective, orderly reality; a reality which would not be subject to random events and which would not be dependent upon the observer. He believed that QM was incomplete, and that a better theory would have no need for statistical interpretations. So far no such better theory has been found, and much evidence suggests that it never will be. A longer quote from Einstein appears in "Science, Philosophy, and Religion, A Symposium", published by the Conference on Science, Philosophy and Religion in Their Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York, 1941. In it he says: "The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be *refuted* [italics his], in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot. But I am convinced that such behavior on the part of representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable of cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself. This is, to be sure, a more difficult but an incomparably more worthy task..." Einstein has also said: "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religous convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." The latter quote is from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side", edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press. Also from the same book: "I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it." Of course, the fact that Einstein chose not to believe in Christianity does not in itself imply that Christianity is false. ------------------------------ Subject: Everyone worships something Typical posting: Everyone worships something, whether it's money, power or God. Response: If that is true, everyone is a polytheist. Theists care just as much about those things that atheists care about. If the atheists' reactions to (for example) their families amount to worship then so do the theists'. ------------------------------ Subject: Why there must be a causeless cause Typical posting: Sets of integers that have a lower bound each have a smallest member, so chains of causes must all have a first element, a causeless cause. Response: The set of real numbers greater than zero has a definite lower bound, but has no smallest member. Further, even if it is true that there must be a causeless cause, that does not imply that that cause must be a conscious supernatural entity, and especially not that any such entity must match the description favoured by any particular religion. ------------------------------ Subject: The universe is so complex it must have been designed Typical posting: The presence of design in the universe proves there is a God. Surely you don't think all this appeared here just by chance? Response: This is known as the Argument From Design. It is a matter of dispute whether there is any element of design in the universe. Those who believe that the complexity and diversity of living creatures on the earth is evidence of a creator are best advised to read the newsgroup talk.origins for a while. There is insufficient space to summarize both sides of that debate here. However, the conclusion is that there is no scientific evidence in favour of so-called Scientific Creationism. Furthermore, there is much evidence, observation and theory that can explain many of the complexities of the universe and life on earth. The origin of the Argument by Design is a feeling that the existence of something as incredibly intricate as, say, a human is so improbable that surely it can't have come about by chance; that surely there must be some external intelligence directing things so that humans come from the chaos deliberately. But if human intelligence is so improbable, surely the existence of a mind capable of fashioning an entire universe complete with conscious beings must be immeasurably more unlikely? The approach used to argue in favour of the existence of a creator can be turned around and applied to the Creationist position. This leads us to the familiar theme of "If a creator created the universe, what created the creator?", but with the addition of spiralling improbability. The only way out is to declare that the creator was not created and just "is" (or "was"). From here we might as well ask what is wrong with saying that the universe just "is" without introducing a creator? Indeed Stephen Hawking, in his book "A Brief History of Time", explains his theory that the universe is closed and finite in extent, with no beginning or end. The Argument From Design is often stated by analogy, in the so-called Watchmaker Argument. One is asked to imagine that one has found a watch on the beach. Does one assume that it was created by a watchmaker, or that it evolved naturally? Of course one assumes a watchmaker. Yet like the watch, the universe is intricate and complex; so, the argument goes, the universe too must have a creator. The Watchmaker analogy suffers from three particular flaws, over and above those common to all Arguments By Design. Firstly, a watchmaker creates watches from pre-existing materials, whereas God is claimed to have created the universe from nothing. These two sorts of creation are clearly fundamentally different, and the analogy is therefore rather weak. Secondly, a watchmaker makes watches, but there are many other things in the world. If we walked further along the beach and found a nuclear reactor, we wouldn't assume it was created by the watchmaker. The argument would therefore suggest a multitude of creators, each responsible for a different part of creation. Finally, in the first part of the watchmaker argument we conclude that the watch is not part of nature because it is ordered, and therefore stands out from the randomness of nature. Yet in the second part of the argument, we start from the position that the universe is obviously not random, but shows elements of order. The Watchmaker argument is thus internally inconsistent. ------------------------------ Subject: Independent evidence that the Bible is true Typical posting: The events of the New Testament are confirmed by independent documentary evidence. For example... Response: The writings of Josephus are often mentioned as independent documentary evidence. Early versions of Josephus's work are thought not to have mentioned Jesus or James; the extant version discusses John in a non-Christian context. Many scholars believe that the original mentioned Jesus and James in passing, but that this was expanded by Christian copyists. Several "reconstructions" of the original text have been published to this effect. Much information appears in the Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius (about 320 C.E.). It is worthless as historical material because of the deliberate falsification of the wily Eusebius who is generally acknowledged as 'the first thoroughly dishonest historian of antiquity.' It is Eusebius who is generally given the title of authorship for this material. Aside from the New Testament, the biographical information about Jesus is more well-documented. For further information, please consult the Frequently Asked Questions file for the newsgroup soc.religion.christian. ------------------------------ Subject: Godel's Incompleteness Theorem Typical posting: Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates that it is impossible for the Bible to be both true and complete. Response: Godel's First Incompleteness Theorem says that in any consistent formal system which is sufficiently expressive that it can model ordinary arithmetic, one can formulate expressions which can never be proven to be valid or invalid ('true' or 'false') within that formal system. (Technically speaking, the system must also be recursive; that is, there must be a decision procedure for determining whether a given string is an axiom within the formal system.) Essentially, all such systems can formulate what is known as a "Liar Paradox." The classic Liar Paradox sentence in ordinary English is "This sentence is false." Note that if a proposition is undecidable, the formal system cannot even deduce that it is undecidable. The logic used in theological discussions is rarely well defined, so claims that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates that it is impossible to prove or disprove) the existence of God are worthless in isolation. One can trivially define a formal system in which it is possible to prove the existence of God, simply by having the existence of God stated as an axiom. This is unlikely to be viewed by atheists as a convincing proof, however. It may be possible to succeed in producing a formal system built on axioms that both atheists and theists agree with. It may then be possible to show that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem holds for that system. However, that would still not demonstrate that it is impossible to prove that God exists within the system. Furthermore, it certainly wouldn't tell us anything about whether it is possible to prove the existence of God generally. Note also that all of these hypothetical formal systems tell us nothing about the actual existence of God; the formal systems are just abstractions. Another frequent claim is that Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrates that a religious text (the Bible, the Book of Mormon or whatever) cannot be both consistent and universally applicable. Religious texts are not formal systems, so such claims are nonsense. ------------------------------ Subject: George Bush on atheism and patriotism Typical posting: Did George Bush really say that atheists should not be considered citizens? Response: The following exchange took place at the Chicago airport between Robert I. Sherman of American Atheist Press and George Bush, on August 27 1988. Sherman is a fully accredited reporter, and was present by invitation as a member of the press corps. The Republican presidential nominee was there to announce federal disaster relief for Illinois. The discussion turned to the presidential primary: RS: "What will you do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?" GB: "I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me." RS: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?" GB: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." RS: "Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?" GB: "Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists." UPI reported on May 8, 1989, that various atheist organizations were still angry over the remarks. The exchange appeared in the Boulder Daily Camera on Monday February 27, 1989. It can also be found in "Free Enquiry" magazine, Fall 1988 issue, Volume 8, Number 4, page 16. On October 29, 1988, Mr. Sherman had a confrontation with Ed Murnane, cochairman of the Bush-Quayle '88 Illinois campaign. This concerned a lawsuit Mr. Sherman had filed to stop the Community Consolidated School District 21 (Chicago, Illinois) from forcing his first-grade Atheist son to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States as "one nation under God" (Bush's phrase). The following conversation took place: RS: "American Atheists filed the Pledge of Allegiance lawsuit yesterday. Does the Bush campaign have an official response to this filing?" EM: "It's bullshit." RS: "What is bullshit?" EM: "Everything that American Atheists does, Rob, is bullshit." RS: "Thank you for telling me what the official position of the Bush campaign is on this issue." EM: "You're welcome." After Bush's election, American Atheists wrote to Bush asking him to retract his statement. On February 21st 1989, C. Boyden Gray, Counsel to the President, replied on White House stationery that Bush substantively stood by his original statement, and wrote: "As you are aware, the President is a religious man who neither supports atheism nor believes that atheism should be unnecessarily encouraged or supported by the government." For further information, contact American Atheist Veterans at the American Atheist Press's Cameron Road address. ------------------------------ Subject: I know where hell is! Typical posting: I know where Hell is! Hell is in Norway! Response: There are several towns called "Hell" in various countries around the world, including Norway and the USA. Whilst this information is mildly amusing the first time one hears it, readers of alt.atheism are now getting pretty fed up with hearing it every week. ------------------------------ Subject: Biblical contradictions wanted Typical posting: Does anyone have a list of Biblical contradictions? Response: American Atheist Press publish an atheist's handbook detailing Biblical contradictions. See the accompanying posting on Atheist Resources for details. There is a file containing some Biblical contradictions available from the [email protected]. See the contacts file for more information. ------------------------------ Subject: The USA is a Christian nation Typical posting: Because of the religious beliefs of the founding fathers, shouldn't the United States be considered a Christian nation? Response: Based upon the writings of several important founding fathers, it is clear that they never intended the US to be a Christian nation. Here are some quotes; there are many more. "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785 "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." - Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813 "I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." - Benjamin Franklin, from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", Nov. 20, 1728 ------------------------------ Subject: The USA is not a Christian nation Typical posting: Is it true that George Washington said that the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian religion? Response: No. The quotation often given is in fact from Article XI of the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli (8 Stat 154, Treaty Series 358): Article 11 As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, -- as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, -- and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. The text may be found in the Congressional Record or in treaty collections such as Charles Bevans' "Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949", vol. 11 (pp. 1070-1080). The English text of the Treaty of Tripoli was approved by the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and ratified by President John Adams on June 10, 1797. It was recently discovered that the Arabic version of the treaty not only lacks the quotation, it lacks Article XI altogether. The person who translated the Arabic to English was Joel Barlow, Consul General at Algiers, a close friend of Thomas Paine -- and an opponent of Christianity. It is possible that Barlow made up Article XI, but since there is no Arabic version of that article to be found, it's hard to say. In 1806 a new Treaty of Tripoli was ratified which no longer contained the quotation. End of FAQ Digest ***************** ÿ

From: [email protected] (Pat Myrto) Subject: Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. Article-I.D.: rwing.2088 Distribution: na Organization: Totally Unorganized Lines: 52 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Felix Gallo) writes: <[email protected] (Pat Myrto) writes: < <>If the Clinton Clipper is so very good, [...] < <Please note that Bill Clinton probably has little if anything to do <with the design, implementation or reasoning behind this chip or behind <any "moves" being made using this chip as a pawn. Uh, I notice he has not either asked for or allowed public input, and he damn sure has not stopped it... <Remember, when you elect a president of the united states, it's not <the case that all the Republicans, etc. in the NSA and FBI and CIA <immediately pack their bags and get replaced by a team of fresh young <Democrats. Most of the government -- say, 96% -- is appointed or <hired rather than elected. Since this Clipper device has been in <production for over six months, it probably has little or no <foundation in the currently elected Democratic Executive body. Again, if it was something Clinton didn't like, how come he did not stop it, or get PUBLIC input before implimenting the DECISION? He sure has asserted his authority on other things he did not agree with from the Bush administrationk, I notice. He is the president, therefore he is RESPONSIBLE for the actions of the Execuitive Branch. I have not the slightest bit of doubt you would be holding Bush or Reagan to that standard had they been in office when this thing was cast into stone... <>BTW - those who suggest that this is just an attack on Clinton, believe <>this: I would be going ballistic reagardless WHO seriously proposed <>this thing. It is just another step in a gradual erosion of our rights <>under the Constitution or Bill of Rights. The last couple of decades <>have been a non-stop series of end-runs around the protections of the <>Constitution. It has to stop. Now is as good a time as any, if it <>isn't too late allready. < <Could be. However, the sky hasn't fallen yet, Chicken Little. Thanks for the name-calling. That really makes your position higly credible. Lenin had a term for folks with your outlook. Do you REALLY have THAT MUCH faith in the trustworthiness and honesty of the government that is primarily concerned with people control? I suspect you will be in for an unpleasant surprise. I would just as soon see this nipped in the bud while/if it still can be done, instead of waiting for yet more abridgements of our Bill of Rights, thank you... -- [email protected] [Without prejudice UCC 1-207] (Pat Myrto) Seattle, WA If all else fails, try: ...!uunet!pilchuck!rwing!pat WISDOM: "Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former." - Albert Einstien

