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And that's great. I think that's really important. But there are two aspects to it. One is we have to accept that the world we live in is what it is. And if people would just recognize that the world is the way it is whether we like it or not, I think it would change a lot the way people behave. | and that's great i think that's really important but there are two aspects to it one is we have to, accept that the world we, live in. is what it is and if people would. just. recognize that the world is the way. it is whether we like it or not i think, it would change a lot the way people | And that's great I think that's really important But there are two aspects to it One is we have to accept that the world; we, live in is what it is And if people would just recognize that the world is the. way it is whether we like it or not I, think it would. change a lot the. way people | and that's great. i think that's really important. but there are two aspects to it. one is we have to accept that the world we live in is what it is. and if people would just recognize that the world is the way it is whether we like it or not, i think it would change a lot the way people behave. |
But at the same time, I think we should - we need to recognize also that sometimes the actual universe is more fascinating than even our imagination, and it can spur - it can spur our imagination not just as scientists, but I also, I suspect, as - for artists. And that's why I think it's another good reason to sort of keep up with some of the fantastic things that are happening in the world. | but at the same time i think we should - we need to recognize also that sometimes the actual universe, is, more fascinating, than even our imagination, and it can spur - it can spur our imagination not just as scientists but i also i suspect as - for artists and that's why i think it's another good reason to sort of keep up with some of the fantastic things that, are happening in the | But at the same time I think we, should - we need to recognize also that sometimes the actual universe is more, fascinating than. even our imagination and, it can spur - it can, spur our, imagination not just as scientists but I also. I suspect as - for artists And that's why. I think it's another good reason to sort of keep up with some of the fantastic things that, are happening in the | but at the same time, i think we should - we need to recognize also that sometimes the actual universe is more fascinating than even our imagination, and it can spur - it can spur our imagination not just as scientists, but i also, i suspect, as - for artists. and that's why i think it's another good reason to sort of keep up with some of the fantastic things that are happening in the world. |
Because I think if all three of us were locked in a room without any access to information about how the world behaved, that none of our work would be as -hopefully, well, I suspect as creative or interesting as it might be. | because i think if all three of us were locked in a room without any access to information about how the world behaved that none. of our work would be as -hopefully well i suspect as. creative or interesting as it might. | Because I think if all three, of us were locked. in a room without any access to information about how the world behaved that none of our work would be as -hopefully well I suspect as creative or interesting as it; might | because i think if all three of us were locked in a room without any access to information about how the world behaved, that none of our work would be as -hopefully, well, i suspect as creative or interesting as it might be. |
Do you think when you bring scientists and artists and writers together, they actually inspire each other, give each other ideas? | do you think when you bring scientists and artists and writers together they actually inspire each. other give each other | Do you. think, when you bring scientists and artists and writers together they actually inspire each other give each other | do you think when you bring scientists and artists and writers together, they actually inspire each other, give each other ideas? |
Well, these two gentlemen have inspired me for many years in many different ways. So there's no doubt about it. I can say I'm inspired. They can speak for themselves. | well these two gentlemen have inspired me for many. years in many different ways so there's no doubt, about it i can. say i'm, inspired they can speak for | Well; these two gentlemen have inspired me for many years in many. different ways So; there's no doubt about it I, can say I'm inspired They can speak for | well, these two gentlemen have inspired me for many years in many different ways. so there's no doubt about it. i can say i'm inspired. they can speak for themselves. |
Well, for me, for example, a film like "Fitzcarraldo," where I moved a huge ship over a mountain in the Amazon jungle, actually started out in Brittany, at the coast of - the northwestern coast of France, where you have (unintelligible) Neolithic, huge slabs of stone erected. But there are thousands of them in parallel rows. | well. for, me for example a film like "fitzcarraldo" where i moved. a huge ship over a. mountain in the amazon, jungle actually started out in brittany at the, coast of - the northwestern coast of france where you have (unintelligible) neolithic huge slabs of stone erected. but there are thousands of them in parallel | Well for me for example a film like "Fitzcarraldo" where I moved a huge ship over a mountain in the Amazon jungle, actually. started out in Brittany at the, coast of - the northwestern coast of France where you have (unintelligible) Neolithic huge slabs of stone erected But there are thousands of them in parallel | well, for me, for example, a film like "fitzcarraldo," where i moved a huge ship over a mountain in the amazon jungle, actually started out in brittany, at the coast of - the northwestern coast of france, where you have (unintelligible) neolithic, huge slabs of stone erected. but there are thousands of them in parallel rows. |
It was a slow start. Their ship in Cape Horn was trapped at anchor for eight days by howling weather, but then they got a 12-hour quiet spell. | it was a slow start their ship in cape horn was trapped at anchor for eight days by howling weather but then they got a 12-hour quiet | It was a slow start Their ship in Cape Horn was trapped at anchor for eight; days by howling weather but then they. got a; 12-hour quiet | it was a slow start. their ship in cape horn was trapped at anchor for eight days by howling weather, but then they got a 12-hour quiet spell. |
And it made me very angry because a pseudo-scientist had postulated that these stones were so heavy that only ancient astronauts from different planets could have done it. And I thought: This is so completely and utterly idiotic. It just itched me, and I wanted to find out. And it led to a way, how to move a ship over a mountain. | and, it made me very angry because a pseudo-scientist had postulated that these stones were so, heavy that, only ancient astronauts from different planets could have done it and i thought: this is so completely and utterly idiotic, it just itched me, and i wanted to find out and it led to a way how to. move a, ship over a | And it made me very angry because a pseudo-scientist had postulated that these stones were so heavy that only ancient astronauts from different; planets could have. done it And I thought: This is so completely and utterly idiotic It just itched. me and I wanted. to. find out And it. led to; a way how to move a ship, over a | and it made me very angry because a pseudo-scientist had postulated that these stones were so heavy that only ancient astronauts from different planets could have done it. and i thought: this is so completely and utterly idiotic. it just itched me, and i wanted to find out. and it led to a way, how to move a ship over a mountain. |
And you, as a filmmaker, by making a documentary or showing how this could actually be done without the need for aliens, can influence a large public that might not listen to scientists speak about it, because your -through film. | and you as a filmmaker. by making a documentary, or, showing how this, could actually be done without the need for aliens can influence a large public that might not listen to scientists speak about it because your -through | And you as a filmmaker. by making a documentary or showing how this could actually be done without the need for aliens can influence a large public that might not listen to scientists speak about it because your -through | and you, as a filmmaker, by making a documentary or showing how this could actually be done without the need for aliens, can influence a large public that might not listen to scientists speak about it, because your -through film. |
