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One can have experiences multiplying by the thousand, but they are all based on a conditioning of the mind. So the mind says, I am going to watch, I am going to observe very closely and never be deceived, therefore tremendous honesty. You understand?
Right. Then, is there anything sacred? People have said there is, and there is nothing, just live for this life and make a good thing of it, if you can't bear up with it, or identify yourself with the State, with the leader, with the big brother, you know, all that.
The mind is also very alert to all that. Right? Then it says, now I want to find out because without coming upon that life has very little meaning, because life then becomes a transient, meaningless thing - being born, suffering, joy, passing pleasures, anxieties, you know all that, and death.
And without finding out what is really sacred, if there is such a thing, life has no meaning whatsoever. And in the finding of it, that may the unifying factor of all life. You understand?
Unifying factor of all life - the life of nature, the life of animals - you follow? - all living things, that may be the one unifying factor which will bring human beings and nature and all of us together. You understand?
So my enquiry must be total - you understand? It must be total, that is, my enquiry into behaviour, order, virtue, disorder, relationship with the world and with my wife, husband, girl, boy. It must be an enquiry that includes the whole of my living, not just part of it.
So I have enquired into my relationship with you who are my wife, my child, my son, my brother, my husband, and that enquiry led to relationship with me and the world, and therefore enquiry has revealed that the world is me, and me is the world - the reality of it, not just the verbal statement of it, because the description is not the described. So I have enquired into behaviour because that is very important, how the mind behaves in every direction, in the world of science, in the world of business, in the world of labour, in the world of writing a book - conduct, whether it is self-centred conduct, self-interest, or conduct based on identification with something greater. This activity of the self brings about disorder.
So I have seen it, understood it, and my enquiry now is, having enquired into all this, my enquiry says, is there anything sacred? And also I have enquired, what it means to love, and the mind finds love isn't pleasure, love isn't mere desire, love isn't merely the pleasures of sex, or the pleasures of imagination, the pleasures of ideas - that has led to immense disorder. And also we've enquired into this extraordinary thing called death - we went into that the other day.
So I have enquired into the whole field of existence, so I am not deceived. You understand? The mind is very clear about all this, not as a conclusion, not as an idea, but actually.
Then it moves into this field where man has enquired and has been caught in various forms of illusions, substituting images and making the images sacred, the symbols instead of reality, and worshipping the symbol and forgetting the reality, building around the symbol, the image, great and marvellous cathedrals, temples and mosques. I see all that. And the cropping up of these innumerable gurus with their systems, with their craving for power, money, the degradation of their activity.
I see all that. So the mind is not going to be caught in any illusion. Right?
Are you following all this? Are we together? Now it says, what is there sacred?
And it starts with the enquiry not knowing anything that is sacred. You understand? The moment you say something is sacred it is already conditioned.
If you say love is sacred, if you say my vision, Krishna, Buddha, Christ, that is all conditioning, tradition. So I start - the mind starts with the enquiry not knowing a thing about what is sacred. Right?
Can you do it? Yes, you start with nothing. Good luck!
You know what it means, madame, to start with nothing. You understand what it means? No motive, no will, the 'me' with all its complex activities, to start with absolutely nothing.
Can you do it? You understand - no attachment. A body, an organism that won't distort perception.
You understand? Because the body reacts, acts on the mind, and the mind acts on the body, so unless the body is extraordinarily quiet, sensitive, so that it is completely in order. You understand what it means?
Are you following all this? There is no distraction of the body, no distraction of thought, or any motive engendered by thought, no purpose, no intention, no knowledge - knowledge must exist in a certain field, in the enquiry if there is anything sacred, knowledge has no place. So the mind is completely empty of everything that thought has put together.
Right? And when it is capable of saying, 'I really know nothing', that state of complete emptiness which is complete disassociation with the world, and all the world which has made the 'me'. I wonder if... are you following all this?
Then that nothingness is the most sacred thing. Intelligence is nothing. You follow?
Now in the discovery of that, then it operates, it functions in the life of every day. Then I am not a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Christian, nothing. You understand all this?
And this is meditation. You understand? A meditation because in the enquiry of this - not the search - in the enquiry, there is no leader, there is no teacher, there is no guru, there is no saviour.
The first thing is, learn never to follow anybody in this field. You can follow a doctor, he will teach you, a surgeon, he will teach you, there you have to observe, learn from somebody; here there is nobody from whom you can learn. Therefore no authority, including the speaker sitting here - he has no authority.
Therefore the mind in meditation is intelligence in action. Have you understood this? That means there must be... the body must be completely still - you understand sir?
- be aware of its gestures, its movements, its fiddling about, be aware of all that. Have a good body, even though one may have a disease, crippled, that pain mustn't interfere - you understand? - so that the mind is not distorted by pain.
Food matters enormously, what you eat, and so on and so on and so on. So all this is the process of meditation - not the systems, not the leaders, not those who give you mantras for thirty-five dollars, and all that tummy rot. And one must give one's life to this.
Every other form of life is a wasting of life. We have a short life to live, don't let's waste it. Now sir, I have talked enough.
