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vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2b64v
|
ig1q8eb
| 1,657,757,965 | 1,657,748,940 | 238 | 71 |
I work for a law firm in the US. I highly suggest getting an attorney, particularly for the women that he had harassed within the last 180 days. You can always refer back to previous incidents, but the statute of limitations for sexual harassment claims is about two years from the date of incident, so I'm not sure how far back y'all can go for them. The EEOC process gets a little complicated when you work as a public employee, hence why I suggest seeing a legal representative who can help you out with your case. Good luck to y'all and I hope this disgusting human gets what's coming to him.
|
You have received excellent advice. The only thing I can add is that if you have proof to any of these claims tied to a work email, phone, etc., make sure you forward them to a personal device/email/whatever. Try to do so under the radar. If one of you get fired in retaliation (which is illegal) for reporting his sexual harassment, you will lose access to work accounts. You will want any and all proof to show to an employment attorney if you do get fired. Even if you don't get fired, you might want to consult an attorney if conditions worsen while IA and the EEOC conduct their investigations.
| 1 | 9,025 | 3.352113 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig1ihl0
|
ig2b64v
| 1,657,745,815 | 1,657,757,965 | 46 | 238 |
My guess is John has some kind of political cover that's keeping him in that position. In the modern HR landscape this is a huge liability. This might rise to the level of hostile work environment that may lead to a lawsuit, especially if the ladies gather enough evidence and sue the agency rather than just John himself. Given John's pervasive history I would imagine there are a lot more incidents that haven't been brought to light.
|
I work for a law firm in the US. I highly suggest getting an attorney, particularly for the women that he had harassed within the last 180 days. You can always refer back to previous incidents, but the statute of limitations for sexual harassment claims is about two years from the date of incident, so I'm not sure how far back y'all can go for them. The EEOC process gets a little complicated when you work as a public employee, hence why I suggest seeing a legal representative who can help you out with your case. Good luck to y'all and I hope this disgusting human gets what's coming to him.
| 0 | 12,150 | 5.173913 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig20yhu
|
ig2b64v
| 1,657,753,464 | 1,657,757,965 | 25 | 238 |
OP You are in a very sticky situation. It is clear that John's boss is not doing his job, and that the HR is not only not hearing about the other complaints but is actively trying to make the problem go away without ever doing anything. It is a hard point as this is the police and they are in a union. There is a clear cut case of sexual harassment present, a pattern that is well established, and in the last part, retaliation. Now since no one is doing anything, unfortunately all of you have 2 choices, 1) do nothing, though that will change nothing or if all of you are ready to get another job, and deal with some of the fallout, I would say lawyer up and have the victims of this launch a class action law suit against the department, along with going to the state labor board and file a formal complaint along with the EEOC as well. Alot of what you posted is highly illegal. And the fact that this is documented well like that, is highly damming against them. As this is also connected with the police, the city will also likely be dragged into the lawsuit as well. But you need an employment lawyer who specialized in dealing with city government and law enforcement kinds of cases. A call to the state bar association would be very much the first call you make to get the name of a lawyer or 2 who can and is willing to take on the case.
|
I work for a law firm in the US. I highly suggest getting an attorney, particularly for the women that he had harassed within the last 180 days. You can always refer back to previous incidents, but the statute of limitations for sexual harassment claims is about two years from the date of incident, so I'm not sure how far back y'all can go for them. The EEOC process gets a little complicated when you work as a public employee, hence why I suggest seeing a legal representative who can help you out with your case. Good luck to y'all and I hope this disgusting human gets what's coming to him.
| 0 | 4,501 | 9.52 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2b64v
|
ig1k581
| 1,657,757,965 | 1,657,746,475 | 238 | 13 |
I work for a law firm in the US. I highly suggest getting an attorney, particularly for the women that he had harassed within the last 180 days. You can always refer back to previous incidents, but the statute of limitations for sexual harassment claims is about two years from the date of incident, so I'm not sure how far back y'all can go for them. The EEOC process gets a little complicated when you work as a public employee, hence why I suggest seeing a legal representative who can help you out with your case. Good luck to y'all and I hope this disgusting human gets what's coming to him.
|
As others have said, report up. Provide verifiable evidence to strengthen your claims. Start collecting evidence ASAP. Have people provide signed testimonies of their stories. This will significantly strengthen your arguments. Also, contact a lawyer who has a reputation for working against the police.
| 1 | 11,490 | 18.307692 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2b64v
|
ig1zbg8
| 1,657,757,965 | 1,657,752,755 | 238 | 4 |
I work for a law firm in the US. I highly suggest getting an attorney, particularly for the women that he had harassed within the last 180 days. You can always refer back to previous incidents, but the statute of limitations for sexual harassment claims is about two years from the date of incident, so I'm not sure how far back y'all can go for them. The EEOC process gets a little complicated when you work as a public employee, hence why I suggest seeing a legal representative who can help you out with your case. Good luck to y'all and I hope this disgusting human gets what's coming to him.
|
>I am not the one who said this originally, but 14 might catch you a charge of harassment in my jx. ​ > 8 and #14 are harassment by phone, which is a crime in many jurisdictions. ​ I'd certainly be interested in looking at a specific state statute that reaches the conduct in #8 and #14. Which jurisdictions, specifically, u/johnmomdoe ?
| 1 | 5,210 | 59.5 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig1qy7r
|
ig1q8eb
| 1,657,749,234 | 1,657,748,940 | 144 | 71 |
HR is never there to help you, they exist to limit the liability of the company. If HR is ignoring sexual harassment that is a direct violation of title 7 of the civil rights act. Report this to the EEOC, and they will do an investigation to determine whether or not to sue your employer.
|
You have received excellent advice. The only thing I can add is that if you have proof to any of these claims tied to a work email, phone, etc., make sure you forward them to a personal device/email/whatever. Try to do so under the radar. If one of you get fired in retaliation (which is illegal) for reporting his sexual harassment, you will lose access to work accounts. You will want any and all proof to show to an employment attorney if you do get fired. Even if you don't get fired, you might want to consult an attorney if conditions worsen while IA and the EEOC conduct their investigations.
| 1 | 294 | 2.028169 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig1qy7r
|
ig1ihl0
| 1,657,749,234 | 1,657,745,815 | 144 | 46 |
HR is never there to help you, they exist to limit the liability of the company. If HR is ignoring sexual harassment that is a direct violation of title 7 of the civil rights act. Report this to the EEOC, and they will do an investigation to determine whether or not to sue your employer.
|
My guess is John has some kind of political cover that's keeping him in that position. In the modern HR landscape this is a huge liability. This might rise to the level of hostile work environment that may lead to a lawsuit, especially if the ladies gather enough evidence and sue the agency rather than just John himself. Given John's pervasive history I would imagine there are a lot more incidents that haven't been brought to light.
| 1 | 3,419 | 3.130435 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig1qy7r
|
ig1k581
| 1,657,749,234 | 1,657,746,475 | 144 | 13 |
HR is never there to help you, they exist to limit the liability of the company. If HR is ignoring sexual harassment that is a direct violation of title 7 of the civil rights act. Report this to the EEOC, and they will do an investigation to determine whether or not to sue your employer.
|
As others have said, report up. Provide verifiable evidence to strengthen your claims. Start collecting evidence ASAP. Have people provide signed testimonies of their stories. This will significantly strengthen your arguments. Also, contact a lawyer who has a reputation for working against the police.
| 1 | 2,759 | 11.076923 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2du8p
|
ig1q8eb
| 1,657,759,149 | 1,657,748,940 | 73 | 71 |
Tl;dr- I’m a lawyer but not your lawyer. Go get one. There is an obvious pattern here and the EEOC would likely act. John is a disrespectful, shitty, and hubristically gross creep. There is no excuse for keeping him around. If a person’s conduct at work is so harassing, pervasive, and targets a protected class or right (gender among them, which includes sexual harassment) it can create a hostile work environment, which is against the law. If your work does nothing to stop it, or not enough to stop it, they will be held liable and required to do something about it (possibly provide compensation as well). Get a real employment lawyer to learn the details of your case and navigate the specifics. You need to go to the EEOC or the state agency that handles these claims. I’d bet (though I’m not an expert) you have a strong case. Full disclaimer: I’m a lawyer, but: (a) not your lawyer, (b) this is not my area of practice, (c) this is not legal advice, do not rely on it to make any decisions.
|
You have received excellent advice. The only thing I can add is that if you have proof to any of these claims tied to a work email, phone, etc., make sure you forward them to a personal device/email/whatever. Try to do so under the radar. If one of you get fired in retaliation (which is illegal) for reporting his sexual harassment, you will lose access to work accounts. You will want any and all proof to show to an employment attorney if you do get fired. Even if you don't get fired, you might want to consult an attorney if conditions worsen while IA and the EEOC conduct their investigations.
| 1 | 10,209 | 1.028169 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig1ihl0
|
ig1q8eb
| 1,657,745,815 | 1,657,748,940 | 46 | 71 |
My guess is John has some kind of political cover that's keeping him in that position. In the modern HR landscape this is a huge liability. This might rise to the level of hostile work environment that may lead to a lawsuit, especially if the ladies gather enough evidence and sue the agency rather than just John himself. Given John's pervasive history I would imagine there are a lot more incidents that haven't been brought to light.
|
You have received excellent advice. The only thing I can add is that if you have proof to any of these claims tied to a work email, phone, etc., make sure you forward them to a personal device/email/whatever. Try to do so under the radar. If one of you get fired in retaliation (which is illegal) for reporting his sexual harassment, you will lose access to work accounts. You will want any and all proof to show to an employment attorney if you do get fired. Even if you don't get fired, you might want to consult an attorney if conditions worsen while IA and the EEOC conduct their investigations.
| 0 | 3,125 | 1.543478 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig1k581
|
ig1q8eb
| 1,657,746,475 | 1,657,748,940 | 13 | 71 |
As others have said, report up. Provide verifiable evidence to strengthen your claims. Start collecting evidence ASAP. Have people provide signed testimonies of their stories. This will significantly strengthen your arguments. Also, contact a lawyer who has a reputation for working against the police.
|
You have received excellent advice. The only thing I can add is that if you have proof to any of these claims tied to a work email, phone, etc., make sure you forward them to a personal device/email/whatever. Try to do so under the radar. If one of you get fired in retaliation (which is illegal) for reporting his sexual harassment, you will lose access to work accounts. You will want any and all proof to show to an employment attorney if you do get fired. Even if you don't get fired, you might want to consult an attorney if conditions worsen while IA and the EEOC conduct their investigations.
| 0 | 2,465 | 5.461538 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2du8p
|
ig1ihl0
| 1,657,759,149 | 1,657,745,815 | 73 | 46 |
Tl;dr- I’m a lawyer but not your lawyer. Go get one. There is an obvious pattern here and the EEOC would likely act. John is a disrespectful, shitty, and hubristically gross creep. There is no excuse for keeping him around. If a person’s conduct at work is so harassing, pervasive, and targets a protected class or right (gender among them, which includes sexual harassment) it can create a hostile work environment, which is against the law. If your work does nothing to stop it, or not enough to stop it, they will be held liable and required to do something about it (possibly provide compensation as well). Get a real employment lawyer to learn the details of your case and navigate the specifics. You need to go to the EEOC or the state agency that handles these claims. I’d bet (though I’m not an expert) you have a strong case. Full disclaimer: I’m a lawyer, but: (a) not your lawyer, (b) this is not my area of practice, (c) this is not legal advice, do not rely on it to make any decisions.
|
My guess is John has some kind of political cover that's keeping him in that position. In the modern HR landscape this is a huge liability. This might rise to the level of hostile work environment that may lead to a lawsuit, especially if the ladies gather enough evidence and sue the agency rather than just John himself. Given John's pervasive history I would imagine there are a lot more incidents that haven't been brought to light.
| 1 | 13,334 | 1.586957 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2du8p
|
ig20yhu
| 1,657,759,149 | 1,657,753,464 | 73 | 25 |
Tl;dr- I’m a lawyer but not your lawyer. Go get one. There is an obvious pattern here and the EEOC would likely act. John is a disrespectful, shitty, and hubristically gross creep. There is no excuse for keeping him around. If a person’s conduct at work is so harassing, pervasive, and targets a protected class or right (gender among them, which includes sexual harassment) it can create a hostile work environment, which is against the law. If your work does nothing to stop it, or not enough to stop it, they will be held liable and required to do something about it (possibly provide compensation as well). Get a real employment lawyer to learn the details of your case and navigate the specifics. You need to go to the EEOC or the state agency that handles these claims. I’d bet (though I’m not an expert) you have a strong case. Full disclaimer: I’m a lawyer, but: (a) not your lawyer, (b) this is not my area of practice, (c) this is not legal advice, do not rely on it to make any decisions.
|
OP You are in a very sticky situation. It is clear that John's boss is not doing his job, and that the HR is not only not hearing about the other complaints but is actively trying to make the problem go away without ever doing anything. It is a hard point as this is the police and they are in a union. There is a clear cut case of sexual harassment present, a pattern that is well established, and in the last part, retaliation. Now since no one is doing anything, unfortunately all of you have 2 choices, 1) do nothing, though that will change nothing or if all of you are ready to get another job, and deal with some of the fallout, I would say lawyer up and have the victims of this launch a class action law suit against the department, along with going to the state labor board and file a formal complaint along with the EEOC as well. Alot of what you posted is highly illegal. And the fact that this is documented well like that, is highly damming against them. As this is also connected with the police, the city will also likely be dragged into the lawsuit as well. But you need an employment lawyer who specialized in dealing with city government and law enforcement kinds of cases. A call to the state bar association would be very much the first call you make to get the name of a lawyer or 2 who can and is willing to take on the case.
| 1 | 5,685 | 2.92 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2du8p
|
ig1k581
| 1,657,759,149 | 1,657,746,475 | 73 | 13 |
Tl;dr- I’m a lawyer but not your lawyer. Go get one. There is an obvious pattern here and the EEOC would likely act. John is a disrespectful, shitty, and hubristically gross creep. There is no excuse for keeping him around. If a person’s conduct at work is so harassing, pervasive, and targets a protected class or right (gender among them, which includes sexual harassment) it can create a hostile work environment, which is against the law. If your work does nothing to stop it, or not enough to stop it, they will be held liable and required to do something about it (possibly provide compensation as well). Get a real employment lawyer to learn the details of your case and navigate the specifics. You need to go to the EEOC or the state agency that handles these claims. I’d bet (though I’m not an expert) you have a strong case. Full disclaimer: I’m a lawyer, but: (a) not your lawyer, (b) this is not my area of practice, (c) this is not legal advice, do not rely on it to make any decisions.
|
As others have said, report up. Provide verifiable evidence to strengthen your claims. Start collecting evidence ASAP. Have people provide signed testimonies of their stories. This will significantly strengthen your arguments. Also, contact a lawyer who has a reputation for working against the police.