Yeah, I just jump in. I think that's the point. I think the public is intimidated by science, but they love great books and great film. And to the extent that those can in some sense lead people to think about those questions in a realistic way, that's great. | yeah i just jump in i think that's the point i think the. public is intimidated by science but. they love great books and great film and to the extent that those can in some sense lead, people to think about those questions in a realistic way that's | Yeah I. just jump, in I think that's the point I think the public is intimidated by. science but, they love great books and great film And to the extent that those. can in some sense lead people to think about those. questions in a realistic way that's | yeah, i just jump in. i think that's the point. i think the public is intimidated by science, but they love great books and great film. and to the extent that those can in some sense lead people to think about those questions in a realistic way, that's great. |
Cormac, when you hang around scientists, do they make you optimistic or pessimistic? | cormac when you hang around scientists do they. make you optimistic or | Cormac when you. hang around scientists; do, they. make you optimistic or | cormac, when you hang around scientists, do they make you optimistic or pessimistic? |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
Well, some of my friends would probably tell you that making me pessimistic would be a difficult chore indeed. But I'm - I don't know. I'm not - I'm pessimistic about a lot of things, but as Lawrence has quoted me as saying, there's no reason to be miserable about it. | well some of my friends would probably tell you that; making me pessimistic would be a, difficult chore indeed. but i'm - i don't know i'm not - i'm pessimistic about a. lot of things but, as lawrence has quoted me as. saying there's no; reason to be miserable about | Well some of my friends would probably, tell you that making me pessimistic. would be a difficult chore indeed But I'm - I don't. know I'm not - I'm pessimistic about, a lot of things but as Lawrence has quoted me, as saying there's no reason. to be miserable. about | well, some of my friends would probably tell you that making me pessimistic would be a difficult chore indeed. but i'm - i don't know. i'm not - i'm pessimistic about a lot of things, but as lawrence has quoted me as saying, there's no reason to be miserable about it. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
It's one of my favorite quotes. | it's one of my, favorite | It's one of. my. favorite | it's one of my favorite quotes. |
I don't know. The other thing we talked about a few minutes ago was how bad we are at prognostications. So the fact that I take a pretty dreary view of the future is cheering because I think, you know, the chances are that I'm wrong. | i don't know the. other; thing we talked about a few minutes ago was how bad, we are at. prognostications so the fact that i take a pretty. dreary view of the, future is cheering because i think you know the chances are that i'm, | I don't know The other; thing; we talked about a, few minutes ago was how bad we are at prognostications So the fact that I take, a pretty dreary view. of the future is cheering because I think you, know the. chances are that I'm | i don't know. the other thing we talked about a few minutes ago was how bad we are at prognostications. so the fact that i take a pretty dreary view of the future is cheering because i think, you know, the chances are that i'm wrong. |
Well, certainly reading "The Road," one hopes so, that you're wrong about that future scenario. | well certainly reading "the road" one hopes so that you're wrong about that, future | Well certainly reading "The Road" one hopes so that you're, wrong about that future | well, certainly reading "the road," one hopes so, that you're wrong about that future scenario. |
I think Cormac is not wrong, because it's quite evident that human beings, as a species, will vanish and fairly quickly. When I say quickly, maybe in two or three thousand years, maybe 30,000 years, maybe 300,000, but not much more, because we are much more vulnerable than other species, despite a certain amount of intelligence. | i think cormac is not wrong because it's quite evident that human beings; as a species will vanish and fairly, quickly, when. i say, quickly maybe in two or three thousand years maybe 30,000 years maybe 300,000, but not much, more because we, are much more vulnerable than other, species despite a certain amount of. | I think Cormac. is not wrong because it's quite. evident, that human beings as a species will vanish and fairly quickly, When I say quickly maybe in two or. three thousand years maybe, 30,000 years. maybe. 300,000, but not much. more because we are much more vulnerable than other species despite a certain amount of. | i think cormac is not wrong, because it's quite evident that human beings, as a species, will vanish and fairly quickly. when i say quickly, maybe in two or three thousand years, maybe 30,000 years, maybe 300,000, but not much more, because we are much more vulnerable than other species, despite a certain amount of intelligence. |
It doesn't make me nervous that fairly soon we'll have a planet which doesn't contain human beings. | it doesn't make me nervous that fairly soon we'll have a planet which doesn't contain human | It doesn't make. me nervous that fairly soon we'll have a planet which doesn't contain human | it doesn't make me nervous that fairly soon we'll have a planet which doesn't contain human beings. |
Well, you know, it's interesting you say that, because I flip back and forth as a scientist between - you know, I think there are days when -I don't know whether I've ever imagined a future quite as bleak as "The Road," but maybe. | well. you know it's interesting you say that because i flip back. and forth as a scientist between - you know i think there are days, when -i don't know whether i've ever imagined a future quite as bleak as "the road" but | Well you know it's interesting you say that because I flip, back and forth as a scientist between - you know I think there are days when -I don't know whether I've ever imagined a. future quite as bleak as "The Road" but | well, you know, it's interesting you say that, because i flip back and forth as a scientist between - you know, i think there are days when -i don't know whether i've ever imagined a future quite as bleak as "the road," but maybe. |
But - you know, because I think, you know, humanity as an ensemble hasn't demonstrated a lot of intelligence about behaving in a way that globally impacts on the planet in a healthy way. | but - you know because i think you know. humanity as an ensemble hasn't demonstrated a lot of. intelligence about behaving, in a. way that globally impacts on the planet in a healthy | But - you know, because I. think you know humanity as an, ensemble hasn't demonstrated a. lot of intelligence about behaving in a way that globally impacts on the planet in a healthy | but - you know, because i think, you know, humanity as an ensemble hasn't demonstrated a lot of intelligence about behaving in a way that globally impacts on the planet in a healthy way. |
But at the same time, I agree with Werner, but I'm not so sure we'll vanish because we've destroyed ourselves. We may vanish... | but at the, same time i agree with, werner but i'm not so sure we'll vanish because we've destroyed ourselves we may | But at the same time I agree. with Werner but I'm not so sure we'll vanish because we've destroyed ourselves We may | but at the same time, i agree with werner, but i'm not so sure we'll vanish because we've destroyed ourselves. we may vanish... |
No, for other reasons. I'm not speaking of self-destruction, which could happen, of course, but that many events thinkable out there which would instantly wipe us out. | no for other reasons i'm not speaking. of self-destruction which could happen of course but that many events thinkable out there which would instantly wipe us | No for. other reasons I'm not. speaking of, self-destruction which could happen of course but that many events thinkable out there which would instantly wipe us | no, for other reasons. i'm not speaking of self-destruction, which could happen, of course, but that many events thinkable out there which would instantly wipe us out. |
Oh, absolutely. That's likely to happen. That will inevitably happen anyway. But I think there might be a rosier future. Just let me throw one thing in which I think is rosy. | oh absolutely that's likely to happen that, will inevitably happen anyway but i think there might be a rosier future just let me throw one thing in which i think is | Oh absolutely That's likely to happen That will inevitably happen anyway But I, think there might be a rosier future Just let me throw one thing in which I think is | oh, absolutely. that's likely to happen. that will inevitably happen anyway. but i think there might be a rosier future. just let me throw one thing in which i think is rosy. |
