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Robpike.io - gouggoug
http://robpike.io/
======
notdonspaulding
Wondered how this was working and it appears to just leave your connection
open and continuously send a response of poo.
Here's a toy Node.js server that does the same thing:
[https://gist.github.com/donspaulding/224edec0232d13e32f33](https://gist.github.com/donspaulding/224edec0232d13e32f33)
------
quadrature
What am I looking at here ?
~~~
bryanrasmussen
shit? I guess, that's what I saw and then I closed the tab.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
A mathematical trick allows people to scatter their computer files - eru
http://www.economist.com/science/tm/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12081445
======
jlouis
Reed-Solomon coding is an old fella. Whenever you have a link which is
unreliable and you can't afford to retransmit packets on the link when errors
are introduced, RS is your friend. Mobile phones are among the prime users of
this.
If I remember correctly, the PAR/PAR2 formats used on usenet is using RS-
encoding as well.
An alternative would be to plot the file in N-dimensional space and define a
set of vectors to pinpoint it. When you have enough vectors you have the
precise pinpoint. Additional vectors gives the error-correction capability.
Some microsoft guys played with this idea for Bittorrent-like networks a while
back. But there is a disadvantage in the time it takes to decode the data, and
it probably doesn't help the swarm that much :/
Another interesting viewpoint: We might need RS-encoding on the _local_
harddisks soon (implemented in hardware or software), as it would circument
the bit-error rate problem with those disks.
~~~
newt0311
What I am wondering about is how much faster TCP could be with RS for recovery
instead of the current resend-packet technique.
~~~
jws
I would guess it would be slower and you would break the internet. You would
have to introduce enough redundancy to cope with the worst tolerable loss rate
which would increase the number of bits to transmit. Worse, it is the noticing
of dropped packets that tells TCP to slow down and decongest a link. If enough
senders fail to decongest then packet loss on the congested links skyrockets
wasting bandwidth elsewhere and doing silly things like favoring the sender
with the biggest pipe.
~~~
wmf
Obviously you can't just eliminate congestion control, and the coding rate
should be adaptive to reduce overhead.
At least one startup has gone broke on this idea already, but maybe it's
possible to do it right.
------
Herring
The economist doing error correction codes?? Are you guys _sure_ the LHC
didn't do anything to the universe?
~~~
fgimenez
I'm not sure whether I'm excited that this was in the economist, or pissed off
that they reduced error correction codes to "a mathematical trick"
------
secorp
We have an open source project <http://allmydata.org> that has been doing this
for quite awhile. I'm also involved in the commercial side which does online
storage and we've been running a business on a P2P backend (nice low costs)
with non-peer clients. We tried a business model with a full peer grid and
users were extremely uncomfortable storing "data" from other people on their
computers. Possibly the market is better educated now and/or more used to this
idea, but it may be a hard sell.
------
zandorg
We learned about a Hamming distance at University. But I could never figure
out when what or why it should be used. It was either predicting the future,
or just sending more bits to compensate for error.
But what if you get errors in the new bits? It's daft.
~~~
pmjordan
Beyond a certain error rate, you will definitely end up with bad data. The
point is, with error detecting or correcting codes, you're introducing
redundancy by encoding the information into more bits than minimally required
to represent that information.
The simplest form is adding a parity bit, which allows you to detect (not
correct) up to one bad bit. (so, say 1/8 bits or 12.5% if you store a byte of
information in 9 bits)
Using R-S codes you can crank up the number of bits used for encoding, which
also drives up your error tolerance. Plus, in addition to detecting errors,
you can even correct them. So it doesn't matter if some bits come up bad (or
missing) - the redundancy is spread equally across _all_ of the
transmitted/stored bits, so it's irrelevant which bits suffer from the
failure. There aren't any "old" or "new" bits.
------
louislouis
Erm.. I see tons of comments about the 'maths trick' behind the tech.. but
have any of you tried out the app cos it's really amazing! A great idea, great
execution. If this gets the news coverage it deserves then this could be huge
I think.
------
PStamatiou
Even if this is all worked out to be amazingly effective.. how are you going
to convince regular users to put their data on other peoples' computers?
Yes, I realize that it's all put into chunks so people won't be able to snoop
on them, but just try getting that concept past my mom.
It's neat but I'd rather my data on my encrypted and fast S3 account.
~~~
orib
Why is S3 different? "My data is on other people's machines" is still the case
there. Encrypt it before you send out the blocks, and you're exactly where S3
is.
------
eru
The anonymous p2p-project Freenet does similar forward error correction ---
and did it for ages.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The format of strings in early (pre-C) Unix - fcambus
https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/unix/UnixEarlyStrings
======
Thomas_Lord
Slightly off topic. The article doesn't call it out but there's a lovely
assembly hack here. In:
bec 1f / branch if no error
jsr r5,error / error in file name
<Input not found\n\0>; .even
sys exit
jsr calls a subroutine passing the return address in register 5. The routine
error interprets the return address as a pointer to the string.
r5 is incremented in a loop, outputing one character at a time. When the null
is found, it's time to return.
The instructions used to return from "error:" aren't shown but there is a
subtlety here, I think.
".even" after the string constant assures that the next instruction, "sys
exit", to which "error:" is supposed to return, is aligned on an even address.
By implication, the return sequence in "error:" just be sure to increment r5,
if r5 is odd. I am guessing something like the pseudo-code:
inc r5
and r5, fffe
ret r5
~~~
ksherlock
Yep!
[http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-
bin/utree.pl?file=V1/sh.s](http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-
bin/utree.pl?file=V1/sh.s)
error:
...
inc r5 / inc r5 to point to return
bic $1,r5 / make it even
~~~
Thomas_Lord
Thanks! Nifty!
------
kazinator
After skimming through this, I navigated around this Chris Siebelmann's site
with the forward and back links, discovering something way more interesting
than Unix strings and refreshingly relevant:
"How I do per-address blocklists with Exim"
[https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/EximPerUse...](https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/EximPerUserBlocklists)
I run Exim, and I'm also a huge believer in blocking spam at the SMTP level,
and also do some things globally that should perhaps be per-user. I'm eagerly
interested in everything this fellow has to say.
~~~
username223
I've followed his site for awhile, and he seems like a thoughtful person who
likes to document his reasoning. I'm not a sysadmin, so I don't care about a
lot of what he writes, but he's worth reading for stuff I care about. For
example, he's pretty astute about the "how" and "why" of spam.
------
coupdejarnac
I was hoping to read something juicy like null termination was created by a
summer intern.
~~~
tomrod
Nope! Only time-wasting and mind-engaging software like solitaire.
~~~
ghrifter
So am I overachieving by trying to learn React+Flux and Angular.js +
typescript and also trying to learn ASP.NET 5 MVC 6 while working my
internship?
Maybe I should just make HTML 5 games instead...
~~~
alayne
I don't know a less blunt way to say this, but the tools you use are usually
not as important as the software you write. It sounds like you're more
focussed on padding your resume with buzzwords. Try to work on writing an
interesting application.
~~~
kbart
If you aimed to land on a job in a big company, "Padding your resume with
buzzwords" is not that bad, because HR people filter CV's from the pile using
these same keywords. Not that I say it's a good practice..
------
holmak
I have seen it claimed that null-terminated strings were encouraged by the
instruction sets of the time -- that some instruction sets make null-
terminated sequences easier to handle than length-prefixed ones. The article's
error-message-printing code snippet is a good example. Does anyone think there
is any truth to this?
~~~
toast0
Null terminated is going to be nice in most instruction sets, you don't need
to keep track of a count, so you save a register, and you have one less thing
to increment (or decrement). Loop condition is basically free too, loading the
next byte into a register is going to set the status register, so you don't
need a compare, you can just branch if the zero flag is set.
As long as you are handling good data, it's clearly more efficient.
~~~
Zardoz84
Also, null-terminated arrays are used for other stuff that not are strings.
For example : [https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-String-
Utility-...](https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-String-Utility-
Functions.html#g-strsplit) returns an null terminated array of strings.
~~~
Buge
argv is a null-terminated array of string.
------
derefr
I always felt like NUL-termination, newline-separation, and (eventually) UTF-8
were all sort of complementary ideas: they all take as an axiom that strings
are fundamentally streams, not random-access buffers; and they all separate
the space of single-byte coding units, by simple one-bitwise-instruction-
differentiable means, into multiple lexical token types.
Taking all three together, you end up with the conception of a "string" as a
serialized bitstring encoding a sequence of four _lexical_ types: a NUL type
(like the EOF "character" in a STL stream), an ASCII control-code type (or a
set of individual control codes as types, if you like), a set of UTF-8
"beginning of rune" types for each possible rune length, a "byte continuing
rune" type, and an ASCII-printable type. (You then feed this stream into
another lexer to put the rune-segment-tokens together into rune-tokens.)
In the end, it's not a surprise that all of these components were effectively
from a single coherent design, thought up by Ken Thompson. It's a bit annoying
that each part ended up introduced as part of a separate project, though: NULs
with Unix, gets() with C, and runes with Plan 9.
One of the pleasant things about Go's string support, I think, it that was an
opportunity for Ken to express the entirety of his string semantics as a
single ADT type. That part of the compiler is quite lovely.
------
emmelaich
How else would you implement them, seriously.
You have two choices, counted or terminated.
_Counted_ places a complexity burden at the lowest level of coding.
With _terminated_ you still have the option of implementing strings with
structs or arrays with counts or anything.
And people did of course. Many many different implementations of safe strings
exist in C; the fact that none have won out _vindicates_ the decision to use
sentinel termination.
------
bitwize
One of the worst programming ideas ever dates bavk even earlier than we
thought.
If only Dennis had had the foresight to nip that one in the bud...
~~~
marvy
what's your better idea? (hint: this has to work in assembly language.)
~~~
xenadu02
Strings and arrays begin with one pointer-sized word that indicates the size
of the string/array, thus making all the various mutant versions of functions
that work with them unnecessary. And eliminate the requirement to specify
length separately when passing as a function argument. And make bounds-
checking trivial. And almost entirely eliminate buffer overflows.
This would naturally want malloc to know the type and count, eg: char[] x =
malloc(char[], 100). That means no opportunity to screw it up (let the
compiler turn that into the sizeof math to pass to the actual allocator).
If bounds checking is a performance bottleneck you could turn it off with
compiler flags; that's not a valid argument against it.
But hey... all the various buffer overflows, RCEs, and various exploits are
totally worth the minor performance gains /sarcasm.
~~~
kbob
I don't think you appreciate the zeitgeist. People were building complex
systems: compilers, operating systems, databases, numerical simulations, and
worse in machines with less memory than an Arduino. Adding a byte to every
string was widely viewed as madness.
~~~
atemerev
Yes, of course. The only problem is that now my iPhone is more performant than
top supercomputer was then, but this ugly hack with strings is still there,
alive and kicking.
And even then — one byte of memory could be nothing compared to CPU overhead.
Or maybe not — RAM was insanely expensive these days.
~~~
brrt
But you're comparing apples and pears. This 'ugly hack' is - for obvious
reasons - not what 90% of software on your iPhone is actually using to
manipulate strings. Instead, the ugly hack known as NSString tidily wraps the
char buffer, its byte-length, possibly an offset - most application developers
never deal with null-terminated strings!
So in other words, I don't really understand why you are arguing for replacing
a standard - one that works well for its purposes, mind you - with another
when this has in fact already happened. And even less I understand why you are
trying to frame a good and sound engineering decision as somehow a mistake?
------
castell
The predecessor of Unix, Multics was written in PL/1 and was very innovative
(modern OS still borrow "new ideas"):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multics)
------
jamesfmilne
That was anti-climatic.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Norwegian Method of Tunneling (2012) - JimmyM
http://www.tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-Sep12-NMT-definition.php
======
dstyrb
I wish there was a way to put the text in the middle of my screen.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How we get high availability with Elasticsearch and Ruby on Rails - konklone
https://18f.gsa.gov/2016/04/08/how-we-get-high-availability-with-elasticsearch-and-ruby-on-rails/
======
shockzzz
I have no idea why the phrase "high availability" is in this post.
~~~
mburns
>We call these extensions "high availability" because this approach means that
re-indexing a production system can happen much faster, reducing downtime for
our users.
Agree with their use of the term or not, they give you their reasoning at the
end of the article.
~~~
shockzzz
That's crazy misleading. This is just a post saying, "hey, this is a way to
sync data faster." Awesome! Much kudos.
But stale data isn't "downtime." This is tech marketing at like, MongoDB
level.
~~~
ma2rten
Except it's not marketing from the vendor in question. This is a page by the
US government.
------
serguzest
"27 reports per second" what?
I use bulk api with .net Nest client.
I can easily put 1000 documents per second (which also include 3-10 nested
documents) with 4core i5 machine. Serialization is the cheapest operation in
my case. I would blame ruby in your workflow.
~~~
xentronium
Seriously depends on the structure of the documents and your analyzer setup. I
agree that it should be in hundreds recs per sec though.
------
acehyzer
Elasticsearch is awesome. It may be a good idea to use the bulk API that is
built into elasticsearch, use some joins in your SQL query, and index more
than just one record at a time. In the implementation I have, I batched my
query to 50,000 records at a time that then index into elasticsearch. For the
2.7 million records I indexed this week, it took a total of 54 queries to the
database (50,000 records returned at a time). Just one more idea to streamline
your indexing without slamming your DB quite so hard.
~~~
brndn
I started using elasticsearch recently and I was wondering, does the indexing
happen in real time during the index request? How do you know how long the
indexing process takes?
~~~
chrisatumd
There's an index.refresh_interval setting. It defaults to 1s, so by default
your data will be available for querying within one second after being
indexed.
~~~
nemo44x
In general, yes. But keep in mind that the Elasticsearch JVM GC could fire up
right after the document is indexed and possibly run for a few seconds if
there is a lot of memory pressure. When the GC is done Elasticsearch will
continue to process queries but it may be the indexed data hasn't been
refreshed yet. So, a query run "1 second" after the index operation may not in
fact return the document. However, this would be a very rare case.
------
sqlcook
I've indexed ~ 1 million docs a second, but with proper routing, can probably
even 5x that. Total cluster size was 50 terabytes, at the end.
~~~
true_religion
How many machines did you have on the cluster?
~~~
sqlcook
100 data nodes
basically if you want fast ingress, keep shards small, once they get past
~5-10gb , ingress significantly slows down. Also this was on ES 1.5 , have not
tested latest 2.0+ builds
~~~
sandGorgon
I assume you are also replicating your nodes...how does replication impact
ingress? What happens when nodes exceed 10 GB? Do you split them?
~~~
sqlcook
if you want the fastest ingress, disable replica until your ingress is done,
its faster to create replica at the end of ETL for that given index. Also, you
want to disable auto allocation as well, this will disable shard movement
during ingress, re-enable it afterwards.
on a 100 node cluster i had roughly 500GB on each node. this was not a single
index, multiple indexes, with roughly 8 shards per index per node. Shard count
is pretty important to get correct.
I did not manually control document routing (it was hard based on the type of
data i was ingressing), so it was set to auto and during the load i observed
hotspots in the cluster (you have to look at BULK thread/queue length), some
nodes were getting burst of docs while others were idle, roughly 40-50% of the
nodes in the cluster were under utilized, and maybe 5-10% had hot spots from
time to time.
Also, depending what you use to push data in, (I used ES hadoop plugin) , you
have to account for shard segment merges, which literally pause ingress for a
brief moment and merge segments in a given shard. You have to set retry to -1
(infinite) and retry delay to something like a second or two, otherwise you
will end up with dropped documents.
~~~
sandGorgon
this is brilliant ! if you had your ES and hadoop config somewhere it would be
awesome
------
IndianAstronaut
Is this sort of parallelism also doable with Solr as well?
~~~
brightball
I don't see why it wouldn't be. The main differentiator between Solr and
Elastic Search is that ES handles constant incoming data more consistently, so
it's a much better fit for realtime scenarios.
Just batch loading the data one time shouldn't create much of a problem for
Solr either.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: Cyberspace — an iOS browser that fits in your workflow - quanganhdo
I posted about my Cyberspace web browser back in November, and received tons of helpful feedback from HN users. My third release is out today, and I'd love to hear your take on it: http://cyberspaceapp.com<p>If you haven't heard about Cyberspace, and don't bother to open the aforementioned link, here is a rough idea of what it does:<p>1/ Cyberspace is built for easy reading on mobile devices, with ad blocking enabled by default, text-only mode, Readability bookmarklet support, and shutup.css integration to hide most non-sensical comments you may encounter.<p>2/ Cyberspace aims to fit into your workflow. If you use any of these services, you'll feel right at home: Instapaper, Read It Later, Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, Posterous, Delicious, Pinboard, Zootool, Evernote, and Google Reader. Sharing any content to such services takes no effort, be it links, images or text.<p>Don't like to share things? You're welcome to use the built-in scratchpad to store notes and ideas collected when you're browsing. Even TextExpander and Markdown syntax support are included so that you can quickly jot stuff down.<p>Use OmniFocus, Pastebot and/or Delibar? Cyberspace supports sending content to them, too.<p>3/ Cyberspace is COOL. DuckDuckGo is its default search engine, and Cyberspace automatically gives you !bang syntax suggestions as you type your address. You can also tap-and-hold any text and select Learn more to get Zero-click info from DuckDuckGo.<p>Cyberspace uses tags to manage your bookmarks. Import your Delicious or Pinboard bookmarks into the app and it will let you browse everything by tags. Oh, and you can tap-and-hold on any bookmarklet to add it to your Bookmarks, too.<p>If you have an Instapaper subscription account, you can access your unread items right within Cyberspace.<p>Cyberspace is also the first web browser comes with full TextExpander support and 'Bump to share' feature to quickly share links between your iOS devices.<p>4/...<p>5/...<p>The feature list goes on and on. If you're interested and make it this far, check out my app site: http://cyberspaceapp.com<p>Feedback is always welcome!
======
maze
<http://cyberspaceapp.com>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Plot Against George Soros - coverband
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hnsgrassegger/george-soros-conspiracy-finkelstein-birnbaum-orban-netanyahu
======
identity_zero
There's also a "Plot Against Steve Bannon" but that won't be written on
BuzzFeed because he supports the other side. Both are political strategists
and one should expect "plots against" them.
Not news. Just close minded gossip.
------
Amezarak
I’m skeptical that I should feel any sympathy for billionaires involved in
multinational political projects, whether it’s Soros or the Koch brothers or
anyone else.
The very existence of billionaires able to fund political agendas is extremely
pernicious in any democracy. Money should not buy outsized influence. In my
view, this is one of the most important reasons we need more income equality -
fabulously rich billionaires destabilize society by pushing agendas not in
concert with the middle and lower classes.
When this generates a reaction, instead of realizing it is the exercise of
their power causing problems, they complain about the proles and push back
even harder with the levers of power to silence and suppress the opposition.
------
test001only
The creation of an enemy and blaming them for all the problem seems to be one
of the most successful ways to win election - this has been used in India
since long before. Stirring up people's emotions and pitching them against
each other will result in them fighting each other instead of uniting and
questioning the politicians. Politicians will find and use any difference
between people to split them - cast, religion, language, job, skin colour,
food habits...
There is nothing smart about what the people in the article are doing - they
are just motivated by money and are leaving the world a much worse place for
the next generation.
------
ncmncm
It is not often that you can find textbook examples of pure evil.
As Hannah Arendt noted, they invariably turn out to be, also, banal and
trivial. There is no sweeping vision at work, just a desire for money, and to
stay on the winning side, with no interest in the consequences.
It is actually quite unusual to find people with both high intelligence and
absolutely no desire to leave a better world for their children, but money
always does.
------
offbytwo
buzzfeed lol
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: An ad-free news website with crowdsourced summaries - thekyle
https://news.hoxly.com/
======
thekyle
Hey folks creator here. I often find on sites like HN/Reddit that I tend to
mostly just read the headlines/comments and not necessarily the articles
themselves.
I wanted to build a site that is more aligned with that use case. I was
partially inspired by Wikinews but wanted to lower the barrier to entry for
participation. On Hoxly News, each story is a collection of facts which link
to a source URL. Facts can be independently up/down voted and in aggregate
form a TLDR style summary.
Stories also support a threaded comments section similar to HN.
Instead of ads to fund the site I decided to build a "credit" system where
users purchase credits to perform various activities around the site. You can
read more about that here:
[https://news.hoxly.com/credits](https://news.hoxly.com/credits).
Feedback is appreciated.
~~~
pbasista
> Feedback is appreciated.
Ok. In my opinion:
1\. The UI is unappealing. I would prefer the default theme to be dark.
2\. Site layout resembles generic link aggregating sites with no real content,
which discourages the viewer from exploring the site further.
3\. The boxes with numbers stand out too much among the other content. Thanks
to the fact that they take various amount of space depending on the number's
length, it causes the entire list of articles to appear unaligned.
4\. I was not able to find a link from the main website to the credits link
you have posted. Also, it is unclear how much the credits cost. The purchase
page is only available once you register and log in. In my opinion that is not
transparent at all.
It is also unclear to me why the credits system has been introduced in the
first place. The linked page mentions that it is supposed to "limit spam and
reward quality contributors". It seems to me that the same goal can be
achieved by using upvoting-based reputation system with carefully configured
entry barriers that is already in use at many Stack Exchange sites.
In my opinion, the most reasonable way to cover your website's running costs
is to ask for donations. But it needs to be done in a very transparent way.
For instance, show a chart of real Google Cloud / Amazon AWS bills offset by
donations. People need to be 100% sure that when they donate money to "running
costs", it would not end up being used for something else like your new iPhone
or a vacation in Mexico.
Edit: add line breaks
~~~
thekyle
Thanks for the feedback!
> 1\. The UI is unappealing. I would prefer the default theme to be dark.
I'll see if I can add an optional dark mode.
> 2\. Site layout resembles generic link aggregating sites with no real
> content, which discourages the viewer from exploring the site further.
I'm not really sure what changes could be made that would encourage users to
explore. Could you elaborate?
> 3\. The boxes with numbers stand out too much among the other content.
> Thanks to the fact that they take various amount of space depending on the
> number's length, it causes the entire list of articles to appear unaligned.
Yeah, this is a problem. I think maybe it can be partially solved by
abbreviating 3,000 as 3k, etc.
> 4\. I was not able to find a link from the main website to the credits link
> you have posted. Also, it is unclear how much the credits cost. The purchase
> page is only available once you register and log in. In my opinion that is
> not transparent at all.
Okay, this is something I hadn't even considered. Originally the entire
credits pack actually required authentication to view but I changed that last
minute. I'll see what I can do to make the pricing more transparent.
> In my opinion, the most reasonable way to cover your website's running costs
> is to ask for donations.
I have run websites in the past on the donation model. In my experience it
hits a wall once you have more general web surfers on your site than power
users. Reddit tried the donation model with a transparent meter that showed
the sites costs each day but it eventually had to pivot to ads.
~~~
johnnyfived
A dark mode would definitely be nice, but I think there are some larger UI
improvements that can be done. Some basic ones would be better padding and
spacing for legibility, and making use of the large empty spaces for
additional content. And being able to see the number of comments a post has
without clicking on it is a must.
I really like this project and the credits system in place. If you're open to
the idea I'd be down to collaborate on some of the frontend / design work.
Feel free to message me.
~~~
thekyle
> If you're open to the idea I'd be down to collaborate on some of the
> frontend / design work. Feel free to message me.
Sure, I'd like to hear more if you had some ideas. It doesn't look like your
profile has any contact info, but you can email me: [email protected]
------
rienbdj
I really like this. it cuts out the padding most articles have very
effectively. Can anyone post links? How automated is the fact extraction?
~~~
thekyle
Yes anyone can post links/facts assuming they have an account with at least
one credit.
When you submit a story you can specify an initial seed source which will be
summarized using the gensim summarization module and used to prepopulate the
facts section. If gensim isn't able to generate a summary then we just use the
headline of the linked article as the first fact.
After that, facts can be added manually by adding some text (max 160 chars)
with an accompanied source URL.
Gensim:
[https://radimrehurek.com/gensim/summarization/summariser.htm...](https://radimrehurek.com/gensim/summarization/summariser.html)
------
kfk
This is interesting, how do the summaries work? By the way I have just added a
“salesforce buys tableau” article and the summary of my source link doesn’t
seem to work.
Here: [https://news.hoxly.com/story/165](https://news.hoxly.com/story/165)
~~~
thekyle
When you submit a source url we try to download and parse it using the
Newspaper python library then use the Gensim summarization module to create a
summary.
Sometimes it doesn't quite work. In the case of Bloomberg I've noticed that
they aggressively block AWS IPs which is why it says "Are you a robot?".
Newspaper:
[https://newspaper.readthedocs.io/en/latest/](https://newspaper.readthedocs.io/en/latest/)
Gensim:
[https://radimrehurek.com/gensim/summarization/summariser.htm...](https://radimrehurek.com/gensim/summarization/summariser.html)
------
smenis
If you added RSS, I would like to add it to my news site [https://news-
hud.com/](https://news-hud.com/) which has a similar philosophy of cutting
down on cruft.
~~~
thekyle
We have RSS!
[https://news.hoxly.com/search.atom?q=.*](https://news.hoxly.com/search.atom?q=.*)
You can change the query string to whatever you want depending on what type of
news you want.
------
maxheadroom
If you speak Swedish and care about Swedish news, there's a Swedish
equivalent[0].
[0] - [https://nyhetsnotiser.se/nyheter/](https://nyhetsnotiser.se/nyheter/)
~~~
kreetx
Are those just scraped, or are they curated somehow?
~~~
maxheadroom
They have synopses and linked/related articles ("Relaterade Nyheter")[0] from
different news sources and their archive goes back a year[1].
Given this, I'd be inclined to believe that it's curated. _However_ , I
haven't studied it enough to verify if news links > x months are added as
"related news" to current news articles.
[0] - [https://nyhetsnotiser.se/ekonomi/merkels-eftertradare_-
ecb-s...](https://nyhetsnotiser.se/ekonomi/merkels-eftertradare_-ecb-skapar-
problem-for-smasparare/1201918)
[1] - [https://nyhetsnotiser.se/arkiv/](https://nyhetsnotiser.se/arkiv/)
------
mellosouls
Excellent, clean minimalist UI that seems to work without JavaScript on first
recce - unlike some of the projects showcased here.
Just the thing for my text browser.
Bookmarked!
------
founderling
Tried to create an account. When I try the activation link, it gives me a 500.
When I try to login, it sends me back to the login page.
Requested a password reset. Reset my password. Login page still sends me back
to the login page every time I try to log in.
Ha! Figured it out! I cannot login with my email. Need to use my "username".
That is an unusual choice.
Which tech stack did you build this with?
~~~
thekyle
> When I try the activation link, it gives me a 500
That should not be happening I'll have to look into it.
> Which tech stack did you build this with?
It's Django with registration powered by Django registration.
Django registration: [https://django-
registration.readthedocs.io/en/3.0.1/](https://django-
registration.readthedocs.io/en/3.0.1/)
------
Pamar
Looks interesting, but I have a question: who provides the titles and who (if
anyone) can edit them?
I ask because one of the top news is "Facebook launches _it 's_ own currency"
(instead of "its") which I find a bit grating/unprofessional.
This, in turn, would make me question the sources.
Edit: typo
~~~
thekyle
You're right that's a typo. I've fixed it manually in the database.
To answer your questions, the titles are provided by whoever submits the story
to the site. It's up to that person whether to use a title from an article
they found or come up with their own. There are some guidelines for that here:
[https://news.hoxly.com/guidelines](https://news.hoxly.com/guidelines).
As for editing, there is no automatic way for anyone to edit a title once it
has been submitted (I did have an idea for allowing people to submit
alternative titles and vote on them but never got around to it). Obviously
under special circumstances someone with access to the database can edit them.
------
tyzerdak
What stack do you use?
~~~
thekyle
It's Django running on AWS Lambda. The frontend is done in Bootstrap MD. No
other JS besides the Bootstrap stuff and some handwritten.
Django: [https://www.djangoproject.com/](https://www.djangoproject.com/)
Bootstrap MD: [https://mdbootstrap.com/](https://mdbootstrap.com/)
------
indalo
Love the idea and execution! How do you deal with repetitious fact/links being
added to an article?
good luck!
~~~
thekyle
I don't think having the same fact submitted multiple times from different
sources is necessarily a problem. The voting mechanism on the facts should
cause the version of the fact with the most reputable source to rise to the
top.
------
Cub3
Love the idea!
Would be cool if you supported left and right arrow keys to quick navigate to
next / prev article
And because there's not that much content you could probably preload it
------
tomcam
Love this idea, and the implementation. Well done.
------
amelius
Very nice! Perhaps you can join forces with HN. I'd love to see this idea
implemented here.
By the way, would HN allow bots to post summaries?
~~~
detaro
Someone made a bot to post automated summaries from their site a while back
and quickly got told to stop.
------
below43
Have you considered adding categories?
~~~
thekyle
I have been thinking a lot about how to implement a categories type feature.
Right now the closest thing is "Filters" which allow you to basically follow
keywords and customize your homepage based on what text appears in the
headlines. Kinda like Google News alerts.
Right now, I'm thinking maybe it would be good to add tags to stories which
would reduce some of the problems with filters.
------
brylie
Will you consider making the project open source?
~~~
masukomi
if it were open source I would have submitted a fix for the alignment css
issue. ;)
I don't see a good argument for NOT making it open source. The value of sites
like this is not the code so much as the community that builds up around a
particular instance of it (witness all the open source HN clones that don't
detract from the value of HN at all).
Even if other folks created their own instances they'd still need to build up
their own communities, which is fine, because, for example, we don't really
want cute kitten posts here on HN but totally on a clone dedicated to cute
animals.
------
macpete
I wonder what the business model is?
~~~
thekyle
You can read about the business model here:
[https://news.hoxly.com/credits](https://news.hoxly.com/credits)
------
lolptdr
A feature idea: intentionally include fake news links or fake facts (that you
verified are fake of course) and add them to the website as you see fit. This
will hopefully reduce bots and ill-mannered actors.
~~~
technothrasher
This sounds like the tried and true method of defeating a schoolyard bully by
punching yourself in the face before the bully can!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Take A Trip into the Future on the Electronic Superhighway (1993) - iamelgringo
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,978216-1,00.html
======
izaidi
"The same system will allow anybody with a camcorder to distribute videos to
the world -- a development that could open the floodgates to a wave of new
filmmaking talent or a deluge of truly awful home movies."
~~~
maudineormsby
So Time magazine predicted youtube...
Took me a couple minutes to realize that the article assumes that all of this
would essentially happen with and through the Cable companies and that a TV-
like interface would be a dominant part of it.
Amazing how much the standards have changed. Amazing that YouTube is
acceptable for most people, when 15 years ago they were predicting HD style
content.
~~~
anigbrowl
In fairness, HD is gradually enroaching on online video; to some extent, it's
been a matter of waiting for the cameras to catch up and become affordable for
more than a few. I go to YouTube mainly for music videos now, whereas anything
creative tends to appear on Vimeo first.
------
pcof
Pretty accurate, as far as predictive articles go (even "very near-future
predictive articles"). Funnily conservative sometimes - it never sees the "all
of them, for free" option ahead.
------
locopati
Even more predictions on the future...
ATT's You Will <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZb0avfQme8>
MCI's No More There <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJhRPBJPoO0>
------
RyanMcGreal
And hulu.com _still_ doesn't work in Canada. Grrr.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Facebook Privacy Policy Vote Fail - sparknlaunch
http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1112551484/lack-of-participation-makes-facebook-privacy-policy-vote-non-binding/
======
kitsune_
What a load of horse shit. Who has actually heard of this vote taking place?
If you require 30% of your user base to participate, for it to have a binding
verdict, you better market this with a flashy banner on the top of every page.
~~~
Deestan
I pop into Facebook daily, and have not noticed anything.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
Ditto.
------
nikcub
This wasn't promoted well enough. I consider myself a bit of a Facebook
privacy advocate and would have liked to have helped promote this, but I
hadn't even heard of it until the vote was over.
It seems to be getting a lot more coverage as a failure than it did as an
idea.
------
ErrantX
The "vote" was mostly a load of crap. But I do have one issue:
_is if they had liked the Site Governance page and therefore seen updates
from that page; if one of their friends voted and clicked a box to send an
update to their profile’s news feed; or if they happened to notice a promo for
the vote that was mixed in with the ads on the right side of the page… I never
saw a promo, but that’s because I ignore the small ads and other items on the
far right. I suspect most people do._
I was notified via a massive box at the top of my news feed - one that spanned
the whole feed and had a big call to action.
------
majani
Facebook need to get real with that voter requirement. Asking 270million to
come out and vote would require them to be rallied through a presidential-
level campaign with TV ads, fund-raising dinners and all. I think 5-10 million
or thereabouts would be a more reasonable number, considering the biggest
pages in the world are slightly above that.
~~~
sparknlaunch
If the vote actually meant something to Facebook, they would have asked every
active user at login to vote?
~~~
setrofim_
Yup. This looks like it was just a PR stunt. An attempt to show the users that
FB are "listening" to them. And if that's the case, then it seems to have
backfired.
------
luchs
Here in Germany, the voting was announced in the TV news (I remember seeing it
in the 'heute journal' and 'Tagesschau').
------
farnsworth
There was a vote? I've never heard of this issue and I consider myself
somewhat well informed in tech current events.
------
gyardley
Of course Facebook didn't promote this properly. It's not in Facebook's
interest to promote this properly.
Those of you who care about this sort of thing should be asking yourselves why
the Facebook privacy advocates didn't or couldn't promote this properly on
their own - after all, the sharing mechanisms built into Facebook work pretty
well. That's the far more interesting question here.
~~~
polshaw
Because as a user you can only share with your friends, because 270m people is
an impossibly large number and it would feel not even worth trying, because
people don't like to be spammed repeatedly, because fb has an authority (on
fb) that regular users don't have, because only a fraction of users read blogs
(etc) that might have promoted this, because apathy, because even if the
userbase achieved this impossible feat there would be nothing to stop fb from
just ignoring it.
Enough? Perhaps it should have been better publicised beforehand, but
ultimately it would have been futile anyway.
~~~
gyardley
Of course Facebook can ignore the result / set impossibly high hurdles. It's
Facebook, not a democracy. I'm boggled that they bothered with this thing in
the first place.
We all agree that 270mm people is impossible, but many other things manage to
rack up low numbers of millions of users on Facebook, just from users sharing
with their friends. Why couldn't this one put together, say, a million? Unless
there's something I'm missing, three hundred thousand implies the public
wasn't buying what was being sold.
------
nathan_long
Based on past experience with Facebook privacy policies, I have developed my
own, very effective one: _I do not give Facbook my data_.
------
arihant
So they didn't advertise it well, and now they are planning to implement the
new regulations because of lack of participation?
Facebook is turning out to be an unethical company. This is really
unacceptable behavior from a company I rely for social connections and
sensitive information, including my private messages and contacts.
~~~
bornhuetter
> Facebook is turning out to be an unethical company.
Turning out to be? They've never not been unethical.
------
theorique
"Liked the Site Governance page?"
Sounds like about as big a thrill as C-Span, and with equal level of appeal.
However, I'm sure all 5 people who clicked "Like" on the Site Governance page
also voted.
------
Vivtek
30% of 900 million users, 600 million of which are spam accounts? What a
conveniently impossible number of votes to obtain.
~~~
pbhjpbhj
How do you come by this figure?
They could go for 30% of the number of users that have interacted with another
user in the last week. Yes, that number would include some spam activity.
------
user49598
Saying facebook has 900 million users is like saying no one on earth ever
dies. If we required 30% of every one who ever live to vote, we'd never get
anything done.
------
its_so_on
For what it's worth, when I heard about the vote, I saw that the voter turnout
requirement was absurd (for an online vote on a single service like this) - so
it was obviously a fake 'vote' Facebook didn't really want to happen. Just PR
so they can say, "Well, regarding the privacy policy we did actually put it to
a user vote."
This is the exact result it looked to me like they wanted.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How can I use my software development skills to help people with Cancer? - max0563
I am a childhood cancer survivor myself, and I have recently been trying to find ways that I can use my software engineering skills to help people currently going through the disease.<p>I am wondering if anyone knows of any companies, non-profits, or research groups that could use that kind of help.<p>Cancer treatment is obviously very uncomfortable, costly, and greatly reduces the quality of life for people. Especially children. If I could improve the process in any way using my trade I would like to do so.
======
smt88
I have gone down this rabbithole. Trust me, software is not the bottleneck.
Long story short: make as much money as you can in the private sector and
donate to "open-source" research, i.e. research that is released to the public
domain instead of hoarded by private orgs.
~~~
max0563
Well, that's disappointing. I appreciate this answer though, thank you.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Neural Network Learns to Identify Criminals by Their Faces - doener
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602955/neural-network-learns-to-identify-criminals-by-their-faces/
======
stewbrew
A Nazi's wet dream.
In the submitted article, they say that 10% of the data was used as test data
set. I cannot find that info in the orig article. After skimming through the
paper, it seems to me the reported accuracy results from the 10-fold cross-
validation approach they used - which probably explains the 10% mentioned
above. They should probably have calculated the accuracy with a fresh data
set. It also seems they have a certain false pos rate.
------
ankurdhama
Actually, neural network computed the conditional probability distribution of
the training data.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
North Korean defector fights Pyongyang with thumbdrive-laden balloons - mrmaddog
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/north-korean-defector-fights-pyongyang-with-thumbdrive-laden-balloons/
======
codezero
I have a feeling that almost nobody in North Korea would even know what a USB
drive was, let alone have a computer to read it with. Sending small amounts of
currency/printed text sounds more viable.
~~~
f00_
From what I understand there is actually a lot of penetration from the outside
world, much of which is in the form of entertainment. And the article does
talk about sending pamphlets.
PBS released a documentary about NK in January, a portion of which is with
this guy. [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/secret-state-of-
nort...](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/secret-state-of-north-korea/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Competitively Decentralized Internet - elisk
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1osU8vnuOW1eV3hdYMxg8hDh7E6kZLvf05uKvgYAE6SU/edit?pli=1#
======
bstpierre
It seems ironic that a document that wants to avoid a "small group to have
oligopolistic control" is hosted on Google.
The primary problem with a "completely decentralized internet" seems to be
glossed over in the document. They focus on routing as a central challenge,
but it seems to me that transmission is the elephant in the room. If you're
going to replace the existing internet with something that gets rid of the
oligopoly, you can't ignore the fact that inter- and trans-continental
transmission requires expensive infrastructure. The amount of capital required
necessarily limits the number of market participants.
Sure, you could theoretically communicate across a continent via cooperative
mesh, but the number of hops required to get from, say Virginia to California,
on a cooperative mesh network would be prohibitive. I don't know how you'd
pass packets from Boston to London without some heavyweight capital investment
that seems to imply a very small number of players in the market.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Nyan cat built in 3D with WebGL and three.js - Aissen
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6213850/WebGL/nyanCat/nyan.html
======
tuananh
YES YES
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Musician’s Jamming Software Makes the World a Slightly Better Place - elblanco
http://pavlovskitchen.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/jamming-software/
======
dbEsq
Interesting way for the software developer to engage its users and promote
collaberation.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Show HN: my evening project - "Urgency-Addict"-Style toDo-list - philfrasty
Getting a real productivity-boost from being short on time, I built a mashup of a toDo-application meets built in countdown-timer.<p>Hope it'll be useful to some "urgency-addicted" ;-)<p>Link: http://www.apps.bitsimple.net/urgency-addict/<p>(ps: trying to improve my programming since I have a biz-background only. Built this on angular.js. Any feedback really appreciated!!)
======
philfrasty
Clickable: <http://www.apps.bitsimple.net/urgency-addict/>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
What's the best font for the Web? - tpimental
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/people/robert/200806/1494/
======
tpimental
Sadly, Verdana and Ariel are winning. Sadder still, there aren't any better
options. :-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Data-Driven Flowcharts in R Using DiagrammeR - sonabinu
https://mikeyharper.uk/flowcharts-in-r-using-diagrammer/
======
mbostock
Shameless plug, but here’s a live Graphviz editor in Observable:
[https://beta.observablehq.com/@mbostock/graph-o-
matic](https://beta.observablehq.com/@mbostock/graph-o-matic)
And here’s a demo of dot tagged template literals:
[https://beta.observablehq.com/@mbostock/graphviz](https://beta.observablehq.com/@mbostock/graphviz)
Having Graphviz at your fingertips is fantastic. I use it all the time for
small networks where I don’t want to think too much about the layout and
aesthetics. Here’s an interactive example:
[https://beta.observablehq.com/@mbostock/how-observable-
runs](https://beta.observablehq.com/@mbostock/how-observable-runs)
------
pplonski86
Do you know python alternative for DiagrammeR? I've switched from R to python
5 years ago and dont want to come back
~~~
spinningslate
There's the graphviz lib [0] and also, somewhat confusingly, pygraphviz [1].
They are a bit different though, nicely summarised here [2].
[0]:[https://pypi.org/project/graphviz/](https://pypi.org/project/graphviz/)
[1]:
[https://github.com/pygraphviz/pygraphviz](https://github.com/pygraphviz/pygraphviz)
[2]: [https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37353199/graphviz-vs-
pyg...](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37353199/graphviz-vs-pygraphviz)
------
clircle
Looks nice. I was thinking I may have to learn TikZ to make professional
looking diagrams, but this may do the trick.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cursor:none abuse (trick users into clicking Facebook 'like') - jackshepherd
http://jack-shepherd.co.uk/experiments/Fake-Mouse-Cursor/
======
duopixel
A much more straightforward abuse would be pointer-events: none. Just position
an element over the 'like' button and let clicks pass through it:
<http://jsfiddle.net/rVxTn/>
~~~
jackshepherd
Wow - that is quite amazing. I wonder if that's in use in the wild yet.
Edit: It seems like this is a largely solved problem for Facebook:
[http://forum.developers.facebook.net/viewtopic.php?id=93201&...](http://forum.developers.facebook.net/viewtopic.php?id=93201&p=1)
Could definitely still be a problem for other social/ad/affiliate networks
though.
~~~
elisee
A similar click-jacking trick is used a lot for spreading videos like worms on
Facebook, at least in French. Videos with baiting titles like "How could she
do that?", "I can't believe she did this in front of everyone" and such.
Most people will click just to see what it might be and not miss out. Then the
video player says you have to click on some letters to prove you're not a
robot (clever trick, people don't think much of it because it reminds them of
CAPTCHAs)
The letters actually have Facebook Like button iframes on them with opacity
set to 0. I edited the opacity on one of them with the Chrome Dev tools:
<http://polyprograms.free.fr/tmp/FacebookLikeClickJacking.jpg>
Unknowningly liking the video will create a story in your friends' feeds, who
will in turn click to see and spread it to their friends. No real harm is done
except for the spam and all the ad views generated.
------
Zirro
It should be noted that the NoScript add-on for Firefox prevents this from
working through it's Clickjacking-protection (and possibly a couple of more,
cursor-specific tricks). People need to know that it does more than block
JavaScript.
~~~
joelhaasnoot
What website is useable these days though without Javascript?
~~~
Zirro
Few of the popular ones, but there may be some misconception here. NoScript
isn't meant to be blocking JavaScript for all sites. If you trust a site,
which doesn't function without JavaScript, adding it to the whitelist is one
click away. You get used to it quickly.
And, even in the mode where JavaScript is allowed by default on new sites, the
other protections (Clickjacking, XSS, ABE, etc) still apply.
~~~
moe
It's a little bit like the cookie-situation back when the internets were still
young.
Many people (including myself) would swear by leaving the cookie notification
on and confirming every. single. one. of. them.
That has long stopped being feasible and I assume it will be the same with
NoScript in a few years.
~~~
timmy-turner
Isn't this the fault of a bad UI mixed with bad defaults? I'm using the
Cookieculler FF addon (<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/cookieculler/>) to manage them. Instead of torturing me with
a modal popup for every new site I visit, it keeps a list of hosts and cookies
and trust status in the background. Using that list to protect important but
delete/block all other cookies is quite convenient.
------
epochwolf
Interesting. Chrome's "Under the Hood > Content Settings > Mouse Cursor"
setting doesn't affect this. I would have thought it would prevent this.
Also, stuff like this is why we can't have nice things in browsers. You can't
trust the internet.
~~~
ben0x539
Given what we've been seeing with attack sites, whether shock sites trying to
just DoS the browser or silly tricks like making the browser POST to an irc
server's irc port to spread the malicious URL, or just terrible ads and
tracking that actively slow down the browser and ruin the surfing experience,
I'm amazed that not more people see javascript as a built-in remote code
execution vulnerability that only gains more and more features over time,
sandbox or not. :)
Javascript makes a lot of cool stuff possible, but outside of some heavy-
weight web applications that I have to trust anyway like my webmail interface
or online storage manager, or games where the interactive components are the
only reason why I'm visiting the site to begin with, I'm starting to wonder
whether trusting the internet is not inviting more trouble than it's worth.
Maybe I'm "old-fashioned" but I'd love to go back to all the sites I visit
functioning with just static web content, no clientside scripting at all, and
letting me consume videos and stuff in a trusted media player plugin.
~~~
cs702
By default I have JavaScript blocked on all sites, allowing it only as needed,
case by case, because JavaScript _is_ a remote-code-execution vulnerability of
modern browsers.
More and more of the applications we use and our private data live in the
cloud. We now access our personal files, manage our bank and investment
accounts, and make retail purchases on our web browser.
Browsing the web with JavaScript enabled by default allows code written by
complete strangers to run on your browser!
~~~
driverdan
This shows a general lack of knowledge about how JS and websites work. I can't
just run JS on my site that will steal your bank info. Browsers have cross
domain security policies to prevent this.
There have been various vulnerabilities (especially in IE) but just like any
other software they get fixed.
~~~
cs702
driverdan -- by your logic, it would be OK to give perfect strangers remote-
shell access to one's computer, so long as one takes all the precautions
necessary to protect sensitive files and prevent them from gaining root
access.
Leave aside the various vulnerabilities (including cross-site-scripting ones!)
that get discovered with disturbing frequency, and please consider the subject
of this thread: it's possible to make someone click a "Like" button without
their realizing it! How many other similar tricks can JavaScript be used for
by people with nefarious intentions?
No matter how "safe" any runtime environment is, allowing strangers to execute
arbitrary code on your computer is never a great idea.
This is why I allow JavaScript code to run on my browser only when it comes
from sources I trust.
------
chc
For everyone talking about JavaScript: As far as I can tell, this is
fundamentally a CSS vulnerability. Something quite similar ought to be
possible without JavaScript — it would just be a bit less elegant. For
example, you could just make a pixel grid of divs to simulate mousemove events
and position the fake cursor with CSS hover styles.
~~~
jonny_eh
Sounds plausible (and I'd love to see an example!), but would hardly be worth
the effort if JS would catch 99% of the victims.
------
RandallBrown
I love it. It seems to work fine in Firefox, although the real cursor starts
flashing when it's above the Like button.
~~~
jackshepherd
That's because there's a transparant DIV above the Facebook iFrame, cycling
on/off every few milliseconds. This is required to maintain the fake cursor's
position (without it when the real cursor was over the iFrame the 'fake'
cursor would stop moving).
------
pnewhook
This is brilliant, but now it's only a matter of time until it's in actual
use. Sort of like how evercookie was a clever hack meant to call attention to
privacy concerns, then was put into actual production sites.
~~~
Zirro
Do you have any examples of sites/companies that put the techniques into use
as a direct result of Evercookie exposing them?
EDIT: Why am I being downvoted for this question? I am seriously interested,
so that I can avoid contact with them.
~~~
jackshepherd
I'm not sure if you can say that it's a direct result of Evercookie, but a
number of high profile sites use this kind of tech - for example
KissMetrics.com is used by a number of big companies, and they use ETAG
cookies, Flash cookies - the lot.
~~~
hornbaker
And KissMetrics and their customers caught heat from it:
[http://www.extremetech.com/internet/91966-aol-spotify-
gigaom...](http://www.extremetech.com/internet/91966-aol-spotify-gigaom-etsy-
kissmetrics-sued-over-undeletable-tracking-cookies)
------
superchink
Odd effect. I see two mouse cursors (Mac OS X 10.7.3 + Chrome Dev Channel).
~~~
rplnt
Same in Opera. I'd say it's not supported as it is quite malicious. Another
example that comes to mind is changing the content of clipboard when users
copies something. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOM_events#Microsoft-
specific_e...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOM_events#Microsoft-
specific_events)
------
EmmanuelOga
Speaking about prevention (for the specific case of the like button), I have
privoxy (1) setup to disable fb plugins with rules like these:
{+block{Facebook "like" and similar tracking URLs.}}
www.facebook.com/(extern|plugins)/(login_status|like(box)?|activity|fan)\\.php
{+block{Stupid facebook xd_proxy.php.}}
<http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/connect/xd_proxy.php.*>
The second one also removes an annoyance I see from time to time when I bypass
the proxy which makes the page request again and again that xd_proxy.php file.
If I really want to like something, I disable the proxy and reload the page. I
use Proxy SwitchySharp (2) for chrome to do the setup for me in pages I visit
often.
1: <http://www.privoxy.org/> 2:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dpplabbmogkhghncfb...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dpplabbmogkhghncfbfdeeokoefdjegm)
------
mkopinsky
I tried clicking "Fork me on github" but couldn't because I couldn't position
the real mouse pointer in the right place.
------
jusob
I guess I should use this as an opportunity to remind people of the "Zscaler
Likejacking Prevention" plugin for Firefox/Chrome/Safari/Opera (check the
corresponding add-on stores). I use the setting "Request confirmation for all
Facebook widgets" so that it asked me for confirmation before sending the Like
request.
------
ck2
Good luck faking my inverted extra large windows cursor.
~~~
chrisacky
And I browse without JavaScript, so the CSS style that hid the cursor actually
meant I didn't see any cursor whatsoever.
~~~
SquareWheel
Out of curiosity, aren't 90% of websites broken for you?
~~~
chrisacky
Yes and no. While I browse with JavaScript disabled, I have whitelist. Chrome
v8 has a feature which allows you to prevent execution of scripts from a
particular domain.
I've blacklisted all ad networks from executing and JavaScript but I maintain
a strict whitelist which means that sites such as Facebook, Google, and any
site which I browse and immediately see is broken is added to my whitelist.
When I browse a page, I can have conditional execution of the JS code, meaning
that JS from 3 domains will run, but the 9 tracking JS code from all the ad
networks won't run.
It's like the best of all worlds. Adnetworks can't fingerprint me, and they
have to rely on cookies, plus my browsing is a hell of a lot faster because I
don't have all the unneccessary JS downloading and running.
~~~
SquareWheel
I see, thanks for the great explanation.
I admit the thought that some users aren't using JS concerns me because, while
I try and always build sites with a fallback, it generally results in a lesser
experience. Often fallbacks just aren't possible so I need to remove the
feature altogether.
I bet there's a lot of sites that still work for you, but not quite as well as
if JS were enabled.
~~~
chrisacky
Don't worry about users like me.
Make your content load, but anything above that, users are on their own if
they decide not to enable JavaScript.
In this age, with all of the rich user applications, JS is practically a
requirement.
For my startup, the frontend gracefully fallbacks to a working version for
users.
For the backend, they get a blackscreen saying JS is required. If users are
going to use my application, they should expect to have JS enabled for the
best possible user experience.
Don't worry about it is the upshot!
------
TheMiddleMan
I forked this to use a different exploit which takes advantage of pointer-
events: none.
<https://github.com/Rob-ot/Fake-Mouse-Cursor>
------
smackfu
Cursor:none makes it cleaner, but it's not necessary. You could use a lighter
cursor like cursor:crosshair or cursor:text along with the fake cursor, and I
bet most people will still click using the fake one.
In fact, even if you can't change the cursor at all, you could easily create a
swarm of fake cursors that would frustrate the hell out of the user.
------
justindocanto
I have some input on your todo list:
If you give an id (or class) to your p tag that contains the links you said
you wanted to make easier to click, then you could use css and easily add a
:hover state. Then on the hover state just make the cursor normal so it's
easier to click those links. Upon mouseout the cursor will go back to
'normal'. =)
~~~
jackshepherd
Thanks for that :) I was thinking of perhaps creating an invisible target for
them with the same offset as the FB like/button, so that they could be clicked
with the 'fake' cursor to enhance the effect!