From: [email protected] (Mark Walsh) Subject: Re: Age of Consent == Child Molestation Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA Lines: 40 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Roy Radow) writes: >In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Mark Walsh) writes: ##It should be noted that NAMBLA has not been present in the ##other 600 or so gay parades in the nation. While I view this ##as an isolated event, I am very troubled by its reccurence. >I hope I'm not going to hate myself for getting involved in >this discussion, but I felt obliged to keep things factually >accurate. >Last year NAMBLA marched in the Pride Parades in Boston, New >York and San Francisco. It was not the first time we >participated in these parades and it will not be the last. (I >have marched with the NAMBLA contingent in New York, every >year, for more than a decade.) Thank you for correcting the error in my post to the net. This information came from a newspaper article that was fuzzy in my mind. I can only wonder if there have been similar outcries about NAMBLA's presence in the parades of New York and Boston. Yours in Liberation from Molestation, Mark North American Micro-Biological Laboratories Association For a packet containing a sample bulletin, publications list and membership information send $1.00 postage to... Note: Sometimes I do the darndest things while trying to squelch my desire to flame the living daylights out of somebody for their beliefs and/or associations, especially if they are so genial... Phil, take it away! :-) -- Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh Amateur Radio: KM6XU@WX3K -- AOL: [email protected] -- USCF: L10861 "What, me worry?" - William M. Gaines, 1922-1992 "I'm gonna crush you!" - Andre the Giant, 1946-1993

From: [email protected] (Bob Combs) Subject: Re: Blow up space station, easy way to do it. Organization: SED, Stanford Telecom, Reston, VA 22090 Lines: 16 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: >This might a real wierd idea or maybe not.. > > >Why musta space station be so difficult?? why must we have girders? why be >confined to earth based ideas, lets think new ideas, after all space is not >earth, why be limited by earth based ideas?? > Choose any or all of the following as an answer to the above: 1. Politics 2. Traditions 3. Congress 4. Beauracrats

From: [email protected] (Alan E. Asper) Subject: Re: Top Ten Ways Slick Willie Could Improve His Standing With Americans Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.sbc.com In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Mel Walker) writes: > >> Copyright (c) Edward A. Ipser, Jr., 1993 > >This means we can't quote Ed without his permission. No using these lists >in your .sigs, folks! Oh, darn. Okay, okay, let's stop slamming Ipser, and get on with making fun of other people. Alan

From: [email protected] (Vincent Fox) Subject: Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute Lines: 22 Distribution: usa NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu In <[email protected]> Jason Kratz <[email protected]> writes: [deleted] >The University cops here (who are >are state cops) are armed better than the Chicago police. It seems most >state cops are. I don't know where you are originally from David but you live >in Tennesse and I live in Chicago and see this crap everyday on the news >and in the papers. I think the situation is just a tad different here >than there. Which crap, the ridiculous assertions that Uzis are mowing down cops right and left? The assertions that dialing 911 should be the proper and only option available to the law-abiding citizens? A factoid: 56 cops were killed in the whole country last year. This is down from around 100 in the early '80s. Wow, a real explosion in cop killings there eh? :-) -- "If everything had gone as planned, everything would have been perfect." -BATF spokesperson on CNN 3/2/93, regarding failed raid attempt in TX.

From: [email protected] (Gordon Banks) Subject: Re: MORBUS MENIERE - is there a real remedy? Reply-To: [email protected] (Gordon Banks) Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science Lines: 39 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: > >My biggest resentment is the doctor who makes it seem like most >people with dizziness can be cured. That's definitely not the >case. In most cases, like I said above, it is a long, tedious >process that may or may not end up in a partial cure. > Be sure to say "chronic" dizziness, not just dizziness. Most patients with acute or subacute dizziness will get better. The vertiginous spells of Meniere's will also eventually go away, however, the patient is left with a deaf ear. >To anyone suffering with vertigo, dizziness, or any variation >thereof, my best advice to you (as a fellow-sufferer) is this... >just keep searching...don't let the doctors tell you there's >nothing that can be done...do your own research...and let your This may have helped you, but I'm not sure it is good general advice. The odds that you are going to find some miracle with your own research that is secret or hidden from general knowledge for this or any other disease are slim. When good answers to these problems are found, it is usually in all the newspapers. Until then, spending a great deal of time and energy on the medical problem may divert that energy from more productive things in life. A limited amount should be spent to assure yourself that your doctor gave you the correct story, but after it becomes clear that you are dealing with a problem for which medicine has no good solution, perhaps the best strategy is to join the support group and keep abreast of new findings but not to make a career out of it. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and [email protected] | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Ed McCreary) Subject: Re: some thoughts. In-Reply-To: [email protected]'s message of Fri, 16 Apr 1993 02: 51:29 GMT Organization: Compaq Computer Corp <[email protected]> Lines: 47 >>>>> On Fri, 16 Apr 1993 02:51:29 GMT, [email protected] (Tammy R Healy) said: TRH> I hope you're not going to flame him. Please give him the same coutesy you' TRH> ve given me. But you have been courteous and therefore received courtesy in return. This person instead has posted one of the worst arguments I have ever seen made from the pro-Christian people. I've known several Jesuits who would laugh in his face if he presented such an argument to them. Let's ignore the fact that it's not a true trilemma for the moment (nice word Maddi, original or is it a real word?) and concentrate on the liar, lunatic part. The argument claims that no one would follow a liar, let alone thousands of people. Look at L. Ron Hubbard. Now, he was probably not all there, but I think he was mostly a liar and a con-artist. But look at how many thousands of people follow Dianetics and Scientology. I think the Baker's and Swaggert along with several other televangelists lie all the time, but look at the number of follower they have. As for lunatics, the best example is Hitler. He was obviously insane, his advisors certainly thought so. Yet he had a whole country entralled and came close to ruling all of Europe. How many Germans gave their lives for him? To this day he has his followers. I'm just amazed that people still try to use this argument. It's just so obviously *wrong*. -- Ed McCreary ,__o [email protected] _-\_<, "If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/'(*)

From: [email protected] (Mark Tearle) Subject: Re: Need to find out number to a phone line Organization: The University of Western Australia Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au Well here in Australia you dial 11544 to get the number read back to you if you live in the country include the area code of the nearest capital city eg for wa 09 11544 Yours Mark -- #***********************************************************************# # Mark Tearle | # # | # email: [email protected] |

From: [email protected] (David E. Scheim) Subject: Re: Burzynski's "Antineoplastons" Organization: NIH Lines: 58 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Josh Schwimmer) writes: >I've recently listened to a tape by Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski, in which he >claims to have discovered a series naturally occuring peptides with anti- >cancer properties that he names antineoplastons. Burzynski says that his >work has met with hostility in the United States, despite the favorable >responses of his subjects during clinical trials. >What is the generally accepted opinion of Dr. Burzynski's research? He >paints himself as a lone researcher with a new breakthrough battling an >intolerant medical establishment, but I have no basis from which to judge >his claims. Two weeks ago, however, I read that the NIH's Department of >Alternative Medicine has decided to focus their attention on Burzynski's >work. Their budget is so small that I imagine they wouldn't investigate a >treatment that didn't seem promising. >Any opinions on Burzynski's antineoplastons or information about the current >status of his research would be appreciated. >-- >Joshua Schwimmer >[email protected] There's been extensive discussion on the CompuServe Cancer Forum about Dr. Burzynski's treatment as a result of the decision of a forum member's father to undertake his treatment for brain glioblastoma. This disease is universally and usually rapidly fatal. After diagnosis in June 1992, the tumor was growing rapidly despite radiation and chemotherapy. The forum member checked extensively on Dr. Burzynki's track record for this disease. He spoke to a few patients in complete remission for a few years from glioblastoma following this treatment and to an NCI oncologist who had audited other such case histories and found them valid and impressive. After the forum member's father began Dr. Burzynski's treatment in September, all subsequent scans performed under the auspices of his oncologist in Chicago have shown no tumor growth with possible signs of shrinkage or necrosis. The patient's oncologist, although telling him he would probably not live past December 1992, was vehemently opposed to his trying Dr. Burzynski's treatment. Since the tumor stopped its rapid growth under Dr. Burzynski's treatment, she's since changed her attitude toward continuing these treatments, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Dr. Burzynski is an M.D., Ph.D. with a research background who found a protein that is at very low serum levels in cancer patients, synthesized it, and administers it to patients with certain cancer types. There is little understanding of the actual mechanism of activity. /*********************************************************************/ /* --- David E. Scheim --- */ /* BITNET: none */ /* INTERNET: [email protected] PHONE: 301 496-2194 */ /* CompuServe: 73750,3305 FAX: 301 402-1065 */ /* */ /* DISCLAIMER: These comments are offered to share knowledge based */ /* upon my personal views. They do not represent the positions */ /* of my employer. */ /*********************************************************************/

From: [email protected] (Dave Duff) Subject: Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH - UPDATE Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division Lines: 3 Distribution: usa NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com NUT CASE PANICS!!!!REALIZES HE'S MADE A COMPLETE FOOL OF HIMSELF IN FRONT OF THOUSANDS OF NETTERS!!!!BACKS AWAY FROM EARLIER RASH STATEMENTS!!!!GOD HAVE MERCY ON HIM!!!!