Lawrence, let me let you hold that because we have to go to a break, and a rosy future would be a good way to start the next segment. | lawrence let me let you hold that because, we have to go. to a break and a rosy future would be a good way to start the next | Lawrence let me. let you hold that because we have to go to. a break and a rosy future would, be a good way to start the next | lawrence, let me let you hold that because we have to go to a break, and a rosy future would be a good way to start the next segment. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
So stay with us. We're talking about the future with Werner Herzog, Lawrence Krauss and Cormac McCarthy. Our number, 1-800-989-8255. Tweet us, @scifri, @-S-C-I-F-R-I. You may never see these three together in a room again. So here's your opportunity to talk with them. We'll get back. You can, as I say, tweet us, @scifri. I'm Ira Flatow. This is SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR. | so stay with us we're talking about the future with. werner herzog lawrence krauss and. cormac mccarthy our number, 1-800-989-8255. tweet; us @scifri @-s-c-i-f-r-i you may never see these three together in a room again so here's your, opportunity to talk with them we'll get back you can as. i say tweet us. @scifri i'm ira flatow this is science friday from, | So stay with us We're talking about, the, future with Werner Herzog Lawrence Krauss and Cormac McCarthy Our number 1-800-989-8255. Tweet us @scifri @-S-C-I-F-R-I You may never see these three together in a room, again So here's your opportunity to talk with them We'll, get back You can as I say tweet us @scifri I'm Ira Flatow This, is SCIENCE FRIDAY from | so stay with us. we're talking about the future with werner herzog, lawrence krauss and cormac mccarthy. our number, 1-800-989-8255. tweet us, @scifri, @-s-c-i-f-r-i. you may never see these three together in a room again. so here's your opportunity to talk with them. we'll get back. you can, as i say, tweet us, @scifri. i'm ira flatow. this is science friday from npr. |
(Soundbite of music) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of, | (soundbite of music) |
You're listening to SCIENCE FRIDAY. I'm Ira Flatow. | you're listening to science friday, i'm ira | You're listening to SCIENCE FRIDAY I'm Ira | you're listening to science friday. i'm ira flatow. |
We're talking this hour about science, art and human origins with my guests: Werner Herzog, director of many films. His latest film is "Cave of Forgotten Dreams." Cormac McCarthy, novelist and playwright - his latest novel, "The Road," won the 2007 Pulitzer Prize for Fiction. Lawrence Krauss, foundation professor and director of the ASU Origins Project. | we're talking this hour about science art and human origins with my guests: werner herzog director. of many films his latest film is "cave of forgotten dreams" cormac mccarthy novelist and playwright - his. latest, novel "the road" won the 2007 pulitzer, prize for. fiction lawrence krauss foundation professor and director of the asu origins | We're talking this. hour about science art and human origins with my guests: Werner Herzog director of many films His latest film is, "Cave of Forgotten, Dreams" Cormac McCarthy novelist and playwright - his latest novel "The Road" won the 2007 Pulitzer Prize for Fiction Lawrence; Krauss foundation professor and director of the, ASU Origins | we're talking this hour about science, art and human origins with my guests: werner herzog, director of many films. his latest film is "cave of forgotten dreams." cormac mccarthy, novelist and playwright - his latest novel, "the road," won the 2007 pulitzer prize for fiction. lawrence krauss, foundation professor and director of the asu origins project. |
Our number, 1-800-989-8255. And when I rudely interrupted Lawrence, as I do many times, even in real life over a beer... | our number 1-800-989-8255. and when i rudely interrupted lawrence as. i do many times even in real, life over, a | Our number 1-800-989-8255. And when I rudely interrupted Lawrence as I. do many times even in real life over a | our number, 1-800-989-8255. and when i rudely interrupted lawrence, as i do many times, even in real life over a beer... |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
Martini. | martini. |
||
He was telling about his vision of a rosier future than the one in "The Road." | he was telling about his vision; of a rosier future than the one, in "the | He was. telling about his; vision of a rosier, future than the one in "The | he was telling about his vision of a rosier future than the one in "the road." |
Well, yeah, I'm not sure it's the rosy future that some people would think about. But, you know, I've talked about the fact that, you know, we imagine we are the pinnacle of evolution, but I doubt that's the case. | well yeah. i'm not sure it's, the rosy future that. some people would. think about but you know i've talked about the fact that you know we. imagine we are the pinnacle of evolution but i doubt that's the, | Well yeah; I'm not sure it's the rosy future that some people would think about But you know I've talked about the fact that you know we imagine we, are, the pinnacle of evolution, but I doubt that's the, | well, yeah, i'm not sure it's the rosy future that some people would think about. but, you know, i've talked about the fact that, you know, we imagine we are the pinnacle of evolution, but i doubt that's the case. |
And in fact, I think it's quite clear to me in the long run that I think computers will one day be - if we persist as a species to develop them - will one day become self-aware and conscious, and it'll be obvious to me that they're much, much - they'll probably be much superior to us, and biology will have to, in some way, adapt to them. | and in fact. i think it's quite clear to me in the long run that i think computers will one day, be. - if we persist as a species to develop them, - will one day become self-aware and conscious and it'll be obvious to me, that they're much. much - they'll, probably be, much superior, to, us and biology will have to in some; way adapt to | And in fact I think, it's quite clear to me. in the long run. that I think computers, will. one day be - if we persist as a species to develop them - will one day. become; self-aware and conscious. and it'll be obvious. to me. that they're much much - they'll probably be much superior to us, and biology will have to in, some way adapt to | and in fact, i think it's quite clear to me in the long run that i think computers will one day be - if we persist as a species to develop them - will one day become self-aware and conscious, and it'll be obvious to me that they're much, much - they'll probably be much superior to us, and biology will have to, in some way, adapt to them. |
And you know, movies always show the computers as being bad, but I don't know why that would be the case. If they're self-aware, I doubt they'll be any worse than we are. | and you know movies always show the computers as being bad but i don't know why that would, be the case if they're self-aware i doubt they'll be any worse than we | And you know movies always show the computers as being. bad, but I don't. know why that would be the case If they're self-aware I doubt they'll be any worse than we | and you know, movies always show the computers as being bad, but i don't know why that would be the case. if they're self-aware, i doubt they'll be any worse than we are. |
And my friend, Frank Wilchek(ph), asks - well, he wants to know if they do physics the same way. So I think, you know, we may disappear as a species just because we become irrelevant, as well as being destroyed. But I don't think that's a bad thing. That's just - that may be the future. | and my friend frank wilchek(ph), asks - well he wants to know if, they do physics the same way so i. think you know we may disappear as a; species just because we. become irrelevant as well. as; being, destroyed but i don't, think that's a bad thing, that's just - that may be the | And my friend Frank Wilchek(ph), asks - well he wants to. know if they do physics the same way So I think you know we; may disappear, as a species just because we become irrelevant as well. as being. destroyed But I don't, think that's a bad thing That's just. - that may be the | and my friend, frank wilchek(ph), asks - well, he wants to know if they do physics the same way. so i think, you know, we may disappear as a species just because we become irrelevant, as well as being destroyed. but i don't think that's a bad thing. that's just - that may be the future. |
