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America’s First Direct Mail Campaign - 082349872349872 https://postalmuseum.si.edu/node/1912 ====== 082349872349872 "In 1835, the American Anti-Slavery Society (AAS) took their campaign to a new level with what could be called the first use of a direct mail campaign." Direct mail being in its infancy, they did not think to use a targeted list to a sympathetic audience, and were generally considered to have been early spammers. "The administration’s hostility toward the AAS campaign (including federal postal officials’ refusal to chastise southern postmasters for their not delivering legal mail) and a series of state laws created to criminalize sending such “inflammatory” and “seditious” materials into southern states brought an end to the Society’s mail campaign." ------ empath75 It’s amazing how often “states‘ rights” comes up historically with regard to slavery and black civil rights, but almost never in any other context. It’s almost like it was just a convenient legal tool to protect white supremacy, and once it failed they’d break the law, up to and including murder and treason to protect it. And after the war they used it again to bring it back and protect white supremacy from then until today. People who argue for morally contemptible positions often couch them in process arguments, which they will then argue against when turned against them — such as when northern states, for example, didn’t want to return fugitive slaves. Don’t let people change the subject when they want to argue for the continuation of a grotesque and immoral practice because of some abstract legal principle. If the principle of “states‘ rights“ permits slavery and segregation and apartheid, then that’s a condemnation of the concept of states’ rights. Either it needs to be formulated in such a way that it doesn’t permit atrocities to continue, or it needs to be jettisoned. ------ Nextgrid > That night a group called the “Lynch Men” broke into the post office and > stole those mail bags. The next night, the group led a “celebration” of > almost 2,000 spectators in cheering the burning that mail It would be amazing if the same could be done with today's junk mail.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Bitstamp Incident Report 2-20-15 - edward http://www.scribd.com/doc/270137312/Bitstamp-Incident-Report-2-20-15 ====== edward "The sender was offering Mr. Kodric the opportunity to join Upsilon Pi Epsilon (UPE), the International Honour Society for the Computing and Information Disciplines. The UPE site is hosted within the acm.org domain. On 11 December, as part of this offer, the attacker sent a number of attachments. One of these, UPE_application_form.doc, contained obfuscated malicious VBA script. When opened, this script ran automatically and pulled down a malicious file from IP address 185.31.209.145, thereby compromising the machine." ~~~ billyhoffman It's 2015 and Visual Basic for Application scripts embedded in Word Docs is still a viable channel for attacking people. That makes me pretty sad. Who needs bare-metal/firmware rootkits or virtualization escape exploits when a DOC file + some VBS let's you rob some crypto currency? ~~~ TodPunk Social engineering will ALWAYS be the most effective means of compromising a system. If you can get the user to run a thing, you have got them to run anything you want forever. This is not a problem with VBA, VBA is merely providing functionality (and useful functionality in many respects). There is no way to prevent this in VBA or any other technology. The only vector of mitigation is educating the user. ~~~ makmanalp Social engineering will be always effective, but that's not the point. This /is/ a problem with VBA - as a person viewing a document, it doesn't seem like you're running anything, but really you're running arbitrary unsigned code that has full r/w access to everything on your system. To make it worse, this has been a major attack vector for over a decade yet it's still completely unsandboxed. ~~~ gnaritas That's not really true, it doesn't run by default, the user is prompted and warned about possible malicious scripts AND they run them anyway. All you have to do is put instructions/picture in the doc telling the user to click that button to see the content, and they usually will. Users are simply ignorant of the dangers, that's the problem and it's always been the problem and that's unlikely to change. ~~~ makmanalp I know it doesn't run by default - a warning about malicious scripts is a cop out and everyone knows it. Yes, if we trained everyone to be programmers, then maybe no one would click it. However, the point is, how do I know what will happen when I click this button? Will it run a helpful macro to format my data or will it delete all my files? Why is a macro language allowed to do that? Why do those two things have the same security level assigned to them? You should run executables only from trusted sources - that's what we're told, right? Now - do you trust an email appearing to genuinely be from a very prestigious honor society from the world's largest CS authority? Why not? Why was the person not able to cryptographically verify that, yes, that is indeed where this file came from? What is that - you say that since they didn't know the sender personally, they shouldn't have trusted the file anyway? A different example: What if, say, someone used windowsupdate or apt-get as an attack vector? I bet you're trusting those strangers already, as we speak, and you have pretty much no say in the matter. "Oh, we'll put in a warning dialog" is the most crappy duct-tape there-I- fixed-it style solution to this extremely nuanced problem, and blaming the user does nothing to secure real world systems. ~~~ gnaritas > You should run executables only from trusted sources - that's what we're > told, right? No, that's what computer savvy people know, normal users don't think twice about running an executable from any source, that's the whole point. Nothing you suggested will stop what people simply do continually, open anything from anyone without caring who the sender is. Sandboxes don't just protect things, they forbid necessary and useful things so you can't simply sandbox everything because users will simply refuse to use your crippled software and opt for the less secure but more functional version. Users don't care about security, that's the problem; it's a social problem, not a technical one. ------ jessaustin _Moreover, we need to be very careful not to educate other criminal hackers about how we "safeguard" our assets and information. Accordingly, no part of this report may be made public or given to a third party without the prior express written permission of Bitstamp Ltd._ If this is public now, presumably they've finally airgapped wallet.dat? It sounds like Kodric is getting the blame for this, with his boneheaded doc opening, but with the architecture they had this might have been just a matter of time. After all the CTO had previously opened another doc, but the embedded VBA didn't run for unspecified reasons. ------ chinathrow Are there some stats on how effective spear phising is these days? Need to train my co-founder live, but some facts would sure help. ~~~ at-fates-hands Here you go: [http://www.symantec.com/content/en/us/enterprise/other_resou...](http://www.symantec.com/content/en/us/enterprise/other_resources/b-istr_main_report_v19_21291018.en- us.pdf) _While the total number of emails used per campaign has decreased and the number of those targeted has also decreased, the number of spear-phishing campaigns themselves saw a dramatic 91 percent rise in 2013._ and [http://blog.wombatsecurity.com/spear-phishing-everything- eve...](http://blog.wombatsecurity.com/spear-phishing-everything-ever-needed- know/) 91% of cyber attacks begin with a spear phishing email. 94% of targeted spear phishing emails have attachments Here is the referenced report in the above article: Spear-Phishing Email: Most Favored APT Attack Bait [http://www.trendmicro.com/cloud-content/us/pdfs/security- int...](http://www.trendmicro.com/cloud-content/us/pdfs/security- intelligence/white-papers/wp-spear-phishing-email-most-favored-apt-attack- bait.pdf) ------ adricnet Ah, the document at that link is a) labelled confidential and b) scanned and OCR'd with some problems visible on the first page. If this is officially public I would like to read it, please provide a legible copy. If this a leaked document than I can't use it and don't particularly want to read it. Motive: I write this sort of thing from time to time and I would not enjoy seeing it leaked and discussed. ~~~ driverdan > If this a leaked document than I can't use it and don't particularly want to > read it. Why? ~~~ placeybordeaux Probably due to his morals or ethics. ------ tedunangst "This content was removed at the request of Bitstamp Ltd." :( ~~~ ikeboy I downloaded it before. See [https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzdZTHqha9tYjVEaklxODc5emc...](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzdZTHqha9tYjVEaklxODc5emc/view) ------ escapologybb That was fascinating, does anyone know where I can read more reports like this? ~~~ joshstrange I doubt there is a central repository of things like this as most (this one included) are eyes-only and normally, in an effort to present the raw facts and point out the failures, is not something that makes the company it's about look good (Lax security or bad practices, I'm not saying that was the case here one way or the other just that normally that's what they are going to cover). I think the most telling line (in regards to your comment) is: > ...we need to be very careful not to educate other criminal hackers about > how we safeguard our assets and information. Accordingly, no part of this > report may be made public or given to a third party without the prior > express written permission of Bitstamp Ltd Well I was going to quote it but it's been taken down already, wish I still had it open in a tab. The line was something to effect of "This document should not ever be made public as it outlines our weaknesses and we don't want to give future attackers any more tools to attack us" Edit: I've updated the above with the quote, I found it after all Edit 2: All of that said I too would love to read more in-depth post-mortems on hacks/breaches/thefts. I knew phising like this was possible but I would have fallen prey to some of that probably. Now I don't use a windows computer so I might have been marginally safer but there is nothing to say that the attacker didn't have linux/osx tricks up his/her sleeve. The graphic that shows the different avenues of attack and the one that finally succeeded was a really cool way to visualize the attack as well. ------ microcolonel This is so unbelievably pathetic. How is anyone supposed to trust nincompoops who open word documents from unsolicited emails on Windows while connected to a sensitive VPN? Furthermore: with your money. ~~~ cjbprime System administrators who do so, no less. ~~~ jessaustin Pretty much everyone opened the docs, including the CTO. If you're more comfortable on Windows, that's fine, use Windows, but _remember_ that you're using Windows. ~~~ lcswi I wouldn't blame windows, surely libreoffice could.be exploited similarly? ~~~ jessaustin Perhaps? I don't use either package. If someone sends me a .doc and I _really_ want to read it then I upload to GDrive. If I'm sending something that can't be text then it's a pdf. I'm not saying I can't be phished, but I certainly won't be running any VBA without knowing it. ~~~ aw3c2 [http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability- list/vendor_id-53/pr...](http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability- list/vendor_id-53/product_id-497/Adobe-Acrobat-Reader.html) ~~~ jessaustin I haven't used acrobat in years. Is it even available on linux or chromeos? ------ westoque I think the chance for remote execution would be far less if they used unix based systems. Also when dealing with sensitive stuff like this, I expect them to have better monitoring of their services, like notifications on access, etc. ~~~ some1else > I think the chance for remote execution would be far less if they used unix > based systems. OSX is a *nix based system and has had far worse security than Windows for ages (lagging with basic things like address space randomization). Just because Unix is not considered a primary attack surface area for viruses and alike, it does not make it inherently more secure. That kind of attitude is indeed even more dangerous than having a well secured Windows computer. (Disclaimer, Mac user myself) ~~~ xorcist Security isn't necessarily better or worse, but different. Remember that Windows (used to?) run code on _every_ attached USB Mass Storage. The bundled web browser executed native code embeded on web pages (but don't worry as it's all signed, right?) and great efforts were made to build enterprise software on top of it. That has nothing to do with unix-ness or lack thereof. It's also nothing you can fix by layering more technology over it. Both systems have unpatched root exploits if you have access to the display subsystem. Both were initially developed for trusted local environments, then adapted for public network use some ten or fifteen years later and whatever security issues that brought was patched as they were found. I'm just not sure how to argue more or less security in that environment. Users still get owned by running Flash (so no ASLR for you) and Outlook. ------ benmmurphy so if you are an insider and you wanted to steal a hot wallet a good way to do it is to stage a fishing attack against yourself. (i think Mr Kodric is a victim here) ------ jessedhillon Can we stop using and supporting scribd yet? They don't let you get past page 3 on mobile devices without installing their app. Most phones have PDF viewing capabilities, what is the need to host PDFs on scribd? ~~~ geographomics Agreed, it's a most frustrating website to use on mobile and tablet. If it helps, here are mirrors of the content: [pdf] [https://bitstampincidentreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/2...](https://bitstampincidentreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/270137312-bitstamp- incident-report-2-20-15.pdf) [docx] [https://bitstampincidentreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/2...](https://bitstampincidentreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/270137312-bitstamp- incident-report-2-20-15.docx) ~~~ chinathrow Did anyone scan the docx for unknown/known vulns? :) ~~~ jessaustin It would be pretty hilarious to read an incident report six months from now that cited that link as a successful phish.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Relentlessly focus on your customers: test usability. - jgershen http://www.gazehawk.com/blog/relentlessly-focus-on-your-customers-test-usability/ ====== asolove I would like to preempt the inevitable "but Apple doesn't do user testing" argument by saying something. There are two known ways to make good products. One is to hire a large team of excellent designers and design managers, relentlessly design multiple alternatives for every single option, and have many layers of design review all the way to the executive level. Continuously kill off all ideas that are not perfect, and all features that you don't have time to do perfectly. Have your designers and executives use the products realistically for long periods of time before release to identify problem areas. If you are willing to do this, feel free to not do usability testing. On the other hand, if you have to get to market quickly, if some of your features are sometimes half thought-through, if your design department is so backlogged you're lucky to get even one thoughtful comp for the current engineering work, you had damn well better do usability testing. These are the two choices. You should not expect to design everything once, build it once, not do user testing, and then blame your crappy product on the meme that "Apple doesn't do user testing." ~~~ nchlswu I definitely agree with what you're saying. However, I'd really like to know the origins of the "Apple doesn't do User Testing" Has that ever been substantiated? I've heard it once or twice in various incarnations, such as "Apple doesn't do Market Research" or something of the like. I really don't think it's reasonable to say that. Apple may not do end user testing,but I'm sure they do usability testing. It may be a trivial distinction to some, but I think it's sort of important. ~~~ bugsy My understanding is "they don't do usability testing" is in the context of "usability testing" being defined as hiring some usability consultants who have never designed usable software to come in and video tape random people off the street trying to accomplish canned tasks using the software. They then write the results in a report with some generic or impractical suggestions which would not actually improve usability because they are neither designers nor target users. Apple doesn't do that sort of "usability testing". However, Apple does test their products for usability.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Pirate Bay Will Stop Serving Torrents - llambda http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-will-stop-serving-torrents-120112/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter ====== gojomo Hey! I invented the magnet link, almost 10 years ago. Great to see it still evolving and spreading, based simply on its loosey- goosey merits. ~~~ nestlequ1k It's weird, I've been seeing it for years but I never understood what it is. I still don't really. But when I click on the magnets things seem to download immediately. So looks like you built something pretty amazing. Congrats! ~~~ zcid It's basically a URI that contains the torrent hash enabling a client to find peers through a decentralized network such as DHT instead of requiring a tracker. I believe you can append trackers and other info to the URI as well, but I'm not sure about that. ~~~ pyre Note: DHT = Distributed Hash Table ------ chimeracoder > Perhaps even better, without the torrent files everyone can soon host a full > copy of The Pirate Bay on a USB thumb drive, which may come in handy in the > future. I've been saying this for _years_ : governments playing an arms race with hackers is like playing Whack-a-mole or cutting of heads of hydras. Every time you block one means of communication (starting in this case with Napster), a new, more decentralized, harder-to-combat protocol is going to emerge. Even if you're the MPAA and don't like copyright violations, you have to face that fact. That doesn't mean you (necessarily) have to throw in the towel and abandon the idea of copyright infringement altogether, but it does mean you need to start being creative instead of engaging in a direct legal- technological battle - an arms race. I wonder how long it will take before the big players realize this and try to figure out a way to use this new playing field (the Internet) to their advantage, instead of trying to squelch any technological development so that they can cling to old models of payment and distribution. It was nice while it happened, but let's face it - we're past the point of no return. Even if they everyone hosted their own copies of TPB on their thumb drives and then they found some way to shut that down, I'm certain there'd be some hacker smart enough (like gojomo above) to come up with something that just makes things even less centralized, more difficult to track, and more difficult to shut down. ~~~ Helianthus The big players are defeated by the new playing field. There is no "their advantage," there's just a major change in how we produce content. It's away from exploitation of artists and the control of artistic message. ~~~ beedogs The production, the marketing the, distribution... EVERYTHING has changed for the music industry in about 15 years. They have no future unless the Internet is tightly controlled (which it cannot be.) ~~~ cookiecaper The RIAA and other major music industry players may have no future, but there is definitely a profitable future for a "music industry" populated by entities that are willing to adjust to the modification in distribution channels and consumption habits. As it stands, the old-fashioned fogies are simply in denial and doing their best to prevent the marketplace from changing because they don't know how to use the new technology and they don't know how to succeed in the new marketplace. That doesn't mean that there's no future for the industry as a whole, it's simply the way entrenched players eventually die. ~~~ GHFigs _they don't know how to succeed in the new marketplace_ Who does, in your opinion? ~~~ chrisdroukas I'm with you on this one. It's less that the RIAA and major labels 'don't know how to use the new technology and...succeed in the new marketplace' so much as we're currently (still) in an in-between stage of market control. Take for example Radiohead or Louis CK. Their previous successes allowed them to produce, release and distribute independently of big entertainment — but I don't think we're at the point where a small independent artist can effectively take their own music to market in a manner comparable to using a label. I don't have data to back this opinion, but high profile successes in independent distribution have been biased toward artists who were well-known and previously successful. ~~~ dfxm12 I don't think it is fair to compare Radiohead or Louis CK to that of a lesser known artist in this regard, because the bias is all in the media coverage. Bands have been self releasing (outside of "big entertainment") since well before digital distribution, because signing to a label isn't always feasible (financially or creatively). Digital distribution makes just makes this even easier. You only know about Louis CK & Radiohead because that is that the media covering. Digital distribution & artists self releasing material is happening and has been for a while, but no one knows because unless they are already into these lesser known bands & record labels. You have to think of it like this: "Lesser known artists can be more successful by releasing their own material digitally than they would by signing with a label." Or "This independent record label can lower their overhead and make things easier for their bands by embracing digital distribution." ------ Corrado This site ([http://www.ghacks.net/2010/06/05/what-is-a-magnet-link- and-h...](http://www.ghacks.net/2010/06/05/what-is-a-magnet-link-and-how-does- it-differ-from-torrents/)) explains what Magnet links are and how trackers have traditionally worked in the past. ~~~ ajtaylor The original article had a link to this ([http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrents- future-dht-pex-and-magne...](http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrents-future-dht- pex-and-magnet-links-explained-091120/)) which I found a bit more helpful explaining the concepts. ------ stfu It is still fascinating how resilient not only Piratebay but also others such as Demonoid have become. A few years ago it looked like they were close to getting shut down. It is impressive how they are now able to withstand all the "forces" and Governments had to shift their focus towards the ISPs. ------ ars One drawback to magnet links is that you can not in advance see what files are there. So if you only want to download some of them, you first have to wait for the magnet to download the torrent, then go back to it and pick the files you want. A magnet link also makes it hard to check if the link you are looking at is a duplicate of what you have already. With a torrent you can check the file size and compare to others. ~~~ ben0x539 There isn't really a reason the piratebay web interface couldn't display that info for you anyway. ~~~ sp332 If users only upload the magnet file, the TPB wouldn't even know how big the file is, unless their servers queried the DHT for the .torrent file and extracted the data. ~~~ tdoggette Right, that's what they'd have to do. ------ atlbeer Can someone fill me in on the first step a client (BT) would take to find its first peers? That part is a bit magic to me right now. What would be the first IP it would query and how would it know? ~~~ bdonlan There are three main methods (in order of preference): 1\. Use a cached list from a previous run. This is ideal in terms of load balancing, and also helps with bootstrap time if your IP hasn't changed, so all major torrent clients have such a cache. 2\. Ask peers you're connected to via a traditional tracker and .torrent file. This is the next best thing, but can only be used if the first torrent you download is via a traditional tracker. 3\. Use some bootstrap peers hardcoded into the torrent client. Has a single point of failure, but it works. Each torrent client can use a different set of bootstrap peers, note - they're nothing special, just a DHT peer that has the bandwidth and CPU power to deal with bootstrap requests (which isn't a very high hurdle - you only get hit once, on the initial install, or if the client's been shut down for so long it no longer has any valid peers). Or the user might even supply their own, if need be. ~~~ kissickas Thanks for the information, this part was always a mystery to me as well. To clarify, if someone has never downloaded a torrent before and starts with a rarely downloaded file, would the use of only magnet links mean they will probably not be able to find another peer? It sounds like unless you already have torrents downloaded, your list of possible peers to check for the file is very short. ~~~ ianlevesque If your client connects to just one peer you essentially gain access to the entire bittorrent DHT network. As a dramatic simplification, your request for the rare torrent would propagate until it found the peers seeding or downloading it. ~~~ drewblaisdell But what if the users sharing the file are also connecting for the first time? It seems like if my friend wants to seed a file and I want to download it, it only works if we knows peers (who know peers who know peers who...) know peers of me. Is this correct? ~~~ gnoupi In theory (assuming that there are links to everyone, and no way to have separate networks) (it's of course a theory only, but seems very likely that there are "massive users", who have files of "every kind", connecting the different groups), as long as you both connect to one who is connected, it will work. Although this is quite the extreme case, and not really the purpose for Bittorrent to begin with, I guess. The main interest is load balancing of popular downloads, not finding the one person with the one file for you. ~~~ cookiecaper I've actually found torrents to be a great way to share large files with a friend. There's no invasive upload dialog or locking, no practical filesize limitations other than the free space on my friend's computer, you don't have to upload to a public-facing server before your associate can start downloading, port forwarding is handled transparently by UPnP, client software is user-friendly, easily available, and often already running anyway, and it's easy to scale if another friend wants a copy at some point in the future. Of course, TPB switching to magnets doesn't really affect this. Torrent files are still used to provide information on the download, they're just distributed from within the P2P network instead of TPB itself. If you have a torrent file to share with an individual or small group instead of the whole world, there's no reason to stop using torrent files directly. ------ tomkin For a brief moment, the title sounded like TPB was going to blackout for "stop SOPA day". Wouldn't that be funny. ~~~ bdonlan If the TPB were to actively oppose SOPA, it would just give the SOPA proponents more to work with - "Look, TPB is against it, so it must be a good thing!". ~~~ nestlequ1k Brilliant point. Pirate Bay's best approach is to laugh at SOPA and make clear it will do nothing to stop them. ~~~ jQueryIsAwesome Actually, one day the placed a video instead of their logo created by multiple users with messages against SOPA, it was this one: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w6GtwOvnWM> ------ icebraining So, what if you don't run the client on the same machine you're browsing TPB with, like people who have torrent enabled routers or VPS/seedboxes? I suppose you can copy-paste the link to your client, but clients which had automatic pick-up of .torrent files (like rtorrent) were nice because you could just drop them on a remote directory and have them be downloaded. I wonder if I could write a small application just to download the torrent file from the magnet link/DHT to copy it to the remote server afterwards. ~~~ botker See the shell script in the top comment here: <http://libtorrent.rakshasa.no/ticket/2100> I tested it, and it works as advertised. For firefox integration, in about:config create a new boolean as: network.protocol-handler.expose.magnet := false For chromium integration, you need to use Xdg-open. ------ iamandrus They announced that they were planning on doing this right when magnet links came out. I haven't used .torrent files since I discovered magnet links and I actually find they more convenient than downloading a torrent file. ------ Zirro I've been using mostly magnet links for the past year and haven't experienced any issues. If people understand that they work just like a normal link/torrent file, this won't make the process any more complicated. Hopefully this is another win in the long run, as links are harder to stop than files. ~~~ forgotusername Only slightly as I understand it, since from a legal perspective the _intent_ of someone providing providing links instead of files doesn't change, and that's what counts. From a technical perspective, and as someone who doesn't understand how magnet works under the hood, I'm slightly concerned that DHTs might be easier to attack in an underhanded manner than an HTTP server would have been. ~~~ Zirro "Only slightly as I understand it, since from a legal perspective the intent of someone providing providing links instead of files doesn't change, and that's what counts." Indeed, but a link can be posted anywhere a user can post text. Here, have Pioneer One: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3a4be1d48c31dfa62bf52958f3fdca3d5ce91cf1&dn=Pioneer%20One%20SEASON1.720p%20x264-VODO I can see this leading to a block on many sites on all links starting with the "magnet"-protocol, if it's not in place already. It also highlights the issue with SOPA further. Had that series not been allowed to be shared, Hacker News would be in big trouble for hosting the link. ~~~ Joakal That would be a restriction of freedom of speech and Internet Freedom for blacklisting magnet urls. Linux Distro excuse comes to mind. A cynical person might say that the intent would also further kill free content creators, restricting the supply of content; consumers then see only paid content. ~~~ Zirro Sadly, that hasn't prevented censorship of "neutral" keywords before. See: <https://torrentfreak.com/googles-anti-piracy-filter-110712> ~~~ Joakal Wow, I didn't see this before. I can understand filtering certain terms for court requests, but voluntarily? It looks like Google is attacking distribution methods of content with such broad filtering. Probably to make compromises with the anti-Internet activists. Now judges can interpret it to mean that Google can happily censor any results for certain words as it has been done in other anti-Internet regimes. What scumbags all round. ~~~ lambda Note that this isn't filtering the terms for search, just filtering them for auto-complete. As in, if I type "lord of the rings" it won't suggest "lord of the rings torrent" even if that is the most common or one of the most common searches beginning with "lord of the rings." If you actually type "lord of the rings torrent" and hit return, Google will still do that search and return relevant results. They are doing this because for many pieces of popular media, the torrent search was fairly high in the list of most popular searches, and they don't want to be seen as suggesting that you download the torrent. Likewise, they won't autocomplete obscene or porn related terms, but will still do searches for them. There is a difference between banning a term entirely from their search engine, and deciding that it's not something that you want to suggest to people who haven't requested it, to avoid suggesting illegal acts, avoid legal trouble, avoid offending people, or the like. ~~~ Joakal My concern was mostly due to this statement: "This is something we looked at and thought we could make some narrow and relatively easy changes to our Autocomplete algorithm that could make a positive difference, Cano added." They believe in filtering broad innocent terms in them as a solution to copyright infringement rather than saying "No no, we can't filter broad terms, especially innocent uses of it. Not only does the language evolve, but the infringers can adopt innocent names like congress:<link to song>. We need to intelligently handle copyright infringement without hurting access to legitimate websites." It looks like part of doing SEO now is to be aware of avoiding broad innocent terms. I hope the unaware people don't get caught in Google's broad autocomplete filter. ------ GBiT Talking about magnet links I remembered KAD with ed2k and eMule. Its almost same. Bittorrent with magnet links just have different chunk size possibility to make faster download with smaller piece size. ~~~ Hemospectrum According to Wikipedia, magnet links are in fact based on ed2k and Freenet URIs. ------ jmtame From what I understand, DHT has a big trade-off vs BitTorrent: DHTs are crawlable[1] and copyright holders can more easily track who holds copies of what yet it's easier to duplicate search engines like TPB within hours for the same reason. So the effect seems to be that the RIAA, MPAA, etc. will likely not be able to take down trackers; they'll have to revert back to suing their "customers" (or lobbying to pass absurd legislation for that matter). [1] [http://z.cs.utexas.edu/users/osa/unvanish/papers/vanish- brok...](http://z.cs.utexas.edu/users/osa/unvanish/papers/vanish-broken.pdf) ------ Fester It seems that TBP just taken another step to push judge and jury's confusion during next trials even further. "Y'know, we're trying to shut down pirates' secret base that... doesn't serve a single file!" ------ sjmulder What I’m wondering is whether it’s not yet possible to have a distributed, decentralised torrent database. You could already put up a copy of the database as a torrent and distribute the magnet link, but you’d need some method for efficiently keeping it up to date. ~~~ jxcole DHTs/Torrents are great for static data (like a movie) but bad for dynamic data, like a website with a list of movies, their ratings, user comments, etc. There are, however, other systems that are designed to combat this, like freenet. They tend to be overwhelmingly slow, because you need to pass lots of data around to make it consistent. Then again, magnet links, titles, and a little html are probably not a lot of information, so it probably could be done. I just haven't heard of any attempts yet. It's tempting to go and write one. Could you make a decentralized, P2P version of reddit with distributed trust? I think it's possible but hasn't been tried. ~~~ icebraining I think the easiest way is to not make it really "dynamic" but an append-only structure of static content. For example a Reddit thread might be representable as a static list of actions (add reply, upvote, downvote, etc), which the client would process to get the current state. That way, you could immediately download an earlier version of a resource and then get the updates as they spread through the network. ~~~ ComputerGuru a la bitcoin. They have a big problem in their design where currently it works exactly as you described, and at "some unknown point in the future" when the database of all transactions EVER in the history of bitcoin gets too big for each person to have to have a copy of in order to add another transaction, they'll "figure out a way" to make it unnecessary. ~~~ Natsu Can't they somehow publish the current state of things, let anyone who wants to verify it from the public record building a web of trust, then go from there forward? Or is there some subtle flaw in that idea? ------ pornel I hope that before .torrent files are gone, they (or some scraper) will publish them all as a torrent. Somebody did that last time PB was in trouble, e.g. one of the pieces: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:4232363a47fe29acdf2c77874365a5e3368854b4& That's a pretty interesting dataset to mine. ~~~ chimeracoder Why? What would the point of the .torrent files be if the magnet links are still there? ------ ward > _This is topical, since this week courts in both Finland and the Netherlands > ordered local Internet providers to block the torrent site._ Is there a list of countries where this has been ordered by courts? I know it's already the case in my country (Belgium) as well[1]. [1]: [http://torrentfreak.com/belgium-starts-blocking-the- pirate-b...](http://torrentfreak.com/belgium-starts-blocking-the-pirate- bay-111020/) ------ nextparadigms Since they are doing this big change, is there a way to make it more secure on the user side, too? Like encrypt the traffic and make it impossible for RIAA to track IP's? Also since they say that it's like every user would have the TPB site on their computer, does it mean blocking the site would be completely useless? And since they are just links, and links are pretty much speech, I figure it would be impossible to turn it into law as well, to specifically target magnet based sites like TPB. ~~~ teraflop The entire design of Bittorrent is predicated on clients advertising to each other which torrents they're seeding and which pieces are available. You can encrypt your traffic to get it past your ISP's deep packet inspection, but the peer at the other end has to be able to decrypt it. And you have no way of knowing what nefarious organization controls that peer. ------ afhof Don't the torrent files contain all the hashes for each piece? Doesn't that mean if a single piece is bad, the entire torrent can't be verified? Torrent files contain a lot of useful data that isn't found in a magnet URI. Is this just being ignored? ~~~ skymt The hash in a magnet URI is of the info dictionary in the .torrent file. It's used to query the BitTorrent DHT for peers running the same torrent. Once another peer is found, your client will download the full metadata file from it, and from there it works just like any other BitTorrent download. <http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html> <http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0009.html> ------ sp0rus This is definitely a step in the right direction. Not saying this is a good step to increase piracy, but there really is no need for trackers when we have magnets, and this will lead to a healthier bittorent community. ------ joejohnson How does this change the process for uploading a new torrent to TPB? ~~~ Refringe For the time being, nothing. However, once TPB goes full magnet you'll just submit a link instead of a file. It should make the process easier. ------ instakill Can anyone say what the gist of this article is? Blocked from torrent sites at work. ~~~ keypusher Piratebay will now serve magnet links by default instead of .torrent files. For the average user, not much will change. For some particular use cases, there may have to be adjustments. ------ jdefarge Pirate Bay is the BEST torrent site ever created. It's a pity they are switching to Magnet. :( It would be so cool if they provided both (Magnet and Torrent)...	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Is Buying Crypto Assets “Investing” - ca98am79 https://avc.com/2018/05/is-buying-crypto-assets-investing/ ====== drcode Any discussion of whether "X is Y" like this is kind of pointless. More than that, it just devolves into sub-arguments. In this case, it will devolve into arguing whether an "investment" requires purchasing things with "intrinsic value", and furthermore whether the term "intrinsic value" has any sort of objective meaning at all, anyway. At the end of the day, if people prefer to call me a "gambler" or "speculator" or "investor" for owning Bitcoin, any of those terms are fine. ~~~ asfasgasg Most of the time, I agree with you. Especially with a lot of the pointless pedantry that people argue about on here. However, the question of whether X should be termed an investment or speculation can be quite important in people's lives. Marketing in general is really important, especially marketing around which many people base serious financial decisions. If the label you put on the box leads people to expect one thing, and what's in the box is something else, that's problematic. This is part of why the SEC cares so much about who various securities are _marketed_ to. And since, so far, the SEC has not stopped in to stop BTC et al from being marketed to The Average Jane, it's important to unofficially call out unrealistic claims and misleading terminology. ~~~ Jommi I initially agreed with the parent comment, but you drive a good bargain as well with yours. Still, I think the actual problem is not that it needs to be defined, but that we are trying to define it in the scope of singular current definition, while we actually need to implement a new definition, possibly with the help of mixing current definitions. ~~~ asfasgasg The whole reason I made my comment was going through a back and forth with myself about whether there was a case to be made here. I'm still not positive, so I hope I'm not driving that bargain harder than it deserves to be driven. I do 100% agree that the default stance on debating definitions should be that one ought not, and one ought instead be more specific. Maybe the real thing to take care of is that most investors are really innocent and we have to be very careful about what kinds of expectations we give them (if we care about ethics, at any rate). ------ vertexFarm I always hear people saying that blockchain is being used for all kinds of interesting things that gives them intrinsic value, but that's not why bitcoin's price has gotten so high (and recently dropped so dramatically, but still very high). Bitcoin and most other cryptocurrency is almost exclusively used for speculation. People generally buy bitcoin for one reason and one reason only: to get rich from selling it later. A currency driven in this great a percentage by speculation is a dangerous bubble. Until it lives up to the hype and this blockchain ecosystem actually exists in a density large enough to realistically support the currency's valuation, I would listen to Warren Buffet's advice. There's a lot of adherents who are reaching fanatical levels of devotion to blockchain, and those types will explain away any unbeliever's lack of faith. The fact remains--cryptocurrency is almost entirely driven by speculation. A sustainable currency doesn't do that. A Ponzi scheme does that. A lot of the blockchain applications seem really kind of flimsy and hollow, as if they are really there to prop up a crypto fortune in the hopes that some kind of ecosystem develops and prevents the inevitable crash. Those probably aren't going to work. Once again, it points to fact that the primary purpose of the currency is currently just a get rich quick scheme. ~~~ 21 Speculation is a critical part of the process. It's called "signaling". If price of Aluminium goes up a lot, people will be "signaled" to build more Aluminium mines, Aluminium smelters and so on. All of these people are driven by profit. Yet their profit-seeking provides a service, at least until Aluminium will not be needed anymore. The same for bitcoin. The ever-increasing price signals all kind of people to do all kind of things. This is critical for adoption. ~~~ vertexFarm Thing is, that aluminum industry in your example existed before the investment and independent from the investment. People need aluminum and are going to buy it. If you have a signal to purchase more currency, and that currency's value only goes up if more people show up to buy it at a higher price, and those people can only get a payout if another tier of people show up and pay a higher price... See the shape of that structure? Vaguely... triangular? Legitimate investment takes advantages of inefficiencies in pricing. It's not possible to always sell a commodity at the absolute ideal and correct price at the correct time, especially for an industry just getting its start. So people with a lot of assets can take some commodity, hold it for a period of time, then sell it wisely to take advantage of an existing industry. Or nurture it and reap the rewards when it is successful. See how cryptocurrency is potentially different? Most of the price of crypto is not supported by any industry. It's people buying more in hopes of getting rich quick. It's absolutely a bubble in its current incarnation, although hopefully it develops a more diverse underpinning as time goes on. If it develops that foundation then it will be like investing in a fledgeling industry, nurturing it until it can become self-sustaining and profitable. If those applications don't come through, it's just another scheme. ~~~ Jommi You seem to be slowly turning to the side of it being an investment in the end. You start out with lambasting bitcoin and crypto as nothing but a ponzi scheme, yet by the end of this paragraph you admit that >If it develops that foundation then it will be like investing in a fledgeling industry, nurturing it until it can become self-sustaining and profitable. If those applications don't come through, it's just another scheme. Which is exactly what it is! I think lots of crypto debates should more accurately define their context. Are we debating if the current price of bitcoin represents its intrinsic value? Are we debating if bitcoin even has any value? ~~~ vertexFarm I don't see this drift you're speaking of. I actually really want to see cryptocurrency become a real thing, it has this amazing promise of computers maintaining a sense of absolute truth that resists all falsification. We desperately need to build a new decentralized system as the internet is brought under the control of fewer people each day. But it's not looking good so far. People need to be more mindful of how bubbles have played out in history. Realistic valuation is more healthy for a fledgeling industry than enormous, uncontrolled, and ultimately false sensationalist growth. I think anything has value so long as there's a group consensus of value. I'm not debating that. You say a fledgeling industry is exactly what bitcoin is, but I don't think we have strong enough evidence of that. I'm hopeful but skeptical. I'm allowed to be both. And if somebody calls me a concern troll I'm going to lose my mind. I hate that term. Eliminates any sort of realistic self-evaluation within a group. Sometimes it pays to examine yourself in a negative light. People gotta understand the possibility of it being a false promise as well as the possibility of it playing out well, but right now there seems to be two distinct and fanatical camps with no middle ground. ------ beefsack The shifting semantics of "crypto" is incredibly frustrating; it makes it very hard to talk about in the technical sense. I know that language is in a constant state of flux (my background happens to be linguistics) but it seems the mainstream media has a real penchant for butchering technical terms. ~~~ vertexFarm It's also starting to get really weasel-wordy. There's a billion crypto scams going on these days. It's not the only thing going on, but there's a hell of a lot of old-school cons and then there's a hell of a lot of softer, less malicious scamming that is just based on over-confidence in a very buzzy trend. ------ anonu Assuming a crypto asset is a currency, then no. You cannot invest in a currency. You can only speculate. Investing confers ownership in an income producing asset of which you have a percentage ownership stake in. ~~~ lopatin Bitcoin is not a currency (it's a commodity) meaning other coins are also not currencies because Bitcoin is the most currency-like of the bunch. ~~~ MatthewDPX So if it's a commodity, it's just speculation. Nobody invests in "corn" or "oil" for retirement. ~~~ MR4D I disagree - especially with you second sentence. I think you’d have a bunch of owners of XOM and CVX, etc stock that would beg to differ with you. And if you don’t like those, take a plane out to Midland, Texas and drive around a bit - you’ll find quite a large number of people who do invest in oil. They may be further out on the risk spectrum than you are, but if they aren’t investing, then you can’t call buying FB or GOOG an investment either. ~~~ MatthewDPX There is a big difference between investing in companies that produce commodities and commodities themselves. XOM, CVX, BP and the like are companies that are in the business of producing oil to generate profit for their shareholders. Owning XOM/CVX/BP stock is investing, because there's a reasonable expectation that the companies will make money and return that profit to their shareholders in the form of a buyback or a dividend. Owning an actual commodity is like buying art or trading cards speculating your purchase will go up in value based on some inside knowledge you perceive to have. That is the definition of speculation. ~~~ MR4D What if I buy crude oil in Texas, where it’s cheap, with the idea of selling it where it’s expensive (say, Europe) ? I’m still investing. In fact, I could build a company around it. And if I did, and then sold stock in that company to you and you used that as investment for retirement, then you would have just validated that buying a commodity is indeed investing. Maybe not all the time, but certainly some of the time. By the way, you can buy some of these companies today, under tickers such as TNP, NAT, DHT, among others. ~~~ brokensegue investing implies a long term horizon. if you are just taking advantage of an arbitrage opportunity then you are a commodity distributor/shipper or commodity trader. you aren't investing in the underlying asset you want to hold the asset for as short a period as possible to avoid the arbitrage disappearing beneath you. ~~~ MR4D Investing implies no such time horizon. Investing is spending money with an expectation of a return. For contrast, expenses have no expected return. Neither have a time horizon. And further, what would “long term” be anyway? Not sure how you could ever define it. ------ Cypher Its speculating, same as penny stops isn't investing. ------ Ologn > Bitcoin and Zcash are stores of value that allow users to participate in > this decentralized application space without the need for fiat currencies. How is Bitcoin a store of value? An ounce of gold is a store of value - someone had to do the work of finding and mining it, and it can be used to fill teeth and conduct electricity. Gold is portable, uniform, durable and divisible, so it is a commodity that has good currency qualities. But almost every commodity that can be sold is a store of value - what value does Bitcoin have? Bitcoin boosters scout around the world for some commodity to compare it to and fail, as it is inherently valueless and ultimately worthless, i.e. ultimately worth nothing. So they come across the US dollar, an item whose value has a question mark over it. So they say "this is like a dollar". Of course, one can then just say a joke cryptocoin like Dogecoin should have a market cap that is over half a billion dollars. And it does ( [https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/dogecoin/](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/dogecoin/) ). Even Dogecoin's creator says the half billion dollar market cap is all just a big joke. Bitcoin doesn't even have the portable quality of a good currency. Bitcoin transactions have hit large transaction latency issues (or had them when I last looked into it when I did a transaction a few months ago). So the "currency" isn't even good as a currency any more. US fiat currency was indirectly backed by gold until 47 years ago, and with the window then shut, it is now doubly-indirectly backed by that gold (the US did not get rid of its 8000 tons of gold at Fort Knox and other locations in 1971 when, apparently, a magic wand was waved over Treasury department printing presses, giving them the power to create value). I won't go into why the dollar and Bitcoin are not equivalent here (but if someone makes a coherent explanation why the US did not get rid of its 8000 tons of gold, I will). At least Pets.com, subprime new housing development real estate and so forth had value at some level. These cryptocurrencies have no value. They are all going to crash. I wondered for a while when and how that will happen, but now I know - things like Dogecoin and its clones will bring it down. Another thing - anyone who bought Bitcoin, Ethereum or Lumen in January is currently under water. All three currencies dipped at that time, and in fact all cryptocurrencies dipped simultaneously. So when the (total) crash comes, I predict all cryptocurrencies will go to zero. As Keynes said, markets can remain irrational longer than you or I can remain solvent. ~~~ Jommi >How is Bitcoin a store of value? An ounce of gold is a store of value - someone had to do the work of finding and mining it, and it can be used to fill teeth and conduct electricity. Gold is portable, uniform, durable and divisible, so it is a commodity that has good currency qualities. But almost every commodity that can be sold is a store of value - what value does Bitcoin have? Why do we keep going over this? There are tons of material online to help you to the other side of this argument, not to mention the article itself. One value of Bitcoin is in its decentralization. How can you say that is worthless? Is it worthless to have an alternative means of payment that is available to nearly anyone around the world and is not controlled by a single authority? I would very much like to see your thoughts on this topic, but please, before responding take a moment to think. Your current comment is so full of vitriol that I think it might blind your rationality. ~~~ hudon > One value of Bitcoin is in its decentralization. There is surmounting evidence that this is not true and that Bitcoin is actually quite centralized and would benefit from being more centralized [0][1][2][3][4]. [0] [https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.03998](https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.03998) [1] [https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2015/07/28/analyzing- the-2013-...](https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2015/07/28/analyzing- the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/) [2] [https://arewedecentralizedyet.com/](https://arewedecentralizedyet.com/) [3] [https://fc18.ifca.ai/bitcoin/papers/bitcoin18-final13.pdf](https://fc18.ifca.ai/bitcoin/papers/bitcoin18-final13.pdf) [4] [https://www.tse- fr.eu/sites/default/files/TSE/documents/doc/...](https://www.tse- fr.eu/sites/default/files/TSE/documents/doc/wp/2017/wp_tse_817.pdf) > Why do we keep going over this? Because blockchainers are not listening to the science... why would they? It invalidates their whole investment thesis. ~~~ Jommi Thanks for these links, usually when talking about it not being decentralized the source is either Forbes or Business Insider. Let's see what your sources have in store. EDIT: [0] [https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.03998](https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.03998) Good paper, lots of good research. Identifies that top pools do not change position too often. Shows also that system profits prefer higher pool sizes. However, fails to notice that pools are made of individual miners/groups and do not represenet single huge datacenters. Groups/individuals can often change pools, and this is not an uncommon practive. [1] [https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2015/07/28/analyzing- the-2013-...](https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2015/07/28/analyzing-the-2013-..). First thing to note is that this is 2013, when the bitcoin world was a lot more centralized (Only one major exchange, MT.Gox, much less visbiiltiy and credibility. I argue that more coverage results in a more decentralized system) Also, this is not really a decision of centralization, but feels akin to an UN meeting, where multiple actors discuss rationally the best course of action for their community, and then move in regards to that course. No one forced the community to follow their moves, but when they did, the results were better for the whole community. Of course, if they had not given advice from an authoritarian position, nobody might have listened. Yet, still Bitcoin would have survived, as explained by Buterin: [https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-network- shaken-...](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-network-shaken-by- blockchain-fork-1363144448/) [2] [https://arewedecentralizedyet.com/](https://arewedecentralizedyet.com/) See: Pools are not huge data centers >% of money supply held by top 100 accounts = 19% Not an accurate measure of centralization. Addresses do not mean single people, or even single organizations. Most of these addresses belong to either: >Zombie addresses of huge amounts of bitcoin gathered in the early days >Exchange cold and hot wallets >Huge organizations [3] [https://fc18.ifca.ai/bitcoin/papers/bitcoin18-final13.pdf](https://fc18.ifca.ai/bitcoin/papers/bitcoin18-final13.pdf) Commentary on the developer activity of bitcoin compared to other open source code projects. Shows some centralization, but still not even close to a central authority. Not to mention that anyone can join the project at any time. If we say Linux development is decentralized, then we can say bitcoin development is decentralized. This is not evne taking into account the interaction that needs to be done between the developers and the miners. [4] [https://www.tse- fr.eu/sites/default/files/TSE/documents/doc/...](https://www.tse- fr.eu/sites/default/files/TSE/documents/doc/..). Mostly about ineffieciencies in mining and decentralization. The core conclusion from the text is this: "This points to a major dilemma for distributed ledgers: On the one hand, the anonymity and decentralisation of public blockchains expose them to coordination failures and externalities. On the other hand, private blockchains can restore coordination and internalise externalities, but only to the extent that they involve the intervention of a centralised authority, which goes against the fundamental motivation for blockchain." Which I absolutely agree. Decentralized does not mean efficient, I dont argue that. \---- \---- \---- So all in all, the sources show that the decentralization of Bitcoin could be better. Yet, in all cases decentralization exists, and is not in imminent threat. To all Bitcoin "centralized" is not only erroneus, but disingenious. ~~~ hudon > However, fails to notice that pools are made of individual miners/groups and > do not represenet single huge datacenters. Groups/individuals can often > change pools, and this is not an uncommon practice. citation needed. The trend in proof-of-work mining is consolidation of costs into large data centers[0], hence why it is no longer profitable for you to run an ASIC in your garage. Furthermore, there are very few profitable pools to choose from [0]. Large miners risk losing a lot of money by changing pools partly because not all pools provide as much revenue as the others. > where multiple actors discuss rationally the best course of action for their > community, and then move in regards to that course. No one forced the > community to follow their moves, but when they did, the results were better > for the whole community. 3 individuals decided Bitcoin would orphan the longest chain [1]. The community had no say in the matter. How is that not centralized consensus making? > Which I absolutely agree. Decentralized does not mean efficient, I dont > argue that. It is not only efficiency, it is also robustness. The more centralized the consensus-making mechanism of a blockchain is, the least likely consensus failures are [2]. If no one would have took control in 2013, there would have been 2 chains for an undetermined amount of time, leading to massive levels of fraud and money loss [1]. Do you think society would benefit more from a Bitcoin that has massive consensus failures like that or would you rather a Bitcoin that has a central authority (the handful of GitHub commiters + mining pool operators) that can quickly fix consensus failures and prevent large institutions from losing a ton of money? [0] [https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.03998](https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.03998) [1] [https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2015/07/28/analyzing- the-2013-...](https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2015/07/28/analyzing- the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/) [2] [https://www.tse- fr.eu/sites/default/files/TSE/documents/doc/...](https://www.tse- fr.eu/sites/default/files/TSE/documents/doc/wp/2017/wp_tse_817.pdf)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Using MySQL as NoSQL Store - posulliv http://yoshinorimatsunobu.blogspot.com/2010/10/using-mysql-as-nosql-story-for.html ====== trjordan That's a really fascinating post. Definitely worth the time to read. Thanks. One of the things I don't understand is how the ACID properties carry over. InnoDB is fully transactional and ACID-compliant, but how does it manage this without the SQL locking that was slowing it down? Said another way, if the table/row locking overhead from SQL queries was such a problem, why is it in MySQL at all? Also, the problems he identified don't seem like they should be problems. Shouldn't you be able to all but eliminate SQL parse costs with prepared statements? Why are his PK inserts and reads causing table locks (since Google tells me you can turn this off)? This strikes me as weird. ------ Revisor Absolutely fascinating, agree. So just by talking on other ports they use the NoSQL or SQL approach, depending on whether they are doing primary-key-reads or more complicated joins. And the best part - they released the plugin to the public. Gotta try it! ------ RobGR This is a fascinating post. Some systems already have two parallel ways of looking up data built in -- an SQL backend such as MySQl and a fast key-value store cache such as memcached. Such a system might be able to be modified to treat the fast direct InnoDB lookup as the cache level, without modifying too much code. ~~~ mchouza It's similar to how FriendFeed uses (used?) MySQL: <http://bret.appspot.com/entry/how-friendfeed-uses-mysql>	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
xTab – Chrome extension to limit maximum open tabs - craigc https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xtab/amddgdnlkmohapieeekfknakgdnpbleb ====== craigc Just wanted to provide a little bit of context. This extension is NOT for everyone. It fulfills a very specific purpose. I have found that I constantly have way too many tabs open. I often click new links to open new pages without closing out older tabs, and it was getting crazy. Somedays I would have 30-40 tabs open. I wrote this extension so that I could keep a cap. You pick a maximum number of tabs an algorithm (least recently used, least accessed, or oldest) and as soon as you hit the cap it will discard an older tab. It will never close a pinned tab or a tab that you have never been to (never been to means you haven't been actove on the page for more than 3 seconds) The source is available on Github here: [https://github.com/ccampbell/xtab](https://github.com/ccampbell/xtab) ~~~ xrjn A user on Lifehacker posted this comment there, and I thought it would be a really cool option: Sorry, but this is stupid. I don't "not close" tabs because I'm too lazy and need a program to do it for me. I leave them open because I still need them as a reminder or to do list. So if that tool closes the least recently used tab there's the danger it's also the least well remembered point on my to do list. An option that would make that application useful would be Bookmark folder where it puts the closed tabs so you can still access them while they don't fill the RAM anymore.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