From: [email protected] (Samuel Ross) Subject: Sams Comics for sale (no auction!!!!) Nntp-Posting-Host: ravel.udel.edu Organization: University of Delaware Distribution: usa Lines: 373 OK. Instead of holding an auction, I have decided to compute prices for each comic (after many suggestions). These are the most reasonable prices I can give (not negotiable). If you would like to purchase a comic (or group), simply email me with the title and issue #'s you want. The price for each issue is shown beside each comic. First come, first served!!! There is no more bidding. Meet my price and it is yours. I can be reached at this email address: [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected] NO MORE HAGGLING ABOUT THE PRICE!!!!!!!! LOTS OF COMICS FOR $1, $2, or $3 LOOK AT LIST!!!!! For all those who have bought comics from me, thanks!!! All comics are near mint unless otherwise noted (my books were graded by mile high comics and other comic professional collectors, not me!) Here is the list: Incredible Hulk 156 (vs another Hulk) $3 195 $2 196 $2 246 (vs Captain Marvel) $1 248 $1 249 $1 250 (Double size issue vs Silver Surfer) $5 255 (vs Thor) $1 279 $1 300 $2 312 $2 313 $1 316 (vs Bi Coastal Avengers) $1 347 $1 348 $1 350 (vs Thing) $2 354 $1 358 $1 360 $1 362 (vs Werewolf By Night) $2 364 $1 365 $1 366 $1 379 (1 copy) $5 Punisher 50 $1 57 $2 Punisher War Journal 29 (Ghost Rider) $2 30 (Ghost Rider) $2 Punisher Armory 1 $4 2 $2 Original Ghost Rider Rides Again (Reprint) 1 $1 Ghost Rider (old series) 37 $3 43 (vs Johnny Blaze) $3 77 (2 copies, origin of GR dream) $4 each Ghost Rider (new series) 15 (1st print, Green glow in dark cover, 1 copy) $5 15 (2nd print, gold cover w/ glow cover) $3 Web of Spiderman 56 (2 copies) $2 each 60 $3 69 (vs Hulk, 1 copy left!!!) $2 70 (SpiderHulk, 1 copy left!!!) $2 71 $1 72 $1 78 $1 Deadly Foes of Spiderman 1 (2 copies) $2 each 2 $2 3 $2 Amazing Spiderman vs Dr. Octopus (special NACME issue) $2 Amazing Spiderman 350 (vs Dr. Doom, 1 copy LEFT!!!) $2 Spiderman (1990) 1 (silver, not bagged) $4 6 $3 7 $3 8 (2 copies) $2 each 9 (w/ Wolverine, 1 COPY LEFT!!!) $2 10 $2 11 $1 13 $5 16 $1 New Warriors 1 (gold cover) $2 8 $4 10 $2 11 $1 12 $1 13 $1 14 (w/ Darkhawk) $1 15 $1 Superman Man of Steel #1 $2 Superman (new) 53 (2 copies) $1 each 55 $1 56 $1 Adventures of Superman 479 $1 Annual #3 $1 Superman Annual #3 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1 Action Comics #666 $1 Avengers West Coast #69 (Hawkeye vs US Agent) $1 Batman 465 (Robin returns) $2 466 $1 467 $1 Annual #15 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $3 Captain America 230 (vs Hulk) $2 257 (vs Hulk) $1 Armegedon 2001 1 $4 2 $2 Foolkiller #1 $2 Infinity Gauntlet 1 $6 4 $3 5 $3 Double Dragon #1 $1 Deathlok (series) 2 $1 Transformers #80 (last issue) $2 Wonder Man 1 $1 2 $1 Flaming Carrot #25 (w/ Ninja Turtles) $2 The Comet #1 $1 Legend of the Shield #1 $1 Justice Society of America 1 $1 2 $1 3 $1 4 $1 Official movie mag from Turtles II movie (sealed w/ Jelloman comic) $5 Robin 1 (1 copies w/ poster) $3 1 (3rd print) $1 5 (6 copies) $1 each Guardians of the Galaxy 1 $6 2 $3 3 $2 4 $2 5 $2 6 $2 7 $2 8 $2 9 (2 copies) $3 each 10 $2 11 $2 12 $1 13 $3 14 $3 15 $1 16 $1 17 $1 18 (2 copies) $2 each Superman vs Amazing Spiderman (oversized issue from 70's) $7 DarkHawk 1 (3 copies) $8 each 2 (2 copies) $6 each 3 $5 4 $4 5 $4 6 $3 7 $2 8 $2 9 $3 10 $1 Thor 246 $1 428 $1 429 (vs Juggernaut) $2 430 (w/ Ghost Rider) $1 431 $1 432 (Thor vs Loki, 2 copies) $3 each 433 (new Thor) $2 Annual #16 $1 What if.... 13 $1 23 $1 25 $2 26 $1 Alpha Flight 29 $1 51 $6 53 $6 94 (vs Fant. 4) $1 New Mutants 22 $2 100 (last issue, 1st look at X-Force, 1st print, 2 copies) $5 each 100 (2nd print, gold cover) $4 Flash (new) 43 $1 48 $1 49 $1 50 $2 51 $1 Annual #4 $1 X-Men (new) 1 (all 5 covers) $1 each but $2 for magneto foldout cover Uncanny X-Men 191 $3 215 $2 255 (2 copies) $2 each 258 $6 268 (1 sold,1 copy left!, Lee reg artist) $10 275 (1 COPY LEFT 1st print) $6 275 (gold 2nd print) $3 276 $3 277 $3 278 $2 279 $2 280 $2 281 $3 282 $4 283 $6 Defenders 52 (Hulk vs Sub Mariner) $2 Fantastic Four 347 $4 348 $2 349 (3 copies) $2 each Wolverine 11 $3 20 $2 41 (w/ Cable, 2 copies) $6 each 42 $4 43 $3 Silver Surfer (1987) 1 $6 2 $3 3 $3 4 $3 5 $2 6 $2 8 $2 22 $2 24 $2 32 $2 49 $2 50 (Foil cover, only 1 copy left!!) $6 51 $2 52 $2 53 $1 54 $1 55 $1 56 $1 58 $2 59 $2 Avengers 326 $3 328 (origin of Rage) $3 X-Factor 40 $6 67 $3 68 $6 71 $3 73 $1 Quasar 21 $1 22 $1 23 $1 24 $1 Green Lantern (1990) 3 $2 9 (2 copies) $1 each 10 $1 11 $1 12 $1 Toxic Avenger 1 (3 copies) $1 each 2 $1 Sleepwalker 1 (3 copies) $2 each 3 $1 7 $1 Kool Aid Man #1 (sealed in white bag, 2 copies) $2 each X-Force 1 (bagged w/ Cable Card) $4 1 (bagged w/ Shatterstar Card) $3 2 $2 3 $1 4 $1 NFL Superpro 1 $1 Dr. Strange #31 $1 Hawkworld Annual #2 (2nd print, Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1 Hawk & Dove Annual #2 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1 Justice League of America Annual #5 (Armegedon 2001 tie in) $1 Send all bids and comments to [email protected] Thanks Sam (the "ex" comic book collector) College of Electrical Engineering, University of Delaware

From: [email protected] (Blaine Gardner) Subject: Re: IT AIN'T FOR ME! Keywords: FAQ, FUBAR, ISIFU Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.187.85.70 Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation Lines: 11 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Speedy Mercer) writes: >I am confused (like THAT'S a surprise!), someone asked ME for a copy of the >FAQ via E-Mail. As I am not the KotFAQ, I was wondering what the proper >responce is? Our panel of judges has deliberated the question, and the answer is: Send the requester one copy, and then gang-FAQ yourself. -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Gary McTaggart) Subject: 3d Animation Studio file format?? Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept. Lines: 7 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: beach.cis.ufl.edu Is the ".3ds" file format for Autodesk's 3D Animation Studio available? Thanks, Gary (Please respond by email. I have a hell of a time keeping up with news!! :-) )

From: [email protected] (Ellen E. Forbes) Subject: Novice Beekeeper Seeks Tools of Trade Summary: Looking for beekeeping garb Keywords: bzz ... bzz ... bzz ... ouch! Article-I.D.: sequent.1993Apr6.200009.15076 Distribution: usa Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. Lines: 10 Nntp-Posting-Host: crg1.sequent.com If you'd like to find a home for that beekeeping equipment you'll never use again, here's a likely victim, uh, customer. To make a deal, call: Laura Forbes (503)275-4483 during regular business hours, or, respond to me through e-mail and I'll pass your message along.

From: [email protected] (Charles J. Divine) Subject: Space Station Redesign Chief Resigns for Health Reasons Organization: NASA/GSFC Greenbelt Maryland Lines: 12 Writer Kathy Sawyer reported in today's Washington Post that Joseph Shea, the head of the space station redesign has resigned for health reasons. Shea was hospitalized shortly after his selection in February. He returned yesterday to lead the formal presentation to the independent White House panel. Shea's presentation was rambling and almost inaudible. Shea's deputy, former astronaut Bryan O'Connor, will take over the effort. Goldin asserted that the redesign effort is on track. -- Chuck Divine

From: [email protected] (Steve Boylan) Subject: Re: Christian Daemons? [Biblical Demons, the update] Reply-To: [email protected] (Steve Boylan) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 61 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (T.O. Radzykewycz) writes: > >>[email protected] (Michael Parks Swaim) writes: > >>> 666, the file permission of the beast. > > >[email protected] (T.O. Radzykewycz) writes: > >> Sorry, but the file permission of the beast is 600. > >> > >> And the file permission of the home directory of the > >> beast is 700. > > [email protected] (Steve Boylan) writes: > >Hey, radzy, it must depend on your system's access policy. > >I get: > > $ ls -lg /usr/users > > total 3 > > drwxrwxrwx 22 beast system 1536 Jan 01 1970 beast > > drwxr-x--x 32 boylan users 2048 Mar 31 09:08 boylan > > drwxr-xr-x 2 guest users 512 Sep 18 1992 guest > > $ su > > Password: > > root $ su beast > > beast $ umask > > 111 > > beast $ ^D > > root $ ^D > > $ > > Just a minute.... > > $ grep beast /etc/passwd > beast:k5tUk76RAUogQ:497:0:Not Walt Disney!:/usr/users/beast: > $ mv /usr/users/beast/.profile /usr/users/beast/.profile, > $ echo umask 077 >> /usr/users/beast/.profile > $ cat > /usr/users/beast/.profile > chmod 700 /usr/users/beast > mv .mailrc .mailrc, > echo beast logged in | mail radzy%[email protected] > mv .mailrc, .mailrc > mv /usr/users/beast/.profile, /usr/users/beast/.profile > ^D > $ chmod 777 /usr/users/beast/.profile > $ cat /usr/users/beast/.profile, >> /usr/users/beast/.profile > > <waits a while, finally gets mail.> > > I think you made a mistake. Check it again. > I see . . . you're not running Ultrix! :-) - - Steve -- Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival, April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!

From: [email protected] (Joseph Hernandez) Subject: MLB Standings and Scores for Sat., Apr. 17th, 1993 Organization: JTC Enterprises Sports Division (Major League Baseball Dept.) Lines: 73 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu Keywords: mlb, 04.17 MLB Standings and Scores for Satruday, April 17th, 1993 (including yesterday's games) NATIONAL WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road San Francisco Giants 07 04 .636 -- 6-4 Won 2 04-01 03-03 Houston Astros 06 04 .600 0.5 6-4 Won 1 01-03 05-01 Atlanta Braves 06 06 .500 1.5 5-5 Lost 3 04-03 03-02 Los Angeles Dodgers 04 07 .364 3.0 4-6 Won 1 01-03 03-04 Colorado Rockies 03 06 .333 3.0 3-6 Lost 1 03-03 00-03 San Diego Padres 03 07 .300 3.5 3-7 Won 1 01-04 02-03 Cincinnati Reds 02 08 .200 4.5 2-8 Lost 4 01-03 01-05 NATIONAL EAST Philadelphia Phillies 08 02 .800 -- 8-2 Lost 1 05-01 03-01 Pittsburgh Pirates 07 03 .700 1.0 7-3 Lost 1 03-02 04-01 St. Louis Cardinals 07 03 .700 1.0 7-3 Lost 1 04-02 03-01 New York Mets 05 04 .556 2.5 5-4 Won 1 02-03 03-01 Chicago Cubs 05 05 .500 3.0 5-5 Won 2 02-02 03-03 Montreal Expos 05 05 .500 3.0 5-5 Won 2 02-02 03-03 Florida Marlins 03 07 .300 5.0 3-7 Lost 1 02-04 01-03 AMERICAN WEST Won Lost Pct. GB Last 10 Streak Home Road Texas Rangers 06 03 .667 -- 6-3 Lost 2 04-02 02-01 California Angels 05 03 .625 0.5 5-3 Lost 1 03-02 02-01 Chicago White Sox 05 04 .556 1.0 5-4 Won 2 02-03 03-01 Minnesota Twins 05 04 .556 1.0 5-4 Won 1 02-02 03-02 Oakland Athletics 04 04 .500 1.5 4-4 Lost 2 04-02 00-02 Seattle Mariners 04 05 .444 2.0 4-5 Lost 2 03-02 01-03 Kansas City Royals 02 08 .200 4.5 2-8 Lost 1 01-05 01-03 AMERICAN EAST Boston Red Sox 07 03 .700 -- 7-3 Lost 1 03-01 04-02 New York Yankees 06 04 .600 1.0 6-4 Won 1 03-01 03-03 Detroit Tigers 05 04 .556 1.5 5-4 Won 3 03-00 02-04 Toronto Blue Jays 05 04 .556 1.5 5-4 Lost 1 04-02 01-02 Cleveland Indians 04 06 .400 3.0 4-6 Won 1 03-01 01-05 Baltimore Orioles 03 06 .333 3.5 3-6 Won 2 01-02 02-04 Milwaukee Brewers 02 05 .286 3.5 2-5 Lost 4 00-02 02-03 YESTERDAY'S SCORES (IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order) NATIONAL LEAGUE AMERICAN LEAGUE New York Mets 3 Chicago White Sox 9 Cincinnati Reds 1 Boston Red Sox 4 Florida Marlins 3 California Angels 1 Houston Astros 9 Baltimore Orioles 4 Philadelphia Phillies 1 Kansas City Royals 3 Chicago Cubs 3 Minnesota Twins 4 (10) Colorado Rockies 2 Seattle Mariners 0 Montreal Expos 3 Detroit Tigers 5 Pittsburgh Pirates 4 Toronto Blue Jays 1 Los Angeles Dodgers 7 Cleveland Indians 13 Atlanta Braves 0 Texas Rangers 3 San Francisco Giants 1 New York Yankees 5 St. Louis Cardinals 1 Oakland Athletics PPD San Diego Padres 5 Milwaukee Brewers RAIN -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS [email protected] | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS [email protected] | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Bob Van Cleef) Subject: Re: SSPX schism ? Organization: The Land of Garg Lines: 48 >From: [email protected] (Joseph H. Buehler) >Many Catholics will decide to side with the Pope. There is some >soundness in this, because the Papacy is infallible, so eventually >some Pope *will* straighten all this out. But, on the other hand, >there is also unsoundness in this, in that, in the short term, the >Popes may indeed be wrong, and such Catholics are doing nothing to >help the situation by obeying them where they're wrong. In fact, if >the situation is grave enough, they sin in obeying him. At the very >least, they're wasting a great opportunity, because they are failing >to love Christ in a heroic way at the very time that He needs this >badly. Joe; Your logic excapes me. If the Papacy is infallible, and this is a matter of faith, then the Pope cannot "be wrong!" If, on the other hand, this is not a matter of faith, but a matter of Church law, then we should still obey as the Pope is the legal head of the church. In other words, given the doctrine of infallibility, we have no choice but to obey. Bob -- ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> \|/ <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Bob Van Cleef Peace -0- be [email protected] The Land of Garg BBS unto /|\ you BBS (408) 378-5108 ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> | <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< [You might want to look at the FAQ on infallibility. The doctrine on infallibility does not say that the pope is always right. All Catholic theologians acknowledge that there have been a number of occasions when the pope was wrong. There appear to be two aspects to infallibility. One is a general concept that in the long run the Church is protected from serious error. However this does not mean that it's impossible for it to take wrong turns at one time or another. The more specific concept of papal infallibility is that in very specific circumstances a papal statement can be known to be infallible. However a relatively small fraction of statements meet those criteria. This does not absolve Catholics from the duty to obey even "ordinary" teachings of the pope. However only a few teachings are made in a way that is explicitly infallible. --clh]