And I think, you know, I think where I really would agree with what - certainly what Werner said, in some sense, is that we shouldn't be - and with Cormac - we shouldn't be depressed if we disappear. We should be thrilled that we're here right now. | and i think you know i think. where i really would agree. with what - certainly. what werner said in some sense is that we shouldn't be - and with, cormac - we shouldn't be depressed if we disappear we should be thrilled that we're here right | And, I think you, know I think where I really would, agree with; what - certainly what Werner said in. some sense is that we shouldn't be - and with Cormac, - we shouldn't be depressed if we disappear We should be thrilled that we're here right | and i think, you know, i think where i really would agree with what - certainly what werner said, in some sense, is that we shouldn't be - and with cormac - we shouldn't be depressed if we disappear. we should be thrilled that we're here right now. |
I see no purpose in the universe, from science, and that doesn't depress me. That just means we should make the most of our brief moment in the sun. | i see no purpose in the universe from science and, that doesn't depress. me, that just means we should make the most of our, brief moment in the | I see no, purpose in the universe, from. science and that. doesn't depress me That just means we should make the most of. our brief moment in the | i see no purpose in the universe, from science, and that doesn't depress me. that just means we should make the most of our brief moment in the sun. |
We have a question here from a listener who called in asking about both of you, and he's wondering where some of your ideas come from, and he gave us this little phone clip. | we have a question here from a listener who called in asking about both. of you and he's wondering, where some of your ideas come; from and he gave, us this, little phone | We have a question here from a listener who; called; in asking about both of you and he's wondering where some of your ideas come from and he gave us this little phone | we have a question here from a listener who called in asking about both of you, and he's wondering where some of your ideas come from, and he gave us this little phone clip. |
Hello, this is Kiron in Galway. And my question is to both Cormac McCarthy and Werner Herzog. And both of you have created works of art in which the universe is depicted as harsh, unforgiving and indifferent to human concerns. To what extent is such a vision shaped by scientific ideas? And does complexity science offer us a different view of our place in the universe? | hello this is kiron in galway and my question is to both cormac mccarthy and werner herzog and both of you have created. works of art in, which the universe is depicted as harsh unforgiving and indifferent to human; concerns to what extent is. such, a vision shaped by scientific ideas? and, does complexity. science, offer us a different, view of our place in, the | Hello this is Kiron in Galway And my question is to both Cormac McCarthy and Werner Herzog And both of. you have created works of art in which the universe is depicted as harsh unforgiving and indifferent to human concerns To what; extent is such a vision shaped by scientific, ideas? And does complexity science offer us, a different view of our, place in the | hello, this is kiron in galway. and my question is to both cormac mccarthy and werner herzog. and both of you have created works of art in which the universe is depicted as harsh, unforgiving and indifferent to human concerns. to what extent is such a vision shaped by scientific ideas? and does complexity science offer us a different view of our place in the universe? |
There you go. Cormac, what is complexity science? | there you go cormac what is complexity. | There you go Cormac what is complexity | there you go. cormac, what is complexity science? |
Well, we talked about that coming over. I don't think you can ask any 10 people in science what complexity is and get a consistent view. I'm not going to go into it. The Santa Fe Institute basically deals with complexity in different disciplines. And there is a common thread to it, but it's kind of hard to come up with something that would satisfy everybody. | well we talked about that coming over i don't think you can ask any 10 people in science what complexity is, and get a consistent view i'm not going to, go into it the santa fe institute basically deals with complexity in different disciplines, and there is a common thread to, it but it's, kind of hard to come up with something that would satisfy | Well. we. talked about that. coming over I don't think; you, can ask any 10 people in science what complexity is and get a consistent view, I'm not. going to go into it The Santa Fe Institute, basically deals with complexity in different, disciplines And there is a common thread. to it, but it's kind of hard to come up with something that would. satisfy | well, we talked about that coming over. i don't think you can ask any 10 people in science what complexity is and get a consistent view. i'm not going to go into it. the santa fe institute basically deals with complexity in different disciplines. and there is a common thread to it, but it's kind of hard to come up with something that would satisfy everybody. |
As far as being - as far as painting the world as grim, I don't know. If you look at classical literature, the core of literature is the idea of tragedy, and that's - you know, you don't really learn much from the good things that happen to you. | as, far as being - as far as painting the world as. grim i; don't know if you look at classical literature, the core of literature is, the idea of tragedy and that's - you know you don't, really learn much from the good things that happen to | As far. as being - as far as painting. the world as grim I don't know If you look at classical. literature the core of literature is; the idea of tragedy and that's - you know you don't really learn much from the good things that, happen to | as far as being - as far as painting the world as grim, i don't know. if you look at classical literature, the core of literature is the idea of tragedy, and that's - you know, you don't really learn much from the good things that happen to you. |
But tragedy is at the core of human experience, and it's what we have to deal with. That's what makes life difficult, and that's what we know about. It's what we want to know how to deal with. It's unavoidable. There's nothing you can do to forestall it. So how do you deal with it? And all classical literature has to do with things that happen to people they really rather hadn't. | but tragedy is at the core of human experience and it's, what. we have to deal. with that's what makes life difficult and that's what we know about it's what we want to know how to. deal with it's unavoidable there's nothing you can. do. to forestall it so how do you deal with it? and all classical literature has to do with things that, happen to people they really, rather | But tragedy is at. the core of human experience and it's what we have to deal with, That's what makes life difficult and that's what we know about It's what we want to know. how to deal with It's unavoidable There's nothing you can do to forestall it So how do you deal with it? And all classical literature has to do with things. that happen to people they really. rather | but tragedy is at the core of human experience, and it's what we have to deal with. that's what makes life difficult, and that's what we know about. it's what we want to know how to deal with. it's unavoidable. there's nothing you can do to forestall it. so how do you deal with it? and all classical literature has to do with things that happen to people they really rather hadn't. |
Werner, let's talk about your latest film, "Cave of Forgotten Dreams." | werner let's talk, about your latest film "cave of forgotten | Werner let's talk about your latest film "Cave of, Forgotten, | werner, let's talk about your latest film, "cave of forgotten dreams." |
Well, I'd like to answer the question. | well i'd like to answer the | Well I'd like to answer the | well, i'd like to answer the question. |
Oh sure. | oh, | Oh | oh sure. |
Part of the question first because there was an interesting aspect in it at the end. Our place in the universe, well, it is here. And that's the place we have and nothing else. Everything else is unfriendly. We cannot flee from our planet, I mean go to any other planet in the solar system. It's just not inviting. | part. of the question first because there was an interesting aspect in it at the end our place in the universe well it is here and that's the place we have. and nothing else everything else. is unfriendly we, cannot flee from our planet i. mean go to any other planet in the solar system it's just not | Part of the question first because there was, an interesting aspect in it at the end Our place in the universe well it is here And that's the place we have and nothing else Everything else is unfriendly We cannot flee from our planet I mean go to any other, planet, in the solar system. It's just not | part of the question first because there was an interesting aspect in it at the end. our place in the universe, well, it is here. and that's the place we have and nothing else. everything else is unfriendly. we cannot flee from our planet, i mean go to any other planet in the solar system. it's just not inviting. |