| 1 | 12,674 | 5.615385 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2du8p
|
ig1zbg8
| 1,657,759,149 | 1,657,752,755 | 73 | 4 |
Tl;dr- I’m a lawyer but not your lawyer. Go get one. There is an obvious pattern here and the EEOC would likely act. John is a disrespectful, shitty, and hubristically gross creep. There is no excuse for keeping him around. If a person’s conduct at work is so harassing, pervasive, and targets a protected class or right (gender among them, which includes sexual harassment) it can create a hostile work environment, which is against the law. If your work does nothing to stop it, or not enough to stop it, they will be held liable and required to do something about it (possibly provide compensation as well). Get a real employment lawyer to learn the details of your case and navigate the specifics. You need to go to the EEOC or the state agency that handles these claims. I’d bet (though I’m not an expert) you have a strong case. Full disclaimer: I’m a lawyer, but: (a) not your lawyer, (b) this is not my area of practice, (c) this is not legal advice, do not rely on it to make any decisions.
|
>I am not the one who said this originally, but 14 might catch you a charge of harassment in my jx. ​ > 8 and #14 are harassment by phone, which is a crime in many jurisdictions. ​ I'd certainly be interested in looking at a specific state statute that reaches the conduct in #8 and #14. Which jurisdictions, specifically, u/johnmomdoe ?
| 1 | 6,394 | 18.25 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig1k581
|
ig20yhu
| 1,657,746,475 | 1,657,753,464 | 13 | 25 |
As others have said, report up. Provide verifiable evidence to strengthen your claims. Start collecting evidence ASAP. Have people provide signed testimonies of their stories. This will significantly strengthen your arguments. Also, contact a lawyer who has a reputation for working against the police.
|
OP You are in a very sticky situation. It is clear that John's boss is not doing his job, and that the HR is not only not hearing about the other complaints but is actively trying to make the problem go away without ever doing anything. It is a hard point as this is the police and they are in a union. There is a clear cut case of sexual harassment present, a pattern that is well established, and in the last part, retaliation. Now since no one is doing anything, unfortunately all of you have 2 choices, 1) do nothing, though that will change nothing or if all of you are ready to get another job, and deal with some of the fallout, I would say lawyer up and have the victims of this launch a class action law suit against the department, along with going to the state labor board and file a formal complaint along with the EEOC as well. Alot of what you posted is highly illegal. And the fact that this is documented well like that, is highly damming against them. As this is also connected with the police, the city will also likely be dragged into the lawsuit as well. But you need an employment lawyer who specialized in dealing with city government and law enforcement kinds of cases. A call to the state bar association would be very much the first call you make to get the name of a lawyer or 2 who can and is willing to take on the case.
| 0 | 6,989 | 1.923077 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig20yhu
|
ig1zbg8
| 1,657,753,464 | 1,657,752,755 | 25 | 4 |
OP You are in a very sticky situation. It is clear that John's boss is not doing his job, and that the HR is not only not hearing about the other complaints but is actively trying to make the problem go away without ever doing anything. It is a hard point as this is the police and they are in a union. There is a clear cut case of sexual harassment present, a pattern that is well established, and in the last part, retaliation. Now since no one is doing anything, unfortunately all of you have 2 choices, 1) do nothing, though that will change nothing or if all of you are ready to get another job, and deal with some of the fallout, I would say lawyer up and have the victims of this launch a class action law suit against the department, along with going to the state labor board and file a formal complaint along with the EEOC as well. Alot of what you posted is highly illegal. And the fact that this is documented well like that, is highly damming against them. As this is also connected with the police, the city will also likely be dragged into the lawsuit as well. But you need an employment lawyer who specialized in dealing with city government and law enforcement kinds of cases. A call to the state bar association would be very much the first call you make to get the name of a lawyer or 2 who can and is willing to take on the case.
|
>I am not the one who said this originally, but 14 might catch you a charge of harassment in my jx. ​ > 8 and #14 are harassment by phone, which is a crime in many jurisdictions. ​ I'd certainly be interested in looking at a specific state statute that reaches the conduct in #8 and #14. Which jurisdictions, specifically, u/johnmomdoe ?
| 1 | 709 | 6.25 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig1k581
|
ig2zya4
| 1,657,746,475 | 1,657,769,422 | 13 | 19 |
As others have said, report up. Provide verifiable evidence to strengthen your claims. Start collecting evidence ASAP. Have people provide signed testimonies of their stories. This will significantly strengthen your arguments. Also, contact a lawyer who has a reputation for working against the police.
|
If you're a civil servant that's even better because you have plenty of options up to and including your union. Now, what I would do is I would create an email and BCC yourself a labor attorney and anyone else who's involved in willing to take action and compile everything that happened every bit of sexual harassment recordings scanning everything from write-ups paperwork everybody who made an effort to report John. Now, you're going to send an email to everybody within your supervisors and HR chain of command from the top to the mayor's office. Most government municipalities have an office of human rights which covers sexual harassment include them. You're basically using a nuclear option. Because if this person has gotten away with sexual harassment for this long you might as well. It is important to also get people outside your agency involved like generally there's a master Civil Service office etc because this might be kept internally and you don't want that. Also, since you're a civil servant depending on where you work most states or municipalities have an master or primary office of civil service or personell division that covers agencies use of civil servants I would CC them as well now several things going to happen after you do this. Most municipalities have a mandatory reporting rule regulation law would have you where as these people within the chain of command May come knowledgeable of a sexual harassment claim they all have to report it to the proper authorities and also investigate. You have a document in an email it pushes these people to act. You're going to have to go outside agency command because it seems like somebody's covering for John or group of somebody's. The key to when reporting sexual harassment and no one's doing anything is to involve as many higher-ups as possible because not everybody's part of whatever clique is covering for John so now everybody's going to have a fire under their behind and going to damage control mode. Do. Not. Meet with HR without a representative present and/or some sort of recording device going after the meeting send an email to HR covering the point of the meeting to cover yourself so they can't claim you didn't say anything. This also covers you in case they try to retaliate against you. If any supervisor tries to talk to you about this ask him to put in an email or have it done with a union representative or person of your choosing that could be witness.
| 0 | 22,947 | 1.461538 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2y8qc
|
ig2zya4
| 1,657,768,566 | 1,657,769,422 | 6 | 19 |
HR's job is to protect the companies interests. Sometimes companies interests are aligned with your personal interests sometimes not. If you think interests are not aligned consult an employment law attorney.
|
If you're a civil servant that's even better because you have plenty of options up to and including your union. Now, what I would do is I would create an email and BCC yourself a labor attorney and anyone else who's involved in willing to take action and compile everything that happened every bit of sexual harassment recordings scanning everything from write-ups paperwork everybody who made an effort to report John. Now, you're going to send an email to everybody within your supervisors and HR chain of command from the top to the mayor's office. Most government municipalities have an office of human rights which covers sexual harassment include them. You're basically using a nuclear option. Because if this person has gotten away with sexual harassment for this long you might as well. It is important to also get people outside your agency involved like generally there's a master Civil Service office etc because this might be kept internally and you don't want that. Also, since you're a civil servant depending on where you work most states or municipalities have an master or primary office of civil service or personell division that covers agencies use of civil servants I would CC them as well now several things going to happen after you do this. Most municipalities have a mandatory reporting rule regulation law would have you where as these people within the chain of command May come knowledgeable of a sexual harassment claim they all have to report it to the proper authorities and also investigate. You have a document in an email it pushes these people to act. You're going to have to go outside agency command because it seems like somebody's covering for John or group of somebody's. The key to when reporting sexual harassment and no one's doing anything is to involve as many higher-ups as possible because not everybody's part of whatever clique is covering for John so now everybody's going to have a fire under their behind and going to damage control mode. Do. Not. Meet with HR without a representative present and/or some sort of recording device going after the meeting send an email to HR covering the point of the meeting to cover yourself so they can't claim you didn't say anything. This also covers you in case they try to retaliate against you. If any supervisor tries to talk to you about this ask him to put in an email or have it done with a union representative or person of your choosing that could be witness.
| 0 | 856 | 3.166667 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2zya4
|
ig1zbg8
| 1,657,769,422 | 1,657,752,755 | 19 | 4 |
If you're a civil servant that's even better because you have plenty of options up to and including your union. Now, what I would do is I would create an email and BCC yourself a labor attorney and anyone else who's involved in willing to take action and compile everything that happened every bit of sexual harassment recordings scanning everything from write-ups paperwork everybody who made an effort to report John. Now, you're going to send an email to everybody within your supervisors and HR chain of command from the top to the mayor's office. Most government municipalities have an office of human rights which covers sexual harassment include them. You're basically using a nuclear option. Because if this person has gotten away with sexual harassment for this long you might as well. It is important to also get people outside your agency involved like generally there's a master Civil Service office etc because this might be kept internally and you don't want that. Also, since you're a civil servant depending on where you work most states or municipalities have an master or primary office of civil service or personell division that covers agencies use of civil servants I would CC them as well now several things going to happen after you do this. Most municipalities have a mandatory reporting rule regulation law would have you where as these people within the chain of command May come knowledgeable of a sexual harassment claim they all have to report it to the proper authorities and also investigate. You have a document in an email it pushes these people to act. You're going to have to go outside agency command because it seems like somebody's covering for John or group of somebody's. The key to when reporting sexual harassment and no one's doing anything is to involve as many higher-ups as possible because not everybody's part of whatever clique is covering for John so now everybody's going to have a fire under their behind and going to damage control mode. Do. Not. Meet with HR without a representative present and/or some sort of recording device going after the meeting send an email to HR covering the point of the meeting to cover yourself so they can't claim you didn't say anything. This also covers you in case they try to retaliate against you. If any supervisor tries to talk to you about this ask him to put in an email or have it done with a union representative or person of your choosing that could be witness.
|
>I am not the one who said this originally, but 14 might catch you a charge of harassment in my jx. ​ > 8 and #14 are harassment by phone, which is a crime in many jurisdictions. ​ I'd certainly be interested in looking at a specific state statute that reaches the conduct in #8 and #14. Which jurisdictions, specifically, u/johnmomdoe ?
| 1 | 16,667 | 4.75 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2zya4
|
ig2p6di
| 1,657,769,422 | 1,657,764,223 | 19 | 4 |
If you're a civil servant that's even better because you have plenty of options up to and including your union. Now, what I would do is I would create an email and BCC yourself a labor attorney and anyone else who's involved in willing to take action and compile everything that happened every bit of sexual harassment recordings scanning everything from write-ups paperwork everybody who made an effort to report John. Now, you're going to send an email to everybody within your supervisors and HR chain of command from the top to the mayor's office. Most government municipalities have an office of human rights which covers sexual harassment include them. You're basically using a nuclear option. Because if this person has gotten away with sexual harassment for this long you might as well. It is important to also get people outside your agency involved like generally there's a master Civil Service office etc because this might be kept internally and you don't want that. Also, since you're a civil servant depending on where you work most states or municipalities have an master or primary office of civil service or personell division that covers agencies use of civil servants I would CC them as well now several things going to happen after you do this. Most municipalities have a mandatory reporting rule regulation law would have you where as these people within the chain of command May come knowledgeable of a sexual harassment claim they all have to report it to the proper authorities and also investigate. You have a document in an email it pushes these people to act. You're going to have to go outside agency command because it seems like somebody's covering for John or group of somebody's. The key to when reporting sexual harassment and no one's doing anything is to involve as many higher-ups as possible because not everybody's part of whatever clique is covering for John so now everybody's going to have a fire under their behind and going to damage control mode. Do. Not. Meet with HR without a representative present and/or some sort of recording device going after the meeting send an email to HR covering the point of the meeting to cover yourself so they can't claim you didn't say anything. This also covers you in case they try to retaliate against you. If any supervisor tries to talk to you about this ask him to put in an email or have it done with a union representative or person of your choosing that could be witness.
|
Contact your department’s internal affairs department. It also might be called professional standards. They investigate wrongdoing by commissioned and civilian employees both.
| 1 | 5,199 | 4.75 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2m9ni
|
ig2zya4
| 1,657,762,899 | 1,657,769,422 | 3 | 19 |
Not a lawyer. Only knowledgeable about the state of California, but you didn't share a location. As others have said, EEOC is the appropriate place the file a complaint, the limitations on reporting are 300 days, but the older incidents could be used to show a pattern of behavior. In California, supervisors who are aware of the ongoing harassment and do nothing can be personally liable. You can sue every supervisor or HR person who was aware of the situation individually. I don't know if this applies in other states, and the best person to ask is a lawyer who specializes in Sexual Harassment suits. TL;DR: Ask a real lawyer.
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If you're a civil servant that's even better because you have plenty of options up to and including your union. Now, what I would do is I would create an email and BCC yourself a labor attorney and anyone else who's involved in willing to take action and compile everything that happened every bit of sexual harassment recordings scanning everything from write-ups paperwork everybody who made an effort to report John. Now, you're going to send an email to everybody within your supervisors and HR chain of command from the top to the mayor's office. Most government municipalities have an office of human rights which covers sexual harassment include them. You're basically using a nuclear option. Because if this person has gotten away with sexual harassment for this long you might as well. It is important to also get people outside your agency involved like generally there's a master Civil Service office etc because this might be kept internally and you don't want that. Also, since you're a civil servant depending on where you work most states or municipalities have an master or primary office of civil service or personell division that covers agencies use of civil servants I would CC them as well now several things going to happen after you do this. Most municipalities have a mandatory reporting rule regulation law would have you where as these people within the chain of command May come knowledgeable of a sexual harassment claim they all have to report it to the proper authorities and also investigate. You have a document in an email it pushes these people to act. You're going to have to go outside agency command because it seems like somebody's covering for John or group of somebody's. The key to when reporting sexual harassment and no one's doing anything is to involve as many higher-ups as possible because not everybody's part of whatever clique is covering for John so now everybody's going to have a fire under their behind and going to damage control mode. Do. Not. Meet with HR without a representative present and/or some sort of recording device going after the meeting send an email to HR covering the point of the meeting to cover yourself so they can't claim you didn't say anything. This also covers you in case they try to retaliate against you. If any supervisor tries to talk to you about this ask him to put in an email or have it done with a union representative or person of your choosing that could be witness.
| 0 | 6,523 | 6.333333 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2zya4
|
ig2yoc5
| 1,657,769,422 | 1,657,768,778 | 19 | 3 |
If you're a civil servant that's even better because you have plenty of options up to and including your union. Now, what I would do is I would create an email and BCC yourself a labor attorney and anyone else who's involved in willing to take action and compile everything that happened every bit of sexual harassment recordings scanning everything from write-ups paperwork everybody who made an effort to report John. Now, you're going to send an email to everybody within your supervisors and HR chain of command from the top to the mayor's office. Most government municipalities have an office of human rights which covers sexual harassment include them. You're basically using a nuclear option. Because if this person has gotten away with sexual harassment for this long you might as well. It is important to also get people outside your agency involved like generally there's a master Civil Service office etc because this might be kept internally and you don't want that. Also, since you're a civil servant depending on where you work most states or municipalities have an master or primary office of civil service or personell division that covers agencies use of civil servants I would CC them as well now several things going to happen after you do this. Most municipalities have a mandatory reporting rule regulation law would have you where as these people within the chain of command May come knowledgeable of a sexual harassment claim they all have to report it to the proper authorities and also investigate. You have a document in an email it pushes these people to act. You're going to have to go outside agency command because it seems like somebody's covering for John or group of somebody's. The key to when reporting sexual harassment and no one's doing anything is to involve as many higher-ups as possible because not everybody's part of whatever clique is covering for John so now everybody's going to have a fire under their behind and going to damage control mode. Do. Not. Meet with HR without a representative present and/or some sort of recording device going after the meeting send an email to HR covering the point of the meeting to cover yourself so they can't claim you didn't say anything. This also covers you in case they try to retaliate against you. If any supervisor tries to talk to you about this ask him to put in an email or have it done with a union representative or person of your choosing that could be witness.
