eliwill/krishnamurti_discussions · Datasets at Hugging Face

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So I see thought has bred this world, made the world what it is, and I am part of that world, and that world is me. And thought is responsible. So I am concerned now with the investigation of thought.
I see thought is necessary otherwise I can't speak, thought is necessary to drive a car, thought is necessary to function in a factory or in a business, thought is necessary in the employment of the knowledge which I have acquired. I see in that area thought is necessary. But I see thought is totally unnecessary in relationship, with its image.
Therefore is it possible to live with thought functioning in a certain area, and thought not functioning in relationship, because thought is not love? Right? Oh, come on, I must move.
I see all that, so I have found something. I have found a deep meaning. I have found a way of living where thought functions normally, objectively, logically, sanely, and there is no psychological movement at all - the psychological movement as the 'me', which is put together by thought, by words, by experience, by knowledge.
So the psychological entity is not. So I see that is the way to live. I am not telling you how to live.
That is the way to live, for knowledge to function efficiently, and it cannot function efficiently when the psychological element is projected in the field of knowledge. And there will be a battle always as long as there is the 'me', the self. The self is put together by thought - the word, the remembrance, the attachment, all that is the basis of thought.
So I say yes, I have discovered that, that is the way to live, not as an idea, but as an actuality. Right? Not for you.
(Laughs) If you live that way, if you have enquired, gone into it profoundly, then it is yours, then we have relationship, then it is real fun, great delight to discuss, talk over the real thing. In the same way I want to enquire what is death. I don't know what it means.
I know what people have said about it. My son has died, my wife, husband, boy, girl, I know that. I have shed tears, felt loneliness, the misery, the appalling sense of wastage of life.
Right? So I am going to find out what death means. Can my mind enquire into something that it doesn't know?
You've understood? I don't know what death means. I have seen it.
I have seen death touch every life from the poorest to the most famous, from the most indulgent, stupid, superficial to the man who thinks he is very deep, death has touched everybody, everything. Right? So I am going to find out, my mind what is death?
I have seen death, I have lived with it, I have watched it, I have seen my son, my brother, die with a disease, or killed by a bomb. I have lived in the same room, I know what it means for another to die. Right?
I am not frightened. That is the fundamental thing in enquiry. Right?
Are you coming with me? No. Of course you can't.
So I am not frightened. And having no fear I have no beliefs, whether the entity lives or doesn't live after dying. This is a tremendous...
I am going into it. The 'me', who is so afraid of death, the 'me' is the known. The 'me' is the known when it is attached to the furniture, to the house, to the family, to the name, to the country, the 'me' is the known.
And that 'me' is frightened when it enquires into death because it says I may come to an end. I don't mind my body coming to an end, but that inward sense of the 'me'. And one has given lots of names to it, the soul, the atman, and so on and so on, so on - all put together by thought.
Right? So the mind is not frightened because it has seen that there is nothing permanent. Right?
I see all this intellectually, I see it but fear exists. The gentleman say, I see all this intellectually, I see it but fear exists - that's it. I see it but fear goes on.
Therefore what does that mean? You don't see it! Obviously, sir.
You don't say I see the precipice - you follow? - and I will jump. You don't say when you see a danger, 'I see danger' and go on with the danger, do you?
Come on sir!. (Inaudible) Sir, may I say something to cover your point? When you hear a statement you translate it into an idea, which everybody does, and then there is a division between the idea and 'what is'.
Right? Now if you could listen without the formulation of an idea, or a conclusion, then there is only 'what is'. You understand, sir?
Can you listen without forming a conclusion? It is very difficult. That is real active enquiry.
So I see, the mind sees the 'me' is not permanent, it has just been put together by transient thought. The 'me' is just a series of words, memories, which have no substance, reality. Wait, sir, sorry.
So, the mind now is not frightened, it is going to enquire what death means. What does death mean? Dying to the known?
And if I don't die to the known what happens? You understand, sir, my question? What happens when the mind doesn't die to the known?
The known is the 'me', with all the nature and the structure of the 'me', with all the misery - all that. If it doesn't die to that known what happens? It goes on, doesn't it?
Like a stream - please listen to this - like a stream that is going on. In that stream all human beings are caught. Right?
Are you following this? But they never said there must be an ending of the known. They accept it.
They can't entirely get out of it - they try to put one foot out of it, another foot in it, but they are all caught in that stream of so-called life, which continues because the mind has never pulled itself out of it. So - please listen to it - when there are the seances, the mediums, when there are manifestations of your husband, wife, children, and all the rest of it, it is from that stream. Are you swallowing all this?