------
cocoflunchy
I don't think I'm getting the desired result... my cursor disappears, and I
all I see is a static one in the top left corner above a cropped "Like" button
(in french though, that may be the problem). See here :
<http://imageshack.us/f/836/28545472.jpg/>
------
natmaster
In Firefox, the cursor flashes above the like button. Still easy to miss, but
certainly not bad as it seems Chrome is.
~~~
sikmajnd
and not to mention the lag when going over "clicky" button in ff
------
drucken
I have NoScript 2.3.1 in Firefox with the default settings, including
Clearclick protection. I have no Facebook account and no scripting is enabled
for this site, including JQuery.
The site is still able to disable my mouse over most of the screen.
Am I the only one?
------
Maro
I use Ghostery to wipe out Facebook showing up elsewhere on the Internet.
<http://www.ghostery.com>
~~~
dybber
Alternative using Adblock: <http://adversity.uk.to/>
------
downandout
Is this news? Likejacking has been around for well over a year. Google it.
------
AznHisoka
Nice, can I use this to trick people into clicking an affiliate link instead?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NYC Police union slashes number of ‘get out of jail free’ cards issued - aaronbrethorst
https://nypost.com/2018/01/21/police-union-slashes-number-of-get-out-of-jail-free-cards-issued/
======
greenyoda
_" The city’s police-officers union is cracking down on the number of “get out
of jail free” courtesy cards distributed to cops to give to family and
friends.
Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association boss Pat Lynch slashed the maximum number
of cards that could be issued to current cops from 30 to 20, and to retirees
from 20 to 10, sources told The Post."_
I think the limit on the number of these cards a cop should have should be
zero. Any cop who gives preferential treatment to a family member of a cop (or
another cop, or a politician, etc.) should be prosecuted for corruption. This
practice really undermines citizens' trust in the police (and in the city
government, which apparently tolerates it).
------
cjbprime
Couldn't tell whether the entire premise of the article is satire. :(
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: I invented this but don't know how to market it. Any suggestions? - adsheltask
http://youtu.be/H1W20rcUxlc
======
anigbrowl
You're going to have a hard time convincing people to use their $500 phone as
a hardware handle. I guess it means carrying only a phone instead of a phone
and a pocketknife, but most people who need a multitool are just going to
carry a SWA or Leatherman.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Simple Dynamic Strings library for C - antirez
https://github.com/antirez/sds
======
dmunoz
I think the library is great, and don't have a whole lot to say about it, but
wanted to mention one tangentially related thing:
The README on this repo is awesome. Opening up with advantages and
disadvantages? Awesome. Plenty of code examples covering all of the major use
cases? Awesome. Quick overview of the internals? AWESOME! Quick two line note
about how to use the library in your project? Awesome.
I'm tempted to rant about how I wish documentation was taken more seriously,
and that programmers seem to make it a point of pride that spending the first
half hour with a library figuring out how to actually use it is just something
we have to deal with as programmers, but I won't do so aside from this single
sentence.
~~~
wting
man pages used to be treated with the same reverence, but nowadays nobody
seems to bother. I have pretty extensive man pages for some of my open source
stuff, but it doesn't seem to help with users downstream.
~~~
deeviant
To be honest, I pretty much hate man pages.
They almost never have examples(Is that some sort of rule?), they have no
"quick summary of the shit you use 95% of the time", and they get generally
written as a novel, seemingly from the perspective of the developer of the
util rather than consumer.
Mind you, I have used man pages many times before, but only because it was the
best source of information, not because it was a particularly efficent one.
The Markdown README of this string library is a thousand times better than any
man page I have seen.
~~~
raverbashing
Man pages are bad but mostly useful
INFO pages on the other hand, are terrible. Is there something _less_
intuitive than the Info reader?
Navigation is awful
I think the RHIDE IDE had a better Info reader, IIRC, that one was useful.
~~~
sdegutis
I'm not sure it was ever meant to be intuitive or easy to use. As far as I can
tell, INFO pages (and much of UNIX) was intended to be a stop-gap solution
until something better and more permanent was written atop them. Unfortunately
that dream was never realized, and Linux's accidental popularity standardized
what was supposed to be a bunch of building blocks. I could be wrong though,
but almost every utility in UNIX screams this to me.
~~~
DougMerritt
INFO is a Richard Stallman thing, it's a GNU thing, it is emphatically NOT a
Unix thing.
Stallman wanted to replace the Unix thing (which was always man pages) with
INFO, and for many years deprecated man pages, which is part of why many _GNU_
man pages are sub-par.
Not that non-GNU man pages are perfect, but still.
As for Unix being intended to be a stop-gap, your impression is simply
historically incorrect, aside from philosophical issues like the claims made
in the infamous Gabriel essay "Worse is Better".
> I could be wrong though, but almost every utility in UNIX screams this to
> me.
Unix/Linux is certainly not perfect, but this simply reflects the truth of
Henry Spencer's aphorism, "Those who don't understand Unix are condemned to
reinvent it, poorly."
People who think Unix got it all wrong, as opposed to merely having assorted
warts, should read Raymond's "Art of Unix Programming".
I was more than a little startled that Raymond captured a lot of the truth of
the subject; it's a good read, and can potentially make anyone a better
programmer.
Edit: a more concise starting point:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy)
~~~
luckydude
+1
Info really sucks compared to decent man pages. Sun did good man pages, go
look at them, they are quite good.
A lot of the man page hate can be traced back to crappy gnu man pages that
were just trying to get you to use info.
Info is cool, it's sort of like a web in text, but it isn't a replacement for
a decently written concise man page.
------
clarry
Mixing signed and unsigned arithmetic operands.
Not doing trivial overflow checking before arithmetic.
Using results from said arithmetic as indices or starting points for memory
writes.
My gut says that any application using this library to process untrusted input
is exploitable.
Of course, it was never advertised as being secure :-)
Which is unusual, as many "better strings" libraries make claims about the
security of the traditional way of string handling (and then go on to do it
wrong).
Edit: To give a concrete example, someone here recommended BString just a few
days ago. That library has a "security statement" in which it claims to
prevent overflow type attacks by _using signed integers instead of size_t_ ,
and then checking whether the result is negative after arithmetic. But signed
overflow is _undefined behavior_ in C, and these are not guaranteed to wrap
around. And yes such things have been exploited. I don't know how likely or
easy bstring is to "own" but in any case it's doinnit wrong.
And yes I checked the code, it does what it claims to do..
~~~
antirez
Hello clarry, I don't think there are APIs that if not grossly misused will
lead to security issues in general. There is one issue I'm aware of that
perhaps is not easily exploitable but surely is unexpected behavior, that is,
overflow when you reach a 2GB string: that requires a check in
sdsMakeRoomFor() for sure.
Note that this could be fixed by using uint64_t type for example in the
header, however in the original incarnation of SDS inside Redis this was not
possible for memory usage concerns. In the standalone library I believe it is
instead a great idea, since 2GB is no longer an acceptable limit.
From the point of view of the security the most concerning function looks like
sdsrange(), there are sanity checks in place to avoid that indexes received
from the outside can lead to issues, but I'll do a security review in the
future in order to formally check for issues.
~~~
eliteraspberrie
If it's any reassurance, I had a look at it, and although there is unnecessary
signed/unsigned arithmetic, I could not find anything exploitable. Change the
types of variables representing an object size, length, array index, and so on
to size_t (from int) and it will be fine.
~~~
asveikau
Might be acceptable for an individual project where you can make statements
about the sizes that will be used ahead of time, but for a general purpose
library your statement is absolutely false. The issue is that your size
requirement can overflow size_t, malloc gets passed a smaller value than you
really intended, then if you try to use what you think you allocated
(remember, it succeeded with a smaller size), it's a derefence outside the
bounds of the allocation. Changing the size or type of the length variable
won't solve that. This is a common and well known vulnerability pattern - it
is disappointing to see folks so dismissive of it.
~~~
eliteraspberrie
I'm aware of arithmetic overflow, thanks. It was the subject of my research
(which will eventually be open source, watch
www.peripetylabs.com/publications/ if you're interested). See my sizeop
library in the meantime:
[https://bitbucket.org/eliteraspberries/sizeop](https://bitbucket.org/eliteraspberries/sizeop)
I am not dismissive of the problem. I just know from experience that the
chances of code like that being fixed at all, let alone correctly, is near
zero.
------
antirez
I forked sds.c from Redis given that it was very useful for the project for
years, so I guess it may be useful in other contexts as well. There are a few
changes at API level compared to the Redis sds.c file, however most of the
work went into documenting it.
------
unwind
Nice, thanks for contributing (even more).
I haven't read much of the code at all, but a minor suggestion would be to
change:
struct sdshdr *sh = (void*)(s-(sizeof(struct sdshdr)));
to
struct sdshdr *sh = (void*)(s-sizeof *sh);
since the entire idea is that the pointer on the left-hand side is to the type
whose size should be subtracted, I think it's better not to repeat the type
but to "lock it" to the pointer instead. This also (of course) means we can
drop the parenthesis with sizeof, since those are only needed when its
argument is a type name.
~~~
simias
Heh, you're the first person I meet who advocates dropping the parens around
the sizeof argument in any situation. That does look terribly alien to me.
~~~
adestefan
sizeof is a unary operator and not a function. Only types need to be enclosed
in parens. Most people don't know this.
~~~
unwind
Exactly! For some reason this anti-pattern is very thoroughly entrenched among
C programmers and it's so very frustrating.
My other favorite is casting the return value of malloc(), something you see a
great deal of and that I always oppose. See
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/605845/do-i-cast-the-
resu...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/605845/do-i-cast-the-result-of-
malloc) for my best arguments.
~~~
Narishma
Casting the return value of malloc is necessary in C++. I think that's why
it's so widespread, so you can compile your C program with a C++ compiler.
------
Marat_Dukhan
This is neat, but please add a pointer to deallocation function to sds header
and use it in sdsfree. This will allow to return sds strings from functions in
shared libraries. A common problem it that the user of the library might use a
different version of libc than the shared library (this is especially typical
on Windows), and when it calls sdsfree on an sds string allocated with a
different libc, something awful will happen (in the best case, it will just
leak memory). By storing a pointer to the deallocation function in the code
which allocated the string you can make sure that it is always released by the
same libc version that allocated it.
------
shadowfox
At some point in time, I found this list of C String libraries with some
comparisons:
[http://www.and.org/vstr/comparison](http://www.and.org/vstr/comparison)
The (different) approaches taken by many of these libraries are interesting.
~~~
emmelaich
A great list.
I'd add the str bits of [http://libslack.org/](http://libslack.org/) to that
list.
------
Aardwolf
The biggest missing thing in C imho is destructors, because you need to
manually clean up everything whenever you leave a scope or function. That
means calling "free" at every exit point.
Or alternatively, putting one "cleanup:" label at the end of the function and
using "goto cleanup;" instead of break or return everywhere.
But goto is considered harmful, so that handy pattern seems unclean.
My question is: do you consider the "goto cleanup" pattern clean or not, and
if not, what are better alternatives?
~~~
antirez
Goto for cleanup is not bad IMHO. I use it extensively...
$ cd redis; grep goto *.c | wc -l 251
All the instances are like:
goto cleanup;
goto error;
goto badfmt;
goto numargserr;
In this context is easy to read and makes the code structure better.
~~~
coherentpony
I don't see the difference between this and
cleanup(state);
error(state);
etc.
Just pull them each out into a function. You're still DRY and don't lose flow
control.
In my honest opinion, there is never a _need_ for goto.
~~~
garenp
In performance critical nested loops, goto is the only way to exit early. A
typical example here is performing a matrix multiply. In cases like this, it
is absolutely necessary, because C doesn't provide a more granular 'break'.
~~~
dllthomas
You could leave nested loops with a condition flag, which could produce
something semantically equivalent to the goto. It seems like the logic here
might be simple enough that the actual check could be eliminated in the
generated code by a Sufficiently Smart Compiler (that could actually exist),
if there was sufficient demand for it. I'm not sure it's actually more
readable, though.
~~~
garenp
Yeah, of course I'm aware, it's just that there is a time/space trade-off, so
I think folks who argue that goto should never be used or has no legitimate
uses, are just taking too much of a hard-line.
And I think it just highlights a lack of understanding about what might make
goto "bad" in programming--IMHO it's "bad" when it makes control flow more
complex, which undermines maintainability. Common "cleanup" idioms that only
jump forward are not that bad, because they _don 't_ make control flow
particularly more difficult to follow. (Whereas jumping backwards, especially
across many state changes, can be very hard to follow.)
~~~
dllthomas
_" it's just that there is a time/space trade-off,"_
I don't see a time-space tradeoff here. Compiled naively, I expect the version
with flags to be slower and take more space. Compiled sufficiently smartly, I
expect them to be equivalent. I expect real compilers to be close enough to
the latter for most but not all purposes, but I think _if the flag version was
more readable and maintainable_ the place to focus (collectively, medium term)
would be on making compilers smart enough. Obviously, in the short term on
specific projects you do what you need to.
_" I think folks who argue that goto should never be used or has no
legitimate uses, are just taking too much of a hard-line."_
I agree, but that's because there are places where use of Go To makes things
more readable and maintainable, not - primarily - because they are actually
_needed_ , per se, even with performance constraints (in the overwhelming
majority of cases).
_' And I think it just highlights a lack of understanding about what might
make goto "bad" in programming--IMHO it's "bad" when it makes control flow
more complex, which undermines maintainability.'_
I agree wholeheartedly.
------
wbond
Recently I've been getting into some C and having programmed in a number of
other languages know enough to be sure I wanted to have a solid understanding
of properly handling encodings and strings in general. I've obtained a good
understanding, but now I am looking to abstract some of the low-level
mechanics. Unfortunately most of the libraries I have seen (such as bstring)
use structs. It was nice to see this approach taken. Thanks for extracting it
and making it easy to find and learn about!
On a related note - does anyone have recommendations for a similar small
library for dealing with conversions from char * to wchar_t * and basic
encoding duties? I'm working cross-platform, and so far I've stitched together
some functions wrapping stuff like wcsrtombs() and WideCharToMultiByte().
------
_paulc
Excellent news - the Redis source code is a really good source of high quality
dependency-free C code and tends to be the first place I look.
Some time ago I forked the SDS code and added a set of additional utility
functions around this for a project I was working on at the time (basic file
reading, regex, LZF compression, Blowfish encrypt/decrypt, SHA256 etc).
This was from a fairly old SDS version so this looks like a good opportunity
to sync up with the library version.
Repository is here:
[https://github.com/paulchakravarti/sdsutils](https://github.com/paulchakravarti/sdsutils)
------
eis
Disadvantage #1 can be simply solved by using a pointer to the "sds" type
instead.
Then you can be sure that
sdscat(&s, "Some more data")
updates s to always point at the right memory address and you can't introduce
hard to find bugs by forgetting to assign to s which the compiler wont warn
you about. If you'd pass just "s" instead of "&s" as the first parameter, the
compiler would error out.
So all functions modifying the string should take a pointer to it.
------
sdegutis
My biggest gripe with C's string functions is that it's really easy to make
off-by-one errors when trying to do anything with two strings, due to NUL and
the way they seem to handle it inconsistently. I'm constantly having to check
the docs for any given string function to find out how it handles NUL (which
isn't always in an obvious spot thanks to the design of man pages). And once
I've found it, I have to come up with some contrived example that usually
needs to be written in a comment just to make sure I've used its intended
algorithm correctly and didn't cause an off-by-one error. If this library
hides all that for me, I'm sold.
------
FooBarWidget
Sigh, another string library. And this is the reason why I prefer C++ over C.
You don't end up writing _another_ string library for the 300th time. There
aren't that many differences between string libraries anyway. Most of them are
just structs with a pointer to a memory block, plus a length field.
~~~
antirez
Yep, but this one has not the usual layout of struct+pointer (that's the whole
point), and I'm not sure it qualifies as "yet another" since it was written in
2006.
~~~
pacaro
It appears to me to be "yet another" because the length before the string
approach is usually referred to as a b-string.
windows (for example) has had a comprehensive b-string library (type is called
BSTR) for about 20 years - due to it's age and provenance it has the downside
of thinking a character is a 16-bit value...
~~~
shadowfox
Just to add a reference to the parent:
[http://www.johndcook.com/cplusplus_strings.html](http://www.johndcook.com/cplusplus_strings.html)
(The article is mildly interesting by itself)
------
vvde
Making sds a typedef for char* is very convenient. But it makes it very easy
to pass an sds to a function that expects a C string without checking for null
bytes.
Ruby, Java, Perl, PHP have all had security problems when interacting with C
because they failed to properly distinguish binary-safe strings and C strings.
[http://insecure.org/news/P55-07.txt](http://insecure.org/news/P55-07.txt)
[http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/626.html](http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/626.html)
~~~
kzrdude
I'd prefer a typesafe version (that would be a library with a struct type). It
could even be a trivial wrapper struct for the char *.
------
scottlamb
Disadvantage #1 seems unnecessary. Instead of this:
s = sdscat(s,"Some more data");
Why not do this?
sdscat(&s,"Some more data");
The latter would make the use-after-free error they're describing impossible.
(Disadvantage #2, changing one reference but not others, would remain. And
callers would still need to check for NULL if they intend to handle ENOMEM
gracefully.)
I assert there's no meaningful performance difference between the two.
~~~
paraboul
To be consistent between allocation and reallocation (like malloc() and
realloc()).
And you still want to access the old value if reallocation failed.
~~~
scottlamb
> To be consistent between allocation and reallocation (like malloc() and
> realloc()).
Consistency is a tool that is often useful to promote program correctness.
You're suggesting using it to accomplish the reverse.
If it's important aesthetically that all sds operations be consistent in this
regard, you can structure the allocation interface in the same way:
sdserror sdsnew(sds*);
sds mystring = NULL;
sdsnew(&mystring, "Hello World!");
This is a common practice in relatively new interfaces like pthread_create.
> And you still want to access the old value if reallocation failed.
If you want to provide commit-or-rollback semantics, you could signal error
via return value rather than by replacing s with NULL:
if (sdscat(&s,"Some more data") != SDS_SUCCESS) {
/* failure path; s is unchanged */
} else {
/* s now has "Some more data in it" */
}
but this may be completely useless, depending on the environment(s) in which
the library or program is intended to be used. On 64-bit Linux systems with
memory overcommit enabled (the default), this failure path essentially
shouldn't ever happen. Instead, some process (maybe yours, maybe not) will be
picked by the kernel OOM killer. Many programs just use an allocate-or-die
interface, as the sds README mentions.
~~~
paraboul
You're right, I wasn't saying that it's the only way to write
allocation/assignment. I was saying that in that case sdscat() matches with
sdsnew() style.
------
numeromancer
NB: In the following function:
/* Like sdscatpritf() but gets va_list instead of being variadic. */
sds sdscatvprintf(sds s, const char *fmt, va_list ap) {
va_list cpy;
char *buf, *t;
size_t buflen = 16;
while(1) {
buf = malloc(buflen);
if (buf == NULL) return NULL;
buf[buflen-2] = '\0';
va_copy(cpy,ap);
vsnprintf(buf, buflen, fmt, cpy);
va_end(cpy); // <--- add this ----
if (buf[buflen-2] != '\0') {
free(buf);
buflen *= 2;
continue;
}
break;
}
t = sdscat(s, buf);
free(buf);
return t;
}
From the `man va_copy` on my system:
Each invocation of va_copy() must be matched by
a corresponding invocation of va_end() in the same
function.
This is not likely to be a problem in most systems, but it can't hurt to be
formally correct.
~~~
fmela
I think you meant "va_end(ap);".
Created a pull request for you:
[https://github.com/antirez/sds/pull/8](https://github.com/antirez/sds/pull/8)
~~~
numeromancer
No, I'm pretty sure that `va_end(cpy)` is correct. `ap` is the `va_list`
passed into the function. `cpy` is the local copy.
~~~
fmela
You're right. Fixed.
------
gtrubetskoy
I've had the pleasure of getting pretty deep into sds back when I was
tinkering with thredis, and it's definitely very cool.
------
acqq
The CString C++ class from Microsoft's MFC and now also ATL used since forever
the trick of having both the length and the reference counting in the single
allocation with the characters themselves, as well as additional 0-termination
character even if it was initialized with non-zero terminated character.
------
oh_sigh
In the case of disadvantage #1: s = sdscat(s,"Some more data");
You could fix that by adding a "remote pointer" header field. Inside of
sdscat, you would allocate a new sds struct, and set the remote pointer header
field in `s` to the new sds structs location. You could also try to do a
realloc and maybe youll get the same starting pointer back again.
------
mbreese
How much better is this dynamic approach than something like immutable
strings? (not that char* is immutable)
Since with the sds library, you could potentially be getting back a new
pointer for each operation, you could just as easily be working from an
immutable string library. Do immutable strings have poor performance? I've
never really considered it.
------
sparkie
Disadvantage #1 isn't really a disadvantage in modern computing, it's _the
right thing to do._
~~~
aidenn0
I strongly disagree. It is a tradeoff between that and advantages #1 and #3;
with the bstring library, for example, you pass in a mutable string and the
function mutates it.
In no world is passing in a mutable value, having it mutate it, but then
having to reassigning your variable superior.
Passing in an immutable value, and then assigning a fresh value is reasonable,
but that's not what SDS is doing, AFAICT.
I think gcc has some decorations you can have to tell it to never ignore the
return function.
I'm curious why s = sdscat(s,"Some more data"); didin't end up like:
sdscat(&s,"Some more data");
------
angersock
So, this is an interesting approach to strings:
It's basically a malloc()/free() implementation with printf, some formatting,
and strcat bolted onto it. (Strictly speaking, it may or may not use free
lists or whatever, but the use of the header and returned pointer is quite
similar.)
And that's awesome.
------
codys
ustr [1] is another library to consider. It uses a variable sized header to
avoid having large (percentage wise) overhead for short strings.
1: [http://www.and.org/ustr/](http://www.and.org/ustr/)
------
wildmXranat
I remember lifting the 'sds' string implementation from within the redis back
in the day. Thanks antirez
------
wereHamster
How does it compare to strbuf that is used in git?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Congressman introduces bill to end warrantless Stingray surveillance - rcurry
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/04/house-bill-end-warrantless-stingray-surveillance-jason-chaffetz
======
JustSomeNobody
Why aren't there anti-stingray ROMs or apps yet?
In my, admittedly naive, understanding is that cel towers have signatures. For
instance, using Tasker for Android, I can know when I'm near home by the tower
it detects. When the Stingray overpowers that tower, can't I just have a
tasker task or an app or something that would detect that and shut down my
celphone?
*Note: I don't really need this, but if the law wants a tech fight, they should get one.
~~~
kazazes
The existing Android solution only works for Qualcomm chipsets [1], so it must
require some radio-level access to verify the presence of an IMEI device. You
won't be seeing it in the iOS App Store. Maybe someone can find the relevant
private APIs to make it happen.
[http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/12/31/snoopsnit...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/12/31/snoopsnitch_is_an_app_by_the_german_srlabs_that_detects_imsi_catchers_stingrays.html)
~~~
toomuchtodo
Preventing an iPhone from downgrading to 2G (as a user-configurable option)
would solve the problem. 3G/4G/LTE prevents spoofed tower issues.
------
rcurry
I like the idea of a 10 year prison sentence for surveillance of cell phones
without first obtaining an actual warrant.
~~~
roflchoppa
10 years seems to be a long time. How ever i do feel that there needs to be a
way to keep people that work in the public sector under checks that can affect
their personal liberties. it emphasizes the check.
~~~
pdkl95
The specific number of years is a tunable value. Any prison sentence at all
sends an important message about the importance of respecting personal
liberties.
As for the length, a good argument can be made that violations done _under the
color of authority_ [1] should always be punished more severely than "regular"
violations of the law. The people who have the power to enforce the law have
much greater power than the average citizen. Abuse of that greater power
should require a similarly larger punishment.
That said, I have no idea if 10 years is appropriate. If it isn't I'm sure a
better length of time can be negotiated.
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_%28law%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_%28law%29)
~~~
maxerickson
So why not make an abuse of power registry and require people that have been
convicted of abusing power to disclose this fact?
It would also be necessary to have hiring institutions publicize that they are
hiring a power abuser (i.e., if a police chief didn't care about the previous
abuse of power he would still be required to inform the community of the
situation).
Someone running for office would be required to do it to, it'd be great, tack
"I was convicted of blah blah blah" on somewhere near the "I approve this
message".
The above is still a much more substantial punishment than I would want to see
for an average citizen that was eavesdropping on cell phone calls.
~~~
pdkl95
> eavesdropping on cell phone calls
That's not the part that warrants a strong punishment. Jail time is justified
for the abuse of power while acting under the color of law. The particulars
about that abuse (eavesdropping on a cell phone) is less important.
> registry
While this is an interesting idea, I caution strongly against creating any
kind of "registry". The current examples we have seen (e.g. "sex offenders")
has shown how registries dilute important concepts like "innocent until proven
guilty" when presence on the registry doesn't map 1-to-1 with "found guilty
beyond a reasonable doubt".
Even more worrying is the idea that someone should be tainted for life (or "a
long time") for a mistake. Branding people with a modern "scarlet letter" for
their mistakes doesn't create an incentive for that person to change their
behavior[1]. Once someone has "paid their debt to society", they deserve a 2nd
chance that is free of past accusations.
There may be a way to make some aspects of a registry work without these
problems, but I'm haven't seen it.
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBmJay_qdNc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBmJay_qdNc)
("The Truth About Dishonesty")
~~~
scintill76
Another unfortunate thing about the sex offender registry is that it lumps,
e.g., 18-year-olds who had a 17-year-old quasi-consensual partner (whom the
law decrees can't actually consent), together with much worse criminals -- at
least under some jurisdictions' laws. I suppose an abuser-of-power registry
would have similar issues with minor infractors getting too much punishment
because people pay more attention to "he's listed" than to what he actually
did.
------
randomname2
Interestingly Congressman Chaffetz is a Republican, good to see him stand up
for the Bill of Rights rather than give lip service to it.
~~~
acheron
Obviously. If he were a Democrat, since this is something "good", the headline
would have said "Democratic Congressman".
Same as if something bad happens the headline will say "Republican
Congressman" but leave out party affiliation the other way.
Bias in journalism mostly isn't a matter of just making things up (Dan Rather
aside) or injecting blatant opinions into news (though that happens sometimes
too), but a matter of which stories get pushed and how they get framed.
~~~
pstuart
Dan Rather was likely set up. The gist of his story was true: GWB went AWOL
during his "service". Then the media focused on Rather instead of the Bush's
behavior. Karl Rove was a genius manipulator.
~~~
pstuart
[https://theintercept.com/2015/10/27/george-w-bush-was-
awol-b...](https://theintercept.com/2015/10/27/george-w-bush-was-awol-but-
whats-truth-got-to-do-with-it/)
------
discardorama
Why do you even need a bill for this? It's against the Constitution!
~~~
laotzu
>In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the
Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to
render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an
overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. _The means of
defense against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at
home._ Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a
revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the
pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.
-James Madison, Speech, Constitutional Convention (1787-06-29)
------
mtgx
I don't get why scenarios involving FISA are exempt. Stingray surveillance is
a _physically local_ thing - FISA is about spying on foreigners living abroad
- is it not? I mean don't privacy laws apply to foreigners visiting the U.S.,
too?
It seems to have a few too many loopholes for my taste, but I guess it could
eliminate 80% of the abusive uses of Stingrays out there.
~~~
Laaw
Foreigners living abroad communicate with people in the US.
------
notthemessiah
Wouldn't the FISA exemptions for this bill be subject to the same Section 702
loophole that permits PRISM to exist?
------
ck2
I wonder if police will also harass congresspeople, guess we are about to find
out.
~~~
benjarrell
Yes they will, and they already have with this same congressman:
[http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/secret-service-broke-
pri...](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/secret-service-broke-privacy-law-
embarrass-critic-inspector-general-n436541)
------
supergeek133
Wasn't this illegal already? Or no?
~~~
rcurry
It's covered under those more obscure and ambiguous parts of the constitution
that law enforcement has always struggled to understand - you know, like the
1st and 4th amendments.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Padrino 0.10.0 Released Rubinius support, speed and much more Check it out - DAddYEz
http://www.padrinorb.com/blog/padrino-0-10-0-routing-upgrades-rbx-and-jruby-support-and-minor-breaking-changes
======
kaylarose
I find it surprising that Padrino hasn't gained more popularity. For me, it's
perfect for the times when you need something more robust than Sinatra, but
lighter than Rails. (& being Rack-based it's pretty easy to port a project to
either platform if needed).
~~~
kaylarose
IMO impediments to Padrino's success:
\- Mediocre focus on documentation
\- "Marketing"/Evangelism of the project
\- Increased Modularity of Rails3
~~~
nesquena
I would love to hear your take on how we can improve on the first 2 aspects. I
am not too worried about Rails because I use Rails and I use Padrino but
despite the increasing modularity, using Rack/Sinatra/Padrino is a
qualitatively different development experience.
But in terms of the first 2. How can we improve our documentation, please let
me know, we have a bunch of guides <http://www.padrinorb.com/guides> and
decent (I hope) READMEs as well as a written and recorded blog tutorial
screencast. Also Padrino is just Sinatra, so all the Sinatra docs here
<http://www.sinatrarb.com/documentation> <http://sinatra-book.gittr.com/> work
just as well.
How can we be more effective at evangelism?
~~~
Volpe
I think you raised one of the primary issues in your response. "Padrino is
Sinatra", meaning the documentation is split between Sinatra and Padrino.
There isn't primary source for Padrino (similar to Rails Guides). Also
Sinatra's documentation isn't fantastic either, I often find myself jumping
between blog posts, sinatra's website, "the sinatra book" constantly.
Also Rails has a much more mature community with screen casts and blog posts
being produced constantly. That is probably difficult to 'create' short of DHH
style evangelism.
~~~
nesquena
I agree with you that our documentation isn't as thorough as Rails guides but
I would argue that the Padrino guides we do have and the blog tutorial +
screencast are not a bad tool to get started. I recognize though that to get
started with Padrino you do need to have some basic handle on Sinatra. I would
love to improve the beginner's documentation even further and I hope that
Sinatra's docs get better over time as well possibly with our help.
As Florian touches on, Padrino is fundamentally about embracing the power of
modularity. Understanding Rack, Rack Middleware, Sinatra, Padrino and a suite
of chosen tools does ultimately become necessary. However, like Sinatra you
can also learn the basics within 15 minutes. I like to think that
Sinatra/Padrino can grow with you as you need it.
If anyone reading this has any interest in helping us with documentation,
please let us know. Especially if you are a beginner. We are a very open
community and would love some help or even suggestions on how to make our
framework more inviting.
------
minikomi
For many use cases, padrino frequently looks more and more like the "just
right" solution. Great work and look forward to the 1.0 release! Prioritized
routes are a very useful addition.
------
Eleopteryx
I use Padrino exclusively now; it does everything I need while also being
lightweight, fast, and modular.
Since I haven't played with Rails since 3 was in beta, I'm genuinely curious:
from a purely technical standpoint, for what types of projects might Rails be
a better choice than Padrino?
------
Lekesk
Love it, congrats guys one more step to 1.0 and the real alternative to Rails!
Thanks!
------
CesarMe
Only few workds awesome! Fast, simple and riable! W00t
------
Strike
Finally I can forgot RAILS! Finally!!! Rails is riduculous: assets pipeline a
lot of new stuff but... performances? Why it is slower than Rails 2 ? What
mean "merging rails and merb" ? Why on every update I need to rewrite my views
because helpers changed like <%= form be <% form then <%= ??? Thanks community
for give us a real and much valid choice, Padrino is thin and not slow and
havy as Rails.
Thanks!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Stream time-lapse images in minutes from a Raspberry Pi or any other platform - lipis
https://pss-camera.appspot.com/lipis/green-plant/
======
lipis
While you can download the executables for OS X or Windows from the downloads
page, you can also run it from the sources
([https://github.com/lipis/timelapse](https://github.com/lipis/timelapse)) if
you are interested of doing that with Raspberry Pi.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Marketing Recommendations for 2019 from an Industry Insider - standrews
https://outfunnel.com/8-marketing-recommendations-from-industry-insider/
======
visakanv
> If you look at the features pages of providers, most tools appear the same.
> But in practice, there are meaningful differences. Each email-sending tool
> has a different “product DNA”. There’s typically one thing they’re great
> for, and are the other use-cases are often bolted on – which is extremely
> frustrating for users with specific needs.
There's an interesting discussion to be had here about what are the things
exactly that influence "product DNA". I'm guessing it's mostly... founder
personality? And what their priorities are?
~~~
standrews
I first started thinking about this in my previous job at Pipedrive. CRMs are
like marketing software: all seem to have a very similar feature set. But if
you looked closely you would see that Close.io was better at high-volume /SDR
type work, Pipedrive was better at managing a sales pipeline (with perhaps
fewer but higher value deals), some were better at contact management.
Same features, but founders had put together their unique blend based on their
worldview.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Hacker Dosed with LSD While Restoring Historical Synth (2019) - wglb
https://hackaday.com/2019/05/28/hacker-dosed-with-lsd-while-restoring-historical-synth/
======
Stratoscope
Related discussion, including a story of how I met Art Garfunkel on the way to
visit Don Buchla:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19992038](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19992038)
~~~
dang
That's a great thread! Far better than this one. Everybody go there.
------
sigstoat
the forensic toxicologist and biochemist sitting next to me, who also has at
least as much experience with LSD as any of you lot, sees nothing at all
improbable about the events described.
~~~
YeGoblynQueenne
I am struck dumb with awe in the presence of such eminent authority as your
friend :P
I have a serious question for someone with your friend's expertise, though. I
always thought that LSD "blotters" have a use-by date after which they lose
their potency. Word was that they evaporate or some such.
Is that true, or is it just an urban legend? I don't reckon any of the people
I've had this kind of conversation with would have kept any LSD blotters
around for long enough to really find out.
Obviously, having heard this rumour I was surprised by the article. Friends I
read it to also thought the LSD should have expired by then.
~~~
capableweb
With the right conditions, you can store LSD indefinitely (well, until the end
of the world or similar). I've certainly managed to keep my own LSD still
potent after ~2 years of first getting it, by storing it in a cold, dark and
dry place. Some older friends have described to me finding ~5 year old LSD
that still worked, but not sure I trust that.
------
thought_alarm
Let me tell you about the time I got chalked up on blow, dusting out the pots
of an old Yamaha DX7.
~~~
emptybits
70s, check. 80s, check. Who has a 90s synth dosing experience?
~~~
oofabz
Presumably involving MDMA in an MC-303
~~~
fit2rule
2000's: caught a virus from a Virus.
------
qntmfred
> We’ve learned this lesson ourselves cracking open broken laptops. You might
> find anything from coffee to soda, to pet urine or worse.
or black beans [https://youtu.be/4HhPK8XC75A](https://youtu.be/4HhPK8XC75A)
~~~
peterkos
I thought it was going to be that baked beans meme but no, they literally
brought some random repair guy over to "fix" a computer Full of Beans
~~~
mercer
Love how the repair guy didn't respond to the guy's confusion over it being
Windows 7 and him only having like five windows open at a time.
After years of helping people with 'computery' stuff, I've just stopped
explaining things (when I can) if I notice there's no way they'll get it.
------
dleslie
LSD ought to be legal.
~~~
ashtonkem
I suspect that LSD and other psychedelics will be the next area in the drug
legalization war, now that weed is basically down to rearguard actions.
~~~
centimeter
It’s already easy enough to acquire relative to the low frequency with which
people want to use it. As an entirely non-habit-forming drug, you’re unlikely
to find a population of people motivated to get easy access to it.
~~~
ashtonkem
Weed is relatively low habit forming, significantly less than a lot of other
legal drugs, especially nicotine.
I’m not sure if the difference between weed and psychedelics in the habit area
is enough to affect the formation of a reform movement.
~~~
ajzinsbwbs
It’s a controversial statement to describe weed as addictive or habit-forming,
but in any case, many people use it daily. The same isn’t true of LSD.
Anecdotally, I saw a lot of friends get cranky when their weed supply was
briefly interrupted by covid-19. The public reaction was strong enough that
dispensaries got to reopen almost immediately.
~~~
quickthrowman
Agreed, weed isn’t addictive like alcohol or opiates/stims, but there are
plenty of daily users (including myself). LSD is my favorite drug but I could
never use it daily, at least recreational doses.
I pretty much always have some lsd around, but the urge to use it frequently
is not there. I usually go months without tripping, not days.
------
palijer
Seeing how fond the Dead were about dosing people without their knowledge
(which is horrible and despite being a deadhead, I find abhorrent), I'm sure
Bear would be glad he got someone tripping from beyond the grave.
~~~
ashtonkem
While extremely unethical, there is something to this as a social strategy. We
know that exposure to psychedelic drugs alters one of the “Big Five”
personality traits, openness to new experience, permanently.
A large group of people doses by LSD without their knowledge would actually
emerge from the experience markedly different than they went in. Also,
probably more than a little freaked out or pissed off.
~~~
deathgrips
Some of the OG psychologists working with LSD wanted to mail samples to world
leaders so they would achieve world peace.
~~~
ashtonkem
Mailing unmarked drugs to world leaders seems like a good way to get a
ballistic response.
------
rendall
I'm glad the hacker is ok. Getting dosed is no joke, especially with no
previous experience. It can cause long-lasting psychological effects. Context
is key. Fortunately, the hacker recognized what was happening.
------
zapzupnz
The article isn't interesting for the content so much as the comment section.
Check that out immediately after reading the article, it's much more
entertaining and informative.
------
artursapek
Imagine accidentally taking the same acid that Jerry Garcia might have taken
60 years ago. That's wild.
------
kotutku
This story is almost too good to be true.
I can confirm from my own experience, that it's pretty easy to accidentally
absorb LSD by skin contact.
------
girvo
Thats... unlikely. LSD is not particularly active transdermally (despite it
being "well known" that it is), so unless he tasted the crystals... It's also
a remarkably unstable molecule for a well-known drug.
And anecdotally, I can say that administering a number of drops from a vial of
dissolved LSD did not give me anything remotely approaching a trip.
~~~
craigmcnamara
You can absolutely trip from a transdermal dose. The kind of prying and
jimmying required to disassemble a vintage synth unit could easily spread any
film or sludge all over a significant part of a person's hands without gloves.
Then all it takes is a bit of sweat or touching your face and you'll be
unintentionally tripping.
~~~
warent
The hardest part for me to believe isn't the transdermal application. I've
definitely known of people who who handled LSD and learned to wear gloves the
hard way. What is difficult to understand is how a molecule that unstable was
able to survive for... over half a century?
~~~
esperent
What makes you think it's unstable? UV light, heat, chlorine, (and perhaps
some other things) degrade the molecule. In the absence of those it should be
stable for a long time, in salt form (as it's usually made).
~~~
LilBytes
I've had tabs of acid sitting in a fridge which is naturally light and heat
controlled, in a sealed container (within the fridge) be absolutely benign
when consumed after being left for over a few months. The only way I've
managed to keep LSD protected/improve shelf life is to keep it in it's liquid
form and store it in a dropper.
I don't doubt that LSD could survive for some period of time on a natural
surface but to provide a big "trip" after it was on a surface like a Synth
seems a stretch.
I'd love to find out the half life of LSD in an open atmosphere like a Synth,
I imagine it wouldn't be very long at all.
~~~
01100011
and I've had tabs of acid wrapped in tinfoil inside a small ziploc inside a
filing cabinet with questionable temperature stability work just fine after
several years. Some of that acid, if I remember right, was taken into a rave,
lived in my pocket for a few hours inside... foil or a ziploc, I forget, and
then came home to rest in that filing cabinet.
~~~
LilBytes
Fair enough! Maybe the LSD I'm referring to was always shit/weak. :)
------
jdkee
“Turn on, tune in, drop out.”
~~~
bredren
“Buy the ticket, take the ride.”
------
bashinator
> Hacker Dosed with Historical LSD While Restoring Historical Synth
Sounds like the acid had been in there since the get-go.
------
staticautomatic
I would just like to say how pleased I am that Hacker News is the kind of
place where you can have a conversation about drugs and not a single person
refers to themselves as SWIM.
~~~
SenHeng
I'm not sure I want to google what SWIM stands for.
~~~
nefitty
SWIM is "Someone Who Isn't Me". People use it instead of "I" as in "I
committed the crime" becomes "SWIM committed the crime."
Presumably people really believe that this is some sort of legitimate infosec
behavior. I like that it makes infosec important, but it might trick people
into thinking infosec is as easy as just using an acronym.
~~~
baby
A lot of people did it for fun.
------
mastrsushi
Woah so cool he was on drugs while he did it??? That amplifies everything, so
meaningful.
------
monadic2
LSD is volatile; there's a reason you store it away from moisture and light. I
find this narrative unlikely. Even the moisture in the air will reduce the
potency very rapidly.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
U.S. Navy Tests Robot Boat Swarm to Overwhelm Enemies - srikar
http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/military-robots/us-navy-robot-boat-swarm
======
JoeAltmaier
Cool in principle. But in another more-informative article (posted on HN) they
mention each boat has sailors monitoring their activity 1-on-1 to prevent
tragedies (firing on civilians with the on-board 50-cal gun). So its no
savings in manpower to use so-called autonomous boats.
And then what about mission capabilities? How can a robot boat board another
vessel? What CAN it do? The ariticle says: form a 'line' between that boat and
your high-value ship. For what purpose?
Compare another approach: smaller high-speed 1-2 meter robot torpedo boats.
They can approach stealthier, perhaps go faster (hydrofoil?) and disable a
combatant by exploding, ramming or shooting. They'd be far, far cheaper than a
standard patrol boat converted to automatic control. And instantly deployable
by launching over the side.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Why We’re Biased About Being Biased - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/blog/-why-youre-biased-about-being-biased
======
golemotron
> The “moral credential effect” describes this compensation in the context of
> moral reasoning. When study subjects were given an opportunity to disagree
> with sexist statements, for example, they were then more likely to favor
> giving a stereotypically male job to a man instead of a woman (compared to
> people who weren’t exposed to the statements). Likewise, people who believed
> they were morally good were more likely to cheat on a math test.
That's interesting. It means that if we want social justice, the last thing we
should do is make people feel that they need to take public stands for it.
~~~
jkraker
Social media gives a lot of people the platform to do this and some use it
quite heavily. It would be interesting to see the correlation between
something like "ferocity" on Facebook and real life actions.
~~~
golemotron
I don't know if there are any studies about this but I don't see anything that
would make it different. Social media gives us 24/7 opportunity to feel good
being on the "right" side of an issue.
I wonder whether there's an inverse correlation between social media use and
direct action on civic and social causes: writing a Congress person,
volunteering at a homeless shelter, or giving to charities.
------
surement
Wikipedia has a pretty fascinating list of cognitive biases, it's fun to go
through it and mark each that applies until you start looking for the bias
about thinking you have all of them:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases)
~~~
marcosdumay
Of course you have all of them. Those are common patterns in human thinking,
and I guess you are human (correct me if I'm wrong).
You just don't have all of them at the same time, and have more bias in some
situations than in others.
------
runeks
All life forms are biased towards their own survival. That's why they're alive
in the first place.
------
daveguy
This is why AI practitioners will never make artificial human intelligence. It
will be found to be way too bug ridden before the hard work (expense wrt
power, computation, bandwidth) of getting it trained to a human level is
completed.
~~~
daveguy
To clarify, the emphasis there is on _human_. I don't doubt 50+ years from now
we will have general purpose artificial intelligences as sharp as humans. They
just won't be very human like. Typical heuristic errors like confirmation bias
will be quantified and that's about as inhuman as it gets.
~~~
solipsism
You've failed to account for the inevitability that general AI itself will be
extremely interested in modeling human cognition.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Dung Beetles Navigate via the Milky Way - komuW
https://voices.nationalgeographic.org/2013/01/24/dung-beetles-navigate-via-the-milky-way-an-animal-kingdom-first/
======
pavlov
Ancient Egyptians considered dung beetles sacred, and believed that they were
responsible for rejuvenating the sun during the night. Egyptians also had a
keen spiritual and scientific interest in astronomy.
Now it's revealed that dung beetles can perceive the galaxy. Coincidence? I
think not.
Obviously dung beetles are descended from a race of astronavigators who taught
the Egyptians everything. _They are the ancient astronauts._ [Cue theremin
music]
~~~
BartSaM
Is this Reddit now?
~~~
bcbrown
pavlov's account was created 3130 days ago; that's 8.5 years. BartSam's
account was created 37 days ago.
¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
~~~
jrimbault
Everyone should read the guidelines really.
>If your account is less than a year old, please don't submit comments saying
that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a common semi-noob illusion, as old as
the hills.
~~~
BartSaM
I am on HN since many years, a user just recently. I was not implying that HN
turns in to Reddit. I was implying that this comment is worthy Reddit, not
HackerNews - a professional website that strives to hold on to some standards.
I have read the guidelines. Really.
~~~
tim333
There doesn't seem anything in the guidelines saying you shouldn't make jokes.
Or it being a professional website for that matter.
~~~
sethrin
This is true. However, while jokes are not expressly against the rules, the
community moderation rarely favors them. Personally, I read a lot of Slashdot,
and to some degree enjoy the level of humor, political debate, and anonymous
commentary there. I find that the signal to noise ratio here is somewhat
better. I don't think it likely that anyone would be banned for exclusively
making joke comments, but generally I think the expectation is that while
informative or insightful commentary may also be humorous, the primary purpose
here is not entertainment.
------
njharman
This is less surprising if you imagine evolution to be a reinforcement machine
learning system. The dung beetle actors are given all the sensory inputs of
their environment. Those that used the inputs (which happened to be our
galaxy) where better at satisfying goal and thus had higher selection rate for
next iteration of system. The actors, much like machine leaning, AI, don't
have any logic nor any reasoning. They simply are a ludicrously complex, but
deterministic state machine of inputs -> mess -> outputs. The mess being
seeming unintelligible, not rational, with lots of "cruft".
~~~
lioeters
I think that's a relevant metaphor, to look at evolution as a kind of machine
learning system - especially the aspect of actors not "knowing" or
understanding the logic/reasoning behind their (seemingly?) intelligent
behavior. That might be a way to explain "intelligent design" in nature,
without bringing God or consciousness into the narrative.
~~~
nashashmi
> without bringing God or consciousness into the narrative.
Are you that afraid of God?
Honestly though, the more you break apart and put together the world through
science, the stronger are the signs of a higher order.
The more you take comfort in shallow explanations, the dimmer and darker your
world becomes.
Machine learning! Hah! It is nothing more than pattern recognition. Reactions
to that pattern are a different thing entirely.
~~~
stouset
Are you that desperate for a God that you recoil when scientists and
mathematicians find a natural explanation for some phenomenon?
The more you break apart the world through science, the more you realize that
even the simplest of rulesets can give rise to an incredibly complex network
of of structure, behavior, and incentives — no deity required.
Enjoy your ever-shrinking God of the Gaps.
~~~
nashashmi
There is nothing natural about a dung learning to navigate using the stars.
Nothing that great either. A creature will always try to figure its way using
objects as a reference point.
An incredibly complex network of structures is more proof of a higher order.
Enjoy your belief in a perpetually self-correcting field of science and a
perception of the world that never ceases to change. By definition, you'll
never find peace.
~~~
gnaritas
> There is nothing natural about a dung learning to navigate using the stars.
Yes there is, it's perfectly natural as was just explained to you above. No
magic required, simple evolution.
> An incredibly complex network of structures is more proof of a higher order.
No, it isn't. It's well established that very simple rules can create
incredibly complex network of structures with no higher order whatsoever.
> Enjoy your belief in a perpetually self-correcting field of science and a
> perception of the world that never ceases to change. By definition, you'll
> never find peace.
Nonsense. If you require iron age superstition to achieve peace, that's you;
others don't have that requirement.
~~~
nashashmi
I honestly wished you made better backup points to your arguments. I'm left
with nothing to go on as it is now.
Not natural does not imply magic. Nature by my reasoning is magical though.
Simple rules fail in the subject of the Heisenberg principle.
~~~
gnaritas
> I honestly wished you made better backup points to your arguments. I'm left
> with nothing to go on as it is now.
I don't need to, you either understand evolution or you don't; it's not an
opinion to be argued, it is how the world works. There's nothing you can
refute, any refutation is simply evidence you do not understand the facts of
reality. You can't argue with someone who denies evolution, their mind doesn't
value facts.
> Nature by my reasoning is magical though.
Then your reasoning is flawed. Magic is that which breaks the rules of nature,
like your god for example. Nature is not magical, the natural world is the
very definition of not magic.
> Simple rules fail in the subject of the Heisenberg principle.
You don't understand evolution, you're nowhere near ready to approach the
topic of quantum mechanics.
~~~
nashashmi
I give up. An atheist is not an atheist by logic. But rather by arrogance and
ignorance. And the nature of your tone seems to prove it. My only advice is to
tone down your hate and aversion to all things theological and reduce your
pride in the explanation of science. Because when it gets old and stale and
the excitement wears off, you will see things in a more "connected sense."
Like theology is just another version of science kind of thing.
~~~
gnaritas
> Because when it gets old and stale and the excitement wears off, you will
> see things in a more "connected sense."
No, reason and logic don't get old or stale, and they prevent me from thinking
how I "see things" has anything to do with reality. Nature is what it is, it
doesn't care about your beliefs and fears and need for an afterlife. Never
mind the humor in the one with an imaginary friend he's trying to push on
others calling others arrogant and ignorant, lol, don't project your flaws on
me. People are here talking about a dung beetle story and you're
prothletising, it's disgusting; keep that shit to yourself.
------
vermontdevil
Saw this in the twitter thread where this topic was started
A dung beetle goes into a bar. He doesn't order a drink. He just takes a
stool.
------
komuW
I have found the link to the original paper:
[http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2012.12.034](http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2012.12.034)
------
rexfuzzle
For context: TED talk where navigation via the sun is discussed and shown-
[https://www.ted.com/talks/marcus_byrne_the_dance_of_the_dung...](https://www.ted.com/talks/marcus_byrne_the_dance_of_the_dung_beetle)
------
olegkikin
But how do they know it's not based on just a few bright stars? Milky way is
pretty hard to see with our large human eyes. Insect eyes are good for
panoramic views, but much less efficient at low light acuity.
~~~
njharman
> Milky way is pretty hard to see with our large human eyes.
It's not, at all. It's just become hard to see in the last 100 years or so of
massive light pollution.
~~~
sliverstorm
Piling on, a real dark-sky site is worth a visit. First one I've been too is
the Cosmic Campground.
I don't have my photos on hand, but it really looks like this to the naked
eye, maybe even more vibrant:
[http://www.darksky.org/wp-
content/uploads/2016/01/CC_MilkyWa...](http://www.darksky.org/wp-
content/uploads/2016/01/CC_MilkyWay-700x366.png)
(Be careful, at the CC we accidentally were "those guys"\- there were no
lights at all except red headlamps, and our car kept lighting up like a
Christmas tree)
------
joelrunyon
Here's the tweet thread that brought this to the forefront today -
[https://twitter.com/GeneticJen/status/897153736669356032](https://twitter.com/GeneticJen/status/897153736669356032)
------
lai
That dung beetle helmet is hilarious.
------
mcone
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6422393](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6422393)
------
zoom6628
Dung beetles 1 Humans 0 There are so many things left to discover and
understand on the planet. Great time to be a scientist, or a maker.
------
samstave
"little cardboard hats"
I never thought a dung beetle could sound so cute.
------
Moshe_Silnorin
What wonders we see in nature.
------
ythn
Wow, they put the beetles in a planetarium? Nice
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Fish are eating lots of plastic - petethomas
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/the-bad-news-is-that-fish-are-eating-lots-of-plastic-even-worse-they-may-like-it/2017/09/01/54159ee8-8cc6-11e7-91d5-ab4e4bb76a3a_story.html
======
userbinator
I really wish plastics were recycled/reused a lot more, because they are such
ideal materials --- being rather unreactive, flexible, resilient, and (in the
case of thermoplastics, which make up the bulk of this waste) easily
reprocessed. Although the throwaway culture and low cost means that a lot of
it doesn't, I wonder if in the future, if the prices go up in following
petroleum trends, "mining" for plastics would start becoming profitable and
recycling increase significantly.
I also see some parallels with CFCs --- another substance with some great
properties, but which became so common and cheap that we started to use them
too carelessly and caused a lot of environmental damage in the process.