|
Did anyone get a lawyer? They LOVE cases like this. They get big money , and so do their clients. Toxic atmosphere. Sexual harassment. Whistle blower threatened, it will make a good lawyer happy.
| 1 | 644 | 6.333333 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2y8qc
|
ig1zbg8
| 1,657,768,566 | 1,657,752,755 | 6 | 4 |
HR's job is to protect the companies interests. Sometimes companies interests are aligned with your personal interests sometimes not. If you think interests are not aligned consult an employment law attorney.
|
>I am not the one who said this originally, but 14 might catch you a charge of harassment in my jx. ​ > 8 and #14 are harassment by phone, which is a crime in many jurisdictions. ​ I'd certainly be interested in looking at a specific state statute that reaches the conduct in #8 and #14. Which jurisdictions, specifically, u/johnmomdoe ?
| 1 | 15,811 | 1.5 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2y8qc
|
ig2p6di
| 1,657,768,566 | 1,657,764,223 | 6 | 4 |
HR's job is to protect the companies interests. Sometimes companies interests are aligned with your personal interests sometimes not. If you think interests are not aligned consult an employment law attorney.
|
Contact your department’s internal affairs department. It also might be called professional standards. They investigate wrongdoing by commissioned and civilian employees both.
| 1 | 4,343 | 1.5 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2m9ni
|
ig2y8qc
| 1,657,762,899 | 1,657,768,566 | 3 | 6 |
Not a lawyer. Only knowledgeable about the state of California, but you didn't share a location. As others have said, EEOC is the appropriate place the file a complaint, the limitations on reporting are 300 days, but the older incidents could be used to show a pattern of behavior. In California, supervisors who are aware of the ongoing harassment and do nothing can be personally liable. You can sue every supervisor or HR person who was aware of the situation individually. I don't know if this applies in other states, and the best person to ask is a lawyer who specializes in Sexual Harassment suits. TL;DR: Ask a real lawyer.
|
HR's job is to protect the companies interests. Sometimes companies interests are aligned with your personal interests sometimes not. If you think interests are not aligned consult an employment law attorney.
| 0 | 5,667 | 2 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2m9ni
|
ig36g1u
| 1,657,762,899 | 1,657,772,924 | 3 | 4 |
Not a lawyer. Only knowledgeable about the state of California, but you didn't share a location. As others have said, EEOC is the appropriate place the file a complaint, the limitations on reporting are 300 days, but the older incidents could be used to show a pattern of behavior. In California, supervisors who are aware of the ongoing harassment and do nothing can be personally liable. You can sue every supervisor or HR person who was aware of the situation individually. I don't know if this applies in other states, and the best person to ask is a lawyer who specializes in Sexual Harassment suits. TL;DR: Ask a real lawyer.
|
I wonder - has any of this been brought to the attention of the city council, borough council, township supervisors or whatever you've got going on in that jurisdiction?? Or perhaps the solicitor for same? Of course, I wouldn't do any of that without talking to an attorney first. But that's a big liability for them and terrible PR if its been swept under the rug.
| 0 | 10,025 | 1.333333 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig36g1u
|
ig2yoc5
| 1,657,772,924 | 1,657,768,778 | 4 | 3 |
I wonder - has any of this been brought to the attention of the city council, borough council, township supervisors or whatever you've got going on in that jurisdiction?? Or perhaps the solicitor for same? Of course, I wouldn't do any of that without talking to an attorney first. But that's a big liability for them and terrible PR if its been swept under the rug.
|
Did anyone get a lawyer? They LOVE cases like this. They get big money , and so do their clients. Toxic atmosphere. Sexual harassment. Whistle blower threatened, it will make a good lawyer happy.
| 1 | 4,146 | 1.333333 |
vyay3i
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My coworkers and I feel that our HR department is refusing to keep us safe from a man known for sexual harassment. Can anything be done? I am a civil servant in a department that is approximately 90% women. We have a male department head and two male supervisors, one of whom became a supervisor in 2021. For simplicity sake, I will refer to him as John. John has worked in this field for 8 years and in that time accumulated multiple complaints for sexual harassment. 11 of those complains have made their way to HR. A 12th complaint is currently pending response from HR. These complaints have been made by a variety of people. The complaints I know of (made to HR or our Department head) are listed below, with a TL;DR version below that. 1 - 2016. John requested 2 female employees ask their friends to sleep with him and his wife. They declined to do so, he persisted, a complaint was made to the department head who chose not to involve HR. They were told John would be spoken to and that was the end of it. 2 - 2016. John started talking about a female employees body loudly to a group of people in front of her. He made comments about her butt and what he would like to do with it. She passed this on to our department head. He told her he would have a talk with John and others present to determine if this should be presented to HR. 3 - A month after incident 2, still 2016, John made the same employee uncomfortable again. While surrounded by a group of people he asked her to join him and his wife in bed. She immediately reported this directly to HR. HR advised that John would receive consequences that were to be kept private and told the female employee that discussing the incident further would put her at risk of termination. John used this to his advantage (and continues to do so) by lying to anyone that will listen about the circumstances of this report. He tells people she made everything up (despite witnesses) and she cannot defend herself. 4 - In 2017 John used his work email to post an ad on Craigslist requesting someone join him and his wife in bed. He was reading sexually explicit emails in response at work and discussing the possibilities with another coworker. This coworker reported the incident to a supervisor, who instructed John to take down the ad and use his personal email. 5 - In 2017 John complained about a new break policy that monitored break lengths. He admitted to a female coworker that he enjoyed taking long breaks as he would go into the restroom to watch porn on his phone and masturbate. This was reported to a supervisor, who passed it on to the department head, who said he would handle the situation. I do not know what, if anything, was done at this point. 6 - In 2017 someone from a neighboring business complained to our department head after John was seen groping a woman outside and in public while wearing our logo. I believe this made it to HR as our entire department was required to do sexual harassing training. 7 - 2018. While not necessarily harassment, John attempted to have our department head change policy to prevent women from wearing high heals or make up as, according to John, both are unnecessary and distract women from doing our jobs. During this time, John was known to approach female employees and critique our appearances (he wanted us to pluck our eyebrows differently, wear a different shade of blush, not wear fingernail polish, things like that.) 8 - 2018. John texted sexually explicit pictures to a female employee. She reported the texts to a supervisor, who told her she would handle the situation. I do not know what steps were taken and neither does the employee. We do believe HR was made aware as he complained about a write up around this time and the entire department was made to do sexual harassment training. 9 - 2019. John asked out a female employee who was married to a disabled woman. She declined. John started referring to the employees spouse as various vegetables when speaking with others. This was brought to HR and the entire department was made to do sensitivity training. I don't know of any personal consequences for John. 10 - 2020. During this time John divorced his wife. He began dating a new coworker who was not aware of the type of person he is. After she ended things John attempted to retaliate by telling the department head she was submitting subpar work. She proved this was incorrect, but for a moment her job was at risk. This was not brought to HR. 11 - 2021. John sent several messages to multiple female employees telling them how beautiful they are and how he'd love to be with them. Some chose to take this to a supervisor. Some did not. No one is really sure if it went further as they were told it was handled privately. 12 - 2021. At this point John ia a supervisor. It was found that he had moved in with a subordinate. He was temporarily stripped of his title and HR investigated. They agreed that he could return to his position as supervisor if he ended the relationship with his subordinate. 13 - 2022. John was speaking inappropriately to a female employee about her body. She asked him to stop. He responded by offering a tampon since, according to John, she must be on her period to have such an attitude. This was reported to HR. 14 - 2022. John began sending inappropriate messages to a female employee. She explained that she is not attracted to men and asked that he stop. He continued messaging her and started describing what he would do to her to make her like men, all very sexual. She told him she would go to HR and he told her to go for it as he'd already been investigated 11 times and he was untouchable each time. This has been going on since early March. A month ago she went to another supervisor asking for any help and John got wind of it. He began reporting her work as unacceptable to the department head. She was pulled in and told she had 90 days to improve or she'd be terminated. She proved the complaints made against her were false and they were dropped. She called HR to make a complaint directly and was told she'd be called back. It's been 2 weeks and she's called multiple times. No one has returned her calls. TL;DR: Male coworker has multiple incidents of sexual harassment. I know of 14 separate issues. He has, by his own admission, been investigated by HR 11 times. Nothing is being done. Our mostly female office feels unsafe around him. He feels untouchable. Is there anything that can be done? Can we threaten legal action against our HR department? Or our Department Head? Or him? Does he have to physically assault someone before any real action can be taken?
|
ig2m9ni
|
ig2p6di
| 1,657,762,899 | 1,657,764,223 | 3 | 4 |
Not a lawyer. Only knowledgeable about the state of California, but you didn't share a location. As others have said, EEOC is the appropriate place the file a complaint, the limitations on reporting are 300 days, but the older incidents could be used to show a pattern of behavior. In California, supervisors who are aware of the ongoing harassment and do nothing can be personally liable. You can sue every supervisor or HR person who was aware of the situation individually. I don't know if this applies in other states, and the best person to ask is a lawyer who specializes in Sexual Harassment suits. TL;DR: Ask a real lawyer.
|
Contact your department’s internal affairs department. It also might be called professional standards. They investigate wrongdoing by commissioned and civilian employees both.
| 0 | 1,324 | 1.333333 |
4n1mdi
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Wisconsin--Because of my job I accidentally called a girl that has a restraining order against me several times. Am I in legal trouble? I'm 26M she's 25F if that matters at all. Let's call her Ms. Brown. Location is Wisconsin. I kind of work at a bank. I don't actually work in the bank but I work at a phone center that the bank works with to tell people they're late on payments. Four years ago I was a real shitheel. I was a stalker and the abuser in an abusive relationship with the abused half being Ms. Brown. I don't really want to go into details. The restraining order was totally deserved is my point and it doesn't expire for quite a while. I'm focusing my life on never being that person again. I go to therapy and anger management and I haven't had any relationships because I'm too afraid of falling back on old habits. I don't interact with Ms. Brown at all and in fact I don't even talk about her with friends and ignore any messages from people who have her friended on facebook. I saw her in person once and immediately turned around and walked away. I'm really trying. Anyway the past couple weeks one of the accounts that has been assigned for me to call was a woman named Mrs. Grey. The first time, I started my script and got through "Hello, this is [name]" before she hung up. She never answered after that so I left four voicemails. (not all on the same day, about two a week. idk if that seems like too much but i was just following policy.) The full script is something like "Hello this is [name] with [X Bank] and I'm calling about some concerns with your account, please call us back at 1-800-555-BANK to discuss this further." The last time I called (sixth time i guess) she picked up. From the title you can probably figure out what happened. She screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'VE CALLED THE FUCKING COPS" and slammed it back down. I recognized her voice and it was all I could do not to actually shit myself a little bit. Yes, Ms. Brown got married and became Mrs. Grey. I have two questions. First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? I really, honestly didn't know it was her. I'm freaking out. Second question: I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me. Can he do that? Isn't that like hella illegal? Thanks.
|
d401pgn
|
d401ybi
| 1,465,337,116 | 1,465,337,478 | 73 | 698 |
> First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? Sure. You violated the order. Whether your defense is workable depends a lot on the specific laws of Wisconsin. I don't know if Wisconsin is a strict liability state for that. > he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me That's bad. That's *definitely* a violation and there's no defense for that.
|
It's an odd situation, so don't get surprised if she, cops or a court take it seriously. Make sure you can document your version of events -- you had no way of knowing this was someone you were restrained from, so it should get resolved. But if you get any official paper from court, an attorney representing her, etc. get a lawyer and take it seriously until your side of the story gets to the right people. Intent is still a requirement for a RO violation. You didn't have intent.
| 0 | 362 | 9.561644 |
4n1mdi
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Wisconsin--Because of my job I accidentally called a girl that has a restraining order against me several times. Am I in legal trouble? I'm 26M she's 25F if that matters at all. Let's call her Ms. Brown. Location is Wisconsin. I kind of work at a bank. I don't actually work in the bank but I work at a phone center that the bank works with to tell people they're late on payments. Four years ago I was a real shitheel. I was a stalker and the abuser in an abusive relationship with the abused half being Ms. Brown. I don't really want to go into details. The restraining order was totally deserved is my point and it doesn't expire for quite a while. I'm focusing my life on never being that person again. I go to therapy and anger management and I haven't had any relationships because I'm too afraid of falling back on old habits. I don't interact with Ms. Brown at all and in fact I don't even talk about her with friends and ignore any messages from people who have her friended on facebook. I saw her in person once and immediately turned around and walked away. I'm really trying. Anyway the past couple weeks one of the accounts that has been assigned for me to call was a woman named Mrs. Grey. The first time, I started my script and got through "Hello, this is [name]" before she hung up. She never answered after that so I left four voicemails. (not all on the same day, about two a week. idk if that seems like too much but i was just following policy.) The full script is something like "Hello this is [name] with [X Bank] and I'm calling about some concerns with your account, please call us back at 1-800-555-BANK to discuss this further." The last time I called (sixth time i guess) she picked up. From the title you can probably figure out what happened. She screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'VE CALLED THE FUCKING COPS" and slammed it back down. I recognized her voice and it was all I could do not to actually shit myself a little bit. Yes, Ms. Brown got married and became Mrs. Grey. I have two questions. First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? I really, honestly didn't know it was her. I'm freaking out. Second question: I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me. Can he do that? Isn't that like hella illegal? Thanks.
|
d4028pn
|
d401pgn
| 1,465,337,900 | 1,465,337,116 | 331 | 73 |
"I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me." Did you really tell your manager anything close to the truth here? Anyone with half a brain would reassign the account in two seconds.
|
> First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? Sure. You violated the order. Whether your defense is workable depends a lot on the specific laws of Wisconsin. I don't know if Wisconsin is a strict liability state for that. > he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me That's bad. That's *definitely* a violation and there's no defense for that.
