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Well, why?
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Because. Cynthia, look, John was right. Graham is strange. Very strange. You don't want to get involved with him.
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Because. Cynthia, look, John was right. Graham is strange. Very strange. You don't want to get involved with him.
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What the hell happened over there? Did he make a pass at you?
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What the hell happened over there? Did he make a pass at you?
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No!
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No!
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Then what's the story, what's this "strange" bullshit all of a sudden? Is he drowning puppies, or what?
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Then what's the story, what's this "strange" bullshit all of a sudden? Is he drowning puppies, or what?
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No, it's nothing like that.
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No, it's nothing like that.
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Well, what? Is he dangerous?
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Well, what? Is he dangerous?
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No, he's not dangerous. Not physically.
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No, he's not dangerous. Not physically.
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Well, what, then?
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Well, what, then?
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I don't want to talk about it.
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I don't want to talk about it.
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Then why'd you call me?
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Then why'd you call me?
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I don't know.
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He just asked me questions.
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What kinds of questions?
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What kinds of questions?
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Questions about sex.
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Questions about sex.
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Well, like what did he ask, exactly?
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Oh, okay. I think I get it.
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What do you get?
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What do you get?
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Well, they must be something sexual, because Ann gets freaked out by that shit. Are these tapes of you having sex with these girls or something?
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Well, they must be something sexual, because Ann gets freaked out by that shit. Are these tapes of you having sex with these girls or something?
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Not exactly.
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Not exactly.
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Well, either you are or you aren't. Which is it?
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Well, either you are or you aren't. Which is it?
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Why don't you let me tape you?
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Why don't you let me tape you?
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Doing what?
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Doing what?
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Talking.
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Talking.
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About what?
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About what?
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Sex. Your sexual history, your sexual preferences.
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Sex. Your sexual history, your sexual preferences.
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What makes you think I'd discuss that with you?
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What makes you think I'd discuss that with you?
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Nothing.
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Nothing.
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You just want to ask me questions?
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You just want to ask me questions?
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I just want to ask you questions.
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I just want to ask you questions.
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And that's all?
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And that's all?
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That's all.
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That's all.
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Is this how you get off or something? Taping women talking about their sexual experiences?
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Is this how you get off or something? Taping women talking about their sexual experiences?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Would anybody else see the tape?
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Would anybody else see the tape?
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Absolutely not. They are for my private use only.
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Absolutely not. They are for my private use only.
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How do we start?
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How do we start?
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I turn on the camera. You start talking.
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I turn on the camera. You start talking.
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And you ask questions, right?
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And you ask questions, right?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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How long will it take?
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How long will it take?
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That depends on you. One woman only used three minutes. Another filled up three two hour tapes.
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That depends on you. One woman only used three minutes. Another filled up three two hour tapes.
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Can I see some of the other tapes to get an idea of what --
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Can I see some of the other tapes to get an idea of what --
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No.
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No.
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Do I sit or stand?
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Do I sit or stand?
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Whichever you prefer.
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Whichever you prefer.
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I'd rather sit. Are you ready?
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I'd rather sit. Are you ready?
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Just a moment.
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I am now recording. Tell me your name.
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Cynthia Patrice Bishop.
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Cynthia Patrice Bishop.
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Describe for me your first sexual experience.
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Describe for me your first sexual experience.
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My first sexual experience or the first time I had intercourse?
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My first sexual experience or the first time I had intercourse?
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Your first sexual experience.
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Your first sexual experience.
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I was... eight years old. Michael Green, who was also eight, asked if he could watch me take a pee. I said he could if I could watch him take one, too. He said okay, and then we went into the woods behind our house. I got this feeling he was chickening out because he kept saying, "Ladies first!" So I pulled down my underpants and urinated, and he ran away before I even finished.
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I was... eight years old. Michael Green, who was also eight, asked if he could watch me take a pee. I said he could if I could watch him take one, too. He said okay, and then we went into the woods behind our house. I got this feeling he was chickening out because he kept saying, "Ladies first!" So I pulled down my underpants and urinated, and he ran away before I even finished.
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Was it ever a topic of conversation between the two of you afterward?
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Was it ever a topic of conversation between the two of you afterward?
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No. He kind of avoided me for the rest of the summer, and then his family moved away. To Cleveland, actually.
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No. He kind of avoided me for the rest of the summer, and then his family moved away. To Cleveland, actually.
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How unfortunate. So when did you finally get to see a penis?
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How unfortunate. So when did you finally get to see a penis?
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When I was fourteen.
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When I was fourteen.
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Live, or in a photograph or film of some sort?
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Live, or in a photograph or film of some sort?
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Very much live.
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Very much live.