Hopefully, this time we'll collectively realise, and plastics won't get banned
like that.
~~~
Ninjalicious
I'm sort of banking on that. I expect our landfills will be mined by junkers.
There is a lot of rare earth elements, metals, and plastics that won't
biodegrade very quickly. Little snake bots tunneling through could pick them
all up. It's all a matter of need, we'll deplete the finite resources soon.
~~~
throwaway613834
> I'm sort of banking on that. I expect our landfills will be mined by
> junkers.
I'm sorry, but all you're doing in reality (whether you realize it or not) is
finding some vague resemblance of a justification for our irresponsible
culture. I would either try to do something to address the problem or just
avoid trying to keep up hopes like this. It only makes people feel better
about not helping without actually solving anything.
~~~
wiz21c
Yep that culture of "let's create more problems so we can sell more solutions"
is despicable...
------
acd
We buy lots of cheap plastic made of carbon oil co2 emissions. Then we throw
the plastic waste into the oceans. Plastic has weak estrogen hormone
disturbance in them from BPA. Then we humans eat the fish and thus gets the
estrogen from BPA. This is bound to have human reproduction issues down the
line.
[http://www.breastcancer.org/risk/factors/plastic](http://www.breastcancer.org/risk/factors/plastic)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A)
~~~
blitmap
Children of Men/Fish
------
dev_throw
Bioaccumulation is a serious thing. I suspect increase of plastic in fish
might be related to the reduction in sperm count in men.[0][1]
_[0][https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bpa-semen-
quality...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bpa-semen-quality/) _
_[1][http://www.deepseanews.com/2014/10/a-story-about-fish-
plasti...](http://www.deepseanews.com/2014/10/a-story-about-fish-plastic-
debris-and-sex/) _
~~~
PerfectElement
Eating lower in the food chain is a practical and accessible solution.
~~~
HillaryBriss
yeah. that's certainly been the approach for reducing exposure to mercury.
but, with plastics, i wonder how significant the exposure reduction is for,
say, consuming sardines, given that _the plastic particles themselves_ may be
mistaken for plankton.
in other words, what percentage of a low food chain fish's or mollusk's diet
is _pure plastic?_
------
jxramos
I wish they would have provide a quantitative measure of something about how
much fish and how much plastic has been found to have been eaten by marine
life. Maybe it's in the link they give to "enormous quantities of plastic
trash", but it would be nice to have a scale to the problem.
~~~
acdanger
Here is some research:
[https://wedocs.unep.org/rest/bitstreams/11700/retrieve](https://wedocs.unep.org/rest/bitstreams/11700/retrieve)
Page 93 has some specifics on recorded incidence of plastic ingestion among
certain species.
------
spodek
Hardly a word about reducing production and consumption.
There's no mystery where the plastic is coming from -- us. We can live without
it, certainly with a lot less of it.
While we wait for legislation, at least on a personal level we can take
responsibility for our externalities and reduce our personal consumption.
------
jwilk
The submission title makes the article appear less exciting than it actually
is.
It's not news that fish are eating plastics. The news is that now we know they
do it because apparently plastics smells good.
Can we add "Even worse, they may like it" to the submission title?
------
andy_ppp
How much plastic in fish flesh compared to say leaching into a bottle of water
or dust from plastic clothing? Which fish are worst, where is tuna on this
list? By what mechanism is fish liver function effected and will this
translate to humans?
It goes without saying we should avoid dumping plastic in the sea, but we have
no information how harmful fish twice per week is really.
------
amigoingtodie
I recently began bodybuilding and have been relying on canned tuna for
protein. I eat other sources, but eat at least 1 to 2 cans daily.
Is the plastic worse than the mercury?
What would be a healthy, affordable, and easy to prepare (this is very
important) alternative?
Also, is canned tuna a US thing? How often do you consume canned tuna?
~~~
tomkinstinch
Consider the humble sardine: rich in protein, omega-3s, and (with bones)
calcium. They're much lower in the food chain than tuna, so there's less
bioaccumulation of mercury, etc. And they taste good. I like the ones in
harissa (pepper) paste.
[http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1+can+sardines](http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1+can+sardines)
------
somberi
Two relevant articles - one about the amount of plastic in the Ocean, and the
other about plastic-eating caterpillars (seems like they don't eat that much
to be of use).
1-
[https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-...](https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/05/daily-
chart-6)
2- [https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-
technology/217213...](https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-
technology/21721328-escape-shopping-bag-triggers-idea-plastic-eating-
caterpillars-could)
------
iNerdier
The irony of the first ad I'm shown being a coffee machine with unrecyclable
pods to fill it makes me both amused and sad. Sort of sums up the whole
problem really.
~~~
jbg_
If it's Nespresso (or a compatible system) that you were shown an ad for, the
"unrecyclable" line that seems to often get repeated is actually false.
The pods _are_ recyclable, but whether they actually _get_ recycled is a
legitimate concern. In Switzerland and Germany, currently about 50% of used
pods are recycled, and this is growing rapidly.
Additionally, Nestle claims that the proportion of recycled aluminium (from
all sources, not just used pods) in all manufactured pods now approaches 80%.
~~~
oh_sigh
Approaching 80% of recycled aluminum is great, but remember that aluminum
recycling rates in general are very good (~70%)
------
clebio
> This article was originally published on
> [theconversation.com.]([https://theconversation.com/bait-and-switch-
> anchovies-eat-pl...](https://theconversation.com/bait-and-switch-anchovies-
> eat-plastic-because-it-smells-like-prey-81607))
------
pvaldes
With only the info available in the article, It seems that there are some
serious flaws with the design of this study. I didn't read the original
article and I could be wrong but at this moment is not conclusive to me.
~~~
pvaldes
Ok, I found the link to the study. This is one of the things that I was
looking for:
_these behavioural responses were absent in clean plastic and control
treatments_.
Much better then. Some questions remaining still.
Anchovies are preys. Is aggregation a signal of food or are they just afraid
of a strange odour?.
------
sml156
What's wrong with fish these days, They didn't do that when I was a kid.
~~~
saagarjha
That's because there wasn't as much plastic in the water for them to consume.
------
carapace
I have a plan, but it's taking me a bit longer than I'd hoped:
[http://phoenixbureau.github.io/ReGPGP/](http://phoenixbureau.github.io/ReGPGP/)
> The only way to clean up such a huge mess is to create a system that mimics
> the way life would do it. Really, if something could eat plastic there
> wouldn't be quite such a bad problem. It is because no living creature can
> digest plastic that it stays around and accumulates. So the solution is to
> create a kind of artificial life that can eat the plastic. Robots that
> replicate themselves, with a little bit of manual assistance, and collect
> and convert the trash into forms that can be used by living creatures.
A little help?
~~~
bsder
That's called a bacterium.
Why not create an actual bacterium to break plastic down like everything else
in the environment? It's not really that hard--high school students have done
it before.
[http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-plastic-
eati...](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-plastic-eating-
bacteria-20161116-story.html)
Bonus points if you can make the bacterium specific to particular kinds of
plastic.
~~~
avodonosov
Yes.
One possible problem: if the bacteria also eat plastic in our useful devices,
not yet garbadge.
~~~
bsder
You do realize that "plastic" encompasses a _lot_ of very chemically different
compounds?
Breaking down a "plastic" is going to be a very specific thing because it
takes a _LOT_ of energy to do so (plastics are really stable--that's why we
use them).
In addition, if it's so evolutionarily advantageous to eat plastic, something
would have evolved already. It's really not--plastic is very stable, and
doesn't really give you anything useful when you break it down.
So, even if you created a plastic-eating grey goo, it will evolve to eat
something that takes less energy very quickly.
~~~
avodonosov
Hm, interesting, thanks.
In this case we feed them in reward for collecting plastic. As flowers feed
bees for spreading their pollen.
------
Aron
Just proves how dumb they are. Plastic doesn't have any calories or hedonistic
value at all really.
------
pvaldes
And also cetaceans, sea-birds and turtles.
~~~
fairpx
I was watching a documentary, that proposed Humans do as well, since we end up
consuming some of the fish that eat that stuff.
~~~
shellbackground
That's exactly what article is talking about.
------
harryf
Prediction: evolution will solve what humans are incapable of. That means
species of fish evolving that specializes in eating plastic. Kinda makes
sense. While plastic isn't bio-degradeable in the normal sense, perhaps the
digestive system of a specialized fish will succeed. After all there is an
abundance.
~~~
lobster_johnson
The evolutionary pressure to cause a mutated, plastic-eating fish to
outcompete non-plastic-eating fish would suggest that there would be areas
where plastic was more abundant that the other things (plankton, mostly) that
fish normally feed on, i.e. other fish would be at a disadvantage because they
couldn't process plastic. That's a pretty dire scenario for humans.
~~~
pm90
Not necessarily. A lot of the flora and fauna in the New World developed
somewhat independently from that in the old one. So we might have these new
species evolve in regions of the oceans where the plastic is more abundant.
------
guskel
Maybe toxic fish could curb overfishing.
~~~
QAPereo
I've never felt better about having a lifelong dislike of fish.
------
turk183
Let's be honest about the plastic in the oceans: It is not first world
countries causing most of the problem. Ships do drop their trash in the ocean,
that needs to stop, and we're all guilty to some degree, but if you want to
stop the worst of the pollution you have to go to the Far East, Latin America,
and Africa.
~~~
blunte
Actually that's not correct. The first world consumer society demands and
consumes a lot of products - products made with plastic, packed in plastic,
handed out in plastic bags, bottled in plastic, etc.
We buy, then toss (trash bin, recycle bin, or on the ground) the packaging and
even old/broken bits we no longer need.
Certainly the developing world needs some education and behavior changes to
limit their impact, but we have much responsibility ourselves.
And our trash/recycling is often shipped to their lands - then stored, dumped,
or otherwise "recycled" poorly. Weather events or just poor planning allow
some of that waste to end up in water systems.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition - suraj
https://jacobian.org/2019/nov/11/python-environment-2020/#atom-entries
======
marmada
Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author
has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is
intimidating.
I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today,
I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv.
"pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were
provided.
Then I switched to Poetry. Poetry kept on detecting my Python2 installation,
but not my Python3 installation. It seemed like I had to use pyenv, which I
didn't want to use, since that's another tool to use and setup on different
machines.
I gave up and started rewriting the project (web scraper) in Node.js with
Puppeteer.
~~~
lone_haxx0r
Yes. As someone who has never dove deep into python, but has had some contact
with it: the package manager ecosystem is the #1 thing keeping me away from
it.
npm sucks and all, but at least _it just works_ and doesn't get in my way as
much.
~~~
heyoni
What does npm do that python can’t? I’m curious.
~~~
Too
npm is equivalent to combining pip and virtualenv into a single tool. This
gives better ergonomics when switching between projects since you never have
to "activate" your environment, it's always activated when standing in the
project directory.
~~~
Pandabob
Isn't this what Pipenv does? What has been a downer for me is that many of the
cloud providers do not support pipfiles in their serverless app services
(Elastic Beanstalk, App Engine etc.)
~~~
Pandabob
On second thought, at least on GCP I should be able to put the pipfiles into
.gcloudignore and just update the requirements.txt file with each new commit
using git hooks, build scripts or a ci/cd tool.
------
madelyn
I have never understood the need for all the different tools surrounding
Python packaging, development environments, or things like Pipenv. For years,
I have used Virtualenv and a script to create a virtual environment in my
project folder. It's as simple as a node_modules folder, the confusion around
it is puzzling to me.
Nowadays, using setuptools to create packages is really easy too, there's a
great tutorial on the main Python site. It's not as easy as node.js, sure, but
there's tools like Cookiecutter to remove the boilerplate from new packages.
requirements.txt files aren't very elegant, but they work well enough.
And with docker, all this is is even easier. The python + docker story is
really nice.
Honestly I just love these basic tools and how they let me do my job without
worrying about are they the latest and greatest. My python setup has been
stable for years and I am so productive with it.
~~~
Twirrim
I'm firmly set on virtualenv with virtualenvwrapper for some convenience
functions. Need a new space for a project? mkvirtualenv -p /path/to/python
projectname (-p only if I'm not using the default configured in the virtualenv
config file, which is rare)
From there it's just "workon projectname" and just "deactivate" when I'm done
(or "workon otherprojectname")
It has been stable and working for ages now. I just don't see any strong
incentive to change.
~~~
babayega2
I have been doing this starting Ubuntu 14.04. it's been stable even when I
upgraded now to 18.04 which has python 3 as default. The only downside
compared with tool such as pipenv is the automatic update of packages that
pipenv can offer and it's ability to be integrated into CI/CD pipelines.
------
Evidlo
For those new or unfamiliar with python, I think the best solution is the
simplest: pip and virtualenv
~~~
ramraj07
Seriously. The author is bending over backwards to accommodate poetry from
every direction, from the stupidest installation instructions I've heard, to
"can't transfer from requirements.txt" to "it doesn't work well with docker
but doable". Like what exactly does it add that's worth all this complexity?
Make you a maitai every hour?
------
f4stjack
Eeeehhh I think I will be downvoted to hell and back for this but after I read
the article I had the feeling of "why are you making this feel more complex
than it needs to be?"
I mean compared to Java and C# I have a MUCH MORE EASIER time to set up my
development environment. Installing Python, if I am on a Windows box I mean,
is enough to satisfy a lot of the requirements. I then clone the repo of the
project and
source venv/bin/activate
pip install -r requirements.txt
is enough to get me to start coding.
~~~
slig
> "why are you making this feel more complex than it needs to be?"
Because it's more complex if you have projects on multiple Python versions and
if you want to lock your Python packages to specific versions. (Pip can bite
you when different packages have different requirements for the same lib).
------
wp381640
If you're going to be using pyenv + poetry you should be aware of #571 that
causes issues with activating the virtualenv
[https://github.com/sdispater/poetry/issues/571](https://github.com/sdispater/poetry/issues/571)
the OP himself has a fix for this in his own dotfiles repo:
[https://github.com/jacobian/dotfiles/commit/e7889c5954daacfe...](https://github.com/jacobian/dotfiles/commit/e7889c5954daacfe0988fc05ff9e8e87eb1241b7)
~~~
jacobian
Ha, I'd forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder.
(Though, how'd you find that? Mildly creepy that you know more about my
dotfiles than I do!)
~~~
wp381640
I landed on that issue a while ago and your pull request was linked so I
ripped your solution and added it to my own dotfiles :)
------
nunez
> Although Docker meets all these requirements, I don't really like using it.
> I find it slow, frustrating, and overkill for my purposes.
How so? I've been using Docker for development for years now and haven't
experienced this EXCEPT with some slowness I experienced with Docker Compose
upon upgrading to MacOS Catalina (which turned out to be bug with PyInstaller,
not Docker or Docker Compose). This is on a Mac, btw; I hear that Docker on
Linux is blazing fast.
I personally would absolutely leverage Docker for the setup being described
here: multiple versions with lots of environmental differences between each
other. That's what Docker was made for!
~~~
jsmeaton
The build step for installing or upgrading a package can be a killer with
nontrivial projects.
~~~
maksimum
It seems like long builds are either (a) necessary or (b) user error. (a) If
you have a tree of dependencies and you change the root, you should rebuild
everything that depends on it to make sure it's still compatible. (b) if you
placed your application into one of the initial Dockerfile layers, but then
you're installing dependencies that don't depend on you, it's user error.
What's the situation where your application needs to go first in the
Dockerfile, and then you need to put a bunch of stuff that doesn't depend on
your application?
------
gravypod
The Dockerfile that's provided looks like it would be very slow to build. I
always try to make Dockerfiles that install deps and then install my python
package (usually just copy in the code and set PYTHONPATH) to fully take
advantage of the docker build cache. When you have lots of services it really
reduces the time it takes to iterate with `docker-compose up -d --build`-like
setups.
------
analog31
In addition to the popular conda, it's worth checking out WinPython for
scientific use. Each WinPython installation is an isolated environment that
resides in a folder. To move an installation to another computer, just copy
the folder. To completely remove it from your system, delete the folder.
I find it useful to keep a WinPython installation on a flash drive in my
pocket. I can plug it into somebody's computer and run my own stuff, without
worrying that I'm going to bollix up their system.
------
ninetax
Curious to hear other's experiences with pipenv vs poetry. Has anyone made the
switch?
~~~
kndjckt
I switched from pipenv to poetry over 1 year ago. I love it!
The main reasoning was so that I could easily build and publish packages to a
private repository and then easily import packages from both pypi and the
private repository.
Happy to answer more questions.
~~~
thehesiod
I'd like to use poetry however ran into
[https://github.com/sdispater/poetry/issues/1554](https://github.com/sdispater/poetry/issues/1554)
We have a custom pypi server and need all requests to go through it, however
haven't figured a way to make poetry always use our index server for all
modules instead of pypi.org
~~~
_AzMoo
Add a second source and it will prioritise that over pypi.
[[tool.poetry.source]]
name = "my-repo-name"
url = "https://myrepo.url/"
------
perlgeek
> On Linux, the system Python is used by the OS itself, so if you hose your
> Python you can hose your system.
I never manged to hose the OS Python on Linux, by sticking to a very simple
rule: DON'T BE ROOT. Don't work as root, don't run `sudo`.
On Linux, I use the system python + virtualenv. Good enough.
When I need a different python version, I use docker (or podman, which is an
awesome docker replacement in context of development environments) +
virtualenv in the container. (Why virtualenv in the container? Because I use
them outside the container as well, and IMHO it can't hurt to be consistent).
------
xchaotic
I love Python syntax, but I still haven't found a sufficiently popular way
that can deploy my code in the same set of setting s as my dev box (other than
literally shipping a VM). So setting up a dev env is one problem, but
deploying it so that the prod env is the same and works the same is another.
------
ausjke
python -m venv venv
source venv/bin/activate
pip install -U pip
pip install whatever
# <do you stuff here>
deactivate
no need any third-party tools, venv is built-in the above steps always worked
for me out of the box.
~~~
snypox
But how about replacing all of these commands with two words? poetry install
~~~
ausjke
which is another layer of abstraction and dependency that I do not really
need, e.g poetry no longer maintained, poetry(or whatever) has an urgent
bugfix,etc
------
Lucasoato
This article is great, those are viable solutions for sure. One of the
alternatives is conda: it's common among data scientists, but many of its
features (isolation between environments, you can keep private repository off
the internet) meet enterprise needs.
------
eximius
I would generally reach for conda instead of this, but they seem quite
comparable in aggregate.
And, given that I've been trying NixOS lately and had loads of trouble and
failing to get Conda to work, I will definitely give this setup a try.
(I haven't quite embraced the nix-shell everything solution. It still has
trouble with some things. My current workaround is a Dockerfile and a
requirements.txt file, which does work...)
------
rullopat
I like Python has a language, but when I see how clean are the tools of other
similar languages, for example Ruby, compared to the clusterf __k of the
Python ecosystem, it just make me want to close the terminal. I 'm always
wondering how it became the language #1 on StackOverflow.
------
notus
I recommend asdf for version management if you use more than one programming
language
~~~
pritambaral
[https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/](https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/)
?
~~~
rhizome31
[https://asdf-vm.com/](https://asdf-vm.com/)
------
anonu
There are two things that I find a bit elusive with Python:
1\. Highlight to run 2\. Remoting into a kernel
Both features are somewhat related. I want to be able to fire up a Python
Kernel on a remote server. I want to be able to connect to it easily (not
having to ssh tunnel over 6 different ports). I want connect my IDE to it and
easily send commands and view data objects remotely. Spyder does all this but
its not great. You have to run a custom kernel to be able to view variables
locally.
Finally, I want to be able to connect to a Nameko or Flask instance as I would
any remote kernel and hot-swap code out as needed.
------
luord
So far using docker and setup.py files is working for me, I've never felt they
were particularly slow, so I'll keep using them.
I gotta give poetry a try, though.
------
eivarv
Why not just use conda for envs and deps (or env-specific pip), and install
youtube-dl etc. via your platform's package manager?
~~~
cosmic_quanta
In my experience, conda breaks quite often. Most recently, conda has changed
the location where it stores DLLs (e.g. for PyQt), which broke pyinstaller-
based workflows.
In principle, it's a good idea; in practice, I'm not satisfied. On Windows,
it's an easy solution, especially for packages that depend on non-python
dependencies (e.g. hdf5).
------
nsomaru
I’ve been manually deploying my projects for years.
Can anyone comment on the Docker learning & troubleshooting story for python?
~~~
maksimum
Docker + setuptools/pip + python is great for development and production.
Docker is definitely worth learning, and is pretty easy to learn.
------
snorkasaurus
I like pip-tools for venv requirements management, but I don't see it
mentioned much.
~~~
globular-toast
I use pip-tools. It fits in nicely as an additional component to the standard
toolset (pip and virtualenv). But most people probably do not need to freeze
environments so it's great to be able to _not_ use it for most projects.
------
frou_dh
My sole use of Python is writing plugins (mostly single-user: me) for Sublime
Text.
It feels pretty comfy to effectively be on an island and far away from the
hustle and bustle of the industrial Python tooling.
------
dang
Related from 2018:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16439270](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16439270)
------
schainks
I've moved to ASDF and haven't really looked back. It's working well with low
fuss, and supporting far more than just python on my machine.
------
kovek
I'll pay anyone who can assist me with my Python setup. Is there a service
like this, where one can find a developer on demand?
~~~
abcininin
I have been using a consistent setup that hasn't yet failed me for the past 2
years.
1\. Install Anaconda to your home user directory .
2\. create environment using (conda create --name myenv python=3.6) .
3\. Switch to the environment using (conda activate myenv) .
4\. Use (conda install mypackage), (pip install mypackage) in that priority
order .
5\. Export environment using (conda env export > conda_env.yaml) .
6\. Environment can be created on an other system using (conda env create -f
conda_env.yaml) .
Anaconda: [https://www.anaconda.com/distribution/#download-
section](https://www.anaconda.com/distribution/#download-section) .
Dockerized Anaconda: [https://docs.anaconda.com/anaconda/user-
guide/tasks/docker/](https://docs.anaconda.com/anaconda/user-
guide/tasks/docker/) .
~~~
bmer
I can vouch for this. Anaconda is especially good for simulation/data stuff
(based on the focus on which packages are included by default).
One pain point though: getting it to work with Sublime Text 3 requires you to
set the `CONDA_DLL_SEARCH_MODIFICATION_ENABLE` environment variable to `1` on
Windows.
Not a flaw of Anaconda: it just pays attention to how to with multiple Python
installations on Windows.
------
mrfusion
Why pipx vs just using pip?
~~~
tedivm
With pipx when you install things they go into isolated environments. With pip
you're just installing things globally.
This difference is important due to dependencies- if you have two different
CLI tools you want to install but they have conflicting dependencies then pip
is going to put at least one of them into an unusable state, while pipx will
allow them to both coexist on the same system.
~~~
AdrienLemaire
I haven't used pipx, but as far as I understand, pipx = pip + venv. If your
pip executable is in a virtualenv, the "globally installed" is locally
installed.
pipx, poetry, pipenv and co are still nice wrappers to have, I suppose. It
just feel less useful now that most of my projects are dockerized.
~~~
yrro
pipx looks nice. Is there any way to persuade it to install 'wheel' before it
installs the desired package?
That way 'pipx install foo' can download and install wheels rather than
downloading source distributions and building/installing them...
------
diminoten
> Governance: the lead of Pipenv was someone with a history of not treating
> his collaborators well. That gave me some serious concerns about the future
> of the project, and of my ability to get bugs fixed.
Doesn't seem fair. You're not abandoning requests, are you?
~~~
oefrha
Just noticed requests moved from kennethreitz/requests to psf/requests.
Interesting.
Edit: From
[https://www.python.org/psf/github/](https://www.python.org/psf/github/),
> ... we have created a GitHub organization, @psf, to support and protect
> projects that have outgrown ownership by their original author.
------
mlthoughts2018
This is so painful to see compared to using conda.
~~~
whalesalad
1\. The author of this post helped to create the Django framework and runs a
successful Python consultancy.
2\. Conda is not used as much as you might think... it's really only used
within the data science community.
~~~
mlthoughts2018
1\. Argument from authority doesn’t mean anything to me. I also don’t believe
creating Django or running a Python consultancy endow someone with especially
useful opinions of Python packaging tooling. (Not that the author isn’t
knowledgeable, just you seem to think there’s an A implies B relationship
between those two items and having good opinions about Python packaging, and
there’s not).
2\. Conda is quite widely used outside of data science. It’s for example part
of Anaconda enterprise offerings used by huge banks, government agencies,
universities, etc., on large projects often with no use cases related to data
science. Conda itself has no logical connection with data science, it’s just a
package & environment manager.
In each of my last 4 jobs, 2 at large Fortune 500 ecommerce companies, conda
has been the environment manager used for all internal Python development.
Still use pip a lot within conda envs, but conda is the one broader constant.
~~~
m000z0rz
> huge banks, government agencies, universities
> large Fortune 500 e-commerce companies
Sorry, but argument from authority doesn't mean anything to me.
In all seriousness though, you literally did not provide any logical reasons
to think conda is better.
~~~
mlthoughts2018
Giving a counterexample is not argument from authority. I did not respond to
the parent comment to discuss any feature of conda, only to dispel the wrong
claim that only mostly data science projects rely on it.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Can someone please review my code? - saq7
I recently did a work sample in Rails for a company which I will not name. I felt pretty good about it when submitting it, but I was ultimately rejected.
They did not provide any feedback because they wanted to keep the hiring process under wraps, and I respect that. The problem still remains that I have no idea what I did wrong or what I need to do to improve.<p>So I want to ask you to review the code and let me know what you think. I will not post this work on a public site, because I want to respect the wishes of the company.<p>So my idea is to post it on bitbucket in a private repo and if you wish to review it, I will add you to the repo. I understand this is a lot to ask for when asking for feedback on the internet, and if there is a more straight forward way I have overlooked, please let me know.<p>My goal here is to understand what I did wrong and improve while still respecting the wish for secrecy by the original company.<p>Thanks a lot in advance<p>[edit]<p>I posted this request here and on reddit and I got same feedback - post the code on github. So I have done so. It can be found here https://github.com/saq7/rails-work-sample/
======
mtmail
The changes probably solved the feature request(s) and it looks Rails-like and
a lot of engineers would've coded in the same style.
Reading the instructions ( _), especially
"Your presentation should be something you're proud of. The user-experience
and aesthetic aspects should be well considered."
I'd say they were looking for candidates who simply spend more time on the
project. More CSS changes, more refactoring, maybe giving them a list of
things you wish you had time to solve.
Entirely possible it's not code related at all. Them waiting for another
candidate, somebody impressed them more for non-technical/coding reasons,
hiring freeze the manager doesn't want to admit or internal discussions about
the job role.
All you can do is send a nice email asking for feedback. If they don't provide
that, move on.
_) Took just 2 clicks to see the deleted files. It's possible to delete files
from repositories including history.
~~~
saq7
Thanks a lot for the feedback. I know that files can be deleted and from
history as well. I figured if I left those files in, a reviewer could find
them and keep it away from someone who didn't care enough to look. Thinking
back to it, not the best idea, I guess.
------
based2
[https://www.reddit.com/r/codereview/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codereview/)
------
dudul
You seem to care a lot about the "feelz" of a company that rejected you
without providing any feedback to help you improve. Just post the thing on
github (or public bitbucket) and paste a link here. Unless you signed a NDA
regarding their hiring process, you don't owe them anything at this point.
~~~
saq7
yeah, the folks over at reddit said the same thing. I have uploaded it to
github and posted a link in the submission text
------
sharemywin
Did you use any of this crap? if not your code probably wasn't hip enough.
[http://code.tutsplus.com/tutorials/ruby-on-rails-study-
guide...](http://code.tutsplus.com/tutorials/ruby-on-rails-study-guide-blocks-
procs-and-lambdas--net-29811)
~~~
saq7
Though I know about Procs, Lambdas, and Blocks, I did not use any of them,
because there was no real need to. My goal when completing the work sample was
write concise and readable code.
Though there might have been places where these constructs might have been
useful
~~~
sharemywin
And I got down voted for being spot on. Also don't forget automated unit tests
no automated unit tests no job.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Russian Government Runs a Troll Agency to Flood the Internet with Propaganda - raku1234
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-russian-government-runs-a-troll-agency-to-115389567389.html
======
rorykoehler
So do the Israelis, Chinese, British, Americans and probably many more
countries. It's amusing to read propaganda like this article that is clearly
designed to point the finger from a morale high ground when the moral high
ground is an illusion. It's also a little tiring. We could try clean up our
own backyards before pointing at our neighbors.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
AMD Will Build 64-bit ARM based Opteron CPUs for Servers, Production in 2014 - skept
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6418/amd-will-build-64bit-arm-based-opteron-cpus-for-servers-production-in-2014
======
zdw
AMD is no stranger to using busses and sockets that are compatible with
"other" hardware.
The original Athlon was bus-compatible with DEC Alpha chips - some logic
boards could take either with a firmware upgrade.
Also, there have been FPGA's that slot into Opteron logic boards (Celoxica
made one around 2006), and various other chips that connect directly to the
hypertransport bus as accelerators.
It remains to be seen what they'll do with this. Will it be a Xeon Phi
competitor (lots of cores, high thermal footprint) or something aimed at lower
end uses.
------
mtgx
Finally, AMD is embracing ARM. It just might be the only thing to save them,
but only if they are flawless in execution, and Nvidia and others already have
years of head start in working with ARM chips.
~~~
krasin
They have SeaMicro: <http://www.seamicro.com/> And given Nvidia has never
tried to do anything on the server, it might be that AMD is already ahead of
many others.
~~~
spartango
Nvidia ships quite a bit of Tesla hardware for GPGPU data center use; Amazon
just bought a massive shipment of these racks for use through AWS.[1]
What's notable about Nvidia's Tesla offerings is that they sit as a separate
1-2U rack on top of the compute box. The space and power costs of operating
Nvidia GPGPUs in a datacenter are nontrivial.
If AMD ships a solid ARM product with some good on-die GPGPU components, that
might compete with Nvidia, but otherwise the two are in different spaces even
within the server world.
[1] [http://vr-zone.com/articles/amazon-orders-more-
than-10-000-n...](http://vr-zone.com/articles/amazon-orders-more-
than-10-000-nvidia-tesla-k10-cards-k20s-to-follow-/17340.html)
~~~
tmurray
Tesla boards haven't shipped in a separate 1U form factor for a few years;
they're all passively-cooled PCIe boards inside a x86 server chassis now.
~~~
mrb
Actually both setups are possible. Sometimes vendors put the Tesla PCIe cards
in a separate chassis, and link the chassis to the host via a PCIe cable, eg.:
<http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-c410x/pd>
------
stefantalpalaru
Shut up and take my money! Give me 64+ cores at an affordable price and my
next build will keep you in business, AMD.
~~~
daniel-cussen
This is exactly what I like about AMD's strategy--they say more cores is
pretty much all that matters and, you know what? I think that's true.
------
bryanlarsen
In today's marketplace, there's very little about the ARM instruction set that
makes it better suited for low power applications. Yes, it is a saner
instruction set than x86, requiring less silicon to convert into uOPs, but the
difference is trivial in 2012.
The difference between x86 and ARM on the power/performance curve is almost
purely due to design choices and trade offs. So why not create a new low-power
x86 core instead of a new ARM core?
The only way this makes sense to me is for this to be a stepping stone into
the mobile market. The mobile market is definitely stepping up the
power/performance curve, and AMD's experience with GPUs may be a distinct
advantage for them in the mobile market in the future.
~~~
jbarham
> In today's marketplace, there's very little about the ARM instruction set
> that makes it better suited for low power applications.
So it's just a coincidence that ARM powers 95%+ of smartphones? I think not.
Given Intel's advantage in fabs and process technology I think it's all the
more striking that to date they have failed at developing chips to effectively
compete with ARM in the mobile market.
x86 is an ugly and inefficient ISA compared to ARM but it didn't matter as
long as users plugged their computers into the wall.
~~~
bryanlarsen
"So it's just a coincidence that ARM powers 95%+ of smartphones? I think not."
ARM designs have been optimized for low power. x86 designs have been optimized
for high speed. It has little to do with the architecture and lots to do with
the design.
Nobody has ever tried to design a sub 1 watt x86 design. Nobody has ever tried
to design a 100 watt ARM.
Only very recently have we had anything that's close to comparable. Medfield
has a similar power rating to high performance ARM designs, and similar
performance.
~~~
yvdriess
Intel tried the low-power x86 with the Atom, didn't really go anywhere. It's
true that scaling up an ARM will be equally problematic. But, the point is
that they use ARM because they don't want to push the power envelope.
~~~
bryanlarsen
Atom didn't go anywhere because it was a 10W processor benchmarked against
100W processors when running performance tests, but compared to 1W processors
when doing battery tests.
------
kapitalx
Nvidia's Project Denver [1] is very similar. A 64-bit ARM based CPU for
servers that they started working on a few years ago.
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Denver>
Edit: It seems the announcement from AMD is in response to this announcement
from Nvidia, the 2014 date also matches:
[http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20120921010327_Nvid...](http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20120921010327_Nvidia_Develops_High_Performance_ARM_Based_Boulder_Microprocessor_Report.html)
------
wcchandler
I love this announcement for no other reason than I've been predicting a large
influx of ARM architecture into the server market. It makes a lot of sense.
More importantly I believe it'll be large multi-core SoC clusters. This is the
very logical transition. While a lot of our software doesn't fully utilize
multiple processor support, our OSes are becoming a lot better at scheduling
and are almost eliminating the impact of a context switch.
------
frozenport
I don't see why AMD can do ARM better? AMDs strengths compared to Intel are in
its APU and the number of cores they can cram on an x86.
I think they confused the market, severs, with the technology they actually
have - x86.
Their biggest asset is the existing infrastructure and people to build x86 -
there are 2 companies that can do this: Intel and AMD.
~~~
vidarh
The problem is that there _will_ be a market for ARM servers for the simple
reason that power and core density is becoming a bigger and bigger part of
total hosting cost and ARM does low power well. AMD would be ignoring that at
their peril. They're much more vulnerable to this than Intel since they're
currently not generally the preferred high-end choice for most people.
~~~
TheCondor
Is ARM still lower power when dialed up to perform?
I think there are some interesting possibilities, especially with the bursty
nature of web traffic but there is also still a noticeable performance gap
between ARM and x86.
------
Breakthrough
Now this is some interesting stuff. I wonder if they have any plans to make a
dual instruction-set processor that can run both x86 and ARM-based operating
systems... That's the kind of crazy design that just might work ;)
Aside: I wonder if it's possible to have one processor core with an ARM
instruction set, and another with x86 - obviously, reading from different
[segmented] memory locations, albeit simultaneously. I just wonder, since they
mention in the article the new Opteron _cores_ are designed by ARM, but the
rest of the processor indeed will follow AMD's design.
------
ek
It's interesting that are actually a processor licensee, as the article notes,
and not an architecture licensee - in other words, they aren't designing their
own core around the architecture, but instead using an ARM design. With
Bulldozer AMD really started utilizing the many fab facilities that they have
around the world, and this should continue that.
------
justincormack
Interesting how they position it as one third of an ARM x64 GPU strategy. GPU
is still the dark horse if we get serious general purpose programming. GPU and
ARM works once sequential performance is not the selling point. ARM
instruction set on GPU could work too.
------
smegel
A potent sign of times to come...
~~~
sliverstorm
A comment empty of content...
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Apps to Build in a Bad Economy - Readmore
http://embought.com/blog/show/17?t=Apps-to-Build-in-a-Bad-Economy
======
timcederman
Frugality apps are cringeworthy. Thankfully the article finished with "Maybe
we should all start working on the "next big thing" that's going to change the
world and usher in the new new era of the Web." Absolutely.
~~~
lunaru
Couldn't agree more. That said, there's plenty of room for modest plays that
aren't the grand slam.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
How long until Apple is bigger than Microsoft? - nickb
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2850
======
satyajit
Actually, I would hate to see Apple in MS position. Let it remain small(er),
yet churn out innovative, compelling products as they have been doing in past
few years, and remain profitable!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: join YC for a non-US resident - csomar
Hi, I have an idea in mind (which is very stupid and simple) but if implemented correctly, it can turn productivity on. So I'm a "geek", i worked mainely on C# and php/mysql/jquery; I thought of trying to apply for YC.<p>The problem is "I'm not a US resident"; YC doesn't help in issuing VISA to US and suggest to ask other members, so here i ask! Are you an YC startup founder not from the US, how did you do to get VISA?<p>Also I'm 18 years old (but in January I'll be 19); so does that matter a lot.<p>+ is finding a partner hard? (currently I'm alone)<p>sorry for "lot of questions" but I don't know whom to ask, if you are that kind of people that want to talk a lot about their experiences why not add me ([email protected]) and talk about it
======
jacquesm
I think that to get a real answer you're going to at least have to tell the
people looking at this where you are from, that will make a huge difference in
how hard it will be to get you to the USA.
------
jacquesm
I found this in the HN/YC FAQ (linked at the bottom of the page):
Do we have to be US citizens?
No, as long as you can get here for at least three months. We've funded
several startups founded by non-citizens.
------
envitar
You'll probably have to go on tourist visa first, if you can. Or student - if
you are
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Terrible Truth About Alexa - jbegley
https://gizmodo.com/the-terrible-truth-about-alexa-1834075404
======
mikestew
"Why doesn't it work this way?"
"Why doesn't Amazon do this thing?"
"Why, why, why?"
Umm, why did you buy one in the first place, and after such revelations, why
do you continue to have one in your house? Instead of just listing reasons
that one should not buy such a device, the article came across to me as, "man,
I really love this Alexa thing, but it creeps me out. Why can't Amazon...?"
rather than just throw the thing in the trash if it bothers you that much.
~~~
mikece
I'm curious how many people __didn 't __buy these but got them for free as
part of some other package (like renewing service on Verizon). Personally, I
won an Echo Dot at a programming meetup but haven 't had it plugged for over
15 months.
~~~
mikestew
Hmm, a good point I didn't even know to consider. I'm over here in the Apple
camp thinking that such things cost $350 a pop.
------
omnifischer
Actually, the terrible truth about gizmodo is the praise they gave to amazon
echo show. why do these publications have 'cognitive dissonance'? Please.
[https://gizmodo.com/the-amazon-echo-show-is-the-best-dumb-
sm...](https://gizmodo.com/the-amazon-echo-show-is-the-best-dumb-smart-
machine-in-1796380588)
~~~
iamdelirium
People are allowed to change their minds, why aren't publications? Also, you
should realize that the two articles have two different authors.
------
mikece
While it's possible to request from Amazon everything that they (claim to)
have on their servers from our Alexa devices, it would be better if there was
some way to explicitly deafen the devices. I had been using my Echo dot
primary as an audio source to my living room speakers. But since it's not
possible to know when the room audio is being piped back to Amazon I unplugged
it. If there was a way to explicitly not wake to an audio prompt but only to a
touch command I would consider plugging it back in... but I really don't trust
it. So these days my living room speakers are fed by a very old iPod touch.
~~~
Slippery_John
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "a touch command", but you can always
hit the mute button which physically disconnects the mic circuit.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Memory-Efficient Search Trees for Database Management Systems [pdf] - ngaut
http://reports-archive.adm.cs.cmu.edu/anon/2020/CMU-CS-20-101.pdf
======
willvarfar
A lot to digest. Presumably the compression schemes outlined in the paper
would benefit columns generally, and not just keys, and would have a positive
impact on row-size which would in turn benefit general performance?
One short-string-compression-library to compare with might be
[https://github.com/antirez/smaz](https://github.com/antirez/smaz) by the
Antirez, the author of redis.
In the last decade Tokudb and then MyRocks showed how to do a fast storage
engine for data too big to fit in traditional RDBMS. They are multi-level,
they do page-level compression etc. And yet there is still so many easy wins
yet to be had.
Generally, databases are completely inefficient and there is just so much low-
hanging fruit; if the team size working on e.g. myrocks could be doubled, and
tasked with looking at the inefficiencies in the server as well as the storage
engine, things might change. I have a list in my head of the various really-
promising-ideas that databases don't actually do:
* linux doesn't have a syscall batching system, but if it did, the number of context switches would be cut down dramatically. Research in 2010 [https://www.usenix.org/legacy/events/osdi10/tech/full_papers...](https://www.usenix.org/legacy/events/osdi10/tech/full_papers/Soares.pdf) proved this and it wouldn't just be databases that benefit. These days context switching is more expensive than ever.
* database engines all use blocking io. Finally io_uring offers workable async io and that would benefit database storage engines immensely. See [https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/rust_techniques_sled/](https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/rust_techniques_sled/)
* tokudb showed that simply not tracking the affected row count could speed things up massively (tokudb called it NOAR)
* query engines often don't handle things that a few more lines of code would handle efficiently. I've got some tables with big compound keys and often do prefix searches in them, and why isn't mysql evaluating constraints that it can against the other columns in the key before dereferencing the row? Arrgh. Dumb dumb dumb. Etc.
~~~
qaq
"database engines all use blocking io" Well sled is using io_uring
~~~
samatman
probably why that paragraph had a link to a video titled "sled and rio: modern
database engineering with io_uring"...
~~~
qaq
which was my point :)
------
derefr
I've always wondered why I haven't seen a DBMS built as a unikernel. A DBMS is
already a "managed runtime" for data, with its own memory allocator,
scheduler, filesystem (in some sense), etc. And you're _almost_ always going
to want to run a DBMS "workload" on its own dedicated hardware/VM, anyway, for
predictability.
So why not just take that set of DBMS services and put them in ring-0, where
they won't need any context-switch overhead, will have fine-grained control
over their own queuing for kernel resources, and where they can pass data
structures by reference all the way from the network to the disk and back?
In Linux, we already have Open-iSCSI, which just has the control plane in
userspace, while the data plane is entirely a Linux kernel service, gaining it
all these advantages. This architecture works very well there; I'm unclear on
why others attempting to provide the higher-level "data-management solutions",
with the same high-throughput/low-latency requirements, haven't copied it.
~~~
aratno
Sounds like you would be interested in this paper on TabulaROSA:
[https://arxiv.org/pdf/1807.05308.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1807.05308.pdf)
------
jandrewrogers
This is a good paper and I appreciate the holistic focus on cache efficiency,
an area where multiple orders of magnitude of performance improvement are
often easily attainable compared to many common implementations. However, it
also highlights the gap between academic literature and the state-of-the-art
in database engine design. For example, adaptive succinct indexing structures
have been used for at least a decade in closed source databases. Structures
similar to the ideas presented in the paper have been reduced to practice in
real systems for a long time.
Last month I delivered yet another database engine, benchmarked against the
best open source comparables, which provides a rough but concrete example of
the gap:
The designed memory:storage ratio was 1:1000, an order of magnitude higher
than even the 1:100 ratio mentioned as aggressive in the paper. In fairness,
my prior systems were designed much closer to 1:100 ratio and it used new CS
research to significantly extend the ratio without materially sacrificing
performance. For data models with fairly complex indexing requirements,
insertion performance was >100x(!) the best open source comparables.
A large part of this performance is due to dramatic improvements in cache
efficiency that are not even particularly novel -- the gains attributable to
improved cache efficiency in the paper are eminently believable. The data-to-
index ratio in the above is around a million-to-one, small enough to fit in
CPU cache for many TB scale data models. The high data-to-index ratio is
largely attributable to using search structures that forego total order and
balancing, which enables dramatic improvements in succinctness with minimal
reductions in selectivity.
The other major contributor to performance is scheduler design, which wasn't
really touched on in the paper and is largely ignored entirely in open source
databases.
tl;dr: current open source database engine designs leave a massive amount of
performance on the table due to very poor cache efficiency, and this paper
correctly touches on some of the ways this is materially improved in closed
source database engines.
~~~
willvarfar
Can you give names of closed-source database engines that have these kinds of
performance improvements?
I mean, the mainstream RDBMS like Oracle, DB2 etc don't seem to be ahead of
the open source databases; they are all stagnant too!
~~~
jandrewrogers
Databases are severely constrained by the architecture choices from when they
were designed, you can't back port modern database architecture and computer
science to e.g. an Oracle or DB2. To integrate new computer science advances
you often need to write a new kernel from first principles. I sunset the
designs I license to companies every several years, starting over from a clean
sheet.
Most new high-performance database engines are intended to give the developing
company a new qualitative uplift in capability, scale, or operational
efficiency. No one sells public licenses these days. You've heard of the
organizations that are buying building these semi-bespoke database engines but
they are intended for internal use only.
The reason no one sells these capabilities as a product anymore is pragmatic:
it is extremely expensive to design a database engine for general public
consumption and the economics are difficult to justify as an investment. But
many large companies are willing to pay many millions of dollars for a
narrowly focused database capabilities, and the reduced scope makes the
development cost more palatable.
~~~
eternalban
Was skimming at your Space Curve writeup [1] and your mention of discreet
internal components caught my eye. Are you open to expanding a bit on this
statement:
"Discrete topology internals largely obviate secondary indexing"
[1]:
[https://www.jandrewrogers.com/2015/10/08/spacecurve/](https://www.jandrewrogers.com/2015/10/08/spacecurve/)
~~~
jandrewrogers
Secondary indexing is a hack to address the reality that most indexing
algorithms can only represent a single type of relationship efficiently and
typically only in a single dimension. This is not a law of the universe, it is
just how our algorithms tend to work. If you could eliminate secondary
indexing without sacrificing selectivity, it would be a massive win for
performance and scalability. However, this would require a single indexing
algorithm for complex data models that preserved an arbitrary mix of
relational, time-series, spatial, graph, etc relationships for searches and
joins.
To make this work in a practical database engine, you can't index the data
model per se but you can make it work by indexing a _moduli space_ into which
arbitrary data models can be mapped. These tend to naturally expose the
topological structure of the underlying data model for computational purposes
even though you are not computing on the data model per se. Designing very
general moduli spaces for database purposes is non-trivial and, to make
matters worse, they are pathologically incompatible with typical surrounding
database infrastructure once you figure out how to construct them. But you can
use the exposed topology to execute complex searches and joins on the
underlying data model.
None of my database engines use secondary indexing at all, hence the excellent
scaling and write performance, even for complex mixed-mode data models. A
decade ago the representations were pretty brittle and limited because I
didn't know how to express many things, but these days I know how to elegantly
express just about every common data model.
~~~
eternalban
Thanks!
> a moduli space into which arbitrary data models can be mapped
Very interesting. Somehow reminds me of using latices for deterministic
concurrency. Is this a topic that is discussed in public literature or an
innovation of yours? Love to learn more about this.
~~~
jandrewrogers
The work is mostly mine but I've had collaborators for some of the research
over the years.
I accidentally invented it many years ago when I discovered an unorthodox but
elegant solution to an algorithm problem which had stymied researchers for
decades (and which I needed to solve for a specific application). Some months
later, a research group I was working with were convinced that the unusual
algorithm construction might be applicable to an unrelated algorithm problem
they had been working on. Six weeks later I had solved their problem too by
extending the concepts developed for my original algorithm.
By that point I realized that while those two very different algorithms were
cool, the half-baked computer science I had developed to construct them was
even cooler. I spent the next decade fleshing out, generalizing, and extending
the scope of the computer science while figuring out how to efficiently
express that theory in practical software (which is not trivial). While I
wrote quite a few papers on this computer science many years ago when it was
new, the distribution was required to be non-public. I sporadically teach bits
of it but writing up hundreds of pages of old research in my spare time is a
lot less fun than working on my backlog of interesting computer science
projects.
------
alecco
Note by compression they mean keeping internal blocks closer to full. It looks
like a good thesis and advisors are reputable.
But this comes with a trade-off. As blocks are full, inserts trigger more
often a cascade effect. Batching inserts helps but once you need to apply the
batch that could take a long time to rebalance potentially the whole tree.
This adds a fat tail to insert times. But in many read-heavy scenarios it is a
good trade-off.
~~~
dgacmu
There was an aspect of that in the first part of the thesis, but the rest has
techniques that are independent. You can roughly break the thesis down by
paper:
* Hybrid Indexes (a read-only, full-block kinda thing where you have to handle inserts by using a second read-write tree)
* SuRF, a succinct range filter data structure
* Order-Preserving Key Compression for In-Memory Search Trees
Each of them can be used independent of the others, or combined. You can find
two of those papers on Huanchen's web page:
[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~huanche1/](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~huanche1/) the third
is to-appear, but you can find a preprint on arxiv:
[https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.02391](https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.02391)
~~~
alecco
Excellent. Great job!
------
scandum
How does it perform against googlebtree?
[https://www.tommyds.it/doc/benchmark](https://www.tommyds.it/doc/benchmark)
------
7532yahoogmail
Off topic to OPs paper however consider the case of volt-db an all in memory
SQL db with replication. In the sales'y' write speed was written down to less
locks, latches, disk I/O. But somewhere else I read that a big culprit in fact
isn't that: it's formatting data to be written to disk then decomposing a disk
block back into memory for use. All memory dbs avoid that. Thoughts ?
------
7532yahoogmail
Working my way through paper. Looks very cool. And practical ... It's also
exceptionally well written. It's clear. Nice job
------
rini17
Only read the conclusion and it's not mentioned there: did they consider
locality and thus cache/paging misses?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
NoJPEG - danmaz74
http://nojpeg.org/
======
atoponce
Please don't put into a presentation what can be put into a single HTML page.
------
lcedp
Why not .svg instead of .eps?
~~~
danmaz74
Personally, I would agree with you.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
EU privacy rules no obstacle to coronavirus fight; smartphone tracking a no-no - thg
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-privacy-explainer/eu-privacy-rules-no-obstacle-to-coronavirus-fight-smartphone-tracking-a-no-no-idUKKBN20X1LA
======
savolai
Fun dark pattern on site : declining consent for tracking causes consent
dialog to reappear infinitely on scroll. On top of a gdpr article. Oh the
irony.
[https://twitter.com/jpegautorotate/status/123776747110658048...](https://twitter.com/jpegautorotate/status/1237767471106580485?s=21)
------
jpxw
International law etc goes totally out of the window in a crisis like this.
Look at Austria shutting the border to Italy, technically contravening the
Schengen Agreement.
~~~
cyphar
The Schengen Agreement allows for temporary border controls in certain
circumstances. That's why (for better or worse) several EU states were
permitted to set up temporary border controls in response to the migrant
crisis a few years ago.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Subscription Payment Gateway? - Slashed
I have developed a webapp which I'm planning to release soon.
Can you recommend any Subscription Payment Gateway?<p>I know about RBS WorldPay, Paypal and Amazon FPS. What do you use(or would use)?<p>Thank you in advance.
======
sync
It depends on your demographic. I use Amazon FPS:
\- because my customers will probably have an amazon account w/ CC info in it,
and will probably not have a paypal account.
\- to avoid having to deal with storing CC info on my end.
\- to avoid having to buy a HTTPS cert entirely.
That being said, I am not huge on the fact that they leave my site to go pay
-- though, I'm hoping users are used to this by now (a la paypal).
------
jacquesm
authorize.net
ccbill.com
epoch.com
vxsbill.com
------
ljharb
Recurly.com
------
officemedium
authorize.net's ARB or CIM
------
msbmsb
also skipjack.com
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The CRAPL: An academic-strength open source license - budu
http://matt.might.net/articles/crapl/
======
noelwelsh
This is fantastic. The author is absolutely correct: academic software is
crap. I've used software written by someone who wrote a well known tutorial on
Haskell, and his code was a pile of junk. This is the right way to do it in
academia -- you are only rewarded for publishing so good academics write the
minimal system necessary for publication and then dump the code.
As a side note, Matt Might's backups suck if he could only find that one
program ;)
As another side note, the PLT group behind Racket are exceptional for
publishing lots and writing good code.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights - BWStearns
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-20/some-electronics-to-be-banned-on-some-us-bound-flights
======
KirinDave
I see many people here trying to puzzle out why electronics are under a
partial ban _from cabins but not from checked baggage_. It's a good question,
since if there is a fire or explosion hazard on a plane the last place you
want it is wrapped in a wad of flammable cloth and synthetics, even if it is
oxygen starved.
The only motivation I can imagine is: They want these devices in checked
luggage because checked luggage can be inspected without recourse by customs,
and without an on-site confrontation. With care, it can be done without even
notifying the people who are being checked.
And given the pushback on social media credential disclosure and the reveal
that the CIA (and presumably FBI and other agencies) have physical access
exploits (probably via USB or DisplayPort) for most of these devices, this
seems like a move who's only logical motivation could be easier digital
inspection.
