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I know, sir. I see our difficulty because... it is not getting off the ground because we are not facing the issue at all. Well, the issue in this room, it seems to me that we are perhaps greedy for your approbation.
This is why we find various formulae... Ah, no, sir. I am not your guru, I am not your authority - please. No, sir, I am not suggesting you are, but isn't this happening?
Ah, then throw it overboard, throw it out of the wind and start. But I am suggesting we start there, sir... Sir, look, sir, look, sir, there is this problem of envy which man has not been able to solve. He is envious of his neighbour, he is envious of his guru, he is envious of everything, of knowledge.
Sir, haven't you noticed this in your own life, observed around you? The great scientists are envious of another great scientist. The Nobel Prize winner, he's there and everybody is after - envious.
The competition between gurus is envious - who has the greater following. Don't you know all this? Now, let's trace this thing, sir.
Being envious - in which is included greed - envy being comparing - I am small, you are big; I am ugly, you are beautiful; I am dull, you are intelligent; I know nothing, you know everything; you know enlightenment, I don't - this comparison is one of the factors of envy. Can you... can the mind stop comparing? Do look into it, sir, this is awareness.
Can the mind, your mind stop comparing, and live without comparison at all? Have you ever tried it? Sir, I am persuaded that the conditions you describe are to the human condition and that greed and envy and perhaps also total renunciation are equally pathological deviations one way or the other, and it may be what we do if we are greedy or envious that might be more important.
If I am envious of a Nobel Prize winner and exert myself in research and discovery, then that is a positive result. I see, I see. You are saying there are positive and negative sides to envy.
Envy is a factor for most of us, pathological, as neurological, as (inaudible) and so on, so on, so on. Now, being envious, what has it resulted in the world? Oh, sir, come on.
Chaos, fear. Don't say it, sir, feel it in your blood! Don't talk about it so emptily.
Look, sir, let me go into it. Sir, it depends... (inaudible) ...won't he be envious of you? You are envious of me?
(Laughter) (Inaudible) ...be envious of you. Have you understood, sir, I can't hear. Sir, please take a little in schools, children are compared.
One boy is compared with another boy - A is better than B. B is more bright, he gets better marks, and A has to compete with you - there it begins, it begins there. It begins in society, and so on - you can see it all around you, the expression of envy, comparison.
And I am asking you, can the mind live without any comparison at all? Not say yes or no - have you tried? Never comparing.
You understand, sir? I see you are clever, bright, intelligent, and in comparing myself with you, I say, 'How dull I am, how stupid I am'. You understand, sir?
In comparing with you, I have become dull. Please, are we going together? I am making myself dull or I think I am dull by comparing myself with you who are clever.
If there was no comparison, would I be dull? No. No, don't say no.
Look at it, sir! This is your life not my life. Sir, but the minute you want to create a state where there is no comparison, you already created a state which is already envious...
I have not stated anything, sir. I am asking you, sir, can your mind - you in your life - live without comparison? Yes, sir.
Sir, as long as the ego exists in man... (inaudible) I know, that's... the ego, the 'me', the self is a different problem, sir. Perhaps one of the factors of comparison... That's all of the ego, isn't it? Yes, sir, but I'm taking not the large content of the ego, but one of the factors, one of the fragments of the ego, which is comparison.
Can you live without comparing? The world would be static, sir... (inaudible) No, but... Wait, sir, wait sir.
You see how... The world, you say, will become static. (Inaudible) Sir, the 'me', the ego, the self, has... one of its aspects is comparison, conformity, accepting as habit, repeating anything in this traditional nonsense.
Now, one of the factors of this 'me' is conform, and I say to myself, why should I conform? Will the world become static if I don't become... if I don't conform? Sir, excuse me.
You said ego is a factor... (inaudible) ...comparison. It is the most important factor... (inaudible) I agree, sir. I agree, sir.
Do you take that... (inaudible) ...that is part of the ego, isn't it? Do you want to discuss, sir? Yes.
I mean, I do genuinely want to accept what you say. I am not... sir, I am not asking you to accept anything I say, or anybody says. I am asking you to look at it, to listen, to find out if what the speaker, sitting on this unfortunate platform, is saying.
Listen to it. He doesn't say he wants accept. He says, one of the factors of the misery in this world is comparison, and he goes into it.
He doesn't make that statement and go away. He says, look, from childhood we are trained, educated to conform. And conformity is comparison.
Now, I say to myself, we are second-hand human beings because we have always lived on other people's ideas, other people's opinions, other people's judgments and so on, so on, so on. And I say, can I - can I - live without comparing? And see what happens.
Will the world become non-progressive? (Inaudible) Just a minute, sir. Just a minute, sir, please.