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What did you think? Did it look like you expected?
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What did you think? Did it look like you expected?
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Not really. I didn't picture it with veins or ridges or anything, I thought it would be smooth, like a test tube.
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Not really. I didn't picture it with veins or ridges or anything, I thought it would be smooth, like a test tube.
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Were you disappointed?
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Were you disappointed?
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No. If anything, after I looked at it awhile, it got more interesting. It had character, you know?
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No. If anything, after I looked at it awhile, it got more interesting. It had character, you know?
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What about when you touched it? What did you expect it to feel like, and then what did it really feel like?
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What about when you touched it? What did you expect it to feel like, and then what did it really feel like?
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It was warmer than I thought it would be, and the skin was softer than it looked. It's weird. Thinking about it now, the organ itself seemed like a separate thing, a separate entity to me. I mean, after he pulled it out and I could look at it and touch it, I completely forgot that there was a guy attached to it. I remember literally being startled when the guy spoke to me.
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It was warmer than I thought it would be, and the skin was softer than it looked. It's weird. Thinking about it now, the organ itself seemed like a separate thing, a separate entity to me. I mean, after he pulled it out and I could look at it and touch it, I completely forgot that there was a guy attached to it. I remember literally being startled when the guy spoke to me.
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What did he say?
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What did he say?
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He said that my hand felt good.
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He said that my hand felt good.
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Then what happened?
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Then what happened?
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Then I started moving my hand, and then he stopped talking.
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John doesn't have sex with Ann anymore.
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Is that what he tells you?
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Is that what he tells you?
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He doesn't have to tell me.
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No.
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No? Not even one more?
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No? Not even one more?
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I never do more than one. I'm sorry.
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I never do more than one. I'm sorry.
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I can't talk you into it?
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I can't talk you into it?
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No. You'll have to get somebody else.
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No. You'll have to get somebody else.
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Now who the hell is going to do that for me?
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Now who the hell is going to do that for me?
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I'm sure a substantial number of men in this town would volunteer.
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I'm sure a substantial number of men in this town would volunteer.
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But I want you to do it, I want somebody who will ask the right questions and everything, somebody I can play to and feel safe because you can't do anything.
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But I want you to do it, I want somebody who will ask the right questions and everything, somebody I can play to and feel safe because you can't do anything.
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Ouch. Okay, I deserved that. Cynthia, don't you understand? After the first time it's just not spontaneous. There's no edge anymore. Look at the tapes, there is only one date on each label. I have never taped anyone twice.
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Ouch. Okay, I deserved that. Cynthia, don't you understand? After the first time it's just not spontaneous. There's no edge anymore. Look at the tapes, there is only one date on each label. I have never taped anyone twice.
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So make an exception.
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So make an exception.
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No.
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No.
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How about if you record over the one we already made? You could have the same date and not use another tape. Who would know?
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How about if you record over the one we already made? You could have the same date and not use another tape. Who would know?
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I would.
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I would.
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Well, what the hell am I supposed to do?
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Well, what the hell am I supposed to do?
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Cynthia, I don't know.
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Cynthia, I don't know.
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I can't believe you're doing this after I let you tape me.
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I can't believe you're doing this after I let you tape me.
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I'm sorry. I can't do it.
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I'm sorry. I can't do it.
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Goddamit, give me my tape, then.
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Goddamit, give me my tape, then.
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No.
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I wish I could tell everybody that Ann's a lousy lay. Beautiful, popular, Ann Bishop Millaney.
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Could be risky.
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Could be risky.
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Well, maybe I could just start a rumor, then.
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Well, maybe I could just start a rumor, then.
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No, I mean doing it at my house.
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No, I mean doing it at my house.
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Afraid of getting caught?
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Afraid of getting caught?
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Maybe.
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Maybe.
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You should be. Can I meet this friend of yours?
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You should be. Can I meet this friend of yours?
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Cynthia, I don't think you want to, I mean, you should see the way he dresses. I really think he's in a bad way.
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Cynthia, I don't think you want to, I mean, you should see the way he dresses. I really think he's in a bad way.
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I'm intrigued.
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I'm intrigued.
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You're intrigued?
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You're intrigued?
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Sure. Maybe he's the man I'm looking for. Then I won't have to fuck worried husbands all the time.
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It's just so blatantly stupid, I have a hard time believing you did it.
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What's so stupid about it?
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What's so stupid about it?
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That you... you don't even know the guy.
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That you... you don't even know the guy.
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Well, you know him, he's a friend of yours, do you think he can be trusted?
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Well, you know him, he's a friend of yours, do you think he can be trusted?
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Shit, after what you've told me, I don't know. I should've known, when he showed up dressed like some arty brat.
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