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Well, why?
Because. Cynthia, look, John was right. Graham is strange. Very strange. You don't want to get involved with him.
Because. Cynthia, look, John was right. Graham is strange. Very strange. You don't want to get involved with him.
What the hell happened over there? Did he make a pass at you?
What the hell happened over there? Did he make a pass at you?
No!
No!
Then what's the story, what's this "strange" bullshit all of a sudden? Is he drowning puppies, or what?
Then what's the story, what's this "strange" bullshit all of a sudden? Is he drowning puppies, or what?
No, it's nothing like that.
No, it's nothing like that.
Well, what? Is he dangerous?
Well, what? Is he dangerous?
No, he's not dangerous. Not physically.
No, he's not dangerous. Not physically.
Well, what, then?
Well, what, then?
I don't want to talk about it.
I don't want to talk about it.
Then why'd you call me?
Then why'd you call me?
I don't know.
He just asked me questions.
What kinds of questions?
What kinds of questions?
Questions about sex.
Questions about sex.
Well, like what did he ask, exactly?
Oh, okay. I think I get it.
What do you get?
What do you get?
Well, they must be something sexual, because Ann gets freaked out by that shit. Are these tapes of you having sex with these girls or something?
Well, they must be something sexual, because Ann gets freaked out by that shit. Are these tapes of you having sex with these girls or something?
Not exactly.
Not exactly.
Well, either you are or you aren't. Which is it?
Well, either you are or you aren't. Which is it?
Why don't you let me tape you?
Why don't you let me tape you?
Doing what?
Doing what?
Talking.
Talking.
About what?
About what?
Sex. Your sexual history, your sexual preferences.
Sex. Your sexual history, your sexual preferences.
What makes you think I'd discuss that with you?
What makes you think I'd discuss that with you?
Nothing.
Nothing.
You just want to ask me questions?
You just want to ask me questions?
I just want to ask you questions.
I just want to ask you questions.
And that's all?
And that's all?
That's all.
That's all.
Is this how you get off or something? Taping women talking about their sexual experiences?
Is this how you get off or something? Taping women talking about their sexual experiences?
Yes.
Yes.
Would anybody else see the tape?
Would anybody else see the tape?
Absolutely not. They are for my private use only.
Absolutely not. They are for my private use only.
How do we start?
How do we start?
I turn on the camera. You start talking.
I turn on the camera. You start talking.
And you ask questions, right?
And you ask questions, right?
Yes.
Yes.
How long will it take?
How long will it take?
That depends on you. One woman only used three minutes. Another filled up three two hour tapes.
That depends on you. One woman only used three minutes. Another filled up three two hour tapes.
Can I see some of the other tapes to get an idea of what --
Can I see some of the other tapes to get an idea of what --
No.
No.
Do I sit or stand?
Do I sit or stand?
Whichever you prefer.
Whichever you prefer.
I'd rather sit. Are you ready?
I'd rather sit. Are you ready?
Just a moment.
I am now recording. Tell me your name.
Cynthia Patrice Bishop.
Cynthia Patrice Bishop.
Describe for me your first sexual experience.
Describe for me your first sexual experience.
My first sexual experience or the first time I had intercourse?
My first sexual experience or the first time I had intercourse?
Your first sexual experience.
Your first sexual experience.
I was... eight years old. Michael Green, who was also eight, asked if he could watch me take a pee. I said he could if I could watch him take one, too. He said okay, and then we went into the woods behind our house. I got this feeling he was chickening out because he kept saying, "Ladies first!" So I pulled down my underpants and urinated, and he ran away before I even finished.
I was... eight years old. Michael Green, who was also eight, asked if he could watch me take a pee. I said he could if I could watch him take one, too. He said okay, and then we went into the woods behind our house. I got this feeling he was chickening out because he kept saying, "Ladies first!" So I pulled down my underpants and urinated, and he ran away before I even finished.
Was it ever a topic of conversation between the two of you afterward?
Was it ever a topic of conversation between the two of you afterward?
No. He kind of avoided me for the rest of the summer, and then his family moved away. To Cleveland, actually.
No. He kind of avoided me for the rest of the summer, and then his family moved away. To Cleveland, actually.
How unfortunate. So when did you finally get to see a penis?
How unfortunate. So when did you finally get to see a penis?
When I was fourteen.
When I was fourteen.
Live, or in a photograph or film of some sort?
Live, or in a photograph or film of some sort?
Very much live.
Very much live.
