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krishnamurti_discussions

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I would rather you were wrong. Right? So the brain, says, "I want security, and my security is in a belief, in a conclusion, and don't disturb it."
Right? So having found what it thinks... imagines to be a belief and having found security and therefore becoming lazy, it doesn't want to be disturbed. Watch your own mind, sir, not mine - I have been through all this mess.
Right? It seems to me, sir, that when one observes something, say a mountain in all its glory, one receives an impression. Can you tell us what an impression is, it doesn't necessarily leave an image.
Of course, sir - an impression. I have an impression about the mountains, I have an impression about you - I don't know you, I have an impression, a vague feeling, you have impressed me, you've left a mark on me, pleasant or unpleasant. Next time I meet you, that impression is strengthened, and I say, "By Jove, he's a nice chap", or not a nice chap, and from that, the third time, the image is concluded.
Now please look at it - the brain would rather live in an abstraction, in which it finds security, and though it is very disturbing, that is the only security it has. So the brain needs security. Right?
I don't know if you are following. And therefore the image becomes the most important thing. Right?
I have formed a conclusion that there is no life after death, or there is life after death, it gives me tremendous comfort, and don't talk any more about it. I live in that belief. It gives me tremendous security, whether that belief is neurotic, real, illusory, doesn't matter.
Right? So I've found out - listen to it - I have found out an image about you, about anything, gives security to the mind, to the brain, and therefore refuses to shake it. And that's what's the matter with all of you.
Right? Must we not see if there is such a thing as security, or it is just another concept? I'm coming to that, sir, I'm coming to that.
So as I said, the brain needs security, otherwise you can't function properly. You understand, sir? Like a child given complete security, it's happy, it learns quicker.
And when the family is broken up, when the father and mother are quarrelling, the poor child feels lost, gets neurotic, and becomes violent, begins to shoot, kill people. You've seen all this. So do you find security in an image?
Go into it, be aware of it, don't talk good image, bad image, people who have been to concentration camps and all the rest of it - do you have images, conclusions, in which you take security. Have you? Temporary.
Temporary security. Or if you are separated from your beloved, you are separated, you then have an image. Yes - when you are separated from your beloved.
That is, when you love somebody in America and you're here, and you feel separated, and therefore you have an image about him and temporarily that image gives you comfort. Right? But my beloved over in India might be chasing another girl!
For god's sake! Sir the whole of science is based on images, and that's natural. Sir, keep it simple, it's complex enough.
Do you have an image in which the brain, your mind, your feelings have established vested interest in them and therefore they won't break away, you won't drop them. And therefore your mind is lazy. Then you say to yourself, "How am I to stop image-making?'
Right? 'How am I not to conclude at any time but always a mind that is completely free, so that it meets everything anew - the tree, you, everything anew, fresh, free?" I have seen how the machinery builds the image.
Have you seen it? Have you really seen it, that is, to observe? Have you observed, have you an insight into the image-making?
If you have an insight into it, you won't make any image at all, because the insight is the security. For god's sake. Do you get it?
You have understood that? No, sir, don't shake your head. Is it your memory makes you aware of the image?
No. No. Is it your memory that makes you aware of the image?
Not at all - I've been through this. Need I go through all that again? I've an impression about you, from the first time I meet you - impression, pleasant or unpleasant.
That imprint may be very, very light, like a light footprint on the sands, but the next time I meet you that footprint has taken a little more shape. And the third time it's solid. Now, that impression has become strong by my contact with you, because if I had no impression I have to look at you each time anew, have to watch you, have to listen to you, have to feel you anew each time - which is much more troublesome, rather than say, "I've an image about you, you are this" - finished.
And having established that image, it gives me security and I don't want to learn anything more about you. Right? So I see from that, I observe from that, the mind, the brain, having established a belief, finds in that belief security, whether it's real or unreal, and acts according to that belief, and therefore acts neurotically.
I'm a Muslim - that's just an idea, and I take security in that. And because it is divisive it is neurotic action. Right?
Do you feel all this? Could we say that the energy to meet each new experience is our security? No.
Each new experience is our security - no, then you are... there is no security in that at all. No, the energy to meet the new experience is the security. The energy to meet that experience, in that energy there is security.
That is the security. That is security. That is, to meet each experience anew demands energy, that energy is security.
What do you say? (In Italian) I think it is very clear what we have said - what you have said up to now. But I ask you if these images that prevent us from seeing are our security and this is the condition of laziness, then what will make us leave it?
Nothing, nothing, nothing. He says - oh lord! - he says, I understand what you have said very clearly.
It is my laziness. And what is wrong? If I like my laziness - right?
- why should I change? I say, "Don't." Right.
(Inaudible) The same thing. I don't go on... Madam, you understand what that question was? He said to me - I understand what you have said very clearly, but I like to be lazy, and most people are.
(In Italian) All the people are in this condition of security. But for me, they don't need to look for something that they don't know, when this condition of security is so comfortable. That is, when the security in illusion is convenient, happy, why leave it?
Wait - don't leave it, stay with it, stew in it, boil in it. Wait, sir, wait - so you boil in your security, and the other has his security, and when you meet you have battle. Right?
