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I am aware that I am frightened of losing money, of becoming ill, of my wife leaving me and God knows what else - I am frightened, and I am watching, I want to learn about it, therefore I am watching and my natural question who is watching this fear? Myself. I give it up!
You don't really look at it, learn, you are just making a statement. Learn. Who is watching?
Wait. When you say who is watching - just a minute sir, I will ask you - when I ask the who is watching, what takes place - in the very word itself? There is a division, isn't there?
The very question, who is watching, implies a division. Right? Madam, for the love of Pete listen to me!
It means a division. It's impossible. Wait.
It means that, the moment I ask that who is watching? That very question implies a division - wait - that's a fact. When I who is watching, it means the thing is there and I am watching, therefore there is a division.
Now why is there a division? You answer me this. Sir, don't guess.
Please, sir, one moment, don't guess, don't repeat what somebody else said, including myself. Find out why this division exists when the moment you ask the who is watching - it implies a division. Right?
Why is there this division? Find out. There is a desire on my part to watch.
There is a desire on my part to watch. Listen to that there is a desire on my part to watch. Which means the desire says watch in order to escape.
You follow? Before you have said I have understood, I mustn't escape, and now you find that desire is making you escape subtly, therefore you are still watching fear as an outsider. See the importance of this.
You are watching with an intention to get rid of fear. And we said, a few minutes ago, to get rid of fear means censoring fear. So your watching implies that trying to get rid of fear, therefore there is a division, which only strengthens fear.
Right? So I am again asking the who is watching fear? Sir, isn't there also another point, who is asking the question who is watching fear?
I am asking that question sir. But who is asking the question? The same thing, sir.
Same thing, only you push it further back, it is the same thing. Now please, this is the most practical way of going at it. You will see if you follow this very carefully, the mind will be free of fear.
But you are not doing it. I am frightened of losing money - thank God I haven't got any money to be frightened of! I am frightened of losing money and therefore what do I do?
I escape from it. I avoid it, I avoid to think about it. So I realise how silly of me to avoid it because the moment I resist it, more fear.
Then there arises, I am watching it, I say, who is watching it? Is it the desire that wants to get rid of it or go beyond it, to be free of it, that's watching? It is.
And I know desire, watching it that way, only divides and therefore strengthens fear. So I see the truth of that, therefore desire has gone. You follow?
Desire to get rid of it has gone. It's like seeing a poisonous snake and the desire to touch it is finished. Right?
The desire to take a drug, when I see the real danger of it, is finished, I won't touch it. As long as I don't see the danger of it I'll go on. In the same way, as long as I don't see that running away from fear is the strengthening of fear, I'll go on running away, doing every kind of thing.
The moment I see it I won't run. Then what happens? (Inaudible) I am telling you sir.
I am pointing out to you. The moment you are scared of looking at fear, then you won't learn about fear, and if you want to learn about fear, don't be scared, full stop. It is as simple as that.
If I don't know how to swim I won't plunge into the river. If I know that fear cannot possibly be ended, if I am afraid to look, and if I really want to look, I say 'I don't care, I will look'. Sir, he says it is his desire to get away from fear that constantly breeds more fear.
But when I am afraid I do want to get away from it so what I have to do, is what I always do, is to let fear well up in me so that I can identify with it, so that I can unify myself. You see that! It is all these tricks we are playing on ourselves.
Do listen sir. Who is asking, who is saying all this? You make an effort to identify yourself with fear.
I am that fear. Ah! Wait.
Wait, wait, wait. If you are that fear, as you say you are, then what happens? When I come to terms with it, it begins to... Ah, no, no, not, terms.
When you say that you are fear, fear is not something separate from you, just a minute sir, what takes place? Sir, I am brown. I am afraid to be brown because it's not - you know all the rest of it.
But I say yes, I am brown and that's the end of it, isn't it? I am not running away from it. What takes place then?
Accept. Accept? On the contrary, I forget about it.
I forget that I am brown. You don't even know all this. You are just guessing.
Sir, look, it's time to stop, I'll stop. We'll continue with this tomorrow. I want to learn about myself.
I must know myself completely, passionately because that's the foundation of all action, without that I'll lead a life of utter confusion. So I must learn about myself. To learn about myself I cannot follow anybody.
If I follow anybody I am not learning. Learning implies the past doesn't interfere because myself is something so extraordinarily vital, moving, dynamic, so I must look at it afresh with a new mind. There is no new mind if there is the past that is always operating.
That's a fact. I see that. Then in seeing that I realise I am frightened.
I don't know what will happen. So fear - I want to learn about fear - you follow? I am moving all the time in the movement of learning.
I want to know about myself and I realise something, a profound truth, and also in learning about fear I am going to learn, which means I mustn't run away from it at any price. I mustn't have a subtle form of desire to run away from it. So what happens to a mind that is capable of looking at it without division?