FBI Memo Concerning Roswell Incident - 22nd March 1950 - smallwords http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel_guy/Guy%20Hottel%20Part%201%20of%201/view ====== smallwords Just before anyone thinks this is a smoking gun. It is only from an informant. The FBI has this disclaimer: The FBI’s Reading Room contains many files of public interest and historical value. In compliance with the National Archives Record Administration (NARA) requirements, some of these records are no longer in the physical possession of the FBI, eliminating the FBI’s capability to re-review and/or re-process this material. Please note, that the information found in these files may no longer reflect the current beliefs, positions, opinions, or policies currently held by the FBI. Posted as it's a piece of history. Whether it is (in)accurate is not for me to say.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: weekend project – Quant finance academic paper aggregator - dia80 http://quantpapers.com ====== dia80 Hi all, thanks for taking the time to look would be interested your thoughts!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Mac Chips at WWDC - sleepyshift https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-09/apple-plans-to-announce-move-to-its-own-mac-chips-at-wwdc ====== Shank Don't get me wrong. I love the potential native performance gains from this transition, but I can't help but just be a tiny bit scared for the future of my day to day work. For better or for worse, my company uses Docker for Mac for the vast majority of the stack that I don't work on but need to actively develop. I'm already paying a huge VM cost and it's pretty terrible. I don't see Apple working on any kind of native containerization solution. Does that mean that I'm going to be eating the current VM cost + x86_64 virtualization cost in the future? I really want to keep using macOS as a platform. I know I can just stay on the hardware I have, but it's not really practical to be on an end of life architecture. It seems just a tad shortsighted to ditch x86_64 when a lot of people depend on it specifically because it's a shared architecture with other platforms. ~~~ PopeDotNinja I've given up on the dream of working in a place where I can still run "all the things" on my laptop, at least in a place that has embraced cloud services, Kubernetes, micro services, etc. ~~~ m0xte Yep. We're hanging ourselves with all this crap. There has to be a better way. ~~~ benologist VSCode has an SSH extension that lets you seamlessly work on a remote server, this has been invaluable with my old dual-core Macbook first offloading docker and my work to a vultr.com virtual machine and then a 6-core Intel NUC on my local network, which just feels like using the same computer. The only drawback I've found is I use "puppeteer" a lot which is an API for programmatically using Chrome and Firefox, sometimes I want to see what's going on. ~~~ m0xte Yes that’s the IDE I use as well with WSL2 on windows 10. Weird that windows turned out to be the best Linux distribution I have used. Ive got an 8 core Ryzen 3700x desktop with 32G of RAM and I can bring that to its knees easily. It’s ridiculous. ~~~ Recurecur You're a bit RAM starved at only 32 GB. My preferred environment is yours, inverted. Native Linux (likely Ubuntu 20) with Windows in a VM as necessary. That is making much better use of hardware IMO. It also gives you native Docker, and a ton of easily obtainable software. Much new software development is beginning in Linux or Linux-like environments, including most language development. Perhaps more importantly, Linux is the deployment target for most cloud based software. The company I work with (Fortune 100) uses Linux as the preferred deployment platform simply due to cost, along with sufficient quality. It's nice to develop, test and deploy all on the same infrastructure. Software turns out to be very interesting in terms of real lifecycle. Here in 2020, COBOL skills are in (relatively) high demand! While I'm interested to see the "Son of Unix", based on something like Rust and completely cleaned up, rationalized, and secured, Linux and Linux skills will be valuable for decades longer. Windows, I'm not so sure about... My next development system will likely be a 16/32 core/thread AMD chip. I'd hate to hobble it with the Windows kernel, it's really not aimed at that class system. Linux is. ------ hylaride Moving to it’s own chips may be fine and all, but I’d much prefer Apple to deal with the rotting quality of its OSes first. ~~~ MatthiasP There is a good chance that macOS is being neglected precisely because Apple is moving away from x86. ~~~ _ph_ It is quite plausible, that the quality problems of Catalina and iOS13 at the launch were a consequence of shifting the development team around to also support the development of MacOS on ARM. ~~~ andrekandre its possible, but im not convinced 1\. mac os has been buggy for quite a few releases already 2\. outside of drivers and apps, ios and macos are basically the same kernel and userspace/libraries, so there isnt much to port ~~~ _ph_ On the surface, there isn't so much new in Catalina oder iOS 13, that you would think that things break so badly, but they did. Starting a new branch of the development always is a disruption. Developers would be reassigned to new groups, probably the best ones even, new developers would join the existing groups. This process probably has started like 2-3 years ago and intensified like 1-2 years ago, especially after they had the first silicon to play with - and I assume the CPU will be sufficiently different from an iPhone so that you want to at least optimize your code for it, there might also be entirely new features to support. ------ neximo64 Hopefully the new macs are faster. Here's something you can try yourself: My 10 year old Macbook pro running lion, if I go to the Safari menu in the corner click it and move the mouse up and down really quickly over the menu items, the responsiveness is instant & there is no flickering. Doing the same with the * * max spec * * 16" Macbook Pro has flickering. Easily reproducible in this very Safari window if you're reading this on a Mac. Everything has been downhill this decade with the quality. If the focus was on ARM then hopefully if it was a resource diversion the quality is good after. Well i hope at least.. ~~~ wodenokoto The annoying thing is this is what mac was famous for, for a long time. Often, the price would give you considerable lower specs than a PC, but the mac would be faster to desktop, faster to start working in an application, smoother IU, longer battery life, etc. Focus on macs used to be "faster to work with, not faster to calculate with" It was those things that warranted the higher price tag. ~~~ zozbot234 > Often, the price would give you considerable lower specs than a PC, but the > mac would be faster to desktop, faster to start working in an application, > smoother IU, longer battery life, etc. Focus on macs used to be "faster to > work with, not faster to calculate with" Linux is the new Mac, then. It's really fast even on otherwise low-end hardware, and the price tag is pretty hard to beat. ~~~ tomxor > Linux is the new Mac As a Linux desktop convert I find it hard to disagree. I used and owned macs from the 68k through PPC and one intel (C2D), they were all fast (to use), that last intel one from 2009 still felt slick... but that's where it stopped for me, everything got super bloated and slow afterwards. I may not be 100% correct here but it seems like most of the problems are with their OS and software, which is a shame because they are the only remaining computer company that has retained control over all of their hardware and software - something that should have always given them an edge in fine tuning, but they seem to be throwing it all away. ~~~ eitland FWIW I wrote this on my blog the other day which supports your observations from another angle: > _I have seen developers starting to use Linux machines for a few years > already. It kind of reminds me of how it felt like when devs started to > adopt Macs around 2005 /2006 or so when Ruby on Rails became popular. And > just like when Macs became popular, mainstream adoption seems to follow: > I've already seen a sales guy running Ubuntu Linux (by his own choice) over > a year ago._ Note: the driving forces aren't exactly the same, but the feeling is reasonably similar in my opinion. Also I should note that the adoption of Linux among sales and other non-devs has surprised me. ~~~ tomxor > Also I should note that the adoption of Linux among sales and other non-devs > has surprised me. That is interesting, I've seen colleagues go both ways - well three ways - Web devs going from windows/mac to linux, then a couple going back to both windows and mac due to needing to use adobe products (used to dual boot and now use WSL). Most people pick up on and appreciate the difference in speed/responsiveness and ease of doing dev (i.e it has an actual proper built in package manager that is fast, no brew crap). Whether they stay seems to be more to do with dependence - people who really like it even start to re-evaluate if they are truly dependent on software they liked, vs their new found utility. Media seems to be a big problem, (adobe et al), but sales perhaps not, i mean office is all going cloud these days anyway. ------ rado My 3yo iPad Pro is ridiculously faster than my 3yo iMac at some tasks like photo editing. It's night and day. Also quiet, cool and thin. Very excited about the Arm transition, warts and all. ~~~ nojito My favorite workflow comparison between desktops and iPads is rendering/exporting 4K video. ~~~ realityking This is actually a trick comparison. A lot of desktop software doesn't make use of hardware encoding facilities, even if available, since a good software encoder will provide better quality. ~~~ chrisseaton > a good software encoder will provide better quality Why is hardware lower quality? Isn't the encoding algorithm deterministic and so the same wether you do it in hardware and software? ~~~ galad87 The decoder is deterministic. The encoder is free to decide where to allocate more bit of which block type is better in a specific place or other things. A software encoder can be improved without replacing the entire cpu/gpu. ~~~ chrisseaton Ah so I guess hardware is generally a bit behind due to longer release cycles and more conservative in design due to cost of experimentation and mistakes. ------ bgorman If Apple doesn't provide some form of acceleration or support for x86 hypervisors I can see this leading to mass exodus of the Mac platform for web developers. It will be interesting to see what Apple does. Given the technological steps Apple has made, it seems like it is only a matter of if, not when Apple will switch over some computers. I personally would predict the Macbook Air (potentially a new Macbook), Mac Mini, iMac and potentially the iMac Pro will switch over to Arm first. It seems like a poor risk/return ratio to switch the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro lines to Arm at this point in time. Who knows what the manufacturing yield will be on the initial 5nm chips. ~~~ danpalmer > I can see this leading to mass exodus of the Mac platform for web > developers. Why _web_ developers? I'd have thought that web developers would be some of the last developers to abandon Macs due to a change in architecture given that lots of web development is done in scripting languages which would need minimal support to move architecture, and the fact that Apple's ARM chips tend to perform well in JS benchmarks. I'd expect that it would be system software engineers working in languages like C/C++ who would abandon the platform given that the majority of their tools and libraries may need extensive porting work. ~~~ bgorman Web developers frequently use Docker for Mac which is a way to run Linux containers (which are most frequently built for x86-64), which requires a way to run a x86-64 hypervisor. Docker for Mac runs a Linux VM that in turn runs the containers running on developers laptops. ~~~ stingraycharles Doesn’t this answer your own question though, the Docker vm is just virtualized to x86 and that’s it? ~~~ panpanna It's virtualized for the same architecture, which is not very costly on today's CPUs. ARM emulating x86 is a whole different beast. On the other hand, why not run arm-docker on a virtual arm-linux?? Why does it have to be x86? ~~~ jitl Last time Apple did this (PPC -> x86), the new Intel CPUs were so much faster & more efficient than the equivalent PPC chip that programs ran at the same speed under emulation, and the system & native programs ran much faster, so it was still a worthy upgrade. ~~~ btown For power efficiency this may be true this time as well... but for sheer performance and latency under spiky web-style workflows, I'm not hopeful. ------ chrisseaton I'm really worried - there's software that I rely on such as parts of the JVM ecosystem that haven't had as much much work put into them for ARM as they have for Intel. How long do we have to bring things up to speed? Just a year? Obviously everyone has known this is coming but I haven't seen much action yet. If we get the worst case scenario and Apple ships _only_ ARM hardware from January 2021, then I feel like there's going to be some serious problems. ~~~ rjsw From the OpenJDK commit logs aarch64 seems to have been getting a fair bit of attention over the last year. I do run OpenJDK on aarch64 and it seems fine but I don't run anything particularly serious. If Apple ship an AArch64 machine with plenty of RAM then it would make a big difference to what applications people try to use. ~~~ dehrmann I think the complaint was more about libraries using JNI than the JDK, itself. There's a popular sqlite library that ships with native libraries, otherwise falling back to transpiled code. I'm not sure if they've done much work for ARM. Java's actually the easy case. ARM means a lot of docker containers won't work, your development architecture is different than your protection architecture, cython libraries, etc. This is probably the right move if you want to build a laptop with good battery life, but sort of like removing the escape key, it's problematic for a large segment of Mac buyers. ~~~ chrisseaton > I think the complaint was more about libraries using JNI than the JDK, > itself. No it's the compilers in the JDK, at least in my case. ------ theblackcat1002 On the other side, AMD APU code name was found in latest macOS release which should hint the other side of the story. [https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-may-start-selling- ma...](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-may-start-selling-macs-with- amd-cpus) ~~~ ksec I much prefer them to switch over to AMD if cost was a concern. Rather than outright dumping x86 codebase. ~~~ dehrmann I doubt that cost is the concern. Both Apple and Intel are big players, they can find a fair price between them, and Apple always had the threat of switching to ARM to get better prices. I'm pretty sure this move is for power consumption and maybe so all Apple products are on the same architecture. ~~~ ksec A13X cost $30, compared to cheapest Intel used in MacBook Air cost $200+. I think it is quite a difference. That means consumer are paying $300+ for x86 compatibility. ~~~ ogre_codes > A13X cost $30, compared to cheapest Intel used in MacBook Air cost $200+. You aren't comparing costs fairly here. A13X costs $30 each + $XXX million to develop. With Intel the development costs are part of the SKU. If Apple launches a series of desktop CPUs, the cost to develop those chips is going to be substantial. Some of that cost will be in common with the iPad/ iPhone, but a good chunk will be unique to their new CPUs. Since Apple ships far fewer Macs than iPhones, the development cost/ unit will be significantly higher. ~~~ philwelch iPad Pro is already beating some MacBooks in CPU benchmarks. Apple might just reuse the same CPU’s. ~~~ ogre_codes > iPad Pro is already beating some MacBooks in CPU benchmarks. Apple might > just reuse the same CPU’s. Maybe some. Just considering the size of the devices, I'd expect the 16" MacBook Pro would have beefier CPU options than the iPad Pro. ~~~ philwelch Sure, but I don't think the design cost is going to be that high--maybe even less than the design cost of having separate iPad and iPhone CPU's. ~~~ ogre_codes Maybe. But they will likely have at least 3-4 different CPUs for the various Macs and different clock speeds for those different designs (though clock speeds and core count will likely be handled primarily through binning). Development cost for each additional CPU will be spread over fewer and fewer units. \- MacBook Air \- High performance MacBook \- iMac / Mac Mini \- iMac Pro/ Mac Pro If next gen Macs are going to support some kind of x86 emulation/ compatibility layer, performance isn't going to have to be comparable with Intel, it's going to have to be 2-3 times faster so I'm expecting something quite a bit beefier than what the iPad Pro ships with. ~~~ ksec Yes that is why I also wrote in another reply [1] it doesn't make much sense financially. And I dont quite see how it make any sense technically either. Even if Apple refuse to use AMD CPU for whatever reason Intel's investor roadmap ( Which tends to be more accurate then what they shared to consumers ) shows they are finally back on track. ( It will still take a year or two to catch up though ) Software is expensive, writing, testing , QA. On the hand, they are spending billions on stupid Apple TV Dramas, I guess they might as well make their own CPU for high end Mac. [1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23465728](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23465728) ~~~ ogre_codes > it doesn't make much sense financially. This I disagree with. The Intel premium here is likely somewhere in the ballpark of $100-200 per CPU. Spread across 16-20 million Macs sold per year, we're looking at conservatively $2 billion/ year they can invest in CPU design. More important, Apple will control what features get added to their CPUs and can integrate other functionality into the CPU the way they have with the A-series chips. ~~~ ksec Yes if you look at it from all of Mac perspective and selling it at the same price ( Which I hope they dont ) But per unit, it would be MacBook funding development of higher TDP CPU from 50W to 250W. Those are low volume, require new Node tuned for Higher Power, and possibly some design changes. If they follow the same Chiplet design as AMD, that could be $500M budget. If they are making the same monolithic die that could go up to $1B+. And this is a recurring long term investment. ------ rbanffy Funny... A move to AMD would be less disruptive to the macOS ecosystem and would solve the roadmap issues. It seems AMD will have the lead for a good couple years right now. Intel must be creating a lot of problems for Apple to warrant this move. Or maybe AMD is not willing to give Apple the same sweet deal Intel gave Apple to get the transition. ~~~ hodder ...Or more likely, they don't want to ever be relying on a third party ever again for chips since whoever they go with holds great power over their progress and timelines. ~~~ dehrmann > progress and timelines There haven't been many interesting CPU changes in a long time, and they're still using TSMC for fabrication. Arguably, you're better off with two vendors. I'm not sure if Apple has genuine roadmap concerns or is falling in the not invented here trap. ~~~ rbanffy Wouldn't be a first for Apple, but this is no longer Jobs' company. ------ Nursie Well, there goes the Hackintosh! Well, eventually, I imagine that Apple will continue to support their x86 Macs for some time, especially as we've recently had the launch of the revamped Mac Pro which is not a cheap machine. But maybe ten years down the line they'll stop updating it and that will be that. ~~~ abrowne I imagine you're right, but G5 owners might predict differently. They only got one more major release (10.5) once Apple switched to Intel, although there was a longer release cadence than there is now. ~~~ joshstrange Ahh yes, before we had yearly iOS compatibility updates for the mac... I'm still salty that Apple broke my reminders in Mojave just because I upgraded my phone. They will have to use a much larger carrot or stick before I consider moving to Catalina. ------ api This recent event has converted me to a full blown supporter: [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-2310](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-2310) I lost days of time to what very much appears to be yet another hardware bug in Intel's latest core. If you don't believe me that it's a hardware bug, read the whole thing. It's probably a zero day security vulnerability too. The only catch is: if Apple also takes the opportunity to iOS-ify Mac and lock it down to the point that it is no longer useful for professional work, I will have to drop the platform entirely. I've seen some decent AMD Ryzen laptops showing up on the market and I could use Linux with a Windows VM for the occasional Zoom call or similar thing. Honestly though... I think if Apple pulls this off well without alienating their user base, it probably spells the end of the X64 architecture outside cloud and servers. Given that people prefer to deploy to the same architecture they develop on, it probably means X64 will eventually die in those areas too. AArch64 could end up being the core architecture of almost everything by the 2030s. ~~~ rezonant Yep, when a computer manufacturer with 10% desktop market share switches processor architectures, surely that will dictate whether the architecture will die. <\-- This is sarcasm, to be clear. ~~~ michaelhoffman Strangely enough, Apple's architectural hardware choices have a history of having effects on the broader market disproportionately to their market share. ------ meesterdude Apple ditching intel could lead to some great improvements in hardware, but I would be _much_ happier if they made no changes to the hardware and actually started investing in OSX again. Catalina is a disaster. I've been using macs since OS 7 and I cannot believe how bad Catalina is. ~~~ nicbou What is bad about it? I'm still on Mojave ~~~ kup0 In my personal experience, I would say it's the buggiest and least snappy version of macOS I've used in quite a long time ~~~ mark_l_watson I think that the lack of snappiness is mostly caused by the new sandboxing and security features. I have mixed feeling about this. Things can run slower especially at startup, but extra security is a good thing. ------ mromanuk My wild prediction: Apple will remain using x86, but based on AMD chips and integrating stuff like ML, security, etc. Both of them use TSMC as foundry. ~~~ adamfeldman Came to say something similar. I’d love to see some kind of hybrid x86-ARM system that is able to retain the value of Apple’s x86 investments while also leveraging Apple’s deep ARM investments in the PC product lines. ~~~ adamfeldman Hyperscaler servers (eg AWS Nitro) have dedicated hypervisor processors, and then customer workloads run on another processor. Imagine this architecture in a PC: macOS as “hypervisor” and applications as the user workload. ------ jurmous Could it be that Apple brings an X86 emulator on the machine like they did with Rosetta in the PowerPC to Intel transition? Most calls to native libraries like Metal and UI would be handled natively so we probably don't notice slowness in most apps. Even Chrome and nowadays Adobe Photoshop are compiled to ARM versions. If so this will be a smooth transition. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_%28software%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_%28software%29) ~~~ Mindwipe > If so this will be a smooth transition. That is extremely unlikely. Anything involving gaming is unlikely to run at even 50% of it's performance. It is going to be an extremely, extremely rough transition. ~~~ tgv Anything that uses a lot of CPU or pushes much data around. I use Logic to make music. Many of te plugins run on one core, and can take up 100% of it. If performance via emulation is around 50%, that means a lot of drop-outs in the sound, and basically an unworkable situation. Been there, seen it, don't want to go throug it again. The bigger plugin makers will probably port their products, but it's going to cost the user; the smaller ones may simply give up macOS completely. ~~~ jurmous You assume it is a lot of work to port the plugins. Most likely it only needs a compile for a new architecture. And they will probably have months to check that checkbox in Xcode. It is not like they have to switch to a new programming language. ~~~ cageface Audio plugins are one of the few software domains where you'll still often find handcoded assembly in performance critical sections. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of third party vendors don't make the transition. On the other hand DAWs are more complete in the box now than ever so this is probably less of an obstacle to switching from the users' point of view than it would have been 5 years ago. ~~~ waterhouse Video too. I paid attention to the commits to x265 for a while, and quite a lot of them were like this: asm: AVX2 version of saoCuStatsE3, (136881c -> 45126c) Just counting lines, there's more assembly than C++: ~/x265> find source -name '.cpp' \| xargs cat \| wc -l 95358 ~/x265> find source -name '.asm' \| xargs cat \| wc -l 168690 That said, x265 does compile for ARM, and has ARM assembly as well, though much less of it, as of when I last updated my copy (March 2017): ~/x265> find source/common/arm -name '*.S' \| xargs cat \| wc -l 11014 Looks like, in today's codebase, the line counts for .cpp, .asm, .S are 111188, 203423, 12217 respectively—so proportionally much the same. ------ seanalltogether My only concern here is that the Mac line still only represents 10% of Apples revenue, and they might not give these desktop processors the attention that a supplier like intel or amd would to their own processors. I hope I'm wrong but I feel like Apple has been making serious missteps in the mac line for the past 10 years because its no longer their core product. ~~~ bredren The Mac (a PC-style computer) is a strategic investment, due to its role in software creation. The brand is also part of the core image of the company. Apple still commands only a fraction of the overall PC market, and while that is not growing as whole, their portion could by a great deal. You’re right that there have been major missteps. But there have also been major corrective steps as well, which are just as important in gauging how the company will behave in the future. ------ dblooman Having tried Windows on ARM with the surface, I was surprised that many apps I use every day were not available. Perhaps Apple will be better at onboarding developers to the transition, but will also be interesting to see how long developers continue to support Intel. Can anyone speak as to the difficulty of working with ARM and Windows? ~~~ akmarinov They announced the move to Intel in 2005 and dropped PowerPC support in 2009, so I'm guessing about the same period for the ARM transition. ~~~ shoo_pl Unless they pull a rabbit out of hat, they will not have a x86-64 emulator this time (for the same reasons why intel is struggling with speed/power efficiency ratio for years now) so it won't be that easy. It will be either ARM of Intel hardware and people will have to choose. ~~~ chrisseaton > Unless they pull a rabbit out of hat, they will not have a x86-64 emulator > this time (for the same reasons why intel is struggling with speed/power > efficiency ratio for years now) I don't understand what you mean - you absolutely can emulate AArch64 in AMD64. You can emulate any instruction set in any other instruction set. ~~~ scintill76 They're saying it won't be fast or power-efficient. ------ whywhywhywhy >Apple’s chip-development group, led by Johny Srouji, decided to make the switch after Intel’s annual chip performance gains slowed I'm just not really buying this as the justification, Mac has almost never been about competing on raw performance and moving to ARM could even mean a large performance hit for most software where performance counts for years to come. Although I guess we also keep getting lectured on how amazingly powerful iPad Pros are yet we never really see them do anything beyond a paint program, GarageBand level music production, basic video editing and keynote. ~~~ scarface74 Apple has successfully done this twice before. Each time, major developers ported within the first two years and in the meantime, Apple sold computers with the old processor and new processor. ------ pickle-wizard I think this would work well for me. Most of my day is spent with SSH or RDP sessions to systems that do the heavy lifting. So I'll welcome the power and heat savings. Though I don't think I'll be buying one soon. When I travel I have a 2018 MacBook Air and when I'm at home I have a 2013 Mac Pro. Both machines still work great for my needs, and I plan to keep the Mac Pro until Apple stops OS updates for it. When it comes time to replace it, I'll replace it with a Mac Mini, and I don't need a machine that powerful anymore. ~~~ Frost1x I guess I'm one of the smaller minority who prefers a hybrid with a significant amount of local compute power and remote compute power. Going all- in with thin client architecture is something I've never been a fan of, namely because it puts a fundamental resource I need to do my work in someone else's control/hands. Much of the time, this is advantageous (and I prefer someone else managing things for me when it works) but I run into far too many snags where its nice to know I can get something done with local resources that I have control over when needed. ------ _ph_ I am quite excited about this rumor. If only to finally find out what Apples plans with respect to ARM based Macs are :). Also, just in general it would be exciting to have a real contender for intel-compatible chips on the deskop. I still can remember the times when there were several competing architectures. And obviously, Apple has the potential to create really game-changing chips, considering what they are doing with the iPhone hardware. One thing I still find peculiar is, Apple could have had nice ARM-based computers for quite a while. They are actually selling them in the form of the iPad, especially the Pro. But what keeps people to the Mac vs. the iPad is less the hardware, but mostly the software. The decisive difference in practical terms between macOS and iPadOS are the mostly artificial software limitations of iPadOS. While Apple loudly advertices the ability to copy files from an USB stick to "Files", the fun usually stops there. App support for file exchange is still very limited, you cannot even copy music to Files or your iCloud drive and add this to Apple Music or the TV app. So I find it a bit odd that they have to create ARM based MacBooks just as a solution to a basic problem of their software. ~~~ nradov I expect that Apple will gradually phase out MacOS, and add more features to iPadOS that will make it suitable for content creators. It never really made sense for Apple to maintain two overlapping but incompatible product lines. I predict in a few years they'll launch a laptop running iPadOS. ~~~ _ph_ The problem is, and that is what I tried to point out with my comment, that the only thing preventing the iPad to be useful for more people is, how artificially limited iPadOS is. It is a great device, but not a replacement for a computer. ~~~ tonyedgecombe If you look at the direction of recent releases then you can see those features being added. The latest version has trackpad support for instance. I don’t imagine much is going to change right now but I wonder what they might be planning for the next decade. ~~~ _ph_ Yes, since they separated the OS from iOS, development of the iPad has somewhat gone into the right direction. But it took them a decade to add mouse/trackpad support, this is moving at a far to slow speed. And the fact, that you cannot add music to your iPad on your own, shows, how happy Apple is with its limited usage szenarios, there is no good reason for this behavior. They could have made the iPad a real MacBook competitor, the hardware is up to it. Apple has decided to keep the software limited and even prohibit third parties of closing many of the gaps. ------ bob1029 I read this article very carefully, and I still have not yet seen any confirmation here or prior that rules out a semi-custom solution involving the other x86 vendor. Perhaps this is just a game of semantics? "Its own mac chips" vs "x86+ARM chips co-designed by AMD & Apple, fabricated by TSMC, and slapped with an Apple logo". From AMD's semi-custom page: "We are not bound by convention and don’t subscribe to “one-size-fits-all” thinking. We develop customized SOCs leveraging AMD technology including industry-leading x86 and ARM® multi-core CPUs, world-class AMD Radeon® graphics, and multimedia accelerators. We offer the option to further customize each solution to include third-party and/or open market IP or customer designed IP. Discover how you can differentiate with AMD Semi-Custom solutions." [https://www.amd.com/en/products/semi-custom- solutions](https://www.amd.com/en/products/semi-custom-solutions) I still cannot see a hard switch to ARM without any HW x86 capability in the mix. The impact to user experience would be very dramatic and the PR would be a nightmare to deal with. The way I see this playing out is that the next gen of Apple hardware provides both an x86 and an ARM stack, with subsequent generations potentially being ARM only (i.e. w/ x86 emulation). There is just too much software investment in the x86 ecosystem at this point. You have to give people a path to migrate peacefully or they will never return. This isn't like prior architecture switches. The impact with PPC->x86 was not even 1/100th what the impact would be today if Apple forced a hard x86->ARM switch. All of that said, I can understand why they would want to keep something like this under wraps until T-minus 0. ~~~ thomascgalvin What you said makes sense, particularly: > There is just too much software investment in the x86 ecosystem at this > point. But I don't have any confidence in Apple's leadership anymore. There was a lot of software investment in 32 bit apps, too, and they merrily launched a nuke at that entire library. Do I _think_ they're going to drop X86? No. But is it a possibility? Absolutely. ~~~ scarface74 Have you been following Apple for the last two decades? They have always dropped legacy support - 68K, Classic MacOS, PPC, 32 bit software. Keeping compatibility forever has its own drawbacks - maintenance, performance, increased vulnerability surface, regression testing etc. ~~~ timw4mail 68K support on the hardware side happened in OS 8.6. On the software side, it wasn't dropped until the Classic environment was. Legacy support has deteriorated more rapidly recently, it seems. ~~~ scarface74 The last 32 bit Mac was shipped in 2006. They announced they weren’t going to port Carbon to 64 bit about a decade ago. Was there really any great surprise that you shouldn’t be writing 32 bit software in 2015 let alone 2019? ~~~ timw4mail I think the bigger surprise is that the first Intel Macs were 32bit and/or had 32bit EFI. My gripe is more with how long they supported PowerPC on the Intel side. ------ ksec It is easy to reason for switching to their own CPU on MacBooks or MacBook Pros, roughly at 16M Unit per year. But what about Mac and Mac Pro? Combined to less than 2M Unit. Are we going to have Split in platform where developers is expected to debug on both Arch? This isn't the same as moving from PowerPC to x86, where majority of Pro Apps are already on WinTel. ARM is still relatively new on many Pro Apps. Adobe may be slightly better equipped, but not AutoDesk. If not, would Apple spend additional hundreds of millions on 100W+ CPU design that are sold in tiny quantities? It is also worth pointing out Mark Gurman has been saying this since before he joined Bloomberg when he was at 9to5Mac. And since 2016 when he joined Bloomberg the rumours were taken more seriously. And the first rumours to suggest Apple is working on ARM Mac goes back as far as 2010. ~~~ nojito They don’t want to be dragged along by Intel failing to meet deadlines. ~~~ benologist Or they just want to fold the hundreds of dollars per machine going to Intel into their own profit margins. ~~~ nojito Intel forced Apple to support 32bit computing for almost 10 years because they couldn’t meet deadlines. Apple has been dreaming about this day for years. ~~~ benologist It's hard to imagine this is really Intel's fault and not just Tim Cook looking at a multi-billion dollar per year expense as an opportunity - they buy like 20 million processors a year it's a ton of money even by Apple's standards. Even Intel's lacklustre results in recent years seem like an unlikely catalyst - Apple couldn't have foreseen 14nm++++++++++++ back in 2015. In 2008 though, Apple acquired PA Semi to design chips. This project has probably been percolating since shortly after that. ------ drcongo Given who wrote this, and for which publication, this article definitely needs the Daring Fireball disclaimer. ~~~ whitehouse3 Here's the disclaimer that appears below any post on Daring Fireball that links to Bloomberg. > Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in > October 2018 — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, > Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s > intelligence services. The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, > was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a > single other publication (despite much effort to do so), and has been > largely discredited by one of Bloomberg’s own sources. By all appearances > “The Big Hack” was complete bullshit. Yet Bloomberg has issued no correction > or retraction, and seemingly hopes we’ll all just forget about it. I say we > do not just forget about it. Bloomberg’s institutional credibility is > severely damaged, and everything they publish should be treated with > skepticism until they retract the story or provide evidence that it was > true. [0]: [https://daringfireball.net/2020/05/bloomberg_publishes_click...](https://daringfireball.net/2020/05/bloomberg_publishes_clickbait_in_break_from_rivals) ------ dehrmann It's interesting how Apple takes the opposite approach of PCs. PCs have been on x86 variants forever, to the point that MS-DOS will run on a new PC without much fuss. For Apple, this makes, what, the fourth architecture for Macs? ~~~ akmarinov Imagine the cruft and patches that have accumulated in the past 42 years since x86 came up... ~~~ ksk On the flip side, how many generations before a new CPU architecture becomes robust and mature to be relied on for critical work? We're still using crufty Wintel at work (vaccine r&d), its simply the best platform that keeps our investment in existing software. ~~~ akmarinov Luckily ARM isn't anything new. Even Aarch64 is almost 10 years old. ------ derefr By including even the Mac Pro in the eventual transition, Apple seems to be expecting to have their own chips beating out Intel/AMD compute performance for workstation-class tasks within the next 5-10 years. You'd assume they'd keep the "halo products" running whatever chips are best-of-class, rather than whichever are most cost-effective to put in; so if they're switching for even those product lines, they're seemingly expecting their own chips to become best-of-class. That's an interesting bet, given how long the two giants have been at this. ~~~ idiot900 Is it? How much faster are CPU cores going to get? Also, Apple has many billions of dollars to throw at this. ~~~ derefr > How much faster are CPU cores going to get? Whenever we hit a Moore's Law bottleneck, we see a transition to new CPUs being increasingly optimized for power-efficiency instead. Whether or not FLOPS remain a moving target, FLOPS-per-watt will very likely continue to grow for a few more decades. > Also, Apple has many billions of dollars to throw at this. Unless they're planning on selling these chips on the open market, I don't see how "throwing billions of dollars at this" project can be justified to their shareholders, even if it's something they can technically afford to do. As it is, it's a pure cost-center optimization (i.e. removing the need to pay Intel, at the expense of now needing to make the chips themselves.) This presumably balances out _slightly_ positive on their books, not mind-bogglingly positive like a new product line would be. "So"—the prototypal shareholder asks—"why are you putting $bns/yr worth of silicon engineers to work on _this_ , rather than putting them to work on feature cores to create+differentiate a new product line?" In my mind, it only works out for Apple if it's actually _not all that expensive_ for them to reach parity with Intel/AMD; i.e., if it's something they can do while still having silicon-engineering talent left over to keep doing feature engineering for new hardware. Which is what I find interesting: how did Apple reach this point, where they can leapfrog Intel/AMD without it even being a "drop everything" moonshot project for them? ~~~ my123 AMD's whole revenues are very small compared to Apple, and the Mac and iPhone will share the same big CPU core uArch. ------ skellington Whelp....that's the end of Apple for most/many professional developers. Apple is working really hard to give up their PC market share again like in the PowerPC days. Great OS (although worse than usual recently), doesn't run any (hyperbole but rooted in truth) software. If they would just focus on running MORE software, especially games, they could probably grab so much more market share, but they are happy at 10% it seems. ~~~ kenward I agree it's pretty frustrating from a developer standpoint. However, the majority of people aren't developers and just want a computer that works. I could see this as a way to _increase_ market share and reduce the barrier to entry to expensive Apple products. ------ jagger27 I'm curious to see if they'll open up access to the T-series chips in our existing Macs to at least experiment with or use as a co-processor. The T2 is no slouch—it's based on the A10. It also makes me wonder if they'll ship a lower wattage Intel part alongside their Arm chips in a transition period. I think that would be kinda cool, and would ease a lot of backwards compatibility woes. Or they could keep things more or less the same and just beef up the T2 with more cores and interconnect bandwidth. It might not make much sense to ship a dual CPU Macbook Air, but it would certainly be cool to see Arm PCIe addon cards for the Mac Pro, where power and heat concerns are not as significant. ------ ziml77 I've seen this headline for a decade. Is there anything that makes it more believable now? ~~~ Hamuko The ARM Mac rumours have been quite hot lately if that's any indication of their accuracy. ------ mberning I would like to see a return of the Macbook. I loved the form factor on mine, but after a couple OS updates the anemic processor became a painful bottleneck. On the flipside my several years old iPad pro still feels blazingly fast. ~~~ jrsj Really the new MacBook Air is essentially a slightly larger continuation of that design that also has a fan, specifically because the processors in the 12" Macbook weren't that great. I could definitely see a future ARM based Air returning to a fanless design though. ------ amanzi I don't use a Mac any more but from what I see and hear, most Mac users aren't clamouring for more speed or for even thinner laptops, but for a more stable, less annoying operating system. ~~~ beamatronic I want a thicker, heavier Mac with lots of ports. ------ ilikehurdles Truthfully, and to go against the grain a bit, whatever makes the platform faster sounds good to me. If my IDE, browser, and terminal tools continue to run just fine I'm not going to be up in arms about this change. We've been married to x86 derivates for too long, even more so to Intel's critically broken implementations of them. Shitty keyboards and useless touch bar aside, Apple has had a long history of pushing the envelope in radical and beneficial ways. ------ PedroBatista That means they have to keep up with CPU performance for the next decades. It might be easy now but let’s see if they don’t hit a pothole and have to go back.. ------ rukittenme This is great news for software engineers, IMO. More battery life (hopefully), comparable performance (hopefully), and lower cost (hopefully). Contrary to popular belief, I think Apple has embraced those three principles in recent releases more so than they were 5 years ago. Everyone who writes software on macOS is probably virtualized already. Really shouldn't be any downside to this for the vast majority of programmers. ------ twoodfin Notably missing: Any hints about hardware for developers. My conspiracy theory is that the sketchily rumored “gaming laptop”[1] is actually a hot rod ARM MacBook focused on developers to get the transition off with a bang. [1] [https://www.macrumors.com/2019/12/30/sketchy-rumor-gaming- ma...](https://www.macrumors.com/2019/12/30/sketchy-rumor-gaming-mac- wwdc-2020/) ~~~ MaysonL My conspiracy theory is that there will be a dual-boot iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard combo for a few $K… ~~~ _ph_ If Apple wanted, they could just offer a developer version of macOS for ARM that runs on an iPad Pro. This would completely solve the question of hardware availability for developers. Especially as lots if not most developers already have one of these. ------ robert_foss The article mentions higher GPU, NPU performance and higher efficiency. All of this I would expect since the SOC is likely incorporating much of their mobile experience/IP. However, it doesn't mention CPU performance or IPC, both of which will be extra important due to the binary level compatibility for x86 I would expect them to ship. ------ wyldfire There have been a few models of Windows-ARM snapdragon-based computers for a little while now. Somehow, mindblowingly, they didn't bother to ship the first ones with a native Chrome port (only Edge). Now that they have native Chrome, and Apple is moving macbooks, I wonder if the tide will shift towards ARM for all laptops? ------ wil421 How many times have I heard about an ARM MBP, an Apple TV (a real TV with screen), an Apple Electric car, or Apple Glasses? ------ toron123 I read somewhere that emulation of x86 on arm is much wrose compared to emulation of arm on x86. Can someone confirm this? ~~~ NathanWilliams I don't know the answer to that, but keep in mind that Apple is control of the entire CPU design. They could for example put an x86 decoder in front of the ARM cores. After all, modern Intel processors decode x86 to a simpler instruction set used internally anyway. ~~~ pixelrevision Doing something like this would be the smart move. If the do this they’re going to need to give developers lead time to get their software up to date. ------ miguelmota I see in the comments that a lot of web developers are frustrated.. what programs do web developers use that only work on macOS? or is it also because of the retina screen? I've been developing on Linux for years without issues so trying to understand why devs choose macOS. ------ atlgator Haven't we been here before? ~~~ dhosek This would be the third major CPU change for the mac architecture: 68xxx to PowerPC, PowerPC to Intel and now Intel to ARM. ~~~ jerrysievert I'd say technically fourth, since x86 -> x64 was also a hard cutoff eventually with Catalina. ~~~ cpeterso And iOS's ARM -> ARM64 cutoff was another architecture transition Apple (and developers) had to weather. ~~~ jerrysievert ah yes. I don't tend to do iOS development, so completely forgot about that one other than having a lot of the apps I loved stop working. still grumpy about pirates and civ rev being gone forever. ------ hs86 iOS apps on the desktop and the switch from x86 to ARM have uncomfortable many parallels with Windows 8 / RT. How is Apple's approach going to be different from Microsoft's? Will they keep backward compatibility? Will the CPU architecture really be a day and night difference or are our expectations too high due to the ubiquity of inflated Geekbench numbers? This will either make or break the Mac as a platform and I feel like currently, any further investment would be a gamble. ~~~ pixelrevision One thing that would be very different from a windows transition is that Apple is much more aggressive about pulling support for backwards compatibility. MS spends a lot of energy to support really old software for businesses whereas Apple typically gives a 3 year window then pulls the plug. ------ nsajko I wonder if there was consideration within Apple of switching back to PowerPC (power9/power10) now that it is open (for whatever that means, I am not sure)? They would appreciate the control that would give them. Does somebody have an idea how much approximately would it cost Apple to switch the Apple A14 from ARM to POWER? Usually it is said that the instruction decoder is a small part of a CPU core, and the ISAs are not hugely different (compared to AMD64/Intel, at least). ------ neonate [https://archive.vn/ogP3y](https://archive.vn/ogP3y) ------ NoPicklez I wonder why they're deciding to go back, after all they used to develop their own chips back in the day. ~~~ mathw Apple have never used their own CPUs for desktop computers, only for phones and tablets. ~~~ philjohn Unless you count the AIM alliance - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM_alliance) ------ Koshkin "Project Kalamata" ------ velebak The great unification continues between iOS and Mac! ------ watersb A lot of discussion here about Windows/WSL2 or Linux on laptops, how it's gotten good enough for the HN crowd. The overloading of the Control key as the system menu shortcut ("accelerator"?) key when it's also the default Emacs bindngs for readline in Bash -- drives me utterly insane. If it were consistent, great, but on Windows there are many different text widgets, from PC console, Win32, and other layers. I simply can't develop the muscle memory. I have a very cheap HP laptop, the trackpad driver is nearly unusable. I installed the Synaptics Control Panel, and use it to "reset" the trackpad each time it wakes from sleep so that I have a chance at scrolling without randomly selecting the entire document's text and deleting it or dragging it to random places. It's horrible. On the Lenovo x230, the tiny trackpad is a bit better, but tiny, and the physical trackpad buttons give me the chance at dragging etc in the face of such madness. It's all very nerve-wracking. The trackpad on the MacBooks have never been a problem for me. Then there's text encoding. The Win-1252 Code Page. Turning UTF-8 into unreadable line noise in unpredictable situations. The CRLF madness that grows back no matter what. I use WSL2, Terminal, and VS Code, but it's unbelievably exhausting. Digging out of config issues with Code Signing certificate policy required a re-pave and 12 hours of re-installing etc to get back to sanity. Something needed an old VC Runtime DLL, which installed fine, but also seemed to overwrite a Microsoft root CA cert. Differential analysis with a working Windows we couldn't find the broken cert. Various msc tools and System Policy analysis and Troubleshooters and so on couldn't find it. The CERT: filesystem "provider" stopped working. It was a dead machine. Linux and macOS configs, I generally know where config files are, and can restore from backup. Want to restore from a Windows Image Backup? Or a copy of the file system from another Windows installation? Go ahead. Try it. I got heavy into PowerShell, there are some nice bits there, but it still has to fall back to text processing in pipes if some other tool doesn't output the correct data. Usually JSON, but is that schema documented? Certainly have yet to invest the time in Bash tools that might interact with PowerShell. It just doesn't stop. It just doesn't. I must accept that people are actually getting work done by adding WSL to the mix, but I guess I just break things. I don't seem to break things as badly on Solaris or Arch or even Gentoo or any of the BSDs. I have not given up on macOS. On the contrary, I will get another Mac laptop. It's a lot of work. ------ danaris Thus far, the only source for this is Bloomberg, which published the story "The Big Hack", which was shown to be complete bullshit. They have still not issued a retraction, an apology, or any kind of acknowledgement that their reporting was so completely wrong. Their credibility on issues of tech—particularly Apple—is very suspect. (See also: Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect) ------ toyg That’s me going bye bye then. It was fun while it lasted. After the keyboard fiasco and “Vistalina”, this would be the last straw. ~~~ jbsmsk The keyboard "fiasco" was fake news. Overblown by the loud minority and with later iterations probably not an issue at all. But it's a stain that couldn't be washed away (they tried with the replacement program, but likely wasn't effective enough). At worst the keyboard "issue" is just a preference. ~~~ Hamuko > _At worst the keyboard "issue" is just a preference._ Yeah, I prefer to have my B key registering 100% of the time instead of 80% of the time. ------ Fiahil Next in line: macos on ipad. ~~~ FreakyT iPadOS on Macs seems more likely given Apple's trajectory, I'd say. ------ inapis This transition would be fun to watch. Mac has a huge legacy, enormous amounts of apps and sometimes it is embedded deeply in a lot of workflows that it would be very challenging to displace. Unlike the PowerPC -> Intel transition, this time round, Apple has the iOS ecosystem to tap into. We'll probably still have 4-5 years before the Intel Macs are completely abandoned but then this is Apple we are talking about. For all intents and purposes, they might cut the umbilical cord in 6 months. Adobe is probably the only company which can delay the complete transition for some time. Edit - removed the line about electron. As others have pointed out, electron already runs on ARM. ~~~ tinus_hn Apple threw away a lot of that legacy by not supporting 32 bit apps anymore and the world did not stop turning. ~~~ tgv OTOH, the world continues using 10.14 Mojave. At least, I do. ~~~ whynotminot Yeah, I've transitioned my main Mac laptop to Catalina, but I keep my Mini on Mojave because it does happen every once in a while that I need to run a 32 bit app. I can't afford to be all in on Catalina at this time.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Two Congressional Staffers Who Helped Write SOPA Become Entertainment Lobbyists - philjackson http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111209/10151917022/shockingly-unshocking-two-congressional-staffers-who-helped-write-sopapipa-become-entertainment-industry-lobbyists.shtml ====== DevX101 You'll never find a politician worth his/her salt taking cash from a company. The way its done is to push through favorable laws for a company with a wink and a nod, and then come back and work for the company as a consultant/lobbyist with a minimum 1 million dollar per year salary. Billy Tauzin did this quite well with PhRMA (lobbying group for pharma companies). He headed up the committee which oversees drug companies and led the push to pass the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill which was quite favorable to drug companies. The bill among other things allows drug companies to set an arbitrary price for the drug without Medicare having the option to negotiate on prices. As soon as the bill was passed he retired from Congress to lead PhRMA with a $2.5 million USD per year salary. Mission complete. ~~~ DiabloD3 Short of Ron Paul, where do you find politicians, nay, statesmen who don't take cash from companies? ~~~ twoodfin Considering it's illegal to take campaign contributions from corporations, I don't think you find many serving politicians who are doing so. ~~~ beernutz Not any more it isn't. Freaking supreme court. 8( [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Elec...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission) ------ kyledrake Lauren Pastarnack's Twitter account is @lpastarnack Feel free to express your opinions to her. Remember that the only reason they do these things is because they don't think anybody is paying attention. Let her know you're paying attention. ------ mathattack Regulatory capture is the natural side effect of regulatory control of industries. Look no further than Barney Frank asking the companies he regulated to hire his SO. ~~~ gujk A balance of power between multiple branches and levels of government, and aka oversight, can mitigate that. Not perfect, but neither is nonregulation. ~~~ mathattack There is no perfect solution, and complain as I do, we still have something good and fixable. In general I prefer less regulation and smaller government so we can let the market handle resource allocation for us. The less pie for the govt to waste, the better we are. I believe regulation is definitely needed where there are externalities: pollution, access to education, basic r and d... ------ nextparadigms This won't end lobbying, but it's a start in the right direction if people call their Congressmen and ask them to vote for it: [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/saving- our-...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/saving-our- democracy_b_1137783.html) ------ click170 I thought Obama already passed a bill that was supposed to prevent lobbyists->industry shenanigans like this when he first came in to office. I remember it being portrayed as the first bill he signed. Am I misremembering things? ~~~ hammerdr It was an Executive Order that only affected the Executive branch. But, there has been some abuses of an exception clause in the executive order. More information can be found at (the previously linked on this thread) [http://www.politifact.com/truth-o- meter/promises/obameter/pr...](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o- meter/promises/obameter/promise/240/tougher-rules-against-revolving-door-for- lobbyists/) ------ rickdale I thought Obama was going to 'change' washington and more specifically end the bs lobbying that continues to punish the people of the United States. Most lobbyists are going to be scum, but in a place where having job is so cherished, you can't blame them for doing their job. ~~~ illumin8 How exactly is the President, who is head of the executive branch, going to fix the shenanigans going on in the legislative branch? Remember, the President doesn't make laws, he just enforces them (indirectly, through the Executive branch). The real problem is that asking legislators to pass laws against their own self interest will never work. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure that no President can solve this problem. Blaming Obama because you don't understand high school level US history is pretty sad and doesn't give me a lot of confidence that the average voter will ever solve this problem, either. ~~~ hammerdr The President certainly does have legislative power, some directly appointed and some not. He has the ability to veto bills. His VP--effectively an employee of his branch--has the ability to break ties in the Senate. He is also the leader of his party. The President can direct the party to focus on a particular issue. Granted, this is more "soft" power than "hard" and there is only so much political capital a President can use. But, Obama in particular was elected with a large majority and is dealing with a Congress that has an approval rating of about 12 percent. Futhermore, and more indirect, the President can elect Federal judges (not just Supreme Court justices, but Federal court and appellate court judges) that can "legislate from the bench." Effectively creating or destroying law that would prevent or enable, respectively, lawmakers to be a part of the Revolving Door[1] and to take money from lobbyists. So, yes, most of the blame is on the legislators. But the President does not get a free pass. [1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_door_(politics)> ~~~ shadowfiend A few things to keep in mind. First off, the President appoints judges and justices, but in no way does he guide them once they've been appointed. When appointing these positions, the best the President can do (keep in mind they have to be confirmed by 2/3s of the Senate) is to try to pick someone who will not undo years of jurisprudence the President agrees with. Once the position has been appointed, the President no longer has any control, and I believe the evidence says Presidential initiatives have both been supported and torn down at various times by the same judges and justices they've appointed. Additionally, the President is the leader of his party,but there is a significantly greater power to being the leader of the Republican party than that of the Democratic party. This is because the Democratic party is much more fragmented and pulls from a much wider pool of underlying ideas than does the Republican one, so legislators representing their communities will be much tougher to keep on a coherent party message on a given issue. This is why, despite the strong hand he was dealt, the healthcare package passed by the Congress was lackluster at best: the Republican support was uniformly against it, while the Democratic support was extremely fragmented. The President gets a free pass insofar as one has to look and see whether he's used the tools at his disposal to try to guide things in the right direction. You don't judge him by the result, but by whether he did what he could to influence it “correctly”, no matter what the result ultimately was. In the specific case of lobbying/corruption, mind you, I think (a) the evidence is unclear-to-negative and (b) Obama quickly decided to lose the focus on that in favor of trying to pull out of the recession as best he could and passing some of his legislative priorities. Whether the latter was a good decision or not is definitely up for debate. In a similar vein, the civil rights verbiage from the campaign for the most part went into a tailspin within a year of his taking office. ~~~ hammerdr All great points and a finer tooth comb of nuances than my own analysis :) It all goes to show that the system in Washington is a complex piece of machinery that requires a hacker mentality to succeed. I absolutely and truly believe that the same mentality that makes great programmers also make great political operatives. Regardless of political ideology, I think we, as a community, can get involved to a much larger degree to help influence and shape the world from the other side of the business/government divide. ~~~ shadowfiend Definitely true. I think, unfortunately, that it seems like the hacker mentality also lends itself more to cynicism, and the end result is that the hacker mentality lends itself more to a bit of fatalism when it comes to the government. That, combined with the (less pronounced, perhaps) tendency of the hacker mentality to dovetail with introversion, makes it harder for the hacker community to get involved in that sense. That sounds cynical, of course. I do think we can get better :) And I think SOPA for one was a great example of the community going “hang on just a second here…” ------ dpres Relevant video from article comments: Jack Abramoff: The lobbyist's playbook <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHiicN0Kg10> ------ chaselee Shockingly unshocking perfectly describes my reaction. ------ dmorre this makes me sick. ------ Sundog And Chris Dodd quietly retire to become President of the MPAA ------ NHQ Add their names and faces to the Public Shaming Website!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
3 Apps for Guaranteed Dates This Autumn - xbuilderx https://medium.com/@DineWithMike/3-apps-for-guaranteed-dates-this-autumn-dc31cdceb86a ====== DrScump This author should have investigated (and mentioned) basic privacy issues first. I immediately deleted Coffee Meets Bagel once they started _requiring_ Facebook authentication earlier this year. ~~~ xbuilderx Interesting. Something I noticed however, almost any new dating app that comes out these days will require facebook login. It's the new standard with the main positive being that each user must have a "verified" fb account. It gives a lot of users ease knowing that this feature screens out bots and other malicious activity. Obviously if someone really wants to break through the system they can make a phony fb page and then add some friends ---> verify---> make a fake account but that's a lot of work. Can I ask you, why does FB login bother you/make you feel like they are violating basic privacy? ~~~ DrScump Can I ask you, why does FB login bother you/make you feel like they are violating basic privacy? Somebody _creates a disposable HN account_ to question somebody else's privacy concerns? No irony there. Anyway, everything Facebook _does_ violates basic privacy en route to productizing you. User data is their entire business model.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Climber Dean Potter Killed in Yosemite BASE Jump - eplanit http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/us/yosemite-base-jumpers-dean-potter-graham-hunt-deaths/index.html ====== huac Rest in peace Dean Potter. This CNN article doesn't do his life justice at all - the NYT did a bit better: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/sports/dean- potter-extreme...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/sports/dean-potter- extreme-climber-dies-in-jumping-accident-at-yosemite.html?smid=fb- nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000).	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: asyncblock - Node.js async flow control built on fibers - scriby https://github.com/scriby/asyncblock ====== keyston Impressive work.. Next time I work with node I'll keep this in mind. One thing that would be nice is the ability to chain blocks. I can't think of a example at the moment but didn't see any examples that showed if this is possible already or is that the purpose of .defer()? ~~~ scriby Chaining blocks works, for instance something like: var queryResult = getDatabase().sync(). getCollection().sync(). fetch({ query }).sync(); Assuming all those are asynchronous operations. Chaining wouldn't work with .defer() right now. It only supports syntax like "var x = something().defer()".	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Intel Quark Runs on Roof, Raises Questions - ChuckMcM http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319447 ====== ris "We looked at Freescale and ARM too but decided on using Quark" Interesting that he doesn't say why here. There's no "it simply had better performance", "it did more with the power budget" or other reason. I suspect Intel were quite eager to have a customer and case study to launch with. ~~~ ams6110 Two sentences later: "Security software gave Intel the edge over ARM." ~~~ ris It's a pretty lame reason. A "HVAC giant" should easily be able to lean on a software vendor to get their software running on anything (sane) they ask them to. (McAfee security software? really?) ~~~ fnordfnordfnord >(McAfee security software? really?) It's a name people who wear hard hats recognize. Commercial HVAC people aren't hip like us. ~~~ gonzo It's also an Intel subsidiary. ------ ChuckMcM So if you were still wondering if ARM isn't directly lined up in Intel's sights, this should dispel that notion. For a couple of years now I've noted that one advantage ARM had that seemed quite durable was you could put it into the SOC of your own design, but you could not do that with an x86 chip. If Intel is willing to allow that it is a potent weapon. ------ tedsanders Can someone knowledgeable comment on whether Intel's foray into the realm of ARM and embedded systems is significant? Will anything substantial change as a result of their entry into this already populated market? (I guess one thing the article mentions is that Quark is potentially more secure than the alternatives. Presumably embedded systems security will be a bigger issue as we approach the future Internet of Things.) ~~~ wmf Every non-x86 processor from Intel has failed, so there's that. ~~~ meepmorp The i960 did ok, and still finds use in some military applications. But, on the other hand, Itanic. ~~~ jes Yep. Fond memories of writing an execution trace disassembler for the i960CA back in the early 90s. The chip had an 8-bit incremental trace bus, which made it possible to produce an execution-time instruction trace, as long as the code didn't modify the instructions in memory. ~~~ kps I wrote and instruction scheduler for the i960CA, which was fun. (For those who don't know, the i960CA was the first superscalar microprocessor.) It took assembly code as input and contained (as close as I could get from public docs to) a cycle accurate timing simulator. Less fun was the associated project of getting the GNU assembler and linker to run under 16-bit DOS. I recall that at the the time the linker consisted of _one_ giant source file, and one of the tools (I think the assembler) contained the wonderful declaration: int malloc(); ------ rektide What's the volume on a reasonable sized small batch of chips? How small of an order does it make sense to go down do doing your own chips? If one buys the IP, is it Intel fabbing the chips, or do you have to take the resultant work elsewhere, or is it your option? ------ samspenc Does anyone know how fast this thing runs? Is it comparable to 386, 486, Pentium speeds, etc?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Termtosvg: Linux terminal recorder to create standalone SVG animations - nmstoker https://github.com/nbedos/termtosvg ====== nmstoker Interesting, as the advantage over [https://asciinema.org](https://asciinema.org) is the SVG can just be placed on a site and it should just work. Currently seems like it is more limited than asciinema as there are no controls (play/pause/repeat/speed), but presumably not beyond us to add that kind of thing via some simple JavaScript. Playing recorded sound along with it would be the premium option, but that's probably letting my imagination get away with itself! Would be interested to see basic analysis of how the SVG file sizes compare to ttyrec files and GIFs etc.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Why reading 100 books a year won’t make you successful - aytekin https://medium.com/swlh/why-reading-100-books-a-year-wont-make-you-successful-1863dad5944d ====== Maro Reading is input. To be successful, you have to produce output. If you spend too much time on input, there's not enough time for output. ~~~ aytekin It took me many years to build up the courage to go full time on my business. All the books I read gave me that confidence. I was thirsty for knowledge and reading other experiences made a difference for me. I had a rough guide about what was ahead. At some point you need to stop reading and start executing. But, don’t feel bad about reading if you still haven’t filled you tank. ------ Martolinea I think speed reading is a great skill but rather for reading articles when I need to learn something quickly or find specific information - then "scanning" the text is useful. For books? Come on... Just dedicate some quality time daily and choose a book wisely. ------ muzani I agree with the title but highly disagree with much of this article. Speed reading does work well, but you have to deliberately practice comprehension. I've read well over a million words in the last month. Fiction and history books are especially wordy, but are worth reading fast. Ever read Stephen King? He's got some excellent ideas, but you have to just slog through the descriptions. I'm grateful I can speed read as it makes the book more like a story that flows. But in general, the really good books are very hard to read, because the ideas are hard to grasp. Going for X books a year means you end up selecting "easy" (and thus, less impactful) books. ------ projektir I don't think the objective of reading books is to be successful. This has the same problem as "going to college won't get you a high paying job". ------ RickJWagner My problem is that I stick with a bad book for too long. I keep thinking there'll be more 'good' parts, but it's lost time. I'd probably benefit from reading fewer books, but sticking with quality material. ~~~ mxschumacher it took me a long time time to reach the level of maturity as a reader to say "enough is enough" and dropping books a couple of hours in. "starting what you finish" at any price is a waste. Life is too short for bad books. ------ segmondy Reading doesn't make anyone successful. Working does. Reading improves your knowledge if you read the right stuff. Working and applying what you read improves your odds. ------ WheelsAtLarge Reading for reading's sake is entertainment. You have to actively put what you learn into action for the knowledge to be effective in your life. You can't do that when you read 2 books a week. ~~~ setr The other problem is _what_ you read; if you’re reading 2 books a week... you’re probably not reading very good books, if only because it would be difficult to maintain a backlog of good stuff at that pace. You normally build a library of hundreds of books over a decade, and a thousand books in a lifetime is _impressive_. I wouldn’t be surprised if most people reading at this pace have a library similar to barnes and noble, with perhaps the cult classics of their field. But I can’t imagine their actually committing to much research in each subject area, and thus, not much depth ~~~ projektir Given that many people don't read in the first place, I'd be very happy having people reading a library similar to Barnes and Noble, and I think this attitude discourages reading overall. People generally get into reading by finding things they like first. I think this falls into an optimization fallacy, where you are trying to optimize for some faraway conclusion like success and miss the forest for the trees. Reading, even a fun novel, is very beneficial. ~~~ setr Sure, but reading 100 books by michael crichton doesn’t offer much value beyond the first. My point is that _both_ quality and quantity are important (and diminishing returns apply). The speedreaders described in the article Im assuming have focused primarily on quantity, leading to the lack of value derived. ------ swingline-747 Felix Dennis called these sort of cargo-cultings "point-at-the-sky guide to success." If the billionaire points at the sky, clearly that's really, really important. _sarcasm_ ;) ------ COil He could have written too : "Why reading 1 article a day on medium won't make you successful".	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Breaches of Unsecured Protected Health Information - jtwarren https://ocrportal.hhs.gov/ocr/breach/breach_report.jsf ====== fricat1ve Electronic health records have been way oversold. Expecting every little medical office to have industrial-grade data protection makes them far more of a liability than they are worth. At best mostly subjective observations, at worst full of outright errors, they're largely useless from a health care perspective let alone for research purposes. ~~~ gervase In my (relatively limited) experience, most small medical offices pay for cloud-based EHRs on a subscription basis for this exact reason. Have you observed differently? With regards to the usefulness of medical records, I don't know enough on the topic to address that point. ~~~ jacquesm > In my (relatively limited) experience, most small medical offices pay for > cloud-based EHRs on a subscription basis for this exact reason That mostly increases the size of the bucket without much in terms of guarantees of the maintainers of that bucket getting it right. ------ killjoywashere Since you're looking for ugly lists FDA disbarred investigators [https://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/FDADebarmentLis...](https://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/FDADebarmentList/default.htm) FDA compliance proceedings [https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/SDA/sdNavigation.cfm?...](https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/SDA/sdNavigation.cfm?sd=clinicalinvestigatorsdisqualificationproceedings&previewMode=true&displayAll=true) ------ delbel There's some kind of database called MIB that sells all your medical information like a credit report. I haven't figured out how to opt out of it or where exactly they get the data so I can opt out of it before they even send it. It's some kind of horrific atrocity. Please somebody expose this to everyone: [https://www.mib.com/request_your_record.html](https://www.mib.com/request_your_record.html) ~~~ Dayshine >a member company cannot search MIB or report information to MIB without the applicant’s knowledge and authorization. Sounds like you consented... ~~~ jcims Maybe. It's up to the member company to obtain the consent and report as such to MIB. I just started shopping for term life insurance recently and have an application that was emailed to me by a local agent. It looks very much like this one ([http://www.adkissoninsurance.com/forms/grangelifeapp.pdf](http://www.adkissoninsurance.com/forms/grangelifeapp.pdf)), EXCEPT someone has removed the Notice of Information Practices at the top Page 5 contains the authorization details. Here's what page 5 looks like on my application - [https://imgur.com/a/zk9ZQ](https://imgur.com/a/zk9ZQ) (also Grange) This is from a top tier life insurance provider, who knows what kind of shenanigans are going on out in the wild. Edit: Just sent an email to my agent asking for a copy of that Notice of Information Practices doc, we'll see what happens lol. ------ telchar I wonder how many of these are encrypted systems. I see a lot of "theft" and "loss" on that list. I know if I were to lose a system that had PHI on it I would be required to report the breach even if the system had full disk encryption. I'd bet many or most of these are similar. ~~~ miles > _if I were to lose a system that had PHI on it I would be required to report > the breach even if the system had full disk encryption_ According to the Texas Medical Association[0], > there are only two reasons a lost device may not have to be reported as a > breach under the HIPAA Breach Notification Rule: (1) no PHI was on the > device, or (2) the PHI is unusable - encrypted with FIPS 140-2 encryption [0] [https://www.texmed.org/HIPAALostLaptop/](https://www.texmed.org/HIPAALostLaptop/) ------ Sylos > As required by section 13402(e)(4) of the HITECH Act, the Secretary must > post a list of breaches of unsecured protected health information affecting > 500 or more individuals. Well, I'm glad this random webpage is broadcasted into the internet and therefore everyone is properly informed about these breaches. This is the same as Google providing that page somewhere deep in the account settings where you can view what data they have on you. It's beneficial for them to provide this, because 99.99% of users will never find it anyways. And those that are concerned can be calmed down by it. ------ ams6110 I care less about health info privacy than identity. When I was a kid, hospital admissions were published in the daily paper. Nobody thought much of it. The number of people interested in your health is tiny. The number of people interested in your money, and motivated to try to take it from you, is much higher. ~~~ dfee Enjoy: Your medical record is worth more to hackers than your credit card [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cybersecurity- hospitals/y...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cybersecurity- hospitals/your-medical-record-is-worth-more-to-hackers-than-your-credit-card- idUSKCN0HJ21I20140924) ~~~ ams6110 > names, birth dates, policy numbers, diagnosis codes and billing information In other words, identity information. ------ vxxzy Hint: Don’t press “Archive” or you wont’t be able to sleep at night. Crazy how many breaches have occurred. ~~~ jtwarren I think it's interesting that while there are a ton of breaches, we only know about them because HHS requires breach reporting when it affects over 500 patients. How often is this happening in other industries where such regulations don't exist? ~~~ killjoywashere This is the thing. HIPAA is really a gold standard in data security legislation. As terrible as it is (e.g. the fax machine loophole, which is surely put there for lawyers), at least there's something punitive. And other things can be tied to it: grants, FDA can disbar them from collaborating in drug development, etc. Imagine breach notifications for a company like Facebook. FCC could disbar you from transmitting data over mobile networks. ~~~ djrogers In California that’s been the law for over a decade. Arguably, California’s breach disclosure law is the reason we know about the vast majority of large breaches we hear about. ------ arkades The NYS Office of Mental Health appears to have been breached. ------ craftyguy HIPAA should burn these companies/organizations. Should. ~~~ killjoywashere And then what? Where does the population go for care? Better to have a track record on long-standing organizations that play whack-a-mole. ~~~ craftyguy A doubt the penalties for violating HIPPA are going to put any of these out of business. I said 'burn', not 'destroy'. ~~~ jlgaddis > _HIPPA_ HIPAA	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
