Datasets:
eliwill
/
krishnamurti_discussions

Dataset card Data Studio Files Community
text
stringlengths
12
1.33k
Now what do you think is the central issue? Love. Don't jump, and say, love.
It may be love, but consider it for a few minutes. I want to find out if there is a source, a fountain, waters that once drunk will bring about such intelligence that will reply, answer, solve, all the problems. You understand my question?
I want to find out if my mind can live both at the level of knowledge and also at the same time, move with knowledge the unknown, so that both of them are living together, moving together, in harmony. You have understood my question? Right sir?
Now if I can find that out, then I'll have answered all your questions - you'll have answered for yourself all the questions. How to deal with the known, known being the accumulated knowledge of centuries, and also at the same time, enter or allow the unknown to move also, so that the two together function, in harmony. Would that answer all your questions?
Yes. Don't say, 'Yes' too quickly and then bring up later on, what about physical existence. I've a problem, one has a problem, which is, sleep, death, education, strong emotions, passion, controlled by thought and thought gradually getting stronger, and destroying all one's feelings, sensitivities, intuition, curiosity - all these are the problems of life.
If I have a mind that's very clear, not corrupted, not polluted, not distorted, then such a mind will answer all these questions. Right? Right sir?
Now what is that mind - don't say it is this or it is that, because the description is not the described, the word is not the thing. So I want to find out, what is that mind that whatever problem it faces it resolves it and goes on, it doesn't become a burden, it doesn't become something to worry about endlessly. Now can we together this morning spend a little time in trying to find out what is the quality of that mind - mind being, the brain, the feeling - the whole physical organism, the total thing, not the body, the emotion, the intellect, the brain, divided, but the total entity.
Right? Now how do you set about to find out? You understand?
Existence implies jobs, food, clothes, and shelter; existence implies all this travail, this battle, this struggle, the pain, the anxiety, the guilt and the sorrow. Existence implies relationship between two human beings; existence implies the hours that we spend in sleep; existence implies love, which is translated as jealousy, hate - all that, and sleep, death, and meditation - right? - all that is involved.
I want to find out for myself, not having read a book, and I don't want to read any books about all this - I want to find out what that mind is, I'm very curious. Right? Shall we discuss that?
Please don't be casual about it. Yes. I don't want your encouragement, you understand?
- I do this in my walk. Now how shall I find out, a mind so clear, a mind that has no conflict - not an ideal - actually has no conflict, a mind that can be completely quiet, a mind that when it sleeps, makes itself new, that lives in complete absence of the 'me' , which is the essence of conflict. Right?
Now how am I to go about it, because I'm curious, I've got enough energy, I am not frightened, whatever the consequences of my enquiry is, I don't depend on anybody, for money, food - it doesn't interest me. If you give me food I'll take it, if you don't, it's all right - you follow? - I'm not interested.
My whole concern is this. Sir, I'm not curious - I'm scared, I want to attain it. He's not curious but he wants to attain it.
(Noise of train passing) There is the train. I don't want to attain it. How can my stupid little mind attain that - it can't, can it?
because I think in terms of attainment, in terms of success, in terms of getting something. That's my motive. But I say, 'No, I've no motive, I want to see what such a mind is like'.
You see the difference? If there is such a thing. I'm going to find out, sir.
That's just it, I don't know if it exists, because I have no guru, thank god, I have no teacher, I don't accept any description or whatever another says about that - I brush all that aside. They may be in illusion or they are racketeers, so I'm not interested in them. I just want to find out, if there is such a mind.
Now how am I to begin, how am I to start? Go on, sir, please, help me. Where am I to start?
At the unknown end, which I can imagine and therefore not real? Or where am I to begin to discover this mind that can respond without contradiction - you understand? - without effort, without denial, sacrifice, forcing?
Where am I to begin? Begin by asking why all these problems have arisen? Would you begin by asking why all these problems come into being.
Look, sir, we've talked for ten days or three weeks, we've been through all that. I start enquiring - right? - if there is such a mind, and to find out I must start not knowing.
Right? I don't know a thing about it, do you? Oh, come on, sir!
You may have read what people have said, you may have heard what people have said, I discard all that. All that I know is, I don't know. Are you also in that position, that you don't know if such a mind exists, and if it is at all possible to come upon it.
Right? You don't know - don't pretend, that's all. Bene signiore?
Bene. I don't know. A mind that says, 'I don't know', therefore it is free to enquire.
Right? Right sir? There is freedom, that is the first step and the last step.
Take it slowly. You understand? When I say, I don't know, I do not depend on anybody, on any circumstances, on any environment, either of the past or of the future.
When I say, I don't know, I really completely mean it - I don't know. Are you in that position? Or you have your hidden masters, your hidden guides, your hidden memories, (laughs) - you follow?