A quarter to twelve. That's enough isn't it? I hope we shall meet next year.
I hope you will not mind if I don't make a speech or a talk, but turn this into a discussion or a dialogue. Would that be all right? Yes.
A conversation between us about serious things of life. And if the weather is good tomorrow evening, there will be a talk by the speaker. So, what shall we talk about?
Choiceless awareness. Choiceless awareness, the gentleman would like to talk about. (Inaudible) That is a statement that I have come across... (inaudible) I am afraid I don't quite understand the question, sir.
No, in a tiny book called medication, I have come across the statement... (inaudible) He wants to know, in a book that he read, a pamphlet that he read about meditation, something about (inaudible) deeply into the water. Would we like... any other thing you... I think it would be much more worthwhile and rather interesting if we could seriously go into problems that are actual not theoretical, not merely verbal or intellectual but about things that we are deeply concerned with, in our daily life - our activities, our sorrows and pleasures and pains.
If we could talk about that, it seems to me much more significant than merely talk about some theories. Isolation. Isolation.
Sir, what is the source of me? What is the source of me. What happens in sleep?
(Inaudible) K What happens to the 'me', goes to sleep. What is the reality of the me? Is that it, sir?
Yes. The problem of rain. Pain.
Rain, rain, rain. (Laughter) The problem of rain should be discussed with the weatherman. (Laughter) What is true spirituality and what is the shortest route to god-realization?
(Laughter) Sir, as I begin to watch my thoughts, thoughts are disappearing; even then, I am often in the thoughtless state. Is it choiceless awareness or not? Sir, do you know what is happening in the world?
What is the relationship of ourselves with the world - the corruption, the brutality, the violence, the appalling conditions that are going on in this country, as well as in Europe, America - what is our relationship to all that? Are we isolated? Are we separate from all that mess and chaos?
What is our relationship with human beings? Don't you want to discuss that kind of stuff? Yes, sir.
Yes. I would like to say, the voice is... (inaudible) ...lack of communication. Lack of communication, the right usage of words.
Personal greed. Greed. All right, sir, let's talk about that, shall we?
And introduce your question, sir, which was choiceless awareness, and perhaps touch upon mediation and all the rest of it. To go into this question of greed and see if the mind can ever be free of the... all the contamination and the trials and the corruption of greed. How do you look at that problem?
We are greedy, by nature, by the culture or the society in which we live, our education and spiritual, religious endeavour has made us very greedy. Both the world and the non-world, they have made us greedy. We all know that, obviously.
Not only greedy for money, position, greedy for enlightenment, whatever that be, greed for liberation, greed for better relationship, greed for sexuality, sensation and so on, multiplication of every kind of greed, in which is involved is envy. Right? Shall we discuss that?
Yes, please. Do you feel that's worth it? Yes.
You are all rather silent about it. Do you really want to discuss it? Yes, sir.
If you were talking about corruption, fear and our relationship to that, why don't you keep talking about that? Why don't you talk about our relationship with the world, which is in chaos, why don't you discuss that. Not only with that, sir, with our own family, it is also in chaos.
Yes, sir. That's the whole thing. Our own family, our relationship with each other, our relationship to politics, to the political leaders, our relationship to the world of literature, art, our relationship to everything that is going on - the murder, the wars, the chaotic gurus and their followers - all that is chaos in the world, and perhaps by talking about greed we might clarify some of this mess.
Shall we go into it? Yes. Right.
Are we going to it theoretically or directly? Directly, sir. We are going into it directly, sir.
Good. That means you're willing, when you see the truth of it, to put aside greed. Right?
Otherwise we are merely talking verbally, superficially. If we are really concerned with greed, with this envy, imitation, conformity - which we will all go into, in that word in which all this is included - then we must be prepared to see the immense danger of greed, the real danger of it, and act instantly. That is direct action.
That is real freedom from greed, not merely to discuss how greed arises and explain thousand ways and means of getting rid of it, while you are holding on to our greed. So if we could this evening go into it, not only verbally but enquire intelligently into this whole problem of envy and greed which has one of the factors that has brought about such chaos in the world, then what is greed? Why are human beings greedy?
Why are you greedy? Not only for money, envious of people, envious of not having power, for oneself and so on - why does society in which we live allow this? Or why does the culture, whether the Western or the Eastern culture, permit or educate human beings to run after or fulfil in greed?
Why? Why am I greedy? You - why are you greedy?
Come on, sirs. Because... (inaudible) What is greed? Ah!
I was looking for you earlier. (Laughter) No, we are old friends - we have known each other for the last years probably. I was looking for you earlier, sir.
He wants to know what is greed. What do you think it is? It seems to be the very nature of man.
He says it is the very nature of man to be greedy. The gentleman asked, sir, what is greed? What is envy?
Not only the dictionary meaning of that word but also the feeling, the drive behind that feeling, the enormous energy that goes into fulfilment of that greed. What do we mean by greed? The fulfilment of a desire, is that greed?
I desire a house, I desire a woman, I desire a car, I desire a position, I desire to be enlightened. Is the very nature of desire greed? The self is the nature of desire, is it not?