Remember, it's the position of the TSA and CBP that non-citizens don't have
rights of any kind until they're allowed through customs, and by simply
inspecting devices they're interested in quickly and without publicity or
confrontation they will certainly be more effective at it.
I'm going to start putting a USB nuke stick in my luggage in an envelope. Just
for fun. Maybe I'll label the envelope something nonsensical like "12-16" just
to make sure people know it's useless. And in case I (or someone investigating
my luggage) needs to plug something into a USB slot.
~~~
GuiA
This. And also people not having devices on their person means they can't
quickly text friends/family if they get detained/mistreated/etc.
It seems like we're getting closer and closer to being in a situation where
people who can should avoid going to the US at all, and make their reasoning
known. Ie, refuse to give talks, attend conferences, etc. in the US.
~~~
akie
This is already happening. I'm in Europe and I've heard quite a few friends
(mostly academics) state that they're actively avoiding traveling to the US.
~~~
emanreus
I have to admit some border crossing incidents[1] are what I would imagine
entering North Korea would be like, not the US.
[1][10min audio]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYMw1p8s9M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYMw1p8s9M)
~~~
mgbmtl
As someone from Canada, that guy was being a total dick, very aggressive,
mansplaining the agent, which isn't surprising that it would trigger the
customs agent. He would have had the same response from an agent at the border
in Canada.
Ex: "what shops are you planning to go to". It's fine to answer "I don't know
yet". They're just testing behaviour. If you start being defensive or
aggressive, pretend to know their jobs better than they, etc, it's suspicious.
Although yes, in general, the US agents are really bad at doing behaviour
testing.
Anecdotal: Last year, I crossed the border a few times by car, visiting a
friend I met on Tinder. I completely got away with it, giving honest answers
at the border. Recently met someone else (a girl) who was stopped and accused
of prostitution for doing the exact same thing. :/
~~~
cat199
> "I completely got away with it"
No, because you didn't do anything wrong.
Border crossing is not a crime, last I checked, despite the best efforts of
some to make it feel that way.
~~~
mgbmtl
Agreed, I was being bitter/sarcastic. I meant to say that they incorrectly
profiled the other person who was stopped.
------
jpatokal
The Big 4 Middle East/Gulf airlines (Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, Turkish) have
been giving legacy US carriers a lot of grief lately, since they're both
cheaper and better on essentially all counts, so I can't help but wonder if
they have their finger in the pie here. Few businessmen will opt to fly long-
haul if they can't use their laptops, and they're specifically targeting 9
_airlines_ here, not just airports or countries.
It's also beyond bizarre that the US trusts Abu Dhabi's security enough to
locate its only Middle Eastern Customs/Immigration preclearance facility, but
not enough to let passengers who have gone through security bring tablets...
~~~
et-al
As an anecdote, I've flown United and Turkish across the Atlantic and it's a
world of difference.
In _2016_ , the United airplane I was in still did not have a seatback screen
and they expected all 200+ passengers to connect to the wifi to try to get in-
flight entertainment. Of course no one got on. So all of us were left craning
our necks trying to catch a glimpse of whatever was on the CRT in the aisle.
Meanwhile, Turkish Airlines has a touchscreen interface with beautifully done
transitions and an amazing selection of movies and music. I remember seeing
Radiohead's _Kid A_ on there, along with the Blade Runner soundtrack.
Next month, I'm flying to Berlin via Turkish even though it will take 4 more
hours because the price and comfort are worth it. Only problem is, this
electronics ban may compromise my electronics.
(And yes, I'm aware of early adopter pitfalls and government subsidies for
airlines, but United has no qualms treating non-status passengers like trash.)
~~~
joshontheweb
I'll never fly United again. I had a similar experience for 14 hours. It isn't
just the in flight entertainment. In my experience their staff are rude and
borderline incompetent. There must be a poor culture in the company as a
whole. My wife just flew with them and went nearly 10 hours without a meal
while she was flying with our two year old.
Edit: spelling
~~~
kw71
Yeah! I have been flying for decades. Delta seems to have a cycle of climbing
to excellence and falling. United Air Lines has always made me miserable
reliably.
------
hoodoof
I've seen it quite a few times.
Someone answers their cell phone mid-flight - BOOM! Down goes the plane, steep
descent, passengers screaming, masks drop from the ceiling, until that phone
call ends and the plane straightens up.
Blanket ban on electronics is the only way to stop this happening.
One time I was flying and someone had forgotten to turn off their phone until
the plane was in the air and it interfered with the navigation systems and we
landed in London instead of Paris. Very ocnfuisng.
~~~
hrrsn
I'm guessing you forgot the /s tag.
~~~
GrinningFool
I'm thinking when he says he's seen it multiple times, the /s tag is implicit.
------
maxxxxx
When I came to the US in 2000 it was a fairly optimistic and happy place. Now
when I read stuff like this I always get reminded how this country went from
pretty open to being scared, irrational and mean in the last 15 or so years.
~~~
pfarnsworth
Let's be honest here. Osama Bin Laden won. The US as we knew it pre-911
doesn't exist anymore. He caused it, but the worst thing about it is that we
did it to ourselves. First Bush, then Obama and now Trump is putting the nail
in the coffin.
~~~
jsmthrowaway
If bin Laden's victory condition was "many overly-reductive Americans
bemoaning negative events in their nation's existence by parroting that the
sky is irreversibly falling, throwing in the entire towel, forgetting or never
bothering to study several existential threats to the United States in its
brief history, and shrugging that our doom is all due to a Big Bad who managed
to take down the world's occasionally most powerful nation with four
airliners," then sure, he won. Since it wasn't, your comment is pretty much
meaningless despite its appearance of wisdom.
It's weird, for all this terminal rhetoric I read about the end of America I
still drove to work this morning and still had faith in American values, not
to mention a crazy belief that what's right will ultimately prevail in the
face of great adversity. What's more, I feel uniquely empowered as an American
to roll up my sleeves and create the America I want to see and believe is good
for the rest of us, and I didn't even need Gandhi to teach me that one.
I guess I need a sandwich board instead, because what's the point? Are we
merely South Canada now, waiting for an eventual invasion that will take our
economic, military, scientific and cultural leadership away, leaving a
skeleton of a sovereign state that barely made it out of puberty? What coffin
do you think Trump is building? I'm about as disapproving of the current
administration as you can get, but I've also studied just enough of the world
to understand that things tend to endure, even when the situation looks most
hopeless to all involved.
Look at the Big Bads that the British survived throughout their centuries of
history. Sure, Pax Britannica and their colonial adventures around the world
have come to a close, but I don't see any comments saying "the world won,
Britain lost, might as well yield the Crown and just absorb into the EU."
Nope: they _still_ fight for what they believe to be good and properly
British, including giving the finger to the rest of Europe when they feel it
necessary. We should learn from that example, of those with the learned memory
of an empire from which they descend, deflated by the world changing around
it, yet avoiding the adoption of a fatalist nostalgia that impedes all
progress and hope for the future.
If the British aren't a good example, look at the Germans who _still_ live in
the punchline of uncomfortable jokes. They're still here, still making some
mean beer, and still a valuable member of the world. Not even a particularly
misguided government pissing off the entire planet could get rid of a German
ideal that lived in its citizens' hearts, and they had a God damned wall down
the middle in the wake of that mess to constantly remind them of how hopeless
it got.
We are due to be knocked down a couple more pegs than we already are. If
you're of the mind to give up when that happens, then you can identify
yourself as a member of the "winning" army. Saying UbL won and giving up
_makes him win._ How do you not see that?
~~~
TeMPOraL
Let's put it this way: 9/11 achieved exactly what was intended - it sent the
US into a tailspin, and it's dragging the rest of the first world down with
it. The current condition of US politics wrt. terrorism is best described as
acute case of autoimmune disease. The damage of overreaction being much,
_much_ worse than the original attack.
That doesn't mean Bin Laden won - history is not a game, the round didn't end
yet. US can still recover - if it choses to.
~~~
gambiting
I'd actually argue that Bin Laden failed terribly at his stated goal - he
wanted to make Americans stop for a second and consider why they are being
targeted, and then hopefully discover all the atrocities their own government
has inflicted on Bin Laden's people, and well, hopefully revolt.
But America in general didn't spend even a second considering this.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/wcpls/z/c5cabqo](https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/wcpls/z/c5cabqo)
~~~
SerLava
Well I suppose, in a sense, it would be wrong to significantly change our
behavior towards alignment with OBL's goals. That would probably trigger a lot
more terrorism.
~~~
gambiting
Well, yes, of course. I'm not saying that we _should_ have aligned with his
goals - but the world certainly failed to get _why_ the attack was done in the
first place - for most, it only had a religious motivation, or they think that
terrorists hate American freedom so they had to attack.
Like the comment I linked says - terrorist goal wasn't that you get patted
down when traveling, or surrendering your privacy to the encroaching
surveillance state. Those are goals of the US government, and here, the
government is winning. The terrorists however, are definitely not.
------
mnm1
Note that some airlines, like Delta, do not allow computers or lithium
batteries in checked luggage (for example:
[https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-
us/ba...](https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-
us/baggage/before-your-trip/special-items.html) &&
[https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-
us/ba...](https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-
us/baggage/before-your-trip/restricted-items.html)) so this essentially means
that other than phones, these things are completely banned and will have to be
shipped separately or not shipped at all.
EDIT: Also, no airline that I know of will insure these items when checked in
for more than $100 on international flights (please correct if I'm wrong). So
if you can get them in at all, like the article says, they will be stolen.
~~~
vmarsy
> Note that some airlines, like Delta, do not allow computers or lithium
> batteries in checked luggage [...] so this essentially means that other than
> phones, these things are completely banned and will have to be shipped
> separately or not shipped at all.
This is incorrect, only spare batteries aren't allowed in checked baggage,
computers are fine. From your second link [1]:
> Lithium ion batteries installed in a personal electronic device _can be_
> transported as checked or carry on baggage. Lithium ion batteries not
> installed in a device (spares) must be in carry-on baggage and no more than
> two (2) spares between 100 and 160 watt hours are allowed.
[1] [https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-
us/ba...](https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-
us/baggage/before-your-trip/restricted-items.html)
~~~
mnm1
The first link says: "Computers or computer-related equipment are not allowed
as checked baggage. You can, of course, bring your laptop computers as carry-
on." It's unclear between the two links which one applies. Anyway, I'd check
with the airline before trying to check in such equipment.
------
jpatokal
The Big 4 Middle East/Gulf airlines (Emirates, Etihad, Qatar, Turkish) have
been giving legacy US carriers a lot of grief lately, since they're both
cheaper and better on essentially all counts, so I can't help but wonder if
they have their finger in the pie here. Few businessmen will opt to fly long-
haul if they can't use their laptops, and they're specifically targeting 9
airlines here, not just airports or countries.
It's also beyond bizarre that the US trusts Abu Dhabi's security enough to
locate its only Middle Eastern Customs/Immigration preclearance facility, but
not enough to let passengers who have gone through security bring tablets...
~~~
waqf
_[duplicate comment, admins merged two stories]_
~~~
hueving
>Plus, can confirm that the ME airlines are highly competitive
Very, they are subsidized by their governments.
[http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2015/03/airline-
subs...](http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2015/03/airline-subsidies-
gulf)
~~~
goodplay
Guess the US government should do the same. You either play by the rules of
the game, or don't play altogether.
~~~
ZeroGravitas
They could work together to rewrite the rules of the game to be better for
everyone. But since the G20 just had to take out wording about the dangers of
protectionism to keep the US happy, I'd guess we're going for the tragedy of
the commons version.
------
JamilD
I'm convinced this ban is motivated by a protectionist desire from the US-
based airlines, to dissuade business travelers from flying on Middle Eastern
airlines like Emirates and Qatar, which necessarily transit through countries
like the UAE.
If you're someone who flies for work, there's no way you're going to take a
flight where you can't use your laptop.
~~~
pavel_lishin
Are the listed airlines the only ones that have direct flights to the US?
~~~
metanoia
United and Delta cut their nonstops to Dubai a while back, so yes, most
likely.
------
untog
This is how they implement the Muslim ban. Piece by piece, bit by bit, they
make it utterly infuriating for any Muslim person to travel to the US. Next
they'll ban absolutely all liquids, or something.
~~~
marcoperaza
Given that someone already tried to bring down a plane with a laptop bomb, and
was nearly successful, maybe a little less cynicism is justified. Here's the
relevant excerpt from the CNN article on this:
> _The official said the move is partly based on intelligence that they
> believe indicates Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is close to being able
> to hide explosives with little or no metal content in electronic devices in
> order to target commercial aircraft. It 's a particular concern at these
> airports because of screening issues and the possibility of terrorists
> infiltrating authorized airport personnel, the official said. Flight and
> cabin crews are not covered by these new restrictions. In February 2016, a
> bomb hidden inside a laptop detonated aboard a Daallo Airlines flight out of
> Mogadishu, Somalia. The bomber was killed and a hole was blown in the side
> of the fuselage. The aircraft landed safely._
~~~
untog
Then why limit it to non-US carriers? Are United planes bomb-proof?
~~~
marcoperaza
It's not based on carrier, but on the country that the flight originates in.
Flights from the affected carriers, originating in other countries, are not
subject to the new requirements either.
------
tempestn
I have no evidence to support this, but one possibility is that they'd like
the opportunity to study those devices without the owners' awareness. It
sounds a little tinfoil hat, but in the absence of a better explanation (aside
from really poor security theater) it starts to look plausible.
------
rebootthesystem
Reminds me of something from about fifteen years ago.
I was training getting into R/C helicopters. No, not the toys they sell at the
mall but the more sophisticated models flown by R/C pilots. Needless to say,
they are not easy to fly. Even with twenty years experience flying R/C
airplanes of all kinds I had to start from scratch.
R/C heli's can be very expensive to crash. A set of carbon fiber rotors and
related mechanics will easily set you back well of $200. I was intent on
learning without crashing. How? Use an R/C flight simulator and log hundreds
of hours before flying the real thing.
I was flying back and forth to Europe a bunch during that time. It was only
logical to take my flight simulator with me and practice during the long
flight. That meant my laptop along with a special full size R/C controller
with a USB cord instead of the antenna.
This rig always called attention to itself and was a pretty good conversation
starter. I always had to explain what it was while going through security. On
two flight the pilot came over to my seat to check out what I was doing. In
both cases they asked to see if they could fly the simulated heli. And, sorry
to say, in both cases they failed miserably. It was a great way to get 16+
hours of practice.
Not sure I could do that today.
~~~
ohazi
RealFlight? I had a similar control box that used a game port (D-sub) before
USB was common.
~~~
rebootthesystem
I have both RealFlight and PhoenixRC. For heli training Phoenix feels better
to me. Also, you can use your real RC transmitter to run the simulator, in my
case I run JR transmitters. The down side is that you can't (shouldn't) run a
real transmitter while flying in an airliner. Yes, when plugged into Phoenix
the TX circuitry turns off, but I wouldn't want to answer those questions so I
use RealFlight and their dummy transmitter for that purpose.
There's something uniquely geeky about flying in a flight simulator while
flying on a real plane. Like I said, good conversation starter.
------
kartickv
This affects people from many countries, not just the seven or eight targeted
initially. For example, I stay in India, and if I visit the US, I may fly via
Dubai.
Which means, in turn, that I'm less likely to visit. Why take a 20-hour flight
and subject myself to "extreme vetting"?
------
notliketherest
likely Homeland Security wants to be able to search the contents of the
laptops - easier to do this when they're checked.
~~~
ryukafalz
On the plus side, it's harder to compel you to decrypt your disk if you're
nowhere near it at the time.
~~~
jamoes
On the minus side, they can install malware on your machine without your
knowledge (even if your disk is encrypted).
~~~
ploggingdev
Source? How is it possible to install malware when the disk is encrypted?
~~~
throwaway7767
You modify the bootloader to grab the password on next decryption. The
bootloader is in cleartext on the disk, otherwise the machine couldn't boot.
More advanced versions would involve modifying the BIOS to add a SMM-mode
hook. That way the malware runs completely outside the view of the OS.
Alternatively, any device with DMA access could have its firmware altered to
read sensitive information from memory.
Physical security is an unsolved problem.
~~~
ryukafalz
>You modify the bootloader to grab the password on next decryption. The
bootloader is in cleartext on the disk, otherwise the machine couldn't boot.
Mine isn't - I have GRUB installed to my BIOS chip, and I decrypt the single
encrypted partition from there.
>More advanced versions would involve modifying the BIOS to add a SMM-mode
hook.
That one could still get me though, yeah.
------
dawnerd
This is just asking for trouble... Between theft and potential battery fires,
it almost feels like they want something bad to happen so they can say people
coming from these countries are dangerous (using a hull fire as proof).
~~~
brajesh
This is probably a "travel ban" by inconvenience, since the earlier bans were
stayed in courts
------
jacquesm
So, assuming this is because of some credible threat: does that mean DHS
thinks that terrorists can't afford a couple of weeks lay-over in Amsterdam or
Paris before traveling to the United States?
~~~
Const-me
They might think airport security personnel at Amsterdam or Paris do their job
better than their colleagues from those 8 Middle Eastern and North African
countries.
And/or they might think Netherlands and France is just as attractive for the
terrorists as the US, i.e. the terrorists won’t bother taking that second
flight.
BTW, I think Russia should be the 9-th country on that list, as they have long
history of sponsoring terrorism.
~~~
linkregister
I'm ignorant of Russia's historical role in sponsoring terrorism; I'm only
getting recent Ukraine / Syria links. Can you share some resources to learn
more about it?
~~~
Const-me
They are doing that at least since foundation of USSR.
Russians ordered bombings in Warsaw, Poland in 1920-s. Shipped weaponry to
Irish Republican Army and Palestine in 70-s. Speaking about Palestine, some
say Russians have invented plane hijacking as a terrorist tactic:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20130102051626/http://www.nationa...](http://web.archive.org/web/20130102051626/http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/218533/russian-
footprints/ion-mihai-pacepa)
Killed many political opponents abroad, Alexander Litvinenko in UK, Sulim
Yamadaev in UAE, Stepan Bandera in Germany.
If you want more, read books and articles by Stanislav Lunev, Ion Mihai
Pacepa, Viktor Suvorov. Those are high-ranking KGB officers who surrendered
and were cooperative. Alexander Litvinenko also published stuff about state-
sponsored terrorism in modern Russia, but he concentrated on domestic not
international.
~~~
linkregister
Thanks! I'm not sure why you were down voted; maybe the down voter could
publicly dispute your statement instead.
------
whyenot
If it is going to place burdensome carry on restrictions on people the US
government could at least explain why the measures are necessary.
At the rate we are going, it's not going to be long before you will not be
allowed to bring any carry on luggage at all when flying from certain
airports. Maybe everyone should fly naked. Who knows, someone might have
plastic explosives sewn into their clothes. Wait, what if someone swallows the
explosives? Maybe everyone should be forced to take an emetic and get a
colonoscopy before flying.
~~~
marcoperaza
They did explain why they're necessary. You wouldn't know that from the
cynical comments on HackerNews though. From the CNN article about this:
> _The official said the move is partly based on intelligence that they
> believe indicates Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is close to being able
> to hide explosives with little or no metal content in electronic devices in
> order to target commercial aircraft. It 's a particular concern at these
> airports because of screening issues and the possibility of terrorists
> infiltrating authorized airport personnel, the official said. Flight and
> cabin crews are not covered by these new restrictions. In February 2016, a
> bomb hidden inside a laptop detonated aboard a Daallo Airlines flight out of
> Mogadishu, Somalia. The bomber was killed and a hole was blown in the side
> of the fuselage. The aircraft landed safely._
------
astrodust
This makes almost zero sense, and it's likely that there will be zero
explanation as to why any of this is necessary.
If there's a threat this only introduces a minor inconvenience to those
looking to carry out an attack. Is getting a connecting flight in some country
like Germany going to be hard?
~~~
zeroer
This is probably a first step towards a ban on all flights for that exact
reason.
~~~
greglindahl
... which would increase risk, because battery fires are worse in checked bags
than in the main cabin/overheads.
~~~
astrodust
Considering zero fires in carry-on have caused plane crashes, but a non-zero
number in cargo have, yeah, basically this makes it _way worse_.
------
ocschwar
What utter bullshit.
If they allow phones at all, then the threat cannot be an issue of a passenger
sending a command out of one of these. The threat has to be the device itself.
Now, a standard issue iPad is no threat, so we're talking about a customized
device made to look like on.
Except, if terrorists are going to the trouble to do this, they can just as
easily put whatever bad thing they want to put into the case of an insulin
pump, and bypass the ban.
This. Is. Bullshit.
~~~
marcoperaza
That's some strong criticism, especially since you're not even considering
that someone already successfully detonated a laptop bomb on a plane.
From the CNN article on this new policy: > _The official said the move is
partly based on intelligence that they believe indicates Al Qaeda in the
Arabian Peninsula is close to being able to hide explosives with little or no
metal content in electronic devices in order to target commercial aircraft. It
's a particular concern at these airports because of screening issues and the
possibility of terrorists infiltrating authorized airport personnel, the
official said. Flight and cabin crews are not covered by these new
restrictions. In February 2016, a bomb hidden inside a laptop detonated aboard
a Daallo Airlines flight out of Mogadishu, Somalia. The bomber was killed and
a hole was blown in the side of the fuselage. The aircraft landed safely._
~~~
dang
Would you please not repeat the same thing over and over? This is excessive.
------
dogecoinbase
This is... crazy. I can't even recall the last time I travelled with checked
luggage of any kind, and make a point of not letting my laptop/etc out of
arm's reach while traveling. I guess this does make it easier to search/bug
devices, though.
~~~
peterwwillis
This is actually one of the few credible attacks a hijacker could perform, and
reducing the size of the batteries (assuming most cellphones don't have 72Whr
6-cell batteries) is a practical method to prevent such an attack in the
cabin. However, it doesn't seem to rule out the exact same thing happening in
the cargo hold with a timer. It's less stupid than water restrictions.
~~~
stevenwoo
The rationale for water restrictions seems OK to me on the face of it. It's a
PIA for traveling. [http://blog.tsa.gov/2008/02/more-on-liquid-rules-why-we-
do-t...](http://blog.tsa.gov/2008/02/more-on-liquid-rules-why-we-do-
things.html)
~~~
peterwwillis
_> Was this a real threat? Yes, there was a very serious plot to blow up
planes using liquid explosives in bombs that would have worked to bring down
aircraft._
Yeah. With Nitroglycerin, the stuff that explodes when you move it too fast.
You could still bring this on a plane undetected in 3.4oz containers. And you
can check a bag with much larger amounts.
But there was not just "a plot" to blow up a plane with liquid explosives.
There was a successful attack on a South Korean plane that killed everyone on
board with liquid explosives, _used in 1989_. Yet they don't even mention
this, probably because the policy was put in place after 9/11, partly as a
fear tactic to get US citizens to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan,
partly to prevent fear from ruining the airline industry, and partly to
support the new jobs program called the TSA (which was also created after
9/11).
Without fear and extensive unnecessary security measures, the TSA would not be
the size it is, nor would it get the investment it gets. If you don't believe
TSA is primarily a jobs program, consider that according to NPR in 2006, a
government report showed that Research & Development programs were delayed
when TSA funds were redirected in order to pay for personnel costs for
screeners. And the TSA receives 8 billion dollars a year.
There are many ways to detect liquid explosives. By removing them from their
container (or requiring specific kinds of transparent containers) and using
laser scatter plotting or microwaves, or by detecting vapor emissions from an
opened bottle, for example. But nobody cared about them when planes _were_
bombed using them, and they're still not using any of these methods, 17 years
after the policies were put in place. These policies are just tools used to
control people.
------
coldcode
I have no idea what the point of this is.
~~~
harlanlewis
> the ban will apply to nonstop flights to the U.S. from 10 airports in eight
> countries in the Middle East and North Africa
Personal electronics are near-indispensable. By restricting their carry from
Muslim countries, freedom of movement to and from those countries is
significantly curtailed. This is about getting around the illegality of the
Muslim ban without banning any persons or groups. This is about "cultural
protectionism" through isolationism, not terrorism, and it's not even trying
particularly hard to pretend otherwise.
~~~
diminoten
...this is absurd. It's a 96 hour ban, this has _absolutely_ nothing to do
with the travel ban.
~~~
maxerickson
Could you link or explain where you are getting further info?
Neither Bloomberg nor this Reuters article mention the period it will be in
effect.
[http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-
electronics-i...](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-electronics-
idUSKBN16R2JN)
~~~
diminoten
[http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/324846-feds-
tempora...](http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/324846-feds-temporarily-
ban-electronics-on-certain-flights-to-us)
~~~
maxerickson
Fox has since updated their coverage.
[http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/03/21/electronics-ban-
on-...](http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/03/21/electronics-ban-on-flights-
to-us-is-indefinite-applies-to-8-muslim-majority-nations.html)
------
gibbitz
I'm curious what threat an iPad poses that a cellphone doesn't and what a
terrorist can't do with a chron job that they would otherwise do with a
laptop. It's not like they use a teleporter when they check your bags. It's
clear that if our regulations and bureaucrats are all we have to protect us
from "evildoers" we're all doomed by their ignorance of the simplicity of
working around this...
~~~
ars
A cellphone is small, and doesn't have much room, that's all.
It's not the electronics per say, it's the difficulty of checking inside them.
That's why only certain airports are included, those that check things
properly are not.
------
marcoperaza
There's lots of snarky and unjustified cynicism here, given that concealing
explosives in laptops is not a theoretical risk; it was recently done. Here's
an excerpt from the CNN article:
> _The official said the move is partly based on intelligence that they
> believe indicates Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is close to being able
> to hide explosives with little or no metal content in electronic devices in
> order to target commercial aircraft. It 's a particular concern at these
> airports because of screening issues and the possibility of terrorists
> infiltrating authorized airport personnel, the official said. Flight and
> cabin crews are not covered by these new restrictions. In February 2016, a
> bomb hidden inside a laptop detonated aboard a Daallo Airlines flight out of
> Mogadishu, Somalia. The bomber was killed and a hole was blown in the side
> of the fuselage. The aircraft landed safely._
~~~
TillE
1) We already have screening processes for that.
2) So the bomb is now in the hold. That's not really much of an improvement.
~~~
marcoperaza
Remote or timed detonation is trickier than manual detonation. I'm not
familiar with how checked luggage is screened, but it's possible that it is
potentially controlled by the US for flights heading to the US, or otherwise
more reliable. Again:
> _It 's a particular concern at these airports because of screening issues
> and the possibility of terrorists infiltrating authorized airport personnel,
> the official said._
~~~
stuaxo
Those guys were doing it non-manually when nokias were the phone of choice,
and back in the day the IRA probably used plain clocks, it's not going to be
much extra hassle for them.
------
kylehotchkiss
The reason people are most upset is because of how widespread theft from
baggage is. In many of the destinations you need a gulf carrier to connect you
do, you don't want to put a $1000+ device in a checked bag.
I guess you could do the crazy plastic bag warp thing. But that doesn't answer
the question of your things being stolen in the USA, which seems even more
likely due to the people on the line knowing the value of the things in your
pack.
Maybe it's time for a kickstarter for an accelerometer/wifi network
logger/audio recorder/camera that all activate when the bag is open so you can
receive audio and video of the person stealing your things.
------
itchyjunk
When I was passing through Singapore once, two Americans in front of me
started taking their shoes off right before the security check. The security
officer gave them a weird look and said they can put it back on because he
uses a scanner and doesn't need to look inside everyones shoe. Fast forward 3
years and i'm reading comments on HN about double security check not being bad
heh.
Checked in bag is not free. Checked in bags also get manhandled unless you pay
hefty to get the fragile tag and insurance. For someone cheap like me who
carries a backpack which is free so far, the extra cost is my biggest concern.
Hope something like this doesn't happen in domestic flights.
Edit: typos
~~~
jacquesm
> Checked in bag is not free. Checked in bags also get manhandled unless you
> pay hefty to get the fragile tag and insurance.
Assuming it arrives at all... it could be a very expensive bag. And laptops in
checked luggage is just asking for them to walk off. There is absolutely no
way I'd check my laptop, then again, I'm not planning on going to the United
States before the madness stops and if I would I probably would not fly
through any country that this is all about.
Even so, it does not strike me as a policy that has been thought about for a
very long time. Having laptops in the passenger area means that if something
bad does happen something could be done about it.
Having them in the cargo compartment means that if a fire should start it
could get quite bad before it gets noticed and the extinguisher gets used.
If they're scared of bombs then they should not be on board at all, cargo hold
or passenger compartment doesn't matter.
So I really don't understand the point of this, maybe time will bring me to
see the reasoning but right now I can't.
------
denom
This wouldn't have anything to do with a certain congressional hearing going
on today?
------
komali2
I believe the UK tried this once and I remember reading that thefts were
skyrocketing as a result. I'm struggling to find a source though, so this is
just my poor memory and hearsay right now.
~~~
kens
The article itself mentions thefts after the UK did this in 2006.
~~~
komali2
Oh neat, true. I still wish I could find a source on it :/
------
JBerlinsky
I have a feeling that sales of glitter nail polish are going to go up a
bit[1].
This is a good time to make sure that you have full-disk encryption enabled,
and to brush up on what few rights remain yours at a US border.
1: [http://lifehacker.com/use-glitter-nail-polish-to-make-
your-l...](http://lifehacker.com/use-glitter-nail-polish-to-make-your-laptop-
tamper-proo-1493599646)
~~~
giarc
I've used destructible labels before, not for my computer, but for barcoding
equipment. They work quite well, only issue might be wear and tear over time
will start to naturally destroy the label.
[http://images.tamperevidentlabels.com/companies/tampereviden...](http://images.tamperevidentlabels.com/companies/tamperevidentlabels/slide-01.jpg)
------
salesguy222
You look at this and say to yourself, "this doesn't make any sense! i don't
get how allowing cell phones and 'medical devices' (nebulous term) into carry
ons, but demanding that laptops go into checked baggage is keeping us safe!"
And you're right! It isn't.
But then you realize that the special interests that came up with this policy
were paid LARGE SUMS OF MONEY to impress Trump and all of his supporters and
career politician allies. And then you once more realize how incredibly stupid
this policy is in reality.
But then it dawns on you that Trump and his allies are either criminally
idiotic, or criminally wasteful in their policy pursuits.
Or both!
~~~
modeless
Look, I hate Trump. But air security policy hasn't been rational for a long
time. Don't tie every government dysfunction to Trump.
~~~
zzalpha
They may not be responsible for past policy, but I don't think it unreasonable
to blame successive executive branches if they make the policy even _more_
irrational.
------
pmontra
> Royal Jordanian said the electronics ban affects its flights to New York,
> Chicago, Detroit and Montreal.
Montreal, USA?
~~~
cperciva
Apparently some flights to Canada are affected due to passing through US
airspace.
~~~
madcaptenor
Nothing so complicated. Royal Jordanian flights from Amman to Detroit stop in
Montreal.
[http://flightaware.com/live/flight/RJA267](http://flightaware.com/live/flight/RJA267)
[http://flightaware.com/live/flight/RJA268](http://flightaware.com/live/flight/RJA268)
------
exabrial
I'm waiting for media to spin this as "anti Muslim" yet again.
I wonder if the true reason is because USA does not trust overseas security
(which doesn't make a lot of sense, you have to recheck your carry-ons/luggage
after customs), or if it's a means to get a closer look at your electronics
when you're not there, or just because there's been an incident (the TSA
actually managed to catch a threat) that we're not privvy to. From what I
understand, laptops are a bit harder to xray which is why they're screen
separate from other items.
------
sbuttgereit
The article makes passing reference at the end, but isn't forcing these
devices to be in checked bags actually more dangerous than some vague
terrorist threat? While still relatively rare, it seems that Li-ion batteries
catching fire in the cargo hold is still a bit more risky than the likelihood
of what they're trying to address happening.
(I suspect they are acting on some more credible intelligence in this matter,
but clearly not so specific that they can target their actions and have to
come up with something that itself poses a risk.)
------
BrailleHunting
Hassling visitors arbitrarily, haphazardly and somewhat discriminatorily makes
a country less cool and more autocratic. And talent, capital and tax revenue
finds other places to which to flock.
------
diminoten
...I feel like no one here read the article. Based on these comments, one
might think that A) this had never happened before (it has), or B) it was
permanent (it's a 96 hour ban).
~~~
andrioni
The linked article (at least right now, AP via Bloomberg) actually says the
ban is indefinite.
>The ban was indefinite, said the official.
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-20/some-
elec...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-20/some-electronics-
to-be-banned-on-some-us-bound-flights)
------
nikdaheratik
This is so frustrating because, even if there _is_ a credible case for putting
these limits on these specific airports, the Administration has done so much
to trash the reputation of both its own appointees and CBP. You can't help but
wonder if there's an ulterior motive to this and they're still understaffed
and so poor at getting the message out that we may never be sure.
------
bzbarsky
What I find interesting is that neither the article nor any of the comments
mentions that the UK is doing the same thing. See
[http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-
electronics-i...](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-electronics-
idUSKBN16S11Q)
------
TuringNYC
Personally speaking, laptops I can do without, but Kindles are like oxygen on
long-haul flights. This is incredibly disappointing.
------
fpoling
What is remarkable is that the order bans electronics on flights from Saudi
Arabia. I thought Saudi Arabia was still untouchable especially after the
travel buns that excluded the country where terrorists harmed US most
originated or got financial support. So however weak, it does add a
credibility that the ban is based on some intelligence.
------
jaimex2
Wonder how long before you have to check in everything, including clothing
where you have to fly in jumpsuites given to you.
------
Gargoyle
Can anyone think of an attack this would prevent? Anything a pad (or even a
laptop) could do could be done by a phone, at least hackingwise or whatever.
So something with the physical aspect. A jammer of some sort? A way to
intentionally explode batteries in a harmful way?
~~~
KirinDave
It's not about preventing attacks.
But our new fun game should be putting usb nuke sticks in a small, conspicuous
envelope in our luggage, maybe with a few crips hundred dollar bills.
------
somethingsimple
Sometimes I think this is going to get to a point where they'll have people
remove their clothes prior to boarding and dress a special suit so they're
allowed to fly without being considered a threat.
~~~
s5fs
That's why in old scifi movies everyone wears jumpsuits on spaceships, makes
getting through security much faster.
------
youjelly
Permanently infect the EFI on the laptop, while its enroute without your
permission. Removing the hard drive is not a remedy, maybe remove the battery
as well?
------
praneshp
Which countries? From the article, I can glean Saudi and Jordan. Pretty poor
journalism (or reading ability on my part)
~~~
BWStearns
Seems the source couldn't/wouldn't disclose the list. Given it's 8 countries
in Middle East/North Africa,my bet is old travel ban countries plus one.
~~~
ars
> Given it's 8 countries in Middle East/North Africa,my bet is old travel ban
> countries plus one.
That's impossible since neither Saudi nor Jordan were on the old list.
~~~
BWStearns
Fair point. I didn't take away that both were part of the electronics ban from
my original reading but that is a reasonable conclusion.
------
nthcolumn
I'm surprised there still are US-Bound flights.
------
ge96
Possible business, rentable laptops.
------
qordoba
If the new law does not apply to flights operated by American companies it
only shows that this is the beginning of trade war and sanctions against
Muslim nations.
It is nothing to do with safety of people. Period.
------
beedogs
What brave people Americans are lately.
Afraid of an iPad being used on a plane.
~~~
castis
Only naivety would lead someone to lump all Americans together and claim they
are collectively responsible for this.
Also, America is a big place [1].
[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas)
~~~
anigbrowl
Oddly, that's exactly how I feel about profiling of people from the Middle
East.
------
snowwrestler
Maybe TSA was up late one night surfing back through the XKCD archive:
[https://xkcd.com/651/](https://xkcd.com/651/)
~~~
jaimex2
First thing that came to my mind :)
------
ccrush
Is it really that hard to see that laptops and tablets could be disassembled,
sharpened, and re-assembled pre-flight, and then come apart to make a set of
very dangerous knives? How is this not expected to be a problem? Maybe, if ass
holes didnt hijack airplanes, we wouldn't have these ridiculous restrictions.
In the meantime, "I'm gonna need to look inside yo' ass hole, sir."
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
When to Avoid Using A.T.M.’s - petethomas
http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/when-to-avoid-using-a-t-m-s/
======
albedoa
I thought this article was going to be about how to properly punctuate and
pluralize abbreviations.
~~~
greatreorx
I thought this too at first, but now I think A.T.M.'s is okay in some
editorial circles as a plural non-possessive. It's used in many other NYT
articles - as is non-possessive G.I.'s.
"...some writers still pluralize initialisms in this way. Some style guides
continue to require such apostrophes - perhaps partly to make it clear that
the lower case s is only for pluralization and would not appear in the
singular form of the word, for some acronyms and abbreviations do include
lowercase letters."
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism#Represen...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism#Representing_plurals_and_possessives)
------
erso
A friend of mine that banks with BofA showed me that any credit card will do
to open the door. I don't know if this is still the case, however.
------
iwwr
CC-actionable locks are possibly one of the more irresponsible things banks
are doing to their customers. They should be banned.
~~~
Anechoic
One of the interesting things IME about those swipe locks is that you don't
have to use a credit/debit card, you can use _anything_ with a mag-strip. If
you're suspicious about a lock, I suppose you could try using your AAA card,
reward card or something else that doesn't have any sensitive info.
~~~
pasbesoin
For a while, the door reader at one of my banks only looked for the first
discernable digit. Insert the card a fraction, and bzz went the door lock.
------
preek
Cash should be made obsolete. I don't use it most of the time, I don't need it
most of the time and I _never_ prefer using it to a digital solution.
Only thing I buy regularly with cash is lunch in smaller restaurants.
~~~
smanek
Cash will never be obsolete until non-cash purchases can be made
anonymous/paper-trailless. The black market is most likely 10%-50% of the
market (depending on where you live, see
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market#Comparison_with_re...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market#Comparison_with_regular_economy)).
~~~
fossuser
Agreed, the only thing cash has going for it the privacy/freedom it provides
from being tracked.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Replacing tech recruiters with a very small shell script - lsh
I've just accepted a job offer from a company I think I'll be happy working for. The people are nice, experienced and the work sounds interesting. The pay is below average for the work, though. One of a few reasons I accepted this job was that I was absolutely sick of dealing with recruiters, which struck me as a bad reason to accept a job. From the winning recruiter to the half-dozen others latched to me that I couldn't shake, their only beneficial attribute is some sort of filter for the employer, right? or do tech recruiters offer something no machine can offer? Can they be replaced with a very small shell script? What compelling features would be necessary in a piece of software for employers to favour it over hiring a recruiter?
======
lsh
Wow - just saw this on the front page:
[http://chiefpieguy.tumblr.com/post/36198092182/why-
recruiter...](http://chiefpieguy.tumblr.com/post/36198092182/why-recruiters-
exist-and-what-to-do-about-it)
Still happy to hear about any amazing features such a piece of recruiter-
killing software might have.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ronald Sullivan Fired for Being Harvey Weinstein's Lawyer - mooseburger
https://reason.com/2019/05/12/ronald-sullivan-harvard-fired-student-mob/
======
who-knows95
what a bad precedent to set, if you ever have to defend a accused criminal,
does that make you a criminal.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Advice for Early-Stage Hardware Startups - bsmith
http://blog.ycombinator.com/advice-for-early-stage-hardware-startups
======
L_Rahman
Actually being in Shenzhen where the product gets made has been really
important for us.
I'm a biomedical engineer by training. My gut reaction in most phases of
product development is to dive in and engineer the problem myself. It took me
a while to realize this: I'll never be able to ship on time if I tried to
engineer everything. Turning myself into a product manager has increased the
pace of our product development by at least an order of magnitude.
Instead of taking detailed measurements of my device and building a three-
dimensional model to send over, I take my product designer's sketches and a
prototype to a case manufacturer. He comes up with a rough version, we go back
and forth, and a few iterations later it's what I want. Oh, and in the process
we've figured out what could be made more efficiently and what isn't actually
all that useful.
Hardware prototyping is slow when you're doing it all yourself. If you're
willing to tug on and navigate the Shenzhen supply chain and concentrated
manufacturing brain power, you can iterate at speeds that can at times rival
software.
~~~
iandanforth
Can you elaborate on the case design process? What language is being spoken?
Are you meeting in person? Is he showing you CAD or physical prototypes? How
much are you spending during this process?
------
soundlab
This is so refreshing to see on HN. People looked at me like I was out of my
mind in the ancient days of 2011 when I told people I was working on a
hardware startup. I would only take issue with the author's advice to
reconsider what you're doing if your volumes are under 1000. You can bend the
cost and risk of your product launch substantially by focusing on a narrower
niche and growing out from there. VCs don't like this of course, but scaling a
low volume product to a high volume product is orders of magnitude easier than
going from zero to a million units in a year. Following good design for
manufacture principles and keeping excellent documentation is also key
regardless of production size.
~~~
jpindar
I've been employed most of my life by companies that never made 1000 of any
one product. A lot of specialized industrial or aerospace electronics are
profitable despite not being mass produced.
------
god_bless_texas
As a sole founder, and yes I realize that is in itself a problem, hardware is
hard.
I've taken a few "purely digital" projects to the masses, but doing that with
hardware on your own is freaking hard.
On the one hand, we as starters are supposed to hack, grind, iterate until we
have something we can show people and gain feedback. Somewhere in there we are
supposed to find other starters that are willing to take the plunge with us.
In the digital realm this is easy because you can make fruitful progress in a
few night's work.
The the hardware side you can work for months to demonstrate something that
looks like dogshit and does what you say it does.
In the pure digital world, you don't usually have to separate "looks like"
from "works like", unless you are just at the absolute earliest stages.
So is hardware hard? Hell yes.
Is it harder than "pure digital". Hell yes.
Are things making it easier, and does exposure to fab labs and maker spaces
make it easier? Yeah, a little bit.
------
dguido
Nothing about "The FTC will sue you if you market an insecure device and put
consumers at risk by using it."
If you're not aware, the FTC has put a tremendous amount of resources over the
last ~2 years towards enforcement actions against insecure device makers and
defining a minimum baseline of security that all device makers should meet.
The likelihood that you will be named in one of these suits has risen quite a
bit during this time period.
[http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/01/ftc-
re...](http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/01/ftc-report-
internet-things-urges-companies-adopt-best-practices)
[http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-
releases/2013/09/market...](http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-
releases/2013/09/marketer-internet-connected-home-security-video-cameras-
settles)
[http://www.ftc.gov/news-
events/blogs/techftc/2015/02/whats-s...](http://www.ftc.gov/news-
events/blogs/techftc/2015/02/whats-security-shelf-life-iot)
------
justboxing
Excellent, practical advice, thank you!
Does anyone know if "#2 Don’t forget the certifications" apply to very small /
simple hardware ideas for ex: harware products / designs that use open source
kits like the arduino kit?
I am working on a product based on an arduino kit, and want to make sure I
have the certifications part (if needed) covered.
I am guessing that these certifications are more for big complex hardware
products like electric cars etc? or No?
~~~
bsmith
I'd say it's a mixed bag of safety, liability, and legality that will vary
widely between products. Some quick examples:
Safety: if you sell an appliance that operates on mains (hazardous) voltage,
there are standards in place (UL, etc.) you should be following in order to
prove your design doesn't allow that high voltage to easily come in contact
with a person. So for your Arduino thing, as long as the power adapter that
you source is already certified, you are probably good to go.
Liability: Closely related to above; what if your device is involved in a
fire? There are flammability requirements for devices for different
environments, and certification will help you prove you did everything you
were supposed to in order to prevent your device from starting or propagating
a fire. Again, not as big of an issue once the voltage is stepped down to <= 5
VDC.
Legality: mainly, FCC (in the USA) comes to mind. It's actually illegal to
sell radio devices using certain frequencies unless they are tested and
approved by the FCC. You can buy an FCC-certified radio modem or module to get
by this one quite a bit easier. Medical devices are an entirely different can
of worms (FDA, etc.).
So, it really depends on the use case for your product. What are you planning
to build?
~~~
jkestner
Not that I've gone this way, but I'm starting to believe that certifications
are like patents - not worth the money if you're very small. The FCC fines are
huge, but are they focused on the little guy? 3D Robotics seems to walk this
line, by a talk I saw recently.
I'd consider waiting until you know there's demand past Kickstarter, at least.
I see some worry about CE and the individual countries like Japan and ANZ,
when global domination is a long ways off. You're probably going to have to
iterate again anyway in order to get retail-ready margins.
A clue that it matters little is that when they need to put your unique
product in a government-designated category, it's going to be something like
"Computer Peripheral" or "Measuring Device". There is a lot of grey area.
Hell, CE lets you self-certify.
Another debatable early-stage expense is liability insurance. Technically most
distributors require it, including Amazon. But it can be nearly impossible to
get for hardware with no track record, never mind what it costs. The best
option is sometimes to let your LLC do its job and go bankrupt if someone
wants a lot of money.
~~~
mkesper
Does not sound like a terrific strategy to me. It probably will become very
hard to bolt the requirements on after you've finished your product. And for
people here in Germany, the pebble missing CE seals was a great deal as the
shipped products got lost in customs. Pretty easy to piss off your backers
like that.
~~~
jkestner
I'm not saying to ignore the radio requirements at all. If you're diligent,
make liberal use of reference designs, etc. your design will pass. I (and
Chris Anderson) just question whether the time and expense of getting
certifications that no one will notice is the right place for a startup to
spend its resources. Fair game, when so many skip arguably more important
things like security.
I agree on Pebble - the volume they were sending through, and a little
inexperience with customs, raised flags that were hard to put down. But by all
means, when you've raised $10mil, get your certs. I'm telling the Kickstarters
who barely raised enough to execute their hardware, and then think that
blowing $20K in order to cross all the t's for international markets, is not
putting the cert before the horse.
------
taylorwc
> Always think about bringing your capabilities in-house, if still outsourced
> -- EE, ME, firmware, ID, apps, frontend & backend dev.
This. 1000x this. The temptation to outsource _everything_ is huge in the
beginning, but the margin stacking and 'time stacking' this creates can be
fatal.
~~~
jkestner
I'll add another power of ten to yours. Just like you gotta be a full-stack
developer to be lean and mean in your early-stage web startup, you gotta
do/learn as much of the hardware stack yourself to save money and keep hard-
won knowledge in-house. Given how capital-intensive hardware is, you should be
even more stingy.
Not that everything must be done yourself any more than you should reinvent
AWS. But here's an extreme case of outsourcing:
[https://medium.com/@stevekreyos/the-rise-and-fall-of-
kreyos-...](https://medium.com/@stevekreyos/the-rise-and-fall-of-kreyos-new-
ac4e2d847964)
------
malexw
This is all solid advice. To me, this reads like page one of a hypothetical
book "So You Want to Start a Hardware Company." There's a lot to learn about
building a real hardware product. I'd love to read the rest of the chapters in
that book, written by the people who have been through it.
Though I would say that you probably shouldn't spend the time creating a new
hackerspace. As someone who has been there, starting up and running a
hackerspace can be a real time vampire. Joining up with your local space is
great - you'll meet a lot of smart people, have access to some useful tools,
and maybe even find some potential future employees. But I really don't think
it's a good idea to start a hackerspace at the same time you're trying to
start a company.
------
louprado
Finding new hires from your local hackerspace is great advice. You get to
observe and work with people before hiring them. BTW, If you are ever in
Oakland,CA you owe it to yourself to visit the Omni Commons. I'll be there
attending CCL's syn-bio lecture this Saturday at noon if anyone wants to
discuss hardware startups afterwards.
------
spiritplumber
I work in the bay area with all-local manpower, ask me anything. We
bootstrapped a line of products with absolutely no help from banks or
accelerators.
~~~
prbuckley
What kind of products do you make? What margin do you need to support local
manufacturing? What is your main distribution?
~~~
spiritplumber
Laser cutters and telepresence things, about 80%, my website and a few
resellers. [http://www.robots-everywhere.com](http://www.robots-
everywhere.com)
------
fasteddie31003
Here is a really good video describing how a low production hardware product
got to market.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIvTeHWfouA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIvTeHWfouA)
------
andymoe
This is a great article full of a lot of good advice. Hardware can be very
hard for a lot for reasons and you can make expensive mistakes especially if
it's your first time bringing a product to market.
We successfully bootstrapped some hardware to a shipping product and made it
through the Apple MFi program.
_If anyone wants to chat drop me a line. My email is in my profile and I 'm
happy to help If I can._
------
dexcs
Is there a List out there with the best hardware-producing companies... I
mean, what if i have the layout for a beagleboard 5.0 and want to order 2k of
them...
I find it pretty hard to get an overview over hardware factories...
------
pitt1980
"Join or start a Hackerspace, work from Techshop, contact makers who post
interesting projects: find people working on hardware like yours and ask how
they dealt with challenges you’re facing. These conversations have led to me
discovering faster and cheaper ways to make SMD stencils, casting aluminum
parts from 3D prints, sourcing cheap components direct from China at in-
country prices, and taught me everything I know about making things."
anyone have thoughts about how much IP protection someone should have before
talking about their ideas at a Hackerspace or Techshop?
Does it make sense to file provisional patents before working on an idea at
one of these spaces?
~~~
errantspark
Nobody is going to steal your unproven hardware idea at the TechShop. Don't
worry.
~~~
pitt1980
at what point in the processes of proving a concept does it make sense to get
IP protection?
~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
When you realize that you will make more than the patent costs, plus the legal
fees to sue an infringer.
Before then, I'd say you have better uses for the money.
~~~
spiritplumber
A provisional patent is around $400 and lets you slap Patent Pending on the
manual, which makes you look more serious, at least.
~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
[shrug] So you just paid $400 for the right to sue someone. Still gotta pay
the lawyers.
~~~
spiritplumber
It also makes you look a bit better to the sort of people who care about
patents (The problem with lawyers is that they quickly get more expensive than
siege engines, so their usefulness is limited).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Artificial intelligence is going to supercharge surveillance - jonbaer
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/23/16907238/artificial-intelligence-surveillance-cameras-security
======
vinchuco
In other news: Technology will be used.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Doctor Who-Style Wi-Fi With Sentient Captive Portal - bonyt
http://blog.tonybox.net/blog/2013/03/31/doctor-who-style-wi-fi-with-sentient-captive-portal/
======
lcampbell
> OSX tries to automatically detect if there is a captive portal login screen,
> like those commonly used by coffee shops and such, and open up a web page to
> allow the user to log in, we’re taking advantage of that by instead loading
> a web page which will upload the user’s soul.
iOS does this as well. It's an absolutely terrifying thought when coupled with
one of the old safari-based jailbreaks. Thankfully, it can be turned off in
the settings.
The internet is a scary place.
~~~
corin_
Windows 8 doesn't do it automatically, but does prompt with a "do you want to
be taken to the login page" which most people would click I should imagine.
Blackberry also prompts through a pop-up to load that page.
~~~
bonyt
As does Android.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Controversial cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo - notsony
http://www.foxnews.com/world/slideshow/2015/01/07/controversial-cartoons-published-by-charlie-hebdo/?intcmp=trending#/slide/controversial-cartoons-1
======
notsony
Note: A lot of people don't like Fox News but they are one of only a few
mainstream media outlets showing these cartoons right now. Apparently CNN had
them online but just pulled them.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Your Amazon Glacier strategy with versioning and de-duplication on *nix? - balladeer
Command line, or GUI (preferred).<p>Something that just sits in the background, monitors change and keeps backing up the change (while taking care of the de-duplication).<p>What do you use? (I know Arq which I believe has been covered more than once here)<p>And how do you use it? What is your backup frequency? How do keep the cost minimal? Is it too frequent, or seldom - as in few snapshots a week?<p>Have you every had to restore? If yes, could you find a way to minimise the price of retrieval?<p>I've around 700GB of personal data that I just want to be sitting there in Glacier for the worst case scenario.<p>(PS. Yes, I've looked at Tarsnap and it doesn't work for me).
======
java-man
Might this work for you? [http://goryachev.com/products/secure-
archive](http://goryachev.com/products/secure-archive)
Also, what was wrong with Tarsnap?
~~~
balladeer
Thanks. Even though it doesn't seem to have de-duplication I'll have a look at
it. Also it shows thumbnails and all that means it will do constant fetches
which is very costly in Glacier iirc or iiuc.