You see what I am saying and you are so easily accepting. As long as you are caught in - and you are caught in that trap, in that stream, you may die, but that stream is the world and the world is you, and when you get in touch with your elder brother when he is dead, it is there, from that stream. Therefore a man who is free of that stream, he can never be caught by a medium.
You understand? Yes, sir, think it out, go into it, you will see the truth of it. Now what does it mean to die?
Because I have seen death. I know I will die - disease, old age, and all the trouble of old age - all that - dying. The organism, misused for so many years through drugs, drink, indulgence, the misery of disease, pain, and ending up in being drugged, kept alive for a few years longer.
What has happened? And that is what you call death. I say to myself, that is such an absurd way of dying.
Right? I know the organism will die, keep it as healthy as possible, you know, all the rest of it. I know it is going to die.
Is that what the mind is frightened about? What is it frightened about? Frightened about losing the identity with the furniture.
Right? The furniture is the wife, the book, the photograph, the money, all that, which is the embodiment of furniture. Are you following all this?
So the mind what am I attached to the furniture for? You understand sir? Furniture including the whole of it.
I am using that one word to convey the whole of the urge to possess, attachment, domination, all that is included in that word, which is a very good word, 'furniture'. I do not know if you have not friends who are terribly attached to a piece of wood - beautifully shaped, handed down from parent to parent, an old antique. You are that.
Or the beautiful car which you have just bought. So why does the mind identify itself with that? And therefore being identified with that, that is the mind.
Right? Is that what the mind is frightened about, losing the furniture? Enquire, sir, enquire.
Why does the mind desire identification with something - with my wife, with my girl, with my boy, with my house, with all the things that I have remembered, the pleasures, the pains - why is the mind so identified with it, and therefore the mind has become that - why? Don't throw up your hands, we are going to enquire, find out. Is it because it has to be occupied with something?
You are following? Occupied with the house, with sex, with knowledge, it doesn't matter what it is, it has got to be occupied, because if it is not occupied what takes place? You are following all this?
I am occupied with that furniture, I keep it polished, I look after it, it is mine, nobody must touch it, you know all the rest of it, it is occupied with that - you may be occupied with sex, or with cooking, or with god, with the State, they are all the same, occupation of every kind is the same. There is no noble or ignoble occupation. We are just discussing occupation.
Ignoble occupation may produce one result, and noble occupation may produce another result. We are not talking of the results, we are talking about why the mind needs to be occupied. You see when it is occupied it feels it is alive, it is moving, it is working, it has a sense of reality.
Right? I'm talking... It's a dialogue on my part, with myself!
And I say, why is it occupied? Because it says, when I am not occupied, what happens? It doesn't exist.
Wait. Wait, sir. You are saying the wrong thing.
He says it doesn't exist anymore. You are saying the wrong thing. You haven't explored it, you have already come to a conclusion.
Why is it occupied? It sees it is occupied because if it is not occupied what happens? You see the answer?
It deteriorates, because you are occupied your mind is deteriorating - that's it. You understand? There is nothing fresh in that occupation, therefore your minds, because they are occupied so everlastingly in life, they are deteriorating, becoming dull, soft, not active, vital.
Non-occupation is... I don't understand, sir. Sir, I didn't say non-occupation.
I said to you - please listen, sir. He put it that way and you are taking him up. It is a wrong answer.
I said the mind is occupied. I know that. I see every mind around me is occupied.
I must be aware, I must think of god, I have become a Catholic, I must begin from morning till night to do this, that and the other thing, I am a Hindu I must - you follow? I am a socialist. I am occupied - earning a livelihood and so on.
Now why is the mind occupied? What happens to the mind that is not occupied? Have you found that out?
It sees. Have you found out for yourself what happens to a mind that is not occupied? It is empty.
How do you know? I know. You know it?
It is empty when it is not occupied. It is empty when it is not occupied. All right.
What is wrong with it? (Inaudible) Oh, you people haven't... you just throw out words! Sir, what happens to the mind that is not occupied?
Look sir, you are not answering my question because you are dealing with ideas, not with reality, not with actuality, which says, 'I have explored, I've gone into this thing, what happens to a mind that is occupied, what happens to a life that is occupied with pain, pleasure, with success, with boredom, with loneliness, with problems.' If it is not occupied with problems, is it an empty life? If it is not occupied with pain, pleasure, with your gods, and all the rest of it, is it a deteriorating life?
No. Don't say no, you don't know about it. You are just indulging in words.
Therefore when the mind is not occupied is that an empty mind, a dull mind, a deteriorating mind? Find out! Test it for yourself.
Put it to the say, look, I am occupied with what - money, or sex, or pleasure. If you are not occupied what happens with money? Then it picks up another occupation, doesn't it?
And it says no, I want to find out never to be occupied, what takes place? (Inaudible) Oh, no! It is filled with love.