The division being, getting rid of it, subtle form of escape, suppression and so on - what happens to the mind when it is confronted with fear and there is no question of running away from it? Please I have to stop. We will go on from where we leave off today, tomorrow.
Please in the meantime find out, give your mind to it. Shall we go on from where we left off yesterday? We were talking about fear and the necessity of knowing oneself.
I don't know if one sees the great, the utter importance of understanding the nature and the structure of oneself. As we said, if there is no comprehension, not intellectual or verbal, but actually understanding what one is, and the possibility of going beyond it, we must inevitably bring about confusion, contradiction in ourselves, activities that will lead to a great deal of mischief and sorrow. So it behoves and it is absolutely essential that one should understand, not only the superficial layers of oneself, but the total entity, all the hidden parts.
And I hope in communicating with each other, that is, in understanding together this whole problem we shall be able actually, not theoretically, to see if through self-knowledge the mind can go beyond its own conditioning, its own habits, its own prejudices and so on. And we were talking yesterday about learning, learning about oneself; learning implies a non-accumulative movement. There is no movement if it is accumulation.
If a river is flowing and it ends up in a lake there is no movement. There is a movement only when there is a constant movement, a constant flow, a strong current. And learning implies that.
Learning not only about outward things, scientific facts, but also learning about oneself, because oneself is a constant, changing, dynamic, volatile being. And to learn about it the past experiences in no way help, on the contrary past impedes learning, puts an end to learning and therefore to a complete action. I hope when we discussed this point yesterday we saw this very clearly; that we are dealing with a constant, living movement of life, the movement which is the 'me'.
And to understand that 'me', to learn about that 'me', which is so very subtle, there needs to be an intense curiosity, a persistent awareness, a sense of non-accumulative comprehension. I hope we were able to communicate this with each other yesterday, this whole question of learning. And that is where our trouble is going to be, because our mind likes to function in grooves, in patterns, from a fixed conclusion, or a prejudice, or knowledge.
It is tethered to a particular belief and from there it tries to understand this extraordinary movement of the 'me'. And therefore there is a contradiction between the 'me' and the observer. And we were talking yesterday about fear, which is part of this movement, part of this total movement of the 'me', the 'me' which breaks up life as a movement, the 'me' that separates as the 'you' and the 'me.
And we said, what is fear? And we are going to learn non-accumulatively about fear. The very word 'fear' prevents coming into contact with that feeling of danger which we call fear.
Look sirs, maturity implies a total, natural development of a human being; a total, natural development of a human being - natural in the sense non-contradictory, harmonious, which has nothing to do with age. And the factor of fear prevents this natural, total development of the mind. I'll go on a little and then we will discuss about all this.
When one is afraid, not only of physical things, but also of psychological factors, then in that fear what takes place? You understand? There is I am afraid, not only of physically falling ill, dying - you know physical fears that one has - darkness, you know the innumerable fears that one has both biologically as well as psychologically.
Now what does that fear do to the mind, the mind which has created these fears? You understand my question? Please, don't immediately answer me yet, let's look at ourselves - I have fear.
What is the effect of that on the mind, on one's whole life, living? Or we are so used to fear, we have accustomed ourselves to fear which has become a habit, we are unaware of its effects. If I am accustomed to the dogma, to the beliefs, to the national feeling of the Hindu, I am totally unaware, enclosed in this conditioning, of what the effects of it are.
I only see what that nationalism, that calling myself a Hindu, that feeling that arouses in me and I am satisfied with that. I identify myself with the country, with the belief and so on and so on, and all the rest of it. But we don't see the effect of such a conditioning all around.
In the same way, we don't see what fear does, both psychologically as well as biologically, physically, psychosomatically. What does it do? Sir, this is a discussion.
This is a discussion. You have to take part in it. I become involved in trying to stop this happening.
It stops or immobilises action. Or, is one aware of that? Generally not.
No sir, not generally, are you? Don't generalise. We are discussing this morning and all these discussions, in order to see what is actually happening within us because otherwise these dialogues, talking over together, has no meaning.
In talking over what fear does and becoming conscious of it, aware of it, it might be possible to go beyond it. So I must, if I am at all serious, see the effects of fear. And do I know the effects of it?
Or do I know it verbally? Or do I know it as something which has happened - please listen to this - something which has happened in the past, which remains as a memory, and that memory says, these are the effects of it, and therefore the memory sees the effects of it, but the mind doesn't see the actual effect of it. I don't know if you see that?
Do you see the importance of this? I have said something which is really quite - eh? Could you say it again?
Could I say it again? (Laughter) Wait a minute sir. What did I say?
(Laughter). You said the mind saw the effects of fear - the memory saw it but the mind didn't. When I say, I know the effects of fear, what does that mean?
Either I know it verbally, that is, intellectually, or I know it as a memory, as something that has happened in the past and I say, yes, this did happen. From the past I see the effects. Right?
So the past tells me what the effects are. Don't disturb me please. But I don't actually, actually, at the moment see the effects of it.