From: [email protected] Subject: Space Advertising (1 of 2) X-Sender: newtout 0.08 Feb 23 1993 Lines: 81 Brian Yamauchi asks: [Regarding orbital billboards...] >And does anyone have any more details other than what was in the WN >news blip? How serious is this project? Is this just in the "wild >idea" stage or does it have real funding? Well, I had been collecting data for next edition of the Commercial Space News/Space Technology Investor... To summarize: SPACE ADVERTISING First, advertising on space vehicles is not new -- it is very common practice to put the cooperating organization's logos on the space launch vehicle. For example, the latest GPS launcher had the (very prominent) logos on its side of - McDonnell Douglas (the Delta launcher) - Rockwell International (who built the GPS satellite) - USAF (who paid for the satellite and launch), and - the GPS/Navstar program office This has not been considered "paid advertising" but rather "public relations", since the restrictions have been such that only organizations involved in the launch could put their logos on the side, and there was no money exchanged for this. [However, putting a 10' high logo on the side of the launch vehicle facing the cameras is "advertising" as much as it is "public relations", in my opinion.] [And by the way, I note that the DC-X test vehicle has rather prominent McDonnell-Douglas and SDIO logos on the side...] There have been several studies looking at the revenue potentials for use of space vehicles for advertising, or placing large advertising signs in orbit. On the shuttle, for example, I know of several serious studies in the early and mid 1980's which looked at putting logos on the external tank, or on the sides of the payload bay. These ventures would be different than "public relations", in that the logos or displays would not be restricted to the firms participating on that flight, and would involve payment of sums for the right to fly the logos in a prominent organization. (For example, painting the ET to look like a Pepsi can, or putting a Disneyworld logo on the inside of the payload bay where the cameras would scan past it.) ADVERTS ON LAUNCH VEHICLES The first paid advertising was done on a Soviet launcher in about 1990, when several non-involved foreign organizations were allowed to pay to put their logos on a Proton launch. (An Italian shoe company was one of the first advertisers, I remember.) Similarly, Soviet cosmonauts on Mir made a paid advertisement for the last Olympic games, and have gleefully shown banners and other items from participating firms and organizations. Mars candy bars, for example, got a plug from orbit as a sponsor of the launch of the British visiting cosmonaut to Mir. Now US firms are starting to put paid advertisements on launch vehicles. The upcoming Conestoga launch (in June) putting the COMET recoverable payload capsule into orbit will have paid advertisements on the side, for Arnold Schwarzenegger's upcoming movie "The Last Action Hero". Besides the usual logos of the participating organizations, Columbia pictures has paid $500,000 to put ads on the main fuselage of the mission's Conestoga rocket, its booster rockets, and on the COMET payload, which will orbit the Earth for one month. A concept for this advertising display was published in Space News magazine a couple of months ago. (As a side note: Robert Lorsch, an advertising executive, is talking about suing NASA. He charges NASA with appropriating an idea he created with the space agency in 1981 to form corporate advertising sponsorships on NASA spacecraft as a way to get funding for the space program. Lorsch contends that in selling advertising space on the upcoming COMET, NASA violated an agreement that it "would not use his idea without him being the exclusive representative for NASA and receiving compensation." This is being disputed, since the launch is a "commercial launch" and NASA is receiving none of the advertising revenues, but the funding for the COMET program is coming from NASA.) ORBITAL "BILLBOARDS" Orbital "billboards" have been the staple of science fiction for some time. Arthur C. Clarke wrote about one example, and Robert Heinlein described another in "The Man Who Sold the Moon". Several different potential projects have been developed, although none have been implemented, but the most real prior to 1993 being the "Eiffel II" project, which would have placed a large inflatable sculpture in orbit to celebrate the French Republic's Bi-centennial. (cont) --- Maximus 2.01wb

From: [email protected] (Forrest E. Lumpkin III) Subject: HELP - SCSI Woes on Mac IIfx Keywords: SCSI, IIfx Organization: NASA Ames Research Center Lines: 46 I am having trouble with SCSI on a Mac IIfx. The machine is 3 years old and I have been using the same hard drive (internal Maxtor LXT-200S) for two and a half years. The disk recently crashed. I reformatted (Silverlining 5.42), but during the reformat I received random write errors during testing. The error message reported was like: Sector 0: Write error detected after testing good - sector not mapped out. This occurred randomly all over the hard disk (which makes me suspect the diagnostic's reference to Sector 0 ??? ). On the third reformat and after reinstalling the SCSI read/write loops I was able to get through passes 2,3, and 4 with no errors. (Pass 1 for some reason reported a lot of errors, but still mapped out no sectors.) I decided to go ahead and try to resinstall System 7 and reload my data from a backup. This proceded normally; however, I now have sub-optimal performance. Symptoms include: o Frequent crashes o Instances of extremely sluggish disk access requiring a reboot to correct. o Instances of not finding the disk on the SCSI chain on reboot. - If I boot from Norton Utl. after this occurs, it cannot find the disk either. - The only thing that fixes this is recycling the power. It sometimes requires several attempts. QUESTIONS: 1) Has anyone had this type of problem before? 2) Is the problem with the fx motherboard (And its non-standard SCSI implementation) or with my Maxtor Disk? Is there some diagnostic software that would help me make this determination? 3) Is it a termination problem? I currently have external Syquest and an external DataFrame XP60 on the chain. The XP60 is at the end, and has internal termination; so I am not using the IIfx terminator. I do have the SCSI filter installed on the internal drive. I have run with this exact steup for 2 1/2 years with one previous disk crash requiring a reformat (about a year ago). I also have symptoms if I disconnect the external devices; so I don't see how SCSI termination would now be an issue. Of course who knows :-< Help would be much appreciated. Forrest E. Lumpkin III NASA Ames Research Center [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Constantinos Malamas) Subject: Re: How do I quickly switch between Windows screen resolutions? Distribution: na Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 18 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (The Idealistic Cynic) writes: >Can someone out there tell me how to switch Window's screen resolution >quickly and easily? I know that I can go back into install to do it, >--- >Sean L. Gilley > Take a look at ftp.cica.indiana.edu at pub/pc/win3/(util?misc?) for a program caleld vswitch.zip.It's as close to want you want as you can get in WIn3.1 ... Hope it helps... -- Costas Malamas ____________________________________________________________ Georgia Institute of Technology OIT UA -- Opinions expressed are not necessarily OIT's... Internet: [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Kiran Wagle) Subject: Replacing internal FDHD w/ floptical? Organization: the Syllabub Sea Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu Hi all, I have a IIsi with a floppy drive that might be bad (and might just be out of alignment, I haven't checked yet. :-)) If the drive is not easily reparable, I'd like to replace it with an _internal_ floptical. Can this be easily done? Can it be done at all? I'm assuming that floptical drives can read and write both 800k and 1.4k floppies. If this is not in fact true, please tell me. Thanks in advance, ~ Kiran

From: [email protected] (Richard Casares) Subject: Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot. Nntp-Posting-Host: krill.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 32 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Driftwood) writes: |> |> I totally agree with each point you made. Jose Viscaino looked |> like a single A hitter up there. Who swings on 3-1 count with Maddux |> pitching and your teams down by a run, and you haven't touched the ball |> all |> day. I also think too much is made of that lefty-righty thing. |> Watching |> the Cubs games I get the feeling Steve Stone knows a lot more about |> what |> the Cubs should be doing than Lefebre does. Harry said it best when he |> stated after another terrible Vizcaino at bat-- we can't wait til |> Sandberg returns! I tell you, Steve Stone is like a prophet. He must be making a ton in the boradcoast booth because I can't understand why he's not actually back in the game itself. The other day he called Sosa's homerun against the Sox and claimed the game would be going into extra innings when the score was 8-3 in the 5th. So yesterday he notices that Sosa's ahead in the count against Maddux and says, "This is a fastball situation and Sosa will be looking for it. But this is also the spot where Maddux throws the straight change." Sure enough. Sosa gets ahead on it and pops it up to the infield. Stoney for Cubs manager! -Rick

From: [email protected] (Lucas Adamski) Subject: Fast polygon routine needed Keywords: polygon, needed Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 6 This may be a fairly routine request on here, but I'm looking for a fast polygon routine to be used in a 3D game. I have one that works right now, but its very slow. Could anyone point me to one, pref in ASM that is fairly well documented and flexible? Thanx, //Lucas.