3D Game Shaders for Beginners - lettier https://github.com/lettier/3d-game-shaders-for-beginners ====== 60654 That's a very cool intro to a variety of shader techniques, especially post- processing effects. What's even more wild, is that modern engines include all of this stuff out of the box, you just have to tick a few check boxes to enable them in your game. :) For example, check out these postprocessing filters built into Unity and Unreal - a ton of person-hours went into these: [https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/PostProcessingOverview.html](https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/PostProcessingOverview.html) [https://docs.unrealengine.com/en- us/Engine/Rendering/PostPro...](https://docs.unrealengine.com/en- us/Engine/Rendering/PostProcessEffects) ~~~ JacobiX I agree with you, however in almost all commercial games that I worked on, we do write our own shaders. For simple shaders, artists use directly a graphical tool included in unity for shaders authoring without writing any code, for complex ones we write our own code. ~~~ aurelwu do you write them completely from scratch or do you write custom nodes for whatever node-based shader editor you use? I am a novice when it comes to shaders but I wonder about the performance difference between hand written shaders vs generated from a node-based editor. ~~~ JacobiX Nowadays it's more valuable to create custom nodes to enrich the node-based editor library. Sometimes we write shaders from scratch if we need to implement some original lighting, materials, etc ------ barbwire Am I just out of touch with what the kids today are doing, or is this formatting really as bonkers as it seems? int main ( int argc , char *argv[] ) { // ... LColor backgroundColor = LColor ( generateLightColorPart(207, 1) , generateLightColorPart(154, 1) , generateLightColorPart(108, 1) , 1 ); // ... } I can (sort of) see that this makes it easy to comment out parameters - except for the first one... ~~~ p1necone I've noticed this formatting in sql scripts before too - the biggest benefit I see is making source control diffs only show one line changed rather than two when adding/removing lines. ~~~ edflsafoiewq Is that a benefit? ~~~ PudgePacket Yes. When you git blame a line you won't get a commit just adding/removing a comma changing on that line. ~~~ newaccoutnas Some languages/DSL's allow for a comma at the end of the list too, thereby getting the same result but without the slightly strange comma at the start of the line. Adding additional lines is simple then and doesn't cause the line above to be pulled in to any git action ------ Scene_Cast2 A great way to play around with shaders (without booting up your editor, compiling, etc) is [https://www.shadertoy.com](https://www.shadertoy.com) and Shadron ([http://www.arteryengine.com/shadron/](http://www.arteryengine.com/shadron/)) ------ goldenkey This is really nice! The same techniques can be used in WebGL 2.0 which is at ES 3.1 on canary versions of WebKit. I had a hell of a time using the experimental compute shader API to implement a cellular automata framework [1] The big issue with using WebGL at the current moment, to do large scale sims, is that fragment shaders dont have an entire workload barrier capability - so you cant do interdependent work. Compute shaders have full workload execution and memory barriers. Just something to be aware of if you are trying to jerry rig fragment shaders to do more advanced things like HDR via min/max over all colors..there is no way to these kind of aggregates without calling the shader twice, unfortunately. [1] [https://github.com/churchofthought/Grautamaton](https://github.com/churchofthought/Grautamaton) ~~~ planteen I have been wondering why WebGL isn't getting updated to ES 3.1 (and 3.2). Good to see at least 3.1 parity is coming: [https://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/latest/2.0-comp...](https://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/latest/2.0-compute/) (I didn't know it was on the horizon until I saw your link). I wonder if getting to ES 3.2 is on the horizon as well? That would bring geometry and tessellation shader support. ~~~ Jasper_ I refer to the Mali Performance Guide for wisdom into Geometry Shaders: [https://static.docs.arm.com/100019/0100/arm_mali_application...](https://static.docs.arm.com/100019/0100/arm_mali_application_developer_best_practices_developer_guide_100019_0100_00_en2.pdf#page=19) > Using geometry shading will generally lead to worse performance, high memory > bandwidth, and increased system power consumption. Assert if geometry > shaders are used Geometry shaders are not what you want. They should not have been included in GL ES, and I will fight their inclusion into WebGL 2.1. Tessellation shaders are better, but still kinda ultimately useless. ~~~ planteen Yes, I agree the performance is an issue in most use cases, but wouldn't you agree there is value in there being parity between WebGL and OpenGL ES? It's valuable for those of us who work with Emscripten to cross-compile apps for the web. And there are things like line drawing algorithms that have uses for geometry shaders: [https://github.com/paulhoux/Cinder- Samples/tree/master/Geome...](https://github.com/paulhoux/Cinder- Samples/tree/master/GeometryShader) It's not like geometry shaders are specific to OpenGL ES. Desktop OpenGL has them, as does DirectX and Vulkan. ------ csdreamer7 Cool! Is there a tutorial for cell shading? (The Borderlands 2 or Paper Mario look.) ~~~ Jasper_ Those are two drastically different artstyles. Neither of them really are engine shader stuff, just someone drawing good textures in Photoshop. Paper Mario is all hand-authored baked vertex colors and very simple textures. Artists spent a lot of time in Maya hand-tweaking each vertex individually, e.g. see my viewer here [https://noclip.website/#ttyd/jin_00](https://noclip.website/#ttyd/jin_00) Borderlands has some basic engine technology with outlines -- running a basic Sobel on the depth buffer to find depth discontinuities and drawing lines there, but most interior lines are on the texture itself. Lighting is also modified with a ramp -- the "raw" incoming radiance from lighting is thrown into an artist-authored lookup table and tweaked before being thrown to the shader. Normal maps are seldom used. ~~~ jayd16 >find depth discontinuities and drawing lines there, but most interior lines are on the texture itself I honestly thought a lot more was going on here but now that I look back at it you seem to be correct. Impressive how simple it is. ------ soup10 Cool, looks like it briefly covers a lot of topics	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11 - feross https://www.macrumors.com/2020/09/09/sign-in-with-apple-epic-games-disabled/ ====== aboringusername This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU will levy the world's biggest fine at Apple, I predict north of $5 billion if not $10 billion for abusing their status with this being a notable case. Certainly, for public opinion, it means you now have to "tow the line", no protesting allowed. If you dare challenge us, we WILL REMOVE YOU. Horrible company. ~~~ jmpman Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms. ~~~ gamblor956 Unlike Apple, larger developers can use their market leverage to negotiate better rates, and many have, which is why you don't hear Epic or Rockstar complaining about MS or Sony. This point is key to the difference, since antitrust is about market interference. If market participants can use their own leverage to push back against another participant's market activities, then you don't have an antitrust violation. _Apple does not allow negotiation. It 's take it-or-leave it._ Microsoft and Playstation also allow for cross-platform play, and crucially unlike Apple, actually provide a significant amount of services to developers for their cuts, including but not limited to QA services, SDK and hardware support from actual MS/Sony employees, and marketing spend. Additionally, while MS and Sony require all developers to use their stores or APIs for IAP, they allow developers (at least large ones) to heavily customize those storefronts, and charge significantly less than 30% for the enforced privilege of using their IAP APIs; the exact rates being a matter of negotiation. ~~~ ctroein89 > Microsoft and Playstation also allow for cross-platform play Sony explicitly didn't allow for cross-play until 2 years ago [[https://kotaku.com/sony-is-finally-allowing-cross-play-on- th...](https://kotaku.com/sony-is-finally-allowing-cross-play-on-the- ps4-1829326043)], even though it was technically possible before then [[https://www.engadget.com/2017-06-24-rocket-league-cross- netw...](https://www.engadget.com/2017-06-24-rocket-league-cross-network-play- ps4-xbox-one-interview.html)]. In fact, the only reason Sony opened up to cross-play is due to pressure to stay competitive with rival platform Xbox. This was a take-it-or-leave it situation, but Sony was too big to leave. Nothing changed until Sony caved to social pressure. If the argument is that Apple is a unique kind of device that Apple has a monopoly over, it would hard to argue that Sony and Microsoft don't enjoy the same monopoly powers. On the other hand, if argument is that it's easy enough to switch from Playstation to Xbox, then how is that different from buying a new phone? In fact, I would bet that Epic sued Apple not because it's more monopolistic, but because they want to set a legal precedent that they can then apply to Playstation, Xbox and Switch, without threatening Epic's core business on consoles. ~~~ xnyan > On the other hand, if argument is that it's easy enough to switch from > Playstation to Xbox, then how is that different from buying a new phone? Would you be willing to agree that the relative importance of a smartphone in 2020 is far greater than the relative importance of a video game console in virtually everyone’s lives? ~~~ ralfd As we are talking about a first person shooter game and not some “relative important” app, no I would not. ------ sandstrom Alright, so Apple are forcing all developers to add Sign-in with Apple (if they have other third-party login services), privacy benefits aside. But if you Apple decide that they don't like you anymore, they'll not only cut you off the App Store, they'll also bury all (or a subset of) your users. Apple is starting to act more and more like a bully. [1] [https://developer.apple.com/app- store/review/guidelines/#sig...](https://developer.apple.com/app- store/review/guidelines/#sign-in-with-apple) ~~~ RL_Quine Intentionally breaking the rules and filing a lawsuit against them with a marketing campaign isn't as if apple just decided they "didn't like" Epic. ~~~ modeless Epic alleges that Apple is breaking the law, and breaking the App Store rules was a pretty much required step to establish standing to sue. Is Apple above the legal system, such that they should be able to destroy businesses that dare to challenge them in court, regardless of the merits of their claims and before they are even heard? ~~~ minhazm Your comment makes it sound it sound like Apple is breaking the law. Epic could have brought on this lawsuit while still complying with the App Store rules, in fact the judge suggested they do that so their users aren't impacted. They wouldn't be getting kicked off right now and the Sign-in with Apple button wouldn't be getting disabled. They chose to break the app store rules, which they did agreed to, AND they also decided to sue Apple. They could revert their app right now and Apple would restore their account and they could still continue their lawsuit. Epic is just weaponizing their user base in their fight against Apple. ~~~ henryfjordan > Your comment makes it sound it sound like Apple is breaking the law. Epic is alleging that Apple is breaking the law. That's the whole point of the antitrust lawsuit, to decide if they are or are not. > Epic could have brought on this lawsuit while still complying with the App > Store rules No they could not. They needed standing to sue. "Apple is doing what the contract says and we don't like it" does not establish standing. Epic needed to act as though the contract was illegal, suffer some harm, and then they have standing to sue. That's exactly what happened. You are correct that they could revert their changes and comply for the time being and Apple seems amenable to that. ~~~ nodamage Epic already had standing to sue from the $300 million in Fortnite IAP fees Apple has collected. They already "suffered harm", they did not need to do anything further in order to sue. ~~~ modeless You are fixated on this because of my imprecise use of the legal term "standing", but it's not really relevant. Standing to bring a suit that will probably get thrown out on summary judgement is not useful. What's relevant is that there is harm to consumers here and Epic needed to specifically demonstrate it to have a real chance of prevailing in an antitrust case. An allegedly illegal contract should not restrain them from doing so. ~~~ nodamage I'm not sure you actually understand the issue, it's not simply a question of terminology. Whether consumer harm exists or not is a question to be determined during the trial, not before. ~~~ modeless The question will be decided during the trial, but the evidence is gathered before. ~~~ nodamage You seem to think if Epic fails to prove consumer harm exists, that their case will not survive summary judgement? This is not true. What Epic needs to do to survive summary judgement is to present a trialable claim that _injury to competition_ has occurred. The trial itself will then determine whether the claim is accurate not. I still don't think Fortnite being in or out of the App Store makes a difference to Epic's case. If Epic's theory of Apple's behavior is correct, then they have a winning case regardless of whatever happened to Fortnite specifically. ------ drenvuk I don't get why on Hackernews anyone would ever defend Apple here. Regardless of whether they're right to do this if Epic wins their court case against them we stand to gain the most benefit. Apple's incredibly high walled garden is honestly the scariest thing for me. If I develop for windows I can simply distribute my application on my site easily. With Android I can tell people to download from F-Droid if necessary. With MacOS We're nearly at the point that Apple will tell us and users what we can and cannot install or develop for the system. iOS and iPad OS are already there. Epic caused their own pain here, sure but What other way can we actually get a semi open platform that we're not being taxed on? Why can't we as users and developers have options on iOS? I think that if an operating system allows third party apps they should be _legally_ required to allow other app stores, sideloading of programs without penalty for doing so, or both. That goes for any platform, developed at any time by anyone. I have been completely at a loss for anyone defending Apple while hoping that Epic loses their fight. The first makes sense but the second is absolutely baffling. ~~~ lolsal > Epic caused their own pain here, sure but What other way can we actually get > a semi open platform that we're not being taxed on? As an Apple user, the whole point here is that it's not an open system. I just can't get riled up over a developer not following the rules of a platform. I use Apple because the Apple ecosystem is valuable to me - the store, the SSO, the Apple ID, the UI/UX, the hardware - all of it. I don't care about Epic or any other developer that doesn't want to play nice with that ecosystem. Those kinds of developers don't have any value to me. ~~~ subsection1h Hacker News in 2020: Where "hackers" prefer closed systems and perceive no value in developers who don't want to "play nice" with closed systems. ~~~ lolsal It's a fallacy to think you can play gatekeeper regarding 'hacking' just because I (or more generally the HN audience) like and value one phone ecosystem over another. Surely you knew that already though, right? ~~~ drenvuk He's not playing gatekeeper. Hackers have generally been known to like open systems or to force closed ones open. Just look at history. You're talking about a phone ecosystem, he's talking about a closed ecosystem. ~~~ lolsal They are implying I'm not a hacker because I like the Apple ecosystem, aren't they? ~~~ drenvuk They're implying that you're not a hacker because you appear to lack the hacker's mindset. Maybe you have it for some interests but not others but from the hackers that I've seen it's usually a driver for much of their technology interaction. ------ joshstrange It's always interesting to read the comments on articles about the Epic Games situation. We can have discussions about Apple's cut or how Apple operates their store but this is such a clear cut case that I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic (or maybe it's just the anti-Apple crowd looking for any reason to crap on Apple). Epic tried to get Apple to allow a whole new store on their platform AND allow Epic to do all its own CC processing. Apple said no and Epic flipped a switch to offer CC processing for Fortnite and so Apple removed the app and disabled the account. Part of that account access included the Sign in with Apple and so that is going away as well. Epic isn't fighting for the little guy, they wanted their own store where they would take their own percentage of sales. Lastly I'll just say that while 30% might be too high I think a lot of people are overlooking the value that the App Store and the iOS platform as whole provides. I swear all of the comments about "I could host it myself and use stripe and pay way less" just reeks of "...you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem..." ~~~ bmarquez > Epic isn't fighting for the little guy Nobody is fighting for the little guy, but this is still advantageous for the consumer. Apple is even fighting with Facebook, since you are forbidden to disclose the 30% cut with consumers. ~~~ oefrha If Epic’s PC store is any indication, consumers will eventually have to face bullshit exclusives that force them to use the Epic store and largely cost the exact same. ~~~ Rebelgecko I don't see that as a downside to Epic . Some games on their storefront are exclusives and ones that are available elsewhere often have the same price?* Isn't that an argument to get rid of the App store? EVERY game there is exclusive- there's no other way to buy it for iOS. And it's a bit tautological, but games on the App Store will _never_ be able to undercut prices of competing stores on the platform because there aren't any. btw I don't totally agree with the implication. Even though many games cost the same as Steam, many of them also don't. Even if only a subset of games is cheaper on Epic, that's a win for consumers. ------ hienyimba A petty move like this clearly shows that Apple as a company has nothing valuable to offer developers. Shutting down "sign in" options shows that internally, Apple is looking for a way to hurt Epic in a manner that hurts the most but they are coming up short. Although iOS accounts for over one-thirds of Fortnite's 360million users, Epic has already made the brave decision to let that portion of revenue go and nothing Apple does will hurt them into begging Apple to let them back into their walled garden. ~~~ DonaldPShimoda I don't think this is a specific targeted thing. It just comes with the general deactivation of the Epic account. It's the same as the whole "Apple is banning all apps made with Unreal Engine!" which was a poor take on the issue. (What actually happened was Apple un-approved Epic's license, which had a cascading effect because Unreal Engine was signed under the same license, and so software dependent on Unreal Engine became no longer signed and thus was not going to be allowed on the App Store.) I'm not saying Apple's in the right here, but people keep construing it as Apple "looking for way[s] to hurt Epic" and I don't think that's quite what's going on. Epic performed a significant breach of the App Store terms in a way never tried before, and the repercussions (which are detailed in those terms!) are being enforced on a scale never seen before. But it's not like Apple's execs are scouring, looking for minute and petty ways to hurt Epic. They're just going to let the lawsuit run its course, and in the meantime enforce the terms of the agreement (willingly broken by Epic) to the fullest capacity. ~~~ mthoms >What actually happened was Apple un-approved Epic's license, which had a cascading effect because Unreal Engine was signed under the same license, and so software dependent on Unreal Engine became no longer signed and thus was not going to be allowed on the App Store. Developers using Unreal Engine certainly _do not_ sign their app with Epic's credentials. ~~~ DonaldPShimoda No, I mean the Engine is signed with Epic's credentials, so if the Unreal Engine isn't approved for App Store stuff because Epic's credentials are revoked then things dependent on it are impacted. ~~~ mthoms That’s still not how it works. Apple attempted to remove Epic from its developer program completely, meaning they wouldn’t have access to the tools to keep the engine up to date. It has nothing to do with signing. ------ ineedasername It might only end up as little more than a rounding error, but I think Apple is losing this fight with consumers: Both my kids like Fortnite, and preferred to play on hand-me-down iPads. It was their main activity on any iOS device. Now they barely touch their iPads: We already had a single Nintendo Switch that they both shared, so we let them spend the money they saved to split the cost & buy a second Switch lite so that they can both still play together. After getting used to haptic joystick controls, they much prefer them to touch controls. They both now say "I hate Apple". They didn't get that from me: I think both companies are engaged in an arms race of their own self interest, and have explained the issue to my kids as being about both companies wanting to make money. Something like this: "Apple created a store and wants people who sell items in the store to share money from their sales, which is the way stores generally work. Epic thinks that Apple & Google take way too much of that money and Epic wants to keep more of that money, though they are willing to let users get some saving too." They both still hate Apple now, and when my daughter did pick up her iPad for the first time in days, she was afraid to spend her money on a different game she wanted because she thought Apple might take it away. (She's 7... she also kicks my --s in Fortnite. I'm smart, and decades of practice mean I pickup videogames fast enough to be above average in any new game. She is better & smarter than me in every way. I work in data science, and I'm half convinced that if I taught her the basics of SQL, python, R and a few presentation-layer reporting technologies, she could do my job in an hour of her free time each day. But, you know, child labor laws.) ------ gpm Apple is doing it's absolute best to allow Epic to demonstrate irreparable harm in their motion for a preliminary injunction... This is a curious decision considering that the primary distinction between the part of the temporary restraining order the court granted (against Apple interfering with unreal engine) and the part the court denied (against Apple interfering with fortnite) was that the court thought that Epic had demonstrated irreparable harm with respect to the former and not the latter. I don't get it. (Legalities note: A temporary restraining order is basically a "preliminary preliminary injunction", the same idea, but granted earlier and only lasts until the court rules on the actual preliminary injunction) ~~~ fooey The judge ruled there is no irreparable harm because it's trivial for Epic themselves to repair the harm at any time that they themselves caused. ~~~ gpm because it was trivial for Epic to return the situation to the status quo. The court was very much not making statements about harm in general (that's just not what happens at this phase of litigation). Apple is moving the situation farther from the status quo... which strikes me as a very bad legal strategy when the ruling for them was based on the idea that maintaining the status quo did not cause irreparable harm. I expect the judge is going to have some serious questions about whether this action is in response to them violating the terms of service (status quo as I believe the judge is interpreting the phrase), or if it's about retaliating against the lawsuit [1]. Novel punitive actions using services that aren't directly related don't strike me as business as usual. [1] Unless the court rules in some way that makes the whole question moot. We shouldn't read too much into how the court ruled on the TRO. ~~~ user5994461 Considering that the court didn't find harm in banning Epic developer account, I don't see why the court would find harm in banning sign-in with Apple for Epic. It's very similar, seems like a reasonable next move. We can agree that there is a risk of being found retaliatory and it might not be the greatest strategic move as found in court 5 years later, but the risk is worthwhile. ------ bmarquez This just makes it risky for the consumer to rely on 'Sign in with Apple', especially for cross-platform applications. I found it extremely convenient especially from a privacy perspective (your name and email are hidden) but the risk I'll lose access to my accounts is too much. ~~~ prophesi I think this shows the risks of relying on _any_ social sign in. If that endpoint breaks, whether via a protocol upgrade, server downtime, or what have you, you can now no longer access any services relying on that social login. ------ tynpeddler It's astonishing the number of people in this thread that don't understand the basis of Epic's lawsuit. There's way to much of "Epic broke the ToS, therefore everything Apple decides to do in retaliation is justified". First off, Epic's whole lawsuit is that parts of Apple's ToS are illegal, and thus Apple has no grounds to enforce it as they did. Secondly, the kind of retaliation Apple has attempted to do here very much resembles anti-consumer monopolistic behavior. Apple is using their position in one market (common sign in, developer tools, hardware) to enforce their position in another (app store). Classic no-no. Obviously the final determination on these points will be made by the courts. In the meantime, if Apple isn't an anti-consumer monopoly, they sure are walking, talking and quacking like one. ------ SergeAx So, for app developers, there's no feasible strategy out of it. Apps need social login, disabling it at all is out of the question. Implementing any social login means implement login with Apple ID (and following desing guidelines), or app will not pass review. By default, login with Apple gives a bogus email not connected to anything, so there's no way to send there a random password "just in case Apple want to kick us out". And app cannot ask for real email just in case, because it will not pass the review. Check and mate. ~~~ mvanbaak The flaw in your comment is: "just in case Apple want to kick us out" If you simply decide to break the terms of your contract with them, yes, they will kick you out. But this is not 'in case Apple wants'. It's because the developer wants to break contract. ~~~ SergeAx Tell that to the author of HN reader app, which was twice rejected for not applying censorship inside his app [0] [0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652) ~~~ user5994461 That example is pure bullshit. Apple and Google have banned applications about COVID since the world was littered with apps and scams trying profit from the COVID pandemic. The author is making a news app that's promoting COVID articles and content, so it got instant banned on sight. That's super clear cut and straightforward even though he doesn't like that. You really shouldn't call that censorship. You're making a disservice to countries who experience real censorship, where people risk their life for saying innocent things. ~~~ SergeAx The app is just a viewer for this very website we are having a discussion at. And yes, there are articles on this site with COVID in text or even heading (oops, I did it again!). Banning app for showing this content among other is literally a demand for implementing China-like keyword censorship. ------ ping_pong To me Apple is only proving Epic's point. Don't you dare make Apple mad, otherwise your entire business on Apple ecosystem will be destroyed. ~~~ fooey All it's showing is that breaking contracts has repercussions. If you abuse a service, and they cut you off, you don't get to cry about them enforcing their rules. ~~~ foepys Contracts are not necessarily lawful. ------ Jaxkr I really hope this will damage Apple’s brand and platform... They enforce their TOS randomly and this will happen to smaller companies too. Hurts the consumer too. People will be locked out of their Epic accounts. ~~~ mythz This wasn't some random ToS violation, this was a willful egregious violation done with subversion & malice to undermine the App Store's revenue model. I don't fault Apple for wanting to sever all ties with bad actors. > They enforce their TOS randomly and this will happen to smaller companies > too. If their ToS is randomly enforced, which other App/Company violated the same terms as Epic which Apple chose to not enforce? I can't imagine there'll ever be a single case where a remote activated violation to sneak pass App Review would ever be allowed to remain on the App Store once identified. ~~~ cochne Don't "premium video companies" like Netflix and Amazon get a special deal? [https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/1/21203294/amazon-prime- vide...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/1/21203294/amazon-prime-video-ios-in- app-purchases-iphone-ipad-apple-tv-change) ~~~ mythz There's no "special deal" for large companies because of who they are, there are multiple exemptions [1] for which types of Apps are free, what sales are exempt and which are subject to Royalty, e.g. "Reader" Apps like Kindle, Audible, Netflix & Spotify don't pay any Royalty. They have been relaxing the categories of Apps which are exempt as previously Spotify & Netflix were subject to the 30% Royalty. [1] [https://www.apple.com/ios/app-store/principles- practices/#:~...](https://www.apple.com/ios/app-store/principles- practices/#:~:text=These%20are%20apps%20where%20users%20exclusively) ------ newbie578 Again so many people defending Apple here just because they love their Macs... This just shows how Apple has a "deity" like status in the community, fanboys here are willing to die defending Apple and their arbitrary "rules". Just dare to imagine if tomorrow Microsoft came out and said Steam broke ToS and starting September 11 all accounts signed-up over outlook.com will be disabled. There would be riots on the streets and buildings burning, Nadella would give a resignation within a week. Yet for Apple, the rules don't apply (ironically). Tim Cook blatantly commits perjury in front of Congress and no one bats an eye, yet people are still willing to trash Gates how "arrogant" he was to Congress 20 years ago. The only true hope is for EU step in and completely revamp the App Store ------ GiorgioG As an iPhone X owner/user I'm less and less inclined to go with Apple for my next phone. Apple & Google have a duopoly on mobile phone OSes. It's been how many years that they've been taking a 30% cut? You mean they haven't optimized/streamlined the App Store processes in what 10 years? At least Google is not the only Android handset game in town and you can still sideload apps. ------ snyp Epic here is not telling the truth. Apple has revoked their developer license which revoked the Sign In with Apple certificates. Apple probably sent them a courtesy notice about it but epic is just spinning it as if Apple is disabling their Sign In with Apple capabilities. This just looks bad on Epic. ~~~ user5994461 This here, should be the top comment. The court already validated that Apple disabling Epic account was okay. ------ floatingatoll This should, at worst, only affect users who hide their email address from Epic and use the Apple relay service. Users who share their email address with Epic would be able to simply continue using it, with a reset password if necessary. Apple also has the option to continue allowing Epic to deliver password reset emails to private relay email addresses, using their pre-11th DKIM/SPF settings, so that users can continue to reset their account passwords by email and login and change their email address. Cynically, I assume that if Apple does continue relaying password resets, Epic would change their systems in some way that intentionally breaks that somehow, in order to create further public pressure on Apple. ------ zxcvbn4038 There we go! I’ve been saying forever that social logins are a bad idea for just this reason. What do you do when someone separates you from your users with no appeal and no recourse? In this place you can just shrug it off because nobody uses Apple sign-in anyway (look bellow for the one guy who does’s outrage). But imagine if Google or Facebook did this? The couple extra people you picked up by not making them create a new account wouldn’t be worth losing all your users or customers that sign in with either behemoth. Prediction: future iOS release disables Fortnite app from running. ------ iJohnDoe Not sure if this has been mentioned in other threads yet - The Fortnite iOS app is critical even if you don’t play Fortnite on iOS. The app has the team voice feature so you can talk to teammates while playing Fortnite. Everyone in your party can be playing on different devices (Xbox, PS4, etc.). If you open the iOS app then you can transfer the party voice to an iPhone. The sound is really clear and you can use your headphones or AirPods to talk and listen. I’m sure some will be pissed if they lost access to that. If you deleted the app or bought a new iOS device, can you still install Fortnite from previous purchases? ------ jbverschoor Yeah.. that's really uncool. So I'm all pro-Apple for the whole Epic thing, but by this one action, I will refuse to use sign in with Apple for good. They're basically hijacking users ~~~ mvanbaak No, they are not. Epic broke the contract, they were warned, they laughed it off and got their apple developer account terminated. There is no 'login with apple' when the developer account implementing it is terminated. It's one of the services Epic knew was going to be impacted. If anyone is hijacking users, it's Epic. ~~~ kinkrtyavimoodh This is like the mafia asking me to pay up or else they will kidnap my children, and when I refuse to pay up and my children get kidnapped, you tell me "Well this was one of the things you knew was going to happen". If the demands are unfair or extortionate I don't blame people for not capitulating to them. This the same idea that forms the basis of civil disobedience. ~~~ user5994461 I don't think it's fair to compare the case to child abduction. Epic can continue to serve Fortnite just fine through the app store while the case goes though court. There is nobody being kidnapped and murdered here. ~~~ jbverschoor What if they actually can’t? For example if trump kicks out fortnite? I’m sure there have been some incidents, maybe murder, related to fortnite. ------ londons_explore Epic can't currently send updates for any of their games. I'd guess that by disabling 'Sign in with apple', those games will now throw errors and stop working. And it'll look like Epics fault. It's all a big game of optics and PR.... ------ sneak I think Apple’s brain drain over the last decade is finally starting to show. This undermines their entire user-facing SSO strategy with anyone paying attention. (The dev-facing “implement our SSO or you can’t be on the iPhone” isn’t really a “strategy” per se.) Of course apps will have to support it to be in the App Store, but this means that any user paying attention now knows that their accounts/logins for PAID SERVICES are potentially at the mercy of Apple’s control crusade battles. Dangerous precedent. ~~~ threeseed > I really hope this will damage Apple’s brand and platform This is a really ignorant and pretty crazy comment. Apple is this year moving to their own silicon and likely next year we will see the fruits of the large number of AR/VR acquisitions. Seems to me like you would need a lot of specialist talent to do both. ~~~ sneak Wrong thread? That quote isn’t me. ------ snyp I don’t think what epic says here is entirely true. Apple said that they were going to remove / revoke Epic’S developer account which would probably revoke the certificates for Sign In with Apple as a result Apple would have emailed them about it. I think epic is just spinning it to suit their narrative. You wouldn’t want apps on the App Store with expired certificates to be able to use login and registration systems. ------ cletus So this showdown between Epic and Apple is really interesting. My thoughts: 1\. Epic had to know Apple would go nuclear. If they didn't, they're completely incompetent. Let's assume that's not the case. So Epic was itching for a fight. Maybe they were delusional about Fortnite's power here? 2\. Apple is going nuclear here. The message is that Apple wants to crush this. This is Apple making an example of Epic. It looks like Apple is prepared for this fight and doesn't want it to gain traction; 3\. Personally I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense. It's just for the likes of Epic, Amazon or Netflix it doesn't as they're large enough to have their own so 30% is a huge fee for those companies and ultimately untenable; 4\. Apple's monopoly will end at some point. I have to believe that even Apple knows that. So it's just a question of time and Apple doesn't want it to be now; 5\. I don't think the solution is for anyone to be able to have payment infrastructure. That kind of Wild West is no good for anyone. It's just a question of what the compromise looks like; I really do see this as the dying days of the Apple and Google app ecosystems. ~~~ mikestew _I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense._ Considering that one can get payment processing for a tenth of Apple's fee, I consider Apple's 30% to be outright usurious. I would be a little more forgiving if that same fee bought some discovery in the App Store, but no. Or maybe faster app reviews. Okay, finally; after how many years of multiple week waits? ~~~ wvenable Apple makes $500 million a year on app store search ads (they expected to make $2 billion this year). It's crazy that you pay 30% of every purchase to be listed in a store -- but that means nothing -- you still have to pay to be visible. You have people in this thread that are _shocked_ anyone would side with Epic because they obviously broke the agreement but on the other you have people _amazed_ that you can justify paying hundreds of dollars in markup per device, then be charged 30% for any software, and then developers still have to pay annually for access and pay for visibility. And even attempting to tell users cheaper ways to pay isn't allowed. It's like people desperately want to chuck all their income at Apple like dollars to a stripper. ------ mywittyname This is exactly why I never use OAuth for any account unless it's a throw away account. I always assumed that it would be Google who first decides to push around their weight by removing login capabilities. Can you sign into your account using an id and password? ------ type0 Both users and developers should learn that they can not trust Apple with anything, not their data, not their income, nothing. It's the most abhorrent consumer tech company and should receive much more public shaming. ------ mlazos I honestly don’t think Apple should be investigated for antitrust and I don’t think they can be considered a monopoly. There are plenty of choices in the gaming space, and there are a lot of android competitors to the App Store. I really don’t think epic should have any standing here. They’re just mad about Apple’s 30% cut. Apple charges a premium to people to be in their ecosystem and they do it anyway. This isn’t a monopoly by any definition. I do think removing Sign In with Apple is a bad look, but Epic is in over their head here, they really shouldn’t be suing Apple. ------ grwthckrmstr The comments and discussions are fascinating to observe. Here's the voices you can hear loudest and my thoughts on those. > Epic broke Apple's ToS Just because terms have been set, does not mean they are right or that they shouldn't be challenged. Remember, these terms were arbitrary when they were first set, why defend them as if it's written in the constitution? > But Epic is a big greedy corp that only cares about its own profits Yeah but Epic's win extends as a win to every small player in the ecosystem. In terms of size, Apple is a trillion-dollar company whereas Epic is multi billion-dollar company. The only people who can challenge Apple are companies like Epic, and not the small players and indie app & game developers. > Apple's reactionary behaviour is just proving Epic's case I know right! But that's the whole point that Epic started this saga with. Actually, it started before. Earlier this year HEY/Basecamp guys faced the same issue. Obviously they created a huge uproar, figured a path that works for them, and then shut up completely (instead of continuing the fight, as they promised they would). Epic here is fighting to make a change that will benefit everyone. > But I'm an Apple user because I like the closed ecosystem I get it, you want a platform to make decisions for you. In which case, you can continue using the App Store to get your dose of apps and games. But why does your indecision stand in the way of having alternative app stores where people who want to have a choice, get to make that choice. > But Apple isn't a monopoly There's 2 major phone OSes in the world. If you're making any kind of mobile game or mobile application, you HAVE to be on either or both mobile OSes. iOS has 60% of US market share, which means it IS a monopoly. Apple exclusively owns iOS. Apple is a monopoly. __Closing thoughts __ In the end, I feel that people who don 't understand the stand Epic is taking are people who have never done something of their own and failed or faced undue stress on their venture due to a large gatekeeper who stamps on whoever it pleases. I feel the people defending Apple here NEED to defend Apple to satisfy their internal narrative, which would reflect in their life's pursuit to be a 1 in 10,000 employee of a billion-dollar company. I'm airing the dirty laundry in the hopes that everyone gains empathy and perspective. ------ poorman How is this not Anti-Competitive behavior? "If you go up against us, we will take away your users and thus your source of income." Seems cut and dry to me. ~~~ m3kw9 “Go against” meaning purposely breaking a TOS and then suing Apple. Epic wanted this so the crowd can call Apple the bad guy when they react to the terms. ------ paulsmal Would be nice if Epic could join Valve in making Linux a better platform for games. ~~~ DivisionSol Epic has no interest in doing things that are for the good of average gamer. Just trying to slice of various pieces of pies, and Linux gaming is too small to care. ------ extremeMath This is why you should avoid Apple entirely. They can do this to you, your company, your apps. I'm a big fan of FOSS as much as possible. ~~~ dpc_pw If you don't own your platform, the platform owns you. ------ cryptica Games are often very low margin products, so it makes completely sense that Apple's one-size-fits all 30% fee wouldn't be suitable for a lot of companies. What doesn't make sense is how Apple got away with it for so long. The ad '1984' by Apple has become the biggest, most hypocritical piece of propaganda every created. ~~~ mvanbaak > Games are often very low margin products Yeah, so, did you check how much Epic earns with fortnite? I wont call this 'low margin' at all. ~~~ cryptica Profit margin is about the percentage they make after costs have been factored in. Their profit margin is indeed low; 12% of the revenue... compared to Apple who takes 30%. See [https://gamerant.com/epic-games-store-revenue-split- explaine...](https://gamerant.com/epic-games-store-revenue-split- explained/#:~:text=Sweeney%20also%20said%20that%20Epic,payment%20processing%2C%20and%20customer%20service). So my point is absolutely valid and it is shocking that Apple makes almost 3 times more money from Fortnight than Epic makes. Imagine spending years building an app and then someone else ends up making 3 times more money from it than you do... ~~~ mvanbaak The 30% apple (and all other stores) “take” are not pure profits. They offer a lot of services that cost them money. So no, apple is not making 3 times as much. ~~~ cryptica Apple's offering is a lot simpler and a lot more hands-off. I doubt their costs are very high and if they are, they're probably wasting the money because I can't see what's so complex about the Apple App store... And I'm a developer so I know that operating at that scale comes with challenges but it really doesn't compare to the challenges which the creators of Fortnight must face on a daily basis. ------ marcosscriven The thing I find fascinating is how people come together in groups to form companies. And then the behaviour of those people is no longer assigned to them, but the company. Apple does this, Epic does that. But both are made of individuals. All those individuals have choices. Some of those individuals are unspeakably greedy. ------ bokohut So many entrepreneurs "drinking the kool aid" building their great idea that depends on others platforms of which on the surface appears warm and receptive however welcome to the real world which is cold and shunning. If you do not own your hardware and software systems your weakest links are the 3rd party providers which do not even know your name. Interesting again to see that "fees" started the core battle fight. Visa and MasterCard, along with other brands, are acutely aware of the coming payments swing and continue on buying sprees to protect their toll road. Whether it be crypto, RTP, FedNow or remains to be credit card is yet to be known however these events and more will continue to push businesses to bring payments in house cutting out more and more middlemen. This is long overdue. ------ zxcb1 Just installed Linux on my Mac; it felt like freedom. ~~~ dazhbog Had alot of issues with power when i last tried Linux on a mac air.. Something with alot of interrupts firing and the linux kernel was using more power as a result. Thinking of wiping macos and putting windows pro only and using wsl or something. If anyone runs linux/win on mac hardware smoothly I want to know more details. ~~~ alrs Sell your old mac and buy five comparable used Thinkpads? ------ ajhurliman Folks are always talking about whether tech companies are monopolies or not, and I just don't think we're using the right vocabulary. Why not just create a new legal definition of a platform and create regulations that rein in the companies that fit that description? Namely, self-preference on the platform (Google, Amazon), false information (Facebook, Twitter), transparency of the source of ads, or in Apple's case usurious rates. I imagine if platforms came with some regulations, all those folks clambering to "be the Uber of X" would sound about as cool as being a wastewater treatment plant, or a fire station. ------ g42gregory I would like to know what happened to the anti-trust laws and their enforcement? ------ dpc_pw Apple is just returning to its roots. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiAgrrwL_mk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiAgrrwL_mk) I know, I'm old. ------ nojvek At this point if people really think Apple is a bully and want to do something out it, pull your apps out of App Store. Better yet do an over the air update letting the users know how much of a bully Apple is. If a significant % of apps protest, then Apple has to bend down. Apple isn’t with much if they don’t have the developer and customer mindshare. Microsoft lost the mobile market because they couldn’t make a viable AppStore. Those Nokia phones were fantastic but the apps were very subpar. ------ pmarreck Of the many things I never counted on happening this year that happened anyway, becoming a Fortnite fan was certainly near the top ------ ineedasername Does this prevent users from accessing their existing account/loot/vbucks etc through Epic directly? ------ iainctduncan My impression so far is that Epic is playing a long game. And playing it perfectly. God I hope so. ------ lexusgx My gut reaction: it is a win to put the brakes on a virtual currency shop disguised as a video game. Perhaps this is something that needs legislative action. Addictive behaviors that turn people into paypigs for a minimally productive business are harmful. ~~~ kinkrtyavimoodh I don't care about Epic but I welcome this lawsuit. If they win, it will significantly improve the lives of millions of developers and users. ------ speedgoose As an user, it means that I must not use Sign in with Apple. ------ atarian All this trouble just to save 30% on a pair of digital trousers. ------ lawlessone The bootlicking comments on that page.. ------ newobj Now that's what I call a slapfight ------ mas3god I dont like apple, but they should be allowed to do what they want with their platform. Nobody's forcing us to buy macs & iPhones. ------ shepting This is bad. ------ troughway Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: A little knowledge portal I've been building - tuvalie https://tuvalie.com/fae/?q=Albert%20Einstein ====== eric001 Regarding the UI, personally, I would shrink things down a notch. It feels a bit "in your face" right now, if that makes sense. Besides that - love it! Edit: even just changing font-size from 14pt to 11pt is much better imho. ~~~ tuvalie Hi, eric. Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind me asking, do you think it feels that way because of the color choices, spacing, order of content, or something else? The colors are tied to specific themes, which can be changed by registered users -- but I can still tweak the default theme if it would improve things. ~~~ s_kilk (not eric, but had the same thought) Everything just feels way oversized, in a Fisher-Price kind of way. The font, the colors and "chunky"-ness of the UI. The full-width content-area doesn't help either. The whole page gets right up in your face and shouts the content at you. Concrete suggestions: \- dial down the font size \- put some blank space in the left-right marigns of the page (responsive if possible). \- maybe choose a more passive shade of blue for the background. EDIT: here's an example comparing your page with wikipedia [http://recordit.co/Za7NuT8Hy7](http://recordit.co/Za7NuT8Hy7) ~~~ tuvalie Thank you! I'm going to work through those suggestions later. Do you mind if I ask for your feedback afterwards? ~~~ s_kilk Sure, go for it :) ~~~ tuvalie I made a couple of small tweaks. If you have a moment and are willing to take a look, I'd love to hear your thoughts! (You may need to perform a hard reload in your browser.) ------ tuvalie Hey folks, I just wanted to apologize. I got an influx of several thousand views because of this post and exceeded some API usage limits, so the web and some of the image results were down for a bit. They're back up now, but if they exceed the limits again, they'll have to remain down for a bit (financial limitations :S). ------ xjay I don't have a comment on the work itself, but like most sites, it has no awareness of line length, and it's therefore painful to parse the information without resizing the window. Both HN, and the linked website, could benefit greatly in readability by simply limiting line-length to ~32em for textual information. It's strange that a browser, designed for human use, has no notion of humans in that regard. ~~~ tuvalie Hi, xjay. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I'll experiment with it later on today. If you don't mind me asking, do you have a reference site I can look at that you think really shines in terms of readability? ~~~ xjay Sure! Matthew Butterick opened my eyes on the world of typography. He has a site with tips: [http://practicaltypography.com/](http://practicaltypography.com/) He also has a very good talk called "Typography for Docs": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J6HuvosP0s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J6HuvosP0s) ~~~ tuvalie Those are perfect, thanks! After I'm doing fiddling with things later, do you mind if I solicit your feedback? ------ gkya Nice work, compliments. I also like the UI, no clutter or heavy JS. But I suggest you add a little noscript message saying this only functions with it enabled. ~~~ tuvalie That's a great idea, thank you. A little ashamed I overlooked it, actually :/ It'll be thrown in with my other to-do's for the day. ~~~ gkya No problem, even the no-js users overlook it, including myself... ~~~ tuvalie Hi, gkya. The noscript element has been added. Based on some other feedback I've received here, I also reduced the font size and line width for encyclopedic information display. (It may require a hard reload to notice the difference.) Since you had a positive impression of the original design, it'd be good to hear that it hasn't changed with the update. And thanks again! ~~~ gkya Checked it, yes, I see the noscript message. I rather like a more plain style for web pages that is based on text rather than icons, but it is personal preference. The font size is better, and it zooms in and out nicely (I zoom out on it for easier reading). If I would change one thing, that'd be to use a serif for some longer text. You're welcome, and kudos again. ------ mark_l_watson Nicely done! I especially like the timeline. Most of the data for the search results I tried are available via DBPedia and other sources and you did a great job tying it all together. BTW, re: UI: I found it easy to use, and it looked nice, on the iPad Pro I am using right now. It is kind of people here to offer suggestions for improving the UI, but my suggestion is to leave the UI as is and keep working on the back end stuff ~~~ tuvalie Thanks for the kind words! You might have seen the UI after I just pushed a small improvement through (it was right around the time of your comment), so it may have been less offensive for your particular viewing! (If it doesn't change when you do a hard reload, you saw the updated version.) Hopefully that addresses some of the issues, but I agree that focusing on the core service is more important in the long run. ------ solveforall Great work! The UI is a bit old school -- reminds me of Windows 3.1 crossed with some wireframe creation program, but it is not hard to use. But I especially like the timeline and encyclopedic information. Since I run a search engine myself (solveforall.com), I would like to ask you the sources of the encylopedic information, timeline, and quotes. The result that doesn't seem to add much value is the NELL project one, which lists the type hierarchy. Maybe that could just be summarized to "Albert Einstien is a male scientist" ... Of course autocomplete would be nice as well as more tolerant input acceptance. I don't get the finder ... do you plan that people will register, then you can find other users that way? This is not a general search for someone by email, right? That would be cool... I am looking forward to using your API as well! Do the endpoints on [https://tuvalie.com/?do=developers](https://tuvalie.com/?do=developers) work? Anyway, cool stuff. If you want to discuss further with me, contact me at jctsay AT aim.com. ~~~ tuvalie Thanks for the feedback! What's being demonstrated here is one part of one feature of a larger project I've been working on over the last several years. I've built a lot of custom parsers that continuously mine/merge facts from various sources. (I think it's sitting at around 215 million atomic facts, right now, outside of what it can dynamically calculate.) The APIs work (theoretically), but they're very rough. Showing this project off is very new to me! ~~~ solveforall 215 million facts, that's impressive! Anyway, congratulations on shipping. If you ever want to collaborate on search, please let me know. ~~~ tuvalie I'd love to find ways to collaborate with anyone who's interested :) I also forgot to mention that you can download an export of (most) of the timeline events from [http://endlessorigins.com/](http://endlessorigins.com/) \-- I update it from time to time with new events, too. To my knowledge, it's the largest freely available structured data set of historic human events. Could that be useful to you? ~~~ solveforall That looks great, I am going to look into this at some point. Thanks a lot for the link and all your hard work. ------ mmanfrin Man, this is almost exactly a project I had envisioned years ago. I was going over a list of terms I needed to know for a midterm in school, and thought it would be neat if I could just plunk in a list of comma-separated terms and have it fetch definitions, wiki blurbs, images, and whatever else it could find in to cards for each term. ~~~ tuvalie Funny you should mention that! For registered users, comparisons across concepts are an actual feature. The service tries to summarize on a per attribute, cross-entity basis what makes each item different or similar. It's pretty computationally-expensive, though, so I didn't want to slow down this demo by showing that off. I can post a couple of screenshots of it in action if there's any interest? ------ jrumbut This is so cool, it shows you're a real developer's developer, if you get what I mean! One thing that confused me a little at first, UI wise, is the scroll bars on the page Web Results and Image Results panels. I was just scanning pages and thought the page was hanging for some reason while using my mouse wheel. ~~~ tuvalie Thank you! I can honestly say that comment put a smile on my face. As far as the scroll bars go, I just didn't want to take up too much screen real estate for those individual sections. (So that people who want to spend time with them can, but those who don't can skip over them a bit quicker.) Do you think there's a better way to handle that? I'm very open to suggestions for just about anything! ~~~ jrumbut Sorry this is a little bit delayed! It's hard to see when you get replies here :) My feeling is to either make liberal use of "Click to expand" or to just let users scroll the whole page vertically. I think we've become used to long, vertical content elements. ------ tuvalie Thanks for anyone who checks this out. I'd like to release a free API soon with most of the data the portal contains. That's one of my big objectives since hearing about Freebase shutting down. At any rate, all thoughts and feedback are greatly appreciated! ~~~ tokenizerrr What would be really awesome (and probably insanely difficult to make) is an API which does something similar to what Google does when you define: stuff. It usually comes from a dictionary, but sometimes it has more interesting sources. I'd love to put something like that in an IRC bot. ~~~ tuvalie This is even more experimental than the main service, itself, but does something like this meet your needs (genuinely curious)? [https://tuvalie.com/fae/?q=Albert%20Einstein&api](https://tuvalie.com/fae/?q=Albert%20Einstein&api) ~~~ tokenizerrr While that is useful, it wouldn't meet these particular needs. What I'd want is a single piece of text, with maybe a link, giving a best-effort description/explanation of the subject. So when specifying "Albert Einstein" Google gives: > Albert Einstein. BrE. (1879-1955) a physicist, born in Germany, who was > possibly the greatest scientist of the 20th century. In 1905 he published > his theory of relativity. This led to the equation giving the relationship > between mass and energy, E=mc2, which is the basis of atomic energy. But when specifying "hubbub" Google gives: > a chaotic din caused by a crowd of people. "a hubbub of laughter and > shouting" Stuff like that, where it (somehow) automatically determines which piece of information is most relevant. Again, I don't think this is really doable without having as much search data as Google does. ------ karmacondon Completely subjective, but I'm very drawn to the timeline. I would be interested in a site that was organized entirely around that, with the videos and pictures displayed chronologically and by importance. ~~~ tuvalie I'm a big fan of the timeline, myself! I actually regularly export some of the timeline data to a TSV file for others to be able to use in their own projects. [http://endlessorigins.com/](http://endlessorigins.com/) \-- I'd love to know what kind of uses you can find for it! ------ techaddict009 Information looks good. Design looks a bit old doesnt affect anyway but I would recommend updating it. SEO of the site is worse. What is the plan for revenue? contextual advertisement? Donation? Or something else? I would love to collaborate and help in UI/UX and SEO. Ping me if you wish to connect: [email protected] Recent work: oizom.com, metavideos.com ~~~ tuvalie Hi. Thanks for the feedback. If I can help it, I don't want any advertising to touch the knowledge functions of the site. It's part of a larger project that offers subscription services and sponsorships for interest communities, so all of this is just one piece to that puzzle. Donations would be wonderful, but I don't really see getting a lot of them. If nothing else, I still love building this stuff. I've been at it for several years and my interest level hasn't diminished at all, so I have that going for me! ------ DrScump Registration rejects email addresses with certain characters ("+" at least) Also, I think it's a bad idea to offer common financial codes as recovery codes for your site (SSN, mother's maiden name, etc.) ~~~ tuvalie Thank you, DrScump. Both of these have been fixed. Users will be warned to change their security question if they're using an old, insecure question type, and no one will be able to select those questions beginning immediately. I was using a standard list of security questions, but I absolutely see the value of avoiding such info. ------ uptownhr Invitation code? Not liking my email address for some reason. ~~~ tuvalie Hey, if you're willing, could you shoot me an e-mail from the address it doesn't like? You can reach me at hello @ the domain of the site. That's the first I've heard of the issue, and I'd like to make sure it gets fixed. (And thanks!) ------ uptownhr Invitation code?