And the next planet from there, the next star out there, is only four and a half light-years away, but with the fastest speed, we can never reach so far. It would take 110,000 years just to go there, hundreds and hundreds of generations. They wouldnt even know where they were going. | and the; next planet from there the next, star out there is only four and a half light-years away but with the fastest. speed we can never reach so far it would take 110,000 years just to go there hundreds and hundreds. of generations they wouldnt, even know where they were | And, the next planet from there the next star out there is only four and, a half light-years away but with the fastest speed we can never reach so far It would take 110,000 years just to go there hundreds and, hundreds of generations They wouldnt even know where they were | and the next planet from there, the next star out there, is only four and a half light-years away, but with the fastest speed, we can never reach so far. it would take 110,000 years just to go there, hundreds and hundreds of generations. they wouldnt even know where they were going. |
There would be incest and madness and murder and whatever en route. So it's not pleasant to move. And Lawrence, I hope you agree. We cannot dissolve into particles of light, like in "Star Trek"... | there, would be incest and madness and murder and whatever en route, so it's not pleasant to move and lawrence i hope you agree we cannot dissolve into, particles of light like in "star | There would be incest and madness and murder and whatever en route So it's not pleasant to move And Lawrence I. hope you, agree. We cannot dissolve into particles of light like in "Star | there would be incest and madness and murder and whatever en route. so it's not pleasant to move. and lawrence, i hope you agree. we cannot dissolve into particles of light, like in "star trek"... |
Absolutely. | absolutely. |
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...and beam ourselves somewhere. | ...and beam ourselves | ...and beam ourselves | ...and beam ourselves somewhere. |
I wish we could. Every time I'm in an airport terminal, I wish I could. | i wish we could every time i'm, in an airport terminal i wish i. | I wish, we could Every time I'm in an airport terminal I wish I | i wish we could. every time i'm in an airport terminal, i wish i could. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
This is our place, this is our place, and we'd better take care of it. And sometimes, of course, you can be disgruntled. In a way, for example, I've worked in the jungle, and after real hardship I came to the conclusion: Yes, I love the jungle, however against my better judgment. But... | this is our place this is our place and we'd better take, care of. it and, sometimes, of. course; you can be disgruntled in a way for example i've worked in the jungle, and after real hardship i came to the conclusion: yes i love the jungle however against my better judgment | This is our place this is our place and we'd. better take. care of it And. sometimes of course you can be disgruntled In a way for; example. I've worked in the jungle and after real hardship I, came to the conclusion: Yes I love the jungle however against my better, judgment | this is our place, this is our place, and we'd better take care of it. and sometimes, of course, you can be disgruntled. in a way, for example, i've worked in the jungle, and after real hardship i came to the conclusion: yes, i love the jungle, however against my better judgment. but... |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
Well, your new film shows the triumph of the human experience. | well your new film shows the triumph of the human | Well your new film shows. the; triumph of the human | well, your new film shows the triumph of the human experience. |
It does, yes, because yes, because you have to imagine that only 73, 74 thousand years ago a gigantic volcanic explosion took place in Sumatra, which almost wiped out the entire human race. That was the so-called bottleneck, still disputed among scientists. | it does yes; because yes because you have to imagine that only 73, 74 thousand years ago a gigantic volcanic explosion took. place in sumatra which almost wiped out the entire, human race that was the so-called bottleneck still disputed among | It does yes because yes because. you have to imagine that only 73, 74 thousand years ago a gigantic volcanic explosion took place in Sumatra which almost wiped out the entire human race That was the so-called bottleneck still disputed among | it does, yes, because yes, because you have to imagine that only 73, 74 thousand years ago a gigantic volcanic explosion took place in sumatra, which almost wiped out the entire human race. that was the so-called bottleneck, still disputed among scientists. |
But the population, the number of human beings shrank to under 10,000, maybe only 2,000, started to recover, and then, of course, there was the Ice Age, you have to imagine 35,000 years ago. So almost all of Europe was covered by ice, the Alp mountains under 3,000 meters, which means 9,000 feet, of ice. | but the population. the number. of human beings shrank to. under 10,000, maybe only. 2,000, started to recover and then of course there was the ice age you have to imagine. 35,000 years ago so almost all of europe was covered by ice the alp mountains under 3,000 meters which means. 9,000 feet of | But the population the number of human beings. shrank, to under 10,000, maybe only 2,000, started to recover and then, of course there was the Ice Age you have to imagine 35,000 years ago So almost all of Europe was covered by ice the Alp mountains under 3,000 meters which means 9,000 feet, of | but the population, the number of human beings shrank to under 10,000, maybe only 2,000, started to recover, and then, of course, there was the ice age, you have to imagine 35,000 years ago. so almost all of europe was covered by ice, the alp mountains under 3,000 meters, which means 9,000 feet, of ice. |
Further north, ice had bound so much water that you could walk as a hunter from Paris to London dry - because the level of the ocean was 100 meters lower. So you could walk across the British Islands. | further north ice had bound so much water that you could walk as a hunter from paris to london dry - because the level of the ocean was 100 meters, lower so you could walk across the british | Further north ice had bound so much water that you could walk as, a hunter from. Paris. to London dry - because the level of the ocean was 100 meters lower So; you could walk across the British | further north, ice had bound so much water that you could walk as a hunter from paris to london dry - because the level of the ocean was 100 meters lower. so you could walk across the british islands. |
And a completely, utterly different world, and yet this world, which was filled with wooly rhinos, mammoths, lions in southern France, all of a sudden shows us this is where we came from, where our spirit, our nature, modern humans all began. | and a completely utterly different. world and yet; this world which was filled with wooly rhinos mammoths lions in southern france all of a, sudden shows us this is where we came from; where our spirit our. nature. modern humans all | And a completely utterly different world and yet this world which was filled with wooly rhinos mammoths lions in southern France all of a sudden shows us this is where we came from where our spirit our nature modern humans all | and a completely, utterly different world, and yet this world, which was filled with wooly rhinos, mammoths, lions in southern france, all of a sudden shows us this is where we came from, where our spirit, our nature, modern humans all began. |
Well, you know, I want to jump in because there's an - we're going to have a panel before Werner's film with Curtis Marion(ph), here at ASU, who's actually one of the people who studied that bottleneck and is leading a program to try and understand the origin of modern humans. | well you know i want to jump in because there's an - we're going to have a, panel before werner's film with curtis marion(ph), here at asu who's actually. one. of the people who studied that bottleneck and is; leading a program to try and understand the origin. of modern | Well you, know I want to jump in because there's an - we're going to have a; panel before Werner's film with Curtis Marion(ph), here at ASU who's actually one of the people who studied that bottleneck and is, leading a program to try and understand the origin of, modern | well, you know, i want to jump in because there's an - we're going to have a panel before werner's film with curtis marion(ph), here at asu, who's actually one of the people who studied that bottleneck and is leading a program to try and understand the origin of modern humans. |