- and pretend that you don't know. I think that I really don't know whether I know or not. Please, please, this is too serious, don't play with words.
Can you honestly say to yourself, I don't know whether there is such a mind, and therefore I'm free to enquire. Therefore enquiry demands that you be free first. You understand?
Free first, not at the end - free from your Zen, free from your meditations, your systems, your gods, your myths, your gurus, your concepts, your... - you follow? - out, out of the window all that. You're neither a Christian nor a Buddhist nor a follower of Jesus - out.
Then you're free to enquire. That means the mind is not frightened, frightened to be alone. Right?
Now I'm going to enquire, because I don't know what's going to happen. I'm not looking for a result. Right?
I don't want to find it or not find it, because my insistence is that mind must be free to enquire, and therefore never a moment of distortion. There is distortion when there is a motive. I've no motive, I don't care.
You understand? I don't care, if that mind exists, doesn't exist, my enquiry is motiveless, endless, and has no authority whatsoever, past or present, therefore it's free to enquire. You understand?
Come on, sir, will you move with me? Now what am I enquiring into? Please listen to this carefully.
What am I enquiring into? I'm free to enquire - enquire what? Sleep?
What sir? You're all very silent. Free to look?
Free to look - look at what? The tree, the mountain, the green, lovely, sparkling meadows? It's automatic to... Don't speculate.
I'm not speculating. When there is something you see immediately that creates its own space, and the mind has to be empty all the time. When you say, 'I don't know' the mind is empty.
When it says, 'I'm enquiring,' it says, 'What am I enquiring into?' Follow it sir. Am I enquiring into death, which is part of living?
Am I enquiring into sleep, which is part of living? Job, fear, what am I enquiring into? The fact that I'm bored...
Yes. ...and I'm asking myself whether it is possible to live differently, and I really don't know. You don't know, then why don't you start from there?
I don't know how to end conflict. Right? I live in conflict, contradiction, all the rest of it - we won't go into all the details of it - I live in conflict, I'm enquiring into that because I don't know what's going to happen.
Wait a bit madam. You understand sir? . I'm enquiring into conflict, with a mind that says I really don't know if I can ever go beyond it.
Right? But you start with a mind which says, 'I really don't know. I live in conflict but I don't know how to solve it.'
Wait sir, don't... go step by step into it. But you start with not knowing, and therefore you start with freedom. If you enquire further into an idea... You're going to find out, sir - don't verbalise it yet.
(Inaudible) No, madam. Look here. We had all these questions, hadn't we?
life is death, sleep, conflict, suffering, education, thought opposing feeling, feeling opposing thought. We've all these questions. I said, where am I to start, in the resolution of all this - in the understanding of all this - where am I to start?
I say I really don't know whether I should begin here or there, therefore not knowing, I meet them all. You get it? Because I don't know, therefore I have the capacity to look at them all.
Have you got it sir? This is not mystifying - how can I go on with all of you? You know, this is really a marvellous subject if you go into it - with two or three people we could go a great deal, but with so many contradictory problems and all the rest of it, it becomes extraordinarily difficult.
I don't know what meditation is, I don't know what death is, I don't know if life can be lived without strife, without any kind of strife. But I am free to enquire. Right?
Now I'm going to enquire, being free, what is the significance of sleep? I'm taking that. The sleep which most of us have is a disturbance.
Right? No? Isn't it a disturbance, with dreams, with pictures, nightmares, all kinds of things are going on, aren't they?
There is the other kind of sleep, too. Do you know it? Yes.
What is that? When I did not know anything about dreams and nightmares and all that. So, when the brain gets tired of dreams it becomes quiet, is that it?
Yes, probably - yes I suppose. You're enquiring, you can't suppose. He has to suppose because you can't ask him while he's asleep, he's awake now and he has to answer you.
That's what I mean, sir. Look, sir, we're enquiring into the question of sleep. Right?
I'm asking myself, during the day, my whole day is a disturbed existence. Right? I'm disturbed all day long, I've got a job where I'm insulted, I accept great confusion during the daytime.
And at night the same movement is going on, it isn't a break, which is translated into dreams. You asked if there is another kind of sleep. I don't know - I'm going to find out.
Right? I see that during the day my life is disturbed, my brain is in conflict - right? - I'm pushed around, I'm dominated or I dominate - it's a constant threat, constant pain, constant pleasures and so on, so on.
It is the same movement carried on when I go to sleep, that is when I dream. So I say to myself, 'I'm enquiring, can I during the day bring order in my life? Because when I sleep dreams are a means of bringing about order.'
Right? Right sir? Have you noticed, just before you go to sleep sometimes the brain says, 'What kind of day have I had?
It's time to bring about order before going to sleep.' Have you noticed it? Oh, no, don't tell me - come on, sirs!
Right? Some of you have, therefore before you sleep, the brain tries to put order. If you don't put order, then while you sleep the brain is trying to create order, which are dreams, interpretations, you know, all the rest of it.