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: Wox – an open source launcher for windows inspired by Alfred and Launchy - ishu3101 https://www.getwox.com/ ====== warunsl I have been using this for a while. It is good. It is not a replacement to GNOME Do yet (I am not sure if plugins bridge the gap) but I have found that the application search is much faster compared to the Windows 7 Start Menu. If the dev is here I have a question/bug report: Every time I reboot my machine, there is a error dialog (with a huge stack trace) that I have to dismiss. I see from the stack trace that it complains about not finding certain applications. I have realized that these applications were on my system when I first installed Wox, but since uninstalled. Thanks for making this utility though. Makes my life on Windows 7 a bit easier. ~~~ ishu3101 Please make sure you are using the latest build. You can download the latest build from [https://ci.appveyor.com/project/qianlifeng/wox/history](https://ci.appveyor.com/project/qianlifeng/wox/history) (top green build -> artifacts -> release-binary.zip). If you still get the error could you please report the issue here: [https://github.com/Wox-launcher/Wox/issues/](https://github.com/Wox- launcher/Wox/issues/) ------ KirinDave I'm willing to try this, and it would have been really nice to have during the Win8/7 days but... What purpose does it serve in Windows 10? Every feature and voice recognition seems to be part of the basic Win10 search (although you need to tweak it a bit to get local content search mixed in with app launches; I usually turn that off on spotlight). Part of the reason I really like Win10 is that it has something that has parity with these older tools. Indeed, Win10 is rightfully referred to as a search-driven OS. Most help articles refer to searching from the top level box into other apps, that can trivially publish search targets. ------ torgoguys Docs say the keyboard shortcuts for this is alt+space. Does this mean that if I install this, I can no longer access the standard alt+space windows menu to minimize, resize, etc? If so, can the shortcut for Wox be changed? I've used the standard windows menu since at least windows 3.0. ~~~ ishu3101 Yes, you can change the keyboard shortcut to whatever you like. ------ herbst When i read launcher i thought i am going to see a a Windows Environment replacement. Damn Android terminology. Anyway, i would definitly try that when i would have Windows. It is one of the typical missing features that let me wonder how windows people can even talk about productivity. Kudos. ------ daviross Very cool! I've been hoping something like this would get active development again, since Launchy basically died. Alfred's been pretty good Mac-side. Shame that Synapse & near as I last saw Gnome Do seem to have also died off Linux-side. It's a useful product space. ~~~ Sir_Cmpwn Check out dmenu for Linux. [http://tools.suckless.org/dmenu/](http://tools.suckless.org/dmenu/) Pipe a list of things into it, it'll graphically prompt the user for a specific thing, and then it'll print that thing to stdout. I use it to switch to named workspaces and to launch programs. ~~~ iheartmemcache The whole suckless organization is an absolutely fantastic entity. I'm not even sure who they are (over the course of nearly 20 years I've stumbled across most members of the major -nix subset-communities), but suckless's dedication to the UNIX "do one thing and do it right" ideal is so steadfast it blows my mind. Anyways, yeah, dmenu and dwm just _got it right_. (Though I must admit I flirt with wmii these days). Every -nix'er owes it to him/herself to put 'exec dwm' into their .xinitrc for a few months. This analogy won't do it justice - but - the way your mind expands shifting over is comparable to the development mentality shift one gets when moving from procedural C to LISP or Smalltalk. ------ mavromatis Nice idea but can't install most plugins. The installation by wpm or manual complete succesfully yet the plugin is not installed. Example: Switcheroo for Wox; Wox.Plugin.SimpleClock. ------ blainesch Open source, but no github/bitbucket links on the project or the plugins? This makes any type of contributing very limiting. ~~~ disposition2 Github link is front-center ("Star") on the initial page ([https://github.com/qianlifeng/wox](https://github.com/qianlifeng/wox)) ------ spacey I will give it a try, looks like a good alternative to Launchy. The online readme contains some broken images. ~~~ ishu3101 Could you please provide the link to the broken images so that it can be fixed? Thanks ------ ivanyu I wanted such a thing so badly that started to write it myself. Thanks!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Canadian robot melds brain surgery, rocket science (2007) - neurotech1 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-surgery-robotics-idUSN1742478220070417 ====== neurotech1 The recent news of Simone Giertz[0] (Queen of _something_ robots) diagnosed with a brain tumor[1] made me wonder about neurosurgical robots. neuroArm[2] is litterally a scaled down Canadarm[3] used on the space shuttle and now ISS. [0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Giertz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Giertz) [1] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16959754](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16959754) [2] [https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/benefits...](https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/benefits/neuro_Arm.html) [3] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeuroArm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeuroArm)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Man Who Saved Southwest Airlines with a '10-Minute' Idea - ghosh http://www.npr.org/2015/06/28/418147961/the-man-who-saved-southwest-airlines-with-a-10-minute-idea ====== Roritharr A great example for lead bullets: [http://www.bhorowitz.com/lead_bullets](http://www.bhorowitz.com/lead_bullets) ~~~ plq > The issue with their ideas was that we weren’t facing a market problem. The > customers were buying; they just weren’t buying our product. This was not a > time to pivot. A true gem, it's very important to make this distinction. ------ rpedela I recommend reading Great by Choice [1] which talks more about Southwest Airlines and what makes them great. The book is about "10X companies" and what they have in common, but also what they do differently from their competitors. For example, Southwest Airlines copied PSA's business model verbatim but PSA [2] went out of business. The book talks about why. The main reason I like the book and others in the series [1] is that it is like reading a really long research paper about what makes great companies great with entertaining anecdotes sprinkled in. 1\. [http://www.jimcollins.com/books.html](http://www.jimcollins.com/books.html) 2\. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines) ~~~ moheeb I don't consider Southwest Airlines great at all. They are my least favorite airline to fly. I've experienced some pretty terrible customer service from them. I feel their boarding routine is the worst in the business. What, in your opinion, makes them "great"? ~~~ baakss From an article attached to the book: "From an initial list of 20,400 companies, we sifted through 11 layers of cuts to identify cases that met all our tests (our study era ran through 2002). Only seven did. We labeled our high-performing study cases with the moniker "10X" because they didn't merely get by or just become successful. They truly thrived. Every 10X case beat its industry index by at least 10 times. Consider one 10X case, Southwest Airlines (LUV). Just think of everything that slammed the airline industry from 1972 to 2002: Fuel shocks. Deregulation. Labor strife. Air-traffic controller strikes. Crippling recessions. Interest rate spikes. Hijackings. Bankruptcy after bankruptcy after bankruptcy. And in 2001, the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. And yet if you'd invested $10,000 in Southwest Airlines on Dec. 31, 1972 (when it was just a tiny little outfit with three airplanes, barely reaching breakeven and besieged by larger airlines out to kill the fledgling), your $10,000 would have grown to nearly $12 million by the end of 2002, a return 63 times better than the general stock market. These are impressive results by any measure, but they're astonishing when you take into account the roiling storms, destabilizing shocks, and chronic uncertainty of Southwest's environment. Meanwhile, Southwest's direct comparison, Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA), flailed and was rendered irrelevant, despite having the same business model in the same industry with the same opportunity to become great." Src: [http://www.jimcollins.com/books/great-by- choice.html](http://www.jimcollins.com/books/great-by-choice.html) ------ geon > "You guys are either going to turn these airplanes in 10 minutes or I'm > going to fire every single one of you — and I'm going to hire a whole new > crew that's willing to work and turn these airplanes in 10 minutes." Sounds like a great way to fail spectacularly. If it _was_ impossible, it wasn't going to magically work just because everyone was too afraid to tell him. ~~~ technofiend It worked in this instance. Sometimes your boss is just a tool and you suffer the consequences. I specifically advised my boss not to sell a certain hardware and software combination because it was problematic. In fact eventually the vendor dropped all support. But one of our sales guys got dollar signs in his eyes and sold it anyway to a customer of ours. Sure enough I was regularly sent out to "do something" to fix it because the systems kept crashing. Finally my boss gave me one of those "if you don't fix it today, don't bother coming back to work tomorrow" ultimatums. What exactly am I supposed to do? Rewrite the network driver for this LAN card myself? That was my last day on the job. I heard from a friend the company had to rip the entire network out and give a new one free to customer after he threatened to sue. I never did hear if the sales guy had to pay for it. ~~~ djrogers >I never did hear if the sales guy had to pay for it. Yeah - that's not on the salesperson. The basic 'social contract' when someone takes a sales job is that the product the company sells isn't a fraudulently useless piece of crap. The salesperson didn't design, spec, or build the hardware. He didn't architect or write the drivers, he didn't QA the product, and he damn sure didn't assume the company would sell something that didn't/couldn't work. Where the hell was your QA manager? Your product manager? Those are the folks that should be responsible for this - not the salesperson. ~~~ JadeNB > Yeah - that's not on the salesperson. The basic 'social contract' when > someone takes a sales job is that the product the company sells isn't a > fraudulently useless piece of crap. It is not unambiguous, but I got the impression from this paragraph that the salesperson sold it _despite_ directives to the contrary, which surely _is_ on him or her: > I specifically advised my boss not to sell a certain hardware and software > combination because it was problematic. In fact eventually the vendor > dropped all support. But one of our sales guys got dollar signs in his eyes > and sold it anyway to a customer of ours. ~~~ djrogers Sales teams can't sell anything that operations and product management don't approve. A customer can send in a PO for anything, but the company has to accept it... ~~~ technofiend I explained in my reply if you'd like a better explanation. ------ JoshTriplett Interesting. I never knew about this, and it certainly isn't true of Southwest today. These days they're the cattle-car of airlines, with their lack of assigned seating. I found this bit particularly interesting, though: > Today, the task of getting in and out of the gate in 10 minutes is > impossible — but back then, says reporter Terry Maxon, the 10-Minute Turn > saved the airline. What makes it so impossible? Airport security has gotten far worse, but that's long before the gate. _At_ the gate, what makes this less possible than it was back then? ~~~ PMan74 > with their lack of assigned seating. I'm pretty sure unassigned seating has been proven to be the fastest way to load an aircraft in practice. > what makes this less possible than it was back then? I'm not sure, I'd guess there are controls in place now that were not in place then e.g. passenger manifest reconciliation for security, ID checks, etc. Ryanair (European Southwest essentially) target 25 minutes. If there were a way to do if faster I think they'd have found it. ~~~ tomarr > I'm pretty sure unassigned seating has been proven to be the fastest way to > load an aircraft in practice. I would disagree with this. My experience is of low-cost operators in Europe (Ryanair, Easyjet, Wizz etc.), and I believe their experiences have been the opposite. Whilst most of the carriers used to operate on an unassigned seating basis, with fees for reserved seating, now seating is 'randomly' assigned at online check-in (although if possible groups are sat together). You can still pay for reserved seating but the benefit is obviously a lot less now. My anecdotal evidence is that this has massively quickened the boarding process. Before, there would be delays waiting for people to sort out their seating and luggage arrangements (families especially), now it is much less of an issue and turnaround times are quicker. It's also possible that the massive increase in people taking only hand- luggage in recent years has been a factor, but I'm not sure. ~~~ ghshephard The various controlled studies I've seen, including the mythbusters report, all show unassigned seating to be fastest. ~~~ e12e It's not clear from the link posted earlier[1] if mythbusters did a run of 10-100 seatings and calculated the average/median for each method - but it looks like they just did each once. If so I don't think a difference of +/-1 minute is significant. A difference of 100 in customer satisfaction probably is. This is also culture dependent. Nobody boards planes like a group of Japanese. Be that salarymen or high-schoolers on a school trip. The rest of the world _might_ board in more reasonable time if they got help to stand in line by their seat numbers (better yet, print seatnumber and an integer on the ticket - have people line up at the gate prior to boarding in accordance to the integer). Would work except for the Scandinavians that'd consider themselves exempt... ;-) [1] [http://mythbustersresults.com/airplane- boarding](http://mythbustersresults.com/airplane-boarding) ~~~ JadeNB > have people line up at the gate prior to boarding in accordance to the > integer Whenever I've had to queue way in advance of boarding in order just not to be at the end of my line, I've wished for this sort of solution—but, every time, it seems to me that you'd just run into the trouble where the lower-numbered folks wouldn't all show up on time, and then you'd have to (1) find a way to insert them into the line, which seems like it would have to slow them down, or (2) put them at the back of the line, in which case the whole point of the numbering scheme would be lost and we'd be right back to lines forming long before they need to do so. ~~~ e12e If one had to print tickets, that might be a problem. But with cellphones, you could just have everyone et their seating at the gate. And "dynamically" move people that are late, out of the way. So, lets say a plane seat 100, 75 show up on time - seat them automatically when the show up at the gate according to preferences. Those that remain, get what remains when they arrive. Want your seat? Want to sit with your group? Be at the gate 10 minutes before boarding (or however long it takes people to line up). ------ StillBored Being fast was good for the customer too. Being able to show up a few minutes before the plane was scheduled to depart, buy a ticket, walk out on the tarmac, board, and take off is a far cry from modern air travel. The "bus" mentality, really worked in TX where the cities are close enough to have a lot of commerce/travel but far enough away that driving can take a considerable amount of time. Flight time between dallas->houston is an hour, driving is 3 hours. The problem is that with full planes, reliably buying a same day ticket is basically impossible. Add in parking/shuttles, security and and all the BS pushes the time in excess of 2 hours. Plus, its hard to guess at weather a few days out, so sometimes you know on the way to the airport that delays/etc are going to cause a flight to take longer than driving. The 5 minute faster boarding time on SW is no longer a customer service advantage when the customer has been waiting over an hour to board. ~~~ anovikov Down here in Europe it is still okay to call a taxi 1.5 hours before takeoff, get to the airport, buy a ticket and fly. Is American security checks system so inefficient? In Europe it normally takes maybe 10 minutes if you go the normal line or max 2 minutes if you go choose 5-10 euro fast track, plus 2 minutes to buy that fast track on a separate counter, which a bit sucks. ~~~ superuser2 I don't fly much, but I've never spent more than 10 minutes waiting to be screened, 5 actually being screened. But it's really highly variable, and the downside to missing a flight is very high, so most people show up really early regardless. I gather it can be really bad at peak times. ~~~ astrodust The security lines here, except very early in the morning, are typically 40 minutes, minimum. It's atrocious. The whole charade that taking off your shoes somehow makes people safer is insulting. ~~~ anovikov In Europe they ask you to take off shoes only if they are suspecting something. Like, for <5% of people. I had an unlucky pair of shoes with steel parts which always beeped on the screening machine, so they always asked to take them off, but in no other case. ------ jusben1369 I'm so torn reading this. I do occasionally fly Southwest and I'm always impressed with how everyone working for Southwest seems just as focused on on time as I am. At the same time I think they started the "race to the bottom" that has made air travel such an increasingly unpleasant experience now in the US. ~~~ jdmichal How exactly do you define race to the bottom? If on pricing alone, I can maybe see your argument. But Southwest has had a pretty consistently high level of service and low level of fees. ~~~ jusben1369 This emphasis on turning air travel into bus travel. How quickly can we turn a plane? How quickly can we board people? How many tickets can we _oversell_ hoping/expecting some people won't show leading to stressed staff and passengers getting bumped? How many flights a day can we push with no wiggle room so that a single storm in Chicago means your San Diego to Houston flight is 2 hours late. That whole mentality that it's ok to run the business that way. ~~~ jdmichal I suppose there's some parallels to be drawn to software. I've often heard things like targeting 80% of memory / CPU / networking so that you have some slack for unexpected events. It seems like Southwest focuses on running as close to 100% asset utilization as possible. It's not necessarily optimal when there are issues, but I find it hard to fault them for what I consider to be a pretty legitimate business choice. ------ hliyan Is this one thing credited with saving the airline, or were there other efforts involved? I don't understand how a 10-minute turnaround time can turn an airline around so quickly. ~~~ phpnode Well it's pretty straightforward, if turnaround time is only 10 minutes and your competitors take an hour then you can simply make more flights per aircraft per day than them. This is amplified when your flights are short distance domestic. Depending on destination it probably allowed them to make 2 - 3 extra flights per aircraft per day, at a time when jet fuel was not so expensive. That could make a massive difference to profitability. ~~~ sliverstorm Hell, even in a day where jet fuel is very expensive, daily miles is still a key factor. Your margins might be smaller thanks to jet fuel, but more flights still means more revenue. ------ amelius Sounds like an easy idea to come up with, but more difficult to implement. ------ Cymen Why isn't it possible to get in and out at 10 minutes? Is the modern airport a design failure? ~~~ ItsDeathball Jetways. The article mentions boarding passengers while others are still leaving the plane. That's only possible on a 737 by using two doors, which is only practical if passengers walk out on the tarmac and board/disembark via sets of mobile stairs. ------ xpda NPR doesn't give much credit to the SW airlines ads of the 1970's. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7JApjgIGw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7JApjgIGw) ------ galago Its interesting how the 'reduce friction' mantra was basically as true in 1972 as it is today. ~~~ mcphage I'm sure if the Romans wrote business texts, it would be in there, too :-) ------ afterburner Now, do it in 9! ~~~ metasean Tangential anecdote - In bootcamp, our drill instructors were famous for giving us a countdown and then counting us down along the lines of "You have 10 seconds, 10, 9, 7, 3, 2, 1, you're done!" In addition to skipping numbers, the "3, 2, 1" portion was said as quickly as they could manage. I think we only ever got about 50-75% of any supposed allotment of time. To this day, I still can't hear a countdown without wondering what numbers will be skipped, and of course, I expect "3, 2, 1" to only take up about a second and a half.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Why your desk job is slowly killing you (2010) - zufallsheld http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39523298/ns/health-mens_health/ ====== ColinWright There is an extensive, instructive, interesting, and useful discussion from a previous submission: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1834671](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1834671) Comments there are closed, of course, so if you have anything to add it will need to be here. ~~~ zufallsheld Thanks, I tried searching if it was submitted before, but couldn't find anything.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Apple Airplay – Fix Sound Coming From Laptop Instead of TV - ninjakeyboard http://refactoringfactory.wordpress.com/2014/02/24/airplay-fix-sound-coming-from-laptop-instead-of-desired-device/ ====== sadanapalli Thank you, that helps. I face this problem a lot.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Beautiful PHP - ooooak http://devpy.wordpress.com/2013/03/02/beautiful-php/ ====== bradwestness Not exactly sure what the "tips" are in these, most of them just look like cruddy PHP code. In the 2nd part of Example 2, using "else if" instead of several "if" statements to check the same value would result in fewer comparisons having to be done since the way it's written now the second comparison will always run even if the first one was true. It would be even better to use a switch statement if you're comparing the same variable in each case. ~~~ masklinn > most of them just look like cruddy PHP code. Complete with extra syntax and forgetting your own tips from one example to the next: > return ($string === ""); parens unnecessary: return $string === ""; > $ret = false; > if( time() > $end_time ){ > $ret = true; > } > return $ret; aka return time() > $end_time; > function ($string = null){ > if ($string == '' \|\| null) return 'massage'; pretty sure he meant to say if ($string == '' \|\| $string == null) because there's not point to if (cond \|\| null) since null is falsy, it's the exact same thing as if (cond) > $data = include 'school_data.php'; Oh god, no… > $data_update = $data + array( 'name' => 'surname', 'size' => 40 ); That's not an array _update_ , since it doesn't _update_ the first array. > if(!is_array( $options )) $options = (array)$options; That's absolutely horrible, you've got to know that contrary to what you might expect PHP doesn't convert a sequence of characters (a string) into an array of characters, but essentially does `array($options)` (create a 1-element array with the string). So write that. ------ leeoniya posts like this make me wonder how the frontpage curating process works at HN (or doesnt). i've posted things that had more value and upvotes than whatever this is supposed to be and never made it to the front page. (also php-related, mind you) my guess is that someone wants to show how dumb php programmers are by selectively promoting stuff like this. just sad. ------ jdiez17 Hm, yeah, if a poorly written article with this "beautiful PHP" is what's needed to make it to the frontpage of "Hacker News" I think something has gone awfully wrong. Not to mention most of the code is absolutely horrible and should not be used for anything. ------ sentiental This seems representative of the PHP community in general. The only thing you need to qualify PHP as being "beautiful" is to apply a few tips on how to iterate over your array. There are many other ways to make PHP beautiful. In fact, you can make object models that are almost as flexible, DRY and elegant as they would be in any other language. ------ SlyShy Challenge to PHP programmers here: can you point me to some actual coding best practices for PHP (besides PHP the Right Way)? ~~~ captn3m0 <http://www.codular.com/> has some good examples. Further, anything from the symphony framework and the composer stuff is quite good. See <https://github.com/php-fig/fig-standards> for some of the good work that is happening. ------ sparkygoblue Ugh. Articles like this make me want to join the PHP sucks crowd, and I really hate the PHP sucks crowd. ------ Gigablah if ($string == '' \|\| null) return 'massage'; Heh, beginner mistake. ~~~ jacquesm Two of them, actually. ~~~ edwinjm Only two? 1) if ($string == '' \|\| null) can be improved as if (!$string) 2) $string is a poor variable name 3) if and statement on the same line is bad practice (the return can easily be overlooked when browsing through the code 4) Not using { and } is bad practice. 5) 'massage' should probably be 'message' The code improved should be something like: if (!$name) { return 'No name given'; } ~~~ 1SaltwaterC Due to the "PHP beauty", ! $string isn't equivalent for $string == ''. In this case it is better due to the logical evaluation clusterfuck that PHP does. Example: passing an empty array() as $string bypasses the if, while ! $string is sane enough, but the bang operator fails with "0" which is a valid string that "happens" to evaluate to false. I know these are edge cases, but can lead to funny bugs. Not so funny for those who debug that. ------ benjubb supposed to be ironic right? ~~~ chattamatt I was wondering the same! ~~~ Gigablah Looking at the other articles on the site, I think the poor guy is actually earnest.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
List of unusual Wikipedia articles - infinity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unusual_articles ====== RevRal WTF (A chandelier made of human bones): <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sedlec-Ossuary.jpg> ------ riffraff I am surprised by the lack of the Brother Metal page, but I'm not sure if it deserves being added or deleted :) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesare_Bonizzi> ------ brown9-2 This reminds me of: Does the set that contain all sets contain itself? ~~~ martincmartin Yes, and that's not a contradiction. The problem comes with the set of all sets that _don't_ contain themselves. Does _that_ set contain itself? Both "yes" and "no" lead to contradiction. That contradiction is the basis of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, the Halting Problem and others. ~~~ gambling8nt The collection of all sets is not a set under ZF set theory, regardless of choice. Such a collection, if it were a set, would imply the existence of a set of all sets that did not contain themselves from the axiom schema of specification. ------ drinian Bir Tawil would be a nice place for a data haven, were it not landlocked. ~~~ ugh Hey, I know, let’s open a data haven on the Moon: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius> (Oh, the joys of Wikipedia :) ------ adatta02 well there goes the next 4 hours of my life. the math ones are pretty neat - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_number>	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The CodeSprint Post-Mortem: Statistics and Lessons Learned - mikeinterviewst http://blog.interviewstreet.com/2011/10/codesprint-post-mortem-statistics-and-lessons-learned/ ====== anrope Useful as it is, I hope the high valued problems will become a bit more diverse, involving topics other than graph theory. Despite that, and some late-game changes, I think this first codesprint event went off really well. I think the interviewstreet guys have done a good job of identifying the more pressing issues in their writeup, and this gives me confidence that they understand and can improve on those issues next time around. Good job, and good luck!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Tell HN: Goo.gle's Certificate Has Expired - sharmi google.com uses certificates issued by GlobalSign. Whereas, goo.gle uses Let's Encrypt. Is there a reason for using different providers?<p>Just curious, as I run sitefitnesshq.com and have seen a lot of sites being crippled by expired certificates. ====== HiryuSingh Because goo.gle is run by bit.ly? host goo.gle goo.gle has address 67.199.248.12 goo.gle has address 67.199.248.13 host 67.199.248.12 12.248.199.67.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer cname.bitly.com.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
San Diego: Join us for Hacker News meetup #14 (Fri 2/25) - ericabiz http://anyvite.com/hkbggjx8u1 ====== ericabiz Last month we had over 40 people attend. Can we top that this time? Let's find out! (Please RSVP by clicking on the link above so we can tell our friendly coffee shop owner exactly how many people are taking over his space Friday night!) Want to be notified of future San Diego tech/hacker events? Join our Google group: <http://groups.google.com/group/sd-hackernews> (low volume; mostly announcements) ~~~ jayliew And just to add the SDHN wiki page <http://bit.ly/sdhackernews> ------ bks I am a 7 out of 10 sure I will be there. ------ dmpayton I'll be out of town. Again. :(	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Corporations are refrigerators - piescream http://www.lorrinmaughan.com/coaching-blog/corporations-are-refrigerators ====== Karellen I am reminded of Charles Stross' blog post "Snowden leaks: the real take- home"[0]: "A huge and unmentionable side-effect of the neoliberal backlash of the 1970s was the deregulation of labour markets and the _deliberate destruction_ of the job for life culture, partly as a lever for dislodging unionism [...] Gen Y will stare at you blankly if you talk about loyalty to their employer; the old feudal arrangement ("we'll give you a job for life and look after you as long as you look out for the Organization") is something their grandparents maybe ranted about, but it's about as real as the divine right of kings. _Employers are alien hive-mind colony intelligences who will fuck you over for the bottom line on the quarterly balance sheet._ " (Emphasis mine) He links to an updated version he did for Foreign Policy, but I prefer the tighter wording of those segments in the original. Those are the words I keep in mind when thinking about my relationships with employers. [0] [http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog- static/2013/08/snowden-...](http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog- static/2013/08/snowden-leaks-the-real-take-ho.html) ~~~ ef4 I cannot relate at all to the people who actually lament the bursting of that old model. "Feudal" is an apt description for it, and I guess some people find the certainty of always being a serf comforting. But it was _never_ a great deal for employees. Security has a cost, and an employer who says they can take care of your forever is either lying or forced to dramatically underpay you in the present to account for future risks and costs. And it's a great way to get people to go along with evil. Because who's going to stand up to their "employer for life?" Which is the point of Stross's essay. Giant collectives like governments and corporations cannot feel loyalty to you. Only individual people can do that. And you can't know which person will be holding the power ten years from now, never mind forty. ~~~ eropple _> But it was never a great deal for employees. Security has a cost, and an employer who says they can take care of your forever is either lying or forced to dramatically underpay you in the present to account for future risks and costs._ Not a great deal for you. Or for me. But for most people? Probably a better deal than they'd have gotten otherwise. ------ calibraxis Yes, refrigerators full of bodies. This person preaches just what we'd expect from an HR/selfhelp person: accept it individually. More sensible people don't just organize in "cult-like" corporate communes to further enrich wealthy elites; they organize to build a better society, which requires dismantling these "soulless" gangs which treat humanity as "just collateral damage." (Unfortunately, most who fancy themselves hackers really have no imagination for such things, regardless of rhetoric about "disruption" or "creative destruction".) ~~~ davepage Yet, to "build a better society" is a just euphemism for "build a better government." Empirically, governments organize themselves just as corporations: cult-like, soulless gangs which exist to enrich the wealthy elites and treat humanity as just "collateral damage." In fact, government invented the term of art. The relative advantage of corporations, however, is one can choose to quit. Or choose to not buy their product. No one "has to have" an ipad or other such nonsense. No such option exists with regards to government. Voting has negligible effect and emmigration can only offer a least-worst improvement. ~~~ breakyerself No not really. I didn't read anything in his statement that indicated he wanted to nationalize all the things. Maybe he just wants a better arrangment. The corporation isn't something that arises from the natural order of the universe. It's an arangement designed by the government. I would like it if they phased out that arrangement in favor of cooperatives. Just like a corporation you would be free to quit, but you'd be less likely to want to and less likely to be treated like overhead. ~~~ TeMPOraL > _The corporation isn 't something that arises from the natural order of the > universe. It's an arangement designed by the government._ I sort of disagree. The effects of governments are secondary, akin to trimming a hedge. Corporations look exactly like what happens when you have people getting more and more powerful and people who they rule also rule another people. I don't think it's a coincidence that corporations look a lot like feudal societies. ~~~ thepurplemonk Corporations are defined by a state's laws. A corporate charter is granted by the government. The reason corporations look like feudal societies is that the first ones were formed by feudal lords to harness the power of the merchant class that operated outside the feudal system, essentially granting monopolies. I recommend the first couple of chapters of Life, Inc by Douglass Rushkoff for a good overview of corporate history ------ breakyerself I honestly don't know why we need corporations at all. All they do is make a small number of rich people richer. I'd be happy to see the corporation phazed out in favor of cooperatives. ~~~ ZeroGravitas Strange to find you downvoted. I just finished reading a brief history of the cooperative movement in the UK. I was amused by the various parallels to Free Software: the explicitly utopian premise, the entrenched interests fighting with FUD, the originators being laughed at as kooks and nerds, the startling success of the model that rapidly made it "normal" in many industries. Much like (social) darwinism, too much has been made of competition compared with cooperation in business, in both cases against all evidence (families, herds, the fact that we are ourselves built from cooperating organisms, or on the business side that you have far more suppliers, customers and employees than competitors), because it suited some people with power to justify their actions. ~~~ mercer > I just finished reading a brief history of the cooperative movement in the > UK. I'd love to read this. Can you point me in the right direction? ~~~ ZeroGravitas It was an educational graphic novel produced the by CO-OP group in the UK: [http://www.co-operative.coop/our-ethics/our-plan/co- operativ...](http://www.co-operative.coop/our-ethics/our-plan/co-operative- support/graphic-novel/) You can read the whole thing online in a (slightly) animated Flash version. ~~~ mercer Thanks! I thought I'd have to go find a book in one of those book-buildings. Much appreciated! ------ golemotron > Do remember the function of a corporation. It's to make money for its > stakeholders. If it's a publically traded entity, its job is to increase > shareholder returns at all costs. This goes to the point above. It's not > personal, it's business. Humanity is, sadly, often just collateral damage. Important reading on this: [http://www.amazon.com/The-Corporation-Pathological- Pursuit-P...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Corporation-Pathological-Pursuit- Profit/dp/0743247469) [http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Matters-Privilege- Success-e...](http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Matters-Privilege-Success- ebook/dp/B000FBJCQM) ~~~ dkural Overall this engine has brought great prosperity. A company makes a lot of money when an external group of people find its services valuable so they keep giving this company money. A "job" is a way for you to be productive for other humans. This is primary, everything else secondary. Take joy in this fact of being useful. Being paid is a sufficient condition - for everything else there is family, friends, hobbies, pubs etc. An unprofitable company may have "happy employees" ignoring this fact but ultimately, society at large decided to allocate demand to other companies whose services and products society found more valuable. So, I don't know why an unproductive division consisting of people feel entitled to resources from everybody else? The end result of this is lay-offs. A company that doesn't trim down when demand goes down is jeopardizing everybody else's job. You end up like France & Italy, with bloated unproductive companies, or even worse, Greece, eventually bankrupting the whole country. This is far more pathological. On the other hand, breaking the law is breaking the law. Some companies - more accurately, people in them break the law, and should be held responsible. I understand that layoffs are traumatic and put people in hardship. The correct way to solve this problem is a social safety net, free and universal healthcare & education, and access to new opportunities via specialized training. The wrong way to solve it is force companies to retain people. In other words, we can all help unemployed people by paying more taxes to transfer resources to them to get them back on their feet. But people of course don't like that idea. I vote for fluid labor markets for an efficient economy + strong social safety net. ------ thro2 > Whenever he learned of my latest all night work effort, or when I refused to > take vacation because of a work thing, my Dad always used to counsel me to > go fill a bucket with water and stick my hand in it. Then he'd ask how much > of a hole was left when I took my hand out. Smart man, my Dad - he clearly > learned his lesson after that layoff :-) Can someone explain this? ~~~ davepage The water represents corporate resources and the hand represents the employee. When the employee is removed, other resources back fill to compensate. No need to delude oneself into thinking one is indispensable. The world moves forward whether one is at work or on vacation -- the only question is: what is the benefit and for whom? ------ NKCSS A great article, and one worth sharing with colleagues who make their work their entire life. ------ suprgeek I am usually comfortable engaging with and learning from people who hold completely different world views (that is usually the point of learning after all). This one is a bit hard to take anything from: (ad hominem) "I'm a Certified Holistic Life Coach, Public Speaker, Facilitator, Reiki Master and Animal Communicator. I help people and animals redefine themselves so they can map and move into their true potential,..." ~~~ gergles While some of these things may be less admirable than others (especially to my more science-oriented side), I find it helpful to read the ideas first, process them, then determine if the person's credentials and experience are relevant (in either direction). Being a life coach (even a holistic one), likely has put the author in the position to have seen this happen several times, and her advice here makes a lot of sense as a result. She's not discussing how to channel your energies or talk to animals in this post, so I'd encourage you to look past the credentials and debate the ideas.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How does music streaming websites earn money? - anbux How do music streaming websites like spotify earn revenue? What is there business model? ====== philipkiely By my understanding, Spotify has two major sources of revenue: advertisements on unpaid accounts and subscription fees on paid accounts. The subscription fee for a paid account is 10 USD/month (5 USD for students) and I am unable to speculate about the ad revenue per unpaid user. Spotify has the same expenses as any other tech company, (programmers, servers, office space, lawyers, 100 other things) but also has to pay licensing fees to artists. A major issue in the music industry right now is the low fees that streaming platforms pay artists. ------ acoye They only get only a small cut on prices set by "majors" Some streaming companies try to rollout the netflix model (producing artists / cut the middle man) but it is david v goliath. ------ anbux Are they living on subscription model?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
iOS Developer/Designer Interview Questions - CameronBanga https://github.com/CameronBanga/iOS-Developer-and-Designer-Interview-Questions ====== kalyan02 Majority of these questions seem to be Trivia, which can be looked up. I don't see any need to learn them. They are probably nice to know but are not helpful in objectively evaluating a developers iOS skills. The important thing while talking to candidates is evaluating their understanding of technical concepts - like multithreading, GCD vs NSOperations, application lifecycle, properties, references, blocks, memory management, caches, sandboxing, responder chain. Whats the point of someone knowing HealthKit or Voiceover or screen resolutions if they don't understand how atomic or nonatomic properties differ? ~~~ CameronBanga Understandable, I'm mostly a designer and so the first run I had a few questions like this sounded a little rough. Have a friend contributing and helping with these a bit, but still very early on this. If you have any suggested questions, I would love to add them. If you don't wanna go through the PR, etc, my email is in my profile. Feel free to send over and I will add. ------ lazerwalker If you're in a situation where the best way you have to assess a candidate is to ask them questions, I'd recommend focusing on types of questions that open up room for discussion about how the candidate thinks and works rather than simply asking trivia questions about Apple's frameworks. In context of iOS/Obj-C/Cocoa, ask about MVC. Ask about delegates versus blocks versus notifications as mechanisms of communicating between objects. Ask about CocoaPods, but framed as a larger question of when and how to bring in and manage third-party dependencies versus building them yourself. Give them the opportunity to share how they think, not just what they know. ~~~ CameronBanga Great points. See here, [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8828209](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8828209), but if you have questions, I would love to add. Send over a PR or email them (email in profile). ------ danilocampos I'm afraid this isn't going to produce much beyond anxiety in your candidates. This leads to the sort of interaction where I'd end the interview early, thank the interviewer for their time, and high-tail it out of there never to return. It's a trivia quiz. And frankly, who cares if you know what iBeacons are? What's the likelihood a project requires knowledge of both iBeacons and HealthKit? HealthKit AND HomeKit? HomeKit AND Apple Pay? Why ask about something as deeply specialized as Metal, a brand new 3D graphics API, when so few projects are likely even to need it—except in game dev shops? And in what conceivable universe does someone need to know the screen resolutions of any given piece of hardware? I've been building iOS apps for six years now, and I barely remember at any given moment. Anyone looking for great interview questions for iOS devs should instead consult Black Pixel's excellent post here: [http://blackpixel.com/blog/2013/04/interview-questions- for-i...](http://blackpixel.com/blog/2013/04/interview-questions-for-ios-and- mac-developers-1.html) It talks through concepts as much as technologies, hitting the most common cases for what a developer will actually use. ------ dubcanada How does any of this prove they are a good candidate? All this proves is they can remember things. When coding all if not 99% of these questions are a 4 second Google away. And most of them are also opinions which tend to lead to bias. "Oh this user doesn't like Xcode, while I only use Xcode, so nope to him". ~~~ bvanslyke This was my first thought, too. "What is widget X" isn't a good question. Questions more along the lines of "When would you use widget X over widget Y" will lead to better insight about a candidate, and will show actual experience. In the same way, for normal CS questions, "Write a hash-table implementation" is OK but I think it's better go with a question where a good solution involves _using_ a hash-table. ~~~ martinni Absolutely a lot of these questions were general knowledge to any techsavvy guy. I strongly recommend this book called [Cracking the coding interview] by Gayle Laakmann. It's very details and in-depth, helped me prepare for all my interviews. ------ flyosity This list reads like a multiple-choice test at a community college for a "Survey of iOS Technologies" course. Casual iPhone aficionados who read 9to5Mac would dazzle an interviewer if they were merely asked these trivia- type questions. ------ nicktal CameronBanga, appreciate you sharing this! As a long-time iOS designer and developer, I appreciate you helping and effort in finding a great one. I unfortunately think that all of your questions are at best, filtering questions to ensure they have base familiarity with pretty benign facts and at worse, questions that give no insight at all into iOS abilities. Your design questions are, in particular, extremely trivial and almost silly. Feel free to reach-out to me if you'd like to collab on a better list. Everyone else reading this, no even semi-serious iOS developer or designer would endorse these questions as a robust way to filter candidates or even teach yourself. ~~~ CameronBanga Posted a link here, [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8828209](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8828209), explaining. This was a quick starting point for a friend and I, hoped a post here would encourage a person or two to help out, and seeing a huge unexpected response. I am more than happy to accept any suggestions, I understand most are super trivial, I assume these as a starting point for any conversation, or as basically a few things that could help give someone an idea as to where to start. PRs are appreciated, or feel free to just email me questions and I will add (email in profile). Create an issue and add there as well, and I will go ahead and work in. Whatever is easiest! Thanks for all of the attention everyone. I know it's basic, but it's a start. Hopefully we can work to evolve it into a much more detailed document that a few of you can benefit from. ------ rentnorove > What's your favorite feature of Xcode? Bonus points if they laugh bitterly. ~~~ objclxt That question really needs to be flipped (this is true of any "what's your favorite feature of [x]?" style question). It's far better to ask "what would you _change_ about Xcode / developing for iOS[1]", because anyone can recite features of a product - it's another thing to be asked to critically think about what you would actually change to make your life as a developer easier. [1] NB: "Crash less" doesn't count as an answer for Xcode, correct as it may be... ------ eclipxe First of all, thank you for taking the time putting this together. Next, this should be used as a good example of "types of questions not to ask in a technical interview". These will give little insight into what a candidate actually knows other than random trivia. I've seen a lot of junior interviewers focus on these types of questions, to perilous results. ~~~ gsands I actually think high level questions like these are just conversation starters which can get into highly technical conversations quickly. Sort of like the technologies themselves; GameCenter and CoreEverything are abstractions of lower level functionality. Being able to discuss their purpose, how to use them, and how to glue them together is what a good developer is. The rest is just syntax. ~~~ CameronBanga Moreover, I never see these questions as just being a one-by-one trivia list for applicants. More of just a thing to look over, see the technologies that your app may use, and then use these questions as kinda a way to launch discussion with an applicant to see how well the know their stuff. ------ vrao423 I would add questions where answers can't be found easily by searching or on stack overflow. If the answer is found in the first search result, then I don't see the point in checking if the interviewee has memorized it. Add questions that should lead to discussions and show general knowledge. I would add a section for small, interesting coding challenges. ------ CameronBanga Hey all, Saw a similar link a few weeks back on a list of questions for front-end website designers. I thought it was a really great lists for people looking to hire a programmer/designer here in the new year, so wanted to make something similar for iOS, as we may be hiring and it would be useful to have this on hand. This is an early work in progress, but suggestions/PRs would be much appreciated! ~~~ pranayairan would love to see similar list for android as well !! ~~~ CameronBanga Was hoping to work on this next week, as we do a bunch of Android work as well and it would be useful for us! I'll link in this repo when I get that up. ------ klausa Shameless plug: a short article about the company I work at interviews candidates: [http://macoscope.com/blog/so-you-have-a-technical- interview-...](http://macoscope.com/blog/so-you-have-a-technical-interview-at- macoscope/) ~~~ CameronBanga Added it into the guide as a link, thanks for the heads up! ------ jrm2k6 Off-topic: Is there something like that for Android Developers?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A Story of O(racle) - bjonathan http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2010/08/31/A-Story-of-O ====== j_baker Much as I dislike this as a developer, this is a smart business strategy for Oracle. Let's face it: at the companies that use Oracle, the developers aren't the one making the call as to what database to use. That's the call of much higher-ups. About the only solution I can suggest is to avoid working for such companies, but I'm be preaching to the choir to say that. ~~~ cageface Maybe. Maybe not. I've had _nothing_ but bad experiences with Oracle in several jobs now and will emphatically advise against it at every opportunity. Postgres may not be a drop-in replacement for every Oracle use case but for those that are I'll recommend it first any day of the week. Oracle in a job description is a big red flag for me. ~~~ gaius Technically or culturally? Because a properly installed and maintained Oracle is pretty reliable and straightforward to use. If you even _can_ run your application on Postgres then you wasted your money buying Oracle; you aren't using it for what it's for[1]. [1] I am aware that convincing people that they might need to in future is key to Oracle's business model, but that's beside the point. ~~~ cageface Technically. In two different jobs now I've seen a small army of consultants unable to keep an Oracle cluster running as reliably as a single Postgres instance, despite jaw-dropping license fees. It's also pretty painful to use, from simple command-line interactions to dumping & restoring data to interfacing with any code that isn't "enterprise". Blob performance was also astonishingly bad. I guess you're stuck with it if you need to run Oracle financials or Peoplesoft or something like that but one of my professional goals is to never work for another company big or dumb enough to use either. ~~~ gaius That says more about consultants than it does about Oracle ;-) Oracle (the database) in the hands of anyone basically competent is easily capable of 5-9s reliability. Not that I'm saying Postgres isn't mind. I'm just saying, use the right tool for the job (and hire the right people). I find DataPump very easy to use, and very fast, it's I/O bound even on serious storage arrays. YMMV. SQL*Plus is definitely showing its age I agree. ------ protomyth > The central relationship between Oracle and its customers is a business > relationship ... The concerns of developers are just not material at the > level of that conversation Sadly, this is why Oracle could buy Sun and not the other way around. ~~~ bad_user Having an engineering culture and fostering developer mindshare ... hasn't been a bad business choice for companies like Google or Apple or Microsoft (at least in their early days). And last time I checked, all 3 companies mentioned are bigger in market cap then Oracle. What strikes me is ... how the fuck did Jonathan Schwartz allow the selling of Sun to a company who's culture is so different? ~~~ TY To the question of why it was sold to a company with such a vastly different culture. Because it does not matter to the shareholders what kind of culture Oracle has. The only metric that mattered was how much money Oracle was willing to pay for Sun vs another bidder. Using any other criteria would just launch a nasty shareholder lawsuit against Sun's soon to be departed management... ~~~ maukdaddy ^ More hackers need to understand this. When you go _pubic_ with an IPO, the shareholders are in charge. The Board and CEO are _elected_ on behalf of those shareholders. The Board and CEO's function is to maximize shareholder value. If a CEO doesn't consider an extremely generous bid then he is breaking his fiduciary duty to those shareholders, and will be out of a job. ~~~ jrockway How did Oracle maximize _their_ value by buying Sun? Sun has Solaris, Java, and VirtualBox. All are free. When Oracle took over, everyone that worked for Sun quit. So Oracle paid a lot of money for a bunch of free stuff. Why? ~~~ gvb Recent history suggests for Sun's patents, not their software. Oracle has claimed they bought Sun for their hardware (e.g. so they could do vertical integration selling like IBM), but that remains to be seen if it is true or not. ~~~ ora600 Oracle used Sun's hardware to build the Exadata - which they very aggressively sell as a data warehouse solution. Competing with Netezza, Teradata, Greenplum and the likes. ------ TrevorBramble Some might miss the significance of the post title: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story_of_O> ~~~ abeppu Is there an allusion or metaphor implicit here that I'm not getting? ~~~ Jun8 On a tangential note, if you think _The Story of O_ is about an abusive relationship, I'd say you haven't read the book or watched the movie: (i) O _willingly_ enters the relationship (ordeal may be a better word here) and (ii) it's not your usual S&M or _Belle de Jour_ story either, because she also gains power over her lover, e.g. see the last scene in the movie. So, the analogy may be more apt than the crude master-slave relationship that people have commented here: many companies willingly choose Oracle, knowing full well its tactics and that they will be locked in. ------ ora600 Maybe I don't understand the concept of "developer mindshare" well enough but it seems to me that Oracle does engage with the user community and not just the business community. They do this through user conferences such as Collaborate and ODTUG (which is developer specific) - those conferences are much more technical in nature than the marketing oriented OpenWorld. Oracle also have the OTN and its ACE program for engaging with the technology people, including forums, beta programs, code sharing site, etc. And of course, Oracle supports the local user groups which are also technology oriented - many of those user groups are highly critical of many Oracle decisions (and you should have heard the noise when Oracle Support site switched to flash) - but Oracle still supports them because they know that an active user community is essential. ~~~ j_baker Well of course. I don't doubt that Oracle is aware of their developers' existence and gives them _some_ form of support. But how much of Oracle's time and money goes to developer support compared to companies like Microsoft? Much as I dislike Microsoft, I have to give them credit for engaging their developer community. ~~~ ora600 I'm not sure how to answer that. How do you know how much of Microsoft's time and money goes to developer support? How do you know that Oracle does any less? I don't have any real hard numbers. Microsoft MSDN for developer support and Oracle has OTN. Both companies have developer oriented conferences in addition to business conferences. Both companies employ evangalists that work with startups to help them adopt their technologies. Where do you see the difference? ------ 10ren Sun was a phenomenally successful business - but not at selling software. Software was their way to sell hardware. A few years back, I wanted to buy stock in a software company, because I was in the software business, knew something about it, and owning stock would result in me learning more, which would benefit me doubly. Out of Sun and Adobe, and choose Sun (still love java); but after I placed the order, I realized that Sun wasn't a software company. It didn't draw significant revenue from software. I tried to change the order to Adobe, but it was too late. I sold it years later, for half. I don't regret the loss (it's the stockmarket after all), but I do regret mistaking Sun for a software company. ------ julius_geezer It has been a while (decade?) since I went to OOW. But as I recall I had no trouble finding technical sessions, if not at a level to engage Tim Bray. Many were about making your database run faster & better; some about using Oracle's favored tools of the moment (BC4J, possibly still some client-server stuff). ------ pkaler How is this a bad thing? It's all about building the best applications for your customers. In the enterprise space the customer is other businesses. Apple does essentially the same thing in the consumer space. The user is more important than the developer. This is a good thing. Imagine if airlines treated their relationship with the flier as the most important. Imagine if politicians treated their relationship with constituents as most important. ------ rmorrison If you have experience with your startup partnering (or trying to partner) with Oracle, could you please contact me? Particularly, if Oracle added your product to their price lists (or if you were trying to make this happen). Thank you very much.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Deep Learning for Natural Language Processing – ICLR 2017 Discoveries - amund https://amundtveit.com/2016/11/12/deep-learning-for-natural-language-processing-iclr-2017-discoveries/ ====== nl A few brief notes: Not at all sure the recommendations system papers should be grouped with QA papers. The techniques used aren't that closely related. FastText(.zip) continues to be a weird project. _LEARNING A NATURAL LANGUAGE INTERFACE WITH NEURAL PROGRAMMER_ \- yeah, that's something. The neural programmer and related stuff seems like something out of sci-fi, even more so than normal neural networks. ~~~ Eridrus > FastText(.zip) continues to be a weird project. What is weird to you about the project? I haven't looked at the details, but the motivation seems pretty obviously to be able to run deep learning models on people's phones without seriously impacting UX. Hell, even running a large vocabulary model on a server can be annoying when these models take ~10GB to just store the word vectors. ~~~ nl Well, it isn't deep learning for one thing. Basically it's a reappraisal of early 2000-style manually engineered features. It's good work, but doesn't add much over VopalWabbit. I haven't read the .zip paper in depth, but the mobile angle doesn't seem convincing to me. Text models generally just aren't that big! Drop the number of dimensions in W2V and it's really pretty small, and still expressive. Don't get me wrong - I like FastText. But it suprises me it remains a research direction - almost everyone else is working on trying other approaches to get an AlexNet like breakthrough on NLP tasks. It's pretty clear that breakthrough won't come from the FastText approach. ~~~ Eridrus > Well, it isn't deep learning for one thing. You know, I didn't actually realise that. I had only glanced at it and assumed they were applying these ideas to deep models. > Drop the number of dimensions in W2V and it's really pretty small, and still > expressive. I don't think it's crazy to want to be able to do get better performance with small memory targets though. They're working on other directions too, but maybe this is useful for their product groups. ------ Smerity I provided a write-up of interesting ICLR submissions, primarily for NLP, but have also provided a small snippet explaining why I thought the paper was important or how it fit with other recent relevant papers. [http://smerity.com/articles/2016/iclr_2017_submissions.html](http://smerity.com/articles/2016/iclr_2017_submissions.html) I'd also strongly recommend people read through all the submissions themselves as every person seems to select a different set of papers depending on what they're interested in. My write-up has very few papers discussing CNNs for example as I'm focused on RNNs for the most part. [http://openreview.net/group?id=ICLR.cc/2017/conference](http://openreview.net/group?id=ICLR.cc/2017/conference) ------ activatedgeek "Error establishing a database connection"	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