And what does it mean to be modern? And we actually had a meeting about that. And it's not even clear - it's not even clear what makes modern humans unique. And trying to - and getting this direct window on humans 30,000 years ago is just fascinating. | and, what does it mean to be modern? and we actually had a meeting about that and it's not, even clear - it's not even clear what makes modern humans unique and trying to - and getting this direct window on humans 30,000 years ago is just | And what does it, mean to be modern? And we. actually had a meeting about that And it's not even clear - it's not even clear what makes modern, humans unique And trying to - and. getting, this direct window on humans 30,000 years ago is just | and what does it mean to be modern? and we actually had a meeting about that. and it's not even clear - it's not even clear what makes modern humans unique. and trying to - and getting this direct window on humans 30,000 years ago is just fascinating. |
I saw the movie, and it - I had no idea of the level of cultural development at that time. It's just amazing. | i, saw the movie and it - i had no idea, of, the, level of cultural development at that time it's just | I saw the movie and it - I had no, idea of the level of; cultural development at that time It's just | i saw the movie, and it - i had no idea of the level of cultural development at that time. it's just amazing. |
Neanderthals were not cultured. They were not modern. And they apparently perished. It's pretty much established that we have a small percentage of our genes. Maybe three percent, still disputed, might be Neanderthal. | neanderthals were, not cultured they. were not modern and they apparently perished it's pretty, much established, that we. have a small percentage of our genes, maybe three percent still disputed might be | Neanderthals were not cultured They were not. modern And they apparently perished It's, pretty much established that we. have a small percentage of our. genes Maybe three percent still disputed might be | neanderthals were not cultured. they were not modern. and they apparently perished. it's pretty much established that we have a small percentage of our genes. maybe three percent, still disputed, might be neanderthal. |
Maybe the Neanderthal men went out to snatch away Homo sapiens, women, and have fornication, and we got some genes. And they were hunted down by superior hunters. | maybe the neanderthal men went out to snatch away homo sapiens women and have fornication and we got some genes and they were hunted down by, superior | Maybe the Neanderthal men went out to snatch away Homo sapiens women and have, fornication and we got some genes And they were hunted down by superior | maybe the neanderthal men went out to snatch away homo sapiens, women, and have fornication, and we got some genes. and they were hunted down by superior hunters. |
I've often wondered, though. Do you think it's - if it's true, and I still don't know if we know whether Neanderthals had culture, because I think there's some burial sites where Neanderthals do have some flowers in a burial site, but if they do... | i've often wondered though; do you think it's - if it's true; and i still, don't know if we know whether neanderthals had culture because i think, there's some burial sites where neanderthals do have some flowers in, a burial site but if they | I've often wondered though, Do you think it's - if it's true and I still don't know if we know whether Neanderthals had culture because I think there's some burial. sites where Neanderthals do have some flowers in a burial site but if they | i've often wondered, though. do you think it's - if it's true, and i still don't know if we know whether neanderthals had culture, because i think there's some burial sites where neanderthals do have some flowers in a burial site, but if they do... |
Well, it could have been pollen findings. It could have been anything. | well it could have been pollen findings it could have been | Well. it could have, been pollen findings It could have been; | well, it could have been pollen findings. it could have been anything. |
It could've been. But the question is - I wonder whether - I've often wondered whether it was positive for us that we seem to have culture or negative? Would we have been - you know, we seem to have survived, but is that an accident, or... | it could've been but the question is - i, wonder, whether. - i've often wondered whether it was. positive for us that we seem to have culture or negative? would we have been - you know we, seem to have survived but is that an accident | It could've been But the question is - I wonder whether - I've often wondered whether it was positive for, us that we seem to have, culture or negative? Would, we have. been - you know we seem to, have survived but is that an accident | it could've been. but the question is - i wonder whether - i've often wondered whether it was positive for us that we seem to have culture or negative? would we have been - you know, we seem to have survived, but is that an accident, or... |
And this has gone way beyond anything that Michael Jackson ever did. | and this has gone way, beyond anything that michael jackson ever | And this has gone way beyond anything that Michael Jackson ever | and this has gone way beyond anything that michael jackson ever did. |
No, I would like to be in the existence of culture - and technology, by the way. I'm not against technology. And it's mindboggling how 35,000 years ago ivory flute was made. It was actually carved out of the tusk of a mammoth, as thin as a pencil, then spliced in half with a flint stone, then hollowed out and glued back together. And, of course, you have the finger holes. And the finger holes are so precisely placed that you have pentatonic tonality, as today. | no i, would like to be in the existence of culture - and technology by the way i'm not, against technology and it's mindboggling how 35,000 years ago ivory flute was made it was actually carved out of the tusk of a mammoth, as thin as a pencil then spliced in half, with a, flint stone then hollowed out and glued back together and of course you have the; finger holes and the finger holes are so precisely placed that you have pentatonic tonality as | No I would; like to be in the existence of culture - and technology by the way; I'm not, against technology And it's, mindboggling how 35,000 years, ago ivory flute was made It was actually carved out of the tusk of; a; mammoth as thin as, a pencil then spliced in half, with a flint stone then hollowed out and glued back together And of course you have the. finger holes And the finger holes are so precisely placed that. you have pentatonic tonality, as | no, i would like to be in the existence of culture - and technology, by the way. i'm not against technology. and it's mindboggling how 35,000 years ago ivory flute was made. it was actually carved out of the tusk of a mammoth, as thin as a pencil, then spliced in half with a flint stone, then hollowed out and glued back together. and, of course, you have the finger holes. and the finger holes are so precisely placed that you have pentatonic tonality, as today. |
Wow. | wow. |
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Cormac, did you want to jump in there, say something? | cormac did you want to jump in there say | Cormac did you want, to jump in there say | cormac, did you want to jump in there, say something? |
Well, the interesting thing about the caves to me is the longevity of this school of art. The oldest the oldest we know of, by no means are we to therefore say that the Chauvet caves are the oldest there are -they're just the oldest we've seen. | well the interesting; thing. about. the caves. to me is the longevity of this school of. art the oldest, the oldest we, know of by no means are we to therefore, say that the. chauvet caves are; the oldest there are -they're just the oldest we've | Well the interesting. thing about the caves to me is the longevity of this school of art The oldest the oldest we know of by no means are we to therefore say that the Chauvet caves are the oldest. there are -they're; just the oldest, we've | well, the interesting thing about the caves to me is the longevity of this school of art. the oldest the oldest we know of, by no means are we to therefore say that the chauvet caves are the oldest there are -they're just the oldest we've seen. |