Why not Tarsnap? Tbh I don't have a concrete reason except that I am not
comfortable with it -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8809397](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8809397).
------
radq
Just out of curiosity, why does Tarsnap not work for you?
~~~
balladeer
I am not a geek, nor some uber nerd. Tarsnap seems to be designed exactly for
them. I once asked about a GUI of Tarsnap in one of the threads on HN few
months ago and the very mention was heavily downvoted. So, I just think I
don't fit in the _fan-circle_ and honestly I am fine w/o it.
Another reason is price. I will put a good amount of data there lying unused
for a long period so the extra dollars shall count a lot and since I'm
searching for a client that would have de-duplication that one benefit would
be settled too (as I've heard Tarsnap has de-dup).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Simple Docker App Management for OS X - bill_bkr
https://github.com/kitematic/kitematic
======
hackerboos
Previous discussion from 4 days ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8246240](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8246240)
~~~
pearknob
Isn't there a policy against repeat posts? (although I get the url's are diff)
------
Gedrovits
I am and early adopter of this, because, well, I like the UI.
It have some probable flaws now, but with proper support it can up the plank
for Docker users out there.
------
dqmdm2
This is great. Virtual Box like interface for docker.
------
bhavinsw
thanks!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Writing and Speaking - tlammens
http://paulgraham.com/speak.html
======
apl
It's a bit too easy and somewhat condescending to brush off public speaking as
strictly inferior to written communication. In fact, I disagree strongly with
Graham's stance. Sure, pure information transmission is enhanced in written
form: there's less noise, the reader can skip and backtrack at will, and so
on.
Speaking, however, gives you many more channels, and I refuse to consider
these channels (inflection, speed, choice of words, prosody, emotionalization,
what have you) mere baggage. Also, it's deceiving to propose that essays are
baggage-free. Good style makes a huge difference, even in writing. Compare the
great essayists to lowly part-time bloggers: the difference rarely boils down
to just _ideas_. Delivery matters. Emotional content, something Graham appears
to see as noise, distorts and enhances in written and spoken form alike.
All in all, I find it a bit too convenient that a mediocre speaker and good
essayist happens to think writing is simply the better medium.
~~~
ThomPete
Derrida thought a whole lot about the spoken word vs. writing.
_According to logocentrist theory, speech is the original signifier of
meaning, and the written word is derived from the spoken word. The written
word is thus a representation of the spoken word. Logocentrism asserts that
language originates as a process of thought that produces speech, and it
asserts that speech produces writing._
<http://www.angelfire.com/md2/timewarp/derrida.html>
~~~
pg
I agree with that. Good writing should sound like spoken language. One of the
classic mistakes of beginning writers is to use excessively formal diction,
e.g. to use connectives like "furthermore" that they'd never use when
speaking.
~~~
drostie
Well, it depends what you're writing. One of the horrible things about early
fiction is that the writers usually insert their own interpretations of how
characters talk -- including stuttering and "ums" and whatnot. Thankfully much
of this is wasted on fanfic, where you know what the author was trying to
emulate -- but usually it's a distraction. Great characters can get by without
habits written into their dialogue.
~~~
drx
Characters with speech habits are not necessarily a bad thing --
<http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BuffySpeak> (warning: tvtropes
link)
------
edw519
I dunno, I think the definition of "good speaker" really depends on the
audience. I probably speak for many here as an introverted, deeply
introspective outlier.
I have seen many great speakers in person (Tony Robbins, Zig Ziglar, Deepak
Chopra, Steven Covey) and almost always come away underwhelmed. I struggle to
understand why the audience gets so worked up with so little content
transferred. I have trouble with comedy clubs because so many people howl at
stuff I think is lame.
On the other hand, I find tech talks that would bore my friends to death
incredibly interesting. I've seen pg speak several times and I really enjoyed
his talks. I even like the "ums". They tell my subconscious to pay attention
because I'm being treated to something real-time and genuine that has never
happened before and may never happen again.
Oddly, my favorite tech speaker in the past few years was Reid Hoffman. He
sure doesn't look like a professional speaker; he paced back and forth and
mumbled with his head down. But I was afraid that if I dropped my pencil, I
might miss something that could change my life. Now _that's_ what I call a
good speaker.
~~~
jonnathanson
_"I dunno, I think the definition of "good speaker" really depends on the
audience."_
I agree with most of your post. But I'd actually invert that relationship. A
good speaker is someone who understands his audience, so that he can maximize
both his connection to it and his impact upon it.
The intent of speaking, and the intent of writing, aren't altogether
different. In either case, a typical goal is to convey information to an
audience, and to maximize the audience's uptake of that information. Uptake
naturally follows from conveyance, and successful conveyence depends upon
successful connection (or "breakthrough"). So, it stands to reason, knowing
one's audience is a necessary precondition to engaging one's audience. Some
audiences are tougher to engage than others. And what necessarily breaks
through for Audience A may fly right over the heads of Audience B, or piss off
Audience C, or strike Audience D as a joke.
This distinction is important to make, because too many people write or speak
primarily for themselves. They assume a hypothetical audience of likeminded
people, and they blame the audience when their words don't hit their marks.
This mindset is so prevalent that the exclamation "Tough crowd!" has become
something of a cliche. It's true that some crowds are "tougher" than others,
but the failure to engage a particular crowd usually lies mainly with the
speaker or writer. (Even when it doesn't, it's best to assume it does;
assumption of failure provides a useful lesson, whereas blame deferral offers
no room for growth).
~~~
Spearchucker
Understanding the audience, as you suggest, is not, in my experience, what
makes for a good speaker.
I've spoken in front of audiences - large and small - more times than I can
remember. Some of my talks tanked. Badly.
Most go really, really well. And the difference between the tankers and the
good ones is one thing - a belief in what I'm saying.
It can (and often has been) an openly hostile audience (I've had people
unexpectedly sit in just because I was "the guy from Microsoft", and that
presented them with a rare opportunity to heckle). And most times I win those
over as easily as the ones that are open to what I have to say to begin with.
And it's quite simply that when you believe in your message, when you just
know you're right/your approach is right/your message has integrity, that you
appear authentic.
And authenticity is very compelling, as a speaker.
~~~
jonnathanson
What you're saying and what I'm saying are not mutually exclusive.
Authenticity should always be a goal. Belief in one's own words, likewise, is
a solid precondition to success. All of these things are factors in success,
as is knowing the audience. It's possible to make a successful speech without
achieving any or all of these factors, but achieving them makes success much
more likely. It makes the delivery of the speech less of a dice roll.
I didn't mean to suggest a reductionism in favor of one factor over all
others; I was simply replying to a statement in the grandparent comment about
the relationship between audience and speaker. (Also, I'm not suggesting that
one should pander to his audience).
~~~
Spearchucker
That's fair enough.
------
cperciva
I wouldn't say that I'm a _good_ speaker, but I'm certainly a much better
speaker than I used to be. It's not just about transmitting a certain number
of bits of information per minute; it's also about making sure that those bits
are being received at the other end. I often throw jokes (and quasi-jokes,
like my "purpose of cryptography is to force the US government to torture you"
line) into talks as a way to help keep the audience's attention; and I watch
the audience for signs that I'm moving too fast or too slow for them.
But for all of this, I don't think the material I convey has suffered in the
slightest. One audience member told me that my cryptography-in-one-hour talk
was the "most densely packed hour of information" he had ever seen. If being a
good speaker pushed me away from having and conveying good ideas, my talks
should have been getting progressively less informative, not more so.
I posit that while PG is seeing a real effect, it's not the effect he thinks
he's seeing. Rather than style detracting from substance, it seems to me that
there's selection bias: In order to be invited to give talks, you must have at
least one of {good ideas, good style}. As a result, those talks which are
completely devoid of interesting ideas are inevitably given very well -- we
never see talks which are given by poor speakers who have no interesting
ideas. This in no way means that speaking well is responsible for the lack of
substance.
~~~
pg
Being a better speaker doesn't necessarily mean your ideas are going to get
worse. (I said in the first paragraph that I wished I were a better speaker.
Why would I wish for that if I thought it made your ideas worse?) It's just
alarming to me how little being a better speaker depends on making your ideas
better.
~~~
solipsist
Being a better speaker doesn't necessarily mean your ideas are going to get worse.
In your essay, you say:
Being a really good speaker is not merely orthogonal to having good ideas, but in
many ways pushes you in the opposite direction.
Paraphrasing the above passage, "being a really good speaker ... pushes you in
the opposite direction [of having good ideas]".
These two statements seems to be in direct contradiction of each other.
~~~
pg
No. It just means you have to expend extra effort.
~~~
solipsist
This is interesting. So you think that being a good speaker negatively impacts
one's ideas, although it won't necessarily be noticeable to others? That is
because those who are good speakers have counteracted the negative impact with
more practice.
------
paul
Speaking and writing are more different than they seem. It's actually a
different medium, and so a transcript of a great speech will often seem weak,
just as a reading of a great essay may seem flat. Too much is lost in
translation, which I think may the problem PG is encountering -- he first
writes an essay and then translates it into a speech. Imagine a painter who
creates a great painting and then tries to translate it directly into music --
will he be frustrated by the limitations of the medium?
To me, the power of speaking is that it temporarily creates a shared reality
where the listener can actually be in the mind of the speaker. Several people
here have mentioned hearing PG speak and finally understanding the sense of
curiosity that produces so many of his ideas. Maybe the idea itself isn't
quite as clear, but the inspiration that lead to the idea is more obvious, and
that's often just as important (teach a man to fish...).
~~~
randall
I like to think of it in terms of communication bandwidth. The written word is
low bandwidth, but if executed well, theoretically the ideas can be consumed
more succinctly. Radio would be the next step up the spectrum, adding implied
emotion into each word.
Video is next, and it's what I actually care about. I think if done correctly,
like a really thorough, honest, well reported 60 minutes piece for instance,
you get closer to being in the mind of the subject than you do in any other
medium. Hearing someone say a quote, while watching them squirm (Clinton,
Gates, etc.) give you a good idea of who someone is better than any other
situation, except public speaking / one-on-one convos.
Web video isn't really doing a good job of this yet, and I think it's related
to PG's idea that the writer of a script should spend all his/her time making
the ideas better, while the actor can focus on the presentation layer.
If it were easier / had a shorter feedback loop to author the presentation /
video layer, and the content layer were what was taking up the majority of the
time, we could see more interesting video. Right now, the render / capture /
upload / publish loop is so long, that it's just too difficult to meaningfully
experiment in video as information, as opposed to video as entertainment,
which is why YouTube's success has a foundation of quick funny bits, and not
some informational underpinning.
~~~
dan00
"I like to think of it in terms of communication bandwidth. The written word
is low bandwidth, but if executed well, theoretically the ideas can be
consumed more succinctly."
I don't think there's a difference in bandwidth, but that an essay can use the
whole bandwidth for words (ideas) and in a speech the bandwidth has to be
shared by words (ideas), acoustics and visuals.
------
rubidium
PG walks around at the end of his article, but doesn't say it outright.
Giving talks is about leading. Be it rallying the staff, conveying a vision,
or providing an update, the main thing is to inspire, connect, motivate and
direct. Some very self-motivated people hate talks because they already have
what they need in that area and would prefer just a document of instructions.
Most people, however, appreciate good leadership and appreciate talks.
Talks are for implementing ideas. Conversation is for understanding and
generating ideas. Writing/thinking is for generating ideas.
------
kevinalexbrown
False modesty aside, I am a very good public speaker. Doing debate in high
school, I had an undefeated regular season, as in not losing a single round. I
say this just to point out that I'm not a mediocre public speaker championing
the written word.
Paul Graham is right, but it depends more on context than he suggests:
Speaking about a technical subject, you want to communicate the ideas
themselves. The emotional content in this case _is_ noise. Paul suggests in
the notes that academic talks are more immune to this, but having been to
quite a few academic talks and given a few myself, I still find them quite
inferior to written papers and one-on-one conversations. True, people can
still inject the emotional appeals in papers or conversations, but they tend
to get more easily noticed and filtered by the reader or listener without the
spellbound effect.
Political debates are perhaps an exception. When you watch a presidential
debate, you're not only looking for the president with the best ideas, but a
president you believe has the leadership capacity to carry them out. You might
personally want the president who has the best ideas, regardless of how
charming they appear on camera, but like it or not, a lot of that leadership
rests on personal charisma.
~~~
rshe
This may be particular to the field of biology, but I find biology talks to be
much more interesting than papers. One contributing factor is that important
papers in Science and Nature are subject to stringent length limitations. This
limits the writer's ability to unfurl a coherent narrative. Oftentimes, years
of research are condensed into a handful of figures and sentences that cannot
convey the more subtle points of the argument (for that the reader is directed
to the supplementary information, which is often many times longer than the
actual paper).
On a more macroscopic scale, talks also allow scientists to highlight deeper
themes that are often lost in the minutiae of a technical paper. This is
especially important in biology because we want to find universal paradigms
from experiments done on model organisms. A talented speaker can distill the
most important themes from a body of research in a way that writing rarely
achieves.
In summary, talks are a great medium for conveying conceptual narratives. In
biology talks, the important assertions are almost always backed up by a slide
that shows real data. However, if I am an expert in a particular subfield and
really want to get into the details, of course I'll go read the paper.
~~~
madhadron
As someone who's passed as a native in physics, biology, compsci, and math,
this is peculiar to biology, or rather to the culture of academic biology
today, where the laurels go to those who can make the biggest mountain out of
their molehill of data. Thus you have grand assertions, followed by a slide
with a dozen gels, half of which are blurred, which show that under some very
strenuous assumptions and some very particular conditions, something might be
a certain way if you squint hard enough.
Journal length limits are partially responsible for the culture of bad writing
in academic biology, but it cannot explain why most of my colleagues in
biology could not express technical ideas clearly in writing even without
length limits.
If you go to the older literature you will find papers much clearer than any
biology talk I've heard. Arthur Koch's papers on cell shape are good examples.
There was also a culture of monographs that is missing today. The best
examples I can think of off the top of my head are one by Henrici
(<http://www.archive.org/details/morphologicvaria00henr>) and Schrodinger's
'What is life?'(whatislife.stanford.edu/LoCo_files/What-is-Life.pdf ) are the
two examples that occur to me off the top of my head, or Chargaff's scientific
essays in 'Heraclitean Fire'.
Disclaimer: I loathe the culture of academic biology and believe that most of
its practitioners should be defunded in favor of serious biological research.
~~~
rshe
I have to disagree with your characterization of modern biology. I was more
trying to make a point on the information value of talks versus papers. Your
comment reminds me a frequent quarrel at my school on how math is superior to
physics, which is superior to bio/chem. Of course everything in the humanities
is "worthless." I don't what to attribute to you beliefs that you don't hold,
but this is the undercurrent that I'm feeling: <http://xkcd.com/435/>
I do think there are many great papers coming out in biology today, and
scientists are still fully capable of writing insightful books and essays for
the general public. I can see why some papers feel like a collection of
trivial data, but trust me, beautiful and convincing data is well appreciated.
While exaggeration of results is also a problem, we are trained to read all
papers with a critical eye. There are always good papers and bad, but here are
some links to ones that I think are good:
[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v397/n6715/full/397168a...](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v397/n6715/full/397168a0.html?free=2)
[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v437/n7058/abs/nature03...](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v437/n7058/abs/nature03991.html)
<http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(09)00963-5>
<http://www.sciencemag.org/content/324/5928/807.abstract> (Hopefully you'll be
able to access these - if not, that's a whole nother problem about academic
papers)
I won't comment too much on your generalizations, but I want to note that it
is hard to predict a priori which findings from academic research will become
useful for industry later on. I think you'll find defunding academic biology
to be a pretty unpopular viewpoint. Perhaps you could elaborate on what
serious biological research means? (Plus, I'd say paying graduate students
30k/yr is a pretty efficient labor force)
------
rabble
It feels to me that PG is simply making excuses for not preparing for his
talks. There is no reason technical talks can't be fun, engaging, and full of
information. If you only read it out loud once, you're not doing enough prep.
Sure you could do a funny talk, which sounds great and doesn't have substance.
But it's not a zero sum game.
Don't read your talk out once, read it outloud a dozen times. Don't present it
unpracticed infront of the conference hall, present it in front of friends /
coworkers first.
Speaking and writing, the two, are a major way that programmers get to be
known. It's important that we learn to communicate clearly in an engaging way
with our community. If you're having trouble, take a monologue class at your
local theater.
~~~
forgottenpaswrd
I totally agree with you.
One of the most amazing things you see when people is bad at something is how
they make excuses so they don't have to do the work. I have cached myself so
many times making excuses. We tend to distort our world with fantasies.
This is like the people that are bad at meeting women, instead of admitting it
and do something about it, they create excuses like "women love bad boy
bastards, so because I want to be a good boy I don't want to meet women",in
reality is more like "I don't want to accept that maybe just maybe they do
something better than me I can learn from".
In Paul case it is "I don't want to learn to do better speeches so I invent
the excuse: Doing better speeches will mean I will be a worse writer so I
don't want to do it"
When you admit it is a temporal issue, when you are in denial it is permanent.
Could you tell me those speeches are devoid of content?:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V57lotnKGF8>
------
Aloisius
I think pg seems to have confused great speakers with great entertainers. The
mark of a great speaker is one who conveys complex ideas with (apparent) ease,
not simply one who engages and entertains the audience. While those qualities
are certainly helpful, unless the audience comes away with some level of
understanding, in my opinion, the speaker has failed.
A great speaker distills ideas and arguments down to their core essence so
they can be easily absorbed. While, in the speaker, this may not be a source
for ideas, it should be a catalyst of ideas for the listener. In this, the
speaking is superior to that of the written word. This is especially true if
you are in a room full of people who approach you after when it could quickly
turn out to be a source of ideas for the speaker as well.
Further, all the issues pg seems to have with speaking could just as easily be
applied to writing. I have read more nonsensical fluff wrapped up in a
entertaining package than I care to admit. The written word is just as
powerful at selling snake oil as the spoken one.
The only talks I find useless are for subjects I know well. However I have
seen some fantastic talks on topics that I knew nothing about which sparked
ideas I would not have had otherwise. I have given talks that have likewise
provoked a lot of discussion which helped me refine my own ideas.
Maybe pg is just going to (or giving) the wrong talks. Or maybe he
underestimates how good of a speaker he is.
------
coffeemug
I've learned that there is a difference between being a good speaker and being
a polished speaker. PG isn't very polished - there are tons of uhms and some
inherent awkwardness to his talks, but I still consider him a very good
speaker. With his awkwardness on stage comes some natural sense of charisma.
The audience laughs, feels engaged, and is glued to the speaker wondering with
anticipation what he's going to say next. At the end, everybody is very happy
for having heard the talk, and I don't think anyone ever feels bored during
it.
I expect with a few lessons it would be fairly easy to add polish to those
talks if it becomes necessary (e.g. running for office, etc.)
~~~
jmadsen
Yes to your first sentence; I'm not sure about the rest.
I couldn't help but feel this essay was in response to an earlier HN thread
where his speaking style was criticized a bit for its unpolished nature &
being essentially "un-listenable to" on a podcast somewhere.
IF that is the case, then he seems to have missed the point that no matter how
much good content you have, if you are so unpolished that you can't deliver
the message effectively, you almost may as well not talk.
"no one, uhm, is, uhm, going to, uhm, sit still for, uhm, and hour and a half,
of, uhm..."
------
ckuehne
An opinion by Nassim Taleb on the subject (posted on his facebook page):
"I have been told by conference organizers and other rationalistic,
empirically challenged fellows that one needs to be clear, deliver a crisp
message, maybe even dance on the stage to get the attention of the crowd. Or
speak with the fake articulations of T.V. announcers. Charlatans try sending
authors to “speech school”. None of that. I find it better to whisper, not
shout. Better to slightly unaudible, less clear. Acquire a strange accent. One
should make the audience work to listen, and switch to intellectual overdrive.
(In spite of these rules of thumb by the conference industry, there is no
evidence that demand for a speaker is linked to the TV-announcer quality of
his lecturing). And the most powerful, at a large gathering, tends to be the
one with enough self-control to avoid raising his voice to be noticed, and
make others listen to him."
~~~
simonw
One of my favourite perks when I worked at the Guardian is that any employee
can go along to the morning editorial meetings. They were absolutely
fascinating - a 40 minute meeting where the editorial direction for the day's
newspaper is fleshed out, by an extremely smart and well informed group of
people, with absolutely nothing dumbed down.
One of the thing that really struck me about those meetings was how Alan
Rusbridger, the newspaper's editor, set the tone. He has a relatively quiet
voice, and as a result the room stayed quiet enough that you could almost hear
a pin drop. When he spoke, everyone listened intently. This influenced the
whole meeting - people never spoke over each other, everyone paid full
attention and a huge amount of information and discussion was covered
effectively in a very short space of time.
~~~
chubot
I call this the "Godfather" demeanor. It's common among powerful males. I once
read an article about a big gang leader in prison and the writer noticed that
he had to lean forward to hear what the leader was saying.
They will talk very quietly and unclearly without regard to whether you can
hear them or not. When the room is silent and everybody is listening intently,
you can't help but think that what they have to say is very important. More so
than if they were to speak loudly and solicitously.
It's interesting that Talib is consciously advocating this affectation.
I guess there is a certain kind of leader who gains credibility through
actions rather than speech. Some leaders try to rouse you through speech --
e.g. Barack Obama definitely leans on his oratorial skills. Others do the
opposite -- Larry Page for example. He mumbles, and he doesn't care to repeat
himself. It's everyone else's job to figure out what he's saying.
------
vgm
The following was a real eye-opener for me, as I always thought from someone's
speech, you could infer how much mental horsepower they had [1]:
"
"Spontaneous eloquence seems to me a miracle," confessed Vladimir Nabokov in
1962. He took up the point more personally in his foreword to Strong Opinions
(1973): "I have never delivered to my audience one scrap of information not
prepared in typescript beforehand … My hemmings and hawings over the telephone
cause long-distance callers to switch from their native English to pathetic
French.
"At parties, if I attempt to entertain people with a good story, I have to go
back to every other sentence for oral erasures and inserts … nobody should ask
me to submit to an interview … It has been tried at least twice in the old
days, and once a recording machine was present, and when the tape was rerun
and I had finished laughing, I knew that never in my life would I repeat that
sort of performance."
We sympathise. And most literary types, probably, would hope for inclusion
somewhere or other on Nabokov's sliding scale: "I think like a genius, I write
like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child."
"
[1] Foreword, The Quotable Hitchens.
------
neilk
pg, I may be alone in this, but I think your talks, even when read out
verbatim, have an extra dimension that is missing in your essays. When you
speak, your curiosity and sense of humor come through strongly.
You like to use writing to explore radical new ideas, and to this end, you
refine your essays to have as few qualifications as possible. On the page it
sometimes comes off as arrogant. But with your voice, I can hear you proposing
these ideas for the sheer delight of a new perspective... the tone says "what
if we thought about it this way?"
Also, I'd like to slightly disagree that when one is in an audience, one's
critical thinking goes down. It's a matter of knowing how to focus your
attention. When I watch someone speak, I'm looking for the unintentional parts
as much as the intentional. Where does the person smile and feel relaxed?
Where do they seem stressed? What's their body language saying? For a geek
metaphor, think of that part in Neal Stephenson's _Snow Crash_ where he
describes how certain people have the ability to "condense fact from the vapor
of nuance". This gives a whole other channel of information to engage your
analytical mind, so watching a speech can become like reading.
~~~
ry0ohki
I agree 100%. I used to feel the exact way about Paul's writing (it seemed
arrogant), then I heard him in person and from that point on always had a
different and much more positive impression of him.
Paul is right that being a good speaker is not about making your ideas better,
but I don't think being a good writer is much different (perhaps the bar is
lower since it's not live, and there are less judgements to be made of the
person themselves), to be a good writer or a good speaker you need to be able
to keep people interested and convey ideas clearly.
------
andrewacove
I find it interesting to contrast this to the requirements for the YC
application video:
_Please do not recite a script written beforehand. Just talk spontaneously as
you would to a friend. People delivering memorized speeches (or worse still,
text read off the screen) usually come off as stupid. Unless you're a good
enough actor to fake spontaneity, you lose more in the stilted delivery than
you gain from a more polished message._
Footnote 2 seems relevant. I'd guess that most YC application videos are also
made of spolia.
------
dctoedt
My late senior partner was a world-famous (in our field) speaker and writer
and leader. He'd be 88 years old now. He was old-fashioned in many ways, and
insisted on telling us newbies exactly how he did public speaking, so that we
could do likewise:
1\. He wrote out every word, _in the type of language he would use in
conversation_. The resulting "script" was double-spaced, with Python-like line
breaks and indentations to signify the pauses he wanted.
2\. Then for rehearsal, he read the entire speech aloud, to himself, _ten
times_ , practicing the cadences and the emphases he wanted, editing as he
went. He said that reading the speech _aloud_ to himself was critical, because
that's what embeds the phrases and cadences and emphases in something like
muscle memory.
He would also sometimes say that Churchill's supposedly-extemporaneous remarks
were the product of enormous polishing and rehearsal.
------
jbellis
I saw Paul speak at the first Startup School in 2005, where he literally read
his talk on stage from an essay he held in his hand. I saw him again at PyCon
2012, and he's improved a lot. But this article makes me think that he still
sees speaking as a kind of poor delivery mechanism for an essay. They're
really different beasts.
I wrote a longer article about what goes into good public speaking for a
technical audience over here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3721333>
------
aristus
I recently read an essay by an advisor to Mario Vargas-Llosa's failed campaign
for the presidency of Peru. Brilliant writer, bad speaker. [0]
Being one of the greatest writers alive, Vargas-Llosa was good at giving voice
to the people's dissatisfaction and ideas for how to solve them. But he failed
at the other half of political communication: repetition. He was always racing
ahead of the electorate, speaking on his latest ideas. He was bored with the
thought of repeating himself. He never developed the habit of the stump
speech, and left his constituents behind.
In the influence game, one is eventually faced with a tradeoff between being a
thinker who raises the upper bound, and being a communicator/popularizer who
raises the median. Thinkers are needed, but if their ideas race too far ahead
they languish until a popularizer takes them up.
There is a middle way: continue your writing as before, but use the stump as a
trailing indicator of your thought process. There is no dishonor in giving
audiences an expanded version of your thoughts as of a few essays ago. Don't
worry that the ideas aren't "new". Definition, then repetition.
Also, learning how to be an engaging speaker at the same time as trying out
new ideas is hard. Keeping the ideas constant can help you become a better
speaker more quickly than you might think. And repeating yourself can even
lead to better thoughts in directions you don't expect.
[0] Mark Malloch Brown, "The Consultant", Granta #36
------
beza1e1
Speaking is not about information transmission. Speaking is to make people do
something.
For example, Steve Jobs keynotes made you go to the Apple Online Store and
preorder the latest products; Bret Victor in his "Inventing on Principle" talk
makes you rant about the current state of IDEs.
The effect of a talk disappears rapidly after the speaker has left the stage.
In contrast, a written text stays.
~~~
padobson
"Speaking is not about information transmission. Speaking is to make people do
something."
I couldn't have put it more succinctly myself.
Motivation is speech's primary function. Getting you to vote, or buy
something, or work harder, or learn something. Everyone who is trying to get a
group of people to do something is using speeches at some point.
------
larrys
This raises an interesting issue of what I will call "the lender" effect.
In an old business where I had to apply for loans I was always in contact with
the bank officer. Never the person who made the decision which the officer
called "the lender". If I got the loan I would hear the "the lender approved"
if not the opposite. "The lender" could have been a person or a group who
knows.
Anyway I remember thinking about that and I came to the conclusion that the
bank may have been purposely separating the person wanting the money from the
person who could make the decision about giving money. Why?
Because (I think) "the lender" just looked (read) at the cold hard facts.
Their opinion of whether to loan money wasn't colored by anything the person
wanting the money said or of course how they appeared.
This more or less goes along with what PG is saying. The question is if this
is the case (and I believe it is based upon years of this happening) it might
explain partly the VC success rate. Since they put much weight on individuals
and teams and not on the idea. Perhaps some of the weight they put on the
teams is colored by rhetoric that they should be removing from the decision
making process. (And yes I know the first thing people do in YC is fill out an
app and then get to pitch.)
------
gruseom
I've noticed that audiences laugh a lot and that most of what they laugh at is
actually not very funny. Most people wouldn't normally laugh at the same
things, unless they were really nervous. No doubt social proof is a big part
of this: people laugh because others are laughing, as the essay says.
Audiences are their own laugh track. But something has to start the ball
rolling. I wonder if it's related to authority. The speaker is in an
authoritative position, the audience is subordinate. One thing I learned from
hypnosis is that most of us are a lot more ready to submit to authority than
we seem - far more than we believe we are. If the speaker is known to be
famous or powerful, the audience will automatically project this on to them;
but even if they aren't, all they have to do is just assume a manner of
authority and the audience will automatically project it onto them anyway.
Then just about anything they say that is jovial will seem funny and the
audience will laugh. And I bet if an audience laughs a few times, they go away
saying "that was a good talk".
~~~
bokonist
_I've noticed that audiences laugh a lot and that most of what they laugh at
is actually not very funny._
Isn't the very definition of funny is that it makes people laugh? Laughter is
inherently a social, group bonding phenomena. Inherently, a social, group
gathering will have more laughter. There is no such thing as something being
objectively funny, funny only exists inside a group and social context, which
provides the opportunity for the group to bond at someone's expense (possibly
someone inside the group, possibly someone or something outside the group).
~~~
gruseom
Yes. The next sentence was intended to explain what I meant.
------
harri127
A speaker's success is defined on how well they can connect with their
audience and deliver their message in a way that the audience will understand.
People usually enjoy speakers when they are speaking on a topic on which the
people are interested compared to people not being interested when they are
forced to listen to a speaker. The same goes for written communication, you
must connect with your audience and deliver a clear message. The difference
becomes that a writer has the option to edit and change their communication
before communicating with their audience. Either way, successful written or
verbal communication is determined by what our outcomes are for our
communication. If you can communicate your point and influence the audience
then you are a successful.
------
neebz
Never seen someone deride speaking like that.
I think one of the best things about speaking is that it allows you to
emphasize the parts which are important.
The important distinction is in writing you are giving out ideas to the
audience and let them decipher all. But with speaking you get this additional
power using pauses, emphasis etc. to notify the audience what are the
important points and wherethe whole talk/presentation is revolving around.
Maybe PG's audience is very smart most of the time and he just need to float
the ideas and let them measure everything.
And not to forget if the language of communication is not exactly your native
language (or your not that good at it) then your writing could end up making
your whole essay a pile of shit (e.g. this comment ;) )
------
akg
In general I agree with the premise that talks are more about conveying a
vision, illicit emotion, and are prone to mob reactions. However, I wonder how
much of that is changing due to the fact that most talks are now available to
view online. Once you can view talks at your own leisure, you can spend more
time thinking about the speaker's points (via seeking and pausing) and you are
also not susceptible to the reactions of those around you.
I wonder how much the availability of talks in this way affects their content.
I would think that talks are moving more in the direction of writing since the
speakers words can be heard and thought about without external influences --
which in turn can be used to generate new ideas.
~~~
shahan
_> However, I wonder how much of that is changing due to the fact that most
talks are now available to view online._
Interesting point. If ideas, arguments, and claims in video and audio can be
visualized more effectively, that might change things even more.
------
alain94040
I disagree with pg's opinion in that case. I think what he describes is
correct as far as it applies to his style of speaking, but there are many
cases where a speech format conveys information better and is more articulate
than reading an essay. Think of TED talks for instance.
It's ok for any one person to perfer words, but not everyone prefers reading
to a face to face meeting. If that were the case, imagine all the VC pitches
consisting of reviewing business plans rather than live pitches.
Even YC places a lot of emphasis on the 10-minute interview in the selection
process . So there must be something non-verbal happening, otherwise an
exchange of emails would give founders a better opportunity to present the
case for their startup.
~~~
pg
_not everyone prefers reading to a face to face meeting. If that were the
case, imagine all the VC pitches consisting of reviewing business plans rather
than live pitches._
That's the worst counterexample one could choose. The reason investors want to
meet founders in person is precisely because they care as much if not more
about the people than the idea.
------
bdunbar
_I'm not a very good speaker. I say "um" a lot. Sometimes I have to pause when
I lose my train of thought._
I'm not shining on you when I say this [1]: you are a good public speaker [2].
Perhaps not the best, but you're clearly better than a majority of guys who
get up and try it.
Luckily, the 'um' thing is easily licked. When you catch your self saying
'um', don't. Don't say anything. Insert a pause, and carry on.
You _feel_ like you're taking forever, that we're out in the audience
wondering why you're staring with a vacant look on your face like a slack-
jawed yokel.
You're not. The audience doesn't even _notice_.
And you don't even have to sacrifice any thinking mojo to do this.
[1] No reason to. I'll never submit a pitch to ycombinator [3].
[2] Never seen you in person - but I've watched some videos.
[3] Unless the rules are drastically changed.
------
plinkplonk
@pg,
What do you think about the idea that good teaching involves good 'public
speaking' skills and 'stage presence'? Prof Lewin of MIT for example seems to
be an extremely effective teacher. People do seem to need lectures (even if in
a video form) in addition to books and papers to learn maximally, even when
what is being learned is science or engineering.
(I understand that teaching is about conveying existing ideas from one mind to
another vs generating new ones 'at runtime'. I was just interested in what you
think about the need for "public speaking" skills to be a really good
teacher.)
~~~
pg
It's an interesting question whether lectures are necessary. I've heard
universities are moving away from them. It's obvious why you want a human
teaching a small class; that's a conversation, not a talk. But is there a
benefit to lectures too large to be conversational besides the two that I
listed (meeting the speaker and motivating people)?
It was a while ago, but I can't remember a lot of lectures from college or
grad school that I found more useful than books. When I try to remember
lectures that I learned things from, what comes to mind is professors writing
on chalkboards, explaining things like what happened in memory when some
program was running or showing what happened when you did something to a
matrix. So perhaps the big advantage of lectures is that they're not just
words-- that they can include visual demonstrations.
~~~
pmjordan
I think the effectiveness of lectures might depend on the student as much as
the lecturer.
I can remember some lectures (6-10 years ago) and their content quite vividly,
even if they were fairly unidirectional and to large audiences. I find that if
I start looking up something that was explained in a lecture, it will trigger
the memory of the lecture, even if I couldn't recall it previously. This
almost never happens for things I learned from books or the internet - if I've
forgotten them, I have to relearn them. It also seems to take me much longer
to understand something from a written explanation.[1]
I can only assume it's to do with multi-sensory input having easier access to
long-term memory. And maybe there's an emotional element, too: reading a
(factual) book is an emotionally neutral experience. That's not the case when
you're watching and listening to a human.
And I'm sure the effect is more pronounced in some than in others. Many other
students in my year did very well despite missing lots of lectures; I think I
missed about 5 of what must have been about 2000 and would have needed to do
vastly more revision to pass exams. I suspect I would have dropped out of
university if it hadn't been for lectures. As it turns out, I had essentially
zero intrinsic passion for my subject (physics), but the good lecturers made
it interesting.
[1] I realise this is anecdotal and hard to verify. The most direct comparison
I can think of is this: I remember that when trying to catch up after a
lecture I missed, it took me much longer than the 50 minutes to understand the
covered subject matter using the blackboard notes and reference books.
------
xenophanes
The philosopher William Godwin basically said: if you have any criticism of my
work, or anything to say, write it down.
He thought public speaking relied too much on rhetoric and emotion, whereas
with writing it was easier for a sober consideration of the truth to be the
prevailing factor.
------
lukifer
I now consume as much information via spoken word as via print, primarily
because I can do so during other tasks (laundry, driving), and so I find this
topic phenomenally interesting. Speaking is a radically different beast, where
ideas must be wrapped in rhythm, cadence, tone, volume, to the point of
musicality.
I also adore standup, which pays a great deal of attention to repeating the
same rehearsed ideas in an extemporaneous way. Some comedians do so through
writing and obsessive practice (Carlin, Louis CK), others think well purely on
their feet with no preparation, often based on a background in improv (Proops,
Izzard).
To get a little meta, it's worth cross-referencing these ideas with the
Atheism 2.0 TED talk, which among other things discusses the power of the
sermon to unite a group behind a set of ideas and inspire them to action. For
better or worse, ideas break through your defenses and take root more
effectively if (a) you're forced to absorb them in real-time, (b) you know
other people are taking the speaker seriously, and (c) the speaker is
eliciting the same emotional reactions in others that they are eliciting in
you.
<http://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0.html>
------
abiekatz
pg, I think you are a good speaker. Not in the classic motivational speaker
sense but you do speak with conviction and have a unique voice...both
literally and in what you say. You are one of the few authors that I literally
have your voice in my head when I am slowly reading one of your essays. At
least among your target audience, what you have to say is much more important
than how you say it. So keep rewriting your talks minutes before you give
them, even if it leads you to say um during your speeches. As long as you
continue to say what you truly believe, that'll shine through and you will
continue to be a good speaker in my book.
------
mikeleeorg
This made me think of a presentation I recently gave. The first version of my
talk was packed full of information that was relevant to my audience. Some
advisors encouraged me to reduce the content and increase the emotional
appeal. In the end, my presentation contained 25% content and 75% rhetoric
designed to make an emotional connection.
And they were totally right. The audience loved it.
(Arguably, the information I originally packed into it would have been
overwhelming to this audience.)
In contrast, I heard a talk from pg. It was 100% content. And I loved it.
I think it ultimately depends on the audience. Most people probably
unconsciously prefer an emotional connection to a talk, though there are
exceptions. Some of the most lauded talks on TED make a strong emotional
connection while still imparting some important information, though it's
arguably more emotion than content.
And come to think of it, had I gotten pg's talk in written form, I would have
gotten just as much out of it.
------
cdcarter
It's worth noting that a very good speaker often puts the exact amount of hard
content needed. Many times you can see a bad speaker who is bad, not for their
ums and speaking quality, but because they attempt to put too much detail or
too many points into their speech. This is better for text, where people can
examine at their own rate.
------
padobson
"[A] person hearing a talk can only spend as long thinking about each sentence
as it takes to hear it."
This is where discipline enters. When a speaker says something that fires a
massive neuron in your brain, ignore the next five-ten sentences the speaker
is saying and start writing.
When you're in school, you take notes on lectures to pass a test, so you have
to listen to every sentence. School trains your brain to do this, and you need
to untrain it.
When you're at a conference, you're listening to the speaker so you can do
something (hopefully) excellent with the information they're giving you.
When the speaker provides you with a spark of inspiration, that's when you
need to disengage from the talk and let your own brain take it from there.
You'll only miss a handful of sentences, and you'll pack a thought-food lunch
for later. You'll get more out of the talk then if you try to consume and
register every sentence - many of which won't be nearly as useful.
~~~
cperciva
FWIW, as a speaker I use point-form (aka. "powerpoint", although I do them in
LaTex) slides for exactly this reason -- if someone gets distracted and misses
a few sentences of what I'm saying, it helps them "resynchronize" with me.
------
axiom
Here's the thing about giving talks: people will remember only one or two
things you actually said. As a result the approach one should have to putting
together a good talk is totally different than the approach you should have in
writing a good essay.
In a good talk you want to have one central point, repeat it half a dozen
times, and pad it with a whole bunch of very memorable concrete examples.
That's the only way you're going to make anything stick - otherwise people
won't take away anything.
So the goal isn't to pack as much info and wisdom into a talk as possible -
it's to pick that one central point and try and get people to remember it.
This is of course totally different than an essay where people reading it tend
to be less distracted and have time to read it over if necessary. So you can
be more liberal with how much information you're trying to convey and _how
complex_ the idea can be.
------
abecedarius
This difference bothers me in the new online courses too: most of them use
video lectures. Some of the problems don't carry over (the ones about the
audience as a mass), but some do (sentences going by like a stream neither the
speaker nor the listener can as easily go back and forth over). I feel we're
losing something from when a book was the way to reach an audience, and we
could add the interactivity and a lot of the other new advantages without
losing the benefits of text.
Funny how that line about "The moving finger, having writ" has it backwards
now with text easier to revise than speech. (This remark's an addition to my
original comment.)
------
Blocks8
This seems to miss the distinction between a good speaker and a good speech.
Just as there are good writers and good posts. Speakers and writers require
practice, discipline to improve their craft. Speeches and blog posts should
have purpose, entertain and inform.
The best way to measure a successful speech is to see what the audience walks
away with. Usually, the audience walks away with a few lessons, not verbatim
recall of the words spoken or written. Steve Jobs and J.K. Rowling's
commencement speeches are two of my favorites. Stories provide entertainment
but the lessons they learned are what the audience walks away with: life is
short, chase your dreams.
------
WordofMok
I agree with the general argument that ideas are best capture in writing but I
think there are some important points that are left out in this piece:
1) When you are listening to a talk/speech, you are hearing information at the
speed which the speaker chooses. Less time is given to process individual
concepts unless you're able to rewind. When you are reading, time is less of a
factor. Now think about what this means for writing vs. speaking.
2)The role of the spoken word in teaching should be highlighted. Some people
learn better when they hear something. One great example are the talks on the
site The Khan Academy. Information is being conveyed in spoken and visual
terms to thousands every day and writing is more of an afterthought.
3) I was once given the privilege of delivering the graduation speech to my
university class. Before I prepared my speech, I asked the college president
what advice he had on speaking to such a large audience of peers and parents.
His response was this: "Just have a conversation with your class." I took this
to heart and thought what message would resonate with my classmates who had
worked hard during their academic careers. Now many were going to go out into
the workforce and this undoubtedly would bring anxiety, confusion and
excitement. Tapping into this emotion, I constructed the speech's core idea to
be a simple one: Build yourself a career worth retiring from. It's no
coincidence that I was able to create a speech only after I wrote out my
thoughts and got feedback from the people that I trust. Writing the speech
took 5 days, practicing and perfecting the speech took 2 weeks.
The point I want to make is that writing and speaking are best used in tandem.
You'll never know what you want to say until you can write what you think. At
the same time, after you have written it down, telling others your idea in the
form of speaking is the best way to tweak your idea and get feedback. Perhaps
in the entrepreneurial world, that's why we want to see people pitch their
ideas in public. Think about all the serendipitous/transformative moments that
have occurred when people pitch their ideas through speaking. Surely, this is
a skill which members of the YC Community can do better to embrace as well as
strive to improve.
------
davidkobilnyk
I find PG to be one of the most interesting and engaging speakers I've ever
heard. He's personable, funny, expressive, and unique. I felt like many of his
'ums' were for comedic effect and I appreciated them in that way.
------
j45
I have found speaking to be much more about introducing the dots to the
audience and letting them connect the dots themselves. To do this the dots
have to presented in a very simple form. Sometimes over simplified.
Good writing, goes a step further. Introducing clear ideas in short form, and
then expanding on each is much more indicative of writing that helps explain
ideas. Especially in Tech/Creative/Startup/Media/Design circles, you have a
bit more liberty to do some of the dot connecting for your readers.
------
mhartl
Eliminating the "ums" would lend an amount of polish disproportionate to the
required effort. A friend once told me about a trick she learned from a course
in public speaking: every time a student speaker said "um", the entire class
would chant "um!" in response. With that kind of instant feedback, speakers
quickly learned to pause silently instead of filling the space with sound. You
could try this technique with a practice audience, or—if you were feeling
really bold—even with a real one.
------
PaulMest
I enjoy getting up in front of a crowd of people and helping them learn new
concepts in an entertaining fashion. I have taught classes, delivered
presentations, recorded video podcasts with millions of views, traveled as a
motivational speaker, and performed standup comedy all over the U.S.
What I like about speaking that you don't get from writing:
1) Seeing people's reaction in near real-time. This is a good feedback loop
when you're working on how to explain a new product or feature before
producing an on-demand recording that could be viewed by 1000x the people in
the audience. It's like a focus-group or a series of live A/B tests.
2) A chance to convert the less-dedicated into customers/fans/subscribers. It
seems a lot of people are too lazy to read long articles let alone books these
days. A good video can go a long way. I watched a lecture by Eric Ries and
immediately acquired The Lean Startup for my Kindle.
I think speaking is a great way to get people excited about a topic and teach
them a handful of concepts. If my talk is successful, I will have inspired
many to drill in on the topic later or become a fan of my product, my podcast,
or my standup comedy. I always try to accompany my talks with easy-to-remember
URLs or QR codes so that it minimizes the friction between their interest for
more information and taking the next step.
------
jeffdavis
I think a lot of the value of a talk is that it is constrained. It takes much
less time to read than to hear the same words, so talks must be delivered with
fewer words.
Constraints are paradoxical in a way. Most (all?) forms of art are subject to
constraints, and in some ways are defined by them. That could be a musical
structure, or a medium. After all, wouldn't origami be easier with scissors
and glue? For that matter, maybe you could just use a 3D printer, and it would
look more realistic. But that takes away the art.
So what does the constraint of a talk -- fewer words -- have to offer? I think
it changes the message to focus more on convincing the audience to care about
the topic, and less about the details. In writing, you have to account for
many of the objections someone might raise without being too boring. When
giving a talk, you can just convince the audience to care, and then they will
request clarifications along the way.
Some of those clarifications are during the talk and can be settled
immediately. Some are during the "hall track" of a conference, or in follow-up
blog posts. After a presidential speech, a lot of the clarifications are
handled by the press secretary.
So, a talk is a different structure of information flow, and I don't think
it's inferior in that regard to writing.
------
Lucadg
I am a mediocre speaker and a fairly good writer (in Italian) and I always
wondered wether these two skills are somewhat mutually exclusive. The same
happens to me with learning languages (I'm good, I speak 7 fluently) and
orientation (I get lost after two turns even in a city I know). I agree with
pg in preferring to be able to write well rather than speak well, as the
written word is more powerful in the long term and is a better carrier of
powerful ideas.
------
oskarth
> That may be what public speaking is really for. It's probably what it was
> originally for.
What is pg referring to here? Originally public speaking was the only source
of transmitting information in general, and before Gutenberg probably the most
common one.
On a more practical level, replacing um with silence is a simple way of making
it a lot more enjoyable to listen to. Easier said than done, but I imagine
it's quite a small investment for someone who does a lot of public speaking.
------
Cherian_Abraham
I write fairly well, and I doubt if I could say the same about on stage. I
have to have aids to sum up my thoughts beforehand, and even then I tend to
ramble.
When I write, I almost always have a clear train of thought much ahead, that I
take my reader along for. I can afford to fork at times, where as on stage
this runs the risk of alienating the audience or losing them completely.
I tend to go back and edit a number of times before I publish. Almost always
something I feel is a cogent explanation comes across less so, at a later
read.
None of these, I am able to do when I am on stage. I have to keep pushing
ahead and if I ramble, if I lose my train of thought, then I have to at times
jump a few stops to get back on track. And by then, the punch line that I had
in waiting is almost always half so effective.
And even from the reader/listeners perspective, though a speech has the rare
opportunity to evoke the strongest of emotions, I find it more so in the case
of written word. With a page of text, there is more clarity, less noise, its
just you and lines of clear text, reader to the author. With a speech, the
second time is almost always less effective, the tone may be monotonous, the
visual medium almost always brings along other noise, which combined steals
the clarity of thought.
------
larrys
"Plus people in an audience are always affected by the reactions of those
around them ...
Part of the reason I laughed so much at the talk by the good speaker at that
conference was that everyone else did."
Along the same lines there were (and still are) claques, rieurs etc. whose
sole purpose is to create the social proof necessary for a good performance.
Similar to TV laugh tracks or even the use of music in film and tv.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claque>
------
sidman
I think your right PG but there are some caveats. For one i think to be able
to pass it off that ideas are better then speaking (which i do agree with) you
need to have some clout behind you and prove your worth and you have surely
done that with respect to startups and the tech world. Honestly if anyone else
did the talk you did (new ideas) and delivered it the way you did (lots of
um's) i'm sure the crowed would have passed it of as a lunatic with crazy
ideas who cant even speak. I sometimes empathize and if it was me that was
there I would classify myself as a raving lunatic who cant speak.
I think this is again part of the subset of ideas that looking good and
looking smart is actually better then being smart cause perception is
everything. I personally have always look at whats inside and what the actual
words mean, even when im listening to a song i listen to the words and if they
effect me rather then the sexiness of the singer (like i know most of my
friends do)
I remember watching a movie called puncture with chris odonnel(sp?) where he
was a lawyer promoting safe needles that could save front line health workers
from getting accidentally stuck and the inventor of the needle didn't know how
to present infront of the investors. As a result he got nothing even though he
had a great product with great potential. (the movie was based on a true
story)
So i do agree with you however i think for most of us without much clout still
trying to prove ourselves in the world learning to speak well is just as
important as learning to write and have ideas (i hate speaking publicly but im
trying). If we cant present ourselves to investors or to customers well (or
intelligently) we wont even get into the door :)
------
amasad
There is two links to steve jobs' talks [1][2] that are not rendered because
of some kind of typo. the opening tag of which i believe is intended to be an
anchor tag is "nota" instead of "a".
[1] <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc> [2]
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmG9jzCHtSQ>
~~~
Jakob
This also breaks the Safari Reader (similar to Readability).
------
shiro
"Sometimes I have to pause when I lose my train of thought."
In speaking, pause can carry meaning. A lot of it. It doesn't need to be a
calculated pause; the fact that you're lost there can tell "what you really
are" to the audience, if you're totally engaged to the act of presenting
yourself.
I don't speech a lot but I act. It is often emphasized in acting that words
don't matter much. It is often the case that you convey messages that's even
opposite from what you actually say. In tech speech you don't want too much
subtext, but still, there are more bandwidth in nonverbal channels than the
actual content of the speech. If you only look at the words it might be less
than well thought-out writings, but in speech there is other information.
(BTW, as you find more ideas while writing essays, actors find more insights
while speaking lines---deeper meaning of lines, or deeper understanding of
characters, that sometimes the author hasn't realized consciously. I'd just
say they are totally different things. I prefer finding out deeper meanings of
a given script by acting it out, to writing a new script.)
------
bitsweet
_no coincidence that so many famous speakers are described as motivational
speakers. That may be what public speaking is really for_
By this standard, I'd say PG is an excellent speaker regardless of any
superfluous "ums". I recall back in 2006 at the first Railsconf, I was at
lunch with Martin Fowler (arguably one of the best speakers in our industry
who happened to be keynoting at that Railsconf) and some other co-workers. The
food was was taking to long to come out so Martin Fowler left because he
didn't want to miss PG speak. I had no idea who PG was but figured I shouldn't
miss his talk if Fowler thought it was worth skipping lunch for.
I remember PG literally up there, head down, reading the easy
(<http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html>) for his keynote. It didn't matter
that the audience didn't laugh or that he was visibly uncomfortable. What
mattered was how our thinking was influenced afterward. It certainly
"motivated" me enough to send my life on a completely new trajectory.
------
tlammens
I like the format of a talk to spur my interest in a certain topic. (like the
TED talks)
It would be nice when every talk would be accompanied by a text that deepens
the subject, so I can read more about it.
Although a talk is nice, I am always left with a feeling that it barely
scratched the surface of the topic.
As a side note: pg, you are a very good writer, you should write more books,
please? :)
------
transmitivity
Related: a repo called killer-talks [1] appeared a few days ago on GitHub.
I've not watched them all but the few I have seen (especially the Rich Hickey
talks) are prime examples of exceptional speakers communicating important,
novel ideas.
[1] <https://github.com/pharkmillups/killer-talks>
------
devilant
Paul is right. Writing is definitely the best way to convey and spread ideas.
If you're a good enough writer, you can spark a reformation just by printing
up a few copies of your 95 theses and passing them around. I think writing
unfortunately took a back seat to speaking for the last 100 years thanks to
radio and television, where a small number of charismatic speakers have been
able to dominate the public discourse.
But that is changing again thanks to the internet. Take SOPA for example. SOPA
was defeated not by an influential speaker making an impassioned anti-SOPA
speech, but by blog posts and forum posts and reddit/hacker news posts on the
internet. We're getting closer every day to the world of the novel Ender's
Game, where Ender's brother and sister were able to influence international
politics solely through their anonymous internet writings (something which I
used to think was farfetched and ridiculous).
------
Dbase
I think this post is simply a justification for being better at writing than
speaking. Speaking is a clearer form of conveying ideas than writing. Speaking
is also the most ancient & more evolved form of conveying ideas. Another way
to look at it is via personality traits. Good speakers are usually extroverts,
hacker types are mostly introverts which is why they find it easy to
communicate with themselves than others, let alone an audience. Which is why
they are better at writing words or code but not that good at public speaking.