From: Marc VanHeyningen <[email protected]> Subject: RIPEM Frequently Asked Questions Content-Type: text/x-usenet-FAQ; version=1.0; title="RIPEM FAQ" Originator: [email protected] Supersedes: <[email protected]> Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University Expires: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 00:00:00 GMT Lines: 255 Archive-name: ripem/faq Last-update: Sun, 7 Mar 93 21:00:00 -0500 ABOUT THIS POSTING ------------------ This is a (still rather rough) listing of likely questions and information about RIPEM, a program for public key mail encryption. It (this FAQ, not RIPEM) was written and will be maintained by Marc VanHeyningen, <[email protected]>. It will be posted to a variety of newsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific to RIPEM is redirected to the group alt.security.ripem. This month, I have reformatted this posting in an attempt to comply with the standards for HyperText FAQ formatting to allow easy manipulation of this document over the World Wide Web. Let me know what you think. DISCLAIMER ---------- Nothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything other than one person's opinion. If you want real legal advice, talk to a real lawyer. QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS --------------------- 1) What is RIPEM? RIPEM is a program which performs Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM) using the cryptographic techniques of RSA and DES. It allows your electronic mail to have the properties of authentication (i.e. who sent it can be confirmed) and privacy (i.e. nobody can read it except the intended recipient.) RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan <[email protected]>. Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines, which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc. 2) How can I get RIPEM? RIPEM contains the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution to people who are not citizens or permanent residents of the U.S. or Canada. Therefore, the following request is quoted from the README file: #Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution #outside of the USA or Canada. This is a personal request from me, #the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM. Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is included with the distribution. You should read it before using RIPEM. The best way to get it is to ask a friend for a copy, since this will reduce the load on those sites that do carry it (not to mention the humans that run them.) Naturally this requires that you trust the friend. RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent residents in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README file for info. Last I looked, this site contains only the source tree, and does not contain compiled binaries or the nice Mac version. RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its "home site" on rpub.cl.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents. To find out how to obtain access, ftp there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file GETTING_ACCESS. For convenience, binaries for many architectures are available here in addition to the full source tree. 3) Will RIPEM run on my machine? Probably. It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.) Ports to Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt. More ports are expected, and help of users is invited. 4) Will RIPEM work with my mailer? Probably. How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though. The users guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH. Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU Emacs. If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure, and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem. 5) What is RSA? RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key. This means that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to decrypt. Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other, you may publish your encryption, or public key widely and keep your decryption, or private key to yourself. Anyone can use your public key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to decrypt it. (Note that the "message" sent with RSA is normally just the DES key to the real message. (See "What is DES?") Note that the above only provides for privacy. For authentication, the fingerprint of the message (See "What is a fingerprint, like MD5?") is encrypted with the sender's private key. The recipient can use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm that the message must have come from the sender. RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who invented it. To find out more about RSA, ftp to rsa.com and look in pub/faq/ or look in sci.crypt. 6) What is DES? DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or secret-key, crypto system. Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to encrypt and decrypt messages. However, DES is much faster than RSA. RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts your mail with DES using that key. It then encrypts that key with the recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter, allowing the recipient to recover the DES key. DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a key length considered too short by modern standards. However, it should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large corporation or government agency. It is not unlikely that future RIPEMs will strengthen the symmetric cipher, possibly by using multiple encryption with DES. 7) What is PEM, and how does RIPEM relate? PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a system for allowing easy transfer of encrypted electronic mail. It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115. RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not handle at this time. Their addition is planned. 8) What's this about distributing and authenticating keys? For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know your public key. For you to be able to confirm that the message received came from her, you must know her public key. It is important that this information be accurate; if a "bad guy" convinces her that his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read. RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server, the distributed finger servers, and a flat file. All three are described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution. None of them provide perfect security. 9) Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar? RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS identifier describing various characteristics about the key, so the first bunch of characters in your key may be the same as those of lots of other people's keys. This does not mean your keys are similar, but only that they are the same class of key, were generated with the same program, are of the same length, etc. 10) What is a fingerprint, like MD5? MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc. It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash, of the plaintext. It is cryptographically secure because it is not possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint. Thus, instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key, only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication. MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a passphrase interpreter or cookie generator. MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in RFC 1321. 11) What is PGP? PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy. PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently. PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA. Some major differences between PGP and RIPEM: - PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without a direct network connection. - RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability of working with other PEM software. PGP makes no attempt to be compatible with anything other than PGP (in fact, PGP 1.0 is not compatible with PGP 2.0.) - RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSA Data Security Inc. RSAREF comes with a license which allows noncommercial use. PGP uses its own implementation of RSA which is not licensed; thus, PKP, the firm holding the U.S. patents on the RSA algorithm, claims that it is a infringement of that patent to make, use or sell PGP in the U.S. or Canada. In acknowledgement of this, PGP's original author, Phil Zimmermann, says in the documentation: #In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency, #you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public #Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software. PGP is #contraband. - Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside the U.S. and Canada. However, PGP already exists on many ftp sites in Europe and other places. Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues. Note that the above facts, both regarding patent and export restrictions, are somewhat controversial; many people think it shouldn't be that way, and some people interpret various documents differently. Unfortunately, discussions of it on the net inevitably seem to produce more heat than light, and probably belong in misc.legal.computing. (See: "DISCLAIMER") 12) What about RPEM? RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail. It was similar to RIPEM, but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in an attempt to avoid the patent on RSA. It was written by Mark Riordan, the same author as RIPEM. Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many (including Rabin), Public Key Partners (PKP) claimed that their patent was broad enough to cover any public-key cipher whose strength rested in the difficulty of factoring products of large primes, not just RSA. This claim is not universally accepted by any means, but was not challenged for pragmatic reasons. RPEM is not really used anymore. It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP. 13) What is MIME? MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is described in RFC 1341. You can find out about it in the newsgroup comp.mail.mime. How PEM should interact with MIME is not yet entirely clear; some people use the stopgap solution of having a MIME type application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM messages as MIME ones. I hope some standards will emerge. Draft Internet documents exist on the matter. 14) I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM... You may wish to check the companion post "ripem-attacks" which discusses some of the more obvious attacks on RIPEM's security and what procedures will minimize the risk. RIPEM's main "weak area" is probably key distribution.

From: [email protected] (Jim Kavitsky) Subject: comp.windows.x.intrinsics Summary: Clipping of character's high order bit Nntp-Posting-Host: hsi86.hsi.com Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford CT Lines: 38 I am having a problem with the high order bit of a character being clipped when entered in an xterm window under motif. I have reprogrammed the F1 key to transmit a <ff> <be> character sequence by using the following line in .Xdefaults: ~Ctrl ~Shift ~Alt <Key> F1 : string(0xff) string(0xbe) \n\ I merge in this line with xrdb -merge and then create the new xterm which has the remapped F1 key. The problem that arises is that the application which is recieving input at the time only sees a <7f> <3e> sequence, which is <ff> <be> with the high order bit of each character being filtered or ignored. When I run xev and press the F1 key, I get the correct value showing up in the following two key events: KeyPress event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001, root 0x28, subw 0x0, time 2067815294, (67,80), root:(74,104), state 0x0, keycode 16 (keysym 0xffbe, F1), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x2800001, root 0x28, subw 0x0, time 2067815406, (67,80), root:(74,104), state 0x0, keycode 16 (keysym 0xffbe, F1), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" Notice that the keysym being transmitted is correct; 0xffbe. But when I use the F1 key while in vi or in a program I wrote to spit back the hex values of keyboard input, I only get <7f> <3e>. Does anyone know why the high order bit is being filtered and what I can do to make sure that the entire 8bits make it through to the final application? Any help is greatly appreciated. Please *email* any responses. Jim Kavitsky [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Chris Huey) Subject: Re: Workspace Managers for Win 3.1 - a small review Organization: Tactix ReEngineering, Inc. Lines: 28 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6] Jamie Scuglia ([email protected]) wrote: : Thanks to all those people who recommended Workspace managers for : Windows 3.1. I found 3 shareware Workspace Managers, from Australia's : MS-WINDOWS archive (monu6.cc.monash.edu.au), which mirrors some : sites in the U.S. The three I found were: : : 1. WORKSPACES 1.10 (wspace.zip) [ review deleted ] : 2. WORKSHIFT 1.6 (wrksft16.zip) [ review deleted ] : 3. BIGDESK 2.30 and BACKMENU (backdesk.zip) [ review deleted ] I really appreciate this information. However, given that I don't have direct Internet access - which means I don't have Archie access - I must resort to using FTPMAIL. This means that I need the site name and the directory where these workspace managers are located. So, can you (or anyone else) post or Email me the needed information? Thanks very much!!! Chris -- Chris Huey Tactix ReEngineering, Inc. [email protected] Voice: (503) 684-4099 "CodeCrafters: Custom crafted software in about an hour"

From: [email protected] (Greg Howard) Subject: Re: PLANETS STILL: IMAGES ORBIT BY ETHER TWIST Organization: University of Wisconsin - Astronomy Department Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: uwast.astro.wisc.edu Actually, the "ether" stuff sounded a fair bit like a bizzare, qualitative corruption of general relativity. nothing to do with the old-fashioned, ether, though. maybe somebody could loan him a GR text at a low level. didn't get much further than that, tho.... whew. greg

From: [email protected] Subject: Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. Organization: Wright State University Lines: 16 I assume that can only be guessed at by the assumed energy of the event and the 1/r^2 law. So, if the 1/r^2 law is incorrect (assume some unknown material [dark matter??] inhibits Gamma Ray propagation), could it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic events happening much closer to us? The even distribution could be caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays being shorter then 1/2 the thickness of the disk of the galaxy. Just some idle babbling, -- Jim Batka | Work Email: [email protected] | Elvis is | Home Email: [email protected] | DEAD! 64 years is 33,661,440 minutes ... and a minute is a LONG time! - Beatles: _ Yellow Submarine_

From: [email protected] (ronald.j.deblock..jr) Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles Organization: AT&T Distribution: usa Lines: 14 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: >Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v. >This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon. Very rare also. > > Mike Sylvester Umass > Yes, I saw a 200 Turbo Quattro wagon on I-287 in NJ on Monday. I thought Audi stopped selling wagons in the US after the 5000. This is exactly the type of vehicle I would like to own. I bet its price is 4-5 times my car budget. -- Ron DeBlock [email protected] (that's a number 1 in rdb1, not letter l) AT&T Bell Labs Somerset, NJ USA

From: [email protected] (Mark Singer) Subject: Re: Young Catchers Keywords: Solid != good Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Lines: 64 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Joseph Sheehan) writes: Most of the points you made about Lopez v. Berryhill/Olson have been made by others, and realizing that Lopez must be the second coming of Frank Thomas, I have relented and praised the unmistakeable wisdom of his supporters. > >Nope. They're baseball management, possible the most short-sighted >collection of people in the nation. Do you not believe this goes on, >Mark? Do you think Frank Thomas needed those three months in AAA in >1990? See? This is essentially what everyone was doing - comparing Lopez to one of the best players in the game. I'm really looking forward to seeing this can't-miss superstar now. As for Thomas, I remember being an advocate of his being brought up in 1990 even though he was only 21 or 22 (can't remember). But who did the Sox have at first? Calderon? Martinez? Kittle? The spot was there. The talent was there. Sure, I say go for it. I am not convinced that Lopez is anywhere near as talented as Thomas was after his AA season in 1989, and I am not convinced that Olson/ Berryhill are nearly as bad as Kittle/Martinez were. BTW, I don't think Thomas was hurt by those three months. >Or Cal Eldred wasn't *really* better than Ricky Bones last year? Well, if we can't compare our guy to one of the best in the game, let's compare our decision to one of the most "Boneshead", right? Cal Eldred was 24 when he came up, with a full season at AAA and a longer minor league career. Frankly, I don't know why he didn't make the club in 1992. Bones is a year younger with a lousy prior history, and just watching him makes me think that I missed a career as a big-league pitcher. No one - I repeat NO ONE - laughed louder than I did at the Sheffield trade. (Though I guess Mieske has a future.) (I take it back. McIlvaine may have laughed louder.) > >You're mostly polite; make defensible, if flawed cases; have wit and >have, in the past, admitted being wrong. That does qualify you on r.s.b. >We'll make an SDCN out of you, yet :-) aw, gee, shucks. thanks guy. except I missed the part where SDCN's admit they're wrong. -- The Beastmaster -- Mark Singer [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Serdar Argic) Subject: Armenian admission to the crime of Turkish Genocide. Reply-To: [email protected] (Serdar Argic) Distribution: world Lines: 34 Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). (Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) p. 19 (first paragraph) "The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same fate befell the Tartar section of Khankandi." p. 130 (third paragraph) "The city was a scene of confusion and terror. During the early days of the war, when the Russian troops invaded Turkey, large numbers of the Turkish population abandoned their homes and fled before the Russian advance." p. 181 (first paragraph) "The Tartar villages were in ruins." Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)

From: [email protected] (David M. Todd) Subject: What video board for my system? Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst Lines: 40 Reply-To: [email protected] NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucs.umass.edu I'd appreciate any advice about a video card for my system: 486-33 DX, 16 mb of ram on a Novell 3.11 network Monitor: NEC 4FGe, capable of 76 Hz vertical refresh rate Major considerations: I expect I will work mostly in windows, but with some DOS applications and I would want decent speed in DOS. I do mostly word processing, database and communications--not much intensive graphics. With a 15" monitor, I expect I will work mostly in 800X600 and 256 colors seems plenty, but I'd like like the image to be sharp, fast, and rock solid. Other considerations: I sometimes run a Unix clone (Coherent) and I understand that some companies (e.g. Diamond?) don't encourage the third-party development of drivers. I might move to OS/2 if I decide I need better speed and reliability than I get with Windows for my database work and multitasking. I don't have a local bus motherboard--I'm not sure how much to invest in an ISA video board (versus getting something less expensive now and upgrading to local bus later). I like buying things from companies that treat their customers well. If you have any advice for me, I'd love to hear it via email or post. Thanks. |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David M. Todd ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |Department of Psychology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003 USA| |Phone: 413/545-0158 ___ <[email protected]> ____ Fax: 413/545-0996|

From: [email protected] (Todd J. Dicker) Subject: Re: Israel's Expansion II Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida Lines: 36 [email protected] ("Andi Beyer") writes: > [email protected] writes: > > [email protected] ("Andi Beyer") writes: > > > > > First of all I never said the Holocaust. I said before the > > > Holocaust. I'm not ignorant of the Holocaust and know more > > > about Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including you). > > > > Uh Oh! The first sign of an argument without merit--the stating of one's > > "qualifications" in an area. If you know something about Nazi Germany, > > show it. If you don't, shut up. Simple as that. > > > > > I don't think the suffering of some Jews during WWII > > > justifies the crimes commited by the Israeli government. Any > > > attempt to call Civil liberterians like myself anti-semetic is > > > not appreciated. > > > > ALL Jews suffered during WWII, not just our beloved who perished or were > > tortured. We ALL suffered. Second, the name-calling was directed against > > YOU, not civil-libertarians in general. Your name-dropping of a fancy > > sounding political term is yet another attempt to "cite qualifications" > > in order to obfuscate your glaring unpreparedness for this argument. Go > > back to the minors, junior. > All humans suffered emotionally, some Jews and many > others suffered physically. It is sad that people like you are > so blinded by emotions that they can't see the facts. Thanks > for calling me names, it only assures me of what kind of > ignorant people I am dealing with. I included your letter since > I thought it demonstrated my point more than anything I could > write. ----- When you're willing to actually support something you say with fact or argument rather than covering up your own inadequacies with feigned offense, let me know. Otherwise, back to your own league, son.