Do you know what the word 'progress', what it originally meant? It meant originally, a man who is armed, prepared, fully armed to enter into enemy's country. You understand?
You understand progress? That's what it originally meant - a man who is fully armed, so that he can enter into an enemy's country, progress or go forward, fully armed. Now, would there be no progress if I as a human being didn't compare?
Sir, excuse me, I don't mean that human (inaudible), but the technological progress... Wait, wait. So you are dividing progress - which you think is the result of envy - technology and non-technology.
Technological world, is it make progress through envy, or through investigation? By comparison too, sir. Yes, sir.
First investigate, then talk about it - together we investigate, go more and more and more. Comparison comes when you discover more than I do, I am envious of you. It's a motive force, sir.
Is that the motive force of technology? For progress. For progress?
That is... Now what do you mean by progress? Technological progress? Yes, sir.
K Yes, they have been to the moon, they have lived under the sea and they have done all kinds of extraordinary things, and also technologically they have killed thousands and thousands of people. So you must take all that into account - not just science - its benefits and its colossal destructive nature, which governments use - right? - all that's progress.
Right. And is there any other kind of progress? Have you progressed from greed?
No. No. So, technologically we are advancing.
(Inaudible) Technologically some human begins are progressing or moving forward, and as human beings we are just what we were ten thousand years ago. Full stop. That's all I am saying.
So, as a human being, not as a technician, as a human being I see what envy, comparison has done in my life. I am comparing myself with your passion, I am envious of you, I want to kill you, I want to hurt you because I get angry because you are so much bigger than I am, much more rich, I become violent - all that's involved in these problems. What about natural talents?
Natural talent. If you have natural talent, you act, you go along with it. But the moment you use that talent in order to get more power, more position and beat somebody else, then it becomes tawdry.
That's sense. Now, sir, please, can you live without comparison? You will see, sir, if you live it, that you have tremendous more energy for something else.
But you don't know that because you don't want to try anything - you're traditional, you just follow somebody, you accept everything around you and you carry on. And you call that progress. So... (Inaudible) Would I explain that?
Why should I? (Inaudible) No, do listen to my questions. That's not an impertinent question.
Why should I explain it to you? I say, you will find out - find out what happens if you don't compare. What should we do with that energy?
Wait, sir, look, look, look. What should we do with that energy. Have you got that energy?
(Laughter) No, don't laugh. (Inaudible) This is the curse of this country. Discuss in abstractions.
You're experts in abstracting from the real. The word 'abstraction' means to withdraw, withdraw from the fact, and you have become experts at that. You cannot look at the fact.
The fact is I am... the mind is envious. I am envying, implies comparison. And can the mind, can your life be lived totally without comparison?
- myself, the Buddha; myself with somebody else; myself with my - no comparison at all. If I don't compare myself with any other person or any other situation, I am less miserable. Is that a fact to you?
Yes, sir. That because you don't compare, you are less miserable? Yes, sir.
I have nothing more to say; he says yes. Sir, I would feel like a dead man... (inaudible) Now, listen to this. If I don't compare, I become a dead man.
That is, by comparison you think you have progressed - right, sir? - progressed, evolved, grown, in what? What have you grown into by comparing?
I am an engineer or a lawyer; I compare myself with the other lawyer who is making , more than I do. What have I gained by that? (Inaudible) Ah, we've been through that scientific aspect which is technology - don't let's mix the two constantly - technologically we have advanced.
Right? Technologically, we have advanced, and now our greed, our envy, our viciousness is using that technology. Right?
Yes. And we are talking, the mind that is vicious, using technology, can that mind change? (Inaudible) Change.
Then perhaps you'd be intelligent and use technology intelligently. Now we are using technology not only intelligently but unintelligently. Is it intelligent, sir, to spend three quarters of your country's income on armament?
Every country is doing it; is that intelligent? If you don't do that, you'll become a slave of another country. If you don't do that, you become a slave of - which country?
Pakistan? Slave of another country - Pakistan? Russia?
America? China? (Inaudible) Wait, sir, wait, sir.
Look at it, sir. You'll become slaves to these people - you might - and therefore you say, 'I must protect myself'. Right?
Maintain our own freedom. Are you free? It would be worse if we were under somebody else.
I agree, sir. So you are saying we're more free than in Russia. Right?
You see, you don't face the fact. You are going away again to abstraction. Can your mind, can your life be lived without comparison?
It's a terrible habit. It's very hard to... That's right. It is very hard to get rid of a habit, of comparing.
Right? We can live without comparison, and, as you said, we get energy, but that energy again has to... Wait, sir.
Wait, sir, wait, sir. Who said? I said, the speaker said - so don't repeat what he says.