I think that there is no relation between being smart & being a better
speaker, so it's wrong to call better speakers dumb. Its only a question of
your personality type and that determines whether you will be a good speaker
or bad one. Nothing to do with being smart.
------
roschdal
I don't care that pg says "umm" a lot. The _content_ of the essays and
speeches is what I find interesting.
------
snambi
A speech is like music. In music, the composer goes from low tempo to high
tempo. Every good song will have this pattern of going from low to high and
then descending. Good speech has these elements too. Great orators, present
their ideas with the tempo going up and end with a crescendo. Think Martin
luther King, Obama etc.
Here, the content is important, but more important is the music like rhythm.
Thus, it is more like entertainment, rather than conveying of ideas.
If you are in a live concert, the audience enjoy the music, most of them don't
really understand it. It doesn't have to convey much, except to keep the
audience engaged and inspired.
When conveying ideas, I think one-to-one conversation is best. In the absence
of a one-to-one conversation, a speech that feels like a conversation or an
essay would be best.
------
jeffdavis
"As you decrease the intelligence of the audience, being a good speaker is
increasingly a matter of being a good bullshitter."
I don't think intelligence has as much to do with it as whether or not you've
convinced the audience to care about the topic. If the audience doesn't care,
they will be looking for other ways to pass the time, such as laughing at
jokes.
Now, it may have to do with intelligence or it may not. But I believe my
perspective is more useful when writing or speaking because it leads to a more
obvious solution. Rather than going around looking for smart audiences, you
can instead look for audiences that have a reason to care about the topic, and
then find the most concise way possible to tell them that reason at the
beginning of the essay/talk.
It's also a lot less condescending, quite frankly.
------
BrandonM
Richard Feynman, for me, is the clearest counterexample to this essay. In his
prime, he was one of the top physicists in the field, having some of the best
ideas, and he was still a captivating speaker who could convey complex ideas
in an interesting and informative way.
------
dwd
It's all about the context.
pg once explained essays are his exploration of an idea and I would hazard to
guess in many cases the conclusions are still born out of the act of writing.
<http://www.paulgraham.com/essay.html>
tl;dr Essaying is not about the writer's clarity of thought but the process of
bringing their thought into clarity.
As for professional public speaking look at it in the context of their
motivation and why they are up there: is it to promote an idea, sell more of
their books or simply get invited to speak again? If their goals are being met
then maybe they are an effective (good) speaker. Did it provide real value to
every member of the audience? Only as far as it meets the speaker's goal.
------
capex
It happens with poets too. Some poets used to read their poetry to an
audience, and if it wasn't shallow enough to be understood by the average
person, they were booed. Great ideas need time to be understood and absorbed,
and a listener simply doesn't have the time.
------
forgottenpaswrd
Hi Paul
I do not agree with you, you can be a good speaker and a good writer, but
maybe you need to see it first to believe it is possible.
The main problem is that you don't believe it is possible. Ancient Greeks were
masters of this. Learn a good book about memorization, odds are that you are
are highly kinesthetic so I would recommend you the Greek method of
associating ideas or concepts to places, like the roof, or the person in the
first row, or the chair. Greeks were talking while walking.
You only memorize the ideas in the order that you wrote them and then you can
be free and "fill the gaps".
It is very important that you do not put pressure on yourself to do that but
enjoy it as an experiment. It is really fun and the outcome will be impressive
for your audience.
------
projektx
Regarding Note #4, I've noticed that the Qty=10 number seems to hold true,
maybe its closer to 7. I also think it scales in organizations. How many
industries are dominated by 5 to 10 players? Aerospace, Automobiles, Banking,
Media are a few that come to mind right away. To bring it back to
interpersonal communications, I can manage about 7 people very effectively,
when I get much beyond that I starting thinking about someone running
interference for me. If I knew anything about the way military organization
works, or had ever taken a college level management course, I'd know how I'm
stating some rule of thumb most everyone but me knows about already. I do
enjoy reading your essays Paul.
------
erikpukinskis
My guess is that ideas "get you farther" in writing because you have the
freedom to ditch vast swaths of your audience as you go, and only carry on
with your hardcore fans to the end.
In a talk, you have a fixed roomful of people... an arbitrary, if somewhat
self-selected group. It's much harder to keep 300 people glued to their seat
in an auditorium than it is to bring 300 people to your last paragraph, of the
5000 who clicked through your online essay.
I think it's a great challenge, and in many ways requires BETTER ideas. It
requires you to actually say something that really matters, and that _anyone_
can see really matters. With writing you can get away with pandering to your
base.
------
wahnfrieden
Is Paul Graham only posting this in reaction to the criticism over his
excessive "um"s and otherwise poor public speaking abilities? Is this a good
response to that, to downplay speaking itself as an excuse for. Wing poor at
it? Honest question.
------
bootload
_"... I'm not a very good speaker. I say "um" a lot. Sometimes I have to pause
when I lose my train of thought. I wish I were a better speaker. ..."_
I think the speech degrades somewhat with the audience size and formality but
not the ideas. If you want to see a good example of pg talking, listen to this
great interview where he tears up Berkman fellow David Weinberger interviewing
him on, _'taste for makers'_ , 2006 ~
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2DkhL_Bypo>
I'm glad these speeches are recorded because pg punctuates his essays
verbally. I often find myself copying this style reading them.
------
bbgm
Good speaking, like good writing, is about narrative. They are delivered in
different ways and each approach is powerful in its own right. A good speaker
is often able to get ideas through to a broader audience more effectively than
the written word, and definitely you can connect to your audience in ways you
can't in writing.
It seems somewhat ridiculous to say one is better that the other. Both are
important, both can be effective. Some are good at one or the other. A smaller
number are good at both. Personally, while I love reading essays (including
PG's), listening to a great speaker can be inspiring and present many ideas
and points to ponder.
------
hef19898
Maybe the issue is that its rare for an audiance of a speach to make the
difference between the way the content is communicated and the content itself.
Agreed, in a speach the way is the raison-d'être. But when you are good in
writting, which I'm not, I guess it can ruin your day in a speach that you are
unable to transport your message as you are used to in an essay. If pg meant
that in his essay, I agree that the idea counts less in a speach than it does
in an essay. But you could well make the same point in a speach about essays,
if you get what I mean. P.S.: Apparently, I'm even worse in writing as I
thought...
------
vibrunazo
I agree with most of it. But it _seems_ he is implying that learning to become
a better speaker is linearly proportional, even inversely proportional to
improving your ideas or your writing. I agree you probably make a better use
of your time improving your ideas rather than your speech. But don't you think
there are diminishing returns to how efficient use of time it's to improve
ideas vs speech? Isn't there a point, after which, your idea is already good
enough. That it's more efficient to spend time improving your speech instead
of your ideas?
I believe so. And sometimes I think, maybe, pg crossed that line.
------
israelpasos
I would agree that speaking relates to action whereas writing relates to
contemplation and creation.
I don't believe it's one or the other but rather both being part of the cycle
that enables us to transform our reality.
------
ABS
would be great to get Scott Berkun opinion on this (I enjoyed his "Confessions
of a Public Speaker" <http://www.speakerconfessions.com/>)
~~~
sberkun12
ABS: your wish is my command:
On Speaking vs. Writing: <http://t.co/SYOqGZfm>
~~~
ABS
awesome, thanks!
------
mbh
I am sorry but OP is missing the point here. A good speaker knows his audience
and hence prepares his talk accordingly. If it is techies, he should put for
technical content which stimulates their brain. If it is children of the 3rd
grade, he should know to keep it light and crack jokes or tell stories. A good
speaker will change his speech depending on how dumb or intelligent the
audience is. Thats his trait. Now if he has a large and varied audience, this
task gets a lot harder, but then again there is a trend in the audience.
------
drostie
I like how there was an extremely long silence, and then suddenly there was
one little talk, which had to be posted online, and then that talk mentioned
another idea which had to be posted online, and during that talk you said "um"
too much, which required another post online. I like it because it almost
makes me think that you're next going to blog about how you are blogging too
much and really need to stop blogging. :P
To be fair, I think we also got 3 updates in January? So I imagine it's more a
function of available time than momentum.
------
david927
I think it's the same distinction as telling someone something (as in notes)
and showing someone something (as in art). When you show someone something,
making them experience it empathetically, it can change who they are. They can
accept the information viscerally. Sometimes, strangely, just knowing new
information isn't enough -- we have to feel it.
A good talk can make someone feel emotional, as if they arrived at the
information on their own, and that they "owned" the new knowledge. And that's
a very powerful thing.
------
shazow
pg is certainly not the best speaker I've seen but is one of my favourites to
listen to. Every word has so much value behind it, and the honesty of his
thoughts comes across much better in-person than in-essay.
I notice pg uses footnotes very liberally throughout all of his essays. How do
you decide when something should be a footnote, as opposed to another sentence
or parenthesized thought or simply redacted?
I'm used to footnotes being links and references, not clarifications or
justifications as I often find here.
------
fabricode
Removing the "ums" (a distraction) is a far cry from going to the dark side of
public speaking ("vacuousness").
One insight I had into public speaking was that good speakers pause. There is
white space in their delivery. These are typically the locations where a less
experienced speaker puts his verbal tics.
Just as we prefer well-spaced, paragraph style coding over wall-of-text
maintenance nightmares, we should work towards removing our fear of "dead air"
and let our presentations breathe a bit.
------
VMG
I don't agree that good speakers make the audience dumber. There are and have
been a lot of good speakers that can transmit ideas in an entertaining way
without compromising on content. Christopher Hitchens and Neil deGrasse Tyson
come to mind.
It certainly is hard work to get there, but it may be worth it. For example, I
didn't watch the pycon video because I've seen the comments and can't tolerate
bad sound quality or speech that is difficult to follow. Sorry.
------
Tycho
One added benefit of seeing a speaker rather than just reading an essay is
that you can better judge the conviction in their statements. Lots of people
trim their essays/articles to a state of dry assertiveness, because it's the
expected style. But in person they're more likely to add things like 'and i
spent a long time trying to work this out, and to be honest I'm not sure I've
got it right, but my working conclusion is that...'
------
jakeonthemove
I always wonder how people believe politicians - they are indeed good
speakers, but when you listen closely, it's nothing but filler most of the
time...
------
drumdance
The counter-example is Kathy Sierra. I don't know if she still gives talks,
but her presentations at SXSW several years ago totally change the way I think
about app development. She also had an excellent blog, but her presentations
were even better because she used the slides to both show examples and also
heighten emotional momentum (which in itself the theme of her work - making
your apps loveable).
------
peter_l_downs
"What I really want is to have good ideas, and that's a much bigger part of
being a good writer than being a good speaker."
This is the money quote.
EDIT: fixed formatting.
------
benthumb
A great speech @ Google on a subject directly apropos of pg's start-up spiel:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyNPeTn8fpo>
Another awesome speech from Google's tech talk series (it takes a little bit
of tyrant to pull this off, tho):
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8>
------
technoir
It's funny because there is a good philosophical debate out there on whether
the written or spoken word is better.
Socrates felt that the spoken word was better, since it was less removed from
the truth.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaedrus_(dialogue)#Discussion_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaedrus_\(dialogue\)#Discussion_of_rhetoric_and_writing_.28257c-279c.29)
------
GeorgeTirebiter
"... who was much better than me." "...not merely a better speaker than me,
..."
I apologize in advance for being so pedantic, but the nuns at St. Augustine
School in Pittsburgh used yardsticks on my body to beat this into my brain:
"... who was much better than I (was)" and "... not merely a better speaker
than I (am), ...". Damn subjective vs objective case. Thank you.
------
6ren
The arguments here signify the content of the essay - if it contained only
joke and anecdote, it would be impossible to dispute.
To add my own dispute, content-free writing is possible. Consider some self-
help books; and Ed Catmull described most business books as "content-free" (in
his Stanford Business School talk).
Most public speaking is entertainment - like TV news.
------
antirez
It's hardly so black and white, writing or speaking. For instance tweets are
in many ways more similar to talking than writing, it's not something you
think a lot about, but more like a long conversation where it is important to
keep people interested while actually providing some information.
------
thomasjoulin
I thought pg talk was amazing and inspiring. Really good speaker in my
opinion, this didn't seem like he was reading. I think the only problem are
the obvious and loud "huuuuuh", but that's something he can train himself not
to say. I wouldn't qualify him as a bad speaker. Quite the contrary
------
tmsh
I totally agree with this essay, esp. in regard to ideas that are 'new' and
are still being dynamically formulated.
There is an opportunity cost associated with different 'top ideas' or perhaps
in this case 'top attitudes' in one's mind. If one's interest is in delivering
a great speech, that does impugn upon great thinking.
However, the key is just don't give talks on ideas that are too fresh (unless
you plan on using the feedback and dialogic nature of talks to your advantage
-- but that's less 'talks' and more 'conversations' or Socratic dialogues,
etc.). If the goal is to deliver a great speech, you have to have an idea that
is fixed so that you can spend your energy applying it to the audience's
situation.
Yes, in rare situations one can do both (dynamically eval and dynamically
apply), but they are somewhat overlapping, competing tasks.
ETA. One more quick thought -- making this a long post:
I think a lot of public speaking is giving the audience opportunities to
'latch on' to what one is saying. And it's easiest to do this by repeating
yourself in various different ways that may interest the listener (different
listeners latch on based on different shared life experiences, etc.).
Essay writing is similar. But in that form, you give the reader an opportunity
to pause at any time and re-read or just think about the material. This
advantage in turn means that less repetition (however artfully enhanced in
speech) is required.
People are also better at skimming to what they think is important in essays.
So they will skim over structural 'ums' (style that they don't find helpfully
repetitive). Whereas, in speech an audience will tend to latch onto whatever
is repeated.
Hence, if you choose behavior that focuses on formulation of thoughts
repetitively in waves, extemporaneously speaking is more natural. If you
choose behavior that insists on sifting towards the truth (and I've seen that
recording of PG writing an essay), then written words can be more natural.
Everyone can do both with practice, but they are different I think.
It's incorrect to say one is more 'truthful' than the other. In aggregate,
knowledge among #'s of people in the universe can be about the same with both
(e.g., great speaking brings a lot of people a little bit forwards; great
essay writing and thinking can bring a more limited set a little more forward
-- but the total area may be the same at the end of the day... -- note, these
are generalized examples based on a perceived average type of speech and
average type of essay).
------
davidw
To me it seems like it's worth picking the low hanging fruit in terms of
improving - ditching the 'um' thing, for instance. That's likely something you
or most anyone can do at not too great a cost.
------
tferris
Paul, that's your problem (and you know it yourself):
"Before I give a talk I can usually be found sitting in a corner somewhere
with a copy printed out on paper, trying to rehearse it in my head."
The more your script the worse you are.
=> First, do not try to be like all the great speakers you know, forget them,
don't try to be better than you are or somebody else. Just be yourself and
don't try to be perfect.
=> Forget that you presenting to a crowd, rather think of speaking to just one
person—a good friend (imagine this, would you script a conversation to a
friend?? No!)
=> Never, really never learn a script, that's the worst thing a presenter can
do (ok, you need for very formal und official occasions like political
speeches a script but even then some parts shouldn't be scripted word by
word). Just rehearse the first five sentences of your presentation (to get in)
+ the topics you want to talk about. Before the presentation practice, but
don't take notes just use the few topics to have some rough storyline. That's
enough, the rest will come to your mind by itself. Sometimes you have to think
and you make short pauses but this is normal and makes the speech authentic.
Again THAT'S your problem: you want to be perfect, to deliver a perfect speech
with no mistakes and to go into a presentation with this expectations just
doesn't work.
=> Ideas and the presentation's contents are the most important part of a
presentation (not accurately chosen words). Great ideas are not so important
for the audience as they are for your enthusiasm and charisma while being on
stage. If you haven't got any outstanding idea (good is not enough), don't
present. If you have just one very good idea then do not present 10 other crap
ideas. Look, the content has to be so great that when it came the first time
to your mind you had the urge to call a friend and to tell it to him. If you
are really enthusiastic about your content you don't need a damn script. Or
with other words: your goal is not to deliver a perfect speech for the sake of
a perfect speech, your goal is to transport a brilliant idea. I know that
there many good speeches where the content is not brilliant but that doesn't
matter, important is that YOU/the speaker think the ideas are brilliant.
=> Ultimately, you need tons of self-confidence, that means that you are
really proud of yourself or better your really love yourself and what you are
going to say (basically that's the most important thing; the more self-
confidence you have, the smaller is your need to deliver a perfect
presentation)
=> A final hack: sit while presenting if the circumstances allow (much easier
and good for beginners)
I saw you on some panels, you were very good, charismatic and strong (because
your talks weren't scripted). Don't say you are a bad speaker, you are pretty
good, you just had a bad day or you havent found the key yet. And look: maybe
your presentation wasn't the best but did we stopped liking you? So, no need
to be perfect.
------
forgottenpaswrd
Speaking is way superior to writing, not the other way around like Paul
states. Speaking includes writing.
It conveys emotional information, it adds intonation, gravity, spotlight over
the important information.
About not having time to think about what you hear, that is what ipods and
iphones are for. The ipod sound player has an icon for "repeat last 30
seconds" for that as much as you want.
I can not believe how much Paul insults those that are better than him on this
particular area. I like how Paul writes but it seems that he feels the need to
downplay those who he could learn most from.
Psychology teaches us that in order for us to learn from someone else we need
fist to admire him. Paul is despising those that are better than him in order
to not improve in this area.
------
krishna2
Minor sugg: s/better start/better to start/
In the sentence: "If you want to engage an audience it's better start with no
more than an outline of what you want to say and ad lib the individual
sentences.".
------
tzm
Reminds me of Taylor Mali's poem: "Totally like whatever, you know?"
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKyIw9fs8T4>
------
davmar
oh paul, what a mental block have created for yourself! the first sentence of
your essay is "i'm not very good at __". well of course you're not going to be
a good speaker if you tell yourself that.
you speak to high-IQ crowds and you discuss complex ideas. you don't have to
be a JFK public speaker, but having a "beginner's attitude" and spending a few
hours with a public speaking coach could probably work wonders for you _and_
your audiences.
------
revorad
PG, since you publish your "talks" as essays anyway, why don't you use your
talks to tell interesting stories (from YC or other times of your life)? As
you already pointed out, it's better for the audience too to read your essays
and think carefully about the ideas, rather than react in a linear fashion
with the rest of the crowd.
Stories, on the other hand, like "How YC started" would be much more engaging
to hear from you than read. The content of the stories should be interesting
enough ("Never a dull moment?"), so that you don't have to make any extra
effort to seem interesting.
------
henrikgs
pg strike me as a good speaker. Yes the "uhm" thing was a bit too much on the
pycon video, but I think that is easy to get rid of with a little bit of
training
"Sometimes I have to pause when I lose my train of thought."
A lot of people state this as a fault in their presentation skills, but is it
really? It can be quite powerful and captivating with pauses in an ever
streaming chain of talking, and I really don't think the audience mind.
------
Jimmy
>If you know what you're talking about, you can say it in the plainest words
and you'll be perceived as having a good style.
Clearly PG has never read Ulysses.
------
frigite_
I don't think that pg is a bad speaker. However, if you think you are, why not
consider working on it? Toastmasters or similar might help.
------
aestetix
pg, thanks for bringing this up! It's actually a really dense topic, and there
are a bunch of ways to look at it. Having done an increasing amount of public
speaking over the last few years, I can say from experience that there are a
lot of dynamics at play.
I think you are absolutely correct, prewritten speeches, even if memorized,
rarely translate well into a live speech. They usually come off as either
forced, too structured, and feel like a movie that's been hastily adapted from
a book.
There's a reason for the saying "it's 10 percent what you say and 90 percent
how you say it." Written versus spoken words convey different things. When
you're giving a talk, or listening to one, there's a sort of energy exchange
that happens. A really good charismatic speaker can make every person in the
room feel like they are being directly spoken to, regardless of what the topic
is (Bill Clinton is famous for this). Someone who has just been in the
presence of a good speaker might not remember every word in the talk, but they
have a sense of personal empowerment and motivation to go do or be something.
The written word, on the other hand, _can_ trigger those emotions, though it
engages on a different level. It's an individual, rather than a group
relationship. If you're in a crowd watching a good speaker, you're sharing
that experience with everyone in the crowd. If you're reading a book or essay,
you're sharing that moment specifically with the author, and perhaps with the
topics or characters in the essay.
A lot of good speakers and writers alike will formulate a narrative that
people can relate to. One of my favorite examples of this in writing is
Charles Petzold's book "Code", where he demonstrates how to create a basic
computer, from the ground up. The book in itself is a sort of story, where the
main caricature is the advances in logic and thought over the years. He
manages to take a topic that is often dry and boring (truth tables? binary
arithmetic?) and creates a form people can relate to.
There's also a lot to be said for confidence. If a speaker is confidence,
people in the room will entrust them with a sense of authority. If a writer is
confident, I'm more likely to continue reading on. To describe confidence in a
writer... if you consider a speaker's ability to sidestep "um" and "ya know",
and their control either to not ramble offtopic or to quickly bring their
ramble full circle back to the topic at hand, then also look at a writer's
ability, rather than stumbling around with words, to grasp them and use them
with a magician's mastery. That is, they've gotten past memorizing the
alphabetic building blocks, and began to create more elaborate form and
structures.
Ok, now _I_ want to write an essay on this... :)
------
andrewtbham
There are ways to become a better speaker if you're interested... like
toastmasters.
------
iandanforth
There is very little useful content in this essay, and the arrogance with
which is presented has clearly rubbed some the wrong way. Let's address the
same topic with reminders of what most of us know but might like to have a
handy cheat sheet for.
Speaking:
Lets the audience see your face and body.
Lets the audience connect with your emotional state.
Lets you use humor based on timing, intonation, homonyms, slapstick, etc.
Lets you gesture for emphasis and explanation.
Lets you use rhythm and volume.
Lets you interact with a crowd rather than an individual.
Lets you control the speed and continuity of information transfer.
Gives the opportunity to match words with other dynamic visuals.
And this is with only one person talking on a stage. The superset of oral
communication, of which the speech is a tiny subset, is huge.
Writing:
Can contain far more information in a longer form.
Can contain far denser information assuming that a reader can re-read and grok
at their own pace.
Is much easier to compress, store, transfer and search.
Allows for footnotes, citations, links etc which encompass a freedom of
consumptive flow. (Do I read the footnote now or come back to it?)
Also a bit less clearly, writing:
Is considered more serious. 'put it in writing' vs. 'just hot air.'
Often takes considerably more time to produce, lending it implied value.
May be assumed to be the end result of a great deal of careful thought.
\----
It takes a lot of time to add the skills of persuasion and performance to the
skills of thinking clearly, generating good ideas, and writing them down. It
also means you get to convey fewer ideas in the same amount of time.
Perhaps PG isn't willing to make this tradeoff, but there is a lesser and
necessary tradeoff to be made.
A speech does not have to be an entertaining performance, it can be terse,
information packed, and extremely useful. The annoying thing though is that
for any _public_ speech to work it has a set of things it needs to avoid.
Pauses, twitches, perspiration, clothing faux pas. Stupid things that distract
an _audience_.
While PG is correct that you can have a beautiful content free performance,
that really isn't his concern. What does he care how other people speak?
Instead he should focus on perfecting the basics of public speaking technique
so his audience forgets about the medium and can concentrate on his ideas.
------
nhangen
Yes, he said 'um' a lot. No, it didn't bother me.
We're all only human.
------
ErrantX
Hmmmm.
I think there is an important set of ideas here, I don't necessarily think pg
expresses them well (which might be ironic, given the topic...).
I love to speak. I regularly give talks to my old school, and another school I
went to briefly. Last year I was asked to speak at the university department I
went to, which was fantastic. I also love to write; fiction and non-fiction.
About myself, about ideas, about made up stuff. I started both of these
things, really, in about 2006. At that point I was awful at both -
particularly writing. If I could overcome the nerves I was good at speaking,
but my writing was disjointed and confusing.
The first lesson I learned is; skill comes with practice.
8 years later, I'm still not the best of writers. But I'm not the worst
either. That took me (estimating Wikipedia contribution, forums/message
boards, lengthy emails, blogs, etc.) a significant part of 2 million words.
God it was fun!
Over that time I learned a second thing; which is that speaking _is_ hugely
trivial. And writing requires intense depth.
I used to look at motivational speakers and think "what a lot of bullshit".
Which it definitely is. But it is inspiring bullshit. Speech is about arousing
emotion and interest; a good speaker tries to excite a listener into thinking
about a topic. And leaves them wanting to find out more about it - typically
by reading.
Take "Wear Sunscreen"[1]. Any aspiring speaker _and writer_ should read and
understand how utterly brilliant that piece of address is. I only wish it was
a real address - because that is a writer who damn well understands speaking!
A good writer has a whole lot more tools to her disposal than a good speaker.
For a start she has much more of your attention - it's easy to zone out from a
speaker, especially if it's a guy giving your commencement address or a class
lecture (where you expect some level of droning boredom). Usually reading is a
choice - you are digging into something, and you are willing to process more
detail. For a speaker the attention span is much shorter - the listener can't
pause and run back over the last sentence. They have to consume in real time.
So for me, well, I want to be a brilliant speaker and a brilliant writer. I
want to give you a speech that inspires you, and I want to write about things
that mean something to you.
pg talks about the good speaker and mentions laughter as a tool. He pitches
that as representing a successful talk, but having no depth. I disagree - I'd
say that is a bad talk. Laughter is certainly a useful tool in moderation. But
in my experience newbie speakers, who have progressed beyond the "um" (sorry
pg!) stage into "I want to learn this art", see a laughing audience and think
the nut is cracked.
Far from it! You've got them listening for an instant - but your joke isn't
likely to be inspiring. These speakers are the true hacks - they try to hang
useful things off of many jokes, and largely fail. I'm not a brilliant
speaker, yet, but I think I am past this stage. And what you learn is that a
joke can grab their attention - and then you have a short time to make use of
that interest. Another joke doesn't give them anything... If he walked away
from that talk without any useful information - even a springboard for more
research - then the speaker failed.
If he transcribed those speeches and his had more content perhaps there is
something to consider; could he use the talents of that "good" speaker to hook
the interest of the audience and impart a hunger to read his much more
impressive writings?
The art of speaking is to use these hooks. A joke is the simplest - but there
are many more. Repetition, as exampled by Martin Luther-King, or irony. The
list is really endless.
This is why "Wear Sunscream" is brilliant. The whole thing is a joke, sure;
but it has loads of useful advice as well. The speech shifts around, using all
manner of hooks to keep the audience interested and amused, whilst imparting
advice. And best of all it leaves you wanting to know more.
Which is when the writing comes in.
OK. pg says a lot of the same things as I have; but where he comes off as
being critical of hooky speech, I think it has a good place :) We should all
be better writers and speakers.
Perhaps this is bullshit too, I don't know, it's probably not good writing...
1\. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_Sunscreen>
------
niborsilliw
I am currently trying to get my speaking chops together in anticipation of
launching our game changing, earth moving start up by following the course
that Conor Neil has put together. <http://www.conorneill.com/> Conor has also
offered our budding Barcelona Internet Startup Community a series of workshops
that have served a couple of purposes 1. to make us better speakers and 2. to
unite us as a community. He's terrific. So far so good.
In my life as director of commercials I have often been required to speak to
groups of people. Whether it's a conference call or the "pre pro" meeting
since I be "the man" I have to deliver the goods and coming from the formerly
reticent Portland, Oregon I was not exactly hard wired to be a good speaker. I
also occasionally have to speak at conferences which is an entirely different
experience.
One of my tricks for a small group is to try to get everybody to sit as
closely together as possible and I often try sit between "the client" and
whoever is my big buddy at the agency. Usually it's the producer or the
creative director or the writer. I'm trying to keep this as warm, cozy and
informal as possible. We're all one big happy family. Usually it works.
Production wise we always have our act together. Mood books. Animatics.
Examples from other better, films. Really good casting and the performances to
back them up. And by nature I use a lot of goofy asides (thankfully I'm a
comedy director) and I keep it moving at a good clip. My thinking is that if I
talk fast nobody will actually notice that I have completely taken over the
concept and returned it to the great idea the 22 year intern had in the shower
18 months ago before it was reduce to meaningless drivel by the focus
group/committee/in law review paradigm. We'll shoot both ways is swell way to
get around a conflict. Mostly it works... they usually rub out any creativity
in the editing process but at least we try. So small is beautiful. I'm your
buddy. "See you in Buenos Aires!" Works. And to tell you the truth... it's not
an act. It's me. I'm a natural cub scout activities director. Mostly I like
people. And oddly over the years I have actually become a real chatter box...
which is quite a feat for a Northwestern guy where old schoolers are prone
maybe uttering a guttural groan every six months or so.
The bigger shows are different. I write them. I use marital... sorry visual
aids and make it as tight as possible. I always like to have a dry side and a
wet side. The dry side is the scripted part which I practice a lot and is
hopefully as tight as a drum... ok with lots of incongruous hopefully funny
asides... and the wet side is where I make some poor schlub from the audience
come up and bite creamed corn or something.
I went to Conor's first meet up and was impressed but... it seemed to me that
he was in many ways pretty much just working the room. He was selling. There
was a predictable rhythm to it. Ice breaker. Intrigue, involve, challenge.
Repeat. Good night. We discussed this over emails and for the next session he
completely changed his focus... which was commendable and interesting and much
more honest and compelling.
So my take away from this current focus on public speaking is that I really
don't like the super pros. The folks that could hold an audience in rapt
attention reading a phone book. It's an act and when you actually see through
the smoke and mirrors... there is usually not much there. It's like the "The
Deer Hunter." I left the theater in a daze... and then about 4 minutes later I
decided I had no idea what the film was about.
I watch the TED talks all the time. Here's a favorite.
[http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_crea...](http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html)
Sir Ken is funny. Informal. Self effacing and emotionally and intellectually
compelling... absolutely spot on and I will follow him to hell.
The passionate, inspirational, self important, arm waving salesmen...
forgetdaboutit.
------
ahoyhere
The whole thesis behind this essay is overly facile. A person who is a bad
public speaker -- and admits it -- propounding on The Meaning of Public
Speaking, its worth, and comparing it to acting (when he presumably is not,
and has never been, an actor), and making all sorts of broad sweeping
statements which seem to make sense in the moment the sentence passes into
your brain but which, if examined for a moment, do not hold up to rational
inspection whatsoever.
No citations. No references to other writers, speakers, or thinkers. Just
pure, bald, superficial statement.
I can't recommend more strongly that you read this essay by Maciej Cegłowski,
the founder of Pinboard:
<http://www.idlewords.com/2005/04/dabblers_and_blowhards.htm>
Then this essay on classical style:
<http://t.co/EmDMquOx>
~~~
pg
Can you give any examples of specific sentences I wrote that you believe are
false?
~~~
ahoyhere
Here are some:
_"Having good ideas is most of writing well."_
How did you come to this conclusion? Evidence? Citations? Reasoning?
_"… how much less ideas mattered in speaking than writing"_
Is this based off just the ONE other speaker you mentioned? Any studies? Have
you made a personal study of this yourself? Taken notes? I would like to hear
some evidence or argument to back this up.
_"Being a really good speaker is not merely orthogonal to having good ideas,
but in many ways pushes you in the opposite direction."_
How so? You have sentences that sort of follow this, but you don't actually
explain this statement.
_"The way to get the attention of an audience is to give them your full
attention"_
How do you figure? You've admitted you're a poor public speaker and
particularly at this skill, so how are you an expert on how it _does_ work? If
you've done some research, I'd love to hear it.
_"If you want to engage an audience it's better to start with no more than an
outline of what you want to say and ad lib the individual sentences."_
How do you know? Have you done this successfully? I have lots of friends who
are on the professional speaking circuit (such as it is for tech people --
unpaid, for the hell of it) and I don't know anyone who's an accomplished
speaker (except myself) who does it this way. For their part, they think I'm
crazy for doing it this way. It works for me but I certainly wouldn't say it's
a best practice.
_"Actors do… Actors don't face that temptation except in the rare cases…"_
Are you an actor? Have you researched acting? Have actor friends? How did you
arrive at this conception of how acting works?
_"Audiences like to be flattered; they like jokes; they like to be swept off
their feet by a vigorous stream of words."_
I don't see any proof or further argument to back this statement up. Meanwhile
the way it's phrased makes it very clear about what _you_ think you are bad at
and probably why _you_ don't believe public speaking has much value.
_"As you decrease the intelligence of the audience, being a good speaker is
increasingly a matter of being a good bullshitter."_
Evidence? Argument?
And, fun: by using a loaded word like "bullshitter," you are relying on
emotional reactions instead of appealing to reason or backing up you assertion
with facts.
_"That's true in writing too of course, but the descent is steeper with
talks."_
How do you figure?
_"Any given person is dumber as a member of an audience than as a reader."_
So what you're leading us so delicately to believe is that the audience is
perforce dumb and therefore being a good speaker is largely about being a good
bullshitter. Do you have any argument to back THIS up?
_"Every audience is an incipient mob, and a good speaker uses that."_
This just made me laugh.
_"Just as a speaker ad libbing can only spend as long thinking about each
sentence as it takes to say it, a person hearing a talk can only spend as long
thinking about each sentence as it takes to hear it."_
So you're saying that you have proof that in a conversation, the listener's
entire brain is taken up with listening to each individual sentence, and not
thinking about things that came out of the talker's mouth 30 seconds ago? Or,
we know this cannot possibly be true in regular conversation, but you have
proof it is true in an audience/public speaking relationship?
Also, here you create a false dichotomy only to knock it down: The only good
way to speak is to create an outline then ad lib. If you ad lib, you can only
think about each sentence as it leaves your mouth. Therefore, you cannot be
thinking about what you're saying. Because of course, if you ad lib, you
cannot practice or rehearse, because that would be the same as reading…?
_"So are talks useless? They're certainly inferior to the written word as a
source of ideas."_
As jeffdavis pointed out, this statement is actually totally unsupported. You
didn't actually address _the communicative value of a talk_ at any point in
this essay, you talked about things around (one might say orthogonal) to the
value -- e.g. the audience is a mob, bullshitting, ad libbing, getting the
audience attention, and some statements about how you can only think of a
sentence while you're saying it or hearing it.
I would love to see it if you do have an argument for saying that talks are
inferior to the written word, because as you are probably aware, there is a
lot of evidence that written communication is inferior to verbal communication
-- lower persuasion, higher misunderstandings, more projection on part of the
reader, lower empathy, requiring much MORE written communication for the same
level of understanding as would be reached by speaking.
_"It's probably no coincidence that so many famous speakers are described as
motivational speakers. That may be what public speaking is really for. It's
probably what it was originally for."_
This one is particularly interesting because, of course, the art of rhetoric
dates back to the Greeks and no less than Artistotle himself wrote a scroll on
the many, many uses of speaking, and how to do it, and how to achieve all
kinds of different effects.
It's hard to believe that someone as smart as yourself would make such
statements about the value of public speaking without even mentioning any of
the prior art (e.g. The Art of Rhetoric by Aristotle, or any of the later
thinkers - Francis Bacon, etc).
~~~
pg
Ok, let's start from the beginning. You believe it's false that having good
ideas is most of writing well. Can you give a counterexample? Can you give an
example of an essay you consider to be a good piece of writing, and yet whose
author you believe didn't know what he/she was talking about? Present company
excepted of course.
~~~
dingfeng_quek
ahoyhere and pg's argument isn't clashing - while pg wrote his essay from his
personal experience, ahoyhere demands (or at least appeals to) the
consideration of a broad set of ideas related to a long history of thought and
research.
However, pg's essay is clear that it doesn't aim to be a well-founded research
paper. Although ahoyhere is right that pg's essay will never be recognized as
a good research paper (by intelligent people, i.e. not those who were conned
by the sokhal hoax), the essay is not designed to be one.
pg: I can give examples of great scholarly works where the author is confused,
but the domain is highly specific, and probably outside of your interests. For
less technical subjects outside of expert-to-expert communication where some
spend years to develop new ideas, there's generally less preference for
insight over clarity.
ahoyhere: If you're looking for well-researched expositions in this area, I'm
sure you already know where to look. Hm... But I think today's social-
psych/cognitive research is better than what Aristotle says.
~~~
ahoyhere
PG once wrote:
"I actually worry a lot that as I get "popular" I'll be able to get away with
saying stupider stuff than I would have dared say before. This sort of thing
happens to a lot of people, and I would _really_ like to avoid it"
Here I am, helping… by not letting him get away with saying stupider stuff
than he has in the past.
I am not looking for a "well-researched exposition in this area." I'm looking
for an essay that states baldly things such as "They're certainly inferior to
the written word as a source of ideas." to actually back it up with some
cogent argument.
That's not all that much to ask.
Also: _Hm... But I think today's social-psych/cognitive research is better
than what Aristotle says._ That implies that social psych cognitive research
backs up what pg wrote, and of course, it does not.
------
Porter_423
lol actually this rise from being excessive chatting.I don't think improving
writing skill is not very difficult for the native English speaking country.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Why is HN Search not working? - rajeemcariazo
Has anyone also experienced difficulties in using the HN Search?
======
ymra
It seems to be working here. What symptoms do you have?
~~~
rajeemcariazo
failed to load resource
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Is this illegal? ICO question - asia92
Creating an ICO that uses the generated proceeds to invest in US equities and distributing the dividends to coin holders. Sounds like a good idea but could get into trouble with the SEC?
======
greenyoda
If you're creating a vehicle that invests in equities and distributes
dividends (sounds like a mutual fund), you would need to register it with the
SEC and comply with all the laws and regulations that govern such investments
(e.g., reporting dividend payments and capital gains distributions to the IRS
on 1099 forms, etc.).
------
lordCarbonFiber
You're using an ICO to try to get around the limitations the SEC has on
investing in US equities. IANAL, but Im going to go with YES that's illegal.
And, as a general rule to all looking to get rich quick with ICOs, hire a
lawyer.
~~~
asia92
Well is it really trying to get around SEC limitations?
The only reason that I bring up ICO is because there is a massive amount of
wealth being hoarded in ETH that can be used to generate returns for the
owners.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Referential Accessibility is Critical for Experience of Books - marvindanig
https://bubblin.io/blog/referential-accessibility
======
auggierose
Interesting concept, but flawed. I've been reading through your concerns page,
and it is very opinionated :-) Which is not bad per se, but I think in your
case you just refuse to attack certain problems with Superbooks that are
obvious.
"Strong layout" is just another name for fixed page layout. There is even no
real difference to PDFs. PDFs work great for certain kinds of digital books
like scientific books. BUT, I can only read them on my iPad Pro as on smaller
screens PDFs don't work for me. Now, how does a Superbook address this? It
doesn't. If its fixed layout is pleasant to read on my iPad Pro, then for sure
it is not pleasant to read on my iPhone XS Max.
I agree that current e-books are not the answer yet. I would like something
with the power of PDF fixed layout, but also reflowable. Something that can be
created with a modern reimagining of Latex. That would be a Superbooks, in my
opinion ;-)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
ML turns video of a 360° turn into 3D model of a person - mikeyanderson
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/04/watch-artificial-intelligence-create-3d-model-person-just-few-seconds-video
======
symisc_devel
Link to the paper:
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.04758](https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.04758)
~~~
neonate
And to the video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPOawky2eNk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPOawky2eNk)
------
llao
Oh how I hate marketing speech.
First of all, the title should include "video of a predefined 360° turn".
And then they say something along the lines of "average accuracy of about 5mm"
for joining the constructed modeled joints to their model, while you see the
body wobbling around happily.
This is an impressive demo, but gah!
~~~
dang
Ok, we'll give it a 360° turn above.
------
nitrogen
Structure from motion is an existing technique. What is the contribution of ML
in this case (it seems like joint positioning maybe?)?
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_from_motion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_from_motion)
~~~
ansgri
99%¹ of computer vision problems are 80% solved. The problem is, you need 95+%
solution to be practically useful.
Binocular stereo vision has just approached general applicability, and SfM is
mostly used in very constrained environments (traffic analysis) or with large
computational resources with manual correction (offline 3D mapping from aerial
data).
¹ Numbers are metaphoric only, based on experience in scientific and
industrial CV.
------
raghavkhanna
How is this ML? They use a CNN for foreground segmentation, a minor step in
their pipeline. But the major contribution seems to be putting the silhouettes
in a common reference frame. I sincerely hope sciencemag isn’t putting ML in
the title purely to jump on the bandwagon.
~~~
utkarshsinha
It's someone standing in front of a green screen. You don't need ML to find a
person's silhouette.
~~~
seandougall
To be fair, they do have examples that aren’t chroma keyed; they just lead
with one that is.
Which is not to say that ML is necessary for this sort of computer vision
task, but I wonder if it yields better or sharper results than other
techniques?
~~~
extralego
Same. As someone who has spent an embarrassing amount of time keying and
tracking video footage over the years, I’m surprised ML isn’t being used for
this more often in studios by now.
------
egypturnash
As an artist, my first thought is _I wonder what happens if you try giving
this a series of drawings_.
~~~
make3
you'd probably need a lot of drawings, I wonder what's the sampling rate the
thing uses
it's a cool idea though :)
~~~
seandougall
They say “standard” video is the source, so it would likely be on the order of
30 or 60 fps. Seems to be around a couple hundred frames, give or take, though
I suspect it could get _something_ out of fewer frames, and more would just
incrementally improve the model.
I would expect minor textural differences in a hand-drawn or painted source
would make it a lot harder to correlate points between frames, but it’s an
interesting idea to think about!
------
mtgx
This is what should give you pause before using face authentication technology
for anything.
~~~
haZard_OS
Can you elaborate?
~~~
toomuchtodo
Makes forging facial biometrics easier.
~~~
seandougall
In the case of Face ID, at least, you’d still have to transfer the
measurements into the physical world, in a way that fools a system that has
ostensibly been designed not to be fooled by masks.
~~~
toomuchtodo
Like a 3D printed model?
~~~
URSpider94
Doesn’t work for high quality face reco systems like iPhone X. You’d also need
to get the IR reflectance, as well as a sign of life from the eyes.
------
make3
I wonder if will see a future soon where a director can fully edit the
positions and physical actions of the actors at post production.
basically, the whole scenes will be transferred to believable 3d models
seemlessly, and you can reanimate parts of everything. I feel like that's
doing to happen for sure, for big Hollywood productions at least (like the
Marvel stuff)
~~~
leohutson
This already happens a lot, most VFX heavy productions will have digital
doubles of the main cast, and they can be used for as simple a reason as
reframing a shot.
~~~
extralego
Your comment could give the impression this is drastically more simple to do
than it is in reality. This is considered as something like the last frontier
of VFX, and there still remains a lot of work to be done.
While you’re essentially correct, it is currently an overwhelmingly manual
process. The amount of work and time necessary is substantial (some would say
outrageous), and exponentially higher for certain types of shots. Many shots
remain impossible or cost-defeating.
------
interfixus
It seems determined to put visible toes on everybody, no matter that they're
wearing socks.
Is this a bug or a feature?
~~~
RodgerTheGreat
I'm going to guess they start with a generic human model that includes all
limbs and extremities and then the "machine learning" process attempts to fit
that model to the silhouettes extracted from the video.
~~~
stochastic_monk
Which implies that the technique uses domain knowledge of people to make
assumptions about their morphology.
------
codetrotter
This is awesome. I wish someone will implement this as a piece of open source
software. Imagine the potential!
~~~
raghavkhanna
Source code seems to be available :)
[https://graphics.tu-bs.de/people-snapshot](https://graphics.tu-bs.de/people-
snapshot)
~~~
bahmboo
From site: "We will provide access to the code and dataset soon."
------
meric
Could be used for VR phone calls between long distance couples.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
GlobalSign Root Certificate Problems - tempspace
https://www.globalsign.com/en/customer-revocation-error/
======
tempspace
Dear Valued GlobalSign Customer,
As most of you are aware, we are experiencing an internal process issue
(details below) that is impacting your business. While we have identified the
root-cause, we deeply apologize for the problems this is causing you and
wanted to ensure you that we are actively resolving the issue.
GlobalSign manages several root certificates and for compatibility and browser
ubiquity reasons provides several cross-certificates between those roots to
maximize the effectiveness across a variety of platforms. As part of a planned
exercise to remove some of those links, a cross-certificate linking two roots
together was revoked. CRL responses had been operational for 1 week, however
an unexpected consequence of providing OCSP responses became apparent this
morning, in that some browsers incorrectly inferred that the cross-signed root
had revoked intermediates, which was not the case.
GlobalSign has since removed the cross-certificate from the OCSP database and
cleared all caches. However, the global nature of CDNs and effectiveness of
caching continued to push some of those responses out as far as end users. End
users cannot always easily clear their caches, either through lack of
knowledge or lack of permission. New users (visitors) are not affected as they
will now receive good responses.
The problem will correct itself in 4 days as the cached responses expire,
which we know is not ideal. However, in the meantime, GlobalSign will be
providing an alternative issuing CA for customers to use instead, issued by a
different root which was not affected by the cross that was revoked, but
offering the same ubiquity and does not require to reissue the certificate
itself.
We are currently working on the detailed instructions to help you resolve the
issue and will communicate those instruction to you shortly.
Thank you for your patience.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Attention Disorder or Not, Pills to Help in School - 001sky
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/health/attention-disorder-or-not-children-prescribed-pills-to-help-in-school.html?ref=ushttp://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/health/attention-disorder-or-not-children-prescribed-pills-to-help-in-school.html
======
paulsutter
ADHD as a binary diagnosis seems odd to me. It seems within a normal range of
spectrum that we're all on. Modern schooling and white collar work are so
radically different from the environment where we evolved that it's surprising
how well we've adapted.
Clearly ADHD medications work, which is wonderful. But why do we need to label
people with a "disorder" in order to give them the meds?
Why is psychiatry so dead set on binary yes/no diagnoses, and labeling
everything as a disorder? Is that the consequence of having to code records
for insurance? Something related to prescription laws? Or is it an underlying
mistake in psychiatry to think there is one right way to be, and other states
are wrong?
~~~
WildUtah
_Clearly ADHD medications work, which is wonderful. But why do we need to
label people with a "disorder" in order to give them the meds?_
The drug war paranoia makes it necessary. So does the bureaucratic system that
allows only people with an official diagnosis to obtain any kind of
medication, even mood modifiers that are inherently subtle and personal.
Well, it doesn't prohibit all kinds of medication. Lots of people who are
using adderall (also known as amphetamines, benzedrine, or dexedrine -- a
popular self-administered medicine until the 1970s) and the like would be
using truly dangerous tobacco and liquor if amphetamines were not available.
It's not about insurance. The pills themselves are very cheap to make and most
formulations are not under patent.
As long as we need to put people in jail for using these substances, we're
going to need a way to mark whose use is legitimate and whose isn't. Measuring
who has health insurance and a good stable relationship with a doctor is a
good way to tell whom to imprison and whom not to.
Methamphetamine incidentally is different from adderall only by a single
methyl moiety and has almost indistinguishable clinical effect in matched
doses, though meth has longer lasting side effects due to the hydrophobic
methyl group allowing the medicine to persist longer in fatty tissues.
~~~
grimboy
I think one of the differences with Methamphetamine is that it can and
generally is smoked which gives a much quicker onset and rush which makes it
more addictive.
~~~
malandrew
Not exactly. Only one form of methamphetamine is psychologically active, the
dextrotatory enantiomer. It's different from dextroamphetamine in that it
contains a methyl group that makes it more lipid-soluble, which helps it cross
the blood-brain barrier more easily and protects it from being broken down by
MAO enzymes.
Dexedrine is the brand name for dextroamphetamine, the dextrorotatory stereo-
isomer of amphetamine.
About 75% of Adderall is dextroamphetamine. The other 25% is composed of three
other amphetamine salts.
The main reason methampetamine is smokeable is because it is sold on the
street in fairly racemic crystal form (i.e. it contains both the active
dextrotatory and levorotatory forms). If adderall, dexedrine and other
prescription amphetamine salts were sold in the same form, free of the inert
binders, they'd be smokeable too.
------
carterschonwald
This article conflates a lot of mental health topics via the lens/story of
single family that unfortunately has a wide range of behavior difficulties.
Risperdal is mentioned in the same breath as the standard ADHD precriptions.
This is an anti psychotic which is meant to be prescribed to help manage
recurrent aggressive / violent behavior and has a huge slew of side effects.
In contrast, most prescription stimulants used to treat (actual) ADHD have no
side effects that persist after the cessation of taking the medication.
Likewise, it is well established fact that ADHD medications such as Adderall
and Concerta are only effective when coupled with behavior therapy of some
sort.
The larger picture behind this is that these adhd medications when taken at
their recommended dosages help to make it easier to enter a focused state (as
in the metaphorical sense of reducing the activation energy for a chemical
reaction), and so direct efforts to develop the habits/ behaviors that are
difficult with unmanaged ADHD are needed to attain any long term value out of
ADHD medication.
point being: nothing new in this article, just lots of anecdote and a story
built out of a single families mental health issues. Like wise the statistic
that relevant diagnoses are increasing + a handy quote from a single doctor
does not establish a systematic trend that should call to question the
validity of a health condition.
this is also separate from the question of whether a school system designed
around the time of the industrial revolution is still appropriate today
~~~
calydon
I think you nailed it in your last sentence. Where are the articles that point
out how industrial 'batch' education is no longer serving kids of the present
(the future)?
~~~
Ygg2
Well, as the article says, it's cheaper to medicate children than to change
the environment. That includes the educational system.
------
spodek
I know techy types who like technological solutions and probably felt they
benefited from using such drugs are overrepresented on this site, but did no
one else register the defeatist, victimhood justifications for using the
drugs?
Trying to solve a social problem with technology misses the point. I highlight
these two quotes:
From the article: “I don’t have a whole lot of choice,” said Dr. Anderson, a
pediatrician for many poor families in Cherokee County, north of Atlanta.
“We’ve decided as a society that it’s too expensive to modify the kid’s
environment. So we have to modify the kid.”
_We have to modify the kid???_
Also from the article: “We are effectively forcing local community
psychiatrists to use the only tool at their disposal, which is psychotropic
medications.”
_the only tool???_
Modifying human beings because we have no alternative? If you ask me, the side
effects of this approach are not just the potential side effects of the drug
on the individual, but complacency in not addressing the problems' causes,
creating dependency of a social class on a drug, teaching children to take
drugs to solve problems, creating a belief we have no alternatives,
perpetuating a system that bores children and punishing them for their
boredom, and so on.
Does nobody else wonder what other unintended consequences such a policy might
create, independent of the drugs' safety or not?
~~~
icegreentea
This is kind of reflective of health care in general actually. The system in
use (this isn't just the United States by the way, it's most of the Western
world) is that we live in some state of 'healthiness' for most of our lives,
where we do not interact regularly with health professionals (not just
doctors) - except perhaps a pharmacist to fill some regular prescription.
Our interactions are clustered -after- we are deamed unhealthy. Only once the
need is most urgent do try to become 'healthy' again. This predictably leads
to a culture that favours drugs and surgery as solutions. This is so engrained
that health care practically IS synonymous with drugs and surgery. This bias
exists in everyone, from the health care professionals, to those who are sick,
to those to who are healthy, to those who would lead us. We all have it.
The 'unintended consequences' of such a policy are the problems facing nearly
all 1st world health care systems. Surging costs, potentially unsustainable
growth, constant doubts of effectiveness (and actual questionable
effectiveness in some areas), and in general, a culture that more or less
treats staying healthy as a bang-bang control system.
------
bemmu
Just checked what the attitude on Adderall is here in Japan. From ministry of
health site
([http://kouseikyoku.mhlw.go.jp/kantoshinetsu/gyomu/bu_ka/shid...](http://kouseikyoku.mhlw.go.jp/kantoshinetsu/gyomu/bu_ka/shido_kansa/documents/qa_bringmedicines_070618.pdf)):
"Nobody can bring any medicine containing Methamphetamine or Amphetamine
(Adderall and so on) into Japan. If you are found with any medicine containing
Methamphetamine or Amphetamine illegally in Japan, you can be arrested as a
criminal on the spot, immediately, without a warrant in principle."