iPhone X - interconnector https://www.apple.com/iPhone-x ====== zaroth They make is so easy to login to the phone -- I'm still waiting for the ability to add multiple users. When I hand my phone to my daughter she should see her apps, my son, his. And when I hand my phone to my wife, she should unlock it and see.... _her phone_. If 256GB local storage and 11ac WiFi isn't enough storage and bandwidth to make this easy, I would be OK if it only kept the last GB of the camera roll. Of course this sync should happen directly between our devices when they are on the same network. No need to go through the cloud. By default if her phone rings it should only alert on her primary device. Unless she authenticates to my device at which point everything is there waiting. If her phone was ringing and she picks up my device and authenticates it should answer the call. Ideally this is all smooth enough that we have matching devices and don't care which one either of us walks out of the house with. The end game is that when networks are fast enough, the cloud mature enough, and homomorphic encryption performant, we get to the point where the phone basically lives in the cloud and anyone can pick up any iDevice, authenticate, and be looking at effectively their own device. ~~~ addicted Steve Jobs talked about this when he returned to Apple. He basically discussed how he would work at his home Mac and then come to the office and login and suddenly with the internet and networking the work Mac would be exactly the same. I think the ideal should basically be that. You can pick up a phone, any phone (limited to iPhones for Aplle), login to your iCloud account and suddenly it's your phone, indistinguishable from the other phone thst was yours, outside maybe unavailable hardware features. That's one of the great things about web apps. I can log into Gmail anywhere and it's the same thing. I haven't used it, but I believe this is the promise ChromeOS delivers. ~~~ copperx Isn't this the decades-old idea of Plan9? ~~~ Sharlin It's the decades-old idea of _thin clients_. ~~~ TheOtherHobbes No, it's not, because the CPU is still local, so you're not just using your device as a terminal to a remote server. We don't have the infrastructure for this yet. The absolutely open version - even if it was just storing apps centrally and downloading them on demand, and not downloading _everything_ \- would still require something like 100 times more bandwidth than we have now to be usably fast. A workable version, with local storage providing device accounts for a small number of users, would still need more local storage than we have now, and storage isn't cheap enough yet to make this fully affordable. 256/512GB devices could possibly handle family needs, just about, but would struggle at work. ~~~ majewsky IMO network bandwidth and latency is a bigger problem than storage. Right now, I can stream [1] HD movies from my homeserver to wherever my notebook is right now, because the upstream at home is wide enough (6 megabits per sec). But that application only works because it has quite predictable bandwidth requirements and can cope with latency quite well. Many other applications would be horribly slow if every file access had a second-long roundtrip. [1] via sshfs ------ leeoniya > Your face is now your password no, it isnt. and neither are your fingerprints. none of this publicly available data is a password. a password is something i can change if it gets compromised. a password is _secure_ from others. biometric data is a _username /id_. why do companies insist on getting this shit backwards? ~~~ audunw > biometric data is a username/id. > why do companies insist on getting this shit backwards? They don't have it backwards, but they're also simplifying when they say it's your password. In the presentation they actually say specifically that there's a chance that someone else can unlock your phone (1 in 50'000 for fingerprint, and supposedly 1 in 1'000'000 for Face ID, given that you don't have a twin). Reality is that it's somewhere in between. A fingerprint sensor or face reader will keep casual snoopers - and most people who find your phone on the street - out. That's all that matters for most people. It's not a username. It's at least moderately hard for someone to duplicate, and it's not something you'd actively share with someone. It's not as safe as a password, but Apple isn't trying to claim that either. I think it's a good idea to avoid false dichotomy here. Biometrics is biometrics. It should be treated as distinct from passwords or usernames. ~~~ ballenf Watching someone key in a PIN and recording it, then swiping the phone is easier than building a 3D printed color model of someone's face. Not to mention that having the biometric unlock sitting on top of a PIN means that there are many fewer chances for the PIN to be observed. Whether biometric access is a password or username is trying to force the wrong paradigm. Going back to first concepts, we had keys and we tried to make them hard to copy but not too inconvenient. The face is the key. No, there's no practical way to re-key this lock, but it's still a lock and key. But the door also has a deadbolt (PIN code) which has to be disengaged for the "face key" to function. The username concept applies when you have multiple people using the same resource (and don't want to know or reveal whether any 2 people use the same password) -- which again doesn't apply to a single-user device. Finally, all this combined with the quick "hard lock" of the device (5 taps of power button) gives me the impression of a very thorough approach to security. ~~~ chrischen It's more like walking around with your pin written on your forehead. ~~~ mygo Except that a regular pin pad lets anyone enter the pin. Your pin code can only be keyed in by 1:1000000 people [citation needed]. So no, your pin is not on your forehead. Your pin is an organic material with color and depth and movement that for all intents and purposes is your actual forehead. The average opportunist thief won't be able to duplicate that key. The best that they can do is use your actual face, within a few feet from you, while you're staring directly at the phone in their hands. ------ chris_7 I unlock my phone in my pocket with Touch ID all the time - ready to go and on the home screen by the time I've flipped it around in my hand. Feels like a straight downgrade in usability. also, some engineer at apple had to continuously grow a beard to test this ~~~ dan1234 I think speed of the facial recognition will make or break this. If it takes less than 500ms of me staring at it to unlock it could feel fluid enough. Any longer and it'll be annoying every time. ~~~ davrosthedalek 500ms is a LOOONG time. That's about how long my S8 needs, and I always question whether it works this time. 100ms or so would be great. ~~~ kfriede I may be wrong, but I remember reading something that most humans can't notice any lag below 200ms. ~~~ coolsunglasses That's absolutely not true. I can tell the difference between 60 hz (16ms) and my 144 hz monitor. I can tell when my 144 hz monitor is accidentally running at a lower refresh rate, including 120, 100, 75, and 60. 200 ms is like a full react/response time for a human to take action in response to input, our actual sense of time is much finer than what our nervous system can make our muscles do. ~~~ TylerE That's not lag though, that's refresh rate. The question is could you tell the difference between your 144hz monitor and your 144hz monitor with the signal delayed 100ms. ~~~ davrosthedalek Good monitor reviews include a test of the delay. 3 frames delay (<100 ms at 60hz) is absolutely atrocious and easily detected by players in games. But of course, that's not the problem. It's ok that the phone doesn't unlock with out me noticing the delay. It just can't be so long that I start doubting whether it works. ~~~ eanzenberg I notice a 1 frame in 60hz delay (<17ms) when comparing vsync on vs. gsync @ 57 fps. I'm sure many other video gamers will as well. ------ nunez These keynotes were _magical_ before leakers leaked everything. I'm wondering if Apple should scrap these and aim for smaller, unplanned releases instead. As far as this phone goes, I am really excited to see how it stacks up to the Galaxy S8. Face ID is incredibly enticing, but Samsung Pay is much more universal. The only thing that is making me want to retreat back to an iPhone is its inferior Bluetooth audio quality. ~~~ geff82 Honestly, my wife and I had no previous exposure to leaks besides "there will be something expensive". And then it felt like the real Apple magic. We sat there and at every product presented we said "Wow, we want this. NOW!". While the iPhone 8 still felt quite normal, the iPhone X absolutely killed it for us. And let's not begin with the eSim-Watch... which is so SciFi that I wanted it back in 1990 when I was still 8 years old. We have to appreciate that there is more to life than revolution, Apple "simple" does evolution at a very high level and in the end, they lead the competitors. Today, we could see the stuff that Samsung and others will get right in a year or two. When Apple already presents their next evolution... It is not about having the right specs, but the right concept. I already know the friend who will come to me tomorrow that his HTC has and 8 core processor while Apple has only six. The point is: it is all useless without the whole package being perfect. And while Apple is freaking expensive upfront, the peace of mind is worth it. ~~~ kingnothing Similar watches with LTE have been available from Samsung and others for years. Objectively speaking, Apple's latest watch isn't anything special. ~~~ geff82 Objectively speaking, no other consumer tech company grooms and refines their products do much as Apple. (Only got my first iPhone last year after being so hackerish minded as to avoid ever using them... could not be happier) ~~~ dsego You meant to say grooms their customers. ------ AaronFriel I wonder if the tech team involved with Face ID factored the birthday paradox into their security factor. They touted a "1 in 1,000,000" chance that someone else's face unlocks one's iPhone X. Well, with the birthday paradox, let's say there were, say, exactly 1179 people in the Steve Jobs Auditorium and they all had iPhone Xs. That's 694,431 unique pairs of people, and there would be roughly a 50% chance of two of the attendees faces unlocking the same phone. That's not helpful for brute forcing a single phone, but it is mildly disconcerting that a security factor of only 1 in 1,000,000 is considered a "wow" factor. Edit: Some people are asking, "But isn't that equivalent to a six digit pin?" Yes, of course. I am just opining on the marketing spiel for security not being nearly as impressive as it sounds. More boring features like the secure enclave play a much larger role in the security of the iPhone than the "1 in X" chance of a successful unlock. ~~~ oneeyedpigeon I don't think anyone's considering faceid a "wow" factor in terms of its high security (or lack thereof). It's hard to get the general public excited about levels of security. Face ID is pretty much a hack, one that's existed on android phones for many years, that Apple has to polish as best it can. I didn't watch the keynote: do they have touch ID on the back? ~~~ OstrichGlue Nope, no Touch ID. The presenter also failed to unlock via Face ID several times in a row, prompting a "please enter your pin to unlock phone message". Worst time for it to happen. ~~~ oneeyedpigeon Huge mistake, IMO. People really love touch id, and it would've essentially been 'free' had they just moved it to the back. I've been using Huawei's equivalent on the Nexus 6P for over a year now, and it works like a dream. ~~~ daxorid > People really love touch id What? TouchID effectively hands your entire phone contents over to the Feds, as it's significantly easier to compel a fingerprint than a passcode. There is absolutely nothing to "love" about TouchID, unless you work in law enforcement. ~~~ problems The same applies to facial recognition too. ------ capkutay I have a suspicion that removing the home button and relying on swipe- interactions might be a step back in usability for the non-tech savvy people who have made up a large share of iPhone users. ~~~ JorgeGT It reminds me of Motorola's option to remove Android's black button bar and rely instead of swiping gestures over the fingerprint reader [1]. I tried it and, to their credit, it works very well. But it felt unnatural and my muscle memory didn't adjust quickly, so I disabled it. [1] [https://motorola-global- portal.custhelp.com/app/answers/inde...](https://motorola-global- portal.custhelp.com/app/answers/indevice_detail/a_id/116532/p/30,6720,10165) ~~~ zecg In my experience, it works like a dream. The combined fingerprint reader / home / back / app list button on MG5+ is great. I think it took a few minutes to fully internalize it. Also "make a twisting motion to start camera" is incredibly handy. I don't use the "shake for flashlight", as I fear it will misfire and empty my battery. ~~~ JorgeGT Maybe I should give it a second chance, but I agree that the other gestures are great. You should try the flashlight one, I have it activated in my MG5+ and has never misfired, since you need a pretty vigourous shake to activate it. ------ mortenjorck I can understand the compromise of the "notch" for the sensor bar in portrait- oriented UIs. Some thoughtful juggling of the status bar, some added interaction, and you're all set. A reasonable trade-off. What I cannot understand at all is the compromise in landscape mode, for games and video. Rather than just black out the uneven area and limit the drawable area to the largest unbroken rectangle, everything Apple shows appears _partially obscured_ by the notch. The AR game example literally has the notch starting to eat into the UI. In my book, this leaps from "acceptable trade- off" to "bizarre sacrifice." It's like living with a cracked corner of the screen, right out of the box. ~~~ walru Which begs the question: Would Jobs have delivered this? note: I personally say no. The form factor is, with all it's curves, a failure for creating UI/UX that feels complete. It's going to force more people to go Android first with their software development. When Android starts getting newer and better software more frequently the sea change will continue to widen and even long lasting fans will want to try something else. ~~~ sneak [https://begthequestion.info](https://begthequestion.info) ~~~ umanwizard On what authority does the author of this site tell me what things mean in my own native language? ~~~ kbutler Well, "beg the question" is a translation from latin - petitio principii - so pedants could say it isn't from your native language (unless you meant latin). Language evolves - things that start out as misunderstandings or errors become informal usage, then dominant usage, then the correct way. Others stay misunderstandings or errors. It pays to learn the correct way so you sound educated as you speak, and so other educated people don't automatically discount what you say, but there's little benefit in attempting to correct others. That said, mis-using erudite words or phrases spoils the effect. ~~~ porkloin >Language evolves - things that start out as misunderstandings or errors become informal usage, then dominant usage, then the correct way. Yes, language does evolve. For example, American English has evolved in such a way that "beg the question" now means "raise the question" to the vast majority of people in the year 2017. Forgive me, but I think you're in the minority of people who bristle at the contemporary usage of this phrase, which makes you come off as incredibly pedantic. ~~~ kbutler Please note that I responded to the "by what authority" comment, not the "begs the question" comment... The reason to care about official meanings is to avoid sounding uneducated. I literally could care less about "begs the question". The formal use can be depreciated - we're not likely to staunch that floe. But irregardless of my feelings, people who flaunt the official meaning and right "begs the question" in the increasingly common usage have the wrong affect - they sound like they're putting on heirs - "raises" or "brings up" each sound more naturist. (Yes, that was fun. I hope you like it, too!) ~~~ porkloin Top notch response! :) ------ pritambarhate Do you think phones are a "done" thing? I mean what we are seeing these days is more of an evolution than revolution. With iPhone X I think we know what the phone industry will move towards for next 4 years. All these features are cool and somewhat exciting but nothing groundbreaking that will change computing/communications forever. VR was supposed to be the game changer but it appears that it will also take around 4-5 years at least to be mainstream. What do you think will bring the next revolution in personal computing and communications? ~~~ cymbalrush I want one computing device, or an iPhone that can run OSX (or some future OS thats a blended version of IOS and OSX). Like a Switch that I can take me, or plug in at home and get more power/features. ~~~ david-cako Been saying this forever -- this is the next HUGE leap that I see. Steve Jobs wanted the iPad to be a small Mac rather than a big iPhone. For someone like me, there are still critical things missing from the iPhone for it to be my primary computing device. ~~~ cymbalrush Yes for example IOS is terrible for photo editing or any kind of media production. It can work in a pinch but not useful for daily workflows. ~~~ david-cako It would literally have to break out into a jailed macOS session when docked for it to be at all practical for me, honestly. The average user could no doubt make due with a minimal multi-window iOS interface. I have no idea how people work with an iPad in any serious capacity when you are restricted to a full screen interface. ------ goberoi Can the new camera technology be used to map spaces as big as rooms? If so, this could be game changing for allowing the creation of VR spaces quickly and inexpensively. E.g., play a VR game in your real house after mapping it with your iPhone X. Or better, do a detailed remodel in VR before doing it in real life. A lot of commercial uses of VR technology (e.g., construction, industrial design, etc.) can benefit from inexpensive, and accurate mapping. Today, the alternative is to get an architect to build a model of your house, to build a crude version yourself, have a Hololens/Tango phone/or other nascent and expensive technology. If not, what truly is the game changing aspect of these cameras + specialized compute for machine learning/neural nets? They have to have thought through dozens of use cases beyond photos, animated emojis, and other trivial entertainment... right? ~~~ Sgt_Apone Someone has already built a measuring tape app out of this thing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpEWv9_6Cg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpEWv9_6Cg). Not exactly mapping as you're describing, but it's an interesting use case. ~~~ gxs Interesting - thanks for sharing. I actually thought the trajectory app was pretty cool. ------ drakenot I can't believe that video plays "under" the notch. I would have bet money that they would have blacked out the status bar during video playback. ~~~ miguelrochefort I'm sure they're going to let you make the status bar black to make the notch seamless. ~~~ provemewrong That's what I assumed was going to happen, but nowhere in the keynote was it black. ~~~ anonred It was black in Apple Music (now playing view). ------ balls187 $1000 for higher fidelity snapchat features. I love my iphone camera, and if the upgrade program isn't too terrible, I will get the iPhoneX, but call me underwhelmed. The implementation of faceID seems really poorly thought out. I can unlock my phone, and navigate it before focusing my attention on it. I feel like "attention to unlock" is going to cause an increase in distracted driver related incidents. ~~~ FireBeyond "This is an image straight out of the camera, with no post processing. All we've done is apply a Portrait Filter to fade out the background." Uhhh, I guess that doesn't count as post processing, then. ~~~ balls187 These days, after the rise of dSLRs, post-processing is something that occurs after the image is saved to memory. Raw sensor data to JPEG undergoes incamera processing. Cameras typically only allow small oversight of that process, so many photographers prefer to shoot RAW, and do 100% of the processing via post-processing. ~~~ FireBeyond That's apologist at best. I'm not disputing the feature is cool, or whatever. But what they're doing is unabashedly post processing. Come on, in most of the examples there were sliders to choose the effect, the intensity thereof. To claim "well, it's not really post processing because you're doing it before 'saving'" (also doubtful because if it's an extension of what is currently possible with editing on the iPhone, it's an edit to a saved original) is grasping at a straws, as is comparing it to "raw-to-JPEG". This is 'straight out of Aperture/Lightroom' style editing, aka post processing. ~~~ yladiz If I remember right from the keynote, "no post processing" wasn't mentioned on the photos that had the new lighting feature. Even if it were, however, I'd still call it true; I would consider post processing something that you do outside of the Camera app (e.g. even editing it Photos to adjust lighting, black point, saturation). Something you do in the Camera app, even if it does some fancy "magic", I would argue falls outside of the post-processing realm. ~~~ FireBeyond You're certainly entitled to that opinion, as is Apple, but it basically flies against the definition of anything else in photography. "Straight Out Of Camera" is about taking the time and effort to nail something so that when you hit the shutter button, exposure, focus, composition are all "as the camera saw it", not "as the camera saw it and then image manipulation software found the subject, and applied a mask to the image to burn out the non-subjective areas while keeping the exposure of the subject as-is, if not enhanced". Edit: Hell, even Apple's own iPhone X page up now says this: "A new feature in Portrait mode, Portrait Lighting produces impressive studio‑quality lighting effects." "Create beautiful selfies with sharp foregrounds and artfully blurred backgrounds." Somehow, these are "effects" which don't fall under the umbrella of post- processing. But this is a nitpick, admittedly. Nothing wrong with the feature or whatever, but it amused me to hear "No processing. Just [applied post processing]." ~~~ balls187 "Create beautiful selfies with sharp foregrounds and artfully blurred backgrounds." This occurs optically, by choosing the proper depth of field, and an appropriate focus point. The blurring of the background is "bokeh" and used in portraits, none of which is considered "post processing." Clearly the iphone guts aren't nearly as capable as my 5D2, but my opinion is that if it's software that can produce a reasonable approximation of something that can be done optically (or in the case of studio lighting with a pair of strobes), it's fine to not be pedantic. ~~~ jvzr Unless I misread you, this is not what is happening here. That tiny camera/sensor combo is unable to do that narrow of a depth of field. There's a blur, but nowhere near that extent. The “bokeh” here is completely software generated, and made quite the buzz last year. I remember reading a technical post by an Apple engineer explaining how they reinvented a way to do lens blur instantaneously on the phone. ------ aeturnum Could we have a modicum of skepticism in repeating press releases? >Thanks to this new design, the iPhone X is sealed for water and dust resistance. So the iPhone 7, which does not use this design, was not water and dust resistant? I know this is a meta point, but it's annoying. Apple can say whatever they like in their releases, but it would be nice to have people familiar with the domain do a smell test on the content. ~~~ vlunkr I don't think they said that it wasn't. ~~~ AsyncAwait I think he's saying that because the iPhone 7 was also water resistant, it cannot be that the new one is so _due to the new design_ , given the old one allowed for it too. ------ ProfessorLayton I've accepted that the headphone jack is never coming back no matter how much I'd like it to. I still can't accept that a company that is so focused on design has accepted the ever-growing camera protrusion in order to make the phone "thinner". My 6s has a scuffed camera ring, and rattles when used on a table, due to its inability to lay flat. ~~~ bhnmmhmd I guess they've also have accepted that people are going to use a cover anyway, so they don't bother. > My 6s has a scuffed camera ring, and rattles when used on a table, due to > its inability to lay flat. Exactly. This was my first impression when I saw that protruded camera on iPhone 6. ~~~ oneeyedpigeon I don't know if this differs from country to country, but the vast majority of iPhones I observe are not in a case — probably at least 90%. The design is a major selling point, so I'm not surprised most people don't want to use a case. ~~~ bhnmmhmd Most iPhones I see around are in a case. I personally don't like that, but if you're going to type on a flat table, you'd better use a case to _flatten_ the back of the iPhone, avoiding those rattlings. ------ einrealist I cannot get around the missing headphone jack. My headphones cost more than this new iPhone :( ~~~ plandis Is the DAC even good enough in the iPhone at that point? Even if you had a straight jack audiophile headphones are probably not getting much benefit over, say, Bose headphones are they? ~~~ adrr Does a DAC even matter? Would love to see blind test showing they make a difference. ~~~ anthonybsd Do headphones even matter after a certain price point? [http://asa.scitation.org/doi/10.1121/1.4984044](http://asa.scitation.org/doi/10.1121/1.4984044) ~~~ adrr Headphones sound different. Open air ones, closed, planar etc. Don't all DACs sound the same like amplifiers(unless its a tube)? ------ gbrown_ It seems like iPhone X would have been the perfect candidate to switch to USB-C. I had thought this would have been a long time coming given the USB-C only approach on MacBooks, yet it remains curiously absent. I really don't understand the fracture in the Apple ecosystem in regards to connectivity here. Can anyone enlighten me as to why Apple are still using the Lightening connector here? ~~~ bhnmmhmd Honestly, when Tim said "one more thing", I thought they're going to introduce a whole new line of products, like the Surface Phone we've heard rumors of. A device that only looks like a phone, but is in fact, a whole PC. iPhone X proved to be just another iPhone, nothing more. ~~~ theshrike79 There's a surprising amount of people who don't own a computer and use their phone as their only device. ------ iClaudiusX Probably not a good sign that FaceID failed on stage for Craig on his first try (had to use a passcode to log in) during the demo. ~~~ xtracerx I don't think it failed, it just said you had to use passcode on first login after restart, just like the touchID ~~~ vidoc It totally failed, those guys repeat those demos for months and there is absolutely no way the phone was in such a state. ~~~ Karunamon It looks like it unexpectedly rebooted prior to the demo as the message on the screen was something like "You must enter your passcode before using Face ID". Something similar comes up on reboot for touch ID users. You have to enter your passcode once on startup to decrypt the storage where the fingerprint data is stored. ------ rukittenme They put that stupid black thing at the top of the phone... ~~~ balls187 Unsure why this was downvoted, but that black bar at the top really ruins the "full screen" effect. ~~~ gschrader I hope by the time I upgrade they figure out how to get the screen overtop all the cameras. The black section looks horrible. ~~~ spike021 I think the original rumors said they were trying to make the cameras work beyond the glass/display but winded up not quite getting it to work, so they winded up with the notch this time. ------ singularity2001 "Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen." so they failed thus far ~~~ gordon_freeman No. What Ive means by that is they were bound by the constraints in technology so far so they could not achieve this vision so far. This is similar to what James Cameron said after filming 'Avatar' that his vision was to create such a film for more than a decade but slow technology advancement was the reason he could not make this film sooner. ~~~ colordrops Yes, they have failed so far. It's not all screen. It's got a small bezel and the sensor notch at the top. They will need to develop different materials to support a strong bezel-free phone and sensors that sit inside/behind the screen. They are not there yet. ~~~ cududa The line wasn't that they succeeded in the vision. He was laying out what the vision was. ------ IgorPartola Ugh. So wireless charging is great. I really wanted that because having tried some Qi cases and charging gear, it is pretty magical. And the decision to use a glass back makes sense there. However, Apple seems to just forget that people use their damn phones in cars. Waze is my GPS because no matter how much my car's built in GPS tries, it's not going to be as good as a thing connected to the internet. And in the car I hate to use the damn charger, so yay wireless charging right? Not so fast. Your choices are limited to a big clunky clamp style holder, or a little tiny magnetic holder that usually goes over one of the vents. Guess what? Magnetic holders don't work with wireless charging. Or rather they could, but the ones I've tried (available on Amazon) were complete shit that broke almost immediately. There are several options to fix this problem: a. Car manufacturers could include some kind of standard solution to this. At the least they could make a spot to easily mount a phone and make sure it doesn't obscure the driver's view too much while still being visible. Instead they keep insisting on adding bigger and bigger screens. Sometimes they'll go as far as adding a touch screen (looking at you Tesla) for no goddamn reason. Just give me a nice place to put an aftermarket phone cradle. Or at least don't add a 22" monitor where I want to put one. b. Apple and/or Samsung could lead the industry in making wirelessly charging magnetic car mounts. It's not impossible to do, and magnets would actually help align the phone so charging is efficient wrt the induction coil used. Sure it has a nice glass back, but who gives a crap if I now need to add an ugly rubber case with a 2.5" steel washer to it just to get it mounted? I get that Apple thinks CarPlay is their long term solution to this. But I think universal adoption by car manufacturers on that one is probably at least 5 years away. And even so, lifetime of older cars is like what 15-20 years? This is why we can't have nice things. ~~~ wrboyce BMW (at least, I can't speak for other car manufacturers) do have a wireless charging pad type thing inside the centre console. You do realise the phone can still be charged with a cable, right? ~~~ IgorPartola I know BMW has that. The point of their thing is that you can't use the phone while it's in there. They have "apps" that connect to their display. It's complete crap. Of course you can charge with a cable. But you shouldn't. Wireless only charging would be fantastic. They already got rid of the headphone jack. Why do we need a data port? Also, having a dedicated spot on the dashboard would mean not having to run dangling cables all over the place. ------ bsenftner Couple of issues here, speaking as a facial recognition developer, of arguably one of the leaders in the industry. 1) The use of 3D data is a step in the right direction, but to use it reliably it has to constantly re-calibrate to the individual(s) it is supposed to pass. This is very important and a constant issue if using a person's 3D depth data as their face for authentication. My employer pioneered the use of 3D data for facial recognition, via 3D reconstruction, before scanning and depth cameras were feasible. In doing so, we became aware of the significant variation an individual's 3D facial form undergoes during _any_ time period: different times of the day, yes, significant 3D facial form transformation; different days, definitely. Females significantly more, as they experience 3D form transformations simply from their menstrual cycle. Men who drink, less so than women, also gain significant facial form transformations on a weekly basis. Over the course of a season, everyone undergoes significant 3D form transitions, to the degree authentication is not reliable unless constant re- calibration occurs. Which introduces issues of system failure after indeterminate lapses of use, or sudden physical transformation - such as an accident, where your face is swollen. A person could be attacked, and their face altered to the degree their phone no longer authenticates. A person could fast for 2 days, not use their phone, and it will no longer pass. 2) They should be using multiple biometrics for authentication. The facial image in combination with the depth information, if treated separately with completely separate verification trained algorithms, only counts as two biometrics. Reliable authentication of a device attached to one's credit cards and finances requires a MINIMUM of 3 biometrics. They could solve that with the addition of Touch-ID or the addition of a pass code in addition to the face image and the face 3D depth data. But that borders on 'inconvenience', and I feel consumer pleasing stupidity. Sometimes being safe should require an extra step, simply so the consumer has the assurance their data is safe. It's like hearing the click as the lock on your door seals. Too automatic, and it's insecure because one never knows if it is active. However, ignoring the face as authentication, the iPhone just became a very slick 3D avatar creator. ~~~ mstolpm Ad 1): They briefly mentioned in the keynote that Face ID does indeed adapts to gradual changes like growing a beard. So, that form of recalibration seems to be part of the concept. ~~~ bsenftner It has to be. ------ bspn Face ID. I'd swear this was satire if I wasn't watching it with my own eyes. ~~~ oculusthrift what if it is dark? this guy even had issues just using it on stage ~~~ Shikadi It probably uses an IR light source to illuminate your face invisibly. Trouble on stage may have been from stage lighting drowning out the IR, though that parts just speculation. I didn't watch ~~~ theshrike79 It definitely uses IR, they said so. The failed attempt was caused by a rebooted phone, it wanted the passcode even before it saw his face. ~~~ Shikadi Right, but I was saying it probably uses an IR _source_ to illuminate your face in the dark. Then again, humans probably just emit enough IR without it. ------ ctdonath Projector-based 3D face recognition. Nifty. Shines an IR dot pattern onto the face, recognizes with that, works in the dark. Seems on continuously, wonder how much power draw. ~~~ sixothree Can be used by police to unlock your phone by pointing it at your face. ~~~ foodstances How is that any different than them forcing your finger onto a TouchID sensor? ~~~ daxorid It's not. Anybody who uses iPhone authentication methods other than a random six digit passcode with a ten-attempt wipe is asking for trouble. ------ alkonaut Can't help wondering what the next model will be called given what a dead end "X" is. After OS X they never went to 11. They codenamed the 10.N versions but it doesn't seem likely with a "iPhone X 10.2 mushroom badger"-type name. Best guess: they'll just call it the iPhone next year. Like some other products they'll just use the model year to distinguish. Guessing we won't even see the "iPhone XS", it'll just be "iPhone (2018)". ~~~ bhnmmhmd My question is: What are they going to call the normal iPhone after iPhone 9? iPhone 10? ~~~ MBCook My guess is that next year they drop the numbers and it just becomes the iPhone, the iPhone plus, and the iPhone X (or something similar). ------ the_duke Is it just me or does the big fat shiny frame on the iPhone 10 completely destroy it's aesthetic appeal and kills the 'infinity' effect? It looks really clunky to me. ~~~ theshrike79 "Looks clunky" and you've only seen some rendered images of it on screen :D ------ pilom I'm bothered by the move to TouchID and now FaceID from a "the government can make you unlock your phone" standpoint. Legally, the precedent is that the government can force you to use "something you are" like your face or fingerprint to unlock your phone. Currently there is at least some ambiguity to the precedents that say they can't require you to unlock your phone with "something you know" like a pin or password because of that could be construed as self-incrimination and forbidden by the bill of rights. If you're worried about law enforcement requiring you to unlock your phone DO NOT USE TOUCHID OR FACEID. ~~~ Y7ZCQtNo39 I'm pretty sure turning the device off and on requires a passcode. ~~~ mixmastamyk Not always possible if law enforcement is breathing down your neck. ~~~ MBCook New iOS feature: tap the side button 5 times to disable biometrics until a passcode is entered again. ~~~ mixmastamyk I saw that. Could still imagine not being able to do it in time. ~~~ MBCook True but at that point I think you'd have the same problems with touch ID. This really seems like the argument to not use biometrics at all, not a specific issue with Face ID. ~~~ mixmastamyk Agreed. I don't use it yet myself, so I'm good to go if I get tackled by security at the airport. ;) ------ asafira One of the most distinguishing features of the phone is the vertical orientation of the backside cameras --- anyone else realize this is likely because their forward facing sensor bar is likely in the way if the backside cameras were horizontal? A few other quick notes: 1) Those short x-ray shots of the iPhone camera assembly look impressive. I wonder how many components and extremely-fine-scale positioning have to go into the lens system (especially since they have to move! =) ) 2) The lack of TouchID seems like a hardware regression to me, but I'd feel more or less confident in that based on the actual experience of FaceID vs TouchID. On a separate note: the engineers working on that must be paid boatloads given how valuable they must be to the company, combining both machine learning + security knowledge. (Not easy to find people like that.) 3) The screen is nice. I don't understand why people are complaining about the screen extending "behind" the front-facing sensorbar, to be honest --- seems like a tiny, fixable detail in the scheme of things 4) I really think people will buy this phone for the camera, and not for many of the other features that were advertised. (not AR, not awesome graphics, not amazing aluminum and glass, etc.) 5) Anyone know what usage has been like for Force Touch? I always was under the impression that it wasn't that popular, but kudos to Apple for not dropping it and still believing in it. ~~~ wrboyce I can only speak of my own usage, but I use Force Touch a fair bit. The first use case that comes to mind (and one I use fairly often) is changing the torch brightness but the app shortcuts are handy too (also force push on a folder with notifications for quick access to the apps with notifications within it). ------ thegayngler I wasn't really excited about AI and ML until I saw this iPhone X and the stuff they were doing with the Animojis and the Facial Recognition Tech. Whew! I may have to study AI/ML ~~~ Eric_WVGG I think we're going to look back on that "animoji" bit as a turning point in modern entertainment. It's a silly, even dumb little feature, but look at what's really going on there: realtime near-Pixar-grade facial expressions. Someone's going to build a toolkit that lets kids make their own CG movies with friends acting out all the roles. That's gonna be _nuts_ and is just the start. ~~~ Splines It's a great achievement, and from the demo it looks like they're almost there (the framerate looked a little low and the characters were missing some subtleties of facial expression). I'll make a wild guess and say that in three years it's going to be nearly seamless. ------ tcfunk Suddenly a 128gb iPhone 6s for $549 sounds like a heck of a deal... ~~~ Kevin_S I actually think I might pick one up. In fact I may look for a 2 for 1 deal on the 6s. I'm headed back to Apple after having an Android ever since my IPhone 4, I'm just done with Android. I love my 6s work phone. I think I'll just be choosing between the 6s and a 7. ~~~ tcfunk Can I ask what your frustrations are with Android? I was actually thinking about going to the Google Pixel, but it's been a while since I've used an Android phone as my day-to-day device. ~~~ limeblack Here are the reasons I use my iPhone as my main device although I also own a Nexus. 1) Scroll to the top of the page [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvJDXTNblbQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvJDXTNblbQ) 2) Hold home button to activate Siri without unlocking phone. There is no Google Assintant button on most Android devices except the Samsung S8. I want to be able to activate with headphones on while in my pocket without having to count on Ok Google. 3) Album covers are displayed like this on Android. [https://img.gadgethacks.com/img/25/61/63562663618448/0/disab...](https://img.gadgethacks.com/img/25/61/63562663618448/0/disable- lock-screen-album-art-android-lollipop.w1456.jpg) While on my iPhone it looks like this [http://community.oppo.com/en/forum.php?mod=oppo_attachment_x...](http://community.oppo.com/en/forum.php?mod=oppo_attachment_xf&aid=35712) I want to see the entire album cover. 4) The battery life is better on my iPhone especially when listening to music. The apps are slighty better in my experience. Want an example? Spotify allows reordering of songs on iPhones but not Androids. ~~~ komali2 I've been considering making the switch as well, can you comment on a few things for me? 1\. "Play album x____" used to work in google uh... assistant? Now? Whatever it's called now. Now it doesn't. I remember it working on my iPhone 3gs waaaaay back. Does it still? How about "next song" and etc? 2\. How is Google app integration? Even if I make the switch, I'm not going to be using apple suite of calendars and whatnot, my company uses google suite, and I do not like spotify and will continue to prefer Google Play Music. Do those apps work well? (Calendar, Google Play Music, Inbox) 3\. You ever hear of someone with a google voice number successfully using an iphone for SMS? I have to use the Google Voice (good) or Hangouts (shit) app for texting, and I need a data connection to do it. I have my reasons for this, is it possible on an iphone ? ~~~ limeblack 1\. Play album "blank" works on my Nexus with 7.1 and iPhone but it isn't consistent(on the Nexus). If you the word has special characters like dashes or & it appears to play something that appears to be a radio. 2\. The Google Suite works well enough for me on both the iPhone and Nexus. To be fair I actually use Gmail and Google Calendar on my iPhone so there really isn't much of a switch. Google Play Music seems to work just as well on my Nexus as the iPhone in fact I sometimes play music off it in the car because it has a headphone jack. I have not encountered any Google Apps that work better on the Nexus vs iPhone except probably Google Photos because it won't sync in the background for the iPhone. 3\. The apps last time I used them were identical. I have had connectivity issues/dropped calls when using G Voice years ago. ~~~ komali2 Just an FYI on 3, if this was before hangouts, they abandoned Google voice as the texting app for "voice" customers, forcing us to use Hangouts. A couple months ago, they released a revamped "Voice" app to encourage Google voice users to switch to that over hangouts. Hangouts no longer supports non voice sms, and it's performance is absolute garbage compared to the vastly improved Voice app. ------ tabeth I wonder how well Face ID works with dark skinned people. Dead serious. Historically facial recognition has had a tough time with dark skinned folks. The inclusion of an IR camera should mitigate, if not solve this, but I'm curious to the accuracy in practice. ~~~ kanwisher It uses an IR camera, so it wouldn't matter the skin color. Also people's skin color changes over time so that wouldn't be a reliable system anyways ~~~ tabeth I'm aware that it uses an IR camera. What I'm curious about is what the accuracy rates are in practice for light vs dark skinned people for _Face ID_ in general. There's more to Face ID than just the type of camera they're using, I imagine. Also, what do you mean by _that wouldn 't be..._. What is "that?" ------ dvfjsdhgfv All this time I'm wondering... Why should I buy this phone? Honestly, there's noting convincing in it. ~~~ MBCook It's all about your priorities. For me? Having a phone is basically the same size but with a bigger screen is a great win, as is the improved contrast and visual quality. I can tell you TrueTone fantastic from using it on my iPad. I've wanted the camera system from the plus size phones but again I didn't want to phone that large. So to be able to get an improved version of that in a phone that's almost the same size? That's another big win. The rest is just bonus. ------ adamb_ Initial demo for Face ID failed -- Obviously less than ideal when trying to convince your audience that "it just works". ~~~ nixy It was because the phone had been rebooted, and iOS requires a passcode after a reboot. ~~~ kyriakos Still a PR fail though ~~~ MBCook These things happen in live demos. ~~~ kyriakos That's true but they don't usually happen to apple's. Apple takes great pride for their flawless presentations. ------ parthdesai $1320 CAD + tax for a phone. MacBook Air is cheaper than this. edit: meant CAD. ~~~ ihuman Where do you see $1320 + tax? The highest I can get it is $1,149.00 + tax for the 256GB version. ~~~ parthdesai i'm in Canada, should edit my comment. ------ sengork I find it fascinating how hard Apple make it to find the battery capacity (mAh or Wh) for iPhones. My understanding is that they do not want people to make a direct mAh capacity comparison to competing phones on the basis that iPhone can "squeeze out" more out of the smaller battery thanks to optimisations. ~~~ pcurve Yeah I noticed that... But I don't think that worked out too well for the new mac book with much smaller battery. ------ dangjc Why are people comfortable carrying a $1000 piece of equipment that can be dropped or stolen in an instant in their pocket? My Nexus6p takes great pictures, runs everything smoothly, and I don't have to freak out as much if the $350 suddenly vanishes. ~~~ dewey People also drive around in expensive cars on open roads with a lot distracted drivers. You an also get hit in an instant by one person not paying attention. You just have insurance for that, just like you have Apple Care or a similar insurance in case it happens. ~~~ funnelsgun Apple Care doesn't help if the phone is lost or stolen. However, I'm quite sure that the risk of damaging or losing a phone is much greater than the risk of crashing a car (at least in the UK and Western Europe). Hence, the price of phone insurance against the price of the phone is so much worse than the price of car insurance against the price of the car. Then, does someone become lower risk the more time and experience with a phone, like no claims, age and sex profiling on car insurance, or is the price of insurance the same whether the customer is a 25 or 50 adult male. ------ acconrad My god that is the longest product advertising page I have ever seen, and that includes those long form ads selling those gimmicky products. ~~~ EasyTiger_ I usually enjoy scrolling through Apple's product pages, they're often quite interesting design-wise. This one is way overdone. ~~~ cpeterso The page is so long that I didn't realize it existed. I saw the big "X" logo and assumed the page was still a "coming soon" teaser, so I closed the tab. Only after reading your comment did I realize I needed to scroll to see the content below the fold. :) ------ grenoire Woah, they skipped 9 just like Windows! ~~~ dmix Not necessarily, X will likely be a sub-line for iPhone like "Air" was for Macbook. See: OSX ~~~ ihuman I'd agree with you if they called it "Ex", but they're calling it "ten" ~~~ basch its called o s ten not o s ecs ------ tarcon Does the iPhone X Super Retina Display lack the 120hz refresh rate of the iPad Pro ProMotion Display? I hoped that 120hz would be the future because I really enjoy it and feel that animations on my iPhone 6 feel a bit jerky. ------ marcell FaceID seems pretty impressive, if it works as advertised, and it sounds like they've thought of a lot of edge cases. I can't get over the black bar at the top of iPhone X though. It looks like it has devil horns... ~~~ jordache You got all of that from a press event? reallY? ~~~ saagarjha Yes…they mentioned the tests they put it through. Different hairstyles, facial hair, etc. and it worked; they tried pictures and masks and made sure it didn't. ------ chorsestudios I am surprised they didn't change the included lighting <-> USB cable to USB C. Out of the box still incompatible with the MacBook Pro, and forced to use dongles/adapters. ~~~ sneak Why do you ever need to plug your iPhone into your mac? ~~~ chorsestudios To program iPhone apps. AFAIK, Until the recent Xcode beta you couldn't push code wirelessly to your iPhone, and even now the feature in the Xcode beta is pretty slow. Also I enjoy charging my iPhone with my macs. For a company that takes pride in seamless connectivity within their ecosystem I find it surprising that you cannot buy an iPhone + MacBook Pro and connect them without adapters. ~~~ sneak You absolutely can; just not with the cables they ship with. There are lightning to usb-c cables available from both Apple and others now. ------ hysan So a lot of times I show my phone to my friends when they ask about the time or if I get a quick message I want to show them on the notifications screen. With Face ID, would this trigger a wrong face recognition? If so, I can see this potentially locking me out as I rarely use my phone when I'm out with groups of people. Touch ID worked a lot better in terms of fine grain control, so this move to Face ID makes me wonder how many different edge cases were considered in this design decision. ------ TekMol That AI chip that runs 600 billion instructions per second - is that just for FaceID or can it be programmed? ~~~ fivesigma 600 billion instructions per second to show a poop emoji. ~~~ subie Incredible, just imagine what 2018 brings us. ~~~ the_duke A poop "animoji"? ------ KZeillmann How does the "Home" gesture work with games that require gestures? If someone has a game that requires flicking items upward from the bottom of the screen, will that now be impossible? I don't have an iPhone, but I'm assuming that games like Flippy Knife and Flip Master, currently #1 and #2 on the Play store, could run into issues. ~~~ joeld42 A swipe up that starts past the edge of the screen is already a different gesture than a regular swipe. It works the same way as the current phone (swipe up from bottom brings up the "control center"). ~~~ maratd Ok, so how do you bring up the control center now? ~~~ bdibs Scroll down from the upper right, near the battery/cell status icons. ------ Accacin So, I guess I'm the only one who thinks the notch looks great? Gives it a bit of character! I won't be buying one though, I'm hoping my iPhone 7 lasts at least another 2 or 3 years. ~~~ bvy I'm reminded of the spectrum of reactions to the new Prius design by the comments on the notch ------ wiz21c >>> Reveal your inner panda, pig, or robot. Ok, I stopped there. Now let's talk about the sociological impact of Apple. ~~~ floatboth "The Waldo Moment" (Black Mirror) comes to mind. Also speaking of Black Mirror, the first episode specifically, and the real world news story that reminded everyone of that episode… I'm sure David Cameron would love to unleash his inner pig :D ------ mholt I approve of Face ID more than Windows Hello, but I'm not convinced that neural networks are ready for security prime-time. Have we solved adversarial attacks yet? Were any of the masks they used in training painted with adversarial patterns? (The tech is cool, though. Actually amazing, that it fits on a phone.) ~~~ gshakir It was said that they worked with some best Hollywood make up artists that make masks. ~~~ ktta There is a different way to trick neural networks. [https://arxiv.org/abs/1412.1897](https://arxiv.org/abs/1412.1897) ------ goeric Face ID just failed in the on-stage demo. Oops :(. ~~~ saagarjha The phone had just been rebooted. That's why it asked for a passcode. ------ amrrs Guess, With Face ID, Apple making Fbi or any govt authority's 'Hey can you open this iPhone' case much much harder. Like iPad replaced a log of information display in Public places like airports, Face ID could one day become our entry pass in many places. But in the age of Trump, what if Equifax fate to apple? ~~~ dmayle With Face ID, all the government has to do is detain you. Apple warned against evil twins, but they should have warned against anyone living with you. Family members, kids, roommates. Face ID: Don't go to sleep ever again ~~~ osxrand On stage it was stated you needed to be alert and looking at the device, as in eyes open. Sleeping is fine I'd guess :) If you're worried about people living with you, I'd guess TouchID is already a huge issue. ------ pducks32 I thought Tim and the whole team did a great job presenting. And the whole company on every team did a fantastic job making every single piece easy to use. The iPhone X seems like a step forward in phones. I’ve used a number of androids and can say that the usability just isn’t there. ------ runesoerensen Also [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229900](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229900) ------ protomyth I fail to see how this Face ID will work in a North Dakota winter or on the ski slope. // And they had a demo failure on their new unlock and swipe up for home. ~~~ ianferrel Not like touchid worked through gloves either. Passcode. ~~~ protomyth removing my glove for a second is a lot easier than undoing the clothing covering my head ~~~ dkrich You're right, why didn't Apple product designers consider the massive segment of the population attempting to unlock their devices via facial recognition in the midst of a blizzard? ~~~ protomyth well, I'm pretty sure it won't work properly with a burqa or niqab either, but anyone who has an obstructed face is pretty much hosed. ------ boobsbr Seems like all these features were previously available on Android phone for (quite) some time: \- "bezel-less" display \- wireless charging \- no hardware buttons on the front \- facial recognition \- dual cameras Not to downplay the quality engineering of Apple, but this seems like a big "meh..." to me. A lot of hype for stuff that is commonplace. ~~~ masklinn I… don't disagree with the "meh" though software buttons and no buttons on the face are pretty different results. And dual camera was added on the 7+ last year (though it was hardly a first back then, IIRC LG and Huawei had dual- camera models in early '16). ~~~ boobsbr Wasn't there a phone with dual cameras for capturing stereographic pictures? ------ bennettfeely How does Face ID work with identical twins? ~~~ gshakir Schiller admits that 'evil twins' is a weak point. ~~~ jasonmaydie If evil twins are a weak point how came facemasks don't work? ~~~ jpalomaki I would imagine the facemasks where not accurate enough when it comes to the the 3d structure. Could be a different thing when somebody uses a quality 3d printer to print image that is based on detailed laser scan. ~~~ theshrike79 Not very practical when hacking a random person's iPhone. And this would never protect against a state-level actor anyway. ------ fuzzythinker Fun fact. The iPhone 7 "Overview" link[1] on their iPhone 7 page redirects to the iPhone X. Bug? Or a bit over pushing the new product? [1] [https://www.apple.com/iphone-7](https://www.apple.com/iphone-7) ~~~ tkxxx7 it redirects to /iphone, where the X is featured prominently, but you can reach them all. edit: so does /iphone-6, but not /iphone-6s.. ------ datalus Better coverage: [https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/12/live-coverage- iphone-x-...](https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/12/live-coverage-iphone-x- event/) ------ traviswingo Off topic. I posted this same link right when the page was live and it got flagged. This seems to be the only iPhone X link on HN now, but was posted 20 mins after mine. What caused mine to be flagged? Not mad, just curious :) ~~~ simantel The TechCrunch/Verge links were on the home page already, so it seems they decided to consolidate into one thread and change the link to the product page. ------ CreMindES For me, the tweet of the day [https://twitter.com/moia/status/907706685266915328](https://twitter.com/moia/status/907706685266915328) :) ------ skc I'm wondering if it's easier or harder for cops to forcefully unlock your phone using faceID or touchID ~~~ rosser Cuff someone, pull their phone out of their pocket, hold it in front of their face. "Is this your phone? Oh, it looks like it is..." How's that Fifth Amendment thing working out for you? EDIT: There's legal precedent that specifically says you can be compelled to unlock your phone with your fingerprint, and that's not "testimonial" (that is, your right against self-incrimination isn't in play). There is _zero_ reason to think FaceID will be treated any differently. ~~~ rpowers Couldn't they do the exact same thing with your fingerprint? ~~~ rosser Yes. FaceID just makes it easier, which was the OP's question. ------ matthberg It's interesting how Apple is moving away from being the first phone with a feature (face id, Samsung did that before, or oled displays that are edge to edge). I think the shift from that innovation is a maturing step, but also a sign that the company is aging poorly. They can no longer claim to be leading with creation, just with quality. More and more the focus in smartphone development, not just Apple, is on being the best of what currently exists instead of actually bringing groundbreaking technology to the table. ~~~ acchow Samsung does every feature first, and terribly. They hit check boxes. Apple executes. You could unlock Samsung phones with photographs [1] [1] [http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-galaxy- note-8-facial-...](http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-galaxy- note-8-facial-recognition-tricked-with-a-photo-2017-9) ~~~ FireBeyond And you could/can unlock TouchID with playdoh casts, even high res fingerprints printed on paper... so? ~~~ theshrike79 Printing someone's photo off Facebook is trivial. Lifting a working fingerprint and transferring it to a play-doh mold or a hi- res printer is a whole another beast. ~~~ vilmosi I thought it needed to be a high resolution photo? ~~~ theshrike79 For Samsung, nope. You can just open someone's profile picture on Facebook on your phone and show it to their phone and It'll unlock (or not, just like with their actual face). ------ yladiz I'm impressed with the presentation and looking forward to the iPhone X. Some features are gimmicky like the Animoji, but a lot of the new features and upgrades are really nice. That being said I have two main gripes. I know it kind of goes against how their Camera app and system works, but I really wish that Apple would (or will) enable RAW shooting from within the default Camera app. I use a separate app, besides for the special features like level and white balance adjustment, for the RAW shooting. I feel that it's kind of put there because it's available but they don't really care about it -- you can tell from the fact that the Photos app doesn't properly show RAW photos. It would be great if you could seamlessly take a photo and be able to take and export the RAW if you enabled a flag in the settings, just like how 4K was/is hidden behind a flag. The other gripe is now the control center is from the top, rather than the bottom. I use the control center often when controlling music and the flashlight and it makes it less usable for one hand. In fact, I'm wondering how the "swipe from the bottom" will work with apps that take over that gesture, because I run into a lot of issues with trying to open the control center but being annoyingly overridden by the current app. I'm hopeful but hesitant that Apple thought of this and worked out kinks regarding this. ------ cm2187 It's interesting that they are not retiring the 6s, which is now 3 generations behind. I am not the only one refusing to buy a smartphone which requires some dongle to listen to my music. ------ samrohn778 iPhone X has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained. What does this in disclaimer section means? ~~~ johnl1479 It hasn't been approved by the FCC for sale in the United States. ~~~ Markoff It hasn't been approved by the FCC for sale. FTFY FCC has no authority outside US ~~~ johnl1479 Yep, its a US-only restriction, hence my qualifier ------ Illniyar I know that a ton of people swear by the iPhone, and it will probably be a hit no matter what, but every new one that comes up all I can think of is how much good UX they sacrificed for the shake of having a better looking product. One button without an always on back button was already a turnoff for me, but no button at all? at least android has swipe from the bottom. FaceID instead of TouchId will remove a lot of use cases people got used to - no longer answering texts in meetings anyone? ~~~ gallerdude You can just type in your passcode, no? ------ pier25 I think those screen rounded corners and the cameras space at the top is one of the worst ideas Apple has ever had. When they showed a video playing in landscape I could only facepalm. ~~~ glasz remember, on the back there's a giant bump for the camera as well... ~~~ Rapzid That's a horrible eye-sore; probably would have been better to make the entire phone thicker. ------ nom So how secure is FaceID actually? It does a 3d scan like the Microsoft Kinect and maybe gathers some more light information in the infrared sprectrum, but that can easily be circumvented with advanced 3D printing. They even demonstrate that it recognizes you with facial modification like a new beard, a new haircut or a new pair of glasses. By bet it that this technology is totally overblown and circumvented quickly. ~~~ cududa With the Kinect "sign in to profile with your face" we made sure the person had a heartbeat - there's minute color fluctuations in your face that actually allow you to discern heart rate/ BPMs. That was using primesense. Apple bought primesense. I'm sure they're doing something similar ------ runesoerensen Product page now up: [https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/](https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/) Press release: [https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/09/the-future-is-here- ip...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/09/the-future-is-here-iphone-x/) ------ mrmondo I very much appreciate the OLED high contrast, wide colour display. I have yet not watched the release and read the technical details but I am more than slightly concerned about “Your face becomes your password”, while it’s obviously optional so security conscious people by no means have to use it, I’m not confident that it’s a sensible idea to promote the widespread use of what is known not to be a secure, private piece of information that you can change or choose not to use. However, in my opinion Apple is by far one of, it not the most security conscious large corporate manufacturer of hardware and software and generally tries to know as little about your personal data and promote encryption (FileVault, forced phone encryption etc) as much as possible while maintaining practical use for general public. So I am very interested to see what makes this so different from Samsung/Google’s failed and easily bypassed face unlocking they were very vocal about but ultimately was an embarrassing security and PR failure. ------ amluto The dimensions seem much more focused on aesthetics than functionality to me. Being mostly thin doesn't seem to buy much when the camera sticks out. Why not make it uniformly thick and increase the battery capacity? For those of us who enjoy one handed use, the SE still seems unmatched. ------ krishicks Has anyone seen anything about how to get it not to unlock automatically with your face when you look at it? I have bus times on my lock screen, one swipe to the left away. That seems to become obsolete if the phone automatically unlocks when I look at it. Additionally, swiping up from the bottom is the single least effective swipe for me. Pulling up Control Center fails for me more often than not, with the little "looking for me?" rectangular handle popping up on the bottom, and still it doesn't work well. I wonder also what this means for screenshots; with no Home Button to push along with the power button, what do you do? And what do those screenshots even look like, given the ears at the top of the display? ~~~ DennisAleynikov It actually only unlocks but does not go home until you do the new home button gesture which is swiping from the bottom. Nothing to be worried about ------ kevingrahl It was said Face ID is one in a million so that means ~7500 people can unlock my phone.. ~~~ function_seven My current PIN is 6 digits, so ~7500 can also unlock my phone on a random guess. Chances are the first five people to try will trigger the passcode though. ~~~ kevingrahl Haven't checked your math but that's random guesses on an insecure password and prevented by rate limiting, you can't just enter 7.5 billion passwords. Face recognition (other than Face ID I mean) is fairly advanced. Let's say a government wanted to unlock my phone they could search for similiar faces and just pay the person. Sure a lot of trouble for unlocking a phone and it's theoretical but it's still a flawed system in my opinion. ~~~ jpalomaki There's no perfect solution to this problem. Secure password is too clumsy to enter on phone many times per hour. Passcodes are easy to catch via shoulder surfing. ~~~ kevingrahl Sure, I see that but different users - different habits. I manage just fine with a 25+ character random alphanumerical password that I change at least every six months. I only use Touch ID when I'm home and am very aware when entering my password. In the end it's just a phone but I like to have it at somewhat secure. ------ elorant It's funny how the thread has three times more comments that votes. It's like everyone is in a rush to say something but they forget to upvote the story. Shouldn't upvoting be automatic when you comment in a thread? ~~~ larodi No, it shouldn't. Because you may still want to comment on a story, so to say a part of it stinks in a very bad way. Something that IMHO is what most commentators are doing here, and for reason. By no means am I going to up-vote the latest apple bullsht, but will happily take time to read through the stuff and even drop a line. ------ noncoml I don’t see anything justifying the price bump. ~~~ briandear Did you not see the array of cameras and sensors in the front? Or the longer battery life? Or the 4+2 core chip? Or the reengineered OLED? Were you actually sleeping during the announcement? Serious question. ~~~ noncoml >Did you not see the array of cameras and sensors in the front? If they don't add any value to me, I don't really care. > Or the longer battery life? Doesn't justify $300+ price bump > Or the 4+2 core chip? New chips come out every day and they are priced at the same price or lower than the older generation at the day it was introduced. > Or the reengineered OLED? You mean the one similar to Samsung S8? > Were you actually sleeping during the announcement? Serious question. Why do you have to be offensive? ~~~ omg_ketchup You asked what justified the price bump, and he told you. Whether you care/will use the things that are raising the price is irrelevant. If you have no need for those features, then buy the cheaper version. ~~~ noncoml The price of products is more a function of the perceived value for the consumer, than a sum of the cost of the components. Adding more expensive components to a phone, doesn't make its value go up if it doesn't add some extra functionality or durability or something. The array of components for FaceID are just replacing TouchID, so for the consumer the net value is 0. I don't care what they have to add to make it work, what matters to me as a consumer, is what value I get out of it. And at the moment it looks like a net of 0. You see why I say "I don't care"? ------ captainmuon ...and all I wonder is why they are skipping number 9? Are the negative connotations some culture? iPhone NEIN? With Windows 9, there was at least the explanation that software might confuse it with Windows 9x (which I didn't buy, since there is view api returning the version as a string, and Windows shims GetVersion if you don't declare compatibility anyway). More on topic, this looks nice, I think people will not be disappointed like they were with the MBPs. Can't wait to try it in a store (and probably can't afford it either...). Edit: no touch ID?? Might have spoken too quickly... ~~~ egypturnash Probably because it's been ten years since the original iPhone, and they feel this one's far enough from the original to merit the version bump. They may also be trying to indicate that they feel this iPhone is on a par with OSX for productivity or something. ~~~ Apocryphon It's more succinct than Tenth Anniversary iPhone Edition, I suppose. ------ aphextron I'm pretty impressed and blown away honestly that Apple chose to support Qi wireless charging over coming up with some proprietary nonsense. This might be the killer feature that finally gets me to upgrade. ~~~ sengork I am guessing this had something to do with Steve Jobs no longer being there. More freedom for choosing technologies. ~~~ sengork Would genuinely love to know the reasoning behind the negative votes. Steve's departure has certainly changed the company in the past. ~~~ grzm I suspect only because speculation alone is getting to be tiresome at this point. There are so many comments that say this or that about how Apple isn't the same because Steve Jobs isn't there. What _would_ be interesting is someone really digging into this, looking many different aspects of Apple since it's inception. Otherwise it's just not substantive and can come off as lazy at this point. Like I said, that's all speculation. From what I can tell based on the shade of gray of your comment, you received at most a couple of down votes. It's really hard to distinguish between something meaningful and noise here, particularly in a hot-topic thread like this one. At the end of the day, I think I'd just make a small mental note but otherwise just chalk it up as collateral damage in a heated thread. ~~~ sengork Interesting nevertheless, appreciate your reply. This is the first time Apple have given in to OLED displays and wireless charging (and a standardised one even) - both relatively old technologies [1] which were at their disposal during Steve's time. From what I've seen the corporate secrecy at Apple will make such conclusive investigation next to impossible. What I often think of is NeXT and Steve's return that saved Apple in the 1990s. [1] [http://www.gsmarena.com/qualcomm_taunts_apple_list_android_f...](http://www.gsmarena.com/qualcomm_taunts_apple_list_android_firsts- news-27223.php) ------ limeblack Features I'm curious how they work on the new iPhone. 1) Touch status bar to scroll to the top of the page(my favorite iPhone feature). 