I said, you will find, if you investigate, go into it very deeply, that where the mind doesn't compare, it has got potential energy. And you will repeat that and it becomes an abstraction and has no validity at all. What has validity, depth, meaning, is only when you say, 'Well, I realize, I see the fact that comparison is very destructive and I want to find out whether my mind is comparing'.
Is it a habit? Then if it is a habit, comparing myself with others or various - then how am I, how is the mind to be free of that habit? Right, sir?
How is the mind to be free of that habit? Are you interested in it? Yes.
Will you do it? Yes. I show you.
Don't agree or disagree, just listen, find out. I am not your authority. I am not your guru, because you are not my followers, because that's... you destroy everything when you follow somebody - except the doctors and the lawyers and all the rest of it.
(Inaudible) But how to get rid of the... (inaudible) I am showing you, sir. Excuse me. When one compares oneself with the progressive world or whatever, it is an outward journey and it is very... it spends a lot of energy on oneself.
So in order to stop comparing, I think one has to take an inward journey, which is awareness. Ah, wait a minute, wait a minute, lady, please. I mean, many people can't do that because...
I am showing you something, please. Just observe it, sir, don't accept a thing what the speaker says. Whatever I say, don't accept it, observe it, listen.
If it is a habit, whether the comparisons are outward or inward, if it is a habit, the inward habit of comparing and the outward habit of comparing, if it is a habit, how is the mind to be free of that habit? (Inaudible) ...something more desirable. I said, sir, please, I said please listen for two minutes.
You say, develop the opposite habit, which is what? (Inaudible) Listen to it, sir. The habit of comparing and the habit of not comparing; is there any difference between the two habits?
You can find out by... Wait, please. Is there any difference between these two habits - the mind that has the habit if comparing and the mind that has the habit of not comparing - is there any difference between the two?
One is a good habit. The habit of not comparing, as you said... Habit, sir, we are talking about habit - there is no good habit and bad habit - we are talking about habit.
There's no difference. I say to myself, please, can the mind free itself from habit of comparison? - habit.
Now what is habit? A thoughtless repetition of an idea, of an action, is a fear. Right?
A constant repetition - that is a habit, isn't it? I am a Hindu, I am a Hindu, I am a Hindu - right? - that's a habit.
I am a Muslim, I am a Muslim - that's a habit. Now I'm asking, how is the mind to be free of habit, not fall into the trap of another habit but to be free of the habit of comparison? So I must first find out why the mind forms habits.
Right? Not only comparison - habit of sex, habit of calling yourself a Hindu, habit of saying, 'I am greater than you' - habit. Now why does the mind form habits?
Habit being not only cultivated now, but also the habit of tradition in which you are caught. Right? You're all traditionalists, aren't you?
That's your habit. Guru, enlightenment, follow what he says, sacrifice, give yourself over to some - I won't mention it - guru, and so on and so on - that's all your habit, with constant repetition, oh, read the Gita, rituals, rituals, rituals, rituals - that's all habit. I said, how can the mind... is it possible for the mind to free itself from habit?
By freeing itself from thoughts. Oh, sir, please, don't go too far ahead. That's an abstraction.
You are caught in a habit. What's wrong with that fact? What is wrong with habit - I am explaining it to you sir.
I am saying the habit of comparison is destructive. We've been into that. And I'm asking, can this mind which is caught in that habit free itself?
Without falling into other habits. Sir, is it possible to discuss this verbally, since... I am going it to you, sir.
Is it possible to discuss this or converse about this verbally? Let me explain, sir. I may be mistaken, so have the goodness to listen.
Habit means repetition, senseless, non... without any meaning or with meaning - repeat, repeat, repeat. Why does the mind do this? Why do you think the mind does it?
(Inaudible) Psychological security - that's another habit, sir. Psychological... (Inaudible) Sir, please. Psychological, sexual, the acceptance of authority, the acceptance of tradition, smoking, drinking, fornicating - all that becomes a habit.
Right? But it gives me a sense of security. Security then becomes a habit.
So I am saying, can the mind free itself from habit? And what do you mean by habit? Habit means repetition - pleasurable, non-pleasurable, avoidance of pain, it becomes another habit, as pursuit of pleasure becomes another habit.
So I say, can the mind free itself from habit? Is it at all possible? And if it is possible, why does the mind form habits?
Look at your own mind, sir, it's not my mind. Sir... Look at your own! I beg your pardon.
Some people in this country have no other habits except trying to find something to eat and trying to get a daily wage, but we feel different because our minds are creatively different, or... No, all habits - we are talking all habits, every form of habit... (Inaudible) Are you saying the sun rises and the sun sets? (Laughter) I feel that I am insecure because... (inaudible) Sir, of course. Why do you - I am tired of repeating.