But going back 32,000 years, and then you come all the way up through the Magdalenian Period to 11,000 years ago, this is 20,000 years. And the paintings are - they're the same. The perspectives that they use, the style that they use, the things that they use to show, for instance, that a leg of an animal is narrow in the fore view than the rear view is disconnected it from the body, all of these things persevered. | but going back 32,000 years and then you come all the way up through the magdalenian period to 11,000 years ago this is 20,000 years. and the paintings are - they're. the same the perspectives that they use the style that they, use the, things that they use to show for, instance that a leg of. an animal is narrow in. the fore view than the, rear. view is disconnected it from, the body all. of these things | But going back 32,000 years and then. you come all the way up through the Magdalenian Period to. 11,000 years ago this is 20,000 years And, the paintings are - they're the same The perspectives, that they use the. style that they use the things that they use to show for instance that a leg of an animal is narrow in the fore view, than the rear view is disconnected it from the body all of these things | but going back 32,000 years, and then you come all the way up through the magdalenian period to 11,000 years ago, this is 20,000 years. and the paintings are - they're the same. the perspectives that they use, the style that they use, the things that they use to show, for instance, that a leg of an animal is narrow in the fore view than the rear view is disconnected it from the body, all of these things persevered. |
And if you look at the - if you look at the cave paintings at Chauvet, they're really just the same: the same school of thought, the same school of art, the same type of work. That's astonishing that you could have a school of art unchanged for 20,000 years. I've never heard anybody's view about that. I would be interested to know what the people who've studied this, what they think about that. Obviously, there's a culture here. Artifacts come from cultures. You have to have the culture first and, obviously, there is a very strong, a very rich culture that endured for thousands and thousands of years, and nobody seems to know anything about it. I think that's astonishing. | and if you look at the - if you look at the cave paintings at chauvet they're, really, just the same: the same. school of thought. the same school of art the same type of work that's, astonishing that you could have a school of art unchanged for 20,000 years i've never heard anybody's, view. about that i would be interested to know what the, people who've studied this what they think about that obviously there's a. culture. here artifacts come from cultures you, have to have the culture first and obviously there is a. very strong a very rich culture that endured for thousands and thousands of years and nobody seems to know anything about it i think that's | And if you look, at the - if you look at the cave paintings at Chauvet they're really just the same: the same school of thought the same school of art the same type of work. That's astonishing, that you could have a school, of art unchanged for, 20,000 years I've never. heard anybody's view about that I would be; interested to know what the people who've studied this what, they think about that Obviously there's a culture here Artifacts; come from cultures You have to have the culture first, and obviously there is, a very strong a very rich. culture that endured for thousands and thousands of years and nobody seems to know anything about it I think that's, | and if you look at the - if you look at the cave paintings at chauvet, they're really just the same: the same school of thought, the same school of art, the same type of work. that's astonishing that you could have a school of art unchanged for 20,000 years. i've never heard anybody's view about that. i would be interested to know what the people who've studied this, what they think about that. obviously, there's a culture here. artifacts come from cultures. you have to have the culture first and, obviously, there is a very strong, a very rich culture that endured for thousands and thousands of years, and nobody seems to know anything about it. i think that's astonishing. |
Then you see - when you get to the earliest so-called cities, communities like Caltalhoyuk, the first thing you see are paintings of bulls on the walls. They're not as good, were already in a state of decline, but that's amazing. That's just amazing. | then, you see - when you get, to. the, earliest. so-called cities communities like, caltalhoyuk the first thing you see are paintings of bulls on the walls they're not as, good were already in, a state of decline but that's amazing that's just | Then you see - when you get, to the earliest so-called. cities communities. like Caltalhoyuk the first thing you see are, paintings of bulls on the. walls They're not, as good were already in a state of decline but that's amazing That's just | then you see - when you get to the earliest so-called cities, communities like caltalhoyuk, the first thing you see are paintings of bulls on the walls. they're not as good, were already in a state of decline, but that's amazing. that's just amazing. |
Mm-hmm. | mm-hmm. |
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One of the things that amaze me - and I don't know if Werner wants to comment either - I - that's surprised me - I was picking on that - was in this particular cave there's evidence that the art was added to over 5,000-year period, right? And that's just amazing to me, think back 5,000 years from now, what has persisted over that amount of time. | one of the things that amaze me - and i don't know if werner wants to comment either - i - that's surprised me - i was picking on that - was in this particular cave there's evidence that the art was added to over 5,000-year period right? and that's just amazing to, me think back 5,000 years from now what has persisted over that amount of | One of the things; that amaze me - and I don't know if Werner wants to, comment either - I - that's surprised me - I was picking on, that - was in this particular cave there's evidence that the art was. added to over 5,000-year period; right? And that's just amazing to me think back 5,000 years from now what has persisted. over that amount of | one of the things that amaze me - and i don't know if werner wants to comment either - i - that's surprised me - i was picking on that - was in this particular cave there's evidence that the art was added to over 5,000-year period, right? and that's just amazing to me, think back 5,000 years from now, what has persisted over that amount of time. |
Yeah. Well, it's even was stunning because through radiocarbon dating, we can be fairly precise in dating, for example, a charcoal painting. | yeah well it's, even was stunning because through radiocarbon dating we can be. fairly precise in dating for example a charcoal | Yeah Well it's, even was stunning because. through radiocarbon dating we can, be fairly precise in dating for, example, a charcoal | yeah. well, it's even was stunning because through radiocarbon dating, we can be fairly precise in dating, for example, a charcoal painting. |
Mm-hmm. | mm-hmm. |
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And you have a case where a painter depicted a reindeer, somebody completed the picture, and it's established 5,000 years later. This is completely mindboggling. | and, you have a. case where, a painter depicted a reindeer, somebody completed the picture and it's established 5,000 years later this is completely | And you have a case where a painter depicted a reindeer somebody completed. the. picture and it's established 5,000 years later This is completely | and you have a case where a painter depicted a reindeer, somebody completed the picture, and it's established 5,000 years later. this is completely mindboggling. |
The other thing... | the other | The other | the other thing... |
The absence of notion of time. | the absence of notion of | The absence of notion of | the absence of notion of time. |