| 1 | 784 | 4.534247 |
4n1mdi
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Wisconsin--Because of my job I accidentally called a girl that has a restraining order against me several times. Am I in legal trouble? I'm 26M she's 25F if that matters at all. Let's call her Ms. Brown. Location is Wisconsin. I kind of work at a bank. I don't actually work in the bank but I work at a phone center that the bank works with to tell people they're late on payments. Four years ago I was a real shitheel. I was a stalker and the abuser in an abusive relationship with the abused half being Ms. Brown. I don't really want to go into details. The restraining order was totally deserved is my point and it doesn't expire for quite a while. I'm focusing my life on never being that person again. I go to therapy and anger management and I haven't had any relationships because I'm too afraid of falling back on old habits. I don't interact with Ms. Brown at all and in fact I don't even talk about her with friends and ignore any messages from people who have her friended on facebook. I saw her in person once and immediately turned around and walked away. I'm really trying. Anyway the past couple weeks one of the accounts that has been assigned for me to call was a woman named Mrs. Grey. The first time, I started my script and got through "Hello, this is [name]" before she hung up. She never answered after that so I left four voicemails. (not all on the same day, about two a week. idk if that seems like too much but i was just following policy.) The full script is something like "Hello this is [name] with [X Bank] and I'm calling about some concerns with your account, please call us back at 1-800-555-BANK to discuss this further." The last time I called (sixth time i guess) she picked up. From the title you can probably figure out what happened. She screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'VE CALLED THE FUCKING COPS" and slammed it back down. I recognized her voice and it was all I could do not to actually shit myself a little bit. Yes, Ms. Brown got married and became Mrs. Grey. I have two questions. First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? I really, honestly didn't know it was her. I'm freaking out. Second question: I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me. Can he do that? Isn't that like hella illegal? Thanks.
|
d4028xv
|
d401pgn
| 1,465,337,910 | 1,465,337,116 | 87 | 73 |
If you work in a call centre there's other people who can take that account. Your manager is a dick.
|
> First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? Sure. You violated the order. Whether your defense is workable depends a lot on the specific laws of Wisconsin. I don't know if Wisconsin is a strict liability state for that. > he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me That's bad. That's *definitely* a violation and there's no defense for that.
| 1 | 794 | 1.191781 |
4n1mdi
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Wisconsin--Because of my job I accidentally called a girl that has a restraining order against me several times. Am I in legal trouble? I'm 26M she's 25F if that matters at all. Let's call her Ms. Brown. Location is Wisconsin. I kind of work at a bank. I don't actually work in the bank but I work at a phone center that the bank works with to tell people they're late on payments. Four years ago I was a real shitheel. I was a stalker and the abuser in an abusive relationship with the abused half being Ms. Brown. I don't really want to go into details. The restraining order was totally deserved is my point and it doesn't expire for quite a while. I'm focusing my life on never being that person again. I go to therapy and anger management and I haven't had any relationships because I'm too afraid of falling back on old habits. I don't interact with Ms. Brown at all and in fact I don't even talk about her with friends and ignore any messages from people who have her friended on facebook. I saw her in person once and immediately turned around and walked away. I'm really trying. Anyway the past couple weeks one of the accounts that has been assigned for me to call was a woman named Mrs. Grey. The first time, I started my script and got through "Hello, this is [name]" before she hung up. She never answered after that so I left four voicemails. (not all on the same day, about two a week. idk if that seems like too much but i was just following policy.) The full script is something like "Hello this is [name] with [X Bank] and I'm calling about some concerns with your account, please call us back at 1-800-555-BANK to discuss this further." The last time I called (sixth time i guess) she picked up. From the title you can probably figure out what happened. She screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'VE CALLED THE FUCKING COPS" and slammed it back down. I recognized her voice and it was all I could do not to actually shit myself a little bit. Yes, Ms. Brown got married and became Mrs. Grey. I have two questions. First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? I really, honestly didn't know it was her. I'm freaking out. Second question: I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me. Can he do that? Isn't that like hella illegal? Thanks.
|
d402hdp
|
d40i81g
| 1,465,338,251 | 1,465,362,578 | 39 | 64 |
1st tell your boss that you learned that person is your ex who dislikes you intensely and there is no way she would do anything to cooperate with me. If that doesn't get her off your list you have to tell boss that you are not legally allowed to contact her.
|
If she has called the cops, there might be a visit from them or a letter from the courts. An accusation is usually taken serious. Does this mean you will be punished for it? It depends on the details. As /u/taterbizkit pointed out, intent to violate must be established. If you're eating in a café and she walks in, she could claim that you're violating the order, but she would have to prove that you knew she'd be there. She could level all kinds of accusations, but there has to be proof that you willingly and purposefully chose to violate the order. The fact that she has a different name may buy you some protection if this should go to court. It'd be easy to prove that since the account was given to you and you didn't know her new name that this was an honest mistake, but if you call her again because your boss is making you call her, then that will be inexcusable. You will be intentionally calling a person that you know it is illegal for you to call. As far as your boss goes, I'm willing to bet you didn't tell him she had a restraining order against you or that it is illegal for you to call her. I'm guessing you tiptoed around those details because who wants to tell their boss that. You're going to have to go back to your boss and explain that it is illegal for you to contact her. If he ask for the details, just inform him that she has a restraining order in place against you and ask that the account be transferred to another employee. Don't be a coward. Just tell you boss. You don't have to explain what the RO is for, just that there is one in place.
| 0 | 24,327 | 1.641026 |
4n1mdi
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Wisconsin--Because of my job I accidentally called a girl that has a restraining order against me several times. Am I in legal trouble? I'm 26M she's 25F if that matters at all. Let's call her Ms. Brown. Location is Wisconsin. I kind of work at a bank. I don't actually work in the bank but I work at a phone center that the bank works with to tell people they're late on payments. Four years ago I was a real shitheel. I was a stalker and the abuser in an abusive relationship with the abused half being Ms. Brown. I don't really want to go into details. The restraining order was totally deserved is my point and it doesn't expire for quite a while. I'm focusing my life on never being that person again. I go to therapy and anger management and I haven't had any relationships because I'm too afraid of falling back on old habits. I don't interact with Ms. Brown at all and in fact I don't even talk about her with friends and ignore any messages from people who have her friended on facebook. I saw her in person once and immediately turned around and walked away. I'm really trying. Anyway the past couple weeks one of the accounts that has been assigned for me to call was a woman named Mrs. Grey. The first time, I started my script and got through "Hello, this is [name]" before she hung up. She never answered after that so I left four voicemails. (not all on the same day, about two a week. idk if that seems like too much but i was just following policy.) The full script is something like "Hello this is [name] with [X Bank] and I'm calling about some concerns with your account, please call us back at 1-800-555-BANK to discuss this further." The last time I called (sixth time i guess) she picked up. From the title you can probably figure out what happened. She screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'VE CALLED THE FUCKING COPS" and slammed it back down. I recognized her voice and it was all I could do not to actually shit myself a little bit. Yes, Ms. Brown got married and became Mrs. Grey. I have two questions. First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? I really, honestly didn't know it was her. I'm freaking out. Second question: I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me. Can he do that? Isn't that like hella illegal? Thanks.
|
d40e4vl
|
d40i81g
| 1,465,355,616 | 1,465,362,578 | 35 | 64 |
Your boss can fire you for not being able to make that call, but if he tells you to call and you call the crime is on you. Im sorry man, its a shitty situation. Dont contact her though, its the difference between losing one shit job or being a felon (worst case scenario on both). Do you have any contact info for people from the original RO? Like a phone number you can call woth questions or the email of someone in the legal system or something?
|
If she has called the cops, there might be a visit from them or a letter from the courts. An accusation is usually taken serious. Does this mean you will be punished for it? It depends on the details. As /u/taterbizkit pointed out, intent to violate must be established. If you're eating in a café and she walks in, she could claim that you're violating the order, but she would have to prove that you knew she'd be there. She could level all kinds of accusations, but there has to be proof that you willingly and purposefully chose to violate the order. The fact that she has a different name may buy you some protection if this should go to court. It'd be easy to prove that since the account was given to you and you didn't know her new name that this was an honest mistake, but if you call her again because your boss is making you call her, then that will be inexcusable. You will be intentionally calling a person that you know it is illegal for you to call. As far as your boss goes, I'm willing to bet you didn't tell him she had a restraining order against you or that it is illegal for you to call her. I'm guessing you tiptoed around those details because who wants to tell their boss that. You're going to have to go back to your boss and explain that it is illegal for you to contact her. If he ask for the details, just inform him that she has a restraining order in place against you and ask that the account be transferred to another employee. Don't be a coward. Just tell you boss. You don't have to explain what the RO is for, just that there is one in place.
| 0 | 6,962 | 1.828571 |
4n1mdi
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Wisconsin--Because of my job I accidentally called a girl that has a restraining order against me several times. Am I in legal trouble? I'm 26M she's 25F if that matters at all. Let's call her Ms. Brown. Location is Wisconsin. I kind of work at a bank. I don't actually work in the bank but I work at a phone center that the bank works with to tell people they're late on payments. Four years ago I was a real shitheel. I was a stalker and the abuser in an abusive relationship with the abused half being Ms. Brown. I don't really want to go into details. The restraining order was totally deserved is my point and it doesn't expire for quite a while. I'm focusing my life on never being that person again. I go to therapy and anger management and I haven't had any relationships because I'm too afraid of falling back on old habits. I don't interact with Ms. Brown at all and in fact I don't even talk about her with friends and ignore any messages from people who have her friended on facebook. I saw her in person once and immediately turned around and walked away. I'm really trying. Anyway the past couple weeks one of the accounts that has been assigned for me to call was a woman named Mrs. Grey. The first time, I started my script and got through "Hello, this is [name]" before she hung up. She never answered after that so I left four voicemails. (not all on the same day, about two a week. idk if that seems like too much but i was just following policy.) The full script is something like "Hello this is [name] with [X Bank] and I'm calling about some concerns with your account, please call us back at 1-800-555-BANK to discuss this further." The last time I called (sixth time i guess) she picked up. From the title you can probably figure out what happened. She screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'VE CALLED THE FUCKING COPS" and slammed it back down. I recognized her voice and it was all I could do not to actually shit myself a little bit. Yes, Ms. Brown got married and became Mrs. Grey. I have two questions. First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? I really, honestly didn't know it was her. I'm freaking out. Second question: I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me. Can he do that? Isn't that like hella illegal? Thanks.
|
d40i81g
|
d40fvc6
| 1,465,362,578 | 1,465,358,347 | 64 | 17 |
If she has called the cops, there might be a visit from them or a letter from the courts. An accusation is usually taken serious. Does this mean you will be punished for it? It depends on the details. As /u/taterbizkit pointed out, intent to violate must be established. If you're eating in a café and she walks in, she could claim that you're violating the order, but she would have to prove that you knew she'd be there. She could level all kinds of accusations, but there has to be proof that you willingly and purposefully chose to violate the order. The fact that she has a different name may buy you some protection if this should go to court. It'd be easy to prove that since the account was given to you and you didn't know her new name that this was an honest mistake, but if you call her again because your boss is making you call her, then that will be inexcusable. You will be intentionally calling a person that you know it is illegal for you to call. As far as your boss goes, I'm willing to bet you didn't tell him she had a restraining order against you or that it is illegal for you to call her. I'm guessing you tiptoed around those details because who wants to tell their boss that. You're going to have to go back to your boss and explain that it is illegal for you to contact her. If he ask for the details, just inform him that she has a restraining order in place against you and ask that the account be transferred to another employee. Don't be a coward. Just tell you boss. You don't have to explain what the RO is for, just that there is one in place.
|
I'd write a note to your boss saying what happened with a copy of the RO attached, keep a copy, and send another to the bank's legal department. They should then get on your boss's case and make him back down. If this goes to court the note will be useful evidence.
| 1 | 4,231 | 3.764706 |
4n1mdi
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Wisconsin--Because of my job I accidentally called a girl that has a restraining order against me several times. Am I in legal trouble? I'm 26M she's 25F if that matters at all. Let's call her Ms. Brown. Location is Wisconsin. I kind of work at a bank. I don't actually work in the bank but I work at a phone center that the bank works with to tell people they're late on payments. Four years ago I was a real shitheel. I was a stalker and the abuser in an abusive relationship with the abused half being Ms. Brown. I don't really want to go into details. The restraining order was totally deserved is my point and it doesn't expire for quite a while. I'm focusing my life on never being that person again. I go to therapy and anger management and I haven't had any relationships because I'm too afraid of falling back on old habits. I don't interact with Ms. Brown at all and in fact I don't even talk about her with friends and ignore any messages from people who have her friended on facebook. I saw her in person once and immediately turned around and walked away. I'm really trying. Anyway the past couple weeks one of the accounts that has been assigned for me to call was a woman named Mrs. Grey. The first time, I started my script and got through "Hello, this is [name]" before she hung up. She never answered after that so I left four voicemails. (not all on the same day, about two a week. idk if that seems like too much but i was just following policy.) The full script is something like "Hello this is [name] with [X Bank] and I'm calling about some concerns with your account, please call us back at 1-800-555-BANK to discuss this further." The last time I called (sixth time i guess) she picked up. From the title you can probably figure out what happened. She screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'VE CALLED THE FUCKING COPS" and slammed it back down. I recognized her voice and it was all I could do not to actually shit myself a little bit. Yes, Ms. Brown got married and became Mrs. Grey. I have two questions. First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? I really, honestly didn't know it was her. I'm freaking out. Second question: I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me. Can he do that? Isn't that like hella illegal? Thanks.
|
d40e4vl
|
d40lwtj
| 1,465,355,616 | 1,465,371,375 | 35 | 37 |
Your boss can fire you for not being able to make that call, but if he tells you to call and you call the crime is on you. Im sorry man, its a shitty situation. Dont contact her though, its the difference between losing one shit job or being a felon (worst case scenario on both). Do you have any contact info for people from the original RO? Like a phone number you can call woth questions or the email of someone in the legal system or something?
|
Not a lawyer, but this is what I would do: * Get documentation from the bank that proves that it was not your choice to call that number, that it was just one number in a list of numbers you got assigned to you. This gives credibility to it being an honest mistake. * Talk to the bank's legal department. They might be able to help, or at the very least, make sure you don't have to call her again. * Talk to whoever this is likely to land on, should she contact the bank and complain, and explain the situation, so that that person can explain that it was an honest mistake and you and the bank are both extremely sorry and apologize for what happened. Not a surefire solution, but it would at least cover the basics.
| 0 | 15,759 | 1.057143 |
4n1mdi
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Wisconsin--Because of my job I accidentally called a girl that has a restraining order against me several times. Am I in legal trouble? I'm 26M she's 25F if that matters at all. Let's call her Ms. Brown. Location is Wisconsin. I kind of work at a bank. I don't actually work in the bank but I work at a phone center that the bank works with to tell people they're late on payments. Four years ago I was a real shitheel. I was a stalker and the abuser in an abusive relationship with the abused half being Ms. Brown. I don't really want to go into details. The restraining order was totally deserved is my point and it doesn't expire for quite a while. I'm focusing my life on never being that person again. I go to therapy and anger management and I haven't had any relationships because I'm too afraid of falling back on old habits. I don't interact with Ms. Brown at all and in fact I don't even talk about her with friends and ignore any messages from people who have her friended on facebook. I saw her in person once and immediately turned around and walked away. I'm really trying. Anyway the past couple weeks one of the accounts that has been assigned for me to call was a woman named Mrs. Grey. The first time, I started my script and got through "Hello, this is [name]" before she hung up. She never answered after that so I left four voicemails. (not all on the same day, about two a week. idk if that seems like too much but i was just following policy.) The full script is something like "Hello this is [name] with [X Bank] and I'm calling about some concerns with your account, please call us back at 1-800-555-BANK to discuss this further." The last time I called (sixth time i guess) she picked up. From the title you can probably figure out what happened. She screamed "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'VE CALLED THE FUCKING COPS" and slammed it back down. I recognized her voice and it was all I could do not to actually shit myself a little bit. Yes, Ms. Brown got married and became Mrs. Grey. I have two questions. First question: can I actually get in legal trouble for this? I really, honestly didn't know it was her. I'm freaking out. Second question: I told my manager right away and he wants me to keep the account and keep calling her even though I know now that it's somebody who has a restraining order against me. Can he do that? Isn't that like hella illegal? Thanks.