It's filled with love. Who fills it? You know, sir, or lady, somebody wrote to me a letter the other day saying that I talk about 'sir', I am only concerned with man, and therefore I am not a feminist.
And I must be a little odd because I am always referring to man. So crazy the world is, isn't it! Look sir, or lady, (laughter) my life, your life, one's life, has been occupied with the kitchen, with the furniture, with the husband, with sex, with children, earning a livelihood, pain, pleasure, anxiety, dread, disappointment, hurt.
That's occupation. You have never said to yourself, all right, I know it is occupied, what happens if I am not occupied about anything? (Inaudible) He says, I don't know because I have never thought about it.
Why haven't you? So you are occupied and you die being occupied. And that is all you call living, therefore dying and living is occupation.
You never say, all right, I know I am occupied, I will find out what it means not to be occupied. You are occupied because occupation is one of the activities of the mind which is the 'me'. Right?
I am occupied with my god, I am occupied with my State, with my - all the rest of it. That occupation is a form of identification of myself with that, and that gives me the feeling that I am alive, the 'me' is fully active. Now I see and I have looked at it, and I have seen what a terrible thing occupation is.
Right? I have seen it, not just verbalised it. Therefore what happens to a mind that is not occupied?
(Inaudible) (Repeating) I don't know what happens to a mind that is not occupied. It's a lovely day, isn't it? Perhaps something new.
Perhaps something beautiful. New. Something new.
Just words. Sir, I am hungry and you give me words to eat. So I don't want your words, I want food.
You are not hungry, therefore you are filling your hunger with words. I want to find out what happens to a mind that is not occupied, ever, not just one occupation, no occupation. (Inaudible) I give it up.
I want to share this with you, because it is only in sharing together that we discover. But you don't share. You are already full of ideas therefore you have nothing to share.
If you are somewhat enquiring, somewhat empty, somewhat searching, then you would share. But you are not, unfortunately, therefore you are throwing out words, words, words. So I ask myself what is a mind that is occupied, and what happens to it if it is not?
If you cut off occupation what is there left? I did not say cut off occupation. You see how you have translated it?
It's so hopeless... Sir, I very carefully went into all this. I am not going to go over it again for your inattendance. When my mind is aware there is a feeling.
(Pause) What happens to a mind that has enquired into life - the living - the living which has been so occupied from morning till night, and at night dreaming and the interpretation of those dreams. It has been occupied endlessly. There is never a moment of non-occupation.
And it is also occupied with death - what will happen, and therefore there too there is never a moment of non-occupation. So the enquiry what happens when the mind is not occupied at all? What takes place?
Is it emptiness? That emptiness, is it degenerating? Is it emptiness at all?
Or there is only observation and nothing else. And that observation is not the occupation of the observer occupied with the observed observing. What is there?
If there is only observation then what takes place? What is there to observe? The trees, you, me, what is there to observe?
Is there anything to observe? Or only there is absolute nothing. And that is the fear of everybody, to be absolutely nothing.
And because you want to be everything you are occupied with everything. And all your problems arise from that - the total of not being, nothing. Now if you have gone into it with the speaker, and shared it, then you will see that life and love and death are the same thing.
And the understanding of it is the understanding of that extraordinary thing called life, the living - not this living but living entirely differently, living without occupation, therefore no conflict. And a mind that is not in conflict is free from death. That's enough for this morning, I have talked, as usual.
This is the last dialogue and I suppose you have had enough of it too. So what shall we talk over together this morning? Can we talk about you are the world and the world is you?
Can we talk about the world is you and you are the world. Responsibility in relationship. What is the responsibility in relationship.
(Inaudible) Meditation? You are talking about relationship, sir? (Inaudible) Relationship to nature?
I can't hear you properly, sir. (Inaudible) I thought we had been through all that. I thought we went into all this not only during these discussions, or dialogues, but also in all the seven talks that we have had here - didn't we?
(Inaudible) Look, sir, this is the last dialogue, at least for this year. But I go on with the dialogues all over the world, you won't. Now what shall we discuss this morning which we have not gone into thoroughly and deeply?
(Inaudible) But I went into it the other day. (Inaudible) (Repeating) Would you go into the question of what is occupation. What do you mean by occupation, the totality of it.
But I thought we all went into this. Can we keep silent for some time? Can we keep silent for some time.
(Inaudible) (Repeating) Can we go into this question of observation, awareness, and meditation. And could we go into it much more deeply and widely. (Inaudible) We like to end up with creation.
What is a serious mind? What is a serious mind. (Inaudible) Danger of putting questions from an intellectual level.
Now you've got it all now. (Inaudible) You want to understand... he wants to understand why when this world is so rotten, that science and art, yoga and all that bilge is taught in the schools in which K's name is mentioned. What is it really you want to discuss this morning?