2) Locking the screen. I'm assuming the double tap and Siri don't interfere with this. ~~~ wrboyce To add to this, the "reachability" feature where I double-touch the home button to bring the top half of the screen into reach. ------ jasonjayr In the disclaimer: > iPhone X is splash, water, and dust resistant and was tested under > controlled laboratory conditions with a rating of IP67 under IEC standard > 60529. Splash, water, and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and > resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Do not attempt to > charge a wet iPhone; refer to the user guide for cleaning and drying > instructions. Liquid damage not covered under warranty. I wish they had enough confidence in their water resistance that they would cover water damage to some degree in the warranty ... ------ ransom1538 Hey question. Currently, if an officer has you under arrest they go through your phone. With a strong password, they tend to give up. With FaceID wont they just put it to your face and unlock it? ~~~ rezashirazian I think it won't unlock if you close your eyes. ~~~ romanovcode They can always beat you until you give your password. ------ crsmithdev So...wait, wasn't one of the biggest selling points of the (awful) Touch Bar on the latest MBP that it could use Touch ID? And a few months later they are moving away from that entirely? ~~~ smileysteve Reportedly, they couldn't get it to work through the display (bezel-less) (and they didn't put it on the back) ------ Mikho The notch is really not that good UX. All that elaborations and tricks to show it or hide, to fit in there notifications. If you go bezel-less, one of the best options now is Xiaomi Mi Mix 2. There are already reviews on YouTube. I'd say it is the best configuration yet for that type of a phone. Also, it's worth to consider that it is already the second iteration after the first Mi Mix. [http://www.mi.com/mix2/](http://www.mi.com/mix2/) ------ hungerstrike How do you get to the home screen? For instance if I'm using an app right now I hit the home button and it take me to my home screen with all of my app icons. How do I do this on the iPhone X? ~~~ duckarmada You swipe up from the bottom. ------ pow_pp_-1_v Being that it is the 10th anniversary, I was hoping they will come out with something ground-breaking. iPhone X seems like a good phone. But it's just a better iPhone 7. ------ patzol Although iPhone X is a beautiful device and depth camera will have many innovative applications, I'm so disappointed with iPhone 8(plus). There is barely any difference with iPhone 7(plus). As for wireless charging - seems like charging pad will be available only next year and you will have to spend extra money. Considering rumored problems with iPhone X production and starting shipping it beginning november I would expect their year to year sales go down. ------ RayVR Given how painfully slow wireless charging is, I'd prefer they go for the rapid charging feature. May not be as sexy but it's way more useful. ~~~ dolguldur Fast charging was listed as a feature ~~~ ianburrell From the footnote, fast charging works with the USB-C chargers. That means it is possible it supports USB-PD like the iPad Pro. It does mean that fast charging requires the Apple 29W charger. But should also work with any USB-C charger. ------ Taniwha I'm going to train future face recognition phone to only work if I close one eye and stick my tongue out ... the border guards will never guess ------ mrfusion If it's using steel does that mean it will be magnetnetic? That would be neat to attach it to my wall. And it would open up a lot of options for car holders. ~~~ komali2 I grew up in a time when "Magnets + Screens = NO! BAD!" Is this not the case anymore? Like, I get freaked out when my girlfriend attaches her magnetized Surface Pro pen to her SP4. Even the macbook magnetized chargers freak me out. Is this just poorly learned behavior that's no longer relevant? ------ swsh By not marketing it as a replacement for the 7, Apple has managed to significantly bump the price of the device with barely anyone the wiser. Anyone hazard a guess at the increase in apples profit margin on the X. The price appears to have gone up significantly, for a comparatively small increase in BOM cost. Even if you question their design decisions, it's hard to fault their product strategy ------ mrsmee89 Perhaps the UX needs to be felt in person but it feels like a way worse UX than before. It seems Apple is losing sight of the question which IMO should define the choices we make when it comes to technology. Does it make peoples lives better? I don't see how this phone does. It feels like apple made something for the purpose of making people want it. It's un-apple like. ------ deedubaya Say what you want about practicality, the facial tracking on this is pretty impressive..... aaannnd Apple uses it to give us the Poop Animoji. ------ mrfusion How do you check notifications with your face? Or switch songs while jogging? Seems like it would unlock as soon as you look at it? ~~~ ppeetteerr You can lift it or tap the screen to show the locked screen. Your face will only unlock the device, it will not bring up the home screen. ------ wffurr Seems crazy that they have no less than eight models of iPhone available at once: [https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/) Why are the 6S and 6S Plus still there? Why no love for the iPhone SE? It's now two entire generations of processor behind. ------ nunez Re: black bar. For what it's worth, folks that reviewed the Essential Phone said that the notch on the top does "go away" after using it for a few days. What I am more disappointed about is Apple not going with a curved display. It looks _amazing_ on the S8 and taking it edge to edge would have made for an incredible bezel-less illusion. ------ Karunamon I really don't see the extra $300 justification between this and the regular iPhone 8. A slightly better screen and better camera with otherwise similar specs. Edge to edge and face scanning emojis are _neat_ , but I just can't justify that kind of spend for it. That, and I'm not all that jazzed about Face ID. Seems less secure than touch. ~~~ jamesrcole > between this and the regular iPhone 8. A slightly better screen ... with > otherwise similar specs The screen is a fair bit larger ~~~ Karunamon Not appreciably more than the 7+ [https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/06/iphone-8-compared-to- iphone-7...](https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/06/iphone-8-compared-to- iphone-7-plus/) More PPI sure, but I think we reached the point of diminishing returns a while ago. (Ignore the headline - the opening image is an X set next to a 7+) ~~~ jamesrcole I was responding to someone comparing it to the standard model, not the plus models. See the text I quoted, and see their original comment. ------ jnwatson Wouldn't Face ID allow a stolen phone to be easily unlocked? Just put the stolen phone in a different container (with a hole for the camera/sensors) and point it at the victim. My daughter likes to "steal" my phone to play games on it. With touch ID, she can't. She wouldn't have a problem if the phone has Face ID. ~~~ nardi They said during the announcement that you have to be looking at the phone for it to unlock. ~~~ dullgiulio Then you put in a container with something small written on it ;) ------ dylan-m So does it bug anyone else that the status bar around the notch looks misaligned? The rounded corners make me feel think it's sticking out past the bottom of the notch, and there's this huge empty space above it. Especially weird with the clock. Maybe it's one of those things that looks better in person. ------ VeejayRampay I don't understand why the website keeps repeating "it's all screen" even though the phone is not all screen. I own a entry-level Motorola G5S, never owned a Samsung before so not fanboying here, but their phones strike me more as "all screen" than this iPhone X. Am I missing something? ------ Bogi30 Price of this phone wtf is this in my country cost 1200 euro this cheaper version :/ [http://blendberg.com/pl/oferta-bazy-danych-gotowe-bazy- danyc...](http://blendberg.com/pl/oferta-bazy-danych-gotowe-bazy-danych-baza- firm-europejskich-dania) ------ raesene9 I do hope Apple have got this facial recognition stuff right, but personally I'm skeptical that it'll be better than TouchID. For me, from reading previously leaks, this feels like a compromise where design (we want a phone that's all screen) wins out over usuability (TouchID is great for usuable security) ------ kristjankalm > The most powerful and smartest chip ever in a smartphone, with a neural > engine that’s capable of up to 600 billion operations per second. sorry but "neural engine" is just too funny. i mean there's normal levels of bullshit bingo and then there's branding your chip "neural engine". ------ Viper007Bond Bummer about the size. The Plus is a monster to me and I prefer the pocket- happy size of my regular 6. ------ makecheck I kind of wish the "home screen line" at the bottom was a big long thick rounded line to mirror the notch on top. That would make the notch a lot less jarring. In the screenshots the "normal" UI seems to never use the bottom space anyway. ------ maruhan2 Rather off-topic question. How do you make an animation via scrolling like their "X"? ~~~ syspec Scale an element up (the X), while scaling another down (the device). Place both inside a position fixed/sticky container and interpolate between scaleStart scaleEnd as a ratio of how much has scrolled. More to it than that from what I see here, but that will get you started ------ johnward As an Android user I'm still kind of interested in this phone. One thing that bothers me on most phones is the camera sticking out the back. It ends up being the point of contact to every surface you sit it on and sometimes the camera glass breaks. ------ mementomori Someone can drug me and hold the phone in front of my unconscious face to access all my data? ~~~ artursapek Same goes for your fingerprint, surely? ~~~ subhero or for for anything, really? (mandatory [https://xkcd.com/538/](https://xkcd.com/538/)) ------ yellowapple Didn't we already learn 20 years ago that if an Apple product ends in an X, virtually nobody will actually say it like the X is a Roman numeral? Or am I a transplant from that weird parallel universe with "Mack Oh Ess Ecks" and the Berenstein Bears? ------ amelius Why don't we have unlock you phone with your watch? Or unlock a desktop with your watch? Or enter a password on a website with your watch? Sounds more useful and secure to me than any fingerprint/facial scanner. And it allows Apple to sell more watches. ~~~ mattacular Wouldn't that involve implementing some sort of remote unlocking scheme which is basically what Apple publicly fought/denied the FBI? ------ nojvek I'm just excited the GPU'S are getting faster in a mobile device. I really wanted Apple to have more pixel density in their iPhone X. 2000+ do would mean that we can wear an iPhone as a head set and have a descent VR experience. ------ Jyaif I love how for their demo they selected videos where it was dark where the screen bump is. ------ LouisSayers And in future news: "Celebrity gets iPhone stolen. Naked photos unlocked at wax museum." :D ------ B1FF_PSUVM I'm still sorry for the things we'll be missing with the loss of Metro Design, now lying in its deathbed in Windows 10 Mobile. Wish Apple had the balls to just plain steal it, the iPhone home screen nowadays seems from last century. ------ callesgg That is some extraordinary marketing. I just want it. But i know i have absolutely no need for it. ------ rpowers So many people pre-complaining about some actually neat stuff. The screen looks fine, stoked about the HDR10. Portraits will looks really nice. Wireless charging is a big plus. I think this will be a great phone. ------ dopamean I turned off the stream because I needed to get back to work. Did they say anything about security for FaceID? Such as where the data about your face is stored. Or what about just holding up a photo of someone? ~~~ SOLAR_FIELDS It's all stored locally on the phone. I don't think they mentioned whether there will still be a "panic" button which forces passcode unlock. ~~~ theshrike79 The "panic" is an iOS 11 feature, not phone specific in any way. ------ alex_duf The OLED screen and the gesture based UI makes me think about the Nokia N9. Loved that phone. ------ myrandomcomment Meh. I still have a 6P. I will pick up used 7 now (as there is always a ton for sale after a new iPhone) so I can use the NFC for the Tokyo subway. The face thing to unlock to pay is a non-starter for me. ------ riazrizvi It would be awesome if they could use the facial recognition feature to eliminate the problem with spurious landscape/portrait mode switches when you are lying in bed, reading the phone at an angle. ------ darrmit Even prior to the leak it seemed (to me) like it would be hard to improve on the 6s/7, and the keynote confirmed it. From wireless charging to FaceID it just feels like a bunch of incremental, gimmick-y changes. ~~~ alkonaut The screen is the big deal. It's quite a lot better. Oled. Ridiculous dpi. But the problem with that is that the regular iPhone screen is unbelievably good already. Why would people pay so much for the improvement? ------ banach I was surprised not to see a reconstruction of your own face as one of the animoji options. More than a novelty, it could be very valuable possession to a family member, after someone passes away. ------ sigjuice They already butchered the MacBook Pro with the TouchBar last year. And all for a 30 second demo during the keynote. Here's hoping that FaceID actually works and isn't FacePalmID :/ ------ danijelb FaceID shows the difference between Apple and other smartphone manufacturers. Apple doesn't release features until they are absolutely sure they can engineer them to work perfectly. ~~~ NicoJuicy And it failed in the demo... ~~~ danijelb Well, the beauty of presentations... Touch ID also fails sometimes. The important thing is that your finger can't unlock my phone. ------ halfnibble Swipe gestures, a steel frame, and a higher ppi screen. It sounds like the iPhone may have finally caught up with my BlackBerry Passport SE. Maybe I'll give the iPhoneX a try. ~~~ kk_cz Who knows, maybe in few years we'll have the "first ever" smartphone with physical keyboard ------ Tomte First thought: how well can they discern in the mail app whether I wanted to scroll down or go to the home screen? I probably have to swipe carefully from the very bottom or stay away from the bottom? ~~~ hbosch The bar is as low as today's iPhone home button. I have a strong feeling you will hardly ever reach it by accident, considering scrolling from a point that low is unnatural and uncomfortable. Also, there is always a big obvious bar down there. ------ nodesocket Do we have any idea what carriers like Verizon will charge to lease the X? I am currently paying $109 all in for 4GB of data and unlimited calls and txt. Phone is iPhone 7 128GB. ------ syntaxing I'm pretty curious about the new AI chip that Apple might put in their phone. If the integration with Core ML works well, it might lead to a series of new interesting apps. ------ humbleMouse Another reason to keep using my iphone-5s. New phones are way too big, and I love the home button. If I was forced to upgrade I'd get the iphone 7 se (the mini one) ~~~ listic It's rather the 6s one. Still, I hope they will upgrade it in future. Also, I'm sure they will release scaled-down version of the X in time; it's just easier/cheaper for them to release a bigger iPhone first. ------ jtl999 I hope the OLED display used in the iPhone X doesn't use PWM, unlike Samsung. LG OLED TV's seem nice as well, although I haven't looked at them for a long period of time. ~~~ kasabali Good luck with that considering they're using Samsung panels. ------ zeep "Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen" so the iPhone 2x will have no speaker or camera in the front... or they will be behind the screen. ------ RayVR I can't wait for someone to pick up my phone, point it at my face and have it unlock. Hope it has a "User sleeping, can't unlock" feature. ~~~ mbroncano During the keynote they mentioned this particular case, and they claimed it does have such a feature. ------ ocdtrekkie The Animoji thing is surprisingly neat. I was all prepped to make fun of it when they put the name on the screen, but that's just... really really neat. ~~~ sprite Seems completely useless to me. Apple has lost it's focus. I'm thinking of switching to Android for the first time since iPhone 3G. The only reason I'm still on iOS is for iMessage/Facetime. ~~~ osxrand I feel that Apple knows exactly what it's doing with this feature. There is a strong pull with iMessage for 15-25 year olds in schools, the kind of market something like this will go over pretty well with and potentially create more lock in to their message platform. Along with all the other photo apps that will take advantage of this tech. You could even just look at the Animoji as a tech preview for all the other devs. ~~~ christoph Exactly. The Snapchat demo was evidence of how this will be opened up to developers. The new photo features clearly showed how it will be used by the Instagram crowd as well. ------ jimbert How do Muslim women that cover their faces use this phone? ~~~ umanwizard You don't have to turn FaceID on -- you can continue using a normal passcode. ------ pi-rat So, how do you snap a screenshot without the home button? ~~~ Tempest1981 [https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/298203/how-to- take...](https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/298203/how-to-take-a- screenshot-on-iphone-x) ------ martijn_himself I'm more than happy to pay £1k for the iPhone X if it docks and I'm able to use it as a Mac Mini running MacOS. It should be powerful enough. ------ forgot-my-pw What exactly is a bionic chip? Is it just the codename? ~~~ scarlac It's a CPU+GPU+ML-optimized chip. I'd say "Bionic" is a bit of a stretch from the marketing department but it's likely a reference to the neural network capabilities which are modeled after biology. ------ oliv__ So with FaceId being able to unlock my phone at any time, does that mean it will be filming everything, all the time, waiting to detect a face? ------ liberte82 I can already tell I'm soon going to be very tired of the word _notch_. It's starting to feel like the tartlets from Seinfeld. ------ brailsafe Anyone else experience major issues with the website? It's inscrutable to me with the scroll based parallax nonsense breaking horribly. ------ amelius It seems the camera sticks out at the back. This would mean it's not possible to put the phone stably on a flat surface. Is this true? ------ mads .. ~~~ scarlac Fellow Scandinavian here. Apple has talked a lot about privacy and security in last couple of years, both on stage and off stage. I'd even go as far ans say it's probably one of the topics they've been most vocal about off-stage. What's your specific privacy concern in relation to the presentation given? ------ LeicaLatte The only way to stop someone from unlocking your device by just pointing it at your face is to close your eyes. Dealbreaker. ------ perseusprime11 How many folks thought the bezel up top is weird? They should have captured the screen space for something else. ------ heliumcraft What's the point of the iPhone 8? It's essentially an upgrade to the iphone 7S and that's all. ~~~ xxkylexx It's Apple's way of transitioning to a higher price point on their phones. Now they have the iPhone X at $1000 but oh, there's still have this iPhone 8 at the lower price point... I'm betting next year there is no more lower price point and the new standard is $1000 phones. ------ dade_ Finally, wireless charging, they even support standard Qi, but how are they making Qi work like a power mat? ~~~ bdcravens I thought they said it wasn't a standard, but they are working to eventually add it to Qi ------ tanilama No desire to buy one. Even it is well within my range of purchase power, this shit is expensive as hell. ------ Dravidian People who use 1000$ iPhoneX on office desk need another 400$ apple Watch to check for notifications. ------ iamwil Just checking, this isn't with a see-through glass, right? The phone isn't translucent. ~~~ kayoone No, A See-through phone is something Robert Scoble predicted since last year, but i never bought his hype and even the AR stuff is not really ground breaking. ~~~ nicky0 Did he also predict see-through batteries and chips? ------ masterleep I'd pay $200 to get rid of the haptic home button. Always hated the feel of that thing. ------ gigatexal what a whole lot of meh regarding the Iphone X. The watch series 3 though, that I am getting. ------ billconan Does anybody know if there is an api to access the raw depth data of the truedepth camera? ------ d--b Everybody is discussing the features like they've already bought it. But I find that literally none of the features of the X make sense over the 7, or the 6 even. Maybe a lot of people said this before but to me that's it. The iPhone X event should be remembered as the event when Apple jumped the shark. ~~~ valine The A11 is a massive leap forward over the 6 and 7, that alone is a pretty big reason to upgrade. ------ rurban Did they botch the Mac Air upgrade similar to the Pro now? Or is it still usable? ------ jlarocco Meh. I'm surprised they bumped the version to "X" for this. Not every release can be amazing, but this is just an incremental hardware upgrade with some features taken out. Meanwhile, they haven't fixed any of the most infuriating and annoying iOS bugs, and don't seem to have any plans to do so... ------ hatcherdogg Great concept. I'll take the revised XS later, and an 8 now. ------ drama-queen Telescreen X! Now with an improved backdoor!! Buy now!!! ------ limaoscarjuliet Does face recognition mean my twin brother can use my phone to pay for his beer? BTW, wondering how fast until there is "3D print you GF face so you can unlock her phone" service. I see Ali Express business booming. ~~~ ericlewis they explicitly talk about how they worked with extremely detailed mask makers to ensure that sort of thing doesn't happen. ------ nadim Huge shout out to RZA, for making it into that Keynote. ------ miguelrochefort iPhone X starts at $1,516.85 in Canada (after taxes)... ------ mtgx Did the FaceID just fail on stage for Craig Federighi? ~~~ justusthane No, it didn't. The screen said "Enter PIN to enable Face ID." The phone had been rebooted, and a password is required first. Same as TouchID. He failed, FaceID did not. ------ perseusprime11 They should rename this to iPhone N (N for Notch). ------ retox No information about RAM or CPU speed/cores? ------ amelius > Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen. > (...) Say hello to the future. Haven't we seen such phones from other companies already a thousand times over? ------ trhway I think Jobs would be throwing it into aquarium until the black notch bar is removed. After looking at those photos the notch is pain in the eyes and pure abomination. ------ sarang23592 Will iphone X have passcode along with FaceId ~~~ singularity2001 yes ------ nnd With all that hype building up, I was hoping they would introduce something less underwhelming than an iPhone without a home button like you know... a new wearable. ~~~ Tempest1981 New watch with cellular: [https://www.apple.com/apple-watch- series-3/](https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-series-3/) ------ snowpanda Face ID seems like a great way to build a global database of people's faces. Not saying they will, but if they wanted to, that would be the way to do it. ~~~ theshrike79 Apple isn't Google, they have no interest in having a global fingerprint or face database. Everything is done on device and the device is sealed tight enough to make hacking impractical for everyone except for state level actors. ------ aeleos Lol the first Face ID demo had some issues ~~~ saagarjha The phone had been rebooted and thus required a passcode to unlock. ------ TekMol Both the 8 and the X have the pressure sensitivity "3D Touch". Is that actually useful? To the HN users with iPhones: Do you use it? ~~~ jitl 3D Touch (before called Force Touch) has been in Apple products since 2014. I use it all the time on iPhone 7S, it's a regular part of interacting with the operating system: \- force touch an image to view fullscreen \- force touch app icons to open a quick menu \- force touch buttons in Control Center to open a menu It's like a quicker touch-and-hold action in other operating systems, although sometimes there's also a touch-and-hold action in iOS which can be annoying. ------ LeicaLatte Expecting the iPhone X to be delayed beyond November. The phone isn't cooked enough yet and I think they have announced it prematurely. ------ SadWebDeveloper Face ID bypass will sure be available Nov 4-5 Also wonder if this "security feature" is NSA-approved, m pretty sure it is. ------ Multicomp I can't wait to see the Youtube videos of people 'taking a selfie' just to unlock their iPhones ------ mzzter Wow, it's not aluminum.. ------ bluetomcat Infrared rays striking your eyes and face each time you look at your phone? Health implications? ~~~ nardi Infrared light is all around you all the time. I'd assume the intensity levels here are extremely safe. ------ fokinsean But where's iphone 9 ~~~ jhatax Base-8 encoding: ... 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, ... :-) ~~~ dolguldur That would be base-9 though ------ alexnewman Welp staying with my SE ------ tinhangliu Am I the only person not excited about the iPhone since the release of the 4s? ~~~ randomfinn Considering their market share, a lot of people have never been excited about them. I think the iPhone excitement is mostly a US thing. For a lot of people here, it was the first smartphone they saw - or even their first mobile device. It's hard to get excited about iPhones when you're used to more modern technology. ------ ricokatayama Rounded Corners, Rounded Corners Everywhere! Let's watch Spider-Man with a rounded screen ------ oregondan That's funny, Apple pulled a Microsoft and skipped 9 ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ ------ ratsz geometric data is a username, not a password ------ thomastjeffery So a neutered 2K screen, and an x% faster APU... How is this worth over $999? ------ Exuma What do you do if you want to go to a costume party? Lol ------ nickpp Is it Pentile?! ------ drcongo Can we call that notch what it is please, a monobrow. ------ aphextron Back glass... ------ jorgemf when the iPhone X SE? ~~~ fenwick67 Iphone X One SE Plus ~~~ jorgemf No plus, minus please. I am tired of big phones ------ lightedman Goodbye privacy? A phone that can be unlocked with your face = easy enough for cops to snoop on you. No need for a password, just taking your phone and pointing it at your face unlocks it. ~~~ theshrike79 Or just pointing your finger at the sensor unlocks it. Same difference. Or you can use the "panic" mode on iOS11 and force it to ask for a passcode. ~~~ lightedman Most regular users of iOS products know very little about these kinds of features, they just enable these things without thinking, then I have to explain why its bad. I have this exact kind of talk every other day on a regular basis. ~~~ lightedman Looks like the truth hurt the majority of you too much. This is fact in the life of an electronics repair tech, so much so that it should be written as a law. Most users have ZERO CLUE. They don't read a manual. They piddle around until they get what they want working and tend to stop there, and go no further. Oh, and panic mode? Cop sees you doing that, you've obviously got something to hide and they can act then and there. Not a very smart move. This is reality. You may not like it, but you're part of the reason it is what it is. ------ widowlark This just in: Apple releases the Samsung Galaxy S8, calls it an iPhone ~~~ Jeremy1026 Would you say the same thing in reverse if Apple's event was a month earlier? These things have been in work for more than the past month. ~~~ zuminator What difference does a month make? The S8's been out since April. ~~~ Jeremy1026 Apologies, did a quick google for Galaxy S8 Announcement and saw August 7th, didn't realize that was for the S8 Active. ------ miguelrochefort \- Ugly notch \- No USB-C \- Gimmicky features \- Protruding camera \- $999 ~~~ LoSboccacc I really don't get the notches. They're extra ugly, they put the sensor in a vulnerable position and are basically there so that they can claim a thinner phone forcing user to fatten it again with ugly plastic cases just to have the phone rest flat ------ gshakir Face ID = Where the camera watches you all the time. ------ gshakir Apple Watch is the new iPhone. The iPhone is becoming a home computer. Watch it. ~~~ saagarjha I'd say iPad is Apple's vision for the home computer. ------ HugoDaniel Does it mean that the next version will be called Iphony ? ~~~ alfonsodev they can also go XL, XXL, XXXL and so on :p ~~~ HugoDaniel or even XI XII XII. Hail caesar or something. ------ madshiva $ 1200 for a brick and people still buy this crap phone. All people who buy this phone should be ashamed. Stop wasting the earth. Thanks. ------ pluma Interesting how they decided to already publish the article although they have nothing more than the teaser but no actual content. > So what does a decade of iPhone innovation look like? > _Developing… Please refresh for updates._ ------ sccxy Keynote is quite boring after so many leaks. ------ xvolter Are they aware that "Surgical‑grade stainless steel" means extremely cheap? Surgical‑grade stainless steel is designed to be single-use. They advertise their phone as having steel that is good enough to use once? ~~~ tener Aren't surgery tools supposed to last years of use? ~~~ kuschku Sterilizing surgical tools is extremely expensive, and not good enough. You can sterilize some tools, for some purposes, but usually that doesn’t remove all contaminants. So surgical tools are instead produced for single time use, and after that recycled, to ensure they’re always sterile. EDIT: For example, with scalpels, you can remove and replace the blade, and do exactly that after every use. Removing and replacing the blade looks like this: [https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg- dc86caa627022bbfb7e6b4...](https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg- dc86caa627022bbfb7e6b4a356ccba18-c) ~~~ monocasa What? Can't you just throw them in an autoclave? ~~~ kuschku You can remove some contaminants in an autoclave, but others surprisingly survive, and would contaminate the next patient. So stuff like scalpels, for example, is recycled after every single use. Even such simple things as prions actually already require far more complicated autoclaves than you’d expect. ~~~ CydeWeys I would expect prions to be harder to sterilize than bacteria, actually. Prions aren't even alive. ~~~ ciniglio They are much harder to sterilize, and autoclaves don't work. Ideally you'd dispose all tools exposed to prions, but if that's infeasible, the CDC recommends an autoclave in a bath of NaOH. [https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cjd/infection- control.html](https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cjd/infection-control.html) ------ veeragoni The phone is definitely 2017. But I would like to condemn those who say its futuristic. Whats so futuristic about it?! is it foldable? Is it wearable? Does it generate holographic images, Does it at least project to wall for larger display? Does the battery lasts a week? They could have placed a touchID on the back(well, may be next iPhone). You might say, I am asking way too much in 2017. Yes I am! Thats why its not futuristic. ------ blaincate Just Realized : Face recognition unlock : Biggest Security Scare \- Case 1 : Imagine crossing security check or border crossing. Guards just take your phone and point it to you : UNLOCKED . No need to resis to give passwd \- Case 2 : drug the activist and point unconscious victim ! Voila ! \- Case 3 : Steal the phone, and change the cover and flash it in front of the real owner ! could go on and on ... ~~~ kevinchen All these problems exist with fingerprints too. At least Face ID requires you to look at the phone before it unlocks. ------ potrebitel Developing… Please refresh for updates. Obviously the "hype" for a new iphone is still up & running since there is a thread for not yet officially announced device... ~~~ thsowers > Obviously the "hype" for a new iphone is still up & running since there is a > thread for not yet officially announced device... Doesn't Apple announcing it at their "Special Event" count as an officially announced device? ~~~ potrebitel It does, but at the moment the post was put online, there is nothing official, except the name. Hence "this is iphone X" looks like a placeholder for a future event. "Please refresh for updates" Besides there is a new thread ( [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229902](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229902) ) for the same subject - nothing offcially started, yet several threads for it. Anyway, it will be fun to see if this one will hit 1000+ comments :) ------ AndrewKemendo I really wanted to see this turn the iPhone X into the primary computer for all things - replace the MBP and the iPad line. Dock to screen/keyboard etc... so that everything is just running off of the phone. That would be a perfect jump off point to AR glasses with the phone as the computing engine in 2020. It would let Apple re-focus, kill a bunch of product lines and swallow the market with a singular device + robust peripheral market. ------ 45h34jh53k4j I am not interested in the X model without TouchID. FaceID provides a less secure authentication method than TouchID. Sleeping victims * Attacker holds the phone to your face Its not as simple as using the 'wrong finger'. You only have one face. This is awful, Apple. What were you thinking? ~~~ Flockster You have to actively look at the display to unlock it. So sleeping wouldn't work. ~~~ josefresco What about if you're dead? Would law enforcement, medics and/or family be able to use your (recently) deceased face to unlock? Would that be legal?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Global warming of 1.5 °C: An IPCC special report - wewake https://www.ipcc.ch/report/sr15/ ====== wewake It's main highlight - global warming must be limited to 1.5°C rather than the previously agreed 2°C to avoid extreme heat, drought, floods and poverty around the world. This is especially alarming given that US (one of the major contributor to annual CO2 emissions) withdrew from Paris agreement in July 2017. ~~~ wewake Also, according to the report, following present trends the 1.5°C cap could be reached as early as 2030. It has been estimated that CO2 emissions would have to drop by 45 percent from 2010 levels by 2030. Needless to say, these difficult targets can't be met without cooperation between governments and technological innovations.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
What happened to Tim Hortons? The downfall of Canada's brand - pseudolus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/09/tim-hortons-canada-coffee-brand-popularity-downfall ====== throwaway5752 Didn't read the article, and this post is likely to slide off into obscurity, but here's what happened: they combined with Burger King into Restaurant Brands Int'l ("QSR" is the stock symbol) which is controlled by the 3G Capital. 3G Capital famously cuts spending/production costs to increase margins. They are unimaginative accounting hacks who kill business cultures, which was critical to Tim Horton's popularity (sponsoring junior hockey, fundraising, etc). ------ taylodl I've never understood the infatuation with Tim Horton's. Their coffee is okay and their donuts are okay. Not bad, just okay. Not enough to rave about. Their Tim Bits are pretty good, though. That's what folks around here like to get.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
What We Learned from Pivoting into a DTC Business in Two Weeks - torinrittenberg https://www.branchfurniture.com/blogs/turn-key/pivoting-to-a-d2c-company ====== startupinmotion branding and quality look on point. wish there were some more options ------ jasonbate44 this is impressive ~~~ torinrittenberg thanks jason - been a long few weeks.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How to Get Lucky - ericvanular https://ericvanular.com/how-to-get-lucky/ ====== swellconstell In my experience, getting repeatedly lucky seems to be more a function of how often you put yourself out there rather than anything else	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Excel incorrectly assumes that the year 1900 is a leap year - pcr910303 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office/troubleshoot/excel/wrongly-assumes-1900-is-leap-year ====== sloaken This was to be compatible with the spreadsheet program called Lotus 123. At the time microsoft made excel, Lotus was very popular. As such compatibility was essential. Lotus 123 made the mistake.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: github-mirror, syncs every repo in an org. locally for faster deploys - mmelin https://pypi.python.org/pypi/githubmirror ====== Tobu I like github-backup[1], which I think does something slightly different; it mirrors github issues and the rest of github's non-git metadata. [1] [https://github.com/joeyh/github-backup](https://github.com/joeyh/github- backup)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Verizon to allow unlimited Skype calling over 3G starting next month - mshafrir http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/16/verizon-to-allow-unlimited-skype-calling-over-3g-starting-next-m/?s=t5 ====== wmf "You cannot use the Skype client to make any calls to U.S. PSTN numbers." according to GigaOM <http://gigaom.com/2010/02/16/skype-verizon-iphone/> ------ portman Is this really big news? The Skype for Android client has supported Skype calls for over one year. It works around the carriers' limitations by initiating an outbound call to a toll-free Skype number. Every day, I happily roll down the highway at 75mph talking to my Skype contacts in Europe and Asia. How is this any different for me? (Note: it's much cheaper for Skype, because they can now offer the same functionality without maintaining the toll-free local numbers that they need to maintain today.) ~~~ s3graham I don't think it's news until you can get a phone without a voice plan. ~~~ technomancy [http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone-plans- detail.a...](http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone-plans- detail.aspx?tp=tb1&rateplan=T-Mobile-Total-Internet-Rate-Plan) I use this with my Nexus One. Works for SIP and tethering. ------ aditya What's the rational behind this? Are they hoping that people won't abuse it because the quality isn't that great? Or are they just making more of their money off data than voice now to justify this? Hard to believe, in any case, perhaps Skype is giving them a kickback now that it is an independent entity and can make disruptive progress again without being held back by the bureaucracy that is ebay. ~~~ maukdaddy Data is becoming cheaper/easier to deploy than voice. Eventually all "voice" traffic will be data, this is just an intermediate step. ~~~ JunkDNA You hit it right. According to this article: <http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-10453550-78.html> Verizon is having trouble getting voice to work over LTE in their test markets, so they are going to go data only on LTE initially and use CDMA for voice. When I read that, I wondered if the voice problem was a function of something basic in LTE (like latency) or if the voice gear just doesn't play well with LTE yet. If it's the latter, then Skype VoIP applications would help offload voice traffic from CDMA for "power users". ~~~ aarghh Voice over LTE is supposed to work using IMS - but will require a fairly expensive upgrade to the network. Operators are keenly aware of the pitfalls of over-the-top voice losing them revenue, but this is an experiment to see if they can do away with IMS altogether. That, and the fact that someone else may try it first... ------ j_b_f I'll believe it when I see it (that said, I really hope to see it).	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Why Are Some Countries Rich and Others Poor? - fern12 https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/page1-econ/2017/09/01/why-are-some-countries-rich-and-others-poor/ ====== sumedh As someone who migrated from a developing country(India) to a developed country(Australia) and observing the difference in quality of life of average citizens among the two countries, I always wonder why politicians/dictators from developing countries who can also observe these differences ever wonder that the average people in a developed country are living a good life so why not just copy what the developed country is doing and apply the similar policies back home to improve the lives of their own citizens. ~~~ emrahayanoglu Because controlling people, who are struggling in their life, are much easier by dictators. Even with religious activities, dictators can make citizens pray for him. if politicians allow you to have lots of chances, then you'll start criticizing and want more. More improvement on life conditions gives you less control on citizens. I'm Turkish living in Switzerland, I can say that it is the same shit in every developing country and i can ensure you they won't be developed due to the facts that i mentioned above. We need really high numbers of citizens to break the borders. ~~~ donquichotte Also, corruption. This is anectotal, but in the countries I've visisted, which include a hand full of ex Soviet republics, the median quality of life seemed to be negatively correlated with the amount of corruption. ~~~ egeozcan I'm also Turkish, and believe me, when you have a dictator with his troll army, sucking the life out of the whole country, you'll wish you had the typical corrupt but manageable government from the 90s. The types we have these times would stand next to a kilometer-long list documenting their illegal business and say "we did what needs to be done for our great country" and everyone would cheer while you make escape plans. Hi from Germany(the risk of being falsely labeled as a teenager won't stop me: I<3🇩🇪). ------ LeonigMig No mention of colonialism or imperialism here. Not the whole answer, but part. ~~~ hasenj Japan and Germany were completely devastated after WWII, on a scale we have never witnessed in our lifetimes, yet they rose out of the Ashes. So no, it's not colonialism. It has to be something less visible. Something that a country like Afghanistan for example severely lacks. You might point to dictatorships, but I would point to South and North Koreas. South Korea was ruled by a brutal dictatorship _for decades_ , in a way not so different from Egypt today. Yet that did not stop it from developing. Even North Korea fares a lot better than many third world countries that have little to no enmities with their neighbors. I suspect the only reason North Korea sucks is because of the pressures/blockades imposed on it by the US (mostly for historical reasons). ~~~ sddfd After WWII, the US invested /massively/ in Germany. Also, many people were trained in some profession, so even though everthing was destroyed, they knew how to rebuild it. ~~~ Synaesthesia Same with South Korea, which actually made a lot of money during the Vietnam war, as did Japan. Japan trade with Zeus boomed at that time, and Korea supplied 300 000 mercenaries. Before that North Korea was faring better economically than the south. ------ wheresvic1 I'll save you all a click: The article answers the question with the following two points: \- lack of strong institutions \- trade barriers It provides an example of North vs south Korea in defense of the theory. It's a ridiculously simplistic synthesis in my opinion. ~~~ imperfect_cat This criticism is always so weird. What should the article - not thesis note, ARTICLE - have been: 10 times longer? It is almost like people expect comprehensive, bulletproof writing in under 1000 words. ~~~ aninhumer The criticism is not that the article should be more comprehensive, but that the title implies that it is. ------ wallace_f Economists can sometimes be the equivalent to the priests of the past-- basically making justifications for the ruling class. I was once passionate about economics and public policy... If we are to be honest about it, at some point you just realize that the world is much less nice than I imagined, and it's that way because of people's greed. That's not to say there aren't a fair good number of decent people out there, but those people are rarely found in powerful positions; and if they are, they are still susceptible to being corrupted. ~~~ andriesm The beauty about free market economics is, it doesn't depend on people's niceness to maximize productivity, capital utilization and consequently the aggregate standard of living of a country. Supply and demand, and pursueing self interest will achieve all of this in the aggregate despite any localized exceptions. ~~~ mvc All those good things like maximizing productivity, capital utilization etc are theory based on markets with perfect competition. How many "free markets" satisfy all the assumptions made about perfect competition? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition) ~~~ wallace_f Yea, exactly. But with effective regulation, we can get closer to perfect competition, or at least remedy the market failures that are inevitable. To go on a bit of a rant--ufortunately it appears the trend is going the other way with Big Gov allied with Big Business, out of control banking empires and MIC, made possible by never-ending low interest rates and easy money policies from the Fed that mask it all. Don't belive me? Real cost of living has increased to where 2 incomes are required for many to just keep their heads above water to afford what their parents had, despite more education and working longer hours. We have never ending wars, 26,000 bombs dropped last year, and the longest war in history and it was never even approved by congress. Our most popular media outlets tell us we need this so we have jobs[1]. 1-[https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is- worried-...](https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-worried- defense-contractors-will-lose-jobs-if-u-s-stops-arming-saudi-arabia/) ------ AstralStorm I "like" the use of North Korea as example of bad institutions and not of effect of embargoes. Likewise South Korea definitely did not receive (and properly used) foreign aid. /s The article clearly contradicts itself on the point by showing how ineffective Qing dynasty policy reforms were in China while later even bigger changes in communist China worked. And definitely does not address anything related to USSR or rise of the USA. Or further back, British empire. (Each employed very different policies was successful for a time.) And then you have to look even further back... Conclusions are therefore a joke toy model. ~~~ dba7dba > Likewise South Korea definitely did not receive (and properly used) foreign > aid. South Korea did receive quite a lot of foreign aid from US, UN. South Korea is the only nation to transition from receiver to giver in international aid. [https://poldev.revues.org/1535](https://poldev.revues.org/1535) ~~~ khuey The '/s' at the end of that line denotes sarcasm. ~~~ dba7dba Learning something new lol. No seriously. I missed it. South Korea really did have the Greatest Generation. Those who were were adults during the war and those born around that time. Really. ------ F_r_k I recommend everyone interested in this subject to read "Why Nations Fail: The Origins of Power, Prosperity, and Poverty" by Daron Acemoglu It's a great book that tries to explain why. ~~~ cinquemb I came across this 36 page lecture[0] with the same title in by another person with the author, for those who want some insight without buying the book. Interesting to read, and it seems like it comes down to: - Because they have extractive political and economic institutions. - These are difficult to change though they can be successfully challenged and altered during critical junctures. - The roots of modern world inequality lie in the emergence of inclusive institutions in Britain and the fruits of this - the industrial revolution - spread to those parts of the world that had similar institutions (settler colonies) or quickly developed them (Western Europe). - Other parts of the world languished with extractive institutions which have persisted over time and thus remain poor today. With caveats of: - History is not destiny. - Effective reforms towards inclusive institutions possible. - But it often necessitates a minor or major political revolution. Two examples: 1 End of Southern equilibrium in the United States 2 Botswana I think I was drawn to this part in the lecture and started thinking about what modern day analogous of this could look like (Jamie Dimon's position on crypto-currencies as of late [specifically bitcoin] as modern day Sultan wrt firing employees trading such [and other well politically entrenched financial institutions around the world], DPI on internet networks by various nation states from blocking easy access to information, etc) : - In 1445 in the German city of Mainz, Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press based on movable type. Spread rapidly throughout Western Europe. - In 1485, the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid II issued an edict to the effect that Muslims were expressly forbidden from printing in Arabic. [0] [http://www.lse.ac.uk/assets/richmedia/channels/publicLecture...](http://www.lse.ac.uk/assets/richmedia/channels/publicLecturesAndEvents/slides/20110608_1830_whyNationsFail_sl.pdf) ------ sus_007 As a citizen of a developing country (Nepal) which has been haunted by its unstable politics, I'd still like to (partially)advocate that even less- developed nations(at least some) have invaluable resources (mostly natural) that the urbane nations can't renew for themselves. For instance, here in Nepal, there's a massive open market for tourism due to the remarkable landscapes(mountain ranges, "Everest", geographically blessed I'd say) & ancient cultural heritages(sacred Hinduism & Origin of Buddhism). Had there been a proper salutation of foreign indulgence in exploiting the resources over here, Nepal would have done much better. Hence, the political mayhem has led our country nowhere productive. :( ------ Melchizedek One important factor could be differences in intelligence. [https://infogalactic.com/info/IQ_and_Global_Inequality](https://infogalactic.com/info/IQ_and_Global_Inequality) ~~~ zimzim For the past century raw scores on IQ tests have been rising; this score increase is known as the "Flynn effect," named after Jim Flynn. In the United States, the increase was continuous and approximately linear from the earliest years of testing to about 1998 when the gains stopped and some tests even showed decreasing test scores. For example, in the United States the average scores of blacks on some IQ tests in 1995 were the same as the scores of whites in 1945.[61] As one pair of academics phrased it, "the typical African American today probably has a slightly higher IQ than the grandparents of today's average white American."[62] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence) IQ is a culture thing not a brain thing ------ smithmayowa I like to think that countries that are rich have figured out things about themselves that they have and are really needed by the rest of the world, and so they provide those services to the rest of the world for a price and use the proceeds from those services to develop the infrastructure and well-being of their country; for instance a very important well-being improving task is diversifying their economy, this they do to protect against unforeseen shifts in the global market. The summary of this is that rich country figured out low hanging and easy fruits of services(for them that is, as if it was easy for others they could not hope to sell such services.) they could provide for a fortune and use those proceeds from those services to chase after high hanging fruits of services they could deliver to the world as those one's usually require intense capital. Poor countries therefore either have not figured out services they could provide for the world or they have figured it out but are not investing the proceeds from it in the infrastructure and well-being of their country, being a Nigerian I would say most poor African countries are poor not because of the former but the later due to corruption,tribalism,e.t.c. ------ mc32 Wasn't there a significant divergence in fortunes as economies transformed from resource based to value added economies? Around the turn of the XX century, many struggling economies today were on par with middling countries in Europe. Think Czech, Finland, Hungary, Polen, Japan. Brazil, Mexico, etc., were competitive with them back then, but now, the latter are seen as basket cases of mismanagement. And empire and colonialism didn't give even Japan aby advantage till the 30s, arguably one could say that sapped their vigor. On the other hand LatAm had become independent from Iberian powers while inheriting a system of government (not the best but arguably better than monarchies), yet with the exceptions of Chile and Uruguay, the rest have underperformed. ~~~ kbart Strange that you name Finland in a "basket cases of mismanagement". It is in world top20 by GDP/capita and often cited as having the best school system in whole world[0]. 0\. [http://www.businessinsider.com/wef-ranking-of-best-school- sy...](http://www.businessinsider.com/wef-ranking-of-best-school-systems-in- the-world-2016-2016-11/#9-japan-56-1) ~~~ distances > Strange that you name Finland in a "basket cases of mismanagement" You misread the comment, that's not what they claimed. ------ bronz economics as a field seems to be poisoned with fuzzy thinking. this guy says that the division of korea is an experiment that shows the results of communism vs capitalism, essentially, and then concludes that the lack of a free market in NK is the reason that it is very poor. is it not relevant that north korea is currently and has been for quite some time the target of heavy sanctions by the united states and its allies? a centralized economy is perfectly capable of performing as well as a decentralized one, provided that it is centralized well. pointing to this implementation of a centralized economy does nothing to advance the argument against the viability of centralized economies. this guy says that the output of people is what determines the wealth of a country. this confuses me a little because isnt it true that if all the countries in the world were filled with productive people, there might not be enough demand for all of their services? would a large chunk of people not be left behind? and, according to my introductory economics textbook, if such demand exists that every person on this earth can be employed at a high salary, would that demand not have already been naturally met in this global free market of nations that has existed for some time now? and lastly, here in the united states, a very rich country, most people have relatively meaningless jobs. people are wildly overpaid for the work that they do here in many cases. there are professors of womens studies and social network or engagement experts who are paid a lot of money to essentially do nothing. i would be happy to be corrected. ~~~ whb07 I gather you're of the belief that the economy is like a pie of fixed proportions to be divided rather than an ever changing pie which can grow bigger every year with productivity ? I once read a wonderful thought experiment on the Mises page about a Dorothy sized storm. Imagine a tornado swept by and grabbed a large number of hard working and smart people randomly and placed them in a random town. While people are temporarily shuffled, the brain surgeon(or some highly skilled technical person) is forced to pick up another trade like carpentry or any other less technical job in the meantime to provide and be productive in this new economy/town. The storm swept up and carried him elsewhere and so is temporarily stopping his highly skilled activity to become productive in some other one. The same is to be said of the economy at large. People are shuffled due to many events and will never be at "full" productivity due to unforeseaable events, for example, a bad weather event. Jobs come and go. Same goes for industries. Even more so for trends. ------ erikb Not just that nobody's helping and their system may be outdated, more powerful players are playing to keep them weak and use them as pieces in their competition with each other. The more powerful countries also don't really have an alternative, since stopping to compete means becoming weaker oneself, and helping others become stronger doesn't guarantee that they wouldn't become a new competiitor at the "big table". ------ bolololo1 Most rich countries are rich because they build their wealth on free labor (slavery), and this countries include USA, UK, France, Germany, Belgium, etc. Some are really poor because they've been exploited by the countries mentioned above (Africa and former German, British, Belgian, French colonies). Some are poorer because they've been destroyed by war multiple times (Poland). ~~~ Supernaut This is an absurd generalisation. The only nation in your list that benefitted greatly from slave labour is the USA, and even that period is over a hundred and fifty years ago. Furthermore, the civil war that was waged to end slavery ultimately brought economic ruin to the southern States that had relied on slave labour. In the post-WWII era, the countries that have prospered have done so because they have enjoyed stable government and long periods of peaceful relations with their neighbours. This allows for an educated populace, fruitful use of their natural resources and human ingenuity, and remunerative trade with other nations. ~~~ eesmith You write: "The only nation in your list that benefitted greatly from slave labour is the USA". Quoting [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain#Triangular_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain#Triangular_trade) : > By the 18th century, the slave trade became a major economic mainstay for > such cities as Bristol, Liverpool and Glasgow, engaged in the so-called > "Triangular trade". Further details from [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade) : > Bristol and Liverpool merchants became increasingly involved in the > trade.[92] By the late 17th century, one out of every four ships that left > Liverpool harbour was a slave trading ship.[93] Much of the wealth on which > the city of Manchester, and surrounding towns, was built in the late 18th > century, and for much of the 19th century, was based on the processing of > slave-picked cotton and manufacture of cloth.[94] Other British cities also > profited from the slave trade. Birmingham, the largest gun-producing town in > Britain at the time, supplied guns to be traded for slaves.[95] 75% of all > sugar produced in the plantations was sent to London, and much of it was > consumed in the highly lucrative coffee houses there. ... > By far the most financially profitable West Indian colonies in 1800 belonged > to the United Kingdom. ... > It has been estimated that the profits of the slave trade and of West Indian > plantations created up to one-in-twenty of every pound circulating in the > British economy at the time of the Industrial Revolution in the latter half > of the 18th century ~~~ Supernaut Thank you for your excellent reply. I stand corrected that regard. However, the fact that the period to which your refer is some 250 years in the past supports my wider point that it is specious to claim that the the wealth of current-day first world nations derives from the historic use of slave labour. ~~~ eesmith Do you still consider it an "absurd generalization"? How many years does it take for the benefits of slavery to disappear? I think it's far longer than you do. British slavery meant more income to the government, which lead to a better navy, which lead to the ability to defend the triangle trade. A better navy helped advance British imperialism. How might Trafalgar have turned out with a weaker British navy? British control of sugar production was built on slavery. But even once the slaves were free in a legal sense, the black population of ex-slaves was still at the bottom of the social ladder. The white landowners kept political and economic control for generations, and the profits went to Britain. In the US, institutionalized racism, not just in localized Jim Crow laws and sundown towns, but also in federal policies like redlining, prevented generations of blacks from getting the same economic benefits as whites. (See Richard Rothstein's “The Color of Law”; interview at [http://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten- history-...](http://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of- how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america) .) I know less about British history, but I do know how many thought the "Anglo-Saxon race" was above all others. You earlier wrote: "Furthermore, the civil war that was waged to end slavery ultimately brought economic ruin to the southern States that had relied on slave labour." I don't think you appreciate the full impact of slavery on the US or British economies. Quoting [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States#A...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States#Agitation_against_slavery) : > slavery was entwined with the national economy; for instance, the banking, > shipping and manufacturing industries of New York City all had strong > economic interests in slavery, as did similar industries in other major port > cities in the North. The northern textile mills in New York and New England > processed Southern cotton and manufactured clothes to outfit slaves. By 1822 > half of New York City's exports were related to cotton and from [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Cotton#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Cotton#History) > By 1860, on the eve of the American Civil War, cotton accounted for almost > 60% of American exports, representing a total value of nearly $200 million a > year. Even though slavery was banned in the British Empire, Britain still profited from slave labor carried out elsewhere. The cotton mills of Lancashire produced a huge fraction of the world's processed cotton. You know where that cotton came from? The forced labor of American slaves. Quoting now from [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Cotton_Famine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Cotton_Famine) : > When the slave-owning Southern States of America demanded secession from the > United States of America and declared war in 1861, the cotton supply was > interrupted at first by a Southern imposed boycott and then a Union > blockade. The South's thinking was that it could force British support > through an economic boycott. ... Of the 1,390,938,752 lb of raw cotton > 1,115,890,608 lb came from America.(80 %) ... Confederate flags were flown > in many cotton towns. Britain's economy profited from American slavery even until the 1860s, and they knew it. ~~~ Supernaut > Do you still consider it an "absurd generalization"? Yes, I do. I concede that you have demonstrated that economic benefits from slave labour continued to accrue to the UK economy until the 19th century. However, it is simply not true to flatly claim, as did the OP, that "Most rich countries are rich because they build their wealth on free labor (slavery)". ~~~ eesmith And the French economy. Quoting from [http://discoveringbristol.org.uk/slavery/routes/places- invol...](http://discoveringbristol.org.uk/slavery/routes/places- involved/europe/france/) : > French traders were heavily involved in the slave trade. From 1721-30, > French ships took 85,000 enslaved Africans to the plantations in the > Americas and the Caribbean. In the 1730s, they carried more than 100,000. > Altogether, about 1,250,000 enslaved Africans were taken by French ships. > Even after France abolished the trade, 500 French ships continued slave > trading illegally between 1818 and 1831. Quoting now from [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/france- confronts...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/france-confronts- slavery-a-demon-of-its- past/2016/05/28/0bf61b3e-2128-11e6-b944-52f7b1793dae_story.html?utm_term=.febc40e755e0) : > In the 18th and 19th centuries, France was among the major European slave- > trading nations, capturing and selling an estimated 1.4 million people > before leaders outlawed slavery in 1848. > The country’s coffers grew rich from colonial conquests in Africa, Southeast > Asia and the Caribbean, where slave labor generated the commodities that > French merchants then sold in Europe. > When metropolitan France finally outlawed slavery — a generation before the > United States — liberation brought freedom only in theory for many blacks in > French territories overseas. > “Slavery was abolished, and the old slaves became citizens,” said the > historian Frédéric Regent, a renowned expert on the French slave trade. > “They even elected deputies. But the plantation economy continued with the > same masters, who then became ‘employers.’ ” > “What was different between that and slavery?” Tin asked. “Nothing.” > This form of economic subjugation overseas persisted well into the 1960s, > when France, crippled by two world wars, lost its former empire. Many argue > that the injustice persists today in the form of socioeconomic disparity > between young whites and blacks, increasingly confined to peripheral suburbs > and low-paying jobs. > “It’s from slavery that we have the discrimination we have today and the > racism we see in France today,” said Myriam Cottias, a historian and member > of the government-sponsored foundation, in a telephone interview from > Martinique. > “It’s not yet totally done in France. France has many, many institutional > links to slavery.” Yet again, even though slavery was officially abolished, the "economic benefits from slave labour continued to accrue". Even to the present. ~~~ Supernaut I note that the examples that you cite above are all nations that were relatively wealthy to begin with. They did not suddenly lift themselves out of poverty in the 17th century by enslaving Africans. Rather, their advanced technology and capital resources enabled them to dominate and exploit other populations, either through slave trading or colonisation. In doing this, they did further enrich themselves, true, but to state that this shameful period is actually the wellspring from which these nations' wealth derives in the 21st century is dramatic overreach. ~~~ eesmith My objection is to your statement that it's absurd. I agree that it's an exaggeration, and even that it's wrong, but it's not absurd. The further back in time you go, the more the framework changes. How did those nations become relatively wealthy in the first place? How much was due to serfdom? Combined, of course, with the new political philosophy which centralized absolute power for the sovereign. (As [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplementary_Convention_on_th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplementary_Convention_on_the_Abolition_of_Slavery) helpfully points out, the United Nations 1956 Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery also prohibits serfdom.) But by doing that, the problem is that most areas in Europe had serfs. I think in Europe only some of the Nordic countries did not. (On the original topic, Sweden's era as a great power was funded by its copper export, and not from slaves or serfs.) And many cultures had slaves or participated in the slave trade, including those that weren't great powers, so slavery, serfdom, and other forms of forced labor are not really diagnostic. Do you have an idea of how much of the those nations' wealth derives from slavery? I don't think it's an easy thing to answer. It's clearly not "zero". ------ alborzmassah Why don't countries just merge or join each other? Doesn't all the division simply create more fear and us VS them. ~~~ tanto To put it a bit colorful: Because in the Game of Nations many people want to be King. To have many Kings you need many Kingdoms. Also Unity makes you strong and usually your enemies will do whatever they can to divide and conquer. ~~~ mantas More like people don't like when people from far away try to enforce seemingly stupid laws. Having a vote that actually matters is awesome. The other question is how those tiny kingdoms organise into bigger structures to have economy-of-scale, while still retaining their sovereignty on internal matters. ------ js8 I think it just happens randomly, and here is the answer about the mechanism: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyHVwUe66qw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyHVwUe66qw) ------ meric Why are there bigger numbers and smaller numbers? ------ bluetomcat Ahh, productivity. You'll be highly productive deforesting your lands, I'll be highly productive in selling pop-culture to the entire world. I get wood and you get obese. Deal? ------ jamesmattis There must be a definition of rich and poor. It should not be devised by looking at the wealth. It should be devised by looking at the living standards, education system, environment, law and order, equality, zero racism. And where people can live an anxiety/depression free life. Where there is welfare, care, love grows everyday for each other. ~~~ imperfect_cat Sadly, that defines one race countries. No racism possible when there are no races but one. Personally, I think this definition is bad because it progress free. Anxiety free is has no scale. If you are massively anxious I. Country A, and mildly anxious in B, both fail. Need to rethink this. ~~~ tim333 There still seems a fair bit of racism in mostly one race countries, say Japan for example. There seems less in widely mixed places, say London or Singapore. ~~~ nostromo123 Yeah, London, where not being of the "correct" religion can get you killed in some areas! (I know, religion is not a race, etc....my point is that mixed places are not necessarily more tolerant)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