The sense of self. No, don't reduce it to the self immediately. We are trying to find out, sir, what is greed, how does it come about?
I see a beautiful house, well proportioned, good architecture, and so on and so on, and my desire says, 'How nice. I must have it'. What is the drive behind it?
Need for recognition. Need for recognition? Need for security?
Need for... Possession. Possessing it.
Possession. Look, sirs, don't you know you are greedy? Don't let's be ashamed of it, let's be fairly honest about these matters.
If we want to discuss seriously, one has to be fairly honest. We are greedy. Why?
Is it a habit? Is it that education has made us greedy? To be somebody.
A good house gives you prestige. A poor house doesn't. If you are a good professor with a lot of degrees, that gives you a prestige.
And most of us want a prestige. What is... why does human beings... why do you want it, sir? Do look into it.
Because we don't feel satisfied to be as we are? No, sir, we are not saying we should be attached. (Inaudible) Sir, do look, please.
Why am I greedy? I am putting the question to myself. What does greed mean to you and to me?
Why am I greedy? What does it mean to be greedy - the word - to possess, to acquire? Greedy involves envy, comparison, imitation, conformity - all that's implied, surely, in that word 'envy'.
Right, sir? I am envious of you who are bright, intelligent, know so much. I've been educated from childhood, in school, comparing myself with somebody who is much cleverer, and I compete.
Competition is a form of envy. I want to succeed as somebody else is succeeding, making a name for himself in the world. I want to fulfil in something that gives me prestige, position, power.
And being dissatisfied with all that, I seek enlightenment from some shoddy guru. He tells me what to do and I want to achieve what he has achieved. All those are various forms of envy.
Now can the mind understand this thing, the danger of it, the danger in the sense where there is imitation and conformity there is no flowering of goodness. So, envy, for me at least, envy is a tremendous danger, as dangerous as seeing a cobra or treading on a cobra, as dangerous as a bus that is hurtling towards me, as dangerous as a deep precipice. Right, sir?
I don't want to give a talk. This is a mutual conversation about envy. So what am I to do?
I realize that I am envious, because you are taller, you are more beautiful, you are clever, you have got a bigger house, I would like to have the same house, I don't have as much money as you have - I never compared myself with the lower but always with the higher. I am always comparing myself with the guru that has got such a following. I am going to be as good as somebody else.
So this constant comparison, this constant imitation which gives me the satisfaction that comes with success. I know all this; we know all this. I don't know... (inaudible) I have examined it.
Where there are the limits of conformity and the dangers of conformity. Where imitation is a natural thing and where imitation is most destructive. May I say something, sir?
May I say something? Delighted. I think this classified greed or need for material possessions along with the desire for enlightenment is not a problem.
Oh, it is not a problem... Because... Just a minute, sir, that's enough. Comparing (inaudible) positions and acquiring enlightenment are in (inaudible) - put those two together. Isn't that right, sir?
Yes. Yes. How do you know what enlightenment is, that you run after it?
Go on, sir, how do you know? Intuition. I read about it.
(Inaudible) Sir, you know - sir, just please kindly listen - you know that it means to acquire a house. There, you have to work - I have achieved, cut (inaudible), slightly corrupt, living in the modern society, and so on, so on, so on - there, you know exactly what you are doing, what you want. And do you know what enlightenment is?
As you know what you want about a house? You can't answer this, that's why. Do you know what truth is?
You want truth, don't you. So, sir, let's look at this problem. Being greedy, envious, for various reasons, which can be education, cultural, religious, every form of explanations why human beings are greedy, we can go on explaining but at the end of that explanation we are still greedy.
Now, a human being who observes what is happening in the world can see one of the factors of this mess, of this disaster, of this tremendous crisis that is going on - is one of the factors is envy. And as a human being living in this world, what is he to do? Just go on with envy, carry on, adding more and more to the mess?
Come on, sir, do discuss. So your problem then is, if one is at all serious and committed, in the sense to find out whether mind can really be free from greed, envy - committed, not just verbally discuss, indulge in explanation, but totally committed to the question of freeing the mind from the envy - whether it's possible. One must be contented with what he has.
One must be contented. One must be contented with what one has. Why should you be?
(Inaudible) Would you tell that to the gardener, to the poor man, to the labourer? Say, 'Be satisfied with what you have'. (Inaudible) What are you people talking about, sir?
(Inaudible) Sir, look, sir, either you talk seriously, or don't talk at all. Desire for desirelessness. Sir, please.
What is greed which affects another? What is the other one to do? I am asking you, sir, if greed is one of the factors of this modern world in which we live, with all its chaos.
And as a responsible human being, what will you do? Sir, observe as it is. If you observe as it is, then what?
(Inaudible) Sir, if I don't compete, there is no (inaudible) fighting for you. If I don't enter into this competition (inaudible) I have no place in society. If I free myself from envy, I have no place in society.
Right? Why should I have a place in society? What is this society so marvellous that I should have a place in it?
(Inaudible) Whether it is a communist society or modern society or the society of India - why should I fit into it? Sir, can we talk about the society in this room? It seems to me that the discussion is not getting off the ground.