The past tells me the effects of it therefore it is something remembered and something of the past and therefore not real. Whereas knowing implies non-accumulative recognition or seeing - not recognition - seeing the fact. Have I conveyed this?
Look, how do I, when I say I am hungry, is it the remembrance of a hunger of yesterday which tells me I am hungry, the remembrance, or the actual fact of hunger, now? The two are entirely different. Right?
The actual awareness that I am hungry is entirely different from the response of a memory which has told me I have been hungry, therefore you are hungry now. So which is it? Is the past telling you the effects of fear, or are you aware of the actual fact, actual happening of the effects of fear?
I have got it. You see the difference? Which is it?
The action of the two are entirely different - aren't they? The one, of being completely aware of the effects of fear now, and that acts instantly. Right?
But if the effects of fear of the past and that memory tells me, yes the effects are these, then that action is entirely different. Right? Have I made myself clear?
Right, now which is it? Can you distinguish between the feeling about a particular fear and actually being aware of the effects of fear as such, as apart from remembering the effects of fear? I think that was the distinction that was made.
That's what I was trying to explain, wasn't I? Wasn't I? Have I misunderstood your question, sir?
I thought when you made that remark, you wouldn't remember, it was distinguishing the remembering the effects of a particular fear and seeing what fear does to one. All right, I've got it. Yes.
The questioner says they have heard - must I repeat all this? Can't somebody repeat this? I want to go on!
Go on. Go on! The action of the two are entirely different - do we see that?
Please, be careful, don't say, if you don't see it, don't say yes, don't let's play games with each other, this is very important to understand this. Is the past telling, saying the effects of fear, or there is a direct perception or awareness of the effects of fear now? If the past is telling, saying the effects of fear the action is incomplete, and therefore contradictory, therefore it brings conflict.
But whereas if one is aware completely of the fear, the effects of fear now, the action is total. As one is sitting here I have no fear because I am listening to what you are saying. Yes.
As I am sitting in the tent now I have no fear because I am listening to what you are talking about, naturally I am not afraid. But this fear may come up as I leave the tent. But can't you, sitting here in this rather hot tent, see your fear, which you may have had yesterday, see it, invoke it, invite it.
It may be right fear. Daily life is fear. Fear is daily life.
Wait. Whatever the fear be - daily life of fear, losing money, afraid of your husband, wife, afraid of losing your job, afraid of darkness, afraid what people - afraid - afraid of death, afraid of not becoming famous, fulfilling, wanting to be recognised - you know, fears. Can't you?
Need you go back and say, 'Well, I have no fear now, but when I go outside I'll have them' - it is there. You can invoke it, as you say. You can remember it.
But at this point you bring memory, the thought of what is should be. Sir, I am asking sir - do find out sir. Need I wait till I leave the tent to find out what my fears are, or sitting here be aware of them?
If the unawareness of fear itself... Sir, look. I am not afraid at this moment what my brother might say to me. But when I meet the man he is going to say things that will frighten me.
Right? Can't I see the actual fact of that now? No?
Well if you do that you do a practice already. No, it is not a practice. You see, you are so afraid of doing anything which might become a practice.
I am not saying - sir, aren't you afraid of losing your job? Aren't you afraid of death? Aren't you afraid of not being able to fulfil?
Aren't you afraid of being lonely? Aren't you afraid of not being loved? Aren't you?
Some form of fear? What your son, your husband - something, aren't you? Only if there is a challenge.
No, but I am challenging you. Not 'if there is a challenge'. I can't understand this mentality.
If there is an impulse you act, you have to do something. No. You see you are making it so complicated.
It is as natural as hearing that train roar by. Either you can remember the noise of that train, or listen actually to that noise. Don't complicate it, please.
Aren't you in a way complicating it by talking about invoking fear? I don't have to invoke any of my fears - just by being here I can see my reactions. That's all.
That's all. That's all, sir, I am saying. In order to live we must know the difference between the brain and the mind?
Oh, I've been through that, sir. I have been through that. We have discussed that before.
We are now discussing, trying to find out - I'll go on - we are now trying to find out what fear is, to learn about it. Is the mind free to learn about fear - learn? Learning being watching the movement of fear, watching it.
And you can only watch it, the movement of fear, when you are not remembering the past fears and with those memories watching. You see the difference? I can watch, I can learn.
I can watch the movement of fear with a background of memories of previous fears, or I can watch the movement, the responses of fear, without the past. Now which is it that you are doing? Don't complicate it, it is so very simple.
Which is it you are doing? Watching it with a memory of the past? Are you watching it without that memory, watching, learning about what is actually taking place when there is fear?
(Inaudible) I am watching. I am boiling with fear all the time. I don't seem to be able to get rid of it.
Unfortunately we have no actual fears at this moment. All right sir. You may not have fear now but you have had fears, haven't you?
Yes? What happened when you had those fears? What was the effect of those fears around you and in you?