The other thing that people don't seemed to talk about is - you know, you didn't just suddenly go into a cave and start painting bulls. You had to learn how to do it somewhere. So obviously, there was a school of painting and this was probably done in the open air and people were trained to be painters. And - by the time they were allowed to go into the caves and actually make a painting on a wall in the cave, guess what, they were pretty good painters. And no one has found any traces of inept work. | the other thing that people don't seemed to talk about is - you know you didn't just suddenly go into a cave and start painting, bulls you had to learn how to do it somewhere so obviously there was a school of painting and this was probably. done. in the open air and people were trained to be painters and - by the time. they were allowed to. go into the caves and actually make a painting on a wall in the cave, guess what they were. pretty good painters. and no one has found any traces of inept, | The other, thing that people don't seemed to talk, about is - you know you didn't. just, suddenly go into a cave and start painting bulls You had to learn how to do it somewhere. So obviously there was, a school of painting and this was probably done in the open air and, people were trained to be painters And - by the time they were allowed to go into the caves and actually make a, painting on a wall in the cave guess what they were pretty good, painters And no, one has found any traces of inept | the other thing that people don't seemed to talk about is - you know, you didn't just suddenly go into a cave and start painting bulls. you had to learn how to do it somewhere. so obviously, there was a school of painting and this was probably done in the open air and people were trained to be painters. and - by the time they were allowed to go into the caves and actually make a painting on a wall in the cave, guess what, they were pretty good painters. and no one has found any traces of inept work. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
Yeah. (Unintelligible). I have been puzzled by one thing that's in Altamira in Northern Spain, in the Pyrenees, the wonderful bison. And there's one crouching bison, which is very significant in the tablet. A clay tablet was found with basically - I mean, a small - let's say, five inches across in diameter - and it has exactly the same figuration - configuration of legs and crouching. So my question to the scientists was, could it be that there was some sort of a basic pattern and a traveling artist would move from place to place, because in other caves this type of bison crouching was found as well? Of course, it's - we don't have an answer. | yeah (unintelligible). i. have been puzzled, by one thing that's in altamira in northern spain in, the pyrenees the wonderful bison and there's one crouching bison which is very significant in the tablet a clay tablet was found with basically, - i mean a small - let's say five, inches across in diameter - and it has exactly the same figuration - configuration of legs and crouching so my question to the scientists was could it be that there, was some sort of a basic pattern and a traveling artist would move from place to place because in other caves, this type of bison crouching was, found as well? of course it's - we don't have an | Yeah (Unintelligible). I have been puzzled by one thing. that's, in Altamira in Northern Spain in the Pyrenees the wonderful. bison And there's one crouching bison which is very significant in the tablet A clay tablet was found with basically - I mean a. small - let's say five inches, across in diameter - and it has exactly the same figuration - configuration of legs and crouching So my. question to the. scientists was could it be that there was some sort of a, basic pattern and a traveling artist would move from place to place because in other caves this. type of bison crouching was found as well? Of course it's, - we don't have an | yeah. (unintelligible). i have been puzzled by one thing that's in altamira in northern spain, in the pyrenees, the wonderful bison. and there's one crouching bison, which is very significant in the tablet. a clay tablet was found with basically - i mean, a small - let's say, five inches across in diameter - and it has exactly the same figuration - configuration of legs and crouching. so my question to the scientists was, could it be that there was some sort of a basic pattern and a traveling artist would move from place to place, because in other caves this type of bison crouching was found as well? of course, it's - we don't have an answer. |
He'd had to travel a long way. | he'd had to travel a long | He'd had to travel, a long, | he'd had to travel a long way. |
It would be too (unintelligible). Yes. | it would be too | It would be too | it would be too (unintelligible). yes. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite. of | (soundbite of laughter) |
We're talking about science in the arts and the culture this hour on SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR, talking with Werner Herzog, Cormac McCarthy and Lawrence Krauss. Our number, 1-800-989-8255. | we're talking about science in the arts and the, culture this hour on science friday. from npr talking with werner herzog, cormac mccarthy and lawrence krauss our number | We're talking, about science in the arts and the culture this hour; on SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR talking with Werner Herzog Cormac McCarthy and Lawrence Krauss Our number | we're talking about science in the arts and the culture this hour on science friday from npr, talking with werner herzog, cormac mccarthy and lawrence krauss. our number, 1-800-989-8255. |
It's interesting, these caves at Chauvet, it was - it's a fascinating documentary, Werner. It's just terrific. I didn't get to see it in 3D, but I understand there's a 3D version of it. | it's interesting these caves at chauvet it was - it's, a fascinating. documentary werner it's just; terrific i didn't get to see it in 3d but i understand there's a 3d version of | It's interesting these caves at Chauvet it, was - it's a fascinating documentary Werner It's. just terrific I didn't get to see it in 3D but I understand there's a, 3D version of | it's interesting, these caves at chauvet, it was - it's a fascinating documentary, werner. it's just terrific. i didn't get to see it in 3d, but i understand there's a 3d version of it. |
Well, it's imperative to see it in 3D. | well it's imperative to see it in | Well it's imperative to see it in, | well, it's imperative to see it in 3d. |
Yeah. I'm... | yeah | Yeah | yeah. i'm... |
It was shot in 3D and should be seen in 3D if possible. | it was shot in 3d and should be seen in. 3d if | It was shot in 3D and should be seen in 3D if | it was shot in 3d and should be seen in 3d if possible. |
Yeah. But you talked about the cave drawing technique in there. And one of the fascinating illustrations in the cave is the attempt by the artist to show the animals moving - in movement. | yeah but you talked about the cave drawing, technique in there and one of the fascinating illustrations in the cave is the attempt by, the, artist to show the; animals moving - in | Yeah But you talked about the, cave drawing technique in there And one of, the, fascinating illustrations in the cave is the attempt by the artist to show the animals moving - in | yeah. but you talked about the cave drawing technique in there. and one of the fascinating illustrations in the cave is the attempt by the artist to show the animals moving - in movement. |
Yes. There's a galloping bison depicted with eight legs. Then, there's a rhino, a wooly rhino, and you see eight phases of movement forward, almost like a proto-animation film. In a way, it's kind of really stunning to see that. | yes there's a galloping bison depicted with eight legs. then there's a rhino. a wooly rhino and you see eight phases of movement forward almost like a proto-animation film in a way. it's kind of really stunning. to see | Yes There's a galloping bison depicted with eight legs Then there's a rhino a wooly rhino and you, see eight. phases of movement forward almost like a proto-animation. film In a, way it's kind. of, really; stunning to see | yes. there's a galloping bison depicted with eight legs. then, there's a rhino, a wooly rhino, and you see eight phases of movement forward, almost like a proto-animation film. in a way, it's kind of really stunning to see that. |
Another thing that is unusual is how the species depicted change over time. The Chauvet caves are unusual and they do show predators, particularly lions. By the time we get to Lascaux and the caves where the paintings were done 15,000 years ago, there are almost no predators. There's a - there are a couple of bears. I think there's a wolf somewhere. | another thing that is unusual is how the species depicted change over time the chauvet caves are unusual and they do show predators particularly lions by the time we get to lascaux and the caves. where the, paintings were done 15,000 years ago there are almost no predators there's a, - there are a couple; of bears i think there's a wolf | Another thing that is unusual is how the. species depicted change over. time The, Chauvet caves are unusual and they do show predators, particularly lions By the time. we get to. Lascaux and the caves where the paintings were done 15,000 years ago there are, almost no predators There's a - there are a couple of bears I think there's a wolf. | another thing that is unusual is how the species depicted change over time. the chauvet caves are unusual and they do show predators, particularly lions. by the time we get to lascaux and the caves where the paintings were done 15,000 years ago, there are almost no predators. there's a - there are a couple of bears. i think there's a wolf somewhere. |
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