The Communist finds in Marxism complete security, and the capitalist in his, and when they meet there is war. If you like it, keep it. (In Italian) But you are saying it's a false security.
Ecco! Therefore I say that is no security at all. Security lies in the insight to see where there is no security.
You have understood? Is there not the danger of the word? The word also becomes illusory.
Sir, have you understood this so far? Understood, that means you have insight into this, therefore you have dropped your laziness and your image. Have you?
If you have not, why not, what's wrong? You've spent money, energy, sitting in a hot tent, and you leave it today with your images back. What's the point of it?
Why do you go on when you see for yourself the stupidity, the lack of security in the things in which you have put your faith, your security in? Don't you, sir - the Stock Market, if you have any stocks, when you see the thing is dangerous, don't you sell? Buy something which is much more secure?
Why don't you do the same here - not that this is a Stock Market. Sir, if I drop my beliefs, my images now that I've seen them, there is nothing there. And I'm scared of having nothing.
I see if I drop my images, my conclusions, my laziness, I've nothing left and I'm frightened. Why do you drop them? Because somebody says drop them?
Or you drop them because you have insight, you have an understanding in that, therefore your understanding is your security. Therefore there is no fear. You understand, sir?
Once you have the key of observation, which is insight, which is the capacity to look, understand intelligently, then that intelligence is the security. And you're lazy, that's why. So there is... observation means non-abstraction.
Right sir? There is only observation, not the observer who is an abstraction. You have understood it?
The observer is an abstraction, is an idea, is a conclusion, is the past. And through the eyes of the past you are looking at the trees, the mountain, your wife, your children and all the rest of it. And it's part of your laziness.
Now to see that, to have an insight into it, to be aware of this extraordinary structure of illusion, which is an abstraction, that observation in itself is the total security. You've got it? So can you leave this tent this morning happily, free of all the images, and therefore only have this light of insight?
Have you? (French) Madam - you've understood? I'm not going to translate, I'm sorry.
She says - I must translate because you don't... She says, the mountains and the trees, the rivers and the green meadows are different from man, and the collective man, the mass, the mass of people. Now what is my relationship with the mass? What is my relationship with this total seething mankind, with all its miseries, and all the rest of it?
Is it laziness that I don't find my relationship with it? Is it my indifference? Or in asking that very question I have activated my energy to find out?
Right? Don't look at me, sir - what do you say? You understand?
The lady says, it's easy to talk about the hills, the trees and the mountains and the flowers, but when it comes to human relationship, whether with one or with many, life becomes very difficult. It is difficult, as we said, because we have no relationship with anything - we have relationship in abstraction. Right?
And therefore we live in abstractions - the mass, the 'me', the conclusion, the image - we live in abstraction. Do you realise what it means? That we don't live at all but live in images, in conclusions which have no value.
Sir, how can we get rid of all that? I've shown it to you, sir. What shall I do?
Look, sir, let me make it very simple - keep it very simple. When you see a physical danger you react, don't you. Why?
Please listen quietly. When you see danger you react instantly, because you are conditioned to the danger - right? - whether it's a wild animal, a bus or somebody trying to hit you, you react instantly.
Right? That is, you react according to your conditioning, instantly. Now you are conditioned psychologically, mentally, intellectually and in the cell, you are conditioned to live in speculations, in concepts, in formulas - you're conditioned to that, and you don't see the danger of it.
Right? If you saw the danger of it as you see the danger of an animal, you'd drop it instantly. So you say, "I don't see the danger of it, therefore I can't drop it.
How will you help me to see the danger of it?" Right? Are you doing the work or am I doing the work?
Do you understand, sir? I am doing the work, you are just listening. You're not working.
You say, "Now tell me how to break down these images." That is, you are not exercising your energy to find out. That means you're being lazy, and to be told.
Then you can say, 'Well I agree or disagree, it's not convenient, it is so... I must keep some, I must - ' you play with it. But if you say, "Look, I want to find out," because you see the truth of it - I can't live with images because they are destructive, they're dangerous.
And you, to see that you must have energy, you must work, it isn't a matter to be told by another. I've told you, but you don't put your vitality into it. So the mind, the brain, which is old, conditioned, and always living in the past, or projecting in the future from the past, cannot face something that is living, because it means you have to apply, you have to move, you have to watch.
And so the mind says, "Please, I am lazy, don't, I'd rather live with my images, face the dangers of war, dangers of everything, but rather, please, I like to be comfortable." That's all you want. But, sir, to find truth you have to live tremendously - you follow?
- without a single security. That means, only security in intelligence that comes through insight. Then you'll be a first-class technician, because you don't project your image into doing a technical job.
You understand? Then you have a marvellous relationship with each other. (French) Madame, listen.
You have understood this. Some author has written a book in which the author says that man must live alone now, not depend on Jesus, on Marx or this or that. Right?
(French) This is your god, heaven, hell, all the rest of the books. Now isn't it very strange that you read a book and learn from that? No?