|
d40fvc6
|
d40lwtj
| 1,465,358,347 | 1,465,371,375 | 17 | 37 |
I'd write a note to your boss saying what happened with a copy of the RO attached, keep a copy, and send another to the bank's legal department. They should then get on your boss's case and make him back down. If this goes to court the note will be useful evidence.
|
Not a lawyer, but this is what I would do: * Get documentation from the bank that proves that it was not your choice to call that number, that it was just one number in a list of numbers you got assigned to you. This gives credibility to it being an honest mistake. * Talk to the bank's legal department. They might be able to help, or at the very least, make sure you don't have to call her again. * Talk to whoever this is likely to land on, should she contact the bank and complain, and explain the situation, so that that person can explain that it was an honest mistake and you and the bank are both extremely sorry and apologize for what happened. Not a surefire solution, but it would at least cover the basics.
| 0 | 13,028 | 2.176471 |
tpnirl
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.94 |
[FL] Attacker got a restraining order against me Apparently while I was recovering from my injuries, my attacker got a temporary restraining order against me. I want to fight it because they live "within 500 ft" of me, so I guess that means now I'm homeless? And my friend says they come up on background checks so how do I even find a new place to live I also want to press charges against my attacker or sue them for medical bills or whatever the right legal thing here is. Where do I start? What kind of lawyer do I need?
|
i2c1rlj
|
i2dvnrg
| 1,648,401,248 | 1,648,431,348 | 101 | 121 |
Did you file a police report when the attack happened?
|
They probably did this as an attempt to defend against charges you are pursuing. It won’t work. Just make sure to get in touch with the prosecutor and let their office know. Also attend any court dates pertaining to the TRO.
| 0 | 30,100 | 1.19802 |
tpnirl
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.94 |
[FL] Attacker got a restraining order against me Apparently while I was recovering from my injuries, my attacker got a temporary restraining order against me. I want to fight it because they live "within 500 ft" of me, so I guess that means now I'm homeless? And my friend says they come up on background checks so how do I even find a new place to live I also want to press charges against my attacker or sue them for medical bills or whatever the right legal thing here is. Where do I start? What kind of lawyer do I need?
|
i2dvnrg
|
i2c40tt
| 1,648,431,348 | 1,648,402,193 | 121 | 76 |
They probably did this as an attempt to defend against charges you are pursuing. It won’t work. Just make sure to get in touch with the prosecutor and let their office know. Also attend any court dates pertaining to the TRO.
|
In order to press charges, you will need to go to the police. If they are found guilty, the prosecution can ask they pay you restitution to pay hospital bills and property damage.
| 1 | 29,155 | 1.592105 |
tpnirl
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.94 |
[FL] Attacker got a restraining order against me Apparently while I was recovering from my injuries, my attacker got a temporary restraining order against me. I want to fight it because they live "within 500 ft" of me, so I guess that means now I'm homeless? And my friend says they come up on background checks so how do I even find a new place to live I also want to press charges against my attacker or sue them for medical bills or whatever the right legal thing here is. Where do I start? What kind of lawyer do I need?
|
i2dvnrg
|
i2d0xno
| 1,648,431,348 | 1,648,416,459 | 121 | 50 |
They probably did this as an attempt to defend against charges you are pursuing. It won’t work. Just make sure to get in touch with the prosecutor and let their office know. Also attend any court dates pertaining to the TRO.
|
A temporary restraining order is usually only good for so many days. There should be a court date listed on your paperwork. Go to court, explain the circumstances to the judge, have your copy of the police report showing you to be the victim. Their order against you should be vacated. If you plan on suing them for medical bills, include any monies you might have to spend if their restraining order forces you to not be able to be in your house.
| 1 | 14,889 | 2.42 |
tpnirl
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.94 |
[FL] Attacker got a restraining order against me Apparently while I was recovering from my injuries, my attacker got a temporary restraining order against me. I want to fight it because they live "within 500 ft" of me, so I guess that means now I'm homeless? And my friend says they come up on background checks so how do I even find a new place to live I also want to press charges against my attacker or sue them for medical bills or whatever the right legal thing here is. Where do I start? What kind of lawyer do I need?
|
i2dvnrg
|
i2c78dl
| 1,648,431,348 | 1,648,403,499 | 121 | 23 |
They probably did this as an attempt to defend against charges you are pursuing. It won’t work. Just make sure to get in touch with the prosecutor and let their office know. Also attend any court dates pertaining to the TRO.
|
You need a defense attorney. What kind of restraining order is this? Domestic violence? Something else?
| 1 | 27,849 | 5.26087 |
tpnirl
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.94 |
[FL] Attacker got a restraining order against me Apparently while I was recovering from my injuries, my attacker got a temporary restraining order against me. I want to fight it because they live "within 500 ft" of me, so I guess that means now I'm homeless? And my friend says they come up on background checks so how do I even find a new place to live I also want to press charges against my attacker or sue them for medical bills or whatever the right legal thing here is. Where do I start? What kind of lawyer do I need?
|
i2d0xno
|
i2c78dl
| 1,648,416,459 | 1,648,403,499 | 50 | 23 |
A temporary restraining order is usually only good for so many days. There should be a court date listed on your paperwork. Go to court, explain the circumstances to the judge, have your copy of the police report showing you to be the victim. Their order against you should be vacated. If you plan on suing them for medical bills, include any monies you might have to spend if their restraining order forces you to not be able to be in your house.
|
You need a defense attorney. What kind of restraining order is this? Domestic violence? Something else?
| 1 | 12,960 | 2.173913 |
3sotru
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My ex got a restraining order against me 5 months ago. I've never tried to contact her. However, someone has created fake Facebook profile with my name and trying to harass her. What to do? [Jackson, MS] So, due to personal reasons, my ex got a restraining order against me around 5 months ago. I realized I had fuck up and since then I've kept a long distance from her. Never tried to contact her. However, yesterday, she called me and said I should stop contacting her on Facebook or else she'll gonna go to cops and report me. I told her I wasn't contacting her. She sent me screenshots of conversation of her and another FB account with my name and photo. I searched the FB profile and was shocked to see that someone has created a FB profile with my name and my photo. I swear that's not me. I'm completely fine with my new girlfriend. What should I do ? I've already messaged FB and waiting for their reply. This shit gonna put me in lot of trouble. I don't wanna get arrested or something, for violation of that order. What to do?
|
cwzaqwi
|
cwz7aq1
| 1,447,448,515 | 1,447,443,083 | 176 | 138 |
I am not a lawyer, but I would take the fake profile to the police and report it. Make them aware of the fact that it is not yours before they ask.
|
report it to Facebook for one, like right now, might have to send a scan of some id to do it though, and document everything EDIT: /u/ryeshoes reply to this post gives a much better rundown
| 1 | 5,432 | 1.275362 |
3sotru
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My ex got a restraining order against me 5 months ago. I've never tried to contact her. However, someone has created fake Facebook profile with my name and trying to harass her. What to do? [Jackson, MS] So, due to personal reasons, my ex got a restraining order against me around 5 months ago. I realized I had fuck up and since then I've kept a long distance from her. Never tried to contact her. However, yesterday, she called me and said I should stop contacting her on Facebook or else she'll gonna go to cops and report me. I told her I wasn't contacting her. She sent me screenshots of conversation of her and another FB account with my name and photo. I searched the FB profile and was shocked to see that someone has created a FB profile with my name and my photo. I swear that's not me. I'm completely fine with my new girlfriend. What should I do ? I've already messaged FB and waiting for their reply. This shit gonna put me in lot of trouble. I don't wanna get arrested or something, for violation of that order. What to do?
|
cwz5uad
|
cwzaqwi
| 1,447,440,857 | 1,447,448,515 | 70 | 176 |
Just continue to not contact her. If she reports it, the police can subpoena the IP logs and see it isn't you.
|
I am not a lawyer, but I would take the fake profile to the police and report it. Make them aware of the fact that it is not yours before they ask.
| 0 | 7,658 | 2.514286 |
3sotru
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My ex got a restraining order against me 5 months ago. I've never tried to contact her. However, someone has created fake Facebook profile with my name and trying to harass her. What to do? [Jackson, MS] So, due to personal reasons, my ex got a restraining order against me around 5 months ago. I realized I had fuck up and since then I've kept a long distance from her. Never tried to contact her. However, yesterday, she called me and said I should stop contacting her on Facebook or else she'll gonna go to cops and report me. I told her I wasn't contacting her. She sent me screenshots of conversation of her and another FB account with my name and photo. I searched the FB profile and was shocked to see that someone has created a FB profile with my name and my photo. I swear that's not me. I'm completely fine with my new girlfriend. What should I do ? I've already messaged FB and waiting for their reply. This shit gonna put me in lot of trouble. I don't wanna get arrested or something, for violation of that order. What to do?
|
cwzaqwi
|
cwz8b0z
| 1,447,448,515 | 1,447,444,675 | 176 | 39 |
I am not a lawyer, but I would take the fake profile to the police and report it. Make them aware of the fact that it is not yours before they ask.
|
Send messages to facebook on a hourly basis with a brief but pointed explanation. Screen shot all correspondence.
| 1 | 3,840 | 4.512821 |
3sotru
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My ex got a restraining order against me 5 months ago. I've never tried to contact her. However, someone has created fake Facebook profile with my name and trying to harass her. What to do? [Jackson, MS] So, due to personal reasons, my ex got a restraining order against me around 5 months ago. I realized I had fuck up and since then I've kept a long distance from her. Never tried to contact her. However, yesterday, she called me and said I should stop contacting her on Facebook or else she'll gonna go to cops and report me. I told her I wasn't contacting her. She sent me screenshots of conversation of her and another FB account with my name and photo. I searched the FB profile and was shocked to see that someone has created a FB profile with my name and my photo. I swear that's not me. I'm completely fine with my new girlfriend. What should I do ? I've already messaged FB and waiting for their reply. This shit gonna put me in lot of trouble. I don't wanna get arrested or something, for violation of that order. What to do?
|
cwz7aq1
|
cwz5uad
| 1,447,443,083 | 1,447,440,857 | 138 | 70 |
report it to Facebook for one, like right now, might have to send a scan of some id to do it though, and document everything EDIT: /u/ryeshoes reply to this post gives a much better rundown
|
Just continue to not contact her. If she reports it, the police can subpoena the IP logs and see it isn't you.
| 1 | 2,226 | 1.971429 |
3sotru
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My ex got a restraining order against me 5 months ago. I've never tried to contact her. However, someone has created fake Facebook profile with my name and trying to harass her. What to do? [Jackson, MS] So, due to personal reasons, my ex got a restraining order against me around 5 months ago. I realized I had fuck up and since then I've kept a long distance from her. Never tried to contact her. However, yesterday, she called me and said I should stop contacting her on Facebook or else she'll gonna go to cops and report me. I told her I wasn't contacting her. She sent me screenshots of conversation of her and another FB account with my name and photo. I searched the FB profile and was shocked to see that someone has created a FB profile with my name and my photo. I swear that's not me. I'm completely fine with my new girlfriend. What should I do ? I've already messaged FB and waiting for their reply. This shit gonna put me in lot of trouble. I don't wanna get arrested or something, for violation of that order. What to do?
|
cwz5uad
|
cwzavh1
| 1,447,440,857 | 1,447,448,716 | 70 | 101 |
Just continue to not contact her. If she reports it, the police can subpoena the IP logs and see it isn't you.
|
Check the laws in your state, because in NJ, creating a fake Facebook page, was considered identity theft. See if you can pursue that route.
| 0 | 7,859 | 1.442857 |
3sotru
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My ex got a restraining order against me 5 months ago. I've never tried to contact her. However, someone has created fake Facebook profile with my name and trying to harass her. What to do? [Jackson, MS] So, due to personal reasons, my ex got a restraining order against me around 5 months ago. I realized I had fuck up and since then I've kept a long distance from her. Never tried to contact her. However, yesterday, she called me and said I should stop contacting her on Facebook or else she'll gonna go to cops and report me. I told her I wasn't contacting her. She sent me screenshots of conversation of her and another FB account with my name and photo. I searched the FB profile and was shocked to see that someone has created a FB profile with my name and my photo. I swear that's not me. I'm completely fine with my new girlfriend. What should I do ? I've already messaged FB and waiting for their reply. This shit gonna put me in lot of trouble. I don't wanna get arrested or something, for violation of that order. What to do?
|
cwzavh1
|
cwz8b0z
| 1,447,448,716 | 1,447,444,675 | 101 | 39 |
Check the laws in your state, because in NJ, creating a fake Facebook page, was considered identity theft. See if you can pursue that route.
|
Send messages to facebook on a hourly basis with a brief but pointed explanation. Screen shot all correspondence.
| 1 | 4,041 | 2.589744 |
3sotru
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My ex got a restraining order against me 5 months ago. I've never tried to contact her. However, someone has created fake Facebook profile with my name and trying to harass her. What to do? [Jackson, MS] So, due to personal reasons, my ex got a restraining order against me around 5 months ago. I realized I had fuck up and since then I've kept a long distance from her. Never tried to contact her. However, yesterday, she called me and said I should stop contacting her on Facebook or else she'll gonna go to cops and report me. I told her I wasn't contacting her. She sent me screenshots of conversation of her and another FB account with my name and photo. I searched the FB profile and was shocked to see that someone has created a FB profile with my name and my photo. I swear that's not me. I'm completely fine with my new girlfriend. What should I do ? I've already messaged FB and waiting for their reply. This shit gonna put me in lot of trouble. I don't wanna get arrested or something, for violation of that order. What to do?
|
cwzgu2r
|
cwze1ln
| 1,447,459,053 | 1,447,453,752 | 24 | 7 |
I am not a lawyer, but I have been through a restraining order. Do not respond to any message. You may have fucked up already by responding to the one she sent you telling you not to contact her. It doesn't matter who initiates contact. It is up to you not to contact her. I got myself in similar trouble. She got mad and contacted me then tried to start an argument, I responded. She told the courts. I was convicted of epo/dvo violation. She can contact you all she wants, you are not allowed to respond.
|
In addition to the other advice in this thread, I would consider discussing with an attorney the wisdom of contacting the police to report that this fake facebook profile exists.