~~~
anigbrowl
Japan had an amphetamine epidemic in the 1950s, and has had a major down on
them ever since. Asian countries in general seem to treat drug problems as
something foisted on them by western imperialists, a belief for which there is
_some_ historical basis; but it has also become a convenient narrative that's
preferable to the loss of face involved in admitting that any of one's
citizens might have a tendency towards abusing drugs or be disenchanted with
the status quo.
~~~
dschiptsov
Drug problem is not a political, but social one. It is connected with lower-
class unemployment and general despair. Take a look at modern Russia - it is a
disaster.
~~~
guard-of-terra
Modern Russia seems to suffer more from alchohol than from drugs.
"War on drugs" seems dubious at best since according to official statistics my
sub-division of Moscow has 7 times more alchoholics than it has drug addicsts
(20000 vs 3000 if you're wondering, taken from a newspaper, don't think the
number is any accurate but tend to believe the ballpark)
Efforts are made to make alchohol harder to buy with mixed result (but "mixed
result" is one step better than "no result" we see from the worldwide war on
drugs)
~~~
dschiptsov
It is all much more complicated. Alcoholism affects mostly adult population,
while drugs is mostly problem of adolescents. Sure, young are also getting
drunk routinely, but it affects them much less, and habit isn't that strong.
A typical adult in Russia has so ruined, that he needs very small dosage and
it affect him so heavy, transforms to almost an animal state. Young also have
less tendency to abandon everything and just drink for weeks - they has much
deeper social ties.
Drugs, on the other hand, creates fast and much stronger addiction, they also
changes the mind, the attitude towards the world and life itself much deeper.
Another important factor is that dopers die very quickly, and you cannot see
them suffering on the streets as you could see drunks whenever you happen to
look. Usually, only close relatives have involved in a tragedy and it doesn't
last too long - a year, on average, while drunkards could survive for
decades..
So, problem is here. "War on drugs", is, of course, way to steal more money,
not to offer any help with causes.
Government is involved because it affects their interests. A totalitarian
state needs a cheap, unskilled workforce to build an assets and create wealth
for the top-tier, but it need them sane and healthy. They cannot recruit sick
slaves to serve in Army or to work on a construction sites. That is why there
is a this "war on drugs" posters on the every wall.
And of course no body cares what older population does. If they going to die
from alcoholism - that good for the government - less pension spending.
This is just a very rough outlook.)
~~~
guard-of-terra
Drugs can create fast and much stronger addiction, but I can't say I see it
actually happening much. Neither there are statisics suggesting that it
happens at scale. Of course, some addicts presumably exist, but not enough to
convert the problem from political one to social one (in observable Russia at
least).
It still seems the main reason for war on drugs is mining government money and
political leverage.
------
veb
What annoys me with this, is are we going to get kids going through school,
graduating from University, while taking amphetamines and then coming into the
software industry and working 18 hour days without breaking a sweat?
If so, where's _my_ option to get these meds? Oh wait, I can't because I'm not
ADHD, and because I wasn't "diagnosed" as a kid, it won't happen now.
I really hope the older programmers in our industry won't have to compete with
people-on-drugs in the future... but it'll happen won't it?
~~~
bluedanieru
Aren't racetams a superior alternative anyway, and more easily available?
~~~
masterzora
Superior how? Last I checked there was 0 solid research linking them to pretty
much any effect whatsoever.
~~~
pdog
Racetams, and in particular piracetam, have been studied in an extensive
number of clinical experiments. Their effects aren't poorly understood.
<http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=piracetam>
You might want to filter the research by time to get more recent studies, but
there's a vast body of knowledge built over decades.
------
lucvh
What attention is being paid to the potential long term effect of these
stimulants on the serotonergic & dopaminergic systems of these young people's
brains? Prescribing such powerful neurotoxins to young people who's brains are
still very much in a developmental stage seems risky to say the least.
~~~
Synaesthesia
<http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=67797>
<http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=22166>
<http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=47529>
------
susanhi
Some of the more hazardous side effects of adderall: • Dangerous increase in
blood pressure • Tachycardia or a high pulse rate • Irregular heart rate •
Difficulty breathing • Chest pain • Allergic reaction that includes swelling
and redness in the eyes or throat • Migraine headaches • Syncope or losing
consciousness • Blurry or double vision • Seizure activity and excessive and
uncontrollable shaking • Extreme nervousness and paranoid delusions • Mood
swings that include hostility and severe aggression • Depression
~~~
tdfx
Also note that during college I was a 6'2, 210lb guy who experienced these
effects from adderall with as low as a 10mg dosage. Some kids are prescribed
2-3 times that amount. Luckily for me, I decided it wasn't worth the side
effects and I'd rather deal with any attention problems on my own. I feel
sorry for the kids who never had the choice.
------
sebastianmarr
I find it interesting to what lengths parents go to improve their children's
grades. The fact that grades indeed go up after taking those pills just make
this worse: people believe to see "measurable" success.
“We’ve decided as a society that it’s too expensive to modify the kid’s
environment. So we have to modify the kid." - To me that is the gist of the
article. We failed to provide an enjoyable learning experience for kids, so we
have to make them enjoy it.
~~~
smegel
Or we just switch off the bits inside them that yearn for enjoyment in the
first place. Our kids are either academic robots or suffering from a disorder
of being human, and thus imperfect.
------
dschiptsov
Pills are for the symptoms, not for the causes. The same holds for depressions
and anxiety disorders.
Cognitive-behavior therapy is the way to re-train, re-program, unlearn a wrong
habit.
There are sub-conscious habits, of course, which we cannot "see" without a
training.
~~~
jamesbritt
How is a neurochemical imbalance a wrong habit?
~~~
dschiptsov
It is an effect, usually of flawed behavior. It is not hard-wired or even
inherited.
One might have some genetic predisposition, say, a sensitive Amigdala or
whatever it is, but even then it is possible to behave in such way that you
will keep the level of arousal very low.
It doesn't mean you will not get aroused quickly, it means you will not stay
in a permanent overload of stress hormones, but return to a calm and relaxed
state very quickly.
Unless you have any organic damages or trauma or infection, your mental states
and habitual emotional patterns could be successfully altered.
~~~
jamesbritt
_It is an effect, usually of flawed behavior._
I'd love to see some peer-reviewed citations on this because, honestly, it
sounds like New Age wishful bullshit.
~~~
dschiptsov
Actually, it comes from very old ages.
Is there any peer-review of Tibetan medicine?)
------
lnanek2
I wouldn't be surprised if he loses his license for saying this. I've seen
other doctors lose theirs for prescribing it too much. The government is
really strict on this one, even mandating production limits.
------
throwaway9549
I've lived my whole life with untreated ADHD, and experienced issues all
across life because of it, not just work or school. It took many months to get
the proper treatment for it (i.e. medications), and perhaps it's a good thing
it's that difficult.
But if I encounter anyone who has the "everyone has trouble focusing" crab
mentality that I've had told to me, even by psychiatrists themselves, I'll
punch them square in the jaw.
------
ernesth
I have already seen this Simpson episode
<http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Brothers_Little_Helper>
Since 1999, the name of the drug was changed but the debate seems exactly the
same.
------
guard-of-terra
I see the main problem of said pills in the following: Schools are boring,
horrible and pointless experience. But if you're drugged enough you may just
ignore that and happily buzz along like a zombie. Which in turn will lead you
to not becoming angry with this crap, and not using yourself to change schools
in the future.
Drugs for children seem to breed conformists. And conformism is bad because it
ignores problems until they overhelm and crush the society.
------
wavesounds
"All the medicated geniuses"
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Did you know that China is run by engineers? I didn't. - mtraven
http://omniorthogonal.blogspot.com/2010/10/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-chinese.html
======
est
Chinese here. Did you know that China is run by assholes with an engineering
degree? Seriously, Chinese officials tend to buy a degree to make themselves
look more educated.
~~~
whatajoke
Indian here. There are a few leaders in India who can't speak one coherent
sentence in english, even though they have a masters degree in english,
~~~
skowmunk
I second that. India desperately needs better quality leaders.
(me injun)
------
darwinGod
Singapore's rise as an economic power is also something to be marveled at. The
country was nothing till 1965 when they achieved independence, and separated
from Malasia.
I dont remember where I read this- Singapore government had a similar policy
of choosing extremely qualified people as their top level politicans- Look at
what they have achieved in such a short time!
Would love to learn more about what shaped Singapore politics and their
economic miracle-Please post links, if you have any.
~~~
alizaki
having lived in Singapore for 6 years now, i can tell you its a fascinating
story.
Start with this book: [http://www.amazon.com/Conversations-Lee-Kuan-Yew-
Singapore/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Conversations-Lee-Kuan-Yew-
Singapore/dp/9812616764) \- It's basically a free ranging interview with Lee
Kuan Yew, the man who essentially engineered Singapore.
if you dont want to get the book, just google him and read. Lots of very
interesting articles.
~~~
gbog
Never lived in Singapore but read about it. The trick is apparently to keep
the Confucean culture alive and open it to new technologies. It is exactly
what Chinese reformists wanted to do one century ago, but failed. China is a
bigger stone to roll than Singapore...
Confucianism is not very cool: it's all about respecting your parents, your
spouse, your boss, your friends, and educating well your kids. Not a trendy
form of gouvernment, as it may not allow open rebellion against authorities,
but it worked not so bad for nearly two millenaries, before collapsing under
its own weight. In China they would like to get it back somewhat. NB:
Confucianism is only very remotely related to Confucius' actual teaching.
~~~
drinian
I think that Pa Chin's classic novel _Family_ is a pretty good exposition of
the cruelties of Confucianism, as practiced in the Chinese middle class last
century. Highly recommended.
------
DanielN
There was an article in the economist a few years ago about the dominant
professions of government leaders for various countries. I couldn't find it,
but the basic gist was it is more a reflection of the most accessible prestige
positions in a given country rather than the values of that country. If I
remember correctly the study was inconclusive as to whether this actually
effected governance in any meaningful way.
I'm disappointed I couldn't find the article cause it was interesting to see
the dominance in various countries: engineers in china, businessmen in japan,
lawyers and legacy wealth in the us, lawyers in the uk, teachers and doctors
in france, etc.
------
fhe
it merely reflects what professions attract the smartest students (or at least
the most ambitious) in the different countries. (by the way, Chinese here,
living in China). In the States, 30 years ago, the most ambitious kids went to
study law; in china at the time, the most ambitious/intelligent studied
engineering. A friend of mine from latin america pointed out that in there,
political leaders tend to be medical doctors.
at any rate, I certainly have no problem with china rising, but i sure hope
the China model doesn't gain credit and acceptance, with economic growth at
the expense of sacrificing the environment and personal liberty. I don't know
if the US was anything like this at a comparable stage of economic
development, but lving in beijing for just a couple of days and you'll realize
the heavy environmental toll that the Chinese are paying.
------
BvS
" We're run by a combination of lawyers and lunatics; how could a society run
by wise engineers not surpass us?"
Well, first of all the "lunatics" running the US (and for that matter almost
all democracies) at least don't kill their own citizens for disagreeing with
them. Quite an accomplishment in my view.
Besides you have to put Chinas growth in perspective. They started with an
economy that was closer to the mid-ages than anything. Growing from this base
makes it much easier to get high percentage growth rates over the years. The
GDP per capita ist still more than 12 times higher in the US than in China
which as a whole is still a developing country (according to the IMF).
------
teyc
America isn't exactly a Taliban with nukes. Just yet.
Hoover was an engineer, but that was a long time ago.
I think a country needs more historians at the helm. They might take a
slightly longer view.
~~~
shykes
I disagree. Historians are over-specialized, and seem to always recognize the
particular pattern they did their thesis on, no matter what the subject at
hand.
The same goes for foreign policy majors, who actually run our country.
~~~
teyc
> seem to always recognize the particular pattern they did their thesis on.
That'll only be true if Hoover ran the country like a mine, or Reagan ran the
country like a movie set.
~~~
shykes
The sentence you quoted was about historians. I'm pretty sure your reply makes
no sense at all.
------
devmonk
"Presumably a society run by engineers will at least not neglect to invest in
infrastructure like we do."
Are you considering all of China? I'm pretty sure the U.S. overall
infrastructure is still better than theirs. They wouldn't build up anything
that wouldn't profit the state.
Maybe eventually that will change.
~~~
c1sc0
Maybe not now but it certainly _will_ be in a few years for the simple reason
that they rebuild everything from scratch and can leapfrog technologies. China
doesn't care about being backwards-compatible: they'll just tear down &
rebuild whole districts every few years. And they still have the cheap labour
to do it at a far faster pace than _any_ public infrastructure project in the
western world.
~~~
gbog
Yes, I second that (living in China, they redo ring roads overnight here). I
also heard that in China in one year they currently build more kilometers of
_bridges_ than in US they build kilometers of highways. (No link to back that,
just a hearsay.)
~~~
mrtron
Does China have have many American style highways? When I visited Beijing and
area - the multilane roads weren't connected with overpasses and ramps like
the American system. This resulted in incredibly slow traffic. Also results in
things like the 100km+ traffic jam they had this summer.
Their subway system in Beijing was very large and well connected but was still
overcrowded to the point of being unusable during rush hour.
Such a large population - must be an engineers dream.
~~~
gbog
I had the same feeling when visiting New-York. Their highways have overpasses.
What you saw in Beijing is probably not highways, it is just the normal
8-lanes roads that squares the city. Traffic is a mess in the city, for sure.
I heard they sell 1000 new cars everyday in Beijing, so it is not an easy task
to dissolve the jam. They have a law forbidding every car one day per week,
based on your plate number, so wealthy people buy two, and less wealthy use
public transport or bike once a week at least.
------
johannchiang
It is great for building up the hardware side of nation, but not "software"
side. The cultural advancement is lagging behind the infrastructure
improvement planned by engineers.
~~~
mr_twj
Technocrats understand that technology is the only thing that reduces cultural
lag, _more or less_. _On the other hand_ , artificial scarcity keeps it going
strong. These two processes are inversely proportional in respect to time,
meaning the effect of artificial scarcity will eventually become trivial in
effect on cultural progression as it follows the rate of technological
advancement.
------
skowmunk
Responding to all the comments saying "engineers are better" or "historians
are better" or someone is else better, I think all those arguments are just
moot.
To effectively lead big nations or corporates, doesn't one need to be able to
comprehend and deal with issues much beyond just ones education or work
background?
Wouldn't it require an engineer who understand the non-engineering aspects or
vice-versa?
Once, I got a list of CEOs of fortune 100 companies compiled with their
education background researched. The education column was half full, my
contractor could not find the education of all (nor I think, I could). Of
those, whose education we could find, it was all over the place, engineering,
psychology, accounting, law, chemical and what not.
------
skowmunk
I read an article last year or the year before (could have been in Time or
Fortune). It was about China's Politburo - the 10 men council at the very top
of their administration. They literally set the direction and policies for
their country. Some 6 out of 10 of them had Ph.Ds in Engineering/Science.
That was definitely very admirable, for a country in their position, where
they have to bring out large masses of people out of poverty, as quickly as
possible, you need such leadership.
------
arst
This is about to change. Due to the way seniority and retirement ages are
respected by the Chinese leadership you can track very clear generational
shifts. In 2012 the fourth generation is going to mostly give way to the fifth
generation, which has a much wider educational background. There will still be
plenty of engineers in charge, but also many with majors in the social science
-- e.g. Li Keqiang, expected to be the next Premier, has a PhD in economics.
------
lionhearted
The relative starting points of China and USA are very far apart. Post-WWII,
the United States has had top notch science, commerce, inventing, trade,
entertainment, and been a very desirable location for emigration to. China
went a little differently.
The Japanese attacks ravaged a lot of the wealthiest parts of China, then the
Chinese civil war destroyed a lot more infrastructure, and then the cultural
revolution killed millions of talented people. Deng Xiaoping inherited a real
mess, very little, and it's amazing how he turned it around. Probably the
greatest statesman of the last 100 years, Deng Xiaoping.
The United States is still ahead of China, but USA is trending slowly
downwards where China is trending moderately quickly upwards. Still a lot of
advantages for the United States, and it could get turned around. But yes, a
government run by lawyers and lobbyists is not a sustainable governance model.
We'll see though, things could get turned around pretty quickly in America.
Still the best place in the world for technology, inventing, entrepreneurship,
and research, which is huge. China seems to have emerged as a legitimate world
power though, no doubt about that.
------
anamax
A fairly large fraction of "terrorists" are engineers. Do the same predictions
apply to them?
------
bluethunder
The rise of China will most likely prove the communist model to be the best
model of governance.
The growth that China has seen over the last 20 years has surpassed anything
that any other country has ever achieved - even the US.
And if a country throws up a George Bush for 10 years and then an Obama who
doesnt seem to deliver much, democracy has already lost. Similarly with India,
democracy simply does not work, and Singapore where communism has done
wonders.
Somehow I have always seen an American corporation as having a communist
structure and rarely experimented (mostly unsuccessfully) with a democratic
one.
~~~
drinian
China is not a Communist country, and is not following a "communist model."
Not to mention Singapore -- who on earth are you?
Moreover, China's growth is nothing compared to Japan's economic miracle. The
fact of the matter is that China has far better national resources than Japan
ever did, and should have succeeded decades ago. It was the early leadership
that held it back.
~~~
mrtron
Another Asian tiger, Taiwan is democratic and had one of the fastest and most
sustainable growth stories from the 60s onward.
Their government picked some key industries like semiconductors and invested a
lot of resources towards training a workforce and stimulating business. It has
paid off in huge dividends. All done democratically.
Additionally their recent environmental push is driven by local people and
very democratic - individual recycling rates have skyrocketed. It will be
interesting to see if they can do the same with renewable energy.
~~~
simc
Taiwan's first election was in 1996, though there was very gradual political
reform from 1978 onwards. Before that the Guomindang Party ruled Taiwan using
the sort of party-state capitalist Leninist system that the Chinese Communist
Party rules mainland China with today.
~~~
drinian
A good model, perhaps, for the Beijing government?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Jacob E. Goldman, Founder of Xerox Lab, Dies at 90 - ukdm
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/business/jacob-e-goldman-founder-of-xerox-lab-dies-at-90.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
======
DaniFong
It's really interesting to read this. I had no idea it was John Bardeen who
was instrumental in setting this up. Who knows how the world would have
changed with Zerox pulled the trigger on commercializing PCs.
------
Slimy
This is bigger news than anyone else's death in quite a while, at least in my
mind.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Šta je danas? - bnisevic
http://danasdatum.com/
Šta je danas? Koji je danas dan? Koji je danas datum? Pogledajte na http://danasdatum.com/
======
tzaman
Wow. It shows current date. And a couple of ads. Bravo.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Sysadmin vs. engineering - 0x400614
To be a "sysadmin", does it require a degree? Also, is system admin more like being a technician (electrician), rather than say an engineer. What profession is more respected? Like say Dr. vs Nurse, the Dr wins.
======
jeffmould
I don't think this is a fair comparison. First, neither a "sysadmin" or
system/network engineer specifically require a degree, although a degree can
be helpful in finding employment for either depending on where you want to
work (Silicon Valley less requirement, government contractor probably going to
be a requirement). And I wouldn't say either is more respected specifically,
although you will often find that engineer is a career progression from
sysadmin. However, I know many people that have made great careers and are
highly respected in their field being sysadmins. I would say the engineer is
like being the architect of the building, while the sysadmin is more hands-on
builder and daily maintainer. It is more a preference of what you want to do
with your career. If you like having a hands-on, maintenance, troubleshooter
role then sysadmin is the way to go. If you like building, designing systems,
planning, then the engineer position is the way to go.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
City of Barcelona Kicks Out Microsoft in Favor of Linux and Open Source - SunShiranui
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/7pva50/city_of_barcelona_kicks_out_microsoft_in_favor_of/
======
blackflame7000
I could have sworn I've heard this story before in Germany. It didn't work
out:
[https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-
po...](https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-
ditch-open-source-and-return-to-windows/)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Max Levchin Awards 2nd Annual Prize for Advancements in Real-World Cryptography - tptacek
http://press-release.levchinprize.com/
======
tptacek
The prizes went to Joan Daemen, for AES and SHA-3 (on stage, Levchin pointed
out that his interest in cryptography had been piqued by a xeroxed copy of DES
when he was in school, and that it was an honor to present an award to one of
the people who replaced the DES), and --- more notably, I think --- to Moxie
Marlinspike and Trevor Perrin for their work on Signal.
Last year's winners were Phil Rogaway (a cryptographer of repute comparable to
that of Daemen) and the miTLS team (of Triple Handshake, SMACK, FREAK, Logjam,
and SLOTH fame).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
New Social Media Network Launches Crowdfunding Campaign on Kickstarter - Groupinit
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/742350565/change-the-way-you-socialize
======
sachindevji
How is it different from Facebook?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Absolutely Unbelievable: Richard Stallman Crankin' Dat Soulja Boy in front of the Green Building at MIT [video] - pius
http://www.thenewfreedom.net/wp/2008/01/16/richard-stallman-cranking-dat-soulja-boy/
======
Alex3917
"Please tell us something surprising or amusing that one of you has
discovered. (The answer need not be related to your project.)"
------
sspencer
I can't help but wonder if there is a dusty film in someone's basement of Alan
Turing swing-dancing to Glenn Miller in front of Bletchley Park sometime in
the early 1940s.
Because that is how people will view this in 50 years or so. Awesome!
------
aston
I need _yoooouuu_ to put down the laptop before you start doing club dances.
~~~
jmzachary
Yo! That is Master GPL! Respect or he will pop a cap in your stack.
------
ivankirigin
The best confluence of hacking and hip hop since Monzy's "Drama in the PhD"
<http://graphics.stanford.edu/~monzy/DramainthePhD.mp3>
~~~
edw519
"The best confluence of hacking and hip hop"
That's like saying the best confluence of oil and water.
~~~
pius
Um, no, you're just being arbitrary. Someone could just as easily say that
about hacking and heavy metal. They'd be just as wrong.
~~~
edw519
Isn't calling someone wrong kind of arbitrary?
~~~
pius
I didn't call you wrong. I said you are equally as wrong as someone who says
some arbitrary other type of music is antithetical to hacking.
~~~
edw519
Then I'd also be equally as right, right?
That feels a little less arbitrary.
~~~
pius
Exactly. :D
------
choward93
Every time I hear that song I can slowly feel my brain decompose.
~~~
mojuba
Many GPL'd sources do the same to my brain.
------
henryw
you guys know about 'superman' right? it's nasty.
~~~
rms
in the scheme of slang terms for sexual acts, i would say it is nothing.
[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=superman+dat+...](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=superman+dat+hoe)
~~~
mattmaroon
Yeah, go play poker online, then run the names of your 9 opponents through
urban dictionary. Odds are 2 will be worse.
I just hope the same thing goes for fantasy sports.
------
aquateen
I love the lab coats.
------
getp
About the man: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman>
------
ptn
oh...my...god...he's a better dancer than I am :P
------
mynameishere
He's the worst dancer. I remember reading his bio about how he spent years
training as a folk dancer. Guess it didn't do much good.
~~~
sayrer
I think he is much better than anyone else in the movie. He carries it well at
about 0:20-0:25, while the others look like spastic white people.
------
henning
I'm not that surprised by this, actually. RMS was very big into folk dancing
at one point in his life.
------
altano
So is that like... A macarena type fad? Please explain this to us old folks =\
~~~
kirubakaran
What is a 'macarena type fad'? Please explain this to us young folks ;)
BTW, how can one be "trapped" at 23?
<http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=altano>
~~~
altano
Surprisingly easily
------
Nicolay77
He's just trying to impress the lady in black.
(Or some other lady nearby.)
------
twism
pffft.... lets see if he can do the spiderman
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Should HN require you to click on the story link before commenting? - coderdude
I don't think it's a huge issue here, but I know it happens. (I know I do it occasionally.) You get people who just click on the comments and read them and then based solely on the title they begin to jerk their knee. You can't actually force people to read a story before they comment but you can force them to at least click the link. Maybe since they've already gone through the trouble of clicking through to the story those people would be more inclined to read first before commenting.<p>Just create an outgoing link redirector. Something like http://news.ycombinator.com/out?[url]. Once the site logs that you've clicked the link then you are free to comment.
======
carbocation
Then people will create a javascript tool that auto-clicks any URL on
news.ycombinator.com that it hasn't yet seen in order to enable comments. Or
they'll just tab-open other the links.
~~~
coderdude
Right, it's not tamper-proof. It's not really intended to be. As long as it
forces them to make a habit of clicking the link then we can get more of those
people to read the article.
------
steve8918
What's the point? To increase comment quality? People clicking on the link
would most likely not do anything to improve quality. If you look at the
comments underneath most news articles, you'll see that.
------
edmarferreira
Saving all this clicks and checking who clicked in what will require resources
and will have a small return.
------
Mz
Sometimes people will admit they didn't click the link or read the article but
have something meaningful and valuable to add in response to a specific
comment. I don't see any reason to discourage such contributions by increasing
the burden to participate. It's easy enough to downvote people doing the knee-
jerk thing and making themselves look like jerks. So I think there is already
a mechanism in place for addressing this issue. In most cases, upping the ante
with increasing attempts to control people (which is basically what this
suggestion amounts to) are a net social negative.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: What book are you reading? - pibefision
Years ago, I discovered many great books to read here in HN. I wonder if asking this question again, some new books or interesting lectures can pop up. TKS!
======
tomcam
"Start Small, Stay Small" by Rob Walling. Discusses how to get a one-person
business going for the least possible cost & time.
[http://goo.gl/ztkc3t](http://goo.gl/ztkc3t)
"web2py Complete Reference Manual, 6th Edition Prerelease", by far my favorite
Python framework and being used for my new startup--see above!
[http://goo.gl/2kdl6O](http://goo.gl/2kdl6O)
"Field of Prey", John Sandford, a well-written thriller.
[http://goo.gl/F8QCoe](http://goo.gl/F8QCoe)
------
akg_67
The (mis)Behavior of Markets, A Fractal View on Risk, Ruin, and Reward by
Benoit B. Mandelbrot and Richard L. Hudson.
You may enjoy this book if you are interested in Financial Markets, have some
knowledge of Efficient Market Theory, and aware of existence of Fractal
Geometry.
[http://www.amazon.com/The-Misbehavior-Markets-Financial-
Turb...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Misbehavior-Markets-Financial-
Turbulence/dp/0465043577/)
------
tempestn
Just started _The Power of Full Engagement_ by Tony Schwartz and Jim Loehr. I
believe it was recommended here a while ago. Starts off a bit weak, spending
too much time almost trying to sell you the book it feels like, rather than
getting down to what it's actually all about - you know the type, like those
"motivational" videos that spend an hour talking about how great it works and
how many people have changed their life without ever actually saying what the
___ "it" _is_. But it's not as bad as those, and I'm hopeful that as it gets
into the real content it will be useful, since their general framework makes a
lot of sense. (The key tenant being to focus on managing energy rather than
time.)
I'm also eagerly awaiting the next Patrick Rothfuss Kingkiller Chronicle book.
(Despite the low-fantasy sounding name, the series is _excellent_. I think
it's probably the only fantasy series I would strongly recommend people pick
up despite the fact that it's not finished yet.)
~~~
mindcrime
_I 'm also eagerly awaiting the next Patrick Rothfuss Kingkiller Chronicle
book._
You and me both... I'm champing at the bit for this book to come out. I
haven't been this annoyed waiting for a book since the wait for book four of
Stephen King's Dark Tower series to come out.
------
dangrossman
A Canticle for Leibowitz
> In the depths of the Utah desert, long after the Flame Deluge has scoured
> the earth clean, a monk of the Order of Saint Leibowitz has made a
> miraculous discovery: holy relics from the life of the great saint himself,
> including the blessed blueprint, the sacred shopping list, and the hallowed
> shrine of the Fallout Shelter. In a terrifying age of darkness and decay,
> these artifacts could be the keys to mankind's salvation. But as the mystery
> at the core of this groundbreaking novel unfolds, it is the search
> itself—for meaning, for truth, for love—that offers hope for humanity's
> rebirth from the ashes.
[http://www.amazon.com/Canticle-Leibowitz-Walter-Miller-
Jr/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Canticle-Leibowitz-Walter-Miller-
Jr/dp/0553273817)
------
ccvannorman
Love and Math - Edward Frenkel
A very powerful book, both for its insights into incredible symmetries across
all fields of mathematics (touching on QM and fields), and for the appeal to a
positive and engaging attitude towards an incredibly rich fabric of math
everywhere in the world
========================================
Godel Escher Bach - Douglas Hoffstadter
Using isomorphisms between genetics, programming, and math to understand why
it doesn't make sense to fully formalize a system, and that logic itself
always breaks when you attempt to be rigid, by the very nature of its logical
contsruction. Also a VERY readable book, complete with anecdotal fantasy
stories about animals.
------
cmaxwe
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/233649.The_Great_Hunt](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/233649.The_Great_Hunt)
Book two of the wheel of time.
Have never read them before...it is a lot of books.
~~~
tempestn
One thing to be aware of with that series is that the pace and.. quality take
a serious dip around books 6 to 9. If you find yourself getting bored or
bogged down at that point, it's worth skimming, reading synopses, whatever, to
keep with it, then pick it back up around book 10. Or just be aware that it
gets better again. (Although the first few books were still the strongest IMO,
except for possibly some of the Sanderson stuff. Here's a guide:
[http://jasonrpeters.com/2012/12/11/the-complete-guide-to-
rer...](http://jasonrpeters.com/2012/12/11/the-complete-guide-to-rereading-
wheel-of-time-before-a-memory-of-light/)
~~~
cmaxwe
I am already finding it a bit slow/boring. If 6 to 9 are that bad then I might
end up quiting on it.
~~~
microsby0
Get through book 3 before you give up. The dip in 6-9 isnt great but its not
awful. The series builds slowly, if you really arent into it by book 3, when
most of the story lines have really accelerated, then you can decide
------
brickcap
I just finished Right ho Jeeves by PG wodehouse[1].
I am reading essays in the art of writing by RL stevenson.[2]
I want to read an adventure story next. Moby dick[3] seems to be one of the
most popular ones on gutenberg so it will probably be my next choice.
[1][http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10554](http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10554)
[2][http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/492](http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/492)
[3][http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2701](http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2701)
------
alina24
Hilary Mantel's "Wolf Hall" and "Bring Up the Bodies" \- historical fiction.
Brilliantly imagined life of Thomas Cromwell -
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cromwell,_1st_Earl_of_Es...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cromwell,_1st_Earl_of_Essex)
------
natedawg
Flash Boys by Michael Lewis So far so good, it gets a little complicated at
times when he's trying to describe the different problems in the stock market
(I don't have prior stock market knowledge). All in all, I'm enjoying this
book very much and have less than 100 pages left to go.
------
applecore
_Human Universals_ by Donald Brown. Identifies the traits common to all
humans, all societies and cultures.
[http://www.amazon.com/Human-Universals-Donald-
Brown/dp/00700...](http://www.amazon.com/Human-Universals-Donald-
Brown/dp/007008209X/)
------
mindcrime
Fiction: _Infinite Jest_ by David Foster Wallace
Non-Fiction / Science: _Our Mathematical Universe_ by Max Tegmark
Non-Fiction / Business: _Predictable Revenue_ by Aaron Ross
Non-Fiction / Programming / Tech: _OSGI in Action_ by Richard Hall, Karl
Pauls, Stuart McCulloch, and David Savage
------
wj
Zero History by William Gibson. Half way through.
Pattern Recognition, the first of the trilogy, was my favorite.
------
aruss
_Welcome to the Monkey House_ by Kurt Vonnegut. It's a collection of his short
stories, often funny, sometimes touching, and always insightful.
------
sudheendrach
Just started reading Founders at Work --
[http://www.foundersatwork.com/](http://www.foundersatwork.com/)
------
Ryel
Just finished "Eloquent Ruby"
I usually re-read chapters of Crockford's "Javascript: The Good Parts" until I
find another book to get into.
------
sgy
Founders at Work
([http://www.foundersatwork.com/](http://www.foundersatwork.com/))
------
prateek_mir
Fooled by Randomness - Nassim Nicholas Taleb
------
sk314
Intuition Pumps And Other Tools for Thinking by Daniel Dennett
------
cfredmond
Seven Concurrency Models in Seven weeks - Paul Butcher
------
kovrik
Neal Stephenson - "REAMDE"
and "Clojure Programming"
------
navyad
Flatland by Edwin A. Abbott
------
resist_futility
iOS Programming: BNR
Foundation series by Asimov
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
The Greatest Game You Will Ever Play - llambda
http://thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com
======
eropple
Eh. I've ascended in NetHack four times. It is a good game. It might even be a
great game. But to call it "the greatest game you will ever play" is hubris;
the game has really serious problems once you figure out how to reliably get
past the first ten dungeon levels or so. It picks back up again by the time
you're going back up with the amulet, but almost all of Gehennom is just a
grind. I've lost more characters to boredom than I have to deaths when in
Gehennom. I think that a lot of people conflate an RNG with potentially nasty
outcomes with depth or intricacy, which, coupled with the game's age, gives
NetHack a bit more of a shine than it'd otherwise get.
This is, however, a really fantastically designed website.
~~~
ImperatorLunae
"This is, however, a really fantastically designed website."
I disagree. At first glance, I thought this was another zombo.com. I'm
guessing it's a text adventure, but the site spends more time bragging about
its legacy, not explaining what the game is, as if the legendary status of
this game should be obvious to us mere mortals. The design is good from an
aesthetic point of view, but not from a "getting your point across" view.
~~~
billmcneale
Agreed. The web site also completely breaks text search since it's a mix of
text and graphics. Just search for "nethack" and you will see your search miss
half of the occurrences.
Maybe the author's design sense could be put to good use by improving
Nethack's graphics :-)
------
johnswamps
Great site. But if you're interested in roguelikes I'd suggest starting with
Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup instead (<http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/>).
Nethack's really showing its age these days and is missing a lot of key
features. Crawl is more accessible to newcomers and is less tedious to play.
But it is very much a roguelike in the spirit of Nethack.
~~~
kibble
I agree. NetHack has heritage (and nerd-cred) going for it--but in terms of
raw playability, DCSS has it beat, hands-down. Crawl might also be the most
active modern roguelike in terms of development (a rotating cast of a dozen+
active developers working consistently over several years), whereas, to my
knowledge, all the modern NetHack forks are the works of lone developers.
For players new to roguelikes, I'd also have to recommend DoomRL
(<http://doom.chaosforge.org/>) as a fantastic game, and its shorter length
might appeal to more casual players.
~~~
waterlesscloud
I've spent far too much time playing the Android port of Angband on my phone.
------
jdludlow
After reading the headline, my reaction was "Yeah right. It's not better than
NetHack."
_click_
"Oh"
------
jonnathanson
The game and its relative merits vs. age notwithstanding, this is a really
cool website. It packed quite a lot of text/information into one page, and
more important, it _got me to read every single line_. I was not bored in
reading the text wall; I was actually excited about it. The site turned
reading into a game -- which is thematically appropriate to its message, not
to mention simply fun.
There's a great lesson in product-launch website design here. (Again, putting
aside the fact that NetHack isn't exactly "launching" these days). This lesson
would seem to dovetail nicely with the "Bury Your Sign-Up Button" article
linked the other day.
~~~
britta
There are many interesting and thoughtful aspects of this design, but I found
the fading effects and low-text-contrast parts distracting. Just something to
consider if you're taking inspiration from it.
~~~
jonnathanson
I think that's a fair critique. It's not a perfect execution, and there are
some distractions in it. I still think, however, that the user experience is
novel and interesting, and that it has a great thematic consonance with the
subject matter.
If I were launching an e-book, for instance, I might use something like this
page as a demo of sorts.
~~~
cjoh
It's not just the design -- the writing is quite good, too.
------
Palomides
am I weird in finding the fade-in rather distracting? also the layout of the
body is visually too complicated?
~~~
andrewflnr
I think I agree about the body layout. It's like all the text is just little
to big and jam-packed and busy.
------
5hoom
When I saw the headline I really hoped it would be about Dwarf-Fortress or
NetHack & not some metaphorical "Greatest Game".
Not only is it all about NetHack, it's one of the loveliest bits of web design
I've seen.
Bravo!
------
makira
I don't know about spending countless hours in NetHack, but... wow! great
site! Designer: <http://www.ryanbaudoin.com/>
------
cellis
Maybe this is revolutionary web design?
------
britta
I'd like to see another site marketing Nethack to young people. I came across
it when I was 12 (on some freeware Mac games site), which meant that I ended
up spending a huge amount of time practicing using text-based navigation,
combining text commands for interesting results, finding and reading
documentation, and unknowingly absorbing a bit of the culture of people who
muck around with software. (I also learned a lot of new vocabulary, from
"comestibles" to "quench" to "wakizashi"!)
Fast-forward to when I was 15 and getting interested in software: I was
introduced to using a command line interface for real-life tasks, and it felt
slightly familiar instead of totally bizarre - a valuable feeling for
beginners.
------
tluyben2
I know Nethack and I've played it a long time ago. I thought now; ok for old
time sake, so clicked on Mac. No Lion... So they might want to update that.
Port install nethack installs the terminal version, so it does compile :)
~~~
knowtheory
So i found this thread on Lion + Nethack on Reddit:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/g9f5o/future_net...](http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/g9f5o/future_nethack_for_intel_macs/)
Which points to a Cocoa port of Nethack here:
<http://code.google.com/p/nethack-cocoa/downloads/list>
I'm going to give that a shot :)
------
steve8918
I've been playing this game since the early 80's when it was called Hack,
first on my friend's original IBM PC and then on my XT clone.
After a while, my friend's diskette got an error on it such that reading
scrolls of identify would crash the game, so he finished the game without
reading a single scroll. I have to admit I was impressed by that.
I still play it these days, but mainly when I'm flying on airplanes. It's
perfect because it will last hours on my laptop since it's not power-
intensive.
------
DiabloD3
For those that want people to watch your game, or to watch other people's
games, use <http://nethack.alt.org/>
------
kenneth_reitz
This site is absolutely gorgeous.
~~~
colomon
Yes, more design effort seems to have gone into that site than into the game
itself!
(Nethack is very cool, mind you, it's just strange to have such beauty
advertising it.)
------
Groxx
Noooo! The DS link is busted! Seriously, stuff like this is why I got that
flash cart...
~~~
rcfox
Can't help with the link, but have you seen POWDER?
<http://www.zincland.com/powder/index.php?pagename=about>
There's a DS port for it too!
------
wazoox
For those needing more palatable options, there's the pretty graphical
interface to NetHack, Falcon's Eye:
<http://users.tkk.fi/jtpelto2/nethack.html>
------
xbryanx
A great way to learn the Vim navigation keys.
~~~
eru
Didn't work for me. I use nethack's number pad option. But with a Dvorak
layout, the standard navigation is just too confusing anyway.
~~~
AndyKelley
I switch to qwerty to play NetHack.
------
dkersten
Not bad, but Progress Quest is better.
------
dbbo
I'm not sure I understand this story. Is it basically "check out the design of
this website" or am I missing something? I thought, and the site confirms it,
that Nethack has been around for quite awhile, so that's certainly not news.
Roughly half the comments so far are about how good/bad the game was, and the
other half are about this website, so I'm not sure what is supposed to be
piquing my intellectual curiosity. I also don't mean to put down the site or
the game. I'm just not sure what I'm looking for here.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Barobo launches the Mobot – a low cost modular robot - FEBlog
http://www.barobo.com/
======
FEBlog
My first take on this, more to come.
[http://flexibilityenvelope.com/barobo-launches-the-mobot-
a-l...](http://flexibilityenvelope.com/barobo-launches-the-mobot-a-low-cost-
modular-robot)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
An always-available, online-capable Raspberry Pi in your pocket - incanus77
https://justinmiller.io/posts/2019/09/21/pi-gadget/
======
rcarmo
I’ve been doing this via Bluetooth for a good while now - works great from the
iPad, too.
Here’s my notes:
[https://taoofmac.com/space/links/2019/06/27/0713](https://taoofmac.com/space/links/2019/06/27/0713)
...and a gist with the Pi setup:
[https://gist.github.com/rcarmo/6ad6c09e904c35857bad2dd2769ed...](https://gist.github.com/rcarmo/6ad6c09e904c35857bad2dd2769edf76)
I switched from a Zero to a 3A+, though. The Zero is just too slow to do
anything productively, and the only real issue with the 3A+ is still having
only 512MB of RAM.
~~~
ssivark
Nice! So, how do you use this setup?
~~~
rcarmo
I SSH or VNC into it over Bluetooth to build ARM containers, mostly.
------
ansible
Huh, that's neat.
I'm imagining a follow-on version of this, where the Pi Zero has a battery
backup built into the case.
So at any time your can just unplug it, and it will go into a low power mode,
like sleep on a laptop.
------
newnewpdro
I want something like this, except I want the Pi to be able to directly
interface with the laptop keyboard and display in a way that the laptop's
internal computer can't snoop or otherwise access.
That way the Pi can serve as a secure computing environment sharing the
display and keyboard of my insecure laptop.
On top of that a bunch of neat integration can be added like the insecure
laptop submitting ciphertext to the attached Pi with a seamless switch of
keyboard and display over to the Pi where I can view the plaintext or do other
operations on it, and have new ciphertext sent back to the insecure laptop
with a seamless switch back of keyboard and display. I'm imagining integration
with tools like mail reading software etc. for doing the switching.
Unfortunately USB-C alone isn't going to enable this level of integration, but
I'm optimistic projects like the mntmn reform can facilitate this area of
innovation in the future.
~~~
andai
Is there something like a KVM switch for laptop keyboards? I think on some
models they are attached by USB so it should be possible, if there’s room in
the case (and you poke a hole for a cable to the external device :)
~~~
cylinder714
This almost certainly isn’t what you had in mind, but the NexDock is a kind of
“dumb notebook” that integrates a keyboard and display for smartphones and
single-board computers like the Raspberry Pi:
[https://nexdock.com/](https://nexdock.com/)
~~~
andai
> nexdock + raspberry pi: world’s most affordable laptop!
> $229 (excluding the pi)
> Laughs in $100 ThinkPad.
Seriously though this looks great. And from what I gather it works with lots
of newer phones, and can even be used as a second laptop display.
------
starik36
What are some practical uses of having an RPi W in your pocket?
~~~
detaro
I know some people use them to have a small linux dev environment they can
access from their iPads (without internet).
As a travel router for your devices to relay WLANs with captive portal (and/or
handle VPN etc).
~~~
dTal
Is it just me, or does something seem horribly wrong with the world when your
4-digit-price-tag personal Unix computing device from the world's richest
company needs a 5 dollar hobbyist board to be a useful Unix development
environment?
~~~
nine_k
Nothing is wrong: iPad is mostly a consumption device which does not show any
development interface to the user. Compare it to a music player that does not
expose any music creation interface.
This allows the maker of iPads to change the underlying implementation how
they see fit, without making users notice anything. If iPads started to run a
mickrokernel OS underneath, the UI / UX won't change at all.
The expensive parts of an iPad are the screen, the battery, the QA, and the
brand. The CPU is not particularly expensive, though maybe isn't a $5 part.
~~~
jjeaff
The marketing line for the iPad pro is "like a computer. Unlike any computer"
~~~
Semiapies
For most of the people it's being marketed to, a _computer_ is not a
development system, either.
------
bravura
I've been interested in RPis for a while, but I travel a bit and it's a huge
hassle to onboard to a new wifi network. This is great, does it work for other
RPis besides Zero?
What I would love is to do the RPi wifi configuration wirelessly, perhaps
through bluetooth on my phone.
~~~
kingosticks
Gadget mode is limited to Raspberry Pi 0, 0W, A, A+, and 4.
> What I would love is to do the RPi wifi configuration wirelessly, perhaps
> through bluetooth on my phone.
As I understand it, this is what BerryLan does.
------
CraigJPerry
I've been doing something similar
([https://github.com/craigjperry2/pipad](https://github.com/craigjperry2/pipad))
but i found the PiZero-W just too slow. The 15 min load average was 3+ when
doing something simple like creating a new react app.
I switched to a Pi 3B+ for now but i have my eye on the 4 precisely for the
ethernet over usb idea, although the 3b+ is capable enough for my needs for
now.
------
hinkley
What’s the case in the picture?
~~~
incanus77
Author here. Yep, official case. There is a lid variant with a camera hole as
well as one with the GPIO pins exposed, too, which I'll switch between.
------
1996
It would be better with a UPS. Maybe a LCD screen too. And a speaker, and a
microphone.
Maybe a camera too? Then we could even call it a "cellphone".
Joke aside, any rooted cellphone works much better to run a normal linux
distribution. Become familiar with bootstrapping and crosscompiling.
~~~
detaro
So it works "much better" despite being more expensive if you need to buy one
and apparently harder to use (for the Raspi I can just download a Linux distro
that just works)?
It's certainly interesting, but IMHO not obviously better.
~~~
1996
Your raspberry needs a case, a SD, etc. Cost add up.
Price of a used cellphone: generally nothing, as we all have extra as spares
(and family members do the same). It is self contained.
If you need a brand new one, a ulefone with 6' screen costs as little as $57
all included: [https://www.banggood.com/Ulefone-Note-7-6_1-inch-Triple-
Rear...](https://www.banggood.com/Ulefone-Note-7-6_1-inch-Triple-Rear-
Camera-3500mAh-1GB-RAM-16GB-ROM-MT6580A-Quad-
core-3G-Smartphone-p-1454511.html)
It is ready to be rooted with mediatek exploit.
You get wifi + bluetooth + cellular, a screen (always useful for debug). Spend
more if you want more ram, more processing power. $80 for a IP68/IP69K one,
that's good.
I just can not see how spending more on an elaborate raspberry setup, to have
an overall worse solution in the end can be a better idea.
~~~
inferiorhuman
_Your raspberry needs a case, a SD, etc. Cost add up._
A Pi Zero with WiFi costs about $10, case costs another $10, a name brand 32
GB SD card runs $10, and a 3.5" screen runs about $20 for a grand total of
$50. A screen won't fit in the stock zero case but the zero does have a micro
HDMI port.
_I just can not see how spending more on an elaborate raspberry setup, to
have an overall worse solution in the end can be a better idea._
Well none of that is true, so there's that. As an added bonus you don't have
to exploit security vulns to get root on a Pi.
~~~
1996
Leaving the screen aside, does the PI also has a battery and 1G of RAM?
That's what the $57 new phone has.
EDIT: it was a rhetorical question. Never mind. Keep spending on Rapsberries,
while I will keep spending on waterproof devices with a battery/screen/camera
that are sold as 'phones'
~~~
inferiorhuman
_Leaving the screen aside, does the PI also has a battery and 1G of RAM?_
Well the information is out there and freely available so I'd suggest looking
it up if you're posing an earnest question.
_That 's what the $57 new phone has. _
That $57 phone comes preloaded with an antiquated version of Android and lists
for $80 (the sale ends in two days).
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Pentagon Expands Inquiry Into Intelligence on ISIS Surge - randomname2
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/22/us/politics/military-reviews-us-response-to-isis-rise.html?_r=0
======
jimrandomh
People tend to think of there being a unified "US government", but the reality
is that there's a large number of mostly separate organizations connected only
loosely by a theme. Sometimes they lie to each other. Sometimes they lie to
the politicians in Washington, who are nominally in charge but who seem to
have less real power with every passing year.
~~~
AndrewKemendo
God I wish more people knew this and understood that it's a feature, not a bug
of our system.
In this case, that message is not quite exact because MAJCOM commanders have
the POTUS as their boss. But between state governors, POTUS, Congrees and the
Judiciary, there is an intentional and functional disconnect.
~~~
Nemcue
To the citizens of nations that are being bullied by those organisations it's
NOT a feature.
~~~
hguant
Right, but the concerns of those citizens quite frankly aren't a primary
concern of the United States.
~~~
nitrogen
Governments that maintain such shortsighted positions will eventually find
themselves superseded on the world stage.
~~~
vinceguidry
I'm curious, do you have any examples to point to?
~~~
nitrogen
It's based on intuition and is only a response to the direct parent comment.
If the US of .3 billion people ignores the needs of 6.7 billion people,
eventually those people will find a way to escape the needs of the US.
I'll note that the HN article title used to be significantly different, so
some of the conversation makes less sense without the "accused of lying to the
president" in the title.
------
randomname2
Summary: US Central Command is accused of lying to the President and Congress
about airstrikes and the ground fight against ISIS, obscuring the fact that
America’s strategy to combat ISIS simply was not effective, as "senior
officials" at Centcom were determined to "overstate the progress of American
airstrikes against ISIS."
In September, The Guardian reported that the tendency for Centcom to provide
upbeat assessments of the fight against ISIS may have been influenced by James
Clapper (Director of national intelligence), who was "said to talk nearly
every day with Grove – 'which is highly, highly unusual', according to a
former intelligence official." ([http://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2015/sep/10/james-clapper...](http://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2015/sep/10/james-clapper-pentagon-military-official))
------
otakucode
I don't understand why anyone would be surprised by this. This is par for the
course in intelligence. The intelligence agencies exist to provide whatever
fiction those in power wish to hear. In the 80s, the CIA determined that the
USSR was a paper tiger destined for collapse. But Reagan wanted an enemy. So
the higher-ups at the CIA took the report by the head of their USSR division
and threw it away, crafting their own fictional representation of the USSR as
a powerhouse. This is why every major world event comes as a huge surprise to
the CIA and other intelligence agencies. It doesn't surprise any of the
analysts working there, they actually know what is going on most of the time.
But because the truth is not politically convenient, the agency as a whole
cannot be made to seem like a danger to the political machinations of those
who influence their funding. Some of the gymnastics this involves are
sometimes funny. Reading the CIAs reports on Iran's 'nuclear weapons program',
for instance, are an adventure in absurdism. Pile after pile of pages of
extensive descriptions of total knowledge of Iran's operations culminating in
not a single shred of evidence of any weapons program gets topped off with
"but then again, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There could
be a super-duper-extra-top-secret weapons program buried 50 miles underground"
which gives the politicos and media the ability to report it as "CIA says Iran
may have secret weapons program in new report!"
Oh, and that head of the CIAs USSR division whose report showing the truth of
the USSRs weakness was Aldritch Aimes. It was at that point that he realized
the intelligence game was a sham and just being used to lend an air of
mystique and 'secret knowledge' to whatever position those in power want to
make seem legitimate and decided if everyone else was just playing a game, he
might as well play to, and cut a deal with the Russians to act as a double
agent.
~~~
randomname2
The article says intelligence/Centcom lied to the President and to Congress,
how exactly is this is par for the course?
~~~
CamperBob2
I think the leadup to the Iraq war taught us everything we need to know about
the CIA. They're appointed by the executive. They report to the executive. Yet
every other branch of government relies on their assessments.
The CIA is merely a tool by which the President leads Congress around by the
nose. It's their _job_ to lie. What's harder to understand is why Congress
continually falls for whatever they're selling.
------
rrggrr
It wouldn't suprise me to learn the Obama administration downplayed ISIS
purposefully. Nothing builds a coalition like a common enemy, and apart from
some disagreements over targeting, the key players (Iran, Russia, Europe,
Turkey) are coordinating efforts to destroy ISIS. Economic necesssity requires
the US defense establishment to downsize, and after decades of costly wars in
the middle east, there really is no option but to let others lead this fight.
I suspect the administration is now rebuilding and retooling for high
intensity conflict, and that Syria/ISIS is a distraction the US doesn't need
but a conflict that requires regional actors to form a coalition. To which:
[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-22/russia-
cal...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-22/russia-calls-for-un-
brokered-moves-in-fighting-terror-ifx-says)
------
cowardlydragon
Since operations in Iraq are just a government fraud / boondoggle by the
Pentagon and it's incestuous corporate leeches, this bad attempt at coverup
isn't surprising
------
oxide
Is this not treasonous?
~~~
koenigdavidmj
What person, owing allegiance to the US, is levying war against them or giving
their enemies aid or comfort?
~~~
oxide
Since we call whistleblowers traitors, maybe we should call yes men traitors
too.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Modern Language Wishlist - pchristensen
http://www.lispcast.com/modern-language-wishlist
======
Dn_Ab
Most languages have most of the listed features. The most interesting uncommon
idea on that list to me is model of time. But only when it allows reversible
computing. I don't know how practical that is though. Anyways I've separated
out the parts of the list which I think are less common. And listed examples
off the top of my head so by no means is the below meant to be exhaustive.