Somebody tells you, a first-class biologist, or a first-class physicist, or a first-class psychologist, that you must throw away all these cultural inhibitions and fears, and stand alone. Right? And you read it, and you say, "By Jove, I must stand alone."
Suppose there were no books at all, suppose there was nobody to tell you, what would you do? Which indicates you will accept a first-class biologist because he is a first-class, and therefore you don't live it yourself - you're all second-hand people. Now what would happen if there was no Marx, no Jesus, no psychologist, no god, you'd be left, wouldn't you?
You have to solve this thing yourself. And that's what we have been trying to do, during these eight or nine discussions, to force you into a corner so that you look at things. And if there is no speaker sitting on the platform, then you'll have to face it yourself - and we are too lazy to face it ourselves, we'd rather be told - and then make that into a problem.
So I hope this morning, after listening for an hour and a half, whatever time it is, that you walk out leaving all your images behind, and look at the tree as though you were looking at it for the first time. Then you will have tears in your eyes because of the beauty of the tree. Then you will see the mountains and the hills and the shadows as you have never seen them before.
Then you will see your wife, your friend, your husband for the first time, and the beauty of that first time. And then you will see yourself without any image and you realise that you are nothing. And in that there is vast beauty, being absolutely nothing.
Then you will know what truth is. We have two more discussions, this morning and tomorrow morning, two discussions altogether. So what should we talk over this morning?
Sir, I spend one third of my life, approximately a third of my life, sleeping every twenty four hour period. And as I have got older I have found that my ability to sleep with harmony with myself seems to be less and less so that the quality of the rest that I get doesn't really prepare me too well for my day. Would you like to discuss what is the function of sleep?
Yes. Could we talk over the problems of existence? Problems of existence - that's what we have been talking about for the last ten days, haven't we?
(laughter) Sir, how can we gather enough energy for meditation? How to gather enough energy to meditate. Do you want to discuss meditation?
Be quite sure, please, because it is a very serious subject, and don't kind of say, 'Well, that's a nice subject to talk about'. If you are really interested in it, we have not only to go into the question of energy, harmony, and what is the function of sleep - all these are involved in meditation, not just sitting cross-legged and going off into some fantasy. So do you really want to discuss this?
Yes. Can we not we talk about education in the same way? Could we not deal with education in the same way?
Together. Whom are you educating? The children or the educator?
Both. Wait a minute, please - both. Is the educator capable really of educating the child?
No. You say no? She agrees - no.
Which is, the educator has to understand the whole problem of existence, hasn't he? - not in departments, not classified as technology, science and so on, so he has to understand, if he is to be a really good, efficient, worthwhile educator, he has to understand the whole problem of existence. Now during the last three weeks, we have been talking about existence - we have not perhaps mentioned the word education, but the educator is being educated here in this tent, if he would listen.
Shall we go on with the other - and which is part of our education. Right? Sir, have we not been talking about meditation the last three weeks?
Yes, sir, yes sir - he says, haven't we been talking about meditation for the last three weeks. (Inaudible) The capacity to understand existence, does it depend on individual, biological structure, or on his tendency, character and idiosyncrasy, or does the understanding of existence... Is it common to all human beings. Yes, that's it.
Is it common to all human beings - I should have thought it was common to all beings. I may have my peculiar tendency, my peculiar idiosyncrasy and character, but surely understanding must go beyond all that. So it is common, it's not restricted according to one's character, body, and so on.
Can we talk about death. Death - you're quite young, aren't you? (laughter) She wants to discuss death.
And to talk about health and disease, accident. Health, disease, accident and all that kind of thing. Now how can we put all this together - health, disease, death, (laughs) education, thought killing feeling, sleep, meditation, and death?
How can we put all this together? Curiosity. Curiosity.
Put it all in. (laughter) Isn't it all in meditation? What sir?
Isn't it all a meditation - yes sir. For me, the house is still burning and I feel it burning and I feel that there are many people who have clear eyes in the world. But the people in power can't bring about a change.
How can we bring about a change in the people in power? Yes, I understand, madam. There are some people who see clearly, but that is very limited and how to affect, how to bring about a change of heart in the people who are in power.
Right? What is the meaning of freedom? What is the meaning of freedom?
Lots of it now. Sorrow and education. Comprehension of education?
Sorrow and education. For the ending of the image is it sufficient to have love? Is the ending of the image, is it sufficient to have love?
All right, sir. Is meditation an effort? Yes, sir, meditation and good old effort.
Throw it all in, sir, let's all get together. (laughter) Sir, it seems to me that we have every variety of motivation to understanding, except the very simple one of curiosity, the desire to find out. Why does the motivation prevent us from understanding these questions, and why do we have so little curiosity, desire to find out?
Look, sir, all these things are involved, aren't they - curiosity, death, education and sorrow, sleep, the whole mechanism of thought, feeling, and so on - all these have a central issue, haven't they? They have a central point from which we can start. Would you say?
Can we do that? Now what is the central point, the root which has the trunk and many branches and leaves. If we could understand this whole process of living, which is the root, then we'll deal or have the capacity to deal with all the branches, with all the leaves, with the dying leaves and the new leaves, and the spring leaf and old leaf.