So I see thought has bred this world, made the world what it is, and I am part of that world, and that world is me. And thought is responsible. So I am concerned now with the investigation of thought.

I see thought is necessary otherwise I can't speak, thought is necessary to drive a car, thought is necessary to function in a factory or in a business, thought is necessary in the employment of the knowledge which I have acquired. I see in that area thought is necessary. But I see thought is totally unnecessary in relationship, with its image.

Therefore is it possible to live with thought functioning in a certain area, and thought not functioning in relationship, because thought is not love? Right? Oh, come on, I must move.

I see all that, so I have found something. I have found a deep meaning. I have found a way of living where thought functions normally, objectively, logically, sanely, and there is no psychological movement at all - the psychological movement as the 'me', which is put together by thought, by words, by experience, by knowledge.

So the psychological entity is not. So I see that is the way to live. I am not telling you how to live.

That is the way to live, for knowledge to function efficiently, and it cannot function efficiently when the psychological element is projected in the field of knowledge. And there will be a battle always as long as there is the 'me', the self. The self is put together by thought - the word, the remembrance, the attachment, all that is the basis of thought.

So I say yes, I have discovered that, that is the way to live, not as an idea, but as an actuality. Right? Not for you.

(Laughs) If you live that way, if you have enquired, gone into it profoundly, then it is yours, then we have relationship, then it is real fun, great delight to discuss, talk over the real thing. In the same way I want to enquire what is death. I don't know what it means.

I know what people have said about it. My son has died, my wife, husband, boy, girl, I know that. I have shed tears, felt loneliness, the misery, the appalling sense of wastage of life.

Right? So I am going to find out what death means. Can my mind enquire into something that it doesn't know?

You've understood? I don't know what death means. I have seen it.

I have seen death touch every life from the poorest to the most famous, from the most indulgent, stupid, superficial to the man who thinks he is very deep, death has touched everybody, everything. Right? So I am going to find out, my mind what is death?