On the Polish Paradox - pimeys http://www.booksandideas.net/How-to-Live-in-a-Hostile-World.html ====== basicplus2 "Neoliberal globalisation has exploited or demolished local economic resources, impoverished large fractions of population, increased social and economic inequalities, introduced the ruthless law of the fittest and harsh struggle for survival and, last but not least, privatised social services depriving millions of basic life security." ~~~ pimeys "Let us keep what we have, don’t trust anyone, keep the aliens out."	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Musician and synthesizer pioneer Don Buchla has died - tokai http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/arts/music/don-buchla-dead.html?_r=0 ====== justincormack Previous thread [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12523042](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12523042)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: Jot – a terminal note taking app - termusr https://github.com/int3rlop3r/jot ====== termusr A terminal-based note taking app I use everyday.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Drafting your first investment round. - andreasklinger http://klinger.io/post/49773016181/drafting-your-first-investment-round ====== andreasklinger OP here. I would love to try something here. The goal is to have a good source for early stage founders. And my advice - in the end - is also just one opinion. I would love to hear yours. If you got your own insights to add (or spot errors) I would recommend you to submit your changes via draft[1]. I will add them step by step. [1]: [https://draftin.com/documents/57927?token=tGIgh5zd28S0cGt0Yy...](https://draftin.com/documents/57927?token=tGIgh5zd28S0cGt0Yy4frppsMmFYH5ymUQVkbPGU3Ko) ------ staurimas Right. Every founder should look for A-level co-founders as well as A-level investors. The only thing I would make more clear here is how long does it take to find those A-level people and close investment round. Founders have to multiply by two whatever number they have in their head :) Closing round alone takes about 4 months in average. The worst thing that can happen is to get short on money while looking for investment. This not only makes things complicated for startup, but also scares away investors. So it is very important to save/earn enough money in order to get more (smart) money. Good poker players have at least 100 stakes (the amount they can loose in one game) in their bankroll. This way they can avoid short term harmful decisions. If this comparison makes sense... Post is great like many other recent presentations/posts by Andreas and def deserves retweet :) Cheers @staurimas ~~~ andreasklinger thx for the kind words. agree on your point about the fact that it just might take to long to close a round if you reach for a-level. it's more about a more strategic approach to drafting the round if you reach a or b or c in the end is a different topic. but at least you reach the right direction in each area ------ missy What I like is that its an honest hands on approach from a founders view with the thus resulting experiences. I work as a VC and I could not explain these observations in the same way and give the feeling of being with you in a bar in a founder to founder relationship. Look forward to reading more :) ------ sgs1370 Great article. For something even more in-depth, see Venture Deals: Be Smarter Than Your Lawyer and Venture Capitalist by Brad Feld <http://amzn.com/0470929820> (I just finished reading it, and found it extremely informative.) ------ ldn_tech_exec1 I love the quote from @msuster	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Dropquest - bjonathan http://blog.dropbox.com/?p=659 ====== nameless_noob If you haven't finished it before, here's the old thread about it: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2107523>	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Compyx: creating a multicolor 8‑bit font for browsers - bpierre http://pixelambacht.nl/2014/compyx-a-multicolor-8bit-font/ ====== bane Once again, another fantastic idea that sources its idea from the demoscene, one of the two great alternative software movements (the other being the opensource movement). ------ 178 It would be interesting to know if this transformative use of the multicolor charsets counts as copyright infringement. I know "normal" (vector) fonts are not protected by copyright because they don't cross the threshold of originality, but I personally wouldn't lump the examples in the article into the same category. In any case it is really interesting to see how much creativity was put into the distribution of _warez_ … ------ blackoil Windows phone 8.1 also seem to have COLR/CPAL support. ------ Pxtl ... now I want all the fonts from classic '90s videogames. Doom font! Tyrian font! Oh my God we're going to get so sick of all of those. ------ lelandbatey This is a really cool thing, and I like the idea of multicolored fonts. Something to note is this crashed Firefox for Android. ~~~ morsch Worked fine for me, Firefox 29.0.1 on Cyanogenmod 11. ------ gdewilde I found replacing letters with images to be very compatible with even the oldest browsers. [http://abc.go-here.nl/](http://abc.go-here.nl/) ------ Camillo Could somebody please explain why people are going to all this trouble to do weird things with fonts? Why not just use an image instead? ------ mnx Nice, although I'd guess the biggest application will be in icon fonts, and not those meant for text. ------ Semiapies Seems to work for Chrome on the Mac, too. ------ mpyne This is really cool.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
SendHub (YC W12) Lets Businesses Text Their Customers, Teachers Text For Free - ashrust http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/12/yc-backed-sendhub-lets-businesses-text-their-customers-and-teachers-text-for-free/ ====== idl As someone on the founding team of an identical startup a year ago, I can share experience: \- This market is beyond saturated, with countless large companies competing. \- In our experience, small businesses, teachers, etc. will do everything they can to avoid paying for the service, no matter how much value it creates for them. This is why many of the other providers have an 'ad-supported' free plan - freemium is a tough route here (but I'm sure they're just doing that right now as a ploy). \- The general consensus received is 'Oh we have [Facebook\|Twitter\|Email\|...] for that, and they're all free!' \- SMS is more of a private sanctity that people use for family and friends. Facebook, Twitter, Email can be ignored, filtered using labels and lists, and checked when the person has time. People do not want to be SMS spammed with 'We have freshly baked cakes!' 5 times a day. ------ bambax > _The big draw for SendHub has nothing to do with buzzwords (aren’t you sick > of local, social, photo-sharing apps, anyway?)_ > _In a couple of weeks (...) the mobile-optimized website will include social > sharing buttons, so a business can spread its message even further through > the recipients’ circle of friends._ Right. ~~~ abbasmehdi Being social and using social are not the same thing. You use Facebook/Twitter, are you a social app? ------ MicahWedemeyer Selling unlimited messaging to users for a fixed fee while paying Twilio $0.01 per message sent is pretty ballsy. Further, paying $0.01 per message while offering a free plan is extremely ballsy. In their defense, though, my understanding is that once you reach a certain volume of messages, the cost to send quickly heads to zero, especially if you deal with the carriers directly. The phone carriers want you to be sending the messages since they can charge people to receive them (at least in the USA). I'll definitely be curious to see where this goes. ------ keithpeter UK Specific comment: remember in UK there is no cost to _receive_ sms messages I work as a teacher and use bulksms.co.uk to send text messages to my students who are 19+. I use an Intranet based system with a fixed set of non-editable messages to send to 18 year olds and under because of the UK child protection laws. Students respond well to sms messages compared to email. If someone was missing, a quick sms results in a phone call explaining absence. I pre-pay for 1000 messages every couple of months out of my own pocket because it makes my job easier. ~~~ DanBC Can I ask how you protect, and show that you're protecting, people's phone numbers? How do you handle the data protection compliance stuff? Or is that something that you don't have to concern yourself with because of the use case or somesuch? thanks. ~~~ keithpeter I'm in the UK. I ask adult students if it is ok to send them text messages, everyone says yes basically, I've had one opt out in about 5 years. The Colleges were I work have enrollment forms that include the relevant data protection clauses as they collect addresses/phone numbers for contact purposes anyway. I use a password protected Web site to send messages which keeps an audit of the text of the messages sent, and I have not enabled the answer facility so these are 'one way' messages. I think that is more secure for the students than using, say, my own phone. Under 19 its official channels only, and the College system has 'standard messages' that we click a button on to send from the Intranet. The student database has phone/address details and we have all the legal permissions to contact both students and their parent/guardian as needed. Basically I'm in a regulated professional role where contacting students is regarded as good practice. ------ jetsnoc This article is a great example of spinning a disadvantage in to a feature. Short-codes are expensive and most small organizations wouldn't or couldn't pay for them anyways. Instead of sharing a short-code among their subscribers SendHub has spun the ten-digit telephone number (NPA+NXX+LOCAL) as a feature, value-add or strength in their product. Great work! ------ dholowiski Hands up if you thought about building this, but didn't because you thought it was too simple. ~~~ frankdenbow I'm working on one of these for a client. There are _tons_ of similar services out there. ~~~ GnomeChomsky Since I'm not familiar with this space, what are some of the other big competitors out there? And how do they (seemingly) stack up against SendHub? ~~~ frankdenbow Texting.ly (TechCrunch Disrupt/ Dave McClure funded) Recessmobile.com TextMarks.com CallFire.com Tatango.com CellIt.com TxtWire.com Mobivity.com Sumotext.com Message-media.com Trumpia.com Trust that there are many more for more granular use cases. ~~~ smcguinness As you said, there are a ton of niche companies that handle this. Just look at the attendee list at the Bar & Nightclub show in Las Vegas. I work for a company that provides a similar service, but we have a short code and work directly with the carriers. Lots of competition and not a whole lot of margin if you don't have the volume drive cost down. Good luck to the, but free isn't going to last too long. ------ mustpax I really hope SendHub requires users to explicitly sign up before they receive mass updates. I bet a lot of your customers are going want to import their existing customer database so they can "stay in touch" and send out inane spam about their lunch special. ------ benjlang Makes me look back at www.ClassParrot.com, we should have focused on something more general like this, instead of just teachers... ~~~ mildavw Did the 80% for $1 ever produce a cofounder? ------ cbs Thats funny. I can't think of a single company I do business with that wouldn't piss me off if they sent me a text. ~~~ solnyshok how about airlines informing you about flight delays, or credit card warning of unusual activity with the card? ~~~ cbs They have my for-spam email address, they can use that. ------ ksakhuj This seems like a weekend project building on top of twilio. ------ revelation What nonsense. SMS gateways are so 2000. This would be more interesting if their mission was to integrate all the various kinds of notification systems, including SMS, into one unified solution. ~~~ saryant Sounds a lot like Wuphf. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuphf> ;) ------ sunnynagra What does this have over Google Voice? ~~~ ashrust SendHub makes it easy to send 1 message to any number of people and allows your customers to join groups by simply texting a keyword to your SendHub number. For example, Tom's Pizza could have its customers text 'pizza' to be signed up for alerts from them. We also have feedback built in and you can be signed up and sending messages in under a minute - hard to do with Google voice.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: What is the best example of data-heavy dashboards you've seen? - strimp099 I'm building some... data-heavy dashboards... and am completely lost in how to combine my various charts and tables to make them. I am not a designer and not creative and am looking for some inspiration! ====== auslegung I was a developer at Feathr and thought theirs were data-dense and usable, but you have to be a customer to actually see the dashboard.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Golang arbitrary-precision fixed-point decimal library - dimva http://engineering.shopspring.com/2015/03/03/decimal/ ====== Okvivi A library that seems to have been requested quite a lot by the golang community [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/golang- nuts/decim...](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/golang-nuts/decimal)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Google Engineer Calls Google+ a Pathetic Afterthought - bhartzer http://gizmodo.com/5849061/google-engineer-calls-google%252B-a-pathetic-afterthought ====== yanw He was referring to the platform not the product. Everyday it seems I find yet another reason to hate the tech "press".	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Fruux buys sabredav - treve http://blog.fruux.com/2013/05/02/fruux-acquires-sabredav/ ====== treve And the other post : <http://evertpot.com/sabredav-acquired-by-fruux/> This latter is mine, and I was pretty excited about it :)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Co - MatthewPhillips https://github.com/visionmedia/co?foo ====== MatthewPhillips As always TJ pulls off something brilliantly simple.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
IOS Nib helper for 3.5 and 4 inches - kirualex https://github.com/kirualex/KANibHelper ====== fnayr Nice. You should change the naming convention to match with the iPad default nib naming convention (~ipad nib names will auto load on iPads). What I do is: iPhone 3.5 = nibName~iphone3_5 iPhone 4 inch = nibName~iphone4 iPad = nibName~ipad Then, when I'm editing my nib files in Xcode, it's much quicker to figure out which one to click on based upon the name. ~~~ kirualex good idea, I'm gonna build upon that !	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Cat purr generator - kleer001 http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/catPurrNoiseGenerator.php ====== audiosampling Dev here. So surprised to hear my cat purring a lot this morning, and then realised it was featured on HN today! :) To celebrate this, the Cat Purr IAP on myNoise's iOS App has been set to Tier 0, so you can all enjoy the same sound on your iOS device for free as well! ([https://itunes.apple.com/be/app/mynoise/id813099896?mt=8](https://itunes.apple.com/be/app/mynoise/id813099896?mt=8)) ~~~ nailer Hi there! Just wanted to say this would be amazing if you added in-time vibration. ~~~ ddingus Seconded ------ znpy I opened this tab and forgot about it. Didn't realize it was a car purring, began doing smartctl tests on my hard disk. Lol. ------ simias I've been using this website for a while, even donated some money. There are endless possibilities of sound combinations, you should have a look at the other generators on the site: [http://mynoise.net/noiseMachines.php](http://mynoise.net/noiseMachines.php) I enjoy "Spring Walk": [http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/springWalkSoundscapeGenerat...](http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/springWalkSoundscapeGenerator.php) and "Jungle Life": [http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/jungleNoiseGenerator.php](http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/jungleNoiseGenerator.php) ------ xirdstl This is great! I was hoping to get a reaction from my cats, but they were pretty indifferent, giving me a look that said "So what? I'm still hungry." I am addicted to having the sound of a fan when I sleep. I can trace that back to the college dorm days where we would use this really old box fan at night to generate noise to drown out whatever else was going on in the halls. And by old, I mean it was made when it was still okay to make a fan with a grill you could reach your hand through. That fan having long since disappeared, I now rely on a mobile app to meet that need. ~~~ audiosampling Small : [http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/fanNoiseGenerator.php](http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/fanNoiseGenerator.php) Big : [http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/dataCenterNoiseGenerator.ph...](http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/dataCenterNoiseGenerator.php) ;-) ~~~ newman314 Data center noise??? Argh. All I have to do is close my eyes and I can hear the hum. My worst nightmare would be not being able to turn this sound off. ------ MattBearman Love this. Even though it doesn't sound 100% real, it's still just such a relaxing sound, it may well become be go to work music. ~~~ audiosampling I agree with you, it doesn't sound as real as I wished it to be. Cat Purr was a request of many early myNoise users. At beginning, I kept explaining all the reasons why the myNoise sound player was not designed for playing a cat purr (it was initially designed to play random-phase and flat spectrum noises such as white noise and rain) and why I wouldn't implement a cat purr. Then, I gave up and programmed it, just to stop people asking :D It is not the myNoise sound I am the most proud of, but it seems that people like it (or the concept). ~~~ Genmutant Which one are you the most proud of? ~~~ audiosampling To serve as a noise blocking white noise machine (that is the main use of the site) but only with natural sounds, this one is my favourite (try with the Animate feature) : [http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/windSeaRainNoiseGenerator.p...](http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/windSeaRainNoiseGenerator.php) In general, all the latest ones have my preference, as I am perfecting my skills, day by day. I am quite happy with the last one added two weeks ago: [http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/circularBreathSoundscapeGen...](http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/circularBreathSoundscapeGenerator.php) Check this one if you like sung voices: [http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/himalayanVoicesSongGenerato...](http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/himalayanVoicesSongGenerator.php) ~~~ nemof our office has been listening to jungle life and absolute rain all week at work. we love your site. if/when an android app comes out i'll definitely buy it. ------ erispoe A perfect complement for coffitivity[1], the cafe noise generator. Now I can get to work. [1] [https://coffitivity.com/](https://coffitivity.com/) ~~~ cpeterso I also like [http://www.rainymood.com/](http://www.rainymood.com/) ------ zapt02 There are many excellent generators on that page, but Anamnesis is my favourite - a noir, sci-fi world awaits: [http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/anamnesisSoundscapeGenerato...](http://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/anamnesisSoundscapeGenerator.php) ~~~ e40 Blade Runner-ish. I like it, too. ------ eridius This is pretty cute. But you're missing a golden opportunity to call it "Purrlin Noise". ------ jvehent We don't need noise cancelling headphones. We need cat purr generating headphones! ------ ddingus My cat noticed this. Normally, she is around, or sitting close. She investigated the Mac, gave me the "da fuck?" look and curled right up near the machine and joined in the purring. I used this for a while today. Nice. I was relaxed. ------ rhaps0dy My laptop is even vibrating to the touch from the sound. I'm typing on a cat! ------ unoti Even though I know this isn't a real kitty purring in my ear, I can sense myself feeling relaxed and soothed by this as if it were a drug. I've heard that petting a cat or dog lowers a person's blood pressure. I bet hearing cat purrs does, too. I recently read the book Influence which describes a myriad of ways people and animals have automatic responses to various stimuli; I wonder if this is that kind of thing. ------ codq While it's certainly no replacement for a purring cat pressing down upon your lap, the "sleeping" preset is SPOT-ON. Great work :) ------ snake117 I like these kinds of concepts; simple and can really improve productivity when being played in the background. There is another app for coffee shops: [https://coffitivity.com/](https://coffitivity.com/) Although you can't modulate SFX, its still nice to run in the background. ------ edem You can choose from a lot of other sounds on the website as well just take a look around. I really like the "Healing Water" one. Another site which was featured lately: [http://rain.today/](http://rain.today/)? ------ hokkos I have a better generator at home : [https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_bsCxOzsxqxOVhyWVdtUU4zUWM...](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_bsCxOzsxqxOVhyWVdtUU4zUWM/view) ------ mahouse I don't know, this sound makes me very very angry. ------ claystu My cat immediately reacted! Must be pretty good... ------ _mikz Suprisingly soothing :) ------ wingerlang Found this very unsettling for some reason.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Island Generator - exupero http://exupero.org/hazard/post/islands/ ====== Lerc A somewhat obscure piece of trivia. There's code similar to this seen on a computer screen in digimon. [http://i.imgur.com/gh3dK.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/gh3dK.jpg) A translation from the Basic dialect into Javascript [http://fingswotidun.com/code/index.php/Digimon](http://fingswotidun.com/code/index.php/Digimon) Press the play button to get it trying a series of random seeds. ------ GuiA Great writeup! _Notice that range stops just shy of 2π. Floating point math sometimes produces a final angle indistinguishably close to 2π, adding one extra vertex to our n-gon. To see for yourself, change (- tau 0.000001) to tau and set the number of sides to 6. You’ll see an extra point in the output very close to the starting point._ This is a "trick" that you find everywhere in graphics programming, and I can't believe we've been programming for over half a century and still have to deal with crap like that in our tooling. It leads to code that, while readable to the initiated programmer, is not what it _should be_. ~~~ kmill It wouldn't have been a problem if it instead used an index variable i ranging from 0 to the number of sides, computing 2 _pi_ i/sides along the way. If you're going to rely on repeated addition of irrational numbers to come out to some exact value, then you've misunderstood the abilities of finite decimal representations. It is something easy to overlook, but shouldn't be too surprising to someone who has computed anything by hand (for instance, try long dividing 1/7 out to some number of decimal places, and then adding the result to itself seven times --- if it's a problem there it's not simply a tooling issue, assuming of course the problem isn't with decimals!). Though, if we want to fix our tools, perhaps instead of the promise of a "cos" or "sin" functions, we could have (ngon-point i n) which returns [(cos (/ i n)) (sin (/ i n))]. Then you wouldn't be tempted to use floating-point numbers to represent the index of a polygon vertex. ~~~ vog I fully agree. As a more general strategy, just use integers (preferably unsigned integers) for all critical stuff such as state handling and looping over. Then, perform floating point operations only on top of that, as a last step. Sometime you don't even need that and use fixed point arithmetics instead (i.e. change your unit to some fixed fraction, e.g. in accounting calculate with integer cents instead of floating point euros/dollars). ~~~ munificent > Then, perform floating point operations only on top of that, as a last step. Right. "Once you go float, you never go back." Any time you need discrete operations like counting and equality, do it in integer space. Avoid going from integer space _back_ to floating point space. ------ cossatot This is cool, thanks for posting. I especially like how there are several styles of coastlines. I'm really interested in algorithmic generation of topography, probably by first creating fractal stream networks (either from the coast/ low elevation boundary or from watersheds/drainage divides). I'm a geologist so most game- oriented topography generators look super unrealistic to me, but making stream networks and working from there would be helpful with quantitative landscape analysis and simulations. Anyone heard of anything like this? If nothing else, then some way of filling in a polygon with branch-like fractals? ~~~ hyperpallium Yes, this is one of the main approaches when I was looking at this. Sorry, don't have references at hand, but recall comng across a few when searching for "hydraulic" erosion and river formation. IIRC, it took a little while to find the favoured search terms. I was using [http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/) and [http://scholar.google.com.au/](http://scholar.google.com.au/) There's an interesting review paper by Musgrave (decades after he was lead author on the most cited paper on fractal-landscapes, erosion and rendering) where he notes what you do: fractal landscapes look uncannily realistic to most people but they really aren't very realistic. [https://www.classes.cs.uchicago.edu/archive/2015/fall/23700-...](https://www.classes.cs.uchicago.edu/archive/2015/fall/23700-1/final- project/MusgraveTerrain00.pdf) BTW Can I ask you something please? I may rave on a bit, sorry... I'm interested in stream formation by erosion, instead of your more feasible stream-first approach, but I'm concerned that I end up with canyon-filled mountains, and silted up seas. I need a countervailing process, for mountain- formation and sea-emptying, which is surely plate tectonics: squashing mountains up, and subducting seas. Do you have any thoughts/references on modelling this? From my research, the cause of plate movement is not quite well-understood, with tentative theories of roiling magma rising, and somehow also point sources (for island chains like Hawaii). Wikipedia says the crust is thinner under oceans, because land is a better insulator and the sea cools it faster (but shouldn't that make it thicker?); and the weight of the sea pushes it down (but shouldn't land -- ie rocks -- be heavier than water, being denser, since they sink?) Thanks for your thoughts! ~~~ cossatot Thanks for the Musgrave reference, I'll check it out. As far as your geological questions: 1) Silted up seas and canyon-filled mountains aren't actually that inaccurate. Mountains as we think of them are highly eroded, basically just the remnants of much larger volumes of rock that were uplifted. I'd ballpark a 'typical' mountain range (Rocky Mountain front range, Appalachians, Alps, NZ Southern Alps) at having 10-20% of the uplifted volume of rock remaining. Say the mean elevation of a mountain range is 1 km above the surrounding land, the peaks may be ~2 km above. The rocks that make up those peaks (granite, gneiss, schist) might easily have formed at 10 km depth, so ~9 km of rock was removed through erosion. Note most of this erosion happens _during_ rock uplift, not after! So it's not like the mountains were super high and then got whittled down. I mean that happens but it's less dramatic than you may think. So the 'stream first' approach is not wrong--the two processes are simultaneous. 2) Ocean basins are huge, and very deep, but there are very large accumulations of sediments there. The oceans are so deep not simply because the crust is thinner, but because it's more dense. Tectonic plates are basically rafts of rock floating on a more dense mantle, and ocean plates are ~10% more dense than continental plates, so they sit lower (Archimedes' principle). However there giant 'fans' of sediment where big rivers, especially those draining actively rising mountains, hit the sea. The Bengal fan, where the Ganges empties into the Indian ocean, is a good example. But the fans are tiny compared to the ocean basins. In subuction zones, as you've mentioned, the sediment does get squeezed and thickened. Though the oceanic plate in a subduction zone may be 8 km below sea level, in some cases erosion of the plate, sedimentation in the 'trench' and tectonic thickening of the sediment may be enough that it fills the trench in completely and comes above sea level. Barbados is an example of this. The sediments in subduction zones trenches (called 'accretionary prisms') do eventually get compacted and heated enough to become rock again and pasted onto the sides of the continent. Often after enough ocean plate is subducted, there will be some islands or microcontinents on the oceanic plate that are too thick and buoyant to get subducted and they will smash into the continent, and all the sediment in between becomes incorporated in between, and melted and metamorphosed enough to look a lot like the continents in between. This is how continents grow. 3) The causes of plate tectonics are very well understood--The mantle is convecting because it's much hotter near the core than at the surface. Oceanic plates are more or less the surface of those convection cells, and continents are light by-products that don't get subducted back around but get moved around and smashed into each other and pulled apart by the convection below. There are also things called 'mantle plumes' that are less well understood but seem to be places at the core-mantle boundary that are much hotter and send up very localized batches of magma to the surface. These are small, relatively stationary, and independent of mantle convection, and so they basically perforate the plates as the plates slide by. Like a machine that spurts frosting onto cookies on a conveyor belt, except upside down. Or something. This is what Hawaii is. 4) I had a 4 but I'm cooking dinner and forgot what it was. ~~~ jjp Thanks for taking the time to explain some geology/plate tectonics in an accessible way. HN is great for the random educational diversions away from plain old tech. ------ david-given See also the venerable xmountains (possibly already installed on your workstation). Screenshot: [https://osde8info.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/6a00d4141b9517...](https://osde8info.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/6a00d4141b9517685e00d09e56ce08be2b.jpg) There's a writeup on how it works: [http://www2.epcc.ed.ac.uk/~spb/xmountains/about_xmountains.h...](http://www2.epcc.ed.ac.uk/~spb/xmountains/about_xmountains.html) I don't know how old it is, but the timestamp at the bottom of the HTML file above is 1997. ------ beeswax Nice. For those interested in the topic Amit Patel has a great article on polygonal map generation. Also discusses features like elevation, moisture, rivers etc: [http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/game-programming/...](http://www- cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/game-programming/polygon-map-generation/) ------ jimktrains2 Really cool! beyond the generation, I learned about [https://github.com/viebel/klipse](https://github.com/viebel/klipse) which looks pretty cool. The whole post also makes me want to look more into clojure. Aside: Is it OK to not have a <head> element? ~~~ spiralganglion Yep, you don't need a head — browsers will handle that just fine, and the spec generally allows for it. For an example of some HTML that leans quite heavily on the ability to omit tags, see here: [http://www.colorglare.com/2014/11/24/stateless- html.html](http://www.colorglare.com/2014/11/24/stateless-html.html) And you should get into Clojure(Script). It's a joyful language. ------ tzakrajs Crashes safari on iPad Air 2 ~~~ kaizoku111 Considering the JS file is 7 megs minified! It sometimes crashes even on my Macbook Pro. Other than that pretty impressive work. ~~~ arkitaip That should be 783 kb, right? ~~~ kaizoku111 The crash window says it's coming from this script when you click "New Island" [http://app.klipse.tech/plugin/js/klipse_plugin.js](http://app.klipse.tech/plugin/js/klipse_plugin.js) which is 6948118 bytes. ------ pavel_lishin Neat! I got a very marshy one on my third generation: [http://imgur.com/doRJskF](http://imgur.com/doRJskF) ------ pmyjavec Very cool! I'm a keen surfer, and the imagination runs wild seeing each newly generated island. ------ tunnuz It's broken. I just used it, and it randomly generated Australia ([https://www.dropbox.com/s/3aa5mr7gvbbmpc5/australia.png?dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/s/3aa5mr7gvbbmpc5/australia.png?dl=0)). ------ tuned If you like this stuff, check [https://github.com/Mindwerks/worldengine](https://github.com/Mindwerks/worldengine) ------ niix This really great, brings me back to my childhood - I used to love to draw islands. ------ charlesetc This is so awesome! I now am a lover of islands :D ------ callesgg Some islands look a bit unrealistic. With swamp areas sticking out i the sea. Waves would remove such things in a short timespan. ~~~ viraptor I disagree. We know nothing about the height at this point. It could be anything between a big, flat beach ([http://hd.wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/beach_island-t2.jpg](http://hd.wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/beach_island-t2.jpg)) and crazy cliffs sticking out into the sea ([https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Cliffs-O...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Cliffs- Of-Moher-OBriens-From-South.JPG)) Without a scale and a height map, almost no shape is unrealistic.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Serverless Docker Beta - Rauchg https://zeit.co/blog/serverless-docker ====== andrewtorkbaker And so ZEIT, my favorite serverless provider, keeps getting better. Highlights: \- "sub-second cold boot (full round trip) for most workloads" \- HTTP/2.0 and websocket support \- Tune CPU and memory usage, which means even smoother scaling And all that for any service you can fit in a Docker container - which is also how you get near-perfect dev/prod parity, an often overlooked issue with other serverless deployment techniques. On top of all that, ZEIT has one of the best developer experiences out there today. Highly recommend trying it out. And for the perpetual serverless haters out there: this is not a product for you, FANG developer. I think people underestimate how well serverless fits for the majority of web applications in the world today. Most small-medium businesses would be better off exploring serverless than standing up their own k8s cluster to run effectively one or two websites. ~~~ symlock I'm not a "serverless hater", but every company I've ever worked with had backend processes that were not tied to HTTP requests. I still keep actual servers around because the HTTP gateway is not the pain point. It's long- running processes, message systems, stream processing, and reporting. That said, I look forward to the company (or side project) where "serverless" can save me from also assuming the "devops" role. ~~~ rhacker I think all that is still possible in Serverless. I'm not a serverless architect or anything, but that's typically handled by various serverless queues and related event systems. ~~~ deskamess Don't most serverless calls have a time limit? ~~~ bdcravens Yes, but you typically build your functions to split up the work if necessary. (Create additional queued events) ------ Sujan Am I the only one having problems to follow .gif "demos"? When I get to the image, it is in the middle of everything and I don't really have an idea what is going on. Even watching it multiple times, I am not sure where it starts, ends, what the individual steps are. Or is it because I just don't know enough about this stuff? ~~~ Sujan Oh, and to make this more than a simple rant/whine, some constructive suggestions that could possibly solve the problem: \- Normal video with playback controls? \- Add a clearly distinguishable "this is where it starts" screen. \- Is there maybe a way to control playback of a gif via JS/HTML? Add a "restart" button. \- Add a timeline into the .gif that shows where I am (similar to usual video player). ~~~ piyh Make it a webm. Then you can right click from pretty much any browser and click "show controls". See Gyfcat. ~~~ marzell You can view controls on GIFs in many cases as well, I believe. Also, nobody seems to make use of these features, but GIFs do not have to loop, nor do they have to loop by going back to the very beginning of the animation as well. In particular, I find it extremely ineffective where there are GIFs that only show a "final product/scene" for like 1 frame before looping back to the beginning. ~~~ TheDong > You can view controls on GIFs in many cases as well, I believe I don't think that's true. Twitter and imgur do convert gifs to mp4, and you can see controls there, but that's because they're not gifs. Do you have a citation or example of controls on actual gifs in any commonly used web browser? ~~~ marzell Yea I am probably mistaken, this is likely gifv ------ ransom1538 Yep. Pretty soon. You write code. You create a docker file. You find a place to run the docker file with your code [cheapest!]. Run it through your tests. Monitor it. The end. No vpcs,salts, puppets, sshs,chefs, horses,anisbles, cats,ec2s,devops,noops, sysadmins, kubernetes or chaos monkeys required. ~~~ aequitas Until you discover that the thing you are building requires more than a single application running in a single container and you end up building an entire "Operating System" around your containers and the circle starts all over again. Complexity is hardly ever in the solution, but mostly in the problem. Single solutions to complex problems often ignore/forget important parts of the problem and they come back to bite you, hard. ~~~ some_account I don't know... My experience is the other extreme - tech teams that make everything super complicated to support everything that can possibly happen. As a consequence, the it environment requires six months of experience to even understand. It's really not very fun to work in those environments. Lots of unnecessary complexity. ~~~ jarym Yup. I’ve seen this \- customers who insist every package has to be installed in some special place because /opt is ‘reserved’ \- have to have non-standard ports for everything because it might slow down attackers \- have to have an Apache proxy in front of everything, always - even internal components. ‘Cos. \- won’t invest in trusted SSL certificates for internal services. \- every sql query has to be wrapped in a stored procedure - no exceptions. ... list goes on ~~~ laumars There is actually a reasonable arguement for the stored procedure one. It means you can have different permissions for tables as you do for stored procedures so your application doesn't have permission to directly query your passwords. The benefit there is if an attacker gains access to your application and/or the DB authentication credentials they cannot then export users passwords or other sensitive information. ~~~ phil21 Seems more efficient to me to use column-based permissions in this case, and create stored procedures for the queries you need to interact with the "sensitive" columns. That of course does increase (dba) administration overhead, but it seems on it's face simpler and far more "programmer efficient" than storing every single query as a stored procedure. ~~~ laumars It's a difficult thing to generalise but if you have a pretty large or complex application and DBA (or several) then it does sometimes pay to have your DBAs write the SQL because it's a different enough paradigm from normal backend development that not all backend developers are skilled at writing perfomant SQL. However few applications are that complex, not all businesses can afford a dedicated DBA team, and there are clearly a lot of very talented developers who can turn their hand to multiple different stacks. So it's a difficult thing to generalise. ------ watty Looks great for basic websites but it's missing the biggest and most difficult piece of cloud infrastructure. The DATABASE! Today you'd have to open up your cloud DB provider to the world since Zeit can't provide a list of IPs to whitelist. This is a showstopper for me unfortunately. ~~~ Rauchg Most databases are quite unfit for the serverless world that's becoming a reality, where the needs shift towards global replication, flexible horizontal scalability (sharding) and vertical (provisioned QPS). We like and use CosmosDB because it fits this criteria. We anticipate that Google Spanner, CockroachDB and similar databases will become the go-tos in combination with ZEIT Now. ~~~ skrebbel So what do most of your current customers do for data storage? I mean, I doubt they all use CosmosDB? (simply because it's not particularly mainstream) ~~~ arunoda We don't have insight on what our customer's use mostly. We use existing technologies. Anyone can use any cloud Database service. We've datacenters on San Fransisco and in Belgium. So, based on those users can choose where they need to deploy their DBs. Usually we recommend to configure databases via env variables. Users can also use our [now secrets]([https://zeit.co/docs/getting- started/secrets](https://zeit.co/docs/getting-started/secrets)) service as well to avoid hard-coding secrets. ------ orf Shout out to the RCE I found in the zeit.now deploy button: [https://github.com/zpnk/deploy.now/issues/27](https://github.com/zpnk/deploy.now/issues/27) Hopefully someone from Zeit reading this can get my fix merged, it seems to be quite a popular service ~~~ Rauchg This is not supported nor maintained by us. Thanks a lot for bringing it to our attention. We will do our best to reach out! ~~~ orf Sure, but I reached out nearly a year ago to the maintainers with no reply. It seems anyone can now execute anything on your infrastructure (for free!), which isn't great. ~~~ simonw That's the case already: anyone can sign up for a free Zeit account and deploy code (wrapped in a Docker container) that then executes on Zeit's infrastructure. ~~~ orf And now someone can do it without signing up, using someone else's account, possobly disabling a widely used and quite cool service. ------ newscracker > “A very common category of failure of software applications is associated > with failures that occur after programs get into states that the developers > didn't anticipate, usually arising after many cycles. In other words, > programs can fail unexpectedly from accumulating state over a long lifespan > of operation. Perhaps the most common example of this is a memory leak: the > unanticipated growth of irreclaimable memory that ultimately concludes in a > faulty application. > _Serverless means never having to "try turning it off and back on again"_ > Serverless models completely remove this category of issues, ensuring that > no request goes unserviced during the recycling, upgrading or scaling of an > application, even when it encounters runtime errors. > How Does Now Ensure This? > Your deployment instances are constantly recycling and rotating. Because of > the request-driven nature of scheduling execution, combined with limits such > as maximum execution length, you avoid many common operational errors > completely. Somehow this sounds very expensive to me (like restarting Windows 2000 every hour just to avoid a BSoD, except that here it’s not that time consuming a process) and seems to leave aside caching, state management and other related requirements on the wayside for someone else to handle or recover from. Or it’s likely that I’ve understood this wrong and that this can actually scale well for large, distributed apps of any kind. Sounds like magic if it’s that way. ~~~ agency Really brings to mind that Rasmus Lerdorf quote: > I'm not a real programmer. I throw together things until it works then I > move on. The real programmers will say "Yeah it works but you're leaking > memory everywhere. Perhaps we should fix that." I’ll just restart Apache > every 10 requests. ~~~ gfodor It's funny when I was reading this part of the article I thought "that sounds exactly like how PHP works!" ------ tfolbrecht Awesome! While I was at AWS Summit in NY, I asked a round circle of AWS ECS/EKS users (Container orchestration products) about thoughts on a Docker container service that could execute like a FaaS product and there seemed to be none anyone knew of. I have a portion of a legacy application that's used infrequently and too costly to decompose but works fine Dockerized. Looking forward to using your product! ~~~ TheDong I'm amazed no one knew of one. Off the top of my head, services which let you run docker containers without dealing with any servers yourself: 1\. AWS Fargate 2\. Joyent Triton (which was as simple as DOCKER_HOST=<joyent-ip> docker run back in 2015) 3\. hyper.sh (available since 2016 I think?) 4\. OpenFaaS cloud (though you have to go through a couple more steps, you can bring a custom docker image as your 'function'). 5\. A metric ton of hosted kubernetes offerings ~~~ tapsboy Also ACI (Azure Container Instances) ------ robrtsql I'm confused about pricing. I come from using AWS Lambda, where you pay for the amount of memory allocated for your function, how many times it runs and how long each run is. Looking at Now, it looks like you are billed by the 'plan' that you choose, and that decides how many deployment instances you are limited to. What does a deployment instance mean for something that is 'serverless'? EDIT: Whoops, I see that there are 'on demand' prices for deployment instances too--now I just need to figure out how deployment instances map to serverless. ------ jgh So I've been messing with Fn + Clojure + Graal Native Image and I'm seeing cold start times around 300-400ms and hot runs around 10-30ms. TLS adds something like 100-150ms on top of that. I was excited about seeing improved docker start times, but it seems like you guys are pretty much at the same place I am with it. Here's my question, being relatively ignorant of Docker's internals: _is it possible_ to improve that docker create/docker start time from 300-400 ms (all in) to <100ms? 300-400ms is kind of a lot of latency for a cold boot still, and people still do things like keepalive pings to keep functions warm, so it would be pretty great to bring that down some more. ~~~ jacques_chester There are a lot of low- and medium-hanging fruit in this space. I take the view that there is a "warmth hierarchy" (an idea I spitballed with other folks in Knative before Matt Moore took it and filled it out a lot). You have a request or message. You need to process it. The hierarchy runs CPU > Memory > Disk > Cold. CPU-warm: immediately schedulable by the OS. Order of nanoseconds. Memory-warm: in-memory but can't be immediately scheduled. Our reference case is processes that have been cgroup frozen. Order of tens of milliseconds. Disk-warm: the necessary layers are all present on the node which is assigned to launch the process. Order of hundreds of milliseconds. Cold start: nothing is present on the node which is assigned to launch the process. It will need to fetch some or all layers from a registry. Order of seconds to minutes. Some of these problems can't be solved by Kubernetes (it doesn't know how to freeze a process), some of them can't be solved by Docker (it doesn't know about other nodes that might have warmer disk caches). Then there's the business of deciding where to route traffic, how to prewarm caches and based on what predictive approach, avoiding siloisation of processes due to feedback loops. As these are knocked down they will pay dividends for everyone. ------ tango12 So this is different from running docker containers on heroku because heroku has 1 to n autoscaling but not 0 to n? What are the other fundamental differences? ~~~ tfolbrecht It's actually pretty similar to the Heroku free tier dyno "sleep" till there's a trigger, but it's stateless. Different pricing, different ways of conceptualizing but from a user perspective that's a pretty good comparison. ~~~ collinmanderson > it's stateless. Can we use "stateless" instead of "severless"? That seems like a better term. ------ ingenieroariel I am already running an API service on Zeit now using a golang container that adds the binary and a csv file to a scratch image and re-reads the csv on each request (all requests take less than 0.3 seconds so i have not optimized). Currently I have to make sure to set min instances to 1 on the 'production' version of the API and set min instances = 0 to older versions. Will have to try before knowing for sure but I seems like switching to serverless docker would mean I don't have to make the distinction between 'old production' and 'new production' anymore and keep servicing requests to very old versions of my API without an expensive (7 seconds) cold boot. Nice! ~~~ arunoda You can alias your deployment and try to add a scaling rule to the alias. So, you don't scale up and down as you deploy. Once you call the `now alias` it'll take care of the scaling. ------ gamegod Finally, I can have left-pad as a service. ------ mirceal I did not play with it, but this actually looks pretty cool. The documentation seems to be sane/good quality. A few questions: How would one coordinate between multiple nodes running an app? (scenario in which the nodes cooperate to find each other. is there some sort of discovery available?) For the docker case, does it support health probes? (how you you know if the app is healthy?) ~~~ Rauchg For the duration of the warm phase (i.e.: while the process is running), we ascertain healthfulness via `SYN` packets as a baseline. Because you give us your code under the constraint that it will expose data over a port, we have a much better safety baseline than stock schedulers, that operate under the assumption that the process describe by `CMD` is a black box. We will describe this in more detail in coming weeks. One of our priorities is to minimize the cognitive load on the developer necessary to run a healthy service at scale. ------ StanAngeloff This is truly amazing and has so much baked in I find myself wanting to use it. However most apps my team and I work on require some form of persistence - uploads, log ins, API rate limits, etc. These scenarios don't fit well with the serverless world. It is technically possible to offset most of this to S3, a hosted NoSQL and perhaps even a service for dealing with a images/thumbnails. By that time your monthly bill is in the three digits, though. For a big web shop this is fine but your average freelancer with multiple smaller and finite-resource projects it's something to consider carefully. ------ danpalmer > Serverless > A new slot configuration property which defines the resource allocation in > terms of CPU and Memory, defaulting to c.125-m512 (.125 of a vCPU and 512MB > of memory) Sure sounds like needing to be concerned about the hardware. That feels like a leaky abstraction that the serverless design pattern claims or appears to take care of, but seems like it doesn't in practice. Is "serverless" the right level of abstraction? I'm not sure. ~~~ arunoda Whether it's serverless of not choice of hardware is very important. For an simple web app, you might not need special CPU and Memory requirements. But for a video encoding/decoding serverless app may needs different CPU/Memory requirements (and GPU). That's what this `slot` configuration property does. The default is good enough for all the general purpose apps. But if you need more, you can control it. ~~~ danpalmer I agree that one-size-fits-all doesn't work with hardware requirements, but I still think this is a leaky abstraction. The promise of Serverless is not having to care about servers, but this is an option to specifically control that. A better abstraction would auto-optimise hardware spec for the software's performance characteristics - that would be much more "serverless". ------ manigandham Great announcement. This development was inevitable, especially since most Functions-as-a-service infrastructure was really docker (or some other) containers running in the background, spinning up on demand using a pool of servers. Azure Container Instances launched last year, and now Google Cloud Functions has serverless containers in alpha, along with the serverless addon for GKE/Kubernetes, and there should be a good bit of announcements this year as other providers follow. The max time limits still seem pointless to me, there should be an option for unlimited uptime so the full spectrum of ephemeral function to entire app can be managed and deployed using a single flow. ------ virtualritz Serverless n00b here: I'm just playing with serverless Rust, via Apex, which works great so far. Why would I want to switch to this? What are pros/cons of having Docker in there? ~~~ iampims You don’t need a shim on top of Rust. You can run your docker image anywhere it is supported, like Heroku for instance… ------ nickik There is no 'hype' word in history I hate more then serverless. I was fine with microservices and all those other hype words but serverless is terrible. ~~~ SamLevin88 mind elaborating a bit? ~~~ nickik There are still servers involved. Serverless sounds like its peer to peer. What it really is is VM less. ~~~ Drdrdrq Well, as a developer I don't need to concern myself with servers, so in a way the term is fitting. ~~~ nickik The interface it gives you is the functionality that the server provides. A server does not mean 'operating system'. you don't have to deal with the OS, but you still have you app running on the server. ------ gitgud A couple of questions for Zeit: 1\. Once your docker container is built, am I paying to store it on Zeit? 2\. How is a Dockerfile versioned? Can I update it? Or do I need to redeploy. 3\. Is pricing for containers granular by time or per request to a container? 4\. How can these Dockerfiles talk to each other? Is there an API or method to fetch specific url's for each container? Looks like a great idea, am curious to try it out sometime. ~~~ arunoda > 1\. Once your docker container is built, am I paying to store it on Zeit? No. You don't need to pay to store containers. > 2\. How is a Dockerfile versioned? Can I update it? Or do I need to redeploy Once the Dockerfile is built, you'll get a URL for that. It's a immutable URL and you don't need to re-deploy again. It'll sleep if there are no HTTP requests. If there are it'll start again. > 3\. Is pricing for containers granular by time or per request to a > container? It's based on the container running time. But we'll have a another blog post on this soon with more info. > 4\. How can these Dockerfiles talk to each other? Is there an API or method > to fetch specific url's for each container? There's no internal API to communicate with each other. But every docker container has a URL. You can use our [alias]([https://zeit.co/docs/features/aliases](https://zeit.co/docs/features/aliases)) feature and communicate with each other via HTTP. ------ tapsboy This is more of a question to @rauchg and others who have used now one. When I use now within the AWS realm, are the AWS services when used in conjunction with Zeit Now containers subjected to ingress/egress costs? As it does sound like I am using a different cloud as far as AWS is concerned ------ fru2013 Is there support planned for using this in combination with docker-compose? If so would be sweet to see this integrated with Prisma - [https://www.prisma.io/](https://www.prisma.io/) ------ daveheq How can something be serverless if it habdles http requests? Does it just process requests and never serves responses, or is it just a hip-sounding misnomer? ~~~ mildweed Long story short, there's a server somewhere, but most of the configuration is abstracted away. Instead of thinking of servers, they want you to think about endpoints (which they manage somewhat efficiently for you). ------ unixhero My biggest concern with serverless is pricing. How does it fare when compared to regular Docker hosting and vps hosting? ~~~ Rauchg We will be announcing very clear pricing when it goes into GA. Needless to say, serverless makes for a much much cheaper (and robust) operation than VPS and traditional clusters. ------ netcraft My biggest problem with serverless functions is development and testing. Can I run these locally? even better offline? ~~~ Rauchg As we mentioned in the blog post, there is _zero difference_ between a `Dockerfile` you execute locally and one that you give to us. [One of the differences is performance. You'll find that we can build and execute much more quickly :)] There are many examples here: [https://github.com/zeit/now- examples](https://github.com/zeit/now-examples) ~~~ e12e So, I'm not running the same docker image, just something somewhat similar built from the same Dockerfile? ~~~ arunoda > something somewhat similar built from the same Dockerfile? Yes. We build the container based on the Dockerfile. ------ gigatexal What magic will they come up with next? Sheesh. Cool stuff, looking forward to having some time to play with it all. ------ SamLevin88 Documentation is good. Post is informative. Interesting indeed. ------ lxe I've never been more excited about a cloud platform than I am about Zeit/Now. I wish you offered stateful volumes or key value stores or something where I can persist my data so I can keep all of my stack on Zeit. ~~~ iampims I suggest you use something like DynamoDB, it fits this paradigm quite well. ------ fake-name "Serverless" So where do your functions execute? ~~~ gregknicholson I think “serverless” doesn't actually mean no server (a distributed system, like Dat); it means “don't worry about the server; we'll take care of it for you”. …or maybe that's “Cloud”. Is there a clear explanation of what “serverless” means, and how it's different from “Cloud”, suitable for semi-technical non-developers? ~~~ dx87 From what I understand, "Cloud" basically means that you still have to deal with servers, whether they be VMs or physical devices, but all of the networking and loadbalancing aspects are abstracted away. "Serverless" takes it a step further and makes it so you don't even have to deal with setting up VMs, you just give the provider the code you'd normally run on a host, and they'll automatically handle all of the infrastructure stuff, like spinning up extra hosts under heavy load.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Why the tech press is ignoring Zulily's huge IPO - creativityhurts http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2013/11/14/why-the-tech-press-is-ignoring-zulily-ipo/ ====== pedalpete This ignores possibly one of the biggest reasons nobody is talking about it, they don't have any PR. Reporters don't go get news anymore, it comes to them, that's the way the industry works. At the same time, it's amazing that a company like this could do so well and fly under the radar. ------ megfitz I work with another tech startup in the parenting/baby space and it's hard to do PR for this space. This is especially true because there aren't may PR/comms people with experiences and contacts that cross parenting and tech and in my experience, people with PR experience in the parenting space often rely on a physical product to promote and send as samples to parenting journalists, tv shows, etc. As a tech company, there's no freebie product to push. And on the tech side, despite the fact that pretty much everyone knows a parent or child, this area is still considered niche which makes it less interesting to tech press than something that appears to be a service that could appeal to anyone.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Beatles: The Original Lean Startup - waxman http://waxman.posterous.com/the-beatles-the-original-lean-startup ====== jon_hendry Oh good lord, this is just asinine. As if the Beatles were the first outfit to start on a shoestring and then make it big. I'm sure there are similar stories about early jazz artists, vaudeville acts, English music hall performers, etc. ~~~ waxman Ha fair. What's unique about The Beatles is the scale at which they transformed a simple foundation into such an unrivaled commercial and artistic success. Sure, there were earlier versions. But no other act went from shoestring to massive influence in the way that The Beatles did. ~~~ philwelch I don't understand your point here. ------ brudgers From a organizational standpoint, the Beatles collapsed in less than ten years. Not to discount the artistic qualities of the Beatles' music, but the "Rolling Stones model" has been successfully replicated far more frequently. Pick a style, stick to it for the most part, minimize experimentation, and stay in regular contact with your customers. In other words, you're probably better off to focus on being a rock n' roll band than to be the second band to use sitars. ~~~ philwelch The Beatles aren't even the best example of a commercially successful yet artistically innovative band, when compared to acts like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Who, the Grateful Dead, Rush, Queen, Iron Maiden, Radiohead, or Tool. Every single one of those bands was more innovative than the Beatles, and while none of them may have sold quite as many records as the Beatles they each maintain(ed) a very high level of popularity and success, even after changes in style. And if you're going to ask about commercial success, I would actually be curious to know whether the Beatles' album sales were really that much more lucrative than the massive arena tours half of these bands did or have been doing for decades, or the endless touring of the Grateful Dead. ------ stckrpnd10 Good comparison. Did Apple perhaps think the same thing? Their marketing (as always) is brilliant as I would expect it as a nice push for iTunes & Ping. It's hard not to like "Love Me Do." If the Beatles music changed over-time, are you suggesting a pivot from the MVP? Perhaps just a change of times? Their feat for being so liked/relevant for so long is nothing to sneeze at. Is that possible for startups? ~~~ NathanKP I think that as far as longevity goes, both music and startups can vary in how long they maintain audience interest. For instance, there are still people today who like to listen to classical music, but that audience is still much smaller than the audience who likes the latest pop star. The Beatles have maintained a very loyal audience base, but as far as sales go they too are no longer the most popular. Just like music can slowly lose popularity as new generations become interested in new genres, so web apps lose popularity over time. But I think that decay is greatly accelerated by the fast moving nature of technology. Therefore while 50 years doesn't move the Beatles into obscurity, and a couple hundred years doesn't completely erase interest in classical music, just five or ten years can sweep away a web app and replace it with something new. It might be possible to create a startup which tries to maintain a small, very loyal group of people who love the startup from the start and continue loving it as it is for a long time, but just as in the music industry the best results are achieved by constantly updating the style and techniques to match what people want today. ~~~ stckrpnd10 I agree with the above. I posed the question because it's an interesting question on how does a startup (or band) maintain its base of loyalists - especially if it stops evolving at some point. Comparing the two, I think (we'd hope) that technology will evolve enough to replace itself quicker than something like classical music. But, at some point, perhaps it won't or there's a app that can last. For instance, I'm interested in how CraigsList can keep its foothold / loyal followers? Sure has done an amazing job so far. ------ wyclif _Early successes like "Love Me Do", "Hold My Hand",_ That would be "I Wanna Hold Your Hand." ~~~ mgkimsal "Hold My Hand" was from the Rutles - it looks like the Beatles simply copied a lot of the Rutles' better material. ------ dflock Ok, race to the bottom: how about 'Adam and Eve, the original lean..' - no hang on: 'RNA: the original lean startup'. Oh: Quarks, the.. Anyway, I won the race. Can we stop now? ------ macco Nice title for link bait. You can't compare the beatles to a company - it sounds good, but it is just wrong. ------ durbin I think "lean startup" has moved into a close second behind "social media expert" as my most hated phrase. ------ Tycho Apple Records: the original incubator? ------ edw519 Interesting analogy. A few other thoughts: \- complimentary co-founders (Paul and John collaborated building stuff, George was an expert at execution on the guitar, and Ringo kept them in sync) \- release early and often (in clubs) to get user feedback \- the perfect combo: a smart-ass team (Beatles) with a kick-ass product (pop music) in a big-ass market (baby boomers). \- the right advisers and CEO: Brian Epstein and George Martin. If it wasn't for them, the Beatles might still be bootstrapping in Hamburg. ~~~ mgkimsal "release early and often" might as well be applied to their recorded output too. How many bands today would be able to pull off 2 albums of 14 tracks each per year for 2-3 years, including tours, movies and singles separate from the albums? How many could do that with _great_ songs being written along the way, seemingly progressing with each song?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Pmarchive Returns - FictiveCameron http://blog.fictivekin.com/post/50739463742/pmarchive-returns ====== shiflett Direct link if you're in a hurry: <http://pmarchive.com/>	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