| 1 | 5,301 | 3.428571 |
3sotru
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
My ex got a restraining order against me 5 months ago. I've never tried to contact her. However, someone has created fake Facebook profile with my name and trying to harass her. What to do? [Jackson, MS] So, due to personal reasons, my ex got a restraining order against me around 5 months ago. I realized I had fuck up and since then I've kept a long distance from her. Never tried to contact her. However, yesterday, she called me and said I should stop contacting her on Facebook or else she'll gonna go to cops and report me. I told her I wasn't contacting her. She sent me screenshots of conversation of her and another FB account with my name and photo. I searched the FB profile and was shocked to see that someone has created a FB profile with my name and my photo. I swear that's not me. I'm completely fine with my new girlfriend. What should I do ? I've already messaged FB and waiting for their reply. This shit gonna put me in lot of trouble. I don't wanna get arrested or something, for violation of that order. What to do?
|
cwzjn1k
|
cwzii8u
| 1,447,467,000 | 1,447,464,553 | 5 | 3 |
I would file the police report myself, to make it clear that I wasn't on Facebook and doing this to her. Let them contact her to collect whatever information she has, if they care to follow up at all. Inform them that she was the one who notified you, and it was _her_ who initiated that contact. Try to get some sort of record of the incident so if it ever gets brought up in court, you'll have something to show for it.
|
Report it to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/help/181495968648557
| 1 | 2,447 | 1.666667 |
yiwtth
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.93 |
I have a restraining order against someone. They have been posting my full name, along with people close to me, along with my phone number and defamation posts. Is this a violation of my restraining order? We are both in Florida, USA. He is aware that his profile is public and that I can see the posts as I used his posts against him in court. The restraining order does include no direct or indirect contact and I'm not sure that this would count as indirect contact or if it is at all a violation. I have tried reporting the profile and posts but they remain up. Thank you
|
iul9lap
|
iul9cye
| 1,667,278,056 | 1,667,277,896 | 61 | 26 |
If the restraining order was requested by you and not part of a criminal case then go to the police. They will be the ones who enforce it. The protection orders usually have language about contact and harrasment including using other parties. They are trying to get others to harass you on their behalf. You can also ask the clerk at the court house about going before the judge or writing a letter to them.
|
If not a part of the restraining order, then it’s own separate criminal charge. This should be considered harassment at the least.
| 1 | 160 | 2.346154 |
yiwtth
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.93 |
I have a restraining order against someone. They have been posting my full name, along with people close to me, along with my phone number and defamation posts. Is this a violation of my restraining order? We are both in Florida, USA. He is aware that his profile is public and that I can see the posts as I used his posts against him in court. The restraining order does include no direct or indirect contact and I'm not sure that this would count as indirect contact or if it is at all a violation. I have tried reporting the profile and posts but they remain up. Thank you
|
iun9bew
|
iun7tqb
| 1,667,321,622 | 1,667,321,053 | 7 | 6 |
I would call the police department and if they don't want to do anything about it get ahold of the judge and always take screenshots of EVERYTHING that you see him violating in the order
|
Is this a family member or someone that you had a romantic relationship with? If so; call your local domestic violence agency. They will assist you.
| 1 | 569 | 1.166667 |
sgjo56
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.88 |
(Ex)Roommate wants a restraining order against me because I got COVID? My ex-roommate wants to file a restraining order against me because I got COVID. For reference, I tested right before I came back to school (which was negative). My symptoms started in the later half of the first week of school. I told them as soon as I started feeling sickly and as soon as I tested positive. I came back from quarantine (I did half at school and half at my friend's apartment off campus) and the room was totally empty. I just found out she moved to the room right next door to mine. Apparently she doesn't feel comfortable being so close to me (?) and wants to file a restraining order against me. Is there any basis for a restraining order? She is trying to say that I "threatened her livelyhood." I was in quarantine for 10 days and my university as well as the CDC said that it can show in my system for up to three months after I got sick. She is trying to say that I did that because she is high-risk (I am high risk as well). She was also on a trip to Mexico and is blaming me for bringing COVID around her? Please help, kind of freaking out as I want to work in education. Also forgot to mention we live in dorms on campus. ​
|
huwn574
|
huwngfg
| 1,643,578,728 | 1,643,578,850 | 14 | 82 |
> Is there any basis for a restraining order? No.
|
> Is there any basis for a restraining order? LOL no.
| 0 | 122 | 5.857143 |
sgjo56
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.88 |
(Ex)Roommate wants a restraining order against me because I got COVID? My ex-roommate wants to file a restraining order against me because I got COVID. For reference, I tested right before I came back to school (which was negative). My symptoms started in the later half of the first week of school. I told them as soon as I started feeling sickly and as soon as I tested positive. I came back from quarantine (I did half at school and half at my friend's apartment off campus) and the room was totally empty. I just found out she moved to the room right next door to mine. Apparently she doesn't feel comfortable being so close to me (?) and wants to file a restraining order against me. Is there any basis for a restraining order? She is trying to say that I "threatened her livelyhood." I was in quarantine for 10 days and my university as well as the CDC said that it can show in my system for up to three months after I got sick. She is trying to say that I did that because she is high-risk (I am high risk as well). She was also on a trip to Mexico and is blaming me for bringing COVID around her? Please help, kind of freaking out as I want to work in education. Also forgot to mention we live in dorms on campus. ​
|
hux32xu
|
huwn574
| 1,643,584,691 | 1,643,578,728 | 36 | 14 |
Let her spend the time, energy, and money trying to file one.
|
> Is there any basis for a restraining order? No.
| 1 | 5,963 | 2.571429 |
sgjo56
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.88 |
(Ex)Roommate wants a restraining order against me because I got COVID? My ex-roommate wants to file a restraining order against me because I got COVID. For reference, I tested right before I came back to school (which was negative). My symptoms started in the later half of the first week of school. I told them as soon as I started feeling sickly and as soon as I tested positive. I came back from quarantine (I did half at school and half at my friend's apartment off campus) and the room was totally empty. I just found out she moved to the room right next door to mine. Apparently she doesn't feel comfortable being so close to me (?) and wants to file a restraining order against me. Is there any basis for a restraining order? She is trying to say that I "threatened her livelyhood." I was in quarantine for 10 days and my university as well as the CDC said that it can show in my system for up to three months after I got sick. She is trying to say that I did that because she is high-risk (I am high risk as well). She was also on a trip to Mexico and is blaming me for bringing COVID around her? Please help, kind of freaking out as I want to work in education. Also forgot to mention we live in dorms on campus. ​
|
huwn574
|
hux7e8g
| 1,643,578,728 | 1,643,586,295 | 14 | 25 |
> Is there any basis for a restraining order? No.
|
She's an idiot
| 0 | 7,567 | 1.785714 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpns6d
|
glporu9
| 1,612,258,007 | 1,612,258,905 | 204 | 298 |
One item to add here about Discord. Since Discord introduced Nitro, you can essentially change your identity in Discord completely, different name and ID number. What you cannot change is your developer ID number. To be able to see this number and to be able to identify other user's Developers ID Numbers, you need to enable Developer Mode on Discord. You can find it under your Discord User Settings > Appearance > Enable Developer Mode. After enabling Developer mode, to find a User's Developer ID, simply right click their name and "Copy ID" will be at the bottom. This is handy because while usernames and their Identifier number appended to their name may change due to Nitro or regular name changes, a Discord User's Developer ID NEVER changes and can be used to show that it's the same account even with different names. A lot of Discord bots will also scrape this information and log it like Carl-bot. I sincerely hope you find a new and consult with a new lawyer.
|
Be careful about the advice given here. How situations like yours turn out are very fact specific. If your lawyer doesn't understand the tech aspect well enough to give advice, the lawyer needs to consult with someone who knows the tech aspect better. A second opinion is definitely a good idea if possible. Definitely gather any and all evidence of her chasing/contacting you. Set things up so you have evidence of any future attempts to contact you/put you in violation of the order. Be prepared to bring this evidence to court. Do not respond to her or talk to her at any point. Just continue to leave or remove her if she's invading a space owned/controlled by you. (I'd advise friends to do the same.)
| 0 | 898 | 1.460784 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glozum5
|
glporu9
| 1,612,240,085 | 1,612,258,905 | 105 | 298 |
This is an area of law that's probably not litigated very much, which may be part of why your lawyer doesn't really understand what you're talking about and why it's difficult for him to give you an answer. I was going to write out a whole long thing, but frankly it comes down to this. If you have a lot of evidence proving she's stalking you, your lawyer could take that to court and ask that the RO be modified or revisited based on what she's doing. Without that, however, you're exposing yourself to situations that she can potentially argue are proof that you violated the RO. At which point a third party who may know as little about final fantasy, discord, etc as your attorney will have to look at the evidence and decide who they believe more. It's much easier to believe an allegation of a RO violation than a stalking allegation, since the former requires a lot less evidence to prove than the latter and since it doesn't sound like you're anywhere close to getting the kind of evidence you'd need to make that claim in court. So chances are you don't win that fight if you keep engaging with her in an attempt to get evidence of her stalking from her. In some jurisdictions having other people talk to her in your behalf can also violate an RO, so having your guild friends try to coerce a confession out of her could also backfire royally if that is prohibited by your RO. Ultimately you probably don't have to stop playing the game entirely, but staying off discord and out of in-game guild chat is frankly the safest thing you can do for yourself and pretty much the best way to avoid being accused of violating the RO.
|
Be careful about the advice given here. How situations like yours turn out are very fact specific. If your lawyer doesn't understand the tech aspect well enough to give advice, the lawyer needs to consult with someone who knows the tech aspect better. A second opinion is definitely a good idea if possible. Definitely gather any and all evidence of her chasing/contacting you. Set things up so you have evidence of any future attempts to contact you/put you in violation of the order. Be prepared to bring this evidence to court. Do not respond to her or talk to her at any point. Just continue to leave or remove her if she's invading a space owned/controlled by you. (I'd advise friends to do the same.)
| 0 | 18,820 | 2.838095 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glporu9
|
glphovt
| 1,612,258,905 | 1,612,252,531 | 298 | 15 |
Be careful about the advice given here. How situations like yours turn out are very fact specific. If your lawyer doesn't understand the tech aspect well enough to give advice, the lawyer needs to consult with someone who knows the tech aspect better. A second opinion is definitely a good idea if possible. Definitely gather any and all evidence of her chasing/contacting you. Set things up so you have evidence of any future attempts to contact you/put you in violation of the order. Be prepared to bring this evidence to court. Do not respond to her or talk to her at any point. Just continue to leave or remove her if she's invading a space owned/controlled by you. (I'd advise friends to do the same.)
|
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
| 1 | 6,374 | 19.866667 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glporu9
|
glpe4sa
| 1,612,258,905 | 1,612,249,651 | 298 | 8 |
Be careful about the advice given here. How situations like yours turn out are very fact specific. If your lawyer doesn't understand the tech aspect well enough to give advice, the lawyer needs to consult with someone who knows the tech aspect better. A second opinion is definitely a good idea if possible. Definitely gather any and all evidence of her chasing/contacting you. Set things up so you have evidence of any future attempts to contact you/put you in violation of the order. Be prepared to bring this evidence to court. Do not respond to her or talk to her at any point. Just continue to leave or remove her if she's invading a space owned/controlled by you. (I'd advise friends to do the same.)
|
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
| 1 | 9,254 | 37.25 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glozum5
|
glpns6d
| 1,612,240,085 | 1,612,258,007 | 105 | 204 |
This is an area of law that's probably not litigated very much, which may be part of why your lawyer doesn't really understand what you're talking about and why it's difficult for him to give you an answer. I was going to write out a whole long thing, but frankly it comes down to this. If you have a lot of evidence proving she's stalking you, your lawyer could take that to court and ask that the RO be modified or revisited based on what she's doing. Without that, however, you're exposing yourself to situations that she can potentially argue are proof that you violated the RO. At which point a third party who may know as little about final fantasy, discord, etc as your attorney will have to look at the evidence and decide who they believe more. It's much easier to believe an allegation of a RO violation than a stalking allegation, since the former requires a lot less evidence to prove than the latter and since it doesn't sound like you're anywhere close to getting the kind of evidence you'd need to make that claim in court. So chances are you don't win that fight if you keep engaging with her in an attempt to get evidence of her stalking from her. In some jurisdictions having other people talk to her in your behalf can also violate an RO, so having your guild friends try to coerce a confession out of her could also backfire royally if that is prohibited by your RO. Ultimately you probably don't have to stop playing the game entirely, but staying off discord and out of in-game guild chat is frankly the safest thing you can do for yourself and pretty much the best way to avoid being accused of violating the RO.
|
One item to add here about Discord. Since Discord introduced Nitro, you can essentially change your identity in Discord completely, different name and ID number. What you cannot change is your developer ID number. To be able to see this number and to be able to identify other user's Developers ID Numbers, you need to enable Developer Mode on Discord. You can find it under your Discord User Settings > Appearance > Enable Developer Mode. After enabling Developer mode, to find a User's Developer ID, simply right click their name and "Copy ID" will be at the bottom. This is handy because while usernames and their Identifier number appended to their name may change due to Nitro or regular name changes, a Discord User's Developer ID NEVER changes and can be used to show that it's the same account even with different names. A lot of Discord bots will also scrape this information and log it like Carl-bot. I sincerely hope you find a new and consult with a new lawyer.
| 0 | 17,922 | 1.942857 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glphovt
|
glpns6d
| 1,612,252,531 | 1,612,258,007 | 15 | 204 |
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
|
One item to add here about Discord. Since Discord introduced Nitro, you can essentially change your identity in Discord completely, different name and ID number. What you cannot change is your developer ID number. To be able to see this number and to be able to identify other user's Developers ID Numbers, you need to enable Developer Mode on Discord. You can find it under your Discord User Settings > Appearance > Enable Developer Mode. After enabling Developer mode, to find a User's Developer ID, simply right click their name and "Copy ID" will be at the bottom. This is handy because while usernames and their Identifier number appended to their name may change due to Nitro or regular name changes, a Discord User's Developer ID NEVER changes and can be used to show that it's the same account even with different names. A lot of Discord bots will also scrape this information and log it like Carl-bot. I sincerely hope you find a new and consult with a new lawyer.
| 0 | 5,476 | 13.6 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpns6d
|
glpe4sa
| 1,612,258,007 | 1,612,249,651 | 204 | 8 |
One item to add here about Discord. Since Discord introduced Nitro, you can essentially change your identity in Discord completely, different name and ID number. What you cannot change is your developer ID number. To be able to see this number and to be able to identify other user's Developers ID Numbers, you need to enable Developer Mode on Discord. You can find it under your Discord User Settings > Appearance > Enable Developer Mode. After enabling Developer mode, to find a User's Developer ID, simply right click their name and "Copy ID" will be at the bottom. This is handy because while usernames and their Identifier number appended to their name may change due to Nitro or regular name changes, a Discord User's Developer ID NEVER changes and can be used to show that it's the same account even with different names. A lot of Discord bots will also scrape this information and log it like Carl-bot. I sincerely hope you find a new and consult with a new lawyer.