From: [email protected] (Robert Schmitt) Subject: Re: Please Recommend 3D Graphics Library F Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc. Lines: 9 What hardware do plan to run on? Workstation or PC? Cost level? Run-time licensing needs? Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------ Robert A. Schmitt | Applied Derivatives Technology | Lehman Brothers [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Bob Rahe) Subject: Re: Top Ten Comments Overheard in the Secret Service Lounge Organization: Delaware Technical & Community College Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.dtcc.edu In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: > >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Bob Rahe) writes: >In the UK there is a tradition of old retired Colnels who bore the dinner >guests rigid with their descriptions of old campagns. Ed is clearly one >of this type of people who fails to see when a joke is spent. You are hereby authorized not to laugh. By special dispensation of her Hillariness. This offer void where prohibited by law, consumer must pay applicable sales tax..... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Bob Rahe, Delaware Tech&Comm College | AIDS, Drugs, Abortion: - | |Internet: [email protected] | - Don't liberals just kill you?| |CI$: 72406,525 Genie:BOB.RAHE |Save whales; and kill babies? | -------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Ron Baalke) Subject: Magellan Update - 04/23/93 Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory Lines: 34 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov Keywords: Magellan, JPL News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Forwarded from Doug Griffith, Magellan Project Manager MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT April 23, 1993 1. The Magellan spacecraft continues to operate normally, gathering gravity data to plot the density variations of Venus in the mid-latitudes. The solar panel offpoint was returned to zero degrees and spacecraft temperatures dropped 2-3 degrees C. 2. An end-to-end test of the Delayed Aerobraking Data readout process was conducted this week in preparation for the Transition Experiment. There was some difficulty locking up to the data frames, and engineers are presently checking whether the problem was in equipment at the tracking station. 3. Magellan has completed 7277 orbits of Venus and is now 32 days from the end of Cycle 4 and the start of the Transition Experiment. 4. Magellan scientists were participating in the Brown-Vernadsky Microsymposium at Brown University in Providence, RI, this week. This joint meeting of U.S. and Russian Venus researchers has been continuing for many years. 5. A three-day simulation of Transition Experiment aerobraking activities is planned for next week, including Orbit Trim Maneuvers and Starcal (Star calibration) Orbits. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | [email protected] | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | The aweto from New Zealand /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | is part caterpillar and |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | part vegetable.

From: [email protected] (Bill Conner) Subject: Re: Nicknames Nntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu Organization: Okcforum Unix Users Group X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Lines: 36 Maddi Hausmann ([email protected]) wrote: : [email protected] (The One and Only) writes: > : >We could start with those posters who annoy us the most, like Bobby or : >Bill. : Your wish is my command. : Bill "Shit-stirrer" Connor : Bobby "Circular" Mozumder I'm not sure my new nom d'net is exactly appropriate, but it comes very close. Considering what I have to wade through before I make one of my insightful, dead-on-the-money repsonses, I have to agree that something's getting stirred up. I would like to believe my characterization of what I respond to would be kinder though, but if you insist ... I am also surprised to find that I have offended anyone, but in some cases it's unavoidable if I am to say anything at all. For those to whom fairness is important, check out my contributions, haven't I been most generous and patient, a veritable paragon of gentility? Oh, BTW, I don't mind being paired with Bobby; I admire his tenacity. How many of you would do as well in this hostile environment - you think -I'm- offensive ?! read your own posts ... Love and kisses, Bill P.S. My name is Conner, not Connor. No point in humiliating the innocents.

From: [email protected] (Steven Walsh) Subject: Sony Receiver and Ten Disc changer for sale! Keywords: receiver, compact disc, changer Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside Distribution: misc.forsale Lines: 38 For sale -------- STR-AV1070 Audio Receiver ------------------------- 120 Watts per channel Dolby Surround sound with Pro Logic Learning Programmable remote 10 Watts per channel for surround sound Supports Dual Room Link Control (to hear another source in a different room) Index filing of all radio stations 7 band equilizer with real-time analyzer I need to get $450 for this unit or best offer. CDP-C910 Sony ten disc changer ------------------------------ Ten disc cartridge Custom File of your favorite program or title or volume for each disc (Up to 184 disc memory!) Remote control Fixed and Variable volume outputs Optical output 8x Oversampling rate $325 firm. I purchased these items about 6 months ago and need to sell them now to buy a house. Both units are in immaculate shape and are priced to move. Steven Walsh [email protected] (414) 654-4473

From: [email protected] (GRUBB) Subject: Re: IDE vs SCSI Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM Lines: 39 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: dante.nmsu.edu [email protected] (Richard Krehbiel) writes: [Stuff about the connection between IDE and IDA deleated] >8MHz clock, 16 bit width, 5MB/sec. If IDE speed come from IDA WHERE does the 8.3MB/s sighted for IDE come from? SCSI is not complex. It is just the way the industry uses and talks about it. There are THREE key differences in SCSI; the controller chip, the port, and the software. THAT IS IT. Let us look as SCSi in from THIS stand point. SCSI-1: asynchronous and synchronous modes {SOFTWARE SCSI DRIVER ONLY} asynchronous is slower then synchronous mode {only 0-3MB/s vs. 0-5MB/s} synchronous speeds can be reached by most SCSi-1 divices with a rewrite of the software driver {As is the case for the Mac Quadra.} SCSI-2 {8-bit}: THIS is the main source for the confusion. This differs from SCSI-1 ONLY in the controler chip in most machines. In the Mac and some PCs this is called 'fast SCSI-1' because it uses SCSI-1 ports and software drivers AND can produce SCSI-2 SPEEDS through SCSI-1 INSPITE of this even in the slower asynchronous mode. Average speed in asynchronous SCSi-1 mode 4-6MB/s with 8MB/s{See in both Quadras and higher end PCs} Synchronous mode just allows a higher burst rate {10/MB/s} SCSI-2 {16-bit}: TWO versions-Wide/Fast. Wide SCSI-2 requires TWO things over 8-bit SCSI-2: a SCSI-2 software driver and a wide SCSI port on the machine and the external device. Fast SCSI-2 also requires TWO things over 8-bit SCSI-2: SCSI-2 driver software and that the RECIEVING devise support 16-bit fast SCSI-2. Speed of both is the same: 8-12MB/s with 20MB/s burst. SCSI-2 {32-bit}: Also know as Wide AND Fast SCSI. Over 8-bit SCSI-2 this requires: SCSI-2 driver software, wide SCSI-2 port, and that the RECIEVING devices ALSO have a 32-bit mode SCSI-2 chip. As expected this is VERY expencive. Speed: 15-20MB/s with 40MB/s bursts As I said SIMPLE. Seven versions of SCSI seperated by software, the controler chip, and the port. Standarize the SOFTWARE and it DROPS to only FIVE versions of SCSI seperate by only HARDWARE {the chip and the port}

From: [email protected] (Thomas David Kehoe) Subject: Re: How starters work really Keywords: fluorescent bulb starter neon Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 35 >>So when you turn on the power, this causes the bulb to work like a neon, > >Imprecise. This description > > 1. ignores the role of the ballast, > 2. misrepresents the heating effects in the starter. > >The bimetalic strip cools down immediately after the contacts I've been thinking of sending into Mad magazine an idea for a parody, of those books entitled "How Things Work" that engineers buy their sons, which explain how engines, elevators, flourescent lights, etc. work. The parody would be "How Things Really Work." Under "Canned Food", on the left page you'd see the description from "How Things Work": gleaming stainless steel equipment pasteurizing the food to precisely the right temperature, then sealing the can in an oxygen-free environment, etc. On the right page you'd see "How Things Really Work": brain-dead workers sending disgusting food to the gleaming equipment -- rotting vegetables, parts of animals people don't eat, barrels of sugar and chemicals. Under "Elevators" you'd see (on the left) computer geniuses working out algorithms so that X number of people waiting for Y elevators will get to Z floors in the shortest time. On the right, you'd see giggling elevator controllers behind a one-way mirror in the lobby choosing which people appear to be in the biggest hurry and making them wait longest. -- "Why my thoughts are my own, when they are in, but when they are out they are another's." - Susannah Martin, hanged for witchcraft, 1692. Thomas David Kehoe [email protected] (408) 354-5926

From: [email protected] (Aario Sami) Subject: Re: Why is sex only allowed in marriage: Rationality (was: Islamic marriage)? Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Computing Centre Lines: 26 Distribution: sfnet NNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi In <[email protected]> [email protected] (S.N. Mozumder ) writes: >My case is that everything wrong in the world will end if people start >believing in Islam. And that horrors to mankind are all caused by the >lack of belief- Atheism. For the last time, Bobby. Lack of belief in YOUR god does NOT imply atheism. Just because some moslems aren't moral does not mean they don't believe in a god named Allah, although their Allah may not do the things your Allah does. If a moslem says he/she believes that a god exists, he/she is a theist (though maybe not a TRUE follower of islam). >30,000 murder victims a year caused by atheism. Poverty. Massive hate crimes. >Such low respect for the human body. Distrust among people. Everything >wrong, all caused by atheism. >Peace, Jerk. >Bobby Mozumder -- Sami Aario | "Can you see or measure an atom? Yet you can explode [email protected] | one. Sunlight is comprised of many atoms." -------------------' "Your stupid minds! Stupid, stupid!" Eros in "Plan 9 From Outer Space" DISCLAIMER: I don't agree with Eros.

From: [email protected] (Bobby Prisco) Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc. Lines: 30 In article [email protected], [email protected] (Alan Sepinwall) writes: > >And now, the not so pleasant surprises: > > 2)Tartabull. The book on Tartabull was, keep him healthy and > he'll produce. Well, he hasn't done too much so far. Sure. he's > hit a few homers, but those were all solo shots, and he hasn't > gotten any of the "big" RBIs that your cleanup man is supposed > to give you. Then again, he had a slow start last year (once he > got off the DL, that is) and turned into a one-man wrecking crew >See you in the Series! > >-Alan Let's see... April 15th... less than 30 at bats.... and you claim that he hasn't done too much so far! Cut this guy some slack. Danny will produce this year. It's scary to think just how much he'll produce if he were to stay healthy all year. The Yanks have a lot going for them this year: good starting rotation, good bullpen, good defense and a good lineup. Also, I like Buck Showalter. Frank Howard on 1st is also a good move. Everything sounds good so far. If the Yanks stay healthy, they have a good chance at winning the pennant. This is the most fun I've had watching the Yanks since "78! -Bobby

From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Re: NEWS YOU MAY HAVE MISSED, Apr 20 Organization: MCSNet Contributor, Chicago, IL Lines: 65 NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.mcs.com In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (feigenbaum,benjamin) writes: >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Jack Schmidling) writes: >> >> NEWS YOU MAY HAVE MISSED, APR 19, 1993 >> >> Not because you were too busy but because >> Israelists in the US media spiked it. >> >> ................ >> >> >> THOSE INTREPID ISRAELI SOLDIERS >> >> >> Israeli soldiers have sexually taunted Arab women in the occupied Gaza Strip >> during the three-week-long closure that has sealed Palestinians off from the >> Jewish state, Palestinian sources said on Sunday. >> >> The incidents occurred in the town of Khan Younis and involved soldiers of >> the Golani Brigade who have been at the centre of house-to-house raids for >> Palestinian activists during the closure, which was imposed on the strip and >> occupied West Bank. >> If you are as revolted at this as I am, drop Israel's best friend email and >> let him know what you think. >> >> >> [email protected] (via CompuServe) >> [email protected] (via America Online) >> [email protected] (via MCI Mail) >> >> >> Tell 'em ARF sent ya. >> >> .................................. >> >> If you are tired of "learning" about American foreign policy from what is >> effectively, Israeli controlled media, I highly recommend checking out the >> Washington Report. A free sample copy is available by calling the American >> Education Trust at: >> (800) 368 5788 >> >> Tell 'em arf sent you. >> >> js >> >> >> > >I took your advice and ordered a copy of the Washinton Report. I >heartily recommend it to all pro-Israel types for the following >reasons: > >1. It is an excellent absorber of excrement. I use it to line > the bottom of my parakeet's cage. A negative side effect is > that my bird now has a somewhat warped view of the mideast. > >2. It makes a great April Fool's joke, i.e., give it to someone > who knows nothing about the middle east and then say "April > Fools". > Clearly, if a Chutzpa reacts this way, it must be worth reading by more objective types. You are so wrapped up in your hate that you can't even take the time to edit out my long posting. Thanks for the extra milege by reposting it.