I have seen death, I have lived with it, I have watched it, I have seen my son, my brother, die with a disease, or killed by a bomb. I have lived in the same room, I know what it means for another to die. Right?

I am not frightened. That is the fundamental thing in enquiry. Right?

Are you coming with me? No. Of course you can't.

So I am not frightened. And having no fear I have no beliefs, whether the entity lives or doesn't live after dying. This is a tremendous...

I am going into it. The 'me', who is so afraid of death, the 'me' is the known. The 'me' is the known when it is attached to the furniture, to the house, to the family, to the name, to the country, the 'me' is the known.

And that 'me' is frightened when it enquires into death because it says I may come to an end. I don't mind my body coming to an end, but that inward sense of the 'me'. And one has given lots of names to it, the soul, the atman, and so on and so on, so on - all put together by thought.

Right? So the mind is not frightened because it has seen that there is nothing permanent. Right?

I see all this intellectually, I see it but fear exists. The gentleman say, I see all this intellectually, I see it but fear exists - that's it. I see it but fear goes on.

Therefore what does that mean? You don't see it! Obviously, sir.

You don't say I see the precipice - you follow? - and I will jump. You don't say when you see a danger, 'I see danger' and go on with the danger, do you?

Come on sir!. (Inaudible) Sir, may I say something to cover your point? When you hear a statement you translate it into an idea, which everybody does, and then there is a division between the idea and 'what is'.

Right? Now if you could listen without the formulation of an idea, or a conclusion, then there is only 'what is'. You understand, sir?

Can you listen without forming a conclusion? It is very difficult. That is real active enquiry.

So I see, the mind sees the 'me' is not permanent, it has just been put together by transient thought. The 'me' is just a series of words, memories, which have no substance, reality. Wait, sir, sorry.

So, the mind now is not frightened, it is going to enquire what death means. What does death mean? Dying to the known?

And if I don't die to the known what happens? You understand, sir, my question? What happens when the mind doesn't die to the known?

The known is the 'me', with all the nature and the structure of the 'me', with all the misery - all that. If it doesn't die to that known what happens? It goes on, doesn't it?

Like a stream - please listen to this - like a stream that is going on. In that stream all human beings are caught. Right?

Are you following this? But they never said there must be an ending of the known. They accept it.

They can't entirely get out of it - they try to put one foot out of it, another foot in it, but they are all caught in that stream of so-called life, which continues because the mind has never pulled itself out of it. So - please listen to it - when there are the seances, the mediums, when there are manifestations of your husband, wife, children, and all the rest of it, it is from that stream. Are you swallowing all this?

You see what I am saying and you are so easily accepting. As long as you are caught in - and you are caught in that trap, in that stream, you may die, but that stream is the world and the world is you, and when you get in touch with your elder brother when he is dead, it is there, from that stream. Therefore a man who is free of that stream, he can never be caught by a medium.

You understand? Yes, sir, think it out, go into it, you will see the truth of it. Now what does it mean to die?

Because I have seen death. I know I will die - disease, old age, and all the trouble of old age - all that - dying. The organism, misused for so many years through drugs, drink, indulgence, the misery of disease, pain, and ending up in being drugged, kept alive for a few years longer.

What has happened? And that is what you call death. I say to myself, that is such an absurd way of dying.

Right? I know the organism will die, keep it as healthy as possible, you know, all the rest of it. I know it is going to die.

Is that what the mind is frightened about? What is it frightened about? Frightened about losing the identity with the furniture.

Right? The furniture is the wife, the book, the photograph, the money, all that, which is the embodiment of furniture. Are you following all this?

So the mind what am I attached to the furniture for? You understand sir? Furniture including the whole of it.

I am using that one word to convey the whole of the urge to possess, attachment, domination, all that is included in that word, which is a very good word, 'furniture'. I do not know if you have not friends who are terribly attached to a piece of wood - beautifully shaped, handed down from parent to parent, an old antique. You are that.

Or the beautiful car which you have just bought. So why does the mind identify itself with that? And therefore being identified with that, that is the mind.

Right? Is that what the mind is frightened about, losing the furniture? Enquire, sir, enquire.