|
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
| 1 | 8,356 | 25.5 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpwllg
|
glphovt
| 1,612,265,691 | 1,612,252,531 | 68 | 15 |
The more I think about this, the more I agree with the lawyer. Yes, he doesn't get the technology, which makes his advice questionable ... but then, he plays it safe. There is no guarantee that the judge will understand the technology either and OP is exposing himself to risk in order to play a game. In the grand scheme of things, this does not sound reasonable. The ex-wife seems to be entrapping him into a violation in order to get the RO extended and in this context, the lawyer's advice seems the simplest and safest way to approach it. OP could end up technically right, but saddled with an extension by a judge on a technicality ... is it really worth it? Probably not, that's why he engaged a lawyer in the first place.
|
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
| 1 | 13,160 | 4.533333 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpwllg
|
glpe4sa
| 1,612,265,691 | 1,612,249,651 | 68 | 8 |
The more I think about this, the more I agree with the lawyer. Yes, he doesn't get the technology, which makes his advice questionable ... but then, he plays it safe. There is no guarantee that the judge will understand the technology either and OP is exposing himself to risk in order to play a game. In the grand scheme of things, this does not sound reasonable. The ex-wife seems to be entrapping him into a violation in order to get the RO extended and in this context, the lawyer's advice seems the simplest and safest way to approach it. OP could end up technically right, but saddled with an extension by a judge on a technicality ... is it really worth it? Probably not, that's why he engaged a lawyer in the first place.
|
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
| 1 | 16,040 | 8.5 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqbhkq
|
glq6h0v
| 1,612,274,911 | 1,612,272,347 | 60 | 29 |
Discord is social media that is widely used in the gaming community. Your ex specifically joined a group within this to taunt you and try and get you to violate the RO. Try the above language with your lawyer. Maybe that will help them understand.
|
Obligatory Not a lawyer. Dude. Your lawyer is trying to keep you out of *jail.* You understand that, right? This isn’t about what’s right or fair. It’s about you not going to jail. So yes, it is as simple as stop playing the game. I understand friendships, community, people counting on you but you need to think about the real-world consequences if your ex convinces a judge that you’ve violated the RO. If you insist on continuing playing, you need to start keeping detailed records - in a notebook ... time, date, situation - of when your ex finds you snd what happens. Then you need to either get your lawyer to understand all of this or you need to find a new lawyer who ready does. Can you afford that? The biggest question you need to ask yourself, though, is can you afford jail?
| 1 | 2,564 | 2.068966 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqbhkq
|
glpwvtz
| 1,612,274,911 | 1,612,265,923 | 60 | 19 |
Discord is social media that is widely used in the gaming community. Your ex specifically joined a group within this to taunt you and try and get you to violate the RO. Try the above language with your lawyer. Maybe that will help them understand.
|
1st: can you prove it's her? I know that sounds dumb but I have to ask 2nd: can you prove she's specifically following you around, or is it coincidence that she always ends up in the same FC as you? she could've had a fight and left, joined you and 'oh hey, I didn't know you were here'. the actual advice no, you don't need to stop playing the game. you need all the evidence you can get that she followed you there, whilst doing what you can to avoid talking to her. a restraining order goes two ways, she can't just willfully walk over to you then cry harassment because you're next to her, you have to go over to her. Change the way you're wording this to your lawyer and see if he gets it a different way: I'd advice telling him about this from the point of view that it's a club you've been going to and she follows you in. You leave due to the RO and find another one, she follows you in. if you can get something like OBS to record your friends screen when she's in a call, then get her to confirm it's her. compare the logs in the Free Companies as to when you joined then when she joined. I'm not saying leave the FCs she joins, but avoid talking to her. set up multiple voice chats and move should she join you, and keep track of it. if she follows you around, then you can prove she's following you. you MAY be able to get this back in court earlier if you talk to your lawyer and get this out thrown out. good luck
| 1 | 8,988 | 3.157895 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glphovt
|
glqbhkq
| 1,612,252,531 | 1,612,274,911 | 15 | 60 |
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
|
Discord is social media that is widely used in the gaming community. Your ex specifically joined a group within this to taunt you and try and get you to violate the RO. Try the above language with your lawyer. Maybe that will help them understand.
| 0 | 22,380 | 4 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqbhkq
|
glpe4sa
| 1,612,274,911 | 1,612,249,651 | 60 | 8 |
Discord is social media that is widely used in the gaming community. Your ex specifically joined a group within this to taunt you and try and get you to violate the RO. Try the above language with your lawyer. Maybe that will help them understand.
|
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
| 1 | 25,260 | 7.5 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqbhkq
|
glq9jzu
| 1,612,274,911 | 1,612,273,957 | 60 | 6 |
Discord is social media that is widely used in the gaming community. Your ex specifically joined a group within this to taunt you and try and get you to violate the RO. Try the above language with your lawyer. Maybe that will help them understand.
|
She cant violate an order that is against you. You could use it to show harassment to get the order against you dropped
| 1 | 954 | 10 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glq96eu
|
glqbhkq
| 1,612,273,767 | 1,612,274,911 | 5 | 60 |
Well. Might be time to try your hand at streaming/video recording. That way you can also record her harassment. There are a lot of screen recording apps and as long as you disclose before recording or in the discord about it that you should be covered. I don’t think the laws have really caught up with today’s internet habits. Discord calls could be considered like phone calls/a type of communication despite her being the one trying to ‘talk’ to you. While just stopping playing the game seems simple I can understand why you don’t what this to ruin your joy of the game/companion ship of guilds.
|
Discord is social media that is widely used in the gaming community. Your ex specifically joined a group within this to taunt you and try and get you to violate the RO. Try the above language with your lawyer. Maybe that will help them understand.
| 0 | 1,144 | 12 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpwvtz
|
glq6h0v
| 1,612,265,923 | 1,612,272,347 | 19 | 29 |
1st: can you prove it's her? I know that sounds dumb but I have to ask 2nd: can you prove she's specifically following you around, or is it coincidence that she always ends up in the same FC as you? she could've had a fight and left, joined you and 'oh hey, I didn't know you were here'. the actual advice no, you don't need to stop playing the game. you need all the evidence you can get that she followed you there, whilst doing what you can to avoid talking to her. a restraining order goes two ways, she can't just willfully walk over to you then cry harassment because you're next to her, you have to go over to her. Change the way you're wording this to your lawyer and see if he gets it a different way: I'd advice telling him about this from the point of view that it's a club you've been going to and she follows you in. You leave due to the RO and find another one, she follows you in. if you can get something like OBS to record your friends screen when she's in a call, then get her to confirm it's her. compare the logs in the Free Companies as to when you joined then when she joined. I'm not saying leave the FCs she joins, but avoid talking to her. set up multiple voice chats and move should she join you, and keep track of it. if she follows you around, then you can prove she's following you. you MAY be able to get this back in court earlier if you talk to your lawyer and get this out thrown out. good luck
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Obligatory Not a lawyer. Dude. Your lawyer is trying to keep you out of *jail.* You understand that, right? This isn’t about what’s right or fair. It’s about you not going to jail. So yes, it is as simple as stop playing the game. I understand friendships, community, people counting on you but you need to think about the real-world consequences if your ex convinces a judge that you’ve violated the RO. If you insist on continuing playing, you need to start keeping detailed records - in a notebook ... time, date, situation - of when your ex finds you snd what happens. Then you need to either get your lawyer to understand all of this or you need to find a new lawyer who ready does. Can you afford that? The biggest question you need to ask yourself, though, is can you afford jail?
| 0 | 6,424 | 1.526316 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glq6h0v
|
glphovt
| 1,612,272,347 | 1,612,252,531 | 29 | 15 |
Obligatory Not a lawyer. Dude. Your lawyer is trying to keep you out of *jail.* You understand that, right? This isn’t about what’s right or fair. It’s about you not going to jail. So yes, it is as simple as stop playing the game. I understand friendships, community, people counting on you but you need to think about the real-world consequences if your ex convinces a judge that you’ve violated the RO. If you insist on continuing playing, you need to start keeping detailed records - in a notebook ... time, date, situation - of when your ex finds you snd what happens. Then you need to either get your lawyer to understand all of this or you need to find a new lawyer who ready does. Can you afford that? The biggest question you need to ask yourself, though, is can you afford jail?
|
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
| 1 | 19,816 | 1.933333 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpe4sa
|
glq6h0v
| 1,612,249,651 | 1,612,272,347 | 8 | 29 |
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
|
Obligatory Not a lawyer. Dude. Your lawyer is trying to keep you out of *jail.* You understand that, right? This isn’t about what’s right or fair. It’s about you not going to jail. So yes, it is as simple as stop playing the game. I understand friendships, community, people counting on you but you need to think about the real-world consequences if your ex convinces a judge that you’ve violated the RO. If you insist on continuing playing, you need to start keeping detailed records - in a notebook ... time, date, situation - of when your ex finds you snd what happens. Then you need to either get your lawyer to understand all of this or you need to find a new lawyer who ready does. Can you afford that? The biggest question you need to ask yourself, though, is can you afford jail?
| 0 | 22,696 | 3.625 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpwvtz
|
glqkz5g
| 1,612,265,923 | 1,612,278,672 | 19 | 25 |
1st: can you prove it's her? I know that sounds dumb but I have to ask 2nd: can you prove she's specifically following you around, or is it coincidence that she always ends up in the same FC as you? she could've had a fight and left, joined you and 'oh hey, I didn't know you were here'. the actual advice no, you don't need to stop playing the game. you need all the evidence you can get that she followed you there, whilst doing what you can to avoid talking to her. a restraining order goes two ways, she can't just willfully walk over to you then cry harassment because you're next to her, you have to go over to her. Change the way you're wording this to your lawyer and see if he gets it a different way: I'd advice telling him about this from the point of view that it's a club you've been going to and she follows you in. You leave due to the RO and find another one, she follows you in. if you can get something like OBS to record your friends screen when she's in a call, then get her to confirm it's her. compare the logs in the Free Companies as to when you joined then when she joined. I'm not saying leave the FCs she joins, but avoid talking to her. set up multiple voice chats and move should she join you, and keep track of it. if she follows you around, then you can prove she's following you. you MAY be able to get this back in court earlier if you talk to your lawyer and get this out thrown out. good luck
|
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
| 0 | 12,749 | 1.315789 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glphovt
|
glqkz5g
| 1,612,252,531 | 1,612,278,672 | 15 | 25 |
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
|
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
| 0 | 26,141 | 1.666667 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqi0kz
|
glqkz5g
| 1,612,277,593 | 1,612,278,672 | 11 | 25 |
make a report to the Game staff and explain the situation, tell them you are being harassed.
|
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
| 0 | 1,079 | 2.272727 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqkz5g
|
glqklh9
| 1,612,278,672 | 1,612,278,528 | 25 | 11 |
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
|
The lawyer may not understand, but their advice is sound. If a judge believes that you are harassing her, you will be slapped with charges; your lawyer is telling you to play it safe, because some judges tend to be morons. A few key things here are what does the order actually say? Usually these orders tend to also limit the person who got the order from contact with the person they got it against, to prevent this kind of thing happening in the first places. If it doesn’t have anything like that, which is possible. Then you should be gathering evidence, screenshots of discord, I mean those logs stay up there, so there’s no reason. Take every screenshot you can, you can sort through what’s relevant with your lawyer later. Speak to the GM of each guild. Any which understand and will outright ban her from the guild, stay in and make sure they ban her, the order is against you, the guild can ban her for any reason they damn well want. Any that won’t do anything, leave that guild. If you do receive contact, do not respond. Speak to your lawyer. Your lawyer can contact her/her lawyer and demand she stop contacting you. In my experience, if her lawyer gets a call from your lawyer, and after finally understanding (the screenshots will help more than your description) explains what is going on, her lawyer will probably tell her to cut it out from there. Your RO isn’t against your lawyer either, they can quite easily send a cure or quit notice or whatever they have in Texas.
| 1 | 144 | 2.272727 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpe4sa
|
glqkz5g
| 1,612,249,651 | 1,612,278,672 | 8 | 25 |
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
|
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
| 0 | 29,021 | 3.125 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqjbfp
|
glqkz5g
| 1,612,278,056 | 1,612,278,672 | 10 | 25 |
Maybe your lawyer and eventually a judge will understand if you analogize to a gym or country club. You've now joined 5 different country clubs/gyms to play golf and tennis and swim and lift weights, and she keeps joining the same ones to follow you around (and keeps showing up at the same time), and she obviously hopes you'll violate the RO by getting to close to her or speaking to her. One of them is bound to understand that model, and you can just say that FF and discord are just online versions of these IRL clubs but for different sports. You've tried to avoid her by quitting your current club and joining a new one, but she just follows you around town joining your new one. These clubs are open to the public, so you can't forbid her from harassing you this way and would like the court to help you follow the RO once they understand.
|
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
| 0 | 616 | 2.5 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqkz5g
|
glq9jzu
| 1,612,278,672 | 1,612,273,957 | 25 | 6 |
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
|
She cant violate an order that is against you. You could use it to show harassment to get the order against you dropped
| 1 | 4,715 | 4.166667 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqkz5g
|
glq96eu
| 1,612,278,672 | 1,612,273,767 | 25 | 5 |
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
|
Well. Might be time to try your hand at streaming/video recording. That way you can also record her harassment. There are a lot of screen recording apps and as long as you disclose before recording or in the discord about it that you should be covered. I don’t think the laws have really caught up with today’s internet habits. Discord calls could be considered like phone calls/a type of communication despite her being the one trying to ‘talk’ to you. While just stopping playing the game seems simple I can understand why you don’t what this to ruin your joy of the game/companion ship of guilds.
| 1 | 4,905 | 5 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqkz5g
|
glqfxx2
| 1,612,278,672 | 1,612,276,855 | 25 | 5 |
He doesn’t understand. Explain it like he’s 5. Tell him your basically going to another golf course and actually built your own course. Only for her to show up and brag that you’d have to leave it. Might make sense that way.
|
Find a better lawyer who is more technologically savvy. There should be actual answers to this.
| 1 | 1,817 | 5 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpwvtz
|
glqn766
| 1,612,265,923 | 1,612,279,497 | 19 | 23 |
1st: can you prove it's her? I know that sounds dumb but I have to ask 2nd: can you prove she's specifically following you around, or is it coincidence that she always ends up in the same FC as you? she could've had a fight and left, joined you and 'oh hey, I didn't know you were here'. the actual advice no, you don't need to stop playing the game. you need all the evidence you can get that she followed you there, whilst doing what you can to avoid talking to her. a restraining order goes two ways, she can't just willfully walk over to you then cry harassment because you're next to her, you have to go over to her. Change the way you're wording this to your lawyer and see if he gets it a different way: I'd advice telling him about this from the point of view that it's a club you've been going to and she follows you in. You leave due to the RO and find another one, she follows you in. if you can get something like OBS to record your friends screen when she's in a call, then get her to confirm it's her. compare the logs in the Free Companies as to when you joined then when she joined. I'm not saying leave the FCs she joins, but avoid talking to her. set up multiple voice chats and move should she join you, and keep track of it. if she follows you around, then you can prove she's following you. you MAY be able to get this back in court earlier if you talk to your lawyer and get this out thrown out. good luck
|
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
| 0 | 13,574 | 1.210526 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glphovt
|
glqn766
| 1,612,252,531 | 1,612,279,497 | 15 | 23 |
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
|
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
| 0 | 26,966 | 1.533333 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqmvdo
|
glqn766
| 1,612,279,374 | 1,612,279,497 | 14 | 23 |
Reading on a old arrest that was done on world of Warcraft, you could also open a ticket in to the FF Devs asking for chat logs regarding her interactions, as I assume she is the first one to talk to you. Same can be requested with a activity log on joining/leaving guilds and it would be visable that you have joined first and she immediately follows. Only issue is you need to proof her character is her character. And as easy for another gamer that is, people that are generally in law are not the type to play these kinds of games or understand how they work.