From: [email protected] Subject: Re: Doing the work of God??!!) Lines: 59 Desiree Bradley ([email protected]) asked us whether we should think of the Serbs as doing God's work in Bosnia. I've refrained from posting, in hope that someone who is more familiar with the OT than I would answer. But at this point I feel I have to say something. Many things about this posting bother me. I know of not the slightest suggestion in the NT that Christians should use force to propagate the Gospel, and the idea that we should not be concerned about the death of Moslems violates the heart of the Gospel. Christ died to break down these distinctions. In him there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female. If Moslems do not know him, we may preach to them, but we don't kill them. Furthermore, the attack is between states, not religions. There are Christians being attacked as well. One of the towns under attack is one of the few places where Christians and Moslems are living together peacefully. The precedents being suggested are from the OT. There are in fact two different things being alluded to. The first is from the entry into Canaan. For that to be a parallel, we would need for God to have promised this land through a prophet. And we would need the war to be a holy war. There were tight constraints on behavior in those attacks. Any violations were likely to cause the Israelites to be defeated. Rape would not have been tolerated. While the accounts in Joshua emphasize towns that were totally destroyed, note that it was possible for a town to make peace with the Israelites, and that once that was done -- even when deception was involved -- they were expected to honor it. In contrast, there have been many violations of agreement in this incident. I see no evidence that God has granted Bosnia to the Serbs as a promised land, and if he had, their behavior would have disqualified this from being a holy war. The other OT parallel is from later, when Israel was defeated by Assyria and Babylonia. The prophets saw this as a judgement on Israel for her sins. Someone asks whether we shouldn't see this as a judgement on the Bosnians for their sins. This sounds like a replay of the old claim that we shouldn't have doctors or hospitals because illness is God's judgement. Yes, even bad things may be used by God for good. That includes actions of bad people. But that doesn't justify them. If you read the prophets, you find them very clear that in attacking Israel, the Assyrians and Babylonians were acting as *unintentional* agents of God. Their intent was to attack God's people, and they would be judged for it. The fact that they were actually carrying out God's plan didn't excuse their action. Furthermore, we shouldn't conclude from this that all attacks are judgements from God. God explicitly interpreted that case, through his prophets. As far as I know, he did not send any prophets to Bosnia. While I find it hard to see any good in the current fighting, I am sure God will eventually make good come out of bad. But that doesn't justify it, and it won't save the people who are doing it from judgement. I am particularly concerned about the implications of this issue because of current tensions between the West and Moslem-oriented nations. What we do not need is for Moslems to conclude that Christians think it's OK to kill Moslems. The implications for the mid-East, and even relations with American Moslems, could be quite serious.

From: [email protected] (Dave Ihnat) Subject: Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. Summary: But, for all its flaws, the domino theory was right... Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX Distribution: na Lines: 8 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Andrew Molitor) writes: > Not to pick on Mr. May in particular, of course, but isn't this >kind of the domino theory? When one little country falls, its neighbor >will surely follow, and before you know it, we're all mining salt >in Siberia for not turning in our Captain Crunch Secret Decoder Rings. But, for all the wrongness of our attempt to correct it (VietNam, et. al.), the domino theory wasn't disproved at all.

From: [email protected] (Brian Harvey) Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)... Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu Keywords: brick, rock, danger, gun, violent, teenagers [email protected] (Robbie Felix) writes: >How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local >agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless? Hear, hear! Thanks, Robbie. You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds, who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers. On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be. Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do with people of all ages.

From: [email protected] (Dave Schrader) Subject: 400 big block Keywords: 400 big block Article-I.D.: news.C5MF3F.LnB Organization: Engineering Animation, Inc. Lines: 9 As the subject says. It has 70k and my brother-in-law wants $250. Please don't reply to me as I am posting this for him. Here's his numbers : 5pm-10pm 712 676 3669 daytime 712 269 1261 -- Dave Schrader [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Holly KS) Subject: Re: Western Digital HD info needed Nntp-Posting-Host: maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University Lines: 11 My Western Digital also has three sets of pins on the back. I am using it with another hard drive as well and the settings for the jumpers were written right on the circuit board of the WD drive......MA SL ?? I can't remember what the last one was. If you can't find these markings on the circuit board, I'll open my machine and tell you what mine are....... Kevin Holly McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Terry S. Collins) Subject: SMARTCAM VERSION 7 FOR SALE AND 486 33DX Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu SMARTCAM VERSION 7 FOR SALE. Purchased in August 1992. Latest version! Also willing to sell 486 33dx. 124mg hard drive. 17" multi scan monitor. paid $11,000 for software and $2800 for computer. Also includes 1 yr maintanence contract that can be updated every year for apx. $950 per year. Make offer. Call 1 800 940-7874 or 216-941-7400 ask for Terry

From: [email protected] (Marty Helgesen) Subject: Public/Private Revelation (formerly Re: Question about Virgin Mary Organization: City University of New York Lines: 35 Mark Ashley's account of private revelation does not, as some might think, contradict my posting in which I said that the Catholic Church believes that public revelation, on which Catholic doctrine is based, ended with the death of St. John, the last Apostle. In that posting I made sure I used the word "public". Public revelation contains God's truth intended for everyone to believe. The revelation contained in the Bible is a significant subset of public revelation. Private revelation is revelation that God gives to an individual. He may speak directly to the individual, He may send an angel, or He may send the Virgin Mary or some lesser saint. The only person who is required to believe a private revelation is the person to whom it is revealed. Devotional practices may be based on reported private revelations, but doctrines can not. When an alleged private revelation attracts sufficient attention, the Church may investigate it. If the investigation indicates a likelihood that the alleged private revelation is in fact from God, it will be approved. That means that it can be preached in the Church. However, it is still true that no one is required to believe that it came from God. A Catholic is free to deny the authenticity of even the most well attested and strongly approved private revelations, such as those at Fatima and Lourdes. (I suspect that few if any Catholics do reject Fatima and Lourdes, but if any do their rejection of them does not mean they are not orthodox Catholics in good standing.) I do not have at hand a list of the criteria the Church uses in evaluating an alleged private revelation--it's not something I need every day--but I know that one of the primary requirements is that nothing in the alleged private revelation can contradict anything known through public revelation ------- Marty Helgesen Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: [email protected] "What if there were no such thing as a hypothetical situation?"

From: [email protected] (Hap Freiberg) Subject: Re: The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Costly and Dangerous Mistake Nntp-Posting-Host: s3saturn Organization: S-CUBED, A Division of Maxwell Labs; San Diego CA Lines: 26 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Steven Smith) writes: >[email protected] (Dan Gannon) writes: >> THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND DANGEROUS MISTAKE >> >> by Theodore J. O'Keefe >> [Holocaust revisionism] >> >> Theodore J. O'Keefe is an editor with the Institute for Historical >> Review. Educated at Harvard University . . . > >According to the 1990 Harvard Alumni Directory, Mr. O'Keefe failed to >graduate. You may decide for yourselves if he was indeed educated >anywhere. > >Steven Smith Is any education a prerequisite for employment at IHR ? Is it true that IHR really stands for Institution of Hysterical Reviews? Curious minds would like to know... Hap -- **************************************************************************************************** <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Omnia Extares >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ****************************************************************************************************

From: [email protected] (CM51) Subject: Half-page hand scanners? Organization: Lafayette College Lines: 6 Originator: news@lafcol Nntp-Posting-Host: lafibm Is anyone out there using a greyscale handscanner. I'm thinking about buying one. Is the inexpensive Logitech pretty good. I don't need super high quality scans- but want it to be worth the $$$$. Thanks in advance- Mike Charles

From: [email protected] (Joel Alexander Cherney) Subject: Epstein-Barr Syndrome questions Article-I.D.: reed.1993Apr23.034226.2284 Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR Lines: 19 Okay, this is a long shot. My friend Robin has recurring bouts of mononucleosis-type symptoms, very regularly. This has been going on for a number of years. She's seen a number of doctors; six was the last count, I think. Most of them have said either "You have mono" or "You're full of it; there's nothing wrong with you." One has admitted to having no idea what was wrong with her, and one has claimed that it is Epstein-Barr syndrome. Now, what she told me about EBS is that very few doctors even believe that it exists. (Obviously, this has been her experience.) So, what's the story? Is it real? Does the medical profession believe it to be real? Has anyone had success is treating EBS? Or is it just something to live with? Thanks for your assistance. Joel "The Ogre" Cherney [email protected] Of the Horde

From: [email protected] (Mike Whitman) Subject: 49cm Womens bike for sale Organization: Pyramid Technology, Government Systems Lines: 29 I have the following bike for sale: type: Dave Scott Centurion 1989 model size: 47 cm c-c grouppo: Shimano 105 cranks: 165 cm pedals: Shimano 105 P1050 with clips and straps frame: Tange II Double butted steel gearing: front: 52/42 rear: 24-22-19-17-15-13 seat: Terry womens gel seat computer: Avocet 30 extras: double water bottle cages extra rear tire 24" front/700c rear setup My wife is asking for $350 obo. Let me know if you are interested at the address below. Thanks, -- mike -- -- -=--------- Michael C. Whitman ---===------- National System Engineer - Telecom -----=====----- Pyramid Technology Corporation -------=======--- 1921 Gallows Road, Suite 250 ---------=========- Vienna, VA 22182 Phone: (703) 848-2050 Pager: (800)sky-page pin# 45300 [email protected] -or- uunet!pyrdc!mike

From: steve@hcrlgw (Steven Collins) Subject: Sphere from 4 points Organization: Central Research Lab. Hitachi, Ltd. Lines: 24 Nntp-Posting-Host: hcrlgw > >Another method is to first find the center of the circle defined by 2 sets >of 3 points, and intersecting the normals from there. This would also define >the circle center. However, small numerical imprecisions would make the >lines not intersect. Supposedly 3 planes HAVE to intersect in a unique >point if they are not parallel. > Having thought about this, why don't you project the 2 lines onto the 2d plane formed by the lines. Do an intersection calculation in the plane in 2D, where you're guaranteed a unique solution (unless they're parallel which won't happen in this case), and then use parametric distance along the lines from the circle centres to determine the exact point of interest. This bypasses the messy error propogation required to do the calculation in 3d. Hope I haven't put my foot in it again! steve --- -- +---------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Steven Collins | email: [email protected] | | Visiting Computer Graphics Researcher | phone: (0423)-23-1111 | | Hitachi Central Research Lab. Tokyo. | fax: (0423)-27-7742 |

From: [email protected] (Andrew Bravo) Subject: asynch to synch on the mac Nntp-Posting-Host: mondrian.csufresno.edu Organization: California State University, Fresno Lines: 8 does anyone have any good code to drive the serial port in syncronos mode? I really need it BAD TIA [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Lisa Dawes) Subject: gif aerial maps? Reply-To: [email protected] (Lisa Dawes) Organization: Computer Science Dept. - Univ. of Alabama in Huntsville Lines: 5 Is there an ftp site for maps of the US. Preferably aerial photographs? Thanks