Why does the mind desire identification with something - with my wife, with my girl, with my boy, with my house, with all the things that I have remembered, the pleasures, the pains - why is the mind so identified with it, and therefore the mind has become that - why? Don't throw up your hands, we are going to enquire, find out. Is it because it has to be occupied with something?

You are following? Occupied with the house, with sex, with knowledge, it doesn't matter what it is, it has got to be occupied, because if it is not occupied what takes place? You are following all this?

I am occupied with that furniture, I keep it polished, I look after it, it is mine, nobody must touch it, you know all the rest of it, it is occupied with that - you may be occupied with sex, or with cooking, or with god, with the State, they are all the same, occupation of every kind is the same. There is no noble or ignoble occupation. We are just discussing occupation.

Ignoble occupation may produce one result, and noble occupation may produce another result. We are not talking of the results, we are talking about why the mind needs to be occupied. You see when it is occupied it feels it is alive, it is moving, it is working, it has a sense of reality.

Right? I'm talking... It's a dialogue on my part, with myself!

And I say, why is it occupied? Because it says, when I am not occupied, what happens? It doesn't exist.

Wait. Wait, sir. You are saying the wrong thing.

He says it doesn't exist anymore. You are saying the wrong thing. You haven't explored it, you have already come to a conclusion.

Why is it occupied? It sees it is occupied because if it is not occupied what happens? You see the answer?

It deteriorates, because you are occupied your mind is deteriorating - that's it. You understand? There is nothing fresh in that occupation, therefore your minds, because they are occupied so everlastingly in life, they are deteriorating, becoming dull, soft, not active, vital.

Non-occupation is... I don't understand, sir. Sir, I didn't say non-occupation.

I said to you - please listen, sir. He put it that way and you are taking him up. It is a wrong answer.

I said the mind is occupied. I know that. I see every mind around me is occupied.

I must be aware, I must think of god, I have become a Catholic, I must begin from morning till night to do this, that and the other thing, I am a Hindu I must - you follow? I am a socialist. I am occupied - earning a livelihood and so on.

Now why is the mind occupied? What happens to the mind that is not occupied? Have you found that out?

It sees. Have you found out for yourself what happens to a mind that is not occupied? It is empty.

How do you know? I know. You know it?

It is empty when it is not occupied. It is empty when it is not occupied. All right.

What is wrong with it? (Inaudible) Oh, you people haven't... you just throw out words! Sir, what happens to the mind that is not occupied?

Look sir, you are not answering my question because you are dealing with ideas, not with reality, not with actuality, which says, 'I have explored, I've gone into this thing, what happens to a mind that is occupied, what happens to a life that is occupied with pain, pleasure, with success, with boredom, with loneliness, with problems.' If it is not occupied with problems, is it an empty life? If it is not occupied with pain, pleasure, with your gods, and all the rest of it, is it a deteriorating life?

No. Don't say no, you don't know about it. You are just indulging in words.

Therefore when the mind is not occupied is that an empty mind, a dull mind, a deteriorating mind? Find out! Test it for yourself.

Put it to the say, look, I am occupied with what - money, or sex, or pleasure. If you are not occupied what happens with money? Then it picks up another occupation, doesn't it?

And it says no, I want to find out never to be occupied, what takes place? (Inaudible) Oh, no! It is filled with love.

It's filled with love. Who fills it? You know, sir, or lady, somebody wrote to me a letter the other day saying that I talk about 'sir', I am only concerned with man, and therefore I am not a feminist.

And I must be a little odd because I am always referring to man. So crazy the world is, isn't it! Look sir, or lady, (laughter) my life, your life, one's life, has been occupied with the kitchen, with the furniture, with the husband, with sex, with children, earning a livelihood, pain, pleasure, anxiety, dread, disappointment, hurt.

That's occupation. You have never said to yourself, all right, I know it is occupied, what happens if I am not occupied about anything? (Inaudible) He says, I don't know because I have never thought about it.

Why haven't you? So you are occupied and you die being occupied. And that is all you call living, therefore dying and living is occupation.