Is that clear? I'm enquiring, you understand? I don't want to know what happens - I see this fact.
Right? Now can I bring order during the day in my life - if not I'll dream, if not my brain will have no rest? And it must have rest, otherwise it's like a machinery that's working for seventy years - you understand?
- it wears itself out. So it must have complete rest. Scientists say that dreams are necessary.
Scientists also say that there are states between dreams. Now we can enquire as to whether the mind is so completely tired it has given up trying to put order, really it's too exhausted. That's right.
And I think what you are asking is there is a third kind of sleep. Yes. I put my life in order during the day.
I have - not you. Because to me it's tremendously important this, not to have conflict. So I have the order and this order can be brought about only when I see how chaotic the disorder is.
Through the understanding and examination, enquiry into disorder, order is brought about. Order isn't a pattern, which I follow regularly, a blueprint which I accept blindly and go on. Order is something that comes out of the understanding of the insight of disorder.
Therefore my life during the day is orderly. Then at night, what takes place? Sleep then is without dreams.
Am I telling you and therefore you're accepting it, or is it a fact to you? You are telling us because the very fact that... Therefore leave it.
That's why we can only talk about the day, the waking state. That's all, that's all, that's all - so my enquiry goes much further than yours. Because I think I have brought order in my life, and I know if there is disorder what to do; and I say the brain then, when it sleeps, is absolutely rested.
And what happens during rest, and further, that's my enquiry, it's not your enquiry, therefore I won't go into it. I know it's exciting for you to listen to what happens but that's of no value. Some scientists have made experiments where they keep somebody awake.
I know, sir, I know all that. And then they conclude from that that you have to dream. Of course that only shows you are disorderly during the day and then you...
So my question is, sir, my question have you put order during the waking hours of your life? Obviously not because I dream. Therefore obviously not, therefore why don't you put order?
I don't know how. Wait, I'm telling you. But there's so much to cope with.
Isn't there disorder to cope with? No, there isn't. The lady says there is so much to cope with - there isn't.
What you're coping with is disorder. Well there's this disorder to cope with. Isn't there disorder to cope with?
No, disorder has many forms but it is disorder - sexual disorder, mental disorder, disorder in our relationship with each other, disorder in my body, disorder, you follow? - psychological, physiological, psychosomatic, whatever it is - disorder. Why don't I bring order into all that?
Sir, because I don't know how and I want you to tell me. I'll show it to you, sir. Are you aware of this disorder?
Yes. Yes, now watch it, sir, watch it. You are aware of this disorder - what do you do about it?
(Inaudible) Please look at your own disorder - not that gentleman's disorder. His disorder is your disorder. He says, 'I'm in disorder, I don't know what to do with it.'
Why not? What is disorder - contradiction, isn't it? No?
Basically, disharmony, you understand? - disorder - I think one thing, do another, say one thing, act in a different way, I feel and I mustn't feel, I want peace, I'm violent, which are all contradictions. Therefore my life, which is disorderly, is the result of contradiction.
Listen to it carefully. When a neurotic person believes in something and holds on to that - you follow? - for that person there is no disorder, because he says, 'This is so.
I believe tremendously in Jesus or Buddha and that's finished - I've no disorder. Because that to me is the real, everything else is unreal'. You follow?
So if there is to be order you have to examine disorder in your life, which is brought about by contradiction, which is not seeing actually 'what is', wanting to change 'what is' into something else. That is disorder. Come on, sir.
As I walk along I am aware of a centre which is the essence of disorder. And I want to change it, I still want to get rid of it and find order. Yes sir, please sir, do listen to what I am saying - you are aware of your disorder, disorder basically implies contradiction, which is, not facing 'what is', not looking and moving away from 'what is'.
When you move away from 'what is', that is disorder. When you try to go beyond it, that is disorder. When you try to suppress it, that is disorder.
But when you can look at 'what is', you've all the energy to go beyond it. That is order. Have you got it - not my verbal explanation, actually, have you put your teeth into it?
Sir, what about compromises? It is sometimes necessary... What about compromising - sometimes it is necessary. All right, compromise.
Why do you make a problem of it - I have to compromise in putting on trousers, I have to compromise when I have to put on leather shoes. Why do you make a problem of compromise - because one has a principle that you mustn't compromise? Well...
Wait sir, wait - follow it up. One can compromise about little things, but is there compromise when you see the fact that war is caused by nationality, one of the causes. Right?
Is there any compromise there? Yes. What?
Yes, the consequence if you won't fight is that they take your passport and nationality. Then let them take my passport, but fortunately they've given me one. And if they say you can't travel, all right, I don't travel, I stay where I am.
But I might starve. If I starve, I starve, all right but, you follow? - gosh, you people are so... you are so frightened!