|
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
| 0 | 123 | 1.642857 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqn766
|
glqi0kz
| 1,612,279,497 | 1,612,277,593 | 23 | 11 |
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
|
make a report to the Game staff and explain the situation, tell them you are being harassed.
| 1 | 1,904 | 2.090909 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqklh9
|
glqn766
| 1,612,278,528 | 1,612,279,497 | 11 | 23 |
The lawyer may not understand, but their advice is sound. If a judge believes that you are harassing her, you will be slapped with charges; your lawyer is telling you to play it safe, because some judges tend to be morons. A few key things here are what does the order actually say? Usually these orders tend to also limit the person who got the order from contact with the person they got it against, to prevent this kind of thing happening in the first places. If it doesn’t have anything like that, which is possible. Then you should be gathering evidence, screenshots of discord, I mean those logs stay up there, so there’s no reason. Take every screenshot you can, you can sort through what’s relevant with your lawyer later. Speak to the GM of each guild. Any which understand and will outright ban her from the guild, stay in and make sure they ban her, the order is against you, the guild can ban her for any reason they damn well want. Any that won’t do anything, leave that guild. If you do receive contact, do not respond. Speak to your lawyer. Your lawyer can contact her/her lawyer and demand she stop contacting you. In my experience, if her lawyer gets a call from your lawyer, and after finally understanding (the screenshots will help more than your description) explains what is going on, her lawyer will probably tell her to cut it out from there. Your RO isn’t against your lawyer either, they can quite easily send a cure or quit notice or whatever they have in Texas.
|
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
| 0 | 969 | 2.090909 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpe4sa
|
glqn766
| 1,612,249,651 | 1,612,279,497 | 8 | 23 |
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
|
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
| 0 | 29,846 | 2.875 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqjbfp
|
glqn766
| 1,612,278,056 | 1,612,279,497 | 10 | 23 |
Maybe your lawyer and eventually a judge will understand if you analogize to a gym or country club. You've now joined 5 different country clubs/gyms to play golf and tennis and swim and lift weights, and she keeps joining the same ones to follow you around (and keeps showing up at the same time), and she obviously hopes you'll violate the RO by getting to close to her or speaking to her. One of them is bound to understand that model, and you can just say that FF and discord are just online versions of these IRL clubs but for different sports. You've tried to avoid her by quitting your current club and joining a new one, but she just follows you around town joining your new one. These clubs are open to the public, so you can't forbid her from harassing you this way and would like the court to help you follow the RO once they understand.
|
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
| 0 | 1,441 | 2.3 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glq9jzu
|
glqn766
| 1,612,273,957 | 1,612,279,497 | 6 | 23 |
She cant violate an order that is against you. You could use it to show harassment to get the order against you dropped
|
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
| 0 | 5,540 | 3.833333 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glq96eu
|
glqn766
| 1,612,273,767 | 1,612,279,497 | 5 | 23 |
Well. Might be time to try your hand at streaming/video recording. That way you can also record her harassment. There are a lot of screen recording apps and as long as you disclose before recording or in the discord about it that you should be covered. I don’t think the laws have really caught up with today’s internet habits. Discord calls could be considered like phone calls/a type of communication despite her being the one trying to ‘talk’ to you. While just stopping playing the game seems simple I can understand why you don’t what this to ruin your joy of the game/companion ship of guilds.
|
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
| 0 | 5,730 | 4.6 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqn766
|
glqfxx2
| 1,612,279,497 | 1,612,276,855 | 23 | 5 |
Try using the blacklist function within the game to block her from contacting you, I would also reach out to the GM's. I know she hasn't necessarily broken SE ToS but it would be worth letting them know to see if there is anything they can do cause she's definitely harassing you. Especially with it being a special circumstance. Worst they tell you is that there is nothing they can do. As far as discord goes, make sure the only people with access to send an invite link are people you know, like irl know that know the situation. If someone in the FC wants to add someone go through a bit of a screening process and be up front about what is going on with the FC. You have a friend on Zalera rooting for this to get better for you!
|
Find a better lawyer who is more technologically savvy. There should be actual answers to this.
| 1 | 2,642 | 4.6 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpwvtz
|
glphovt
| 1,612,265,923 | 1,612,252,531 | 19 | 15 |
1st: can you prove it's her? I know that sounds dumb but I have to ask 2nd: can you prove she's specifically following you around, or is it coincidence that she always ends up in the same FC as you? she could've had a fight and left, joined you and 'oh hey, I didn't know you were here'. the actual advice no, you don't need to stop playing the game. you need all the evidence you can get that she followed you there, whilst doing what you can to avoid talking to her. a restraining order goes two ways, she can't just willfully walk over to you then cry harassment because you're next to her, you have to go over to her. Change the way you're wording this to your lawyer and see if he gets it a different way: I'd advice telling him about this from the point of view that it's a club you've been going to and she follows you in. You leave due to the RO and find another one, she follows you in. if you can get something like OBS to record your friends screen when she's in a call, then get her to confirm it's her. compare the logs in the Free Companies as to when you joined then when she joined. I'm not saying leave the FCs she joins, but avoid talking to her. set up multiple voice chats and move should she join you, and keep track of it. if she follows you around, then you can prove she's following you. you MAY be able to get this back in court earlier if you talk to your lawyer and get this out thrown out. good luck
|
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
| 1 | 13,392 | 1.266667 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpwvtz
|
glpe4sa
| 1,612,265,923 | 1,612,249,651 | 19 | 8 |
1st: can you prove it's her? I know that sounds dumb but I have to ask 2nd: can you prove she's specifically following you around, or is it coincidence that she always ends up in the same FC as you? she could've had a fight and left, joined you and 'oh hey, I didn't know you were here'. the actual advice no, you don't need to stop playing the game. you need all the evidence you can get that she followed you there, whilst doing what you can to avoid talking to her. a restraining order goes two ways, she can't just willfully walk over to you then cry harassment because you're next to her, you have to go over to her. Change the way you're wording this to your lawyer and see if he gets it a different way: I'd advice telling him about this from the point of view that it's a club you've been going to and she follows you in. You leave due to the RO and find another one, she follows you in. if you can get something like OBS to record your friends screen when she's in a call, then get her to confirm it's her. compare the logs in the Free Companies as to when you joined then when she joined. I'm not saying leave the FCs she joins, but avoid talking to her. set up multiple voice chats and move should she join you, and keep track of it. if she follows you around, then you can prove she's following you. you MAY be able to get this back in court earlier if you talk to your lawyer and get this out thrown out. good luck
|
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
| 1 | 16,272 | 2.375 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glpe4sa
|
glphovt
| 1,612,249,651 | 1,612,252,531 | 8 | 15 |
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
|
Can you set your guild & discord to require approval before joining? If yore abke to flat out prevent her from joining then you will be at less risk, and if she asks to join then you have evidence she is trying to contact you
| 0 | 2,880 | 1.875 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqi0kz
|
glqmvdo
| 1,612,277,593 | 1,612,279,374 | 11 | 14 |
make a report to the Game staff and explain the situation, tell them you are being harassed.
|
Reading on a old arrest that was done on world of Warcraft, you could also open a ticket in to the FF Devs asking for chat logs regarding her interactions, as I assume she is the first one to talk to you. Same can be requested with a activity log on joining/leaving guilds and it would be visable that you have joined first and she immediately follows. Only issue is you need to proof her character is her character. And as easy for another gamer that is, people that are generally in law are not the type to play these kinds of games or understand how they work.
| 0 | 1,781 | 1.272727 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqklh9
|
glqmvdo
| 1,612,278,528 | 1,612,279,374 | 11 | 14 |
The lawyer may not understand, but their advice is sound. If a judge believes that you are harassing her, you will be slapped with charges; your lawyer is telling you to play it safe, because some judges tend to be morons. A few key things here are what does the order actually say? Usually these orders tend to also limit the person who got the order from contact with the person they got it against, to prevent this kind of thing happening in the first places. If it doesn’t have anything like that, which is possible. Then you should be gathering evidence, screenshots of discord, I mean those logs stay up there, so there’s no reason. Take every screenshot you can, you can sort through what’s relevant with your lawyer later. Speak to the GM of each guild. Any which understand and will outright ban her from the guild, stay in and make sure they ban her, the order is against you, the guild can ban her for any reason they damn well want. Any that won’t do anything, leave that guild. If you do receive contact, do not respond. Speak to your lawyer. Your lawyer can contact her/her lawyer and demand she stop contacting you. In my experience, if her lawyer gets a call from your lawyer, and after finally understanding (the screenshots will help more than your description) explains what is going on, her lawyer will probably tell her to cut it out from there. Your RO isn’t against your lawyer either, they can quite easily send a cure or quit notice or whatever they have in Texas.
|
Reading on a old arrest that was done on world of Warcraft, you could also open a ticket in to the FF Devs asking for chat logs regarding her interactions, as I assume she is the first one to talk to you. Same can be requested with a activity log on joining/leaving guilds and it would be visable that you have joined first and she immediately follows. Only issue is you need to proof her character is her character. And as easy for another gamer that is, people that are generally in law are not the type to play these kinds of games or understand how they work.
| 0 | 846 | 1.272727 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqmvdo
|
glpe4sa
| 1,612,279,374 | 1,612,249,651 | 14 | 8 |
Reading on a old arrest that was done on world of Warcraft, you could also open a ticket in to the FF Devs asking for chat logs regarding her interactions, as I assume she is the first one to talk to you. Same can be requested with a activity log on joining/leaving guilds and it would be visable that you have joined first and she immediately follows. Only issue is you need to proof her character is her character. And as easy for another gamer that is, people that are generally in law are not the type to play these kinds of games or understand how they work.
|
Your best bet going forward is to start making a trail of your efforts to avoid her. Like perhaps receipts for the fact you changed names and data servers, I believe both are paid services? As well as that you lead the current guild/free company and/or Discord. Additionally (it might seem excessive) put it in part of the rules she is not welcome in the Discord, I know some have it set up to require acknowledging rules to join. Just to fully outline how she's going out of her way to contact you if it needs to be heard on. If you want to be especially cautious. As others have suggested, I think it would be wise to have a more tech savvy attorney if possible. Just in-case this does come up in court, it will be easier to lay out. It sounds to me as though you are doing plenty due diligence to avoid her. But the internet can be a bit murky sometime in regards to the law.
| 1 | 29,723 | 1.75 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
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glqmvdo
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glqjbfp
| 1,612,279,374 | 1,612,278,056 | 14 | 10 |
Reading on a old arrest that was done on world of Warcraft, you could also open a ticket in to the FF Devs asking for chat logs regarding her interactions, as I assume she is the first one to talk to you. Same can be requested with a activity log on joining/leaving guilds and it would be visable that you have joined first and she immediately follows. Only issue is you need to proof her character is her character. And as easy for another gamer that is, people that are generally in law are not the type to play these kinds of games or understand how they work.
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Maybe your lawyer and eventually a judge will understand if you analogize to a gym or country club. You've now joined 5 different country clubs/gyms to play golf and tennis and swim and lift weights, and she keeps joining the same ones to follow you around (and keeps showing up at the same time), and she obviously hopes you'll violate the RO by getting to close to her or speaking to her. One of them is bound to understand that model, and you can just say that FF and discord are just online versions of these IRL clubs but for different sports. You've tried to avoid her by quitting your current club and joining a new one, but she just follows you around town joining your new one. These clubs are open to the public, so you can't forbid her from harassing you this way and would like the court to help you follow the RO once they understand.
| 1 | 1,318 | 1.4 |
lalvto
|
legaladvice_train
| 0.97 |
Ex Wife has joined 3 online guilds in Final Fantasy while she has a RO against me. Do online interactions in a video game count as a restraining order violation if I do not respond? I got divorced a year ago. During the divorce proceedings my wife got a restraining order against me. Was based off of lies and wont go into specifics other than my lawyer says it has no chance of being renewed past the 2 year cut off. In the meantime my ex wife is trying to force me to violate the order by joining the same guilds I join in Final Fantasy. The first month after the order went into effect, I left the free company, or guild, on advice of my lawyer as we both used voice chat quite heavily. I joined a new group and she followed very soon after. I was talking to random people in discord and she joined saying I better leave or I will violate the restraining order. Since I had been there for a week, I just left. I change my character name and left the data center so our characters could never interact. I form my own group with some friends who came with me and we grow to be kinda big, talking 250ish members with 20-30 online in discord at a time. Im in discord one day and she joins me and my two RL freinds chat. "Oh guess you need a new guild." First thing she says. My friend says some things which I will not repeat here and says its his discord and bans her. I boot her from the guild and close recruitment so she cant get back in. I call my lawyer and... well he doesn't really understand any of that and suggested I just stop playing Final Fantasy. Thats not gonna happen. I asked him about the harassment from her and he said this would be very hard to prove unless we had it recorded. Which we do not have any recordings of these interactions. All we have is a character name in Final Fantasy and the word of my best friend since 5th grade. My lawyer says I just need to stop playing Final Fantasy and to not try and trap her into getting on voice as that will be proof of me violating the order. He doesn't fully understand what discord is but says that if I knowingly converse with her through it I definitely violate the order. All of my friends are on the look out for her as she has followed me to 3 FCs in ffxiv now and the 3rd is one I am the leader of. I don't plan to quit but I want to make sure I am covered. We also implemented a minimum level rule to be in the FC. So she cant just make a new character and join right away. She would have to level up to at least 75 first. First question. If she follows my character around and stays just shy of violating SE TOS, meaning I cant just call a GM on her, would that violate the restraining order? Second. If she rejoins on another account in discord and I unknowningly talk to others while she is in there, does this violate the order? My lawyer had no clue what discord is and answered this question with "Just make sure not to call her on the phone." The 2 year mark for the RO is in September. My lawyer has said if it gets extended, he wold be flabbergasted as it would be highly irregular. This is in Texas.
|
glqmvdo
|
glq9jzu
| 1,612,279,374 | 1,612,273,957 | 14 | 6 |
Reading on a old arrest that was done on world of Warcraft, you could also open a ticket in to the FF Devs asking for chat logs regarding her interactions, as I assume she is the first one to talk to you. Same can be requested with a activity log on joining/leaving guilds and it would be visable that you have joined first and she immediately follows. Only issue is you need to proof her character is her character. And as easy for another gamer that is, people that are generally in law are not the type to play these kinds of games or understand how they work.
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She cant violate an order that is against you. You could use it to show harassment to get the order against you dropped
| 1 | 5,417 | 2.333333 |
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