You never say, all right, I know I am occupied, I will find out what it means not to be occupied. You are occupied because occupation is one of the activities of the mind which is the 'me'. Right?

I am occupied with my god, I am occupied with my State, with my - all the rest of it. That occupation is a form of identification of myself with that, and that gives me the feeling that I am alive, the 'me' is fully active. Now I see and I have looked at it, and I have seen what a terrible thing occupation is.

Right? I have seen it, not just verbalised it. Therefore what happens to a mind that is not occupied?

(Inaudible) (Repeating) I don't know what happens to a mind that is not occupied. It's a lovely day, isn't it? Perhaps something new.

Perhaps something beautiful. New. Something new.

Just words. Sir, I am hungry and you give me words to eat. So I don't want your words, I want food.

You are not hungry, therefore you are filling your hunger with words. I want to find out what happens to a mind that is not occupied, ever, not just one occupation, no occupation. (Inaudible) I give it up.

I want to share this with you, because it is only in sharing together that we discover. But you don't share. You are already full of ideas therefore you have nothing to share.

If you are somewhat enquiring, somewhat empty, somewhat searching, then you would share. But you are not, unfortunately, therefore you are throwing out words, words, words. So I ask myself what is a mind that is occupied, and what happens to it if it is not?

If you cut off occupation what is there left? I did not say cut off occupation. You see how you have translated it?

It's so hopeless... Sir, I very carefully went into all this. I am not going to go over it again for your inattendance. When my mind is aware there is a feeling.

(Pause) What happens to a mind that has enquired into life - the living - the living which has been so occupied from morning till night, and at night dreaming and the interpretation of those dreams. It has been occupied endlessly. There is never a moment of non-occupation.

And it is also occupied with death - what will happen, and therefore there too there is never a moment of non-occupation. So the enquiry what happens when the mind is not occupied at all? What takes place?

Is it emptiness? That emptiness, is it degenerating? Is it emptiness at all?

Or there is only observation and nothing else. And that observation is not the occupation of the observer occupied with the observed observing. What is there?

If there is only observation then what takes place? What is there to observe? The trees, you, me, what is there to observe?

Is there anything to observe? Or only there is absolute nothing. And that is the fear of everybody, to be absolutely nothing.

And because you want to be everything you are occupied with everything. And all your problems arise from that - the total of not being, nothing. Now if you have gone into it with the speaker, and shared it, then you will see that life and love and death are the same thing.

And the understanding of it is the understanding of that extraordinary thing called life, the living - not this living but living entirely differently, living without occupation, therefore no conflict. And a mind that is not in conflict is free from death. That's enough for this morning, I have talked, as usual.

This is the last dialogue and I suppose you have had enough of it too. So what shall we talk over together this morning? Can we talk about you are the world and the world is you?

Can we talk about the world is you and you are the world. Responsibility in relationship. What is the responsibility in relationship.

(Inaudible) Meditation? You are talking about relationship, sir? (Inaudible) Relationship to nature?

I can't hear you properly, sir. (Inaudible) I thought we had been through all that. I thought we went into all this not only during these discussions, or dialogues, but also in all the seven talks that we have had here - didn't we?

(Inaudible) Look, sir, this is the last dialogue, at least for this year. But I go on with the dialogues all over the world, you won't. Now what shall we discuss this morning which we have not gone into thoroughly and deeply?

(Inaudible) But I went into it the other day. (Inaudible) (Repeating) Would you go into the question of what is occupation. What do you mean by occupation, the totality of it.

But I thought we all went into this. Can we keep silent for some time? Can we keep silent for some time.

(Inaudible) (Repeating) Can we go into this question of observation, awareness, and meditation. And could we go into it much more deeply and widely. (Inaudible) We like to end up with creation.

What is a serious mind? What is a serious mind. (Inaudible) Danger of putting questions from an intellectual level.

Now you've got it all now. (Inaudible) You want to understand... he wants to understand why when this world is so rotten, that science and art, yoga and all that bilge is taught in the schools in which K's name is mentioned. What is it really you want to discuss this morning?