The uncommon ones:
* _Units_ \- F# and Frink
* _homoiconicity_ \- Lisps, Prolog, Io, Factor, Pure?, ...
* _macros and extensible syntax_ \- the above list, Nemerle, Dylan
* _Unification_ \- Prolog, Mercury - logic languages. anyone with type inference. anyone with predicate dispatch, a full example of which I do not know. F# Active patterns and scala extractors are close.
* _Error (managing numeric Imprecision)_ \- Best I can understand I can only note that I have seen people treat similar concepts with monads. So haskell and any language which allows easy monads. So scala, f#, haskell, clojure, nemerle
* _Math types_ \- Axiom/Aldor. To an extent, dependently typed languages - not practical. yet?
* _Polymorphism_ \- Although it sounds more like structural typing. So OCaml, Scala. Also F#, haskell partially.
* _Aspects_ \- Metaprogramming makes this relatively easy and clean to implement. so anyone with macros too. Arguably, monads are another way to follow the same philosophy.
* _term rewriting_ \- not common, very niche and not mentioned, but pure-lang allows this and for abstract math programming it is a really fun & powerful concept.
* _pluggable types_ \- F# has this as type providers. Gosu open types. I have used it in F#. At a start, it is a very awesome way to consume an api.
Less Uncommon:
* _pattern matching_ \- most functional languages. to a small extent the java.nexts
* _Immutable values_ \- most functional languages
* _Parser_ \- parser combinators or any language which implements PEGs e.g. Nemerle
* _Design by contract_ \- eiffel and as a library in most languages
* _laziness_ \- the usual functional suspects.
~~~
gosub
I think that the full numeric tower of scheme is what the author had in mind
for Math types: big nums, true rationals, strong sense of exactness, etc...
Also, CLOS (Common Lisp) has after, before and around methods for "aspect
oriented".
------
Mikera
This is basically a desciption of Clojure, in particular:
\- Explicit model of time ([http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Value-Identity-
State-Rich...](http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Value-Identity-State-Rich-
Hickey)) \- Homoiconic / Extensible syntax (shared by most Lisps) \- Math-
oriented numeric types (Clojure maths is arbitrary precision by default, and
it has nice things like rational types) \- Immutable (Clojure data structures
are all immutable) \- Garbage collection (inherited from the JVM) \- String
manipulation (Regular expressions are a built-in type)
Most of the other features actually seem more like libraries than language
features, but given that Clojure can access the entire Java ecosystem I think
you can do all of it from Clojure with relatively little pain.
~~~
jsankey
Clojure is awesome, but does struggle on the "Good error messages"
requirement, which is a problem when you're starting out.
~~~
michaelochurch
I find it interesting that two of the most exciting languages that exist right
now are built on top of the VM for one of the worst ones.
~~~
jsankey
The strength of Java for many years has been the platform, and indeed the
surrounding ecosystem, not the language. In that sense it's no surprise that
there is a lot of effort going in to providing better languages on that
platform.
~~~
exDM69
The reason I'm _not_ using Clojure is that it's based on the Java platform. I
keep hearing that JVM is nice because there are good libraries, but I haven't
figured out what the good libraries are. Sure, there are some nice platform
independent abstractions for common operating system interfaces like file and
network I/O, but it still lacks lots of stuff.
The problem with Java libraries w.r.t. modern high level languages is that
Java libraries are built on Java abstractions. It doesn't matter how high
level the new language is, but when interfacing with Java libs, you have to
stick to single dispatch object oriented programming. So in the end, there are
many cases where you use the Java library through some wrapper layer written
in Clojure or your Clojure code ends up looking a lot like Java.
Once you add a wrapper layer shim between your preferred language and the
platform, it doesn't matter what's underneath. That's why I like to stick to
languages that are built on native code and libraries, C and Posix and Unix
API's with some Linux and/or BSD additions. Of course, if you want to run on
Windows, all the code has to be duplicated since Win API's are different.
------
ryanmolden
This just seems like an everything and the kitchen sink list. I am not
convinced supporting every possible use case leads to an
approachable/efficient language. It seems akin to arguing my car should also
be a boat and an airplane.
~~~
gbog
How far is Python from this list? Macros are missing but the remaining list
seem close to me.
~~~
tomp
Math sucks a lot in Python 2.7:
3 / 2 == 1
Python 3 fixes that, thou, but still it uses floating point numbers instead of
rational numbers.
~~~
lloeki
> it uses floating point numbers instead of rational numbers.
import decimal
import fractions
------
ggchappell
I'll add one that people don't seem to think about much: the ability to
encapsulate an ongoing computation and grab new values from it at leisure.
Examples: Haskell has lazy lists; Python has generators; Unix shells have
pipes; in Go you can whip this up pretty easily with a goroutine and a
channel; etc. Does his ideal language allow for this?
~~~
ericn
I should add controlled laziness to the list.
------
dman
Is it just me or did anyone else feel he was talking about Racket? I have
never understood why Racket doesnt get the love that it deserves.
~~~
errnoh
Is it just me or did anyone else feel he was talking about Go? I have never
understood why Go doesnt get the love that it deserves.
(No seriously, he described Go)
~~~
masklinn
> Is it just me or did anyone else feel he was talking about Go?
That's really just you:
* Go does not ship with a set collection, no literal or convenient syntax
* Go only ships with with doubly linked lists and no literal or convenient syntax
* Go's literal syntax for the Array and Map builtins is significantly less convenient than that of most other languages (including but not limited to statically typed ones)
* Go is not homoiconic
* Go does not have an extensible syntax
* Go does not have math-oriented numeric types (quite the opposite), neither does it have precision errors (I am not even sure it can meaningfully interact with IEEE-754 error flags)
* Go does not have units (as far as I can tell)
* Go does not have pattern-matching, let alone unification (could have made error reporting good, can't have that)
* Go does not have aspects
* Go does not (as far as I can tell) have any special support for writing parsers
* Go has very little support for immutability
* Go does not have an explicit model of time
* I don't think I've seen any built-in structure serializer and deserializer (equivalent to Lisp readers and writers) in Go
> (No seriously, he described Go)
Only if you're completely delusional, skipped about 60% of his list and gave
Go huge leeway on the rest.
Clojure, for instance, is a far better match on this.
~~~
ericbb
Have a look at the "gob" package for serializer and deserializer support for
Go types.
As for the syntax-related points, Go offers quite a bit. There's the goyacc
tool, the scanner package, the template package (think quasiquote), and a
bunch of packages for processing Go code: go/ast, go/scanner, go/parser,
go/printer, go/build, go/doc, etc.
For math-oriented numbers, there's the "big" package. Many languages make such
numerics much more convenient but you can get pretty far with little effort
using just the "big" package.
------
slyall
The most obvious thing I can see that he wasn't explicit about was Unicode
support. Should be native, just work and included from day one.
~~~
ericn
Good one.
------
chops
If you're going to throw everything and the kitchen sink in a language, you
may as well include Erlang-type multiprocessing and message passing.
------
ajuc
\+ 1 for easy serialization. Every language should have equivalent of Python
pickle module.
Sometimes you need specific file format, compatibility between languages,
customization, etc - then pickle is not enough. But for my uses pickle was
good enough most of the time, and it's stupidly easy to use. No need to change
your code in any way. That makes one-off cashing of intermediate results to
file system manageable, implementing save/load game is 3 lines of code
(counting import). I love it, and I miss it in every other language I use.
Javascript has JSON, but writing general code to serialize arbitrary object
graph with cycles, functions as field values, properly storing prototype
chains, etc is still hard.
------
akoumjian
<http://colinm.org/language_checklist.html>
This has never been more relevant.
------
highwind81
This list is more about default library a language should come with rather
than language design.
------
ww520
I am surprised it's not very Lisp-biased.
Anyway, no love for type inference or generic?
~~~
baddox
Except for homoiconicity.
~~~
gecko
Tcl, Forth, Io, and (traditional) Smalltalk are also all homoiconic. You don't
have to have a Lisp to get there.
------
shubber
Wrong: first item should be environments as first class types. Much of the
rest follows. _And_ you can stick it to smarmy common lisp geeks.
~~~
jballanc
This post does a really good job of analyzing first-class environments and
explaining why "first-class environments are useless at best, and dangerous at
worst": [http://funcall.blogspot.com/2009/09/first-class-
environments...](http://funcall.blogspot.com/2009/09/first-class-
environments.html)
~~~
pnathan
I found his argument a bit of a wash. It boiled down to usual critique of
macros, operator overloading, and inheritance: "You don't know what's going to
happen".
Meh, most of the time it's not a problem, when it is, it's for a good reason,
and if it's for a bad reason, you probably should choose a different software
package that is written better.
------
kibwen
Here's one he missed: a good package manager.
Yes, I realize that's not technically an aspect of a language, in the purest
sense. Yes, I realize that this is something that the community can provide.
However, I will argue that any new language that neglects to ship a package
manager alongside the language implementation is doing a disservice to its
users.
Go (goinstall) and Rust (cargo) had the right idea.
------
jwarzech
One thing that always bugs me is that modern languages that ship with fairly
strong datetime libraries still make it a pain to deal with just dates. My db
can handle just a date why does my language need to treat date as some hack on
datetime?
I want 12/01/1980 not 12/01/1980 00:00:00 -5
------
webreac
First need of a good language: have a simple specification. The full reference
manual shall be very concise, complete and readable. Even with a language as
simple as javascript, the specification is a nightmare.
------
apgwoz
Yet, no mention of concurrency/parallelism primitives. _sigh_
~~~
ericn
Good idea. But they do kind of fall under a "model of time."
~~~
apgwoz
In fact, the article does mention concurrency in there. I must have read over
that thinking right away that they meant UTC/ Time Zone issues again. d'oh!
------
Gotttzsche
hmm, what exactly does he mean by data-oriented programming?
iirc that's something where you don't store data chopped up into objects, but
have arrays that keep all the data of one "aspect" of all "objects"... or
something like that. something game programmers would use, helps avoid cache
misses.
is that what he was talking about? if so, what does it have to do with macros?
~~~
ericn
I meant data-driven programming.
<http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch09s01.html>
More data (and data structures) and less code. It's very common in Lisps and
other homo-iconic languages.
~~~
Gotttzsche
thanks :)
------
sambeau
REBOL is the only language I can think of that comes close to this list.
<http://rebol.com/>
------
jhancock
All I want: Smalltalk with tail recursion and a process model like erlang
(implies immutable values).
------
Alind
The more I read this article , the more I feel he is not talking about
_language_. He is talking about _library_.
~~~
genbattle
Yea he mentions language features like interface-based polymophism, garbage
collection, namespaces, first class functions, closures, etc. But then he goes
on to talk about I/O methods, string manipulation, CSV output, etc. By which I
think he means standard library features. The post really should have been
split into language features + standard library features to make it clearer.
I may be influenced by the fact i'm into Go at the moment, but i think it
covers most of the "features" he talks about, as well as many of the
"libraries" (some may not be part of the standard library, but will be
available through 3rd party packages). If the author is reading this, I
encourage him to have a good honest look at <http://golang.org/>
I don't know if i like his discussion of "math-oriented types" vs. "machine-
oriented types". At least as far as I see it (and according to wikipedia[1]),
in maths whole integers (Z) are a subset of rational numbers (Q). When in your
high-school maths class you say 3 + 2.5 = 5.5, you're really doing an implicit
conversion to 3.0 + 2.5 = 5.5 or 3/1 + 5/2 = 11/2. Most languages allow you to
also get rid of the bit-size of numbers by just defining "int" or "float"
numbers that default to some predetermined bit-width (e.g. 32-bit). Most
languages also have libraries or mechanisms (see Go and Python) for large
precision numerical calculation so you can have your theoretically infinite
size "no-overflow" situation; but that comes at the cost of speed, so we only
use these types when it is specifically needed. It's not impossible to use
them in all cases, but it is impractical.
In the end, a language can't do everything. Most languages focus on providing
a good core, along with mechanism for users to extend functionality in any way
they see fit. In this case I think the author wants the language to just do
everything for him out of the box, without any pesky libraries, and without
being bloated or slow. _That_ most certainly _is_ impossible. There is a good
reason why no language implements _all_ of these "features".
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_(mathematics)>
Ed: Z is a subset of Q.
~~~
dan-k
Actually, from a math perspective, it's kind of nonsensical to talk about type
conversion at all. That is, 3, 3.0, and 3/1 are purely notational differences,
and all three represent exactly the same object. Since math is theoretically
infinite precision, the way you write a number has no impact on the way
operations like division act on it, making whether it belongs to Z, or just Q
or R a moot point. Now, if you restrict your problem domain to Z, then that
affects the operations you're able to do to a number and remain in that
domain. That's more like what happens with types in programming; we restrict
our domain by default because leaving the integers changes the computer's
representation of the number in a way that affects its behavior.
~~~
SamReidHughes
Kind of. But you might say that rational numbers are ordered pairs of integers
and positive integers, real numbers are Cauchy sequences of rationals, and
complex numbers are ordered pairs of real numbers, and the real number 3 can't
be added to (2+i) without converting it to a complex number first.
~~~
dan-k
Those are all valid ways of conceptualizing those sets, but I don't think it
changes the point I was making. The real number 3 doesn't need to be
"converted" to a complex number to be added to 2+i. 3 is always both a real
number and a complex number, which may be represented as either 3 or 3+0*i,
and either way gives 5+i when added to 2+i. All the latter notation really
does is clarifies what domain you're currently working in, and even so, I've
never seen anyone write it out explicitly.
Type conversion is more like if you had the written number 3 and a picture of
the point 5 on a number line and someone told you to add them. Naturally, you
would write 5 as a number first, because you don't have a useful way to add a
number and a picture. But this doesn't change the results of adding the
quantities 3 and 5; it's purely an artifact of the way the information was
presented to you.
------
michaelochurch
Clojure and Scala are both there, except on idiomatic libraries (you might
have to use Java libraries).
Clojure wins on simplicity of syntax (Scala has a rule that operators ending
with ':' associated to the right, which makes an incredible amount of sense
once you understand the language but is annoying and arbitrary to beginners)
and homoiconicity. Scala wins on pattern matching and robustness (static
typing). I'd use Scala for a game, because it's fast (both in terms of human
and CPU performance). Both are great languages.
~~~
nickik
Because Clojure is a Lisp we have macros and with macros comes a lot of power.
Clojure has a full powered pattern matching library. See this:
<https://github.com/clojure/core.match>
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Op-Chart - How Green Is My iPad? - asnyder
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/04/04/opinion/04opchart.html
======
nnutter
How the heck does this guy come to the conclusion he does? E-reader is
somewhere between 40 and 100 (N) books so that means books are more
environmentally friendly? The conclusion I draw is that you only have to read
N books and it becomes a net positive. If you are the type that buys an
e-reader my guess is you'll buy more than N books over its lifetime.
~~~
Frazzydee
I think you may have misinterpreted the conclusion. 3rd para from the bottom,
he says:
"How many volumes do you need to read on your e-reader to break even?"
------
sliverstorm
I hesitate to believe the numbers for the iPad and the Kindle are that
similar. For starters, the iPad has a more sophisticated processor, and the
battery has 4.3x the capacity of the kindle battery (which suggests 4.3x the
rare compounds if the batteries are made with similar tech).
Add on power consumption during reading, and things are even more different;
the Kindle can be read for 2 weeks on one charge. 24 hours x 14 = 336 hours.
The iPad uses the same juice in just 10 hours / (4.3x as large) = 2.3 hours
In other news, I most certainly will be reading more than 50 books in the
lifetime of my Kindle, so hooray :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: How do you handle jealousy of well-compensated software engineers? - oefrha
This post is mainly targeted at HN readers who are good at programming but are not professional software engineers, with a focus on academics and aspiring academics. I know there are plenty of us here.<p>Say you were exceptionally smart as a kid and dreamed of being the next Einstein, Gauss, etc. You went to a top college, by which point you should have realized that you're not really a child prodigy, but you're still among the brightest. Then you went onto a top grad school (in a non-CS field), by which point you realize you're now competing with equally smart people, and there are bound to be losers.<p>Meanwhile, you discovered programming at a young age and love it. By the time of your grad school career, you've been programming for north of a decade and you're pretty decent, but don't have flashy projects to show for since you've been focusing on your main academic area for the most part.<p>However, you have software engineer friends/acquaintances who started programming only in college, who are probably less technically capable and less passionate, who nevertheless got into FAANG or similarly well-compensated companies right out of college, pulling in six figures right off the bat.<p>You? Your grad school stipend is peanuts, and in a crowded field you're looking at multiple terms of postdoc even if you're modestly successful. You're nowhere near any achievement you dreamed of, the future is unclear and probably unexciting (statistically speaking), and your paycheck sucks. It's hard not to feel jealous, especially when research is going nowhere.<p>So, how do you deal with this? I'm interested in perspectives from both people who stayed in academia, and people who left. Other comments and observations are of course also welcome.
======
alexgmcm
I left academia (Computational Neuroscience) to work in Data Science.
Some of my best friends stayed in and are now postdocs (I left the PhD with
the consolation master).
I'm in Europe so the difference in compensation is nowhere near as big (tech
pays less here and grad school pays more) but really it's about what you want
to do.
If the compensation is the most important thing then you won't be happy in
grad school, equally if the research isn't fulfilling you then you might as
well work in industry and earn more.
My friends who are happy in research are those who are working on things they
really love (in High Energy Physics etc.) and wouldn't exchange it for the
higher salaries (and less freedom) of industry.
For me, it wasn't the pay that turned me off academia but the insecurity - you
can study it for years just to be cast out of the field when you can't get a
permanent position and in the meantime you continually have to move which
makes serious relationships very difficult.
Basically it's a compromise - I think I made the right choice, but perhaps had
I better chosen my field in grad school (maybe if I had stayed in Phyiscs?) I
would have preferred to stay - I certainly wouldn't say industry is always
better.
~~~
oefrha
Your point on insecurity is spot on. Your concerns are my concerns as well.
Compensation is just (the most quantifiable) part of the insecurity formula
that plays a greater part in my case.
Funny you mentioned hep; I happen on work on hep-th. Do I love the subject?
Absolutely. Is compensation the most important thing? Absolutely not. However,
I've learned over the years that appreciating other people's successful work
and actually trying to build on top of that are pretty different, and the
handful of successful theories I love are really built upon the (life-long)
failure of thousands and thousands of nobodies, and I'm very likely to be a
nobody, given that I'm not thrown of the train of nobodies in the first place.
It's just natural to think that if I'm going to be a nobody, I might as well
be compensated well for that (and not making my head explode all the time),
like _that guy_. The thought really puts a dent on the "love", and I'm
personally (maybe just me) much more prone to exchanging pure passion for
something more tangible.
> higher salaries (and less freedom) of industry.
Depending on the definition of freedom, when you have a "jobby" job it's at
least easy to separate work and life, whereas in academia, at least in the
theoretical branches, it seems much harder to draw boundaries. (I'm not saying
people in the industry don't work hard.)
By the way, glad you're happy with your decision.
------
ThrowawayR2
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, I suppose.
Yes, compensation is vastly better as a software developer, _if_ you don't
mind working on uninteresting rubbish in a stultifying business environment
for your entire career, which is what the vast majority does. Even if you
decide to value money over intellectual stimulation (I won't judge; having
creature comforts is indeed comforting), there's no guarantee that
compensation is going to stay that nice forever; people are literally flooding
into software and that's bound to drive wages down at some point.
Personally, I'd give a lot to be in academia; I'm damned sick of the rat race.
~~~
oefrha
There's very stressful competition in academia, especially in early academic
careers, so depending on the place and person the experience could be
stultifying as well. You could also work on uninteresting (or at least
unimportant) rubbish in academia, or you could work on interesting stuff that
doesn't deliver; in either case you're heavily published for that. No one
gives a damn about "ten years of experience" if you weren't producing quality
papers on a regular basis within that period (actually, in that case ten years
of experience might be worse than no experience).
> that's bound to drive wages down at some point.
Yeah. But at least in my field, the pay is guaranteed to suck in the early
career (we're talking close to a decade here), and won't get that much better
afterwards, assuming you're successful. Kinda hard to fall that low.
I guess it does boil down to grass greener on the other side of the fence for
the most part.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Cheerleaders and the NFL - enitihas
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/18/nfl-nba-cheerleaders-lawsuits-sports
======
mark_l_watson
Another good reason to enjoy sports from local school teams. I still watch the
super bowl and a few World Series games, but for me watching professional
sports is not interesting.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Use GitHub as your Blog - sant0sk1
http://github.com/blog/164-use-github-as-your-blog
======
mrtron
Just a warning because I always fall into this trap:
When you hold a large hammer, everything looks like a nail.
------
there
is there a contest going on to see who can have the biggest rss icon on their
site?
~~~
axod
probability user will accidentally sign up to rss feed = size of icon / total
screen size
~~~
yan
That would be accurate if your visitors were bots whose job it was to hit a
truly random point on the page.
------
thomasmallen
I'm sure most of the readers would prefer that the blog be on WordPress.
------
raganwald
_It's fun using technology in a manner which it is not intended._
A sentiment I can applaud. Bravo!
------
ashu
Funky, but bizarre and not sure it is very reader-friendly. (or even author-
friendly, for that matter since most authors spend a lot more time reading and
searching the stuff they write.)
------
atog
Nifty! Good thinking, I like it :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Free to Play [video] - bowmanb
http://store.steampowered.com/app/245550/
======
markus-rogue
yea yea yea
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Company in Oz replaces lightbulbs with CFLs for free - makes money selling carbon credit - jwilliams
http://www.lowenergy.com.au/eshd_index.html
======
netcan
These guys must be making a mint. They caught me on my way out, scheduled a
time to come back, then when I cancelled at the last minute, came again. All
they got where 3 bulbs, but they still seemed pretty pleased. More persistent
then door to door mobile phone guys.
I guess this is like a super simple case study in carbon trading, pitfalls &
all. How many credits should these guys be getting?
In my case, I probably would have replaced those bulbs anyway. In other cases,
the incentive can be weirder. For one thing, There's a double jeopardy going
on here. 1. Individual feel-goodness of the guy who traded in his bulbs 2.
Individual feel-goodness via the carbon market.
Both are getting credit here. I feel like I'm lowering my emissions. But since
those credits have been sold, someone else is emitting them in my place. They
do the equivalent of taking my 100W bulb & plugging it into their wall with
the fuzzy feeling that even thought they are emitting carbon, it is being
offset. We are both claiming credit.
That's before the perverse incentives kick in. Why should I pay $8 X 10 to
bulb my house with low watt bulbs when I can pay $0.50 X 10 to do so with
cheap bulbs & call in these guys?
~~~
jwilliams
_But since those credits have been sold, someone else is emitting them in my
place._
I know what you mean - but they will be paying to emit them, which will set up
an economic basis in the long term.
~~~
netcan
Sure, it may eventually. If they _need_ to buy them to do whatever it is they
want to do & I sell because I want the money. But at the moment this is just a
way of cashing in public sentiment towards climate change: at a bad rate.
~~~
jwilliams
Why at a bad rate?
Companies are compelled to do this in Australia (amongst others) due to our
Kyoto targets, etc.
~~~
netcan
_Why at a bad rate?_
I feel like I am saving X watt hours & the purchaser does too. So they (the
company) are trading in 2X watt hours "emotional credits" (the utility of this
market) for 1x watt hour savings.
Of course, that's an exaggeration. I lost my drive & ability to save those
emissions by replacing my bulbs, but it's not 100% certain that I would have
done so anyway.
_Companies are compelled to do this in Australia (amongst others) due to our
Kyoto targets, etc._
Are they? I don't think they are directly. The Government is probably
subsidising this & other efforts but there is no compulsion to purchase carbon
credits. They Get bought by bus companies, airlines, etc. They are basically
also riding on public sentiment.
------
astrec
Nice idea, but given the Commonwealth Government will pass legislation to ban
incandescent light bulbs in 2009/10, this product has probably has a fairly
limited life. My local supermarket has already stopped stocking them for the
most part.
~~~
cdr
With LED bulbs making steady gains, CFLs also definitely have a limited life.
Maybe these guys will be back in a few years picking up your CFLs.
------
hhm
This is brilliant. One of the best ecologic business ideas I've seen in a
while.
~~~
jwilliams
Yeah, I was really impressed when I heard about it.
Makes you wonder if there are carbon credits in other areas (e.g. Computers,
Data centres? Who knows).
Water is also a big issue in Australia. With the right legislation in place
around water you might be able to do the same with water-saving measures.
~~~
netcan
Water is _way_ easier. Could turn water into a working market in 6 months,
given the political support. Water is something that is much easier to
control. In fact, it's already controlled. All you need to do is limit supply
(via mostly government "owned" resources) to whatever you deem to be a
reasonable level, & charge for consumption. The smaller players (people with
dams on their land) will follow.
You could even have the government manipulate prices by literally 'flooding'
the market when necessary.
------
patrickg-zill
Carbon credits are a scam.
~~~
mynameishere
Unquestionably. What they ultimately do is reward the unproductive for their
great virtue of being unproductive.
If the purpose was simply to reduce the amount of CO2 produced, then
governments would agree to a common tax: x number of dollars per metric ton of
CO2, period. Instead of that, the money transfer occurs between different
entities. This rewards countries that aren't capable of significant CO2
creation, CO2 creation being a signal of a first-world, productive country.
~~~
dejb
If they agreed to a single common tax for carbon creation it would still end
up as a transfer from high carbon producing countries to lesser ones. They
wouldn't just burn the money collected or something, it would be
redistributed. So the developed world would end up shouldering most of the
cost. In my view that is only fair and natural. If the US had agreed to Koyoto
we would probably be close to negotiating that very situation about now.
~~~
mynameishere
_it would be redistributed_
I certainly don't suggest that it would be a _global_ tax. Rather, a globally
consistent tax. All money would stay within the given countries.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Subsidiary for startups - danielzenchang
My cofounders want to establish a subsidiary company to spin off a new service. The only reason for doing that is to satisfy existing investors because we used their money to build the new service. I want more opinion about this issue... Personally, I don't think that is a good idea because the subsidiary will be controlled by the parent company (to let investors to have a cut of it) which might affect followings;
1. No investor is willing to invest that kinda subsidiary company especially the parent company is only Pre-A without a clear growth.
2. Early employees might have less motivation for this subsidiary startup. (because it loses part of the fun part of being a startup: doing the way you want)<p>We should either stay at the same startup or spin off an independent startup but not to make a subsidiary. Existing investors can still have better term to invest in the new startup. Anyway, I am trying to let members know this isn't a good idea but it seems the knowledge I have isn't enough for them...<p>Any suggestions?<p>Thanks!
======
brudgers
From the description I see two orthogonal issues.
1\. Is the new business model better from a business standpoint than the
current idea?
If yes, forget about a subsidiary and pivot all resources to the new business
model. How that is done depends on the second issue:
2\. Are the investors suitable for the new business model? [where "suitable"
means willing to maintain their investment following a pivot.]
If no, then folding the existing company and starting a new company is an
option worth considering. Such a case illustrates what YC means by "investing
in people rather than ideas".
On the other hand, if the answer to the first question is no, then the idea of
a subsidiary has a high probability of forming a distraction for a resource
constrained company.
Finally;
A. Adding a subsidiary just complicates the legal structure of the company and
therefore is likely to discourage investors.
B. A company can have two or more products without forming a new legal entity.
Good luck.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Computational science: ...Error - solipsist
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101013/full/467775a.html?ref=nf
======
b_emery
Lots of good advice for scientists in there. The only new info for the typical
CS grad is the utter lack of _any_ programming training in most scientific
disciplines.
This is pretty classic:
> "To all scientists out there, ask yourselves what you would do if, tomorrow,
> some Republican senator trains the spotlight on you and decides to turn you
> into a political football. Could your code stand up to attack?"
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Wada hacking scandal: debate turns to the use of powerful legal drugs - bootload
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/14/wada-hacking-abuse-debate-theraputic-use-drugs
======
supergirl
> He points out a further worrying issue with TUEs: in the past some athletes,
> such as Lance Armstrong, have been allowed TUEs retrospectively to escape
> possible bans, as the American did after testing positive for
> corticosteroids in 1999
I'm curious how many other cases like this exist. Starting to sound like a
pretty big loophole.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Covid-19 Vaccine Generates Antibodies and T-Cells in Phase I Trial - lowmemcpu
https://www.biospace.com/article/astrazeneca-s-early-covid-19-vaccine-data-show-a-double-defense-against-the-virus/
======
bobblywobbles
This is promising news, nothing for certain, but promising. Thanks for
sharing.
------
lowmemcpu
The Full title did not fit, so I did my best to make it fit. Here it is:
"Report: AstraZeneca's COVID-19 Vaccine Generates Antibodies and T-Cells
Against the Virus in Phase I Trial"
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Zwift raises $450M investment; Series C round led by KKR - troydavis
https://news.zwift.com/en-WW/191648-zwift-raises-450-million-investment-series-c-round-led-by-kkr
======
troydavis
The VC arm of Specialized Bicycles is one new investor. Zwift plans to start
making hardware:
> The investment will be used to accelerate the development of Zwift’s core
> software platform and bring Zwift-designed hardware to market, making Zwift
> a more immersive and seamless experience for users.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Think before you ask in mailing list - ronbeltran
http://groups.google.com/group/webpy/browse_thread/thread/fe57d2abd72f49fa
======
chromejs10
I remember my AI Professor telling us about the teddy bear solution where,
before you ask a question to someone else, pick up a teddy bear and ask it.
More often than not, saying it out loud will most likely answer your question.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Some hope for getting rid of patent trolls - FpUser
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/11/04/open_invention_network_will_pivot_to_take_on_patent_trolls/
======
FpUser
I wish software patents were eliminated as a whole but here at least
something.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Protolol Jokes - angadsg
http://protolol.com
======
mirkules
I once told an Objective-C joke, but nobody got the message.
The thing about NTP jokes is you have to get the timing right.
I broke up with Java last week, and I still couldn't get any closure.
(I could go on, but I'll spare you - yes, I just thought of these, is it that
obvious?)
~~~
kirubakaran
Please go on. These are awesome.
~~~
mirkules
Alright...
Java is write once, run anywhere. Perl is write once, turn and run.
OO is like real life: you inherit properties, you cheat a little, then you get
divorced, and you're left with an old, broken model
Bash is named after the monkey who successfully typed out Hamlet.
Korn shell was named after the band, and even though America won the cold war,
UTF-8 was a notable casualty, so we couldn't use the backward R
The whole class was confused after Jimmy sang 10 little endians and stopped at
the second one.
Thank you, I'll be here all week.
~~~
mirkules
I realized this morning that Jimmy should have stopped at the first little
endian.
~~~
CoffeeDregs
Nah. he should stop after the tenth (second). iterate over (0,1) , but sing
(1,10) or i+1. excellent jokes.
EDIT: Oh crap. Was that a joke about stopping on the first endian? If so, I
just committed a classic geek fail...
~~~
mirkules
I was referring to "little endianness", where the least significant bit is on
the left, which makes 10 = 1, whereas in big endian it would be 2 :)
~~~
aneesh
Not quite right. In a little endian system, the least significant _byte_ is
the leftmost one (ie, lowest address). The order of bits within a byte is the
same regardless of endianness.
So 10 is always 2.
~~~
mirkules
Ah, well I stand corrected, Mr. Hamming :)
------
akent
What was wrong with the plain text version?
<http://attrition.org/misc/ee/protolol.txt>
Much easier to skim through quickly.
~~~
nocipher
<http://protolol.com/archive>
------
kloc
Since I get all the protolol jokes and I am sure there are very limited number
of people on this earth who gets them, I feel like I am part of some
technology brotherhood and that makes me feel good :)
~~~
ay
Oh, so you have SCTP and DCCP support too ?
------
CJefferson
Some of those are suprisingly funny. I would really like to see some kind of
voting / sorting option, so the better ones can float to the top (although
that would break the ...fragmentation... jokes)
~~~
phsr
Would it? Part of the joke is that it may never get there ;)
------
jrockway
Too many jokes from yoshicool. One of these puns is funny. One about every TCP
protocol from 1 to 1024 is ... unfunny.
Did you hear the one about HTTP? Transfer-encoding: chunked.
(See? Not funny.)
~~~
ay
For the HTTP joke to be funny, you would need to sniff the content-type first.
------
ez77
Interesting to see a seemingly premium domain devoted to geeky jokes, with no
ads or solicitation.
~~~
angadsg
I was amused by #protolol jokes on twitter. Wanted to collect them in one
place. Wrote a simple GAE python application that would search for a
particular hash tag and post the selected tweets to your tumblr blog. Fixing
some usability issues. Will post the link soon :)
------
sharjeel
The problem with HackerNews jokes is that you get labelled as Redditer and get
downvotted
------
limmeau
I'd tell you an X11 joke, but you don't have the PROTOCOL_JOKE extension.
etc.
------
blinkingled
The problem with Java Reference jokes is that you have to continually
reference them. Otherwise they just become garbage.
------
icandoitbetter
There might actually be some educational value to this.
~~~
zarify
I just linked a bunch of them into one of my networking modules for my
highschool kids. Little evaluation exercise on whether they understand the
concepts or not :)
~~~
shii
Wait, your highschool kids don't have tumblr yet?
------
mcburton
I'd like to share my SCSI joke, but I already told it 7 times.
------
Zolomon
You must add a voting function! I want to upvote/downvote!
~~~
mikle
Now there are at least two redditors in this thread.
------
marshray
My favorite is from a friend at work @Dispensa:
There... There is... There is nothing... There is nothing funny about path MTU
detection.
------
afhof
Why would anyone make an instance of abstract art?
------
athom
Don't quit() the daily job.
------
loevborg
I scanned a dozen or so of the jokes and didn't find any of it funny.
------
gnubardt
Why did the two lisp atoms lose all their money?
They got consed
------
rezahazri
Oh man,it would be great if all the jokes come with doodles
------
spydum
These are awesome! Why have I not seen this before?!
------
seri
Without loss of generality, let us assume that all mathematical jokes are
funny.
------
ntoshev
I thought this would be about social protocols. Do you have some of these?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Police sent warrant to Facebook for information on Philando Castile’s girlfriend - vezycash
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170623/06000037650/cops-sent-warrant-to-facebook-to-dig-up-dirt-woman-whose-boyfriend-they-had-just-killed.shtml
======
SwellJoe
There are so many things I can't even believe about this case.
One of them is how many people are willing to believe absurd theories in order
to justify this murder.
Castile was a law-abiding citizen, with a job, a girlfriend, people who cared
about him, and no criminal record. Why would _anyone_ believe he would reach
for a gun with an officer pointing a gun at his chest? Why is that even a
claim that can be taken seriously?
So many people say, "We can't know what happened in the car." Unless you
believe a rational, by all accounts kind-hearted, adult with no history of
violence or crime would suddenly decide to have a shootout with cops with a
little girl in the car, we _can_ know what happened in the car.
What must you think of black men to believe a story that is so absurd on the
face of it? I've heard the argument that it was the gun that made it possible
for people to believe the officer's version of events. But, would anyone
believe this story if it had been a white man in his 30s in the same
situation?
And, how horrifying must it be to wake up each day, as a black man in America,
knowing that a jury of Castile's peers believes that at any moment any black
man could snap and go on a murderous rampage? That's the only thing I can come
up with that makes any of this work; that white America still believes black
men are inherently dangerous.
I'm horrified by every police execution of an innocent person, and one
shouldn't have to be a perfect citizen to not be subject to being killed by
police. But, this one is the most stark example I can think of where there is
no excusing it, and no way to assume the officer had legitimate reason to be
afraid (aside from Tamir Rice, a 12 year old with a BB gun, who was given mere
seconds from the time of arrival of police on the scene before he was gunned
down...by an officer who also faced no consequences).
You have to believe black people are inherently dangerous to believe the
police officer's story on this. And, a jury did just that.
~~~
votepaunchy
It was a jury of the officer's peers since Castile is dead and it was the
officer on trial. And with demographics being what they are and since the
defense is permitted to evaluate and whittle down the jury pool ...
> There were just two black people on the jury of Castile’s supposed peers.
> Juror One was a young African American man who “works as a shift manager at
> Wendy’s and personal care attendant for his mom.” He expressed some lack of
> faith in the criminal justice system, reportedly expressing a belief that
> “the wealthy and powerful could get off in the legal system because they
> could hire better attorneys.” Juror 8 was an 18-year-old Ethiopian American
> who has lived in the U.S. since age 10. The Tribune notes that “the defense
> tried to strike her due to unfamiliarity with the U.S. legal system, but the
> judge denied the attempt.”
> The rest of those selected for the jury were overwhelmingly middle-aged
> white Minnesotans, many of whom expressly stated support for police or a
> belief in the infallibility of the criminal justice system.
[http://www.salon.com/2017/06/23/the-philando-castile-jury-
wa...](http://www.salon.com/2017/06/23/the-philando-castile-jury-was-stacked-
with-pro-gun-pro-cop-middle-aged-white-people_partner/)
~~~
SwellJoe
You're right, and I shouldn't have phrased it that way. Even with my awareness
of my own racism, I used language that put Castile on trial.
Anyway, I'm heartbroken and deeply disappointed in America right now. I'm most
disappointed in every white American who will defend this officer, and all the
others like him, based on a deep-seated belief that black people are always
criminals and never to be trusted.
------
zer00eyz
This is revolting.
Do the police just get to go to a judge and literaly say "blah blah blah we
want a warrant" and the judge goes "OK"? Because it sure does feel like it
sometimes.
In this case FB seems to have done right by its users (or tried to). However
is that always going to be the case? Are they always going to be willing, are
they always going to find their rebuttal in the hands of someone who is
friendly to their argument?
~~~
zkms
It helps if you throw around phrases like "based on my training and
experience" but yes, there's plenty of judges who act like literal rubber
stamps when it comes to warrants. This is why "due process" doesn't
necessarily mean too much, because a lot of the time it's just a case of the
law-enforcement agent finding the right judge to show the warrant application
to.
~~~
yorwba
These systems all really need some kind of feedback loop. E.g. when a judge
approves a warrant that is later found to be unjustified, they have to take
responsibility. Likewise for not approving a justified warrant, otherwise you
might get chilling effects. If both kinds of feedback are present, it should
help the judge stay calibrated to an acceptable interpretation of "justified".
~~~
votepaunchy
> Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to
> describe evidence that is obtained illegally.[1] The logic of the
> terminology is that if the source (the "tree") of the evidence or evidence
> itself is tainted, then anything gained (the "fruit") from it is tainted as
> well.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree)
------
mnm1
I hope it's apparent to more people now how little difference there is between
police in America and the gangs they allegedly "protect" us from. Both are
unchecked forces doing whatever they want, killing whomever they want for
whatever convoluted reason they want. The main differences are that police get
to live to potentially kill another day and their gang territory is the entire
country. But it's not just the cops. The inhumane jury members led by an
inhumane supreme court decision clearly shows that this is what the system is
created for. To allow police to get away with murder and anything else. This
Facebook warrant is a clear example that there was never any intention of
justice in this case, that police only care to serve and protect themselves,
and that no one is safe from police in America. No one.
------
jt2190
> The only upside... is Facebook refused to hand over the information
------
pokle
Why is this on Hacker News?
~~~
s_kilk
Because it highlights the sometimes disturbing intersection between technology
and the real world
~~~
s_kilk
And a counter question: why do techies pretend they have no stake in the civil
society they live in?
------
azinman2
“Yanez was acquitted and Philando Castile is still dead -- a man who did
nothing more than try to comply with an officer's orders.”
That’s a bold claim. If we watch the video, we can see the officer repeatedly
saying “stay away from the gun.” It’s not clear what’s happening, but I can at
least say I don’t know for sure what did in this tragic case.
~~~
michaelmrose
Seems to be pretty clear that the officer was paranoid and shot him without
any real reason other than in the officers imagination.
~~~
zkms
Yanez fucked up, hard. He was clearly on edge and nervous from the start, put
himself in a bad position, and the verbal commands he gave were utterly
_atrocious_.
He asked for proof of insurance and ID, and then once Mr. Castile informed him
of his weapons permit, Yanez said "don’t pull it out". However, to someone who
_isn 't_ intending on pulling out his concealed-carry weapon, "don't pull it
out" _does not_ adequately and unambiguously signal "stop moving". Mr. Castile
was obeying the command to show his ID and also had acknowledged the order not
to pull out his gun. Yanez did not even entertain the possibility that Castile
might not be reaching for a gun -- and the phraseology Yanez used is
indicative of that. Had Yanez wanted Castile to stop moving altogether, he
should have issued an unambiguous command _to that effect_ ; such as "stop
moving" or "hands on the dashboard" or "put your hands out the window now".
Yanez got himself all worked up and panicked before even making contact with
the people in the car, issued verbal commands that were obeyed to the letter,
shot up a compliant person, and then gave weird excuses about the smell of
marijuana during questioning. Yes, someone in Castile's position _could have_
stopped moving altogether when hearing "don't pull it out", but it really
shouldn't be up to people stopped by police to try to reverse-engineer an
officer's intentions and de-escalate the situation to avoid being shot by a
nervous policeman. Obeying commands should be sufficient to not get shot up.
~~~
azinman2
When you have a cop repeatedly yelling at you to stop pulling out a gun, it’s
pretty clear the situation is getting intense. After the second time, you’d
figure whatever you’re doing is wrong and at that point you’d stop...
especially with all the police shootings as a black man.
Regardless this is all us trying to put ourselves in that situation when none
of us were in it, the videos don’t conclusively show what he was doing, and
the officer wasn’t worked up / nervous from the start – he started off very
calm.
We can only speculate on the situation, without living it and fully seeing it
how can we judge one way or the other? Clearly there’s a larger problem with
so many black people in prison and killed by cops in this conntey, but to do
justice you have to look at every situation individually.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Generative Adversarial Networks Code in PyTorch and Tensorflow - diegoalejogm
https://github.com/diegoalejogm/gans
======
rasmi
Take a look at TFGAN -- it might make these implementations much easier!
[https://research.googleblog.com/2017/12/tfgan-lightweight-
li...](https://research.googleblog.com/2017/12/tfgan-lightweight-library-
for.html)
[https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/tree/master/tensorf...](https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/tree/master/tensorflow/contrib/gan)
~~~
diegoalejogm
It looks awesome, thanks!
The idea of this library is to show the inner workings of the GANs as they’re
publicized in the papers, but I will definitely make some examples with TFGANs
in the future for broader exposition. ;)
------
diegoalejogm
More models coming soon! :)
~~~
alextp
Cool! Did you try using tensorflow's eager execution?
~~~
baristaGeek
I've read a little bit about it. I think it would be a good idea since we
don't need to run the subgraphs on parallel or something like that, therefore
eliminating the need for a TF session per se.
I'll be helping Diego with some new models, it'd be awesome if you join :)
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Ask HN: Know anyone who works at Facebook? Refugee aid group needs help ASAP - jtfairbank
Hey HN! I'm in contact with a fairly major refugee aid group in Europe. Someone maliciously reported a bunch of their posts as spam, and their page was unpublished. They appealed this, didn't get a reply for 48 hours, and today it looks like the page has been deleted.<p>This is a HUGE problem, and significantly disrupts their ability to communicate with volunteers, other aid groups, and donors.<p>If you work at facebook, or know someone who does, could you please get in touch? <3<p>jtfairbank /at/ gmail /dot/ com
======
GeneralG
If they are fairly major your best bet is for their media team to contact
their local and national news and international news outlets to run a story.
If you want to help, search for journalists that have written about them
before and reach out to them as they are more likely to help you.
~~~
jtfairbank
They are big in the grassroots aid movement running important projects in
multiple countries, but they aren't the Red Cross or Doctors Without Borders
big.
Hoping to get this resolved before they have to try and publicly call out
Facebook, but you're right- that seems to be the only way to get tech orgs to
take a minute to care about situations like these.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Location-Aware Load Balancing - lmacvittie
http://devcentral.f5.com/weblogs/macvittie/archive/2010/07/07/location-aware-load-balancing.aspx
======
moe
Yet another piece from the f5 fluff factory.
Flagged for lack of content. It's simply a bunch of buzzwords chained together
for the sole purpose of collecting google juice towards their linkfarm.
Submitted, unsurprisingly, through a dedicated spam account - see his
submission history.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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SGI Unveils Octane III Personal Supercomputer - fogus
http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2009/september/octaneIII.html
======
davepeck
"Price: Ask A Sales Rep"
In a past life, I was a full-time engineer at SGI. Have they learned nothing?
~~~
ams6110
_Octane III is immediately available with Intel® Xeon® processor 5500 series
or Intel® Atom™ configurations. The base configuration price starts at
$7,995._
~~~
vdm
In this day and age, I expect and demand to be allowed to create a shopping
cart with the config of my choice to see how much it would cost, and then
abandon it at the last moment.
~~~
davepeck
Exactly.
As it turns out, SGI played the "price for base config" game back in the 90s,
too.
It _was_ a game: nobody wanted the base configuration, and two customers
purchasing non-base configs were hardly guaranteed an identical price.
------
pmorici
From the photo on the product page this looks like it's basically a desktop
blade server.
------
unwind
A new computer from SGI? Almost made me look at my calendar to see if it's
April's Fools time, heh. This looks ... I don't know, pretty heavy-weight with
up to 80 cores on the desktop. Not sure why you'd want an 80-core server
machine on your desk, though.
~~~
rbanffy
Like I said on Twitter. It's boxy, gray, and x86-based but, at least, it runs
Linux and is an SGI.
I want one.
They could have used some plastic to make it prettier...
~~~
pmorici
"It's boxy, gray, and x86-based"
So is the Apple's Mac Pro but no one thinks it needs any plastic decorations.
~~~
gcb
apples does.
[http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1588/store.apple.com/Cat...](http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1588/store.apple.com/Catalog/regional/amr/macpro/img/overview-
hero-nehalem.jpg)
we're talking desktop here, remember?
------
cpr
SGI still alive? Wow, blast from the past.
Sad to see where Cray came to die.
~~~
mbreese
They were bought by Rackable earlier in the year:
[http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2009...](http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2009/april/rackable.html)
------
sanj
There's something sad about the fact that there's a typo on the specs page:
<http://www.sgi.com/pdfs/4177.pdf>
"infrastruture"
~~~
bmelton
I dunno if it's just me, but for the anal-retentive bastard in me, I
ESPECIALLY hate seeing typos in PDF. Inexplicably, I am much more forgiving of
them on web pages, as in HTML files and the like.
There's a sense of permanence to a PDF that just makes the mistake all the
more heinous.
~~~
gcb
I hate seeing PDFs.
(and that include scribed ones too)
------
asdlfj2sd33
Trying to un-commoditize a commodity, a terrible business strategy. Apple can
do it, but apple isn't reeeally selling computers, certainly not PCs.
------
johnm
Convenient how there's no memory architecture & bandwidth numbers. :-(
~~~
wmf
It's a Nehalem Beowulf cluster; the same thing everyone else is selling.
------
mhb
Can it directly drive my 1600SW monitor with OpenLDI? Could revitalize the
whole market for those.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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Why does Heap's algorithm work? (2016) - signa11
http://ruslanledesma.com/2016/06/17/why-does-heap-work.html
======
8bitpimp
I have converted the presented algorythm to a non-recursive yielding version
for what its worth:
[https://gist.github.com/8BitPimp/fb182d04f6c31cabdceb20f714b...](https://gist.github.com/8BitPimp/fb182d04f6c31cabdceb20f714ba8395)
~~~
mrrusof
Hey, thanks for sharing. I put a reference to your gist in the post for
posterity's sake.
------
beeforpork
Reminds me of bell ringing.
------
DroidX86
Nice explanation!
~~~
mrrusof
Thank you!
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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My first experience on public transportation - quanticle
https://medium.com/@sundaytakesbart/my-first-experience-on-public-transportation-4465409d023d#.3cidezkok
======
DrScump
The attribution at the bottom says, "December 2009".
If that account _is_ 6 years old, bear in mind that things are much, much
worse now, given the huge increase in traffic and homeless.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Senior Engineers need more than just “8 years of experience” - thailor3
https://levelup.gitconnected.com/8-years-of-experience-isnt-the-definition-of-a-senior-software-engineer-f3ed904e3bc9
======
koyote
I see this on a daily basis and have seen in at multiple companies:
"Non-Senior" engineers who have to pretty much mentor "Senior" engineers; the
"Senior" being given the title due to X years of experience instead of actual
knowledge and knowhow and of course the reverse where the "Non-Senior" does
not get promoted because he does not have the required ~years of experience~.
I see it more rarely amongst higher job titles though. It's more difficult for
a senior engineer to make it to lead or principal when they do not have the
skills.
~~~
ogn3rd
I'm living this reality. Not to mention the seniors come in with a
significantly higher salary.
~~~
echlebek
The last time I had a job like this I left it. There was a sr. who
consistently turned out sloppy work, scoffed at tests, and constantly caused
production fires.
His boss loved him because he was always working hard after hours to correct
his own sloppy mistakes.
I realized that I was probably more senior than my own boss and went and found
a new job.
------
downerending
I used to wonder about this when I was younger. Now, older, I think the answer
is that "senior" people are paid more, etc., because they can be trusted to
generally tow the rope in the direction the company wants. They're usually not
disruptive and usually do act professionally.
None of that has much to do with skill. As for skill, on average they're
somewhat more skilled, but it's a smallish effect.
I _do_ happen to be more technically skilled than most around me, but other
skills matter more. I can avoid needlessly ruffling feathers. I can often
foresee that a project will crash and burn months or years in advance. I can
talk to people going through personal crises. This is all learned over long
years.
------
bifrost
Of course they do, they actually need senior knowledege. I've seen a lot of
people who were given senior titles without the accompanying knowledege, its
really polluted the talent pool.
Finding "senior" engineers who write forkbombs is more common than you'd
think.
~~~
JohnFen
Job titles in the software dev world haven't been terribly meaningful for a
very long time.
~~~
bifrost
Fair enough, but its still sad.
~~~
LordFast
Based on what I've seen across multiple companies, only the biggest and most
experienced ones understood how to do leveling correctly. Everyone else was
basically flying by the seat of their pants.
I think it's much more productive to label software engineers as being in
stage 1 through stage 4 for most companies, and for 1000+ add stage 5 and for
10000+ add stage 6.
~~~
JohnFen
There was also a stretch of time following the dotcom bust when companies were
handing out inflated titles rather than actual promotions or pay increases. I
could be misremembering, but my memory is that was when titles became
meaningless.
~~~
LordFast
Heh, yeah. People problems tend to get solved in weird ways more often than
not.
------
bradknowles
Hell, what I’ve seen is that you get called “senior” if you have more than
three years of experience. Talk about mind boggling.
Those kinds of companies tend to be incapable of comprehending how to handle
interviewing someone with 30 years of experience in the field.
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
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The Second Amendment and the Insurrection Myth - cpeterso
http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2007/01/brin-classics-jefferson-rifle.html
======
ChuckMcM
I really like this essay, but it shows its age. Some remarkably 'under armed'
rag tag militias have done a lot of damage to professional soldiers in Irag
and Afghanistan.
I don't support the insurrection hypothesis but recognize that in an encounter
where small numbers of individuals can (and do) cause more damage than they
'cost' the economics are not as clear as they were in the early 70's when this
was first proposed.
~~~
GauntletWizard
I think it's doubly true in the age we've just entered - The age of 3d-printed
firearms. Truth is, you can't 3d print a full firearm yet, but I'm certain
that the NRA will have gigantic stockpiles of all the parts you currently can
buy, and the one that you can't can now be printed.
I'm not a fan of the idea of armed insurrection - I believe that it's
distasteful at best, and more than likely a sign of a gigantic malignancy left
unchecked. However, I can't help but point out that at least once in the past
it was responsible for changes we hold dear.
~~~
csense
> I'm not a fan of the idea of armed insurrection - I believe that it's
> distasteful at best, and more than likely a sign of a gigantic malignancy
> left unchecked. However, I can't help but point out that at least once in
> the past it was responsible for changes we hold dear.
Revolution is supposed to be a last resort. But -- as the article points out
-- the mere fact that it's a possibility serves as a balance against an
oppressive regime.
------
mooism2
Service Unavailable.
Google cache link ---
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ODAU_WF...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ODAU_WF0nowJ:davidbrin.blogspot.com/2007/01/brin-
classics-jefferson-rifle.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk)
------
signalsignal
Are there any start ups currently looking into disrupting the NRA?
| {
"pile_set_name": "HackerNews"
} |
Subsets and Splits