From: [email protected] (Gordon Banks) Subject: Re: x-rays Reply-To: [email protected] (Gordon Banks) Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science Lines: 22 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] ( Lin) writes: > > First question - how bad is x-ray? i've heard that it's nothing >compared to the amount of time spent under the sun and i've also heard that it >is very harmful. second question - is there anyway out of this yearly test for >me? The yearly chest x-ray provides a minute amount of radiation. It is a drop in the bucket as far as increased risk is concerned. Who can tell you whether you can get out of it or not? No one here controls that. It may well be a matter of the law, in which case, write your legislator, but don't hold your breath. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and [email protected] | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] (Chris Menzel) Subject: Re: Procomm Plus for windows problems.... Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: kbssun1.tamu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Jeff Meyers ([email protected]) wrote: : In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kent P. Iler) writes: : . : . : >I have a friend who connects to the mainframe and unix machines here : >using [Procomm Plus for Windows], but the screen seems to have a problem : >keeping up with the : >modem....he has a 14,400 modem on a 486 50 Mhz machine. : Tell him he probably needs to upgrade to a faster video card! My 9600 baud : modem was one of the reasons I sought out the Diamond Speedstar 24X. I get : about 7 million WinMarks on my 386-25 and it just about keeps up with the : modem speed (using procomm plus for windows, too). He should get over : 10 million on his machine with the same card. Anything 10+ should yield : acceptable speed... I'm using PC Plus at home on my trusty old NEC 386 SX/20 with a 14,400 baud modem with no problems at all. I am, however, running only straight 16 color VGA. -- Christopher Menzel Internet -> [email protected] Philosophy, Texas A&M University Phone ----> (409) 845-8764 College Station, TX 77843-4237 Fax ------> (409) 845-045

From: [email protected] (Graham Toal) Subject: Re: Secret algorithm [Re: Clipper Chip and crypto key-escrow] Organization: /etc/organization Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: dorothy.ibmpcug.co.uk Keywords: encryption, wiretap, clipper, key-escrow, Mykotronx In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (David Sternlight) writes: > >Though some may argue about the nose of the camel, it's worth noting that >the government proposal is limited to scrambled telephony. If it is only >used for that purpose, and does not extend to electronic mail or file >encryption, then it IS an improvement over the current mass-produced >standard civilian technology which, with a few exceptions, is limited to >easy-to-break inverters. Try reading between the lines David - there are *strong* hints in there that they're angling for NREN next, and the only conceivable meaning of applying this particular technology to a computer network is that they intend it to be used in exclusion to any other means of encryption. Don't be lulled by the wedge because its end looks so thin. Graham

From: [email protected] (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: <Political Atheists? Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu [email protected] (Robert Beauchaine) writes: >To show that the examples I and others >have provided are *not* counter examples of your supposed inherent >moral hypothesis, you have to successfully argue that >domestication removes or alters this morality. I think that domestication will change behavior to a large degree. Domesticated animals exhibit behaviors not found in the wild. I don't think that they can be viewed as good representatives of the wild animal kingdom, since they have been bred for thousands of years to produce certain behaviors, etc. keith

From: [email protected] (Cheryl Marks) Subject: Re: Omar Vizquel - GRAND SALAMI? Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA Lines: 20 Do you think Omar's grand slam is the result of his new fan club? Last week a banner appeared in the Kingdome: OLDER WOMEN FOR OMAR Cheryl ***************************************************************************** * * Cheryl Marks * HP-UX Address: [email protected] HP Desk: CHERYL MARKS/HPA100 * Telenet: 1-335-2193 Ma Bell: (206) 335-2193 * USPS: Cheryl Marks * MS 330 * 8600 Soper Hill Road * Everett, WA 98205-1298 * * "Too much of a good thing is wonderful." Mae West * *****************************************************************************

From: [email protected] (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) Subject: Re: Don't knock the Glock (was Re: My Gun is like my Am Ex Card) Organization: Western Washington University Distribution: usa Lines: 20 >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]. com >>Seriously. There is no difference in the safeties betweena Glock and any DA >>revolver. Intellectually, think of the Glock as a very high cap revolver. >>Ignoring stove pipes, misfeeds and all the other bonus exercises that >>autoloaders give you, that is. On a DA revolver, you get another try on a misfire. On a pistol where the trigger does not cock the hammer, like a Jennings, or an Astra M400, or a Glock, a misfire requires the slide be cycled to get the gun to function. Rather than a high capacity revolver, think of a Glock as an Astra M400 with no manual safety and a heavier trigger pull. Jim Del Vecchio

From: [email protected] (Rainer Hochreiter) Subject: X-server multi screen Organization: ELIN Energeanwendung Ges.m.b.H Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: sun3.eeam.elin.co.at X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Hi Xperts, some simple questions for you: I've seen a lot of different terms, which seem to mean the same thing. Who can give an exact definition what these terms mean: -) multi-screen -) multi-headed -) multi-display -) X-Server zaphod mode Is there a limit how many screens/displays a single server can handle (in an articel a read something about an upper limit of 12) ? How is the capability called, if I want to move the cursor from one screen/display to another. Any hints welcome. Thanks, rainer. -- Rainer Hochreiter | Telephone: +43 (1) 89100 / 3961 ELIN-Energieanwendung GesmbH | Telefax : +43 (1) 89100 / 3387 Penzingerstr. 76 | A-1141 Wien, Austria/Europe | E-mail : [email protected]

From: [email protected] (Mark Ira Kaufman) Subject: Re: Israeli Terrorism Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu As someone who reads Israeli newpapaers every day, I can state with absolute certainty, that anybody who relies on western media to get a picture of what is happening in Israel is not getting an accurate picture. There is tremendous bias in those stories that do get reported. And the stories that NEVER get mentioned create a completely false picture of the mideast.

From: [email protected] (Michael Covington) Subject: Re: Divine providence vs. Murphy's Law Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens Lines: 19 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Tim Rolfe) writes: >Romans 8:28 (RSV) We know that in everything God works for good with those >who love him, who are called according to his purpose. > >Murphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will. > >We are all quite familiar with the amplifications and commentary on >Murphy's Law. But how do we harmonize that with Romans 8:28? For that >matter, how appropriate is humor contradicted by Scripture? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've always taken Murphy's Law to be an exhortation to prudence, and an observation about the behavior of complex systems, rather than a denial of divine benevolence. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs [email protected] : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><

From: [email protected] (Dr Zippy) Subject: Re: Sexual Proposition = Sexual Harassment? Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh Organization: Dr Zippys psycho surgery Lines: 13 In article <930316.144130.lynn@pcgeo23> [email protected] (Malcolm Lynn) writes: > >this is a tesrt >s Of your spelling, eh? Dr Zippy. -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Dr Zippy, proof that "Dum blonde" isn't a women only title | +------------------------------------------------------------+ [email protected]

From: [email protected] (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) Subject: Re: Lois Chevrolet? Summary: Louis Chevrolet Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.4.54.110 Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: Paging and Wireless Data Group Lines: 13 A little bit off of the subject but here goes yes he is one in the same (i.e. Chevrolet Motor Div) also his brother Gaston raced at Indy and was the winner in 1920. I have also seen the name Arthur Chevrolet in the early teens (1911 and on) I assume he is related Keith Nuetzman, [email protected] Motorola Inc. Paging and Wireless Data Group Boynton Beach, Fl see ya at Indy 500 and "400" ...yes!!!

From: [email protected] (Bruce Steinke) Subject: Re: Program manager ** two questions Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.187.90.30 Reply-To: [email protected] (Bruce Steinke) Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT Lines: 20 In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gerry Swetsky) writes: |> |> (1) Is it possible to change the icons in the program groups? I'd like |> to give them some individuality. |> |> (2) Can you set up a short-cut key to return to the Program Manager? |> I know <CTL><ESC>, <ESC> will do it, but I'd rather set it up so I |> can avoid the task list and get back to the P/M with <ALT><F1>. I use PlugIn, an enhancement to Program Manager. It allows (1) for sure, I don't know on (2). Anyway, give it a try. I like it a lot and registered it right away It can be found at ftp.cica.indiana.edu [129.79.20.84] in /pub/pc/win3/util/plugin13.zip -Bruce -- Bruce F. Steinke | "Never know when you're going to [email protected] | need a good piece of rope." Software Technical Support Engineer | Sam Gamgee Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp. | <My mail, My Opinions>

From: [email protected] (Ivan Bach) Subject: Re: Adobe Photo Shop type software for Unix/X/Motif platforms? Nntp-Posting-Host: ivan.asd.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 9 We have been shipping for over one year the Adobe Display PostScript (DPS) on Silicon Graphics workstations, file servers, and supercomputers. The Adobe Illustrator 3.5 for Silicon Graphics machines was released last February. Adobe and SGI announced last October that Photoshop will be available on SGI systems in 1993. Initial release will support 24-bit color graphics. Ivan Bach, [email protected] Disclaimer: I do not speak for my employer.

From: [email protected] (Speedy Mercer) Subject: Re: Living Organization: Louisiana Tech University Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: bhm116e-spc.engr.latech.edu In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Don Fearn) writes: >In article <[email protected]>, C70A000 <[email protected]> writes:>|> >|> ... I sprained my right ankle once and kept riding, ... >When I broke my right leg in two places ... I had knee surgery while I was in the Navy back in 77. The doctors put me in a cast from ass-to-ankle. My only method of transportaion was a DOHC 450 Honda at the time. I found that by sliding back on the seat I could use my heel (did I mention it was my left leg?) to operate the shift. I would hook the end of the lever with my heel and lift my entire leg for up- shifts and just drop my leg on the lever for the down-shifts. Forget nutral, took WAY too much finesse for the leg! The crutches were bungee- corded to the right side of the bike with the "top" resting on the passenger peg and the right turnsignal sticking through the "hole" in the crutches. Every other day when I rode the 10 miles to Physical Therapy (tourture sessions) the doc would give me hell about riding a bike much less riding in my condition. Didn't stop me tho! B-P BTW. This is the same bike I assembled in my second floor barracks room and rode down the stairs when it was completed! --------======= I am not paid to have an opinion! =======-------- Dr. Speed Suzuki GS850G DoD #8177

From: [email protected] (Jim Meritt - System Admin) Subject: Keep Firm the foundations! Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

From: [email protected] (Lucio de Re) Subject: A fundamental contradiction (was: A visit from JWs) Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: MegaByte Digital Telecommunications Lines: 35 [email protected] writes: >"Will" is "self-determination". In other words, God created conscious >beings who have the ability to choose between moral choices independently >of God. All "will", therefore, is "free will". The above is probably not the most representative paragraph, but I thought I'd hop on, anyway... What strikes me as self-contradicting in the fable of Lucifer's fall - which, by the way, I seem to recall to be more speculation than based on biblical text, but my ex RCism may be showing - is that, as Benedikt pointed out, Lucifer had perfect nature, yet he had the free will to "choose" evil. But where did that choice come from? We know from Genesis that Eve was offered an opportunity to sin by a tempter which many assume was Satan, but how did Lucifer discover, invent, create, call the action what you will, something that God had not given origin to? Also, where in the Bible is there mention of Lucifer's free will? We make a big fuss about mankind having free will, but it strikes me as being an after-the-fact rationalisation, and in fact, like salvation, not one that all Christians believe in identically. At least in my mind, salvation and free will are very tightly coupled, but then my theology was Roman Catholic... Still, how do theologian explain Lucifer's fall? If Lucifer had perfect nature (did man?) how could he fall? How could he execute an act that (a) contradicted his nature and (b) in effect cause evil to exist for the first time? -- Lucio de Re ([email protected]) - tab stops at four.

From: [email protected] ( John Ata) Subject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE??? Reply-To: <[email protected]> Organization: HFSI Lines: 49 In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes: >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Timothy J. Luoma) writes: >> In article <[email protected]> >> >> "Suppose you were part of the `Christian consipracy' which was going to >> tell people that Christ had risen. Never mind the stoning, the being >> burned alive, the possible crucifixion ... let's just talk about a >> scourging. The whip that would be used would have broken pottery, metal, >No one was ever flogged, beaten, burned, fed to the lions, or killed in any >other way because of a belief in the resurrection - sorry to disappoint you. I think you are vastly oversimplifying things. We know that early Christians suffered totures because of their witness to Christ. For example: ACT 5:40 His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. ACT 5:41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. It appears that the Jewish rulers of that time had a particular aversion to even hearing Jesus's name. ACT 5:28 "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood." Finally, the first apostle's death, James of Zebedee was certainly not by Rome's hand any more than the first martyr Stephen. >The idea of resurrection is one which can be found in a host of different >forms in the religions of antiquity. The problem was not the resurrection >which was a mediorce issue for a tiny fragment of the Jewish population The problem was that if one believed in the Resurrection, then one must believe in Jesus as truly being the Son of God and what He stood for and preached during His ministry on Earth. That would have been extremely difficult for some people, especially those that had plotted to kill Him. >randy -- John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet: [email protected] HFS, Inc. VA20 | UUCP: uunet!hfsi!ata 7900 Westpark Drive MS:601 | Voice: (703) 827-6810 McLean, VA 22102 | FAX: (703) 827-3729