What did you think? Did it look like you expected?
What did you think? Did it look like you expected?
Not really. I didn't picture it with veins or ridges or anything, I thought it would be smooth, like a test tube.
Not really. I didn't picture it with veins or ridges or anything, I thought it would be smooth, like a test tube.
Were you disappointed?
Were you disappointed?
No. If anything, after I looked at it awhile, it got more interesting. It had character, you know?
No. If anything, after I looked at it awhile, it got more interesting. It had character, you know?
What about when you touched it? What did you expect it to feel like, and then what did it really feel like?
What about when you touched it? What did you expect it to feel like, and then what did it really feel like?
It was warmer than I thought it would be, and the skin was softer than it looked. It's weird. Thinking about it now, the organ itself seemed like a separate thing, a separate entity to me. I mean, after he pulled it out and I could look at it and touch it, I completely forgot that there was a guy attached to it. I remember literally being startled when the guy spoke to me.
It was warmer than I thought it would be, and the skin was softer than it looked. It's weird. Thinking about it now, the organ itself seemed like a separate thing, a separate entity to me. I mean, after he pulled it out and I could look at it and touch it, I completely forgot that there was a guy attached to it. I remember literally being startled when the guy spoke to me.
What did he say?
What did he say?
He said that my hand felt good.
He said that my hand felt good.
Then what happened?
Then what happened?
Then I started moving my hand, and then he stopped talking.
John doesn't have sex with Ann anymore.
Is that what he tells you?
Is that what he tells you?
He doesn't have to tell me.
No.
No? Not even one more?
No? Not even one more?
I never do more than one. I'm sorry.
I never do more than one. I'm sorry.
I can't talk you into it?
I can't talk you into it?
No. You'll have to get somebody else.
No. You'll have to get somebody else.
Now who the hell is going to do that for me?
Now who the hell is going to do that for me?
I'm sure a substantial number of men in this town would volunteer.
I'm sure a substantial number of men in this town would volunteer.
But I want you to do it, I want somebody who will ask the right questions and everything, somebody I can play to and feel safe because you can't do anything.
But I want you to do it, I want somebody who will ask the right questions and everything, somebody I can play to and feel safe because you can't do anything.
Ouch. Okay, I deserved that. Cynthia, don't you understand? After the first time it's just not spontaneous. There's no edge anymore. Look at the tapes, there is only one date on each label. I have never taped anyone twice.
Ouch. Okay, I deserved that. Cynthia, don't you understand? After the first time it's just not spontaneous. There's no edge anymore. Look at the tapes, there is only one date on each label. I have never taped anyone twice.
So make an exception.
So make an exception.
No.
No.
How about if you record over the one we already made? You could have the same date and not use another tape. Who would know?
How about if you record over the one we already made? You could have the same date and not use another tape. Who would know?
I would.
I would.
Well, what the hell am I supposed to do?
Well, what the hell am I supposed to do?
Cynthia, I don't know.
Cynthia, I don't know.
I can't believe you're doing this after I let you tape me.
I can't believe you're doing this after I let you tape me.
I'm sorry. I can't do it.
I'm sorry. I can't do it.
Goddamit, give me my tape, then.
Goddamit, give me my tape, then.
No.
I wish I could tell everybody that Ann's a lousy lay. Beautiful, popular, Ann Bishop Millaney.
Could be risky.
Could be risky.
Well, maybe I could just start a rumor, then.
Well, maybe I could just start a rumor, then.
No, I mean doing it at my house.
No, I mean doing it at my house.
Afraid of getting caught?
Afraid of getting caught?
Maybe.
Maybe.
You should be. Can I meet this friend of yours?
You should be. Can I meet this friend of yours?
Cynthia, I don't think you want to, I mean, you should see the way he dresses. I really think he's in a bad way.
Cynthia, I don't think you want to, I mean, you should see the way he dresses. I really think he's in a bad way.
I'm intrigued.
I'm intrigued.
You're intrigued?
You're intrigued?
Sure. Maybe he's the man I'm looking for. Then I won't have to fuck worried husbands all the time.
It's just so blatantly stupid, I have a hard time believing you did it.
What's so stupid about it?
What's so stupid about it?
That you... you don't even know the guy.
That you... you don't even know the guy.
Well, you know him, he's a friend of yours, do you think he can be trusted?
Well, you know him, he's a friend of yours, do you think he can be trusted?
Shit, after what you've told me, I don't know. I should've known, when he showed up dressed like some arty brat.