BitTorrent Throttling Internet Providers Exposed - nextparadigms http://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-throttling-internet-providers-exposed-111020/ ====== praptak My pitchfork and torch is always ready but have they ruled out the possibility that the measurements are a result of something other than ISP targetting P2P? Something like ISPs just blocking bandwidth hogs? Have they tested various protocols with similar characteristics to see that only BT is throttled? ~~~ palish So... This won't answer your question directly... Just as a datapoint: I use Charter, and rarely torrent. But when I do, my connection gets "throttled" in an interesting way. It happens like clockwork: I reach maximum download speed (1.5MB/sec in my case), and after a few minutes of sustained speed, all internet traffic suddenly halts. It's as if the modem were unplugged. Between 1-5 min later, internet suddenly starts back up. Rinse and repeat. As far as I can tell, this has never happened with any other program. Not once! Only uTorrent seems to trigger it. Sometimes I can torrent for about an hour before experiencing the throttling; but it always eventually happens. I'm actually glad they throttle me, since I don't feel bad about hogging bandwidth anymore! But that's just a personal quirk... =) There is one other interesting aspect to the throttling: during the download, my upload speed is capped to 0.5kb/sec. (that is not a typo.) And when the torrent finishes downloading, the upload speed immediately drops to zero. In other words, Charter seems to be entirely blocking all Bittorrent seeding. My little conspiracy theory is that the 0.5kb/sec are "keepalive" packets, which trick the Bittorrent protocol into allowing me to download without seeding at all. If true, then that's very crafty of Charter... And no one complains, because no one tends to notice/care about upload speed. (and if they did notice, they probably say "yay, that's cool, torrenting without saturating my upload!". But I feel greedy. There's probably a mundane explanation; maybe our Linksys router is misconfigured somehow? But then why does my download speed work correctly at 1.5MBs, with upload speed capped to 0.5kbs? And when a download completes, why does the 0.5kbs drop to zero? To me, it seems like there's a mystery there. But I'm likely just stupid. =) ~~~ redthrowaway Are you on wireless? Apparently bittorrent tends to kill a lot of wireless routers, as it opens too many simultaneous connections for them to handle. I will regularly see my download speeds shoot up, only to crash to 0. Resetting my router fixes it, but the modem itself is fine. ~~~ palish Oh wow, thanks! I am on wireless. I don't suppose your router happens to be a blue-and-gray El Cheapo Walmart Linksys, like mine...? Haha. It's so ghetto; I can only forward 10 port ranges total, for example. Out of curiosity, does uploading/seeding work correctly when you torrent? ~~~ mgcross Check out Tomato firmware: <http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato> Much more control than stock firmware. It may be a matter of adjusting max connections and/or TCP timeout. ~~~ palish Thanks very much! ------ radarsat1 Took me a while to figure out the title.. hyphens, people. They work! ------ CosmicShadow If you go anywhere in public you will hear people complaining about Rogers, it's more common than seeing a Tim Hortons. Rightly so, Rogers is probably the most hate inducing company in Canada! ~~~ joejohnson Who is Tim Hortons? ~~~ nkassis A hockey player who started the huge chain of coffee/donuts restaurant. Tim Horton's restaurants are everywhere in Canada. ~~~ joejohnson Oh, thank you. I feel dumb now. ------ Legion Comcast has gone from being synonymous with Bittorrent throttling to making the "best" list for lowest throttlers. ~~~ jerf This is why when Comcast announced its bandwidth limit policy, I actually cheered rather than jeered. By solving the problem correctly, they eliminated their need to solve it incorrectly. I only sort of wish you could pay for more bandwidth, though that's an abstract concern as my worst month ever barely cracked 1/3 usage. (But I know others can have issues.) ~~~ dotBen I have it on good authority that converting your residential account to a business account (~25% more expensive) will 'remove' Comcast's bandwidth limits (or have them turn a blind eye, etc). If you don't want to pay the extra, often downgrading the line to the business equivalent of the speed tier below what you are currently using on your residential package will net out a similar monthly fee. They have better contention ratios on Business accounts and so you may even see faster speeds at that lower tier. ~~~ khafra Interesting. Will that improve latency, as well? I have a 50mpbs connection, but I'd be happy with a 10mbps if it didn't take 45 seconds to load reddit. ~~~ dotBen It might in general, but Reddit's bottleneck might be their own servers. We downgraded a 50Mbps Comcast line to a 25Mbps line and I honestly couldn't see much difference in terms of actual page load time, file download speeds etc but we saved some $ ------ mhartl Admin or submitter: Please add a necessary hyphen to the title. - BitTorrent Throttling Internet Providers Exposed + BitTorrent-Throttling Internet Providers Exposed ------ Maven911 In my neck of the woods in quebec, canada where we do not have rogers internet service, it is Bell that is usually the target of hate because of p2p throttling ~~~ noarchy We have Vidéotron as an alternative, and they don't throttle. They are, however, on the pricey side.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The deep sea diver who saved Winchester cathedral - putzdown http://classicdivebooks.customer.netspace.net.au/oeclassics-diver-walker.html ====== AstroJetson Cool story. I love these history pieces that end up being men against the problem and it gets brute forced. The cathedral site has some good history on it. http://www.winchester-cathedral.org.uk/our-heritage/our-history/building-the-cathedral/	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Fake news and false rumors reach more people than truth - yegor256a https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/03/largest-study-ever-fake-news-mit-twitter/555104/?single_page=true ====== tlb "By every common metric, falsehood consistently dominates the truth on Twitter, the study finds: Fake news and false rumors reach more people," They're comparing average views per factual tweet vs. average views per fake tweet. The problem with this approach is that a huge number of rarely-read factual tweets brings down the average. To illustrate: consider a world where 90% of the people are sensible and only read factual articles, while 10% of the people are fools who read fake clickbait. Suppose 99% of tweets are factual, and 1% are fake. You would get the same result: average views per fake article are higher than average views per factual article. And yet, in this world 90% of people read only factual articles. So the statistic may not mean what it seems to suggest. In real life, the long tail of factual articles is much larger than the long tail of fake articles. There are zillions of factual articles about product releases, or city council resolutions, or criminal convictions, or CEO replacements. So I don't think you can conclude from the study that most news being read is fake.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Getting initial traction - commaander Hi guys,<p>I am building a website but launch will be not within the next 4 weeks. However I already try to get some information on how to get initial traction to my website without any marketing budget. What are the best sources to post my website to get some people trying it out and general to draw attention to my website? (except reddit and here) ====== dexxter 1\. Run ads on Facebook, Google content network (and google search if the cpc is not too high). 2\. Sign up at forums where your target customers hang out and help people out. Have a link in your signature that points to your website. Right now, you want to get targeted traffic to your website and capture their email addresses by giving something of value. [free ebook, a discount for early adopters]. Not only will this give you a list of customers for the launch, but the ad copy and the website copy will help you understand what resonates with them [based on conversions] and will prove very useful at your launch. It is never too early to build an email list. ~~~ commaander Thanks dexxter, seems to be the only way I guess. Was kinda hoping to discover a secret ;) ~~~ alexobenauer Unfortunately, there are no silver bullets. You have to pedal hard. dexxter's comments are a great place to start. ------ BaptisteGreve Submit it to Product Hunt! [http://producthunt.com](http://producthunt.com) \- It is a great place to launch your start-up. ~~~ purans If they select your product! ProductHunt is still very closed community according to me. And, I think they seem very biased towards their selected members ~~~ janardhan I second that. Very closed knit community ------ dribel Good question. But I think using reddit is not a bad start. But I would be interested in this question too	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Show HN: A jenkins job template system (named francois) - cipherzero https://github.com/paradoxical-io/francois ====== cipherzero This is really a front-end for jenkins to manage jobs, in a templatized way. Everywhere I've worked, we've always ended up copying jenkins jobs from "known-good" jobs when we bring up a new project. If someone makes a change to a job, it can't be shared by all the jobs that are related, and I'd like to solve that. Has anyone else had this problem? ------ hammermill Must have addition to Jenkins	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Google Summer of Code Wrap-up: Twitter - ddispaltro http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2014/09/google-summer-of-code-wrap-up-twitter.html ====== hagonzalez94 Has anyone on here participated in this before? What was your experience like?	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Here's how you really use your iPhone - perplexes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzQLRPwZjIo ====== harisenbon More than how you really use your iPhone: This is the way you really make a commercial for the iPhone. That was absolutely amazing. I have no beat-box skills, no rhythm and no music, and I still want to buy that app. ~~~ somebear Fully agree. I will probably buy it and play with it for a couple of hours, and then forget all about it. ~~~ bsaunder I'll buy it for my kids. They would get much better mileage out of it than I will. ------ derefr This is the way I assumed making music worked when I was four. Glad to see it realized :) ~~~ stcredzero Before digital technology, you just got 4 pickers in the living room. If you wanted to record, you had them huddled around a mic. Sound balance? You just told the louder ones to move away. ------ chacha102 I think I will go get the app just because that video was awesome. If every iPhone app did something along those lines, showing someone actually doing really cool stuff with the App, they would probably sell more apps. Then again, if you could do really cool stuff with most Apps on the iPhone, that might also sell more apps.... ------ dasil003 If I'm not mistaken he spits 8 bars of perfect English gibberish. So that's what we sound like to foreigners. ~~~ aoeuid If you want to hear what English sounds like to foreigners, take a look at [http://www.bakadesuyo.com/what-english-sounds-like-to- foreig...](http://www.bakadesuyo.com/what-english-sounds-like-to-foreigners) ~~~ jrockway That does sound like English. ------ pedalpete neat app. Here's the link in itunes [http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/everyday- looper/id333298831?m...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/everyday- looper/id333298831?mt=8) ------ jrockway Why would you do this on your phone and not on your computer? He's already sitting in front of a computer with a video camera, mic, and audio output, after all. ~~~ dazzawazza Creativity can strike when a computer isn't near you? Not everyone has a computer? It's just s toy? There are lots of reasons to do this on a mobile device. ~~~ stcredzero By doing it with a Touch, he has a much better chance of getting chicks in a bar. ~~~ sofal I think you have to have the headphones on otherwise the feedback will ruin it. ------ RevRal I need this for my didgeridoo! ------ Roridge Awesome!I've always fancied myself as a bit of a beatboxer... anyone know if it's available on the android? ~~~ sofal The Android sound API is unfortunately very far behind the iPhone. There is as of yet no low level native API for sound whatsoever. ~~~ Frazzydee The way Apple has been able to attract developers to making all kinds of applications is really amazing. And this is despite all the bad press over the App Store's review process. Having a strong developer community is typically where Microsoft has excelled. What happened? Even the biggest incumbents have already been left in the dust. I've been looking for some 'cool', high-quality symbian apps, and as far as I can tell there aren't very many. ~~~ cheald The iPhone has market share. Developers go where the market share is. Microsoft's desktop developer community is so strong because they own such a dominant slice of the desktop market. The iPhone is no different. The Android market is making a really strong showing. It's not to the scale of the iPhone app economy yet, but with stuff like the N1 and Desire coming out, the potential for Android's market share to increase is quite strong, and with that come developers. If Android phones were to become popular enough, I have no doubt that developers would desert Apple and its punishing app store policies and gateways in record time. ~~~ Frazzydee There must be something else. Symbian still has the lion's share of the market (47%). Apple only has 15%: <http://www.canalys.com/pr/2010/r2010021.html> Is it much easier to develop for the iPhone over Symbian phones? Are iPhone users more willing to pay money? Or perhaps Apple makes the payment process easier for developers, who no longer have to set up their own payment processing? I don't know what the answer is, but it's not just market share. ------ Quarrelsome Isn't that basically just changing your IPhone into a Kaos pad? ------ albemuth I have a boss rc-2 loop station, I'm pretty sad now :( ------ scorciapino Let's just hope nobody records anything obscene so that our Apple overlords don't remove it from Their store.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How Silk Road Bounced Back from Its Multimillion-Dollar Hack - rickdale http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-silk-road-bounced-back-from-its-multimillion-dollar-hack ====== Aqueous Pretty easy : they are selling drugs.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
iMac Pro - salimmadjd https://www.apple.com/imac-pro/ ====== tcarn "As you’d expect from a pro machine, there are plenty of high-speed ports to create a high-performance workstation." haha, just like my Macbook Pro!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: A data structures book - deathflute I know there is CLRS but I am not particularly fond of its style, so I am looking for an alternative. Something similar to Algorithm design manual but with more focus on data structures.<p>Thanks ====== aaronbrethorst (I used Cormen as my algorithms textbook in college, too, but never heard it referred to as 'CLRS' until just now: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_Algorithms>) edit: Ah, i see why. Stein wasn't listed as an author until a later edition. I guess I did refer to it as 'CLR' on occasion. ~~~ deathflute Sorry, I should have been more specific.CLR is a great book, but it is too referential IMO. I am looking for an easier reading. ------ mindcrime I always liked Robert Sedgewick's books. <http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rs/> ~~~ deathflute Thanks for recommending that. I'll probably pick up his latest algorithms book. ~~~ kvdr The latest book (4th edition) though a book in the same series is not exactly in the same vein as the earlier editions. It is toned down and uses Java. I would recommend the 3rd edition based on C or C++. If you are really new to data structures and algorithms then go with the 4th ed. otherwise the 3rd. Also check out Bruno Priess's book which tackles data structures with a lot of object-oriented concepts (can be a bit of academic overload). My personal favorites are Sedgewick's C and Priess's C++ books and for algorithms, the Algorithm Design Manual.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
I'm sharing all of my app income and how I did it $28,660 so far - joeallenpro http://backstage.joeallenpro.com/category/income/ ====== OafTobark Those posts are quite uninformative and lack any details from what I can see.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
'A Terrible Slaughter Is Coming' – The Atlantic - fillskills http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/10/a-terrible-slaughter-is-coming/381157/ ====== genwin "9,000 ISIS terrorists". Geez, I wonder how many it would take before it'd be called an army.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
An American thanks Australia for its gun laws - andrewstuart http://www.theage.com.au/comment/thank-you-australia-20160615-gpjn0r.html ====== gozur88 Not everyone is going to be happy everywhere. I'm glad this guy has found a place where he fits in.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
PV Magazine: Solar Tsunami - toomuchtodo https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/01/01/solar-tsunami/ ====== toomuchtodo > Developers have applied to build 139 GWac of large-scale solar projects in > the territory of six grid operators – around five times what is currently > online across the country – and that figure doesn’t even cover the entire > United States. By any metric, we are looking at an unprecedented boom in > solar development over the next five years. Importantly, you'll notice that quite a few projects are located in MISO and PJM grids, traditionally "dirty" grids based on existing generation. Also: > It is important to remember that these grids don’t cover the entire United > States, and as such this 139 GWac does not include projects in the majority > of the South, Mountain West, Pacific Northwest and Plains States. And we > aren’t seeing these massive projects only in databases, either. As > documented in pv magazine USA’s year-end coverage, we have found large solar > projects either planned or under construction in 17 states that have not had > substantial solar markets to date.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
ZeroCater (YC W11) Takes the Pain Out of Ordering Your Company Lunch - abstractbill http://www.7x7.com/tech-gadgets/zerocater-takes-pain-our-ordering-your-company-lunch ====== davidu I have no experience with ZeroCater but I can tell you that providing food on any regular schedule for my 60 person company is a nightmare. We don't want to provide catered lunch every day, but on any given day there are probably 2 different lunch meetings that order food in to try and make a meeting more bearable. Coordinating it, paying for it, ordering and all the other details are painful. I absolutely welcome any service which aims to make this better and can actually do it. ------ ddol I've been eating ZeroCater provided food for the last two weeks, they offer a great selection and it's always of a high grade. I highly recommend them. ------ benmlang At my incubator the organizers used ZeroCater and I've heard great reviews. ~~~ jnburnham really? ~~~ benmlang Yeah, worked very well. Delicious lunch and dinner every day.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How many AMAZON EC2s should I start with for a Facebook Application? - badmash69 So I am in the midst of doing a very private MVP type of roll-out of an application: I need to run Apache + Glassfish + PostGre + MongoDB + Memcache + ActiveMQ ( a java messaging server). I fully realize that I might have gone overboard: I started with Memcache + PostGres and then I started dabbling with MongoDB and liked what it did especially for social graph data. Should I put it all in one big EC2 or should I split it among multiple EC2. MongoDB pretty much mandates at least 2 EC2 instances ( for replication). Any suggestions ? ====== js4all It depends. For a new application, you have no estimates about the number of users, number of pageview, response times and so on. I would start with one instance. When the load gets high you can switch to a larger model. When you have collected some performance data, you can better decide how to scale. To give you some idea. I have a fb app running on my platform, that got 82000 visits last month. The avg response time is under 500ms. The instance runs on 2 cores. ~~~ badmash69 whats about things like firewall etc. ? ~~~ js4all you can use a standard rule set: http 80, 443 + ssh 22 for administration ------ exline From what I can tell EC2 instances are pretty under powered for the price. There are a lot of good things about EC2, but the small instances are not that great. The good thing is you can start small and quickly grow. You are right about needed 2 instances for Mongo. Design it so that you can turn on new front end instances to handle the load as needed. This way you can start as cheap as possible and add servers (and cost) as you grow. ------ jpmc Start small with two maybe three micro instances. Try to scale out rather than up. When the time comes you can step up to the larger instances. You might want to separate some of your services into clusters and run them from a couple sets of instances. A couple of micros for the front end and a couple for the back end. You will probably save a few $$$ and have more control of your growth. ~~~ badmash69 I like this . Thanks !! ------ jeswin The curiosity is killing me. And besides this might help better answer your questions. So a few questions: 1) Can you vaguely tell us the nature of the app you are building? 2) Is it transaction heavy? How much data do you expect? 3) How many users are we talking about? EDIT: Curiosity is due to the software stack being used. ------ widgetycrank For your Mongo db, you could start with MongoHQ - the first 16MB are free. They are hosted on EC2, so bandwidth should not be a problem. <https://mongohq.com> ------ fleitz Start with 1, backup to S3 or EBS. Figure out how to overload that server. Once you have over 10,000 users start worrying about backups etc. If you server dies and nukes all their data just start over no one will even notice. (Yes, your users may but if you have 10,000 users, its 10,000 out of 300 million accounts, just get new users)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
As much as the scandal with Linode is worrying their support is second to none - andyhmltn http://i.imgur.com/Kiw9QWt.png ====== threeseed Their support is terrible when you have a real problem and non existent during an incident. ~~~ andyhmltn I would say that's completely wrong. I've never had a bad support experience with them.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How Not To Pitch Techcrunch - robjama http://i.imgur.com/4AxFN.png ====== mikerhoads I actually met Sam Bensalem at the last TechCrunch50. He's a nice guy.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A mathematical trick allows people to scatter their computer files - eru http://www.economist.com/science/tm/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12081445 ====== jlouis Reed-Solomon coding is an old fella. Whenever you have a link which is unreliable and you can't afford to retransmit packets on the link when errors are introduced, RS is your friend. Mobile phones are among the prime users of this. If I remember correctly, the PAR/PAR2 formats used on usenet is using RS- encoding as well. An alternative would be to plot the file in N-dimensional space and define a set of vectors to pinpoint it. When you have enough vectors you have the precise pinpoint. Additional vectors gives the error-correction capability. Some microsoft guys played with this idea for Bittorrent-like networks a while back. But there is a disadvantage in the time it takes to decode the data, and it probably doesn't help the swarm that much :/ Another interesting viewpoint: We might need RS-encoding on the _local_ harddisks soon (implemented in hardware or software), as it would circument the bit-error rate problem with those disks. ~~~ newt0311 What I am wondering about is how much faster TCP could be with RS for recovery instead of the current resend-packet technique. ~~~ jws I would guess it would be slower and you would break the internet. You would have to introduce enough redundancy to cope with the worst tolerable loss rate which would increase the number of bits to transmit. Worse, it is the noticing of dropped packets that tells TCP to slow down and decongest a link. If enough senders fail to decongest then packet loss on the congested links skyrockets wasting bandwidth elsewhere and doing silly things like favoring the sender with the biggest pipe. ~~~ wmf Obviously you can't just eliminate congestion control, and the coding rate should be adaptive to reduce overhead. At least one startup has gone broke on this idea already, but maybe it's possible to do it right. ------ Herring The economist doing error correction codes?? Are you guys _sure_ the LHC didn't do anything to the universe? ~~~ fgimenez I'm not sure whether I'm excited that this was in the economist, or pissed off that they reduced error correction codes to "a mathematical trick" ------ secorp We have an open source project <http://allmydata.org> that has been doing this for quite awhile. I'm also involved in the commercial side which does online storage and we've been running a business on a P2P backend (nice low costs) with non-peer clients. We tried a business model with a full peer grid and users were extremely uncomfortable storing "data" from other people on their computers. Possibly the market is better educated now and/or more used to this idea, but it may be a hard sell. ------ zandorg We learned about a Hamming distance at University. But I could never figure out when what or why it should be used. It was either predicting the future, or just sending more bits to compensate for error. But what if you get errors in the new bits? It's daft. ~~~ pmjordan Beyond a certain error rate, you will definitely end up with bad data. The point is, with error detecting or correcting codes, you're introducing redundancy by encoding the information into more bits than minimally required to represent that information. The simplest form is adding a parity bit, which allows you to detect (not correct) up to one bad bit. (so, say 1/8 bits or 12.5% if you store a byte of information in 9 bits) Using R-S codes you can crank up the number of bits used for encoding, which also drives up your error tolerance. Plus, in addition to detecting errors, you can even correct them. So it doesn't matter if some bits come up bad (or missing) - the redundancy is spread equally across _all_ of the transmitted/stored bits, so it's irrelevant which bits suffer from the failure. There aren't any "old" or "new" bits. ------ louislouis Erm.. I see tons of comments about the 'maths trick' behind the tech.. but have any of you tried out the app cos it's really amazing! A great idea, great execution. If this gets the news coverage it deserves then this could be huge I think. ------ PStamatiou Even if this is all worked out to be amazingly effective.. how are you going to convince regular users to put their data on other peoples' computers? Yes, I realize that it's all put into chunks so people won't be able to snoop on them, but just try getting that concept past my mom. It's neat but I'd rather my data on my encrypted and fast S3 account. ~~~ orib Why is S3 different? "My data is on other people's machines" is still the case there. Encrypt it before you send out the blocks, and you're exactly where S3 is. ------ eru The anonymous p2p-project Freenet does similar forward error correction --- and did it for ages.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Bloomberg Anchor Quickly Robbed Of Bitcoin After Displaying It On TV - eplanit http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/12/24/bloomberg_anchor_robbed_of_bitcoin_after_displaying_it_live_on_air.html ====== ColinWright Previous reports: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6955861](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6955861) (gizmodo.com) (3 comments) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6957735](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6957735) (marketwatch.com) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6958705](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6958705) (bloomberg.com) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6959403](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6959403) (businessinsider.com) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6961294](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6961294) (rawstory.com) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6962090](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6962090) (rt.com) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6962782](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6962782) (reddit.com)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
China steams ahead with world's fastest train - cwan http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/7230137/China-steams-ahead-with-worlds-fastest-train.html ====== rsuttongee Just like Dubai is rising ahead with the world's tallest building? ~~~ Frazzydee China actually has a sufficient population to make this a worthwhile venture.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
How Unix Works - neilkakkar https://neilkakkar.com/unix.html ====== woodandsteel This is a very good explanation. However, I think it would have been helpful if the author had provided some comparisons with how other operating systems do these sorts of things, and why its designers made their particular choices for Unix. Or maybe that could be another article he could link to. ~~~ neilkakkar Good point, thanks! This will be fun to do. ------ roryrjb A very nice overview. Now knowing all this isn't necessarily a prerequisite for getting a lot of stuff done, but I think it's very useful indeed. In my experience in the industry so far I find that most people don't know any of this and just implicitly rely on the magic going on underneath and just interact with higher level interfaces, but when things go wrong then they're stuck and rely on Google or Stack Overflow for answers, copy and pasting solutions without really knowing why it works. This is fine of course, some people might not be too interested in this aspect, and just want to solve that blocker and move on with their task, but for me it's essential. ~~~ coribuci >Note: systemd is now replacing init on Linux. It solves a few problems with init, and overall more stable. He said "Let’s start at the core - the philosophy behind Unix. Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. (no extra output, don’t insist on interactive input) Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface. " So ? How does UNIX really work ? ------ fractalf Thanks for sharing and well explained! ------ jdkdnfndnfjd I wish I had read this years ago. It’s very hard to find sensible high level overviews of technical things like this. Excellent.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
A Portable Cloud Experiment: SFTP Cloud Storage Sync - luu http://www.evanjones.ca/portable-cloud-experiment.html ====== stevenringo Have you looked at [https://rclone.org/](https://rclone.org/)? Also written in Go, and handles more cloud providers (and SFTP) than you can shake a stick at. ~~~ lathiat +1 for rclone, it is fantastic and I am using it to sync both local filesystems to backblaze b2, as well as directly from a remote SFTP filesystem also to backblaze b2 or local. Have also used it to back up my Google Drive, it exports all of the google documents as like docx or xlsx (or whatever you request). Critical for a small non profit where we use Google Drive to keep all our docs, theres no good easy way to back it up otherwise. It's really a fantastic bit of software. Having said that it seems OPs use case was really to explore "Go Cloud" so it's probably not that helpful input in the context of the actual article, but great context for anyone reading the comments that might actually want such a working solution. One thing I keep getting errors from rclone about that is sortof related to this, is that it can't sync symlinks from SFTP as it doesn't really understand them - something that can be fixed but it's an example of the fact you always have side cases to cover- even though rclone seems to have done a good job at handling many of them. ------ khc It's true that you usually get the lowest common denominator when you build abstractions, but cloud storage has a pretty broad set of useful common denominators. The fact that the author runs into so much trouble says more about the library than the approach. ------ iampims Relevant: The Law of Leaky Abstractions [1] [1] [https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/11/11/the-law-of- leaky-a...](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/11/11/the-law-of-leaky- abstractions/)	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Git-R-Done - henrick http://codetuple.com/articles/programming/SYrSnGSx7s5/git-r-done-1 ====== qwertyuiop924 Neat, but incredibly OO focused. What about us C, Haskell, and Lisp programmers? ...Than again, we should all know OO. It's just that a lot of design patterns work more simply using other paradigms and higher level languages. Strategy is barely worth mentioning, for instance.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Germany Managed to Outlaw Facebook’s Core Business Model - 5evOX5hTZ9mYa9E https://promarket.org/2020/07/10/how-germany-managed-to-outlaw-facebooks-core-business-model/ ====== arpa That's a good thing.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
An ‘extraordinarily severe’ emergency: the radioactive leak at Harborview - curtis http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2019/06/an-extraordinarily-severe-emergency-the-radioactive-leak-at-harborview/ ====== YeGoblynQueenne The International Atomic Energey Committee who is tasked with investigating this kind of accident has many reports on accidents including irradiators. It seems that these are not uncommon (as radiation accidents go), probably because the radioactive sources in irradiators are made to be moved about and occasionally transported, much more so than, e.g. the radioactive fuel in reactors, or even weapons. Lax standards or just changing circumstances such as an owner moving or going out of business (or collapsing entirely, like in the case of the USSR) has caused accidents, in the past. A famous example is the accident in Goiânia, in Brazil, in 1985. In short, a private radiotherapy institute moved house leaving behind a working caesium 137 teletherapy unit with the source still in it. Two people took parts of the unit, broke them apart and sold them to a scrap yard. The owner noticed the blue glow of the strange salt-like substance in the unit and took it home and showed it to his friends and family. People became fascinated with the sight and took fragments of it to their homes where their kids and family played with it. Eventually, someone connected the fact that people were getting sick with the strange glowing stuff and took a sample to the public health department. This led to the accident being discovered. Some 250 people were contaminated and four died while others suffered radiation sickness, but fortunately recovered. Lest this be taken as evidence of the low risk from such accidents let it just be said: you don't want your kids playing with sparkly blue radioactive stardust. IAEA accident report here: [https://www.iaea.org/publications/3684/the-radiological- acci...](https://www.iaea.org/publications/3684/the-radiological-accident-in- goiania) ~~~ thatfunkymunki This is interestingly similar to the Star Trek episode "Thine Own Self" where there is a village similarly interested in radioactive material. ~~~ mixmastamyk TNG, with an amnesiac Data and a blonde girl. The town people are not very advanced and turn against him. ------ aabajian I'm a radiology resident at UW and we haven't really heard much about this event. Harborview is a phenomenal hospital, and (in my opinion) the best one in the UW system. The University has a pretty good track record of admitting fault, even when it costs the system millions. See: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/uw- medicine...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/uw-medicine- mistakenly-exposed-information-on-nearly-1-million-patients/) UW Medicine itself is not doing well financially (they lost $75 million last year): [https://www.washington.edu/regents/files/2018/01/2018-02-B-2...](https://www.washington.edu/regents/files/2018/01/2018-02-B-2.pdf) Harborview was the only profitable hospital in the system. Seattle is the second-largest tech city in the nation and housing prices have grown astronomically, just like in SF. The difference between UW and, say, Stanford or UCSF, is that UW's patient population comes from the WWAMI states. They don't typically treat the young tech works, although I have had a couple older Boeing/Microsoft patients. UW/Harborview patients continue to be mostly low- income Seattlites and tertiary care/trauma patients from the WWAMI states. The UW takes care of poor/rural patients while existing in a wealthy city. It's a unique place to work. EDIT: I asked my fellow radiology residents about this event "We had a nuc med lecture on the event! It's super interesting how they managed it." "We had a separate nuclear medicine lecture on a Tuesday by the woman who helped managed the incident and is responsible for nuclear accidents." "Was on HMC call that night. Physics lecture on that was useful. Radiation --> reflex call radiologist is a real thing." "Cool. Honestly they should just reflex call them. I just paged them anyway." “3.6 roentgens per hour. Not great, not terrible.” ~~~ pbourke >“3.6 roentgens per hour. Not great, not terrible.” Is that a “Chernobyl” (HBO miniseries) reference? (Protip: watch it) ~~~ glitchcrab It definitely was. ------ ISL Thank you, Capitol Hill Seattle (and Margo Vansynghel in particular!), for real investigative journalism that the major Seattle papers and news outlets haven't done on this story. I have minor quibbles on the facts, and with some of the tone of the story, but I'm glad to see that a journalist was able to put in the time to research and write a long-form story about which the Seattle community will care. For the commenters lining up to throw stones -- we all find in time that our own homes are made, at least in part, of glass. It is intrinsic to any accident that at least one mistake was made, but discerning how and why the mistake came to pass almost always takes longer than anyone would like. Throwing stones too early often means that they will miss their mark, becoming mistakes of their own. _Edit: crediting Margo Vansynghel, the article 's author_ ~~~ mannykannot Criticizing people with the use of hindsight is one thing, but if "this is unacceptably risky" would have been the right response to the planned procedure beforehand, then it is still valid afterwards. ------ mirimir For context: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident) > The Goiânia accident [ɡojˈjɐniɐ] was a radioactive contamination accident > that occurred on September 13, 1987, in Goiânia, in the Brazilian state of > Goiás, after a forgotten radiotherapy source was taken from an abandoned > hospital site in the city. It was subsequently handled by many people, > resulting in four deaths. About 112,000 people were examined for radioactive > contamination and 249 were found to have significant levels of radioactive > material in or on their bodies. > In the cleanup operation, topsoil had to be removed from several sites, and > several hundred houses were demolished. All the objects from within those > houses, including personal possessions, were seized and incinerated. Time > magazine has identified the accident as one of the world's "worst nuclear > disasters" and the International Atomic Energy Agency called it "one of the > world's worst radiological incidents". ~~~ LeifCarrotson How does incinerating a contaminated radioactive object help clean up the accident? That sounds like a "Dilute the pollution by pouring it into the ocean" solution. Isn't burial the better option? ~~~ i_am_proteus Dilution is the solution to pollution. For radioactive isotopes with moderate half lives (that are not produced industrially in serious abundance), this actually works. ~~~ mirimir With dilution, for ~rapidly decaying isotopes, nobody arguably gets more than a _de minimis_ dose. Comparable to a chest X-ray, transcontinental flight, etc. But that doesn't work for isotopes that bioaccumulate, and get concentrated up the food chain. Especially if that happens faster than radioactive decay. A good example is plutonium production. Back in the 40s-60s, they'd dissolve irradiated uranium in nitric acid. With remote manipulators, behind massive steel/lead/concrete shielding. But two of the major fission fragments are gases at processing temperatures: Xe-131 and I-131. So they just blew that up the stacks. Xe-131 stable, but inert, so dilution is arguably OK. Although the I-131 half- life is only ~8 days, animals bioaccumulate it _very_ effectively. Also, it's concentrated in milk. In designing Hanford, scientists did a risk assessment for I-131 releases. They got that releasing I-131 was risky when the wind was blowing westward, toward coastal cities. But when the wind was blowing eastward, no problem. Especially because, for commercial milk production, delay from deposition on fodder to milk sales is (as I recall) on the order of weeks. However, they didn't consider subsistence farmers living around Hanford, raising cattle and goats for milk. For them, delay from deposition on fodder to milk consumption is on the order of days. Oops. So a bunch of people (mainly children) developed thyroid disorders and cancer. I could tell a similar story about radioisotope releases from above-ground testing. Which increased incidence of thyroid disorders and cancer throughout the US. But I'll just share the false assumption. Nuclear explosions inject crap into the lower stratosphere. Where it floats, just above the stratopause, driven by the jet stream. So there's not much dilution, just movement. And then, somewhere, there's an intense thunderstorm, which punches convection into the lower stratosphere. If that happens to intersect a mass of radioactive crap, it comes down right there. Almost as if the explosion had occurred right overhead. Who would have thought? If you're interested, you can find maps online that show deposition patterns for all of the above-ground test series. ------ Mbaqanga It sounds like the removal of the vial was done on-site for somewhat reasonable reasons, but in the future they ought to have a temporary structure erected during removal so that if something happens, the dust doesn't get blown and tracked everywhere. Doing this in a shipping container would have avoided all of these problems and most of the exposure to people as well. ~~~ simonh From the article: "International Isotopes contractors had set up a secure steel “chamber” wherein they would perform a crucial, most perilous part of the operation: removing the capsule with cesium-137 from the irradiator." The problem is they didn't realise it had happened straight away. They only discovered the leak later, when performing a routine wipe-down check of the area. There are still details missing though, like how come they didn't perform the wipe-down check before opening the chamber? Or did they? As the article says, it's not clear exactly what happened. ~~~ jcims I’m curious how you don’t know that you cut into the capsule. It’s supposedly a white powder, wouldn’t it make a cloud? Also if this is possible wouldn’t you put sone contingencies in place, like mount the grinder on limited travel arm or something? Sound’s like they just went at it with a $30 DeWalt. The whole thing seems kind of ridiculous. ~~~ kevan When you're grinding there's significant metal and abrasive dust thrown into the air. Given the airflow they generate and how fine the radioactive powder is even a small nick in the capsule could end up with a lot of material in the air without you noticing it. A jig to limit grinder motion sounds like really cheap insurance to prevent this failure mode. ~~~ ethbro I'm curious if the capsules like this are standardized or one-off. The description of the tungsten plug makes it sound like the latter. In which case a more sane procedure would probably mandate some examination of the capsule, formulation of a plan off-site, then implementation of said plan. ------ bluescrn A decommissioning process that involves bringing cutting tools very near to the capsule of very dangerous stuff sounds like a bit of a design flaw? ~~~ a3n Maybe they never considered decommissioning in the design. Which itself would be a pretty severe flaw. ~~~ rootusrootus Perhaps the main focus is making it extremely difficult to access the radioactive material. So, no locks or anything that easy, you weld the thing shut. Makes it harder to decommission, but also makes it harder to steal. ------ dustfinger >This could destroy the careers of people who have been working their entire lives on research meant to save lives and improve public health and hospital outcomes That is devastating for the researchers. ~~~ closeparen Happened on my campus. Freezers even had temperature alarms monitored by the university police, but no one reacted to the alerts. Among other things, an 80 year longitudinal study was lost. ------ jcims In looking for the construction of the capsule I found this article about a similar contamination issue with Cesium. Reading through the Events section that discovers theft and attempts at recovering the Cesium because of its blue glow are mind blowing. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident#Events](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident#Events) ~~~ andbberger Thanks for sharing. Makes one think about all those efforts to come up with a way to make nuclear waste sites look scary for millenia. Of course, you could just bury it somewhere and not leave a mark, but that's no fun. ------ dustfinger Why is the cleanup crew not wearing safety gear? Given how easily the cesium powder disperses in the air, at the very least, I would want a mask to prevent the cesium from entering my lungs. ~~~ hanniabu Costs over safety. If a regulation isn't enforced, it will likely be forgone. ------ sunebeck I wonder why they named the picture 'Tsjernobyl-1.jpg'. [https://i2.wp.com/www.capitolhillseattle.com/wp- content/uplo...](https://i2.wp.com/www.capitolhillseattle.com/wp- content/uploads/2019/06/Tsjernobyl-1.jpg?fit=1700%2C832) ~~~ cesarb Even more bizarre, the gallery page for that picture has a slug of "on-the- list-before-stonewall-film-ginsberg-poetry-festival-at-volunteer-park-seattle- poetry-slam": [http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2019/06/on-the-list- before...](http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2019/06/on-the-list-before- stonewall-film-ginsberg-poetry-festival-at-volunteer-park-seattle-poetry- slam/tsjernobyl-1/) (and the image is titled "Leak 2"). There are other interesting images in that gallery that aren't on the article (or perhaps are visible only if you have javascript enabled). ~~~ boogiewoogie SEO is my first inclination ------ jpindar According to the NRC notice, it's a JL Shepard Mark 168A [https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event- status/...](https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event- status/event/2019/20190510en.html) There's some pictures of a similar device here: [https://www.bnl.gov/nsrl/grsf/](https://www.bnl.gov/nsrl/grsf/) It doesn't show why you'd need a grinder to take it apart, though. ------ Stay_frostJebel About half of this machine's radioactive material leaked into the immediate vicinity after the radioactive source was removed from a larger machine as part of routine decommissioning. ~~~ heisenbit Basically equivalent to a dirty nuclear bomb going off with an under-powered dispersing mechanism. That building is not easy to clean up if at that is at all possible. ~~~ jsjohnst Cesium-137 cleanup isn’t especially difficult compared to some other radioactive agents. A rather painful vigorous scrubbing (speaking from experience) is effective for external exposure and Prussian Blue is a moderately effective antidote for internal exposure that will likely prevent loss of life. No radiation contamination is “safe” and Cesium-137 is particularly nasty, but cleanup is definitely possible without long term effects (like at the Chernobyl site) generally. ------ lifeisstillgood Reading this I realise that the idea of "Health and Safety" is a good one. Make a plan for the bad things that could happen and you just follow the plan - "Action On" it is called in the mklitary I believe The bit where someone asks "did you turn off the HVAC in the building once the radioactive particles went airborne?" is a classic example. ------ devit It doesn't seem ideal to require cutting to remove a radioactive capsule. If done for security, a lock seems better. ------ bahmboo This is a well researched article. Although mistakes can be made it's a bit puzzling that there was so much miscommunication. Maybe too many orgs involved. That Seattle fire department wasn't even informed beforehand seems clumsy. ~~~ lostlogin It seems like the miscommunication was intentional, but that’s just my interpretation. ------ dmix > Things were far from being back to normal, however. That the HVAC system was > shut off to prohibit the cesium from spreading through the building was a > good thing. But as it stayed off, in the days after the leak, the building > started to heat up. Which meant the freezers in the building, which keep > research specimen at -80°C, had to work harder to stay cool. Some were > failing. Important research samples were in danger. > “Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, labor, and samples are > being lost on a daily basis. This could destroy the careers of people who > have been working their entire lives on research meant to save lives and > improve public health and hospital outcomes,” an anonymous source told KIRO. > UW/Harborview personnel moved the contents of some units to other freezers > nearby about a week after the spill, said Susan Gregg of the UW Medicine. > “If they were showing signs of failure, the materials were moved to other > freezers,” Gregg said. “We were very diligent that none of those research > specimens were damaged.” No specimens were found to have any contamination, > she added. The animals, mostly rodents, held in the building’s vivarium, > have all been moved to another location as well. It took about two weeks for > the HVAC system to be turned back on. I love how they use a FUD quote from an "anonymous" source while following it up with an actual source which claims the complete opposite... People love to be dramatic. Also an interesting fact from Wikipedia: >> Accidental ingestion of caesium-137 can be treated with Prussian blue, which binds to it chemically and reduces the biological half-life to 30 days. [https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Caesium-137#/Health_risk_of_radi...](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Caesium-137#/Health_risk_of_radioactive_caesium) ~~~ YeGoblynQueenne Regarding the accidental ingestion of Cs-137. The radioactive source in this case, according to the article, was in the form of talkum powder. The danger with this kind of material is not that it will be accidentally ingested, but that it will find its way into the respiratory system, where it can't be easily bound by Prussian blue. Accidents with irradiation sources of Caesium 137 have previously happened. See my other comment in this thread on the radiological accident in Goiania, Brazil, in the 1980's, where the source of the radiation was a radiotherapy unit with a Cs-137 source, that was sold for scrap and taken to peoples' homes for the strange blue glow it emited. With radiation risks, the idea is to find a balance: don't go mad with fear, but don't treat it like it's trivial, either. I mean, it's not like because you can neutralise Cs-137 with Prussian blue, you can go ahead and solve some in your afternoon tea and imbibe it, and no worries. ~~~ dmix That's interesting but I wasn't making any sort of statement that Prussian Blue is some sort of solution to these problems. I just found it to be an interesting fact. ~~~ YeGoblynQueenne Yes, your comment makes this clear. My bad then. Apologies for the misunderstanding. ------ arzel Great article, surprised this is the first time I’m hearing about this. ------ stefan_ If this is how involved _removing_ the thing is, how exactly was it built? And if you can't transport it inside the irradiator, how did the irradiator get there? ~~~ droithomme > how did the irradiator get there On a flatbed or inside a semi, down the freeway, then installed with a combination of cranes and forklifts. The irradiator goes out on the truck, but in modern times they don't want the cesium in it because of less perceived risk of truck accidents and terrorist hijackings. The small radioactive capsule can be sent more discretely via a smaller vehicle, and a security escort. ------ goldenkey What surprises me the most is that they did the cutting in an open room (door open) without taping over the HVAC vents. They literally could have made a makeshift tent out of plastic tarps to do the cutting inside. Such bad safety precautions... ~~~ ricardobeat The article says they put up a steel chamber for that purpose, but it’s totally unclear what exactly happened. ------ jswizzy As a former Rad worker who has even cleaned up a radioactive spill I'm just shacking my head at the all the "experts" in the comments. ~~~ lasdfas It took me a while to realize this. It wasn't until there was a post about something I was an expert on. I finally realized people respond here often with little knowledge or even no knowledge at all. It made me question everything I read before on this site. ~~~ edoceo It's not just commenters on this site; planet wide problem. ~~~ krapp This site (or at least the community around it) does claim a degree of highbrow intellectual merit and deep technical expertise that places it in a self-determined echelon above the rest of the web, which one can readily see in the disdain that commenters here have for Reddit, other social media sites, most non-technical fields and people in general. So it is ironic and kind of funny when you realize that, apart from a few outliers, Hacker News is just as infested with trolls, fools, posers and Dunning-Krueger as the rest of the web. It is just a more polite /g/ without the pictures and memes. That's not an insult, just an observation of how deeply the sets of users here, there, on Reddit and elsewhere overlap. ~~~ LMYahooTFY This seems demonstrably false. If only, at the least, because the guidelines for HN discourage pointless and inane commentary. Reddit is very likely 95% funny one liners on the most active threads. There are observably obvious differences, even if you don't agree with any inferences made from them. ~~~ krapp I suspect you're confusing the quality of commentary with the quality of a commenter's expertise. Someone's comment can read as if they know what they're talking about, being well written and civil, without that commenter actually knowing what they're talking about. Also, Reddit is not 95% funny one liners in technical or programming forums, and the guidelines for those often also discourage pointless and inane commentary. Go look at /r/askhistorians for one example. Reddit does have a higher tolerance for humor and memes than HN, but humorlessness is not necessarily an indicator of quality. ~~~ LMYahooTFY To your second point, I agree, but I was comparing specifically the common top posts ("front page") to one another. HN is obviously more niche, but the ways in which its niche is defined are what I contend do, in fact, result in a better quality of discussion. To your first point, I also concede that this phenomenon certainly does happen, but would counter with the notion that this probably happens with every conversation ever, with it perhaps tapering off in materials science discussions amongst experts. I'd assert that it's happening right now, given that neither of us are likely informed enough to empirically support our assertions here. We're merely sharing our rather vague impressions. ~~~ krapp >I'd assert that it's happening right now, given that neither of us are likely informed enough to empirically support our assertions here. We're merely sharing our rather vague impressions. That's fair. A lot of what happens here can probably be described as anecdotes sparring with other anecdotes. ------ Katzenjammer Jesus that read like a big ol fuck up. The lack of preparation for a spill, despite having all these people on site, is the most glaring issue. SFD didn’t even get a heads up.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Steve Jobs vowed to 'destroy' Google Android, called it a 'stolen product' - abstractwater http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/20/steve_jobs_vowed_to_destroy_google_android_called_it_a_stolen_product.html ====== AlexV This reminds me of Guy Kawasaki's mission statement from his Apple days: "In 1983, when I started in the Macintosh Division of Apple Computer, beating IBM was our reason for existence. We wanted to send IBM back to the typewriter business holding its Selectric type-writer balls. In 1987, our reason for existence became beating Windows and Microsoft. We wanted to crush Microsoft and force Bill Gates to get a job ﬂipping ﬁsh at the Pike Place Market." \-- www.guykawasaki.com/the-art-of-the-start/artprop.pdf	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Best books you read in 2019? - dudurocha Mine were the Three Body Problem and The Unicorn Project ====== void_nill Kozo Yamamura, Too Much Stuff - Capitalism in Crisis	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
SQLite3 Hash Code 2018 - mingodad https://github.com/mingodad/sqlite3-hashcode-2018/blob/master/hashcode2018.sql ====== mingodad Hello ! I've been looking ath the HASHCODE 2018 competition and got interested on the problem proposition: Task Given a list of pre-booked rides in a city and a fleet of self-driving vehicles, assign the rides to vehicles, so that riders get to their destinations on time. For every ride that finishes on time (or early), you will earn points proportional to the distance of that ride; plus an additional bonus if the ride also started precisely on time. It took me a while to get something working and at end I saw that I was basically using sqlite3 capabilities to do the data manipulation tasks and only needed a few calculations for the rest. So I tried to see if I also could make those calculations inside sqlite3 and after a while I could get it to work: [https://github.com/mingodad/sqlite3-hashcode-2018/blob/maste...](https://github.com/mingodad/sqlite3-hashcode-2018/blob/master/hashcode2018.sql) As I stated there: By no means I claim that solutions like this (stretching sqlite3) are good practice. Take it as an example that demonstrates several capabilities of sqlite3 in a hack/compact way. So I'm showing it here just in case it can help/invite other people to find imaginative ways where sqlite3 can be used to solve problems. Cheers ! ~~~ brudgers Would this comment make a good source code comment? ~~~ mingodad In fact most of the referred comment come from the source code. The main idea was to see how minimal a working solution could be achieved.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Imaging Edge Webcam - woldemariam https://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/app/webcam/en/ ====== murgindrag ... and I'd love to have this if it just modified the firmware of my camera to act as a webcam native webcam. As is, this is a cumbersome kludge. Perhaps future cameras will have this option. But I doubt it. My expectation is that the camera market will continue to shrink as companies like Sony have completely missed the concepts of ecosystems, open standards, compatibility, and people wanting to do anything Sony didn't predict. At the same time, the imaging market will continue to grow with lower-quality but standard, compatible devices like cell phones and webcams. It also leaves most A-mount users out. Even cameras one generation back are left out (A99, A77). Sony basically shat on its entire userbase in the move to E-mount. Perhaps Canon, Nikon, or Panasonic will pick them up. But I doubt that too. There's an increasingly narrow niche which big cameras are forcing themselves into. Older users aren't always moving from dying mounts. Newer users expect apps and interoperability. I'm wondering how much longer this whole house-of- cards will last. Olympus just gave up claiming "market conditions." The problem is always outside.... ~~~ strogonoff > My expectation is that the camera market will continue to shrink as > companies like Sony have completely missed the concepts of ecosystems, open > standards, compatibility, and people wanting to do anything Sony didn't > predict. … Newer users expect apps and interoperability. I think Sigma is getting it right. FP can natively act as a regular webcam. From get go, they are publishing an SDK for developers and 3D models of the body and all accessories as STEP files for accessory makers. Frankly, their approach is a breath of fresh air. ~~~ murgindrag Sigma seems to get everything right. They're cameras are a bit niche. That makes sense for a minor player, but I'm not in their niche. I think if they made one a bit more mainstream, with: * a native mirrorless mount * converters to take A-mount, F-Mount, and EF-Mount lenses natively (and perhaps more) they'd sell like hotcakes, though. Sigma just might do it. Even out of feeling bad for Alpha users left out in the cold by Sony, and be surprised when people buy it. ~~~ strogonoff Frankly I’d be more than fine if Sigma did not spend effort on adding another mount (M lenses, EF lenses can be adapted to L) and instead focused on their full-frame Foveon body or came up with something else crazy and uncompromising. I love to bits their maverick approach. ------ thunfisch Soo many questions. Why is this not a firmware addition? Why is this windows only? Why the ILCE-5100, but not the ILCE-6000 which is _super_ popular? Why is the PlayMemories App stuff still a unusable mess? Sorry, was maybe a nice idea in the beginning, but the execution is disappointing. I'll stick to my capture cards and stay on the lookout for a proper camera. The zcam e2-m4 is looking better every day I have to work with this stuff... ~~~ dimatura No answers here... for me the meta-question is why are they so bad at user- facing software? (I don't really know about the quality of the firmware, it gets the job done, I guess). I like their cameras -- I own an NEX5N, a6000 and an RX100 -- but interacting with their mobile and desktop apps is always such a terrible experience. ~~~ m463 Hardware companies never do software well. It's a freebie. Strangely, some are starting to do software better -- so they can monetize data they collect. ~~~ starky I wouldn't say never. But it really comes down to how a business views their product. If they view it as a hardware product that is supported by some software, then it will be shit. If they view it as a whole end-to-end solution where the entire experience is the product, then they will more often do it well. Photography is weird in that the people still buying cameras pretty much just want the same old Canon/Nikon controls and menus that they are used to, and have a workflow already in place. It is really difficult to get these people out of that mindset even though it would be amazing if you were able to take a photo, it would get automatically uploaded to the cloud, where you can access and edit/publish it through any device. Even though this would benefit a lot of professionals, many wouldn't want to change their workflow to allow this. ------ novok At this point I would just buy a $12 HDMI to USB dongle and side step the need for any of these apps. Way better, no new software required, no OS specifics. Ex: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daS5RHVAl2U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daS5RHVAl2U) ~~~ Larrikin This didn't exist at the beginning of the pandemic. The entire setup for mounting my fairly expensive A6000 Sony camera was a little under 75 bucks except for the hdmi to usb dongle that shot up hundreds of dollars from its fairly expensive base. I was totally on the fence for months about buying, thinking maybe I could get into twitch or something to justify it since the price wasn't just totally out of reach. It seemed like newer models had work arounds and I was just going to have to bite the bullet for being an early mirrorless adapter. Then those dongles came out. Work perfectly for every use case a regular consumer would need one for. ------ djabatt I own Sony cameras and like them, but all the software they make to connect to the camera is bad period. They should just enable the camera to act as a webcam via firmware update. ------ heavymark Was pretty surprised no mac option or even a timeline for mac availability but looking at the resolution supported which isn’t even HD seems we are not missing out on much and more just a feature that want to be able to say they have like the competitors even if not useable. ------ numpad0 SIGMA fp works as a UVC camera, out of the box and without special drivers[0] [0]: [https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2020/the-sigma-fp-as-a-live- stre...](https://blog.sigmaphoto.com/2020/the-sigma-fp-as-a-live-stream-web- camera/) ------ supernova87a Aside from the lens, sensor size, and the huge amount of power to run a consumer camera compared to a webcam on your laptop, are there major differences in the output format or video processing? Turning one into the other always seems like such a big deal/problem. ~~~ numpad0 Sensor driver ICs operate in different modes for still and video, so probably developer culture between different trains of cameras diverged due to that, earlier in the technology. Cameras are also still a bag of trickster type computer, lots of ASICs talking. “Main CPU” is probably still a thing. So disturbing the path from light to FAT file entry may or may not open some can of worms. Lastly I can’t imagine a team of Linux hackers in a large Japanese corporate writing UVC gadget driver for company platform... entertainment value and frictionless operation are very neglected/disincentivized part of engineering in the country. Maybe the second point is the most relevant. They’re not designed to encode and export video to PC and that itself is a challenge. ~~~ supernova87a Ah, super interesting and that's what I was curious about. Yes, I imagined that there were a lot of written specs requested from the group responsible for building this app/interface... ------ MR4D If the raspberry pi with its new 12MP sensor could run as a webcam, someone could make a ton of money packaging them up for HN users. ========= EDIT - for a Mac ~~~ franga2000 I don't see why it couldn't. There's already a UVC USB Gadget driver in mainline Linux and the rest is just a matter of beating the video stream into submission using Gstreamer or something similar. But just the BOM alone would cost well over 100€, which can usually get you a used compact camera and one of those dir cheap capture cards everyone is talking about these days and is probably comparable in quality but actually has things like autofocus and a decent zoom range. ------ LargoLasskhyfv /me pats his antique PowerSchrott with CHDK... ------ bitxbit No mic so it’s sort of half baked. ~~~ VectorLock Camera mics are trash, if you care enough to use a Sony camera as a webcam you probably have a microphone you were already using. ------ seaghost Unfortunately, Windows only. ------ hendry Prays for Archlinux support. ~~~ franga2000 Looking at the camera list and the fact it doesn't need new firmware, they're probably just using the existing tethering preview functionality. The same can be achieved with gphoto2 piped to v4l2loopback (using ffmpeg to transcode). Something like: $ sudo modprobe v4l2loopback exclusive_caps=1 $ gphoto2 --stdout --capture-movie \| ffmpeg -i - -vcodec rawvideo -pix_fmt yuv420p -threads 0 -f v4l2 /dev/video0 ~~~ swanee I think this is essentially the same thing Nikon is doing as well with the beta webcam utility. ------ 29athrowaway Take the Sony logo, cover the lower half and invert it. Don't comment on your findings.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Mobile social network mig33 sends twice as many messages as twitter - tomh- http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/12/mig33-twice-messages-twitter/ ====== dnsworks Is mig33 still around? I thought they laid off almost all of their staff and took their assets back to Singapore where the founder was from.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
The Top Five Supercomputers, Illustrated - joubee http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/the-top-five-supercomputers-illustrated/ ====== mrb This article is from last year. It misses pictures of the new #2 supercomputer, Nebulae. They are very hard to find, but I did find some: <http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=18> ------ kragen The Top500 list is progressively less relevant, as none of the large warehouse-scale computers are on it, because their size is secret.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: What are the less known HN-like forums? - soheil With the rise of cancel culture and remotely offensive language being censored where can one go to find a community more tolerant of opposing views? Of course, I realize the moment the name of those communities are revealed, if any exist, they will be filled with people seeking to ban them.<p>I guess that makes this more of a meta-question, not a direct question. How can I learn about more open communities that may exist on the net where I can have the type of discussion with people that was possible 15-20 years ago?<p>Topics of interest: hacking (actual, not just in the name), startups, entrepreneurship, internet marketing. ====== krapp >Topics of interest: hacking (actual, not just in the name), startups, entrepreneurship, internet marketing. I'm curious why you feel being able to use offensive language and express "opposing views" (whatever that means, I assume politics) is particularly germaine to high quality discussion of those topics. If all you're looking for is a place where you can be an edgelord without consequence then there's always /g/ and 8chan (on the dark web as 8kun,) and maybe Voat and Gab. ------ catacombs > With the rise of cancel culture and remotely offensive language being > censored where can one go to find a community more tolerant of opposing > views? If you're itching to call someone the N or F word or want to brood about the sudden rise of feminism in America, may I suggest finding a pen pal and communicating that way? ~~~ soheil Wow that seems awfully presumptuous! ------ rhengles I would guess Reddit is where I would start looking for it. ~~~ soheil Reddit is huge I’m sure great communities exist, but I’m not sure if that recommendation gets me any closer to an answer than just starting from the internet as a whole.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Every Developer Needs a Rubber Duck and You’re the One - theglus http://blog.workingon.co/every-developer-needs-a-rubber-duck-and-youre-the-one/ ====== drProton great blog post!	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Ask HN: Ways to support people losing their job by Covid-19 - Madrigal As more cities across the US ban large gatherings, more and more businesses are being put either on reduced hours or being closed altogether, for we don't know how long. This will result in a lot of staff being at least temporarily being laid off. Is there any organization that focus on these workers that I can contribute to? If not, what's the best way to help? ====== munk-a In theory the best organization to handle this is the US Government, no charitable organization could hope to cover the costs of lost wages - though Bezos might be able to float everyone for a while if he decided to act personally. ------ duxup I think the best route is to write your representatives and ask them to provide support from the government. If you know someone you can help but the US government has entire systems dedicated to helping folks out who are out of work. ------ Dahoon Tell them to vote for someone else next time and cross your fingers.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }
Microsoft will charge new fees to customers using AWS and other clouds - ycombonator https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-licensing-azure-google-cloud-amazon-web-services-fees-2019-8 ====== Corrado The key quote from the article is: "Beginning October 1, 2019, on-premises licenses purchased without Software Assurance and mobility rights cannot be deployed with dedicated hosted cloud services offered by the following public cloud providers: Microsoft, Alibaba, Amazon (including VMware Cloud on AWS), and Google. They will be referred to as "Listed Providers."" It seems like Microsoft is reverting to it's bad-old-ways in terms of licensing tricks and traps. ------ ycombonator Non-paywall related article [https://apple.news/ALxmYHTlcM-y1rWm2acnNPw](https://apple.news/ALxmYHTlcM-y1rWm2acnNPw) ------ dorfsmay Paywall.	{ "pile_set_name": "HackerNews" }

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